Last night I unfortunately misunderstood the hon. member for Parow, and in all fairness now I want to furnish him with the reply he was seeking. The hon. member said that our navigational aids should keep pace with marine requirements. As has already been mentioned by the hon. member for Middelburg, the Government has decided to install a Decca system along our entire coast and that, together with existing aids, should furnish adequate navigational assistance to all vehicles which are equipped with the necessary apparatus.

The hon. member also said that the Department of Transport should station its own helicopters at strategic places along the coast to do rescue work. In the first place the Department does not have its own helicopters, and in the second place it would be too expensive. The coastline is almost 2,070 miles long, and if we were to keep helicopters within reachable distance it would cost millions of rands. In the last place the hon. member asked a question in regard to the search and rescue services. The hon. member knows that the Department of Transport is the coordinating department which controls search and rescue in South Africa. The Department of Defence, Railways and Police also play their part and experience has taught us that they take extremely effective steps in this regard.

The hon. member for Mossel Bay pointed out that the existing airports in the southern Cape are inadequate and unsatisfactory and asked the Government to consider building a state airport in that area. For the information of the hon. member I just want to say that the Government has already decided to build a state airport there, which will in fact be situated between Mossel Bay and George, as the hon. member requested.

The hon. member for Durban (Central) made a few interesting proposals in regard to road safety, inter alia, in regard to police uniforms, bumpers and lights on trucks, chronic illnesses and signs which are not removed by road work teams. As the hon. member is probably aware the control over our road traffic and the control over our road traffic police are functions which fall under the provincial administrations, but I shall nevertheless refer these suggestions which he made to the S.A. Road Safety Council for the necessary attention, and they in turn can bring it to the attention of the provincial authorities in question.

The hon. member for Bloemfontein (District) requested that the principle of pegging third-party claims, as in the case of claims in terms of the Workmen’s Compensation Act should be considered. For the information of the hon. member, I must point out to him that the matter has already been examined thoroughly on a previous occasion and has been thrashed out by the Du Plessis Commission and they have decided not to support this recommendation. The hon. member also referred to a report which appeared in Die Vaderland. I saw that report for the first time yesterday. The report was not officially issued by the Department of Transport. The report is correct in this respect that it is a matter which is at the moment, in regard to the future planning of our national roads receiving serious attention from the Minister as well as myself and the Department. If we think of the future planning of our national roads we must first ask ourselves what the most important task of the Central Government must be in regard to our road-building system in South Africa. I think, and I do not believe I am wrong in my view, that the obvious task and function of the Central Government is to supply roads of a high standard which are of national importance—and I emphasize this, which are of national importance, to the Republic as a whole. After all, it is the task of the provincial administrations to build roads in their provinces which are of provincial importance, and it is the function of municipal authorities to built roads or streets in that town which are of municipal importance, while divisional councils here in the Cape must render those services in their respective districts. Obviously the demarcated area of Central Government activity in regard to road-building ought to be the provision of roads on a national basis which from the nature of the case may be regarded as being of national importance. You would be quite right in asking whether that is not the direction in which we have consistently been moving with our national roads system. As far back as 1935 the Government accepted a national roads policy, in terms of which the financing of roads of national importance would be undertaken by the Central Government, but gradually over the years we have gone off the track and departed from this original aim. What are we really doing to-day? It is true that the National Transport Commission undertook as its task a few years ago the development of the South African national roads system into a full-fledged through-road system, which in itself was a tremendous task. But it is not the only load the National Transport Commission placed on its own shoulders. The Commission also assists the provinces with the financing of the building of special roads which are exclusively roads of provincial importance. Furthermore the Commission is subsidizing urban through-road schemes which are of urban importance. In addition to this already heavy burden, for which neither the necessary funds nor the necessary manpower is available, the National Transport Commission is also being faced with another problem, i.e. the rebuilding of the old national roads system. The old national roads have become so obsolete and dangerous that rebuilding of the system has become essential.

Hon. members must remember that the bulk of the present national roads system was built more than 20 years ago or even longer, and that the technical requirements then were very undemanding. In addition it must also be remembered that these roads were, in the greatest percentage of cases, old provincial roads of a former century which had been improved at the cost of the Central Government. The existing national roads system is so obsolete that it can only be converted into modern-day highways on a very uneconomic basis. That is why it has become essential to make financial provision for the rebuilding of this old national roads system. It has therefore become necessary to reconsider the entire future planning of our national roads system and to devote serious consideration to that matter. It seems to me the National Transport Commission has, with the financial aid which it has granted for the building of too many roads, bitten off far more than it can chew. Obviously we are therefore helping to build far too many less important roads and we are taking retrogressive steps in regard to the building of the most important roads, the roads which are really of true national importance, the roads which are in fact the function of the Central Government to build. We shall have to consider the matter and simply adopt the attitude that those things which weigh heavily should count the most. We shall have to accelerate the building of our national through-road system considerably. As I have already said, the National Transport Commission has undertaken the tremendous task of expanding our country’s national roads system into a full-fledged through-road system on which high-speed traffic may, with the greatest degree of safety, be carried over the long distance between our larger coastal cities and the important centres in the interior.

Since 1961 155 miles of national double highway through-roads and 150 miles of national single-lane through-roads have been built. At this rate it will take years and years to meet the present requirements and the present need existing for these roads. Our total requirements at the present moment are 1,046 miles of double-highway through-roads and 1,828 miles of single-lane through-roads. Through-roads are throughout the world becoming the most important transport arteries of the modern state. If South Africa wants to keep pace with this development then we shall have to see to it that this urgent and essential transport requirement of our country is not impeded in any way. As far as the future planning of our national roads system is concerned, we must also think realistically of the restrictive factors to which our national road systems in South Africa are subject.

I am thinking here firstly of the limited funds which are available; secondly of the shortage of technical and engineering manpower; and thirdly of the divided control over our roads. We do not have unlimited funds available for our national road-building system. The revenue of the National Road Fund for 1966-’67 is estimated at approximately R45 million; for 1967-’68 at R47.8 million and for the year 1968-’69 it is estimated at R50.8 million. If we take into consideration the fact that we are already contributing an annual sum of R7 million to the financing and the building of provincial roads, R5 million for urban through-roads, and that if we calculate for the future that probably at least R8 million per year will be necessary for the rebuilding of the present national roads system, then we realize in what difficulties we are going to find ourselves. National road building is an extremely expensive service which has to be supplied. National through-roads in their final form cost approximately R4,000 per mile. It must also be borne in mind that we cannot simply make unrestricted funds available for road building. The funds at our disposal for the building of our national roads are limited. In the past six years approximately 50 miles of through-roads have been built, and under the circumstances I find it difficult to see, taking into consideration all these obligations which the National Transport Commission has burdened itself with, how we are in future going to build many more than 50 miles of through-roads. On the contrary I believe that the position is steadily going to become more difficult and that we will find it possible to build far less than 50 miles of through-roads on an average per year.

Furthermore, we must also remember that as is the case in other fields we are also faced with a shortage of manpower, a shortage of technical and engineering manpower, staff which is essential for the planning and the construction of the roads, and in the third place, that our road building in South Africa is subject to the further restrictive factor which I have already mentioned, i.e. the divided control which exists in respect of planning, construction, and financing of national roads. The actual building of roads may, according to our Constitution, only be undertaken by the provincial administrations or by agents on their behalf. The national roads in South Africa are thus financed by the Central Government and planned in conjunction with the provincial administrations, while the actual construction work is in the hands of the provincial administrations.

Mr. Chairman, that this is a time-consuming process, that much precious time is lost as a result, is undoubtedly true. In addition I believe that it can also lead to wastage of money. As far as the future planning of our national roads is concerned, we have now put our problem to the Committee. This will convince hon. members that the Government is only too well aware of the essential need to establish modern channels of communication to fulfil the requirements of inter-provincial or long distance traffic and the provision of safe, fast, modern and economic traffic facilities which are of urgent national importance. This matter is at present receiving the serious attention of the Department of Transport, of the Minister and of myself. I have already in this connection obtained the well-considered opinion of the National Transport Commission and I will as soon as possible also request the various provincial administrations to express their opinion in regard to this matter. However I am determined that a solution must be found and that every attempt must be made to enable the Central Government to give its undivided attention in respect of road building to the task which in my opinion is its only and alloted function, i.e. the building of a full-fledged through-road system for the Republic, roads which are really of national importance.

The hon. member for Port Natal proposed that the name of the registered owner of the vehicle appear on the third party insurance token. I shall refer his proposal to the Advisory Committee for consideration. The hon. member also referred to the desirability of more publicity being given to the legal requirements that an accident must be reported within 14 days. A great deal of publicity has already been given to the matter but I shall instruct the Department and the consortium to give even more attention to the matter.

The hon. member also referred to the unsatisfactory quality of some agents issuing third party assurance. This matter has already received attention from the Department, and the entire agency system is now being revised. It has been decided, in the first place, that only agents who have at their disposal proper offices where the public can be served during normal office hours, may be appointed, and in the second place, not to limit the number of agents. On the contrary, the idea is to have the agents distributed in such a way that it will not be necessary for the public to travel miles to get to an agent. The very satisfactory way in which the 1966 renewals took place, is a testimonial to the good organization which has been built up by means of agents, and the process will probably be equally successful during April, 1967, if not more so. I want to give the hon. member for Port Natal the assurance that strict control is being exercised over agencies and that no irregularities have been experienced in the past. I want to put it very clearly to the hon. member that it is solely the function of agents to provide the public with third party insurance. The agents do not deal with claims. Claims are dealt with by registered insurance companies themselves and in some cases by branch offices of such companies. The hon. member’s proposals in regard to the problems which are being experienced in obtaining the name of the person insured as well as other information will also be referred for consideration to the Advisory Committee on Motor Vehicle Insurance. The hon. member’s proposal that additional companies be allowed to join the consortium cannot receive consideration at this stage.

Why not?

Because we must first give the whole idea of the consortium a proper chance to function properly and with complete success.

The hon. member for Tygervallei raised the question of the use of Bouvet Island as a meteorological station. I am in complete agreement with the hon. member’s views on the Weather Bureau and the need for a meteorological station on Bouvet Island. This is a matter which is already receiving attention from the Department. However, in view of the dangers involved and the difficult terrain, it is a matter which demands very thorough planning.

The proposal by the hon. member for Pietermaritzburg (City) that the Road Safety Council should itself put traffic officers in uniform on the roads, will clash with its functions, since the board itself cannot apply the Traffic Ordinances. As the hon. member knows they are being applied by the various provincial administrations. The proposal by the hon. member that use should be made of international or private contractors to eliminate railway crossings will, in my opinion, not exactly improve the matter. The work can only progress as rapidly as available funds allow.

Mr. Chairman, I should like to say, in my opening remarks on the Vote this year, that I am sorry the annual report of the Department of Education, Arts and Science for last year has not yet been published. I have had occasion in the past to congratulate the department because of all the departments this department is first in the field in publishing its annual report. If I therefore refer to statistics, it will be a reference to the latest report that is available. Since we discussed education in the last session of Parliament, the sphere of influence of the hon. the Minister has been considerably extended. In the past we have discussed with him university education, vocational education, and education in special schools.

Mr. Chairman, I am sorry but I omitted to ask for the privilege of the half hour.

The hon. member should have asked for it at the beginning of his speech. Is there any objection to the hon. member having the privilege of the half hour? The hon. member may proceed.

The sphere of influence of the hon. the Minister has now been extended to embrace all education in South Africa. I should therefore like to deal to-day with education generally rather than with university education. Before leaving the question of university education there is a matter I should like to mention. We take the tone of all our discussions from the debate on the Prime Minister’s Vote. In the debate on the Prime Minister’s Vote the hon. the Prime Minister referred to our attitude when the university colleges for non-Whites were established. He said we had incited the Coloured people here in the Cape against accepting the establishment of the University College of the Western Cape. He said we had spoken so disparagingly about the establishment of this college that a decent self-respecting Coloured man felt he could not be associated with that college.

That is quite incorrect. It is quite untrue to say that was our attitude. I should like to make our attitude absolutely clear because last year an article appeared by the rector of that college in which he made a similar statement to the effect that we had opposed the establishment of these colleges. I should like to trace the history of that period briefly. The original Bill was introduced in 1957 but it was found to be hybrid. It was therefore withdrawn and a second Bill was introduced. After the Second Reading of that second Bill, it was referred to a Select Committee and the Select Committee eventually became a commission. The Commission brought out a majority report and the minority issued a minority report. Our attitude towards the establishment of these colleges is explained clearly and definitely in that minority report. It shows how time passes when one realizes that there are only two of us in the House to-day who served on that Commission, the hon. the Minister of Community Development and myself. We on this side explained our attitude and we drafted a Bill to explain our attitude and if that Bill had passed through this House, I think we should have had a better Act than we have to-day. That was our attitude at the time.

The Bill of the majority was debated in 1959 and during that debate I had the honour to follow the then Prime Minister, Dr. Verwoerd. He had spoken in the debate, which had extended over about three days. This is what I had to say in my speech following that of the hon. late Prime Minister. I quote from Hansard of 10th April, 1959 (Col. 3518):

That was our attitude and to say that we incited people against accepting these colleges is absolutely untrue. I think it is necessary to say that.

I should like to proceed to another point that was raised in that debate, namely the principle underlying the recent Act by which the hon. the Minister now controls education, namely the National Education Policy Act. It was stated at the time by the hon. the Prime Minister that he regarded as the basic principle of that Act the fact that English-speaking children would be educated in English and Afrikaans-speaking children in Afrikaans. That is not the basic principle of the Act. The basic principle of the Act is contained in section 2, the clause 2 which we debated for several days in Committee and at Second Reading. Under that section the hon. the Minister becomes an autocrat, a dictator. He is given absolute power. There are three subsections in that section. Under the first subsection it is stated that he will be guided by certain principles, and within the framework of certain principles. But no principle in education is laid down, as is laid down to-day in an education ordinance. That is not mentioned. In other words, the hon. the Minister of Education becomes a dictator. The best that hon. members on the other side can say is that he is an enlightened despot. He is a friendly disposed person, but possibly he will not always be the Minister of Education, Arts and Science. He is given that power and under subsection (3) it is not even necessary for him to introduce a Bill into this House to pass a new law in education. He need only publish his opinion in the Gazette by regulation, in terms of subsection (3). Under subsection (2) of that section he is empowered to inflict penalties on people who do not carry out what he says. That is the principle of the Education Act. I think we should have no doubt about it. The hon. the Minister is given these extensive powers and we have to accept them. The country has to accept them. For that reason we opposed the passing of that Bill strenuously. Now we have to act under the provisions of the Act. Under section 4 of that Act an advisory council is created to advise the Minister. Altogether there will be 19 members of this council, five forming an executive and 14 other members. This advisory council now becomes a part of the hon. the Minister’s establishment. At this stage I should like to take a look at the Estimates of Expenditure in regard to his Department. It is a very fine department. There are some excellent professional men in this department. Let me mention some of them. I naturally exclude the Secretary. There are two deputy secretaries, four under-secretaries, one chief education planner, and two education planners. I now come to the National Bureau for Social and Educational Research. There is one director, two deputy directors, six assistant directors, 21 chief research officers, and 28 senior research officers. It is a pretty strong team. I do not know whether there are any more. I have looked at the professional people. Altogether there are 67 highly qualified professional officers. These are not administrative officers, but professional men. Now the hon. the Minister with the inclusion of the National Education Advisory Council, wants to have more advisers. There will be a chairman and four members of the executive. He does not mention the other 14 members because they come from the provinces, and other sources, but they are all nominated by the Minister. I submit that the hon. the Minister does not need an advisory council at all. If he is intending to appoint an advisory council, he should postpone it for at least a year in response to the appeal of the hon. the Minister of Finance that expenses should be reduced. I think they could be reduced there. He can get all the advice he needs from these 67 professional officers. In addition he has a committee of heads, that is to say the four directors or superintendents of education of the provinces, sitting under the chairmanship of his own Secretary. I say it is unnecessary to appoint additional officers. If the hon. the Minister feels it is necessary, I think he should postpone their appointment for at least a year. That is the first thing I wanted to come to.

There is another point I should like to make. The hon. the Minister is of course responsible for white education. As I have said in the past and as we recommended in the minority report of the commission I referred to, we should have liked to have seen all higher education in South Africa for Whites and non-Whites come under one Minister. I am not speaking of primary and secondary education, but of post-matriculation education. We should have liked to have seen that fall under one Minister, and obviously the appropriate Minister would be the hon. the Minister of Education. That is not being done, and we have the difficulty to-day that there are four Ministers handling higher education. The hon. the Minister knows we have established these separate university colleges and that he is responsible chiefly for the universities, but I should like to say that in our minority report we recommended a ten-year interim period, because we said you cannot establish these non-white colleges and provide the facilities you wish to give them in the short period of time available. We said it could not be done. What is the situation to-day? What is the position after eight years? I am now speaking from the latest statistics available. We have more non-white matriculated students in the open universities—the English-language universities, which are really only so-called open universities; they are not open to-day —than in the three Bantu colleges and the college of the Cape taken together. This is the position after eight years, for an obvious reason. The Government is unable to provide the facilities in the non-white colleges. By simply looking at the statistics of the hon. the Minister’s department, one finds those figures in respect of a large number of non white students still at the Cape Town University, the University of the Witwatersrand and Natal University. I think there are only one or two at Rhodes at present. That is the position to-day. When we come to the education of Whites, we can say to-day that almost all the facilities have been provided, excluding perhaps those in respect of technical education We have the facilities for university education. We have the facilities for primary and secondary education throughout South Africa It may be necessary to support what we have done by a system of bursaries, especially for children living in the rural areas, but I think the time has arrived when we can say we now have the facilities for Whites. Our chief concern should now be the non-Whites. If that is the case, I think that in the course of this debate the hon. the Minister should, with his new powers, give us a declaration of policy, of what he intends to do under the new Act and with the new powers that have been conferred upon him.

He has no powers in regard to non-Whites.

I am speaking about his powers in regard to Whites. If I may say so, he has powers over non-Whites, namely those non-Whites that go to the English-language universities, with his permission. They are his students in fact.

No, only the Chinese. That is all. I am only concerned with the Chinese. Other Ministers are concerned with the other non-white students.

Yes, they have a special status. I realize that. The other three Ministers come into it under section 38 of the Separate Universities Act, when they can be one, two, three or four Ministers, or as many combinations of four Ministers as one can work out. I understand that. I am speaking of white education, and especially primary and secondary education. I think the facilities are there to-day. If anyone feels they are not, I should like to know where there is any shortcoming.

Now, if that is the case, I come to the most serious problem in our education. It is not to provide schools for Whites—it is a question of teachers. The subject which we have to discuss, and discuss very seriously, is the question of recruitment of teachers, what we usually call the supply of teachers, their emoluments, their training and, of course, something more important still, their conditions of service. I think it is necessary to discuss that and I should like the Minister to give us a general statement of policy at the end of this debate when he has had time to consider it. I am particularly concerned about the supply of English-speaking teachers in South Africa. It is indeed a very serious matter, in primary schools as well as in secondary schools. I see that all the provinces have now adopted a three-year post-matriculation course of training, or post-secondary school certificate course of training—it comes to the same thing. I think that is an excellent thing. At a conference a year or two ago one enthusiast said that he hoped the day would come when all teachers would have a four-year course of training, or even a five-year course of training. That is all very well, but will that give us the number of teachers we require? It is rather like saying that every man serving in the army should be matriculated. Where are we going to get the troops from then? Our problem in the teaching profession is to recruit teachers. Where are we to get them? When we had a two-year period of training we had great difficulty in obtaining these teachers. Now we are going to have a compulsory three-year course of training, and it will become even more difficult. I should like to know what the Minister has in mind because I understand the four provinces have accepted the three-year course of training.

What is happening in other countries? It is not only in South Africa that we have this problem: We have it in the U.K., in Germany, in America, wherever one goes, and the reason is a very simple one. Fifty years ago there were really only two avenues of employment open to young women: Teaching and nursing. But to-day the person who has had an education in an urban area has so many posts open to him or her that these persons are not so anxious to train as teachers. And they have a very good reason. If a woman is trained as an attorney or as a typiste or a secretary in an office, then when she gets married, she can carry on with her profession if she wishes to, or she can come back to her profession at a later stage. She also receives the same salary as previously. She can come back to her profession—there is no question of saying that she will have a special contract. She comes back into the labour market, the same as she entered it before she was married. That is the position. But when she goes into the teaching profession and then marries she is told, “You are a civil servant and now you must resign”. When they had a two-year course of training the average period of service we had from women teachers was three years. They worked for three years after their post-matriculation course of training. Now that we have a three-year compulsory course, how much service are we going to get from these teachers if we say to them that they cannot teach after their marriage?

I think the Minister should review the whole situation. It is an exceedingly serious one. What is happening in other countries? The situation has become so serious in the U.K. that they are introducing a system of aides, people who are given a few months’ training with teachers and are then used as supplementary teachers in a class under the supervision of a qualified teacher. They had to do that. It seems like a reversion to something like the old pupil-teacher system of training. It is essential because they cannot provide teachers for the children in the schools. In the case of our Bantu education system that is essential. I quite agree with that—we cannot have the same qualifications there. But with our white teachers, what is the answer, what are we going to do about it? I should like to mention what they have been doing in Germany. There they have been asking married women to come back and train as teachers. They have reached a certain stage of life when they might like to come back. They might like to come back and train again. If they have had experience as teachers, or some training, so much the better. Married women who have not taken a teacher’s course but have the academic qualifications can now go back and train to become teachers. It may be a counsel of desperation—I do not know. But they have been driven to that in order to obtain the required numbers.

Well, Sir, what are we to do in South Africa? I would say that the hon. the Minister should now say to the provinces, “Your whole system of employing teachers, especially married women, should be revised at once. It is quite unsatisfactory”. The German system, namely to recruit people who have never been teachers, is possibly not as good as what they have been doing in the U.K., namely persuading teachers to come back after marriage and to teach half-time if necessary. They have two teachers to take a class between them—one in the morning and one in the afternoon. That has been their solution. They have been trying to solve it in that way.

I think I have said enough now about teachers, except to mention this one point. The Minister knows we have a system of exchange of teachers between South Africa and countries overseas. Has he thought of an exchange of teachers between English-medium schools and Afrikaans-medium schools in South Africa? Because, Sir, we are just as far apart from each other as we are from schools in Australia or New Zealand. The English-medium and Afrikaans-medium schools now have something in common but their methods, their language and so on are very often completely apart. I think we should see more of each other’s systems.

Now I am going, as the troops say, to stick my neck out. I want to say a word about the medium of instruction. I think that is always a good topic to make a debate interesting! My appeal to the Minister is this: We should get away from our rigid interpretation of “medium of instruction” and make the system more flexible. I want to regard it now from the point of view of an English-speaking parent, not an Afrikaans-speaking parent. They find to-day that their children go to an English medium school—and I refer here particularly to Johannesburg and the other large cities—and they do quite well in their school work. But they are weak in Afrikaans. They do not speak Afrikaans naturally. They can read it, of course, because it is very easy to learn to read a language. But they never use Afrikaans, they never use it as an instrument in class. What does the Minister think of this? There are many suggestions. What does he think of this one? What about a parent saying, “Well, my son is doing very well, I should like to send him to Heidelberg or Belfast or Potchefstroom for a year, to live in a boarding school there.”

He can do it.

He cannot do it. If he is English-speaking, he has to remain where he is, he is kept in that channel. Why should he not be able to do that? I am asking this question because a parent approached me about it. He said he was very anxious to send his son away to board at a place like Belfast or Middelburg.

To a parallel-medium school?

No, I am not speaking of a parallel-medium school, I am speaking of an Afrikaans-medium high school, Heidelberg, for example. Why cannot he go there? I think it should be possible to do that. It is an exchange. I do not know what the Minister thinks of it. I do not think we should hold up our hands in horror because we say the principle is that a child will remain in an English-medium class all his life, or in an Afrikaans-medium class all his life, and then change at the university. I do not think we are giving a reasonable option. I think we should give the option I suggest. Of course it comes to this, that one does not learn a language only in vacuo, or as a language per se—one learns a language as an instrument. If the child goes to a school where a language is being used as an instrument, where it is necessary to use the language, instead of in an artificial manner,then I think he will learn the language properly. He does not learn the language well to-day. That is my appeal to the hon. the Minister, to make the interpretation of these powers that he has under section 2 much more flexible. I am not pleading that we should adopt the Natal system, although I think the people in Natal are right.

Order! I want to point out to the hon. member that he is criticizing existing legislation and he is not allowed to do so.

No, with respect, Sir, I am not criticizing legislation. What I am saying is that with these great powers the Minister has, I want to assist him in wielding those powers. I do not wish to criticize the fact that he has those powers.

It has been a long time since I last saw an hon. member struggling to such an extent to get through his half hour, the privilege of which he requested too late. I do not want to take more than a few minutes to dispose of the few small points which the hon. member raised and to which it is worthwhile replying. The case he made out was that despotic powers vested in the Minister, but is the hon. member unaware of the fact that the Act very clearly states that the Minister has these powers and may only exercise them after consultation with the Administrators and with the National Advisory Education Council? In other words, he is not able to act like a dictator and do what he was asked to do a few minutes later by the hon. member. The hon. member was then pleading for the Minister to employ despotic powers. He simply had to tell the provinces that their way of appointing women to the teaching profession was wrong and that they were to do it otherwise. Consequently he was pleading for the Minister to have despotic powers. The position is very clear. The Minister is not able to adopt a despotic attitude and order this or that; he is not empowered to do so by the Act. The Minister may, after consultation with the Administrators and with the National Advisory Education Council, take action in the broad national interest but only within the framework of the ten points laid down in the Act. Consequently he does not have that power, and the strangest thing of all is that what the hon. member pleaded for does not fall under those ten things with which the Minister has been entrusted. They do not include the training of teachers. At the time when we were considering the Act the very fact that the training of teachers was not included, was the reason for our pleas. In other words, the crux of the attack launched by the hon. member immediately falls away, because he pleaded that the Minister should have even more powers than those conferred on him by the Act, in that he pleaded that the Minister should have those additional powers in respect of the training of teachers, powers which he does not have at present. The hon. member has really fallen into the trap once more.

But I want to deal with a second point, and that is the question of the medium of instruction, something on which the hon. member touched in passing. The hon. member surely knows that the case he mentioned here is a completely hypothetical one and that at present it is the privilege of the parent to send his child to a country school which is a parallel-medium school, where the children in the Afrikaans and English classes live in the same hostel, where they attend one school with two separate classrooms, where they play on one playground, and where they play in the same rugby team and cricket team, if it is the desire of the parent to do so. But how many English-speaking parents do so? On the contrary, the English-speaking parents of those country towns send their children to true English-medium high schools in the urban areas because they prefer the children to be instructed exclusively through the medium of English.

To this I want to add that in this regard we are concerned with certain powers which the Minister does in fact have and that the Minister has said very clearly that he will exercise those powers with discretion and will not give orders in a despotic fashion left, right and centre. The hon. member said that the Advisory Education Council was no longer required and pleaded for the Council to be abolished for at least one year. Under this new Act the Advisory Education Council has a vital task. Without that Council the Act has no force. On the contrary, the establishment of an advisory education council which serves the Minister with advice on all matters constitutes one of the basic principles on which the Act rests. No, Sir, I feel that the hon. member could have put his half hour to much better use.

During the ten minutes at my disposal I want to raise a few small points, and the first is a personal matter. It is one which has cropped up in debates a number of times. The hon. the Leader of the Opposition used it in the past debate and the hon. member for South Coast also used it in debate some time ago, and the hon. member for Orange Grove has also given it his attention. I am referring to a speech I made in this House in 1958, one in which I dealt with the question of indoctrination in education. I want to rectify the matter because I think it is necessary to do so. I am referring to Hansard, column 2267, of 14th August, 1958. In that debate I said the following—

And here the hon. members stopped reading and immediately said that that was an admission by a man that he had indoctrinated children at school. I shall now continue to read what I said—

I am not in the least apologising for that speech; I am merely asking the Opposition to be honest and fair enough to read the entire speech in its full context and not only, in an attempt to make political capital of the matter, the admission that the children will be Nationalists when they have finished their studies. I repeat that if the history of South Africa is told to the children of South Africa without prejudice, then they will be Nationalists when they have finished their studies, because the history of our country is such that the children may be inspired by it.

In the few minutes remaining I want to take up three or four small points with the hon. the Minister. I do not want to plead for increased expenditure, but I do want to make a plea in regard to the way in which we award bursaries to pupils. We know that the Public Service Commission awards certain bursaries, that it determines in advance in what direction any need exists and that bursaries are then awarded on the basis of 100 in a certain direction and 30 in another direction, etc. Time and again we have the situation that all such bursaries are not taken up with the result that there is money left at the end of the year. Now I want to ask whether the time has not arrived for us to take the top layer, those who have shown that they have the ability to study and to do well, the cream of the crop, at the end of the matric year and for the State to tell those children, “You have no further problems financially; we are going to carry you through your studies”, because here we are concerned with the top-layer, the children who have the ability to become the leaders of South Africa in various spheres in the future. Too often the talents of our girls and boys are wasted as a result of economic problems which arise from the fact that the parents cannot afford to pay for the education of the children.

I just want to mention a second matter. The Act now provides that children have to be placed in different schools according to aptitude. I am pleased that an end has been made to the situation of divided control in our schools and that children will now be placed in schools according to aptitude. I want to request the hon. the Minister and his Department to introduce as soon as possible throughout South Africa aptitude tests for children after Std. V, not only intelligence tests, because intelligence is only one indication and there are many other aspects which have to be taken into account such as the question of preseverence, interest, the question of diligence, etc. I am pleading that aptitude and interest tests should be given for every child and that no child should be placed in a high school before his aptitude and his interests have been tested. Those children may then be placed in different schools in consultation with the parents and the principal. If the child shows a technical aptitude, he may be placed in a technical school; if he shows an academic aptitude, he may be placed in an academic school; if he shows an aptitude for commerce, in a commercial school and if he shows an aptitude for handiwork, in a trade school. Consequently my plea is for the pupil to be placed on the road of vocational education at that stage already.

I want to make a plea in regard to a third matter and that is the question of the training of teachers with which the hon. member for Kensington dealt in such a strange fashion. We all know that no provision is at present made in the Act for the training of teachers, but I want to request very seriously and very urgently that the question of the training of teachers should receive the immediate attention of the Advisory Education Council and that we, if at all possible, should erect the fourth pillar next year so as to place our education on a sound basis. [Time expired.]

To me education is one of the most important things in the world. In other words, the task of the teacher is very important, if not the most important one for our country and for our people. Consequently I want to pay tribute in a few words to-day to education and to the teaching profession.

Mr. Chairman, the doctor looks after the physical condition of the individual, the minister of religion looks after his soul; the farmer sees to his food and clothing, but the teacher is responsible for the individual as an entity. The teacher in fact determines the survival of countries and nations; the teacher stands in the service of mankind and by serving his community and his people he is rendering a brotherly service to his compatriots. The teacher is responsible for the intellectual, moral, ethical and spiritual development of each generation and consequently I do not have any doubt that the teacher of to-day has in his hands the nation of tomorrow; consequently I am grateful that the hon. the Minis ter recently pleaded in a speech for a higher percentage of funds to be appropriated for the teaching profession. Experts all over the world admit that education is playing a very important role in the world at present. I want to quote what Sir Edward F. Dennison said in England. He said that the rising educational level of the labour force, including managerial and technical staff, had been responsible for 23 per cent of the increase in the real national income between the years 1929 and 1957; in contradistinction to this the investment in physical capital had been responsible for an increase of only 15 per cent whereas the overall increase in knowledge had contributed 20 per cent to the national income. Dennison’s investigation also pointed out that a country’s investment in its human capital increased in importance in relation to its progress in the industrial sphere. That was endorsed by Dr. Anton Rupert, who said the following in regard to investment in education (translation)—

The principal of the University of Pretoria, recently said that if he had to choose a theme to follow these two gentlemen in their statements, he would choose the following theme: Investment in education.

Mr. Chairman, I should also like to convey my thanks and appreciation to the hon. the Minister for his recent decision to introduce history as a compulsory subject at school up to matric, and I want to ask the hon. the Minister whether he will not give consideration to the incorporation of civics with the subject history at high school in the future so that children may learn something about the administration of the country and so that they may even learn something about the policies of the different political parties in this country. I believe that the Opposition will support me in this because it is true after all that the political party eventually forms the Government of the country and it is important that scholars, on becoming mature citizens, will know what the policies of every party embrace so that they may vote according to that knowledge.

Then a small book on the policy of the United Party will have to be published each year.

A big economist and an industrial leader in our country said the following in regard to the teacher and the teaching profession (translation)—

Consequently I want to express the hope that, while the hon. the Minister has expressed the view that in future a higher percentage of funds will be made available for education, more funds will also be made available for better working conditions and higher salaries for teachers so that we may attract to an increasing extent the better type of pupil, the more intelligent pupil, to the teaching profession in future, because it is a fact that the youth of to-day who are entrusted to the teacher are the nation of tomorrow.

It is very nice to hear the hon. member who has just sat down attributing to education the degree of importance which he did. It is also interesting to note that now when election time comes the hon. the Minister himself is attributing far greater importance to education in South Africa than he has attributed to it over the past year. In a recent speech in Johannesburg he stated that we were not spending a sufficient proportion of our national income on education. Surely that is something he should have realized years ago. I support the hon. member wholeheartedly; we cannot pay enough attention to the subject of education. South Africa to-day is suffering from the fact that we have not given it enough attention, nor have we devoted a sufficient proportion of our national income to it. Our commerce, our industries and our whole national life, including our teaching profession, are sadly depleted because our people have not been educated up to the standards which are necessary to be able to carry on. Sir, the hon. the Minister must appreciate the fact that if the white man is going to lead in South Africa and maintain that leadership, then he has to take the trouble to see that his children are educated to a standard where they can maintain that leadership and where they can in fact give proper leadership. If we do not learn this lesson or if we just pay lip-service to it, as this hon. Minister seems to have done over the course of the years until there was a by-election in Johannesburg, then, of course, we must be prepared to pay the price and we are paying the price now. As to the question of introducing politics or political science into education at an early age, possibly there is something to be said for the hon. member’s suggestion but I would like to leave that particular aspect to people who are more concerned with education than I am.

I have come into this debate to deal with one particular aspect of education, namely vocational schools and I want to deal with one of these schools in particular. This is the S.A. Navy Academy, General Botha at Granger Bay. Recently we have had to make relaxations regarding conditions relating to the qualifications of naval officers serving in our merchant marine around our coasts and in ships sailing from our ports. We had to make these relaxations because there was not a sufficient number of men available to do the work. The hon. member for Parow pointed out in this House yesterday that our merchant navy was expanding at a fantastic rate—not only our coasting services but also to foreign countries. Well, we are not producing the men to man those ships. Here at Granger Bay we have gone to the trouble, through this hon. Minister’s Department, to build what appears to me to be a fantastic organization for the training of these very people. However, to what extent are we making use of this organization? I should like to have a little information on this from the Minister. From the information I have this training centre for officers who are to man our merchant ships offers accommodation for some 60 trainees. At the present moment, however, it has a complement only of about 28—less than 50 per cent of its capacity, and this at a time when we need these people most. I also understand that the basic qualification for young men to go into this training centre is matriculation. These, therefore, are boys who have reached a matriculation standard, although there might be exemptions. These young men, had they not decided to be trained to man our merchant navy, would possibly now have been earning good salaries and have had good jobs in the world of commerce and industry. Instead of doing that, however, they have responded to the call, a national call, to get themselves trained in order to man South Africa’s merchant navy. But how are they being treated? They are being discouraged in the very place where encouragement is so necessary. In many ways they are being treated more as delinquents than as young gentlemen being trained as officers in our merchant navy. The hon. the Minister frowns, but does he know what leave facilities, for instance, are available to them? Does he know they are allowed only one week-end off in a term during the year which consists of three terms? So these young fellows who of their own will and accord decided to follow the call of the sea, the national call to the sea, are being treated as young chaps who have just gone to boarding school, because all they get is three week-ends leave per year. What encouragement is this to young people to respond to this call we make upon them from time to time? Had they been at university this would not have happened to them. I am talking here of a vocational school and a very highly specialized one at that. Yet this is the sort of thing that happens to them. I know of one young fellow there who is very interested in sport—I sincerely hope all of them are because most South African boys are—but who was refused permission to play rugby for his team on a Saturday afternoon. Is this a vocational training centre to train young men and to encourage young men to respond to the call of the sea to man our ships or is it a kind of institution where these young men are being detained, something akin to a reformatory? I sincerely hope not. So I should like to have the hon. the Minister’s reactions to this. What I have stated are facts to the best of my knowledge and belief. If the hon. the Minister does not have these facts at his disposal he should institute an inquiry into the way in which this training centre is being run and he should do so immediately. He should do that in order to ascertain whether the correct procedures are observed there and whether the conditions existing there are the correct ones; to ascertain whether he has chosen the right principal to command the respect, attention and devotion of the pupils put there to learn this specialized trade, to see whether he is able and capable of conducting the business of this vocational school as he should do. If it is found that he does, then the inquiry should bring to light what other factors are lacking to attract the youth to this calling. Considering the size of our merchant navy a school accommodating 60 should be too small. It should have been much larger. But if on top of this we find that a school planned to accommodate 60 only attracts 28 recruits then we shall have to do something very energetically to attract young men to this training centre or else we must determine whether the fault does not lie within the centre itself. This is where I believe the fault does lie. I should like to learn from the hon. the Minister, therefore, exactly what the position is. I am sure he must have some knowledge of conditions there because I am sure he would not just have allowed this position to go by, a position where an institution planned to accommodate 60 young men could only attract 28, without asking some questions, without wanting some information from those who are responsible for the running of this school. But if the hon. the Minister has not done anything about it yet, I should like him to tell us why not and what he intends doing about it. I also want from him an assurance that whatever he is going to do he will do immediately—not tomorrow or the day after, but now. This is one of the really important issues facing us to-day—the provision of men to man our ships. It is part of the lifeblood of South Africa, to make sure that our ships are operated, that our exports are taken away from our shores and that our imports are brought to us. The responsibility for seeing that that is done rests with this hon. Minister. So, I should like to hear from him exactly what he is doing or intends doing to remedy this dire position in which we find ourselves to-day.

The hon. member for Kensington expressed his concern at the existing shortage of English-speaking teachers. It is a good thing that the hon. member did so, although I regret that he, as the first speaker on Opposition side, did not at the same time make an appeal to English-speaking persons to take up the teaching profession. We know that at present the Afrikaans-speaking teacher is doing this work for the English-speaking person to a large extent—to such an extent that there are Afrikaans-speaking persons who are the principals of English-medium schools. Even in English-medium schools, where English is the medium of instruction, English has to be taught by Afrikaans-speaking teachers.

I now want to supplement what the hon. member for Randfontein said in pursuance of the accusation which had been made against him in connection with the manner in which he taught history when he was a teacher. In this connection I should like to quote from an article written by an English lady a few years ago. She said—

The final paragraph I want to quote, reads as follows—

That is typical of some of the hon. members of the Opposition. They still are bottle-babies of a bygone period of British glory. Those hon. members who made such a fuss in earlier debates this year, did not assist in contributing a thing so as to give education here in South Africa a South African character. That was the work of the Afrikaans-speaking people. [Interjections.] I know that I have hit quite a few of those hon. members very hard by having read out this quotation. [Interjections.] To return to calmer waters I should like to refer to something else in the few minutes remaining. [Interjections.]

Order!

I hope, Sir, that you will let me have extra time for the time I have lost. I want to refer you, Sir, to an article which I read in The Cape Times of 24th January, 1967. The heading was, “New ‘cram’ schools: a warning”. A sub-heading read,“Parents told to scrutinize fees and claims”. The article then continued—

I think a mistake was made here. Instead of “Education Department” is should read “Department of Education, Arts and Science”. Private vocational schools should register with the Department of Education, Arts and Science as private schools and in terms of section 33bis of the Vocational Education Act (Act No. 70 of 1955), the Minister may impose conditions with which such schools have to comply. One of the provisions is that the course for the senior certificate has to cover a period of at least two school years after the junior certificate or Std. VIII certificate has been obtained. Another provision is that no advertisement may be worded in such a way so as to create the impression that a full-time pupil will be able to obtain a national senior certificate in less than two school years after obtaining the national junior or equivalent certificate. Now I want to say immediately that the schools which are registered and which keep to these conditions do not give any trouble. If they do not comply with the provisions and the conditions action may in fact be taken against them. There are schools, however, which do not register and then lay excessive and misplaced claims to successes allegedly achieved by them, and these are the schools in respect of which I should like to issue a warning from this House to-day to parents and to the public. I want to suggest that those advertisements often are misleading. There are advertisements, for example, that scholars can cram a two-year course into one. Those schools then refer to outstanding successes. One of them placed this advertisement in 1965—

From what it has been possible to ascertain, the official results were as follows: Approximately 5 per cent, or even less, of those students obtained a pass. Here is another advertisement—

Then the institution is named,

And in addition they offer—

In addition there are—

[Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, it is always a pleasure to follow the hon. member for Koedoespoort because he always talks some bitter political drivel that really makes my hair stand on end. He made the statement to-day that the English-speaking teachers contributed nothing whatever to the building of South Africa. I think it is an absolutely scandalous statement to make.

I did not say that.

Although those were not the words which were used, that was the implication he made. I believe that we who are English speaking have brought to this country our tradition and our heritage and everything that we have done is part of our contribution to South Africa. We are finding to-day more and more a flat rejection of that contribution being made by hon. members such as the hon. member for Koedoespoort. I want to say that I resent it very bitterly indeed and so do all of my people.

I want to speak specifically this afternoon on the position of teachers in the educational system in South Africa, and particularly those who teach English. The hon. member for Koedoespoort mentioned that the hon. member for Kensington had failed to make an appeal to the English-speaking people to come forward and teach their own language. How many times has that not been done by members on this side of the House? Time and time again.

Once only.

I have done it myself on every possible occasion. When I have to speak at a political meeting I bring home to the English-speaking people their responsibility for maintaining their own language in South Africa. It is absolutely vital that they do so. For the hon. member to say that we do not recognize it, is not true. We recognize it. Of course, it is our responsibility. It is something which concerns us very much indeed. A questionnaire was sent out to teachers of English in Afrikaans schools in the Transvaal. This is a very serious position, as shown by the replies to the questionnaire which were received. Out of a total of 194 teachers of English in high schools, the number of people who speak English all the time in their daily lives was 16. People who speak it commonly: 10. Bilingual people who are equally at home in both languages and speak both at home: 9. People who speak Afrikaans commonly and who teach English at Afrikaans high schools: 104. People who speak English rarely: 49. This is something which is absolutely upsetting. [Interjections.] I do not want the hon. member to interrupt me. I am trying to make a point. If he will wait until I get to the point he might know what I am talking about, that is if he does understand the point when I do get there. I am surprised that the hon. member does not wait. This is a social problem which arises from a factor which I think is very serious indeed, and that is the virtual elimination of the English-speaking people from great areas of the platteland, and that means the farming areas as well as the small towns. This is something that is a social phenomenon and I think it is to be deplored that it has happened in our country. It is something that we cannot turn back.

Why?

It is a social phenomenon. The English-speaking people are concentrated increasingly in the urban areas and it is something which is happening to the Afrikaner people as well. The fact of the matter is that there is no attraction in the smaller rural town for a city-bred English-speaking person, man or woman, to go there to teach the English language. I am referring particularly to an English-speaking person who has a degree in science or mathematics. There are the tremendous attractions in industry for those sort of people.

What do you propose?

If you wait a bit I will tell you. The situation is complicated even more by the sort of nonsense that one reads in the Press. I am referring to what was said by a Mr. D. P. Goosen, director of the Suid-Afrikaanse Akademie vir Wetenskap en Kuns. The significance of what he said is this: His speech was made to a meeting of 2,443 Afrikaans teachers and it was printed in the Onderwysblad which is the organ of the Transvaal Teachers’ Association and the Natal Teachers’ Union. I read from this report—

This is an incredible statement to make. This is something which Mr. Goosen is deploring, that the Afrikaner should be quite at home in London. On what grounds would he not be quite at home? Why should he not be quite at home in London?

Would you be?

Why should he not be? Is it because his civilization is different? Why would that happen? They have their eating and social and living and clothing habits—all these things are deplored. That is the point I am making. He deplores all these things when addressing a meeting of teachers who are going to mould the minds and the future of Afrikanerdom. That is what is important about it. The mind of the future of Afrikanerdom, the children, will be formed by people who make this kind of address. I think it is something which is very serious indeed. [Interjections.] I have not read the original article. [Interjections.]

Order!

It must be hurting hon. members on that side because they are wriggling. According to the report Mr. Goosen appealed to the teachers to stop the integration process and he said this could be done by “inspired” lectures to pupils. I quote—-

All of which is a reference to what comes to our country in the English language from overseas. I believe that is almost a direct attempt to correlate the English language and English traditions in this country of ours with Liberalism, particularly, and, by implication, Humanism and Communism—the words that one finds in the mouth of the hon. member for Randfontein so often. I should like to ask the Minister what his attitude is to this. Because I certainly think that it is not conducive to bringing English-speaking people to the ranks of teachers, to know that this kind of thought is present, that it is voiced at a meeting of over 2,000 Afrikaans teachers, that this is something which is an attempt to form the mind of the Afrikaans-speaking teachers. Surely to goodness part of the learning of a language involves the absorption of something of the culture of that people. Surely the aim of a good English teacher—and I am sure the hon. member for Randfontein will agree with me—is to set himself as an ideal the inculcation in the mind of his Afrikaans-speaking pupil something of the tradition and the background of the English-speaking people? Surely a good teacher teaching a language sets out to teach the atmosphere of thought of that language and to root that in the mind of the pupil? Surely to goodness that is something that we must expect of our teachers, that they will try to do it, that they will go out of their way to do it? I believe that this sort of thing is important.

Both Afrikaans and English?

Yes. As South Africans we are prepared to accept from both sides the thought of the people concerned. I believe that it is absolutely vital and essential; that is why we believe so much that there should be mixing in the schools so that we can have the “cross-pollination of thought”, if one should like to put it that way. Only in that way can we build a genuine South African culture which will give genuine recognition to the contributions made by both sides, by English and Afrikaans. Surely that is what we have got to strive for. I want to say that I pay full honour to the Afrikaans-speaking people for the way in which they supply their own teachers.

HON. MEMBERS: And yours.

Yes, that too. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I

should like to start my speech by referring to what my old friend, the hon. member for Kensington, whom I like very much and for whom I have a high regard, said here when

he referred to the non-white colleges which had been established. I just want to say, however, that had it not been for the opposition we experienced from that side of this House the words “tribal college” would not have existed in our vocabulary at present. The hon. member referred to the dictatorial powers which the hon. the Minister allegedly had. It is common knowledge that this type of allegation is mostly levelled against this hon. Minister by hon. members opposite. The plans suggested by the hon. member for, inter alia, supplementing the shortage of teachers did not make me think that he was dealing with one of the most vital aspects of national life. It is strange that all arguments raised by the hon. member were repetitions of old arguments. After the war which that side had waged against us in regard to the legislation on education, the hon. member once more covered the same battlefield and re-used all the old arguments. He fired another shot at every corpse he discovered and then he came back to the Minister and said, “I want to assist the hon. the Minister to make proper use of the dictatorial powers given to him by this new law”. But he appropriated to himself more powers than we had given to the Minister because he fired, as I have said, another shot into those educational corpses.

As regards the hon. member for Mooi River, what suggestions did the hon. member make for solving the problems mentioned by him? The hon. member complained that too few English-speaking persons were giving their attention to education just as they were giving to little attention to the police, etc. Should they be promised an extra salary notch? Should some inducement be used? Should a threat be issued? What has to be done? Or should it be in the hearts of those people to want to make their contribution to the education of the nation?

If we look at the Estimates, we notice that an amount of R45,690.000 is being appropriated for Education, R256 million for Defence, and R110 million for agriculture in all its aspects. That is all very well. But now I want to ask, “Without effective education, what is the purpose and the use of all State Departments and what would we intend doing with the R1,921.1 million for which we are budgeting? Of what use would it be without effective education? Of what use would it be if the country’s education was not effective? As we all know, our education must be geared for the discovery of human talent and for employing that talent in such a way as to achieve optimum development and utilization of the abilities of the serviceable people. When we speak of serviceable people, hon. members opposite should not only think of the serviceableness of the hon. members on this side. We should also like them to be serviceable and if education in the past could not succeed in that regard we hope that it will succeed to do so in the future. However, with the passing of the legislation on education we said such a great deal that I do not want to say a single word more about that matter. I prefer to raise another matter in regard to education.

In our high schools in particular a campaign of “keep your country clean” is in progress at present, and the pupils sign a solemn pledge, namely that they will keep their country clean. What do we understand “country” to mean? We understand it to mean the streets, also of Cape Town, public roads, public holiday resorts, school grounds, public assembly halls, and also these Houses of Parliament. When one enters this Chamber at times it looks as if a “happening” was held the previous evening. We do not have the facilities to place wastepaper in baskets, and that is a pity. If the schools tackle this matter it is bound to be a success. I dislike what I have to say, but if one’s conscience is forcing one to do so, and that is how it is with me, one may not keep quiet. If the schools persevere with this campaign I hope that within a decade’s time the schools would have seen to it that the greater part of Cape Town will no longer create the impression of being a dirty slum area between the natural beauty of Table Mountain on the one side and the blue sea on the other side. We only have to teach our children to make a promise that they will keep their country clean. It must be a solemn pledge and it now happens that those schools have drawn up such pledges which are signed by the pupils. I have had the honour of seeing a few of the pledges drawn up by those schools but I want to refer to one special pledge in particular which is even more than a solemn pledge, namely an in-honour-bound undertaking, which the children have to sign and that is that they will assist in keeping our country clean. I shall now have to read, Sir, because it is written down in a pamphlet. You have already given me a fright, Sir, as far as reading speeches is concerned, and you can see that I am on my guard. This is what I want to read—

And then the undertaking follows—

This is what they sign. Our education has to adapt itself to the changing circumstances of life, but if that is the case, then our schools must also influence the circumstances of life and cause them to develop in a certain direction.

It was reported in 1965 that the backlog in the building programme of the Department of Education amounted to R54 million, and I wish the Minister of Community Development and the Minister of Public Works were present to hear what I now want to say. To my utter disappointment and regret I have to say that a technical high school at Nylstroom is included in this amount of R54 million which represents the backlog in our building programme. I know that the hon. the Minister of Education will quite rightly say to me that this matter is no longer in his hands and that it is in the hands of the Minister of Public Works, but when I speak to the Minister of Public Works he tells me that the Minister of Education has to determine the order of precedence. Consequently there is no occasion in this House for discussing that matter and therefore I have once again risked saying now what I have just said.

We all know of the shortage of manpower, inflation, and the restrictions on Government expenditure, but we must remember that effective education can make an enormous contribution to eliminating that shortage. These and a hundred and one other circumstances are the results of hundreds of factors which can be summarized in these few words: Mankind’s fault. It is the fault of mankind that there is inflation, that there is a backlog in our building programme for education. Everything which is wrong is the fault of mankind, and human faults can be decreased to a large extent by more talent, intelligence and skill, and the place for cultivating these assets is the school. [Time expired.]

I should like to proceed from where the hon. member for Waterberg left off. I want to emphasize that technical education is of extreme importance in combating inflation, because, as we all know, productivity combats inflation and productivity can be promoted by training technicians. If we give technical training to more people in our own country, it will enable us to import fewer people from countries abroad. In this connection I also want to make a plea that special attention should be given to the fact that Kempton Park has an aircraft factory, that large industrial developments are in progress there, that there are many factories at Kempton Park and Isando, and that the building of the technical high school for Kempton Park should be promoted on the order of precedence so as to make it possible for it to be built at an earlier stage. However, I want to emphasize that more money should be made available for technical education.

In the second place I also want to plead for something else and that is that students ought to get a rebate on debts incurred in connection with their studies. This is a difficulty which is being experienced particularly by students who are not well off. If the students are granted a rebate on debts incurred in connection with studies, it may stimulate further studies.

Then I should like to refer to what the hon. member for Mooi River said here. I have also listened to earlier speeches made by him and at times I have found his speeches to be rather good. Once I gained the impression that he really was a very pleasant fellow from the Mooi River area, but to-day that image has been spoilt to a certain extent. But there nevertheless is something which he said with which I want to agree wholeheartedly, and that is that the English-speaking teachers in South Africa have in fact meant a great deal to this country. I think that he was labouring under a misapprehension when he intimated here that hon. members on this side had insinuated that that was not the case. They have meant a great deal and I think that they can still mean a great deal in the future, particularly with regard to the promotion of national unity which we all regard as being essential. They can do a great deal in that regard. It ought not to be necessary at all to have parallel medium schools in order to do so. All that is required is that the education in English-medium schools ought to be such that the children will be inspired with a South African patriotism. It is in that common South African patriotism amongst English-speaking pupils and Afrikaans-speaking pupils that national unity will be found, one which will not only consist of being together in the same building, but of a unity of hearts; this is how we will achieve national unity which is required for South Africa’s preservation against the forces which want to destroy it. If that happens, if English-speaking pupils learned to love South Africa, to respect the history of South Africa, to be proud of our forebears, not to be ashamed of the past of the nation of South Africa, that will not be indoctrination. That will not be indoctrination because that will be the truth. In giving a definition of indoctrination, the hon. member for Orange Grove once said that as long as it was the truth it was not indoctrination. By those means we shall instil in our children the sense of pride which goes hand in hand with the patriotism by means of which we shall build an inspired nation in South Africa.

I also feel that it is desirable for more provision to be made in the history curriculum than is perhaps made at present for bringing the children to understand what the white man has meant in this country, not only for the white man but also what he has meant for the Bantu. I have here a book which it is worth-, while reading. It is called Path of Blood and the author is Peter Becker. It is a beautiful book which describes how the barbaric forces of Moselekatse in particular destroyed the Bantu in South Africa and launched movements which later drove the Bantu even to cannibalism. It was the white man who broke those barbaric powers of Moselekatse and Dingaan to save civilization and at the same time those Whites saved the Bantu in South Africa. It would be advantageous if ample provision could be made for that in the curriculum.

I think that at this stage this debate has taken up just a little more than half the time which has been allotted to it. Perhaps it will be a good idea if I give a short reply at this stage. To the hon. member for Kensington I want to say that I have taken cognizance of the various points raised by him in regard to various matters which can really be considered only when the National Education Policy Act is applied. I have taken cognizance of what the hon. member said and those things will certainly be kept in mind in the determination of policy.

I should like to say a few words in regard to a matter mentioned by both the hon. member for Kensington and the hon. member for Mooi River, and that is the question of the training of teachers. I am very pleased that they have expressed their concern in regard to this matter. I have only been able to obtain the figures for the Transvaal. We all agree with the hon. member for Mooi River that we must make a very urgent appeal to our English-speaking fellow-citizens in this country to contribute their quota of teachers. There was a time when the Afrikaans-speaking people in this country were very concerned, and quite rightly so, about the future of their language; they had to fight for that. I am one of the people who do not blame our English-speaking fellow-citizens in the least for being concerned about the future of their language at this stage and for wanting to fight for the preservation of their language rights, even if one has to fight one’s own people to bring them to their senses and to make them realize that they have to contribute their share, because these figures really are alarming. On the second Tuesday of June, 1964, there were 10.476 Afrikaans-speaking teachers in the Transvaal whereas there were only 2,437 English-speaking teachers on that same date. It is true that these figures relate to a period just more than two years ago. Then there were 214 teachers who could teach both languages, Afrikaans and English, 83 German teachers, and 33 teachers who spoke other languages, a total of 13,243 teachers of whom 2,437 were English-speaking.

Are those figures only for the Transvaal?

Yes. These figures come from the Bureau of Census and Statistics. It seems to me that there has been a small improvement over the past two years, if I base my judgment on the number of students who attended colleges on the 10th college day of this year. The figures are as follows: Afrikaans-speaking students, 4,632; English-speaking students 1,753. They are still in the minority, but according to these figures there has been an improvement. There are 100 students whose home languages are English and Afrikaans and there are 52 students whose home languages are Dutch, German, etc. I am mentioning these figures because they represent my honest opinion and that was also my point when we dealt with mother-tongue education during the discussion on the Bill. The hon. member for Mooi River in furnishing his figures also made an analysis of the number of English-speaking teachers in high schools and his analysis was alarming. As regards the English-speaking teachers who know the idiom and everything about the language, and who have a profound feeling for the language, as the Afrikaans-speaking person has for his language, the number is so small that it is alarming if one considers what is becoming of the subject itself. This is not the only subject about which we are concerned. That is also true of mathematics, natural science and many other subjects for which we do not have sufficient teachers. I am very pleased that this matter was raised by hon. members, because I associate myself with what they said and I once again want to make an appeal for each group to produce its quota as far as that can be done. This patriotism must be present because our South African pattern is that we neither want nor can afford to lose any of these languages—not with their rich literatures and everything related thereto. These languages are here to stay. There is no question of the one being dominated by the other. Those people who speak of those things and who think in that direction, are wrong, because that is not the object of our system of education. I am pledging myself here in every possible way. I am staking my entire reputation on the fact that that is by no means the object. But we shall have to attend to these matters.

The hon. member for Kensington expressed quite a number of views in regard to what we could do and those matters will have to be considered very carefully, namely the question of married female teachers, teaching aides and the exchange of Afrikaans-and English-speaking teachers. I think, however, that there is one major defect in the training of teachers. I can freely express this opinion to-day without having to refer it to any advisory council. These three and four year courses which have now been introduced are most definitely good. The longer one studies the better. The defect of the three and four year courses is that they do not include essential university training. That is where the defect is. Why do we have this shortage of mathematics and language teachers? The reason is that this training ought to be received at a university in respect of at least two school subjects so that the teacher concerned may be able to stand before a class with at least the knowledge of a baccalaureus degree when he teaches one of these subjects.

What about more practical work in the schools?

More practical work still does not provide the background of knowledge of the subject. Knowledge of the subject surely is absolutely essential. During the holiday courses for teachers, it became evident that many of the mathematics teachers in high schools were people who had only qualified themselves in mathematics up to the matriculation level. Things cannot go on like this. Surely one cannot impart knowledge to another person if one’s knowledge of a subject is equivalent to that person’s and think that one can teach on the strength of such knowledge. This simply cannot happen even though there are self-made people. There are many things which can be done in regard to the training of teachers and on that point I agree with the hon. member for Kensington. Personally I am also of the opinion that we are not making full use of the services of these fine married female teachers. The problem is that nearly all of them live in the cities where this shortage of teachers is not so acute. This is a very thorny matter which involves many problems. I want to tell the hon. member, however, that I consulted with the administrators, even before this legislation was passed, in order to ascertain whether we could not compensate these people, as we ought to compensate them, on the same basis as in the case of public servants. We are able to give much more attention to all these matters as a result of the way which has been cleared by the legislation passed by this House.

The hon. member for Kensington also raised the point that a parent could not send a son who attended an English-medium school, for example, to an Afrikaans-medium school for one year in order to acquire knowledge amongst the Afrikaans-speaking people in particular. The parent is, of course, free to do so after the boy has passed Std. VIII. Std. VIII marks the end of compulsory education. When a child is in Std. IX or X the parent is free to send his child to any school of any medium which he prefers.

Then it is too late.

It is not too late. The final two school years form a unit. The hon. member for Kensington knows that high school activities and examinations are really divided into two parts. The first phase being from Stds. VI to VIII and the second phase being from Stds. IX to X. If he wants to do so during the final two years, he is quite free to do so and he has every right to avail himself of that. There is nothing which prevents him from doing so.

The hon. member for Umlazi gave me quite a shock, but I think he chased up a hare here which refused to run. When he first raised the matter I thought he had me in a comer. I had the privilege of opening the naval college at Granger Bay on 10th December, 1966. The superintendent, Captain Nankin, a very competent person who is in charge of affairs at the college, kept me there for the whole day and I looked at everything. Fortunately I also have first-hand knowledge of the matter. I have made inquiries in regard to the few complaints raised here by the hon. member. I may only say that Captain Nankin told me at that time that it was realized what the maritime requiremens were, but that the citizens of the Republic of South Africa had not yet become sea-minded to such an extent that there was an influx of candidates to the training institute. We have not yet become so sea-minded. In the Cape Province the Coloureds are much more sea-minded than the Whites. To find these young men to be trained as officers is not such an easy task. I have been informed that in spite of very intensive publicity and visits to high schools by the captain-superintendent of the college himself, he could not succeed in recruiting more than 28 cadets this year. On 10th December last year that number was even smaller, because then the first batch passed out and I had the honour of handing them their certificates. On that occasion he told me that he hoped that the matter would improve as a result of his intensive campaign. We have never been so optimistic as to build a larger unit than that which was erected for a provisional number of 60. We knew that we would not succeed in filling that accommodation for the first two or three years. Intensive recruiting campaigns were undertaken. This entire matter is the subject of discussion between my Secretary, Dr. Op’t Hof and the Chairman of the board of control of the College, Mr. N. Malan, of Safmarine. We have obtained the best men to serve on the board of control. All of them are very interested and enthusiastic. They are not people who simply keep some seats warm. In addition I have ascertained that the cadets have all facilities at the College for rugby, judo, cricket, boxing and yachting. The hon. member said that one poor fellow could not even obtain permission to play rugby. I just want to tell the hon. member that as it happens this College is playing a rugby match against Hamiltons to-night. The hon. member should not come to this House to-night. He should go and watch the College playing rugby. He said that that poor fellow did not even get the chance to practice. Now, as it happens, the Naval College is playing a match against Hamiltons to-night. The hon. member has chosen a very bad time for chasing up this hare. The hare refuses to run. The hon. member for Umlazi has tried to chase up a dead hare.

In addition I have to state that this college is functioning as a ship. Hence it is called “General Botha”. This is the old name. The College is situated next to the sea, but it functions as a ship. In other words, training is given under the conditions which prevail on a ship at sea. One forgets that one is on land. There one is out at sea. During the period of training they have to be prepared for the careers elected by them. During the first six weeks of orientation—that is the arrangement there—cadets are allowed to invite friends. Two braaivleis dances are held as well as two dinners for the very purpose of enabling them to become adapted and accustomed to the entirely new way of life. These things are arranged for them during the first six weeks. All these things are done to make the cadets feel at ease. Subsequently they attend classes from Mondays to Saturdays. If they are not on duty during a week-end they are given leave of absence like on a ship. These fellows have to learn that discipline. To create the impression here that they are sitting in some kind of prison, is really not something which this beautiful, new naval college of ours deserves. It does not deserve to get that name. It should be borne in mind that that is an intensive training course in which the requirements of the Merchant Shipping Act have to be taken into account. It has to comply with those requirements. It is very intensive. If there is to be any departure from existing arrangements, the course will have to be extended over two years and we would like the course to be completed in one year, because it is in the interests of the young men as well as in the interests of shipping. There is a tremendous shortage at the moment. I really advise the hon. member to pay a visit to the College. It is situated very nearby and the people there are very friendly. The hon. member may rest assured that if he informs them in advance he will also receive a nice glass of beer. He will be received very cordially and everything will be shown to him. I advise every one who is interested to visit this beautiful, new development, the new naval college at Granger Bay, in order to determine whether the informant of the hon. member does not happen to be one of mother’s spoilt little boys who made complaints, and whether the hon. member is not just wanting to use that to waste our time in this way here in Parliament.

A few other ideas were expressed, particularly by the hon. member for Randfontein. He spoke of bursaries. I may just tell him that the Advisory University Committee—the A.U.C., as it is known—is engaged at present in reviewing the entire question of bursaries with a view to giving generous financial assistance to students. What we are trying to achieve with the National Bursary and Loan Fund is exactly the same thing. Hon. members will notice from the Budget, as announced by the Minister of Finance, that we are receiving 2 per cent for technological training and that that may also be used for all these purposes. I can assure the hon. member that that is happening. The question of tests mentioned by him is an important point. I may just inform him at this stage that a great deal of progress has been made with drawing up and validating the battery of tests in the light of their general application at the end of the primary school course for discovering talent at that stage and for guiding such talent along lines which will lead to the best development of such talent. I am very pleased that as far as future legislation is concerned, we have been able to foresee this point so that there can be no mistake. The hon. member supports me in the attitude I adopted in regard to the training of teachers and that is that it is something which must come right soon. I may just inform the Committee that I have already instructed the National Advisory Education Council to proceed with this matter to such an extent that it will be possible, when I meet them in Pretoria before my departure for Europe on 16th May, to take the first steps in regard to the necessary legislation which will have to come for effecting better co-ordination as far as the training of teachers is concerned. I think these are more or less the most important points which have been raised up to now.

The hon. member for Kempton Park made a statement which I should like some other hon. member to follow up. He said that it was now the duty of English-speaking people to teach patriotism and to inculcate patriotism in the minds of the English-speaking youth. I should like to ask some hon. member to get up and tell us exactly what the English-speaking teachers in this country are doing which is not in their view correct. I think they owe us an explanation. I think they should get up and tell us exactly what the English-speaking teachers in this country are doing which does not encourage patriotism in the minds of the English-speaking youth in this country. Why I stood up originally, before I was led astray by the hon. member for Koedoespoort, was to give a warning to the members of the “Afrikanervolk” who have provided so many teachers in this country. I want to say now that I am grateful that my language has been kept alive in the ranks of Afrikanerdom by the Afrikaans speaking person as a teacher, but I also want to say that we face a tremendous problem and that the Afrikaner people will face the same drain on their manpower that the English-speaking people face by reason of their more intimate contact with the economy of South Africa. I believe that we are going to see a falling off in the number of Afrikaans-speaking people who turn to the teaching profession, as they become more and more involved in the economy of South Africa. What I stood up to say was that I believe that we have to pioneer in this country the methods of teaching in which the role of the teacher has of necessity to be reduced to a minimum. We face a position which has no parallel anywhere in the world, not in the United States or Great Britain or anywhere else, by reason of the smallness of our white population and the fantastic demand that is made on the white population to keep the economy of South Africa going. I believe that we have to learn everything we can from overseas as far as teaching aids and language laboratories and closed circuit television and everything else is concerned, as used in education, and we have to give the most serious attention to original research. I wish I had the opportunity to speak before the hon. the Minister replied, because it is in this regard that I want to plead with the Minister to-day. I want to plead that his Department and he himself particularly should give express attention to that point.

I fully agree.

I am very pleased because I believe that the demand for white manpower is inevitably going to reduce the number of people coming forward to teach. We have to go even further ahead than the United States has gone in this kind of teaching in which the teacher is going to be able to teach as many people as possible by means of aids to teaching rather than on a person to person basis. That is what I wanted to say originally.

Mr. Chairman, I am sorely tempted to tell the hon. member for Mooi River of how I once, as a young teacher at an English medium school, tried to teach Afrikaans, and of how often I was asked: “But sir, why must we learn that language?” I could also tell the hon. member of how, when I was the principal of a large high school, I had to make a study of the English language to enable myself to teach it because there was no English-speaking teacher available to teach the language. I could also tell the hon. member how for eight years I taught the English language at that school with as much enthusiasm with which I taught my own language— and with great success. I do not want to say anything further about the matter.

Arising from what I have noticed in this House—and I am sorry the hon. member for Houghton is not present now—I have become convinced that the education of our young women is not all it should be and that there are serious deficiencies in that respect. It is the task of education to make the individual of service to his nation and his country, and to lead him back to the stabilizing anchor of faith in his Creator, and to arm him with sufficient knowledge and a sense of responsibility to be able to use that knowledge. In our country with its small white population it is particularly necessary that our education system should function in such a way that not a single member of the population is maladjusted and will not therefore be able to make a constructive contribution to the national life. Since our youth is to-day being faced with tremendous challenges and since the parental home is to an ever decreasing extent becoming unable to play its part in respect of the child, increasingly greater demands are being made on school and university. I should therefore like to express a few ideas here arising from the question of the education of our young women because I think that the present education system definitely does not make provision for enabling our young women able to cope with the great demands which are being made of women in general at the present time. Over the ages womankind has proved that it can influence and change the course of history, can influence and change not only the individual but also mankind as a whole. For many years, even as late as the 19th century, young women had no access to higher education. Their mothers prepared them for their task as woman and mother at home. When, in due course, the young woman took her place in the high schools she had to be satisfied with syllabuses and courses which had already been established with boys in mind. The point of departure in these syllabuses and courses was solely the requirements of boys. As far back as 1940 the late Dr. G. G. Cilliers wrote in Die Unie (translation)—

He went on to refer to the danger that women could as a result lose their balance and he emphasized the need for the development of true femininity. In her desire to prove that she has the same intellectual potential as the man, the woman has thrown herself into the struggle to break loose from her primeval task which is to please her husband, look after her home, bring her children into the world and educate them, and to exercise the gentle and ennobling influence in life. She has had only one purpose in life, which is to prove that she is in every respect the equal of the man. She has to a great extent succeeded in achieving this object, but much has been lost in the process. That is why our juvenile problems of to-day must probably be seen in the light of the emancipation of women. In recent times educationists have become convinced that a differentiated educational system in respect of our girls is essential because personality, characteristics and the interest of girls are totally different from those of boys.

At the moment, as far as the Cape is concerned, there is no differentiation in respect of girls, except that they are required in standard six to devote one and a quarter hours per week to domestic science. But for her task as woman and mother she is receiving practically no preparation in our educational system of to-day. The question then arises: Do we to-day still believe in the woman as the bearer of the conscience of the nation? Do we still believe that it is the woman who pre-eminently has to exercise the ennobling, the uplifting, the softening influence in life, not only towards the child and the community, but also towards the nation, and who has to help develop these things further? Do we still believe that our young women, according to the Scriptures, will be hewn out like corner pillars according to the building style of a palace? Miss Coetzee, principal of the Bloemhof Girls School at Stellenbosch, writes as follows (translation)—

Taking the above into consideration it is clear that our ultimate aims in respect of the education of the young woman will have to be stated very clearly. A thorough going study by the Advisory Education Council in this regard is decidedly necessary. Recently Mr. Kuschke, managing director of N.E.C., advocated that the problem of our manpower shortage should be solved by our women. He pointed out, inter alia, that 37 per cent of the labour potential of West Germany consisted of women, while the corresponding figure in South Africa was only 26 per cent. In this respect the women in South Africa can most certainly make a very important contribution. But now I ask myself the question: Is it worthwhile having flourishing industries if our family life is going to be destroyed as a result? Is it not our duty in the first instance to prepare our young women for their primary task and calling, namely that of being a wife and mother, and only then as a professional person? A survey made amongst women students at universities has indicated that more than 80 per cent of the young women there see their most important task as being that of becoming a wife and mother, and that their studies are really only a means of making a good marriage. But for this primary task, i.e. married life, they have not been educated because our education system does not comply with those requirements.

There were the days when the South African housewife was regarded as being the best cook in the world. The traveller Lichtenstein recounts how the farmer’s wife on every small farm set before him the most delicious dishes. But to-day our culinary art is regarded as being amongst the poorest in the world. Many of us who are older still think back nostalgically to freshly baked bread and farm butter, yellow rice, milk tart, tomato stew … What do we find on our tables to-day? Shop bread, shop butter and in addition tinned food. Well, let us eat the tinned foodstuffs if we have to, but the souls of our children which are being lost because they are being reared by servants will testify against us.

I now want to suggest that since we are entering a new era in education there should be a new emphasis and a new approach in regard to those subjects which would meet the differentiated requirements of girls, in the first place as a female, and in the second place in her differentiated triple task and responsibility as mother, wife and ultimately also as career woman. I want to advocate that efficient provision be made for the teaching of home nursing, mother craft, family relations and personality, as well as family building. I want to ask for the establishment of more domestic science schools where our young women can be properly prepared and educated. I want to point out that in the large complex of the Uitenhage-Port Elizabeth area there are quite a number of special schools for, the training of boys, but that there are no similar schools for the training of girls.

In conclusion I want to plead, perhaps as a voice crying in the wilderness, for the establishment of a gymnasium for young women with, inter alia the following ideals: Continued education in domestic science in homemaking, with emphasis on nutrition, mother craft, child care, first-aid and home nursing. [Time expired.]

I want to associate myself with what the hon. member for Randfontein said here this afternoon in regard to many of our promising young people whose talents are being wasted. It is. a fact that the whole world to-day is development conscious. Our times are typified by the ever-increasing aspirations of nations. There are major differences between the developed and the underdeveloped nations—differences in regard to things like national income, military power, industrialization, and means of transportation. In my opinion the degree of development of a nation lies in the level of development which its people have attained. Fortunately South Africa is to-day regarded as being one of the most highly developed countries in the world —that is to say, if we leave the non-Whites out of the reckoning. Practically every normal white child in South Africa has the opportunity of attending a high school and as far as the number of university students is concerned there is only one country, i.e. America, which has a higher percentage of young people at university. In the period between 1952 and 1965, our student body in South Africa increased by· 110 per cent—which is really an achievement. In this regard we owe a vote of thanks to the farsightedness and seriousness with which the Department has tackled our educational problems. But in spite of all these facilities which are available to our children, the most aggravating bottleneck in the economic development of our country is still the lack of skilled workers. Of course this is not a problem which is confined to South Africa only; it is a phenomenon which one will find throughout the entire world. Perhaps the shortage m South Africa is attributable to the fact that our Whites have to carry an unusual degree of responsibility, and that in regard to our non-Whites. The Whites must not only see to their own development, but also to the development of the non-Whites. Just consider in this connection the manpower which is devoted to education, health, missions and to other matters for the care of our non-Whites. That is why it is all the more essential that we do everything in our power to utilize the potential of our youth to the full. Recently the hon. the Minister mentioned the fact that of the number of children who were in Std. 6 in 1959, not even 50 per cent reached matriculation.

I want to confine myself to another aspect. It is the disturbing phenomenon that we have such a large number of failures at our universities, particularly among first-year students. As far as first-year students are concerned, the number of failures last year at three of our largest universities were as follows: 38 per cent, 45 per cent and 46 per cent. Of course there are also failures amongst second and third year students, something which can be understood, but the number of failures decreases as students progress with their courses. What I find even more shocking however, is that 45 per cent of the students at South African universities do not complete their courses. Of course, one does not expect that all students enrolling at universities should complete their courses successfully, but it is definitely shocking that almost half of them do not. Not only is it a terrible waste of manpower; it is also a tremendous loss to the State, which has to bear plus-minus 75 per cent of the expenditure of our universities—stated in monetary terms approximately R2 million per year, as far as failures only are concerned. But what is the loss this entails for the parents, parents who have to feed and clothe those children and see to their other needs?

A great deal has already been said about the causes of this number of failures; reproaches have already been hurled in the direction of our high schools, and on the other hand against the universities. But I do not want to go deeper into this. I can understand that it is a difficult adjustment for a child to go from high school to university, from the strict discipline of the high school to the new conditions prevailing at a university. The fact of the matter, however, is that some of our best pupils, some of our most intelligent children, are wasted at our universities. I know of children with two, three, four or even more distinctions in matriculation who never made a success of their university career. Surely there must be something wrong somewhere. To my way of thinking the principal cause is perhaps to be found in the fact that our universities are becoming too large, with classes of 600 or 700 or even more students. I refuse to believe that a lecturer can do justice to 600 or 700 students in one class. The student himself has no access to the lecturer, and consequently he does not obtain proper instruction in his course. Another possible cause is the arrangement of the academic year at the universities. It is too short. Most universities begin at the beginning of March, and the students begin writing examinations in October. At the end of October many have already finished writing their examinations. After that these students have four months vacation—in other words, for four months those students roam around doing nothing. But that is not all. From the beginning of March to the end of October there are in addition vacations of almost two months; there is the question of initiation; there is the Rag in which the students must participate; and there are all kinds of “happenings”. South Africa cannot afford it. We are a young country which is still in the process of development and where the Whites have to maintain themselves. I want to ask whether it is not time the Government intervened, and whether it should not have greater say as far as the organization at the universities is concerned. I think the State owes it to the nation. Not only is the taxpayer’s money being wasted by those students and by poor organization, but the parents themselves are also concerned about their children whom they have to send to university. But what I find most alarming is that while we are wasting our manpower in this way the future of a nation is at stake here.

I cannot fully believe in what the hon. member for Algoa had to say. He gave us a long statement on what women should and should not do in South Africa, but I think he can safely leave the question of the care of our families to us. The hon. member for Boksburg talked about examination results and his comments tie in somewhat with what the hon. member for Algoa had to say, because the hon. member for Algoa made the point that juvenile delinquency was on the increase due to the emancipation of women in South Africa, which I think was a highly generalized and ridiculous statement to make. If juvenile delinquency is on the increase, you can blame the parents very largely for that, but not the children themselves. But when my friend talks about special subjects being taught to our girls in the schools, I would agree that a degree of differentiation is to be welcomed in many cases at certain levels. But with reference to what the hon. member for Boksburg had to say, let me say that if you look at the European examination results right through to matriculation, you will find that the girls have better results in almost every single school in the country than the boys. There I see the Minister of Education nodding his head, and I am glad that he agrees with me; so do not let us have so much of this special pleading about the girls.

I would like to refer the Minister to certain specific items in the Estimates. On page 39 there is an item. “Travelling Grants to Outstanding Personalities in the Fields of Education, Arts and Science, R5,400”. Can the Minister tell us who decides who receives these grants? Are they for research purposes, for art purposes, for education purposes, for scientific purposes, or are they travel grants? Perhaps the Minister would be kind enough to explain what they are for. At the bottom of page 39 there is the curious English entry, “Post-doctoral Fellowship Posts”. I take it that what is meant is post-doctorate. That is the correct English. I would also like to know from the Minister whether these post-doctorate fellowship posts are specifically for research purposes, because it is very important that we should know precisely what they are for. Can we please have some clarity on that? Then on page 42 there is an item, “External relations, R161,650”. Special provision is made in these Estimates for foreign students or students studying overseas, and I want to know whether these external relations have to do with public relations and if so, on what basis, who administers this money, or who travels. I should like to know what it is all about. On the same page, in the same list, appears a very strange item, “Integration of immigrants, R75.000”. This question of the integration of immigrants also appears at the bottom of page 40. Can the Minister tell us where this integration is? We do not pay to absorb children in the schools.

Is it indoctrination?

Are some of these immigrants being subsidized for training purposes? I think this is the sort of question we are expected to discuss in this debate. I would like to know from the Minister whether individuals are involved, or associations of immigrants, and whether this has to do with language difficulties, because if language difficulties are involved one would expect an official of the Department of Immigration to be brought in to assist. I would like to know what it is. The total Immigration Vote is only R6.5 million, and this R75,000 represents between one-eighth and one-ninth of that sum, and it is a lot of money. Could we have some clarity on that score? My next point is the question of education research. Going through the Estimates, I could only find three specific items dealing with educational research, which is of vital importance. There is the National Council for Social Research, for which there is R205,000. The post-doctorate fellowship posts, I presume, are also for research, but I should like to have that assurance. Then there is the Social and Educational Research Branch, which is R848,000, making a total of R1,158,502, which of course is relatively little when one considers how much work there is to be done.

Now, I am not in order in discussing the Planning Vote here, but I am in order in discussing the principle that the Minister does not control all the money voted in the Republic for educational research. The Minister of Planning has R10 million voted for research. Could the Minister tell us what percentage of that R10 million voted for the Minister of Planning is in fact relevant to his Department? Because we consider that this Minister should control all monies relative to educational research, and not the Minister of Planning. We do not like the principle at all, any more than we like it in regard to Health or any other portfolio. I would say that this question of research is of enormous importance at the moment when, as hon. members have already mentioned, we are going to have a considerable degree of differentiation introduced into our schools. Take this as an isolated example. Differentiation is going to set our labour pattern in South Africa for many years. Thank goodness we have got to this stage at last, but overseas they have spent millions, as the Minister knows, doing research into what type of schools to have and what subjects to teach, with this differentiation which has been appealed for by the hon. member for Algoa and others. I would like to know from the Minister just how much more money he hopes to get for purposes of research in the educational field.

Now recently the Minister made a very interesting speech. Of course it was an election speech but we do not hold that against him. He made an election speech a few days ago in Johannesburg (West), in which he said:

Of course he is quite right. I wonder whether the hon. the Minister got those figures from my Hansards over the last two or three years? But what is so interesting about it is that the Minister can make this statement, but where is this money voted? There is certainly not any extra money to any great extent voted in this Budget. I would say that it is highly irresponsible to say that we are not spending nearly enough money on education and then to come to this House and ask us to vote these Estimates when they are totally inadequate for the needs of the country, as the Minister has said himself. In the same speech the Minister said that his aim was—it was only his aim, but it was a very laudable aim—to have Std. 10 as the minimum school-leaving standard for European pupils. Of course this would be a very good thing indeed, but if we have this degree of compulsion, could we have an assurance from the Minister on two things, firstly that he will be prepared to subsidize all those children who could not possibly afford to go on to Std. 10 unless they were financially assisted, and secondly, where do we find the surplus teachers? I was delighted to hear the Minister say that he might think in terms of equal pay for equal work for women teachers. This is a very big step forward if he keeps his promise, but the fact of the matter is that if you are going to have compulsion up to Std. 10 you will not be able to run the Education Department at all without the assistance of married women and you will only get them on the basis of equal pay for equal work. Other wise, they will compete in the private sector.

My last point, I am afraid, is contentious. I want to ask the Minister whether he knows about this book and whether he approves of it. It is a book called Civics for Std. 7 and Std. 8. I think it is the most shocking example of a school textbook that I have ever had the privilege of reading. It is one long example of indoctrination. [Time expired.]

The hon. member for Wynberg who has just resumed her seat referred to a speech which the hon. the Minister made in Johannesburg. I should like to spend a little time on this speech and refer to it. The hon. member for Wynberg said that it was a purely political speech, and she took it amiss of the hon. the Minister that he had said certain things there. Mr. Chairman, it is a fact that the Minister said important things there in the interests of South Africa, and not merely for the purpose of making some political capital, as hon. members may like doing at political meetings. Where is the money which has to be spent on education? The hon. the Minister is in charge of this Department and he is at least able, after discussing the matter, to make attempts to get more funds for his Department.

The hon. the Minister referred to the fact that only 41 per cent of the national income in South Africa is at the moment being spent on education, and he also mentioned the percentage in other countries, inter alia the United States and Russia. He also said that we should spend more than 4+ per cent of our national income on education. We have no fault to find with that plea of the hon. the Minister and we should like to support it, but if we are to invest more money in this major project then we should also like to receive the most benefit and the greatest dividends from that money, and we ask ourselves whether we are at the present moment receiving the best dividends on the money we are investing in education? I do not believe that it is the case even to-day. The hon. member for Boksburg has already referred to the high incidence of failures at our universities, and I should like to ascertain from the hon. the Minister whether, in the course of all the enquiries which have been made into the factors leading to this large number of failures, anything concrete has appeared and whether there is a specific basis on which this great erosion can be combated? Perhaps the hon. the Minister may be able to tell us, when he replies to the hon. member for Boksburg, what progress has already been made in this connection. I want to repeat that we are prepared to spend more money on education, but then we must try and put a stop to the erosion which exists inter alia in respect of students at our universities, and try and obtain the greatest dividends on our investment in education.

Then the hon. the Minister also referred to research and the amount of money which is being spent on scientific research (more than R22 million) and the amount of money which is being spent on research in the field of social sciences (approximately R840,000). The hon. the Minister advocated that the latter amount should be increased considerably because education itself falls under the research which is being done in the field of social sciences. We should like to support the Minister in this as well, for in our education it is our endeavour to educate the individual as a whole and to maintain the balance between all these other matters. It is also a fact that the knowledge which springs from scientific research and research into the social sciences is in turn used in our educational and teaching processes, and if there is no balance between scientific research and research in the social sciences, then we too will also suffer in our attempt to educate the individual as a whole. There are many other fields which are lying fallow as far as education is concerned, and we are pleased that it will be possible to do much more research into education after the National Education Policy Act has been passed.

Then I should just like to refer briefly to a matter which has already been mentioned, i.e. the large number of failures at our universities, and the question of an extra year after the normal school year, before the student goes up to university. I should just like to ascertain whether those matters have been thoroughly investigated, on a scientific basis.

The hon. the Minister also expressed his concern in regard to the high school-leaving percentage and the low enrolment percentage at the universities. Less than 50 per cent of the Std. 6 pupils of 1959, for example, reached matriculation. It is also a fact that only about 15 per cent of our school going children do not have the intellectual capacity to follow the normal syllabus. We want to assume that the others do have the intellectual ability and are capable of following the normal syllabus, and if only 50 per cent reach matriculation this is a sign of erosion and there must be various factors which give rise to that erosion. What is necessary is a whole new attitude on the part of people in regard to high school education, and if that attitude is not cultivated then one will not be able to persuade even persons with good intellectual abilities to proceed to matriculation. But there is also the financial problem with which I have often had to deal. There are some of our parents who cannot keep their children in school up to matriculation, even i? they wanted to do so, and the idea has been expressed that the school itself and the church should help in this connection. I do not think that financial help in this regard can be expected from the church, perhaps not from the school either. Perhaps some of our schools could help certain pupils with their school uniform, with books and with sports equipment. They could perhaps cut down on their spending on sport because I am convinced that some of our schools go a little too far as far as their sporting activities are concerned and are spending too much money on them—not that we want them to be totally restricted. But we must find the means and plan a way of helping those parents who would like to keep their children in school up to matriculation and who do not have the financial means of doing so. There erosion is also taking place, and by holding out a helping hand there, we will in fact be able to keep many of our children in school at least up to matriculation. I hope that this will also receive some attention in education research. If we are able to solve the problem then we will see that the number of pupils who proceed to matriculation will definitely increase.

I merely want to complete my question to the hon. the Minister. I take it that he knows this book Civics for Sid. VII and Std. VIII?

Is it a prescribed book for the Cape Province?

It was issued officially by the Department of Education, Arts and Science—that is what it says on the front page—and it has a foreword by Dr. L. du Plooy. It is prescribed for the Transvaal schools. Sir, I only want to ask the Minister (1) whether he knows it; (2) whether he approves of children being given a lecture on the control of liquor? Does he think that that is part of the teaching of civics? There is a chapter here on Communism, which is absolutely monstrous; the chapter on industrial legislation is full of inaccuracies. If you are going to teach children about Communism then you must teach them about totalitarianism also. The whole book is inaccurate and a shocking piece of indoctrination.

I will be very pleased if you will hand it over* to me.

Yes, I will do so with pleasure.

The hon. member for Germiston put forward a plea for more research in education. I think that was the main gist of his speech. I want to support him in what he said and with his permission I would like to leave him with those few remarks.

I want to refer to the hon. member for Kempton Park who showed this Committee a copy of a book called The Path of Blood, which refers to the campaigns of two Bantu chieftains, Mzilikazi and Chaka. This book, as he explained, was written from the viewpoint of the Whites in South Africa. The hon. member is not here unfortunately but I should have liked to have asked him whether he has read the book Qua Zulu written by ex-Senator Cowley. This book deals with the same period of history through the eyes of the Zulu and it gives a completely different picture. Sir, this brings me to the hon. member for Randfontein who, I am pleased to see, is in his seat. The hon. member referred to a speech he made in this House some time ago and which he says has been completely misconstrued by us. He said that he taught history as he saw it.

No, I did not say that. I said “as it should be taught”.

Sir, I submit that that is even worse. He says that he taught history “as it should be taught”, in other words, as he thinks it should be taught.

No, according to the syllabus.

According to the syllabus but as he thinks it should be taught. At least the hon. member for Kempton Park had a reasonable outlook on this matter. His words were, “so long as it is the truth”, but the hon. member for Randfontein does not add this rider to it. He thinks that it should be taught “as he thinks it should be taught”. He does not say that he teaches history as it happened or that it should be the truth.

Order! The hon. member for Randfontein’s qualities as a teacher are not under discussion now.

I think I have made my point and I will leave the matter at that.

Mr. Chairman, on a point of order, the hon. member is insinuating that I told untruths, and I should like to know whether he may do so.

I did not notice any such insinuation.

I want to proceed to a specific case which is a question of policy and administration within the Minister’s Department. Briefly, the facts of the case are this. A Pietermaritzburg scholar wrote the senior certificate examination in December, 1966. The results of this examination were published in mid-January, 1967. The particular scholar failed four subjects and on the 24th January applied for a re-mark of those four subjects and sent her application under registered cover with the prescribed fee of R16. This was received by the Department on the 26th January. On the 24th February, not having had any reply from the Department, the parents of this pupil sent a reply paid telegram to the Department requesting a reply. That was a month later. They still had had no reply from the Department. On the 15th March I was asked to take up the investigation of this matter. At that stage the parents had still had no letter, telegram or other intimation from the Department. On the date on which I took the matter up with the Department a telegram was despatched to the parents of this scholar explaining the position. I found that the Department on that date by telephone asked the adjudicators to expedite the re-marking of these papers. This was more than six weeks after the initial application for a re-mark. But what was the position in the interim? In the interim the final date for applications to write the supplementary examination which was written at the beginning of March, had expired. In fact at that date the supplementary examinations had already been completed and we had still not got the results of the re-mark of these papers which was requested on the 24th January, 1967. To me this shows a shocking lack somewhere in the Department. There is something wrong with this hon. Minister’s administration of the Department. It also appears that the Department is sensitive to this fact and it is aware of this fact because they state that it is impossible, in view of the thousands of applications that are received, to do this re-mark before the supplementary examination is written. I am not going to criticize the Department because of this policy which is laid down. But I appeal to the hon. the Minister because surely he must find an answer to this position where you have children who possibly need not write the supplementary examination and who are compelled to write them because they have not had the results of an application for a re-mark of the papers that were written during December of the previous year. Something must be done. Either the closing date for applications for re-marks must be advanced, or the date of the writing of the supplementary examination must be advanced to eliminate this overlapping. I am advised by the Department that the closing date for applications for writing the supplementary examinations was the 3rd February and that the examinations were written from the 1st March but that the closing date for applications for re-marking and the reviewing of examination scripts was the 20th February. It is this overlapping I am concerned about. I will agree that it is impossible for any moderator to re-mark papers after the 20th February and to advise the applicants before the 1st March. Here there is an anomaly. Therefore, I appeal to the Minister to make a plan to sort this out and to adjust the situation so that justice can be had by these pupils. I think it is a shocking disgrace that a pupil who applied for a remark on the 24th January, an application which was received by the Department on the 26th January, had to write a supplementary examination on the 1st March without having been advised of the outcome of her application over a period of six weeks.

To the hon. member who has just resumed his seat I just want to say that I am very shocked at the statement he has just made. This is the first time I have heard of it, except that the Secretary has just whispered something about it in my ear. It the hon. member’s figures are correct it is a shocking state of affairs, something which I regret very much. I shall have the entire matter investigated. At the same time I want to tell the hon. member, who is still a comparatively new member in this House, that he must remember that although we are national Ministers our doors open as readily to him as they do to any other person. The hon. member for Wynberg, for example, has been to see me on several occasions. The hon. member is also welcome when he feels there is a matter which he wants to bring to my attention. I invite him to do so. Then it will perhaps not be necessary for us to discuss this matter across the floor of the House.

I want to reply briefly to what hon. members have up to now said in this debate. The hon. member for Mooi River, in his second speech, has just referred again to how necessary what the hon. member for Kensington does not want actually is. There are so many things which have to be investigated, things mentioned by the hon. member for Mooi River, that I simply cannot see how we will be able to do it without the help of the National Education Advisory Council. To my way of thinking this is one of the best testimonials to the urgent need for this Council. This Council can make use of experts everywhere, but somewhere the activities will nevertheless have to be concentrated. That is why I say that this Council will in future be able to do much better work than it has done in the past. To the hon. member for Algoa I want to say that differentiation in education is the ideal state of affairs—the more we are able to differentiate, the better; the more education can be of an individual nature, the better. We do not like the sausage-machine technique where all are cast into the same mould. The differentiation in regard to the education of girls which the hon. member also raised is a very important aspect. I also think that we have channelized the education of girls a little too much and let it coincide too great an extent with that of boys. The hon. member for Boksburg spoke about the large number of failures at universities. To him I can only say that it is a headache for many other people, quite apart from myself. However, we are not sitting still. In four fields a great deal of work is at present being done as far as this matter is concerned. My universities advisor, Professor Cilliers, is at present working on the drafting of two documents which will cover only a part of the problem. One of the documents deals with the size of universities and the second with the length of the academic year. It is hoped that these two documents will be available towards the end of the year, together with the universities’ comment thereon. These are definitely two major aspects of the problem. In addition the University of South Africa is also undertaking a study of the entire matter. Two years ago when I addressed them on graduation day at that University I asked them to investigate and collate the entire matter of the large number of failures a universities. At the moment somebody there is dealing with this matter. The fourth aspect which we are dealing with at present is the question of whether staff and equipment is adequate and sufficient to combat this large number of failures. All that I want to say is that a great deal has been written and said about this topic. It is alarming, but work is being done in regard to the matter.

The hon. member for Wynberg asked as good many questions, to which I shall try and reply. I only hope that, if I do not reply to them in the same order in which she put them, it will not make much difference. The first is the question of research. The hon. member made a point here and mentioned a figure. If I understood here correctly then she made a few calculations and arrived at the amount of R1,158,000. I do not arrive at that amount, because all that we are getting for research, is R250,000 in direct money. The costs involved in regard to the staff for the research is R437,500. Then the universities also receive from the Treasury an amount of R100,000 per year for research, which is granted to the universities in proportion to the ratio between their post-graduate students and their enrolment figure. That is the total amount which we receive for research.

The other questions which the hon. member asked us, are in regard to the question of the “external relations”. This amount really relates to cultural agreements. We have cultural agreement with Belgium, the Netherlands and West-Germany. But last year we had to invite two delegates from the Netherlands and Belgium, who are expected during 1967. That has resulted in the increase on that Vote.

The other amount in regard to which the hon. member put a question, is in respect of travel bursaries to outstanding persons. These travel bursaries are granted to eminent persons in the field of education, arts and science from Great Britain to visit the Republic, and have been approved as such by the Treasury. There is no such thing as a cultural treaty with Great Britain because we are still too close to each other to conclude a treaty. That is why we have therefore voted a special amount for outstanding persons there.

Then, as far as the integration of immigrants is concerned, the amount of R75,000 available here is really the full amount. It is used for projects, such as camps, courses and symposiums which are arranged in order to integrate immigrants with the South African way of life. We have, for example, in recent months held a camp at Glenmore beach, where English-speaking, Afrikaans-speaking and immigrant children from the different language-medium schools spent a few weeks together. The Department paid most of the expenses in that regard, apart from the amount contributed by the parents. With sport, symposiums and all kinds of ways the immigrants are being adapted to our typically South African way of life. It was a very successful attempt. It has got nothing to do with immigration. After the immigrants have arrived here, one feels that one should make them feel at home, particularly immigrants who are not English or Afrikaans-speaking. It is very important and it has been a major success, and we must say that we should like to continue with this. That is the additional amount of R25,000 which is being asked for here.

Under whose control are these holiday camps?

They are under the control of the Department of Education, Arts and Science. It is my Vote. We control them.

I am sorry, I think the Minister misunderstands me. Under whose direct control are they? Are they teachers or are they administrative officers?

We have the organizers for adult education. We have divisions in the Cape—our chief official is here—and everywhere. In Natal, for example, the organizer for adult education is in Durban. He is Mr. Joubert. These people undertake the organization, but it is all under the control of the Department of Education, Arts and Science.

I agree with the hon. member as far as the post-doctorate fellowship posts are concerned. I think the “-toral” is quite wrong in English. But in any case, this amount is intended for fellowships up to an amount of R60,000. The intention here is to find temporary employment somewhere for a person after he has obtained a doctor’s degree, either overseas or here in this country, and who cannot immediately obtain a post which will do justice to his qualifications. If that is the case it is quite likely that they will then become known and obtain a permanent position. Subsequently the Scientific Advisory Council therefore recommended that a number of post-doctoral fellowship posts be made available for suitable scientists returning from overseas for whom there were no immediate posts available. Such fellowship posts may then be utilized for work at any suitable institution to a maximum of two years in order to afford the fellowship-holder an opportunity of obtaining another post. It is of great help. Otherwise the expert arrives here, he is unknown, he cannot be placed in a position immediately and we lose his manpower. It has proved to be such a success—we obtained R30.000 for that purpose during the first year—that we are getting R60,000 this year.

Now just this in conclusion, I want to say that it appears to me that the two hon. members were apparently upset because I had allegedly said at a pre-election meeting that 4 to 5 per cent was not sufficient. But it is of course true. If we have this wonderful legislation which has been approved by the House, with a new educational policy and advanced technical education, which is going to cost us much larger sums of money, and will result in more expenditure per pupil and for which the percentage will of necessity have to be increased, then it is surely quite correct to say that we will have to spend more. I did not get this from the United Party speakers. When the time comes it will have to be accepted. The time has now come, and I think the Minister of Finance has already, in these Estimates, given proof in advance of this because greater concessions have already been made. Greater concessions have been made for State supported institutions; greater concessions have been made to universities; a 2 per cent allowance has been made for technical training, etc.

It must of necessity increase. I think the hon. members on both sides of the House can be glad that the new era has now unfolded and begun to develop. They must now walk with me through the open doors. We have finished discussing and kicking up a row about this matter, and now we are saying to all and sundry: Let us go forward together now and make an outstanding success of our education.

Votes put and agreed to.

Revenue Vote 8,—“Schools of Industries and Reform Schools, R2,330,000”:

This Vote is an important Vote, in that it relates to an important aspect of the duties of the hon. the Minister of Education, Arts and Science, namely the re-education of certain juvenile delinquents and others. First and foremost is the question of the reform schools. On this particular subject I realize that the hon. the Minister has had a considerable period of time to consider a report that was submitted by Mr. J. M. Lotter, namely, “Rehabilitasie van blanke jeugoortreders”. This was a very important report on a follow-up survey concerning former pupils of the Constantia Reform School. This report brought to light various important aspects of the work that has been undertaken at that reform school. For instance, a follow-up on former pupils revealed that only 26.3 per cent could be considered as successfully rehabilitated at that reform school, 10.1 per cent could be classified as partial failures, 60.1 per cent could be classified as failures and the remaining 3.5 per cent were unclassifiable. The basis for classifying a former inmate as a failure is the fact that he is convicted of an offence during a period of five years following his discharge from that reform school. I realize that the type of boy who has to be re-educated at such reform school is one in respect of whom other methods of rehabilitation and re-education have failed. Some are boys who are committed to reform schools from industrial schools and who have been convicted of various offences. I realize that a most difficult task faces the staff of such a reform school. However, I do feel that the hon. the Minister should consider the whole question of the reeducation that takes place at such a reform school to see whether it is possible to bring about a higher degree of success in the reeducation of these young people. I know that the number of pupils at reform schools has decreased. Perhaps this indicates that juvenile delinquency is not so serious a problem as it was some years ago. However, it is an important part of the Minister’s responsibility to ensure that every effort is made to see that the highest possible degree of success is attained in the re-education of these young people. I believe that there could be a considerable increase in the percentage of successful cases if after-care hostels were established by the Minister’s Department. It appears that many of these young people when they are discharged—although released on licence—soon fall into bad company and invariably come into conflict with the law within a very short period of time. I know that the financial position is one which does not encourage further expenditure, and moreover I am not allowed to advocate further expenditure at this stage. Nevertheless I should be pleased if the Minister could perhaps give consideration to the question of the after-care of these people once they have left such a reform school.

I should now like to mention certain aspects concerning the schools of industries. We see from the report of the Department of Education, Arts and Science that there are some 18 schools and just under 2,500 persons accommodated at these schools of industries. I feel that the whole task and the position of these schools could perhaps be reviewed by the Minister in order to ascertain whether it is not possible to have a greater degree of grading of these schools. Many young people, both boys and girls who are past pupils of these schools, have achieved a great deal after receiving instruction at a school of industries. However, a disappointing factor is that in many instances a certain measure of stigma is attached to some of these former pupils and some of them have a great deal of difficulty in obtaining employment. I feel that some of these schools could be so graded that they would only have as pupils those persons who have not developed any behavioural difficulties and become deviates in any way. I believe that that might assist in regard to the better training of these people and thus equipping them better to face the future.

Whilst dealing with our schools of industries, I want to say that another aspect which affects our reform schools, too, is the problem of the high number of absconders from these various schools. If one looks at the reform school figures referred to in this report one will see that 55.1 per cent of the pupils at the Constantia school were found guilty of absconding, whilst another 21.3 per cent were found guilty of attempting or planning to abscond, making a total of 76.4 per cent either absconding or attempting to abscond. This, I believe, is a very high figure indeed and perhaps further consideration could be given to this very difficult question of absconding pupils. Because obviously when these pupils abscond—and here I may add that a similar position exists, I think, in regard to the schools of industries and the high percentage of absconders there—a long routine has to be followed. The absconder has to be found, if he can be traced, and then he has to be returned to the institution from which he escaped. Invariably all the work that had been put into the re-education of that person has to be recommenced. There appears to be a great deal of wasted effort when it comes to the question of the high number of absconders.

In many instances these absconders are not traced. Some of them are traced a long time after absconding. I think that a greater degree of consideration should be given in regard to some of these pupils who had absconded, who have been absent from the institution for perhaps six or seven months. I have had some cases where pupils have been away from an institution under these circumstances for almost a year. Eventually they are traced either by the police or by the Department of Social Welfare and then they have to be returned to the institution. In nearly every instance these people again abscond within a very short period of time. It does appear to be a difficult task to rehabilitate or re-educate these people when they continually abscond, and perhaps the whole question of the position of an absconder should be reviewed, because, Sir, if a person has absconded and gone back into society and appears to have re-adjusted himself reasonably well, to insist that he return to the institution only means that that pupil will again abscond. With the continual absconding of the pupils it makes the task of the institution more and more difficult. There might be difficulties in regard to discipline having to be maintained. However, I feel that the whole question regarding how an absconder should be dealt with, particularly those from the schools of industries, should be reviewed by the Minister to ensure that the highest possible degree of success is achieved as far as these fine institutions are concerned.

Mr. Chairman, I found it interesting to listen to what the hon. member for Umbilo had to say on the question of our schools of industries. From his speech one could gather that he is greatly interested in this matter, but that he is nevertheless merely speaking theoretically from the outside. I now want to take this opportunity to say something about these schools with reference to my own experience. The previous speaker spoke about the absconders from these schools, and I want to assure him that this is one of the most difficult problems to deal with at such a school. There are numerous causes for that absconding, and unless one first analyses all the causes and finds the solutions, it will be virtually impossible to cope with them successfully. One of the major causes of absconding—and this I learned from experience at these schools—is the following (and I want to come back to this later in my speech): If any pupil at one of those schools receives the news that things are not going well at home between his father and his mother, that matters are reaching a breaking point, his first reaction is to abscond because he feels ashamed and inferior as a result of what is happening at home. He does that because he feels embarrassed in front of his fellow pupils. Then he absconds. As that is one of the causes—and none of us can dispute that—one realizes how difficult it is to keep a pupil who is in such a situation at the school and not confront him with the temptation of absconding.

As the hon. member for Umbilo said, there are approximately 2,500 pupils at our schools of industries. They are distributed throughout the country. I may just mention some places where white children are accommodated in such schools. We find them in Paarl, George, Oudtshoorn, Queenstown, King William’s Town, Dewetsdorp, Rustenburg, Wolmaransstad and many other places. The point I want to make now is most important. The pupils at the schools of industries are not there because they consider it a very good school. They are not there because the school of industries was selected for them by their privileged parents in order that they may receive a good education there. On the contrary, they are there because a child welfare commissioner or a magistrate sent them there in terms of the provisions of the Children’s Act, and in most cases they are also there against their will. This is a most important point, whether a child is at a school of his own free will or whether he is there against his will. There are many reasons why children are sent to schools of industries, and I may just mention some of them. He may have been truant or may have fallen foul of the law for some offence of a less serious nature, or he may be in need of care. Up to his fourteenth year he may have been in one of our orphanages, and now his primary education has not been completed and he has to go to a school of industries, or—and this is one of the most important reasons—he is there because he comes from a broken home. We have to bear in mind that our white children are our most important heritage in this country. We have to take those children away from such an environment, because unless we do so they will quickly become the flotsam and jetsam of society. They will be useless to society and they will be lost to the nation, and they may perhaps also become criminals. Now we take them away and place them in the schools of industries, where they receive both academic and vocational training and where we try to the best of our ability to turn them into useful citizens. If they have already become anti-social by the time they arrive at that school of industries, we try to rehabilitate them by means of training and discipline. It is indeed a pity that the public is virtually unacquainted with these schools and the wonderful work performed there. Virtually all the public knows about them is when those children run amuck or go off the rails, and then there are reports and photographs in the newspapers, such as those of the girls who absconded and got on to a roof. But the public knows little about the difficult and educational work performed day after day at those institutions. At one of the schools with which I am very well acquainted, a survey was made of why the children were in schools of industries. We found that over a period of 30 years no fewer than 75 per cent of them were admitted to those schools because they came from broken homes. I shall now give a typical example of what lands a child in a school of industries. The father and the mother become divorced. The children are entrusted to the mother’s care, but the mother is not in a position to give them all she would like to give them, and goes out to work. In the afternoons, when those children get home, there is nobody to give them parental love and to look after them, and then they wander about in the streets and come into contact with undesirable elements. The next day they play truant, and it does not take long before they fall foul of the law. As a result they are declared to be in need of care and are sent to a school of industries by the child welfare commissioner. With slight variations this theme may be multiplied.

I wonder whether it is generally realized how profoundly it affects a child’s spiritual life if his family is disrupted. His entire social foundation—and this is very important, because man is primarily a social being—collapses under him. A sinkhole forms in his spiritual life. His spirit is injured. He develops an intensive inferiority complex. He becomes touchy and aggressive and develops all kinds of complexes. At school he becomes a difficult pupil. To educate him and to correct what has gone wrong requires infinitely more patience, tact and devotion than in the case of ordinary teaching. For this reason I want to say that we appreciate the fact that from the Department the teachers attached to these schools receive extra compensation of at least R50 a year. They deserve it most fully, because they often have to sacrifice their holidays to do hostel duty, as not all the children have homes to go to and cannot stay behind in the hostels without supervision. Now we know that an academic syllabus contributes a great deal towards educating and training a child. The discipline of a workshop is perhaps also invaluable. But in this respect we should not forget that the vast majority of the pupils who are in schools of industries are there because they come from broken homes. Hostel life at these schools must certainly be organized differently from the ordinary schools, because we have to create a situation in which the hostel parents virtually have to compensate for what the child missed earlier in his life. To me that is the crux of the matter. The hostel parents have a demanding task. They must be dedicated people, because meeting the needs of the child, which he previously missed—many of them unfortunate children who never had a home and who never knew parental love—is by no means an easy task. [Time expired.]

I should like to thank the hon. member for Mossel Bay very sincerely for his kind words of encouragement both to the pupils and to the parents concerned, and also to the Department for the fine work which is being done in the schools of industries. By doing so the hon. member gave proof of his thorough knowledge of the work being done in this connection. His words serve as a great encouragement to us, because it is difficult to work with these people, who sometimes display behavioural deviations. I also want to thank the hon. member for Umbilo for the contribution that he makes every year. He has a keen interest in these schools. I want to assure him that his contribution too is always appreciated and that attention is given to the questions raised and the suggestions made by him. As far as the reform schools are concerned, the hon. member pleaded that more attention should be given to rehabilitating those people. I can only say to the hon. member that our psychological section pays special attention to introducing better methods of rehabilitation. However, I cannot support him in the matter of the after-care hostels, for which he pleaded, in view of the fact that the number of inmates is now decreasing. We are grateful that the numbers in our reform schools are decreasing enormously. It seems as though the number of juvenile delinquents has decreased. The Department of Social Welfare plays a very important part in assisting us with after-care. The hon. member pleaded for better grading of our schools of industries. There are 18 of those schools and he pleaded that they be reclassified so that those who are behavioural deviates to a greater degree will be grouped together, while those who are behavioural deviates to a lesser degree will be grouped together elsewhere. I just want to tell the hon. member that that has been accepted in principle, but the problem will be to get the buildings to make this classification possible.

As has been quite rightly said by the hon. member for Mossel Bay, and as is realized by the hon. member for Umbilo, the problem of the absconders is not an easy matter. There are so many reasons why people abscond. The hon. member for Mossel Bay mentioned a few reasons and we can add many more. I do not feel happy about this aspect either. Such an absconder is caught after six months or even a year and sent back to the same school or to another school. Seen from the point of view of discipline that is all very well, but the question is whether it is psychologically correct to do so and what would be the best thing to do. I can only say that I have ordered an investigation to be carried out as a result of complaints I have received from several schools, but particularly from one school, which has had frequent cases of people absconding. The whole matter is being thoroughly investigated at the moment in order to find out how these people should be treated, but I think there will be less absconding if schools can be reclassified into two categories and if we can place together those who display more serious behavioural deviations.

Vote put and agreed to.

Revenue Vote 9.—“Information, R3,524,000”:

Only a few months have gone by since the hon. the Minister last stood before us as the new Minister of Information. In the past few months comparatively little that was new was brought to our notice. Nor has a departmental report been submitted to Parliament on this occasion. The annual report for 1965-’66 was published as long ago as during the short session last year and has already been discussed by us. I think I, am correct in saying that a new report will not be published during this year. Under the circumstances it will perhaps be a good thing if the hon. the Minister could furnish us with a brief verbal report and inform us what value he sets on the work of his Department now that he has settled himself in as Minister, and whether he is perhaps planning any new schemes for his Department I see, for instance, that the amount requested for publications this year, is R138,000 more than the amount voted last year. Only two new publications of this Department have come to our notice. The most important one is the book on the court case in connection with South-West Africa; I am referring to the publication “Ethiopia and Liberia v. South Africa”. I think it would be unfair if we on this side did not express our great satisfaction with this work which is being done by the Department. The idea of publishing such a work is an excellent one, and the way it was executed was also outstanding. I must tell the hon. the Minister that it has always worried us a great deal that there were so few publications—particularly on South-West Africa and on South African policies—that were couched in sympathetic language. It is quite a long time since I myself was abroad, but it has always worried me, because I am interested in libraries and bookshops, that there was a total absence abroad of works on an important issue such as the South-West Africa question and works reflecting South African policies. This field has virtually been left entirely to publications of an aggressive nature.

I must say that we are of the opinion that in this regard the Government has been neglecting its duty over the years. I do not wish to deny that a great deal was and still is being spent on pamphlets and brochures, but I want to ask the hon. the Minister to investigate the desirability of spending more on hard-cover publications rather than the multitude of soft-cover publications which are being distributed all over the world. It simply remains a fact that the soft-cover publications one receives, tend to give one the impression that they are merely of a transitory nature. We know from personal experience that there are many people who immediately throw such publications into the waste-paper basket, but I have never seen a person throwing away a hard-cover publication—no matter how thin it is—even if it is in fact a pamphlet. It passes for a book and one puts it in one’s bookshelf; one regards it as a durable enduring piece of work. It may even be a thin pamphlet, but the moment it has been published in a hard cover, one regards it as something enduring. I realize that hard-cover publications are more expensive than soft-cover publications, but, after all, at present one may obtain various sorts of hard covers which are so cheap and yet so durable that one wonders whether the difference in expense is still as great as it was in former years. I think the hon. the Minister will agree with me that the life of a soft-cover publication is short and that information which is furnished in a hard cover, is regarded as something enduring. The only criticism I can offer in regard to this publication “Ethiopia and Liberia v. South Africa”, is that it is prominently described on the title page as being “Published by the Department of Information, Pretoria, South Africa”. One cannot object to the fact that this work was undertaken officially, but I think the hon. the Minister will agree with me that most people are prejudiced against anything that bears the stamp of the State.

To-day there is tremendous competition amongst governments to state their points of view to the world, and it is a fact that one is immediately less receptive if one sees the stamp of a government or of a state on a work, particularly if it is a political work. I think we must assume that people abroad respond in exactly the same way as we do, when they see the stamp of a government on a work. Therefore I wonder whether the Minister would not consider the establishment in his Department of a publication house which would be under the control of his Department, but which might act as a publishing agency for his Department. It is my honest opinion that this publication would, for instance, have been much more effective, in the message it conveys if, instead of reading “Official Account”, the title page had read “Factual Account Published by” (just to mention a name) “African Reports Publishing House”, or something of that nature, which would not bear the mark of government propaganda to the reader abroad.

There was a second publication, namely the new South African Quiz. I have a few points I want to raise in regard to that publication, but before I do so I just want to say a few words about something else. We have had the opportunity—and I am glad that the Minister created that for us—to see a few of the films the State Information Service is using for the purpose of explaining and advertising South Africa abroad. I must admit that some of them gave one the impression that they were more concerned with advertising the capabilities of the camera than advertising South Africa, but on the whole I must say that one was impressed by the quality of the films, and I am convinced that to those people who do not know anything about South Africa, these films must have been an eye-opener. We feel satisfied with the quality of the work the Department is rendering in this respect.

As regards the South Africa Foundation, I think that it merits appreciation for the publication work it is doing. If one looks at their publications, such as Perspective and others, one cannot but pay special tribute to them for the work they are doing for South Africa. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Bezuidenhout adopted a very reasonable tone to-day towards the work of the Department of Information. This is really in very sharp contrast to what he had to say recently at the United Party Congress in Johannesburg. According to The Star dated 16th November, 1966—after the Prime Minister had announced that a major information campaign would be launched from South Africa—the hon. member for Bezuidenhout said—

The tone the hon. member adopted to-day, is entirely in contrast with this tone. Apparently he has come to realize in the meantime that this Government has, after all, been having success with its information work abroad and that even more success can be expected. He also has proof from other sources that success has in fact been achieved. The O’Hara Committee of the American Congress which took evidence last year, heard the evidence of one of the Americans who complained about the effectiveness of South African information work in America and warned Americans that the impression this could give them on what was happening in South Africa would differ from the one South Africa’s enemies would like them to believe. If this is at the same time a testimonial from the hon. member for Bezuidenhout to the effect that the information work done by the Department of Information is in fact effective, in contrast to what he said in November last year, then I am glad.

I welcome the programme the hon. the Prime Minister announced last year, namely the major campaign which will be launched to put South Africa’s case abroad. There are many reasons why we may assume that this campaign can be very successful. Many things have changed in the world in the past few years. If we consider the effect of the verdict given by the International Court, and not only the verdict but particularly the evidence which was submitted there and which was accepted as being factually correct by our enemies— those people who have been trying to make matters so difficult for us over the past few years—we may accept that these are acts that speak volumes. That is why I agree that the publication of the book dealing with the International Court case is a evry important event of which all of us are very glad, and I am sure that all of us are congratulating the Department of Information on that work. There are other reasons why we may believe that the work of the Department of Information can bear more fruit now than perhaps a few years ago. In the past few years we have had to contend with a situation, in the first place particularly in Africa, where there was always some state or other that was still to become independent, and these African states brought cumulative pressure to bear on the international scene so as to make matters difficult for South Africa. But that process has not only come to a stop; this growing number of emergent African states which were putting on that pressure, did not only come to a standstill as far as development was concerned, but have even gone into reverse gear.

That would be evident to you ii) you would only consider how the effectiveness of the Organization for African Unity has declined in recent years, how it has been disintegrating and how the disappearance of Nkrumah and Ben Bella has served to subdue the general outcry which came from the African states. But this is particularly true of a state such as Nigeria, which was always held up to us as a state which was really the model of what had to be done in Africa and of what we in Southern Africa also had to follow—this Nigeria which was in fact the last state in Africa which still maintained a semblance of democracy but which has also collapsed now. All these events have shown the world how valid the standpoint is we have been adhering to in Southern Africa. In this case I am not only referring to South Africa, but also to Rhodesia. This series of events has brought about a situation in which we are able to speak to the world to-day, while the world is adopting another attitude of mind in regard to the realities of Southern Africa. In recent times many voices have been raised in favour of those very things we have been saying all these years. You will recall what a person such as Elspeth Huxley, who is held in very high repute as an expert on Africa, said last year. According to a report in U.S. News and World Report printed in The Star dated 8th March, 1966. she said—

This evidence is very significant, because it is exactly what we have been saying all the time. We said that a multi-racial community could in reality not exist, and this has been confirmed by events throughout Africa. It will be of no use to the hon. member for Bezuidenhout to say, as he did at the Transvaal Congress when he discussed these matters—

The world is finding out that this cannot be done. That was shown by Nigeria.

The U.P. supporters, too.

Yes, I am sure that if the U.P. supporters are at all susceptible to reason, they, too, will realize that. A federation could not even exist in Nigeria, which was a federation and which was not composed of Whites and non-Whites, but only of non-Whites who were members of various ethnic groups and religions. I want to agree with the hon. member for Bezuidenhout: Let us stop trying once and for all to coax the so-called world opinion into believing that we in South Africa are prepared to accommodate their demands. Let us not only do what we know to be right in South Africa, but also what we know to be right in terms of the whole pattern of existence in Africa as it has become apparent in recent years, and then we shall not only be able to be honest to ourselves, but also to the world. In doing that we shall, by means of those very events that are taking place at present, not only persuade the world to adopt a casual and temporary favourable attitude in some tactical situation or other, but also bring about a truly sound understanding of South Africa as a result of the attitude we adopt in regard to these matters. In the long run that will mean much more to us than some or other minor tactical manoeuvre by means of which we may perhaps profit in some or other specific situation.

We shall not be able to satisfy U.N.O. That we do know. We know that from the report of the U.N.O. Myrdal Commission of a few years ago, in which they even rejected the United Party’s policy entirely, and in which they even rejected the Progressive Party’s policy entirely. To remind the hon. member, just allow me to read out what they said—

[Time expired.]

I can very easily cross swords with the hon. member, but it appears to me that he is more pre-occupied with foreign affairs than with State information. I do not think that we can elaborate on the federation idea under this Vote. I just want to tell him that he is making the mistake of generalizing by assuming that, if one federation has failed, the federal system cannot be applied anywhere. There are numerous countries where it has succeeded completely. It does not follow that, if democracy fails in one place, as it did fail in certain Western states, we should reject democracy. Then I may tell the hon. member that Portugal does not have a democracy. It does not work there. It does not work in Spain. It does not always work in France. Must we reject it now? I do not feel like following that sort of argument. As regards the remarks I made at the congress in Johannesburg: I did in fact say there—that I believe—that foreign policy will only succeed if it is attended with a change in our domestic approach to racial matters. The hon. member said that many things had changed in the world. I do not think that it is our task to discuss the Government’s policy now. Our discussions here should be within the framework of the Government’s policy. But, after all, we are all aware of the fact that, as far as emphasis and presentation of policy are concerned, tremendous changes have taken place. If there is a measure of progress, surely it is precisely what we said all the time, namely that we would become more acceptable if we presented our case better and placed less emphasis on colour. However, I shall leave the matter there. I do not feel like crossing swords with the hon. member for Innesdal in this debate. Let us do so in connection with foreign affairs.

I was dealing with the question of the South Africa Foundation. I wanted to know from the hon. the Minister whether there was any contact between his Department and this Foundation, because it appears to me that there is a great deal of overlapping that may perhaps be avoided. In addition I said that there was a second publication, namely the South African Quiz, about which I can unfortunately not be as flattering as I was about the book on South-West Africa. Firstly, there is no date on the publication. I think that that is always a little unsatisfactory. We have had cases of immigrants complaining that they had been misled in respect of certain facts, such as the cost of living, taxes and assistance in regard to education in South Africa. I do not want to say that they are right; that is not my point. However, it has always been my belief that, when publishing a publication which contains statistics in regard to such matters as the cost of living and taxes, the date should be stated clearly so that people may not gain wrong impressions a few years later. But that was not my main objection. My objection to this publication is that its political section is entirely too contentious for the average tourist to whom this is handed out prior to his going abroad. I think I am right in saying that this booklet is usually given to tourists, with the purpose of helping them, so that when they arrive in countries abroad, they may argue fittingly when questions on South Africa are put to them. I think that one should always guard against—these people are not trained politicians—putting words into their mouths, which if they repeat them, may lead to arguments, and even heated arguments, and often to arguments which they will lose. I want to mention a few examples. For instance, on page 17 I see that it is being said—

That is correct—

That is correct, too—

“First” is printed in italics, no less. I think that it is a very daring statement to say that ours is “the first of all African nationalisms”. That is far too contentious. There is a second statement. The political part of this is important. It is what the tourist needs most. It reads as follows—

If this statement were to be made in Portugal for instance, the person who said so would be laughed to scorn. As a matter of fact, I think the Portuguese would be angry. We may perhaps disagree with their political approach, but we have the example of Mozambique here on our border. Then there is also Angola. They are good allies of ours. There we do in fact have the African personality that cooperates with the Portuguese personality in one political system. The Portuguese are proud of that. That is their main argument at U.N.O., namely that they have a successful multi-racial state. We may think differently, but I do not think that this is the sort of statement we should make if we want to make friends for South Africa. We should not give countries such as Portugal, Mozambique or Angola a slap in the face. At any rate, it is not correct. Nor is it fair. Then we have, for instance, the following statement on the Coloured Council—

Sir, surely we know that we cannot have more than one Parliament in one and the same state. It will have limited powers. Even the previous Prime Minister said so.

I think that it is misleading to give out that we can have an absolutely self-governing Coloured Parliament where the Coloureds would govern themselves in every respect. The same applies to the section on the Indians. In State publications we must be on our guard against what the hon. the Minister of Foreign Affairs called “superficial sloganizing” a short while ago. There are other examples, but I only mentioned these few to point out that.

when we prepare publications for people going abroad, we should not hand out to them booklets which are contentious and which may provoke serious arguments which they could not win if they were to be questioned. This booklet is useful, but I think that there is room for improvement in publications of this nature. I just want to add that the photographs in this booklet are rather dreary. Nowhere is there a trace of sunshine. In most of these photographs the sky is overcast. Even the photograph of the Jan Smuts Airport that was selected for publication in this booklet, depicts the worst and rainiest day one could possibly have selected. In a South African publication it is extremely odd to me that we should find this sombreness and gloom in a book of this nature. These are matters to which I hope the Minister will devote his attention. I just want to know from him whether he can tell us how many of these books were printed and approximately how many of them are being distributed annually amongst tourists leaving this country.

Business suspended at 6.30 p.m. and resumed at 8.05 p.m.

Evening Sitting

Before the adjournment we saw the hon. member for Bezuidenhout in another role, the role of Basson the publisher. In this debate on the Information Vote we have been forced to listen this evening to what I call a new confession in the twilight. It was all about paper back books and hard cover books and something which is associated with that, poor photographs and bad reproductions. To the request to the Minister in regard to how many copies of the South African Quiz appear, I just want to inform the hon. member for the record that on Jan Smuts Airport 100,000 per year are distributed, and a further 100.000 at the passport offices. But to return to the volume Confession in the Twilight, I should very much like, while we are on the subject of books now, to go back a little further into the past and listen to the voices of yesterday and even to the voices of yesteryear. This has a bearing on the hon. member for Bezuidenhout and what he said last year on this Vote. I am quoting briefly from this spectre of yesteryear, where it is stated in column 1943—

Only a few months later films are glossed over, films which were being produced at that time, and publications which were already being planned at that time to wreck the image of South Africa, but this evening it is being announced with the cooing of a turtle dove in, the Confession in the Twilight. It is the spectre of yesteryear. I come now to the spectre of yesterday. It was published in the Argus of the 18th. The dateline is “Worcester, Tuesday”. There the hon. member said—

The “this” is that “the Nationalist Party had subverted the machinery of State and the delimination procedures to keep itself in power. The result was that the United Party with 40 per cent of the votes passed in the last election had only 39 of the 170 seats in the Assembly”. Here, Sir, I should very much like your guidance in regard to the following sentence which was uttered last night at Robertson, in regard to whether it is not a reflection on this House—

Sir, please note, this was said at Robertson last night, but to-night the hon. member has said in the discussion of this Vote that there has been a change in emphasis and presentation of policy, and that is why he is not kicking up a row on this Vote as did the spectre of yesterday which I have just quoted. There has been a change in emphasis and presentation of policy. I should like to know why this change in emphasis and presentation of policy was not mentioned two evenings ago at Robertson, and why the Government was not congratulated on its policy at Robertson as well.

Order! I should like to know what this has to do with the Information Vote.

I am asking who wrecked the image of South Africa abroad so that the Department of Information has had to rectify it at a cost of R3.5 million per annum? A meagre R3.5 million per year is not even as much as what the S.A. Army spends on oil, grease and fuel in one year, according to the latest Estimates. It is not even as much as the Department of Agricultural Technical Services spends per annum* on soil conservation alone. It is not even as much as the R25 million per annum which South Africa spends on advertisements and it is not a part of the Anglo-American Corporation’s profits in this country. With R3.5 million the Government has to present the South African abroad. But I can tell the hon. member for Bezuidenhout that regardless of paper back books he is losing his srutggle abroad. The hon. member said that he had not been abroad for some time. I just want to say that the time has come for the hon. member and Mr. Stanley Uys to pay another visit abroad and have a look at race discrimination in the U.S.A. and Britain and then return and present to us a true picture of racial matters in those countries, so that we can also get that image.

With the visit of the Franklin D. Roosevelt here our Information Department attained another excellent achievement. On 6th November the New York Office of the Information Department presented the American Press very timeously, very objectively and factually with this special edition of News from South Africa. In this edition it is stated very briefly: “Statement on leave cancellation unacceptable”, the comments of our Prime Minister, and “An Unfortunate Incident” of the Leader of the Opposition, and “Press reactions to Carrier’s visit”, and “Comments by F.D.R. Crew Members”. As a result of excellent work done by an excellent Department of Information, this document was distributed very rapidly in America and it was available for comment in leading articles throughout America. Here is the Richmond Times Despatch: “We slap a friend”. Here is the News and Courier of Charlestown: “Sacrificing Safety”. Here is the Chicago Tribune: “Tempest over a fuelling stop”, and “Fischer raps U.S. steps on shore leave”. Here is the Philadelphia Enquirer of the 7th, the day after the Information Department issued the article: “Supreme stupidity”. Here is the Augusta Chronicle: “Needless snub to South Africa”. After that wonderful work which our department has done abroad, I found this in the New York Post: “U.S. Showdown with South Africa called crucial”. That is an example of what our information department has had to quell abroad. I just want to read one paragraph—

[Time expired.]

I think that the request which the hon. member for Bezuidenhout put to me, i.e. that I should give as brief an indication as possible of precisely what work the Department of Information has done this year, is a fair one since the annual report has not yet been laid upon the Table. The hon. members will remember that seven years ago a very high ranking visitor from abroad spoke about the winds of change which were blowing through Africa. I want to state to-night that the winds of progress have caught our sails and that there is a new wind blowing in the outside world in respect of the attitude of people there to South Africa and particularly in respect of the image which those people have of South Africa. Last year we mentioned it very circumspectly in the Annual Report of the Department. But I want to state that this year, and particularly in the past few months, there has been a remarkable change. I am saying this because, in my opinion, it is attributable in the first place to the fact that the Government’s handling of major international questions, such as South West Africa and Rhodesia, was firm, unambiguous and correct.

Closer to U.N.O.I

South Africa, and also Southern Africa, has become established in the eyes of the world as a new entity which has to be taken into account. But in the second instance there was an unfolding of the Government’s declared policy of good neighbourliness with other States in Africa, and more specifically, with the Republic’s more immediate neighbouring states. I want to state that this can be confirmed. I do not want to make any statement which I cannot confirm. In one of the British newspapers, which is certainly not favourably disposed towards us, reference was made on 28th March to the voting in the General Assembly of the United Nations on South West Africa in a leading article under the significant title “South Africa to the Rescue”, and the Guardian wrote as follows—

The newspaper referred to the offer of self-government for Ovamboland and stated—

Then just one further quotation from the British Press, from the Daily Telegraph (translation)—

The Daily Telegraph then went further and stated—

It is significant that this wind of change is now filling our sails and that the South African ship of state can now reach safer anchorage. Even an extreme left-wing newspaper in Germany complained in April this year that conditions within the Republic of South Africa were being described in numerous publications in increasingly friendlier terms. In the U.S.A. the Christian Science Monitor, on 16th March, spoke, with reference to the commercial treaty with Malawi, of a new realism and a policy breakthrough and one of the normally pessimistic contributors to the normally critical publication News Week, wrote as follows (translation)—

These voices which testify to the new turn which I have spoken about, are sometimes to be heard even in unexpected places. One of the important newspapers in the Arabian world, As Safa, of Beirut, on 8th September launched a bitter attack on the representatives of certain African states at the United Nations, and wrote as follows (translation)—

I hope the Opposition is taking cognizance of what hostile newspapers, newspapers which do not support us in any way, have to say about the wonderful progress which is being made in the Republic of South Africa. Against the background of these few pieces of evidence, I would like to say a few words in regard to the part which the Department of Information is playing in the process of improving the image of South Africa abroad. As a result of the Department of Information’s efforts over a considerable number of years, there are today groups of friends of South Africa everywhere which are well-informed and which are also prepared to enter the arena when South Africa’s good name comes under fire or when our country is attacked unfairly. In this regard I want to refer to the recent visit of the American ship, the Franklin D. Roosevelt, to Cape Town. In a radio programme Washington Report, Dr. Walter H. Judd stated on 8th March this year that the policy of the U.S.A. was supposed to rest on moral grounds. He stated further that the fact that South Africa had sent troups to Korea to fight alongside American soldiers and that in general it supported America staunchly in the cold war, apparently made no difference; in the meantime American officialdom was speaking of bridging the gap between America and countries under communist governments which accorded their subjects no basic human rights. “If we are so unrelenting towards South Africa”, said Dr. Judd, “why should we be so amicable towards a communist government?”

Hon. members are also aware of the balanced and thorough survey of John Davenport which appeared in December 1966 in one of the world’s foremost business publications, the American periodical Fortune, which has a circulation of 1,800,000. This was after a visit paid to the Republic of South Africa by Mr. Davenport. After he had made a penetrating analysis of the South West African case, he stated as follows—

I think we should also learn a lesson from what he has to say—

This is a plea that South Africa’s friendship be regained. Frank Johnson, the foreign editor of the Washington Report, after he had visited South Africa, wrote the following in a publication of the American Security Council—

Mr. Chairman, it is unnecessary to elaborate further on this subject. That is why it is one of the tasks of the Department of Information to bring foreign visitors to South Africa, foreign visitors of such a quality and calibre that they will be able to carry the message abroad and acquire the correct objective image of South Africa. In the year of service which has just elapsed the Department of Information entertained 43 persons as full-time guests. Sixteen were from the United States of America and nine from Britain. The others came from Australia, the Netherlands, Belgium, France, Portugal, Italy, Germany and Switzerland.

Did any of these visitors come from other countries in Africa?

No. I can state without fear of contradiction that these visitors who came to our country were all, without exception, deeply impressed by what they saw and experienced here. Some of them were prejudiced when they arrived here and they left South Africa with a new impression of the wonderful growth and progress in the Republic of South Africa and of the correct way in which the various ethnic groups were being treated here in every sphere, politically, culturally, and otherwise. Mr. Chairman, I can mention other examples of what those people had to say, but I do not want to take up the time of the Committee by doing so, except to say that people, after their visit here, wrote private letters to the Department. I prefer not to mention their names because they were private letters, but a veteran correspondent from Washington wrote the following, for example—

A British diplomatic correspondent wrote—

A director of a British television station wrote inter alia—

Then there were also other overseas activities which I can mention. In particular use is being made of accomplished public speakers who address meetings in various countries in the language of that country. Recently a young official of the S.A. Information Service in New York gave a lecture in the series Focus on South Africa at the Wilbur Wright College in Chicago, and I should like to quote what was said of him after he had made his speeches there—

What a wonderful testimonial; what wonderful work these young men are doing overseas! Here is a letter from Australia; one of the members of the Information Service appeared before members of the Methodist Church in Newcastle. I am quoting from a letter which was received after his appearance there. This is what was said—

I should like to avail myself of this opportunity of paying tribute to and expressing my appreciation of this information which is being disseminated and this personal contact which is being made by our offices overseas and the Department at home. I want to pay tribute to those men who are in the front line of battle for South Africa overseas, the men who are in the forefront, as well as the men here in South Africa who have to undertake the necessary planning to send true, objective and factual information overseas. To them I should like to pay tribute and express my appreciation. I do not think we always realize what a brave body of men we have here and what their contribution is to the formation of opinions in their struggle against wrong ideas which have arisen over the years as a result of base propaganda. Our home information service has also been given a major task. Here use is being made of various material, depending upon the level of civilization of each particular group. Amongst the methods which are being used are articles, photographs, films, radio programmes, exhibitions, etc. It is a tremendous task to meet all these requirements here. There are two publications, namely the South African Quiz and the South Africa in fact—Ken u die land? These publications are available at all airports and harbours—200,000 of them. We hope that South Africans going abroad will make use of them. This material which is being placed at the disposal of South Africans going overseas is of inestimable value. The hon. member for Bezuidenhout had certain points of criticism in regard to the South African Quiz. If one wants to go into detail here then it is easy to have a difference of opinion. Nevertheless I think it is a good thing that we should mention those few points which, in our opinion, are over-emphasized, or which are not emphasized enough, or which receive no emphasis at all. We do not want to suggest that these publications are so good that they are above criticism. But, as the hon. member also admitted, these are really valuable pieces of work. What follows now is what a man from Cape Town wrote to us in regard to the South African Quiz after he had returned from an overseas trip—

That is what we want. That is why I want to make an appeal to South Africans going overseas not to leave without these pocket books. The factual material contained therein is of inestimable value. It is the travelling South African who makes the best ambassador and who is best able to put our case abroad, provided he has the necessary knowledge at his disposal.

Then, of course, it is also the function of my Department to supply information to the various population groups here in South Africa. In this respect my Department is rendering an auxiliary service to other Government Departments which are implementing the policy of the country—Bantu Administration and Development, Coloured Affairs and Indian Affairs. The finest co-operation exists between the Departments in question. The Departments in question state their requirements to us and my Department endeavours to meet them. By means of films we are achieving great success amongst Bantu audiences. From 1st April of last year to 31st March of this year 1,878 film shows were given for Bantu audiences. All these film shows were well attended. Here the written word perhaps has slightly less effect than the image, particularly the image conveyed by means of films and photo-stories. Of course we have not neglected the written word. The Department of Bantu Administration publishes seven monthly periodicals in the principal Bantu languages as well as two little newspapers—one in Zulu and one in Xhosa. The joint circulation of these publications has already exceeded the 200,000 mark per month. In South West Africa three periodicals are published in Ovambo, Herero and Nama, as well as a newspaper in the Ovambo language. These newspapers have already reached a circulation of 65,000 a month.

Hon. members are acquainted with our publications. Altogether there are 21 publications which appear regularly and are presented in English, Afrikaans and in the principal Bantu languages current in South Africa and in South West Africa. Fifteen publications appear abroad which are regularly published in most modern languages of Western Europe. Our prestige publication, the S. A. Panorama, is published in English and Afrikaans at home and in Dutch and French abroad. That this particular publication is maintaining a high standard of excellence and is serving a good purpose is confirmed by unsolicited testimonials from the public which we have received from all quarters. I will not weary this House with details, although I have quite a few examples here. I want to content myself with saying that the prestige publication, S.A. Panorama, has a good reputation in Western Europe where it is being distributed, as well as here in South Africa. The circulation of the South African Quiz in its modernized form, this year reached the one million mark. It is available in eight languaegs—English, French, German, Italian, Portuguese, Dutch and Swedish. During the past year the Department has made it its aim to make its publications available overseas in as many languages as possible.

I need not say anything further about films. Hon. members have been afforded the opportunity of seeing these films and of reading the favourable comment in the local Press. This task is being proceeded with. We have the co-operation of film companies. I find it a pity that the hon. member for Bezuidenhout spoke rather derogatively of these films by saying that the photography was very good, with which statement he actually wanted to imply that the content of the films were not as good. These films were in the first instance made for overseas consumption and the comment which we have received from abroad is also very favourable. It has been said that these pictures, particularly the River of Diamonds, are so informative that people have made a great fuss of them. Without trying to make propaganda for my Department I want to make the factual statement that in my opinion all of us who are South Africans ought to be grateful and ought to have a much greater appreciation for the new image of our country which this work has established—and that with the small amount of R3½ million. In that way we have succeeded in making people realize that South Africa is in reality a civilized, Western country, a country which forms part of Western civilization, and that everything which we are doing here, is being done to ensure justice for all, and that the progress economically in our country has been phenomenal. All of us ought to have a great deal of appreciation for this wonderful work and that is why I hope that what is still going to be said in this Chamber will be of an appreciative nature, and if that is not possible, that it will at least be fair criticism of aspects in regard to which it is felt that we can still do better.

I wanted to rise even earlier, and I would have risen if I had the opportunity to do so, to contribute my share in complimenting the Department on the good work it is doing now that it is becoming mature, settling on a course and getting into its stride. I want to compliment the Department on its work in spite of what the hon. the Minister has just said, to which I shall come back later. I think the Department is succeeding progressively in changing the image of South Africa abroad. That is a great achievement. I am disappointed with the mediocre contribution the hon. the Minister made to this debate. He let fly and for almost half his speech he spoke about matters which I, expected the Minister of Foreign Affairs would speak on. For example: He spoke about the progress of the Republic in terms of the new entity which is unfolding here, in terms of the new approach to African states, in terms of the trade agreement with Malawi, of self-government for Ovamboland. In the process he quoted the Press from all over the world —with the exception of the Press in South Africa, particularly his party’s newspapers. He quoted from a publication which had supposedly said, “African states may have no choice but to become satellites of South Africa”. He referred to the visit of the Franklin D. Roosevelt and to what Dr. Judd had said in that connection. He quoted from an article in Fortune in which a plea was made for regaining the friendship of South Africa. He told us about the 43 visitors to South Africa, visitors received by his Department. Among them was the director of television in the United Kingdom, who after his visit here said, according to the Minister, that his views on South Africa had changed so much as a result of his visit. At this point I should perhaps tell the Minister that if we had television in South Africa it would perhaps have been possible to change the image of South Africa long ago. I do not want to deal at any length with what the hon. member for Pretoria (District), who spoke before the hon. the Minister, had to say. That hon. member referred scornfully to the R3i million in the Estimates in respect of the Department of Information. That has proved once again with what contempt hon. members on the opposite side deal with an item in these Estimates. He said scornfully that this appropriation was less than the cost of oil and grease for the Defence Force. But I think the hon. member knows very little about the Information Service, and I would rather leave him there.

I should like to deal with the Information Vote under three heads: Firstly, representation through information officers in the various countries; secondly, the material used by us for both overseas and local consumption; and thirdly, our advertising campaign, both locally and abroad.

In speaking of our representation locally and abroad, I should like to bring it to the hon. the Minister’s notice that we have 79 senior grade professional officers in South Africa. I know why that is the case. The Minister said—and we know that—that the material for distribution throughout the world is prepared here in our country. That may be the reason why the establishment is so large. But then I want to mention that in respect of the entire outside world as such we have only 28 information officers stationed at our various offices, and of this number eight, for example, are stationed in the U.S.A. I want to go further and try to analyse the functions of our information officers where they serve abroad. With a view to our foreign trade, with a view to our image in the outside world, with a view to attracting tourists—who constitute one of our major sources of foreign exchange—in recruiting immigrants, our information officers perform their functions wherever they are stationed, throughout the world. If we analyse our trade relations, particularly as regards our trade partners, we find that 29.9 per cent of our trade is conducted with Great Britain, 25 per cent with Europe and only 8.6 per cent with the U.S.A. Having regard to these figures, I want to suggest that we may have too many information officers in the U.S.A. We neither trade with the U.S.A. on a very large scale, nor do we attract many tourists from that country. On the other hand, there are countries in Europe —including England—to whom we may perhaps pay more attention in the form of greater information representation.

I have now discussed the functions of our representatives abroad, who have to correct the image of South Africa there, and now I want to speak of some of the Department’s publications, publications which I now have before me and which were mentioned by the hon. the Minister. Here before me I have a whole series of fine publications. Some of them are printed on glossy paper, they are very well printed, and they are attractively printed. Before me I have the Transkei, Die Beelde, Cate and Opportunities for the Coloureds. I admit that some of these are prepared and published by the Information Bureau, whereas others are prepared and published by the Information Bureau in co-operation with some other department. I want to make the statement that it is an achievement for any country to have such fine publications. But then I want to ask the Minister right away: Where are they circulated; for what consumption are they intended? We spend so much money on these publications and yet they are intended exclusively for local consumption. Where some of them do go to overseas countries, only a few copies can go there and then only to a few countries. I want to make the statement that too much attention may be perhaps given to the prestige publication—although this aspect should in fact enjoy some attention. The hon. member for Bezuidenhout spoke about hard-covered books. It is my contention that all these publications are most attractive. I am looking, for example, at The Pillars of the South African Economy, etc. But these publications enjoy a virtually exclusively local consumption. Where else would the reading public be? Surely we are not able to distribute an expensive publication such as this everywhere in the world. If we send copies they will be for sale on the newspaper stands of Rome, Zurich and all over the world. Will anybody buy them?

Then I want to discuss these small publications. With regard to these publications I want to say that I have travelled a great deal in the company of businessmen and of ordinary people, all over the world. When I get off at an airport I go to the news stand at the airport to see what reading matter I can buy on that particular country and also on other countries, because in a short while I may continue my journey and I should like to have something to read. Well, I say that this is wonderful material for foreign consumption. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I want to express my gratitude for the more sensible attitude we have seen to-night in this debate on the Information Vote. I am grateful that we have an opportunity to talk constructively on this matter, and that both sides of the House can join in discussing a matter which is of very great importance to South Africa. The hon. member who has just sat down spoke about our five information officers in the U.S.A. We know that the five officers are stationed at the following places: One in New York, one at the U.N., also in New York, one in Washington, one in San Francisco and one in New Orleans. Personally I think that this number is still too small for a country as large as the U.S.A. In my view we should give even more attention to the South Western U.S.A. I would therefore like to plead that we should also create a post of our information service in Los Angeles. Los Angeles is at present the second largest city in the U.S.A. Moreover, Los Angeles is the largest city of the richest of the 50 states comprising the U.S.A. It is also said that within a few years Los Angeles will surpass New York in numbers. It is a city which is growing by 268,000 inhabitants a year. Furthermore, Los Angeles is actually the centre of the aircraft industry in America as well as the centre of the electronics industry, and it also has a great deal to do with America’s space projects. In other words: It is a most important city. In view of the fact that the balance of power is shifting from the North East to the South West, I would rather plead—in contrast with the hon. member who has just sat down—for another post in America. While pleading for that, I also want to plead for a post in South America. We know that we have built up new contacts with those southern states. We know that our Minister of Foreign Affairs paid a most fruitful visit to certain South American States last year, and that the visit yielded good fruits for South Africa. In the first place we have instituted a new air service to those countries, and we have also received a trade mission from Brazil. I therefore feel that now that we have formed these new ties, it is most important that we should create at least one or two additional posts in such a large Continent, to disseminate the image of South Africa.

I want to tell the hon. member for East London (City) that tourism is not the task of the Information Service, but in fact the task of the Tourist Corporation. But I want to associate myself with what the hon. member said and say that we are very grateful for the very great work performed by our information officers. The hon. the Minister quoted certain articles, and in congratulating our officers on their good work, I also want to read two quotations. They are few in number, but they are nevertheless performing a tremendous service for us abroad. Here I have a newspaper report on the speech made recently by Dr. Vernon McKay. There are hon. members in this House who know him very well. He is the director of Africa Studies at the John Hopkins University. I quote from the newspaper report (translation)—

Thus he continued pointing out what success our information service was achieving. Here I have an extract from an article written by Colin and Margaret Legum, who formerly lived in South Africa and who said the following—

Thus they continued pointing out what great success the Department of Information was achieving in its work. We want to congratulate the Minister and his staff on that, because a great deal of the work is done locally, and we also want to congratulate the handful of people who defend their fatherland abroad, because I know that it demands great courage to do that work if one has many against you.

I should also like to say how pleased I am that the Minister intends undertaking an extensive journey abroad. I also want to ask that the Minister should study the position abroad, and in particular should take note of the matter for which I have pleaded in the House on previous occasions and for which I want to plead again to-night, namely that we should make more use of our South African citizens. We bring people from other countries to South Africa, but I also think our people should take something of our country with them to the outside world. I have observed that this small number of officers are performing a great task, but they are mostly journalists and young people, and although they perform very good work, they actually find it hard to penetrate to certain circles; I therefore want to plead that we should make greater use of South Africans to make contact with the world in various spheres and on various levels. My plea is that we should use academics to talk to academics, for example, and students to talk to students, businessmen to talk to businessmen, lawyers to talk to lawyers, farmers to talk to farmers, etc. In other words, we would have people speaking the same language. We should use those people to present South Africa’s case abroad. I am convinced that if we did that, we would actually achieve greater success than we are achieving at present. We have another problem, particularly in connection with America, which is such a large country, and this is perhaps also a matter to which the Minister may give his attention, namely the question of how one can channelize the mighty goodwill prevailing in America in such a way that it will exert an influence in the policy-shaping quarters in America. This may also be the case in other countries, but I can speak more specifically on the U.S.A. How can one channelize the goodwill towards South Africa— and there is a great deal of goodwill towards South Africa—in order that its influence may prevail in the policy-shaping quarters in the U.S.A.? I should like to wish the hon. the Minister great success on his tour. We are living in times in which the image of South Africa is changing most favourably. Many circumstances have contributed to this. Our Information Service has also contributed to it. I think this is a very good opportunity to strike and to make the best use of the changed image of South Africa in the world abroad, and to exploit it for the benefit of South Africa.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Pretoria (West) has made a plea for the appointment of an additional information officer in America, and namely in Los Angeles. I can quite readily support that plea. The plea I was making when my time ran out, was that we should have more information officers abroad. I mentioned the three aims, namely to expand our trade, to expand our tourism and to attract immigrants to our country. The hon. member for Pretoria (West) said that we had a Tourist Corporation and a Department of Immigration to do that work. I may assure the hon. member for Pretoria (West) and the Minister that immigration, tourism and trade are all three mainly dependent on the work done by the Department of Information. Surely this goes without saying if we can do the extension work in another country and can present our country’s image in a favourable light and can tell them what our country has to offer. That brings me back to the publications of which I spoke and which I showed to the Minister. We have at last come to the point where we do not only hear what the Kruger National Park has to offer and about the beautiful huts one finds in the Transkei. We now hear “South Africa, export country”, “South Africa, land of investment”, “South Africa, with its industrial development” and “South Africa in fact”. I may quote from each one of them. This is the kind of reading matter a citizen will pick up at a newspaper kiosk in his own country, and which a citizen of another country will also pick up, because it is brief and to the point. He can read it quickly. It gives him a mass of information in connection with a country. It excites his curiosity. If he wants to travel and become a tourist or if he wants to emigrate, he will also have that country in mind. As regards South African Quiz, of which the hon. the Minister spoke, it is not an extra ordinary book to publish. This kind of book is published in many countries. There is an epitomized encyclopaedia in respect of any country. One is called Know your country, and another one Know South Africa. One may say South African Quiz, and another one This is Australia. They are all on these lines. They contain epitomized, concentrated information in respect of any country. As the hon. member for Bezuidenhout said, it is a good publication. I agree with the Minister that it should be carried by any person who leaves the country, because then he would have concentrated information in his pocket, much of which he may perhaps not even know. This does not mean that I agree with everything in this book. The point made by the hon. member for Bezuidenhout is correct. Although it is well-printed, the photography offered here is not too wonderful, with the exception of the last page, on which the protea is so beautifully depicted. Nor do I agree with many of the statements made here, particularly the political statements. But I agree wholeheartedly with the factual information offered here with regard to the country’s economy, with regard to its progress, with regard to its industrialization, with regard to its investment possibilities, with regard to its geography, and with regard to so many things dealt with here. In itself it is an excellent publication. I wish it could be expanded even further, in order that it may cover even more information, if it were not for the fact that it would become too bulky.

The Minister dealt at some length with the publication S.A. Panorama. That brings me to questions I should like to put to him. Its publications cost is R243,000. I am inclined to disagree with the hon. the Minister when he speaks of this prestige publication of ours which, I think, is distributed in eight languages and in many countries. In my opinion, and in the opinions of many other readers of Panorama, the quality of Panorama has in actual fact declined over the past two years. I should like to mention my points of criticism to the persons involved in the publication of Panorama, but I do not have the time to do so now. In my view the quality of the reading matter and photography in Panorama has in actual fact declined, but we nevertheless think it is a good publication.

I said a moment ago that my third point would relate to advertising. In the past there has been criticism on our advertising overseas. It has been suggested that it was not well-prepared, that we did not always see to it that we received editorial comment favourable to South Africa, while we spent a great deal of money on publicity. I find that the presentation has improved in recent years, and that the advertisements are of a high quality and that we also receive favourable editiorial comment, and a great deal of that, from publications in which we advertise.

You know, Mr. Chairman, it is a matter of etiquette among the periodicals and newspapers that if one places many advertisements with them, one may expect favourable editorial comment. If they are not prepared to give that, one does not place the advertisement with them. In particular I want to mention an advertisement which appeared in the Week-end Telegram, which has the enormous circulation of upwards of 14 million in Britain and Europe. The advertisement reads: “Justice sneaks on behalf of South West Africa.” I think that if ever there was an advertisement which enhanced the name of a country, which presented its image truthfully and factually to the world, which was read in many languages, which dealt with the court’s judgment objectively and in an unprejudiced fashion, which was untinged by some political motive or anything of the kind, it was this advertisement. It was of a high quality and was published at a price which was not exorbitant. I think this is the kind of advertisement of which we always spoke. If we want to advertise in overseas periodicals and newspapers, we have to see to it that our advertisements are of such a nature that they convey the image of South Africa and show what this country can do and offer through its wealth, its industries, its civilization, etc. We should “Soft-pedal” somewhat with regard to what we advertised so frequently in the past, namely the game, the aloes and the bee-hive huts. We should present our advertisements more factually, as we are presenting them, or we should present them with reference to certain points which are presently burning questions, on which the whole world is criticizing us. If we can place advertisements of this nature, we place advertisements which are a credit to this Department and which will really change the country’s image.

The hon. member

for East London (City) said that in certain cases the hon. the Minister spoke on foreign affairs and not on State information. All the Minister did, however, was to deal with the image which has been created abroad as a result of the fine State information service we have.

There was a time when there was no need to have an information service. But during the nineteenth century, with the rise of democracy, the people became sovereign and it was no longer the king that was sovereign, and consequently it became necessary to get through to the people to gain their goodwill for certain purposes. That is where propaganda comes from. Propaganda is nothing but a war of propaganda against propaganda, and in the cold war that is being waged we must also play our part and do our very utmost in that regard. It is highly desirable that our information officers, whom we congratulate on the results they have achieved, should be properly trained in the same way as our future diplomats are properly trained for that purpose. I therefore want to suggest that special attention should be given to this, so that the future information officers may also be prepared and trained properly.

Then the hon. member for Pretoria (West) said something here which I had wanted to say. He took the wind out of my sails a little. What I had wanted to say was that certain people should go overseas to discuss conditions in South Africa with congenial spirits there. But I think it is also desirable that more Ministers should go overseas, as the hon. the Minister of Education is going to do now, but more particularly with the object of addressing gatherings of eminent people there and of disseminating the necessary information. It would be a very good thing if members of Parliament too, could go overseas to give people there first-hand information.

It would also be a good thing if more interesting books on conditions in South Africa or apropos of conditions in South Africa or on the history of South Africa could be published in order to create an attractive image abroad in that way. In another debate here to-day we were told what English-speaking teachers have done or are still doing for South Africa. Here is an opportunity for English-speaking authors in South Africa to write a good novel or a number of good novels about South Africa to present these things which are being done and have been done in South Africa to the world in an attractive form. These novels could then be translated from English into other languages.

I feel I should sympathize with the hon. member for Kempton Park. I do not think he was really ready to take part in this debate. I saw a great look of surprise on his face when the hon. Whip on the other side called upon him, and I feel I should express our sympathy.

I, wish to raise a matter with the hon. the Minister which I raised last year on this Vote, dealing with the use of television by the Information Department. I made the point last year that this was a mass medium which lay ready to the hand of South Africa, with an almost captive audience.

What?

A captive audience. I know it is a very lofty concept for the hon. member to understand We have a television audience which is prepared to accept almost anything that is put across. We have had certain arguments from the hon. member from Pretoria (West) which in effect strengthen my case, because he quoted from a newspaper which remarked on the assiduity of the South African information officials, who were quick to make official protests and denials of material which appeared on the television programmes in the United States and in Europe. But we ourselves are denied the opportunity of putting across the truth on these very same television programmes which get into the hearts and the minds of the people overseas by means of “the little black box”. I believe that it is vitally important for South Africa at this stage to make a breakthrough to the thought of the mass of the people in Western countries. I made this point last year. The hon. Minister replied to me that it is too expensive. But I ask, seriously: Is it too expensive if we know that we can make a success of it? Is it not too expensive not to do it at a time like this, when the whole future of Africa depends on our gaining acceptance in the Western world, and where we have a means at hand of doing it? The captive audience to which I referred, people who watch television regularly, amount to some 40 million people.

How are we ever going to pay for a newspaper article or advertisements or any other means of propaganda that lie ready to the hands of the Department of Information which will get across to 40 million people the reality of what is happening in South Africa? If the expenses are really so terrifying, why is it not possible for us to use something which is used by many other organizations, and that is to invite sponsors? We could invite big firms who do a lot of business with South Africa … [Interjection.] Sir, I am making a suggestion which I think the Minister might well follow up. This is a regular commercial practice followed overseas. Why is it that we in this country refuse point blank to consider the use of the medium of television, which is one of the most potent educational forces overseas to-day? What we have to do, and I believe it is the task of this Department, is to put across the impression of South Africa as a modern industrial country.

We have the Department of Tourism, which has an interest in attracting people here, and one of the means they use is films which show South Africa as the land of the Lion and show the beautiful sun-bathed blondes reclining on our beaches. I am all in favour of sun-bathed blondes … [Interjections] … but I believe we have to put across the image of South Africa as a modern industrial state which is ready to accept investment and which will give a good return. If you get a city like Johannesburg, for instance, why is it not possible for such a city, which is looking for overseas investment, to participate in a venture of this nature? Because they will show a profit on it. If we attract people to establish factories here, they will show a profit, and I believe it is part of the duty of this Department to undertake the political enlightenment of the Western world about South Africa, because what we, the white people in this country, are doing is right. We may differ about the means we adopt to achieve it, and we have some very profound differences in that respect, but the white race as a whole is making a profound contribution to the development of Africa, and what we are doing as a white race is the right thing. [Interjection.] Surely it is the first duty of this Department to get this across to the people overseas in the Western world who are our allies, or ought to be our allies, and to tell them about the importance of what we are doing. They ought to be our allies but are not, in some cases, because they do not know what we are doing, and it is significant that the penetration that has been made in the last few days has been as the result of the adoption of the policy of this side of the House.

I believe it is the duty of this Department to put it across overseas that this is a stable industrial country, and when they have put that across we can tell them something else as well. But the point that has to be put across is that there is stability in South Africa, and that only on stability can the future of the Bantu people be built, and that is what we Whites are ensuring because we are here. I believe it can be done in this way, and to say that it is too expensive, I believe is a negative approach. I am sure that means can be found to put across the positive message of what the white man is doing in South Africa. I repeat the plea I made to the Minister last year, to reconsider this matter and to see whether means cannot be found to get into the minds of the people overseas. They are a compulsive audience. They listen and they watch television almost compulsively, and if it is possible to get our message across by that medium we can make positive strides forward and reach the sort of person we can never reach by any other means.

I may as well begin with the hon. member who has just sat down. I want to tell him that our brochures and our films show unequivocally that South Africa is a very modern industrial country. I want to mention five of them—

This is one point. Secondly, we do not use only these films but also television. All documentary films are also provided with soundtracks. I may give the hon. member the assurance that several of these films appear on television in England and America. We bring these aspects home to those countries, and now to a larger extent. There is so much interest in South Africa that this can be done.

Some of them do so on a commercial basis. [Interjections.] Here is one of the South Africans, for example, a certain Mr. Engelbrecht, who says in the Transvaler of 24th March, that he recently watched the television service of the B.B.C., and he says the following (translation)—

These things are done, and the hon. member may rest assured that it is going well.

The hon. member for East London (City) was just making a fine speech when he spoiled it once again. He was speaking so well on the beautiful brochures published by us, and then he suddenly asked: What is the consumption? In my introductory observations I said that it was not intended exclusively for domestic consumption. I made it clear that those publications are distributed abroad in large numbers, and that some of them are published in seven languages. The hon. member is thinking of the South African publications. He asked me what the consumption was and I am now telling him what it is; it is not only for domestic consumption. The beautiful things he commended are also obtainable abroad and are distributed in the languages of the respective countries. We have publications in French, German, Netherlands, Spanish and Italian. Surely we cannot distribute them here in those languages, for who would read them? The hon. member for East London (City) wanted to know from me what the functions of the officers were. They establish contact with persons who have policy-shaping opinions, they make speeches, they give film shows, they employ the written word and they reply to Press articles. They do everything possible to present our image in the correct perspective. The U.S.A. is such a large country, and I think the hon. member for Pretoria (West) gave a good reply to that, and the hon. member for East London (City) supported him in that. With regard to the last suggestion made by the hon. member for Pretoria (West), that we should have an official in South America as well, I shall certainly give attention to that during my proposed visit. We are already considering one for South America, and we shall also give attention to Los Angeles. I may just say that the main problem is funds, otherwise they would have been more widely distributed throughout the world. I hope we shall obtain increasingly more funds.

The hon. member for Pretoria (West) also said that we should make more use of South Africans abroad. I am already investigating that possibility. Funds remain an important factor, of course, but I agree with him that if we can do that we shall derive great benefit from it, by sending some of our own people there as well.

I still owe the hon. member for Bezuidenhout some replies. He asked why the amount in respect of publications had risen so high, R138,000 more. I may just say that in November, 1965, the total circulation of all our publications was 245,000 and in November, 1966, it was 334,000, an increase of 88,800. There are. therefore, higher and more expenditure and more copies of the various editions, which increases the cost. Then there are also two additional Bantu newspapers which are published in Xhosa and Zulu. Those are the reasons for the increase. The hon. member pleaded fervently for hard-cover bindings. The difference in price is not as small as suggested by the hon. member. According to my information it makes a tremendous difference, particularly if we begin to speak of expenditure in terms of millions. If we have to sell an impression of millions, it makes a very large difference. But I agree with the hon. member, because I am averse to paperbacks. They make an impression they ought not to make, but on the other hand we cannot bind a publication in a hard cover if it is factual in nature and changes constantly and has to be reprinted again. In that respect one has to be contented with the second best. I may just say that when we publish good publications such as the one on South-West Africa, which is and will always remain a standard work, we bind them in hard covers.

I must just tell the hon. member for East London (City) one thing more. He is of the opinion that Panorama is not such a wonderful publication any more. Taste differs, of course, but here I have the prestige edition of the S.A. Panorama, and it maintains such a high standard that we received the following letter from a member of the public—

I think the hon. member will bow to the superior knowledge of an old Fleet Street journalist. A prominent liaison officer writes as follows—

Thus I could continue. The hon. member for Bezuidenhout also wanted to know what our relationship with the Foundation was like. I may just say that it is a fine, excellent relationship. I can assure the hon. member that consultation takes place continually, and that I appreciate the work performed by the Foundation. The assistance of private initiative is most important in the execution of our great task. An appeal has been made here to every overseas tourist that we should all help, and if there is duplication, it is to a minor extent, and we should see to it that the Foundation maintains its status as an independent body. I do not want to interfere with their affairs in the least, nor do we want to try to dictate to them what they should do. I think I have now replied to all the questions.

Vote put and agreed to.

Precedence given to Revenue Votes 41, 19, 13, 14 en 15.

In terms of an arrangement which has been made, Vote No. 19, South Africa House, London, will in future form part of Vote No. 41, Foreign Affairs.

Revenue Votes 41,—“Foreign Affairs, R6,194,000”, and 19,—“South Africa House, London: Administrative Services, R948,000”:

Mr. Chairman, I would like at this stage to make statements on two matters. The first of these deals with South-West Africa. For obvious reasons I do not wish to start a debate on South West Africa, but there are a few aspects of the situation in regard to that territory on which I should like to comment briefly.

The origin of the present emotional storm among the majority of the United Nations is an interesting subject to study. Clearly the recent judgment of the International Court did not fit in with the ideas, plans and hopes of many. But I do not intend to pursue this to-night. I would rather emphasize in a positive way some important points about which there should in fact be no basic differences of opinion.

Firstly, now that the judgment of the Court has been given, the South African Government has no more intention than it had before that judgment to annex or to absorb South-West Africa. The fact that we have no such intention has been so explicitly and repeatedly stated by us, in various forums, including the United Nations, that there should really be no doubt whatever on this score. It is for each individual population group of South-West Africa to determine its own destiny in the exercise of its right of self-determination. In addition we have repeatedly indicated that we accept that South-West Africa has a separate international identity and character. Anyone who accuses South Africa to-day of imperialistic designs in South-West Africa can only be doing it out of malicious intent because the facts clearly contradict such an allegation.

Secondly, we are continuing to administer South-West Africa in the spirit of the old Mandate. We shall continue to honour the trust which we accepted in terms of that Mandate, in a spirit of guardianship and of responsibility, with equal care for all the population groups.

Adversaries and critics have in this connection accused us of making declarations consisting of empty words, and of ringing an iron curtain around South-West Africa, so as to prevent the outside world from knowing what is going on there. This accusation was always unfounded; but more recent events have contributed towards showing the hollowness of the accusation. I need only refer to our detailed presentation of facts to the International Court, in pleadings and evidence, and our invitation to the Court to inspect the Territory; to our full participation in the debate on South-West Africa at the last session of the General Assembly of the United Nations; to our invitation to heads of mission to visit South-West Africa and to the recent publication of The South-West Africa Survey 1967. Why should we want to hide our actions in South-West Africa, if on being made known they can only redound to our credit, as ought to be so clearly apparent from the South-West Africa Survey 1967? Critics can no longer even plausibly say that South Africa seeks to shield behind technical points of law in order to cover up conditions in South-West Africa.

With regard to the future of the inhabitants of South-West Africa, our impression is that many responsible countries hold a view which in its basic aspects does not in fact differ very much from ours—if only the misunderstandings and distortions could be removed. Our policy in South-West Africa does not derive from some ideology or other which is followed at all costs. It is based rather on the realities of a given situation. The local circumstances which we found in South-West Africa, when we took over the Mandate, had to be taken into account in the formulation of our policies. Our experience in the Republic with its different national groups, including what we have learnt here in pursuing the ideal of peaceful co-existence, has of course been of great value in deciding on the best practical means of tackling problems in South-West Africa. There, too, the population is a multinational one, even more so than in South Africa. And, after a long period of strife between peoples, a pattern for living together has had to be found which would ensure mutual peace, and guarantee development. It is this specific challenge which has shaped our policies for the Territory, not any pre-conceived notions of the nature of a dogma, ideology or creed.

What is happening at present in Southern Africa? As we all know, numerous peoples further north became independent some years ago—in certain instances not in the form of unitary states or territories as previously administered by the Colonial Powers. Recently Lesotho and Botswana, in the exercise of their right of self-determination, have also become independent while Swaziland is on its way. This same pattern we foresee for the nations under our guardianship within the Republic. Just as we respect this right of self-determination for all other peoples, so we respect it in the case of the different population groups in South-West Africa. But what does the right of self-determination mean to a nation if its exercise can be prevented by a numerically superior nation? It is only when the separate identity of each nation is respected and protected, when none live under a threat of domination by others, that the basis is laid for proper development in all fields, such as economic, political, educational, etc. And it is only then that such development can lead to meaningful self-determination for all.

Is this the policy to which the majority of the United Nations object so strongly? On what grounds can it be argued that it would be better for the different national groups to be forced against their will to become immediately one unitary state? Apart from the injustice which would be committed against the minority groups, we cannot sit back and see South-West Africa once again falling into a condition of mutual strife and unrest. Our responsibility to the whole population of South-West Africa precludes us from permitting such a situation to develop—as does our concern and our duty to contribute to the peace, stability and security of the whole of Southern Africa.

In these circumstances I repeat that one often wonders what those pursuing the present campaign against the Republic in regard to South-West Africa actually hope to achieve for the population groups of that Territory— by forcing them from outside to accept a certain policy simply because it suits the wishes of the majority of the United Nations. Most of these United Nations members make no secret of the fact that they prefer the enforcement of so-called independence according to the once popular system applied in so many territories in Africa during the past decade—a system of majority rule within the boundaries of what had happened to be a particular colonial territory, without any or adequate regard to ethnic distinctions. As we know, that system in the vast majority of cases failed so dismally and tragically, leading to bloodshed, refugeeism, misery and military dictatorships or at best, one party dictatorships. Our detractors do not seem to mind in the least what the terrible consequences for the inhabitants of South-West Africa will be if, for example, by mischance, control of the Territory should, through revolutionary upheaval, fall into the hands of communistic inspired and supported elements, like the terrorists about whom the Deputy Minister of Police last week made such startling revelations in this House. Nor do they seem to care about the immense chaos in all spheres of life which must inevitably result from an unwilling withdrawal of South Africa from the Territory and the unparalleled human suffering to which it would give rise.

For it cannot be denied that the standard of living of all the various population groups, as well as their health, prosperity, security and well-being depend very heavily on South Africa. In times of scarcity they have to look to the Republic for food. The C.S.I.R. in Pretoria is engaged in research in order to provide them with life-giving water. They have to rely on the Veterinary Research Institute at Onderstepoort and the Medical Research Institute at Johannesburg, the South African Railways, South Africa’s harbour at Walvis Bay, the South African Airways, South African Posts and Telecommunications, the South African Bureau of Standards, the Weather Bureau and the Electricity Supply Commission, while the Department of Commerce and Industries of the Republic plays a key role in promoting the Territory’s exports. The Department of Mines makes geologists available. The Republic’s Controller and Auditor-General audits the Territory’s accounts. The Territory is served by South African institutions such as the Medical and Dental Council, the Nursing Council, the Department of Health, the South African Institute for Medical Research, the National Council for Social Research and the various agricultural control boards, particularly those concerned with meat and livestock, dairy and maize products. Research directly or indirectly concerned with the Territory is regularly conducted at South African universities. The Industrial Development Corporation provides expert advice and guidance to industrialists in the Territory. I can also mention, though only in passing, the services of a multitude of private South African enterprises in respect of commerce, finance, construction, engineering, architecture, auditing and accounting, legal and many other services which form an integral part of any modern conomy. In short, there is at the disposal of South-West Africa’s economy a highly developed and complex apparatus of scientific, technical, business, professional, educational and other services and facilities, the benefits of which cannot be expressed in terms of money.

And as far as their political advancement is concerned, fear of domination has been removed so that all the peoples can progress towards self-determination. I have therefore said enough to show that apart from the plain illegality of the October resolution of the General Assembly of the U.N., it also lacked any semblance of economic or social worth because it completely ignores the disastrous consequences which would inevitably follow from the course which it sets. It attempts to force upon South Africa a course of action which, far from promoting the progress and wellbeing of the inhabitants of the territory, cannot but destroy many of them, throwing the remainder back into the cruel conditions of the past and bringing untold misery upon all. I must repeat what I said at the U.N. last year: South Africa will be no party to such an act.

My second statement—it is a brief one— deals with the U.N. South Africa, as a founding member which assisted in the creation of the United Nations, has always been prepared to co-operate as far as possible with the Organization. We hope that it will be made possible for us to co-operate in the future. As you can well appreciate, we are not always happy with what is done by the Organization, and we have been particularly concerned about the way in which it has deviated from its original aims. Among other things, we are deeply concerned about the way in which the Secretariat, in spite of the provisions of the Charter, is being used as a propaganda machine against South Africa. Hon. members may remember that the Special Committee on the Policies of Apartheid was established by the United Nations General Assembly in 1962. South Africa stated at the time that it regarded the relevant decision of the General Assembly as illegal in terms of the Charter, and we have continued to regard the Apartheid Committee as an illegal body. This Committee, which is in practice the mouthpiece of the extremists among the African states, as well as the communists, has in the years of its existence in fact achieved nothing concrete. But it often takes the lead in the world-wide propaganda campaign against South Africa, and its main aim has now become to spur on that campaign and, in the process, to obtain as much publicity as possible for itself and its discussions. For these purposes the members of the Committee have over the years made every effort to extend their use of the publicity facilities of the U.N. They have also, from the beginning, tried to involve the Secretariat of the U.N., and even the Secretary-General himself, in the campaign against South Africa. Although at first the Secretariat’s information division (the so-called Office of Public Information or O.P.I., as it is generally known) with some exceptions, maintained in general its neutral position, an important change took place at the end of 1965. The General Assembly, under the influence of the Apartheid Committee, adopted in December of that year a resolution which, inter alia, requested the Secretary-General—

This resolution also requested the Secretary-General—

A further resolution in the same spirit was adopted at the recent session of the General Assembly in December, 1966. The result of this direct request, or rather instruction, by the General Assembly has been an increasing flood of hostile propaganda against South Africa from U.N. sources. This propaganda material is found mostly in the prejudiced reports and extreme recommendations of the Apartheid Committee and is published in the form of pamphlets and also in the monthly U.N. Chronicle and distributed throughout the world in all the official languages of the U.N. I wish to emphasize that these reports and recommendations do not originate with the U.N. as a whole, but only with the 11 members of the Apartheid Committee. They are, however, disseminated in the official publications of the U.N. as though they have the approval of all the members. Nevertheless the General Assembly, in these resolutions, opened the door for the Apartheid Committee and the O.P.I. to besmirch South Africa and incite hostility towards the South African Government. Many members of the U.N. perhaps did not realize that these resolutions would enable the Apartheid Committee so easily to use, for its own ends, the publicity facilities of the Organization—facilities which are maintained by the financial contributions of all member states. The latest example of this sort of propaganda is the March issue of the U.N. Monthly Chronicle, which has been designated as a special issue for the “elimination of racial discrimination”. This issue contains, inter alia, a message from U Thant and a summary of 20 pages of the recent report of UNESCO on apartheid. This extremely prejudiced and one-sided report was prepared by UNESCO at the request of the U.N. Apartheid Committee, but it is not a report of the U.N. itself, and its publication in an official journal of the U.N. with the purpose of attacking a member state, is a flagrant misuse of the facilities financed by the organization as a whole,

Another aspect of this development is the role of the Secretariat, which ought to maintain a neutral attitude and should not be placed in the position where it is able, or even compelled to participate in a hostile campaign against a member state. I have already spoken of the misuse of the O.P.I. in order to publish propaganda against South Africa. But there has recently been created (in terms of a resolution of the last session of the General Assembly) a special section in the political division of the Secretariat, to handle matters in connection with the Apartheid question. In fact this special section is known as the Apartheid Unit, and it was obviously created simply to assist the Apartheid Committee in its campaign against South Africa. And we have a strong suspicion that this assistance goes far beyond the normal secretarial requirements of a U.N. committee. These developments are progressively involving the Secretariat in a political struggle against a member state of the U.N. In some cases the persons concerned are perhaps not unwilling to be so involved, but it is nevertheless a serious departure from the high standards which in past times were expected of international civil servants.

An important aspect of this matter is the cost of this campaign against South Africa—a cost which has to be borne by all members of the U.N., including South Africa. We have recently had the example of the United Nations Commission on Human Rights, which, at the request of the Apartheid Committee, spent a good deal of its annual session on South Africa’s internal affairs. Noteworthy was the decision to organize a publicity campaign in connection with the treatment of so-called political prisoners in South Africa and the alleged conditions in South African prisons. The Commission also appointed a group of experts to investigate these conditions. I may in due course come back to the question of principle. At this point I wish to deal only with the financial aspects. According to the Secretariat’s estimate the cost to the U.N. of this five-member group of experts will exceed 300,000 dollars, and publicity costs will come to another 20,000 dollars. The costs involved did, however, not deter the majority of the Commission, and they pushed through their prejudiced and malicious proposals in spite of the U.N. present financial position. This precarious financial position is in fact to a large degree the result of the lack of responsibility in the case of many members whose contributions constitute a very small percentage of the U.N. budget. The 51 smallest contributors are actually responsible for a mere 2.04 per cent of the total U.N. budget. In terms of Article 17 of the U.N. Charter, each member state is obliged to pay its share of the regular budget of the U.N., as assessed by the General Assembly. South Africa has always been prepared to honour this obligation. Even though we had not supported all the decisions which led to the various expenditures, we have nevertheless regularly paid our annual contributions. But the presumption behind this obligation on members is that funds will be voted in accordance with the purposes and principles of the Charter. Obviously the financing of blatant interference in the domestic affairs of a member state cannot be reconciled with these provisions.

Clearly South Africa cannot accept this position. Protests have accordingly been lodged through our permanent Representative and as early as 1965 I interviewed the Secretary-General and strongly protested against the growing tendency of spreading of propaganda, and distorted propaganda at that, against a member state. But the protests were in vain and as I have indicated, the flow of propaganda increased.

I feel that the time has come to take the matter further. I am therefore considering what action to advise the Government to take, financially or otherwise, in order to dissociate South Africa from these activities and to impress on the more responsible member states, the serious dangers inherent in this illegal development. For it can certainly not be expected of any state to continue bearing part of the costs of a hostile campaign against itself. Any action which might be decided on, on our part, would of course not affect our willingness, as always, to pay our share of the lawful expenditure of the U.N.

Mr. Chairman, I should appreciate the privilege of the half hour. The hon. Leader of the Opposition has already made it clear where the Opposition stands in respect of the latest developments at the U.N. The party on this side regards the resolution terminating South Africa’s mandate over S.W.A. as unconstitutional and illegal, and this applies of course to what flows from it. Of course, that does not mean that what is happening there is something which we in South Africa can ignore, and therefore we welcome the fact that the hon. the Minister, virtually addressing the U.N. more than this Committee to-night, again put his Government’s policy in regard to S.W.A. in its proper perspective. The Minister went further. He stated that he was considering what action to take in respect of our financial contributions to the U.N. Now, let me say quite emphatically that we are completely in agreement that the U.N. and its Secretariat should adhere strictly to the rules of the Organization and that the rules should apply in equal measure to all. That is where we stand and naturally, while the Minister is only now considering what steps to take, our further comments will be reserved until such time as he makes it clear exactly what steps he has in mind.

In essence the Minister underlined to-night what he told the U.N. when he personally addressed them on the 12th October of last year. It was a very important speech, so I had a fresh look at it, and I should like to check with the Minister whether we understand the Government’s policy in S.W.A. correctly. Let me first say that it is not our intention to have a prolonged debate on S.W.A., but for what might follow abroad I think that it is essential that there should be honest understanding of aims and intentions between Government and Opposition. On top of that we have a few points of positive advice to offer to the Government and to the Minister, and after that we will go over to other matters.

From the Minister’s statement at the U.N. last year I believe it would be fair to summarize the policy of the Government in respect of S.W.A. as follows. In the first place the Government regards S.W.A. as a territory “with a separate international status”.

No, not “status”.

The Minister used the term “status” twice in his speech at the U.N. So if there is now a discrepancy between his statement at the U.N. and the one here—let us have the explanation. I am quoting from his statement at the U.N.: As a first point the Government regards S.W.A. as “a territory with a separate international status”. Secondly: That there is “nothing in the policy of the Government” which “in any way amounts to the incorporation of the Territory” —the Minister used the words “annexed or absorbed” to-night too—or to interference with its “separate international identity”. The third principle the Government enunciated was that the territory consists of peoples with diverse interests and aspirations. The fourth point was that apart from their material development, the Government will in each case, in the case of each group, create machinery for self-expression for the various groups. Fifthly, that its policy of separate development must not be seen as rigid dogma—and that the Minister repeated to-night—but purely as a matter of method—and nothing more—and that this method is indeed open for debate and for further dialogue. Sixthly: The ultimate aim is one of political emancipation for all, but there is no “predetermined pattern” for the peoples as a whole. Each group will be given the opportunity to speak for itself in respect of the kind of citizenship it desires and “as to its relationship with any of the other groups”. There is some difference between this and the statement made during the debate on the Prime Minister’s Vote by the hon. the Deputy Minister for South-West Africa Affairs. The Minister in his statement to the U.N. made it clear that at the point of self-determination it would be open for any group concerned to decide what relationship it desires with any other group or groups. Finally: The Government has nothing to hide and will provide proper information about all its actions and intentions. I think this is a fair summary, based on the declaration made last year by the Minister at the U.N., of how we see the present policy of the Government. And against this background we shall judge the Government’s activities as they unfold.

A few weeks ago there was, in the first place, the announcement in respect of the Ovambo peoples. In our view this announcement amounted to little more than a modernization of the machinery of administration and of self-expression. The future was left an open question. In the words of the Minister no “predetermined pattern” was established. Therefore the Leader of the Opposition had no hesitation in stating that we had no objection at all to the statement made, or the principle underlying the statement made by the Minister of Bantu Administration. The only advice that we should like to give the Minister is: we think the Government is a bit too fond of drama. Drama has its place in politics. But I say again the Government is a bit too fond of drama. Because dramatic announcements, shock announcements, more often than not lead to ill-considered reactions. They often tend to have the opposite effect to what they were intended to have. It so happens that every time a member of the U.N., or a group of members, is placed in the position of having to react on first impressions, they invariably commit themselves to a position from which they cannot depart without serious loss of face. I think this is something we should always try to avoid. Because I am afraid that in the case of the Ovamboland announcement by the Minister the impression was created— even though that was not intended—that here was a sort of unilateral independence. The Government had already made its policy clear, it stated very clearly what it was going to do in S.W.A., the statement was made at the right place—at the U.N.— and I think that, as far as any developments are concerned flowing from the stated policy of the Government, it would be far better for the Government to stick to a system of calm progress reports, leading annually to the publication of its comprehensive survey of progress. I am referring to the S.W.A. Survey which was published recently. We counsel a calm approach because we believe that whatever decisions are taken by the U.N. and others, in the last resort the U.N. and the world at large will not be able to ignore or bypass what are the true wishes of the inhabitants of S.W.A. themselves. That is the crucial point. We believe, and we have said so, that it should be within the means of Government in South Africa to offer to the peoples of S.W.A. a future which will provide them with all the autonomy they need, but maintaining the political and economic links which are essential for their progress, for our security, and for peace generally in the subcontinent of Africa. We believe that the majority of the peoples of S.W.A. desire a common future with South Africa. We should be able, any Government should be able, to prove that to the staisfaction, of the world at large when it is necessary.

I know that the Minister himself believes the same thing. In fact, in his speech at the U.N. he indicated that the peoples of S.W.A. “were overwhelmingly in favour of the Government’s approach”. If this was so, then the Government has very little to fear, because, after all, there were also serious disagreements in the U.N. over the future of other trust territories. Consider the history of Ruanda-Urundi, of British Cameroons, of British Togoland. There were very serious disagreements in regard to the future of these territories in the U.N. However, all these disagreements were ultimately resolved according to the principle of self-determination. New territorial arrangements were allowed for these trust territories. In the case of Ruanda-Urundi there was a partition into Uranda and Burundi; in the case of the British Cameroons there also was a partition into two parts, the one part joining the neighbouring state of Nigeria and the other the neighbouring Republic of Cameroun; in regard to British Togoland, this territory was incorporated with its neighbour Ghana. All these things happened under the auspices of the U.N. So, we believe that we are on safe grounds when we propagate the principle of self-determination while leaving the method open for debate and for dialogue. But I think we should avoid as far as possible any dramatic stuff which only spark off reaction.

The announcement in respect of Ovamboland was followed up by an invitation by the hon. the Minister to heads of mission to visit South-West Africa in order to have a look themselves at conditions prevailing in the territory. This was a sound move, a move which we welcome. We are pleased to learn that the general reaction to this is one of acceptance. June is quite a good month in which to visit South-West Africa. In passing I should just like to inquire from the Minister whether this invitation includes the Chinese representative in Johannesburg whose office has assumed many diplomatic functions. I ask this in passing. The question which immediately comes to mind is how far the Government is prepared to go with this policy of come-and-have-a-look. I think the Minister must prepare himself to receive many other important guests. I notice from the Press that the Prime Minister of Lesotho announced that he was going on a tour of inspection of South-West Africa. I am sure nobody doubts his sincerity in this matter. However, the Minister will forgive me if I say that I did not notice that an invitation was extended to him. One is beginning to wonder whether this is not a pertinent case of the telephone proving itself an inadequate instrument of diplomacy. No doubt the hon. the Minister will accuse me once more of riding a hobby horse, but he must remember that we stand here as advocates for South Africa and not to promote the point of view of a party. We cannot nurse the sensitivities of the party opposite. We are advocates for South Africa and, therefore, when we speak we do so for the best for the country. We believe, and I am sure we will be proved right again, that it will be essential for South Africa to establish a permanent mission in Lesotho and have one from Lesotho here in South Africa. However, we should welcome Chief Jonathan’s concern to establish the facts for himself, and we hope it will be possible to arrange a tour for him.

So, the question I put to the Minister is, what is the scope of this policy of come-and-see-for-yourself? Is he prepared also to extend this invitation to other genuinely and legitimately interested parties and to other nations? For instance, I notice that a group of American legislators under the chairmanship of Mr. O’Hara had indicated interest in a visit of this sort. Prominent members of the U.N. might also want to come and, therefore, the Minister should try to give an early indication of the Government’s attitude in this respect. Our feeling is that there is a reasonable limit to everything. However, we should like to see the Government opening the door as far as possible. Maybe the Government should see nuisance cases in the light of being at least a promotion of the tourist trade of South-West Africa and the Republic.

Finally, Sir, the department came forward with a year book for South-West Africa, the South West African Survey, 1967. Naturally, Mr. Chairman, this is right up our street. I must, however, put on record our censure of the Government for all the wasted years that preceded this publication. All through the years students of Africa, students of South-West Africa affairs, all over the world had to depend on the kind of stuff that Ruth First and others put out about South-West Africa. And then we complain about the bad results we see! There was nothing else for people to consult, nothing of a sympathetic nature put forward by South Africa itself. It is a very hard task to break into a solid opinion once a solid Opinion has been formed. And, let me say, a solid opinion has in many cases already been formed in respect of South-West Africa as a result of the lack of Government information. However, we are prepared to say “Better late than never”. The publication is a job well executed in every respect. What is particularly commendable is that it departs from the old dry as dust presentation of official facts and figures. I am sure I am speaking for all on this side when I offer a word of congratulations to the panel of authors and editors. Of course, there is room for criticism and, indeed, for serious criticism. First of all, this publication is not as comprehensive as it could have been. For instance, there is not a word in the Survey to indicate that South-West Africa has a representation of ten members in the Parliament of the Republic and that South-West Africa even has one foot in the Cabinet. I do not want to be too hard on the authors. The members of South-West Africa in this House do not play a very active part in the affairs of that Territory. They are like watchdogs—they only sit and watch. I want to be fair and say that the hon. the Deputy Minister for South-West Africa Affairs is an exception. I will say this for him that I know he has not spared himself in assisting and I sincerely think that South-West Africa now deserves to be represented by a full Minister in the Cabinet.

Another point of criticism I have, and which I hope the hon. the Minister will look into, is that I, find that in certain respects the publication underestimates the intelligence of its readers. In the political section of the publication the Government overplays its hand with the emphasis it places on political independence for little units like Namaland and others. This we all know is pure fiction. Even if it were possible to have an independent state for Namaland the economic section of this very same publication completely demolishes the political argument. The theme of the economic section—and quite rightly so— is that independence for South-West Africa as a whole would spell economic ruin for the territory. “For the territory as a whole”, are the very words used. The Minister himself said at the United Nations last year—and I think this is important—referring to independence for South-West Africa he said—

He asked: “Have they ever considered the problem of running a railway system in this huge territory with a population of only 500,000 people if it were not linked with and integrated with the South African system? Have they considered the same problem concerning postal services and telecommunications? Do they know that the only proper harbour is Walvis Bay, which is South African territory?” The Minister then went on and warned against “superficial sloganizing”. This is a lesson the Government should take to heart. I should like to refer the Minister particularly to page 77 of this publication South West Africa Survey, 1967 where, in reference to the economic infra-structure, the following is stated—

On page 62 it states—

Then this paragraph in particular—

I can give quotations to this effect from other speeches. There is one made by Mr. A. H. du Plessis, the local leader of the Nationalist Party in South-West Africa in which he said—

Surely, if the entire South-West Africa would collapse into economic ruin if it became politically independent, wouldn’t it be true, to a far greater extent, of any and every part of the territory, especially in regard to the southern sector? The authors of this publication should have guarded against defeating their own argument. This is the only criticism I have of this publication—that the economic section is actually fighting with the political section; the economic section is defeating the arguments of the political section. It is no use proposing “political independence” with “economic interdependence” because, once a territory, like Namaland, became politically independent it will be a case of economic dependence, not of economic interdependence —economic dependence on the white developed unit. As a matter of fact, the question of economic interdependence would not arrise at all. Therefore, in our opinion the emphasis in presenting the case of South-West Africa should be placed on material development, especially education, a fairer distribution of land, which is what the buying of white land amounts to, and the creation of machinery for self-expression and consultation, leaving fancy statements about constitutional independence for small areas, especially in the south, out of the picture.

Progress reported.