Sir, the business of the House for today and next week will be as follows: Today we shall dispose of the Planning Vote. This will most probably take all day. On Monday we shall proceed to deal with the Public Works and the Community Development Votes. On Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday we shall deal with the following items of legislation: Firstly, the Land Bank Amendment Bill; secondly, the National Supplies Procurement Amendment Bill; after that the debate on the Second Reading of the Liquor Amendment Bill will be resumed, and then we shall proceed to deal with the other legislation of the hon. the Minister of Justice.

Sir, it may be suggested that, within the existing State structure, the particular departments which are now being discussed, are not important, but when looking at the Budget, we find that R33 million is being budgeted for under the Planning Vote. R25 million of which is earmarked for the maintenance of the CSIR. Apart from that, under the Loan Vote, R15 million is being set aside, the largest portion of which is used for the decentralization programme of the Government. Sir, although, as I say, it might not be regarded as important within the existing State structure, we on this side of the House are nevertheless of the opinion that the scope of the work which is being done by this department, the significance and the effect of it, are extremely important.

When considering the Votes of this hon. Minister, I want to say immediately that there are three major divisions. There is, in the first instance, environment preservation, with the prevention of pollution and all the matters incidental thereto. Here we have a novel activity, something which will not become any easier in the future, but only more difficult. Here is something of which the scope will not diminish, but will expand even further. Since this is a new activity within our State set-up, we would have liked to have the time to be able to deal with these activities in detail. The second activity is that of statistics. Once again it is hardly necessary for me to point out how important it is to have up-to-date statistics available for economic planning. Once again we would have liked to be able to make a penetrating analysis of this particular activity. In the third place we have the planning function itself, and here we are dealing with scientific research, economic research, physical research, the determination of group areas, and so on. This is a wide field of which one would have liked to make an analysis in depth. But this is impossible, because we who are sitting in these benches, find that one hour is allocated to us to discuss these important Votes. This means six speeches of 10 minutes each and under these circumstances we cannot develop any kind of theme at all. Therefore, what we shall do, is to take a few samples and only refer to several aspects, and in this way we hope to be able to conduct a debate of some form or other.

As far as the role of planning is concerned—this is the first aspect about which I would like to say a few words—it is clear that it is beginning to assume enormous proportions. We have an activity here, the extent of which is increasing all the time, and to remind hon. members I refer to new projects which are probably in the pipeline and with which the Government is directly concerned. It is said that Escom alone is going to spend R1 000 million during the following four or five years. It is said that Sasol will require R1 000 million; that Iscor will also require R1 000 million, and that the same is likely to apply to uranium enrichment. It is said that it will cost R1 000 million to switch over to containerization. Therefore, we are dealing here with enormously large sums of money. Just to give an indication, I want to mention that the last war cost South Africa about £60 million per year, but here we are speaking of thousands upon thousands of millions of rand. What this indicates to us, is that as far as it concerns economic development, State control and State property are becoming increasingly larger. Sir, this is not a theme which I can develop now but what is evident, is that private initiative is being deviated from an increasing extent and that we are in the process of developing a form of State capitalism. But I shall not take this argument any further at this stage. What I do want to say, is that since the Government is incurring capital expenditure of this nature and scope, it is essential from the nature of the circumstances that planning activity of a high order should exist within the Government itself to determine in which way the money should be spent and what the priorities should be. It has already been suggested that a new Post should be created, i.e. a kind of Deputy Prime Minister whose particular task would be to determine the priorities of the capital expenditure by the Government. I think this is something which should enjoy serious attention, and I think the hon. the Minister should support this because it could possibly mean promotion to him.

†I want to turn to something else. This particular department with which we are concerned, was established slightly more than ten years ago, and it seems to me that the moment is now opportune for the Government and for the hon. the Minister to review the functions and the organizational structure of the department itself. There was a time when it was said from the Government benches that it was always the most junior Minister that was assigned to the planning portfolio. I am very pleased that the Government has departed from this idea and that the present hon. Minister is one who sits in the Treasury benches. It would seem to us that this department has grown very much like Topsy, and perhaps this is the opportune time for the hon. the Minister to take stock of the situation and to look anew at its organizational structure, its tasks and its functions. I notice for example that there is such an absolute plethora of committees that I do not know how the hon. the Minister and the senior members of his staff can control them. I notice that under the item “Environmental conservation”, this department is actively involved in some 20 committees. Additionally, they have representation on some 70 other committees. Well, Sir, you are running a massive scheme when you are running a 100 committees with which the department is actively involved. We know that there is only about 50 senior officials in this particular department; so that on this sort of basis each one has two committees for which he is responsible. In terms of legislation which is before the House, the hon. the Minister wants to turn his senior officials into industrial policemen sort of, and I think that this is going to become a situation which will be completely untenable. From this point of view, we suggest that it is perhaps appropriate for the hon. the Minister to review the tasks and the functions of his own department and to look again at its organizational structure. He should also make quite sure that we are perhaps not beginning to over-centralize. In South Africa we have a planning activity at subsidiary level and it certainly would be our view that these subsidiary planning organizations should be fully integrated with the activities of the department. I am very impressed by a reference which was recently made in the department’s journal by one of its senior officials. He referred to the statement by the Secretary of Commerce in the United States of America in which he said the following:

The official then goes on with the following explanatory paragraph:

What I am suggesting is that when this kind of review is done, cognizance should be taken of that very important thought.

I also want to raise the question of productivity. It is a matter which we raised also during the discussion of the Vote of the hon. the Minister of Labour. But as usual he did not respond to any issues that were raised by this side of the House. Perhaps we shall get something positive from this hon. Minister. In terms of the Economic Development Programme, we ought to have an increase in productivity every year of some 2,8%. We are terribly distressed by the statistics which were released recently by Prof. Hennie Reynders, in which he shows that if you take as index output per unit of input South Africa is way down on the scale and one of the lowest in 12 developing countries. The same happens when you take a PLU index, i.e. production per labour unit. There South Africa is the lowest of 17 developing countries. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I do not want to react to what was said by the hon. member for Hillbrow, except to refer in passing to the remark he made as if industrial policemen are now going to be appointed in the department, and to say that we shall react to that on another occasion.

At the beginning of this year there was a private motion on the Order Paper which dealt with the position of the rural areas. Unfortunately we were unable to discuss that motion. Because we regard this matter of cardinal importance, we exchanged a few ideas on the rural areas on another occasion. On this occasion I said that the time had arrived for us to see to it that towns of a certain size would have to be offered specific assistance through the provincial authorities. After that discussion in this House, we had reactions from our rural towns throughout our fatherland. Everybody agrees, as I have suggested, for assistance to be given to such towns to make them more viable. At the time I also referred to the particularly important role which town clerks play in connection with the maintenance and development of smaller towns. My plea that town clerks be subsidized to ensure that we can get only the best people in those positions in the rural areas, also enjoys support everywhere. We feel very strongly about this matter. I should like to refer to a seminar which Prof. P. C. Fourie delivered in June 1971 to the Institute of Town Clerks at Pietermaritzburg. I do not have the time to go into it now, but I do want to ask the hon. the Minister to read this seminar and appreciate that town clerks have more to do than merely fulfil the role in which we usually see them. They have to be leaders of their communities. I want to conclude by quoting an expert in this field. I am now referring to Mr. Steyn van der Spuy, the chairman of the advisory council for local authorities in the Transvaal. He had the following to say at a congress of municipalities in the Transvaal (translation)—

I have come across several of these little places and some of my friends sitting here today represent such small places. There is, amongst others, the mayoress of a little town—I am not going to mention her name—who fought against her little town becoming a ghost town. She succeeded because she was fortunate enough to get a town clerk who could do the essential things. That little town is developing well now, but now they have reached the crossroads again, because the town clerk has accepted a better position elsewhere. This illustrates the importance of the matter. We trust that the department will find the ways and means with which we can assist our smaller towns. If the authorities provide the means for the smaller towns to be made more viable, we are prepared, as I said at the time—I do not want to repeat all the reasons again—to do something about it. We are prepared to appoint, say, two members from a city council of seven members on the strength of their knowledge of municipal or related affairs. There was a reaction to this, strong support and in a few cases people who feel that we would then interfere with the democratic right of people. I also want to tell you that the opposition we received came from people who have been members of the same town council for as long as 37 years. These people also agreed with me that they do not know how difficult the position is when one deals with small towns where, as a result of circumstances, one does not have continuity in the representation in the town council. I therefore want to recommend very strongly that we should see what we can do in the years ahead to render active assistance to towns of a certain size and to smaller to make them more viable. I want to use this opportunity today, in the first instance, to make an appeal to parents in our metropolitan areas. Hon. members know that there was a time—they will pardon me if I express it in this way—when it had snob value for parents in the rural areas to send their children to schools in the urban areas. But now, with the over-population of our metropolitan areas, I want to ask myself whether the time has not come for parents in our metropolitan areas to send their children to the small rural schools. I want to tell hon. members, those parents and also the hon. the Minister, that everyone of us here can make an inventory and we will notice that the highest executive positions in South Africa today are being occupied by boys who received their education at small rural schools. To the parents in the metropolitan areas I want to say that there are five schools with five hostels throughout our fatherland which offer ample scope and opportunities for their children to go to these areas to receive their education in a rural area. I want to tell these people that the rural atmosphere is one of the components of the South African way of life we should make better use of. In passing I can just tell the hon. member for Hillbrow that the one thing that makes him what he is, is the fact that he went to school and grew up in Faure-smith. It was only in Hillbrow that he became spoilt. I read in the Sunday Times of old people who have to spend their last days in the most difficult circumstances, in small rooms and in solitude. Therefore I ask whether the time has not arrived for us to see to it that old-age pensions are far higher in the rural areas than in the metropolitan areas, so that we can encourage those people to leave these metropolitan areas and to spend their last days in our small communities. When these people—and this assurance I want to give you—are taken up into such a community, they will definitely feel that they are still part of the community, and they will be able to spend their last days in this rural tranquillity among country people in a way which is completely different from that in the metropolitan areas.

The final point I want to make is whether the time has not arrived for us to see to it that the municipal boundaries of our smaller towns are extended. I think the time has arrived for us to regard the magisterial districts as the municipal area of the small towns. The farmers on the farms form part of the small towns, because these are their towns just as much as they are the towns of people living there. If my suggestion is adopted we might get a situation in which these smaller towns and the community they are serving will be able to be made more viable. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I hope that the plea which the hon. member for Smithfield made on behalf of the rural areas, will not go unheard. The hon. the Minister of Planning and the Environment is himself a product of the rural areas, and we trust that he will therefore give his support to the plea of the hon. member.

The National Party Government is the entrepreneur and the developer that has to some creative work as far as the future of South Africa is concerned. If one looks at the Opposition parties, it is evident that the National Party Government will, for many years to come, have to carry out the task of doing creative work in South Africa. If one considers the recipes those parties have to offer for the future development of South Africa, one comes to the conclusion that should they ever come to power, they would be the burial party of the White nation at the southern tip of Africa, and therefore also of development in Southern Africa. As entrepreneur and developer this Government is aware of the fact that the population of South Africa will double itself during the next 25 years, that employment opportunities will, over the next 25 years, have to be provided for a population which has doubled itself and that housing, education facilities, recreation facilities and water and food will have to be provided for an ever-increasing population over the next 25 years. Roads, railway lines and other aspects of the infrastructure will have to be adapted to be able to comply with the needs of a population which doubles itself. As entrepreneur and developer this Government is mindful of the fact that the population of South Africa will at the turn of the century be more or less as follows: Approximately 7 million Whites, approximately 5,2 million Brown people, approximately 1.4 million Asians and approximately 37 million Black people.

The Government could, as entrepreneur and developer of a future pattern, follow the way of least resistance by letting things take their own course. The result would then be a massive development in and around the existing metropolitan areas, with a host of social and political problems arising from it. If we consider the projection for the Cape Peninsula which appears in the National Physical Development Plan, we see that approximately 800000 Whites, approximately 18 000 Asians and approximately 2,2 million Brown people will be living in the Cape Peninsula by the year 2000. With regard to the Bantu, no projection was made, but according to the 1970 census there are approximately 130 000 Bantu in the Cape Peninsula and I think it is not too far-fetched to accept that there will be 300 000 Bantu in the year 2000 if we simply allow matters to take their normal course. This means that the total population of the Cape metropolitan area will be 3,3 million people at the end of this century as opposed to the present 1,3 million. At the turn of the century the number of Coloured children attending school in the Cape Peninsula will have increased by approximately 800 000. If schools are built for Coloured people which can each accommodate approximately 800 children, more or less 1 000 schools will have to be built during the next 25 years for Coloureds alone in the Cape Peninsula. If we take it that each school covers approximately 5 ha, more or less 5 000 ha of the valuable land of the Cape Peninsula will be taken up by Coloured schools alone. If sport and recreation facilities are established in the Peninsula for 2 million additional people, and we accept that only one rugby or soccer field has to be established for every 10 000 people, approximately 200 rugby or soccer fields, covering approximately 400 ha, will have to be built during this period. There are many calculations we can make to describe the enormous extent of this situation and to indicate how much available land will be occupied and which facilities will have to be established in this area during the next 25 years, but I first want to present hon. members with a picture of the PWV area, in which approximately 3,2 million Whites, 410 000 Brown people and 167 000 Asians will be living at the turn of the century. In addition, 2,4 million Bantu are living there at present. With regard to these people no projection was made but if we allow matters to take their own course, they will probably increase to perhaps 5 million. This gives us a possible population of 9 million people in this area at the end of the century.

Sir, as responsible developer and entrepreneur the Government cannot allow matters to take their own course and it cannot follow the way of least resistance. What is necessary is thorough planning but also expeditious planning. Expeditious and active action is necessary to prevent overcrowding among the various peoples in South Africa in our metropolitan areas at the turn of the century.

In this future planning of South Africa, the Department of Planning is the architect that has to draw up the plan which will determine what the South Africa of the future will look like. We are grateful for having the National Physical Development Plan at our disposal today. As a basic plan it is the fruit of hard and thorough work done by the Department of Planning. We are grateful for having this basic plan at our disposal today, a basic plan which gives an indication of the way in which South Africa should develop in future and which divides South Africa into 38 regions. Since the department has made available this valuable basic plan, I want to ask that the 38 regions will also be given shape to as soon as possible and that regional guide plans will be prepared as soon as possible. We appreciate that a manpower shortage exists in the Department of Planning with regard to this work. Therefore, priority will probably have to be given to the planning of certain regions. When this priority is determined, I want to ask the hon. the Minister and his department to consider the regions which have the potential to allow ethnic groups to develop alongside one another in their own areas. I also want to ask that priority be given in this regard to regions 1 and 18 of this National Physical Development Plan. The Minister of Mines has already waxed lyrical about the mineral potential of these two regions. He called it “magnificent”, “fantastic”, and “unbelievable”. Mineral exploitation and the processing of minerals could form the basis for the development of these two regions. Namaqualand, which includes a Coloured rural area of more than 1 million morgen in extent, rich mineral deposits, is waiting to be exploited as an area where White and Brown, alongside each other, could share the new development and prosperity of this area.

The National Physical Development Plan provides for a growth pole in this region for which we are very grateful, but now we find, for instance, that permission has been granted for a copper enrichment project to be erected at Faure in the Cape Peninsula. A start has already been made with the development of the terrain for this project. As I have said, we have the growth pole in Namaqualand with its mineral wealth, an area which could be exploited and developed for the sake of that area and its people, and we now find that the minerals of that area are to be conveyed to the Cape Peninsula, which will be quite over-populated by the turn of the century. Now I just want to ask whether something cannot be done about transport tariffs. Is it not transport tariffs which make it essential for that entrepreneur to erect his factory here in the Peninsula rather than in Namaqualand where it could take place to the benefit of that area and its people.

As far as region 18 is concerned, the region including Kuruman, Postmasburg, Sishen, Danielskuil and Hotazel, and adjoining Bophuthatswana, I just want to say that only the PWV region, regions 23, 25 and 30, have a higher percentage of the total gross value of sales of mining products than region 18. Only 14 of the 38 regions, were responsible for higher contributions to the gross geographic product of South Africa. The National Physical Development Plan does not envisage any growth point or growth pole in this area adjoining this Bantu homeland. The preparation of a guide plan for this region has become imperative. The creation of the necessary infrastructure has become imperative to prevent there being more Bantu present in the near future in the developing White mining area of this region than in the adjoining homeland. A growth pole with border industry growth points is essential in this area to prevent an influx of Bantu to the urban industrial complexes. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I would like to compliment the hon. member for Kuruman on the understanding which he has shown today for the need for planning in South Africa. If I have to disagree with him in certain statements he made it will merely be that we have a different point of view in certain instances to those which he has. However, it is very nice to see that he is concerned about the future planning of South Africa. I should also like to pay tribute to the officials of the department for the reports which they are presenting on the work that they are doing. From these reports it is very clear to me that South Africa now has the scientists and the technologists to be able to conduct planning on a very high level. It is also clear from the statistics that have been produced in these reports that South Africa now has a very highly developed economy and projections into the future show that it will truly become the powerhouse of Southern Africa. However, I should like to make one observation. In none of these planning documents that I have received from the department do I see any mention of regional planning being undertaken in the Bantu homelands. I should like to ask the hon. the Minister whether his department is doing the physical and economic planning in the homelands. If this is so, where are the reports? Perhaps he will also tell us who is responsible for planning in the homelands.

We in the United Party have stated over and over again that for planning purposes South Africa should be treated as one geographic entity which would include the homelands. I want to ask the hon. the Minister whether I am correct in assuming that because there is no mention of Bantu homelands in a large number of these reports that I have read, this is in line with the separate development policy of the Government and that this will be the responsibility of the homeland governments. I believe that this is the answer I will receive in relation to the comments I have made. If this is correct, then I should also like to ask why it is that exception is made in the case of the Economic Development Programme for the Republic? This is the only report that I can find on planning and development which includes the homelands and their peoples. For instance, the National Physical Development Plan which the hon. member for Kuruman has just referred to and which was issued by the Department of Planning earlier this year shows the existing and planned metropolitan areas of South Africa. It also shows the growth poles and the existing and future development axes in this nation. However, I find that none of these is located directly within the Bantu homelands. However, the EDP which is presented by the department for the Republic includes all the homelands and their peoples. Am I to assume that when it comes to the planning of the economic development of South Africa this Government is only too pleased to include the homelands and their peoples, mainly as workers, but that when it comes to the actual physical development, this is limited to White South Africa? The facts as represented in these reports seem to indicate this. For instance, if one studies the EDP, one can only conclude that increasing numbers of the economically active Bantu are being drawn into White South Africa. In fact, Sir, in 1970 just on 70% of the total economically active Blacks in South Africa were employed in White South Africa. Their efforts resulted in a GDP of R2 946 per annum per Black worker, whereas the efforts of their fellow Black workers working in the homelands only generated a GDP of R135 per worker. This disparity between the wealth being generated in the homelands and in White South Africa is resulting and, I believe, is going to continue to result, in an ever-increasing stream of Blacks leaving the homelands to seek employment in White South Africa. Mr. Chairman, I see nothing in the hon. the Minister’s planning which indicates that a serious endeavour is being made to change this state of affairs. Surely this is borne out by the EDP’s projected real growth fixed investment figures for the 1973 to 1979 planning period. Sir, in 1973 the South African economy required a capital investment of R4 709 million in order to achieve the EDP’s target rate. This year we are going to require R5 432 million to achieve the projected growth rate. Sir, during the debate on the Bantu Administration Vote the hon. member for Klerksdorp charged me with appearing to be unduly disparaging when, in commenting upon the set-up and the development of the homelands, I said in reference to the Xhosa Development Corporation that—

I would like to assure the hon. member that I had no intention of being disparaging, but I would like to ask him now whether he still feels this way after hearing these figures. For instance, the XDC growth and capital investment funds for the Transkei and the Ciskei for this year only represent 0,44% of the R5 432 million required this year if South Africa as a whole is to sustain its economic growth rate as planned under the EDP. In this morning’s paper I see that the BIC has made an announcement that their funds are going to increase by R17 million this year, which I believe is about 0,3% of the capital funds required for South Africa at this time; so I ask, Sir, just how separate is this Government’s separate development policy and along what lines is this development being planned by the hon. the Minister? Sir, these are the facts which I believe have to be faced in a realistic manner. We cannot sweep them under the carpet, as I am sure many hon. members on that side would like to do.

They would not only like to do it, they do it.

I honestly believe that the Verwoerdian dogma of separate development is a myth, and I believe that hon. members on that side of the House might now look at, let us say, the United Party’s policy towards separate development.

Which one?

After all, it was Dr. Verwoerd who said the following in 1951 when warning about the concentration of Black workers in our White industrial complexes—

Surely, this Government’s Economic Development Programme for South Africa shows that we are expanding our industrial development at an ever-increasing rate and in so doing we are integrating into our economy the majority of Black workers in the whole of South Africa. I want to make it quite clear, Sir, that we on this side are in general agreement with the general principles of the EDP, but we feel that this economic planning is out of touch with the rest of the planning done by the hon. the Minister’s department. I appeal to hon. members on that side please to take an objective view of what I am saying. In fact, I would like to challenge the hon. the Minister to put his team of planners and economists to work on the thoughts which I have put forward here today and to report back to this House and to tell us exactly what sort of future is in store for the Whites of South Africa and for the Black homelands. I honestly believe that we can no longer beat about the bush or play petty politics with this subject. It is a serious matter, and I do believe that there are hon. members on that side who are just as concerned as we are here about the future of both Whites and Blacks in South Africa.

Sir, we hear an awful lot from hon. members on that side about the identity of people. I respect their sentiments, Sir, and I agree with a lot of it. For instance, I respect the Afrikaner for the battle he has had to wage over many years to establish his identity. I admire him for his achievement and also for his desire to assist the Blacks of South Africa in establishing their identity. But will the planning as reflected by this report achieve that? I should like to ask the hon. the Minister what sort of identity will the Blacks in South Africa have in 10 or 20 years’ time from now if he proceeds with these plans. Since the start of the economic revolution after the last war, there has been much concern about the depopulation of the platteland. We heard that once again from the hon. member for Smithfield this morning. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I shall leave the hon. member for Amanzimtoti to the hon. the Minister himself. In the ten minutes at my disposal I should like to emphasize three specific aspects of our country’s planning. I shall first mention them; then I shall motivate my view.

Firstly, I think the time is ripe for the Decentralization Board to be fitted in with the activities of the Department of Planning, the department which carries out advance planning, implements and co-ordinates. Then, too, I am of the opinion that it is time to give South Africa’s Brown people representation on the Decentralization Board. I shall motivate my standpoint later. Secondly, I think that a sum of money should be placed on the Budget annually for decentralization and the purposeful establishment or organization of the areas of what I want to call “non-Black South Africa” with much more of a flourish, with more deliberate purpose, with a new image.

Sir, we tell to the world today very clearly that we spend R1 000 million on defence, R106 million on the provision of water and R214 million on education. We tell the world this very explicitly, and I believe, too, that the world ought to see that we are spending so many millions on the organization of areas in non-Black South Africa as well. I am not only referring to what we are doing in the Black man’s country. Thirdly, I want to advocate that in the implementation of the National Physical Development Plan we have now received, in terms of which South Africa is divided into 38 regions, attention first be given to the regions in the southern part of our country where White and Brown have to display the necessary neighbourliness towards each other every day. And let me say in passing that in my opinion, this is a fine piece of work on the part of the Department of Planning and I want to congratulate the department on it. Basically it creates a new image of the future for us.

Sir, let me motivate my case. Since 1959, South Africa has committed itself meaningfully to a policy of freedom through territorial separation as far as its large Black majority is concerned. We are dividing up South Africa. In my humble opinion, the most important piece of legislation passed during the past session was the consolidation legislation in terms of which we are drawing additional borders on the map of South Africa so as to bring about a separation between South Africa’s Black people on the one hand and South Africa’s non-Black people on the other. This is therefore, by implication, a further purposeful investment in homeland development, in border area development and, once again, with financial support on the part of the Whites—let alone brainpower and manpower. No, to put it briefly: For us 2½ million White people this is truly a major investment in our own freedom.

Against this background I now maintain that as the pattern of territorial separation develops momentum and acquires tangible form from time to time, more emphasis should also be laid on what I want to call the “geographic content of non-Black South Africa”. Let me say what I mean by “non-Black South Africa”. It is the territory of the White man in South Africa, the territory of the Brown people and the territory of the South African Indian. The physical content and organization of this non-Black South Africa has two basic characteristics which those who plan for the future in South Africa will necessarily have to take into consideration. What are these characteristics? In the first place: In the northern parts of non-Black South Africa we still have almost 9 million foreign Black people today who do not reside in their homelands. I want to mention three outstanding examples. About 400 000 foreign Black mineworkers are present in South Africa today, chiefly in the northern part. About 3,4 million Black people are in the employ of the approximately 82 000 farmers of our country today, once again mainly in the northern parts of our country. The latest figures indicate that Soweto is a city with a population of 1¼ million Black people. Sebokeng has a population of 115 000 people. I could continue in this way to mention examples, but I leave it at that. As far as I know, these almost 9 million Black people stay in non-Black South Africa without the express intention of becoming part of our nation in any way.

The second characteristic of non-White South Africa that I want to mention is that there is one salient fact as regards the situation here in the southern parts of South Africa, chiefly in Cape Town, a fact which the planner has constantly to take into consideration. What is this characteristic? Three-quarters of South Africa’s 2½ million Brown people are concentrated chiefly in the southern parts of non-Black South Africa. Just consider the thousands of Brown families waiting to enter the Cape metropolis today. They are not like the Bantu, strangers within the borders of our country. The Brown people are not a settler minority in non-Black South Africa who are able to withdraw tomorrow or the next day. It is not the policy of the country that they should have a separate homeland for themselves. Those then are the two basic outstanding characteristics of the situation in non-Black South Africa.

I want to make further reference to the Brown people. They are Brown South Africans who, with the necessary say, contact and neighbourhood, share with us, the same territorial borders. This basic truth is becoming more and more important as regards planning in our country. Hence the three proposals for the improved implementation of this fact which I mentioned at the beginning of my speech, and hence my plea for a greater deliberate emphasis on that part of the country where White and Brown share the same borders. In our planning, therefore, we have freedom through separation on the one hand and the purposeful organization of our areas in non-Black South Africa on the other. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, we are living today in a constantly changing world in which science and scientific research, is playing an ever greater role. Because science is not static, we are coming across new discoveries and techniques daily, which are applied in trade and industry and by means of which improved and more effective products are manufactured; products which, in their turn, influence our everyday life, for example in the form of better roads, higher buildings, faster aeroplanes and so on. South Africa has never lagged behind as far as scientific research is concerned, particularly since the establishment of the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, better known as the C.S.I.R. According to its 1975-’76 budget, the C.S.I.R., with its 15 national research institutes, laboratories and groups of researchers distributed throughout South Africa, is already handling an amount of R48,4 million, of which R27 million was voted by the Government and R21,4 million was earned by the C.S.I.R. itself by means of contract work.

This Government is attacked and criticized daily by the Opposition for supposedly not displaying sufficient initiative and supposedly not doing enough for trade and industry in South Africa. But if one takes note of the fact that in 1947 the C.S.I.R. budget was only something like R776 000, as against R48,4 million today, one feels proud of what this National Party Government is doing in the interests of South Africa, in the interests of trade and industry, and in the interests of research. In 1947, bursaries and awards for research from the C.S.I.R. amounted to R16 800. Today they amount to R3 million. When bursaries are awarded for research and study, they are awarded by the C.S.I.R. solely and exclusively on merit. The colour and race of the applicant is entirely immaterial. In 1947 the amount earned by the C.S.I.R. itself was R7 700; today it is R21,4 million. This is truly something for Dr. Brink and his people to be very proud of.

The aim of the C.S.I.R. is, inter alia, to develop the knowledge and the skill of all the people in South Africa, to assist in the efficient utilization of our resources in South Africa, to assist in developing the economic infrastructure of our country and in general to improve the welfare and the living conditions of all our people in South Africa. In pursuing this endeavour, as I have already said, research is carried out at the head office in Eastern Pretoria, in the Pretoria East constituency. Research is also promoted through the granting of bursaries and grants for study to universities in South Africa and overseas. Through the institutes there is the closest co-operation with industries in South Africa. These institutes are financed on a rand for rand basis by the C.S.I.R. and interested industries. One could mention as examples the Fishing Industry Research, Institute in Cape Town, the Sugar Milling Research Institute in Durban, the Wool and Textile Research Institute in Port Elizabeth and many more. The work of these institutes is primarily aimed at enabling the interested industries to manufacture better and more efficient products so that they may compete more economically on the local and international markets. I might just mention a few examples of the successes of the C.S.I.R. through the years. They have evolved a technique to recover lanolin, a type of wool fat, from the run-off of the washing process. A process has also been developed to make fabrics containing cotton fire-retant. In the field of leather research the so-called LIRI-tan tanning process has been developed, a major improvement on the tanning processes in South Africa as far as the elimination of pollution effects is concerned. I might mention that this process enabled the tanneries and leather industry of the USA to be saved at a stage when it was almost going under owing to very strict pollution legislation in the USA; I could mention a number of further examples, such as water reclamation, ground stability, sugar, the fishing industry, etc. However, I shall be content to dwell briefly on one of the C.S.I.R.’s biggest successes, viz. the perfection of the so-called Tellurometer. The Tellurometer is a very delicate instrument with which distances can be measured and determined by means of radio waves. This instrument has already been sold to more than 60 countries for use in their civil engineering and in their defence forces for an amount of more than R13 million. South Africa has already benefited by more than R1 million merely from the royalties for the use of this instrument overseas.

The C.S.I.R. a bridge builder, not only in the literal sense of the word, but in the figurative sense as well. Owing to its outstanding scientific research and the information it collects, the C.S.I.R. and the outstanding work it does are known throughout the world. Scientists attached to this council are invited everywhere in the world not only as guest speakers, but also to share in the knowledge of research carried out by other research units throughout the world. On a non-political basis the C.S.I.R. belongs to innumerable associations. I want to mention only one, viz. the International Council for Scientific Unions, and at least 16 of its component unions. South Africa’s image is projected throughout the world through the C.S.I.R., even behind the Iron Curtain, because there is appreciation and respect for the research work carried out in South Africa. Not only are we invited to participate overseas, we act as hosts in South Africa as well, and international conferences are arranged on our own soil. To mention a few of the more recent ones, there were, for example, the recent International Geological Conference on Kimberlite; the first meeting of section 5 of the International Union of Forestry Research Organizations, and then a very important one held here, the Golden Jubilee Congress of the International Association of Sugar Technologists. These are only a few examples, but what is of great importance is that people of world stature visit South Africa and come to see what we are doing here. Even people from African countries, countries like Zambia and others which do not always like to let it be known that they have come here. Owing to the strong positive guidance provided by the C.S.I.R. and its participation in these conferences and bodies, South Africa, too, shares in the fruits of overseas research. There is one thing I should very much like to mention today and that is the strictly positive and yet very quiet influence exerted by the hon. the Minister of Planning, and the secretary of his department as well. I want to thank them for what they are doing to develop the C.S.I.R. as a showroom in the research and scientific sphere in South Africa. I want to conclude by making an earnest appeal, and that is that the C.S.I.R. should play a far greater and more positive role in the development of our homelands. I am convinced that discussions are already being held in this regard, but I believe that far more rapid action can and will be taken. We must and can make use of the C.S.I.R. with its wealth of knowledge and with the staff and research at its disposal in order that progress in the homelands may be more rapid. One calls to mind, just in passing, matters such as new processes for the selection of personnel and new methods of processing agricultural products cultivated in the homelands. Then, too, in the time of détente one could probably say that the African countries, too, could make greater use of the knowledge and the services of the C.S.I.R. which could so easily be put at their disposal. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I claim the privilege of the half-hour. The last two speakers on the Government side have taken a very constructive approach towards this problem. I want to be constructive by being highly critical, because I do believe that in the field of national physical planning it is only by throwing the ball around and by contrasting points of view that one can arrive at the correct overall solution.

In relation to the hon. member for Moorreesburg, who always brings an interesting point of view to bear on any debate—there is subtlety in what he says— may I say that his short contribution today really reflected both the dilemma and the contradiction which face the National Party. On the one hand they talk of “nie swart Suid-Afrika” because Black people or Africans are not part of their national entity and yet they have to admit the permanence of 9 million Black people for the purposes of physical planning. This is the dilemma confronting all the hon. members on the other side. They wish, Blacks away for ideological purposes and yet they know that they have to include them in any planning for physical development purposes.

I want to address myself in particular to the hon. the Minister. I do this in all seriousness against the background of my own personal training, which has led me to appreciate the value of physical planning and decentralization, and of my long association with Pinelands Garden City. As a result of this I have come into contact with the writings and teachings of people like Ebenezer Howard on the concept of the green belt city and the Letchworth and Welwyn experiments in Britain at the turn of the century. I have also had the opportunity to study and observe new cities and decentralization programmes in other parts of the Western world. I appreciate the merits of decentralization and I appreciate the contribution which the satellite town can make in easing the problems of the metropolitan area. I say all of this by way of background.

I accept the need in relation to the Cape Western region—the three regions 01, 0 4 and 0 5—to plan ahead for the growing populations of this area and to take into account the special problems of this area in the field of industrial expansion in relation to the other growth points in South Africa. When one looks at these areas and particularly the problem of the very rapid growth of the Coloured population of the Western Cape to which the hon. member for Kuruman has referred, one finds that there are various projections. The latest projection of the increase in the populations of these three areas indicates a growth of approximately one million Coloured people, over the next 25 years, bringing the total Coloured population for this region to a minimum figure of two million. Approximately 800 000 Whites will also be included. There is a problem related to the rapid growth in a Coloured population which is largely concentrated in the Cape metropolitan region, although these people are also spread throughout the Boland.

All the indications are that the present schemes, the present areas which are being developed together with Mitchell’s Plain, Dassenberg and Saldanha Bay No. 1, will still leave a situation where at the turn of the century we will be short of land for Coloured development or housing to accommodate about 500 000 people. I accept, therefore, that there is a pressing need for more land for the Coloured people. But I want to refer in particular to the contribution which is being made to this problem by what has been described in a pamphlet as the “brain-child” of the Department of Planning. I want to refer in particular to Dassenberg and to say to the hon. the Minister in all seriousness that I want him to stop in his tracks. I want him and his department to stop where they are and to re-examine the whole Dassenberg project thoroughly, because whatever may be intended rather than heading towards a solution, this has all the makings of heading towards a disaster. I put it in these terms very specifically because this plan is the linchpin in the Government’s proposals to resolve the problems of the expanding urban population of the Cape Western area, because it will involve 500 000 people, and because if it fails it is not only going to have a repercussion on those people, but on the whole Cape region. I therefore ask the hon. the Minister to stop in his tracks and re-examine this project thoroughly. I believe that as this plan is at the moment, it is doomed to failure.

I want to raise my arguments under five headings. First of all, as far as the siting of Dassenberg on a regional basis is concerned, the present site aims to satisfy the ideological whim and the race concept of the National Party and at the same time the siting defies nearly all the basic criteria for sound regional and urban planning. In other words, there is a conflict between the criteria for sound regional and urban planning and the ideological race policy of the Government. This is apparent from the various reports which have been produced. At some time someone said there will be no Coloured development between Voortrekker Road and Mamre. This was going to be a White reserve. Therefore any development for the Coloureds had to be in the Mamre area and beyond. This has been fundamental in determining a site for this development. The important regional and planning aspects have not been taken into account.

This scheme, which in five years’ time is going to house 60 000 people, is going to be the biggest village outside of the metropolitan area of Cape Town. Within five years it is going to be bigger than Stellenbosch, Paarl, Worcester, Saldanha. It is going to be bigger than these, and yet there is scarcely any reference to this scheme in the National Physical Development Plan. There is a passing reference to it in the text on pages 16 and 17 as being somewhere on the axis between Cape Town and Saldanha. However, if one looks at the accompanying map, one sees that it is not even mentioned by name or as a zone. There is no reference whatsoever to Dassenberg or the Dassenberg concept in this National Physical Development Plan. We now have the decision to build a city of half a million people which will grow to be the largest Boland town within six years, but there is no reference to this in the National Physical Development Plan before us.

Let us look at the criteria given. First of all, it is not a metropolitan area, which is the first reason for growth and development. Secondly, it is not a planned metropolitan area. The planned metropolitan areas according to the report are Saldanha, East London, King William’s Town and Richards Bay. Thirdly, it is not referred to as a growth-point, or as a growth-pole. It is none of these things which are peculiar to an area which is to be developed. What is referred to, is that it is on the Cape Town-Saldanha development axis. Geographically this is so, but a development axis can only exist when one has established the two poles at either end of the axis. One has to establish these two poles of attraction in order to create an axis between them. Saldanha has not been so established. I want to say that if, in terms of this plan, Saldanha is to be developed as a metropolitan area—and the Government is committed to such development—there is no logic in establishing a city of 500 000 people close to Cape Town because that is merely going to increase the dominance of Cape Town in the whole Western Cape region and is going to make it impossible to develop Saldanha as a metropolitan area.

Are you afraid they are going to come to Sea Point again?

Therefore in terms of sound regional planning there is no case whatsoever even in terms of the criteria laid down by the Physical Planning Department to proceed with Dassenberg on this basis.

In addition to this, that area has no attractive natural features for city development. There are no exploitable raw materials or economic advantages of communications, roads, a port or accessibility to labour. There is no close proximity to water, power or the infrastructure of urban living. Finally, there is no rural hinterland which it could affect in a beneficial way by providing more employment in the areas around it. One only has to refer to the numerous reports which have been issued by various planners in this connection. I want to put on record what was said in one of the Divisional Council’s reports in which the growth potential of Mamre is analysed:

The question is asked: “Can we succeed?” The reply is:

Mr. Chairman, these are the planners involved and they say that they cannot argue whether this is going to succeed because “the choice of Mamre was a subjective one”. We then find listed all the problems in relation to the development of Mamre or Dassenberg. I am raising this matter because I want to say first of all that from the point of view of regional planning this is not on. It should not have been there and if an area was to be earmarked for Coloured development, it should either have been at Saldanha Bay which is a metropolitan growth point indicated in the physical plan or at least 20 miles closer to Cape Town so that it could be part of the Cape Town metropolitan area, which it is going to become in any case, without problems relating to costs and transportation and the whole physical infrastructure of a new city. On that score, therefore, it is not going to get off the ground.

Secondly, there is no prospect whatsoever of Dassenberg fulfilling the Government’s claim that it will be a self-contained city. I must say that I am surprised and a little shocked at the hon. the Minister’s statement that this is the intention. I am surprised at the Divisional Council which with the approval of the department has said that this is going to be a self-contained city built in virgin territory. This is not so. It cannot become a city of that nature because there is no intrinsic growth factor which could stimulate urban development to the required extent. As I have said, it is outside of both the Cape Town and the Saldanha Bay metropolitan areas and in order to grow into a city it is going to have to compete with Cape Town during its growth period. This is quite impossible except at prohibitively high cost. The Government is not able to spend that amount of money. I think that this House should take note of the fact that the planners themselves have said that it cannot be an independent city. Whatever the hon. the Minister or Mr. Heyns, MPC, or the Divisional Council may say, the report of the planners must be read. The planners are the Divisional Council and the Minister’s own planning consultants. They have made it quite clear that even at most optimistic best, when that city is completed anything between 47% and 68% of the people are going to work outside of Dassenberg and that to a large extent they are going to work in Cape Town. In other words, by the year 2000 when there are 355 000 people resident in Dassenberg, 83 445 workers, 59% of the total work force, will be employed outside of Dassenberg mainly in the Cape Town metropolitan area. You cannot have a city under those circumstances. It is largely going to be a dormitory. On the planners’ own most optimistic estimates, only 41% of the people can be employed in Dassenberg and the balance are going to be employed outside. Therefore, there can be no prospect of its being self-contained and neither can it be administered as a self-contained city. It will have to be administered as an integral part of the Cape metropolitan complex.

Thirdly, I believe that there is also very little prospect of Dassenberg’s becoming a satellite town at the tempo envisaged in this report in order to cater for the population overspill from Cape Town. That is at best what the Government can hope to achieve and I say that there is very little prospect of its being achieved. How do you attract people to virgin veld 45 miles from the central business district of a place like Cape Town? What attracts people? First of all workers are attracted if there is work for them to do and with the workers come their dependants. One must ask oneself what the prospects are of attracting workers in those numbers. In the first instance, work will have to be created by industries. Once again the planners—these are the public and the private planners employed by the Government—made it quite clear that for it to grow at the average rate at which it is hoped that it will grow from now onwards Dassenberg will have to attract 18% of the total industrial growth of the Cape metropolitan area. One out of five and a half new factories built in the Cape area will have to be built in Dassenberg. If that is not done, then the anticipated growth will not materialize. The planners themselves have said: “This analysis is based upon several suppositions which at this stage cannot be fully motivated.” This is in the report that has been submitted and the hon. the Minister knows it. The experts, the planners employed by the Government have said: “We cannot say with any assurance that this will take place because our assessment is based on several suppositions which at this stage cannot be fully motivated.” How do you take 18% of industrial expansion out of Cape Town and dump it in Dassenberg? By giving incentives? Sir, will the incentives which are being given offset the problem of distance and the limited services which are available there compared with the close proximity of Cape Town and the services available in Cape Town? Secondly, how long are these incentives going to last? Do they stretch indefinitely into the future, or are they limited in time, thus bringing uncertainty as far as the industrialist is concerned? How can you expect industrialists to move to that area when the planners will tell you that there is enough land within the Cape metropolitan area for industrial expansion until the end of this century? There is no shortage of land for industrial expansion within the metropolitan area of Cape Town. There is adequate industrial land, if not housing land, until at least the turn of the century. How are you going to attract the Coloured industrial workers to Dassenberg, and how are you going to attract White management there? The report points out that at least 4 000 White people will be required in managerial and technical positions within industry, let alone administrative positions, in order to enable the new town to function. How are you going to attract people down to Dassenberg against the exciting magnet of Cape Town? Sir, these are problems. You cannot take out commerce and finance because these will remain in the CBD of Cape Town. You can take certain Government departments, but the Government is busy building another magnet at Bellville. It has built a university at Bellville and it has built a Parliament of sorts at Bellville. Sir, these things become the focal points. Are you going to compete with Bellville South by taking a few provincial buildings out to Dassenberg? Sir, most of the workers are going to work in Cape Town. Why should people move from Cape Town to Dassenberg in order to come back to work in Cape Town? They will only move if there are certain physical or economic advantages. The city of Dassenberg will have to be more attractive than the city of Cape Town in the form of its housing, in the form of its urban design and in the extent of its amenities, such as schools, churches, créches, shops, dry-cleaners, cinemas, for those people who have to move to Dassenberg but nevertheless must work in Cape Town. Sir, there is no indication of planning on this scale.

Fourthly, I ask the Government to stop, because I do not believe that the Government at this stage has made a thorough and proper study of the major problems involved in this scheme, let alone found a solution to these problems. Sir, I could mention a few problems on which I believe the Government is not in a position to give us any information. First of all, there is the question of cost. Is there an overall projection of costs for his scheme, even in the next five years, left alone the next ten? Has it studied the capital cost of housing, of facilities and of services? A sum of R1¾ million has been earmarked for some limited services at the present stage, but what about the total cost? Garden Cities announced yesterday that they were starting a new Coloured housing scheme for 10 000 Coloureds, and they said that this would cost between R50 to R60 million. What about Dassenberg, which in the next 10 years is going to have 60 000 people? Has the Government budgeted for R300 or R360 million just for the capital costs? What about the cost of attracting industry by offering incentives? Sir, that is a costly business, because one is losing revenue from taxation. What about the cost of linking Dassenberg with all the important services such as power, water and transportation? I am dealing with the question of costs only. Each worker in Dassenberg will have to travel 40 km a day more—20 km a day in each direction—than he would have had to travel if this city had been established at Melkbosstrand or thereabouts. You will have 52 000 people travelling an additional 2,2 km every day. Apart from the cost of travel, there is the cost of time spent in travelling. The second problem is that the Government has not yet resolved the problem of transportation. As I said earlier, most of the people will be working outside of Dassenberg. If you want to use the consultants’ figures, then 66 756 will be commuting to Cape Town or the Cape metropolitan area each day. It is said that this will in five years’ time involve using 682 motor-cars, 68 buses and eight trains. In 25 years’ time it will involve 4 589 cars, 458 buses and 50 trains. Sir, the hon. the Minister knows that the Railways have told him that they cannot provide these services during the next 10 years at least. They can provide only one or two passenger services per day; they said they could provide goods traffic, but not train traffic during the next 12 or 15 years at least This amount of traffic, he knows, involves six tracks of railway lines, and he knows that there is no plan at the moment, no scheme whereby this traffic can be brought beyond Milnerton into Cape Town. Every diagrammatic scheme stops just there followed by the statement that there is a bottle-neck. You cannot proceed to build a city of half a million people until you have worked out how you are going to get them to their places of work.

Sir, my time is running out and I just want to add that I do not believe the Government has tackled the ecological problem. The area concerned here is ecologically fragile, and the Minister knows it. It is a sandy area—partly stabilized and partly shifting sand—and he has not gone into ways of preventing the whole area from becoming so fragmented and so powdery that it will start to Shift. He knows that whereas in the Cape Flats there is a rainfall of 800 mm a year which is helpful, in this area the rainfall is less than 200 mm. You have, therefore, to all intents and purposes semi-desert conditions there with the result that water for gardening and landscaping will have to be brought there at great additional cost.

My last point is that this is an immense project. I think hon. members should realize that we are talking of a city of half a million people; we are talking of a city in the next 25 years bigger than Kimberley, Bloemfontein or East London. And yet I would say that this is figuratively being planned on the back of a cigarette box; I do not say this by way of criticism of the planning team, although the planning team is inadequate. Could the hon. the Minister tell us how many people are engaged in planning this project for half a million people? Can you imagine what it would be like to decide to build a city like Port Elizabeth and to have to take decisions two years ago about appointing consultants, etc., and saying: “Abracadabra! There is now a plan for a new city”? I believe that the planning team is being forced into making decisions because of the political and the ideological pressures, decisions which are not sound decisions in terms of town planning for urban development. Secondly, I do not believe that there is any strong controlling authority. There is an amorphous committee, the Mamre Development Committee, but how do you construct a town under the authority of a committee representing various interest groups? The Minister knows that there have been recommendations, and he knows that there should be a Dassenberg Development Corporation which has total responsibility, which has a budget, and which in due course will provide the infrastructure for the running and the administration of the town.

Finally, in this area of forced planning of an instant city there has been no consultation with the Coloured people themselves. I put it to the Minister earlier when I asked him what planning and what discussions there were with the CPRC and he said there was consultation at the time this area was declared a group area. That was in 1970. At that stage, and even today, the Mamre rural council is opposed to this scheme. It objected to the industrial scheme and wanted that land included for rural purposes, not for industrial purposes. So, even the consultation he had with the Mamre people was in conflict with the decision which was finally taken. Secondly, as far as the CPRC is concerned, he consulted them this year on the name. They apparently said “Atlantis”, but he gaily goes on calling it Dassenberg. The fact is that there have been recommendations that the CPRC should be directly involved, that three members of the CPRC should be serving on the Development Corporation, but the Minister has not acceded to that. I put it to him that this is not going to be a self-contained city. I should like to see some success for this city as a satellite town but the possible outcome of the way in which it is being undertaken at the moment is that it is going to be a vast sub-economic slum. It is going to aggravate the problem of the whole Cape Peninsula area. I ask the hon. the Minister to swallow his pride and to forget that it was the brain child of his department and to sit back and have a look, a very serious look, at the economic, the social and all the town-planning implications in this scheme, because I believe that as it is proceeding at the present moment, it is going to be a disaster instead of an asset to the Western Cape region.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Sea Point gave us a display again today. I am convinced that the hon. member did not take the trouble to look at the guide plan of the area he tried to describe here. He always makes the same kind of speech, he simply uses a different text each time. The hon. member spoke about a dilemma, but it is clear to me that he is heading for a dilemma in that another leader is going to enter his party shortly. As did the hon. member for Amanzimtoti, the hon. member quoted certain figures and statistics. The hon. member for Amanzimtoti referred to a speech I made under the Bantu Administration and Development Vote. I want to invite him in a friendly spirit to read more than just the introductory part of the speech.

†It is quite obvious that the Opposition parties use statistics just like a drunk man uses a lamp post—for support rather than for illumination.

*I should like to express a few ideas relating to the subject of statistics under this Vote. The original meaning of the term “statistics” was more or less “figures of the State”, viz. they were in regard to numerical data concerning subjects such as the size of the population, births and deaths. However, in time, the limited meaning of this concept fell away because at present the popular view is that it refers to tables, figures and graphs on any particular subject. The technical meaning of the term “statistics”, however, is a great deal more comprehensive. Particularly in the present century, it has become steadily more essential to place the methods of analysis and the processes by means of which conclusions may be drawn, on a scientific basis by means of statistical data. Whereas originally the task of the statistician was the collection and classification of data, today this is subordinate, in a certain sense, to his major task as the distiller of valid information and data. Governmental bodies and private enterprises are daily faced with situations requiring decisions. Where statistics are available reflecting the state of the national economy in its various facets in numerical values, this makes the task of those who have to take the decisions so much easier. The calculable results of specific action, and whether the desired result will be achieved, can be determined with a reasonable degree of certainty. That is why “statistics” is sometimes defined as the science that teaches how wise decisions should be made in situations of uncertainty.

The Department of Statistics, the Republic’s central statistical organization responsible for the collection, processing and publication of statistics, has already made outstanding progress. A wide field is covered. In fact, the statistics cover all the important aspects of the economic, social and democratic characteristics of our domestic economy. The department goes even further and calculates derived statistics, too, which are necessary in order to compile the national accounts of the country such as, inter alia, the calculations of the gross domestic and gross geographic product and also input and output tables. The existing publications of the department, and other available data as well, cover basically the analytical statistics for the above statistical fields. The statistics are purposive and in most of the statistical series, provide sufficient historical data for purposes of analysis, but also provide very recent data at a sufficiently early stage to allow critical appreciation of the present economic and social conditions in the most important fields. Looking at the publications, it occurs to one that the Opposition very often asks unnecessary questions in this House. This would not be necessary if they were only to take the trouble to look at these. The population census is the most important survey providing basic data concerning all the inhabitants of the country. Population statistics provide, inter alia, the scope and quality in terms of age, educational qualifications and occupation of the manpower of all our population groups in the country. Other basic characteristics of the population which are of great importance, are statistics concerning income, distribution, mother tongue, citizenship, industrial classifications and place of employment.

I want to refer briefly to four important departmental statistical series which are available. The first is agriculture. The annual agricultural census provides details of agricultural employment opportunities, production in agriculture, crops, cattle breeding and selected current and non-recurring items of capital expenditure. The second series concerns mining, factories, construction and electricity. Censuses and surveys are regularly carried out to determine gross yield, sales, employment opportunities, salaries and so on in order to reflect qualitatively the structure and the role of the enterprises concerned in the industrial sector of the country’s economy as well. A third series concerns trade, transport and services, and a fourth, social statistics. The latter series incorporates figures relating to a number of social services such as education, labour, prices of goods and services. Periodic surveys of, for example, the expenditure pattern in the economy are also carried out This forms the basic index of the department which enjoys high priority, viz. the consumer index.

I should just like to indicate, briefly and modestly, certain requirements in regard to the covering of statistical fields in order to compile the statistical requirements of the national economy, something which I fee] requires attention. Firstly I want to refer to the issue of social indices. As regards the social characteristics, for example the success ro lack of success of the activities aimed at promoting the welfare of the community, there is still an insufficient number of indices. Social indices must be developed to indicate, inter alia, the individual in the living conditions of the community such as, for example, health and education, successful competition in private life and satisfactory working conditions. For the purposes of these indices, more meaningful statistics should be compiled concerning such matters as, inter alia, factors influencing the growth and geographic distribution, the family make-up of the population, educational facilities and educational achievements and efficiency, services and employment opportunities, housing, health and health services public and social security and welfare. Some of these matters are already well covered, but have not yet been systematically correlated, while others have not yet been developed. What I want to emphasize here in particular, is systematic correlation of these factors with each other.

A second aspect which I shall touch on is that of environmental statistics. I believe that this relatively new development needs to be considered urgently, because in this, as in other statistical fields, the data to be collected must be determined purposively, with the customary definition of the concepts, the classification and the tabulation required for the planning of and pollution-free continued existence in the environment. The statistics here must form a basis for the studies of the quality condition of the various natural elements and artificial elements and of their effect on human activity, and vice versa. It will also have to provide data for the study of preventative and remedial activities.

Possibly the department should also be placed in a better position to undertake specific ad hoc investigations. I have in mind, for example, the matter of polls, which have also undoubtedly become part of our way of life. Opinion polls ate an extremely specialized process requiring scientific insight and knowledge and definitely ought not to be carried out by anyone other than well-equipped scientists. Only acknowledged, statistically based methods ought to be used. They must also meet the requirement of randomness. They must afford every opportunity for a true opinion. There ought really to be no dispute as regards the interpretation of the results. There must be objectivity as well. I wonder whether it is not perhaps advisable to establish and develop this specific aspect on an autonomous basis within the department, or perhaps outside it.

I realize that what I have said so far will require more funds and properly trained and scientifically equipped manpower. Nevertheless, I feel that it is essential that this department continue to be provided with the necessary technical and administrative manpower, machine power and facilities to build up knowledge, apply it and be in a position to provide more sophisticated statistics. Manpower is limited and the programme of activities has to be adjusted accordingly, and we shall require a growing number of qualified staff. In my opinion, people who have to choose a profession come into contact with statistics and their interpretation at too late a stage.

In conclusion, I want to say that the statistics and statistical service of the Republic compare exceptionally well with those abroad, and sound international comparisons and evaluations of the conditions in and position of our country can therefore be drawn. The department deserves our sincere praise for this, and I believe that the department can only grow in size and in importance. After all, it is still the minutes of and the agenda for the activities of a national economy.

Mr. Chairman, in the short time left before the adjournment for lunch, I want to reply to a few matters which were raised here by hon. members. I should like to thank hon. members for their contributions, and for the way in which these have been presented to us. I want to tell the hon. member for Hillbrow that I appreciate the positive approach which he displayed as the first speaker on the Opposition side.

The hon. member pointed out the importance of the department and the part which it is playing, and is increasingly being called upon to play, in the national economy. The hon. member discussed the vast projects which South, Africa is tackling at the moment, and the effect which these will of necessity have on the physical territory of the country, as well as the growing responsibility of the Department of Planning to ensure that the future is correctly ordered and arranged. I am in full agreement with the hon. member. All these additional responsibilities make enormous demands. The work of my department, of my officials and I, is perhaps not often done in the limelight, and perhaps we do not seek the limelight either, but I can honestly say that nothing happens in South Africa in which, we do not become involved in some way or another. It is true that the department will require more officials, but I nevertheless think that with the people we have—to whom I wish to pay great tribute today—we are doing a good piece of planning work.

The hon. member also referred to the many committees which there are, and asked whether we are able to keep abreast of them. I should like to mention as an illustration the very recent decision of the Government that a second Sasol should be established in South Africa. With, its usual procedure my department immediately appointed an auxiliary committee, after matters had begun to crystallize, to do the interim physical planning of the area in which the second Sasol will be established with surveys and the necessary consultation. Naturally we have, at this stage, involved only certain bodies, including Sasol of course, and other Government departments. We appointed a committee for this purpose, and this is the point I wish to make, namely that once the locality in which the enterprise will be established has been made known, we shall involve other bodies such as local bodies in the vicinity, and so on. This is a committee which has to deal properly with the physical effect of one of the vast projects in South Africa, so that the good agricultural land will be retained, so that there is the necessary co-ordination in respect of transportation, the building of roads, the establishment of the mine, the establishment of towns, etc.

This comprises an entire blueprint for an area, in other words a guide plan for a subregion of our country. The same procedure was followed with the major undertaking at Saldanha. After Saldanha had been decided upon we appointed a guide plan committee in which everyone with a developmental-planning function there was involved. My department does not do this work alone. Admittedly it supplies the chairman of such committees, but we get together all the people who, with their resources and knowledge, are able to make contributions, and jointly a blueprint for the specific area is then compiled.

Hon. members know that we publish the first Saldanha plan with, the purpose of obtaining comment. We hope to release the second Saldanha plan on 5 June. As far as we can see at this stage, it is hoped that this will be the final Saldanha plan, but with this I am not implying that it is not possible that further amendments to it may be effected. I could mention other similar cases as well. This explains where there are so many committees. Recently we appointed an auxiliary committee to consider the mountain regions of South Africa. Previously there was a committee which specifically considered the Drakensberg catchment area, and hon. members from Natal know that this committee did consider this matter and published a very good report.

This committee has now, however, been expanded to consider all the mountain regions of South Africa and to make a survey of these regions. It goes without saying that the Departments of Agricultural Credit and Land Tenure, of Agricultural Technical Services, of Forestry, of Water Affairs and of Planning and the Environment, as well as the provincial administrations—in fact, all that could in any way make a contribution—are represented on the committee. In due course, then, a plan will be produced for the conservation of the mountain regions of South. Africa, and then the work of the committee will have been completed. After that it is the function of my department to ensure that all bodies act in accordance with the guidelines of the plan. Incidentally, there is also a subcommittee which has to consider the mountains of the Southern Cape, and the recommendations of this subcommittee could of course be included in the report of the principal committee.

At present we are also engaged in an investigation of the coastal areas of South Africa. In this regard I want to point out that the provincial administrations have done, and are still doing, very valuable work. When my department has completed its task, it is the responsibility of the bodies concerned to implement the blueprint and to do the necessary work involved, for the principal function of my department is merely to establish order and co-ordination.

However, this function is gradually expanding, for, to an increasing extent, we are having to investigate the entire physical terrain of South Africa. I believe that if my department sets about this work in the correct manner, and is able to succeed in gaining the confidence and co-operation of the private as well as the public sector, it will be able to render a service of inestimable value to South Africa as far as the future development of our country is concerned. There are problems which have to be solved, for as we heard today, South Africa’s population is increasing rapidly, and the residential and occupational requirements of this population have to be met.

I can point out to the hon. member for Hillbrow that we do not intend to centralize to too great an extent, but, from the nature of the case, we have to centralize our planning programme. We cannot allow Iscor to plan as it likes in Saldanha, nor can we allow the municipalities of Saldanha and Vredenburg to plan as they like in their areas. We bring everyone together, and to that extent there is centralization. I believe this is very necessary, and in my opinion it is producing good results. Upon completion of the work, my department steps back, and no further centralization takes place.

The hon. member for Smithfield discussed the position of the rural areas. I admire his earnestness, and the fact that it is a matter of such deep concern to him. He made certain suggestions which I do not want to go into now. Some of them may be practical and some not, but this matter is one of deep concern to him. The Government is also in earnest about this matter, and I can say that certain aspects of the problem of our small rural towns, are at present receiving attention from the Government. When we have made more progress we could perhaps discuss the matter again next year. There is something I wish to mention, for the sake of the record, because I do not want any misunderstanding to arise in this regard. I want to give our small towns an assurance, if some of them perhaps have the idea that they must disappear, for this is not the policy. I quote what I myself said in the foreword to the National Physical Development Plan—

I also want to refer to page 14 of this National Physical Development Plan, on which our planners have the following to say—

In other words, the Government is not unsympathetic towards our small towns. On the contrary; the Government is positively sympathetic towards them.

The hon. member for Kuruman sketched a picture of the future for us in respect of the population increase in our country among the Various population groups. He said that urgent planning was necessary. On that score we are in complete agreement with him. My department accepts that to a large extent we are the architect of this planning. We are engaged in it. That was why we came forward with this National Physical Development Plan. We shall implement phase 2, namely the further expansion of this plan, as rapidly as possible. It is already in the process of being implemented, of course, in that all Government bodies have taken cognizance of this, and their actions, their planning and their policy are already being discussed in the light of the guidelines which we have laid down for this country. After that we will of course, as the hon. member as well as other hon. members said, come forward with regional planning to give greater substance to this basic plan which we have released, the National Physical Development Plan. A few hon. members asked us to give priority to certain regions. The hon. member for Kuruman asked us to give priority to regions 1 and 18.

As far as region 1 is concerned, the department has already completed a sub-regional plan, although I must say that it was primarily aimed at the transport requirements of that region. This is the region in Namaqualand including Aggeneis, Pofadder and Bushmenland, in which we have discovered vast mineral deposits, in which a tremendous amount of money is being spent on prospecting and mining development, and in which the need for transportation is exceptionally pressing. We have sent officials to that area and have drawn up a plan. As a result of that the mines have already been assured of water from the Orange River. Therefore, there will be no water problem. Our plan also makes provision for the building of a tarred road, which we are striving to achieve. We are also trying hard to establish a railway link from the mining area to the Sishen-Saldanha railway line. These are the practical results of that planning which, as I have said, was concentrated only on a certain aspect of the region.

As far as region 18 is concerned, I can inform the hon. member for Kuruman that we shall send someone to that area to formulate the basic ideas in co-operation with the development association and the local bodies, on the basis of which we will be able to collect further data and work out something for that region. This is a region which, in my opinion, we have every justification for considering. I did not look it up, but I recall that in the statement made by the Government after we had said that the semis factory would be established in Saldanha, we said that the Department of Planning and the Environment had received instructions to investigate and plan the transportation needs of the Northern and North-Western Cape. Those areas will therefore be investigated, and I think the hon. member will appreciate this.

†The hon. member for Amanzimtoti spoke about regional planning in the Bantu homelands. He asked me why my department does not undertake physical planning in the homelands, since we do undertake economic planning in those areas. The position is that you can have physical planning anywhere. You can have physical planning within the area of jurisdiction of a town council or a city. You can have physical planning in various sub-regions of a province. It is a fact that physical planning takes place in the Bantu homelands. I think that physical planning in the Bantu homelands is concentrated to a great extent on two factors. The one is agricultural planning and the other is township planning. Whenever I travel through the Glen Grey area in my constituency, I am greatly impressed by the improvements that have taken place. Ten years ago the inhabitants lived all over the place, alongside streams, and so on. Good agricultural land was destroyed and there was erosion. Nowadays I see little towns located on hilly ground. That is the sort of planning which I think can only be done by the Department of Bantu Administration and Development. I feel that the physical planning of the Bantu homelands can be well left in the hands of the Department of Bantu Administration. At the moment this mostly involves first-stage planning.

With regard to the EDP, I want to say that that programme is not confined to geographical areas. It is for the country as a whole. It takes cognizance of the capital we have available for South Africa, capital generated by means of internal savings and external investments. It takes cognizance also of our labour force and of our natural resources. On the strength of that it comes to a conclusion and indicates the growth rate for the country as a whole. The two things must not be confused. Within this overall Economic Development Programme, we can of course try to generate as much of this development as possible in certain areas, but that is another matter and relates to the policy of decentralization.

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Moorreesburg has …

Mr. Chairman, may I ask the hon. the Minister a question? I want to apologize for breaking into the hon. the Minister’s speech, but just before the luncheon adjournment the hon. the Minister was replying to the speech I had made earlier on, and arising out of his reply, I should like to ask him whether he feels that the physical, social and economic development of any country or any area can be separated?

The point I made is that one must not confuse physical and economic planning. The hon. member referred to the physical planning of certain regions and asked why we have not done the planning in those regions. The argument he used was that we should do it because we do the economic planning, not specifically for that region, but for the whole country. I simply said that the hon. member was perhaps confusing two things. Physical and economic planning are basically complementary. The physical planning of the whole country should, according to me and to my department, tie in with the economic planning of the country. I think that in the next stage of this basic plan we now have, we must try to bring about a conciliation between economic and physical planning. We must try to bring the economic development programme down to regions. Our ideal is to achieve a balanced development of our country. That is why I say that these things are really complementary. However, the economic development programme as we have it at this stage is for the whole country. It takes all the country’s resources into account and tries to work out a growth figure for the whole of South Africa. How this growth figure is made up by the contributions of the various sectors of the economy, and even, e.g. of the various components of the industrial sector of our economy, is another matter. At the moment we take a global view of the economy in compiling the E.D.P. The question of trying to break it down into regions is, I think, something for the future.

*The hon. member for Moorreesburg referred to the Decentralization Board, and advocated that that board should fall under my department. He also advocated that a fixed amount should be voted annually for the Decentralization Board, an amount which the board may in its discretion utilize in the implementation of its policy. Whatever my personal ideas on this matter may be, all that I can say to the hon. member this afternoon is that it rests with the hon. the Prime Minister to decide whether a specific division should be included in a specific Government department. If the hon. member for Moorreesburg feels strongly about this matter, he can, if need be, by means of a personal interview or in some other way, submit his views to the hon. the Prime Minister. With regard to the plea advanced by the hon. member that a fixed amount should be voted for the Decentralization Board, under whatever Department that board falls, I want to say that I am an advocate of that being done. However, it is also a matter of high Government policy, and the Cabinet has to take a decision in this regard. As far as the representation of Coloured persons on the Decentralization Board are concerned, this is a matter for the Minister under whom the Decentralization Board falls at present.

The hon. member also made strong pleas in regard to the southern part of our country in which White and Coloureds are established together, and will have to work out a future jointly. The hon. member knows that our department is constantly taking this important facet of our entire national economy into positive consideration. Criticism was levelled at us from the opposite side today for trying to create developmental axes or lines in the Western Cape, so as not to have everything in the Peninsula complex. We shall not lose sight of what the hon. member said, and we shall possibly, if not this year, then next year, proceed further along this road of identifying growth points and growth poles which the Whites and the Coloureds are able to develop together, to the benefit of us all.

The hon. member for Pretoria East discussed the C.S.I.R. I want to thank him for the fine contribution he made for us on the C.S.I.R. Together with many others I have an extremely high regard for the work which is being done by the C.S.I.R., and the basic research which they are doing for us. There is also the question of the applied research which they are doing both for the Government as well as the private sector. The C.S.I.R. is doing research for a great many Government departments, and of course it is also doing a great deal of research for the private sector. We think that they are making an exceptional contribution, as is attested to by the revenue they are earning themselves, which the hon. member also mentioned. They are also making an exceptional contribution to our universities in the form of research bursaries, etc. When we visit the C.S.I.R. as M.P.s and Senators, the work which is being done there always makes a very great impression on all of us. I do not think there will be a visit this year, but I hope that another visit to the C.S.I.R. can be arranged for M.P.s and Senators next year. I should also like to refer here—the hon. member also mentioned this—to the extraordinary value which the C.S.I.R. has as a link for South Africa with the outside world. The doors of the outside world are, through the C.S.I.R., open to South Africa. There is hardly a conference or anything of a scientific nature which the C.S.I.R. is not invited to attend or to submit papers. I think that although we have found in many spheres that international doors are closed to us, this is the one sphere in which doors are still open to us, and we want to thank the C.S.I.R. for this. Its contribution in future to our homelands and other African countries is fundamentally a splendid idea, and the C.S.I.R., which will read about this discussion in Parliament, will take cognizance of this.

Since I am discussing the C.S.I.R., I also want to refer to the contribution made by the hon. member for Klerksdorp in regard to the Department of Statistics. I want to thank him for telling us something about statistics here. The lower the level of development of any country, the less its need for statistics and the more restricted the field in which it requires statistics or statistical data. On the other hand, the more a country develops, the more it needs statistical data in depth and covering a very wide field for its national economy. One reaches a stage where the public sector cannot plan and make progress, and where the private sector cannot manage without that statistical data either. The statistical data which is made available by the Department of Statistics is being utilized on a very large scale in South Africa. It is being utilized by commerce, by industry, by the universities and even by this Parliament. Hon. members opposite are constantly asking questions, and they will know how many of those questions are being asked for information purposes. This is information which I have to receive from the Department of Statistics in order to furnish them with it. Today I wanted to thank the bodies such as the Statistics Board, which determines policy, the Committee for Statistics, which consists of departmental heads, and then the various sector advisory committees which deal more specifically with the private sector. From time to time, of course, we have the major census, the periodic census, and then, too, the short-term series. I just want to mention a few of these to the hon. members. Under demography there are surveys on population, housing and family structure and human milestones such as births, deaths, marriages and divorces. Under immigration and tourism one has statistics on immigrants and emigrants, as well as on visitors to South Africa. There is the economic series, the manufacturing industry with all its various series. There is construction in South Africa, property developers, the ownership and leasing of property, electricity; there is mining, there is financial statistics and companies, the wholesale and retail trade; there is transportation and related services. Then one still has an entire series such as agriculture, education, family expenditure, and further series covering three pages. Sir, since I am referring to family expenditure, I should just like to mention the following: The consumer price index, as hon. members know, is a basic index which is established. It is an index with a base figure of 100. According to a survey which is then made from time to time. It is determined what weight should be given to foodstuffs, housing education, recreation, medical expenses, each, in that figure of 100. The last survey of this kind we made was in 1966. This survey was made in the nine principal metropolitan areas of our country, and was confined to White families. According to this survey it is then determined how the index will be compiled, in other words, what weight is allocated to the various consumer items. At present we are again engaged in a survey, but we are not only making the survey among the Whites, but also among the Coloureds, Indians and Bantu now. Subsequently, when we worked out the new index on which the consumer price index will be announced from time to time, it will be a base for our entire population, and not only for the White population as is the case with the present index. The possibility exists that we may subsequently have two consumer price indices, one for the income group above a certain notch, and one for the income group below that notch. But this is a matter which will be decided on subsequently when we have all the information at our disposal in about a year’s time.

Furthermore, Sir, I should like to thank the hon. member and also our Department of Statistics for the good work they are doing for our country.

†Sir, I have to react to the remarks of the hon. member for Sea Point. I must say that I was somewhat disappointed at the attitude adopted by the hon. member, because it was completely and absolutely negative. I do not want to suggest that the hon. member had considerations other than purely planning considerations in mind, but I must say that I disagree very much indeed with the hon. member. He introduced various other aspects which, are not very germane to the problem under discussion. For example, he said that the Dassenberg area was a sandy area. We were also told in the past that the Cape Flats was a sandy area. Apparently now the sand on the Cape Flats is acceptable, but the sand at Dassenberg is not acceptable. The hon. member went on to say that about 50% of these people would have to come into Cape Town to work, and he said that Dassenberg was 45 km from Cape Town. The fact of the matter is that using the present roads, the distance is 45 km from Cape Town, but as soon as the west coast road, with which a start has already been made, has been completed, Dassenberg will be about 25 km from Cape Town. If he bases his argument on the distance from Dassenberg to Cape Town, then I would point out to him that Dassenberg will be nearer to Cape Town than the Strand, Somerset West, Stellenbosch, Paarl, Worcester and Malmesbury, and we know that hundreds or thousands of people travel from these centres every day to come and work in Cape Town, but according to the hon. member people must i not come into town from Dassenberg; that is out of the question. The hon. member also says that there is no strong local authority. Of course there is no strong local authority at the moment. What does the hon. member expect? It is just Vacant land. Until recently, there was not even a living soul. Where is a local authority to come from? There is, however, the divisional council of Cape Town, and we could not wish for a better local authority than the divisional council. I do not say that they will be there for ever. Why does the hon. member accept that they will be the local authority for ever? Take Saldanha. At Saldanha we have a local authority of 12 people today, of which I nominate eight; four come from the local people, and as that place progresses there will come a stage when our people will be withdrawn and there will be a local authority in Saldanha Bay in its own right, the same as is happening at Richards Bay. What on earth is wrong with it if we have 10 000 or 20 000 Coloured people living at Dassenberg and they have their local authority? Our people will serve on the developing authority and they will serve with us, and in the course of time we will withdraw and what will remain behind will be a Coloured city council in all its facets. So that is not something which troubles me at all. I would like to ask him not to prejudice the Coloured people against that development. [Interjections.] He will be rendering them a disservice. The hon. member need not fear that there will be no development. The first factory is under construction and the people will move in as soon as it is finished. The second factory has been pegged out and they will start building soon. It is not for me to say who will move in there. But even when these two factories are completed, a couple of hundred people will work there. Altogether ten factories are being built. Even this very morning the divisional council of Cape Town had 40 inquiries from industrialists. I just want to tell the hon. member that I am optimistic. He saw so many spooks today that I feel that he must get the facts right. The hon. member used the report of 1972. Why did he not use the report of 1973, drawn up by the same planners of the divisional council? [Interjections.] The divisional council is a most responsible body. When this project came before them, they asked their planners for a report, and that was the report of 1972, from which the hon. member quoted here at length. But when they started working on this scheme, they became enthusiastic and saw the possibilities, and in 1973 they gave a further report, which is favourable towards this whole development. Sir, that is about all I want to say. All these reservations we heard about this morning, were also expressed when we started at Rosslyn and they were also expressed when we started at Richards Bay and at Saldanha. Now the same doubts are expressed again. The hon. member said this was bad planning. How can it be? Any city, also the city of Cape Town, and even if it does not have a growth pole on another site, has a development axis going out in a certain direction. If there is a growth pole or a metropolitan axis on the other site, there is a big axis between those two metropolitan areas. Dassenberg and Darling—where we also have development—lie right in the centre of this axis. We can have meaningful new development for the people of the Western Cape as the hon. member for Moorreesburg has mentioned. What is the alternative? The hon. member for Sea Point spoke as if 500 000 people would already be living at Dassenberg next year. Of course it is not the case. The city will consist of ten towns and we are only starting with the first town. Surely the transport and the employment position will be able to cope with the first town. As the town develops, as it expands and as the services grow, the next town will be developed. The whole scheme will grow in a co-ordinated, orderly way. The alternative which the hon. member envisages is that the 500 000 people who are going to live there will have to live in the metropolitan area of Cape Town. They can have all their facilities there. They can get swimming-baths and restaurants which they cannot always get here, as the hon. member will know. I tell hon. members that I make no excuses for the Dassenberg development. I envisage that the Dassenberg development will be one of the success stories of the Western Cape. For the first time we have succeeded in getting decentralization benefits for the Western Cape. Is that not wonderful? The hon. member says that there is much vacant industrial land in Cape Town, but we would never have got such a scheme for Cape Town. Nevertheless we got it for Dassenberg and I think that that is something very special for the Western Cape. For that reason I say to the hon. member that I cannot disagree with him more.

Mr. Chairman, in his reply to this debate, the hon. the Minister made a few interesting statements. In the first place I must convey my appreciation to him for having quoted from his foreword to the National Physical Development Plan, and for the following quotation from page 14—

I am very grateful that the hon. the Minister read out that specific quotation again for the record, because I just want to put it to the hon. the Minister that in the last ten years or so, Grahamstown has lost a wool research institute, part of its Supreme Court and the divisional headquarters of the Police, and now we are going to lose the SABC. These things have already been lost, but all I want to ask the hon. the Minister now is to give us something by using his influence with the hon. the Minister of Justice. What we request is a deeds office for Grahamstown. The hon. the Minister made a further interesting statement but I shall come to that later. The hon. the Minister replied twice to the hon. member for Amanzimtoti who, when his time expired, was referring to the White migration to the cities and the resultant depopulation of the platteland during the economic and industrial revolution that followed on the findings of the Carnegie Commission and the subsequent war years. However, his point was that tills process was irreversible and that the same process was now taking place among our non-White people, and particularly our Bantu peoples. The hon. member wants to know what the identity of these people is going to be in the overall scheme of the Government’s policy, whether they will be able to develop a true pride and patriotism within their own identity or whether they will be doomed for ever to be aliens in the country of their birth. The hon. member also referred to a tragic precedent concerning aliens (uitlanders) we have had here in South Africa, and politely asked the hon. the Minister to face the fact of the irreversibility of our economic development and try to find a solution through his responsible post in the Cabinet.

The hon. member for Pretoria East, too, made a speech, which linked up with this statement by the hon. member for Amanzimtoti, in which he referred to the C.S.I.R. It seems as if the Minister agrees with the hon. member in regard to the important role the C.S.I.R. could play in the economic development of the homelands. I, too, entirely agree that the C.S.I.R. could play an important key role there. However, here I must refer to section 13 of the Physical Planning Act, which excludes the homeland areas from the provisions of that Act. I am aware that I may not criticize existing legislation in this Committee, but since there is amending legislation before us which must still be discussed, I avail myself of this opportunity to advance a few positive ideas.

The Department of Planning has a committee for the establishment of border industries. We also have the C.S.I.R. The IDC, again, falls under the Department of Economic Affairs, whereas the BIC and the XDC fall under the Department of Bantu Administration and Development.

These are all interwoven organizations with the aim of encouraging and developing industries and businesses in areas which still form part of South Africa today. I note that in the amending legislation provision is made for guide plan committees and that the hon. the Minister may use his discretion to appoint certain persons to those committees. I believe that consideration could be given to involving these organizations I have mentioned, as well as the Department of Bantu Administration and Development or a homeland Government—it depends how the homeland Governments have developed—in the activities of these guide planning committees in certain areas. Things could go wrong very easily. In his reply the hon. the Minister said that the planning of towns in the homelands was really the concern of the Department of Bantu Administration and Development.

I now want to refer to region No. 10 of the National Physical Development Plan, of the Department of Planning and the Environment, which reads as follows—

Here an actual fact is stated. I agree with what he said here, although I should have liked to see a little development around Grahamstown. However, when the Department of Bantu Administration and Development took over the planning, they were not aware of this guide plan at any stage.

They only planned for a town at a place by the name of Committees. There is no railway line at this place, not even a branch line, and it is even worse than Grahamstown. There are no raw materials there either, and in this respect, too, Grahamstown is better since at Grahamstown we at least have kaolin and day. There is not even a tarred road there, and in that regard, too, Grahamstown is better. This is in conflict with the National Physical Development Plan, and I therefore plead that the hon. the Minister, through the Department of Planning and the amending legislation to be passed, will involve the other bodies such as the Department of Bantu Administration and Development in his department so that sound planning may be carried out, not only for White South Africa, but for all the peoples of South Africa, in order to ensure that they can live alongside us in peace in accordance with properly planned guidelines.

I am sorry to have so much to say about this, but if there had been proper co-operation between the departments and if there had been a guide plan committee in which the Department of Planning, for which I have great respect, could have been involved, we should never have had the degree of confusion we have today concerning these proposals in the Eastern Cape.

I want to ask, too, that the entire area, and the coastal area, too, be very carefully investigated in co-operation with the Department of Water Affairs with a view to a sound regional water scheme for the coastal areas. I note from the report that there are a few small towns along the coast which are being borne in mind for recreational facilities. Those small towns are growing steadily. In the past year, two of them have developed from village management boards to municipalities. I know that there is an acute shortage of water. There are, however, subterranean water resources that could be investigated. I must say that those small towns could be developed with a view to tourism. The tourist industry could find a place alongside the farming industry.

I make this plea seriously and with feeling. We in the Eastern Cape do not have the necessary raw materials, but we do have the necessary human material to be able to develop, and we also have the will to develop. Where there is the necessary will, progress can be made and I believe that the Eastern Cape will eventually get everything which we expect from the hon. the Minister and the Government.

Mr. Chairman, I should like to make a modest contribution in regard to physical planning. In the first place, I want to associate myself with the hon. member for Kuruman, who referred to the National Physical Development Plan and congratulated the hon. the Minister and his department on the plan and the statistics for the various planning regions. I think that this is really a major task. In fact, it is an indication to us of what we can expect in even the far distant future. It is a thorough and comprehensive task. In the second place I should like to thank the hon. the Minister and his department for the way in which they lent an indulgent ear to my voters and I concerning the physical planning of the south of Johannesburg. They gave us the finest co-operation, too, and the aim of my contribution this afternoon is to gain the ear of the hon. the Minister even more easily in the future than I have been able to do in the past. Bearing that in mind, I want to impart some interesting information in regard to the composition of the various race groups in my constituency.

The constituency I represent is, in fact, a microcosm of South Africa as far as the composition of its population is concerned. In my constituency there are about 60 000 Whites; more than 57 000 Coloureds and more than 40 000 Indians are also accommodated there. More than a million Bantu are accommodated in Soweto. All this is within the boundaries of my constituency. I heard that the hon. member for Moorreesburg said this morning that the population of Soweto is already 1¼ million. I bow to his superior knowledge. If that is true, it is worse than I had thought up to now. This gives us an idea of the composition of the population groups in that small, limited area which is my constituency. It will also interest hon. members that I venture to say that I have about 90% of the Coloureds in the prescribed area of Johannesburg in my constituency. It will also interest you to know that 50% of all the Indians in Transvaal are accommodated in my constituency, viz. in Lenasia, and that 82,5% of the Bantu in the prescribed area of Johannesburg live within the boundaries of this constituency.

The department issued a Press statement recently through the Secretary for Planning concerning the work done by the guide plan committee under the chairmanship of Mr. Van Wyk relating to the planning of the Grasmere/Lawley/Lenasia/ Nancefield complex. In the introductory paragraph it is stated that according to the population projection, in the year 2000 there will be about 100 000 Coloureds and 150 000 Indians living to the south-west of Johannesburg. It is unnecessary to say that although some of them will be living in the constituency of my colleague, the hon. member for Meyerton, most of them, as is the case now, will be living in my constituency. This gives you an idea of the extent of this matter. This is the reason for my interest in physical planning for the various population groups in my constituency.

However, I should very much like to draw the attention of the hon. the Minister to another matter which is of great importance to me. I am not trying to score political points here, nor am I trying to make political capital out of it, but I want to refer to the role of the Johannesburg City Council in the physical planning of the areas south of Johannesburg. Clearly the Johannesburg City Council is the local authority which administers those areas which fall within its jurisdiction and I have no fault to find with that. The Johannesburg City Council deals with these matters and, as far as community development and the funds of the National Housing Commission are concerned, they have to spend money to provide housing for certain population groups. The matter I want to bring to the attention of the hon. the Minister is the fact that over the past 20 years, the Johannesburg City Council has made attempts to foster unrest—perhaps without meaning to do so.

No, they did mean to do so.

They tried to obtain pieces of land from the proclaimed White areas on which to accommodate other population groups. I want to mention a few examples, and I want to ask the hon. the Minister to point out to these people in future that if they want to consult with him and other Cabinet Ministers concerning certain representations they wish to make, they should at least keep these matters private and confidential until decisions have been taken about them. I want to tell hon. members what happened in my constituency. South of Johannesburg there are two areas where this kind of thing took place. The one was a White pleasure resort called Van Wyksrust. It has nothing to do with me, but it is a White pleasure resort. They were very insistent that the hon. the Minister should give his permission that this should suddenly become a pleasure resort for Coloureds. It is situated inside a White residential area and it is a White pleasure resort. This caused a great deal of unrest.

A second case was that they wanted to expand the existing Coloured area, Eldorado Park, by taking a piece of land from the White area. While they were still negotiating with the hon. the Minister and the department, in some way, through discussions in the City Council, they allowed that matter to be leaked. It got into the Press and the people became restless. I want to point out to you—and I have evidence from my White voters—that some of the Coloureds came to them wanting to look at their houses because they had heard there was a possibility that they could buy them or live in them in the future. Hon. members will realize how much unrest that caused. A further example is the case of Claremont in the urban area to the north. In this case, too, the City Council of Johannesburg came to the Minister and requested that a White housing scheme be utilized for Coloureds. This, too, is a matter that goes back 20 years. Twenty years ago we had to object strenuously to the idea that a section of Claremont which is in a proclaimed White area be taken for Coloureds so that there would only be a street separating the Whites and the Coloureds. For the information of my friend, the hon. member for Moorreesburg, I want to say that the situation in the Transvaal as far as Coloureds are concerned, is somewhat different to that here in the Cape Province. There we still have spaces, and enough of it for everyone to live alongside each other in peace, and we need not have them living mixed up together as they are here. What happened there was that they launched this campaign and a great deal of unrest was caused by the idea that this part would be taken over by Coloureds. The same phenomenon occurred there, viz. that Coloureds came to the houses of Whites saying that they were coming to look at the houses because they were going to live there one day. In the meantime we have been in the firing line in this regard and hon. members will realize that this caused unrest among both the Whites and the other population groups. Hon. members will realize for themselves that if other population groups are under the impression that they will perhaps be moved to a part which is still a White area and they take trouble and make inquiries, only to find out that the information is false, then there will be unrest. I want to make a very earnest appeal to the hon. the Minister to investigate this matter and in some way to get the local managements, which must necessarily deal with the matter, not to blurt out these matters prematurely and publicize them, in order that unrest among the various population groups may be avoided. Once that is done, I hope that we shall be rid of this problem in the future.

Mr. Chairman, I listened to the hon. member for Sea Point and I was deeply disappointed. It hurt me to learn in this House that the Progressive Party is not interested in housing for the Coloureds.

That is the utmost rubbish.

We must not take the hon. member seriously, because he is one of seven and he sits at the back over there. The hon. member is now going to be one of eleven, and his intelligence will bring him right to the back. Therefore, I have no part in his frustrations, and nor do I want to conduct a dialogue with him.

†The Progressive Party has now taken a line of verkramptheid as never before. It has always been possible for them to buy their separateness in every city and in every place, wherever they have been, and now they have failed miserably, because they are faced with a situation where people want to come to Sea Point. The hon. member for Sea Point and the so-called leader of the party—we cannot call them a party at all but a conglomerate of people …

What a brilliant speech!

Thank you, Helen. The hon. member for Houghton very seldom gives anyone credit. They have failed miserably. They are not a party, but they will have a leader soon because the hon. member for Yeoville is at least somebody on whom you can rely to lead you anyway.

*The United Party at least has a standpoint, whether it be right or wrong. The Progressive Party had a standpoint in the hon. member for Houghton, but has lost it. That party has disrobed itself by its new development, and now stands alone and naked before the non-Whites of South Africa as people who do not have an ideology and who despise the non-Whites, and do not want them near them. Let us read what the hon. member for Sea Point said:

†He is referring to the dominance of Cape Town by Black people and by Brown people.

He did not say that at all.

But that is the meaning of it.

Wait a minute, it is not only a question of “meaning”; these are his true words.

You do not understand it.

I can quite grant you that you do not understand it; you might understand it next week. In any case, that is not important either.

*The important problem in South Africa is that people such as the National Party, who believe in the development and recovery of a broken people, such as the Coloured people, are not allowed to do constructive work through planning, in accordance with its views.

†The Progressive Party are trying to pull strings to make people feel that this country is not for them. Have the hon. members ever been to a country such as Israel and seen Tel Aviv, a city built on sand out of the greatness of people?

[Inaudible.]

Please, sister, will you be quiet? [Interjections.]

Call her “Grannie”.

I always call her “sister”, because we understand each other sometimes.

*In Israel, one finds a city such as Tel Aviv which has been built on sand, but not of sand. It has been built by the will of a people. The National Party will govern South Africa with or without the Progressive Party. We shall not listen to them or be forced a single foot to the left or the right. We have chosen a course, and we shall follow it. We shall plan for the future of our people, Brown and others.

What does Water-berg say?

The hon. member wants to know what Waterberg says. The voice of South Africa is the voice of Waterberg, of the Cape Flats, of Grahamstown and also of Walmer.

Now you are spoiling your whole case.

Yes, perhaps I should not have included Walmer. [Interjections.] One can see leadership talent immediately. I agree with the hon. member for Hillbrow that I should not have mentioned Walmer. I made a mistake and I apologize.

In South Africa, we are engaged on a housing task. A people which has no housing, cannot survive. Is it not the Progressive Party which comes to inquire at the walls of Jericho every day to find out when we are going to make housing available to the squatters on the Cape Flats? But when we do house them, that party crucifies us. They do not want them to be housed; they do not want them to be happy. They are not allowed to walk through Pinelands; they must walk round it.

Why?

Because the hon. member for Pinelands, who belongs to the Progressive Party, does not want the disturbance of Bantu and Coloureds in Pinelands.

†Let us analyse this party—a growth in our country’s history. I would not call it a cancer because one could cut that out. But we may we not have an opportunity in the next five minutes to perform a proper operation on them.

There is no growth in your party.

No? [Interjections.]

*I used the word “growth” in the sense of a growth (groeisel). There are no growths in my party. These exist in the Progressive Party. It is a growth and an appendage of the United Party. It is still the appendage of that party today. [Interjections.] The Progressive Party must not try to interrupt me to evade the fact that they are the racists in our national politics today.

If you believe that, you will believe anything.

They are the racists who have always tried to stay on the lighter side of the scale and to swing to the top. When we were dealing with housing for Whites, we were asked, “Why not for Bantu?” Once we dealt with Bantu housing, they wanted to know, “Why not for Coloureds?” Now that we are building a city for the Coloureds, where every parent can bring up his child and have their children with him in the evenings, where can be community facilities—I agree, perhaps on sand—they make a fuss about it again. Have they ever lived where they do not have a house? Have they every lived in the sand without a roof over their head? That is what they say happens on the Cape Flats, where the squatters come in. We are trying to do something. Tell us we are making a mistake, but do not carry on as you are doing now. Do not try to foster a negative approach among the Coloureds because many of them are not informed about what the Government would like to do. You are not serving the cause of the Coloured; nor are you serving the cause of the Coloured child. You are not serving the cause of the educationalist.

But of the inciters.

That is what they are doing when they make speeches such as the speech of the hon. member for Sea Point.

Order! Did the hon. member for Moorreesburg use the word “inciters”?

Yes, Sir.

The hon. member must withdraw it.

I withdraw it, Sir.

The hon. member for Sea Point made a speech which will definitely cause 30% of the Coloureds who read the newspapers to doubt whether they should ever go to Dassenberg, because they will possibly have to settle themselves under a tree, as hon. members on the opposite side say, in a squatters area.

[Inaudible.]

Is that just, you who have probably been a mother? [Interjections.] Is it just to leave children and others without a roof over their heads? I do not think it is just. I do not think it is honest towards the Coloureds. I do not humiliate the Coloured. If hon. members on the opposite side were to make the same statements about Whites, the Whites would not want to go to Dassenberg either. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I am not going to reply to all the outrageous statements made by the hon. member for Langlaagte, but I do want to refer to a few of the matters which he raised. The hon. member spoke of the housing of the Coloureds and of the development of the Coloureds as a group and as South African citizens, and he made the statement that other political parties in the Opposition are not keen to help in the provision of proper housing for the Coloureds. I think that before making such outrageous statements in this House, that hon. member should do himself the favour of first speaking to the Coloureds of South Africa and establishing from them how they feel about the policies of the Nationalist Party in respect of their group in South Africa. Sir, if he speaks to the Coloureds of South Africa, then he will find that nine out of ten Coloureds condemn the National Party policies as blatant domination and as blatant discrimination against the Coloured group. The record of the Nationalist Party in respect of the non-Whites of South Africa, and particularly in respect of the Coloureds of South Africa, is something of which nobody can be proud. There was a time when the Coloureds of South Africa were an acceptable part of the citizenry of South Africa. They lived in the cities and towns of South Africa. [Interjection.] Sir, I am now quoting what the hon. he Minister of Indian Affairs has taught me over many years. The Coloureds were a part of the towns and cities of South Africa, a part of the community, a part of the economy. They were happy and they were faithful to South Africa and to South Africa’s interests. The relations between them and the Whites of South Africa were sound. But, Sir, what did the Nationalist Party do? Through the application of its policy of apartheid and of discrimination against the Coloureds as well, against those people whom the hon. member for Moorreesburg calls the Brown Afrikaners of South Africa, the Nationalist Party …

Created a future for them.

No, the Nationalist Party did not create any future for the Coloureds in doing that; it destroyed all the hope they had. Coloureds who owned houses and land in the towns and cities of South Africa were forced from those areas by means of legislation. Their houses and their land were taken away from them by means of the application of legislation and the Whites of South Africa showed large profits from the development of that land which was taken away from the Coloureds. The hope of the Coloureds was destroyed and wrecked. The whole future of the Coloureds in South Africa was destroyed and wrecked by the Nationalist Party and its reprehensible policies …

Order! I am still waiting for the hon. member to return to the Planning Vote. I hope that he will do so shortly.

Sir, I am still dealing with the speech made by the hon. member for Langlaagte, but I conclude with this. Because of the actions of this Government, there is a dangerous resistance to the Whites in the minds of the Coloureds today, and that is the consequence of the policies of the Nationalist Party.

Sir, I just want to come back to a point which is very important. It is a point which was made by the hon. member for Moorreesburg, and which I found interesting. I believe that it is perhaps the most interesting point which has been made in this debate or, in fact, in any of the debates which have been conducted so far this year on racial matters. Sir, last year, and again this year, the hon. member for Moorreesburg spoke of non-Black South Africa. I want to emphasize and underline this, because the Government and other politicians in South Africa always speak of a so-called White South Africa. Sir, no such thing exists, and we must stop using that term. The hon. member for Moorreesburg is more realistic and more honest in respect of this specific matter, because he started using the term “non-Black South Africa” in this House. I think it is important, because we have the opportunity now to investigate it further. He describes non-Black South Africa, quite rightly, as that part of South Africa which excludes the Black homelands. I wonder whether the hon. member thinks that the existing Black homelands, as they are going to be consolidated in terms of the legislation which we piloted through this House recently, will be acceptable to the so-called Black South Africa. Are those areas large enough, or should they be much larger?

Do not ask him. Tell us what you think of that.

I think that these areas should be far bigger; that they should be realistically consolidated, and that it should be done by drawing new boundaries and not by buying land, because that would cost too much money and take too long and because it could never lead to a realistic consolidation of the Black homelands. Sir, when this has been achieved, in other words, a realistic and honest consolidation of the Black homelands, then we shall be able to refer to those States as the Black States of Southern Africa. I accept that, because it is realistic and it is honest. Then non-Black South Africa remains. The hon. member says, quite rightly again, that the Coloureds, the Brown Afrikaner, or the Brown South African …

May I ask a question?

No, I do not have the time now. He says that they are not strangers, but that they ought to exercise civic rights, but he does not tell us whether it will happen in terms of the junior and senior partnership which he advocated last year, or as equal neighbours, as the Prime Minister says. Now we come to the real dilemma of the hon. member, and that is that he admits that in non-Black South Africa there are 9 million Black people. In addition, he said that those people would not be entitled to citizenship in South Africa. That is how I understood him. Do we realize that that means, even at this stage, that the majority of the permanent population, people who live here permanently, work here permanently and have their permanent interests here, i.e. the majority of the population of non-Black South Africa, are Black people, not Coloureds or Indians or Whites? And those people are denied all rights; they have no political rights in terms of the policy of the Nationalist Party, and when it comes to social or economic matters, they have virtually no rights. If we may make a prediction for the 30 years ahead, those 9 million, of whom the hon. member spoke this morning, are going to increase to between 20 million and 25 million people, once again Black people, living permanently in non-Black South, Africa, i.e. with all their interests here, because they will work here, their children will go to school here and they will live here; this will be the country in which they will have their interests and which they will regard as their fatherland and home. By that time, 25 million of the permanent inhabitants of non-Black South Africa will therefore be regarded, not as citizens of non-Black South, Africa, but as citizens of foreign Black States. The question which I want to ask is: With the realism and the honesty and the far-sightedness which that hon. member showed—he is the only one of his kind on the side of the Nationalist Party, and I think that it is in the interests of South Africa that he make that sort of speech—can he give us an honest and a realistic answer about the approach, of the Nationalist Party in respect of these 25 million citizens of South Africa, with permanent interests in non-Black South Africa?

Order! I want to warn the hon. member again that he is digressing very far from the Vote. I have been very lenient up to now, but I do not think the hon. member should continue in this vein.

Very well, Sir, then I shall come to the rest of my speech. I should just like to ask the hon. member for Moorreesburg to answer that stimulating question for us when he speaks again on another occasion. Then we shall have made progress for the very first time in debates in this House in connection with the real issues of South Africa.

Now, Sir, I should like to come to my own speech. [Time expired.]

Sir, the hon. member for Bryanston never got round to his speech, so it is definitely not necessary to reply to what he did say. I should like to make use of this opportunity to welcome the National Development Plan which has been presented by the department and to congratulate the department on it. It bears witness to penetrating study and insight in connection with everything the problem of organizing and planning for decentralization from the large industrial areas to growth points in the rural areas entails. I am particularly impressed by the creation of growth poles and development axes which are indicated as guide-lines. I find it an inspiration to look at the maps on which these plans are indicated and illustrated. The development axes stretch out from the metropolitan areas like the arms of a large octopus in all directions in the Transvaal, to the depths of the rural areas. They stretch out to the south, to the west, to the north-east and so on. It is precisely this envisaged development of areas far from the metropolitan areas which impresses me, because the time is more than ripe for the tremendous increase in the population—White as well as non-White and particularly the Bantu in our urban areas—to be checked. My hon. bench-mate, who comes from the Cape Province, the hon. member for Moorreesburg, took a great risk when he said that the Transvaal was becoming Blacker. He took a great risk in saying that while standing next to a Transvaler. This is the first time that I have had someone from the Cape as a bench-mate; nevertheless, I can just as easily risk saying that the Western Cape and the Peninsula is becoming Brown. Nevertheless, I tend to agree with him that those seven or eight million Blacks who are concentrated around our large urban areas may cause those areas to become Blacker should their increase not be checked soon and should a rapid and realistic implementation of this proposed programme of the National Physical Development Plan not be begun.

I am particularly glad that one of the development axes stretches through Rustenburg as growth pole to the west, to my part of the world, viz. the vicinity of Marico and Zeerust. I believe that it will extend even further and link up with the Vryburg/Kuruman development axis and that it will then go from Sishen to Saldanha. There can be different growth poles in that development axis, one of which must be Zeerust. Zeerust is suitable for being a growth pole, because, to my mind, it meets the requirements which are set in this report in respect of the necessary infra-structure which has to exist in towns and areas which want to come into consideration for border industrial development and for State support in this connection. In this report, it is said that the presence of mineral deposits in such areas enjoy priority in the selection of towns for possible development as growth poles. Zeerust and the Marico area possess rich deposits of base minerals. There are large quantities of base minerals there, especially fluorite, which used to be mined and exported in its unbeneficiated form. The whole north-western part of the Transvaal is rich in minerals. Just think of the iron ore at Thabazimbi and the vast lime deposits in the Dwaalboom area, where Portland Cement was willing to erect a factory if a rail extension could be obtained to Dwaalboom. They are building it now in the area of my friend, the hon. member for Kuruman, at Danielskuil or elsewhere in the Northern Cape. The lime deposits at Slurry, where there is one of the largest cement factories in South Africa, a factory which is now doubling its present production, are also important. Years ago, when attempts were made to divert the dolomitic water sources near Zeerust to other areas, I advocated that they should be retained for the future development of Zeerust as a border industrial area. I adopted the standpoint and I advocated that factories could even be erected at the water sources, and that beneficiation projects could be erected at the points where the ore was mined. This has now been proved possible and I should like to refer to one example to prove what the potential of the mineral deposits is. On my farm, Renosterfontein 304, United States Steel has erected a factory which will start producing this year. This factory will initially produce 184 000 tons of concentrated fluorite for export. The purity of the concentrate will be about 97,5%. On the very next farm, Winterhoek, another similar beneficiation plant has been erected which will produce 90 000 tons of this powdered concentrate per year. That is a very great amount, if one thinks what a mass of raw material first has to be processed. It so happens that this is taking place on my farm. I am grateful for this and for the development, because I have seen this as an ideal and a possibility for a long time. As a result of this, a start was made at once with, the construction of 100 new houses at Zeerust, for workers at these factories. There are other beneficiation possibilities as well in that area—for example, manganese, chrome, andalusite and so on. Then there are still other aspects of the necessary infra-structure which Zeerust satisfies and which I do not need to re-emphasize. For example, there are effective rail communications, water and power, as well as recreational and educational facilities which would meet all the needs of any entrepreneur or industrialist and of their workers. Suitable industrial land is also available. I know that local authorities have to take the initiative in attracting people, but I should like to point out that under the National Physical Development Plan the department is able to determine priorities as well as the extent to which the State can help towns which need industrial growth. Therefore I want to advocate that the hon. the Minister and the State should take a good look at this area as well. It is definitely very suitable for the establishment of border industries. It possesses good labour potential as well, because it is situated between the two flanks of Bophuthatswana and near the border of Botswana as well. This area definitely possesses the infrastructure which is a requirement for industrial development. I also want to make use of this opportunity to draw the attention of industrialists to this excellent area; it would be a good idea for them to come and convince themselves of the possibilities there. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I listened to the speech made by the hon. member for Bryanston, and I want to give him the assurance that the National Party’s policy not only makes provision for the Black people in White areas, but that we have a morally justified and a very good policy in respect of all population groups. The hon. member’s speech made me think of an opportunistic argument, because I do not believe he has one Coloured in his whole constituency. It will be a good idea, for the foreseeable future, if the hon. member stays in close contact with the Van Zyl Slabbert Commission, because I know that that hon. member advocates “one man, one vote”. I also know that the Van Zyl Slabbert Commission will probably be in favour of the qualified franchise. I want to predict even now that, in view of the attitude of the hon. members for Sea Point and Pinelands, who have certain problems with the Coloureds, qualified franchise is going to win. While they are trying to sort out that issue, we shall continue to do our best in Africa.

I come next to the subject I wish to discuss. The Republic is situated in Africa, and we have certain advantages which other countries in Africa do not have. In the first place, we have a highly developed technology, actually more than just a highly developed technology, because we have a technology which is suited to the nature of Africa and the character of its people. In the second place, we have tremendously large and rich resources, which are comparable with the best in the world. In the third place, however, we have a problem, viz. a shortage of manpower. Because we have everything in our favour, except for a limited trained labour force, the co-ordination and the planning of our development in South Africa is of the utmost importance.

I should like to discuss the National Physical Development Plan. I want to pause for a moment and ask myself bow planning should be done. It is a fact that the human brain has a limited capacity to assimilate, plan and order facts. Therefore, it is true that the well-tried method of planning is regional planning. Let us now consider more closely a region in which planning must take place. The delimitation of the region is a tremendous problem, and it is precisely in this that the great merits of the National Physical Development Plan lie. When one looks at what a region really is, one observes that there are a diversity of regions, each with its own particular interests, problems and characteristics. Firstly, I want to pause for a moment at the metropolitan region. One finds a region which one may classify as a metropolitan region on grounds of its high population density. In the second place, one also finds another type of region, viz. the region which develops next to a development axis—again something special, which has to be considered closely when planning is done. In the third place, one also finds developing regions in an agricultural area. In the fourth place, there are depressed regions, where no real development is taking place. It is the task of the Department of Planning to establish in which category a region falls and how it should be defined. To be able to establish a balanced region, which can be planned, is one of the most difficult problems with which the planner is faced.

It is interesting to notice the excellent formulation stated in the National Physical Development plan on page 9, viz. that any division of a country into development regions for planning purposes will take certain criteria into account, one creterion, for example, is “the nodal core with its sphere of influence”. The nodal core is the core where the growth arises and from which its influence goes out to the rest of the area. All the other points mentioned on page 9 amount to the fact that proper account must be taken of the growth potential of the particular area. When we look at what other people have to say about this, we notice what a Mr. Mumford said about how a region should be considered. A region has a few aspects, or characteristics, by means of which we can characterize it, for example—

That means that we must establish a region which can be planned, something which is viable and which has certain common properties, so that the region can be planned. In this respect—I want to state this respectfully—the Department of Planning has succeeded exceptionally well. This planning is tremendously important for the economic development of South Africa and it is important for the planning of services, provision of labour for our still growing population throughout the country. It must also make provision for the flow of people, those people who migrate from the rural areas to the cities and metropolitan areas, so that an opportunity can be created for industrial growth to prevent an unnecessary influx to these metropolitan areas. Provision must also be made for the labour market which is limited, so that it can be best utilized. The corner-stone of the policy of this Government is decentralization to border industries and growth points. Without this planning, South Africa has no future. The corner-stone of our survival is decentralization. However, I have a question here, viz. whether decentralization is really succeeding as we want it to succeed and whether there are not perhaps bottlenecks. It is true that we are telling the industrialist to establish himself in border areas, and he is being compensated for the disadvantages of such a move. However, the problem arises in the marketing of the product which the industrialist produces in the border areas. For example, he cannot compete with the person who has his industry in the Rand area. Why not? When this industrialist has to transport his goods over a long distance by train, a few things happen. In the first place, he is not certain of the date on which his product will be delivered. Perhaps the train will not be on time. In the second place, some of his products may possibly be damaged on the train. When these products are loaded and off-loaded … [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member will forgive me if I do not follow up his argument. There are two matters with regard to my own constituency which I should like to bring to the attention of the hon. the Minister.

†The hon. the Minister as the Minister responsible for physical planning may find it a little odd that I would like to raise a mental attitude which appears to be prevailing in my constituency. I intend asking the hon. the Minister to do something about it. My constituency, Mooi River, starts at Cato Ridge and goes up to Estcourt, this embracing the whole area around Pietermaritzburg and virtually the whole of the Natal Midlands. Cato Ridge and Estcourt have this in common that they are two areas which started off as growth points. They were built as centres which would develop very rapidly, but lately they seem to have slowed down considerably. In this area there are also towns like Howick and Mooi-River which are one-industry towns. Throughout this constituency today people are being laid off work. There is a tremendous shortfall in confidence on the part of the investing public and an attitude of mind among the Zulu population that I think the hon. the Minister has to take notice of. The largely rural-based Zulu population, the Zulus on the farms, have today adopted the attitude that if you work on a farm you are a “isipugupugu”, i.e. you are a fool, you are wasting your time. We are finding—any person on a farm there will tell you the same thing—that the Black people are moving off the farms as fast as they can go. It was the tradition in the past that you would have a head of the kraal and that at least one married son would stay on the farm because the farmer would allow cattle on the farm belonging to that family. With the intensification of farming that has taken place throughout the Midlands, that old link between the farmer and the Black man is being broken more and more. Consequently the Minister will find that the Black population, which was more or less evenly divided between the Bantu Reserves and the farms, is going to shift off the farms into those Reserves and that this tendency will be accelerated in the future. All of those Black people will be looking for work in industry.

There is the additional complication around Estcourt that, with the consolidation resolutions passed by this House last week, a tremendous concentration of Black people is going to form in that area where, as I say, the drive towards investment has tailed off. Indeed, a factory there which until recently was still in operation, has closed down and the main employer in the area, the Masonite factory, is turning Black people away. I believe the hon. the Minister must take cognizance of this fact and that he must, if necessary, reintroduce in places like Estcourt and Cato Ridge incentives to draw immediate capital investment to those areas. It is of national interest that that should be done to meet the needs of the Black population which is growing so tremendously there. I think the Minister has a very clear duty to give every possible incentive to investors because whatever is available in Estcourt at the present time is not meeting the bill or the present demand there. With the increase in the Bantu population as a result of consolidation, a very serious situation is going to arise there and that is why I bring it to the hon. the Minister’s attention today. One finds that in all these areas every one of the local authorities wants industry. They approach the Minister’s department and worry them continually in this connection and I myself have addressed letters to the Minister asking that industry should be encouraged at these places. However, every single one of them want capital-intensive, clean industries and not heavy, labour-intensive industries. I think the hon. the Minister must either get together with the people there and persuade them to go for labour-intensive industry, in which case they will need assistance because they cannot bear the costs of the housing development that will be required for the Black people, or alternatively he must give additional financial help to those authorities to enable him to provide the necessary housing for labour-intensive industry. I mention this because this is an area which basically depends on Pietermaritzburg. Pietermaritzburg is the centre of the area, but the smaller towns around it are developing on their own. Cato Ridge, for instance, is billed as being a tremendous growth point. When Anglo-Vaal established a ferro-alloy factory there, it was thought and freely bruited about that there would be a tremendous steel complex developing there with all sorts of ancillary factories, but this never came about. Today there is a plywood factory and a new abattoir at Cato Ridge. There is also a chipping factory for the export of wattle chips to Japan, but none of these are labour-intensive industries. They will not be using anything like the potential of Black people there. Then there is Hammarsdale a few miles down the line where they are already today discharging Black people on a significant scale. That is why I wish to draw it pertinently to the hon. the Minister’s attention that the situation developing there is of such a nature that only the intervention of the Minister and his department can help to change the climate of opinion about those areas so that people will again invest their money there which will get the momentum going to cope with the future demand for employment form the Black people in that area.

Mr. Chairman, may I put a question to the hon. member?

Yes.

Does the hon. member not think that the reason why the Black labour is leaving is that they want higher wages than those which they are earning at present? Is that not the reason for their leaving those areas?

The farms?

And the industries.

Mr. Chairman, I think that the question of wages, in industry is something which is settled on a cost-benefit basis and so forth. Nobody is going to pay a higher wage than that actually earned by any person. This is one of our problems. I do think that the Black people tend to turn their backs on employment in certain spheres because they believe they are entitled to a higher wage. Anyone can measure this, however, by the productivity which is generated by those people. I do not think that that is a factor of major significance. The point that I am making is that people are being induced to leave because the market is not there. I want to concede immediately that the hon. the Minister cannot create markets, and we are experiencing a down-turn in our economy. I believe, however, that it will pick up. It is bottoming out and it is beginning to pick up now. What I would like to see is that the investment climate there should be so stimulated by the hon. the Minister that there will be opportunities for employment created for the people there.

I also want to raise with the hon. the Minister a matter that has been raised before by other hon. members on this side of the House. I am referring to the Indian area at Cliffdale. This is an area occupied by Indians which was frozen in 1968 and has not yet been declared for Indians. I want to make an urgent appeal to the hon. the Minister to make a declaration there as soon as he possibly can. This is one of the few areas remaining in Natal occupied agriculturally by the Indian community. The Indian community occupy agricultural land very beneficially indeed. Representations have already been made by the hon. member for Pietermaritzburg-South and it is now in the hands of the hon. member for Umhlatuzana. It borders on my constituency. I believe that the hon. the Minister will be doing himself, South Africa, and the Indian community in particular, a very great service indeed if he would expedite the declaration of that area as an Indian area. This should be done as soon as possible. We are already finding in other Indian areas such as Cato Ridge in my constituency and other areas that the Indian community are having to move. Here we have a nucleus of Indian people settled on the land. There is also land available where a township can be developed and which would be right within an area which is today already occupied by Indian people. I have been told that six White people have been permitted to purchase land within that area on permit issued by the hon. the Minister. I sincerely hope that this does not mean that the hon. the Minister is considering that this area should be taken over by White people and that the Indian community should move. I think it would be a grave mistake to do that. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the nature of the contribution made by the hon. member for Mooi River does not require me to follow up on it or to say anything about it.

I want to begin by referring to the hon. the Minister and the department. I think that our sincere thanks are due to the department for this National Physical Development Plan which has been submitted to us. As far back as the year 1927, regional development associations were established in South Africa and the need arose in many fields for developments to take place in South Africa in a more co-ordinated way. This eventually resulted in the establishment of a Department of Development, and now we also have this National Physical Development Plan which has been submitted to us. While we congratulate the department on the submission of the National Physical Development Plan, I want to say at the same time that I believe that what the hon. the Minister said in his preface to this National Physical Development Plan—that this cannot be the final product of planning, but that it is probably the starting point on which a reaction can be expected from the people of South Africa—that we shall in fact accept this as being the starting point and that we shall not consider it to be the final stage of planning. Sir, when we plan in South Africa, we plan in the first place for people. To hon. members who made such a fuss here today about planning in the Bantu homelands, I just want to say in passing that we can give them the assurance that planning is in fact taking place in the Bantu homelands, but that this aspect of the matter is being managed by the homeland Governments themselves. As far as this report is concerned, Sir, I want to say that we are very grateful for the fact that we have made such rapid progress that we can have this report available to us today, from which it appears that South Africa is divided into 38 regional planning areas. While we welcome this planning, Sir, we must never lose sight of the fact that we are planning for the people of South Africa. We must never lose sight of the fact that when we are dealing with a region, we are also planning for the people of that particular region, and that consequently we shall work on a broad foundation, advancing from the various planning regions to a culminating point where we shall then have the overhead planning for the whole South Africa. Sir, I suppose that in this respect I shall be allowed to tell the hon. the Minister and his department that I cannot agree with what is described in this report as future development axes without a development axis being created which will link up the Witwatersrand and the whole VWP area with the development axis which will eventually come into being between Sishen and Saldanha. There may be several routes we can look at in determining such a development axis, but if we were to take no account of the idea of the possible existence of such a development axis in determining our priorities, in the opinion-forming steps we take in our planning action in South Africa, then I think we would be making a basic mistake in the sense that it is of the utmost importance to our future in South Africa that the Northern Cape be linked up with the Witwatersrand area in a development axis. I do not want to say too much about it at this stage. The hon. member for Marico said that it should take place over Zeerust/ Mafeking/Vryburg. Sir, I do not think that on the information presently available, one can merely take up the standpoint that it should take place along this or that route. I think there are other routes which should also be considered in determining such a possible development axis.

Sir, the second matter I want to raise, which is very important to me, is this: We have now received a National Physical Development Plan for South, Africa. Basically, as I have said, we are planning for people. I want to have my thanks placed on record again today, as I did last year, for what the department, particularly the public relations officer of the department, has done to make contact with the regional development associations in South Africa, because these regional development associations consist of people from the particular region in respect of which planning is taking place. I have already referred to the fact that several regional development associations have insisted since 1927, and that the Government has always realized, as appears from the creation of the old Natural Resources Development Council, etc., that there must be co-ordinated planning action and that a master plan must be drawn up such as the one we have before us today. But now this plan which has been submitted to us has to be implemented in South Africa in its basic particulars, not only by the Department of Planning, but also by the people for whom we are planning.

Now I am afraid, looking at this report and at our regional development associations, that we may reach a stage where there may be either an interruption or a breakdown in the co-ordination between the implementation of the National Physical Development Plan and the activities of our regional development associations. I have already addressed a plea to the hon. the Minister on behalf of the Western Transvaal Regional Development Association and I want to repeat that plea today.

I am not doing this merely on behalf of the Western Transvaal Regional Development Association, but also on behalf of other regional development associations in South Africa, which have expressed the opinion that with the National Physical Development Plan now available, this would be a fitting time for the hon. the Minister, through his department, to hold a conference or a symposium—call it whatever you like—of regional development associations, so that discussions concerning the implementation of this development plan may be conducted on the highest level with the people of those areas to which the plans relate. I want to repeat that no matter how well we plan, if we do not obtain the co-operation of the people for whom we are planning in the process, we are going to have problems. We have now reached this great milestone of at last having a National Physical Development Plan for South Africa.

I know that the department took tremendous trouble, where no regional development associations existed, to see to it that such associations were established. Where regional development associations were not properly organized, the department saw to it, by means of the National Physical Development Plan, that the constituent members and parts of such a region were organized along the proper lines. I think that we should hold a conference so that we can get those people together and discuss with them this blueprint for the physical planning of South Africa. I am convinced that all regional planning associations, knowing very well that something of this nature will cost money, will certainly help to bear the cost in order to make such a national symposium of regional development associations possible; for then, I know, we shall really give impetus to the basic ideas we have been nursing up to now, and we shall set this infant, the National Physical Development Plan, on its feet and enable it to fend for itself in every region represented in this plan.

Mr. Chairman, I should like to devote a few moments to the conservation of the environment. The Department of Planning must be one of the youngest departments in our State machine. It is one of the departments with a very small administration, but nevertheless it is of the utmost importance, for it devotes its attention to the mistakes which were made in the past and which are reflected in the present. It is the task of the department, not only to try and rectify those mistakes, but also to plan for the future in such, a way as to eliminate the possibility of these mistakes being repeated. We shall have to take account of the shape of things to come, which must become just as important to us as historic memories.

Let me mention a few examples of how the mistakes made by man, more particularly in the Republic, have overtaken us in more than one respect. History teaches us that 2 000 years before Christ, the Babylonians had two wheat crops a year, and between those two crops they grazed their sheep on that same land. Today that same region, Iraq, is a salt desert. The Greek philosopher, Plato, who lived 300 years before Christ, warned against over-grazing and deforestation because, he said, the land would be washed away and the fountains would dry up. Another example we have after destruction caused by man, not only in respect of the soil, but in respect of the animal kingdom as well, is the fact that over the past 400 years, about a hundred species of mammals have become extinct, three-quarters of which disappeared directly or indirectly as a result of the actions of man.

In this way we learn, too, that in the year 1600 there were 8 646 Species of birds, but since that time 93 species have become extinct, while a further 187 are threatened with extinction. To come nearer home, we have the findings of the Department of Agricultural Technical Services to the effect that an area comprising 32 000 ha of excellent grazing land in the catchment area of the Hendrik Verwoerd Dam has been declared totally lost to us. The land cannot be reclaimed.

In the same area there is 1,5 million ha of good land which is in an extremely poor condition. It will take years before the land can be used at all productively. I can give a further illustration of the loss by saying that according to a calculation made in 1970, 363 million metric tons of top-soil is carried away by erosion every year. Since 1946, R63 million in State assistance has been spent on soil conservation by farmers. The planning in respect of the conservation of the environment have become a vital facet of our national survival. It is an enterprise which affects every inhabitant of our country and a contribution has to be made by White, Black, Brown and Indian; it has to become a national effort. It is true that this task is considered to be the task of the State. Unless every inhabitant of the Republic approaches the conservation of the environment in real earnest, we shall never succeed in our attempt.

For that reason I should like to avail myself of the opportunity to congratulate the hon. the Minister on the declaration of 5 June every year to be an international environment day. I believe that the problem of the conservation of the environment must be brought more specifically to the attention of the inhabitants of the Republic. It is a wonderful idea, and it is a pity that the meaning of the international environment day is not being brought more pointedly to the notice of the inhabitants of the Republic. I am sure that much more can be done to draw the attention of our people to this excellent day.

In this regard I think of our schools and our universities, our churches and our local bodies. I ask myself why this day cannot be brought more pointedly to people’s notice by indicating it on school and church calendars and by organizing essay competitions on this subject for primary and high school pupils. There are many subjects in this regard which will enable our boys and girls to make a splendid contribution. Another way is the South African emblem for the conservation of the environment, which is a fine idea.

I first saw this emblem in the department’s publication, Environment. That is all I know about it. It might be a good idea to distribute this emblem among school children in the form of a badge. I believe that in this connection, too, there is a great deal we can do. We have learned that if we have the young people on our side, we can do a great deal. I think of the fine effort made by the Voortrekker movement, who made a survey of littering, thereby performing a national service of positive value. That was a wonderful effort on the part of this fine youth movement.

I see in the Budget for this year that an amount of R122 000 is being appropriated for Contributions to private bodies engaged in planning and research in the national interest. I wonder whether this amount should not be doubled. The private body which works with the inhabitants themselves could become a wonderful movement, but unfortunately they do not have the necessary funds. I want to congratulate this department sincerely on its contribution of R10 000 to the Habitat Council. It is the first time that money has been appropriated for this body. This is a very valuable council which is engaged in co-ordinating every possible attempt in this regard. I realize that where there is no planning, no construction can be undertaken and that where there is no planning, there is confusion. For this reason I find it a great pity that after all these years, the guide plan for the greater Port Elizabeth region is still not available. I should like to draw the hon. the Minister’s attention to the fact that losses are being suffered by more than one project in that vicinity because this guide plan is not available. I wonder whether the hon. the Minister could not make the guide plan for the greater Port Elizabeth region available now.

Mr. Chairman, I listened with interest to the speech of the hon. member for Somerset East. Particularly interesting were his historical references to the depredations of man and we can only hope that we will learn from the lessons of history and that the whole matter of environmental conservation will get the consideration it deserves. I would like to come back to this later in my speech. But first I would like to say that I listened with considerable disgust to that intellectual giant, the hon. member for Langlaagte, who disappeared after his speech and is not back yet. He mouthed some very pious sentiments and I would just like to place on record that the record of his party, when it comes to Coloured housing, is a record of shame and a blot on the name of South Africa. When that hon. member has the impertinence to make the sort of speech that he did as if butter would not melt in his mouth, I can only say that I have the utmost contempt for what I regard as political hypocrisy of the very worst kind. I would suggest to that hon. member and his party that they should talk to the Coloured people themselves about their attitude towards the policies of the National Party. He will get an answer he does not like, because while the hon. member follows his flights of imaginative political dishonesty from his very comfortable position, hundreds of thousands of Coloured people face the realities of living in the most indescribably sordid conditions.

Coming back to the question of environmental conservation, I want to point out that in 1973 the department produced a publication entitled “Environmental Conservation”, a very good document. In this document is shown a chain of command relating to environmental conservation starting at the top with the Prime Minister, going down through Cabinet Ministers and the Cabinet Committee on Environmental Conservation, through the Department of Planning and the Environment to over 50 committees, subcommittees and working groups. Such bodies as diversified as a working group on noise distribution and a working group for aquatic weeds are presumably still in operation, but the annual report of the department is silent on this matter. As far as environmental conservation is concerned, it talks about the public relations exercise of making the general public more aware of the environment and making the general public more conservation minded. This is very praiseworthy indeed, but with respect, it is not enough. I should like to know from the hon. the Minister how well the co-ordination of this multitude of committees is going. How many of these committees are still operating? How many are still active? Are these various working groups still working? What are the results of their work? Do these various bodies report back to his department? What happens to the reports? What action is taken as a result of these reports? There are hundreds of questions one would like to ask about this but I would ask the hon. the Minister to give us in his reply some details of what is going on.

The department has produced its National Physical Development Plan. I would assume that when we produce a major plan of this nature, planning for environmental conservation would be a major part. It is a major task and, with every respect, looking at subhead A on the Estimates, which deals with salaries, I do not believe that the department in fact employs enough people to begin to cope successfully with the tremendous magnitude of this work. Of the only 75 people employed for physical planning how many do deal with environmental conservation? These 75 people presumably deal with all sorts of other things as well, such as regional planning and aspects of economic planning, guide plans, planning of energy resources and all the various aspects of planning that are covered by the department. Where does environmental conservation fit into this scheme of things? How many people are employed in this specific section of the department? I should like to ask the hon. the Minister for example how many ecologists he employs. Does his department employ a professional ecologist?

What for?

“What for”?

That is a typical example of somebody who obviously has such a high intellectual capacity that he must have received his education in the upper branches.

The whole point that I am making, Mr. Chairman, is that I believe that the number of planners employed by the department is totally inadequate in the field of environmental conservation. Be they supermen, the people employed could not possibly do justice in a National Physical Development Plan to this tremendously important aspect of environmental planning. I believe I am right in saying, for example, that there are something like 175 people employed in planning national roads. How then is it possible for, say 15 or 20 people—I do not know how many there are—involved in the much larger field of environmental planning to do a thorough job? Even if every one of the proliferation of committees I mentioned earlier were working very hard—and I do not believe that this is the case—and if streams of information were flowing from these committees, the department would still not be employing enough people to plan successfully for a vitally important and very basic aspect of any comprehensive national physical development plan. I should like to make the point that I do not believe that the department has yet reached the stage where it is high enough up on the list of priorities of the Government. It is not regarded to be as important as it should be. It is still inadequate for the job that it has to do. The whole future of our rapidly developing country is affected by planning that is being done now. I think that the department has made a good start in certain respects but it is only a start.

My hon. colleague from Sea Point has pointed out very graphically and in a most devastating manner the dangers of ideological planning, when one’s criteria are subjective, rather than objective. One could only wish that the limited manpower available in the department was being used in positive and objective planning rather than being forced into decisions on an ideological basis which is happening all the time, the hon. member for Umhlanga earlier in the debate felt that they were doing a very good job.

I have not opened my mouth yet.

I should like to say that individuals in the department are doing a very good job, but only so far as it goes. The sum total cannot help but be inadequate because there are just not enough hands. Perhaps they have produced a magic formula which enables this enormous task to be done, but I do not believe it. I should like to raise just one matter which I believe to be an example of planning away from ideology and for good reason.

[Inaudible.]

I do wish that hon. member, if he may so loosely be termed, would shut up a little bit and allow me to get on with my speech.

Mr. Chairman, on a point of order; the hon. member has made reference to me and I have not entered the debate as yet.

But you are talking all the time.

The hon. member may proceed.

Here I think one should congratulate the department. I should like to congratulate it on the stance it has taken which is at variance with the approach taken by a consortium employed by the Transvaal Provincial Administration on the question of the grid plan which is proposed for the Transvaal. I believe that the department’s approach is sane and objective, and it has considered the important question of land usage in an integrated manner. The department’s report first indicates what physical pattern is recognized in the area and then considers what transport is needed. This is at total variance with the consortium plan. I can only hope that the Transvaal Provincial Administration will take cognizance of the department’s report, because this grid plan as propounded by the consortium is appalling in its whole conception. It is an example of what happens when any scheme is improperly planned without reference to a full planning team. This grid system was designed by road-builders and, as such, consists possibly of good road plans, but it does not begin to be a final answer for the needs of the community. The reason for this is that all the planning disciplines were not involved in making decisions. There were no town planners, ecologists, regional planning experts, soil scientists, conservationists or even representatives of the local authorities concerned. All in all, it is a monstrous and monumental mess which will adversely affect the quality of life of the people in that area for years and years to come. One can only hope that the common-sense approach of the Department of Planning in this case will prevail before too much damage has been done.

I would like to ask one question of the hon. the Minister and that is a matter which I have raised last year. I would like to ask the hon. the Minister what has happened to the Ecological Committee which was appointed to go into the planning of the Saldanha area. I just do not know; perhaps it has been working very hard, but I would like to ask the hon. the Minister whether they have made any recommendations, what has happened about those recommendations and if they are being followed in terms of the plans for the Saldanha area. Exactly what is happening?

Finally, many speakers have stressed the importance of this growing department. I notice from the annual report that the staff establishment of 240 only has 195 of its posts filled. I know how difficult it is to get personnel of this nature when one is building up a department, especially since the scientists that need to be employed do not grow on trees and are very hard to come by. I can only suggest to the hon. the Minister that he be somewhat more imaginative in his plans for the expansion of the department. I think that the report talks about a conservative policy towards expansion. I think that it has to be much more imaginative. Rapid population growth has made planning one of the most important aspects of government today and I do believe that planning must move very much higher up on our list of priorities. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, the hon. member for Orange Grove began his speech by having more to say about the Department of Community Development than about the activities of the Department of Planning. I want to urge the hon. member to get some proper rest this week-end, for the Community Development Vote is being discussed on Monday and I have a feeling that this Monday could be one of the blue Mondays in his political career.

I wish to thank the department, since it has now reached the end of almost a decade of its existence, for having completed one major task, namely the National Physical Development Plan. The department began in the year 1974. That was after Sharpeville. Shortly after the establishment of the Republic—and it was the beginning of a decade of exceptional growth in South Africa. Thinking back on that period today, one can only be grateful that the department was in fact established at that stage. In the existence of any industrial country in the world it is most certainly necessary to have the necessary co-ordination for the numerous activities of the State. Particularly in a country such as South Africa, in which there is not only a White nation and other small race groups, but also a number of Bantu nations that have to live in the same country, and in which each individual is entitled to his place in the sun as well as to his development possibilities, I think it is very necessary that there should in fact be a department of planning to ensure that justice is done to each of these nations and population groups.

We are on the verge of a new growth period in the history of our country. From 1970 until the present day, the world has gone through a period of recession; one could almost term it a period of depression. However, I think all of us hope that when these economic conditions have passed, the world will participate in a new growth phase, and that South Africa will also share in this growth phase. We are exceptionally fortunate in that we are more richly endowed than most other nations in the world with natural resources. We are also fortunate in that, within our country’s borders, we have population groups that have only taken the first step of development and which, as they progress with their course of development, and their standard of living is raised, could open up a vast potential market in South. Africa. Since we are equipped on the one hand with a large source of manpower which still has to be utilized and on the other with the very rich resources we have in our country, I believe that South Africa, more than any other country in the entire Western world, is standing on the verge of a vast growth phase.

The question then is what the major tasks of this department are, a department which plays a key role in the national economy of South Africa. I think the first major task awaiting this department is to ensure that this national development plan, which has been submitted to us for comment, should be properly elaborated and that a start should be made at those places where growth will take place first in South Africa, namely in the vicinity of the metropolitan areas and those places which are indicated as new growth poles or growth points. I think that what should be ensured in the first place is that this plan is properly elaborated, and that the type of guide plan which is now on the point of being completed for the Saldanha vicinity should also be completed for all these areas which have been indicated as growth, points and growth poles. This is the first major task which should be completed as rapidly as possible with a view to the new development awaiting us here in South Africa.

Secondly, I think it essential that we ensure, since we are so strategically located in Southern Africa, that the sources of manpower and the natural resources at our disposal at present will be applied in such a way that South Africa will not only serve as an example to the entire world, but that our country will also be able to play the positive role it has to play in Southern Africa. We should also ensure that no manpower is lost, and that no resource is incorrectly utilized, but that South, Africa develops systematically to its full potential, not only for its own sake, but also for the sake of the entire vast region of which it forms a part.

In this regard it is illuminating that the logical step which had to come, has been taken, namely that economic planning has been removed from the department and transferred to the Department of Finance, to round off the planning which takes place in the latter department. But then the question should be asked whether, apart from the completion of the National Physical Development Plan, new tasks should not perhaps be entrusted to the Department of Planning, namely to help the decentralization policy, which is basically what is at issue here, works in practice. I therefore want to associate myself with what has already been requested here this afternoon by the hon. member for Moorreesburg, namely whether the time has not arrived to transfer other State organs such as the Decentralization Board, for example, to this department. One simply feels that, without going into details, it may perhaps help, since we are trying to effect co-ordination here—to facilitate the task of the department in future.

There is a fourth major task awaiting this department, particularly in these times: The formulation of a national scientific policy, to which reference was also made in the latest annual report. I should like to ask this afternoon why there has been such a major delay in the formulation of the national scientific policy and its submission to South Africa. I think if there is one source of manpower in respect of which no wastage may take place, it is scientists. Since we have commended the work which has been done by the CSIR since its establishment towards the end of the forties, I think that the greatest tasks imaginable awaits this body in future. I think that the funds which are being appropriated for this body in the present financial year, namely R28,3 million, ought to be only a drop in the ocean, and that far larger amounts ought to be voted in future to enable the CSIR to accomplish its major task in South Africa. This council was established at a time, at the end of the Second World War, when it was realized that South Africa was on the verge of an industrial development phase, in contrast to the primary industries which had formerly been the main source of revenue of our country.

No one can deny that the CSIR has played a key role in all the various industries, in the development of our fatherland and in all the various industrial sectors in South Africa. The fact of the matter is that we are now, in this last quarter of the century, standing on the verge of the development of more sophisticated industries. I think that it will to an increasing extent be the task of this body to carry out the fundamental research. Apart from mining I do not think that we shall, for decades to come, have industries in South Africa which will be capable of carrying out research in general. One of the main tasks of the CSIR will therefore be to ensure that it does the necessary research on a national basis itself. It will also be the task of the CSIR to ensure that, in the development of the non-White nations of South Africa, each of them will also come into their own in this sphere. The CSIR will also have to ensure the development of industries, not only in the homelands, but also for those which may be tackled by the Coloured and Indian communities. It will also have to ensure the development of industries of the other peoples who may live in Southern Africa. I think that in years to come they will also turn their eyes to the CSIR, for it to make a contribution to their industrial development. If there is one body which cannot be duplicated to the south of the equator in Africa, it is the CSIR. I think it would perhaps be one of the greatest projects in regard to which there may be co-operation in Southern Africa if the CSIR is able to play its rightful part in the sub-continent. Therefore I want to make the request that, at the beginning of next year, when our television service has been introduced, the work which is being done by this body will be shown to South Africa on television. I believe that the Republic of South Africa will then be satisfied to lend their wholehearted support to this body whenever increasing amounts are requested for it. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, I shall try and deal as quickly as possible with the points raised by hon. members. The hon. member for Albany pleaded for the necessary co-ordination between our planning and that of the Department of Bantu Administration and Development. All I can say is that we have sound liaison and that we do consult each other. We are trying to bring about the best possible co-ordination. This department has also been consulted from time to time with the preparation of the National Physical Development Plan. I shall also convey his request to my colleague, the hon. the Minister of Water Affairs, that we bring the area he has referred to the attention of the Department of Water Affairs with a view to establishing a proper water supply scheme there. I just want to quote what the National Physical Development Programme has to say about Grahamstown—

This is quite the correct view. I take notice of the hon. member’s earnest request to me that I should try and bring about this state of affairs in terms of our planning as it is set out here.

I also want to thank the hon. member for Maraisburg for his contribution. I want to thank him, as well as the hon. members for Marico and Pretoria West and also other hon. members for congratulating my department on this National Physical Development Plan and on all the work that was done in connection therewith. I want to associate myself with, what they said and express my sincere thanks to all these officials who have worked so hard and so loyally on this project over a period of time. The hon. member also said that the majority of Indians and Coloureds on the Witwatersrand are living in his constituency. This is one of the reasons why we have prepared this pilot plan for the Grassmere / Lawley /Lenasia /Nancefield complex. I may mention in passing that one of the great number of committees which hon. members referred to here today, undertook an excellent piece of work for us. This committee provided some space in the south of Johannesburg to serve the local Indian and Coloured populations for a very long time to come. They carried out some constructive and positive work in this regard with a view to the future. The hon. member said that we should take care in our planning that nothing is said or done that will disturb and upset the people. On our part we shall try to pay careful attention to this aspect.

Sir, I want to thank the hon. member for Langlaagte for his speech. At the same time he brightened up and made proceedings more pleasant for us. I am glad that he referred to housing with regard to the standpoint adopted by the Leader of the Progressive Party. I forgot that while I was speaking here, but I was surprised to hear today that the Progressive Party threw up their hands and said: “Imagine, you are going to spend R350 million on Coloured housing there!” Sir, I was surprised when I heard that. I just want to mention in passing that I paid a visit to Dassenberg the other day. According to the present set-up there it will take the Coloured people in the first phase of this project only ten minutes to walk from their homes to their places of work. I think this is a very fine development.

I now come to the hon. member for Bryanston. I am afraid he did not have much to say that concerns this Vote. We are in the process of planning and I think he should give us a chance to carry out the necessary planning. Sir, I have taken cognizance of everything that was said by the hon. member for Marico with regard to the mineral resources in his area. I shall pay a visit to his area on 21 and 22 July, and we shall then be able to discuss this matter further with each other.

Sir, the hon. member for Pretoria West made a very interesting speech on planning. He referred to the important work we have already done with regard to the NPD. He said it was very difficult—and I know that he has a great deal of professional knowledge about these matters—merely to determine the boundaries of the planning regions. The hon. member also referred to something with which we cannot deal at great length today, i.e. that the cornerstone of our continued existence lies in decentralization. This is an important thought and we should consider this very carefully.

†The hon. member for Mooi River spoke about the investment climate and the general economic climate in his constituency. I have taken note of his remarks and I shall give particular attention to his area. Sir, it is a fact, as the hon. member stated, that the economy has been on the downturn. Investment all over South Africa has slackened off. We all hope that it will pick up again. We will give our attention to the results of this problem not only in his area, but also in other areas where the effect of this downturn in investment could be that people lose their employment and flock to the cities. As far as the Cliffdale area is concerned, I shall expedite that as much as possible. I am sorry I cannot give the hon. member the information for which he asks. I have not got it with me, but we shall look into this matter and do whatever we can to expedite things.

*As far as the hon. member for Schweizer-Reneke is concerned, I just want to say that I appreciate his standpoint and his hard work with regard to our development associations and the National Physical Development Plan. We may convene a conference at this stage; I would have no objection to it. However, we have not yet completed the organizing of all the regional development conferences as we would have liked to. I am just wondering whether we should not first involve the development associations in the planning of the various regions for which everyone of them is responsible, but these are matters we could iron out in the near future, and also at a conference of this nature. But we have to finalize the plans in any case before they can be implemented, and in the meantime we are giving effect to the NPD as much as we can and to the extent in which the Government departments are able to do so by means of the Government policy, growth point development, and so on.

The hon. member for Somerset East referred to environmental conservation, as did the hon. member for Orange Grove. I am therefore going to deal with them both more or less at the same time. To the hon. member for Somerset East I want to say that, in my opinion, we took a very important forward step in South Africa this year when we were given a Cabinet decision in which three aspects were emphasized: In the first place, that the agricultural land of South Africa is of the highest national importance; in the second place, that this land has to be identified by the Department of Agricultural Technical Services; and, in the third place, that the Department of Planning is instructed to reserve this valuable agricultural land in all its planning activities, its metropolitan planning and its regional planning, and that it is not allowed to interfere with this land. To my mind this is a major step forward, because South Africa does not have plenty of water and for that reason we are not in a position to develop many additional irrigation schemes in future. The time will come when we will have to utilize the little water we have for our urban and industrial development. For that reason we have to guard jealously this arable land of South Africa, which comprises only 15% of all the agricultural land of South Africa, including the Bantu homelands. The true high potential land amounts to something less than 4%, and this 4% produces more than 40% of our total agricultural production. Surely, we can understand that there can be no question of compromise with regard to this high potential agricultural land. The said Cabinet decision instructed us to discuss this matter with all the organizations in South Africa. We are already doing this, and I am glad to say that they are listening. 5 June will be World Environment Day. On our part we are going to make arrangements with the broadcasting authorities and with schools to bring this matter to the attention of the public. I am glad that the hon. member has mentioned this, and I want hon. members to help so that every one can try and propagate this idea in his own manner in order to foster greater awareness among the people for their environment on that day. I am also mentioning this with regard to what was said by the hon. member for Orange Grove.

†We only have a few people in our department. In fact, I think we only have about 15 top people, amongst whom there are two ecologists. But I think I can say that we make extensive use of other planning machinery, especially the planning departments of the provinces and of the big city councils. We also bring in private planning consultants in all these areas. Take, for example, the Langebaan lagoon, to which the hon. member for Orange Grove referred. We have a committee for the Langebaan lagoon, consisting of Dr. Hey as chairman, of Dr. Hall and others. We make use of people like Dr. Bigalke, Prof. Fugle and others. This Langebaan ecological committee has met regularly. We do the secretarial work, and so on. They have made two recommendations already. The one was that all drilling operations in the lagoon itself should be stopped, and that has been accepted. The other was that the CSIR make a study of what the effect would be of the disposal of hot water on the marine life in the lagoon. They have recommended to Iscor and to others who will operate in that area certain ways of disposing of the hot water which they will generate into the sea. Those are the few resolutions which have already been taken. Meanwhile they are continuing active research on the marine life in the whole Langebaan lagoon. This in itself is a project which is unique not only in South Africa, but also in the world. When the hon. member talks about the shortage of staff which we are experiencing, he must remember that we have the CSIR at our disposal at all times and we are making use of them to a great extent for all kinds of scientific research and for the building of projects. Take, for example, the research that was done and the models which were built to establish what the effect would be of the building of the new harbour at Richards Bay. As hon. members will know, they have divided the big harbour area at Richards Bay into two parts and have opened up a new channel to the sea for the part that will not be used for shipping. This channel was made through the dunes after experimentation over a long period by means of a big scale model. This model was built in a building which is much bigger than the House. When the South African Railways decided to spend the money, they knew exactly what the ecological result of a scheme like that would be.

*I now want to refer to the speech made by the hon. member for Vasco. The hon. member made a very telling speech in which he told me that all of us should proceed with great inspiration because we need not doubt for one moment that South Africa has a role to fulfil. It really goes without saying that South Africa has a wonderful role to play here in this country and in Southern Africa. In view of this enormous task, our planning machinery should not be found lacking, and no energy and resources may be wasted. He also said that we should develop our decentralization programme in this process. We have too few people but we can get more people, and hon. members need not doubt for one moment that I shall try and extend my department in order to accommodate more professional people. The hon. member also referred to a scientific policy, and I just want to furnish the House with some figures which will illustrate why it is so necessary that we should have such a policy. As far as all B-degrees are concerned which are awarded in South Africa, the percentage B-degrees in the basic natural sciences dropped from 18% in 1961 to 10,6% in 1973. Of the B.Sc. degrees awarded at our universities, the B-degrees with mathematics as three-year subject dropped from a little more than 10% to 5,2%. With regard to B-degrees with chemistry as a major subject, the percentage dropped from 7,3% to 2,5%, and with regard to B-degrees with physics, the percentage dropped from 4,4% to 0,8 %. Hon. members will appreciate what will become of our research when this is the position prevailing at our universities and when B.Sc degrees with natural science subjects have so little appeal. On the other hand, what will become of our schools and science education in our schools? This is a very important matter as far as the future of South Africa is concerned.

There are many who, as a result of financial considerations, are unable to study at a university.

I should now like to make a brief announcement here. I am doing so because Parliament is the highest authority in this country and because my Vote is now under discussion. I should like to make this known here, because I do not want hon. members to read it for the first time in the newspapers tomorrow or on Monday. If there are any hon. members who want to express criticism on this matter they still have an opportunity to do so. I am also making this announcement because of a speech made by the hon. member for Green Point last year, and a speech that was made by the hon. member for Houghton the year before last. These speeches concerned District Six. I should like to announce today that, after careful consideration of the future destiny of the remaining portion of the area known as District Six in Cape Town, which has not yet been proclaimed a group area, it was decided to declare the area comprising the Zonnebloem College, Walmer Estate and Trafalgar Park as a group area for occupation and land ownership by members of the Coloured group. The said decision is intended to ensure the continued existence of the said Coloured college and the continued residence of the Coloured community in this area. Furthermore, it was also decided to allow the portion of District Six which was declared a White group area on 11 February 1966 and in which urban renewal is already taking place, to continue as such.

Mr. Chairman, I cannot comment in any depth on the area of District Six which has just been mentioned by the hon. the Minister. Unfortunately, because of my lack of intimate knowledge of this area in question, I can only say that, on behalf of the party of which I am proud to be a member, I congratulate the hon. the Minister on the move he has made and announced here this afternoon.

I am also delighted to hear of the plans envisaged for 5 July. We welcome them and assure the hon. the Minister that these plans and thoughts will receive our cooperation and support. It is more than pleasing to see that the environment is receiving more consideration as each day goes by. I wish to refer now to a newsletter just published by the Natal Roads Department dealing with their roads and bridges. The editorial of this report starts off as follows:

Man’s relationship with and, indeed, his attitude towards his environment is fast becoming a matter of grave concern and of urgency. One wonders which will survive the longer. Will the environment survive its constant despoilment and abuse by man, or will man survive without the environment once he has, through this abuse, finally and completely destroyed it? The question I have posed can only be described as a frightening one, but I do not think it is nearly as frightening as the answer, which is inevitable, as long as man continues on his present collision course with nature and his environment. I believe firmly that the time is now, as far as meaningful action is concerned, because tomorrow will be another day towards being too late. Having urged action, I wish to outline a few initial steps that I feel must be taken in order to protect and, in fact, improve the environment, the whole of the environment on the land, in the water and in the air. I believe our duty is clear-cut. I urge firstly that we take the necessary steps in order to identify, publicize and control pollution in all its forms and secondly that we undertake the education of all population groups in the understanding and recognition of their responsibilities in respect of the protection of the environment and its ecology. The identification of pollution should be the responsibility of each and every citizen from the scientist in his laboratory who studies the effluent that flows into our rivers down to the child who should know better than to throw his sweet wrapper down carelessly when walking along the street or in the country. Publicity, however, is a much more complex matter; not only more complex, but also more vital. I feel very strongly that publicity should be initiated by those who manufacture, process or market products or by-products that are either pollutants or cause pollution in one way or another. Publicity should, in my humble opinion, be their responsibility. Control, of course, is a matter of effective legislation followed by policing and prosecution of the persistent law-breaker. Legislation should be strict and I am sincere when I say that I feel that penalties for indiscriminate pollution, in fact any pollution, should be such that every South African will think very carefully before he even so much as drops the wrapper of a cigarette box at his feet.

Let us look at a typical everyday pollutant which almost every one of us deals with. I refer to the plastic container. I am sure that every hon. member will agree that this is the scourge of our modern society, this so-called non-returnable plastic container. I am equally sure that it was intended as a benefit; unhappily it has turned out to be exactly the reverse and the empty discarded plastic container has become an unbreakable, indestructible eyesore that litters our streets, roadways and countryside and even—I am sorry and ashamed to say —our nature reserves and game parks. I would venture to suggest that the manufacturers of these disposable non-returnable plastic containers—I think they should be called “disposable, non-returnable and indestructible”—together with all processors who pack their products into them should be pro rata contributors towards the cost of a national campaign aimed at giving maximum publicity to the dangers of the indiscriminate disposal of the containers in question. I am positive that many metropolitan health and cleansing departments would welcome the day when they are no longer faced with having to clear literally tons of discarded plastic out of blocked drains involving them in needlessly wasted man-hours and in the problems that arise because of the indestructibility of plastic by natural forces. Many examples can be quoted, examples of everyday careless and unthinking actions of which we are all equally guilty and which contribute towards man’s abuse of his environment.

I feel, however, that I should now deal with what I believe to be the most meaningful way of combating pollution, and that is education. Education, they say, begins with the youth. Let us look to the youth in the hope that they will be able to influence the generations to come. Looking at our countryside leads me to believe that we adults are either past redemption or understanding of the urgency of the situation that faces us at this moment in time. I appeal to the hon. the Minister to give serious and urgent attention, naturally in concurrence with the hon. the Minister of National Education, to the thought that steps be taken to insist that all schools for all population groups be equipped to give comprehensive and effective courses of instruction in the preservation of the environment and in the combating of pollution in all its forms.

It is only by educating the youth and creating an awareness in them of the disasters that could befall generations to come should they not heed the danger signs that we will take the first positive steps towards improving man’s attitude and sense of responsibility towards his natural heritage. This has been said before by many people and in many different ways. There was one man who felt so strongly about this that he started a youth movement with many ideas gleaned here in South Africa. I spoke about this in my maiden speech in this House.

This movement has gained world-wide acceptance. Its aims are, among other things, inculcating a love and understanding of nature together with the need for its preservation. I am, of course, referring to Robert Baden-Powell and the Boy Scout movement. I would like to illustrate my point and conclude my speech with a quotation.

The Scouts have declared 1975 to be the Year of Conservation. In doing so they have produced their outdoor code which was initially printed as part of the South African Scouting Digest, dated December 1974. I quote this outdoor code—

That code is a meaningful one and I commend it to the hon. the Minister and this House as being one that all of us would do well to reflect upon when next we are tempted to throw away that wrapper instead of keeping it until we can put it where it belongs, namely in the litterbin.

Mr. Chairman, on this tranquil Friday afternoon when all of us are longing for peace and quiet, I should like to speak to you about the entirely appropriate subject of combating noise. Mr. Chairman, you will probably be able to appreciate this because it is very often your task to warn hon. members to make less noise.

We are concerned about atmospheric pollution, water pollution and other forms of pollution, but we do not always realize the tremendous impact of noise pollution, because we get used to noise. Yes, we even get used to the nagging of a quarrelsome mother-in-law.

And to that of Helen Suzman.

Thousands of city dwellers are far more exposed to the never-ending bustle of noise than to atmospheric pollution. I should like to state that noise pollution has become one of the most oppressive problems in our modern urban life. Everyone is exposed to noise at some time or another.

Order! Hon. members must please make less noise.

Everyone is a victim of noise at some time or other, but everyone is also a culprit at some time or other. In the urban life of today no one can escape noise. That is probably the reason why the city dweller so often longs for the murmur of the wood-pigeon, the call of the stone-plover, the bleating of a flock of sheep and the soil-enriching quiet of the evening twilight on a farm. It forms a glaring contrast to the never-ending bustle of the city where roaring motor cycles deafen the ear and hooters and train whistles cruelly disturb one’s dreams at night.

Except for those people who are slowly but surely growing deaf as a result of noise in the factories where they work, there are thousands outside those factories who, without their realizing it, become irritable and less productive as a result of noise. Experts are of the opinion that if action is not soon taken, the noise level in our cities will double within seven years as a result of the rapid industrial development and the increasing number of vehicles. The experts are also of the opinion that, if drastic steps are not taken to combat noise, it may become a serious threat to the human existence during the next two or three decades. If the rate at which noise increases is maintained, levels could be reached within a decade or two which would be enough to cause psychological ear damage among all city dwellers.

it could lead to babies being unsettled, and they might even suffer after-effects. Among adults it may lead to a loss of vigilance and abnormal behaviour. Noise leads to misunderstandings and misconceptions. It also leads to the waste of time and money and to inefficiency. Millions of man-hours are wasted because of noise and hon. members can imagine how many man-hours are wasted as a result of the fact that people do not get enough sleep because there is too much noise. If one is exposed to sound of a high intensity for a long time, it may even cause the ear-drums to rupture. It may lead to a break down of the hearing mechanism. One wonders whether vocal groups and bands who make use of very powerful amplifiers, realize that they are exposed to the same dangers as boiler-makers. It is also applicable to people who listen to the music and dance to its rhythm.

Hon. members will now ask what we have to do to prevent humanity from becoming insane because of noise. There are many techniques to combat noise and most noise problems can probably be solved, but they cost money and are sometimes very expensive. That is why little or nothing is so frequently done about it. I should like to tell you at once that the authorities are not indifferent to this matter. The Department of Planning and many other bodies are working on it all the time. Legislation was introduced and certain guidelines were laid down, but quite a few people are still asking how it can be allowed that a single buzz-bike can ride down the street with a roaring that deafens the year, and sometimes a whole horde of buzz-bikes in a row. Why are they not silenced?

Vehicles are the greatest source of noise in a city. The Bureau of Standards laid down guide-lines years ago for the permissible noise level of vehicles and how this can be measured. It is now the task of the municipalities to ensure that it is applied. A few cities set a beautiful example in this regard. Johannesburg established a bureau for combating noise with three permanent officials for ensuring silence, who intervene everywhere there is excessive noise, and they are doing very good work. Bloemfontein was the first city in the country which organized a week for silence. During a week like that, without fining anybody, they clamp down on everything which is disturbing and afterwards the city is far more quiet. This is an example which could well be followed. In spite of attempts to tackle the noise problem in general, numerous prestige buildings, blocks of flats, office blocks, churches and hotels are still being built in our country, to the value of many millions of rand, which do not comply with international noise insulation requirements. Even luxury flats which are let at high rentals sometimes have very little noise insulation. There are hon. members in this House who have to whisper to their wives when they come home late at night after evening sittings, so that they do not disturb the people in the neighbouring flat. That proves how poor the noise insulation of the flat is. Many buildings in Europe have double outer doors and windows, which not only exclude noise, but cold and heat as well. Good planning is the key. A residential area cannot be laid out next to a noisy industrial area. I am sorely tempted to say that more and stricter laws should be made, but I do not want to ask for this because I realize that education is equally important. The present legislation for combating noise could possibly be revised, modernized and coordinated to make it more effective. What is necessary at this stage, is a country-wide noise combating campaign to open the ears again to the dangers which threaten them and to eliminate the pockets of noise pollution and to call those people who do not plan correctly and do not take the correct precautionary measures to account.

Mr. Chairman, after the ornate language my hon. friend, the member for Bloemfontein North, used in a very meaningful speech, I want to return to a most important subject in very ordinary language, i.e. environmental conservation. In the first place, I want to congratulate the department on the publication of the very interesting and very well-produced little magazine Environment which is made available to us from time to time. In the edition of March 1975 we read (translation)—

Sir, in the annual report of 1973-’74 we read of the success the department has already achieved in making the people of South Africa aware of the environment. As far as this is concerned, I also want to congratulate the department and express confidence that they will achieve even greater success in this connection. Although I do not have the time to go into details, Sir, I should just like to make a plea in passing for greater utilization on the part of the department of the youth movements to promote this most important matter. It is of importance particularly to the youth because the youth of today will be the nation of tomorrow. Therefore, it is important to involve youth movements in projects to make our people more aware of the environment. In this connection, I think particularly of youth movements such as the Voortrekkers, the Boy Scouts, the Junior Rapportryers, etc. Sir, I speak from experience when I tell you that these youth movements have already proved that they are very susceptible to this and that they are thoroughly prepared to assist in carrying out this very important matter further. Sir, arising from this matter, we also read that mention is made of an emblem which was designed by the department and which is going to be used in the future for certain purposes. May I once again quote from this magazine (translation)—

My plea here this afternoon is that the department, as far as this emblem is concerned, should consider giving a lapel button to scholars who in some way or other have assisted in such an environmental conservation project, as proof of their participation in that project. There really is great interest among younger people for this type of badge, and I think our children can be taught to wear such a lapel button as proof of their participation in such a project proudly. But I also want to ask furthermore whether it is not possible to give a mounted badge to schools where they are involved in such projects in a wider context, a badge which could either be exhibited elsewhere or which could be mounted on the wall or at the door in front of the school as proof that those schools take an active part—not only have taken, but take—in the conservation of the environment which, as the annual report as well as this little magazine puts it, is of the utmost importance for us here in South Africa. I think that if this could be done, we shall find that even greater interest will be activated among our people for this cause.

Mr. Chairman, I should like to associate myself with the sentiments expressed by the two previous speakers on the Government side, and should like to add something to the speech made by the hon. member for Bloemfontein North, who spoke about noise pollution, which can become such a serious problem under uncontrolled circumstances. At the moment there is just such a problem in Port Elizabeth, with the small gauge railway line which runs from Port Elizabeth to the Langkloof, and which wakes up the people in the built-up areas there with the noise its diesel horn makes at night, to such an extent that the inhabitants of that area have already considered instituting legal proceedings. They have already raised this matter with the Railways Administration, and this organization is at a complete loss. The Bureau of Standards has investigated the matter, and I should like to make an appeal to the hon. the Minister now to have this matter investigated by the C.S.I.R., to see whether they cannot be of assistance to these poor people. The problem is that it would cost too much to construct fly-overs. In the meantime this train is expected to blow its horn at every level crossing. The members of Parliament of that vicinity and the mayor, associate themselves completely with the problem of the inhabitants, and it is important to them that this problem be solved.

I believe that the hon. the Minister, too, like the United Party, subscribes to the principles that there ought to be orderly planning for the optimal use of all land by zoning it in advance, particularly for such purposes as nature conservation, open spaces, protected landscape, green belts, recreational development, agriculture for towns and cities, industries, mining and also for transport Channels. We think it is an important principle that one should plan these various needs, particularly in view of our ever-increasing growth in South Africa and the tremendous development which is taking place here. However, it would seem to us as though the hon. the Minister is not giving sufficient attention to some of these aspects I have mentioned here. In the case of the green belts which ought to encircle towns and cities, areas in which one can establish golf courses and parks, we find that the provincial administrations and the municipalities are rather poorly geared to and are poorly informed about this type of planning, and that they are consequently neglecting this aspect quite considerably. The value of green belts and open spaces consists therein that they can prevent urban areas from intermingling, and subsequently becoming one vast area, as is already happening here in the Cape Peninsula, and especially on the Witwatersrand, so that one eventually does not know where one municipal boundary ends and the next one begins. Otherwise these cities become urban hives, vast metropolitan areas which result in uncontrolled horizontal growth and all kinds of problems. Green belts are therefore able to limit uncontrollable growth, to a certain extent and in a pleasant way. They also promote the retention of open spaces, which may be utilized in various ways for the population. The major metropolitan areas are known for the variety of problems which crop up where dense housing occurs, problems such as the loss of identity of the individual, crime, smog, etc. I should like to recommend strongly to the hon. the Minister that he try to promote this concept among municipalities and provincial administrations.

I should also like to ask the hon. the Minister to give serious consideration to the principle of zoning protected landscapes. Particularly here in the Boland, in the South Western Cape, we have the most wonderful, one could almost say, indigenous rural landscape which developed and grew together with the culture of South Africa. This part of the country is known for its beautiful old houses with their whitewashed walls, and the green oak trees, which are a valuable characteristic of South Africa, its cultural background and history. We feel strongly that this ought to be conserved. There are numerous other examples of such landscapes. In the Eastern Province one finds the fortified stone farm houses situated in beautiful surroundings. These landscapes, too, ought to be protected. In the Eastern Free State there are the old sandstone farmhouses, which fit in perfectly against the background of the koppies, and which are an irreplaceable heritage that grew with the country. These landscapes, too, ought to be protected. This is already being done in other countries of the world. In countries such as Holland, this type of landscape is already being preserved. The same applies to England, where they have the protected landscape of Hertfordshire. This is also being done in other parts of the world, and we could emulate these examples to great advantage.

I come now to the mountain areas, which I should also like to bring to the attention of the hon. the Minister. Numerous malpractices are taking place in these areas. We still remember how ex-Minister Jan Haak wanted to establish a town in Du Toitskloof, but this hon. Minister and other bodies did not want to give their approval to such a step. However, we now have an example of a mountain area town which has in fact been allowed to develop. I am thinking of the one established by the Ovenstones near Villiersdorp and the Elandskloof Dam. There were probably eight bodies in Villiersdorp and vicinity which objected to the development of this mountain town on the steep slopes. The town is being constructed on porous sandstone in an area where there are other riparian owners as well. I should like to know from the hon. the Minister whether he was consulted in regard to the establishment of the mountain town, and whether he gave his approval to its establishment. If he did so, I should like to know on what merits he did so. There will undoubtedly be problems in regard to the control of sewerage in that porous soil. It could pollute the water which the people of Villiersdorp and other areas below the dam have to drink. Bodies such as the local farmers’ association, the municipality, the development association and just about every organization in that area objected to this scheme. In spite of that, approval was given to this particular project. We feel dismayed that this kind of thing is happening. That part of the world is a heritage which belongs to all of us and we cannot approve of its being exploited and utilized by a single individual to his own advantage.

Then, too, there are our coastal areas which ought to be preserved. I am thinking in particular of the example of the beautiful farm with the name Bokbaai, which is the only farm that has been proclaimed in its entirety, buildings and all, to be a national monument. In the time of the Dutch East India Company it was a lime-burning works, and anyone of us who has seen that farm with its Dorotheanthus (bokbaaivygies) in bloom, would regard it as one of the most unforgettable memories of his life, and one of the places of which we as South Africans could truly be proud. Now we have heard that the adjoining farm, which encircles that little area, was recently sold by the owners to the Department of Coloured Relations. I am referring now to the farm Gansekraal. I believe that the farm Gansekraal links up naturally with Bokbaai and forms part of the unique heritage of that entire area, and that it ought to be preserved for posterity. There are interesting old buildings on the farm Gansekraal, and we now hear that the construction of a large hospital and possibly a university for the Coloureds is being planned there. There are sufficient other large open spaces and sandflats around Mamre, where this type of development can take place. We should like to see that unique area being preserved for posterity. [Time expired.]

Mr. Chairman, when I discuss the Department of Planning and the Environment, I think back to the words of welcome which I addressed years ago to the present Minister of Defence, when he was Minister of Planning. This was in the little town of Ventersdorp, my town. There I said that in years to come the Department of Planning would have to play an increasingly important part as development took place in our country. Ventersdorp is one of the best planned towns in the Transvaal. It has no pollution, least of all United Party pollution, and it is the playground of good Nationalists. Therefore, I am speaking here with a purified and open mind. As I observe the activities of the Department of Planning and the Environment, it seems to me as though my words were prophetic words, and that the department is becoming increasingly important. Today, I want to say a few things here which will indicate why I make this statement.

Planning must, in the first place, take into account the accepted principle within the political structure of the governing authority, namely that there should be a geopolitical boundary for the Whites in South Africa, within which the Whites are able to maintain permanently, as good and well meaning neighbours, their own political identity, taking into consideration economic and labour interdependence. In the second place planning can never set its sights at the acceptance of a permanent non-Black political-geographic dispensation. We are today living in an era in which Black states are becoming politically independent, but this political independence will not remove all the Black people. Those who will be here, will be here in their capacity as economically active persons who offer labour on a competitive basis, and in regard to which agreements have to be reached. They will be here with no politically decisive powers, but they will have to be provided with all the amenities within the existing and future infrastructures as befits a good employer towards his employee. They will also be entitled, and committed to the recognition of the maintenance of reciprocal human relations, and the planning which will have to take this into consideration. As far as these Black people are concerned, any planning will also have to take into consideration an increase in numbers as a result of development within the established Black, politically independent, States, development under the guidance of the Whites, in which White knowledge and capital, the experience and well-meaningness of the Whites have to be offered as supports. The second aspect which planning will have to take into account in this regard, is an increasing rate of people being sent back. Thirdly, planning will have to take into consideration an unavoidable levelling off of the birth rate as the living standards of the Bantu rise. Planning will also have to take into consideration that Black people will form no integral part of the political or State structure of White South Africa. Their presence in this capacity implies in no way that for the purposes of permanent planning they will be a part of non-Black South Africa. I do not recognize the concept of “non-Black South Africa” as a valid basis and political concept in my political views.

The fact that we have no final blueprint in respect of the geo-political development among the Whites and the Coloureds, will also have to be taken into consideration by planning. We shall also have to take into consideration that on the road of evolutionary development to a future acceptable relationship between Coloureds and Whites, of which we cannot at the moment see the nearest horizon, we will inevitably have to devote serious attention to the upwards socio-economic development of the Coloureds. In this respect planning will play a key role.

Within non-Black South Africa.

The hon. member should not be so sensitive. With any future planning and establishment of growth points we shall have to take thoroughly into consideration the fact that no final development phase has been reached in the geopolitical relationships among Whites and Coloureds, and that this may not be Mocked. In addition, planning will have to give serious consideration to historical realities, social anthropological development lessons, as well as new dimensions which will inevitably develop from the political policy which is today the declared policy of the governing authority, namely no representation in this White Parliament, and that White political power sharing is not inevitably acceptable on the basis of a lack of projected planning.

Planning will have to take into account the growing determination of the Whites to retain for themselves in South Africa a portion as their own—after the Whites have freed others and have helped them—to possess, to cultivate and to guard as their own, and after the Whites have declared their willingness to offer their assistance within the structure of peace and interdependence.

Finally, I want to say that planning will also have to take into consideration the demise of the old politico-state concepts and disciplines, namely the old concept that political and economical independence are prerequisites for the existence of a State. It will also have to take into consideration the substitution for this of the only remaining friction-avoiding political structure, particularly in South Africa, namely the concept of political identity in which dependence on many spheres will be inevitable on a basis of good neighbourliness. In this new politico-state structural system, which is developing before our eyes, surface area and numerical geographic areas will not necessarily be requirements as component parts of a political identity control structure; nor need it be decisive in any future planning projection. [Time expired.]