Mr. Speaker, I move without notice—

Agreed to.

Mr. Speaker, as regards the business for next week, I want to say that on Monday we shall proceed with Orders of the Day Nos. 1 to 11 as they appear on the Order Paper for today. After these have been disposed of, we shall proceed with Order of the Day No. 28, i.e. the Land Survey Amendment Bill. Order of the Day No. 12, the Criminal Procedure Bill, will not come up for discussion next week. After the conclusion of the Second Reading debate on the Liquor Amendment Bill, the Bill, along with the Criminal Procedure Bill, will be moved down the Order Paper and will not come up for discussion next week either. On Wednesday the Railways and Harbours Additional Appropriation Bill and the Post Office Additional Appropriation Bill will be dealt with. Subsequent to that the House will proceed with ordinary legislation.

QUESTIONS (see “QUESTIONS AND REPLIES”).

Mr. Speaker, I move—

Mr. Speaker, since in this debate we shall be emphasizing the contribution of the teacher as such, I want to acknowledge at once that there are other aspects, other spheres, which play an equally important role in the formation of our youth. The contribution of the parents, the contribution of the Church and the contribution of the community form the milieu in which our youth finds its stability, but in order to evaluate the contribution of the teacher correctly it is perhaps essential for us to see his task and his responsibility in the context of the demands made on the youth, the field in which the teacher’s work lies.

I want to concentrate on three facets in particular. The first is the demands made on the studying youth as regards knowledge. Knowledge in breadth and in depth. Those demands must be seen against the background of the world in which the student finds himself. In the second instance there is the sphere in which an onslaught is being made on our youth, the onslaught on the spirit. In the third instance there are the demands made on our youth to have backbone, specifically in the times and the climate we are experiencing. Our youth in our country need backbone to defend our borders, but similarly, our youth need backbone to keep a cool head in the prevailing economic climate and to go on with their work. In this climate the young people must not leave the country, even though they are qualified professional people, but must show that they have backbone and continue to live here and go on with their responsible work. It is in the context of these demands that I want to view the task of education.

Mr. Speaker, a country may have a stable Government, a well-equipped and well-trained Defence Force, a balanced and strong economy, a favourable growth rate, a favourable balance of payments and even a favourable labour situation, but if its youth displays a lack of integrity, enthusiasm, will-power and will to live and to develop, then the future of such a youth and nation is uncertain.

These aspects are not interwoven with the syllabi of the subjects taught, but form the terrain and the point of departure from which the youth begin to develop their identity. This is where the teacher’s work is done. We know that the hon. members sitting here today can undoubtedly look back with great piety, appreciation and love to teachers who taught them in their school days. It is striking that in his first major speech to his people during his inauguration ceremony, Mr. Carter, the new President of the USA, referred to a remark made by a teacher from his high school days. She said—

This is an appropriate quotation. It is in this spirit and this area that a teacher’s work is done, from the child’s pre-primary stage until he is a semi-adult. A child seeks interest and understanding, and it is the task of these people to work with the infant at the pre-primary level. When the child has influenza, he wants the sympathetic hand and understanding of a teacher. In the same way, the older child wants a smile from his teacher when he shares his sandwich with her, and the matric girl, in the midst of her grief and conflict, when the fierce fire of her emotion threatens to tear asunder its restraining bonds, wants understanding from someone who can handle her. The matric boy looking for a hiding wants understanding from a teacher who can work with him. Coping with a matric boy is a process involving a fine nuance of discipline. Discipline is almost like a language consisting of simple words, because a matric boy, while he must not be handled bombastically and roughly, must not be handled in a fawning or banal way either. That boy longs for firm treatment by a capable person.

Mr. Speaker, this morning it is a privilege for me to convey my sincere thanks in this House to a teacher, the hon. member for Boksburg. This hon. member has made an exceptional contribution to the House. Three members of the House were taught by him: the hon. member for Rustenburg, the hon. member for Florida and the hon. member for Standerton. [Interjections.] If the hon. member for Boksburg had had the hon. members of the PRP in his school and class as well—I want to say this to the hon. member for Rondebosch in particular—then, with those solid shoulders and strong hands he would have set them on the right road and they would have been sitting in the right benches today. [Interjections.]

In order to form an idea of the development of our education, against which we seek to evaluate what has to be done in the present circumstances, we should perhaps look back at the course of development of our nation, because education has consistently, at all times, been intimately bound up with the course of development of our nation, which is a young nation. We read in a minor journal from the days of Stellenbosch in 1806 that in the church school the school fees varied from four to 18 pennies per month. The schoolmaster’s salary was 16 guilders per month. Wednesdays and Saturdays were half-days and the only holidays were three days during Easter and eight days during Christmas. If we bear this in mind, then we are living in an enlightened age today. These men really worked hard. During the Great Trek the first place of education north of the Vaal River—I almost said, north of the Hex River mountains—was the shadow of a Voortrekker wagon belonging to schoolmaster Daniel Pheffer. Subsequently we had the development of the northern provinces after the discovery of gold. Nostalgic tales and poems have been written about the youth and the formation of education in that world. In the Barberton area, when gold was discovered along the “Jam Tin Creek”, and in the misty mountains of Pilgrim’s Rest, along Whisky-spruit near Lydenburg, the tale is told of the fellow who was a transport-rider and also a semi-schoolmaster. When visiting the then Lourenço Marques he happened on a sale at which a small church was being sold. He realized that that structure could serve as a church or a school at Pilgrim’s Rest. He bought it and brought it to Pilgrim’s Rest. When he got there, he was very thirsty and so he first went to the canteen to slake his thirst. There he met some of his friends and they decided there and then that what they needed was not a church or a school but another bar. The building has been fitted out and restored, and today hon. members can enjoy a cool drink in that same structure at Pilgrim’s Rest.

In the course of the development of education, we find that the people who have been drawn to education always performed their task with zeal. In the Anglo-Boer War there were about 20 000 children of schoolgoing age in the concentration camps in the Transvaal alone. For the most part the mothers took the education of those children upon themselves. These people worked with dedication. A quotation from the archives of the Transvaal shows that the then Superintendent of Education in the Transvaal, Dr. N. Mansveldt, addressed a letter to a headmaster in Barberton on 4 June 1900. He writes as follows—

This was on 4 June 1900. On the following day the British forces entered Pretoria. Out of this misery of the post-war years, education infused our youth with a new idealism and more confidence in the forming of a nation. These years were not characterized by misery alone. Interesting situations also occurred. I want to quote an extract from a 1918 punishment book concerning a certain incident. Hon. members probably know that a school’s punishment book must be divided into columns. In the first column the following appears—

Now comes the interesting part, Mr. Speaker—

This particular principal was later an hon. member of the Other Place. Later the following insertion was made in the journal, concerning this same incident, to explain the matter to the school board secretary concerned—

Those pupils were tough. We have made progress, Sir, despite what the hon. member for Carletonville said the other day.

As regards the demands made on our youth with respect to the intensive increase of knowledge in the subjects they study, we are faced specifically with the problem that the absorption of knowledge by the child has to take place within a specific time. The child must be able to absorb it within the time at his disposal. We have made vast strides in the natural sciences; we have entered space, and the economic and social sciences are spheres with new matter for in-depth discussions. We had to enrich the curricula to be dealt with within the time which the length of a day allows our education.

This work has to be presented to our children by our teachers. It is not only the gifted children who are able to attend the ordinary school under normal circumstances. Thanks to our departments, officials and our Ministers, provision is also made for those children who are unable to attend ordinary school. Brilliant work is being done. One need only call to mind the school for the blind, the schools for the visually handicapped, the deaf, epileptics, the physically handicapped, the cerebral palsied and the autistic child, the closed person who can communicate with no-one and who separates and shuts himself off from the world. There are also the schools for the mentally retarded, and apart from these there is the division of industrial schools and reformatories. Fine work is being done. Teachers working in this field are exceptional people with exceptional equipment, idealism, dedication and training. What we find praiseworthy is that the number of children in industrial schools and reformatories, expressed as a percentage of the studying youth in our country, comprises about 0,003 per cent. I think that it is a fantastic achievement on the part of the teacher that such a small percentage of our children need be placed in that type of school. I think that these people are doing pioneer work for us in that regard in comparison with the White nations of other countries. In 1914 about 11% of all Std. 6 pupils reached the matriculation level. At the moment the average percentage in our country is 54%. It is a remarkable achievement that 54% of our children progress to that level. We are now entering the new era in which an onslaught is also being made on our youth in regard to his spiritual and cultural resources, the moral sphere and the hearts and minds of our youth. At this level, a grey and dangerous level, an onslaught is being made on the morality of our people, which aims to undermine what we want to preserve in our youth. They put a lie in our mouths to the effect that we clash with the youth, that there is a generation gap between the youth and ourselves, because we do not understand them and we interpret them incorrectly and they do not understand us and are drifting away from us. This is not true. Our youth belong to us; they want to be part of us; they want to be involved together with us. Our youth is inquisitive and full of a love of life. The eyes of the youth are clear and full of expectation. They hold out their hands to the future; their eyes are shining with sincerity and turbulent energy courses through their veins. The youth are honest in the confidence they show us and they are courageous on our borders. That is why many statements made by prophets of doom are false. I refer to authors such as Jerry Rubin, Herbert Marcuse and the Beatle when he sings: “He is a nowhere man, sitting in his nowhere land, making nowhere plans for nobody. He does not have a point of view, does not know where he is going …” Our youth carry in their hearts a clear message to us as well, and we must bear in mind that the contributions and abilities of those young people are far more important to us than the language they may use at this stage as adolescents. During the Republic festival in 1971, when the Republic was 10 years old, a youth leader said the following—

This is the field of activity of our education which works with the youth. The youth ask of us sincerity in our decisions, honesty in our daily task, honesty and sincerity in our contact with them, courage and guidance. In the present milieu I can probably say that a youth that destroys its schools and burns its books does not have a future in this country. On the other hand, a youth that values that which is offered to them and from which they can grow, with the guidance of the teachers that are available, has a future in this country. That is why I want to convey my sincere thanks to our teaching corps for guiding our youth and for directing their souls’ eyes to the light, for leading our youth towards the open roads, the free winds and the glorious sun. We want to thank them for taking the hands of our children and guiding them.

In this connection I trust that the newly established South African Teachers’ Council will be a vigorous organization which will influence education and instil them with enthusiasm, that it will carry them so that they can grow, of themselves, into a task force which we as the Government will be able to rely on a great deal in the future. May that body really be a vigorous organization for the sake of our people and our country. I want to request the hon. the Minister, as regards the recruitment of students in education, that we should transcend provincialism, that we should pool those people, assist them with bursaries and not limit them to a specific province, but allow them to be of service to our whole country. Natal has an oversupply of students who can take English as a subject and who want to do so. I am seeking an opportunity for the Transvaal to use those people because there is a grave shortage of those students in the Transvaal. Then, however, we must give those students the opportunity to feel free to go and work in that sphere. When such a student has completed his studies, he must be enabled to fulfil his obligations towards a central body wherever he may be able to go and work. In my opinion it is vital that we should do this. May we ask our Minister to overcome all the historic obstacles and difficulties so as to reach the man and the child in the classroom. They will appreciate it, as they appreciated it when he acted at Volksrust on another occasion, at another function, and when he stood among children.

I am sincerely grateful for the opportunity we have had in this House this morning to thank our teachers. May we ask them to inspire our children with new zeal and enthusiasm in this beautiful country of ours with its tremendous challenges but with its fine future.

Mr. Speaker, let me say right at the outset that the hon. members for Standerton, Rustenburg and Florida rose in my estimation today, because if they could achieve so much with a teacher like the hon. member for Boksburg, just imagine how much more they could have achieved if they had someone else as a teacher!

If they had had you, they would only have been half a person.

The hon. member for Standerton moved a motion here which affords us an excellent opportunity to conduct a fruitful debate on a very important matter, a matter which requires the attention of this House, i.e. the relationship between teacher and pupil. The hon. member made quite a number of statements with which I quite agree in certain respects. There are perhaps certain statements with which I do not agree and my reasons for it will become clear in the course of my speech. However, the first point I wish to put pertinently and bring to the attention of the House, is that although it is appropriate for us to express our gratitude towards the teaching corps, it is nevertheless regrettable that we have to do so under circumstances where teachers have for a considerable time been kept on a string with all kinds of fine promises, although probably well meant, of improved salary scales and post structures.

Come to the point now.

Wait a minute. It is important that we should see the matter in its true perspective. When I think back to last year’s budget debate and the speech of the hon. the Minister of Finance, I can still recall his promise to the House that education would be singled out for special treatment. After almost a year we now know that it has only been hollow promises up till now. The teachers are simply receiving the same treatment as any other Government department, i.e. they have only received a 10% increase. While expressing our thanks to them now, I want to sound the warning on this occasion that it is a dangerous game to keep people on a string. This is the one problem I have with the motion as it stands here. Motions such as these could very easily have the wrong effect, especially when people, to whom gratitude is expressed, have the feeling that the authorities are indulging in fine talk to keep them quiet and pacify them. However, one has to realize one thing. Teachers are also human. They are not machines or robots. As a result of this kind of action on the part of the authorities, some of them have developed a measure of scepticism. We do not have to agree with this; we do not have to say whether it is right or wrong. We should only take into account that it is indeed the case. However, it will be no use trying to argue matters away. There are people in the teaching corps today who feel that they are probably entitled to more than merely an expression of gratitude. On the other hand there are, of course, also those who appreciate only too well that they can really make a far greater contribution towards the formation of a sound youth in South Africa, that our educational system is still suffering from certain shortcomings, and that these shortcomings affect the entire relationship between pupil and teacher. As a result of this influence the formation of a sound youth, as the hon. member called it, is affected.

†It is for this reason that I move the following amendment—

We, as legislators, must thank the teachers, and let me say at once the teachers of all races in South Africa, for their efforts and contributions to education in general. They deserve such thanks, especially when we consider the difficult circumstances under which some of them have to perform their duties. However—and this is the reason for my amendment—simply to confine our appreciation to the one aspect, i.e. the formation or the building up of a sound youth would, I believe, be inappropriate at this stage. Also, in determining exactly what a “sound youth” means, one has to move into the realm of moral and value judgments where disputes are inevitable. Whereas it is relatively easy to agree that words such as “good”, “bad”, “right”, “wrong”, “sound” and “unsound” have both meaning and proper application, there is likely to be, and in fact is, strong disagreement about the proper field of application of these words. Let me give a rather extreme example. We all believe that democracy leads to a sound system of government. On the other hand, we all believe that revolutions should be regarded as evil, wrong and bad. Consider the following, however. Democracy was brought to France as the result of a successful, bloody revolution. Was the revolution of 1789 therefore the result of the influence of sound or unsound philosophers? This illustrates the problem we have when we move into the realm of a value judgment such as the one we are debating here today as a consequence of the motion before the House which raises the issue: What is a sound youth? This is especially true if one takes into consideration that in South Africa, as perhaps throughout the world, there is an inevitable clash between the authoritarian and libertarian approaches in education.

It is extremely difficult to reach unanimity on whether for instance the particular type of education our children receive is in fact conducive to the formation of a really sound youth. We must also, therefore, bear in mind that here in South Africa, as a result of no reason other than historical reasons, the adherence to the authoritarian approach to education on the one hand and to the libertarian approach on the other can roughly be divided along the Afrikaans-English language lines.

Under these circumstances one finds further that it is virtually impossible for a person in education to be an objective judge because every person in fact becomes a victim of his own educational environment. I personally, for instance, am the product of an authoritarian educational environment.

You certainly did not become a victim of yours.

Placed in a classroom …

What were you doing at Potchefstroom?

The hon. the Deputy Minister, who is the member for Potchefstroom, must just listen to me. If I am placed in a classroom situation, no matter how hard I try, I shall also inculcate this authoritarian approach into my pupils because, as a result of the education I have received, I have become a victim of it. I am quite sure that it will be shown even amongst the members of the House who will be taking part in this debate that they are victims of one of those two approaches. The English speaking members will prove that they have a libertarian approach to education. They cannot help it. It is for this reason that I refrain from using the words “sound youth” in my amendment.

*What I did mention, was that there were certain shortcomings in our educational system, shortcomings affecting both the teachers and the pupils. Certain members on this side of the House will deal more specifically with this aspect. I believe that if we are able to eliminate those shortcomings, we shall succeed in coming closer to the concept of “sound youth”, whether we have a liberal or an autocratic approach to education. In this regard I should like to refer hon. members to a certain aspect. I am glad the hon. member for Standerton mentioned this. The other day in the debate on the Part Appropriation Bill, the hon. member for Carletonville made a speech which one cannot simply brush aside. Let us not take into account the fact that certain parts of his speech were aimed at a party congress and there were certain things on which I am unable to agree with him. For example, he said that what is being taught in the primary school has not changed at all since the time when Cas Greyling attended primary school 55 years ago. However, he also referred to other aspects. For example, he raised the stimulating thought of economic preparedness. As far as I am concerned, he was right on target in that respect. If the youth of a country want to claim to be a healthy youth, one also expects them, as the hon. member for Carletonville said, to have developed an economic preparedness. This is also a prerequisite for the education of the human being in the full sense of the word. Nevertheless, it seems to me that we have not even taken the initial steps in this matter. In this regard a shortcoming exists in our educational programme, a shortcoming which, to my mind, we should eliminate.

The hon. member for Standerton also mentioned the three facets which have to be emphasized, and mentioned particularly the facet of knowledge which is one of the most important facets in the educational set-up and in the classroom situation. What we find, is that in the classroom situation, as a result of the world in which we are living today and the enormous increase in knowledge, the teacher is placed in a position where he has to deal with comprehensive syllabuses. These syllabuses are so comprehensive in certain cases that in fact an impersonal relationship arises between the teacher and the child, because the most important factor in this classroom situation is really a race against time in an attempt to feed the child with as much knowledge as possible in order to get him through an examination at the end of the year. The result is that an unnatural relationship exists between the teacher and the pupil. Of course, it may be that this has to a certain extent a beneficial effect on people in times of crisis, but this is something I believe we should give more attention to. We find that there is so little personal contact in the world of today. We even find that personal contact has diminished in our family life particularly now that we have television. We find that that contact between one person and another is diminishing. We shall have to try to do everything in our power to see to it that we get smaller class units in South Africa in order to improve personal relations.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Durban Central gave one the impression, in his amendment as well, that he does not have much confidence in the teaching corps of South Africa, nor in the youth of South Africa. I do not want to react any further to the speech of the hon. member, except to say that one often hears the expression in common parlance today that the teacher is not a person, and that he has a teacher’s mentality. I cannot agree with this either, but suppose it were the case, however, then I was firstly a person and then a teacher. Therefore I know what I am talking about this morning, and it is a great privilege for me to participate in this debate.

I am grateful that the hon. member for Standerton moved this motion, so that the hon. House can take note of what is being done by our teaching corps and also what is being achieved through the work of our teaching corps. Education is a very important aspect in our national economy and education is not always rated and appreciated at its true value. Education and instruction, teaching, are as old as mankind and as long as there is life, there will be education and upbringing. There is a very close connection between life and education and upbringing. We all know that life is dynamic; life develops. From time to time certain changes occur and therefore I am also grateful to be able to say that education is dynamic. Mr. Speaker, it is good that we should be discussing the excellent work of the teaching corps in South Africa in depth here today. Cognizance should be taken of the excellent work which is being done by our teaching corps. There are a few facts which deserve attention. Firstly I want to refer to the idealism of our teaching corps. Was it not for the high degree of idealism, the results would not have been so rich with possibilities. We ought to be grateful for, and to appreciate, the idealism which is found in the ranks of our teachers. Without that idealism, we would not have had such a large teaching corps nor would they have been so inspired to fulfil their vocation. Remove the idealism and the awareness of the vocation disappears, and the youth of our nation is no longer basically sound.

The contribution of the teaching corps is indispensable to the formation of a youth in national life that is sound to the core. Therefore I am grateful that as far as new and improved salary structures and conditions of service are concerned, our teaching corps has been placed on a new path, a path on which they have unfortunately never been before.

Mr. Speaker, on behalf of the teaching corps of South Africa I may certainly tell the hon. the Minister of National Education that there is gratitude and appreciation for the initiative which he displayed in placing the teaching corps on that road. Mr. Speaker, today we are comforted by the thought that these people are definitely travelling a new road as far as these things are concerned. However, it is a pity—and the hon. member for Durban Central ought to realize this—that it has not been possible to inform them of the content of these improved salary structures and conditions of service.

Mr. Speaker, these things do not happen overnight, and once again I want to tell that hon. member that I am convinced that the hon. the Minister will soon be able to give those people that information. I also find it a pity that I have to say now already that in most cases it will probably not be possible to put these new salary structures and new conditions of service into operation in the foreseeable future. We are aware of the list of priorities which exists today, and once again I want to say that the teaching corps of South Africa is content to know that they are being placed on a new road and that they can have the assurance that the hon. the Minister will put the new salary structures and new conditions of service into operation as soon as possible. I hope that it will happen sooner than is expected at the moment.

The teacher cannot be remunerated for all his diligence, trouble and the hours which he sacrifices beyond his usual work. He makes this sacrifice because he is encouraged by his idealism and not with a view to remuneration. We all know that he cannot be remunerated. The greatest reward of a good teacher is when, after he has discovered that one of the children in his class is unhappy, he has succeeded in making that child happy. The greatest reward of the teacher is when he has to explain a rather difficult concept to the children, and he sees their faces lighting up one after the other as they grasp what he is explaining to them. I am grateful to say that teaching today still complies with the demands of constructive education.

This morning I should like to address a plea to the hon. the Minister for attention to be given once again to the re-establishment of after-hour courses or classes in order to prepare professional people for the teaching profession, precisely with a view to the advancement and extension of this idealism. If someone who is in possession of one or more university degrees should decide to enter the teaching profession, he must be afforded the opportunity of qualifying professionally outside his working hours. The students who made use of the after-hours training when it still existed sometime ago, have achieved a great deal. These are people who were perhaps able to do so only after having reached an advanced age, or had developed to such an extent, that they felt that they would like to make a contribution to the development of our country and our nation by entering the teaching profession.

One of those people who, after matriculating, trained as a teacher after-hours, is today a vice-rector at one of the universities in our country. I believe that he is extremely well-suited to teaching.

In my opinion, when I look at education, the basic principle lies therein that the individual, since he is placed in a certain milieu, should be trained and educated to fit into that milieu. This is the point of departure as far as I am concerned and this is why we have the training, the instruction, the education, the teaching, of man as a whole. I think that the teaching corps which our country has and has had at its disposal, has succeeded brilliantly over the years in educating people as a whole. Then I also want to take cognizance of the wonderful youth of South Africa today. I take cognizance of the contribution which the teaching corps has made to our fine youth. We can definitely be proud of our youth. We can be grateful for that great asset in our domestic economy. I see the hon. member for Durban Central is sitting over there and laughing. I do not know whether he is laughing at the fact that I say that the youth is prepared. I want to tell that hon. member that I was almost shocked to note that, in an aircraft, despite the request of an air hostess for people to remain seated until the aircraft had come to a halt, it was not the young people who shot out of their seats, but the old ones. It was not the young people who jumped up while that aircraft was moving. The people could therefore not have been brought up badly, but became bad when they were grown up. This is the problem. No one can show me a school which is untidy and where a lack of discipline prevails. The youth of today is equally well-equipped, if not more so, to face up to the demands, the challenges and the responsibilities of the times in which we are living. I have no doubt that they are equally well-equipped for the times in which they are living, perhaps better than their predecessors could ever have imagined themselves to be, to meet the challenges of those times. The youth of today can also live, and if necessary, will also die for their country and nation. When we look at the dilemma in education today, we must stop for a moment and look around us. We can look at the immense factors which prevail in our milieu, factors which are continually influencing one. We know that the world shrank after the two world wars. People who had previously lived in a remote corner of the world now became neighbours. We know about the industrial development and urbanization, with all the evils which accompany it, inter alia, that well-tried values are thrown overboard. We know of the frustrations as a result of a lack of space. We know of the housing shortage, poverty and broken families. We live in times where families merely sleep and eat together. Otherwise they live in different worlds. We think of divorce and the problems caused by working mothers, as well as of neglected children, maltreatment of children, illegitimate children, alcoholism and the shirking of responsibilities. Furthermore there is licentiousness, brutalization, the freedom of the individual, misplaced humanism, and the criticism and rejection of authority.

Our South African youth has to fight and resist all these attacks on its soul and spirit. Our South African teaching corps has to be equipped for this—and they are—and dedicate their time, attention and whole lives to the great task of educating children under these circumstances in which we are living, in a changed and ever changing world. I read the following in the Transvaal Educational News Flashes (third term, 1976)—

These are the things which are always in the foreground in the attitude and approach of our teaching corps in regard to their task. I know what I am talking about, because I have practical experience of the demands of the days in which we are living. I learned to know the child and I know what sacrifices a teacher has to make. At the time when I was still working, I felt no need to rest after my daily task, but when I was a teacher, I gave myself to such an extent that I felt that I had expanded myself and needed some rest in the afternoon. I therefore want to express our thanks and appreciation to the teaching corps, as well as our greatest appreciation and confidence in the basically sound youth of South Africa.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Hercules has sought to give praise to the teachers of our country, and rightly so. I was going to say that it was impossible to overestimate the contribution which teachers make to our society or even to exaggerate their importance to the community at large, but having listened to the speakers on that side of the House who have taken us into the realm of poetic fancy, I realize that they have perhaps found the words which I have not been able to find in thanking the teachers of our land. We are, however, given the opportunity in the motion which is before this House, to pay tribute to the teachers of South Africa and one does this without any qualification whatsoever.

With the appointment of a new Minister of National Education there has come a promise of a new deal for teachers and schools in recent months. There have certainly been signs from the Government that it recognizes the importance of teaching as a profession and the need to give them greater assistance in order to focus on their primary responsibility, namely teaching, rather than merely administration. We must, however, join with the hon. member for Durban Central in saying that it is a matter for regret that because of the economic situation teachers are still waiting for an increase in salaries and a restructuring of posts. I want to urge the hon. the Minister of National Education and the Government as a whole to demonstrate our gratitude and appreciation to the teaching profession in the most tangible way possible, namely to implement the new salary and post structures with the minimum of delay. This kind of action will carry far more weight than any motions of thanks in this House. It is not good enough simply to utter words, unless they are going to be carried forward by action.

The mover of this motion, the hon. member for Standerton, has referred in his motion to “the formation of a sound South African youth”. This brings us to the second half of the motion, because while we express our gratitude to the teachers on the one hand, on the other hand the question arises what we really mean by “a sound South African youth”. These words are subject to many interpretations and I would like to suggest, for the consideration of the hon. the Minister and of this House, certain guidelines which will assist in bringing about a sound South African youth. I do this against the background of a changing, turbulent South Africa. I do it against the background of the knowledge that the young people who are in school today will be facing the awesome responsibilities of South Africa tomorrow. It is therefore of fundamental importance that we understand or get to the heart of what it means to have young people in South Africa who are going to be able to carry this land forward into peace, order, stability and justice.

I therefore suggest the following guidelines in relation to this motion. Firstly, if we are going to aim for a sound South African youth we must accept that the term “South African youth” refers not only to White young people but to young people of all race groups. We cannot live in isolation, and any education policy or plan which seeks to emphasize difference and isolation is failing South Africa. It is not always remembered that of 9 million young people in South Africa between the ages of five and 19—these are the 1970 figures—only one million were White. Of the 5½ million pupils in school today—and these are 1976 figures I am referring to—fewer than 900 000 are White. If we are therefore going to have a sound South African youth, one of the first things is the acceptance of the reality that when we are talking of young people in South Africa who are going to bear the responsibilities of tomorrow, we have to take into consideration the fact that we are together in South Africa and that we are not separate.

The second guide-line in any understanding of a sound South African youth is the implementation of free and compulsory education for all children irrespective of race or colour. Here too one cannot expect young people to accept the responsibilities which we believe they must unless they are given the opportunities and unless they are shaped, assisted and equipped with the necessary tools for tomorrow’s world. A former Secretary for Bantu Education described his department in the following manner, and this was quoted by Prof. Kgware, the Rector of the University of the North when he gave an address at Tusca last year—

[Interjections.] This is not something that we from these benches are saying. I am quoting to hon. members the words of a former Secretary of that department.

What is the point you are making?

The point that I am making is just this. We talk about a “sound South African youth”, but if we have so blinkered ourselves in our way of thinking as to imagine that we are talking only about less than a million young people in South Africa and totally ignore the fact that there are millions of young people in South Africa, then we will, of course, go on making the same mistake. In African education 10 000 teachers—that is one out of every seven— have neither matriculation nor a teacher’s certificate and that is the point I want to make.

If this motion is to be accepted responsibly by this House, we must accept the total population in South Africa. Thirdly, I believe that the establishment of parallel-medium schools—and this remark I address particularly to the hon. the Minister—is a top priority in order that English-speaking and Afrikaans-speaking children may grow up side by side, thereby counteracting the fear and the suspicion that often exists between the two groups.

What school did you attend? [Interjections.]

Order!

I am coming to that now. I was at school with the hon. member for Oudtshoorn. [Interjections.] Unfortunately something went wrong with him after he left school. There is nothing wrong with the school, however. I think he will take my word for that. To be absolutely serious, even during the course of this week we have had renewed references to the old, traditional enmity—if you like—between English-speaking people and Afrikaans-speaking people. We all know, however, that we simply cannot afford that kind of situation in South Africa today. I believe that if we are going to move towards a sound South African youth …

Are you against private schools?

No. I am not against private schools at all. I think that people should have the right to have their schools. What I am saying is that the State has a specific responsibility to make it possible for people with English and Afrikaans backgrounds to come together so as to bridge the gap that exists today in South Africa. Fourthly, I believe that we need to accelerate the teaching of an African language in all White and Coloured schools. Obviously it is preferable for this to be done by African teachers who are most familiar with their own language, culture and background. I believe this would also assist in the formation and the shaping of a sound South African youth for tomorrow. In the fifth place, I believe that we need some commitment. In spite of the debate we had last year, I raise the matter again. We need a commitment to a non-racial professional teachers’ council so that teachers, who have a common objective, i.e. the career of teaching, can receive assistance and help from one another.

I believe that this would also assist the young people in South Africa. In the sixth place, I believe that if we are going to look towards the future and help the youth of tomorrow, and if we are going to help the South Africa of tomorrow, we need immediate permission for church schools to accept any children, irrespective of race or colour, as pupils. I hope the hon. the Minister will hear these words because he has a direct responsibility in this matter. I hope that provincial administrators will also hear these words and be guided by this hon. Minister because I think he has a great deal more than most of them have.

That is not saying very much!

If that is the wish of those schools, it should be permitted. This, I believe, would counter the incredible breakdown in relationships between Black and White young people in South Africa today. It is particularly true that young people, at this time, are full of suspicion and fear of each other, and if we are going to have peaceful development in South Africa, we must point the way, I believe that the Church is called …

To teach!

… in its task to point the way ahead. Yes, to teach, and to teach us to lose our prejudices and fears, and particularly the kind of prejudices and fears that hon. member has. There is a final point I should like to make. We must distinguish between education and propaganda. If we are going to have a sound South African youth for tomorrow, we must be very careful that our teaching does not merely become propaganda. This, I think, is best expressed by the philosopher and educationalist, Martin Buber, and I quote—

Too often, what goes under the guise of education in many countries—and our own country is not exempt from this—is far closer to propaganda. It is possible to have for all in South Africa an education that will simply mean the extension of totalitarianism, i.e. education for servitude rather than for freedom which leads to true responsibility. Again in the words of Martin Buber—

In making a response to the motion before the House, I submit it is better to encourage the stammering question than to deliver a packaged answer.

If I am to sum up what I have tried to say here this morning, I want to suggest that the teacher’s responsibility, which is very, very far-reaching, is to help young people in South Africa today to answer three questions. The first is inevitably one of identity—“who am I?”. The struggle to discover the answer to that question, I believe, will assist in the motion becoming successful. Secondly, no child, no man or woman, can ask the question “who am I?” without also asking “who are you?”, the other person with whom he or she has to coexist in this country. That in turn enables them, finally, to ask the question “who are we?”, so that we can build the kind of South Africa that is necessary, a South Africa of peace and justice.

Mr. Speaker, regrettably the time rules of the House preclude me from responding to any remarks made by previous speakers in this debate. However, I have my own little problem. I want to say at the outset that this motion deals justifiably with an expression of appreciation to all reachers. It goes without saying that we in these benches are very conscious of the fact that the teachers of this country are worthy of more than just an expression of appreciation. We also feel that, obviously, this motion is levelled at the teachers’ corps across the colour bar. It is levelled at all teachers, teachers of all colours. The amendment of my hon. colleague, the member for Durban Central, is, I believe, worthy of serious consideration because, in moving it, he made mention of the appreciation that is due to this corps. He also made special reference to the appreciation that is due to those of the teaching corps who work under extremely difficult conditions.

It is my intention this morning to bring to the notice of the House a situation where there is a dedicated headmaster and an equally dedicated team of teachers working under the shortcomings of the present educational system. This group is battling against enormous odds, odds which, I sincerely suggest, could be considered as occupational hazards in the field of Bantu education. The majority of these hazards are there because of the actions of their superiors. In other words, these hazards are there because of the system. What do we understand by a system? I think the system may be defined as the tools we give the teachers’ corps to work with. Surely, we must include in this system the relationship between the Ministers and the various regional directors, and so on down the line to the teacher.

I intend now to detail a most alarming state of affairs that exists in respect of a State-owned Bantu school situated at Umhlali on the North Coast of Natal. This is a school with a dedicated teaching staff and approximately 300 pupils. I venture to suggest that 300 pupils does not exactly represent a small school. Sir, I believe I must trace the relevant series of events back to 10 March of last year, viz. slightly short of a year ago. On 29 April I congratulated, in the House, the Deputy Minister of Bantu Education on his appointment to his post, and I reminded him in my speech that he had not as yet replied to certain submissions I had made to him on 10 March. He then replied to me and stated that he had not as yet had any information. He was awaiting information from his directorate in Pietermaritzburg. On the 30th, the following day, he said that he thought he had a little information to give to me. On 18 May he wrote me a letter confirming the information that he had given me verbally and included in it was a statement that a piece of land had been acquired—which I knew about—and that a school building comprising three classrooms and the principal’s office, together with a storeroom, was erected. He went on to say that the enrolment had increased and that the department was compelled to lease a building, comprising two classrooms, belonging to the Methodist Church. He went on to say that the Government pays R7 per month for sanitary services and 35 cents per thousand gallons of water. This is a long screed and unfortunately time precludes me from dealing with it in all the detail that I would like to. However, I then received a letter from the Victoria County Farmers’ Association who were very perturbed about the conditions in this school. I quote: “The Deputy Minister says (1) the department was compelled to lease a building comprising two classrooms belonging to the Methodist Church. ” There is in fact a building comprising one classroom. “(2) The Government pays R7 per month for sanitary services. In fact, a Mr. Ntuli is paid R12 per month out of school funds.” The Government does not pay a tickey. “(3) The Government pays 35 cents per 1 000 gallons for water.” The fact of the matter is that there are two 2 000 gallon tanks at either end of one building. There is not a drop of water laid on in the school at all. “(4) Parents summarily made contributions towards the cost of an extra wood and daub classroom.” There is no wood and daub classroom. There is in fact a wooden-slat classroom which is on the point of collapse. This is where this system breaks down.

On 21 June the hon. the Minister asked me in a letter—

On 2 September 1 wrote to the Minister stating—

I spelt this all out for the hon. the Minister. This was on 2 September 1976. I received an acknowledgement on 14 September and was informed that my letter was receiving attention. That was a good birthday present as that happens to be my birthday. On 31 January 1977 a note was sent across the floor of this House to me by the hon. the Deputy Minister and he says—and I am translating as I go—

What earthly chance has the teachers’ corps of South Africa got of doing anything for the children of South Africa when the system allows this sort of situation to develop?

Mr. Speaker, in this motion the issue is not the bottlenecks in education. The issue is primarily and exclusively one of appreciation of the services of the teaching corps which, even in spite of bottlenecks, real bottlenecks, vigorously assist in the formation and building up of a sound youth. I use the word “assist” advisedly, because it is a generally accepted fact that the family, the school and the church each has its contribution to make towards the education and formation of our young people.

In the present South African set-up I also want to add the South African Defence Force to the three above-mentioned institutions. It is impossible to determine the share of each of these institutions in the ultimate product. However, it is clear that should one of these bodies play a less effective part due to circumstances, the burden on the other bodies would have to increase accordingly if the end product is to remain the same. It is also generally accepted that due to changed socioeconomic circumstances which have meant, amongst other things, that both the father and mother must work, the formative influence of the family has decreased alarmingly. In many cases the family has a negative instead of a positive influence and the product of such a negative family contribution is now being placed on the shoulders of the school, the church and the Defence Force. Furthermore one must bear in mind that, in the formation and education of our young people, we are dealing with children and with young people who are mercilessly exposed to influences from outside and from within the borders of our country, influences which endlessly and deliberately obstruct the processes of formation and education.

I refer to only a few of these trends and influences. Only consider the attitude to be found amongst children and young people throughout the would in their rebellion against any form of authority—the authority of the parent, the authority of the teacher, the authority of the State and even the authority of God. Consider, too, the ghastly, but seductive spirit of permissiveness, and of the free love which is now being shamelessly propagated, directly and indirectly, by newspapers, magazines and other media.

We must now bear in mind that the children and young people who are born, grow up and live in this climate, must be educated and formed by us, the fathers and the mothers in the family context, the teachers in the school context, and the clergyman in the church context. This is the challenge with which our teachers are being faced today, the challenge to build a healthy youth for our nation in such circumstances and against such odds.

Mr. Speaker, before we can determine whether the teaching corps has succeeded in building a sound youth, we must first determine for ourselves what the characteristics of a sound youth are. I shall only refer to a few of those characteristics which, in my opinion, go to make a sound youth. In the first place I want to say that the young people are sound if they are and remain attached to God, if they maintain their faith in their Creator in word and deed and if their lives are characterized in this way by the maintenance of unchanging Christian norms. In the second place, I say that the youth are sound if they are and remain attached to their country and nation and are prepared at all times to live and work for their country, but also to die if they must. In the third place the youth is sound if it is disciplined and always prepared to recognize authority in all its forms. In the fourth place, the youth is sound if it is balanced in its behaviour; that is to say, if it knows and chooses the golden mean between work and play, serving and deserving. In the fifth place, the youth is sound if it is always striving for the expansion of its knowledge and the improvement of its academic qualifications to the best of its abilities, not as an end in itself, but as a means to the end of service to its community, its country and its nation.

Having mentioned all this, the question arises: How does our youth stand up to the test of being sound in the light of the abovementioned characteristics? If they do stand up to the test, what share does our teaching corps have in this? In this connection, let us consider the opinion of Soeker, the well-known columnist in Die Burger—

I can testify with deep gratitude, and hon. members of the House can gratefully take note of, the major services which our teaching corps render in this sphere, thus in fact helping to build up the sound spiritual life of our young people.

In this connection I have in mind the work of our Christian student societies, English as well as Afrikaans, of our Sunday schools and of the major role which the teaching corps plays in this connection. They are the leaders of the societies in our school life who accomplish this spiritual labour. I am thinking of the Bible study groups, the SCA camps, the SCA beach services etc. In these spheres it is the men and women of the teaching corps who are the leaders. On this occasion I hope I may refer to one of the most moving scenes I have ever experienced in my life. A first rugby team, healthy well-built boys, formed a circle before the game began and uttered a prayer. If one tries to trace the origin of this fine gesture, one finds that it is the quiet influence of the teacher in the context of the SCA who inspired those boys to praying spontaneously before a rugby match. I might also mention the prayer meetings of which many of us have had experience and which are arranged by children during school breaks. They feel a need to be nourished and strengthened spiritually. This is why they spontaneously arrange these prayer meetings.

You will forgive me, Sir, if I refer to another case. The son of a self-confessed atheist was a member of the SCA. One evening he asked his parents’ permission to attend a meeting. After he had left, the father, a godless man at that stage, told his wife that he would like to see what his son was doing at that so-called SCA. He went and sat at the back of the hall and the meeting continued. Then there was an opportunity for prayer. He was amazed to hear that his own son was saying the prayer. That experience converted that man. The son is a clergyman today. In spite of the negative influence his home had upon him, he was guided towards that wonderful vocation by his teachers in the SCA.

We call to mind the dedicated men and women who undertake religious instruction in the schools. Mr. Speaker, do you and I realize that it really happens in this country that a boy in Std. 6 arrives at high school and has never become acquainted in any way with the Bible as the Word of God? Through the inspired teaching methods of a teacher it happens that a boy like this comes to the teacher a few weeks later and says: “Sir, I am interested in that book which you call the Bible; can you get hold of one for me?” After a few more weeks the same boy came and said: “Sir, I am interested in becoming a member of a church community.” This is the kind of work done by our teaching corps in the spiritual sphere.

In the second place they also succeed because our young people are committed to their country and their nation and are prepared to live, work, fight and die for our fatherland. Do we need to seek a finer example than the much-lauded conduct of our sons in the Defence Force on our borders? The share of the Defence Force in the formation of our young people can never be sufficiently praised and appreciated. I want to allege that those boys who serve on our borders went there with a spirit of willingness—this they learnt at school—to live and to die in the defence of their fatherland.

Our young people are balanced. They can play and they can work, because they are taught to do so by the teaching corps in the schools. Mr. Speaker, have you and I ever considered where the champions on our sports fields began? Do you and I always realize, when we take pride in and rejoice at the achievements of our champions in all types of sport, that these boys and girls acquired their love for sport from a teacher, and that there are teachers who spend hours and days of their free time, without remuneration and often without thanks, to train these people and make them balanced?

Our young people are disciplined, because it has never yet been necessary for us to send police protection to our schools. This is due to the type of behaviour on the part of the teachers which makes it easy for our boys and girls to recognize authority—and I want to say this most definitely. Our young people want to increase their knowledge—one need only think of the many students at our educational institutions for post-school study. Do we ever consider the fact that the student who makes his way to university has been inspired by a teacher? Do we ever consider, and do we emphasize sufficiently, the service which teachers provide in order to place a student on the road to an institution for higher education? Do we ever consider that in many cases, the teacher is the one who gives the boy and girl the vision and ideal of improving their qualifications in the service of their community, country and people? Do we consider that in many cases where funds are not available, the teacher has sent people to university at his own expense to enable them to qualify? Many of these people are a credit to our national life today.

A great deal of fuss has been made about the so-called shortcomings in our Coloured and Bantu education. Do we not appreciate the men and women of the White population group who sacrifice their time and lives in order to guide people of a different population group, too, along the road to knowledge, development, formation and education? We pay tribute to them.

I cannot do better than to conclude with the following words quoted from the letter of a pupil to her former teacher—

I conclude with the words of this girl, knowing that there are many like her. I, and we as the House, want to convey our heartfelt thanks to our teaching corps for perceiving the child and the person, despite all the problems, and for doing their duty in an outstanding way.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Kimberley North, who has just sat down, has analysed the qualities that he looks for and that he admires in a sound youth and he has also given just praise to our teaching corps in this country. Likewise other hon. members in this House have participated in this debate and have made valuable examinations of our South African educational system. It is gratifying to see that this House realizes that education is the best investment for security that we can have. We on this side of the House also welcome this motion because it does afford us the opportunity to make a close examination of our South African educational system.

The motion before us today assumes that our educational system is quite satisfactory. It thanks our teaching corps for its contribution in the formation of a sound youth. We would like to examine if, and to what extent, the motion is valid. We believe that the teaching corps, both White and particularly Black, have persevered despite the most adverse conditions. At the outset we express our appreciation for the efforts they have made and we compliment them for their dedication and their perseverance.

It is not always fully realized how resilient teachers have to be. They are a remarkably resilient breed and they have to be to face the wear and tear of the classroom situation. Tremendous mental and psychological pressures are imposed upon them. They have to be parent, adviser, counsellor, disciplinarian and educator all wrapped up into one human being. They set remarkably high academic standards while they still remain warm, child-centred personalities. Our schools are a credit because they are orderly and controlled, unlike some of the schools overseas, where people can hardly expect teachers to teach. When one reads of gang warfare, rape, assault and murder on school campuses in certain areas of Europe, the United Kingdom and America, we realize that we are largely free from this sort of evil, although there is a rather sad state of affairs that seems to be developing in our Black townships and our Black schools. I think that we must take serious note of this warning.

To summarize, broadly speaking, to us our teaching corps is dedicated and uncomplaining, and they are influential, for the state of discipline and respect that prevails in White schools particularly.

When we turn to our youth, we see that the discrepancies between White and Black pupils are more dramatic. The White youth are happy, secure and successful despite the fact that they are growing up in cultural isolation. They should be, because, after all, look at the facilities that we provide them with from money that is voted by this Parliament. Our facilities in terms of sports fields, swimming pools, gymnasiums, school halls, libraries and subsidized bus transport are comparable to anything that one can find in the world. It would be surprising if truancy and disorderliness was not minimal. I am afraid that the conditions in Black, and especially Bantu education, are quite different. It is my contention that there the very opposite is true and it would appear that Bantu education is on the verge of total collapse, particularly in the Black townships.

Rather keep your speech on the level on which you began it.

Can you not face facts?

The synopsis that I have given is where this motion stops, i.e. with congratulations to the teaching corps for its contribution to the formation of a sound youth. It will, however, be only part of our task here this afternoon if we stop there with the motion. I think that it is important, in discussing the educational field, that we should examine the backdrop against which our teachers teach and against which our youth are schooled. In other words, we must look at the other side of the coin.

The backdrop and the philosophy of our educational system presents a static and unenlightened picture. The core of our educational practice is centred on the philosophy of Christian National Education. Since this manifesto was published in 1948, the Government’s educational planning has been influenced by these doctrines. These are doctrines which we have in the past opposed and which we at present oppose because the pupil and the teacher are moulded into a preconceived pattern of society in which the status of man is pre-ordained largely by race or colour. The Government has over the years remorselessly enforced these doctrines. For example, there was the Bantu Education Act, which transferred the control of Bantu education to the State. A further example is the Extension of University Education Act, which excluded Blacks from White universities and confined them to tribal colleges. Dual and parallel-medium schools have also been disestablished and compulsory mother-tongue education has been introduced into White schools. Parental choice of school and their children’s language medium of instruction has been removed. What are we left with? We are left with a rather suffocating State-controlled education, with the restriction of educational, social and geographical mobility. Above all, however, in an effort to nurture the Government policy of multi-nationalism, instead of the one patriotism we stand for and want created in South Africa, our youth have been fettered within the mental imprisonment of colour discrimination. We have what ambassador Andrew Young called “institutionalized hostility”. One almost fears that we are training a nation of dispassionate racial hermits. One can see that the formulators of the system are like gamekeepers in charge of species which they fear will be endangered by contact. They fear their charges will want to escape into the fresh air of the outside world.

What effect has this overall policy on the teachers’ corps? As a result, I think, teachers are given very little scope to draw on their own mental, moral and imaginative powers. Their training and conditions of employment demand of them certain patterns of conformity. A teacher is tied to a syllabus over which he has little say. The books he can use in a school are prescribed, and no books are allowed on school premises unless they have been approved by the department. The “conscience clauses” in most of the charters of the universities have also been removed. So how does the teacher feel in a situation such as this? What freedom does he have to guide his pupils towards becoming whole personalities and not merely economic, cultural or racial men? Does he feel that he has just become a farmer of facts, that he ploughs the fields of facts into receptive pupils and that if they regurgitate these facts successfully they can be issued with a certificate that opens up economic opportunities to them? Does he feel he is simply an automaton, a robot that distributes roneoed notes? Because one of the criticisms of what is taking place in our classrooms is that there is a reliance on roneoed notes. Does he perhaps look on the private school as the last preserve of exploration in thought and free expression? Does the teacher not realize that “a general state education is a mere contrivance for making people to be exactly like one another”, as John Stuart Mill, a great educational philosopher, has written? There is this rigid conformity, and the problem is that this can lead to dullness and mediocrity. I am sure teachers would not be human if they did not have these shortcomings in mind. In fact, the hon. Minister knows as well as the rest of us in this House who are concerned about the teaching profession, that the teachers’ corps are tired of thanks. The teachers are tired of holding the fort while the only relief they get are thanks and empty promises. I think they have some very justifiable grievances. They are paid about half of what they can earn in the commercial sector, and that is why there is such a drain towards commerce. There is wage discrimination between races and sexes. Housing subsidies are also unequally allocated. They are obliged to carry a large teaching load. Sometimes it is as high as 1:45. Of course, in the Black schools, with their platoon system, it can go as high as 1:60. Teachers are also overburdened with clerical donkey-work. No wonder that numbers are dwindling in the teaching profession and no wonder the profession is not held in very high esteem. Hence the fact that we in the UP have moved an amendment to this motion before us today, expressing our concern with the shortcomings in the South African educational system and calling upon the Government to take the necessary steps to eliminate these shortcomings as a matter of urgency.

I now want to turn to the youth. We have talked about the credits, and I now want to see if there are any debits on that side. I think that one thing that hurts like six of the best is this over-conformity to sectional nationalism. In our view of education, the child must not be encouraged to limit his outlook to ancestor-worship. The child should be encouraged to emulate the best that human endeavour has produced. A system that promotes sectional nationalism cripples the child in that he is led to believe that all that one’s ancestors did was praiseworthy and that their beliefs and customs are beyond criticism. That is a very limited outlook which, I think, can lead to a cultural and compassionate desert.

However, I think that the worst aspect of our compartmentalized system is that sectional and race prejudices are cultivated. Through separation and ignorance of each other’s life style, antagonisms and animosities have arisen between the various groups of people that make up our nation. This is obvious from the attitude of almost racial chauvinism that exists amongst the Whites. They feel that because of the colour of their skin they are superior, or else they feel a sort of paternal liberalism such as Andrew Young ascribed to Helen Suzman. Perhaps “maternal” may have been a better word in that instance. These are not honest, healthy or realistic attitudes. In the rioting of the last six months we have seen the animosity towards Whites amongst Black pupils. As a result of the blinkers our educational system has placed on our youth, there is a grave danger of our remaining static and not providing adequate moral and mental preparation to meet the challenge of the near and immediate future. I refer to the challenge of inter-race collaboration and communication, unaffected by colour prejudice.

I think this can be assisted if we look at our channels of communication. There are more people in this country who do not speak the two official languages than there are those who do. I must appeal to the English-speaking section of the community to come forward and make themselves available for the teaching profession, because one finds at some schools that English is taught as follows: The instruction to be given to a class was: “Kinders moet regop sit met hul borste uit.” The instruction that came through on the English side was: “Childrens must sits straight up with their breasts out.” The fault lies not with the Afrikaans person who is trying to teach the child, but with the English person who is not coming forward. Fortunately, the event I described occurred in a mixed class in the lower grades.

To sum up, we see that the South African teachers’ corps perseveres loyally in the face of unjust difficulties and we thank them for their dedication. South African pupils are lambs growing up within a system that does not adequately prepare them for the future. The South African educational system is the captive of a doctrine with serious shortcomings, particularly in regard to inter-race communication and understanding. As regards Black education, I think that that is in a deplorable mess which requires the dismantling of political barriers and a massive injection of capital.

I should like to make certain recommendations to the hon. the Minister to try to alleviate the shortcomings and to show that we do have a real appreciation for the contribution that our teachers are making. As has been said before, I think there should be an immediate implementation of the new salary scales for teachers. I think there should be a dynamic recruitment drive overseas for English, mathematics and science teachers because we are woefully short of those teachers in this country. I think that teacher-exchange systems for periods of one year should be encouraged to get more enlightened and varied views coming in. Also, I should like to see the hon. the Minister make use of our television service to bring in educational programmes. In such programmes he could use the best talent available in the teachers’ corps to broadcast what they have to say to the nation.

There are also other factors I could mention. For instance, I suggest that teachers’ training courses should include a year’s practical teaching experience. I also recommend the implementation of one month’s refresher courses and special training for people who are going to be promoted because in that respect there is nothing at the moment. Furthermore, I think there should be equal financial subsidies and salaries for all races and sexes. I think, too, that the universities should be open to all races. There should be more parental choice in the selection of schools and in the language medium of instruction for their children. There should be non-interference in private school admissions. In addition, Bantu languages should be included in the choice of subjects available.

Mr. Speaker, I shall not react to the hon. member who has just spoken, except to say that I do not want to be as integrationistic as he was at certain levels of education. The hon. member for Standerton waxed lyrical in his idealism about our youth in his introductory speech. At times he seemed to be deviating from the motion he was introducing, because he talked more about the pupils, the youth, than about the teachers. The hon. member for Durban Central moved an amendment, and we have no fault to find with both the motion and the amendment.

Everyone in this House admits that there are in fact shortcomings in the system of education. I think the hon. Minister himself will agree with that. There is today a shortage of male teachers all along the line, especially in the primary schools. More and more female teachers have to perform duties such as training pupils in sport, etc.

The biggest reason for these shortcomings is, in my opinion, the defamation of the status of the teacher in modem society. In our youth the world was not as materialistic as it is today, and the status of the teacher was equal to that of the lawyer, the magistrate, the minister of religion and the doctor. These people were the leaders of societies and of communities. They had status. Now that status and that of others in the same category have disappeared in the flood of numbers and of materialism. We must re-establish that status if we want to develop that preparedness, the economic preparedness and human preparedness for which the hon. member for Carletonville delivered such a moving plea in this House during the Second Reading debate of the Part Appropriation Bill. Therefore, in expressing our gratitude to the teaching corps for its contribution to the formation of our youth, we should realize that the teaching corps of all the peoples in South Africa is looking to us in this House, to the people in the provincial councils, in the CRC and in the homeland governments to support them and to assist them in regaining the status they deserve. I believe something very important attaches to the status of the teacher. We must re-establish that status in modern society.

†There seems to be little co-ordination between the various education departments in this country. Some of these departments do not even fall under the provisions of the National Education Policy Act. It is my belief that if there were greater co-ordination between the various departments, there would be better understanding between our peoples and there would be less frustration. I totally condemn those who out of pique and alleged frustration bum the very means of education, who boycott their classes and refuse to take advantage of those educational facilities which are available to them, facilities which I may say are far superior to those which were available to White children in the country districts during the 1930s.

That is right.

I do believe, however, that through co-ordination comes co-operation, and from co-operation comes better teaching and better understanding between people.

I have spoken about the status of the teacher and others have spoken about teachers’ salaries. Of course those two subjects are completely inter-related, and I begin to wonder if it is not time for us to consider a system of merit promotion or merit payment for teachers. Perhaps we should have a look at the whole system of teaching appointments, and consider whether the role of the school committee in this respect should not be gradually phased out. I am not against school committees and I am not against their democratic right to have a say in the running of their schools, but school committees have a habit of being impermanent bodies consisting mainly of the parents of children who are at school at the time. During my years as a provincial councillor I saw some school committees make very serious mistakes in the appointment of staff. Once these appointments are made, there is no way of undoing the mistake, even if the school is going downhill, without a great deal of unpleasantness.

Business suspended at 12h45 and resumed at 14h15.

Afternoon Sitting

Mr. Speaker, the other day I read that: “A great man is he who does not lose his child’s heart.” I think that those words do indeed contain a great truth. This debate, a debate which was very pleasant to listen to and which was conducted on a very high level, testifies to the fact that in this highest Council Chamber in the country we occupy ourselves with the higher things, those things which deal with the upbringing and education of our children. That was why I, personally, found it very pleasant to be able to listen to the introducer of the motion, the hon. member for Standerton. That hon. member put me in mind of those wonderful words: “A good speech is in truth like golden apples on a silver platter.” It was indeed a fine speech which the hon. member for Standerton made here today. He referred to the “precious work” which the teacher in South Africa was doing. Mr. Speaker, it is indeed precious work which the teacher in South Africa is doing. It is therefore fit and proper that this House, by way of this motion, should express its gratitude and appreciation to the teaching corps, particularly in view of the present circumstances which do not make it possible for the Government, at this stage, to follow up this discussion with the necessary means, with the necessary money, for it is just not there. Therefore it is so much more fitting that the House does so in this way.

Mr. Speaker, I also want to thank the other two hon. speakers on my side for the excellent manner and the high level on which they presented their arguments. However, I also feel a deep need to convey my thanks and appreciation to hon. members of the Opposition—and by that I mean all the hon. members of the Opposition who participated in the discussion—for having done so on this high level. I am entirely aware that if hon. members of the Opposition had been desirous at this stage of turning this matter into a political issue, they could have done so on a large scale. I appreciate very much indeed the fact that they refrained from doing so. I shall not forget it.

Mr. Speaker, gratitude is the driving force behind the doing of good deeds. I once said that what the sculptor was to the bare rock, the teacher indeed is to the child. Just as the sculptor brings forth a statue of David statue, or of Moses or of an angel out of the bare rock, so the teacher is called upon to bring forth the best there is in the child. Therefore, when we speak of gratitude being the driving force behind good deeds, it also means that the content of this statement in education is the key to good deeds. By way of the motion introduced here today, we want, in truth, to convey our thanks to the teaching corps. Therefore, I want to associate myself to the full with what is contained in this motion.

Having associated myself with the thanks and praise and appreciation expressed here, I regret to say that I will not be able to furnish replies here today to the various important matters which were raised here. These will have to stand over until my Vote comes up for discussion. However, I have made notes and I shall, in the meantime, give the necessary attention to these matters. When my Vote is under discussion, I shall reply in full to each one of them. I hope hon. members understand that this opportunity should actually be used for other purposes.

Mr. Speaker, I am grateful to say that the teacher in South Africa is basically sound, that we have a loyal teaching corps, people who do their work within the framework of a modem teaching system, people who are rendering the children of our nation a service of inestimable value, all the children, regardless of language or other differences. In addition those teachers are rendering a service of inestimable value for the Republic of South Africa and for its future. It is true, so we may as well place it on record again, that education and training deal with the crux of our nation’s survival. I think there can be no doubt at all about that. If it is asked today where the sinewy spirit of the South African comes from, where it had its origin and why it is that the South African population evinces a high degree of physical and spiritual resilience, then the part played by the schools and the teaching profession in this regard has to be recognized with the utmost gratitude, for to the school and teacher it is not merely a matter of conveying knowledge or book learning, but primarily the education of the child into a full-fledged citizen of the country. Are we always aware of what this means? When we reflect on this matter, the following words of Langenhoven acquire a special significance—

Indeed it is true that a civilized person can be recognized, and similarly a civilized nation bears the stamp of civilization because, as Langenhoven put it so well, “sy opvoeding sal horn vergesel tot in die graf”. I want to quote something here which I think is correct, and something which we frequently forget in these times and circumstances. It is this—

This is a truth which is often forgotten and overlooked in these times and in the circumstances of today, by nations as well. May the good Lord grant that we in South Africa, under the circumstances in which we find ourselves, do not forget the need for true education. For that reason it requires no motivation to say that a nation dare not play with the education of its children, for what is at stake here is not merely the survival of the nation, but in truth also the deeper values of civilization, to create people who are worthwhile, and who will be a shining light in the world. There is increasingly a bitter shortage, in the Western world as well, of this type of person. Surely in this sense a clear note can in fact be sounded, a message of hope and confidence, from the southernmost tip of Africa. I can imagine that, in the years to come, it could be felt over the entire world. We shall be able to bear forth this message, thanks to the education of our children and the exceptional measure in which it is appreciated and blessed, as this motion testifies. After all is said and done, I believe that this is our calling; this is the way in which we can show the world that, even if we are a small nation, we have something to contribute and have, and can impart qualities without which the world cannot manage, and would like to retain.

I have said that gratitude is the driving force behind good deeds. To show gratitude to education means, too, that things have to be done. All the speeches bore the stamp of this concept, that we should not merely express gratitude, but should also follow it up by the performance of deeds. From gratitude it follows logically that there has to be appreciation for the service which is being rendered as well as for the people rendering that service. Appreciation, in its turn, leads to an understanding and a willingness to co-operate. Against this background the involvement of the authorities and the general parent community in education has to be assessed today.

Let me tell you at once that in spite of problems which exist in education, it is an acknowledged fact that this country, the Republic of South Africa, has a modern educational system, and that the implementation of the teaching programme is of such a nature that the results—and this has to be said in these times when there are so many defeatists in our country—of our modem educational system compare favourably with those of other Western countries—in fact with countries throughout the entire world. No one is more aware of the problems which still exist in education than I, and I can honestly say that no one is more desirous of solving those problems one by one, jointly with the teaching profession, than I am.

As far as the youth of the Republic of South Africa is concerned, it is indeed true that in comparison with the youth of other Western countries they are spiritually more sound, and in truth afford reason to be grateful and to have confidence in our young people, and it is necessary that this confidence be expressed in this, the highest Council Chamber. This statement is not based on empirical research, for no such research exists by means of which we may compare our children with those of other peoples and countries in the world. But it is based on the observations of numerous South African educationists and teachers, who as far as I can judge are unanimous in their opinion, based on overseas visits, that the vast majority of the young people in our country have a sound, well-balanced and firmly directed philosophy of life. An important scientific investigation in this regard was carried out under the guidance of Prof. Jannie Pieterse by the Department of Sociology at the University of Pretoria for the Nasionale Jeugraad. Mr. Speaker, do you know what conclusions that investigation arrived at? It was in reality a very legitimate and scientific investigation, one of the best youth investigations ever made, not only in South Africa, but also outside South Africa. I should like to mention two conclusions. The first is that the bulk of South African youth has a conservative outlook to all traditional and well-known bodies of authority. And how grateful I am to be able to say this. Secondly, this investigation concluded that more than half of the youth of South Africa declared that they read their Bible every day and had accepted Jesus as their personal Saviour and Redeemer. I should like to know which other nations in the Western World could cause a scientific investigation to be carried out and arrive at such a conclusion in respect of the youth of their nation as the people of South Africa did in respect of its youth, on a scientific basis.

One need only talk to the people returning from Angola and from the borders. The other day someone told me, concerning a young man from the Hillbrow area, a person who was rather on the small side, but as hard as nails, that that young man simply did not know the meaning of fear. Our young people do indeed inspire confidence, and it is necessary for this to be said. I am saying this in particular against the background of what we are experiencing in the world, viz. on the one hand a disparity between authority and freedom and on the other the dechristianization of Western Europe, factors which are undoubtedly the most important factors behind the paralysing spirit of permissiveness and defeatism which have in our time become so characteristic of Western culture. Surely it is time we said in a debate on education such as this that a clear and resounding note is emanating from South Africa and that our youth here is to an exceptional degree demonstrating not only to South Africa but to the entire world something which is splendid and conservative, something which is testified to in this House every day when our proceedings are opened with a prayer and by expressing our trust in the Creator. These are fine things in our national life which deserve mention. Besides the constant attention to the spiritual character formation of our youth, I can also testify that, according to all indications, the intellectual information of our youth is now, with a system of differentiated education, coming into its own to a far greater extent. Indeed it cannot be otherwise, for now, unlike in the past, we are offering our pupils far more fields of study and possibilities of development in accordance with the aptitude and interest of each individual pupil. In addition it appears that the school is strengthening its so-called strength of influence in that a far greater percentage of pupils are today progressing to the highest standards at school. These are things which are happening under our very noses and which we frequently do not see, but those of us who have children at school and at university know of the very high standards which are expected of the children. We know much more than that. We know that our children are reacting in a wonderful way to the tremendous and increasingly high standards by proving themselves to be worthy of those high standards. If we ask why the South African youth, comparatively speaking, is so much stronger spiritually than the youth of other nations in the West, there are besides the Church—the Church in the broadest sense of the word—two institutions in particular which are responsible for this, and which will have to receive our thanks and esteem in this highest Council Chamber. The most important of the two by far is the parental home, of which the influence in any community in the world is so decisive that we may safely maintain that that is what makes or breaks the education of the child. I am not referring only to Afrikaans-speaking families now, but to all families in the Republic of South Africa. If the family is basically sound, the product of that family will also be fundamentally sound. Therefore I want to express on this occasion a word of sincere thanks and appreciation to the parental homes in South Africa which stand on firm foundations, those whom fortune has favoured and which are not broken by divorces, etc., for here one has the salt of the earth quietly performing a deed which speaks out loud and which will still call the world to order, if we can continue to maintain the parental home in this way.

Secondly, the work done by the teacher in this regard is important. An encouraging phenomenon is that the teachers of South Africa distinguish themselves in one respect in particular, which is that they are supported and inspired in their profession by idealism. We thank them for this. The explanation for this fact is that the teachers in South Africa, unlike those in other countries in Europe and in the West, refuse to allow the teaching profession to degenerate into a trade union. I have great appreciation for this. I negotiated with them for a year over salaries and I am eternally grateful that it was not necessary for me to negotiate with a trade union. I negotiated with highly professional people, people who refused to become a trade union. They want to retain that idealism in the profession, and nourish and strengthen it in all kinds of ways.

†This obviously goes not only for the Afrikaner, but it goes equally for the English-speaking people, and the other population groups in the Republic of South Africa and one is ever so grateful for that fact.

*I also want to mention the excellent work which is being done by the respective teachers’ associations, specifically the Federal Council of Teachers’ Associations, in this regard. I am proud to be able to say that these people are my friends, and that I am their friend. The good influence and inspiration which has emanated from this organization, is immeasurable.

†An English-speaking person is the president of this body today. If one wants to know whether it is well with our people in the Republic of South Africa, I can refer you to this professional body where English-speaking and Afrikaner are co-operating and working together in a fashion which is simply beautiful to behold. If one knows the ins and outs of that, then you know that the people of the Republic of South Africa have indeed a beautiful and fine future. Obviously we shall have our problems, but problems are there to be overcome.

*It has always been the policy of the educational authorities to consult the organized teaching profession throughout and to involve it as closely as possible in all matters affecting education. A great achievement of our teachers is that they are largely responsible for the establishment of organizations such as the parent-teachers’ associations.

†Again we have the situation that what goes for the Afrikaner in this respect, goes for the English-speaking people as well. I am very happy to be able to mention that fact.

*I am delighted every time I hear of strong and healthy organizations of this nature, for it testifies to the commendable spirit of co-operation which is abroad in our country and which is so indispensable for such an enormously important task as the education of our children.

†If anybody doubts whether the education of the English-speaking person, parents or children, in South Africa is of equal and even more importance to the English-speaking person than to the Afrikaner, I can testify that it is absolutely a fact. If anybody should want to know whether there is real unity, to be seen and experienced, in South Africa, that unity can today be found in the field of education.

*That is why it is not mere coincidence that this entire House, all the political parties, have participated in this debate in this way, for by so doing this important matter is kept out of the political arena, in a way in which we have again had an example today.

Dynamic development in all spheres of life in the Republic of South Africa must of course lead to changing demands, to new development and greater specialization, and education must of course adapt itself continuously to these things.

†May I emphasize with the greatest emphasis that I am able to muster that the question that is of fundamental importance today in the Republic of South Africa is obviously the question of the maintenance of good human relations between the different population groups, between the Whites and the non-Whites. Can anybody deny that, obviously, education plays a fundamental and decisive role in this respect?

*That is why I want to ask on this occasion that particular attention be given in education to the question of the development of sound relations among the population groups in South Africa. Here education can play its part. Consequently I can tell hon. members today that education is coming into its own in a very splendid way. From this specific problems inevitably flow but there has never been any hesitation to face up to the problems and seek solutions to them. After all, developments in the field of education during the past few years confirm this. During 1976 a new dispensation for education was approved in principle, and it shall be implemented. No one need have any doubt that this new dispensation, which has been approved in principle by the Government, will in fact be implemented. The teachers need not doubt it. Because of the nature of the economic circumstances, however, it will have to be implemented gradually. The teaching profession is being accorded greater professional recognition, statutory recognition and protection of the status of the teacher. It is a greater pleasure for me to announce on this occasion that, if everything goes according to plan, the S.A. Teachers’ Council will constitute itself in Pretoria on 25 March 1977. This is something to which the teaching profession has been looking forward for many years and it is a wish which will be fulfilled when this body is constituted. It will of course, in respect of the other population groups, immediately lead to further developments in respect of those groups as well, as I said at the time in the debate when this Bill was being dealt with. In the meantime untiring efforts are being made to work out the finer details of the new dispensation—those aspects which can be implemented immediately—step by step, and at the same time the possibilities of the implementation of certain aspects which will not entail immediate financial expenditure are being examined.

If there is one thing I regret very much indeed—it is the worst thing that has happened to me in my whole life—it is that as a result of the economic circumstances of the country, which no one could do anything about, it has not as yet been possible, because the money for it was simply not available, to implement the recommendations for a new salary structure for teachers. Mercifully our teachers understand this, but we hope to make the new dispensation public as soon as possible. I had hoped to do so this afternoon. In fact work was done at a tremendous pace to make it possible for it to be announced here this afternoon, but we were unable to do so. Why not? Because I am not prepared to skimp as far as education is concerned. When the details of this new dispensation are announced, it will be done properly, so that the teachers may know that this matter has not been tackled lightly, but that it represents exhaustive work on the part of the Public Service Commission and on the part of the Committee of Educational Heads, which has lasted for more than a year. Since January last year the Committee of Educational Heads, and the work committees appointed by them, have done an enormous amount of work and quite a number of recommendations are ready for submission to the Cabinet Committee which has to deal with this matter. As soon as approval has been obtained, a full announcement in regard to the matter will be made. I am therefore asking the teachers not to press us, for it is in their interests that we dispose of this matter properly, and that we do so in such a way that when the announcement is made, it will be apparent that the work was not done in a slipshod manner. The part played by the authorities, which also testifies to co-operation on a partnership basis with the organized teaching profession, reflect therefore the driving force for the doing of good deeds in the interests of education in the Republic of South Africa. Who will be able to determine the value of the qualities of a good teacher? What Government will be able to pay a good teacher what he is worth? I am also referring this hon. House to the co-ordinated improved conditions of service for teachers which have been decided upon.

In order to combat the creeping evil of red tape in our schools, which we have already discussed extensively and which has already caused considerable trouble in education, it has already been decided to make more administrative assistance available to school principals. I am straining at the leash, no one is more eager than I, to make the details of the new dispensation in education public, for there are fine things for our teachers in the new dispensation to which the finishing touches are now being put. Stumbling blocks in the way of a new dispensation, with a view to teacher training, have largely been eliminated with the agreement and co-operation already achieved between the universities on the one hand and the colleges for advanced technical education, the teacher training colleges and other existing colleges on the other. For example agreements have already been reached between the provincial authorities and Unisa and Wits. Those agreements have already been finalized. Agreements with the University of Potchefstroom and RAU are already in a very advanced stage, and will be finalized soon. Discussions with the University of Pretoria will also take place soon. In the Cape excellent progress has already been made with these agreements.

The request of the hon. member for Standerton to consider the entire matter of teacher training across provincial boundaries was an entirely justified request, and I can give him the assurance that it will receive urgent attention as quickly as possible. The plan to expand colleges for advanced technical education into full-fledged tertiary institutions alongside the universities is making very good progress. I can give hon. members that assurance. On 28 February all the principals in question are coming to see me in Cape Town to be able to give further implementation to the plan of according these colleges the necessary status alongside our universities in South Africa.

The responsibility of the parent community in regard to our education and the teacher is of course very important. The status of the teacher, which should not be that of inflated importance, but should in fact be a reflection of the gratitude and appreciation and high esteem which the teacher and education should enjoy, must after all begin with the parent community. I therefore want to avail myself of this opportunity to make an appeal to them, in these times of a new dispensation which will come as certainly as the sun will rise tomorrow and with the prospect of improved circumstances for the teacher, to make their sons and daughters available once again to education so that we will be able to achieve our high ideals in a magnificent way in South Africa.

Business interrupted in accordance with Standing Order No. 34 and motion and amendment lapsed.

Mr. Speaker, I move—

My approach this afternoon will be an appraisal of the effectiveness or otherwise of the present Government’s approach to the fundamental human need for a home, for the opportunity to establish and preserve family life and for adequate social and communal facilities. I think that the urgency for such an appraisal has been emphasized by the rapid growth of the urban communities in what has become known as squatter camps and unfortunately by actions so graphically exposed by the photographs and reports that appeared in the Press this morning.

What did you see?

The Government apparently still believes that a prerequisite for solving housing problems and the problems of these people is a matter of force. In May last year I warned in the House that the Prevention of Illegal Squatting Bill contained harsh provisions. Last week I warned in the House that in the implementation of that Act the bulldozer would be used. The hon. member for Carletonville, who is unfortunately not here, said it would be a lie for anyone to suggest that any such action would be taken.

Hear, hear!

The hon. the Minister of Community Development—will he just keep quiet—took strong exception to what I said. He described it as a shocking statement. He assured the House that no such action would be taken and that, on the contrary, he could only regard any such action as too excrutiating to contemplate. However, what did we see this morning? I have Die Burger before me.

What do you see there?

I have before me Die Burger and the hon. Chief Whip opposite asks me: “What do you see there?” I shall explain to him what I see there.

It is not a bulldozer.

I shall explain to him. [Interjections.]

Order!

The hon. Chief Whip must be patient. According to the caption, the machine shown in Die Burger is “ ’n laaigraaf van die Stellenbosse afdelingsraad”. [Interjections.] The caption reads—

Sir, what is a “laaigraaf”? This instrument, which according to the Chief Whip is not a bulldozer, is an International Hough machine. It is a 100 h.p. four-wheel drive machine. It can be fitted with either the bucket or a blade in front of it. In the picture it is fitted with a 2 cubic yard bucket-scoop and it has a 9 000 kg operating weight. Will the hon. member still tell me it is not a bulldozer?

It is still not a bulldozer. [Interjections.]

Sir, I want to be serious with the hon. the Minister. His discomfort is understandable. I want to say in all sincerity that I have known the hon. the Minister for a long time and I have no hesitation in accepting that he was sincere and his true self when he said in an earlier debate that any such action would be to him “too excruciating to contemplate”. However, that action has now been taken.

By whom?

By an agent of the Department of Community Development acting in terms of the Act that was passed by the Government last year. Sir, such machines, apparently, are bulldozers if they have blades and earth-moving equipment if they have a two cubic yard bucket in front of them.

The effect is exactly the same.

One would swear the people were still inside the squatters’ hut.

Whether the action was taken by the Government, a local authority or an individual is immaterial.

It is immaterial, I agree.

It is action, as the hon. the Minister agrees, taken in terms of the law which was passed last year by the Government. As I have said, I accept the hon. the Minister’s sincerity when he said, when last the subject was discussed in the House, what his reaction would be to something of this nature. By his action of joining the Government, he is now a party to the attitude of the Government in regard to that legislation and the implementation of it. He has identified himself with that legislation. I have known the hon. the Minister for a long time and I now want to tell him that he should disassociate himself from what has been done, not only by words, but by personal action and example. He should disassociate himself from the effect of the legislation which was introduced in 1976. The only way in which the hon. the Minister, in order to satisfy his own high standards, can do this, is that he should apologize to this House and resign from his portfolio as Minister. [Interjections.] I want to say further to the hon. the Minister, who regards this as being a frivolous matter, that he can still join forces with those of us in this House who are prepared to sacrifice our positions and our party so that the thousands upon thousands of South Africans who wish to see a new South Africa can be moulded together into an alternative Government for this country. That is still open to the hon. the Minister, if he is true to what he has said over the years and to what he said a week ago. He can then contribute his talents towards the achievement of a peaceful and prosperous South Africa, in which bulldozers or earth-moving equipment are not used in this way, in which co-operation can replace confrontation and in which there can be peaceful co-existence for all the people of this country of all racial groups. South Africa will take note of his decision on this matter.

South Africa will take note of the utter nonsense you are talking!

It will take notice of his reaction to this action which is “too excruciating to contemplate”.

The provision of housing in all its aspects is a continuing and difficult problem. The basic requirements of the individual and of the family might be said to be the need for the privacy of a home with adequate basic amenities, water and sanitation, privacy within the home between adult and child, living and eating quarters, and community amenities. These are basic requirements which I believe are common to all of the human race. The standards desired and the standards necessary vary according to the social habits and according to the financial capacity of individuals, I believe, therefore, that it is proper that the population in general should be categorized to determine the need for Government action, and where necessary, Government assistance. I think this can be conveniently done by using the following categories: There are, firstly, the economically self-sufficient, who are capable of supplying the finance necessary for their own home needs. The second group would be the economically self-sufficient, who require assistance through mortgage finance to achieve home ownership. The third group would be the middle-income group, which requires partial assistance by way of subsidized bond interest to achieve home ownership. The fourth, the sub-economic group, require homes at subsidized rental rates for conventional housing. There is a fifth group, namely those who cannot afford conventional housing other than at a nominal rental. I woüld add a sixth group, namely those for whom no housing is available. These categories exist and obviously are present in varying degrees in all communities, White, Black and Brown. In the time at my disposal it is impossible to deal with all these categories in detail. I shall therefore mention only pertinent aspects which I believe need investigation. Mr. Speaker, I am aware of the fact that in so far as Whites, Coloureds and Indians are concerned, the whole question of housing is under investigation by a departmental committee of the Department of Community Development, under the chairmanship of the secretary, Mr. Fouché. We had previous commissions, including the Niemand Commission, but there seems to be no co-ordinated or effective method of dealing with the specific problems of all the categories to which I have referred. Over the years we on this side of the House have pleaded—I myself have done so repeatedly—for the first steps to be taken towards effective co-ordination, and I want to repeat it again today. I believe that that first step is the establishment of a separate department of housing, under one Minister, for all housing of Whites, Browns and Black people in this country. [Interjections.]

Mr. Speaker, as an example of the conflict which exists at the present moment, conflict in responsibility, I want to point out that this has been clearly exposed by the situation which exists now in Modderdam Road. There we have the ground being controlled by the hon. the Minister of Public Works and we have the rehousing of those Coloured people, the resettlement of those squatters, as a responsibility of the hon. the Minister of Community Development while the responsibility for the rehousing and resettlement of Blacks is the responsibility of the hon. the Minister of Bantu Administration and Development. Finally, Mr. Speaker, we have the determination and proclamation of residential areas and general planning being the responsibility of the hon. Minister of Planning and of the Environment. Thus we have four Ministers involved in a matter which, I believe, should be under one roof, under one head and under one control, and that should be a Ministry of Housing. I believe that the present state of affairs should not be allowed to continue.

Let me say at once, as I said in May last year and have repeatedly acknowledged, that the Department of Community Development, with the assistance of local authorities and with the funds that have been available, has done a very good job to provide for and to try to meet the demands for Coloured housing. Funds, however, are not available to the extent required and the potential demand of the future has only been reduced marginally.

I do not wish to burden the House with statistics, but we must, however, realize that we cannot solve the problems, nor meet the demand today, by methods which were possible in the past, in the happy financial climate brought about by the high gold price.

Some relevant statistics, however, need to be considered. In the 10 years from 1963 to 1973, the State advanced some R650 million for housing for White and Brown people. A great deal of the housing which became available was absorbed by rehousing those who had to be resettled under the Group Areas Act—1 789 White families, 76 897 Coloured families, 39 584 Indian families and 1 234 Chinese families. There still remains though, according to a reply given a year ago as to the waiting lists for housing—according to Hansard of 4 March 1976—an official “waiting list” of 6 700 White homes, 57 800 Coloured homes and 19 700 Indian homes for family units.

Mr. Speaker, Cape Town municipality alone, according to the chairlady of its housing committee, requires some R130 million to meet the existing demands for housing of the Coloured people in Greater Cape Town. Those funds are just not available. I have said that time will not permit me to deal with all categories in detail, but these are relevant facts.

As far as the self-sufficient are concerned, we had the Niemand Commission in regard to the non-utilization of plots, and the latest figures I can find, show that in Greater Cape Town there are 55 000 residential plots which have not been developed. Along the coast, from False Bay to the Kei Mouth, the recent estimate that I have seen is that there are 38 000 residential plots along the coastline still not developed.

As far as the cost of construction is concerned, in regard to the self-sufficient groups, Mr. Amé de Wet of Trust Building Society gave some interesting details last month. In 1963, in South Africa, it required five investors in building societies to finance one average home loan. The position today is 8,2 investors to finance one average home loan. If one looks at the position as to how it has varied in other parts of the world, according to Mr. De Wet in the USA, instead of having the increase of 3,2 that we have had in South Africa over that decade, there has been a reduction of 1 in the relationship of investor to moneys provided for homes in the USA. When one turns to the requirements, the ever-increasing demand which we must anticipate, I want to refer to what the State President said last year. He said—

His warning was substantiated by recently released projections which, I think, all hon. members received and which were graphically illustrated. It was anticipated that in the 30 years from 1970 to the year 2000 Whites in South Africa would increase by 3 million, the Coloureds by 2,8 million and the Blacks by 22 million. This problem of the population growth was also referred to by the late Mr. Blaar Coetzee, then Minister of Community Development, when he said in 1972—

This problem of urbanization is universal. It was considered, both as to its cause and its cure, at an international conference in London in June 1973. The report is a long and very interesting one. I have made a copy of it available to the hon. the Minister. I received the report from somebody who happened to know that I am interested in the problem. As I have said, the report is a very interesting one and makes interesting reading. I commend it to hon. members.

There must be an urgent or emergency programme to cope with the factual situation as it exists today. In broad outline I have given some details as to the need for housing and the probable need arising from the population growth. There are an unknown number of squatters in South Africa. The figure for Greater Cape Town alone is estimated at 200 000. I have also seen an estimate of 350 000 Blacks in the environ of Durban. The Government’s resources today are totally insufficient, and are likely to be for some time, to meet the need for the housing of these people.

Against these statistics there are factors which are contributing to the squatter problem and which cannot be irgnored. I have already referred to the high growth rate of the local population. There is the influx of Coloureds and Africans from the adjoining rural areas, as well as from distant parts of the country, into the metropolitan areas. There is a lack of or a cut-back of funds from the Government which are available to provide housing, whether at the places of origin of these people or here where they are to be found in the cities and the towns of South Africa. Low incomes in relation to rentals and redemption payments is another problem. We also have, as I have mentioned, the escalation of building costs and, resulting therefrom, rapidly increasing rentals and costs of housing. In addition there are the high transport costs, as a result of which employees want to minimize the distance between work and living-place.

I believe that it is imperative that the Government should rethink and introduce new approaches. I want to make brief recommendations in regard to these matters for the consideration of the Government. Firstly, I believe that there must be an immediate speeding up in the demarcation of residential areas for the various population groups, not only in and about the large cities, but also in and about rural towns where housing and housing developments can be contemplated.

Secondly, Sir, the hon. the Minister, when I discussed the question of core-type housing last year, rejected the idea. He referred to them as “dop-huise”. He now has a different idea, and although he calls them by another name it is still the same principle. I am very happy to see that he has come around to the way of thinking that these must be introduced with regard to these particular areas. In 1974 the hon. member for Vasco spoke very eloquently about this type of housing in the House, and I am very grateful to him for the support he gave me on the motion at that time dealing with the question of housing. We must look at these things as a matter of urgent necessity. The second point I want to make with regard to the demarcation of these areas, for what I may call emergency and urgent housing, is the introduction of the principle of self-help. Over the years there has emerged in South Africa an almost immovable reliance on the Government, on the authorities at some or other level, to provide for all the needs of the human race in this country. In the course of time people have been discouraged from exercising some of their own initiative to provide for themselves. I do not need to elaborate on the principle of self-help; it has been applied and is still being applied successfully. What it means is the provision of materials basic to the establishment of a home. Somebody reminded me the other day that wood and iron houses have been sufficient for great South Africans in the past as their homes, and should therefore not always be regarded as unsuitable now that we use bricks and mortar for everything which we want to construct. In addition to basic materials there is the provision of the basic community needs for water, sanitation and health clinics.

The second matter I want to refer the hon. the Minister to is the necessary revision and simplification of building regulations. I believe he is at the moment giving attention to the question of standard building regulations. I want to appeal to the hon. the Minister not to standardize to the extent as to make it impossible to deal with a cheap type of housing as opposed to the more luxurious type. I have not studied the regulations, but I have read in the newspapers of some anxiety in certain quarters as to what is going to be contained in those regulations. I believe it is essential that they should provide for different classes of housing.

As my third point I believe that the time has now come for the full utilization of the building industry for this type of inexpensive housing. The problems one has had, as the hon. the Minister of Public Works has experienced over the years, was to regulate or somehow even out as one could the peaks and troughs of demand to the building industry over the years. It is an on-going problem. It would be doing a great service to the building industry and to those in need of homes, and at the same time alleviate the problem of unemployment, if one were to allow a wider discretion in the type of home that is being built and which the farming, commercial and industrial spheres of our country are prepared to undertake.

The fourth point I want to mention to the hon. the Minister is the full encouragement of White utility non-profit housing companies to build for non-Whites. Unfortunately the hon. the Minister says: “Hear, hear!” The Government to which he now belongs has unfortunately cut their water off for a long time and would not allow them to do it. It has now been changed, but there are certain conditions which are being applied which I think are unnecessary. They impede the expansion of this work. Any problems which there are, should be eliminated as far as the utility companies are concerned.

I want to come to another matter, one which I think has to be considered if we are going to have adequate housing, and that is the consideration of tax concessions to the private sector, first of all to that portion of the private sector which is providing accommodation for letting. I cannot see any other way in which one is going to prevent the continuation of the rental spiral which is hitting the pensioner to such a large extent at the present moment.

There should also be adequate tax concessions so far as commerce and industry are concerned where they are providing homes for their own employees.

I then come to item No. 7 and I must say the fact that it has not yet been implemented, is not entirely the fault of the Government. I refer to the implementation of the Government’s scheme for the prevention of physical decay in towns and cities. This matter has been mentioned on various occasions in the House, but what I have in mind, is the decay which takes place in so far as houses are concerned, to such an extent that it becomes necessary to demolish these homes. I am aware of the fact that the Department of Community Development, in 1971, over the signature of Mr.‘ Fouché, issued a … Mr. Speaker, it seems to us if the hon. the Minister of Community Development is more interested in the red rose in his lapel than in the housing of the people of South Africa. [Interjections.] The hon. Minister of Economic Affairs can make fun but he can make no contribution in solving this problem. I am dealing with a matter which is the responsibility of the hon. the Minister of Community Development and his department. I welcomed the fact that his predecessor, in 1971, made some endeavour to deal with the prevention of physical decay of houses in the cities. A circular was sent to all local authorities. It was sent out in 1971, and I believe that it was sent out again recently to local authorities at my request. This matter, however, has to be pushed and has to be brought to action, because as far as I am aware, there is not one local authority in South Africa that has availed itself of this method of preservation or the offer to preserve buildings so as to prevent their decay and the need for ultimate demolition.

The question that now arises is in regard to the housing of Blacks and I am glad to see that the hon. Deputy Minister of Bantu Affairs is in the House this afternoon. I have read with great interest the interviews he has given in regard to the question of Black housing. I believe, Sir, he probably will be a very good Minister of Housing … The Deputy Minister of Bantu Affairs pointed out in January of this year during an interview with To the Point that no Government can provide the funds for housing requirements of everybody, and I agree with him. That is why I suggest that commerce and industry, where they are prepared to assist, should be relieved of the maximum amount of red tape and compliance with unnecessary buildings specification and be assisted with adequate tax concessions when they undertake that work.

I think I cannot conclude better than quoting the following from the hon. the Deputy Minister’s interview—

I ask the hon. Deputy Minister to see that the Government acts in order to implement these sentiments.

Mr. Speaker, I have listened to many motions in this House and must honestly admit that this is probably one of the most half-baked motions which has ever been introduced here, half-baked in that it contains so many contradictions. The hon. member for Green Point asks for an immediate emergency housing programme to be launched by the Government. At the same time he asks for ways and means of stimulating self-help and private enterprise to be found. In addition the hon. member says that the financial responsibility of the State is to be limited, and now I ask, with tears in my eyes, how is one going to reconcile the irreconcilable? I think the confusion prevailing in that party, is reflected in the motion as moved by the hon. member for Green Point, because one cannot make head or tail of it. For that reason I should like to move the following amendment—

It is rather strange to note that the same hon. member had nothing but praise and gratitude for the Government last year for what it was doing with regard to accommodation for Whites and Coloureds. And now he comes forward with a motion like this!

One wonders why the motion has been introduced. I can see one motive only for this and that is to try and make political capital out of the difficult economic position in which South Africa finds itself at the moment. I cannot see any other motive for it, because every aspect mentioned in this motion, is already receiving the attention of the Government.

The hon. member speaks of the urbanization of the rural population. This is something which the Government foresaw a long time ago. In 1967 we placed the Physical Planning and Utilization of Resources Act on the Statute Book for the very purpose of creating growth points and counteracting urbanization in that way. What was the attitude of the Opposition? They fought it tooth and nail.

The hon. member asks for an emergency housing programme. Unfortunately he did not mention in his motion to which population group he was referring, but I want to confine myself to the Whites only, while other speakers will deal with other population groups. I think, as far as the White population group in general is concerned, that it is a group which is well accommodated. Thanks to this Government, there is an estimated shortage of approximately 6 100 dwelling units for Whites at the moment. We shall probably never reach the stage when houses will be unoccupied and we wait for someone to move in.

For the sake of the record I should like to mention a few of the achievements of this Government in respect of housing for the Whites. Over the past 15 years 63 547 dwelling units were constructed through the Housing Commission, while in the past five years alone, 26 185 dwelling units were provided. This shows not only that the Government has eliminated the backlog which existed in respect of housing, but also that it has taken the population growth into account.

The hon. member asked for the introduction of ways and means of stimulating self-help and private enterprise in an endeavour to limit the State’s financial responsibilities. The hon. member for Durban Point said they were prepared to co-operate with the devil too. I do not know whether they have found the devil, but the devil alone knows how one is going to succeed in coming up with an emergency housing programme while limiting the State’s financial responsibilities at the same time. The hon. member for Durban Point will probably be able to tell us how the deuce one is going to manage this.

The hon. member’s ignorance really surprises me, because he ought to know that methods were introduced a long time ago to stimulate self-help and the private sector in the matter of providing dwelling units. May I point out a few examples to hon. members? Firstly there is the home ownership saving scheme. Up to the end of 1976 there were 1 251 people who had made use of the scheme. I want to admit that this number is somewhat disappointing, but where can one find a better investment than 9% interest tax-free? In addition one is subsidized to the extent of 2%, which, in actual fact, gives one an investment at a rate of interest of 11% tax-free. I want to ask the hon. member what about that 2% subsidy scheme for private persons who can obtain a loan for R15 000 if the valuation of a house does not exceed R20 000.

From 1970 up to 31 January 1977, such State subsidies amounted to as much as R35 million. There were approximately 70 000 participants in this scheme. In the third place there are the housing subsidies for public servants and provincial officials, and in this way, thousands of provincial and public servants have been helped to housing through the agency and with the assistance of the Government. In addition there are the old-age homes provided by the Government. The Department of Community Development has never refused a single application for a loan to erect an old-age home. It is said that the private sector must be stimulated. Firms in the private sector which are prepared to erect homes for their employees, are accommodated in that the money which they spend on housing for their employees is deductible for income tax purposes. In this way those firms save 49%, which is the present rate. The hon. member knows that there is also the Commission of Inquiry into Housing Matters to inquire into, inter alia, the prevailing high costs of housing, and, if necessary, to take measures to enforce more modest standards of housing.

Let us take a further look at the private sector which has to be stimulated. Although there is a decrease in the provision of housing by the private sector, it has always been the private sector that has assisted most Whites to obtain housing without Government aid. The private sector was responsible for 80% of the 34 700 dwelling units erected since last year. Of course, the argument is always advanced that there is no money, but this does not hold any longer. I should like to quote what was said by Mr. Hefer, the managing director of the United Building Society in last Sunday’s Rapport—

The article states, inter alia—

So what is the problem? I think one of the biggest problems is that our people want to build too luxuriously. I think the time has arrived when our people simply have to realize that they will have to forgo loans for luxury houses and fall in with the limitations imposed by the State, and here I am referring to loans at building societies being limited to R18 000. If the Department of Community Development can build a neat three- or four-bedroomed house for R10 000 or R12 000, I do not see why the private sector cannot do so.

I also want to refer to our township developers who are just interested in prestige residential areas. I think the fact that they did not make provision for a piece of land for the ordinary man, too, was also instrumental to some extent in the downfall of many.

Mr. Speaker, it was really a revelation to me, a Wassenaar-type revelation, in fact, to hear how the hon. member for Boksburg attempted to oppose the excellent motion of the hon. member for Green Point. In fact, he is so verkramp in his opposition to free enterprise that he cannot understand that the Government, too, can encourage free enterprise to do more in respect of housing. When we ask the Government to do something about housing, he apparently thinks that we mean that only the Government should erect houses. He does not realize that it is the Government’s task to encourage the spirit of free enterprise, the acumen of the individual, to strive ever forward. As the President of France put it: The muscles of the people are the spirit of free enterprise, the acumen of the individual, and the business of the State is to act as the brain which is to keep those muscles in sound order so that they can work together.

Instead of listening to me, you were thinking about Haas Das.

At the same time, I want to congratulate the hon. member for Boksburg on a speech which was not actually a political speech. In general, I found it a pleasant speech. I even agree with him that the White housing situation is fairly well under control at the moment. For that reason, I am not going to devote any more time to the White housing position. I agree with the hon. member that that housing position is fairly sound at the moment.

We in South Africa are at present faced with a very great problem. I believe that we in this House ought to come to a decision on the housing problem. This is not a problem for which only the Government can be blamed. I welcome the fact that we now have an opportunity to conduct a debate on housing. There are few opportunities for that in this House. Normally, the question of housing for Indians, Coloureds and Whites must be separated from that of Blacks, because if we discuss Black housing, when we are actually concerned with a matter which falls under the jurisdiction of the Minister of Community Development, the discussion is normally ruled out of order. On this occasion, however, we can approach the question of housing in a sound and correct manner.

As I see it, two great problems emerge from the proposal of the hon. member for Green Point. Firstly, there is the population explosion. I am pleased to see that my friend and erudite adviser on the question of population explosion, is also present in the House. I am referring to the hon. member for Carletonville. Both he and I are concerned about the population explosion.

We are also fully aware that the whole question of the population explosion actually goes round in circles. There is economic upliftment, there is a sound community life, there is good housing, there is good remuneration and there are good medical services and all these things go together. Where these conditions exist, one finds that population growth is controlled and regulated. The second problem is the urbanization of our people. In Natal, and this afternoon I want to concentrate particularly on the Blacks in Natal, there is a population explosion among the Zulu-speaking people, a population explosion which will lead to the doubling of the Zulu population of Natal within 16 years. A tremendous amount of urbanization is going to take place as well. As I see it, we are going to have very great problems in Natal. In fact, we already have many problems there. Over and above the population explosion and the urbanization, there is yet another problem in the area of housing, and it is the NP’s ideology which makes the problem of housing an even far greater one. Fortunately, this problem does not arise in Natal because the cities and towns in Natal are all surrounded by parts of the KwaZulu homeland. There are actually only White sports in the Black areas. Consequently, there is no ideological problem connected to housing. The housing of the Blacks in Natal, and in the Greater Durban area in particular, is merely a housing problem. There are not all sorts of problems in respect of commuters, the construction of houses in Witsieshoek for example, so that people can drive to the Driehoek and other such nonsense. Although the problem in Natal is simply one of housing, it is nevertheless a major problem. Unlike elsewhere in Africa, we have two great advantages here in South Africa. The rest of Africa, too, experiences the same problem with housing. We know that there is hardly a large city in the Third World which does not have to contend with this problem. South Africa, however, has a strong economy and can therefore afford housing for its people. In the second place, we have the necessary experience here and the South African Department of Community Development is one of the leading bodies in the world as far as the provision of cheap housing is concerned. We certainly have the experience here and together with this we have the skill at our disposal. Our people—Black, Brown and White—have at their disposal the necessary skill to provide housing.

Mr. Speaker, at this stage, I should like to quote from The Natal Mercury. At the same time, I want to express my appreciation towards The Natal Mercury for the manner in which it is bringing the problems in regard to housing to the attention of the people in Natal. I quote—

Mr. Speaker, Mr. Tony Johns is someone who may speak with authority, because he is an ex-under-secretary of the Department of Bantu Administration and Development who was entrusted with the portfolio of housing. Consequently, he knows what he is talking about. Mr. Speaker, it is perhaps an awful thing to say about the Government, but when I heard that one of my officials had said “The housing shortage has reached a crisis stage”, I believed that something would happen. It is my contention that the Department of Bantu Administration and Development is a department of crises. It is a department which moves from one crisis to another. However, I believe that now that a crisis has eventually arisen, something will possibly happen. Mr. Speaker, I just want to illustrate further why I contend that we have reached a crisis situation in the Department of Bantu Administration and Development. The hon. the Deputy Minister of Bantu Affairs thought it good to visit Durban and surrounding areas recently. He visited my constituency and the adjacent area. We spent a very interesting day together. He impressed everyone there with his interest and his knowledge. Since that visit, however, I have not heard a peep from him. He was apparently so shocked by the crisis which he discovered there, that he has apparently not yet recovered from it.

Mr. Speaker, I should also like to draw your attention to the kind of situation which arises. I have here in my file a wad of letters. Here is, inter alia, one from a man, someone with a good position. He has been working for eight years now for a concern which manufactures tyres for automobiles. He is an inspector. He is married and his wife works in a ladies’ boutique. They are good and progressive Black people, people who are trying to get on in life. The man has written to me and said that he should like to obtain a house. He is a squatter, if one may put it that way. He lives in a suite of hired rooms, because he is unable to obtain housing anywhere else. He wrote to me as follows—

†Mr. Speaker, that is a section of KwaMashu, which is under the Zulu Government, like Umlazi.

Mr. Speaker, this man is someone who tried very hard to get a house.

*Of course, I must concede that the people of the Department of Bantu Administration and Development, as well as the staff of the Bantu Administration Board in Umlazi, were very accommodating. They took a little time in answering my letter but they were nevertheless very accommodating. However, what is important, Mr. Speaker, is that this man’s oldest child is now eight years old. The family, father, mother and four children, are living in two rooms. The man is a good citizen, a decent person, a man who has been in the employ of the same concern for nine years. However, he now wants a place of his own, where he can have his own little piece of ground to cultivate. He is the kind of man who forms a bastion against any revolution in our country. He is a conservative person. His father already has a house in Umlazi, but he will apparently have to wait another three or four years before he himself will be able to obtain a house. By then his children will be teenagers.

Is it fair and right that people like these should have to wait so long for a house? Surely they are precisely the kind of people whom we should like to have in our community, people who are good material for the building up of a decent middle class?

Mr. Speaker, I believe there are two problems contributing to the present question of housing. One of these is a familiar problem, a problem which we are acquainted with. This is that the Government has to build houses, lay out roads, create community facilities, and so on. This is a good thing, of course. Our problem there is cost. Where are we to obtain the money? I agree with the hon. the Deputy Minister of Bantu Affairs when he says that the State neither can nor ought to obtain all the money for the construction of such houses. Nevertheless, I believe that a lot can be done towards solving this problem.

Yesterday, the hon. member for Constantia suggested that the Government should create more opportunities for investors in tax-free bonds, for people who want to invest money in building societies. I agree with that. I believe that more use should be made of the services of building societies and I therefore want to ask the hon. the Deputy Minister to tell us what is preventing him from amending the Act so that building societies may be permitted to obtain the title deeds of Black people’s land. I know there is a problem. I have discussed the matter with the officials of the hon. the Deputy Minister. They were very accommodating, but the situation persists in which a building society is unable to lend money to a Black man. It is as a consequence of this fact that building societies are prevented by the Act from obtaining the title deed of such land. I want to know from the hon. the Deputy Minister whether he intends amending the Act and if so, when. After all, White building societies lend money to Coloureds and Indians and receive the title deeds when those buyers cannot keep up their payments. I want to know why the same cannot be done for the Black man.

I believe that the right of free enterprise must be honoured. I know that the BIC will lend money to Blacks. However, why should the BIC be used for this? Once again, it is only a Government body. Rather use the building societies or ask the Black bank to establish a Black building society.

Mr. Speaker, I believe that there is also an extraordinary solution to this problem. In this regard, the hon. the Minister of Community Development and the hon. the Minister of Bantu Administration and Development must really be prepared to act flexibly. I know that when the hon. the Deputy Minister of Bantu Affairs visited my constituency, he had the opportunity of talking to a group of bright young men. Among them were architects and other professional men, people with a whole host of new ideas on how to overcome this problem of housing. These days, considerable attention is being paid throughout the world to the aspect of housing and how to surmount the problems related to it. I know that many of the people concerned, particularly those in the Government departments, are cynical about the solution which is being offered. I believe for example, that standards can vary between different climatic regions.

In the Durban area, for example, the climate is very mild. It is not necessary to build houses there like those which are constructed in the Netherlands or in Northumberland. The Black man has become traditionally habituated to outside living. He is not afraid of rain as the White man is. He has not always just returned from the hairdresser. I believe that the topography in Durban lends itself pre-eminently to the construction of houses on terraces against the hills. In fact, the Black people are already doing so. Living units of the type which are normally referred to as “terrace houses”, may be constructed. These are rows of semidetached rooms with a step in front. The people are quite satisfied with them. Roads can be built with three terraces above and three below each road, all this, of course, with the provision of the basic services.

I believe that we must be prepared to accept that we can no longer adhere to the normal Western standard of double walls. We cannot maintain this if we want to house our people in a decent manner. We must understand that the average man wants a roof over his head and that he is not really so much concerned about whether it is a brick wall of 9 inches thick or whether it is a corrugated iron roof, just as long as he, together with his family, can enjoy a little privacy. It is very important that we realize this. Not everyone is so materialistically inclined as to want to possess a bidet or a second bathroom or all those luxurious items. The average man simply wants a home which he can share with his family.

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, I do not have the time to elaborate further on this matter but I just want to stress one aspect. The squatter or the man who comes from rural areas is someone with skill, someone who can look after himself. In our Black areas, the Black woman is particularly skilful. I believe that, if we can use the skill and the spirit of free enterprise of the squatter or the man who comes from the rural areas, and of the Black woman in particular, and if we can provide them with the necessary means and give them the necessary advice and help, we can achieve a great deal. We are not going to build such attractive houses as those which the Department of Community Development is constructing at places such as Triomf and elsewhere but we are going to give better and healthy homes to people who, for lack of them, have gone to live in the most awful hovels. Unfortunately, I do not now have the time to talk about Clermont itself but I would just like to say that I am terribly upset about what has happened in Clermont in the last few months as regards the removal of squatters. However, I must concede that the hon. the Minister and his officials have acted in a far better and far more fair manner than we saw today on the front page of Die Burger where a front-loader was demolishing the house of a poor squatter. I believe that we must act with great circumspection in places such as Clermont and the greater Durban area because we know that there are 350 000 people in those areas who need decent housing. If we start moving around there with front-loaders and taking strong action, we are going to find ourselves running into very great problems.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Pinetown referred to the population explosion, something of which he is, of course, a product. We did not hear an explosion this afternoon, but just a peep to which he made specific reference. Perhaps I should say “a small peep, just a peeplet”. [Interjections.] His whole speech dealt with Bantu affairs and Bantu housing and to that the hon. the Minister of Bantu Affairs will reply more specifically. In terms of the motion on the Order Paper an emergency housing programme is to be launched immediately. I want to contend the very opposite and that is that the Government in fact launched an emergency housing programme a number of years ago. Show me a country anywhere in Africa which has a housing programme comparable to that of South Africa. Show me a country anywhere in the world which has a home building programme comparable to that of South Africa, especially if one has regard to the distinctive unique ethnic composition of our population, as well as the particular population growth in certain population groups in South Africa, and, of course, the fact that the economic and industrial urban development in South Africa is so spectacular that it attracts thousands of people to the cities, One should also have regard to the fact that South Africa, like all other countries of the world, is being handicapped by economic problems today, and is inevitably experiencing a recession in the building industry on that account. In spite of that the Government built 25 731 dwelling units for Whites, Coloureds and Asians in 1968. This is a record in the history of the country. One must have regard to the fact that of these more than 25 000 dwelling units, more than 20 000 are being used as-accommodation for the non-White peoples. To this should be added that the planning for 1977, the very year in which we are probably going to experience the worst economic problems in many decades, provides for a programme which will beat even the record of 1976 with a new total of 29 000 dwelling units. In spite of increasing expenditure in connection with defence and oil purchases, and in spite of inflation and recession, South Africa realizes that in the next 23 years it will have to double the total number of dwelling units built in this country over the past 325 years.

Therefore we are aware of this problem, and at the same time one realizes that a process of urbanization is taking place and that it is anticipated that by the end of this century at least 92% of Whites and Coloureds will live in the cities where they will need accommodation. This, however, is a problem which one cannot consider quantitatively only but which one must also consider qualitatively. One must consider this qualitatively and take into account the fact that according to a recent survey, a Coloured household in the Peninsula experienced an increase of 97% in its income within the period five years up to the year 1975. This creates more sophisticated housing requirements. This gives rise to housing requirements which differ from those which we knew in the past. After all, every inhabitant is not striving for a house as such only, but for a house of quality, of ever-improving quality, in a good area. For that reason the Government has also been paying special attention over the past few years, to the development of the surroundings in which we can settle our people. That is why the emphasis is on the matter of the best possible planning, with community facilities for creating a happy community in sound social circumstances so that responsibility and initiative may be developed. In this way we can develop people with character and integrity, people of whom this country may be proud. This is why we have embarked on spectacular undertakings, as at Mitchell’s Plain, which has been scientifically planned, and at Atlantis, which had a completed primary school and sports stadium before a single person moved in. The development of community facilities was also emphasized.

Is it not this very Government, which is continually being accused of racism and discrimination, which plans to allocate more than half of the total expenditure on housing to the non-White races in this country in the year 1977? Is it not this very Government which is planning four dwelling units for non-White population groups for every single dwelling unit planned for a White in 1977, four times as much as for Whites, and this at a time in which we are weighed down by oppressive economic problems? Where in Africa can John Citizen buy an economic house, built with Community Development funds, and for a deposit of only R300 obtain a three-bedroomed house on a large plot for R11 000, repayable over a period of 30 years at subsidized rates of interest which vary from 3½% to 9½%? Just look at the development projects which the Government has undertaken.

Look at Bothasig in my constituency, which is named after the hon. the Minister of Defence, where people bought houses at R6 000 five years ago and are selling those houses in which they invested an amount of R200 at that time, for R11 000—a difference of R5 000. They are able to do this because of the initiative displayed by the Government. We cannot maintain that we are not experiencing a housing backlog, because a backlog does exist, but the important aspect is that we realize this and are planning accordingly, which will enable us to eliminate the backlog so that a situation similar to the one in the United States of America, where they have given up all hope of ever eliminating the backlog, will never arise. The department also has a duty towards the less privileged, to make a livable, durable dwelling unit available to him and to experiment with building methods, building construction and materials in order to create the best possible product, not only a house of quality, but also a house which he can afford. The State borrows funds at 11�% and make them available to these less privileged people, who are suffering financially, at 1%, so that they, too, may be accommodated properly.

By way of summary I should like to say that there is no problem at all in this country as far as the provision of housing for Whites is concerned. On the contrary. Eighty per cent of their accommodation is provided by the Whites themselves. We have a backlog as far as the Coloureds are concerned, but we are making a majestic attempt to eliminate this backlog. In fact, we are engaged in an emergency programme every day in order to create houses of quality at reasonable rates. Not only do we provide the numbers, but we also provide a house of quality. In this connection I should like to refer to Prof. Cowan, a world authority in the field of cheap accommodation, a man who wrote a letter to the UNO in which he said that South Africa had the unique key to the formula of creating cheap accommodation of a good quality at half the rate at which any other State in Africa could do it, in spite of lower wages paid in those States. We also find that at the symposium on cheap accommodation which was held in Montreal in 1974, South Africa was praised for the special endeavours made by this country and for the special way in which cheap accommodation had been made available. As regards the planning of this type of accommodation, the Government is determined to provide the numbers in the most scientific way which can be devised. For this reason the Government is tackling this situation with a singleness of purpose to solve the problem. Therefore it is essential for us to take note once again of the fact that, in spite of financial problems, we shall make available a larger number of dwelling units to all population groups in the year ahead, a larger number than has ever been made available in our history. So it is essential for every inhabitant of this country to take note of and record his appreciation for the immense endeavour which is being made by the Government to provide accommodation and I have no hesitation in saying that I fully support the amendment moved by the hon. member for Boksburg.

Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Durbanville has tried to show how many houses the Government has already built. I do not think this is the point at issue, for if one reads properly the motion moved by the hon. member for Green Point, he actually tried to show that it was concerned with those people who do not have houses and with what can be done for them. In this respect I support the motion moved by the hon. member for Green Point. Now I want to proceed from the specific to the general. This is a very wide motion covering a great many areas, but I want to mention a specific example and to proceed from there in stating my argument with regard to the present housing policy.

I want to begin with Grassy Park, the squatters’ camp that was demolished yesterday. In this connection I want to ask the hon. the Minister of Community Development a few very simple and specific questions. On 30 March 1976, they received the first notice informing them that they had to leave the area within seven days. Seven days passed and nothing happened, and on 3 July 1976 they received a similar notice, but again seven days passed and nothing happened. On 19 January this year, they received a notice telling them to leave the area, and then some of the houses were demolished. However, the people did not move away, but only went to live closer to the road, still in the same area. They did not disappear, but merely put up their shanties closer to the road. On 9 February this year, the people received another notice, and yesterday some of their dwellings were demolished.

The questions I want to ask the hon. the Minister of Community Development are these: Who are the people who are entitled to be in the Cape Peninsula? They fall in various categories. In the first place there are those who go to squat there, people who used to live with their employers, and when the employer moved to another residence or left town, they had no place to live and so they went to live there. This is one category. The following example falls in the second category. Last week one of the squatters came to see me and said that he was living on a plot in Elsies River together with 26 other families. The plot has now been sold, the new owner wants to build a house on it, and the 26 families have to leave. Their names have been put on a waiting list of some divisional council or local authority, but at the moment they have no houses and now they have to move. Where do these people go? They squat again. So there are people of this kind as well. We also have the cases of people who did have houses, but who could not afford the rent and then …

Or did not want to pay the rent!

Could not afford it or did not want to pay it. I shall come back to this point at a later stage, but I want to ask the hon. the Minister: What becomes of these people? The hon. the Minister must not say again that the people are here illegally. These people are here legally, and what becomes of them? Now they are homeless, and the hon. the Minister says that he has a plan. Perhaps he does have a plan, but I want to ask the hon. the Minister: If he does have a plan, why does he not first announce the plan, implement it and then give the people the houses? The hon. the Minister gave a promise in this House, and a personal one afterwards, that they would talk to these people individually, to those in Modderdam Road, for example, and that they would find out what their problems were. They would also ascertain whether there was alternative accommodation, and only then would their homes be demolished so that they could then go to the alternative accommodation. The hon. the Minister also said that no bulldozer would be used, but what happened in the case of Grassy Park? Why cannot the people of Grassy Park rely on the same promises? The hon. the Minister said that it was not a bulldozer. If I am run over by a car, surely it does not matter whether it is a Jaguar or a Mercedes. Surely the effect is the same.

What do you mean by “run over”?

There is the photograph and the caption reads: “Hierdie krot is omgestoot deur ’n laaigraaf.” Whether it was flattened, raised or stacked is not the point. However, I want to ask the hon. the Minister this question: What effect does this have on South Africa’s image abroad?

Since when have you been concerned about South Africa’s image?

They are always complaining about the behaviour of this side of the House. However, there it is written in Die Burger of this morning, and what effect does it have? What has become of the hon. the Minister’s promises in this connection?

Every promise has been kept.

Do the hon. the Minister’s promises not apply to Grassy Park? We are concerned here with a general problem. I have now taken the case of Grassy Park, and I should be very glad if the hon. the Minister would answer my questions and explain what the position is in connection with those specific people. However, the issue is wider than this, for we are not only concerned with one category of squatter in South Africa. There are various categories of squatters. We have Coloured squatters who are in the Cape Peninsula legally and we have illegal Coloured squatters. We have Bantu squatters who are here legally and we have illegal Bantu squatters. In seeking shelter for their families or themselves, these people do not ask whether they are here legally or illegally. They want to know where they can make a living. However, that is not all, for we do not only have various categories of squatters. We also have various authorities who try in various ways to combat the problem of squatters. There are the Department of Community Development, the Department of Bantu Administration, the Divisional Council, the local authorities and in some cases the private owners of land as well. These various parties have various and quite different facilities and resources for combating the problem. For this reason I am able to agree with the hon. member for Green Point that what is of course required is a co-ordinated and an integrated housing plan, a uniform approach to the problem of homeless people in our community. This is absolutely necessary. However, such a plan for combating the problem of squatting must be seen against the background of a housing policy which makes a rational attempt to combat the problem. I want to submit a few suggestions to the hon. the Minister concerning the housing policy and I hope that he will give serious consideration to these suggestions.

[Inaudible.]

The hon. member for Vasco will be able to speak in a little while. Now I want to have my say, because the time available to me is quite limited. The first object of such a housing policy should be that the hon. the Minister and the department should find out the socio-economic characteristics of the people who need housing. In the Erica Theron Report—the hon. the Minister of Coloured, Rehoboth and Nama Relations is present—it is clearly stated that 50% of the Coloured labourers in the Western Cape have an income of less than R100 a month. If this is the case, one must consider what these people are able to pay for housing. For this reason, the second aspect of such a policy is that it is nonsensical for the State to provide houses which people cannot afford, for if one builds houses which they cannot afford, they live in them for a short while only and then they move out again, and we must remember that it costs the Government a great deal to provide these houses. The hon. the Minister said, when he was asked how many family housing units for Coloured people has been built in the Cape Peninsula in 1976 with the assistance of his department, that 6 234 units had been built. He was also asked what the estimated shortage of housing for Coloured families was at the end of 1976. The answer was 36 000 dwelling units. He was also asked when this shortage was expected to be wiped out. The answer was within seven to ten years, if funds could be provided to continue with the projects at the 1976-’77 rate. This makes sense, but the point I want to make

[Inaudible.]

Exactly, but the point I want to make is that if there are no funds available, the housing shortage will not be reduced, but will simply continue. For this reason one must bear in mind the fact that such a housing policy must be able to rely on the talents, the abilities, of those people. The fourth characteristic of such a housing policy is that there must be intensive planning regarding the patterns of land usage in a specific area over a certain period of time. In other words, one must be able to ascertain what the possible influx to the cities is going to be, how the land is going to be used, and then—and here I agree wholeheartedly with the hon. member for Green Point—those people who do not have accommodation and who cannot afford it must be enabled to utilize their own talents, with a minimum of assistance from the State, in order to establish themselves in an emergency housing unit in that area. Surely it must be as plain as a pike-staff to any observer that the housing crisis in our society basically affects the poorest section of the population, and that housing crisis will not be solved by means of sub-economic and economic housing units, which those people cannot afford in any case. For this reason it is important to concentrate on this category of people in order to stabilize them as urban communities and not to disrupt them.

In squatters’ camps.

There is no sense in disrupting these people if there is no alternative accommodation available for them. They will have to wonder about the Cape Flats like a lot of human guinea-fowls. They will squat, be chased away, and squat again. They must be stabilized as an urban community.

Where do they come from?

I said a little while ago where they came from. Many come from that hon. member’s area as well. [Interjections.] From those established communities, there will naturally emerge people in course of time who will be able to afford better sub-economic and economic housing. It is no use just talking about a housing policy. A housing policy must also be understood against the background of the social processes taking place in our community. It is no use working out a splendid housing policy if it runs counter to the social processes taking place in South Africa at the moment.

The population explosion has already been mentioned as an example. One must take cognizance of this and see how it is to be handled and combated. In addition, there is the whole problem of urban immigration, which leads to tremendous population migrations, and the Afrikaner is one of the best examples of this. Over a period of 40 years, the urbanization figure in respect of the Afrikaner has increased from 16% to approximately 65%. This represents a tremendous population migration. We are now witnessing the same kind of thing on the part of the Black and Coloured people in our community.

Another social process is the unequal economic development of rural and urban areas. For these processes we cannot blame the Government, any government; they are taking place all over Africa. However, these processes mean that in the short run, there has to be unproductive capital expenditure in order to create a social infrastructure, and it is against this background that we must evaluate the Government’s measures and try to ascertain how successful the Government has been. In this respect, it is clear to me that there is no co-ordinated and integrated policy. There should be the closest co-operation with the Department of Planning for example, for the purpose of ascertaining the country’s material and physical resources in order to see how these may be mobilized over a certain period of time to combat the problem of housing. There must be a rational labour policy. One cannot restrict a person so that he is only able to sell his labour in a certain area in which he then simply becomes an unemployed person and creates a problem as far as housing is concerned. There must be rational economic decentralization. If this does not happen against the background of a housing policy in our community, the hon. the Minister of Bantu Administration and the hon. the Minister of Community Development may do all they can with the aid of the pass laws, as they are called, the influx control legislation and the legislation concerning squatters, but they will achieve nothing, for the simple reason that an ordinary person cannot block up with his hands the wall of a dam that has burst. It simply cannot be done. More is required than just punitive measures and the disruption of these people. This problem must also be studied intensively.

How dare you say just punitive measures?

They are punitive measures, nothing but punitive measures.

Mr. Speaker, this debate has degenerated into a debate on squatters. The hon. member for Rondebosch devoted himself to the problem of squatters. I must say that he did so in a very responsible way. I have just as much sympathy for the squatters as he has. Let me say straight out that I do not believe the hon. member was irresponsible. However, I do not agree with all he said. I shall come back to that later.

I want to draw the hon. member’s attention to an article which appeared in The Argus of 26 April 1975. The article appeared under the heading “Vrygrond Squatters won’t be kicked out”. Let me quote—

It went on to say—

What a disgrace!

*Mr. S. A. VAN DEN HEEVER:

No wonder Waddell is away. It is a shameful thing.

*Mr. S. A. VAN DEN HEEVER:—

What the hon. member advocates is that the squatters should be allowed to live here, there and everywhere, as long as they do not live next to an Anglo American project. [Interjections.] And that is not all. A wire fence must be erected and a buffer strip must be created, so that the squatters will not be too close to the Marina da Gama. They may live anywhere in South Africa. They may live next to the poor people, but not next to Houghton and not next to the Marina da Gama.

Let them have it, Boet!

This party stands for a common society. They say people may live wherever they like, but here they make it very clear that “Vrygrond must not be rezoned for Coloureds;” i.e., it must remain White if it is situated next to Houghton or next to the Marina da Gama. [Interjections.] Mr. Speaker, do you know who serves on the board of directors of the Marina da Gama? Mr. Waddell. If I am not mistaken, he was the chairman of that board of directors.

You are confusing the issue with this nonsense.

No, I am trying to help your cause. This is what your people pleaded for.

You are making a fool of yourself, Boet. Sit down!

That reminds me, Sir, that the hon. member for Pinelands has also pleaded for a common society, but the Coloureds may not walk through Pinelands. Then we have the hon. member for Sea Point who pleads for open facilities in Green Point, but never in Sea Point.

That is untrue.

This is what we have to contend with.

I want to come back to the real problem. We on this side of the House are a responsible Opposition and we shall approach this matter in a responsible way. As I have said, we have just as much sympathy for the squatters as anyone else. However, the problem of squatters is a world-wide problem. We were told about Hong Kong the other day. We were told about the economy of Hong Kong.

Hong Kong?

Mr. Speaker, I have been to Hong Kong. I do not have enough money to travel a great deal, but I do travel now and then, and I have been to Hong Kong. Sir, do you know what things are like in Hong Kong? There it happens that 3 000 people live on one floor with one bathroom and one toilet—the greatest overcrowding one could possibly find. What are things like in Rio de Janeiro? Surely those hon. members have travelled extensively— after all, Harry Oppenheimer pays for the lot of them. We know what happened in Lusaka and how Dr. Kenneth Kaunda drove people away in lorries as a result of this problem. It is a problem which has to be approached sympathetically; it is not a problem to play politics with. I have just as much sympathy for them, and for that reason I am going to move a realistic amendment today. Accordingly I move as a further amendment—

1. (1) to reverse the flow of people to the cities by following a dynamic policy of decentralization to sound economic growth points;
2. (2) to make adequate provision for housing in the decentralized and urban areas through the Department of Community Development, local authorities and the building societies; and
3. (3) to assist the building societies so that they will have adequate loan funds available for housing at reasonable interest rates.”.

I think this is a reasonable amendment. It does not provide only for urban housing, as does the first amendment. We realize that this problem of the influx to the cities is closely linked up with the problem of the depopulation of the rural areas. Do not tell me that nothing can be done about this. Light industries can be created in the rural areas. In fact, so many things can be done to make the rural areas more attractive, but the problem is that the rural areas are not properly represented in this House. We do not have any members of the House of Assembly making pleas here for the interests of the rural areas of South Africa. If we were to have such pleas, we could have that growth which would make the rural areas more attractive. As far as the influx to the cities is concerned, we are constantly being told that the people cannot find work in the rural areas. That is why they flock to the cities. The opportunities in the cities are no better than in the rural areas. On the contrary, they are much worse. It is a world-wide phenomenon, as I have said, for people to go in search of the bright lights, the night-life of the city, a phenomenon which is found among White as well as Black people. It is a natural phenomenon. It is for this reason that I ask whether we cannot devise a plan to bring urban life to the rural areas, or at least, some part of urban life. Surely this is a simple plan. Just think of what television can do to make life in the rural areas more comfortable. Just think of the elderly people who can live much more cheaply in the rural areas and who could then have the worldly pleasures in their homes as well. This is also where young people may receive a better education, where they may acquire a wider knowledge. These are all things which may be brought to the rural areas.

Now I should like to discuss our non-White population. In the first place, there are the farm labourers. Think of the advantages that television would hold for them on a Saturday night. Let us say quite frankly in this House, for it ought to be said, that the greatest problem regarding the Brown worker today is the abuse of alcohol and their absence on Monday mornings. If they can be entertained on Saturdays so that they may enjoy a better type of life, just think what could be achieved in this way.

In the second place there is Escom power. There are four power-lines running across my farm, but I cannot get Escom power from them. The rural areas are neglected as far as power is concerned, and there is not a single member here who is prepared to rise and to make a plea for the rural areas, for they are not represented. We who represent urban constituencies, we have to do that work for them. I could talk all night about the advantages of decentralization. My amendment does not only provide for decentralization; it also takes account of the requirements of the city. We say that the building societies should have adequate funds to enable them to grant loans at a low interest rate, so that every man may have a house of his own and we may become a country of house-owners and not a country of tenants.

Mr. Speaker, I agree, to a reasonable extent, that it is a realistic amendment which the hon. member has moved, but it is remarkable—and I want to dispose of this quickly—that if anyone in this House steps on the toes of our friends who are sitting over there when they are demanding White exclusiveness for themselves or when they plead for exclusive residential or trading conditions of a certain group somewhere, under any circumstances whatsoever, and one points this out, then, instead of sitting there in embarrassment, they utter strange noises and, as that hon. member said, they suddenly start talking nonsense. I just want to tell those hon. members that if they bring up examples of that type, which we will be able to scratch out here and there if they cannot hide them well enough, they need not talk to us about morality or about one pleasant community in which we all understand one another and in which everyone receives equal treatment. That does not worry us because then there is a great deal of dishonesty in what they are advocating.

I want to agree, for another reason, with the hon. member’s amendment. One of the points which it contains is a dynamic policy, inter alia, in respect of decentralization, which must receive some attention. May I just read to the hon. member what I said towards the end of last year at a function in Vanderbijlpark. I said the following—

I then referred to the cost factor and to the question of people in the White area who are economically inactive. I went on to refer to the great disadvantages which can result from the large cities and that if one wants to eventually develop backward areas, then one will have to occupy oneself with a process of population reflux. I then went on to say—

In other words, I cannot find much fault with that part of his amendment, or even other parts of his amendment. May I go further and thank the hon. member for Green Point and the hon. member for Pinetown for treating me in such a kindly manner today. They have said all sorts of kindly things to me. However, I must be honest. They have actually said very little which is completely new. I have spoken on more than one occasion about the question of differentiation between the different population levels and I shall return to this. In addition, I have been talking for years now about the question of financial aid from external bodies and my only regret is that the hon. member for Green Point did not place more stress on this and did not invite employers and other parties to make their contributions. The hon. member for Pinetown said that I had visited his constituency. I enjoyed myself very much there. He almost killed me with all the driving around I had to do, but that is by the way. Nevertheless, he said that afterwards, he did not hear as much as a peep out of me. Surely, Mr. Speaker, the hon. member cannot expect one to raise a peep about every matter in every constituency. Local conditions form a part of a larger pattern and I have raised quite a few peeps, and quite loud peeps at that, about the larger patterns, into which Pinetown’s problems also fit. I can give the hon. member substantial evidence of this.

In this regard, I need only refer to the document which I am now holding in my hand. It is a survey in connection with housing for Blacks. Last year I caused a questionnaire to be sent to every Bantu Affairs Administration Board in the country. In those questionnaires, they had to supply, me with certain data. This document contains a wealth of data, data concerning each Bantu township in South Africa, even the smallest hamlet. My problem, however, is that I only received the document this week. Some of the figures which it contains must be verified but despite that, it is a document which will enable us to accomplish something. So if I did not make any specific reference to Pinetown … Good heavens, surely I do not have the time to spend the whole day talking about Pinetown alone. There are certainly more important things which I also have to deal with. When it is necessary, I shall say something about Pinetown and I shall also render assistance to Pinetown, as I did to that hon. member. [Interjections.]

Mr. Speaker, let us return to the basic issues. What is our problem?

Mr. Speaker, I want to know from the hon. the Deputy Minister whether he is going to amend the legislation and whether … [Interjections.]

I shall discuss that. Mr. Speaker, I shall discuss on a whole range of issues. It is unfortunate, however, that one’s time is so limited and that consequently, it is not possible to deal with all these matters in detail. Many surveys have been made. Many of those surveys have been based on guesswork, however, and we frequently refer to figures which are actually hanging in the air because they are based on estimations. I trust that once these data have been verified, one will be able to accomplish a little more with them. Of course, this does not by any means signify that there has been stagnation in respect of the things being provided. What have we done in the meanwhile? We have financial problems and I should like to refer to what the World Bank once had to say about the financing of housing. I quote—

The overall national development is closely bound up with this.

In this regard, my department has asked employers for their assistance. Employers have already reacted very favourably. I am sorry that I cannot show the hon. members the list of employers who have so far provided their employees with housing. Mr. Speaker, you need only go and take a look at the quality of the housing which is being provided. I refer, for example, to the Iscor hostels at Vanderbijlpark. Concerning these, a Black man said to me—

We need only go and take a look at the housing which is being provided by African Explosives and Imperial Chemicals at Sasolburg, as well as at what has been accomplished in the field of family housing. I am not exaggerating now, but when I stood in front of one of those duplex flats I said—

This is what employers have done and we are continually urging employers to keep on doing this. Therefore, I find it unfortunate that the hon. member for Green Point and all the other hon. members who have spoken are not always blowing this trumpet as well, because it is not only the responsibility of the State. Whenever a person wants to utilize Black labour in White South Africa, he must pay for that privilege. It is not a matter of simply employing a work unit. There are a tremendous number of related aspects: The purchase of land, the provision of services, transport and everything else, are all additional considerations. Who must pay for them? In the long run, unless that individual is properly housed, the State is blamed for it, and if things are not going well, the State is reproached.

We went even further. We have attempted to enlist the aid of building societies and, if I may do so, I claim much of the credit for this for myself. I handed over four houses to Blacks at Vanderbijlpark, the first four houses which had been built with building society money for Blacks in South Africa. In that case—and this answers a question which was asked by an hon. member—the money was loaned to the Administration Board. In the same way, money has already been loaned to the West Rand Bantu Administration Board as well. However, building societies would very much like to lend money to Black individuals. They want to do business with an individual and not with a Government body such as the Bantu Administration Boards. This matter is receiving attention at present. The hon. the Prime Minister’s Economic Advisory Board is at present conducting an investigation into how the legislation may be amended or what arrangements may be made to make it possible for building societies to help people with money in the normal manner, should it be impossible to help them in other ways.

Mr. Speaker, we are talking about those things and we are doing them. It is part of the national strategy in which the Government is engaged. However, I want to ask another question. Ought we not to pay more attention to so-called institutional funds and attempt to use that money as well? I am referring inter alia, to pension funds and now I shall leave building societies aside for the time being. There are many funds to which the Black man contributes and I believe that money could be channelled from those funds in order to assist him.

When we talk about the home-ownership scheme, it is important for me to point out something in this connection, as well. People often talk in this House as if very few people in South Africa owned their own home at the moment. It must be remembered that a home-ownership scheme existed before 1968. I may refer to two examples. There was one in my constituency and one in another township, administration of which was for a long time the responsibility of the Germiston City Council. That was before the establishment of the Bantu Affairs Administration Boards. In the Thembisa township there are 13 499 houses, 7 473 of which are in the possession of Black people. In other words, 53% of the houses in that township belong to Blacks. In the Katlehong township, also known as Natalspruit, there are 14 362 houses. 10 685 of these belong to Black people. This is 74%. I can point out townships to you in the White areas of Germiston in which more people hire houses than do the Blacks in the townships which I have mentioned.

What is interesting, however, in the same questionnaire—and I do not want to hurl recriminations—is that in Daveyton, under the control of the Benoni City Council— which has always been a SAP city council— there are 10 665 houses, of which only 169—a meagre 2%—belong to Blacks. I place a large question mark against this. [Interjections.]

If people want to do good, so to speak, and have had the opportunity of doing good, and if they are asking for those things for which they have argued so fiercely here this afternoon, why did they not do good when they had the opportunity of doing so? Why are they not doing it even now, now that the home-ownership scheme has been reintroduced?

[Inaudible.]

Mr. Speaker, I am talking about before 1968. However, I want to touch upon another matter briefly. There has been talk here of raised standards. Brakpan’s old Bantu township has to be relocated. That Bantustan will be relocated and the Bantu Administration Board is in the process of constructing reasonably good houses for those people. However, Mr. Speaker, do you know what we have to contend with? The cost of the new houses— that is the cost of a house with the necessary services—will amount to R40,93 per month. This is what the rental of the house will be. Every Bantu is subsidized by R33,38 per house, and consequently pays only R7,55 from his own pocket. Are these not achievements, and is this not humane action towards people who cannot afford it? This brings me to another matter, however, but I think that my time has almost expired. As regards the Bantu community—be it in the homeland or in the White area—it is important that we differentiate between people and their financial means. If a man has the money, let him build a house to his own taste. Let that house even be a luxury house for that matter. As far as I am concerned, it does not matter.

Now we come to the groups which were mentioned by the hon. member for Green Point. There is, however, that group which cannot actually pay the rental of the type of house which we are providing. I think that, even in the White areas, if we ever want to eliminate the shortage and make provision for the population growth, we shall have to return to the old site and service scheme. I should prefer not to use that name, but I am calling it that provisionally because it is a well-known term. I call it “controlled self-construction”. We shall just have to ensure that such a scheme complies with the demands of the majority, otherwise it will not succeed. We could even add to the rental of many of these people the cost of basic materials, such as doors, windows, corrugated iron sheets. These materials must be made available at stores so that no problems need arise. However, there must be larger schemes and each of the participants in those schemes must be involved in them from the beginning, so that it is part of something in which he himself is involved, something which is going to be his own township.

You should be the Minister responsible for Housing!

I could almost write an entire dissertation on this matter, because it is a matter which deserves special attention.

I want to return—I assume that my time has almost expired—to the question of balancing action. If we do not want to be overwhelmed by numbers in the White areas in South Africa, it will be necessary for us to ensure that everyone who needs housing does not obtain it only in the major White metropolitan areas. I want to refer at this juncture to a disconcerting aspect. Here in Cape Town, 782 unproductive people are sitting in family housing and doing so while there is a shortage of family housing in Cape Town, something with which I am reproached every day. There are 782 such people in Cape Town and I wonder how many people are in the same position elsewhere. Unfortunately, it does not appear in this survey, but I shall have it supplemented and I shall obtain all that information. Is it not time that, instead of writing off the people’s rent month by month, provision was also made, in conjunction with Bantu homeland Governments and Administration Boards, for these people in the homelands as well? We ought not to insist only on provision in White areas because the volume of services and the cost of land and so on will eventually become too much for us. For this reason, I am pleased to have the support of an hon. member such as the one for King William’s Town in respect of what I call a balancing action. This also applies to actions within the homelands. There must be balanced development of housing, township development and so on.

My time has expired and I am sorry that I have to end on this note because there are a lot of papers in my hand and I could have answered a great many more questions which hon. members put to me.

Mr. Speaker, the official Opposition welcomes the measures and steps which the hon. the Deputy Minister announced this afternoon, but it is a matter of great regret to this side of the House that it has taken such a long time for the Government to heed the pleading which has been made by this side of the House for the very thing which is being introduced, too late and too slowly. I sincerely believe that had the measures been taken earlier to encourage home ownership, to provide the facilities and to create a middle class of Bantu, the likelihood of the violence which we have seen in the past year would have been much more remote and could have been to a much lesser extent. However, we hope that there is still time to create this middle-class Bantu who feel that they have a stake in White South Africa.

I want to deal with the motion of the hon. member for Green Point which I subscribe to wholeheartedly. He referred to the urgent need for family accommodation in urban areas. At the outset I would like to refer to the housing position which existed roughly ten years ago in the years 1967 and 1968. I am dealing with the whole housing situation in the Republic. At that stage I was advised by the then encumbent Minister that no scientifically calculated estimate as to housing shortages existed for all income categories in the different population groups. With this disclosure there was the information, for which I had asked, that the estimated shortage for all races was 37 700. Let me make it quite clear that when I say “all races” in this context, I am referring to White, Coloured and Indian. I am excluding Bantu houses altogether from the calculation. The estimated shortage just in respect of those three races was 37 700. I will deal in round figures because many of the estimates were given in round figures. The number of houses provided during the year 1966 was roughly one third of the estimated shortage. We come to 1969, when I framed the same question. I received as an addendum in the answer, this—

This was in 1969 and at that stage the estimated shortage was still over 37 000 houses for the three races I referred to.

In 1973, four years later, the estimated shortage had risen to 85 000 houses. In that year 22 000, roughly a quarter, of the houses needed were provided. However, in 1973, I think, there came a realization that it was necessary to have a firm basis on which to estimate the future housing needs, because the answer to my question was—

Now we are getting a clearer grasp of the picture. In 1973 the department claimed that—

They also said in the reply that the building of houses for Indians in the Durban complex would also be raised to a maximum. However, what were the facts? The facts were that in the four years from 1973 40 000 houses were provided for the Coloureds in the Cape, but it left the target for the final year of 20 000 if the initial aim of providing 12 000 houses a year for five years is to be achieved. The other significant aspect was that the estimated shortage of houses in the Western Province had only been reduced by 4 000, and in 1976 the estimated shortage stood at 46 000 houses for Coloureds in the Cape Province. We have to remember that only eight years before, the State President had stated to South Africa and the word at large: “No general housing need exists in the country.”

However, the Coloureds in the Cape are only part of the picture and I would like to, in the time at my disposal, to examine the position in regard to the Indians in the Durban complex. In 1973 there was an estimated shortage of 7 900 houses in respect of Indians. Four years later the estimated shortage had swelled to 12 200 in the Durban complex, and in the whole of Natal, as far as Indian housing alone is concerned, the estimated shortage was 17 700. During these four years under 4 000 houses were provided. Remember that the intention was to raise to the maximum the building of Indian houses. What in effect happened, was that during that time the shortage increased by 50%. I would say that the Indian housing shortage is not acute, it is critical.

The answer that was giving to me was that the latest estimate was 12 200 for the shortage in Indian housing in the Durban complex. I want to tell the hon. the Minister that I regard that figure as being completely unrealistic. I believe that it has been calculated on the figures that the hon. the Minister gave me on the population of Chatsworth, which he puts down as 146 000. That figure must have come into the calculations, but I am reliably informed that the population of Chatsworth is estimated at round about a quarter of a million, and I am told that the S.A. Police estimate the population of Chatsworth at 300 000 souls. The reliable estimate on surveys which were carried out, is that in Durban alone there is a backlog of 30 000 houses for the Indian community. Added to that we have the problem of Coloured housing in Durban and the Durban complex. The latest figures indicate that in Natal, which does not boast a large Coloured population, there is a shortage of 5 500 houses, 4 000 of those houses being in the Durban complex alone. So we not only have a shortage of houses, but we are also faced with the depressing situation of a shortage of money. After almost a generation of NP Government, the overall housing shortage— excluding Bantu housing, may I emphasize—throughout South Africa is 86 000 at present, compared with an estimated total of 37 500 10 years ago. Who is to blame but this Government? It has been obsessed by its own ideology and hamstrung by group areas legislation, which has meant removals which exacerbate the already difficult situation. My hon. colleague from Green Point dealt in detail with the figures in regard to removals, and I think they make very distressing reading. There is one point I believe we should clarify. In the answer I was given with regard to the number of removals that were effected, was, as I have indicated, that almost 90% of the people who were removed as a result of the group areas legislation were living in slums. Why claim that they were living in slums? I believe they were living in what appeared to be slum conditions simply because they were living on the edge of a volcano. They did not know when they would be called upon to be uprooted from where they had been living for years and taken to some suburb or township outside the environment in which they had been accustomed to live. The interesting part is that in answer to a question the hon. the Minister indicated at that stage that it was expected that the number of removals, which still had to take place in terms of the group areas legislation, would be completed in 1978 or 1980, depending on alternative accommodation and the necessary funds. How realistic has the Government been, however, in providing these towns? That is a good question. In 1974 the percentage of the gross national product which was expended by the State on housing for Whites, Coloureds and Indians, amounted to 0,73%; in 1975 it was 0,7% and in 1976 it was 0,9%. So it means that in three years the percentage spent, in relation to the gross national product, was less than 1% each year. It is no wonder that the hon. member for Green Point urged the Government to launch an emergency housing programme immediately to establish settled communities with adequate social facilities. The Indian community can be taken as an example. In 1964, 13 years ago, the Indian Council reported a lack of amenities, and in 1971 they said, and I quote from the South African Indian Council’s statement—

I should like to draw the attention of the hon. the Minister to a Press report in The Natal Mercury Extra of 5 February—

I have seen it myself, and in my opinion the report in no way exaggerates the position. The roads are poor and in certain areas there are no street lights. The area is overcrowded and plumbing is in disrepair.

Is that in Cravenby?

Yes. The sewerage is also overloaded. A vice-principal of a school, who was brought from Natal to the Cape to teach, has to live in cramped quarters and he cannot unpack his belongings because he is sharing accommodation. He has to travel eight miles to the toilet at D. F. Malan airport because of the overburdened sewerage system in Cravenby. What hope has the hon. the Minister to offer people like that who are highly qualified, intelligent, cultured and respectable? I believe that the shortage of houses among the Indian people is leading to extreme exploitation and abuse. One only has to look around to know of existing cases of abuse because people are so desperate to get homes. Notwithstanding all these facts, there was a claim that the housing shortage would be overcome in five years. It was unrealistic and is unlikely to take place unless the State exploits the present crisis in the building industry and institutes, as my hon. colleague has suggested, a crash programme to relieve the growing unemployment in the building industry and use the surplus stores, which some sections of the building industry have been stockpiling because they have no outlet for these stores, and provide these desperately needed houses.

Unless the Government shakes itself free of its pig-headed preoccupation with its ideologies, the position can only deteriorate. In conclusion I should like to refer the hon. the Minister to a statement I have read which referred to one of his Cabinet colleagues, but it could well be applied to this hon. Minister because I am sure he will find it applicable. I shall only change the tenses. I quote—

This comes from a translation of an editorial in Die Transvaler of 12 February 1977.

Mr. Speaker, I want to express my thanks to hon. members on all sides of this House for an exceptionally interesting, and I think important and instructive discussion. I want to express my thanks to my good friend, the hon. member for Green Point, for the spadework which he did. Of course he began with a political salvo, a political handful of dust in one’s eye. I find it strange that such a learned and intelligent man as he can make the same mistake twice. In Afrikaans we have a saying that even a donkey does not bump its head twice against the same rock.

†The hon. member for Green Point made the same mistake twice and entered into fields which even a donkey would be astute enough to avoid for the second time.

*He allowed himself to be misled again by the Press. I want to tell him at once, so that he may know what standpoint I proceed from, that since I spoke to him in this House on Monday, not a single house has been flattened by a bulldozer or any other mechanical device. I have the photographs here. Last night’s Argus said—

That is of course their method of plucking at the heart-strings—

I have studied the photograph from all angles; I consulted the experts about this, but I am still looking for the “bulldozer”. There is no bulldozer. What is shown in the photograph is an excavator. [Interjections.] Wait a minute. I shall come to that in a moment. I repeat that neither an excavator, nor any other similar mechanical implement was used to destroy a single dwelling since I last spoke about this matter. [Interjections.] I have here the photograph which appeared in Die Burger, a photograph of a vehicle which is dealing with a large number of corrugated iron sheets. The caption to the photograph reads: “’n Laaigraaf van die Stellenbosse afdelingsraad stoot ’n plakkershut om.” I have spoken to people who do this kind of work. They say that a squatter’s hut does not look like this, not even when it was demolished. These are a large number of corrugated iron sheets which have been piled into a heap. We do use “iron jaws”—as I called excavators when I was a child—for two purposes. The one is after the shanties have been dismantled by the officials of the authority concerned and after the people’s possessions have been removed and safely stored …

All done by hand?

Yes, everything is done by hand. The machines then clear up the heavy, unbreakable material that has remained behind. If one does this with a bulldozer, however, one destroys the material and then one may be charged under common law with damage to property. However, that is not all … [Interjections.] Those hon. members are making noises. I now want to know from them … [Interjections.]

Order!

My resignation has been demanded, and I would have thought that hon. members would, out of courtesy, have afforded me an opportunity to reply. I cannot help it if they have made fools of themselves, but why should they keep on doing so now, during this debate as well? It is not my department or I, in the first place, who find ourselves in the dock today, but the Stellenbosch Divisional Council. This is the only criticism which appeared in the newspapers, but their sub-editing work is of such a low standard these days that I have ceased to criticize. The newspapers, and certainly the hon. member for Green Point, should at least have shown the courtesy and intelligence to have consulted the Stellenbosch Divisional Council first, which is being charged here and accused of this. However, I had to do so for them, and now I want to set them straight a little. I have here a report on the authority of the chairman of the Stellenbosch Divisional Council, Mr. Joubert. What does he say in regard to this matter?

I bet he got that thumped out of him!

I wish I could hear what that hon. member is saying.

I said: “I bet he got that thumped out of him. ”

Sir, that is one of the most despicable and contemptible remarks I have heard in this House, and I have been here for 30 years. [Interjections.]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order: The hon. member for Umhlanga has cast a reflection on the Minister, and I am asking you whether he is entitled to do so. I am asking you to give a ruling in this regard.

Order! What did the hon. member for Umhlanga mean by the words “thumped out of him”? Did he mean “beaten out of him”?

I meant that it was demanded from him that he give a report. [Interjections.] Mr. Speaker, may I address you without that noisy rabble from …

Order! I take the word “thumped” to mean that he was bullied into making that statement and the hon. member must withdraw it.

I withdraw the word “thumped”, Sir. [Interjections.]

Mr. Joubert is chairman of the council and the majority on that council are not supporters of this side of the House, and yet, unlike hon. members on that side of the House—and specifically the hon. member for Umhlanga—I have the utmost respect for the members of the divisional council and for Mr. Joubert. I can now give this House the following information on the authority of Mr. Joubert—

There you have the answer. I repeat that the hon. member for Green Point was misled by the Press, for what he alleged, was never done. These photographs are genuine, but the interpretation is completely wrong.

I think that the hon. member for Green Point, with his experience as an official of the Supreme Court, ought to know that one cannot lay a charge against people—in this case the Stellenbosch Divisional Council— before one has afforded them an opportunity to furnish an adequate reply to the charge being made against them. I am disappointed, for the hon. member for Green Point is one of the hon. members of the Opposition for whom I have always had an exceptionally high regard. That is why I am sorry he committed an injustice here—not against me; my shoulders are broad—but against a Council and against people who are unable to defend themselves.

The hon. member for Green Point should have taken the trouble which any reasonable person would have taken to have consulted the Stellenbosch Divisional Council first before accusing them, particularly after he had seen how the Press had misled him last week, and after I had, in all fondness, warned him against this repeatedly. That is why I think it is deplorable and a great pity that he should have done something like this again.

†I now want to return to my normal, calm manner in dealing with these matters. I think the hon. member for Green Point, myself and all other hon. members who are interested in this debate, share one regret, namely that we only have 2hours for this discussion. It is an interesting subject, and I hope it will continue on other suitable occasions, e.g. during the discussion of my Vote. I wish I had time to deal with hon. members individually, and they must forgive me for not being able to do so. If they have any particular questions, they can come and discuss them with me or they can table them.

In the little time left to me, I should like to deal with the motion in the light of a very interesting remark made by the hon. member for Berea. He said it was regrettable that we had taken such a long time to do necessary things and that he had to plead with us to do other necessary things, or words to that effect. I want to deal with it in the same spirit and want to point out immediately that there is not a single item in the motion of the hon. member for Green Point that has not been attended to by the Government, in some instances years before today when, for the first time, the Opposition woke up to the necessity for certain matters.

*I want to discuss the aspects of his motion one by one. The hon. member referred to population growth and said that we should be mindful of it. But we are thoroughly aware of it; not only do we examine the census figures, but we also receive projections from experts, which we then submit to the Human Sciences Research Council so that they may check them. We also issue warnings in this House against the population explosion, and I can recall pointing out to this House myself that by the end of the century, within the next 25 to 30 years, we would have to build as many houses for the population of South Africa as had been built since the days of Jan van Riebeeck. We are therefore thoroughly aware of this matter, and are acting accordingly. The hon. member said that we should give attention to the process of the urbanization of the rural population, and that we should face up to the consequences of this process. We are doing so, and I shall indicate in a moment that we are breaking all records as far as the provision of accommodation is concerned. We are also taking steps, steps which according to experts throughout the world, including the UNO, constitute the only ultimate solution to the problem. We are also taking steps to slow down this phenomenon of haphazard urbanization as far as possible by, on the one hand, building houses and, on the other, preventing the process of urbanization from getting out of hand.

The hon. member also said that we should do something to stimulate the building industry during the present time of crisis. As I can prove once again, we are thoroughly aware of this. We are very thoroughly aware that the building industry should be stimulated, not only so as to provide houses, but also so as to provide work for our people and in that way, if possible, to stimulate the economy as soon as it is possible to do so. I just want to point out a few facts of which we took cognizance long before this motion was introduced. We calculated that for every R1 million which one spent on housing, one provided twice as many people with work as would have been the case if one had spent R1 million on the construction of roads, for example. We also gave attention to the fact that large-scale construction work is less inflationary than most other forms of economic activities which can be stimulated. We also gave attention to the fact that when one builds many houses, a minimum of foreign exchange is required to stimulate the economy on a large-scale. We also gave attention to the fact that one can stimulate the building programme to the greatest extent in those areas where unemployment constitutes the greatest danger, and that is in the major cities. We realized that we could alleviate unemployment to the greatest extent by means of the building industry, for this industry is labour intensive and one achieves the highest level of employment for the money one spends. Then the hon. member asked us—I am dealing with his motion almost word for word—to launch an emergency housing programme immediately. The date today is the 18th of February 1977. The Government began an emergency housing programme as long ago as 1973. As far as Coloureds are concerned, the programme was launched in 1973, and hon. members know how spectacular the results have been. Last year, after we had solved the dolomite problems in Lenasia in the Transvaal, I requested that we treat the question of Indian housing in the Transvaal with the same urgency as was done with Coloured housing in the Western Cape. As far as Natal is concerned—as the figures which I have will indicate—we have been aware of the problem for a long time now and it is planned to build 4 500 houses in only one of the major Indian townships in Durban each year.

So far, therefore, I have found nothing in the motion of the hon. member for Green Point which this Government and its predecessors had not done a long time ago.

However, let us cast a quick glance at what we have achieved with these plans which I mentioned. I shall begin with Coloured housing, and wish I had more time. While I am dealing with the question of Coloured housing I shall also give attention to the other point raised by the hon. member, when he said that we should create communities with the necessary social facilities. I shall deal with these two aspects simultaneously. Here in the Cape area we are working on the Atlantis project for Coloureds. To carry out that project, an area of 11 612 ha was purchased for Coloured housing. We estimate the population of Atlantis by the year 2010 at 500 000. This is a very recent scheme, but 500 houses have ready been built, or are still under construction, and at present a further 1 353 houses have already been approved for construction. As far as community facilities are concerned, two schools are already under construction and a day hospital and a clinic have already been completed. In addition sports facilities have been provided to a considerable extent, and a community hall is under construction. Facilities for campers and for caravans, as well as swimming facilities, have been provided at the nearby Silwerstroom beach.

Moreover there is also the Mitchell’s Plain scheme. This is also part of the urgent housing programme the hon. member has asked us to institute, but which has already been in progress for a long time. The Mitchell’s Plain project covers an area of more than 3 000 ha and will eventually have a population of more than a quarter million people. In December 1976 1 193 houses had already been completed, and on 31 December last year 6 500 houses were under construction. At that date a total of 7 083 houses had already been approved, and recently tenders were called for the construction of a further 4 960 houses, with which a start will soon be made. I hope to be able to make a very interesting announcement in this regard in the near future, an announcement which will make the warm heart of my hon. friend from Green Point even happier. At Mitchell’s Plain considerable progress has been made with the construction of roads and sports fields and the planting of trees. A total of ten schools, of which some have already been completed, was under construction in the first quarter of 1977. A business centre constructed by the city council is already in operation, and another two business centres are at present being planned by the Coloured Development Corporation.

Then we come to Johannesburg, to the Ennerdale complex for Coloureds, which covers an area of 6 000 ha and which will have a population of a 100 000 by the year 2000 and 250 000 by the year 2030. In Extension No. 1, 1 175 residential sites have already been planned. One-third of these are being sold for self-building purposes. At Extension No. 2, planning makes provision for another 3 000 to 4 000 families. If hon. members take into consideration that the greatest portion of Ennerdale was only proclaimed in June 1976, it will become apparent what rapid progress is being made.

In Durban we are working on major housing schemes for Coloureds at Newlands East and at Mariann Hill. On 31 December 1976 almost 2 000 houses were already under construction and the construction of a further 1 065 had been approved. So much for our three most important cities. But I do not want to leave it at that …

Mr. Speaker, may I ask the hon. the Minister a question?

No, not today.

*Then I come to the Indians. I can give hon. members a great deal of information on Lenasia, after the long delay—which I regret, but which was the result of dolomite problems. These problems have now been solved, however, thanks to the Geophysical Survey Division, and we are now proceeding with building operations, and I have every confidence that we will soon be able to make up that leeway. Apart from Lenasia, we also have land at Lawley/Grasmere now, where we will be able to make provision for 35 000 Indian families and 25 000 Coloured families in new, pleasant townships, townships which will be a surprise to us all. Good progress is being made with the planning in that regard. These are achievements which no one will be able to deny; these are realities.

I want to sum up briefly and conclude my speech with information which hon. members will find useful, for I think that this matter is so important, and affects the whole of South Africa so intimately, that it is necessary for all of us to have easily available and easily reproducible figures so that hon. members and I can do what we do not do enough together, and that is to boast a little with the achievements of South Africa. I am not asking that my achievements be boasted of, for the foundations were laid by my predecessors. I am asking however, that we should occasionally boast, in the name of South Africa, of the achievements of our country, and here I am now able to enumerate these achievements for hon. members.

†Mr. Speaker, you will remember that when we spoke about it last year, I mentioned that in the years from 1920, when the Housing Commission was established, to the year 1960, 32 000 houses were built by the Government agencies, an average of 800 per year. In the 10 years from 1962 to 1971, 15 700 houses were built, an average of 1 570 houses per year. The rate of construction during this period was therefore twice that during the 40 years from 1920 to 1960. However, let us take a further look at the progress made. Between the years 1962 and 1971 an average of 1 570 houses per year were constructed, but in the five years from 1972 to 1976—including the figures for 1976—a total of 100 291 houses were built, an average of 20 200 a year in comparison with the average of 800 per year up to 1960. Let us, however, take only the year 1976. I think that is a good basis on which to judge our present position. In that one year we built, not 800 houses or 1 570 houses, but 26 080 houses. That was the number of houses completed, but in the year 1976 there were another 18 924 houses—let us call it 19 000—under construction. What is interesting is the fact that these figures which I have given hon. members indicate that a large number of houses, out of the total number provided in South Africa, are constructed as the result of the efforts of the State and the local authorities financed by the State. I say this because I have figures here to show that for the last five years, in the case of Whites, 13,4% of all houses built were built by the Government and Government agencies. Form the Asians 64% of all houses built were built by the Government and its agencies, while for Coloureds the figure is 82,5%.

*Let us now consider the achievement in regard to the Coloureds as an example. From 1920 to 1960 32 000 houses were built. In 1976 18 000 houses were completed for Coloureds alone, with a further 12 000 under construction, i.e. 30 000 completed and under construction, therefore the same number as the total built in the 40 years from 1920 to 1960. Is there no one on the opposite side with sufficient South Africanism to agree with me that we as South Africans may boast a little of this achievement? In the 10 years from 1962 to 1971 a total of 86 700 houses were built, an average of 8 700 houses per year. In the five years from 1972 to 1976 a total of 61 000 houses were built for Coloureds, an average of 12 300 per year, and in 1976 alone a total of 18 000 were completed, with 12 000 under construction. In other words, 30 000 houses were built for Coloureds. Surely one cannot close one’s mind, one’s insight and one’s emotions to such an achievement and still call oneself a South African! These particulars not only create an image of what has been done during the past five years in the field of housing with State assistance, they also emphasize at the same time the magnitude of the task awaiting us, a task which is growing in momentum as a result of the population increase and industrial and other development at specific points. The Department of Community Development and local authorities—of this I can assure hon. members in this House—will continue to meet their housing responsibilities to the best of their ability, as available funds permit. Mr. Speaker, if time permits, I should now like to reply to a question asked by the hon. member for Rondebosch.

Order! I am sorry, but the time allowed for the discussion of the motion of the hon. member for Green Point has already expired.

Business interrupted in accordance with Standing Order No. 34 and motion and amendments lapsed.