WEDNESDAY, 17 MAY 2000 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 15:02.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

QUESTIONS AND REPLIES - see that book.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr S P MAKWETLA: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the meteoric rise of HIV infections in our country;

(2) believes that all South Africans are genuinely concerned about this killer disease;

(3) submits that HIV/Aids awareness will not be promoted by intimidating public representatives and office bearers to undergo public tests, but by destigmatising HIV/Aids and creating an atmosphere which is friendly and compassionate in respect of people living with HIV/Aids;

(4) recognises that such conditions will encourage people to undergo voluntary tests;

(5) recognises that undergoing an HIV/Aids test is a sensitive and personal decision which should be treated with confidentiality;

(6) expresses concern about the proliferation of public gimmicks which may not meaningfully advance the campaign against Aids; and

(7) calls on political parties to be seized with carefully thought out interventions which can make a difference.

[Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms M SMUTS: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  today is World Telecommunications Day;

   (b)  the information and telecommunications revolution in our day is
       the economic equivalent of the Industrial Revolution of old; and

   (c)  South Africa is well placed to establish itself on the right
       side of the digital divide;

(2) expresses its concern at the fact that Government is not using such avenues as are available to it to liberalise the value-added network services field; and

(3) urges the Minister, under section 40 of the Telecommunications Act, to fix dates upon which Telkom’s monopoly will end on -

   (a)  facility provision;

   (b)  voice services; and

   (c)  the cession or subletting of facilities, in respect of value-
       added network services.

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes that the student unrest at the University of Durban-Westville has resulted in the death of one student and possibly that of another;

(2) expresses its grief at this loss and commiserates with the families who have sustained this loss;

(3) denounces violent protest in a country in which democracy prevails and negotiation has become a world-recognised trademark of our people;

(4) calls on all parties to return to active negotiation; and

(5) urges all students to recognise that no university can become a centre of excellence if it is continually constrained by financial considerations and if mid-term disturbances lead to disruption of the academic calendar and the closure of the university in order to protect life and property.

Mr M M Z DYANI: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the Minister of Labour, Membathisi Mdladlana, yesterday launched
       a draft code to ensure that workers with HIV are not
       discriminated against in the workplace; and

   (b)  a joint committee of the National Employment, Development and
       Labour Council's labour market chamber and the Commission for
       Employment Equity will consider public comments and advise the
       Minister on the final contents of the code; and

(2) calls on the department to proceed with its plans to create a nondiscriminatory environment for people living with HIV in the workplace.

[Applause.]

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move:

That the House -

(1) notes that an election date has been finalised for Zimbabwe; (2) expresses its concern about the timescales provided for, given that the delimitation of constituencies has not been completed;

(3) notes that the Democratic Union of Africa, of which the New NP is a member, will send a 12-country fact-finding mission to Zimbabwe; and

(4) notes that the report of the Democratic Union of Africa will be submitted to more than 70 political parties around the world.

[Interjections.]

Mr M N RAMODIKE: Chairperson, I give notice that at the next sitting of the House I will move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) extends sincere condolences to the families and friends of the miners who died in the tragic Beatrix mining accident;

(2) expresses concern regarding mine safety, acknowledging that, in spite of the successes achieved in the past few years, recent events indicate that mining accidents are on the increase again;

(3) calls on the Government to reconsider the legislation governing mine safety, since the myriad of safety regulations and penalties are not enough of a deterrent and enforcement is lacking;

(4) allows the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy an opportunity to give serious attention to this matter; and

(5) calls on the Minister of Minerals and Energy to set aside a greater portion of her budget for mine safety inspections.

Mr G B MAGWANISHE: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that SA Airways has agreed to an out-of-court settlement in which it will pay R100 000 to a job applicant who was refused employment because he tested HIV-positive during pre-employment testing;

(2) welcomes the statement by SAA’s lawyers that the settlement was an implicit admission that the exclusion of the man on the grounds of his HIV status was unjustified; and

(3) calls on prospective employers to obey the letter and spirit of the Employment Equity Act, and not to attempt to use HIV status as a reason for exclusion from employment, but rather to monitor and support those employees who have been diagnosed with the disease, as long as they are able to execute their duties.

[Applause.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UCDP:

That the House -

(1) notes with shock how some heavyweights of the ANC in the North West province are pillaging the provincial coffers by engaging in stark nepotism, evasion of tax payment and self-enrichment at the expense of the public;

(2) challenges Premier Popo Molefe to rise to the occasion and show resolve by releasing the long-awaited results of the Moseneke and Gobodo commissions of inquiry;

(3) requests the premier to remind his constituency that this country operates on the Batho Pele premise and not on rona fela'' or ourselves only’’; and

(4) requests that he take decisive action against those implicated in the alleged corruption throughout the province and in the provincial Department of Local Government, Planning and Housing in particular.

[Interjections.]

Prof S S RIPINGA: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the killing of a 23-year-old student at the University of Durban-
       Westville; and

   (b)  the need for students, management and the police to refrain from
       actions that might lead to violent confrontation;

(2) recognises that the Ministry of Education has deployed two officials to investigate the crisis;

(3) calls on management, students and parents to negotiate a peaceful and amicable resolution to the conflict;

(4) sends its deepest sympathy to the bereaved family; and (5) wishes injured students a speedy recovery.

[Applause.]

Ms R TALJAARD: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House -

(1) notes the recent passage of the African Growth and Opportunity Act in the United States which will form an important plank in the US’s policy on Africa;

(2) further notes that this legislation poses both opportunities and challenges, and that it contains specific provisions dealing with democracy and good governance which the international investor community considers a prerequisite for continued foreign direct investment flows and stable trade relations;

(3) further notes that President Mbeki will be addressing a joint sitting of the US Senate and Congress during his upcoming state visit to the United States; and (4) calls on -

   (a)  the President to state South Africa's support for the African
       Growth and Opportunity Act and to reassure our trading partners
       of a stable outlook for the SADC region; and

   (b)  the Departments of Trade and Industry and of Foreign Affairs to
       forge a dynamic partnership to ensure that South Africa
       maximises the opportunities flowing from the African Growth and
       Opportunity Act by linking South African exporters to targeted
       markets and business opportunities in the US.

Mr M F CASSIM: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  South Africa has on its Statute Book some of the most impressive
       and progressive legislation, built up in a short period of six
       years; and

   (b)  constitutionality has become the centre point for the operation,
       growth and development of our society;

(2) regards it as totally unconscionable for court officials to undermine this great achievement by limiting the sittings of our courts to an average of three and a half hours per day, leading to enormous bottlenecks, delays and even a miscarriage of justice; and

(3) calls upon the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development and supports him to ensure that the anomalous situation obtaining in our courts is monitored on a day-by-day basis with a view to dealing with indiscipline and all of the other facts which impede the judiciary …

[Time expired.]

Mr N N KEKANA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  today, 17 May, is World Telecommunications Day;

   (b)  the telecommunications sector is the fastest growing sector
       globally; and

   (c)  the South African telecommunications sector has undergone
       dramatic changes in the past five years and that Telkom is at
       the forefront of this revolution;

(2) acknowledges that telecommunications is the indispensable back-bone of the reconstruction and development of our country;

(3) recognises that new technologies have the potential to improve the quality of life of our people;

(4) calls on national and international telecommunications bodies to continue to narrow the gap between technology-rich and technology- poor countries; and

(5) urges Telkom to continue to improve the quality and level of service delivery, especially to previously disadvantaged communities.

[Applause.]

Adv A H GAUM: Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die Nuwe NP sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) die dood van ‘n student van die Universiteit van Durban-Westville betreur en versoek dat die ondersoek van die polisie en die Departement van Onderwys na die omstandighede van die student se dood so gou moontlik afgehandel word;

(2) die studente veroordeel wat hulle die afgelope tyd gereeld tot geweld op kampusse gewend het en vir die chaos by sommige van ons universiteite verantwoordelik is;

(3) van oordeel is dat hierdie chaos en voorvalle van geweld kontraproduktief is vir die skep van ‘n onderrig- en leerkultuur by Suid-Afrikaanse universiteite; en

 4) Minister Kader Asmal versoek om dringend 'n taakspan aan te stel om
    die geweldskultuur by sekere kampusse te ondersoek en aanbevelings
    oor die beëindiging daarvan te doen. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Adv A H GAUM: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) deplores the death of a student at the University of Durban-Westville and requests that the investigation by the police and the Department of Education into the circumstances surrounding the student’s death be finalised as soon as possible; (2) condemns the students who have in recent times regularly resorted to violence on campuses and are responsible for the chaos at some of our universities;

(3) is of the opinion that such chaos and incidents of violence are counterproductive to the creation of a culture of teaching and learning at South African universities; and

(4) urgently requests Minister Kader Asmal to appoint a task team to investigate the culture of violence on certain campuses and to make recommendations as regards the termination thereof.]

Mr C T FROLICK: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) notes the reported statements of the new chief executive officer of Spoornet, Zandile Jakavula, regarding the financial state of the state utility; (2) welcomes his announcements predicting a profit for the coming year, especially in the light of the unexpected loss shown in the previous financial year;

(3) congratulates the CEO of Spoornet on his commitment to transforming Spoornet into a viable business and to move away from its loss-making image;

(4) commends Mr Jakavula and his team for their restructuring efforts whilst simultaneously succeeding in preserving thousands of jobs through innovative thinking; and

(5) urges all other parastatals in the Department of Public Enterprises to follow this example, proving that it is possible to transform entities into viable businesses to the benefit of the parastatals, the economy and the workers.

Mrs B TINTO: Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the current crisis in public transport in the Western Cape;

(2) further notes that some taxi drivers have resorted to killing, harassment and intimidation of bus drivers and commuters;

(3) believes that violence and criminal behaviour by taxi operators cannot be tolerated any longer;

(4) believes that a negotiated solution can be arrived at without resorting to lawlessness and anarchy; and

(5) calls on the government of the Western Cape to adopt an attitude of zero tolerance to the violent and criminal behaviour of some taxi operators.

[Applause.]

     ANNOUNCEMENT OF DATE OF ZIMBABWEAN PARLIAMENTARY ELECTIONS

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the coming Zimbabwean parliamentary elections that are to take
       place on 24 to 25 June 2000; and

   (b)  that the South African Parliament will be sending a delegation
       to observe these elections;

(2) believes that this will be a significant contribution by our Parliament to the success of these elections;

(3) wishes the delegation good luck in its mission; and

(4) expresses the hope that after the completion of its mission the delegation will give a full report to this House on the Zimbabwean elections.

Agreed to.

[Applause.] APPOINTMENT OF MR CYRIL RAMAPHOSA TO INSPECTION TEAM IN IRELAND

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the appointment of Mr Cyril Ramaphosa by British Prime Minister,
       Mr Tony Blair, to be part of a team that will inspect Irish
       Republican Army secret weapons; and

   (b)  that inspection constitutes a major breakthrough in the peaceful
       resolution of the conflict in Ireland; and

(2) believes that the appointment of Mr Cyril Ramaphosa confirms the support and confidence the international community has in the manner in which we South Africans resolved our own problems; and

(3) wishes Mr Cyril Ramaphosa good luck with his new mission.

Agreed to.

[Applause.]

            ROAD ACCIDENT FUND COMMISSION AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

Order disposed of without debate.

Bill read a second time.

     REMUNERATION OF PUBLIC OFFICE BEARERS SECOND AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

Order disposed of without debate.

Bill read a second time. NATIONAL HOUSE OF TRADITIONAL LEADERS AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

Order disposed of without debate.

Bill read a second time.

  CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE MEMBERS'
       LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS AND SPECIAL PETITIONS - PETITION

Order disposed of without debate.

Report adopted.

The House adjourned at 17:21. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister for Intelligence on 18 April 2000 submitted a draft
     of the General Intelligence Law Amendment Bill, 2000, and the
     memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to
     the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159.


 (2)    The Minister of Home Affairs on 17 May 2000 submitted a draft of
     the Identification Amendment Bill, 2000, and the memorandum
     explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to the Speaker
     and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been
     referred by the Speaker and the Chairperson to the Portfolio
     Committee on Home Affairs and the Select Committee on Social
     Services, respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

 (3)    The following Bill was introduced in the National Assembly on 17
     May 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:
     (i)     Identification Amendment Bill [B 33 - 2000] (National
          Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs -
          National Assembly) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
          notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No
          21079 of 7 April 2000.]

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following changes have been made to the membership of Joint
     Committees, viz:


     Defence:

     Discharged: Selfe, J.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

The following changes have been made to the membership of Portfolio
 Committees, viz:


 Defence:
 Discharged: Selfe, J.

 Public Service and Administration:

 Appointed: Zulu, N E.
 Discharged: Ndabandaba, L B G.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Transport on the National Land Transport Transition Bill [B 5B - 2000] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76), dated 17 May 2000:

   The Portfolio Committee on Transport, having National Land Transport Transition Bill considered the subject of the [B 5B - 2000] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76), referred to it and classified by the JTM as a section 76 Bill, reports the Bill without amendment.