TUESDAY, 6 JUNE 2000 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 09:05.

The Chairperson of Committees took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                        MOTION OF CONDOLENCE

                       (The late Mr T S Khoza)

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the House - (1) notes the premature death of the Honourable Themba Khoza on Sunday, 28 May 2000;

(2) recognises the valuable contribution that he -

   (a)  as a dedicated Member of Parliament, made to our first
       democratic Parliament; and

   (b)  as Leader of the IFP in Gauteng, made to that province;

(3) believes that he served the people of South Africa with selfless dedication;

(4) expresses its sincerest condolences to the wife, children, family, friends and supporters of the deceased; and

(5) wishes that they be filled with strength and fortitude in their time of sadness.

Hamba kahle, Themba.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, Themba Khoza was born in the poor rural areas near Eshowe. He was recruited by the IFP when a tribal meeting was held to tell the villagers of the new organisation. He rose within the ranks of his party and was deployed to the then Transvaal. His determination to raise the profile of the party soon led him to rise to prominence in the political landscape of our country.

Themba Khoza’s political life epitomises different phases of political developments in our country. On the one hand, his life reminds us of our painful past, the nightmare years of urban massacres, rural assassinations, train killings, rolling violence between township residents and hostel dwellers. His life reminds us of the violence unleashed by the apartheid security establishment and Third Force to derail the process of change. It was this violence that the NP government dubbed ``black-on-black’’ violence, using it in a manner that sought to derail our liberation struggle and forcing a political settlement that would perpetuate white domination.

His life also reminds us of the determination of our people to win their liberation. The death of Mr Themba Khoza, a member of this House, comes at a time when both the ANC and the IFP, in the true spirit of reconciliation, have moved closer than ever before in joint programmes to bring peace to the province of KwaZulu-Natal.

The ANC once again expresses a sense of grief at the death of this IFP leader. We extend our condolences to the IFP and to the Khoza family. [Applause.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, the DP fully supports the motion as it appears on the Order Paper and we also endorse the views and the words expressed by the Chief Whip of the ANC. It is always a very sad moment when a colleague and a parliamentarian passes away, and it is a timely reminder to us of our own vulnerability and our own mortality.

Themba Khoza was well known to many of us in the DP. He was a likeable person, with a good sense of humour and we certainly got on well with him. However, apart from this, he was a shrewd politician and a good tactician and there is no doubt that, while his own party will miss him for these qualities, we, too, will miss our own discourses with him. They were always constructive and always entertaining.

The DP offers sincere condolences to his family. Themba will be sorely missed by them and by his friends, but we also want to extend our condolences to his party, the IFP, who, through his untimely death, have lost a very important member and stalwart.

Mr A BLAAS: Chairperson, the New NP also supports this motion and endorses what has been said so far. It is with sadness that we learnt of the passing on of our friend and colleague Themba Khoza at the youthful age of 41. He was but in the prime of his life, and we are sure that there were still a lot of things he wanted to do, and still could do.

According to two books on politics, Themba traces his interest in politics to the Zulu wars against British imperialism. His great-grandfather fought in the Battle of Isandlwana in 1879 when the Zulu warriors defeated the British army. Themba only became involved in politics in 1975 when he joined the Inkatha Youth Brigade.

He opened the IFP organisational office in the Transvaal in January 1990. Themba made rapid progress and was already appointed to the IFP’s top decision-making body, the central committee, in 1991. After the signing of the National Peace Accord in 1991, he became active as a peacemaker. He served on the National Peace Committee and the local dispute resolution Committee in Soweto.

Since 1994 he, of course, served as one of our colleagues in this House. Themba was a patriot who believed passionately in the principles, policies and directions of his party. He practised politics with dedication and commitment. He was a loyal person who cared deeply for those he represented and respected. The New NP expresses our deepest sympathy to his wife, children and other family, and to his friends. Our condolences also go to the leader and members of the IFP.

Lala ngokuthula, Themba. [Rest in peace, Themba.]

Mr T ABRAHAMS: Mr Chairman, the UDM endorses the condolences expressed by the parties that have spoken. In the very short space of time - that we have been here, Themba Khoza had quite remarkable relationships with many of our members. The early death of any South African is an unwelcome phenomenon. To those who constitute this House of Assembly, the passing on of a member of this institution is a reminder of our own vulnerability. Hence, we endorse the sentiments expressed. The UDM extends its condolences to the family of the late Mr Themba Khoza and also to the IFP.

Adv Z L MADASA: Mr Chairperson, the ACDP supports the motion and wishes to extend its condolences to the IFP and to Mr Khoza’s family, especially his wife.

Dr C P MULDER: Mr Chairperson, Thembinkosi Samson Khoza was born on 17 May 1959 in Eshowe, Zululand. At the time of his death he was only 41 years old. Themba Khoza moved to Johannesburg in search of employment in 1983. In January 1990 he opened the first organisational office of Inkatha in Johannesburg. At the same time, he established an employment agency under the auspices of the Inkatha youth project.

As already mentioned, Themba Khoza traced his political awareness to his childhood, which was filled with stories about the victorious Battle of Isandlwana in which the Zulu forces defeated the British. His mother was a descendant of the Zulu royal family. Themba Khoza maintained that the youth should become the uniting force in Inkatha. In 1989 he was nominated the Transvaal youth leader, and in 1991 he was voted onto the central committee of the IFP. In the general election of April 1994 Themba Khoza was elected to Parliament. According to his curriculum vitae, he was a devout Christian and an active member of the Rhema Church.

Die VF kan hom derhalwe volkome vereenselwig met die voorstel wat vandag voor die Huis dien. Ons betuig daarom graag ons opregte meegevoel en simpatie aan Themba Khoza se familie, sowel as aan die IVP wat ‘n kollega verloor het. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Consequently, the FF can totally identify itself with the motion before the House today. We would therefore like to express our condolence and sympathy to Themba Khoza’s family, as well as to the IFP who have lost a colleague.]

Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Mr Chairperson, on behalf of the UCDP leadership, members and supporters, I wish to take this opportunity to express our deepest sympathy and extend our condolences to the family of Mr Themba Khoza. We are still shocked by the untimely passing of the IFP Gauteng leader. His death was never expected at this point in time, but, nevertheless, we should accept his death as the will of the Father, the Creator and the Almighty.

To Dr Mangosuthu Buthelezi, and the IFP leadership in general, and to members and supporters, we share their loss of a man loved and valued most as a true leader of their party. To us, the UCDP, we do not express this to score political points, nor to use this parliamentary platform to say something about this former hon member of Parliament, because we are expected to do so. Rather, it is a sincere expression of feelings of loss for a man who is now seen as a peace seeker, who is far from the Themba Khoza we knew as portrayed in the past during the democratisation process of South Africa.

Those who hated him chose to call him a warlord, while those who loved him saw him simply as a committed and loyal leader ready to defend what he valued most - the IFP and its policies. Themba was a fearless soldier until God called his name. The IFP Gauteng leader Humphrey Ndlovu said: Themba is not dead. Uwile. [He has fallen.] His spirit will live amongst us to continue to fight for peace in building South Africa.

Lala ngoxolo, Themba. Lala kahle, Khoza. [Rest in peace, Themba. Rest in peace, Khoza.]

Dr S E M PHEKO: Mr Chairman, at the height of the violence in this country, which was dubbed black-on-black violence, I was the representative of the liberation movement at the United Nations headquarters in New York.

In July 1992 I successfully persuaded the chairman of the special committee against apartheid to call on the Security Council to debate the then South African situation with a view to stopping the genocidal violence which, according to my information, was being carried out by Buffalo Battalion 32, Koevoet, Selous Scouts, Renamo and by the Askaris in this country. It was at about this time that I read about Mr Themba Khoza.

Some time after returning from my mission at the UN I met him for the first time at the high court in Johannesburg. After I was introduced to him, I said to him: ``I thought you were a monster with a long tail and two horns. How did a handsome man like you, who is so African, get the image of a warlord?’’ He laughed. I can therefore say without any fear of contradiction that the Themba Khoza of the media and of his political enemies was not the same Khoza that I knew.

One wonders if the IFP would still be around if it had not had a cadre like Themba Khoza who defended his right to be the IFP. It is tragic that Themba Khoza died surrounded by a controversy that was never proved in a court of law. The PAC sends its condolences to his wife, children, the entire family of the hon Themba Khoza, and to the IFP leadership and members.

I-PAC, umbutho wama-Afrika, ithi phumula ngokuthula mfo kaKhoza. Ubuyinsizwa phakathi kwezinsizwa. Sizokukhumbula njengeqhawe. [As an organisation of African people, the PAC says rest in peace, you, the son of Khoza. You were a hero among men. We will remember you as a hero.]

Re a o dumedisa. O re dumedisetse ho Morena Shaka, o mo jwetse hore lefatshe la rona ha le so kgutle. [We greet you. Convey our greetings to King Shaka, and tell him that our country is not yet returned to us.]

Tiko ra hina. [Our country.]

Mr C AUCAMP: Mr Chairperson, on behalf of the AEB I honour the memory of the late Themba Khoza who left us at the young age of 41. We honour him as a dedicated member of Parliament and as a leader who served his people with dedication. We express our sincerest condolences to his wife and children. May the God in whom he believed console them, his leader, Dr Buthelezi, and his colleagues in the IFP with the comfort of his work and spirit. His early death reminds us all that this life is but a short and temporary station on the way to eternity. The AEB supports the motion wholeheartedly.

Mna M A MANGENA: Modulasetulo, re le ba lekgotla la Azapo, tsamaišana le tšhišinyo ye e lego gona mo. Re lliša ba lapa la ga Khoza le lekgotla la IFP ge ba lahlegetšwe ka mokgwa woo ba lahlegetšwego ka gona. Ba lahlegetšwe ke moetapele yoo e bego a sale o mofsa, yoo e lego gore mošomo o a bego a ka o direla ba lapa la gagwe le ba IFP, o be o sa le montši pele ga gagwe. Re a tseba gore Themba Khoza o be a hlakahlakane le dilo tšeo e lego gore ga di bose mo bophelong bja rena, feela seo a lego sona ke seo se bontšhago gore rena bjale ka setšhaba mo historing ya rena ya go lwela tokollo re be re le bjang. O re gopotša gore re be re bolayana ka borena, re le gare re re re lwela tolologo. Re re ge a hlokafetše bjale a na le mengwa e 41, moo e lego gore bana ba gagwe e sa le ba bannyane, le mošomo woo a bego a ka o direla IFP o be o sa le o montši, re re lehu ke lehodu leo e lego gore le ba utsweditše selo sa bona se blohlokwa. Feela re re, le ge le sa lebale, nke le amogele, le tle le kgone go tšwela pele. Ga a robale ka kgotso. (Translation of Sepedi speech follows.)

[Mr M A MANGENA: Chairperson, we in Azapo align ourselves with this motion. We convey our condolences to Mr Khoza’s family and the IFP for the loss they have suffered. They have been robbed of a young leader whose work for his family and the IFP was not yet finished. We know that Themba Khoza was alleged to have been involved in activities that embittered us, but that helped to reveal the nature of our history as a nation at the height of the political struggle in this country. His death reminds us that we were then killing one another, and claiming to be fighting for freedom.

Because he died at the age of only 41, his children are still young, and he still had to perform a great deal of work for the IFP, we would say that death has robbed them of an asset. However, we would like to tell everyone that although it is difficult to forget, they should accept what has happened so that they can start afresh. May his soul rest in peace!] Rev K M ZONDI: Mr Chairperson, the death of our colleague, friend and comrade Themba Khoza has, indeed, been a tragic affair to the IFP. It is a sad loss that will not be easy to overcome. However, the greatest tragedy and sense of loss is that which is felt by his family, who have described it as a great blow and one of the darkest hours in their lives.

Themba Khoza was born into a society in which he would enjoy no basic dignity of being a human being. In life, he rose to a leadership position, where he was called upon to lead the poorest of the poor, the despised and the destitute in very undignified circumstances. He knew no dignity. He exercised his leadership during the darkest hours of the history of our struggle for liberation, where a black had to die in the hands of another black, where an African had to die at the hands of another African and where the oppressed had to die at the hands of another oppressed.

It is true that, at the time of his death, Themba was in the forefront of the struggle to restore peace, especially in the province of Gauteng, where he exercised his leadership in efforts which were spearheaded by the ANC- IFP ten-a-side committee in that province.

We will miss Themba, and we can only wish him to rest in peace; ironically, because in the world into which he was born, he enjoyed no peace. We hope that, in the hands of his Maker, he will finally find peace.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon members, I wish to associate myself and all presiding officers with the motion of condolence. We also wish the family strength to bear their loss, and we appreciate that this is also a great loss for both the IFP and Parliament. May the soul of Themba rest in peace.

Motion agreed to unanimously, all the members standing.

                    ALLOCATION OF SPEAKING TIMES

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Hon Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That, notwithstanding the provisions of Rule 106, the following times be allocated to parties for comment on today’s statement by the Minister of Minerals and Energy:

 African National Congress: 7 minutes; Democratic Party: 5 minutes;
 Inkatha Freedom Party: 4 minutes; New National Party: 4 minutes; United
 Democratic Movement: 3 minutes; all other parties: 2 minutes each.

Agreed to.

            COMPOSITION OF SA PARLIAMENTARY DELEGATION TO
                    OBSERVE ZIMBABWEAN ELECTIONS

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That, further to the resolution adopted on 17 May 2000 concerning the South African parliamentary delegation being sent to observe the Zimbabwean parliamentary elections, the House, subject to the concurrence of the National Council of Provinces, resolves that -

(1) the South African parliamentary delegation will comprise:

   ANC:Benjamin, J; Chikane, M M; Dyani, M M Z; Ebrahim, E I; Lobe, M C;
   Louw, S K; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Mpehle, M; Nel, A C; Taabe, T B
   (NCOP); Van der Merwe, S C; Yengeni, T S (Leader of delegation);

   DP: Farrow, S B; Maluleke, D K; McIntosh, G B D;

   IFP: Mpontshane, A M; Mzizi, M A;

   New NP: Schoeman, E A; Van Jaarsveld, A Z A; and

   ACDP: Dudley, C;

(2) the delegation is to observe the election campaign in the run-up to the elections, the casting of votes during the elections and subsequently the counting of the votes; and

(3) the delegation must, after the completion of its mission, present a full report to Parliament.

Agreed to.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 13 - Health:

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Chairperson and hon members, I rise to deliver this budget speech, mindful of the historical significance of addressing our nation at the dawn of the new century and a new millennium.

I am particularly conscious of the fact that millions of our citizens expect us, through our actions, to ensure that, indeed, this becomes an African century. I wish to thank the President and the Deputy President for affording me the opportunity to serve my country at this critical period.

My Cabinet colleagues have been a source of enduring strength, as have been those who died in the struggle for the realisation of an equitable and just system. There are too many to be counted. The challenge before us, as public representatives, is to ensure that we not only live up to the expectations of those who have put their faith in us but, indeed, lay a solid foundation that will earn us pride of place as worthy successors of the revolutionary giants who sacrificed to ensure that we stand today, as a free people, a beacon of hope in a troubled world, a ray of light in a continent that has seen too many a dark cloud.

Ours is a challenge to grasp every opportunity to shape events to advance equity and opportunity. We need to do so in the context of a people characterised by high levels of poverty, a tragic legacy of our recent past and against the background of a tragedy of enormous proportions brought by the HIV/Aids epidemic.

We ought to draw strength from the enormous achievements of the past six years. Our country is certainly a better place today than it was for the vast majority in the past. That a lot more still needs to be done, is just a measure of the enormity of the challenges we face. However, succeed, we will.

Let me, today, place on record our determination to forge ahead to advance the interests of our citizens, especially the most vulnerable, even if at times we have to take the consequences of interfering with the comfort zone of those who would rather have us believe that they were destined to lord it over us, and that any question of their motives is an act of betrayal.

Over the past year, we have seen health anchored firmly as a critical ingredient in the development agenda and as an important tool to fight poverty. Health issues are increasingly determining the economic success, or otherwise, of states by specifically influencing such initiatives as foreign direct investment. At the same time, health issues are taking centre stage as core elements of human security, as evidenced by the Security Council debate on HIV/Aids in January this year, and the recent pronouncements by the US administration.

As South Africans, we should take pride in having recognised these changes earlier than others. We need to intensify actions consistent with this approach, by investing in the health of our nation, as a necessary element of building a humane society, well-positioned to succeed in a competitive and interdependent global village.

As we sharpen our national response to our own specific challenges, let us also recognise the critical influence that those around us will have on our success or failure. After all, most of the diseases that account for most of our mortality and morbidity, have no respect for our geographical boundaries. In this regard, we continue to place a high premium on our co- operation with the member states of SADC.

We value the responsibility which we were given to co-ordinate the health sector in our region. We are proud of the effort we have put to ensure that there is a coherent framework for our co-operation. Last August, in Maputo, our President signed the SADC protocol on health. This important document is now before this House to facilitate the necessary ratification.

I appeal to members to discharge their duty, so that we continue to lead by force of example. I wish to indicate that, as of April this year, Botswana has ratified this protocol, whilst Namibia has concluded its internal consultations and was in the process of depositing the instrument with the secretariat in Gaberone. I believe that we have a duty to ensure that, when the heads of governments meet in Namibia in August, we, too, must have ratified the protocol.

Recently, between 15 and 20 May this year, we attended the 53rd session of the World Health Assembly. The partnership forged by the SADC Ministers truly enabled a stronger voice for our continent and the developing world. We are convinced that the strengthening of this partnership constitutes a solid platform and a launch pad for our sectoral contribution to the African renaissance.

Over the past few months, we have also participated in major initiatives on the African continent. Amongst these were the consultations in tackling malaria on the continent in Abuja, Nigeria, and the ministerial consultation in Burkina Faso on HIV/Aids on instruction from the OAU summit. Both of these meetings were successful and provided us with a platform for exchange of strategies and a common focus on the two major challenges facing our continent.

I am also happy to report that, in our last meeting held in Malawi in May this year, the health Ministers of SADC adopted an intersectoral, regional strategy on HIV/Aids. I have been charged with ensuring that all the relevant sectors in SADC adopt this strategy in advance of the summit in August. At the same meeting, we set in motion a process that should lead to a co-ordinated response to malaria. This latter process builds on the initiative we undertook together with Swaziland, Botswana, Mozambique and Zimbabwe.

As many of the members know, we also chair the sectoral committee of health Ministers of the Nonaligned Movement - a task that will end when our President hands over the overall chairmanship to Bangladesh in late 2001. Before then, we intend to approach Cabinet with a view to hosting the NAM health Ministers here in our country and to deliberate on strategic issues for this movement that will guide it well beyond the term of our chairpersonship. It is our intention to work closely with the parliamentary committee on health as we prepare for this important event.

Globalisation is a reality of our times, bringing with it fundamental changes in the landscape for international health. It confronts us with many challenges and yet, it also presents unparalleled opportunities for international action to confront the global public health challenges of our times. In this regard, we continue to strengthen bilateral ties with a number of countries. Recently, we signed a memorandum of understanding with Tunisia. Work has been completed to facilitate similar actions with Uganda and the People’s Republic of China during the second half of this year.

We shall continue to strengthen and actively participate in all relevant international institutions, particularly the World Health Organisation, and ensure the articulation and implementation of decisions that advance our developmental perspective and promote solidarity in action amongst the developing nations of the world. In this regard, I wish to pay tribute to my predecessor, the hon the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Dr Nkosazana Zuma, for placing our country in a firm leadership role during the 52nd World Health Assembly in 1999, in tackling two important global health challenges. This was through the adoption of a resolution that set in motion the process towards an international framework convention on tobacco control and the adoption of a revised drug strategy whose central objective was to improve access to pharmaceuticals for the vast majority in the developing world.

During this year’s assembly, we continued to ward off many sinister moves aimed at diluting these major achievements. This Parliament ought to take pride in the fact that the key underlying principles that inform this global agenda were nurtured in robust debates here in this House and finally passed in our laws in the form of the Medicines and Related Substances Control Amendment Act, Act 90 of 1997, and the Tobacco Products Control Amendment Act, Act 12 of 1999.

Whilst we continue to have a setback with regard to the implementation of the former law in our own country owing to the pending court case brought against us by the pharmaceutical industry, we are, however, proud that our brave and principled stand has generated such a strong current in the interest of the poor on our globe. We believe that this movement is now unstoppable and has to lead to the establishment of an international order that ensures that all of us do benefit from the advances in science and technology through ensuring that there is greater access by all to the drugs that are effective against diseases that continue to cause so much misery on our planet.

Let me, at this point, reiterate the view of the South African Government that we do not have the slightest interest in abrogating patent protection that is in line with our national laws and our international obligations. Ours is a country that honours its commitments and respects the rule of law. We also accept and recognise the need for those who put significant investments in research for newer and more appropriate modalities of treatment to get reasonable returns on their investment. As we continue to engage in these matters, we shall be guided by this perspective. Once again, we commit to stay on course while seeking any reasonable solution to our own difficulties.

The course that we have taken requires that we forge strong partnerships across the globe. These partnerships require patience and trust. Furthermore, we realise that the complex nature of problems that we face, will rarely require simple solutions to solve them. Consequently, there will be moments of advance and periods of demoralising setbacks. Equity in health is a core value that is central to the humane society we have committed to build.

Since my assumption of the position of Minister of Health, I have spent a lot of time trying to make a careful assessment of where our health reform agenda stands. This has entailed looking at the successes and failures thus far, in order to define the key strategic challenges confronting us during this second term of democratic government. This has led to the formulation of our strategic framework, the ten point plan, which will guide our actions over the next four years. This has been a collaborative effort between me and the nine MECs. Last November, we also had occasion to deliberate extensively on this strategy in a meeting attended by members of health committees across the political divide from the provincial legislatures, NCOP, National Assembly and representatives of Salga. I wish to record my sincere appreciation for the constructive manner in which these discussions were handled.

The message flowing from this assessment has been clear and unambiguous. We have done a lot over the past six years to improve access to health care for the previously marginalised majority of South Africans. Barriers to access have been removed. We were particularly pleased to note, in our recently released demographic and health survey, that, today, 94% of South African women attend antenatal care. We have also noted reports in different studies which show a consistent pattern of increased access to the services for the termination of pregnancy and the increasing availability of contraceptive services. But against these successes, we see the challenge posed by the still unacceptably high levels of maternal deaths, currently standing at 150 per 100 000 live births, and the differential access to termination of pregnancy services with rural women continuing to be disadvantaged.

In September 1999, together with my colleagues, the MECs for health, we reflected on these findings in the context of reviewing the report on confidential enquiries into maternal deaths covering the period up to December 1998. We adopted a series of recommendations which are now being implemented in the provinces, and amongst those are paying more attention to improvement of infrastructure, training and supervision of health personnel, formulation of clear national guidelines for antenatal care and ensuring consistent monitoring of implementation, finalisation and popularisation of contraceptive guidelines to tackle the problem of teenage pregnancies, and expansion of the termination of pregnancy services specifically to improve access for rural women.

We are also continuing work to address other important areas of women’s health, and amongst these are the following: We have finalised guidelines for screening of women for cervical cancer; we are working intersectorally to strengthen initiatives to curb violence against women; and we are taking steps to significantly extend the programme for training of forensic nurses to enhance our capacity to deal appropriately with victims of violence and sexual offences. Just a week ago, my department held an important consultation with other stakeholders on this subject. Greater attention will be attached to this area of work this year.

We are also contributing to ensuring that our country meets its obligations flowing particularly from Cairo and the Beijing platform of action. We recognise that our intervention will be sustainable if we succeed in mainstreaming gender in every facet of our activities. In this regard, my department has commenced to work on the development of a gender policy in health under the guidance of our newly appointed gender equity director. From this platform, I wish to stress the value we attach to this area of work, not only in dealing with issues of representivity - important as they may be - but in ensuring that the health services overall, and the budget in particular, are gender-friendly and sensitive.

Another area of success has been immunisation. In July last year we expanded our programme of immunisation with Hib vaccine. This is an effective intervention against childhood pneumonia and meningitis. Now this means that South African children get immunised for eight vaccine- preventable diseases.

We have also continued the previous trend with no polio cases being reported last year. We are well on the way to be certified polio-free this year. We continue to witness a marked reduction in the number of notified measles cases from 22 798 in 1992, to 1 070 in 1998 and 901 in 1999. This has been the result of both improved routine coverage and successful catch- up campaigns, from 76% in 1994 to 82% in 1998.

We are also progressing well with the implementation of integrated management of childhood illnesses. This is a concrete response to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and aims to holistically address the problems of children aged between two months and five years. All nine provinces have adopted this strategy and training is currently taking place. We envisage that every district will be implementing child care initiatives through this strategy by the year 2004.

As hon members would know, South Africa is a signatory to the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child and has established a national programme of action for children. We presented and defended our first country report in Geneva earlier this year and Minister Pahad led our delegation. Whilst we are proud of this landmark event, there are still major areas for concerted effort. These include child abuse and the care of orphans, especially in the light of the HIV/Aids epidemic. These areas are being tackled by the NPA steering committee. My department continues to play an important role in support of the NPA. Further details on these and other programmatic achievements and challenges are contained in our annual report and our strategic framework document.

The second unambiguous message for us is that there are problems with the quality of the care we are providing which require our firm and consistent attention. We say so in spite of an article that appeared on page 5 of the Business Day of Monday, 17 April 2000, entitled Government service with a smile''. This article which begins by saying,The perception that dealing with government departments is usually a frustrating experience, has been shaken by a survey conducted for Business Day by market research house, AC Nielsen MRA,’’ continues to say that ``of the 5,3 million people who came into contact with the health department, 4,6 million, that is 88%, claimed to be satisfied with the service’’.

Our Constitution obliges us to work tirelessly to build a caring and humane society. Central to this challenge is the restoration of humanity of all South Africans. It is our firm believe that the health sector has a particular contribution to make in this national project. This is particularly so when our society is still scarred by the ravages of apartheid discrimination and racism, and now confronts the difficult challenges posed by the HIV/Aids epidemic. As a nation, we need to adopt a policy of zero tolerance of inhuman and discriminatory practices, particularly against those vulnerable on account of social and economic status and/or circumstances of illness. I call upon all of us across party- political affiliation to join in a national effort to rid our health system and society of this scourge. Earlier this year I addressed this House on a related matter, namely the need to scrupulously adhere to the highest ethical standards in the conduct of clinical research. Let me stress once more that it is unacceptable that any of us should exploit those in our society who find themselves more vulnerable. Ours is a caring Government and we will not hesitate in defending the weak against the strong. This is an area on which there can be no compromise. I repeat the undertaking I made then that my department will soon finalise the necessary guidelines for ethical conduct of research in our country.

Last November we launched the Health and Patients Rights Charter as an instrument for co-operative interaction between the providers and the users of health care. Early this year we received encouraging reports of actions undertaken in provinces to ensure that this charter gets implemented and becomes a living document. The charge is now for all of us to enter the fray, mobilise our communities and ensure their ownership of the services which are, after all, theirs.

Our communities must be encouraged to participate actively in the governance structures of our institutions such as the health boards. I am raising this matter also with the representative organisations of health workers and our statutory councils. We shall ensure that, with these key stakeholders, we move together in the interest of our country and her people. We shall further advance our approach to improving quality by finalising a policy framework on quality in the second part of this year.

We also need to weed our health sector of all forms of mercenary conduct. The recent media disclosures of perverse behaviour in the form of kickbacks have left a bitter taste in all of us. Of greater concern for me is increasingly the realisation that we know that this is just the tip of the iceberg. I call upon all health professionals to stand up in defence of what is good in our profession by working with communities and the relevant bodies to weed out this minority that is bringing such discredit to our collective and commendable efforts.

There can be no greater cancer of betrayal than those who maliciously benefit from the intimate knowledge of the pain of those who put them in their confidence. It is in this context that we work on the initiatives of the forum of statutory councils to formulate guidelines for wider discussion on this matter. But let it be clear that this initiative will be of no meaning unless it is followed by demonstrable actions which unambiguously convey the seriousness of these transgressions.

The third clear message for us is the need to progress with even greater speed in building a truly integrated and unitary health system based on the comprehensive primary health care approach. Commendable success has been achieved in unifying our previously fragmented system and creating an integrated and functional national system and nine provincial administrations. A major challenge now is to build on the advances made in the demarcation of local government and create and strengthen functional health districts as a vehicle for the delivery of integrated primary health care services.

A related challenge is that of implementing a well co-ordinated hospital development programme. Such a programme incorporates hospital rehabilitation, decentralisation of hospital management and quality improvement initiatives. Various elements of these programmes are ongoing, as reflected both in our annual report and in the budget.

In this year’s budget, R400 million is allocated for the hospital rehabilitation programme. The challenge is to align all these consistent with the strategic framework. We are encouraged by decisions in some provinces, notably Gauteng and the Western Cape, towards allowing a degree of revenue retention within institutions and the health sector. We believe that this sets the scene for the types of incentives that are crucial in promoting efficiencies, enhancing responsiveness to clients or users, giving true meaning to decentralised management authority and promoting viable sustainable public-private partnerships.

As regards health financing, we need to encourage as many of those who can afford to make some contribution towards the financing of their health care needs to do so, so that we can better target our limited fiscal allocation to more adequately assist the many our country who remain trapped in poverty and require our assistance. This approach underpins the amendments to the Medical Schemes Act which was passed into law in 1998 and also informs our determination to work hard towards the introduction of a social health insurance as a component of an appropriate social security system in our country. The Medical Schemes Act, with all relevant regulations in place, finally came into effect on 1 January this year. The move to enhance regulatory capacity in the council for medical schemes is proceeding smoothly.

I have recently been approached by the council for medical schemes with a request for some amendments to the regulations. I have agreed to these and they will be published in their final form in the Gazette on Friday, 9 June. These cover the need to extend the amnesty period during which people can join the schemes without incurring the adverse selection protection penalties by a further nine months until March 2001. This is to make provision for the obstacles to joining that have been created amongst others by the delays in the finalisation of the rules and constitutions of the schemes. There are regulations to protect individuals from the application of the pre-existing conditions exclusions in two instances, that is where a person has been a member of the medical scheme for more than two years and needs to change to a new scheme, and where persons need to change to a new scheme because they have changed employment.

Another unambiguous message for us is the need for a coherent human resource strategy and plan that guides our actions. As we all know, health care delivery is a labour-intensive business and will remain so for many years to come. Furthermore, personnel expenditure continues to be the largest expenditure item in our budget, currently standing at 65% of the total health budget. We have put in place a team led by Prof William Pick and supported by the WHO to systematically work on this matter. This coming Thursday and Friday we shall receive the first report of this team at our Minmec.

A few points are, however, clear. We need to be more aggressive in ensuring greater representation of those historically disadvantaged in our student intakes. This must be linked to a greater focus on the actual output, as there is a disconcerting revolving-door phenomenon that we are observing. This should not just be confined to undergraduates, but, indeed, should begin to tackle the postgraduate profiles. Measures need to be put in place to avoid the current use of our limited national resources to feed an insatiable international market in the developed world through the emigration of skilled and scarce human resources, sometimes without making any real contribution to this country.

There are some definite areas of overproduction in our systems. This represents the squander of our limited national resources which we cannot justify. We simply cannot continue to train people that we know will not find employment in that particular discipline when there are many glaring areas of skills shortage which are necessary to correct in order to put our country on a firm growth trajectory.

We need to learn from the success of the introduction of community services that it is possible to secure, from our youth, genuine and meaningful participation in the entrenchment of our democratic dispensation. I salute the young doctors who were the pioneers of this initiative. I also note with satisfaction that preparations are advanced to commence community service for dentists next month and in January 2001 for pharmacists. I appeal to these young South Africans to have it in their hearts to face this challenge with commitment, pride and a sense of duty to serve. Theirs will be a reward no money can buy, namely the silent prayers of those who shall benefit from their acts of patriotism. [Applause.]

We shall work with other departments to systematically work through these challenges that we have identified. We shall imbue this area of work with the necessary urgency we believe it deserves. We shall also be guided by the work that our Cabinet is busy with in this area.

Needless to say, another key and clear message for us is that every good that we do will surely be undone if we do not tackle, bodily and comprehensively, the challenge posed by the dual epidemics of HIV/Aids and TB. This informs our approach to seek for ways of dealing comprehensively with this challenge. In the past few months we have demonstrated clear and unambiguous political commitment to deal decisively with the epidemic of HIV/Aids; extended the life-skills programmes in schools; established the SA National Aids Council; developed the HIV/Aids/STD Strategic Plan for South Africa 2000-2005, with the participation of many stakeholders; increased capacity-building and support to NGOs; finalised and published an HIV-test and policy, gazetted in December last year; and increased our public awareness campaigns.

Important landmarks have included the launching of the SA Business Council on Aids and the expansion of the civil-military alliance to cover the five provinces, strengthening partnerships through a concerted drive to meet many stakeholders. I wish to refer, particularly, to consultations with religious leaders, traditional leaders and the youth, and the development of adult treatment guidelines for opportunistic infections.

We shall now be carrying this work forward with particular focus on the following activities: Expanding HIV counselling and voluntary testing and finalising, together with the Department of Welfare, a strategy for home- based care. In this regard let me report that on Friday, 9 June, we shall be holding a joint Health and Welfare Minmec to finalise this issue as a follow-up to a successful meeting we held in March this year. Let me place on record my profound appreciation for the leadership and partnership exercised by my colleague hon Minister Zola Skweyiya in this regard.

We are also working together with the Departments of Welfare and of Education on implementing the integrated strategy for dealing with children infected with and affected by HIV/Aids. This interdepartmental programme will be funded through the special allocation of R75 million announced by the Minister of Finance during his Budget Speech. We shall continue to ensure the escalation of our public awareness programmes as well as ensuring effective functioning of SANAC.

It should be noted in this regard that HIV/Aids activities constitute the largest expenditure line item in our departmental budget. In this year alone, R145 million is allocated in our budget for activities to curb the spread of HIV/Aids and other STDs. This amount is exclusive of the R75 million already referred to for the implementation of the interdepartmental projects and budgets allocated by the provinces. We have allocated R20 million of our budget for the activities of SANAC.

As we intensify our response with greater involvement of NGOs, CBOs and the private sector, we need to enhance our ability to co-ordinate our activities from the national to the local level. A few general points need to be made on the impact of the epidemic. It is clear to us that provincial budgets are coming under very severe strain as a result of the growing burden of disease caused by Aids. In spite of this, we have committed ourselves to nondiscriminatory provision of treatment of opportunistic and intercurrent infections. I believe that many would agree that, everything else aside, the use of antiretroviral triple therapy is completely unaffordable in our context. This would be so even if there was an 80% reduction in the current market price, as was reported in some of our media.

We, however, believe that it is appropriate for us to continue engaging the pharmaceutical industry with a view to working towards improving the affordability of pharmaceuticals. That is why we shall actively participate in these discussions both as ourselves but also representing SADC member states that have appointed us to represent the region as part of an African Ministerial Team.

Needless to say, we welcome any sincere attempts and efforts by the pharmaceutical companies to increase access to pharmaceuticals. As many members know, we continue to engage Pfizer in its offer to make available free of charge Fluconazole for the treatment of cryptococcal meningitis.

We are approaching these discussions with an open mind, but we believe that any strategy that we follow should be sustainable. We also appeal to Pfizer to extend its offer to ensure an affordable package for the treatment of thrush - a debilitating condition that is common in those infected with HIV/Aids. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Dr A S NKOMO: Mr Chairperson, as we rise to the bait of the challenge of this Vote, I wish to congratulate the newly appointed Minister of Health, Dr Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, and all the new MECs for health.

I wish also to acknowledge the fact that the national Health Team, otherwise known as the Minmec, consisting of ten members, has five women in its ranks. I am happy to make this remark, because, even as we speak, the Beijing + 5 Platform of Action is sitting in New York, and one of the senior members of this portfolio committee, Mrs Bertha Gxowa, is one of the South African representatives at that conference. [Interjections.]

It was Alfred Tennyson who said: ... much to do, so little done, such things to be.'' He could just as well have said:So much to do, so little money, such things to be.’’ Having said that, I must express the gratitude of the health team for the whopping sum of R32 billion that has been set aside for health care delivery in the current financial year. This constitutes the largest budgetary allocation to a line function. This is a loud and proud testimony of Government’s seriousness about health, as evidenced by the fact that the Ministry of Health has a seat on the MincomBud, which sets priorities on issues such as the allocation of resources within the social and economic sectors.

We have just emerged from the Health budget hearings which are an important occasion for the Portfolio Committee on Health as they present the committee and the NA with the opportunity to review major activities undertaken by both the national and provincial departments of health. And may I say that these hearings were attended by not less than 12 directorates and all nine provinces. These proceedings also fulfil the constitutional mandate that requires the NA to -

… ovide for mechanisms -

(a) to ensure that all executive organs of state in the national sphere of government are accountable to it; and (b) to maintain oversight of -

   (i)  the exercise of national executive authority, including the
          implementation of legislation; and
   (ii) any organ of state.

The objectives of the hearings are as follows: Critically to review what major activities were undertaken during the past fiscal year to meet the established needs of the South African population; to examine how financial resources were spent on these activities; to learn about departmental priorities and plans for the coming fiscal year; to highlight any obstacles and problems for delaying the realisation of the rights established in the Constitution; and to identify where the portfolio committee can assist in the process.

The past few years have seen the introduction of new policies and legislation within the health sector intended to facilitate the transformation process. While this legislative reform will be an ongoing process, the coming years will focus primarily on the implementation and monitoring of enacted legislation and policy to see whether it has made a difference. Indeed, this afternoon, we begin the hearings on issues around the implementation of the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act.

The portfolio committee realises the need to continuously evaluate and re- evaluate the impact of this transformation in the health system, and also on service delivery. Therefore, the report generated from these hearings is used, along with additional technical analysis, to provide a basis for an annual evaluation of the budget by the portfolio committee.

Policy developments have to be viewed in the context of the broader national social policy framework, which is to foster a balanced and viable society that requires social institutions and services to function effectively and smoothly. In support of this, the national Department of Health set out in the 1997 White Paper the strategy and objectives on the transformation of the health system in South Africa. The key objectives of this transformation include the promotion of equity and accessibility in service delivery, and the extension of the availability of appropriate services.

The implementation of the 1997 White Paper on the transformation of the health system in South Africa has seen progress in four broad areas, for instance, of the increased access to primary health care; acceleration of the initial implementation of the district health system for primary health care delivery, as will be amplified by Mr Mpehle later on this morning; development of key inputs such as the national norms and standards; legislative developments in support of primary health and access to services.

The year 1999 saw the following legislative and policy advances: The approval of the three amendments to the Tobacco Products Control Amendment Act of 1998, to ensure its constitutionality; the publication, in October 1999, of the regulations in terms of the Medical Schemes Act of 1998; the implementation of compulsory community service for pharmacists through the Pharmacy Amendment Bill of 1999; the establishment of the SA National Aids Council; and the establishment of a draft HIV/Aids Strategic Plan for South Africa 2000-2005.

Concerning health system reform priorities, what has also emerged from the hearings were the following health reform priorities: The equitable allocation of health services, including the budget, nationally, in compliance with the Constitution; the implementation of a primary health care strategy based on the principles of the primary health care approach as enunciated at Alma Alta in 1978; and the creation of an integrated health system, ensuring both public and private sectors best serve the public interest.

Government has taken a very responsible line with Unaids and WHO, which have identified public awareness aimed at changing life-styles and behaviour as the most potent weapon against HIV/Aids. In the context of a preventative approach, they have looked at the development of a vaccine which is specific to the variant of the HIV virus that is prevalent in Southern Africa, and Government has, through the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, contributed a sum of R200 million to the South African vaccine initiative.

The Department of Health continues to lead Government efforts to fight the HIV/Aids pandemic. HIV/Aids is one of the most serious health challenges facing this country, if not the world. While Health will remain in the forefront of the struggle against HIV/Aids, Government, as a whole, has committed itself to the fight against HIV/Aids. The SA National Aids Council has established, and Cabinet has approved, a special allocation of the national Budget of R75 million in the current financial year towards HIV/Aids. The Departments of Health, of Education and of Welfare will use these funds to develop an integrated strategy to fight HIV/Aids.

It is crucial to understand that HIV/Aids is not a health problem but a societal problem. Any strategy to combat the epidemic needs a holistic approach - a mobilisation of resources from all spheres of society and the recognition that Government is just one part of this and does not have all the answers to the problem. It is thus disheartening to see the one-minded approach and belief that drugs only offer the key to a successful strategy for combating the disease.

HIV/Aids wears the face of a chronic disease and affects only a small portion of the population in the Western world. In this country, and indeed in the Southern African region, HIV/Aids wears the face of a lethal disease which affects millions of our people with unprecedented cost implications. Any strategy to combat the disease needs to take this into account and therefore cannot take the form of an exclusive strategy that serves only the select few. It is with this in mind that prevention has already been identified and authorised as the main weapon to be used in the fight against HIV/Aids. We are not alone in this strategy, but together with the United Nations and the World Health Organisation. The Government has already poured money to finance a campaign to change the lifestyles and behaviour of society. The campaign involves all sectors of society as is manifested in the SA National Aids Council which brings together the faith-based sector, academics, sports personalities, the youth sector, celebrities, people living with HIV/Aids and a core group of Government Ministers.

As part of this preventative approach, the Government has identified a need to develop a vaccine, and through the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, has allocated R200 million to this project. The campaign must also entail a close nexus between poverty-alleviation measures, human rights and developmental considerations as well. As a society, we need to pause and take stock, to consider whether we have created a climate in which it is physically safe and incentive driven for people living with Aids to come out of the closet.

A call needs to be made to the representatives of health workers’ organisations to announce their readiness, their willingness to endorse the rights of all people, including people living with Aids, to access the health care delivery system. A pertinent consideration in the matter of knowledge production relates to the partnership between the performers of clinical trials and the subjects of such clinical trials. To whom does the intellectual property deriving from this social production accrue? Why is it unilaterally appropriated by only the performers of such trials?

These are issues which we need further to interrogate as the portfolio committee, to determine the rights and responsibilities of pharmaceutical companies, but also, and more importantly, the rights of the subjects of these clinical trials. We support this Vote. [Applause.]

Mrs S V KALYAN: Chairperson, hon members, Health was awarded a sum of R32 billion - that is 12% of the total Budget - to achieve its goals for 2000-

1. Big tasks, limited money, and it is quite understandable why the Ministry of Health continues to plead financial restraint as a hindering factor to goal realisation. But then again, this does not excuse why 40% of the allocated Aids budget rolled over last year.

South Africa is faced with a worsening Aids epidemic which will have a profound impact on the country’s economic outlook. Infection rates are forecast to peak at almost 17% by 2006 for the population as a whole, with Aids-related deaths expected to peak five years later with 256 Aids deaths per 1 000 normal deaths. Around one in five adult South Africans are thought to be infected with HIV - the virus that leads to Aids.

Closer to home, Prof Coovadia, chair of the Aids 2000 Conference, stated recently that one in 12 members of Parliament are HIV-positive. In view of the alarming statistics just quoted, it is both puzzling and disturbing to note the Government’s persistent dragging-of-the-heels attitude in addressing the pandemic. Is it possible that the Minister of Health’s identity crisis has got something to do with it?

Apparently it took a child - her daughter - to inform her that she is actually the Minister of Health and not the Minister of Aids. Hon members should add to this her rather arrogant statement quoted in the Washington Post: ``People with Aids expect you to drop everything for Aids,’’ and one begins to understand that the Aids pandemic is not really the number-one priority on her list. If the Minister feels that Aids does not form the bulk of her portfolio, why does she not then heed the call of both the DP and several NGOs to move the national HIV/Aids programme out of the Ministry of Health and allow an independent commission, which falls under the authority of the President, but is chaired by civil society, to run the programme. [Interjections.]

When asked in a recent debate on the question: Why is the Government struggling to make an impact on the Aids crisis, the Minister chastised the audience for daring to believe that the Government has a vital role to play in addressing the Aids pandemic. It is her belief that the individual must take responsibility rather than the Government, thereby inadvertently casting aspersions about the Government’s ability to lead the Aids campaign effectively.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, are you rising on a point of order?

Dr B G MBULAWA-HANS: Chairperson, no. I would like to ask a question.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Would you take a question, Mrs Kalyan?

Mrs S V KALYAN: No.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! She will not take a question.

Mrs S V KALYAN: President Mbeki stated in 1997 that the Government has committed itself to a partnership against Aids. It is without a doubt the most important partner because Government has power, Government has resources, Government has connections, Government has influence. All of these could be powerfully employed to make an impact on this epidemic. But what do we have instead?

When challenged recently in the United States on his apparent inaction in tackling the Aids pandemic in South Africa head-on, the hon Mbeki replied that his stance was really not one of inaction, but rather that of meditation. So what do we have in South Africa? We have the case of punctured condoms, we have the Sarafina 2 saga, we have statements that western solutions are unsuitable, that Aids drugs are either impossibly expensive or toxic, we have a belief that the African version of the disease is unrelated to the HI-virus, we have a Minister with a child adviser in respect of her job description, and we have a President who meditates on life-and-death issues.

To date, the Government has struggled to make even a small dent in the Aids pandemic, primarily because of a determined stubbornness to address the issue head-on. The Government has failed to publicly acknowledge its mistakes and this has encouraged denial of the disease in our country. The Government has to make choices regarding the provision of Aids drugs, especially to pregnant women in order to reduce the risk of mother-to-child transmission. The Government needs to break the silence. The words of Phylicia Oppelt when she says, ``A flutter of red material cannot speak as loudly as the voice and action of role models,’’ best illustrates how this can be achieved.

South Africa is not only battling with its Aids crisis. While significant changes have taken place in the planning of district health care, improvement in service delivery systems at the grass-roots have been disappointing. A recent survey suggests that improvements in district health care is being hindered by inappropriate human resource planning and slow organisational transformation of hospital services. Current staffing is roughly two-thirds of new recommended levels resulting in poor delivery, low motivation and reduced capacity to deliver. Further, another report recently states that only 103 of the 269 hospitals designated to provide free abortions are functional, thereby causing an escalation in the number of back-street abortions.

Mental health is a sadly neglected aspect of our health system. Electro- convulsive therapy and deep-sleep therapy have not been mentioned in the proposed Mental Health Bill and are practised in many psychiatric institutions, often without proper and informed consent.

The Minister’s predecessor generated a lot of activity in the field of health care during her five years in office, not necessarily all good. When this Minister took over as Minister of Health, South Africa breathed a collective sigh of relief and there was an expectation and hope that she would make positive moves to ensure that the 1994 ANC election promise of health care for all would be realised. Sad to say, in the past year it has been a case of more of the same policy, which has resulted in an increased sense of frustration by both patients and health care professionals. It is sincerely hoped that once the Minister has got over her identity crisis and familiarised herself fully with her job description, she will give her full and undivided attention to the job at hand. [Applause.]

Dr R RABINOWITZ: Mr Chairperson, working with the ANC health policy is like walking in a minefield of paradoxes. It is like being in wonderland, and if the policy continues in its present vein it will be as much use to the people of South Africa as the Mad Hatter’s tea party was to Alice in Wonderland, not for lack of commitment on the part of all the players, from the Minister to the lowliest opposition MP, but because it is based on a system that is designed to fail. [Interjections.]

One had to sympathise with the officials of the national department who reported to us during budget hearings. One after the other, with admirable frankness, they admitted that they were failing to provide health care that was adequate. No one even spoke of good to large sections of our population, and their integrity deserves that we support this budget.

When the hon Dr Nkomo arranged for us to briefly interact with Minmec, it was clear that the health system is knotted with complexities. Intentions are admirable, but not mechanisms for implementation. Money must be spent, but, I fear, little will change. I believe that many in the department understand the root cause of the problem, but they dare not say so. Therefore I keep calling out: Change the Constitution!'' to anyone who will listen. But the C-word is a sacred cow and anyone who dares mess with it is likely to hear:Off with your head!’’

If we genuinely want to deliver services to the people, we need a system that is simple, clear and, above all, accountable. How else does it become efficient? Ours is none of the above. Our failure to deal with Aids, which straddles health, welfare and education, is a barometer of the weakness of the system. There are knowledgeable people in South Africa who know the root cause of our problems. They have workable solutions, but they need more recognition and the Aids plan needs better management and co- ordination.

The Ugandan model stares us in the face. It includes a major commitment to community health workers. They speak in a language the people understand. They have credibility. But here they play the minutest role. Why do we have such a strong denial about Aids? It is because it is still dealt with within the realms of mythology and because it is more a matter of political theatre and populism than a matter of practical concern.

Migrancy and trucking need special solutions, as does the custom of multiple sex partners, at all levels of society. Rape, the unequal power relationships between men and women, the absence of testing, and openness and personal responsibility, are issues that must be tackled one by one. At its present rate of devastation, Aids will render all our other gains futile. Compared with these mammoth issues, the problems with drug companies are as nothing.

One of the issues that deserves that we draw the line between Parliament as theatre and Parliament as a place of integrity is where we play God over babies’ lives. People will understand that treating HIV-positive mothers to reduce the chances of their babies getting Aids is not a money issue. It only costs R25 per treatment with Nevirapine and almost the same price for the Government using AZT as the cheapest generic. Besides, the cheapest abortion costs R181 and the Government offers them freely. No, it is not about money, it is about coping with the orphans.

We are equally ambiguous when it comes to Aids testing. ``Be open,’’ we say, but we hardly offer any tests. We could offer group pretest counselling, and everyone who attends a clinic or hospital could be offered an HIV test while allowing them the right to deny it. If they test positive, they must know the result. Some people will fall into the six- week window period and others may experience social ostracism. But the emphasis should be on self-knowledge with confidentiality and on a patient’s obligation to communicate the information to a spouse or sex partner.

As more people become positive fewer will be ostracised. Tests are available at R6 each and possibly less if purchased in vast quantities. Can the Government say to this that they do not have the money? We run about saying: No money, no money,'' like the White Rabbit who kept saying:No time, no time.’’ We can stretch our money if we use it efficiently and effectively, and if we are more courageous with private-public partnerships. We must also be more creative with international donor partnerships and use them to give people incentives to be open about Aids. They can receive food supplements, vitamins, legal support, group support, exercise or yoga classes, laughter therapy, homeopathic treatment or treatment with registered traditional healers to boost their immunity.

Yes, corruption is rife in the public and the private sector, but there are ways around this. One way is to regulate, not so that the Government controls everyone and everything, as that increases the scope for corruption, but to ensure that minimum standards are imposed, monitored and applied, both in public and in private health facilities. Only if the private and the public sectors are put into open competition, will we narrow the gap between services for rich and poor. Let us create a database of state patients and contract our provision of services to private clinics and hospitals. Bloodsuckers would find no place in such arrangements, as payment would be per patient and not per service.

All aspects of health delivery require favourable incentives, and there are ways of offering such incentives while allowing competition and freedom of choice, and while regulating to ensure minimum standards. By contrast, nothing could be more wonderlandish than Dr Nkomo pointing his lance at the provinces and threatening to make them vanish so that the national and local government can offer an efficient, equitable and national health service.

Realistically, we should provide an Aids emergency fund to each province, and let them get on with training pretest counsellors and health workers and with distributing condoms. As things stand, provinces must deal with the entire Aids epidemic without any increase in budget. They must fail.

Equally befitting wonderland are genetically modified organisms. There is a tiny staff component dealing with this immensely important task. They are knowledgeable and obligingly forthcoming with information. But the problem they are facing with labelling has not been resolved at the international level. We cannot hold on until Codex, the world food monitoring body, makes up its mind. Biotechnology already has its claws into us.

Genetically modified organism technology is growing faster than our control of it. We are told that labelling of genetically modified organisms all the way along the food chain will be impossible because grains are mixed in silos and cannot be separated into GMO-full and GMO-free. It is too expensive to check products down the line for GMOs, and if we cannot label at the beginning stages, why bother to label at the last stage of processing? To pretend that we are looking after the public? We might as well just say to people: ``Eat me and grow tall, drink me and get smaller.’’ A better option seems to be to label foods free of GMOs, where the responsibility and cost are borne by companies trading in healthy natural products.

There is a depressing list of additional problems about which I could maunder on, like the winding perm in the mouse’s tail in wonderland. There is the bizarre approach to foreign qualified doctors in terms of which only Cubans are welcomed to our shores. Recently, the department won its appeal against a judgment that favoured nine excellently qualified doctors. [Time expired.]

Ms S B NQODI: Hon Chair and members, I will not waste my time by responding to the shallow-minded and maybe academically and scientifically empty and uninformed arguments and lamentations on Aids from the people on my left. [Interjections.] One of my party members has been mandated to debate the HIV/Aids pandemic facing all of us.

I want to commend the Department of Health on the achievements it has made under the most difficult circumstances since the inception of our democratic Government in 1994. It is a fact that the backlog we inherited from the apartheid era posed a daunting challenge that many thought we would never overcome. I am sure that most members in this House still remember the constant TV coverage of the unsightly, dilapidated state of our health facilities and equipment in the Eastern Cape. It is thus with great optimism that I stand here today without being naive about the challenges we have set for our country’s health system under the ANC-led Government.

According to the 1999 South African health review, significant strides have been made in developing a unified public health sector that is district- based and underpinned by the principles of a primary health care approach. However, transformation and the achievements of equity are hampered by various factors which include difficulty in redistributing resources together with a shrinking public sector budget. A good example of this is that while, on the surface, the Health budget has increased by approximately 6% from last year, which is a welcome increase, when taking the inflation rate into account, this increase is minimal, indeed.

As the hon the Minister has mentioned, equity is the key to our goals, and I stand here as the champion of this great cause, which I would like to address myself to. A distinction needs to be made, however, between equity and equality. Equity does not mean providing the same resources to everyone. It means giving more to those who have less, so that the gap between the rich and the poor decreases. Whether equity is measured by health status, by province, by race or according to the urban/rural divide, the fact of the matter is that it is almost exclusively poor black people whose lives are most affected by inequity in South Africa today.

These, as I have stated in my opening, can be traced from the backlogs we have inherited, as the people’s Government, from the apartheid regime. To illustrate this, the lives of our families in the rural Eastern Cape or the Northern Province differ greatly from the lives of people in Cape Town or Johannesburg, not only in their day-to-day lives, but also with regard to their health status.

Research by the health system trust indicates that around 30% of children in rural provinces do not grow to their full potential, due to poverty and everything that goes along with it, as compared to only 10% in the affluent or rich provinces. This then supports the fact that rural Africans have, by and large, the worst health status of all South Africans.

Underlying these differences are the determinants of health. For example, only 12% of rural Africans have a tap in their dwellings, whereas over 95% of whites and Indians, and over 70% of coloureds, have taps in their homes. Water is the source of life. What kind of life do we hope for in our rural communities?

In 1997, out of every 100 women attending antenatal clinics, 16 were infected with HIV/Aids, and we know from the statistics and subsequent data that this epidemic has increased. In KwaZulu-Natal, 27 people out of 100 are infected, whereas less than ten people per 100 are infected in the Northern Cape, Western Cape and Northern Province. When these figures are separated by race, the overwhelming majority of those infected are black Africans.

As a committee charged with the oversight function of this national department, interprovincial equity is also our concern. The increase of around 6% does not reveal the reality that the less well-off provinces that have received the least increases in their budget allocations are the same provinces that have massive backlogs.

We thus questioned the effectiveness of the formula that determines the provincial equitable share, especially with the Minister of Finance. While backlogs and rural populations are taken into consideration in the formula, their weighting, however, is far too small to result in any tangible differences within the health sector. Notwithstanding the inequities in health resource allocation between provinces, the inequities between provinces are far greater. Case studies undertaken into the budgets of the Eastern Cape and the North West show that there was, at least, a fourfold difference in resource allocation between the district with the greatest budget and the district with the smallest budget. I want to conclude by supporting the budget and by emphasising the importance of the need for accelerated change in delivery in the health system, and the need to improve the quality of the lives of our people, especially those who are underserviced in the rural areas. [Applause.]

Dr S J GOUS: Mnr die Voorsitter, Gesondheid het sedert 1994 al hoe meer prominensie geniet en word deesdae as een van die belangrikste maatskaplike portefeuljes saam met veiligheid en sekuriteit genoem. Die rede hiervoor is hoofsaaklik die voorkoms van Vigs, wat ‘n voelbare negatiewe effek op alle vlakke van die samelewing uitoefen.

Wanneer ‘n begroting beoordeel word, is die belangrikste vraag of die publiek waarde vir geld ontvang, en daarom is dit nodig om ‘n balansstaat van die Departement van Gesondheid se suksesse en mislukking op te stel. Sedert 1994 het grootskaalse transformasie plaasgevind om ‘n hoogs gefragmenteerde gesondheidsdiens onder een departement te vestig. Dit is tot die departement se krediet dat hierdie moeilike proses van herstrukturering nou grotendeels afgehandel is.

Die departement het ook daarin geslaag om talle primêre gesondheidsorgklinieke te vestig - let wel, nie noodwendig effektief te bedryf nie - en moet krediet ontvang vir die immuniseringsprojekte en -programme vir polio, masels en hepatitis B. Voedingskemas vir kinders het ook, ten spyte van talle probleme, tot ‘n algemene verbetering van gesondheid gely.

Die tyd van transformasie en herstrukturering is egter nou verby, en ons moet nou begin kyk na effektiewe, volhoubare dienslewering. In hierdie opsig skiet die Departement van Gesondheid te kort. Dit wil voorkom asof die verhoogde las van Vigs, TB en geweld, waarby padongelukke ingesluit word, daarvoor verantwoordelik is dat die konsep van primêre gesondheidsorg en roetine mediese dienste heeltemal oorskadu word.

Die gevolg van hierdie verhoogde las word ervaar in die vorm van onaanvaarbaar lang wagtye vir roetine- mediese diens, byvoorbeeld operasies, met ‘n gevolglik verhoogde druk op ‘n reeds oorwerkte gesondheidspersoneel. Koppel ‘n mens nou hieraan die dodelike kombinasie van ‘n gebrek aan fondse en toerusting, onbevoegdheid, wanadministrasie, wanbestuur, diefstal, vermorsing, stakings en ‘n verlaagde moraal onder gesondheidswerkers, dan kan jy verstaan hoekom daar gevrees word dat staatsgesondheidsdienste ‘n totale ineenstorting in die gesig staar.

Sedert 1994 was daar ‘n vloedgolf gesondheidswetgewing. Behalwe vir transformasie was die doel daarvan in die meeste gevalle om ‘n bekostigbare, beskikbare en volhoubare gesondheidsdiens daar te stel. Ongelukkig het heelwat van die wetgewing nie altyd in hulle doel geslaag nie, en in sekere gevalle selfs die teenoorgestelde effek gehad.

Die Ministerie en Departement van Gesondheid het in die meeste gevalle self die hindernisse en probleme ten opsigte van hierdie wetgewing geskep, byvoorbeeld deur nie altyd die volle implikasies van goedbedoelde wetgewing te oorweeg nie; deur ‘n merkbare tekort aan konsultasie, navorsing en onderhandeling; deur meestal ‘n voorafbepaalde eensydige agenda doodeenvoudig deur te druk; deur te veel aan regulasies oor te laat; deur groeiende verwydering tussen die staat en die private sektor toe te laat terwyl die private sektor juis die potensiaal en die vermoë het om ‘n groot rol in die oplossings van hierdie probleme te speel. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Dr S J GOUS: Mr Chairman, since 1994 Health has been enjoying increasing prominence and, along with Safety and Security, is deemed to be one of the most important social portfolios these days. The reason for this is mainly the prevalence of Aids, which has a tangibly negative effect at all levels of society.

When a budget is assessed, the most important question is whether the public gets value for money, and that is why it is necessary to draw up a balance sheet of the successes and failures of the Department of Health. Since 1994 large-scale transformation has taken place to establish a highly fragmented health service under one department. It is to the department’s credit that this difficult process of restructuring has now for the most part been completed.

The department has also succeeded in establishing many primary health care clinics - take note, not necessarily in running them effectively - and must be given credit for the immunisation projects and programmes for polio, measles and hepatitis B. Feeding schemes for children have also, despite many problems, contributed to a general improvement in health.

The time for transformation and restructuring is now over, however, and we should begin to look at effective, sustainable service delivery. In this regard the Department of Health is very wide of the mark. It would seem as if the increased burden of Aids, TB and violence, including road accidents, is responsible for the concept of primary health care and routine medical services being completely overshadowed.

The result of this increased burden manifests itself in unacceptably long waiting times for routine medical services, for example operations, with the concomitant increased pressure on already overworked health personnel. When one links this to the deadly combination of a lack of funds and equipment, incompetence, maladministration, mismanagement, theft, wastage, strikes and a low morale among health workers, then one can understand why there are fears that state health care services are facing complete collapse.

Since 1994 there has been a flood of health legislation. Apart from transformation its purpose in most cases was to introduce an affordable, available and sustainable health service. Unfortunately a great deal of the legislation did not always succeed in achieving its objective, and in certain cases even had the opposite effect.

The Ministry and the Department of Health in most cases created the obstacles and problems in respect of this legislation themselves, for example by not always fully considering the implications of well-intended legislation; by a visible lack of consultation, research and negotiation; by for the most part quite simply forcing through a predetermined, one- sided agenda; by leaving too much to regulations; by allowing increasing estrangement to develop between the state and the private sector, while the private sector in fact has the potential and the ability to play a major role in resolving these problems.]

HIV/Aids, as a human right, has become politically sensitive. The debate is mainly driven by the quest to limit and eradicate unfair discrimination against people living with HIV/Aids. Unfortunately, in this process, we might be doing the issue more harm than good, when considering the bigger picture.

When one examines the origins of the discrimination, it becomes clear that it is mainly due to the stigma associated with the disease. The fact is that the stigma originated in North America and Europe, due to the association with homosexuals and intravenous drug users. It then becomes clear that we in Africa simply inherited and perpetuated this stigma, despite the obvious difference that, in Africa, the disease is mainly a heterosexual, sexually transmitted disease.

Why then, do other sexually transmitted diseases such as syphilis and gonorrhoea not enjoy the same protection? The same question can be asked of terminal diseases such as cancer. History has shown that diseases such as TB and leprosy were also stigmatised in the past, but eventually rid themselves of the stigma. It would therefore logically follow that, if given time, HIV/Aids would also eventually follow this route.

The first question that needs answering is whether the elevation of HIV/Aids to a human rights issue is not going to perpetuate the stigma ad infinitum, long after it should have disappeared naturally. Certain medical experts have expressed the opinion that a misguided human rights approach is catastrophic and is, in fact, going to lead to growing inequalities.

If HIV/Aids in Africa is, indeed, unique, as our President also seems to believe, why are we driving issues which essentially belong to Europe and North America? The second question that begs investigation is whether a misguided human rights route is not counterproductive in the fight against the disease. The issue of HIV testing immediately comes to mind. If one interprets the Employment Equity Act to the letter of the law, absolutely no testing - not even voluntary - may be undertaken in occupational health, unless instructed by the Labour Court.

This becomes an untenable situation for health personnel who have to deal with diagnosis and treatment, not to mention the prevention of the spread of the disease. The debate about the notification of HIV/Aids is of late simply being ignored, despite the fact that HIV/Aids certainly qualifies as a communicable disease. The obvious conflict in the Occupational Health and Safety Act and the Employment Equity Act will have to be addressed as a matter of urgency.

The third question that arises is what the rights of an HIV-negative person are and whether they are in balance with the rights of an HIV-positive person. The very legitimate right of an HIV-negative person is certainly to stay HIV-negative and virtually nothing is being done to directly entrench this right. Given that with every right comes a responsibility, one must assume that it is the responsibility of an HIV-positive person not to spread the disease. Is there any criminal culpability associated with a wilful spreading of HIV?

There are many possible situations that may unfairly discriminate against an HIV-negative person and where mandatory testing may be considered, for example in jails, a situation beyond the control of an individual; in accidents; in needlestick injury among health workers; in motor vehicle accidents with blood mingling; in violence, rape and assault. HIV-negative unborn babies would also fall into this category.

Many questions remain unanswered or are simply ignored. Who may be tested and under what circumstances? Who is responsible for the cost of testing? Who is responsible for the cost of prophylactic treatment? Who, and under what circumstances, qualifies for compensation? After all, a suspect in a drunken-driving case has very little choice as to whether he wants his blood tested or not. It is abundantly clear that the silent majority, who are the HIV-negative persons, have not spoken on these issues. It is now time that we openly and seriously debate them. It is also clear that we have a holocaust of Aids on our hands and therefore do not necessarily have to act politically correctly, because, in the long run, we might cause more harm than good. We must opt for a rational approach that will have a real and measurable effect on the pandemic of HIV/Aids.

Dr E E JASSAT: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister, respected members, for the past few years the members have been bombarded by horrendous HIV/Aids statistics of those who are infected, their disabilities and their eventual death from this pandemic. Even though members have been fed ad nauseam with these statistics, they are so significant and will have such an impact on our socioeconomic fabric that a repetition may not be out of place.

Nationally, some 22,4% of women attending antenatal clinics were infected with HIV, according to estimates provided by the 9th HIV survey of the past year. These figures translate to approximately 4,2 million people or about 10% of the total population being HIV-positive by the end of 1999, that is one in 10 persons. [Interjections.] Some 405 000 people in South Africa have already died of Aids and 167 000 people are sick with Aids.

According to Metlife, by the end of this year, 5,6 million people will be HIV-positive and by the year 2005, 18% of the workforce will be infected. It is estimated that 2,1 million people will have died as a result of this epidemic. According to Unaids, by the year 2010, life expectancy in South Africa will have dropped from 68,2 years in 1998 to 48 years, ie by 30%. The population growth rate will also drop from 1,4% at present to 0,04%, and this will be a decrease of about 71%. Another problem is how South Africa can cope with this national disaster in the face of limited resources and a skewed societal infrastructure.

The four components of co-ordinated response include, behavioural changes, prevention through vaccine or biomedical solutions, bringing down opportunistic diseases and STDs, the use of antirevitrol drugs, and seeking a final cure for HIV. These behaviours are moulded by psychosocial determinants such as self-efficacy, environmental determinants, such as condom disposal, social determinants, such as power relations between genders, and, finally, economic determinants such as poverty. The Ugandan experience demonstrates that behavioural changes can work in Africa. Uganda is a country in which the decline of HIV seroprevalence rates among young pregnant women fell from 31% in 1990 to 13% in 1998. Thus it is possible to bring about change.

The South African Aids vaccine initiative will be launching phase one of a subtype C vaccine later this year, under the auspices of the MRC. However, it will take at least five to ten years before a vaccine that can be used will be available to our people in this country. Treatment of opportunistic diseases and STDs is, at the moment, the most viable course we can undertake. Antiretroviral treatment, with a combination of drugs, has been shown to prolong life among people living with Aids. But the regimen is complex, numerous side effects will occur and the costs are prohibitive, as our Minister has pointed out. Complete cure through the use of drugs is still a pipe-dream. I would like to conclude by reading a poem by Don Mattera, a poem which could be a call and cry by an Aids victim. It reads:

Remember to call at my grave When freedom finally Walks the land That I may rise To tread familiar paths To see broken chains Fallen prejudice Forgotten injury Pardoned pains

[Applause.]

Mr T ABRAHAMS: Mr Chairman, the scheduling of the debate on this Budget Vote on Health is unfortunate. I say it is unfortunate because it is taking place this morning. So many other things are happening. So many committees are meeting. Members are tied up with so many other matters on this particular morning that the House is practically empty. So much can be read into the fact that so many members are not here. That is unfortunate.

Some people will say that there is a lack of interest on the part of the politicians in the problem of HIV/Aids and health in general. Others will say that it is because so many of them have HIV/Aids themselves. Yet others will say that it is because of a sense of denial and because people say: ``This is a virus that will never attack me. It will always attack the next person, never me.’’ However, with that unfortunate situation, this has brought about that our own spokesperson is tied up elsewhere and I shall therefore read on his behalf what he has to say about this matter.

He says that it is undeniable that the HIV/Aids phenomenon is a diabolical killer that has been unleashed upon us. It is stalking us in our workplaces, in our streets, in our congregations, universities, sports fields, venues of entertainment and even in our homes. It affects men and women of all ages and occupations in every province and the virus recognises no status or station.

The evidence is stark and overwhelming. Well over 4 million people in our country have HIV/Aids at the moment. Over 1 700 are infected daily and if this onward thrust is not stopped in its tracks, then one in every four of our citizens will be HIV infected within a decade. The equivalent of over three quarters of a million children will be lost because of this phenomenon. Yet we have this high incidence of denial - the general denial of the existence or effects of this virus. There is a pervading sense of acceptance that if this virus does exist, it affects others, not me.

My spokesman calls for the criminalisation of conscious Aids transmission. He calls for pregnant mothers to be treated to prevent mother-to-child transmission. Testing must be made more widespread. He calls for the decriminalisation of sex workers as a means to reduce transmission, and he also calls for antiretrovirals to be made available to the poor, with the concurrent adequate infrastructure - and he stresses ``adequate’’ infrastructure - to be developed to distribute it.

Mrs M M MALUMISE: Chairperson, South Africa is moving towards a situation in which more people will live longer and women will continue to have a longer life expectancy than men. This is a fact. The declaration of the rights of the elderly states: Older people should be able to live in dignity and security, and be free of exploitation and physical or mental abuse.

The Department of Health must be commended for its policy on free health care and the shift towards primary health care. Although we are seeing significant improvements in our health system, our health services are still not completely geared towards the needs of the elderly. There are very few health services specifically designed for elderly people. They have to make use of general services and often complain that they are treated as second-class citizens. This is unacceptable.

Too often, no explanation is given of diseases affecting them, and they are told that, as they are now old, nothing much can be done for them - and I am one of them. During the budget hearings of the portfolio committee, very little emphasis was placed on the needs of the elderly - and this we see reflected in the department’s strategies and the budget allocations.

Today I want to encourage the Minister to give attention to new policies relating to services for the elderly, and I want to make a few suggestions in this regard. The budget should make provision for comprehensive services within a primary health care framework. Preventative services, such as cancer screening and monitoring of nutritional levels, will enable elderly people to remain independent and live healthily for a longer period. This can only be a saving for the state. The cost of medicines for the elderly must be kept down and in this regard, the pharmaceutical industry has a role to play by reducing their prices and allowing the Government to purchase drugs at affordable prices. Hopefully, by next year, a budget will be set aside for research into the cost of medicines for the elderly, and we will explore new ways through which health insurance schemes will expand their coverage of home-based care.

Care of the elderly falls between the two main legs of service provision - health and welfare. Therefore, we must improve the co-ordination between the health and welfare. These departments should work closely with Public Works to ensure that clinics and hospitals are accessible for the elderly, and that provinces must budget for the transportation of the elderly to these service points.

Many of the needs of the elderly can be met by people with fairly simple skills, like myself. What is needed, however, is multilevel training for different situations, and I want to advocate that the budget should make provision for multilevel training.

Regarding Aids, we are beginning to see more people living with HIV/Aids, and we are rightly seeing more and more calls for community-based care. Here, too, much of the burden of care falls on women, especially elderly women. We must congratulate the department for its varied strategies relating to HIV/Aids, but I want to encourage the department to consider the rural areas in their budget. As we all know, there are fewer facilities or no facilities for care-givers and few possibilities of establishing day- care centres. A guiding principle in community care is to find ways to strengthen the support centres.

In conclusion, concerning disabled people, health service plays a major role in the wellbeing of the disabled, in particular, women and children. The following barriers make health services a dream for disabled people. South Africa has not yet acknowledged the lack of rehabilitation in their later stages in life for disabled people who are born with disability.

There is a lack of accelerated assistive devices, as the President has stated in his state of the nation address. Hopefully, this will be addressed as soon as possible. There is a lack of information training which leads to health workers’ behaviour being very dissatisfactory towards disabled people in general. Owing to the above and a lack of research and accessibility to service providers, disabled women are left out out of the programme.

I support this Vote. [Applause.]

Ms C DUDLEY: Chairman, hon Minister and colleagues, on the 24 April this year, the Cape Argus reported that more than 100 000 abortions have been performed in South Africa since the passing of legislation three years ago. The patients were mostly African women, followed by coloured, white and Indian.

Much Government funding has clearly been put to the provision of abortion, despite the fact that most surveys indicate a majority public opposition to abortions being carried out. However, it would seem that no expenditure has been provided, either for supporting alternatives to abortion or for provision of information regarding alternatives. This is a gross injustice against the many desperate girls and women that the Act purports to help.

Legalising an abortion does not take away the pain. Of the 100 000 aborted babies, how many of their mothers really had a choice? One option only is not a choice. One option is not loving a mother. No mother feels nothing at having her baby removed. Ask any woman who has had a miscarriage. Genuine love gives genuine choices. Loving a woman means loving her child.

Resources must be spent on providing women with a choice. They must be told they would not lose their jobs for being pregnant; they must be told about abortion options; and they must receive advice and help in dealing with relationships, schooling and other practical issues.

Their desperation and distress do not deserve the callous response of a disposal clinic on every corner. [Interjections.] Recently, a spokesperson for the Marie Stopes clinic was heard to say on radio that backstreet abortions have not decreased. If the aim of the Act was to eliminate backstreet abortions, then what research has been funded by the Department of Health to establish whether this has, in fact, taken place?

Only measuring the amount of abortions is irresponsible. This is a twisted focus. How can more abortions be good and less be bad? In terms of the budget spending, choice of termination of pregnancy in South Africa today is clearly a lie. Some have called for stricter measures to force health care workers and doctors to perform abortions against their consciences and Hippocratic oath, and it has been reported that the department is also considering requesting that the Minister of Health review regulations and legislation to ensure greater commitment from doctors. What kind of democracy forces doctors and health workers to take lives?

Many politicians and judges have long been reluctant to outlaw abortion because it might result in illegal backstreet abortions, but one country has proved that that fear is groundless. For 44 years Poland was dominated by Russia, and abortion was not only legal, it was paid for by the government. Then, in 1993, after the iron curtain fell, the Polish parliament severely restricted abortion. The abortion rate went from 160 000 to only 250 per year.

Pro-abortion groups argue that without legal abortion women have illegal, partial abortions and then go to the hospital to finish the so-called miscarriage. Right now there are fewer gynaecological admissions in Polish hospitals than there were when abortion was legal and there are fewer women dying of gynaecological problems. Fewer women have died as a result of pregnancy and childbirth, neonatal births have declined, and induced abortions performed to save the life and health of the mother have also become more rare since abortion laws were passed.

When tracing the origins of the pro-abortion movement, we find Margaret Sanger, founder of the Planned Parenthood Association, who was inspired by her conviction that the inferior races were in fact human weeds and a menace to civilisation. She yearned for what she called ``the end of the Christian reign of benevolence’’, an end that the Eugenic socialists promised. Her greatest aspiration was to create a race of thoroughbreds. She targeted blacks, Hispanics, fundamentalists and Catholics, and set up her clinics in their respective communities.

In 1939 Margaret designed a Negro project. Her proposal asserted that the mass of Negroes, particularly in the South, still bred carelessly and disastrously.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, hon member. Ms C DUDLEY: I still have time.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Yes, I know. Hon member, are you standing on a point order?

Dr S A NKOMO: Yes, Mr Chairperson. Is the speaker debating the Vote or another topic? [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Continue hon member. That is not a point of order.

Ms C DUDLEY: One project director wrote:

There is a great danger that we will fail, because the Negroes think it is a plan for extermination. Hence, lets appear to let the coloured run it.

How can Africa have embraced such a horror? How is it that we are found co- operating in our own elimination? Aids and abortion must not be allowed to accomplish their task.

The ACDP has no choice but to vote against the Health budget. Major trauma is involved for everyone who has anything to do with an abortion, health workers and patients alike. [Interjections.] South Africa is a traumatised nation owing to its past. Now is the time for healing. We must not continue to traumatise our people. On a lighter note, I once heard a man of God say that abortion is the reason for overpopulation as God gives back tenfold, twentyfold and a hundredfold what the enemy has stolen. [Interjections.] [Time expired.]

Dr B G MBULAWA-HANS: Mr Chairperson, I am not sure whether the ACDP interprets the Bible properly because the ACDP says yes to the death penalty, but now it is discussing abortion. Maybe they should actually use the deist model of analysing the Bible to interpret in the context which it fits. [Interjections.] I think the ACDP may be in need of some lecturing. I can do that because I am doing theology privately.

Madam Speaker, hon Minister and hon members, section 27 of the Constitution states that everybody has a right to health care services.

Abantu abaninzi baseMzantsi Afrika, ngakumbi abahlala emaphandleni … people in South Africa, especially those living in the rural areas …

… no private health care facilities. So they depend mainly on public health care facilities. What the Constitution says can, therefore, only be realised if there is improvement in public health care facilities. The ten- point plan that has been developed by the department to consolidate the gains made and to strengthen the health care system is commendable.

Today I am going to concentrate on one of those priorities, and that is hospital restructuring.

Abantu abangazange bahlale ezilalini abakwazi ukuyibona into eyenziwa nguRhulumente okhokelwa yi-ANC ngenxa yokuba oko bahlala ezidolophini, befumana iimali befumana neenkonzo zempilo ezingcono. Ngoko ke abayazi into yokuba I … (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[People who have never lived in the rural areas have no idea at all of what is being done there by this ANC-led Government, because they have always lived in the urban areas enjoying financial comfort and better health services. Therefore they do not know that …]

… pital restructuring must start somewhere.

It is important to say that the situation that this Government was given by the previous regime was horrendous, to say the least. But this Government has actually improved things by restructuring these institutions. We need only see this from the commitment that the Government has shown in the allocation of budget facilities to this programme to restructure hospitals. In 1998, R100 million was budgeted for. In 1999 it was R2 200 million, and for the next two years R900 million has been set aside for this programme. Of course this is not enough for those needy hospitals. We have actually asked the Minister of Health and the Minister of Finance to look into some other way of getting more money in order to improve these institutions.

Previously, the managers of these institutions were mainly doctors who were not trained in managerial skills. Therefore, this created a problem. I think we should actually commend the department and the Ministry, as well as the task team for coming to the conclusion that CEOs should be employed to head these hospitals in order for financial management and financial accountability to continue. One can therefore only say to the department: ``Hooray! What you are doing is good for our communities out there.’’

The other issue which I think is important to say in this debate is that of the involvement of the community within those hospitals.

Abantu bakuthi kufuneka babe yinxalenye yezigqibo ezithatya thwayo ezichaphazela izibhedlele. [Our people should be involved in decision- making processes that pertain to hospitals.]

The hospital boards are doing exactly that. They are actually an extension of the community into the hospital. Those people are interested in what is happening in the hospitals. Those people are interested in actually educating the community and the society in which the hospital is situated that isibhedlele asiyondawo yokunyanga umkhuhlane. Xa ubani efuna unyango lomkhuhlane … [a hospital is not a place for the treatment of flu. When someone needs treatment for flu …] - Mr Mpehle is going to talk about that - kufuneka ahambe aye kwi … [he or she should go to a …] primary health care clinic, which is there for that. So the community is going to participate in hospital forums.

Political parties like the ACDP should actually make sure that they are involved in those issues. That is how as Christians they show a helping hand. Because they say that ukholo olungenamisebenzi lufile [faith without deeds is useless]. I think this is what the department is trying to do - extend their hand so that the community participates in whatever is happening in that hospital.

The other issue which the department is handling very well in Gauteng and the Western Cape is that of revenue retention. Here, one knows that the money that the patients pay to a particular hospital will also be used by that hospital. Therefore, the people who are there will see that the money they are paying is improving the services, so that the services are not too poor. That has actually happened in Gauteng and in the Western Cape. We think this is an invaluable contribution the department is making. This is actually assisting the people.

People have been talking about HIV/Aids at this podium. They have said quite a lot of things which Dr Jassat has addressed. I think it is important for Christian parties, such as the ACDP, to say: ``Here we are. We are assisting the department by actually promoting the fact that home- based care is there.’’ That would alleviate what is happening in the hospitals so that there is no overcrowding because when a patient occupies a bed in a hospital and there is nothing the hospital can do for him or her, it is almost like the patient staying at the Holiday Inn. One patient costs the state about R400 per day to feed. I think that those parties should actually be part and parcel of what is being done.

Let us just thank the department and the Ministry for actually looking into the public institutions that we as ordinary people are using, and let us say to the people out there that the Government of the ANC cares. [Applause.]

Dr M S MOGOBA: Hon Chair, hon Minister and hon members, the health policy of a nation is a clear indicator of its wellbeing and its future, particularly for a nation that is carrying the heavy baggage of underdevelopment from centuries of neglect and from oppression bordering on genocide.

It is common knowledge that there is a clear correlation between poverty and poor health, and between unemployment and poor medical schemes. The Government policy of free public health was clearly an inspired policy, although its implementation has been feeble, even apologetic.

Regarding the new debate on the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act, the PAC supports the growing demand that the Act should be repealed. Over 100 ANC MPs did not vote for it. They stayed away on that day when it was voted into law, because their consciences would not allow them to vote in favour of abortion on demand. [Interjections.]

The Government policy on HIV/Aids has become its albatross. Protracted equivocation on this subject was tragic in the extreme. The PAC reiterates its position that research into the cure for HIV should be intensified, and that millions spent on arms, corruption, Government parties and overseas trips should be poured into research and into providing AZT and nevirapine to pregnant mothers. It is estimated that, at a cost of R100 million, we could save at least 35 000 babies. With the current climate of compassion or common sense among pharmaceutical firms, many more could be saved.

To politicise HIV/Aids is criminal. HIV/Aids should be destigmatised. People should be screened and encouraged to declare their status. It is old fashioned and ignorant to suggest that those who have HIV/Aids are immoral. None of us in this House can be sure of escaping HIV/Aids infection forever.

The Saturday Star of last week, 3 June, carried a High Court judge’s decision in which the hon judge said that it was reasonable for a parent to take his children away from South Africa because there were dangers in South Africa, including HIV infection. I believe that this is a heart- rending decision by the High Court. It sounds like a wake-up call to this Parliament and to Government. [Time expired.]

Ms S K MNUMZANA: Mr Chairperson, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, I want to address the issue of women and health. It has been acknowledged that violence against women in South Africa takes on many forms. Such violence includes the continued disregard and denial of women’s reproductive rights. It is within this context that the department undertook the confidential enquiry into maternal deaths - an enquiry that shows that women still die, despite the provision of free health care to pregnant and lactating women and the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act of 1996.

The report into maternal deaths in South Africa indicated that there were 43 early pregnancy deaths. Of these, 26 deaths were due to complications of septic abortions. However, there appears to be significant underreporting of early pregnancy deaths. Most deaths occur in women of low parity and between the ages of 20 and 34 years.

I want to commend the Minister and Dr Eddie Mhlanga for their tireless effort to address the needs of women. The Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act of 1996 has resulted in a number of women choosing to have safe termination of pregnancy. While numbers are increasing yearly, there continues to be obstacles to women exercising their right to choose. At a briefing of the joint monitoring committee on the improvement of quality of life and status of women, Dr Mhlanga identified the following problems.

I will mention one or two of the identified problems. There are still obstacles that prevent women, particularly rural and poor women, from accessing pregnancy termination services. There is still victimisation and isolation of those that seek termination of pregnancy services. There is not enough information for women to make a choice and to know where they need to go for assistance if they choose termination of a pregnancy. Dr Mhlanga stressed that the widespread intimidation meant that, although legislation was in place to protect women’s rights to choose, they remain discriminated against.

The Department of Health revealed that a large number of facilities set up around the country to provide termination of pregnancy services, remain unused. According to the South African Health Review of 1999, of the 246 designated public health facilities, 73 are currently providing services and 99% of these are hospitals. Only two are community health care centres. In addition to the public sector facilities, there are 138 private facilities providing termination of pregnancies.

The statistics have shown that the total number of termination of pregnancies per province from February 1997 to November 1998 are as follows: Gauteng - 45 546; Mpumalanga - 5 337; Free State - 9 482; KwaZulu- Natal - 12 593; Northern Cape - 1 525; Northern Province - 2 512; Western Cape - 13 582; Eastern Cape - 8 207; North West - 2 417. In their daily life, women face the additional threat of violence, rape and abuse, and this includes people with disabilities. Reproductive health services are crucial to empowering women and giving them control over their own lives. Reproductive health is not just about women. Our challenge is to involve men in taking responsible decisions about reproductive health.

Owing to the skewed power relations between men and women, women are more vulnerable to sexually transmitted diseases and HIV infections. The female condom is a mechanism which not only provides choice but also protection. I want to ask the Minister to reconsider her stance on the female condom.

Cervical cancer and breast cancer afflict far too many women. Public education and screening are essential to protecting and improving women’s health. We need to ensure that the intended screening and awareness campaigns will be directed towards rural women and that programmes will be sustainable over time.

Most importantly, the fight against HIV/Aids and other sexually transmitted diseases requires good and accessible reproductive health services. Already the infection rates for women are staggering, and, as we know, young women are hardest hit by this terrible disease. In conclusion, I want to urge the Minister to give attention to the wide variation in the number of termination of pregnancies performed across the provinces; and I am calling on the MECs to ensure that their departments’ budgets are adequate for termination of pregnancies. Legalisation of abortion has made services more available. However access for specific groups, especially women from rural areas and adolescents, continues to cause problems. We support the Vote. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr G E BALOI: Mr Chairperson, social service expenditure remains the largest function category of the Government expenditure at approximately 57,3% of non-interest spending. Over the medium term, expenditure will grow by an average of 5,6% per year - slightly exceeding the expected inflation rates. Hospital managements are being strengthened through pilot projects to decentralise management. However, conditional grants are targeted at hospital rehabilitation and the provision of tertiary service in underserviced provinces.

The allocated amount of R6 290 000, for the year 2000-2001, represents an increase of R329 514, which is 5,53% compared to the 1999-2000 Budget. It enables the Minister to keep the hospitals in provinces. This will be unlike the closure of hospitals, like the Derdepoort community hospital, which served 14 surrounding villages.

Is this what we term Batho Pele? To me Batho Pele means ``people first’’. That means the needs of the people should be taken into consideration first. The community of Molatedi in the North West province want to retain their hospital, because it is of benefit to them and their future generations. We support the development and maintenance of our provincial hospitals.

On the other hand, we as the people of South Africa congratulate the Minister of Health and her compatriots on the efforts they make in fighting HIV/Aids. The rate of HIV/Aids is growing in big numbers in our country and it needs to be fought with everything at our disposal. HIV/Aids kills and has no colour line. Hospitals are crowded with young patients suffering from Aids-related illnesses.

The direct allocation to HIV/Aids will total R127 million in the 2000-01 departmental budget. This allocation will be used to support the Government’s Aids action plan. This project funds and supports research and disease surveillance. Our Cabinet has also approved a special allocation in the national Budget to support an integrated strategy to address the issue of HIV/Aids. With regard to this, the Department of Health will act as the lead department in collaboration with the Departments of Education, and Welfare. The UCDP supports the Vote.

Ms N M TWALA: Chairperson, our struggle in this country has been about rights - the right to live where we please, to elect our own government, to join the profession of our choice, to ownership of our land and to our destiny. As we transform all the institutions of our society, we must ensure that this emphasis is not lost. We need to be in control of our lives. We cannot simply be subject to the whims of politicians or officials, or to those who believe they know better. This is why we have committed ourselves to the national patients’ rights charter. Our Constitution guarantees us the right to a healthy and safe environment, but our rights go further than that.

We are entitled to make decisions regarding our own health. We have all seen that too often health professionals treat the least advantaged of our citizens with a lack of consideration. We have seen doctors shouting at patients because they cannot communicate in their own language. How often are patients not informed of possible alternative treatment? How often are decisions made on behalf of patients without their participation in selecting or approving the form of treatment they receive?

The patients’ rights charter represents a significant step in ensuring that patients are able to participate in decisions and policies regarding matters affecting their own health. The charter lays out clearly that everyone has the right to receive timely emergency care, that patients have the right to treatment and rehabilitation, and to be informed about the treatment they receive and its consequences. The charter specifies that all have the right to counselling without discrimination, coercion or violence on matters such as reproductive health, cancer or HIV/Aids.

These are the rights that those who have always lived a life of privilege take for granted, but they represent a major step forward for those who have always had limited access to health care. The charter represents a significant step forward in ensuring that we are all active participants in maintaining our own health. The charter includes the right to refuse treatment, to ask for a second opinion, and stresses that everyone has the right to complain about health care services and to have their complaints dealt with properly.

However, with all rights come responsibilities and the charter does not shrink from specifying this. The individual has the responsibility to take care of his or her health, and here I am going to expand a little. How empty would our hospitals be, particularly in cities, if all those who are patients as a result of alcohol abuse were not there, if all the victims of road accidents, family violence and gang violence, resulting from alcohol and drug abuse, were removed from our health system? Can hon members imagine how much stress would be removed from our public health system.

And now I come to the smokers. One can visit any chest unit and ask how many of the patients smoke or have smoked. Lung cancer, heart disease and circulation problems are all preventable diseases, preventable by healthy lifestyles. Diseases that can be controlled by diet are high blood pressure, diabetes, cardiac problems. So many of those suffering expect the health service to provide drugs, but are not prepared to make an effort to live healthy lifestyles. They would rather be dependent on drugs.

The fault does not lie exclusively with patients. Our health system is not geared towards treating the whole patient. Patients receive too little counselling about how to control their illnesses through lifestyle. All institutions of society both civil and government, must joint hands in promoting health education and healthy lifestyles. This would take some of the pressure off the health system, by focusing on prevention rather than cure.

Our Government is to be commended for the long process of producing the patients’ rights charter. It is the culmination of three years of consultation with all major stakeholders, communities, academics, health providers, the legal fraternity, professional councils, organised labour, NGOs, human rights bodies and other interested groups. Now it is up to us as leaders to ensure that we spread the message of healthy living through our constituencies. [Applause.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, Minister, the increasing cost of health care in South Africa has had a catastrophical impact both on state expenditure and the household budget of individual consumers. The historically determined social, economic and political realities of South Africa inevitably weaved a social dimension of discrimination into the health care system.

Therefore, the new democratic Government is tasked with the fundamental duty of transforming health care by restructuring the current pluralistic care system, which has contributed to the dramatic rise in the financial and social cost of health care in this country. The dual issue of unaffordability in the health care system requires the promotion of economic and financial efficiency.

The MF advocates that the goal of the Government should be to strive for health care for all. The MF supports a comprehensive community-based approach to health care and, if it is implemented correctly, this approach could make health care financially affordable and, at the same time, it could also promote equality, justice and fairness. Health care is a basic human right. Nobody must be refused the right to basic health care because of financial constraints. A community-based health care approach entails the provision of an appropriate health care service and facilities of the highest possible standard and quality at the lowest possible cost, in accordance with the actual health care needs and demands of the broad South African population in all its diversity. The most important guiding principles of community- based health care are appropriateness and relevance, acceptability, accessibility, affordability, adoptability and flexibility. When these principles are implemented, considerable attention must be given to the adaptation and alteration of the existing structure, process and practice of South African health care.

The functions of the policy framework are to make sure that the implementation of the principle of local autonomy does not integrate into anarchy, and to prevent the supporting guiding process from degenerating into stringent, bureaucratic prescriptiveness. The shift in emphasis to a socially accountable health care approach is aimed at providing a fair balance between disease care and the biomedical, technocratic model of care, and to divert more attention to sociodemographic needs. The establishment and maintenance of a communication network to distribute information to managers, medical providers and consumers of health care is necessary to facilitate community participation in health care.

State subsidisation of private health care must be strategically allocated. [Time expired.]

Ms F B MARSHOFF: Chairperson and hon Minister, the Health budget has always generated a heated debate amongst the many role-players in the health care delivery system. In this Vote debate it is evident that it has done so again today.

We cannot run away from the fact that the health status of a nation is one of the key indicators of the level of development in a country. It is therefore not surprising hon Minister that the total health care expenditure, both at national and provincial levels, has increased tremendously over the past few years. This increase in the budget allocation is to give effect to the key objective of the Department of Health, which is to promote the health of all the people in South Africa through a caring and effective national health service based on the primary health care approach. To give effect to this, the health sector has undergone major transformative changes. The shift from tertiary, curative care towards preventative primary health-care has also brought about changes in resource allocation. Although we must agree that we have experienced some setbacks in achieving our objectives, on the whole the department has done remarkably well towards achieving its goals.

I doubt whether anyone can say that there is no political commitment on the part of the Government to address the health needs of the most disadvantaged members of society, particularly at primary-care level. In order to achieve these objectives, a range of interventions has been implemented to improve upon the efficiencies of publicly funded health services. It is generally accepted that these efficiency gains will result in improved outcomes, the results of which speak speak for themselves.

One only has to go to some of these facilities and speak to the clients to realise that we have brought major changes to people’s lives. Many who have never had access to health care can now benefit from these services, especially in the rural areas and more especially women and children. The Department of Health has managed to ensure that within the limited and scarce financial resources available to them, they have managed to redirect those resources to those who need them most.

However, one of the key areas still facing us is the redistribution of health personnel to underresourced areas. This still remains the problem area, but I am confident, that the Minister will ensure that problematic areas will be addressed and that solutions will be forthcoming. It is, however, obvious that there are other crucial policy issues that need to be addressed and will need prioritisation.

Another area that needs to be addressed is the improvement in the quality and compassion of care that we provide. We have to ensure that all those involved in health care provision do so with the full understanding that this department is driven by a caring, sympathetic and empathetic ethos. To this extent, the patients’ health rights charter will go a long way in achieving these objectives.

Allow me quickly to focus on another key area within this budget, and that is the issue of conditional grants to provinces, which will constitute approximately 96% of the total programme of this budget. These amounts are allocated for, amongst other things, central hospital services, to which an amount of R3,1 billion has been allocated; health professional training and research; redistribution of specialised services; and the hospital reconstruction and rehabilitation programme.

These allocations are distributed amongst various provinces to achieve various policy objectives. It is also intended to buffer some of the provinces which have to render levels of care to provinces which do not have these facilities and levels of care within their delivery systems. To a large extent that, too, has managed to bring about a more equitable distribution of resources, especially to the poorer provinces which have had to render services to communities which have never had access to these services. This is but some of the programmes which benefit from conditional grants. There are quite a few others and I do not have time to refer to them.

We would like to urge the department to keep a watchful eye how these moneys are expended in these provinces. It has come to our knowledge through the budget hearings that there is a bit of underspending on these conditional grants in some of the provinces, and that is of concern to us. We are also aware that the department has put measures in place to ensure that this problem will be addressed and that, with improved accounting systems, moneys can be accounted for in an appropriate way.

Despite deep challenges and constraints, the health service delivery machinery is now well geared to take service delivery to new heights. We as the ANC fully support this Vote and wish the Minister and her department success in implementing all the programmes that have been identified and prioritised here today. We will support her. [Applause.]

Mr S B FARROW: Chairperson, let me focus on some of the problems relating to the state of our health services in the province. Although I note the marginal increases in health transfers to the provinces for the 2000-01 financial year, like most provincial budgets, personnel expenditure has again consumed the majority of these budgets, despite the so-called rationalisation and transformation that took place in these departments. This has resulted in a tendency for critical maintenance and repairs of buildings and equipment not to take place and the inadequacy of provincial departments to provide food and supplies.

The majority of hospitals and clinics in provinces continue to face financial crisis year after year. In some provinces, major hospitals are faced with total closure of wards, dysfunctional medical equipment, rentals on such equipment not being paid, and airconditioning in operating theatres not working and making operations very susceptible to infections. The shortage of linen is a major problem in many of these hospitals as are drugs, food and critical staff shortages, staff unqualified to deal with the technical nature of some of the equipment, frozen posts and even the irregular payment of salaries to dead employees in some of these areas. Similar problems exist in the primary health institutions, but I will not elaborate on them. In general, we hear also of low staff morale brought about by the failure of some provinces to finalise rank promotions, major thefts of drugs and equipment, corruption and unreliable delivery. Now, I am not suggesting for one minute that this is prevalent in all our provinces, but, needless to say, what I have outlined here does not in any way paint a pretty picture.

Health services in many provinces are in dire straits, to put it mildly. The question is whether the budget does address these problems in the provinces adequately. The answer to this is categorically no. Unless a major injection of funds takes place to rectify these shortfalls, many of these affected hospitals and clinics will deteriorate to the point of no return. I urge the Minister, therefore, to refocus her thinking towards fixing up that which we have before considering any further expansion programmes.

The budget is inadequate in that it is much like trying to put a Band-Aid on a serious wound of an ailing department. For example, while I respect the need to curtail the influence of tobacco smoke in public places and restaurants and bars of 35 seats or more, I question the need to regulate tobacco and its products at great cost when our hospitals and clinics need funding desperately to keep them operational.

Whether the Minister likes it or not, regulation does cost money and policing smoking will have an impact on the department’s budget, never mind the economic impact it will have on all the tobacco producers, and on advertisers and sponsors that give generously to our sports teams and clubs. This money will now have to be sourced from other funds - a case of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Tobacco production is the fifth-largest cash crop in South Africa and the sector employs 48 710 people with over 150 000 dependants. The department’s proposals to lower the limit to 1,2 mg of nicotine will lead to thousands of job losses, due to the restrictive timeframes and the difficulty to produce low-nicotine tobacco in our climatic region.

The DP has a belief that a number of the regulations are ultra vires and will, no doubt, be challenged in terms of the Constitution. We also find it difficult to believe that the department continues to try to regulate an industry and product, without looking at international practices in other countries. Sufficient time was given to the industry to implement the regulations, and practical conditions on the ground were taken into account, in order to ensure great acceptability by the stakeholders. To implement many of these regulations in the prescribed timeframe is both impractical and unreasonable.

It is impossible to remove all of the over 70 000 current point-of-sale advertisers overnight, to expect the retailers to meet the costs, and, for that matter, our belief is that to expect restaurants or bars to construct walls, to put up smoking-room signs and to ensure separate ventilation, without provision for the phasing in of the proposal, is also discriminatory and difficult to enforce.

Let me finally turn to the aspect of nurses. Nurses in this country must be in one of the most poorly paid and overworked sectors of our Public Service. For this reason, the attraction of opportunities overseas, in the private sector, has resulted in more and more of our nurses leaving the country. This is not surprising considering that many have not had promotions, despite promises, for over five years. I believe that this issue is also not adequately addressed in the budget, and it will continue to force our nurses to look for greener pastures elsewhere. [Time expired.]

Mr M MPEHLE: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, I have been sitting down, listening to the previous speaker. I want to say, quite openly, that it is tragic to sit here and listen to some intellectuals who have absolutely no semblance of honesty in so far as facts are concerned, absolutely no respect at all, for the truth.

The last speaker here has not said one good thing about this Government …

Mr M J ELLIS: Chairperson, on a point of order: I do not believe it is parliamentary for a member to stand here and say that what the opposition parties are saying has no semblance of truth. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! He was not referring to an individual member, but to a party. That is not unparliamentary. [Interjections.] Order!

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, on the same point of order: He indicated quite clearly that speaker after speaker spoke no semblance of truth, and I believe that he is referring, therefore, directly to members of these parties. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Ellis, you have said, in your first point of order, that he was referring to political parties, not to individual members. In case he did refer to individual members, let us check on the Hansard. We can rule on that matter later on.

Mr M MPEHLE: Chairperson, I am not surprised that the hon Ellis should stand up and say that, because he knows very well, deep down, that what I am saying is correct. [Applause.] It must be known, particularly by the intellectuals who only know our people when they go for votes, that before the 1994 dispensation in this country, the health system in this country was founded on a principle of a master race philosophy - a philosophy based on the Calvinistic theory of predestination.

Hon Ellis knows that himself. He knows that this theory, which was used by the white rulers in this country, believed that God had created two groups of people - one group to be saved and the other to be destroyed by fire. This was the philosophy upon which this country was ruled, and this philosophy has put into danger …

Mr C AUCAMP: Mr Chairperson, on a point of order: Is it in order for the hon member to mislead this House by giving a distorted version of what Calvinism was intended to be? Is that in order? [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! That is not a point of order. We cannot judge on that. Continue, hon member. [Interjections.]

Mr M MPEHLE: Chairperson, I will continue. I hope you realise that my time has been …

Mr J H MOMBERG: Mr Chairman, hon Cassie Aucamp would not know a communist if he saw one.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! That is not a point of order. Continue, hon member. [Interjections.] Order!

Mr M MPEHLE: Chairperson, in line with this pernicious theory, it was believed that even in South Africa, which was characterised by racialism, people would belong to these two groups. This was the fundamental belief of the apartheid regime, and nobody can turn us from that. The regime itself got that from the predestination theory of Calvin.

The health system itself was based on this, and this unacceptable situation stretches from the pro-British, post-Anglo-Boer-war regimes, right through the pro-Broederbond-orientated Malan, Verwoerd and De Klerk rules. Health for all, for these rulers, meant health for whites only in this country.

In theory, there was South African primary health care, but in reality there was no primary health care in this country. Was it possible to have a comprehensive primary health care system in a country where the Statute Book itself declared that only people of European descent should have the right to vote and be voted into Parliament? The answer is no. It was not possible to have a comprehensive primary health care system in this country, for the reasons I have stated.

In conformity with the thinking of the rulers of the country, a multiplicity of health departments was created. At least, there were 14 of these ethnic departments - each department with its own set of objectives related to and corresponding to each separate racial group in the country. All this was done in defence and in the interest of white, European, Western and Christian civilisation. [Interjections.]

The architects of this ideological concoction were either downright dishonest or blatantly ignorant of the whole question of historical evolution and the growth of human societies. To these architects, civilisation was not the creation of the peoples of the world. It was their own creation.

With regard to health, most victims and sufferers under this system were our rural communities - the real poorest of the poor. Sometimes, these are referred to by Frans Fanon as the damned of the earth or the wretched of the earth. In case we have doubts about their conditions, is it not true that this Government is presently working to take water to these people? Is it not true that lack of water and sanitation are the immediate causes of cholera, diarrhoea and other similar illnesses?

Those who do not know that there is a direct relationship between various communicable diseases, including TB, on the one hand, and the conditions of squalor and poverty on the other, should take note. According to the policy of this Government, public health has to be transformed from a fragmented, racially divided, hospital-centred service favouring the urban areas, into an integrated comprehensive national service driven by the need to redress the historical socioeconomic inequalities, and to give priority to the provision of essential care to the disadvantaged. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Chairperson, I was still saying we are also appealing to Pfizer to extend its offer to ensure an affordable package for the treatment of oropharyngeal thrush, a debilitating condition that is common in those who are infected with HIV. Let us continue to inform our nation about our response to the HIV epidemic in a sober manner, not in the rhetoric and flamboyance of the DP and the blatant ignorance displayed by Rabinowitz. [Interjections.] Gous also falls into the same category.

We look forward with keen interest to some of the ideas that will emanate from the presidential international panel on how best to tackle this epidemic on our continent. We believe that there are many compounding factors such as poverty, malnutrition, high incidence of sexually transmitted diseases, malaria and tuberculosis, which have an important effect on the pathogenesis of Aids in developing countries. A better understanding of these relationships is crucial for an appropriate and comprehensive response. We strongly believe that a successful response to HIV has to be developmental in character and extend well beyond a narrow biomedical model. In the coming weeks, we expect to get results on the Saint studies being conducted in our country comparing shorter courses of AZT with Nevirapine. In due course, I shall have a report from the researchers. Members on this side of the House know this very well. We look forward to the proposals that they may provide effective, safe and affordable interventions that will help reduce the risk of mother-to-child transmission. We shall have to deal with this matter with greater sensitivity.

None of us would not want to protect the unborn child from contracting HIV. But we also have to heed the conclusion of the World Health Organisation which says that there is currently insufficient information to recommend wide-scale implementation of Nevirapine to prevent mother-to-child transmission. Long-term follow-up of mothers and children exposed to Nevirapine or other antiretrovirals for the prevention of mother-to-child transmission is required.

It is our sincere hope that our South African studies will contribute to clarify some of the concerns that we could advance from the statement of March 2000. In the interim, as an important intervention, we have approved guidelines for obstetric care that will ensure practices that reduce mother- to-child transmission. We remain firm in the view that prevention remains the primary area of focus for us. Let us remember that there is no cure for Aids. Equally, we continue to support our scientists who are researching an appropriate vaccine. The reality is that this is at best a medium to long- term prospect. Our challenge therefore remains to deal with the reality that prevention measures constitute the only effective social vaccine at our disposal.

It is really malicious of hon Kalyan to mislead this Parliament on the so- called Aids budget roll-over. By the way, she has all the documentation. Probably, she finds it difficult to read budgets. Let us simplify it for her. [Interjections.] During the previous financial year, R110 million was allocated for HIV/Aids. By the end of March 2000, R73 000 million had been disbursed leaving R37 million. Of this amount, however, R28 million was already committed, leaving an unspent sum of only R9 million. Of the committed amounts, R8 million was for invoices not received on purchased condoms, R10 million was allocated to NGOs where verification was necessary before funds could be released, and R4 million was for outdoor advertising. The R9 million which was unspent has been earmarked for home-based care. Members know this.

This year we shall table, before members, some pieces of legislation for their consideration. We shall continue to count on their support to facilitate the consolidation of our transformation processes.

Allow me to make a few general remarks about our budget itself. Overall, the health sector is being allocated R26,8 billion. Of this amount, approximately R6,3 billion will go to the national department. Of that amount, slightly in excess of R5,7 billion will be conditional grants meant for provincial spending, leaving just below R600 million for actual spending by the national department. As the members can see, the bulk of the funds will go to the provinces where actual delivery takes place.

Among the conditional grants, we have allocated R273 million for the completion of the Durban academic hospital, recently named after iNkosi Albert Luthuli. It is our wish that the health workers in this institution emulate this outstanding leader and patriot who did so much to serve our country. An amount of R1,174 billion will be allocated for health professionals’ training and research. I have argued earlier in this address for the need for us to pay particular attention to this area of human resource development to ensure that this investment is well spent. Furthermore, we shall allocate R3,1 billion to support our major referral hospitals, whilst R176 million will be allocated to the provinces of Mpumalanga, North West, Northern Province, Eastern Cape and Northern Cape in order to assist these provinces incrementally to build their capacity to provide specialised services. We believe that we are on track, also in the provision of health care services for people with disabilities and for the elderly.

There are many difficulties ahead, but I am confident that we shall discharge our duty to our country. We shall make many mistakes on the way, but we stand ready to learn. Whatever our faults, let us never be accused of having avoided to act decisively or to confront difficult decisions only because we were lured by the comforts of office.

I wish to thank my colleagues, the MECs for health, for holding my hand as we navigated these early months together. They have enabled me to stand here with confidence in the full knowledge that what I say here today represents our collective view. Let them be assured that I do not take their support for granted. On my part, I shall be consistently sensitive to their own anxieties and concerns. I recognise the critical input of the representatives of Salga who attended our meetings.

To the Portfolio Committee on Health and its able chairperson, I reiterate my undertaking to work with them. I treasure their constructive criticism and support. The same goes to our statutory bodies, the private sector, the NGO movement and many co-operating partners, both domestic and international. I say thank you, too, to our officials in all three spheres of Government. We shall continue to depend on their loyal support and critical advice.

I would like to welcome amongst the ranks of the top management of the national department, Mrs Nthari Matsau and Dr Kamy Chetty, recently appointed as deputy directors-general. I trust that they will live up to our expectations. Their appointments are a further demonstration of our commitment to open avenues for capable women of all races to serve our nation. At the same time, I wish to say farewell and thank you to Dr Pretorius who will leave for health reasons at the end of June after a period of long, loyal service spanning 17 years. [Applause.]

Finally, I wish to pay tribute to many dedicated health workers who toil, sometimes under very difficult circumstances. They are the true and unsung heroes and heroines. Our country and people shall forever be eternally grateful to them. I would also like to thank the hon members for a lovely debate. The work towards the realisation of the African dream has just begun. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

                       PETROL PRICE STRUCTURE

                             (Statement)

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Chairperson, hon members, the subject we are about today is a subject that touches all of us. [Interjections.] The price paid by South African consumers for petrol, diesel or paraffin is directly linked to the price of crude oil. I agree. It is determined internationally by forces of supply and demand beyond the control of this Government. Over the years, the price of crude oil has shown great movement, starting from the oil crisis of 1973 when Opec started flexing its muscles. At the height of the Gulf War in 1991, the crude oil price rose to unprecedented levels of over US $30 per barrel, but dropped again at the end of that war.

The past year has been a very difficult one for consumers, not just in South Africa, I imagine, but everywhere else in the world. We did our bit as the South African Government to try to persuade our colleagues in Opec, to see if they could not produce more oil so that the price could be more manageable for consumers. We obviously have not been as successful as we would like to be, but we will continue, nevertheless.

So, during the period in question, oil prices rose from $10 per barrel in January 1999 to $30 per barrel in March this year - a 300% increase. The rand/dollar exchange rate declined at the same time by 15% and, therefore, since the pricing of oil is linked to the exchange rate between the dollar and the rand, that also had a very negative impact on what the consumers paid in the end.

Despite these massive increases in what South Africa paid for its crude oil imports, the petrol price rose by only 28% for the consumers, and I think that that is important to indicate. Countries, like us, which are not oil- producing and depend a lot on crude oil imported from other countries, saw petrol price increases and rises of up to 70% in some countries.

During the same time of difficulties - I think we must acknowledge that in South Africa - we have continued to have security of supply and efficient supply - all of which takes a lot of co-ordination and working together by the industry in order to make sure that the shocks that are created by the sudden increase in crude oil prices do not in any way create a situation in which one is standing with a spakupaku [paraffin container] outside the garage, because there is a crisis in terms of supply.

We should actually be paying over R4 per litre of petrol, but what we have done in order to cushion the consumers during this period was to take from the equalisation fund levy and subsidise the price by eight cents per litre. Using funds from the equalisation fund has somehow managed to cushion the consumers, though I will be the first one to say that we would have liked to do more.

It is true that the petrol price includes a significant portion of taxes and levies. These are the fuel tax, the customs excise duty, the Road Accident Fund and the equalisation fund. And maybe we need to realise that for us to be able to provide some of the services that are important in the whole value chain - oils and the supply of petrol- we need to provide Government with these taxes.

I would just like to explain what each of the taxes is for. The fuel tax and the customs excise levy are determined by the Minister of Finance and the income is paid into the state revenue account. They are presented to Parliament in the annual Budget speech. The Road Accident Fund levy is used to compensate victims of motor vehicle accidents and it is determined by the Minister of Transport. I am sure that members would not like us to take that one away. The equalisation fund is a fixed monetary levy determined by the Minister of Minerals and Energy in concurrence with the Minister of Finance. It operates in terms of the Central Energy Fund Act, Act 38 of

1. The income from the equalisation fund levy can be used for a variety of energy-related purposes, for instance, recently the fund has been used to cushion South Africans when the petrol price was very high, but it has also been used to afford protection to the synthetic fuels industry - Sasol and Mossgas - in terms of a specific formula.

Since February, the levy has been nil and the equalisation fund has been used to subsidise petrol and diesel prices at eight cents per litre, as I said. Three months after the fund has been passed to the public, it has almost been depleted. We may be able to manage four cents per litre subsidies in June during the present period of rapidly rising oil prices. After June we will again be in a bit of a fix.

There is no doubt that a careful and rigorous regulation of the petrol price has protected consumers in South Africa from more sudden and more rapid price increases. However, ultimately there is no escape for South Africa from the international oil prices and the rand/dollar exchange rate. That essentially is the main challenge that we are facing, and that is the reason I said that, for some of these increases, it is really beyond the South African Government and members of this House.

Members also continue to express concern about the fact that petrol costs more in South Africa than in the neighbouring countries. As I have explained, the neighbouring countries do not have these taxes that we have in South Africa, and as a result, they are forced to subsidise, in order for them to provide those services, from other taxes and other parts of their budgets. At the end of the day, in some other way, the public does pay for those services, or those services are simply not provided for in those countries. As a result, that also creates inconveniences, not only for the motorists, but for the industries that depend so heavily on this commodity.

Members have also raised the question: Can synthetic fuels not ever replace crude oils? In other words, can we not somehow see to it that the synthetic fuel that is produced by Sasol replaces the amount of crude oil that we import? I would just like to indicate to the members that the cost of manufacturing synthetic fuels and the capacity that we have in the country is such that it could have the impact of even increasing what one gets out of the pump. However, we are not closed to that idea, as long as it would work economically. At this point in time we South Africans seem to be in many ways in a position where for a long time we will continue to depend on the crude oil that we import from other countries.

We are also involved in discussing the bringing in of other sources of energy carriers in the country, particularly gas, and in that way, in an integrated energy plan that petrol users depend on, they may be able to find a situation in which gas will, in some cases, replace the liquid fuel that they use. In that way, they may be able to effect some savings.

The issue of the price of petrol is complex. As long as we do not have our own crude oil in South Africa, we will be faced with these challenges, and as long as we have to, amongst other things, depend on the exchange rate between the rand and the dollar, we will always have these problems, because that will also make a great impact. And I would like to assure members that in any way in which we could save and ensure that we reduce the negative impact, especially amongst those consumers who use diesel and paraffin - who tend to be our poorest - we will always make sure that we use whatever is in our power to cushion the price. [Applause.]

Mr R J HEINE: Mr Chairman and hon members, it is perhaps an example of the Government’s impeccable timing that when the prospect of another fuel price increase is brought before this House, the very parliamentarians who sit on the minerals and energy affairs portfolio committee are on tour around the country. While there is no questioning the value of these visits in the greater scheme of things, our hon minerals and energy affairs colleagues should be in this House leading this debate, and not looking at coal mines in Middelburg and platinum mines in Rustenburg. Now is not the time for feel-good public relations exercises. [Interjections.]

From tomorrow night, millions of South Africans are going to be hit even harder when the petrol price goes up for the second time in as many months. April saw the fuel price jump 35 cents to a record high of 322 cents per litre. When the sun comes up on Thursday morning, Mr Smith will pay eight cents more per litre when he fills up his car and Mrs Khumalo will probably have to fork out more for her child’s bus fare to school. As companies pass on the added cost of transporting bread and milk, potatoes and mealie meal, so will consumers begin to feel the pinch even more.

In April we were led to believe that the petrol price increase would be a temporary measure only, that the price would come back down and that we would not pour even more of our hard-earned rands into our petrol tanks. Now, eight weeks later, we are meant to brace ourselves for another hike. Then, to add insult to injury, rumours abound that there will be another increase next month. Where will this all end?

Personally I am tired of the Government’s saying that South Africa still has one of the lowest fuel prices in the world. We accept that the fuel price is sensitive to the dollar price of crude oil and that therefore blame cannot be entirely shouldered by the Government. However, fuel is probably the last commodity vital to the economy which is still regulated, and it is clear that the way prices are determined has the effect of boosting the consumer price of fuel.

We have to ask ourselves why fuel at the pump is 50 to 60 cents cheaper in neighbouring states, despite the fact that they do not have a synfuel producer such as Sasol and Mossgas, which produce 40% of our fuel requirement. These anomalies need to be answered, and part of the answer lies in the fact that our industry is regulated and structured in a way that has produced effective monopolies in the supply chain.

The first anomaly on which I am pleased to say that Government has finally acted is the levy of eight cents a litre for the equalisation fund, which was used to subsidise Sasol and Mossgas when the oil price dropped below certain levels. The direct subsidy came to about R1,5 billion a year, but because synfuel makes up 40% of all fuel produced in South Africa, and because this levy is paid on all fuel produced in South Africa, Sasol and Mossgas received not just eight cents a litre, but an effective 20 cents a litre on their own production.

During the past decade something in the region of R8 billion of taxpayers money has been paid to Sasol by way of subsidy. The original agreement which provided for the subsidy was designed, and rightly so, to make Sasol viable in the event of low crude oil prices or a high value of the rand. But the agreement also provided for Sasol to contribute back to the fund when the dollar price of oil was above a certain level. Since the ANC Government came to power, no contribution has been received from Sasol despite the fact that the dollar price of oil has been above the critical level. Government needs to explain why this vital clause in the agreement has disappeared, to the detriment of the consumer.

Also in urgent need of attention is the distortion caused by the arbitrary price-fixing by monopolies such as the pipeline and rail systems. To hold down costs throughout the country, the cost of transporting fuel has to be competitive and tariffs set at a realistic levels. A further question which has to be answered is why South Africa’s fuel price is still based on a formula for crude in Bahrain and Singapore while it can be obtained at lower prices elsewhere. Oil that is cheap, partly owing to minimal transportation costs, can be sourced from Angola, but the oil price is still calculated according to the old formula. Another anomaly that needs to be rectified is the customs and excise duty of four cents a litre on fuel even though 40% of the country’s requirement is produced locally by Sasol and Mossgas.

Finally, the status and the enforceability of the Ratplan need to be discussed as a matter of urgency. Petrol stations are springing up all over the place, resulting in uneconomic levels of pump throughput and in an average loss for the fuel retailer of approximately 0,7 cents a litre. This is unsustainable and just adds to inefficiency in the industry and ultimately a further demand for higher fuel prices at the pump. Clearly, the industry has to be restructured and reregulated as a matter of urgency. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Rev K M ZONDI: Chairperson, this is one debate which is very difficult to enter if one intends to score political points. I say so because this issue is not one in which we can do what we like, as the hon the Minister informed us here of a very difficult tightrope which we have to walk.

The impending rise in the price of fuel indicates the deep crisis into which our economy is in danger of sliding. For the poorest of the poor this will be a difficult blow to take. We all know what the consequence of this will be: higher food prices, especially those of basic commodities that a population already struggling under rising levels of unemployment and poverty will not be able to afford.

We know that there are no easy answers, especially because the price of fuel is largely determined by currency fluctuations linked to the US dollar. As the rand continues to take a hammering and as it glides on a downward slide, it is inevitable that the price of crude oil will shoot up to levels that make motoring and transportation very expensive undertakings indeed.

We in the IFP believe that the time has come for the Ministry to face this problem head-on - not that they have not been doing so, but so that this matter can be put on the national agenda for this country once and for all. We believe the time has come for a firm policy to be developed, a policy that will give practical guidance on the necessary practical steps that need to be taken to bring this problem to surmountable levels. We believe that this is a national challenge that requires a solid national response. Perhaps this is not the time to give our own uninformed knee-jerk reactions, trying to advise the Government what to do.

That is why we suggest that this is perhaps a time to consider a national indaba on this matter, because it renders our entire economy painfully vulnerable. We think that the hon the Minister, in fact, if she had the wherewithal, would keep the price down, but we need to carry our communities so as to be able to explain to them in very uncomplicated terms why we have this national debacle.

Mnr F BEUKMAN: Mnr die Voorsitter, daar is twee tipes faktore wat daartoe bydra dat die prys van petrol styg; eerstens eksterne en tweedens interne faktore. Die Minister het verwys na die eksterne faktore en die sentrale Regering het weinig beheer hieroor. Dit sluit in ‘n hoë prys van olie op internasionale markte, die optrede van Opul en die regulering van produksie, aanbod- en aanvraagtendense op die mark en internasionale politieke gebeure.

Wat die interne faktore betref, glo die Nuwe NP, moet die Regering egter ‘n deel van die blaam kry vir die verhoging in die petrolprys. Eerstens maak die belastinggedeelte van die petrolprys ‘n groot gedeelte van die bedrag per liter uit wat die verbruikers moet betaal, en die Minister het daarna verwys. Tweedens is daar die verswakking van die rand teenoor die Amerikaanse dollar op ‘n jaarbasis. Omdat ons in dollar vir ru-olie betaal, gaan die verdere verswakking van die rand in die volgende ses maande ‘n geweldig negatiewe invloed op die Suid-Afrikaanse ekonomie hê, soos ‘n verhoging in die inflasiekoers, toenemende druk op rentekoerse, ‘n algehele verlaging in sakevertroue en ‘n moontlike inkrimping van ekonomiese groei.

Wat egter direk tot die rand se daling en die uitvloei van kapitaal bydra is die negatiewe stemming oor Zimbabwe, asook beter opbrengsgeleenthede in Noord- en Suid-Amerika. Fondsbestuurders se vertroue in Suider-Afrika is weens die Mugabe-faktor negatief. Hierdie negatiwiteit gaan voortduur totdat daar ‘n herstel van die regstaat, die erkenning van private eiendomsreg en ‘n beëindiging van moord en doodslag in dié betrokke SAOG- staat is. Dit is hier waar die Mbeki-faktor bepalend is. President Mbeki sal baie sterker leiding moet neem om fondsbestuurders te oortuig dat Suider-Afrika, waaronder Zimbabwe, ‘n veilige plek vir belegging en ‘n beter opbrengs as ander opkomende markte inhou.

Derdens verwys ek na die huidige verwarring oor die data wat deur die Departement van Minerale en Energie gebruik word om die maandelikse veranderings in petrol- en dieselpryse te bepaal. Volgens ‘n berig in die Business Day van vandag het ‘n amptenaar van dié betrokke departement sy uiterste kommer uitgespreek oor die groot verskil tussen ongeouditeerde internasionale produkdata wat op ‘n daaglikse basis deur die Sentrale Energiefonds geouditeer word en die finale syfers waarop die prys gebaseer word.

Die Nuwe NP wil ‘n dringende beroep op die Minister doen om hulle huis in die departement en die energiefamilie in orde te kry. Om in hierdie laat stadium na alternatiewe bronne van informasie te kyk weens die huidige druk van die petrolprysdebat is onaanvaarbaar. Die Minister moet toesien dat ‘n behoorlike ouditering van die berekening van die petrolprys en die betrokke meganismes plaasvind.

Ten slotte, die Nuwe NP is van mening dat daar op die kort en medium termyn drie proaktiewe stappe is wat die Regering kan doen: eerstens, ‘n tydelike verlaging in die belasting op brandstof van 8 sent tot 10 sent; tweedens, die behoorlike hantering van die Zimbabwiese krisis om sodoende by te dra dat die rand verstewig teenoor die Amerikaanse dollar; en, derdens, ‘n behoorlike hersiening en ouditering van die berekeningsmetodes van die Sentrale Energiefonds en die departement in die vasstelling van die pompprys van brandstof. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr F BEUKMAN: Mr Chairperson, there are two types of factors which contribute to the price of petrol rising; firstly external and secondly internal factors. The Minister referred to the external factors and central Government has little control over these. They include a high price of oil on international markets, the activities of Opec and the regulation of production, supply and demand trends in the market, and international political events.

However, as far as the internal factors are concerned, the New NP believes that the Government should bear part of the blame for the increase in the petrol price. Firstly, the tax portion of the petrol price constitutes a large part of the amount per litre which consumers have to pay, and the Minister has referred to this. Secondly, there is the weakening of the rand against the American dollar on an annual basis. Due to the fact that we pay for crude oil in dollars the further weakening of the rand in the next six months is going to have a tremendously negative impact on the South African economy, such as an increase in the inflation rate, increasing pressure on interest rates, a general reduction in business confidence and a possible decline in economic growth.

However, what is contributing directly to the rand’s decline and the outflow of capital is the negative mood regarding Zimbabwe, as well as improved opportunities for returns in North and South America. Fund managers’ confidence in Southern Africa is negative as a result of the Mugabe factor. This negativity will continue until there is a restoration of the constitutional state, the recognition of private property rights and an end to extreme violence in this particular SADC state. It is here that the Mbeki factor is a determining one. President Mbeki will have to give much firmer guidance in convincing fund managers that Southern Africa, including Zimbabwe, constitutes a safe place for investment and better returns than other emerging markets.

Thirdly, I want to refer to the current confusion about the data used by the Department of Minerals and Energy to determine the monthly adjustments in petrol and diesel prices. According to a report in Business Day of today, an official from this particular department expressed his extreme concern about the big difference between unaudited international product data which is audited by the Central Energy Fund on a daily basis, and the final figures on which the price is based.

The New NP wants to direct an urgent appeal to the Minister to get their house in the department and in the energy family in order. It is unacceptable at this late stage to look at alternative sources of information as a result of the current pressure of the petrol price debate. The Minister must see to it that a proper audit of the calculation of the petrol price and the relevant mechanisms takes place.

In conclusion the New NP is of the opinion that in the short and medium term there are three proactive steps which the Government can take. Firstly, a temporary reduction in the tax on petrol of from 8 cents to 10 cents; secondly, the efficient handling of the Zimbabwean crisis, in order to contribute to the rand stabilising against the American dollar; and, thirdly, a comprehensive review and audit of the calculation methods of the Central Energy Fund and the department in determining the pump price of petrol.]

Mr M N RAMODIKE: Mr Chairperson, the Minister confirmed, a moment ago, that problems encountered by South Africa in terms of the escalation of the crude oil and petrol price are related to the rand and dollar exchange rate. This statement by the Minister will therefore further confirm that inflation is on the rise and that the already exorbitant price of fuel in South Africa is playing a major role in this regard.

It is therefore further evident that higher cost in consumer products will lead to the Reserve Bank having no option but to increase interest rates and then the consumer will have to bear the brunt of that as well. While we would sympathise and agree with the hon the Minister that this is a worldwide problem, the UDM believes that the problem could be surmountable and would involve, indeed, a lot of intensive research.

The recent announcement of a further rise in the price of petrol comes as a shock to consumers and, in particular, to commuters who travel long distances to and from their places of work on a daily basis. There is a direct social impact of the continuous increase in the price of petrol on millions of disadvantaged people in the poverty-stricken areas.

We would like to re-emphasise that the Government cannot, indeed, fold its arms and say that this is a worldwide problem and nothing can be done about it. True enough, the Government has, to some extent, tried to find ways and means to resolve this crisis, but I believe it is still necessary to continuously explore ways and means to resolve these problems.

Ms C DUDLEY: Mr Chairperson, as a member of the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy, I would like to just put on record that the portfolio committee trips that I have been involved in have been incredibly enlightening and very fruitful and very important, I think, to the job that we have to do. [Applause.]

I would also like to say that the ACDP has confidence in the Minister, and we realise that serious and difficult decisions have to be made for the secure and efficient supply of fuel. Of course, issues that affect the value of the rand are, we feel, the most critical. Notably, of course, the negative sentiment caused by the President’s attitude towards the present situation in Zimbabwe, has had obvious repercussions.

One other thought is that, in the light of the incredible success that the South African Revenue Services have had in collecting taxes, we as the ACDP, feel that perhaps the tax on petrol should be reconsidered. Generally, we know that the public of South Africa has an incredible burden in terms of taxes, and perhaps this is an area that can be looked at.

Dr C P MULDER: Mnr die Voorsitter, vanaf môreaand 12:00 sal sommige motoriste in Suid-Afrika R3,30 per liter petrol betaal, en dit terwyl mense in ons buurlande, byvoorbeeld Swaziland, petrol kan koop teen R2,49 per liter. In Lesotho is petrol selfs R1 goedkoper as in Suid-Afrika, en so kan ek voortgaan. [Tussenwerpsels.] Ek het gehoor waaroor dit gaan, en ek sal dit nou aan daardie agb lid verduidelik.

Dit is wel so dat die olieproduserende state olieproduksie ingekort het met die doel om ‘n tekort te skep sodat die internasionale olieprys kon styg. Dit is vanselfsprekend so dat dit vir Suid-Afrika, wat 70% van sy olie moet invoer, probleme skep. Hy doen sy aankope op die internasionale mark, wat aan voortdurende prysskommelings onderhewig is, en dit is inderdaad so dat die wisselkoers van die rand teenoor die dollar alle waarskynlikheid nie gaan beter word nie, maar eerder swakker.

Die probleem is, buiten die basiese koste van brandstof, is die ander grootste gedeelte van die brandstofprys die talle heffings en belastings wat die staat op die brandstofprys hef. Tans is dit ongeveer 114 sent per liter, wat soos volg bereken word: ‘n basiese brandstofbelasting van 95,6 sent per liter, ‘n doeaneheffing van 4 sent per liter, en ‘n heffing van 14,5 sent per liter wat gebruik word vir die Padongelukfonds.

Dit mag so wees dat daar ‘n tyd was dat die brandstofprys baie effektief gebruik kon word vir belastings, en wel toe die prys laer was. Dit is inderdaad so dat die prys as gevolg van ander faktore nou só hoog geword het dat dit nie meer ‘n gerieflike manier is om belasting in te vorder nie. Die effek daarvan is vernietigend vir die Suid-Afrikaanse ekonomie en vir baie mense.

Op 28 Maart 2000 is in Beeld gerapporteer dat die Minister geantwoord het dat daar in Suid-Afrika in daardie stadium ‘n oorvloed brandstof was, en dat Suid-Afrika brandstof na 17 Afrikastate uitvoer, naamlik Tanzanië, die Ivoorkus, Uganda, Malawi, Kenia en andere. Die punt is, die prys waarteen daardie brandstof uitgevoer is, was in sekere gevalle maar net 16 sent per liter vir diesel. Aan Zimbabwe is dit gelewer teen 58 sent per liter. Die vraag is, waarom betaal party ander state soveel minder, en hoekom voer Suid-Afrika in elk geval potensiële belasting ter waarde van R520 miljoen uit? Die Regering sal drasties ‘n plan hier moet maak. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Dr C P MULDER: Mr Chairperson, from midnight tomorrow night some motorists in South Africa will be paying R3,30 per litre of petrol, whereas people in neighbouring countries, for example Swaziland, can buy petrol for R2,49 per litre. In Lesotho petrol is even R1 cheaper than in South Africa, and so I can go on. [Interjections.] I have heard what is at issue, and I will now explain it to that hon member.

It is a fact that the oil-producing states have cut back on oil production with the objective of creating a shortage, so that the international oil price can rise. It goes without saying that this causes problems for South Africa, which must import 70% of its oil. It makes its purchases on the international market, which is subject to constant price fluctuations, and the fact is that the exchange rate of the rand as against the dollar is in all probability not going to improve, but is going to worsen instead.

The problem is that, apart from the basic cost of fuel, the largest remaining part of the fuel price consists of the many levies and taxes which the state imposes on the fuel price. At present this totals approximately 114 cents per litre, which is calculated as follows: a basic fuel tax of 95,6 cents per litre, an excise levy of 4 cents per litre, and a levy of 14,5 cents per litre which is used for the Road Accident Fund.

It may be true that there was a time when the fuel price could be used very effectively for taxes, and this was indeed the case when the price was lower. It is a fact that the price has now become so high as a result of other factors that this is no longer a convenient way of collecting tax. This has a destructive effect on the South African economy and on many people.

On 28 March 2000 it was reported in Beeld that the Minister had replied that at that stage there was a fuel surplus in South Africa, and that South Africa was exporting fuel to 17 African states, namely Tanzania, the Ivory Coast, Uganda, Malawi, Kenya and others. The point is, the price at which that fuel was exported, was in certain cases a mere 16 cents per litre for diesel. It was supplied to Zimbabwe for 58 cents a litre. The question is, why do some other states pay so much less, and why is South Africa exporting potential tax to the value of R520 million in any case? The Government will have to make a drastic plan in this regard. [Time expired.]]

Mrs P DE LILLE: Mr Chairperson, I would like to address one area today that nobody seems to be addressing or wants to touch on, and that is the ownership of the oil companies and the oil industries. South African oil industries are run and controlled by foreign companies who make decisions affecting this nation in their coffee clubs. Perhaps we need to investigate them. They control entry into the market, and today, I want to appeal to the Minister of Minerals and Energy to speed up the entry of new South African companies into the oil market, because that will also bring about a decrease in the price of petrol, and real competition will take place and not the artificial competition that we are seeing at the moment.

Coming back to the subsidies, the PAC feels that the subsidies should be directed at the poorest of the poor. What are the areas that directly affect the poor? Firstly, it is public transport, and we appeal to Government to find a way to directly subsidise public transport. Secondly, paraffin is also very important because the poor depend on it for so many purposes such as cooking and heating.

The value of the rand alone cannot be blamed for the high fuel price because when there is an improvement in the value of the rand, we do not always see a decrease in the petrol price. I hope that the Minister is trying her best to keep the prices as low as possible, but I think we need to do more to, at least, cover the poorest of the poor.

Miss S RAJBALLY: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister, the recent rise in the oil price has directly resulted in the increase in the retail petrol price throughout the African continent. Fuel is an unavoidable element which critically affects the South African economy. Therefore the Government must exercise a viable strategy to immediately speed up the process of deregulating and restructuring the fuel industry.

The consumer consumption of fuel generates countless transactions in the marketplace every single day between buyers and sellers of goods and services. The delivery of almost every single product depends on fuel which literally makes the necessity of fuel the master of the economy. That is why it is important that the Government should promote public understanding about the dynamic nature of the fuel market. In order to maintain reasonable price control on fuel under diverse economic conditions, the pricing of fuel requires a holistic restructuring and the taxing of fuel must be subjected to periodic adjustment, depending on both national and international market conditions and the state revenue needs.

The monopolisation of price-fixing by major refiners or marketers must be monitored under the guidance of a national energy policy framework. To achieve this major role, roleplayers must be involved in the oil-price regulation. The customs and excise duty on Sasol’s production must be reviewed where necessary. The fuel industry must experience the economic liberty to source oil at lower prices anywhere on the international market. Appropriate deregulation and restructuring of the fuel industry have the potential to reduce the fuel price, thus protecting South Africa and the economy from a sharp decline.

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mnr die Voorsitter, die brandstofprys in Suid-Afrika is onaanvaarbaar hoog. Weer eens moes die Minister keer vir haar paaltjies oor die brandstofprys, en hoeveel verklarings en verskonings is nie alreeds daarvoor aangebied nie! Telkens word die fout op die verkeerde plek gesoek. Ja, die wisselkoers en die prys van ru-olie het ‘n effek, maar dit is net ‘n halwe deel van die waarheid.

Die grondliggende rede vir ons astronomiese brandstofpryse is eenvoudig dat brandstof op ‘n misplaaste wyse aangewend word as bron van belastinginkomste. Die staatsheffing is eenvoudig te hoog, en daardeur word ‘n bepaalde segment van die ekonomie onbillik en eensydig belas. As die verbruiker waarde vir sy rand teruggekry het in die vorm van beter infrastruktuur, sou ‘n mens dit nog kon verstaan. Die teendeel is egter waar. Elke provinsie in Suid-Afrika het seker 20 dorpe met die naam ``Potholes’’, want dit pryk op haas elke pad in die land. Daar is geen aanduiding dat hierdie fondse aangewend word vir beter vervoerstrukture nie.

Die enigste ontwikkeling in ons paaienetwerk is dié van geprivatiseerde tolpaaie waar die publiek weer eens moet uithaal en wys. ‘n Uitstappie van Pretoria na Louis Trichardt en terug kos die motoris nou al R100 aan tolgeld alleen.

Ek het nog ‘n paar vrae. Waarom ontvang die padgebruiker geen voordeel uit Sasol nie, wat vroeër wel om strategiese redes bedryf is, al was dit teen ‘n verlies, maar nou aansienlik goedkoper brandstof produseer? Waarom word brandstof tweedens uitgevoer na byvoorbeeld die DRK en Zimbabwe teen minder as ‘n derde van wat die Suid-Afrikaanse motoris daarvoor moet betaal? Is dit om Kabila se oorlog en Mugabe se manewales te finansier? Hoekom kan ons nie eerder hierdie voorraad opbou vir wanneer die pryse styg nie?

Laastens wil ek ‘n ernstige beroep doen op die Minister dat diesel vir landboudoeleindes weer gesubsidieer moet word soos vir die visbedryf. Die onlangse oorstromings het die kommersiële landbou in Suid-Afrika in ‘n bestaanskrisis gedompel en elke beskikbare maatreël van verligting moet aangewend word. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Mr Chairperson, the petrol price in South Africa is unacceptably high. Once again the Minister had to guard her wicket concerning the petrol price, and how many statements and excuses have not already been provided! Time and again the fault is sought in the wrong place. Yes, the exchange rate and the price of crude oil have an effect, but that is only half the truth.

The underlying reason for our astronomical petrol price is simply that petrol is being used in an inappropriate manner as a source of tax revenue. The Government levy is simply too high, and because of that a certain segment of the economy is being unfairly and one-sidedly taxed. If the consumer received value for his rand in the form of better infrastructure, one could still understand it. However, the opposite is true.

Every province in South Africa probably has 20 towns with the name ``Potholes’’, because this sign appears on virtually every road in the country. There is no indication that these funds will be utilised for better transport structures. The only development in our road network is privatised toll roads, where the public must once again pay their way. An excursion from Pretoria to Louis Trichardt and back now costs the motorist R100 in toll money alone.

I have a few more questions. Why does the road user not receive any benefit from Sasol, which was previously operated for strategic reasons, although at a loss, but is now producing considerably cheaper petrol? Secondly, why is petrol being exported to the DRC and Zimbabwe, for example, for less than a third of what the South African motorist must pay for it? Is it to finance Kabila’s war and Mugabe’s antics? Why can we not rather build up these supplies for when the prices rise?

Lastly, I want to make a serious appeal to the Minister for diesel for agricultural purposes to be subsidised again, as it is for the fishing industry. The recent floods have plunged commercial agriculture in South Africa into a crisis that threatens its very existence, and every available measure of relief should be applied. [Time expired.]]

Mnu D M NKOSI: Sihlalo, kuMnu uHeine we-DP ngithi makangathi uma eswele angakusho azodakelwa ekomidini. Makasebenzele kude nathi. Asivakashile futhi asidlali, siyasebenza ekomidini.

Asiwukhiqizi uwoyela lapha eNingizimu Afrika kodwa siyawuthenga. Ekuthengeni kwethu uwoyela kufanele sizame ukulinganisa izindlela esisebenza ngazo ngokomnotho wezwe. Uma sithenga, kufanele sithenge ngokwesivumelwano senani langempela eliyintengo yokuthenga. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr D M NKOSI: Chairperson, I would like to warn Mr Heine of the DP that if he does not know what to say, he must not come to our committee to talk nonsense. He must work far from us. We are here neither to pay a visit nor the play. We are really working in our committee.

In South Africa we do not produce oil, instead we import it. Whenever we buy, we must ensure that we equalise our buying method with the economic situation of the country. When we buy, we must ensure that we buy at an acceptable price.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I do not hear any interpretation of this. I wonder whether they can sort it out quickly. [Interjections.]

Mr D M NKOSI: Sihlalo, angazi noma sengingaqhubeka yini? [Chairperson, I am not sure at the moment. May I proceed?]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Continue, hon member.

Mnu D M NKOSI: Sihlalo, enye indlela ebalulekile okusetshenziswa ngayo uwoyela ngukusetshenziswa kukawoyela ogciniwe okuthiwa yi-strategic stockpile, ukuze sizivikele njengeNingizimu Afrika uma intengo kawoyela iphakeme kakhulu, futhi uwoyela siwuthenge uma intengo yehlile. Ingxaki esingaba nayo sekungaba ngeyesikhathi ukuthi kwenzeka nini lokho.

Kubalulekile ukuthi nalabo abasebenza ngowoyela basebenze kangcono uma bethutha uwoyela usuka lapho ukhiqizwa khona ukuze uye lapho siwudinga khona. Izikhungo lapho imikhumbi isebenzela khona kudingeka zithuthukiswe ukuze uwoyela ungachithekeli olwandle.

Kufanele indlela yentengo kaphethilolo iguqulwe ngoba njengamanje sisasebenzisa indlela endala yombuso wencindezelo. Kukhona ukuthi mhlawumbe ngaphambilini kwakuvikelwa izindlela zokusebenza zika-Sasol no-Mossgas ukwenza indlela yokuthi lezi zinkampani ziqhubeke zibe ngezikhiqizayo noma zingakhiqizi ngendlela efanele. Indaba efana neye-Equalisation Fund kufanele sibone ukuthi siyayichitha. Inselelo esibhekene nayo ngeyokuthi uma senza noma yiluphi uguquko, silwenze ngendlela ephelele, singachibiyeli. Kufanele senze uhlelo lwentengiso oluzosekela ukuthuthuka komnotho wezwe lakithi. Uguquko nanoma yiluphi luzoba nezingqinamba zalo. Kuzoba khona amathuba nezinselelo. Izinselelo yilezi ezilandelayo: Imboni kawoyela kuzokwenzeka ukuthi ingayitholi le nzuzo ejwayele ukuyithola. Okunye ngukuthi osomabhizinisi bakawoyela abamnyama abasafufusa bazodonsa kanzima noma bavale izitolo zabo. Amathuba wona angaba ngukuthi intengo kawoyela noma kaphethilolo, upharafini nodizili, izokwehla. Lokho sikubona kuyithuba. Umnotho wezwe uzothuthuka. Abasemaphandleni, abahluphekayo nalabo mhlawumbe abahlulekayo ngokomnotho bazokwazi ukuthenga ngentengo ephansi, impilo ibe ngcono.

Ukuba phezulu kwentengo kawoyela kukhuphula intengo kapharafini, kaphethilolo kanye nekadizili. Impumelelo yohlelo lwentengo kawoyela izoya ngokuthi abantu abanolwazi basebenza kanjani ekuthuthukiseni umnotho.

Ngicela ukusho kuNgqongqoshe ukuthi, njengekomidi, sizolindela ukubonisana naye ngendlela entsha ephelele yokuthi mhlawumbe njengoba ikhuphuka intengo kaphethilolo, uwoyela, udizili nopharafini, yini esingayenza ukuthi senze uhlelo lokuthenga uwoyela emazweni angaphandle ngoba asiwukhiqizi lapha ukuze ube ngendlela ezokwazi ukuthi abantu basekhaya lapha eNingizimu Afrika bahlomule. Okufanele sikwenze ukuthi lonke uhlelo njengoba silubekile, luguquke ngokuphelele; kungabi ngukuthi mhlawumbe sizochibiyela sithi sivala izikhala ngoba uma sichibiyela kuzokonakala kakhulu. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr D M NKOSI: Chairperson, another important way of using petrol is to use the oil that is kept in the strategic stockpile if the oil price is high. This will enable us as a country to save money because we will be buying only if the oil price is low. The problem that we might have will be with the timeframe, as we never know when the price will go up.

It is important for those who transport oil to do their work more efficiently when they transport oil from oil industries to oil stations. Harbours should be improved so that oil will not spill into the sea.

We should now change the apartheid government’s way of buying oil. It is true that its way was followed by Sasol and Mossgas and it was protected so that these companies would continue to produce oil even though they did not produce it in a satisfactory manner. That issue of the Equilisation Fund must be got rid of.

The challenge that we are facing, is that whatever change we make, should be completed. There should be no need to amend it in future. We must devise a trading plan that will support the growth of the economy of our country. Any change will create some problems. We might face the following challenges: The oil industry might not get the profit it used to get in the past. Another challenge will be that new black business people in the oil industry will face severe problems, some will even think of closing down their shops. The advantages will be that prices of oil, petrol, paraffin and diesel will decrease. We see this as an opportunity to improve our economy. Rural and poor people will be able to buy oil at a cheaper price. This will enable their lives to improve.

When the oil price increases, the prices of paraffin, petrol and diesel follow suit. Our success in bringing down the oil price depends on the success of knowledgeable people in improving the economy of our country.

I would like to inform the hon the Minister that as a committee we will wait until we have consulted with her regarding the course of action as far as the increase of oil prices is concerned. How should we improve our importing of petrol into South Africa so that people of this country will gain as we do not produce petrol in this country? We need to change the whole process completely, as we have done before. We should not amend anything because that will hinder the progress of other things. [Applause.]]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I am sorry that there was no full interpretation for that. It was arranged but the interpreter was not there. I hope the translated version will appear in the Hansard.

Debate concluded.

Business suspended at 12:41 and resumed at 14:03.

                          Afternoon Sitting

                          NOTICES OF MOTION Mr R S NTULI: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the DP and other organisations and individuals highlighted the
       problems associated with Curriculum 2005 in 1998 and predicted
       that it would collapse; and

   (b)  the former Minister of Education labelled critics of the
       curriculum as ``reactionary forces'' and stated that ``the only
       crisis in education was a crisis for previously advantaged South
       Africans who do not want things to change'';

(2) welcomes the recognition by the Minister of Education that criticism by the DP and others was founded on a sound factual basis rather than on racism; and

(3) urges that the new Curriculum 21 be drawn up by experts who fully and properly understand the needs of South Africa and the expectations of teachers, pupils and parents, and that its implementation takes place when teachers have been properly trained.

[Time expired.]

Ms C C MAHLALELA: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  that a powerful earthquake and dozens of strong aftershocks
       struck the Indonesian island of Sumatra; and

   (b)  that at least 48 people were killed, hundreds were injured and
       thousands were left homeless;

(2) sends its sympathies and condolences to the families of the deceased; and

(3) calls on the UN and other parastatals to assist in rebuilding the affected communities.

[Applause.]

Mrs L R MBUYAZI: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) recognises that environmental protection and nature conservation have a longstanding tradition within the African community;

(2) notes that part of this tradition is exemplary embodied in the work and philosophy of Dr M G Buthelezi, who, throughout his life, has been an environmentalist before it became fashionable and when a concern for animals and plants was often ridiculed when adopted by people of his calibre;

(3) further notes that Minister Buthelezi -

   (a)  became the patron of some of the first environmental
       associations of South Africa, such as the Elephant and Rhino
       Foundation, and developed advanced concepts and projects of
       nature conservation based on the notion of the participation of
       communities with a stake in nature conservation;

   (b)  co-operated with international organisations promoting
       environmental management based on the responsible ...

[Time expired.]

Ms G L MAHLANGU: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) congratulates -

   (a)  Minister Valli Moosa on the excellent work done in raising the
       profile of environmental issues and in particular on his
       exhaustive programme during this year's Environmental Week; and

   (b)  the Minister on the release of the White Paper on Integrated
       Pollution and Waste Management, including the announcement of
       plastic bag regulation, and the launch this morning of the White
       Paper on Coastal Management; and

(2) notes that these policy statements provide a blueprint for the country to achieve the national objective of efficient and effective management of our country’s resources.

Dr S J GOUS: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that, as the New NP predicted -

   (a)  many health workers refuse to assist with legal abortions;

   (b)  more illegal abortions are now being done than before the Choice
       on Termination of Pregnancy Act;

   (c)  nobody has been investigated, charged, prosecuted or found
       guilty in terms of the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act;
       and

   (d)  it is now a free for all;

(2) further notes that -

   (a)  abortion legislation is misused by corrupt health workers;

   (b)  Misoprostol, a medicine with known teratogenic effects, is
       widely used as an abortifacient in state institutions, despite
       it not being registered for that purpose by the patent holder;

   (c)  the Minister of Health has urged health workers to put duty
       before their beliefs, which is nothing else but intimidation and
       a threat; and

   (d)  it is a right of health workers not to participate in any form
       of abortion for whatever reason, and they can therefore ignore
       the Minister of Health;

(3) notes that the New NP reiterates its position that abortion on demand without considering other factors is doomed to failure; and

(4) therefore calls on the Minister of Health to refrain from prescribing to health workers, as it serves no purpose other than to hide the Government’s embarrassment with the failure of its idealistic, controversial abortion legislation.

[Time expired.]

Mr S J DE BEER: Chairperson, I give notice that at the next sitting of the House I will move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) notes the findings of the committee set up by the Minister of Education, Kader Asmal, to review Curriculum 2005, highlighting the tragic consequences of hasty decisions taken by the ANC Government;

(2) welcomes Minister Asmal’s move to review this issue, whilst warning the Minister not to fall into the same trap by rushing into this new process and making another grievous error with our children’s future;

(3) acknowledges that valuable education, time and money have been lost with Curriculum 2005 and that South Africa cannot afford blunders of this magnitude;

(4) urges the Minister to consult with all role-players when he starts this new process in order for them to play a valuable role in creating a workable education system; and

(5) states unambiguously that the importance of education for assuring all South Africans a world-class future is non-negotiable.

[Time expired.] Mr M I MOSS: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House -

(1) recognises that desertification is a leading cause of poverty in the most arid regions of the world;

(2) acknowledges that the United Nations Convention to Combat Desertification is an important step in restoring damaged lands, improving food security, encouraging the transition to sustainable agriculture and land and environmental management;

(3) congratulates the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism on its support of the convention; and

(4) urges all members to support South Africa in hosting the Rio +10 conference in the year 2002.

[Applause.]

Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move on behalf of the ACDP:

That the House calls on -

(1) the Ministers of Health and of Trade and Industry to establish an independent inquiry into the reasons for the discontinuation of the manufacturing of medical products in South Africa by approximately 30 international pharmaceutical companies; and

(2) the Government to take every possible step to reverse this process and to stop the investment and technological drain from South Africa, which has resulted in the loss of jobs and skills.

Mr C AUCAMP: Chairperson, for a change, I have a moderate motion from the AEB. I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move on behalf of the AEB:

That the House -

(1) expresses its appreciation for the good work done by the research department of Parliament;

(2) congratulates Dr Gabriel and his staff on the thorough, speedy and user-friendly work they do in assistance of members of Parliament;

(3) encourages the members of the research department to keep up their good work;

(4) urges Parliament to make sure that this important department is provided with the necessary financial and other resources at all times in order to maintain a high standard of service to members; and

(5) notes that the motivation for this motion is the fact that for me, as a single member of a relatively small caucus without state-funded researchers, who is required to speak very often in this House, the research department of Parliament has turned out to be a useful source of objective information and an effective instrument in the capacity-building of members of Parliament who make use of their services.

Mr N H MASITHELA: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that - (a) 14 world leaders, including US President Bill Clinton, have openly backed President Thabo Mbeki’s campaign to emphasise the role of poverty in the spread of Aids; and

   (b)  the heads of state adopted President Mbeki's stance that the
       Aids debate had failed to recognise Africa-specific issues in
       the spread of the disease;

(2) recognises that, as a result of our President’s efforts, these countries have committed themselves to fostering the development of new vaccines and immunisations to combat poverty diseases such as TB, malaria and HIV/Aids; and

(3) calls on the President to continue with his excellent work in placing Africa on the agenda of rich and powerful countries.

[Applause.]

Mnr T D LEE: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die DP sal voorstel: Dat die Huis -

(1) met kommer kennis neem dat R600 000, wat in 1996 beskikbaar gestel is vir die ontwikkeling van die landelike gebied Enon in die Oos-Kaap, nog nie aangewend is nie;

(2) sy ontevredenheid uitspreek oor hierdie verdere voorbeeld van hoe die ANC-regering die agtergeblewe gemeenskappe in die steek laat; en

(3) die Minister vir Provinsiale en Plaaslike Regering versoek om -

   (a)  'n deurtastende ondersoek te begin om vas te stel wat van die
       geld geword het; en

   (b)  'n dringende vergadering met die mense van Enon te belê om te
       besluit hoe dié geld aangewend moet word.

[Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr T D LEE: Mr Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House -

(1) notes with concern that R600 000 which was made available in 1996 for the development of the rural area of Enon in the Eastern Cape, has not yet been utilised;

(2) expresses its dissatisfaction at this further example of how the ANC Government is leaving the disadvantaged communities in the lurch; and

(3) requests the Minister for Provincial and Local Government to -

   (a)  launch a thorough investigation to determine what has become of
       the money; and

   (b)  convene an urgent meeting with the people of Enon to decide how
       this money should be utilised.

[Interjections.]] Mr M F CASSIM: Chair, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes that many towns and cities are conscious of the pollution caused by discarded plastic bags and would like to see South Africa returned to its pristine and singular beauty;

(2) acknowledges that many manufacturers and dispensers of plastic bags of about 20 micron thickness have seen for themselves the devastation caused by such bags, which are nonbiodegradable and will remain so for thousands of years;

(3) notes that the visible and invisible impact of such plastic bags on the environment and marine life is vast and negative;

(4) warmly applauds the town of Douglas for taking the first positive steps by declaring war on this bane of modern life;

(5) also applauds the Sunday Times for its coverage on this subject; and

(6) calls on the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to write a congratulatory note to all those who are involved in making our country free and beautiful for all to live in …

[Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mrs M M MALUMISE: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the South African Government is represented at the Beijing +5
       conference; and


   (b)  this conference serves as a benchmark of the Government's
       implementation of previous Beijing resolutions;   (2) recognises that the women in South Africa can attest to the
   achievements and obstacles on the long journey towards empowering
   women in South Africa; and

(3) hopes that South Africa will continue its standard of being a leader in advancing the women’s rights.

Mr H A SMIT: Mr Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House notes -

(1) the statement of the ANC’s secretary-general, namely that the ANC’s ideals, which were their motivation, are being eroded by the abuse of political power within the ANC in order to bring about personal wealth;

(2) the dismantling of the ANC’s executive committees in the Free State and Gauteng, which was evidently the result of individuals’ desires to fill positions in order to influence tenders; and

(3) that the New NP -

   (a)  requests that the Heath Investigating Unit be asked to
       investigate these allegations;

   (b)  demands the ANC's full support; and

   (c)  demands that the ANC provides the commission with the
       particulars of the members concerned.

[Interjections.]

Mr T ABRAHAMS: Mr Chairman, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) recognises the fact that we are living in the age of information and that the technology of this age has led to an ever-declining need for manual labour by big business;

(2) notes that, while big business is generally able to survive industrial action, it is emerging as a destroyer rather than a creator of jobs because of automation and computerisation;

(3) laments the truth that the creators of jobs today can be found in the small business sector and that it is this very sector which is most vulnerable to the stereotyped methods being used by organised labour; and

(4) calls upon the governing party to beseech its labour organisation allies to find modern, productive methods to pressurise the private sector into meeting its social obligations.

               CONGRATULATIONS TO SA U/23 SOCCER TEAM

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes the victory of South African soccer under 23 team over New Zealand in the Olympic Qualifier; (2) recognises that the victory by Amaglug-glug is a milestone for South African sport;

(3) congratulates coach Shakes Mashaba and the boys for this sporting achievement; and

(4) wishes Amaglug-glug all of the best during the Olympic Millennium Games in Sydney, Australia.

Agreed to.

[Applause.]

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 18 - Justice and Constitutional Development:

The MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, it is indeed an honour for me to present to you and this House the report of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development for the first year of the second democratic Parliament.

At the very outset, allow me to express my appreciation for the co- operation received from all my fellow Ministers within the justice cluster, which comprises the Ministers and Deputy Ministers of Correctional Services, Defence, Finance, Home Affairs, Intelligence, Justice and Constitutional Development and Safety and Security.

The approach and work of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development has to be seen in the context of the broad work of this cluster. May I add that we are also working very well with the Minister and Deputy Minister of Education, particularly with regard to violence, possession of guns, possession of drugs and related matters, in our schools.

Since we were appointed to our respective portfolios, last year, we have, at all times, diligently sought to co-operate and interact with one another. The objective has been to ensure that we respond to matters relating to the criminal justice system in an integrated manner. With this in mind, the cluster has striven to hold regular meetings under the able stewardship of Minister Tshwete.

The effective management of the Government’s responsibilities in this regard depends on this co-operation. Revolutionary changes took place over the past six years. We successfully made the transition from apartheid and white minority rule to a nonracial and nonsexist democracy. We established a new constitutional order and a polity that is predicated upon the will of the majority. This required the creation of a new department out of eleven departments of justice with diverse cultures, and an overhaul of the entire system of justice.

New policies and laws were also required. With hardly sufficient time or resources to adequately meet the challenges of this revolution, we are, today, faced with yet a new revolutionary process, with a new set of even more demanding challenges. Our department is relatively new. Our administration is woefully underfunded and has, in many instances, less appropriate human resources. The large volumes of case backlogs and increasing awaiting-trial prisoner population are causes of major concern. To make matters worse, crime, particularly serious and violent crime, has grown to unacceptably high levels.

Whilst the challenges facing my department may seem to be daunting, the current situation presents us with exciting opportunities. It is, therefore, exciting to announce some of the important developments that are due to unfold in our environment. A month ago, I had the pleasure of presenting my first report to the justice and constitutional development portfolio committee. I provided the committee with a detailed report on our activities over the past year. I will therefore, today, address only some of our key challenges and how the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development is responding to them.

Globalisation is a reality. It impacts on our new democracy in a most dramatic fashion, particularly in the justice environment. Capital virtually moves at the speed of thought between and to those markets that are regarded as most favourable and profitable. This new global economy is fuelled and energised by the Internet revolution. The Internet itself will also have a profound impact on our economy and legal system. As part of the world economy, we are also confronted by organised crime which has also become an important part of globalisation. We are directly affected by the scourge of money-laundering - the lifeblood of drug dealers, fraudsters, smugglers, kidnappers, arms dealers, terrorists, extortionists and tax evaders. Yet, we still have to enact legislation that will enable us to respond appropriately to this challenge.

Another area that requires urgent attention is cyber crime. We do not as yet have legislation, in South Africa, to deal with this problem. We have agreed to co-operate with, among others, the United States Department of Justice, with the view to developing appropriate responses. Special training will also have to be provided to our police, prosecutors and judicial officers in this regard. Needless to say, the unacceptably high level of crime and the quality of the administration of justice have a serious impact on our effectiveness as an emerging market and our ability to attract increasing foreign direct investment. This represents our most pressing challenge yet.

What bothers me most is corruption within my own department and within the broad criminal justice system. It was reported to me recently, and I have subsequently informed our portfolio committee, that about 480 cases of malfeasance involving members of my own department were investigated. Of these, 38 are cases of fraud, 26 are of corruption and 30 are of theft. These cases are pending before our courts. We are acting in conjunction with the SA Police Service and the National Prosecuting Authority with a view to expediting the investigation and prosecution of similar matters.

Today, we are required to make a clear statement that we are meeting these challenges. The statement must not only be made to the international community, but should also be addressed to the South African people. These new challenges have substantially influenced our plans and the approach that I intend to take. Together with my colleagues in the justice cluster, we are determined to play our role in building a better future for all South Africans and in making our country a more attractive market. I am, however, confident that this scourge will be rooted out. As for the e- revolution, it is anticipated that the Internet will, in the coming years, be the premier vehicle for all commercial trade. We are therefore obliged to consider the manner in which it will impact on our rules of court and laws of evidence. The SA Law Commission is already studying these.

One of the first tasks that I performed as Minister, was to visit as many of our courts as possible. I still do this regularly. The full impact of the difficult conditions in which our courts operate became quite apparent. More to the point, the shortcomings in our delivery of services were glaring. The department has embarked upon a campaign to ensure that all head office managers visit our various offices. This would ensure that senior officials and policy makers familiarise themselves with those issues pertinent to the efficient functioning of our courts. I will encourage this practice. It will sharpen our managers’ senses to our essential priorities. This project is called Operation Mutingati which, in Tshivenda, means ``working together as a team’’. The operation kicked off on 1 June with the director-general and senior officials visiting the Eastern Cape courts.

We have also embarked upon a redeployment project. The intention is to take a number of suitably qualified lawyers, magistrates and prosecutors who are currently doing administrative work back to the courts in order to reinforce our delivery processes. The Department of the Public Service and Administration issued a directive in 1999 obliging each department to develop an integrated implementation plan consisting of a strategic plan and a human resources plan. This also coincided with the department’s review of Justice Vision 2000. I am pleased to report that the department has successfully completed the requirements stipulated by the DPSA. An approach of our Government has been to develop and strengthen our public- private partnerships. It is our intention to pursue these strategic partnerships where it would lead to mutual benefits. In this regard, we have had tremendous success already. We have, for instance, been assisted by the organised legal profession, members of which, every now and then, come forward to act as prosecutors, magistrates and judges. We have been offered the services of senior counsels in order to ensure that our high courts continue to function even during court recesses. The legal profession has offered to help in the training of our officials, particularly prosecutors. Business, people and companies have even given us assets such as photocopiers, computers and motor vehicles. In one instance, Vodacom helped in the refurbishment and automation of a magistrates’ court and a police station, all of which cost in excess of R20 million.

Similar ventures were concluded in Sophiatown, with the full assistance of Phillips. I have also secured, free of charge, the assistance of various senior business executives in reviewing and finalising our strategic plans and change management process. I wish to express my gratitude to them for their contribution. The model that they are using is based on best business practices adopted in the private sector. It is anticipated that the team will submit their report by the end of July and implementation will be completed by October this year.

Some of the key areas which they have already identified as requiring urgent attention are the zero-rated budgeting process. Independent and skilled specialists will conduct a budgeting exercise in each sector of the department based on strategic plans and the duplication of effort between various structures of management. Consideration will be given to the possibility of generating revenue streams for the ultimate benefit of the department and a review of the manner in which our court infrastructure is maintained. In this regard, I am confident that the processes we have embarked upon will result in greater efficiency and more effective service delivery.

During our cluster’s visit to a number of our courts, police stations and prisons, we found the physical infrastructure and conditions in which people live and operate simply unacceptable. This cannot be permitted to continue. The upgrading of our courts will therefore be a major challenge that my administration will face. In this regard, I am pleased to report that the allocation of R145 million for capital works during 1999 has enabled the department to commence with the construction of new buildings and other major works. This will take place at centres where there were no facilities at all before and where service delivery was seriously hampered because of a lack of facilities.

Despite insufficient funding, the largest number of major and minor building services ever is currently under construction. This is due to an efficient management of the limited resources at our disposal. This significant progress is substantiated by 56 new court rooms at 19 court buildings, which have been completed, and a further 88 new court rooms at 28 court buildings, which are to be constructed during the year 2000. Most of these worthy projects have been undertaken in previously disadvantaged rural areas of our country. This will contribute to the department’s goal of bringing justice closer to the people.

What is particularly satisfactory about our initiatives in this area is that we have also, in the process, won several awards for the innovative approaches adopted in our construction work. In addition, facilities for specialised courts, such as sexual offences courts and family courts, have been provided at new court buildings in places such as Waterval, Knysna, Bethlehem and Alexandra. These facilities will also be included in the planning of all new buildings and additions to buildings. In any major renovations, as with the construction of all new buildings, the special needs of the disabled are being incorporated.

A new challenge has arisen over the past few years in the form of the declining security in and around our court buildings. This has been a matter of serious concern to me and the Government. The traditional approach has been to employ trained and equipped security officials to serve in this capacity. Burglary continues to be one of the biggest threats to the department and these burglaries have escalated each year. Two hundred and ninety-six burglaries have taken place in our courts since

1. We have also witnessed an escalation of shooting incidents in our courts, in some of which death has ensued. To address these problems, we have initiated a process of outsourcing our security requirements. In this financial year, we have invested a further R14 million to meet this challenge.

Allow me to proceed and deal with yet another matter, that is the issue of legal aid which confronts us as a department and certainly as a country. With the appointment of the Legal Aid Board, last year, and the gallant efforts particularly by its chairperson, Judge Mohamed Navsa, we have only recently come to understand the full impact of the problems that we are confronted with. Despite the allocation of additional funds to enable the board to provide legal aid to the indigent, the board has not been able to effectively fulfil our constitutional obligations and is at present in a state of financial crisis.

We are experiencing inordinate delays in the payment of legal fees. The primary method of delivery of legal aid services has thus far been by way of judicare. This method has proved to be unacceptably expensive and cumbersome to administer. A business plan has now been prepared and judicare will drastically be scaled down and eventually replaced by a new system based on salaried employees in legal aid clinics, advice offices and public defenders. I am confident that the measures soon to be put in place will address the problems that are currently being faced by the board. Needless to say, I will be monitoring developments in this area of our work much more closely. New legislation is also being considered. The rules of procedure followed by our lower and higher courts are, in many respects, outdated, and certainly complex and cumbersome for ordinary people to understand and apply. They, therefore, require to be overhauled if they are to help us assert and defend our rights in the new constitutional dispensation.

An observation has been made, however, that our Rules Board, which consists of 12 members, is perhaps too large to promote efficiency and achieve this objective. The availability of members for board work and meetings is erratic and, besides, budgetary constraints prevent the board from holding regular meetings. If the truth were to be told, we have achieved representivity in race, gender and geographic terms at the cost of efficiency. I have discussed this with the chairman, Judge Sandile Ngcobo, who has assured me that the board itself agrees that the board needs restructuring and downsizing. For this purpose, the Rules Board for Courts of Law Act, Act 107 of 1985 may have to be amended.

Meanwhile, the Rules Board is still studying the rules of both lower and higher courts with a view to bringing them in line with the Constitution and harmonising them. The board is also looking at simplifying the rules. These must be easily understood and applied even by nonlawyers. This will certainly enhance our effort at promoting accessibility of our courts.

Since 1994, the department has been responsible for the promotion of 72 Acts of Parliament. This represents an average of 12 Acts per year. Most of the 72 statutes emanate directly or indirectly from our constitutional obligations. The department has, quite legitimately, been criticised for not doing the necessary financial planning and costing in respect of legislation hurriedly pushed through Parliament. As a result, in some instances, we have had to delay the implementation of legislation or certain provisions thereof. We are now beginning to address this problem.

The department has also been faced with the challenge of implementing many pieces of legislation within a short space of time and with limited resources. Problems were inevitable. I am, however, confident that, despite the limited resources, the new legislation has brought about many positive changes and impacted positively on the lives of many of our people. I must, however, be quite frank. This year we have a shortened session of Parliament due to the forthcoming local government elections and quite a few Bills on the legislative programme will only possibly be nearing completion when it might be too late for them to be considered by Parliament during the year 2000. This means that we must prioritise.

The Bills on the current programme, which I think must be finalised by Parliament as a matter of urgency, are the following: the Directorate of Special Operations Bill, which seeks to establish a proper statutory framework for the Scorpions; the Superior Courts Bill, which is, inter alia, intended to bring the superior courts’ structure in line with the Constitution; the Interception and Monitoring Prohibition Amendment Bill, which will help bring the legislation dealing with the interception and monitoring of conversations which have a bearing on criminal activities in line with the latest telecommunications technology; the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill, which contains numerous amendments to different Acts of Parliament; and the Judicial Service Commission Amendment Bill. This is, for self-evident reasons, an important Bill.

In our legal system, other than the provisions of the Constitution in terms of which a judge may be removed from office if the Judicial Service Commission finds that he or she suffers from an incapacity, is grossly incompetent or is guilty of gross misconduct, there are no provisions pertaining to a complaints mechanism for the public or any interested parties regarding the conduct of a judge, the procedure to be followed in following up a complaint against a judge, or steps that may be taken against a judge where his or her alleged misconduct does not necessarily justify removal from office.

It should be emphasised that the decision to conduct research on this question, and to draft proposals regarding the establishment of a complaints mechanism in respect of judges, emanated from within the Judicial Service Commission, as long ago as 1997. The Judicial Service Commission identified certain guidelines in accordance with which the draft proposals had to be prepared. These were, for example, that provision should be made for the establishment of a complaints committee, and that the committee should consist of members of the judiciary and the commission, but not exclusively.

My department prepared a draft. I took this to the Judicial Service Commission and proposed to the commission that instead of going directly to Cabinet, we should first consult the judiciary on a matter such as this one. This proposal was accepted and an ad hoc committee of the JSC, consisting of the Chief Justice, the President of the Constitutional Court and Judge President Ngoepe, was appointed to oversee the consultation process.

It should also be mentioned that the JSC appointed a drafting committee to consider the proposals, taking into account the legislation of various other countries in this regard. If Cabinet approves the draft Bill, the legislative process will follow its normal course, including the comprehensive consultation process that takes place when considering legislation.

It should further be noted that the draft legislation would in no way be aimed at interfering with the functioning of the courts and judicial independence. Judicial acts such as judgments and sentencing will always be dealt with in terms of judicial procedures, such as review and appeal proceedings. The proposed legislation will only be dealing with complaints or allegations of misconduct by judges. I have given this lengthy explanation primarily to respond to numerous and obviously misinformed media articles in this regard. I would like to express my appreciation to those members of the judiciary for the positive contributions on this matter. I also want to especially thank the members of the drafting committee for their contribution towards the drafting of this legislation.

The national prosecuting authority has continued to make strides in major areas in the administration of criminal justice and the fight against crime in collaboration with the SA Police Service. It has continued to strive for an efficient and effective prosecution service. The Office of the National Director of Public Prosecutions has created new national entities in order to begin to address some of the challenges facing the prosecuting authority. I will now deal with the work that some of these entities and units have embarked upon recently.

Before the court management unit was established in the Office of the National Director of Public Prosecutions, the prosecution had no statistics on which to base its management decisions. In a sense, senior management in the prosecuting authority had been groping in the dark. However, with the establishment of this unit, we are now in a position to manage and monitor the performance of each court. We are now able to identify and shift human and material resources to areas where they are sorely needed.

Shortly after my appointment as Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development, the Minister of Safety and Security and I visited the Mdantsane Magistrates’ Court at the invitation of the National Director of Public Prosecutions. What we found there was that the courts were working for an average of one hour per day. The courts would start working at about 11:00 in the morning or 14:00 every day. Prosecutors and magistrates were coming to work under the influence of liquor.

We immediately intervened to correct the state of affairs. We appointed new chief and senior prosecutors and court orderlies and put in additional resources. I am pleased to report that, since then, the Mdantsane Magistrates’ Court has become one of the best performing courts in terms of the performance targets set for the prosecuting authority. [Applause.] The same is true of the court in Zwelitsha and other courts. Further, for the first time in the history of this country, we have established a High Court seat in the Mdantsane township to deal with sexual offences.

Having achieved the targets it has set for itself for the past year, the national prosecuting authority has set itself other targets for this year. We have already begun to see that the prosecutors are meeting even the new targets. We are already beginning to see the following: Further increases in the average court hours; reduction in the outstanding court rolls; increases in the number of cases finalised with a verdict; reduction in the outstanding decision dockets; reduction in the numbers of prisoners awaiting trial; and reduction in the finalisation period of matters already in the system.

The newly established Sexual Offences and Community Affairs Unit in the Office of the National Director of Public Prosecutions has come up with innovative ideas to deal with crimes against women and children. A number of sexual offences courts have already been established in a number of areas throughout the country. The unit, in conjunction with other departments and Ministries such as Health, Welfare, Safety and Security and nongovernmental organisations is demonstrating a collaborative effort that seeks to improve the investigation and prosecution of rape and sexual abuse cases.

Based on the findings of a study focusing on the experiences of rape victims on the Cape Flats, we will soon be announcing the creation of a care centre on the Cape Flats to demonstrate that it is possible to improve services to rape victims. If successful, the project will be extended to major centres.

Before dealing with the work that the investigative directorates under the National Director of Public Prosecutions has been doing, I would like first to congratulate all of them on their excellent performance. In particular, I would like to thank all the members of the investigative directorate who sacrificed their December vacations and answered the call to come and work when the country was experiencing devastating bombings in the Cape Peninsula during the festive season.

We have seen the same kind of success in respect of drug trafficking and gangsterism on the Cape Flats. At the beginning, we targeted five main drug suppliers on the Cape Flats, while SAPS continued to deal with ordinary drug suppliers and dealers. As a result of this approach, five suspects are before our courts now. As far as the gangs are concerned, we are making breakthroughs there as well. Soon we will be bringing prosecutions against one of the major gangs on the Cape Flats.

In the Gauteng Province the investigative directorate operating there has managed to dismantle a large number of car-hijacking syndicates. Car- hijacking in Gauteng, as we all know, has decreased quite dramatically. In KwaZulu-Natal, the investigative directorate that deals with political violence has done outstanding work.

Although the Asset Forfeiture Unit has had one or two setbacks in some of its major cases, asset forfeiture remains our main weapon in the fight against organised crime. Interestingly enough, in all of the cases that the unit has lost, none of the accused persons denied that the property sought to be seized constituted proceeds of crime. Instead of dealing with the merits of the case, the respondents chose to deal with the technicalities relating to the drafting of the Act.

Despite these difficulties, the unit has been more successful than what it expected when it started. Overall, the unit has initiated a total of 23 cases and it has been successful in 18 of these cases - a success rate of over 75%. In total, the assets seized so far amount to well over R70 million.

The Directorate of Special Operations, popularly known as the Scorpions, has already been set up in terms of the mandate from the President. The directorate will deal with national priority crimes including organised crime. The Bill for the establishment of the directorate has been referred to Cabinet and will soon be introduced.

Allow me to mention that I have just returned from Scotland Yard in Hendon, London and the FBI Academy in Quantico, Virginia, USA and have seen the training of our new DSO recruits. I am satisfied with the training of these new recruits. Looking at our young people undergoing the intensive training, I wished I were much younger than I am. [Interjections.]

I am satisfied that the National Prosecuting Authority is well on its way to establishing a prosecuting service that is representative, professional, ready to fight crime, legitimate in the eyes of the people it serves, and is regarded as the true people’s lawyers.

To help deal with the backlogs, particularly, in the Western Cape and Eastern Cape, several additional regional and even High Courts have been established. For example, nine additional regional courts have been established here in the Western Cape, including two additional sexual offence courts, in Wynberg. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Please put those cellphones off or take them to your offices. [Applause.]

The MINISTER: Mr Chairperson, thank you. More such courts are envisaged. In Pretoria we have established a special regional commercial court to deal expeditiously with and dispose of economic offences such as fraud.

May I say that, unfortunately, though we have concluded investigation and are ready to dispose of about 120 cases that were investigated by both the directorate dealing with serious economic offences and the police, because of a paucity of skills amongst our prosecutors, we are not able to start these cases as yet. We might have to, indeed, think of sourcing resources from the private sector, which exercise might cost us about R30 million, for which we have not provided in our budget.

In conjunction with Sars, we have established a special tax court in Bellville, to deal with tax-related offences. For this purpose, indeed, I have designated certain members of Sars, who are qualified lawyers, as prosecutors, so that they should help us prosecute in these matters. Again, in conjunction with the National Association of Democratic Lawyers, the Black Lawyers Association and members of the traditional legal profession, we are doing quite a lot of work in our courts where lawyers are taking turns and serving as magistrates and prosecutors free of charge. This is working and we hope to be able to roll it out to other parts of the country.

The training programme, under the auspices of the Justice College, is also continuing apace, and, indeed, we are in the process of giving more specialised training to our prosecutors and magistrates so that we can meet the challenges that we face. We are also part of what is called an integrated justice system. May I, in this regard, only say that the integrated justice system is doing exceptionally well. Our research and analysis over the past few years have shown that the only effective solution to our problems is to adopt an integrated cluster approach, which, as I have already said, we have adopted.

It is now my intention to deal, in brief, with a matter which I regard as being currently topical. In this regard, it would be useful to remember that, as a country, when we embarked upon the transition from apartheid to democracy, and as part of our political settlement, we chose to retain the judicial structures and personnel we inherited from our past, in fact, but for the establishment of one new court, the Constitutional Court, we chose to use such structures and personnel as the foundation for postapartheid justice. This was notwithstanding the fact that the majority of our people legitimately had no faith in any of those structures.

We are in the process of remaking our country in its entirety, and within our known constraints, tremendous work is being done to transform our courts. The judiciary as an institution, under the leadership of our Chief Justice and the President of the Constitutional Court, is part of the efforts that are being made. Great strides are being made and black people and women are gradually becoming more visible in the echelons of our judiciary. Many suitably qualified South Africans, whose commitment to human rights cannot be gainsaid and who, in the past, would find it unthinkable to join the institution, are coming forward and offering to join the ranks of the judiciary.

At the same time, it would be sheer dishonesty, if not the height of self- delusion, to deny that there is still a long way for all of us to go before we have a judiciary which is next to the ideal in racial and gender terms. Similarly, it would be foolhardy to pretend that our judiciary as an institution was spared, or was sealed, hermetically so, from the full impact of apartheid or that the mere fact that April 1994 happened instantaneously transformed South Africa into a nonracial and nonsexist society predicated upon the values we now all espouse.

Those of us who were at the receiving end of apartheid still have fresh memories of what was done to us as we struggled against the evil system. Victims of pass laws and forced removals under the Group Areas Act, for example, knew that they could not easily approach our courts with any hope for justice, as our courts would then simply tell them that theirs was not to make, but to interpret and apply, the law as given by Parliament.

There is a lingering public perception that things are not changing fast enough in the judiciary. Leaders and some commentators even list certain instances relating to apparent and disturbing sentencing disparities, from which a judicial racial bias can be gleaned. Except to sensitise us to what still has to be done, statistics may not necessarily help us in performing our arduous task in this regard.

All of us, including the judiciary, as builders of a new South Africa, have a responsibility to work hard at enhancing the image of our judiciary and promoting popular confidence in our courts. Part of this responsibility is to desist from indulging in uninformed criticism of the work of the judiciary or ascribing certain motives to judges when they rule in certain matters. The other part is for judges themselves to desist from making statements on or off the bench that would bring reasonable people to the conclusion that the judge’s behaviour or attitude is impermissible.

On behalf of Government, may I appeal, through this House, to all South Africans of goodwill, particularly political leaders, to support the little that we are doing in this regard. No democracy can thrive without a strong judiciary in which all of us have full confidence. As a democracy, we cannot instruct people not to express opinions on any matter of public concern, not even on the judiciary. If we did so at the instance of the judiciary or on the pretext of protecting the judiciary from particularly informed and responsible criticism, we would certainly be stifling public debate on matters of public importance and the price, over time, would prove to be too high to pay.

I also want to deal briefly with the issue of sentencing policy. I have asked the SA Law Commission to quickly investigate this matter, and the Law Commission has since published a draft working paper which is available for discussion. Again, time allowing us, we would be able to go into some of the proposals that they are making.

It should be remembered that, as was envisaged by Parliament in 1997, the 1997 Act in this regard is a temporary measure. In all democracies that we have looked at, the notion has developed that judicial sentencing discretion should be properly structured to ensure that like cases are treated alike. This would indeed help obviate this debate - which, as far as I am concerned, is a sterile one - that there is a racial bias each time we look at the results of the work of our courts.

Lastly, the President dealt adequately with the issue of TRC reparations. I only want to say that since the President’s report here in Parliament when he was answering questions, we have received about 12 000 cases including those that the President alluded to. About 10 000 of these have already been paid interim relief. In the meantime, a lot of work is being done to address the issue of longer-term reparations and the question will be brought to this House pretty soon. [Applause.]

Adv J H DE LANGE: Deputy Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, I rise on behalf of the ANC and unconditionally support the 2000 Justice Vote and want to express an unconditional vote of confidence in support of the work undertaken by our previous and present Ministers, the previous and present directors-general and the staff of the department during the past year. I want to congratulate them for what they have done and what they have been able to achieve under very difficult circumstances.

Now hon members may ask me what the scarf that I am wearing is for. [Interjections.] This is called a tais. This is part of the national dress of the East Timorese people. I recently had the opportunity to participate in certain activities of the National Association of Jurists of East Timor, and as a sign of gratitude, I was handed this tais. [Applause.]

I promised that on the first occasion I appeared in Parliament after returning, I would wear this tais and, secondly, that I would raise the issue of East Timor. I now do so. As hon members know, East Timor was a colony for a very long time and recently, in a referendum, there was a decision by the vast majority to move for independence. However, the militia - these are the people that were opposed to the independence of East Timor - then embarked on a scorched earth policy and basically destroyed the whole economic, political and legal infrastructure of East Timor. If one goes there, it is devastating to see it. There are 12 little towns in East Timor, and the militia moved to every single town and … [Interjections.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member De Lange, you are moving away from the topic at hand, but in the interest of democracy, I shall give you few seconds to wind up. [Laughter.]

Adv J H DE LANGE: Thank you for the reminder, but I would remind you that this is an issue of human rights and justice, and I thought that that is what we are debating. What happened is that everything was taken away. The whole infrastructure was then burned down, and basically the East Timorese were left with a hollow shell to build their future independence on.

I therefore want to call on all South Africans, whether in Government, civil society or business, to assist in every way possible, through financial, moral and intellectual support, the desire of the East Timorese to attain independence, and to assist in reconstructing the country’s political, economical, social and legal infrastructure, which has suffered, firstly under its colonial legacy and, more recently, because of the militia.

Let me now turn briefly to outline the activities of the committee in preparation. I can take the scarf off now, because it is extremely hot, I might add. I do not know how they wear it in tropical areas. [Interjections.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Perhaps that is all they wear. [Laughter.]

Adv J H DE LANGE: Thank you, Dougie! Over a three week period, we had extensive public hearings to thoroughly and candidly look at every aspect of the budget of the Justice department. We started off with the Minister, who gave the overview and the political direction of his department, then, for two or three days, we looked in detail, with officials of the department, at what they were doing. Thereafter, we called the prosecuting authority, the Legal Aid Board, the Human Rights Commission, the TRC, the Commission for Gender Equality, the Public Protector, the Heath Special Investigating Unit, the Board for Sheriffs and the Bureau of Justice Assistance and we had a thorough oversight of all the activities of those structures.

We want to thank and congratulate, on behalf of the committee, people on the effort that they made in preparing for these activities and, especially, for being very candid and open and thorough in dealing with their problems and what their plans were for the future. This made our oversight role in the committee much easier.

There was one small hiccup and that was that we called upon the NCPS, as we have done in the past, to come and give us an input on what their activities are. Unfortunately, they did not arrive. I still have not received a satisfactory answer as to whether they do or do not exist and I am sure that, in future, we will receive a briefing from the Minister on how to deal with this matter. I must say that the way the matter was dealt with was highly unsatisfactory.

During the hearings, many issues were raised and candidly discussed and we all had ample opportunity - that is, everyone from the majority and the minority parties - to deal with all our problems and all the questions we had. My colleagues from both sides will touch upon some of these aspects.

I would like to make a few brief comments on the way that I see the transformation process has unfolded during this transitional period in the department. In a nutshell, as hon members know, in 1994, there were 12 departments of justice in this country and 12 legal systems in this country. Over a period of a few years, the previous Minister had to firstly rationalise all these structures. He had to rationalise 12 directors- general, 50 deputy directors-general, and all those type of activities and, of course, all the institutions, the practices and attitudes that go with that. This was of course an enormous task for the department.

Secondly, the 11 legal systems had to be all rationalised into one legal system. Again, this is an enormous task and we are still busy with some of those activities. Up till today, this has not been accomplished, six years down the line.

The end of the story is that, over a long period of time, the department was able to amalgamate into one department, one set of personnel with one vision for the department, and has moved away from the fractured system that existed previously and, equally, has moved to one legal system. At the same time, while this rationalisation was taking place, delivery had to continue, not only delivery of the usual functions of the department as they existed, but also delivery of those functions that were being reprioritised in the department. However, more so - as hon members in our committee and in Parliament will know - this department has passed more than 70 pieces of legislation in the past five or six years.

Not only has there been an enormous burden on the department to generate that kind of legislation, but equally, of course, it then had to implement it and find the finances or the money to do so. Having this rationalisation process on the one side and having to deliver on the other side, has been the sphere in which the department has had to operate over the past six years.

It is important to note, as the Minister has outlined, that the percentage of the budget has remained relatively constant in relation to the rest of the budget. Although our budget has increased at times, like all the departments, we struggle with a massive deficit in our budget. In fact, I think that the Justice budget is something like 0,75% of our annual Budget and the department just operates as a conduit passing a big part of that money through to the commission.

So we can see that with a very limited budget, very limited capacity to expand, a lot of work has been done. It is clear that the rationalisation processes, personnel changes and new practices introduced by the department over six years, plus the extra work burden brought on through new legislation and reprioritising of activities, have created space for certain problems to manifest themselves or to be introduced. These difficulties have manifested themselves in many ways through failures of proper management systems, wrong options taken, failures of delivery services, increased malpractices in use and expenditure of funds, increased fraud and corruption, increased disciplinary problems and so forth.

However, I am of the view that during the past two years through the concerted efforts of both the previous Minister and the present Minister, and both previous and present directors-general, and by putting in place new systems and mechanisms to deal with these problems, we have turned the corner in respect of these problems. I have no doubt that we are on an upward curve, and we will be watching the department very carefully to make sure that the curve does not only remain on the up, but, in fact, increases in momentum.

I now want to turn to two issues which have received considerable attention during the hearings and which, in some instances, may even be regarded as controversial. The first is the delays in the implementation of legislature. We canvassed this matter fully with the Minister and DG, and, in most instances, satisfactory explanations were given either in general terms for delays or in specific instances. The Minister has also outlined again capacity problems - financial and in human terms, and so on - that have created some of these problems.

However, there are two factors leading to delays that we dealt with in the hearings which need to be elaborated on in Parliament itself. It appears that financial implications of legislation are not always considered or not properly considered, and not thoroughly analysed and evaluated before legislation is introduced to either the Cabinet or Parliament. I think the Minister and the department have dealt with this fully and admitted to it.

A whole plan is being put in place by the department to make sure that in the future before legislation is introduced, it has been very carefully looked at in terms of the financial implications, and that finances have actually been provided in this instance. I must say that one of the problems that we do have is that some of the practices of state expenditure have contributed to these problems. For example, if the department knows that it is going to introduce the Prosecuting Authority Bill this year and it wants to include, therefore, a budget for the Bill, state expenditure will not allow them to do so because the legislation has not been passed. Then, during the year we pass legislation, there is no budget for it, and when one has to implement the legislation, it cannot be done. I think that part of the problem is that state expenditure should also be looking at some of their practices in this regard to make sure that the departments can fulfil these functions much better.

Secondly, we raised with the Minister during the hearings and aired our dissatisfaction as a committee with the delays in the implementation of certain legislation caused by the possible attitudes, approaches or even obstacles of certain public servants in one or two departments. Pieces of legislation that I give as examples are the amendments to the laws relating to confessions, section 49 of the Criminal Procedure Act and section 29 of the Correctional Services Act.

The problem is twofold in this regard. Firstly, the legitimacy, efficiency and integrity of Parliament and its committees, as the highest legislative authority in the country, is being severely undermined. Let me explain. If legislation gets introduced by the department after thorough consultation with other departments, and usually with the Law Commission, by the Minister and the department in Cabinet, Cabinet then approves this legislation and it comes to Parliament. The committee has thorough hearings, hears all other departments’ views on the matter, hears the view of civil society and then goes through the caucuses to the parties. The caucuses approve this legislation and, in some instances, they do not approve it, but that does not happen very often.

We then pass the legislation in the National Assembly and it goes through the NCOP committee and the NCOP, who will agree to the legislation. It is very difficult for the committee to accept the long period of time or the few years that it then takes to further implement it because some other departments have problems with this. I want to stress, and we have stressed this to the Minister, that we have on record as far as our department is concerned, clearly been wanting to implement the legislation and to do so very quickly at an early stage. But we have problems in that when certain departments have raised these issues in the committees, the problems they have raised have either been rejected or found to have no validity, and now for two or three years the legislation is not passed. It is very important that this matter is dealt with.

The second problem is that some of this legislation is in fact unconstitutional at the moment. For example, we all agree, both in Government and civil society at all levels, that section 49 of the Criminal Procedure Act is unconstitutional. That is the law that allows the police to use force when they arrest someone. At the moment, it is as it was under the apartheid regime. Clearly, this piece of legislation is unconstitutional at present.

We have waited one and a half years for the legislation that Parliament has passed to be implemented and it has not happened. It is very difficult to explain to people and the media what these holdups are. We have raised with the Minister in the committee that these matters be speeded up, that these pieces of legislation either be implemented immediately or other remedial steps be taken to finalise the matter. Let me deal with the other controversial issue that the Minister has also touched on. That is the issue of the reparations arising out of the TRC. Many voices have been raised in this regard recently. Personally, I have been quite stunned by some of the voices that have been raised and their content. For some reason, it seems that we have just forgotten completely about the history of the TRC legislation and how we drafted it. It was very clear when we drafted the legislation, and it is very clear as the legislation stands now, that final reparations will be dealt with once the TRC has done all its work and gives the Government a final report, including its final recommendations on reparations. That is as clear as daylight in the legislation, and it has always been our intention, and all the parties here have accepted that.

From that process the recommendations then go to the Government. Government, as we have agreed, will have an actuarial report done on the costs and so on. They will then look at the matter holistically and make recommendations to Parliament on the issue. Parliament will then look at the issue and either approve or not approve it, add to or subtract from it, and then regulations will be passed to deal with this matter. These are not things that we sucked out of our thumbs. This is clearly what is in the law.

Now some people are coming along and saying that most of the work of the TRC has been done. Some say 95% of the work has been done, others say 90%. They say that, therefore, they do not have to worry about what the law says

• that is, wait until the final report is given - they want to quickly finalise the reparations, tag on and deal with the rest later. Either one is an adherent of the rule of law or one is not. Either we apply the laws properly and stick to them, or we do not. If we are unhappy with the law as it is stated now, then there should be recommendations from people to amend the law in order to change it and do what is being suggested.

In the meantime, the issue of final reparations is clearly dealt with in the legislation. This Government has committed itself to complying with all its obligations in terms of the final reparations, and it has also been stated in the Azapo case that, clearly, the way we have limited people’s rights in terms of amnesty, both their civil and criminal litigation rights, means that we have to therefore provide for a process of reparations or else that legislation will ultimately be found to be unconstitutional. It was found constitutional on the basis that there would be a reparations process.

We as the ANC have stated over and again that we will comply with our obligations in this regard. But we have not left victims destitute in the meantime. We have provided for a process of interim relief and reparations, but this process and mechanism is in the hands of the TRC. It is for the TRC to deal with interim relief and reparations. They have to receive the applications, process them and give their recommendations to the Government

• as the Minister says - and all the Government will do is pay the money from the fund.

The Government has made R300 million available over two years for interim reparations. It is sitting in the President’s Fund. To date, we have only paid out R30 million of this money. R270 million is available. It is incumbent on the TRC to make sure that they have structures in place to inform the victims of their rights in the meantime and to make sure the victims apply for this money. Those that comply with the criteria of the TRC will be helped in the interim, while we are waiting for finalisation of this matter.

I therefore want to strongly reiterate the ANC’s position which has been stated ad nauseam. We will comply with all our legal and moral obligations to victims, as contained in the TRC report. We have every intention to provide for a process of final reparation once the TRC has completed its work and handed to the Government its final report, which will include a final report on final reparations. In the interim, the Government will fulfil all its obligations relating to interim reparations, but emphasises strongly that this is first and foremost the legal and moral obligation of the TRC. I ask them to act responsibly and diligently in this regard, and to provide a proper and adequate infrastructure for victims, not only to enable the TRC to fulfil its legal and moral obligations, but to allow victims with special and immediate needs the space to seek such interim redress.

I think it is very important, and I am not accusing anyone, that we be very careful to guard against any form of opportunism in this regard. Victims are the most vulnerable groupings one can find in society. It is wrong for us to create the wrong impression - suggest approaches to the issue of reparations which fall outside the law. It is incumbent on all of us to fulfil our duties towards victims and we should do so in terms of the law. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Dr J T DELPORT: Mr Chairman, for one brief moment, I thought the hon colleague Mr De Lange had achieved greater heights in the ring, hence the purple belt he was wearing.

Drieduisend jaar gelede het ‘n regering in Babilon dae lank met ‘n duisend gaste feesgevier. Dit het goed gegaan, en toe verskyn daar aan die muur ‘n hand wat skrywe, ‘n hand wat sê: ``Jy is geweeg en te lig bevind.’’ Belsasar se koninkryk was besig om in sy fondamente te verkrummel. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Die reg en die regstelsel is ‘n hoeksteen van enige staat, en ‘n staat wat nie sekuriteit en vrede en toegang tot die reg aan sy mense kan gee nie, kan nie oorleef nie. Ek sou graag vandag my tyd wou gebruik om positiewe en opbouende voorstelle te doen, maar laat ons begin by die foute sodat ons dit kan regstel en hanteer. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Three thousand years ago a government in Babylon celebrated for days on end with a thousand guests. The festivities went very well, and then a hand appeared on the wall which wrote: ``You have been weighed in the balances, and found wanting.’’ Belshazzar’s kingdom was crumbling at its foundations. [Interjections.]

The law and the legal system are a cornerstone of any state, and a state which cannot provide its people with security and peace and access to the law, cannot survive. I would have liked to spend my time today making positive and constructive suggestions, but let us begin with the mistakes in order for us to rectify and deal with them.]

I want to address the hon the Minister personally and say what I have said on more than one occasion, that the Minister is prepared to admit the serious and even sometimes chaotic condition in which our legal system currently is. That is a good start, if one is prepared to admit the problems we are facing.

Die eerste hand wat skrywe - en die Minister het dit alreeds erken - is dat daar ‘n gebrek aan administratiewe dissipline in die Departement van Justisie is. Hoe is dit moontlik dat ons einde Januarie 130 000 agterstallige sake gehad het? Dit is moontlik as landdroshowe gemiddeld maar drie uur en 40 minute per dag sit. Wat sê die departement self? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The first hand writes - and the Minister has already admitted this - that there is a lack of administrative discipline in the Department of Justice. How is it possible that at the end of January we had a backlog of 130 000 cases? It is possible if the magistrates’ courts sit, on average, for only about three hours and 40 minutes per day. What does the department itself say?]

This is what they say: Three specific problems have been identified, namely a lack of discipline amongst the various role-players, including the court orderlies, prosecutors, interpreters and even magistrates; secondly, bad or ineffective court roll planning; and thirdly, the crisis of Legal Aid payment of legal representatives.

In die algemeen kla hulle dat daar ‘n ``inadequate court management system’’ in plek is, soos hulle dit noem. Hierdie hand wat so ontstellend skryf, die hand van die departement self, gaan voort om te sê: A lot needs to be done to dispel the notion that the courts have not been effective in the fight against crime, particularly serious crimes and crimes against women and children.

Ek noem nie eens die groot probleem met wangedrag in die departement nie, en selfs die miljoene rande wat weens bedrog en korrupsie verskuldig geraak het. Die direkteur-generaal self sê reëls word eenvoudig blatant geïgnoreer. Ek kan verskeie voorbeelde noem, maar laat ek op hierdie vlak volstaan met wat ‘n adjunkpresident van ‘n afdeling van die Hooggeregshof skryf. Hy sê:

It is evident that proper and firm intervention is needed to prevent that also this division comes to a point of breakdown, as one has observed in some other courts.

Dit is nie snaaks nie, en dit is waar, wanneer The New York Times rapporteer dat Suid-Afrikaners nie meer vertroue in die regstelsel het nie. Wat ‘n aanklag! Wat ‘n hand wat skryf teen die muur! (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[In general they complain that there is an ``inadequate court management system’’ in place. This hand that is writing so alarmingly, the hand of the department itself, goes on to say:

A lot needs to be done to dispel the notion that the courts have not been effective in the fight against crime, particularly serious crimes and crimes against women and children.

I am not even mentioning the big problem as regards misconduct in the department, and even the millions of rands which are owed due to fraud and corruption. The director-general himself says that rules are simply being blatantly ignored. I can mention various examples, but in this regard what a deputy president of a division of the Supreme Court has written will suffice. He says:

It is evident that proper and firm intervention is needed to prevent that also this division comes to a point of breakdown, as one has observed in some other courts.

It is no joke, and it is the truth, when The New York Times reports that South Africans no longer have faith in the legal system. What an indictment! What a hand that is writing on the wall!]

Secondly, a hand is writing that we have a selective commitment to fighting crime. Let us listen to the voice of Judge Heath, who leads the most, or perhaps the only really, successful crime combating unit, reclaiming hundreds of millions of rands lost through corruption.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS, CULTURE, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Amen!

Dr J T DELPORT: What does the hon judge say? He says that he questions the Government’s political will to root out corruption. Small wonder! His unit is totally underfunded, to the extent that he is compelled to approach the private sector for assistance. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: I cannot believe that!

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

Dr J T DELPORT: A direct question: Why has he been the object of abusive remarks by a Cabinet Minister and today in this House? [Interjections.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

Dr J T DELPORT: Is it, perhaps, because Judge Heath knows no fear or favour? Is it because Government officials are protected? The finger writes and writes.

There is also absence of support for the rule of law. The surest sign of crumbling foundations of any state is when the rule of law is undermined or not supported. A test for the hon the Minister’s commitment to the rule of law and the independence of the judiciary presented itself twice in recent weeks. First of all, our neighbour in Harare, who, incidentally, singlehandedly destroyed the economy of Zimbabwe, dealt his own country a fatal blow by ignoring judgments of his own high court. The comments of our Minister, the South African Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development? Nothing. Earthshattering silence.

Secondly, the ANC’s Smuts - or is it Hitler Nonkonyana? - speaks degradingly of the judiciary. Surely our Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development should react to the uncalled for and recklessly irresponsible statements by Nonkonyana? After all, he states that the Appeal Court judges were racially biased, and that the judiciary ought to be transformed. I applaud the Minister for his remarks here today, and I welcome them, but once again, his immediate reaction? Nothing. Earthshattering silence.

It became necessary for the hon Mr Justice Chaskalson, president of the Constitutional Court, and the hon Chief Justice to react. What did they say? They said it was a deplorable attack. They said such comments ``cannot be regarded as legitimate’’. They constitute an attack on the judiciary as an institution, impugning the integrity of six judges and implying that their decisions were a result of bias. Any such attack is to be deplored. [Interjections.]

It was necessary for Judge President Ngoepe earlier, as a result of and in reaction to the cries, also from members of this Parliament, to discipline the judiciary, and to state that it was in the public interest that the High Court be preserved and recognised for what it is, the repository of judicial competence and independence. The finger writes.

Dan wil ek ook iets sê oor selektiewe gelykheid. Een van die hoekstene van ons Grondwet is die beginsel van gelykheid. Alle vorme van rassisme en diskriminasie word verbied. Daar is een korrektief en dit is die sogenaamde regstellende optrede. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Then I also want to say something about selective equality. One of the cornerstones of our Constitution is the principle of equality. All forms of racism and discrimination are prohibited. There is one corrective, and that is so-called affirmative action.]]

The Human Rights Commission had no qualms about embarking on an investigation into racism in the media. At the same time, however, another incident occurred. A young schoolgirl qualified for the Olympics. She was the only one in Africa. Similarly, the South African men’s hockey team qualified to participate. Alas, the schoolgirl gymnast and the hockey team have to wait. Nocsa says they will not represent South Africa. This was confirmed this very morning.

This is not affirmative action. It is blatant discrimination. It is blatant racism. Let us all applaud Minister Balfour, who, at least, tried to intervene on behalf of the hockey team. But where is the Human Rights Commission? Where is our Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development? Deafening silence.

I invite these sportsmen to contact me. Ramsamy should be taken to court. This is another finger that is writing, extinguishing the spirit of hope. Nothing is as essential and nothing is as powerful as the spirit of hope, as a vision which can be pursued, and as a guiding star that will lead and motivate. How sad, to quote an eminent lawyer, chairman of the General Bar Council, Jeremy Gauntlett, who says: ``There is a palpably depressed spirit across the ranks of our judiciary.’’ Another finger that writes.

We need to call for drastic measures. I have not even touched on the issue of crime. South Africa is becoming internationally known for its crimes of violence, murder, rape, torture and robbery. The line must now be drawn.

Let me state first of all, as a legal theoretician, that I am against the death penalty. But I call upon the Government to call for and to allow a free vote in Parliament on the introduction of the death penalty in extreme cases of indiscriminate murder, rape with torture and the murder of policemen. Allow everyone in this Parliament to heed his own conscience. Let everyone in this House ask himself whether Parliament is doing its duty to a defenceless public which is at the mercy of killers and rapists.

In conclusion, we in the DP have become used to personal attacks and name calling whenever we touch a raw nerve. [Interjections.] I would like to thank that hon colleague but it is not for him to say that; it is for the Chair to decide.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Carry on with your speech.

Mr J T DELPORT: I have endeavoured today not to speak myself but to let others speak. [Interjections.] Let others do the writing on the wall. But whether the DP says so or whether others say so, the fact remains that the very existence of the Government’s contract with the people of our country is at stake. The sacred promises of safety, security and access to justice at all times, as contained in our Constitution, are at risk. If the Minister is really dedicated, and I do believe he is, to transformation, efficiency and excellence, then he can count on the DP’s support. But many fingers are writing on the wall. Many fingers are warning. I urge the members to heed the writing before it is too late. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, I will confine my contribution to the Justice Vote, which the IFP supports. [Interjections.] We support it without that scarf that Johnny has imported. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] I will continue as well. The IFP joins other speakers who addressed words of appreciation to those in the department who have done their duty, especially those who have suffered under very abnormal circumstances.

As far as the hon the Minister is concerned, he was criticised by the DP, but I think they are making a mistake, because this hon Minister is facing an almost impossible task. He finds himself in the position of an heir who inherited an insolvent estate. The problems in the Justice department did not originate yesterday. They started in the days of the old NP, before 1994, when particularly Mr Kobie Coetzee proved himself to be a useless justice Minister. [Laughter.] I told him so at the time.

We in the IFP believe that the justice system of any country forms the very backbone of that country. The justice system ensures law and order. It tries and sends criminals to jail. It settles disputes between citizens. It protects the citizens against unfair governments. The point is, with an effective justice system, a country has law and order. Without an effective justice system, it has anarchy.

Various prominent people have warned that South Africa’s justice system is collapsing. One of them is the previous director-general. I have noticed that the DP has also emphasised numerous crisis areas such as, they say, a total lack of administrative discipline, a chaotic state that has arisen in the criminal justice systems and the backlog of 130 000 cases, and The New York Times has reported that we no longer trust the justice system.

The point is that we can mention many more examples of this state of affairs, such as that the awaiting-trial accused, in some cases, have to wait in jail, awaiting trial for longer than a year. More than 60 000 people are at the moment in jail awaiting trial and they are overcrowding our prisons. There are not sufficient funds available to finance the system. There are many more examples, but I think that the point is the following. We all see the problem, but the question is: What do we do to solve the crisis?

The Zulus have a very applicable saying when a cow is stuck in the mud. They say: Iwe ngophondo. Iwe ngophondo. [It fell on its horn.] Then all in the area spontaneously jump in to get the cow out of the mud. I see the Minister of the SA Police Service shakes his head and says that he knows of the cow in the mud and that we all have to help to get it out. [Laughter.] As far as the justice system is concerned, we in the IFP say today: Iwe ngophondo. In other words, let us all jump in to get the justice cow out of the mud. The matter is no longer of a party-political nature. It has become a national problem and it requires extraordinary measures to save our system. I believe that lawyers in KwaZulu-Natal and the Western Cape have offered to serve free of charge in magistrates’ courts. The Minister also referred to those helping hands. This is an excellent start to the process of getting the cow out of the mud. The proposal of the IFP is an urgent call on all members of Parliament who are lawyers to lend a hand. We propose that all MPs who are lawyers offer part of their constituency weeks to report for work in our courts free of charge.

We could help as magistrates, prosecutors, clerks of the court, interpreters and as messengers. To Sheila, I say: Any work; even to make tea or wash dishes. There are dozens of lawyers in Parliament and in the nine provincial legislatures. They could publicly demonstrate Parliament’s resolve to help to save our justice system. This dramatic step by parliamentarians would hopefully encourage more lawyers and retired legal practitioners to also join in this drastic movement to help to save our justice system.

We do not know whether this is legally possible. If not, the hon the Minister can consider ways and means of changing it. I can already see Mr Johnny de Lange as a magistrate. If I were Mr Jannie Momberg, I would not appear in front of him. [Laughter.]

In conclusion, let it be seen that Parliament is serious and committed to save our justice system. Let us all jump in and get the justice cow out of the mud. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Before hon Chohan-Kota speaks, I would like all members to please pay attention, especially Mr M Da Camara. This debate will do you a lot of good, sir. Please take your seat. [Laughter.]

Ms F I CHOHAN-KOTA: Chairperson, it would be nice if the hon Van der Merwe actually came to our justice portfolio committee meetings more often. We are obviously in dire need of learning about cows, mud and things like that. [Laughter.]

On a more serious note, I say to the Minister that it follows logically that for the people of this country to accord the law due deference, the lawmakers and the enforcers of those laws should themselves accord due deference to the law. It is by and large the legislature’s task to make the law and it is by and large the task of the courts to enforce those laws through due processes.

When judges start criticising the law, not because the law is unconstitutional, but because they simply do not like it, the message that is conveyed is that the law deserves no respect. That observation can be made in the case of minimum mandatory sentences of the Criminal Law Amendment Act, and I want to quote from the lead article of the Cape Argus of 24 May 2000 entitled: ``Rape life term law a failure. Judges lash draconian sentences.’’ It says:

From the outset, judges have been extremely critical of the legislation saying it was appallingly drafted'',draconian’’ and that it limited their discretion.

I would like to deal with each of these separately. On the question of the legislation being appallingly drafted, let me say that casting aspersions in this way does enormous harm. And by the way, every one in this House should be affronted by the statement, because this law was passed unanimously by all parties.

I say that it does enormous harm because we are, after all, all of us here, legitimately elected representatives of the people of this country. It is the choice of the people that is being berated. This kind of statement questions our very competence as law-makers. It undermines the very essence of the checks and balances in our system of governance.

Let me say immediately that I am not for one minute suggesting that we, as members of Parliament, are above criticism. What I am saying is that the criticism should, at the very least, be founded on some sort of objective truth. The truth is that the mandatory minimum sentences two years down the line have not been found to be unconstitutional. Even the most critical judges have never suggested that this law was unconstitutional, and the reason for this is simple - we took extreme care when we drafted this law to ensure its constitutionality.

Given the fact that the law is constitutional, it is the job of the judiciary to implement it. To say that minimum sentences are draconian is inappropriate in the extreme. Members will remember that we imposed these mandatory sentences on the most heinous of crimes - sexual violence against children, gang rapes, murder, hijacking, and armed robbery, to name a few. When judges start pronouncing on anything other than the legality of the law, then they are no longer acting as judges, but as politicians.

The criticism that mandatory sentences limit judicial discretion does have some merit. But this law does not replace judicial discretion. If it did, it would be unconstitutional. The law allows judges to deviate from the sentences when there are substantial and compelling reasons to do so. The kinds of sentences that were being handed down for similar cases were unacceptably disparate and, in some instances, inappropriate for the kinds of serious crimes being committed.

The trend internationally is to offer guidelines to judges when faced with the difficult task of sentencing. There is a growing awareness internationally that judicial discretion, if left unstructured, leads to disparities and uncertainties, and this in turn impacts very directly on the very legitimacy of our judiciary. A child-rapist in Johannesburg should be treated very similarly to a child-rapist in Cape Town. Similar cases, as the Minister said, should be treated similarly. That was the objective of the legislation and, as the Minister pointed out, certainty in sentencing will only enhance the legitimacy of our courts. Nothing will harm the judiciary in this country as much as their own actions or inactions. If Parliament gives them the tools with which to strike out hard against serious crimes and criminals, and they fail to use those tools, then they will have only themselves to blame for the inevitable legitimacy crisis that will follow.

To the credit of the judiciary, most judges have welcomed these minimum sentence laws, and many have been applying the law correctly, without feeling insecure about their turf and so on, and they showed sufficient concern for victims of serious crime. I have with me one such example where in the hijack murder of 19-year-old Regan Roode, whose only crime was obeying traffic laws when he stopped at the stop sign where his assailants murdered him, the judge handed down the minimum sentence of life imprisonment, despite the fact that the assailants, too, were very young. Other judges, even though they eventually did not apply the mandatory sentences, used their discretion in accordance with the law, and with that we can have absolutely no argument.

The Law Commission, in its latest proposal, seems to have come up with a good way to deal with the balancing act of providing guidelines without totally removing judicial discretion. They now propose more general guidelines and propose a judicial discretion, if the circumstances are substantial and compelling, within a spectrum of deviation, so that judges will now be able to deviate, either higher or lower, but within a minimum set range.

The commission is also looking at sentencing processes more broadly, and it is suggesting things like payment of compensation to victims and allowing victims to be heard at sentencing. All of these proposals are refreshing, and it would be in the best interest of the country and, in particular, the judiciary, if our judges were to attend these workshops that are being held around the country in the next few weeks and were to embrace this process with a great deal of enthusiasm. [Applause.]

Mrs S M CAMERER: Chairperson, the New NP intends to support the Justice Vote. This can be seen as a leap of faith for various reasons. The facts on the ground, namely the inadequacy of the budget, the bad state of our courts and the court rolls, the previous mismanagement of the department’s finances, the unsatisfactory degree of implementation of recently passed statutes promoted by the Department of Justice, leave a lot to be desired.

However, we believe that we should give the Minister and his department the benefit of the doubt this time around. Our main reason for taking this position is that the department is now headed up by a bunch of new brooms. The new team must be given a chance to rectify matters.

Firstly, the Minister inherited a bad situation from his predecessor and has been in office for only a year. He got off to a fairly bad start, shooting his mouth off about Constitutional Court judges who did not work hard enough and was rapped over the knuckles by the Deputy President of the Constitutional Court himself, Pius Langa. However, he does seem to have settled down in the post, and he now demonstrates a praiseworthy inclination to question the established order and to indulge in some lateral thinking about the justice system.

I would like to congratulate the Minister on his call, reported in today’s newspapers, for leaders from all walks of life to tone down their criticism of the judiciary. Hopefully, top ANC officials like Smuts Ngonyama will take this to heart. It is also to the Minister’s credit that he is working with the private sector team to overhaul the department’s management structure.

Then there is the Deputy Minister who is also new. Not much is heard from her, and I must say she does not appear to be here today, but she has given undertakings to the Public Accounts Committee of Parliament to get the department’s internal audit under control and we will watch this very carefully.

The director-general is also newly appointed. Having acted in the post for nearly a year, Mr Vusi Pikoli has now taken over the reins. In the briefing to the portfolio committee on the budget, he has demonstrated an admirable frankness when questioned about the problems facing the department. We in the New NP wish him well with his important and daunting task. We would also like to congratulate all other members of the department involved in an excellent and detailed budget briefing to the Portfolio Committee on Justice.

Having said that, we believe we must draw attention to some severe shortcomings in the budget and in the department. In the first place, the budget is inadequate. Throughout the briefings to the justice portfolio committee the Minister, the director-general and various officials have acknowledged this, and the Minister confirmed here today that his department is, as he put it ``woefully underfunded’’.

As Mr Hassan Ebrahim, deputy director-general in charge of the department’s finances, also acknowledged, this year’s marginal increase of about 10% was less than satisfactory and barely keeps up with inflation. In fact, he made a point that the department has less funding for its operations this year than last year, which is entirely unsatisfactory. In fact, virtually every Justice department official who gave evidence to the committee on the budget deplored their lack of resources in their particular compartment of the department.

In a recent briefing to Parliament the Deputy Minister said: ``Justice is primarily about the courts.’’ And the courts are in a bad way. In the briefings, the director-general painted a grim picture, which has already been mentioned today. He admitted to huge backlogs of 130 000 criminal cases countrywide at the beginning of February this year, an inability to cope with the numbers of accused resulting from crime crackdowns - well, that is hopeless - unproductive lower courts which still sit less than an average of 3,5 hours a day, and a lack of discipline among court staff.

If one adds to this large numbers of vacant posts because of insufficient resources, it is small wonder that conviction rates in our courts have plummeted since 1994 when the ANC Government took office. The new brooms are faced with a probably impossible task, unless Government makes more funding available for the Department of Justice.

One of the major casualties of this lack of resources is the implementation of legislation. Sections of a dozen pieces of legislation passed by Parliament between 1996 and 1998 still have not been put into operation - in certain important cases because of lack of funds. For example, an improvement to the Criminal Procedure Act, providing for cost orders against parties delaying criminal proceedings, cannot be implemented, owing to financial and personnel constraints.

The appointment of lay assessors in the magistrates’ courts is also on hold because of lack of funds. The relevant legislation is detailed and sophisticated and in place, but witness protection is still in its infancy in our country because of lack of funding to implement it. This is a vital aspect of the prevention of organised crime, but it is not being done.

Possibly, the worst casualty of all is the failure of the Department of Justice to make financial provision for the appointment of maintenance investigators in terms of the new Maintenance Act of 1998. We all know that the maintenance courts are hopelessly inadequate at present. We were briefed, at the time we passed it with great fanfare, by the previous Minister that these maintenance investigators were the lynchpin of a new deal for women as far as the collection of maintenance is concerned.

The success or failure of the new maintenance dispensation is dependent on the appointment of these maintenance investigators. Well, so far, there can only be failure as there is apparently insufficient money to make the appointments. This new deal was universally welcomed by women and the way the department and the Government has dragged its feet over this issue is a bitter disappointment.

It is to his credit that the Minister has acknowledged the frustration of the justice committee at this state of affairs where legislation is rushed through Parliament and then there is a prolonged period before implementation. He has agreed that our criticism is justified. Hopefully, this will lead to improvements.

Besides lack of funding, there is another worrying aspect of the non- implementation of legislation, and that is the interference by departmental officials from Justice and other departments to stymie and delay the implementation of laws that have been passed by this Parliament. Prime examples are the domestic violence law, the legal aid guide and new provisions in the Criminal Procedure Act. This trend appears to be snowballing and it is entirely undemocratic, and we in the New NP appeal to the Minister to remain vigilant on this score and to stop the delays that are coming from this source.

In the few minutes that I have left, I would also like to draw attention to one area of the criminal law which we in the New NP believe merits urgent and detailed attention, and that is the rights of victims of crime. We are aware that the SA Law Commission is investigating and reporting to the Minister on aspects of these rights, in particular the right to compensation and the establishment of a victims’ fund. However, this has been going on for some time now, and nothing seems to materialise. We believe that there should be more urgency about the matter.

By way of private members’ legislation already submitted to the relevant committee, I have proposed, on behalf of the New NP, amendments to the Criminal Procedure Act to give victims of crime a more prominent role in court proceedings relating to the crimes committed against them. For example, instead of being treated as a mere witnesses, the victim of the crime would have a clearly defined role with the right to address the court in bail applications and sentencing proceedings and to have an input in parole hearings.

The victim should have a right to give the court a first-hand impression of the impact that the crime has had on his or her life. Last year, I submitted this draft legislation to the department and the previous Minister for comment, but received no response, which is why I have now gone the private member’s route.

In addition, the New NP believes that convicted criminals should be forced to take full time jobs in jail in order to pay compensation to their victims. The New NP proposes that changes to the law be investigated with the purpose of giving judges new powers to order anyone sent to prison for a serious or violent crime to make financial restitution to their victims for the physical and emotional harm they have inflicted. This should apply to every category of serious crime from theft and assault to rape and murder.

The New NP believes that the best way prisoners can reform is to work a full day and pay compensation to their victims. If we had our way, judges would get the power to decide a reparation order when handing down a sentence. The Government is presently considering an overhaul of correctional services and this aspect should also be taken into account.

We also have some questions for the Minister on aspects of the budget, which came to light only after his own briefing to the portfolio committee, and we would appreciate it if he could give us some answers today. The first question is about the Heath Unit. Everyone agrees that the Heath Unit is continuing to do a great job. Last financial year it recovered R314,8 million worth of Government assets of which more than R100 million were in cash - more than last year, when it was only R78 million. This year it is R100 million in cash.

However, the resources allocated to the unit have been decreased. In addition, some 127 draft proclamations asked for by the unit, which relate to corruption and maladministration cases involving upwards of R2 billion, are gathering dust in the Department of Justice. Until these proclamations are forwarded to the President for signature, no investigation can take place. Some of these relate to cases dating from 1997 and 1998. Apparently, the pretext for the delays and the financial squeeze on the unit is the possibility of creating another unit.

However, paralysis seems to have set in on all counts. Like Judge Heath yesterday, we want to ask the Minister: Does he not agree that this Government’s dithering is sending the wrong message to the country and the investing public about the Government’s approach to corruption? Why is the Heath Unit not properly funded? Why are the draft proclamations not being forwarded for the President’s signature? What is happening about the other units that are being talked about? We would appreciate it if the hon Minister could give us answers today.

Secondly, about the TRC reparations, it is surely unsatisfactory that a President’s Fund in excess of R300 million has been available for some time, and yet only 10% of that amount has been allocated thus far, and only a third of the allocated amount has actually been paid to identified TRC victims. Now, the Minister mentioned that a lot more victims have been identified and paid. He did not mention the amounts but I gathered that it still does not even amount to 10% of what is sitting there in the President’s Fund, which amounts to allocations made from the Justice Vote in the past two years.

In response to questions I and others put to the President during the President’s question time a couple of weeks ago, President Mbeki remarked that, yes, he supposed the process could be speeded up. Yesterday Hlengiwe Mkhize, chairperson of the TRC’s reparation committee, asked that the process be speeded up. Could the Minister tell us whether he agrees with the President and Ms Mkhize that the process should be speeded up? If so, what steps does he propose to speed up the payments? Could he also clarify why there is this enormous discrepancy between what actually has been paid

• 10% which is around R30 million out of the R300 million that is actually available - and yet the department is saying that possibly R3 000 million might have to be paid in future. There does not seem to be any connection between these amounts. I think some reality ought to come into the picture. [Time expired.]

Ms D P S JANA: Chairperson, hon Ministers and members, participating in this first budget debate of Minister Penuell Maduna is a very special honour for me, an honour I dedicate to friend, colleague, comrade and human rights lawyer Shun Chetty who recently passed on. I do so as a tribute to him and to those legendary lawyers who made very meaningful contributions to justice and the rule of law in South Africa - Bram Fischer, Duma Nokwe, Joe Slovo, Victoria and Griffiths Mxenge and Bheki Mlangeni. [Applause.]

My chairperson has encroached on my topic so I had to make some very hasty changes. Whether it was Niewoudt or Strydom or Williamson, once again apartheid’s ruthless murderer and superspy has been granted amnesty for the murders of Ruth First, Jeannette Schoon and her seven-year-old daughter, Katryn. Williamson walks free, totally absolved from criminal and delictual liability for these murders. The question is being asked: Is this justice? Emphatically, no! Justice means investigating the truth, punishing the guilty and granting reparation to the victim. However, our desperate quest for a peaceful, negotiated settlement for freedom and democracy compelled us to make a hard and compromising choice of truth and reconciliation before justice.

This was the price for freedom, a freedom born out of the painful sacrifices of victims of apartheid. We respect the amnesty commission’s decision and have to accept their findings, amongst other criteria, that Williamson’s murderous acts were committed with the political objective of apartheid, that he made a full disclosure and that the relationship between the murders he committed, including that of a little baby, was proportionate to the objectives of apartheid. What is difficult to accept is the evident disequilibrium in respect of the perpetrator and victim in the process of truth and reconciliation.

The amnesty has reopened wounds, and again inflicted pain and trauma on the families and friends of Ruth First, Jeannette and Katryn Schoon. They feel angry. They feel disillusioned and, perhaps, they even feel betrayed, but not surprisingly they are not crying out for compensation, because they know that there can never be adequate compensation for their pain and loss. What they are crying out for is some concrete gesture of genuine remorse from the perpetrators.

Remorse is not prescribed in the Constitution nor in the legislation. After all, it is a humane response that should flow from the depths of one’s conscience. We know that until that happens, the reconciliation that we so proudly claim and for which the entire world applauds us will be rendered a hollow victory. And any reparation intended to restore the dignity of victims will remain incomplete. One wonders why there is no criticism from opposition parties, especially the DP, against perpetrators who have been granted amnesty, but have failed to show remorse. However, they are quick to criticise the Government, quite unjustifiably, for not granting final reparation. Is this not sheer political opportunism?

The Government is firmly committed to the Constitution and its legal obligations, including international human rights law, for reparation to the victims recommended by the TRC. As President Mbeki said when questioned here in this house during Question Time, Government’s commitment to reparation is not only to victims whose fundamental human rights were violated by abuse, torture and death, but also to victims who endured pain, suffering, loss and injustice through dispossession of land, forced removals, poverty, malnutrition, homelessness, education deprivation and disempowerment.

The Government is further committed to equate reparations for victims recommended by the TRC with those victims of gross violations of human rights who were not part of the TRC process, but nonetheless deserving of reparation. Under the enormity of the Government’s responsibility and limitation of resources, reparation was never intended as compensation for individual delictual claim, but as mitigation for loss and suffering. It is therefore directed more holistically towards reconciliation and reconstruction of society. Therefore, final reparation will have to be integrated with national programmes of social development.

Urgent reparations for cash amounts have already been implemented, as we heard the Minister say, but final reparation is, however, pending the completion of the outstanding matters of the amnesty committee. There are about 730 matters which are expected to be finalised in the next few months. The budget allocation for this is R8,5 million. However, the TRC has motivated for a total of about R30 million. We must urge the Government to facilitate the completion of the TRC’s mandate within the timeframe. Much time has elapsed already since the perpetration of the violations. Therefore, it is imperative that reparation must be effected soon, or else the healing process will be aborted.

In the meantime there are serious concerns about policy formulation, structuring and co-ordinating mechanisms nationally and provincially, allocating resources and generating funds from donors and the private sector, and consultation and debate among Government, the private sector, NGOs and civil society. There appears to be no reason why these processes cannot begin now.

Finally, reparation is a moral obligation of all South Africans, but it places a special moral onus on the beneficiaries of apartheid privilege, especially those in this House who are so vociferous about reparation. They should put their money where their mouth is. In support of this budget, I conclude with a poem selected by … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr M E MABETA: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, we rise today to speak in support of this budget. Our approach is a simple one. The central issue here is transformation in the Justice department. Secondly, we visit the issue of reconciliation and reparations, and thirdly, the role of traditional courts and community courts in the justice system in our country.

I would like to start by commending the portfolio chairperson, hon De Lange, and his stand-in at times, Ms Jana, on their efforts in engaging members of the committee in an exciting and pointed manner in discussing the passage of a piece of legislation at different stages. I thank them very much.

We must be proud that, for the first time in our society, we have justice that is accessible to all people at a cost that is effective for everyone. These efforts, when seen against the much universally recognised moral imperative which prompted South Africans to introduce the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act of 1995, are historic and honourable. We should be proud and give credit to those whose wisdom and foresight gave birth to them, because a special psychological and spiritual avenue, previously blocked by the evil ideology of apartheid, carefully crafted and ruthlessly implemented by the NP government, was created for all South Africans to find each other and reconcile themselves. The important aspect in the issue of reconciliation is that the cycle of reconciliation must be completed, so that when the perpetrators are pardoned and walk away in the comfort and assurance that they can start new lives, their victims are fully aware of how the interim relief funds and other arrangements will enable them to plan their own lives. I find the suggestion by Ms Jana very interesting, ie that maybe there should be a requirement in the legislation that those who have been pardoned, the perpetrators, must be forced to make a sizeable contribution towards meeting or addressing the difficulties facing the victims of their actions.

We in my party do not believe that if this were to be done, it would be vindictive or retributive, but rather feel that those who were perpetrators would be forced to accept the moral responsibility for their actions and to find an avenue, free from the fray and the heat of politics, to simply say: ``I am sorry, thank you. Rise and let us go.’’ There is nothing wrong with money as reparation, because we are dealing with victims who have families and children, some of whom cannot go to school while others have to consult doctors for the rest of their lives. One is dealing with a real life situation for the most part, of people who even before they were victimised, were finding it very difficult to meet their daily needs of life.

On the question of traditional courts, we believe that they have a very significant role to play in our society in that the chiefs can be trained, and have assessors and administrative staff made available to them. They can then play a much more rehabilitative role than the criminal justice system does, which tends to incarcerate but does not rehabilitate individuals. On the question of training, there needs to be more convergence in the training of magistrates, prosecutors and the investigating officials, so that one should not have this pattern of disappearing police dockets to a point where the victim and the ordinary person in the street feel that justice has not been meted out.

We are concerned that there is this talk about financial mismanagement in the Department of Justice. Our suggestion is that maybe the Minister needs to seriously revisit the issue of the nature of the management structures in the Department of Justice. How does Coca-Cola win a bid from Pepsi-Cola, and then allow the Pepsi-Cola management to run the company? [Interjections.] [Time expired.] Mr J S MGIDI: Mr Chairperson, the fight against crime and the creation of a just society based on the principles of equality and freedom are a collective responsibility of all of us in this House and outside.

The Government, private sector, NGOs, community-based organisations and inidividuals all need to constitute a single and very powerful offensive against crime. Crime is a national menace against which we should all close ranks and destroy it. Our public utterances about crime, therefore, should not create an impression that some of us hate crime and are determined to fight it, whilst others wish that it could boom so that they can use it to gain cheap political capital.

Yes, there are weaknesses here and there that need attention, but the resolve of this Government to deal with crime is by now beyond question. One of the praiseworthy strides made by this Government in its endeavour to fight crime was the creation of the National Directorate of Public Prosecutions and its subsidiaries. Noteworthy amongst these is the Assets Forfeiture Unit, a novel concept in our judiciary. This unit, which is only about a year old, has already made an incredible impact in our Government’s effort to deal with serious and organised crime. Already, it is sending a very clear message to criminals, especially the bosses of organised crime syndicates, that crime does not and will not pay in our country. With a meagre staff complement of about seven professionals only, this unit has shown unparalleled dedication, commitment and capability to cause sleepless nights for criminals.

Through these and other crime agencies, our Government is taking the war to criminals, and I believe that this is a war the criminals will never win. As is the case with most novel concepts, the first few months of the existence of the Assets Forfeiture Unit were not without worrying difficulties and challenges. When it was created, many experts and commentators from some jurisdictions in the world warned that we should expect a fierce legal battle orchestrated, marshalled and commanded by the rich and very powerful criminals who obviously want to protect and retain their ill-gotten wealth. For this purpose, they would use their ill-gotten resources to employ the best legal brains available in the market.

Using their power and wealth, I want to believe that they will also try to secure the services of some of our unscrupulous and unprincipled politicians in this regard. In addition, we were warned that some honourable judges would be reluctant to implement the law, which they would see as draconian in spite of its intended and noble objective of fighting crime, regarded by many as a national menace. Indeed, probably to the delight of those who want to use the scourge of crime as an opportunity for political point-scoring, these experts were proved correct. The unit has been in and out of court on countless occasions because, as predicted, these criminals are trying to find some possible weaknesses or uncertainties in the law for their own survival.

It is pleasing, however, to note that, despite all the technical and legal hiccups, overall, the unit is making tremendous successes. We have just been told by the Minister today that, of the 25 cases that the unit initiated, it was successful with 23 of them. This represents an admirable success. Again, we have heard that the unit has thus far seized assets to the value of about R70 million. Is it not something that this nation should be proud of? The message is now loud and clear to the criminals, and that is that in a matter of time the law will catch up with them.

The Government is determined to hit the criminals where it hurt most - that is, in their pockets. This Government will do this by closing down their infrastructure, such as the drug houses, bars and clubs from which criminal activities are planned and committed, amongst others. We must all warn these criminals that winning a case not on merit, but on technicalities can only give them temporary relief. The Government is determined to continuously improve the legal framework, while at the same time continuing to launch a fierce legal offensive on the criminals until there is not a single technical hole through which the criminals can escape the wrath of the law.

The unit is amongst a few other strategic crime-fighting agencies designed to combat crime, as well as create a safe and better life for our people. Among these, we have a court management unit whose basic task is to improve the managerial capacity of the courts. The National Prosecution Authority, whose overall objective includes improving the prosecutorial capacity of our court system, the newly established Sexual Offences and Community Affairs Unit, the Directorate of Special Operations or the Scorpions, and others, are all an indication of this Government’s absolute resolve to combat crime, despite certain attention-deserving technical weaknesses.

We are humbled by the commitment of the private sector and other sectors in dealing with crime. This House and, indeed, the people on whose behalf it speaks, are appreciative of their patriotism, and we welcome their contribution and call for some more.

When the hon Dr Delport began his speech, he promised to defy what has become the DP’s tradition of destructive criticism, and to make a constructive input. However, what he, unfortunately, was successful in doing, was to publicly display his selective morality and his skewed conception of racism.

Who would be regarded as being discriminating, between a team that defies the rules of its own association and excludes all others except players of a particular racial group and is seen by its own association as, thereby, perpetuating racial discrimination, and an association that says: ``Hey, open up. This is the new South Africa. There is democracy and no more discrimination.’’ [Applause.] Mr S N SWART: Mr Chairperson and hon Minister, the purpose of Government is primarily to protect the life, liberty and property of all individuals, by punishing criminals and protecting law-abiding citizens. There is no doubt, however, that the South African criminal justice system is struggling to cope, and that without an equitable and adequate system of law enforcement and criminal prosecution, the high levels of crime and violence will become institutionalised in the social fabric of our society.

During the recent budget hearings and the Budget Vote, it became apparent that a number of serious issues are facing the department. The allegations related to corruption and the large number of outstanding misconduct hearings are matters of grave concern which clearly require urgent attention.

The Justice department should be the role model in Government and, therefore, these aspects are particularly disturbing. The ACDP welcomes the undertakings given by the director-general, Mr Pikoli, to address these issues as a matter of great urgency. Clearly, the whole controversy surrounding the Legal Aid Board is a cause for further concern. However, Judge Navsa’s approach is, indeed, refreshing and, depending on the extent of the unknown factor referred to by the judge in his submission, we, in the ACDP, believe that he and his team will be able to rectify the financial crisis experienced by the board.

I do not wish to labour the issue of the Heath Special Investigating Unit, referred to by my colleagues in the opposition. Suffice it to say that the ACDP is of the view that the unit has developed expert investigative skills and an impressive infrastructure over a period of time, and that, instead of its work being curtailed, the unit should be given the necessary resources to continue with its nationally and internationally acclaimed fight against crime and corruption.

The call by the National Director of Public Prosecutions that there should be a duty on accused persons to disclose their defence, should be supported, as this will definitely speed up the finalisation of criminal matters. If the state is obliged to discover police dockets, the defence should similarly disclose its case.

As far as maintenance is concerned, the ACDP looks forward to the implementation of sections 5 and 7 of the Maintenance Act, related to the appointment of maintenance investigators, as the lack of such investigations is a cause of great hardship and frustration to many women in our country.

In conclusion, it should be noted that the recent United Nations crime conference emphasised victims’ rights and considered the concept of restorative justice. Restorative justice is, in the first instance, a form of criminal justice based on reparation to victims. The goal of the process is to heal the wounds of every person affected by crime. In this context, reparation to the victim and community is regarded as a duty or obligation on the offender. Judge Fred McElrea holds the view that restorative justice offers the world the healing power of repentance and forgiveness, of justice with mercy, of God’s love for all people. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr G B MAGWANISHE: Mr Chairperson and hon members, in less than two weeks from today, we will be celebrating the national Youth Day. It is with this in mind that, in supporting this budget, I think it will be paying a special tribute to young men and women who sacrificed their lives for this freedom.

Budget Day, in the past, used to be a day of sorrow and pain for the majority of South Africans, because it meant more resources for that financial year - resources for repression and oppression of the population. Today, Budget Day brings hope where there is no hope. It brings one a message that something is being done on one’s behalf. I might not benefit today or tomorrow, but that day is also coming to me.

One of the most important pillars of any just society is its ability to make justice accessible to the entire population. As this Government, we are in the process of creating a society in which access to justice is not determined by the amount of capital one has or by any other discriminatory measures, but by the fact that one is a human being and one has rights.

In making sure that all South Africans have access to justice, we need to bear in mind that the present judicare is too costly to be sustainable, and a more affordable system must be introduced. The best system for a country like ours will be a public defender system. This system allows for salaried lawyers to be employed. Those lawyers will then assist people by giving them legal advice and representing those who cannot afford to pay for legal representation.

It is important to note that even though there is a hierarchy of needs, there is no hierarchy of rights. A right to privacy is not more important than the right to education, and vice versa. As Government, we must make sure that we balance resources so that all these rights can be exercised by all South Africans. There will be no point in paying for a lawyer for every person who appears in court, if one will not be in a position to buy medicine for the sick.

Young law graduates will now be ready, once the national youth service programme is passed by this Parliament, to perform one year of community service to the poor. This programme will give them skills and it will give more access to legal services. It is also important to recognise and thank the role that is being played by organisations like the Legal Resources Centre, Lawyers for Human Rights, law clinics, advice centres, donor agencies and companies that are sponsoring these organisations. These organisations provide free legal service to people who might not be in a position to afford such services and some whose rights have been seriously violated. There are some lawyers who also contribute a lot of their time and skills in making sure that there is justice for all. These noble contributions are highly appreciated by us, South Africans. The challenge we face as this country cannot be overcome by Government alone, but by collective and individual efforts of all of us.

More courts are being built in previously disadvantaged communities. These courts will also take into account the needs of disabled people. We are trying to bring justice to all people.

The new Legal Aid Board, under Judge Navsa, is trying its level best to make sure that South Africans will now get value for their money. We hope that two years from today, we shall see the good fruits of their labour. The inaccessibility of justice to all people of South Africa becomes a licence to women and children-abusers to continue with their brutal actions, even for criminals to continue terrorising this nation, and that we shall not allow.

Our words and actions …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member Hangana and hon member George, please pay attention to the debate! [Laughter.]

Mr G B MAGWANISHE: Our words and actions must show that justice is on our side and, therefore, no one will defeat us. [Applause.]

Mr M T MASUTHA: Chairperson, central to the struggle for democracy in South Africa was the call for the installation of a human rights dispensation. Indeed, the Freedom Charter bears evidence of the ANC’s long-held belief that there can be neither democracy without human rights nor human rights without democracy.

To demonstrate this, the very first two of the Freedom Charter’s ideals were, firstly, that the people shall govern and, secondly, that all national groups shall have equal rights. In its founding provisions, as contained in Chapter 1 of the Constitution under section 1, it states:

The Republic of South Africa is one, sovereign, democratic state founded on the following values:

(a) Human dignity, the achievement of equality and the advancement of human rights and freedoms.

The Constitution then proceeds, in Chapter 2, to establish a Bill of Rights and states under section 7(1) that:

This Bill of Rights is a cornerstone of democracy in South Africa. It enshrines the rights of all people in our country and affirms the democratic values of human dignity, equality and freedom.

Finally, the Constitution concludes, in this regard, in Chapter 9, by establishing state institutions supporting constitutional democracy, one of which is the Human Rights Commission. In terms of section 184 of the Constitution, which lays out the functions of the Human Rights Commission:

The Human Rights Commission must -

(a) promote respect for human rights and a culture of human rights; (b) promote the protection, development and attainment of human rights; and

(c) monitor and assess the observance of human rights in the Republic.

The Human Rights Commission deserves applause for the invaluable work it has performed since its inception, some five years ago, in promoting respect for, monitoring and assessing the observance of, human rights in South Africa. A more recent example of this is the commission’s inquiry into racism in the media which has stirred up many reactions, and still remains one of the topical issues in our society.

May I at this point mention in passing that I find it rather discomforting that the Official Opposition has, thus far, shown little commitment to the strengthening of a human rights culture in South Africa, apart from generally opposing and, in fact, attacking most efforts aimed at fostering a culture of human rights in this country, especially efforts aimed at eradicating racism except in situations where white people seem to be the victims of racism, as has been demonstrated by the hon Dr Delport this afternoon. [Interjections.] It has gone further to launch an uncalled-for attack on the Human Rights Commission, as observed previously in this House and, more recently, at the committee’s budget hearings.

On a personal level, I find it even more ironic, when I reflect on memories of my past experiences as a law student at Wits University a decade ago, where the leader of the Official Opposition, the hon Mr Leon, lectured me on the subject of human rights. I recall how he, as a lecturer in this field, would so tenaciously defend the notion of a human rights dispensation through the introduction of a bill of rights in South Africa. Perhaps it was the recognition and protection of property rights, more than anything else, that he was interested in. [Applause.] I am especially making this observation against the backdrop of the DP’s fervent reaction to the land issue in Zimbabwe on the one hand, and on the other hand, its apparent lack of interest in the difficulties that are being experienced with regard to land distribution in South Africa, especially in view of the willing buyer-willing seller situation. [Applause.]

Turning back to the role of the commission, I wish to make an observation that, whilst many successes may have been achieved in the areas of work I referred to earlier, more work still needs to be done, especially in promoting the protection and attainment of human rights through, amongst other means, litigation against human rights violations. The onslaught against human rights tends to take vicious forms, and to counteract it therefore often requires tougher measures than merely educating people about or sensitising them towards a human rights culture.

May I, in conclusion, wish the Human Rights Commission well in its work and express my sincere hope that the allocation made for it in this Vote will enable it not only to sustain, but also to develop, its outreach so as to achieve maximum impact in its struggle against human rights violations which must, by the way, remain a struggle for all of us. Aluta continua! [Applause.]

Gen C L VILJOEN: Chairperson, hon Minister, in the three minutes at my disposal, I would like to draw the Minister’s attention to two issues, firstly, the Heath Special Investigating Unit and, secondly, the effectiveness of our courts.

Ten opsigte van die Heath Spesiale Ondersoekeenheid wil ek eerstens sê dit is ‘n baie effektiewe eenheid, en ek wil die VF se gelukwense aan hulle oordra. Daar is aan my gerapporteer dat daar in een boekjaar R111 miljoen se staatsgeld herwin is. In die tydperk voor daardie jaar was dit R60 miljoen, wat dus duidelik aandui dat die eenheid omtrent drie keer meer geld herwin as wat dit kos om aan die gang te hou.

Dit is tweedens ‘n broodnodige eenheid. Daar is tans ‘n baie groot hoeveelheid sake by die eenheid, ongeag die rompslomp. Ek hoop ook die Minister sal die aandag oor hierdie prosedures opknap, soos die agb lid mev Camerer gevra het. Korrupsie is ‘n kanker en hierdie eenheid is ‘n afskrikmiddel. Daarom het dit ‘n broodnodige funksie, en behoort dit meer aandag te kry.

Derdens wil ek by die Minister pleit dat hy nou vir die Heath-eenheid sy groter begroting moet gee. Hy vra ‘n addisionele R10 miljoen tot R15 miljoen wat hy tans nodig het vir die uitbreidings. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I firstly want to say in respect of the Heath Special Investigating Unit that it is a very effective unit, and I want to convey the compliments of the FF to them. It has been reported to me that in one financial year state funds to the value of R111 million were recovered. In the period prior to that year the amount was R60 million, which therefore clearly indicates that the unit is recovering about three times as much money as it costs to keep them operational.

In the second place, this is an essential unit. The unit is currently investigating a large number of cases, in spite of the red tape. I also hope that the Minister will tighten up these procedures, as requested by the hon member Mrs Camerer. Corruption is a cancer and this unit is a deterrent. That is why it performs an essential function and should be receiving more attention.

In the third place, I appeal to the Minister to give the Heath unit its increased budget. They are currently asking for an additional R10 million to R15 million, which is needed for extensions.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member over there, you are not allowed to talk to members across the benches. Please take your seat.

Genl C L VILJOEN: As die Minister dan nie die geld het om vir die eenheid te gee nie, vra ek hom om dan vir die Heath-eenheid ‘n uitdaging te stel en te sê elke jaar se begroting sal ‘n limiet hê wat die helfte is van die vorige jaar se besparings of herwinnings van die staat se geld.

Hoekom pleit ek so? Eerstens omdat dit ‘n effektiewe eenheid is wat meer geld vir die staat terugbring as wat dit die staat kos, en tweedens omdat dit net eenvoudig goeie besigheid is. Derdens meen ek dit is ‘n broodnodige eenheid wat as teenkorrupsie-instrument werk. Ek pleit ook by die private sektor dat hulle hierdie eenheid om dieselfde redes sover moontlik moet help, ook omdat dit grondwetlik toelaatbaar is vir hierdie eenheid om by die private sektor geld te kry.

Die tweede saak wat ek wil noem, is die doeltreffendheid van ons howe. Ons howe se onvermoë is ‘n versteekte oorsaak van die swak misdaadsituasie in ons land. Eerstens is ons tronke oorvol verhoorafwagtende mense. Die agb lid Patricia de Lille het in die afgelope paar dae ná haar besoek aan Pollsmoor weer hieroor gerapporteer. Groot hoeveelhede jong mense sit in die gevangenis en wag om verhoor te word. Daar is groot frustrasie onder hierdie verhoorafwagtendes, en dan word daar baie staatsgeld vermors met sake wat laat begin, dossiere wat wegraak en swak administrasie en voorbereiding in die algemeen. Ek wil die agb Minister ‘n vraag vra. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Gen C L Viljoen: If the Minister does not have the money to give to the unit, I then ask him to set the Heath unit a challenge by stating that each annual budget will carry with it a limit that amounts to half of the previous year’s savings or state funds recovered.

Why do I make this plea? Firstly, because it is an effective unit which returns more money to the state than it is costing the state and, secondly, because this simply is good business practice. In the third place, I am of the opinion that it is an essential unit which operates as an anticorruption instrument. I am also appealing to the private sector to assist this unit as much as possible for the same reasons, also because it is constitutionally acceptable for this unit to receive funds from the private sector.

The second issue that I would like to mention is the effectiveness of our courts. The failure of our courts is a covert reason for the bad crime situation in our country. In the first place our prisons are crowded with people awaiting trial. Over the past few days the hon member Patricia de Lille has again reported about this after her visit to Pollsmoor. Large numbers of young people are sitting in jail awaiting trial. There is great frustration among these people awaiting trial, and then a lot of state funds are being wasted on cases that start late, files that disappear and generally poor administration and preparatory work. I want to ask the Minister a question.]

I realise the complexity of our court systems. However, will the Minister not consider the immediate initiation of a proper, professional work study team or a project to streamline the procedures in our courts to improve the methods of applying justice and to recommend better utilisation of resources and the around-the-clock working of our courts? [Time expired.]

Ms N G W BOTHA: Chairperson and hon members, the success of democracy in a country depends very much on the representation and accommodation of a cross-section of the population’s interests and viewpoints.

Thus, in today’s Vote, it is important to examine how gender-responsive our Department of Justice and Constitutional Development has been thus far. Looking at the legislation passed by this Parliament to date, which affects particularly women in South Africa, I would like to focus on a few, namely the Divorce Courts Amendment Act, the Recognition of Customary Marriages Act, the Domestic Violence Act, the Maintenance Act and the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act. Our Government is to be commended for its commitment to democratic principles and gender equality.

Whereas the amendment of the Divorce Courts Act is to be appreciated, we are looking forward to the establishment of permanent family courts. We believe that these courts would assist tremendously in alleviating the problems experienced by women, men and children in the process of attempting to resolve family disputes.

We also appreciate the daunting task placed before the department to draft regulations pertaining to the Recognition of Customary Marriages Act. We believe, however, that further amendments may be required to address the whole question of conflict between customary law and the common law with regard to marriages.

We are also awaiting with interest the outcome of the amendment of the Customary Law of Succession Bill, which is intended to provide for the protection of spouses and children in a potentially polygamous marriage.

With regard to the Domestic Violence Act, which replaced and improved upon the Prevention of Family Violence Act in providing for the granting of protection orders with regard to domestic violence, this came into effect on 15 December. The national SA Police Services’ instruction has also assisted tremendously in the implementation of this Act.

However, comments attributed to some senior members of the SAPS are disturbing. It was reported in the Sunday Tribune not so long ago that there were so many arrests made within the first two months of the Act coming into operation that the SAPS head office had to tell police to slow down and refer to the Act which provides that arrests must only be effected ``if there is a danger that persons may be harmed if the person is not arrested’’. This attitude may be perceived by victims of domestic violence, the police and the public as meaning that these matters are of lesser importance. It has also been brought to our attention that deliberate delays in acting against perpetrators of domestic violence are caused by some irresponsible police officers, particularly in cases where a perpetrator is a police officer. This is totally unacceptable.

We appreciate the work done by the Department of Justice in this regard, and would suggest that it continues to provide training for magistrates, and judges in particular, as well as ensuring that police officers are trained and act decisively in dealing with such matters. We also need to revisit the entire sexual offences legislation, and we look forward to it being tabled soon.

With regard to the Maintenance Act, which came into operation on 25 November last year, except for certain sections which relate to maintenance investigators, we trust that adequate provision has been made for the funding for investigators and that the approval of a policy relating to the appointment of maintenance investigators will be expedited. This Act has alleviated the problem of nonpayment of maintenance which resulted in the burden of supporting a family, in most instances, falling on women.

Here, too, it is important to note that not all maintenance officers are prepared to assist claimants, who are invariably women. This is a matter of concern and we urge the department to ensure that officers are properly trained and supervised to carry out the intentions of this legislation.

The Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act is the cornerstone of our democracy and its objective is to give effect to the letter and spirit of the Constitution, especially to the founding values of equality, human dignity and freedom of expression. It is heartening to learn that the departmental implementation task team is hard at work attending to the recommendations made by Parliament with regard to this legislation. We trust that, as soon as the Equality Review Committee is established, the Minister will look into the possibility, together with this committee, of the inclusion of additional prohibited grounds for discrimination, in particular HIV/Aids status, socioeconomic status and nationality. We must, however, urge the Minister and the department to hasten the auditing of existing legislation so as to identify laws which may conflict with this Act and to eliminate any inconsistencies.

Gender equality is a relatively new concept to most South Africans. We are still in the process of laying the foundations of a society that fully understands, respects and promotes the human rights of women. Civil society and the private sector constantly require more information and training on gender issues. Similarly, those of us who are entrusted with the making of laws and policies are constantly striving towards a clearer understanding of gender equality. A sound knowledge of gender issues is essential in ensuring that laws and policies do not discriminate on the grounds of gender, and actively promote gender equality.

One of the crucial responsibilities of the Commission on Gender Equality is the evaluation of legislation and policies in all spheres of Government. The Commission reported to the portfolio committee recently that it has had to restrict its focus to national Government because of its limited resources and financial constraints.

Furthermore, the increased awareness of the public of the activities of the commission has resulted in a steady increase in gender-related complaints being referred to them. In addition to the commission’s task to monitor the Government’s implementation of Cedaw and other international instruments, the commission is sometimes invited to give input and guidance to SADC forums, as many countries in the SADC region are only taking the first steps towards setting up similar structures.

The CGE budget simply does not allow this kind of international interaction. We commend the CGE for the excellent work that they have been doing. We are particularly heartened by the clean report of the Auditor- General in respect of financial statements of the CGE. This is very encouraging.

In conclusion, I would like us to remember the women who are gathered in the United States at the Beijing + 5 conference deliberating on the issues relating to the improvement of the quality of life and status of women. We also commend our Government for committing itself, in practical ways, to the promotion of gender equality, and the department for its effort to transform the justice system.

Lastly, we would like to thank the Minister, the Deputy Minister and the department for the continued support they have given us as the portfolio committee and as individuals. It is always a pleasure to work with them. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Chairperson and hon Minister, fighting crime is a key national priority. This budget provides support to that fight with substantial extra spending on justice. The emphasis is on vigorous, focused and orientated programmes to strengthen and integrate prevention, direction, prosecution and punishment.

The aim of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development is to promote order within the community by maintaining an efficient system of judicial administration, and to promote constitutional development. It endeavours to do this by conducting the overall management of the department and providing for support of the management and administration of all courts in the RSA. It also provides legal and legislative services to the state and citizens of South Africa, provides a co-ordinated prosecutorial service to the state and renders supporting services.

It is gratifying to note that the department has identified certain priority areas such as providing for the support of the management and administration of all courts in South Africa, that is the Constitutional Court, Supreme Court of Appeal, High Court, specialised courts and lower courts. Therefore, the increase from R1,2 billion to R1,5 billion is reasonable and justifiable.

However, it is regrettable for the Truth and Reconciliation Commission to fold up, leaving behind it what is perceived by many as a failure to address the expectations and hardships of the bereaved. More funds could have been made available to compensate the victims for the loss of their loved ones and for the trauma which they suffered.

Many South Africans are expecting a lot from the new Directorate of Special Operations, known as the Scorpions, to bring the crime rate, political violence and serious economic offences down to an acceptable level. Let us create a good working relationship with this unit, by encouraging it to do only the best for the people of this wonderful country. Let us give it a chance to settle down and focus on the eradication of crime for the comfort of us all.

This department should strive to take service to the farthest corners of South Africa. Incentives should be created to encourage prosecutors and magistrates to enjoy serving in these areas. Administrative facilities should also be improved, to facilitate the service delivery. [Time expired.]

Dr S E M PHEKO: Mr Chairman, the Ministry of Justice and Constitutional Development is technically a double Ministry. It has a Herculean task in the development of the jurisprudence of this country. Its budget is inadequate. Nevertheless, the PAC supports the Vote on it. For the justice system to be effective it must have well-trained court officers, court interpreters must be trained in medico-legal terminology, especially in rape cases; and pay and conditions of service must be good, so as to create a climate conducive to prevent inefficiency and corruption where dockets get lost or where the accused sits in jail for five years without trial.

The case of Mrs Julia Mashele is particularly outrageous in a country which boasts of protecting human rights. It is a cardinal principle of law that justice delayed is justice denied. The death penalty was abolished in this country, but there are prisoners whose death sentences have not been commuted to this day. This must be corrected at once.

The question of the development of the Constitution is critical if human rights in this country are to have a meaning. In order to benefit the citizens of this country, especially the poor, the positive aspects of this Constitution must be translated into reality. For instance, what good is the right of access, if many poor people in this country have no means of access to legal process and legal aid has literally collapsed?

The Ministry of Justice and Constitutional Development must see that the Constitution means what it says and the rights it proclaims are not prohibitive financially. Despite the provisions of section 26 of the Constitution, the poor are evicted from land every day.

The Constitution, in its preamble, says it honours those who suffered for justice and freedom in our land. But many former freedom fighters in this country, especially members of the Azanian Peoples Liberation Army, languish in the prisons of South Africa.

The Constitution claims that it recognises principles of international law, but somehow it is blind to the serious implications of ignoring the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid; hence the Truth and Reconciliation Commission can criminalise the African struggle for liberation by putting the former freedom fighters of this country on the same pedestal with the former perpetrators of apartheid.

The Constitution purports to recognise traditional leaders, but in practice it does not recognise their traditional control of land and their custodianship of African customary law and culture in their areas. Sections 211 and 212 are couched in a language that does not really give rise to traditional leaders.

Section 25(7) on land claims, which only covers the period after June 1913, is a political scandal of our time. It is a betrayal of the struggle for land repossession. Section 235 is a mutilation of the principle of self- determination as understood in international law. It must be repealed. It can only cause trouble in the future.

Much work is to be done on this Constitution, so that it serves the interests of the economically downtrodden and socially degraded majority of the country. Justice is truth in action! Justice is truth in action! [Laughter.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister, South Africa was an outcast during the rule of the apartheid regime. Most people in the country were excluded from participating in international dialogue. As a result, this excluded our legal system from enjoying the full benefit of international development in the diverse branches of law and human rights.

The vision for a new system of justice in the democratic South Africa implements the values of the Constitution, especially the values of equality and dignity, so that every person should have a fair and equal access to justice and dignity. The rights and security of every individual, regardless of race, gender, material status or any other difference, are guaranteed. Implementing and monitoring a sophisticated justice system within the confinement of our limited resources is an enormous challenge, because our country is still in a transition phase.

The justice and constitutional development system is dealing with problems that are experienced in societies in transition, such as an increase in crime, social decay and a decline in the law officials’ morale, which hampers the transformation process and imposes more demands on the material and human resources. Several strategic priorities have been implemented, or are receiving attention, eg the system of specialised courts, the Directorate of Special Operations, the Commission on Gender Equality, and the investigation of the role of traditional courts in the administration of justice.

The existence of the Public Protector system is utilised as a remedy mechanism against any illegitimate act that contradicts the Constitution or legislation. The duty of the Public Protector is to demonstrate how the rule of law should be implemented to protect the rights of the people, as set out in the legislation and the Constitution. The presence of the Public Protector is one of the cornerstones of democracy in South Africa.

The goal of the justice and constitutional development system is to meet the diverse needs of the disadvantaged. Unfortunately the backlog in case works, the lack of qualified administrative support staff, the lack of manpower, an inadequate basic infrastructure, a slow access to relevant information, the high cost of legal fees and the absence of competitive salaries to public prosecutors inhibit an effective management of courts and the administration of justice.

The legal aid fiscal policy must be reviewed, for it must take into consideration that serious offences and the requirement to earn less than R2 000 must not be the underlying criteria in determining an individual’s access to legal aid. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Adv H C SCHMIDT: Mr Chairperson, the justice system, and I quote from a speech by the hon the Minister to the Pretoria Press Club, ``is in danger of collapse’’. We, however, differ on the reasons for this. The inadequate budgets of previous years have led to clear breakdowns in the system. The following serves as an illustration. A visit to Westville Prison in KwaZulu- Natal on 31 May last week indicated a 200% overcrowding of awaiting-trial prisoners. Today’s Business Day reports threats by the Western Cape commissioner to refuse to accept more prisoners if the justice and police departments do not gain control over their departments.

A letter by the Deputy Judge President of the Witwatersrand Local Division to the hon the Minister states the following with regard to the allocated budget, and I quote:

Last year, the recording of court proceedings cost approximately R725

1. What reason is there for anyone in his right senses to think that we can, this year, get through on R450 000? These examples can be manifold, but I must not omit specific mention of cutting back on staff.

A certain Mr Ranchod whose wife’s murderers were released yesterday, stated in The Star of today:

I am very disappointed with the law. Ministers keep harping on about coming down hard on crime. It does not show here. The criminals seem to have more rights than the victims.

Daar is ‘n ernstige en duur opeenhoping van sake in die howe, wat die belastingbetalers miljoene rande per dag kos. So blyk dit dat die departement dit tans oorweeg om toegekende merietebelonings aan personeel, insluitende dié aan senior landdroste, nie te betaal nie.

‘n Donasie van R10 miljoen deur Vodacom wat in die Wynberg-landdroskantoor ‘n uitstekende infrastruktuur gelewer het, word gekortwiek deur tydelike personeel kennis te gee van die beëindiging van hulle dienskontrakte. Die gevolg is ‘n uitstekende struktuur met ‘n totale gebrek aan personeel. ‘n Magstryd tussen streekkantore en die nasionale hoofkantoor van die departement ontaard tans in die maak van bewerings dat die departement op die randjie staan van ‘n totale ineenstorting.

Die onderbefondsing van regsbiblioteke, onder meer dié van die hooggeregshowe, die mobilisering van private regslui om bydraes te maak tot die befondsing van hulle plaaslike landdroskantore, die bedanking van tot agt senior landdroste in ‘n streek op een dag, die radikale besnoeiing van begrotings aan streke en die gepaardgaande vlakke van stres, depressie en angs onder amptenary is besig om te lei tot ‘n krisis in die departement. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [There is a serious and expensive accumulation of cases in the courts, which is costing the taxpayers millions of rands every day. Apparently the department is now considering not paying staff, including senior magistrates, merit awards that have been allocated to them.

A donation of R10 million by Vodacom, which provided an excellent infrastructure in the Wynberg magistrates’ office, is being hampered by the fact that temporary staff are being notified of the termination of their service contracts. The result is an excellent structure with a total lack of staff. A power struggle between regional offices and the national head office of the department is at present causing adverse statements to be made that the department is on the brink of total collapse.

The underfinancing of law libraries, inter alia those of the supreme courts, the mobilisation of private legal practitioners to make contributions to the financing of their local magistrates’ offices, the resignation of up to eight senior magistrates in a region in a single day, the radical reduction in budgets to regions and the associated levels of stress, depression and anxiety among officials, is giving rise to a crisis in the department.] Practical solutions to these problems are urgently needed. In order to improve the public’s confidence in the justice system, the following proposals are made. A rigorous spending review, including a value-for-money audit, needs to be undertaken; the maintenance and development of the infrastructure should be located in a criminal justice infrastructure development and maintenance agency with a mandate to seek public-private partnerships in the construction of facilities; specialised courts should be expanded for specific crimes, as in the case of the recently-established rape courts; a programme should be set up to co-ordinate victim-support functions in court; community services should be outsourced to NGOs which specialise in the rehabilitation of offenders; specialised investigation agencies such as the Scorpions should be accountable to Parliament in the first instance, and not to the hon the President; infrastructure should be constructed through build-operate-transfer concessions with the private sector; temporary courts should be set up to deal with less serious cases so that the courts are free to try awaiting-trial prisoners for more serious crimes; transportation of awaiting-trial prisoners should be outsourced to private security companies to reduce trial delays due to prisoners arriving late at courts; the Ministeries of Justice and Correctional Services should be abolished and their functions absorbed into the Department of Justice.

In conclusion, these proposals will assist in ensuring that prosecutors, magistrates and judges lead the way in improving the shattered confidence the public has in the criminal justice system. [Time expired.]

Prof L B G NDABANDABA: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, we welcome and commend the department’s initiatives to transform the criminal justice system in our country. It is common knowledge that South Africa today is enriched by having black judges. This was something not known during the dark days of apartheid. The department’s initiatives should give us, to use an Afrikaans expression, ``pitkos om oor na te dink’’ [food for thought].

I want to tell the hon the Minister that courts of traditional leaders have historically contributed decisively to the maintenance of stability and low levels of crime, and they continue to do so. These traditional structures are recognised in sections 211 and 212 of the Constitution. They need to be strengthened so that the South African criminal justice system is enriched and better able to serve our diverse population more effectively.

Could the hon the Minister outline his vision in respect of these important traditional institutions in the maintenance of justice in our country. As Camus, the French writer, stated, ``Those who will not study history may be forced to live through it again.’’ Whether we will learn anything from history or not, one thing that the history of criminal justice shows us starkly is how the role played by history can be important in our understanding of present crimes.

My hope is that the role played by traditional institutions and courts in the preservation of law and order should be encouraged. Is it possible, for example, for the Portfolio Committee on Justice to invite a person to address them on the role of traditional leaders in the preservation of law and order? These institutions are important in my view and should therefore be upgraded. The IFP accepts that, though South Africa cannot be transformed overnight, the traditional leaders can play a big role in the solving of crime, especially in the rural areas. Our crime prevention strategy cannot succeed if there is no community involvement in the fight against crime. We support the budget and wish the department success in its fight against crime.

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mnr die Voorsitter en agb Minister, met hierdie begrotingspos het ons inderdaad te doen met die hartklop van wat Suid-Afrika veronderstel is om te wees; ‘n konstitusionele demokrasie gebaseer op die oppergesag van die reg. In die kort tydsbestek wil ek agb lede se aandag fokus op die twee bene van hierdie begrotingspos, naamlik justisie en konstitusionele ontwikkeling. Onder justisie is daar twee sake wat ek wil aanroer, naamlik die onafhanklikheid van ons regbank en die effektiwiteit van ons howe. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Mr Chairman and hon Minister, in this Vote we are indeed dealing with the heartbeat of what South Africa is supposed to be - a constitutional democracy based on the supreme authority of the law. In the brief time at my disposal I want to focus hon members’ attention on the two branches of this Vote, namely justice and constitutional development. Under justice there are two matters that I want to touch on, namely the independence of our judiciary and the effectiveness of our courts.]

The Constitution as the supreme law of the country provides for the trias politica - the separation of the powers of the state, a cornerstone of democracy. Whereas the judicial authority is vested in the courts, the latter will only remain independent, impartial and subject only to the Constitution if the Government refrains from influencing the judicial process. The AEB is indeed worried that there are ominous signs on the horizon of Government interference in this process. I have to warn against the fact that the obsession of transforming the judiciary in a certain way may have devastating effects on the quality of judgment in South Africa.

For example, regarding the appointment of judges of the Supreme Court, I must emphasise the paramount importance of experience in the sphere of law. The appointment of juniors - people with merit, but without a proven record over time - will undermine the basic principle of the Constitution. There are other ominous signs of interference. The Boesak case serves as an example. We believe that by their very acts, some Ministers and party officials gave the impression of trying to influence the court, contrary to the requirement of the Constitution.

The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: And the Eugene Terre’Blanche case.

Mr C AUCAMP: Yes. The proposed tribunals … [Interjections.] We are not related. The proposed tribunal to monitor the conduct of judges is another example of reluctance by the ANC to respect this independence.

Much has already been said today about the unsatisfactory performance of the department. The alarmingly low figure of successful convictions in our courts only proves that inexperienced and underpaid state prosecutors are not able to compete with seasoned attorneys and advocates for the defence. The result is that a large number of criminals, arrested through great effort by an also understaffed police force, still freely roam the streets and plains of our country.

As a result, nothing has been realised of the promise in April ‘94 of a stable society. The utopian dream has become a nightmare in the sense that, since that time, nearly 1 000 farmers have been brutally murdered on their property. In addition, we were promised that the department would rid the criminal justice system of major bottlenecks. To date, none of these promises have been realised with, as a result, ever-increasing court rolls and overcrowded prisons.

It is time that the Minister, if he is listening, should go back to basics and concentrate on these core issues. The real transformation of the Department of Justice does not lie in the political or ideological sphere but in the basic principles of sound administration, effective service and competent personnel.

Die tweede been van hierdie debat is konstitusionele ontwikkeling. Die blote bestaan van ‘n portefeulje met so ‘n naam sê tog vir ons in duidelike taal die Grondwet kan nie staties wees nie; dit is nie in beton gegiet nie. Die AEB voorsien inderdaad dat daar nog heelwat konstitusionele ontwikkeling in Suid-Afrika moet plaasvind. Ons moet in gedagte hou dat hierdie Grondwet in sy wese ‘n onderhandelde skikking was tussen opponerende partye in ‘n bepaalde stadium in ons geskiedenis.

Vir ‘n land met ‘n homogene bevolkingsamestelling sou hierdie Grondwet voldoende wees. Dit is egter die standpunt van die AEB dat die huidige Grondwet nie die pluraliteit en die verskeidenheid van die Suid-Afrikaanse bevolking genoegsaam verdiskonteer nie. Dit is juis op hierdie terrein dat verdere konstitusionele ontwikkeling nog moet plaasvind. As gekyk word na grondwetlike oplossings in ander multikulturele lande waar die vertrekpunt nie bloot X aantal individue was nie, maar verskeie etniese, kulturele of religieuse gemeenskappe, toon die huidige Grondwet inderdaad reeds tekens van veroudering.

Terreine waaraan aandag gegee kan word, is die volgende. Hoewel die verskillende vlakke van die staatshuishouding, naamlik sentraal, provinsiaal en plaaslik in die Grondwet onderskei word, is die verhouding deurgaans dié van onderhorigheid en ondergeskiktheid aan die sentrale owerheid. Suid-Afrika se Grondwet vertoon in alle opsigte die beeld van ‘n unitêre staat van oordrewe sentralisme. In dié verband is daar ‘n merkwaardige ooreenkoms met die grondwet van Sowjet-Rusland, wat die toets van die tyd nie kon deurstaan nie:

The Soviet State is organised and functions on the principle of democratic centralism … the obligation of lower bodies to observe the decisions of higher ones.

In ons huidige Grondwet moet die beginsel van interne outonomie van gemeenskappe oor sake van hulle eie telkens terugstaan voor die sentralistiese eenheidsmodel. [Tussenwerpsels.] Ek sal voorbeelde noem. Voorbeelde hiervan is die bepaling dat die volle uitoefening van taalregte afhanklik gemaak word van doenlikheid, koste-effektiwiteit en voorkeure deur die gemeenskap; die feit dat onderwys in eie idioom en kulturele agtergrond de facto staatsubsidiëring ontneem word, en dan ook die feit dat die reg op moedertaalonderrig afhanklik gemaak word van redelike doenlikheid.

Verder staan die Suid-Afrikaanse Grondwet agter by ander omdat dit slegs gebaseer is op ‘n deklarasie van individuele regte. ‘n Akte van kulturele groepsregte, wat die sluitsteen van demokrasie in Suid-Afrika behoort te wees, ontbreek steeds. So ‘n akte sou kan voldoen aan regte wat noodsaaklik is vir vrede en stabiliteit in ‘n multikulturele samelewing.

Mag die Departement van Konstitusionele Ontwikkeling en die betrokke portefeuljekomitee van die Parlement hulle naam gestand doen, en met visie en progressie werk vir staatkundige ontwikkeling wat Suid-Afrika en al sy mense vir altyd op die wenpad sal plaas. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The second leg of this debate is constitutional development. The mere existence of a portfolio with such a name surely tells us clearly that the Constitution cannot be static; it is not cast in stone. The AEB in fact foresees that a great deal of constitutional development must still take place in South Africa. We must keep in mind that this Constitution is in essence a negotiated settlement between opposing parties at a specific stage in our history.

For a country with a homogenous population this Constitution would have been adequate. However, it is the standpoint of the AEB that the present Constitution does not adequately reflect the plurality and diversity of the South African population. It is precisely in this field that further constitutional development must still take place. When one looks at constitutional solutions in other multicultural countries where the point of departure was not simply X number of individuals, but various ethnic, cultural or religious communities, the present Constitution is indeed already showing signs of obsolescence. Spheres to which attention must be given are the following. Although the different levels of the state economy, namely central, provincial and local, are distinguished in the Constitution, the relationship is that of one subordination and subjection to the central authority. South Africa’s Constitution in every respect presents the image of a unitary state comprising exaggerated centralism. In this regard there is a remarkable resemblance to the constitution of Soviet Russia, which could not stand the test of time:

The Soviet State is organised and functions on the principle of democratic centralism … the obligation of lower bodies to observe the decisions of higher ones.

In our present Constitution the principle of internal autonomy of communities over their own affairs must time and again take a back seat to the centralised unitary model. [Interjections.] I shall give examples. Examples of this are: the provision that the full exercising of language rights depends on feasibility, cost-effectiveness and preferences of the community; the fact that education in one’s own idiom and cultural background is de facto being deprived of subsidisation by the state; and the fact that the right to mother-tongue education is being made dependent on reasonable feasibility.

The South African Constitution also takes a back seat to others because it is only based on a declaration of individual rights. A bill of cultural group rights, which should be the keystone of democracy in South Africa, is still lacking. Such a bill could comply with rights that are essential to peace and stability in a multicultural society.

May the Department of Constitutional Development and the relevant portfolio committee of Parliament be true to their name, and with vision and in a progressive manner work towards constitutional development that will place South Africa and all its people on the road to victory forever.]

Mr L T LANDERS: Mr Chairperson, when the Constitutional Court declared that the death penalty was unconstitutional in 1994 or 1995, it meant that the position of prisoners on death row had to be decided by way of an appropriate sentence and the amendment of relevant laws. In terms of the Constitutional Court ruling, Parliament had to pass a law which would determine the legal procedure and processes to be followed in the cases of all prisoners on death row, particularly those who had exhausted all legal appeals and procedures, and whose death penalty sentences had already been confirmed by the Appellate Division.

Accordingly, Parliament approved the Criminal Law Amendment Act 105 of

1. The provisions of this law were clearly spelt out during the debate on the Bill. Amongst other things, it provides that all death sentences should be set aside and substituted with lawful and appropriate punishments. It also provides the following steps. Every person who has been sentenced to death and has exhausted all avenues available to him or her shall have his or her case referred back to the court in which the death sentence was imposed, that the court shall consist of the judge who imposed the death sentence, failing which any other judge of that court should be designated, that after considering written and oral arguments, the court shall advise the President of the appropriate sentence, and finally, that the President shall set aside the sentence of death and substitute it with the sentence decided upon by the court.

When matters of this nature are reported on by the media, one expects responsible journalism and the presentation of factual information. I refer to the headlines of The Independent on Saturday, dated 27 May 2000, which reads: ``Mbeki to set killers free’’.

In my view, and I am sure in the view of the families of the victims of the murders and rapes, this headline is misleading, inciteful and irresponsible, given the process that is spelt out by the Criminal Law Amendment Act. What the headline does not say is that death row prisoners would be reprieved or have their death sentences set aside and that a panel of judges would determine the appropriate sentence in place of that death sentence. Having done that, the panel would advise President Mbeki, in this case, what that sentence was, and President Mbeki would then be obliged to implement it. In other words, our President acts as a rubber stamp for a change, and does not have any discretion in doing so.

I must also agree with Prof Rycroft of Natal University who, in a letter to The Independent on Saturday, wrote, and I quote:

The impression created by this article is that Mbeki personally is about to set free those previously sentenced to death.

The second issue which I thought should be raised in today’s debate revolves around the question of human rights which has already been touched on by other hon members. In Rome on 17 July 1998, 120 countries, including South Africa, voted to adopt a statute which would create an international criminal court. On this occasion, 21 countries abstained and seven states indicated their opposition to the creation of the international criminal court. Amongst the seven that abstained are the United States, China, India and Israel.

I want to focus on the role of the USA in this matter, because media reports of late have highlighted the fact that President Clinton, during his tour of the EU countries, attempted to drum up support for America’s position. The USA has always made it clear that it wants an international criminal court that is controlled or given its mandate by the United Nations Security Council. This would ensure that America could exercise its veto against any embarrassing prosecutions, and also ensure that the international criminal court would never work against the interests of the USA, thereby placing the USA above or outside international law.

Indeed, Jesse Helms, Chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, announced that the Rome treaty would be ``dead on arrival’’ in congress, if there was any prospect of the indictment of a single American soldier. The implications of this statement and the actions of the political leaders of the USA are that American soldiers or citizens can commit crimes against humanity with impunity. Significantly, countries such as Iraq, Iran, Libya and North Korea, none of which can be regarded as allies of the USA, and a number of other rogue states are unlikely to ever sign accession to the Rome treaty. This therefore places the USA and Jesse Helms in the same camp as those rogue states, which means that alleged perpetrators of the worst human rights violations could remain outside this court’s jurisdiction.

The amendments to the court’s procedures sought by the USA would also make it impossible for the court to indict alleged criminals from countries that are not signatories to the Rome treaty, unless those countries consent. This action by the USA must be condemned in the strongest possible terms. Of course, we are reminded that the USA has set the dangerous precedent of allowing their security forces to kidnap people from other countries in order that they face trial in America, regardless of where the crime may have occurred. Nowhere else in the democratic world is this allowed. Even here in South Africa during the apartheid years, a member of this honourable House, hon Ebrahim Ebrahim, was kidnapped in Swaziland in order that he face trial. South Africa’s courts to their credit shot down this practice. Can one imagine what would happen if every country embarked on such action? This would certainly be a recipe for anarchy. One’s own recollection of the concept of an international criminal court began with the Nuremberg trials and, currently, with the international criminal tribunal in Arusha, Tanzania.

The concept of the international criminal court is gaining momentum and achieving successes. Actions of countries such as the USA, considered by many to be the world’s most powerful, must not be allowed to put a break on this momentum. We look forward to the day when South Africa joins those nations which have ratified their own treaty. [Applause.]

The MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, I first want to thank all hon members for what I regard as a vibrant discussion of my department’s Vote. It is indeed important, I think, to clarify just one or two matters which members raised. However, before I do so, I think I should thank the hon Dr Delport for this statement: `` A state that does not guarantee security and justice for its people cannot survive.’’ I think he has lived long enough to realise that, indeed, that kind of state that did not provide security and justice for the majority of its people has long died. [Applause.]

The problem, I think, we all have is that a new culture has been introduced in the politics of this country by the ANC - the culture of openness. When we openly admit that there are problems and difficulties in the department, we are not then saying that these difficulties are insurmountable. We are saying that, yes, there are these difficulties and I took quite a lot of time this afternoon to outline what we are doing to grapple with these problems, not only as the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, but also as the cluster responsible for the management of the criminal justice system.

Again, we know that the DP has, I think, decided to promote the notion that the Mbeki Government is a failure. Therefore, they have to look for failures and find them even where none exist. [Interjections.] In the process, of course, the hon member transposes what certainly was applicable to the state which he served so avidly and with so much dedication in the past, with what is happening now.

Honest observers in the world will tell us that Mbeki is a success. [Applause.] However, I have also … [Interjections.] Yes, thank you. Now, the criminal element on the ground is also acknowledging that the tide is fast being turned against it.

It was none other than this Government that went into Alexandra and intervened decisively and got our children to go back to school. No apartheid Minister intervened in 1976 as young, unarmed children were being shot. They never intervened. Instead they came here to sing the praises of those murderers who were killing us in the townships. [Applause.]

The hon member further says that we are sitting on R270 million which we should be dishing out by way of reparations. I want the hon member to know that there is a fundamental distinction between interim and final reparations. The money in the kitty is meant solely for interim reparations, and, whether he likes it or not, the payment is determined by the numbers that are given to us by the TRC and not otherwise.

So we are not going to say: You are lucky because there are only 12 000 of you so far and you can, therefore, take the whole R300 million and divide it whichever way you want to. That would be total anarchy, total chaos; and we will not want to be party to that ourselves. [Interjections.]

The fact that we have paid only R30 million so far, does not necessarily mean that we are not willing to pay. We will pay as and when, indeed, recommendations are made, appropriately so, by the TRC. We do not, in other words, dream up figures or imagine that so-and-so might have been slapped around the ears and, therefore, they deserve money, and there is R300 million in the kitty. We do not operate that way.

I am astounded at the notion that I have the power to sign proclamations. I always thought that the hon member, as a long-established lawyer, would know what powers a Minister has and does not have, and would also know that there is no proclamation before a proclamation has been issued by the President, in any event.

An HON MEMBER: The President?

The MINISTER: By the President. That is what it says. I am reading it here. This is not my own statement. The statement says the Minister must merely sign. Dear sir, you are utterly wrong. The Minister does not have to merely sign.

Let me also say that the mere fact that people have reported matters to my department does not mean that, therefore, we shall hurriedly and with tongues hanging out, panting and sweating, issue proclamations. We do not operate that way. We must, first and foremost, be satisfied that there is, in each instance, a prima facie case, and if there is one, we must also determine whether or not there are not any other more effective, cost- effective and efficient mechanisms of addressing those problems. There is no one-man show against corruption in this country. The police are dealing with corruption. Other structures, including the Office of the National Director of Public Prosecutions and the Scorpions, are dealing with that.

I will just use one instance. One of the so-called 127 outstanding proclamations is a matter relating to Bhiki Minyuku. When we conducted this exercise that I have just outlined to the House, the department affected, namely the Department of Education, came back to me and said: ``No, but we have already dealt with this matter’’. And the matter must, indeed, eventually be dealt with by different structures, not necessarily by this one.

May I also say, with the time still remaining, that it is untrue that the Heath unit has not had any increase. Anybody who can read figures will note this. In the financial year 1999-2000, the money set aside or given to the Heath unit was R16 894 000. In the year 2000-01, the figure is R17 739 000. This is an obvious increase of 5%. This increase is not dictated by the whims and the wishes of a Minister. It is determined by the reality that this Government and this country faces. There is no money, so we cannot give more money than we have.

In any event, the figure is determined by the proclamations already given, and not by imaginary proclamations. Therefore, we cannot sit back and say that we imagine that there will be 1 000 proclamations and, therefore, we budget so much. This, after all, is not a line item. It is not a permanent feature of our structures. That is why there is no line item about it.

Having said so, I think I must also say that it is important for hon members, at all times, to bear in mind that there are so many good things that are being done by various structures of Government against corruption. The police are arresting hundreds, if not thousands, of members among them, in their own ranks, and they are being prosecuted for corruption.

Elsewhere, there are similar actions against them. Now hon members cannot, for God’s sake, say that they will have to take money from all those structures, the performance of which is well known, and give it to one unit. They cannot. In any event, the law, as given to us by this Parliament, will not allow us to do that. Members should remember that the Public Finance Management Act allows us to shift only up to 8% from existing projects and nothing more. The question is: Where will we shift money from and for what purpose? Again, I must say that there is this interesting notion that the starting point is giving information to the Heath Unit and then the Heath Unit merely comes to us to say, that we must give them proclamations. That is not how this works. The Heath Unit must be given a mandate by way of a proclamation by the head of state. Before that has happened, one cannot say that this is what the costs are going to be. We are not a bunch of sangomas throwing bones about what has to be investigated or not. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

              PRECEDENCE TO DISCUSSION ON TAXI VIOLENCE

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Chairperson, with leave, I move without notice:

That, notwithstanding the provisions of Rules 29, 110 and 115, a subject for discussion on taxi violence in the Western Cape takes precedence tomorrow.

Agreed to. APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 2 - Parliament:

The SPEAKER: Chairperson, I know that I am holding myself hostage here to calls of order. [Interjections.]

A year ago today, most of us were eagerly awaiting the results of South Africa’s second democratic election. Most of us who succeeded in entering this institution face the challenge of completing the transformation of Parliament and the law-making process.

Parliament has changed radically since 1994, not only in its composition, but also in its conception, functions and responsibilities. Until last year, Parliament’s budget was prepared by adding resources here and there to a design that was no longer appropriate for our new institution. We needed to rethink our approach and prepare a totally new budget that would meet the needs of the democratic participatory institution that is required by our Constitution.

Last year, the presiding officers discussed this need with the Ministry of Finance and we have to take this process further. It is clear, however, that the Minister of Finance now has a clearer understanding of the needs of a modern, democratic parliament and has committed himself to facilitating the process of determining an appropriate budget for Parliament by meeting with the presiding officers and arranging for them to make an input into the Cabinet’s Budget Committee before budget guidelines are determined.

It is expected, however, that Parliament will also re-examine its ways to ensure that we do not continue with practices simply because they have been done in a particular way before or because that is the way other parliaments do them. At the same time, we will need to accommodate our own needs, however desirable, within the overall requirement to eliminate poverty and provide for the basic needs of the majority of South Africans. The current Budget process is still not running as smoothly as it should. But, there is now greater participation by members, committee chairpersons and political parties.

The recognition in the executive of the needs of Parliament has been manifested in the current Vote where we have been given what we asked for. R22 million of this is by way of a capital injection.

I am sure members are aware that state-of-the-art laptop computers have been bought and are currently being distributed. [Applause.] Let me repeat, they are being distributed to members together with a set of rules governing the management thereof. [Interjections.] Printers are on order. The cabling project that will link all members and staff is well under way with the NCOP Wing, the Old Assembly Wing and Marks Building already cabled.

I want to thank Mr Manuel in his absence and we look forward to discussing our further needs with the members for next year. [Applause.] However, it is necessary to say that our problems will not be solved or our needs met simply by providing new resources.

As members are aware, four years ago, we negotiated a financing agreement for support from the European Union. We have now agreed on an extension until May 2001. This became necessary as both provincial legislatures and Parliament had not been able to use the resources provided. Part of the problem has been with the difficult and sometimes incomprehensible procedures required by Brussels. But the major problem has been our own failure to devise programmes and projects within the guidelines of the European Union. For example, funds available for training members of Parliament in constituency work, management of constituency offices and communication have not been used at all. In the period ending last month, 78% of the funds available for public education and participation were not used. However, in this last case, I understand that the Secretary is making plans which will show considerable improvement in the months ahead.

As we have done in the past, we will be tabling the remaining budget for the European Union support programme shortly. An amount of R21,9 million is available to us to be used before May 2001. I also intend to table a report on all other resources provided to this Parliament by donors. I hope that, this year, we can agree to take this out of committees and enable all members to join in the debate, so that all our resources are used for the benefit of this institution.

Since 1994 we have established an elaborate system of committees involving members in the organisation of Parliament. I believe the time has come to review the system and to streamline our procedures so that politicians deal with broad policy issues, while the Secretary provides and manages the support system that we require. Perhaps we need to examine and emulate other parliaments by setting up a small multiparty directing authority which would engage with management or division heads regularly and channel the concerns of members on an ongoing basis.

Parliament will be introducing two new Bills later this year to allow for better organisation and financial management. The powers and privileges committee will be considering the necessary amendments to the legislation and we will be reporting to the Assembly at the beginning of next term.

The Public Finance Management Act does not address all the needs of Parliament. Aspects of financial management are located in the Powers and Privileges of Parliament Act of 1963, which is still in force, and in the Exchequer Act of 1975 where this is still applicable. It is clear that the management of our financial affairs is fragmented and, to an extent, inadequate. In order to bring legal certainty, new legislation specific to Parliament is being drafted and will, of course, go through our own committees.

I should say however that Parliament has taken the lead in the public sector in the way that we already have an internal audit committee. Towards the end of last year, the presiding officers appointed Miss Zyda Rylands and Mr Derrick Msibi from the private sector, and the hon Don Gumede and hon Van Niekerk, as members of the committee. The internal auditing process has already identified a number of risk areas and has produced two reports on how they should be handled.

An area that has seen dramatic transformation in this Parliament has been interparliamentary and international relations. Often, visits to foreign parliaments or exchanges among MPs have been viewed as a perk or an opportunity to see the world. This is certainly not true of the democratic Parliament. That over-used word ``globalisation’’ does not simply refer to the impact of international developments on South Africa. It requires our public representatives to engage in the international arena in order to influence developments to suit this country’s needs.

A declaration that will be submitted by 134 presiding officers to the UN General Assembly in September calls for the greater involvement of parliaments in the work of the United Nations, thus adding a more democratic dimension to international decision-making and co-operation. This will give effect to the opening words of the UN Charter: We, the peoples of the United Nations …

An important aspect of the work of Parliament is to ratify international agreements. Between the six months to December 1999, 32 agreements were tabled in Parliament. How many did we debate? If Parliament is to be more than a rubber stamp, it is necessary for MPs to be aware of and to monitor the negotiations before they are completed and agreements are signed.

I am glad to say that we have now been able to include members of Parliament in the delegations to major United Nations conferences, such as the Beijing +5, currently meeting in New York, and the forthcoming summit on social development. The presiding officers will be participating in their first world conference that will precede the millennium General Assembly summit in September. All these conferences will be working on setting a global agenda for the millennium. I have suggested to the programme committee that, in August, the National Assembly meet to consider the report of these delegations and to allow all MPs to contribute to the new agenda.

As South Africans, we have a particular responsibility to be in the forefront of building unity in our region, our continent and among all developing countries, as the building blocks of the changes in the global environment that are necessary in the 21st century. The Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces and I have just returned from an OAU meeting where we discussed the implementation of the Sirte declaration by heads of state, stating their intention to establish an African Union and a Pan- African Parliament.

A framework treaty is being finalised which will draw the implementation of the African economic community into the process of strengthening the OAU. Members of national Parliaments will meet initially in a parliamentary forum somewhat similar to the SADC parliamentary forum that we have already established. The draft protocols will be tabled for discussion, so that we are involved and contribute to the process of unification of our continent. A particular challenge that we have faced this year has been to facilitate the full participation of members with disabilities in our own proceedings. It has required more than simply providing access to the Chamber and all the rooms in the precinct. Given the scarcity of resources for all members, our achievements are significant and an example to most other parliaments. We have provided Braille scanners, allowing the production and use of papers in Braille, and introduced interpretation for sign language. But much more needs to be done.

On the other hand, we must admit that we have fallen down in providing adequate facilities for the use of all our official languages. Many more members are addressing the House in a range of languages, but we have not been able to provide adequate interpretation facilities. Notwithstanding the availability of resources for training, the members’ support committee has not requested provision for language courses, nor taken up earlier proposals for establishing a language laboratory. Perhaps, in this second Parliament, this need can be addressed, if political parties wish to take that process forward. There are many other examples which I will not go into, on what remains to be done. What is important is that doing these things is our collective task - a task in which all members of Parliament need to be involved.

In conclusion, I want to thank the Secretary to Parliament, Mr Mfenyana; the general manager, Mr Lucas; the Secretary to the National Assembly and the Table staff, as well as the service officers and all departments that contribute to the debates we have here. [Applause.] I also want to genuinely thank the Chief Whips and the political parties for the co- operation they have established amongst themselves, which makes the work of both members and presiding officers much easier.

Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Chairperson, we have consistently, in the course of the past few years and in every debate on the Vote of Parliament, stated and restated our historic mission to transform this Parliament and, in turn, the lives of our people.

Today, we have an international reputation to find solutions to complex problems, and pride ourselves in our unique ability to avert crises through intelligible dialogue. We have ensured that Parliament receives and debates reports from committees on all their activities and ensured that Parliament scrutinises, monitors and increasingly oversees the work of Government.

We have proposed more labour-intensive constituency periods to listen to peoples’ concerns, reproaches, grievances, but also their gratitude and encouragement. Today, we celebrate the growth of our democracy from a fragile infancy to a virile adolescence.

A major milestone for this second democratic Parliament is the positive way in which we have transformed the questions system in a very short space of time. This reflects hard work on the part of the different parties, a commitment to change the archaic and outdated, and a commitment to embrace the new society.

We thank all parties that opted for positive change, in spite of the relative safety that the trenches of the past offered. Change is not always easy. There remains some of us who continue to throw their toys out of the cot, who want to be dragged out of those trenches, kicking and screaming, and who resist change. We trust they will come around to see the wisdom locked up in the simple phrase: Nothing is as constant as change. The trial run and the sporadic hitches afforded us an opportunity to assess and recommend improvements to the system for it to become an extension and a celebration of our democracy. We must applaud ourselves for our persistence and perseverance in seeking to perfect this new system.

It is evident that we have travelled a long and arduous road that demanded from us tireless commitment, exhaustive planning and crucial implementation. Our single most significant feat lies in the fact that we have progressed as far as we have, given the very real financial constraints that exist. Yet, we remain somewhere in the middle of our journey, where we are looking ahead without exactly knowing what our destination is, when we will get there, or what we will find when we get there.

We can no longer proceed along this path without sitting ourselves down under the shade of the Marula tree, like the age-old councils of the African elders, and ponder these critical matters of times to come. When we rise from this pensive pose, we will have clear and concise, yet demanding, instructions, maps and navigational apparatuses that will, instead of guessing, pinpoint the undetermined, unknown.

For now, we must insist that there is greater participation in the Budget process, especially the budget of Parliament, by political parties. It is crucial for parties to exercise closer scrutiny and more intense interrogation of Parliament’s budget, and even more crucial that the budget addresses the real needs of parties and members. This will allow Parliament to fulfil its own mandate of accelerating delivery, ensuring accountability, exercising oversight and serving constituencies.

No one is more acutely aware of the fact that Parliament is underresourced than you, Madam Speaker. By international comparison, our Parliament lags far behind that of most other countries where the adequate resourcing of Parliament is never compromised. It is the responsibility of Parliament to provide members with the requisite support to enable them to fulfil their institutional responsibilities optimally. But the current budget cannot even begin to address some of the more critical issues faced by Parliament, like adequate support staff, adequate, up-to-date technology and information technology, adequate research staff and facilities; adequate facilities for the development of members of Parliament, and adequate facilities for those members of Parliament with disabilities.

This is an untenable situation that deserves our rejection, because if Parliament is weakened, democracy is weakened. The speedier transformation of Parliament itself should be prioritised to reflect a democracy that has arisen out of unique historical conditions - a democracy based on the foundations of co-operation, consensus and national unity; a democracy in which Parliament is not a mere rubber stamp for the executive, but provides relevant checks and balances for unfettered power; a democracy that serves the needs of the poor majority, not just the privileged few.

So we, the watchdogs of our democracy, must ensure that we budget for the transformation of Parliament. The parliamentary symbols, the art, the internal arrangements, accessibility, especially for the disabled, and the out-of-date proceedings, must begin to reflect the very nature of our new society. It must begin to reflect the mother continent and our own Africanness.

Transformation in itself is not the destination but the journey we have embarked on consciously, deliberately and in a focused manner; and a journey that we are committed to complete, and to build on the milestones we have already achieved. We are proposing, in keeping with our tradition, that this Assembly calls an indaba where parties and members can discuss a mission and vision for Parliament - a gathering of the custodians of the wishes of over 40 million people; to set out a way of working, a set of guiding principles, clear objectives, plausible timeframes and exacting evaluation and monitoring mechanisms.

Recently the SADC parliaments came together in this fashion and emerged from these sessions not only richer from its deliberations but also much more guided and directed as to the way forward. At no other point in our collective history were we more poised to converge around the fire of collective knowledge to contemplate our path than we are right now.

This year, the year 2000, is an important benchmark and beacon in the history of Africans and the world. It does not only mark the end of the 20th century and the beginning of the 21st century. Nor does it solely serve as a historical beacon between the end of the second millennium and the beginning of the next. It is important, because what we do at this juncture will dictate the destiny of Africa and ultimately the world. It is the year in which we must all, in all that we do, at any given moment of time, in our sleep or waking hours, ensure the revival of Africa.

The President of our country, His Excellency President Thabo Mbeki, has tasked us to come up with the resolution of the problem of the colour line. We are charged with resolving the questions of poverty, illiteracy, unemployment and crime. We must pledge all our energies to finding a lasting cure for the HIV/Aids pandemic. We must produce the requisite number of scientists so that we can once more lead the world exploration into the abyss of future technology and information technology.

The same goes for communication, infrastructure, and information-sharing. We share the burden of ridding our continent of the unnecessary evils of civil war, hunger, disease and power-drunk tyrants. We are assigned to foster maximum unity and peace in the region and on the continent. We can do so by promoting and pursuing the idea of a Pan-African Parliament.

It is our duty to cultivate and nourish mutually beneficial economic and political relations with our neighbours, both in the region and as far north as Cairo and Casablanca. We have started to play the renaissance role which the rest of Africa and the world expected us to play, and we will continue to do so. This Parliament is willing and committed to play a positive role in building and promoting sustainable democracies in the region and continent.

Tomorrow a delegation of members of this Parliament will leave for Zimbabwe to serve as independent monitors in the elections there. Our leadership abilities in the region received due recognition when we were elected to chair the SADC Parliamentary Forum. We are setting the tone of debate in our own country to move away from xenophobia, racism and ethnic prejudice. Within the collectives of the OAU, the SADC, the NAM, the Commonwealth, the UN and Socialist International, we raise the concerns of the voiceless poor

• the Third World populations of Africa, Latin America and Asia.

If there is a single great statesman of world-renown who has taken the torch to lead the way in championing the cause of poor people around the world, it is our President, Thabo Mbeki. We have historical and moral obligation to emulate this through our own words and deeds, every minute of every day. This is what the world and history require from us.

In conclusion, the role of the presiding officers in setting the national agenda is laudable. The most crucial national debates are treated with the necessary importance, sincerity and sensitivity, because they are introduced in this House as Speaker’s debates not as party-political debates. It is an appropriate moment, at the time of the first Appropriation Vote of the second democratic Parliament, for us to congratulate our comrades Frene Ginwala and Baleka Mbete on their re- election as Speaker and Deputy Speaker of this Assembly. [Applause.]

Their leadership, guidance, dignity and sophistication are revered here and beyond the shores of Africa, by foreign nations in every nook and cranny of the world. We must commend, as we do, the Budget Subcommittee of the Rules Committee, under Comrade Pallo Jordan, for the hard work it has put in to the Budget process to ensure that parties and the institution benefit maximally from this process, and for the support it has given to the presiding officers. [Applause.]

We must laud, as we do, the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, Comrade Tony Yengeni, for his hands-on approach to the political management of Parliament. His leadership, guidance and ability to do hard work under extremely difficult and strenuous circumstances are exemplary and inspirational, both for the ANC caucus and for Parliament at large. [Applause.] We must thank, too, as we do, all the parties here for their participation in the Chief Whips’ Forum, and the positive and open-minded contributions they make to ensuring that Parliament operates smoothly and efficiently.

It is here where we foster and build consensus and co-operation. We must all thank, as we do, the EU for the significant support it has given, and continues to give, to all parties in this Parliament. We must also thank the UK Department for International Development for funding the Technical Support Team to the public service and administration portfolio committee since 1997. This significantly boosted the capacity and outputs of that committee. Negotiations are under way to extend this support programme to the committees such as Public Accounts and Finance as well, because of the interrelated nature of these committees.

We must recognise the support, research and political staff of the parties without whose tireless, and sometimes thankless work, none of us would be able to produce a reasonable standard of work. We must acknowledge, as we do, the major contributions of constituency office staff who remain a crucial link between the people on the ground, Parliament and the Government. We thank and commend all these role-players. It is because of the contributions of all of us, as a greater collective, that we can justly remain optimistic that in the words of our esteemed President: ``We are on course.’’

It is this commitment to accelerated delivery that wipes away the dark clouds of despair and inspires hope in the hearts of our people. They live in Mafikeng, Kokstad, Barrydale, Newcastle, Prieska, Matatiele, Mkhuhlu, Mount Ayliff and Thohoyandou. They live there every day, and do the things that people do in the normal course of their lives. Yet when Parliament sits, all their dreams, aspirations and hope turn to Parliament in Cape Town. Their gaze is fixed on us, their future pivoted on the successes or failures of this institution. We must do all we can to realise those dreams, aspirations and hope. In supporting this Vote on behalf of the ANC, I reiterate our commitment to justice, peace and equality for all our people.

Mr D H M GIBSON: Mr Chairperson, it is difficult to be hugely controversial in a Vote about which we had all agreed and for which everybody is going to vote. I will do my best in my few six minutes, as opposed to the hon Deputy Chief Whip with 16 minutes, to say a few interesting things. [Interjections.]

This debate gives us a chance to measure whether we have succeeded in deepening and strengthening parliamentary democracy. It is one of our most important tasks to nurture democracy and to advance a democratic culture in a country which has had a democratic Constitution for only six years. Parliament needs, always, to remember that it must set a democratic example to a country which previously experienced a profoundly undemocratic political system and parliament. If we falter in our commitment to democracy and to democratic values and practices, we fail our people, we fail our Constitution and we fail our oath of allegiance as members of Parliament. I must say that we showed up badly over the introduction of the new national symbols of our country. I cannot think of any other democratic country in the world which would introduce new national symbols, where they would simply appear in Parliament without any ceremony, without any discussion of the matter and without any approval from the representatives of the people. I think that was undemocratic practice, and I do not think it showed us up to good advantage.

Hon members will understand that when the DP complains about deficiencies and shortcomings, we are performing the task for which we were elected. There are sufficient praise singers on the other side. We do not have to join that chorus. The DP is not required or expected to chirp along and give hearty approval to things which are not right. So very often hon members might think that we are negative in this Chamber, but that is our job.

I would, however, be churlish in the extreme if I did not express my personal thanks for the kindness and thoughtfulness of the staff of Parliament when I had a personal misfortune recently of spending six weeks in plaster and on crutches with my broken ankle. Everyone from the sister in the first aid room to the people in glaskas, Mr Stadler and his staff, those patient people who have to lock and unlock the disabled entrance at Marks Building, and all our security people at all the entrances to Parliament, I found to be unfailingly kind, helpful and considerate. I very much appreciate the friendly and concerned treatment which I received from them all.

Some aspects of Parliament are not operating as they should - hon colleagues will mention those. I think it is time we were all networked. I cannot believe that in this day and age it is still necessary for people to take a piece of paper across the road to tell me about a meeting which is going to take place. It is wrong, especially when the meeting takes place this morning, I get in at 10:00 and the notice is delivered to my office at 10:25. It is wrong and it should not happen in this day and age. [Interjections.]

Another thing that is wrong is that this morning the mace - which is the symbol of parliamentary authority, and the authority of the Speaker and the presiding officers - was not here. My hon colleague, Mr Ellis, had to point it out and we were then told that the person who was responsible had not shown up for work today. That should not happen in a Parliament. It is that sort of thing which makes us very sad sometimes, because it shows us at a disadvantage when what we want to do is to be proud of what happens here, to work efficiently, to work effectively, and to set an example to South Africa.

I want to say to hon members that we certainly have not set an example to South Africa when it comes to the question of multilingualism. Members of this Parliament should be ashamed of the fact that we are not living up to the promise of our Constitution. Years have gone by and we still have not done what our Constitution promises the languages and the people of South Africa, and that is to use them. They are not used and this Parliament is not setting an example. [Interjections.]

The DP proposed at least two years ago that we should use four languages initially in Order Papers, agendas and notices, and that other languages should alternate. When we were told this would cost R5 million to introduce, the DP said: Cut out the lunch subsidies for parliamentary workers and MPs and that would pay for the introduction of multilingualism so that we can set an example to the people of South Africa. [Interjections.] My party does not regard the languages of South Africa and the different cultures, colours, traditions and religions as something that is a weakness. We regard it as a national treasure to be nurtured, and this Parliament should be setting the example. I hope that in the next year we are going to do that, ie we are going to pay some attention to what our Constitution promises.

I also want to thank all the Whips of Parliament for the way in which we co- operate: Mr Tony Yengeni, the Chief Whip, his deputy Geoff Doidge, Jannie Momberg of the ANC, with whom we interact often, the Chief Whips of all of the other parties and the Whips of my own party. It is because they all work and co-operate so well that this Parliament operates at all. I would like to refer also to Mr Mfenyana and the whole parliamentary staff, and to say that most of them do a good job; and those people we thank. There are some who do a poor job - they know who they are, and I hope they get fired this year. [Laughter.]

Finally, Madam Speaker, to you and the presiding officers, thank you for presiding with wit and a slight touch of acerbity sometimes, always with dignity, and for just being the very special Speaker that you are in this Parliament. We appreciate it, and I thank you for what you do for all of us. [Applause.]

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Mr Chairperson, I agree with about 40% of what Dougie has been saying here, in particular the language issue and the votes of appreciation which he has dished out, especially to Madam Speaker, but not to Johnny de Lange. [Laughter.]

I think we are all proud of the way our Parliament is functioning. In fact our Parliament functions excellently, and we can all be proud of that. In particular, the IFP wishes to say thank you to one person, and that is Mr Tony Yengeni, the Chief Whip, who has proved himself to be an exceptionally good Chief Whip: objective, fair and always available to fellow Whips, and this coming from somebody who has been under the whip of many of the old NP Chief Whips, who were horrible. [Applause.]

We also wish to thank the other Whips for the good co-operation and a warm team spirit which has especially developed in the Chief Whips’ Forum. The Chief Whips’ Forum is developing into a very effective parliamentary mechanism. Quick and effective decisions are taken at this forum, because the Chief Whips are all there, properly mandated by their various caucuses. I predict that the Chief Whips’ Forum is going to play an increasingly prominent and effective role in future in the proper managing of our Parliament.

As far as support for members is concerned, we feel that Parliament does not yet adequately cater for all the particular needs of members of Parliament, to empower them to effectively do their work as parliamentarians. Members have often requested additional facilities such as more air tickets, which have been turned down. Our members need more air tickets to travel between their constituencies and Parliament. This is something that needs urgent attention, otherwise members of Parliament simply cannot do their work properly.

We wish to thank Madam Speaker and the rest of her team for the computers which were handed to us recently. They are excellent computers, and this will help members of Parliament to do their work properly. Unfortunately, we had to wait many years for this matter to be finalised, and we sincerely hope that in future there will be no further similar delays. There are other areas that need urgent attention. One of them - and I am sure hon members will agree with me - is Hansard. The Chief Whips have looked at this matter, and I am convinced that something drastic should be done to revamp the Hansard section. In the past a member could ask for a copy of a speech and could get it within a few hours, a day or two. Now one has to wait for three to four weeks before one can get a copy of a speech. One also does not get the usual monthly books and bound copies: we have not seen them for years.

Mr M J ELLIS: Ask Madam Speaker for cars!

Mr Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: For what? Cars? [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, we also want cars, houses and aeroplanes! [Laughter.] We want lots of things.

Returning to Hansard, the impression that I got from the discussion the Chief Whips conducted on this issue, is that the problem lies with competency at the highest Hansard level. Members also need more telephone units to make telephone calls, otherwise they have to pay from their own pockets. In mentioning these problems, I do wish to point out that the position of a member of Parliament in the new South Africa has improved tremendously in comparison with the position we had in the old South African Parliament. Thanks in particular to our members’ support committee. I served for 17 years in the old South African Parliament and can state confidently that the needs of members were then largely ignored.

An HON MEMBER: How many doors did you break?

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: I broke only one door, and the next thing I will break is your jaw! [Laughter.] I am, therefore, very thankful for the many improvements that have been introduced by this Parliament. I look forward to the day when all members of Parliament are properly empowered, so that we can do our work. We wish the Speaker, the presiding officers, staff, members and Whips a very happy New Year. We look forward to all the needs of the MPs being properly catered for. [Applause.]

Mr C H F GREYLING: Mr Chairperson, as you can see, I have a difficulty with Mr Van der Merwe, that is why I am looking the way I do. [Interjections.]

On behalf of the New NP, I would like to participate in this debate on a positive note, as we will not be doing this Parliament and all the voters out there a favour if we only attempt to score political points during this Vote. On the other hand, we should not overlook specific shortcomings, and I shall briefly mention a few.

We appreciate the fact that the budget has been increased by R75 million, from R341 million to R460 million, especially the capital injection mainly for the replacement of the outdated computer equipment in Parliament, which is something very important. We accept also with great appreciation the provision of the excellent new computers for our members. We hope that we will receive the printers within the near future.

The provision for party support which is increased from R14,4 million to R21 million is also very welcome, because this will enable members to perform their duties more effectively as required by the Constitution. The increase of R2,6 million for the printing of Hansard is also welcome. However, at the Chief Whip’s workshop last week, we were concerned to learn of problems regarding the printing and provision of Hansard to members. We would like to request that management gives urgent attention to this big problem.

There are also other important matters which should receive attention. Firstly, the amount for constituency allowances has only been increased from R4 500 to R4 833 per member monthly. I believe that most, if not all, members will agree that this amount - which must be used for the renting of an office, staff salaries, telephones, fax, photocopying facilities and other essential expenses - is not nearly sufficient to do justice to the effective functioning of such a constituency office. We trust that the matter will receive attention in the next budget.

Wanneer ons praat van effektiwiteit moet ons ons afvra of die Parlement effektief funksioneer, en dan moet ons erken dat daar wel bepaalde leemtes in dié verband bestaan. Primêr gaan hierdie begrotingspos oor hoe die Parlement die fondse bestee wat deur die belastingbetalers van Suid-Afrika aan ons toevertrou word, en of ons dit wel deursigtig en effektief doen. As ons net kyk na die aantal dae waarop hierdie Raad werklik die afgelope jaar gesit het sedert die Eerste Sessie van die Tweede Parlement op 14 Junie verlede jaar begin het, dan het ons tot vandag, byna ‘n volle jaar later, slegs 64 sittingsdae gehad. Dit dui daarop dat daarna gekyk moet word of die Parlement nie weer in die eerste helfte van die jaar ‘n intensiewe en aaneenlopende sessie moet hê nie, en in die tweede helfte van die jaar slegs ‘n kort sessie sodat noodsaaklike wetgewing afgehandel kan word.

Dit móét mos net meer koste-effektief wees, en lede sal nie onnodig teen hoë koste en tydverkwistend net vir byvoorbeeld een week na kiesafdelings hoef te reis nie. Die wetgewende program sal baie beter beplan kan word en baie van die administratiewe probleme sal ook uitgeskakel kan word, soos die dikwels te kort kennisgewings van vergaderings, die oorvleueling van vergaderings, en sittings in hierdie Raad self wat nie altyd stiptelik begin nie. Die afgelope drie weke het die Raad slegs twee keer op die bestemde tyd begin sit.

Van ons kant wil ons weer vra dat die pos van Hoofsweep van die Parlement oorweeg word. So ‘n hoofsweep en die Leier van Regeringsaangeleenthede sal ten nouste kan saamwerk met die swepe om die program vlot te laat verloop en die Parlement effektief te laat funksioneer.

Ten slotte wil ek graag die Speaker, die Adjunkspeaker, die Voorsitter van Komitees en die Adjunkvoorsitter van Komitees bedank vir die wyse waarop hulle hul amp beklee en ook vir die wyse waarop hulle die nuwe vraestelsel op Woensdae hanteer. Ons wil ook graag van ons kant af die Hoofsweep van die Meerderheidsparty en die adjunkhoofsweep bedank vir die samewerking in die hoofswepe-forum. Van ons kant af sal ons saamwerk om die Parlement effektief te laat werk. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[When we talk about effectiveness, we should ask ourselves whether Parliament is functioning effectively, and then we have to admit that there are, indeed, specific shortcomings in this regard. This Vote primarily concerns the way in which Parliament spends the funds entrusted to us by the taxpayers of South Africa, and whether we are, in fact, doing this transparently and effectively.

If we just look at the number of days on which this House has actually sat in the past year, since the First Session of the Second Parliament commenced on 14 June last year, we will see that up to today, almost a full year later, we have had only 64 sitting days. This indicates that consideration should be given to whether Parliament should not once again have an intensive and continuous session in the first half of the year, and only a short session in the second half of the year so that vital legislation can be finalised.

This simply has to be more cost-effective, and members will not need to travel to their constituencies for only one week, for example, at great expense and a great waste of time. The legislative programme could be planned far better and many of the administrative problems would also be eliminated, such as notifications of meetings which frequently arrive at the last minute, the overlapping of meetings, and sittings in this House itself which do not always start punctually. In the past three weeks sittings in the House have only commenced at the appointed time twice.

For our part we want to ask once again that the position of Chief Whip of Parliament be considered. Such a Chief Whip and the Leader of Government Business would be able to work very closely with the Whips to ensure the smooth running of the programme and the effective functioning of Parliament.

In conclusion I would like to thank the Speaker, the Deputy Speaker, the Chairperson of Committees and the Deputy Chairperson of Committees for the way in which they perform their duties, as well as for the way in which they are handling the new system of questions on Wednesdays. For our part, we would also like to thank the Chief Whip of the Majority Party and the Deputy Chief Whip for the co-operation in the Chief Whips’ Forum. For our part, we will co-operate to allow Parliament to function effectively. [Time expired.]]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Mr Chairperson and colleagues, it is one year already that Parliament has been sitting and passing legislation, but there are still shortcomings experienced by MPs themselves. The Speaker herself alluded to this in her speech earlier.

The provision of resources to enable members to do their work is not up to scratch, and is not as equitable as it should be. Members of Parliament whose office are in buildings other than the main parliamentary complex are at the receiving end, while the majority party members have the pleasure of receiving documentation on Parliament early. They also have the added advantage of receiving intermittent reminders on the public address system about this, that or the other meeting that they have to attend.

The other parties receive their parliamentary documents quite late. Access to offices by the opposition parties is very cumbersome. More often than not members remain locked in the building, waiting for some security officer to come and open for them. Such practices inhibit members from working until late in their offices. Members who use the main building have unhindered access and exit to their offices 24 hours around the clock.

Parties on the fourth level in the Marks Building are without pigeon holes even as we speak, this after countless memoranda have been sent individually to the household section. Things being normal, items such as these do not need parties to requisition for over a year. Circumstances outlined above impact adversely on the affected parties. It is like trying to have a person on crutches run a race with an athlete of Ben Johnson’s fitness. The man on crutches is at a disadvantage right from the beginning.

We hope that the increase in the budget will, in the long term, benefit this institution, so that Hansard and copies thereof can be obtained quite soon and regularly. Some of us have copies of Hansard that are not in sequence. We hope that they will follow one another logically, and not be produced and presented to members in a haphazard manner. It is not all hope lost, however: the research department does exquisite work; they are prompt, reliable and provide high-quality work. The section deserves all the support that can be mustered.

The increased constituency allowance is a pointer to bigger and better things to come. [Time expired.]

Mrs P DE LILLE: Chairperson and hon Dr Buthelezi, since he is the elder person in the House today. [Interjections.] I just wanted to acknowledge him, since he is the elder person here today.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Mr Chairperson, I am admired by all beauties here. [Laughter.]

Mrs P DE LILLE: Madam Speaker, you referred to a multiparty committee that must meet to direct and work with the presiding officers. You are aware of the Chief Whips’ Forum under the able leadership of Comrades Tony Yengeni and Doidge. If it was not for that forum, we would all have come here today and lumped you with a lot of complaints, but we were able to sort out most of them there.

I want to support you on the language policy, which is long overdue. I think Parliament needs to work more closely with the Ministry of Mr Ben Ngubane, and also to develop and fall in line with the national language policy for this country. We need to have this language laboratory as soon as possible.

The role of committees must also be extended to assess and evaluate the impact of legislation on our country. Committees must also ensure that the mechanism prescribed in legislation is established, so that we play the role of also monitoring and ensuring that legislation is implemented.

Finally, regarding the issue of HIV/Aids, last year we put a big red ribbon around Parliament. That is to be commended, but I think we need to go beyond just wearing badges and ribbons. Parliament must lead the fight against this epidemic. Therefore, not wanting to be controversial today, I want to appeal to all my colleagues to go for an HIV/Aids test to lead the fight against HIV/Aids.

I thought that Madam Speaker was going to give us more information on how to improve the image of Parliament, because the image is still out there that we are sleeping, and if we cannot improve on that image, then Madam Speaker must give us a one-hour siesta after lunch to sleep in our offices, and not to sleep in Parliament.

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mnr die Voorsitter, dit is heel gepas dat ons juis vandag hierdie debat kan voer. Op enkele dae na is dit nou presies een jaar gelede dat ek en ‘n groot aantal nuwelinge die eerste keer in hierdie Parlement ingehuldig is. Ek wil hierdie toesprakie gebruik vir ‘n aantal persoonlike indrukke en opmerkings eerder as vir gewigtige oordele oor die begrotingsproses.

Toe ek en my vrou ‘n jaar gelede afgevlieg het Kaap toe, het ons omtrent gevoel soos die apostel Paulus toe hy geskryf het: ``Ek gaan nou, gebind deur die gees, na Jerusalem, en wat my daar sal oorkom, dit weet ek nie.’’ Wel, dit het met ons veel beter gegaan as met Paulus in Jerusalem. Ek sal oneerlik wees as ek nie meld nie dat die mate van openheid en welwillendheid wat ons van almal betrokke hier ontvang het vir ons ‘n groot verrassing was.

Ou hardebaard-politici mag wel kla oor dienslewering in die Parlement, maar persoonlik het ek van alle personeellede nog net die grootste mate van welwillendheid en goeie diens ervaar, selfs wanneer ek gereeld saans so teen 11:00 die manne in die Glaskas moet skakel om die Marksgebou te kom oopsluit, dit is nou sodat ek daar kan uitkom, nie ingaan nie.

Fasiliteite vir lede en partye was vir my ‘n aangename verrassing, miskien omdat ek in die gemeente redelik gewoond was aan ‘n soort van help-jouself- sisteem. Een voorstel wat ek wil doen, is dat die formule vir die beskikbaarstelling van finansiële steun aan partye sodanig aangepas word dat daar eers ‘n basiese bedrag per party toegeken word en die balans dan proporsioneel volgens getalle verdeel word.

Ek wil weer eens melding maak van die objektiewe en deurgaans onbevooroordeelde optrede van al vier die persone wat om die beurt hier in die Stoel waarneem. In die komitees het ek ook ‘n groot mate van openheid ervaar, telkens totdat een van die ANC-lede die voorstel doen: ``Let’s vote on the matter,’’ en dan is die slag natuurlik gelewer.

Oor opposisiepolitiek in hierdie Huis wil ek ook ‘n opmerking maak. Ek ervaar ‘n goeie gees van samewerking met en tussen al die kleiner partye in hierdie Raad, en ook baie mooi samewerking van die groter en ouer partye in die Raad, selfs wanneer daar verskille is. Ek moet egter noem dat die mate van wedywering wat daar tans tussen twee van die grootste opposisiepartye, die Nuwe NP en die DP, bestaan, dikwels effektiewe opposisiepolitiek grootliks aan bande lê. Dit is nie tot voordeel van hierdie instelling en van Suid-Afrika as geheel nie. [Tussenwerpsels.]

‘n Saak wat ook moet aandag kry, is die volgorde van spreekbeurte van partye, naamlik van groot na klein. Dit is goed en wel dat ons in die kwantiteit tyd gepenaliseer word, maar nie in die kwaliteit tyd nie. Dit bring mee dat die beste toesprake dikwels voor leë banke gehou word, iets waaraan ek darem gewoond was in die gemeente! [Tussenwerpsels.]

‘n Verdere opmerking aan die negatiewe kant - en ek wil hê agb lede moet my hier goed verstaan - het te doen met die gereelde oordrewe en onsimpatieke verwysings, veral deur lede van die ANC, na die atrocities of the past''. Kom ons toon groter begrip vir die kompleksiteit van ons verlede. Dit is nie vir 'n mens aangenaam om feitlik elke dag te hoor jou ouers en voorsate is maar die eintlike en enigstebad guys’’ van die verlede nie. Mag ek hier ook maar weer ietwat buite konteks vir Paulus aanhaal toe hy geskryf het: ``Ek vergeet wat agter is. Ek strek my uit na wat voor is.’’

‘n Laaste voorstel is dat die Steyn-kommissie die instelling oorweeg van ‘n spesiale bonus vir lede wat soos ek vandag vyf keer op een dag ‘n toespraak moet lewer! [Tussenwerpsels.] Mag die Here die werksaamhede van hierdie Parlement seën in die jare wat kom en mag groter wedersydse begrip hier vir mekaar groei en ook bevrugtend deursuur en uitkring na die res van Suid- Afrika. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Mr Chairperson, it is entirely appropriate that we are holding this particular debate today. Give or take a few days, it is now precisely a year ago that a large number of newcomers and I were first inducted into this Parliament. I would like to use this speech to give a number of personal impressions and remarks rather than to make weighty judgments on the budgeting process.

When my wife and I flew down to the Cape last year, we felt a great deal like the apostle Paul when he wrote: ``I am leaving now, bound by the spirit, to Jerusalem, and what will happen to me there, I do not know.’’ Well, we had a far better experience than Paul had in Jerusalem. I would be less than honest if I did not state that the degree of openness and goodwill which we received here from everyone, was a big surprise to us.

Experienced politicians may well complain about service delivery in Parliament, but personally I have as yet only experienced the greatest degree of goodwill and good service from all staff members, even when I regularly have to phone the people in the Glaskas at approximately 11:00 to come and unlock the Marks Building, that is so that I can get out, not go in.

Facilities for members and parties were a pleasant surprise to me, perhaps because in the congregation I was fairly accustomed to a sort of help- yourself system. One proposal I would like to make is that the formula for the release of financial support to parties should be adjusted so that a basic amount per party is first allocated and the balance is then proportionally divided according to numbers.

I once again want to mention the objective and consistently unbiased behaviour of all four of the people who alternately serve in the Chair. I have also experienced a great degree of openness in the committees, often until one of the ANC members makes the proposal: ``Let’s vote on the matter,’’ and then of course the battle is won.

I would like to make a remark about opposition politics in this House as well. I have experienced a good spirit of co-operation with and between all the smaller parties in this House, and also very good co-operation from the larger and older parties in the House, even when differences arise. However, I must mention that the degree of rivalry which currently exists between the two largest opposition parties, the New NP and the DP, often largely hampers effective opposition politics. This is not to the benefit of this institution and South Africa as a whole. [Interjections.]

A matter which must receive attention is the sequence of turns to speak of parties, namely from big to small. It is all very well that we be penalised with regard to the quantity of time, but not with regard to the quality of time. This results in the best speeches often being made to empty benches, something which I was at least accustomed to in the congregation! [Interjections.]

A further remark on the negative side - and I want hon members to understand me well here - has to do with the regularly exaggerated and unsympathetic references, particularly by members of the ANC, to the atrocities of the past. Let us display greater understanding of the complexity of our past. It is not pleasant for one to hear virtually every day that one’s parents and ancestors were the actual and only bad guys of the past. Allow me here once again, somewhat out of context, to quote Paul when he wrote: ``I forget what is over. I reach for what is before me.’’

My final proposal is that the Steyn Commission consider the introduction of a special bonus for members who, like me today, have to make five speeches in one day! [Interjections.] May the Lord bless the activities of this Parliament in the years ahead and may greater mutual understanding for one another grow here and also fruitfully penetrate and extend to the rest of South Africa.]

Dr Z P JORDAN: Chairman, Madam Speaker and hon members, I was asked to participate in this debate in my capacity as Chairperson of the subcommittee on the Parliament budget.

In terms of our Constitution, our Parliament plays a pivotal role in our system of government. If one looks at Chapter 4 of the Constitution, one will see that it accords the legislature equal weight to the other two pillars of our democracy, the executive and the judiciary. I suppose one could argue that, in a sense, the relative weight of the legislature is greater than that of the other two, since the executive is, of itself, constituted of members of the legislature.

Viewed from this perspective, the Parliament budget must, at least, reflect that Parliament is an equal partner of the executive and the judiciary in our democracy, and should, therefore, not be treated as if it was merely another department of Government. It should also reflect the importance of the core functions that Parliament performs as the national legislative and oversight body, created with the specific function of monitoring, checking and balancing the power of the other two pillars of our democracy.

This Vote is, consequently, about the transformation of Parliament and about the empowering of members of Parliament, but that, of course, costs money. Working through the submissions our subcommittee received, it became clear very early on that the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework guideline figures, which were provided by the Department of State Expenditure, had seriously underestimated the actual budgetary needs of Parliament.

Two points need to be underscored in this respect. The first is that at the end of the financial year 2000-2001, the EU funding, which has assisted this Parliament in the past, will come to an end and, unless a new programme can be negotiated, the activities that those funds financed will have to be funded from the Parliament budget. Second, it was the view expressed by many divisions which made submissions to the subcommittee that our Parliament is not, in fact, paying competitive salaries and is, consequently, unable to attract talent, which talent is better remunerated elsewhere and, worse still, when Parliament does manage to attract such talent, these people are very easily poached by other institutions that offer better salaries.

The Parliament budget should make adequate provision to enable every member of this Parliament to be as effective a public representative as possible. However, a number of new realities present themselves and we have to take account of them if we want to achieve that. At present, close to 33% of the members of this Parliament are women, some of them single mothers. We should expect that that number is going to increase. I would say that the budget for Parliament needs to reflect a greater sensitivity to the special needs of women. [Applause.]

A number of our MPs also have disabilities. That number increased after the June 1999 elections. There are now more than 10 members of Parliament with disabilities who have highly specialised needs. The parliamentary budget must reflect the growing representivity of Parliament to reflect the diversity of our population and must take account of the provisions which now need to be institutionalised to assist MPs with disabilities in the performance of their functions. [Applause.] Our approach to the parliamentary budget was informed by these caveats.

Parliament’s budget is an aspect of the overall strategy of democratic transformation that entails restructuring the key centres of power in our society so as to deepen democracy. Public hearings, for example, have become a regular feature of our parliamentary life but, thus far, only the well-resourced have been in a position to exploit this new accessibility. This budget will, hopefully, devise ways of extending access to Parliament to the poor and the underresourced.

The Medium-Term Expenditure Framework devised by the Department of State Expenditure remains our baseline. That being the case, we regard the budget for Parliament as a component of the Government’s thrust to maintain fiscal discipline while transforming the core institutions of our democracy. This budget itself, I believe, will encourage and incentivise the leadership of Parliament to think strategically about the objectives we wish to attain in our immediate and medium term.

I want to take this opportunity to thank Madam Speaker and the Deputy Speaker for the way they have conducted the sessions of this Parliament with dignity, with great humour and I think with a great deal of patience, considering the rowdiness that they are sometimes subjected to. I want to acknowledge also the role played by the Secretary to Parliament, Mr Sindiso Mfenyana, and his staff, without whom I think many of us would not be able to find their way about this Parliament. I want to acknowledge, also, the role played by the Whippery of all parties in assisting in drawing up the programme of Parliament and ensuring that we do work efficiently. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

House adjourned at 18:25. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                        TUESDAY, 30 MAY 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 30 May 2000 in terms of
     Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bill as a section 75
     Bill:


     (i)     General Intelligence Law Amendment Bill [B 36 - 2000]
          (National Assembly - sec 75). The Bill has not yet been
          referred to a committee.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:

 Reports of the South African Law Commission on the -
 (a)    Constitutional Jurisdiction of Magistrates' Courts, Project 111
     [RP 80-2000];

 (b)    Conflicts of Law, Project 90 [RP 81-2000];

 (c)    Sharing of Pension Benefits, Project 112 [RP 82-2000];

 (d)    Review of the Law of Insolvency, Project 63 (Volume 1) [RP 89-
     2000];

 (e)    Review of the Law of Insolvency, Project 63 (Volume 2) [RP 88-
     2000].

                       WEDNESDAY, 31 MAY 2000

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Recommendations of the Financial and Fiscal Commission on 2001-2004
 Medium-Term Expenditure Framework Cycle, submitted in terms of section
 9(1) of the Intergovernmental Fiscal Relations Act, 1997 (Act No 97 of
 1997).

                        THURSDAY, 1 JUNE 2000

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Report of the Auditor-General on Performance Audits completed at the
 South African Revenue Service during 1999 [RP 96-2000].

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration on SITA’s 2000-01 Business Plan, dated 26 May 2000:

 The Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, having
 considered the Business Plan of the State Information Technology Agency
 (SITA) for 2000-01, reports as follows:


 A.     Introduction


     At a meeting of the Committee on 12 April 2000, the Chairperson of
     the Board of SITA, Mr Sello Rasethaba, and the Acting Managing
     Director, Mr Sello Mokale, briefed the Committee on SITA's
     Business Plan for 2000-01. The briefing was given in compliance
     with a resolution of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and
     Administration of the previous Parliament, which was tabled on 21
     September 1998 and adopted by the National Assembly on 23
     September 1998.


 B.     Background: Report of Presidential Review Commission
     In March 1998 the Presidential Review Commission (PRC),
     established by Pres Mandela to investigate the Public Service,
     reported that in respect of information management, systems and
     technology (IMST), South Africa's current Public Service practice
     lagged behind the private sector, which itself was slipping behind
     developments elsewhere in the world.

     The Commission felt that the State should have a major role to
     play in promoting the information society, but that the Public
     Service had not used IMST in a systematic manner to improve
     service delivery, public participation, government transparency or
     accountability. The PRC stressed the need for greater integration
     and inter-operability of Public Service data banks, which would
     require the setting of basic standards first and the formulation
     of a more comprehensive set of standards later.

     The PRC argued that technology must be driven primarily by the
     business objectives of the State, and not the other way around.
     The PRC believed that "IT can significantly change the manner in
     which the Public Service conducts its business, and indeed should
     be used to radically re-engineer its processes, but this
     transformation must be shaped by the strategic and operational
     needs of the Public Service, particularly in relation to the
     provision of efficient, effective and equitable service delivery"
     (p 192 of PRC report). Important decisions regarding IMST should
     therefore not be delegated or outsourced, but taken by the senior
     political and managerial leadership of the State.

     The Commission made several recommendations relating to IMST,
     summarised as follows:


     1. A short-term procurement moratorium on all large (above R5
          million) IT systems and technology must be imposed until some
          basic standards are agreed upon to facilitate future data
          exchange and data operability.


     2. Basic standards, most immediately the standards required for
          exchange of information (the "unique identifier" and network
          standards), should be established.


     3. A more holistic business, information, systems and technology
          architecture, derived from the current IT Business
          Architecture and/or subsequent projects, must be developed.


     4. The above projects should be consolidated into a national
          information management strategy, information systems
          strategies and an IT strategy for the Public Service.


     5. The post of Chief Information Officer (CIO) should be created
          in the Office of the President, the incumbent of which would
          head a Policy Committee and a Technology Forum.


     6. The "lead agency" concept, whereby a particular State agency
          would be given primary responsibility to co-ordinate a whole-
          of-government IMST initiative in relation to a specific set of
          IT functions in conjunction with other participating
          departments, should be accepted and implemented. Personnel and
          resources would need to be shared on a programme and/or
          project basis, but ultimately the Minister and senior
          management responsible for the lead agency would be held
          accountable for performance.


     7. The current functional differentiation of the Public Service
          needs to be addressed on the basis of business process re-
          engineering, using the National Crime Prevention Strategy as a
          model.


     8. A systematic skills development plan needs to be designed and
          implemented to train new entrants to the information
          management and technology field, including a four-year
          internship programme to produce an accelerated but equivalent
          qualification to those offered at tertiary institutions.


     9. The government should give serious consideration to migrating
          completely to electronic communication within the next five
          years.
     10.     New procurement models should be used in the development,
          operation, maintenance and upgrading of information management
          systems and technology. "Alternative service delivery" models
          and the "request for solution" method should be explored to
          ensure that risks and rewards are appropriately shared between
          the public and private sectors.


          (Pp 226-228 of PRC report.)


 C.     SITA Bill and Committee's Report


     In August and September 1998, the Committee considered and
     reported on the State Information Technology Agency Bill [B 96 -
     98], which was introduced by the Minister for the Public Service
     and Administration, in line with the recommendation of the PRC
     (see B.6 above) regarding the establishment of a "lead agency" to
     consolidate and co-ordinate the State's IMST interests.

     The primary reasons for the creation of SITA were the government's
     difficulty in -
     1. recruiting, developing and retaining skilled IT personnel;


     2. managing IT procurement and ensuring that the government gets
          value for money;


     3. using IT to support transformation and service delivery;


     4. utilising effectively expensive IT resources; and


     5. integrating IT initiatives.


     In reporting to the National Assembly on the SITA Bill (ATCs of 21
     September 1998), the Committee expressed concern that the
     legislation was preceding a policy framework for IMST. A more
     orthodox progression would have been that the policy would inform
     any legislation that was required. The Committee, however,
     accepted that the establishment of SITA was a matter of urgency,
     and therefore agreed to postpone a review of policy.

     The other key recommendation of the Committee was "that the Board
     of Directors of SITA present SITA's business plan to the Standing
     Committee on Public Accounts once it has been finalised". The
     Standing Committee on Public Accounts conducted a review of the
     roles and responsibilities of the various IT role-players in
     government (see ATCs of 23 July 1998). The Committee itself
     followed up on its resolution regarding SITA's Business Plan.


 D.     Establishment of SITA


     The SITA Act was gazetted on 16 October 1998 and came into
     operation on 2 November 1998. SITA's role was to provide IT, IS
     and related services in a maintained information systems security
     environment to, or on behalf of, participating departments and
     organs of state (sec 6 of the SITA Act).

     To achieve this objective, SITA may -


     1. provide data processing services;


     2. provide IT and IM training;
     3. provide application software development and maintenance
          services;


     4. promote the effective utilisation of IT to enhance efficiency
          at all levels of the Public Service;


     5. provide technical, functional and business advice and support
          regarding IT;


     6. provide IT and IS management services;


     7. with regard to any of the above functions, act as procurement
          agency in respect of IT requirements, in accordance with State
          procurement policy; and


     8. perform any other function that the Minister may, from time to
          time, determine to give effect to the objective of the agency.


          (Sec 7 of the Act.)


     The Minister for the Public Service and Administration is the sole
     shareholder on behalf of the State (sec 17 and 18). Initial
     components to be incorporated, were the Central Computer Services
     (CCS), a chief directorate in the Department of State Expenditure,
     ISSAPS (the SAPS IT component) and Infoplan (a division of the
     parastatal Denel) (sec 3(4)).

     Participation by departments in SITA was to be phased in, as
     determined by Cabinet on recommendation of the Minister (sec
     3(6)). Participation is in terms of a business agreement between
     SITA and the department concerned, and such a business agreement
     must be supported by a service level agreement (sec 20).

     SITA (Pty) Ltd was established in terms of the Companies Act on 1
     April 1999. In November 1999, the Board of Directors was
     restructured in line with the tenets of good governance expounded
     in the King Report on corporate governance. The Board of Directors
     is reflected as follows:

     Non-executive directors
     Chairperson   Mr Sello Rasethaba
     DPSA nominee Mr Robinson Ramaite
     Department of Finance
     Nominee Vacant
     Department of
     Communications nominee Mr Andile Ngcaba
     Legal expert Ms Khomotso Moroka
     Finance expert Ms Lindiwe Mthimunye
     Organisational
     development expert Mr Gavin Pieterse

     Executive directors

     (Acting) MD & CEO Mr Sello Mokale
     COO Ms Makano Mojapelo
     CFO Vacant


 E.     Initial briefing by SITA on 8 September 1999


     In an initial briefing by SITA to the newly constituted Committee
     on 8 September 1999, Mr Sello Rasethaba, Chairperson of the Board
     of SITA, took issue with the requirement in terms of sec 16(9) of
     the SITA Act that the books and records of account must be audited
     by the Auditor-General. Mr Rasethaba argued that SITA itself could
     more effectively promote the empowerment of SMMFs. The Committee
     investigated the Auditor-General's procurement processes (with the
     co-operation of the Auditor-General and mindful of sec 181(3) of
     the Constitution) and expressed its approval of the affirmative
     procurement policies of the Auditor-General (ATCs, 12 October
     1999).


 F.     Briefing by SITA on 12 April 2000


     Mr Sello Mokale, Acting Managing Director of SITA, briefed the
     Committee on SITA's Statement of Strategic Direction and Business
     Plan. SITA's statement of intent is as follows:


       "Management is committed to demonstrate that the State
       Information Technology Agency (Pty) Ltd is:


       *     The vehicle for Government IT in effective service
          delivery to the citizens;
       *     Leveraging IT as a strategic resource for Government,
          fostering competitiveness and industry through best practice
          procurement processes; and
       *     Establishing South Africa as a global information and
          communications technology player".


     SITA's vision is -


       "to become a leading and respected public sector IT company in
       the world that:


       *     Provides relevant products and services to the Government
          cost-effectively;
       *     Is an employer of choice;
       *     Is an advanced user of information technology; and
       *     Delivers value for money to the stakeholder".


     SITA's mission is to continually -


     1. increase the speed of delivery of the products and services to
          SITA;


     2. improve the return on investment on government IT expenditure;


     3. improve the quality of the products and services of SITA;


     4. improve the security environment in which SITA operates;


     5. innovate with respect to its products and services; and


     6. support the socio-economic policies of the government.


     The "Business Plan to guide SITA Operations" uses each of the
     elements of the above mission statement as an individual goal
     statement. Goal 1, for example, is to increase the speed of
     delivery of SITA products and services, and outcomes are listed as
     follows:


     -  Reduced delivery times.
     -  Faster and guaranteed access to information required for
          decision-making.
     -  Improved business processes.
     -  Strategic partnerships.
     -  Interactive approach to IT services between all role-players
          involved in the upstream and downstream processes.


     A number of short-, medium- and long-term initiatives, with
     specified targets in each case, are listed in respect of each of
     the identified goals. For example, one of the initiatives listed
     under Goal 1 is the "improvement of the procurement process", and
     a target emanating from this is a "30 per cent reduction in the
     time from the definition of the tender specification to the
     publication of the tender".

     In addition to the six goals and various outputs attached to each,
     SITA has identified five "strategic projects":


     A: Integrate organs of state.
     B: Adopt best practices and standards.
     C: Consolidate and rationalise.
     D: Capacity-building through skills and knowledge development.
     E: Adopt common applications across the government.


     In terms of strategic project A, for example, it is projected that
     all IT functions of national and provincial governments will be
     incorporated into SITA by March 2003. A schedule for incorporation
     should be agreed upon with the DPSA by May 2000. The lessons
     learnt during the integration of the CCS, ISSAPS and Infoplan are
     currently used to establish the base that is required to effect a
     smoother integration of organs of state with less interruption.

     The Eastern Cape Provincial Government signed up with SITA on 14
     September 1999. Transfers currently under way include the
     following:

     *  DPSA (completed by April 2000).
     *  Department of Minerals and Energy (by May 2000).
     *  KwaZulu-Natal Provincial Government (by July 2000).


 G.     Key issues raised by SITA at briefing


     Mr Rasethaba concluded SITA's presentation by drawing the
     attention of the Committee to a number of factors that were
     regarded by SITA as substantial obstacles to the efficient and
     effective performance of its duties and exercise of its powers:


     1. IT procurement by government departments


          The first issue raised, was IT procurement by government
          departments. Uncoordinated IT procurement had already resulted
          in the co-existence of three non-compatible identification
          systems: The bar-coded ID, the smart card and the driver's
          licence. (Mr Rasethaba compared this state of affairs with the
          United States, where one number, the social security number,
          provided access to the full range of identity systems.)

          SITA's role was to ensure that duplication of this kind does
          not occur. However, while government departments remain free
          to conduct their own large system procurement, the problem of
          non-compatibility of systems will continue to escalate. Mr
          Rasethaba said he was aware that three different departments
          were intending to tender (separately) for a document
          management service.

          He asked the Committee to consider recommending a moratorium
          on procurement, as recommended by the PRC in 1998 (see B
          above). In practical terms, a moratorium could be effected by
          requiring that departments wishing to procure IT goods and
          services would have to obtain a certificate from the
          Department of Finance. With such a requirement in place, SITA
          could achieve an immediate saving of 20% on IT procurement.

          SITA is putting into place a procurement system that will be
          fair, equitable and effective. At the same time, it is
          necessary that the system be efficient in terms of costs and
          time needed to procure. Once the policy is in place, it will
          be submitted to Cabinet for approval. SITA will hopefully take
          over the procurement of IT in government after this process.


     2. Funding for capacity-building and promotion of representivity


          SITA's workforce is currently 70% to 80% white, a situation
          which had been inherited. Mr Rasethaba asked that its
          "operating profit" (funds not spent) of R64 million may be
          utilised for training. SITA's profile did not match the
          private sector profile. SITA would like to follow the example
          of the Scorpions and send certain employees on degree courses
          to address those shortcomings.


     3. Necessary component not transferred to SITA


          The SITA Act intended to transfer all IT-related components
          from the Department of State Expenditure to SITA. Yet only the
          CCS was transferred, and not the strategically important
          Centre for Applied Government Financial Management, a chief
          directorate in State Expenditure, which has responsibility for
          developing, implementing and maintaining an acceptable
          accounting and reporting system. Its directorates oversee the
          BAS/FMS financial management systems, the PERSAL salary system
          and the LOGIC provisioning system. Mr Rasethaba therefore
          requested this chief directorate's immediate transfer to SITA.


     4. PFMA scheduling and related request


          Mr Rasethaba said that SITA should have been listed as a
          Schedule 2 entity in terms of the Public Finance Management
          Act (PFMA), 1999, which came into operation on 1 April 2000.
          This would have enabled SITA to appoint its own auditors,
          provided it was done in agreement with the Auditor-General,
          had it not been for the specific provision in sec 16(9) of the
          SITA Act, which requires SITA to be audited by the Auditor-
          General. Therefore, Mr Rasethaba requests either that the Act
          be amended or that such change be effected by regulation, if
          it is deemed lawful by the State.


     5. SITA's debtors


          An amount of R339 million in outstanding debt was owed to
          SITA. The SAPS, Defence and certain provincial governments
          were named as culprits. Mr Rasethaba asked that the applicable
          rules be strengthened to ensure that government institutions
          settle all their obligations and pay all money owing within
          the prescribed or agreed periods. He said that under the
          current circumstances SITA's accounting officer was likely to
          be called by the Standing Committee on Public Accounts in
          terms of the PFMA to account for the uncollected debt.


 H.     Findings


     1. SITA has substantially complied with the resolution of the
          Committee regarding the tabling of its business plan. The
          business plan's framework of goals, strategic projects and
          alignment with government priorities could be more effectively
          integrated. The business plan is largely at strategic level,
          and it is hoped that the operational plans which are due to be
          presented to the SITA Board this month will outline specific
          activities in more concrete terms.


     2. The Committee remains concerned about the absence of a
          government IT policy. On 21 September 1998, it was recommended
          that such a policy be put in place, echoing an earlier
          resolution of the Public Accounts Committee. The PRC report
          and SITA's briefing make it clear that the absence of an IT
          policy/strategy may potentially undermine the government's
          efforts at achieving economy, efficiency and effectiveness in
          respect of governmental IT in a coherent and co-ordinated
          manner.


     3. The Committee is broadly in support of the requests and
          recommendations made by SITA, as outlined in paragraph G of
          this Report and summarised as follows:


          (1) The imposition of a moratorium on large (R5 million)
              government IT procurement/a centralised certification
              process for the approval of government IT procurement.


          (2) The return to SITA of its operating profit of R64 million
              for the purposes of investment in training.


          (3) The transfer of the Chief Directorate: Centre for Applied
              Government Financial Management from the Department of
              State Expenditure to SITA.


          (4) The rescheduling of SITA as a schedule 2 entity in terms
              of the PFMA.


     4. SITA did not provide sufficient reasons for the proposed change
          in the auditing arrangements, which would necessitate an
          amendment to the Act or a regulation. Nonetheless, it would
          appear logical that, if SITA were to be rescheduled as a
          schedule 2 entity, it should conform to the auditing
          arrangements applicable to such entities. A recommendation to
          that effect from the Committee would be dependent on the
          Auditor-General supporting such a course of action.


 J.     Recommendations


     The Committee therefore recommends as follows:


     1. That SITA present its business plan to the Committee on an
          annual basis at the commencement of the financial year.


     2. That the DPSA table a draft IT policy/strategy for the Public
          Service by the end of October 2000.


     3. That the Auditor-General offer his expert opinion to the
          Committee regarding the proposed change in the auditing
          arrangements for SITA, (as outlined in H.4 above), citing any
          factors he may deem relevant, by 30 June 2000.


     4. That the Directors-General of Finance, of State Expenditure and
          of Public Service and Administration jointly submit the
          following in writing to the Committee by 31 July 2000:


          (1) Their considered opinion regarding the requests and
              recommendations of SITA (summarised in H.3 above).


          (2) In respect of each request/recommendation -


              (a)  details regarding any objections they may have to
                   the expeditious implementation of those
                   requests/recommendations; and


              (b)  a plan with timeframes for the implementation of
                   requests/recommendations in those instances where
                   there are no substantial objections.


 Report to be considered.

                         MONDAY, 5 JUNE 2000 ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly:

Papers:

1. The Speaker:

 The Minister in The Presidency on 30 May 2000 submitted a letter,
 requesting Parliament to advise the President on the appointment of
 Commissioners to serve on the National Youth Commission as envisaged in
 section 4 of the National Youth Commission Act, 1996 (Act No 19 of
 1996).

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration on Performance Agreements and White Paper on Public Service Training and Education, dated 19 May 2000:

 The Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration, having
 considered the implementation of performance agreements for heads of
 department and senior managers, as well as the White Paper on Public
 Service Training and Education (White Paper), reports as follows:


 A.     Introduction


     The First Parliament, 1994-1999, was dedicated to the
     consideration and passage of more than 500 laws and the scrutiny
     of more than 100 new policy papers. In this Second Parliament,
     1999-2004, greater emphasis must therefore be placed on ensuring
     that the new laws and policies are successfully implemented by
     government departments.

     Sec 55(2)(b)(i) of the Constitution requires that the National
     Assembly provide mechanisms to maintain oversight of the exercise
     of national executive authority, including the implementation of
     legislation. Rule 201(1)(b)(i) of the Rules of the National
     Assembly requires that portfolio committees carry out this task on
     behalf of the Assembly.

     The Committee has initially identified two key areas in which to
     commence its oversight activities in respect of the implementation
     of legislation and policy: Firstly, the implementation of
     performance management systems for senior management in the Public
     Service and, secondly, the implementation of the White Paper.

     The Committee requested a report from the Department of Public
     Service and Administration (the Department) on each of these
     areas, and the Director-General, Mr Robinson Ramaite, presented
     these reports at a meeting of the Committee on 1 March. Additional
     information on certain aspects of the Committee's two focal areas
     was also given by the Director-General: Office of the Public
     Service Commission, Mr Mpume Sikhosana, at a briefing on 3 March,
     in response to questions from members.


 B.     Performance management for senior managers


     1. Relevant policy provisions
          The new Public Service Management Framework is made up of the
          Public Service Act, 1994, the Public Service Regulations,
          1999, and the Collective Agreements of the Public Service Co-
          ordinating Bargaining Council (PSCBC). One of the key policy
          goals informing the new framework, which commenced in July
          1999, was to replace a hierarchical, highly centralised and
          rule-bound culture in the Public Service with one that permits
          maximum departmental autonomy, while strengthening
          accountability in respect of performance and delivery.

          In order to steer departments at national and provincial level
          towards greater autonomy, while strengthening accountability,
          the regulations stipulate that all executing authorities
          determine a system for performance management and development
          for employees in their departments by 1 January 2001.

          However, the establishment of a performance management system
          for each and every employee in the Public Service will take
          some time to implement fully. The immediate focus of the new
          regulations is therefore that performance management must
          become the basis of the relationship between executing
          authorities and their heads of department, and in turn between
          heads of department and their senior management staff.

          The Act, as amended, accordingly includes a new dispensation
          for all heads of department, including, in terms of an
          extended definition of "head of department", heads of
          department at provincial level. Sec 12 of the Act requires
          that all heads of department be employed on the basis of fixed-
          term contracts. The terms of such contracts may be five years
          or a lesser period, and may be extended.

          In terms of sec 3B of the Act, the power to appoint heads of
          department is vested in the President in respect of national
          departments and in Premiers in respect of provincial
          departments, but these powers, including the power to enter
          into a performance-linked agreement with the head of
          department, are exercised in terms of delegations by the
          Ministers or MECs themselves. In order to establish a strong
          incentive for senior managers (from director upwards) to
          follow suit and enter into a performance agreement with their
          heads of department (or immediate superiors), an agreement was
          reached in the PSCBC, which made the award of the annual
          increase for 1998-99 conditional upon the conclusion of such a
          contract (Resolution No. 13 of 1998).

          The Minister is responsible for issuing guidelines on
          performance agreements on an annual basis. The guidelines
          include stipulations regarding the minimum and maximum
          salaries at each level, the percentage increase to be awarded
          and the maximum percentage cash bonus.


     2. Report-back by Director-General on progress with implementation


          The Department is currently undertaking a comprehensive survey
          of the conditions of service and employment practices of
          senior managers (including heads of department) and of how to
          create stronger incentives for improved performance within the
          existing framework.

          An initial report on the investigation into senior managers
          was to be completed by the end of April 2000, and the
          Department would at that stage have been in a better position
          to report and comment on the extent to which performance
          agreements are in place throughout the Public Service.

          In the interim, it may be said that performance agreements are
          now the basis for the awarding of bonuses and merit awards for
          all heads of department and most senior managers. In the
          medium term, the Department seeks to see a shift towards
          individual contracts for senior managers, in addition to heads
          of department who are already on fixed-term contracts. It is
          envisaged that their conditions of service will remain subject
          to the PSCBC in terms of benefits, but not in terms of
          salaries, which will be linked to performance criteria.

          Experience has shown that the critical performance agreement
          between an executing authority and a head of department is
          inoperable without key delegations from the Minister or MEC to
          that head of department. A problem has arisen in the sense
          that certain executing authorities do not delegate, but
          nonetheless expect heads of department to perform.

          The Department is preparing a memorandum to Cabinet,
          recommending that the President in the national sphere, and
          Premiers in the provincial sphere, issue instructions to
          Ministers/MECs to delegate the necessary powers. The aim in
          the medium- to long-term is to entrench the linkage between
          these delegations and the performance agreements.

          All performance agreements between executing authorities and
          heads of department are registered and kept by the Department.
          Most agreements scrutinised by the Department have been too
          broad, and it was therefore difficult to evaluate whether
          performance criteria were being met. The Department receives
          no feedback on evaluation, and can currently only assess their
          effectiveness in terms of the bonuses and awards granted to
          heads of department.

          In addition, it is apparent that not all executing authorities
          are evaluating their heads of department on a regular basis.
          It must be said that some Ministers and MECs make a point of
          sitting down with their heads of department every three months
          to conduct a performance evaluation. The Department has
          therefore identified the need for a support structure to be
          established for the evaluation of heads of department.

          The Department accordingly requested the Public Service
          Commission to assist, and the Public Service Commission has
          indicated that it would develop a methodology for evaluating
          heads of department, based on comparative research, and on an
          ongoing basis render advice to executing authorities on the
          evaluation of heads of department. The Department will also be
          developing competency profiles for heads of department and
          disseminating good practices.


 C.     White Paper


     1. 1998 investigation by Committee


          In 1997, the Committee approved the draft White Paper, and the
          following year it conducted an assessment of the
          implementation of the White Paper as an aspect of a broader
          enquiry into training in the Public Service.

          Key findings from that Committee Report (ATCs of 17 December
          1998) include the following:


          (1) Instruments aimed at facilitating improved strategic
              planning and budgeting for public service training and
              education, such as the Capacity Development Standard
              proposed by the White Paper, were not yet in place.


          (2) Most departments in the Public Service were already
              setting aside 1% of their wage bills for training, as was
              proposed in the Skills Development Bill (now Act No. 97
              of 1998).


          (3) There was insufficient monitoring and evaluation of
              departmental training programmes. The only instrument
              available at the time, the Department's Annual Report on
              Training, reflected incomplete and inconsistently
              presented (non-comparable) information from one year to
              the next.


          (4) The role of the South African Management Development
              Institute (SAMDI) needed to be reviewed and redesigned
              (the Director-General of SAMDI subsequently briefed the
              Committee on the "turnaround strategy" for the institute
              in February 2000. The Committee intends reporting on this
              in its report on the Budget Vote for 2000-01).


          (5) Initial steps towards the establishment of a Public
              Service Training and Education Authority (PSETA), along
              the lines proposed by the White Paper and proposed in
              terms of the Skills Development Bill, had been taken.


     2. Relevant policy provisions


          Skills development in both the public and private sectors is
          regulated by the Minister of Labour, who is responsible for
          determining policy in this area.

          The South African Qualifications Authority Act (SAQA Act),
          which came into operation in 1995, addresses the key issues of
          quality and access. The Skills Development Act and the Skills
          Development Levies Act focus on investment and prioritisation
          for economic growth and development. The SAQA Act and the
          Skills Development Act are regarded as "mutually
          interdependent and fully compatible" (Department of Labour
          homepage).


          On 20 March 2000, the Minister of Labour formally established
          25 Sector Education and Training Authorities (SETAs), as
          required in terms of the Skills Development Act. These SETAs
          are made up of representatives of business and labour in every
          sector of the economy (and in some sectors government
          representatives). They will be tasked with designing and
          implementing skills development strategies to meet skills
          needs in their respective sectors. In terms of the White
          Paper, the Department must establish a SETA for the public
          service.

          In terms of the Skills Development Levies Act, which came into
          effect on 1 April 2000, employers will have to pay a skills
          levy of 0,5% of their payroll. The levy increases from 1 April
          2001 to 1% of the payroll. The SETAs are to play a major role
          in the disbursement of these funds to employers as grants.
     3. Report-back by Director-General on progress with implementation
          The role of the Department in terms of education, training and
          development is to develop policy and strategy. It is not
          responsible for training - each department has its own budget
          for training and carries out its own training programme.
          SAMDI, which is under policy control of the Department, is a
          training provider that focuses on management development.

          The establishment of a Public Service Training and Education
          Authority has run into problems in terms of the envisaged
          scope of coverage. The Department of Labour requires that
          authorities be established for each "economic sector", yet the
          Public Service is not homogeneous and consists of more than
          one economic sector. Only the regulatory departments (the
          Department, Finance, State Expenditure, and Labour) do not
          fall into a predetermined economic sector, and current
          legislation does not provide for dual membership. The
          Department hopes to finalise the steps required for the
          establishment of the PSETA very soon.

          In addition, there are funding problems in terms of the levy
          required by the skills development legislation. Departments
          cannot in fact contribute to it, although the requisite
          percentage of the wage bill has been isolated by departments.
          These obstacles will have to be negotiated in consultation
          with the Department of Labour.

          In 1998, the PSCBC committed R10 million to sectors to
          finalise skills development plans. Some sectors have made
          progress in this regard, such as health and education, which
          have developed human resource development strategies, but an
          integrated approach has not been adopted on human resource
          development. The sectoral plans must be finalised.

          The Department will be registering with SAQA as a service
          provider. Competencies for managers must then be prescribed in
          co-operation with SAQA. Targeted programmes for senior
          managers must result. Lower employees must, however, not be
          neglected, and a renewed effort must be made to ensure that
          departments give attention to their upliftment and
          advancement.

          In addition, skills in respect of which there are severe
          shortages (such as IT, project management and training on the
          Public Finance Management Act) must be fast-tracked. The
          Department has commenced a process, firstly, to identify
          scarce skills and, secondly, to develop a strategy to build
          capacity of the Public Service in these areas.

          The Department will continue supporting the process of SAMDI's
          restructuring, and will be holding talks on the training fund
          for the Public Service, provided for in sec 4 of the Public
          Service Act, and on SAMDI's readiness for and the
          appropriateness of commercialisation. SAMDI has also been
          requested by the President to give attention to the
          development needs of Directors-General.

          An important future focal area is the monitoring and
          evaluation of training taking place in the Public Service.
          Initially there is a need to identify the real status of
          training and development by carrying out a study to identify
          the baseline in each department.


 D.     Findings


     1. Performance agreements


          (1) There is a need to review the content of performance
              agreements between executing authorities and heads of
              department to ensure that they are giving effect to the
              following:


              (a)  Implementation of government policy priorities.


              (b)  Co-ordinated priorities of Cabinet and Exco
                   clusters.
              (c)  Linkages between national departments and
                   corresponding provincial departments.


              (d)  Priorities identified by the Minister/MEC for the
                   department itself.


          (2) Even more urgent is the need to develop a mechanism to
              facilitate the regular and systematic evaluation of heads
              of department by (or on behalf of) executing authorities.
              The Public Service Commission has undertaken to research
              and design a mechanism for the evaluation of heads of
              department and to complete a report on the methodology
              for evaluating heads of department. It has also
              undertaken to provide advice to executing authorities on
              an ongoing basis.


     2. Implementation of White Paper


          (1) The Department is not responsible for the provision of
              training, but is responsible for the development of a
              coherent and integrated HRD strategy, which by its own
              admission is not in place at this stage. The finalisation
              of the sectoral skills development plans must be a
              priority.


          (2) The Department has a critical responsibility in terms of
              the Public Service Education and Training Authoriy, SETAs
              and the funding issues, which it has not yet discharged.
              The obstacles that remain in terms of the requirements of
              the Skills Development Act and Skills Development Levies
              Act must be removed as a matter of urgency, in
              consultation with the Department of Labour.


          (3) The positioning and role of SAMDI has been fluid for
              almost two years since its descheduling in June 1998. A
              review of the policy and a full consultation with the
              relevant stakeholders should form core parts of a process
              towards the resolution and finalisation of SAMDI's
              future. The Financing Agreement between the European
              Community and the RSA concerning the Public Service
              Management Development Programme has been referred to the
              Committee (ATCs of 13 April 2000), and consideration of
              this Agreement presents a useful opportunity for further
              deliberations on the role and positioning of SAMDI, since
              SAMDI is a key beneficiary of the Agreement.


 E.Recommendations


     1. Performance agreements


          The Committee recommends as follows:


          (1) That the Department report back to the Committee on its
              "initial report" regarding its investigation into senior
              management, as indicated on the Committee's programme.


          (2) That the above-mentioned report-back include a report on
              compliance levels and a review (assessment, commentary
              and recommendations) of the content of the performance
              agreements registered with the Department in terms of the
              criteria listed in paragraph D.1.(1) above.


          (3) That the Public Service Commission present its report on a
              methodology for the evaluation of heads of department to
              the Committee, as indicated on the Committee's programme.


          (4) That the Department and the Public Service Commission
              submit to the Committee in writing an outline of
              institutions' respective roles and responsibilities in
              respect of performance of heads of department and related
              matters, as indicated on the Committee's programme.


     2. White Paper


          The Committee recommends as follows:


          (1) That the Department report back to the Committee on
              progress made towards the successful implementation of
              the White Paper, as indicated on the Committee's
              programme, focussing on the following:


              (a)  The implementation of the Skills Development Act and
                   the Skills Development Levies Act, in respect of its
                   own duties in relation to the Public Service as a
                   whole.


              (b)  The development of a more coherent human resources
                   development strategy for the Public Service (based on
                   such considerations as a review of the White Paper
                   proposals, the sectoral plans, the need to fast-track
                   certain skills and the need to provide for the
                   advancement of the lowest level workers in the Public
                   Service).


          (2) That the Department and the Public Service Commission
              submit to the Committee in writing an outline of
              institutions' respective roles and responsibilities in
              respect of the monitoring and evaluation of the training
              provided to public servants, as indicated on the
              Committee's programme.


 Report to be considered.

                        TUESDAY, 6 JUNE 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 The following changes have been made to the membership of Committees,
 viz:

1. Transport:

 Appointed: Farrow, S B; Pillay, S; Semple, J A (Alt); Seremane, W J
 (Alt).
 Discharged: Ntuli, R S; Swart, P S.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry:

 (1)    Report and Financial Statements of the Investment South Africa
     for 1998-99.

 (2)    Report and Financial Statements of the National Gambling Board
     for 1998-99, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
     Financial Statements for 1998-99.

1. The Minister of Health:

 (1)    Government Notice No 341 published in the Government Gazette No
     21042 dated 7 April 2000, Correction notice regarding Government
     Notice No 149 of 11 February 2000 made in terms of Pharmacy
     Amendment Act, 2000 (Act No 1 of 2000).

 (2)    Government Notice No R.397 published in the Government Gazette
     No 21100 dated 14 April 2000, Amendment of regulations, changing
     deadline for comment as published in the Government Notice R.137
     of 18 February 2000, regarding the performance of community
     service by persons registering in terms of the Medical, Dental and
     Supplementary Health Service Professions Act, 1974 (Act No 56 of
     1974).

 (3)    Government Notice No R.427 published in the Government Gazette
     No 21136 dated 5 May 2000, Amendment of regulations governing
     Microbiological Standards for mineral water made in terms of
     Foodstuff, Cosmetics and Disinfectants Act, 1972 (Act No 54 of
     1972).

 (4)    Government Notice No R.428 published in the Government Gazette
     No 21136 dated 5 May 2000, Amendment of regulations governing
     Microbiological Standards for edible ices and egg products made in
     terms of Foodstuff, Cosmetics and Disinfectants Act, 1972 (Act No
     54 of 1972).

 (5)    Government Notice No R.450 published in the Government Gazette
     No 21144 dated 5 May 2000, Regulations regarding the performance
     of community service by pharmacists made in terms of the Pharmacy
     Act, 1974 (Act No 53 of 1974).

 (6)    Government Notice No R.498 published in the Government Gazette
     No 21178 dated 19 May 2000, Amendment of regulations regarding the
     performance of community service by persons registering in terms
     of the Medical, Dental and Supplementary Health Service
     Professions Act, 1974 (Act No 56 of 1974).

 (7)    Government Notice No R.497 published in the Government Gazette
     No 21175 dated 19 May 2000, Date of commencement of community
     service by dentists made in terms of the Medical, Dental and
     Supplementary Health Service Professions Act, 1974 (Act No 56 of
     1974).

 (8)    Government Notice No R.499 published in the Government Gazette
     No 21178 dated 19 May 2000, List of approved health facilities for
     the purpose of performing community service by dentists in the
     year 2000-2001 made in terms of the Medical, Dental and
     Supplementary Health Service Professions Act, 1974 (Act No 56 of
     1974).

 (9)    Government Notice No R.547 published in the Government Gazette
     No 21237 dated 29 May 2000, Amendment to the list of approved
     health facilities for the purpose of performing community service
     by dentists in the year 2000-2001 made in terms of the Medical,
     Dental and Supplementary Health Service Professions Act, 1974 (Act
     No 56 of 1974).

National Assembly:

Bills:

1. The Minister of Public Works:

 (1)    Wetsontwerp op die Landskapsargitektuurprofessie [W 18 - 2000]


     The Landscape Architectural Profession Bill [B 18 - 2000]
     (National Assembly - sec 75) was introduced by the Minister of
     Public Works on 6 April 2000 and referred to the Portfolio
     Committee on Public Works.


 (2)    Wetsontwerp op die Ingenieursweseprofessie [W 19 - 2000]


     The Engineering Profession Bill [B 19 - 2000] (National Assembly -
     sec 75) was introduced by the Minister of Public Works on 6 April
     2000 and referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public Works.


 (3)    Wetsontwerp op die Projek- en Konstruksiebestuursprofessies [W
     21 - 2000]


     The Project and Construction Management Professions Bill [B 21 -
     2000] (National Assembly - sec 75) was introduced by the Minister
     of Public Works on 6 April 2000 and referred to the Portfolio
     Committee on Public Works.


 (4)    Wetsontwerp op die Bourekenaarsprofessie [W 22 - 2000]


     The Quantity Surveying Profession Bill [B 22 - 2000] (National
     Assembly - sec 75) was introduced by the Minister of Public Works
     on 6 April 2000 and referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public
     Works.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and Disabled Persons on the National Youth Commission Amendment Bill [B 25 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 5 June 2000:

   The Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and Disabled Persons, having considered the subject of the National Youth Commission Amendment Bill [B 25 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the JTM as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill without amendment.

   The Committee further reports that the New NP opposed the Bill. The DP indicated that it was not in favour of the process followed: The Bill was not discussed by the Committee and therefore not properly considered by it. The DP felt that the Bill should be referred back to the Committee for proper discussion and consideration.