TUESDAY, 12 SEPTEMBER 2000 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                _____

The House met at 14:05.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                        WELCOMING OF MEMBERS

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, will you please take your seats. I trust you have had a restful leave. [Interjections.] You ought to, because you are now coming back to a very arduous session, so I hope the leave has been restful. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Microphones!

The SPEAKER: The microphones are still on leave. [Laughter.] Are they now working? Is that any better?

                             NEW MEMBERS

                           (Announcement)

The Speaker announced that the vacancy caused by the termination of membership of Mr A Williams had been filled by the nomination of Mr J Schippers with effect from 14 August 2000. The member had made and subscribed the oath in the Speaker’s office.

The Speaker announced that the vacancy caused by the death of Mr B R Mkhize had been filled by the nomination of Mr R J B Mohlala with effect from 1 September 2000.

                         SOLEMN AFFIRMATION

Mr R J B Mohlala, accompanied by Ms E Thabethe and Mr A C Nel, made and subscribed the solemn affirmation and took his seat.

                             NEW MEMBER
                           (Announcement)   The Speaker announced that the vacancy caused by the resignation of Dr K Rajoo had been filled by the nomination of Mr M S M Sibiya with effect from 1 August 2000.

                                OATH

Mr M S M Sibiya, accompanied by Mrs L R Mbuyazi and Mr J H van der Merwe, made and subscribed the oath and took his seat.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr D A A OLIFANT: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  that CMC Mayor, Rev William Bantom, has been sacked by the
       Western Cape Premier after being caught downloading child
       pornography from the Internet and watching pornography in his
       office;


   (b)  that Rev Bantom is the most senior leader of the New NP in the
       Cape metropolitan area, a party that is hypocritically based on
       a return to family values and Christian principles; and


   (c)  with shock that Premier Morkel has known about this since
       October 1999 and has done nothing to ensure that Rev Bantom was
       immediately removed from public office; and

(2) calls on -

   (a)  Western Cape communities to reject with contempt the New NP and
       DA's disregard for the scourge of extreme violence against
       children in the province by their apparent condonation of a
       catalyst to child abuse; and ...

[Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr W J SEREMANE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) congratulates the DP, the New NP and the FA on forming the Democratic Alliance;

(2) recognises that South Africa’s young democracy needs a strong, principled opposition which gives voters a viable alternative to the current Government;

(3) acknowledges that the forming of the DA will, for the first time, give the voters a real choice between a party for the comrades and a party for all the people; and

(4) wishes the members of the DA good fortune and expresses the hope that the next general election will see many more members of this new and vibrant party in the House thus deepening democracy in our country.

[Applause.]

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I will move tomorrow:

That the House notes that -

(1) the DP, New NP and FA who have formed the Democratic Alliance expressed the sincere desire to sit together in this House in one group;

(2) the IFP hereby agrees, as a gesture of good faith and in order not to be further accused of selfishness and obstructionism, to move out of their present seats to enable those members to sit together; and

(3) the IFP is accordingly prepared to move out of their seats into the seats now occupied by the DP, allowing the DP to move into our seats.

[Interjections.] [Laughter.] [Applause.]

Mr D M GUMEDE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the apology made by Primedia, the owners of Radio 702, to the
       Minister of Health with regard to the conduct of radio presenter
       John Robbie as a step in the right direction; and


   (b)  that Radio 702 and John Robbie are refusing to apologise for
       this despicable and disrespectful conduct towards Dr Manto
       Tshabalala-Msimang;

(2) welcomes the apology made by the Primedia management’s chairperson, Mr William Kirsh;

(3) acknowledges that the demand for an apology does not constitute a threat to press freedom …

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, your time has expired. Your entire motion will be published. That is not a threat to the freedom of speech in this House either. [Applause.]

Mr I J PRETORIUS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) notes with dismay that the date for the local government elections has still not been announced;

(2) expresses its concern that this delay will have a negative impact on the preparations for the elections, particularly as -

   (a)  the logistics for a local election are much more complex than
       those for a national election; and


   (b)  voting stations cannot be finalised until the date is set;

(3) believes that the Minister’s failure to finalise the date is a disgrace; and

(4) resolves that the election date be set as a matter of urgency.

Mr S ABRAM: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes with disappointment the continued abuse of young, innocent, helpless children;

(2) regards our children as the future of our land and the touchstone of value;

(3) expresses its deep sympathy with the parents and families of all child-abuse victims; and

(4) calls upon Government to leave no stone unturned in apprehending the perpetrators of these dastardly crimes.

Ms D P S JANA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) acknowledges that our country has a history of division and oppression of certain sections of the population by other sections;

(2) notes that while historic progress has been made towards building a united democratic nation, deep divisions and inequity still characterise our country;

(3) recognises that the Conference on Racism, which was held recently, was a major step in bringing issues of deep significance to the fore - issues that we are often embarrassed to confront;

(4) recalls, in particular, the contributions of President Mbeki and the hon Dr Pallo Jordan in highlighting these issues;

(5) acknowledges that significant proposals emanated from the conference; and

(6) proposes that a debate be held in Parliament on this conference and the implementation of proposals made at the conference. [Applause.]

Mr S N SWART: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move on behalf of the ACDP:

That the House -

(1) notes that the legacy of asbestos mining in South Africa has resulted in enormous suffering for South Africans from asbestos-related diseases;

(2) notes that some 3 000 claimants have instituted claims for compensation arising from such diseases against Cape PLC, a British domiciled multinational which, through various subsidiaries, mined asbestos deposits in South Africa from the 1890’s until 1979 when it disinvested;

(3) consequently welcomes the recent judgment of the House of Lords given in favour of the South African claimants which effectively allows their claims to be heard in Britain; and

(4) recognises that this decision is a victory for justice, both in terms of legal accountability of multinationals and the protection of human rights by the English courts.

Mr M U KALAKO: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  with deep concern the recent abduction and murder of five
       innocent little girls on the Cape Flats; and


   (b)  the arrest and subsequent court appearance of one suspect;

(2) welcomes the initiatives adopted by the affected communities to work closely with the police in bringing the perpetrators to book;

(3) expresses our sympathies with the families who have lost their loved little ones; and

(4) calls on the people of the Western Cape and nongovernmental organisations to redouble their efforts in working more closely with the police to bring an end to the scourge of child abuse and the senseless killing of innocent children.

[Applause.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes the offer by the Chief Whip of the IFP to move into the seats occupied by the Official Opposition; and

(2) agrees that if and when Minister Buthelezi decides whether his party is in government or in opposition, the Whips should determine whether he deserves to sit in the seat reserved for the person elected by the voters to be the Leader of the Opposition in South Africa.

[Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr M S BOOI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that, in the Wolseley Magistrates’ Court in the Western Cape, a SAPS police sergeant who set fire to a homeless man, Andries Petersen, was found not guilty of attempted murder because the magistrate found that the policeman had not intended to kill Mr Petersen;

(2) believes that, to create a caring society, the life of every person, regardless of race, faith, class, gender, age or sexual orientation, must be treated as sacrosanct;

(3) calls on every police officer, magistrate and judge to hold this principle central to the carrying out of their duties; and

(4) urges the prosecuting authority in the Western Cape to investigate the possibility of an appeal in this matter.

[Applause.]

Dr S J GOUS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) notes that the Minister of Health has distributed a chapter from a book entitled Behold a Pale Horse, by William Cooper, which claims that Aids was sent to Africa by aliens via the smallpox vaccine and, furthermore, that a cure for Aids exists but is being kept secret by the CIA;

(2) further notes that denial of the reality of Aids is one of the biggest problems faced by Aids activists attempting to encourage responsible sexual behaviour, and that articles such as this add to their problems by perpetuating myths on Aids;

(3) expresses concern about the error of judgment on the part of the Minister in choosing to disseminate this document; and

(4) calls on the Minister to distance herself from this document and to make a public statement clarifying her position on the origins of Aids.

Dr G W KOORNHOF: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) congratulates the South African Air Force on its 80th anniversary;

(2) notes with pride the success of the Africa Aerospace and Defence 2000 Exhibition hosted by the SA Air Force during the past week in Pretoria, which attracted a number of air forces from our continent and further afield;

(3) remembers the heroic and selfless actions by our Air Force earlier this year during life-threatening operations in flood-ridden areas; and

(4) salutes the men and women of our Air Force, who have now become a proud symbol of our nation and our dreams.

[Applause.]

Ms T R MODISE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that President Mbeki has constructively criticised the United Nations for reneging on its promises to write off the debt of Third World countries, its gender imbalance and its tendency to become a source of problems rather than contributing to solving global problems;

(2) congratulates the President for his sterling efforts to ensure that, for the first time in its 55-year history, the UN devoted a great proportion of its resolutions to Africa; and

(3) concurs particularly with the view of the Third World that President Mbeki has emerged from this summit as the most heralded leader and spokesperson for the world’s poorest nations.

Adv H C SCHMIDT: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House -

(1) notes that the Department of Correctional Services has applied to the court for the transfer of Allan Boesak and his accomplice, Freddy Steenkamp, to correctional supervision;

(2) notes further that the application follows after it was made clear by senior members of Government that Rev Boesak is a special friend of those in high places;

(3) insists on being informed of the criteria that were used - if any - in respect of the decision to apply to court; and

(4) distances itself from such clear and blatant forms of cronyism.

[Interjections.]

Mrs T J TSHIVHASE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that a recent study on poverty in South Africa shows that 28,5% of households in the country are living in poverty;

(2) further notes that the Eastern Cape and the Free State were identified as the poorest provinces, with most poor people living in rural areas throughout the country;

(3) acknowledges that this situation was inherited as a result of 40 years of apartheid rule that made ghettos out of the countryside; and

(4) calls on Government to proceed with its plans to increase funds to assist with poverty alleviation and with its campaign to attract more investment to further strengthen South Africa’s developing economy.

           RELEASE OF HOSTAGES MONIQUE AND CALLIE STRYDOM

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes with joy the release of the hostages Callie and Monique Strydom; (2) expresses its appreciation at the sterling efforts by President Gaddafi of Libya, President Mbeki, Minister Nkosazana Zuma, officials of the Department of Foreign Affairs and the international community to secure the release of the hostages;

(3) pledges to work for the release of all innocent hostages held internationally; and

(4) wishes the Strydoms everything of the best for the future.

Agreed to.

                 GET-WELL MESSAGE TO MR JOE NHLANHLA

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes with sadness the illness of Minister Joe Nhlanhla;

(2) conveys to Minister Nhlanhla its best wishes; and

(3) expresses the hope that Minister Nhlanhla will make a rapid and complete recovery.

Agreed to.

                        MOTION OF CONDOLENCE

                      (The late Mr E K Majola)

Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes with deep regret the death of Mr Eldridge Khaya Majola after a long illness;

(2) recognises the central role he played in cricket and rugby in the Eastern Cape, both as a player and administrator;

(3) expresses its appreciation of the role played by Mr Majola to promote cricket amongst all South Africans, particularly the disadvantaged people of South Africa, as director of amateur cricket for the United Cricket Board of South Africa;

(4) mourns the loss to the entire nation; and

(5) extends its deep sympathy to his wife and two children.

Agreed to.

      COMMEMORATION OF 23rd ANNIVERSARY OF DEATH OF STEVE BIKO

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr M A MANGENA: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that today, 12 September 2000, is the 23rd anniversary of the death of Steve Bantu Biko in detention; (2) notes that his life and manner of death had a profound impact on the history and politics of our country;

(3) wishes all those who are holding commemoration events success in their endeavours; and

(4) further wishes that his spirit and work will guide us to a better future.

Agreed to.

                        MOTION OF CONDOLENCE

                      (The late Mr B R Mkhize)

The SPEAKER: We will now proceed to the formal motions but, before I deal with them, hon members, as you are aware, our colleague the hon Bheki Mkhize was murdered at the end of July. His tragic death was a loss for this Parliament and for our country, which has a great need of citizens of his calibre and dedication.

I would now ask you to rise for a moment of silence. The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move:

That the House -

(1) expresses its deep regret at the tragic death, on 29 July 2000, of Mr Bhekokwakhe Robert Mkhize, and desires to place on record, its appreciation of his service to the people of this country, also as a member of this Parliament; and

(2) conveys its sincere sympathy to the relatives of the deceased in their bereavement.

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, the DP associates itself with this motion relating to our late colleague, Bheki Mkhize.

We learned with shock and outrage of the murder of this fine person and we can only trust that the perpetrators will be punished. Bheki was an endearingly friendly man, always with a smile, always with a friendly word and a handshake. He did not distinguish between those on that side of the House and those on this side. He was a friend to many and was liked and respected by many.

His family, his friends, his supporters and his party deserve our condolences, and the DP accordingly joins in this well-deserved parliamentary tribute to our late comrade.

Mr M D MSOMI: Madam Speaker, I rise to share with this august House the IFP’s condolences for the late Bheki Mkhize, a late member of this House, who is survived by his two wives and eight children.

The Lord has given and the Lord has taken, and this is the will of the Lord. All those whose lives were touched by Bheki Mkhize will agree with me that his ever-present smile disarmed everyone who thought of picking on him in a debate.

He won every debate before uttering a word. He spoke the truth as it was. He never paused to think whether it favoured one party against the other. He broke away from the confines of his own party and created a constituency of friends outside his rank and file.

It is this constituency beyond his party structures that sings praises and lamentations for the tragic death of my beloved brother and friend, Bheki Mkhize. May his soul rest in peace.

Mr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the New NP, we would like to support this motion. Personally, I met Bheki Mkhize about a year ago on a trip to a workshop. From the moment I met him, the man made an impact and an impression.

He was the kind of person that could make anybody feel special. Whether it was a porter at the airport or the flight personnel, he made everybody feel special. He was a loyal person. He was a person that stood up and was prepared to fight for what he believed in. He also even believed that Sundowns was the right soccer club to actually support.

However, Bheki Mkhize was also a man who made friends across the barriers of party-political lines. That is the reason why on the morning when I heard of his death, I immediately took the liberty of phoning the chairperson of the committee to find out what the arrangements for his funeral would be, because I thought it appropriate for the committee members to attend that funeral. That was the man, Bheki Mkhize.

We want to say: We salute you Bheki, and we also want to say: Khabazela, [endearment for Mkhize surname] your friends, your family and your party will miss you. [Applause.]

Nkszn O N MNDENDE: Somlomo, siyi-UDM sililisana nabantu boMzantsi Afrika ngokulahlekelwa nguKhabazele. Ayikakholeleki nanamhlanje into yokuba ngenene nenyani asisokube siphinde simbone uKhabazele, engena ngalaa mnyango encumile, exhabashile, eqhulana naye wonke umntu ophambi kwakhe. Ubesithi akuvula umlomo kuhleke wonke umntu, athi nobequmbile akulibale oko, ahleke aqikileke athi nobe enomvandedwa azibone ewuphose kwelokulibala.

Isithonga sokuwa kukaKhabazele asothusanga umzi we-ANC kuphela, usothuse sonke kangangokuba yayingathi kuza kuthiwa yimpazamo. Ke bethu umbuzo uthi: ``Ngubani na kanene umntu osezingqondweni obenonxa noKhabazele, kuba yena ebeyindoda enoxolo?’’

Kambe ke sililisana nabakwaMkhize nobukhozi babo. Sibabopha ngengubo enye sisithi: Ngxe!'' Sikwatsho nakuKhabaze le ukuba aze aguquke ekwelemimoya, amathambo akhe alale ukuthula ashukume, ajike zonke iingqondo zaba ndlothoyi basoloko bekhupha imiphefumlo engenatyala. Kothi kanti bafuna ukukhutshwa iqungu. Sithi siyi-UDM:Lala ngoxolo Khabazele!’’ [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa speech follows.)

[Miss O N MNDENDE: Madam Speaker, the UDM wishes to convey its condolences to the people of South Africa for the great misfortune they suffered on the loss of Khabazele. We still cannot believe that we will never see Khabazele again, rushing in through that entrance, a person who would share jokes with everybody. No one was able to keep from laughing at his jokes, and for a moment some of us would forget about our problems.

The news did not come as a shock only to the ANC, but all of us did not want to believe it. The question then arises: ``Who in their right minds could have had problems with such a peaceful man as Khabazele?’’

We, therefore, convey our condolences to the Mkhize family and their in- laws. To both families we say: May you have the strength to bear this pain!'' We wish that Khabazele's soul may rest in peace and may he, from his grave, send his spirit to change the minds of the murderers who continue to take innocent people's lives. Maybe they need to be exorcised. The UDM says:Rest in peace Khabazele!’’ [Applause.]]

Adv Z L MADASA: Madam Speaker, the late Mkhize was not a typical politician. He did not seek to be served or to be loved; he loved people dearly, he always wanted to serve them.

I have seen him, on numerous committee visits, loving and serving people in situations that were completely outside the scope of his duty. He would ask the staff members of various departments in places we visited their names. Whilst we were busy with our work, he would be busy with people. Often, when we left various sites, people would wave him goodbye.

His genuine love transcended all differences, be it political, racial or class. He was always friendly at all times. He was very bold in that he asked questions, often in very odd circumstances.

He had self-confidence, despite his obvious limitations with the English language. He would express his opinions in any manner, regardless of what the recipient thought. I found him to be amazing.

The continent of Africa is riddled with conflicts everywhere, and everyone is looking to us for help. His death is a reminder to all of us that there is still a lot to be done to strengthen democracy and to promote tolerance. We must all go out of our way to accommodate all views, even from our archrivals.

We must abandon the idea of political supremacy and domination - the idea of strongholds and ``no-go areas’’. Instead, we must promote freedom of choice. If we do not promote peace at all costs, we shall all perish.

The late Mkhize was not a politician as we have come to understand politicians. He was not a typical politician. He was a true politician - a civil servant. He was an example that we should all strive to emulate. The ACDP shall always miss him. Dr P W A MULDER: Madam Speaker, voters easily believe the propaganda that being a leader and a member of Parliament has only advantages. A real leader, someone like Mr Robert Mkhize, lives with his supporters and shares their problems. He was not an absent or a distant leader. Unluckily, this also then creates bigger risks for a leader, as has happened in this case; and that goes for all of us. We hope the investigation will be speedily completed so that the facts of what really happened might become clearer and the perpetrators be punished.

I convey the condolences of the FF to his wife, his children, and to all his family.

Mr G E BALOI: Madam Speaker, Bheki Mkhize’s death is a tragedy to the developing democratic society of South Africa. He will be missed by many South Africans who knew him.

Bheki was a jolly good friend and a friend in need. He loved and admired everybody whom he met and enjoyed a good joke. Bheki kaMkhize was a real son of the black soil of Africa. One would describe Mkhize as a clown, but he enjoyed making people laugh. His political career was shiny and promising. Our country and our nation has experienced a tough, challenging time by losing one of its irreplaceable sons, Bheki Mkhize. He lived a short life on this earth, like a flower to be picked at any time. We as the UCDP pray that his soul may rest in peace. We will always remember him.

Lala kahle Zulu. Hamba kahle mfo kaMkhize. [Rest in peace Zulu. Rest in peace son of Mkhize.]

Let God show you his mercy. To Mkhize’s family we say: Duduzelekani. [Be consoled.]

Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Speaker, the PAC associates itself with this motion.

The PAC received the sad news of the death of the hon Mr Bheki Mkhize with consternation. The circumstances under which he died are disturbing. The PAC sends its condolences to his family. It is tragic that our country should continue to lose scarce talent in this way. When Africans began to kill other Africans for sectarian political power through political thuggery, the PAC coined the slogan: ``Peace among the Africans’’. The PAC condemns all forms of violence resulting in the murder of our people. This reactionary violence benefits foreign interests and reduces the African population. African leaders in particular must prevail on the members of their political parties to stop this barbaric, unafrican culture. There can be no talk of democracy without political tolerance, nor can many flowers blossom in this unacceptable situation.

Lala kahle, Bheki Mkhize. Lala kahle Zulu. [Rest in peace, Bheki Mkhize. Rest in peace Zulu.]

Dr A I VAN NIEKERK: Mevrou die Speaker, die FA vereenselwig hom met die hulde aan mnr Bheki Mkhize, en spreek ook sy innige meegevoel uit met die familie wat swaar getref is deur hierdie onsinnige daad. Mag hulle berusting vind in die voorbeeld van sy lewe, waarin hy probeer het om op sy besondere manier vrede in ons land te bevorder.

Dit was met skok dat die FA kennis geneem het van mnr Mkhize se dood. Hierdie gebeure is onaanvaarbaar in ‘n demokratiese land. ‘n Menselewe kan nie ondergeskik gestel word aan politieke oortuigings nie, en sy dood vergroot elkeen van ons se verantwoordelikheid om dit in die toekoms te help voorkom. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Dr A I VAN NIEKERK: Madam Speaker, the FA associates itself with the tribute to Mr Bheki Mkhize, and also conveys its sincere condolences to the family, which was hard hit by this senseless deed. May they find comfort in contemplating the example of his life, a life in which he tried to promote peace in our country in his own inimitable way.

It was with shock that the FA learned of Mr Mkhize’s death. These events are unacceptable in a democratic country. Human life cannot be made of secondary importance to political convictions, and his death increases the responsibility of every one of us to help prevent this happening in future.]

Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, it is indeed on a very sad note that we have to start this new session of Parliament, not only because of the death of a respected colleague, but also because of the way in which he died.

Every single violent death in South Africa is one death too many - whether it is a victim of a bomb attack, a farmer on his farm or a colleague in Parliament. The AEB, as an organisation which chose to further its goals along the constitutional way, deplores acts such as this with the utmost contempt. May the death of the hon Mkhize send out an urgent signal to all of us, to all responsible leaders in our country, political, cultural and community leaders, that problem number one that must be combated in South Africa, is the culture of violence that threatens the roots of our society and the ideals of all our peoples.

If the tragic death of the hon Mkhize could urge every one of us, regardless of our political convictions, to act together against all the evil manifestations of violence in our country, then surely his death, like his life, would not have been in vain.

On behalf of the AEB, I want to express my deepest sympathy with the next of kin of Mr Mkhize and to everyone dear to him. May the Lord comfort them in their hour of great and severe loss.

Mr M A MANGENA: Madam Speaker, Azapo sends its condolences to the Mkhize family and to the ANC. All of us sitting here and constituting Parliament, which is an important component of the state, should be just as ashamed and angry as we are sad about the manner in which the hon Mkhize met his death.

This member of Parliament was not murdered by some thugs in some dark corner somewhere. He was dragged out of his bed, in his own house, by police at 03h00 in the morning and shot through the head. In what other country can this kind of thing happen? Is one not safe in one’s own bed? Should it not be even better and safer if a body of armed men and women representing the state are around or near one’s house?

We should be ashamed to be part of this state machinery that cannibalises its own members. How can we be proud of being part of this state which does things like these? May the soul of the hon Bheki Mkhize rest in peace.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, the ANC expresses outrage at the manner in which Comrade Bheki died. Even when he showed the police his parliamentary identity card, this could not save his life. He was shot dead in cold blood. An hon member of this House was shot dead by a policeman. Comrade Bheki Mkhize was born on the dusty hills of Mahlabathini, KwaZulu- Natal, on 18 August 1952. He grew up in a rural area in South Africa where means of existence were limited.

Faced with a vicious circle of poverty, Comrade Bheki was forced to leave school at an early stage of his life to seek employment in Johannesburg. He was employed at the University of the Witwatersrand as a security guard. It was during this period that Comrade Bheki started becoming politically active.

His love for his people led him to become one of the pioneers of trade union work at the university. During that period African workers did not enjoy protection of the law. They were literally excluded from the industrial relation system in the country.

Comrade Bheki became active in organising black workers to fight for their rights. His activities led him to be fired by the University of the Witwatersrand. Workers did not take this lying down. They engaged in industrial action that led to the reinstatement of the late Comrade Bheki.

Comrade Bheki became a shop steward of the former Commercial and Catering Workers Union, Ccawusa, which later became Saccawu. Comrade Bheki quickly rose to the leadership level of the progressive trade union movement in the country. When the General Workers Union merged with the SA Allied Workers Union to form the National Education, Health and Allied Workers Union, Comrade Bheki became the first president of this union.

Comrade Bheki understood the struggle for better conditions of work and to him the struggle for a living wage was inextricably linked to the struggle to dismantle apartheid and to replace it with a democratic order. For that reason, Comrade Bheki became active in community and political struggles. He was an active member of the SA Youth Congress. He was also active in the structures of the United Democratic Front.

The notorious, racist police forces kept him in detention for his political activities. During the high incidence of political violence in the then Transvaal, the ANC deployed Comrade Bheki to hostels to preach unity amongst the oppressed majority. He would spend several days in hostels spreading the word of peace. Although the hostel-dwellers knew him as a loyal member of the ANC, he was received warmly in the hostels. He knew most of the hostel-dwellers, as he had grown up with them.

He became an important link between the ANC and the hostel-dwellers. It is the activities of this nature that led the apartheid security system and their surrogates to develop deep-seated hatred for this comrade.

In 1996 Cosatu accepted the deployment of Comrade Bheki as an ANC member of Parliament in the national legislature. He served on the parliamentary Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration and the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises, and was also an alternate member of the Defence and Labour committees. At the time of his death he was working with the Department of Water Affairs to ensure that running water is made available to the people of Mahlabathini.

Comrade Bheki was a humble and humorous person who liked making friends with everybody. Comrade Bheki’s life has been under threat since he became active in the struggle for liberation. There have been a number of attempts on his life. His determination and commitment to freedom made him stand steadfast in the wake of these attempts. His ability to communicate with and unite people made the forces of darkness hate him.

The ANC and the people of South Africa have lost a true patriot. His blood will water the tree of freedom. We vow to take forward what Comrade Bheki lived and died for.

Hamba kahle, Comrade Bheki Mkhize! [Applause.] [Rest in peace, Comrade Bheki Mkhize!]

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, we will convey the sentiments expressed here to the late hon member’s family.

Debate concluded.

Motion agreed to.

         TERM OF OFFICE OF MEMBERS OF FIRST COUNCIL OF ICASA

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the House designates the Speaker, pursuant to section 7(2)(b) of the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa Act, 2000 (Act No 13 of 2000), to conduct the lot to determine the term of office of members of the first Council of the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa (Icasa) on behalf of the National Assembly, the lot to be conducted in an open meeting of the Speaker, the members of the Portfolio Committee on Communications and whips of all parties, the meeting to be convened as soon as possible.

Agreed to.

           APPOINTMENT OF DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the House appoints Mr M F Cassim as Deputy Chairperson of Committees.

Mr M J MAHLANGU: Madam Speaker, hon members, it gives me great pleasure to be accorded the privilege of addressing this House on this motion.

The hon member, Mr Farouk Cassim, is an eloquent speaker in this House. He is known as one of the members who have, in the past, raised more interpellations and questions, especially those related to science and technology. We do not want to miss this in the House.

However, I want to say this to the hon Cassim: Life is a game with many spectators. Those who watch the game are the hordes that wander through life with no dreams, no goals and no plans, even for tomorrow. Do not pity them. They have made a choice when they have not made a choice. To watch the race from the stand is safe. Who can stumble; who can fail; and who can be jeered if they make no effort to participate?

Mr Cassim was prepared to take the challenge of being promoted to the position of Deputy Chairperson of Committees. Great works are performed not by strength, but by perseverance!

A great writer once said, and I quote:

For when the one Great Scorer comes To write against your name, He marks - not that you won or lost - But how you played the game.

It will depend on how Mr Cassim plays this game as Deputy Chairperson of Committees. Again, I must say to him: Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. With patience one can bear up under any adversity and survive defeat. With patience one can control one’s destiny and have what one wants. Patience is the key to contentment for one and those whom one must live with. Mr Cassim should be patient as he takes up this post because it can at times become very hot in that seat and at times very cold. One has to adjust very quickly.

Booker T Washington also reminds us of that when he says, and I quote:

I believe that any man’s life will be filled with constant and unexpected encouragement if he makes up his mind to do his level best each day, and as nearly as possible reaches the high watermark of pure and useful living.

All I am asking is that the hon Cassim should do his best every day. Among the great and glorious gifts our heavenly Father sent us is the gift of understanding. God only asks us to do our best, then He will take over and finish the rest.

In conclusion, I want to say to the hon Cassim that, indeed, we may adopt a different approach in our work, but we should all be united in purpose to make this Parliament work for all the citizens of this country.

On behalf of the ANC, I wish to congratulate him as he takes up this challenging work, and hope he will be as successful as I expect him to be. I wish him good luck. [Applause.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, these are indeed wise words from the hon Mr Mahlangu!

It gives me pleasure to support the nomination of my friend, the hon Farouk Cassim, to the position of Deputy Chairperson. He has served for many years as an MP, both before and since the advent of democracy. Mr Cassim has always been a lively and an inquisitive member, and one hopes that he will preside over the House with a light hand. One may perhaps be forgiven for expressing the hope that he will be less loquacious in the Chair than he is out of it. [Laughter.]

Let me assure the hon Mr Cassim of the support of the Opposition. We would like to see him make a success of the position. I personally, will do what I can to co-operate and be helpful. Good luck to him! [Applause.]

Inkosi M W HLENGWA: Madam Speaker, hon members, I rise on behalf of the IFP to congratulate the hon member, Mr Farouk Cassim, on having been appointed to this high office of this institution.

When our brothers and sisters of Indian origin first came to this land, their mission was in the fields of sugar cane and one did not even anticipate seeing them occupying high offices of this nature. This is really an appropriate choice, since we know Mr Cassim for his astuteness and diligence. Secondly, I wish to commend this honourable House for having demonstrated its preparedness to achieve a high standard of excellence.

We also wish to commend the hon Speaker of this House for having succeeded in the establishment and maintenance of the integrity of her office. With the ushering in of the new incumbent - who is, undoubtedly, one of the illustrious sons of our country - the office of the Speaker is going to be imbued with the good qualities of both a representative and a dedicated servant of the people of our land.

Congratulations to Mr Cassim. We wish him well in his new career. [Applause.]

Mr J J DOWRY: Madam Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to express our sincere congratulations to the hon Mr Farouk Cassim on being elected Deputy Chairperson of Committees. The New NP not only supports the decision to appoint him to this position, but is also of the opinion that he will perform his duties in an outstanding and professional manner.

It was not so long ago that we had to say goodbye to Dr Rajoo, whose invaluable contributions would make it difficult for anyone to follow in his footsteps. Mr Cassim is certainly up to the task. The New NP is convinced that he is an excellent candidate for such a position, and for taking over the reins from Dr Rajoo.

Many of us have had the pleasure of working with Mr Cassim as an IFP MP, and we are now welcoming him to this position. We, as the New NP, look forward to working with him in his new capacity and believe that it would be an advantage for all members. It is not an easy task that lies ahead of him and we, therefore, wish him all the best in tackling the many obstacles that he will face. And we are sure that he will live up to his very high reputation.

Mr T ABRAHAMS: Madam Speaker, I rise to speak in support of the resolution, and the appointment of the hon Farouk Cassim as Deputy Chairperson of Committees.

We believe that Mr Cassim has the necessary qualities to acquit himself well of this task. He has a reputation for diligence. He is a conscientious worker, and a pest when it comes to questions and motions. He loves planning and paperwork. Those qualities will stand him in good stead. He is fastidious and meticulous when it comes to detail.

I would like to take this opportunity to appeal to Mr Cassim to once again look in his Rules Book at Rules 197, 198 and 224. If Mr Cassim follows in the footsteps of Mr Johannes Mahlangu, he will be doing very well. There is a bit of attention required in respect of these clauses, and we look forward to his contribution in that respect. Otherwise, from the UDM, we wish him every success in his new position.

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Madam Speaker, the ACDP congratulates Mr Cassim on his election as Deputy Chairperson of Committees. His dedication and hard work have not gone unnoticed and his election to this position proves that.

We know him as a person of sterling character, and trust that these characteristics will emanate from him during his term of office. We know that it is not easy to work under the shadow of his predecessor, who is a hard act to follow, but we encourage him to plot his own destiny and to make his own history. They say patience produces perseverance. We, as the ACDP, will do everything possible to make his job easier.

Dr P W A MULDER: Madam Speaker, as an Afrikaans speaker I still struggle always to make sense of the logic of the English language. Let me give an example. In English one runs'' for nomination, then onestands’’ for election to become the sitting'' member. Now Mr Cassim didrun’’ for nomination, he is standing'' for election, and will now become the sitting’’ chairman. Whether running, standing or sitting - it does not matter - we congratulate him on the position that he has been elected to and we really believe that he will do his best in this new position.

I am a bit worried about Inkatha. I am not sure who is going to ask questions on their behalf. We will have to see what happens.

Ons het volle vertroue dat hy deurlopend objektief en billik sal optree, en wens hom namens die VF sterkte toe in sy nuwe pos. [We have every confidence that he will always act objectively and fairly, and on behalf of the FF we wish him everything of the best in his new post.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Speaker and hon members, the UCDP takes this opportunity to congratulate the hon Farouk Cassim on his appointment to the position of Deputy Chairperson of Committees in this House.

Having served with Mr Cassim on two portfolio committees, first on the Portfolio Committee on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology and then on the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism, he came across as industrious, down-to-earth and profound in thought. He possesses two qualities of a leader: reason and judgment.

There is no doubt that he will bring grace, depth and dignity to the ranks of the presiding officers. Mr Cassim has the ability to give his ears enough practice in any given situation. This is an aspect that will surely stand him in good stead in deciding on issues in this august House. The UCDP, therefore, pledges to consult with, co-operate with and respect the new Deputy Chairperson of Committees.

Mrs P DE LILLE: Madam Speaker, the PAC also wishes to congratulate the hon Farouk Cassim on his appointment.

I was very happy when I learnt that the IFP selected him instead of Koos van der Merwe, which would have been a disaster. [Laughter.] I am convinced that the hon Cassim will pass this test with flying colours. He is a committed member of Parliament. I want to assure him of the support of my party, and we will listen when he shouts ``Order!’’.

Mr C AUCAMP: Mevrou die Speaker, namens die AEB wil ons mnr Cassim baie hartlik gelukwens met die prestasie om verkies te word in hierdie pos in hierdie Huis. [Madam Speaker, on behalf of the AEB we want to congratulate Mr Cassim most sincerely on the achievement of being elected to this post in this House.]

On different occasions I expressed my appreciation for the unbiased way in which the four referees of this game handled the whistle. I have good reason to believe that Mr Cassim will also do just this. I have got to know him as an open-minded, friendly man, and I know that he has the qualities required for this task.

I want to appeal to him to be a little bit more lenient to parties with only two minutes’ speaking time before he says: ``Hon member, your time has expired.’’ I want to congratulate him and I want to give him this advice: If ever he needs to discriminate against anyone in this House, then, according to the equality Bill, he must just make sure that the discrimination is fair and reasonable. Congratulations to Mr Cassim.

Mna M A MANGENA: Mohlomphegi Speaker, re lebogiša mohlomphegi Farouk Cassim ge a kgethilwe go ba yo mongwe wa batlhatlhi ba rena ka mo Ntlong. Re a tseba gore ke monna wa matlhale le mabjoko, yo a tlago kgona go phetha mošomo wo lego diatleng tša gagwe lehono. A tsebe gore re tlo mo thekga; re tlo mo latela ka go tseba gore a ka se re iše leopeng, eupša o tlo re iša mo re swanetšego go phetha mešomo ya setšhaba ka potego le tshwanelo. (Translation of Sepedi speech follows).

[Mr M MANGENA: Madam Speaker, I would like to congratulate the hon member Mr Farouk Cassim on his appointment as Deputy Chairperson of Committees in this House. We have confidence in him as a man of wisdom and discretion and we know that he is capable of performing the duties that have been entrusted to him. I would like to assure him of our support and to assure him that we will follow him because we know that he will never lead us astray, but will lead us in such a way that we will be able to perform our national duty properly.]

The SPEAKER: Order! Mr Cassim, I want to congratulate you on your election. I have some small experience of sitting on this Chair, and I would like to advise you that it is not always very comfortable … [Laughter] … but it is pleasant. I share the confidence that the House has shown in you and I am convinced that you will fulfil your new responsibilities with diligence, hard work and humour, and that you will not heed the requests for leniency that are put before you in the House. I wish to congratulate you once again, and now call on you to address the House. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Motion agreed to.

                 EXPRESSION OF THANKS ON APPOINTMENT

Mr M F CASSIM: Madam Speaker, I thank hon members for the confidence they have reposed in me. It is a daunting task which I undertake, made more so by the constant need to retain this precious confidence. I pray that after I have discharged my duty I shall still be worthy of such esteem.

Amongst other things, you will charge me with keeping order here and preserving the dignity of the House. Our joint ideal should be to have lively debates in a lively House, unmarked by running interjections or such collective protestations as to drown out speech or impede free expression.

Whatever is good in moderate measure becomes poisonous in its extreme. Whilst Madam Speaker and the presiding officers will hold sway over the affairs of this honourable House, the country at large charges us collectively with the responsibility to preside faithfully and conscientiously over its pressing affairs.

There are many old wounds to heal, extensive poverty to alleviate and relieve, and crime and lawlessness to overcome. We also have to establish greater goodwill and effect a lasting reconciliation. Even as we proceed with the business of the House today, our nation waits to be born. History reflects many leaders who rose to great prominence. But of these, only a few lifted their nations to a correspondingly great height.

We who breathe the pure air of Africa are so privileged to be able to infuse our beings with the even purer spirit of ubuntu. Having been touched by ubuntu, we can humbly acknowledge the complex interdependence that binds each one of us in close neighbourliness and which also dictates the very conditions of our existence. If we are 10 or so parties in this House, surely we are like 10 fingers of our own two hands within which we cradle the tender hopes of our diverse peoples.

Therefore, in the spirit of ubuntu, I give due acknowledgement to my generous leader, the caucus, the majority party and each of the members. They have afforded me a rare opportunity to assume an important responsibility in a rare institution of its kind. If together we keep faith with one another and with those who sent us here in the first place, we shall no doubt achieve a great fellowship and, with overflowing common purpose, steer our country to peace, happiness and prosperity. [Applause.]

                 TERROR ATTACKS IN THE WESTERN CAPE

                         (Draft Resolution)

The SPEAKER: Order! I shall now call upon Minister Maduna. Minister Maduna, you are the first speaker on this motion.

An HON MEMBER: Good morning! [Laughter.]

The SPEAKER: Order! I have just been told … [Interjections.] I am sorry, there is some confusion. I was told that the Minister would speak in the place of Mr Yengeni. I would like to suggest that the ANC get the rest of its list in order, because there have been some changes. [Interjections.] Order! I call on the hon Mr Yengeni.

The MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Madam Speaker, the list I have says I am the last but one speaker.

An HON MEMBER: The last but not the least. [Laughter.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move:

That the House - (1) expresses its total shock at and rejection of the recent terror attacks in the Western Cape;

(2) expresses its condolences to the family of Magistrate Piet Theron; and

(3) calls on the Government to use all means at its disposal to bring the perpetrators to book and fight urban terrorism, as it is an attack on our democracy.

Madam Speaker, there are no words to express the outrage we feel at the reign of terror imposed on the people of Cape Town. There are no words strong enough to condemn the actions of this faceless band of cowards, thugs and terrorists. There are no words to express our sympathy with those wounded or bereaved in these terrible attacks. We call on all parties in this House to speak with one voice, to condemn these terrorists and to devise strong and effective measures to uproot and destroy this scourge once and for all, and to remove this scum from our beloved country.

The SA Law Commission has made an assessment of our legislation and has identified gaps in the law. These gaps must be filled in a watertight set of laws enacted with the utmost urgency so that Parliament may assist the law enforcement agencies, the SAPS, the Scorpions, the intelligence services, the SANDF and the justice system to destroy this network of terrorists. These departments and units must close ranks to co-ordinate and unite their efforts. They must develop urgent policies and strategies to fight the terrorists with all the might of the law.

There are those who will say that we are trying to undermine the Constitution if we attempt to introduce special legislation to deal with urban terrorism. But all democracies where terrorism is a threat have passed special laws and implemented specific policies to deal effectively with such attacks on the state. We cannot be an exception. In fact, many democratic countries have special units, created and trained to trace and destroy terrorist networks. We cannot pussyfoot with these terrorists. They are dangerous and cowardly. Their main intention is to strike fear in the hearts of the vulnerable and the innocent. Their agenda is to derail our hard-won democracy, a democracy based on the rights of all citizens, regardless of race, faith, gender or class. It is time for boldness. It is time for unity. Our message to the terrorist bombers must be that their campaign will not succeed, that the people of this country and province will unite against them. These terrorists have chosen soft targets, unarmed magistrates, gay and lesbian bars, tourist venues and restaurants. But we must not be fooled: their main target is the state. Their main target is democracy.

They must know that we fought so hard and for so long for our freedom that no number of cowardly terrorist bombs is going to rob us of our victory over oppression and exploitation. We fought injustice with our lives; we will defend our democracy, if needs be, with our lives. In times of violence and threats our judgment is often clouded by emotion. We should therefore stand back and look at some facts.

It is a fact that a string of Pagad G-force members have been convicted of terrorist-related activities. It is clear that Pagad is directly involved in this terrorist campaign. The ANC warns Pagad that they should not play with fire; war is not a game. Our people do not want war; we want peace and prosperity, we want justice and opportunity for all. For nearly a century the ANC has championed the rights of all the people of this country.

The ANC is steadfast in its belief in the rights of all South Africans, black and white, and of whatever religion, be they Christian, Muslim, Hindu or Jewish, be they atheistic or traditionalist. This is why the ANC is the most representative organisation in this country, representing all groups of this country. This is why the ANC is home to so many Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus and traditionalists. That is why more Christians give us their vote than vote for the ACDP, why more Muslims vote for the ANC than for the Muslim party. It is because we espouse universal values, values of equality and equity, the values espoused by the prophets of all major religions.

Organisations such as Pagad which seek to mobilise support by hiding behind religion, perverting the tenets of their religion for their own evil ends, will never be allowed to win the day in this land. We call on right-minded people to expose those who use their religion to wreak pain, suffering and death in our communities. We call on the religious leaders of all communities to stand together in condemning this outrage and to speak out against religion being used for evil ends. We call on the people of the Western Cape not to provide a shield for Pagad, and to come forward with any information that will end Pagad’s reign of terror.

Let the people of Cape Town show their outrage by marching together, whatever their colour, class or creed, to show these cowards that we are one city, proud to belong to one nation. Let us show our support for Government efforts by marching in our thousands to say: “Enough is enough. Down with the terrorists, down!” [Applause.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, South Africa is a constitutional state and a liberal democracy. All shades of political opinion can and do operate in the country. In these circumstances no one has the right to violence and no one can justify violence against the state. Acts of terrorism and violence, the bombing of property and people, and the assassination of a judicial officer cannot be condoned or understood or justified in any way.

The whole of this Parliament, Government as well as the Opposition, will stand united in condemning criminals who seek to subvert our freedom and democracy. Too many people have suffered and toiled over too many years for us to allow our democracy to be torn from our grasp. No one has claimed the credit or the blame for the acts of terrorism and violence which have marred ordinary life here in the recent past.

One can only assume that the aim is the destabilisation of the Western Cape, the destruction of the tourism industry, the further destruction of the job opportunities of all our people, and the weakening of the authority of the state. How we react to this challenge will determine whether South Africa is to experience a deepening and an affirmation of democracy or whether we are to depart from democracy and the rule of law and embark on the path which leads to authoritarianism.

The President of the Constitutional Court, Justice Chaskalson, delivered an extremely important speech recently. That speech was a brilliant summation of the argument for constitutionalism and a warning which South African society in general, and parliamentarians in particular, would do well to heed. He said the following:

What is disquieting is the connection some make between crime and our commitment to uphold human rights, as if crime were caused by the Constitution and would disappear if we were to abandon that commitment. This is a dangerous belief.

Elsewhere Justice Chaskalson states:

The greatest deterrent to crime is the likelihood that offenders would be apprehended, convicted and punished.

This is where we start developing problems, because what I find unacceptable is that six years and more into our democracy, this country seems not to be transforming and improving the criminal justice system. On the contrary, elements of the criminal justice system seem to be deteriorating, and that is a breach of faith with our voters, a breach of faith with our Constitution and a breach of faith with ourselves as parliamentarians.

I readily acknowledge that there has been a great improvement in the relations and increased co-operation between the Western Cape government and the national Government. And for this I wish to compliment and thank the hon the Minister, Mr Steve Tshwete, and his provincial counterpart. However, I regret to say that that is about all what has improved. There seems to be a belief in the opposite benches that all conditions can be cured by legislation: Once one has passed a law, something miraculous happens and conditions improve. Too often this Parliament passes useless laws which are not properly thought through and implemented by the departments concerned. I want to give hon members the example of the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, which was passed with good intentions but has had disastrous consequences in the police force. The force is already grossly overburdened, undermanned and underresourced, and the Act has profound implications for policemen working overtime.

The war against crime does not stop when office hours end. But it is now impossible to instruct policemen to work overtime, because if they do they cannot be paid. The problem is that there is no budget for overtime pay. I want to ask: What sort of lousy, inefficient and pathetic Government is this? The Scorpions, if one may use them as an example, are called into existence without democratic, legislative underpinning. We have now reached a situation in the Western Cape where there is such a lack of co-operation between the SAPS and the Scorpions that in some cases matters cannot come to trial, because they cannot co-operate with each other.

South Africa’s intelligence services are a mess of inadequate legislation, control and oversight. We spend close to R1 billion per annum on intelligence and it is time that it started to produce. I want to point out to this House that we do not have the manpower, the resources and it would seem the knowledge in our intelligence services to do what is necessary in a terrorist situation, ie to infiltrate these organisations and get the information and the intelligence we need to stop these acts of terrorism in their tracks. We have neither the resources nor the personnel, and all of this is exacerbated by the fact that our intelligence capacity is weakened further by interagency rivalry and mistrust.

What is the Democratic Alliance saying? We are saying that we have a Constitution. We are saying that we depart from the rule of law and that Constitution at our peril. We say that the terrorist groups and criminals are targeting that Constitution and the state itself. They actually want to destroy that Constitution and they would like us to depart from it, because then they would have achieved one of their aims.

We are saying, in the DA, that the deterioration in the criminal justice system cannot be allowed to continue. We are saying that, if necessary, Government must introduce Supplementary Estimates and vote the money which is necessary to start repairing some of the fabric in the criminal justice system. Until we get that system right, we will not get control of the criminals or of crime. Until we get control of crime in this country, we cannot make progress in delivering a better life for all our people. [Applause.]

Mr V B NDLOVU: Madam Speaker and the honourable House, this House sleeps in the shadow of a grave and growing threat to the citizens of this city, to the tourist economy of this province and, indeed, to the authority of the state itself.

Twenty major bombs have been inflicted upon Cape Town since the images of the blast at Planet Hollywood just two years ago reverberated around the world. By a stroke of fortune Friday’s attack did not cause serious injuries, but scores of people have already been traumatised, injured and, tragically, some have lost their lives. I am sure the condolences of this House go to all the families.

The callous weakness of those responsible for these attacks cannot be overstated, but condemnation is a chief commodity of politicians, which is what we are doing now. As politicians, we must face the facts. The bombers care little for our condemnation and even less for our anger. They will not stop their wickedness until decisive police action has put them behind bars for good. Today the prospect of that seems as far away as ever. Indeed, it would appear that these bombers increasingly feel that they can get away with anything. The assassination, on Thursday last week, of magistrate Pieter Theron turned a chilling page in this cycle of violence, and first indications suggest that it is linked to these bombings.

I am now afraid for this country of ours. I am wondering what we are allowing to happen to this beautiful land. Are we just going to stand aside while South Africa slips into Mafia-style criminality in which anybody who seeks to uphold the law is simply eliminated? I welcome the fact that the authorities have promised to provide protection for our judiciary, but I fear for the country whose judicial officers must go around in fear of their lives. The Minister has been promising decisive action for many months, yet the bombers’ acts increase with impunity.

I know that the Minister and the security services have a very difficult job, not least because no one has ever claimed responsibility or issued demands as a result of these bombs, but I want to say to the Minister that this situation has been allowed to continue for too long. We have had the Minister on the radio and on TV regularly blaming Pagad for this outrage. I do not know what evidence the Minister has to say that this is the case. However, I do have a question. If the authorities are so sure that Pagad is behind the bombs, why have they not acted immediately against it? Why has its membership not been thoroughly infiltrated by the security forces? Why is it not shut down now and everybody who is thought to be a member of the party arrested so that we know what the Minister is doing?

If the Minister is so sure of his facts, then I ask him to help us so that we should be able to help him have more powers to shut down this Pagad organisation once and for all, if indeed Pagad is responsible. [Interjections.] I think that the Minister must also sit down with his provincial Minister of community services and review the whole approach to this matter. They must look at why our security forces appear to be ineffective. They must ensure that there is a co-ordinated and focused response to this threat and they must end tension and rivalry between the various branches of the service which hamper the effectiveness of the security forces.

I also hope that the Minister and his provincial counterparts will consider a public information campaign to urge the people to be vigilant about abandoned packages and suspicious circumstances, and to ask them to become the eyes and ears of the police in the Cape. The seriousness of the current situation cannot be overstated. The ramifications go beyond any one province. They affect all of South Africa. Today the very authority of the state is being mocked and its justice system is being targeted by violence and intimidation. Its first duty of protecting its citizens is going undischarged. The time for empty words is long past. The time for decisive action is now due.

I pledge the full co-operation of my party in ensuring that the security forces have all the necessary powers at their disposal to smash, once and for all, the monstrous evil that threatens to take over our society. [Applause.]

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Madam Speaker, between 26 June 1998 and 8 September 2000 there were 20 bombings in the Western Cape but not a single conviction. Yes, certain bombings were prevented, and we congratulate the SA Police Service for that. But why can these perpetrators, who are sabotaging the economy of the Western Cape and destroying job opportunities on a daily basis, not be brought to book?

There may be many reasons. An important reason, in my view, is the fact that the ANC-led Government has so far failed to empower the SA Police Service in the Western Cape to operate effectively. The SA Police Service in the Western Cape are understaffed, ill-equipped and underpaid.

Given the specific nature of crime in the Western Cape, gangsterism, taxi violence, drug trafficking and urban terrorism, one would have thought that police officers would swamp the area. Far from it! In the Western Cape every 408 citizens have to rely on the protection of one police officer, whilst in Gauteng one police officer serves 390 citizens.

No wonder that the five specialist units operating in the Western Cape, including the one charged with investigating crimes against the state, are understaffed. Yes, we welcome the deployment of extra manpower in the Western Cape, but the problem cannot be addressed on an ad hoc basis. It will have to be dealt with on a permanent basis.

The SA Police Service in the Western Cape is also ill-equipped, with vehicle shortages posing a headache. How can one solve a single case when 14 detectives at the Langa police station are forced to share one vehicle?

The SA Police Service in the Western Cape is also underpaid. The five specialist units operating in the Western Cape already exhausted their overtime budget during the first quarter of the financial year. Although they work 20 hours overtime a week, they only get paid for two hours overtime a month. No wonder that these units, including again the one investigating crime against the state, ground to a complete standstill when they closed shop over the weekend of 2 and 3 September.

Tougher laws are not the answer to counteract urban terrorism. The Minister must empower the SA Police Service in the Western Cape to implement, inter alia, a zero-tolerance approach, and he may be surprised by the results. The arrest of what seems to be an ordinary car thief, in terms of the zero- tolerance approach, may turn out to be the bomber that the Minister is looking for.

In die 20 bomontploffings is tot dusver genadiglik net drie mense dood. Dit dui óf op onbedrewenheid en ‘n gebrek aan ervaring by die bomplanters óf op ‘n spesifieke kundigheid. In albei gevalle lê ‘n potensiaal opgesluit wat ‘n groot ramp kan veroorsaak as daar nie vinnig opgetree word en die verdagtes aan die man gebring word nie.

Ons dank die SA Polisiediens vir die beskerming wat hulle verleen aan justisie-amptenare wat betrokke is by hoëprofielsake. Geen land met selfrespek durf hom laat afpers deur terreur van watter aard ook al nie. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[In the 20 bombings up to now mercifully only three people have died. This points towards either a lack of skill and experience on the part of the bombers, or towards a particular skill. Both instances have the potential to cause a major disaster if swift action is not taken to bring the suspects to book.

We thank the SA Police Service for the protection they render to judicial officers who are involved in high profile cases. No country with self- respect dare allow itself to be blackmailed by terrorism of whatever kind. [Time expired.]]

Ms A VAN WYK: Madam Speaker, during the budget speech on Safety and Security, the Minister claimed that, as a result of Operation Good Hope, urban terrorism was under control. At that time, the UDM criticised the Minister for making such a statement and we judged the comment to be premature and indeed it did not take long for the acts of urban terror to reoccur. On 21 May a bomb was found outside a Sea Point restaurant by members of the public, and subsequently deactivated by members of the police bomb disposal unit. Since then, the spate of bombings and acts of urban terror in the Western Cape has increased dramatically, reaching a climax with the assassination of Magistrate Theron. Comments of this nature should be reserved until the perpetrators have been brought to book.

The problem of urban terror and bombings is rooted in the culture of gangsterism and organised crime. The Western Cape specifically has had severe problems regarding both these issues for many years. The apartheid government failed to address this problem adequately, and at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission it was revealed that gangsters were even used by the previous government in an attempt to destabilise communities and counter the efforts of liberation organisations.

The current Government, unfortunately, is also letting the problem go unattended. Reports on acts of violence, bombings and drive-by shootings on the Cape Flats go unmentioned and seem not to attract the same kind of publicity from the media and action from the Government. Only now that the problem has spilled over to other communities do we see action by the Government, albeit in a frantic and haphazard fashion.

It took the assassination of a magistrate before we saw some sort of co- operation between the intelligence community and the law-enforcement agencies. Still - and this I am sure will be vigorously denied, despite the public pretence of co-operation - there are reports of tension between these role-players. It was announced that a joint operation centre would be established to co-ordinate the efforts of all authorities involved in the fight against urban terrorism. This is long overdue and is most welcome. Let us just hope that this latest effort does not go the same route as Operation Good Hope.

The acts of urban terror can only be dealt with if they are handled in a holistic and integrated manner. They require an end to political games - such as those we have just experienced - that might be played between the provincial government of the Western Cape and the national Government.

We have seen that the Government is content to let us believe that there is some sort of sinister bogeyman with extremist political and religious motives, rather than considering other possibilities, for instance that urban terror, more often than not, is an instrument used by gangs and organised crime. The motivation, then, is primarily money and power. Organised criminals all over the world and throughout history have used protection rackets to achieve this end.

Let us not resort to convenient scapegoats who, like the bogeyman, can be driven out occasionally, but never caught. What we need is real and concerted police work, combined with community involvement and awareness. [Time expired.]

Rev K R J MESHOE: Madam Speaker, the majority of South Africans are peace- loving people who want to live in tranquillity and free from fear. However, the reality is that they are living in fear while criminals walk around terrorising the innocent, defying authority and even challenging the effectiveness and might of the state.

From January to September this year about eight bombings have taken place in the Western Cape. Lives have been lost and many people injured in the process, including eight police officers in Green Point. To date no convictions or arrests of the bombers have taken place. People are asking questions about the relevance of our country’s intelligence, the ability of the police to investigate and arrest, and the effectiveness of our judicial system.

A number of police stations have been targeted and bombed in the past two years, and the Wynberg Magistrates’ Court saw a bomb that was attached to a motorcycle explode in front of it in January this year. Last week on Thursday a magistrate was assassinated in his driveway. Peace-loving South Africans want to know why the Government seems to be unwilling to crush the rebellion that is taking place in this province. All those who are involved in these bombings must be taught that crime does not pay.

It is the responsibility of the Government to protect all its citizens from terrorists and lawbreakers and to punish the criminals. The fight against crime will not be won until criminals fear punishment. As long as people think that they will get away with their crimes, they will continue to commit crimes.

We have on numerous occasions offered the Government the use of the ACDP’s crime-eradication strategy. I assure the Minister today that if the Government implements the strategy in our document, crime will be dealt a deathblow, not only in the Western Cape, but throughout the country.

The ACDP will support any measures taken by the Government, including special laws that may be introduced by this Parliament, to stop terrorism in this country. Our people deserve to be free from fear of attack from criminals. [Interjections.]

Genl C L VILJOEN: Mevrou die Speaker, die VF skaar hom aan die kant van al die partye wat die terreurbomme veroordeel wat besig is om hierdie Kaap van ons, die mooi Kaap, die Kaap van Goeie Hoop, te skend. Ons wil ons steun toesê aan strenger maatreëls, en ons sal strenger maatreëls steun, veral as dit noodmaatreëls ingevolge die Grondwet is, solank ons die Grondwet net nie buig nie.

Die VF wil verder ook sy meegevoel betuig met die slagoffers en hul geliefdes, veral dié van die landdros wat onlangs geskiet is. Hierdie terreur, veral stedelike terreur, is ‘n kanker in die staat. Dit is besig om voorspoed te kelder, en dit sal onsekerheid in die land skep. Dit breek mense se moed. Dit kan ‘n ernstige situasie wees, want in hierdie soort operasie kan ‘n klein groepie mense ‘n hele land lamlê. Dit word gesê dat daar tydens die hoogtepunt van die Ierse Republikeinse Leër se bestaan nooit meer as 300 opgeleides in die IRL beskikbaar was nie.

Ek het vandag ‘n dringende boodskap wat ek graag wil oordra. Eerstens moet ons weet elke vorm van terreur het ‘n angel. As hierdie angel ‘n diepliggende ideologiese geskilpunt is, en dit kan hier die geval wees, dan moet dit so spoedig moontlik onder oë gesien word. Ek het eendag in die tagtigerjare as ‘n beroepsoldaat die toenmalige regering raad gegee - toe was ons in ‘n baie sterk militêre posisie - en gesê elke jaar wat hulle langer neem om hierdie strategiese posisie op te los gaan hulle strategiese opsies verminder.

Vandag wil ek dieselfde vir hierdie Regering sê, en ek wil ook ‘n beroep doen op die Moslemgemeenskap en op Pagad om op ‘n wyse bymekaar uit te kom om die ideologiese geskilpunte te probeer identifiseer en te kyk of ons daardeur ‘n oplossing kan kry. Ek doen die beroep, want as ons te lank uitstel, gaan hierdie situasie verhard en ‘n oplossing gaan al hoe moeiliker word om te bereik, en dan gaan ons nooit hierdie kanker uitgeroei kry nie. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Gen C L VILJOEN: Madam Speaker, the FF associates itself with all the parties which condemn the terror bombs which are maiming this Cape of ours, the beautiful Cape, the Cape of Good Hope. We want to pledge our support to stricter measures, and we will support stricter measures, particularly if they are emergency measures in terms of the Constitution, as long as we do not bend the Constitution.

Furthermore the FF would also like to express its condolences to the victims and their loved ones, particularly those of the magistrate who was recently shot. This terror, particularly urban terror, is a cancer in this state. It is jeopardising prosperity, and it will create uncertainty in the country. It breaks people’s spirit. It can be a serious situation, because in this sort of operation a small group of people can paralyse an entire country. It is said that at the height of the Irish Republican Army’s existence there were never more than 300 trained people available in the IRA.

Today I have an urgent message which I would like to convey. Firstly, we must know that every form of terror has a sting. If this sting is a deep- seated ideological point of dispute, and this may be the case here, then it must be examined as quickly as possible. One day during the eighties, as a professional soldier, I gave advice to the then government - at that stage we were in a very strong military position - and said that each additional year they took to solve this strategic problem would mean a reduction in their strategic options.

Today I want to say the same thing to this Government, and I also want to appeal to the Muslim community and to Pagad to find one another in some way, in order to try to identify the ideological points in dispute and see whether we can find a solution in that way. I am making this appeal because if we delay for too long this situation will become entrenched and a solution will become increasingly difficult to find, and we will then never eradicate this cancer.]

Mrs Z A KOTA: Madam Speaker, Ministers, comrades and colleagues, allow me to express our condolences to all victims of the bombings in the Western Cape. We share their pain, anger and frustration. We wish to see an end to this unbearable situation. The continued terror bombings in the province are a blow to the tourism boom. This creates constant fears for all innocent citizens. We appeal to the perpetrators of violent terror to refrain from this evil deed.

The challenge that faces everyone is the issue of tolerance enshrined in our Constitution and in our Bill of Rights, which emphasises the protection of the human rights of all citizens. The building blocks of our rainbow nation are the expression given by those rights, so that they can be expressed without fear of intimidation of whatever kind. Even at this eleventh hour, we appeal to those who feel aggrieved to express their dissatisfaction in a manner that does not infringe on the rights of other people, in a manner that does not put other people’s lives in danger.

The Western Cape has an important role to play in the economic development of South Africa through its tourism, but at present that objective is being thwarted. There cannot be effective economic development if there is instability. Tourists are driven away by these unfortunate incidents. The safety and security of our citizens is at stake. We call upon the people of our province to continue to be vigilant at all hours. Together we need to track down these faceless terrorists who continue to commit these brutal acts. They are cowards as their targets are soft targets - magistrates, people having lunch, people having a good time at night clubs after a day’s hard work.

These terrorist bombers are our neighbours, our sisters, our brothers, our cousins, our friends, etc. Let us expose them. The job to bring this violence down cannot be the responsibility of the police and the Scorpions unit alone. It is the responsibility of each and every one of us to ensure that the little information we have will put together the jigsaw puzzle that we need in order to eradicate this terrorism once and for all. Our goal is to build a better life for all. As the ANC we are committed to doing exactly that. We need the involvement of each and every one - the Government, business, NGOs and our communities. Let us take our destiny into our own hands by assisting the institutions that have been given the task of tracking down these terrorists.

The Western Cape is steadily losing its beautiful image as the mother city and turning into a city of despair and hopelessness. This ongoing attack on our province affects our nation as a whole. Our image as a country is being affected. This cannot be allowed. At the core of this problem should be our resolve to defend the gains of our new democracy, as enshrined in our Constitution and in the Bill of Rights. No amount of terrorism should detract us from that noble and just cause.

The Minister of Safety and Security, Comrade Steve Tshwete should be applauded for his hands-on approach in dealing with this matter, together with Comrade Bulelani Ngcuka, the National Director of Public Prosecutions, and Comrade Penuell Maduna, the Minister of Justice. We are convinced that together they will be able to resolve these bombings.

None of us has the right to impose our will by means of violent terror. We must unite in our diversity and strive to make this country a better place for all. Our victories, after a long battle, over colonialism and apartheid, are now under threat from a small group of faceless murderers who do not even have the conviction to claim their acts of terrorism or even to say what it is that they want. We are not about to relinquish power or to raise our arms and surrender. They can crawl into their foxholes, cowards that they are, but we will get them and we will crush them. And the full might of the law will be brought unto them. As South Africans, we must be united in our resolve to bring these perpetrators to book. [Applause.]

Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Madam Speaker, any self-respecting nation, of which South Africa is no exception, cannot allow itself to be held to ransom by the spate of violence that prevails in the Western Cape.

There have been 18 bomb blasts in the past two years in Cape Town. There have been eight bomb attacks this year, three of which have occurred in the past six weeks. At least three people have been killed in these bombings and more than 100 people have been injured.

To me, this cowardice cannot be left unchallenged. To date no group has claimed responsibility for the attacks. This has given rise to suggestions that it is the work of terrorists who are determined to undermine the state. What would be their ostensible reason for such acts? Let them come out clearly and precisely on their demands, and not withdraw into their cocoons.

The results of such bombings have a negative effect on the economic development of our fledgling democracy. For example, damage to the tourism industry scares away prospective investors, as well as creating fear and panic amongst the people of Cape Town. This also creates fear in the criminal justice sector, particularly amongst people who are involved in the investigation of urban terror cases like the recent gunning down of the magistrate.

A possible solution to this urban terror is for all South Africans to join hands, both at national and provincial levels, and to do the following: strategise against urban terror; mobilise army forces to monitor areas deemed to be urban terror targets; and improve security measures for judicial officers involved in urban terror cases.

The community needs to take responsibility for the attacks. Someone out there knows who are responsible and people need to come forward to expose these barbarous creatures. We should consider anti-terrorism legislation. [Time expired.]

Mrs P DE LILLE: Madam Speaker, the PAC also wants to condemn these bombings unreservedly. We must remain calm and not become emotional. We should also be disciplined when tackling this scourge.

Therefore it is important to call on the Ministers to stop making inflammatory statements. If these statements are based on facts, then we want the police to arrest the culprits and get convictions. If these statements are based on hearsay, then they are just increasing tensions in our communities.

We must also not raise expectations that the police are on top of the situation, while we know that they are not. Parliament must be given an undertaking that these kinds of statements will stop. Now, as a solution, we must increase the investigative capacities and resources of the police. If we do not have the resources, we must find them.

We must remove the competition between the security agencies. We must not create further expectations by promising tougher anti-terrorist legislation, because our past has taught us that even though we had a racist regime with racist and draconian antiterrorist laws, this did not stop MK, Apla and Azania from continuing with the struggle.

We need to know exactly what the problems are, rather than making unsuccessful attempts at treating the symptoms. The PAC will support any initiatives that are constitutional and legal.

Dr A I VAN NIEKERK: Mevrou die Speaker, die voorkoms van bomontploffings in die Wes-Kaap is onrusbarend. Die terreurdade verontrus en ontstig die inwoners van die Wes-Kaap, en hou toeriste weg. Dit is ontstellend dat daar nog geen persone in verband met dié bomaanvalle aangekeer of gevang is nie. Dit beklemtoon die feit dat daar ernstige leemtes is in die vermoë van die Suid-Afrikaanse beskermingsdienste om hierdie vorm van terreur aan bande te lê. Statistiek toon dat uit elke 100 misdaadsake wat by die polisie aangemeld is relatief min genoegsaam ondersoek word, en net 5,4% uiteindelik tot suksesvolle vonnisse ly. Dit beteken dat 94% van alle misdaad ongestraf gelaat word.

Die beskikbare vonnisse vir ernstige vorms van misdaad is kwaai. Die fout lê dus nie soseer by die vonnisse nie, maar by die onvermoë van die veiligheidsdienste om misdadigers op te spoor, te vang en te laat straf. Die misdadiger of terroris weet dat die kans dat hy gevang kan word baie skraal is. Hulle gaan dus voort met hulle gruweldade en elimineer met moord enige moontlike getuie in die wete dat die kans dat hulle gevang en gevonnis sal word nog minder sal wees. Hierdie is ‘n ernstige toedrag van sake, en ‘n regering wat dit duld en niks daaraan doen nie, is nie die naam regering werd nie.

Waar lê die oplossing dan? Groter finansiële steun deur die staat en meer mannekrag is nodig om ons veilgheidsdienste in staat te stel om misdadigers vinnig en doelgerig op te spoor en te vang. Beter koördinering tussen die veiligheidsmagte van Suid-Afrika is ook nodig. Die twis tussen die polisie en die Skerpioene is totaal onaanvaarbaar. Die algemene publiek het min vertroue in die Suid-Afrikaanse veiligheisdienste se vermoë om misdaad te bekamp. Mense spot met die polisie oor die inbreker in die President se ampswoning, wat sekerlik die besbewaakte woning in die land behoort te wees. Die herstel van die vermoë van ons veiligheidsdienste om doeltreffend op te tree sal hierdie negatiewe houding van die publiek omkeer en hulle samewerking verseker om inligting van hulle kant af te bekom en hulle bydrae te kry om die probleem op te los

• iets wat op die oomblik ontbreek.

Die FA doen ‘n beroep op die President om spoedeisend en daadwerklik die probleme van finansies en mannekrag en die koördinering van veiligheidsmagte op te los. Die ekonomiese koste vir die Wes-Kaap en Suid- Afrika in geheel is veel groter as die kostebesparing van die R1 miljard of R2 miljard wat nodig is om die probleme van ons veiligheidsdienste te stel.

Die sentrale Regering het ‘n groot verantwoordelikheid om die veiligheid te verseker van alle inwoners in die land, en veral van die wetsgehoorsame burgers wat die oorgrote meerderheid van die bevolking van die land uitmaak. Die verantwoordelikheid van die Regering om na die veiligheid van mense in Suid-Afrika om te sien kan nie opsy geskuif word en deur ‘n geldtekort verskoon word nie. Iets daadwerklik moet gedoen word. En ek herhaal my beroep op die President om in te gryp en daadwerklik iets te verander sodat ons dit kan stop. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Dr A I VAN NIEKERK: Madam Speaker, the incidence of bomb explosions in the Western Cape is alarming. These acts of terrorism alarm and upset the inhabitants of the Western Cape and keep tourists away. It is alarming that no one has as yet been arrested or caught in connection with these bomb attacks. This emphasises the fact that there are serious shortcomings in the ability of the South African protection services to curb this form of terrorism. Statistics reveal that out of every 100 cases of crime that are reported to the police, relatively few are investigated sufficiently, and only 5,4% eventually lead to successful passing of sentences. This means that 94% of all crime goes unpunished.

The available sentences for serious forms of crime are heavy. The problem thus does not necessarily lie with the sentences, but with the inability of the security forces to locate and catch criminals and to have them punished. The criminal or terrorist knows that there is very little chance that he will be caught. They therefore continue to perpetrate their atrocities and eliminate by means of murder any possible witness, knowing that there is then even less of a chance that they will be caught and sentenced. This is a serious state of affairs, and a government that tolerates it and does not do anything about it does not deserve to be called a government.

What is the solution then? Greater financial support by the state and more manpower are required to enable our security forces to find and catch criminals quickly and efficiently. Better co-ordination between South Africa’s security forces is required. The dispute between the police and the Scorpions is totally unacceptable.

The general public has little confidence in the ability of the South African security forces to combat crime. People joke about the police and the burglar in the President’s official residence, which should certainly be the best-guarded residence in the country. Restoring the ability of our security forces to act more efficiently will turn around this negative attitude of the public and ensure their co-operation in obtaining information from them and a contribution by them to resolve the problem - something that is lacking at present.

The FA appeals to the President expeditiously and actively to resolve the problems concerning finances and manpower in the co-ordination of the security forces. The economic cost to the Western Cape and South Africa as a whole is much greater than the saving of the R1 billion or R2 billion that is required to rectify the problems of our security services.

The central Government has a great responsibility to ensure the safety of all the inhabitants of the country, and particularly of the law-abiding citizens, who comprise the overwhelming majority of the population of the country. The responsibility of the Government to ensure the safety of the people of South Africa cannot be cast aside and excused owing to a lack of money. Something must really be done. And I repeat my appeal to the President to intervene and actively change something so that we can stop this. [Applause.]]

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mevrou die Speaker, dit is baie tragies dat die Kaap van Goeie Hoop weer besig is om die Kaap van Storms te word. Dit is duidelik dat stedelike terreur skrikwekkende afmetings aanneem hier waar ons ook almal nou werk en bly, en dit vereis inderdaad ‘n totale aanslag deur alle instansies wat geroep is om hierdie dinge teë te staan.

Ek wil my waardering daarvoor uitspreek dat die debat vandag nie ontaard het in kleinlike politiekery nie, en ek dink elke politieke party het ook ‘n bydrae gelewer tot die oplossing van die probleem. Verder het ek waardering aangesien dit tog vir my lyk of die samewerking tussen die provinsiale regering in die Wes-Kaap en die nasionale sekuriteitsdienste verbeter het. Dit blyk baie beter te wees as ‘n tydjie terug toe ons ‘n debat gehad het oor die taxi- en busgeweld in die Kaap.

Die AEB besef dat dit seker die heel grootste verantwoordelikheid van die staat is om die veiligheid van sy mense te waarborg en dat elke middel moontlik daartoe aangewend moet word. Die vraag is egter of dit nodig is dat ekstra magte aan die staat gegee moet word, of die Grondwet gewysig moet word om dit meer totalitêr te maak? Die AEB se antwoord hierop is nee. Geen wet wat ons in hierdie Parlement goedkeur, gaan maak dat daar vanaand ‘n inhegtenisneming plaasvind nie.

Ons doen ‘n beroep op die Regering om gebruik te maak van die bestaande middele en die bestaande wetgewing en dan die uitvoering daarvan uit te brei. Dit moet optimaal toegepas word en dan sal daar ‘n antwoord hierop kom. Die eerste verantwoordelikheid is om polisiëring en justisie op só vlak te bring dat misdadigers weet hulle sal aan die pen ry. In hierdie verband is die vrylating van 1 000 verhoorafwagtendes die verkeerde sein wat uitgestuur word.

Die Minister is klaarblyklik oortuig dat hy weet wie die skuldiges is. Hoekom is dit dan dat ons nie ‘n inhegtenisneming kry nie? Waar is ons intelligensiedienste? Indien sy vermoede korrek is, wil ek sê die AEB verwerp alle vorme van fundamentalistiese ekstremisme. Indien hierdie ekstremisme religieus begrond is, dan trek die geweldenaars met hulle dade ‘n streep deur alle edele oortuigings wat hulle voorgee om voor te staan. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, it is very tragic that the Cape of Good Hope is once again becoming the Cape of Storms. It is clear that urban terrorism is assuming alarming proportions here where we are all working and living now, and this indeed requires a total onslaught by all the institutions that are called on to oppose these things.

I want to convey my appreciation that the debate today has not degenerated into petty politicking, and I also think that each political party has made a contribution to the solution of this problem. Furthermore I have appreciation, as it appears to me that the co-operation between the provincial government in the Western Cape and the national security services has improved. It appears to be much better than it was a while ago when we had a debate on the taxi and bus violence in the Cape.

The AEB realises that the greatest responsibility of the state is probably to guarantee the safety of its people, and that every possible means at its disposal should be used to this end. The question, however, is whether it is necessary that the state should be given extra powers or whether the Constitution should be amended to render it more totalitarian. The answer of the AEB to this is no. No Act passed by us in this Parliament will ensure that an arrest takes place tonight.

We appeal to the Government to use existing means and existing legislation and then to expand their activities. They should be applied optimally and then there will be a solution to this. The first responsibility is to place policing and justice at such a level that criminals will know that they will be brought to book. In this regard the release of 1 000 awaiting-trial prisoners is the wrong signal to send out.

The Minister is apparently convinced that he knows who the perpetrators are. Why is it then that we do not have arrests? Where are our intelligence services? If his suspicion is correct, I want to say that the AEB rejects all forms of fundamentalist extremism. If this extremism is based on religion, then the perpetrators of the violence, by means of their deeds, cancel out any noble convictions that they are purporting to espouse. [Applause.]]

Mr M A MANGENA: Madam Speaker, the bombs exploding in Cape Town are as deadly as they are mysterious. Why do the perpetrators of these deeds not tell society what its sins are which are punishable by bombing? What are the social or political goals of these bombers? If they are opposed to capitalism or abortion, or homosexuality, or drugs, as some speculators believe, why do they not say so?

In the absence of any explanation from the bombers, are we not entitled to conclude that they are just bloodthirsty and sadistic people who enjoy seeing people bleed and die? What is so peculiar about Cape Town? Are the societal imperfections that the bombers are irritated about only in Cape Town? Will the bombing of the community in Cape Town solve whatever sins our country is guilty of? With the constitutional and political environment as open as it is, where all views and ideas may freely contend, why do the bombers not use the space to propagate their views? Is it possible that we are seeing here an international fanatical fringe group that is playing out its beliefs in our country? The questions are many.

Another important question we need to ask is: Where are the arrests? It is indeed soothing to see the Ministers angrily condemning the bombings, but society is looking up to them to put the perpetrators of wrongdoing behind bars. Are the skills of the intelligence and police people perhaps wanting? Are the bombers too clever for the entire state apparatus in this country? Are there perhaps other problems with our security forces? The bombing mayhem has gone on for long enough. We should by now be seeing some arrests.

The MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Madam Speaker, when the hon Douglas Gibson makes the observation that we are a democracy, we live in a democracy, we have a democratic constitution - in fact one of the most democratic constitutions, and indeed one of the most democratic systems of government anywhere in the world - I agree with the hon member. But, of course, I do not agree with him with regard to the rest.

As a country, we are facing a big problem - the problem of terrorism. One was hoping that for a change this House would not indulge in the usual political banter when discussing a matter of this seriousness. [Interjections.] The hon member may deny that. I am going to ignore him today because the matter is too serious for us even to respond to him.

We are dealing with a very serious matter, and I am happy to say to this House that we are dealing with this problem at ministerial level and are also involving the Democratic Alliance in the Western Cape. We are dealing with the problem, I want to believe, correctly.

We agreed with Hennie Bester that we are actually not going to subject it to the usual political fight between the ANC, the majority party in the country, and the Official Opposition. Instead, we will put our heads together and put all our resources together to fight this scourge. Indeed, the result of that approach began to show itself in the way we were able to grapple with the problem of violence in relation to taxis and buses. Once we did that and once we put our heads together, we were able to identify the perpetrators of the violence against the taxi people. I am not going to speculate about whether or not this has ended. That is not what I am trying to do, but what I am trying to say is that there is virtue in co-operation on matters of this nature.

Once we approached it like that, we were able to find ordinary members of the public who knew something about the violence that we were experiencing as far as the buses and the taxis were concerned. They gave us sufficient information on the basis of which we were able to move against those elements. I want to believe that with us approaching this problem in a similar fashion, we will be able to deal with it much better.

I also want to say that we have identified that, whereas we repealed the provisions of the Internal Security Act of 1982 in 1996, and indeed did so for the right reasons, the truth is that our democracy is being challenged by people who are not interested in using democratic means to impose whatever perspective they hold. They would use any undemocratic means to challenge this order. The question that faces us as this House and indeed as this country is: What do we do then? Do we accept a position where we have basically no law on terrorism, just because we are a democracy, or do we want to join the democratic world which has proper anti-terrorism legislation on their statute books? I personally would want to say that the latter is a correct approach.

I also want to say that it is very interesting that hon members are actually saying that we cannot point an accusing finger at Pagad without evidence. I think we can actually do so because we are not a court of law. We are ordinary observers after all has been said and done. We observe facts. The fact of the matter is: We have run 42 trials involving acts of terror this side of 1997 and virtually all those cases involved members of Pagad, all of them. All of them were confined to this part of our country, Cape Town! It is not even the whole of the Western Cape. It is this city. Indeed, we as this Government have resolved to move quite a lot of resources by way of police, intelligence, etc to the Western Cape and to Cape Town in particular, to pay particular attention to this problem.

I want to say that members must forget about what they read in the newspapers about us fighting amongst ourselves instead of fighting this scourge. The Minister, when he stands up to speak here, is going to confirm that only two weeks ago we set up a joint operations centre involving the Scorpions, the police, the intelligence service and also some people from the army. We would never have been able to establish that if we had not worked together. Present at the meeting where that decision was taken, was none other than Hennie Bester. We work very well together with him. The joint operations centre is working very well.

I may not be in a position to disclose some of the information that we have picked up on these elements, but the picture is much clearer now. We even know the names of some of these elements, but the difficulty that we have is getting the necessary evidence that will bear judicial scrutiny, because without that we are not in a position to prove our case beyond reasonable doubt. So, indeed, it behoves us as this House and as political leaders to call upon our people, who surely are in possession of the necessary and critical information, to come forward, to trust us, to rely on us, and to give us this information, as they did with regard to the violence in respect of taxis and buses. Once they do so we will be able to use this information. We will be able to use it effectively and get these elements.

We know, for instance, that indeed some of them have even been involved in robberies to finance these activities of theirs. We will catch up with them. We also know - it has been established by the police - that the motor vehicle that was used in the assassination of the magistrate, whom we are burying tomorrow, was subsequently used to explode a car bomb. These are the things that we are looking at. We are basically following certain leads and we will catch up with these elements.

However, I do not think that it is proper for any one of us to come and stand here and seek to lambaste Government, as though the problems that we are identifying in the criminal justice system are new. These problems are very old. They were there long before some of us experienced the vote. These hon members, who are now pretending that this was not the case, lived with these problems. They lived with the grossly underpaid police officers and, may I say, they lived very comfortably with the black police officer who was the lowliest paid merely because he was black, and they never asked any questions about this. But today they come and say: ``Do this, do that!’’

I would want to believe that one day they will have to stand up and say this is what they themselves would want to do together with us, as does Hennie Bester of the DA, to resolve these problems. We are dealing with a small minority of people who are hellbent on wreaking havoc upon our beautiful City of Cape Town, and we can deal with them.

Of course, I would want to address myself to one element. Some of the people who spoke here know what I am talking about. Not so long ago they were marching behind the banner of Qibla. Qibla is at the core of G-force. Qibla is at the core of this violence. Those hon members are now pretending that they do not know this. Instead, they are challenging us to prove what we are saying. Certainly, because they know some of the Qibla elements in G- Force, they should come out and say: ``We know it is so-and-so.’’ Who does not know that Patricia de Lille was once very close to Qibla? [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development for his parting shot to hon Patricia de Lille. Indeed, what he says about her association with the Pagad group is something that I would have liked to touch on at greater length. However, that is not the issue. The issue is that we are debating a very serious matter that is confronting the people of the city of Cape Town. We are not even talking about the Western Cape as a whole here. It is an issue that demands of us to be sober when analysing it and trying to provide assistance to the security organs that are dealing with the problem.

It is useless to shout at us here, saying that we should not be making inflammatory statements while not shouting at the people who are making dangerous and inflammatory statements, precisely because at one time we saw them as our friends and associates. The Minister for Justice and I have committed extensive resources to rooting out these terrorists. It is not an easy matter. We as South Africans have experience of this. The hon Boy Geldenhuys should not talk as if he has all of a sudden descended from Mars and sat where he is sitting right now. [Laughter.] He is a South African and he knows the history of this country. He knows exactly what problems we and this Parliament have to contend with.

We must not pretend that these things are easy and that they are going to be solved overnight, nor must we agitate one another here by saying that the police are not at all in control of the situation. We would not be sitting in this Assembly right now if the police were not on top of the situation. It is not our responsibility as elected representatives to be in the habit - time and again, whenever we get an opportunity - of demoralising the police by talking about things that have nothing to do with what we are discussing here, and trying to transmit a message to the police that they have a reason to be disgruntled with their work and even with the Government, etc. That is not statespersonlike at all.

We should try to ensure that the security forces are properly motivated to do their work. If there are any issues that one wants to raise with the relevant Ministers, our doors are open. It is quite true what the hon Gibson is saying here, that we are beginning, for the first time, to strike a note of accord with the Western Cape government through Hennie Bester. This is no secret. We are telephoning one another. The three of us are in touch on a daily basis. He is offering constructive ideas about how we should be dealing with this matter, unlike the noise that was being made from this podium by some of the people here. [Laughter.]

We know that we have experience of this in this country; the British have experience with the IRA, and other people have their own experiences too. I want to tell Rev Meshoe that we must sit as politicians and do research. His own people are marching and stripping naked in front of the Union Buildings, and he never said a word about that. [Interjections.] That is an example of lawlessness. He sits and smiles here and pretends not to know about these things. [Laughter.] It is not an easy matter. It will only be solved by painstaking and meticulous detective work and by the collection and analysis of intelligence. We have in place very good people in the SA Police Service, the Scorpions, the Investigative Directorate on Organised Crime and our intelligence agencies to do exactly that, and to flush out these terrorists in our midst.

Yesterday I sat in unison with all these security organs. They are planning their strategies even as I speak. They are in meetings. The Minister has said here that there is a joint operational structure that is in place, involving everybody else. So it is just thumbsucking to say that things are in disarray, etc. The hon member does not know what he is talking about. He merely talks because he knows that there is a TV broadcast that will convey his speech to the crowd outside. [Laughter.]

We will uncover and prosecute those who are responsible for the urban terror. But we must also remove the sea in which they swim as a nation, and as the Muslim community in Cape Town in particular. We must isolate and expose these terrorists. We must never allow them to regroup amongst themselves. We must never allow them to mobilise the broader Muslim community, precisely because they remain terrorists while using Islam as a front for their cowardly activities and bringing the name of a great religion into disrepute. [Applause.]

The overwhelming majority of Muslims are law-abiding citizens, some of whom struggled and died in the struggle against apartheid. Pagad is a small minority of Muslims who have terrorised Muslim business people, religious leaders, politicians and academics. They are not idealists. They are terrorists, pure and simple.

We know it is not easy for the community to expose them because they do not hesitate to intimidate, to extort and even to murder witnesses. Already, witnesses have been murdered in the cases of F Felix, Ebrahim Jenneker, Fadiel Orrie, Haroon Orrie and Faizel Waggie. In Jenneker’s case, a number of judges had to be withdrawn because of the death of witnesses. Of course, these dastardly deeds can only help to inspire the SA Police and the National Directorate of Public Prosecution to work even harder to annihilate this scourge.

I want to state clearly that we know a lot about these people involved in this urban terror. We know who the leaders are, we know who provides the resources and we know who carries out these acts of urban terror. They are organised into small cells to make it hard for us to obtain information, but we have, nonetheless, obtained the information and we are now converting it into evidence which will enable us to successfully prosecute them. The police are on top of the situation. I repeat that, and there are no apologies to that hon member.

Pagad has repeatedly ducked and dived in order to avoid having to disown and condemn these people and their actions. Why will Pagad not say, clearly, that it is against urban terror and that it unambiguously disowns those who have been found guilty of terrorism or the possession of explosives? Why will Pagad not say, clearly, that it will discipline and expel anybody who is guilty of urban terror?

I want to review for you the cases in which people who are known to be Pagad members or associates, have been convicted, because there is this nagging question here: Why point fingers at Pagad? Where should we point them when all evidence points in that direction? Some people have even been at pains to try to convince me that there could be an element of right-wing involvement here, which is utter nonsense. I am not even prepared to listen to those things. Some, like this member who was speaking here, are saying that it is the gangs that are bombing Cape Town. It is a distraction. They are taking us away, for whatever reason, from where the proper focus should be - on the people who are actually involved in bombing Cape Town.

There is nothing in the information that we have, in all the intelligence that we have gathered, that points in the direction that gangs have been involved in this urban terror. Absolutely nothing. If you read the literature that is easily available, even outside this Parliament, you will get to know who is involved. It is even on the Internet; you are right.

Dawood Osman was sentenced to 20 years for each of four counts of murder and six years for each of two counts of attempted murder. He is a member of Pagad. He is in C-max in Pretoria right now. Do not ask the question as to why the Pagad people are not being arrested. There is Dawood. What is wrong with you, Boy? [Laughter.]

Petersen and Williams were sentenced to 24 years for armed robbery and murder. Pagad. Abrahams, Kamaldien and Bester were sentenced to five years for the possession of an explosive device. It is Pagad, and they have appealed. Nasieg Petersen was sentenced to eight years for attempted murder. That is Pagad. Shaik was found guilty of the possession of an explosive device and was sentenced to seven years imprisonment. That is Pagad. M Fakier was sentenced to 18 months for escaping from custody. That is Pagad. Hendricks, Fakier, Kariem, Zainab and Nel have been found guilty of the unlawful possession of firearms and ammunition. That is Pagad. In addition, there are more than 70 cases in progress or pending against Pagad members and/or associates.

It cannot be a coincidence that so many Pagad members have been convicted or charged in connection with urban terror. It cannot be a coincidence that Pagad refuses to condemn urban terror and to expel its members who have been convicted thereof. Why can they not say: ``Here are our members convicted of terror, of murder, of extortion. We are stripping them of membership of this organisation which does not believe in the exercise of violence to advance its ideology.’’ Why do they not do that and get a representative here to plead on their behalf?

HON MEMBERS: Why? Why? The MINISTER: People or groups linked to it have made very inflammatory statements.

The hon member De Lille is not worried about this. Salie Abader said the Western Cape would be made ungovernable. That is what he said last year when Tony Blair was here. She is not worried about that, it is not an inflammatory statement.

Pagad supporters have called for: ``One bullet, one prosecutor. One bullet, one policeman.’’ That is not an inflammatory statement?

Mr D H M GIBSON: Sounds like Stanley Mogoba.

The MINISTER: Yes, you are right, Dougie. [Laughter.]

Speakers have referred to this Government as satanic and ungodly. Some newspapers circulated in the Muslim community have made very inflammatory statements. For instance, the newsletter of the Islamic Unity Convention and Radio 786 have acted as mouthpieces of Pagad. The IUC newsletter in 1997 glorified martyrdom and it has carried a photograph of suicide bombers as martyrs. I want to say, again, that the people who are carrying out urban terror are extremists, and that they themselves are apostles of Satan. They do not represent the views of anyone, other than a small and very tiny minority. They are outsiders even in their own neighbourhoods, and they survive through intimidation and murder. They are ungodly because they think nothing of murdering and injuring innocent people.

Pagad must come clean. Either it is for democracy or against it, either it is for urban terror or against it. The overwhelming evidence at present shows clearly that Pagad is for urban terror and against democracy, and, collectively, we shall crush them. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Motion agreed to.

CONSIDERATION OF SEVENTH REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC ACCOUNTS

Order disposed of without debate.

Report adopted.

               ADULT BASIC EDUCATION AND TRAINING BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Speaker, hon members, I am delighted to introduce the Adult Basic Education and Training Bill for debate. By bringing this Bill to this House, the ANC gives effect to the letter of the Constitution and continues its programme of entrenching the legislative and policy environment for post-apartheid socioeconomic reconstruction and development.

It is a delightful occurrence that we debate this Bill three days after celebrating International Literacy Day and reviewing our progress towards achieving greater adult literacy. Let me digress a little and refer to how the Angolan poet Antonio Jacinto depicts a contract worker who tells his love about the kind of letter he wants to write to her. This is what he wrote:

I wanted to write you a letter, my love A letter of intimate secrets, A letter of memories of you, of you. Your lips as red as tacula fruit Your hair black as the diloa fish Your eyes as gentle as the macongue Your breasts hard as young maboque fruit Your light walk, Your caresses Better than any that I find here.

The poem ends with the lines:

I wanted to write you a letter, But, my love, I do no know why it is, Why, why, why it is, my love, But you can’t read, and I - oh, the hopelessness - I can’t write.

Those lines capture better than any scientific research the poignancy and the inhumanity of illiteracy. The saying goes that that a country that does not invest in its children has no future. Likewise, a nation that does not invest in its adults faces the spectre of poverty, stagnation and hopelessness. The oppressor government and its private sector made little or no investment in the education of our adult population. Let me elaborate on the challenges facing a section of our adult compatriots.

There are 3,2 million people who have never entered a learning institution. They are effectively illiterate with the written words of our Constitution, legislation and policy papers remaining mere symbols with little meaning for them. About 9,4 million have not completed the equivalent of nine years of schooling. These compatriots are functionally illiterate and so most of them are unemployed and lead survivalist, hopeless and undignified lives on the margins of our society.

The participation rates at our 2 226 Abet centres stand at 294 000, with only one in three adult learners getting basic education and training. This suggests that we are not innovative in social mobilisation and recruitment. Current provision by Government and its social partners should be co- ordinated, with repetition and drop-out rates being reduced. This must impact positively on adult learners’ lives and be delivered appropriately.

Changes in the workplace and the creation, though slow, of jobs have critical implications for the transformed Abet system, which we will continue to develop in terms of this Bill. As we have said on many occasions before, successful economies require the elimination of artificial hierarchies in the management of work and in the way in which learning is organised and certified. They require citizens with a strong foundation of general education and the desire to continue learning, to adapt to and develop new knowledge, skills and technologies; to move flexibly between occupations; to take responsibility for personal performance; to set and achieve high standards; and to work co-operatively.

Given the new realities of the global economy, the low skills profile of our people is jeopardising our own economic prospects and is stifling the new energies we need to develop our country and provide for the basic needs of all our people. It also has dramatic implications for the employability of many of our citizens, especially if one factors in the technological illiteracy among even those of us who are otherwise quite literate. Now we are, of course, not suggesting that the Government, acting on its own, can create demands for skills or jobs, although through its economic development and empowerment initiatives it will provide the learning- earning nexus for the development of key skills and the creation of jobs. It is only when it acts in concert with all the social partners that Government can successfully meet the skills development and employment creation challenge.

We are confident that the national board for Abet, and similar provincial advisory bodies, will enable the Government to work successfully alongside its social partners to identify strategic priorities and develop relevant programmes. The Bill also recognises that collaboration on human resources development between the Ministries of Education and Labour, in particular with the Skills Development Act of the Ministry of Labour, is critical for comprehensive human resources development, with Abet featuring strongly.

In 1998 the Department of Education embarked upon a five-year plan to develop the structure, systems and capacity of the public adult learning centres to respond to the challenge of adult illiteracy and to upscale provision in these centres to a mass level of 2,5 million by 2001. The first objective has seen us, nationally and provincially, achieving our objectives of relatively small increases in learner enrolments. We have developed a curriculum framework and unit standards within the NQF that will provide linkages to further education and training and on-the-job training. We also have the introduction of learner support materials enhancing practitioner’s standards and establishing and transforming current providers into a network of adult learning centres. On the second objective, we are steadily gathering momentum.

The Ministry has identified the breaking of the back of illiteracy as a priority, and now seeks to accelerate its work through collaboration with all spheres of our society. The Abet Bill will provide the legislative framework to advance our constitutional obligations, outlined in section 29 (1) (a) of the Constitution, recognising every person’s right to Abet. The Bill provides for the establishment of public adult learning centres and the registration of public and private adult learning centres. It targets the quality of education and governance at these centres. The introduction of the Bill follows an intensive process of research and consultation initially led by the Department of Education, and latterly by the education portfolio committee.

The Bill builds upon policies put in place by the Ministry, including the interim guidelines of Abet provisioning, Abet policy, the multiyear implementation plan for adult education and training, and the implementation of Tirisano 2000, in particular the programme on illiteracy. The Bill obliges the head of department to provide facilities for public adult learning centres to perform their functions. Should no facilities be available, the head is required to ask the governing body of a public school or FET institution to allow the reasonable use of the facilities by the adult centres. Naturally the 28 500 schools and 152 technical colleges provide ready facilities.

I call on this esteemed House to once more send a resounding message to our country that the era of cheap and unskilled labour, of a lifetime of low- skill occupations, of poor quality curricula and qualifications by public and private providers will be replaced by life-long learning of high performance, high quality, relevant curricula, and qualifications which will offer new pathways to higher education. We have promised a better life for all. With the passage of this Bill, we will take another step in this direction. I therefore commend the Adult Basic Education and Training Bill to the National Assembly. [Applause.]

Prof S M MAYATULA: Chairperson and hon members, allow me to thank members of the Portfolio Committee on Education, who, at a short notice, left their constituencies and returned to Parliament to consider three Bills.

I would also like to pay tribute to the many stakeholders who presented their views before the portfolio committee. I would like to assure them that we did all in our power to accommodate their inputs.

My brief this afternoon is to present to hon members the Adult Basic Education and Training Bill. As a product of a night school, I am more than happy to oblige. My colleagues who will follow on me will go through the individual clauses with a fine-tooth comb.

In order to motivate the 3,5 million people who are literally illiterate and for whom this Bill is being tabled, allow me to share a short story. When I attained my junior certificate my parents could not afford to send me to high school. I was sent to a night school at the Rotary Hall in Umtata. Classes for adults started from Grade 1 and went on to Grade 12. They were conducted in the same hall. The rest is history. Unfortunately, adult basic education has been a Cinderella section in the Education department, without any clear legal basis for its establishment or funding. This is despite the constitutional prerogative in section 29(1), which states:

Everyone has the right -

 (a)    to a basic education, including adult basic education; and


 (b)    to further education, which the state, through reasonable
     measures, must make progressively available and accessible.

When I was a member of the executive council for education in the Eastern Cape my department ran out of funds in the 1998-99 financial year. One of the programmes that I was ready to close down was Abet, because I had no contractual obligations in terms of this section. As a result of such experiences, during the public hearings many stakeholders proposed that adult basic education and training should be funded through the national Department of Education, forgetting that basic education is a provincial competence, as will be shown below. Fortunately, when this Bill becomes law, Abet programmes will never again be taken for granted.

Regarding the provision of facilities, clause 4(1) states in no uncertain terms that:

The Head of Department must provide facilities for use by the public centre to perform its functions in terms of this Act.

Chapter 3 deals with the governance of public centres, including the election of members of the governing body and their functions. Clause 12 of this chapter addresses the issue of staff employed by the state at public centres, thus preventing any MEC from taking them for granted. Clause 16(1) reads, and I quote:

Necessary expenses incurred by a member of a governing body in the performance of his or her functions may be reimbursed by the governing body.

This relates to when a member travels to functions related to the governing body. Clause 16(2) goes on to say:

No member of a governing body may be remunerated in any way for the performance of his or her functions.

Being a member of a governing body should be regarded as an honour and a privilege to serve one’s community, and not a job for any form of personal gain or pay. To those who make such contributions and commitments, Henry Wiechers had this to say:

There was never a person who did anything worth doing that did not receive more than he gave.

In order to uphold democratic principles and full participation by all sectors in the centre, clause 19(1) states that:

A representative council of learners must be established at every public centre.

The responsibility of the state towards funding of public centres is contained in clause 21(1) which says:

The Member of the Executive Council must from money appropriated for this purpose by the provincial legislature fund public adult basic education and training on a fair, equitable and transparent basis.

That does indicate that the funding of basic education is a provincial competence, hence it cannot be taken to the national department. This being a free and democratic country, any person may, at his or her own cost, establish and maintain a private centre, provided that such a centre is registered by the head of department. Chapter six deals with quality assurance and promotion in adult basic education and training to protect learners against the vagaries of the free market and to maintain high educational standards.

I would like to request hon members not only to approve this Bill, but also to see to it that copies of the final Act are distributed to all the Abet centres in their constituencies, so as to empower our people. Many a piece of fine legislation has passed through this House, but has not reached the people on the ground. Let us not allow that to happen to this Bill. Let our people know that they have a right to access adult basic education, and that this Government is committed to bringing light to all those who are in darkness through illiteracy. [Applause.] The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! The following member is going to deliver his maiden speech. He is the hon Mr Jankielsohn. [Applause.]

Mr R JANKIELSOHN: Mr Chairman, hon Deputy Minister, hon members, the results of our divided and discriminatory education system of the past are evident in the fact that 16% of South Africans over the age of 20 who are from previously disadvantaged communities have no formal education, and 75% do not have a Grade 12 education. This greatly hinders their ability to function effectively in society. Besides the limitations in terms of employment opportunities, they are often unable to carry out basic tasks such as completing applications for pensions, identity documents, passports and even voter registration forms.

This Bill is long overdue. A developing country such as our own can only benefit from such a Bill. In addition to benefits such as personal fulfilment to the individual, the benefits to the nation as result of improved literacy levels are undeniable. In this respect, various studies carried out by the World Bank have found the following: Returns on an extra year of primary school education are as high as 33% for the self-employed; farmers with four years of basic education produce, on average, about 8% more than farmers with no education; parents with a primary school education are more likely to learn about and implement improved health, hygiene and nutritional practices and one additional year of schooling for a mother results in a reduction of 9 per 1000 in child and infant mortality.

However, opportunities for many South Africans to learn to read and write have been few and far between. Until now, adult education in South Africa has been a marginal activity carried out by a few private companies and NGOs with little state support. A developing society such as our own can ill afford to disregard the importance of providing for the education of adults.

In the fast-changing global arena, the demand for adult education is, however, accompanied by the demand for skills development. We hope that both the private and public centres that are set up for the purposes of adult education take cognisance of the fact that, if we are going to succeed in this great task, literacy programmes should be accompanied by the necessary development of skills according to the preferences of the individual and the demands of our society. In our view, an adult needs to develop three basic areas in order to function in and contribute to society. These are communication skills and general knowledge that include literacy, numeracy and general civic and cultural knowledge; life skills such as hygiene practices, sanitation and family planning and production skills that may enable an individual to earn an income.

If this Bill is going to contribute to this, then it would have to be accompanied by the following. Firstly, we need libraries. Literacy programmes in other countries have only proved successful where people have had access to reading material in their own language. Tanzania, for example, built nearly 3 000 libraries in rural areas to assist with their adult learning programmes.

Secondly, we have to have finances. The Bill expects the provinces, most of which are unable to cope with the current educational demands, to pick up the tab for adult education centres. As a result of the additional financial demands of such centres, even though school and other public premises are to be used for these purposes, we foresee that few provinces will commit themselves to such an additional burden.

Thirdly, we need to improve the state of our schooling. I taught at a tertiary institution for seven years, and found that many of the products that we received from schools were illiterate. Many students do not have the necessary skills to read, understand and interpret basic first year- texts. These centres of adult education should assist in the improvement of literacy in the short term, but in the long term, the schools must carry out their tasks more effectively so that they produce adults who already have a basic education.

Fourthly, adult education has to be a partnership between Government and the private sector. The Government has infrastructure and educators on its payroll, while the private sector has the knowledge regarding the type of skills required in an ever-transforming society and the ability to supply opportunities.

In closing, we hope that this Bill, which is very rigid in structure, will in fact be implemented. However, the provinces - with their limited financial and institutional capacities - will need the guidance and assistance of national Government to carry it out. During his budget speech, the Minister mentioned that he would create a literacy agency. We are curious about the progress of this agency, and its role in implementing this Bill. The DP supports this Bill. [Applause.]

Mr B M DOUGLAS: Chairperson, hon members, I do not wish to bore the House with statistics. Neither do I want to be repetitive nor flippant by returning to content matter that was ventilated by myself and others during the contributions that we made on World Literacy Day regarding Abet, but I want to rather focus on the progressive and sound intentions of this Bill. Our esteemed Minister Asmal said not so long ago, and I quote:

We should break the back of illiteracy in five years as a priority in the implementation of Tirisano.

The Adult Basic Education and Training Bill is on course - I do not wish to sound as though I am on another side - and in line with section 29 of the Bill of Rights that affirms the right to basic education.

Dissection or an autopsy of the aforementioned Bill, with particular emphasis on clauses 3 and 4 of the Bill, highlights the imperative for the establishment of facilities for the use of the public to perform its functions in terms of this Act. Whether it takes into account the many dilapidated or sometimes uninhabitable conditions and monetary constraints to effect this task financially, and to make the classic didactical situation achievable, depends as much on the state as on private funding and the community. I find myself, unfortunately, in a position where I effect Abet voluntarily in the evenings, and I am talking from experience, as I stand here in the House.

Clauses 7 to 11 are in line with one of the nine priorities of Tirisano in terms of which schools must become centres of community life, and which deals with the appointment of governing bodies and their functions in line with section 20 of the South African Schools Act. This makes it possible for school governing bodies in Abet centres to operate in the same way as those in ordinary schools, which is commendable.

Clause 13 deserves special appreciation for it provides for introductory and continued training for newly elected Abet school governing bodies, which, in most cases, lack the skills and expertise necessary to deal with the level of work and responsibility expected of them, especially in poor communities, where the need is the greatest. In the event of a nonperforming school governing body, the head of department has the authority to appoint one or more persons. It is therefore also very important that the appointees have the confidence of the community and that the appointees possess the skills required, as well as being able to carry out the most important aspect of the job - that of managing the budget mentioned in clause 21, which makes provision for the MEC to fund public adult basic education. The budget might become a casuality in the process if mismanagement rears its ugly head. We read sometimes in the newspapers about this happening.

With regard to the question of private institutional funding there are unscrupulous private institutions operating in the country right now and it is important that MECs have access to records of all private institutions, in order for them to be able to differentiate between registered institutions and others, so as to give effect to clause 31 of the Bill.

In conclusion, the regulation of adult basic education and training institutions is a step towards the eradication of illiteracy in the country. In addition, it is also a yardstick to measure the accountability of these Abet centres and the quality of programmes they offer, as well as the certification of the learners, which deserves to be supported.

Mnr J SCHIPPERS: Mnr die Voorsitter, agb lede, dit is vir my ‘n besondere eer om u toe te spreek in hierdie wêreldberoemde demokratiese instelling.

Die wetsontwerp wat tans voor die Huis dien, is basies ‘n goeie stuk wetgewing. Die meeste organisasies wat voorleggings aan die portefeuljekomitee gedoen het, was van mening dat die wetsontwerp nodig is en op ‘n geleë tyd gekom het om doeltreffende beheer oor en befondsing van onderwys en opleiding vir volwassenes uit te oefen.

Daar is egter ook ‘n wye reeks opbouende kritiek en aanbevelings voorgelê ten einde die wetsontwerp effektief te maak. Van die kritiek en aanbevelings het gehandel oor die definisies in die wetsontwerp en teenstrydighede tussen klousules, en nog ander instansies voel dat die voorgestelde leersentrums oorbodig is aangesien daar baie tegniese kolleges bestaan wat vir hierdie doeleindes benut kan word.

Dit is bemoedigend dat baie van hierdie aanbevelings tog in die wetsontwerp opgeneem is. As in gedagte gehou word dat 3 283 290 volwassenes tussen die ouderdomme van 16 en 65 jaar geen formele skoolopleiding ontvang het nie en 9 439 244 inwoners van hierdie land slegs graad nege, die ou standerd sewe, voltooi het, het hierdie wetsontwerp seker op ‘n gepaste tyd gekom.

Die voorgenoemde wetgewing kan daartoe bydra dat hierdie ongeletterdheidspeil en ongeskooldheid van die arbeidsmag in ons land in die volgende dekades afgeskaal en selfs uitgewis kan word. Daarby gee die wetsontwerp ook uitvoering aan artikel 29 van die Grondwet wat lui dat elke individu van hierdie land die reg het, selfs die volwassenes, tot basiese onderwys en opleiding.

Volgens die Adult Educators and Trainers Association of South Africa is die wetsontwerp slegs die vertrekpunt om alle ongelykhede wat opgebou is, uit te wis. Hulle grootste kommer is egter dat die rol van die staat in die proses oorbeklemtoon word en sodoende die vrywillige en ontwikkelende aard van Abet sal afstomp en siviele nie-regeringsorganisasies se betrokkenheid sal afskaal. Naptosa voel dat baie van hierdie Abet-opvoeders ingevolge die wetsontwerp slegs ‘n geringe kans het om aangestel te word. Hulle beveel aan dat die Wet op die Indiensneming van Opvoeders van 1998 aangepas word om diesulkes te akkommodeer.

Ingevolge klousule 11(3) van die wetsontwerp, mag ‘n Abet-leersentrum slegs ‘n opvoeder in diens neem indien hy of sy by die Raad vir Opvoeders geregistreer is. Die werwing van Abet-opvoeders moet fokus op ongekwalifiseerde geregistreerde werklose opvoeders wat so ‘n inkomste broodnodig het.

‘n Groot probleemarea is egter die vestiging van hierdie Abet-leersentrums in die platteland. Volgens die Wes-Kaapse onderwysdepartement is die seisoenale aard van die werkers se inkomste op die platteland ‘n groot probleem. Volwassenes wat hierdeur geraak word, is die plaaswerkers, diepseeduikers en vissermanne en -vroue. Hulle inkomste is van só ‘n aard dat hulle finansieel nie ‘n bydrae kán maak nie. Tweedens is die bevolkingsdigtheid van sekere streke ‘n ander oorweging. Afgeleë plattelandse gebiede soos die Karoo en die Noord-Kaap is groot, en volwassenes moet groot afstande aflê en onkostes aangaan om die Abet- leersentrums vir onderwys en opleiding te besoek. Derdens tap die arbeidsintensiewe bedrywe soos mynbou en landbou die fisieke energie van werkers, wat moegheid tot gevolg het. Dit bring lae konsentrasievermoë en gevolglik swak uitslae mee, wat ontmoedigend van aard kan wees. Daar sal dringend aandag geskenk moet word aan dié probleme.

Soos ek in my inleiding opgemerk het, is dit basies ‘n goeie wetsontwerp en die Nuwe NP steun dit. [Tussenwerpsels.] [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr J SCHIPPERS: Mr Chairperson, hon members, it is a great honour for me to address you in this world-famous democratic institution.

The Bill at present before the House is basically a good piece of legislation. Most of the organisations which made submissions to the portfolio committee were of the opinion that the Bill was necessary and had come at an appropriate time to exercise effective control over and funding of education and training for adults.

However, a wide range of constructive criticism and recommendations were submitted in order to make the Bill effective. Some of the criticism and recommendations dealt with the definitions in the Bill and contradictions between clauses, and other institutions felt that the proposed learning centres were unnecessary because many technical colleges exist which can be utilised for these purposes.

It is encouraging that many of these recommendations were in fact incorporated in the Bill. When it is taken into consideration that 3 283 290 adults between the ages of 16 and 65 years have received no formal school education and 9 439 244 inhabitants of this country have only completed grade nine, the old standard seven, this Bill has certainly come at an appropriate time.

The proposed legislation can contribute towards scaling down and even eliminating this level of illiteracy and lack of skills in the labour force in our country in the coming decades. In addition the Bill also implements section 29 of the Constitution, which states that everyone in this country, including adults, has the right to basic education and training.

According to the Adult Educators and Trainers Association of South Africa the Bill is only the starting point to address all inequalities which have developed. Their greatest concern, however, is that the role of the state is being overemphasised in the process and in this way the voluntary and developing nature of Abet will be blunted and the involvement of civil non- governmental organisations will be scaled down. Naptosa feels that in terms of the Bill many of these Abet educators will only have a slight chance of being appointed. They recommend that the Employment of Educators Act of 1998 be amended to accommodate such educators.

In terms of clause 11(3) of the Bill an Abet learning centre may only employ an educator if he or she is registered with the SA Council for Educators. The recruitment of Abet educators must focus on unqualified registered unemployed educators who desperately need such an income.

However, a big problem area is the establishment of these Abet learning centres in the rural areas. According to the Western Cape department of education the seasonal nature of the income of workers in the rural areas is a big problem. Adults affected by this are farmworkers, deep-sea divers and fishermen and women. Their income is of such a nature that financially they cannot make a contribution.

Secondly, the population density of certain regions is another consideration. Remote rural areas such as the Karoo and the Northern Cape are vast, and adults must travel long distances and incur expenses to attend the Abet learning centres for education and training. Thirdly, the labour-intensive industries such as mining and agriculture physically sap the energy of workers, which leads to exhaustion. This results in a lack of concentration and consequent poor results, which can be discouraging. Attention will have to be given to these problems as a matter of urgency.

As I mentioned in my introduction, this is basically a good Bill and the New NP supports it. [Interjections.] [Applause.]]

Mr S J DE BEER: Chairperson, the UDM will support this Bill. The need identified by the Minister of Education to regulate adult basic education and training centres as institutions distinct from other institutions of education is fully supported by the UDM. It is crucial for the future of South Africa that it is made possible for the almost 13 million illiterate and half-literate adults to complete a general level of education. Can we say, however, that to our mind too many Bills with good intentions are nowadays being passed by Parliament without being properly implemented. The continual monitoring of the implications of the regulations by the appropriate provincial officials is therefore of the utmost importance.

The funding of the Abet programme from money appropriated for this purpose by provincial legislatures is of great concern. Some provinces, as some of us have already experienced in our visits to certain remote areas, are at the moment struggling to provide effective mainstream education, and whether they will be able to handle this additional and most important responsibility remains to be seen. We sincerely hope and pray that this Bill will open the doors of literacy and knowledge for the millions of people who are starving for this opportunity. We support this Bill and we wish the department every success in implementing it.

Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, hon Ministers and members, the importance of adult basic education must be seen as an attempt by society to lift its social responsibility profile with a view to generate a more secure future in times to come. To deny anyone the right to a meaningful education is inhumane and harmful to the value systems of our society. The test of a democracy is the ability of a nation to educate its people to own the processes of development and growth. We are all aware that the lack of education gives rise to all forms of social dysfunctional behaviour. It may lead to loss of opportunity and unemployment, and it definitely has an impact on our economic growth.

The Minister of Education stated in a speech last year that the illiteracy level in this country is about 40%, and this is a serious concern. With the introduction of this Bill, it is hoped that at least 1 million new learners can be reached within the next few years. The Bill provides for both public and private centres to be established to run Abet courses. The intention of this Bill is commendable and we therefore support it. The Bill, however, does not go far enough to create an urgency about the importance of Abet programmes as a national priority. In clause 21, for instance, we note that provinces may or may not, depending on circumstances, be obliged to fund Abet programmes.

Budgetary pressures on provincial departments have resulted in either the closing down or cutting back of Abet programmes. The church also has a vital role to play in assisting Abet, by using literacy programmes to educate their nonliterate members.

With these few words, we support the Bill.

Mrs M A A NJOBE: Chairperson, many learners who protested against Bantu Education in the mid-70s and in the 80s never had the opportunity to return to school, so they missed attaining any educational levels. Naturally, many of them have reverted either to semiliteracy or to complete illiteracy, thus adding to the already high statistics and unacceptable levels of illiteracy in our country, which, by virtue of the society we inherited from the apartheid era, affects mostly the black people. Now, faced with this situation, the ANC-led Government cannot sit and despair, is determined to transform our society by providing, among other things, lifelong learning with the attainment of lifelong skills.

The legislation under discussion today is only a beginning, to ensure that this dream does, in fact, come true. This legislation regulates and reorganises the provision of quality adult basic education and training in our country. To achieve this, heavy responsibility is placed on the MEC for education, the head of the department in the province and the governing body of an adult basic education and training public centre. This ensures close monitoring, effective management and efficient skills governance.

Built into the various clauses of the Bill are empowerment mechanisms enabling the MEC, the head of the department and the governing body to perform this important task, ensuring that the enormous number of our people who do not have education are not denied their right to basic education. The responsibility to establish a public centre for adult basic education in a province rests with the MEC. Correctly so, because the MEC, being familiar with and aware of the needs of the province, is in a better position to prioritise where such a centre may be located. Provision is made for a public centre occupying immovable state-owned property to have the right to use such property for educational purposes. To guard against improper use of such property, the head of department has the power to restrict that right. At the same time, the Bill allows for flexibility and public participation in decision-making regarding the centre. For example, before restricting the right which I have just referred to, the head of department must inform the governing body of his or her intention, giving the governing body reasonable opportunity to make representations, and duly consider such representations before acting.

It is one thing for the MEC to provide accommodation, but if there are no facilities for learning, adult basic education centres will be ineffective. Thus the head of the department has the responsibility to provide facilities for use by the public centre. In some cases, such facilities may be the same as those that are used by a public school. In that case, the Bill clearly sets out conditions in terms of which the head of the department has to enter into an agreement with the school’s governing body concerning the time schedule, the sharing of resources, maintenance, improvement of facilities, access, security, and so on. Should a need to merge two or more centres arise, this must be done in a transparent and democratic way by the MEC, among other things, by giving notice in the provincial Gazette, sending written notices to the centres affected, and so on. Under certain circumstances, it may be necessary to close down a public centre. In that case, too, the MEC is required, in terms of clause 6, to exercise transparency and accountability, and to ensure that the affected public exercises its democratic right to be heard.

Assets and liabilities of such a centre must be dealt with in accordance with the law. The Bill provides for the management of the centre by a centre manager appointed by and responsible to the head of the department. Each centre is governed by a governing body composed of representatives elected from educators, learners and members of staff. The elected members must co-opt members from the community. Such co-opted members have the right to vote. This is necessary to ensure full participation of the local community in the governance of a public centre.

If the public centre is accommodated in a public school, either the school principal or a member of the school’s governing body must be co-opted into the centre’s governing body. This ensures a strong link between the two governing bodies and augurs well for good working relationships. However, such a co-opted member has no right to vote.

With regard to the term of office of members of the governing body, the size, the disqualification and removal of members, the filling of vacancies, all these and other related matters are determined by the MEC. The Bill also lists in detail the functions of the governing bodies. Unfortunately, I cannot mention all of them. They are too many to mention, but I would encourage the members to look at this Bill and become familiar with it because all of us have a duty to ensure its implementation. One of the functions of the governing body is to strive to ensure the centre’s development through providing quality education for all learners.

Clause 13 of the Bill provides for capacity-building for newly elected governing bodies, to enable them to perform their functions well. Funds for this purpose must be provided for by the legislature. In addition, there has to be continuing training for all other governing bodies to ensure their effective performance and ability to take up additional functions. And, therefore, in my opinion, the UDM should not worry, because this has been catered for. The governing bodies are going to be strengthened through the various training programmes.

With all these and other mechanisms set out in the Bill in addition to all the checks and balances, the dream to provide our people with lifelong skills and to wipe out illiteracy in our country will, indeed, become a reality. The ANC has no problem with this Bill. Even the amendments we made were merely technical amendments. [Applause.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson and hon members, the right to basic education is enshrined in our Constitution. This Bill seeks to clarify ways and means in which adult education centres may be established, controlled and maintained.

Education, after all, makes people easy to lead, but difficult to drive. It makes them easy to govern, but impossible to enslave. For that reason, efforts have to be made to educate our people regardless of age.

Adult education centres may be established and registered with the department of education in each province. And once registered, such centres must perform as expected of them. Similarly, heads of department and the MEC in the relevant provinces also have to do what is expected of them, that is, they have to provide the ideal atmosphere for these centres to operate in.

Never again should education centres close down because funds set aside for the running and promotion of adult education have run out. Never again should educators who ply their trade at these centres go for months and, in some cases years, without remuneration.

Breaking the back of illiteracy within the next three years, as envisaged by the hon the Minister of Education, will remain a receding mirage on the horizon if those who are in control of our public institutions keep refusing to allow adult education and training centres to operate from them. It is in circumstances such as these that Tirisano has to be invoked.

Mutual co-operation among educators, governing bodies and learners of the public schools and adult education centres will surely contribute greatly towards assisting our less fortunate compatriots in accessing literacy and advanced education. The UCDP fully supports the Bill. Dr M S MOGOBA: Chairperson, South Africa has an abnormally high percentage of illiterate adults for a country with such a long history of western colonial rule. It is estimated that more than 3 million adults between the ages of 16 and 65 have not had any schooling and that more than 9 million have not completed Grade 9. Even those who have gone through the schooling system are not well educated and some are functionally illiterate. This means that people are greatly disadvantaged and even discriminated against. The advent of information technology has meant that even some of those people who were previously ``literate’’ are actually functionally illiterate, and are pushed further back into the Dark Ages.

It would be helpful to encourage private centres and private initiatives by offering attractive subsidies. Institutions such as religious bodies would readily come forward to participate in this programme but for the fact that they lack resources. They have the potential for delivery which cannot be easily matched. They have an interest in the literacy programme, because religions require literacy for their education and for full participation in worship. Some of the largest historic and indigenous churches are our greatest NGOs, and would transform education and the labour market in a way that very few organisations and institutions in our country can. Overtures in this direction would make a difference between uncertain and assured success.

Technical colleges and numerous colleges that have been closed down can also be harnessed as ready facilities to help us match or meet this daunting challenge. The PAC supports this Bill, and we hope all other people could support a Bill like this, which will actually bring about change in our country.

Ms E GANDHI: Chairperson, comrades and colleagues, in supporting this Bill, I firstly want to say that we had a policy which was highly fragmented, and this Bill provides a framework within which Abet can be carried out in a more organised way. The Bill also provides funding for Abet centres, and in Clause 21 makes provision for the MEC to fund public adult general education and training on a fair, equitable and transparent basis. It also makes provision for the Minister to determine norms and standards for funding of public centres, after consultation with the Council of Education Ministers and the Finance and Fiscal Commission. This shows that it would be a discriminatory way of funding, and perhaps my colleague Mr Aucamp would object to that. I just want to say that it is a discriminatory way and it is for the better. Secondly, while we have many who are dedicated and are providing a sterling service even now, there are those who are preying on the widespread thirst for knowledge by exploiting the poor of this country. This Bill ensures that this exploitation will come to an end. It actually rewards those institutions that are providing a good service through registration, recognition and, where possible, provision of financial assistance.

In addition, the Bill makes provision for quality assurance and compliance with the rules to register, and ensures that quality education is made compulsory through the imposition of sanctions. Noncompliance with the provisions of this Bill can lead to imprisonment for up to five years, or a fine, or both. Therefore, all adult education centres have to be registered, and the quality of the education will be measured through a set of standards to be laid down by the Ministry on the advice of the National Advisory Board on Adult Basic Education and Training. But, as a wise man once said:

It is not money that is indispensable, but it is human talent and resources which are indispensable.

So, if we do not find good volunteers to attend to this, we are not going to be able to achieve what we have set out to achieve in this Bill. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Chairperson, ladies and gentlemen, I would like to thank all the hon members who have made such positive contributions to the debate. After listening to the member of the DP who was speaking for the first time, I felt like saying that he should come and join the ANC, because that is where he belongs. [Interjections.]

Let us not underestimate the significance of this day. Having promulgated the South African Schools Act and the Further Education and Training Act, today we are coming full circle with the tabled Abet legislation. We are meeting the constitutional provision, championed by the ANC, to educate our nation at all levels. This, may I add, truly marks a clean break from the apartheid past of racially fragmented and unequal educational provisioning.

It, of course, will not escape those who still subtly advocate past inequalities that the act of combating illiteracy is a continuation of the subversion the ANC began when it pronounced that the doors of learning and culture would be open to all. The revolution we started then continues with the war against illiteracy.

To ensure that the empowerment goals of Abet are realised, we must also consciously develop programmes in the South African indigenous languages. By so doing, we shall be reaffirming the equality of all 11 official languages at the same time as we tackle the mindset that oppression created in our people, namely, that their languages are worthless.

Similarly, through Abet, we undermine the impoverishment that illiteracy has contributed to our country. The economic benefits of literacy in fact go beyond the individual recipients and stretch to the nation. With the provision of Abet now, we give our people the basic knowledge they need to handle technology. In that way, we are limiting the impact of technological illiteracy on the nation and on our economy.

Our economic difficulties are in no small measure a legacy of shortsightedness of the education policies of the then NP. When I consider this, I actually wonder why on earth they expect South Africans to vote them into government. Government is about the interests of the whole country, not race-based parochialism. Let the nonracialists govern and let the adults be educated.

On the implementation front, note should be taken that, over the past five years, we have garnered the experience of dismantling apartheid education structures and replacing them with democratic and progressive infrastructure. It is this experience that we shall tap into as we give the people what they want - innovative and qualitative adult basic education and training.

For the 2000-01 financial year, the national Department of Education has allocated R2 233,000 for Abet. The provinces spent R200 million on Abet during the 1999-2000 financial year. The department has allocated R426 000 to the SA National Literacy Initiative, and donor funding at the moment stands at R35,5 million.

We are, as the figures above indicate, intent on breaking the back of illiteracy. Let the enemies of democracy rant and rave. It is all hot air. We are driven by our singular determination to restore, through adult basic education and training, the economic and human dignity of our adult population. This, to the ANC, is as much a moral obligation as it is an economic and political requirement and imperative. Our politics, unlike the past - a return to which we must resist - are morality-based.

I would again like to thank hon members very much for their support. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill read a second time.

                    EDUCATION LAWS AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Mr Chairperson, hon members of the National Assembly, ladies and gentlemen, this is a straightforward Bill which has enjoyed the support of all parties in the portfolio committee. But there are one or two important aspects to which I would like to draw the attention of the House.

The purpose of this Education Laws Amendment Bill is to introduce certain changes to the South African Qualifications Authority Act, the South African Schools Act, the Employment of Educators Act and the Further Education and Training Act.

The so-called South African Qualifications Authority Act is amended to allow representation from all the three national teacher unions, rather than only two as was originally provided for. This has the full support of all the actors in this area. I have also proposed some technical amendments to the Schools Act which are needed for the safety of schools, the expropriation of property in certain cases, the use of school facilities and the more effective governance of schools.

Safety at schools is a vital matter to be addressed, and the Bill proposes that the Minister be empowered to make regulations in this regard. Once enacted, I intend to use the powers in terms of this legislation to strengthen the safety of teachers and learners in our schools, as well as of the school property. The chronicle of events recently described in many of the newspapers is, of course, proof of the need to strengthen school safety.

As regards school governance, we have encountered problems in terms of which a new school is built, but a governing body is not yet elected. The Bill proposes that the head of department of the province be entrusted with the responsibilities of the governing body until such time as a governing body is democratically elected.

I have decided to withdraw the clause relating to the representative nature and composition of governing bodies. However, let me be quite clear on one thing: I have withdrawn the clause not because I think these matters are unimportant, but because I believe there are other ways of addressing the problem. And a problem it certainly is.

A number of events the past few weeks at a number of schools have shown us how important it is for the staff and the governing bodies of schools as well as the learner-representative structures, to be fully representative of the student community. A school in Pretoria - 40% of which comprises of black learners - had only one black learner on the 32-member learner representative council. The staff at this school, and many others like it, are all white.

These are unacceptable facts, especially to the learners and parents of these schools, and some strong measures need to be taken to correct these racial inequities. I therefore give notice that I will be introducing regulations in this regard as a matter of urgency, to provide truly representative governing bodies.

A major content of the Bill - and I come to the heart of the Bill - is to provide new disciplinary measures for teachers who fail to meet the standards of professional behaviour which we expect. I have taken an especially strong stand in relation to a number of actions that were taking place which undermine the very core and values of our system. These include theft, bribery or fraud relating to examinations, sexual assault on learners or other teachers, sexual relationships with learners in the school, assault, and alcohol and drug abuse. In such cases, a teacher who is found guilty of committing such misconduct will be dismissed. These are unacceptable actions and the perpetrators must be rooted out of our education system if we are going to achieve any kind of moral or ethical regeneration. I stress that this is a mandatory sanction. This is a sanction of the highest order. It can only happen, of course, after a fair hearing, so there can be no talk of summary dismissal. I should add also and say to the honourable House that ordinary assault is also dismissible, and since the Constitutional Court in August this year upheld section 10 of the South African Schools Act, which forbids corporal punishment, let me make it quite clear that the beating of children is illegal under our law. I am sorry that Mr Gaum is not here, because he has raised questions about the legitimate and friendly beating of children. Let me make it quite clear now that we will impose the law and, as I announced yesterday, principals will be responsible for ensuring that there is good order, civility and humanity in the schools and, of course, the ordinary teacher who uses corporal punishment will be prosecuted. Civil action will be encouraged.

I have also provided a schedule of other forms of misconduct, less serious than those above, but equally unacceptable in a quality education system. The sanction for these cases will range from counselling, verbal and written warnings, fines and suspension, to demotion or dismissal, depending on the extent and severity of the misconduct. Once again, the message must be clear that we will not tolerate any form of misconduct in our schools. As a guide to giving effect to these new measures, we have followed the approach of the rest of the Public Service and a more modern approach to employee discipline.

The existing Employment of Educators Act made disciplinary proceedings long, drawn out, very complex and complicated, and only the legal profession benefited from the complexity of the existing legislation. This is a matter that should ideally be resolved at the lowest possible level, closest to the place of work of the concerned teacher. To this end we have empowered the direct supervisor of any employee, who may be the principal in the case of a teacher, to issue verbal or written warnings in regard to less serious cases of misconduct. This is a new departure. It is our own South African-hewn approach and it requires that we prepare our managers and the system to carry out these disciplinary measures in a procedurally fair and unbiased manner. There is no point in passing legislation which we, in fact, cannot make effective.

In more serious cases a full inquiry will be conducted by the provincial department, followed by a formal disciplinary hearing of the matter. The presiding officer will make a finding and recommend an appropriate sanction to the head of department, who will be responsible for implementing such a sanction. Misconduct is one of the problems we aim to address through the Bill. The other problem is that of a teacher who does not commit misconduct, but who is simply unable, for some reason or other, to teach effectively. The reasons for such incapacity may relate to ill health or injury, in which case specific procedures, which include the possibility of rehabilitation or alternative employment, are invoked.

Incapacity, other than that caused by ill health or injury, is widespread in education, largely as a result of our legacy of poor training and inadequate supervision, especially in the early years of teaching. A procedure therefore is proposed in the Bill which will involve the assessment of capacity through an agreed-upon performance instrument. Where the performance is found to be unsatisfactory, the employer is obliged to initiate a programme of counselling and training to give the educator a chance to improve. Only where the employee fails to benefit from such programmes and continues to perform below the required level, may action be taken. I have agreed to try to reach consensus with the teacher unions on the performance measure to be used in this regard.

I do so in the belief that they will recognise the urgent need for such a tool and participate constructively in its development. However, I must give notice today that if no agreement is reached within a reasonable period of time, on an instrument to be used to evaluate performance, I will return to this House and request a further amendment to the legislation to give the employer the discretion to make such a determination.

All of the measures are powerful ones. When we argue that there is more concern with the discipline of teachers than with the development of praise, nothing could be further from the truth. Any professional educator will tell hon members that the single biggest threat to his or her performance is the poor performance and unacceptable conduct of a few bad teachers. So we must rid the system of the miscreants, raise the image of the profession and regenerate the morale and esprit de corps which has characterised teaching around the world. In this regard I am pleased and encouraged to note that a recent independent survey showed that teachers are generally more positive than they have been for a number of years.

In the end, discipline is a necessary prerequisite to professional development. We just cannot spend time on someone who has no inclination to teach. The disciplinary strand, therefore, runs concurrently with a number of other initiatives aimed at enhancing and developing the quality of the profession, such as the World Teachers’ Day, which will announce symbolic awards, rather than cash prizes. The aim is to identify a few of the wonderful teachers we have in this country and to hold them up as shining examples of the profession.

So it is in this spirit that I ask hon members to embrace the contents of the Bill. It will protect the profession from its worst enemy, ie those in its ranks who undermine the status of teaching. It will allow us to act firmly against undisciplined or incapable teachers, so that those who are committed to teaching can get on with their work. So if we want quality education we must have the internal discipline and we must have the understanding that the good teachers must be armed to do their work. It is in this spirit that I commend this important piece of legislation, though fairly straightforward, to this honourable House. [Applause.]

Mr L M KGWELE: Chairperson, hon members, the commitment of the ANC to the provision of quality education and the elimination of the legacy of inherited dysfunctional, poorly resourced and inefficiently managed schools is once more demonstrated through our unequivocal support for the Education Laws Amendment Bill, tabled for discussion this afternoon.

The Bill aims to amend the South African Qualifications Authority Act of 1995, so as to increase the representation of trade union members from two to three on the South African Qualifications Authority; to amend the South African Schools Act of 1996, in order to enable the members of the executive council to expropriate property in terms of section 58 of the Act, instead of the Expropriation Act of 1975, which prescribes procedures to be followed during the expropriation process; and to amend the Employment of Educators Act of 1998, in order to empower the head of department to employ educators in cases where there is no governing body or a council constituted in terms of the relevant Acts. This is to allow a new public school or a new public further education institution to have educators as soon as such a school or institution is established.

An incapacity code and procedures serve as a guide to the employer and the educator. Certain matters which were not clear in the Employment of Educators Act of 1998 are now clearly spelt out. New innovations which are brought about by the Bill include counselling and rehabilitation programmes for the educator.

The Bill also makes room for differentiation between serious and less serious misconduct. The disciplinary code and procedures make room for discipline to be applied in a prompt, fair, consistent and progressive manner. An employer may suspend an educator immediately without any hearing for a period of seven days with full pay. The days for the notices have been reduced, so as to make a disciplinary hearing as short as possible. It will be possible to conclude such a hearing within a period of 60 days.

The Further Education and Training Act of 1998 is amended, so as to allow the public further education and training institutions to provide for public adult learning centres and further education and training programmes until the date determined by the Minister by notice in the Gazette. As the ANC we are confident that these amendments will go a long way towards dealing with some of the challenges that continue to face our education system and towards restoring public confidence in our education system.

Recent incidents at some of our schools indicate that the demon of racism continues to plague former Model C schools. In its report entitled Racism: Racial Integration and Desegregation in South African Public Secondary Schools which was released in March last year, the Human Rights Commission found that there was racial discrimination in these schools.

The report made, among others, the following recommendations:

Antiracism training to all education stakeholders, including district officials, teachers and learners; teaching teachers about aspects of multiculturalism; clustering of schools to encourage sharing of resources between privileged and underprivileged schools; establishing a gender equality task team to look at issues of gender equality in schools; examining education policies and legislation as this relates to racism in schools; and critically reviewing social justice values in our curriculum. I believe the hon the Minister is receiving a report to that effect sometime this afternoon or he received it a few minutes ago.

It is crucial for school governing bodies to implement these recommendations. The Human Rights Commission report confirm the prevalence of racism, as shown by racial incidents that had been hitting media headlines - at least, those that were reported - over the last few years, for example, at Potgietersrus Primary School in the Northern Province; Vryburg High School in the North West; Pretoria West in Gauteng; and the Bryanston High School, also in Gauteng province, where three white bullies assaulted a black boy who lost an eye in the process. While Andrew Babeile was expelled from the entire schooling system and is languishing in jail, the three white bullies were not expelled for the sake of racial harmony.

Consistency and clear-cut policy need to be developed by the department and school governing bodies to deal with the demon of racism that is trying to raise its ugly head in our education system. The ANC has always stood for the creation of a nonracial and nonsexist, democratic society in which all South Africans enjoy conditions of peace and dignity. We are building a united nation, joining hands regardless of race, colour or creed. Each of our communities is free to express its linguistic, cultural identity and to assume its equal place within our nation. As the ANC we regard racism in schools not only as a violation of equality, human dignity and the right to basic education, but as an affront to the values enshrined in our Constitution. We invite fellow citizens to join the struggle for the elimination and combating of discrimination, to ensure the coherent integrity of society and the realisation of the national vision that is enshrined in our Constitution.

As the portfolio committee, we were anonymous that the principle of representivity in the composition of the school governing bodies needed to be addressed as a matter of extreme urgency, because it is unacceptable for school governing bodies not to reflect the demographics of learners attending any particular school. Appropriate mechanisms for intervention by MECs where racial tensions are manifest have to be included in regulations, since the Schools Act permits MECs to determine procedures for elections and co-option in order to ensure that school governing bodies are representative of the parents of learners attending a particular school.

We support the Minister’s announcement in this regard. It is internationally accepted that all experiences in learners’ lives of schooling amount to a key sociopolitical force in the process of reproducing social inequality. We in the ANC know that to ignore it would have meant developing policies of change without keeping that in mind. Instead, we kept that in mind and developed policies which tend to change the relationship between parents, teachers, learners and business in the communities into one of working together in a democratic way. That is the way forward for education in this country - Tirisano, ie working together to build a better South Africa for the 21st century.

Parties like the DP would, instead, want to wish away and ignore the disparities that exist within our society. They are always attempting to put some distance between themselves and the fact that, because of their privileged background, they benefited from the apartheid system. Who knows what hon members such as Tony Leon, Douglas Gibson and Marthinus van Schalkwyk might have been today if they had grown up in black townships, and had to walk long distances to schools which did not have water, electricity or books at their fingertips? [Interjections.]

The attitude of the DP and New NP to the inequalities that exist show that they have no idea how race-based education policies continue to hurt the disadvantaged people of this country and the African region. [Interjections.] Their well-known retort of accusing the ANC of using that fact as a scapegoat for nondelivery and failure to govern displays their ignorance, immaturity and irresponsibility. [Interjections.] The ruling party, the ANC, has surprised even them with its maturity in leading the process of stabilising the country and its economy, and developing many policies which impact on the lives of all the people in this country.

It is time that they act with maturity and agree that it is exactly because the ANC consists of members who rose from the poorest of the poor and represent those who remember and suffer because of apartheid policies that we are able to realise the vision of the Freedom Charter. [Interjections.] Let us continue to open the doors of learning to all by working together to build a better South Africa for the 21st century. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, before I call the next speaker to the podium I would like to make a brief announcement which the Speaker has requested me to make as soon as possible. The Speaker would like to invite all hon members of this House to the planting of a tree in memory of the late hon Bhekokwakhe Robert Mkhize tomorrow, 13 September, at 14h00. The ceremony will take place at the Princess Victoria statue in the garden next to the NCOP offices. You are all requested to attend.

Mr R S NTULI: Chairperson, I have no intention of creating controversy where there is no need for it. I think my statements will be confined to the Bill that we are talking about.

In kicking off, I would like to point out that when the present hon Minister of Education took over as the political head of this Ministry, after a brief yet comprehensive survey of his new portfolio, he publicly announced that the education system was dysfunctional. In so doing, he instilled a lot of national confidence because we all felt that at last we had a brave and candid politician and administrator who was prepared to accept the big challenge. Indeed, it is a big challenge. Like a well- groomed politician, he started to apply the necessary political surgery with monotonous regularity and vigour.

Some of his Bills may have had some controversial aspects, but the intentions have been good. This Bill is no exception. This Bill aims to amend the South African Qualifications Authority Act of 1995, the South African Schools Act of 1996, the Employment of Educators Act of 1998 and the Further Education and Training Act of 1998. The South African Qualifications Authority Act is amended so as, firstly, to increase the representation of trade union members in the authority from two to three. This is certainly a step in the right direction.

The South African Schools Act is amended, inter alia, to make provision and room for the interim government of a new public school until a governing body is constituted in terms of the Act. This motivation and similar reasons for the amendments of the South African Schools Act make sound, practical common sense and we, the DP, fully support these amendments. Conventional wisdom and sound management also inform the amendment of the Employment of Educators Act. The amendment empowers the head of department to employ educators in cases where there is no governing body or council constituted in terms of the relevant Acts.

Probably the most positive and emphatic aspect of the amendments in this Bill are the incapacity code and procedures which serve as a guide to the employer and educator. The new innovations brought about by the Bill include counselling and rehabilitation programmes for the educator.

This responsibility by the employer has been neglected in the past, especially in disadvantaged schools. Hence the DP not only supports but applauds this position. We hope that the necessary infrastructure will be put in place to see to it that these things happen.

The rest of the Bill addresses, in detail, issues of misconduct and demarcates clearly between serious and less serious misconduct. Besides the disciplinary code and procedures, they make provision for discipline to be applied in a prompt, fair, consistent and effective manner. This, indeed, has become essential to transform our schools from centres of violent incidents to genuine centres of learning and scholastic excellence.

In the Gauteng province alone, violent incidents that have occurred in schools between 1999 and the year 2000 include the following: The killing of three teachers at Anchor Comprehensive School in Orlando West; the shooting of Gwendoline Jele, a school principal, in Orlando West; the shooting of teachers at Ntombizodwa Secondary School in Katlehong on the East Rand and Andries Worth, a teacher at Krugersdorp High School.

Matriculants at Mokwena Secondary School in Meadowlands wrote their final history or geography examination under traumatic conditions because of a certain student who had shot a girlfriend and thereafter committed suicide. All these incidents reflect one common tragedy - a breakdown in the moral fabric of our society and a movement towards an uncaring society.

Therefore, because of these aforesaid situations, the DP has pleasure in accepting and supporting the Bill, and hopes that the department will put in place the necessary framework to enforce the letter and the spirit of this Bill. [Applause.]

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, all over the world it is taken for granted that the struggle to raise a nation’s living standards is found first and foremost in the classroom. Yet we find that some countries do educate their children much better than others.

Various theories and myths have been advanced for this differentiated educational success among and within nations. The argument often heard is that underfunding is the main cause of educational underachievement. Recent studies, though, seem to underplay this argument. Low-spending countries such as South Korea and the Czech Republic were found to be doing better than high-spending countries like France and America in the mathematics tests which were conducted in these countries.

Another article of faith, especially among the teaching profession, is that children are bound to do better in small classes. Again, a study conducted in 1997 found that children in France, America and Britain, who are usually taught in classes of 20-odd pupils, do significantly worse than those in East Asian countries where almost twice as many pupils are crammed into a class. This refutes the argument that larger is necessarily worse.

I am not saying that these factors do not have a bearing on the achievement of the educational system. One only has to look at our matric examinations. One will find that schools in the remotest areas - should I say, in the bundu - perform better than schools in what one calls ``townships’’ or than in well-resourced schools.

Against this background, the IFP welcomes the Bill, especially the clauses that deal with misconduct and discipline. As the IFP we have always believed that the success of our education system rests primarily on a teaching profession which is sufficiently motivated and disciplined. For a long time now we have had to deal with both half-hearted learners and with a teaching corps which is suffering from professional burnout with the resultant absenteeism and inefficiency.

We know of schools whose teachers have been charged with misconduct but who are still in their posts. Others have been suspended but are drawing monthly salaries for sitting at home doing nothing. This professional thieving must be brought to an end. Our motto has always been: ``Discipline without dictatorship, and freedom without chaos.’’ According to the clauses of the Bill, there will be no confusion from now on as to what constitutes both misconduct and serious misconduct.

We know that in times of instability, such as the educational crisis'', to use the Minister's words, the crisis which we are experiencing in terms of human resource provisioning, it is easy to apportion blame. Recently, an article in a certain Sunday newspaper accused the hon the Minister of what it termedthe skorokoro approach’’ to the education system, in which the Minister, it went on, was zigzagging from problem to problem.'' I would like to say to the Minister, regarding this skorokoro approach, that there is a song about a skorokoro car which goes thus:Ayinamasondo, ayidumi’‘[It has no wheels, it does not start.] But the refrain goes: ``Push, push, push.’’ I just wish the Minister was adopting the skorokoro approach as the article says, because we would all be pushing behind him.

I am saying that we do not subscribe to the view yet, as we see in the many Bills, including this one which we support, that the Minister has both the vision and the determination to deal with the problems we face. However, we say that we must hurry up in closing this gap between legislation formulation and implementation, lest we are overtaken by our critics, such as the one in the newspaper I have just quoted. [Time expired.]

Mrs A VAN WYK: Mr Chairman, I know that most of the technical aspects should have been dealt with, so I am taking a different tack.

Occasionally one gets the opportunity to witness the workings of Parliament through an unaccustomed window. It affords one a perspective from a different angle on a philosophy underpinning Government’s approach towards fulfilling its obligations to the people of South Africa.

I had the pleasure to experience the Portfolio Committee on Education for a few days, and might I say that it is a very ably chaired and conducted portfolio committee. There I also had the experience of witnessing the interesting little vignette of a Minister who honoured us with his presence, but who was not quite in sync with his colleagues over a certain clause.

Unexpectedly, he gave way to an urge to express his displeasure with the portfolio committee for the deletion of clause 5 of the original draft Bill, not knowing that even his party’s own education trade union had rejected it in that form. But the Minister did not intend being thwarted, as he explained earlier, and he announced that he would publish regulations to achieve his objectives.

More than half the members of the portfolio committee looked discomfited. The media pricked up its ears. Suddenly the hon ANC spokesperson on education, possibly looking a little sheepish, asked for a short adjournment to caucus. The chairman was caught off guard. But this is the formal stage'', he said, looking a little bewildered.No, I assure you, Mr Chairman, this is necessary’’, said the excellent Mr Moss Kgwele, now looking decidedly sheepish. The poor ANC component shuffled off with their Minister to return 20 minutes later and members have heard how well our colleagues on the right have been whipped.

There were no further incidents marring an otherwise admirably predictable procedure in the subsequent phases of the formal stage. But I cannot help wondering whether this little demonstration does not show a tendency to treat Parliament as a rubber stamp, at most to be tolerated as some kind of nuisance to be observed for form’s sake, but from whom no opposition should be brooked, thus curtailing the role of Parliament as watchdog over the interests of the public. And one must ask the question whether this - one can almost call it contempt - is not perhaps a manifestation of doubts over actual democracy. It makes one wonder too whether the executive is not a little out of touch with even its rank and file in the backbenches. After all, they are the people who know what their fellow citizens think, feel and need.

Die Nuwe NP steun die wetgewing, maar ons moet dit duidelik maak dat solank as onderwysers as arbeiders beskou word … [The New NP supports the legislation, but we must make it clear that as long as teachers are seen as labourers …]

Shall I repeat that for the Minister and wait a little while perhaps? I said, as long as teachers are seen as labourers …

… sal daar nie hoop op grootskaalse verbetering in onderwysuitkomste in ons land wees nie. Goeie wetgewing is dit wel, maar opvoeders werk met die hart en gees en verstand van die leerder; ‘n mens, nie ‘n masjien of ‘n ding nie. Sy en haar werktuie is nie pikke en grawe en masjinerie nie, maar kennis, opvoedkundige en akademiese kwalifikasies. Van ‘n onderwyser word verwag die grootste toewyding wat altyd die belange van die leerder eerste sal stel. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[… there will be no hope of large-scale improvements in educational outcomes in our country. It is indeed good legislation, but educators work with the heart and spirit and mind of the learner; a human, not a machine or a thing. She and her tools are not picks and shovels and machinery, but knowledge, educational and academic qualifications. One expects of a teacher the greatest dedication which always places the interests of the learner first.]

For example, proper teachers do not strike during school time, regardless of what currently fashionable legislation permits.

Die eerbare opvoeder sou dit as ‘n skande beskou dat sulke wetgewing soos vervat in die klousules oor misdrywe en minder ernstige misdrywe hoegenaamd noodsaaklik moet wees. Ongelukkig ís dit noodsaaklik tot tyd en wyl daar behoorlike keuringskriteria toegepas word vir voornemende onderwysers, en vereistes gestel word waaraan huidige onderwysers moet voldoen.

Benewens die regte akademiese en vakkundige kwalifikasies is dit egter ook meer as duidelik - gesonde verstand sê dit vir ons! - dat daar ander vereistes is waaraan opvoeders moet voldoen en waarop leerders met reg kan aandring. Mense wat doodgewoon nie ordentlik is nie en wat ‘n slegte naam gee aan die hele onderwyskorps behoort nie naby opvoedkundige instellings te kom nie. Mense wat nie van onbesproke karakter is nie, behoort nie naby kinders toegelaat te word nie. Mense wat nie rolmodelle kan wees vir leerders nie, kan mos nie vertrou word met die vorming van hul gees en denke nie, want of ons dit nou wil weet of nie, onderwysers het ‘n baie groter taak as net die oordra van kennis of inligting. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The honourable educator would view it as a disgrace that legislation such as that contained in the clauses on misconduct and less serious misconduct should be necessary at all. Unfortunately it is necessary until such time as proper selection criteria are implemented for prospective teachers, and requirements are set which current teachers must meet.

Apart from the correct academic and subject qualifications it is also more than clear - common sense tells us! - that there are other requirements which educators must meet and which learners can justifiably insist upon. People who are simply not respectable and who give the entire teaching corps a bad name should not come near educational institutions. People who are not of impeccable character should not be allowed near children. People who cannot be role models for learners can surely not be entrusted with the moulding of their spirits and thoughts, because whether we want to realise it or not, teachers have a far greater task than merely the conveying of knowledge or information.]

I cannot put it better than the SAOU. ``The problem with the public perception about the educator corps does not only lie with the individual, but also the employer.’’ A real teacher is a professional, not a labourer. A real teacher sees his profession as a calling, not a job. [Applause.]

Mr S J DE BEER: Chairperson, the UDM will support this Bill. I do not know whether I am contradicting the previous speaker, but I would like to congratulate the chairperson and members of the portfolio committee on conducting this matter, because I believe that, in debating this Bill, the committee has approached the matter in a very responsible way. I think that if more committees would function in this way, it would be a good day for better legislation in Parliament.

I think that notice was taken of the submissions which were made to the committee and I believe that the amendments that were brought about were certainly an improvement on the original Bill. My observation from another angle, perhaps, was that I think that the committee performed fairly well in dealing with this Bill.

One such amendment that we dealt with was the original clause 5, which the Minister also referred to, and which addressed the issue of the democratisation of school governing bodies. I want to reiterate that the UDM is in full support of the democratisation of school governing bodies. This, however, is a very delicate issue which will have to be dealt with in such a way that it does not harm the effective functioning of our schools. I am certain that the hon the Minister will also take note of this in dealing with regulations in this regard.

If the intention of the Minister of Education is to establish greater internal discipline and to enhance the quality of education through this legislation, he can certainly fully rely on the support of the UDM.

Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, hon Minister and members, the ACDP understands and supports the need for this Bill. I think after Minister Asmal took over this portfolio, of course, it was a wise decision to make an assessment of our education system. In fact, he was quite correct to assess that the education system was, and maybe still is, dysfunctional. There rests a major responsibility on the shoulders of the Minister, the Deputy Minister and the department. They have the biggest budget and one needs to be accountable to the nation. They, therefore, need to hold teachers accountable.

If one looks at the intention of the Bill, we find that the issue of the safety of our schools is a vital matter and the Minister has spoken at length about it. I think the Minister must be empowered to make regulations to improve the safety of our children and our teachers at schools. We cannot allow gun-wielding criminals and thugs to come into our schools to intimidate our teachers and children in broad daylight. I think one needs to put a stop to this.

Then, of course, regarding the issue of the school governing body, we have noted that the Minister has withdrawn this clause. But, as the ACDP, we support the idea of having representative school governing bodies. We think that that is vital in the new South Africa and the new nation. We think that it would in fact be good to have representative school governing bodies, because we are there to learn from one another. It is vital to bring everybody in because, of course, we share cultures, ideas, and thoughts.

I realise that I do not have much time, but the most important issue concerns the misconduct of teachers. It is very vital that our teachers become accountable, and this Bill will hold them accountable. Mr S B NTULI: Chairperson, Minister of Education, Deputy Minister of Education, and hon members, firstly, I would like to indicate that the Education Laws Amendment Bill brings the following measures into effect: To regulate relations between the employer and the employees in the education sector; to improve these relations in order to enhance the input by educators to bring about positive educational output; to unearth the employees’ skills, talents, etc; to achieve curricula aims and objectives.

I would like to give a bit of background. During recess I happened to have a meeting one morning with a group of senior managers - principals, former inspectors and so on. When they looked at the education laws some of them felt that these laws were more in favour of the employees, that is largely teachers and other members of lower ranks in the education strata. The same day, in the afternoon, I happened to be with the employees - particularly teachers, clerks and so on - and their impressions of the education laws were such that almost all these laws were protecting the employer and their managers.

Now these bipolar perspectives need to be worked on, the gap between them needs to be narrowed so as to bring them closer to each other because if they continue to remain far apart, the middle part will become weaker and weaker until, if not attended to swiftly, the axle will bend in the middle and eventually break.

Therefore, in order to avoid this, there is a need for a Bill, similar to the one dictated to us by the Education Laws Amendment Bill, which we are about to pass today, and a need for both the employer and the employee to change their negative attitudes and perceptions towards labour relations, as these education laws form an axis to sustain the life of the two, that is the employer and the employee, in the education sector.

This Bill further draws the distinction between misconduct and serious misconduct. The drawing of this distinction will assist in the facilitation and speedy execution of cases in education. This will enhance the discipline and good professional conduct of educators.

This Bill strengthens, nourishes and deepens our values of Tirisano: working together. In order for the department to make these values realisable, school managers, principals and all other middle management personnel need to jack up their management skills. They need to be in a position to keep proper records of each and every educator. They need to be informed and to keep abreast of these changes.

These laws will then inform school managers and other relevant stakeholders of what steps to take. For example, if an educator has committed an act of misconduct, the school manager or the school governing body should not hesitate to take disciplinary measures, be it the counselling route; verbal warning, or first, second or final warning; a fine not exceeding one month’s salary; or suspension without pay for a period not exceeding three months. If it comes to the push one can, through this Bill, bring about the demotion of such an educator or member of personnel, or one could actually combine all these measures to make them effective in ensuring that one brings the necessary order to education. That includes dismissal.

Therefore, there is no reason why structures put in place to foster discipline in educational institutions should not be used swiftly on educators who commit acts of misconduct. This Bill adopts a corrective, rather than a punitive-measure approach, towards the resolution of employee- employer relationship problems. Furthermore, the Bill brings the following into effect. It makes room for the interim governance of a new public school until a governing body is constituted in terms of the Act, and that is informed by, among other things, rapid spatial development in our country. With this development, one finds that when one builds institutions of learning, one lags behind with staffing the very same institutions. However, this Act will be an enabling means of ensuring that that problem can be resolved.

The Employment of Educators Act of 1998 is amended in order to empower the head of department to employ educators in cases where there is no governing body or a council constituted in terms of the relevant Acts. This is to allow a new public school or a new public further education institution to have educators as soon as such a school or institution is established. That is fast delivery in the spirit of the beginning of our term, as expressed by the President, who said that we needed to move faster in delivering our deliverables.

An incapacity code and procedures serve as a guide to the employer and employees. The Bill also makes room for differentiation between serious and less serious misconduct. The disciplinary code and procedures make room for discipline to be applied in a prompt, fair, consistent and progressive manner.

Lastly, I wish to indicate that some of the major serious crimes indicated by this Bill that should be taken note of are theft, bribery, fraud or an act of corruption in regard to examinations or promotional reports, which is well-timed with this period to make sure that as students enter this period of examinations all personnel about to commit such acts should be well aware of what is ahead of them in view of this Act.

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson, the Minister and hon members, the proposed amendments to the education laws seek to take education back to the basics by weeding out all forms of misconduct and ensuring representivity in the school governing bodies.

The Bill, if given the nod, will make the atmosphere conducive to teaching so that teachers can do what they are employed to do. Learners will be afforded a chance to learn in an ideal atmosphere. The history of giving heads of departments the right to appoint, promote and transfer educators to newly established centres of learning has to be watched very closely. It is under such circumstances that nepotism sets in. We would recommend that such appointments, promotions and transfers be done with the greatest circumspection and be subject to review, or be temporary until proper procedures are followed. It is obvious that heads of departments will delegate their powers to district managers and it is the latter who may spoil the good intentions.

We would have appreciated it if a dress code for educators could have been included. Some educators do not dress in a way that befits people who deal with the development of children’s characters. Children should assimilate values of life and education from their educators. We welcome the disciplinary and incapacity codes with the procedures to follow them. Educators are being afforded a chance to state their case and justify their actions before any action may be taken against them. It is hoped that the South African Council of Educators Act, which was passed some time ago, will be invoked alongside these amendments in dealing with educators.

Finally, we applaud the willpower and determination of the hon the Minister of Education to restore education to its former glory, that is, professionalism. The UCDP supports the Bill.

Dr M S MOGOBA: Chairperson, this Bill brings reforms which hopefully will result in greater efficiency in the administration of our education. Our interest in this debate will be confined to the sections relating to discipline, as school systems are constructed around the historical principle that a teacher’s role in education is that of being in loco parentis. When this assumption does not obtain, we have a grave situation which collapses or endangers the entire educational exercise.

Immorality of educators is a serious threat to the educational environment. The clauses relating to this problem are calculated to tighten the disciplinary code. In the words of the Bill, discipline must be applied in a prompt, fair, consistent and just manner. This change will hopefully avert the situation which obtained in the past where some disciplinary cases lasted an eternity, whilst scarce and meagre resources were drained. Discipline must be applied promptly, also for the sake of the pupils.

This disciplinary code is quite enlightened. Clause 12 gives a variety of sanctions which may be imposed on a guilty educator, such as counselling, verbal warnings, suspension, demotion and finally, the ultimate, which is dismissal. This last one is for very serious offences such as rape.

This Bill also makes provision for appeal. The procedure to be followed is very clear, and reduces confusion for those who will be applying the law and those who are the subjects of disciplinary process. It is hoped that all of us in this House, together with teacher unions and parent-teacher associations, will support this Bill. The PAC supports this Bill and supports good education.

Mr R P Z VAN DEN HEEVER: Chairperson, hon Minister of Education Prof Asmal, in a previous address I said that the ANC as a Government was prepared to put its money where its mouth was. In other words, the ANC does not only pay lip service to grandiose plans and schemes, but as a Government we are prepared effectively to implement the broad principles that we espouse.

One of the things which Minister Kader Asmal emphasized in his call to action or Tirisano document, was that we had to develop the professional quality of our teaching force. He also stated that he would deal decisively with indiscipline among teachers, and ensure that the culture of discipline and learning prevailed in our schools.

The Minister has maintained this position despite severe criticism he has had to endure from teachers’ organisations.

Die ANC het op ‘n baie vasberade manier hierdie wetsontwerp nagejaag. Saam met ons gemeenskap het ons groot waardering vir die baie hardwerkende en toegewyde onderwysers in ons skole. Ons is egter ook pynlik bewus van daardie onderwysers, al is hulle in die minderheid, wat die leerkultuur in ons skole ondermyn met ongedissiplineerde gedrag, wat gereeld laatkom, wat afwesig bly vir dae aaneen, en wat besope of bedwelm voor ons klasse staan. Die nuwe wetsontwerp is daarop gemik om ‘n vinnige en effektiewe dissiplinêre prosedure daar te stel om sulke onderwysers in hul spore te stuit, en om òf ‘n program van rehabilitasie in te stel, òf sodanige onderwysers uit die professie te skors.

Aan die ander kant is die oorgrote meerderheid onderwysers toegewyde en voorbeeldige leerkragte wat die onderwysprofessie tot eer strek. Ek dink dit is gepas om by die geleentheid van die deurvoer van hierdie wetsontwerp ook hulde te bring aan die honderdduisende onderwysers wat dag na dag ons kinders opvoed vir ‘n beter lewe. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The ANC has proceeded with this Bill in a very determined manner. Together with our community we have great appreciation for the very hard-working and dedicated teachers in our schools. However, we are also painfully aware of those teachers, even though they are in the minority, who undermine the culture of learning in our schools with undisciplined behaviour, who often arrive late, who remain absent for days on end, and who stand before our classes in a drunken or drugged state. The new Bill is aimed at putting in place a speedy and effective disciplinary procedure to stop such teachers in their tracks, and either to establish a programme of rehabilitation or to suspend such teachers from the profession.

On the other hand the overwhelming majority of teachers are dedicated and exemplary academic staff members who extend honour to the teaching profession. I think it is appropriate on the occasion of the passing of this Bill to pay tribute to the hundreds of thousands of teachers who educate our children day after day towards a better life.]

In this regard, I can only agree with the statement by the Minister, namely that the single biggest threat to the status of teachers is the poor performance and unacceptable conduct of a few bad teachers.

I wish to thank hon Anna van Wyk for her very descriptive narrative of the dynamic relationship that exists between the Minister and the portfolio committee. For her, coming from the ranks of the New NP, it must have been a very refreshing departure from the rubber-stamp role which parliamentary structures played to a very autocratic governing party in the days of the NP.

The ANC is proud of the dynamic relationship it enjoys with Minister Asmal. Our relationship with the Minister is not static, it is not a top-down one. We engage intensively, though constructively. I would like to say to the hon Anna van Wyk, ``welcome to the new South African Government’’. We also wish to thank the hon Mr Ntuli for his diplomatic address. He remains a valuable member of the Portfolio Committee on Education. It is a pity that the DP is only ready to support legislation which deals with the tightening of discipline of teachers, but shows no interest in supporting legislation which empowers the union rights of teachers.

We must view this Education Laws Amendment Bill in context with the South African Council of Educators Bill which we passed a month ago. The Sace Bill provided for the establishment of a professional council for educators as a statutory body. This professional council for educators has established, in collaboration with teachers, a professional code of ethics and has also devised ways and means to advance the professional status of teachers.

With the tabling of the Education Laws Amendment Bill in Parliament today, we are proceeding one step further with regard to the discipline of teachers. We are providing for a quick and effective mechanism to deal with incidents of indiscipline amongst teachers at school. However, this expeditious system of discipline is embedded within the broader labour principles of the Employment of Educators Act.

Our Education Ministry is therefore proceeding step by step towards putting into place an effective framework for the establishment of a thoroughly professional and disciplined teaching force. We would like to congratulate our hon Minister Kader Asmal on this dynamic approach to education. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Chairperson and hon members, I normally complain to my Chief Whip that I only have five minutes to sum up, so can I ask members for their forbearance? We are launching the Values in Education document this afternoon. I am inviting the House to come to the reception at the Marks Building. It is an open invitation, which includes the clerks of the House and the Chief Whip, who complains that I never invite him. So he is invited now to the Marks Building. There is a good booze-up; sorry, there is a good reception there. [Laughter.]

Although I said I would not use my five minutes, can I say something about delivery. There are remarkable things happening on the ground at present in South Africa. Last night I opened a conference on improving mathematics, science and technology performance in schools that will be running for four days. Nongovernmental organisations, unions, students, representative bodies and business have all come together, and they will do refresher courses.

This morning we had the last round of the business trust involvement. An amount of R400 million will be used to improve performance in 617 secondary schools in South Africa: delivery with the district officials, school governing bodies, the administrators and the teachers in 617 schools in the most deprived areas. So very exciting things are happening and - in order to enable us to go to the reception - we should have a formal debate on delivery in education.

There are people who do not get the credit. Part of the function of the National Assembly is to mark the people who make extraordinary contributions to education. This is something that Mrs Van Wyk does not understand really, because she is not part of the loop of what is really happening on the ground. She does not have the intelligence of the boss of the National Intelligence Service. The clause I was caucusing in the ANC was not the clause on representative school bodies. It was a different clause. I was defeated by the ANC on that. That is why I said in my speech that if we did not get the agreement of the unions in order to carry out the disability provisions, I would come back to this House next year, because here I must negotiate an agreement with the unions. I think that is wrong. I think that professionalism demands that I should be able to do that for the overall school structure.

But Mrs Van Wyk again misunderstood me on the issue of school governing bodies, and I do not like to isolate her. The plain fact of the matter is that I have been to nine schools where there have been racial tensions and problems. Part of the problem is that there are no minority groups - and her party supports minority groups - that happen to be black on the school governing body. That is why I have said what I did, and not in contempt of Parliament. Anybody who knows me knows that I respect Parliament. I was here today. I respect Parliament and its procedures. My view was: What about those people out there who feel so alienated? What about their representation?

Therefore, I have a genuine disagreement with the portfolio committee. But, I follow the proposal of Sam de Beer and the ANC. The regulations must be very carefully crafted. They must give a real place for the province and the head of the department. So, I say to Mrs Van Wyk that it is absolutely necessary to have that.

Finally, to Mr Green, in relation to financial intervention, I do not want to have the biggest budget. My budget is the smallest budget of over 30 Government departments. An amount of R46 billion goes to the provinces, and another R6 billion or R5 billion goes to universities directly. So, my budget, in terms of creativity and development, is a very small budget. Does the member know why? It is because there never was a national department of education. They did not need a national department of education. They had a department of education and training for blacks. They then had those funny Indian and Coloured departments of education and the House of Assembly department of education. We are now trying to set up a national department and resource it properly, but the budget is inordinately small.

I have taken into account the other matters raised and I hope I will be able to interact with the hon member at the reception on the points that he raised that I cannot take up now because my time is up. However, can I say that education debates are always very interesting. They are always exciting, and I am sure that it is not only the Chief Whips who got members to stay in the House until 18:30. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill read a second time.

The House adjourned at 18:29. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                        FRIDAY, 23 JUNE 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:
 (1)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Provincial and Local Government and to the Select Committee on
     Local Government and Administration. The Report of the Auditor-
     General contained in the following report is referred to the
     Standing Committee on Public Accounts:


     Report and Financial Statements of the Training Board for Local
     Government Bodies for 1998-99, including the Report of the Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 1998-99 [RP 66-2000].


 (2)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Public Works and to the Select Committee on Public Services:


     Tiro - Community Based Public Works Programme Publication, June
     2000, Volume One Number One.


 (3)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Labour and to the Select Committee on Labour and Public
     Enterprises:
     Report and Financial Statements of the National Economic
     Development and Labour Council for 1999-2000.

                        MONDAY, 17 JULY 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister of Trade and Industry on 6 June 2000 submitted a
     draft of the Competition Second Amendment Bill, 2000, as well as
     the memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed legislation,
     to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The
     draft has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Trade and
     Industry and the Select Committee on Economic Affairs by the
     Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively, in accordance with
     Joint Rule 159(2).

 (2)    The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development on 30
     June 2000 submitted a draft of the Directorate of Special
     Operations Bill, 2000, as well as the memorandum explaining the
     objects of the proposed legislation, to the Speaker and the
     Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been
     referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional
     Development and the Select Committee on Security and
     Constitutional Affairs by the Speaker and the Chairperson,
     respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

 (3)    The Minister of Finance on 4 July 2000 submitted a draft of the
     Finance Bill, 2000, as well as the memorandum explaining the
     objects of the proposed legislation, to the Speaker and the
     Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been
     referred to the Portfolio Committee on Finance and the Select
     Committee on Finance by the Speaker and the Chairperson,
     respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

 (4)    The Minister of Health on 4 July 2000 submitted a draft of the
     National Health Laboratory Services Bill, 2000, as well as the
     memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to
     the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The
     draft has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Health and
     the Select Committee on Social Services by the Speaker and the
     Chairperson, respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

National Assembly:

The Speaker:

 The following guidelines, as adjusted by the Chief Whip's Forum, are
 printed in accordance with the resolution adopted in the House on 21
 June 2000 (words in square brackets indicate omissions from existing
 text and words underlined with a solid line indicate insertions in
 existing text):

 GUIDELINES FOR TRIAL RUN TO QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY


 1.     CLUSTERS OF MINISTERS


     For the purposes of questions for oral reply each Minister will be
     placed in one of three clusters of Ministers. The clusters will be
     as follows:

     Cluster 1: Peace and Security

     Defence, Foreign Affairs, Safety and Security, Correctional
     Services, Justice and Constitutional Development, Intelligence.

     Cluster 2: Social Services and Governance

     Home Affairs, Education, Welfare and Population Development,
     Housing, Public Service and Administration, Communications, Water
     Affairs and Forestry, Health, Sport and Recreation, Minister in
     The Presidency, Provincial and Local Government.

     Cluster 3: Economics

     Finance, Public Works, Public Enterprises, Trade and Industry,
     Labour, Agriculture and Land Affairs, Transport, Environmental
     Affairs and Tourism, Minerals and Energy, Arts, Culture, Science
     and Technology.

     The clusters will rotate on a weekly basis so that each cluster of
     Ministers will answer questions every three weeks.


 2.     URGENT QUESTIONS TO MINISTER NOT DUE TO ANSWER


     A member who wants an urgent question to be placed on the Question
     Paper for a day on which such question would not be dealt with by
     a particular cluster, should hand in the question to the Speaker
     and clearly indicate that it is an urgent question. The request
     will be dealt with in the same way as a request for a snap debate.
     Such question must be submitted to the Speaker at the latest by
     12:00 on the Tuesday in the week preceding the week in which the
     question is to be answered. The Questions Office must be informed
     by the Speaker's office of the approved questions by 12:00 the
     next day for processing and publication on Friday.


 3.     NUMBER OF QUESTIONS PER MINISTER


     No more than eight questions for oral reply shall be put to a
     Minister on any particular question day: Provided that questions
     transferred from written to oral reply and questions that had been
     tanding over are not included in this number.


 4.     ORDER OF QUESTIONS BY PARTIES


     The order in which questions will be asked is the same as that
     applicable to notices of motion in the House, ie:

     (1)     ANC
     (2)     DP
     (3)     IFP
     (4)     ANC
     (5)     New NP
     (6)     UDM
     (7)     ANC
     (8)     ACDP/PAC/MF
     (9)     FF/UCDP/FA/AEB/Azapo

     A party is not obliged to ask a question and should it not do so
     the next party's question will be called.

     Questions to Ministers will follow this order every week.
 5.     NUMBER OF QUESTIONS PER MEMBER


     Each member may ask a maximum of two questions per question day.
     This excludes urgent questions, questions that are on the Question
     Paper because they stood over and written questions transferred
     for oral reply.


 6.     QUESTIONS NOT ANSWERED AT END OF QUESTION TIME


     The procedure relating to such questions remains the same, that
     is, replies must be handed in to the Secretary for inclusion in
     the Official Report of Debates of the House. All replies to such
     questions not received by the Secretary before 12:00 on the Monday
     preceding the Tuesday on which the Internal Question Paper for a
     particular question day is published will be regarded as questions
     standing over until the next cluster session. These questions will
     be published at the end of the Question Paper. Parties may decide
     to prioritise such questions.


 7.     PARTY PRIORITY OF QUESTIONS


     Parties will need to prioritise their questions and give the
     Questions Office the order in which they want their questions to
     appear on the Question Paper by 12:00 on the Wednesday in the week
     preceding the week in which they are to be answered. If parties do
     not meet this deadline the questions will be published in the
     order that they appear on the Internal Question Paper.

     The Internal Question Paper on Tuesday will contain all the
     questions as they have been received. Parties can use this
     Internal Question Paper to prioritise their questions.

     The Internal Question Paper for Thursday will contain the
     questions in the order in which they will be dealt with on the
     next Wednesday.


 8.     TIME LIMITS FOR QUESTIONS AND REPLIES


     Not more than three minutes will be allowed for the initial answer
     unless the presiding officer is of the opinion that the answer is
     sufficiently important to necessitate additional time, which must
     be limited to two more minutes.

     [Five] Four supplementary questions of one minute each will be
     allowed arising from the reply to a question: Provided that the
     member who asked the question should be given the first
     opportunity to ask a supplementary question. [The member] A member
     who asks a supplementary question will be entitled to express an
     opinion.

     The reply to a supplementary question is limited to two minutes[,
     unless the presiding officer is of the opinion that the answer is
     sufficiently important to necessitate more time].

     A supplementary question must consist of only one question.


 9.     QUESTIONS STANDING OVER


     If a Minister or Deputy Minister requests that a question stand
     over, that question shall stand over for reply until the next
     question day on which his or her cluster replies to questions.

     If a question that is put during question time stands over because
     the Minister is not in the House to answer and the party that
     asked the question so requests, the question will be put on the
     next Question Paper for reply.


     Other questions which will be regarded as standing over are those
     referred to in paragraph 6.


 10.    WRITTEN QUESTIONS TRANSFERRED FOR ORAL REPLY


     The procedure relating to such questions remains the same, with
     the exception that such questions will be cluster-bound.


 11.    QUESTIONS TO THE PRESIDENT


     The President will answer questions of national or international
     importance once a quarter.
     Such questions will be sifted in a process involving the Speaker
     to ensure that only questions satisfying set criteria are asked to
     the President.
     At any other time questions relating to the President must be
     directed to the Deputy President or the Minister in The
     Presidency.

     There will be no questions to the Deputy President and Ministers
     on days on which the President answers questions.

     The President will answer a maximum of six questions on each such
     day.

     The order in which parties will ask questions to the President is
     the same as that which applies to questions to Ministers: Provided
     that at the next session of questions to the President the
     sequence will be continued from the point where it was interrupted
     during the previous question session.

     Supplementary questions will be dealt with on the same basis as
     supplementary questions for oral reply to Ministers.

     rocedure:

     Questions to the President must be submitted to the Speaker's
     Office by 12:00 on the Monday, 16 days prior to the Wednesday on
     which they are due to be answered. The Questions office must be
     informed by 12:00 on the Tuesday, following that Monday of the
     approved questions so that they can be processed and published by
     the Thursday, almost two weeks before question day.


 12.    QUESTIONS TO THE DEPUTY PRESIDENT


     Questions to the Deputy President will be scheduled for every
     second week.

     Questions to the Deputy President will have precedence over
     questions to Ministers.

     The Deputy President will not answer questions in the week that
     the President answers questions or [on the day] in the week when
     [he or she] the Deputy President is answering questions in the
     National Council of Provinces.

     The Deputy President will answer a maximum of four questions per
     question day. The time allocated for such questions forms part of
     the total time for questions.

     The order in which parties will ask questions to the Deputy
     President is the same as that which applies to questions to
     Ministers: Provided that at the next session of questions to the
     Deputy President the sequence will be continued from the point
     where it was interrupted during the previous question session.


 13.    FORM OF QUESTION PAPER


     The Question Paper will only reflect the questions that are due to
     be answered on a particular question day.


 14.    INTERNAL QUESTION PAPER


     The Internal Question Paper will be published on Tuesday, Thursday
     and Friday.

     The format of the Internal Question Paper for Tuesday, which
     contains all the questions for oral reply for the next Wednesday,
     will remain the same.

     The Internal Question Paper for Thursday will contain the
     questions in the order in which they will be answered on the next
     Wednesday. Questions to the President will also appear in
     Thursday's Internal Question Paper.

     The Internal Question Paper for Friday will contain all the
     questions for written reply received during that parliamentary
     working week.

     The questions will retain their original numbers to assist
     departments and to avoid confusion.

                       THURSDAY, 20 JULY 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

The following changes have been made to the membership of Committees, viz:

 Communications:

 Appointed: Maziya, A M (Alt).
 Discharged: Mohai, S J.

 Correctional Services:

 Appointed: Maziya, A M.
 Discharged: Ntuli, S B.

 Foreign Affairs:

 Appointed: Clelland, N J.
 Discharged: Selfe, J.

 Housing:

 Appointed: Douglas, B M; Slabbert, J H (Alt).

 Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women:

 Appointed: Mbuyazi, L R; Ngubane, H (Alt).
 Discharged: Vos, S C.

 Public Enterprises:

 Appointed: Martins, B A D (Alt); Ntshangase, I B (Alt).

 Public Service and Administration:

 Appointed: Zulu, N E.

 Public Works:

 Appointed: Middleton, N S (Alt).
 Discharged: Slabbert, J H.

 Sport and Recreation:

 Appointed: Moonsamy, K (Alt); Southgate, R M.
 Discharged: Madasa, Z L.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and Disabled Persons on National Youth Commission, dated 29 June 2000:

 The Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and
 Status of Children, Youth and Disabled Persons, having considered the
 request from the Minister in The Presidency regarding the appointment
 of Commissioners to serve on the National Youth Commission, referred to
 it, reports as follows:


 1.     Advertisements were placed in the printed and electronic media
     from 23 to 27 June 2000, and 86 nominations were received. On 28
     June the Committee shortlisted the following nominees for
     interviews:


     Cecil Charles Davids, Marion Thembi Khambule, Yoliswa Makhasi,
     Petros Nketu Matima, Ntsokolo Ishmail Mbalula, Prince Nkintsing
     Mokotedi, Langanane Lucy Catherine Mphelo, Ngwanakopi Gladys
     Ramushu, Daniel van Vuuren and Dr V Pillay.

     Dr Pillay withdrew her nomination, and the Committee included
     Vuyani Dyantyi as the next person to form part of the 10
     candidates to be interviewed.


 2.     On 29 June, the Committee spent nine hours interviewing the said
     10 candidates. The principles contained in section 4 of the
     National Youth Commission Act, 1996, (Act No. 19 of 1996), were
     duly taken into account during the entire process.

 3.     The Committee accordingly recommends, in accordance with section
     4 of the National Youth Commission Act, 1996, the following
     candidates (in order of preference) for consideration by the
     President in appointing five full-time members to the National
     Youth Commission:


     Yoliswa Makhasi, Ntsokolo Ishmail Mbalula, Daniel van Vuuren,
     Petros Nketu Matima, Ngwanakopi Gladys Ramushu, Langanane Lucy
     Catherine Mphelo and Vuyani Dyantyi.


 Report to be considered.

National Assembly:

1. Seventh Report of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts, dated 21 June 2000:

 The Standing Committee on Public Accounts, having considered and
 examined the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
 of Vote 5: Arts, Culture, Science and Technology for the year ended 31
 March 1999 [RP 130-99], as well as certain papers referred to it, and
 having heard evidence, reports as follows:


 1.     Financial management, internal audit and audit committee
     [Page 2, Paragraph 3.1]

     The Committee is concerned that the Director-General of the
     Department has not yet vacated his position as chairperson of the
     audit committee and that the internal audit unit is still not
     functioning at full strength. In addition, the external auditors
     did not place full reliance on the work done by the internal
     auditors.
     The Committee therefore recommends that -


     (1)     the Director-General, in his formal response to this
          Report, provide details on the new chairperson of the audit
          committee, and further indicate whether that committee fully
          complies with the requirements of section 77 of the Public
          Finance Management Act; and

     (2)     the monitoring unit in the Office of the Accountant-
          General advise the Accounting Officer and the audit committee
          on the adequacy of the staffing of the Department's internal
          audit unit in terms of generally accepted benchmarks, and
          report to the Committee in this regard.


 2.     Recovery of unauthorised expenditure
     [Page 2, Paragraph 3.2]
     Unauthorised expenditure amounting to R112 960, which related to
     air travel and subsistence expenses in respect of an unauthorised
     visit abroad by a former Deputy Minister of Arts, Culture, Science
     and Technology, was previously not authorised by Parliament.
     Consequently, the head of the Department initiated a process,
     inter alia in terms of sections 33 and 34 of the Exchequer Act,
     aimed at the recovery of the amount in question from the person
     concerned.

     The Committee has since determined that the Department, despite
     significant efforts on the part of the Accounting Officer, did not
     succeed in recovering the amount in question. In addition, the
     Committee has been informed that -


     (1)     the claim of the State against the former Deputy Minister
          has since prescribed;


     (2)     the recovery process by the Director-General of Arts,
          Culture, Science and Technology was interrupted by unsolicited
          opinion from the former Director-General of the Department of
          State Expenditure regarding the possible validation of the
          expenditure; and


     (3)     successful recovery by the State by means of a delictual
          court action seems highly improbable.
     The above resulted as a consequence of the Director-General of
     State Expenditure informing the Accounting Officer that the money
     did not need to be recovered from the former Deputy Minister. This
     view was based on correspondence from the former Minister of
     Foreign Affairs that value had been gained from the former Deputy
     Minister's trip. The Office of the State Attorney was extremely
     slow in pursuing the recovery of the debt, leading to
     prescription. The Committee believes that the actions of the
     Department of State Expenditure and the Office of the State
     Attorney were inappropriate, and in this instance, undermined the
     work of Parliament.

     The Committee, aggrieved by the inappropriate action of the
     Department of State Expenditure, referred to in paragraph (2)
     above, wishes to note that, although it is not an implementing
     authority, it reserves the right to monitor all its resolutions
     and that it expects appropriate and timeous report-back to
     Parliament by both the line-function department concerned, and the
     Department of State Expenditure, as the department with overall
     responsibility for regulating financial control and monitoring
     financial management. The Committee will also determine whether
     the role played by agencies such as the Office of the State
     Attorney delays or hampers the Committee's oversight processes in
     any way.

     Given the serious implications of the above-mentioned on the
     effective oversight role of the Committee, it is resolved that the
     Committee will urgently investigate, in consultation with all
     relevant parties, the adequacy of recovery and other corrective
     processes once Parliament has refused to authorise or validate
     unauthorised expenditure. The Committee also resolves to determine
     to what extent Rule 317 of the National Assembly can facilitate
     appropriate and expeditious response from public sector
     departments and agencies to the Committee's resolutions, once
     adopted by the House.

     In addition, the Committee notes that, in terms of the Public
     Finance Management Act, far quicker action will be demanded of
     accounting officers with regard to the recovery of unauthorised
     expenditure.

     Nevertheless, the Committee resolves further to investigate, with
     the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development
     and other relevant parties, the desirability of extending the
     three-year prescription period in law and the appropriateness of
     prescription legislation as it pertains to matters of public
     finance.


 3.     Claims against Department
     [Page 3, Paragraph 3.3]

     The Committee has taken note that the Department had received
     approval from the Department of State Expenditure to write off an
     amount of R60 230,28 relating to damages to certain government
     vehicles used by the former Deputy Minister. In order for the
     Committee to fully satisfy itself that this matter should be laid
     to rest, it requests a brief report by the Department of State
     Expenditure as to the basis on which the approval for the write-
     off had been granted. The Committee recommends that such report be
     furnished within 30 days of adoption of this Report by the House.


 4.     Transfer payments (R686 068 000)


     The Committee is concerned that the State may not always be
     assured that value for money is received for transfer payments
     made by the Department. The Committee therefore requests the
     Director-General to provide a brief report on the manner in which
     assurance is received of proper control and value for money
     received in respect of annual transfers made by the Department.

     In addition, the Committee recommends that the Auditor-General in
     the next regularity audit report indicate whether -


     (1)     proper financial management procedures in both the
          Department and the receiving entity are in place with respect
          to all transfer payments made by the Department; and


     (2)     value for money is being received for these transfers.
     The Committee has further noted that transfer payments constitute
     approximately 90% of the Department's budget. The Committee is
     pleased to note that the Director-General has recognised that it
     is critical to exercise appropriate control over transfer payments
     and that such control should not be invalidated by the autonomy
     provisions of the receiving institutions.

     The Committee therefore further recommends that the Department
     report back to it on the progress made with the establishing of
     performance indicators for all transfer payments made, as well as
     a performance reporting system in respect of such indicators. This
     should include information on the success of the "early warning
     system" implemented in this regard by the Director: Finance.


 5.     Unspent funds


     The Committee is concerned at the extent of the recorded "savings"
     by the Department, which constituted R72 978 000 during the 1997-
     98 financial year and R30 002 000 during the 1998-99 financial
     year. The opportunities lost to fund important bodies and
     institutions in desperate financial need are to be regretted. The
     Committee will in future monitor the efficiency of departmental
     budgetary planning and expenditure control.


 The Committee recommends accordingly.

 Report to be considered.

                       TUESDAY, 15 AUGUST 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister of Public Enterprises on 27 July 2000 submitted a
     draft of the Transnet Pension Fund Amendment Bill, 2000, as well
     as the memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed
     legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint
     Rule 159. The draft has been referred to the Portfolio Committee
     on Public Enterprises and the Select Committee on Labour and
     Public Enterprises by the Speaker and the Chairperson,
     respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

 (2)    The Minister of Education on 27 July 2000 submitted drafts of
     the Adult Basic Education and Training Bill, Education Laws
     Amendment Bill, and Higher Education Amendment Bill, 2000, as well
     as the memorandums explaining the objects of the proposed
     legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint
     Rule 159. The drafts have been referred to the Portfolio Committee
     on Education and the Select Committee on Education and Recreation
     by the Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively, in accordance
     with Joint Rule 159(2).

 (3)    The Minister of Finance on 1 August 2000 submitted a draft of
     the Banks Amendment Bill, 2000, as well as the memorandum
     explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to the Speaker
     and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been
     referred to the Portfolio Committee on Finance and the Select
     Committee on Finance by the Speaker and the Chairperson,
     respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

 (4)    The Minister of Minerals and Energy on 3 August 2000 submitted a
     draft of the Abolition of Lebowa Mineral Trust Bill, 2000, as well
     as the memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed
     legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint
     Rule 159. The draft has been referred to the Portfolio Committee
     on Minerals and Energy and the Select Committee on Economic
     Affairs by the Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively, in
     accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

 (5)    The Minister of Sport and Recreation on 8 August 2000 submitted
     a draft of the South African Boxing Bill, 2000, as well as the
     memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to
     the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The
     draft has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Sport and
     Recreation and the Select Committee on Education and Recreation by
     the Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively, in accordance with
     Joint Rule 159(2).

 (6)    The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology on 11
     August 2000 submitted drafts of the National Council for Library
     and Information Services Bill, Cultural Laws Amendment Bill and
     Cultural Laws Second Amendment Bill, 2000, as well as the
     memorandums explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to
     the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The
     drafts have been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Arts,
     Culture, Science and Technology and the Select Committee on
     Education and Recreation by the Speaker and the Chairperson,
     respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

 (7)    The Minister for Provincial and Local Government on 11 August
     2000 submitted a draft of the Local Government: Municipal
     Structures Amendment Bill, 2000, as well as the memorandum
     explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to the Speaker
     and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been
     referred to the Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local
     Government and the Select Committee on Local Government and
     Administration by the Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively,
     in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bill was introduced in the National Assembly on 11
     August 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Directorate of Special Operations Bill [B 39 - 2000]
          (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Justice
          and Constitutional Development - National Assembly)
          [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
          introduction published in Government Gazette No 21436 of 2
          August 2000.]


 (2)    The following Bill was introduced in the National Assembly on 14
     August 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Finance Bill [B 40 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75) -
          (Portfolio Committee on Finance - National Assembly)
          [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
          introduction published in Government Gazette No 21455 of 3
          August 2000.]


 (3)    The following Bills were introduced in the National Assembly on
     15 August 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
     for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Competition Second Amendment Bill [B 41 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Trade and
              Industry - National Assembly) [Explanatory summary of
              Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
              Government Gazette No 21479 of 16 August 2000.]
     (ii)    Adult Basic Education and Training Bill [B 42 - 2000]
              (National Assembly - sec 76) - (Portfolio Committee on
              Education - National Assembly) [Explanatory summary of
              Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
              Government Gazette No 21461 of 7 August 2000.]


     (iii)   Developmental Welfare Governance Bill [B 43 - 2000]
              (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on
              Welfare and Population Development - National Assembly)
              [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
              introduction published in Government Gazette No 21369 of
              21 July 2000.]


     (iv)    National Council for Library and Information Services Bill
              [B 44 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio
              Committee on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology -
              National Assembly) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
              notice of its introduction published in Government
              Gazette No 21452 of 4 August 2000.]


     (v)     Cultural Laws Amendment Bill [B 45 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Arts,
              Culture, Science and Technology - National Assembly)
              [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
              introduction published in Government Gazette No 21452 of
              4 August 2000.]


     (vi)    Cultural Laws Second Amendment Bill [B 46 - 2000]
              (National Assembly - sec 76) - (Portfolio Committee on
              Arts, Culture, Science and Technology - National
              Assembly) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice
              of its introduction published in Government Gazette No
              21452 of 4 August 2000.]

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Assent by the President of the Republic in respect of the
     following Bills:


     1. National House of Traditional Leaders Amendment Bill [B 15B -
          2000] - Act No 20 of 2000 (assented to and signed by
          President on 29 June 2000);

     2. Remuneration of Public Office Bearers Second Amendment Bill [B
          23 - 2000] - Act No 21 of 2000 (assented to and signed by
          President on 29 June 2000);

     3. Appropriation Bill [B 7 and 7A - 2000] - Act No 23 of 2000
         (assented to and signed by President on 26 July 2000);

     4. Administrative Adjudication of Road Traffic Offences Amendment
          Bill [B 31B - 2000] - Act No 24 of 2000 (assented to and
          signed by President on 26 July 2000);

     5. Road Traffic Management Corporation Amendment Bill [B 32B -
         2000] - Act No 25 of 2000 (assented to and signed by President
         on 26 July 2000);

     6. Protected Disclosures Bill [B 30B - 2000] - Act No 26 of 2000
          (assented to and signed by President on 1 August 2000);
     7. Local Government: Municipal Electoral Bill [B 35B - 2000] - Act
          No 27 of 2000 (assented to and signed by President on 6 July
          2000);

     8. Identification Amendment Bill [B 33 - 2000] - Act No 28 of 2000
          (assented to and signed by President on 26 July 2000);

     9. Local Government: Cross-boundary Municipalities Bill [B 37B -
          2000] - Act No 29 of 2000 (assented to and signed by
          President on 30 June 2000);

     10.     Taxation Laws Amendment Bill [B 38 - 2000] - Act No 30 of
          2000 (assented to and signed by President on 16 July 2000);
          and

     11.     South African Council for Educators Bill [B 26D - 2000] -
          Act No 31 of 2000 (assented to and signed by President on 26
          July 2000).

                      WEDNESDAY, 23 AUGUST 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister of Defence on 28 July 2000 submitted a draft of the
     Conventional Arms Control Bill, 2000, as well as the memorandum
     explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to the Speaker
     and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been
     referred to the Portfolio Committee on Defence and the Select
     Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs by the Speaker
     and the Chairperson, respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule
     159(2).

 (2)    The Minister of Public Works on 15 August 2000 submitted a draft
     of the Construction Industry Development Board Bill, 2000, as well
     as the memorandum explaining the objects of the proposed
     legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint
     Rule 159. The draft has been referred to the Portfolio Committee
     on Public Works and the Select Committee on Public Services by the
     Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively, in accordance with
     Joint Rule 159(2).

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bills were introduced in the National Assembly on
     16 August 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
     for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Bills of Exchange Amendment Bill [B 47 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Finance -
              National Assembly) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
              notice of its introduction published in Government
              Gazette No 21316 of 23 June 2000.]


     (ii)    Education Laws Amendment Bill [B 48 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Education -
              National Assembly) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
              notice of its introduction published in Government
              Gazette No 21461 of 7 August 2000.]
 (2)    The following Bills were introduced in the National Assembly on
     17 August 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
     for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Abolition of Lebowa Mineral Trust Bill [B 49 - 2000]
              (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on
              Minerals and Energy - National Assembly) [Explanatory
              summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction
              published in Government Gazette No 21420 of 28 July
              2000.]


     (ii)    Conventional Arms Control Bill [B 50 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Defence -
              National Assembly) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
              notice of its introduction published in Government
              Gazette No 21426 of 28 July 2000.]


     (iii)   Local Government: Municipal Structures Amendment Bill [B
              51 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio
              Committee on Provincial and Local Government - National
              Assembly) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice
              of its introduction published in Government Gazette No
              21475 of 11 August 2000.]


 (3)    The following Bill was introduced in the National Assembly on 18
     August 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Home Loan and Mortgage Disclosure Bill [B 53 - 2000]
          (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on
          Housing - National Assembly) [Explanatory summary of Bill and
          prior notice of its introduction published in Government
          Gazette No 21481 of 18 August 2000.]


 (4)    The following Bill was introduced in the National Council of
     Provinces on 18 August 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging
     Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     National Health Laboratory Services Bill [B 52 - 2000]
         (National Council of Provinces - sec 76) - (Select Committee on
         Social Services - National Council of Provinces) [Explanatory
         summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction published
         in Government Gazette No 20520 of 1 October 1999.]


 (5)    The following Bills were introduced in the National Assembly on
     22 August 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
     for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     South African Weather Service Bill [B 54 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on
              Environmental Affairs and Tourism - National Assembly)
              [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
              introduction published in Government Gazette No 20979 of
              17 March 2000.]


     (ii)    Higher Education Amendment Bill [B 55 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Education -
              National Assembly) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
              notice of its introduction published in Government
              Gazette No 21461 of 7 August 2000.]


     (iii)   Banks Amendment Bill [B 56 - 2000] (National Assembly -
              sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Finance - National
              Assembly) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice
              of its introduction published in Government Gazette No
              21437 of 3 August 2000.]

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Assent by the President of the Republic in respect of the
     following Bill:


     (i)     National Land Transport Transition Bill [B 5B - 2000] -
              Act No 22 of 2000 (assented to and signed by President on
              17 August 2000).

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Documents, in terms of section 3(11)(a) of the Public Protector Act,
 1994 (Act No 23 of 1994), setting out the remuneration, allowances and
 other conditions of employment determined by the Public Protector for
 staff in his office.

 Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional
 Development and to the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional
 Affairs for consideration and report.

1. The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:

 Reports of the National Archivist and the National State Herald for
 1998-99.

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry:

 (1)    Agreement of the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe
     concerning the adoption of uniform technical prescriptions for
     wheeled vehicles, equipment and parts which can be fitted and/or
     be used on wheeled vehicles and the conditions for reciprocal
     recognition of approvals granted on the basis of these
     prescriptions [1958 Agreement], tabled in terms of section 231(2)
     of the Constitution, 1996.

 (2)    Explanatory Memorandum to the agreement.

 (3)    Agreement of the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe
     concerning the establishment of Global Technical Regulations for
     wheeled vehicles, equipment and parts which can be fitted and/or
     be used on wheeled vehicles [Global Agreement], tabled in terms of
     section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.

 (4)    Explanatory Memorandum to the agreement.


 Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry and to the
 Select Committee on Economic Affairs for consideration and report.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    Petition from Mr B D Brown praying for an increase in a military
     pension.


 Referred to the Standing Committee on Private Members' Legislative
 Proposals and Special Petitions.


 (2)    The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development
     submitted the following letter to the Speaker of the National
     Assembly:



     REPORT ON THE ADMINISTRATIVE JUSTICE BILL [B 56-99]

     Thank you for your letter of 30 March 2000, bringing the report of
     the Portfolio Committee to my attention. The matter referred to in
     the report have been receiving the attention of my Department. I
     can report back as follows at this stage.
     Regarding paragraph 1 of the report, dealing with the training of
     magistrates at Justice College, this has been brought to the
     attention of the College which is in the process of formulating a
     training programme. I can also mention that Justice College has
     recently conducted a three day training workshop for senior
     personnel in the Department on this legislation, as well as on the
     Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act,
     2000, and the Promotion of Access to Information Act, 2000.

     Regarding paragraph 2 of the report dealing with the possibility
     of circuit courts I have written to all Judges President of the
     High Courts and am awaiting their response. Once this legislation
     becomes operational in the lower courts, the department will
     monitor appeals to High Courts, as requested.

     Regarding paragraph 3, dealing with the impact of other
     legislation with review procedures on this Act, I can mention that
     my Department has written to all Directors-General on national and
     provincial level, requesting them to furnish information for
     purposes of the investigation.

     Regarding paragraph 4, dealing with the Code of Conduct, the
     Department is at present preparing draft regulations which will be
     distributed to role-players for comments. The Code will be
     incorporated in these regulations.

     Regarding paragraph 6, requesting the rules Board for Courts of
     Law to make and implement rules of procedure for the judicial
     review of administrative actions, I can mention that the rules
     Board has been informed accordingly and I await the Board's
     response.

     Cognisance has also been taken of paragraph 7 of the report,
     pointing out that the failure by a public body to take a decision
     constitutes a special ground of review. This has been drawn to the
     attention of all Directors-General for dissemination in their
     administrations.

     Further feedback on these matters will be submitted to the
     Portfolio Committee in their first report at the end of the six
     month period as required by the Committee that is by 25 July 2000.


 Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional
 Development.

Bills:

1. The Minister of Education:

 (1)    Wysigingswetsontwerp op Onderwyswette [W 48 - 2000]


     The Education Laws Amendment Bill [B 48 - 2000] (National Assembly
     - sec 75) was introduced by the Minister of Education on 16 August
     2000 and referred to the Portfolio Committee on Education.

                       FRIDAY, 25 AUGUST 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister of Foreign Affairs on 16 August 2000 submitted a
     draft of the African Renaissance and International Co-operation
     Fund Bill, 2000, as well as the memorandum explaining the objects
     of the proposed legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in
     terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been referred to the
     Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs and the Select Committee on
     Economic Affairs by the Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively,
     in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bills were introduced in the National Assembly on
     23 August 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
     for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Transnet Pension Fund Amendment Bill [B 57 - 2000]
              (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on
              Public Enterprises - National Assembly) [Explanatory
              summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction
              published in Government Gazette No 21214 of 29 May 2000.]


     (ii)    South African Boxing Bill [B 58 - 2000] (National Assembly
              - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation
              - National Assembly) [Explanatory summary of Bill and
              prior notice of its introduction published in Government
              Gazette No 21456 of 14 August 2000.]

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM), in terms of Joint Rule
     160(3), classified the following Bills as section 75 Bills on 24
     August 2000:


     (i)     Directorate of Special Operations Bill [B 39 - 2000]
              (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on
              Justice and Constitutional Development - National
              Assembly).
     (ii)    Finance Bill [B 40 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75) -
              (Portfolio Committee on Finance - National Assembly).

     (iii)   Competition Second Amendment Bill [B 41 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Trade and
              Industry - National Assembly).

     (iv)    Developmental Welfare Governance Bill [B 43 - 2000]
              (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on
              Welfare and Population Development - National Assembly).

     (v)     National Council for Library and Information Services Bill
              [B 44 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio
              Committee on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology -
              National Assembly).

     (vi)    Cultural Laws Amendment Bill [B 45 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Arts,
              Culture, Science and Technology - National Assembly).

     (vii)   Bills of Exchange Amendment Bill [B 47 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Finance -
              National Assembly).

     (viii)  Abolition of Lebowa Mineral Trust Bill [B 49 - 2000]
              (National Assembly - sec 75)  - (Portfolio Committee on
              Minerals and Energy - National Assembly).

     (ix)    Conventional Arms Control Bill [B 50 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Defence -
              National Assembly).

     (x)     Local Government: Municipal Structures Amendment Bill [B
              51 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio
              Committee on Provincial and Local Government - National
              Assembly).

     (xi)    Home Loan and Mortgage Disclosure Bill [B 53 - 2000]
              (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on
              Housing - National Assembly).

     (xii)   South African Weather Service Bill [B 54 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on
              Environmental Affairs and Tourism - National Assembly).

     (xiii)  Higher Education Amendment Bill [B 55 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Education -
              National Assembly).

     (xiv)   Banks Amendment Bill [B 56 - 2000] (National Assembly -
              sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Finance - National
              Assembly).

     (xv)    Transnet Pension Fund Amendment Bill [B 57 - 2000]
              (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on
              Public Enterprises - National Assembly).


 (2)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM), in terms of Joint Rule
     160(4), classified the following Bills as section 76 Bills on 24
     August 2000:


     (i)     Adult Basic Education and Training Bill [B 42 - 2000]
              (National Assembly - sec 76) - (Portfolio Committee on
              Education - National Assembly).

     (ii)    Cultural Laws Second Amendment Bill [B 46 - 2000]
              (National Assembly - sec 76) - (Portfolio Committee on
              Arts, Culture, Science and Technology - National
              Assembly).

     (iii)   Education Laws Amendment Bill [B 48 - 2000] (National
              Assembly - sec 76) - (Portfolio Committee on Education -
              National Assembly).

     (iv)    National Health Laboratory Services Bill [B 52 - 2000]
              (National Council of Provinces - sec 76) - (Select
              Committee on Social Services - National Council of
              Provinces).

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    On 15 August 2000 it was announced that the Adult Basic
     Education and Training Bill [B 42 - 2000] and Cultural Laws Second
     Amendment Bill [B 46 - 2000] had been introduced as sec 75 Bills.
     Those entries were not correct and should read as follows:


          Adult Basic Education and Training Bill [B 42 - 2000]
          (National Assembly - sec 76);
          Cultural Laws Second Amendment Bill [B 46 - 2000] (National
          Assembly - sec 76).


 (2)    On 23 August 2000 it was announced that the Education Laws
     Amendment Bill [B 48 - 2000] had been introduced as a sec 75 Bill.
     That entry was not correct and should read as follows:


          Education Laws Amendment Bill [B 48 - 2000] (National Assembly
          - sec 76).

                       TUESDAY, 29 AUGUST 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development on 28
     July 2000 submitted a draft of the Judicial Matters Amendment
     Bill, 2000, as well as the memorandum explaining the objects of
     the proposed legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson in
     terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been referred to the
     Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development and
     the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs by the
     Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively, in accordance with
     Joint Rule 159(2).

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    The Minister of Foreign Affairs on 30 June 2000 submitted a
     letter, together with a Media Statement by the Minister of
     Defence, on the financial implications of the deployment of
     specialised units of the South African National Defence Force to
     the Democratic Republic of Congo for safekeeping purposes.


 The letter has been referred to the Joint Standing Committee on
 Defence.

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    The vacancy which occurred owing to Dr K Rajoo vacating his seat
     with effect from 1 August 2000, has been filled with effect from 1
     August 2000 by the nomination of the following member:


     Sibiya, M S M.


 (2)    The vacancy which occurred owing to the death of Mr B R Mkhize
     will be filled with effect from 1 September 2000 by the nomination
     of the following member:


     Mohlala, R J B.


 (3)    The vacancy which occurred owing to Mr A Williams vacating his
     seat with effect from 14 August 2000, has been filled with effect
     from 14 August 2000 by the nomination of the following member:


     Schippers, J.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Special Report of the Auditor-General on donor funding and
     remuneration of a former adviser in the Office of the Premier of
     Mpumalanga [RP 123-99].

 (2)    Report of the Public Protector on an investigation of complaints
     in connection with the Special Report of the Auditor-General on
     donor funding and remuneration of a former adviser in the Office
     of the Premier of Mpumalanga, dated 2 December 1999, and matters
     incidental thereto. 2.    The Minister of Safety and Security:


 Regulation No R.721 published in the Government Gazette No 21375 dated
 21 July 2000, Regulations for the South African Police Service made in
 terms of section 24(1)(g) of the South African Police Service Act, 1995
 (Act No 68 of 1995).

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry:

 (1)    Report and Financial Statements of the Council for Scientific
     and Industrial Research for 1999-2000, including the Report of the
     Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 1999-2000.

 (2)    The Council for Scientific and Industrial Research's Technology
     Impact for 2000.

                      WEDNESDAY, 30 AUGUST 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bill was introduced in the National Council of
     Provinces on 30 August 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging
     Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Construction Industry Development Board Bill [B 59 - 2000]
          (National Council of Provinces - sec 76) - (Select Committee
          on Public Services - National Council of Provinces)
          [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior notice of its
          introduction published in Government Gazette No 21477 of 15
          August 2000.]

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Safety and Security:

 Report of the Independent Complaints Directorate for the period
 December 1999 to May 2000, submitted in terms of section 18(5)(c) of
 the Domestic Violence Act, 1998.

                      THURSDAY, 31 AUGUST 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

The following changes have been made to the membership of Committees,
 viz:


 Subcommittee (of Rules Committee) on Parliamentary Oversight and
 Accountability:

 Appointed: Sonjica, B P (Alt).
 Discharged: Vilakazi, B H.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Finance Bill [B 40 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 23 August 2000:

   The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the Finance Bill [B 40 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill without amendment.

2. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Education on the Adult Basic Education and Training Bill [B 42 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 24 August 2000:

   The Portfolio Committee on Education, having considered the subject of the Adult Basic Education and Training Bill [B 42 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 76), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 76 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 42A - 2000].

3. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Education on the Education Laws Amendment Bill [B 48 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 24 August 2000:

   The Portfolio Committee on Education, having considered the subject of the Education Laws Amendment Bill [B 48 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 76), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 76 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 48A - 2000].

4. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises on the Transnet Pension Fund Amendment Bill [B 57 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 30 August 2000:

   The Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises, having considered the subject of the Transnet Pension Fund Amendment Bill [B 57 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 57A - 2000].

                   FRIDAY, 1 SEPTEMBER 2000
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Assent by the President of the Republic in respect of the
     following Bills:


     (i)     Chiropractors, Homeopaths and Allied Health Service
              Professions Amendment Bill [B 2 - 2000] - Act No 6 of
              2000 (assented to and signed by President on 30 August
              2000);

     (ii)    Remuneration of Public Office Bearers Amendment Bill [B
              11D - 2000] - Act No 9 of 2000 (assented to and signed by
              President on 30 August 2000); and

     (iii)   Road Accident Fund Commission Amendment Bill [B 12 - 2000]
              - Act No 18 of 2000 (assented to and signed by President
              on 30 August 2000).

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Finance:

 (1)    Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
     and the Government of the Federal Republic of Nigeria for the
     Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion
     with respect to Taxes on Income and on Capital Gains, tabled in
     terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.

 (2)    Explanatory Memorandum on the Double Taxation Agreement between
     the Republic of South Africa and Nigeria.

 (3)    Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
     and the Government of the People's Republic of China for the
     Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion
     with respect to Taxes on Income, tabled in terms of section 231(2)
     of the Constitution, 1996.

 (4)    Explanatory Memorandum on the Double Taxation Agreement between
     the Republic of South Africa and the People's Republic of China.

                      TUESDAY, 5 SEPTEMBER 2000

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces: Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Reports of the Auditor-General on the -

 (1)    Accounts on the National Government for 1998-1999 [RP 201-99].

 (2)    Urban Transport Fund for 1998-99 [RP 97-2000].

 (3)    Financial Statements of the National Hiking Way Fund for 1998-99
     [RP 105-2000].

 (4)    Financial Statements of the Manpower Development Authority of
     Bophuthatswana for 1998-99 [RP 106-2000].

 (5)    Group Annual Financial Statements of the SFF Association for
     1997-98 [RP 108-99].

 (6)    Financial Statements of the Milk Board for the 10 Month period
     ended 31 December 1997 and the Liquidation Account for the period
     1 January 1998 to 31 December 1999 [RP 109-2000].

 (7)    Group Annual Financial Statements of the SFF Association for
     1996-97 [RP 146-99].

 (8)    Financial Statements of the National Supplies Procurement Fund
     for 1998-99 [RP 148-2000].

 (9)    Financial Statements of the Maize Board for 1998-99 [RP 149-
     2000].

 (10)   Financial Statements of the South African Library for the Blind
     for 1998-99 [RP 151-2000].

 (11)   Financial Statements of the Universal Service Agency for 1998-99
     [RP 157-2000].

1. The Minister of Home Affairs:

 (1)    Government Notice No R.276 published in the Government Gazette
     No 21016 dated 1 April 2000, Seventh Amendment of the Aliens
     Control Regulations made in terms of the Aliens Control Act, 1991
     (Act No 96 of 1991).


 (2)    Government Notice No R.249 published in the Government Gazette
     No 20988 dated 14 March 2000, Sixth Amendment of the Marriages
     Regulations, made in terms of the Marriage Act, 1961 (Act No 25 of
     1961).

 (3)    Government Notice No R.250 published in the Government Gazette
     No 20990 dated 17 March 2000, Fifth Amendment of the regulations,
     made in terms of the South African Citizenship Act, 1995 (Act No
     88 of 1995).
 (4)    Government Notice No R.251 published in the Government Gazette
     No 20991 dated 17 March 2000, Sixth Amendment of the regulations,
     made in terms of the South African Passport and Travel Documents
     Act, 1994 (Act No 4 of 1994).

 (5)    Government Notice No R.275 published in the Government Gazette
     No 21015 dated 1 April 2000, Third Amendment of the regulations,
     made in terms of the Identification Act, 1997 (Act No 68 of 1997).

1. The Minister of Transport:

 (1)    Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
     and the Government of the People's Republic of China on Maritime
     Transport, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution,
     1996.

 (2)    Explanatory Memorandum to the agreement.

 (3)    Report and Financial Statements of the South African National
     Roads Agency Limited for 1998-99, including the Report of the
     Auditor-General on the Financial statements for 1998-99 [RP 95-
     2000].

 (4)    Report and Financial Statements of the South African Rail
     Commuter Corporation Limited for 1998-99, including the Report of
     the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 1998-99.

 (5)    Report and Financial Statements of the Airports Company South
     Africa Limited for 1999-2000.

 (6)    Report and Financial Statements of the Air Traffic and
     Navigation Services Company Limited for 1999-2000.

                     WEDNESDAY, 6 SEPTEMBER 2000

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Report of the Audit Commission in terms of section 10(3) of the Audit
 Arrangements Act, 1992 on the Report and Financial Statements of the
 Office of the Auditor-General for 1999-2000 [RP 39-2000].

                     THURSDAY, 7 SEPTEMBER 2000

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Health:

 Report and Financial Statements of the Medical Research Council for
 1998-99, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
 Statements for 1998-99.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on the Competition Second Amendment Bill [B 41 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 31 August 2000:

   The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, having considered the subject of the Competition Second Amendment Bill [B 41 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 41A - 2000].

2. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on the UNECE 1958 Agreement on Wheeled Vehicles, dated 31 August 2000:

   The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Agreement of the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe concerning the adoption of uniform technical prescriptions for wheeled vehicles, equipment and parts which can be fitted and/or be used on wheeled vehicles and the conditions for reciprocal recognition of approvals granted on the basis of these prescriptions, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on the UNECE Global Agreement on Wheeled Vehicles, dated 31 August 2000:

   The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Agreement of the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe concerning the establishment of Global Technical Regulations for wheeled vehicles, equipment and parts which can be fitted and/or be used on wheeled vehicles, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

 Report to be considered.

                      MONDAY, 11 SEPTEMBER 2000

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 DECISION BY THE SPEAKER OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY AND THE CHAIRPERSON OF
 THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES TO ESTABLISH AN AD HOC JOINT
 COMMITTEE ON GENERAL INTELLIGENCE LAW AMENDMENT BILL, 2000 [B 36-2000]
 IN TERMS OF JOINT RULE 138


 1.     The Speaker of the National Assembly and the Chairperson of the
     National Council of Provinces acting jointly, after consultation
     with the Chief Whip of the Majority Party in the National Assembly
     and the Chief Whip of the Council have decided, in terms of Joint
     Rule 138, to establish an Ad Hoc Joint Committee on General
     Intelligence Law Amendment Bill, 2000, to consider and report, in
     accordance with Part 3 and any other relevant provisions of
     Chapter 4 of the Joint Rules, to the National Assembly and the
     National Council of Provinces on the General Intelligence Law
     Amendment Bill, No 36 of 2000.

 2.     The Committee to consist of 21 members of the National Assembly
     and 9 members of the National Council of Provinces.

 3.     The Committee to confer with the Joint Standing Committee on
     Intelligence.

 4.     The Committee to submit its report on the Bill by not later than
     5 October 2000.

 5.     The Committee may exercise those powers in Joint Rule 32 that
     may assist it in carrying out their task.

 F Ginwala    G N Pandor
 Speaker      Chairperson
 National Assembly National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister for Safety and Security:

 Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and
 the Government of the People's Republic of China in respect of Police
 Co-operation, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution,
 1996.

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry:

 Report and Financial Statements of the National Lotteries Board for
 1998-99, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
 Statements for 1998-99.

National Assembly:

Papers:

1. The Speaker:

 REPORT ON 15TH CONFERENCE OF COMMONWEALTH SPEAKERS AND PRESIDING
 OFFICERS HELD IN CANBERRA, AUSTRALIA, 5 TO 9 JANUARY 2000
 1.     INTRODUCTION

 The 15th Conference of Commonwealth Speakers and Presiding Officers was
 held in Canberra, Australia, from 5 to 9 January 2000. The Speaker of
 the National Assembly, Dr F N Ginwala, and the Deputy Chairperson of
 the National Council of Provinces, Mr M L Mushwana, attended the
 Conference.


     1.1     The following themes were discussed:


          Responsibilities of Speakers in party and multiparty
          democracies - this subject examined papers on the following:

          Anti-defection laws - role of Presiding Officers

          Authority and role of Deputy Presiding Officers

          Neutrality of the Chair and dependency on government

          What can Presiding Officers do to consolidate democracy in
          countries newly emerged from wars of liberation, dictatorships
          and one party states?

          Transformation of Parliament

          Nature of Parliamentary Privilege - which examined papers on
          the following:


              The principles that the Speaker should be guided by when
              dealing with immunities and questions of privilege
              Parliamentary Privilege and Judicial Activity

              Judicial activity and Parliament: A delicate balance


          Ethical standards in Public Life

          Creating and Sustaining a Parliamentary Service


     1.2     The Conference also considered the proposal from the
          Africa Region for more equitable representation on the
          Standing Committee.


 2.     AIMS OF THE CONFERENCE

 The aims of the Conference are the maintenance, fostering and
 encouragement of the impartiality and fairness of Speakers and
 Presiding Officers of Parliaments, the promotion of knowledge and
 understanding of parliamentary democracy in its various forms and the
 development of parliamentary institutions. The Conference is held
 biennially.


 3.     MEMBERSHIP OF CONFERENCE

 Speakers and Presiding Officers of National Parliaments of all
 independent sovereign states of the Commonwealth of Nations may be
 members of the Conference.

 A Deputy Speaker or Deputy Presiding Officer may attend a Conference as
 a substitute for his or her Speaker or Presiding Officer.


 4.     STANDING COMMITTEE OF THE CONFERENCE

 The Standing Committee, which is effectively the steering committee or
 the executive organ of the Conference, consists of a Chairperson and
 members generally representative of each region of the Commonwealth as
 defined from time to time. The Chairperson is the Speaker of the
 Parliament that hosts the Conference.

 The Standing Committee usually meets in the year preceding the
 Conference and immediately prior to and at the conclusion of a
 Conference.

 Speaker Ginwala is a member of the Standing Committee representing the
 African region.

 The Standing Committee met on two occasions during the Conference to
 discuss organisational aspects of the Conference.


 5.     OPENING CEREMONY

 The opening ceremony commenced with a procession of Speakers and
 Presiding Officers representing about 140 Parliaments. Some of these
 were not members of the Conference but had been invited as observers.

 The Chairperson of the Conference, the Hon Neil Andrew, Speaker of the
 Australian Parliament, welcomed delegates to Australia and to
 Australia's Parliament House.

 The Hon John Anderson, Acting Prime Minister, opened the Conference. He
 noted the delegates' presence in Australia at a time of historical
 significance for the host nation with the forthcoming Olympic Games and
 the Centenary of Federation celebrations in 2001. He observed that one
 of the key unifying ideals of the Commonwealth is a shared commitment
 to democratic systems of government and added that Speakers and
 Presiding Officers played a vital role in the institutional framework
 that makes democracies work effectively.

 In his address the Chairperson of the next Conference, the Hon
 Matlapeng Ray Molomo, Speaker of the National Assembly of Botswana,
 referred to the diversity that exists amongst the Commonwealth nations
 and suggested that this diversity is one source of the Commonwealth's
 stability.


 6.     RESPONSIBILITIES OF SPEAKERS IN PARTY AND MULITPARTY DEMOCRACIES


 Speaker Balayogi of India presented a paper on "Anti-Defection Laws -
 Role of Presiding Officers" and highlighted the vital role played by
 Presiding Officers in implementing India's anti-defection clause.

 Deputy Speaker Martin of the United Kingdom, House of Commons,
 presented a paper on the authority and role of deputy Presiding
 Officers. He noted that the tradition of abstention from party
 controversy followed by Speaker Boothroyd also extends to her Deputies
 in the exercise of their duties. Unlike the Speaker, however, the
 Deputies retained their party membership and continue to operate
 politically in their constituencies.

 Speaker McClean of Trinidad and Tobago presented a paper on the
 neutrality of the Chair and dependency on government. He said that
 although many Parliaments represented at the Conference incorporated
 differing structures and processes, equality, fairness and impartiality
 was what all Presiding Officers strive for. He also discussed the
 dangers that excessive dependency upon the government could pose for
 the neutrality of the Chair.

 Speaker Ndebele of Zimbabwe posed the question "What can Presiding
 Officers do to consolidate democracy in countries newly emerged from
 wars of liberation, dictatorships and one party states?" He outlined
 the process by which the Parliament of Zimbabwe strengthened both the
 role of Parliament and the democratic process as a whole. Through
 conducting seminars for Members and surveying the opinions and wishes
 of the people, the Parliament worked together with the executive
 government to implement a series of reforms aimed at consolidating
 democracy in Zimbabwe.


 7.     TRANSFORMATION OF PARLIAMENT

 The topic "Transformation of Parliament" provided delegates with an
 opportunity to share their experiences in small round table discussion
 groups.

 One of the prominent issues in the discussion groups was the impact of
 women on and in Parliament. Delegates discussed the experiences of
 their own Parliaments and debated the need for a legislative based
 quota to increase the number of women in Parliament. This raised a
 number of issues related to the effect of electoral systems on the
 diversity of elected members and the factors that hinder or facilitate
 better representation in Parliament for all social groups.

 Delegates also discussed the innovative and diverse methods employed in
 parliamentary democracies to involve citizens in the parliamentary
 process, including the nomination or appointment of non-elected
 members, parliamentary committees and consultation.


 8.     NATURE OF PARLIAMENTARY DEMOCRACY

 Speaker Ndebele presented a paper on the development, challenges and
 problems of parliamentary privilege. He asked: "What are the principles
 that the Speaker should be guided by when dealing with immunities and
 questions of privilege?" He referred to the potential conflict that may
 arise out of competition between the sovereignty of Parliament that
 protects parliamentary privilege and political parties trying to
 protect their power and ensure party discipline. He noted that freedom
 of speech is absolute but he had utilized a practice of the Parliaments
 of Australia and New Zealand, whereby a person impugned in Parliament
 is given the opportunity for their response to be recorded in Hansard.

 Later in the discussion Speaker Ndebele commented that the sub judice
 rule is observed in parliament out of courtesy just as the courts
 respect certain pronouncements of the House.

 The paper by Lord Boston of Faversham, the Chairperson of Committees of
 the House of Lords, United Kingdom discussed "Parliamentary Privilege
 and Judicial Activity". He spoke about the transformation of
 parliamentary privilege within the United Kingdom and the principles
 and criteria for change, and said that despite its ancient origins,
 parliamentary privilege must meet the needs of modern parliamentarians.
 As such the United Kingdom had initiated a process of review, whereby,
 those privileges, which are no longer relevant, are discarded. Those
 rights and immunities that are maintained are equally reviewed and
 amended to meet modern standards.

 Senator Margaret Reid, President of the Senate of Australia, presented
 a paper entitled "Judicial Activity and Parliament: A delicate
 balance". She outlined the balance between the judiciary and Parliament
 in determining and maintaining the rights and immunities of
 parliamentary privilege. She referred to a number of High Court cases
 in Australia whereby the courts have reluctantly played a role re-
 shaping Parliament through the resolution of disputes on parliamentary
 privilege.


 9.     ETHICAL STANDARDS IN PUBLIC LIFE

 Dr Najma Heptulla, the Deputy Chairperson of the Rajya Sabha, presented
 a paper on the "Need for Ethics Committees in Legislatures". She
 outlined the work that legislatures in India had undertaken to oversee
 the moral and ethical conduct of Members of Parliament including the
 establishment of ethics committees in the Rajya Sabha in 1997 and in
 the Andhra Pradesh State Legislative Assembly in 1998. In illustrating
 the importance of ethical values to legislatures she quoted Mahatma
 Gandhi's advice to persons in public life: "Restraint self-imposed is
 no compulsion ... You, whose mission in life is service of your fellow
 men, will go to pieces, if you do not impose on yourselves some sort of
 discipline".


 10.    CREATING AND SUSTAINING A PARLIAMENTARY SERVICE

 Speaker Gilbert Parent of the House of Commons, Canada in presenting
 his paper spoke of the role of the Parliamentary Service of the House
 of Commons - Canada - in serving members and referred to the change and
 innovation that the House had undergone over the past five years.

 Continuing the theme of new technology and innovation, Speaker McClean
 of Trinidad and Tobago spoke of the need to devise mechanisms to allow
 Presiding Officers to access the experience and advice of fellow
 Commonwealth Presiding Officers. He promoted the need to further
 utilize the information superhighway and suggested the establishment of
 a regular journal for Speakers and Presiding Officers, documenting the
 experiences of fellow Parliaments.


 11.    CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE

 At the previous Conference held in Trinidad and Tobago in 1998, the
 Africa Region had drawn attention to the lack of equitable
 representation on the Standing Committee. For example, Canada had one
 representative on the Standing Committee and all 19 countries in Africa
 also had only one representative on the Standing Committee.


 After much debate the Trinidad and Tobago Conference agreed that the
 Standing Committee, which was due to meet in Ottawa in 1999, should
 address the issue and report back to the Australia Conference in 2000.

 The Standing Committee's report, emanating from its meeting in Ottawa,
 which was presented to this Conference proposed an amendment to the
 Standing Rules regarding representation on the Standing Committee which
 in the opinion of the Africa group did not address the issue of
 proportional representation on the Standing Committee as had been
 agreed to at the Conference in Trinidad and Tobago.

 The Speaker of the Canadian Parliament nevertheless moved the adoption
 of the Report of the Standing Committee as presented.

 Speaker Ginwala, in maintaining that the Report did not address the
 matter of proportionality, moved the following amendment to the
 adoption of the Report:


     (1)     that the Fifteenth Conference of Commonwealth Speakers and
          Presiding Officers receives and notes the report of the
          Standing Committee of January 1999 recommending certain
          amendments to the standing rules of the Conference as well as
          other amendments which have been proposed by a number of
          members of the Conference; and

     (2)     that the Conference realises that some of the proposed
          amendments have not taken into account the universal principle
          of proportionality in representation on the Standing
          Committee. Consequently, the Conference has decided to refer
          this matter back to the Standing Committee for further
          consideration, with a view to recommending suitable amendments
          as will properly address the concerns which have been
          expressed about the necessity for proportional representation.


 The Speaker of Singapore, seconded by the Speaker of New Zealand, moved
 a further amendment that intended to adopt the Report of the Standing
 Committee while asking that the Standing Committee consider changes to
 the structure and composition of the Standing Committee.

 The amendment moved by the Speaker of Singapore was defeated by a vote
 of 18 to 19.

 After further discussions and with the leave of the Conference, Speaker
 Ginwala was allowed to clarify her amendment by indicating, in
 paragraph 2, that the principle of proportionality in the
 representation of sovereign nations on the Standing Committee had not
 been taken into account.

 The amendment moved by Speaker Ginwala was then put and adopted by a
 vote of 24 to 13 with 4 abstentions.

 The effect was that the report of the Standing Committee was not
 adopted but referred back to the Standing Committee with an instruction
 for it to take account of the principle of proportionality in
 representation of sovereign nations on the Standing Committee.


 12.    ELECTION OF NEW STANDING COMMITTEE

 The Speaker of the Parliament of Botswana, as the Parliament hosting
 the next conference in 2002, became the Chairperson of the Standing
 Committee.

 The Speaker of the Parliament of Tanzania, as the Parliament hosting
 the Standing Committee in 2001, became a member of the Standing
 Committee.

 The following members were elected to the Standing Committee:

 Africa Speaker of Kenya
 Asia   Speaker of the Lok Sabha
 Australia/New Zealand   Speaker of Australia
 Caribbean, Atlantic and the Americas     Speaker of St Vincent and
 Grenadines
 Great Britain & the Mediterranean  Speaker of the United Kingdom
 Pacific      Speaker of Fiji
 South-East Asia   Speaker of Singapore
 Canada declined nomination


 13.    CLOSE OF CONFERENCE

 Speaker Andrew thanked all delegates for their participation in, and
 contribution to the Conference and noted that their professionalism was
 an example to all parliamentarians.

 On behalf of the delegates, Speaker McClean of Trinadad and Tobago
 thanked Speaker Andrew for his role in chairing the Conference and
 added his appreciation to Senator Margaret Reid.

 Speaker Andrew declared the Conference closed.


 14.    CONCLUSION

 This Conference had the side effect of consolidating the CPA Africa
 Region. The African Presiding Officers gained the support of other
 countries in the defence of the principle of proportionate
 representation of sovereign parliaments in independent states,
 irrespective of the size of population.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development on the Cross-Border Insolvency Bill [B 4 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 7 September 2000:   The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, having considered the subject of the Cross-Border Insolvency Bill [B 4 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 4A - 2000].

                  TUESDAY, 12 SEPTEMBER 2000
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister of Housing on 29 August 2000 submitted a draft of
     the Housing Amendment Bill, 2000, and the memorandum explaining
     the objects of the proposed legislation, to the Speaker and the
     Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been
     referred by the Speaker and the Chairperson to the Portfolio
     Committee on Housing and the Select Committee on Public Services,
     respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2). National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    The following changes have been made to the membership of
     Committees, viz:


     Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:

     Appointed:  Rhoda, R T (Alt); Van Wyk, A.
     Discharged: Pretorius, I J.

     Education:

     Appointed: Gaum, A H; Schippers J (Alt).
     Discharged: Olckers, M E.

     Provincial and Local Government:

     Appointed: Beukman, F; Van Deventer, F J (Alt).

     Public Accounts:

     Appointed: Odendaal, W A; Blaas, A (Alt).
     Public Enterprises:

     Appointed: Van Jaarsveld, A Z A; Rabie, P J (Alt).
     Discharged: Odendaal, W A.


 (2)    The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to
     the relevant committees as mentioned below:


     (1)     The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Justice and Constitutional Development and to the Joint
          Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and
          Status of Women:


          Report of the Independent Complaints Directorate for the
          period December 1999 to May 2000, submitted in terms of
          section 18(5)(c) of the Domestic Violence Act, 1998.


     (2)     The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Safety and Security:


          Regulation No R.721 published in the Government Gazette No
          21375 dated 21 July 2000, Regulations for the South African
          Police Service made in terms of section 24(1)(g) of the South
          African Police Service Act, 1995 (Act No 68 of 1995).


     (3)     The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Trade and Industry for information. The Report of the
          Auditor-General contained in the report is referred to the
          Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and
          report:


          Report and Financial Statements of the Council for Scientific
          and Industrial Research for 1999-2000, including the Report of
          the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 1999-2000.


     (4)     The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Trade and Industry:


          The Council for Scientific and Industrial Research's
          Technology Impact for 2000.
     (5)     The following papers are referred to the Portfolio
          Committee on Finance for consideration and report:


          (a) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
              Africa and the Government of the Federal Republic of
              Nigeria for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the
              Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on
              Income and on Capital Gains, tabled in terms of section
              231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.

          (b) Explanatory Memorandum to the agreement.

          (c) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
              Africa and the Government of the People's Republic of
              China for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the
              Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on
              Income, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
              Constitution, 1996.

          (d) Explanatory Memorandum to the agreement.
     (6)     The following papers are referred to the Portfolio
          Committee on Transport for information:


          (a) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
              Africa and the Government of the People's Republic of
              China on Maritime Transport, tabled in terms of section
              231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
          (b) Explanatory Memorandum to the agreement.


     (7)     The following papers are referred to the Portfolio
          Committee on Transport for information. The Reports of the
          Auditor-General contained in these reports are referred to the
          Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and
          report:


          (a) Report and Financial Statements of the South African
              National Roads Agency Limited for 1998-99, including the
              Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
              for 1998-99 [RP 95-2000].

          (b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Rail
              Commuter Corporation Limited for 1998-99, including the
              Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
              for 1998-99.


     (8)     The following papers are referred to the Portfolio
          Committee on Transport:


          (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Airports Company
              South Africa Limited for 1999-2000.

          (b) Report and Financial Statements of the Air Traffic and
              Navigation Services Company Limited for 1999-2000.


     (9)     The following papers are referred to the Portfolio
          Committee on Home Affairs:


          (a) Government Notice No R.276 published in the Government
              Gazette No 21016 dated 1 April 2000, Seventh Amendment of
              the Aliens Control Regulations made in terms of the
              Aliens Control Act, 1991 (Act No 96 of 1991).

          (b) Government Notice No R.249 published in the Government
              Gazette No 20988 dated 14 March 2000, Sixth Amendment of
              the Marriages Regulations, made in terms of the Marriage
              Act, 1961 (Act No 25 of 1961).

          (c) Government Notice No R.250 published in the Government
              Gazette No 20990 dated 17 March 2000, Fifth Amendment of
              the regulations, made in terms of the South African
              Citizenship Act, 1995 (Act No 88 of 1995).

          (d) Government Notice No R.251 published in the Government
              Gazette No 20991 dated 17 March 2000, Sixth Amendment of
              the regulations, made in terms of the South African
              Passport and Travel Documents Act, 1994 (Act No 4 of
              1994).

          (e) Government Notice No R.275 published in the Government
              Gazette No 21015 dated 1 April 2000, Third Amendment of
              the regulations, made in terms of the Identification Act,
              1997 (Act No 68 of 1997).


     (10)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Finance for information and to the Standing Committee on
          Public Accounts for consideration and report:


          General Report of the Auditor-General on the Accounts on the
          National Government for 1998-99 [RP 201-99].


     (11)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Transport for information and to the Standing Committee on
          Public Accounts for consideration and report:


          Report of the Auditor-General on the Urban Transport Fund for
          1998-99 [RP 97-2000].


     (12)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Water Affairs and Forestry for information and to the
          Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and
          report:


          Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of
          the National Hiking Way Fund for 1998-99 [RP 105-2000].


     (13)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Labour for information and to the Standing Committee on
          Public Accounts for consideration and report:


          Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of
          the Manpower Development Authority of Bophuthatswana for 1998-
          99 [RP 106-2000].


     (14)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Minerals and Energy for information and to the Standing
          Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and report:


          Report of the Auditor-General on the Group Annual Financial
          Statements of the SFF Association for 1997-98 [RP 108-99].


     (15)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Agriculture and Land Affairs for information and to the
          Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and
          report:


          Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of
          the Milk Board for the 10 Month period ended 31 December 1997
          and the Liquidation Account for the period 1 January 1998 to
          31 December 1999 [RP 109-2000].


     (16)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Minerals and Energy for information and to the Standing
          Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and report:


          Report of the Auditor-General on the Group Annual Financial
          Statements of the SFF Association for 1996-97 [RP 146-99].


     (17)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Trade and Industry for information and to the Standing
          Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and report:


          Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of
          the National Supplies Procurement Fund for 1998-99 [RP 148-
          2000].


     (18)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Agriculture and Land Affairs for information and to the
          Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and
          report:


          Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of
          the Maize Board for 1998-99 [RP 149-2000].


     (19)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology and the Joint
          Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Life and Status of
          Children, Youth and Disabled Persons for information and to
          the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for consideration
          and report:


          Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of
          the South African Library for the Blind for 1998-99 [RP 151-
          2000].


     (20)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Communications for information and to the Standing
          Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and report:


          Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of
          the Universal Service Agency for 1998-99 [RP 157-2000].


     (21)    The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee
          on Public Accounts for consideration and report:


          Report of the Audit Commission in terms of section 10(3) of
          the Audit Arrangements Act, 1992 on the Report and Financial
          Statements of the Office of the Auditor-General for 1999-2000
          [RP 39-2000]. TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Foreign Affairs:

 (1)    Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
     and the Government of the Federal Republic of Germany concerning
     the project "Provincial Administration Support Programme in the
     Eastern Cape", tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
     Constitution, 1996.

 (2)    Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
     and the Government of the Federal Republic of Germany concerning
     the project "Decentralised Development Planning", tabled in terms
     of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.

 (3)    Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
     and the Government of the Federal Republic of Germany concerning
     the project "Economic and Development Policy Advisory Programme",
     tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.

 (4)    General Agreement of Co-operation between the Government of the
     Republic of South Africa and the Government of the United Mexican
     States, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution,
     1996.

1. The Minister for Public Enterprises:

 (1)    Policy Framework for an Accelerated Agenda Towards the
     Restructuring of State Owned Enterprises.

 (2)    A Summary of the Policy Framework for an Accelerated Agenda for
     the Restructuring of State Owned Enterprises.

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:

 (1)    Statutes of the United Nations African Institute for the
     Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of Offenders, tabled in
     terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.

 (2)    Explanatory Memorandum to the Statutes of the United Nations
     African Institute for the Prevention of Crime and the Treatment of
     Offenders.

1. The Minister of Health:

 (1)    Government Notice No R.567 published in the Government Gazette
     No 21245 dated 9 June 2000, List of approved facilities for the
     purpose of performing community service in 2001 by medical
     practitioners, made in terms of the Health Professions Act, 1974.

 (2)    Government Notice No 2234 published in the Government Gazette No
     21292 dated 21 June 2000, the Chiropractors, Homeopaths and Allied
     Health Service Professions Amendment Bill, 2000 published for
     comment.

 (3)    Government Notice No 644 published in the Government Gazette No
     21313 dated 30 June 2000, Authorisation in terms of section 24 of
     the Human Tissue Act, 1983.

 (4)    Government Notice No R.570 published in the Government Gazette
     No 21256 dated 5 June 2000, Regulations made in terms of the
     Medical Schemes Act, 1998.

 (5)    Goewerment Kennisgewing No R.569 gepubliseer in die
     Staatskoerant No 21255 gedateer 5 Junie 2000, Regulasies geskep
     ingevolge die Wet of Mediese Skemas, 1998.

 (6)    Goewerment Kennisgewing No R.638 gepubliseer in die
     Staatskoerant No 21317 gedateer 22 Junie 2000, Regulasies geskep
     ingevolge die Wet of Mediese Skemas, 1998.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Banks Amendment Bill [B 56 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 25 August 2000: The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the Banks Amendment Bill [B 56 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 56A -2000].