THURSDAY, 25 MAY 2000 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 14:03.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) calls upon the Ministers of Health and of Trade and Industry to establish an independent inquiry into the reasons for approximately 30 international pharmaceutical companies discontinuing manufacturing medical products in South Africa since 1994, with a view to taking possible steps to stop this disinvestment and technological drain from South Africa, with the accompanying concomitant loss of jobs and skills; and

(2) further calls upon the Ministers to take every possible step to reverse the process and to stop it from going any further.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Are there any further notices of motion?

Dr E A CONROY: Chair, I am terribly sorry. There seems to have been a misunderstanding.

Hiermee gee ek kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van die Raad sal voorstel:

Dat die Raad kennis neem -

(1) van wydlopende finansiële ongerymdhede in die Noordelike Provinsie, soos blootgelê deur die Ouditeur-generaal in opeenvolgende verslae; (2) van ongemagtigde betalings aan lede van die Noordelike Provinsie se wetgewer gedurende die tydperk wat op 28 Februarie 1998 geëindig het wat volgens die Ouditeur-generaal se verslag in totaal op R885 609 te staan kom; en

(3) daarvan dat by die Voorsitter van die Raad aangevra sal word dat hierdie aangeleentheid ingevolge Reël 84(1) as ‘n saak van dringende openbare belang in die Nasionale Raad van Provinsies bespreek word ten einde te verhoed dat sulke ongerymdhede in die toekoms herhaal word en wyses te vind waarop genoemde ongemagtigde uitgawe van die betrokkenes verhaal kan word. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the Council I shall move:

That the Council notes -

(1) the wide-ranging financial irregularities in the Northern Province, as uncovered by the Auditor-General in successive reports; (2) the unauthorised payments to members of the legislature of the Northern Province during the period that ended on 28 February 1998 which, according to the Auditor-General’s report, amounted to a total of R885 609; and

(3) the fact that the Chairperson of the Council will be requested that this matter be debated in the National Council of Provinces in terms of Rule 84(1) as a matter of urgent public importance in order to prevent such irregularities from being repeated in future and to find ways in which the abovementioned unauthorised expenditure can be recovered from those concerned.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Is there any member who wishes to move a motion without notice?

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I am sorry, but as far as I know, there were not supposed to be any motions moved today. Maybe the Chief Whip could explain.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I would like to agree with Mrs Vilakazi that that in fact was the arrangement. I was rather surprised, but it was an informal arrangement and I did not wish to suppress the right of a member to raise a motion.

Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, can I just explain? The reason for that was that Mr Mufamadi, the Minister who was going to deal with disaster management, had to be in Johannesburg early. That was the letter I got. But since we are not dealing with his Vote today, I would have thought that objection fell away.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! The Chair was not alerted to this matter in terms of the discussion the Chair has with the Table. Therefore we will proceed as indicated. Is there any member who wishes to move a motion? There are no motions, and we therefore proceed to the first Order of the Day.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                         (Review of Policy)

Vote No 15 - Housing:

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! We welcome the Minister of Housing to the National Council of Provinces.

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon members, ladies and gentlemen, during its first term of office, Government focused on making a visible impact and facilitating the delivery of housing at scale. This was done so as to ensure that an efficient delivery process would be established in order to speedily meet the needs of the homeless.

We achieved an overwhelming vote of confidence and a mandate from the electorate, and this has shifted the emphasis from quantitative delivery to qualitative measures based on needs assessment and monitoring and evaluating the impact of our policies and constantly enhancing our programmes.

We have consolidated on our gains and drawn lessons from our experiences in order to inform our future strategy. We are conducting audits so as to assess the impact of our policies and the various institutions responsible for implementing and facilitating housing delivery, in order to assess the extent to which they are carrying out their mandates.

Our focus is also improving the efficiency of our implementation, administrative and monitoring systems in order to ensure that quality houses are delivered at best value for money. Furthermore, quality control inspections and consumer protection measures, together with national minimum norms and standards, have been established in order to ensure that better quality houses are built. Developers and builders who have not complied with our standards have been penalised and ordered to rebuild houses.

Our thrust is to improve the quality of life of those who benefit from our subsidy by broadening their choice of tenure, house type and house size which they receive by creating more tenure options, such as rental and promoting high-density housing and the People’s Housing process.

Government intends to continue to apply the lessons learnt to strategic and operational policy enhancement, developing new strategies, setting realistic targets and achieving sustainable results in pursuit of the ultimate goal of a nation adequately housed. Over the past few months we have been subjected to the worst case of floods ever to hit our country. A number of houses were destroyed, leaving a lot of families homeless and destitute. A statistical survey shows that most of these were mud houses and a limited number of subsidy units. The worst hit areas were in Mpumalanga, the Northern Province, the North West and KwaZulu- Natal, with a total tally of 21 595 housing units. Out of this national disaster, which caused a lot of grief to countless people, we have been given an opportunity to deal with and manage problems posed by natural disasters generally and floods in particular. A brief investigation informs us that the problems lie with the methods used in the construction of the houses made with mud and clay. A particular weakness is the lack of adherence to minimum norms and standards laid down for the construction of houses.

My department has been in contact with technical advisors of Agrément SA and the CSIR with regard to, firstly, improved earth-building methods and, secondly, how to improve existing traditional earthen houses to make them more weather-resistant. Although a lot of expertise on the subject already exist in South Africa and many investigations have contributed to adding to knowledge on the subject, we still need a lot of research in order to be in a position where such building methods will meet with Agrément certification and the requirements of the national building regulations and the National Home Builders Registration Council. The CSIR has already applied for financial support to investigate this aspect of home building.

Our primary mandate is to house the nation in sustainable homes, and the devastation caused by natural disasters has recently increased the number of homeless people in our country. It is our responsibility to ensure that the poor, who form the bulk of households affected, as well as victims generally, are housed in sustainable homes.

As far as existing earth houses are concerned, a few fairly elementary steps can be followed which will make such houses more resistant to rain penetration and storm water damage. For instance, the existing mud or dung plaster can be replaced with mesh-reinforced plaster to strengthen and protect walls. Secondly, buildings can ensure that floor levels of houses are higher than the ground level and that water is led away from the building. Thirdly, inadequate roof members and roof covering can be replaced, whilst the installation of a ring beam at eaves’ level will further strengthen the structure. Fourthly, by installing a damp-proof course into window sills, water penetration can be limited. Lastly, by simply painting wall surfaces regularly, the life span of walls will be prolonged whilst water penetration will be prevented.

Although the above-mentioned steps seem fairly simple and basic to most, it will be necessary to launch a campaign in our deep rural areas to raise awareness and to undertake limited training in order that people can apply some or all of the above steps. Quite clearly, the new climatic conditions force us to make adjustments to cope with the incidence of natural disasters. We might not have ready-made solutions, but the above point us in the direction to be followed as an interim measure.

Over three quarters of people live below the poverty line in our country and are settled in rural areas or former Bantustans or homelands, the bulk of whom are women and children. Our role is to turn this around and provide a meaningful change. We all know that. This requires that development should be slightly biased in favour of the previously disadvantaged, especially women. Central to the allocation of rural subsidies is to provide for first-time permanent property ownership, which will write off apartheid. This will terminate the untenable situation which currently exists, that persons with informal land rights cannot access the housing subsidy.

While we are still in the process of finalising the guidelines for allocating subsidies in rural areas, we have enacted the Interim Protection of Informal Land Rights Act, which is a functional security of tenure protecting rural communities from being deprived of their property rights.

This process will see, for the first time, rural communities taking ownership of properties they have lived in for many decades without ownership. The provision of permanent ownership of property will provide the rural communities with the opportunity to participate in the property market.

We recognise that rural development should also focus on infrastructural development, job creation and the eradication of poverty, which have not sufficiently reached these communities. The recent experience of a farmer forcing his farmworkers and their children to share a house with pigs is an illustration of how seriously and sensitively housing needs should be addressed in rural areas, which from time to time experience the worst kind of racism and inhuman living conditions.

Integrated development presupposes a holistic approach to development that takes account of the full spectrum of social and economic needs of communities and organises the satisfaction of their needs through processes of spatial planning and urban design.

Local government legislation requires municipalities to prepare integrated development plans for their respective areas of jurisdiction. All integrated development plans have a spatial component that defines the structure of the built environment by designating or reserving land for a variety of uses. Municipalities control the design of urban layouts through provincial township ordinances.

Both the Constitution and the Housing Act, Act 107 of 1997, envisage that local government must play a prominent role in realising the objectives of integrated development.

The pilot project on housing, the result of the Jobs Summit, will lead to the construction of homes near well-located land. Procedures to ensure that the process was transparent were followed and construction is scheduled to begin in August 2000.

In terms of the Housing Act of 1997, municipalities have a duty to ensure that inhabitants of their areas of jurisdiction have access to suitable land for residential purposes - land that is favourably located in relation to employment opportunities and provides convenient access to a full range of social facilities and amenities such as schools, primary health care facilities and parks, including other recreational amenities.

Moreover, the Act requires municipalities to fully participate in national and provincial housing development programmes and to adhere to prescribed principles of housing development, including the pursuit of integrated development. Municipalities must promote the development of land reserved for housing purposes. They must give priority to the needs of the poor and provide in their multiterm housing development plans for the widest possible range of housing opportunities and tenure options. They must negotiate the most appropriate forms of housing delivery, depending on the financial means and circumstances of members of their communities that need adequate housing, and must assist them to gain access to subsidies and facilities that national Government has provided under its housing subsidy programme and policy in support of the people’s housing process.

Where municipalities are unable to acquire suitable land for housing development at a reasonable price, they are empowered in terms of the Housing Act of 1997 to resort to expropriation, subject to authorisation by the MEC for housing.

Norms and standards in respect of the National Housing Subsidy Programme prescribe a minimum house size of 30 m 2 subject to provincial deviations of a maximum of 3 m2 to allow for abnormal geophysical conditions. The amount that may be spent on the acquisition of land and the provision of an affordable standard of municipal services may not exceed R7 500. The minimum amount that may be spent on the top structure is therefore R8 500. These norms and standards were implemented with effect from 1 April 1999.

The maximum subsidy amounts to R16 000 plus a possible variation allowance of up to a maximum of 15% to compensate for proven abnormal conditions, such as adverse soil conditions, a high water table and land that is exceptionally steep or extraordinarily expensive.

Homes built under the National Housing Subsidy Programme vary both in size and value from one province to another and between different locations within a province. Besides permissible deviations from the national norm on account of adverse geophysical conditions and market-related geographic price variations, there are three main reasons why the size and value of homes differ between provinces.

In the first instance, the variation is attributable to the level and corresponding cost of municipal services. Some municipalities demand extraordinarily high service levels, hence the limitation of R7 500 placed on their cost. Where less expensive services are installed, a proportionally higher percentage of the total amount of the subsidy may then be spent on providing a home of superior size and value.

The second reason relates to the fact that in certain instances an additional subsidy is provided by provincial or local government in the form of a cash grant or interest subsidy on a home loan, or by making the land available for free or at a cost of less than market value. Additional provincial local government housing subsidies are permissible, provided they are transparent, equitable and sustainable and are declared on budget.

Thirdly, superior homes, both in size and value, generally result from the application of the People’s Housing Process, by which savings of up to 30% of normal building costs are achievable through collective home-building efforts. By contributing their own labour in undertaking home-building and manufacturing building materials themselves, homeless people have proven their ability to provide adequate housing that is superior to comparable contractor-built homes, provided that they have security of tenure of land with basic services, and especially if they have access to housing support, provided under the policy support for the People’s Housing Process.

With the challenge of using limited resources to the optimum, we are now exploring other creative ways of augmenting them by forging strategic partnerships with communities, financial institutions and other partners within the industry.

The department is in the process of initiating a joint project with the National Urban Reconstruction and Housing Agency to tap into the savings market to promote housing development. The mobilisation of savings will contribute to the broader, strategic economic objectives. Through this initiative we hope to support the delivery of a broad range of housing products, thus facilitating and widening housing choices and options.

In addition it is believed that this project will further contribute towards stimulating housing demand by enhancing the momentum of housing delivery. We will be making further announcements soon.

We have charges that some of the houses built with the subsidy grant are small. Norms and standards in respect of the national housing subsidy programme prescribe a minimum home size of 30 m2, subject to provincial deviations of a maximum of 3 m2 to allow for abnormal geophysical conditions. Variations that are experienced in the provinces are attributable to the level and corresponding cost of municipal services. Some municipalities, as I said earlier, demand higher payments for the services that they provide.

After six years of being in operation, we now have the opportunity to review and assess the extent to which housing delivery has touched the lives of our people. We are currently reviewing, firstly, the method of disbursing subsidies and, secondly, the instruments and institutions helping us to fulfil our mandate of housing the nation, specifically with a view to closing any gaps and eliminating any duplications where these are apparent to enable us to accelerate housing delivery.

The first part of the audit that we have conducted since the beginning of last year revealed a very disturbing incidence, although not widespread, of people selling RDP houses. We abhor this practice and, as I mentioned in the National Assembly, we will be introducing a pre-emptive clause in favour of Government to enable provincial governments to buy property back and allocate it to the next household on the waiting list.

In order to counteract this problem, we will be introducing restrictions to the title deed which will prevent the resale of subsidised housing through a pre-emptive clause in favour of Government. This will enable provincial housing departments and local governments to buy back a subsidised unit and allocate it to the next family on the waiting list, as I mentioned earlier.

We set up a task team to investigate and evaluate the old allocation formula, and it reported that the formula was complicated and inflexible and did not take into account the urban-rural spread. Instead, it gave urban areas preference. The new formula which we have used to allocate funds uses income levels as an indicator. This brings into sharp focus and prioritises low-income earners across the board, regardless of location. We recognise that poverty straddles all lanes. There are the urban poor and the rural poor, and both are given priority through this formula. Furthermore, the formula gives us a chance to decisively address the issue of poverty and homelessness in a holistic manner.

The total budget allocation for the Housing Vote is R3,333 billion, and this has been allocated as follows. The Eastern Cape will get 14%, which is equivalent to an amount of R422,2 million; the Free State 7,28%, which is equivalent to R208,3 million; Gauteng 23,9%, which is equivalent to R718,9 million; KwaZulu-Natal 19,60%, which is equivalent to R587,6 million; Mpumalanga 5,7%, which is equivalent to R173,4 million; the Northern Cape 1,49%, which is equivalent to R58,1 million; the Northern Province 8,57%, which is equivalent to R57 million; the North West 7,3%, which is equivalent to R220,5 million; and the Western Cape 11,39%, which is equivalent to R341,4 million; the The total of the subsidies is R2, 99,76 billion.

Finally, I would like to take this opportunity to take my hat off to and applaud all our partners in development: the MECs for being part of a pioneering, historical and ground-breaking initiative putting the poor at the forefront of development; some developers for rising to the challenge and producing units that we are proud of and which, although varying in size, can stand the test; our communities for taking control of their lives and joining a developmental chain that has contributed significantly to the quality of their lives; the NGOs and other stakeholders for responding to our call to house the nation in affordable homes; and, finally, the director-general and staff, and the chairperson and members of the select committee for championing the cause of the poor. [Applause.]

Ms P C P MAJODINA: Madam Chairperson, Minister Mahanyele, MECs and special delegates, I would like to convey my sincere greetings to you all.

Today’s debate is interesting and critical because housing is a centre of development, a centre of human dignity and a catalyst for a better life for all in practice. The role of local government is imperative, in this respect, in ensuring an integrated development plan in terms of housing and spatial development initiatives.

Provincial and local government should play a more proactive role in providing suitable land for housing in consultation with traditional leaders. While the integrated development plan provides a medium for local co-ordination of government activity, co-ordinated government at its national and provincial tiers of operation is very important.

It is a fact that it is only through an integrated strategy that we can successfully confront the related challenges of meeting basic needs, developing human resources and increasing participation within the broad framework of housing and social development.

State resources and the capacity to deal with the massive housing backlogs and the process of reconstruction and development in the housing sector are severely limited. We need to mobilise collective resources, capacity, knowledge and skills in the broader private sector. Employers should be innovative and ensure, because this is incumbent on them, that they know the housing circumstances of their employees and provide, within their means, advisory and financial assistance in order to improve the lives of their employees.

One must commend the rate at which the Department of Housing has moved in delivering low-cost housing, but some bolts and nuts should be screwed tight to ensure quality housing. There is a need for proper control over the allocation of beneficiaries for these houses. We therefore need well- managed surveying prior to the building of these houses. The establishment of uniform norms and standards and a clear settlement pattern is of paramount importance.

Now I want to address the rural development strategy. I am a proud product of a mud rondavel house. As this is customarily a traditional Xhosa house, one appreciates that we do not need to do away totally with the rondavel hut concept, but should rather improve it. Mud bricks can be swapped for concrete bricks. This way we kill two birds with one stone, by restoring our heritage and history, and also on the other hand, protecting the lives of our people, while we note the recent flood disasters, with special reference to mud structures which collapse and cannot withstand heavy rains, tornadoes and other related natural disasters.

The question of the day should be: How does a poor MaDlamini access low- cost housing in the village of Macacuma in Sterkspruit? We need to be cautious about rapid urbanisation, but improve the lives of our people where they are. The housing programme has a positive influence on the alleviation of poverty, as well as the redistribution of wealth, as clearly indicated in the Freedom Charter, and I quote: There shall be housing, security and comfort for all.

Housing, as an instrument for economic development, plays a significant role in the construction of residential buildings, which is highly favourable for employment creation, which assists economic growth, especially the low-import propensity and the use of unskilled labour.

Lastly, Madam Chairperson … [Interjections.] [Laughter.]

Welcome, Mr Chairperson. [Laughter.] Lastly, gender equality in human settlement needs to be aimed at creating mediums to eradicate inequities in the housing sector. It is imperative that women gain equitable access to land and property. The housing policy addresses itself to the subject. However, the legal and social manipulations within which housing delivery takes place need to be examined in order to remove inequities. I thank you, Deputy Chairperson. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

Mr G E NKWINTI (Eastern Cape): Mr Chairperson, I am pleased that the hon Suka here drew our attention to the fact that you have taken the Chair. I could myself have fallen in the same trap as Ms Majodina. I wish to commend the Minister of Housing, the hon Sankie Mthembi- Mahanyele, for the leadership she is providing in housing development in our country. The support that we get from her Ministry is always appreciated.

Let me remind the hon the Minister of what she said at Libode, in what is commonly known as western Pondoland in the Eastern Cape, when she handed over houses there recently. She said: ``Much as we are going to continue doing the same thing in housing development, laying bricks and mortar, we must find ways of doing the same things differently and better.’’ That is what she said, I am reminding her of that.

Housing is a basic human right, enshrined in section 26 of the Constitution. Section 26(2) states:

The state must take reasonable legislative and other measures, within its available resources, to achieve the progressive realisation of this right.

In an attempt to achieve this object, and more, we have laid down three basic housing delivery norms in the Eastern Cape, namely job creation, skills development and a satisfactory product. We have sequenced them in this way, and have discussed this successfully with developers, including private developers, in the province on several occasions.

We have also laid down minimum specifications with respect to a housing unit, namely a waterborne sewage facility; a tap-water facility inside the house; a cement slab on the floor; and a minimum size of 40m2. We have discussed this with them on several occasions at different workshops and none of them, without exception, including suppliers of materials, objected to this. They agreed to it. They are now working on the basis of these rather minimal specifications.

In order to achieve all this, we have strongly pushed for municipalities to be developers. This is a requirement or a specification in the Constitution of our country. This must be true even if municipalities engage consultants. They must retain responsibility for the process. We have discussed this with them and treated them as developers. There is a strong move towards this approach in the province, and for those municipalities that do not have the capabilities, we have an agreement with the Department of Labour or the Ministry of Labour to train these people and make sure that they will live up to the expectations.

We must also improve the management of the housing subsidies. It is very important that we do so, because if we do not, it is unlikely that we will succeed with these specifications and norms.

We are planning to move steadily towards allocating up to 50% of our housing budget to the People’s Housing Process in the next five years. This must be our flagship housing delivery process, because it is the only one which has the two qualities closest to the heart of Government, that is Masakhane and getting the nation to work. I do not have to repeat what the hon the Minister said in this regard. She has eloquently and, I think, adequately expressed herself on the question of the People’s Housing Process.

We have entered into various partnerships to achieve this, both public- public and public-private. That has to do with the training of our people, that has to do with all sorts of arrangements that we have entered into with the Labour department, etc. We are also focusing on management skills training because most emerging contractors can build, there is no doubt about it, but they do not have managerial skills. We are focusing on this aspect of training so that we can ensure that they move, at some point, a little bit higher than emerging-contractor status.

There are many challenges, but they are not insurmountable. Amongst them are the following: allocating funds to put towards the needs of disabled people, which is a huge challenge; kick-starting rural housing development and steadying it on course; promoting rental housing; getting people to pay for housing-related services; persuading people to service their bonds; attending to the immediate needs of victims of gross human rights violations; and subsidy distribution to land claims beneficiaries. These are amongst the most daunting challenges facing the province.

I was listening carefully as the hon the Minister was speaking there, and I noted some of those very important challenges that she mentioned that I do not have in my speech, but it is not as if we do not take account of them. We are working as a team. She is my leader, so what she said here as a wish, is my command.

These are all fundamental questions, with respect to fulfilling our constitutional obligations. We are confident that we will succeed. It is only a matter of time. [Applause.]

Dr P J C NEL: Mnr die Voorsitter, agb Minister, hierdie debat is baie belangrik, want dit spreek seker een van dié belangrikste onderwerpe aan hier op die aarde waar ons woon, naamlik behuising. ‘n Huis is nie maar net ‘n fisiese struktuur nie. Dit is by uitstek ‘n maatskaplik-emosionele ruimte waarin jou hele menswees in hierdie harde wêreld bymekaar kom, en gekoester, gevoed en weerbaar gemaak word vir die arbeidswêreld daar buite.

In die afgelope ses jaar kon die huidige Regering net daarin slaag om sowat 600 000 huise te lewer waarvan baie, soos die Minister ons meegedeel het, van swak gehalte is. Daar is dus nog ‘n geweldige tekort aan behuising in Suid-Afrika en veels te veel mense, letterlik miljoene, het nog nooit die voorreg gesmaak om ‘n eie huis te besit nie. Daar is verskillende redes daarvoor en daarom wil ek in die paar minute tot my beskikking daarop konsentreer. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Dr P C NEL: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister, this debate is very important, because it addresses what must surely be one of the most important issues here on earth where we live, namely housing. A house is not just simply a physical structure. It remains pre-eminently a social-emotional space within which one’s whole humanness in this hard world comes together and is nourished, fed and made fit and prepared for the labour market outside.

Over the past six years the present Government could only succeed in delivering about 600 000 homes of which many, as the Minister has informed us, are of inferior quality. We therefore still have an enormous shortage of housing in South Africa and far too many people, literally millions, have never tasted the privilege of owning their own home. There are various reasons for this and therefore I want to concentrate on these in the few minutes at my disposal.]

First of all, more land must be made available for development. Without continued development of land, those requiring new houses will resort to erecting disorderly squatter camps on unplanned land which, in itself, creates a big problem.

The only houses currently being built in the Free State are being built on existing land. No additional housing is therefore being created, but is merely an upgrading of formal settlements. The state owns about one third of all land in South Africa, according to the Green Paper published in

1. There is no reason to believe that the situation would be any different at this point in time. Most of this land is presently either under- or unutilised, and should be made available for this purpose.

Another serious reason for the shortage of housing is theft and corruption. In the report of the Auditor-General on the accounts of the Free State provincial housing board, it was revealed that there were various shortcomings regarding the expenditure on housing in the Free State. The report states, inter alia, that the implementation manual for housing subsidy schemes regarding the approval and payment of subsidies had not been complied with.

Contrary to the requirements of the manual, the total amount of the housing subsidy scheme was paid to relevant conveyancers or developers as soon as a scheme was approved by the board. This must be stopped immediately. Numerous instances were identified where conveyancers did not submit reconciliations to the board on a monthly basis. Interest earned on the conveyancers’ trust accounts were not paid to the board.

Certificates, the so-called ``happy letters’’ signed by beneficiaries to certify that the project had been completed to their satisfaction were, in many cases, not submitted. I personally know of some cases where happy letters were signed before the houses were built and the builder simply disappeared after being paid. This serious matter must be addressed and drastic steps will have to be instituted without delay.

Die skynbare gebrek aan ‘n goeie behuisingbeleid, veral vir die platteland, is nog ‘n aspek wat tot die vertraging in die bou van huise op die regte plekke kan aanleiding gee. In Januarie het die Regering aangekondig subsidies vir huisvestingsprojekte in die stedelike gebiede gaan drasties besnoei word en dat die geld gebruik gaan word om projekte op die platteland te bevorder.

Ek beweer nie dat daar nie huise op die platteland gebou moet word nie, dit moet egter nie gedoen word ten koste van projekte in stedelike gebiede nie, waar die werkgeleenthede eintlik is. Verstedeliking vind in elk geval plaas. As daar nie huise is nie, word mense gedwing om in plakkerskampe te woon terwyl huise op plekke gebou word waar mense nie wil of kan woon nie weens swak ekonomiese vooruitsigte.

Daar is ‘n dringende behoefte aan ‘n program vir plattelandse ontwikkeling wat nie net voorsiening maak vir behuising nie, maar ook vir grondhervorming. Grondhervorming is in elk geval ‘n baie belangrike aspek waaraan die Regering nou dringende aandag moet gee om te voorkom dat die probleem wat in Zimbabwe ontstaan het, na Suid-Afrika oorwaai.

Dit is egter verblydend om in die verklarende memorandum te sien daar gaan nou in ooreenstemming met die Grondwet gekyk word na die ontwikkeling van ‘n aankoopbeleid in verband met die behuisingsubsidieskema. Insgelyks is dit ook verblydend om in dieselfde dokument te lees daar gaan ondersoek ingestel word na die impak wat vigs moontlik op die behuisingsubsidieskema kan hê en hoe dit bestuur gaan word. In die tyd waarin ons leef, is dit sekerlik baie belangrik. Miskien kan die Minister ons vandag ‘n bietjie verder hieroor inlig. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [The apparent lack of a good housing policy, in particular in the rural areas, is another aspect that can lead to the delay in the construction of homes in the right areas. In January the Government announced that subsidies for the housing projects in the urban areas were going to be cut drastically and that the money was going to be used to aid projects in the rural areas.

I do not contend that no homes should be built in the rural areas, but this should not happen at the cost of projects in the urban areas, where the employment opportunities really are. Urbanisation is taking place anyway. If there are no homes, people will be forced to live in squatter camps while homes are being built in places where the people do not want to live because of poor economical prospects.

There is an urgent need for a programme for urban development which not only caters for housing, but also for land reform. Land reform in any case is a very important aspect to which the Government should now give urgent attention in order to prevent the problem which originated in Zimbabwe from blowing over to South Africa.

It is, however, heartening to see in the explanatory memorandum that, in accordance with the Constitution, the development of an acquisition policy will now be investigated with regard to the housing subsidy scheme. Likewise it is also pleasing to read in the same document that the possible impact of Aids on the housing subsidy scheme and how this should be managed is going to be investigated. In the times that we are living, this is decidedly very important. Maybe the Minister can inform us a bit more about this today.]

The New NP believes that all South Africans should have access to housing and have a home. The famous Charles Dickens once said: ``In love of home, the love of country has its rise’’. Donna Hedges once said: `Having a place to go - is a home. Having someone to love - is a family. Having both is a blessing. May God bless all the people of South Africa. [Applause.]

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members and comrades, the focus of my input will be on informal settlements in our urban areas.

The Minister informed us in her speech that a housing development strategy document is being developed and that stakeholders will soon get it. This will be adopted later. All this has to do with the Government’s commitment to Abantu Kuqala, people first.

In the urban areas where informal settlements are mostly found, the promotion of rental housing development through social housing is encouraged. Under some local government authorities, such as those of the cities of Cape Town and Tygerberg, housing companies that have been founded are dealing with the housing backlogs. Where there were once shacks, I am happy to say, the ANC government has now provided houses. Crossroads is a living example of this.

Mrs A M VERSVELD: Crossroads is in the Western Cape.

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: I, too, am a Western Cape member.

The ANC has kept its promise that it will provide affordable houses. I must emphasise that land release has been a major problem used by some parties for their own benefit.

Despite the fact that people still live in informal settlements in our urban areas, they have title deeds and own serviced plots. That is also an achievement, when compared to the situation eight or ten years ago.

In addition, they have water and electricity. Most of them have used the government subsidy to build formal structures where there were shacks. It has to be noted that, compared to other developing countries, our Government has done more to address the housing backlog than any other country. Countries very similar to South Africa, such as Brazil for instance, cannot be compared with us.

Forging partnerships and mobilising credit savings are some of the good strategies that have worked. The Victoria Mxenge housing development in Phillipi is a good example of this. This did not only promote housing development, but brought the fact that women can do it to our attention. Women built those houses. They were trained and developed their own houses. They are bricklayers and plasterers, they do everything that needs to be done. It also gave them the opportunity to gain credit from banks that still do not want to grant loans to women. On their own, they have topped up the government subsidy and built better homes. Whilst we have achieved so much, we cannot put aside challenges that still face us. We need to address the lack of capacity among the local authorities who form the immediate point of contact between the two spheres of government. The devolution of functions to the local sphere of government should promote integrated development.

In spite of all our gains, we have had to face the challenge of the proliferation of informal settlements, but I am happy to say that where local authorities are governed by the ANC, one can see the difference. I am making an example of my own province. I do not want to quote other provinces here. If one goes to the Cape Town City Council, one will find that there are new houses in Hanover Park today. Near Heideveld station there are new houses. In the area where I live, Lovuyoville, there will be houses very, very soon. [Interjections.] That is the result of partnership between the people and the council. We encourage our MEC to make sure that other councils do the same.

The existence of shacks is not unique to South Africa. It is a worldwide phenomenon. Ubona aMatyotyombe [One sees shacks] not only in South Africa, but everywhere that there is still a problem. [Applause.]

Mr C B HERANDIEN (Western Cape): Chairperson, first of all, allow me to congratulate the hon the Minister on her performance thus far in the process of housing delivery. The Minister should rest assured that I am not doing this because I want something. Really, since the Minister took over there has been a marked difference and an increase in the number of houses being delivered.

However, having said that, I want to bring to the hon the Minister’s attention - and she is well aware of it - that all developing countries allocate 5% of their national budget to housing. Let us face it - South Africa is a developing country. Therefore it is not acceptable that we as a housing family do not receive our full 5%. The current allocation makes provision for approximately 200 000 subsidies in this current financial year. If one takes into consideration that, in 1986, the backlog in the Western Cape was a total of 186 000 units. Now in the metropole alone it is 230 000 units. I do not want to differ from my hon colleague here, but in the past it was only the local authorities in the rural areas that performed. I am pleased to say that now, at long last, the municipalities in the metropole have decided to come on board.

I also want to make one correction. In her speech in the National Assembly the other day, the hon the Minister said that there was a unanimous decision with regard to the formula in terms of which moneys will be allocated. I just want to put the record straight. The Western Cape was not in agreement. [Interjections.] The Minister said in her speech that there was a population growth of 3,6%. Now if there is population growth, and one takes into consideration the natural migration towards cities and bigger towns, then we obviously cannot agree that the allocation for our province should be reduced. I am very glad to learn from the hon the Minister that she now agrees that there should be a pre-emptive right. I have been lobbying for this for a long, long time. There are scandalous things happening, and I firmly believe it is not only in the Western Cape. I am concerned that people sell off their houses for as little as R500. I think this is criminal. Let us do something about it sooner rather than later.

I also support the idea that beneficiaries must make a contribution towards their houses. If they get everything for free, that is where the problem starts.

Dit is dan wanneer mense nie die waarde van hulle enkele grootste besitting besef nie en dat hulle geensins omgee vir daardie geskenk wat hulle van die staat ontvang nie. Bitter min mense verstaan ook dat hulle nooit, maar net nooit weer gehelp kan word nie, of dat daar ‘n sentrale databank is wat gekoppel is aan die aktekantoor. Ek wil egter hê die agb Minister moet ons ook in dié verband behulpsaam wees, want as ‘n mens vir so goedkoop as R50 ‘n nuwe ID-boekie kan kry met ‘n nuwe nommer op, dan baat ons stelsel ook glad nie. Dit is ‘n feit dat dit gebeur en dan verwag hulle dat ons meer huise moet bou. Ons kan nie elke keer armoede net in die rondte sit en skuif nie.

Ek is ook bly dat die Minister erkenning gee daaraan dat die geotegniese toestande nie in alle provinsies dieselfde is nie. Daar is provinsies wat aanvanklik nie eens daarin belangstel om teerstrate aan te bring nie, omdat die omstandighede van hulle grond hulle toelaat om dit in ‘n later stadium aan te bring. Hier in die Wes-Kaap is dit totaal anders. Ons moet berge sandduine verskuif voordat ons ‘n enkele beweging kan maak. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[It is then that people do not realise the value of their single largest possession and that they do not care at all for that gift which they received from the state. Very few people also understand that they can never, but never again be helped, or that there is a central data bank which is connected to the deeds office. However, I would like the hon the Minister to also help us in this regard, because if one can get a new ID book bearing a new number for as little as R50, then our system is not worth much either. It is a fact that this happens and then they expect us to build more houses. We cannot continue to shift poverty around.

I am also glad that the Minister is acknowledging that geotechnical conditions are not the same in all provinces. There are some provinces that are not even interested in tarring roads initially, because the conditions of their soil allow them to do this at a later stage. Here in the Western Cape it is totally different. We have to shift mountains of sand dunes before we can do anything.]

The hon the Minister mentioned in her speech in the National Assembly that it was important that we should empower, not only our officials, but also our councillors. I think we should expand and get in touch with the Department of Local Government, so that we make a joint effort also to empower our councillors. I am sad to say that most of the problems that we encounter are the result of the lack of knowledge and understanding on the part of councillors that want to interfere in the whole delivery process.

My department has already put 70 officials through a course offered by the University of Stellenbosch - and it is the very same course that the Minister accredited at the University of the Witwatersrand. At first, when I took over the portfolio in the Western Cape, everybody laughed at me when I was answered, on being asked by a journalist about what my aim was and what I intended doing, that I had always maintained that we should educate our people with regard to housing. It is useless giving somebody something for free, when that person does not understand.

Laat ons dit vandag reguit vir mekaar sê: ‘n eenvoudige proses deur vir iemand te gaan leer hoe om te begroot is ‘n goeie begin. Die meeste van ons mense verdien hulle inkomste op ‘n weeklikse basis. Drie weke van die maand hou hulle dan partytjie, en dan wil hulle met die laaste week se geld al hul rekeninge regmaak. Daarom het ek besluit my departement gaan in die middel van Julie in vyf groot streke dwarsoor die Wes-Kaap inligtingseminare hou vir ons amptenare. Dit is tragies om te weet dat daar sommige amptenare in munisipaliteite is wat nou nog ook nie behuising verstaan nie. Daarom gaan ons byna twee weke lank uit en ons gaan van plek tot plek om hierdie mense in te lig en om hulle op te voed sodat hulle ook kan verstaan waaroor dit gaan in behuising.

Ons sal moet aanvaar dat verstedeliking met ons is. Ons kan verstedeliking nie wegwens nie. Die enigste manier is om dit behoorlik te bestuur. Daarom is ek ten gunste van in situ-opgradering, en met die verlaagde begroting het ons geen ander keuse nie. Daarom vra ek agb lede se samewerking dat ons nie verby mekaar praat nie, maar met ‘n verlaagde begroting het ons geen ander keuse nie as om dan in fases te ontwikkel, deur in die eerste jaar net rudimentêre dienste te voorsien, in die tweede jaar die permanente dienste en in die derde jaar, indien daar fondse is, die boonste struktuur. Intussen moet daardie begunstigde geleer word om te spaar sodat hy of sy kan bydra tot die eindproduk wat op die grond geplaas moet word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Let us be straight with one another: A simple process of teaching someone how to budget is a good start. Most of our people earn their income on a weekly basis. For three weeks of the month they have a party, and then they want to settle all their accounts with the last week’s money. Therefore, I have decided that my department will hold information seminars for our officials in the middle of July in five large regions across the Western Cape. It is tragic to know that there are some officers in municipalities who still do not understand the concept of housing. Therefore, for approximately two weeks we will go from place to place to inform these people and to educate them so that they can also understand what housing entails.

We will have to accept that urbanisation is with us. We cannot wish away urbanisation. The only way is to manage it properly. Therefore, I am in favour of upgrading in situ, and with the reduced budget we have no other choice. Therefore, I am asking hon members to give their co-operation so that we do not talk past one another, but with a reduced budget we have no choice but to develop in phases by providing, in the first year, only rudimentary services, in the second year the permanent services and in the third year, if there are funds, the top structure. In the meantime the beneficiary must be taught to save so that he or she can contribute to the final product which is to be placed on the land.]

Although I praised the hon the Minister at the beginning, I wish to state that on 7 September last year, my chief director and I visited her at her offices here in Cape Town, and I pleaded with her for additional funds. I understood her position at that time. She said to me that there was no other way, because she did not have more funds, and that we should go and reprioritise. However, I would urge the hon the Minister that if we do reprioritise, then it is not correct for councillors to sideline me and then go directly to the hon the Minister, as though I am not prepared to supply them with money.

We are contractually bound and for the next three years, until the year 2003, we will not be able to approve any new projects in the Western Cape. [Interjections.] It is because we do not have the funds; that is why I said people do not understand.

The hon the Minister requested all nine MECs to provide her with a three- year MTF programme, which we did. The three-year MTF programme for the Western Cape was based on an allocation of R351 million. Now the amount will be decreased over a period of three years. That is my dilemma, and people do not understand it. That is why I am asking the Minister. She promised me last year in her office that although she could not give me additional funds, at least she would not reduce our allocation.

I have one last plea to the hon the Minister. An amount of R465 million from last year was not spent, and I do not want to go into the details of who those provinces are. But, at least when it comes to round about October, each and every province should know exactly what their cash flow is and what their progress will be, so that they will know exactly if they will be in the position to spend that money. [Time expired.]

Mr M DANGOR (Gauteng): Chairperson, hon Minister, I am privileged to address this House in support of the Housing Vote. This is possibly a platform for members in the provinces to share best-practice methods, problems and how to possibly solve them.

We understand the bias towards developing the economies of provinces that do not have the capacity of Gauteng or the Western Cape, for if we do not develop other provinces, or in fact Southern Africa, people will vote with their feet, and will move to the areas where it is perceived that they will find housing and employment. We therefore support the position of developing lesser endowed provinces that do not have the economies that we have.

I am glad that the Western Cape has followed our example in establishing a training programme similar to the one we have in Gauteng. But, I want to raise issues of concern, namely the issue of the Provincial Housing Board, the issue of the waiting lists, the issue of negative equity, and the issue of devolution and accreditation. The opposition vehemently opposed us when we were passing the Provincial Housing Act in Gauteng, on the basis that we were not giving the Provincial Housing Boards the funds and the powers that they required. At that particular point in time the housing boards were the contracting bodies. They decided where their money should be spent, who should spent it and in fact who owned the assets.

I am sure that most of us, including the New NP and DP, now, against the background of problems that we have had, support that the department should become the contracting organ of the state. It is important that the elected office bearers and persons assume responsibility for the political decisions that they were elected for, not unelected stakeholder boards which represent particular interests.

We also need to thank the Minister and the Portfolio Committee on Housing and Land Affairs for playing an advocacy role, ensuring that the housing capital Vote is now passed in the provincial legislatures, that the Provincial Housing Boards are now subject to very rigorous oversight by ourselves, and for also ensuring that the Provincial Housing Advisory Boards are now defined as reporting entities in terms of the Public Finance Management Act. We could say to the DP and the New NP ``we told you so’’, but we welcome a healthy change of attitude on this matter. I am sure this points to the folly of opposition purely for the sake of it.

A second issue that I wish to raise is that of the provincial housing waiting list. Our MEC has launched a new provincial housing waiting list, ensuring transparency and accountability. There are no longer municipal waiting lists; there is only one provincial waiting list. This new policy requires that recommendations from offices of the department are based on clear criteria, and that the MEC for Housing is the only person allowed to make changes to the housing waiting list in our province.

What we will be ensuring is that land mafias and other populists, including some latter-day revolutionaries who are encouraging poor people to invade land, do not mislead poor people. No land invaders will be allowed to jump the queue. In fact, queue jumpers will be at a very distinct disadvantage. We are conscious that when we are delivering goods and services from the state to beneficiaries some will benefit before others, thus the integrity of the waiting list is important.

A new issue has arisen. I think our policy is to build in well-located land, close to jobs and other facilities, but we have been receiving petitions, and I want to talk about one particular petition. The residents of Tsakane have raised the question of negative equity. The issue is that they had bonded houses for R100 000. The local authority decided that they would put RDP houses next to those houses. The value has gone down to R50 000 and R80 000. Value is perceived, for value is based on market movements, how much a house is sold for in the same area. Value is not the price of bricks, mortar and labour to build a home.

We are now investigating and we hope that, together with the Minister, we will be able to formulate a policy around this issue. I think we need to look at the British experience with regard to negative equity. A synopsis of the British experience is as follows. People’s confidence in the British economy as a whole, and more specifically in the housing sector, led to a general state where rising property values became a secure source for borrowing. When the negative equity crisis struck, rates of inflation were extremely low, and the real price falls in the housing market were not sheltered by high inflation rates, as happened when the real price falls took place between 1973 and 1977.

The areas of London which were experiencing negative equity were known for low unemployment amongst residents and confidence in the availability of jobs, and an even higher confidence in the overall economy existed at that particular point in time in England. So it did not happen in a negative growth economy; it was in fact a high growth economy when negative equity struck.

Two groups of people really got caught in that crisis. It was low-income, blue-collar workers living in cheaper dwellings who created negative equity but composed the vast majority of those homes affected. Those people with two salaries and trading up, people who normally were buying one house, fixing up the house and trading up, were in fact much worse affected, because when negative equity struck they did not get the value of their houses to be sold and they could not have upward mobility because of this.

But, it is true to say that no two countries have the same issues when it comes to negative equity. In South Africa we have a different situation. We are not living in the same situation as in England, where it was a booming economy. In fact, some of our areas are very level and flat. Some local authorities actually established values for houses in areas such as Houghton, I am sure also in Sea Point or Constantia in the Western Cape, where people cannot build a house of a lesser value next to a particular house. But what this is creating is a policy gap that we need to address, and I am sure that the Minister will look at that.

On the question of devolution and accreditation: although it is the aim to devolve some of the housing functions to local government, we should, in the light of the Auditor-General’s report on this issue, move rather cautiously on this path. One of the possibilities is that we seek matching finance between the provincial and local governments. Local authorities could start providing serviced land, which qualifying beneficiaries could repay out of service payments over a 30-year period, which will be a very minimal amount. The provincial government could then provide enhanced top structures for beneficiaries earning up to R3 500 or the top subsidy figure, whichever is determined, for those qualifying to receive a subsidy. We could create the enabling environment that the national Government has already started creating through the interventions of the Masakhane campaign, the Mortgage Indemnity Fund, Servcon Housing Solutions and Thubelisha Homes.

We need to normalise the political risk for lenders, but their economic risk would have to be examined more carefully. Most microlenders are bordering on the usury limit. They are leading people into an inescapable debt trap when they, in fact, are not taking a great risk when they lend to people who have pensions against which anyone can claim.

We would need to investigate why microlenders are targeting public servants specifically and particularly. They have put up boards all over the show specifically for public servants, calling them to come to them to get money at usurious rates of almost 30% when the prime lending rate could be between 13,5% and 14%. We need to look at those issues very carefully.

A healthy and fair lending market can create conditions in which workers will have the necessary finance to improve their own housing stock in order to suit their needs. We are catering for the people who do not have the capacity to build for themselves, and the free market is catering for those who are earning above R6 000 a month. But there is a gap which needs to be filled, particularly where workers are concerned, and nobody is actually looking at this quite seriously. Therefore we are developing policy on that.

Another matter of concern is the question of possible double subsidies. We have persons who move from one province to another trying to get housing loans and housing subsidies. We need to look at what the deeds offices are doing and how we can co-ordinate their activities in order to ensure that we do not have double housing loans.

Again we want to thank the Minister for looking at the pre-emptive clause, which has been a matter of concern to us. The question of Aids orphans is really rearing its ugly head in our province at this particular point in time. I am sure the state will develop a policy around institutional housing for these very unfortunate young children that we need to cater for in the future. That is another policy issue that we need to look at.

I also want to … [Time expired.]

Mev A M VERSVELD: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek is baie bly om vandag van die Minister te verneem dat daar wetgewing ingedien gaan word wat die verkoop van gesubsidieerde huise gaan raak, want ek glo dit is werklikwaar ‘n probleem, selfs ook aan die Weskus.

‘n Volgende probleem is mense wat ‘n gesubsidieerde huis, maar ook ‘n ander woning het, en dan verhuur hulle hierdie gesubsidieerde huis gewoonlik aan enkelouers wat nie ‘n hoë inkomste het nie. Ek voel dit is totaal onregverdig, en miskien moet die Minister ook daarna kyk dat ‘n mens nie ‘n gesubsidieerde huis aan iemand anders kan verhuur nie, want waarom moet ‘n mens ‘n subsidie kry as jy reeds ‘n woning het?

Voordat ek met my toespraak begin, sal ek darem graag net wil reageer op die vorige spreker wat gepraat het oor die goeie behuising wat die ANC-rade in die Wes-Kaap verskaf. Ek wil vir agb lede sê in Hopefield is die swakste huise gebou. Ek het daar ingegryp. Daar is 120 huise gebou waarvan 64 nie eens toilette gehad het nie. Die Wes-Kaapse Behuisingsraad het ná drie besoeke besluit dat die munisipaliteit reg aan daardie huise moet laat geskied en die huise moet regmaak.

Dit is jongmense, en aangesien ‘n huis veronderstel is om vir ‘n mens ‘n bate te wees, moet dit nie op die ou end ‘n las wees vir die mens wat hom gekry het nie. Hulle kan nie eens aan die huise aanbou nie. As dit reën, verkrummel die stene sommer. Dit is dus nie in al die ANC-beheerde rade wat dit so goed gaan nie. Dit is maar seker in enkeles, as daar wel is. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Terwyl ek na die Minister geluister het - ook verlede week tydens die werkswinkel oor rampbestuur - het ek net besef die Regering sal gou moet kyk hoe hulle mense kan help, veral in die plattelandse gebiede, waar ek glo die rampe die mense die ergste getref het. Hoe kry ‘n mens weer vir daardie mense strukture op die grond? Ek het gedink dit is tyd dat ons absoluut innoverend begin kyk na alternatiewe behuising.

Die behuising waaroor ek graag vandag wil praat, is huise wat van strooibale gebou word, en ek is nie hier besig om die grap van die drie varkies te vertel waarin die wolf die strooihuis omgeblaas het nie! Ek glo daar is regtig plek vir strooibaalhuise, veral op die platteland en ook in die rampgeteisterde gebiede.

Ek is baie trots om te kan sê die eerste strooibaalhuis in Suid-Afrika is op ‘n plaas aan die Weskus gebou. Dit is ongelukkig nie die boer se werkers wat daarin bly nie, maar sy skoonseun, wat ‘n advokaat is, en dit is ‘n pragtige huis wat ek begeer.

Die rede hoekom hierdie strooibaalhuise veral vir die platteland goed is, is dat die breedte van strooibale veroorsaak dat die mure baie dik is. ‘n Mens kan dit dus nie in ‘n stedelike gebied bou waarvan die erwe te klein is nie. Op die plase is dit egter ideaal.

Mense het altyd ‘n persepsie oor iets en as ons nou vir ons plaasmense of selfs vir onsself ‘n huis van strooi op die plaas moet gaan bou, gaan almal sê dit is ‘n afskeephuis, terwyl dit eintlik nie is nie, en wel om die volgende redes.

Dit is baie ekonomies, want ongeskoolde mense en selfs kinders kan dit bou. Ons het nou so ver gegaan dat hulle aan die einde van die jaar by Kalbaskraal ‘n omheining vir ‘n skool met strooibale gaan bou. Die boere het die bale gegee, maar die gemeenskap en die kinders moet self die muur bou, en dit is baie maklik om dit te bou.

Dit is baie ekonomies, want die materiaal is baie lig om te vervoer - strooibale weeg tussen 13 kg en 15 kg - en om aan te pas by die struktuur van ‘n strooibaalhuis, wat nie sulke strak lyne soos ‘n regte steenhuis het nie, kan ‘n mens maklik tweedehandse deure en/of vensters gebruik, wat dit nog meer ekonomies maak. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die prys van strooibale wissel tussen R1,50 en R1,80 in oestye. Ná oestyd word dit so ‘n bietjie duurder. As die oestyd verby is, kan die prys styg tot so ongeveer R2,50 per strooibaal.

Hierdie gebou kan gepleister word met klei, kalk, sement of ‘n mengsel van bogenoemde. [Tussenwerpsels.] Ek is baie opgewonde oor die gereedskap wat gebruik kan word, want hierdie mense het net nodig ‘n vleismes, ‘n hooimes en, soos ons in Engels sal sê, ‘n ``weed-eater’’, oftewel ‘n randsnyer.

Ek glo ‘n huis is nie net die gebou wat daar staan nie - dit is ook wat binne-in die huis is. Hulle is besig om ‘n skool in Darling van strooibale te bou. Binne-in sny hulle al die plekke vir rakke in die kaste met ‘n randsnyer uit. Hulle sit die rakke in, en dit is baie goedkoper en baie meer ekonomies.

Ek kan ook vir agb lede sê daar word geweldig baie bespaar op energieverbruik - ek dink dit is die grootste pluspunt - omdat strooibale ‘n baie goeie isolasiemiddel is. In die winter is dit warm en in die somer is dit koel. As ‘n mens dus verwarmers of verkoelers moet gebruik, hoef dit vir ‘n baie kort tydsduur aangehou te word, want die bale hou die warmte of die koelte binne. Dit is ook baie vinnig om te bou, en daarom is dit veral in rampgebiede wenslik. Die mure van ‘n vertrek van 20 m2 word in een dag gebou. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs A M VERSVELD: Mr Chairperson, I am very pleased today to learn from the Minister that legislation is going to be submitted which will affect the selling of subsidised houses, because I really believe that this is a problem, even on the West Coast.

Another problem is people who own a subsidised house, but who also have another house and then rent their subsidised house, usually to single parents who do not have a high income. I feel that this is totally unfair, and perhaps the Minister should also look into one not being permitted to rent a subsidised house to someone else, because why should one receive a subsidy if you already own a house? Before I start with my speech, I would just like to react to what the previous speaker said about the good housing which the ANC councils in the Western Cape are providing. I want to tell hon members that in Hopefield the worst houses were built. I intervened there. One hundred and twenty houses were built, of which 64 did not even have toilets. After three visits the Western Cape Housing Board decided that the municipality should do justice to these houses by repairing them.

These are young people and since a house is supposed to be an asset to one, it should not eventually become a burden to the one who received it. They cannot even extend these houses. When it rains, the bricks start crumbling. It is therefore not true that it is going well in all the ANC-controlled councils. Perhaps this is true for a few, if there are any. [Interjections.]

While I listened to the Minister - also last week during the workshop on disaster management - I just realised that the Government will quickly have to look at ways of helping people, especially in the rural areas, where I believe the disasters affected people most severely. How does one get structures on the ground again for those people? I have been thinking perhaps it is time that we start looking absolutely innovatively at alternative housing.

The housing about which I want to talk today, comprises houses which are built from straw bales, and I am not trying to tell the joke about the three pigs in which the wolf blows over the straw house! I really believe that there is a place for straw bale houses, especially in the rural areas as well as in the disaster areas.

I am very proud to be able to say that the first straw bale house in South Africa was built on a farm on the West Coast. It is unfortunately not the farmer’s workers who are staying in that house, but his son-in-law who is an advocate, and this is a beautiful house which I desire.

The reason these straw bale houses are especially well suited to the rural areas, is that the width of straw bales results in the walls being very thick. One can therefore not build such a house in an urban area where the plots are too small. On the farms, however, this is ideal.

People always have a perception about something and if we now should go and build a house of straw for our farm people or even for ourselves on the farm everyone is going to say that it is a second-rate house, while it actually is not, due to the following reasons. It is very economical, because unskilled people and even children can build it. We have now progressed so far that at the end of this year at Kalbaskraal a fence for a school will be built with straw bales. The farmers donated the bales, but the community and the children must build the wall themselves, and it is in fact very easy to build.

It is very economical because the material is very light to transport - straw bales weigh between 13 kg and 15 kg - and to adapt to the structure of a straw bale house, which does not have such fixed lines as a real brick house, one can easily make use of second-hand doors and/or windows, which makes it even more economical. [Interjections.] The price of straw bales ranges between R1,50 and R1,80 during harvesting times. After harvesting time it usually becomes a bit more expensive. When harvesting time is over, the price can increase to approximately R2,50 per straw bale.

This building can be plastered with clay, lime, cement or a mixture of the above-mentioned. [Interjections.] I am very excited about the tools which can be used, because these people only need a butcher’s knife, a pitchfork and, as we would say in English, a weed-eater.

I do believe that a house is not merely a structure which stands there - what is inside is also important. They are busy building a school in Darling made of straw bales. Inside they use a weed-eater to cut out all the areas for racks inside the cupboards. Then they put in the racks and this is much cheaper and much more economical.

I can also tell hon members that a lot is being saved in terms of energy consumption - I think this is the greatest plus point - because straw bales are a very good source of insulation. During winter it is warm and in summer it is cool. If one therefore has to use a heater or an air- conditioner, it need only be switched on for a very short period of time, because the bales retain the warmth or the coolness inside. It is also very quick to build, and therefore it is especially expedient in disaster areas. The walls of a 20m2 room can be built in one day.]

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, is the hon member prepared to take a question?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Are you prepared to take a question, hon member?

Mrs A M VERSVELD: Ja, meneer. [Yes, sir.]

An HON MEMBER: You are being told to do so.

Mrs A M VERSVELD: Ag, ``shut up’’, man! [Oh, shut up, man!]

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Ek wil net graag weet of dit die DP se beleid is. [I would just like to know whether this is the policy of the DP.]

Mrs A M VERSVELD: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek kon nie hoor nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] [Mr Chairperson, I could not hear. [Interjections.]]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! That hon member over there is interrupting the proceedings of this House. What is your question, Mr Sulliman?

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Mnr die Voorsitter, my vraag aan die agb lid is of die strooihuiskonsep die beleid van die DP is. [Mr Chairperson, my question to the hon member is whether the straw-house concept is the policy of the DP.]

Mrs A M VERSVELD: Mnr die Voorsitter, dit is nie noodwendig ‘n beleid van die DP nie, maar dit is slegs ‘n idee vir die DP. [Gelag.]

Die mure van ‘n vertrek van 20m2 word in een dag gebou, want dit is nie nodig om ‘n fondament te grawe nie. Die bale word bo-op die grond geplaas, staalpenne van 1,5 m lank word in elke derde baal ingeslaan en dan word dit in ‘n ``shutter box’’ geplaas sodat dit nie uitmekaarval nie. Pale word in die hoeke geplaas om die dak te stut.

As ons kyk na die behuisingsubsidie in die land en die grootte van die gebou wat ons daaruit kan kry, wil ek vandag vir agb lede sê as ons R18 000 het, kan ons so ‘n huis van 60m2 groot bou. Dit is die totale koste wat daar in berekening gebring is. ‘n Berig in die Environmental Building News van Oktober 1994 lui soos volg:

A fire-testing in New Mexico found that a plastered 18-inch straw bale wall survived fire penetration in excess of two hours, after which the flame source was discontinued, and even an unplastered wall survived for 34 minutes. In one house a candle left burning in a niche that was carved into a straw bale started a fire. The fire completely burnt the wooden surroundings and the figurines in the niche, but the exposed unplastered straw in the niche did not sustain the fire. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs A M VERSVELD: Mr Chairperson, this is not necessarily a policy of the DP, but this is merely an idea of the DP. [Laughter.]

The walls of a 20m2 room are built in one day, because it is not necessary to dig a foundation. The bales are placed on top of the ground, steel pins measuring 1,5 m are inserted in every third bale and then it is placed in a shutter box so that it does not fall apart. Poles are placed in the corners to support the roof.

When we look at the housing subsidy in the country and the size of the building we can get out of that, I want to say to hon members today that if we have R18 000, we can build a 60m2 house. This is the total cost which has been calculated. A report in the Environmental Building News of October 1994 reads as follows:

A fire-testing in New Mexico found that a plastered 18-inch straw bale wall survived fire penetration in excess of two hours, after which the flame source was discontinued, and even an unplastered wall survived for 34 minutes. In one house a candle left burning in a niche that was carved into a straw bale started a fire. The fire completely burnt the wooden surroundings and the figurines in the niche, but the exposed unplastered straw in the niche did not sustain the fire.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, you are one minute over your time because of the question.

Mr P D N MALOYI: Mr Chairperson, they have done it again. I complained last time, but it seems as if they do not want to listen. I said my initials were P D N, but they decided to put me down as P D M, and I do not know why. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]

Before I address this House I just want to check with you, Chairperson, because my eyes are not good, whether it is parliamentary for that hon member over there, Taabe, to wear such bright colours in this House. [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, that might apply to your jacket as well. [Laughter.]

Mr P D N MALOYI: Chairperson, hon Minister of Housing, MECs present here today, permanent and special delegates, I bring greetings to everyone from the beautiful province of the North West. I am going to try to address issues which were not addressed by all the other speakers. [Laughter.]

I want to say to the Minister that quality control is still one of the major issues in housing delivery. Ideally, since municipalities approve building plans in terms of their by-laws, the responsibility and public liability regarding structures fall under their jurisdiction.

This obviously will work in areas where capacity exists. Hence we are of the opinion, and we want to agree, that the implementation of the Housing Consumers Protection Measures Act will be of great advantage to our province. Housing can be used as a catalyst - and I am using this word because it is one of the buzz words today in this House - for economic development in some areas and can also contribute to a rural development strategy that will counter exodus to the urban areas and possibly alleviate the burden of mass urbanisation on smaller municipalities. If we do not do this, Gauteng and the Western Cape will continue to suffer. So it is necessary to address this as speedily as possible.

Tenders and developers are at the moment not required to provide performance guarantees to either provincial housing departments or municipalities as is the case in many capital developments. At the same time the individual subsidy is used to pay for interest in bridging finance amounting to between R250 and R500. It is noted that the provincial housing development board is allowed to approve bridging finance for public sector developers at market-related interest rates. This does not necessarily help the situation, as chunks are always taken up from the subsidy amount.

To address this situation, we are suggesting that the developer be required to provide a bankable guarantee and an advance not exceeding 80% of the guaranteed amount, payable in advance at predetermined milestones. This will tie down the developer to performance and will also make the amount allocated for interest and finance charges available to be used to enhance the top structure.

Individual subsidies are currently being managed in terms of the developer- driven individual subsidy system for groups of more than five. There is a moratorium on all other applications of individual subsidies. We are of the opinion that there are cases that necessitate that the approval of such subsidy payment be effected from the housing department and that construction be monitored in co-operation with the municipalities as well as the NHBRC as opposed to the payment of the moneys into the attorneys’ trust accounts.

There is a need, obviously, to establish a programme to fully implement the discount benefit scheme and the development of a strategy to devolve assets and functions to municipalities. [Applause.]

Mr R M NYAKANE: Madam Chairperson, if I were asked to indicate the Northern Province’s hierarchy of needs in terms of the basic, essential needs for that area, I would indicate unemployment, which is standing at about 46%, roads infrastructure, health amenities and, of course, housing.

However, for the information of the Minister, on 13 April we had a meeting for Greater Giyani regarding Masakhane, which all the stakeholders attended. At that particular meeting there were very important issues discussed, and we commended the Minister for her effort and work done in the Northern Province. We realise that there are quite a number of RDP houses which were erected in those areas such as Minga Village, Dzumeri RDP and Chuenespoort.

As we were discussing Masakhane, some issues emerged that took the form of a paradox. We shared these problems and we felt that the Minister should take note of these observations. These RDP houses were built, and the people who were allocated those houses are selling them and those who buy them use them as tuck shops.

Another observation is that the majority of the houses are not occupied in those areas. Another is that there is vandalism. People are breaking them and there is a lot of wastage of the taxpayer’s money in that respect.

One of the problems that emerged in that meeting is also that there are houses which formerly belonged to the former homeland Ministers and cabinet Ministers which are, until today, not allocated, and there is also a lot of vandalism going on there. These were the concerns of the Masakhane members at that meeting.

I would like to thank the hon the Minister because I hear she is reviewing her approach to the provision of housing. As she is in the process of reviewing, I would request that she look into the issue of why so many houses are not occupied.

The second issue is that of those houses being sold to the haves, who now do business in those areas. There are some criminals. I know of places there where criminals are using those structures as their hiding places.

I know I always have a problem of time, so I think I will have to stop there.

Mr B KOMPHELA: (Free State): Madam Chairperson, maybe it is a question of mistaken identity on the part of certain hon members, but Steve Komphela is my brother, not me. [Laughter.]

I want to tell members and the hon the Minister that I come from a free state of mind, with free houses that are adequately and correctly given to our people in the Free State.

I stand here today, the 25th of May, to unequivocally support the budget of the Minister of Housing and to say she is on course in housing our nation. We are saying that although previously there were serious distortions and spiral development which was not co-ordinated, I think today we are setting the pace for a very co-ordinated, gentle, decent manner in which our people can be housed in this country.

The dispensation that continuously insisted that our people live far from their workplaces, with no means of transport, has come to an end. The budget that the Minister has presented also decisively deals with the urban bias that was shown by the last regime, and we would not be surprised if other people complained about the inadequacy of this budget. It is precisely the fact that the ANC-led Government does not mince its words when it gives its commitment to rural development.

And, indeed, we appreciate that a large portion of the money focuses on rural areas where most South African citizens live in deplorable conditions, which is an insult to our people and their dignity.

The vision of the Freedom Charter has been realised. The budget will never be enough to address the backlog of decades of colonialism and apartheid. However, it is pleasing to note that the budget will achieve more with less. There are many measures that have been taken into consideration that, at least, will ensure that we are able to handle and control the situation. The National Housing Registration Council has set aside a budget that seeks to control and uphold building standards, and that is a step in the right direction because that is going to give us correct standards. We applaud the hon the Minister for setting up this kind of structure.

For quite a long time our people have been victims of unscrupulous developers who will stop at nothing to make money, even if it further deepens the scars and wounds of poverty. A number of developments have not been completed by developers, but developers have got away with the money. With the NHRC in place, the standard of security for our people is ensured.

The housing policy seeks to do away with the housing subsidy and focus vigorously on a project-linked subsidy system, the most competent and reliable vehicle for dealing with the backlog in the most integrated and structured manner.

The last point that I just want to make concerns the Minister as an activist for the disability rights movement. I think it would be wrong of me not to draw to the attention of this House the fact that many of our comrades with disabilities have not been housed adequately, because the subsidy amount has been allocated blindly, without taking into consideration the size of the houses, and of the bedrooms in particular, of our comrades in wheelchairs, as well as how they are going to get into the bathroom. That has not been addressed. I think I would be failing as a disability rights activist if I did not say to the Minister that, whilst housing the nation, there are those masses of people who are confined to wheelchairs and those who walk on crutches to whom the country has not given adequate attention. [Applause.]

Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Chairperson, hon Minister, honourable special guests and equally honourable members of this House, the past financial year has seen Mpumalanga’s housing delivery and human settlement programme grow, no longer in numbers, but in quality and other forms of innovations. It has long become a norm that housing provision is no longer a mere roof over one’s head, but a package of services on land, with security of tenure or title deed.

Within the housing department in Mpumalanga there is a land administration directorate which facilitates integrated development planning processes in this province. In this regard, I must mention that the development tribunal has approved applications for 3 832 sites from various municipalities.

During the past year the province set itself a target of 17 394 units and has attained a remarkable 82% of that target. As mentioned earlier, the target was not only related to numbers, as could be witnessed in the top structures delivered at Balfour and Greylingstad. The minimum size of the top structures in these two towns was improved from the normal 32m2 to 54m2.

In order to attain the above and other improvements the MEC for housing had to do some drastic policy rethinking. Amongst other things, the housing delivery process was removed from the hands of unscrupulous developers and consultants and restored to the rightful hands of the custodians of development and service delivery, that is the MEC himself and the local councillors.

Apart from strengthening the bonds of partnership between the three spheres of government, this new interaction has enabled the communities to gain a closer insight regarding the challenges and constraints encountered by the national Government and provincial governments. People in the province now often talk of themselves as building their communities, whereas in the past they talked of the Government allocating houses. That is the reason the People’s Housing project, initiated in KaNyamazane, received such a spontaneous and positive response when it was launched. This project of 250 units is being implemented by Vukuzimele Women’s Organisation, and is financed by the Mpumalanga Housing Finance Company, another innovative creation which will mostly assist the rural homebuilders who are continuously sidelined by the mainstream financial institutions. Aspirant home-owners from the R293 and R188 towns will, hopefully, be catered for by this new institution.

This is, of course, a pilot project. Such partnerships with the people will prevent some lamentations as espoused by the hon member Dr Nel, when he complained about the poor quality of housing. That blame can be placed squarely at the door of the previous developers and consultants.

It is no longer there because, in most cases, people are building the houses themselves.

During the past year the project-linked subsidy programme delivered 4 860 homes to new owners. The hostel redevelopment programme in Witbank provided home units to 48 families out of disused hostels. The individual subsidy programme yielded 853 units, while the institutional subsidy programme is expected to deliver 2 000 units by the year 2001.

Capacity-building of the partners involved in housing delivery has been receiving priority attention in the province. At present officials of the department, councillors and officials of municipalities are being trained in initiating and managing the housing delivery process. A total of 68 people are involved in the programme, mostly at university level.

Despite the successes attained by the province in delivering housing and developing land, the problem of squatting still looms large in many of our communities. The situation is aggravated by the continuous influx of unregulated immigrants from Swaziland and Mozambique into our province. A question arises in my mind: Does Mpumalanga’s budget allocation cater for one province only or for another two undeclared provinces as well?

The fury of Gloria and Eileen set us back by flooding and washing away some of our housing projects and other infrastructure. Damaged houses were, however, rebuilt by developers who repaired them at their own cost.

The Department of housing in the province is heartened by the empathy shown by this House and the national Government when the province was struck by floods. [Applause.]

Mr J O TLHAGALE: Madam Chair, hon Minister, hon House, housing in South Africa is a complex problem. It is compounded by the fact that it is intended for the poor and the low-income earners whose financial circumstances automatically exclude them from the home loan market.

A debate of this nature often deteriorates into mudslinging, accusations and counter-accusations between the opposition parties on the one hand and the majority party on the other. Whether we attribute the problem to the legacy of apartheid or to the so-called Bantustan system, the problem remains and cannot be wished away. And when we condemn the present efforts and achievements as being of substandard quality, we are not solving anything.

I want to start off by commending what the department has achieved thus far with the limited resources at their disposal. However, one has to point out that there is still scope for improvement regarding the size of the product, its quality and durability. For a long time in the past we had denigrated the four-roomed houses as matchboxes. Yet, today we find it difficult to produce a better product in terms of size, quality and durability.

The housing programme has thus far not yet spread to the rural areas, but when one travels through the villages, one is struck by the improvement that is taking place. In almost all villages one sees rural dwellers forming hard-cement bricks from which they produce a beautiful house in terms of size, quality and durability.

In the farming areas of the North West farmers had, for some time, been paying a levy to the district councils in return for which they received grants to improve the housing of their employees and provide them with water, electricity and toilets. [Applause.]

Mr M V NGEMA (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, hon Minister, permanent delegates and fellow special delegates, I am addressing you today, representing the chairperson of the KwaZulu-Natal provincial portfolio committee on housing. Our Minister of Housing in KwaZulu-Natal, the hon Mr D H Makhai, presented a report to the KwaZulu-Natal parliament in which, among other problems, he cited the following: Lack of local skilled people, projects located on steep landscapes, completion of sites providing no room for future expansion, and lack of liaison among all stakeholders, which leads to problems such as the case where Eskom put up power lines in violation of building plans.

I wish to apologise for the fact that I have not been able to hear the hon the Minister’s address, which I believe dealt with most of these problems.

Self-help was the anchor principle of our struggle which won us our political freedom. Self-help is the principle that will still see us through the most difficult task of housing the homeless masses of our land. I think focusing merely on the house has led to housing schemes providing no room for future expansion, as was picked up by the Minister as one of the problems.

It seems to me that if the Minister, and all of us, focused on ensuring that adequate-sized sites became our primary principle around which our housing delivery policy was planned, we would be laying a good foundation. In future houses could then be enlarged and upgraded to meet changing needs which occur with the passage of time, such as an increase in family size, the improved earnings of the subsidy recipients and having a dependent parent or parents.

In the present situation developers, in pursuit of financial gain, skimmed off as much of the subsidy as they could and ended up providing these meagre houses.

It seems to me that if we went the way that I have just proposed, we would be going a long way towards ensuring that people build on their own. The provision of adequately-sized sites should lay a foundation on which self- help can grow from strength to strength.

Self-help initiatives such as housing co-operatives, savings and credit co- operatives or credit unions enable people to house themselves, including providing themselves with access to affordable finance, mostly their own, and the additional finance from outside sources can merely add to what people have amassed themselves. Housing co-operatives would also ensure that members are equipped with the skills required to produce the different components of a decent house, including block making, manufacturing of doors, windows and relevant frames. Assistance to communities to boost the above-mentioned activities could go a long way towards advancing and improving our housing programmes. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Chief M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, the most exciting moment in a rugby game is the scoring of a try. The most exciting moment in boxing is a knockout, and the most exciting moment in cricket is the hitting of a six.

An HON MEMBER: Or fixing a match! [Laughter.]

Chief M L MOKOENA: However, the most exciting moment in government is to have this wonderful Minister of Housing who is dedicated and committed to her work. [Applause.] She is one person who can get out in front and stay there by raising the standards by which she judges herself and by which she is willing to be judged.

The Northern Province has taken great strides in the direction of meaningful housing delivery in the past five years. Naturally, it was not a free-flowing process, as numerous obstacles were encountered. However, we have sought to ensure that these pitfalls are a source of inspiration rather than despair.

Given the predominantly rural nature of the province, any meaningful housing programme will have to reach out to our people in rural settlements. For example, houses are being built in Kgoši Malele’s area. Houses are being built in Kgoši Mhinga’s area. Another set of houses has been built in Kgoši Masiya’s area. Again, houses have been built in the area of yours truly, that is me, Kgoši L M Mokoena. [Laughter.]

This picture dispels the myth that traditional leaders do not want these houses to be built in their respective areas. In areas where Makgoši are reluctant for these houses to be built in their areas, the cause is the behaviour and conduct of some of our councillors on the ground.

However, to ensure a measure of sustainability and the enhancement of the socioeconomic spin-offs, the housing problem will have to be located within the context of an integrated development strategy. To this end, we have ensured that each housing project is located within a clearly identifiable nodal point.

One major policy aspect that we have to tackle is related to the standards in terms of quality and the size of structures. The province has introduced a benchmark of 40 square metres, and tighter monitoring mechanisms were put in place to ensure that developers adhere to rules that were laid down. The reason for this is that some of these houses are not user-friendly.

I have a high regard and respect for hon Mr Tlhagale. I agree with him about some of the things he said, but I also do disagree with some of what he said. Unfortunately, when arguing with him, people might not notice the difference! [Laughter.]

I would like to say to the hon the Minister that there are some things that need to be corrected as soon as we can do so. In some cases, as was rightly and correctly put by some members, these houses are allocated to people who are not deserving of them. It came to our notice that, in some instances, for one to get a house, one had to grease the hands of those in charge. We are, again, reliably informed that there are some businesspeople or syndicates who use innocent, poor people to acquire those houses. When the allocation is done, those unscrupulous and selfish syndicates will then own these houses and later sell them at exorbitant prices. We would like to urge the hon the Minister to use her might and the means at her disposal, and even her knuckles, to crush and flush out these unsympathetic corruptors of our society.

The Minister knows, as I do, that God’s judgment is simple: We should come to Him, or go to hell. We are so fortunate to have this kind of Minister who always makes the right move at the right moment. She is one of the few leaders who can step on someone’s toes without marring the shine on their shoes. [Laughter.] When the going gets tough, the tough get going. She is not one of those leaders who wonders when things happen. She is not one of those who just wants to see things happen, nor is she the kind of leader who is surprised when things happen. However, she is one of those rare leaders who make things happen.

In Sepedi, we have a saying: Tloga tloga e tloga kgale. Modiši wa’ kgomo o t šwa natšo šakeng. Kgaetšedi, o e swere! [The early bird that catches the worm. You have it, my sister!]

The Northern Province supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, from time to time, we hear and read reports on malpractice and corruption at various levels of Government relating to the provision of housing by the state. Hon Mr Komphela also had something to say about that.

There is the well-reported case of the SA Land Development Organisation, or Saldo, which is currently under investigation, because Saldo allegedly drew some R30 million before delivering any houses. The company is now in voluntary liquidation and it is under investigation by the Heath Special Investigation Unit. There are many more examples. Our President, speaking in London on 22 May, said, and I quote him:

People that hand over keys to new home owners sometimes demand R1 000 key money.

He was using this as an example of corruption. We congratulate, of course, Judge Heath on his good work in combating and preventing corruption and protecting state assets. There are 127 proclamations to investigate allegations of corruption that have yet to be published by the Department of Justice. And, as the Minister knows, Judge Heath cannot start his investigations without the proclamation. Judge Heath recently pointed out to us in Parliament that state assets of great value are at risk, pending the publication of the proclamations. And we know many of these proclamations relate to housing and to property development.

We thus call upon the Minister, with respect, because we share the sentiment that she is doing a good job. But, we call upon her, quite sincerely, to use her influence in Cabinet and with her colleague the Minister of Justice, to get the Department of Justice urgently to publish the proclamations, some of which we understand are outstanding since 1997, so that we can help root out corruption in housing provision, which touches the poorest of the poor. We respectfully request the Minister to give the House the assurance that she will do so today.

According to Judge Heath the Government has lost enormous assets as a result of the delay in issuing these proclamations, and I know that the Minister is just as anxious as we are to root out corruption. Perhaps the Minister will lend weight to Judge Heath regarding the need for such proclamations to be published in the first place, because nowhere else in the world, with any investigative unit like the Heath commission, is it necessary to proclaim before one does anything.

It is no good that our President is currently in the United States calling for help for the poorest of the poor, when in our own country huge amounts of money are lost owing to corruption and the squandering of resources aimed at the relief of the poor.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

Mr M DANGOR: Chairperson, is the hon member prepared to take a question?

Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, no. [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, hon member Durr. Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, can the Minister also tell us whether she has been consulted and can she perhaps cast some light on the proposed new tax on property that everybody is talking about? We do not seem to be able to get an answer from anybody. Many people are fearful about being unable to sustain their property rights because of the rumours that they hear. We know that this Government likes transparency and so we would be delighted if the Minister has been consulted and if she can cast some light on it. We would like to hear if the rumours are true. If they are true, what is proposed is completely out of line with property rights conventions anywhere in the world.

What we cannot do is to dump the national poverty problem on home owners in proportion to the market value of their properties.

Ms B THOMSON: Chairperson, hon Minister, special delegates and hon members, I want to tell Mr Durr that rumours will always be rumours. We cannot waste time on rumours. [Laughter.]

The inequalities caused by the apartheid regime’s housing policy have given us a unique opportunity to empower our people, especially the emerging home- building sectors. Our democratic Government’s housing delivery programme has created an enabling environment for these emerging contractors and for job creation in general.

The historical and economic constraints faced by emerging small and micro businesses in the home-building sectors are huge. They were faced with a situation in which the apartheid regime consciously neglected the building of new low-cost houses. Where such low-cost housing schemes were built, a select minority of firms in the home-building sector were given these tenders. The firms to whom the tenders were given were without exception white. This blatantly unfair, discriminatory practice undermined the full participation of the small and predominantly black home-building sector. Given this unequal pattern of development in the home-building sector, the ANC Government has committed itself to bringing these small businesses into the mainstream of economic activity.

The Government is actively taking steps to ensure the increased participation of black-owned and black-controlled construction businesses in the production of quality houses. Government believes that emerging construction-related small and micro enterprises in the housing sector can contribute significantly to the realisation of key economic and redistribution objectives for a number of reasons.

Firstly, they can be powerful generators of income and employment opportunities, since they generally use less capital investment per unit of output than larger enterprises. Secondly, they can be more competitive than larger firms on certain types of small and geographically dispersed projects because they generally have relatively lower overheads. Thirdly, the relatively low entry barriers in terms of skills, that is technical and managerial skills, and capital requirements make them an important entry point for historically disadvantaged persons into the construction industry.

Given the above, they can lay the foundation to deracialise the construction industry if they provide a platform for future medium-sized and large-scale firms owned and controlled by historically disadvantaged persons.

The promotion of small-scale emerging construction businesses is particularly relevant for our rural areas. Not only do the rural areas need housing, but they also need local economic development on a sustained basis.

These small-scale housing construction businesses are mostly labour intensive. This means that they will be able to employ people in the rural areas and provide them with skills. These skills can then be used by rural people to start their own businesses with funding that is made available by the Government for this purpose, and they can in turn employ more people.

From the above it is clear that the development of emerging contractors will have a positive effect on job creation and will lead to an improvement in the quality of life of our people in the rural as well as urban areas. However, before we successfully implement this process, we will have to remove some of the obstacles which impede the ability of emerging contractors to access contracts, such as poor access to finance and the public procurement process.

Some initiatives have already been taken to open up opportunities for emerging contractors, such as the National Empowerment Fund and the 10- point programme of the Department of Public Works. In short, what we are saying is that emerging companies should not be born as emerging companies and die as emerging companies, because that is what is actually happening with these big giants that are too greedy to share some of the wealth with them. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Kea leboha mme. [Thank you, madam.] I thank hon members for the interesting debate. I would just like to appeal to my MEC Mr Herandien to realise the fact that when it comes to certain issues confronting the country, we need to take responsibility and behave like good citizens and mature politicians.

We decided to have within the housing Minmec a situation where there is communication and interaction. And why did we take that decision? We wanted to make sure that this very critical area called housing, relating to the poor and the homeless, is actually given the best effort and energy by those who have been given the responsibility to provide shelter to the nation, whether they be ANC, IFP or whoever. And that is the spirit within which we have been working ever since I joined the department.

Secondly, we have made sure that when we interact and communicate in that unit we look at the broader picture. That is why even I as Minister feel that I need to communicate with my MECs and that we must take decisions that we will uphold. The ``I’’ factor and the party interest factor have been removed, because we are dealing with a really hard and heavy problem.

We have decided that we will review the formula that has been in place since 1994. This formula was amended in 1995 and upgraded at the end of

1. We have decided that we need to have a review this financial year of the last formula of 1998/99, because of a number of experiences, one of which has been that we still confront a very huge backlog, and also because we thought it was time for a review. We are reviewing all of our activities, and we will amend where necessary and reinforce and enhance where necessary.

We decided to come up with a new formula which is going to weight and balance the picture in terms of development within the country. Since 1994 the bias has been towards the privileged provinces. I call them privileged provinces in terms of the formula that was used and which was based on a 1,2:1 ratio. We felt that it was time that we redirected our efforts to the rural areas so that there should be balance. We came up with a balanced formula which is based on a 50:50 ratio. That is why we decided to make a review.

However, we also did so in order to make sure that as responsible citizens and people who are mandated with the task of providing shelter to the poor, we maintain a balance. I would appeal to my colleague to remember that approach, sentiment and passion towards housing delivery.

I am also worried about the fact that when we discuss the issue of the budget we come to a point where I have listened to my colleague protest, rant, rave and complain. We know that we had a budget that has had to be balanced as we go along. We started with roll-overs because we did not have the capacity and people on the ground did not have the experience, but we now talk of expenditure patterns that are very encouraging.

It is not true that there is an unspent amount of R465 million - it is not true at all. I look at the budget regularly and that is not true at all. [Interjections.] What we have in the provinces are committed amounts. The amount that has not been spent relates to the personnel aspect in the department, because we had not completed the transformation process. However, we have finally done so, and that amount of money that has been rolled over in the past one-and-a-half years is now going to be utilised because the structure has been approved. So it is not true that we have not spent R465 million.

Part of the amount of money that has not been spent is the R75 million from the Jobs Summit fund which was allocated to the department in October 1999. After that allocation we had to adhere to procedures of tender, invite business plans, short-list and also make sure that we get projects and proposals identified … [Interjections.]

Mr K D S DURR: … it is a serious question.

The MINISTER: I am not taking any questions.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Address the House through me, hon member. That is the procedure of this House.

The MINISTER: I am not taking any questions. I am providing this House with the opportunity to understand where we are coming from. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Mr Durr, you must address the House through the Chair.

The MINISTER: Madam Chairperson, we are going to begin to spend the R75 million in August this year, because we have to make sure that our systems are transparent. We have to make sure that the proposals that are coming forward are providing us with an integrated approach to development. We have to make sure that the projects are going to be located at appropriate spots. So I would like us to deal with the issue of the budget in a mature manner. [Interjections.]

It is equally not true that the approach that Gauteng has taken is equivalent to that which the Western Cape has taken. These are two completely different provinces with two completely different intentions. [Interjections.] We still have patterns of bias in the Western Cape, where certain councils are complaining about the fact that they have been discriminated against because they belong to certain political parties. People have brought forward evidence. Unfortunately, as a national leader, I cannot refuse to meet people who come forward with complaints. I am not going to close my ears when people bring to my attention those issues that need to be addressed. I am a national leader and I will listen to all people who want to talk to me. [Interjections.]

I would also like to address the issue of the budget in terms of whether it is going up or down. The budget, in relation to the provinces, has increased to about 4,06%. It has decreased to a value of 5,556% because the SIPPS, or special presidential projects scheme, has been completed. That is why that amount of money has been removed from the budget. That is the status of the budget.

We also applaud provinces, including the Western Cape, which are making sure that our primary programme on capacity-building and training gets the attention expected from the provinces.

In response to Mr Nel’s comments, I would like to remind him of the fact that he needs to go back and look at the progress report on housing. To date the figures reflected show that we have produced more than 993 000 units and processed more than 1,113 million subsidy applications. So Mr Nel is actually quoting incorrect statistics. [Interjections.]

On the issue raised about conveyancers, I would like to say that we have put together a task team which, by the way, is representative, and which is going to make sure that we liaise very closely with the Fidelity Fund - they have come to see me and we want to solve the problem - in order to make sure that the interest accumulated in terms of the money that is being channelled through the conveyancers goes back to the initial resource base, and to make sure that the corrupt activities of lawyers come to a stop. We have actually brainstormed some of the actions that we would like to take in this regard.

I would also like to remind members of the fact that we approved the rural housing subsidy policy in 1999 in order to facilitate rural housing development. We are also going to make sure that we curb the rate of rural- to-urban migration by making sure that, indeed, rural development takes place in earnest, and that whatever activities take place generate economic development and impact on economic growth. In addition, we are going to make sure that those people who would like to remain in the rural areas are able to earn some kind of a living. So we are waiting for the Presidency to announce the rural development strategy, after which we will be able to outline the kind of programmes that the integrated cluster units will be conducting in the rural areas.

The issue of corruption has been raised. It is true that there are corrupt and fraudulent activities on the ground committed by developers, beneficiaries themselves, some of the councillors and some of the officials in some provinces. However, all of these issues have been taken up and the SAPS have assisted us greatly in making sure that the culprits are brought to book. Court cases are taking place and people are serving sentences.

On the matter of outstanding issues that have been reported to my department, very soon we will be announcing the instrument that we are going utilise to further impact on the issue of corruption within the subsidy market. I would like to assure the hon Durr that the issue is being closely handled by the Department of Justice, as well as by my officials and me. We will make an announcement very soon. However, both the Department of Justice and Cabinet have taken a decision that, because of the amount of work that needs to be done, we might be needing an additional instrument to that which is available and headed by Judge Heath. We are going to continue to make sure that we deal with the issue.

It is not true, as the hon Dr Nel claims, that I spoke of a number of units that are of poor quality. That is not my statement. It is a statement that has been presented in the press and is alleged to have been my statement. It is incorrect. It is completely incorrect. We do have units that we are not happy with, but the number of such units is far apart from the number of the sustainable stock that was produced on the ground. Even when we were worst hit by the floods, we only recorded about 13 units of the RDP houses that had been affected by the floods. I am just trying to show the comparison in terms of the kind of problems we have.

However, that should not remove the fact that we need to make sure that the quality of our stock improves. That is why we made an announcement early in June, that our priority over the next five years would be to make sure that we improved on the quality and begin to make sure that the instruments and agencies that we put into place assist us to accelerate further in making sure that we provide good quality stock.

We have carried out pilot projects on the ground and if one should go to Gauteng, particularly the Newtown precinct, and one looks at some of the rental pilot projects, then one would understand the kind of quality that I am talking about. All of those are for low-income earners. We are therefore on track in terms of moving from chasing numbers to making sure that we produce quality stock.

Those individuals, either developers or local authorities, who do not adhere to the subsidy manual will have to deal with the Special Investigating Unit to explain to us why they are moving away and shifting from policy requirements. We are therefore going to deal with that issue of corruption, and announce steps that will be taken in terms of the different categories of corruption and concerns that have been raised.

This includes the issues that were raised by the Northern Province. I would like to request in this respect that the two colleagues do give me more detail, because in about one and a half weeks’ time we would like to move on such issues. I would like to gather detail of where these units are and, where possible, how many units are affected and, where possible, who the individuals are that are responsible for selling RDP houses, for turning RDP houses into spaza shops or shebeens or whatever. I have been given reports on all sorts of things. We want to deal with that matter. Of course, those given the responsibility on the ground to make sure that that kind of thing does not happen and who have not done their work, will also be attended to.

I think an issue has been raised by the hon Dr Nel which is very important. It is the issue of the housing strategy and the policy on HIV-Aids. We do have on the desk a draft of what we think could be a provisional strategy to apply in terms of how we see ourselves playing a role in relation to the epidemic. We will obviously have to make sure that there is consumer education on the epidemic, as the rest of Government is doing. We will also have to make sure that we continuously look at the statistics in terms of population growth, migration, and inability and disability caused by the epidemic. But we will also have to ensure that when we look at the survey and the statistics, it helps us to have better planning patterns, and to manage our budget better. I think it is a very critical area which Housing has to interest itself in.

With regard to the issues raised by Ntate Thlagale, I would really like him to join the rest of us in making sure that we become very objective when we deal with the issues of poverty and homelessness in the country. Then we can play our party gimmicks when we go to elections. We should begin to carry with us those of the population who are homeless, and those who do not have adequate shelter. We should assist them in understanding the housing policy, take them through the housing programme and make sure that they understand the systems that have been put in place to assist them to access their rights. In that way the constitutional requirement, as reflected in the Constitution, will be properly adhered to by this responsible body of members of Parliament, despite our party affiliations.

It is not true that the RDP houses are all small. It is not true at all. In those situations where the houses are small, I have indicated in my speech that there are different reasons for that kind of size. One of the reasons is that developers who are accessing the subsidy are either the kind of developers who do not want to assist us to provide and deliver adequate housing or the kind who want to generate exaggerated profits. However, on the ground we also have had a responsible developer who has helped us to deliver our 16 000 units of about 40 square metres.

Thirdly, the hon member needs to understand the fact that what we are providing as Government is a basic shelter. It is a foundation, a start-up shelter, which the beneficiary has to add value to, by making sure that they join us in the savings campaign to improve on the plan which they have and add on to achieve the size of house that they want. Government on its own cannot deliver the kind of bhazabhaza houses [huge houses] that people are expecting. Even if we have a 10% growth rate we will not be able to do that at all.

One also needs to understand that where people, especially in the rural areas, have adopted the People’s Housing Process they have responded to this very policy that the hon member is criticising, namely the policy of supporting people on the ground to build on their own. If the hon member had listened carefully to my speech, he would have heard that if people do that, they do contribute at least 30% savings, and that in effect gives them a bigger house. Let us therefore be responsible as those who are coming from an environment where we were disadvantaged.

The hon member of Gauteng has also raised very critical and crucial issues in relation to what we need to do within the environment. I think it is time that we continue to develop the partnership which is growing between Government and the private sector, but in particular the financial institutions and the banks, where we are looking at better lending patterns and better models and instruments that will help us absorb the majority of those who earn below R3 500.

I think the securitisation and gateway programme is, to a great extent, going to assist us to tap into that market. It is also going to open another avenue where we attract investors to come into the environment and the market, so that they share the risk with us. I think that is one thing that we are doing. Secondly, we have to realise that as we draw from these experiences, it is true that we will have to deal with our environment in a manner that shows understanding of what we are dealing with.

When we deal with negative equity in our environment, we also have to bring on board the issue of having to educate home owners, to educate communities, to educate neighbours on issues regarding the deracialisation of society, and ensuring that the NIMBY syndrome does not stand in the way in terms of us having to begin to create communities and neighbours that can share the environment, as a contribution towards nation-building but also as a contribution to making sure that our people from different cultures, from different classes and from different former locations begin to understand and know each other.

I think that as the Department of Housing we are very proud of having introduced, within the environment, a situation where we have beneficiaries across the board, including the Mr Swanepoels who are now becoming consumers of our subsidy policy.

However, I also want to say that what we need to do in view of what has been raised by the representative from Gauteng is to go back to the drawing board and try and negotiate acceptable interest rate requirements from the microlending division. I say this because we have a number of institutions acting as middle men. I think we have more than 17 now, but I am not sure of the latest statistics. They have come into the environment to play the role that was supposed to have been played by the financial institutions, because there was a political problem, an attitude problem and a perception problem. So I think, when we deal with them, we need to take that fact into consideration. However, I do not think all of them will need that kind of attention from us. It is a valid issue that has been raised.

I also want to say that another closer look into the Usury Act will really benefit us, taking into consideration some of the initiatives that are being put into place.

I also appreciate the fact that everyone is agreed that it is time that we apply the pre-emptive clause and make sure that people do not abuse the RDP houses, and that we ensure, at the same time, that people do not abuse the situation of those who are genuinely homeless. We must make sure that we halt the process of people taking RDP houses and using them for needs and requirements other than what they are meant for.

I want to say that whilst we are looking at this whole finance issue and at ways of trying to empower the low-income earner, we also need to begin to strengthen and enhance those areas of our policy that do not necessarily fall within the realm of market requirements and build on those. I think that by the time we come back to add another element into our requirements, which I do not want to pre-empt in this House, we are also going to uphold that decision as Minmec and will not individually go out and denounce the collective decision.

I think it is time that we go further than talking about empowering the disadvantaged and move beyond talking about the emerging smaller enterprises that Ms Thomson was talking about. We in housing must come up with specific requirements that are going to make sure that some of the principles that we have put into place and the decisions that we thought had to be taken are actually adhered to. So let us go to that practical level, because I think work has been done in this respect.

Lastly, I would like to thank our colleague from the Free State for supporting us in the work that we are doing. I also want to say that we did announce in 1998 a variation on the subsidy which caters for the needs of the disabled. We would therefore like to have more people like him and ourselves joining hands in making sure that the specific needs of those who are differently abled are met. In this way, we ensure that when the construction process begins, we can actually identify the number of units that are supposed to be allocated to the disabled so that they are given the proper attention and specifics that we announced in 1998, in relation to the subsidy of the disabled, and in relation to the required specifications that are needed in the houses that are supposed to accommodate the disabled. So we are with him in that respect, but I think we need to move further and make sure that that decision actually gets to be implemented.

Finally, I would like to say that as we leave to go back to work, let us be a nation at work, dig the trenches, sweat, roll up our sleeves, and empower our communities on the ground. We need to appreciate the fact that those who have courageously adopted the Peoples’ Housing Process have to date delivered on their own - determined as they are as an entity - more than 5 000 houses that we are very proud of. Those houses range from measuring 40 square metres, in fact that was the size of the first unit which I looked at in 1998, but currently we are talking of units as big as 105 square metres. They have added value to our subsidy through the saving scheme, and that is why we are inviting the broader community to join us in joining hands with those who have initiated processes. We want to try and make sure that people do engage in making sure that we tap from other resources within the environment to add value to our subsidy and to our budget so that we do not become a nation of mourners, but a nation at work that can improve the quality of the lives of our people around ourselves and in our neighbourhoods.

I am happy that Mrs Verveld is here. Unfortunately, in our policy, we do not market and promote individual developers. So we are not going to promote the so-called ``straw’’ or thatch houses. The people on the ground have been given the power and the ability by the Constitution, the Bill of Rights and our policies to have a variety of options and to be able to choose from all those options. So whether it is cheap or it is of a good size, that is not for us to decide, but it is for individual households and for the individual entities, for individual groups to go for the best option on the ground. If that particular developer wants to have a show house he can go ahead and the people will make their choice.

However, I would like to emphasise the fact that we are going to be very strict in this term of office by trying to make sure that we adhere to some of the issues that I have raised in my speech. It is time that we looked at good, quality stock and made sure that the building material that is being utilised is the best. It can be the best and yet be accessible and cheap, by the way. We must make sure that people adhere to certain specifications and where they do not adhere thereto, penalties will be meted out and action will be taken. That is why we have the registration council and Housing Consumers Protection Measures Act. They are there to make sure that we now get down to the business of the day, and that is producing better, quality stock.

I want to congratulate all housing practitioners. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

            ROAD ACCIDENT FUND COMMISSION AMENDMENT BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

Order disposed of without debate.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.

The Council adjourned at 16:40. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                       WEDNESDAY, 24 MAY 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bill was introduced in the National Assembly on 24
     May 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:
     (i)     General Intelligence Law Amendment Bill [B 36 - 2000]
          (National Assembly - sec 75). The Bill has not yet been
          referred to a committee. [Explanatory summary of Bill and
          prior notice of its introduction published in Government
          Gazette No 21084 of 14 April 2000.]

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Select Committee on Economic Affairs on the UNIDO Constitution, dated 24 May 2000:

   The Select Committee on Economic Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Constitution of the United Nations Industrial Development Organization (UNIDO), referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said UNIDO Constitution, and reports further that it supports South Africa’s envisaged membership of UNIDO.

 Report to be considered.

                        THURSDAY, 25 MAY 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 25 May 2000 in terms of
     Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bills as section 75
     Bills:


     (i)     Firearms Control Bill [B 34 - 2000] (National Assembly -
             sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security -
             National Assembly).


     (ii)    Local Government: Municipal Electoral Bill [B 35 - 2000]
             (National Assembly - sec 75) - (Portfolio Committee on Home
             Affairs - National Assembly). 2.    The Speaker and the Chairperson:


          (1)      The following papers have been tabled and are now
          referred to the relevant committees as mentioned below:


     (1)     The following paper is referred to the Standing Committee
          on Public Accounts for consideration and report. It is also
          referred to the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence, the
          Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security and to the Select
          Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs for
          information:


          Report of the Auditor-General on the Secret Services Account,
          the Related Departmental Accounts and the Security Services
          Special Account for 1998-99 [RP 125-99].


     (2)     The following papers are referred to the Portfolio
          Committee on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology and to the
          Select Committee on Education and Recreation:


          (1) Government Notice No 1466 published in the Government
              Gazette No 20692 dated 10 December 1999, Amendment of
              Item 8 of Government Notice No 1584 of 4 October 1996,
              made in terms of section 10(2)(a) of the National
              Monuments Act, 1969 (Act No 28 of 1969).


          (2) Government Notice No 127 published in the Government
              Gazette No 20705 dated 10 December 1999, Board Notice No
              127 of 1999, made in terms of section 11(7) of the Pan
              South African Language Board Act, 1995 (Act No 59 of
              1995).


          (3) Government Notice No 128 published in the Government
              Gazette No 20705 dated 10 December 1999, Designation of a
              Provincial Language Committee: KwaZulu-Natal, made in
              terms of section 8(8) of the Pan South African Language
              Board Act, 1995 (Act No 59 of 1995).


          (4) Government Notice No 52 published in the Government
              Gazette No 20820 dated 28 January 2000, Designation as a
              conservation area: The Air Force Base Swartkop in
              Pretoria, made in terms of section 5(9) of the National
              Monuments Act, 1969 (Act No 28 of 1969).


          (5) Government Notice No 83 published in the Government
              Gazette No 20837 dated 4 February 2000, Approval of
              official place names by the National Place Names
              Committee.


          (6) Government Notice No 158 published in the Government
              Gazette No 20877 dated 18 February 2000, Application for
              registration of heraldic representations and objections
              thereto, made in terms of section 7A and B of the
              Heraldry Act, 1962 (Act No 18 of 1962).


          (7) Government Notice No 159 published in the Government
              Gazette No 20877 dated 18 February 2000, Registration of
              heraldic representations, made in terms of section 10 of
              the Heraldry Act, 1962 (Act No 18 of 1962).


          (8) Government Notice No 160 published in the Government
              Gazette No 20877 dated 18 February 2000, Registration of
              heraldic representations, made in terms of section 10 of
              the Heraldry Act, 1962 (Act No 18 of 1962).


     (3)     The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee
          on Housing and to the Select Committee on Public Services:


          The Report of the Department of Housing for 1999 [RP 74-2000].