THURSDAY, 12 OCTOBER 2000 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 14:00.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr C ACKERMANN: Chairperson, I give notice that at the next sitting of the Council, I shall move:

That the Council notes that -

(1) eight provinces in the RSA received funds from the contingency relief fund for the disasters caused by heavy rain and storms in their respective areas;

(2) the Western Cape experienced a similar disaster during March this year in which roads and bridges were swept away, causing heavy damage to communities and farms;

(3) the Government blatantly ignored the Western Cape’s application for assistance to the province from the contingency relief fund to rebuild roads and bridges and to restore damages,

(4) and therefore calls on the Government to honour its commitment to disaster-struck communities in the Western Cape such as the Little Karoo, Central Karoo and the Southern Cape and to fulfil its obligations.

Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek gee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van die Raad sal voorstel:

Dat die Raad -

(1) kennis neem van ons dankbaarheid dat ‘n verkiesingsdatum aangekondig is, maar besorgd is oor die feit dat 5 Desember 2000 in die middel van Ramadan is, dat universiteitstudente dan reeds weg is van die plekke waar hulle geregistreer is, dat dit reeds in vakansietyd van baie ander mense is en dat dit gedurende oestyd van talle landbouers en seisoenwerkers is; en

(2) ‘n beroep doen op alle kiesers dat hulle die belangrikheid van hierdie gemeenskapsverkiesings vir al ons mense sal besef en hulle daarby sal aanpas en na die stembusse sal gaan en vir die DA sal stem. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I give notice that at the next sitting of the Council I shall move:

That the Council -

(1) notes our thankfulness that an election date has been announced, but that we are concerned about the fact that 5 December 2000 is in the middle of Ramadan, that university students will then already have left the places where they are registered, that it falls in the holiday time of many other people, and that it falls in the harvest time of many agriculturalists and seasonal workers; and (2) calls on all voters to recognise the importance of these community elections for all our people and to reconcile themselves thereto, to go to the polls and to vote for the DA.]

Mr M I MAKOELA: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) wishes to take this opportunity to welcome the unveiling of the ANC Election Manifesto by the President last weekend in Beaufort West;

(2) endorses the manifesto which is easily understandable and carries fundamental promises on the needs of the people such as job creation, the fight against poverty and the building of safe and secure communities;

(3) supports the programme of providing basic minimum services of water and electricity to the poor who are unable to pay for such services;

(4) recognises that this does not absolve those who are able to afford services to pay for them in terms of the Masakhane campaign;

(5) endorses the message of honest and caring councillors who interact with their communities;

(6) congratulates the President for his dedication to speeding up change in South Africa and the rest of the Continent; and

(7) reaffirms that together we will speed up change.

Mr K D S DURR: Madam Chair, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) takes note that the annual number of notified malaria cases and deaths has risen dramatically in the past decade from 4 693 cases and 19 deaths in 1991, to 10 289 cases and 12 deaths in 1994 and to 51 535 cases and 402 deaths in 1999; and

(2) therefore requests the Minister of Health to take urgent note and to institute an inquiry with a view to taking decisive action.

Ms E C GOUWS: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) notes with concern the fact that health facilities in the Eastern Cape ran out of condom supplies three weeks ago and that new supplies were only received yesterday;

(2) recognises that -

   (a)  condoms are an important weapon in the fight against the spread
       of HIV/Aids; and


   (b)  the Government's own ABC campaign, launched last week, is
       dependent on the availability of condoms; and

(3) expresses its dissatisfaction with the ANC government nationally and in the Eastern Cape for its ineffectual handling of the fight against HIV/Aids.

Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That, in the light of the reply of the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development, Mr Penuell Maduna, to a question put by Mr P A Matthee on 3 October 2000 in the Council to the effect that he has decided to advise the President to put the new section 49 of the Criminal Procedure Act, 1977, into operation with effect from 1 December 2000, and whereas -

(1) this new section basically limits the use of force in effecting an arrest that may result in the death or serious injury of the person who is to be arrested, to those circumstances where such force is used in self-defence or in defence of another person;

(2) South Africa has the highest level of violent crimes in developing countries and more South African Police Service officials are killed in the line of duty than in any other so-called stable country; and

(3) the putting into operation of this new section will seriously hamper the South African Police Service in the execution of their duties and further endanger the lives of our police officials,

the Council now therefore urges the President not to put the said section into operation, but to refer it back to Parliament and more specifically to the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Development of the Council for further deliberation and possible further amendments thereto.

                OUTRAGE AT RACIALLY MOTIVATED ATTACK

                         (Draft Resolution)

Chief M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes with shock and outrage the barbaric behaviour of a group of whites who allegedly painted the face of a 17-year old person with faeces and forced him to eat his own excrement;

(2) further notes that this overtly racist incident follows shortly after a number of racially motivated attacks on blacks over the past year;

(3) believes that deeds such as this show a blatant disregard for the integrity and dignity of fellow human beings and for the laws of our country;

(4) further believes that this deed debunks the notion that racism disappeared with the demise of apartheid;

(5) urges our courts to take cognisance of the serious nature of such crimes when they impose sentences; and

(6) calls on all South Africans to join forces in ridding our society of this scourge once and for all.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution. GOOD WISHES TO THOSE INVOLVED IN SCHOOL EXAMINATIONS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mev J WITBOOI: Voorsitter, ek stel voor sonder kennisgewing:

Dat die Raad -

(1) met die oog op die aanvang van die eindeksamens al die leerders, opvoeders en ouers wat betrokke is, sterkte toewens;

(2) se beste wense in besonder ons matrikulante vergesel in die belangrike tyd waarin hulle moet rekenskap gee; en

(3) die uitdaging aan die Wes-Kaap rig om soos in die verlede weer die toon aan te gee met puik matriekuitslae en dat ons die hoop uitspreek dat die ander provinsies die Wes-Kaap se voorbeeld sal volg. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)

[Mrs J WITBOOI: Chairperson, I move without notice: That the Council -

(1) with a view to the commencement of the final examinations wishes all the learners, educators and parents involved all the best;

(2) extends its best wishes to our matriculants in particular in this important time during which they will have to give account; and

(3) addresses the challenge to the Western Cape to set the tone once again with excellent matric results, as they have done in the past, and expresses the hope that the other provinces will follow the example of the Western Cape.]

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                           HIV CAUSES AIDS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Ms C S BOTHA: Madam Chair, I move without notice: That the Council accepts that HIV causes Aids.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Is there any objection to the motion?

Mr J L MAHLANGU: Yes, Chairperson.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! There is an objection. The motion will therefore become notice of a motion.

      LOCAL GOVERNMENT AND ISSUES AFFECTING TRADITIONAL LEADERS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Comrade Chair, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) commends the Minister for Provincial and Local Government and his technical team for their commitment in achieving consensus in relation to issues affecting traditional leaders;

(2) expresses its gratitude to the President for his sensitivity and his will to address the concerns of traditional leaders; and

(3) recognises the need to strengthen and further promote democratic local government.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                 INITIATIVES OF DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH

                         (Draft Resolution)

Ms E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson …

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Hon members, you do not need to move your eyes at me. I have noted your names and I will come to you. Continue, Ms Lubidla.

Ms E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) welcomes the Department of Health’s initiative to establish research sites in all nine provinces, two sites per province, one rural, and one urban;

(2) notes that the Department has produced comprehensive guidelines on the management of pregnant HIV positive women with emphasis on effective obstetric interventions, the treatment of opportunistic infections, and the monitoring of the foetus during labour;

(3) notes that the Department has spent R40 million to support easy access to condoms by the public;

(4) welcomes the R60 million expenditure on life skills programmes aimed at learners and educators;

(5) calls on the South African National Aids Council and the respective provincial Aids councils to strengthen the partnerships against HIV/Aids; and

(6) encourages all South Africans to support the ABC message, Abstain from sex for as long as possible, Be Faithful to your sexual partner, if you cannot do any one of the two use a Condom.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

   ``KALAHARI KUIERFEES'' AN EXAMPLE TO SOUTH AFRICA'S COMMUNITIES

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, op ‘n heel ander noot stel ek sonder kennisgewing:

Dat die Raad -

(1) kennis neem dat -

   (a)  die gemeenskap van Upington in die Noord-Kaap hierdie week 'n
       groot Kalahari Kuierfees aanbied en die dorp daarmee gelukwens;


   (b)  dit 'n groot groep kunstenaars insluit wat die geleentheid kry
       om voor die Noord-Kapenaars van al die gemeenskappe op te tree;


   (c)  die fees ook 'n wêreldpremière aanbied van 'n film waarin die
       tradisionele inwoners, die Boesmans, die hoofrol speel; en


   (d)  dié fees werkgeleenthede skep en uniek is met 36 donkiekarre wat
       feesgangers vervoer - ons eie taxi's;

(2) van mening is dié spoggeleentheid moet ‘n voorbeeld wees vir ander plattelandse dorpe en taalgemeenskappe om deur kulturele bedrywighede en die gebruik van ons inheemse tale die gom daar te stel om gemeenskappe saam te snoer en te fokus op hulle eie uniekheid maar ook met respek en sensitiwiteit vir ons verskille te vul - op dié manier word al ons mense gedien; en

(3) voorts kennis neem dat -

   (a)  'n geskenk vandag per hand aan die President van Suid-Afrika
       oorhandig word en dat hy dit nie hoef te verklaar nie; en


   (b)  dit 'n pakkie rosyntjies is van ons wêreld en 'n pakkie Kalahari
       sand wat hy in sy skoene kan strooi en wat hom dan volgens 'n
       ``tribal legend'' sal teruglei na die Kalahari, waar hy die
       mense se gasvryheid kan geniet. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)

[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, in a completely different vein I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the community of Upington in the Northern Cape is presenting a
       big "Kalahari Kuierfees" this week and congratulates the town on
       the festival;


   (b)  it includes a large group of artists who will have the
       opportunity of performing for the people of all communities of
       the Northern Cape;


   (c)  the festival will also present a world premiere of a film in
       which the traditional inhabitants, the Bushmen, play the leading
       role; and


   (d)  this festival creates job opportunities and is unique with 36
       donkey carts to transport festivalgoers - our own taxis;

(2) is of the opinion that this prestigious occasion should be an example to other rural towns and language communities to provide the cement to unite our communities through cultural activities and the use of our indigenous languages and to focus on their own uniqueness, but also to fill them with respect for and sensitivity to our differences - in this way all our people are served; and

(3) further notes that -

   (a)  today a gift is being handed to the President of South Africa
       and that he does not need to declare it; and


   (b)  it is a packet of raisins from our part of the world and a
       packet of Kalahari sand which he can sprinkle in his shoes and
       which, according to tribal legend, will then lead him back to
       the Kalahari where he can enjoy the hospitality of the people.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Is there any objection to this motion and to the President receiving such gift?

Mr P G MARAIS: No, Chairperson, but we would like the hon member to distinguish between a speech and a motion. This was motivation. [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I think, hon Marais, the member was motivated. We will make sure the present gets to you, Mr President.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution. CONGRATULATIONS TO PROTEAS CRICKET TEAM ON BEATING ENGLAND

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mnr J L THERON: Voorsitter, ek het ook ‘n voorstel oor ‘n gelukkige geleentheid. Ek stel voor sonder kennisgewing:

Dat die Raad -

(1) die Proteas gelukwens met die skitterende oorwinning oor Engeland in die Internasionale Krieketraad se uitklopbeker;

(2) met groot genoegdoening daarvan kennis neem dat ons ‘n tradisioneel groot krieketland soos Engeland getroef het; en

(3) sy blydskap uitspreek daaroor dat jong spelers soos Boeta Dippenaar so vinnig verbeter en uitstekend presteer. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)

[Mr J L THERON: Chairperson, I also have a motion about a joyous occasion. I move without notice: That the Council -

(1) congratulates the Proteas on their magnificent victory over England in the International Cricket Council’s knock-out cup;

(2) notes with great satisfaction that we have trumped a traditionally strong cricketing nation like England; and

(3) expresses its pleasure about the fact that young players like Boeta Dippenaar are improving so quickly and are performing excellently.]

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                         PRESIDENT'S ADDRESS

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Chairperson, hon Premiers, Deputy President, hon members of the House, Ministers, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, let me start by thanking you, Chairperson, and the National Council of Provinces for giving me the opportunity, once more, to spend time in this important House of our national legislature. Perhaps I should apologise, because the programme says that I should speak for 45 minutes. I hope you do not mind if I speak for less.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I would be very happy. [Laughter.]

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: When we spoke at the National Assembly in June, on the occasion of the discussion of the Budget Vote of the Presidency, we addressed the issue of the challenge of the transformation of our system of governance. We did this because of the critical importance of this matter in our continuing struggle to build our democratic, nonracial and nonsexist society.

Precisely because of this importance, we are of the view that all of us must participate in the process of the execution of the national task of the conceptualisation and the construction of this system of governance. I believe, therefore, that it would be fundamentally wrong for us to leave this matter solely in the hands of the executive.

It is true that, as it should be, our legislatures, including this Council, do indeed participate in this process, as they consider legislation directed at the establishment or the transformation of the institutions of government. Beyond the adoption of such legislation lies the task of creating the institutions and establishing the processes the law visualises.

I believe that hon members, as lawmakers, should have a continuing interest in the achievement of the objectives contained in such legislation as they would have approved. Today, for these reasons, and in continuation of the remarks I made in June at the National Assembly, I would like to address the critically important issue of local government.

As the Council knows, the Minister for Provincial and Local Government, the hon Sydney Mufamadi, has now announced the date on which the local government elections will be held. I would like to take this opportunity to convey our Government’s understanding of the frustration that all political parties, and the electorate as whole, might have felt at the delay in the announcement of this date. Nevertheless, I would like to plead that this delay was necessary in the context of the search for inclusive processes as we pursue the reconstruction and development of our country.

It is clear that some voters will be inconvenienced by the fact of our holding the elections on the particular date announced by the Minister. I would like to apologise to all of these, and assure them that we tried our best to avoid this inconvenience. Nevertheless, I hope that all those affected will make the necessary effort to exercise their right to vote for candidates and parties of their choice. This is of the greatest importance to the continuing national effort further to entrench democracy in our country.

I am certain that the Independent Electoral Commission will do everything in its power to ensure that all registered voters have the possibility to exercise their democratic right freely to help constitute our local legislatures.

As the hon members are aware, the majority of our voting stations will be based on school premises. As has happened in previous elections, we will continue to count on our principals and teachers to assist the IEC and the nation to conduct successful elections. I therefore appeal to this important sector of our society once more to demonstrate its patriotism and selflessness by helping to man these voting stations, displaying the same dedication that inspired all of us during the last general election.

Once again, I would like to call on all our parties and all the candidates to do everything they can to ensure that the forthcoming elections are free of all violence and intimidation. Given the levels of violence in our society, which continue to be a matter of serious concern, all of us have a continuing responsibility to entrench the practice and culture of the resolution of all conflicts in our society by peaceful means. This includes the conflict inherent in the competition among parties and individual candidates for the necessarily limited elective positions in our legislatures.

I believe that we have to implant the understanding, among all of us, that any seat won through the coercion and intimidation of the electorate is a seat acquired by fraudulent and criminal means.

Anybody who holds a seat by virtue of resort to these antidemocratic means should be left in no doubt that he or she sits in any of our legislatures as a pariah, with no legitimacy and no right to the honoured title of a people’s tribune.

Again, as this House knows, the holding of the forthcoming municipal elections has brought into sharp relief the need for us as a country to address the issue of the role and place of the institution of traditional African government in our democracy. Many of our country’s traditional leaders have taken the view that the installation of the new municipalities, with elected councils, will result in the complete obliteration of their powers. They fear that they will therefore be transformed into nothing more than a ceremonial institution.

Correctly, they raised this matter with our Government, requesting that it should be addressed. We have agreed with them that, indeed, the issue should be addressed, taking into account all relevant factors, including the further consolidation of our nonracial and nonsexist democracy.

As a result of the interaction between the Government and the traditional leaders, agreement has been reached that our constitutional and legal order has, in fact, diminished the powers that traditional authorities exercised prior to the transition to democracy. We have agreed that we will attend to this issue. Apart from anything else, this should ensure that we give real content to the objective contained in our Constitution to respect the institution of traditional leadership.

Accordingly, we have agreed with the representative structures of traditional leaders that this matter will be addressed in two phases. The first of these refers to the interim period immediately after the election and installation of the new municipal authorities. The question that must be addressed is what powers, roles and functions should be attributed to the traditional authorities in the context of the existence in the communal areas of elected municipal councils. This will be done before these elections take place.

The second phase is the longer term, during which a comprehensive determination must be arrived at relating to the same questions of the powers, role and function of the system of traditional government. A satisfactory response to this important challenge, in both phases, may require that we make such changes to our legal order as may be necessary to ensure that we give legal expression to the agreed powers, role and function of the system of traditional government.

I trust that hon members will understand the importance of these processes and thus be willing to convene, as part of the national legislature, to consider such statutory measures as may be required.

I am pleased to inform hon members that our Government is firmly committed to taking all necessary steps to ensure that the concerns of the traditional leaders are addressed with regard to both phases. This will be based on the common agreement that the institution of traditional government must play a meaningful role as part of our system of co- operative democratic government.

I would like to take this opportunity to express my appreciation to our traditional leaders for their readiness to support and encourage the process of democratisation and to work side by side and in harmony with the elected democratic institutions. It was for this reason, given our assurance that their concerns would be attended to, that they supported the speedy announcement of the date on which municipal elections would be held.

In this context, I would like to believe that the traditional leaders will play their role in ensuring that these elections take place in conditions of peace, with everybody in the communal areas and elsewhere in our country enjoying the right freely to choose such candidate or party as they may wish to. I must also call on our state security organs once more to make another sterling contribution to the common objective of achieving free and fair elections.

The hon Sydney Mufamadi has addressed the Council on the revolutionary process in which we are engaged to create an entirely new system of local government. Hon members have also discussed this important matter as they considered the White Paper and the legislation that gave legal force to our intentions to establish a system of local government that is democratic, people-centred, meaningful and effective.

Accordingly, it is not necessary for me to cover the detailed ground already traversed by this House. Nevertheless, as I have already indicated, I would like to make some comments to the Council relevant to the process in which we have been engaged, of the construction of a new system of local government.

The National Council of Provinces occupies a unique position in our constitutional order, as a consequence of which it must play a special role in ensuring that we succeed in the creation of the new system of local government. Among their ranks, hon members have members of the SA Local Government Association, directly representing in this national legislative Chamber the local government sphere of government.

As hon members know, this places this Council in the select and therefore difficult position of being the only legislature in our country that directly spans all three spheres of government. The Council has various statutory responsibilities with regard to local government. At the same time it is directly linked to our provincial legislatures and executives, which in turn also have statutory responsibilities towards local government. It is therefore both necessary and appropriate that the Council reflect deeply and seriously on the strategically important issue of everything that has to do with the establishment of the new system of local government.

I can report to the Council that in the last six years we have, as a country, made great strides in the transformation of our country’s institutions of national Government. We would not hesitate to make a similar statement about the state system at the provincial level.

Needless to say, we are not suggesting that we have realised all the objectives we set ourselves or the goals that are a necessary consequence of our common pursuit of the objective of creating a democratic, nonracial, nonsexist and people-centred society. The reality is that we still have to travel a long road before we can be satisfied, as a nation, that we have the kind of state machinery that we would be happy with. But still, there is no gainsaying the fact that, most remarkably, we have managed to establish the new, replacing the old, at a speed and in a manner that even we never thought was possible.

I am convinced that we cannot make the claims with regard to local government that we can make, quite legitimately, with regard to national and provincial government. This is not to deny the positive results achieved by the elected local government representatives, the municipal public servants and the ordinary people in all localities during the last few years in bringing about change at the base and foundation of the new South Africa we are struggling to create.

The unequivocal recognition of this reality must, however, be qualified by a similarly honest admission of the fact that of our three spheres of government, we have made the least progress at the level of the local system of governance.

I am convinced that we have now elaborated and legislated into force the necessary policy, institutions and processes that will enable us to ensure that we achieve balanced transformation among all of the spheres of government.

The forthcoming elections give all of us an opportunity to make an important advance in our common struggle to bring into being the new system of local government. All this vividly illustrates the point that the fundamental social transformation of our country continues to occupy pride of place on our national agenda for the construction and development of our new society. The social transformation requires, among other things, that we create a truly developmental state system that serves the interests of the people, that is truly representative of all of these people and that is efficient and cost-effective.

Our system of local government must also be built on the basis of these principles. We are convinced that the local government legislation that members have approved gives us the possibility to achieve these objectives and, thus, creates a radically new system of local government. I believe that it is in the interest of all of us, regardless of party affiliation, to ensure that we actually succeed in building this new system focused on enabling the people to participate in government and ensuring that the Government and the state play their proper role in the struggle to achieve the objective of a better life for all.

I am certain that the matter is clear to all of us that we can never realise these objectives unless we have local governments that are strong enough to bring development where it must occur - in each and every one of our localities. It was for this reason that we all thought it necessary that we should consolidate our municipalities into larger and more rational entities, rather than continue with institutions that are too small, fragmented and weak. Needless to say, the mere creation of these larger entities, by itself, will not solve the problems that confront us. Together we will have to do more work to ensure that these larger and fewer municipalities actually have the capacity to meet the challenges of social transformation at the local level.

I would like to discuss a few of these challenges to indicate to the Council some of the matters which I believe the Council should concern itself with as it makes its own contribution to the construction of an effective and efficient system of local government. One of the biggest challenges is going to be how we use the new structures as vehicles to deracialise our communities. In doing that, there may be tension occasioned, among other things, by the effort to ensure a more equitable distribution of resources between affluent and poor areas in order to address the serious disparities in service delivery. We do, indeed, need to deracialise the settlement patterns in our country. The establishment of integrated residential areas will give us the possibility to unite our people so that together they can create conditions of peace and stability where they can live side by side as good neighbours, friends and compatriots.

As we all know, rural areas pose a specific developmental challenge in our country. Black rural areas were in the past completely neglected in terms of governance, infrastructure and the infusion of resources. We will need to put in place measures effectively to end poverty and underdevelopment in these areas. The manner in which we have redefined the structures by integrating some of the more advanced municipalities with rural ones seeks to address this challenge. The new local government structures will ensure that rural areas enjoy better access to resources, both human and material, flowing from a broader base.

The new structures will also play a key role in the implementation of the Government’s integrated rural development strategy, which seeks to defeat poverty and ensure sustainable development in the rural areas. They will also consolidate the work done in implementing the projects approved in terms of the Local Economic Development Fund. In order to meet all of these objectives, we need to build the capacity of these structures in a manner which will ensure that we effectively meet the challenge of reconstruction and development. We need to ensure that we put some of the difficulties we have experienced in the past behind us. In this regard, we will insist on better monitoring and the establishment of early-warning systems.

Government will make resources available to enhance the capacity of these structures properly to manage their finances and ensure effective delivery of services. This will involve the training of elected representatives in strategic management and of the relevant staff in financial management. For local government to succeed, national and provincial government will have to play a significant role in providing support and participating fully in the resolution of all of the challenges thrown up by the introduction of these new structures. This House, occupying the unique position to which we have referred, will have to make a contribution of its own to the success of these structures. As we all know, local government is a primary sphere of interaction between the citizens and their government. It must succeed, lest democracy becomes devoid of any meaning to the greater majority of our people. I wish all the political parties in our country well in the forthcoming elections, bearing in mind the critical importance of these elections to the continuing consolidation of democracy in our country. [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF MPUMALANGA (Mr N J Mahlangu): Chairperson, we in Mpumalanga would like to appreciate the principles set out by his Excellency the President, particularly regarding the development in the local government sphere. Members will remember that Mpumalanga is 60% rural and probably only 40% semi-urban or urban. This poses in our province the very challenges set out by the President in his speech more than one can imagine.

We have local government councils which were brought into existence in 1995 in areas where people knew no municipalities. These areas were totally rural. There were no municipal services or infrastructure, and even the new councillors had never been trained to do municipal work, let alone economic development. This new system of local government, we believe, will alleviate the great problems, particularly the legacy left by the previous dispensation which brought about more poverty in the rural areas.

Let me say that we do have so-called TLC areas in the province where councillors literally do not have a cent to control, but they are called councillors. They depend on what will be coming from somewhere to repair the roads, bring electricity and supply water. These make a fallacy of a system in which a person is elected to deliver services, but that person is not given the necessary capacity or resources to do that. However, having premised what I said with that, a lot of strides have been taken during this interim phase. Despite the fact that the councillors were placed in such a difficult situation, I must say that we have a lot of areas in the province where a lot of water networks have been put up.

Now for the people who never knew that they could turn a tap and get water, unlike people in urban areas who find this an ordinary thing, it was a great achievement in a rural province like ours, particularly in the rural areas. It was a great achievement for Mama Gumede to be able to turn a tap and get water in the morning. This might sound trivial to a person who is used to this facility, but for this lady who had to transport water for five kilometres in a wheelbarrow, this was a great achievement.

We have had a situation in which even the provision of housing has been difficult in some rural areas owing to the fact that we have budget constraints on the building of low-cost houses. But even when there was some money to build houses, we had problems in the rural areas with communal land, which belonged to our traditional leaders jointly with the community.

Some traditional leaders were not very willing to have the land surveyed or proclaimed in such a way that an individual could get ownership and have the title deed of the little plot on which he or she lives.

So those were the hurdles which I believe were ably addressed by his Excellency the President and the Minister for Provincial and Local Government. These problems will be resolved eventually when the implementation stage begins. This problem causes great difficulty in the rural areas.

When one talks about housing one is only talking about it in an area where one does not have communal ownership. In an area of communal ownership one has to have a lot of negotiations with traditional leaders before one can have only one house of maSkomolo being built at that particular place. This will benefit this poor community which, after six years of democracy, is still struggling to see the benefits in the areas concerned.

We also agree with the President that the capacity of elected councillors is an important aspect. It is a problem to have somebody who is not trained and does not have the capacity to control the vast amount of money which is put at the disposal of the council. One needs training, as the President has rightly indicated, not only for the elected representatives, but for one’s officials to be able to control the financial aspects.

They need to be able to do this work, because our elected representatives in the deep rural areas have never been able to acquire such capacities and even been able to learn, because, as hon members know, the previous dispensation prevented this. This is a wonderful setting. It is not an end in itself, but a start. We believe we will make a difference.

Another aspect we have identified and which we would like to mention to his Excellency the President is that the tendering system in local government has left much to be desired in the last few years that local government has been in power. We have a situation in which the local government itself must sit as a tender board and decide to whom tenders should be allocated.

Some members of the council are obviously owners of the contractors in that they are contractors themselves. Now there is this artificial situation, which I normally have a problem with, in that one recuses oneself when one’s tender is being considered in the same council. [Interjections.] I am not saying this is wrong.

I do not know if my colleagues in that council know me as the mayor and know when something is my contract - I just go out while it is being discussed. Would it not influence my colleagues in deciding to whom the tender must be awarded when there are competing tenders before them? I really believe this is one aspect which, in the development of the local system of government, we should look at.

At the national level we have a separate tender board. I am not saying that it is perfect, but at least we have an independent body which is separate. At the provincial level we do have such a body. It is called a tender board, which is separate. But at local government level one just changes one’s status in that one becomes a tender board. Later on one is the council dealing with other matters. [Laughter.]

This is really an area which makes it easy for corruption, maladministration and all other things which might be evil to occur. It is our plea that something be looked at in our new municipalities. We are not saying this should happen at the beginning of the era. However, somewhere along the line, when time allows, the tendering system in local government needs to be given very clear attention.

Furthermore, we must agree with the President’s assessment that good strides have been made at national and provincial levels regarding the structures, but in the local government sphere there is still unnecessary tension. The friction that one finds between councillors is on the grounds of their shade of colour.

Yesterday I was on an outreach programme with the Cabinet in the areas of Kriel, Delmas, etc, in the province. One finds only a few councillors, say six of them, with a different shade of skin while the other four would be a little bit darker. The situation is that there is still a tendency of developing formerly white areas. In the other areas one finds very little being done.

An example of the difficulties which people face in those areas is when they have to bury their dead in a graveyard which is said to be common to all, and when there is no other graveyard. It is alleged that one has to pay R600 to have a corpse buried. This may bring in income, but one must imagine what it is like trying to bury an old lady such as maMohlamonyane who was a pensioner and did not have anyone to support her.

This is a situation which is difficult for the other councillors to understand, as I was made to understand yesterday. They argue that income is important. I agree. To bury one’s loved ones is very difficult, especially for the disadvantaged group because, generally, unemployment is very high. It is very difficult just to get a coffin and a few necessities. Now, to pay R600 for the burial place, I think, is most difficult for most of those poor people. This tension stems from the differing backgrounds of the two spheres that the members of the council come from.

I think that in the new dispensation, in which we are deracialising local government, this will give impetus to improving development and to making sure that even the people who were disadvantaged form part of the integrated community. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF THE NORTH WEST (Mr P S Molefe): Chairperson of the NCOP, Mr President, Deputy President, premiers and delegates to this House, coming here to this House once again from the North West province is, for me, like coming home, for indeed the NCOP continues to be a symbol of the fact that our united Republic of South Africa seeks to be a home for all of us.

The drafters of our Constitution indeed had the wisdom of Solomon when they designed a structure that would both protect and advance our provincial interests and autonomy without rendering our united nation hollow and empty.

Today we are delighted that we are one nation, united in its diversity, yet having opted for a system of governance which is driven by the desire to preserve our unity in the central Government whilst simultaneously moving closer to the people through provincial and local government.

The fundamental principle of being a Government that is close to the people continues to be enriched through the transformation and rationalisation of local government structures. As a nation we are products of a unique history, a history which has, in the past, sought to divide us into ethnic nations. When we define ourselves in the Constitution, we are indeed seeking to transcend those divisions and forge a common nationhood.

One of the primary tasks for us as provincial leaders and delegates to this House, is to remind ourselves that we are part of one nation with a common agenda of transformation and meeting the basic needs of the ordinary people. With this understanding of ourselves, we seek to develop a new ethos of governance and service delivery. We do so driven by the deep desire to give a better life to all our people.

We must remind ourselves that we inherited an archaic structure of homelands and apartheid provincial governance which was marked by role confusion, tensions and conflict. In the new era we are seeking to establish a corporative system of governance to bring together these various levels of government.

We of the North West province have embarked on a transformed vision of governance, driven by a common vision and strategic goal of integrated and enhanced service delivery as well as policy planning. We pride ourselves on having dispensed with sectarian and ``pigeon-hole’’ approaches to issues of governance in various departments.

We have adopted a cluster system which ensures integrated planning and service delivery. We have begun to reap the fruits of this approach by achieving more effective outcomes than would have been the case with the ad hoc and fragmented departmental approaches of the past. In our experience the cluster approach enables optimal utilisation of limited resources and also enables us to make maximum impact. It excludes unnecessary duplication and unnecessary wastage.

Co-operative governance, we have realised, cannot be limited to national and provincial departments. We in our province have established a provincial intergovernmental forum, which includes organised local government, represented by Norweloga or the North West Local Government Association. That forum also includes traditional leaders, in order that we may grapple with issues of development in our province.

In addition, we have created another forum of various stakeholders from civil society, ie nongovernmental organisations, business and labour, which is a miniature Nedlac in the province and which advises Government on a range of policy issues and assists in the implementation of those policies. As a consequence we are able to manage the strains and stresses which are inherent in intergovernmental relations systems.

Furthermore, we are able to adopt a common strategic vision in confronting all the challenges that are facing us, such as the challenge of good governance and the challenge of poverty alleviation. We have a unique way of resolving our problems and differences amicably and through consensus mechanisms.

I must say that we had a meeting with our traditional leaders. We are certain that in the North West province we will be able to participate together, collectively, in spreading the message of voter education and mobilising people for further registration.

We will be calling a general meeting of all traditional leaders to ensure that when they return to their specific places, they, too, will be calling all their headmen to ensure that their subjects participate fully in the coming elections.

I would like to thank our traditional leaders in the North West province for the extent of co-operation that we are experiencing, indeed, for maintaining the tradition of co-operation.

Although we have achieved all these matters, I must echo the words of the hon the President that there is still a long way to go towards the realisation of the ideal of intergovernmental relations and co-operative governance. Governance is a heavy responsibility, and it can make the difference whether we make progress on our stated goal of making the lives of ordinary South Africans better or whether we fail in this regard. And when we fail, we must know that it is because of bad governance and we must have failed to ensure that there is co-operation.

We have identified the transformation of governance as one of our strategic goals. We are doing this by instilling a new culture of public service, undergirded by the Batho Pele ethos, throughout the province. We have been conducting road shows to assess the perceptions of the residents of the North West in respect of the quality and extent of services that are offered by both provincial and local government. The aim is to continue reflecting on these matters, and on how we could improve on the manner in which we deliver to the people and on the standard of our services.

In locating the transformation of the Public Service as one of the strategic goals of sound governance, we are driven by the belief that a transformed Public Service will result in improved service delivery to the poor of our country. Therefore proper financial management, which we pursued through the appointment of chief financial officers in line with the Public Finance Management Act, will result in optimal resource management and thus curb mismanagement of these resources.

I have argued that we need to link governance with social services. We need to ask what impact our particular form of governance has on the lives of ordinary people in terms of the capacity to address their basic social needs. As we embark on the historic transformation of municipalities, I want to believe that the overriding motive is that of enhancing service delivery to the people who need this most.

Therefore the strategic challenges that the hon the President so aptly identified here for us must continue to engage the minds of all of us as we go into this election, and we must begin to establish new structures of local government to ensure that those structures are focused and pursue elements of the national agenda at the local level.

The North West province is ranked amongst the four poorest provinces of our country. Statistics South Africa says that 37% of those who live in the North West province earn below the minimum living level of R800.

There are social backlogs in our province and all of them represent the legacy of the past. They represent the neglect and misrule by both the apartheid and Bantustan systems. The province has a significantly higher than average rural population than that of other provinces of South Africa. Approximately 60% of the people in that province live in rural areas. Added to this social deficit is the growing threat of the HIV/Aids epidemic. In the face of these and many more challenges, we need to reflect on what we as the provincial government are doing to turn the tide.

With respect to HIV/Aids, the province has launched the provincial Aids council, drawn from various stakeholders in our province. Underpinning that provincial Aids council are local AIDS councils established at municipal level. This we see as a further advance on the work that our President started when he was still Deputy President. We see it as the consolidation of the partnership against HIV that the President initiated in 1998. We believe that it lays a rudimentary foundation for the establishment of a social movement against HIV, an all-round mobilisation of our people and an all-round raising of awareness of our people on issues of HIV/Aids. Our department continues to provide … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mrs G N M PANDOR: Chairperson, Mr President, Mr Deputy President, as I said earlier, welcome to the National Council of Provinces. It is indeed a great honour and pleasure for us to have the opportunity to debate with the hon the President.

I am very relieved that the President made reference to the role of members in the advancement of transformation in South Africa. It was a subject I wanted to speak about this afternoon, but since the President has referred to it and confirmed my own view, I will now leave that matter aside and pick up on other issues.

I am also pleased that Premier Molefe made reference to the constitutional framework that shapes the NCOP and to the intention of the writers of the Constitution when this House was framed. I think we often forget the constitutional imperative in the many debates that we have about the NCOP in the country, including the rather ridiculous comments that are often contained in the media and in some so-called research reports.

I also am happy to be able to report to the House that many countries on our continent have begun to look at their systems of democratic governance, and a number have come to the view that a sole assembly is not sufficient to fully ensure the representivity that many countries seek in their democracies. We are thus seeing the emergence of several upper houses in a number of countries throughout the continent. Interestingly, we will be having a meeting in February 2001 of African Second Houses in Mauritania, just to further deliberate on the kind of framework that we would want these emerging institutions to have on the continent of Africa.

I think we present a unique opportunity to our continent in that we have shaped the NCOP as a House that would both unite while, at the same time, asserting diversity. This is a difficult set of objectives to achieve at the same time, but in South Africa we have sought that link, and I think in our interaction and action we have begun to achieve the objectives that we set out. I am very pleased that we do not have in the NCOP an upper house that is antagonistic to national government, which is the situation that exists in several other countries where one has an upper house.

For example, I was recently in conversation with senators in the upper house of Nigeria and I was surprised at their attitude towards government, which was a purely antagonistic approach and relationship, which does not augur well for the advancement of democracy and transformation. Therefore, it seems to me that the model we have in South Africa is one we should preserve, strengthen and advance so that it serves our objectives.

But let me come to what I actually want to talk about this afternoon. I had the opportunity to read in some detail recently the 1995-2000 National Report on Social Development. It presents important insights into our progress. It confirms that reconstruction and development remain the most important objectives of this country’s government and illustrates in a coherent and detailed manner the progress that South Africa is making.

With regard to telecommunications, the report indicates that South Africa has 39% of all telephone lines in Africa. Furthermore, by 1998 more than 21 000 community telephones had been installed and over 620 rural villages were provided with lines. The current plan is that 2,8 million new telephone lines will have been provided by Government in partnership with the telecommunications providers by 2002.

In the field of education, South Africa’s commitment to education for all is gradually being realised. The school-entering-age cohort of age seven enters school in significant numbers and successfully participates in the early grades of education.

A clear commitment is highlighted in the report with respect to poverty eradication. The budget for this particular objective stands at R1,3 billion for the year 2000. Nongovernmental organisations and other structures are playing a role in creating jobs through rural water development projects, through infrastructure programmes, and through a range of Public Works programmes.

All of these and many other examples in the report are an exciting record of our success at meeting our development objectives. Unfortunately, as the report indicates, these successes tell only half the story. Distribution of income in South Africa is one of the most unequal in the world. The richest 20% of households have 65% of all income in South Africa, while the poorest 20% have only 3%, and the poorest 10% as little as 1% of all income. Women are the hardest hit by poverty and enjoy the least opportunity to the positive programmes outlined in the development report.

Even more disturbing perhaps are South Africa’s statistics on literacy rates. According to the report, black women and black men are the most in need of literacy programmes as they make up the majority of those who are not literate. The recently launched plan for adult basic education and training will assist Government in reaching over 2 million adults through literacy programmes in the next two years.

A further challenge will be to translate this literacy, once achieved, into meaningful empowerment. For newly literate South Africans strategies will have to be devised to provide skills training and the opportunity to work in new fields.

Further challenges relate to the progress of our youth, and to the support and preparation of entrepreneurs who will grow business and wealth. Health matters, the growing Aids pandemic, the education of young girls about reproductive health matters and the provision of food security to rural communities - all of these stand as challenges to us all.

The report is a comprehensive and useful guide to our country. I am sure that our members of Parliament intend to interrogate it carefully in their committees, and to report upon it to the nation. It is not my intention to address the substance of the report. Rather, I wish to raise two concerns that arose in my mind as I read it.

Firstly, I asked myself whether Government should focus on social development in a purely social services delivery approach. What form of society and citizen do we create with such an approach? The report, and even the annual reports of this year, say very little about the kind of South African we hope will rise from the ashes of apartheid. In my view, education, art and culture are important parts of the framework that would help us to promote and develop a new South African.

Of course it is Government’s duty to provide funding for the services I mentioned earlier, but just giving these out, without using the opportunity to create new citizens with new values of work, of community development and of independent enterprise, seems to me to primarily perpetuate the dependency of apartheid, rather than promote the agenda of transformation.

There has been a great deal of debate recently about the challenge of eradicating racism. Yet, we see little being done in our educational establishments to overcome this blight on our society. Gender equality, and the fair treatment of girls and women, is a further area in which very little is being done, while a lot is being said.

I have mentioned that education, arts and culture are vital instruments in promoting a new social development agenda, an agenda that would include the development of persons. I would challenge the writers of the 2001-2005 development report to find a way of integrating this citizen development aspect into their analysis of efforts at promoting reconstruction and development.

I am truly convinced that if we do not address the person in South Africa, the values that drive them as they act each day, we would not have sufficiently achieved our objectives of transformation. I do believe that it is possible to address the person, and to have a new South African participating in this process of reconstruction and development.

To mention but a few of the areas that would be of concern in determining and shaping this new person would be, for example, our dismal statistics on youth crime. Why is it that we are raising teenagers who murder, that we are raising teenagers who rape young children? Why do we have young men in homes who believe it is okay to steal pension money from their grandmothers and to murder them for it? Why is it that we create such individuals? What should our school system begin to do? What should our families do in order to create a person that would act in a very different way, who would not make it necessary for Mr Marais to spend the budget of my province on secure care facilities? [Applause.]

Mr Marais applauds. I hope he is addressing and creating this new person and, perhaps, when he contributes later in the debate, he might tell us what he is doing in the province, both to address racism and the inherent values that make one a successful participant in shaping a new society. As I said at the beginning, our social development report indicates that we are well set on our path of ensuring that the people of our country do benefit from the change that has been introduced since 1994. But, we do face this challenge of creating the new South African that I believe the hon the President has spoken of on many occasions before. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (mnr M L Mushwana): Orde! Ek stel die agb Piet Marais aan die woord. [Tussenwerpsels.] Verskoon my, die volgende spreker is die agb mnr Matthee. [Order! I see the hon Piet Marais. [Interjections.] Excuse me, the next speaker is the hon Mr Matthee.]

Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, Mr President, Mr Deputy President, I wish to dedicate this short speech to the memory of the late Deputy Commissioner of Police of Mpumalanga, Mandla Mahlangu, who was shot and murdered in an armed robbery last Monday when he came across a cash-in-transit heist, to the late Inspector Leon Josias, 35 years of age and the father of two young children, who was also shot and murdered the next day, last Tuesday, by a fleeing suspect whom he was trying to arrest, and to all other police officers who have been murdered. Last year alone 204 were killed in the line of duty.

On a very personal note, I wish to dedicate this to the memory of my dear friend, Peter Kostourus, who voluntarily played a major role in ensuring the safety and security of the residents in the suburbs of Glenmore and Carrington Heights in Durban, including me and my family, through a community organisation called Glenmore Patrols, who was brutally gunned down by armed robbers outside his tearoom on the evening of Monday, 26 September, as well as to the late Mr Boet Barnard, who was gunned down in his butchery in Port Elizabeth in front of his family the previous Saturday. He was the brother of Mr Barney Barnard of our catering staff in the Marks Building. This speech is also dedicated to all our many other compatriots who have been murdered over the past few years.

Unless we succeed in drastically bringing down the totally unacceptably high levels of violent crime in our country, we will not succeed in creating a better life for all our people, because the unacceptable crime situation in our country deters direct foreign investment and tourists. This, in turn, inhibits our economy from growing sufficiently to provide for enough job opportunities, which, in turn, leads to more poverty, and, unfortunately, more crime.

In the light of the reply from Minister Maduna regarding the implementation of the new section 49, to which I referred in my notice of motion earlier, I wish to draw the President’s attention to the fact that on average a police officer is murdered in South Africa every 43 hours.

I hope the hon the President will agree with me that this is an intolerable situation, and that everything possible must be done to improve the safety of our policemen and policewomen who constantly find themselves in life- threatening situations, whilst trying to ensure the safety and security of all our people.

The problem is that the new section 49, in its present form, will further endanger the lives of our policemen and policewomen. To corroborate this, I can call on some formidable witnesses. Firstly, the Minister of Safety and Security, Mr Steve Tshwete, is reported to have said that this provision places police officials at the mercy of criminals. Secondly, our National Commissioner of Police said, To me it is a law that is not suited for this country for now.'' Mr Mluleki George, MP, the chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security, is reported in Die Burger as saying,Klousule 49 maak dit vir die polisie onmoontlik om hul werk te doen.’’ [Clause 49 makes it impossible for the police to do their job.]

The implementation of this section will result in South Africa having one of the most stringent approaches in the world towards the use of force in effecting an arrest, more stringent than that of countries like the USA, the UK, Australia and New Zealand, to name but a few.

There is general consensus that the existing section is too wide and will probably be found to be unconstitutional as it provides for the use of deadly force in respect of trivial offences, such as petty theft. The police, however, have a draft new section which will meet the constitutional requirements, without hampering the police or endangering their lives further.

I am convinced that I speak on behalf of all our policemen and policewomen, and the vast majority of all our law-abiding citizens, when I plead with the President, with all the sincerity at my disposal, please not to put the new section 49 into operation, as he has been asked to do by the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development, but rather to refer it back to Parliament for further deliberation and possible further amendment. There are solutions to this problem. We owe this to our police and to their families. [Applause.]

Mr M BHABHA: Chairperson, first of all I would like to welcome to the House the hon the President, the hon the Deputy President and the hon premiers.

The elections held on 1 November 1995 brought to office councillors who were required to serve in municipalities that were established in a form that primarily offered a political solution. Consequently the efficacy and financial sustainability of the municipalities were, in the main, compromised. I believe that in our haste to critique the performance of councillors in the past five years, we tend to forget that they were required to perform in a system that had inherent weaknesses from the very time of its inception. Nonetheless, despite its weaknesses, this transitional period brought political stability and further provided an invaluable reservoir of experience that informed the legislation that will now be implemented with the forthcoming local government elections.

The terrain in which councillors operated was not made any easier by the legitimate expectations of the electorate. It would, however, be disingenuous to suggest that all the problems that plagued local government were the consequence of institutional weaknesses. Indeed, many of the problems were self-inflicted. Failure to consult with the community and a lack of commitment, on the part of both some politicians and some members of the administration, has adversely affected the credibility of this sphere of government.

In honouring our commitment to participatory democracy, and in an effort to ensure the accessibility of councillors to the community, there is now an entire chapter in the Local Government: Municipal Systems Bill dedicated to community participation. It will now be obligatory for councillors to consult their communities.

The present failure to consult communities, in certain circumstances, could be ascribed to a lack of will. It could also be ascribed to the lack of confidence that usually ensues from the absence of adequate training. I believe, with respect, that no matter how sophisticated the institutions that we create may be or how well-meaning our plans may be, we must arm the people who occupy these institutions with the necessary expertise to confront the enormous challenge of transformation that lies before them. In the end, it is personalities that make institutions.

I have met, for example, councillors that have served on councils for more than 20 years, but who still need to come to terms with the prerogatives of transformation. I accordingly urge the Government to embark on a much, much more aggressive programme to train councillors.

On a lighter note, we need to ensure that councillors are not likened to the Knysna elephants. We all know they exist, but if only we could find someone who has seen one!

Anyway, the heart of the new dispensation - the local government legislation that is now flowing - is that municipalities will be required to develop integrated development plans. These plans will have to be consistent with the integrated development plans of provinces, and for this system to succeed, the importance of co-ordination cannot be overstated.

I would like to suggest, with respect, precisely because local government is not a function, but straddles various line functions of provinces - and I am glad that premiers are sitting here, including the hon Mr Molefe - that perhaps the establishment of a unit in the premier’s office to ensure the co-ordination of the IDPs of the respective municipalities and provinces should be investigated. I do not have sufficient time to emphasise this and the importance thereof, but I think a reading of the Local Government: Municipal Systems Bill would show how important this aspect is.

I would also like to comment on the anxiety that the hon Premier Mr Mahlangu has expressed about the possible conflict of interest in the tendering process. I think it is a very legitimate anxiety, particularly because it has become necessary to have a system of public-private partnerships. We have found, in our experience as constituency parliamentarians and as members of this House, that some councils and some municipalities would urge that services be privatised because the companies that tender for those services belong to them. There have been such practices, and if there is not sufficient accountability, the state could lose its assets unnecessarily, precisely because of personal interests.

I am glad to report that there is a very strict code of conduct. The role of the attorney-general has now been invoked in this regard in the new legislation. Furthermore, there are very strict punitive measures. If a councillor is now found to be indulging in these kinds of activities, the likelihood of jail is very, very real.

Let me just mention one or two other points. The process of attrition, through, amongst other things, retirement in the administrations of municipalities has created a vacuum, and I think we need to strengthen or create a second layer of cadreship to replace those that leave. What is happening is that because we are not doing this aggressively enough, there is an overreliance on consultants, using moneys that could be spent elsewhere.

When all is said and done, I think the greatest challenge facing us is to improve the legitimacy of local government. To do that we will require a multifaceted approach, an approach that includes discipline on the part of the councillors, adequate funding and adequate training. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon Marais, I was in a hurry to let you speak, but I think it is now your turn.

Mr P J MARAIS (Western Cape): Chairperson, I first want to apologise to the President and the Deputy President. I see they have got me down here on the speakers’ list as Peter Marais, Leader of Government Business. I have no intention of challenging the hon the President. [Laughter.]

It is an honour to speak here today and I am grateful for the presence of such a high delegation from central Government.

We are, on all sides of this House, prisoners of our own different histories. We have been typecast into specific roles and each side is trying to interpret and act out its part, no matter how inappropriate it may seem. The only problem is that the once appreciative and applauding audiences are becoming smaller, impatient and hostile. They have seen our acts too often, and they have become bored. The expectations were high, and they have not all been met.

We therefore need to find new scriptwriters or more talented actors to save politics from becoming the theatre of the absurd. Cleverly rehearsed lines such as, the legacy of apartheid'',baasskap’’, protection of minorities'',protection of norms and standards’’, have long lost their impact on the ears of a despondent electorate, who are becoming increasingly restless.

As responsible leaders we should feed the stomachs of the masses and not feed their lust for revenge. It is no use creating policies that force the rich to look at business elsewhere, such as in Australia, Canada and the UK. It simply does not make good economic sense to get rid of those who can create wealth and, more importantly, those who can create jobs.

Ek is aan die kant van diegene wat empatie aan die arm mense wil betoon. Ek is ook aan die kant van diegene wat beleidsrigtings aanwys wat die land ekonomies sal versterk en sodoende aan empatie ‘n geldwaarde sal toeken.

In dié opsig is landbougrond die voedselmandjie van ‘n land. Zimbabwe mag nooit hier herhaal word nie. Swart en bruin boere moet op ekonomiese plase gevestig word sodat hulle ‘n wesenlike bydrae tot die land se ekonomie en landbousektor kan lewer, maar geen bestaande boer moet bedreig voel as gevolg van wettelose optrede deur grondbesetters nie. Grond moet behoort aan diegene wat dit ekonomies bedryf en nie aan dié wat dit onekonomies beset nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I am on the side of those who want to empathise with the poor. I am also on the side of those who espouse policies which will strengthen the country economically and in this way give monetary value to empathy.

In this respect agricultural land is the food-basket of a country. Zimbabwe must never be repeated here. Black and coloured farmers must be settled on economic farms so that they can make a significant contribution to the country’s economic and agricultural sectors, but no existing farmer must feel threatened by the lawless behaviour of occupiers of land. Land must belong to those persons who use it economically and not those who occupy it uneconomically.]

For politicians to discuss the toxicity and medical merits of AZT and other retroviral drugs simply does not make sense. Cancer patients still receive chemotherapy which is also toxic, yet we preserve it as we know it does work. Some people die, some live, but we do not stop giving them chemotherapy. To discuss the merits of AZT is like discussing the origin of rain, instead of simply opening up an umbrella over one’s head to stop getting wet. [Laughter.]

To abstain from treating pregnant mothers with AZT and, as a consequence, leaving thousands of orphans HIV-infected, simply does not make economic sense. Let us do what makes economic sense. If a child contracts the disease, I am going to spend 20 times more on trying to cure him. I can assure members - and I am not speaking as a mayor yet - that after becoming mayor of the unicity of Cape Town on 5 December, I will make AZT available to HIV-positive mothers at prenatal clinics. [Interjections.] [Applause.] And I will make AZT available to rape victims who ask for it. We cannot build a nation with HIV-infected mothers and babies. When we say, ``let us build a nation’’, let us first find the bricks with which to build it, and they must be good bricks, healthy bricks.

We are the prisoners of our own history because our parties were born in an abnormal society, in which race determined one’s political affiliation and who one’s leaders were. They had a political noninterference Act. I had to join the party of Hendrickse because I am coloured. Whites had to join the party of the NP because they were white, and blacks had to join the ANC because they were black. [Interjections.] But, of course! [Interjections.] Now why did members not join the NP then if they could? They could not because the law stopped them. [Interjections.] They could not join the Progs, they could not join the liberal parties. They had to join the party which was registered in terms of the Act - that is a black political party. Now we must redesign our future. We must go where we know we belong. [Interjections.] Our political parties were formulated at the time when we lived in an abnormal society.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Mr P J MARAIS: Chairperson, the ANC, the DP, the New NP, the IFP were not formed through voluntary associations.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, order! Is that a point of order?

Mr T B TAABE: Chairperson, I was checking if the hon member could take a question.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Do you want to take a question, Mr Marais?

Mr P J MARAIS: Chairperson, If two minutes are added to my time, I will.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! We will.

Mr P J MARAIS: Chairperson, you will?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Yes.

Mr P J MARAIS: Chairperson, then I will take a question.

Mr T B TAABE: Chairperson, I wanted to check whether what the hon member Marais has said is a clear demonstration of his political naiveté and myopia in this House, because of his making the inference to the effect that we joined various organisations on the basis of the colour of our skins. What does he think was the reason for the late Comrade Joe Slovo joining the ANC, and spending all his life working for the improvement basically of the lives of our people who were systematically and deliberately …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! That is too long, hon member. Can you be short?

Mr P J MARAIS: Chairperson, I am sorry, my friend. I will give him a political lesson but not today. [Interjections.] I am still trying to tell the hon member that people were prevented from joining political parties of their choice. That is a historical fact.

An HON MEMBER: That is not true.

Mr P J MARAIS: They were prevented by legislation from joining the party of their choice. [Interjections.] That is a fact. We were forced by law to constitute ourselves like we did, because we did not have freedom, and if this hon member now argues that it was not so, I wonder what he thinks apartheid was all about. [Interjections.]

To a greater or lesser degree, this is still the situation. Our Constitution serves merely as a promissory note. It has not yet placed any money in the bankbooks of millions of people. And yet we continue to act out our roles of government and opposition, and to measure our importance and relevance in terms of numerical strengths. Let us stop this facade and seek divine guidance in reaching out to each other in the search for solutions.

Three elements are needed to guide this country: power, knowledge and wisdom. None of us in this House has a monopoly on any of these. Our followers must feel safe and that their futures are guaranteed, irrespective of who wins the municipal elections. [Interjections.]

A change in the fortunes of a political party at the polls should not result in a negative change in the fortunes of that party’s supporters. This golden rule should dominate our strategies. I will dedicate the rest of my life to trying to convince people to break out of their historical political cocoons, spun from webs of mistrust, racial prejudice and bias.

Our divisions caused by historical positioning are proof that Dr Verwoerd is still directing some of our thoughts from the grave. The seeds of mistrust and racial prejudice still live on in the hate speeches of many leaders. Stick to your kind'', andLeave the clan and you are a traitor’’, are the cries. Some political leaders are leaders without a cause. They have fallen in love with titles and that seems to be the only goal they aspire to. Any opposition needs to spend its energy on criticising, influencing and engaging government in a constructive manner, and not simply on ridiculing or on trying to embarrass. Any serious government on the other hand, no matter how powerful, will have to heed the sensible calls of the opposition, and not simply rely on its numerical strength to force through its position. [Interjections.]

Ultimately they are a government for all the people. We know what the mission and vision of our various parties are, but I ask these brothers and sisters what their personal mission is. Why are they in politics? [Interjections.] Is it to enhance their own careers or that of their followers? [Interjections.] Should we only fight to build our parties or should we build a nation through the policies which we advocate? Should we fight to preserve and guarantee our various languages or fight to ensure effective communication between us? Can we break out of our historical cocoons of prejudice and mistrust and form a united front against poverty, disease, crime and racism?

I do shed a tear when I witness the chronic poverty in black townships. Yes, my heart bleeds when I see the suffering and strain in the eyes of black mothers who lost everything when their shack burned down. But we will only build a nation if I see a tear on a white person’s face because of the hardship of a black child. Then we are a nation. We are a nation when a black mother and father can cry, in turn, because of the hardship of a white child. Then we are a nation. A nation cannot be born in the Constitution. A nation lives in one’s heart, or it does not live at all. [Interjections.] One is a nation when one says ``I am a nation’’, not when somebody writes it for one to recite at a meeting.

I understand the cry for immediate restitution. It is a valid claim. That was where I found myself in 1976. I identified with the poor and preferred to be associated with others who did.

An HON MEMBER: Who has done it to you, by the way? Can you recall?

Mr P J MARAIS: Chairperson, if he wants a chance to debate with me, I will give it to him, but not here. [Laughter.]

I have broken out of my historical cocoon which shielded me from other races. Yes, I do sometimes feel there is a lack of understanding amongst the rich of the impatience of blacks for the restitution of their rights. I will remain true unto myself no matter how some people prefer to categorise me. I have said it before and I will repeat it here today, blacks are not the responsibility of the ANC only. They should not think that only they can speak for black people. What gives them that right? It is certainly not their colour. One’s heart either speaks for black people, or it does not. One’s heart either cries and laughs with them, or it does not. I believe that every political party should say that black people are its responsibility also, and not only the responsibility of the ANC. [Interjections.] I refuse to remain loyal to the Verwoerdian regime. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP [Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, even your extended time is over now.

Mr P J MARAIS: Chairperson, does that include the two minutes?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Yes, hon member. [Applause.]

Mr E RASOOL (Western Cape): Chairperson, if the President feels that the last contribution has somewhat detracted from the tone that he wanted to set, I think it had the desired result for Mr Marais. I think he has convinced the DA members here that he is finally home with them until the next election. [Interjections.]

I want to say that we are 55 days away from the local government election, and also I want to say that, for this election, the table has been laid by legislation for local government to be more than what it has been, for it to be more than a service delivery agent, and for it to be a developmental local government. I think that for the first time we are enabling that local government to play a role directly in the process of transformation.

Maybe this debate, within the NCOP, can do one very important thing which has not happened in many legislatures across the country and, maybe, sometimes not even in the National Assembly. In those legislatures and in the National Assembly the essence of democracy was often defined simply as the presence of opposition. I think that what we are trying to do with this change and in this debate in the National Council of Provinces is to say that maybe the essence of democracy has to be what happens to transformation and how we confront the challenges of transformation. That has to be defined as the essence of democracy. Within the process of defining democracy as such, I think that opposition then becomes an aspect. Maybe what we need is a new point of consensus that starts to make transformation that central pillar and, I believe, at which the new dispensation for local government starts to say that transformation has to be challenged.

I come from the Western Cape. If I were to ask myself what the challenge would be for local government across the Western Cape after 5 December, it appears that transformation would then have to concern itself largely, but not primarily and essentially only, with, firstly, the fight against poverty. That fight against poverty cuts across racial lines. It has to bring into an aggregation the poor amongst the black Africans and the poor amongst the coloureds, and deal with poverty in its rural and urban dimensions. Unless politicians in this province are able to define transformation as firstly, being about the fight against the conditions of poverty in which those people find themselves, we would have failed them. We can grandstand a lot, look for new scriptwriters and actors, but we would have failed the essential test.

The second challenge that has to underpin transformation within the Western Cape has to be the degree to which we are able to build bridges across the different groups of our people. The essential fault line within the Western Cape is the race fault line, as it is across the country. However, superimposed on that race fault line in the Western Cape is the great discrepancy in the distribution of wealth and income, which Naledi Pandor has already spoken about here. That fault line of race, in this province, takes almost exactly the same shape as that of income distribution.

On top of that, our situation in the Western Cape is made even more precarious - we sometimes feel like we are sitting on a time bomb - because there is a further fault line that is superimposed upon those two, and that fault line is sometimes religion, language or culture. No local government can speak about transformation unless it is also able to deal with those three key fault lines within Western Cape society.

The third dimension to our challenge of transformation in the Western Cape has to be to create the conditions of safety for our people in this province. I would contend that poverty is the fountainhead for so much that goes wrong, such as the violence that we experience, the social dysfunctionality, the family dysfunctionality, and the tendency towards gangsterism and other forms of marginalisation and conflict that pervade our society. I would say further that in this province, as is the case elsewhere, the root of poverty is the economic discrepancy that continues to exist. Those three things, I believe, are the essential challenges that constitute the urgent need to transform our society in the Western Cape.

I believe that the new dispensation for local government, in some measure, enables new developmental local governments to start addressing that. Unless they can do that, I do not believe that we will make much progress. Of course, many of the other points that have been made here are important, such as the calibre of the councillors and the impregnability of the systems which make sure that honesty and integrity remain the watchwords for that new local government. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, hon President, I do not want to address this House today on behalf of my party, my province or even myself, but to address this Council and our President on behalf of approximately 20 million disadvantaged and disempowered people. The people who contribute towards this disempowerment are exactly those people who benefited from the past, the people who benefited from being in exile, being in the struggle and being imprisoned.

A survey that was recently done showed that 50% of people who do not have English as their first language do not understand what Ministers, the President, or parliamentarians say when they address them or when they issue statements in English. People learn quicker, get better educated, get better jobs if they use their own language. One can only imagine what it must be like having to apply for a job, attend a disciplinary hearing or motivate a moneylender to help one to create one’s own small business in one’s second or third language. What will be one’s chances? Maybe this is exactly the reason our programmes on developing SMEs are failing.

A document presented by the Organisation of African Unity in 1986 stated the following:

Language is the heart of people’s culture. Cultural development of Africans as well as their economical and social progress cannot materialise without the engagement of the indigenous languages in a practical manner.

The President referred to the rural areas, and he is right - they are disempowered. We have millions of South Africans who cannot make informed political or economic decisions because their indigenous languages are being ignored and marginalised. We need the long-outstanding language Bill and policy now. This Government will never deliver what they promise if they keep on postponing the political will and decision on the language issue.

Chairperson Pandor is right in saying that the focus on the individual is very important, and I want to say to Mr President that the place to start is right here and the opportunity is right now. The President did this exactly a year ago when he took command of the language issue in South Africa, and when he created the opportunity for me to meet and address the Deputy President on this matter. We have not met often enough, but I still thank the President for that.

People still ask questions and we have no opportunity other than this to ask the hon the President questions. I hope that he will answer.

I want to ask the hon the President what happened to the language mechanism he promised would be established in his office. Does it exist and how does it function?

However, we also need a national culture and language conference here in South Africa so that we can promote multilingualism and the benefits thereof for all our people. Let us experience the strength of our diversity and build on it.

Are Ministers going to be stopped from implementing their own departmental language policies according to their preferences without a national framework to guide them? First of all, Justice has to be stopped, for that department is creating a lot of language confusion.

The Northern Cape is considering a proposal that the NCOP should host an interprovincial and multiparty workshop on multilingualism. My party is committed to empowering all the people in South Africa by promoting their constitutional language rights.

Ek wil vir die agb President sê die regte klimaat moet geskep word, en hiermee wil ek afsluit. Die mense daar buite in die stofstrate, in die teerstrate van Suid-Afrika, se drome begin in die taal van hul voorvaders. Elke individu het die reg om sy taal te gebruik en trots daarop te wees. Ek wil vir die agb President sê dat hy die geleentheid het om vir al ons inheemse Suid-Afrikaanse tale te doen wat ‘n voormalige president van Tanzanië vir Swahili gedoen het. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[I want to tell the hon the President that the right climate must be created, and with these words I want to conclude. The dreams of the people out there in the rural areas and in the urban areas of South Africa, start in the language of their forefathers. Every individual has the right to use his language and to be proud of it. I want to tell the hon the President that he has the opportunity to do for all our indigenous South African languages what a former president of Tanzania did for Swahili.]

INkosi mayimsikelele uMongameli Mbeki. [May God bless President Mbeki.] !ke e: /xarra //ke. [Diverse people unite!]

Enkosi. Ke a leboga. Thank you. Dankie. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

Mr K D S DURR: Mr Chairman and hon President, many people distort the situation in South Africa by accepting wealth as a given. We used to spend a lot of time talking about distribution.

There are people who flag only the moral and social problem of wealth distribution, but wealth, as the hon the President knows, is never a given. Wealth has to be created before it can be distributed. Wealth creation is the challenge at all levels of our society.

I would want to remind this House that the Budget of South Africa in 1911 was only £4 million or, in today’s money, not even R40 million. By the 1930s it was £30 million, and last year our Budget was R233 000 000 000. We need to break the poor perception of our country. We need to break the lack of confidence and the Afro-pessimism that we do not deserve and which threaten to sap our strength.

We need to see accelerated, sustainable reconstruction and development. But how? Privatisation is the locomotive at central, provincial and local government level that can pull us out of economic stagnation. The beauty of privatisation is that one can sell one’s bull, but one can still have the bull’s service.

We can build confidence, unleash economic activity, attract and generate capital and technology transfers, create a new generation of shareholders, improve efficiencies, reduce national debt and unlock money and resources for the social and educational upliftment in all the provinces of our country that is so very necessary.

It is a win-win situation. Five years of privatisation impetus will end the inertia and create the ongoing momentum that will place South Africa in a totally different league.

In 1997 we did only three privatisations. By contrast, China did 100, Brazil 26, Australia 50 and the UK 350. I want to say to the hon the President that we can do better, and I know that he would like to.

My bishop said to me one day in church: The best thing you can do for my children is to love their mother. I want to say to the hon the President that the best thing we can do for Africa is to succeed in developing South Africa.

The second related thing we can do is to recognise that racism is a disease, but that it is a disease with a cure, and the cure is reconciliation. I agree with the Premier of the North West that, indeed, today we are a united nation. However, we need to accentuate the positive and concentrate on our successes, vocalise our strengths, not our weaknesses, vocalise our hopes and not our fears, rediscover each other in a new sense of nationhood with shared goals and respect each other’s fears and aspirations. A confident, reconciled, settled South Africa, not constantly off-balance, will suck in the world community.

Increased confidence will bring increased savings and development, which are necessary for economic development. We can do it. Our globalising companies are already experiencing a renaissance in certain sectors. The hon the President must take credit for that. The work done to date in terms of international agreements signed is nothing short of spectacular and everywhere I can see the hand of the hon the President.

Goethe said that things take time. We must not lose our nerve, the lead times are long. Let us reconcile our nation and privatise.

I want to wish the hon the President well for the time ahead. Let us honour God and serve our country. [Applause.]

The PREMIER OF KWAZULU-NATAL (Mr L P H M Mtshali): Chairperson, hon President and colleagues. This debate should not be about words or policies, but should focus on tangible programmes centred around visible deeds.

This is an opportunity for each province to report on how it is fulfilling the most important of all the duties and functions of government, which is that of bringing about a substantial change in the lives of our people. Government is no longer the passive observer in social dynamics, but has long entered the field of development, becoming one of its key promoters.

Nonetheless, we need to identify clearly that which Government can do and that which it cannot do, along with that which could be done were it not for it being counterproductive, non-cost-effective or unsustainable. Unless this Government reaches clarity on the parameters governing its actions, we run the risk of witnessing the misallocating of resources and possible waste. In fact, we can confidently state that national consensus has finally been achieved on Government’s priorities in respect of development.

There is agreement that we must reach out to the weakest links of the social chain and alleviate need where need is strongest. In this fashion, our action will achieve its marginal utility in alleviating the great suffering of our people and promoting the wellbeing of our nation. However, even this important point of departure sheds insufficient light on how we should go about performing this difficult task.

Different schools of thought clearly show that there are different approaches which, in theory, are equally viable, ranging from direct assistance from government to the people concerned to remove their most pressing needs, to the philosophy of development which sees government as an enabler which takes actions creating a propitious environment for people to satisfy their own needs themselves.

In KwaZulu-Natal we have chosen no ideological approach, nor have we subscribed to any theory or school of thought. We realise that this matter is too crucial and important to be trapped in any type of dogma and that each approach may hold special benefits and advantages over the others. Accordingly, we set the basis for a multifaceted strategy which approaches development from all sides from which government can make a positive contribution.

However, we have set down a policy that all our actions must conform to basic common denominators centred around the notions of feasibility, sustainability and empowerment. We apply these notions both in respect of government’s own programmes as well as the outcome of such programmes. We must be equally concerned that what we plan to do is feasible, sustainable and properly managed and that the outcome of whatever we do adheres to the same criteria.

For this reason, in KwaZulu-Natal we identified the first step as enabling government to perform its functions in this field. In order to do so, we have stressed the element of co-ordination between our provincial departments and the various tiers of government, for we have identified such lack of co-ordination as one of the major impairing factors.

We have conducted a reconnaissance of the many programmes and activities conducted in the province which have an impact on the struggle for poverty alleviation, or which may be so adjusted to achieve such a positive effect. This exercise highlights duplication of resources and lack of viability in many programmes due to the fact that they were conceived or conducted in isolation of one another.

Therefore, under the leadership of my department, we began the effort of co- ordinating existing programmes and redirecting our activities to give them an added dimension which relates to poverty alleviation. Simply put, we made it a priority to do more and better with the limited resources we have. I believe that this is an essential priority of any government and that much more can be done with what we have if better managed, co- ordinated and redirected. Obviously, this objective is not achieved once and forever, but requires constant monitoring and ongoing reassessment of what has been done and how it has been done. Failing this essential element of continuous management, the risk exists that lack of co-ordination and duplication of functions will re-emerge within the functioning of government.

Moreover, we have realised that in our effort to co-ordinate and better manage available funds and resources, we may utilise whatever available expertise we may tap into. In this respect, my department is now negotiating with the United Nations Development Programme to provide us with assistance to enable us to streamline and standardise our systems, and build the necessary capacity to ensure that such systems are effective. This will enable us to assess the output of our programmes and their impact on poverty levels in the province.

We are also working to improve our co-ordination to ensure that the provincial government can work with unity of action and intent, even in our different and respective capacities and roles. We have strengthened co- ordination with the existing regional councils, as we shall do next year with the new district councils and municipalities. We have also worked very closely with traditional authorities and traditional leaders.

In our province we have long recognised that traditional authorities are a fundamental component in the equation of social development and economic upliftment of our rural areas where needs are most intense. We believe that it would be a mistake if we failed to resource adequately traditional authorities with both the powers and functions of local government, and the financial and logistical means which new municipalities will receive after the elections. We need to create a new system of local government which fully capitalises on existing structures, rather than obliterating them and replacing them with new structures which are foreign to our people and have no track record.

Therefore we believe that the combination of municipalities operating at a regional level, and traditional authorities operating at a local level, will create a harmonious symbiosis of local government which will maximise the developmental potential of local government. For this reason, we have great expectations that the President will be able to formulate and implement the required solution to ensure that the local government powers and functions of traditional leaders will not be eroded by municipalities.

Also in this respect, we must act without ideological dogma and rely on the pragmatic value of a multifaceted approach and recognise the value of traditional authorities. My government has also pursued the multipronged strategy in respect of the nature and scope of the various programmes we have conceived and implemented to alleviate poverty. For instance, programmes such as the road maintenance programme in Zibambele have assisted people by providing direct opportunities for employment driven by government action.

We know that existing problems cannot be solved by government becoming a large-scale employer. We must plant the seeds of development within communities. Such seeds must be spread across different fields, ranging from the creation of local markets to the stimulation of the production of local products and commercial activities. For instance, along these lines, our department of welfare has developed our village bank programme. Furthermore, we have come to the conclusion that development begins from the people and only succeeds if the effort is made to enable people to grow in confidence and personal skills and capacity.

Unless we promote the human development of our people, the cause of development will not succeed. However, the greatest effort in human development cannot come from Government but from the people themselves. For this reason, my government has adopted and promoted the philosophy of self- help and self-reliance, which, in our province, has driven community development for more than two decades. Self-help and self-reliance must be a culture of community activities which gives hope to people and confidence that they themselves can act to better their own conditions. Government has the responsibility of promoting this culture and creating projects which can show people how the practice of this culture can turn the tide of dependence and despair.

In this respect I must mention the many projects undertaken by our department of agriculture and environmental affairs, such as the ongoing review and expansion of Xoshindlala, which has enabled people to utilise the land to grow their own produce and keep livestock to satisfy their primary needs. The value of these programmes is incommensurable, not only because they satisfy the most dramatic needs of people, but also because they show people how they can take the further steps conducive to their further social growth and development.

The struggle for development is neither easy nor simple; it is difficult and complex. It must be conducted with the awareness of the limits under which we operate. We must undoubtedly dream of a better world, but we must do so with our feet firmly rooted on the ground. My government has chosen the approach of hard work, pragmatism and good administration. We hope that our results will speak louder than any words. We hope that our example may be of use to other provinces which are struggling with the same problems. We are constantly looking to other provinces to learn from their experience, because we know that in the struggle for development we need to rely on our shared leadership and common commitment. [Applause.]

Ms C MABUZA (Northern Province): Chairperson, hon President, hon members, the true test of the successful transformation of South African society ultimately lies in our ability to improve the quality of life of marginalised communities. Government at national, provincial and local spheres received mandates from the people to implement programmes that will address the issues of poverty, underdevelopment and socioeconomic needs.

The position of women remains an important indicator of our success in this regard, for it remains true that we cannot claim to have achieved true freedom unless the living conditions of the women of our country have radically improved to enable them to participate in all aspects of life as equal members of society.

During the past six years this Government has committed itself to empowering women to overcome poverty by directing resources to specific programmes that are targeting the development of women. At national level, this includes a sharper focus on education, elimination of all forms of gender discrimination, greater access to health services which leads to women’s increased control over their lives and destiny, and positive action to facilitate equal access to resources, employment and income opportunities.

In many instances we have only just left the starting blocks. Too often we are faced with the consequences of centuries of neglect and deprivation. Unfortunately the ghost of the past will still be haunting us for some years to come.

However, it is true that we have indeed turned the corner. Already we can celebrate the victory of hope over despair. We have an unwavering commitment to uproot poverty and to address the plight of rural communities. In the Northern Province we are engaged in a battle against poverty on a daily basis. This is indeed not an easy task, but we draw our inspiration and strength from the daily experience of ordinary men and women who are striving for a better life for themselves and for future generations.

During the past 18 months we focused on community-based public works programmes as a vehicle where the efforts of national, provincial and local governments meet the needs of our citizens. Last year more than R84 million was allocated to specific programmes aimed at poverty alleviation. The programmes focused on sustainable poverty alleviation in rural areas through the delivery of critical infrastructure. Success is determined by the interaction between the three tiers of government, and the active participation of communities in the determination of priorities and the identification of projects.

Through their participation in these projects, men and women gain opportunities to acquire new skills and training. This is of particular benefit to the large number of households in our province that are headed by single women. We remain committed to the development of our human capital as a priority in the process of reconstruction and development in South Africa. In this process we have created valuable partnerships between national, provincial and local governments, traditional leaders and communities in securing the delivery of these projects. We share the responsibility to ensure that communities take ownership of their assets and utilise them for the greater welfare of society. We are confident that these programmes will continue to grow, once fully democratic local government structures are in place in two months’ time.

We must also pay tribute to the commitment and dedication of our communities. Without them these projects would fail. To achieve success in our struggle to uproot the scourge of poverty we need the joint energy and commitment of Government, civil society and the citizens of our province.

The NCOP has developed into an important forum where the needs of provinces such as ours are continuously placed on the agenda and assured attention at the highest level of Government. We must trust that this current session will make another contribution towards finding solutions for the alleviation of poverty and the improvement of the lives of all our people. [Applause.]

Ms C BOTHA: Mr Chairman, hon President, it is a rare privilege to see the hon the President in person in Parliament, and not only on television. I suppose the reason that he no longer comes here to answer questions in this Council is that his overseas obligations take up most of his time. [Interjections.] I know he goes there because he wants to do great things for Africa. What I do not know is what the President will do for the people in my town.

I come from the second-poorest province in this country. The lives of a lot of people there are dependent on the welfare of farming. As hon members know, the ANC removed all protective measures from farming when they came to power. Our farmers get no subsidies, which all of Europe and America does. They get no diesel rebate and, as Mr Marais pointed out, the spectre of Zimbabwe is knocking on their door.

On their behalf, and on behalf of all emerging, new farmers, who must survive economically to produce our food, I am asking the hon the President, not new and untested municipalities, for an unequivocal commitment to their future today. I will not speak about their physical survival, national concern though it should be, because it is not the biggest killer stalking the platteland today.

The people on our farms are dying of Aids. They are not slick city dwellers who read newspapers and wear little red ribbons. One young man on our farm, a newly qualified welder, died within a week after diagnosis. His wife, who was diagnosed first, is still alive, who knows for how long. She lives with their children, together with her unemployed brother and his children, in her mother-in-law’s house and off her old age pension.

When I talk to them about Aids, they shrug. They sit around. It is not that they do not want to work; it is just that there are no jobs. Their cousin left to go to school in the city last year, looking for a better future. She came home pregnant. Her baby lived only for a few weeks. She is now back with her parents on the farm, together with her two unemployed brothers. They cannot get jobs on the farm, because farmers cannot afford to employ new people. Somehow they are paying off their funeral debts. The family does not talk about the reason for her baby’s death.

As things stand now, I can put names to people in our province who will not survive the President’s Aids policy, nor will their dignity survive the current failure of delivery. The President places high hopes for delivery on the new local government system. It is not systems which deliver, it is people, people who serve all the people, not only some, and not only some of the time. For three successive visits to the pension payout point, one of our farm people was told that the systems were down, and to come back the next week. His rheumatism is so bad that he can hardly walk, but he has to go back. He has two Aids orphans to support.

I agree with Mr Mtshali and Mr Rasool that we must all contribute to real transformation. This is what the DA will do: The DA will give 300 000 school-leavers opportunity vouchers, 3 000 a year, a head start, for five years in a row, funded by the existing and as yet unspent, in the hon the President’s hands, Unsobomvu Fund, to give young people a chance at a job. [Interjections.] If the hon the President does not want to give people work, he should give us a chance. [Interjections.]

The DA will give farmers a diesel rebate. The DA will institute a basic income grant to help the destitute. The DA will amend those labour laws which inhibit job creation, and the DA will speak out against despots like Mugabe. [Interjections.] The DA will give rape victims and HIV-positive pregnant mothers antiretrovirals. [Interjections.] What will the hon the President do? [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mrs C NKUNA: Hon Chairperson, was it not the previous government, that is the NP, that used the strategy of divide and rule? The hon Marais is going to understand the language that I am going to use now. [Interjections.] It is not a matter of advocating for a language, but one of communication, especially with those out there that largely contributed to putting this Government in place. He cannot come and preach to the converted. [Interjections.]

Mutshami wa Xitulu, Presidente wa Afrika Dzonga, varhangeri vo huma eka Swifundzankulu ni vatirhi-kulorhi ndza nkhensa. Ndzi kombela ku rhanga hi ku tshaha. Ku tshaha swintsongo eka mbulavulo wa Presidente lowu veke kona hi siku ra 25 Khotavuxika 1999, loko a pfula Yindlu leyi. U vule leswi landzelaka: ndzi tsakile ku mi tivisa hi manana loyi a nga kuma xiyimo xo sungula hi tlhelo ra ku lwa ni vusweti, ku dyondzisa vanhu hi xitsongwatsongwana xa HIV na AIDS, manana wo huma eMakgaung Community Projects, vito ra yena a nga Rosina Komana wa le ka Xifundzankulu xa N'walungu. Ku tinyiketa ka vamanana lava a ku hi tiyisi. Ku hi nyika matimba hinkwerhu eku akeni ka tiko ra vumundzuku bya hina.'' Presidente u yile emahlweni aku:hi tshamile kwala palamende. Kunene ni sweswi hi tshamile. Hi nyikiwile matimba hi vamanana va Xifundzankulu xa N’walungu leswaku hi va yimela tanihi varhangeri. Naswona loko hi endla mintirho ya mfumo, hi nga va rivali. Hi longoloxa swilaveko swa vona eka minongonoko ya hina.’’

Tindlela to hambana hambana ta ku antswisa tindhawu ta le makaya ti vile kona eka minkarhi leyi nga hundza, kambe vanhu a va swi kotanga ku kuma ku pfuneka eka swilo swo fana na vusweti, nxaniseko wo va munhu a ti kuma a ha ri eka tiko leri ra ha lavaka kuva ri akiwa hi vuntshwa. Laha ku pfumalekaka swilo kumbe switirho swo tala. Ku fana na tindlu, mati, swikolo, mapatu, magezi, swibedlele, swi tele leswi munhu a nga swi hlayaka.

Xiyenge xa vunharhu eka Vumbiwa ra Afrika Dzonga ra lembe ra 1996, xi komba kahle mafumele ya ntirhisano ni ntwanano xikarhi ka mimfumo ya le xikarhi, mimfumonkulu ya swifundza, tindhawu hi ku hambana hambana ka tona. Leswi i ``co-operative governance’’.

Mimfumo leyi yi fanele kuva yi tirha kun’we, swikongomelo swi va leswi yelanaka kumbe swi fanaka. Ku va ni vuxaka, tindzawulo ti famba hi ndlela leyi ku nga pfumelelaniwa ha yona leswaku hi ta sivela timhaka ta leswaku hi tshama hi ri karhi hi yisana lomu ka Tihuvonkulu.

Swa laveka swinene leswaku ku va na ku tirhisana eka tindhawu ta le makaya eka tindzawulo hinkwato ta mfumo. Nakambe, matirhele lamaya ya khale ya xihlawuhlawu ya fanele ku herisiwa. Ku landzeleriwa matirhele ya ntwanano no nyiketana hi tindzawulo hinkwato ta mfumo. Xirhalanganya lexikulu lexi hi nga na xona lexi se xi vuriweke, i mhaka ya vusweti ngopfungopfu eka swifundzankulu leswi landzelaka, eKapa-vuxa, Xifundzankulu xa N’walungu na Xifundzankulu xa Free State.

Swifundzankulu na tindzawulo ta mfumo, swi fanele swi langutana na swilo swimbirhi swi nga leswi landzelaka leswi ndzi nga ta swi vula hi xilungu, ``integrated rural development strategies, integrated programme for land distribution and agricultural development’’.

Maendlele lama ya ntirhisano, ya ta endla leswaku tindzawulo ta mfumo ti languta ku antswisiwa ka tindhawu ta le makaya hi vonele rin’we leswi hi xilungu swi vuriwaka ``a common vision’’. A hi ali leswaku swiyenge kumbe tindzawulo ta mfumo ti na swikongomelo swo karhi hi ku hambana hambana ka tona, kambe lexikulu xikongomelo xa kona hi leswaku a swi ve leswi fanaka.

Ku ta fanela ku va na nkunguhato wun’we, hikuva ndza tshemba leswaku hi Afrika Dzonga rin’we. Nkungahato wa ku nyika vanhu tindhawu to tshama, masimu yo rima eka lava faneleke, swi fambelana na swikongomelo leswi nga va kona eka nhlangano wa vaholobyenkulu va swifundzankulu . Xikongomelo xo sungula i ku antswisa madyelo ya swifuwo na mbuyelo eka tindhawu ta le makaya, xa vumbirhi, ku pfuna varimisi lava ha ku sungulaka. Xa vunharhu, ku herisa timhaka ta xihlawuhlawu eka ku va ni purasi leri nga ra wena. Ha swi tiva leswaku sweswi swa tika kuva munhu a nga kuma purasi kambe loko swi landzeleriwa munhu a fanele kuva a kuma purasi leri ri nga ra yena. Ku aka vuxaka eka vurimisi na swiyenge swin’wana. Ku seketela vantshwa lava tshamaka etindhawini ta le makaya. Ku endla leswaku lava kumaka ku pfuniwa ko karhi va kota ku yisa emahlweni eka swa timali na rihanyu. Loko kuri hi leswaku ndza ha salele hi timinete tin’wana timbirhi, ndzi ta kombela ku ti tirhisa mundzuku. I nkomo. [Va phokotela.] (Translation of Xitsonga paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, hon President of South Africa, leaders from the NCOP and my colleagues, I thank you. Please allow me to quote briefly from the President’s speech during his address at the opening of Parliament on 25 June 1999 when he said:

I am happy to tell you about a woman who obtained first position in regard to issues such as fighting poverty and educating people about HIV/Aids and she is from the Makgaung Community Project. Her name is Rosina Komana from the Northern Province. The dedication of these women gave all of us courage to build our future in this country.

The President went on to say:

We sit in this Parliament, authorised by these women from the Northern Province … to work as their representatives.

And whenever we perform our official duties we should not forget them, we should list all their needs in our programmes.

Different methods of improving rural communities were used in the past, but people were never relieved of things like poverty and the suffering of people staying in a country that still needed to be reconstructed afresh, where infrastructure in the form of houses, water, schools, roads, electricity, hospitals and many things was still unavailable. A lot can be mentioned about this.

Section 3 of the 1996 South African Constitution sets out clearly the principles of co-operative governance between central Government and the NCOP. Different departments should work together harmoniously in what is known to be co-operative governance.

These governments should work together with similar objectives. There should be a relationship and departments should work together in accordance with what was agreed upon so that by so doing we avoid legal proceedings against one another in the High Courts.

It is imperative that co-operation should exist in order to develop rural areas, and all departments should work together. It is essential that the old system of working in a discriminatory way should come to an end and that we should follow the system of working together harmoniously in all departments of our government. The most serious stumbling block we are experiencing and which has been mentioned already is poverty, especially in the following provinces: the Eastern Cape, Northern Province and the Free State. The NCOP and government departments should concentrate on two things, namely integrated rural development strategies and integrated programmes for land distribution and agricultural development.

These co-operative systems will enable the government departments to maintain a common vision of rural development. We do not disagree with the fact that each of the different departments has its own objectives, but what is important is that there should be one common vision.

There should be one proposal, because I believe that we all belong to one South Africa, and it is in regard to allocating people residential sites and giving fields for ploughing to people who are able to engage in farming, so that this may be relevant to the objectives, propounded during the meeting of the premiers of the provinces. The first objective should be the improvement of grazing areas and income of the rural poor who want to start farming. The second objective should be to assist new farmers who have just started farming. The third objective is to eliminate discrimination where one possesses a farm for oneself alone, but if that could be done properly, one should be able to get one’s own farm in a proper way. Other objectives are to build a good relationship between agriculture and other institutions, and to support the youth in rural areas in order to enable promising young people to extend their opportunities so as to improve their financial and social wellbeing. If I still have two minutes left at my disposal, I request that I be allowed to use them tomorrow during my deliberations. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Mr J O TLHAGALE: Chairperson, Your Excellency the President, hon premiers and the honourable House, I stand to join the chorus of congratulations directed to His Excellency the President, for in spite of his tight schedule and pressure of work he has found time to come to the NCOP. I suppose we have an equal opportunity to claim him as much as the other House.

I wish to commend His Excellency the President for clarifying to us the thorny issue of traditional leaders, with regard to their powers and functions. I sincerely believe that an amicable solution will be found, not only to the satisfaction of the traditional leaders themselves, but also to the satisfaction of their subjects.

Many of us were at first sceptical about the incorporation of rural and tribal areas into municipal dispensations. But we do know that any new development usually causes some scepticism, and we have come to accept that this new dispensation would ultimately benefit our people. Our fears were merely the fear of the unknown. The President’s clarification that rural communities would also benefit from a stronger resource base allays our fears.

In a magazine named Sawubona, circulated on SAA flights, there appears a five-page exposition of tourism and places of national interest in the North West. These are the international airport of Mmabatho, the game parks, showing large game accommodated therein, the Sun City and Lost City complexes, and others.

The hon premier made the appropriate comment that the North West province is a leader or is excelling in many fields. However, the hon premier omitted to credit the so-called Bantustan for this magnificent development and delivery of job-creating services to our people. [Interjections.]

The President’s efforts at reconciliation could sometimes be frustrated by us at the lower levels, by our engaging one another in unnecessary party- political feuds and unceasing attacks on our leadership, instead of working jointly towards the delivery of services to our people.

In this regard, St Paul says to the Philippians:

Forgetting the things that are past, I stretch myself towards the goal of the high calling of God.

Our goal is to deliver services to our people. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! I call upon Ms L Jacobs to address the House.

Ms L JACOBUS: Chairperson, the surname is Jacobus, not Jacobs.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I am sorry.

Ms L JACOBUS: Chairperson, hon President, hon premiers and members, it is always a privilege for me to address this House, but I am particularly honoured to speak on this auspicious occasion when we are able, as members and permanent delegates from our provinces, to interact with the President on a number of burning issues that affect our communities and provinces.

In my capacity as chairperson of the NCOP Select Committee on Social Services, I have found that my committee is at the forefront of driving the transformation objectives that we have set ourselves as Government since we came into power in 1994.

We in this committee and our counterparts in the provinces deal on a daily basis with the wants, needs and expectations of the poorest of the poor, whether they be in urban areas or in rural areas. Our experiences and the outcomes of the extensive national consultative processes have taught us that invariably, the poorest of the poor translate largely into black, rural women and children.

Sometimes the task of redressing the past and fulfilling expectations is overwhelming, but we try to remain focused on our goal, which is to improve qualitatively the lives of our people, creating an environment for a better life for all.

More often than not, our Bills, programmes and campaigns are the subject of much media debate, scrutiny and speculation. We only need to look at the current debate on HIV and Aids, and the Department of Welfare’s poverty- alleviation programmes as specific cases in point.

All our Ministers, but especially those in charge of health and welfare, have been in the unenviable position of having to undo the magnitude of injustices created and reinforced throughout the decades of apartheid and colonial rule and to strategically and systematically eradicate those injustices, I do not think that any of us realised, when we first entered Parliament, the full extent of the inhumanity our people had had to endure. Undoing all those inequalities and injustices has proved to be no small task and also a long road strewn with many obstacles, not the least of which is limited financial resources and constant challenges from the opposition parties and other detractors.

To contextualise the level of poverty that still faces our people, we need to note that each month the provincial welfare departments distribute close to R1,5 billion to approximately 2,7 million beneficiaries. Two thirds of grant recipients are women. The proportion of women is highest for the grants targeted at care-givers, like the maintenance grant, care dependency grant, child support grant and foster care grant. Seven out of every ten old age pensioners are women, reflecting the greater poverty needs of women. The Eastern Cape reflected the highest percentage of welfare recipients, again mostly rural women and children.

A new threat that has reared its ugly head once again targets our young and economically vulnerable communities, the threat of HIV/Aids. The Department of Health, in its HIV/Aids strategic plan for South Africa, has indicated that in a recent estimate six out of every ten people living with HIV are men, eight out of every ten are women and nine out of every ten are children in sub-Saharan Africa. Data obtained from antenatal clinics for the past nine years show that young women aged between 20 and 30 had the highest prevalence rates and young women under the age of 20 had the highest percentage increase compared to other age groups in 1998 as compared to figures of 1997.

There is no doubt that an integrated approach is needed to deal with this scourge. In addition to Government’s response to HIV/Aids - and I refer members to the strategic plan of Government, including the ABC campaign - we also need to make sure that our people have access to clean drinking water, decent housing, adequate nutritious food and so on. To this end I again want to raise the matter of food security - I have done so in the past, and other members have also referred to it - for families living below the breadline or those with no income at all. I humbly request Comrade President to encourage the Departments of Agriculture, Health, Welfare and Finance, as well as the private sector, to come together to see how best to respond to this need. This, once again, will give meaning to private-public partnerships as we strive to address the needs of our people.

In his budget speech at the beginning of this year, Minister Skweyiya highlighted what seems to be eluding us as members of intergovernmental fora and is a vital cog in the wheel that turns co-operative governance. The Minister spoke about change and transformation at the national level that have yet to be translated into tangible gains that can be felt by women, children and the poor at the household level. As provinces, and with the co-operation of local government, I believe we can support with more vigour the implementation strategies, like the integrated poverty eradication strategy, right to the level of individual poor women living in the remotest of our areas.

This by no means implies that we have done nothing to improve the lives of women and children. Indeed, we have done a lot. All too often, as an ANC- led Government, we do not take credit for our achievements. We allow our detractors to pick holes in what we have done better to eradicate the cycle of poverty that still grips our rural community and our townships. We are far too modest to acknowledge that when we inherited the health care system, it consumed 8,5% of our GDP. It was skewed along race, gender, urban and rural lines. We have redirected resources to ensure a more equitable and affordable health care system accessible to all who need it. Our women and children under the age of six can now have access to free health care right in their communities. Women do not have to subject themselves to unsafe and unhealthy terminations of pregnancy. More children in need now have access to a child support grant. The list is endless, and this not only refers to social services, but to everybody else and to all the other departments.

Again I am not implying that enough has been done and that we are going to rest on our laurels and be content, having patted ourselves on the back. I am sure the President will not allow us to sit back and relax while there is work to be done, especially in the light of the upcoming local government elections, which he has referred to extensively, local government being the sphere of government where social delivery takes place. I believe, with the will which we as the ANC-led Government have displayed under his able leadership, we will turn the tide of poverty and improve the lives of our fellow South Africans living in both rural and urban areas, especially the most vulnerable, the women and children. [Applause.]

Mr M MADLALA (Salga): Chairperson, hon President, premiers, members of the Council and ladies and gentlemen, Salga takes criticism and observations made in this Council as lessons to be learned which constitute the building blocks for the future as a permanent feature of our local government in South Africa. We believe, considering what has been said here, that if we all contribute positively, we will be able to make the future of local government prosperous.

The existence of a socially conscious Government in South Africa has placed the need to address inequality firmly at the centre of the nation’s agenda. I do not need to remind this House that such a Government is currently led by President Thabo Mbeki. This has been reflected in the poverty audits undertaken as well as the numerous policies and programmes that have been formulated and implemented over the past six years. These policies and programmes have different implications for different sectors and spheres of government. Furthermore, they have different elements, some of which require action by local government, while others require national and subnational government action. Local government is set to play an important role in the growth and development of South Africa and, by implication, in the alleviation of poverty.

To add to the statistics provided earlier by the Chairperson of the NCOP, Naledi Pandor, I can say that according to the 1996 census, 55% of the South African population live in urban areas, with a significant component living in the metropolitan areas. On the other hand the spatial distribution of poverty is such that 75% of the South African poor live in rural areas. Within the urban sector there are significant concentrations of poor people in small towns, and large inequalities in the level and quality of life exist within major metropolitan areas. Given these realities, as well as the role of local government in urban and rural areas in the economy, and its mandate as reflected in the Constitution and the White Paper on local government, local government cannot escape a role in the economic development process and in poverty alleviation. Like in the other two spheres of government, local government has a developmental role to play.

At the core of the South African development agenda is the eradication of poverty and inequities as it is recognised that there can be no long-term political and social stability within the country without these being addressed. The role of local government is clearly defined in the Constitution, with its objective defined as the provision of democratic and accountable government to local communities; the provision of services to communities in a sustainable manner; the promotion of social and economic development; the promotion of safe and healthy environment; and, finally, the involvement of communities and community organisation in the matters of local government. The Constitution further outlines the developmental role of local government as to structure and manage its administration and budgeting and planning processes to give priority to the basic needs of the community, and to promote the social and economic development of the community, and to participate in national and provincial developmental programmes.

The success of local government and of the implementation of the above- mentioned constitutional mandate depends on a number of factors. Firstly, it will be determined by the nature of the policies and programmes that result from the influences constituted by this mandate.

Secondly, it will depend on the capacity of local government to manage the interlocking intergovernmental dimensions that constitute the environment within which local economic development and poverty alleviation strategies have to be implemented. The third factor will be the availability of fiscal resources to implement local economic development. In this regard antipoverty programmes will be crucial.

We will all recall that in 1998, in delivering the medium-term budget policy statement, the Minister of Finance identified the following as pillars of the country’s antipoverty strategy: meeting the basic needs of the people; accelerating the basis of sustained economic growth, development and job-creation; developing human resources; ensuring the safety and security of citizens and the state; and transforming the organs of Government to reflect the development-centred and people-centred nature of the democratic state. In order to indicate how local government, in pursuance of good governance, contributes to enhanced service delivery and ultimately to poverty alleviation, it is important to look briefly at some of these pillars of the country’s antipoverty strategy.

Regarding the meeting of basic needs, the key issue for local government in meeting the needs of the people is to ensure that our own service provision is in line with national goals. For example, within the national framework of meeting the basic needs, national Government has identified primary health care, basic education, housing, social security and water and sanitation as important programmes. Our service delivery, as local government, supports this emphasis. In line with the indigent policy in our municipalities, all residents are provided with a free 5kl basic amount of water, and there is a step-line tariff in electricity and other municipal services so as to help the poor. Those who use more than the basic amounts are required to pay for the extra services used.

We will not only provide basic services, but we will make sure that plans and programmes meet the needs of the aged and people with disabilities. Municipal services and buildings will be made increasingly accessible to our disabled communities. Improved service delivery at local government level, with the introduction of free basic services, will vastly improve the lives of the poor and therefore alleviate poverty in our society.

Local government, in the spirit of co-operative governance, will work with national and provincial government to speed up the delivery of these services and alleviate poverty. Section 152 (2) of the South African Constitution states that a municipality must strive, within its financial and administrative capacity, to achieve these objectives.

The Local Government: Municipal Systems Bill, which was passed by the two Houses of Parliament recently, is primarily aimed at fundamentally changing the modus operandi in local government. In other words, the White Paper provisions and the vision of a developmental local government are clearly legislated in the Bill. The Bill introduces local government to the principles of creative service delivery patterns, community participation and integrated development planning. It should be noted that the public sector or our municipalities should be the preferred option to provide these services. Where local government lacks the necessary capacity to provide municipal services it may engage in partnerships with other Government institutions such as state-owned enterprises or other municipalities as well as community organisations or the private sector, or may, finally, contract with the private sector if it is unable to provide such services in-house.

As far as accelerating economic growth, development and job-creation are concerned, local government is pursuing growth paths that encourage labour- intensive sectors of the economy, it supports small, medium and micro enterprises and enforces a regulatory framework that creates an environment conducive to investment. Other initiatives at the local level, such as the social plan fund, which provides financial assistance to municipalities to undertake local economic regeneration studies, and the Community-Based Public Works Programme, support the national job-creation programme at local government level.

The third area relates to integrated development planning. The Local Government: Municipal Systems Bill makes provision for the compilation of integrated development plans by municipalities. These IDPs must be prepared by municipalities in order to ensure that the constitutional objectives of local government are achieved and also to give effect to the developmental duties of local government as articulated in the White Paper on Local Government. Municipalities, as per the Local Government: Municipal Systems Bill, adopt a plan that links and co-ordinates plans and proposals from various line functions, align the plans with fiscal and other resources and ensure that the IDP framework is adopted. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mnr C A T SMITH (Noord-Kaap): Mnr die Voorsitter, agb President, lede van die Huis en dames en here, laat my toe om van hierdie geleentheid gebruik te maak om die agb President geluk te wens met die spoed waarmee hy en sy Kabinet tans transformasie in ons land laat geskied van armoede tot ‘n beter lewe vir ons mense.

Graag wil ek ook die opmerking maak dat wit Suid-Afrika en die res van die wêreld, anders as Afrika, natuurlik nie met hom kan saamstem nie dat armoede een van die grootste oorsake is van hoe dit ons mense vernietig, om die eenvoudige rede dat hulle die oorsaak is van die armoede wat tans in Afrika heers.

Ek wil graag ook van die geleentheid gebruik maak om ons verskoning namens die premier aan te bied omdat hy tans by die huis vasgevang is in onderhandelings met die mense van Namakwaland. Meer daaroor ‘n bietjie later in my toespraak. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr C A T SMITH (Northern Cape): Mr Chairperson, hon President, members of the House and ladies and gentlemen, allow me to avail myself of this opportunity to congratulate the hon the President on the speed with which he and his Cabinet are currently implementing transformation in our country from poverty to a better life for our people.

I would also like to make the comment that white South Africa and the rest of the world, as opposed to Africa, naturally cannot agree with him that poverty is one of the biggest causes of the destruction of our people, for the simple reason that they are the cause of the poverty currently prevailing in Africa.

I would also like to take this opportunity to offer our apologies on behalf of the premier, because he is currently engaged in negotiations with the people of Namaqualand at home. More about that later in my speech.]

I consider it a singular honour to be in the Chamber this afternoon to share ideas with, listen to and learn from members who are present here today in order to deal with the subject raised by the hon the President, which is central to the mission and vision of our province. We are committed, as never before, to eradicating poverty and racism. To this end, most of our programmes in the province are geared towards job creation and rural development to address the needs of the rural poor.

We are acutely aware of the enormous challenge to create a viable economy and employment opportunities for a large number of our people. The strategy includes a series of projects and programmes which would have to be brought on stream and undertaken, in some instances, jointly with the private sector and, in others, individually. Support for the SMMEs has seen the launch of the recently opened business incubator centre in Kimberley, which is aimed at stimulating local business development, and which we are very proud of, joint public-private sector collaboration projects and the proposed R5 billion Gamsberg zinc mine development with Anglo American. The mine promises to create 5 500 temporary jobs during the three-year construction period, 1 100 jobs once the mine is up and running and a further 100 indirect jobs in the surrounding areas of Aggeneys in Namaqualand. The mine will generate off-shore revenues of R2.2 billion and annual tax revenues of R309 million.

Dit is deel van die rede waarom ons premier nie hier kan wees nie, naamlik omdat hy besig is om met mense in ons provinsie te onderhandel omdat daar opportunistiese koloniale paternaliste is wat graag hierdie werkgeleenthede van ons mense, ons arm vaders en moeders, wil wegneem in die strate van Namakwaland. Ons wil dit graag in hierdie debat onder die agb President se aandag bring, en ons hoop en vertrou dat hy ons daarmee kan help sodat ons dan ook werkgeleenthede daar kan skep. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[That is part of the reason why our premier cannot be here, namely because he is negotiating with people in our province because there are opportunistic colonial paternalists who would like to take these job opportunities away from our people, our poor fathers and mothers in the streets of Namaqualand. We would like to bring this to the attention of the hon the President in this debate, and we hope and trust that he can help us in this regard so that we can then also create job opportunities there.]

Initiatives also include infrastructure development, fast-track housing delivery, schools building projects and many more, as well as social delivery and the building and upgrading of clinics. Indeed, these initiatives will give impetus to the economic revival of the province. We are confident about the future because, as a province, we have laid a solid foundation and will continue striving towards the creation of a caring and humane society for future generations.

Much of the financial year has been characterised by improving intergovernmental relations between provincial and local government. Realigning the spending of district councils and local government towards meeting the reconstruction and development objectives has ensured enhanced delivery at this critical level.

As a semirural province, we welcome the new local government structures because they promise to deal with the challenges that confront our province. Indeed, local government is an important sphere of governance and plays a crucial role in the delivery process. The Northern Cape province is committed to this.

Ons is ook verbind tot openbare deelname ten opsigte van die opvoeding van die gemeenskap. Ek wil agb lede herinner aan ‘n projek van die Noord-Kaapse regering, naamlik ``Cabinet meets the people’’, wat groter openbare deelname aan die funksies van die regering aanmoedig. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[We are also committed to public participation with regard to the education of the community. I would like to remind hon members of a project of the Northern Cape government, namely ``Cabinet meets the people’’, which encourages greater public participation in the functions of the government.]

Local government has been described as the hands and feet of reconstruction and development in South Africa. Through its grass-roots linkages, infrastructure investment programmes, local economic development strategies, partnerships with the private sector and integrated development plans, local government is the Public Service agency best able to have a direct and enduring impact on the lives of its citizens.

Local government indeed is undergoing a major process of transformation that will result in a new system of local government after the next local elections. To this end we are happy that new legislation has been enacted and policies are being put in place. This will ensure the extension of basic services which play a major role in service delivery and poverty alleviation to all parts of the province.

Most of our rural areas, in particular the Hantam region, are concentrations of poverty and neglect where women and children bear the brunt of poverty more than anyone else.

Hierdie gedeelte van die land is deur apartheid verwaarloos in die sin dat daar geen nywerhede weg van die groot sentra geleë is nie. Ongeletterdheid is ook ‘n groot probleem in dié gebied.

Ek wil vir die agb President sê - dit is al voorheen gesê en ons wil dit weer eens onder sy aandag bring - omdat ons provinsie ‘n semi-plattelandse gebied is en ons so ‘n klein bevolking het en dit tans die beleid van die Regering is om begrotings per capita te bereken, kry ons die kleinste gedeelte van die koek. Ons wil dit egter onder die aandag van die agb President bring dat die geweldige afstande wat afgelê moet word in die lewering van dienste ook in berekening gebring moet word. Die afstand van Port Nolloth af tot by Kimberley is meer as 1 000 km. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[This section of the country was neglected by apartheid in the sense that no industries are situated away from the major centres. Illiteracy is also a big problem in this area.

I want to tell the hon the President - this has been said before and we would like to bring it to his attention again - that because our province is a semirural area and we have such a small population and it is currently the policy of the Government to calculate budgets per capita, we receive the smallest piece of the cake. However, we would like to bring to the attention of the hon the President that the tremendous distances which must be covered in rendering services should also be taken into account. The distance from Port Nolloth to Kimberley is more than 1 000 km.] Yes, the new face of local government will enable an environment where employment opportunities do arise. It is the express policy of Government that the programmes take place on a more structured basis. This is a requirement that should be welcomed by municipalities as a means to guide officials to serve, and not to dictate, as good examples to the citizens of a municipality.

Social services and social development projects are spread across the length and breadth of our province with a view to reaching a great number of our people. This will hopefully inculcate a culture of self-reliance among the greater majority of our people.

The co-operative social and development projects and programmes will, inter alia, support sustainable development in order to promote the quality of life of the people of the Northern Cape.

The scourge of HIV/Aids also poses a serious threat to the economic growth of our people. Some of the highlights to contain the rapid spread of the disease were the formation of the interdepartmental committee on Aids, the provincial Aids conference and the launch of the provincial Aids council this year.

In die aanloop tot die verkiesings kom daar baie mense aan ons deure klop. Ek hoor hulle maak ook deesdae geraas hier in die NRVP. Dié mense kom vertel ons graag van die regte van swartmense. Ek wil die Huis graag daaraan herinner dat dit hierdie einste mense is wie se hande drup van die bloed van ons vaders en ons moeders, ons broers en ons susters, wat ons van ons regte en ons menslikheid beroof het, wat ons grond van ons weggeneem het en wat ons huise gesteel het.

Dit is hierdie mense wat vandag aan ons deure klop en graag vir ons wil kom sê wat ons regte is. Ek wil agb lede graag daaraan herinner dat die Grondwet meer as net geld vir ons mense gegee het. Die Grondwet het ons integriteit gegee. Dit bewys dat die DA meer oor geld begaan is as oor integriteit, en daarom weet hulle nie eens wat identiteit is nie. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Is hulle die NP, die Nuwe NP, die PFP of die DP, wat is dit nou? Heel waarskynlik skrik hulle môre wakker en dan is hulle die ``Demo-weet-nie-wat- nie’’. Vra vir hulle waar die geld vandaan kom en hulle sal agb lede ‘n bank gaan wys. Ons mense wil nie geld hê nie, ons mense wil integriteit hê en daardie integriteit is in die Grondwet opgeteken. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[In the run-up to the election many people knock at our doors. I hear that these days they also make a noise here in the NCOP. These people are eager to tell us about the rights of black people. I would like to remind the House that it is these very people whose hands are dripping with the blood of our fathers and mothers, our brothers and our sisters, who robbed us of our rights and our humanity, who took our land away from us and stole our houses.

It is these people who are knocking on our doors today and want to come and tell us what our rights are. I would like to remind hon members that the Constitution has given our people more than just money. The Constitution has given us integrity. It proves that the DA is more concerned about money than about integrity, and therefore they do not even know what identity is. [Interjections.] Are they the NP, the New NP, the PFP or the DP, or what is it now? Tomorrow morning they will probably wake up and they will be the ``Demo-do-not-know-what’’. Ask them where the money comes from and they will show hon members a bank. Our people do not want money, our people want integrity and that integrity is contained in the Constitution. [Interjections.]]

Finally, it has been my honour and privilege to make this presentation to the NCOP. [Applause.]

Mr I P JACOBS (Gauteng): Chairperson, Mr President, premiers, hon members of this House, I bring you warm greetings from the provincial government of Gauteng, the golden heartbeat of South Africa. [Interjections.]

Last week Premier Mbazima Shilowa presented a report to the provincial legislature on progress made thus far in the delivery of services to the people of Gauteng. This report was the result of a commitment we made at the beginning of our term that we would give regular reports to our people through the provincial legislature and facilitate direct contact through community outreach programmes in both black and white communities in our province. Unlike others, we do not want to polarise South Africa; we want to build a nonracial nation in this country. We committed ourselves to this because of the belief that a good government communicates with its people on both its successes and its weaknesses. This occasion today is a further reflection that ours is indeed a good government, a government that is willing to openly raise the challenges it continues to face in implementing a commitment made to the electorate so that they themselves can be the judges of delivery or lack thereof.

It is appropriate that the topic of this discussion and the focus of the speech of the hon the President is about what we are doing to build strong local government as a new, dynamic partner in the fight against poverty, because this is indeed the biggest challenge that we face as a nation.

Three days ago the UNDP released its 2000 South African Human Development Report, in which it states that South Africa’s rate of poverty, a measurement of the extent of absolute poverty, is 45%. This translates into 3,1 million households or more. Pegged at an income of R350 in mainly rural provinces, the figure rises above 50%.

This level of poverty is unacceptable. We have made a dent in this, but we still need to do more. Many hon members may be wondering why we are concerned about this matter in Gauteng, because recently Statistics South Africa reported that, in terms of their study on the levels of poverty in the country, Gauteng is the richest province in South Africa.

While this may be true, it is a very subjective conclusion. There are many poor people in Gauteng. We are as much challenged by this problem as other parts of this country, but we will continue to develop so that our wealth also gets redistributed to our rural sister provinces.

Poverty, being the result of systematic oppression and the isolation of African, coloured and Indian people in particular in South Africa, affects all parts of this country where black people are found. We are not thrown into a state of complacency by the conclusions of the report.

In fact, Minister Manuel responded correctly to the report when he made the observation that the report does not measure levels of inequality and poverty within an area. He said, in relation to Gauteng, that it tells us that Cullinan is the poorest place, with a mean monthly household expenditure of R2 000, and that Pretoria is the richest, with an average household expenditure of R6 000, but it does not tell us specifically about the poor who have no income at all, but just live on the social security grant from Government.

To respond to this challenge, the provincial government views social security as one of the major poverty alleviation mechanisms. Our social security programme caters for an average of 380 000 people monthly, the majority of whom are the elderly who receive old age pensions.

The number of children that receive child support grants has increased from 29 000 in January to 74 000 at the end of September 2000. I wonder whether Mr Marais can say that about the Western Cape.

Another challenge we face together is the scourge of HIV/Aids. We have established the Premier’s Committee on Aids to drive the prioritisation of the HIV/Aids campaign in the province. We have launched the Gauteng Aids council to strengthen the partnership between government and civil society in our fight against the spread of HIV/Aids. An important focus in our efforts to deal with HIV/Aids has been the promotion of safe sex and the prevention and treatment of sexually transmitted diseases. There are early indications that our strategies are beginning to work and that there is a lot that we as the Government, together with other sectors, are doing right. We are currently distributing over 7 million condoms a month in Gauteng. The steady increase in the demand for condoms means that the message, ``Abstain, be faithful or condomise,’’ is starting to get through. Our province has not just stuck to antiretroviral research in nevirapine in one area. We are conducting it in two large hospitals, namely the Chris Hani-Baragwanath and Coronationville hospitals, and have now extended it to the Natalspruit and Ga-Rankuwa hospitals - whilst the Western Cape is now claiming that it is the only province that does so.

In February this year the government of Gauteng announced 10 spatial development initiatives throughout Gauteng, aimed at uplifting the economy and creating jobs that will lead to a better life for our citizens. We will be spending R1,6 billion on these projects over three years. These public funds are being used to leverage private sector investment in the provision of economic infrastructure with the aim of creating an enabling environment by which to boost economic growth, generate wealth and create jobs.

The President touched on the important issue of the role of the NCOP and provincial government in co-operative governance and intergovernmental relationships. He has addressed this issue time and time again in this House, and that reflects the passion he has on this matter. This House should embrace all three spheres of government: national, provincial and local. The democratic local government elections that will take place on 5 December are the very key to the continued shaping and building of our young democracy.

The importance of local government cannot be ignored, but it must help us to move faster and assist us in the fight against poverty. It must also help us unite our community, both black and white, as we work on the national project of deracialising our communities as we deracialise our schools, religious institutions, Government departments, clinics, hospitals and other services.

Indeed, we in Gauteng can proudly proclaim that we are contributing to the national project of building a nonracial, nonsexist democratic country. In our province the challenge to build strong local government is a top priority. We will have three megacities that we will be establishing because we believe in strong local government to improve our services to our community. Strong local government is needed to deracialise our communities so that, unlike others, we are able to unite our people. We believe in strong local government as a critical sphere of government to defeat poverty. We will not succumb to pessimists who want us to believe otherwise. For those of us together with our people who make policy, policy is only effective when it is implemented at the coalface, where it matters. Service delivery has improved and only can get better.

We are indeed on course as a government of our people. Our programmes are improving the lives of many people who previously lived on the periphery and had no hope for a better life. Today our people are not just living on hope, but are beginning to experience working together to build a better life for all our people, and they know that their children are guaranteed an even better life.

The schools will close on 2 December, but, as Gauteng, we want to ensure the President that we will, after today’s debate and his call, speak to our school principals and our teachers so that they can contribute on 5 December to assisting the democratic process and local government elections. For Mr Marais’s benefit, I do not know whether he is a candidate mayor or will be a mayor, but I just want to say that just yesterday in Gauteng, 40 members of the DA defected to the ANC, including the sister of Sheila Camerer. She is a quite a senior member of the DA. [Applause.]

Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, Mr President, premiers, special delegates and colleagues, we have heard members of the ANC try to define themselves and the Government they have formed as a caring, compassionate and responsible Government that has delivered what they promised to the people of our country.

The people of our country will assess the facts and decide for themselves whether this is, in fact, so. The people know what they have been promised and the people can also see precisely what has been delivered. The DA will do more than simply project themselves as a caring, compassionate party. The DA will put programmes in place that will actually make a difference to the lives of the most vulnerable in our society. In this regard I refer to a programme to provide our youth with opportunity vouchers that can be traded for educational or work opportunities. During the tenure of the ANC there has been a net loss of jobs and the youth of our country have been the real losers. Unemployment of this magnitude sets the stage for the socioeconomic situation that leads to an increase in the rate of crime.

The ANC principally provides opportunities for comrades, cronies and members of their families. In effect the ANC has created a new elite and privileged class in society for its own comrades. The DA will endeavour to look after the interests of all the people, regardless of race, class, gender or political affiliation.

In the second instance, the DA will have a programme to provide antiretroviral drugs to rape survivors and HIV-positive pregnant women. Successful schemes of this nature are already up and running in areas where the DA is in power. By contrast the ANC callously engages in sophistry, semantic arguments and grand conspiracy theories on the causal link between the HI virus and the condition that for historical reasons is termed ``Aids’’ and is perhaps more correctly described as HIV/Aids. Such arguments serve little or no purpose, but sow a tremendous amount of confusion amongst those who are most vulnerable to infection by the HI virus.

The ANC will never promote sufficient economic growth to provide employment for all our people, because of their inability to deal with the scourge of crime. Instead of this problem being dealt with, the statistics are simply suppressed. This does not fool our people and potential investors; instead they ask what the ANC Government is hiding.

One also has to distinguish between what the ANC says and what it does. In its election manifesto the ANC promises to remove councillors who do not deliver. I do not have to list the ANC’s track record in this regard. The people of South Africa know the score.

Finally, we need to ask: Which party will really care for all the people of our country? Chairperson, it is not the ANC. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Mr R M NYAKANE: Chairperson, all good service rendered to the people on the ground is sure to gain them rich reward, and if we work with what is pure, then our weakest efforts will endure. My province is grossly afflicted with inhibiting socioeconomic factors such as superstitious beliefs, witchcraft, the practice of throwing bones, unemployment and the lack of essential services, like water, electricity, health amenities, roads - you name it!

The UDM subscribes, without reservation to the Northern Province vision of aspiring for peace, self-sustenance and prosperity.

The dawn of democracy cherished the hope that there would be facilitation of economic growth that would, in turn, adequately address the problem of unemployment. However, in terms of the status quo, about 46% of the economically viable sector of our population is unemployed. A survey points out that 97 000 new jobs will have to be created per annum in order to ease this backlog by the year 2004. We have to bear in mind that the unemployed group are idlers, and as such their minds have become the devil’s workshop, hence the propensity for criminal acts.

May I, in the interests of time, address only one issue of constraint, namely the provision of potable water in the rural areas? Four months ago the Northern Province received heavy rains which culminated in floods. Dams were filled to capacity, and even now they are still full. Service pipelines and reservoir dams seem to be dysfunctional in most rural areas, especially in the areas of Naphuno, Giyani, Sekhukhune, Moletjie and others.

I happened to visit the Nghonyama High School, located near Tzaneen. A waterborne toilet system has been constructed, but has not been able to function for the past 18 months because of the scarcity of water. The teachers told me that they relieved themselves in the dry pit latrines of the household located next to the school. One can only imagine how boys and girls manage to cope with this situation.

Local residents who own light delivery vehicles or bakkies seized the opportunity to manipulate the poorest of the poor by charging them R2 to R5 for a litre of water. An optimistic estimate for water per household can amount to R300 per month, taking into account the laundry needs.

I wish to point out that problems that our people encounter on the ground should be viewed from an apolitical perspective. We need not point fingers at each other, as political parties, because crime, cholera and poverty know no party politics. We should remember … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr M J BHENGU: Madam Chair, your Excellency the President, colleagues, I have chosen to address the issue of poverty. The HIV and Human Development Report of 1998 says, amongst other things, and I quote:

Human development is the end, economic growth a means. The purpose of wealth should be to enrich people’s lives, to broaden people’s choices, and to enable every citizen, every child, every woman and every man to reach his or her full potential. Yet, as the experience in many countries has shown, economic growth does not automatically translate into human development.

Just like HIV/Aids, poverty, you will agree with me, is a disease. When we seek pharmaceutical answers to curb and cure HIV/Aids, we need to simultaneously curb and cure poverty. In short, we need to have a holistic approach. Poverty has dehumanised the African masses, and, of course, Africa as a whole. People in poverty cannot actually think properly, cannot struggle vigorously against anything, and that is why the West would like to see us perpetually drowned in poverty. Poverty kills one’s power, one’s dignity and one’s soul and, of course it kills one’s humanness. Let me venture to say that I think, ultimately, it kills one’s immune system. Therefore, when one introduces poverty relief programmes, within the context of the African Renaissance, one is bound to be a victim of international racist forces. [Interjections.]

In South Africa, and in Africa, poverty was calculated and designed to be there by the colonialists. The international community, together with the former South African regime, did nothing, actually, to alleviate poverty. [Interjections.] Their myopic strategy was: Make them poor so that you will be able oppress them perpetually. That was the strategy. Therefore, when the President came up with an African solution for treating HIV/Aids and other related diseases, he was viewed as creating a dangerous precedence, because he was questioning Western morality. [Interjections.] He is actually questioning Western scientific norms and standards. He is actually questioning and creating an intellectual barrier against the international pharmaceutical industry, which would affect their economies. [Interjections.]

Therefore, inequality in South Africa is seen as inextricably linked to the question of poverty. Distribution of income in South Africa is one of the most unequal in the world. According to recent statistics, the richest 20% of households account for 65% of all income, while the poorest 20% account for only 3%.

The oppressive apartheid regime left South Africa with a legacy of underdevelopment, the magnitude of which South Africans are just starting to appreciate. [Interjections.] Statistics show that 61% of Africans live under conditions of abject poverty, while 1% of whites are poor. It is this reality that calls for our urgent attention to give capacity to our local government so that they can effectively undertake to alleviate poverty by way of engaging in poverty alleviation programmes. The promotion of local economic development and poverty alleviation programmes in local governments are key areas on which we should focus our government.

In conclusion, I want to say that in KwaZulu-Natal, for instance, where I happen to come from, the poverty rate is estimated at 51,9%. This is the situation in a country that is classified as a middle-income developing country with an ample supply of natural resources, well-developed financial, legal and communication systems, a modern infrastructure and a stock exchange which ranks amongst the 10 largest in the world. However, the extent of poverty and inequality amongst its people shows that income is not being invested equitably in human development.

We need to take stock of the warning of Mr Baldwin in his book, The Fire Next Time, because he warns us that if we are not careful, such a thing will actually consume us. V Y Mudimbe in his book, The Invention of Africa, says amongst other things:

When the African comes forward with his peculiar gifts, he will fill a place never before occupied. He is, nevertheless, coming forward, gradually rising under the influences of agencies seen and unseen.

[Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I think, Deputy Chairperson of Committees, you have succeeded in waking members up. [Interjections.] I call upon the hon Premier Direko to address the House.

HON MEMBERS: Haak Vrystaat! [Go, Free State!]

The PREMIER OF THE FREE STATE (Miss I W Direko): Haak Vrystaat! [Go, Free State!] Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, hon President of South Africa, whom we respect and whom we will follow and back to the hilt, fellow premiers of provinces, members of the Cabinet, if they are still here, distinguished guests up there, if they are still there, ladies and gentlemen, and hon members, I want to start off by thanking our President for explaining and clarifying, once and for all, the thinking behind the restructuring of our third tier of government, that is the local government structure. It is not just a mean trick to make nobodies somebodies, but rather an honest attempt at the integration of urban and rural areas for the specific purpose of the utilisation of resources equitably, not for just a minority who in the past regarded themselves as God’s chosen people. This is done, as envisaged by the President as the leader of the governing party, as an honest attempt to give each one of the peoples of the country a good slice, an equal slice of the cake. After all, that is what democracy is all about.

One hopes that the President’s plea for deracialisation of communities and residential areas will receive the response it deserves. South Africa belongs to all who live in it. That means living where one chooses to be, and not by way of decree.

By the way, I give Mr Marais this message. [Interjections.] I am very comfortable to be where I belong, and that is in the ANC. To Mr Marais I say that if he is perhaps looking around for comfort, security and satisfaction, I invite him to join me on this side. [Interjections.]

I would like to ask Mr Lever where his DP was during the days of the African struggle against apartheid. Why did his grandfather and father not come forward at that point to do what they promise to do now? Of course, his knowledge of what happened in the past or what should happen now is skewed, because he was not yet born then. [Laughter.]

I would like to say to Mr Conroy that I overheard him ask, when the hon member from KwaZulu-Natal spoke: ``Who wrote your speech? Was it the CIA or the KGB?’’

Mr M J BHENGU: [Inaudible.] [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Order!

The PREMIER OF THE FREE STATE (Miss I W Direko): I would like to say to Mr Conroy that he forgets that today we live in a democratic South Africa, not in the police state that existed when they were running this country.

On behalf of the Free State province, I would like to join the entire nation in welcoming the President’s address on the role of the Government in the achievement of service delivery and the alleviation of poverty. Of course, those who survived through enjoying the fleshpots of Egypt will not understand what poverty means. [Interjections.]

In a world where the rich get richer and the poor poorer, we seem to be on the wrong side of the equator. The economic and political power relations between the rich countries of the North and the poor countries of the South have never been more unequal. The inequalities have never been sharper. [Interjections.] Those hon members should have done something about it when they had the chance to do so. [Interjections.]

In a recent study conducted by Statistics South Africa, using the household poverty line based on consumption expenditure of R8 000, more or less per month, my province, according to 1996 prices, has been declared the second poorest in the country. According to this study, more than 40% of our province’s citizens live in abject poverty - inherited from the past, I must hasten to add. The aforementioned study defines poverty as, I quote -

… the denial of opportunities and choices most basic to human development to lead a long, healthy, creative life and to enjoy a decent standard of living, freedom, dignity, self-esteem and respect from others.

This is what the majority of the people of this country were deprived of in the past.

This definition illustrates that poverty is not an accident caused by statistical sociological analysis, but is clearly the consequence of serious imbalances in political and economic power relations prevalent in the world today.

It further reminds us of the havoc wreaked by the social engineering of the system of apartheid. For my province statistics demand that one takes a deep breath, a long leap of faith, in the reconstruction and development of the province. A total of 62,5% of Free Staters are in informal dwellings, with a total of 56,8% having access to electricity and only 42,2% having taps in their dwellings. Where was the DP?

As few as 45,1% have flush or chemical toilets and only 22,9% have access to telephones. Only 5,5% of heads of households are adequately educated, because we were told by the former leaders that we must not be educated, for then we would clamour for green pastures. The aforementioned statistics are a product of the past.

The above figures are compounded by the reality that 30% of Free Staters are unemployed, and that the rate of infection of HIV and Aids is the second highest in the country. Our President is doing his utmost to find out exactly how we can contain the situation. He is not getting any thanks for that, but let me assure him that we stand foursquare behind him. [Applause.]

The struggle for a better life has never been clearer, the need to deepen democracy is much more challenging, and the urgency of political and social transformation is more pronounced.

The questions that people may ask are: What are the strategies? What plans have been put in place in the Free State province to map the way forward? The vision of our provincial strategic plan which was launched in April this year is aimed at a unified Free State province with a vibrant economy which provides for sustainable growth and development, and equitable opportunities for all - black and white - to achieve and sustain an improved quality of life. [Interjections.] Nie net vir ‘n handjievol mense nie. [Not only for a handful of people.]

Our provincial strategic plan has prioritised three areas. First is the provision of infrastracture and housing. Houses in the Free State are coming up like mushrooms. Second is job creation. Our business incubator which was launched last year is beginning to give results. Third is economic and human resources development and I am talking about the development of the human resources of all the people of the Free State. Ek herhaal - nie vir ‘n handjievol mense nie [I repeat, not only for a handful of people].

We have, in addition, identified flagship programmes such as our antipoverty strategy, and we have already trained women in building construction who are employed in big construction companies at this point in time, and we have put in place an integrated development framework. The objective of these flagship programmes is to significantly reduce poverty levels in our province. We will and must succeed.

The past six years of democracy has demonstrated that a long walk to freedom still needs to be undertaken towards the creation of a nonracial, nonsexist and democratic society which will offer equal opportunities to all. [Interjections.] Whilst our detractors occupy themselves with throwing as many obstacles as possible in our way towards …

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Hon member, I sincerely regret that your time has expired. [Applause.]

Mr President, I really am very aware that you are an extremely busy person. If I were not sympathetic to that busyness, I would really have asked you to be here tomorrow morning. I have not seen the House so full or so attentive since your last visit to us. May I now call upon you to respond to the debate.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Chairperson, I would like to come back to the House myself, but not in the way the matter has been agreed to for today. The particular arrangement is indeed to respond, as you are saying. I feel so, in part, because I think we need to engage one another more regularly. [Interjections.] Indeed, I think the point that the hon Peter Marais was making is that in many instances we continue to be prisoners of our past, and it is an important point. I think that to get out of that prison might, indeed, very much require that we do interact with one another a bit more frequently.

I must also confess that I always find it a great pleasure to be in this House. I do not want to make rude comments about the other Houseÿ.ÿ.ÿ. [Interjections.] … but I always find hon members reflective about important questions facing us in the country and very practical about some of the responses that are required.

The point made by the Premier of Mpumalanga, the hon N J Mahlangu, about the need for us to look at this question of the tendering system is important. Certainly, we would want to take that matter up with Minister Mufamadi to see what we can do. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development has not yet approach me with regard to section 49. He has not yet come to me as far as I know. At least, he has not reached me, although he might have reached my legal adviser - I do not know. But it has not reached me yet, but I would certainly want to discuss the matter with the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development. I understand very well the concern that the hon Matthee is raising about this issue. I know that the National Commissioner of Police and the police officers have themselves expressed a view about this matter. We will certainly discuss it and, indeed, the hon member may very well be correct that the matter needs to come back to Parliament for some further discussion.

I would like to say to the hon Van Niekerk that at its meeting yesterday, the Cabinet had a brief discussion on this language question, because we ourselves are moving from this position that we need to move with a little bit more vigour in addressing this issue and in reflecting on the last report of the Pan South African Language Board. Minister Ben Ngubane is leading that process so that we take the sort of steps that he is urging. I would want to agree with him that we need to move like that and certainly not allow a situation in which any of our people get disempowered because they are unable to use some language which might be popular among people who sit in these Houses, including myself. Indeed the point that he was making about the importance of a language to a person as part of their identity and their being is correct. I indeed agree very much with that. I am saying we are actually attending to this matter in the Cabinet and we want to be moving on this.

What I have said with regard to issues relating to language, culture and so on is that we have agreed in the Presidency that the Deputy President will be dealing with those issues. So I am very glad to hear that the hon member has had some interaction with him and, certainly, if any matter arises, whether it is the use of language in the courts or in the justice system and so on, we would want to deal with that matter there so as to ensure that, indeed, we do not produce a result which is disadvantageous to any of our language groups in the country. The matter is in the hands of the Deputy President and people who will help him deal with that matter.

I am quite certain that the hon Ken Durr has seen the Government report issued by the Minister for Public Enterprises on the matter of the restructuring of state assets. I am quite sure that he would have seen that the Government is indeed very determined to speed up that process and move it forward as rapidly as is possible. There have been, as I am sure the hon member would know, some matters which have been rather difficult to deal with; for instance the Transnet pension fund, which is very problematic. One could not move with regard to that whole group of companies without addressing this particular issue. But I believe that we have found a solution to that. However, it would be wrong to pretend that the solution would have been, under any circumstances, easy, because I think if one knew the evolution of that pension fund problem at Transnet, one would understand why it was such a complicated matter.

I know that the matter of the long distances in the Northern Cape is an issue that we certainly have discussed as Government. We have sought to urge the Financial and Fiscal Finance Commission to look at it in order to see in what way they can deal with it. These allocations are determined by them, and this becomes a factor for them to take into account. Therefore there is consciousness and awareness of the fact that this problem is there.

I think we have agreed in our discussion here that we face as a country and society, huge problems of poverty, racism and sexism and all manner of other such problems. I think the hon Kent Durr said that given the size, variety and volume of these problems, for which we have got to find solutions, the lists are long, and I agree with that. That is part of the reason why I was saying that we perhaps need to talk amongst ourselves a bit more in order to understand the depth and scale of the problems we face.

When the hon M J Bhengu talked about the impact of poverty, I thought his statement about how poverty dehumanises people, how it kills their dignity and souls, was a very important statement. It is related to the question you raised, Madam Chairperson. Why do we want to read development and change in the country merely as being about whether we have built two extra houses, installed another tap for water or built a new rural road? Yes, indeed these things are important, but to the extent that the demand that Government must deliver means that another house and tap for water must be delivered, it suggests that the people must do nothing but receive this thing which is going to be delivered. Are we not thereby - I am not saying that Government does not have a responsibility to do all these things - perpetuating that sense of dehumanisation, of the disempowerment of people, so that they feel that because they can do nothing, Government will come and deliver. I said this is a point that the Chairperson was making.

As we talk about that delivery, what kind of human beings do we want to emerge out of this? What kind of society are we trying to create? The additional house is important, but other questions are posed, such as the concern which the hon Matthee raised, quite correctly, about the the levels of violence in our society. This is a very serious and worrying matter, but where does it come from? This is one of the things you spoke about, Madam Chairperson, by asking why we are bringing up these teenagers who are criminals. What should the families and schools do? Where does it all come from? It is a serious question that we need to consider and reflect on among ourselves, because I think it is only when we understand it that we will be able to make the correct interventions.

Of course criminals must be arrested and locked up and heavy sentences must be given to those who are responsible for serious crimes. Law enforcement must happen, but we must try to get an answer to the question: Why does society spawn this kind of person? We say that we are reconstructing and developing this society, and I think you were quite right, Madam Chairperson, in saying that progress should not be measured only by the number of houses one builds. Progress must be measured, also, by the kind of person that emerges out of the society, who surely should be different from the person who is a thief and a killer and who is corrupt. So what do we do to answer that kind of question?

What do we do to deal with the problem of people who were so beaten down that they came to believe that they were naturally inferior? What does one do about that? To answer your question, Madam Chairperson, we cannot say that we have a liberated South Africa, that we are advancing and making progress and that the social development report shows all these positive things, when we are left with people who are convinced that they are inferior to others, whether on the basis of gender or of colour. What do we do to respond to that?

I have heard it said that the culture of volunteering in our society has disappeared, that when one asks people to go out and do some public good, such as helping old-aged people on a Saturday, they expect a little bit of reward at the end of it. Why is our society so driven by material gain? We are so driven by it that anything becomes permissible as long as when one emerges at the end of it, one is able to get a big house, a posh car, and so on. This is a successful person. Where does such a person get the resources from to become so successful? I am asking what it is that drives us. Maybe it is not a South African disease only. Maybe it is universal that those material values have assumed such importance that they have displaced other value systems in terms of governing how we behave.

I am only making these remarks in order to say that we perhaps need to discuss these things amongst ourselves a bit more in order to see what we can do. I agree with you very much, Chairperson, that we cannot measure our progress merely by the number of houses we build, important though that is. We have got to measure it fundamentally by the nature of the society that we create.

The Deputy President was very distressed last night. He had just returned from Namibia and asked to see me. He came and related the following story.

He was in Namibia attending a conference convened by the international Herald Tribune, where he spoke to some journalists. They asked him what President Mugabe had said at the meeting because, evidently, they had not been there. So he explained. He gave them a summary of what President Mugabe had said.

Later, at the end of the whole conference, he and other leaders from the SADC region sat on a panel answering questions from the press. A British journalist put the question whether there was any possibility or likelihood that what had happened in Zimbabwe with regard to the land question would happen in any of the other countries in the region.

As the Deputy President was the first one in that row, he said it was not going to happen in South Africa. We have got the law, there are not going to be any invasions, nobody is going to break any law, and if they do we will arrest them. Procedures exist for dealing with land issues in our country and therefore there is not going to be any such thing happening here.

Indeed, I would like to say that myself. I am making the same statement, because I thought I heard a remark being made by somebody to the effect that Zimbabwe is knocking on the doors of our farmers. It is not. It is not necessary to be spreading scare stories. It does not help in any way. It is not going to happen, and all of us know that.

I was saying that the hon the Deputy President was very distressed by this. They were going to issue a statement last night to explain all of this. I do not know whether they did.

I am mentioning this particular matter because, again in the context of what I was saying about the need for us to talk to one another more often, it seems to me that there are some people who are quite determined to make sure that as many negative messages are communicated about our country as possible. They look for it, as in this particular instance.

It was entirely mischievous to suggest, as was suggested after the Deputy President had given a summary of what President Mugabe had said, to suggest that he had spoken in support of land invasions in Zimbabwe. He never did. I am saying that it is something that we shall have to attend to. What happens when we are not in contact with the truth, is that we then believe all of these strange stories that are told. They govern our behaviour. For many of us it is indeed much easier to believe a negative piece of news than to believe a positive piece of news.

I think we need to talk to one another a bit more. I think it will help all of us. I am addressing this also to the hon Peter Marais. Let us get out of these prisons and seek to understand this country together. The lists are long.

A US Congresswoman who once visited our country said to me that what she thought we should do, was talk about a marathon race in South Africa every day. She told me that she had been to our country a number of times and had looked around and visited people. It was clear to her that such was the scale, size and depth of our problems that our people should run a marathon race. It was not short sprints, not 100 metres, she said, but a marathon race.

She said that I should try to convey this image because it carried with it the idea of long distance, and the notion that even as we would be getting close to the tape, we would be getting more and more tired because the race would be long. As one is getting tired, it is precisely at this point that one needs one’s greatest resolve to be able to finish the race.

I thought that she was right. I hope that the NCOP will be very much part of the people of our country as we run that marathon race which we cannot avoid. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Thank you, hon members. Thank you, Mr President.

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 18:00.

                             __________

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                       MONDAY, 9 OCTOBER 2000

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Correctional Services:

 (1)    Proclamation No 819 published in the Government Gazette No 21482
     dated 25 August 2000, Establishment of the prison at Kokstad,
     KwaZulu-Natal Province, to be known as the Ebongweni Correctional
     Centre, made in terms of section 5(1) of the Correctional Services
     Act, 1998 (Act No 111 of 1998).


 (2)    Proclamation No 820 published in the Government Gazette No 21482
     dated 25 August 2000, Establishment of a new prison at Empangeni,
     KwaZulu-Natal Province, to be known as Empageni Qalakabusha
     Prison, made in terms of section 5(1) of the Correctional Services
     Act, 1998 (Act No 111 of 1998).

1. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry:

 Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Water Affairs and
 Forestry for 1999-2000 [RP 101-2000].

                      TUESDAY, 10 OCTOBER 2000

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:


 Bill passed by National Assembly on 10 October 2000 and transmitted for
 concurrence:


 (1)    South African Rail Commuter Corporation Limited Financial
     Arrangements Bill [B 64 - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75)
     (Select Committee on Public Services - National Council of
     Provinces)

1. The Chairperson:

 (1)    Mr J L Mahlangu has been appointed as chairperson of the Ad hoc
     Select Committee on General Intelligence Law Amendment Bill with
     effect from 10 October 2000.


 (2)    Ms S N Ntlabati has been appointed as chairperson of the Ad hoc
     Select Committee on Pan-African Parliament with effect from 10
     October 2000.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Finance:

   Resolutions of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for 2000 and replies thereto obtained by the National Treasury - Fifth, Sixth and Seventh Report, 2000.

2. The Minister of Labour:

   Report and Financial Statements of the National Productivity Institute for 1999-2000.

                  WEDNESDAY, 11 OCTOBER 2000
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 The following papers were tabled and are now referred to the relevant
 committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Justice and Constitutional Development and to the Select Committee
     on Security and Constitutional Affairs for consideration and
     report:


     (a)     Rome Statutes of the International Court of Justice,
          tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (b)     Explanatory Memorandum to the Rome Statutes.


     (c)     Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on Civil
          and Political Rights, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
          Constitution, 1996.


     (d)     Second Optional Protocol to the International Covenant on
          Civil and Political Rights, tabled in terms of section 231(2)
          of the Constitution, 1996.


     (e)     Explanatory Memorandum to the protocols.


     (f)     Extradition Treaty between the Government of the Republic
          of South Africa and the Government of the United States of
          America, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
          Constitution, 1996.


     (g)     Treaty between the Government of the Republic of South
          Africa and the Government of the United States of America on
          Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters, tabled in terms
          of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (h)     Explanatory Memorandum to the treaties.


 (2)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Arts, Culture, Science and Technology and to the Select Committee
     on Education and Recreation for consideration and report:


     Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the event of
     Armed Conflict (the Hague Convention) with regulations for the
     execution and the coverence resolutions, 14 May 1954, tabled in
     terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (3)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Trade and Industry, the Portfolio Committee on Labour, the
     Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, the
     Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs, the Portfolio
     Committee on Health, the Portfolio Committee on Welfare and
     Population Development, the Portfolio Committee on Housing, the
     Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and
     Status of Children, Youth and Disblaed Persons and the Joint
     Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status
     of Women. It is also referred to the Select Committee on Economic
     Affairs, the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises,
     the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, the
     Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, the Select
     Committee on Social Services and the Select Committee on Public
     Services:


     National Report on Social Development for 1995-2000.


 (4)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Trade and Industry and to the Select Committee on Economic
     Affairs. It is also referred to the Standing Committee on Public
     Accounts for consideration and report:


     Report and Financial Statements of the South African Bureau of
     Standards for 1999-2000, including the Report of the Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements.


 (5)    The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on
     Public Accounts for consideration and report:


     (a)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
          of Vote 1 - President for the period 1 April to 31 May 1999
          [RP 110-2000].
     (b)     Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
          of the South African Wool Board for 1996-97 [RP 150-2000].


 (6)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Public Enterprises, the Portfolio Committee on Defence, the Select
     Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises and the Select
     Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs:


     Report and Financial Statements of Denel (Pty) Ltd for 1998-99.

National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 The following papers were tabled and are now referred to the Select
 Committee on Education and Recreation:


 (1)    Government Notice No 777 published in the Government Gazette No
     21444 dated 11 August 2000, The date on which TEFSA ceases its
     functions, made in terms of the National Student Financial Aid
     Scheme Act, 1999 (Act No 56 of 1999).


 (2)    Government Notice No 789 published in the Government Gazette No
     21438 dated 11 August 2000, Approval that the pilot project Travel
     and Tourism Standard Grade, Grade 10 - 12 becomes a fully fledged
     instructional offering, made in terms of the National Education
     Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996).


 (3)    Government Notice No R.848 published in the Government Gazette
     No 21501 dated 1 September 2000, Correction notice to Government
     Gazette No 21192 dated 18 May 2000, made in terms of the National
     Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996).


 (4)    Government Notice No 3102 published in the Government Gazette No
     21539 dated 6 September 2000, Call for public comment on draft
     document - The National Policy Framework on Whole-school
     Evaluation, made in terms of the National Education Policy Act,
     1996 (Act No 27 of 1996).

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Public Enterprises:

 Report and Financial Statements of Denel (Pty) Limited for 1999-2000.

1. The Minister of Communications:

 Report and Financial Statements of the South African Broadcasting
 Corporation for 1999-2000.


 Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Communications and to the Select
 Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Select Committee on Public Services on the Sea Transport Documents Bill [B 28B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 10 October 2000:

   The Select Committee on Public Services, having considered the subject of the Sea Transport Documents Bill [B 28B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

2. Report of the Select Committee on Education and Recreation on the Adult Basic Education and Training Bill [B 42B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 10 October 2000:

   The Select Committee on Education and Recreation, having considered the subject of the Adult Basic Education and Training Bill [B 42B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 76), referred to it, reports the Bill with an amendment [B 42C - 2000].

3. Report of the Select Committee on Education and Recreation on the Education Laws Amendment Bill [B 48B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 10 October 2000:

   The Select Committee on Education and Recreation, having considered the subject of the Education Laws Amendment Bill [B 48B

   • 2000] (National Assembly - sec 76), referred to it, reports the Bill without amendment.

4. Report of the Select Committee on Education and Recreation on the Higher Education Amendment Bill [B 55B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 10 October 2000:

   The Select Committee on Education and Recreation, having considered the subject of the Higher Education Amendment Bill [B 55B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

5. Report of the Select Committee on Economic Affairs on the Abuja Treaty, dated 11 October 2000:

   The Select Committee on Economic Affairs, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Treaty establishing the African Economic Community (Abuja Treaty), referred to it, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Treaty.

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Economic Affairs on the African Renaissance and International Co-operation Fund Bill [B 65B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 11 October 2000:

   The Select Committee on Economic Affairs, having considered the subject of the African Renaissance and International Co-operation Fund Bill [B 65B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports the Bill with proposed amendments, as follows:

                           CLAUSE 5
   

   1. On page 3, in line 15, after “available” to insert “or disbursed”.

   2. On page 3, from line 17, to omit subsection (4) and to substitute:

      (4) Loans or other financial assistance must be granted or rendered in accordance with an agreement entered into between the relevant parties, excluding assistance for the promotion of democracy and good governance or the prevention or resolution of conflict.

                        CLAUSE 6
      

   3. On page 3, in line 32, after “Fund” to insert:

        in terms of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act
        No.1 of 1999)
      

2. Report of the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises on the Transnet Pension Fund Amendment Bill [B 57B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 11 October 2000:

   The Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises, having considered the subject of the Transnet Pension Fund Amendment Bill [B 57B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.

3. Report of the Select Committee on Social Services on the Chiropractors, Homeopaths and Allied Health Service Professions Second Amendment Bill [B 66 - 2000] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76), dated 11 October 2000:

   The Select Committee on Social Services, having considered the subject of the Chiropractors, Homeopaths and Allied Health Service Professions Second Amendment Bill [B 66 - 2000] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76), referred to it, reports the Bill with amendments [B 66A - 2000].

                   THURSDAY, 12 OCTOBER 2000
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Subcommittee of the Joint Programme Committee on 12 October
     2000 took a decision, in accordance with Joint Rule 216, that the
     Marine Living Resources Amendment Bill [B 68 - 2000] (National
     Assembly - sec 76(1)) be fast-tracked by, where necessary,
     shortening any period within which any step in the legislative
     process relating to the Bill must be completed, in order to make
     it possible for the Bill to be passed by both Houses of Parliament
     before adjournment in November 2000.


     In terms of Joint Rule 216(4) this decision must be tabled in both
     Houses for ratification.


 (2)    The following Bill was introduced in the National Assembly on 12
     October 2000 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:
     (i)     Marine Living Resources Amendment Bill [B 68 - 2000]
          (National Assembly - sec 76) - (Portfolio Committee on
          Environmental Affairs and Tourism - National Assembly).


 (3)    Assent by the President of the Republic in respect of the
     following Bill:


     (i)     Local Government: Municipal Structures Amendment Bill [B
          51D - 2000] - Act No 33 of 2000 (assented to and signed by
          President on 11 October 2000).

National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:


 Bill passed by National Assembly on 12 October 2000 and transmitted for
 concurrence:


 (a)    Firearms Control Bill [B 34B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec
      75) - (Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs -
      National Council of Provinces).

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The President of the Republic:

 Memorandum on Vote No 1 - "Presidency-", Adjustments Estimate, 2000-
 2001.

1. The Speaker of the National Assembly and the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces:

 Memorandum on Vote No 2 - "Parliament", Adjustments Estimate, 2000-
 2001.

1. The Minister of Home Affairs:

 Memorandum on Vote No 14 - "Home Affairs", Adjustments Estimate, 2000-
 2001.

1. The Minister of Education:

 Memorandum on Vote No 8 - "Education", Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Foreign Affairs:

 Memorandum on Vote No 11 - "Foreign Affairs", Adjustments Estimate,
 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Defence:

 Memorandum on Vote No 7 - "Defence", Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Finance:

 (1)    Memorandum on Vote No 31 - "Statistics South Africa",
     Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.


 (2)    Memorandum on Vote No 36 - "National Treasury", Adjustments
     Estimate, 2000-2001.


 (3)    Memorandum on Adjustments Estimate for 2000-2001.


 (4)    Adjustments Estimate of Expenditure to be defrayed from the
     National Revenue Fund during the financial year ending 31 March
     2001 [RP 1-2000].

1. The Minister for Provincial and Local Government:

 Memorandum on Vote No 22 - --"Provincial- and Local Government",
 Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:

 Memorandum on Vote No 4 - "Arts, Culture, Science and Technology",
 Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Transport:

 Memorandum on Vote No 33 - "Transport", Adjustments Estimate, 2000-
 2001.

1. The Minister of Public Enterprises:

 Memorandum on Vote No 23 - "Public Enterprises", Adjustments Estimate,
 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Public Works:

 Memorandum on Vote No 26 - "Public Works", Adjustments Estimate, 2000-
 2001.

1. The Minister of Social Development:

 Memorandum on Vote No 35 - "Social Development", Adjustments Estimate,
 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Safety and Security:

 Memorandums on -


 (1)    Vote No 17 - "Independent Complaints Directorate", Adjustments
     Estimate, 2000-2001.


 (2)    Vote No 28 - "South African Police Service", Adjustments
     Estimate, 2000-2001. 15.   The Minister of Housing:


 Memorandum on Vote No 15 - "Housing", Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry:

 Memorandum on Vote No 32 - "Trade and Industry", Adjustments Estimate,
 2000-2001.

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:

 Memorandum on Vote No 18 - "Justice and Constitutional Development",
 Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism:

 Memorandum on Vote No 9 - "Environmental Affairs and Tourism",
 Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.

1. The Minister for the Public Service and Administration:

 Memorandums on -


 (1)    Vote No 24 - "Public Service and Administration", Adjustments
     Estimate, 2000-2001.


 (2) Vote No 25 - "Public Service Commission", Adjustments Estimate,
     2000-2001.


 (3) Vote No 27 - "South African Management Development Institute",
     Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Communications:

 (1) Memorandum on Vote No 5 - "Communications", Adjustments Estimate,
     2000-2001.


 (2)    Report and Financial Statements of the National Electronic Media
     Institute of South Africa for 1999-2000.

1. The Minister of Labour:

 Memorandum on Vote No 19 - "Labour", Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Correctional Services: Memorandum on Vote No 6 - “Correctional Services”, Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.

2. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs:

 Memorandums on -


 (1)    Vote No 3 - "Agriculture", Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.


 (2) Vote No 20 - "Land Affairs", Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry:

 Memorandum on Vote No 34 - "Water Affairs and Forestry", Adjustments
 Estimate, 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Minerals and Energy:

 Memorandum on Vote No 21 - "Minerals and Energy", Adjustments Estimate,
 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Health: Memorandum on Vote No 13 - “Health”, Adjustments Estimate, 2000-2001.

2. The Minister of Sport and Recreation:

 Memorandum on Vote No 29 - "Sport and Recreation", Adjustments
 Estimate, 2000-2001.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women on Police Crime Statistics on Rape, dated 10 October 2000:

   The Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women has noted the fact that crime statistics reported by the SAPS at present do not disaggregate rape statistics by sex.

   Rape, as defined in South African law, is a crime which can only be perpetrated against women. Yet, the police present their crime figures routinely per 100 000 of the total population (ie men and women), instead of presenting those figures per 100 000 women. Since women make up approximately half the population, the burden of rape faced by women is essentially twice that faced by the total population. Presenting figures per total population diminishes the seriousness of the problem, especially in the calculation of the rate of rape.

   The editor of “The World’s Women 1995: Trends and Statistics” has reported that most countries define rape in relation to the female population and therefore present data only for the female population, per 100 000 women.

   The Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women therefore calls on the SAPS and Statistics SA, during the review of crime statistics that is currently under way, to ensure that -

   1) rape statistics are disaggregated by sex; and 2) all crime statistics are routinely presented in a manner which is sex-disaggregated. The above will bring South Africa in line with the commitments made by Government in respect of the Beijing Platform for Action and CEDAW.