TUESDAY, 29 MAY 2001 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:01.

The Deputy Chairperson of Committees took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr J M NGUBENI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the ANC has won seven out of the last 10 by-elections without giving up a single seat since December last year;

(2) also notes that in some cases the ANC acquired more than 80% of the vote;

(3) believes that the resounding successes of the ANC are conclusive proof that it is the only party of choice for the majority of South Africans;

(4) congratulates the ANC on its election performance throughout the country; and

(5) recommits the ANC to speed up the fight against poverty, hunger, disease and unemployment.

[Applause.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes the threat by the ANC Deputy Chief Whip to the smaller parties in Parliament that they will be punished if they fail to support the ANC motion concerning the Speaker;

(2) further notes that the ANC has already punished the FA for joining the DA by reducing their speaking time on Votes;

(3) believes that Parliament is not a personal fiefdom of the ANC to use and abuse as they please;

(4) expresses its belief that all political parties have an obligation to protect the institution of Parliament against the bully-boy tactics of the hon Deputy Chief Whip of the ANC and his party; and

5) calls on the ANC to retract their threats and to encourage all parties to consider the matter on its merits.

[Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr V B NDLOVU: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes with dismay that sugar cane was burnt on several farms in Mangethe in KwaZulu-Natal, on 25 May 2001;

(2) calls on the Police to investigate the possibility of arson, and if so to bring the perpetrators to book;

(3) expresses sympathy with those who have suffered damages;

(4) notes that there is a pending dispute between the Mangethe and neighbouring communities over land;

(5) further notes that the IFP rejects illegal attempts to occupy land; and

(6) calls on all members of those communities to settle their disputes through negotiations. [Applause.]

Mr G C OOSTHUIZEN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the hon Leon, Leader of the DP, has finally seen the wisdom of speeding up the land-reform process, tacitly conceding the folly of his party in encouraging resistance to this programme; and

(2) congratulates the DA for embracing the policies of the ANC, and accepting the advice of the ANC to encourage its supporters to support the process of land-reform for the benefit of our entire nation.

[Applause.]

Dr W A ODENDAAL: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the New NP: That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the lack of co-operation and co-ordination amongst the
       Departments of Transport, of Trade and Industry and of Public
       Enterprises, concerning the restructuring of public enterprises
       and the recapitalisation of the taxi industry;


   (b)  the ANC Government's lack of understanding of the role of
       transport in sustaining economic growth and eliminating poverty;


   (c)  the Government's failure to deliver on black economic
       empowerment and better safety conditions for taxi passengers;
       and


   (d)  the lack of leadership by the responsible Ministers and back-
       stabbing amongst top Government officials competing for the
       glory of envisaged success; and

(2) urgently requests the President to rectify the problem and, if necessary, to get rid of the said Ministers and their directors- general.

Ms A VAN WYK: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) notes with shock the self-proclaimed success by the Director of Public Prosecutions, Bulelani Ngcuka, in the fight against terror in the Western Cape;

(2) acknowledges that Mr Ngcuka cannot claim victory whilst there have been 130 gang-related deaths since January this year, of which five took place over this weekend; and

(3) calls on the national Government, the provincial government, the Minister of Safety and Security and the Director of Public Prosecutions to actively engage in productively fighting gang violence in South Africa, and specifically in Cape Town. Miss J E SOSIBO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the recent breakthrough of the exposure of a syndicate involved in fraudulent transactions worth millions of rands of Government’s money in the Eastern Cape;

(2) further notes that six Government employees and a number of business people are alleged to be the culprits in this fraud;

(3) believes that fraud and corruption are anti-social evils which must be ruthlessly exposed and eradicated;

(4) commends the nine members of the police unit involved in this investigation; and

(5) calls on members of the Public Service and the public at large to assist the Government and the SAPS to root out corruption wherever it rears its ugly head.

Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes a motion filed by ACDP Councillor Ivan Kirsten in the Cape Town Unicity Council for a change to be made to the city’s interim Integrated Development Plan;

(2) further notes that he requested that the words, the promotion of alternative lifestyles'' be replaced withthe promotion of a family- friendly environment’’;

(3) welcomes the ACDP’s call for the council to dissociate itself from attempts to legitimise prostitution, by opposing the creation of a red light district;

(4) further welcomes the initiative by an alliance of religious leaders who have demanded an urgent clampdown on the city’s growing prostitution and child-sex industry;

(5) also notes that the social impact of increasing promiscuity and moral filth, and the consequent levels of sexual exploitation of women and children, is devastating; and

(6) advises the mayor of Cape Town and his council to heed the call by the Christian, Muslim and Jewish communities who demanded an end to the promotion of Cape Town as a homosexual sex haven.

[Applause.]

Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UCDP:

That the House -

(1) believes that - (a) the SA Communication Services is not doing enough to communicate Government programmes to ordinary South Africans in an impartial and apolitical manner and on time;

   (b)  it has become increasingly difficult to access Government
       information; and


   (c)  the agency is not visible enough in relation to the role it is
       supposed to play; and

(2) urges the head of the SACS to provide a detailed report to Parliament in relation to the agency’s activities.

Mr J S MGIDI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that Sars continues to be one of the democratic dispensation’s success stories with its ever-increasing effectiveness in tax collection; (2) also notes that during its recent two-month long tax compliance campaign Sars collected R183 million from tax evaders;

(3) commends the tireless efforts of Sars, the Minister of Finance and the Treasury to maintain and step up the fight against tax evasion; and

(4) calls on all law-abiding and patriotic citizens to pay their taxes timeously.

[Applause.]

Mr D K MALULEKE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that ever since the statement by the European Aeronautic Defence and Space Company that it assisted 30 VIPs, including politicians, to acquire Mercedes-Benz vehicles, a cloud of suspicion has hung over Parliament;

(2) therefore resolves to call upon any MPs who were assisted in this manner to declare the circumstances under which they received these vehicles; and

(3) further insists that the EADS should make a statement naming the persons it assisted to acquire vehicles so that the full facts become known.

[Interjections.]

Mrs L R MBUYAZI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the coming of the new democratic Government was seen by everyone
       as the beginning of a great transformation in society and the
       economic sector;


   (b)  in respect of fishing and harvesting the resources of the
       oceans, there was great expectation that black citizens would be
       accommodated in a meaningful way;


   (c)  the question of quotas was supposed to have been resolved and
       settled; and


   (d)  those in Sea Fisheries who were found guilty of malpractice in
       court are still in their posts, and that changes did not take
       place as they should have; and

(2) therefore calls on the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to give the matter of quota allocations his most urgent attention so that equity can finally be obtained in sea fisheries.

Ms X C MAKASI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the Paul Harris award is to be bestowed today on Ma Sisulu, who is a South African stalwart and torchbearer, by the Rotary Club of Johannesburg;

(2) further notes that -

   (a)  this award is the Rotary Club's highest international award; and


   (b)  it goes to a person who has served her country with diligence
       and honour; and

(3) commends the Rotary Club and congratulates Ma Sisulu and wishes her and her family well for the future.

[Applause.]

Mr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes with shock that -

   (a)  the ANC-led Government in the Eastern Cape once again failed to
       protect the children and those dependent on social services due
       to its inability to exercise control over the province's
       finances; and


   (b)  an amount of R45,8 million was stolen from the people of the
       Eastern Cape by 29 officials who were involved in 315 fraudulent
       transactions, while the province's infrastructure is falling
       apart due to a lack of money;

(2) also notes that, according to Captain Lionel Hughes, the total amount stolen could be as high as R450 million; and

(3) calls on the Government to -

   (a)  eradicate crime and corruption amongst Government employees, as
       promised by the Minister for the Public Service and
       Administration; and


   (b)  set up a special task team to investigate the matter and to deal
       with the perpetrators as a matter of urgency.

Mr J T MASEKA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) notes with concern the comments by the National Director of Public Prosecutions, Bulelani Ngcuka, yesterday to the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development;

(2) further notes that it is a shame that Mr Ngcuka would report to Parliament on aspects of the arms deal investigation whilst the Standing Committee on Public Accounts has not been informed on progress with the investigation;

(3) expresses its concern that Mr Ngcuka commented that some of the allegations of corruption in the deal had been found to be ``rubbish’’; and (4) believes that such comments indicate prejudgement of the outcome of the investigation before it has been finalised, and would seem to close down certain avenues of investigation while important evidence may still surface.

Mr M S MANIE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that South Africa is hosting a Conference on the International Intergovernmental Consultative Group on Anti-Doping in sport as well as an executive meeting of the World Anti-Doping Agency this week;

(2) acknowledges the significance of these two meetings in the campaign to combat the abuse of illegal performance-enhancing drugs in sport; and

(3) recognises the presence of the international delegates to both meetings in this House today and wishes them success in their deliberations. ABUSE OF WOMEN

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes the shockingly high levels of abuse of women by their partners, as highlighted in a recent study by the Medical Research Council’s gender and health group;

(2) further notes that the main findings of the report were that emotional, financial and physical abuse are common features of relationships and that many women have been raped by their partners;

(3) condemns the violence and abuse perpetrated by men against their partners;

(4) commits itself to fighting the abuse of women through whatever means are available to it; and

(5) calls on all members of the House to make the eradication of abuse a priority in their constituency work.

Agreed to.

                           NAZARETH HOUSE

                         (Draft Resolution)

Ms C DUDLEY: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) commends Nazareth House for the wonderful work it has been doing by caring for indigent elderly people and orphans since 1880, while noting that the first HIV-positive baby arrived at Nazareth House in 1992 and today it cares for 47 Aids orphans, a number that will soon increase to 62;

(2) notes that the children at the house have all been abandoned by their parents and were placed there by the courts; (3) notes that many of the children are disabled and have other problems such as foetal alcohol syndrome;

(4) congratulates Nazareth House and members of the Harare community on the jointly planned project that will open in Khayelitsha in July;

(5) acknowledges that the Lizo Nobanda Daycare Centre for HIV-positive children is an attempt to stem the tide of abandoned babies by caring for such children so that their mothers can work and by offering home- based care for mothers and grandmothers who look after infected children; and

(6) further acknowledges, with approval and gratitude, that Nazareth House intends opening a hospice facility for adults with HIV/Aids to be run in conjunction with its care of the frail elderly, thereby relieving the burden on state hospitals and existing hospice facilities.

Agreed to. WELCOMING OF VISITORS IN GALLERY

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, today we recognise in the visitors gallery a great many of our sporting athletes who represent our country. We may even have a number of Sports Ministers from different countries, who are here. We would like to welcome all of them to the National Assembly. [Applause.]

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 18 - Sport and Recreation South Africa

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Mr Chairperson, hon members, it is indeed an honour to address this august House in this my second budget speech as Minister of Sport and Recreation. Much has happened over the past year, and it is hard to believe that 12 months have already passed since I addressed hon members from this podium.

Allow me, first of all, to deviate from my core business here this afternoon by drawing hon members’ attention to the presence in the House of several of my colleagues from different countries, along with their senior officials and other dignitaries, who are in South Africa to attend the meetings of the International Intergovernmental Consultative Group on Anti- Doping in Sport and the World Anti-Doping Agency. I would like to welcome them warmly to our country and to Parliament this afternoon.

We are proud to host these meetings and trust that their brief sojourn in South Africa will be enjoyable and fruitful, and that they will return home as good ambassadors for our wonderful country. I also trust that the work that they will be doing here will go a long way to rid sport of one of the greatest threats that faces its continued existence in its present form. Of course, we cannot allow doping to prevail, for humankind will be robbed of one of its greatest assets, sport, should we not succeed in combating this evil.

I would also like to welcome to Parliament chief executive officers, presidents of national and provincial sports federations, captains of teams and individual sportspersons who are in the gallery this afternoon. I am happy to see that they are interested in witnessing, first-hand, how we are fighting their cause in Government.

My address here today will relate primarily to sport’s contribution to the policy thrust identified by the President during his speech at the opening of Parliament in February this year, and especially in his reference to ``building a nation united in action for change’’. In this regard I shall be focusing on the role of sport and recreation in addressing this objective, for I believe that we are ideally located to play a significant part in this context.

I am sure that nobody needs to be reminded of the potential role of sport in nation-building. Indeed, we often lament the lost chances of the 1995 Rugby World Cup in helping to cement our fledgling democracy. I would want to believe that we have made sufficient progress since then to harness sport’s full potential in that regard. The fact that the rugby test on 16 June 2001 between the Springboks and the French National Team at Ellis Park will constitute part of the Youth Day celebrations, is a clear testimony that we have made significant progress toward unity and, indeed, toward transformation.

Safa will also host a match in Durban on 17 June 2001 as part of the Youth Day celebrations, and the players will be visiting Umlazi as part of the event. I would like to congratulate the presidents and executives of the Sarfu and Safu, on their commitment to Youth Day, and I trust that the rugby and soccer-loving public will buy into that positive development.

I have no illusions that if sport and recreation can serve as a medium for change, it can just as easily serve to maintain the status quo. Allow me to say unequivocally, therefore, that I shall be uncompromising in the coming year to ensure that sport serves as an agent of change in our country. I shall challenge any sports federation that undermines these efforts, relentlessly. Hon members will recall that at one stage sport was the leading protagonist for change in this country. I am sorry to say that we have lost that advantage and would like to give notice that I am committed to turning that trend around.

During the course of 2000 several of the major sports federations set targets for achieving representivity in their teams. I shall be examining their performances in the near future. New targets will have to be set to ensure that we proceed progressively and rapidly towards our goal of total representivity in line with the demographics of the country, an objective to which I am committed. I shall be engaging all the national federations shortly, with a view to measuring their performances and extracting from them new commitments for the year ahead.

Moreover, I shall not only be focusing on the major federations as I have done up till now. I shall also be engaging the smaller ones with a view to setting similar targets to which I shall hold them accountable and use any means at my disposal to ensure that they comply.

Transformation in sport involves more than just the attainment of unity - I think that we have now passed that stage of unity. It involves a paradigm shift in which nonracialism, democracy and representivity become fundamental principles that inform practice. I will no longer tolerate a situation in which conformity to only the minimum representivity conditions becomes the norm. The practice of replacing a black player in a team by another black player to meet these minimum criteria cannot be allowed to continue as standard practice. A relative team can comprise more than three black players even though we insist on this number as a minimum at the moment.

The recent Super 12 series provided clear proof of the depth of black talent in rugby circles. Any number of black players can qualify for a Springbok team, and I wish to laud, first of all, Rudolf Strawley for including three black players at all times when he was playing the Super

1. [Applause.] I also wish to laud Harry Viljoen for having included seven blacks in the Springbok training camp. I trust that this will translate into a Springbok team that will see similar levels of representivity. [Applause.] Players of the calibre of Deon Kayser, Adrian Jacobs, Ricardo Laubscher and Wiley Human must surely be given opportunities now. I am impressed with Sarfu’s Vision 2003 document, and will monitor their progress toward actualising the objectives set therein.

I want to issue a stern warning as well against the practice in certain federations - and they know who they are - of using the principle of democracy simplistically to exclude blacks from positions in their management structures. Democracy in the South African sports context is more than just a simple numbers game. It is obvious that in terms of membership and number of clubs, white clubs will still dominate. That relates to our past history. When numbers are used to vote predominantly white executive committees into power, we have lost the spirit, not only of transformation in South Africa, but also of reconciliation and nonracism. It is a facade that I will challenge vigorously.

As I mentioned, I shall be hosting a conference on transformation in sport later this year and I will spell out my intentions in this regard in that forum. I gave notice of this at the recent General Assembly of the Sports Commission, which is the parliament of South African sport, and dare I say that I received large-scale support for that initiative. My department will also host a colloquium at the World Anti-Racism Conference later this year in Durban, in which the question of racism in sport will receive prominence.

We are hoping to involve some of the world’s leading protagonists of nonracism in sport, and our programme will feature a soccer match between a European under-23 team and a South African under-23 team under the banner of ``red-carding racism in sport’’. I trust that I will enjoy the support of the members. So we will red-card racism and red-card the members to my left-hand side.

I have recently appointed a ministerial task team to advise me on ways and means to improve the performances of our athletes and teams in international sports competitions. I am convinced that we can better our performances if we pool our scarce resources to prepare our athletes for participation in international competitions.

It makes no sense to me to have separate structures preparing the same athletes that participate in different international competitions. Such a practice, while being economically unsound, serves only to sow confusion amongst our athletes. We can ill-afford the luxury of this level of fragmentation.

I am encouraged by the degree of consensus that has emerged in the preliminary report of the task team against such fragmentation. This bodes well for the preparation of our sports teams in future. I look forward to receiving the final report of the task team.

In this context I would like to applaud the efforts of Dr Joe Phaahla and the members of the task team for the sterling work that they are doing. Their initial reflections on how to divide the scarce pool of resources available for sport and recreation are encouraging indeed. I can only concur that Government and the private sector will have to work together if we are going to make any headway in international sport. Moreover, we will have to be sober in considering the manner in which we divide the relatively small resource pool between the many potential claimants for support.

It is very unrealistic to give specific or priority funding for high performance to all the national federations. It is a recipe for mediocrity. We will have to prioritise and decide on supporting, more substantially, those sports that have a reasonable chance of bringing glory and honour to South Africa in the international arenas. I am not saying that we should not fund the other sports. Such a dispensation will fly in the face of my efforts of getting more people to participate in wholesome physical activity.

I am referring, rather, to our efforts to achieve success in high- performance sports. With regard to our efforts to achieve success in these sports, we will have to set criteria for accessing resources in this category - factors such as the profile of the sport within South Africa and abroad; its strategic importance to us as a country; our own performance in the sport internationally; the success of our disadvantaged people, ie women, disadvantaged groups and rural communities; and the activities that the sport concerned take forward.

While I am convinced that the proposal of the task team will go a long way to improving the competitiveness of our sports teams, I would also like to appeal to the South African public to be realistic in their expectations, for we can never successfully challenge other countries whose funding in sport and recreation outstrips ours by far.

Sports and Recreation South Africa and the sports committee have been hard at work revising our funding policy, the major changes of which relate to the introduction of an outcomes and performance-based approach, as opposed to a compliance one. This is, clearly, in line with the direction which Government has taken in respect of resource allocation.

Allow me to express concern about the slow rate of progress in promoting a more equitable dispensation for women in sport in our country. Despite the efforts by the chairperson of the portfolio committee, women politicians in the provinces and the technical intergovernmental committee on sport to address this problem, hardly any headway has been made in addressing this very urgent matter.

For me changes in this crucial sphere must be prioritised, and I shall be focusing attention on this matter during this financial year. I appeal to all role-players to contribute to ensuring that women take their rightful place in all spheres of sport and recreation in our country.

I am encouraged by the commitment that I have witnessed in the fledgling female boxing domain in South Africa and abroad. And I am hopeful that women such as Miss Precious Baloyi, who umpired in the recent Davis Cup tie between South Africa and Yugoslavia, Valerie Dorset from the USA, who judged the Lewis-Rahman fight at Carnival City and our own Siya Vabaza who also judged an international fight involving Zolani Patelo, can inspire other women to emulate their pioneering spirit.

I am of the opinion that sport and recreation has been capacitated in the past year, to the extent that we have been provided with resources that we could only have dreamt of before. The access that we have been afforded in poverty relief, infrastructure creation and the Jobs Summit, has positioned us, amongst major role-players in the public sector, to tackle one of the biggest challenges of our times in this country, namely poverty. In our quest to access these resources we have argued that the building of sport and recreation facilities in disadvantaged communities can contribute to temporary and permanent job creation, income generation and, hence, poverty relief.

We are committed to making a success of this project over the next three years, with a view to securing these funds, as part of our baseline budget beyond 2004, to facilitate delivery in an area in which there is also a huge backlog in our country. We shall, therefore, be contributing to the resolution of the twin problems of poverty and the shortage of sports facilities, that exist in disadvantaged communities. We have been granted R40 million in the first year of the project, R96 million in the second year and R129 million in the third year, provided we are successful in each of the three years. I am committed to ensuring that success.

Last year I spoke about my intention to bring sport and recreation into the mainstream of Government efforts aimed at working for change in our country. I believe that our building for sport and recreation project is aimed at doing exactly that in the context of our stated intention of integrated planning and delivery. Ours will be a concerted effort, along with those of our sister departments, to prioritise the poor and disadvantaged, and to contribute to rural development and urban renewal.

We shall be building and upgrading sports facilities in each of the provinces, using labour-intensive methods in which we will engage local communities. In the first year of the project we shall have reached 33% of the poverty nodes identified for urgent intervention by the President, and we shall cover 100% of them over the ensuing two years.

I would like to urge members of this House to become involved in these projects in their constituencies, to ensure that our investments are sound and that the communities, especially the rural women involved, will indeed benefit. Moreover, our people must take ownership of the facilities to guard them against being vandalised.

We are also planning to have the facilities appropriately named after veterans of the anti-apartheid struggle, as sport’s contribution to symbolic reparation for the suffering of our people under that order. Surely we can never name any of our facilities ``Douglas Gibson’’. [Interjections.]

In his response to the debate on his state of nation address, the President mandated the departments responsible for sport and recreation … [Interjections] … education, arts and culture and the Youth Commission to design programmes that will engage the youth constructively. We have risen to that challenge and, as Sport and Recreation, we have developed a comprehensive programme that should provide many opportunities on an ongoing basis for participation in constructive activities.

We shall be involved side by side with the Youth Commission, as part of this initiative, in celebrating the 25th anniversary of the Soweto uprisings with a substantial sports programme that, we have intimated earlier, will culminate in a rugby test match between South Africa and France on 16 June at Ellis Park.

In our broader programme, we have also engaged the United Schools Sports Association of SA substantially and have ensured, through this initiative, that we also address the problem of HIV/Aids through their ``Love-Life Games’’. This programme will be implemented throughout the country, from the local through to the regional, provincial and national levels.

In the latter regard also, members will agree with me that school sport is an issue that has remained unresolved for too long. My colleague the Minister of Education and I have come to an agreement that we shall assume joint responsibility for school sport and physical education. The Department of Education will assume responsibility for the curricular aspects of physical education and school sport, including interschool sport at the local and, maybe, at the regional level, while the Department of Sport and Recreation will assume responsibility for representative school sport at provincial, national and international level.

We are still grappling with the problem of resourcing this important venture and we will have to be innovative in finding solutions to this problem. I intend calling a national school sports indaba later this year, in which all stakeholders will have the opportunity to deliberate on a way forward. I call on Ussasa, teacher unions, sports coaches, Sassu and even parents to assist me in making this indaba a success and to participate in it vigorously. We are also calling on all schools, including the former Model C schools.

The past few months have been historical for the sports movement. We have witnessed the dissolution of the National Sports Council and the handing over of the baton, which they carried so successfully along with their predecessors, Sacos, the pioneers of nonracial sport, to the SA Sports Commission. This event certainly marked the end of an era in our sports history and we need to pay homage to all those stalwarts, both in Sacos and the NSC, who sacrificed so much to ensure that nonracial sport prevailed and that it made the contribution that it did, to the liberation of our people from the shackles of apartheid. I shall not even attempt to single out any individuals who played a significant role in these struggles, for that list is too long, and I am fearful of leaving out people who contributed to this team effort. However, I would like to acknowledge some of our compatriots who have passed on such as Hassan Howa, Morgan Naidoo, M N Pather, Colin Clarke and Uncle Bill Jardine, amongst others. [Interjections.] Louis Luyt? The meeting earlier this month of the SA Sports Commission’s general assembly, represents another significant milestone in our sports history, and judging from the turnout and lively debate at that forum, I am convinced that we have a winning formula that will ensure that every sport’s person in our country has access to a structure through which to make his or her voice heard. Moreover, the general assembly will serve as a watchdog that will ensure that the Sports Commission delivers on its mandate.

While I am sure there is room for improvement, the Sports Commission is fast beginning to show its mettle. They have successfully launched the SA Indigenous Games at a captivating event at a most appropriate venue, the Basotho Cultural Village in Qwaqwa, in the Free State, earlier this year, and fulfilling a long-held desire of the President to see these activities that were facing extinction, being revived. The indigenous games will not only involve more South Africans in wholesome physical activity, but will also ensure that we preserve a very important part of our culture.

We must insist that some of these indigenous sports that are common to the South African region should become part of Zone 6 games. Thereafter, we can strive to take them to the All Africa Games and, in that manner, also ensure that we make a contribution to an African recovery in which we are accorded the necessary recognition for our rich cultural history. The Eastern Cape province has just launched their own chapter of the indigenous games, and I would like to congratulate them for that and to encourage all other provinces that have not done so yet, to follow suit.

The Sports Commission is involved in scientific support to athletes preparing for participation in international competitions, like the Commonwealth Games, that will be held in Manchester next year and also the South African Games that are coming in September this year. This fits in well with the proposal of the Ministerial Task Team for a developmental approach to international participation.

We have also witnessed the establishment of a distribution agency for allocating funds that have accrued from the National Lottery to nongovernmental agencies in sport and recreation. Sport and recreation, as members are aware, has been identified as one of the good causes that will benefit from the proceeds of the National Lottery Fund. I would like, therefore, to urge all sports structures and clubs to access these funds, to promote their activities, especially in the disadvantaged areas. The distribution agency has put out a call for proposals to be made, and I know that some of our clubs do not have the capacity to make those proposals. The Sports Commission is there to assist them, so that they can access those funds.

We have had an eventful sports year during 2000-2001. The highlight was most certainly the Sydney Olympic and Paralympic Games in which our teams competed. In the Olympic Games our athletes managed to reach a record number of 28 finals, but were, unfortunately, only able to win five medals

• two silver and three bronze - against some of the fiercest competition that we have ever witnessed. Our Paralympians did us proud in capturing 13 gold, 12 silver and 13 bronze medals and, therefore, endearing themselves to the South African public. [Applause.] In the gallery now we also have one of those gold medalist, Zanele Situ, sitting right there. [Applause.] We are very proud of all of them. We have also said goodbye to Penny Heyns, who has been the darling of our swimming for years. She has retired from competitive swimming. [Applause.] We shall miss this icon in South African sport and we wish her well in her future plans. We also thank the sponsors that have made our participation possible.

Our cricketers continue to enjoy success and they have become the first team in history to beat the West Indies on home soil in both the one-day international and test series, and we have the captain of our Proteas national cricket team, Shaun Pollock sitting up there. We acknowledge him. [Applause.] He is not on his own, there are other cricketers who are sitting with him. Roger Telemachus and Paul Adams are sitting there in the gallery with him this afternoon. [Applause.] The Sharks made it to the finals of the Super 12 series but, unfortunately, lost to the Brumbies. The Tri-Nations series for 2001 looms large and we wish our team well in their campaign. Bafana Bafana must be congratulated on their performances during the past year, and allow me also to congratulate the Buccaneers on their success in what must surely have been one of the most closely contested and exciting league competitions in years. Congratulations to Orlando Pirates. [Applause.] Allow me to congratulate Thabo Mngomeni and Desiree Ellis on their nominations for soccer awards by CAF.

Our annual Presidential Sports Awards function was very special this year, and featured a more representative cross-section of people than ever before. People who were awarded Presidential Sports Awards include Tap Tap Makhatini, Mono Badela, Coetie Neethling, Patson Banda and our own Zanele Situ, who is there. I would like to honour more of these Sacos stalwarts in next year’s ceremony, including people like Frank van de Horst, Joe Ebrahim, Reggie Feldman and Harry Hendricks. I also think it is high time we honour the likes of Denis Brutus who must surely stand out as an icon in the early days of the sports struggle.

I have spoken about the Cricket World Cup that is coming to our country and we hope that it will be the biggest event that comes to our country. The portfolio committee will be engaging with them shortly, but allow me to say that we must endeavour to utilise the opportunities that the World Cup represents to market our country abroad. I would also, of course, like to urge the organising committee to give serious consideration to taking some games of the Cricket World Cup to disadvantaged communities like Chatsworth, Alice, Zwide and Galeshewe.

Bafana Bafana is one point away from qualifying for the second World Cup in a row. We need one point and our guys will be off to Korea and Japan, and we wish them well. We are also gearing ourselves up for the World Cup of 2010 and I am confident that this time we will pull it off. We will be able to run a successful campaign and tournament. I would like to commend Danny Jordaan and Irvin Khoza for the sterling work they put into the campaign. Despite the fact we were cruelly denied victory, their excellent work served as a valuable marketing tool for our country. [Applause.] I would also like to give Charles Dempsey, who scuppered our chances so shamelessly, a red card for his efforts.

Nocsa will also field a team in the Winter Olympics and in Athens in 2004 and they are already involved in different programmes. We also have Dr Sam Ramsamy, who is the President, in the public gallery and we want to acknowledge Sam. [Applause.]

I have been working very vigorously, investigating the alleged mismanagement of funds by Athletics South Africa. Today I can report that I have gathered all the information that will allow me to decide on an appropriate course of action in accordance with my public undertaking in this regard.

The King Commission will present its final report to me shortly and this is something we are proud of. We are the only country to have done this and we must also applaud Judge King, who is with us here today, for the sterling work that he has done. [Applause.]

Lastly, once again I would be failing in my duty if I did not convey the condolences of this House to the families of those loyal supporters who died so tragically at the Orlando Pirates versus Kaizer Chiefs game at Ellis Park. Our thoughts remain with them and we trust that they will find comfort in the knowledge that we will do everything in our power to ensure that such a disaster never happens again.

I would like to take this opportunity also to thank the hon the President, the Deputy President, my colleagues in Cabinet, the officials in their departments and hon members of Parliament, as well as the diplomatic corps and many other countries who rallied around us so speedily to ensure that the families and victims received the necessary support to lessen their pain. The incident left the entire nation traumatised, but we remained strong during these times of potential weakness.

Roy and Althea Nation, the parents of the youngest victim of that tragedy, Rosshwin Nation, are with us in the public gallery today to see for themselves how Parliament shares in their pain. They are up there in the public gallery. [Applause.]

The Commission of Inquiry, led by the able Judge Ngoepe, has started its work and I feel confident that his recommendations will contribute to making our stadia safe havens. Supporters will then be able to support their clubs.

In conclusion, I should also thank the chairperson of the portfolio committee, Sis Ruth Bhengu - as I normally call her - and her committee for the sterling work they have done. I also wish to thank the staff of my Ministry headed by the HOD, Prof Hendrick Suss, sitting over there. I also wish to thank the members of Minmec - and we have one of them here, the MEC for sport from the Western Cape - and the macro bodies and their leadership, who are here with us today.

We have the Canadian Minister of Sport, Mr Dennis Codera here with us. We also have an Australian here among us, as well as Advocate Sonn and Gerald Majola from the United Cricket Board. We also have Rodney Berman from boxing and Mr Koos Basson, who has come here with the whole Western Province Currie Cup team. They are also here with us. [Applause.]

We have Mr Jacky Abrahams, the President of Boland, Gert Smal, the Western Province coach, Dr Ishmael Jakoet, Mr Leonard Cheune and Duncan Crowie. And have I mentioned the cricketers? Amin Dassie and Craig Smith from cricket are also among us. We have students from Blouvlei school and Fairview primary up there in the public gallery. [Applause.]

All these people have come to see how Government ensures that it fights for their cause, and that it draws larger and larger numbers of young people into sport and gets the nation to play. I want to give my colleagues on my left another red card. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members while we are on the point of acknowledging our sports talent, allow me to say that the most devious spinbowler in Parliament is none other than the hon the Minister himself. The hon Mr Lee, who is now about to come to the podium, and myself were involved in a very thrilling last-minute partnership that enabled Parliament to score a victory against the spin doctors, who are really the people from the press.

Mnr T D LEE: Voorsitter, dames en here, ek is van die Oos-Kaap, en as ek so baie blou sien voel ek geïntimideer, veral as ek nog die grote Gert Smal ook sien, is ek eers geïntimideer. [Tussenwerpsels.] Maar hierdie mense hieronder intimideer my glad nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Ek sien kans vir hulle. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr T D LEE: Chairperson, ladies and gentlemen, I am from the Eastern Cape, and when I see so much blue I feel intimidated, especially when I also see the enormous Gert Smal, I am even more intimidated. [Interjections.] But these people down here do not intimidate me at all. [Interjections.] I can deal with them. [Interjections.]]

In an era where the importance of sport as regards national issues such as nation building is being recognised and where big fortunes can be made by outstanding sportsmen and women, where the potential exists for the talented poor to make it big in the world of sports, we need to pose serious questions to ourselves. How equipped is the sporting talent to fulfil their infinite potential? If they are not, how can we as administrators facilitate the attainment of this goal? Are we as politicians or as administrators in a position to criticise them for not seizing the moment? No, I am afraid not, for in this country of ours some sports administrators have come to regard their own interests as more important than those of the athletes.

Our country’s sporting image is repeatedly tainted by one unfortunate incident after the other. We had the match-fixing scandal in cricket. We had a tennis boss calling one of our country’s most successful tennis players and someone who is indeed doing something for the development of sport, too white to be a role model. We had our players in our national cricket team smoking dagga in the West Indies. We had the allegations of corruption that are being levelled at top ASA officials and then, of course, we have the stupifying decision by ASA selectors not to include athletes in the squad for the world athletics championships later this year because at 25 years of age, they are deemed to be too old - this while the President of ASA, Mr Chuene, is not too old to run in the prestigious London and Boston marathons.

These problems are scaring potential investors off. We need to mindful of this crucial factor. Without the necessary financial injection into our development programmes and personal sponsorships, the quality of our country’s athletes will in fact deteriorate. These incidents also point to the fact that there is a serious problem with the administration of our country’s sport and it needs to be addressed. But I fear that we lack the political will to do so and I am glad that the hon the Minister mentioned that he is looking at what I supplied him with.

I pose one question which I believe that …

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Are you rising on a point of order, hon Ncinane? Mr I Z NCINANE: Hon Chairperson, I wanted to ask if the hon member is prepared to take a question? [Interjections.]

Mr T D LEE: I am not prepared to take a question and I do not have eight tickets for you, sir!

One question which I want to pose - and which I believe is but the tip of the iceberg - relates to a missing $10 000 or R71 000 that was given to ASA by the Japanese Athletics Federation for South Africa’s participation in the Acorn Relay some years ago. Somewhere between Japan and South Africa that money went missing. The question is: What happened to that money?

In 1994 is ASA ‘n donasie van R2,1 miljoen deur die internasionale amateurorganisasie aangebied vir die ontwikkeling van histories benadeelde gemeenskappe. Ek sal graag wil weet hoekom dié aanbod nie opgeneem is nie, terwyl ‘n skool soos Slanghoek NGK Primêr naby Rawsonville in die Wes-Kaap, wat maar een van die talle histories benadeelde skole is wat jaarliks tientalle atlete vir die Boland provinsiale sportspanne oplewer, self die koste van hul atlete se deelname aan provinsiale byeenkomste moet delg. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is ‘n skande, dat ons ons jong atlete laat betaal om hul provinsies te verteenwoordig. ‘n Duidelike boodskap word hiermee aan talle onbevoorregte, talentvolle jong mense gestuur, naamlik dat hulle talentvol genoeg is om provinsiale spanne te haal, maar nie ryk genoeg om in provinsiale kleure deel te neem nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[In 1994 ASA was offered a donation of R2,1 million by the international amateur organisation for the development of historically disadvantaged communities. I would like to know why this offer was not taken up, when a school such as Slanghoek NGK Primary near Rawsonville in the Western Cape, which is only one of many historically disadvantaged schools who annually produce dozens of athletes for the Boland provincial sports teams, has to carry the costs for their athletes’ participation in the provincial gatherings. [Interjections.]

It is a disgrace that we make our young athletes pay to represent their provinces. A clear message is being sent to many underprivileged, talented young people, namely that they are talented enough to make the provincial teams but not rich enough to play in provincial colours.] I am posing another question: Are we doing enough to develop the enormous potential of our athletes? Again, the answer is: No. As long as we continue to racialise, politicise and maladminister sport in this country, I can assure hon members of this House that we will continue to face the same issues in sport for quite a long time.

We spend countless hours wondering why our teams and athletes - with the exception of a few, and here I must really mention Pollock and his team - are not delivering the performance we know they are capable of. The answer is simple: We do not invest in our sportsmen and our sportswomen. To support this I want to quote an example, and the example is Ian Syster, a young man from the Cape. I am glad that he is here today. He found it difficult to attract assistance in his preparation for the SA Marathon Championship. Ian was triumphant despite the fact that he was only armed with his personal sacrifice and determination to succeed, the undying support of his coach, George Benjamin, who is also present here, and a pair of borrowed running shoes. He won the title.

Where were these development structures that were supposed to assist the Ian Systers of this country? Can anyone account as to how the money intended for development programmes and support is being appropriated? We should stop fooling ourselves into thinking that this country of ours will produce its fair share of world-class performers if we are not prepared to invest in our athletes.

Investment amounts to more than the mere availability of funds for development programmes. It implies a responsibility on the part of our Ministry of Sport and Recreation to ensure that these funds are correctly applied. It implies that our athletes should be the ones to benefit and not the administrators.

Daar is egter meer aan hierdie aangeleentheid. Ons moet dringend ‘n intensiewe veldtog loods om ons nasionale en internasionale sportlui en sportkodes te bemark. Is daar enigeen buite atletiekgeledere wat weet wie Dikaledi Morapane en Paul Gorries is? Wie van ons vandag teenwoordig weet wie hierdie jong atlete is? Ek is seker nie baie van ons nie.

Laat my dus toe om hulle kortliks aan u bekend te stel. Hulle is jongmense wat met harde werk en deursettingsvermoë besig is om die landskap van naelloop in ons land te verander. Op meriete, en meriete alleen, het hulle hul weg gebaan om hulle ons land se voorste naellopers te maak. Wat die Dikaledi Morapane’s en Paul Gorriesse van ons land eintlik wil vertel, is dat hulle geen spesiale vergunning nodig het om die boonste sport te bereik nie. Wat hulle wel nodig het, is voldoende ontwikkelingstrukture wat funksioneer en wat werk. Hulle het ‘n kans en tyd nodig om tot hul eie reg te kom.

Ons moet ook die gewoonte staak om talentvolle jong swart sportlui as kwotaspelers te keur, want ons is besig om die Breyton Paulses en die Makhaya Ntini’s van ons land se teenwoordigheid in ons land se nasionale sportspanne te verkleineer. [Tyd verstreke.] [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[There is, however, more to this matter. We should immediately launch an intensive campaign to market our national and international sports codes and sports people. Is there anyone outside athletics who knows who Dikaledi Morapane and Paul Gorries are? Who of us present today knows who these young athletes are? I am sure not many of us do.

Allow me to briefly introduce them to you. They are young people who, with hard work and perseverance, are changing the landscape of sprinting in our country. On merit, and merit alone, they have paved their way to make themselves the best sprinters in the country. What the Dikaledi Morapane’s and Paul Gorries’ of our country are actually saying is that they do not need any special concession to get to the top. What they do need is sufficient development structures which function properly. What they need is a chance and time to come into their own.

We should stop die habit of choosing talented young black sports people as quota players, because we are belittling the representivity of the Breyton Paulse’s and the Makhaya Ntini’s in the country’s national sports teams. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]

Ms N R BHENGU: Chairperson, let me acknowledge the presence of the Sports Ministers from different countries, senior officials and dignitaries, MECs from provinces, sports administrators and athletes in attendance today.

The main objective of the Department of Sport and Recreation in South Africa is to transform and ensure the development of sport in our country. Our President, Comrade Thabo Mbeki, refers to this process as ``building a nation united in action for change’’.

For this programme to succeed, this Parliament has a responsibility to create an enabling environment for building a nation. In creating that enabling environment, this House has this year repealed as unconstitutional the Boxing and Wrestling Act of 1954, and has passed a more constitutional Bill, the SA Boxing Bill. We have also passed the SA Sports Commission Amendment Bill.

The initial idea was that the Department of Sport and Recreation was going to be abolished after the establishment of the Sports Commission, as is the case in Australia from where the Sports Commission model was adopted. After thorough consideration of South African conditions, particularly around the laws governing sports, it was considered and felt that it would not be correct to abolish the department when we still have apartheid-related sports laws.

The repealing of discriminatory laws and the putting in place of constitutional laws is an ongoing process. It was also realised that we cannot afford to put in place the Sports Commission in place without providing a nurturing environment for it to find its feet. A department of sport and recreation is therefore a vital structure for providing that nurturing environment.

We commend the Minister of Sport and Recreation in South Africa for playing a leading role in this regard. The DP argues that the department should have been abolished, as per the initial idea. This kind of thinking is not surprising because it is based on a lack of understanding of the processes of development.

The SA Sports Commission has a different role to play. Firstly, it has to provide direction to sports federations and, secondly, it plays a leading role in ensuring that programmes of the sports federations in South Africa are in line with the vision of the Sports Commission and the country. The Commission also co-ordinates programmes regarding the building of sports facilities and the eradication of poverty through sport. The Sports Commission also interacts with the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation for purposes of understanding the needs of the people as reported to the portfolio committee by the public whom we represent as parliamentarians. It also brings to the notice of the portfolio committee issues that need the intervention of the portfolio committee and Parliament and ensures that South Africa produces the best athletes in the world. The Sports Commission also facilitates the development of the capacity of sports federations and ensures that South Africa excels in sport.

The SA Sports Commission opened its doors in April 2000, absorbing staff from the NSC, and some from the Department of Sport and Recreation. The CEO for the Sports Commission was also appointed around that time. It is with pride that we speak today of a Sports Commission that has developed a clear programme of action and presented it to the portfolio committee. This commission was launched on 15 March 2000. At that launch, the CEO spelt out to the whole world the direction of the Sports Commission. We commend the work of the chairperson of the SA Sports Commission, Mr Gideon Sam and his colleagues, and the CEO, Dr Joe Phaahla and his team, as well as the backup support from the Minister, Mr Ngconde Balfour, the chief director, Prof Denver Hendricks, and officials of the department.

On 6 March 2001, the CEO of the Sports Commission, Dr Joe Phaahla, presented a progress report to the portfolio committee, including the future direction of the commission. It was clear in that presentation that the commission is steadily making progress. The portfolio committee raised its concern around the personnel budget of the Sports Commission. That concern was also linked to the fact that the sports commission had absorbed staff from both the NSC and Sport and the department.

We asked the CEO to evaluate the performance of the Sports Commission after its first year, and conduct a staff audit to satisfy the concerns of the portfolio committee around the budget for personnel. That task could not be achieved within a short period. Those amongst us who have project management and evaluation skills would agree with me in saying that that kind of evaluation needs enough time.

The CEO will be reporting back to the portfolio committee on this issue. The ANC is, therefore, unconditionally supporting the budget for sport and recreation. We must, however, point out to this House that there is still some overlapping of functions between the department and the SA Sports Commission. We would like to see a clear distinction and division of tasks between the department and the Sports Commission.

The portfolio committee will further engage the Minister and the CEO of the Sports Commission on this issue. The portfolio committee has an oversight role to play. This includes ensuring that there are no sporting codes in this country that can be denied access to any sports facility in South Africa. [Interjections.]

In April this year, Safa had to relocate a World Cup qualifying match scheduled to be played at Newlands Stadium between our national squad, Bafana Bafana, and Zimbabwe. This was because Safa had to apply to the council for a permit to use Newlands Stadium and Safa refused to do so, believing that it is unconstitutional for the council not to repeal their discriminatory by-laws, and not to make facilities accessible to all sporting codes. [Interjections.]

The committee invited all stakeholders involved in this matter, including the mayor of Cape Town, Mr Peter Marais, for the purpose of gathering information around this issue, and to facilitate a process of ensuring that all sporting codes and supporters are not denied access to certain sports facilities in this country. It is unfortunate that the mayor did not view this as a serious matter. He chose to publicly ridicule the portfolio committee through the media.

We are public representatives, charged with the responsibility of addressing the needs of the public we represent. We, therefore, cannot sit down and fold our arms when sports people are denied their constitutional rights of access to sports facilities. The matter of Newlands Stadium is not over. Councils throughout the country who have not repealed their discriminatory by-laws should speed up that process and allow the nation to play.

The Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation undertook provincial study tours to the Eastern Cape, the Free State, the Northern Cape and North West. In all these provincial visits, we found good programmes that are in line with the transformation agenda. We want to commend the MECs and their departmental staff for the sterling work that is being done.

My colleagues will elaborate on the different initiatives undertaken by the provinces around sport. We must, however, point out that the weakness of one province could be the strength of another. It would, therefore, be important for MECs of sport and recreation to establish exchange programmes between their provinces so as to learn from one another. It is not only from other countries that we can learn. There is a lot of creativity and skills in South Africa.

Different sporting federations have presented their transformation programmes to the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation. Sarfu has presented to us a plan called ``Vision 2003’’. This is a good plan that is aimed at addressing concrete and fundamental issues in the development of rugby in this country. The problem with the plan concerns its implementation. It needs to be bought into by provincial rugby unions.

Sarfu as a national body for rugby does not have control and power over the provincial rugby unions. There is more at provincial level. How does a national body that has limited powers ensure that provinces implement a programme that is developed at national level? This is what was highlighted by Sarfu when they presented Vision 2003 to us.

This situation, therefore, poses a challenge to the standing committees of all sports in the provinces to understand national transformation programmes of federations, and to engage their provincial structures in the same way as the Portfolio Committee of Sport and Recreation does. This will help in ensuring that we are not presented with plans, time and again, that are not implemented by lower structures of federations.

Sihlalo, siyayibonga imikhandlu yohulumeni basekhaya, kakhulukazi ngeqhaza lokwakha izinkundla zemidlalo. Kodwa sifisa ukukubeka ngokusobala ukuthi kunomkhuba ongemuhle wokubhekelela imiphakathi yasemadolobheni ngaphezu kweyasemakhaya. Sifisa ukukhumbuza imikhandlu yohulumeni basekhaya ukuthi yinye iNingizimu Afrika, nokuthi nemiphakathi yasemakhaya iyingxenye yaleyo Ningizimu Afrika. Ngakho-ke, le miphakathi kumele inikezwe izidingo zayo ngendlela engabandlululi.

Izinga lezinkundla zemidlalo ezakhiwa emakhaya liseqophelweni eliphansi kakhulu. Ezinye zalezi zincane kunalokho okuvumelekile, okwenza ukuthi umdlali ojwayele ukudlala kuleyo nkundla encane ehluleke ukudlala uma esefakwe enkundleni yokudlala enkulu, evulekile.

Sicela ukuthi imikhandlu isebenzisane nezakhiwo zamaqembu ezemidlalo ukuze kwakhiwe izinkundla ezihambisana nohlelo lokuthuthukiswa kwezemidlalo. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, we thank local governments for playing a role in building sports fields. We wish to mention that there is the bad habit of serving the urban communities better than the rural communities. We wish to remind local governments that South Africa is one and that the rural communities are part of South Africa. These communities should have their needs provided for in a nondiscriminatory manner.

The sports fields that are built in the rural areas are of a low standard. Some are even smaller than what is acceptable. This makes it difficult for a player who is used to play on a small sports field to cope with players who play on big sports fields.

We ask local councils to work together with sports teams so that the sports fields that they build will be in line with the plan to improve sports.]

It would be irresponsible not to raise issues that have negatively affected the image of sport in South Africa. These include the match-fixing scandal, the Ellis Park stampede and dagga smoking by members of our national cricket team.

On the Ellis Park issue, we want to commend the work of the crisis committee, all hon members of Parliament and also all our religious fraternity for the work done during the cleansing ceremony. It was a painful experience which will remain a part of our history. We commend the work done by Kaiser Chiefs and Orlando Pirates.

The safety of our players and fans during matches is vitally important. It is worrying to note that in two months Africa has suffered five similar disasters where people died, having left their homes to entertain themselves with sports. We call on all stakeholders in sport to come together and find meaningful solutions to these problems. With regard to match-fixing and the use of dagga by our athletes, we want to remind our players that they are our role-models; they are role-models to our youth; they are South African ambassadors and they are national assets, especially those who play in our national teams.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, I must blow the whistle on you now. [Laughter.]

Ms N R BHENGU: The ANC believes that Parliament should provide enabling conditions.

The ANC supports the budget. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Note that I did not show the hon member the red card. I only blew the whistle. [Laughter.]

Mr E T FERREIRA: Mr Chairperson, I would like to commend the Minister on the exemplary way in which he is leading his department. He is a sincere, humble person who mixes equally well with Presidents and paupers, and seems to be everywhere all the time. One will often find him at the portfolio committee meetings in the morning in Cape Town, at the Ministers’ briefing in the afternoon in Pretoria, and in Durban at a soccer match in the evening. I suspect that he has been cloned, and I want to call on the Mail & Guardian to investigate the matter. [Laughter.]

Minister Balfour is a great ambassador for Parliament, Cabinet and South Africa, and he is a good example of how rotten political parties can sometimes produce very fine people. He has been accused of interference in sport at times, but one has to admit that his intervention has more often than not led to an improvement in a particular situation.

The IFP will be supporting the budget on Sport and Recreation. We do not necessarily believe that Government is investing enough in sport, but see this budget as a step forward, especially the intention of investing more money in sport over the next three years.

We are very pleased about the R40 million to be spent on the improvement of existing facilities and the building of new multi-purpose ones. Our visit to Cuba earlier this year was quite an eye-opener as far as sporting facilities are concerned. In Cuba they have sporting facilities on virtually every street corner. They are all very basic - nothing fancy, no high technology equipment - yet the Cubans are the best sporting nation in the world.

South Africans seem to believe that in order to become a successful sporting nation, we need exorbitant and high- technology facilities. The Cuban experience tells us that this is not true. What our people need is commitment and pride in their country which, with all due respect, is sadly lacking in many of our sportspeople. Many of our top sportsmen and women, unfortunately, feel very little for their country - it is simply about money. They find it so easy not to make themselves available for national teams, as their international clubs pay them so much more.

During a visit to the Northern Cape last year we were told by a sports club that a certain top sportsman was invited there to spend a weekend coaching youngsters, and be honoured by the local people. The club was told by the sportsman’s agent that he would do it for R50 000, plus expenses. Is this not quite a sad state of affairs? Surely, we are not against sportspeople being paid well for what they do, but do they not have a moral obligation to put a little back into a society that has been supporting them all the way?

In San Nicholas, a small town outside Havana, we went to a small, very basic wrestling gym, only to find a current world wrestling champion coaching the youngsters. When we spoke to him, we found out that he does it a few times a week. He explained to us that he comes from the very same community and the very same gym, and that it goes without saying that he had to put something back into the community. Do the majority of our sportsmen and women have such an attitude? I would love to think so, but would not put all my money on it.

It is of the utmost importance that we develop a national pride in our sports teams and athletes. A prerequisite is, of course, that our teams and athletes must be successful. No one is really interested in a constant loser. The Minister should consider the launching of a national sports patriot of the month and year award by the Ministry. This award could be presented to the team or athlete that did the most to advance national pride in a given month. From the monthly winners an annual award could be made at the end of the year. The IFP is very happy about the South African traditional games that were very successfully held last year. The Sports Commission needs to be commended for their effort, and we would like to appeal to them not to lose their grip on the initiative. Would it not be wonderful if, over the next 12 or 18 months, we could, for instance, have traditional games in all the nine provinces.

We are very excited about the Cricket World Cup of 2003 being played in South Africa. We are concerned, however, that very few matches will be played in traditional black areas, and apparently none of the very prominent matches will be played in traditional black areas. We are quite aware of the fact that the traditional black areas, for historical reasons, do not have the facilities that can possibly accommodate 30 000 or 40 000 people. But I am sure that one can make a plan and there is still time to remedy that specific situation.

Another issue I would like to address is the issue of Nocsa. We are in full support that bodies like Nocsa should be independent, and that they should formulate their own policies. This does not, however, mean that they are not accountable to the public and Parliament as the representatives of the public. Unfortunately our friend Mr Ramsamy seems to have become a law unto himself, with disastrous consequences for the country.

At the recent Olympic Games our country was embarrassed by our baseball team being thrashed time and again. They clearly were not up to taking part in the Olympic Games. Our men’s hockey team, who are the champions of Africa, were, however, left at home. We hope and trust that Mr Ramsamy’s will is pulled into line before he embarrasses us again. We will not support Government interference in sport, but at the same time we cannot allow people with ulterior motives to harm a national asset like sport.

The final issue I would like to mention is that Government needs to invest much more in amateur sporting codes, particularly school sport. Very few top sportsmen and women reach great heights without having started at a very young and junior level. An investment in amateur and school sport is an investment in future Olympic Games. [Applause.]

Mr M J G MZONDEKI: Mr Chairperson, hon members of this House, hon Ministers present here today and more specifically the Minister of Sport and Recreation, hon guests, I want to salute the sportspeople present here today. I specifically want to salute Zanele, the medalist who is with us here today and who, unfortunately, because of many challenges that we still face, I will not be able to see, and she will not be able to see me either. [Applause.] But that is one of the challenges that I will be talking about.

Today’s debate is a very important one to me because of the role that sport has in uniting the nation and building a nonracial society. And it is for this reason that the ANC will support this budget.

The hon the President, Thabo Mbeki, in his article in The ANC Today, re- emphasises the direct relevance of sport and recreation to our continuing common struggle for the reconstruction and development of our country, and the opportunity that sport gives us to tell the world how far we are progressing to build this nonracial society. We are indeed making some progress in many areas, but we acknowledge that we still have to improve in other sectors. We still need to do a lot to level the imbalances of the past and ensure that our teams are more representative and reflect the demographics of our country. The Government policy on sport recognises the part that sport plays in redressing gender inequalities and discrimination against people with disabilities and the minorities. One of the priorities, as stipulated in the White Paper on sport, is to provide funds for the creation and upgrading of basic multi-purpose sporting facilities in disadvantaged areas. All facilities should allow access to all users. The challenge, in South Africa, is not only the shortage of these facilities, but where they are, and they are not where they are most needed.

While the Department of Sport and Recreation is challenged with the programme of redressing the inequalities of the past, the challenge to redress the issue of disabled young men and women is even more complex. It is even more complex because of the attitudes towards people with disabilities and the perceptions about these people.

I want to talk about some of the problems that make it difficult for people with disabilities to join the nation at play. The first problem is the lack of rehabilitation services in the disadvantaged areas. Many people with disabilities need some form of rehabilitation or habilitation to perform in sports. For me, as a person with a physical disability who is confined to a wheelchair, some rehabilitation is needed. I needed to be taught how to use the wheelchair. And if I am not given this opportunity, it means that I am not given an opportunity to participate in sport.

It is, therefore, crucial that we have community-based rehabilitation centres so that young men and women who are disabled are ready to join the nation at play. Therefore, there is a need for the hon the Minister of Sport and Recreation to involve the Department of Health.

The second problem is that there are no well-established clubs in the townships. Well-established clubs are in the white suburbs and many of these clubs make it difficult for poor black people to travel to such places. Where they can afford the membership fees, transport to take them to such areas is a problem.

It is a problem because transport is not accessible. It is a problem because the drivers still have an attitude. One needs to have a driver who is very considerate to transport you, your wheelchair, your assistant and your sporting equipment. And I am probably talking about people who survive on a disability grant, who cannot afford this extra expense.

The third problem is that young disabled people in the mainstream schools cannot participate in sport because there is no provision for their participation. A shotput or a javelin coach is unable to coach a person in a wheelchair, because he needs special training. Sponsors are reluctant to assist clubs in townships, because there is no good return for them to invest. The tendency is to fund the more elite clubs. There is not much commitment to develop the disadvantaged rural areas.

The other problem is the cost of the sporting equipment. For me to get a wheelchair to participate in sport, I need at least R15 000. And that is not one of the best wheelchairs. This is the case because we import our sporting wheelchairs, and this is an opportunity for the Minister to challenge our technology partners to be more innovative and also recognise some of the companies of disabled people who are involved in some of these initiatives. The Department of Sport and Recreation is, however, committed to redressing these inequalities.

Prior to 1994 there were four organisations which represented people with disabilities - physical, mental, the deaf and the blind. Napcosa was established in 1994 to represent the disabled fraternity in sport and recreation in South Africa. I am particularly happy that there is now a restructuring process in this regard. Many problems were identified with Napcosa and amongst those was that there was a lack of an effective club structure. There were no clubs on the ground to inform Napcosa.

The other problems were the inadequate provision for sport at school, the marginalisation of rural communities, the poor quality of administrators, the shortage of funds for both administration and training, no cohesion between school sport and disabled sport, no communication with Ussasa and LSEN, no awareness, lack of female participants, and a loss of talent amongst the disabled who leave school. If one is a disabled child and one leaves school, the only place where one can participate is some special school, or at work if one gets employed by some company which has a club. Otherwise, one is lost and one’s talent is gone.

There is a perception that money raised by Napcosa was not equitably distributed, and the decision of the hon the Minister and the department to restructure Napcosa is very welcome. We welcome Dissa, Disability Sport South Africa, as an interim structure. We also welcome the Ministry’s and the department’s recognition of the South African Federal Council on Disability as a consensus-seeking forum among various disability organisations. It will ensure that disabled people are involved in deciding how they want to be integrated. I also want to challenge Disabled People South Africa, which is the disability rights movement, that the struggle is not over. There are still many challenges ahead.

Nothing about us, without us. The ANC understands this slogan. The ANC-led Government in the Free State has shown understanding of this slogan. A consultative process where disabled people participate actively is in place. Disabled people together with the Department of Sport and Recreation are engaged in discussions to establish a unified sporting structure in the province, and I believe that this budget will go a long way towards addressing many of the concerns raised here today. [Applause.]

Mr C M MORKEL: Mr Chairperson, I would like to welcome, first of all, the foreign dignitaries, Ministers of Sport, our own Minister of Sport, the provincial Minister, Mr Piet Meyer, other foreign dignitaries, our sports community and other hon members.

My DA colleague, the hon Mr Donald Lee, highlighted some of the major concerns we have in the sport and recreation arena. As a member of this patriotic and democratic alliance, I now take the opportunity to provide this House and the ANC-led Government with what we believe to be viable alternatives.

Although this year’s sport budget is incrementally better than last year’s, it is clear that sport and recreation is still not a major priority within the ANC-led Government. We believe that if Government would invest more in sport and recreation, then it would need to spend less on safety and security, on health and on social development.

This is based on the sole premise that by getting more South Africans to play sport, especially youth and school sport, more South Africans will develop a greater appreciation for the rule of law, more South Africans will be healthy, and less of our people will be dependent on the social welfare system of this country. Yet, the ANC-led Government can afford to spend as much as it does on defence packages and lavish jets.

We feel that, without a proper audit of both public and private sector funding on sport and recreation, we cannot accurately establish what basic needs are not being met. Without the proper auditing of financial accounts of even our most organised sports federations, Sport and Recreation South Africa cannot accurately account for the transfer payments from Government to certain national sports federations.

Considering that it is estimated that, collectively, public and private sector funding of sport amounts to approximately R2 billion, it begs the question: How much of this has been spent appropriately when we see so many sports people like Ian Syster and others without proper support and resources from Government? We need to establish sporting codes. How much has, in fact, been spent on the high performance development of participants and how much has, in fact, been spent on administrations and ivory towers?

The days of struggle bookkeeping must come to an end. Sport and Recreation South Africa and the Sports Commission must build the capacity of sports federations, even down at club level, to meet the basic requirements of the Public Finance Management Act.

Yes, we agree that the Sports Commission should be downsized and we feel that an initiative should be taken, for example, to apply the R23 million labour bill of the Sports Commission more effectively on facilities, for example. However, we have one concern about the facilities programme and that is that we are running the risk of having unsustainable facilities not being managed properly, as was the case with the RDP funding of sports facilities under the previous Minister.

The R40 million budgeted for this project is good and the MTEF budget projections are fine. We have no problem with that. But is it sustainable? Can we say that where there are facilities already available, for example, the parks and recreation areas that we have under the control of municipalities and the sports fields at schools, that we do not have enough facilities, especially if we do not have a database of these facilities? We need a database that takes into account both the local sports facilities and amenities and those at schools before we start throwing money at the problem without making sure that those facilities are sustainable.

On the Newlands issue, need I say anything more than that the ANC branch in Claremont were the originators of the objections to that issue? [Interjections.] The Minister and the mayor have dealt with the matter. The legal opinion of Parliament says very clearly that Parliament cannot summon the mayor. They have not given him a chance to accept a reasonable invitation. [Interjections.] So let us not quarrel about this any longer.

Regarding the sports programme that the Ministry is contributing to the presidential youth/ development programme, we should ask the National Youth Commission whether Government has accepted the youth policy which it submitted to Government in 1997. They have not adopted the youth policy that was submitted in 1997! How can one contribute to a youth programme that would simply be ignored by Cabinet? I think that we need to take sport more seriously. The Minister needs to convince his colleagues about that. [Applause.] Mr J T LOUW: Madam Speaker, I would like to offer just a little advice to the DA and the DP. Please send people who understand sport to the sports committee. [Interjections.] Donald Lee does not look like someone who has ever touched or kicked a ball in his life. [Laughter.] Craig Morkel is confused and the problem with him is that the more he tries to think, the more he gets confused. [Laughter.] The man has a little brain, he cannot even think for himself. That is the problem. This is the type of people that we have to deal with in the committee. It is a struggle. We teach them each and every day.

Sport has generally been regarded as a unifying cause all over the world. We are the first ones in South Africa to have experienced this phenomenon. We witnessed it when we hosted the Rugby World Cup in 1994. We spoke with one voice as a country and as a sporting nation. We were seating side by side cheering our heroes to a historic victory. That was a historic sporting victory after a historic political victory, in 1994.

The historic sporting event that I have just mentioned was televised by all the broadcasting companies in the country. Even someone without a decoder was able to gain access to the excitement of the game. That historic moment should have played a catalyst role in the transformation of sport in the country, and demonstrated to the world that South Africa can organise and host any major sporting tournament.

South Africa also played host to many other international events, inter alia, the African Cup of Nations and the 7th All-Africa Games, the cricket one-day international games and many others. The highlight of these events was, surely, the two African sports events, viz the African Cup of Nations games and the 7th All-Africa Games. These games were important to South Africa because they signified the acceptance of South Africa in the African sporting arena. South Africa was finally home where it belongs in Africa.

What was also significant, especially about the 7th All-Africa Games, was that the games sought to bring Africa together as one continent. Everything about the games was African. The athletes’ village that was constructed to accommodate all athletes was built in Alexandra. This speaks volumes about the security measures that were put in place by the organisers of these games.

The hosting of all these games in South Africa served as a catalyst for South Africa to bid to host the Soccer World Cup in 2006. South Africa’s bid was one of the best soccer bids from the African continent. That was demonstrated when South Africa was short-listed with Germany for the final decision. We lost the bid to Germany not because our bid was not good enough, but because one old man saw fit to give his dying vote to Germany. That was Charles Dempsey. The fact that we were the only African country competing against a powerful country like Germany means that South Africa and Africa in general have what it takes to compete against the best in the world.

Safa has already started with its preparation for the 2010 World Cup soccer bid. The 2010 World Cup will be held, for the first time in the history of the World Cup, in the African continent. This bid will, in many respects, be different from the previous one, because whichever country wins the bid will have to show the world that Africa is capable of hosting any major sporting tournament. The country that wins the bid will also have to dispel the myth that the decision to bring the World Cup to Africa was not to do Africa a favour, but rather to show the powers that be that it was long overdue for the World Cup to be hosted in Africa. South Africa prides itself on having the best sporting infrastructure in the world. We have the best stadiums, hotels and transport system. We can provide anything that Fifa demands from us. Without being arrogant, I can safely say that we are the best in Africa.

South Africa will do Africa proud by hosting the World Cup in 2010. Therefore, we must not rest on our laurels and take things for granted and think the fact that South Africa was short-listed with Germany will persuade Fifa to give us the World Cup. Instead we must forget about the 2006 bid and start afresh. The bid committee or Safa for that matter should consider the following when they plan for the 2010 bid campaign: The provincial and local governments should be included from the planning stages of the bid and each of these structures should know what role to play, because in the previous bid these structures did not know exactly what their roles were; the campaign should also include rural areas; Parliament and the committee on sports should be constantly kept up to date on the developments of the bid; SMMEs should be involved in the selling of the bid merchandise and that they should also be involved to an extent in the marketing of the bid campaign; and the provincial spread of the stadiums is very important. In case Safa do not know, there is also a stadium in Kimberly. [Interjections.] And, that stadium can accommodate any major international sporting event.

An HON MEMBER: A big hole stadium. [Laughter.]

Mr J T LOUW: Madam Speaker, during the 2006 bid South Africa was besieged with many problems and, to some extent, those problems also contributed to our failure to be awarded the 2006 bid. One cannot say for sure whether those problems have been solved now.

Safa should seriously look at the following areas. The level of refereeing in the country is a cause for concern. Some of the decisions taken by the referees in the past months or so were absolutely appalling, to say the least. If Safa is serious about avoiding disasters in soccer, this is one disaster they must avoid at all costs. The safety of our stadia is also important. There should be the right number of tickets for the right number of seats. The easy accessibility of emergency services, both inside and outside the stadia, is also important.

South Africa was been given the right to host another prestigious event, namely the Cricket World Cup in 2003. This is further proof of the confidence that the sporting world has in our country. Even the Hansie Cronjé match-fixing scandal did not discourage the world cricket body from awarding this event to our country.

Cricket has achieved many successes over the past years. South Africa is currently rated number two behind Australia in the one day cricket internationals. The historic win over the West Indies recently was no mean feat. While the world celebrated this historic victory by the Proteas, the behaviour of certain Protea players was both unbecoming and absolutely intolerable. There is nothing wrong with players celebrating victories. But, if players indulge in drug-taking, then this becomes very serious.

These players are role models to millions of young and old players in the country. What message are they sending out to these youngsters, who are looking up to them for sporting advice and inspiration? I personally feel that the penalties meted out to these players did not take into account the damage that the actions of these players did and will do to our youth in future. In his address to this House earlier this year, the hon the President directed the Ministers of Sport and Recreation, of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology and of Education to champion a programme so as to encourage and promote indigenous sport. The promotion of indigenous sport must be separate and not at the expense of Olympic and other sporting codes. We must continue to support and promote these sports. What is important about these games is that they do not require a large financial outlay for infrastructure and expensive kits for players. Apart from the impact that these games will have in encouraging greater numbers of people to become involved in sport, they will also give impetus to a matter that is central to our rebirth as a nation, which is the issue of our national identity.

It is important that we must first become South Africans before we can become citizens of the world. When we as a nation embrace these sports, both black and white, which are enjoyed by all of us across the colour line, it will help us to define ourselves firmly as South Africans and thus, in reality, give us better capacity to absorb and respond to cultures without becoming disoriented as individuals. This will also add immensely to the common nonracial effort to build a sense of African identity, consciousness and confidence, which is so critical to the success of the African Renaissance and the accomplishment of the objective of the African Century.

I am happy to announce that indigenous sports have been launched in two provinces, namely the Free State and the Eastern Cape. The process to launch these games in other provinces is currently underway. The Department of Sport and Recreation has the backing of all the provinces in this regard.

The Presidential Sports Award ceremony was held on 23 March 2000. For the first time in the history of sport in our country, some of our legends were honoured. Among those who were honoured were Jomo Sono, ``Tap Tap’’ Makhathini and others. These men and women are the forgotten heroes and heroines of our sport in South Africa. We commend the hon the President for this bold initiative of restoring the respect and dignity of these sporting legends. South African sport is what it is because of them. We salute them.

Another issue that has been a source of concern to the committee is the broadcasting rights of sport of national interest. It is indeed well and good to talk about taking part in sport as a country. It is good to talk about sport as a unifying factor. It is very good for our youngsters to have heroes and heroines in sport as role models, but this comes to nothing if millions of our people are not able to see their sporting heroes and heroines on TV. Those who are in rural areas who are lucky enough to own a TV cannot even watch their teams on TV, because the public broadcaster fails to televise these games. We cannot allow this to happen. It must stop.

In an effort to address this issue, the committee had public hearings with all stakeholders in the broadcasting industry. I am happy to announce that the Department of Sport and Recreation has agreed on a process to speed up this matter. We will be failing in our duties if we do not address this matter urgently. We hope that the hon the Minister of Sport and Recreation will continue to engage the three broadcasters with a view to making it possible for the sport of millions to be watched by millions, not only by a tiny privileged minority.

We want to make it clear to the broadcasters that we cannot wait forever on this issue. This issue is important to us. This matter cannot be left to the broadcasters alone. Our people have a right to watch their teams on TV without having to fork out thousands of rands to buy decoders. We want some results in the next six months, failing which we will be left with no option but to explore other options at our disposal to speed up this process. This must not be viewed as a threat, but rather as a reality.

Another matter that the hon the Minister of Sport and Recreation has to pay attention to … [Time expired.][Applause.]

Mr C T FROLICK: Madam Speaker, hon members, the key objectives and programmes of Sport and Recreation South Africa have been clearly articulated by the hon the Minister. Several of these objectives have been transferred, in terms of the South African Sports Commission Act of 1998, to the commission. To realise these objectives, R23 million has been budgeted for the commission to execute these responsibilities.

The immense role of the Sports Commission in sport and recreation cannot be emphasised more. After the presentation to the portfolio committee, the commission was requested to re-examine its budget proposals as a major percentage had been budgeted for personnel. It would have been ideal for the portfolio committee to engage the commission before today’s Vote, but unfortunately, this was not possible. We look forward to engaging the commission in the near future.

Sport and Recreation South Africa needs to be commended for spending 92,6% of their budget for the 2000-01 financial year. At the same time, it faces one of its greatest challenges, as it implements a three-year facility development project. In this financial year, R40 million has been set aside for this project, with the focus on alleviating unemployment through a labour- intensive approach to the provision of facilities, especially in rural areas.

The provincial departments and organs of local government will play a crucial role in the implementation of these projects. The capacity of the unit in charge of this project needs to be closely monitored and adjustments must be made as the need arises, to ensure that the overall objectives are achieved.

The role of district councils, local municipalities and metropolitan councils in respect of the longer-term maintenance and management of facilities must be clearly spelt out. Too often the good intentions of the hon the Minister’s department are stifled by a lack of commitment from this sphere of government.

Study tours to provinces have shown that facilities are often vandalised by the community or not utilised at all. At the same time, we have local government authorities who fail their communities by not maintaining these facilities. The establishment of management committees at provincial level to monitor projects and ensure community consultation and participation is welcomed, in order to ensure community ownership.

Ultimately, the success of Sport and Recreation South Africa will not be measured only by the number of facilities built in a financial year, but more importantly by substantially increasing the number of South Africans participating in sport and recreational activities. On the subject of creating sport and recreation opportunities for all South Africans, we wish to draw the Minister’s attention to the insufficient response from sport bodies. They are requesting access to the funds of the national lottery. We call on the department to create mechanisms to ensure that sport and recreation bodies in civil society, and ultimately from the previously disadvantaged communities, benefit from this funding in terms of infrastructure and development.

A major percentage of this Vote is geared towards transfer payments for sport, the Sports Commission, the SA Institute for Drug Free Sport and national sports federations. The increase in the amount allocated to the SA Institute for Drug Free Sport, although small, is welcomed. The high standards and successes of the institute in stamping out drugs and doping in South African sport can only be maintained and expanded with sufficient funding. A lack of capacity due to underfunding could lead to embarrassing incidents for the South African nation in the international sports arena.

The UDM further welcomes the need identified by the Minister’s department for sports administrators to undergo training, so as to ensure financial accountability in their federations. Rumours and allegations of mismanagement of money in certain federations are damaging to sport. Intervening when such allegations are made, administrators should, however, follow the set procedures.

If any official administrator is found guilty of corruption or the embezzlement of funds, such a person should be declared unfit to hold office in any sports federation and criminal proceedings must be instituted against the individual concerned. We should always guard against political posturing when dealing with these issues.

The image of South African sport is a thorny issue. Firstly, there are the undeniable incidents of racism and racial thinking that still occur. The whole Newlands debate comes to mind, which has yet to be resolved. Furthermore, we face the challenge of hosting big events. In this regard we anxiously await the outcome of the judicial commission of inquiry into the Ellis Park tragedy.

Finally, the image of South African sport is determined by our sportsmen and women who must act as role models to our youth. To be a sports star is not only an achievement, but also an honour and privilege that carries with it a duty to the community.

I would like to compliment the Minister on his handling of his portfolio which can be characterised as inclusive rather than exclusive, transcending political divides. As long as he continues in this fashion, he can be assured of our support.

The UDM supports the Vote. [Applause.]

Mnr R D PIETERSE: Mevrou die Speaker, miskien moet ek net eers ‘n draai maak sodat mense die trui kan sien wat ek aanhet. [Applous.] [Tussenwerpsels.] [Gelag.]

Ek wil begin deur oom Jannie geluk te wens, ek verstaan hy verlaat ons Vrydag en word ambassadeur in Griekeland. Ek wil hom ook waarsku, ‘n ander verteenwoordiger wat ons gestuur het, mnr De Klerk, het met ‘n ander man se vrou teruggekom. Oom Jannie se vrou het hom deur dik en dun bygestaan en hy moet sy hande van ‘n ander man se vrou afhou, want hy bly ons Oom Jannie. [Gelag.] [Applous.] [Tussenwerpsels.]

Dit is vir my ‘n absolute voorreg om aan die debat oor begrotingspos 18, Sport en Ontspanning, deel te neem. In dié debat sal ons die vraag beantwoord of ‘n beter lewe vir almal bereik gaan word en of dit aan die kom is. Ek wil graag hulde bring aan ons sportmense … [Tussenwerpsels.] Agb lede moet stilbly, dan gaan hulle iets leer.

Ek wil graag hulde bring aan al ons sportmense wat ons land die afgelope 12 maande met trots gedien het. Ja, almal het nie teruggekom met medaljes of het eerste plekke behaal nie. Dit is manne en vroue, veral vroue, wat ons dag na dag, week na week en male sonder tal gelok het na die sportbyeenkomste, vasgehou het voor die beeldradio of ons ore vasgedruk teen die radio gehou het. Ek praat veral van ons mense op die platteland waar daar ‘n tekort aan seine is om meer as drie radiostasies of meer as een beeldradiokanaal te ontvang.

Baie van ons sportsterre en atlete waarop ons trots is, kom van die platteland en tog kan baie van ons mense hulle nie op beeldradio sien of selfs oor die radio hoor nie. Ek wil daarom veral ‘n beroep doen op die Minister van Kommunikasie en Icasa om dringend na die uitdagings op die platteland om te sien en oplossing te bespoedig. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr R D PIETERSE: Madam Speaker, perhaps I should first turn around so that people can see the jersey I am wearing. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] [Applause.]

I want to begin by congratulating Uncle Jannie, whom I understand will be leaving us on Friday to become the ambassador in Greece. I also want to warn him that another representative we sent, Mr De Klerk, returned with another man’s wife. Uncle Jannie’s wife has stood by him through thick and thin and he must keep his hands off other men’s wives, because he will always be our Uncle Jannie. [Applause.] [Interjections.] [Laughter.]

It is an absolute privilege for me to participate in the debate on Vote 18, Sport and Recreation. In this debate we will answer the question as to whether a better life for all is going to be achieved and whether it is on its way. I would like to pay tribute to our sportspeople … [Interjections.] Hon members must keep quiet, then they will learn something.

I would like to pay tribute to all our sportspeople who served our country with pride during the past 12 months. Yes, not everyone returned with medals or achieved first places. These are men and women, particularly women, who day after day, week after week and countless times attracted us to the sports meetings, captivated us in front of the television or kept our ears pressed against the radio. I am particularly talking about our people in the rural areas where there is a shortage of signals to receive more than three radio stations or more than one television channel.

Many of our sporting stars and athletes of whom we are proud come from the rural areas and yet many of our people cannot see them on television or even hear about them on the radio. I therefore want to appeal in particular to the Minister of Communications and Icasa urgently to see to the challenges in the rural areas and expedite a solution.]

Let my quote the people’s president, President Thabo Mbeki, when he said on 9 February 2001:

The social sector also has its own targeted programme of action focused on the social upliftment of, especially, the most disadvantaged in our society. It will, therefore, implement coordinated programmes in the nodal rural and urban areas we have identified which, among other things, will address such issues as housing, water, sanitation, health, including HIV/Aids, pension pay-outs, household food security and nutrition, poverty alleviation, including the provision of certain amounts of free services, home affairs services, education and training and sport and culture.

President Mbeki het hom vele male uitgespreek oor sport en ontspanning en ek het die hoogste waardering vir sy intense belangstelling in die wel en weë van ons sportmense. Terwyl ons atlete en sportsterre in die algemeen goed vaar, moet ons aanvaar alles is nie wel in sport nie.

Wat wel waar is en soos die agb Minister genoem het, is dat Orlando Pirates die liga-titel van Suid-Afrikaanse sokker ingepalm het. Dit is die soort sokker wat aan ons voorgesit is, dit was opwindend en daarom kon die eienaarskap van die titel eers in die laaste wedstryd beslis word. Ek wil ook my stem byvoeg en sê ``welgedaan, Pirates’’.

Kom ons kyk vinnig na die uitdagings wat ons in die gesig staar. Eerstens, die tragedie wat hom op Ellispark afgespeel het. Wat het ons geleer en wat doen ons om toe te sien dat só ‘n voorval hom nooit weer in ons geskiedenis sal herhaal nie?

Ek wil ook my kommer uitspreek oor die PSL en die SA Sokkervereniging. Dit lyk of die probleme nooit ophou nie. Uit mediadekking lyk dit veral of die mense om die verkeerde redes in die nuus is. Ek wil die Minister vra om asseblief na die probleme in die PSL te kyk, want dit lyk of dié mense nie na hulself kan kyk nie. Dit is volwassenes en ek dink dikwels hul gedrag is niks beter as dié van kinders nie.

Terwyl Ria en Natasha skitterende werk in en vir mansokker doen, kan ek nie dieselfde sê van die SA Sokkervereniging en vrouesokker nie. Daar sal baie verskonings aangebied word vir die stand van sake in vrouesokker, maar ek wil dit duidelik stel dat ek nie in verskonings belangstel nie. Dis ‘n skande wat in vrouesokker gebeur en iets daadwerkliks moet gedoen word.

Die ander skande is natuurlik dat sokker moet aansoek doen vir ‘n dompas wanneer hulle op Nuweland wil speel. Ek het vertroulik verneem die Nuwelandrusie gaan nie soseer oor sokker nie, maar eerder oor ‘n politieke party se standpunt oor Zimbabwe. Agb lede moet onthou Zimbabwe moes op 5 Mei teen Suid-Afrika gespeel het. Daar is politieke partye, en een met ‘n verskriklike groot mond so groot soos Kimberley se gat, wat natuurlik baie praat oor Zimbabwe en Suid-Afrika se standpunt oor Zimbabwe. [Tussenwerpsels.]

In die algemeen het vroue in sport nie dieselfde ondersteuning gekry as mans nie en dít moet beslis aangepak word. So kan dinge regtig nie aangaan nie.

Skolesport het ook sy hoeveelheid probleme en kort dringend aandag. Slegs ‘n paar dae gelede het ‘n stokou debat weer opgevlam: hoort skolesport in Stellenbosch en omgewing tuis in ‘n grensomgewing in die Boland of in die Westelike Provinsie? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[President Mbeki has expressed himself numerous times on sport and recreation and I have the highest regard for his intense interest in the welfare of our sportspeople. While our athletes and sports stars are generally doing well, we must accept that all is not well in sport.

What is indeed true, and as the hon the Minister mentioned, is that Orlando Pirates won the league title of South African soccer. This is the type of soccer we are presented with, it was exciting and therefore the ownership of the title could only be decided in the last match. I also want to add my voice and say ``well done, Pirates’’.

Let us look quickly at the challenges we are facing. Firstly, the tragedy which took place at Ellis Park. What did we learn and what are we doing to see to it that such an incident will never repeat itself in our history?

I also want to express my concern about the PSL and the SA Football Association. It seems that the problems never stop. From the media coverage it appears in particular that the people are in the news for the wrong reasons. I want to ask the Minister please to look at the problems in the PSL, because it looks as if these people cannot look after themselves. These are adults and I think their behaviour is often no better than that of children.

While Ria and Natasha are doing excellent work in and for men’s soccer, I cannot say the same for the SA Football Association and women’s soccer. Many excuses will be presented for the state of affairs in women’s soccer, but I want to state clearly that I am not interested in excuses. What is happening in women’s soccer is a disgrace and something decisive must be done.

The other disgrace is of course that soccer must apply for a ``dompas’’ whenever they want to play at Newlands. I have learnt confidentially that the Newlands argument is not so much about soccer, but rather about a political party’s position on Zimbabwe. Hon members must remember that Zimbabwe was to have played against South Africa on 5 May. There are political parties, and one with a very big mouth as large as the big hole in Kimberley, which naturally has a great deal to say about Zimbabwe and South Africa’s position on Zimbabwe. [Interjections.]

In general women in sport have not received the same support as men, and this must certainly be addressed. Things truly cannot go on like this.

School sport also has its problems and requires urgent attention. Only a few days ago an age-old debate flared up again: does school sport in the Stellenbosch area belong in a border area in the Boland or in the Western Province?]

The only people who suffer from that unnecessary debate are those we all claim are the future that we care about. More importantly, schools in the rural areas lack facilities. The only schools that might have facilities are the previously white schools, and they are so far away from us that we find it difficult to use them.

Rassisme is nog met ons en speel ‘n beduidende rol in die lewe van sportmense. Wanneer ons probleme aanpak, moet ons die probleem op sy naam noem. Wanneer ‘n swart sportman een swak wedstryd het, word hy dadelik gepos, maar wanneer ‘n wit sportman swak speel, word hy in die span gehou, wat ookal gebeur. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Die enigste manier … [Tussenwerpsels.] Ek wens agb lede wil stilbly. Die enigste manier waarop hy nie gekies word nie, is wanneer hy bedank of sê hy is nie beskikbaar nie. Ek wil daarom hulde bring aan die rugbyspan van die Boland-rugbyunie wat weer eens leiding gegee het en male sonder tal ‘n span op die veld gestuur het met nie minder nie as sewe swart spelers en steeds oorweldigend mededingend was.

Die onsin wat baie van die mense kwytraak wanneer hulle van die swart spelers in die span praat as swak, is absoluut twak, en dit is nie aanvaarbaar nie. Al die unies met hulle miljoene rande kan by Rudi Joubert en die hele Boland unie gaan leer hoe vasberadenheid, geloof in hul spelers, ongeag velkleur, en geloof om bo uit te kom ‘n wenformule is.

Ek kan ongelukkig nie dieselfde sê van die ander unies nie. Met die Super- 12 span is dit veel erger. Arme Breyten Paulse is die enigste swart speler in die Stormers, en hy is nie ‘n swak speler nie. Hy is die beste wat ‘n mens kry in die land, en nie net in die land nie, maar ook in die wêreld in sy posisie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Hy is nie meer ‘n swak speler nie, en daarom moet ander swart spelers inkom. [Tussenwerpsels.] Kom ons sê hy is die beste vleuel wat daar is. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Quinton Davids speel vir ‘n paar minute, dan moet hy voorgee om beseer te wees, want een van die getelde spelers moet inkom. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is ‘n skande. Dit is ‘n absolute skande. [Tussenwerpsels.] Krieket het dieselfde probleem. [Tussenwerpsels.] Daardie lid moet stilbly. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die mense kan sy reuk optel dié kant. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Van ons mense maak ‘n ongelukkige fout, en dadelik hoor ‘n mens sulke wolffluitjies wat sê: hang hom, gooi hom uit vir ewig, want hy wil mos nie hoor nie. Die leiers van die koor is bekende rassiste. Die leier van die koor van die tweegatjakkalse is ‘n bekende ``huursoldaat’’ wat nie so lank gelede sy land verlaat het toe dit moeilik gegaan het nie. Hy het in Australië gaan geldmaak, en toe ander mense die land beter gemaak het, terugkom, en voor in die ry kom staan. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Die krieketspelers ter sprake het skuld beken, en aanvaar onvoorwaardelik dat hulle verkeerd gedoen het op die Wes-Indiese toer. [Tussenwerpsels.] Hulle is gestraf, en wil aangaan met hul lewens. [Tussenwerpsels.] Kom ons gun hulle dat hulle kan aangaan met hul lewens. [Tussenwerpsels.] Hulle is ons mense, ons kinders, ons broers en ons sporthelde. [Tussenwerpsels.] Die onderskeie federasies moet hulle rolle speel om die sportsoorte te verteenwoordig ten opsigte van die probleme waarmee hulle te kampe het. [Tussenwerpsels.] Daar is ook ‘n ander probleem wat ek wil uitlig. Die wêreldbeker vir krieket kom na Suid-Afrika toe in 2003. Hoeveel van die velde is in ons swart gebiede? Niks nie.

Mnr J H MOMBERG: Boland!

Mnr R D PIETERSE: Dit is ‘n ou storie wat aankom. Hulle weet lankal die krieket kom hiernatoe. Hulle kon lankal dit reggemaak het. [Tussenwerpsels.] Waarom is daar nog niks gedoen nie? [Tussenwerpsels.] Hoeveel jare na eenwording is daar nog nie kwaliteitfasiliteite in ons areas nie? Ek is moeg daarvoor om gedurig stories te hoor dat ek geduldig moet wees. [Tussenwerpsels.] Iets drasties moet gedoen word. [Tussenwerpsels.] Somtyds lyk dit of die amptenare meer in die nuus is as die sportsterre. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Racism is still with us and plays a significant role in the lives of sportspeople. When we address problems, we must name the problems. When a black sportsman has one bad match, he is immediately dropped, but when a white sportsman plays badly, he is kept in the team no matter what. [Interjections.]

The only way … [Interjections.] I wish hon members would keep quiet. The only way he does not get chosen, is when he resigns or says he is not available. I therefore want to pay tribute to the rugby team of the Boland Rugby Union, which once again took the lead and countless times sent a team onto the field with no less than seven black players and was still tremendously competitive.

The nonsense that many people come up with when they talk about the black players in the team being weak, is absolute rubbish, and it is not acceptable. All the unions with their millions of rands can go to Rudi Joubert and the entire Boland union to learn how determination, faith in one’s players, irrespective of skin colour, and faith in getting to the top are a winning formula.

I can unfortunately not say the same for the other unions. Things are far worse with the Super 12 team. Poor Breyten Paulse is the only black player in the Stormers, and he is not a bad player. He is the best one finds in the country, and not only in the country, but also in the world in his position. [Interjections.] He is no longer a bad player, and therefore other black players must come in. [Interjections.] Let us say he is the best wing that there is. [Interjections.]

Quinton Davids plays for a few minutes, then he must pretend he is injured, because one of the recognised players must come in. [Interjections.] That is a disgrace. It is an absolute disgrace. [Interjections.] Cricket has the same problem. [Interjections.] That member must keep quiet. [Interjections.] The people can sniff him out on this side. [Interjections.]

Some of our people make an unfortunate mistake, and immediately one hears wolf whistles which say: hang him, throw him out forever, because he does not want to listen. The leaders of the choir are well-known racists. The leader of the choir of hypocrites is a well-known ``mercenary’’ who left his country not long ago when times were difficult. He went to make money in Australia, and when other people had made the country better, he returned and came to stand at the front of the queue. [Interjections.]

The cricket players involved admitted guilt, and accept unconditionally that they did something wrong on the West Indian tour. [Interjections.] They were punished, and want to go on with their lives. [Interjections.] Let us allow them to go on with their lives. [Interjections.] They are our people, our children, our brothers and our sporting heroes. [Interjections.] The various federations must play their role to represent the sports with regard to the problems which they have to deal with. [Interjections.]

There is another problem I want to single out. The Cricket World Cup is coming to South Africa in 2003. How many of the fields are in our black areas? None.

Mr J H MOMBERG: Boland!

Mr R D PIETERSE: This is an old story which is emerging again. They have known for a long time that the cricket was coming here. They could have corrected this a long time ago. [Interjections.] Why has nothing been done yet? [Interjections.] How many years after unification are there still no quality facilities in our areas? I am tired of hearing stories to the effect that I must be patient. [Interjections.] Something drastic must be done. [Interjections.] It sometimes appears that the officials are in the news more often than the sports stars.]

The broadcasting of sport of national interest is also not receiving the necessary attention that it deserves. I want to appeal to the Minister and his department to deal with this issue as soon as possible. Hon members have to remember that the federations and sports promoters approach the broadcasters, and not the other way round. They do all these unacceptable things. They sign contracts with broadcasters that will make it difficult for an agreement between all role-players. The debate on the issue of broadcasting has been going on for too long. The question is: How to reach the time frames?

The ANC supports the Vote. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Madam Speaker, hon Minister, I should kick off by congratulating the hon the Minister for his commitment and dedication to his department. [Applause.] Testimony to this is the number of people who have come here just to listen to the debate on his budget this afternoon.

There is no doubt that sport and recreation, as a focus of development and nation-building, play a crucial role in promoting and uniting the South African nation. It was in sport that racial barriers were broken despite the fact that resource distribution, in relation to sports facilities, were skewed in favour of one race in the past.

Today the same still applies, not only in racial terms, but also in geographical terms. Sport and recreation facilities are concentrated mainly in urban areas. It is sad that in rural areas there are minimal and below standard basic sport and recreational facilities. As a result, this impacts negatively on the mental and physical development of our youth.

It has been well-researched and documented that the availability of sport and recreational facilities in local communities assists to discourage youth from indulging in destructive activities. In short, sport and recreational facilities focus youth away from drugs, crime and unwanted pregnancies as a result of boredom.

The Government should make sport and recreation its priority if it is to have a healthy nation committed to a healthy lifestyle. This area of sport and recreation should be seen as a window of opportunity by the Government to interact with the private sector in developing the natural talents of our sportsmen and women and youth in particular.

Tekanyetsokabo ya lefapha le e tshwanetse go okediwa, bogolosegolo fa go lebelelwa mabaka a a umakilweng fa godimo. Kopo ke gore a Puso e tsibogele go itumedisa baswa mo metshamekong, go ba faposa mo kotsing ya ditlamorago tse di tlhakatlhakaneng le tse di tswang kwa mebileng. Bagolo le bona ba tsee metshameko tsia, ba itse fa go tshameka go alafa mebele e e omeletseng e bile ba rotloetse baswa go nna le seabe mo go yona.

UCDP e ema tekanyetsokabo e nokeng. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[The Vote for this department should be increased, especially when taking into consideration the reasons stated above. We humbly submit that the Government should be eager to support the youth, more especially in sport and recreation, in order to keep them from indulging in destructive activities in the streets. Sport and recreational facilities focus the youth away from drugs, crime and boredom. The Government should involve adults in sport and recreational activities so that they should stay healthy. This will encourage the youth to participate in sport and recreation.

The UCDP supports this Vote.]

Mr H P CHAUKE: Madam Speaker, I just want to deal with a few areas that were raised by opposition party members, in particular Mr Lee and Mr Morkel. The issues that they just raised are issues in which the hon members claim that there is corruption in Athletics South Africa. [Interjections.] The Minister invited the hon members to present a document to that effect. They, however, first went public and said that they had given the Minister the document, without giving it to him. We accepted that. [Interjections.] It took that hon member 15 minutes before he could table the document, because he knew for a fact that there was no substance in what he was presenting.

Mr T D LEE: That is not what the Minister said.

Mr H P CHAUKE: That member should be quiet! It took him 15 minutes to present it. But it is very clear and I understand where the hon member comes from. [Interjections.] The last time we raised this issue of South African athletics, we made it very clear to him that the one thing that he must never forget, is that he and Morkel are part and parcel of the people who have created the problems that we are trying to address today. [Interjections.]

But we are not going to be diverted, because we in the ANC do have a policy on sport and recreation. That is why one sees the development that is taking place in sport today. [Interjections.] South Africa is now regarded as one of the best countries when it comes to sport, because we in the ANC have a policy. [Interjections.]

Where is the hon Morkel and the hon Lee’s policies? They have been changing parties like socks. [Laughter.] They do not have a policy. They do not understand what they are doing. [Applause.] Where are their masters? They are supposed to be here listening to the hon members. Where are they? They are caucusing outside. They left the hon members here. [Interjections.]

The Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation has set up a committee to deal with the issue of racism in sport. Morkel and Lee are part of that committee, but surprisingly today, while we are supposed to be concluding the report that will be tabled to the Speaker, they say to us that the portfolio committee does not have the right to call the mayor of Cape Town. The reason for this is very clear. These hon members serve their masters, and they do not have a backbone. [Interjections.] They are not sure of what they are doing. [Interjections.]

On the one hand we are trying to address this issue, but on the other he is saying to hell with the portfolio committee. We are not going to accept that. We are going to engage him and that hon member, so that at the end of the day there should be nobody who goes public and undermines Parliament and its role. [Interjections.] Well, he is making noise because his boss is not here. [Laughter.]

The other problem that we are having is one individual, Mr Lee. Abe Williams was behaving exactly like him - where is Abe Williams now? We are going to give Mr Lee time to sit down and think. We will lock him up somewhere and leave him there, and when he comes out he will be able to think positively. We will be dealing with him. [Applause.]

In the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation we know which parties are very positive. The hon member Frolick from the UDM contributes, because he understands the background we come from. Some of the hon members - I do not know what colour I can give them - have changed. They have even ran away from their own people, whom they are supposed to be serving.

Another problem that we definitelyÿ.ÿ.ÿ. [Interjections.]

Mr J H MOMBERG: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: Is it permissible for the hon Lee to call Mr Chauke a racist?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Lee, you cannot call another hon member a racist. If you did call the hon member a racist, please withdraw.

An HON MEMBERS: And he must get out!

Mr T D LEE: Madam Speaker, I did use the word, and I withdraw. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I thank you.

Mr T D LEE: Madam Speaker, on a point of order …

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! No, no, I do not want a speech, hon member. [Interjections.]

Mr T D LEE: Madam Speaker, I want to address you on a point of order.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! No. Hon Lee, the reason you came to the microphone was because I asked you to come and withdraw. So, if you had a point of order to raise, that is a separate matter. Could you just take your seat right now, because I have dealt with the point of order which was raised.

Mr H P CHAUKE: Madam Speaker, one of the areas that we definitely have to address in this department is the question of facilities. It is very clear that … [Interjections.]

Mr T D LEE: Madam Speaker, can I now address you on a point of order?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! What is the point of order? Mr T D LEE: The point of order is: During his speech, Mr Chauke said that I would land where Mr Abe Williams is, implying that I am a thief. That is the implication. Is that parliamentary?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Is he implying that you are a crook? Hon member, I will look at the Hansard, and then rule on that matter. Hon Chauke, please proceed.

Mr H P CHAUKE: Madam Speaker … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order!

Mr E K MOORCROFT: Madam Speaker, at the same time, the hon speaker threatened Mr Lee with the following words: ``We are going to lock you up in a place, and there you will sit.’’ Is the hon member threatening Mr Lee? [Interjections.]

HON MEMBERS: No, no!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Order! Can we have some order, please. Hon Moorcroft, I listened very carefully to the hon Mr Chauke when he was saying what you are referring to. The impression I got was different from yours. However, in order for me to be able to give a well-considered ruling, I would rather go and look at the Hansard and I will come back with a ruling.

Mr H P CHAUKE: Madam Speaker, one of the areas that the department needs to address as soon as possible is the question of facilities. For example, in Soweto we have a population of about 5 million people, with only one stadium. That stadium was used as far back as more than 50 years ago.

So, what we must then do is divert our resources, definitely to try and address the imbalances that were created by apartheid. It was during the apartheid years, when our people were not represented in government, that when they asked for facilities to be provided, tractors came and scrapped the grounds without fencing them or anything. Only two poles were put there and it was said that these were facilities that were right for them. So, these are some of the issues that we have to try and address as speedily as possible.

I am quite happy that even the UCDP today realises that there is a need for this Government to begin to provide facilities where they are needed. During the Bophuthatswana bantustan they built very big stadia, some in Odi and Mafikeng, very far removed from the communities. Those facilities, as I am speaking now, are just standing empty, and it is up to those federations in those provinces to start coming up with programmes that will engage communities, so that they can begin to use those facilities in those areas.

Another area that we must deal with is the role of local government when it comes to the provision of sports facilities, because they are directly … [Interjections.]

Mr C M MORKEL: Like the Western Cape!

Mr H P CHAUKE: No, not like the Western Cape, Mr Morkel! When I talk about local government he always jumps up because he knows for a fact that he is trying to please certain people. And we are not going to accept that. We do not have a country and a province, separately. His behaviour clearly says to us that we have a country and a province somewhere. So, we have to do away with some of those things.

So, we are calling on local government to immediately, as my chairperson has said, repeal those apartheid by-laws that denied our people participation in sport, and to use facilities in sport.

Again, I am happy to learn that the department has come up with the programme that begins to address the needs of the youth, because if one goes around from here to the airport, what does one see outside? Young people are occupying a small space next to the freeway, because there are no facilities in Cape Town, Gugulethu, Langa and Khayelitsha. [Interjections.]

Where is Green Point Stadium? What is the condition of Athlone Stadium today? This Government is beginning to address them. We are putting money there, so that the Athlone Stadium can be developed and our people can participate there. [Applause.] What did they do during apartheid? They have done nothing! They offered us nothing. Hon Morkel and hon Lee were oppressed like me, but I am surprised that today they are the ones who are making noise, and all that. Their masters are just watching them to ensure that they are doing a very good job. [Applause.]

An HON MEMBER: Bobbejaanspanner! [Monkey wrench!]

Mr H P CHAUKE: On the question of the poverty relief fund that is put up by the department, I think it came at the right time when the department needed that money. That money will be used to built those facilities. We are going to build them in the townships and in the villages, and at the same time we will be creating jobs for our people who will be working on those projects.

We support this Vote. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Mr Chairperson, I want to thank hon members who have participated in this debate. I cannot respond to all the issues they have raised, but I have taken note of their comments. Some of the comments are ludicrous, especially those coming from some of the bobbejaanspanners around here. [Laughter.] I do not have the time to answer those questions. But it is nice to see the hon Seremane away from a bus stop. [Laughter.] I should mention that we are looking at all these issues that they have raised, and we will respond in time with the Department of Sport and Recreation, to ensure that these issues are addressed.

Hon member Mr Mzondeki should be assured that the issue of disabled people is an issue that we are looking into, and I am hoping that, with his contribution and that of the paralympic team, we will be able to really look into some of those matters.

School sport remains a matter very close to our hearts, and we will try our best to make sure that we address that. All members have spoken about the Sports Commission, and I will endeavour to look into the budget to see how we can adjust the budget of the Sports Commission to suit the needs of sportspeople in South Africa.

The hon member Mr Frolick is right about our overall budget and I thank him very much for noticing that. We only had 1,8% of savings and that was due to positions that were not filled, which we are now going to fill. I am very proud that in the first year we were able to utilise our budget like that.

With regard to the issue of transfer payments and financial accountability, I have addressed the ASA issue. I am going to look into it. I have all the documentation and I do not want to be listening to cheap shots from members to my left. I have made a commitment and I will stick to that commitment.

About women’ soccer, we will look into that matter, as well as the issue of sport broadcasting, which is an area of concern because lots of people do write us letters about that. On the Newlands issue, the chairperson has addressed that and I hope that the portfolio committee will be able to address it in its totality, and that they will be able to get the Mayor of Cape Town to come to the portfolio committee. I have persuaded him many times to do this, and I hope he gets it into his head to do exactly what is asked of him.

Lastly, I should also mention that we had a number of prominent sportspeople who have passed away during this period of time. Khaya Majola is one of them; Tony Naidoo and Peter Mkata are the other ones. They have really played a sterling role in our sport, and we will always think of them whenever we do anything in sport. I think I have covered quite a number of things. There is a function at the V & A Waterfront, because we are combining the reception for this Vote with the one for those international people that have arrived. So if members want ukulahl’ umlenze [to dance.] They must please feel free to come to the Waterfront for that purpose. They will be most welcome.

Lastly, on the issue of facilities we have, fortunately, employed a new director of facilities. He is here with us, Mr Solomon Phango. He will be giving a report on all the facilities that they are dealing with to the portfolio committee within the next month, and we will be able to know exactly where each facility will be. We will make sure that these facilities are in the right places. Local government and municipalities will be engaged, to make sure that they maintain them and make them their own.

I thank the hon members very much for their attention this evening, and I hope that they will listen to the next Vote that is coming up. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 26 - Environmental Affairs and Tourism:

The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AND TOURISM: Madam Speaker, hon members, may I start by quoting from a book by Mark Kurlansky entitled COD: A Biography of the Fish that changed the world. Cod is what they call ``kabeljou’’ in Europe, and I quote:

the tremendously influential British scientific philosopher Thomas Henry Huxley, was appointed to three British fishing commissions. (His) commission established the tradition in government of ignoring the observations of fishermen. It reported: ``Fishermen, as a class, are exceedingly unobservant of anything about fish which is not absolutely forced upon them by their daily avocations.’’

Huxley delivered an address explaining why overfishing was an unscientific and erroneous fear. ``Any tendency to over-fishing will meet with its natural check in the diminution of the supply this check will always come into operation long before anything like permanent exhaustion has occurred.

For the next 100 years, Huxley’s influence would be reflected in Canadian government policy. An 1885 report by L Z Joncas in the Canadian Ministry of Agriculture stated: ``The question here arises: Would not the Canadian fisheries soon be exhausted if they were worked on a much larger scale? I say it is impossible, not merely to exhaust them, but even noticeably to lessen their number by the means now used for their capture. For the last three hundred years fishing has gone on in the Gulf of St Lawrence and although enormous quantities of fish have been caught, there are no indications of exhaustion.’’

In the 19th century it was a fashionable European belief that nature was indestructible, that clean air was limitless, that the planet’s forests was always infinite, that wild life could be killed in large numbers without any danger of extinction and that it was impossible to overfish.

One hundred years later, in 1992, the Canadian cod fisheries of Labrador and Newfoundland collapsed. The fish were no more. Canada was forced to impose a total allowable catch of zero. A moratorium was imposed, banning all fishing and as I speak, almost 10 years later, the Canadian stocks have not recovered.

The EU learned this lesson even later as a result of a generation of greed and neglect. This year the EU was forced to reduce the total allowable catch for cod from 81 000 tons to 46 000 tons, a reduction of almost 50%. As I speak, the fishing fleets of Spain and other EU nations stand idle.

The lesson for us is glaring. We South Africans must act while we can. Destroy beloved and life-giving nature and it is gone forever. The EU has now requested the right to fish in South African waters. Our response is a very short: ``No’’. [Applause.]

As a result of careful management of our natural resources, South Africa’s total allowable catch for hake - our most valuable fishery - has increased in the last decade from 138 000 tons to 166 000 tons. It increased from 150 000 tons last year to 166 000 tons this year. We can take pride in the knowledge that ours is about the best managed fish stocks in the world.

The insecurity, unpredictability and unfairness characterising this industry will soon be a thing of the past. At last we have brought to an end the system in which fishing enterprises had to apply for rights each and every year in a ``tata-ma chance, tata-ma quota’’ fashion.

To this end, beginning with the 2001 to 2002 season, we will be issuing long-term rights and these will vary from three to six years: for mariculture the rights will be up to 15 years. Furthermore, black economic empowerment will be boosted. Already more than 50% of the pelagics sector is black owned. We think this should serve as a guide for the entire fishing industry to achieve over the the next few years.

In the 2001 allocation of rights, 56% of all rights were granted to new entrants. A portion of the total allowable catch will be placed in what we refer to as an equity pool. Only companies that have transformed will be eligible for an increase in their quota from this pool. In this way transformation will be rewarded.

Subsistence fishers, those people living along the coastline, no longer need to go through the complicated and costly process of applying for quotas. Already this year 2 431 subsistence permits were issued at the local level and I am proud to say that for the first time in history a large number of women have been directly issued with fishing permits.

The growth of mariculture will be given greater priority. Since 1998 the number of permitted mariculture establishments has grown from 19 to 40, and over the next year it will grow by a further 20. The department predicts that this year the yield from abalone farms, particularly perlemoen, will exceed the yield from the harvesting of wild abalone. Next month I will be requesting Parliament for authorisation to issue the first permit for the establishment of a salmon farm in South Africa. [Interjections.]

The war on illegal activity against those who plunder our natural heritage will be intensified. Between August 2000 and April 2001 alone 900 persons were arrested, 68 701 abalone worth R8 million were confiscated, 13 000 rock lobsters were confiscated, spot fines worth R127 000 were issued and 39 vehicles were confiscated. I wish to congratulate officials of the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism who, on 12 April, arrested the skipper of a foreign-owned boat carrying poached Patagonian toothfish worth R6 million off Cape Agulhas. The SA Navy gave crucial support in this operation. The request for assistance came from Australia, from whose waters the poaching had taken place. The importance of protecting our fish stocks cannot be left to chance. We South Africans must act while we can.

South Africa enjoys the third highest level of biodiversity in the world. Our parks, mountains, rivers, wetlands and the 3 000 km coastline, our wild animals and flowers are our pride and the property of the generations yet to come. From an economic point of view their value is beyond calculation. Our country’s rich natural heritage is vast and staggering in its proportions. For example, over 3 700 marine species occur in South Africa and nowhere else in the world. And the Cape floristic region is so unique that it has been designated as one of the earth’s six plant kingdoms. No other country is host to an entire plant kingdom. So, we South Africans must act while we can.

In order to do justice to this enormous heritage, we are unfolding a holistic bioregional approach to conservation. This strategic intervention in nature conservation is massive and unprecedented. It involves at least 22 initiatives. At the core of the conservation strategy are our protected areas, mainly in the form of parks. Since 1994, when we came into government, parks under the SA National Parks have expanded by 227 000 hectares. There is no other comparable period in the entire history of national parks that expansion took place at this rate.

I take pride in announcing that in a special Gazette, which was published today, we effect 21 land transfers into national parks. These includes the incorporation of the Tokai and Cecilia forests into the Cape Peninsula National Park. [Applause.] Plans are afoot for the incorporation of the Qwaqwa National Park - it is the so-called national park because it was in Qwaqwa, which was a country at the time - into the Golden Gate National Park. The Manyeleti and Letaba Nature Reserves will be incorporated into the Kruger National Park and the Mkambati Nature Reserve into the proposed Pondoland National Park.

We have also proposed to the Northern Province that Nylsvlei, a wetland of global significance, be declared a new national park. The consolidation of the Greater St Lucia Wetlands Park, with its 280 km coastline and World Heritage Site status, is progressing on schedule. As early as August this year we will be relocating elephants back into the Lake St Lucia area. Nature knows no boundaries.

Following the success of the Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park, on 10 November 2000, the governments of South Africa, Mozambique and Zimbabwe signed an agreement to establish the Gaza-Kruger-Gonarezhou Transfrontier Park. This will be the world’s greatest animal kingdom, encompassing an area of 40 000 km2. This is now recognised as the world’s biggest conservation and ecotourism project. This year, we will take the first steps to remove a 120 km stretch of fence that separates South Africa from Mozambique. This year, we will also start translocating the first of 1 000 elephants from the Kruger National Park to Mozambique - the biggest operation of its kind in the world.

An agreement is to be signed in the next few months between South Africa and Namibia to establish a transfrontier park which incorporates the Richtersveld and the Ais-Ais National Parks and which will include the famous Fish River Canyon. Just 12 days from today, I will be signing an agreement with Lesotho to establish the Drakensberg-Maluti Transfrontier Conservation Area. The integrity of a great African mountain, which was divided by colonialism, is to be restored. [Applause.] The Global Environmental Fund has allocated R120 million for this project. The transfrontier initiatives that I have mentioned are an important component of the African Renaissance. They will also be an integral part of the Millennium Africa Recovery Programme - Marp.

South Africa’s valuable 3 000 km coastline must be guarded with jealousy. Currently, 1 350 people are employed in poverty relief projects that are aimed at the rehabilitation of the coast. And, in today’s special Gazette we declared Walker Bay in Hermanus the country’s first whale sanctuary which provides a safe haven for the giants of the ocean during calfing season. This places a strict prohibition on the use of private boats, jet- skis, etc in the bay. In the Gazette, today, we again published draft regulations aimed at prohibiting the driving of 4x4 and other private vehicles on all beaches. [Interjections.] On the Wild Coast, the state has proceeded to crack down on persons who have erected illegal holiday cottages. Forty-six summonses have been served on illegal cottage owners, eight have been demolished and 27 arrests have been made. We must act while we can.

The responsible disposal and recycling of the titanic volumes of waste that we produce must remain a priority. Mountains of waste continue to mushroom everywhere. Litter and filth continue to plague us. We must act before it is too late. This year, Government will spend R31,5 million on funding 20 poverty relief projects and employing 1 892 people. That is aimed at cleaning up our country. The regulations prohibiting the production and distribution of thin plastic carrier bags are now being discussed by Nedlac, at the request of the the plastic bag producers and organised labour. While we respect due process, Government remains committed to ridding our environment of this terrible blight.

I would like to take this opportunity to commend Collect a Can for recycling as much as 63% of the cans that are used in South Africa. This is a world record. The sterling work being done is a source of pride to our country. The Collect a Can project obviates the need for government regulation of the use of cans. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for other products. This year, we will pay more attention to products like tyres, glass bottles, PET containers, building rubble and medical waste.

Air pollution in some parts of our country has reached hazardous proportions. The people in the Durban South Industrial Basin, the Sasolburg- Vanderbijlpark complex and elsewhere are paying a high price for economic growth. Industrial development does not have to be accompanied by denial of clean air for our citizens. A start has been made in the Durban South Industrial Basin. Together with community organisations, trade unions and industry, Government is implementing a package of measures to improve the air quality. It is our view that this should include the banning of dirty fuels and strict control over toxic emissions. This week, we published new proposed standards in which a drastic reduction in the emission of toxic gases is proposed. This is aimed at reducing the sulphur dioxide content of the atmosphere by 50%. We must act before it is too late.

The phenomenon of global warming caused by the emission of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases must continue to receive our attention. It is now common cause that the 1990’s was the warmest decade in recorded history. South Africa calls on the industrialised nations to end the delay on setting emission reduction targets.

The USA has a special responsibility as it alone accounts for 25% of all greenhouse gas emissions. We will continue to play our part internationally in the search for a solution. In the past week Cabinet held in-depth discussions on global warming and Government departments have been asked to work on a response strategy to mitigate the effects of climate change.

We will continue with the vigorous thrust of the past two years to boost tourism. The Celebrate South Africa Campaign in the UK, under the leadership of High Commissioner Carolus, takes our international marketing campaign to new and globally competitive heights. This complements the establishment of the Circle of Sunshine in the UK and also in France, Germany and the Netherlands. These are composed largely of South Africans living abroad, but who wish to promote their motherland.

New investments in tourism continue to flow in. In December last year, seven concessions were awarded for the building and operation of tourism facilities in the Kruger National Park. In November last year, investment opportunities potentially worth R1 billion in the greater St Lucia Wetlands Park were announced. These concessions will be awarded this year. Similarly, the new alignment of the N2 along the Wild Coast, and the establishment of the Pondoland National Park will open up investment opportunities as part of the Wild Coast SDI.

The new Sandton Convention Centre opened its doors six months ago and construction of a new convention centre in Cape Town is already under way. On 6 June this year, which is next week, the soil-turning ceremony for the new Kruger Mpumalanga International Airport will take place.

Our initiatives are beginning to pay off. More than 2,8 million foreigners visited South Africa between January and June 2000. In that period, overseas arrivals increased by 4,4%. South Africa is aggressively marketing itself as a world-class destination for meetings and conventions. This industry contributed R20 billion to the GDP in 2000. We are now ranked number 21 in the world in this lucrative global market. There is no reason why we should not rapidly move into the top 10.

In the past year township tours have been gaining in popularity. I want to congratulate the portfolio committee on holding its annual meeting with the department at a marvellous Gugulethu venue. In addition, the department itself held its management training session at Moretele Park in Mamelodi.

Excellent progress was made in making the 2001 Tourism Indaba, which was held in Durban last month, more representative. The number of black-owned enterprises represented increased from 34 in 2000 to 149 in 2001 - an increase of about 400%. The road to making the ownership patterns of the tourism industry representative is still long. But we are making progress every day.

The United Nations General Assembly bestowed a great honour on South Africa by accepting our invitation to hold the 2002 World Summit on Sustainable Development in Johannesburg. As the Johannesburg world summit will be the biggest global gathering of its kind, it poses a challenge, but also a unique opportunity for us. South Africa’s endorsement as host country for the historic World Summit on Sustainable Development is significant and an enormous opportunity to lead the global campaign to craft a sustainable blueprint for the future. Such a blueprint must put at the very centre, the deliberate and relentless fight to eradicate poverty and to ensure development for all.

The issues that are critical towards ensuring a better life for the developing nations of the world in general, and the African continent in particular, must occupy centre stage at this conference, which is about the planet and its people. Due to the deep significance of the summit to the planet, I do hope that this House will create an opportunity for a special debate on this matter. I have already put such a request to the chairperson of the portfolio committee. May I assure the House that no effort will be spared to do full justice to the enormous responsibility that the world has placed on our shoulders.

Finally, the work that I report on today was made possible by the assistance of Deputy Minister Mabudafhasi and the capable and dedicated team in the department, led by the Director-General, Chippy Olver. I thank the department for their support. As in previous years, members of the Ministry have continued to provide an outstanding service. But it is important for me to report to the National Assembly that the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism has been extremely active in supporting, encouraging and overseeing the work of the department. I found members of the committee taking a keen interest in all aspects of the portfolio and often making valuable suggestions. For this, I thank Chairperson Gwen Mahlangu and members of the committee. [Applause.]

Mr E K MOORCROFT: Madam Speaker, it is indeed a pleasure to follow the hon the Minister and we in these benches would like to commend him for a well balanced speech and for the many exciting initiatives which he gave notice of in his speech. In particular, we welcome his announcement that our fishing stocks will continue to be managed on a sustainable yield basis and that includes our shellfish stocks. Sustainability of the important fishing industry must, after all, be a priority for this Government and all governments.

The announcements that he made about the transfrontier parks and the continued initiatives there are to be welcomed. These are indeed some of the most exciting developments in conservation that we have seen in recent years.

Some years ago there was a popular song about love and marriage. According to the words of the song, love and marriage go together like a horse and carriage. One cannot have one without the other. So it is or should be with environmental conservation and tourism. The two should complement each other. It is because of the beauty of our unique environment that our tourist industry, which the hon Minister dealt with, if it is properly managed, holds such promise of success.

But, basic to this success is caring for the conservation of our fragile environment. It was for this reason that we perused with great interest a document from the Department entitled: A Bioregional Approach to South Africa’s Protected Areas. This document reveals plans by the hon Minister to increase the size of the protected areas in South Africa from the current 6% to 8% of the terrestrial surface and from 5% to 20% of the marine environment. It seeks to establish a comprehensive and representative system of protected areas as well as sustainable financing mechanisms.

My concern lies with these financing mechanisms and I shall return to them shortly. Firstly, let me congratulate the hon Minister on this initiative. Our protected areas represent a shop window of our conservation effort. In many ways, they form the backbone of our tourist industry. Unfortunately, we have thus far failed to meet the internationally accepted ideal of setting aside 10% of our entire land area for conservation. The hon Minister’s scheme will, however, bring us to within 2% of this ideal and, if successfully achieved, it will hold huge benefits for both conservation and tourism, and will represent one of the most important achievements of this hon Minister and his department.

But, and there always has to be a but, there are serious problems to be overcome in financing this scheme. In order to increase the size of our land area that is under protection by 2%, we will need to add another 2 360 000 hectares to the 11 800 000 hectares already enjoying conservation status. Let me just repeat those figures. There are almost 12 million hectares already with conservation status in the country today. In order to increase that by the necessary 2%, or the proposed 2%, we will need to add almost 2,5 million hectares to that amount.

If we accept that the state is unlikely to acquire this land at any figure less than R1 000 per hectare, and I take that as a ballpark figure, then we see that in today’s prices, the cost of the land alone will be in the vicinity of R2 billion to R2,5 billion. It is a staggering figure. It does not include the administration costs or the provision of infrastructure or any subsidiary costs.

The question must arise: Where does the department hope to raise the money required to purchase this land? The document names three possible sources, the Government itself, the private sector and the donor community. What is the likelihood of success? If we start with the private sector and the donor community, we must acknowledge that they have made sterling efforts in the past. The contributions made by organisations such as the World Wildlife Fund for Nature and the international forum for animal welfare have been enormous, but they have many commitments and they cannot realistically be expected to increase their present contribution by a significant amount.

The same holds good for the private sector. It and the NGOs may well be persuaded to increase, perhaps even to double, their present contribution, but given the size of the required amount of funding needed, even this will not make a significant impression. This leaves Government at the end of the day to shoulder the main burden. Unfortunately their track record in this department thus far has not been all that encouraging. In Programme 7 of the budget before us, the state has provided R8 million for the purchase of land. This translates roughly into 8 000 hectares which, although welcome - and I am not trying to knock this contribution, I am just looking at it in terms of the relative need - is much less than even 1% of what is going to be required.

There is a definite problem there, but what about the provincial governments? Could they not be persuaded to come to the party? As far back as 1998 the Kumleben Board of Inquiry revealed that provincial protected areas were in dire financial difficulties, so much so that in certain provinces there have been massive retrenchments of staff. In KwaZulu-Natal alone, for example, some 700 employees have either been retrenched or are about to be retrenched. This has led to a great deal of unhappiness and uncertainty. Employees in that province have become demoralised. Elsewhere there have been losses of highly qualified administrators and research workers. There would be, under these circumstances, very little chance of significant contributions coming from the provinces.

The responsibility therefore clearly rests with central Government. We in these benches want the initiatives to succeed, but we do foresee these difficulties on the path ahead. Perhaps the hon Minister will either prove my arithmetic wrong or he will allay my fears about the availability of funding. Either way we will welcome it, because we need to increase the protected areas in the way proposed. We are the last generation for whom this possibility exists. In another 20 or 30 years it will be too late. The Minister’s comments will therefore be much appreciated.

The DP supports this Vote. [Applause.]

Ms G L MAHLANGU: Madam Speaker, I am very happy about the kind words of the Minister. The men and women that I work with who are really committed to environmental affairs and tourism made everything possible. What pleases me more is that I thought Mr Moorcroft and I only worked together, but I realised this afternoon that we share the same music, that song goes: ``You can’t have one without the other.’’ [Laughter.]

I want to thank the Minister for the plan that he has outlined this afternoon. I am pleased to see that the department and departmental officials took most of the issues that we raised in the portfolio committee during the last two years seriously.

The 21st century offers the human race a unique challenge, a challenge that we in South Africa earnestly look forward to for providing a context for each discussion by the international community. As a human race we have been faced with environmental problems. But scarcely have the countries of the world addressed these problems collectively until the latter part of the last century. This is what is unique about these challenges.

The Rio Summit held in July 1992 was undoubtedly one of the greatest gatherings of world leaders. Many delegates left the summit feeling that the occasion had marked a new beginning, a new realism and a new accommodation between the rich north and the poor south. A significant number of people saw such an accommodation as possible and necessary, but as we now know, almost a decade on, it will not come easily.

The industrial North dominates the order of the global agenda and this is not poor South rhetoric. For example, the way that economic development is conventionally understood suggests that the north prefigures the south as a market for goods and services. It is only a matter of time before access to the goods enjoyed by consumers in the north is widened to include many in the south. Yet, this view of development is increasingly inadequate. In the 1970s limits to growth were judged to be shortages in materials and food shortfalls.

However, from the perspective of the 1990s, the view is different. Today it is the externalities of growth which provide the limits. Patterns of consumption are driven by effective demand in the north, but the outcome of increased consumption of resources in the form of changes in climate and biodiversity is felt throughout the globe.

In addition, and this is very critical, there is a wide and increasing divergence between northern environmental agendas and the developmental agenda shared by most in the poor south. The meeting of UNCED (UN Conference on Environment and Development) in Rio in July 1992 only served to emphasise these differences. In Rio the central issues of poverty, trade and debt crises were neglected by most northern governments. As a result the outcome of Rio was a set of commitments which were impressive, but failed to secure the necessary financial basis for the transfer of funds from the north to the south.

We have, of course, moved on from Rio, and we are heading to Johannesburg. The debt crisis is in the foreground of the global environmental agenda because poverty has important environmental dimensions, for instance a rural household’s lack of fertile land on which to make an adequate living or an urban household’s lack of safe and sufficient water supplies. This relationship between poverty and the environment is hardly one that is drawn out in the global environmental agenda. It is hoped that Johannesburg will make a shift in this direction. I should not dwell much on this because my colleagues will be dealing with it.

We have come a long way in improving environmental problems, in looking at environmental problems and improving environmental legislation from the Connep process up to the National Environmental Management Act. It is also important for us to inform hon members that we have passed another piece of legislation today, the South African Weather Service Bill. We are now faced with the Johannesburg Earth Summit where, amongst other things, we should showcase our successes since our commitment to the Rio Summit. My colleagues will deal with that in detail.

In the Northern Cape we still have 15 000 asbestos sufferers. On average 12 people a month die in the area of Prieska. Some of them are in hospital suffering from asbestosis, a disease that destroys the lungs and eventually kills the victims. We still talk about Thor Chemicals. The community of the Cato Ridge area is still waiting for us to address their plight. We think about Cele, Ngcobo and Dlamini who have sacrificed their lives by working for Thor Chemicals in the Cato Ridge area.

In 1995 we had the Macassar disaster. Whenever I drive past Macassar to entertain myself - when I have time to do so, to the Strand beachfront - I always feel very ashamed, because there are so many questions that we have still not answered.

In some areas today, these potentially dangerous chemicals and products continue to be stored or transported to warehouses, even within residential areas, threatening disasters like fires, explosions, leakages and exposure of communities to harmful gases.

The above incident cannot reside in a South Africa which has the environment as a right contained in the Bill of Rights of our Constitution, nor where the National Environmental Management Act - commonly known as Nema - is in operation and in place, an Act which dictates that workers have a right to be informed about the dangers they are exposed to in their work situation. They further have a right to refuse to work under those conditions. This Act still calls for the polluter case principle. A big question is: Are the polluters paying? Are we able to enforce what we are legislating?

At the second International Tourism Forum held in Indonesia in September 1996, we as South Africa joined tourism policy-makers in resolving that the development of tourism should be aimed at raising the wellbeing of local communities, promoting mutual understanding to achieve peace, the conservation of nature and the environment and the preservation of traditions, as well as social, cultural and religious values.

The big question is whether communities and host communities are benefiting from tourist activities. This afternoon we have with us in the gallery some of the disadvantaged players in the tourism industry. These are the people we speak about on the podiums of Parliament, on whom we call to come and participate. However, as soon as they come, we do not give them the market. We still support the rich people. We do not use their taxis and combis. Some of them have been trained as tour guides and tour operators. They cannot use that experience, because they are shut out by existing businesses.

South Africa is a very rich country, both through tourism and its environment. We should be able to create employment and business opportunities for South Africans, thus promoting and ensuring a better life for all.

At the end of the conference of the of the ATA, the Africa Travel Association, David Saunders said the following, which was actually meant for the Minister:

A visit to South Africa can truly be a dream, a dream of a lifetime, a dream come true. It is a country full of cultural diversity, marvellous scenery, fantastic wildlife and magical diversity. South Africa’s diverse culture comes alive in its multi-ethnic heritage: arts, cuisine and sports. South Africa is a destination bustling with friendly people, people of poetry, dance and song.

I would like to conclude by quoting the President:

The majority of people present in this Chamber are South Africans. Outwardly we are a people of many colours, races, cultures, languages and ethnic origins, yet we are tied to one another by a million visible and invisible threads. We share a common destiny from which none of us can escape, because together we are human, we are South Africans, we are Africans.

I want to take this opportunity to wish all the members of the portfolio committee excellent deliberations in this debate.

The ANC will be supporting this budget. [Applause.]

Mrs L R MBUYAZI: Chairperson, hon members, firstly, I would like to thank the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism and his department, led by Dr Oliver, for a job well done, especially on tourism. One can go anywhere in the rural areas and they will tell one about tourism. They will say that they want to develop tourism. It is because of the work that we have done, especially on the Welcome Campaign.

We want to thank the Minister for helping the disadvantaged communities to be part of the exhibition at the Durban Tourism Indaba, with the involvement of all the provincial tourism authorities of course. There is still room for improvement on this. That was the beginning. We still need more people who come from rural areas to promote rural tourism, and others to promote township tourism, as the Minister has rightly said here.

The launch of the Welcome Campaign has created awareness among all South Africans about the importance of tourism.

Ngesikhathi sikhula uma umuntu ethi ukhuluma ngendaba yokuvakasha, kwakuyaye kuthiwe uyakhenka. Intombazane ayiyi ndawo iyakhenka! Kodwa namhlanje uma ukhuluma ngokuvasha sewuyakwazi nokusho ukuthi ingane yami ayikho, ivakashile, baku-Tour. I-Tourism sekuyigama nje elihle kanti kuqala besithi ukukhenka. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[When we were young, when a person talked about tourism, he was thought to be a runaway. A girl was not allowed to go anywhere, because then she would be a runaway. Today one can talk about tourism. One could even say that one’s child is away, he is on a tour. Tourism is a good term now. In the past it meant to run away.]

We commend the department for having allocated the sum of R175 million for poverty relief in 2001-02. An amount of R50 million has been set aside for local tourism infrastructure. We would like to see rural areas, especially in KwaZulu-Natal, accessing such funds, not only in KwaZulu, but also in the Eastern Cape and all other provinces which have rural areas. Tour guides will have to be thoroughly trained, particularly in the local history and culture, also regarding the care of the disadvantaged and disabled community.

Ilungu elihloniphekile uMnu uMzondeki ukhulume kabanzi ngokuba nabantu abanenhliziyo yokukwazi ukunakekela abantu bakithi abakhubazekile ukuze bakwazi ukubathatha. Siyabona ezokuvakasha kuleyo ndawo zisaqhuga, ekutheni kube khona abantu abaphelezelayo, bavakashiswe kahle abantu abeswele futhi abakhubazekile. Ngiyathanda ukukuphakamisa lokhu. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[The hon Mr Mzondeki spoke at length about the importance of having people who have the patience to care for our disabled people and who could even carry them. We know that tourism is still lagging behind in that area. There are no people to accompany disabled tourists. I would like to put this on record.]

This reflects that the department is efficiently operating within the scope of the Batho Pele programme, and other related programmes aimed at addressing social inequities. The poverty-relief programme will have to consider the impact of these projects on the quality of life of the poor people within the community.

The problem is how to access these funds. Not everybody knows how to draw up a business plan. As I have said earlier, everybody now talks about tourism, but the problem is funding. Funds are there in the department, but how to dig them up is the problem. The capacity of the department to support tourism through the creation of additional high-level posts will, indeed, shape the envisaged focus on promoting growth in tourism.

I want to touch on marine and coastal management. The IFP would like to applaud the department for having put out a tender for new vessels that will patrol the fishing reserves in the exclusive economic zone. This move will protect these areas from illegal fishing activities.

The intention to establish a rights allocation unit is a step in the right direction. This will help most disadvantaged fishers whose livelihood solely depends on fishing, but are denied access by stringent bureaucracy. Since the known annual limit of 500 applications has risen to 11 000 applications, this co-ordination unit will reflect that there is a sense of urgency in resolving the plight of disadvantaged communities, and black economic empowerment will be boosted.

We want the Minister to state the position of the subsistence fisherman. Of course he has stated this as he was delivering his speech, so that issue has been dealt with. We, however, want him to elaborate on the role of the poverty-relief programme in this regard.

The hosting of the 2002 Johannesburg Earth Summit by the department in particular, and South Africa in general, indicates that the UN itself has recognised the environmental strategies of the department and the country to be in line with universal sustainable development strategies. The IFP, therefore, compliments the department on having received such accolades from the international community.

Agenda 21 remains a fundamental programme of action for achieving sustainable development that requires integration of the economic, social and environmental components, enabling the poor to achieve sustainable livelihood. It should provide an integration factor that allows policies to address issues of development, sustainable resource, management and poverty eradication, recognising the role of the indigenous people and their communities in the programme of sustainable development.

Over many years indigenous people have evolved a holistic traditional, scientific knowledge of land and the environment. Their ability to practice sustainable development on lands has been limited by economic, social and historical factors. Indigenous people should actively participate in the conference. Indigenous people should be put on the agenda, especially on food, drinks, plants and seeds.

Local authorities have a key role to play in making sustainable development happen. They need to be engaged in this conference. After the conference South Africa and Africa must benefit from it, especially in respect of poverty alleviation.

There are so many conventions in this department. South Africa is a signatory to a variety of the international agreements dealing with environmental issues. May I mention a few - the Montreal Protocol on substances that deplete the ozone layer, which is based on the Convention on the Control of Transborder Movement of Hazardous Waste and Disposal, the Ramsa Convention, Convention on Wetlands, the UN Framework Convention on Climatic Change, Sustainable Development on RioPlus10 and Agenda 21, which is what I have dealt with right now.

I know Mr Minister has a tight schedule, but we would appreciate if he could find time to make a statement on these protocols for the benefit of those who are listening at home and for all of us. I salute the Minister, because we have touched on some of the matters that he would love to look at during the presentations this morning in our portfolio committee deliberations. I would also like to touch on the global warming and the globalisation problem, which have effects on floods and drought conditions. During the floods homes are damaged and destroyed, leaving a multitude of people homeless. Current reports show that in countries in Africa and South Africa, hundreds of people have been displaced. The floods also destroy sanitary facilities, sewerage pipes are blocked, resulting in a leakage of human waste. This results in cholera outbreaks. Drought conditions, on the other hand, cause food and water shortages. Generally, lack of water is a problem. People have no choice but to use unsafe sources of water which have a high concentration of pollutants. This also results in cholera outbreaks. I am raising these points to support the sustainable development concept.

Lastly, I touch on programme 7, the outsourcing of biodiversity and the heritage. In 1999 South Africa and Botswana signed a historic agreement to manage the Gemsbok Park and the Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park agreement. The Minister has said that nature knows no boundary.

Izilwane ziyazinqamulela nje zishone laphaya. [Animals just cross over to that side freely.]

We have our own boundaries, but what he did was very good.

Ngithi kuNgqongqoshe ngeke ngiqede ngingakhulumanga ngendawo yase-St Lucia Wetlands Park. [I would like to inform the hon the Minister that I will not conclude my speech without talking about the St Lucia Wetlands.]

People there will benefit from the funds that have been allocated. I am saying Viva St Lucia, Viva! [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms S B NQODI: Mr Chairperson, one of the most important focuses of Government debates, over and above the monetary allocation to different ministerial programmes in a given financial year, is the constant monitoring of Government spending and savings in such a way that there is a clear reflection on and illustration of the country’s economic performance, and that its impacts on the lives of ordinary people is understood, especially by members of this House.

As a committee, we welcome with excitement the outcome of the international bidding process for the hosting of the ten-year review of the first earth summit conference held in Rio. The Johannesburg World Summit on Sustainable Development in September 2002 is the outcome of that bidding process. To a large extent, let me hasten to say that the topic allocated to me by the chairperson of this committee is nothing else but an elaboration on the 2002 summit with the aim of shedding more light and understanding to members of this House.

Unlike the Rio Conference, which specifically focused on the environment, this will be a multisectoral conference focusing on sustainable development, central to which will be the intensive debate on poverty alleviation and its eradication throughout the world, especially in Africa. The conference will be discussing issues that cut across all Ministries and departments at all levels of Government, with the aim of looking at what is actually happening in people’s lives. In all the different sectors of our society we know that this conference will be relevant.

The summit comes with challenges which we will have to handle tactfully as a nation and as a hosting country, bearing in mind that its success and failure will definitely have long-lasting effects on the image of this country, subregionally, regionally and globally. Although as a country we were not part of the Earth Summit Conference in Rio 10 years ago, today, as a member state of the UN after the 1994 elections, and as a signatory to most of its agreements, citations and conventions, it is imperative that we also table our national review on the Rio commitments. Having won the bidding for hosting the conference, it is incumbent on us to start embarking immediately on a rigorous public awareness campaign and thorough planning, preparation and involvement of all stakeholders during the 18 months we have to prepare for this summit.

The summit is said to be the biggest ever convention the world has seen. It is also expected to be five times bigger than the recent World Aids Conference in Durban. Definitely, this is a big challenge and a mammoth task facing us as a nation.

Members of this House are to intensify Goverment’s public awareness campaigns not only in their constituencies, but also in their daily interaction with people within the country and abroad, especially during our visits to different countries, as we usually do for different missions and agendas on our trips. This also goes further to challenge even the very level of our debates, which most of the time, deliberately or undeliberately, give a negative portrayal of this country’s Government as soon as they end up in mischievous hands, leading to distorted interpretations by the rightwing media.

If we are all committed, as members of Parliament, to the major challenges facing our very existence and the livelihoods of the majority of the people that we represent, I am sure that we will all agree that the root of all evil in Africa as a whole - unlike in the western and northern hemispheres of the global world, where money is an influential evil - is persistent, ruthless poverty from the cradle to the grave. Fortunately, the summit will give us, as a country and as a continent, a wonderful opportunity to put on the summit agenda poverty eradication and alleviation as an African agenda, to seek a solution from the international world for the simple reason that where we are and what we are today, was of our own making. In the process of preparing this summit as members, one has to work hand in hand with our Government, especially with our newly configured local government councils, who are actually the custodians of the implementation of local Agenda 21.

We have to give them the necessary support, where needed, to influence Government to provide sufficient funding that will enable them and the co- ordinating structures to rise to the occasion. As from September this year the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism will be embarking on a national marketing and co-ordinating strategy aimed at monitoring progress of the the implementation of Agenda 21 at grassroots level.

With regard to the budget implications for the hosting and the preparation of this summit, I hope this multisectoral conference will not be confined to one Ministry in Government. According to this department’s report to the committee, there are approximately 14 national Ministries which, through the approval of the Cabinet, have committed R35 million for this summit. An amount of R20 million is budgeted for the current year and R15 million for the next financial year. There is also an amount of R50 million as a contribution by the Johannesburg City Metropole, 80% of which will be in kind, covering things such as police support services and transportation. After the signing of the memorandum of understanding between this department and Salga in March 2001, the department will be transferring an amount of about R300 000 to Salga, so as to expedite the process of the implementation of the local Agenda 21 by the local authorities.

According to the newly appointed chief executive officer of the section 21 company which will be co-ordinating the summit, the total estimated costs for the summit is in the vicinity of approximately R450 million. I am sure the question that members have is whether we will be able, as Government, to raise this capital amount. In response to that, let me reiterate the fact that since this is a multisectoral conference which is aimed at focusing on the needs and the interests of all the targeted groups, it is no mistake that funding will also be sourced from business, corporate sponsorships and through the persuasion of international donors.

It is also worth noting that, as the hosting country, we shall have to bear the UN incremental costs, which are the fees paid by the hosting country to the UN for any UN conference held outside the UN. I believe that it is only fair also to make a synopsis of the research study conducted by Grant Thornton and Feinstein when they looked at the spinoffs to be enjoyed by this country for hosting the summit. It is projected that the conference will come with an opportunity to create massive wealth benefits. International spending alone is projected at R530 million at the time of the conference, with a further expenditure of an additional million rands that will be generated pre and post the summit.

Again, another projection is that the country’s economy will receive a cash injection of R1,3 billion. [Applause.]

Mr J W LE ROUX: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister and colleagues, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Minister, the department and the committee for their total commitment to the protection of the environment.

I shall briefly comment on the controversial Coega deep-sea harbour development. There are three major concerns raised regarding this development. Firstly, there is a lobby which says that the scheme is not financially viable; secondly, that the environmental damage done will be a disaster on its own and, thirdly, that tourism will be dealt a body blow by this development.

The DA’s position is that we will support any development that will create wealth and jobs, with the major proviso that the environmental impact is within internationally accepted limits and that any such environmental impact will be effectively monitored and policed over the entire lifespan of the development.

As far as the viability of the project is concerned, any development, large or small, has a risk factor and all developers know that one must take certain precautions to minimise the risk involved. One way of minimising the risk is to have an anchor tenant.

However, it certainly does not mean that the development will fail if one does not have such an anchor tenant. At present the P & O Nedlloyd container terminal will be located at Coega. The manganese ore facility and existing oil tanks will also relocate to Coega. Any development takes up to six years to become profitable and there are examples where large developments have succeeded without an initial anchor tenant.

The Eastern Cape desperately needs a new growth point to kick-start the economy and the psychological impact of getting Coega off the ground will, in itself, be very important for this region. Sceptics say that Coega will be another Mossgass. This is really proposterous simply because we need infrastructure in the Eastern Cape and the Mossgass development and its infrastructure can in no way be compared with the infrastructure that will be created at Coega.

Obviously, there are opposing views about the viability of this development, but what is absolutely true is that if we, firstly, keep on talking this scheme down it could definitely fail. Secondly, any development such as this does create an environmental impact. The only solution is to minimise the impact with very strong internationally acceptable norms and standards.

It is absolutely essential to have a comprehensive environmental management plan in place. The plan must ensure the safety of the marine reserves, including the penguin population. The visual impact, as well as air and land pollution, must be kept within minimum acceptable standards. This is essential for this development and for any such development throughout our country.

As far as tourism is concerned, it is a fact that this development is very close to the Eastern extremity of the Addo Park. Normally one would like the area around a major tourist attraction such as Addo to be pristine. At the moment the area in question is anything but pristine. Township development is taking place in this area. There are factories in this area and plastic pollution is already a major concern. In the foreseeable future this area will further develop as a residential and industrial area, with or without the Coega development.

The Eastern Cape has the potential to become a major tourist destination. We have the Garden Route, the Tsitsikama Park, the Baviaans and Groendal wilderness areas, the most beautiful beaches in South Africa, the Addo Park, the Kwagga Park and the world-renowned Shamwari game farm, as well as the best hunting and fishing spot in South Africa, Happy Valley.

The relocation of the manganese ore facility and the oil storage tanks will create a new tourist facility at the existing harbour and beach. To argue that the Coega project will scuttle tourist development in the Eastern Cape is simply not true. [Applause.]

Mr M U KALAKO: Mr Chairperson, Minister and hon members, the progress made by the department since the passing of the National Environmental Management Act of 1998 is noted and must be commended. To this effect the money budgeted by the department for the implementation of the Act in 2000- 01 has been increased. We know that the department, at the moment, is busy with preparations for the Johannesburg Earth Summit 2002, its major theme being sustainable development.

Having said the above, it is important to note that as recently as last year South Africa was rated among 10 top toxic hotspots around the world. It is a challenge for our department to co-ordinate efforts and initiatives with provincial and local governments, the business sector and community organisations to address this problem. I am happy that the Minister has already indicated to us that measures are under way to actually deal with this problem.

The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has already embarked on education and capacity-building programmes in order to make sure that our communities are aware of the dangers of pollution and dumping of waste, but these programmes have not yet reached some local authorities. Some of these local authorities do not go beyond putting up signs against dumping of waste.

They have not yet embarked on programmes that will involve communities in townships, and they have not made them aware that the dumping of waste in their residential areas is illegal, or given advice on what to do when they see trucks from companies dumping waste in their areas. The experience in informal settlements is a cause for concern, because littering, unmanaged waste and sewerage, and irregular services, all cause land pollution. This is due to a lack of environmental awareness in these communities.

Another problem that confronts local authorities is the fact that people create informal settlements in areas or places that were previously used for dumping. Illegal dumping is often associated with those who are involved in construction, demolition, remodelling, roofing or waste management companies. Illegal dumps usually attract more waste, including hazardous waste such as asbestos. This calls for local authorities to put in place ordinances that will prevent this from occurring. They should also make sure that such ordinances are enforced by law-enforcement agencies in co-operation with communities and NGOs. In this regard, the involvement of the development forums is essential.

Communities that are usually affected by illegal dumping are in areas with limited access to convenient and affordable waste disposal facilities or services and recycling programmes. The other compounding factor, in dealing with illegal dumping in areas of the poor, is the fact that it is not regarded as a serious crime, because most of the time law-enforcement agencies in these areas have to focus on a high rate of gang or related activities and other serious crimes, such as murder and rape. All levels of law enforcement, including prosecutors, give low priority to illegal dumping. In rural areas it is even worse.

In order to deal with this problem of the illegal dumping of waste, we need co-operation amongst stakeholders, communities, and local authorities, including the industries which most of the time are guilty of this. Local politicians, local councillors, members of provincial legislatures or members of Parliament who are deployed by their parties in these areas, must make prevention programmes a priority and assist in organising adequate funding, access to equipment, and make sure that labour resources are available to these areas of the poor.

RDP forums, because of their nature as nonpolitical forums that are responsible for development in these areas, must play a central role and initiate programmes that will prevent illegal dumping. The youth, who are affected by the high rate of unemployment, must be mobilised to participate in clean-up campaigns and policing of their areas against illegal dumping. The youth can also be involved in site maintenance and control of sites that were previously used as dumping sites. This, together with community outreach programmes, can go a long way in making sure that illegal dumping is prevented. [Applause.]

Ms R A NDZANGA: Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon members and hon members of the public who are observing the proceedings of this House from the gallery, firstly, I would like to thank the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism for taking us through this Budget Vote. I also want to thank the chairperson of the portfolio committee, Ms Mahlangu, and the rest of the committee members for their support and guidance as we deal with matters concerning this department as discharged to us by this House. We, in the ANC, support this Budget Vote.

We have taken time to explore and interrogate, among ourselves, as to whether this department, including resources deployed to it, is used according to the mandate and the needs of our people. The answer to this has been yes. The department is doing something regarding some of the challenges facing just about all sectors of governance and economy in our country today. As the ANC, we come out in support of this Budget Vote informed by a number of issues which, to our belief and understanding, are the demands of the people at grass-roots level.

Allow me to deal with one of these issues that we thought proper to share with members, so that they can understand how we came to support this Budget Vote. An area where we, as South Africans, can improve on a lot, concerns energy generation and, down the line, the responsible use of electricity and energy in other forms. Our energy generation relies on coal which, we all know, is a nonrenewable resource. There will come a point in time where the coal shall not be available any more, thus forcing us to use other means to generate energy. As humans of today, aided by technology to a degree, we can predict and plan with greater accuracy about what the future might bring us. Studies have recently revealed that our sources of energy may not cope with demands eight years from now, but our responsible Government knows that alternative sources have to be sought.

Eskom, a major player in the field of energy supply, has been undertaking some research on alternative sources of energy. This function largely rests with the Ministry of Minerals and Energy. But, as this department, we are working closely with them in ensuring that whatever sources are explored, we can, to a certain extent, have some influence in making sure that they are efficient.

The Pebble Bed Modular Reactor, which has sparked both fear and excitement amongst stakeholders, is one of many sources of energy that are currently being explored. The discussions, both in the media and public consultation forums, are duly noted and will be taken into account in making the right decisions.

Unlike the previous government, the ANC-led Government prides itself on consulting people in the true sense of the word, and making sure that their aspirations are incorporated into its programmes. [Applause.] We have the responsibility to govern and make sure that all South Africans, especially the rural women, are provided with electricity to ease their burden. In dealing with the issues of a future energy shortage, we will, however, not play into the hands of those who flood us with emotional arguments based on examples not relevant to South Africa. The issue of energy availability is of national importance, and all will be done to make sure that, as a country, we are not left in the dark.

We have undertaken to redress the past imbalances and have resolved to charge the process of strategically entering the global village without losing sight of our local challenges. The Kyoto Protocol, which was agreed to in 1997 after many years of negotiations, presents the first step in bringing about such a global change. This protocol places a primary responsibility on industrialised countries to reduce the emissions of greenhouse gases based on the fact that, historically, it is these countries that played the greatest role in creating problems concerning climatic changes. [Applause.]

Mr S N SWART: Chairperson I wish to commend the hon the Minister on his address earlier today. In so far as tourism is concerned, the hon the Minister previously indicated that the growth rate of tourism employment opportunities was assessed to be 29,4% during the year 2000, following a negative growth rate of 0,75% during 1999. This was followed the remarkably high growth rate during 1998 of 27,3%. It is estimated that the tourism economy created an additional 170 000 new employment opportunities during 2000 - this notwithstanding negative perceptions regarding South Africa in the foreign press.

I have recently returned from a study trip to Germany, where I learnt of a particularly damaging report on South Africa on a German Internet site. Although many German tourists visit South Africa, one can only speculate as to how many more would have visited us had there not been such negative reporting. I trust that the Circle of Sunshine initiative will address this negative perception.

This morning we received a comprehensive briefing concerning next year’s Johannesburg world summit alluded to by previous speakers. The ACDP trusts that a successful World Summit will not only showcase South Africa, but will also remove sentiments of Afropessimism.

I wish to join Christian, Muslim and Jewish religious leaders, representing hundreds of thousands of Capetonians in calling upon the authorities, particularly the Cape Unicity, to take urgent steps to control, clamp down on and disassociate itself from any form of sex trade in order to prevent the sexual exploitation of Cape Town’s poverty-stricken women and children by sex tourists. Sex tourism can never be the answer. I call on the Minister to adopt a very unwelcome campaign regarding these sex tourists.

In conclusion, the ACDP supports this Vote. [Applause.]

Mrs M M MALUMISE: Malibongwe! [Praise!]

HON MEMBERS: Igama lamakhosikazi! [The name of women!]

Mrs M M MALUMISE: Chairperson, allow me to thank this committee for recognising the important role of women in this sector by asking the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women to participate in these debates. Malibongwe! [Praise!] HON MEMBERS: Igama lamakhosikazi! [The name of women!]

Mrs M M MALUMISE: Igama lamakhosikazi! [The name of women!]

HON MEMBERS: Malibongwe! [Praise!]

Mrs M M MALUMISE: Boutros Boutros-Ghali said, and I quote:

Without progress in the development of women, there can be no true social development. Women’s rights are not worthy of the name if they exclude the female half of humanity. The struggle for women’s equality is part of the struggle for a better world for all human beings and all societies.

History has taught us that our freedom is only meaningful when there is one economy for the whole country. Today in South Africa we find two economies which consist of the wealthiest, who enjoy 80% of the resources, whilst the majority of South Africans still live in poverty and squalor because some people are rich. Therefore as women, we need to redirect our energies towards economic empowerment and liberation. [Applause.]

The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism must be congratulated on recognising the central role of women in many of their project-driven campaigns. Tourism, which is primarily a service and hospitality sector, holds many opportunities for meaningful involvement by women. Although much progress has been made, there is further room for even greater participation of women with the right kind of intervention. Historically, this sector has been dominated by our colleagues on my left. There have been many successful initiatives in which women made valuable contributions. Let me mention but a few.

The European Union funded the Wild Coast’s SDI projects, where women set up leatherworks, manufacturing, not only sandals but also curios, which are for sale to tourists. We should invite more tourists to visit South Africa. What is also encouraging is the development of other traditional forms of crafts and arts as well. Another area of expansion by women has been in the manufacturing and provision of corporate gifts, which are mostly sold to tourism establishments for giveaways.

Within the accommodation sector there has been a growth in women-run and managed establishments, in particular bed-and-breakfast establishments such as Topele Lekao, where the hon Ellis cannot go because this is mainly for the young ones. Tope means very young. There is Roundini in Berlin in the Eastern Cape, whose African restaurants specialise in African cuisine and African entertainment. There has been a fast-growing boom in the accommodation and restaurant sector for women’s enterprises such as Safika, Mama Afrika and so on.

But there are terrains where women are still seeking entry, like the upper end of the tourist echelon. In the Free State a women’s empowerment group project is under way and it aims to develop women-driven enterprises which will create platforms for women to market their products. Interestingly enough, the management and delivery of this project is largely in the hands of women as well, a factor which bodes well for women’s enterprises.

Recently, Indaba 2001, which showcases the South African tourism product offering, saw an increase in the number of black enterprises and the number of women running enterprises. But there is still scope for increasing black involvement, particularly in sectors such as conferencing, event management, tour operations, catering and transport. We have just heard from the hon the Minister himself, when he was deliberating here, that for the first time in our history, a large number of women have been directly issued with fishing permits. Have hon members ever heard of this happening in the past? [Applause.]

Whilst we encourage the promotion of cultural villages we must make every effort to ensure that these villages are not merely run by blacks, but are owned by blacks, the very people whose cultures are being showcased.

If we as women are to be successful, we need to be empowered through the necessary skills. There are many examples of how women’s groups have managed to make a significant impact with the help of proper support and skills development. [Interjections.] Those hon members should keep quiet.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, hon members! [Interjections.] Hon member, your time has expired.

Mrs M M MALUMISE: He has not said so yet. Chairperson, have you said so? [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Yes, hon member, your speaking time has expired. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson, Minister and hon members, tourism is South Africa’s third largest foreign exchange earner and job creator.

According to the South African Yearbook 2000/2001 some 740 000 jobs are created by the tourism economy and projections are that in 2010 the South African tourism economy will employ more than 1 million people.

Hotels, guest houses, bed-and-breakfast establishments and over 10 000 restaurants benefit from tourism. For the tourism industry to flourish, public safety and security have to be tightened. Despite the odd criminal acts, the world tourism organisation’s list of the 40 most popular tourism destinations rank South Africa as 21st in popularity. Some 6 million foreigners visit South Africa each year.

With all the revenue thus collected, many people in the rural areas lose out, even though they make fine artefacts to sell to tourists. Our people lack training in costing and marketing their articles. They tend to give them away for almost nothing. Aliens glut the major tourism intersections such as those at the Hartebeespoort Dam, along the Dr William Nicol Road in Bryanston and some major flea markets in the city of Johannesburg.

The beauty of the South African scenery is appreciated when one travels by rail. Unfortunately the average South African cannot afford the exorbitant fares on the Blue Train, yet the beauty of this country, the gorges and tunnels, the wildlife frolicking in the countryside here and there, and the big five is a must for all to behold. The new transfrontier game parks make Southern Africa a place to come to for relaxation.

We are thankful that the department has done so much for tourism. Trained tourist guides are being registered with the department, so that tourists are not taken for a ride. We congratulate the Minister on the recognition he receives from his colleagues for a job well done.

The UCDP supports the Vote.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, could you please lower your voices? The level of noise is too high.

Mr J D ARENDSE: Chairperson, Minister, tourism has these days become synonymous with job creation, and so I would like to speak about one area that I think deserves much more attention in relation to job creation than it currently enjoys.

The flora of South Africa is by far the richest of any region of comparable size. Here in the southern part of Africa, about 10% of the flora of the world occurs on less than 2% of the world’s surface area.

Indeed, with about 24 000 species recorded for South Africa and some of its neighbours, the country is home to the most diverse and species-rich temperate flora of the world. South Africa boasts, among other things, about 4 700 succulent plant species, which represent almost half of the known succulents of the world, a rich tree abundance of about 1 000 species, nearly 800 grass species, many of which are important pasture grasses, over 2 000 bulb species and some 500 species of orchids. On a somewhat larger scale, South Africa is host to two of the six floristic kingdoms of the world, namely the Cape Floristic Kingdom and the Paleotropical Floristic Kingdom. The Cape Floristic Kingdom is the smallest of the six in the world and is world renowned for its many fynbos species which are restricted to a very small L-shaped area stretching over 250 km from Vanrhynsdorp in the western part of the Western Cape in a southerly direction towards Cape Town, and then for about 800 km in an easterly direction towards Grahamstown in a broken belt 40 km to 150 km wide.

It encompasses an area of some 90 000 km², which is less than 4% of the area of the southern African subcontinent, but contains almost 44% of the species of flowering plants known on the subcontinent. Here about 9 000 plant species occur on mostly nutrient-poor soil at a density of about 1 300 species per 10 000 km².

What is even more significant is that the vast majority, more than 70% of these species, are found nowhere else on earth. They are restricted to this area with a Mediterranean climate of hot summers and wet, mild winters. Significantly the Cape Peninsula alone boasts 2 600 of the flowering plant species, which is more than the total number of species found on the British Isles.

Almost all of the features of the Cape region are unusual in a global context. The Cape floral region is characterised by a highly unusual composition of flowering plants. The flora is dominated by the iris, erica, protea and restia families. Nowhere else in the world do these families assume dominance in any regional flora, except in parts of Australia, where the proteas and restias are also well represented.

The Cape region is economically extremely important in several aspects. The rooibos tea industry is probably the most important earner of foreign revenue. The Cape region is also the source of many valuable horticultural products. These include several bulbs, ie freesias, chincherinchees and gladioli. Most of the development of these plants has been done in Europe and they form an important component of the foreign cut-flower trade.

Locally the cut-flower industry is based on wild forms and on locally developed cultivars of proteas. Another valuable local product is buchu, which is cultivated for its essential oils used in the flavour and fragrance industries. Furthermore, the ecotourism value of the spring wild flowers on the West Coast is of considerable importance as a generator of foreign income.

The botanical riches of the country are not restricted to the Cape coastal strip. To the east and north, the Cape Floristic Kingdom is flanked by the Great Karoo, a vast stretch of climatically severe flat country, rich in succulents and stunted Karoobossies, and to the east one encounters the tropical lushness of the KwaZulu-Natal coast and adjacent parts.

The eastern region of South Africa represents one of the richest floral regions in Africa. An incredible diversity of plants grow in just over 5% of the country’s land. Diversity is also expressed in the richness of vegetation types, which includes subtropical swamp forests at sea level and mountain flora at altitudes of 3 300 m.

Spectacular gorges, rolling grasslands and forest patches are typical of the east coast. Over 10 000 species and 1 300 genera representing 70% of genera in southern Africa, inhabit this region. In South Africa small can be big, and this certainly applies to the flora. For example, the mosses and their relatives are important components of most ecosystems and contributes significantly to the diversity of life. In our mountain catchment areas, for example, where mosses are most abundant and diverse, they intercept, retain and slowly release large volumes of water into streams, protecting the soil from erosion and decreasing the loss of water through evaporation. In this way mosses act as sponges and help to keep our dams full and our streams and rivers, on which many communities depend for their daily supply of water, perennial.

The arid western parts of South Africa are host to the only internationally recognised hot spot in the world. A hot spot is an area of high species diversity that are threatened in one way or another. South Africa’s so- called succulent Karoo biome is immensely rich in succulent species that have evolved various mechanisms to overcome the periodic and predictable droughts that ravage this sometimes inhospitable botanical wonderland.

This diversity is illustrated by the fact that the vygie family, the largest succulent plant family in the world, is exceptionally diversified in, and largely restricted to, the western parts of South Africa. An astonishing 23% of the daisies of South Africa occur in the Calvinia area. Over the past few centuries many of the plant species of South Africa have entered the world horticultural and floricultural markets, and today our plants are grown all over the world.

An example is the pelargonium, which is often somewhat erroneously referred to as geraniums, which grows all over Europe as window box plants. All of them derive from stock obtained from South Africa. Our flora is not only extremely rich in terms of numbers of species, it also offers a remarkable range of diverse and useful growth forms within a context of unique landscapes of great beauty … [Time expired.]

Dr M S MOGOBA: Chairperson, in the ugly days of gloom when the dark clouds of violence and death covered our land, the children of our land sang a song:

South Africa, our beautiful land We will tell the whole world We can bring peace to our land. We did get some peace - although we could have done with more - and our country is still beautiful.

The beauty of our land shines like a pearl between the two oceans. When we host the Earth Summit next year, we shall be learning again and again that we should become good stewards of God’s creation. We are created not to have dominion over the entire creation, but to be good stewards of it. We have seen enough of the human propensity for destruction and complete blindness to the needs of others, particularly generations to come.

The Earth Summit is a very important congress, and we are providentially hosting it. The whole nation should be part of the congress and should participate and learn directly from it. Our beautiful country is ideally suited for tourism. Tourism is the number one earner of foreign exchange, although our country only gets 1% so far. There is much scope for development and beneficiation.

Bank owners, who are mostly or mainly white, are the real and ultimate owners of tourism in this country. This alienates the poor and the undeveloped. The black Africans, by and large, get only crumbs from the cake of tourism. They do not yet participate fully in tourism in this country, in Africa and in the world.

They are not beneficiaries of the commercial side of tourism. We have a duty to promote tourism and in a very pragmatic, aggressive and deliberate way to train, equip and support African tourists. If we do not do that, the end result will boomerang on us. World tourists who are coming in droves to our country will be the first to realise that the majority of the people of this land are only spectators - the real players are those who had been at it from time immemorial.

We have to educate the previously disadvantaged about the value of taking a holiday and going out to enjoy the beauty of this land. We have to train our people to gain a foothold in this fast growing sector of our economy. We have to take tourism from the N1, N2, N3 and N4 freeways, to the people. After all, most of the overseas tourists, although they are mostly obsessed with our wildlife, can benefit by seeing and knowing about the lives of the people in the rural areas of our land.

We should develop the so-called township tourism, as well as village tourism. Most of our rural areas have an exceptional and unique beauty which we can share with our tourists, at a small fee, of course. Scenic beauty plus people development equals prosperity and peace.

Mr M I MOSS: Chairperson, Minister and hon members, I am sitting here because I am different from the others, but in the same vein I would also like to say that marine and coastal management, which is also known as the fishing industry, is also different from last year. There is progress. [Applause.] I would like to, first and foremost, emphasise and echo the view of Minister Valli Moosa that marine and coastal management has made satisfactory progress, and is on track.

A year ago the Minister announced that marine and coastal management would in future be headed by a deputy director-general, Mr Horst Kleinschmidt, and predicted good things. The fruits in this regard are clear and visible. This is good news indeed.

Since the democratically elected Government came into power in 1994, the ANC committed itself to give priority to transforming the fishing industry and introducing new players into the industry. There were a few successes with the introduction of new entrants, but new problems emerged which are now being addressed. Transformation has been slow, with very little success.

The difficult and crisis times that marine and coastal management found itself in was a headache to all stakeholders and role-players. The department was dragged into many court cases, which affected the whole industry negatively. This resulted in fishing vessels not being able to go to sea. Senior officials of the department were held hostage and there were widespread accusations of corruption inside the department and in the industry in general. These rumours and accusations still persist, but to a lesser extent.

Research done on the dangers of different types of working conditions have proved that the fishing industry is the most dangerous, yet many fishermen are not covered by the Labour Relations Act. Many employers are known to want to keep it that way, to ensure that they can exploit workers to the maximum by giving them low wages and no benefits such as insurance, a pension fund and other benefits. Subsistence right allocations were introduced as a pilot programme to benefit the poorest and the unemployed. It started off very well, and many jobs were created. Poverty was relieved for many families in the fishing villages. Unfortunately there were also many problems. Some subsistence fishers are exploited and get very low prices for their daily catch. They should get the best possible prices and be free to sell the fish to the highest possible bidder. Realistic market prices should be the basis for such sales. A kind of co-operative and storing facilities should be looked at. This should be available for subsistence fishers.

Small, medium and macro enterprises are also a very important sector in the industry. The SMMEs will have to be successful as they are crucial players in the industry. The objectives of the Marine Living Resources Act is precisely to look at the spread of the resource and at the same time broaden the participation of and accommodate SMMEs, as well as previously disadvantaged individuals and companies. The Government has a major role to play to ensure the aforementioned. Many departments, for example, the Departments of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, and Trade and Industry, as well as other institutions and big business need to provide support. Sufficient access to credit and adhering to sound business principles are very important in this regard. We cannot allow the SMMEs to go insolvent or be squeezed out of the market.

Transformation in the fishing industry should be centred around changes in the ownership of companies and real change in top management positions of established companies. The Marine Living Resources Act also provides clear guidelines for industrial and company transformation. Regular surveys and analysis need to be in place to evaluate transformation, if any, and to what extent transformation has taken place.

Companies who do not meet the requirements for transformation as prescribed by the Act should be named and shamed. Resistance to genuine transformation should coincide with big cuts in quota allocations, even if it means they will have to quit the industry.

Relations with foreign countries, in as far as fishing rights in our waters are concerned, need to be looked at and protected with jealousy. We cannot allow the EU access to our waters while many of our own people do not have access. [Applause.] The reduction of permits to the many Taiwanese vessels to enable broader participation of local fishermen also needs attention. Since fishing is a labour-intensive industry, local participation of fishermen will ensure maximum local jobs.

In conclusion, after much deliberation, consultation and interaction in various ways, two discussion papers were introduced. These documents were workshopped and discussed with all role-players. The first document resulted in the moratorium on the allocation of fishing rights, which contributed a lot to ensure growth, confidence and hope for the future.

The documents also looked at long-term rights, which can be between 3 to 15 years, depending on the sector. An independent allocation unit will be in place and the department’s offices will not work with applications anymore. Compliance will take place with bigger participation of local coastal communities. Poverty relief was the reason why many of our people cleaned up the coastline near their villages. The ANC supports this Vote. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms J A SEMPLE: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister, colleagues, job creation is the key element behind Government’s active promotion of tourism, and it is envisaged that the tourism sector is likely to overtake mining, agriculture and manufacturing in sustaining South Africa’s economic development.

Peter Bacon, Managing Director of Sun International Southern Africa, believes that tourism, the world’s largest industry, has the potential in Southern Africa to grow at more than 5% and could by the year 2010 provide one out of every 10 jobs in the economy.

Business tourism in particular contributes more than R20 billion to South Africa’s gross domestic product every year, and is the fastest-growing segment of the tourism market. Johannesburg has won the bid to host the Johannesburg World Summit - also referred to as the Earth Summit or RioPlus Ten - to be held in September 2002. The event will be even bigger than the Rugby World Cup, and will make a substantial contribution to the economy, with approximately 65 000 people expected to attend the summit. This includes 2 500 media personnel sending an image of South Africa all over the world. Grant Thornton Kessel Feinstein estimate that the average conference delegate in South Africa spends more than R1 000 a day. Their research shows that 11 million people attended conferences, exhibitions and related business events last year, sustaining nearly 250 000 jobs and making up 27% of the country’s GDP. Our exchange rate provides outstanding value for money and the cherry on top is that almost half of all international delegates add a tour onto their trips, thus spreading the economic spin-off around the country.

After the democratic elections in 1994, South Africa experienced a boom in tourism with an average growth rate of 5% in foreign arrivals. However, the last two years have shown the figures peaking and remaining fairly static. This country has so much to offer at such reasonable prices, yet our share of the world tourism market is a pathetic 5,6%, a mere drop in the ocean.

A group of visiting American travel operators recently blamed this drop on perceptions about the country. And before the ruling party scream foul or rather ``sies’’ at the mention of crime, other perceptions were also mentioned, such as health and particularly HIV/Aids, instability within the Government with reference to phantom plots, land grabs in Zimbabwe and Afropessimism.

It has been pointed out that South Africa, in terms of attractions, should be beating Australia hands-down in the tourism field - too bad about rugby. South African tourism can paint hundreds of London taxis with the South African flag, and Cheryl Carolus can host a multitude of goodwill concerts and braais, but unless the above-mentioned perceptions are reversed, our tourism figures will not rise, jobs will not be created and the contribution to GDP will diminish.

What we need is national leaders, from the President down, to loudly and publicly lay those perceptions to rest with a tangible plan of action. The Luxor example in Egypt is often quoted. After a terrorist attack on tourists there, plans were announced to deal with the immediate problem and the root causes.

If our tourism industry is going to grow, we need similar plans to tackle crime, HIV/Aids, Afropessimism and other damaging perceptions. These need to be voiced by the President in no uncertain terms and followed up by Cabinet Ministers and, indeed, all South Africans. They must be publicised around the world for potential tourists to hear about, and those tourists must know that we are serious about implementing them. If this is not done, our infant tourism industry and the much-hoped-for job creation potential will be stillborn.

I would like to end by paying tribute to our chairperson, who leads and guides the portfolio committee with enthusiasm, vitality and wisdom. [Applause.]

Mrs J CHALMERS: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister, members of the House, that great thinker, Albert Einstein, once said:

The world we live in today has problems which cannot be solved by thinking the way we thought when we created them.

The views he expressed are manifestly clear as we look around the world we live in. Look up and the chances are we will see some aspects of pollution; look down and we may well view some aspect of land degradation; and look to the left or right - whether we are in town, on the seashore, in the forests or out in the veld - and we will see a world very different from the one presenting to our forebears.

This has always been the case to a degree, the difference now is the extraordinary rate at which our world is being affected by the way we, humankind, live out our lives. At the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, little thought was given to the devastating effects coal mining would have on the atmosphere. The early inventors of what became the paper industry could not anticipate its effects on the forests of this world.

Animal and plant species are disappearing from the face of the earth at an unprecedented rate. It has been estimated that 100 to 300 species vanish annually. Botanists reckon that up to one third of our plant species could be at risk. Zoologists predict that perhaps a quarter to half of all animal species could vanish in he next century.

In South Africa alone up to 400 million tons of topsoil are washed away every year into rivers, dams and the sea - soil that could and should be put to productive use. These are resources that are vital to human, economic and social development. They make up the very air we breathe, the water we drink and the food that we eat.

It has been said that we are playing roulette with the earth’s living systems, condemning species to extinction and threatening our own survival. Einstein was right on track when he said that we needed a whole new mindset in dealing with these fundamental threats to the world’s ecosystems.

A new report, released a few weeks ago by the World Resources Institute, warns that if the planet’s coastal zone continues to be extensively modified or destroyed, its capacity to provide fish, protect homes and businesses, reduce pollution and erosion, and sustain biological diversity will be gravely endangered. I am not speaking about some distant future when the world’s and our coastlines will be at risk. I am talking about the here and the now. Coastal human populations are exploding and, as they increase, pressures on coastal ecosystems build up. Of that there is no doubt.

It has been estimated that four out of every 10 people, globally, live within 100 kilometres of a coast, yet nearly two thirds of all fish harvested in the world depend on coastal wetlands, mangroves, seagrass beds and coral reefs. Ninety-five percent of the world’s marine fish harvest comes from coastal waters, but overall, 75% of those fish stocks are depleted or being fished at their biological limit.

My colleagues have spoken on the fishing issue. I make mention of this precious species in the context of the fact that they are a vital, but highly threatened, part of biodiversity and of the global food chain. I wonder if our children’s children will get the chance to taste kingklip or galjoen, or some of our other offshore species. Even now I hear from fishing friends that the river mouth and rock species such as elf, leervis, cob and even tiger, so plentiful even 20 years ago, are seldom caught any more on their weekend fishing excursions. To them it is sport, but for the subsistence fisherman this is a critical issue, putting their very livelihoods at risk.

This is a global crisis not confined to South African coasts and one of which our Minister - as outlined in his speech today - and our Government is critically aware. Steps are being taken and put in place to manage and regulate coastal development - which, for decades, indeed, centuries grew in a haphazard and ad hoc fashion - in such a way so as to minimise environmental damage along our shores. There has been a fundamental shift in thinking about our coast and its resources that has ushered in a new era of coastal management.

Coastal ecosystems are particularly complex and sensitive to change, and degradation can rapidly undermine the benefits of development. The new policy is rooted in the understanding that our coast is a national asset, a fundamental part of the biodiversity picture belonging to all the people of South Africa. This policy recognises that our coast is a place of value, opportunity and potential. It means working in a dedicated and creative way with communities along the entire length of our coastline. We need also to ensure that industrial development along our coastline takes very seriously the requirements of the National Environmental Management Act. Let us not be beguiled and lured by the prospect of short-term job creation and lose sight of the damage that such myopic vision can do to truly sustainable long-term development, with secure long-term job opportunities.

Lastly, South Africa is a signed-up member of the Convention on Biological Diversity, a convention that became a reality as a result of global recognition that our environment was in a state of crisis. Now, the challenge is to convert its vision into concrete action and programmes on the ground, and not only on the ground.

South Africa, in the past year, has been a motivating force with other states to put in place an agreement to protect that marvellous bird, the wandering albatross, and others of its species from being totally decimated by long-line fishing. I am sad to say, of the 24 species of albatross, 21 have critically shrinking populations. The good news is that some of the major fishing nations are now signing up to attempt to reverse this situation, and one would hope that the two other major long-line fishing nations, Japan and Korea, will also come on board and take action to preserve and protect these wonderful birds.

Back to earth, it is great to hear of newly formed municipal structures becoming advised, informed and guided on how to manage their urban environment in order to minimise the environmental damage caused by too rapid and ill-planned development. One of my colleagues has been talking about the mandate of Local Agenda 21, which is being taken up in a very exciting way by local authorities as they make firm commitments to improve and extend service delivery in a sustainable way.

We should also make commitments to protecting green lungs and open spaces in our cities, and take seriously the need to educate and bring on board our urban and peri-urban communities. We have to realise and accept that whilst we can, and in many instances have, put in place the best thought- out legislation and regulations in the world, it is only by the broader community becoming involved in management and protection of our natural resources that they will still be there for the next and future generations. [Applause.]

Mrs M E OLCKERS: Mr Chairperson, I would like to support the Minister and the department in their effort, as well as the finance they are investing, to promote tourism in South Africa.

The New NP would also like to congratulate Sisa, Sun International of South Africa, under the able leadership of Mr Peter Bacon, for winning five of the 14 world travel awards at the ceremony recently held in Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia. It was the eighth annual World Travel Award ceremony and competitors are voted for by travel agents worldwide. These include facilities like conference centres, casino resorts, airlines and airports, hotel groups, boutiques, conservation companies, game reserves and luxury trains.

Mr Bacon believes that tourism, as the world’s largest industry, has the potential in South Africa to grow at more than 5% and could by the year 2010 provide one out of every 10 jobs in the economy. This is a practical example of a public-private partnership that our country needs. The clear message from Mr Bacon is that Government can only perform an enabling and facilitating role, creating the investment environment and conditions for social stability and that it is up to the industry to stimulate the markets, develop the infrastructure and create tourism-friendly conditions which are so vital if South Africa is to become globally competitive in its quest for the tourism dollar. But the Government should accept its responsibility to create a safe and crime-free environment for tourists. This is the positive attitude that South Africa needs from the giants of tourism and the hospitality industry. The New NP congratulates Sisa on this magnificent achievement and encourages other financial giants to follow Mr Bacon’s positive and clear vision for tourism and the hospitality industry in South Africa. I would also like to acknowledge and wish marine and coastal management well with all the many difficult issues they are addressing in this industry. Mr Horst Kleinschmidt especially needs to be mentioned for the huge part he is playing in an effort to clean up and regularise the industry.

We especially welcome the expansion of Operation Neptune so as to break the back of the mafia that are plundering our fishing and marine resources so badly by their poaching. The effort to involve the SA Airforce to undertake maritime patrols and coastal surveillance operations are welcomed. The money spent on these operations will be money well spent. We wish them well in their efforts and in managing the money allocated to the eradication of this huge problem of poaching. I thank the chairlady for her leadership of this committee. [Applause.]

Ms C M P RAMOTSAMAI: Chairperson, South African tourism has increased substantially during the past seven years. Today it brings over R20 billion into our economy annually and is second to manufacturing and mining in its contribution to the GDP. This results from the fact that our Government has focused on two broad areas, that is, foreign and domestic tourism. The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has, indeed, improved in a number of areas as mentioned by the President in his opening address earlier this year, and has created new black-owned tourism enterprises and it is still going strong.

Last year during the budget debate on Environmental Affairs and Tourism the hon member Mbuyazi and I sharply criticised the unrepresentativeness of the Indaba 2000. The portfolio committee was in agreement that the situation could not be tolerated anymore. Following on other members who spoke before me, I want to congratulate the Minister … [Applause] … and the department for a job well done in the Indaba 2001.

This year’s Indaba was also held in Durban in April. We saw a great improvement. To me, this is a clear indication that indeed, members of Parliament are taken seriously by the department. We in the portfolio committee who attended the Indaba 2001 had a special mandate, and that was to look closely at the participation of SMMEs. Last year only 34 SMMEs participated in the Indaba and this year 150 participated … [Applause] … an increase of about 400%. We have to congratulate the department on this achievement.

As we moved around the exhibition centre, province by province, stall by stall, talking to exhibitors, there was excitement and smiles from SMME participants, who felt that it was a great opportunity that they had been given by the Government to participate in the Indaba. What we also discovered is that some of them were not newcomers to this field, but they had not been given an opportunity before. Some of them had a 20 years experience, but they had never been exposed or given an opportunity to exhibit and talk about their own products to international tourist organisations. We also noticed that the quality of their products was very high and competitive. The department went out of its way to make this year’s Indaba a great success, for the benefit of the millions of South Africans who had been deprived of the opportunity to participate in the tourism sector by the previous regime.

Earlier a group of tour operators who were here - they have just left - and the tour guides from the black townships of Cape Town, made representations at the portfolio committee. During these representations we learnt that some of them are former school principals who, when a call was made by the Government to black people to enter into the mainstream of the economy after the democratic elections, responded by investing their savings and packages in tourism. They went through training and acquired skills to empower themselves in this field, and bought Kombis in order to participate in the tourism field.

They expressed their frustration at the meeting and difficulties in making headway in this field. Some of them have resorted to ferrying children to and from school in order to make a living, because tourism is still in white hands and is discriminatory. Tourists come to this country already booked with established tour operators. The only time that these emerging tour operators get into contact with international tourists is when these companies are not interested in a particular route, and perhaps make an offer to them, which means that they get crumbs and not the real thing. Today I am happy to say that they are here to say thank you to the Government of the ANC. We are very proud of the ANC Government for creating an opportunity for them to participate in the tourism industry.

Some of them are seated in the gallery and others have left, perhaps they will be joining us later. They are here to support the budget and to say viva 2001 Indaba! [Applause.] A progressive step in changing the face of the tourism industry with a wide range of participation of SMMEs and exhibitions was demonstrated. In this case, I want to acknowledge the good work done by the department, in particular Mr Moeketse Mosula, who went out of his way to accommodate all these SMMEs groups and to make sure that they participated and were partners in that field. [Applause.] The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, together with their counterparts in the provinces, shares the responsibilities to subsidise SMMEs in order that they could to exhibit their products at the Indaba.

However, we still have a long way to go to eliminate the disparities caused by our painful past, apartheid, to make a better life for all the people. I want to bring to the attention of the Minister and the department a concern that was raised by some of the SMMEs exhibitors regarding the fact that they lacked technological resources. The long-established tourism businesses had prearranged appointments with international businesses, and this they do because they have access to the Internet. And I think that perhaps as a department we can actually try, through working with the provincial departments, to provide a central point where the SMMEs can access information where they can also make appointments, because at the Indaba they just wait for people to come. The established businesses go to them with prearranged appointments. When we looked at this, we thought that the department could begin to move a step forward and provide them with that kind of resource in each province.

The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, together with SA Tourism, formerly Satour, has embarked on a programme to competitively market South Africa internationally as a preferred destination for sustainable economic and social empowerment of all South Africans, and to make tourism the leading economic sector in South Africa. One of the ways they are doing this is through the initiative of the Circle of Sunshine. This is an international network of friends, business colleagues and associates who could be both tourists to South Africa and also key influencers in shifting perception about South Africa, and encouraging friends and people to visit South Africa. This is to talk good about South Africa and not present it as a violent country that people should not visit. They actually send out a good message about this country. This network has been launched in London and in other countries, and I know that dates have been set for this to be launched in other countries as well during 2001.

The increase of the budget from 5% to 10% for South Africa to be promoted in Africa is actually welcomed, but I find that it still falls short of what we are actually spending in the UK and the USA, and we are actually increasing the budget by 50%. If we want to make the African Renaissance a reality, we have to spend more money on promoting South Africa in Africa. [Applause.]

Coming to domestic tourism, for the first time in the history of the South African Parliament, Minister Valli Moosa took a radical action to transform the tourism industry by hosting a parliamentary committee meeting, where a report and review of the department’s plan for 2001-2002 took place at the Thuthuka Cafe in Gugulethu. This is in line with the strong push to ensure that black South Africans enjoy a stake in tourism’s economic growth sector.

The Government’s plan to develop tourism infrastructure and the allocation of R175 million to a poverty relief project in this financial year, will be aligned to the Government strategy on rural development, and this will make tourism a reality to the poor people. We can only be satisfied as this Parliament, if we see change in peoples’ lives, and that should be a visible change, and not in terms of figures. Government has a responsibility to put into operation mechanisms that will be biased towards those historically disadvantaged communities benefiting from this.

Lastly, I just want to mention that, like the Hector Peterson Memorial, the department will actually be launching a second phase of the memorial square. I want to mention that the community of Langa, a well-known black township in Cape Town, and tour operators from the township have expressed a need for a building in Langa, which is now dilapidated, to be restored.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

Ms C M P RAMOTSAMAI: Chairperson, that building needs to be restored. It was used by the racist apartheid government as a court for pass laws until the 80s. We all know that this is actually … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AND TOURISM: Mr Chairperson, I am trying to find some points on which I can attack the opposition, as I am expected to do to earn my keep. [Laughter.]

But while I am thinking about them, let me just say that mention was made of the ambitious plans that we have to increase the territory under nature conservation and protection, from 6% of the surface area of the country to about 8%, in about a decade or so. Bearing in mind that the IUCN (The World Conservation Union) is of the view that the ideal situation is 10%, we do not think that we can reach 10% in ten year’s time, but we could target 8%. And, as has been correctly said, this is an enormous amount of land which could cost a lot of money if all of it is going to be bought at market value and inflated prices, and such things. The acquisition of this land to place under protection is a matter which would have to be approached in a rather complex manner.

The first point to make is that at present one has large tracts of land which are defined as state forests. That is already in the state’s hands, much of which is administered either by the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry or by various provincial authorities. One also has land which falls under the Department of Public Works, and hon members would know that this department is in the process of doing an audit and that the Government is in the process of doing a review of land use as far as that is concerned.

Then,of course, not all land under protection necessarily has to be public land. Private land can also fall under protection. Take, for example, the whole range of private reserves that we have that are contiguous with the Kruger National Park. These have, essentially, been incorporated into the Kruger National Park, although they belong to private people. Sabie Sands, for example, would be one such case. So there is a whole range of matters.

The point about the R8 million that we have in the budget this year for land acquisition, is that it is a very novel idea. It is the first time that we actually have money on the budget to purchase land to incorporate into a park. And if one looks at the medium-term expenditure framework one would see that this increases quite substantially over the next three years. It doubles and trebles and goes up to about R35 million over the years to come. So it is not just a one-year programme.

The Peace Parks Foundation is of the view that there is untapped international potential for land acquisition. One must understand that there is tremendous international support for some of the work we are doing.

The hon chairperson once again reminded us about the terrible situation as far as Thor Chemicals is concerned and about the mercury problem that is experienced there. The department has instructed the company, in terms of the National Environmental Management Act, to clear up the site and to dispose of the spent mercury catalyst. We as the department have also pointed senior counsel in Durban to pursue the case against Thor, as well as against the present company, as hon members know that ownership has been changing. The present company is Conica Chemicals - an interesting name. We will require of them to clean up.

There is no doubt, when one takes their track record into account, that this is a matter that is going to end up in court. I would like to assure the House that this is something that we will pursue relentlessly in one way or another. At the end of the day, if we need to do the clearing up ourselves as Government, we will do it. But we will pursue the principle of polluter pays. We cannot leave this matter like that.

On the question of the Macassar disaster, some work has been done regarding this matter. But let me again assure the House and the chairperson that we will look into this matter once again and give hon members a detailed report-back.

The hon Mbuyazi raised the question of access for disabled tourists and their participation in this industry. What I can report today is that we recently appointed a new national grading council. We now have a completely new system and standard for grading hotels and other establishments. Hon members will remember that one, two and three star grades are awarded. Importantly, the grading will be taking into account the disabled- friendliness of an establishment and this will be reflected in the grading itself. We are of the opinion that we should do this not only because our democratic Constitution requires that and places an obligation on us, but we should also do this because it is good for tourism business. Disabled persons around the world are a very important tourism market. They want to visit countries that are disabled-friendly, because in some parts of the world disabled people are just treated like a nuisance. South Africa is becoming a place which the disabled community globally is beginning to look.

Recently I had the honour of going to the M C Kharbai School for the Deaf in Lenasia, which in a way is my hometown. They invited me because they were launching matric subjects for deaf children in travel and tourism. I thought that this was a wonderful thing, because when one gets visitors who are deaf, these young people who are in training now will be in the best position to make them feel at home. They will act as tour guides, sign language interpreters and so on.

As far as the Coega development is concerned, I must assure everybody that up until now all procedures from an environmental point of view have been followed, and we will ensure that Government is committed to doing a proper environmental impact assessment, as the Minister of Trade and Industry himself said in this House. Development which is to happen, will happen in a manner which minimises negative impact on the environment.

The hon Lerumo Kalako in his speech mentioned a report which rated South Africa as a toxic hot spot in terms of the so-called dirty dozen of persistent organic pollutants. This was a report which appeared on the front page of The Star. I do not know which other newspaper had this report.

During the time when the very successful international negotiations on persistent organic pollutants were taking place in Johannesburg in December last year - and hon members may have seen the reports last week; the world community has now signed this protocol and South Africa is party to it - we were quite surprised when we saw this report. This report quoted a statement issued by the Worldwide Fund for Nature. The Department immediately contacted the WWF and asked them to give us this information, because we certainly did not know that South Africa was a toxic hot spot. The WWF apologised to us in writing for having misled the public and issued a public statement withdrawing that statement, which was completely misleading. I just wanted to say that if anybody does mention this, then we can all confidently say that as far as these toxic substances are concerned, South Africa is not a hot spot internationally.

I know that my time is up, but may I just say to the hon Ndzanga, who raised the question of the Pebble Bed Modula Reactor, that the Minister of Minerals and Energy - and I am not just saying that because she is here - and I, and our two departments, are working extremely closely on monitoring the progress as far as this matter is concerned by looking at the requirements for proper environmental scoping and impact assessment.

We have taken a full report to Cabinet, in the past week, on all of the processes that are taking place in respect of this matter. As soon as we complete our internal reporting, we will also inform the public about that because we think that it serves nobody’s interest to pursue the valuable research work in this field in a nontransparent way. We think that we can do this quite transparently, without any cost either to the project itself or anybody else.

Since my time has run out, may I take this opportunity to express my gratitude to all of those who participated in this debate. It is clear that a tremendous amount of preparation has gone into it and I can assure hon members that I and all the bigwigs from the department, who have been listening to the members, have taken careful note of all of the members’ comments. We will incorporate the suggestions into our work and business plan for this year.

We are, of course, as is customary - being Environmental Affairs and Tourism not entertainment and tourism - having entertainment and tourism this evening. [Laughter.] On behalf of the Chairperson and I, may I invite all hon members to our party, which takes place not far away from here. I do not know exactly where it is but the chairperson will give members the venue. I invite members to come along if they will be doing nothing. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I allowed the Minister an extra one and half minutes, which was on account of his giving you the invitation and I hope that you will endorse that.

Somebody has asked me whether the hon Momberg would like to declare the packages that he has or not. I think that they can refer to the hon Mr Momberg for that.

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 19:01. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                         MONDAY, 28 MAY 2001

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Sport and Recreation:

 Report of the Department of Sport and Recreation for 1999-2000.

                        TUESDAY, 29 MAY 2001

TABLINGS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces: Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 13 -
 Foreign Affairs for 1999-2000 [RP 122-2000].

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism on the South African Weather Service Bill [B 54B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 29 May 2001:

   The Portfolio Committee on Environmental Affairs and Tourism, having considered the South African Weather Service Bill [B 54B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75) and proposed amendments of the National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 516), referred to the Committee, reports the Bill with amendments [B 54C - 2000].

 Report to be considered.