TUESDAY, 12 JUNE 2001 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:02.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr D M GUMEDE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that - (a) President Mbeki launched the Beacon of Hope Project on Saturday night;

   (b)  this ANC Youth League project targets the best performing  Grade
       12 learners, especially from underprivileged backgrounds; and


   (c)  this project offers the hope  that  those  that  work  hard  and
       sacrifice will be rewarded for their successes; and

(2) wishes students well in their future endeavours and urges them to be patriotic and to plough their skills into the country upon completion of their studies.

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the DP … [Interjections.] [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Please proceed, hon member.

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House -

(1) welcomes Democratic Alliance Leader, Tony Leon, back to South Africa after his extremely successful visit to the United Kingdom where he made impassioned pleas for foreign direct investment which could lead to economic development and more jobs for our people; and

(2) expresses the hope that President Mbeki’s visit to the UK with 80 businessmen will carry the process further and will enhance South Africa’s prospects of attracting investment.

[Applause.]

Mr J H SLABBERT: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) is concerned about the state of window visibility in South African vehicles which causes reckless driving as it impairs visibility in respect of other vehicles, pedestrians and animals;

(2) is further concerned that seemingly there is no proper law enforcement in respect of the overtinting of vehicle windows; and

(3) calls upon the Department of Transport to look seriously into this matter to curb the rate of accidents on our roads and criminal activity bred behind such tinted windows, resulting in the unavailability of identikits when criminals have to be apprehended.

Ms H F MALEBANA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the controversy-prone DA in Cape Town, under misguided mayor Peter Marais, has exposed its aversion to participatory democracy by -

   (a)  not consulting people on changing street names;


   (b)  not acting decisively on the alleged signature fraud in  support
       of the changes; and


   (c)  exposing  the  public  process  as  a  farce  since  the  city's
       departments regard it as a fait accompli, having started to  use
       the proposed new names in official documents; and

(2) calls on -

   (a)  the police and the  Public  Protector  to  launch  an  immediate
       transparent investigation into the allegations of fraud  in  the
       process; and


   (b)  Mr Marais to drop his ill-conceived plans.

[Applause.]

Adv A H GAUM: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes with great distress the comments of Dr Ike Nzo that ``criminals are going to cost the country much more than apartheid did’’;

(2) further notes that Dr Nzo’s response to the devastating impact of violent crime on South African society and his own family has led him to plan to leave the country; and

(3) urges President Mbeki, Minister Tshwete and Minister Maduna to act decisively against crime and to fulfil their obligations to all South Africans by -

   (a)  recruiting, training and equipping  police,  and  improving  the
       administration of justice;


   (b)  getting tough against crime and criminals; and


   (c)  making South Africa a safe place to live.

Mr J T MASEKA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) notes the concern that the master’s office at the Pretoria High Court is battling to reduce a backlog of more than 32 000 inquiries about the administration of estates;

(2) further notes that the Auditor-General identified R70 million of unauthorised expenditure in the Department of Justice last year alone and that this department had the worst financial track record;

(3) acknowledges that this is a direct reflection on the ANC Government’s inability to deal with a vital part of our judiciary; and

(4) calls upon the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development urgently to curtail unauthorised expenditure and to implement constructive measures to combat the backlog of court cases and enquiries.

Dr E E JASSAT: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC: That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the editor of noseweek magazine has apologised for an  editorial
       described as ``a disgrace'' by  the  Western  Cape  Director  of
       Public Prosecutions; and


   (b)  as a result of his apology  Martin  Weltz  has  narrowly  missed
       criminal prosecution;

(2) believes that the media’s role is to inform the public in an unbiased, reliable, and accurate manner; and

(3) calls on all South Africans, not least opposition MPs, to resist the opportunistic temptation of giving credence to every rumour that tarnishes the legitimacy of our new democracy.

[Applause.]

Rev K R J MESHOE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ACDP:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the police have been warned  that  if  they  shoot  a  dangerous
       suspect in  the  back  they  will  face  charges  of  murder  or
       attempted murder, and will be liable for all legal costs;


   (b)  this warning came after the Supreme Court of Appeal  effectively
       changed the law by ruling that a policeman who shot  an  unarmed
       suspect had acted unlawfully; and


   (c)  this ruling came at a time when Dr Ike Ntsikelelo Nzo,  the  son
       of the late ANC leader, Alfred Nzo, is contemplating  emigrating
       or returning into exile because the criminals and crime in South
       Africa had dealt a huge blow to his patriotism;

(2) endorses his remark that life in the new South Africa is as dangerous as it was under the apartheid regime;

(3) accepts his belief that criminals will cost this country more than apartheid did, and that the dream of an African Renaissance is still a dream, because of what crime is doing to the economy and, as a result, causing skilled people to flee the country; and

(4) calls on the Government to -

   (a)  wake up from their sleep ...

[Time expired.]

Mr J P I BLANCHÉ: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) instructs the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security to meet with the Sebokeng psychiatrist, Dr Ike Ntsikelelo Nzo, to hear his reasons why he says that the violent crimes committed in South Africa has a worse effect on our nation than what apartheid had;

(2) requests the ANC-led Government to meet with Dr Nzo to exchange views on why he believes that neighbouring Botswana has the solutions to deal with criminals more effectively than ourselves;

(3) congratulates Dr Nzo for the stand he took over the weekend against crime; and

(4) requests the Government to take note of the hopes and dreams of law- abiding citizens who want to live and raise children in a crime-free South Africa.

Mr V G SMITH: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the Arms  Procurement  Programme  is,  by  international  norms,
       groundbreaking  in  terms   of   transparency   and   democratic
       participation;


   (b)  one of the major aspects of the Arms  Procurement  Programme  is
       the  industrial  participation  component   which   is   a   key
       developmental  tool  that  will  lead  to  economic  growth  and
       employment creation;


   (c)  the Defence Industrial Participation component is proceeding  at
       a rapid rate with over 9,1% of the entire DIP credits  over  the
       entire life of the programmes already authorised with a value of
       over R1,3 billion; and


   (d)  one company has - within one year - achieved 27%  of  its  total
       DIP commitment; and

(2) commends the Government for ensuring that the arms procurement process achieves the strategic industrial development programme.

Ms R TALJAARD: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) is concerned about the impression that the Government and all official agencies are continuing to mishandle the investigation into the R43 billion arms deal;

(2) does not support the decision by the Public Protector to exclude television and radio; (3) believes that the withdrawal of Messrs Wally van Heerden and Etienne Smit from the hearings when they are the audit officials with the best knowledge of the matter, once again diminishes public faith and confidence in the process; and

(4) expresses the hope that the hearings will not result in a compromise of the investigation and of the public’s right to know the whole truth about the arms deal.

Prof L B G NDABANDABA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) congratulates the IFP President, Dr M G Buthelezi, MP, on having raised the profile of the third Black and African Festival of Arts and Culture (Festac) 2002 which is at the planning stage for full culmination next year in December; (2) recognises that this significant event will give the necessary impetus to the Millennium African Recovery Programme; and

(3) compliments and applauds Dr Buthelezi for having harmoniously embraced the African and Western cultures for the benefit of the masses of our people and the country as a whole.

Mr L ZITA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the planned marches by young people on 14 June 2001 to demand jobs;

(2) believes that the private sector can play an important role in alleviating youth unemployment; and

(3) calls on the private sector to - (a) create jobs to address the plight of the unemployed youth;

   (b)  invest in skills development and training for young people; and


   (c)  invest in youth-owned enterprises and co-operatives.

[Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Can hon members please speak into the microphones!

Mnr J W LE ROUX: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die Nuwe NP sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) kennis neem dat -

   (a)  historiese geboue die jongste teikens geword het  vir  diewe  en
       vandale en dat veral die Wes-Kaap geteister  word  deur  hierdie
       euwel;


   (b)  daar op groot skaal kentekens vanaf museums en historiese geboue
       gesteel word en as skrootyster verkoop word;


   (c)   die  toename   in   vandalisme   en   ook   graffitibesoedeling
       skrikwekkende afmetings aanneem en dat die beskadiging  van  ons
       historiese erfenis nie verder geduld mag word nie; en


   (d)  die skade reeds miljoene rande beloop; en

(2) die Regering en die gemeenskap versoek om dringend aandag aan hierdie probleem te gee, en te verseker dat oortreders vervolg sal word. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr J W LE ROUX: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  historical buildings have become the latest targets for  thieves
       and vandals and that the Western Cape  in  particular  is  being
       afflicted by this evil;


   (b)   there  is  large-scale  theft  of  emblems  from  museums   and
       historical buildings, which are being sold as scrap metal;


   (c)  increased vandalism as well as graffiti  pollution  is  assuming
       alarming  proportions  and  the  defacement  of  our  historical
       heritage can no longer be tolerated; and


   (d)  damages are already running into millions of rands; and

(2) requests the Government and the community to give urgent attention to this problem and to ensure that the perpetrators are prosecuted.]

Ms A VAN WYK: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) notes the growing number of people who are emigrating, citing the country’s high crime rate as the reason;

(2) further notes that this is a direct indictment of the ineptness of the ruling ANC Government for not adequately dealing with crime and violence;

(3) expresses its concern that the poor are being marginalised while the rich and skilled are emigrating, creating a skills vacuum in all sectors of our society;

(4) urges the Government to protect the poor who are particularly vulnerable to crime as indicated by the Institute for Justice and Reconciliation; and

(5) calls upon the Safety and Security cluster urgently and appropriately to devise an integrated plan to deal with combating crime in South Africa.

Mr B M SOLO: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that figures released by the SA Institute for Chartered Accountants show an increase of 21% for successful prospective black candidates, and that 14% of these are female candidates; (2) also notes that there are currently only 400 black chartered accountants out of 20 000 in South Africa;

(3) further notes that if they all passed their next exam the number of black chartered accountants would double;

(4) welcomes the positive steps and initiatives taken by the Institute to speed up the transformation of the profession; and

(5) congratulates all the successful candidates and wishes them the best of luck with the second part of their exam due to take place in November.

               HONORARY DOCTORATE TO DEPUTY PRESIDENT

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that the University of Zululand has conferred an honorary doctorate on Deputy President Jacob Zuma for his contribution to the struggle for liberation;

(2) believes that the degree is in recognition of the Deputy President’s efforts towards peace and restoring stability, particularly in Kwazulu-Natal;

(3) further notes Deputy President Zuma’s passion for the poor and underprivileged; and

(4) congratulates the Deputy President on his achievement, recognising it as an achievement for peace and reconciliation.

Agreed to.

             25TH ANNIVERSARY OF 16 JUNE SOWETO UPRISING

                         (Draft Resolution) The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY:  Madam  Speaker,  I  move  the  motion printed in my name on the Order Paper as follows:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  that Saturday, 16 June 2001, is the 25th anniversary of the June
       16 Soweto uprising;


   (b)  that this day is of historic significance  as  young  people  in
       Soweto and later throughout the country resisted  the  apartheid
       policies and Bantu education system;


   (c)  the defenceless and unarmed youths  who  selflessly  gave  their
       lives for the liberation of our people; and


   (d)  that the heroic struggles and sacrifices of the  youth  of  this
       generation played an important role in the  building  of  a  new
       nonracial, nonsexist and united South Africa;

(2) resolves to commemorate the 25th anniversary of June 16; and

(3) calls upon the youth to unite in action to fight racism, poverty and the scourge of HIV/Aids with the same commitment and dedication demonstrated by the generation of 1976 in the struggle against apartheid.

Mr S P MAKWETLA: Madam Speaker, hon members, four days from now our country will once again pause and ponder in commemoration of the tragic events of 1976, whose lessons must for all time continue to define our future as a nation. Many families will return to cemeteries to clean and put fresh flowers on the graves of loved ones with fond memories, signifying the price we had to pay for freedom. The events of 1976 added a new word, Soweto, to the vocabulary of world politics, meaning a bloody massacre of unarmed school children by an oppressive regime that was obsessed with racist policies to the total outrage of the entire civilised world.

The student uprising of 1976 was born out of autocratic rule, fanatical racism and total disregard for human rights. Through the introduction of Afrikaans as a medium of instruction, the NP government sought to consolidate white conquest by, among other things, denying blacks their cultural identity.

Today we commemorate June 16 as an important day on our national calendar to underscore that the demands of the 1976 students, who rebelled against Bantu education and apartheid, for equality and respect for cultural diversity, and against racism, discrimination and autocracy, constitute an ideological precept which today gives character to our Constitution and content to our democracy.

Needless to say, this democracy can therefore, with all due respect, not be championed by parties in this Parliament that are remnants of the old establishment. Quite clearly, it is true that what is derisively referred to as the ``lost generation’’ by intellectuals of the old order paradigm, is a generation of youth that indeed got lost to civility and the causes of apartheid. They are, however, the heroic trail blazers of a democratic South Africa.

They accomplished, at an enormous cost to their individual wellbeing, the freedom that we enjoy today. I make these remarks because I believe that it is only through a conscious effort to put our history into perspective that we can limit the temptation by some of us as we prepare to mark this day, to approach June 16 as if it can mean anything and everything to everybody. This Parliament, as the premier political soul of our country, must lead in this regard.

Andile Ngotana wrote in the City Press of 3 June this year that this is a vexed question, even among today’s youth leaders themselves. Xolela Mancu of the Biko Foundation argues that the challenge is to talk about the past using the idiom of today. However, Mancu submits that the celebratory element of kwaito rallies creates an uneasy tension with the sanctity of June 16.

Like all other nations, our future is intrinsically linked with our past. In order to appreciate our shape in future and the content of our democracy we cannot afford to neglect our history, lest we allow an ideological drift from the direction of our historic march. We, too, have a remarkable history as a people. We must vigorously promote it amongst South Africans and narrate it to the world that comes into contact with us, not least those visiting our shores.

We are a nation rising from the ashes of apartheid. We are a country whose many patriots lie buried in foreign lands across the globe because of decades of systematic repression and persecution. We are a people with an undying spirit who believe that time is longer than rope. We are a land of the missing and the dead without graves and yet with an intriguing capacity to forgive evil. This and many other themes of who we are deserve to be narrated by huge monuments, large and big as the stories they must tell the world. Only then will our visitors know that we are more than just a country of sunny skies and fascinating wildlife on top of the good wines and cuisine. Only then can we hope to reverse the alleged political alienation and apathy of our youth. Only then can we prevent the trivialisation of the sacrifices made by this heroic generation in a manner similar to what Sandile Memela wrote in City Press of June 3 this year.

The martyrs and heroes of 1976 surely deserve our appreciation. They do not ask for much. All they expect from us is a place in the glorious history of the struggle for democracy in this country and not derision by some of us who believe that the decisions they took were not for the good of this country.

Mr S E OPPERMAN: Mevrou die Speaker, my tema vir vanmiddag is: Gee ons jongmense hoop.'' [Madam Speaker, my theme for this afternoon is: Give our youth hope.’’] Serious concerns were raised during and after last week’s general elections in the UK about the lack of interest of the youth in politics and in politicians. During our own elections last year, hundreds of thousands of our young people did not even bother to register and hundreds of thousands of them did not turn up at the voting stations. This is an ominous sign, because without the interest and involvement of the youth in politics and in our institutions, we have no future. This must be a concern to all of us.

Dit is nie verkeerd as ons vandag terugdink aan die Soweto-opstande van 1976 nie. Ons kan egter nie verwag dat dit dieselfde emosies by vandag se jongmense sal opwek as wat ons ervaar nie. Die meeste jongmense van vandag voel oor die Soweto-opstande soos jong Afrikaners en Engelse oor die Anglo- Boereoorlog voel. Wat jongmense nodig het, is nuwe inisiatiewe wat nuwe passie by hulle kan loslaat, en dit lyk nie of die Nasionale Jeugkommissie die perd is wat die wa deur die drif gaan kry nie, nie met ‘n kans van meer as 300 000 teen 1 nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[It is not wrong if we think back today to the Soweto uprisings of 1976. We cannot, however, expect that it will evoke the same emotions as we experienced in today’s youth. Most young people of today feel the same way about the Soweto uprisings as young Afrikaners and English-speakers feel about the Anglo-Boer War. What the youth need is new initiatives that will unleash a new passion in them, and it does not seem as if the National Youth Commission will be able to get the job done, not with odds of more than 300 000 to 1 against it.]

Three hundred thousand rand per year was the amount paid to the ex- chairperson of the National Youth Commission for doing what a reporter called a pointless job''. She was the highly paid chairperson when unauthorised spending of over R1,4 million occurred. She was the chairperson when there were seven irregular notch promotions, and although the promotions have been reversed, no deductions for the overpayment have been made. She was also the chairperson of the outgoing executive which recommended that the number of members of the commission be reduced from 19 to 5. They said it was necessary to improve the organisation's efficiency and impact. What a revelation at the end of their term of office! By implication, they said:We were inefficient all these years, and we made no impact.’’

So, once again we are at a point of reflection, and we need to reflect, but reflection without a proper plan of action in which we give direction on the way forward will be an exercise in futility.

And all of us need to grapple with this problem, because although we belong to different political parties with different policies of our different philosophies, we have a common destiny.

Ons gisters en ons eergisters - ons Soweto’s - praat met ons; met elkeen van ons, want geen normale mens is onaangeraak gelaat nie. Op die een of ander wyse was elkeen van ons deel van hierdie traumatiese gebeure, en elkeen met wie gepraat word, reageer. Sommige reageer met onverskilligheid. Hulle sê: ``Laat ons eet en drink en vrolik wees, want môre sterwe ons.’’ Sommige reageer met swaaiende arms, flitsende oë, swetsend met skuimbekwoede; ander reageer met opgerolde moue, hande wat vereelt word en sweet wat op die voorkop pêrel. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Our yesterdays and days before yesterday - our Sowetos - talk to us; to all of us, because no normal person has been left unscathed. In one or other way we were all part of these traumatic events, and everyone that one talks to responds. Some react with indifference. They say: ``Let us eat and drink and be merry, because tomorrow we die.’’ Some react with flailing arms, flashing eyes and incoherent rage; others react with rolled up sleeves, hands that become calloused and sweat that beads their foreheads.]

In whichever way we react, if our reaction does not give hope to those who stare at us with emptiness in their eyes because of the emptiness in their hands and the emptiness in their hearts, we are losing the battle.

Die diamantstormloop in die ongewing van Hopetown het begin nadat ‘n diamant ontdek is waarmee ‘n kind gespeel het. Die kind het nie die waarde besef van wat sy in haar hande gehad het nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The diamond rush in the vicinity of Hopetown started after a child was found playing with a diamond. The child did not realise the value of what she was holding in her hands.]

Our Parliament and our presence here is like a precious diamond. We can use our God-given opportunities positively or waste them in the sands of time.

Mevrou die Speaker, my insipirasie en my leiding kry ek uit die Groot Boek wat onder andere die verhaal vertel van ‘n sekere man wat afgegaan het van Jerusalem na Jerigo en onder rowers verval het. Hulle het hom uitgetrek, geslaan en vir dood laat lê. Die Leviet en die priester het die man gesien maar verbygegaan sonder om enige hulp aan te bied, maar ‘n sekere Samaritaan het nader gegaan en sy hulp verleen. Dit was nie vir die Samaritaan belangrik om te weet wat die identiteit van die man was, wat sy rassegroep was, wat sy politieke affiliasie was, en of hy deel van die ``struggle’’ was nie. Al wat saak gemaak het, was dat hierdie arme slagoffer in nood was!

Daar is miljoene slagoffers in ons land en die nood waarin hulle verkeer, is baie groot; slagoffers van misdaad, van sinnelose moorde waarvoor ons keelvol is - en ons is ook keelvol vir hulle wat politieke speletjies speel met die gruweldade waarmee ons gekonfronteer word - verkragtings, aanrandings, mishandelings, motorskakings; slagoffers van epidemies soos tuberkulose en cholera en vigs; slagoffers van rassisme van alle soorte en komende van alle kante - swart op swart, swart op wit, wit op swart, bruin op geel, groen op wit - en slagoffers van werkloosheid en armoede, en ek glo daar is sekerlik mense vandag wat deel is van die statistieke. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Madam Speaker, my inspiration and my guidance I get from the Great Book that tells the story, inter alia, of a certain man who was travelling from Jerusalem to Jericho when he was set upon by thieves. They stripped off his clothes, beat him and left him for dead. The Levite and the priest, when they saw the man, passed him by without offering any assistance, but a Samaritan approached the man and assisted him. The Samaritan was not concerned about the man’s identity, what racial group he belonged to, what his political affiliation was, and whether he was part of the struggle. All that mattered was that this poor victim was in need of help!

There are millions of victims in our country and the distress they are suffering is huge; victims of crime, senseless murders we are fed-up with - and we are also fed-up with those people that play political games with the atrocities that we are confronted with - rape, assaults, abuse, car hijackings; victims of epidemics such as tuberculosis and cholera and Aids; victims of racism of all kinds and coming from all sides - black on black, black on white, white on black, brown on yellow, green on white - and victims of unemployment and poverty, and I believe there are surely people today who are part of the statistics. [Interjections.]]

It is the responsibility of this Government, with the co-operation of all of us, to give our young people hope, not with empty and fine- sounding clichès, but with policies that will create the environment to deliver the goods.

The Government must be pragmatic. If a policy is not working because of outdated philosophies, it must have the courage to look at other options. We cannot let down those who gave their all to improve the lives of all the people.

May I, in conclusion, put a challenge to the young people out there:

Young people Reach higher Dig deeper Go further Grow stronger And build up the walls that lie ruined all around us!

Don’t look out for favours Don’t shrink back from scorn Don’t copy your traitors Don’t revenge the wrong

Just move on, go forward Your eyes on the goal make service priority and keep yourself whole

Look forward to rewards At the end of the day When your maker will call you And proudly will say It was tough, but you have made it It was well done, my son. [Applause.]

Mr B W DHLAMINI: Madam Speaker, hon members, 25 years ago South Africa went up in flames as the might of the apartheid regime cruelly descended on young African students who, with their feet, were saying``Thus far, and no further!’’ to the imposition of Afrikaans as a medium of instruction. With their bare hands, they faced up to the challenge.

All young people who now walk tall as citizens of a free country must forever pay tribute to the long line of heroes and heroines who sacrificed their day for our freedom. As the youth today surf over the waves of freedom and democracy, they must realise that their predecessors could go so far in the quest for total liberation of the African majority. They need to acknowledge that the struggle is by no means over. Shirking from carrying on with this struggle would be tantamount to betrayal.

The youth of 1976 faced the might of a heartless apartheid state to correct what was wrong in education as well as contribute to a broader struggle. They did not intend to discourage young people from seriously taking part in education. Unfortunately, as the struggle proceeded, we deviated from the spirit of the 1976 uprising. We then trumpeted: ``Liberation first and education later!’’ as our war cry. No wonder the education system of Africans is going to the dogs.

Teachers have totally lost the will and dedication to wage the struggle to its completion. They have totally forgotten that they are captains in charge of an army of liberation. They are now more worried about how much they can gain from the system. Likewise, the youth have completely lost the vision of the 1976 uprising. Today we see hooligans masquerading as youth running amok in schools, terrorising both teachers and students. Today we see rebellion against all forms of authority masquerading as expressions of freedom, defying teachers, parents and leaders with impunity.

Where are the Tsietsi Mashininis who will say: ``Enough is enough’’ It is shameful that the serious youth, instead of confronting the evil that is taking over our schools, flee to the former white and Indian schools. Do we all run for shelter in the former white schools and leave education in the townships to be swept into oblivion?

Another challenge that faces the African youth today is that of cultural identity. Addressing this House on 31 May this year, the prime minister of France, Mr Lionel Jospin, said:

But there is a perceptible risk in many countries that a single form of culture, seen as entertainment, communicated in a single language, will come to dominate … South Africa, however, can see how quickly young people embrace the standards of international culture, and understands the long-term risk of dilution of its historical and cultural identity. Where Africa’s cultural heritage once was pillaged, now it is threatened by new forms of colonization … Africa is the cradle of mankind. It is vital to preserve this heritage, enrich it and pass it on to future generations.

When one watches our youth walk the streets, one would be forgiven for thinking that they are dark-skinned humans from Europe or the US. When one watches our television and listens to our radio stations, one would be forgiven for thinking that one is in a US or European island in Africa.

Our young people must know that they will never be able to wage a struggle for youth development as long as they hide under the skirts of parties whose background and character are not African. Parties like the Disaster Alliance will always retain a perspective that is foreign to an African idiom so long as they do not transform themselves into African parties. [Applause.] The African youth must rally behind and strengthen their organisations which have always been African in character and whose ideals are the true renaissance of the continent. If they think and believe that all is wrong in their organisations, they must challenge the system from within and correct what is wrong. Talking of nonracialism is sweet. But nonracialism must not be a pretext for neglecting the real purpose of the struggle, which is the total liberation of the African majority. Nonracialism cannot be used to present a picture of a ``rainbow’’ nation basking in the sunshine of complete freedom. We are far from attaining rainbow nation status. If there is ever to be such a nation, there still is a job that must be done in the struggle, and it can only be understood and done by Africans.

Africans have an advantage, because those who oppressed us enabled us to be close to them, albeit as workers and slaves. We were, therefore, able to understand their languages and cultures. At least we know a thing or two about them. White children and youth, on the other hand, were sheltered by their parents from any contact with the backward savages. Hence, the problem they grapple with today as adults is trying to understand the African mind.

I challenge the white youth to learn from this blunder. They must now get out of their cocoons and venture into the African world. They must take the initiative to understand indigenous languages and cultures. They must, indeed, take the initiative to be part of the townships and their schools. They must begin to want to learn what it is to be African. This is the one foundation on which we can build racial understanding and harmony in this country.

The cries of ``Amandla!’’, which thundered across the length and breadth of South Africa as the youth pushed forward with the struggle, should not die. They should still echo in the hills and valleys of our country until true liberation rolls down like water, and justice like a stormy stream. Let the youth of our country lead the struggle for development. Let us all be ambassadors of reconciliation and goodwill. [Applause.]

Dr C P MULDER: Madam Speaker, I want to know if the hon member is prepared to take a question. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Unfortunately he has left the podium. [Applause.]

Mr P R MOKABA: Madam Speaker, I would have taken it on his behalf. [Interjections.] Durand is heckling here and asking: ``Are you ANC or IFP?’’ The ANC is the mother of all democratic politics. [Applause.]

Today we are observing a very important week and year. The year 2001 is among the most historic. It marks the launch of the African century. It is the 25th anniversary of June 16, the Soweto uprising. It is also the 30th anniversary of uMkhonto weSizwe. [Applause.] It also takes place in the context of the 45th anniversary of the adoption of the Freedom Charter by the ANC, after it was adopted at the congress in Kliptown in 1955. [Interjections.] This is important. Because we are dealing with the youth, we are dealing with the future.

I must say that it is disappointing that the leaders of the DA are not here today to say exactly what they stand for with regard to the youth and the future of this country. [Interjections.] Instead, their representative Opperman stands up here to attack the youth. [Interjections.] The man attacked the youth, instead of saying to them: ``Young people, do not act like a turncoat, as I did.’’ He was ANC in the 1990s. [Interjections.] He defected and now he attacks the Youth Commission, despite the sterling work that it is doing.

We are meeting here to remember those who died on, before and after June 16, because they fought. For what? They did not fight against education, but for a democratic system of education. They did not fight against Afrikaans, but against the imposition of Afrikaans as a medium of instruction in all communities. [Applause.] That is what is critical because, when one speaks to the youth, one must stick to the truth. [Interjections.]

I would say to Mr Dhlamini that it is indeed true that the slogan Liberation first, education later!'' was a wrong slogan, but it was never a slogan of democratic politics. It was the slogan of the PAC - the master of all irresponsible slogans. [Laughter.] So, let us tell the truth and say that the slogan of the youth of democratic politics was captured most succinctly by Cosas, namelyEach one teach one!’’, having learnt that from the workers’ struggle led by Sadtu, ``An injury to one is an injury to all!’’ [Applause.]

That we saw in the 1973 strikes, which prepared for June 16. June 16 was not an event, but was part of a process of liberation. It was built by the Mandelas, the Sisulus, the O R Tambos, and all who came before us, who launched the Youth League at an institution of education, Fort Hare.

The struggle, as led by the ANC, has always said that education is the first act of liberation. So, let us not tell lies - that is what we were taught, namely that revolutionaries tell no lies and claim no easy victories - because it is on the basis of truth that we will be able to build a nonracial, democratic and prosperous South Africa; not on the basis of rewriting history. That is what the youth of South Africa have learned; that is what they must be taught today. As we speak to them today, it is important to direct them to the real things, namely that they can only gain what they demand if they remain organised. Where must they be organised? It is in the organisation of democratic politics, that is, the ANC in the first place and, generally, all organisations that stand for liberation. They have to ensure that they safeguard the right that they have won, the right to elections, and ensure that the historic mistake that we made in the Western Cape, of still experimenting with whether or not the DA can govern, ends with the next election. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

The first thing that they must do is to ensure that they help to rebuild the families in the African communities which were destroyed by apartheid. This task is outstanding, particularly in the coloured and African communities. It is important for them to know that they will be adults some day. They have to learn how to be adults by respecting and safeguarding their own families today. How? By fighting against crime and gangsterism and ensuring that they remain in school and pursue knowledge. That is why the first words of the SA Youth Congress, when it was launched, were that the youth must learn. What must they learn? They must learn historical and dialectical materialism, which is the science of knowledge. [Interjections.] What is knowledge? They said that knowledge is the acquisition of the art and science of living and that it is important for the youth to pursue the truth at all times. What is the criterion for truth? Practice.

So, while they discuss Zimbabwe, HIV/Aids and every other issue that the DP thinks is something that makes for politics, the youth must look for science and abandon superstition. [Interjections.] That is why it is critical for them to stand up in defence of the ANC, here and abroad, and to stand up in defence of the President of this country, here and abroad, because it is not an attack against an individual, it is an attack against the direction that we are taking as a country and against what we are saying we need: our independence, an independent and prosperous African continent and to be as equal as everyone in the whole world, black and white. That is what the youth must be told.

They should ensure that we end the experiences of Babeile and Tshepo Matloha who, today, are still suffering from the ravages of the racism taught by white parents to their own children. It is their responsibility, as our youth, to move out and hold each other’s hands and point to the future where they will have left the DA behind. [Interjections.]

Because this, my people, is a historic mistake. The continued existence of the DA is a historic mistake, and it is the task of black and white youth to ensure that we agree on the fundamentals of what our society should be. Let us compete on how to implement those fundamentals. We cannot do so with a grouping like this. [Applause.]

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Madam Speaker, the DA is not a historical mistake; it is a reality of the future. [Interjections.] Yes, the ANC might be a very good political organisation, and liberation before education'' might have been a PAC slogan, but it was practised by the ANC. I will come back to that later in my speech. [Interjections.] And, of course,Kill the boer, kill the farmer’’ was not a PAC slogan.

Mev die Speaker, Paul Kruger het gesê: Neem uit die verlede wat mooi en goed is en bou daarop voort. Met apologie aan Kruger wil ek sê: Neem uit die verlede dit wat lelik en sleg is en vermy dit op die pad vorentoe. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Madam Speaker, Paul Kruger said: Take from the past that which was fine and good and build on it. With apologies to Kruger I want to say the following: Take from the past that which was ugly and bad and avoid it on the way forward.]

Take that which is bad and reprehensible from the past and use it as a warning not to repeat those mistakes. What bad and reprehensible events led to the Soweto uprising on Wednesday, 16 June 1976? The report of the commission of enquiry into the Soweto uprising listed the enforcement of Afrikaans as a language of instruction as a major catalyst leading to the Soweto uprising, which spilled over to other parts of the country as well. [Interjections.] One can hardly believe one’s eyes when one reads the report.

Die gebrekkige kennis van, byvoorbeeld, Afrikaans aan die kant van die leerlinge sal nie as verskoning aangebied kan word nie. Indien daar ‘n onderwyser op die personeel is wat byvoorbeeld landbou deur die medium van Afrikaans kan gee, dan moet dit gedoen word ongeag die leerling se kennis van daardie taal. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The poor knowledge of, for example, Afrikaans on the part of the pupils cannot be offered as an excuse. If there was a teacher on the staff who could, for instance, teach agriculture through the medium of Afrikaans, then this had to be done regardless of the pupil’s knowledge of that language.]

The irony is that this kind of language imperialism was imposed by Afrikaners whose own forefathers were themselves the victims of language imperialism under Lord Milner at the end of the previous century. Had one learnt from the mistakes of others one would not have perpetuated the same injustice during the 1970s.

However, unfortunately, language imperialism once again hovers in the air, especially when one looks at the national plan for higher education which tends to transform all universities and technikons into single-language institutions. Language imperialism was a reprehensible mistake not to be repeated in future and hopefully the ANC Government will not follow in the footsteps of the Afrikaners of 1976.

The Soweto uprising was part and parcel of the liberation struggle. Political tyranny by the minority was a bad mistake not to be repeated in future. But once again the irony is that it was imposed predominantly by Afrikaners whose forefathers were themselves the first to fight a liberation war on the continent of Africa. Given their experience, one would have thought that they at least would not repeat the mistakes of the colonial powers. Yet that is exactly what they did and, unfortunately, most of us endorsed it.

Unfortunately, political tyranny is also once again hovering in the air. This time around, the tyranny by the majority is as bad as the tyranny by the minority. I am hopeful that the ANC Government will come to its senses so that people belonging to cultural, religious and linguistic communities will no longer feel like aliens in their own country. Activating the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities will be a good starting point.

The Soweto uprising was not an isolated incident. It was part of a strategy to make the country ungovernable and although the hon Mokaba denies it was driven by the slogan ``liberation before education’’, this had a devastating effect on education and resulted in a lost generation, as was the case in China during the cultural revolution. [Interjections.]

One just wonders whether the price paid by some pupils was not too high. Hendrick Tshabalala describes his experience as follows in an article in Rapport:

The Soweto uprising had a tremendously negative impact on my education. If it was not for the 16th of June I could have become somebody like Mandela.

I repeat, ``if it was not for the 16th of June I could have become someone like Mandela’’.

Mr H P CHAUKE: Who, you?

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Not me, I am quoting. Dan Mnkonyane said:

I wanted to become a medical doctor. It never happened because things fell apart.

The use of learners as revolutionary agents, however praiseworthy the cause might have been, was wrong and should never have happened. A sound education is the key to making South Africa a successful country. Let us never again deprive anybody of the opportunity to educate himself or herself to the best of his or her ability.

We once again want to reaffirm our sympathy to the parents who lost children in the Soweto uprising of 1976.

Mr D G MKONO: Madam Speaker and hon members, the anniversary of the Soweto uprising brings with it harsh memories of repression but also reminds us of the triumph of the human spirit. More than anything else it reminds us of the might of the youth, their ability to be catalysts for change. The liberation that was looked upon as almost impossible twenty years ago has become a reality, and all of this in a relatively peaceful fashion too.

The generation of 1976 played an important role. They became, in many instances, the leaders of today and yet the work is not done. We must realise that the fruit of our labour must still be nurtured for it to ripple into lasting benefits for our children. It is with this imperative in mind that we must learn to look at our history not as something divisive but as a stark reminder of the pain and suffering that resulted from racial disunity and segregation.

Today more than ever our history must spur us towards greater unity and the forging of partnerships between all South Africans. It is for this very reason that the UDM was launched, with a vision of creating a political home for all South Africans united in the spirit of South Africanism by our common passion for our country, mobilising the creative spirit inherent in our rich diversity.

The need to build partnerships is highlighted by a survey released yesterday by the Institute for Justice and Reconciliation. The findings confirm that 56% of black people and 33% of whites think the other group is not trustworthy. These figures are a wake-up call for all political parties that the politics of race, which continue to be an expedient vote-grabbing tool for many across the spectrum, threaten all that we have achieved in the past seven years.

On this anniversary we must remember not only the youth of yesteryear, but also the youth of today and tomorrow. They must inherit from us more than just painful memories of young people bleeding on the streets of Soweto, but also realities of socioeconomic freedom, resulting from multiracial harmony and partnership. Without an inheritance that emphasises our common humanity and our shared future, our youth may very well end up in 25 years’ time bleeding on the streets of Soweto for a better future, which their fathers and mothers were unable to give them.

Adv Z L MADASA: Madam Speaker, on belhalf of the ACDP I would like to move an amendment to this motion deleting the words in paragraph 3: to fight racism, poverty and the scourge of HIV/Aids'', and replacing them with the words:to build nonracialism, prosperity for all, and an HIV/Aids-free society’’.

I move this amendment because of a genuine concern about the negative culture the youth has inherited, that is, fighting things instead of building them. I say this with authority, having been an active participant in the 1976 riots here in Cape Town. Since the advent of democracy a lot has changed. I appeal for a change in strategy. We know how to fight; let us now teach the youth how to build.

Masifundise ulutsha ukuba eli lilizwe lethu, yaye lo nguRhulumente wabantu, wesininzi. Masakhane siyeke ukulwa. Ulutsha maluncedise ekwakheni isizwe. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[Let us teach our youth that this is our country and that this is a democratically elected government, the majority government. Let us build each other and stop fighting. The youth must assist in the building of the nation.]

As adults let us teach our youth, such as those in Cosas, to stop fighting and to begin to build. Let us turn our youth around from negativism and hopelessness, to a positive and optimistic attitude. I propose that policy- makers in Government, political parties, business and society in general must have youth development as an integral part of all their strategies and policy-making. It is the adults’ responsibility to train the youth. Let us train the youth in the way they should go, and when they are old they will not depart from it.

It is our duty to inculcate good moral values into our youth. We must teach them the values of sacrifice for their country, respect for parents and elders, respect for one another. Let us teach them to have tenacity and resilience in the face of crime, and not to head for greener pastures. If all the youth run away, who is going to build this nation? Let us teach our youth to plough back what they have received. Let us teach them to respect the Government, the administration, its officials for examples ministers, mayors, preachers, premiers and so on. The adult must lead by example and, for example, steer clear of foul language. The media in all its forms must take responsibility because they inculcate values, good or bad, in our youth.

Mayiphele le nto, umzekelo, yokuba kubizwe uMongameli ngegama, kuthiwe nguThabo. Yintoni esiyifundisa ulutsha xa sibiza uMongameli ngegama? Sifundisa abantwana ukudelela uRhulumente ngolo hlobo. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[Let this habit of calling the President by his first name stop. What message are we sending to the youth when we call our President by his first name? We are teaching children to disrespect the Government in that way.]

Let us help our youth to come out of the culture of fighting, let us teach them by example to become builders and, above all, let us teach our youth the fear of God. [Applause.]

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Mevrou die Speaker, die bates en die rykdom van ‘n land lê nie in sy minerale of nywerhede nie, maar in sy mense. Die mense van ‘n land bepaal hoe sterk ‘n land se ekonomie is, hoe vreedsaam ‘n land is en wat die norme en waardes van ‘n land is. Die mense van ‘n land bepaal of daar wedersydse respek vir mekaar, vir verskillende volke en vir verskillende lande is. Die toekoms van ‘n land en sy mense word dan ook bepaal deur sy jeug.

Die konsepbesluit maak melding van die opoffering van die jeug in die uitbouing van ‘n nuwe, nie-rassige, nie-seksistiese en verenigde Suid- Afrika. Die vraag is egter, het ons ‘n verenigde Suid-Afrika? Het ons ‘n stabiele Suid-Afrika? Het ons ‘n Suid-Afrika waarin daar wedersydse respek is vir mekaar?

Die werklikheid is dat die nuwe generasie van die jeug dit anders ervaar. Die nuwe swart jeug volg die voorbeeld van hulle voorgangers, naamlik om paaie te versper, om motors aan die brand te steek en skade aan te rig soos vanoggend gebeur het by Britstown en vroeër vanjaar in Warrenton. Die kultuur van geweld wat deur die ANC geskep is, word vandag deur die swart jeug voortgesit, nádat hulle bevryding ervaar het, en die vraag is, vir watter doel?

Die blanke jeug van Suid-Afrika vertrek vandag na Londen, nie omdat hulle noodwendig daar wil wees nie, maar omdat regstellende optrede in Suid- Afrika hulle dwing om daarheen te gaan, wat niks anders is nie as rassediskriminasie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is die nuwe blanke jeug, wat nie deel was van apartheid nie, maar wat die prys moet betaal vir apartheid.

Die 1976-onluste het onder meer gegaan oor die taalkwessie in swart skole. As na die onluste van 1976 verwys word, word daar ook altyd verwys na die krag en die emosie wat taal by groepe teweeg bring. Hiervan moet die Regering baie duidelik kennis neem. Tans word tale in Suid-Afrika verdring en ongelyk behandel, veral deur die huidige Regering, tot voordeel van Engels.

Die VF is ten gunste van die gelykberegtiging van al ons amptelike tale en nie net Afrikaans nie. Die werklikheid is dat daar ‘n bepaalde aanslag teen Afrikaans as sodanig is, veral in die staatsdiens en die werkplek. Ek wil dit egter baie duidelik vandag hier sê: ek is trots daarop om Afrikaans te kan praat, want dit is my moedertaal, en dit behoort vir almal ‘n saak van trots te wees om in hulle moedertaal te kan praat. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Ek wil dit vandag duidelik stel, as ons die taalregte van groepe en individue misken, sal ons ‘n nuwe vlaag van onluste in Suid-Afrika begin ervaar. Die nuwe blanke jeug sal dan ook sê: ``Aluta continua!’’ [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Madam Speaker, the assets and the wealth of a country do not lie in its minerals or industries, but in its people. The people of a country determine how strong its economy is, how peaceful it is and what its norms and values are. The people of a country determine whether there is mutual respect for one another, for different peoples and for different countries. The future of a country and its people is also determined by its youth.

The draft resolution makes reference to the sacrifice of the youth in the development of a new, nonracial, nonsexist and united South Africa. However, the question is, do we have a united South Africa? Do we have a stable South Africa? Do we have a South Africa in which there is mutual respect for one another?

The reality is that the new generation of our youth are experiencing this quite differently. The new black youth are following the example of their predecessors, namely blocking roads, burning motor cars and causing damage, as happened this morning in Britstown and earlier this year in Warrenton. The culture of violence that was created by the ANC is being continued today by the black youth, after they have experienced their freedom, and the question is, to what purpose?

The white youth of South Africa are today leaving for London, not necessarily because they want to be there, but because affirmative action in South Africa is forcing them to go there, which is nothing short of racial discrimination. [Interjections.] It is the new white youth, who were not part of apartheid, who must pay the price for apartheid.

The 1976 riots were, inter alia, about the language issue in black schools. Whenever reference is made to the 1976 riots, reference is also always made to the power and the emotion that language brings about in groups. The Government must take careful cognisance of this. Currently, languages are being marginalised and treated unequally in South Africa, especially by the current Government, to the benefit of English.

The FF is in favour of the equality of all our official languages, and not only Afrikaans. The reality is that there is a specific onslaught against Afrikaans as such, especially in the Public Service and the workplace. However, I want to state very clearly today: I am proud to be able to speak Afrikaans, because it is my mother tongue, and it should be a matter of pride for everyone to be able to speak their mother tongue. [Interjections.]

I want to state clearly today that if we fail to appreciate the language rights of groups and individuals, we will begin to experience a new wave of riots in South Africa. The new white youth will then also say: ``Aluta continua!’’ [Interjections.]

Mnr P A GERBER: Mevrou die Speaker, dit is vir my bevrydend en ‘n voorreg om in Afrikaans aan hierdie debat deel te neem, in hierdie bevryde inheemse taal wat sy verdrukkerskubbe afgeskud het en gesond geword het, hierdie taal wat die vonk in die kruitvat was. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr P A GERBER: Madam Speaker, it is liberating and a privilege for me to participate in this debate in Afrikaans, in this liberated indigenous language which has shaken off the scales of the oppressor and become well, this language which was the spark in the tinder-box.]

In no other democracy in the world will one experience such patience, forgiveness and freedom.

Ek wil graag hierdie toespraak opdra aan die drie Visser-weeskindertjies van my kiesafdeling, Ceres. Die jaar 1976 hou vir mense verskillende betekenisse in. Dit was ook die eerste jaar waarin daar ‘n oudleerling van ons skool op die grens as dienspligtige doodgeskiet is. Ja, Douga Kotze, ‘n Boland-rugbyspeler op pad na Springbokkleure, se dood het die oorlog vir ons aan die Weskus huis toe gebring. Soos hulle sê, ``Older men declare war, but it is the youth who must fight and die.’’

Dit was die eerste keer dat ons skool aan die Weskus ‘n oomblik van stilte gehandhaaf het vir ‘n gestorwe oudleerling. Dit was ook die jaar waarin my predikantpa die eerste keer ‘n gestorwe soldaat moes begrawe. Dit was ook die jaar waarin my moeder een van die enigste twee onderwyseresse was wat tydens die onluste toegelaat is om in die bruin skool in Louwville aan te hou skoolhou.

Baie van ons het nooit as jong kinders geweet van die drie vakke in Engels en drie vakke in Afrikaans van die kinders van Soweto nie. Op die enkelkanaalnuus is ons gebombardeer deur propaganda teen sogenaamde kommuniste en terroriste. Net soos Zola Budd eers in Brittanje gehoor het van Nelson Mandela, is die jong wit jeug gekastreer deur disinformasie. Vir wie moet die wit jeug van daardie tyd hierdie rekening stuur van hulle verwronge en vermorste jare? Die boodskapper sit afgetree iewers langs die see.

Nooit ooit moet die jeug van Suid-Afrika weer toelaat dat politici hulle drome kontamineer of besoedel met ideologieë nie. Jongmense moet die dinge in hulle omgewing wat nog nie reg is nie onverbiddelik aanvat. Geen misdaad, geen geweld en geen rassisme is die eerste gebod van ons nuwe Suid- Afrika.

Ek sit Sondagoggend in my kerk, die NG Kerk in Wellington, wat halfvol wit lidmate sit. Twee straatblokke verder begin die sogenaamde bruin gebied. Ek kan nie glo dat dit in die jaar 2001 nog steeds so is nie. Die wit kinders gaan ná die diens na die wit NG Kerk se sondagskool. Hoe is dit moontlik dat ons steeds ons kinders onderwerp aan kerkapartheid?

Is dit nie die eerste plek waar ons moes saam gebid het voor ons saam gepolitiek het nie? Kerkapartheid moet stop. Dit was Christus wat gesê het: ``Bring die kindertjies na my toe.’’ Maandagoggend gaan daardie selfde kindertjies na die plaaslike model C-skool. Daar sit hulle saam met hulle bruin en swart maats op dieselfde skoolbanke, maar hulle mag nie toegelaat word om saam op dieselfde kerkbanke te sit nie.

As ons kyk na die personeel by ons model-C skole, is baie van die skole se personeel nog leliewit, dit terwyl die kinders lankal geïntegreerd is. Ons is weer eens besig om nog steeds apartheid in die personeelkamer te bedryf. Ons kan nie so aangaan nie. Dit is hierdie dinge wat die jeug van Suid- Afrika sal moet regstel. ‘n Nasie wat nie na sy jeug kyk nie, is soos ‘n astrante, dom man wat nie pensioen uitneem vir sy aftrede nie. Die afgelope week is my kiesafdeling, Ceres-Witzenberg, geruk deur die barbaarse dubbele moord van ‘n Ceres-egpaar. Daardie egpaar se dood het ons gelaat met drie weeskindertjies: Klein Jan, Bennie en Danie Visser. Toe die skoolhoof die drie seuntjies ingeroep het om hulle mee te deel van hul ouers wat vermoor is, was die eerste reaksie van die een seuntjie: Wie gaan na die diere kyk?'' Hy het nie gesê:Gaan jag die mense wat my pa- hulle geskiet het nie.’’ Hulle het moedig vorentoe gekyk. Daardie moordenaars is verseker van ‘n bed, drie etes, warm water en ‘n dak oor hul koppe vir die res van hul lewens in die tronk. As hulle wil, kan hul dalk ook nog deur Unisa studeer.

Ceres se nuutste drie weeskindertjies is egter nie verseker van ‘n dak oor hulle koppe, ‘n warm bed of drie etes per dag nie, en tog sê hulle dat ons die moordenaars moet vergewe, want ``anders gaan hulle nie in die hemel kom nie, en dan kan jy self nie in die hemel kom nie’’.

Aldus Bennie Visser. Uit die mond van die suigeling hoor jy die waarheid. Hierdie drie jong mannetjies leer vir baie van ons jongmense in hierdie land ‘n les, jongmense wat so maklik verval in die spiraal van negatiwitiet, apatie en mismoedigheid. [Tussenwerpsels.] Baie keer vra jongmense of hulle ouers genoeg gedoen het om apartheid te keer.

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Mevrou die Speaker, is die agb lid bereid om ‘n vraag te beantwoord?

Mnr P A GERBER: Hy mors my tyd. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I would like to dedicate this speech to the three orphaned Visser children of my constituency, Ceres. The year 1976 means different things to people. It was also the first year in which a former pupil of our school was shot dead on the border while doing military service. Yes, the death of Douga Kotze, a Boland rugby player on his way to Springbok colours, brought the war home to us on the West Coast. As they say, ``Older men declare war, but it is the youth who must fight and die.’’

That was the first time our school on the West Coast maintained a moment of silence for a deceased former pupil. That was also the year in which my father, who was a minister, had to bury a deceased soldier for the first time. It was also the year in which my mother was one of only two teachers who were allowed to continue teaching in the coloured school in Louwville during the unrest.

As young children many of us never knew about the three subjects in English and three subjects in Afrikaans of the children of Soweto. On the single- channel news we were bombarded with propaganda against so-called communists and terrorists. Just as Zola Budd only heard about Nelson Mandela in Britain, the young white youth were castrated by disinformation. To whom should the white youth of that period send their account for their warped and wasted years? The messenger has retired somewhere along the coast.

The youth of South Africa must never again allow politicians to contaminate or pollute their dreams with ideologies. Young people must relentlessly tackle the things in their environment which are not yet right. No crime, no violence and no racism is the first commandment of our new South Africa.

On Sunday morning I sit in my church, the NG Church in Wellington, which is half full of white members. Two street blocks away the so-called coloured area begins. I cannot believe that this is still the case in the year 2001. After the service the white children go to the white NG Church’s Sunday school. How is it possible that we still subject our children to church apartheid?

Is that not the first place where we should have prayed together before we became engaged in politics together? Church apartheid must stop. It was Christ who said: ``Bring the little children unto me.’’ On Monday morning those same children go to the local Model C school. There they sit with their coloured and black friends on the same school benches, but they are not allowed to sit in the same church pews with them.

If we look at the staff at our Model C schools, many of these schools’ staff complement is still lily-white, and that while the children have been integrated for some time now. Once again we are still engaging in apartheid in the staff room. We cannot go on like this. It is things like this which the youth of South Africa will have to rectify. A nation which does not look after its youth is like an impudent, stupid man who does not take out a pension for his retirement.

During the past week my constituency, Ceres-Witzenberg, was shaken by the barbaric double murder of a Ceres couple. That couple’s death has left us with three orphans: little Jan, Bennie and Danie Visser. When the principal called the three boys in to tell them about their parents who had been murdered, the one little boy’s first reaction was: Who is going to look after the animals?'' He did not say:Go and hunt the people who killed my parents.’’ They looked ahead courageously. Those murderers are assured of a bed, three meals, hot water and a roof over their heads for their rest of their lives in prison. If they wish, they could also possibly study through Unisa.

However, Ceres’s newest three orphans are not assured of a roof over their heads, a warm bed or three meals a day, and yet they say that we should forgive the murderers, because ``otherwise they will not go to heaven, and then we cannot go to heaven either. This according to Bennie Visser. Out of the mouths of babes one hears the truth.

These three young boys are teaching many of our young people in this country a lesson, young people who so easily fall into the spiral of negativity, apathy and despair. [Interjections.] Often young people ask whether their parents did enough to prevent apartheid.

Mr P J GROENEWALD: Madam Speaker, is the hon member prepared to answer a question?

Mr P A GERBER: He is wasting my time. [Interjections.]]

He is wasting my time.

Wat ons moet vra, is of ons ouers genoeg doen ná apartheid, nie voor apartheid nie. Maak hulle ‘n verskil, of saai hulle verdere gif teen die nuwe Suid-Afrika? Ons as ouers het die toekoms geleen by ons kinders. Ons het dit nie geërf by ons voorgeslagte nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[What we should ask is whether our parents are doing enough after apartheid, not before apartheid. Are they making a difference, or are they sowing further poison against the new South Africa? We as parents borrow the future from our children. We did not inherit it from our ancestors. [Interjections.]]

I wanted to analyse your brain, but I have not found it yet. [Interjections.]

Aan die jongmense van Suid-Afrika wil ek sê dat terwyl daar jongmense is, sal daar ‘n ANC vir hulle wees, en terwyl daar mense is wat ly as gevolg van honger, armoede en rassisme, sal daar ‘n ANC vir hulle wees.

Ons is in vir moeilike weer. Ons sal ons sitplekgordels moet vasmaak. Ons sal ons ouers moet dagvaar tot nasiebou. Ons sal moet bou aan ‘n nuwe nasionalisme. Die jeug moet help dat ons ‘n land skep waarin helde wil bly. Ons demokrasie moet sterk word sodat dit die instinkte van ons jeug kan vertrou. Daar is ‘n nuwe geslag van robuuste, patriotiese jongmense besig om op te staan: jongmense wat nie jappiegriep het nie, maar ammunisie is in die arsenale van ons jong demokrasie, jongmense wat die hele Afrika hulle speelveld maak, jongmense wat Afrika veilig maak vir demokrasie en ‘n markekonomie.

Die enigste ding wat hulle vrees, is vrees self. Dit is jongmense wat verskil met dit wat Bernard Shaw gesê het, naamlik: ``Youth is wasted on young people.’’ Dit is jongmense wat nie innerlik emigreer nie, dit is jongmense wat oorsee gaan met retoerkaartjies, wat nie weghardloop van die probleme in Suid-Afrika nie. Dit is jongmense wat glo dit is geseënd om te lewe, maar dit is hemels om jonk te wees. Dis is belowende jongmense, nie jongmense met beloftes nie.

Ek wil graag afsluit met ‘n gedig wat die oorlede digter H A Fagan voor 1939 geskryf het:

Nkosi sikelel' i-Afrika'' Uit duisend monde word die lied gedra. Ek sluit my oe; soos 'n serafskoor val daar stemme strelend op my oor: Nkosi sikelel’ i-Afrika’’ - ons vra U seen, o Heer, vir Afrika. Ek kyk, en sien die skare voor my staan: Zoeloe en Kosa, Soeto en Sjangaan, en ek, ‘n Blanke - vele volkre, ja, - almal verenigd om Gods seen te vra op net een tuiste, net een vaderland, want die Alwyse het ons saam geplant en saam laat wortel in Suid-Afrika. ``Nkosi sikelel’ i-Afrika’’ - seën, Heer, die land wat vele volkre dra.

[Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I want to say to the young people of South Africa that as long as there are young people, there will be an ANC for them, and as long as there are people who suffer as a consequence of hunger, poverty and racism, there will be an ANC for them.

We are in for heavy weather. We will have to fasten our seatbelts. We will have to summons our parents to nation-building. We will have to build a new nationalism. The youth will have to help us create a country in which heroes want to live. Our democracy must become strong so that it can trust the instincts of our youth. A new generation of robust, patriotic young people is rising up: young people who do not have yuppie flu, but are ammunition in the arsenal of our young democracy, young people who make the entire Africa their playing field, young people who make Africa safe for democracy and a market economy.

The only thing they fear is fear itself. These are young people who disagree with what Bernard Shaw said, namely: ``Youth is wasted on young people.’’ These are young people who do not emigrate internally, these are young people who go overseas with return tickets, who do not run away from the problems in South Africa. These are young people who believe that it is a blessing to be alive, but it is heavenly to be young. These are promising young people, not young people with promises.

I would like to conclude with a poem written by the late poet H A Fagan before 1939:

Nkosi sikelel'i-Afrika'' Uit duisend monde word die lied gedra. Ek sluit my oë; soos 'n serafskoor val daar stemme strelend op my oor: Nkosi sikelel’i-Afrika’’ - ons vra U seën, o Heer, vir Afrika. Ek kyk, en sien die skare voor my staan: Zoeloe en Kosa, Soeto en Sjangaan, en ek, ‘n Blanke - vele volkre, ja, - almal verenigd om Gods seën te vra op net een tuiste, net een vaderland, want die Alwyse het ons saam geplant en saam laat wortel in Suid-Afrika. ``Nkosi sikelel’ i-Afrika’’ - seën, Heer, die land wat vele volkre dra.

[Applause.]]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Speaker, the class of 1976, among the youth, took courage to fight against enforced Afrikaans in their education. They mounted their resolve with passion, discipline and diligence.

In commemorating the silver anniversary of that fateful day, which resulted in over 1 000 young people dying, some being maimed for life and others fleeing the country, we should do so in a dignified, disciplined and passionate manner.

Our youth should look ahead and not try to replay the events of 1976. We should imbue them with the spirit of hard work and discipline. The liberation attained should be guarded by people who will work until sweat turns to blood.

Quality education, which the youth strove for, should be the target for all, young and old. Our youth should seek knowledge that knows no colour, which will put South African youth on a par with the best in the world.

The fight against racism, poverty and HIV/Aids will remain wishful thinking if our young people are not properly educated and disciplined. A nonsexist, nonracial and united South Africa means nothing if people continue to feel entitled to the wealth of the country without doing anything.

With discipline, the youth will be tolerant, diligent and resist premarital and unprotected sex, thereby avoiding HIV/Aids. Discipline goes hand in hand with self-control. No one should go about like a loose cannon.

The 41-year-old Poppie Buthelezi of Soweto, who is wheelchair-bound, is a victim of the shooting on 16 June 1976. She laments the kwaito singers as attractions for commemorating the day. This, according to her, does not dignify the day at all. June 16 functions should be commemorative, not celebrative. We should be solemn and dignified, so that posterity can learn more about the fallen heroes who contributed hugely in accelerating the liberation process of this country.

We call on the youth to unite while we pray that much of their strength, which they forged into this world with great determination, should make this country a pleasant one to live in. We plead with them to resist the temptation to commit crime.

We pay tribute to the dauntless young men and women, some of whom are in this House, who stood up at the time. We appreciate the good fight they fought. We admire the full distance that they have run and, surely, one day they will wear the crown of victory.

Dr M S MOGOBA: Madam Speaker, this is a historic day, as we commemorate the 25th anniversary of 16 June 1976 and the Soweto uprisings. We honour the young heroes who sacrificed, early in the prime of their lives, for no earthly reason except that they had reached the point where they had run out of patience and had to declare: Enough, enough.

The Soweto crisis was about education. Dr Andries Treurnicht, acting on behalf of his party and government, issued a circular demanding that, as the English and Afrikaners were paying for black education, the medium of instruction in schools should be on a 50/50 basis, in English and Afrikaans. I wonder how many English and Afrikaans pupils would have tolerated being taught on a 50/50 basis through the medium of Venda and IsiXhosa. This was naked bullying, white domination with its head off.

Having taught in schools at the time, I know that there was a cold war between the government of the day and the English language. The contested sphere of influence and domination was the African masses. Leron Bennett, in The Negro Mood, wrote:

The question of education for black people is a question of life and death. It is a political question, a question of power. The power to name, to define and control minds. He who controls minds has little or nothing to fear.

Verwoerd, Treurnicht and their type were in blissful ignorance of the fact that leaders like Biko, Sobukwe and Mothopeng had long been waging a battle of mental liberation. Listen to what Mothopeng had said earlier:

The aim of the ideas of the ruling class is to enslave the African child perpetually and make him feel inferior, so that he might become an easy victim of easy exploitation.

Listen to what Biko had said later:

Not only have the whites been bullying, been guilty of being offensive, but, by some skilful manoeuvre, they have managed to control the responses of the blacks to the provocation. Not only have they kicked the black but they also show him how he should react to the kick.

And also listen to what Pityana had to say in 1971:

We have been oppressed a great deal. We have been exploited a great deal. It is our weakness that has led to our people being oppressed, exploited and disregarded. Now we want a revolution, a revolution which brings to an end our weakness, so that we are never again exploited, oppressed or humiliated. The grand plan of white domination was turned on its head.

What have we learned from Soweto 1976? I want to suggest that in particular the Afrikaans language nearly disappeared from the face of South Africa because of the blunder of 1976. That should not be repeated again, because Afrikaans is a beautiful language spoken by all people, including blacks. It also teaches us something about national unity. It also teaches us something about education, that it should be raised to a level where the youth of this country can actually have better education and be able to improve themselves. The question of unemployment, particularly of school- leavers, is a prime factor as well as the question of Aids.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The hon member’s time has expired. Before I call on the next speaker, I would like to recognise my predecessor, the former Deputy Speaker, Dr Ranchod. Welcome back. [Applause.] I also wish to recognise a delegation from the Botswana parliament, led by their Deputy Speaker. Welcome. [Applause.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, today, this year, this week reminds us of the sadness of losing our beloved children. The MF notes with sadness the 25th anniversary of the Soweto uprising. The so-called Soweto uprising is the result of one of the inhumanities, evils and cruelties displayed by the previous apartheid regime, when numerous students were killed in the battle between students and the police. This occurred because students from several schools in Soweto protested against the use of Afrikaans as a medium of instruction in the school. One of the students said: We strongly refuse to swallow an education that is designed to make us slaves in the country of our birth.

Now, 25 years later, the MF wishes to salute those young unsung heroes of yesteryear who formed the stumbling block of a long fight against apartheid and achieved the freedom and democracy that we have today.

Now we acknowledge 16 June as South African Youth Day in honour of those young people. As former President Nelson Mandela said on 16 June 1994:

The youth were inspired by a thirst for knowledge: Knowledge that knows no colour; knowledge acquired through persuasion and hard work; knowledge that taps and releases creative energies; and knowledge that puts the South African youth on a par with the rest of the world.

The MF compliments Government for the development of a youth policy, which has the inclusion of principles to ensure the involvement of the youth in the democratisation of South African society. It is also commendable to note the adoption of the South African Schools Act, Act 84 of 1996, that provides that Government must fund public schools on an equitable basis to redress past inequities in education provision.

The MF also compliments Government for its budget allocation to the National Youth Commission and supports 16 June being declared South African Youth Day. The MF calls on all young people to move forward and build a better and peaceful South Africa. I just want to leave a little bit of knowledge with the youth of today: Help ever, hurt never. [Applause.]

Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, in a debate like today’s, one has a choice between the politically correct approach and the honest approach. I prefer the latter. A prominent part of South African society does not identify with Youth Day on 16 June. Allow me to motivate this.

Die jeug, sonder al die ingewikkelde agendas van ons grootmense, behoort ‘n samebindende faktor te wees tussen die verskillende gemeenskappe in Suid- Afrika. ‘n Dag soos Jeugdag behoort dit te simboliseer, maar 16 Junie slaag egter nie daarin nie. Ek gun Suid-Afrikaners wat in die struggle gestaan het van harte hul reg om hierdie dag te gedenk. Dit is beslis vir hulle ‘n hoogtepunt op die kalender. Die vraag is egter of met reg en billikheid van alle gemeenskappe in Suid-Afrika verwag kan word om ewe opgewonde te raak oor hierdie dag. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The youth, minus all the intricate agendas of we adults, ought to be a factor that unites the various communities in South Africa. A day such as Youth Day ought to symbolise this, but 16 June does not succeed in that. I wholeheartedly grant those South Africans who were part of the struggle the right to commemorate this day. To them this definitely is a highlight on their calendar. However, the question is whether one can, in all fairness, expect all South Africa’s communities to be equally excited about this day.]

The date 16 June tells a story, after all. It tells a story, if one listens even to the debate today, of the good guys and the bad guys, the cowboys and the crooks, the heroes and the culprits. The people I represent are identified and blemished as the crooks and the culprits of 16 June 1976. In all sincerely and honesty, it would be pure hypocrisy if I began toyi- toying on this day.

Laat my toe om vir die Huis ‘n voorbeeld te gee. Afrikaners was in die vorige eeu in ‘n bitter stryd teen die Engelse gewikkel, naamlik die stryd om bevryding van kolonialisme. Deur die jare heen het daar versoening plaasgevind, maar tog het ons nooit van die Engelse gemeenskap verwag om die oorwinning van Majuba saam met ons op 27 Februarie te vier nie. Sprekers in hierdie debat het geredeneer dat ons nou in ‘n nuwe Suid-Afrika is, dat almal vry is as gevolg van 16 Junie 1976 en daarom moet almal dit saam vier.

Dit sou dalk kon gebeur het as die resultaat werklik vryheid was vir alle gemeenskappe in die land. Ervaar ons nie maar net vandag ‘n ander vorm van taalimperialisme nie, met Engels as die oorheerser nie? Of dalk kultuurimperalisme, met die eie karakter en etos van skole en universiteite onder skoot nie? Word ons nie dalk gevra om die oorwinning teen minderheidsoorheersing te vier, terwyl ons dit bloot ingeruil het vir meerderheidsoorheersing nie?

Die datum 16 Junie 1976 vertel vir ons van kinders wat opgehou het om kind te wees. Dit vertel van die jeug in opstand en rebellie. Is dit nie lynreg die teenoorgestelde van wat die Skrif ons leer van seuns wat in hul jeug opgekweek moet word soos plante, en van dogters wat uitgebeitel moet word soos hoekpilare van ‘n paleis nie? Kan ons met reg die opstandiges in Warrenton verdoem? Kan ons Cosas se dreigemente om privaatskole te ontwrig verdoem terwyl ons die opstand van die jeug in 1976 verheerlik? Is dit konsekwent? Ek wil vandag maar net eerlik met almal wees: Die AEB kan nie rasend opgewonde raak oor 16 Junie nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Allow me to give the House an example. In the previous century the Afrikaners were locked in a bitter struggle against the English, which was the struggle for liberation from colonialism. Through the years reconciliation took place, but we never expected the English community to join us in celebrating the victory at Majuba on 27 February. Speakers in this debate have argued that we are now in a new South Africa, that everyone has been liberated owing to 16 June 1976 and that everyone should therefore celebrate this together.

This might have happened if the result had truly been freedom for all communities in the country. But are we today not just experiencing another form of linguistic imperialism, with English as the victor? Or perhaps cultural imperialism, in which the unique character and ethos of schools and universities are coming under fire? Are we not perhaps being asked to celebrate the victory over minority rule, while we have merely traded it in for majority rule?

The date 16 June 1976 tells us about children who stopped being children. It tells us about the youth in uprising and rebellion. Is this not in diametrical opposition to what the Scriptures teach us about boys who should be raised like plants in their youth, and about girls who should be chiselled out like corner pillars to a palace? Can we justly condemn the rebellious ones at Warrenton? Can we condemn the threats by Cosas to disrupt private schools while we glorify the 1976 rebellion of the youth? Is that consistent? I just want to be honest with everyone today: The AEB cannot get frantically excited about 16 June.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Speaker, the youth of 1976 who participated in those glorious events we are remembering in this House, are now men and women in their 40s and 50s. There is a sense in which the characterisation of the day as one for the youth puts these men and women in the margins. We put at the centre of our remembrance young people who were either not born or were too young to remember. And, unfairly, sometimes some of us try to compare the youth of today to the group of

1. Apart from the fact that the young people of today live in a different environment with its influences and imperatives, our society is not helping them to develop a greater sense of relevance in their own country.

It is this society that bombards our young with avalanche after avalanche of American music, films and other cultural expressions that have nothing except violence, decadence and conspicuous consumerism. When they switch on the TV or radio or open a magazine or newspaper, these are the images that hit them. At street corners and taxi ranks pornographic magazines are sold very freely. One will reap what one sows. We cannot feed our young people decadence and then expect them to be revolutionaries in the mould of the 1976 generation.

It is this society that is not giving our young people a sense of history by de-emphasising history learning in our schools. Through no fault of their own, many of them are not quite sure where we come from as a country and as a people. Contemporary young people are from the same proud stock as Steve Biko, Hector Peterson, Mangaliso Sobukwe, Chris Hani and countless others. They are not just weaklings who can do nothing except have a good time. They are smart enough to confront the problems of HIV/Aids, crime, poverty and ignorance. What they need is support from society in the form of depiction and propagation of our values on TV, on radio, in newspapers and magazines, as well as a well-run education system that situates their generation in history.

They need our society to fill their heads with knowledge, positive and relevant images of themselves, their country and their role in it. In this way, we will be developing their mental and spiritual strength and the grit necessary to confront the real national issues of today. [Applause.]

Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Speaker, hon members, this year we mark the 25th anniversary of the June 16 Soweto uprising. It is a time for reflection and forward planning. Unfortunately, the ANC has used it as an opportunity for cheap political point-scoring. [Interjections.]

Initially, living within the protected environment of my community in KwaZulu-Natal, the whole incident seemed quite far removed. But when I got to campus the next day and listened to our SRC urging us to join the protest and show our support for the unnecessary loss of life and police brutality, reality and anger began to set in, as did a sense of pride and admiration for those students who initiated the action.

Such a day indeed needs to be honoured. It is part of our history, albeit at the price of human tragedy. Those who sacrificed, did so for all of us, irrespective of race or political affiliation. However, as we commemorate the occasion, let us not only voice mere words of appreciation for the truly noble purpose these youths served. Let us acknowledge the worth and value of the role that the youth, both then and now, can and have played in fighting the scourge of apartheid and oppression. While paying tribute to those who sacrificed their lives in the struggle, let us also pay tribute to those who are alive.

As one of my esteemed colleagues has said, do something for the living in order to honour the dead heroes. The question we should ask is: what can we collectively as a nation do for our youth? We can empower the youth and unite to fight the scourge of HIV/Aids. This disease has the potential to wipe out a whole generation. It is reported that one in three teenagers in South Africa is HIV-positive. At one stage, South Africa had the advantage of witnessing this emerging epidemic north of its borders and responding to it proactively before the full impact hit home. Unfortunately, this window of opportunity slammed shut and many who were at high risk have already been infected.

Nevertheless, considerable opportunities still exist to prevent new infections among adolescents. The youth of today present us with many opportunities for targeted interventions which can shape the future of the epidemic. There are a number of reasons why focused interventions make sense, with the most important being that the youth are more open and amenable to the concept of learning sexual behaviour and using safe sexual practices to stay HIV-negative. Keeping as many youth as possible negative means more uninfected young adults to fill the skills gap and to take on the burden of parenting and other household leadership roles that the pandemic presents. Promotion initiatives can contribute to creating hope for the future.

In conclusion, let us not forget that it was the youth 25 years ago who laid the foundation of freedom for all, most especially the oppressed. To mark the occasion of June 16 this year, instead of playing games with human lives and politicising HIV/Aids, let us unite to fight the pandemic together so that we can give real meaning to the ideal of peace and reconciliation. If we do not, we may not have the occasion 25 years from today to celebrate the achievements of the youth of South Africa. [Applause.]

Mr K M N GIGABA: Chairperson, each historical period defines specific challenges of national progress and leadership. I personally belong to the generation of leaders for whom the achievement of democracy was the defining challenge. Thus did Comrade Nelson Mandela summarise the specific mission, challenge and achievement of his generation. Freedom in our lifetime was their battle cry, the single goal for which they were prepared to die. As long as the achievement of this mission was still outstanding, so long would all the new generations of youth after them have to renew the struggle in its pursuit, in line with the historical epoch they occupied.

Of course, Frantz Fanon had already said that each generation must discover its mission which it must fulfil or betray. Accordingly, as each generation discovers this mission, it must draw up its own tasks, fight its own battles, wear its own mantle and earn its own accolades. This it does not do for generations either preceding or succeeding it and neither can it claim the victories and accolades of these generations. It must make its own mark with which future generations will identify it.

In the tapestry of our struggle, the youth of 1976 will stand out illustriously, as having thunderously pronounced their mission, pursuing it with relentless zeal until the achievement of the defining challenge of freedom in our lifetime. Our society owes these young lions a permanent debt for their struggles and sacrifices. It has an obligation to explain to the youth of today what made the youth of 1976 commit such heroic feats of struggle as they did. A political lull had engulfed our people for decades, leading the apartheid regime to believe that it had broken the back of the ANC, quelled the revolutionary fires and oppressed the masses in a cowardly fashion.

A death-defying youth, unarmed in the face of deadly apartheid machinery, suddenly, in a flash, put paid to the regime’s mirage. For decades thereafter the urban and rural fields of our country would become theatres of struggle, consumed in a conflagration of struggle between the apartheid supremacists and the masses fighting for freedom and nonracialism.

Of history they say that those who ignore and disparage it, are bound to repeat its ills and mistakes. We revolutionaries know that heroic historical events, even if they result in momentary defeat, constitute a great well from which we frequently draw our pride, honour and inspiration to fight on ever towards final victory. During this, the 25th anniversary of that fateful but heroic day, we salute Hector Peterson, Steve Biko, Tsietsi Mashinini and all the generations of youth after 1976 for the sacrifices they made for our freedom and the supreme nobility of their efforts. Because of these modest efforts, and those of all our people, a new historical period dawned, defining new specific challenges of national progress and leadership.

In saluting the youth of 1976, we are reminded of the difficult and humbling challenge we face to define our own mission, draw in our own tasks, wear our own mantle and wage our own battles. No other generation of youth shall ever again be present in South Africa during this moment of transition from the tragedy of racial oppression to the glorious future.

Basically, we are called upon to carve and blaze our own new path. Thus do we proclaim it to be the mission of our generation to create and live in the new nonracial, nonsexist, democratic and prosperous society. Our forebears could only defeat apartheid and lay the foundation for a new society. But we, free from the rot and rabble of the past, possess the real possibility to propel our society to a new level, and thus accomplish the task of national liberation and social emancipation.

All these things we have said above have relevance for our understanding as youth of what we must do today, if we are not to betray our mission. For this to happen, we need the self-initiative and leadership of the youth themselves, and the critical but enthusiastic support of the nation as a whole. We need to raise the level of consciousness of the youth so that they act vigorously as a potent force for change. They must consciously wage a sustained and relentless fight against racism, sexism and poverty.

Attending our schools today, is a generation of South Africans growing up and studying in free conditions. This generation presents us with a real possibility to bridge the racial and gender divides and nurture it along nonracial and nonsexist lines. But instead of taking advantage of this really golden opportunity, we seem content enough to allow inertia to retard our progress in this direction as if we expect that these young people, whose parents still carry the entire baggage of the past, and still feed them this venom, as is the case in Vryburg, will automatically, and by themselves without the right nonracial and nonsexist nurturing, develop this nonracial and nonsexist consciousness and behaviour. In this regard, nonracial and nonsexist education must be made mandatory in all schools; and every public school must offer a least one African language as a mandatory course. [Applause.]

Schools themselves must be encouraged to embark upon academic social and cultural integration, while advantaged and disadvantaged schools must be encouraged to unite and co-operate and embark upon academic, social, sports and cultural exchange programmes, including the exchange of learners and teachers in order to allow for contact between learners and foster greater understanding, tolerance and co-operation among them. Of this Bram Fischer said in court in 1966:

Only contact between these races can eliminate suspicion and fear; only contact and co-operation can breed tolerance and understanding. Segregation or apartheid, however genuinely believed in, can produce only those things it is supposed to avoid - interracial tension and estrangement, intolerance and racial hatreds.

Indeed, President Mbeki stated two weeks ago in ANC Today that we should, as South Africans, acknowledge that to succeed in building the nation, we must walk on the two legs of national reconciliation and social transformation.

Bold measures must be taken by the youth today, free of the baggage of the past, to advance beyond their parents in the effort to build a single united, nonracial and nonsexist nation. Young men in society have a duty to advocate and support every effort to empower, develop and integrate young women in all the political and socioeconomic spheres of society. We must make it our responsibility to fight against sexism and gender inequality. To create a prosperous society requires that bold measures must be taken to economically empower the youth with jobs, entrepreneurship opportunities and skills through learnership and internship programmes.

While Government has introduced good measures in this regard, such as through the Umsombuvu Fund, it must be submitted that, given the enormous challenge that we face, more work must still be done. Further measures must be introduced to ensure that young people benefit from the programmes of black economic empowerment.

Parastatals must play a big role with regard to skills development and providing resources for the Integrated Human Resources Development Strategy. A special call must be made to the private sector, which possesses the largest volumes of productive capital, to make more real dedication to the challenge to address the plight of the youth through economic empowerment and skills development.

The economic plight of the youth of our country has forced them to embark upon many desperate activities to survive. But that will not be for long because they shall, henceforth, militantly fight for what is their right - development. When they march to the Sacob offices on Thursday, all over the country, they will be doing so because the owners of capital are not doing enough, despite all their profits and the productive capital they command, to ensure that all benefit in real terms.

Together with these challenges to address poverty, we will need to intensify our learning - to learn hard, to learn intensively and to learn permanently. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Motion agreed to.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 22 - Justice and Constitutional Development:

The MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Mr Chairperson, hon members, ladies and gentlemen … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Order, hon Minister! There are a lot of people walking around. Order! Hon members, this is an important debate. Will all those who are in the isles, please take your seats. Order! Are you ready now? Hon Minister, you may continue.

The MINISTER: thirty-seven years ago today, Nelson Mandela, Walter Sisulu and others were sentenced to life imprisonment for daring the might of the apartheid state. It is thanks to them, and indeed to the sacrifices and struggles of many others, that we are able to stand here this afternoon and make the remarks that I am about to make about our justice system.

When I reported to this honourable House last year, I identified the challenges my department had to meet for the 21st century. Today, four days from the end of my second year in office, I am happy to report on the progress made in meeting these challenges and the goals the department has set itself for the new financial year.

I would like to thank, at the very outset, the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development and, in particular, its chairperson, Adv Johnny de Lange, for the usual work of sterling quality and interventions which influenced legislation for the benefit of our country.

Allow me to turn immediately to the issues raised in my last report to this House. It is well known that our Government seeks to develop and strengthen our public-private partnerships in strategic areas. In this regard, I reported last year on our engagement of senior business executives in the review and finalisation of our strategic plans and changed management process within the department. One such business leader, Paul Heinemann, is in the audience here this afternoon.

I am extremely delighted to report excellent progress in this area. We have identified our strategic objectives and vision, and agreed to a radical restructuring of our department. A board of directors similar to that of a private company now advises the department. Serving as directors on the board are both executive and non-executive members, drawn from both the private and public sectors of our economy. The chief executive officer, who is also the accounting officer, and the managing directors of seven business units serve as executive members of the board. These self-contained business units have clear responsibilities, and are made accountable to the board for their performance. Among these business units are four line-function structures dealing with all court services, legal services, legislation and constitutional development and the Masters Office.

The four supporting business units which are designed to formulate policy at national level, are the office of the chief financial officer, human resources, public education and communication, and information and systems management. In the restructuring process my department has given prominence to the masters division by elevating it to one of its core functions. It is imperative that the operations of the unit in the provinces be restructured in order to pave the way for the absorption of intestate black estates. This needs immediate attention. I am extremely confident that the process we have embarked upon will yield significant service delivery benefits and, hopefully, serve as a model for the rest of our Government.

Before I step off this particular topic, I wish to report on the developments relating to the judiciary. The Ministry together with senior officials of the department met on 2 April this year in Cape Town with the President of the Constitutional Court, the Acting Chief Justice and other senior members of the judiciary to discuss policy issues relating to the structure and functioning of the courts. The commitment of the judiciary to transformation was indeed reaffirmed.

The meeting agreed on the following broad principles relating to the judiciary: The head of the judiciary should be the head of the Constitutional Court who will be the Chief Justice and will chair the Judicial Service Commission and perform other constitutional and statutory functions presently divided between the President of the Constitutional Court and the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Appeal. The Constitutional Court and the Supreme Court of Appeal will not be merged. The Labour Appeal Court will continue to be the final court of appeal in all labour matters. All impediments to the complete independence of magistrates should be removed.

The meeting appointed a task team consisting of members of the judiciary, officials of the department and the National Director of Public Prosecutions, to prepare a document on the Constitution and other laws which may require amendments in order to give effect to the policy perspective agreed upon. The task team will also attend to outstanding matters which require further discussion and consultation. A Bill to amend the relevant sections of the Constitution is already before Cabinet.

We are committed to continuing our focus on court infrastructure and the upgrading of our courts will remain a major challenge. Significant progress is substantiated by 56 new courtrooms at 19 court buildings which were completed during 1999, and a further 88 new courtrooms at 28 court buildings which were constructed during 2000. Most of these projects have been undertaken in previously disadvantaged rural areas of our country and will, undoubtedly, contribute to the goal of bringing justice closer to the people. The projects include five community safety centres founded on an integrated and one-stop service basis. In order to equip new buildings and to upgrade facilities of existing offices, an amount of R27,5 million was utilised for the services, furniture and office machines.

The following areas, in provinces with the highest overall levels of crime, have been identified and will be piloted: Alexandra and Katlehong in Gauteng; Inanda and KwaMashu in KwaZulu-Natal; Mitchells Plain and Khayelitsha in the Western Cape; and Mdantsane and Motherwell in the Eastern Cape. We also have recently refurbished and constructed seven new courtrooms in the west wing of the High Court in Cape Town. This project was launched last Wednesday.

The department’s record, with regard to financial administration and management, has been less than satisfactory to say the least. We have now put together measures that we believe will ensure compliance with the Public Finance Management Act. We now have proper budget management structures in place covering, among others, strategic management of budgeting; allocation of the budget down to the lowest level of expenditure; budget allocation, and the establishment of the review committee; and joint budgetary planning with our cluster partners.

Beyond this, our internal audit component, which is directly monitored by the Audit Committee, has been operating effectively. Furthermore, a fraud prevention strategy and a code of ethics have been finalised and a permanent fraud prevention committee was appointed. We have also set up a 24-hour antifraud and anticorruption hotline. In addition, I have called for, and we are in the process of establishing a costing and rightsizing unit to establish the cost from the zero-base to the delivery of an equitable justice system for all. Security in our courts has, in the past few years, deteriorated. Worse still, judicial officers, prosecutors and court staff have had their lives threatened. In view of the threats made to the officials in the Western Cape, special measures have been put in place in collaboration with the SAPS and intelligence agencies. As regards the general security measures in our courts, we have allocated additional resources to increase our security cover this year by 100%. We will, therefore, be catering for at least about 40% of our offices countrywide. We intend to intensify our efforts in the coming years.

We have introduced and implemented the national lower court management system project which has, as its aim, the separation of functions between the judiciary, administration and prosecution, in all magistrates’ offices. Certain administrative functions previously performed by magistrates will be carried out by administrative officials to allow court officials more time to concentrate on their judicial functions.

Great progress has been made in the training of administrative officials over the past year. An office manager’s pilot project was implemented at the Johannesburg and Durban magistrates’ courts. We now intend extending it to four other pilot sites. We envisage the scenario of having properly trained professional managers for all our courts. We, however, require funds in order to create and fill the posts which will certainly enhance court efficiency at all levels, and assist us in consolidating the independence of the judiciary.

Improving efficiency and skills at court level has been given priority. Since June 1997, six training programmes, sometimes referred to as ``fast- track training’’ were presented to aspirant prosecutors by Justice College.

With the assistance of the Law, Race and Gender Research Unit of the University of Cape Town, Justice College succeeded in developing and presenting various social context training programmes for departmental officials and magistrates. Justice College also started presenting two to three-day workshops dealing specifically with issues of domestic violence and maintenance.

During the past year we have trained 310 criminal court magistrates, 226 civil court magistrates, 534 prosecutors, 58 aspirant prosecutors and 77 interpreters. A total of 76 magistrates received specialised social context training, 190 received training on maintenance legislation, and 42 child welfare officers received training. A total of 104 officials of the department received training on the principles of administrative justice, 223 magistrates, 183 prosecutors and 226 clerks of the department received training on domestic violence.

However, it is a fact that 37,3% of our courts are not functioning well. It is no surprise that these courts, the remnants of the apartheid era, are situated in the rural areas of the former bantustan areas, particularly in the Northern Province, the North West province, KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and Eastern Cape. The following interventions are being implemented: Justice College has employed 15 tutors to engage on the job training for approximately 800 magistrates and 600 prosecutors who had never before received any formal training. The upgrading of court structures and the reprioritisation of capital works, for example in Tembisa, Daveyton and Malamulele, is also taking place. Integrated justice system court centres to deal with bottlenecks have already been implemented.

The past year saw my department working intensively to implement our e- Justice programme. This programme is designed to modernise our management systems and bring these in line with international best practice. The programme, in its current phase, involves the provision of basic electronic infrastructure and connectivity; the development of a court and case management system; and the development of our financial administration systems.

The Court Process Project, which deals with the development of our case and court management system, is our flagship. The system, which is a proof of concept, has been developed and a demonstration thereof was launched last week here in Parliament. We anticipate that the system will be installed as from 1 October this year.

The Awaiting Trial Prisoner Project was launched as a pilot project to address the excessively high number of prisoners awaiting trial, who are housed by the Department of Correctional Services. The objective of the project is to initiate collective actions within the criminal justice cluster of departments, to reduce the detention cycle time of awaiting- trial prisoners in custody. It is envisaged to introduce this initiative at 20 more sites throughout the country during the current financial year. The focus will be on those courts that are experiencing greater than average case backlogs.

The experience in Middelburg has shown that over the period December 2000 to April 2001 the following successes were achieved: The average court hours per day increased from three hours and 45 minutes to five hours. The number of cases finalised increased from 101 in December to 216 in April. The number of cases withdrawn due to dockets not being at court decreased from 20 to nil, this thanks to the dedication of our personnel who are, as is well known now, working even on Saturdays to ensure that we reduce these backlogs.

We have indeed also embarked upon setting up commercial courts. The first one was established in Pretoria and indeed has 13 specialised prosecutors. Since January last year 565 cases were registered, 123 of which have been investigated, 124 have been enrolled, 26 have resulted in convictions and 20 sentences have been reported to date.

The process between the South African Police Service and Justice is currently being simplified to achieve more effective results. Special commercial courts are also planned for Durban, Cape Town and Johannesburg. I am happy to announce that from 1 July this year a second specialist commercial court is to be established in Pretoria.

Government has introduced a number of measures over the past few years aimed at updating the arsenal of weapons available to fight specifically organised crime, such as the Proceeds of Crime Act of 1996, the International Co-operation in Criminal Matters Act of 1996, the Extradition Act and the Prevention of Organised Crime Act, which incorporated the Proceeds of Crime Act.

These laws introduced sophisticated new measures that have been used with some success internationally in the creation of money laundering and racketeering offences and the introduction of asset forfeiture. We have indeed also embarked upon improving the quality of prosecutions through general training to develop the skills of prosecutors, among other things.

As I have said, we are dealing with the case backlogs and indeed the prosecutors, the courts, the Correctional Services people, the magistrates, and even the judges are working on Saturdays to reduce these backlogs. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I have been trying to catch the attention of quite a number of hon members. This is a very important task of Parliament in respect of accountability. You should be holding the Minister accountable and listening to what he has to report. However, some of you have been continuing with conversations unabated for about 20 or 25 minutes, and I think that is unacceptable. May I now call on you please to pay attention to what is being accounted for in Parliament.

The MINISTER: As a cluster we are also embarking upon a project to address the question of the demand for the reduction of drugs. While we have indeed been successful, generally, in dealing with the problem of the importation of illicit drugs and narcotics into our country, it is clear to us that more needs to be done. We are therefore, as I have said, embarking upon this programme and we will soon be in a position to report progress in this regard as well.

As is well known, the TRC has now concluded its work and, as the executive, we have set aside slightly more than R800 million so that we can deal with the issue of final reparations. [Interjections.]

Mrs S M CAMERER: When?

The MINISTER: The hon member asks ``when’’. This is indeed going to be pretty soon. It will be remembered that we cannot do that until the President has received the final report of the TRC and has presented it to this House for debate by Parliament. This will be done as soon as the President has indeed received that report.

In anticipation of that we have indeed placed before Cabinet a series of recommendations regarding what is to be done by way of ensuring that there are reparations. [Interjections.]

Mrs S M CAMERER: Oh, that is next year.

The MINISTER: I am not going to answer that one. Mr Chairperson, the hon member should please shut up.

There is another question that we have to answer, and answer honestly and truthfully. That question is: As the TRC concludes its work, what do we do with people who applied for and did not get amnesty or people who simply did not bother to apply for it? [Interjections.] Maybe hon members will want to debate whether Adrian Hadland is right in observing:

We as a nation have to decide whether we want to spend millions, perhaps billions of rands, prosecuting those who have so far evaded justice, or whether we wish to use the resources for other pressing things like housing and health care. The Wouter Basson trial has apparently already cost more than R4 million.

In anticipation of such a debate and on the instructions of the President, I have quietly started consulting some of the retired generals who served in the South African Police Service and the South African Defence Force, as well as some of the leaders of the parties represented in this House. The views they are all articulating in this regard are interesting. [Interjections.]

Mrs S M CAMERER: You kept moving the deadline that you were supposed to have applied.

The MINISTER: Mr Chairperson, please restrain this howler. [Interjections.]

Without going into the detail of the recent judgment of the Transvaal Division in the matter of Hermanus Frederick van Rooyen and two others versus the State and seven others and venturing into public comment on a matter which is still sub judice, I need to point out that I have no intention whatsoever to interfere in judicial matters.

As indicated above, I have long initiated a process to look at all impediments which hinder the independence of the judiciary. It is my intention to promote the mainstreaming of the lower judiciary into a single judiciary. I have noted the contents of the judgment and will await the confirmation thereof by the Constitutional Court before considering its practical implications.

The demands and pressures to deliver in respect of our constitutional and legislative obligations and priorities have been financially challenging for my department. With the recent focus on consolidating our financial affairs we are now in a position to ascertain quite clearly our budget deficit in respect of urgent needs and minimum service delivery standards.

With the few seconds remaining I wish to pay tribute to the late Chief Justice Ismael Mahomed, Judge D A Kotze and Judge H O Van Dyk, as well as Pieter Theron, a Wynberg regional court magistrate, who have left our service. I also wish to thank all members of the Justice family, ranging from members of the South African Police Service to prosecutors, magistrates, judges, interpreters, court orderlies, Correctional Services and all members of our respective departments and the Ministers leading those departments. [Applause.]

Adv J H DE LANGE: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, members, ladies and gentlemen, I rise in this debate on behalf of the ANC in support of the Vote of the Department of Justice.

I am delighted to report to the House that I am able to do so after a thorough and exhaustive investigation into all the aspects of this budget over a period of many weeks. This investigation has included oversight functions of the committee, which included a week-long visit to courts and justice structures in at least four provinces, a week-long study tour to Germany and numerous public hearings with the whole justice family. I therefore express these views from a basis of thorough investigation and analysis and not generalisation and opportunism, as some of us are sometimes wont to do.

From time to time, our senses are assaulted by someone opining that the justice system - meaning the courts, the prosecuting authority and the masters’ offices - is totally dysfunctional, even that it is on the verge of collapse, or has totally collapsed. Such opinions make good and sensational headlines but are factually challenged, devoid of even the barest essential necessary to establish that rare commodity called truth.

Yes, it is true that our justice system and the courts face problems, even huge challenges, but our investigation has proved incontrovertibly that each day of the week, throughout the length and breadth of this country, all our courts are functioning, albeit with varying degrees of efficiency, dispensing that elusive concept of justice.

It may not always be perfect justice, but as Andreas Sergio stated, ``There are no perfect conditions for justice to take place’’. Transition, in particular, produces a special set of conditions for imperfect justice. The simple indisputable fact of the matter is that each and every day of the week each of our courts sits on average between 3,5 to 5,5 hours, dispensing justice.

To deny this, or to make light of it, is to deny or denigrate the very existence, the toil and sacrifices of the thousands of persons, including judges, magistrates and prosecutors, that make the wheels of justice, as creaky as they may sometimes be, inexorably turn every day. What remains for us to do is to dip our collective hats in salute and tribute to their sterling contributions and sacrifices and to double our efforts to make their tasks easier and more enjoyable in the future.

Looking back over the past seven years, the department has undergone many fundamental and far-reaching changes, encompassing transformational restructuring and rationalisation processes; and transforming the apartheid justice system, and the institutions underpinning it, into a justice system and institution serving a democratic and constitutional state.

This was always going to be a very long, painful process and not a single event. In the first seven years, the department has done much of which it can truly be proud. But, inevitably so, there have been occasions when it has not lived up to our expectations. I recall a few of the more memorable highlights. The department has successfully amalgamated 11 departments into one department of justice - 11 systems of justice into one system of justice; established nine regional courts to decentralise administration; and created a new senior management, including a director-general and a new departmental strategy, Justice Vision 2000. The equity and diversity profile of the department, although not yet complete, has gone a long way towards redressing the inequities of the past.

The department has had a very busy period drafting legislation - 80 pieces of legislation over seven years. There is also the establishment of various constitutional institutions, like the Constitutional Court, the Judicial Service Commission, the Truth and Reconciliation Commission, the Human Rights Commission, the Public Protector and the Commission on Gender Equality. Then there was the establishment of the National Prosecuting Authority, including the Scorpions and the Assets Forfeiture Unit, which have been established and have been exemplary in their performance. A new Legal Aid Board has been appointed under Judge Navsa, which has allowed us to turn around an institution which has been terminally ill.

However, as could be expected when such large-scale and all-encompassing changes are brought about, system failures are to be anticipated until such time as the new institutions, personnel, procedures and systems have had occasion to iron out all the hiccups. In the department this has been most apparent in the arena of financial management and administration. The reports of the Auditor-General and the financial statements of the department for the last few years reveal serious problems relating to the department’s financial administration. In a nutshell, the last Scopa report lists four of these shortcomings.

The first shortcoming is unauthorised expenditure. It was stated recently that 50% of all unauthorised expenditure in Government emanated from this department. The reasons for unauthorised expenditure have been analysed in detail and relate to goods or services received. The main reason, therefore, is that unauthorised expenditure takes place because of overexpenditure. In some isolated cases the correct procedures were not followed and this is not acceptable. There are certain measures that have been put in place to deal with this unauthorised expenditure and to avoid such unauthorised expenditure in the future.

The second problem concerns the deposit account, a trust account into which citizens pay their money, for example maintenance money, bail money, etc. Recently a 90% noncompliance finding was made by the internal audit unit regarding the deposit fund, meaning that no reasonable auditor would be able to offer an opinion on any financial statements prepared on the deposit account. It recommended that all the role-players should get together and establish a task team to ring-fence this problem and deal with it once and for all. I do not deal with the other two problems.

The year under review has been characterised by an in-depth assessment by the Minister and the Director-General of Justice relating to delivery and administration in the department. This assessment has culminated in the adoption, during the year, of a strategic direction for the department, which has been explained in detail by the Minister. However, I will remind members of a few of the points. Firstly, a board of directors has been established within the Ministry. Secondly, an executive committee, under the director-general, has been established in the department. Thirdly, the core service delivery functions of the department are established as business units, with a managing director heading each of them. Fourthly, the support functions of the department have been organised into business units in the same manner. Fifthly, some further specific measures have been necessitated in the financial management and administration arena.

As indicated above, for a number of years the financial administration of the affairs of the department has, in many respects, been declining. The position reached an untenable state in which management information was, in fact, misleading. The department was led to believe, until well into the second half of the last financial year, that it was due, once again, to exceed authorised expenditure estimates by approximately R180 million. In response to this advice, management took steps to limit expenditure. As a result of this, the current underexpenditure has, in fact, occurred which, when audited, is likely to exceed R100 million by far. Most of this amount has been committed and the Treasury has been requested to roll the sum over to the next year.

A rigorous assessment of financial processes has been completed. The redesigning and implementation phases of financial support services will complement the maturing needs of the business units as they progress with the implementation of approved business plans. Each business unit will operate according to an approved business plan that will see it setting itself up as a self-contained unit, independent of head office support services, as is the case with the National Prosecuting Authority. There are also other alternatives. The finalisation of the strategic direction of the business units, in respect of support services, has been treated as a priority matter.

With regard to the internal audit unit, the custodian consortium has been asked to extend their contract with the department for the current financial year. In August this year the internal audit team will be doing follow-up work on the salary Bill that they have done so far. It should be noted that the department is requesting funding to enable it to do selective in-depth forensic audit work, as a result of the internal audit findings. This is based on a 20% sample of suboffices in courts, in terms of which 90% of internal controls are not being performed by suboffice accountants. This needs to be addressed urgently.

In terms of the costing unit, the recent departmental budget reprioritisation task team and my committee applaud the Minister’s decision to call for a costing and rightsizing unit in the office of the chief financial officer. The objective is to establish a footprint for justice in South Africa which is designed, sized and resourced in accordance with prevailing crime trends, prosecutorial requirements and other relevant facts; and which is also able to meet the changing demands imposed by the application of both criminal and civil justice in the country.

This unit will calculate the cost of a geographically rightsized and standardised judicial infrastructure, or footprint, servicing established needs. This unit, in essence, will establish the cost from a zero base that the department will report against by way of a Base 80 technique in future years. The Base 80 concept has been devised by Mr McKenzie, the CFO, to empower decision-makers to gain insight on marginal activities that have been funded. More importantly, it will also inform, in advance, on unfunded priority needs. I will not deal with all the points. I am going to skip a few.

Costing from a zero base only needs to be done periodically. Thus, a move to activity-based budgeting, as called for in the PFMA, has commenced with the preparation of the Base 80 budget, which has crisply focused attention on the allocation of funding at the margin of available resources. This process has also highlighted the need for additional funding, and has shown where and why the department is tied to the prospect of unauthorised expenditure in the current year, or to a phased implementation of priority needs in future years.

Efficiency, effectiveness and productivity are severely hampered by a lack of resources. Modernisation is critically needed to deal with current volumes. Until such time that there is a significant capital injection, the department will be forced to rotate the focus on critical baseline matters, which will result in little attention being paid to the development of intellectual or tangible resources.

The department is playing a leading role in many of the modernisation processes in the criminal justice system cluster, including the Integrated Justice System, e-Justice, the Court Process Project, the DNS and other projects. The development of this technology platform is part of an integrated overall interdepartmental action plan to ensure that this significant investment is optimised. It should be noted, however, that the skills base of the department needs to match this best in class technology enabler.

The year under review has also seen the birth of successful initiatives, such as the impact of Saturday courts, in reducing backlogs. A reduction in absenteeism, the progress of the Court Process Project, the impact of the Assets Forfeiture Unit, anticorruption successes, the impact of the Scorpions, the launching of a whistle-blowing hotline, etc, have been celebrated on the one hand. On the other hand, matters such as the poor working conditions and remuneration packages of all staff in the department, including judges, prosecutors and magistrates, have continued to be of concern in relation to future sustainable excellence in service delivery.

A joint initiative is under way with the SA Post Office to explore the feasibility of establishing post office outlets within the courts. This initiative will focus on the deposit account system and will explore the possibility of opening the total Post Office network to transactions in this respect. This pilot project has the potential of changing some of the hardships faced by the poorest of the poor in effecting maintenance payments, and the initiative should be accorded the necessary priority to enable its piloting as soon as possible.

I will now deal with unfunded priority needs. The department has done an in- depth budget reprioritisation. As has always been the case, the department finds that the bulk of its expenditure is necessary to fund personnel costs. Over time, an unfunded backlog of priority needs has accumulated and is currently substantial.

This unfunded backlog is to be urgently unpacked with the Treasury as part of an exchange of perspectives in order that a way forward can be agreed to. By way of only a few examples, the following illustrates these needs. The sum of R41 million is to cover a shortage relating to non-funded salary increases granted to prosecutors and magistrates in terms of an agreement reached in 1999 between the Ministers of Justice and Finance. These salaries have never been funded.

The sum of R220 million is required to cover a shortage for the cost of employing 1 812 members of staff whose employment has been approved by all the regulatory agencies required by the state. These posts are part of the approved establishment but have never been funded. The Department of the Public Service and Administration has also approved the need for this establishment.

Thirdly, R160 million is required to cover a shortage, as the department is not meeting the legitimate remuneration entitlement of staff in the department, and the department believes that the funding of the shortfall will go a long way to addressing morale. These costs are, in part, covered by not filling approved funded posts which, in practice, adds to the morale and addresses capacity problems of the department. I have given a whole breakdown of all those figures, and how the R160 million is made up.

Legislation that is vitally important to the future development of this country has also not been implemented. One thinks of the equality legislation, the assessors, the maintenance investigators and so forth. The department needs funding, for example, for the Equality Act. Some R20 million is urgently needed for capacity-building activities, including the functioning of the Equality Review Committee, infrastructure for the courts and appointments that are required to give effect to this legislation. The need for maintenance investigators cannot be disputed. Depending on the priority accorded this matter, an amount of R20 million would provide for only one investigator only at 520 courts, at only senior clerk level.

The offices of the Master of the High Court are badly in need of modernisation in respect of systems and processes, and attendant capacity building. To address this matter, at least R50 million is needed, of which R15 million is absolutely critical. As far as public education and communications are concerned, a fraction of the budget goes to those in need, and further needs are experienced there.

From the aforementioned it can be seen that the call for the Treasury to workshop these needs with the department and the committee is necessary as a matter of urgency. I have gone into detail on these particular shortages, although there is a whole list of them and I can go on for another while, not to promote any one matter above the rest, but to illustrate that we cannot expect the department to deliver if we do not provide them with the tools to do so. I thank the hon Mike Ellis.

In conclusion, in relation to the new proposed activities of the department, I am convinced that the department remains committed to the requirement that the justice system must function well, for it remains a cornerstone of our new democracy, and upon it rests the achievement of key objectives such as legitimacy, stability and peace. Secondly, the department will respond, within the limitations of its resource base, to changing circumstances as they may arise and, thirdly, the proposed new measures could meet the various difficulties that the department has been experiencing, especially in the area of the declining financial management and administration capacity of the department.

In the past seven years, the foundations have been laid for the department progressively to take service delivery in the justice arena progressively, to increased levels of excellence. The future lies in converting thoughts into action. However, sight should not be lost of the fact that the implementation of these strategies developed over the past seven years, and were finetuned and amplified by these more recent developments, and the resultant transformation of the department will be a long and arduous process, rather than an event.

Lastly, I need to say a few thank yous. I need to say a very big thank you to our Minister and to our Deputy Minister for their excellent leadership, the advice that we are always provided with and the space they provide for our committee to operate in. Secondly, I need to give a very big thank you to all my committee members, particularly the opposition party members as well. I think we work together well as a team. We have our differences, we have our fights, but that is all within the family. I also want to thank you.

To the long-suffering ANC component, I can just say that he can get rid of me at any time he wants to, so I will not thank him too much. The department I want to thank absolutely for the tremendous work they do. We want to congratulate Adv Pikoli and his team for the excellent work they do. I thank the agencies, such as the prosecuting authority under Mr Bulelani Ngcuka, the courts under Judge Chaskelson, the Legal Aid Board under Judge Navsa, the Human Rights Commission under Dr Pityana, and so forth.

I want to thank you all, and those that I have not thanked must please regard themselves as thanked. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Could I ask some hon members on the far right please to join the main discussion?

Dr J T DELPORT: Mr Chairperson and Mr Minister, last year’s hearings by the portfolio committee established the fact that the Department of Justice faced a crisis. The hearings this year concentrated on measures to steer the department out of that crisis. I want to congratulate the director- general and his senior personnel for their realistic and frank approach, as well as the chairperson of the portfolio committee.

He set an example of critical probing and has extended the oversight function of the committee beyond today. In fact, the committee will receive further reports in the months to come. The committee knows that the DA will support all measures that will improve our legal system and its efficacy.

The appointment of Mr McKenzie of Business Against Crime as Chief Financial Officer, has made a unique impact. The way in which he has set out to rationalise, to introduce control measures and to reprioritise budget items, is the single biggest factor providing light at the end of the tunnel.

I wish to give a clear undertaking to the hon the Minister: Whenever and wherever he embarks on the correct route, the hon the Minister will find us supporting. May I also add, in all sincerity, that when we offer criticism and when we come forward with proposals, it will be worth the hon the Minister’s while to give serious consideration to these.

In hierdie gesindheid van positiewe betrokkenheid wil ek graag vyf belangrike sake aan die Minister voorhou.

Eerstens is daar die krisis in ons strafregstelsel. Dit is algemeen bekend dat ons tans ‘n agterstand van meer as 170 000 kriminele sake opgebou het. Verder is dit ontstellend dat daar meer as 250 hangende tugondersoeke teen landdroste is op klagtes wat wissel van pligsversuim tot kriminele skuldigbevinding. Die jongste nuus is dat landdroste aangekla word van betrokkenheid by bedrog van baie miljoene rande. Ons beleef inderdaad ‘n krisis.

Laat my egter dadelik byvoeg dat byna die helfte van alle polisiedossiere wat vir vervolging aan die aanklaers oorhandig word, teruggetrekword. Uiteindelik eindig net 10% van alle gerapporteerde misdaad in skuldigbevinding. As die strafsaak teen die beskuldigde egter eers begin het, eindig meer as 75% van daardie sake in ‘n skuldigbevinding. Die statistiek bewys dus onteenseglik dat die kern van die probleem nie by die vervolging lê nie, maar by die ondersoek - en dit is natuurlik minister Tshwete se verantwoordelikheid - en by die voorbereiding van die saak. Ons moet op daardie aspekte fokus. Ek wil positief wees. Ons het honderde toegewyde landdroste en aanklaers wat onder spanning werk, wat ekstra diens lewer in hul poging om ons uit die krisis los te ruk. Die departement is ook besig om ‘n groot aantal stappe te doen, soos deur die agb Minister en die agb De Lange uiteengesit is. Saterdaghowe is onder andere ingestel in samewerking met die private sektor, en dit is’n sukses. In twee en ‘n half maande is 2 100 sake só afgehandel. Ons wil egter tog aan die Minister ‘n aantal verdere stappe voorlê.

Eerstens, die begrotingsbedrag vir Justisie moet verhoog word. My kollega mev Camerer sal in detail oor hierdie aangeleentheid praat. Kortliks, ons het meer howe, meer aanklaers en, belangrik, beter administratiewe ondersteuningstrukture nodig. Die Kabinet moet oortuig word om aan Justisie ‘n hoër prioriteit toe te ken. As ons nie daarin slaag om ‘n strafregstelsel daar te stel wat vinnig en effektief strafsake afhandel nie, sal al ons pogings om die hoë ideale van ons Grondwet te verwesenlik tevergeefs wees. Die koste van die belegging in ‘n effektiewe stelsel sal verdwerg word deur die verdienste daarop, naamlik ‘n verhoogde vertrouensvlak in die toekoms van Suid-Afrika, hier en in die buiteland. Dit het ons broodnodig.

Administratiewe dissipline moet in ons stelsel gehandhaaf word. Ons kan eenvoudig nie langer onbevoegdheid, nalatigheid en onverantwoordelikheid duld nie. Die huidige dissiplinêre proses is omslagtig en het byvoorbeeld tot gevolg gehad dat, in sekere gevalle, landdroste vir jare op volle salaris geskors by die huis sit. Ons stel wetgewing voor wat ‘n streng gedragskode daarstel en ‘n spesiale hof instel vir vinnige en effektiewe afhandeling van tugondersoeke, soos dit die geval is in Duitsland. Aanklaers behoort ook onder hierdie wetgewing te val.

Ons voorstelle gaan verder. Dit is nie moontlik om die aanklaerskorps te inspireer om gedissiplineerd te werk as hulle in haglike omstandighede moet funksioneer nie, soos om met getuies in gange te moet konsulteer omdat kantore ver van die hof is, om sonder behoorlike faksfasiliteite te moet werk, en om nie behoorlike toegang tot ‘n biblioteek te hê nie. Ons rigsnoer moet wees: Gee hulle wat hulle nodig het, sodat hulle vir ons kan gee wat ons vra. Ons moet ook hierdie benadering volg ten opsigte van die vergoeding van lede van die regbank en die aanklaerskorps. Ons het die beste nodig en om die beste te kry, moet ons aanbod aantreklik wees.

Daar is ook aspekte van die hele proses wat verfyn moet word. Ek noem slegs twee: Die stelsel van pleitskikking of plea bargaining'' en die stelsel van openbare verdedigers ofpublic defenders’’. Die departement het reeds met so ‘n proses begin en ons vra vir die versnelling daarvan.

Laastens, die persepsie dat die stelsel die misdadiger bevoordeel en min gevoel vir die slagoffer het, moet gehanteer word. Ons kan nie langer ‘n stelsel duld wat toelaat dat ‘n veroordeelde deur ‘n administratiewe proses op parool vrygelaat word nadat ‘n bevoegde hof al die versagtende en verswarende omstandighede oorweeg het, en op ‘n gepaste straf besluit het nie. Die stelsel moet verander. Ons is gereed met voorstelle vir die fonds vir misdaadslagoffers en ‘n handves vir misdaadslagoffers. Hierdie is wat volgens ons betref die verbetering van die strafstelsel teweeg sal bring. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[In this attitude of positive involvement I would like to present five very important issues to the Minister.

Firstly, there is the crisis in our criminal justice system. It is common knowledge that we have currently built up a backlog of more than 170 000 criminal cases. It is furthermore disturbing to note that there are more than 250 pending disciplinary investigations against magistrates on charges which range from dereliction of duty to criminal convictions. The most recent news is that magistrates are charged with involvement in fraud totalling many millions of rands. We are indeed experiencing a crisis.

However, let me immediately add: Almost half of all police dockets which are handed to the prosecutors for prosecution are withdrawn. Eventually only 10% of all reported crimes end in conviction. However, once the criminal case against the accused has started, more than 75% of those cases end in conviction. Statistics therefore prove incontrovertibly that the crux of the problem does not lie with the prosecution but with the investigation - and this, of course, is Minister Tshwete’s responsibility - and with the preparation of that case. We should focus on those aspects.

I want to be positive. We have hundreds of dedicated magistrates and prosecutors who work under great pressure, who deliver extra service in their attempt to get us out of this crisis. The department is also involved in taking a large number of steps, as set out by the hon the Minister and the hon De Lange. The Saturday courts, among other things, implemented in conjunction with the private sector, are a success. Within two and a half months 2 100 cases have been finalised. We would, however, like to propose a few additional steps to the Minister.

Firstly, the budgetary amount for Justice should be increased. My colleague Mrs Camerer will talk about this matter in detail. Briefly, we need more courts, more prosecutors and, most importantly better administrative support structures. The Cabinet should be convinced that Justice must be granted a higher priority. If we do not succeed in putting in place a criminal justice system which finalises criminal cases quickly and effectively, all our attempts to realise the high ideals of the Constitution would be in vain. The costs of the investment in an effective system will be dwarfed by what it will be worth, namely an increased level of confidence in the future of South Africa here and abroad. We desperately need this.

Administrative discipline should be upheld in our system. We can simply no longer tolerate incompetence, negligence and irresponsibility. The current disciplinary process is tedious and has had as a result, for example, that in certain cases suspended magistrates were sitting at home receiving their full salaries for years. We propose legislation which would introduce a strong code of conduct and a special court should be established for quick and effective finalisation of disciplinary investigations, as is the case in Germany. Prosecutors should also fall under this legislation.

Our proposals continue. It is not possible to inspire the prosecutors’ corps to be disciplined in their work if they have to function in appalling circumstances, such as, for example having to consult with witnesses in the hallways because their offices are too far away from the courts, having to work without proper fax facilities and not having the necessary access to a library. Our guide should be the following: Give them what they need so that they can give us what we ask. We should also follow this approach with regard to the remuneration of members of the judiciary and the prosecutors’ corps. We need the best and to get the best our offer should be attractive.

There are also aspects of this entire process which should be refined. I shall mention only two: The system of plea bargaining and the system of public defenders. The department has already started with such a process and we are asking that it be speeded up.

Lastly, the perception that the system is advantageous to the criminal and has little feeling for the victim should also be dealt with. We can no longer tolerate a system which allows a person who has been sentenced to be released on parole through an administrative process, after a competent court has considered all the mitigating and aggravating circumstances and suitable sentence. The system should change. We are ready with proposals for the fund for victims of crime and a charter for victims of crime. This, in our opinion, is what will bring about an improvement in the criminal justice system.]

A second issue I wish to deal with is the integrity of the legal profession. The DA calls on the hon the Minister to heed our advice in this regard and refrain from overzealous interference by Government in the affairs of the legal profession. The department should rather assist the profession by creating a framework within which they can run their own affairs.

An organised, strong profession is an important cornerstone for any legal system, but coupled with this concept, however, goes the strong support of the DA for the idea of an ombudsman for the legal profession. The public simply must have recourse whenever they are treated unfairly or suffer as a result of incompetence or negligence.

A third issue which warrants attention is the enhancement of the integrity of the judiciary. The independence of the judiciary is a cornerstone of our democracy. The DA will at all times support appointments to the judiciary based on merit, in order that judges and magistrates, by their ability, qualifications and integrity, enhance the public’s respect for and faith in our judiciary. Of particular importance is the recent High Court decision on the position of the magistry and the need to remove it from departmental and ministerial control. Subject to whatever the Constitutional Court may find, this needs urgent attention.

About the idea of a single judiciary where magistrates will be called judges, we merely wish to state that the first step is to rid the magistry of the bad apples. In any event, I firmly support the notion that a position cannot give status to a person. A person gives status to a position.

One of the most serious criticisms that I level against this Government is the disrespect for court judgments by some members of the executive in the provinces. I have had quite a number of complaints and I have personal experience of one such incident, where an MEC simply ignored a court order. This is intolerable. This is the height of disrespect for the Constitution. I intend to engage the President on this issue.

The fourth issue is corruption. Suffice to say that corruption is eating away the backbone of the South African community. The Constitutional Court has ruled that the Heath Special Investigating Unit is an instrument of the executive. The actions of the Government, or more correctly, the inactions of the Government, have convinced the DA that we need an independent institution to deal with public sector corruption.

We believe that South Africa’s tarnished image can only be salvaged if we, through legislation, create a unit that is truly independent of the Government, functions outside of any state department or indirect state control, has a permanent structure with its own administrative and investigative staff, has inherent jurisdiction to investigate and prosecute instances of corruption and may act on its own volition and must act upon a matter referred to it by Parliament, the Public Protector or the Auditor- General or upon prima facie evidence produced by a member of the public. Government has up till now failed to demonstrate conclusively its commitment to fight corruption and to fight it even if it comes close to home. It is time to do so.

‘n Laaste kommentaar. Daar is sake wat dringend afgehandel moet word. Eerstens is daar die finalisering van die jurisdiksiegebiede van die hoër howe en die rasionalisering van die hoër howe. Die onsekerheid kan nie langer voortbestaan nie.

Tweedens is daar die kwessie van vergoeding aan slagoffers van die stryd van die verlede. Dit is steeds uitstaande. Die amnestiekomitee blameer die Regering en die Regering blameer die komitee en intussen kry mense swaar. Dit is nie goed genoeg nie.

Derdens meen ons die lang lewe van die WVK en die amnestieverhore het nou aan ‘n einde gekom. Ons bevlekte verlede en die ongelukkige gebeure wat uit die konflik gevloei het, moet nou uit ons sisteem kom, deur ‘n tydsbeperking te plaas op verdere vervolging.

Ek sluit af: Ubi ius prosperitas. [Waar die wet is, is voorspoed.]

Die Regering en die opposisie dra ‘n swaar verantwoordelik. Baie mense wat jonk was in die apartheidsjare vra die aanklagvraag: Waarom het julle niks gedoen toe julle sien dinge loop verkeerd nie? Ons moet waak dat dieselfde vraag nie eendag aan hierdie geslag gevra word nie, want so baie dinge loop verkeerd. Ons land se toekoms vra ons ernstige toewyding. Dit vra geloof. Daar staan geskrywe en baie mense sal verstaan as ek sê:

Al sou die vyeboom nie bot nie en daar geen druiwe aan die wingerdstok sou … wees nie nogtans …

[Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[A last comment: There are matters which should be finalised urgently. Firstly, there is the finalisation of the areas of jurisdiction of the high courts and the rationalisation of the high courts. The uncertainty cannot continue any longer.

Secondly, there is the question of compensation to victims of the struggle of the past. This is still outstanding. The amnesty committee blames the Government and the Government blames the committee and meanwhile people are struggling. This is not good enough.

Thirdly, we believe that the long life of the TRC and the amnesty hearings has now come to an end. Our tarnished past and the unfortunate events that have arose from the conflict should now come out of our system, by placing a timeframe on further prosecution.

I conclude: Ubi ius prosperitas. [Where there is law, there is prosperity.]

The Government and the opposition carry a heavy responsibility. Many people who were young during the apartheid years ask the accusing question: Why did you not do anything when you saw that things were going wrong? We should guard against the same question being put to our generation one day, because so many things are going wrong. Our country’s future demands our serious commitment. It calls for faith. It is written and many people will understand when I say:

Although the fig tree shall not blossom, neither shall fruit be in the vines yet …

[Applause.]]

Ms F I CHOHAN-KOTA: Chairperson, I am not sure why, but I am given half the time of the previous speakers to deliver my speech, but, taking a leaf out of the department’s book, I will certainly give it a bash.

Mr D H M GIBSON: She is twice as good as the rest of them together.

Ms F I CHOHAN-KOTA: I know. It should come as no surprise to members of this House that four out of eight speakers in the ANC will today speak about the courts. As a portfolio committee and particularly from the ANC side, we place a high premium on the efficient functioning of our courts. This is the point at which justice is delivered to our people. There are, however, many challenges to meet and the department is in agreement with that.

In an assessment of its administration of the courts, the department recognises the following weaknesses.

There is no sense that the court system operates from an assessment of the future or has a focus on development that is positioned to meet community expectations optimally. The location of courts is historically based, with some courts being underresourced and others underutilised. There appears to be a lack of responsiveness to the interests of people who appear in courts. Budget costing and allocations do not correspond with the actual requirement to perform the core functions of the department. All of these problems and more were experienced by members of the portfolio committee when we visited the four provinces of Gauteng, the Northern Province, the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal in April.

The new business unit court plan appears to be a good initiative. I say ``appears to be’’ because, firstly, it has not been finalised yet and, secondly, there appears to be some gaps in it and I want to address these matters during the rest of my contribution to this debate today.

It is going to be absolutely crucial to the success of the plan to harness the skills and experience on the ground, particularly in regional offices. Before our visits, some of us shared the view that regional offices were merely bureaucratic structures. Those of us who visited Gauteng were pleasantly surprised at the selfless commitment of the people who work there. Mrs Beryl Simelane, who is head of that office, deserves special mention. At the courts that we visited, she sometimes knew the problems of the courts even better than the chief magistrates themselves. We left convinced that the regional offices serve as a vital link between our courts and the department. The portfolio committee will look with keen interest to see how this interphase between the national office and the little court out in the western area is structured.

The plan of the department is to incorporate some forward planning in its restructuring. This is absolutely essential. But we must not underestimate the fluid nature of administering justice. To quote an example, the Kempton Park court has within its jurisdiction our biggest international airport. Many of the transcontinental crimes such as the illicit smuggling cases occur there and are often referred to this court for adjudication. Accused persons have appeared here speaking French, Spanish, Swahili and so on. This requires specialised interpretation by freelance interpreters who charge by the hour. As cases can range from two days to two months, the extent of the budget of that court cannot be accurately predicted. Therefore, the plan has to build in some elements of flexibility that take care of the extraordinary factors which are ever prevalent in the act of administering justice.

The plan is meant to take three years to operationalise. There are good reasons for this, not least of which is to ensure that things are in place. However, there must be a medium to short-term focus. In the medium to short term, there needs to be a review of all potential security flashpoints in our courts, a refining of the cluster system to ensure efficiency and workability, and a realigning of interdepartmental role-players.

On the issue of security, in Randburg we witnessed how friends and families of accused persons are able to pass cigarettes and other items to the holding cells from outside the court building. This is a major security threat and needs urgent attention, particularly because there have been some pretty nasty shoot-outs in that court. In Protea witnesses have to mill around in the central courtyard with accused persons or their families. Magistrates and prosecutors have to do the same at great risk to themselves. There are no holding cells and no safe storage for weapons handed in by visitors. This particular situation is quite dire. While it may take some time for the necessary infrastructural changes to be made, there must be some urgent intervention by way of security control.

Coming to the realignment with interdepartmental partners as far as district surgeons are concerned, for some reason Soweto still experiences problems with access to district surgeons while in Randburg we were told that there were no such problems. Is it not about time that we looked at the possibility of training general practitioners in this kind of forensic medicine and opening up this profession to allow access to this to be freely available?

There were some complaints that in some remote courts social workers were not readily available and this resulted in more people having to occupy holding cells. This is clearly unacceptable. It is with some relief that we look at the integrated justice centre concept which is presumably the blueprint of the plan. Mention is made of permanently stationed social workers. It is absolutely critical to have these people permanently located, particularly in areas where the presence of the social welfare department is limited or nonexistent.

We were told by some magistrates that they were experiencing problems with Correctional Services in getting awaiting-trial prisoners to court. We have called the director-general to appear before us as portfolio committee and we understand that a meeting will take place with all relevant role- players. We await with interest the outcome of this interaction.

The cluster system was presumably introduced to bring justice to the people. In many instances this does not happen, particularly in maintenance matters. Where there are opportunities to devolve these functions … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, I rise on behalf of the IFP to support the budget of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development before us today. The 2001-02 Justice budget is a simple and straightforward budget. It is tabulated in a manner that one knows what one has, can do and what one is short of.

The department has allocated an amount of R3,6 billion for 2001-02. These figures represent a quarter of the entire main national expenditure Budget of R258,3 billion. The R3,6 billion is R682 million more than the revised estimate for the 2000-01 financial year, which amounted to R3 billion. The main reason for this rise is the increased cost of R104 million for the administration of courts and R97 million for the National Prosecuting Authority. It also includes the R447 million for auxiliary and associated services.

Four new programmes need to be funded by the department. These include the Judicial Service Commission and the Magistrates Commission and the list goes on. There are nine others which I will not deal with right now because some of us are aware of these programmes. It is obvious that in order to meet the challenges that are facing the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development, we need more funds.

I will not deal with the figures here, but will attend to more serious matters and address these to the hon the Minister. The question of the salaries of judges, magistrates, prosecutors and interpreters is a matter which we seriously need to attend to. We want to make these posts attractive and ensure that we do not lose quality men and women who can serve the department.

The issue of maintenance seriously needs to be addressed. The Act is there, but it is not fully implemented. An example is that investigators are not available and it is not clear who should deal with maintenance in magistrates’ offices. We should also speed up the appointment of managers in court, as the hon the Minister has rightly stated, to do the administration so that magistrates, prosecutors and interpreters are in courtrooms by 9:00 am. Let us live in the real world of practical reality. Let managers manage, prosecutors prosecute and magistrates and judges hand down judgments. Once again, we can remind ourselves that justice delayed is justice denied. Let us attend to practical things and rectify perceptions that the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development is collapsing.

In respect of speeding up justice, here are some suggestions that we want to make. We recommend that South Africa should use trial by camera for awaiting-trial prisoners. Prisoners then do not have to leave prisons to be tried. They are tried where they are and magistrates remain where they are. Let us use modern technology to speed up achieving more effective results as well as the efficient processing of cases. This is necessary for one simple reason and that is that cases tend to drag on for a long time before they are finalised.

This burdens the Department of Correctional Services with providing accommodation to awaiting-trial prisoners, and also causes witnesses to lose faith and abandon their cases or disappear. The protected witnesses soon get tired of being kept away from relatives and friends, and rather seek release and abandon the case. The result is that the state has no case against such an awaiting-trial prisoner or prisoners when, in fact, these are hardened criminals. Is the Minister going to be the Minister who will finally bring the bottlenecks in Justice to an end? That is the challenge this Parliament gives to him.

In conclusion, let me turn to the subject of reparations. The issue of reparations worries me a lot. The department still has a budget of R800 million, left over from 1998, which they had not been able to spend. This means that the R190 million allocated for reparations in this budget will also remain unspent. An effective justice system is one of the pillars of democracy in the fight to maintain the rights of citizens, fighting crime and ensuring the orderly rule of law. It is therefore encouraging that the department’s budget has been increased by some R682 million.

It is encouraging to see that the budget increase will be spent on the improved administration of courts, particularly in the high and lower courts; better prosecutorial services by the National Prosecuting Authority; improved legal aid; and TRC reparations. It is, however, worrying that the department has not been able to spend more than a fraction of the R800 million that had been budgeted for 1998. It is therefore highly impossible that the R190 million allocated for reparations in this budget will be spent. Let us see some action now!

Ho mohlomphehi Letona la tsa Toka ke re, mokga wa IFP o otlela court process project monwana. Re hopola hore ha e ka ya atleha, ho tla ba molemong wa setjhaba. Ho sebedisa setshwantsho sa monwana thelevisheneng le monwana wa hae, ka tsela ya ilektroniki, ho tla thibela mashodu hore a seke a kgona ho utswa didokete. Ho lokela hore lefapha la hae le mafapha a mang ao a tshwarisaneng le ona, ba sebetse ka thata le ka matla projekeng ena, hore e tle e atlehe. (Translation of Sesoth paragraph follows.)

[Hon Minister of Justice, I would like to say that the IFP supports the court project. We believe that if this is successful, it could be of great importance to society. Using an electronic television monitoring system could help to combat the theft of dockets. It is important for this and other departments to co-operate with the Minister and that the should work very hard so that this project could succeed.]

Okuyikho ukuthi imantshi nayo koba sobala ukuthi ihlale nini enkantolo kanye nokuthi mangaki amahora ewasebenzile. Futhi, okuzokwenzeka ukuthi ummangalelwa omi phambi kwemantshi kuzoba kunguye uqobo, hhayi ufanakalo.

Ngithi kuNgqongqoshe amasokisi mawakhuphuke ukuze ezobuLungiswa zisebenze ngempela futhi ziye kubantu. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[This means that it will depend on how long a magistrate has been in court and how many hours he has worked. This will turn the accused into something real thing, that is not the imitation.

I would like to say to the hon the Minister that he must pull up his socks so that the Department of Correctional Services will really work and be of service to people. [Applause.]]

Ms N MAHLAWE: Mr Chairperson, hon Ministers and members of the House, section 55(2) of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa requires the National Assembly to provide mechanisms to ensure that all executive organs of state in the national sphere of government are accountable to it.

To maintain oversight of any organ of state, the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development has been engaged in a rigorous exercise so as to meet this requirement. The Minister, the director-general and his officials, all Chapter 9 institutions, and last but not least, the Judicial Service Commission and the judges, have come before this committee. The President of the Constitutional Court described their appearance as an historical event. These are the people who understand what this Government is about. This shows a commitment by all those who are involved, and a desire and an intention to provide an efficient and effective delivery of justice services to all, and to bring about a unified and transformed judiciary system.

For my purpose, I am going to concentrate on that most important vehicle of the judiciary - the courts. We have different court systems - the Constitutional Court, the Supreme Courts, magistrates’ courts, High Courts and regional courts - but I shall only concentrate on the magistrates’ courts. The importance of courts is shown by the fact that this programme consumes about 50,5% of the resources allocated to the department. The chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development understood this when he proposed that the committee should visit four provinces - KwaZulu-Natal, Gauteng, the Northern Province and the Eastern Cape - in April this year in order to assess the situation on the ground and also the progress of the department.

The committee made these collective observations. There is a dire need for the speedy rationalisation and realignment of courts to ensure an effective and efficient judiciary system. Duplication of courts in some areas, and the absence of courts in others, especially in the disadvantaged areas, hampers the work of the department and also of the judiciary. Computer systems and general equipment are sadly lacking and in some districts courts are nonexistent. Surplus equipment from other courts should be channelled to those that have been disadvantaged previously. There is an acute lack of accommodation and space in some courts, especially those in rural provinces.

There is a need for renovation and general maintenance of buildings. There is a need for training of court interpreters in languages relevant to the eight particular provinces and ongoing in-service training for staff. There is low morale amongst staff and officials owing to insufficient personnel and low salaries. There are gender imbalances in top management posts in some provinces. There are courts where there is not a single female magistrate or assistant magistrate. Of course, in the Eastern Cape, one area, namely Tsolo, was an exception. The senior magistrate is a lady. And in Umtata there is an equal number of male and female magistrates. This is commendable.

The most important and critical observation in most of the courts is their slow implementation or nonimplementation of the Domestic Violence and Maintenance Acts. The Domestic Violence Act of 1998 provides for simple, quick and cost-effective procedures to protect women and children. I do not have to quote statistics here to show how women and children are subjected to domestic violence.

The promulgation of this Act, however, has been a feather in the cap of the ANC, but there are problems with its implementation. Magistrates cited, amongst other things, a lack of budget funds implementation and a lack of trained personnel; nonavailability of magistrates and personnel after hours, as a number of incidents occur on weekends; women being shy to open up and come to give evidence; and a lack of support for victims and equipment for giving of in camera evidence by young victims.

Likewise, the implementation of the Maintenance Act has similar problems and, in addition, the problem of men who cannot be traced at their places of work. Others require DNA tests, but magistrates’ offices do not have funds for this.

However, it has to be mentioned here that after the committee had interacted with the department after the visits, it became clear that there were plans in place as a remedy in the short, medium and long term. These include constant monitoring of the implementation of the Act; creating public awareness and training service providers; training of SAPS officials, prosecutors, magistrates and clerks of courts with regard to both Acts; rolling out one-stop centres to deal with victims of sexual abuse; magistrates and personnel to be available after hours; and that local police will be issued with lists of magistrates on duty. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mrs S M CAMERER: Mr Chairperson, I would like to congratulate hon Mahlawe on her maiden speech, while the Minister’s speech raised more questions than it answered on issues like amnesty, the TRC reparations, and the continued nonappointment of the chief justice … [Interjections.] In this connection, I would like to point out to the Minister, that it is a year since the late great Chief Justice, Ishmael Mahommed, passed away and still the post remains vacant. I would have liked to tackle these issues in my speech, but I only have 10 minutes. This is the Justice and Constitutional Development Vote debate. We shall tackle that.

This budget shows that South Africa is not being well governed. The justice system sits at the centre of any society and people on the ground know, because they experience it every time they come across our justice system, that we are not being well governed.

The Department of Justice is a very obvious example of bad governance. The rising crime rate and the limping operation of our courts bear witness to that fact. This became very clear during the past three weeks of budget briefings to the Portfolio Committee on Justice. To his credit, the director-general was very frank about the management failings of his department, where the Auditor-General found a 90% noncompliance with the deposit account of that department. The director-general also acknowledged that head office does not know what is happening on the ground.

One of the reasons why it has become so clear that the justice management system, in the past six years, has been a disaster - and the Auditor- General has been saying this annually over that period - is that at last mechanisms have been put in place to do proper budgeting and financial control in the department through the intervention of Business Against Crime.

A Chief Financial Officer for the department, Mr Alan McKenzie, as other speakers have pointed out, was recently appointed on secondment from the private sector. He was chosen and his salary is being paid by Business Against Crime. This is, surely, a unique arrangement, and Business Against Crime deserves our thanks. But I guess crime has become such a problem for business that they just could not take it any more. Hopefully, the department’s new board of directors on which these businessmen serve will make a difference. The Minister also deserves credit for taking this initiative.

Mr McKenzie’s new budgeting system, which has got to the bottom of the department’s various failures, holds great promise and, hopefully, will soon begin to bear fruit. Example of the department’s failure to budget properly, which the new budgeting process has brought to light, includes the R41 million for salary increases which have applied to prosecutors and magistrates since 1999 but for which there has never been proper budgeting, and another shortfall of R133 million, also relating to personnel, who are already in employment, but have never been budgeted for. Not to mention the incredibly wasteful expenditure relating to the R187 supernumerary drought relief workers in the Northern Province who should never have been employed by the Department of Justice and have cost the department R100 million.

Since 1994, the Department of Justice has been notoriously underfunded. The new process has now brought to light the full extent of this by showing a total of unfunded current priority needs, referred to by other speakers, in excess of R700 million. Shamefully, included in this figure is a shortfall, in the personnel budget, of R150 million relating to last year’s merit increases, bonuses, overtime pay, leave gratuities and so on. These amounts have been earned and promised, but have not been paid to the officials of the department concerned, because they were not budgeted for.

Naturally this sort of backlog is a big contributory factor to the low morale among staff in the department. We, in the DA, believe that this is outrageous and the Minister should take personal responsibility for finding the funds, so that these amounts can be paid to the staff in his department with the shortest possible delay. The new budgeting process has clearly demonstrated, as the department’s own budget document states, that there is ``a dire shortage of posts which has resulted in severe personnel shortages, especially in the courts, causing serious backlogs in cases’’. The need for 1 812 extra posts was identified four years ago, and that includes a shortage of 189 magistrates, 274 prosecutors and 227 interpreters. The total cost of this amounts to R220 million and has also been identified as an unfunded current priority need. In fact, this budget demonstrates a shocking 90% underfunding of human resources requirements.

Initially, there was a mere 4% increase in the budget for our courts reflected in this department - the core function of the department. In other words it was a decrease in real terms. We have been told that Mr McKenzie’s reprioritising exercise is going to change this. But the Minister must tell us what he is going to do about that.

These enormous and very specific shortfalls in what is required for a reasonably functioning court system have now been demonstrated in accordance with the best accounting practices. He has the ammunition, he sits on the Cabinet committee that makes these budget decisions and justice must be given a higher priority. The Minister has no place to hide anymore. Minister Manuel and the Treasury can no longer be blamed. The facts are there for all to see, in details, and the Minister himself must take action.

The fact that the department is grossly underfunded and under-resourced is an important contributory factor to South Africa’s very low conviction rate in criminal cases. Perpetrators of serious violent crimes have only a one in 50 chance of being caught. A recently completed research showed that out of the 2,2 million crimes reported to the SAPS in 1998, only half reached the courts. One can point a finger at the SAPS for that failure, but of the remaining cases nearly half again were withdrawn in court. And of those cases that were heard, only 203 000 resulted in a conviction. This is a rotten record for our courts. [Interjections.]

Another result of this under-resourcing is the snail’s pace of both criminal and civil cases through the courts. The huge backlogs at South Africa’s busiest civil courts, for example Gauteng which handles nearly 40% of all civil cases, are such that one does not want to be a plaintiff anymore. The lengthy delays favour the defendants, as the Minister knows full well, so that one can truly question whether the citizen’s right of access to the courts is not being undermined by this bad governance.

The average time that an accused spent awaiting trial was 76 days in 1996. This has now nearly doubled to 131 days. Approximately 50 000 awaiting- trial prisoners - which is up from 29 000 in 1996 - have led to gross overcrowding of our jails. We experienced the extraordinary spectacle during the budget hearing of the President of the Constitutional Court no less, describing to our committee the shocking conditions of awaiting-trial prisoners in Diepkloof prison and making an impassioned plea for the department to do something about it. The Minister must tell us whether he as taken this to heart.

A further example of bad governance typified by this department is the failure to implement legislation that was rushed, with much fanfare, through Parliament, often because of the failure to cost and budget for the implementation, as has been made very clear through this new budgeting process.

The typical example that is being quoted is the Maintenance Act, which was passed three years ago, which provided for the appointment of maintenance investigators. This was billed as the key to the success of a new deal for women. But not one has been appointed. The R35 million needed for this purpose is listed in the new budget as an unfunded priority need.

To add insult to injury, it seems that the National Director of Prosecutions has withdrawn all prosecutors from the maintenance courts in spite of the provisions of section 4 of the Act that stipulate that prosecutors are the maintenance officers at courts. It seems now that typists and clerks have been left in charge. The excuse given is that there are not enough prosecutors and no money to hire more. But surely this ultra vires administrative action of the national director is not good enough and must be rectified forthwith.

Again with regard to the equality courts, they have not been implemented, as has been pointed out. There are many unbudgeted and unimplemented aspects of the domestic violence and witness protection laws. All in all, it makes for a really sorry picture.

On the positive side is the appointment of Mr MacKenzie and the introduction of proper budgeting and financial controls and, of course, a second positive factor is the disarming candour of the Minister and the frank admission of his officials, for the second year in a row now, as to the low morale in the department, the dilapidated state of the courts and the underresourcing, and the sincere, though thus far unsuccessful, attempts to rectify matters. [Time expired.] [Interjections.] Mr G B MAGWANISHE: Mr Chairperson and hon members, I can say with pride that despite the challenges we face we have begun the road to the mountain top. Some of us might not be there when we reach the mountain top, but I know that we will get to the mountain top.

When we have achieved our economic, social and political freedom, we will be able to hold hands and sing a freedom song, ``free at last, free at last’’. This is not an easy walk. We are faced with many challenges, but they require of all of us to make an extra effort to get there.

I stand before my fellow South Africans today to honour them. I honour those South Africans, especially young people, who have contributed their services free of charge, without expecting any remuneration. They derive satisfaction from serving their people. I honour them for their determination to reach the mountain top. It is this determination that makes me proud to be a South African.

There are, however, distractions on our road to the mountain top. They are meant to appeal to our emotions so that we concentrate on them and lose focus on what we want to achieve as a nation. We cannot ignore them as they violate the right of our people to a free and secure environment. They also represent the fears of those who are still crying to go back to the past. We cannot, as a nation, accept that a small group of racists can just kill and beat black people, and paint them white, just because they happen to be black.

It is painful that most of these people who are being harassed and victimised are poor rural people, some of them women and young people. Let me thank the media for continuously exposing these acts of terror. May the souls of Tsepho Matloga and others rest in peace. I would like to say to those who face race-related attacks daily that the nation is with them in their pain. The forces of evil cannot rule forever.

At the centre of this road to the mountain top is a justice system that is efficient and dedicated. We cannot have that unless we have good human resource management. Like the rest of our country our Justice department is transforming itself to meet these new challenges.

Some people say that to achieve results we need more resources. I think that is true. But I also think that better management of resources is important to yield better results. One does not have to solve some of the problems by allocating more money. There is a magistrates’ court in the Northern Province, in the district of Malamulele, under Magistrate Chauke, deep in the rural areas, that has very few resources. It is one of the best performing courts in that province. There are no backlogs in that court. There are, however, courts in urban areas with better resources which perform more poorly.

The Justice department is embarking on a process of making sure that magistrates concentrate on their judicial functions and administration officers are employed to manage courts. This will make magistrates concentrate on what they are trained for. New procedures have been adopted for the appointment of magistrates. These came into effect on 1 January

1. This procedure makes provision for the advertisement of regional magistrates’ posts in the media. It ensures that a wide range of suitable candidates can apply for appointment to positions.

The Justice department deals with people who are sometimes very traumatised and vulnerable. It is important that training is intensified, especially amongst the presiding officers. This training should emphasise social context analysis, which is important when dealing with bail cases.

Since 1994 more blacks and women have been appointed to senior positions by the department and by the prosecutorial authority. We need to commend the leadership of the department and prosecutorial authority for that and urge them to do more.

We also need to thank Business Against Crime for working with the department to improve the financial management of the department. Their contribution is highly appreciated by their fellow countrymen.

When we visited Potgietersrus we were impressed to find that the community of that area participated in the discussion of issues that related to justice with court officials. We hope that this can be done throughout the country. Justice matters are not matters only for the lawyers, but for all of us. There can be no better life for all unless there is justice for all. [Applause.]

Mr J T MASEKA: Chairperson and hon members, we are seven years into our democracy, but little has been done to redress the imbalances of the past. [Interjections.]

The Justice department is not doing enough to make justice accessible to the people. Many people have to travel long distances to court, passing some courts that are nearer to their homes, because of the legacy of the past. For example, people who stay at Bethani in the North West have to travel through Brits to Garankuwa, which is far away from their homes, because of the areas of jurisdiction. This is not the only place where people have to travel far from their homes to go to court while passing other courts. One may take Potgietersrus as an example.

Witnesses have to pay double for transport to Garankuwa and in turn they must be paid witness fees. In some instances these witnesses cannot attend court because of a lack of transport money, which result in cases being withdrawn due to a lack of evidence because of the absence of witnesses, or sometimes the case is delayed, causing a backlog, as courts do not function as they are supposed to. Witnesses are sometimes late for court and cause unnecessary postponements. The UDM urges the Government to restructure courts as a matter of urgency to make justice accessible to all people in South Africa.

Another factor affecting the justice system is the shortage of prosecuting personnel and related resources such as clerical staff, offices, stationery, etc. In some instances prosecutors have no offices and consult with witnesses in courtrooms in the presence of attorneys and the public. Enough prosecuting personnel and clerical staff should be employed without further delay. Offices and office equipment should also be made available.

It should also be noted that some members of the public have volunteered to do clerical work and also to help with the payments of maintenance money, and they have no proper training. This is a matter of serious concern and the result of this type of practice is the recent conviction of a volunteer for theft of maintenance money at the Garankuwa magistrates’ court. In most courts these volunteers who have no proper training attend to family violence cases and this needs urgent attention by the Justice department.

It is also a further concern to the UDM that mothers and other people who collect maintenance and child grant money from magistrates’ court offices are exposed to the weather. They stand in long queues without shelters for a long time, if not the whole day, before they can be helped. Court holding cells are unhygienic and too small to keep large numbers of prisoners.

The UDM commends the men and women in the Justice department, in particular those who volunteered to work without pay on Saturdays in various courts, to reduce the backlog of cases. This has led to good results as cases are being finalised speedily. The UDM supports the budget and demands that all vacant posts in the Justice department should be filled with immediate effect. The UDM supports the Vote. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, please lower your voices.

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, colleagues, comrades, friends, ladies and gentlemen, and guests of the Justice department in the House, before I continue with the main body of my speech I would like to remind this House that it is Mrs Camerer’s legacy as a former and failed Deputy Minister of Justice that we are busy mopping up, and thus the mess. [Interjections.] [Applause.] I now continue.

It is now widely understood that the department’s key overall objective is to achieve a just and equitable society in which all have equal access to justice. We also all know that this requires a continual process of substantive legislative and judicial reform. As in every department, the budget process is therefore both a tool and a constraint. We must link the budget and the programme of transition in such a way that we make the most of what we have. Prioritisation is never easy when needs are pandemic. But these choices have to be made, and they must, of necessity, reflect the policies that inform and guide the chosen implementation strategies.

The transformation of our department and, indeed, of the entire administration of justice is based on the understanding that if we are to succeed in achieving our objectives, those most excluded from access to justice in the past must be the primary focus of our attention. The budget tool must be used to their advantage. In terms of human resources and human capital, we will continue to pursue a policy of affirmative action in striving to achieve a fully representative judiciary and justice system. Transformation objectives will remain elusive until we achieve a judicial and justice system that is both responsive to and aware of the context in which that system is located and operates. The same must apply to the allocation of financial resources.

In terms of capital expenditure, we will continue to concentrate on providing facilities that enhance access to justice in those areas that have, until now, failed to benefit from infrastructural development and the provision of even the most basic services and facilities. The empowerment and development choices that we make now are not merely a response to political and constitutional imperatives. They are good business, they reflect sound management decisions and practices, and promise to improve the quality of life for all citizens, freeing the potential of each person.

We remain convinced that the development of the most disadvantaged within our communities will empower and strengthen our society as a whole. In this vein, we have what I refer to as the practical implementation handbook of the Constitution. The national action plan for the promotion and protection of human rights provides the practical blueprint for developing and entrenching a rights-based Government founded on fairness, transparency and equity.

As the lead department in this process, Justice has sought to strengthen the co-operative and interactive nature of the project, with input and participation from every Government department. To this end, we have set in place a fully interactive website that allows for human rights monitoring and reporting throughout government. The National Action Plan for Human Rights requires collective intergovernmental action to ensure that our fundamental human rights, as set out in Chapter 2 of our Constitution, are fully developed and implemented, and that these rights are rigorously maintained. After assessing the project for overall performance, the Finnish government has generously agreed to renew funding for two more years. By that time the programme will be fully integrated into our departmental budget for ongoing implementation.

As the department continues to give effect to the principle of integrated governance, joint programmes with institutions outside the department have contributed to some noteworthy service delivery successes. In this regard, the Legal Aid Board’s delivery of 60 justice centres within a three-year timeframe will have a profound effect on access to justice. Reflecting a real break from our judi-care past, these justice centres will provide assistance to the poor and indigent in both criminal and civil matters.

Two weeks ago I opened a joint Legal Aid Board and justice college workshop, aimed at developing the skills of justice centre officials working with children who are in trouble with the law. The resounding success of this workshop has necessitated that justice college mainstreams this programme into its already wide range of training and education courses.

Another example of improved service delivery is at the Phuthaditjhaba justice centre. After just 30 days in operation, this centre has taken on over 300 cases. This is an astonishing achievement, especially in view of their exceedingly limited marketing budget. Word of mouth has spread the news for the people of Qwaqwa, and access to justice has become a real and living right.

To further improve the administration of justice in Qwaqwa, the department is assessing the feasibility of establishing a small claims court in Phuthaditjhaba. At this point I would like to thank all those private practitioners who serve free of charge in our small claims courts countrywide. Their contribution to the administration of justice is invaluable. This example of private-sector co-operation with Government is proof indeed that ventures of this kind enhance our capacity to deliver improved service on a sustainable and enduring basis. In response to the special needs of women and children as victims and survivors of domestic and sexual violence, the department, in a dedicated programme of specialised service delivery, has over the past two years established 19 fully functional sexual offences courts countrywide and a further 12 are planned for the upcoming financial year. We have developed extremely sophisticated protocols for dealing with victims and survivors of sexual offences, and will continue to perfect best practice standards for this important area of service delivery.

The Thuthuzela care centre, located at the Jooste Hospital on the Cape Flats, brings specifically trained investigators, prosecutors and forensic medical practitioners together, as soon as possible after the violation has been reported, at any of the three police stations servicing the area. This integrated and cross-sectoral response to the problem has resulted in an 80% prosecution rate for the centre. The astonishing aspect of this project is that it has required a minimal injection of infrastructure and capital. The project is built on the resolve of the participating investigators, prosecutors, doctors and community volunteers who make it work. Similar projects will be implemented during July at the Indlaza care centre in Umtata, and at the Cecilia Makiwane care centre in Mdantsane.

We recognise that until the roll-out programme for sexual offences courts is complete, access to these specialised services will be limited over the short to medium term. Accordingly, the department has provided 178 courts with closed-circuit video equipment and 31 with one-way glass testimony rooms for victims of sexual and other abuse. In this area of work much remains to be done, and the number of victims who still suffer secondary victimisation in our courts is a matter of extreme concern to the department. Our response has to be and is increased capacity-building through ongoing training and education, and an incremental plan of infrastructural delivery.

Before I move on, I must make special mention of the sexual offences and community affairs unit in the National Prosecuting Authority. They have made huge strides in co-ordinating and developing an intersectoral strategy that covers both preventive and reactive management mechanisms.

The new domestic violence legislation, implemented since December 1999, has provided a real remedy for children, women and men who become victims and are survivors of domestic violence. In fact, the response has been overwhelming and our courts can barely keep up with the demand. In the Wynberg magistrates’ court in the Western Cape alone, there were 5 706 applications during the year 2000. For 2001 the number of cases currently stands at 2 778, although this number includes applications from the Philippi court.

We are only halfway into the year, so the prospects are that this number will double. We will continue to provide ongoing training and education and expand the number of service delivery points. However, while our courts continue to experience the current levels of staff shortages, the challenges for improved service delivery will remain only partially realised.

Now, turning to family courts, the implementation of five provincial family service centres over the past three years has laid the foundation for determining best practice in this important branch of our legal service provision. Inadequate staff levels, again, severely constrains service delivery in these courts, but the importance of the work being done there cannot be ignored. As the structural and institutional parameters for this project are finalised, the department plans to extend current services to the remaining four provinces, while long-term prospects for these centres will see their gradual expansion into the lower courts’ system.

I would now like to spend a few moments on our directorate of children and youth affairs, which was established last year to oversee the implementation of section 28 of the Constitution, the Convention on the Rights of the Child, the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child and other relevant human rights instruments pertaining to children.

During the recent Child Protection Week, the directorate launched the interim national protocol for the management of children awaiting trial and a plain language guide to the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, which was ratified by South Africa in 1995. The latter, we hope, will empower our children to claim and realise their rights and to gain an understanding of the responsibilities of being an active participant of our constitutional democracy.

Maintenance is another important responsibility of the child and youth affairs directorate. In conjunction with the revised service delivery programme, we will strive, over the next two years, to provide an electronic maintenance system that allows people to pay and collect maintenance at a significant number of outlets outside our courts. As mentioned by the hon De Lange, negotiations with the Post Office are under way to investigate the feasibility of providing payment and collection points at their many service centres. However, we cannot improve this system on our own. As a community, we must begin to name and shame those parents who wilfully neglect their families in this way.

In conclusion, let me return to the overall issue of targeting the impact of our budgetary tools on those who are in greatest need. As we develop and improve our management information system, we will be able to sharpen this focus even further. We will continue to ensure that our resources are directed at relieving the plight of the poor and the marginalised, especially women and children.

The recent appointment of our Chief Financial Officer, and the planned establishment of a budget project office and a costing centre augur well for our future. I am confident that our budget will become an increasingly sophisticated mechanism for achieving change where it is most needed and where those most in need will derive most benefit.

Finally, I would like to thank the Minister for his encouragement and support. So, too, should my adviser and the officials in my office be thanked for their support and unflagging dedication. My thanks must also go to the director-general, the deputy directors-general, the National Director of Public Prosecutions and the entire Justice family.

A special message of thanks must also go to the nonexecutive members of our board, who assisted without any remuneration in guiding the department through its restructuring process. They have added real value to our processes and we look forward to a long and enduring partnership. I would be failing in my duty if I did not recognise the sterling efforts of the Portfolio Committee on Justice, and in this regard, I would like to make special mention of the committee chair, Adv Johnny de Lange. [Applause.]

Mr S N SWART: Chairman, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, it is undeniable that the judicial system sits at the very centre of a nation’s affairs. As Christian democrats, we understand that the purpose of government is primarily to punish and restrain evil, to protect life, liberty and property, and to provide justice for all people, using God’s Word as the standard.

Last year, I stated that the South African criminal justice system was struggling to cope, and that without an adequate system of law enforcement and criminal prosecution, the danger existed that the high levels of crime and violence would become institutionalised in the social fabric of our society. I am more convinced of this truth today, despite the laudable attempts by the department to address shortcomings.

Mr Ngcuka, the National Director of Public Prosecutions, has stated that:

It should be quite clear to an offender that if he commits a crime, there is a very strong possibility that he will be arrested, tried, convicted and sentenced to serve a very substantial period of the sentence in prison.

This, unfortunately, is not the case where there is a perception that crime does pay, and in the event that an offender is apprehended, there is a good chance that the case will be withdrawn. Where there is sufficient evidence to warrant a prosecution, the case is placed at the rear of an ever- increasing backlog of court cases.

Whilst we applaud the attempts by the department, the judiciary and prosecutors to address court backlogs, particularly the Saturday court initiative, we note with alarm that the backlogs in district and regional courts have increased. It is very apparent that we require penal reform in our country. In this regard, the concept of restorative justice should be more fully embraced. The appeal of the restorative justice model, particularly when considered against the huge backlog of criminal cases, is the acceptance of blame by the offender, which is almost a plea of guilty, and the recognition of the need to make restitution to the victim.

The restorative justice approach, which incorporates, inter alia, diversion, which keeps youngsters out of jail, is also intrinsic to the long-awaited child justice Bill and we as the ACDP would in this regard inquire from the hon the Minister when the portfolio committee can expect the child justice Bill to be tabled, and whether it will be fast-tracked.

The appointment of Mr McKenzie from Business Against Crime, with his business management approach, appears to be showing dividends. For the first time business costing units will be employed to ascertain whether the department is receiving value for money, and is in turn providing value for money to the public.

We trust that Mr McKenzie’s budget for success, costing and business units, and business managers will result in a financial turnaround. We commend the director-general and the department for this step. It is for this reason that, notwithstanding the difficulties and challenges I have set out above, the ACDP will support this Vote. In conclusion, I wish to commend our chairperson, Adv Johnny de Lange, for the hands-on approach adopted during this budgetary process. I do not think that any other portfolio committee has considered its department’s budget in such detail as the Portfolio Committee on Justice has done over the past number of weeks. [Applause.]

Mr J S MGIDI: Mr Chairperson, the generally impressive sociopolitical and economic development of our country since the advent of democracy has unfortunately been marred by the simultaneous increase in crime, especially violent and organised crime. I can tell the hon Sheila Camerer that this ANC Government, Madam Sheila Camerer, was the first, and still is the first, to declare that the current levels of crime in this country are unacceptable and disturbingly high. There is no doubt that all of us and all of our communities agree in unison that this scourge of crime must be dealt with decisively as a matter of urgency.

Crime is one issue which needs to be lifted above all political, racial and class considerations. I would, in fact, hasten to say that if there is any issue with regard to which there is a need for what the President has referred to as ``unity in action for change’’, it is the fight against crime. In our collective endeavour to fight crime, conscious recognition by all of us of the centrality of an effective, efficient, swift, impartial and credible justice system becomes particularly paramount.

This visionary ideal finds expression in, among other things, section 179 of our esteemed Constitution, in terms of which the National Prosecuting Authority was established and its powers clearly defined. Our Constitution, the National Prosecution Authorities Act, the Prevention of Organised Crime Act, the Firearms Control Act, the Domestic Violence Act and many other pieces of legislation all constitute the fundamental legal manifestation of a country’s and a government’s commitment to combating crime.

Giving impetus to the ideal of and the Government’s commitment to creating a crime-free society, the President in his state-of-the-nation address earlier this year had this to say:

We want to arrive at a situation where those who commit crime will know that they have nowhere to hide.

I wish to add that the establishment of a separate prosecution authority, the Assets Forfeiture Unit, the Scorpions and the soon-to-be-established Financial Intelligence Centre, the message to the criminals becomes even clearer: crime does not pay. This obviously puts the commitment and intention of Government to eliminate crime beyond question. This Government continues to prioritise high-crime areas, namely organised crime, violent crime, urban terrorism, corruption, cross-border crime, crime against women and children, and social crime prevention.

We acknowledge that the process of combating crime does not end but begins with the apprehension or arrest of crime suspects and includes successful, effective and expeditious prosecution of suspects. This fact puts the National Prosecution Authority at the centre of crime prevention. There is no doubt that the NPA and related agencies, like many newly established institutions, have had their own share of teething problems. However, looking at the short history of their existence and the impact they have made in the criminal justice system, this Government has every reason to declare publicly that there is hope in this country. Crime is not out of control and this Government is governing the country properly. The Government’s offensive against criminals is gradually but surely becoming too heavy for the criminals to withstand.

The NPA’s impressive improvement of prosecutors’ overall performance, leading to the courts sitting for at least four hours a day, the use of rescue missions in dealing with case backlogs, including the Saturday courts to which the Minister has referred, all constitute a dramatic strategy to deal with the reduction of case backlogs.

Based on cases that were brought before the courts and for which the Department of Justice is in fact accountable, and contrary to the wishful claim of others that the conviction rate is decreasing, we are convinced that since the advent of democracy in this country the conviction rate has increased to over 80% in the district courts, 65% in the regional courts and 77% in the high courts. These figures characterise the shining success story that the NPA resembles.

The Scorpions and the Asset Forfeiture Unit continue to break the backbone and shatter the havens of organised and other serious criminals. We have all seen how the political violence in KwaZulu-Natal, as well as car hijackings and drug trafficking in Gauteng were brought under control. We have all seen successes. We have seen how Scorpions dealt with urban terrorism in the Western Cape. These are but a few highlights.

We acknowledge the fact that as a result of paying more attention to violent and other serious crimes, less attention was given to commercial crimes. This resulted in some backlog in this area, but things are changing now. The Pretoria-based commercial crime unit, whose area of operation will soon be extended to cover other major centres, is a hope-giving expansion of focus.

The Sexual Offences and Community Affairs Unit, whose primary objective is to prioritise gender crimes and to reduce secondary victimisation, continues to make a positive impact on the lives of our people. We are on course and there is great hope for a better life for all our people. As we have added some momentous impetus to the historic celebration of the heroic 16 June youth uprising, I think it is fitting to declare once more today that there is hope in this country and that we are on course. [Applause.]

Dr C P MULDER: Chairperson, I wish to quote the following from the Interim Constitution of 1993 with regard to national unity and reconciliation:

The pursuit of national unity, the wellbeing of all South African citizens and peace requires reconciliation between the people of South Africa and the reconstruction of society. The adoption of this Constitution lays the secure foundation for the people of South Africa to transcend the divisions and strife of the past, which generated gross violation of human rights, the transgression of humanitarian principles in violent conflicts and a legacy of hatred, fear, guilt and revenge. These can now be addressed on the basis that there is a need for understanding but not for vengeance, a need for reparation but not for retaliation, a need for ubuntu but not for victimisation. In order to advance such reconciliation and reconstruction, amnesty shall be granted in respect of acts, omissions and offences associated with political objectives and committed in the course of the conflicts of the past.

This provision was also taken up in the new Constitution in terms of item 2(2) of Schedule 6. The quote comes from the postamble of the Interim Constitution and it conveys positive words and sentiments for making a new beginning. Where are we today? What happened to those positive sentiments?

The prosecuting authority has started to prosecute persons who have not received amnesty or have not applied for amnesty. The FF is of the opinion that the whole issue of amnesty has been dealt with in a very appalling and bad manner. The TRC has come to the end of its life and yet we still do not have the truth and we still do not have reconciliation.

Hoe is amnestie die afgelope 11 jaar gehanteer? Die De Klerk-regering het amnestie verleen aan duisende ANC-ondersteuners. Geen Norgard-beginsels is toegepas nie en geen amnestieverhore is gehou nie. Ingevolge die Record of Understanding tussen mnr Ramaphosa en mnr Roelf Meyer word amanestie aan ‘n verdere 168 persone verleen, waaronder mense wat soveel as ses moorde gepleeg het, of sommige wat polisiemanne vermoor het. Weer eens was geen Norgard-beginsels ter sprake of is name in die openbaar gepubliseer nie.

Toe volg die WVK-proses. Dit het onder andere die volgende resultaat gehad: Die moordenaars van die Heidelberg-taverne het amnestie verkry; die moordenaars van die aanval op die St James-kerk het amnestie verkry; die moordenaars van Amy Biehl het amnestie verkry; die planter van die bom in die Magoo’s Bar het amnestie verkry. Maar Clive Derby-Lewis en Janusz Walus het geen amnestie verkry nie; Jaco Badenhorst en ander Afrikaners het geen amnestie verkry nie; en dieselfde geld vir baie lede van die IVP wat vandag nog in die tronk sit. En nou? Die vervolgingsgesag begin nou om mense te vervolg. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[How has amnesty been dealt with over the past 11 years? The De Klerk government granted amnesty to thousands of ANC supporters. No Norgard principles were applied and no amnesty hearings were held. In terms of the Record of Understanding between Mr Ramaphosa and Mr Roelf Meyer amnesty was granted to an additional 168 persons, including persons who had committed as many as six murders, or some who had murdered policemen. Once again no mention was made of Norgard principles, nor were names published.

Then came the TRC process. This had the following results, inter alia: The Heidelberg Tavern murderers were granted amnesty; the murderers in the attack on St James church were granted amnesty; the murderers of Amy Biehl were granted amnesty; the person who planted the bomb in Magoo’s Bar was granted amnesty. But Clive Derby-Lewis and Janusz Walus were not granted amnesty; Jaco Badenhorst and other Afrikaners were not granted amnesty; and the same applies to many members of the IFP who are still in prison. And now? The prosecuting authority is now starting to prosecute people.]

Today the Minister asked the question: What do we do with people who did not apply for amnesty or applied and did not get amnesty? Do we prosecute them and spend millions or do we put the money to more positive use? There is, however, a more difficult question. What do we do with people who have applied for amnesty, whose amnesty was turned down, but who are still in jail today? We all know that the things they did were omissions or offences associated with political objectives and were committed in the course of the conflicts of the past, as the postamble originally stated.

In Sondag se Rapport word berig dat daar ‘n gesprek aan die gang is tussen die Minister en sekere generaals rondom hierdie probleem. Die VF ondersteun hierdie inisiatief, maar laat daar geen twyfel wees nie: Indien ons uitsonderings begin maak om mense amnestie te gee wat òf nie aansoek gedoen het nie, òf wat aansoek gedoen het en wie se aansoeke geweier is, kan dit nie net geld vir die leiers aan weerskante van die stryd nie. Dit moet vir almal geld. Daarom is die VF ten gunste van ‘n algehele amnestie vir almal wat dade met ‘n politieke motief gepleeg het tydens die konflikte van die verlede en wel voor 10 Mei 1994.

Die Regering sal nie hiervan kan wegkom nie. Of daar word algehele amnestie gegee, òf almal word vervolg voor die voet, insluitend die 37 ANC-leiers wie se amnestie geweier is en andere. Ons sal die begrotingspos steun, maar die antwoord lê in ‘n algehele amnestie as ons werklik ‘n nuwe begin wil maak. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[In Sunday’s Rapport it was reported that a discussion was taking place between the Minister and certain generals regarding this problem. The FF supports this initiative, but let there be no doubt: If we were to start making exceptions in granting amnesty to people who either did not apply or who did apply but whose applications were turned down, this cannot apply only to the leaders on both sides of the struggle. It must apply to everyone. For that reason the FF is in favour of a general amnesty for everyone who committed deeds with a political motive during the conflicts of the past, that is prior to 10 May 1994.

The Government will not be able to get away from this. Either general amnesty must be granted, or everyone must be prosecuted without exception, including the 37 ANC leaders whose amnesty was turned down, and others. We shall support the Vote, but the answer lies in a general amnesty if we really want to make a fresh start.] Mr L T LANDERS: Chairperson, unlike the hon Sheila Camerer, we in the ANC do not see problems from her doom and gloom perspective, but rather as challenges which must be met with conviction.

Soon after he took office, hon Minister Maduna undertook a series of surprise visits to various courts, police stations and prisons, together with the Ministers of Safety and Security and Correctional Services. Soon after that, Minister Maduna reported to some of us in the Justice portfolio committee about some of his experiences during those visits.

I particularly recall his anecdote about the broken and leaking water pipe he came across at one court building they visited, the fact that everyone was aware of it, but that nobody seemed to be interested or keen to do anything about it, and particularly the bureaucracy involved in trying to have the leaking water pipe repaired through the appropriate channels. Eventually, hon Minister Maduna, at his own expense, engaged the services of a local plumber and had this water pipe repaired. I would like to say to the hon Camerer to please take note.

In April this year, the Justice committees of Parliament also undertook visits to courts and Master’s offices in the four provinces - Gauteng, the Eastern Cape, the Northern Province and KwaZulu-Natal. What hon members saw with their own eyes and experienced for themselves is cause for concern, particularly with regard to the physical state of court buildings. It also brings into question the relationship between the Department of Justice and the Department of Public Works, and, more importantly, the nonexistence of a dedicated maintenance programme for court buildings.

Let me begin with the Durban magistrates’ court. As hon members know, this is a relatively large court building. On the day we arrived for our visit, the airconditioning system was out of order. Indeed, we were reliably informed that it had been that way for the past nine months, notwithstanding several written requests and appeals to the Department of Justice and, subsequently, to the Department of Public Works, all of which to no avail.

Moreover, several cases have had to be adjourned on days when Durban’s notorious heat and humidity reached intolerable and unbearable levels. We note, also, that the Department of Public Works’ building programme provides for a new airconditioning system to be implemented in December of this year. However, the problem that remains is the intervening period.

In Randburg, I am reliably informed by my colleagues and comrades, the magistrates’ court building is described as falling apart, and that the roof of the building is about to collapse on court personnel and the public. It is also important to note that the Randburg magistrates’ court is working from six different buildings and is bursting at the seams, owing to a lack of adequate accommodation, which has been exacerbated by the movement of businesses out of the Johannesburg CBD to areas such as Sandton and Randburg. The lack of a dedicated maintenance programme for court buildings assumes added significance when one considers a report from the Department of Public Works dated 1995, which states and I quote:

The question of inadequate funds for the proper maintenance of public buildings is aggravated by the fact that the Department of Public Works’s property portfolio is increasing every year, with the addition of new buildings either erected or purchased.

If one considers the number of new court buildings that have already been erected since that 1995 report, and the number of new court buildings scheduled for completion in the near future, one can understand the problem facing us. Unless and until the question of a dedicated maintenance programme for our court buildings is seriously and urgently addressed as a matter of policy, not only will this problem not go away, it will get even worse.

One aspect of the courts’ infrastructure, which is the responsibility of the Department of Justice, and which requires long and careful consideration, is the provision of security at all our court buildings. Security at our courts should not be a once-off event that occurs, particularly when a notorious gang leader or drug lord is due to appear. Security at our court buildings should be the norm.

Another very important aspect of the Justice committee’s visits to the provinces was to the offices of the Master of the High Court. At the entrance to the Master’s office in Pietermaritzburg, one is greeted by row after row of box files on the floor, standing at attention like regiments of soldiers. The reasons these box files occupy every available piece of floor space is because the Master’s office has not been provided with even the most rudimentary shelving.

It is said that every person will pass through the Master’s office at least once in their life. The Master’s office, which is the oldest judicial institution in the country, is the statutory office charged with settling the affairs and interests of those who have died. The Master’s office also acts as the guardian of minors’ interests. It must also be noted that our highly acclaimed Asset Forfeiture Unit relied heavily on the expertise provided by the Master’s office in setting up that unit. Each one of those box files, therefore, represents an important and integral part of somebody’s life. Why then are they not properly housed?

Some years ago some bright spark in the Department of Justice decided that the office responsible for the guardians’ fund, should be allocated computers, and the Pietermaritzburg office duly received four of these. Unfortunately and regrettably, the hardware came without software. With the right planning and attention, I firmly believe that the Master’s office can and should become an island of excellence in our justice system. It is hoped that the proposed Master’s office systems plan will help address these problems.

We are excited by some of the developments within the justice system. We applaud and commend the successes achieved by the National Prosecuting Authority, the Scorpions, and the Asset Forfeiture Unit. We look forward to addressing the challenges that face us. [Applause.]

Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Chairperson, hon Ministers, there have been notable improvements in the Department of Justice since the introduction of various programmes to our justice system, though there is much that still has to be done to address the apartheid legacy in justice.

We applaud those prosecutors who supported this initiative by availing themselves to work on Saturdays without any form of remuneration when the plan was introduced, especially in Mpumalanga and other sections of the country. We know, as a matter of fact, that prior to this arrangement, the wheels of justice were grinding very slowly. What we still have to establish is the rate of this success as measured against the number of cases brought before our courts on time. This has serious implications for those who are awaiting trial, as this costs the states millions and millions.

The basic working conditions of justice officials, particularly prosecutors and magistrates, should be improved as they play an important role in the country’s justice system. It is to be hoped that the past scenes of our prosecutors toyi-toying as a result of being poorly paid will be avoided at all costs by the department. We also note with relief that the Minister of Justice has no ambition or intention to bring the judiciary under executive control, as intimated in the media.

Tekanyetso-kabo ya lefapha le, e tshwanela ke go lepalepana le nako ya gompieno. Bogodu le tsietso tsa malatsi a, ke tse di ko mankalengkaleng. Ka jalo boitsanape jo bo dirisiwang ke lefapha le jaanong, botshwanela go lepalepana le ona mokgwa o. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[The budget of this department has to correspond with this period. Levels of theft and fraud are very high these days. The department’s strategies, therefore, have to be able to combat these problems in current situation.]

We therefore support the budget as it stands with the provision that the department identifies other sources of funding to augment state sources. This can be achieved in partnership with nongovernmental organisations involved in the criminal justice system. [Time expired.]

Dr S E M PHEKO: Mr Chairperson, the PAC supports this Budget Vote, but I want to comment on some parts of the Constitution. With monotonous regularity it is said that South Africa has the best constitution in the world. How true is this? Whose standards and values are being applied in judging this Constitution? Whose political, economic and cultural interests is this Constitution protecting?

Let me address five issues out of sixteen: Firstly, in its preamble, the South African Constitution says that the people of South Africa recognise the injustices of our past'' andhonour those who suffered for justice and freedom in our land’’. But many former freedom fighters such as the Azanian People’s Liberation Army and others have been sentenced to barbaric prison sentences for their past armed activities against colonialism and apartheid. For example, Thapelo Maseko was sentenced to 55 years inprison, Bhani Mangalisekile to 58 years, Shakespeare Buthelezi to 64 years, Ngesi Silimele to 69 years, Mdudeki Ntantiso to 74 years, Kenny Motsamai to two life prison sentences plus 19 years, and Phakamile Cishe to three life prison sentences plus 24 years. In practice, this is the way they are ``honoured’’ for having suffered for justice and freedom in their land. Kwanele Mzisi was sentenced to two life prison sentences for his part in the liberation struggle. He died in prison after being assaulted by hardened criminals with whom he was lumped.

Secondly, sections 232 and 233 of the Constitution claim to recognise principles of international law, but the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid has been ignored with impunity in this country. While the former freedom fighters are languishing, or have languished, in the jails of this country for opposing with arms, and while apartheid was declared a crime against humanity by the United Nations, the apartheid criminals such as Craig Williamson, Dirk Coetzee and scores of other apartheid criminals are as free as air. They are living comfortable lives, while our attention, concerning crimes against humanity, is diverted to Yugoslavia and Burundi. The TRC itself has ignored the principles that were applied at the international Nuremberg and Tokyo tribunals. It has committed unprecedented injustice against the victims of the crime against humanity in this country.

Thirdly, section 25(7) of the Constitution declares that people who were dispossessed of land can claim only from June 1913. This is illogical, and it is a mutilation of the history of land dispossession in this country. Lest posterity be misled, the truth is that the African majority of this country was allocated 7% of the total land area of this country through the Native Land Act of 1913. Another 6% crumb was added through the Native Trust Land Act of 1936. That is why today there is this massive poverty, homelessness, disease and ignorance among the African people, and they are the only people who live in filthy mekhukhus [shacks] throughout this country and suffer high child mortality and the shortest life expectancy.

Land dispossession goes back to shortly after Jan van Riebeeck arrived here on 6 April 1652. Section 25(7) is a perpetuation of land dispossession. Unless it is amended, all talk of land reform will remain a colossal political fraud, and the African majority of this country will continue to be perpetual beggars, owning nothing but amatyotyombe [God bless the nation] and a bastardised ``Nkosi Sikelela - Morena Boloka Sechaba’’ [God bless the nation.]

Fourthly, this Constitution has a clear stamp of eurocentricity gone eccentric and egocentric. It gives rights to homosexuals in very unambiguous language. But not so to African royalty, called traditional leaders in this country. Fifthly, section 12(1)(c) states that ``everyone has the right to security of the person … free from all forms of violence from both public and private sources …’’ But, is murder and rape not the order of the day in this country? It is disturbing that this past week it took the theft of the car of the President’s mother and the stoning of her house to attract police protection. Is it not strange that the mother of the President is not protected when it is clear that she could be the target of all sorts of criminals?

A good constitution is like clothes. It should be made to fit the people it is meant to serve. A constitution which is short on implementation or impractical is meaningless and must be amended. [Applause.]

Mr M T MASUTHA: Mr Chairperson, hon members of the House, let me start off by quoting from the very opening statement in our Constitution, as contained in the preamble, upon which my contribution to this debate today is largely based:

We, the people of South Africa, Recognise the injustices of our past; Honour those who suffered for justice and freedom in our land; Respect those who have worked to build and develop our country; and Believe that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, united in our diversity.

[Interjections.] The hon member should shut up and listen!

It is in this spirit that the Truth and Reconciliation Commission was established under the interim Constitution, and continued under the new Constitution, and in terms of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act of 1995, to exercise its mandate to investigate and establish as complete a picture as possible of the nature, causes and extent of gross human rights violations, which form a critical part of our unenviable past, so as to achieve true reconciliation amongst our people.

In presenting its report before the portfolio committee last week, the TRC summarised its work since October 1998 to date - which, I may add, is characterised by some very remarkable achievements and a marvellous track record - and presented a fairly small budget of about R10 million needed for the winding up of its business by around September this year.

Let me now turn to the institutions supporting constitutional democracy established under Chapter 9 of the Constitution. These institutions include the Public Protector, the Human Rights Commission and the Commission for Gender Equality. According to section 181(2), these institutions are independent and subject only to the Constitution and the law, and they must be impartial and exercise their powers and perform their functions without fear, favour or prejudice. However, subsection (5) states that these institutions are accountable to this House, and must report at least once a year to this House on their activities and the performance of their functions. Subsection (3) obliges other organs of state, through legislative and other measures, to assist and protect these institutions and to ensure their independence, impartiality, dignity and effectiveness.

The Public Protector, in presenting his budget to the portfolio committee last week, expressed concern regarding the attitude of certain political parties represented in this House, who utter statements in the media, calculated to undermine the integrity of that institution without restraint, and thereby undermining the very core of our democratic dispensation. These culprits are, of course, well known to all of us and to themselves for their unenviable track record under their ``Slaan Terug’’ policy, which is aimed at pulling this country two steps backwards for every step forward. We all know about the vicious attacks they have levelled against the Human Rights Commission before, and their biased approach to race relations; of being vocal only when white people are affected, and keeping a deafening silence when it is black people who are the victims of racial prejudice.

On this note, let me congratulate the Human Rights Commission for its monumental work in fighting the various ``isms’’ - racism being the worst amongst them - which sadly continue to characterise the social fabric of our society and, like a virus, mutates every time a new cure is found for it. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

Mr M T MASUTHA: Turning to the right of access to justice, it is encouraging to note that the department and the Legal Aid Board have opened 10 justice centres and plan to have launched a total of 60 by 2004. These centres will bring the judicial system closer to the people. Most of our legal services are located far from where our communities live. They are also often inaccessible physically, financially and otherwise. It is hoped that these centres will help to end this legacy.

Disabled People South Africa, DPSA, has linked up with the Legal Aid Board and has pledged its support for the board to ensure that these centres are truly accessible to all people, disabled people included. The board has made progress in making the justice centres physically accessible to persons in wheelchairs. I commend the progress made so far. However, it is also critical to make the centres accessible to blind persons through the usage of Braille facilities, to deaf persons through the provision of sign language interpreters, and to persons with mental disabilities through the usage of intermediaries to facilitate better communication during court proceedings. [Applause.]

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek wil my bydrae tot hierdie debat vandag begin met ‘n ware verhaal. Kom ons noem dit ``‘n Dag in die Lewe van ‘n Plattelandse Hof in Suid-Afrika’’.

‘n Vriend van my se bejaarde vader se swart werknemer word wederregtelik en met duistere motiewe aangekla van die diefstal van twee T-hemde, en word in hegtenis geneem. Die vriend probeer om vir hom ‘n prokureur te kry om die saak pro Deo vir hom te hanteer. Die prokureur sien egter nie kans om die saak ordentlik te hanteer vir die R75 wat hy daarvoor by die Regshulpraad sal kry nie.

My vriend, ‘n student in die regte, besluit om self die saak te hanteer. Die saak kom voor ‘n maand en een week nadat die beskuldigde in hegtenis geneem is vir die diefstal van twee T-hemde. Die landdros arriveer ‘n uur laat. Die saak word binne drie minute afgehandel en uit die hof gegooi.

Tien sake word in die volgende uur in die hof gehanteer. Die staatsaanklaer is onbevoeg en het belangrike lêers nie saamgebring nie, en nie een van die 10 sake word afgehandel nie. My vriend werk uit dat net die uitstel van die sake in daardie uur vir die 10 beskuldigdes saam meer as agt maande beloop

• agt maande in ons reeds oorvol tronke, agt maande wat die belastingbetaler ten duurste kos, agt maande om bloot by die proses van regspraak uit te kom.

Suid-Afrika sit met ‘n gevangenisbevolking van 160 000, bykans dubbeld oorbevolk. Meer as 60 000 van hulle is verhoorafwagtend. Wat ‘n refleksie op die Departement van Justisie! ‘n Ander prokureursvriend deel my mee dat uitsteltydperke in ‘n gewone landdroshof tans gemiddeld vier tot vyf maande is vanweë die oorvol hofrolle. Dit is vyf maande as verhoorafwagtende in ‘n gevangenis. Vroeër was dit minder as ‘n maand. Dit is in koue feite die getuigskrif vir ons strafregstelsel. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Mr Chairperson, I want to begin my contribution to this debate today with a true story. Let us call it ``A Day in the Life of a Rural Court in South Africa’’.

A black employee of the aged father of a friend of mine is wrongfully and inexplicably accused of the theft of two T-shirts, and is arrested. The friend attempts to get him a lawyer to handle the case pro Deo. However, the lawyer does not see his way clear to handle the case properly for the R75 he will receive for it from the Legal Aid Board.

My friend, a law student, decides to handle the case himself. The case is heard a month and a week after the accused was arrested for the theft of two T-shirts. The magistrate arrives an hour late. The case is dealt with within three minutes and thrown out of court.

In the hour that follows ten cases are heard in the court. The public prosecutor is incompetent and has not brought important files to court, and not one of the ten cases is finalised. My friend calculates that just the postponement of the cases in this hour together amounts to more than eight months - eight months for the ten accused in our already overcrowded prisons, eight months which cost the taxpayer dearly, eight months merely to get to the process of the administration of justice.

South Africa has a prison population of 160 000, virtually double the prison capacity. More than 60 000 of them are awaiting-trial prisoners. What a reflection on the Department of Justice! Another attorney friend of mine has told me that postponement periods in the average magistrates’ court are currently on average four to five months as a result of court rolls being too full. That is five months as an awaiting-trial prisoner in a prison. Previously it was less than a month. In cold facts this is the testimonial of our criminal justice system.]

We were promised, two years ago, that the department would rid the criminal justice system of major bottlenecks. None of these have materialised. As a result, there are ever-increasing court rolls and overcrowded prisons.

Die AEB onderstreep sekere aanbevelings deur van die ander sprekers in hierdie debat, veral ‘n verhoogde justisiebegroting met beter geriewe en salarisse vir aanklaers en ander personeel. Hierdie addisionele fondse sal dubbel en dwars teruggewen word deur kleiner hofrolle, minder verhoorafwagtendes in die tronke en die inperking van misdaad wat daaruit sal volg.

Hierbenewens wil die AEB twee onkonvensionele aanbevelings doen om die situasie die hoof te bied. Die eerste een is soos volg. In siviele reg het ons die Hof vir Klein Eise, met ‘n sterk beperkte jurisdiksie, sonder regsverteenwoordiging en met ‘n gesiene advokaat of prokureur uit die plaaslike gemeenskap in die stoel. Is daar nie ‘n moontlikheid om ‘n soortgelyke meganisme vir kriminele sake van kleiner orde in te stel nie? Veral vir kleiner oortredings met ‘n beperkte strafbevoegdheid, met natuurlik die reg tot appèl, kan dit goed werk. ‘n Tweede aanbeveling is dat ons die latjies moet terugbring! (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The AEB would like to underline certain recommendations by the other speakers in this debate, particularly an increased justice budget with better facilities and salaries for prosecutors and other staff. These additional funds will be fully recovered by shorter court rolls, fewer awaiting-trial prisoners in the prisons and the restriction of the crime which occurs as a result.

In addition to this the AEB would like to make two unconventional recommendations to deal with the situation. The first is as follows. In civil law we have the Small Claims Court, with a severely limited jurisdiction, without legal representation and with a respected advocate or attorney from the local community in the chair. Does the possibility not exist to implement a similar mechanism for less serious criminal cases? This can work well, particularly for smaller offences with a limited punitive jurisdiction, naturally with the right to appeal. A second recommendation is that we should bring back the cane!]

Corporal punishment for the less serious crimes should be brought back, especially to deal with young and first offenders. The population in our prisons can be drastically reduced and the court rolls will be shortened.

Yes, I know the outcry about human rights violations. But, is it not a case of the utmost hypocrisy when one prefers to throw a culprit in jail knowing that it is, in many cases, a deferred death penalty because he is almost certain to be be raped very soon and could easily become infected with HIV? [Interjections.]

Laat ons jong, eerste, ligte oortreders eerder goed ``gadeslaan’’ en terugplaas in die gemeenskap, en ek waarborg agb lede, baie van hulle sal eerste oortreders bly om sodoende nie in die tronke in geharde kriminele te ontaard nie.

Ander sake wat die aandag verdien, is onder meer die uitspraak van regter Southwood oor die onafhanklikheid van die howe. Ek herhaal die beroep wat ek by wyse van ‘n voorstel op die Minister gedoen het om hierdie uitspraak te eerbiedig en dringend daarvan werk te maak. Ons mag nie toelaat dat die ongelukkige debat oor die skeiding van magte tussen die wetgewende en die uitvoerende gesag ook die onafhanklikheid van die regsprekende gesag kontamineer nie.

Ook moet die AEB die Minister daaraan herinner dat dit die derde geval is waar hy die wind van voor kry weens onregmatige inmenging in die regsproses. Hy moet fokus op sy primêre taak, naamlik die skep van ‘n infrastruktuur en ordelike raamwerk vir regspleging deur die regslui self.

In dié verband wil die AEB weer eens sy standpunt onderstreep dat die aanstelling van landdroste in die gelykheidshowe deur die Minister nooit die toets van grondwetlikheid sal slaag nie. Ons vra dat dit ook gehanteer word in ooreenstemming met regter Southwood se uitspraak.

Ek wil ook verwys na die uitspraak van die Konstitusionele Hof dat halsmisdadigers nie uitgelewer kan word aan lande waar die doodstraf geld nie. Die gevaar bestaan dat Suid-Afrika kan ontaard in ‘n moordenaarspelonk vir die wêreld se gehardste kriminele, en dat moordenaars en verkragters na Suid-Afrika kan kom en sê soos ons in die bekende wegkruiperspeletjie: ``Een-twee-drie, blok myself!’’ Spesiale en dringende maatreëls sal getref moet word om sodanige voortvlugtiges te keer voor hulle in Suid-Afrika voet aan wal kan sit.

Die WVK sluit sy werksaamhede af. Nou staar vervolging mense wat nie amnestie gekry of gevra het nie in die gesig. Vervolgings kan nou begin. Die AEB steun die gesprekke tussen die generaals en die Regering. Dit lyk of ‘n soort uitruiltransaksie kan plaasvind, anders moet byvoorbeeld beide mnr Mbeki en genl Constand Viljoen vervolg word.

Dit is in orde, maar amnestie mag nie bloot elitisties gehanteer word en aan die top echelons verleen word terwyl die voetsoldate wat hulle opdragte by die top echelons gekry het die spit moet afbyt nie. Die AEB herbevestig sy herhaalde pleidooi om algemene amnestie aan almal wat misdade met ‘n politieke motief gepleeg het. Niks anders sal die boeke van die verlede kan toemaak nie.

Hierdie departement is ook belas met grondwetlike ontwikkeling. Daarvan het nog niks tereg gekom nie. Die blote bestaan van so ‘n portefeulje sê reeds vir ons die Grondwet mag nooit staties wees nie en is nie in beton gegiet nie. Vir ‘n land met ‘n homogene bevolking sou ‘n liberaal-demokratiese grondwet voldoende kon wees. Die huidige Grondwet verdiskonteer egter nie die plurale verskeidenheid van die Suid-Afrikaanse bevolking genoegsaam nie. Die AEB doen ‘n dringende beroep op die departement om sy naam gestand te doen en aandag te skenk aan hierdie grondwetlike wysigings. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Let us rather give young, first, minor offenders our close attention and place them back in the community, and I guarantee hon members, many of them will remain first offenders so that they will not develop into hardened criminals in prison.

Other matters which deserve attention include the statement by Mr Justice Judge Southwood about the independence of the courts. I repeat the appeal I made to the Minister by way of a motion to honour this statement and attend to it urgently. We must not allow the unfortunate debate on the division of powers between the legislature and the executive also to contaminate the independence of the judiciary authority.

The AEB must also remind the Minister that this is the third occasion on which he is experiencing opposition as a result of illegitimate interference in the legal process. He must focus on his primary task, namely the creation of an infrastructure and orderly framework for the administration of justice by the legal practitioners themselves.

In this regard the AEB would like once again to underline its position that the appointment of magistrates in the equity courts by the Minister will never pass the test of constitutionality. We ask that this also be dealt with in accordance with the statement by Mr Justice Southwood.

I also want to refer to the ruling by the Constitutional Court that perpetrators of capital crimes may not be extradited to countries where the death penalty is in operation. The danger exists that South Africa can develop into a refuge for murderers, for the world’s most hardened criminals, and that murderers and rapists can come to South Africa and say, as we do in the well-known hide-and-seek-game: ``One-two-three, block myself!’’ Special and urgent measures will have to be taken to stop such fugitives before they can arrive in South Africa.

The TRC is concluding its activities. People who did not receive or ask for amnesty now face prosecution. Prosecutions can now begin. The AEB supports the discussions between the generals and the Government. It appears that a type of exchange transaction could take place, otherwise both Mr Mbeki and Gen Constand Viljoen, for example, must be prosecuted.

This is in order, but amnesty must not be handled in an elitist manner and only be granted to the top echelons, while the foot soldiers who received their orders from the top echelons have to bear the brunt. The AEB reconfirms its repeated appeal for general amnesty to everyone who committed crimes with a political motive. Nothing less can close the books of the past.

This department is also tasked with constitutional development. Nothing has yet come of that. The mere existence of such a portfolio already tells us that the Constitution may never remain static and is not cast in stone. For a country with a homogenous population a liberal democratic constitution would possibly be sufficient. However, the current Constitution does not adequately take the diversity of the South African population into account. The AEB makes an urgent appeal to the department to live up to its name and give attention to these constitutional amendments. [Time expired.]]

Mr G SOLOMON: Chairperson, there is a very simple fact that is often overlooked in South Africa in that today South Africa consists of 40 583 574 people and not a privileged few as before. The Constitution of this country demands that each one of them, men, women and children, wherever and however they live, must have a right and access to justice defined very simple as: All shall be equal before the law. And, it is simply interpreted as follows: No one shall be imprisoned, deported or restricted without trial and no one shall be condemned by the order of any government official. The courts shall be representative of the people. Imprisonment shall only be for serious crimes against the people and shall aim at re- educating and not vengeance. All laws which discriminate on the grounds of race, colour, gender or belief shall be repealed.

This very simple but profound and constitutionally correct formulation of a justice vision was not done by any legal expert in our department but by the millions of ordinary and oppressed South Africans, ``for all in our country and the world to know’’, at the Congress of the People in Kliptown on 26 June 1955.

It was proclaimed at the time when the role of the legal administrative apparatus was not there to protect and enforce the rights of people, but to serve as the crucial instrument of control and domination, and served, simultaneously, the needs of an apartheid economy and the national security to protect the lifestyle and privileges of a small section of the population. Today we are 40,5 million. It was the most vivid form of domination in the world, exercised with the law and enforced by the courts.

The problems in the department are serious and are being physically and scientifically identified, by the director-general and a very competent Chief Financial Officer, seconded by Business Against Crime, as ones of management and financial control. Many of these problems were verified on our trips, multiparty visits to the various provinces, and many of the speakers here have mentioned them.

However, besides these main flaws mentioned here by many, there are many more. In our meetings with the department I was deeply impressed and encouraged by the upfrontness and openness of Director-General, Adv Vusi Pikoli, about the serious situation in the department, and I wish to say to Adv Pikoli that this attitude is certainly the first step towards a solution.

At the opening of the new civil courts in Cape Town recently the hon the Minister made a very profound statement to the effect that a credible and legitimate justice system is the cornerstone of our Government and the type of society that we envisage. We agree entirely with him. But we need to convince the Minister of Finance that providing an effective, efficient and successfully administered justice system will contribute towards the following - and I am sure the businesspersons will appreciate this: better social cohesion, enhanced community security and an environment for economic growth. If the laws are upheld and business can be conducted freely, fairly and safely, it creates confidence, encouraging enterprise and investment.

So what are we doing about the serious challenges facing the administration of justice in our country? In a series of serious portfolio committee meetings with the department and other structures, and tough, hard, nose-to- nose talks the department outlined in minute detail how they were going to manage the approximately R3 billion allocated for the year 2000-2001 in order, as we might say, to turn the benches around in the ailing justice system.

The department adopted a revolutionary strategic direction by establishing 10 business units with detailed plans for the implementation of core functions of each aspect of the department for the next four years. This strategic plan is informed by the following: Firstly, the shock of the bad performance of the previous financial years, including the unauthorised expenditure; secondly, the attitude of some judicial officers who misrepresent the new constitutional order and thereby impede the transformation process; thirdly, the new constitutional dispensation and the substantial increase in the number of laws passed by Parliament, with a concomitant increase in the volume of work performed by our courts; and, lastly, the introduction of equality - this has been mentioned before, so I will not worry about that.

The crux of the mission of the strategic business plan is to ensure that budget planning and allocation correspond with the actual needs, to perform the core functions of the justice system and ensure that values are added in return for the funds allocated by the proper utilisation of resources, efficiency and productivity. This revolutionary plan is the hope and saving grace of the justice system, because it is scientific.

However, it needs the co-operation of a number of role-players with differing interests and, I think, here is the problem. Synergy must be established among the Minister, the judiciary, the National Public Prosecuting Authority, the South African Police Service, the Department of Correctional Services, the Department of Social Development, the portfolio committee and many others.

There is no reason whatsoever that this cannot be effected under the principle of Chapter 3 of our Constitution, which enjoins all organs of state to observe the principle of good governance. If this is going to be misrepresented as compromising the independence of any of these role- players, particularly the judiciary, which is crucial to this strategic plan, we are going to run into serious problems.

I believe that no organ of state is so sacrosanct that the people must suffer on its behalf. We are upbeat and excited about the strategic plan and we shall support it to the hilt. [Applause.]

Mr J H JEFFERY: Mr Chairperson, I heard yesterday that Martin Welz, the editor of noseweek, had withdrawn as inaccurate and incorrect the statement making allegations against the Public Protector, the Director of Public Prosecutions, Mr Justice Fikile Bam and our own Chief Whip of the Majority Party.

I listened with interest to the representative of the PAC in this debate, Dr Pheko, expecting that he would withdraw his party’s allegations against those people, particularly as two of those people, the Director of Public Prosecutions and the Public Protector, form the subject of this debate. Unfortunately, that did not happen. But I hope that will come because the PAC allegations were based on the noseweek article.

I rise at the tail end of a long debate. Many issues have been raised and canvassed in the course of this afternoon regarding the workings of the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development. The problems faced by the department have not arisen in the past financial year, neither will they be eradicated in the coming one. It is a fundamental legacy, inherited from the old regime, the regime of former Minister Delport and former Deputy Minister Sheila Camerer.

Talking about former Deputy Minister Sheila Camerer, I find it ironic that one of the issues she likes speaking about a lot is the issue of reparations for the victims of human rights violations. As Mrs Camerer is well aware, the vast majority of these human rights abuses were caused by agents of the NP government. [Interjections.] Maybe it is the hon former Deputy Minister’s guilty conscience that makes her so ardent in speaking out about this issue.

What has been achieved by the department is the transformation of the justice system from an organ of injustice and oppression, an institution which served the privileged white minority, to one that is beginning to serve the needs of all the people of South Africa. The crime against humanity, ie apartheid, was a system that was upheld through law. The pass laws, the Group Areas Act, land dispossession laws, prohibitions on expression and association, were done in terms of the law. Even the sweeping powers given to the State President under the state of emergency were powers in terms of the law. The repeal of these laws, the building of a human rights jurisprudence and the transformation of the judiciary, achieved without sacking any old order judge or magistrate, have been remarkable.

Apartheid has been described as follows: that it systematically discriminated against black people in all aspects of social life. Black people were prevented from becoming owners of property or even residing in areas classified as white, which constituted nearly 90% of the land mass of South Africa. Senior jobs and access to established schools and universities were denied to them. Civic communities, including transport systems, public parks, libraries and many shops were closed to black people. Instead separate and inferior facilities were provided.

The deep scars of this appalling programme are still visible in our society. For the benefit of the hon members of the DP, that is the description of the Constitutional Court in the judgment concerning Brink v Kitshoff. So the fundamental legacy that we face is that of inequality.

In his state of the nation address last year, the President announced the holding of a national conference on racism, in the belief that this initiative would help the country move faster towards realising the goal of creating a nonracial society. That conference took place last year under the auspices of the Human Rights Commission.

On 20 March this year we debated the call to declare this decade the decade against racism. We did so by a majority vote, the DP, New NP, UDM and AEB dissenting. Later this year we are going to be hosting in South Africa the third international conference against racism. We need to be looking at what we are doing as our contribution in that regard. We are seen by the world as the miracle, but how have we built on that miracle since then?

Further points in the programmes of action were the promulgation of the Promotion of Equality and Prevention of Unfair Discrimination Act, that the criminal justice system should be equipped to enforce provisions to prevent and punish racist offences, and that officials in the justice system be trained in race sensitivity and race awareness. [Interjections.]

The Constitutional Court has stated that it is insufficient for the Constitution merely to ensure, through its Bill of Rights, that the statutory provisions, which have caused such unfair discrimination in the past, are eliminated. They go on to say that, like justice, equality delayed is equality denied. What is of concern is the slow progress in the implementation of this Act. [Time Expired.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, I am rising essentially to thank hon members for what, I believe, was a very good debate on this Vote. I want, particularly, to single out Dr Delport for what I think was a very positive contribution. I can assure Dr Delport that the many observations and positive statements that he made are going to receive serious attention. We will want to engage him, as I surely did last week, on some of the issues that he raised with me. I thank him, indeed, for his positive spirit. [Interjections.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Like all DP members. [Laughter.]

The MINISTER: Chairperson, then, of course, came my old friend Sheila Camerer. [Interjections.] I would like to say to her that it was as though she was not speaking for the DA, which, they all agree, they now are. [Interjections.]

Dr Tertius Delport says things that are very important, positive, etc. But then she came and spoilt practically everything that he had said. If one were to descend from Mars as she was speaking, one would, indeed, wonder whether the hon member was living in this country and, may I say, leading in this country in the heyday of the apartheid system. [Interjections.] It is no use for her to pretend that everything before the demise of the system of apartheid was hunky-dory. It is no use. That is a lie, which none of us must actually continue to perpetuate. The infrastructure that we are talking about was not at its best prior to 1994.

Mrs S M CAMERER: It certainly got worse.

The MINISTER: I say to her that it was not at its best. Black people in the rural areas were not walking short distances to courts, whose infrastructure disappeared when the Bantu came into the equation. [Interjections.] This, indeed, was not the case. If she is honest, she would recognise that we have built more courts than ever existed under the NP. We have done this. Whereas, in fact, when we came into office we discovered 800 magistrates and 600 prosecutors who had no formal training whatsoever. We are training them. [Interjections.] These are the fellow human beings - the warm bodies - that we inherited from our past, who are now being trained so that they can perform the tasks that they are expected to perform, after having been duly appointed to act as magistrates and prosecutors.

It is no use to pretend that they emerged only when the Bantu came into office. It is old colonial balderdash that as long as Europe governed Africa, everything was hunky-dory. Then, of course, the colonizer …

Mr D H M GIBSON: What does hunky-dory mean?

The MINISTER: Well, it means exactly what it means, hon member. [Laughter.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: What does it probably mean?

The MINISTER: Well, maybe it is language that the hon member does not speak. [Interjections.]

Honestly, it is an old erstwhile colonial position, namely that: ``As long as we prevented them from participating in the exercise of power, everything was fine. Then, of course, we made the cardinal mistake as colonisers and extended the vote to them, as a result of which they voted us out of power, and look at what has happened.’’ I would like to say to Madam Sheila that they have said this before. They have. [Interjections.] But, Madam Sheila must remember that there has always been the flip side of Madam, and that is Eve. [Laughter.]

Now, it is useful to look reality in the face. The infrastructure that we are grappling with now could have been dealt with in the heyday of apartheid. [Interjections.] She could have expanded it and could also, indeed, have ensured that it was always better maintained. Maintenance could not be tackled, because they focused on expanding whatever they raked in, by way of taxes and loans, on perpetuating the crime of apartheid. That is where the money went. The big national debt today cannot be accounted for in terms of measurables. What did it do for the majority of the people? [Interjections.] It was all wasted. [Applause.]

Now she comes and tells us nothing new. We have heard it from erstwhile colonisers: Zambia was the best country ...'' Zimbabwe was the best country until we packed and left.’’ Kenya was as good as heaven itself, etc, until we packed our bags and left.'' She left behind the reality that we are dealing with now. [Interjections.] It was this sort of reality that compelled the former President to say:But for God’s sake, can I expect justice from them?’’ He was talking about their order.

Mrs S M CAMERER: Are you justifying the high rate of crime. [Interjections.]

The MINISTER: I am not. [Interjections.] I am saying that the hon member discovered that there was crime in this country when, for instance, we stopped, rightly so, the helicopter that was fluttering above whites-only Sandton, whites-only Bryanston, whites-only Northcliff, and not over Soweto, where there was more crime, and not over Nyanga, Gugulethu, and Alexandra. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

This was it when we stopped that, so that the resources could be shared; so that the resources could be applied where crime was prevalent. [Interjections.] The hon member then says there is too much crime in this country. [Interjections.] Let me tell her that this is good for her own erudition. I think it will help her.

We in the black ghettos always lived with crime, and we had no one to speak to about crime, because no one was going to listen to us. [Applause.] No one even bothered to consult us. Even those who pretended to speak here on our behalf, never even bothered to consult us. They know this. [Interjections.] Let me forget about her now. So much for her, please. It is a waste of time to talk to her. [Interjections.]

Hon Pheko says that we should address the issue of soldiers in jail, etc. It is useful to remember that it is this institution that established, under law, the TRC. It is not the executive that has denied anybody amnesty. Now, I said the head of state is mindful of the fact that there are numerous problems that the TRC process could not resolve. He is aware of that. That is why we are quietly beginning to talk to people, on the understanding that they are not going to be opportunistic and populistic in the way they deal with this sensitive issue. Because it does not serve any useful purpose to pretend that the problem does not exist. Rather, it requires leadership, because the people out there are not crying out for populism, but for leadership.

The moment is coming when the President presents for debate the final report of the TRC. I am hoping that the hon Pheko, in particular, is not going to be opportunistic in the way he deals with that report. [Interjections.]

Lastly, the hon member says that the Constitution must be amended so that we go back to the very first day of the arrival of Van Riebeeck, 99 others and his wife. [Interjections.] I would like to say to the hon member that the reasons are well known to all of us. This issue arose at Codesa itself. At that point, of course, it is true that the PAC pretended that it had a special solution for this country, is that not so? [Interjections.] Again, 1994 came, and that so-called special solution was rejected as utter nonsense by the masses of our people, who voted the way they did. Hallelujah! [Laughter.] [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

The MINISTER: Just a small announcement: Everybody is invited to the Marks Building after this. However, I want to assure everybody that, notwithstanding the chairperson of the portfolio committee’s injunction, we shall not insist on the production of ANC membership cards for entry purposes. [Laughter.] [Applause.] All are welcome.

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 18:40. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                        MONDAY, 11 JUNE 2001

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of  Trade  and
     Industry in the National Assembly on 11 June 2001 and  referred  to
     the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification  in  terms  of
     Joint Rule 160:


     (i)      Industrial  Development  Amendment  Bill  [B  32  -  2001]
          (National Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill  and
          prior notice  of  its  introduction  published  in  Government
          Gazette No 22249 of 24 April 2001.]


     The Bill has also been  referred  to  the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Trade and Industry of the National Assembly.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    The referral on 6 June 2001 of the National Forest and Fire Laws
     Amendment Bill [B 14B - 2001] (National Council of Provinces -  sec
     76)  to  the  Portfolio  Committee  on  Environmental  Affairs  and
     Tourism was incorrect.  The  Bill  is  referred  to  the  Portfolio
     Committee on Water Affairs and Forestry.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces: Papers:

1. The Minister of Finance:

 (1)    Government Notice No R.349 published in the  Government  Gazette
     No 22219 dated 9 April 2001, Public Finance Management  Act,  1999:
     Treasury Regulations, made in terms of section  76  of  the  Public
     Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act No 1 of 1999).


 (2)    Government Notice No R.357 published in the  Government  Gazette
     No 22248 dated 20 April 2001,  Designation  of  an  institution  of
     which the activities  do  not  fall  within  the  meaning  of  "the
     business  of  a  bank"  ("Ithala  Development  Finance  Corporation
     Limited"  formerly  known  as  "KwaZulu  Finance   and   Investment
     Corporation Limited").


 (3)    Government Notice No R.303 published in the  Government  Gazette
     No 22234 dated 26 April 2001, Appointment of an  authorised  dealer
     in foreign exchange,  made  in  terms  of  Paragraph  3(a)  of  the
     Government Notice No R.1112 of 1 December 1961.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Joint Subcommittee on Powers and Privileges of Parliament, dated 7 June 2001, in terms of the resolutions adopted by the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces on 5 April 2001:

   The Joint Subcommittee on Powers and Privileges of Parliament reports as its recommendations to transform the existing law and practice on parliamentary powers and privileges, as follows:

      (1) Second  Draft  dated  4  April  2001  of  the  Powers  and
          Immunities of Parliament Bill; and
   
   
      (2) Minutes of the meeting of the Joint Subcommittee on Powers
          and Privileges held on 4 April 2001.
   
                    TUESDAY, 12 JUNE 2001
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 12 June 2001  in  terms  of
     Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bill as  a  section  75
     Bill:


     (i)     Close Corporations Amendment Bill [B 31 -  2001]  (National
          Assembly - sec 75). TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces: Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Report of the Auditor-General on the Council for Mineral Technology for
 1999-2000 [RP 65-2001].

1. The Minister of Finance:

 (1)    Specific Agreement between the Government  of  the  Republic  of
       South Africa and  the  Government  of  Sweden  on  Children  and
       Justice Support 1 September 2000 - 30 September 2003, tabled  in
       terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (2)    Specific Agreement between the Government  of  the  Republic  of
       South Africa and the Government of Sweden on  the  establishment
       of a Technical Co-operation Facility, tabled in terms of section
       231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (3)    Specific Agreement between the Government  of  the  Republic  of
       South Africa and the Government  of  Sweden  on  Revised  Budget
       Reporting Formats, tabled in terms  of  section  231(3)  of  the
       Constitution, 1996.


 (4)    Financing Agreement between the Government of  the  Republic  of
       South Africa and  the  European  Union  concerning  the  Support
       Programme to the Chief Directorate International Development Co-
       operation IDC (IDC - NAO Office), tabled  in  terms  of  section
       231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (5)    Financing Agreement between the Government of  the  Republic  of
       South Africa  and  the  European  Union  concerning  Conference,
       Workshop and Cultural Initiative Fund II,  tabled  in  terms  of
       section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (6)    Financing Agreement between the Government of  the  Republic  of
       South Africa and the European Union concerning the Technical and
       Administrative Assistance Programme to  the  European  Programme
       for Reconstruction  and  Development  in  South  Africa  (EPRD),
       tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (7)    Rider No 1 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South  Africa  and  the  European  Union  concerning
       Support for the SADC Finance and  Investment  Protocol  (FISCU),
       tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (8)    Amendment Number Two to the Development  Co-operation  Agreement
       between the Government of the Republic of South Africa  and  the
       Government of Sweden, tabled in terms of section 231(3)  of  the
       Constitution, 1996.


 (9)    Financing Agreement between the Government of  the  Republic  of
       South Africa and the European Union concerning Regional  Support
       for an Expanded Multisectoral Response to HIV/AIDS in  the  SADC
       Region, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of  the  Constitution,
       1996.


 (10)   Rider No 3 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South Africa and the European Union  concerning  the
       Public Health Sectoral Support Programme,  tabled  in  terms  of
       section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (11)   Rider No 4 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South Africa and the European Union  concerning  the
       Public Health Sectoral Support Programme,  tabled  in  terms  of
       section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (12)   Rider No 2 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South Africa and the European Union  concerning  the
       Assistance to Policing in the Eastern Cape, tabled in  terms  of
       section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (13)   Rider No 3 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South Africa and the European Union  concerning  the
       Assistance to Policing in the Eastern Cape, tabled in  terms  of
       section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (14)   Financing Agreement between the Government of  the  Republic  of
       South Africa and the European Union concerning  Support  to  the
       Transformation of the Justice System: The  e-Justice  Programme,
       tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
 (15)   Rider No 3 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South Africa and the European Commission  concerning
       Public Service Management Development Programme, tabled in terms
       of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (16)   Financing Agreement between the Government of  the  Republic  of
       South Africa and the European Union  concerning  Water  Services
       Sector Support Programme, tabled in terms of section  231(3)  of
       the Constitution, 1996.


 (17)   Rider No 4 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South Africa and the European Union  concerning  the
       Water Development Programme in the Eastern Cape, tabled in terms
       of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (18)   Rider No 3 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South Africa and the European Commission  concerning
       the Education Sectoral Support Programme,  tabled  in  terms  of
       section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (19)   Rider No 1 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South Africa and the European Union  concerning  the
       South African  Qualifications  Authority,  tabled  in  terms  of
       section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (20)   Rider No 2 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South Africa and the European Commission  concerning
       the Education Sectoral Support Programme,  tabled  in  terms  of
       section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (21)   Financing Agreement between the Government of  the  Republic  of
       South Africa and the European Union  concerning  the  Second  EU
       Human Rights Programme, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
       Constitution, 1996.
 (22)   Rider No 3 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South Africa and the European Union  concerning  the
       EU Human Rights Programme, tabled in terms of section 231(3)  of
       the Constitution, 1996.


 (23)   Exchange of Letters between the Government of  the  Republic  of
       South Africa and the European Commission  concerning  Privileges
       and Immunities of  Technical  Assistants,  tabled  in  terms  of
       section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (24)   Financing Agreement  between  the  Commission  of  the  European
       Communities and the SADC Member States  concerning  the  EU-SADC
       Investment  Promotion  (ESIP)  Programme,  tabled  in  terms  of
       section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (25)   Rider No 1 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South  Africa  and  the  European  Union  concerning
       Technology Support for SMMEs Pilot Programme, tabled in terms of
       section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (26)   Rider No 1 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South  Africa  and  the  European  Union  concerning
       Labour Market Skills Development Programme, tabled in  terms  of
       section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (27)   Rider No 2 to Financing Agreement between the Government of  the
       Republic of South  Africa  and  the  European  Union  concerning
       Labour Market Skills Development Programme, tabled in  terms  of
       section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.

1. The Minister of Minerals and Energy:

 Report of Mintek for 1999-2000.