National Assembly - 13 September 2001
THURSDAY, 13 SEPTEMBER 2001 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 14:02.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr D J SITHOLE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that - (a) the United Nations held a conference on racism, xenophobia and related intolerances in South Africa; and
(b) racism remains a challenge which humanity must overcome in the
21st century;
(2) believes that this conference has adopted important resolutions which will restore nations and people who have been affected by slavery, colonialism and racism; and
(3) hails this conference as groundbreaking and historic, and acknowledges the positive role played by the South African Government in hosting this conference.
[Applause.]
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:
That the House … Mr K M ANDREW: Madam Speaker on a point of order: I know it is considered a great amusement to many members of the Government to be insulting to female members of the opposition. But, having been warned previously, again at least two or three members of the governing party started making catlike sounds shortly after … [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order!
Mr K M ANDREW: I know that among the sexists and racists on that side it is very amusing. I think it is outrageous and I would ask you, Madam Speaker, to ask them to own up and withdraw their remarks. In future, I think you are going to have to introduce a penalty, because this is not the first time that this has happened. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order!
Mr M T GONIWE: Madam Speaker, in making his point, the hon Ken Andrew …
The SPEAKER: Are you speaking on the point of order?
Mr M T GONIWE: Yes.
The SPEAKER: Let me rule on it before you speak.
Mr M T GONIWE: OK. I will come back after the ruling.
The SPEAKER: Order! Complaints have been made about this and it is unacceptable that one should deal in that way with any member. I will deal with that and declare it out of order as soon as I hear it from any member, and I would ask all Whips to help me with this. We have to treat each other with respect and we do not do so by making fun of voices, of styles, of clothing, or of any such thing. [Applause.]
We will now proceed. Mr Goniwe, are you raising a point of order?
Mr M T GONIWE: I was saying that in making his point he further made an allegation in which he said: ``I know they in those benches are racists and sexists.’’ He said so.
The SPEAKER: Thank you, Mr Goniwe. Mr Andrew, did you use either of those words?
Mr K M ANDREW: I used both of those words, Madam Speaker, and the reason I did … [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Order!
Mr K M ANDREW: May I just address you briefly, Madam Speaker, please?
The SPEAKER: The reason is irrelevant.
Mr K M ANDREW: May I just address you briefly - 20 seconds?
Simply, the moment I raised the point of order, and the moment I indicated the nature of the problem, there were guffaws and laughter on that side which could only be … [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: Mr Andrew, would you please withdraw those words?
Mr K M ANDREW: They do not do it to the white women on this side.
The SPEAKER: Hon Mr Andrew, would you please withdraw those words, racist and sexist? You have given your reasons for using them, but, nonetheless, those are not words we accept.
Mr K M ANDREW: I withdraw, Madam Speaker, and we realise why R100 million was wasted in Durban. [Interjections.]
The SPEAKER: The timer will be turned back for the DP. Mrs Kalyan, will you now put your notice of motion.
Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:
That the House -
(1) notes President Mbeki’s request for a re-evaluation of spending on social services on the basis of the 1995 death statistics;
(2) recognises that while figures cited by the President show 2 653 Aids deaths in 1995, UNAID’s figures show that in 1999, 250 000 South Africans died from Aids;
(3) acknowledges that HIV/Aids is South Africa’s biggest health crisis;
(4) therefore, calls on President Mbeki to spend less time in cyberspace and more time amongst real people who are dying in increasing numbers as a result of Aids; and
(5) urges the Government to substantially increase the amount of money spent on combating HIV/Aids.
[Applause.]
Mr V B NDLOVU: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House -
(1) welcomes the contemplation of the new social security system that will process applications within two days instead of six months;
(2) believes that social security recipients will benefit from this innovation and poverty amongst the poor people will thus be eradicated; and
(3) commends the Minister and the Department of Social Development for this innovation which will enhance the Government’s delivery system.
Ms X C MAKASI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) the Cape Fish Processors plan to build a factory to process fish
in the Phillipi/Mitchells Plain poverty zone; and
(b) this project will create 12 000 jobs for local communities;
(2) believes that the implementation of this project will contribute to job creation and the eradication of poverty; and
(3) welcomes this project.
[Applause.]
Dr P J RABIE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the New NP:
That the House -
(1) notes the detrimental effect SA’s policy of ``silent diplomacy’’ toward Zimbabwe had on the SA economy, in the light of the following:
(a) the loss of investment could be as high as R8 billion, as a
result of damage to the region's image;
(b) among the ripple effects caused by the crisis is a looming food
shortage, with Zimbabwe expected to need 600 000 tons of the
staple grain, maize, to make it to the next harvest; and
(c) if Zimbabwe's crisis is not resolved, neighbouring countries
could face a massive flow of refugees across their borders; and
(2) calls on President Mbeki, in the interest of all SADC members, to make it clear that SA expects Zimbabwe to honour its recent undertakings to the international community.
Mr J T MASEKA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:
That the House -
(1) urges the ANC to kindly sharpen their maths skills, since it made an obvious mistake when it stated that 45 of their ``comrades are coming home’’ from the UDM; and
(2) notes -
(a) the fact that only two persons joined the ANC's ranks at Nyanga
(Western Cape);
(b) that the UDM warmly welcomes the approximately 500 ANC
supporters who, on 2 September 2001 in Vredenburg (Western
Cape), joined the true political home of all South Africans, the
UDM; and
(c) that the ANC is woefully mistaken if it thinks that the UDM is
on the demise - the true figures as quoted by the UDM clearly
indicate that the ANC's confidence is severely misplaced.
Mr D V BLOEM: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) the SA Post Office has declared war on corruption; and
(b) the Post Office has fired 250 managers and called in the
Scorpions Unit and the National Intelligence Agency to fight
crime;
(2) believes that this demonstrates the commitment of the ANC-led Government to fight corruption, and work towards a transparent and clean corporate governance policy for parastatals; and
(3) commends the steps taken by the Post Office to get rid of corrupt officials.
[Applause.]
Mr L M GREEN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House - (1) notes with shock and sadness the barbaric, devastating and co- ordinated terrorist attacks on the nerve centres of American defence and finance in Washington and New York;
(2) believes that South Africa, as a peace-loving country, must denounce, reject and condemn terrorism, especially in the form of suicide attacks;
(3) condemns those countries who harbour, train, sponsor and flirt with international terrorists; and
(4) therefore encourages the US administration to leave no stone unturned to punish the perpetrators and bring an end to global terrorism.
Dr A I VAN NIEKERK: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die VF sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis -
(1) sy weersin uitspreek teenoor die voorval in Brits wat tans in die Pretoriase hooggeregshof verhoor word waar ‘n plaaswerker gesterf het nadat hy met ‘n sambok aangerand is asook teenoor die twee gewelddadige plaasaanvalle gister in die Paarl, waar ‘n 50-jarige plaasvrou verwurg is en andere ernstig beseer is;
(2) kennis neem dat -
(a) die aanvalle, moord en aanrandings op plase steeds voorkom en
skynbaar besig is om toe te neem; en
(b) hierdie gebeure rasseverhoudings vertroebel; en
(3) alle LP’s maan om alles in hulle vermoë te doen om hierdie vorm van terreur teen te werk en nie die geleenthede te misbruik vir politieke voordeel of rassehaatspraak nie. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Dr A E VAN NIEKERK: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the FF:
That the House -
(1) expresses its revulsion at an incident in Brits that is currently being tried in the Pretoria Supreme Court, in which a farm labourer died after he was assaulted with a sjambok, as well as the two violent farm attacks at Paarl yesterday, in which a 50-year-old farmer’s wife was strangled and others were seriously injured;
(2) notes that -
(a) attacks, murders and assaults are still taking place on farms
and are apparently on the increase; and
(b) these incidents are marring race relations; and
(3) urges all MPs to do everything in their power to thwart this type of terrorism and not to abuse these incidents for political gain or racial hate speech.]
Mr N B FIHLA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes with concern the recent escapes of prisoners from St Alban’s Prison in Port Elizabeth and from the prison in Witbank, Mpumalanga;
(2) commends the police for their prompt action in recapturing the prisoner who escaped from St Alban’s Prison;
(3) welcomes the action taken against three prison officials who have been suspended pending an investigation into the escapes; and
(4) anxiously awaits the Minister’s reports upon completion of the investigations into these two escapes.
Mr R J HEINE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes the shocking state of South Africa’s restructuring programme in the light of -
(a) the postponement of the listing of SAA following the unsolved
controversy surrounding the breach of corporate governance at
SAA;
(b) the postponement of the listing of Telkom and the Airports
Company of South Africa;
(c) the serious implications this has for South Africa's asset and
liability programme; and
(d) the misguided actions of Cosatu in taking its antiprivatisation
campaign to the international stage; and
(2) calls on the Government to -
(a) reprimand its alliance partner for its uninformed actions which
are costing the SA economy billions of rands; and
(b) tackle the restructuring programme of State assets with the
seriousness it deserves.
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP: That the House -
(1) welcomes the publication of the manifesto on values, education and democracy by the Department of Education;
(2) commends the department for giving the African philosophy of ubuntu the prominence and importance it deserves and the recognition that such a philosophy is important in the restoration of human dignity; and
(3) urges all stakeholders to embrace the concept of ubuntu in an effort to make our schools centres of tolerance and acceptance of each other’s humanity.
Mr J H NASH: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that the Department of Land Affairs has recently approved an application by the Gariep Municipality to purchase a farm in Venterstad to increase commonage land and thereby the capacity to support and assist emerging small farmers; and
(2) commends the Minister and the department and acknowledges the role played by the MEC of Agriculture, Comrade Kwinti, and his department in ensuring that this application was approved.
Mr F BEUKMAN: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die VF sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis -
(1) sy skok uitspreek oor die voortgesette, onwettige aanhouding van ‘n RSA-burger, mnr Stone Stemmet, in Mali wat reeds meer as 90 dae lank sy RSA-paspoort ontneem is;
(2) die optrede van die Mali-regering betreur en versoek dat mnr Stemmet se wettige reisdokumente onmiddellik aan hom terugbesorg word;
(3) ‘n beroep doen op die Minister van Buitelandse Sake om -
(a) 'n statusverslag aan die Parlement voor te lê oor die stappe wat
die departement onderneem om mnr Stemmet se vrylating te
bewerkstellig; en
(b) die Hoë Kommissaris van Mali in Suid-Afrika vir dringende
konsultasie te ontbied en 'n verduideliking van die Mali-
regering te eis; en
(4) vertrou dat mnr Stemmet se persoonlike veiligheid en gesondheid nie deur sy voortgesette aanhouding in gevaar gestel word nie. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.) [Mr F BEUKMAN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the FF:
That the House -
(1) expresses its shock at the ongoing, unlawful detention in Mali of a RSA citizen, Mr Stone Stemmet, who has already been deprived of his RSA passport for more than 90 days;
(2) regrets the behaviour of the government of Mali and requests that Mr Stemmet’s legal travel documents be returned to him immediately;
(3) appeals to the Minister of Foreign Affairs to -
(a) submit a status report to Parliament on the steps the department
is taking to secure Mr Stemmet's release; and
(b) summon the High Commissioner of Mali in South Africa for urgent
consultation and demand an explanation from the government of
Mali; and
(4) trusts that Mr Stemmet’s personal safety and health are not being jeopardised by his continued detention.]
PRISON FELLOWSHIP INTERNATIONAL COUNCIL MEETING
(Draft Resolution)
Mr S N SWART: Madam Speaker, I move without notice on behalf of the ACDP:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) Prison Fellowship International, an association of
independent national Christian organisations involved in
criminal justice ministry worldwide, and having consultative
status with the United Nations Economic and Social Council,
will be holding its annual international council meeting in
Krugersdorp, starting this coming Sunday; and
(b) since 1976 Prison Fellowship International has grown to
encompass national Prison Fellowship ministries in 88
countries with around 100 000 volunteers worldwide, making it
the most extensive network of Christian criminal justice and
prison ministries in the world;
(2) commends the organisation for its positive contributions worldwide to criminal justice and prison reform, particularly its emphasis on the promotion of restorative justice, as well as its work in South Africa where it has taken a leading role in mobilising and training community volunteers and implementing victim-offender reconciliation projects; and
(3) prays for the Lord’s blessings upon its deliberations during its international council meeting next week which will be attended by delegates representing 95 countries.
Agreed to.
SECOND READING DEBATE ON PROVINCIAL TAX REGULATION BILL
(Draft Resolution)
Mr F BHENGU: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I hereby move without notice:
That, notwithstanding Rule 253, the Second Reading debate on the
Provincial Tax Regulation Bill [B 51 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec
76) be conducted on Tuesday, 18 September 2001.
Agreed to.
TERRORIST ATTACK ON THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
(Draft resolution)
Mr M T GONIWE: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I hereby move without notice:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) at 08:45, Eastern Standard Time, on 11 September 2001, an
unprecedented act of terrorism brought death and destruction
to the financial heartland of the United States of America;
(b) within the next hour, the Pentagon, headquarters of the US
Department of Defence, was also attacked; and
(c) a fourth hijacked aeroplane crashed near Pittsburgh,
Pennsylvania;
(2) believes that these acts of terror, carried out with ruthless
and fanatical precision, not only constitute an assault on the
United States, its government and its people, but also pose a
challenge to all humanity to act jointly to rid the world of this
scourge; and
(3) as the National Assembly of the Parliament of the Republic of
South Africa -
(a) unreservedly condemns these wanton acts of terrorism which
it is estimated will cost thousands of human lives;
(b) urges the Government of the Republic of South Africa to
extend whatever assistance is required by the United States of
America in this dire time of need to ensure that the
perpetrators are brought to justice; and
(c) in this hour of bereavement and profound sorrow, on behalf
of the people of South Africa, assures the people of the
United States that they are in our thoughts and that our
hearts go out to all those who have lost loved ones, relatives
and friends as a result of this brutal crime.
Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, scenes which a transfixed world viewed on its television screens last Tuesday, piling horror upon horror, will not be forgotten by any of us. No Hollywood blockbuster, no best seller ever envisaged the extent of the devastation which played out before the fascinated and horrified gaze of the world.
This was the cold-blooded execution of a terrorist plot by fanatics who were prepared to give their lives for God knows what cause, ignoring the fate of many thousands of innocent victims.
There are some in South Africa who have flirted with terrorists and still do so. Whether they will admit it or not, there were people who secretly were gleeful and who celebrated the attack on the heart of America.
The world changed last Tuesday, and we must recognise this. We need to respond positively to Prime Minister Blair’s call. We need to join an international alliance aimed at ending terrorism. Whether in the Middle East, Northern Ireland, America or Cape Town, it is not acceptable to be a terrorist or to support terrorism. [Interjections.]
It is not respectable to harbour terrorists or to lend them aid or comfort. Terrorism must become unacceptable anywhere in the world. All of the democracies, including South Africa and our democratic friends and allies around the world, must resolve not to tolerate those who choose violence. Those countries which foster terrorism or provide safe havens, even those that understand the terrorists, must pay a price. There must be no equivocation or ambivalence.
The initial inadequate response of our Government gave way to an appropriate and full-hearted response from President Mbeki, which we applaud. The President heads the Nonaligned Movement. Let us use that instrument, at the next meeting of the NAM, to start the process. South Africa is a shining light in the world. We managed, together as a people, to defeat apartheid. Let us now take a lead in fighting terrorism. [Interjections.]
I would urge the Government to listen again to the call made yesterday by the hon Ms Smuts, and that was to ask the Government to follow the example of many other countries and fly our flag at half mast, both as a gesture of sympathy and concern for our American friends, and as a sign of our resolve to defeat terrorism wherever it shows its head in the world. [Applause.]
Mr E J LUCAS: Madam Speaker, the IFP joins all members of this House in expressing our solidarity with the American people in their dark hour. Our profoundest condolences and prayers are with the American people. We are all violated by this tragedy, for we all share inviolable bonds, values and decency by the essential virtue of our humanity.
Terrorism and violence are not and never will be an accepted method to resolve conflicts or to advance political objectives. The message of the international community is clear to the terrorists who have committed these barbaric acts: We will give you no haven, and there is nowhere you can hide to escape the justice and retribution that will come.
The new global order is vulnerable to terrorist attacks, such as the ones perpetrated against the United States on 11 September 2001. South Africa must join the international community in redoubling its efforts to co- ordinate its intelligence community and capabilities to protect citizens from the threat of international terrorism. This was more than a strike against the United States; it was a calculated and ruthless attack against the democratic and civilised world. These forces of evil, extremism and tyranny will not prevail.
Today, may God comfort and direct the leaders of America, and its people, in making the difficult decisions that lie ahead. [Applause.]
Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the New NP and DP I want to convey our sincere condolences to the government and the people of the United States of America, who have experienced their darkest hour since Pearl Harbour.
As was the case with Pearl Harbour, the attacks on the World Trade Centre in New York and on the Pentagon in Washington mark a turning point in history and herald the beginning of a new world order - a world order not so much based on ideological grounds, but based on a divide between nations that support international terrorism and nations that reject international terrorism in whatever form it may occur, be it a car bomb in Belfast or a suicide bomber in Jerusalem. In this new world order, terrorism will no longer be allowed to masquerade as a lawful act in a so-called holy or just war.
It will be a world order where a nonaligned position will become untenable, a world order in which diplomatic relations or even friendship with a country that harbours terrorists or exports terrorism will be suicidal in the economic, diplomatic and military senses. Hopefully South Africa will end up on the right side of the fence, even if it means that we will have to say goodbye to many of the rogue states we are currently embracing. [Interjections.]
Ons steun die konsepbesluit op die tafel ten volle en het genoeg vertroue in die vermoë van Amerika om spoedig en doeltreffend teen hierdie gewetenlose moordenaars en hulle handlangers op te tree sonder dat onskuldige mense in die proses omkom. [Applous.] [We fully support the draft resolution before us and we have sufficient confidence in America’s ability to act promptly and effectively against these unscrupulous murderers and their supporters without innocent people having to die in the process. [Applause.]]
Mr M E MABETA: Madam Speaker, the terrorist attacks on America in the last two days have been described as horrific, barbaric and cruel. One academic in America, Prof Samuel Huntington, of the Harvard school of government, has gone so far as to characterise these painful events as a clash of cultures.
The UDM strongly condemns these insanely calculated actions, which have already claimed thousands of innocent lives. We agree with the widely held view that this is not an attack on America alone, but an open declaration of war on the very principles of democracy, human rights and international law.
Experience tells us that terrorists often take the initiative, and therefore the US must act with resolve and caution and speedily identify the perpetrators and their supporters. Whatever their objectives may be, they need to be identified so that a decision can be made on what action to take against them.
We must not lose sight of the fact that historically, in all conflicts, round-table discussions lead to enduring solutions. Should the US choose to track down the perpetrators and their sponsors, our Government would do well to ascertain that none of the arms used originate from our own country, lest we be plunged into a conflict that hardly serves our own interests or the legitimate interests of the international community, such as a common security for one and all in an atmosphere of mutual understanding and co-operation.
It is indeed sad that these terrorist acts against America happened at a time when the international community of states and nongovernmental organisations are characterised by an increasing sense of consensus and co- operation on all issues and areas. This growing consensus amongst different people for mutual understanding and co-operation on a wide range of issues, such as the fight against poverty and the search for peaceful conflict resolution in different regions of the world, should be an adequate universal guarantee against all forms of terrorism. Seven centuries ago a great eastern philosopher said: ``Beyond the issues of wrongdoing and rightdoing, there is a field.’’ So let us meet there and discuss humanity, and common security for one and for all. [Applause.]
Rev K R J MESHOE: Madam Speaker, all decent human beings with morals and a conscience around the world have been touched, saddened and even angered by the barbaric, devastating and co-ordinated terrorist attacks on the nerve centres of American defence and finance. What was done to the World Trade Centre in New York and the Pentagon in Washington DC is a sad reminder that none of us is immune from or can be insulated against terrorist attacks. That is why all peace-loving people of the world must denounce, reject and condemn terrorism, especially in the form of suicide attacks.
Those who harbour, sponsor and flirt with international terrorists must be hunted down, isolated and dealt with most severely. To the American people we say: We love you, grieve with you and share your pain. We express our heartfelt sympathies and condolences, especially to the many thousands who have lost their loved ones. Our prayers are also with the injured and their families and we wish them all a speedy recovery.
Their fellow Christians in the ACDP want to encourage them to be strong and not to doubt the love of Christ during this painful period of their history. The Apostle Paul once asked the Roman Christians a very pertinent question. He asked: Who shall separate us from the love of God? Shall tribulation or distress, persecution or peril, sword or even terrorism? He later answered his own question by saying: No, in all these things, painful as they may be, we are more than conquerers through Him that loved us.
I would encourage my Americans friends to be strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. They should not give up, for all is not lost. They should pick up the broken pieces with dignity and resolve and rebuild their great country. We know they can do it. May this sad, unprecedented experience bring them closer to God in whom they trust. May God bless and keep our American friends. [Applause.]
Dr P W A MULDER: Madam Speaker, after Tuesday 11 September, the United States will never be the same again. I want to predict that the world will never be the same again. We have become used to airplane hijackings and international terrorism. Sadly, however, international terrorism reached its peak in the attacks on Tuesday on the United States of America. The FF condemns these actions in the strongest terms and has already sent a letter of condolence to the US government and all the innocent people who have been affected.
One can only guess what the results would have been if these terrorists had had access to nuclear weapons. May this never happen. This type of terrorism can only be eradicated through a combined effort of all states worldwide, including South Africa, as we have already done in the case of the embassy bombings in Africa.
Die skrywer Shaw se boek Genetic Seeds of Warfare bereken dat vrede slegs 8% van die totale geskrewe geskiedenis van die mensdom uitmaak. In die afgelope 5 600 jaar was daar 14 500 oorloë. Die mensdom het daarin geslaag om slegs 268 jaar sonder oorlog te wees in die afgelope 3 400 eeue. Voorwaar ‘n slegte rekord. ‘n Sinikus het gesê: ``War is like love. It always finds a way.’’ Mag ons dit behoed word in ons leeftyd. Die VF steun die VSA in hulle stappe om hierdie terrorisme en die lande wat die terroriste beskerm het, met enige maatreël nodig, so hard as moontlik te straf. Ons vra dat dit wel so gedoen mag word, dat dit nie sommer tot ‘n oorlog in die Midde-Ooste kan lei.
Hitler het in die Tweede Wêreldoorlog vir etlike maande lank vir Londen gebombardeer om die Britse moraal te breek. Presies die teenoorgesteld het gebeur. Hy het dit sterker gemaak in pleks daarvan om dit af te breek. Dit is dikwels wat gebeur in gevalle soos hierdie soos wat nou in Amerika gesien word. Ekstremistiese politiek het nog nooit probleme opgelos nie, maar dit eerder erger gemaak. Mag ons in Suid-Afrika nooit in so ‘n posisie kom dat eskalerende geweld as die enigste oplossing vir ons probleme gesien word nie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[The book Genetic Seeds of Warfare by the writer Shaw calculates that peace comprises only 8% of the total written history of humankind. During the past 5 600 years there were 14 500 wars. Humankind has succeeded in not being at war for only 268 years during the past 3 400 centuries. Indeed a poor record. A cynic once said: ``War is like love. It always finds a way.’’ May we be spared this in our lifetime. The FF supports the USA in the steps they are taking to punish this terrorism and the countries that protected the terrorists as severely as possible by any means necessary. We ask that it may in fact be done in this way, so that it cannot summarily lead to war in the Middle East.
In World War II Hitler bombarded London for many months to break the British morale. Exactly the opposite happened. He made it stronger instead of breaking it down. This is often what happens in cases such as have now been seen in America. Extremist politics have never solved problems, but rather aggravated them. May we in South Africa never find ourselves in a position where escalating violence is regarded as the only solution to our problems. [Applause.]]
Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Madam Speaker, in reaction to the terrorist attack in America, I am obliged to state the following: Some reports have estimated that about 5 000 to 10 000 have died in the World Trade Centre attacks. It is estimated that 10 000 people worked in each tower and a large number of people were probably at their desks at 8:45.
Preliminary investigations have identified more than a dozen hijackers of Middle Eastern origin in Tuesday’s bombing and gathered evidence links them to Osama bin Laden and other networks.
We notice with pride the position our Government has taken, together with other local role-players, including the religious community, in unequivocally condemning such an act of terrorism. I further urge them to offer comfort and prayer to those affected, recognising that New York is an international city made up of people from all over the world including the Middle East, Latin America and Africa. This type of attack is indiscriminate and affects people of all nationalities. I call on people from around the world to take a stand against the use of violence against civilians.
Setlhogo se batho ba bolailweng ka sona ga se ise se ke se diragale gope mo lefatsheng, mo e reng le fa batho ba ikuela gore ba tlhomogelwe pelo, boikuelo jwa bona bo wele mo ditsebeng tse di sa utlweng.
Ra re, a Ma-Amerika a lale ka ntho madi a tshologa le pelo di gamuketse botlhoko di tlaa fola. Modimo o mogolo, o lorato mme o tlaa fodisa. Le mo tiragalong e, boitlwelobotlhoko jwa ona bo teng.
A Modimo o ba utlwele botlhoko. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)
[The cruelty with which those people were killed has never happened anywhere in the world, to the extent that even if the victims were to plead for mercy, such a plea would have fallen on deaf ears.
To the Americans we say, everything will be fine. God is great, and loving and will heal them. Even at a time like this, His mercy is upon them.
God will have mercy on them.]
Dr M S MOGOBA: Madam Speaker, the attack on the USA on Tuesday was possibly the most vicious and heartless that the world has seen. The age of electronic media brings horrific pictures into our homes to enable the global village to share the pain and trauma inflicted on innocent people in their places of work and in their homes.
War is an ugly business that no group can claim justification for. It is also savage, primitive, wasteful, expensive and senseless. We express our condolences to families on whom the savagery of violence and war is inflicted.
To ensure that more people do not suffer in the same way, we must call on the leaders of the countries to seriously challenge us to find out why there are injustices, oppression, racism and selfishness in our world. We must challenge the United Nations and other forums such as the OAU, the Nonaligned Movement, the Commonwealth Conference and Nato to use their platforms seriously for serious dialogue. War is an admission of the failure of dialogue. War is unwinnable; even the victor cannot claim victory when thousands of people have died and cannot be brought back to life. They have been robbed of their lives forever.
Human beings are basically sinners. They are not angels or perfect creatures. The religious leaders must be those who teach us to repent, and to return to God. In the hands of sinful men and women, this world would be reduced to ashes, with victims of violence being reduced to statistics. Jeremiah says: ``If we do not repent we will be uprooted, torn down and destroyed, but if we repent we will be saved.’’
Martin Luther King Jr wrote, amongst other things:
To meet hate with retaliatory hate would do nothing but intensify the existence of evil in the universe. Hate begets hate, violence begets violence, toughness begets even greater violence. We must meet the forces of hate with the power of love. We must meet physical force with soul force.
Again, he wrote:
The choice is no longer between violence and nonviolence. It is between nonviolence and nonexistence.
The PAC supports this motion.
Dr A I VAN NIEKERK: Madam Speaker, the FA has learned with shock and horror of the terrorist attacks aimed at the people of the United States of America, the leader of the free world. The barbaric acts committed against innocent civilians, including women and children, must be condemned in the strongest possible terms. It is our fervent wish that these terrorists will be apprehended, wherever they might be hiding, and that swift and decisive action will follow against those harbouring these villains.
Our deepest sympathy is extended to the American people, and especially to those who have lost loved ones. We pray that God will grant the American leaders the necessary wisdom to guide their people and the free world through this difficult time.
Ons moet daarvan kennis neem dat die terreurdade deur individue gepleeg is, en dat ons dit nie koppel aan die individu se ras, geloof of herkoms nie, omdat dit baie maklik die aandag aftrek van die dade van terreur, wat deur alle gelowe en mense verdoem behoort te word. [Applous.] [We should take note that the acts of terror were committed by individuals and that we do not link it to the individual’s race, religion or ethnic origin, because this could easily distract attention from the acts of terror, which should be condemned by all religions and people. [Applause.]] Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, on 11 September 2001 the US saw its worst day in history. What should have been a normal day in the US began as a day of terror. As four planes were hijacked, those innocently headed for their destinations, who were on business, returning home or whatever, fell victim to a suicidal statement. As they were flown to their deaths, as an attack on targeted state buildings, it seems that this barbarism was not enough for the perpetrators. The aircraft were flown into state buildings, the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon. Thousands of lives have been taken and so many lives destroyed.
The MF grieves at the loss these horrors caused. How many more lives are to be taken as a tool to achieve an end? Does the world only know how to compromise with the ink of blood, the pain of pointing a finger and the solution of trigger-happy killing? Do we honestly believe that with such barbarism we are reaching a solution, or is a veil thrown over the reality that such acts result only in more and more warfare?
The MF shares the determination that these perpetrators should be uprooted and brought to justice with no mercy. The MF sees no justifiable reason for their action. The MF believes that a plan of action has to be enforced now. Could this mean war? Could this mean the beginning of what has for so long been avoided, or will this matter be dealt with in a circumspect manner?
Many questions plague our minds, but the loss is a great sorrow. The MF shares in the sorrow of the mother who received a phone call from her son to say that the plane in which he was travelling had been hijacked and that he loved her. Is she lucky to have had the chance to speak to him minutes before he was flown to his death, or was she, like many others who fell victim to this scene of savagery, robbed of her humanity and right to life?
The MF is devastated and expresses its sincere condolences to the bereaved families, friends and loved ones of the victims of this tragedy. [Applause.]
Mnr C AUCAMP: Mevrou die Speaker, na 11 September 2001 sal die wêreld nooit weer dieselfde wees nie; nie net in Amerika nie, maar ook hier in ons land.
Vergun my om vier kort perspektiewe met agb lede te deel. Die magtigste land ter wêreld, ‘n land wat met fyn presisie ‘n missielskild in die buitenste ruim om hom kan bou, word in sy hart geruk deur ‘n paar mense wat gewapen met knipmesse, ‘n gewone passasiersvliegtuig omskep in ‘n dodelike missiel. ‘n Land wat sy vlag op die maan geplant het, word gedwing om in die betonstof van Manhattan sy lyke by die duisende uit te grawe. Die gebeure van 11 September laat my met die vraag van Psalm 8: ``Wat is die mens …?’’ Kom ons word klein by hierdie gebeure.
Gister het Adjunkpresident Zuma, na aanleiding van die Durbankonferensie gesê dat die wêreld in twee verdeel is tussen die ontwikkelde en ontwikkelende lande. ‘n Veel meer wesenlike verdeling is met die gebeure in New York voltrek: ‘n skeiding tussen die lande van die Vrye Wêreld en die lande van terrorisme en selfmoordbendes. Dit is die verdeling tussen die lig van die beskawing en die duisternis van die onderwêreld. Die komende wêreldgebeure gaan hierdie skeidslyn voltrek, net soos Pearl Harbour in die veertigs. Die kritieke vraag is: Waar gaan Suid-Afrika hom skaar? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, after 11 September 2001 the world will never be the same again; not just in America, but also here in our country.
Allow me to share four brief perspectives with hon members. The most powerful country in the world, a country that has been able with fine precision to build a shield of missiles around it in outer space, was shaken to the core by a few people armed with pen knives, who transformed an ordinary passenger aircraft into a deadly missile. A country that planted its flag on the moon is being forced to dig thousands of corpses out of the rubble in Manhattan. The events of 11 September inspire me to ask the question of Psalm 8: ``What is man … ?’’ Let us humble ourselves before these events.
Yesterday Deputy President Zuma said, with reference to the Durban conference, that the world was divided into two parts, developed and developing countries. A much greater essential division took place with the events in New York: a division between the countries of the Free World and the countries of terrorism and suicide gangs. This is the division between the light of civilisation and the darkness of the underworld. The coming world events are going to complete this division, just as Pearl Harbour did in the forties. The critical question is: On which side is South Africa going to be in?]
Here is my third perspective. The devastation of Tuesday was executed by kamikazes, suicide pilots. People are driven to these extremes only by religious fanaticism. Let the catastrophe of 11 September signal a message to all religious leaders all over the world that there is a delicate but vital line between devotion and fanaticism. God definitely does not ask for the latter.
‘n Laaste flits: skielik lyk Suid-Afrika se probleme nie meer so groot nie. Aan ons mense wat so maklik sê: Londen, New York, daar lê my toekoms, wil ek sê dat hulle weer moet dink, want miskien is daar in die tye wat kom nie ‘n beter plek om te bly as juis Suid-Afrika nie. So baie hang af van wat ons in hierdie hoogste Raadsaal van die land daarmee gaan maak. Terselfdertyd, terwyl die vliegtuie van verwoesting na die WTC op pad was, het ons in hierdie huis vanuit teenoorgestelde kante van ‘n verlede van stryd, saam meegevoel betoon met die dood van Govan Mbeki. Miskien is dit simbolies dat ons uit twee wêrelde op pad is na begrip en verdraagsaamheid en ‘n goeie toekoms.
Ons harte en gebede gaan uit na hulle wat so diep getref is. Ons ondersteun die mosie ten volle. Mag God ook die volk van Amerika ryklik onderskraag. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[A final thought: Suddenly South Africa’s problems do not look so vast any longer. To those of our people who so readily say: London, New York, that is where my future lies, I want to say that they should think again, because perhaps there is no better place to be in the foreseeable future than South Africa. So much depends on what we in this highest Chamber of the country are going to do about this. At the same time that the aeroplanes of destruction were on their way to the WTC, we in this House, from opposite sides of the struggle in the past, were united in conveying sympathy on the death of Govan Mbeki. Perhaps it is symbolic that we, from two different worlds, are on the way to understanding and tolerance and a good future.
Our hearts and prayers go out to those who have been affected so deeply. We support the motion fully. May God also comfort the people of America. [Applause.]]
Mr E I EBRAHIM: Madam Speaker, I was really taken aback by the DP and the NP, who chose to use this tragic event to score some cheap political points. [Interjections.] They have no sense of occasion or nobility of spirit. [Interjections.] We wish to apologise to our American friends for the small-mindedness of the opposition. [Interjections.] The country today should be speaking with one voice on this very tragic event.
The world witnessed a horrific tragedy unfold on Tuesday, as plane after plane crashed into very strategic buildings in the United States. It is still not known how many lives these acts of terror claimed, but the estimates speak of thousands. The devastation to a number of important buildings in America’s two leading cities is unprecedented. No compassionate human being could feel anything but abhorrence and disdain at those who found it in themselves to commit such a brutal crime.
We join the world, north, south, east and west, in unreserved condemnation of this unprecedented horror attack. In the same vein, we join the leaders of the world, from the United Kingdom and Germany to China and Japan, from Pakistan and Palestine to Jordan and Syria, in extending our most heartfelt condolences to the bereaved families of the American people and government.
We all appreciate the assurance, by President Mbeki, that South Africa is prepared and ready to provide whatever humanitarian aid is requested to the American people. We are assured that the intelligence agencies in the United States will get to the bottom of the attack, and the perpetrators of this heinous crime will be found and will meet with the full force of the law.
This monstrous event illustrates the interconnectedness of the world. No nation can remain isolated or act in a unilateral manner in world affairs. What we need now, is a new world order where no power, country or people assumes for itself the authority to dictate, oppress and exploit, bomb or boycott, invade or discriminate against any other country or people. The principle of equality of nations is one we all need to share.
The tragic atrocity committed against the United States must reaffirm, for all of us, the importance of the sanctity of human life, whether this is reflected in the senseless and criminal act of murder in the United States, or the horrible genocide in Rwanda which claimed the lives of 800 000 people, the ethnic cleansing in the Balkans, the cry of the Palestinians for freedom and justice or the violence in Sudan, Algeria, Angola and elsewhere in the world. We must, as world leaders, in our collective fight against the inhuman scourge of global terrorism, open up the doors of dialogue and place much greater emphasis on negotiation, political dialogue and peaceful resolution of conflict. The alternative is violence and hatred, which beget only more violence and hatred. This is a vicious circle that humanity pays for, not in dollars, pounds, francs, yen or rands, but in precious and innocent lives.
In this period of crisis, grief and anger, we must not be tempted to act in an indiscriminate manner. If we do, we run the risk of stooping to the level of or even lower than, those who, like animals in the wild, wittingly slaughter, maim and destroy human life. We must, in dealing with this, ensure the presumption of innocence until proof of guilt.
Finally, we must implore the United States and Nato to avoid the same level of indiscriminate action when meeting out punishment to the guilty party. The world has certainly seen enough violence against innocent people, pain and suffering among civilians, death and destruction, and enough is too much. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Order! I will convey the contents of the motion to the United States Congress and the people of the United States on behalf of this Parliament.
Debate concluded.
Motion agreed to.
TO ACHIEVE A BETTER LIFE FOR ALL, DELIVERY HAS TO IMPROVE AT ALL LEVELS
(Subject for Discussion)
Mr P F SMITH: Madam Speaker, hon Deputy President and colleagues, the IFP have called for this debate because we feel that the issue of delivery needs greater exposure in the House, and also because we feel there is value in Parliament expressing itself on the extent to which it is satisfied or otherwise with delivery to date.
As a preliminary comment, I want to say that we view the issue of delivery under three headings, policy, systems and capacity, and all these lie on a single delivery continuum. It is the way they mesh together that determines the effectiveness or otherwise of policy.
Policy, of course, is a starting point, because it determines in broad terms what the Government wants to see in terms of outcomes and outputs. By systems we mean the processes and instruments within the administration of Government that are geared towards implementing the policy. Finally, there is the issue of capacity by which we refer to the ability of the institutions concerned to take the policy through the delivery systems.
Let me start with policy. There is an old computer acronym GIGO which means ``garbage in, garbage out’’. In other words, the computer just processes information and if one feeds it the wrong data in the beginning, one will get the wrong data out at the other side. Much the same, in fact, applies in respect of policy. Now for each party in this House the issue will be different, but certainly there are many areas concerning which we as a party are dissatisfied with policy at present. I just want to highlight one or two of these to indicate the problems that we have with outputs.
The first of these is poverty alleviation, and I am not referring here to poverty reduction, which is a longer-term issue. We are alarmed by the extent and intensity of poverty in this country, and we are not really convinced that the Government has done sufficient or is doing sufficient to adopt remedial strategies that are working.
Treasury statistics show, for example, that all the social expenditure - on health, education and housing - it is social assistance, that is grants, that target the poorest of the poor the best. This strongly suggests to us that a special grant system may well produce far better deliverable outputs in respect of poverty alleviation than some of the other well-intentioned but longer-term programmes intended to reduce poverty.
If one looks at unemployment, our economic growth regularly falls short of the 6% targeted - we have a situation of jobless growth, this is deeply worrying to all of us. And despite every endeavour made, the problem is just simply not improving. Greater boldness, in our view, is required. We really want to ask whether the Government has a job creation strategy, or is job creation seen more as a by-product of other programmes? We believe more attention needs to be paid to options such as public works programmes and to incentivising job creation.
I now come to revenue over-runs. This is Pravin Gordhan’s tax collection. Here again, we really need to have a thorough debate because the figures involved are very significant and they could have a meaningful impact on deliverable outcomes. Should we use the funds simply to redeem public debt, or could we not find a more productive use for some of this money? Given our healthy debt ratios, we are of the view that we have sufficient leeway to consider further social investments, and also that a strong case can be made for funding programmes in the line Ministries that are currently underfunded, such as Justice and Home Affairs.
The second issue is that of systems. We know that Government initiated a massive transformation exercise in 1994. There was wholesale rewriting of the Statute Book, re-engineering of the machinery of Government and, of course, simply taking over the reins of Government. Along the way it grew increasingly clear that there was a mismatch between policy and delivery, and focus gradually shifted towards greater pragmatism and greater implementation.
From a Government perspective, we want to say that we acknowledge that there have been significant developments in this field over the last year or two in particular, and that the Public Finance Management Act and the public service regulations of 1999 are particularly crucial to this. The idea is very simple. For any given line function, the department prepares a strategic plan, looking at outcomes, outputs and service delivery indicators. That strategic plan feeds into the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, year one of which, of course, is the Budget. The PFMA dovetails a reporting system into this, and one gets reports, of course, annually, quarterly and monthly.
Linked to this entire matter is the redesigning of our management structure in the Public Service. And this traditional hierarchical rules-driven approach is being replaced with the notion of greater decentralisation and greater flexibility and embodies the slogan: ``Let managers manage.’’ Performance contracts for senior managers are all part of this, which is intended to result in both greater productivity and accountability and, of course, delivery. International experience suggests that this is an appropriate way to go in terms of improving delivery. So we do want to acknowledge that much is being done here, even though to date that is restricted largely to the national and provincial spheres of Government. Local government is being addressed separately, but we think there is progress here and we are on the right track.
The third issue is capacity, which is very problematic. There is a widespread perception that there is a severe skills shortage in the public sector - of course this is so in the private sector as well - and that this has a direct bearing on the Government’s ability to deliver. In fact, the Minister of Labour back in 1998 expressly said that the lack of skills - and I am quoting him - was a more severe problem for service provision than was limited finances.
The problem is very acute, of course, in provincial administrations, more so than in the national administration. This is particularly problematic, because it is the provinces which are responsible for the Schedule 4 functions in particular, which are some of the key delivery issues. The Auditor-General has pointed out many problems in provincial administrations, and, of course, the President himself has acknowledged that the problem is severe. In fact, he talked about the ``failure of provincial delivery institutions’’. I think this is a problem we all recognise.
It was so bad for him that back in 1999 he called for a review of the provincial system, and the Premier of the Eastern Cape has done likewise. But, fortunately, I think it is fair to say that the worst of these problems are over. The situation has stabilised. But capacity constraints still remain, and one must add that the ethos and the principles of the new management system that is being introduced are simply going to compound the problems, because if we lack capacity to operate in terms of the old hierarchical rules-driven approach, the new approach is far more demanding, and the capacity constraints are a real concern.
But of the three spheres of government, clearly local government is the most problematic here, largely because, of course, there are vast disparities in the capacities of municipalities. Some of them, as we know, have budgets far larger than provinces and capacity which is equivalent.
The past decade has seen local government having to grapple with constant change - a constantly changing political, legislative environment. If there is any lesson that we have learnt from this, I think it is fair to say that while local government can deliver, it has been very easy in the past - and we must caution ourselves against it now - to build up false expectations of what is possible and what can be delivered, especially in respect of parts of the country where municipal governance, per se, is fairly new.
In respect of these three issues, I want to emphasise that of those three components - policy, capacity and the systems - we have made the best progress in the systems. The systems are there and we can build on those, and that is going to help immeasurably.
We have severe capacity constraints, however, and if we are going to improve delivery, we really need to expend a lot more energy in improving capacity. As for policy, well, of course, one can hardly expect unanimity when it comes to policy issues. We are going to have to beg to differ with one another. But if one looks at the outcomes of a whole range of policy issues - we could go way beyond the issues I have raised here, that is trade and industry, Aids, traditional leadership, privatisation - we are not satisfied that the outputs are adequate, and thus the policy itself needs to be reviewed. We would like to feed into a process to review some of these policy issues.
Finally, I think it is important to stress that Parliament itself has an important role to play in improving delivery. For example, we need to ensure that we pass legislation which is implementable. And part of implementation, of course, is the demand on our part that adequate funding goes for these Bills. There is actually no point in us passing Bills which, once promulgated, sit on the shelf, or do not even get promulgated because there is no funding. That is a fruitless exercise, and we should assert, strongly, a view that adequate funding must go with whatever legislation we pass in this House.
Also, I think the committees can play a far more important role in the strategic planning process. We always talk about committees getting involved in the budget process. But, in a sense, that is actually putting the cart before the horse. It is far more important, in some respects, to get involved in the strategic planning process, because that is where one is looking at the outcomes, that is where one is looking at the outputs and the service delivery indicators. Let us get involved in that process, and the budget will come right by itself.
Also, in scrutinising budgets in this House, we need to be far more rigorous in scrutinising the linkages between policy and delivery. We tend to view the things separately, instead of seeing the whole thing as a cycle and getting involved in scrutinising the cycle per se. Finally, may I say that in our oversight role we should really be far more involved in monitoring delivery expressly. If one takes, for example, simple things like accounting officers’ performance contracts, those should be tabled in committees. We should be discussing those performance contracts, because they are meant to be linked to delivery targets. Let us have sight of those. Let us get involved in them. Let us get involved in the process, for example by which those contracts are evaluated, because, in a sense, that is the top of the delivery pyramid - the accounting officers.
I think there is much that we can do as MPs in this House as well. There is much that needs to be done to improve delivery. We do not want to say that there has been failure across the board. Of course, there has not. That would be ridiculous. There has been much success. We do want to be fair in acknowledging where we have been successful, and to hope that in this debate people can point constructively to areas in which Government can focus greater retention. I think capacity, certainly, is one of them, and refinement of policies would be another. [Applause.]
Adv S P HOLOMISA: Madam Speaker, hon members, the ANC has as its primary objective the achievement of a better life for all South Africans. The successful fight for freedom from racial oppression and for political liberation was a means to an end - the attainment of true and genuine equality amongst all of our people irrespective of race. The Constitution itself embodies many of the aspirations which are espoused by the Freedom Charter.
The Constitution contains within it the instruments which are to be used to achieve the goal of a better life for all. The major instrument is government itself with its constituent spheres, departments, state organs and the three levels of governance, namely, national, provincial and local. Each of these components must deliver the services required of it for us to achieve the goal of a better life for all.
Accordingly, as the ANC we cannot but agree with the suggested topic: ``To achieve a better life for all, delivery has to improve at all levels.’’ As I have indicated, however, this imperative applies not only to the various levels of government but also to all organs of state, to civil society and, importantly, to the economic role-players of our society.
It is an elementary fact that local government is the tier of government which is best suited to bring about service delivery compared to the other tiers. Local government is close to the people. National and provincial governments deal more with policy formulation and law enactment. Local government gives practical meaning to those policies and laws by providing the people with essential services such as water, electricity, houses and so on.
Another accepted fact is that policies of previous governments neglected and marginalised black rural communities. While blacks were regarded as temporary sojourners in the urban areas, and allowed to stay only for as long as they served a useful purpose for white South Africa, no decent systems of governance were devised for effective service delivery to rural black South Africans. Even the indigenous systems of governance in the form of traditional authorities were manipulated in a way that came to be increasingly perceived as forcing traditional leaders to serve apartheid South Africa more than they did their people.
Fortunately, the damage caused has not been such as to completely destroy the credibility of the institution of traditional leadership in the eyes of the majority of our people. Its roots run too deep into the soil of Africa for anyone to destroy it. The White Paper on traditional leadership, whose formulation is still under way, has no choice but to give due recognition to the historical fact that effective service delivery to the majority of our people requires the active involvement of traditional leaders in matters of governance.
Already, partnerships are being established between traditional leaders and various state departments such as Health, Education, Social Development, Public Works, Safety and Security, Minerals and Energy Affairs and so on. Provincial governments and local councils actively solicit the support, co- operation and participation of traditional leaders as they plan and implement their programmes for service delivery.
Accordingly, when the law defining the role of traditional leaders is finally considered and passed by this Parliament it will be informed by these practical life experiences. Hon members need to remember that indigenous African constitutions do not depend on written documents to survive, but are to be found in the spiritual life of the people. Since we are a constitutional state, however, the upcoming law will be informed by this fact.
Members will also remember that at its last national conference in Mafikeng in 1997, the ANC adopted a resolution which entrenched the institution of traditional leadership. The President himself has repeatedly told traditional leaders in the past year that far from any desire to weaken traditional leadership his Government is committed to giving it more powers in order to ensure that traditional leaders continue to play the role which African history expects of them. The champion of the African Renaissance is, after all, the President of our country.
Kaloku mawethu i-ANC ngumbutho wesizwe; yinkundla yomz’ ontsundu ikakhulu. Ayikwazi ke ngoko ukuqhuba imicimbi yesizwe ngaphandle kweenkosi.
Abantwana begazi mabangoyiki; mabomelele baqhubele phambili nomsebenzi wabo wokuphuhlisa izizwe zabo. URhulumente uyazi ukuba ulwakhiwo lweendlela, ukombelwa kwemibhobho yamanzi, ukumiliselwa kweepali zogesi, ukwakhiwa kweekliniki nezikolo, ukuphuhliswa kwezolimo, ukulondolozwa kwendalo, ukombiwa kwamatye exabiso, zonke ezi zinto zidinga umhlaba, ezingabagcini bawo iinkosi.
I-ANC yasekwa ziinkosi namafanankosi. Phakathi koomongameli bayo kubekho uMafukuzela Dube, uAlbert Luthuli, uRholihlahla Mandela, iZizi, uThabo Mbeki. Bonke aba ngabantwana bakomkhulu. Abakwazi ke ngoko ukufulathela iminyanya yabo ngokuthi benze izinto ezichasa ubukhosi. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Hon members, we should remember that the ANC is a national organisation; it is mainly the black people’s organisation. It, therefore, could not possibly conduct the nation’s duties without traditional leaders.
Traditional leaders should not be afraid; they should continue with the task of developing the people. The Government knows that road the construction of roads, the installation of water pipes, the erection of electricity poles, building of clinics and schools, agricultural development, environmental care and mining, are all activities that need the soil which traditional leaders are looking after.
The ANC was established by traditional leaders and their subjects. Among their presidents there was Mr Mafukuzela Dube, Mr Albert Luthuli, Mr Rholihlahla Mandela and the man from the Zizi clan, Mr Thabo Mbeki. All of them are from the royal house. They could not, therefore, abandon their ancestors and do things that are in opposition to the royalty.]
We agree, therefore, as the ANC, that for a better life to be enjoyed by all, delivery has to take place at all levels, and one of these levels is the area of operation of traditional authorities. Parliament must accordingly make the necessary resources available to all organs of state, including traditional authorities, for this noble goal to be attained.
Elokugqibela, sele eqalisile amalungiselelo obalo lwabantu. Nalo olu balo, nokuba luqhutywa leliphi na isebe likaRhulumente, ukuze lube yimpumelelo phaya emaphandleni kufuneka kubekho intsebenziswano neenkosi. Abantu abaza kusebenza lo msebenzi mabakhe ubudlelwane nabantwana abahle, khon’ ukuze uRhulumente akwazi ukucwangcisa kakuhle xa elungiselela ukusondeza iinkonzo zakhe eluntwini. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[Furthermore, preparations for the census are underway. For the census to be successful, no matter which Government department is responsible for carrying out the task, there has to be co-operation with traditional leaders in the rural areas. People that are going to do this work should establish relationships with traditional leaders, so that the Government could be able to plan accordingly for effective delivery and accessibility of services.]
As all hon members should know, this is the era for unity in action for change to a better life for all. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
Mrs G M BORMAN: Madam Speaker, I rise to speak in support of the motion before the House. In 1994 the ANC promised a better life for all. What a sad failure the succeeding seven years have become! What a litany of mistakes, botch-ups, delays and disasters we have had to witness! And the only people who have a better life are the pocket-filling political elite and their pals.
Sometime in the 1960s a small group of hikers was exploring a tiny remote island in the South Pacific. One day they came across a strange man sitting outside a cave high up on the mountainside. He was not one of the locals, but was a Japanese. He was dressed in military uniform. His rifle was clean and at the ready. It turned out that he was part of a Japanese platoon that had occupied the island in World War II. When the Americans came to the island, they had killed or captured the whole platoon except this one man who had fled to the hills. There he had lived off the land, all by himself, for 20 years, still faithfully at his post, not knowing that the war was long since over.
The ANC remind me of that soldier. They spend most of their time fighting a war that finished years ago and which they won. Every time they speak they whinge about apartheid, carp about colonialism and blame the racists. They tinker with the transformer when they should be tuning up the engine of delivery and fulfilling their promises. And every time they whinge and whine about apartheid they fall into the trap of perpetuating the very racism they complain about.
The whinging campaign they are so bent on, however, has an obvious motivation. It serves as a smokescreen to conceal their lack of delivery. In fact, a recent survey conducted by the SA Institute for Race Relations proves that the issue of racism has been grossly hyped up by the Government and the media. Most South Africans are more worried about unemployment and crime. Racism is, in fact, only ninth on their list of unresolved problems.
Mr Mbeki, speaking at the opening of Parliament in February, told us that 1,1 million new jobs had been created during the period 1997-1999. Whom did he think he was kidding by quoting these selective statistics from the Statistics SA survey? Surely not the 5,8 million unemployed people.
It is this sort of head-in-the-sand denial that is causing so much confusion and lack of direction and delivery in our public life. With this sort of leadership it is hardly surprising that the Government has failed to deliver on its promise of jobs. In fact, there is so much confusion that the letters A, N and C could well be taken to denote ``African National Confusion’’. [Interjections.]
The R900 million Umsobomvu Fund, set up three years ago with the proceeds of Sanlam’s and Old Mutual’s demutualisation, which was supposed to create jobs for unemployed youth, has not yet been spent. Responding to criticism about the unspent funds, the CEO, Molose Kekana, said that a lot of confusion had been created because people did not understand how long it had taken to get things going. It took a year to appoint him as the CEO. He also said that if we do not take baby steps and put sound foundations in place, we will have a colossal failure. I suggest he moves a little quicker or some of today’s babies will be old people before they benefit. Once again, the plans are in place and so is the money, but so are the millions of unemployed people.
Much has already been said about the escalation of crime since the ANC took charge of our safety and security.
Mr B M SOLO: Madam Speaker, is the hon member prepared to take a question?
Mrs G M BORMAN: No, Madam Speaker. Much has already been said about the escalation of crime since the ANC took charge of our safety and security. We have never been more unsafe and more insecure. We have a Minister for this department who huffs and puffs around like Thomas the Tank Engine. [Laughter.]
He finds plots against the President and thunders threats against the Portuguese, but he does not catch the criminals. If he does, they are in one prison door and out the other. Because of his ineffectual department, people are emigrating in fear of their lives, tourists are staying away and foreign investment is being discouraged from coming to South Africa. The result is that our citizens have to pay their taxes for a police force and on top of that they have to pay again for private security protection and then again for increased insurance premiums. When our President was asked about the situation in a radio interview, he could only say: Look how bad things are in Colombia.
Finally, we have the ongoing Aids debacle. Four million people in South Africa are waiting and hoping for some help from the Government that has promised so much to them. To Aids sufferers, this Government delivers one gaffe after another. Recently the Brazilian government decided to ignore the patent rights of the Roche drug company in Switzerland to an antiretroviral drug which was being used to combat Aids. The Brazilian ambassador to Britain, speaking on the BBC, said that out of 200 000 Aids sufferers in Brazil, 100 000 had been helped by the use of this drug.
By contrast, President Mbeki has been surfing the Internet again, and heaven help us! The sad part of all this is that the people who hoped for so much have had those hopes dashed time and again. Instead of action, we have had to listen to promises and plans, whinging and whining. The whinging about race should stop and be replaced with strong decisive actions on jobs, crime and Aids. Let us have delivery. South Africa needs a government of winners, not whingers. [Applause.]
Mr J DURAND: Madam Speaker, the ANC, in its election campaign, promised houses, jobs and a better life for all. I said that that was what South Africans deserved. Every South African deserves a house, a job, access to proper health care, good education and a safe environment.
Government has failed dismally in its effort to deliver on its promises. What we have seen is job losses; small and inadequate houses; lowering of health standards; and hospitals becoming unsafe places, where rats bite children and elderly patients are assaulted and neglected.
Thakgalang village would not normally make the news. There are no major tourist attractions and the thousand or so people who live there are not famous or influential. In fact they are barely surviving. Just ask Mrs Elizabeth Monyela, her husband and their four children. They live in a shack of wood and corrugated iron, cannot find employment and, like other members of their village, have been without basic services like drinking water for more than two years. The perception is that Government has stopped caring about real people and decent South Africans are having to turn to extraordinary measures to support their own lives and those of their families.
Our schools have become centres of frustration and not of learning. The joint international Unesco and Unicef Monitoring Learning Achievement Project revealed that six years after liberation, 25% of primary school teachers are underqualified and that South African children performed worst in Africa in as far as numeracy, literacy and life skills were concerned. The doors of learning shall be opened for all.
The value of the rand has dropped by 142% since the ANC came to power. South Africa is only expected to achieve a domestic economic growth of about 2,5%, when we need at least 7% to address our 40% unemployment rate. We need to grow the economy. The ANC has failed dismally in addressing the needs of the people.
The dismissal by the Minister in the Presidency, Essop Pahad, of the above- mentioned survey by the SA Institute of Race Relations is foolish. This is yet another indication of the fact that the ANC Government has totally lost touch with reality and the needs of ordinary South Africans.
The recent study by Statistics SA, ``South African in transition’’, also found that the number of the unemployed had increased by more than 77% during the period 1995 to 1999. This is further proof of the magnitude of our unemployment problem.
As early as 1998, the Government promised to amend legislation that had a negative effect on job creation. Yet something significant is still to materialise, for the structure of South Africa’s rigid and overly regulated labour environment is left substantially intact by the latest proposed amendments. What South Africa needs most is bold steps to relax the overly regulated labour environment. This sends a clear message to investors that the South African Government and its alliance partners are serious about job creation and making the South African economy succeed.
Instead it is becoming increasingly clear that neither the Government nor Cosatu have the interest of the unemployed at heart. Evidence to support this is overwhelming. The economy has seen provincial actions against Government’s privatisition early this month and the national stayaway that took place on 29 and 30 August 2001. Ironically, that stayaway, two days before the World Conference against Racism in Durban, has shown the world that South Africa’s trade unions are still stuck in socialist ideologies, although they themselves have taken advantage of privatisation to acquire stakes in privatised enterprises.
One of the key constraints on growth in the South African economy, as cited by most research studies, has been the lack of skills among the labour force. Yet the disbursement machines of the national skills development strategy or sector education and training authorities, only paid out R47 million last year, or 3,7% of the R1,25 billion collected for that purpose. This is a significant indictment of the lack of responsibility of the Department of Labour, for the Setas were touted as important instruments in providing skills to the South African workforce in order to combat unemployment and the concomitant social problems of South Africa.
Government should take the lead in implementing a long-term vision of wealth creation for South Africa and set the example by following a strict fiscal policy, for the persistent rate of unemployment will only serve to worsen the serious social problems faced in South African society, which, in turn, will further serve as a disincentive to foreign investors. [Applause.]
Mna M N RAMODIKE: Mohlomphegi Modulasetulo, mokgatlo wa UDM o thekga kgopolo ya IFP yeo e rotogago ka tšhišinyo ye. Re kwana le mokgatlo wa IFP gore go mphsafatša le go kaonefatša maphelo a batho ke go iša ditirelo setšhabeng, go tloga ka mmušo wa gare go ya go mmušo wa diprofense, go theogela go mebušo ya selegae, elego ya bommasepala. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)
[Mr M N RAMODIKE: Madam Speaker, the UDM supports the sentiments of the IFP that are reflected in this motion. We are in agreement with the view of the IFP that the renewal and improvement of the quality of life of the people will only take place through service delivery, from central Government, from the provincial governments, right down to local governments, ie the municipalities.]
At national level the ANC-led Government has made some strides, especially in the land reform programmes, electrification of rural areas and passage of several pieces of legislation mandated by the Constitution. The rolling over of funds not spent by various Government departments from one financial year to the other remains, however, a problem and cause for concern. The UDM is particularly alarmed at the poor delivery and/or lack of delivery of services at provincial and local levels of governance. We wish to use a statistical barometer as a performance measurement or assessment.
It is alarming to note, according to Statistics SA, that of the 11 million households in South Africa in 1999, not less than 61% did not have running tap water. Some 12% of African household relied on flowing water, streams, wells and springs as their water sources. Not less than 42% of Africans travelled long distances of between 100m and 2km to fetch water for domestic consumption.
Old border industries which created thousands of jobs for people who live in poverty stricken areas at the periphery are now white elephants, because the Government has withdrawn the industrial incentives that attracted investors to relocate to these isolated areas. Municipalities and provincial governments have abandoned the tarring of roads and rehabilitation programmes in rural areas. It is irreconcilable that priority has been given to urban areas which were not previously disadvantaged by the apartheid regime.
In September 1999 the Minister of Transport said that the Government was formulating plans to develop better roads in rural areas as part of Government’s overall strategy of integrated rural development. The department has thus far not provided any indication on how it planned to make roads better. The nation is waiting for delivery. In September 1999 the department … [Time expired.]
Mr G D SCHNEEMAN: Madam Speaker, comrades, hon members, the dream of millions and millions of our people was the creation of a better life for all. That dream stopped being a dream and became a living reality for our people in 1994 when the ANC was voted into power. It was the first step towards the creation of a better life for all. In the seven years since then, great strides have been made by the ANC-led Government, and we have seen the lives of millions of our people change, nothing like the stories I have just heard now. A solid foundation has been laid consisting of sound policies and laws. This has, in turn, resulted in Government programmes that have been implemented throughout our land, directly impacting on the daily lives of our people.
Some sitting here today and others who may be watching on TV say that nothing has changed. They complain about a pothole in the road or a street light that does not work. And based on that they do not understand when we as the ANC say that there has been progress and that the lives of people have changed or are changing, and will continue to change.
I would like to suggest to the hon Mrs Borman and the hon Mr Durand that perhaps they should get up from their desks and go out of the gates of Parliament into the real world and see what is happening, and speak to the people of this land, and they will tell them. [Applause.]
In just seven short years, millions of people have gained access to running water, housing, electricity, health care, land, education and tarred roads, amongst other things.
One of the key areas in creating a better life for all has been the provision of adequate shelter. Over 5 million people have benefited from the housing subsidy programme. They live in secure homes on land which they own and for which they have received title deeds. Over 300 000 housing units have been transferred to those who live in them and they have received title deeds. They own them and this programme is continuing.
Inner-city renewal programmes are taking place in which unused buildings are being converted into housing units and new housing units are being built. The People’s Housing Process enables communities to become actively involved in the building and planning of their own homes, resulting in the reduction of building costs and the provision of bigger homes. Many communities are involved in this programme, including, most notably, women.
The urban renewal programme announced by the President earlier this year, and which has been started in Alexandra, is intended to totally transform the area and to improve and, in many cases, provide new infrastructure. If one drives past Alexandra today, one will see this work in progress.
All of the programmes which I have mentioned result in the achievement of a better life for all and the visible delivery of infrastructure and services. We see new roads, electricity being supplied to homes, schools and clinics being built, and water and sewerage facilities being supplied, amongst other things. The ANC-led Government has also implemented programmes to help communities become actively involved in small-scale businesses such as the growing of vegetables and the production of eggs. These programmes are meant to help communities in achieving a better life for themselves.
The programmes of delivery taking place are in line with the policies of the ANC as outlined in its various documents. These are not just documents, but are transformed into living reality which changes the lives of our people. I want in particular to refer to the Freedom Charter. I would suggest to members of the opposition that they should read this document. If they do so, they will notice that we are putting in practice what we have said. It is not only on paper.
The provision of a certain amount of free water and electricity is an ANC policy. Some in this House seem to think that they came up with the idea of providing a certain amount of free water. I want to inform those people that if they think that the ANC-led Government has good policies, then they should say they support the Government and will do all they can to support its successful implementation. They should not come up with stories afterwards of what they thought they have tried to do.
Whilst we have made remarkable achievements, and we also acknowledge that we need to do more, we also face challenges in this nation as well: the availability of land and the cost of land. The ANC-led Government is committed to finding solutions and implementing policies which will address this. Programmes such as the Rapid Land Release Programme are in place. Informal settlements are a reality and we need to continue to implement programmes aimed at the upgrading and eradication of informal settlements where possible.
We appeal to communities in our country to work with the Government and together help change their areas and their lives in a sustainable manner. A critical challenge which has arisen is the issue of shack farming, which many landowners have embarked on. They see this as a means of making money quickly without taking into consideration the long-term negative effects this will have. They create areas which do not have any basic services and use land which may not be suited for housing. We appeal to landowners to think further than their own pockets and to help find lasting solutions rather than creating serious local, social and economic problems.
Landowners often object to housing developments taking place. This often leads to delays and causes communities to become frustrated. Instead, I would appeal to landowners to ask how they can help. They should further ask what they can do to ensure that this development is sustainable and it takes place.
As public representatives and public servants in this land, we should see ourselves as servants of the people, with our primary objective being to improve the lives of all our people. This should be our driving motivation. While the Government has its role to play, which it must play, there is also a role for communities and civil society to play. As a united nation, we must help each person to achieve a better life. As one people, we must respond to the President’s call for unity in action. [Applause.]
Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Madam Speaker, the world is an imperfect place, so we must expect South Africa to be an imperfect society. This then begs the question: How should we then govern in an imperfect society? Good governance is the remedy to an imperfect society.
This Government must show commitment to get rid of corruption and incompetent officials. In order to improve the basic service needs of the people, Government must demand first-rate quality management from officials at the different levels of government, such as municipalities, hospitals, police and other primary government functions. Good governance is about implementation and, of course, finance is always the major problem we face to implement idealistic policies.
The new local government system has yet to prove that it is able to render effective and efficient service delivery when most municipalities do not even have the financial capacity to exist. The underdevelopment of health, safety, housing, security services and socioeconomic delivery initiatives is a sign of weak managements and weak systems that are not able to eradicate poverty.
Although there are sound fiscal policies, somehow these are not adequately trickling down to raise the average person’s lifestyle quality above the poverty line, and this does not set the stage for a stable economy. We have an HIV/Aids pandemic that could see the death rate rise by 20% per annum over the next 10 to 20 years, and yet Government is uncertain of its duty in this regard.
In order to improve the lives of people Government must commit itself to developing the capacities at the various levels of Government and embark on a strategic plan to educate people in becoming self-reliant rather than a total dependency on the state. [Applause.]
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Speaker and hon members, the Government has a long way to go if it is to achieve a better life for all, and this they cannot do all by themselves. They are fortunate that they have willing partners on this route in the form of the combined opposition.
Many pieces of legislation passed by Parliament are not being enforced, simply because the planning was not done well. Rolls Royce pieces of legislation like the equality Act are not being enforced because of lack of funds. It is surprising that consultants were engaged to see to it that such legislation was passed, because that was demanded by the Constitution. Further than that, delivery of the content is not visible.
In October last year the Deputy President was at pains to call on the nation to review and revert to acceptable moral behaviour. But since then we have come across shocking incidents within Government. Large sums of money have been paid to the likes of Coleman Andrews, yet people live in abject poverty. When challenged on this Government could only say that was a mistake never to be repeated.
In most parastatals trustees of Government who have been hand-picked are sitting with their backs against the wall, struggling to account for funds they misused. Government has to learn that enriching or capacitating a chosen few does not assist in improving the quality of life of citizens.
There are many measured introduced by Government that place people in an invidious position. Departments of social welfare in almost all the provinces, in their efforts to get rid of ghost pensioners, remove names of people from pension rolls, and it takes an eternity to reinstate deserving and legitimate cases. Provincial education departments advise teachers to retire, and it takes up to six months before such teachers receive their monthly pensions. The failure to pay pensions to deserving people is a failure to deliver, and that cannot make anybody’s life better.
The current stand-off between Government and the public servants is another case in point. It borders on insensitivity on the part of a Minister of state to go on television and say public servants can resign and go where they will find jobs. What exacerbates the whole issue is when a court of law vindicates the strikers. Government should expect that if they pay peanuts they will have monkeys who delight in playing in the streets with no delivery whatsoever. As much as the Government wants to give a better life to people, they should deliver better services. [Applause.]
Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Speaker, the PAC supports the IFP’s timely motion which reads:
To achieve a better life for all, delivery has to improve at all levels.
Failing to deliver is to achieve a bitter life. It is to perpetuate the two nations of haves and have-nots.
The PAC holds that the provision of social services in this country is unequal. The Government must seek to distribute social services equitably. It must use the distribution of social services as part of the broader strategy to share resources and social services in a just manner. [Interjections.] Without this, there can be no talk of delivery. The African population in South Africa constitutes 77,6%. Over ten million of this section live in filthy shacks fit for pigs. Forty-four per cent of this population is unemployed. This population has fewer opportunities for education and the acquisition of technical skills. It is a population which is landless, poor and victim to diseases. It is a population which has the highest infant mortality rate and the shortest life expectancy.
Ironically, this is the population that was being liberated. It bore the brunt of the struggle against colonialism and apartheid. It is now fast becoming a population of third-class citizens, who do not even have a place to sleep and are threatened with arrest if they demand to be put in possession of the land of their ancestors, seized through brutal colonialism. [Interjections.]
In many parts of this country, especially in the rural areas, roads are atrocious and health institutions have no medicines and ambulances. School children are very deprived. Many schools have no laboratories or libraries. Many rural areas are still without clean water. They are infected with cholera. [Interjections.] The laws of the country protect the rich rather than the poor, and worship the demigod of eurocentricity. [Time expired.]
Mr J P I BLANCHÉ: Madam Speaker, for a party which is serious about delivery, I want you to look at the empty seats of the ANC. [Interjections.] What I find interesting about the motion is that IFP member Smith is itchy about service delivery by the Government of which he is a coalition partner. [Interjections.] However, I find myself supporting Madam Speaker, who is reported in Rapport of 26 August as saying, and I quote:
Die Parlement het sedert 1999 agteruitgegaan, en is ná 1994 nie meer dieselfde plek as voor daardie tyd nie. Die swak bywoning is kommerwekkend.
Is member Madikizela-Mandela in the House? [Interjections.] Is member Smith here? This means a deterioration since Mr Mandela and a further deterioration since Mr Mbeki. [Interjections.] If member Smith and the Speaker have doubts about their ruling parties, who am I to argue with the two of them? I have only been back for six months. I was here before 1994 and I agree with both of them - it has deteriorated.
But, unlike the Speaker, I am more concerned about the Government’s poor service delivery than Parliament’s performance. Let me quote one example from the Department of Safety and Security, seeing that we are talking about a better life. [Interjections.]
The front page of the Boksburg Advertiser of 31 August shows the bodies of three people burnt to death, and states ``seven murdered in one week in Boksburg’’, with a full-page photograph of the burnt bodies of the three security guards who were abducted and shot dead. Turnkey Facility Management employed them. Aluminium valued at R100,000 and a Toyota were stolen. That is the price of the three lives. The other deaths are also robbery related and involve shop owners and security guards. Because the Government cannot deliver, South Africans have to employ security guards who lose their lives. [Interjections.] [Time expired.]
Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, reigns supreme. Its preamble advocates a mission to institute a better life for all.
We have united in this task. Positions, tools and plans are all in place and the engines are running. We have come a long way since 1994. Many efforts and long hours of work have resulted in success, and sadly some efforts have not, but the road does not end here. Planning, reparation and determination push us forward to achieve our ends.
A rainbow nation we are called, and among all our diversities are encapsulated an abundance of talent and strength. The MF finds that our success is rich in this. The MF feels that however rich we may be in these abilities and our ability to enforce our plans and deliver the outcome, the end is crucial. To achieve this better life for all it is not our potential ability to attain these ends that leads to success, but rather our actual ability to utilise that potential, and utilise it efficiently and effectively.
The MF also realises that this effectiveness and efficiency are hardly attained as an individual effort but through working together. Renowned success as a united group effort is the key. We have embarked upon a better life for all in our Constitution. We have drawn up plans and instituted some of them to achieve a successful delivery, and regarding those that are not so successful the MF suggests that we put our heads together to achieve a means to overcome our problems.
The MF agrees that a cleanup has to be done at all levels to improve our output, to assure our success at delivery and, even more importantly, to ensure that we uphold our Constitution in its ambition to ensure a better life for all. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, there are two crucial phrases in our topic of discussion which must be described a little bit more. The first one is the word ``delivery’’. When speaking about delivery one might be intended to visualise Father Christmas with his bag full of presents and sliding down the chimney to deliver those presents. When asked about how he filled his bag, one may think about Robin Hood taking from the rich and giving to the poor. And, who is Father Christmas - of course, President Mbeki. Who is Robin Hood - Minister Trevor Manuel.
That is not what delivery means, at least, not sustainable delivery. When it comes to the function of Government, it is not about hand-outs, but policies that create an environment for growth, and facilitating the human and material resources of South Africa in such a way that they create a better life for all.
That brings us to the second phrase, `` a better life for all’’. Surely, this includes every South African, community, and group. And a better life, yes, relates to material things such as houses, jobs and health services. Members should make no mistake, the AEB supports every sound and reasonable measure to uplift the material situation of the poor, irrespective of race, colour or creed. Poverty must be combated seriously.
However, this better life also includes things like values, real freedom, safety, relations, uplifting of the moral fibre of our people, and not being marginalised as an individual or as a community. It includes the protection and promotion of what is dear to a person in the field of culture, language and religion; combating the perception of being disenfranchised as a community; and being allowed to deliver one’s speech without being interrupted.
Lastly, this better life and delivery is not the sole responsibility of Government alone. It is a state of mind of a whole population. It involves the responsibility of community leaders, educators, employers and employees. It implies an open hand and heart for the poor. South Africa has enough resources. The name of the game is not the redistribution of wealth but the creation of wealth. [Time expired.]
Mr S A MSHUDULU: Madam Speaker, hon members and distinguished guests, I would like to invite the opposition to listen or hearken to the words of wisdom.
It is opportune for me to join in the debate on behalf of the ANC, the only agent for change. The subject matter, today, should be understood in the context of the ANC manifesto which talks about accelerating change for a better life for all.
For us, in the ANC, it is about the mandate that the majority of South Africans gave us in the 1994, 1999 and 2000 elections - ``together fighting for change’’. The subject matter should also be understood in the context of Chapter 3 of the Constitution, which deals with intergovernmental relations. Our present ANC Government is faced with backlogs that are a result of the apartheid legacy. Government programmes on infrastructure service delivery are hampered by bad planning and poor infrastructure that is expensive to replace.
To remedy the problem created by the apartheid system, the ANC-led Government has clustered the departments in order to maximise the outputs in service delivery. This integrated approach, which focuses on delivery, is also reflected in the financial budgeting and accountability systems in the legislative framework, especially at local government level, where service delivery is most practical and can be measured.
The integrated development planning approach to development is one measure that best demonstrates the commitment of this Government to improving delivery at all levels and spheres of Government. The IDP processes are, in essence, instruments whereby the people shape and inform delivery policies and budgets from below.
The IDP process itself has been structured to facilitate co-operative governance. The process requires provinces to provide frameworks for municipalities to draw up their plans for a better co-ordinated planning process. The Department of Provincial and Local Government is currently studying the IDP of different communities with a view to advising the Treasury about issues that come from communities in order to give the budget a meaning from below.
I must say that it has never happened in the history of mankind that a government which is led by victims of oppression, humiliation, degradation and discrimination, let alone marginalisation, can, within a short space of time and with limited resources, progressively deliver so much to many millions of its population. The achievements by this Government, so far, include: the realignment of municipal wards aimed at consolidating the fair distribution of resources in the country; institutionalising, through legislation, community participation in the planning, budgeting and service delivery processes; and putting in place robust measures of accountability to fight corruption in the public sector. All these are in the interest of improving service delivery at all levels of Government.
As said before, the delivery sphere is that of local government. It has undoubtedly been a remarkable achievement to put in place the new system of local government. The implementation of the new system of local government is also a big challenge to Government at all levels as well as to the entire civil society. For Government, the challenge is to build the capacity and allocate adequate resources to the sphere of sound delivery at all levels of Government and society. The challenge for this civil society is to participate actively in the process that affects their lives.
We are challenged, as politicians from the national Government down to councillor level, to monitor the capacity and progress at this level. This should be in the core of our constituency work. As members of Parliament, jointly with councillors and provincial governments, we need to facilitate the emulation by municipalities of what other municipalities are doing, like the Sedibeng District Municipality in Gauteng South, where I am deployed, towards assessing the progress with the new system for improving service delivery at all levels of Government.
This is the approach that can give guidance on how we facilitate the implementation of the integrated development planning strategies that the President outlined in this House at the beginning of this year. The Department of Provincial and Local Government has so far trained more than 7 000 councillors for the effective implementation of the new system of local government. Community members are also taken on board to facilitate community-municipality partnerships during the service delivery process. It would be advisable for all politicians at different levels of government to be exposed to some of the training around the new system.
Could the opposition please take note that it is through the progressive policies of the ANC that the majority of the people in our country experience and are willing to contribute to the process of change. It is through the ANC’s policies that people unite in action for change. It is as a result of the ANC’s position as agents for change that the lives of the people should change for the better. It is not by being agents for the media that one would contribute to a better life for all.
It is through the ANC’s pursuit of qualitative, sustainable change and development that the issue of the institution of traditional leadership is being addressed in a holistic approach. We all hope that as the Government, we are nearing the finalisation of the process of defining the role of the institution of traditional leaders in relation to the new system of local government, without undermining their current obligations towards development and co-operative governance.
In conclusion, the census scheduled for October is critical to facilitating the efficient provision of service delivery.
Ndiza kulandela emva kwenkosi, uZanemvula. URhulumente wenza isicelo sokuba abantu beze ngaphambili kolu balo lwabantu luzayo. Oku kubalulekile, ngakumbi kuhlahlo lwabiwo-mali kunye nokuziswa kweenkonzo kuluntu luphela.
Olu balo lwabantu lufika ngexesha elibalulekileyo lokusekwa koomasipala abatsha. SinguRhulumente silungiselela ukuba oomasipala babe nakho ukufikelela nokufikeleleka kuluntu lonke. Ngoko ke iza kunceda into yokuba sisebenzisane namagosa ukuncedisana noRhulumente kolu balo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)
[I will add to what was said by the chief, Zanemvula. The Government is calling on all the people to come forward so that they can be counted. This is important for the budget and service delivery to all the people.
This census has come at a very critical time, that of formulating new municipalities. We, as the Government, are preparing for the municipalities to be accessible to everybody. Therefore, it will be important for us to work together with the officials and assist the Government with the census. [Applause.]]
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Madam Speaker, on the whole, the debate has been focused, except, of course, for a few hysterical voices. Of course, there are some people with whom one should never argue because, as the warning goes, they might not see the difference.
Service delivery, as my colleague hon member Peter Smith has indicated, goes beyond just providing statistics, which are often used either as a stick with which to beat the Government for the perceived or actual nondelivery of services - I think this is what some parties have attempted to do - or as a defensive weapon by the Government to prove its delivery of services.
A closer look at and beyond the figures raises a number of questions that are central to service delivery. Firstly, to what extent will the services be sustained? Will the poor be able to pay for services in future? Secondly, who are the beneficiaries of the services and how are they selected? Thirdly, to what extent do the delivery mechanisms empower the poor?
To be meaningful at all, service delivery must bring together both qualitative and quantitative analyses. We are now nearing the end of the second quarter of the fiscal year. One therefore has to ask whether the Government, at all levels, is managing to deliver. The release of spending figures for the first quarter of the fiscal year does in fact show that the Government is spending its budget very slowly. The most familiar reason for this low spending and nondelivery is capacity constraints, as my colleague has pointed out.
We are aware of the Government’s intentions to draw in skilled people by paying them well, but what programmes are in place to empower the poor and the previously disadvantaged? Some roll-overs in provincial departments of education, for instance, have been as a result of the incapacity of school governing bodies in budgeting processes. These school governing bodies, especially those from the previously disadvantaged areas, are expected through funding norms and standard requirements to administer a variety of privileges for which they have no skills.
We want to argue, therefore, that some of Government’s delivery mechanisms are of a questionable nature. They may be suitable for the First World environment, but are definitely out of step with undeveloped or developing communities, such as our rural communities. It is important that development, in the form of service delivery, is tailored to the existing bloc of our society; in other words, features of the existing communities - their defining characteristics - must be respected.
We sincerely believe that progress in service delivery can be achieved in rural areas through the evolution of existing structures. Why is it that sometimes we appear very eager to bypass, and even to transform out of existence, the existing structures? Each time we do this, delivery to the poorest of the poor suffers tremendously. A better life for all? Yes, we do not doubt the Government’s commitment to this objective which has given hope to millions of our people. We, however, wish to question the missionary zeal which has manifested itself in some departments and certain individuals.
Service delivery has sometimes been muddied by the desire of certain departments and individuals to want, simultaneously, to make political proselytes out of the recipients of delivery projects. In the classical missionary type of delivery one either converts to the missionary’s church and one gets help, or gets nothing. In this sense, service delivery can be very dehumanising, indeed, to the recipient of that delivery project. Is this what we want? I hope not. When we call for transformation, we are not calling for structural transformation only, but we are also calling for attitudinal transformation.
One may well imagine that somewhere there is a huge pile of projects and plans gathering dust, while the bureaucrats drag their feet. We must know that our civil service is a mixed bag. In that bag are those officials who are already suffering from professional burnout and they are in a rut. One cannot expect any service delivery from that lot. Also in that mixed bag are those officials who have never developed any work ethic. Sheer laziness is their lot. The third type in the bag are the dedicated officials on whose shoulders effective delivery rests. Of course, we, as members of Parliament, belong in one of these mixes.
I remember very vividly the words which my leader, Dr Buthelezi, used to exhort members of the party to change their attitudes towards work. He said, and I quote:
Work is not work when you knock off at a predetermined time. That is entertainment. Work is work when you go on working until it hurts.
Work contains in it an element of sacrifice. Evidently, some have been entertaining themselves for most of their lives. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, before I start I think it is important to share with you one of the brief stories by a member of the parliament of Uganda, the hon Grace. During a conference held in Bonn, Germany last week to discuss food security and how we should deal with issues of hunger and poverty in the world, she said something very interesting. As part of that debate, the trends and scenarios were looking at what is going to happen in sub-Saharan Africa, East Asia and South America as well as in Europe and the United States of America in the coming years. Clearly, the picture portrayed was one of gloom and pessimism because there is difficulty as to what will happen in sub-Saharan Africa in the coming years. But what was puzzling was the fact that when we asked what the basis was of the analysis which came up with such results we could not find an answer.
Grace then made a very interesting observation. She asked us all to imagine a triangle, which, as we know, is very thin at the top and broader at the base, and imagine the few who are at the top and are rich and comfortable, the majority who are poor and are at the base, and those who are trying and are in between and living comfortably. She said if one remained with that bulk growing, those at the bottom would try to go up so that they could become the rich. If they were blocked, on the one hand, they would try another route to go up to the apex of the triangle. She said at the end if nothing happened, they would find ways and means to go and live at the top.
For me this was a lesson that indeed if we are not able to deal with some of the challenges of our past we will not be able to change the situation or the lot of our poor. But clearly again, it reminded me that while there may have been the few in the past apartheid society who lived comfortably, those of us who are in the majority, who were poor, have actually come to their world, and that is why the situation has changed. What it means is that all of us in the middle are trying to move up from the bottom, but definitely very few are remaining at the top. If nothing further changes, those who are at the top will come down.
I am saying this because of the intervention made by some of the hon members, particularly the hon member Borman of the DP. In my view, her response clearly showed that indeed the situation has changed for the worse for her because she has never known the bad. A number of us here who have known the challenges of poverty are seeing the difference.
I would like to thank hon Smith very much for bringing this topic before the House today. The way in which he and the hon Mpontshane in particular have participated in the debate has shown that he did not just bring the debate for the sake of debate but he wanted to highlight some of the challenges that face all of us as Government. I would also like to thank hon Aucamp for the way in which he highlighted the fact that indeed any sustainable development will not need a Father Christmas or a Robin Hood, but will need all of us.
One of the things that other members in the debate, particularly those from the opposition, missed was the last part of the topic, which says delivery must happen at all levels. It did not say ``at National government level’’. Interestingly, three parties that sit in this House, even those in the minority, but who wish a responsibility either at local or provincial government level, are all in it. I had hoped that in the way in which we examine and assess where we are we would take collective responsibility, because it is not just the ANC-led Government, but all of us who have the responsibility of governing either at provincial or at local level. [Interjections.]
Dr A S NKOMO: Go jwalo! [That is true!]
The MINISTER: It is this spirit from the IFP that was very interesting, because as they were examining the debate they were not apportioning blame unnecessarily, but they were saying there is a need to refine and retune; there is a need to do more than we have done. I also want to thank members of the ANC very much indeed for also participating in the debate in a manner that does not seek to defend, but states the facts and acknowledges that more still needs to be done.
Following the last speaker on this debate it is very clear that indeed all of us in this Assembly need to remind ourselves of where we come from as a country and as a nation. Clearly, today’s discussion should be located within the proper political context with regard to the history of development in South Africa. For many years we were a country divided not only by race or class, but also on the basis of when development would come to whom.
Uma wawungesiyo ingxenye yalabo bantu ababebaliwe, bekhethiwe futhi beyidlanzana elimhlophe, kwakungasho ukuthi uyingxenye yomphakathi. Kwakuya nokuthi labo abaphethe uma becabanga ukuthi bazokusiza ngabe ubaluleke kangakanani kubona. Ngakho kwakungasho ukuthi unesidingo esingakanani ukuze ukwazi ukulekelelwa kodwa kwakuya ngokwebala nangezinga okulo. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.) [If you were not part of the few white people who were mentioned and elected, it meant that you were not part of the community. It also depended on how important you were to those who could help you. To get assistance, it all depended on a person’s colour and social status, not on how needy that person was.]
In essence, poverty itself was institutionalised. Through policy, social spending was divided according to the social stratification of the apartheid system. Therefore, in our discussion and in the measurement of the miles we have travelled, we should not forget the enormity of the problem we have had to deal with.
Some of us started to feel human and have dignity only in 1994. So it is not surprising that to some this change was just a change of format and was not very drastic, and therefore for them it was still business as usual. For some of us it has not been like that, but has been the beginning and a tough challenge.
In adopting the Reconstruction and Development Programme we, as the ANC, as well as this august House, were conscious that ours would not be easy task, but one that needed to be done nonetheless. Former President Nelson Mandela, in his inaugural address to this House, in May 1994, captured it very correctly when he said, and I quote:
My Government’s commitment to create a people-centred society of liberty binds us to the pursuit of the goals of freedom from want, freedom from hunger, freedom from deprivation, freedom from ignorance, freedom from suppression and freedom from fear. These freedoms are fundamental to the guarantee of human dignity. They will therefore constitute part of the centrepiece of what this Government will seek to achieve, the focal point on which our attention will continuously be focused.
The Reconstruction and Development Programme, therefore, was a framework according to which this Government had to build a new society. I am happy to say that the journey we have travelled so far confirms that this ANC-led Government has lived up to its challenge, conscious, of course, that the journey has not come to an end.
In meeting the basic needs of our people, we have given shelter to those who were homeless and hope to those that are still waiting, that their turn will come. We have given land back to those people who were victims of forced removals and the betterment scheme of the apartheid government. We have given water and health to the rural communities. We have brought access to health to many who never dreamt that one day their village would have a clinic.
We have also understood that in order to deal with the legacy of our painful past, more had to be done, not just in terms of delivery of services, transformation and building of the economy, but also in terms of democratising the state and society. The transformation of our public institutions and the building of a public service corps that is conscious of its role are some of the deliverables that we have had to undertake. I must say that the intervention of the IFP around this matter is very correct. Because unless we have capacity at that level, whatever good legislation or policies we pass in this Parliament will come to nought. Delivery has to occur at all levels. The principle of participatory democracy that we have created in part acknowledges the role of co- operative governance. It is for this reason that the devolution of responsibility to the various spheres was done in such a way that it allowed for independence and interdependence in implementing policy and programmes. However, we continue to have a challenge in this area, which we will continue to have to work at, not just as the ANC, but as all parties in this House.
It is clear that the task of fundamental transformation of our society at all levels is an enormous challenge. It will require that at a given time we deal with issues of development as a collective, not as individual parties, relevant to our call as the ANC, for unity in action. In attempting to deal with the challenges that we still continue to face, I must say that the challenge of nation-building, eradication of poverty and hunger, building a nonracial and nonsexist society, as well as dealing with issues of illiteracy and building our economy, are matters which we as the ANC will continue with until all of our people have achieved a better life. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The House adjourned at 16:17. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Finance:
Report and Financial Statements of Statistics South Africa for 2000-
2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements of Vote 31 - Statistics South Africa for 2000-2001 [RP 103-
2001].
- The Minister of Social Development:
Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Social Development
for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements of Vote 35 - Social Development for 2000-2001.
- The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:
The South African Law Commission's Fifth Interim Report on Aspects of
the Law relating to Aids, Project 85 [RP 78-2001].