National Assembly - 19 September 2001

WEDNESDAY, 19 SEPTEMBER 2001 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 15:03.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

QUESTIONS AND REPLIES - see that book.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Miss M N MAGAZI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  United States initiatives to rally the international community
       to fight against terrorism are leading to an emergence of
       coalition;


   (b)  whilst many key allies of the United States have pledged their
       support to fight terrorism, they are reluctant on the prospect
       of launching strikes against Afghanistan; and


   (c)  the Markinor survey released yesterday indicated that the South
       African population is deeply divided on launching strikes
       against Afghanistan, with 44% supporting the attack and 46%
       against the attack;

(2) supports investigation to bring the perpetrators of this terror attack to book; and

(3) restates its view that the United States must not embark on actions that will -

   (a)  polarise the world and threaten international peace and
       solidarity;


   (b)  kill innocent and unarmed civilians - especially women and
       children; and


   (c)  spread negative sentiments ...

[Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms R TALJAARD: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the Minister of Defence has, since February, failed to answer
       specific questions relating to the arms procurement deal;


   (b)  the Minister of Finance cites exemptions of the Access to
       Information Act to avoid releasing the Roland White memoranda;
   (c)  the Minister of Public Enterprises ignores correspondence
       raising questions about parastatals' investments at Coega; and


   (d)  the Minister of Trade and Industry reveals minimal information
       on offset projects;

(2) hopes that the Ministers are co-operating with the Joint Investigating Team more transparently; and

(3) calls on these Ministers to live up to their promises made at a press conference at Johannesburg International Airport to act transparently, not in collective obfuscation.

[Applause.]

Prince N E ZULU: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes with shock and dismay the injury to 30 people as a result of a heavy storm and lightning reported at Tembisa and surrounding areas in Gauteng;

(2) appeals to every citizen that, although the storms, the snows, the floods, etc, are all acts of God, His folk must remain vigilant and alert to any eventuality in our troubled times; and

(3) expresses its sympathy to all affected people for the loss of property and disruption of business in the area.

Mr L M KGWELE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the Israeli armed forces withdrew from the Gaza Strip in response to the Israeli Prime Minister’s call for a ceasefire;

(2) further notes that the Leader of the Palestinian Authority, Mr Yasser Arafat, gave orders to the Palestinian police not to shoot at the Israeli armed forces;

(3) believes that the cessation of hostility from both sides provides an opportunity for the resumption of negotiations;

(4) welcomes the truce; and

(5) calls on the leaders and the people of Israel and Palestine to work towards a peaceful resolution of the Middle East crisis.

[Applause.]

Dr W A ODENDAAL: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DA:

That the House -

(1) takes note with horror that a single syndicate uncovered by the Police in Johannesburg was able to sell 11 000 forged driving licences to the amount of R16,5 million;

(2) recognises that in road safety terms, this translates into 11 000 licences to kill more innocent South African motorists, passengers and pedestrians; and

(3) urges the Minister of Transport to act decisively to stop the carnage on South African roads or, if he lacks the courage to do so, to retire gracefully rather than once again to demonstrate the ANC Government’s impotence to deal with criminality on South Africa’s roads.

Mrs Z A KOTA: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: The hon member moved the motion on behalf of the DA and there is no DA in the House. There is the DP and the New NP.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is not really the first time that members have mentioned the DA, but, in fact, that is not accurate. There is no party called the DA in this Parliament. [Interjections.] Mr S ABRAM: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) strongly condemns the apparent arson attack on the Muslim Judicial Council head office during the early hours of this morning;

(2) fervently hopes that in this time of high emotional tension, all South Africans will demonstrate restraint and that, as a nation, we shall exercise tolerance, respect and understanding; and

(3) calls on all citizens of South Africa to unite against all forms of terrorism and violence, and urges the law enforcers to find the perpetrators and bring them to book.

Mrs T P SHILUBANA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House - (1) notes that in August 2001 the inflation rate reached its target of 6%, ahead of the expectation of analysts;

(2) further notes that this Government has established a regime of macroeconomic responsibility that has enabled the economy of this country to recover and has laid the foundation for economic growth;

(3) commends the Reserve Bank and the National Treasury for reaching this target; and

(4) calls on investors, both national and international, to-

   (a)  recognise that the economy of this country has never before been
       so soundly managed; and


   (b)  make productive investments that will enhance growth,
       development and employment, which will benefit not only their
       own bottom line, but also the country and the economy of our
       country.

[Applause.] Dr P W A MULDER: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die VF sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis daarvan kennis neem dat -

(1) die Vryheidsfront gedurende die parlementêre reses ‘n volwaardige tak van die party in Londen gestig het;

(2) die VF tot hierdie stap besluit het in die lig van die groot aantal Afrikaanssprekendes wat hulle tans in Londen bevind;

(3) die party van mening is dat hierdie jongmense nie in ‘n politieke vakuum vir ‘n jaar of meer gelaat kan word nie, maar dat hulle polities ingelig moet bly en aan hulle hoop gegee moet word om weer na Suid-Afrika terug te keer; en

(4) hierdie VF-tak in Londen hom onder meer daarvoor sal beywer dat, anders as in die 1999-verkiesing, Suid-Afrikaanse burgers wat hulle om verskeie redes in die buiteland bevind, toegelaat sal word om te kan stem in die 2004-verkiesing. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Dr P W A MULDER: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the FF: That the House notes that -

(1) during the parliamentary recess the Freedom Front established a full- fledged branch of the party in London;

(2) the FF decided to take this step in the light of the large number of Afrikaans speakers currently living in London;

(3) the party is of the opinion that these young people cannot be left in a political vacuum for a year or more, but that they must remain politically informed and must be given hope to return to South Africa; and

(4) this FF branch in London will, inter alia, strive to ensure that South African citizens who find themselves abroad for various reasons will be allowed to vote in the 2004 election, unlike the situation during the 1999 election.] Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the MF: That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the series of killings of Muslim and Indian shopkeepers in the
       Western Cape; and


   (b)  that a meeting was hosted with businesspersons of the attacked
       calibre, protection units, persons concerned and the Minister of
       Safety and Security, Steve Tshwete, last week to attend to the
       matter; and

(2) calls on all departments and the public who are able to assist in the matter of these serious attacks, to do so.

Mr A M MAZIYA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  that two Pagad members, Faizel Waggie and Ismail Edwards, were
       found guilty of bombing Lansdowne police station; and


   (b)  statements made by hon Patricia de Lille in this House last year
       that the Minister was making unsubstantiated allegations against
       Pagad;

(2) believes that the conviction of the Pagad duo confirms Minister Tshwete’s long-held view that Pagad is responsible for acts of urban terror in the Western Cape;

(3) welcomes the conviction of the Pagad duo; and

(4) calls on hon Patricia de Lille to retract the statement she made in the House on this matter.

[Applause.]

Mr V C GORE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  residents of Alexandra, Gauteng, near the Jukskei River are
       being evicted during the winter months from brick structures to
       a damp transit camp lacking water and proper toilet facilities
       in Diepsloot;


   (b)  family units have been split up during these moves; and


   (c)  the company appointed to carry out these moves is alleged to
       have assaulted residents and stolen their property;

(2) expresses its concern at allegations that the Gauteng housing department failed to consult residents and give them proper warning of the move; and

(3) calls on the province to stop these heavy-handed evictions and address the dedensification process in Alexandra in a humane and rights-based manner. [Applause.]

Mr J H SLABBERT: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes with sadness and shock that seven people were killed and four critically wounded as a result of an attack on a minibus taxi, between Qumbu and Mount Frere in the Eastern Cape, on Sunday night;

(2) expresses condolences to the families of the deceased of which six were returning from the national taxi conference in Durban; and

(3) calls upon the authorities to launch a thorough investigation into the incident so as to bring the perpetrators to book.

Mr M M Z DYANI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the widening rift between the New NP and the DP;


   (b)  that the New NP wants the DA to fire Hennie Bester for publicly
       criticising Peter Marais and lobbying the DA leadership against
       him; and


   (c)  that the cracks within the New NP are also showing with Marais
       supporters vowing to oust Premier Gerald Morkel at the party's
       provincial congress later this month;

(2) believes that the petty infighting within the DA does not bode well for delivery in the Western Cape; and

(3) calls on the DA to shift its narrow-minded and inward focus on its own insecurities and divisions, to an outward plan of delivery, upliftment and transformation that will benefit all people, not just the privileged few.

[Applause.]

Mr H A SMIT: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the abnormally high number of persons who are dying from
       HIV/Aids in South African prisons; and


   (b)  that, according to Judge Fagan, Inspecting Judge for
       Correctional Services, the estimate is that in 10 years' time 45
       000 prisoners will die in South African prisons annually;

(2) agrees that prisoners who are HIV-negative also have rights and that their rights cannot be ignored;

(3) believes that the Government can no longer ignore this situation; and

(4) calls for a national summit as well as international assistance to find solutions to this enormous problem.

Mr J T MASEKA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  with concern the suppression of a Medical Research Council
       report contradicting President Mbeki's ideas on the extent of
       HIV/Aids-related deaths; and


   (b)  that the Minister of Correctional Services recently stated that
       his department could soon be facing a flood of legal action
       against it, by prisoners being infected with the virus;   (2) expresses its concern over the trend of the Government to suppress
   information regarded as politically ``incorrect'', which is
   dangerously reminiscent of the old regime; and

(3) calls on the ANC Government to release this report to equip the leaders of this country to make proper and responsible decisions.

Prof B TUROK: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the Democratic Alliance councillor in Ward 64, Cape Town, set up
       a ward committee constituted by privileged interest groups; and


   (b)  this ward committee favours previously advantaged communities at
       the expense of the historically disadvantaged communities; and   (2) calls on the Democratic Alliance not to treat the masses of our
   people with contempt, but to restructure ward committees to serve the
   interest of all our people, not a privileged few.

[Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! The time for notices of motion has expired and we now come to motions without notice. Are there any motions without notice? [Interjections.] In that case, that concludes the business of the House.

The House adjourned at 17:19. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

  1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:
 (1)    The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs on 18 September
     2001 submitted drafts of the Land Affairs General Amendment Bill,
     2001, and the Planning Profession Bill, 2001, as well as the
     memoranda explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to
     the Speaker and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159. The
     drafts have been referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Agriculture and Land Affairs and the Select Committee on Land and
     Environmental Affairs by the Speaker and the Chairperson,
     respectively, in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).


 (2)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister for
     Agriculture and Land Affairs in the National Assembly on 19
     September 2001 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
     for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Land Affairs General Amendment Bill [B 71 - 2001]
          (National Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and
          prior notice of its introduction published in Government
          Gazette No 22664 of 7 September 2001.]
     The Bill has also been referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Agriculture and Land Affairs of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
     within three parliamentary working days.


 (3)    The Minister of Education submitted the Wysigingswetsontwerp op
     Onderwyswette [W 55 - 2001] (National Council of Provinces - sec
     76) to the Speaker and the Chairperson on 19 September 2001. This
     is the official translation of the Education Laws Amendment Bill
     [B 55 - 2001] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76), which was
     introduced in the National Council of Provinces by the Select
     Committee on Education and Recreation at the request of the
     Minister of Education on 30 August 2001.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces: Papers:

  1. The Minister of Minerals and Energy:
 Report and Financial Statements of the Council for Mineral Technology
 (Mintek) for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on
 the Financial Statements for 2000-2001 [RP 110-2001].