National Assembly - 10 October 2001
WEDNESDAY, 10 OCTOBER 2001
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PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
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The House met at 15:03.
The Speaker took the Chair and requested the members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
PUBLIC SERVICE WAGE NEGOTIATIONS
(Statement)
The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Madam Speaker, hon members, in January this year we held the Public Service Jobs Summit. For the first time we entered into a series of broad discussions with Public Service unions that went beyond the narrow focus on wages and conditions of service.
At the summit, we discussed issues relating to the restructuring and transformation of the Public Service, within the broader economic and social framework. The outcome of the summit was a framework agreement that set the stage for further constructive discussions and engagements on the restructuring of the Public Service for enhanced service delivery and improving conditions of service, focusing on the quality and sustainability of jobs for public servants.
Encouraged by the agreement at the Jobs Summit, and the willingness to move beyond the narrow and often antagonistic confines of wage negotiations, we approached this year’s negotiations with a renewed sense of partnership and optimism - a partnership, we hoped, in which Government and unions would demonstrate a clear commitment towards improving the conditions of service; improving the quality and sustainability of Public Service jobs; and, of course, extending and improving service delivery through the restructuring of the Public Service. A commitment that I know that hon members, as well as legislators, do have, especially after the recent Public Service Week.
In demonstrating the commitment, we have, over the last few years, not only reaffirmed workers’ rights, but also significantly improved the basic conditions of service of public servants. Hon members are aware that the 1996 salary agreement was one of the most far-reaching agreements, in many ways. Amongst others, it unified 17 former apartheid configurated administrations, with different pay scales, into a single unified wage scale, and benefits were extended to all public servants equally - that is medical aid, pension and the home owners’ allowance.
Now, while having significant merits, the 1996 agreement was extremely costly. The wage bill went up by almost 25% in one year. That was the 1995- 96 to 1996-97 year. Personnel costs went up from about 45% noninterest spending in 1995-96, to 54% by 1997-98. The dramatic reduction in nonpersonnel expenditure led to a reduction in spending on capital, maintenance, training and complementary inputs such as textbooks and medical equipment. In general, we consciously had a situation where certain aspects of service delivery were arguably negatively affected by this squeeze.
In consequence, by 1998 Government had adopted a tighter stance on personnel expenditure. Salary increases over the past three years were 7,1% in 1998, 6,3% in 1999 and 6,5% in 2000. This excludes specific salary increases for the police in 1998 and 2001, for prosecutors in 1999 and for magistrates in 2000. Automatic rank promotions added about 4% points a year to personnel budgets in the Police Service and Health, or about 1% point for the whole public sector.
The 2001 budget signalled a slightly more expansionary fiscal policy, resulting in real growth in expenditure of about 3% a year. Even with rapid increases in infrastructure projects and an expansion of the social security net, Government can now afford to grow the wage bill slightly faster than inflation over the next three years.
With the real growth of about 1,5% per year in personnel costs, personnel spending will still decline as a percentage of total spending, enabling Government to remain focused on our priorities relating to capital expenditure, social welfare and other operational expenditure.
There are a number of ways in which the wage bill can be expanded in real terms. These are through general salary increases for all public servants, salary increases for specific categories of the Public Service like the police or educators, people with scarce skills - let us say maths and science teachers, for example - or by increasing the number of people employed in the public sector, because we daily have reports of overworked nurses, police units that are understaffed, schools where teachers still need to deal with a large number of children or welfare queues of hundreds of people.
Giving everyone a slightly above inflation salary increase may now be affordable. However, it is not likely to achieve the objectives of improving the efficiency and targeting of Government services. Paying an overworked nurse or police officer may make him or her feel better for a short while, but with not reduce stress levels and workloads.
Government would like to be in a position to do all the things it wants to do, ie hiring more people, giving larger increases and designing new measures to attract and retrain scarce skills. These are all costly exercises. Growing capital spending, expanding the welfare net and paying for free municipal services are demands on the same pot. These trade-offs are difficult but have to be made in a way that improves the ability of Government to meet its objectives with finite amounts of money.
There are many times in public policy when choices need to be made between competing objectives, and this is one of those situations. Hiring more people will reduce workloads and allow for an expansion of services that Government delivers. In keeping with this, Government is committed to creating employment over the medium term in key service delivery sectors which include, amongst others, education, correctional services and justice, health and welfare, as well as safety and security.
While the Government will be increasing employment in the above sectors, it is also true that there are areas of the Public Service that are overstaffed and areas that require fundamental restructuring. We have never hidden this. We have said it upfront. Government and unions need to have the tools and procedures to deal with this situation.
To this end Government remains committed to ensuring that a process that complies with the PSCBC Resolution 7 of 2001 is implemented. What is that? That is the Jobs Summit agreement that was arrived at earlier this year in Pietersburg, and that is the agreement that is on the table.
The envisaged process provides a framework for ensuring that the rights of public servants and the need to retain jobs are balanced with service delivery imperatives that emerge across Government. The critical imperative is to have a fair process and to ensure that all possible alternatives are exhausted before anyone is retrenched.
The current agreement gave unions adequate time to negotiate with us on these issues, but insists, in order to have certainty, that all parties should agree to binding arbitration in case no agreement is reached. A false impression is being deliberately created that we are forcing unions to agree to retrenchments. In actual fact the agreement gives us an opportunity to negotiate in a way that will result in certainty. I will quote from paragraph 8(2) of this agreement:
The parties agree to convene a special PSCBC meeting which will remain in session for an uninterested period between 16 October and 12 December 2001, in order to conclude a collective agreement on restructuring.
The next paragraph says: The negotiations contemplated in clause 8(2) above, shall be based upon the principles contained in Resolution 7 of 2001, specifically the section titled `Procedures and processes to govern the transformation and restructuring process at departmental, sectoral and central PSCBC level’’.
It concludes in paragraph 8.6 that, and I quote:
If the collective agreement on restructuring is not reached by 12 December 2001, the parties agree to conciliation and if conciliation fails, binding arbitration on the processes, procedures and substantive issues.
The agreement that we have striven towards, is a step in the direction of building a sense of consistency and moderation and of balancing our respective approaches. The central objective of the envisaged agreement was a shift away from antagonistic annual wage increases towards a more sustainable multi-term wage policy agreement. The shift was towards a multi- term policy agreement that allows, amongst others, for better planning in Government and less antagonistic relations between Government and labour. A central benefit of the medium-term agreement on wages and restructuring is that it allows us to focus, with our labour partners, on other strategic transformation and service-delivery issues.
In line with the multi-term approach, the proposed agreements with unions anticipated an annual wage increase for the 2001-02 financial year of an average of 6,58%. This constituted an increase of R5,009 billion. The increases, as anticipated, would have been effected in the following manner: For salary level 1, the lowest salary level, it would have been 8%, for levels 2 and 3, 7% and for levels 4 to 12, 6,5%.
The annual wage increases for the 2002-03 financial year would have been inflation plus an additional ½% and the increase for 2003-04 an additional 1%. For the periods of 2002-03, which is next year and the year thereafter, the wage increases would have been implemented on 1 July. To protect employer and employee from wide fluctuations in inflation, the terms of the agreement were subject to negotiations if the threshold of inflation was higher than 7,5% or lower than 4%.
A multi-term agreement would also be in line with our Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, the emerging medium-term strategic framework and in line with our commitment to a more sustainable pay-progression system. We have also committed ourselves to pay the R850 once-off as a final payment in terms of Resolution 7 of 2001, with the expectation that this agreement would pave the way for the implementation of a new pay-progression system by 1 April 2002.
In line with this, we would allocate 1% of the wage bill for increments effected in terms of the pay-progression system. The new system is essential, as it provides a base for ensuring that pay progression can serve as a strategy for improving productivity and performance in the Public Service. The shift towards a multi-term agreement and a commitment to the imperatives of restructuring would pave the way for more sustained interaction with our labour partners on the critical transformation and conditions of service issues.
Of particular concern was the need to priorities the provision of a compulsory basic health care package for all public servants. As the Government, we believe that we have done everything possible to ensure that we negotiate in good faith and that, in the process, we remain flexible enough to accommodate the concerns and inputs from our labour partners. As at this time, the majority of unions in the bargaining chamber have not accepted the agreement we presented, and this is after a process of negotiations that started in May this year, a period of six months.
The negotiating team from Government also spent three weeks looking in particular at different ways in which everyone’s interests could be accommodated. As hon members are aware, on Tuesday last week we offered unions until the close of business on Tuesday, that is yesterday, to sign the agreement. After their Monday caucus, unions appealed to us to amend certain sections related to restructuring, on the basis of the commitment that this was the only issue standing between themselves and the signing of an agreement. As Government, we considered their interests and effected changes, as was proposed.
I must say, at this point, that it is still very difficult and perplexing for us as to the real reason why the agreement remains as yet unsigned. So, given such a response from unions and having done everything possible to secure an agreement, I have to inform this Parliament that we have no option but to implement our initial offer of 5%, backdated to 1 July 2001 and a once-off payment of R850 in lieu of the pay progression.
We do this to ensure that ordinary public servants are not denied an opportunity to improve their take-home pay as a result of the intransigence of the unions, and also because we believe that public servants have expected an increase as from 1 July. We are not in a position to implement our final wage offer, because the law, as it currently stands, only allows us to implement the monetary aspects of the agreement. The agreement on the table is a package agreement and the additional amount offered was on condition that there was a resolution of the outstanding matters arising from the Jobs Summit, as well as the provision of pay progression and the issues that I have raised.
To conclude, I want to emphasise that we are committed to building a developmental state and a developmental Public Service to underpin it. However, a developmental state does not come into being by simple declaration and rhetoric. It requires that we transform the Public Service in fundamental ways, and this includes values and ethos, equity, skills profiles, systems and procedures, transparency and accountability, as well as efficiency and effectiveness.
We need to restructure and transform the Public Service we inherited into one that underpins a developmental state. It is a difficult, yet necessary task, and I hope that hon members will understand our process in this context. I want to thank all those who tried to resolve this issue and who spent sleepless nights in the process. [Applause.]
Mr M WATERS: Madam Speaker and hon members, today the hon the Minister for the Public Service and Administration will sign the second unilateral wage increase for the Public Service within three years. One cannot help but note the irony in this. After all, it does seem strange that the party which is an ally of the biggest trade union federation in this country imposes decisions on increases, no matter how small they may be, upon the very workers they claim to represent. Could it be that Peter Mokaba was correct when he stated that the alliance was, in fact, over? Surely, it is only a matter of time before the SACP and Cosatu members will finally put their principles before their salary cheques and break away from the ANC.
The DA has stated with good advice time and time and again, the necessity of downsizing the Public Service. Rumour has it that the hon the Minister plans to heed our advice. We want to warn the hon the Minister that there will be dire consequences if this is not done in a well-considered and planned manner. South Africa cannot afford a repetition of the education fiasco where R1 billion was spent on retrenchment packages, with the outcome for the public being a loss of highly skilled educators and a crippled education system.
Any retrenchment must take place in a systematic and fair manner. [Interjections.] I wonder what the hon the Minister is. This cannot occur without a proper skills audit being completed throughout the Public Service. Disappointingly, the Government has broken its promise of a skills audit that was initially agreed upon in the 1999 wage settlement. This is not only shortsightedness on the part of the Government, but also a lack of commitment both to the public and to ensuring a Public Service that can deliver efficiently, and to the Public Service itself in ensuring that the process of retrenchment is a fair one. Without a skills audit, the Government will not know what training and skills are required to equip its staff and, further to this, the individuals with the most to offer the public in terms of service delivery might not be there when the waves of retrenchments are over.
The fact that the Government has had to implement salary increases unilaterally again, is proof that centralised bargaining is cumbersome, outdated and simply does not work. I would like to tell the hon the Minister that if staff are to adopt new ways of working and a culture of continuous improvement, they must be rewarded for doing so. We must provide incentives for innovation, crosscutting thinking, collaborative working and excellent service delivery. Our approach to the issue of wages must be incentive-based in order to ensure that the most productive and the highest calibre of individuals remain within the Public Service.
This means that outdated, inflexible and inefficient practices in pay and conditions such as the current wage negotiations, must be reformed so that pay can be tailored to the needs of the Public Service and provide suitable incentives to staff. Moreover, an individual’s salary should reflect their output, results and performance. This means that the best performers, both individuals and teams, should be best rewarded. We must challenge any system which gives automatic pay increases to poor or inefficient performers.
An example that we have seen in the current situation is that of state attorneys who lag some 50% behind their counterparts in the private sector. The DA, therefore, proposes that the centralised bargaining chamber of the Public Service be abolished.
In conclusion, I would like to remind Cosatu that if they want to regain their integrity, they should take a deep breath and leave the alliance with the governing party. It is the only way they will stop being used and abused by the ANC. [Applause.]
Mr M S M SIBIYA: Madam Speaker, Ministers and hon members, we have heard from the hon the Minister that her department has offered a 6,5% to 8% salary increase across the board to civil servants. And, we acknowledge that there has been a lot of grappling in this regard. We also acknowledge that some trade unions have threatened strike action if the negotiations do not go their way.
Although the Minister had issued an ultimatum to the unions to sign the agreement and let the Government effect the salary or wage increase for civil servants, if it is so the IFP feels that the Minister is not negotiating in good faith.
The IFP wishes to point out that the original offer by the Minister was 6,5% to 8%, and was then willing to support the wage increase. We also acknowledge that some eight unions have agreed to sign the agreement and the remaining four have not. I hasten to add that this 5% increase which the Minister has just mentioned is below the inflation rate. The IFP feels that this is not good enough for the civil servants.
The IFP is concerned about the fact that the Minister might have reverted to this 5% increase across the board owing to protracted negotiations and the unions’ padded stance. The IFP believes that the power relations between the department and the central bargaining chamber are overstretched. Inasmuch as we do not wish to see labour treated as an afterthought stakeholder, we do not wish to see the Government hamstrung and held to ransom.
Government is the state itself and, as such, it should be treated with deference, especially when it tries to accommodate dissenting views. Again, there must be convergence of thought at some stage. Reason and humaneness inform us that people should also put the interests of their country first and observe that economic repercussions could be far greater than personal gains.
The IFP, however, supports the unions stance on thorough negotiations when it comes to the restructuring of the Public Service and/or the retrenchment of Public servants. Salaries and the restructuring and/or retrenchment cannot always necessarily be treated as a package, and do not mean the same thing on the part of the employee. They can and may be treated as such by the employer and paymaster as both issues concern money on the part of the employer. However, we need to understand the trade unions’ concern in the light of the steep rate of unemployment and poverty. The employees who may be affected by the retrenchments may be wary because they have seen victims of retrenchment packages in their surroundings.
We wish to point out also that there is a severe brain drain in the Public Service as a result of unstructured severance packages that seem attractive mostly to professional personnel who can be absorbed by the private sector. At some point there must be clear guidelines as to who should and should not qualify for such retrenchment packages. We also appeal that the next market-related salary structures for the Public Service cut down on the year-to-year protracted wage negotiations.
Mr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD: Madam Speaker, the New NP believes that the hon the Minister for the Public Service and Administration needs to be congratulated on her firm stance against Cosatu during the long and drawn- out wage negotiations. [Interjections.]
She has, once again, shown why she is called the iron lady of South African politics. [Interjections.] I believe that the Minister’s announcement today is proof that a cool head and a strong will are needed to overcome the threats of an irresponsible Cosatu, which is doing South Africa more and more harm through its mass action and labour strikes.
Already the extent of the recent strikes by Cosatu and its affiliates are clear with the release of figures on man-days lost owing to the strikes in the third quarter of 2001. Not only have these Cosatu-inspired strikes on wage negotiations in the motor industry led to the loss of 900 000 man-days to the South African economy, but Cosatu’s strikes against the Government’s privatisation plans have led to the loss of an additional 800 000 to 900 000 man-days, bringing the total man-days lost during this third quarter to an astronomical 1,7 million. No growing economy can afford irresponsible action like this.
Further strikes over the Public Service wage settlement cannot happen at a worse time for the already embattled South African economy. It is clear that Cosatu does not care or realise that its alliance partners are still reeling from the blows that the South African economy was dealt by the unresolved Coleman Andrews saga; the postponement of the listing of SAA; the delay in the Telkom/IPO; and the Government’s policy of silent diplomacy on the Zimbabwean crisis. Not to mention the effect of the attacks on the World Trade Centre on the South African currency.
The possibility of further strikes by Cosatu is clouding the horizon. The effects of such strikes should not be underestimated, for even the Governor of the Reserve Bank Tito Mboweni has admitted that the wage negotiations strikes in August had a negative effect on the value of the rand. This is a situation which South Africa cannot afford at this critical stage, for the decline in the value of the rand could also impact on South Africa’s inflation targeting.
In the light of these factors, I believe that the time has come for the ANC to deal, once and for all, with its irresponsible big bad brother, Cosatu, by following the example set by the hon the Minister for the Public Service and Administration.
Finally, I believe that every effort to speed up the restructuring of the Public Service should be supported, in order to pave the way for a more streamlined, effective, productive Public Service by applying the principle of less is more. [Applause.]
Mr T ABRAHAMS: Madam Speaker, while the transformation and integration of the various departments that existed before the advent of the new democratic Government was never expected to be a very simple undertaking it must be accepted that Government has been at it now for seven years. It is regrettable that it now seems to have turned on its union partners. An army of consultants has been used and huge amounts have been paid for advice on how to steer the process. Despite this, the Public Service appears to have a long way to go towards the adoption of and adherence to the principles of Batho Pele. I might remind members that the Government needed consultants at high price to be told to call teachers, educators, and scholars, learners. They might have saved the money and used it more profitably.
A critical matter, which it is hoped will prove to be adequately addressed in the agreements reached thus far, is the conversion relating to pay progressions. It is understood that some types of incremental scales for increases well into the future have been negotiated. It is understood that this multi-term agreement, which is to be inflation-linked, may foster greater job satisfaction, because it is demoralising and, certainly, unprofessional for nurses and teachers to be obliged every year to have to threaten to down tools or to toyi-toyi to have their salaries keep pace with the rate of inflation.
It is amazing to find that heads of institutions who were contacted are poorly informed or totally underinformed about the system used to determine the emoluments of their staff. Government must accept that if it treats the members of the Public Service as a collection of illiterates, it cannot expect them to behave as dynamic professionals. Along with the lack of a proactive system of annual increments up to now, a further demotivating factor is the application of the Government’s system of broad-banding. This system, as it has been applied, creates hardly any incentive for people in the service to improve their personal capabilities in their respective fields of operation.
What incentive is there for an official to read for a degree in public administration other than to climb the ladder? A mathematics teacher who prefers the classroom to a promotion post has to settle for a once off R2 000 minus tax, for pursuing further studies. This is not reasonable. It is hoped that the restructuring, which the Minister is engaged in, will address the bitter principle and is not simply an elaborate plan to shed jobs. [Time expired.]
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Mevrou die Speaker, ek kan nie mooi verstaan nie. Die agb lid van die DP kom en hy kritiseer die agb Minister. Die lid van die NP kom en hy komplimenteer die agb Minister. Dit lyk vir my tussen die DA en die ANC is daar nou kompetisie, naamlik wie het die meeste binnegevegte. [Gelag.] Dit is baie duidelik dat die ANC en sy vennoot Cosatu ‘n sterk geveg aan die gang het. Dit was nog altyd die uitgangspunt van die VF dat daar ‘n balans moet wees tussen die belange van die werknemers aan die een kant en die belange van die werkgewers aan die ander kant, in hierdie geval die staat. Daar was vakbonde wat die 6,5% na 8% aanvaar het, onder andere die Vereniging van Staatsamptenare. Die VF is van mening dit is onbillik van die agb Minister om daardie vakbonde wat wel die voorwaarde aanvaar, nou te penaliseer, omdat groter vakbonde nie daarby wil inval nie. Dit is nie konsekwent nie. Dit is nie in die kleiner vakbonde se belang nie en is nie ‘n ewewigtige, gebalanseerde benadering nie en daarom kritiseer die VF daardie aspek. Daardie vakbonde wat wel ingestem het, behoort daardie verhoging te kry. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.) [Mr P J GROENEWALD: Madam Speaker, I do not understand entirely. The hon member of the DP came along and criticised the hon the Minister. The member of the NP came along and complimented the hon the Minister. It seems to me that there is now competition between the DA and the ANC to see who has the most infighting. [Laughter.] It is very clear that the ANC and its partner Cosatu have a strong fight going at the moment. It was always the point of departure of the FF that there should be a balance between the interests of the employees on the one hand and the interests of the employers on the other, in this case the state. There were unions who accepted the 6,5% to 8%, amongst others the Public Servants’ Association. The FF is of the opinion that it is unfair of the hon the Minister to now penalise those unions who have indeed accepted, because the bigger unions do not want to accept the agreement. This is not consistent. It is not in the interest of the smaller unions and it is not a level-headed, balanced approach, and for this reason the FF is criticising that aspect. Those unions who did agree, should then get that increase.] Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Speaker, salary negotiations in the Public Service that began in June 2001 have culminated in a conciliation process that has failed to break the impasse between the Government and the trade unions. In asserting their rights, unions have turned a deaf ear to the voice of reason, while the Government has, in asserting its rights, become insensitive to the pleas of the workers.
Unions are cautious not to commit themselves as they maintain that there is a subtle clause on retrenchments built into the agreement dealing with the restructuring measures. This brings to light what John Coppeline, the former Secretary-General of Sactu once asked. He inquired as to what unions should do if a legitimate government, elected by a great majority, behaves in the same way as the former government. The unions are now stating their position. However, the Government has amended the clause that was causing discontent. The unions must lie in the bed that they have made for themselves.
We appeal to all parties involved to let reason prevail, as any strike is a drawback, particularly if it involves teachers during this examination time. It would, however, be helpful if the Government had not adopted a ``take-it-or-leave it’’ attitude, which bordered on blackmail when unions were told to accept the increase of between 6% and 8%, or settle for 5% plus the once-off payment. We are saying patience, tolerance and empathy are key elements in building up mutual trust. [Time expired.]
Mr L M GREEN: Madam Speaker, hon Ministers and hon members, the ACDP commends the Minister for the Public Services and Administration and her department on the successful wage negotiations. We understand that the process was extremely difficult because, on the one hand, one has the demands of workers and state employees who are hard-pressed and cannot make ends meet, while, on the other hand, one has a growing personnel budget, which is extremely difficult for Government to maintain.
As Government, one has the interests of the whole nation at heart, not just the interests of workers. Increases must be related to performance and there should be no automatic increases if Government employees do not perform according to expectations. The ACDP, therefore, commends the Minister because she managed, despite the severe pressure from the unions, to stick to the Government’s budget.
Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Speaker, we have heard what the Minister has said on wage negotiations. It is important that we have a country that is not rocked by labour strikes. The only way to create an atmosphere of labour stability in the Public Service is to pay our public servants a decent wage and improve their conditions of service.
It is true, of course, that money is not always available for this purpose. But public servants who are not adequately paid may resort not only to labour strikes and destabilising the country, but also, unwisely, to corrupt practices which may get them in trouble. Frequent labour strikes also have an adverse effect on foreign investors. It gives them, rightly or wrongly, a picture of a country in which it is not safe to invest.
The PAC hopes that improvements in conditions of service will prevent situations where bodies like Sadtu go on strike on the eve of the matric examinations, which have been a national disaster in our country for many years.
Mr C AUCAMP: Madam Speaker, in politics one often has a choice between doing what is popular and doing what is right. I think Minister Fraser- Moleketi did not consider the claim of eight of the 12 unions. [Interjections.] It was not a popular thing to do, but it was right and we congratulate her on that. South Africa cannot be ruled by the unions, and hard-line bargaining only to show muscles cannot be yielded to.
Twee sake is egter van belang. Die eerste is dat ons na die kwessie van meriete moet kyk. Meriete moet in groter mate in salarisaanpassings verdiskonteer word.
Daar is tans amptenare wat meer as hul deel doen en hulle verdien meer. Daar is egter ander wat bloot op die golf aanry en hulle hoef nie verhogings te kry nie. Dié wat dit verdien, moet beloon word.
‘n Tweede saak is dat dit goed is as die rieme dunner gesny word, en elke Suid-Afrikaner moet sy deel daartoe bydra. Die koek is net só groot en nie groter nie. Dan geld dit almal. Mense verstaan nie hoekom hulle die gordel moet styftrek as R600 miljoen aan die President se vliegtuig bestee word en die wapentransaksie styg van R30 na R60 miljard en word nie eens heroorweeg nie. As na dié twee sake gekyk word, sal die kwessie van staatsdienssalarisse ook gunstiger ontvang word.
Ons ondersteun die minister in haar ferm standpunt oor dié onderhandelings. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Two issues, however, are of importance. The first is that we have to look at the matter of merit. Merit should be taken into account to a greater extent in salary adjustments. Currently, there are officials who do more than their share and they deserve more. However, there are others who are merely riding the wave and they need not receive increases. Those who deserve it, should be rewarded.
A second issue is that it is good to tighten one’s belt, and every South African must do his or her bit. The cake is only so big, and no bigger. This, then, applies to everybody. People do not understand why they have to tighten their belts when R600 million is spent on the President’s aircraft and the arms deal increases from R30 to R60 billion without even being reconsidered. If we look at these two matters, the issue of Public Service salaries will also be better received.
We support the Minister in her firm standpoint on these negotiations.]
Mr P J GOMOMO: Madam Speaker, hon members, I just want to refer to what Mr Groenewald said. I think his proposal to the Minister to give a full settlement to those unions that have signed would be an unfair labour practice, and one cannot do that. As for the DA, I think they are still in the wilderness. They still need to be taken through this whole agreement to know exactly what they are talking about, because people cannot do away with central bargaining. I believe that they do not know what they are talking about. [Interjections.]
It is imperative to understand the content and character of our struggle today. [Interjections.] I say this because before 1994 we were engaged in a particular form of struggle that destroyed apartheid. Men and women participated in that form of struggle within that particular context. Today’s struggle has to be placed within the context of the transformation and development of our country, for the benefit of our people.
Therefore, the wage dispute between Government and labour has to be within a constructive development agenda, for the benefit of all South Africans. A dispute between the two parties could be detrimental to our political mandate to accelerate service delivery, if not handled properly. It is therefore vital to place every aspect of transformation in a vigilant, focused and respectful manner, in order to deal with our reformatory agenda correctly.
I want to call on the unions and the Government to resolve their differences without embarking on strike action. I want to call on unions and Government to restore trust and stop being suspicious during negotiations. They should show political commitment, in order to resolve the issue within 24 hours.
To conclude, once again, let us deal with transformation with a vigilant mind. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
QUESTIONS AND REPLIES - see that book.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr D M DLALI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) the Ndabeni land claimants from Langa will be given land in
Goodwood; and
(b) the handing-over ceremony will be held at Wingfield Naval Base
on Saturday and will be addressed by the Minister for
Agriculture and Land Affairs;
(2) believes that this handing-over ceremony reflects the commitment of the Government to distribute and make land available to historically disadvantaged communities; and
(3) welcomes the restoration of land to the Ndabeni community.
Mr S E OPPERMAN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP:
That the House -
(1) notes that even the best spindoctors available can no longer deny the devastating effect of Aids on societies in South Africa;
(2) believes that public representatives of all political parties who wish to live with their conscience must now take a stand against the impudence and arrogance that has become the hallmark of those who must lead the fight against Aids;
(3) supports the viewpoint of churches, Cosatu, prominent individuals like Rhoda Kadalie and NGOs like TAC; and
(4) declares the present official position of the Government of South Africa on Aids to be a crime against our nation. Dr U ROOPNARAIN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House -
(1) notes -
(a) with concern that despite women being diagnosed with HIV/Aids as
early as 1980, little research has been conducted to ascertain
whether there are differences between men and women in disease
progression, opportunistic infections and disease management;
and
(b) that women only account for 12% of trial participants and that
male bias within research results impacts on the knowledge of
and approach to women's health needs; and
(2) therefore resolves to -
(a) call on the Minister of Health to ensure that research is
engendered so as to reflect that women are biologically more
affected; and
(b) focus on greater access for women into clinical trials with
informed consent and according to ethical considerations.
Ms N L HLANGWANA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) the Minister of Finance, Mr Trevor Manuel, praised the
improvement of financial management in provinces; and
(b) the Minister has indicated that the improvement in financial
management in provinces may lead to increased spending in
poverty alleviation and social development programmes;
(2) believes that the current Government is making significant progress and is committed to effective and clean governance; and
(3) congratulates the Finance Ministry on introducing policies that promote clean governance.
Mnr F BEUKMAN: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die Nuwe NP sal voorstel:
Dat die huis -
(1) kennis neem -
(a) met ernstige kommer, van gebeure in die Portefeuljekomitee oor
Binnelandse Sake, waar die prosessering van die
Immigrasiewetsontwerp weer eens vertraag is;
(b) dat 'n voorstel van die opposisie dat die DG van Binnelandse
Sake na die komitee geroep moet word, oor die beweerde gebrek
aan 'n dienskontrak, verwerp is;
(c) dat dit ernstig inbreuk maak op die grondwetlike rol van
Parlementêre komitees om oorsig oor die uitvoerende gesag uit te
oefen; en
(d) dat die huidige bestuur van die Portefeulje-komitee nie daartoe
bydra om wetgewende oorsig oor die Departement van Binnelandse
Sake te versterk nie; en
(2) dringend ‘n beroep doen op die Speaker om ‘n ondersoek na die bestuur en leierskap van die komitee in te stel. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Mr F BEUKMAN: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the New NP: That the House -
(1) notes -
(a) with serious concern events in the Portfolio Committee on Home
Affairs, where the processing of the Immigration Bill has once
again been delayed;
(b) that a proposal by the opposition, that the DG of Home Affairs
be called to the committee regarding a service contract which is
allegedly missing, was rejected;
(c) that this is a serious infringement of the constitutional role
of parliamentary committees to exercise oversight over the
executive authority; and
(d) that the current management of the portfolio committee is not
contributing to the strengthening of legislative oversight over
the Department of Home Affairs; and (2) urgently appeals to the Speaker to conduct an inquiry into the
management and leadership of the committee.]
Ms A VAN WYK: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) yesterday was the 3rd anniversary of the Partnership Against
Aids initiative;
(b) no amount of semantic games and suppression of statistics will
change the fact that thousands of South Africans are dying, and
that millions more will die if the Government continues to allow
itself to be misled by the ANC and President Mbeki's ill-
considered ideas on the subject; and
(c) Deputy President Zuma yesterday claimed that HIV/Aids awareness
was higher than 90% among South Africans;
(2) questions whether this 90% awareness is an accurate figure, and whether it does not to a large degree reflect a huge awareness of inaccurate and irresponsible ideas around HIV/Aids, such as the President’s claims that HIV/Aids is not caused by a virus; and
(3) calls on the ANC to attend to this matter of extreme national interest by rising to the challenge and meeting it with maturity, even if this means once and for all withdrawing its leader from comment or decision-making on HIV/Aids.
Mr L ZITA: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes reports that the job creation fund set up by Cosatu has delivered jobs for unemployed workers;
(2) believes that this successful job creation initiative led by Cosatu is further evidence of Cosatu’s commitment to the ideal of a better life for all and its serious concern about the high levels of unemployment; and
(3) calls on other stakeholders, business in particular, to invest more in job creation.
[Applause.]
Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UCDP:
That the House -
(1) Notes that -
(a) notes that whereas efforts are being made to ensure that
relations among citizens are cordial, farmworkers remain at the
receiving end; and
(b) some farm owners persist in assaulting, abusing, torturing and
even shooting at workers on their farms with impunity;
(2) believes that enough is enough and calls on -
(a) farmers to desist from such conduct and treat other people as
they themselves would like to be treated; and
(b) the criminal justice system agents to get their act together and
show their teeth to such perpetrators; and
(3) hopes that the forum set up under the chairmanship of Rev Mvambo in the North West Province to address such intolerances will go a long way towards making the different races find and accept one another as people of the same country.
Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the PAC:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) the rand has reached its lowest point against the US dollar and
the British pound; and
(b) not long ago the decline in the value of the rand was being
blamed on the PAC utterances on land as well as on the situation
in Zimbabwe;
(2) observes that the Zimbabwe dollar is improving while the rand is continually sliding;
(3) appeals to the accusers of the PAC to study the science of economics further; and
(4) concludes that it is very clear that the PAC was never responsible for the decline in the value of the rand and, therefore, the detractors of the PAC have a mistaken identity in their hands and are backing the wrong horse for the decline of the rand.
[Interjections.]
Mr S A MSHUDULU: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) Notes -
(a) the ongoing military strikes against a number of targets in
Afghanistan being conducted by the United States and Britain;
(b) that these operations are aimed at military targets;
(2) reaffirms its unequivocal condemnation of the terrorist attacks against various cities in the United States;
(3) calls on the United States and Britain to ensure the safety and security of noncombatant civilians, especially women and children in the targeted areas; and
(4) calls upon all South Africans to abide by the provisions of the Regulation of Foreign Military Assistance Act, No 15 of 1998, which prohibits the recruitment of South African citizens to participate in mercenary activities in other countries.
[Applause.]
Mr M WATERS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the DP: That the House -
(1) notes the sudden resignation of ``Mr Big Spender’’, Ekurhuleni Metro Mayor Mr Vilakazi, after only 10 months in office;
(2) welcomes this as a relief for ratepayers who were having to pay for his spending spree, including -
(a) a R500 000 inauguration party;
(b) a R560 000 armoured Mercedes-Benz; and
(c) R400 000 spent on improving his mayoral offices;
(3) expresses its appreciation to the DA opposition in Ekurhuleni Metro for calling the spendthrift mayor to account and putting pressure on the ANC to stop this wastage; and
(4) calls on the new mayor to put the interests of the people ahead of personal enrichment. Mrs L R MBUYAZI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House -
(1) congratulates all provincial winners of the Emerging Tourist Entrepreneur of the Year Award that was held recently in order to promote domestic and international tourism in South Africa, especially Mr Edward Ngwenya of the Crocodile Creek Guesthouse in Pongola, KwaZulu-Natal;
(2) also congratulates the Kingsway High School, in KwaZulu-Natal, on having won first place in the schools competition entailing a case study on sports tourism, entitling it to compete with other schools from around the world in Philadelphia, USA; and
(3) believes that tourism to South Africa will definitely be boosted by these seemingly small but giant steps towards marketing South Africa to domestic and international clients.
Mr R P ZONDO: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes reports that both the DP and the New NP have fraudulently inflated their membership figures by paying residents in old age homes to sign up, including nonexistent and even dead people;
(2) believes that -
(a) this power struggle-characterised by a severe lack of trust,
accusations and backstabbing - is just one more battle in the
grab for power in the DA; and
(b) that this scam to boost their respective demands in the DA's
constitutional negotiations is a reflection of the entrenched
corruption of both parties; and
(3) calls on ordinary members of the DA to seriously reconsider whether they want to be associated with a party that has neither scruples nor morals.
[Applause.]
Mnr A S VAN DER MERWE: Mevrou die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag namens die Nuwe NP sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis -
(1) kennis neem van die haglike toestande in die landbousektor na aanleiding van die volgende:
(a) die derde arbeidsmagopname van Statistiek SA toon dat die aantal
werknemers in bestaansboerderye of kleinskaal boerderye geval
het van 1,5 miljoen werkers in Februarie 2000 na 653 000 werkers
in Februarie 2001;
(b) die skade van die onlangse kouefronte in die Vrystaat en KwaZulu-
Natal tot R100 miljoen kan wees; en
(c) die landbousektor voortdurend gekniehalter word deur
plaasaanvalle op beide die werkgewers en werknemers; en
(2) ‘n beroep doen op die Regering om samesprekings te voer met al die leiers in die landbousektor, en die nodige stappe te doen om bystand te verleen aan diegene in hierdie belangrike sektor van die Suid- Afrikaanse ekonomie wat spoedeisend en dringend hulp nodig het. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Mr A S VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the New NP: That the House -
(1) notes the critical situation in the agricultural sector as a result of the following:
(a) the third labour force survey by Statistics SA shows that the
number of employees in subsistence farming and small-scale
farming has dropped from 1,5 million workers in February 2000 to
653 000 workers in February 2001;
(b) damage caused by the recent cold fronts in the Free State and
KwaZulu-Natal could total as much as R100 million; and
(c) the agricultural sector is continuously hamstrung by farm
attacks on both employers and employees; and
(2) appeals to the Government to hold talks with all the leaders in the agricultural sector, and to take the steps necessary to render assistance to those in this important sector of the South African economy who are in need of rapid and urgent relief.]
Mr G W KOORNHOF: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:
That the House -
(1) notes that Nafcoc and Sacob, two of the largest federations representing South African business, are in the process of negotiating a merger;
(2) recognises that many organisations that represent South African business remain divided along racial lines;
(3) acknowledges the importance of unified, nonracial organisations to represent the interests of South African business, whilst recognising the equally important need to bring everyone on board in such initiatives and to negotiate in good faith; and
(4) encourages Safcoc, and other similar business initiatives and business leaders, to continue on the visionary path of practically combining forces, in the interest of business and entrepreneurial development, inspired by their quest for the greater good of our integrated economy.
Mr M M CHIKANE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) a goods train derailed, hit a passenger train in Meyerton and
left 102 passengers injured; and
(b) Spoornet and the Department of Transport will hold independent
investigations into this accident;
(2) wishes those injured a speedy recovery; and
(3) welcomes the investigations by Spoornet and the Department of Transport.
[Applause.]
ARCHBISHOP DESMOND TUTU'S 70TH BIRTHDAY
(Draft Resolution)
Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) notes that Sunday, 7 October 2001, was the 70th birthday of Archbishop Emeritus Desmond Tutu;
(2) recognises the outstanding contribution of Archbishop Tutu to the transformation of South Africa; and
(3) extends its warmest wishes to Archbishop Tutu and wishes him many years of health and happiness.
Agreed to.
ISLAMIC CELEBRATION OF LAILATUL MIRAJ
(Draft Resolution)
Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:
That the House -
(1) notes -
(a) the Islamic celebration of Lailatul Miraj on Sunday, 14 October
2001; and
(b) that the occasion marks the ascent of their Holy Prophet
Mohammad, Peace be upon Him, to the heavens; and
(2) wishes all Muslims the very best on this auspicious night when they will convene in prayer and festivities.
Agreed to.
The House adjourned at 18:07. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REP0RTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 9 October 2001 in terms of
Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bill as a section 75
Bill:
(i) Immigration Bill [B 79 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec
75).
(2) The Minister of Education submitted the Wetsontwerp op
Gehalteversekering vir Algemene en Verdere Onderwys en Opleiding
[W 57 - 2001] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76) to the
Speaker and the Chairperson on 9 October 2001. This is the
official translation of the General and Further Education and
Training Quality Assurance Bill [B 57 - 2001] (National Council of
Provinces - sec 76), which was introduced in the National Council
of Provinces by the Select Committee on Education and Recreation
at the request of the Minister of Education on 30 August 2001.
(3) The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development
submitted the Wysigingswetsontwerp op Geregtelike Aangeleenthede
[W 43 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75) to the Speaker and the
Chairperson on 10 October 2001. This is the official translation
of the Judicial Matters Amendment Bill [B 43 - 2001] (National
Assembly - sec 75), which was introduced in the National Assembly
by the Minister on 20 August 2001.
National Assembly:
- The Speaker:
The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
relevant committees as mentioned below:
(1) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Public Service and Administration:
Report of the Department of Public Service and Administration on
the Use of Consultants in the Public Service, September 2001.
(2) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Home Affairs. The Report of the Auditor-General contained in the
following paper is referred to the Standing Committee on Public
Accounts for consideration and report:
Report and Financial Statements of the Film and Publication Board
for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements of 2000-2001.
(3) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Foreign Affairs and Trade and Industry for consideration and
report. The committees must confer and the Portfolio Committee on
Foreign Affairs to report:
(a) Partnership Agreement between the Members of the African,
Caribbean and Pacific Group of States of the one part, and the
European Community and its Members States, of the other part,
signed in Cotonou on 23 June 2000, tabled in terms of section
231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
(b) Explanatory Memorandum on the Partnership Agreement.
(4) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Finance:
Government Notice No R.851 published in the Government Gazette No
22653 dated 6 September 2001, Draft Regulations published for
public comment as required by section 91(4) of the Public Finance
Management Act, 1999, made in terms of section 91(1)(b) of the
Public Finance Management Act, 1999 (Act 1 of 1999).
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The President of the Republic:
Report and Financial Statements of the Presidency for 2000-2001,
including the Report of the Auditor-General on Financial Statements of
Vote 1 - Presidency for 2000-2001 [RP 168-2001].
- The Minister of Finance:
(a) Report and Financial Statements of the Development Bank of
Southern Africa Limited for 2000-2001.
(b) Report of the Executive Officer of the Financial Services Board
on the Road Accident Fund for 1999-2000.
- The Minister of Minerals and Energy: Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Minerals and Energy for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote 29 - Minerals and Energy for 2000-2001 [RP 172-2001].
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Assembly:
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence on the Demobilisation Amendment Bill [B 5 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 9 October 2001:
The Portfolio Committee on Defence, having considered the subject of the Demobilisation Amendment Bill [B 5 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with an amendment [B 5A - 2001].
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Defence on the Termination of Integration Intake Bill [B 6 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 9 October 2001:
The Portfolio Committee on Defence, having considered the subject of the Termination of Integration Intake Bill [B 6 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 6A - 2001].
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Stock Exchanges Control Amendment Bill [B 75 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 10 October 2001:
The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the Stock Exchanges Control Amendment Bill [B 75 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill without amendment.