National Council of Provinces - 06 June 2001
WEDNESDAY, 6 JUNE 2001 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 15:04.
The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:
That the Council -
(1) notes that the Halt Elder Abuse Line (Heal) has received, according to a media report, an average of 136 calls for help and advice per month since its inception two years ago;
(2) further notes that the abuses ranged from physical violence, extortions of pension money and neglect to emotional abuse; and
(3) calls on the Ministry of Social Development to heed the call for funding for full-time staff and equipment so that Heal may operate and function optimally in addressing the legitimate and valid concerns of the aged and elderly.
Mrs A M VERSFELD: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the following sitting day of the Council I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) calls on the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism immediately to appoint a task team to finalise the outstanding appeals on -
(a) the following fish species:
(i) hake longline - the appeal has been outstanding for the
past eight months and those involved should see to it
that it is finalised within the next fortnight; and
(ii) horse mackerel - there are only five companies that have
appealed, and notice should be taken of companies who
adhere to the requirements of the Act in that there is
job creation and value is added to products; and
(b) the pelagic industry; and
(2) notes that, while the department is doing its best to have the new rule book out on time, there must be other ways to address this very urgent issue.
HIJACKING INCIDENT IN CAPE TOWN
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) unequivocally condemns the senseless shooting of Dr Ebrahim Hansa and Mrs Liezelle Erasmus during a hijacking incident of Dr Hansa’s car;
(2) notes with dismay that gangsters appear to have taken control of the predominantly black areas of Cape Town;
(3) gives thanks to the Lord that the two victims survived their tragedies;
(4) calls on the Western Cape Minister of Safety and Security to ensure that the perpetrators of these evil acts are apprehended soon and also appeals to the department to rescue the public from the shackles of criminals and gangsters who terrorise the communities; and
(5) conveys its words of comfort to the victims and their families.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
ACHIEVEMENTS OF GOVERNMENT IN RESPECT OF FIGHTING CRIME
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that since 1994 the Government has developed many policies and made numerous laws to protect the people of South Africa against crime;
(2) acknowledges the important contribution these policies and laws have made -
(a) towards the fundamental transformation of our criminal justice
system;
(b) in increasing the representation of previously disadvantaged
South Africans in the criminal justice system; and
(c) in flushing out criminals and sending them to prison for long
periods;
(3) welcomes the announcement of the new court process project which is aimed at -
(a) further improving the excellent co-operation that already exists
between the Departments of Justice, Correctional Services and
Social Development and the Police Service; and
(b) eliminating the problems associated with lost documentation and
information which in the past has led to the acquittal of
criminals; and
(4) is of the opinion that this new project once again confirms the commitment of Government and the ANC to address the problems associated with our criminal justice system and to create a caring society based on peace and respect for the law.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Is there any objection to the motion?
Mr J L THERON: Yes, Chairperson.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! There is an objection. The motion will therefore become notice of a motion.
TAXI VIOLENCE IN THE EASTERN CAPE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr H T SOGONI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) takes note of the shocking and terrible loss of lives relating to taxi violence at Umtata in the Eastern Cape;
(2) further notes that these killings have claimed 20 lives this year, including commuters;
(3) reaffirms that it is our Government’s obligation and commitment to eradicate all forms of violence in the taxi industry;
(4) calls on our communities to remain vigilant and diligent to expose the perpetrators of such crimes, thereby helping the police to deal with the criminals with the full might of the law; and
(5) resolves to pass its heartfelt condolences and sympathy to the bereaved families of those killed in these senseless killings.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
DROUGHT IN THE OVERBERG
(Draft Resolution)
Mr K D S DURR: Madam Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that -
(a) the severe drought and unseasonal weather conditions in the
districts of Caledon, Bredasdorp and Swellendam in the Overberg
are continuing to create havoc in agriculture;
(b) reports indicate that farmers have sown for a second time, but
that this crop, too, seems already to have failed and, while
some are sowing a third time, that the warm weather and high
winds have also hampered fruit production; and
(c) reports indicate that more than 25 farms stand to be liquidated
as a result, with far-reaching consequences for large numbers of
workers, their families and the towns and villages concerned;
and
(2) calls upon the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs, in co- operation with her colleague in the Western Cape, to consider urgent steps to deal with the serious situation that is developing.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Is there any objection to that motion?
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Yes, Chairperson. The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! There is an objection. The motion will therefore become notice of a motion.
SENTENCING OF 18-YEAR-OLD FOR STABBING FELLOW STUDENT
(Draft Resolution)
Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that -
(a) the young man Andrew Babeile has now voluntarily handed himself
over to serve the severe three-year sentence for stabbing a
fellow student in the neck with a pair of scissors in his
defence; and
(b) he has been treated like a hardened criminal;
(2) expresses its sadness and shock that those who provoked him and threatened him have not been prosecuted and those white parents who whipped African students for attending an all-white school seem to have been treated with kid gloves;
(3) is of the opinion that these actions and attitudes do not break down racial barriers but harden them;
(4) calls on the Government to review the case to ensure that those that took the law into their own hands are dealt with justly and the harsh sentence of a first offender and 18-year-old who was provoked is rehabilitative rather than one causing a lifelong stigma;
(5) ask members to imagine it happened to their own child; and
(6) pleads for compassion.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Is there any objection to that motion? [Interjections.] There is an objection. The motion will therefore become notice of a motion.
SHOOTING OF SCHOOLCHILD IN THE EASTERN CAPE
(Draft Resolution)
Nk B N DLULANE: Mhlalingaphambili, ndenza isiphakamiso ngaphandle kwesaziso:
Sokuba le Khansile -
(1) iqaphele ubundlobongela obujoliswe kubantwana besikolo, nekuthe ngenxa yabo kwadutyulwa uNandipha Nompempe wasweleka kwilali yaseLower Ndongeni ngaseNgqeleni, eMpuma Koloni;
(2) iqaphele ukuba uNandipha Nompempe udutyulwe ngabantu abangaziwayo, emva kwentsimbi yokuqala izolo xa ebevela kubhala iimviwo zenyanga yeSilimela (June) eMandlovini High School;
(3) idlulise amazwi ovelwano kubazali kwakunye nezalamane zikaNandipha; nokubayaya
(4) yenze isindululo kuBaphathiswa bezoKhuselo noKhuseleko, abezoBulungisa, sokuba bakhe baphonononge lo mbandela ukuze kutshayelwe ezi zikrelemnqa zingenalusini, kuba azifuneki eluntwini. (Translation of Xhosa draft resolution follows.)
[Ms B N DLULANE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes the violence which is directed at schoolchildren, and which resulted in the fatal shooting of Nandipha Nompempe in the rural area of Lower Ndongeni near Ngqeleni in the Eastern Cape;
(2) further notes that Nandipha Nompempe was shot dead by unknown people while returning from writing her June examinations at Mandlovini High School after one o’clock yesterday afternoon;
(3) conveys its condolences to the bereaved family and relatives of Nandipha; and
(4) requests the Ministers of Safety and Security and of Justice to look into this incident in order to get rid of these merciless criminals because they are not welcome in the community.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Policy debate)
Vote No 17 - Social Development:
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, hon members, MECs for social development, representatives of civil society, and the young people in the public Gallery who have made a special point of coming to listen to today’s debate, it is a privilege, honour and joy for me to be addressing this House today, specifically after the celebration of Child Protection Week, which lasted the whole of last week, and, more importantly, just about 10 days before June 16, Youth Day, and soon after the death of Nkosi Johnson.
These are issues that necessarily bring to our mind the plight of children and the youth, who are the future of our country and need more attention from us. Children are the only people who can assure us of a better future, if we treat them in the right manner today.
More importantly, all these three events direct our minds towards the plight of those children, mostly the youth, and more importantly, of children who are affected and infected by HIV/Aids.
Young people, particularly women between the ages of 15 and 35, are the worst hit by HIV/Aids, because of the poverty, economic hardships and unequal power relations that make them unable to negotiate safe sex with their partners.
Of great concern are children and child-headed households, and the estimated half a million children who have moderate to severe disabilities, many of whom live in rural areas of South Africa.
The frequent occurrence of violence and abuse directed at women and older people is a reality that we must all continue to combat as we strive to build a caring society. Such violence and abuse are also everyone’s business, just as children must be everybody’s business.
During this year’s debate on the Budget Vote in the National Assembly, we highlighted some of the critical achievements and accomplishments of the 2000-01 financial year. We also outlined the priorities and outputs of the Department of Social Development for the 2001-02 financial year. We identified innovative and effective community initiatives that the department would be continuing to support.
My presentation to the NCOP today will be restricted to the readjustments of policy that result from what we learn as we implement our programmes with our partners.
Today’s debate will also highlight recent policy decisions by the Council of Social Development Ministers and the expected outcomes of these decisions in the short to medium term. Our decisions give effect to the programmes of action for the social development sector that was outlined by the President in his state-of-the-nation address this year.
With this framework in mind, the starting point for this policy debate has to be an acknowledgement of the steady progress we have made over the past year on various strategic fronts. My budget speech to the NCOP last year was to report on what we had done and would do to implement our 10-point programme. We have institutionalised consultations with both our national and provincial stakeholders to strengthen community participation in our work.
At our second annual national consultative workshop held in March this year, all the different role-players in the social development sector reaffirmed their commitment to accelerating the implementation of the 10- point plan.
The urgent need for effective implementation is based on my extended investigations and imbizos in the provinces. We identified blockages to service delivery and poor people’s participation. The findings of these investigations and what we heard during the imbizos have already informed our programmes at the national and provincial levels.
First, a personal word of thanks. Over the past year I have received the full support and co-operation of all MECs in the Council of Social Development Ministers. Our Minmec meetings have been focused and productive. I thank all the MECs for their commitment and the grounded province-specific knowledge that they have brought to bear. The interventions of the council of Ministers are a testimony to the reality of co-operative governance.
Through the exercising of their oversight responsibilities, the members of the select committee of the NCOP have given guidance to the policy development and programme implementation work of the department. I express my gratitude to all members of the select committee.
A large number of faith-based organisations, especially the churches, have assisted the department in dramatically increasing the take-up rates of the child support grant, and to them I express my gratitude. Their role in working with us is critical.
Let me open this policy debate by referring to recent decisions by the Council of Social Development Ministers on the poverty relief programme. It has been decided that for the current financial year, projects will be selected according to the following six criteria: firstly, the development of household food security through the establishment of food production clusters in communities, with a particular focus on households affected by HIV/Aids; secondly, the provision and maintenance of social support structures in communities where the prevalence of HIV/Aids and poverty is high; thirdly, the broadening of the skills base and the promotion of work opportunities for young people; fourthly, support for the income generation activities of rural women; fifthly, support to the community-based childcare initiatives that use and support the creative resources of older people; sixthly, support to initiatives that help to maintain people with disabilities in the Poverty Relief Programme; and, lastly, the development of locally based options for social financing to assist poor households with capacity.
These criteria are expected to result in building family support systems, economic empowerment and community institution-building as medium-term outcomes. The spirit of volunteerism based on solidarity and commitment to the poorest will have to flourish.
With respect to improvements in the delivery of social services, Minmec meetings have been used to monitor the implementation of the following projects: the reregistration of beneficiaries, the re-establishment of call centres, the rollout of communications and information technology, improvements in budgeting and financial management, the maintenance and replacement of Socpen, and the development of norms and standards for efficient administration.
These are critical projects, because social assistance plays a vital role in the alleviation of poverty for children, women, older people and people with disabilities and their families. The Department of Social Development provides social grants to over 3,5 million beneficiaries, representing income support for a large number of poor households. But much more needs to be done for those people who do not receive any assistance, especially children over seven years of age, the working poor and the people who are destitute.
The number of care-givers who receive child support grants continues to rise dramatically. As of May 2001, more than 1,2 million care-givers in poor families received the child support grants. The Department of Social Development is committed to the goal of providing child support grants to over three million children by the year 2003.
As the reregistration process draws to a close in most provinces, this process will have to be properly managed in a humane way with due regard for the rights of beneficiaries and the requirements of administrative justice. New guidelines on the review of all grant types have been incorporated into the amendments to the social assistance regulations. I appreciate the assistance provided by civil society organisations, especially the Black Sash, in monitoring what is happening in this regard.
There are a number of ongoing cases of litigation concerning the provision and administration of social assistance in the provinces. Every effort is being made to resolve these cases in the interests of all parties concerned. The ammedments to the social assistance regulations and the new guidelines are being implemented together with immediate and short-term measures to improve pension payouts. These measures are being implemented in consultation with pension committees, local authorities, payment contractors and the national Departments of Home Affairs, Health, and Safety and Security.
I have had a number of discussions with the payment contractors on ways of improving their service delivery. The resultant improvements are limited so far and the plight of disabled people and older people remains unacceptable. Grant payment contractors who do not uphold the dignity, respect and rights of our citizens must have their contracts reviewed. This situation is totally unacceptable.
Our grants system, Socpen, is neither appropriate nor up to the task of providing the kinds of management information required to ensure the effective delivery of social assistance. The Council of Social Development Ministers has agreed to replace the antiquated Socpen system within two years.
Alongside these developments, the committee of inquiry into a comprehensive social security system is scheduled to present its report to Cabinet by the end of July this year. Based upon an examination of the social and economic imperatives facing our country, the committee will provide Government with an empirical basis for considering a range of policy options. These options will address the gaps in the present system and issues of social inequality, income poverty, asset development, food security and diminished capabilities.
The comprehensive way in which Government is looking at the issue of social security is being extended to social welfare services. The transformation of social welfare services is being accelerated.
A national task team on the financing policy, consisting of four social development MECs and chaired by Mrs Phori, has concluded that financing for social development welfare must be reviewed as there are indications that it will not fundamentally change the pre-1994 status quo.
Based upon a rapid appraisal, the MECs concluded that while the financing policy provides principles to guide resource allocation in a developmental direction, it does not provide mechanisms that can translate these principles into action. I have therefore appointed the director-general of the national department to head a project team that will conduct a comprehensive review of the transformation of the provision of welfare services. These services are focused on vulnerable groups in society: the poor, older people, people with disabilities, women and children who are victims of violence, and young people.
The terms of reference of the project team are broad. They include the imperatives and objectives of social transformation, the adequacy of existing legislative frameworks, an audit of social welfare infrastructure, the recommendation of interim, short-term and medium-term measures, the setting of norms and standards and the costing of the programme of transformation. After consulting parliamentary committees the project team will present its report to the Council of Social Development Ministers by March 2002.
Some of the imperatives and challenges of transformation, especially of child and youth care services, have recently been highlighted by the death of a child at the Noupoort Christian Care Centre. Adherence to the Prevention and Treatment of Drug Dependency Act of 1992 needs to be complemented by appropriate standards of child protection. I understand the desperation of parents who see the Noupoort centre as a last resort, but parents and the relevant authorities must meet their overriding responsibility to protect children in such centres.
Concurrent with the work on the transformation of welfare services is the implementation of the recommendations of the Ministerial Committee on Abuse, Neglect and Ill-Treatment of Older Persons. This report was tabled in Parliament on 27 March and the national Cabinet has endorsed it. The Cabinet has directed the directors-general in the social sector cluster to develop an implementation plan, and the Department of Social Development has already drafted an outline of such a plan, to kick-start the work of the social sector cluster.
Once the Cabinet has approved the implementation plan, it will be widely publicised. This will help mobilise support both outside and within Government, and also enhance accountability. The Department of Social Development has also started working with the justice and crime prevention cluster to expand the scope of the Government’s Victim Empowerment Programme to include the abuse of older people. We hope that the members of the NCOP will also add value to the recommendations that are to be published. The President has directed that the provinces and local government councils should take up the recommendations and their implementation. This multisectoral response is necessary if the recommendations of the ministerial committee are to be implemented effectively.
In view of the terrible atrocities experienced by the elderly in their homes and communities, we have to review our policy of removing the elderly from institutions. The department has commenced with the implementation of those recommendations that fall within its ambit.
Improvements at paypoints are already under way. We are also opening discussions with commercial banks so that they can make special provisions for elderly pensioners, not only in terms of their facilities, but also with regard to their bank charges. The current use of paypoints to effect grant payments exposes older people to physical danger and violates their dignity.
In addition to these measures, the Department of Social Development has completed the first draft of the policy on the status of older persons and accompanying legislation. The department will conduct extensive consultations on the policy, with the view to introducing legislation in Parliament during the next session.
A task team drawn from the committee, consisting of Mr Tom Manthata, Ms Mary Turok and Mr Syd Eckley, has been requested to provide an implementation plan by the end of August this year. This work will include, firstly, the follow-up of all complaints and individual cases; secondly, an urgent audit of all government-funded residential homes and recommended action to be taken against those in breach of existing regulations, and what assistance should be given to homes in disadvantaged communities; and, thirdly, an investigation of the discounting of low-interest loans by the pre-1994 government, and the extent to which conditions attached to this discounting have been complied with.
I am confident that as a result of these actions, it will not be said that the mothers and fathers of our nation are the forgotten people.
I would now like to address the integrated and comprehensive response to HIV/Aids that the Department of Social Development is making, together with other departments and civil society organisations. Our integrated and comprehensive response to HIV/Aids encompasses reliable research information, sustainable social protection, the promotion of rights, the empowerment of vulnerable groups, risk management and a human resource development strategy. Some of this work is channelled through the National Aids and Children Task Team, which includes Government departments, NGOs, the Save the Children Fund, the United Kingdom and Unicef.
As part of the National Integrated Plan for Children and Youth Infected and Affected by HIV/Aids, the Departments of Social Development and Health are jointly implementing a programme to support community and home-based care of children affected by HIV/Aids and other infectious diseases. Implementation of this programme has already begun in some areas in six provinces; Tsolo in the Eastern Cape; De Aar in the Northern Cape; Jouberton in the North West; Polokwane, Maraba and Mashashane in the Northern Province; Tonga in Mpumalanga; and Welkom in the Free State.
As much as 80% of the funds allocated to the department for community and home-based care, and support in the 2001-02 financial year has been transferred to the six provinces as conditional grants. Although implementation of the community-based care programmes has begun, I am not satisfied with the pace of implementation. Furthermore, we still do not have accurate information from the provinces about the number of children who are benefiting, the types of support being provided and the implementation structures utilised.
The home and community-based support teams that are being created are but one of a number of social protection measures being implemented. We will be integrating HIV/Aids counselling into our victim empowerment programme. The Law Commission is considering measures to facilitate substitute care for children infected and affected by HIV/Aids. When we talk about home and community-based care for children infected and affected by HIV/Aids, we are not referring to theoretical models or alien concepts. I would like to invite members of the NCOP to join me on Friday, 8 June 2001, at Agape Children’s Home in Waterfall, next to Durban.
As part of our Poverty Relief Programme, we have been providing support to community projects that provide care for abandoned and abused children. The Agape Home also caters for children infected and affected by HIV/Aids, many of whom continue to reside in the surrounding community, while receiving food parcels and medical care from the home. Under the leadership of Mrs Zodwa Mqadi of the Agape Children’s Home, the Apostolic Faith Mission, volunteer medical personnel, the Department of Social Development and the business sector have forged a partnership that is making a difference.
There is no extended family in South Africa which is not in some direct way dealing with the impact of HIV/Aids. Our people are stretching their meagre resources to provide care for people infected and affected, especially children. It is this compassion and spirit of volunteerism that is required to make sure that hope takes the place of despair. It is vital that our policy debates are informed and inspired by the actions of civic-minded community members who, every day in their lives, give concrete expression to the saying: Umntwana womnye umntu ngumntwana wam. Umntwana wam ngumtwana womnye umntu. [Your child is my child and mine is yours.]
This saying has, from time immemorial, characterised the communal commitment of the older people and, indeed, families to the wellbeing and upbringing of all children. It is in close keeping with this year’s national theme for child protection week: ``child protection is everybody’s business.’’
In the area of violence against women and their children, our focus has been on ensuring the more effective implementation of existing policy. With respect to the Domestic Violence Act of 1998, the department has been involved in the training of social workers and lay counsellors on domestic violence.
We now have better information on the existence of shelters for abused women and children, and the national and provincial departments will establish more shelters in areas where prevalence of domestic violence is high. In addition, the continued implementation of victim empowerment programmes is one of the priorities of the justice and crime prevention cluster for the 2001-02 financial year.
I would like to conclude my contribution to the policy debate in the NCOP by focusing on issues of youth development.
One of the Department of Social Development’s key objectives for the 2001- 02 financial year is to ensure that more of our programmes focus on the promotion of youth employment and enterprise. This is in line with the national youth economic participation strategy developed jointly by the National Youth Commission, the Department of Labour and Ntsika Enterprises.
We are promoting an increased focus, through the poverty relief programme, on the establishment of urban regeneration initiatives for unemployed youth and youth at risk. This includes training and job creation initiatives for young people. The Department of Social Development proposes to devote 18% of its 2001-02 poverty relief budget allocation to providing young people with skills and reducing youth criminality. Increased youth unemployment, accompanied by poverty and other social pathologies such as drug dependency, creates more alienation and reinforces some of the patterns of exclusion from the apartheid era.
I am particularly concerned about the relationship between unemployment, gangsterism, substance abuse and increases in violence. Components of the National Drug Master Plan that focus on youth will thus be prioritised for implementation.
As part of the Government’s urban renewal programme, 18 projects will be established to increase the work opportunities of young people. This will be done through mentorships, skills training and assistance with placement. Two projects will be established per province and each project is expected to accommodate 500 young people.
We will never forget the contributions that young people made in the struggle to create a democratic South Africa. The United Nations has declared the year 2001 as the International Year of Volunteerism, and we appeal to and encourage our youth to participate with the same commitment and dedication that they showed in the struggle against apartheid. [Applause.]
Ms L JACOBUS: Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs, special delegates and members, I just want to start off by saying that I want to note my disappointment at the absence of the MECs. From the speakers’ list, I have noted that there are two MECs and I hope that I am not offending anybody by not recognising them as an MEC.
I think that it is not acceptable that in a debate of such importance as this one on Social Development, which actually goes to the heart of social transformation in our country, we have the political heads of social development in the provinces not present and not participating and enriching our debates at this level. I would like to appeal to you, chairperson, as the Presiding Officer and part of the leadership of this institution, to raise it at the necessary forum, either the presiding officers’ forum or whichever forum you might sit on.
Having said that, I rise to support Budget Vote No 17 - Social Development. The Select Committee on Social Services agreed that we would use the department’s overall priorities as a basis for our debate. In preparing for today, we asked the department to present to the committee its priorities for 2001, an overview of its Poverty Relief Programme and the departmental budget for the current financial year. The identified themes flowing from these presentation are as follows: firstly, the general transformation of the department; secondly, access to social security; and, thirdly, service delivery. I am going to try to cover some of the areas that we have identified and I am sure that my colleagues who will be speaking after me will cover the others.
The policy debate in the NCOP is a unique opportunity to reflect on where we are going to as a nation in relation to our poor and most vulnerable. Even more importantly, the debate creates an opportunity for us to pinpoint our shortcomings and also highlight our achievements to enable us to learn from one another’s experiences.
This policy debate must review funding mechanisms including subsidisation of the most vulnerable in each province to ensure that we are still firmly on the course which we mapped out in 1994, that of transforming our nation and creating a better life for all our people. We must also not lose sight of the fact that pre-1994 there was an unequal and inequitable distribution of resources to our different communities and, therefore, in trying to redress this, provinces have varying financial needs and priorities.
Regarding transformation, poverty alleviation and its ultimate eradication has been a priority of this Government since 1994, hence the declaration of a war on poverty in 1996. In observing some of the budget hearings of the finance committees of both Houses, we noted that poverty alleviation moneys are allocated to a number of government departments. What concerned us was that most of these have consistently reported underspending in these funds. The question that immediately comes to mind, given the abject poverty, hunger and unemployment being experienced by large sections of our communities, is: How is it possible that these various departments report that they could not spend this money? I personally find it difficult to understand and even more difficult to explain to a woman that begs with a baby on her back at the traffic light.
I was relieved to hear that part of the plan of the department for this year was to look at the implementation of a revised monitoring and evaluation system and an audit of all pilot projects since 1996. During our interaction with the department we requested a list including physical addresses of all these projects in each province. We have now received some of that information and are looking at ways in which we, as a select committee, can assist in monitoring and evaluating those projects that are already in existence.
In addition, we want to assist in identifying poverty pockets in our various provinces so that funds allocated for poverty alleviation can be spread further and faster. I want to be bold and propose that there be a meeting of the minds among Government departments, led by the hon the Minister, to look at a creative way of ensuring that this money goes where it is supposed to go, with the least amount of fuss and paperwork.
Linked to this is the whole question of the integrated rural development strategy, of which the Department of Social Development is a very important role-player. As a select committee, we are anxiously awaiting a presentation on the planned strategy that will, in real terms, eliminate the cycle of poverty, especially in our rural communities where a large number of women and children are found.
Another area of concern which the Minister has also referred to, is the question of home-based care for the terminally ill, especially Aids sufferers.
Every day we hear reports of people being rejected by their families and communities because they were diagnosed HIV positive. In addition, hospitals send people home when imminent death resulting from an Aids- related illness is clear. Many a time, these people are left to die a painful and lonely death. We should continuously emphasise the fact that people dying of Aids are, indeed, entitled to the same dignified care given to a person dying of cancer or any other terminal illness. Certainly, the introduction of the community home-based care model together with the Department of Health is a positive step in the restoration of this dignity. The hon the Minister’s department should, however, also seek to strengthen its working relationship with NGOs, CBOs and faith-based organisations rendering the same service in various communities, and I think that he has spoken about that, as well. By forging these partnerships we can minimise the financial and human resource burden on Government, and funds allocated to HIV/Aids programmes will be better spent. If the projected statistics given to the Portfolio Committee on Social Development, which we observed, are accurate, then in the not so distant future it seems that we are going to be a country composed of the very young and the very old.
The department therefore needs to present improved strategies, both financial and social, which will incorporate other role-players to cope holistically with the impact of this pandemic.
This brings me to the second theme, which is access to social security. Here I want to focus specifically on orphaned children and particularly those orphaned by Aids. More and more there are children-headed households, left to fend for themselves because their parents have died. Some heads of households are as young as 11 or 12. If the mother, now having died, had been in receipt of the child support grant for the youngest, maybe just turning seven, it means that very soon this family will have no financial means of support.
These children, now driven by hunger and desperation, will no doubt find themselves on the street, exposing themselves to all kinds of abuse. Neither the social assistance grant nor the child support grant makes provision for children-headed households to access these grants. They require the primary care-giver to be 18 years and older.
We know that most of the time these children are abandoned and shunned by their relatives and the community. We might have to look at amending some of our legislation to accommodate these child-headed families. We cannot expect society to be caring if we as Government do not set the example.
We know that the Minister and his department are concerned about social security in general and, to this end, have set up a commission of inquiry to investigate a comprehensive social security package. As the select committee, we also intend to examine an international model that will, it is hoped, assist us in coming up with a comprehensive package suited to our needs. We look forward to the department’s report on the matter at the end of July 2001, as the Minister has said.
We believe that the department needs to play a more active role in communicating exactly which grants are available, who is eligible and how to apply for them, and also that the department should set up a strategic plan to reach those beneficiaries.
It is disturbing to note that most provinces have not reached their child support grant provincial targets. From the documentation we received from the department, provinces below the 50% mark are the Free State with only a 33,9% uptake, the Eastern Cape with a 36,5% uptake, and the Northern Province with a 49,4% uptake. Maybe the MECs and our special delegates present can provide us with some explanation for this occurrence. Strangely, Gauteng exceeded its target with a 246% uptake.
Coming to service delivery, on page 6 of the Saturday Star of 2 June - this past Saturday - there was an article on a Mrs Elizabeth Kunene, 69, having been born in 1932, who, after many attempts to secure a state pension, died without it ever being granted. I must hasten to say that this was a result not of the workings of this department, but those of the Department of Home Affairs. Her ID wrongly stated that she was born in 1950.
Why is it that the people that contributed to the economy of this country, both directly and indirectly, find themselves in constant confrontation with an inaccessible, insensitive bureaucracy? We suggest to the Minister that his department liaise more closely with the Department of Home Affairs to prevent us having another Mrs Kunene.
We pledged our support to the department when it embarked on the reregistration campaign to root out corruption and ghost beneficiaries. But we want to further recommend that, before a grant or pension is stopped or withdrawn, all efforts be made to communicate with the beneficiary to inform him or her about the decision and the reasons why.
There should be no reason why a person, having drawn a pension the previous month, should suddenly find himself or herself off the system the next month, without prior notification. As the Minister is aware, most of these grants and pensions are the only source of income for many families. As a caring Government, we need to be sensitive to the needs of our people.
This brings us to a very sore point, which we have raised year after year: the infrastructure. The Minister mentioned this as well. The infrastructure at some of these paypoints, especially in the rural areas, leaves much to be desired. The Minister acknowledged this after his visits to the provinces recently. The elderly and the disabled have to brave the harsh weather conditions for long periods of time without a chair to sit on, food to eat, water to drink or, in the event of a medical emergency, anyone to attend to them. This, I think, in anybody’s book would amount to abuse. However, I am happy to hear that this matter is receiving attention from the department, as the Minister indicated in his input.
Once again I would like to say to the Minister that a partnership is needed between his department and local government, NGOs, business, community organisations and volunteers. We further propose an implementation plan with specific timeframes attached to it to improve the physical conditions at these paypoints. I want members of the select committee to commit themselves to visiting these paypoints in their constituencies, especially those in the rural areas, listing all those which do not have the abovementioned facilities, and forwarding this information to their departments and their provincial counterparts to be acted upon.
Another thorn in the flesh was caused by the reports on television and in other media of abuse of our senior citizens. We want to commend the Minister for having acted so swiftly in constituting a ministerial committee to investigate the matter. It was after the receipt of the report of this Ministerial Committee on Abuse, Neglect and Ill-treatment of Older Persons - in which these senior citizens themselves described how they were being ill-treated and abused by all and sundry - that we were hit in the face with the harsh reality.
It is a shame that people who raised us, cared for us and gave us the best years of our lives when we were vulnerable and in need of care, should now, in their twilight years, live in fear of us, their children and grandchildren. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I am pleased to see that members are awake, particularly Mr Ackermann. [Laughter.]
Ms Z DLUNGWANA (Free State): Chairperson, hon Minister, hon MECs and hon members, I would like to start my speech by quoting President Mbeki:
Among the yardsticks by which to measure a society’s respect for human rights, to evaluate the level of its maturity and its generosity of spirit, is by looking at the status that it accords to those members of society who are most vulnerable, disabled people, the senior citizens and its children.
He goes further to say that the concept of a caring society is strengthened and deepened when we recognise that we have a responsibility to care for them.
In the seven years in which the ANC has been in Government more has been done for these three categories of people and the poor, in general, than at any time in the 40 years of Nationalist Party rule.
The social security system within the department ensures that the basic necessities for human existence for the poorest of the poor are met. The system is primarily aimed at alleviating poverty among those vulnerable members of our community who are unable to support themselves. This security is provided through the payment of cash grants.
The total allocation for the Free State social welfare department is R1,3 billion. The allocation for social security alone amounts to R1,2 billion, which represent 88,05% of the total Vote.
In the six months from September 2000 to February 2001 there was a sharp increase in the number of grant beneficiaries. In September 2000, 138 000 beneficiaries were paid an amount of R78 million. In February 2001, 157 000 beneficiaries were paid an amount of approximately R93 million. This is an increase of 20 000 beneficiaries in these six months. The department is predicting an increase of 10% in the number of beneficiaries during the financial year, and overexpenditure of about R130 million is projected for the current year.
The new system of paying out grants, that is, the Allpay system, has been completed. Strategies to increase child support grant applications have been formulated and will be launched soon. Towns with the lowest intakes will be targeted. The R30 increase in the grants was well received in our province. It will, indeed, make a difference. The department is still faced with the following challenges: to improve conditions at payout points, and to reduce the number of people receiving grants at each point.
The main concern, however, is the removal of disabled people - those whose disabilities are not regarded as severe enough - from the social system before the income-generating project they are put into is sustainable and able to provide income to participants. The department is also providing social welfare facilities and services to children, the youth, women, families, the elderly, and to special development areas such as disability, HIV/Aids and substance abuse. This year, as in other years, the department has recommitted itself towards ensuring that services and resources are allocated in such a manner as to redress historical imbalances and injustices and to meet the present needs. I am sorry!
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Since you are an hon member, we will have to fine you for allowing your cellular phone to ring. [Laughter.]
Ms Z DLUNGWANA: In order to bring into effect the provisions of the Domestic Violence Act, a support centre for victims of abuse, the Tshepong Victim Support Centre, was established. This centre provides welfare and support services under one roof. Four additional such centres will be established in needy communities in the province during the current financial year.
The availability of safe accommodation is important for victims of domestic violence, especially in cases where it is too dangerous for victims to stay in the family home. The conversion of the Monument Place of Safety into a one-stop youth justice and secure centre is on track. The centre, which is the first of its kind in the Free State, is under construction and will be opened during October 2001. Child abuse and neglect remain among the most serious crimes of our times. Children are vulnerable to physical, emotional and sexual abuse. In terms of the Child Care Act of 1983, all cases of abuse should be reported to the department. A policy procedure on the notification of child abuse was drafted and is being implemented. The department reports that during 2000 a total of 662 cases of abuse were reported and investigated.
Services to street children are still limited in the Free State and confined to Bloemfontein. The objective of the department for the current year is to establish outreach programmes and drop-in centres in seven communities in the province. A total of 726 early childhood development centres are registered with the department. These centres take care of 43 363 children. The department is committed to ensuring that services to educare centres are improved and comply with standards set by the department. However, there is still no integration of disabled children in these centres.
The launch of the antipoverty strategy of the province last year signalled a turning point in the department’s plans and activities around poverty alleviation. The department recognises the need for a macro approach to poverty eradication. All departments in the province contribute in one way or another to the effort to eradicate poverty.
In the last year more focus was placed on bigger projects that will ensure that income is generated for participants and that the projects become more sustainable. The partnership involving the Departments of Education and Social Development and the Tender Board continues with the packaging of learner support material for schools in the Free State, using unemployed women, the youth and persons with disabilities.
During 2000 and 2001 this project created employment for 2 200 people for seven months. The province targeted Qwaqwa in the eastern Free State and the southern Free State, both areas affected by poverty, for economic development.
The department continues to address the problem of HIV/Aids. The main concern, however, is that there is still no clear strategy as to how we reach the deaf and the blind in the fight against HIV/Aids. If we continue to believe that persons with disabilities are not sexually active and exclude them from HIV/Aids programmes, we will not win the fight against HIV/Aids.
The introduction of a national policy approach aimed at slowing down the institutionalisation of older persons resulted in a number of initiatives, the objective of which is to find alternative solutions to institutional care. This led, in our province, to the transformation of old age homes into multipurpose facilities. Two institutions were identified to pilot this new policy shift.
The Itireleng project was introduced in the province to explore new ways through which services could be provided to the elderly while they are still part of their families and communities.
Finally, I would like to thank the Minister for the interest and assistance he continues to give to the Free State and, in particular, to our grant beneficiaries. [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I call upon the hon Dlungwana - I mean the hon Mr Durr. I do not think Ms Dlungwana wishes to speak twice. Mr K D S DURR: I should not be on the speakers’ list, Madam Chair. I did not request it and I do not want to speak.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All right. Well, you are on the list. We will then call on the hon Moloto.
Mr S MOLOTO (Northern Province): Hon Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity.
The Northern Province’s department of health and welfare would like to add its voice of appreciation for the opportunity to participate in this debate and also to commend the Minister of Social Development for his political leadership and guidance in the social development sector.
We reaffirm our unshakeable belief that we shall overcome the legacy of our historical past, when resources were unequally distributed to the disadvantaged majority of our people. The struggle never was only about political freedom and democracy; it was, and remains, a struggle for equity, for access to resources and the improvement of the lives of the people.
Our Constitution guarantees certain basic rights in the chapter dealing with the Bill of Rights. These rights are, of course, guaranteed for all South Africans. Given the legacy of apartheid, which was characterised by inequities in terms of political and social discrimination, the actual realisation of these rights remains a daunting challenge to Government and all South Africans.
The most vulnerable sections of our society, that is the disabled, the elderly, women and children, continue to bear the severest brunt of this apartheid legacy, notwithstanding these guaranteed constitutional provisions.
The Northern Province has always been one of the provinces characterised by the migrant labour system. The social ills of this system have, to a large extent, led to the disparities in the allocation for welfare and social development for the province. The economically active members of our population are located largely in provinces like Gauteng and only return to our province when they retire.
This anomaly presents untold difficulties in planning and budget projections for the social security grants. In the first five years of democratic government, we blamed our problems on the administrative weaknesses of our department. But after the engagement of the temporary staff employed during the reregistration campaign, we are able to sort out the outstanding applications and we are now in a position to quantify the backlog.
As at 18 May 2001 the total backlog in terms of the number of beneficiaries of our social security stood at 97 572, totalling about R56 590 380. Our budget can only allow a new intake of about 54 000 beneficiaries. This implies that we will remain with a backlog of 44 000 beneficiaries which will require about R31,2 million, which is unfortunately not provided for in our budget.
The majority of these beneficiaries are in the category of the most active grants, like old age pensions, which stand at 11 031, disability grants, which stand at 8 098, and child support grants, which stand at 66 508.
We now know that around September or October we will be finished with the approval of the new entrants and waiting for the new financial year to start with the new intake. Beneficiaries are required to wait more than eight months for their grants, not because of administrative weaknesses, but because the budget does not allow us to proceed with the approvals.
We also know that this waiting period contravenes the provisions of the Social Assistance Act, as the waiting period provided for in the Act is about three months. There is not much we can do about it unless more funds are provided to address the problem.
Our provincial welfare funding is below the national average. It stands at 18,69%, whilst the national average is at 19,5%. The social security grants remain the most direct poverty alleviation intervention provided by this Government. This remains the Government’s primary investment in poverty alleviation. It is disturbing to hear how unscrupulous elements within our society would like to spoil this intervention.
The report of the ministerial committee of inquiry into the abuse of the elderly attests to this point. Government and organs of civil society should together find ways and means of dealing with this problem. Our fathers and mothers, who have made an immense contribution in the development of this country, should not be robbed of their remaining livelihood and dignity by these societal outcasts. We should mobilise our communities and the people in general to utilise other legislative provisions like the Domestic Violence Act in order to curb these mishaps.
The country is continuously experiencing the breakdown of social networks through the much-discussed phenomenon of moral decay. The incidence of abuse of what is largely the most vulnerable section of society arises from this new phenomenon. African values are continuously being undermined by the devastating effects of this new creation.
Civil society’s response has not been adequate in capping the effects. In the light of the HIV/Aids pandemic our African extended family system is also stretched to the limits. We should live up to the call of our President to build a caring society. We hope that task team responsible for developing an implementation plan from the recommendations of the inquiry into the abuse of the elderly will provide us with the necessary platform to restore both our African and family values.
In line with our commitment to the Operation Dignity and Batho Pele initiatives, the department has embarked on a campaign to encourage our social security beneficiaries to open up accounts in banks and post offices so that the department can effect electronic transfers. We are further encouraging the most vulnerable to register with us their trusted next of kin who should receive the grants on their behalf. We believe that this system will go a long way in reducing the long queues at our paypoints and the unpalatable sight of people being pushed around in wheelbarrows under the scorching sun and sometimes heavy downpours of rain.
Given the acute lack of resources and the competing basic needs of our province, the reality is that the development of paypoints is going to take a very long time. We have 1916 paypoints. We have started with the development of two pilot project paypoints in the Moletlane and Dan villages. These we have recently opened.
On the poverty alleviation front, we have managed to identify impediments which have been weakening this programme. These range from a lack of proper planning to poor co-ordination and co-operation among departments, as well as a lack of marketing opportunities and poor financial management and bookkeeping skills by the members involved in these projects. We are engaging broadly with organisations of civil society, particularly organised business, to overcome these problems.
Discussions with the provincial tender board are under way, with a view to the boards looking into ways of opening up the market for the poverty alleviation projects. We are going to be moving from the small-projects approach to integrated programmes which will be linked to the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy.
The provincial Victim Empowerment Management Forum has been established, and it is making serious inroads in steering programmes related to women and children who are victims of family violence. So far our department has collaborated with the SAPS in the establishment of safe houses in Seshego, and trauma centres in Tzaneen and Thohoyandou. We have just opened a new victim empowerment centre in Bolobedu. We did so last week on Friday, on the occasion of International Children’s Day.
We are also working in collaboration with the SAPS and the Department of Justice when it comes to children and young people in trouble with the law. Our social workers continue to play an important role in promoting juvenile justice.
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: It seems to me the subject of social development is so challenging that it renders my members extremely tired and subdued. [Laughter.]
Mr N V E NGIDI (KwaZulu-Natal): Madam Chair, it has become customary when beginning a speech on a Budget vote to start by thanking the Minister for his budget speech. I would like to keep up with the tradition and congratulate the Minister. I do so not so much out of tradition and custom, but because under the leadership of this Minister, the Department of Social Development has occupied centre stage in the war against poverty. He has brought hope to a number of households and families whose lives hitherto have experienced a continuous progression into the abysmal depths of poverty.
As we speak, there are people who have begun to taste the better life that this Government promised to bring about. As a result of the poverty alleviation programme, there are children who have been able to return to school, thus being assured of a brighter future. Many women who are part of the poverty alleviation projects have earned the respect of their husbands, and generally the menfolk in their areas. Thus the emancipation of women has, in these areas, become a reality.
Let it not be understood that I am saying that we have reached the land of milk and honey. There is still a long way to go. We have just begun the road to poverty eradication. It is a road that is fraught with hardships, challenges and even dangers. We need to be aware of these.
The players in the projects always have a mountain to climb. Firstly, they are disadvantaged due to the fact that they are entering a field in which they have no experience. If they want to generate income they have to compete with established business concerns. Because of literacy problems they do not understand the finer details of running a business. For instance, price pegging is something that one can do best if one understands market trends. Furthermore, they cannot even engage in market research exercises. These projects need a lot of nursing by the Government. Giving them money and then thinking one’s job has been done can be problematic.
The legal status of the projects needs to be clarified. There are many problems that are created by this situation. How does one determine the ownership of the project property? How does a project enter into a contract with other business concerns with which it is doing business? How are the people responsible protected in cases where business deals fall through? Is there no possibility that they may find themselves worse off than before, being sued for business they got into, pursuing the interests of the project?
Other issues that need to be looked into are the following: Firstly, paralegal training has to be provided for those involved in projects. They need to appreciate which of their actions are legal, and which are not. Besides, if one does not know the law, it is easy to get into an illegal and unenforceable contract. Secondly, there must be periodical training for members of a project to continually enhance the capacity of these members. We should not forget that these people have to perform in a world that is increasingly commercially complex. Thirdly, we need to appreciate that support for these programmes must go beyond the initiating phase. Structures that will play a supportive role to these programmes must be set up. Finally, it is important that we be properly briefed on the progress of the projects under the poverty alleviation programme. How many of them have succeeded and how many have failed, and what are the reasons therefor?
In this regard we need to examine whether it is not possible to broaden the mandate of the disbursing agencies to include monitoring the progress of the projects. Granted, provinces must be seized with this task, but we need to appreciate their constraints and find a way of supplementing and enhancing their monitoring capability. [Applause.]
Mr J O TLHAGALE: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon MECs present and the
honourable House, the name change of the department from Welfare'' to
Social Development’’ is a significant and interesting issue. Welfare''
creates the impression of perpetual dependency, butdevelopment’’ gives
the impression of empowerment and growth. So it is gratifying to note that
the department is shifting away from the welfare approach of the past to a
social development perspective.
The criticism that haunted the department early last year in connection with the unspent poverty relief funds is now a thing of the past. I suppose the hon the Minister is now able to look his colleagues in the face, for he owes no man any explanation in respect of unspent funds.
The North West is predominantly rural, and the main means of livelihood for the majority of the population is agriculture. However, in the past few years, commercial farming has collapsed, mostly among the black commercial farmers. The result of this collapse is that 62,1% of the population, according to departmental statistics, is living in poverty.
This is a serious situation, and the poverty relief projects, as welcome as they are, cannot adequately address and remedy the disaster I have referred to. The Department of Agriculture needs to come in to address this problem.
The child support grant for children under seven is playing a significant role in our poverty-stricken society. The intention is good, and it is morally correct that we must care for our children and our grand-children. However, if, due to massive unemployment in the country, a young girl claims for two or three children in order to use the grant as her monthly income, then the good intention is marred by this latter step, and it is no longer morally acceptable.
It is gratifying to note that during the course of last year, a ministerial committee undertook visits to several provinces at which it interfaced with communities on a collective as well as on an individual basis. A report of the ministerial Committee on Abuse, Neglect and Ill-treatment of Elder Persons, dated the 26 February 2001. bears testimony to the seriousness that the Minister attaches to this issue of the elderly persons.
The report is detailed and covers several weaknesses in the system, complaints and accusations by the elderly. The Minister deserves our congratulations and support.
The next step is for the department to address all the problems that are there in terms of the report. Then, when this is done, there should be an improvement related to the issue of the elderly persons. It is noted with appreciation that this department has not lagged behind in the fight against HIV/Aids and has accepted the need for a multisectoral response to the epidemic. However, one would be failing in one’s duty if one did not call for the necessary medication urgently needed to combat this epidemic. Human life is more precious than an monetary value.
In conclusion, I wish to congratulate the hon the Minister on the report on the elderly persons and today’s speech, and to indicate that the UCDP supports this Budget Vote.
Mr H T SOGONI: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon MECs and members, allow me to join my colleagues by speaking in support of Budget Vote No 17. The key objectives and the programmes of the department are very explicit in the budget and in line with its mission to enable the poor, vulnerable and excluded people in South Africa to secure a better life for themselves.
The Minister is particularly commended for his bold statement that commits the department to the maximum utilisation of funds allocated to the Poverty Relief Programme. Target groups in the programme are poor women, unemployed youth, child-headed households, children, the aged and the disabled, especially from the rural areas. HIV/Aids, the improvement of access to quality service delivery in social security, the rights of vulnerable groups and the transformation of welfare services also feature prominently in the department’s priorities. All the above measures are intended to redress the socioeconomic inequalities of the past, particularly among the rural black communities.
However, the report on public hearings conducted by the committee on the abuse, neglect and ill-treatment of older persons tells us that our problems are multiple and diverse. Both the country’s social stability and the moral fibre of our communities are under serious threat.
The report by the Human Rights Watch on sexual violence in South African schools is another shameful testimony to the terrible situations which keep the innocent and defenceless in constant fear of victimisation. Who are these perpetrators? They are, of course, our own sons, brothers and fathers. I am not too sure of this, but perhaps our daughters, sisters and mothers have also joined in.
The department proposes a programme on the restoration of the ethics of care and human development and the urgent rebuilding of family, community and social relations to promote social integration.
Ingena apha ke intetho yoMphathiswa, oHloniphekileyo, esikhuthazayo ethi masiyikhumbule into yokuba umntwana womnye umntu ngumntwana wam, umntwana wam ngumntwana womnye umntu. Usikhumbuza, ke umhlekazi wam, indlela umntwana abefudula ekhuliswa ngayo. Mhlawumbi sakuncamathela kuyo, ezi zinto zingamanyumnyezi zenzekayo ziyakutshabalala. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[The hon Minister’s motivating speech reminds us of the way in which we used to consider that a child of someone else is my child, and my child is someone else’s. The hon Minister is reminding us of the way in which a child was brought up. Perhaps if we could cling to it, all these horrible things that are happening would come to an end.]
In its 10-point plan, the department has identified the need to establish a national unit to monitor, evaluate and audit the administration of social security to deal with unacceptably high levels of fraud and leakage, another social malady. The step by the department is welcome. In fact, the Eastern Cape government is already taking steps against social security corruption. The recently reported arrest of officers in Bizana is one example of fraud combating.
The department is also correctly focusing on training a new category of workers to improve service delivery. This is directly or indirectly informed by the first-hand reports received from the provincial visits by the Minister in 2000.
Without painting all workers with the same brush, it is true, of course, that the work ethic, attitude and human relations of some of them leave much to be desired.
The delay in the processing of applications is, in some cases, incompatible with the provisions of the department, which emphasise, among other points, keeping the applicant informed about progress and explaining delays, or keeping delays within reasonable limits.
Mphathiswa, ngokumalunga nalo mba, kukho iimeko ezimbi phaya ekuhlaleni, apho izicelo zabantu abafuna uncedo zithabatha into engaphezulu konyaka kwabanye abantu. Ndinayo imizekelo emibini yoko. Kambe ke iphethwe. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[Hon Minister, with regard to this issue, we should note that there are very bad situations among communities, of people’s applications taking more than a year before they are considered. I have two such examples. However, they are being investigated.]
In conclusion, it has been noted that the budget allocation for poverty relief has been reduced over the medium term due to the limited capacity of the department, and with a view to concentrating on the improvement and monitoring of the projects already in existence.
Although I agree that the department cannot continue pumping money into projects without sufficient capacity, it is only hoped that the department will soon take the necessary steps to increase the required capacity for the needy communities to enjoy the full benefits to which they are entitled. [Applause.]
Mr M V NGEMA (KwaZulu-Natal): Madam Chair, first of all I wish to thank the hon the Minister, and not only because he is among the 25% of the South African population who have chosen KwaZulu-Natal as their home. Even the former President, Dr Mandela, during his visit to the province, indicated that if God himself decided to come and reside on this planet, he would choose that province. [Laughter.] But the real reason for thanking the hon the Minister is his concern and passion for the poor and the destitute of our country. The visits that the Minister has made to the various provinces have raised the level of his understanding of the challenges facing social development in this country in general and the provinces in particular. We heard this in his address to this Council, in which he stressed his commitment to the youth as the future of our country; his commitment to the combating of violence against women and children; his statement to the effect that children must be everybody’s business; and his commitment to strengthening community participation in development and in unblocking the hindrances to service delivery. As citizens we feel proud of the Minister’s statements and actions.
Investment in infrastructure development is not a matter of choice, but it is imperative. My definition of infrastructure is not limited to the availability of roads, electricity, schools, and telecommunications, but includes knowledge, understanding by communities and the wisdom that is there, waiting for Government and the rest of us who are agents for change and development to come to our senses. Let us begin to recognise and acknowledge its existence and value and the vital role that wisdom and understanding play in the broader scheme of things in effecting service delivery in the area of social development, where the need is always the greatest.
I also include information that is not there among local communities, the information that is important for them to act upon, bringing about sustainable social healing and development, to which my colleague the hon Mr Ngidi referred. The flagship programmes which the department is running should, by all means, start with women so that they are brought to a position where they can take care of themselves, and their children in particular.
I happen to have visited the opening of one such programme by the provincial Minister in Qhudeni last week, on 28 May 2001, where a plea was made by men and the amakhosi to the effect that they should not be left out for good. They indicated that this may require men to begin to struggle, so to speak.
Concerning this year’s budget, the Minister comes from an area where the scarcity of resources is described in terms of one having the need to distribute the kidney of a bird to one’s family members to share as a meal. Unfortunately, whether the kidney is that of ungcede or ijuba, the Zulu simply say ``inyoni’’.
We in KwaZulu-Natal appreciate the Minister’s strategy, which looks beyond the short-term relief of poverty. Like the hon the Minister, we believe that making poverty less painful cannot be our objective as a nation. Poverty and the people are not meant to coexist. If people are to survive, poverty must go.
In conclusion, may I plead for a fresh look by the national and provincial government departments at whether our country’s understanding of the role of the population and development unit is the correct one. I am suggesting this because I believe that this unit should be exploring the future for us, way ahead of other Government departments, advising and recommending strategic policy options. I do not think that our current budget allocation empowers this unit to do any meaningful work towards meeting our future challenges.
We thank the Minister for the support and co-operation our provincial Minister has received from him and the officials of his department. I support the budget. [Applause.]
Ms E C GOUWS: Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs and members, I would like to thank the Minister for his positive message. All of us should try to implement these very good programmes that he has proposed.
South Africa is the only developing country in sub-Sarahan Africa with a noncontributory social security net, and an analysis of the current social security system reveals that many of the poorest and most vulnerable are often failed by the system which should be protecting them. Social services are the only lifeline of many, but even this lifeline is tenuous and often functions ineffectively.
South Africa has a poverty rate of 45%. This translates into 3,1 million households, or more than 18 million citizens living below the poverty line in households earning less than R352,53 per month per adult. Ten million people live in ultra-poor households earning less than R195,77 per month per adult.
South Africa needs a social security system which is simple to understand and administer. Put people first and remove these incentives.
Ons stel voor dat alle aansoekers vir maatskaplike pensioene net een baie eenvoudige eisvorm moet invul wat alle maatskaplike toelae insluit. Pensioenuitbetalings moet oor ‘n tydperk van ‘n paar dae gedoen word sodat almal voldoende tyd het om vervoerreëlings te tref, na uitbetalingspunte te gaan en ook om ander noodsaaklike reëlings te tref.
Pensioentrekkers moet bewus gemaak word van bankrekeninge. Die voordele en gerief daarvan moet aan hulle verduidelik word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[We suggest that all applicants for social pensions should complete only one very simple claim form which includes all social grants. Pension pay- outs should be made over a period of a few days in order to give everyone enough time to make arrangements for transport, go to paypoints and also make other necessary arrangements.
Pensioners should be made aware of bank accounts. The benefits and convenience of bank accounts should be explained to them.]
On the subject of children, since 1994 the Government has been promising poor children that it will improve their lives. However, child poverty appears to be increasing. It is estimated that three in five children live in poor households. It is estimated that there are already around 150 000 children orphaned, owing to HIV/Aids. According to the Financial and Fiscal Commission, only 33% of the estimated 3 million children who are eligible for childcare grants are actually receiving them. Processes for receiving grants must be simplified to make them more readily accessible, and we say that grants should be extended to all children under 16, not just children under seven.
Regarding the disabled, we must remove the barriers which prevent the full integration of disabled persons into society. It is estimated that 5% to 12% of the South African population is disabled, but only 0,2% is in active employment. We would like to see more rehabilitation centres, and unimpeded access to buildings made compulsory.
The abuse of the elderly has come under the spotlight recently. The DP aims to keep the focus on the elderly by calling for an amendment to the Aged Persons Act, Act 81 of 1967, which will, firstly, set up a regulatory council for the care of the aged, which will administer a national code of conduct and monitor care facilities for the aged, and make it a criminal offence for any person to subject an aged person to systematic neglect or exploitation.
In my study of the neglect and abuse of the elderly people in our country and other countries, I came across facts and incidents which I want to share with hon members. Every one of us should be aware and proactive in trying to alleviate this tragic and unacceptable state of the aged in our country.
``Mothers and Fathers of the Nation: the Forgotten People?’’ This was the heading of the report of the ministerial committee on the abuse, neglect and treatment of older persons dated 26 February 2001. The Minister has now said that these words will never be applicable again. I thank the Minister for that. However, this was a terrible accusation. Can anyone sleep with a clear conscience when a statement like that proves to be true? But let us not be indignant and condemn all our fellow South Africans without reservations.
I found this in an American magazine, and I wish to share it with hon members. I quote:
The abuse of the elderly is rife all over the world. It is estimated that 2 million elderly Americans residing at home are victims of maltreatment and neglect every year.
As shocking as this statistic may be, abuse of the elderly is not an isolated event, but a symptom of a larger problem. According to this report, the real problem is that of an ongoing population with diminishing resources. The Americans say elderly abuse occurs in all elements of society. It crosses social, racial, ethical, economic and religious lines - and remember, this is in America.
Maltreatment is not merely physical abuse. Abuse may also take the form of mental, sexual, emotional or financial maltreatment. In whatever form, it is nothing other than a violation of human rights. Let us look at, firstly, financial abuse. In this regard the Government is guilty. Grants are suspended without warning or explanation; when restored, arrears are not paid.
According to a report in an Eastern Cape newspaper of 19 April 2001, destitute elderly people who have waited in vain for months, some even for years, for Bisho to pay their pensions, flooded the high court on 18 April with 50 applications on one day for court orders compelling the department of Welfare to process their applications. [Interjections.] Chairperson, I need your assistance. [Interjections.]
Secondly, there is psychological abuse. There are reports of family members who, either intentionally or due to the stress caused by taking care, intimidate and humiliate the elderly. This includes belittling and insulting remarks and keeping elderly persons socially isolated.
Then there is physical abuse. This is really heart-rending, especially when one learns that physical abuse is more common where the elderly person is frail and bedridden. I have a devastating example. A nurse working in a home catering for those elderly who cannot afford expensive private retirement homes and frail-care facilities was caught on video abusing and torturing the very people she was supposed to take care of. According to sources at this home, the patient seen on the video was more than 80 years old, bedridden and defenceless. On the video, the nurse appears to be taking sadistic delight in scolding the desperate, naked woman.
In this morning’s Cape Times, there is the story of an 84-year-old lady who was raped by a neighbour’s son who broke into her shack. For two hours, he pinned her down by the throat with an iron rod, and raped her repeatedly. This lady says, according to the report, and I quote:
Other elderly people have also been raped, but they do not want to talk about it. Even my family does not wish me to speak out, but God wants us to be honest I want to tell you the truth.
There is also systemic abuse, I want to thank the hon the Minister for promising us that contractors who do not uphold the dignity of our citizens will not have their contracts renewed. Many complaints are levelled against professionals who are either inefficient or just unwilling and refuse to assist when called upon. Some officials are claimed to be rude and often arrive late without even offering an explanation.
In this morning’s Cape Times, they tell about a homeless person who sleeps under the staircase in a block of flats, much to the agony and horror of the people who called him a ``bergie’’. Later, it was discovered that the man was blind and had no pension or disability grant, as he had no ID document. When he tried to apply for a grant, he was sent away without being told how to apply for the document. I thank the Minister for agreeing to replace the Socpen system within two years. There are many similar stories which will show how systemic abuse is the order of the day.
Daar is darem ook ‘n ander kant van die prentjie. Daar is ook talle voorbeelde van bejaardes wat deur hul kinders, asook deur versorgingseenhede en ouetehuise, met groot deernis opgepas en versorg word. Natuurlik is goeie nuus mos nooit goeie nuus vir die media nie. Nee, ons hoor nie van gelukkige bejaardes en van goeie diens nie. Daar is egter ‘n deel van die gemeenskap daar buite wat nie betrokke wil raak nie en glo dat hulle nie eendag self aan die ontvangkant van mishandeling, aftakeling en verwaarlosing kan staan nie. Ek wil ‘n versugting en bede uitspreek: Sal ons nie maar almal ‘n warm gemeenskap word in wie se hart daar liefde vir ons naaste, minderbevoorregtes en veral vir ons bejaardes leef nie? Sal daar nie ‘n dag kom waar die woord ``deernis’’ in hoofletters oor ons gemeenskap geskryf staan nie? Onthou die Latynse spreuk: Ubi caritas et amor, ibi Deus est. Daar waar deernis en liefde is, daar is God. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[However, there is also another side to the story. There are also numerous examples of elderly people who are looked after and cared for with great compassion by their children, as well as by care units and old-age homes. Of course good news is never good news as far as the media is concerned. No, we do not hear about happy elderly people and a good service. There is, however, a part of the community out there who do not want to become involved; nor do they believe that they themselves may in future be subjected to ill-treatment, denigration and neglect. I want to express a sincere appeal: Could we not all become a kind-hearted community in whose hearts there is love for our neighbour, the underprivileged and especially the aged? Will the day not arrive when the word ``compassion’’ is written in capital letters in the life of our community? Remember the Latin proverb: Ubi caritas et amor, Deus ibi est. Where there is compassion and love; God will be present.]
God is where love and compassion prevail. [Applause.]
Mnu P M BASOPU (Mpuma Koloni): Mhlalingaphambili, kuyabonakala into yokuba indingene into yokusoloko ndithetha emva kwe-DP. Kambe ke andikho mdleni wakulandela ezi zinto izithethayo. Inye nje into i-DP endifundisa yona namhlanje, yinto yokuba iZiko loNcedo lezoMthetho, elithabathela amanyathelo asemthethweni iSebe phaya eMpuma Koloni, ayahlukanga apha kwi- DP. Ingathi yinto enye. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.) [Mr P M BASOPU (Eastern Cape): Chairperson, it is becoming a norm for me to speak after a presentation of the DP. However, I am not interested in commenting on what the DP is talking about. There is one thing that the DP has taught me today, and that is that the Legal Resources Centre, that is suing this Department in the Eastern Cape, is not in any way different from the DP. It seems they are one thing.]
Chairperson, firstly, allow me to tender an apology from the MEC of our province, Comrade Kondlo, who had to attend an executive committee meeting. I want to believe, therefore, that the same apology has been conveyed to the office of the Minister.
It is a well-known fact that provinces are not all the same. They differ in terms of size, needs, resources, priorities and infrastructure, but all of them have one common vision, that of facilitating the development of human capacity and the self-reliance of communities. In the final analysis that will contribute to the upliftment of vulnerable groups in society.
Coming to the quality of life improvement through poverty alleviation programmes, as per your instruction, Chairperson, the poverty programme has over the years been streamlined to ensure better targeting. This has been realised through agreements on focus groups such as women, youth, children, people with disabilities, the aged and people affected and infected by HIV/Aids.
In the Eastern Cape, a ratio allocation within the province was developed. The department has also moved away from the project-based approach to a programme-based approach with a view to making a better impact on communities and to enhance the sustainability of programmes. Many communities in our province have begun to enjoy an improved quality of life through this programme.
The poverty alleviation programme has earned welfare credibility amongst the departments and the legislature of the province of the Eastern Cape. For example, in our province the department of welfare has been tasked to co-ordinate all poverty programmes. A database is being developed, work has begun and will be completed around June.
Regarding integrated rural development and women, the Eastern Cape government, and the department of welfare in particular, has prioritised the eradication of poverty. By so doing, the department seeks to address poverty in the rural areas and informal settlements with the prime beneficiaries being women, as I have indicated above. The department also seeks to reduce dependency on grant payments and give priority to food security.
The antipoverty programme is linked to the provincial Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy in areas such as the district municipalities of Chris Hani, Alfred Nzo and Ukhahlamba, where socioeconomic and infrastructure development programmes are being implemented through the pooling of resources from different departments.
When it comes to community or home-based care for HIV/Aids sufferers, South Africa has the fastest-growing HIV/Aids epidemic which is having on enormous impact on children, the youth, women and families. Therefore, the department of welfare’s main responsibility is HIV/Aids orphans and affected families, with community-based care being a point of departure in service delivery. An integrated community-based care model is being piloted in the area called Umhlakulo in the Tsolo district and is at a very early stage of development. Regarding qualitative service delivery, the Eastern Cape is planning, together with the national department, the implementation of the findings of the commission of inquiry into abuse of the elderly. For example, an audit of paypoints, with a view to upgrading them, is being undertaken as part of the national plan. A victim empowerment programme which caters for the empowerment of women and children regarding domestic violence, rape and child abuse is being implemented with the assistance of nongovernmental organisations.
As far as access to social security is concerned, our province has been the worst affected in terms of poor administration of the social security programme. Many deserving cases could not access the grants. The cancellation of thousands of disability grants around 1996 and 1999, as was mentioned by the member who preceded me, had a negative impact on the lives of our people in the province.
The provincial government, in line with the Minister’s 10-point plan, identified social security as one of its priorities for this financial year. The following achievements can be highlighted: the finalisation of the reregistration process, which will lead to the database becoming more reliable; the question of the reinstatement of disability beneficiaries who were removed around 1996 to 1999 and the so-called class action led by the Legal Resource Centre in Grahamstown; the whole question of outsourcing grant payments - members will recall that our province is the only one that has not yet outsourced these payments; the establishment of the operations centre in Bisho to deal with enquiries; the zero tolerance of fraud and corruption - as of now about 50 officials have been arrested; the training of social security personnel on customer care; the off-line enquiry system that is about to be made available to the province to assist with enquiries at paypoints; and, finally, the installation of on-line computers in over 40 district offices, thus allowing them direct access to Socpen.
Regarding outreach programmes, the child support grant was prioritised. This has resulted in the increase of intake from 40 000 to 170 000 in the space of a year.
Finally, there are lots of challenges that are facing the province, particularly the department. These challenges are: the whole question of inadequate infrastructure, in terms of office space, appropriate paypoints and one-stop centres, especially in rural areas; the question of the clashing of identity numbers of beneficiaries with numbers in other provinces, especially our province of the Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal; and the problem of ages not corresponding with identity numbers. Members will recall that we are from the most rural area, where the majority of the people are illiterate and, as a result, do not know their age when applying for identity documents. That is the problem we are faced with in the province.
The joint planning on policy programmes … [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, to start off with, I want to say that it is good to see old colleagues from the Senate - hon colleague Moloto and hon colleague Malatsi. I am glad that the Whippery and hon colleague Jacobus agreed to the extended time for this debate, especially so that we could address the issue of abuse of the elderly as well, although I am still of the opinion that this issue warrants a debate on its own. Maybe we should do that in the near future.
I now request everybody in this Chamber to recall in their minds the image of a father and the image of a mother or, if one was privileged enough to have known a grandfather or a grandmother, the image of a grandparent. With those images in one’s mind, one must see these old people standing in one of three queues, about 150 to 200 people deep, from early in the morning, with no chair to sit on, no food, no water, no toilet facilities, no shade. and see them slowly shuffling to the front. When they reach the front late in the afternoon, they are told by an official that they are just too late and should return the following day, or that they are in the wrong queue and should come back the following day.
This is a cruel situation, but it is something that happens daily in Bloemfontein. [Interjections.] This is the trauma old people have to endure to renew …
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, could you take your seat? Yes, on what point are you rising, hon member?
Mr T B TAABE: Chairperson, could the hon Van Niekerk take a question? The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Mr Van Niekerk, are you prepared to take a question?
Mr A E VAN NIKERK: Chairperson, I will definitely take the question, but I want to finish my speech first.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Thank you, you may take your seat, hon member.
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, as I said, this is a cruel but true incident. This is the trauma I said in Bloemfontein … [Interjections.] … You must listen, young man. This is the trauma old people have to endure to renew pension registration or merely to register for pensions or for disability grants.
Mr J L MAHLANGU: Chairperson, I just want to know whether its parliamentary to call a member of this hon House ``young man?’’ [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): I do not think that is unparliamentary. [Laughter.] Continue, Mr Van Niekerk.
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, thank you very much.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, I hope you are not abusing your right to stand. Let us hear what you have to say.
Mr T B TAABE: Precisely, Chair. When I said that I wanted to ask a question of the hon member, there was a statement from hon member Versfeld to the effect that I, in her words, was ``thula sigebengu’’. I want to check if that is parliamentary, hon Chair. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Take your seat, hon member. Mrs Versfeld, did you say ``isigebengu’’, and what does that mean? [Laughter.]
Mrs A M VERSFELD: Yes, Chairperson, I did say that. [Laughter.] I do not know what it means.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Hon member, are you prepared to withdraw that?
Mrs A M VERSFELD: I do not know what it means, Chair. [Laughter.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Hon member, what do you understand it to mean? I am asking the member with the point of order. Mr Taabe, what do you understand it to mean?
Mr T B TAABE: Chair, I understand it to mean that I am a criminal, a crook. [Laughter.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Thank you. Can I ask members to give Mr Van Niekerk an opportunity to finish his speech?
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, thank you very much. After I investigated this cruel situation that happens in Bloemfontein, I found that at the registration points a single official can only handle 35 people per day. This makes the solution very easy for people who want to register, if we really have people who care at these centres. This is because the only thing that needs to happen is that that person determines early in the morning who the first 35 people are and tells the rest of the people to go home and come back the next day, and does not let them stand in the sun or wherever for the whole day. But we need people who really care. Ek het nou verwys na ‘n voorbeeld van fisieke mishandeling deur die staat, maar uit die verslag wat deur die Minister se departement opgestel is, blyk dit baie duidelik dat 90% van alle mishandelde bejaardes deur familielede mishandel word. Dan is dit mos belaglik as ons hierheen kom en na die regering of die agb Minister kyk of die vorige regime blameer.
Ons leef in ‘n siek samelewing; in ‘n uiters siek samelewing wat hulp soek. Die Minister het opdrag gegee dat ‘n verslag geskryf word na aanleiding van ‘n program wat verlede jaar op Carte Blanche-gebeeldsaai is oor die gruweldade wat teenoor bejaardes gepleeg word.
Ons staan vandag met twee gruwelverslae in die hand. Ek gaan met ‘n knop in my keel uit dié verslae aanhaal. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[I have just referred to an example of physical abuse by the state, but from the report drafted by the Minister’s department it is very evident that of all the elderly abused, 90% are abused by family members. Surely then it is ridiculous to come here and glare at the Minister or the Government, or to blame the previous regime. We are living in a sick society; in an extremely sick society that is looking for help. The Minister ordered a report to be written arising from the Carte Blanche programme that was televised last year about the atrocities committed against elderly people.
Today we stand here with two reports on atrocities in our hands. I am going to quote from these reports with a lump in my throat.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Yes, hon member?
Ms B N DLULANE: Chairperson, there is no interpretation. We cannot hear what he is saying.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Could the Table staff check if there is interpretation? In the meantime, Mr Van Niekerk, go on. Thereafter, we can get the translated version from Hansard.
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, this is so important to me that I will do it in English from here on.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Yes, continue, hon member. You have one and a half minutes. I have given you an extra one and a half minutes because of the interruptions.
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, thank you. In the Free State a case was reported of the family of an 83-year-old man who moved into his RDP house and kept him locked in a back room. A month later he was admitted to the Pelonomi Hospital, where he died. In Botshabelo a resident was seriously manhandled in an old age home. He complained that the manager had broken his artificial leg when he dragged him into his office to assault him.
In KwaZulu-Natal there were reports of armed hold-ups at pension points and failure by the police to respond. In the Eastern Cape, 20 cases of abuse of the elderly were reported, including assault, the theft of pensions, eviction by children, rape and robbery. In the Northern Cape family violence dominated the hearings. I could carry on like this, but the question is: What now? What is expected of us and what is expected of the hon the Minister?
We passed a motion earlier in this House, and I conclude by congratulating the Minister on the reports. But we need feedback now. The Chairperson has often said in this House that we are not here just to pass legislation, that we have an oversight role as well. This issue of abuse of the elderly is a fine opportunity for us to go out there and really look into it.
Aids is a friendly disease because people have the option of whether they want to get it or not, but these people have no option at all when it comes to getting old and being abused. Age is something one gets for spending one’s life in service to one’s children and others, and one deserves to get old and die in dignity. [Applause.]
Mr B WILLEM: Chairperson, hon Minister, esteemed special delegates, MECs from all the provinces and hon members, it is indeed a very great pleasure to participate in this debate today. I am also very glad to note that I am not the only person who is going to address this House today from a wheelchair. It is a great moment for me, really.
A famous British politician once said, `` A week is a long time in politics.’’ In the face of the challenges which confronted us when we swept away the old order in 1994 and ventured into the cobwebbed corridors of power bequeathed to us by the apartheid order, the past seven years have been short indeed.
They have been short if one examines this period in relation to the Herculean efforts that we have to muster to dismantle a system nurtured for over three decades.
I suppose that from this point of view our understanding of our power and its possibilities and limits imposes a strong sense of reality. Our determination and commitment as the ANC to fight for the total emancipation of the elderly, women, children and the disabled politically, socially, economically and legally, cannot be doubted. We need to restore the dignity and integrity of the vulnerable.
We are still committed to the promotion and protection of the rights of the elderly, women, children and the disabled. We acknowledge our limitations and shortfalls in accelerating the democratic process of empowering the elderly, the youth, women, children and the disabled.
The ANC is still committed to its agenda of social transformation that is embodied in the principles of social justice and the Bill of Rights contained in the Constitution. We are endeavouring to create a better life for all - the poor, the vulnerable and excluded people in our society.
When millions of our people - the elderly, women, the youth and the disabled - stood in long queues on that historic day, 2 June 1999, to vote for the ANC, they declared that South Africa would never be the same again, after 27 April 1994. As the sun rises and sets, they continue to hope for a better future.
To many we have a new humanity in this country. For decades, in particular for the vulnerable groups, the ANC has always been at the forefront of the fight to protect the most vulnerable in our country. During the struggle for liberation, the enemy was clear; it was the racist apartheid government and all the atrocities that they committed against our people. Almost seven years down the line we still cannot rest in our quest to ensure that the most vulnerable are protected against abuse, neglect and corruption. These days the enemy is not only those people whose past sins we have forgiven, but also those who have internalised the violent apartheid mentality regardless of race, colour or creed.
I would like to congratulate the Minister on his ground-breaking initiatives in establishing an independent committee to investigate the issue of abuse of the elderly. It is definitely an area which needs to be addressed comprehensively. Every elderly person has the right to be protected from abuse and neglect.
The ministerial committee report captured, in great detail and across all provinces, the extent to which the abuse of the elderly has permeated every corner of our country. Evidence gathered revealed that older people are being abused in institutions both private and Government-run, in their homes, at pensions checkpoints, and virtually everywhere else.
The recommendations made by the ministerial committee concern an area which we, as public servants, need to take careful note of to ensure that the tireless efforts made by these dedicated people do not become a purely academic exercise.
To this end our provincial and national budgets need to include some of the recommendations in the report on abuse of the elderly. One of the first things we need to do is to ensure that the legislative process is set in motion so that we can have a comprehensive new piece of legislation, changing the status of older persons.
The provinces, with the assistance of local government, nongovernmental organisations and other stakeholders, must begin to strategise around funding, as per the ministerial committee recommendations, for the establishment of an ombudsman system, for short-term and medium-term improvements to the social assistance package, for an improvement in funding assistance for community-based programmes, particularly the poverty alleviation funding, for an audit of Government subsidised residential institutions and for an investigation into the discounting of low-interest loans, amongst other things.
It is clear the we as the ANC need to be more vigilant. Very often we take it for granted that our policies are geared towards alleviating poverty and relieving our elderly of their deprived, subsistence-type existence. But at times they are being undermined by those whom we entrusted with the implementation process.
This report is a wake-up call to ensure that the appropriate checks and balances, through comprehensive norms and standards, and a regulated reporting procedure, are set up. As the ANC we cannot afford to rest on our laurels.
The elderly are not the only vulnerable group in our country. It is unfortunate, but our women, children and disabled also form part of those who continue, despite our progressive legislation protecting their fundamental human rights, to suffer at the hands of others. Abusive behaviour targeted at the elderly is duplicated in the case of women, children and the disabled.
In all of those categories that I have just mentioned, we also have to include another, rapidly growing, category, and that is those who are infected and affected by HIV/Aids. Children in particular are being severely hit by this pandemic. All indications are that HIV/Aids is increasing poverty for children, despite the implementation of our programmes to assist communities in poverty alleviation.
We have an obligation as a Government to ensure that our programmes to bring relief are implementable, especially in view of the Grootboom case. Here the state’s budget allocation and delivery obligations were tested. The court indicated that the state has, at minimum, a duty to take reasonable legislative and other measures within its available resources to achieve the progressive realisation of socioeconomic rights.
It also emphasised that, in testing whether the state is meeting its obligations, special attention must be given to whether the interests of the most destitute, particularly children without parental care, are reflected in budget allocations and programmes, and whether implementation is progressing and resources are being used efficiently.
It is our role in the NCOP, when the national Government or provincial governments, for all the right reasons, embark upon strategies to improve the lives of our vulnerable, to ensure that these strategies are implemented and monitored, because we have not been vigilant in ensuring that our progressive policies and budget allocations go where they are intended to go. We have found that the National Strategic Framework for Children Infected and Affected by HIV/Aids, home and community-based care and support, voluntary counselling and testing and life skills programmes were not effectively implemented.
These are all good, transformative, life-improving programmes, but seriously in danger of not being worth the paper they are written on. In our interaction with both the Department of Social Development and the Department of Health, we pointed out our misgivings at the slow progress being made with the home-based care programme.
As members of the ANC in the NCOP, we have an obligation to ensure that we bring about delivery to our people in need. The Department of Social Development is a key area in which we can directly effect positive changes in the lives of our people. Let us roll up our sleeves and assist the department in implementing our progressive policies. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, I can only hope there will be more special days for you in the near future.
Mr B S NKOSI (Gauteng): Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members and colleagues, I rise for the Gauteng legislature to support the Vote on Social Development.
We believe that, as a province, we have created a socioeconomic and political milieu conducive to eradicating and undoing poverty forever. In this regard we have made significant progress in delivering and ensuring that there are poverty alleviation projects throughout the province, which are epitomised by flagship programmes like those in Bekkersdal.
Our poverty alleviation programmes continue to make an impact in communities in which they are located, particularly in those areas where our focused target is those that are economically depressed. We believe, against this background, that our achievements are adequate to indicate a willingness on our side to address the situation of poverty in our province.
However, we have agreed that we need a thorough process to assess and evaluate these projects to check whether indeed they are making the necessary impact. In this process we believe that we will be able to emphasise that there is a need for financial and managerial capacitation of these projects, and to determine whether there are any economic benefits that ensue to immediate communities through these projects.
The provincial legislature and the Government are committed to ensuring that in looking at this again, we should come up with a new strategy for economic development and poverty alleviation in particular. The aim of this strategy should be to move away from piecemeal and isolated relief programmes and projects, towards an integrated, multifaceted and intersectoral approach.
Only in this way, we believe, will we be able to make sure that poverty is attacked from all sides. We also believe that such an approach will lead to economic renewal, particularly in localities where there has been economic depression. It will also lead to the upgrading of our rural areas, and will integrate and include women in mainstream economic activities. The plight of children orphaned through, and effected by, the Aids epidemic continues to affect local communities, and, as I have already indicated, particularly in those areas where poverty is most prevalent. The provincial government in Gauteng has developed a multidisciplinary approach and holistic endeavour to cater for, and facilitate processes towards catering for, Aids orphans.
Families in and around Gauteng are being encouraged to undertake foster parenting as a social commitment. This, we believe, will alleviate the burden on, and assist the department in moving away from, institutionalised foster care. Institutionalised foster care is the only method of intervention by the Government at the moment. We believe communities need to be encouraged to take up voluntary foster care with the assistance and facilitation of the Government and the greater involvement of civil society.
Only through this will our communities be able to take care of those people that face death. However, this must be located within a wider and more holistic approach to poverty alleviation and dealing with the Aids epidemic. The department will be in a position to leverage community- orientated programmes in this regard. In line with this, the plight of women in the province continues to receive priority attention from the department. Programmes and projects aimed at the protection, security and development of women as a vulnerable sector are under way. A much more dynamic interaction with women groupings in previously disadvantaged communities is under way. We, however, do not see that the department alone, as sole role-player in this regard, will make an impact. Therefore the integrated approach that we call for includes health, education and safety and security, because the problems that are faced by women range from issues of security, abuse, lack of education, lack of access to educational opportunities and exclusion from socioeconomic activities.
As far as social security is concerned, the province has prioritised this as reflected in our budget, in which there is an 81% bias towards the provision of social security from the total budget. The number of beneficiaries has increased over the years, and in particular we are seeing an accelerating increase in the demand for the child support grant. We have so far surpassed our target for 2003, which is 90% beneficiaries by that year. We now stand at 117 000 beneficiaries or more. The turnaround period for the processing of all forms of grants now stands on an average of three months, and we are striving towards reducing this to one month. We hope that with the completion of the reregistration process and the introduction of an electronic register, we will be able to do away with huge volumes of paper that we deal with on a monthly basis, as this ushers in the possibility of reducing fraud and other forms of criminal activities.
In the province we are extending facilities to those areas that are depressed and that never had these facilities before. We are also making sure that these facilities are user-friendly and that people who receive grants are not subjected to unacceptable behaviour by officials. A programme to extend these facilities to rural areas in particular is under way.
We are dealing seriously with the issues of long queues, and this has resulted in payments being made before 13:00 on each and every payday. There are exceptions, and we are dealing with this very seriously. However, the provision of grants is not the only context in which we as the department interact with vulnerable groups. We work with them on a continual basis to ensure that we present a humane face to people who are beneficiaries and particularly clients of our department.
Our departmental officials are trained and guided on the basis of the Batho Pele processes to treat the elderly, and other beneficiaries, as humanely as they possibly can. Transgressions of this principle are dealt with inside the department and in a manner that ensures that the confidence of our beneficiaries is restored throughout. However, one should also point out that there are still problems in the manner in which the elderly are treated in some instances. We are seeing an improvement in this regard, which is indicative of our attitude and our willingness to deal with this matter.
Our service provider, Allpay, has completed a process of introducing this system of payment to all our beneficiaries. With a 99% success record at the moment, and a negligible number of problems that have resulted since implementation, the department has fined Allpay to an amount of about R250 000 for the negligence that resulted because of the manner in which they handle some processes at the paypoints.
We believe that as a department, the Gauteng department of social services is beginning to make a turnaround, because the proportion of resources allocated delivery as compared to staff stands at 20:80. Our staffing priorities remain very serious and urgent, but we believe that with a 20% staff complement delivering 80% of the resources to our clients, we are turning the situation around.
The introduction of the business implementation strategy, which is aimed at leveraging the departmental capacity to deal with its work, is one of the strategies we have put in place, particularly since 1999, when we reworked and reprioritised our programmes. [Applause.]
Mev J WITBOOI: Mnr die Voorsitter, agb Minister en agb lede, in sy begrotingsrede op 3 April hierdie jaar, het die Minister genoem dat 80% van die begroting van die boekjare 1998-1999, 1999-2000 en 2000-2001 bestee is aan projekte vir armoede verligting.
Sowat 10% van die begroting het spesifiek gegaan vir gemeenskapsprojekte en 10% vir kapasiteitsbou om toe te sien dat die geld geoormerk vir dié projekte uitkom by die mense wat dit die nodigste het. Ons almal ondersteun die tweeledige fokus van projekte wat uit inkomste gegenereer is aan die een kant en veiligheidsnetwerke aan die ander kant wat beoog word met die Minister se inisiatief vir kapasiteitsbou. Tog is daar ‘n paar aspekte wat baie negatief inwerk op die hoofdoelwit van dié departement.
‘n Vlaag sinnelose moorde teister ons land. Dié moorde is gerig teen mense wat bydra tot ons land se ekonomie wat, soos dit wetsgehoorsame burgers betaam, bydra tot die staatsinkomste in ons land. Of hulle boere op plase, taxi-bestuurders, pendelaars op treine, eienaars van sakeondernemings, of enige ander werkers is, hulle word vermoor. Afgesien van die ontwrigting in die families wat daarmee gepaard gaan, het dit ‘n verlammende uitwerking op ons ekonomie en maatskaplike dienste.
Die negatiewe uitwerking van HIV/Vigs op ons ekonomie, kan nie oorbeklemtoon word nie. Statistiek oor die bevolking van Suid-Afrika word in September vanjaar bekend gemaak. Afhangende van die inligting in dié register sal die onderskeie departemente weer moet sit en begrotings opstel. Daar sal weer aksieplanne opgestel en gepoog moet word om volhoubare projekte te inisieer, maar omdat HIV/Vigs nie ‘n aanmeldbare siekte is nie, sal ons nie konkrete statistieke hê om die vermurwende uitwerking wat dié dodelik pandemie op ons ekonomie het, te bepaal nie.
Ons sal dit nie kan ontglip nie, ons sal dit voel in elke departement - onderwys, maatskaplike ontwikkeling, gesondheid, veiligheid en sekuriteit, noem maar op. Ons gemeenskappe sal dit voel, ons huishoudings sal dit voel. Die Minister het tereg in die begrotingsdebat gesê die grootste enkele vraagstuk vir die departement van maatskaplike ontwikkeling is die finansiële implikasies van die versorging van Vigs-weeskinders.
Ek wil my aansluit by die voorsitter van die gekose komitee oor maatskaplike ontwikkeling wat in haar debat melding gemaak het van baie departemente se onvermoë om die geld tot hul beskikking aan die verligting van armoede te bestee. Burgerlike ongedurigheid steek oral kop uit en ek kan vandag hier baie voorbeelde noem, maar wat is die oorsaak? Ons mense daar buite is van mening dat die beleidmakers van ons land onsensitief is teenoor hul behoeftes. Dié siening word versterk deur berigte oor korrupsie van oral.
Brandarm mense kan hul nie daarmee versoen dat ander mense hul verryk ten koste van hul kinders vir wie daar nie eens ‘n stukkie brood op tafel is nie. Die President van hierdie land het by meer as een geleentheid gesê die mense het gepraat. Dit is só, maar die mense het nog nie opgehou praat nie. Hulle praat nou éérs, ons moet net luister na wat hulle sê. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mrs J WITBOOI: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, in his budget speech on 3 April this year, the Minister mentioned that 80% of the budget for the financial years 1998-99, 1999-2000 and 2000-01 was spent on projects for poverty alleviation. Approximately 10% of the budget was used specifically for community projects and 10% for capacity-building to see to it that the money earmarked for these projects reached the people who need it the most.
We all support the dual focus of projects generated from revenue on the one hand, and safety networks on the other, which are envisaged with the Minister’s initiative for capacity-building. However, there are a few aspects which impact very negatively on the primary objective of this department. A wave of senseless murders is ravaging our country. These murders are aimed at people who contribute to our country’s economy; who, as befits law- abiding citizens, contribute to state revenue in our country. Whether they are farmers on farms, taxi drivers, passengers on trains, owners of businesses, or any other workers, they are being murdered. Apart from the disruption in the families associated with this, it has a paralysing effect on our economy and social services.
The negative effect of HIV/Aids on our economy cannot be overemphasised. Statistics on the population of South Africa will be made known in September this year. Depending on the information in this register, the various departments will have to sit and draft budgets once again. Action plans will have to be drafted and attempts made to initiate sustainable projects, but because HIV/Aids is not a notifiable illness, we will not have concrete statistics in order to determine the debilitating effect of this deadly pandemic on our economy.
We will not be able to evade it, we will feel it in every department - education, social development, health, safety and security, one can name them all. Our communities will feel it, our households will feel it. The Minister rightly said in the budget debate that the single biggest issue for the Department of Social Development is the financial implication of caring for Aids orphans.
I want to associate myself with the chairperson of the select committee on social development, who mentioned in her debate many departments’ inability to spend the money at their disposal on the alleviation of poverty. Civil restlessness is rearing its head everywhere and I could name many examples here today, but what is the cause? Our people out there are of the opinion that the policy-makers of our country are insensitive to their needs. This view is strengthened by reports of corruption from all over.
Destitute people cannot reconcile themselves to the fact that other people are enriching themselves at the expense of their children, for whom there is not even a piece of bread on the table. The President of this country has said on more than one occasion that the people have spoken. This is true, but the people have not yet stopped speaking. They are really speaking now, and we must listen to what they are saying. [Applause.]]
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, allow me to tell the hon Mr van Niekerk that our old people have been standing in queues for years. He was in this Chamber, but he never thought of going to those payout points to check on our people. Our people were collapsing in those queues and he never went there. [Interjections.] It is only with us now, with our Government, that his eyes have been opened. He was blind, but now he sees. [Laughter.]
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, will the hon member take a question?
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: How can I take a question when I have hardly spoken? [Laughter.] No. [Interjections.]
Ek is nie bang nie. [I am not afraid.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Would the hon member continue?
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, we have come a long way since the first time we stepped into these hallowed halls of Parliament. Sometimes we forget just how far we have come. From time to time, we need to remind ourselves - that includes Mr Van Niekerk - of what we, as the ANC Government, have achieved, especially when weighed up against what we had to overcome.
If we look at social development as an example, then we need look no further than the racist social delivery system, which showed a clear bias towards urban-based service, discriminated along racial lines and implemented services on an ad hoc basis.
Apartheid effectively gave us 14 diverse welfare departments, for the different population groups and homelands that constituted the old South Africa. Each of these departments had its own peculiar legislative and regulatory framework which not only sought to keep our people poor, but also deepened the inequities.
Even within the social service delivery system, we find that it was organised along specialist lines and fragmented between a number of fields and services. The task of overcoming all these obstacles and meeting the growing expectations of all our people was indeed a mammoth one. It is a task - and the Minister can correct me if I am wrong - that needs constant reviews and upgrades, especially with the lack of the trained personnel to address needs, particularly in the rural provinces. It was in rural areas where social development programmes were not considered to be critical social investment priorities. As a result, they were severely underresourced, if not totally neglected.
When we first proposed drastic changes to the status quo, we identified these problems through the Reconstruction and Development Programme. What we as Government have done is to effectively turn this racist policy on its head, so that every social development endeavour now has, as its priority, the needs of the vulnerable, especially those who reside in rural areas.
With this as our basis, we have tried to systematically alleviate the plight of the poor. To date, the progress made by the department, with its new mandates, has not been as problem-free as we as political representatives would have liked.
One of the most serious setbacks is the fact that we have a global capacity problem.
The problem is multifaceted, since it affects the officials who have to implement the deliverables, the recipients who need to apply for the relief, provinces that are struggling to set up infrastructure and political representatives who need to assist in the identification of these needs. Poor financial planning hampers the effective utilisation of the limited financial resources available to fulfil the needs.
Mnr van Niekerk moet tog stilbly. [Mr Van Niekerk should keep quiet.]
The emphasis on transformation was apparent in the request for special poverty alleviation funds, which will substantially address the needs of those worst struck by poverty. The intention is that any person in an impoverished community should be able to access the money to improve their lives. Even this project relies upon sound administration.
The department has been bedevilled by incapacity problems despite developing a new welfare payment and information system geared towards improving the system of grant payouts.
If we look at the child support grant, this attempt at redressing the past aims to ensure that every child up to seven years old who needs money is given an amount of R100. Previously, only the Coloured, White and Indian children benefited from the maintenance grant, and the amounts varied disproportionately depending on the colour of one’s skin.
Whilst the department acknowledges that the amount in no way served to feed a family for a month, it represented the first step in the direction of a comprehensive social security system. As the ANC, we believe that the time has now come to review the entire social security system.
We are not satisfied with the piecemeal attempts to address the past inequities. We acknowledge that during our discussions with our alliance partners it became apparent that we need to be moving in the direction of a social security package that takes on board the holistic needs of the household. Even as a select committee in the NCOP, we are exploring local and international models which seek to end the vicious circle of poverty.
What we are trying to say is that we are constantly reviewing and upgrading our transformation policies. We remain steadfast in the belief that through our determined efforts, we will eventually eradicate poverty. With the help of the Minister of Social Development to guide us, we are becoming more vigilant of the quality of service which we deliver to our people.
We sought to improve the delivery system by devolving some of the distribution policies to the provinces. However, in his provincial visits the Minister found that grant recipients were still standing in queues waiting for services to be delivered often for hours on end, and with uninterested staff. Every time such a report comes to us as public representatives, we take up the issue with the national or provincial department. The reaction from the management structures is usually very good. What we need to ensure is that those administrators who interface directly with the public are trained properly towards a more service- orientated mode.
The Minister and the DG have assured us that this training is ongoing. It is comforting to note that we have a decisive Minister when there are clear violations of our transformation policy. A recent case in point was the incident at the Noupoort Christian Care Centre, which the Minister did mention, where a 16-year old student, Logan Klingenberg, died and two instructors were arrested on a charge of murder.
The Minister ordered an immediate investigation into the matter when he learnt of the death and the circumstances surrounding it. It was found that there was a military-type discipline facility called the Midlandia disciplinary barracks used by the Christian care centre to discipline children who had committed multiple or serious offences. Patients were required to wear heavy boots and old military uniforms for the duration of the punishment period. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr D M MALATSI (Western Cape): Chairperson, I follow on the hon member Lubidla, and may I also take this opportunity to greet the Minister and all hon members of the House, to thank you for giving me this opportunity of participating in this debate.
It has always been said that money is the root of all evil, but when it comes to social development, those that are on the receiving end will always differ with the statement, because without money there is nothing they can do, and the social grant they get is the only source of sustenance they need.
This debate is always one which is important to us, because it makes us aware of the social needs of the people of South Africa, as well as the imbalances which exist in our communities. I wish to concur with the last speaker and say that, yes, of course, the past had all those things which she mentioned. We had 14 departments for social services in this country. We all know and accept that, but with this Ministry of Social Development we are doing our best to make a difference.
In this respect, we should all be encouraging the Minister and congratulating him on having rather changed the Cinderella perception that the people of this country had of the department of social services, by bringing to light some of the issues, for instance the report on the abuse of the elderly, as well as the gambling habits that elderly people are developing and feeding with the money that they receive at the end of the month. I think we need to be able to say that the elderly people do not belong in gambling dens, but, of course, the advertisements produced by the gambling houses are so enticing that one wants to be a millionaire on a Saturday and thus goes out to gamble.
That is something that we must discourage, and the Minister has placed that not only on the South African platform, but also on the international one, because I remember seeing something about it on CNN at one o’clock in the morning. We have to congratulate the Minister on that.
As the department of social services in the Western Cape, we received an amount of R2,342 624 billion for 2001-02, and this money actually represents an increase of only 3,03% or R68 million as transfer payments. This is the money that we will be transferring to the various NGOs and with which we will be paying social grants to all other service providers in the welfare and NGO sector. I am able to say that these sectors of social grants, welfare and NGOs consume by far the largest amount of our budget, which is 88,96%. We have to be realistic about that, and it leaves us with 11,04%, which is spent on other services in the department.
In case of the aged, I would like to emphasise to the Minister the fact that we should be very aware of the new phenomena we are dealing with. In the past, we cared for our aged people. We all know that, in the black communities and others, we cared for our own aged people. A large sector of our community preferred to have our elders with us in the family. We looked after them. In some instances this has changed. Today our elderly are not necessarily part of the family any more. We may claim that we do not want our elderly people to go to old age homes, but we leave them in shacks. Is that taking care of them? It is not. They need to be taken care of in community care centres where somebody will come and assist them in the various ways they need assistance.
Many elderly persons, as we have heard from the various speakers, are subject to abuse, and, therefore, to claim that in our culture we do not send our elderly people to old age homes is no longer a point in question, because we say so when we actually do not take care of them in the very same houses that we say we are going to take care of them. We neglect them in the same shacks and hide behind the excuse of ``in our culture’’.
I think that we should get away from that and look at a way of saying that we are going to put all aged people, irrespective of colour, creed or race, in community care centres where we, as a state and a social provider, will be able to give them assistance as they need it.
One finds elderly people with long nails. Just because they have arthritis, they cannot cut their own nails. But if one takes them to these centres, maybe somebody there will be able to cut their nails for them, because we do not have time to do that. So we need to be aware of such things.
We need to create more places where these aged can get together, have a meal and be cared for. In the Western Cape, we have only 18 such community care centres, on which the department is spending R3,33 million per annum. We need to encourage the development of more such centres. We also need to provide methods of bringing our aged into these centres and providing certain activities for them to keep themselves occupied.
I visited one such centre in the Mossel Bay area, and the elderly people were asking me, ``What is the use of having such a centre?’’ They said they could not go to there because there was no transport. If they had to get there, somebody would have to take a wheelbarrow to take them there.
I have spoken to Allpay, the service provider in the Western Cape, and have asked them what their social responsibility is. Allpay asked me what I wanted, and I said I needed wheelchairs for some of these elderly people to be taken to these areas, and they promised to buy 21 wheelchairs which we will be able to distribute in the province.
Allpay has already contributed 600 chairs, which I gave to the community centre in Khayelisha, where elderly people receive their pensions, so that they could have something to sit on. They have also provided 2 100 chairs, which we will distribute across the province. Some will go to the Nyanga multi-purpose centre, with which we are involved at the moment.
I believe we experienced the suspension of the state maintenance grant - Mrs Lubidla has just said so - at the end of March this year. We should all accept the fact that the suspension has affected the Western Cape more than it has any other province, because this facility was used to a greater extent in the Western Cape.
However, we also wish to thank the national department for having made R7,8 million available for our safety net, which we are using to try to accommodate the people who have become the victims of the phasing out of the state maintenance grant, and to bring about empowerment and capacitation projects in which they will participate.
I have met with the angry mothers who confronted me early in April this year and asked that their maintenance grant be reinstated, or rather, that the child support grant be increased from R110 to R250 with the maximum age of the beneficiary being increased to 17. They also sought an appointment with the Minister and I have forwarded that information to the Minister’s department so that he can look into the matter. That was because the majority of the people who were aggrieved by the phasing out of the state maintenance grant were in the Western Cape.
As I have already said, the state maintenance grant takes up R100 million of our budget in the Western Cape. In an area like Beaufort West, for instance, this grant comprised 10% to 15% of the monthly GDP of that particular town. Now that the state maintenance grant has been taken out, we have to accept the fact that some people will get angry. However, this is a reality we have to live with and we should come up with alternative projects in which the people will participate.
We have provided for a social safety net, as I have already stated, that purports to provide help for those mothers who have been affected by the suspension of the state maintenance grant. More than 7 500 mothers have already registered for training and participation in projects which will, hopefully, put them in a position to improve their situation. Approximately R11 million has been allocated to 40 projects, most of which are in the rural areas where the problem is most severe. We further expect to receive more applications in this regard. We will be calling for more applications at the end of June.
We are, nevertheless, enthusiastic with regard to the child support grant. As the hon chairperson of the portfolio committee has said, we have taken the opportunities given us to canvass and market the child support grant. We hope, therefore, that in the event of registering more beneficiaries, we will be able to revisit the target laid down by the national Department of Social Development. We have far exceeded the target number we were given for the previous financial year and we will also exceed the targeted amount, particularly in previously disadvantaged areas such as Khayelitsha, where we have appointed temporary staff to help market the child support grant.
There are areas in the Western Cape where we have a problem. Many people tend to think that the Western Cape is the Cape Peninsula, and I have just discovered that it is not, it is more than that. If one goes to the north one finds oneself in the Swartland. I was in an area called Koringberg last week, in the Swartland, and I found young girls with children. I asked them if they received the child support grant, but they did not know what the child support grant is. The challenge we are facing is marketing the products that this department is giving to the people to more areas outside the Cape Province.
We are convinced that our efforts with respect to the provision of the social safety net will be well received, and that the money will be well spent and will create opportunities for those involved, and new dreams and a prosperous future for those mothers and their children.
For the youth, we have a few projects that we are involved in in this province. We have the Horizon Youth Care Centre, a secure care facility for the youth in conflict with the law, which was established for 60 children under 18. However, it has had to rapidly increase its intake to 160 children, because of the large number of children in prison. The facility was built at a cost of R14 million … [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs and colleagues, the scarcity of funds and resources will always be a complaint that we will continually hear in this House. [Interjections.] Of course it comes from all sides, including that notorious centre in Noupoort, which seems to have vast sums of money that it can afford to square up against the Ministry to defend a scandalous behaviour that involves murder. I am wondering whether this centre will not be one of those that will complain of not having funds.
The same can be said about these legal minds who are always readily available to square up against departments. I am wondering whether these people do understand what is called corporate responsibility. Do they have anything to contribute to society? The Government has called upon everybody, the private sector and any member of the community, to join it in a partnership so as to address the imbalances in our society. However, it seems they only come forward when there are some mishaps in government departments. They square up to departments and to court in support of the people. Have they ever had any conference, any seminar or any information- sharing session with these people, I am wondering? They always complain of the scarcity of resources.
The elder statesman, the wise man from the Eastern Cape, the hon Mr Basopu, told a delicate story of a prickly pear. As we know, a prickly pear is a very delicious fruit indeed, but handling it is not child’s play. Everybody will shun that fruit. I am not surprised, then, that at this stage of the report on the abuse of the elderly, the hon member Van Niekerk is now demanding, since this prickly pear has been prepared and is now on the table, that it must be sliced and that I give it to the people. Where was this hon member when this prickly pear had to be picked from the tree, with thorns and everything? The hon Witbooi has just quoted the President correctly and said that the people have spoken. The majority of the people have spoken. Is the hon member going in the same direction as these people? Is she? Why does she quote the President if she is going in the opposite direction?
I would like to report the following on behalf of my province. The department of social services, population and development was allocated a budget of about R1,5 billion for the 2001-02 financial year. This represents an increase of about R235 million. The major portion of the additional funding received allows for the increased intake of child support grant recipients and provides sufficient funds for old age grants.
The mission of the department is to promote integrated developmental social services for the citizens of Mpumalanga. To this end, and in line with the national and provincial priorities, efforts over the coming year are geared towards improving administrative efficiency and financial management, strengthening social security control systems, improving conditions at pension paypoints, transforming services rendered by nonprofit organisations, implementing home-based care for people affected or infected by HIV/Aids and also improving the delivery of poverty alleviation programmes.
The 2001-02 departmental operational plan reflects a wide range of strategies and actions to achieve key outputs and outcomes, including the payment of grants to 140 000 older persons and the targeting of 105 000 children from poor households to receive the child support grants.
Rural poverty and HIV/Aids remain two of the key challenges facing our province. While it is important to note that the human development index for Mpumalanga is higher than the average for South Africa, at 0,694, the differences between the groups of people or geographical areas hold the danger of masking the level of poverty and inequality.
The levels of unemployment in places such as Moutse at 62%, Eerstehoek at 61% and Moretele at 52% clearly illustrate the challenges facing us as a province. We have embraced the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy announced by the President to fight rural poverty.
A poverty summit convened by the department of social services and held on 2 and 3 March this year built on existing strategies to fight poverty. The department is committed to bringing short-term relief by allocating poverty alleviation funds to initiatives to address poverty in the identified poverty pockets.
The HIV/Aids pandemic continues to cause tremendous pain and hardship, but has also unleashed a high level of creativity. We are proud of our partnership with the Masoyi home-based care project, with its innovative approach to the identification, care and support of those afflicted by this dreaded disease. The strength of this approach lies in the active participation of community members as care supporters. With the launch of Operation Nakekela, this department is able to identify children in communities in need of assistance from Government without waiting on such cases to be reported.
With an antenatal HIV prevalence of 29,6% and an estimated 352 000 people infected in Mpumalanga, an integrated plan was put in place involving key departments and other stakeholders to fight the HIV/Aids scourge. The province has prioritised high prevalence areas in Tonga, Piet Retief, Mmametlhake, Matibidi, KwaMhlanga and Eerstehoek as sites for integrated community home-based care and support programmes.
The department of social services will be using a conditional grant of R1,5 million allocated by the Department of Social Development to advance the objectives of the programme.
In conclusion, I must report that my province is very delighted to be participating in this debate, especially because our Minister is always available wherever and whenever he is needed. [Applause.]
Nksz N D NTWANAMBI: Mhlalingaphambili, Mphathiswa obekekileyo, esiXhoseni kukho iqhalo elithi: Induku entle igawulwa ezizweni. Ndiyabona ukuba le nduku elithe iphondo lethu laza kuhlanganisa ngayo apha, igawulwe ezizweni. [Kwahlekwa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)
[Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Chairperson, Hon Minister, in Xhosa there is a proverb that says: A fine stick is obtained in strange places. I can see that the stick that the province brought with to evade blows was obtained from such strange places. [Laughter.]] The continued suffering and poverty of the majority of people in the Western Cape is a serious indictment against this ``dom alliance’’. The inability of this provincial government to deal with the problems of poverty and unemployment experienced by African and coloured people is reflected in the fact that they have appointed three different MECs for social welfare since the departure of the ANC one. All three of them have, so far, shown an utter lack of political will to uplift the poor in this province because all of them tried to retain the privileges of the past.
One does not have to look further than former MEC De Jager, who spent thousands of rands on a white old age home in which his wife was involved, while black old age homes suffered a severe lack of funding, to see where the real priorities of the ``dom alliance’’ government lie. In fact, I would go so far as to say that more was done for the poor in this province under the ANC MEC, Ebrahim Rasool, than has been done under the three DA MECs combined. [Interjections.] The hon members must just listen and they will know.
Women and pensioners in particular have been at the receiving end of this uncaring governing alliance. Coloured women, in particular, have been misled into believing that African women pose a threat to their enjoyment of certain privileges such as state maintenance grants. In the worst form of racist campaigning, the alliance of New NP and DP told coloured women that the state maintenance grants had been taken away from them to be given to African women. Scandal!
An HON MEMBER: What are you talking about?
Ms N D NTWANAMBI: You know what.
They deliberately omitted to explain exactly what the MEC, Mr Malatsi, also failed to tell those young women in the Swartland. They all failed to explain to coloured women that the phasing out of maintenance grants was done to replace them with child support grants, which were to be distributed more equally to all those who had previously been denied this kind of assistance. Instead, they made it a racial issue, through which they hoped to divide the women of this province. [Interjections.]
Furthermore, this provincial government has done nothing to explain the new child support grant to women. This has left many women whose livelihood …
Mrs A M VERSFELD: Chairperson, on a point of order: The member is deliberately misleading the House.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! That is not a point of order. Please continue, hon member.
Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Maybe if you had spoken in Setswana, she should have understood better.
Furthermore, this provincial government still fails to explain to all women of this province that this has to be done. It is not their project. This has left many women whose livelihood depended on the previous maintenance grants without any means of income because they did not know their rights in terms of the new system. [Interjections.]
It was left to the ANC to lead a campaign to inform women about their rights under the new system of child support.
During two such campaigns at Brown’s Farm and Bredasdorp, the ANC was able to enlist about 1 700 women who were entitled to child support grants but did not know they qualified. Without this campaign these women would not have been able to get their money. [Interjections.] I say ``Do that, Mr Malatsi!’’
When the state maintenance grants were phased out, many women were left to fend for themselves. The ANC saw this and launched two flagship projects to assist these women. With the participation of women it was able to launch an agricultural farming project in Beaufort West, but the lack of interest shown by the New NP MEC for agriculture resulted in the project struggling. [Interjections.]
Ebrahim Rasool involved women in establishing a giftwrapping project in Crossroads.
An HON MEMBER: Why did the people not vote for you?
Ms N D NTWANAMBI: It is because you have imported only white people to come and settle in the Western Cape. [Interjections.] Those women clubbed their money together to establish this project, and it is still very successful. Many of them are now earning more than R700 a month owing to the success of this project, whereas they earned only R180 when their maintenance grant was phased out.
If the ``dom alliance’’ had continued with projects such as these, many women, especially in our coloured and African townships, would have been much better off now than they actually are. The provincial government quite clearly does not care about the women in this province. [Interjections.]
I must also say that one must look at who has been campaigning about the child maintenance grant. Which other provinces are doing that, if not only this province? Where else do you find women marching? Who is inciting those women to do that? Who is doing that, if it is not the ``dom alliance’’? [Interjections.]
Neither do they care about pensioners. Every month old age pensioners stand in queues. [Interjections.] It is not uncommon for them, after standing in a queue for a long time, to be told by provincial officials that their money is not available. [Interjections.]
Lastly - just before I come back to Mrs Versfeld for the last time - the DA would like to believe that pensioners are better off in the Western Cape than in other provinces. If she wants me to pose a question to her now it is: Up to when are they going to mislead this country? This may be true with regard to white pensioners, but it is devoid of all truth where black pensioners are concerned.
A study done by Mrs Vivian Taylor has shown that pensioners are, in fact, worse off in the Western Cape than in all other provinces.
Mandigqibezele ngelithi, mhlalingaphambili, ukuba ngaba umntu ufuna ukwazi ukuba kwenzeka ntoni na phandle phaya, makeze apha ekuhlaleni kwethu. Besicinga ukuba mhlawumbi umahluko ungakhona xa kuthathwe le nduku igawulwe ezizweni yaza kufakwa apha phakathi kwethu kuba besicinga ukuba uya kuza nezimvo ezintsha nezintle. Into ayenzayo naye uhluthisa izisu ezihluthiyo, ulambisa ezi bezikade zilamba ngakumbi. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson, let me finish off by saying that if one wants to know what is really happening out there, one should visit our communities. We thought that things would be different when a new person was brought to us, because we thought that he would be a levelheaded person who would introduce new ideas. What he is doing now, is to overfeed those that have always been feeding themselves, while those that have always starved, are starving even more. [Applause.]]
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, I will not be long, because I think we all agree, as the House, that the issues of social development, of the poorest of the poor, of poverty and the infliction that has been visited, basically, on the poorest of the poor, on the HIV/Aids sufferers, have become the issues of all South Africans.
As such the role that we ought to be playing and are playing as the NCOP becomes very important. This is simply because the NCOP has become and is supposed to be the voice, generally, of all our people. It voices not only the feelings of the provinces but, more importantly, those of local government and of the communities, because all of us are supposed to be interacting on a daily basis with the people that are represented here. That was basically the vision of the constitution-makers when the Senate was turned into what it is - the NCOP.
As such, I think there is an agreement amongst all of us that there is still a lot of work to be done. Our people are calling on all of us. A lot of interaction and co-operation are necessary amongst ourselves as South Africans, beyond party differences, to ensure that there is that unity in action towards building a caring society amongst our people. I will not delve very much into some of the questions that are being raised at the present moment, because I feel very strongly that collective action is required to address the problems that face this country - all South Africans - and that this is the forum through which we can answer all those questions that have been raised.
It is quite obvious that there are many questions that have been raised. One of the issues that we ought to agree on is the issue of the elderly and the report that has been made public. These issues demand that all of us work together. We have seen that issuing the report as such cannot be the last action that we ought to take. We ought to have a form and direction through which we have to travel and, as such, we have asked three people from that big inquiry - Mr Tom Manthata, Syd Eckley and Mary Turok - to come up with a plan with which we can work.
Cabinet, as I have said, has already agreed and has asked the directors of the social cluster to come up with a plan, and we want to ensure that the plan is implemented as soon as possible. More importantly, what has come out very clearly is that it is good that all of us here - both in the National Assembly and here in the NCOP - are talking. Basically what we need with this reorganisation of local government is the participation and intervention of the local government structures in this country in some of the issues that are being raised. This is because we talk at national level and then we talk at provincial level, but down there, in the localities from which we come, we are not in dynamic contact with the people. Delivery only happens, whether we like it or not - and it is only effective and efficient - when it goes through the local government.
In our examination and introduction of the new local government structures, we ought to ensure that they are involved in the issues of service delivery, and more importantly, in the issues we are raising here. There are lot of questions that I hear and they have already been answered. I think, if there is a need, I can talk about them, but basically I can always reply to the members concerned, specifically on an issue like the improvement in conditions at payouts which was raised by Ms Jacobus. There is an answer here. Quite obviously departmental attention to communication has not been very good.
We have mostly been communicating in English and a little bit in Afrikaans, but there is a dire neglect of communication in African languages. The very fact that we speak in English here when 80% of the people of this country speak different tongues is, I think, a question that we ought to look into in our National Assembly and even here. It becomes worse when it comes to communication by the SABC, both in television and radio.
Something ought to be done for our people to understand our policies, to access the services they need, and they ought to speak in their own languages. We are not doing that. I think it is something all of us should agree on.
The issue of the IDT has been raised in connection with the broadening of the question of monitoring. The IDT has been asked to fulfil this duty and it continues to monitor and evaluate some of these questions, but we do not necessarily have to leave it to them. As Government we need to strengthen our capacity in the department itself in order to look at the policies that we have agreed on.
When we agreed on those policies, we interacted with civil society to ensure that we put something acceptable forward. We ought to do the same thing when it comes to the issue of implementing those policies. We have to work very closely with nongovernmental organisations, faith-based organisations and community-based organisation, because they are the institutions and organisations nearest to the people.
We as Government do not have that capacity and I think we all accept that. If we accept that, we can work, interact and co-operate with these organisations and we can resource and capacitate them. In turn they should stretch themselves in order to reach everybody.
We worked with them towards the removal of the apartheid regime and in setting up this new democracy. Now we have to work with them in implementing those policies about which we interacted with them before putting them across. We can only be successful if we work with them, but they need more money.
We do understand the hon member’s question on the role of the population unit, but we are trying to ensure that the unit’s work becomes what it is supposed to be. The unit should also be included in the work of the department. It cannot exist as an entity unto itself, not accountable to anybody. It has to carry out the policies of the Government. Within these policies the unit should lead and direct Government’s population policies and ensure that it does the necessary research to enable us to do what we have to.
We heard the hon Mr Ngema’s question on extending the flagship programme to men, but currently we want to concentrate on women and children.
The hon Mrs Gouws raised a question about the suspension of grants. We agree with her that the suspension of any grant is unacceptable. People ought to be informed before any suspension. They should be prepared for what is coming and given time to adjust. It is illegal for any official to decide that a person is no longer getting any grant. I repeat, it is illegal, unacceptable and unconstitutional. It is a violation of the administrative justice that each and every South African citizen is entitled to.
We have lost quite a number of cases on this issue in the last two to three months. It is really something that we should be educated on. No official has any such right whatsoever. We depend mostly on hon members to voice the concerns of ordinary citizens and to ensure that officials in the front lines do deliver the necessary grants and services that are expected from them.
The hon Mr Ngema raised a question about the poverty relief budget. This budget has not been reduced at all. As far as poverty relief is concerned, Government planned that it should come to an end this year. The department, however, looked at the whole question and decided to take the R203 million that we have over three years in order to assist projects currently in place so that they can proceed with their work and that everything does not all of a sudden, abruptly, come to an end. The beneficiaries of these projects would suffer greatly after such action. For this year and the next we will get R50 million, for 2002-03 R100 million and for 2003-04 R71 million of the total amount of R221 million.
The issue of child abuse was raised and it is obvious that we cannot agree with it in whatever manner. It is the duty of each and every member to ensure that it does not take place. I think we should work together and co- operate on this issue.
Quite a number of members raised the issue of children. All I can say right now is that we are very concerned about the way children all over the country are being treated. I think all of us should thank the mass media for the way in which they have publicised some of these atrocities carried out in our communities and homes so that more people can become aware of them. We should all work together to ensure that this does not happen again.
The other important issue that we need to talk about is HIV/Aids. I think we could, should, may and must admit that HIV/Aids is becoming a very great challenge to this country and that it can only be alleviated if we work together and educate our youth and communities about this danger. A number of issues have arisen over the last year around this disease. Quite a number of young people are dying and with those deaths comes increased poverty.
Such a death also brings a lot of problems. It questions each and every family’s ability to bury their dead with dignity. People do not always have the necessary funds to do that. Quite a number of these bodies thus remain in mortuaries, not because people do not want to fetch and bury them, but because they do not have the money to do so.
We had to take some of our funds budgeted for poverty relief to give to people from the various churches specifically to give them a burial of some sort. This does not only happen in remote areas but also in Gauteng. Numerous people are dying of HIV/Aids and they cannot bury them. We had to use that money to give to the abafundisi, the churchmen. They have a project which they use to buy these people the simplest of coffins and bury them.
The issue of HIV/Aids is something that ought to be part and parcel of our lives as members of this House and as legislators. We should show a more humane face, a more humane heart to the people suffering from HIV/Aids; it is everywhere.
I am convinced that if in the year 1997 hon members did not know of anybody who suffered from HIV, by today they must know someone. They must have met somebody, or know about somebody within the extended family or within the community. They must know that he or she must have died of HIV/Aids.
Hence it raises quite a lot of questions. However, the basic question remains: What should we do, without in any way interfering with the constitutional rights of people as individuals? I think we should encourage our people to come out openly to say when they are suffering from this disease. We should also be a little more compassionate than we are at the moment towards our fellow citizens who are suffering from this, and assist them by ensuring that whatever assistance, including social assistance, is available from the state and within our communities is given to them so that they can be integrated and feel that they are a part of our people.
I think that is something that all of us ought to know. We all talk big politics as if we are representative of our people, but I think if our people are suffering as they do, individually and collectively, we ought to be with them during this very difficult time in their lives. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
NATIONAL FOREST AND FIRE LAWS AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: Chairperson, hon members, thank you very much for the opportunity to address you. I feel very honoured and privileged to follow the Minister of Social Development, and one really notes the compassion with which he approaches the problems of our country.
It is my pleasure today to introduce the National Forest and Fire Laws Amendment Bill, which proposes amendments to the National Forests Act of 1998 and the National Veld and Forest Fire Act of that year. The National Forests Act, Act 84 of 1998, and the National Veld and Forest Fire Act, Act 101 of 1998, were promulgated in that year. For their effective implementation it has become necessary to make certain amendments to them as soon as practicable.
The National Forest and Fire Laws Amendment Bill of this year is introduced for that purpose, and proposes amendments to both pieces of legislation. The amendments are designed for the following reasons: to ensure that the provisions of these 1998 pieces of forestry-related legislation provide accuracy and legal certainty and to address sections which may be open to misinterpretation or ambiguity if they are not amended. In addition, it has become necessary to amend certain sections in order to ensure that our current restructuring of the control of forests, which is under way, is facilitated. That is perhaps one of the main reasons.
I intend to give a short background to the National Forests Act of 1998, and then to outline the proposed amendments to that Act. I will then take the same approach in respect of the National Veld and Forest Fire Act of
- To begin with, the National Forests Act of 1998 was promulgated in October of 1998, and it was decided to put the Act into effect in stages between 1998 and the present. All sections, except section 18, have been put into effect. Section 18 requires regulation, and will be put into effect in the near future.
The passing of this Act was of great significance as it represented a complete revision of forestry laws in this country as existed before that milestone and watershed in our history, 1994, introduced new approaches to forestry by the state. These included the following: The reaping of the rewards of the commercial plantation forestry sector and the timber products industry was, through that Act, opened to all entrepreneurs. That had not been the case beforehand, as we well know.
Communities which live on land surrounding forests were then, secondly, given the opportunity to become stakeholders in the management of our forests. This had not been the case before. Thirdly, a clear framework was provided for the restructuring of the state’s role in forestry, including its role in the future management of the forests, formerly managed by the erstwhile homelands.
Fourthly, it provided the recognition that my department needed to play the role of regulator in forestry, rather than what had been its traditional role as an industry participant. One cannot be both referee and player. Fifthly, it recognised the constitutional right to legislation that secures the conservation and sustainable development of our resources. This was not the case before 1994.
With respect to the proposed amendments to the National Forests Act of
1998, I will deal with these in the sequence in which they appear in the
Act. Firstly, changes are proposed to the definitions. It is felt that the
definitions of State land'' andtrust forest’’ require elaboration. The
amendment of the definition of ``State land’’ is proposed so as to allow
for land transferred to communities to remain a state forest in terms of
the joint management agreement.
The amendment of the definition of trust forest'' recognises that the
boundaries of state forests have changed over time from that homeland
paternalistic exploitative relationship, and can more accurately be
described in the manner now prescribed in the amendment in terms of the
State land’’. Secondly, an amendment is proposed to section 7. In terms
of the current provisions of the National Forests Act of 1998, a
prohibition on the destruction of trees in natural forests is proposed, but
there is no protection offered for the produce or products of trees. Hon
members need to listen carefully to this. The Bill seeks to prevent people
from dealing in the produce or products of protected trees or species.
In many cases it is the case that people are often found in possession of products such as planks and processed wood coming from the natural forests. The possession of a protected tree or its produce becomes an offence in terms of the Bill, whereas previously the offence related only to cutting, disturbing, destroying or removing the protected tree, not its products.
It is also proposed by means of the Bill to allow any person or organ of state to apply to protect a species of trees, rather than merely to protect a forest, tree or group of trees.
There is no logical reason why an application cannot be made for the protection of the species, in view of the fact that I made it clear that I have the power, in terms of Section 12(1)(b), to declare species to be protected. When it comes to the third amendment, the 1998 Act failed to take into account contracts between licensees and third parties, and the amendments to the National Forests Act are proposed to govern these situations.
Section 23(2) prohibits anyone from engaging in any activity in a state forest without a licence. In this way a contractor referred to in a later section of the Act, section 24(4)(b), will need a licence to work in a state forest. It is felt that to impose a licence fee on a contractor would have undesirable results such as the following:
Firstly, the efficiency of the licence holders, which will include successful bidders in the restructuring process - this refers directly to the major restructuring that is under way - would be undermined, with licences having to be obtained for every contract they deal with.
Secondly, the need for the issue of licences for every contractor would increase the department’s administrative costs and burden.
Thirdly, an additional licence fee would have to be charged when the original licensee has already paid the licence fee in respect of the activity concerned. It is not felt to be fair to charge the contractor a further license fee. That would not attract contractors to this business, which is in our national interest.
The issue of the granting of mining rights in state forests is addressed, and the amendment proposed makes the granting of consent for mining subject to the stringent requirements of section 3 of the Act. I might, in passing, just remind members that in terms of the mining within the forests there is a very big business in our country along the coastal forest area where the dunes exist, and where titanium is extracted. Of course, it is possible that we might find any mineral riches beneath the forest ground.
Let me come to amendments to section 28, which deal with long-term forestry supply contracts. Once-off sales are not dealt with in this section or, in fact, anywhere else in the Act. It is felt to be necessary to address the situation, as the department regularly sells forest produce and forest products in terms of its management.
In terms of section 50, I may, in terms of the Act, reserve state land for forestry. However, this land is currently under the control of different Ministers and other authorities. This amendment sets out more clearly which authorities must give consent before I may reserve the land for forestry purposes. So it is the authorities who must give consent.
The provisions relating to the manner in which regulations framed in terms of the Act come into effect are considered to be slightly confusing. It is proposed to amend the relevant sections by introducing a simpler and clearer procedure which states clearly that the regulations come into effect on their second publication in the Gazette.
A further amendment is proposed to section 55, which deals with tariffs and charges. In terms of the Act, tariffs may be levied for forest products or produce sold by my department. Furthermore, tariffs are now being introduced, namely those for forest produce or forest products sold by the department.
A further amendment was proposed to section 77(2)(b), but this proposed amendment was withdrawn at a committee meeting of the National Council and at the Portfolio Committee of the National Assembly, and it is not under debate at this stage. I am referring here to Safcol’s rights with respect to state land. Safcol had objected, and we decided to maintain original formulations. They were the only party involved, so this was accepted.
As I noted initially, the Bill proposes amendments to both the National Forests Act of 1998 and the National Veld and Forest Fire Act of 1998. I will now give a short background to this Act and the proposed amendments to the National Veld and Forest Fire Act of 1998. With regard to that background and history, the National Veld and Forest Fire Act of 1998 was promulgated in November 1998, 9 month after the other Act.
Chapters 2 and 3 have not yet been brought into effect, because Chapter 2 requires regulation and Chapter 3 compels me, as responsible Minister, to put in place a national fire danger-rating system, which clearly requires a great deal of scientific and technical research to ensure that the system is best suited for South African conditions. I do not think we quite realised back in 1998 the amount of work that was required. Both the regulation of Chapter 2 and the development of our national fire danger-rating system are currently being dealt with by my department and will be finalised as soon as possible. It is hoped to bring Chapter 2 into effect during the second half of this year, after the passage of this Bill.
The National Veld and Forest Fire Act of 1998 was significant legislation, as previous enactments before the great change of 1994 were inadequate for the prevention and combating of these fires, and it did not treat all people in a democratic manner. There is no surprise in that.
The fire control committees provided for in this legislation were not representative and the few that still exist are not effective. In addition, modern approaches to fire danger-rating systems were not provided for. The Act seeks to remedy the shortcomings by recognising that the only way for fires to be effectively prevented and combated is through the involvement of all the interested parties.
It provides for the creation of new committees named FPAs, or fire protection associations, which are voluntary bodies of all landowners in a defined area. The formation and activities of these FPAs are based upon democratic principles.
The proposed amendments to this Act are as follows. The Act provides for full co-operation between fire protection associations, but this is only specified in cases where fires cross the boundaries of those associations. This is too limiting, and the Bill now provides for full co-operation between fire protection associations at all times.
In terms of the Act, the fire protection association must appoint a fire protection officer who will, inter alia, perform the function of chief executive officer of the FPA and take control of any fire fighting in the area for which the FPA has been formed, if the veld fire is a threat to life or property, and if she or he is reasonably able to do so.
Fire fighting is a specialised activity, and municipal fire officers can render valuable service in the event of forest fires. I actually say she or he, because where we are developing such associations and I am so impressed to find women of our country emerging. This is another reason we can state that, post 1994, we are becoming so inclusive to our country. One could never have found a female fire fighter in the past.
Just the other day I was in Joe Slovo settlement, in Khayelitsha, participating with the fire-fighting unit. I was very impressed to find that half of the members were women, and I was very impressed to find that the Cape Town municipal fire fighters who were engaging with the Khayelitsha FPA have many women within their ranks, black and white, by the way. This is our new South Africa. [Applause.]
So we cannot talk about firemen'' anymore. It is wonderful to see, and I
am honoured that the Chairperson of this august National Council of
Provinces is here and I have seen how delighted she is. Who can talk about
policemen’’ and ``firemen’’? It is policepersons, firepersons and
postpersons.
The Act, as it stands, makes it compulsory for the chief fire officer of a municipality situated within the area of a fire protection association to be the fire protection officer. That was the case, but to require the chief fire officer of a municipality to perform duties which are over and above her or his employment duties has no justification in law.
An amendment to the Act is necessary. The amendment will mean that the fire protection officer will be appointed from the members of the fire protection association. He or she may be the chief fire officer of that municipality, but only if she or he volunteers to perform these duties.
As stated previously, the introduction of a national fire danger-rating system is provided for in the Act, and factors which a system must take into account are specified. It has, however, become clear that any such system cannot, in the interests of practicality, take all factors into account, and an amendment is therefore necessary which states in essence that, where reasonably possible, certain factors must be taken into account.
As in the case of the National Forests Act of 1998, the Bill streamlines
the procedure for the promulgation of regulations under the National Veld
and Forest Fire Act. No expenditure on the part of the state is foreseen in
relation to the amendments. My department and the state law advisers are of
the opinion that the procedure provided for in section 76 of the
Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, Act 106 of 1996, should
be followed with regard to this Bill. This is an amending Bill to
legislation which falls within the functional areas listed in Schedule 4 to
the Constitution, namely, to quote, the administration of indigenous
forests'',environment’’ and ``nature conservation’’.
In conclusion, it is my understanding that this Bill has been previously presented to the select committee of this House, and that on 28 May 2001 provinces were given a final negotiating mandate to support the Bill. I wish to thank all our provinces - and that is why it is always wonderful to be in the NCOP - for their confidence in the Bill, and I request all members of the House to pass this Bill.
I know that I said in conclusion'', but I do have an addendum here, which
is final. My Chief Director of Forestry phoned me just before I came down
and asked me to say this. I would like to take advantage of the opportunity
to let all members know that my department is embarking on a fire awareness
campaign and that shortly we will be unveiling the new motive for the
campaign.
Many of the members, particularly the older ones, will remember a shy deer
nicknamed in the past - my apologies to the hon Naledi Pandor -Bokkie’’.
I do not think it referred to a springbokkie''. It is clear it was one of
those bokkies and recalls that famous Afrikaans song that goes,Bokkie,
jy moet nou huis toe gaan’’.
It is clear that in today’s terms, because it goes back to the 1950s, it is gender-insensitive. But the point, which was a good one, was that that Bokkie was synonymous with fire prevention. She was a product of the middle of the last century, and now we are updating this logo to fit in with this century and our times.
We want to keep that little deer, because our research shows that many people are very aware that this frightened-looking deer does, in fact, remind them of the need to look after our forests. So it is very good, but we will make certain changes and make sure that it is much more gender- sensitive.
In time, very soon, we will be presenting that to our public, and there will be a renaming which will be more appropriate to our continent. This will be a motive for the campaign. I look forward to introducing this motive to the House and the public in the near future.
Finally, let me say, in terms of the work that has gone into this Bill, that I have a Chief Director of Forestry - unfortunately she is not here - Lael Bethlehem, who is in charge of the forests of our country. She works incredibly hard, and she is such an asset to the new South Africa. When I go abroad or when I have visitors here, I can introduce her to people. I think that they are very impressed that we have a woman in this position.
I also want to thank Linda Swanepoel, who has recently joined us and done a lot of work on this. She is wearing red and she is with us today. She is working in forestry, together with my director-general, Mike Miller, and I want to express my thanks to them for the tremendously hard work that they have done to bring this Bill before this House.
Nkosi, siyabonga kakhulu. [Thank you very much.]
Baie dankie. [Thank you very much.]
I always like to end with that marvellous Sesotho and Setswana motto for our country, be it for amanzi [water] or hlati [forest.]
Pula, nala le kgotso. [Legofi.] [Peace and prosperity.] [Applause.]
Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, hon Minister Ronnie Kasrils, members of the department present here, hon members and special delegates, we are in the seventh year of our democratically elected Government, and this has been seven years of hard work by a Government that, for the first time, endeavoured to deal with all issues affecting citizens of this country in an impartial fashion.
The National Forest and Fire Laws Amendment Bill, the debate on which I am participating in, has a lot of significance to the lives of the majority of our people. As such, with the time that I have at my disposal, I need to share this significance as part of an effort by members of this House, led by the ANC, in its unwavering pursuit of a better life for all our people.
Besides these noble uses of this phenomenon, fires can be devastating. They have in numerous cases destroyed lives and property. This National Forest and Fire Laws Amendment Bill adds to the matrix of jurisdictional provisions by this Government to value and protect the lives of all citizens of our beloved country when these disasters occur.
The destructive side of fires will, I am sure, illustrate my insistence on this Bill being not only significant and fundamental to upholding our constitutional obligations, but that its rallying point also needs mentioning.
So often, for example, these fires are started by pyromaniacs whose sick obsession with fire endangers the lives of law-abiding citizens. This Bill provides legal provisions in dealing with such cases, and therefore its implementation requires that the Ministry charged with justice and the Constitution be brought on board.
Sporadic natural fires afflict individuals, farming entities, communities, and so on, with unbearable disasters. Thus the need for all these sectors to be mobilised cannot be over-emphasised.
The ANC attends to these issues with a deep sense of conviction, as the affected people are those who have bestowed on us in this House and the organisation the mandate to improve their livelihood and social security. Obviously, therefore, strong co-operation by other tiers of government is required for the successful implementation of this Bill.
When one mentions `wild forest and veld fires’, the deadly infernos spring to mind that characterise the Western Cape and have befallen people in this province. Recently we witnessed a huge loss of property in the area surrounded by mountains in Somerset West as a result of these wild fires. Those of us who have fought forest fires have felt the intensity of the heat and smell of death and who have seen the consequent destruction of lives and property would appreciate having systems and mechanisms in place to avert such disasters.
Cape Town, or the Western Cape, accommodates a very fire-prone biome known as the fynbos or the Cape Floral Kingdom. The success of this biome relies on periodic fires that help to break the seedpods or whatever seed casing various species use so that they can germinate. Table Mountain and areas that fall within the Cape Peninsula National Park are annually plagued by these unforgiving and life-threatening fires.
Our Government, led by the ANC, prides itself on seeking and putting in place a holistic approach to addressing this and similar challenges, to which the previous government would have responded in a skewed fashion, as they always did to issues confronting them. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry, Ronnie Kasrils’ statements during the launch of a programme here in Cape Town attest to the resolve of this Government not only to deal with wild fires, but to make sure that issues are addressed both in context and holistically. Minister Kasrils remarked on that day:
As this Government, we refuse to be proponents of sectoral and ill- conceived proposals in dealing with issues of this nature and broader socioeconomic challenges.
Fire-fighting was a collective responsibility. Such remained the case until the notion of individualism and, worse even, land dispossession was put in place. When people were moved to overcrowded homelands there was very little, if any, sense of self-worth and attachment to the land and community. The consequence of this, about which the masters of the policies of separation must have been pleased, was anticollective behaviour. Fire- fighting became something for a few members of the petty bourgeoisie, who owned separate plots of land. Those who had nothing saw themselves as unaffected and therefore did not volunteer. This instrumented behaviour is not African and, moreover, is ungodly.
Motswana motswa kwa loe a re ``Tswaragano ke maatla, magora go mabapi, mabogo dinku a athebana’’ [Unity is strength, he who sleeps with dogs gets up with fleas, people should help each other].
This amended Bill seeks to mobilise people when dealing with life- threatening disasters such as forest fires. It is a significant shift from past practices and seeks to restore a sense of worth among the affected people of our country.
I mentioned earlier on the fact that this Bill should not be seen in isolation from the thrust of the programme of the national Government. It is part of a national endeavour to restore the dignity of our communities, to eliminate threats to life, to minimise the destruction of property, and to have our people learn fire-fighting as part of life skills.
These seeds can burn even when they are actively growing and can yield deadly fires leaping up to 30m high, in which case most the fire-fighting teams can only watch hopelessly.
In initiating the Working for Water programme, our Government has been able, by means of emphasising the fact that employment be confined to the local population, to create a well-trained extra pair of foot soldiers who can effectively deal with fires.
Allow me to quote the words that President Mbeki used in this House during his reply to the debate on his state-of-the-nation address, when he said (Hansard 2001, col 417):
The faint-hearted and cynical will mock the strivings of the people, because they do not want to join in the offensive to make a decisive break with our past. What we will say in Setswana is:``se sa feleng se a bese tlhola!,’’
Tshipo erile ke lebelo motlhaba ware ke namile. [That which does not come to an end, is taboo.]
Indeed, the ANC will triumph in the offensive against apartheid injustices, and therefore sufferings, in all forms, will cease to exist. [Applause.]
Mr P I MALEFANE (Gauteng): Chairperson, there was this couple moving out of a shebeen after a heavy drinking spree. On their way home, they wanted to test their state of sobriety and they argued over the moon. One was saying that what was shining so bright was the moon, and the other was saying it was not the moon, but the sun. Seeing that they could not resolve the argument, they had to get a mediator or an arbiter. There was this guy who was passing by. They stopped him and told him that they were arguing and it seemed there would not be any consensus. The man said he saw the moon and the woman saw the sun. They asked this guy whether it was the sun or the moon that was shining so brightly. The guy said to them that unfortunately he did not stay in the area. He might not be able to help them.
In a sense, I think we are not going to be like the person who does not stay in that area, by abdicating our responsibility in protecting our natural resources.
Minister and members, as the Bill attempts to make a provision regarding the possession and disposal of trees and forest products in natural forests, it is imperative to note that such a provision will enhance the protection of our rare plant species and further strengthen the licensing process with regard to the removal of such species.
As an urban ideologue, I need to indicate that the amendments, as well as the existing legislation on forests, do not necessarily mean that forest- related matters should be relegated to rural areas or agencies alone. We should remember that the department has introduced a greening programme that also promotes the afforestation campaign to ensure that we replace the brown, dusty, unhabitable township environment with greenery, with an animal-friendly, habitable suburban environment that is in line with our constitutional duty to ensure a healthy and safe environment.
In supporting this, the national Minister, in his budget speech recently, said the following on the subject of greening our country:
I strongly advocate the planting of our own beautiful indigenous plants and trees. I have given my fullest support to the urban greening programme of such organisations as Trees and Food for Africa. We must ensure that our townships and our bleak rural settlements become just as green as the affluent suburbs. Our commitment to Arbor Week and Water Week and the planting of trees to heal the nation are bearing fruit, and these have become popular events on our national calendar.
As Gauteng, we are also encouraged to know that the Minister has been able to allay fears that the flagship Working for Water programme is a threat to all forms of exotic plants, like the jacarandas and eucalyptus. We hope that the mistaken removal of some jacarandas in the Tshwane area will be corrected, as such mistakes turn out to be costly to both the state and communities. In conclusion, I need to indicate that our support for sustainable development that ensures the protection of our environment should be informed by a quest to meet the needs of present generations without compromising the ability of future ones to meet their own needs. Hence we support this Bill and we will vote in favour of its principles and details. [Applause.]
Mrs A M VERSFELD: Chairperson, during our committee meeting, the department assured us that there had been extensive consultations on this Bill, and that comments had been received from a large number of organisations. The amendments in this Bill correct technical shortfalls in the principal Act and involve no shift in policy. They only make the implementation of the principal Act more practical.
The amendments also correct the wording of certain provisions that could lead to misinterpretation, uncertainty or confusion.
Umlilo uluncedo. Umlilo uyingozi. [Fire is helpful. Fire is dangerous.]
It is impractical to require a fire danger rating system to take into account all the factors mentioned in the Act. It is just not possible. The amendments in this Bill are more reasonable in terms of the system. They also help to cater for actions with an adjoining fire protection association, even if the fire does not cross boundaries.
This Bill also protects trees and restricts dealing in products derived from those trees. The DP also agrees that protected trees growing on private property are, indeed, protected trees, and that it is illegal to cut down such trees without a licence, even if they are on one’s own property.
Although a protected forest can be used for domestic purposes, licences are required if wood is to be used for business purposes. It is necessary to ensure the sustainability of our indigenous forests.
We trust that the Minister will soon table the regulations, together with the written comments and advice. We are looking forward to the new logo for fire awareness that the Minister has just mentioned, though I must admit that I am glad that the Minister is keeping ``Bokkie’’. The DP supports this Bill. [Applause.]
Dr M E MATEME (Northern Province): Chairperson, the ruling party, which is the organisation to which I belong, emphasises the principle of collective approaches and, as a result, I am not going to repeat what other speakers before have already tabled before this House.
However, I wish to indicate that, the Bill in question being a section 76 Bill, my province has followed the procedure stipulated for such Bills. At its subsequent sitting, it gave us a mandate to support this Bill 100%, but also to indicate regarding the amendment of Section 7, in our view as the province with the only unique species of cycads, namely is the Modjadji cycads, that it is our very well-considered view that, if one preserves the tree without preserving its environment, one may, down the line, end up with a different tree, because the species is what it is in terms of its environment.
Thus we would request the law-drafters to make a modification providing for the ecosystem in the area where the special tree is found. Otherwise it may not be the same tree down the years, when its environment has been subject to changes and exploitation, etc. That is the input from the province of peace.
Through this Bill, history has been made. Being the type of province that we are, the tension between traditional healers in our province and traditional healers from Swaziland was really rising; because some of those shrubs and rhizomes - dirokolo in my language - and other medicinal shrubs, herbs and tubers which are found only in some specific natural forests would, if this clause were not modified, as we are proposing, stand a chance of becoming extinct.
Now this amending Bill brings with it a lot of hope in our communities, even though we are negatively complimented by being known as the witchcraft zone of the country. [Laughter.] Considered in a positive manner, we may be the province that is preserving centuries-old practices which saw to the health of the people of the area long before the colonists arrived.
I would therefore like to tell the Minister that, with this Bill, we are really encouraged because people who did not know what legal framework to resort to in order to protect their own trade and industry, now finally have a piece of legislation which will make sure that, from generation to generation, they will continue to practise their own professions. [Applause.]
Mr H L COMBRINK (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, hon Minister and members, I would like take this opportunity to say thanks for the time allocated to us from the province of KwaZulu-Natal.
The amendments under discussion in the National Forest and Fire Laws Amendment Bill were brought to the province as they were classified as section 76 Bills, according to the Constitution. We, as delegates from the province, came down to the NCOP on two occasions to deliberate with other hon members and the department on these amendments. All clauses were looked at and questions were asked, and answered very satisfactorily by the department’s officials.
An issue that was raised by me, specifically, and other members was regarding a licence or a permit that all community members would have to obtain before they could harvest any trees or parts thereof. Today I want to raise this issue again and mention that, according to the department, the gathering of firewood was exempted by the Minister in the regulations of the Bill. We also understand why permits must be obtained, so that species under threat of extinction can be monitored and a proper long-term plan can be put on the table for their survival.
In areas of KwaZulu-Natal like the Makhatini Flats, Hluhluwe and Mtubatuba, people live by selling these products to tourists for their daily bread. According to the customary law, under the amakhosi, people need to ask for permission before harvesting these products. This is, therefore, not a new thing at all. My plea is that people making laws and regulations, including me, must not do that just because it sounds correct. The practical side of it must be practised and maintained. Therefore, the question I would like to ask is: Are there sufficient officials out there in the provinces to implement this, and will they be able to reach all communities, or are we bluffing ourselves?
Provinces were concerned about the route the amendments took from the department to the public out there. We were satisfied when the new list was handed to the committee of organisations of all the stakeholders in the sector.
On the National Forest and Fire Laws Amendment Bill, the stakeholders in KwaZulu-Natal were sufficiently informed and their inputs taken on board. We thank the department for that. I must take this opportunity to comment on amendments to the National Veld and Forest Fire Act. Although this Act was passed in 1998, I would like to view the opinion of a lot of people who made their input to me very clearly. If a fire should start on my property and burn down that of my neighbour, I am liable and can be prosecuted for that, or for damages. Taking part in activities to prevent fires with the necessary equipment and clothing for my work is part of my or the landowner’s duties. If not, he can be prosecuted.
The question, in practical terms, for instance, is: What happens in the case of the Ngonyama trust land? Who is liable and who will be implementing the law? Many landowners up to this date do not adhere to this Act or to the regulations.
In conclusion, with these few comments, I and my province of KwaZulu-Natal support the amendments before this honourable House. [Applause.]
Mr T S MOHLOMI (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs present and hon members present, let me take this opportunity to thank you for giving me a chance to speak in this august House of yours. I must say, right from the beginning, that this is my first chance to participate in a debate in this House. I missed the other two opportunities before as I had to go back home to deal with an emergency. Since this is my maiden speech, I am not going to take very long, not because the matter we are discussing is not important, but because the amending Bill that we are debating is a fairly straightforward one and is noncontroversial.
I must also say, right from the beginning, that we in KwaZulu-Natal fully support this National Forest and Fire Laws Amendment Bill. We support it because it brings about a new way of doing things in this country, in so far as the protection and management of our forests, especially our indigenous forests, and the fighting of veld fires are concerned. It is common knowledge that the laws of the past regime never took into cognisance the existence of so-called black rural communities. All the laws that had anything to do with the rural areas were designed to cater for white commercial farming areas. Whether these laws had to do with fire protection activities, spatial planning, the provision of services or anything that should be done in rural areas, they were designed to favour the white farming communities. It is against this background that I am saying that this law makes a break with the past, and a very decisive one, when it comes to the two issues that I have already mentioned, that is, the management of our forests and fire-fighting in our areas.
In this Bill we can see that there is a need for more co-operation between the areas falling under traditional authorities and commercial farming areas. This Bill makes it possible to create an enabling environment for this co-operation to take place. I believe that this is most welcome since it will open up opportunities to share in the resources that exist in all our communities.
The next point that I would like to touch on is the one about the need to protect our environment. One of the biggest crimes that any nation can commit is to destroy or allow its national endowments and environment to be destroyed. We are fortunate in South Africa today in that we have a Government that takes issues of environment protection seriously, unlike before. Our natural forests are a major resource for this country from an environmental perspective. If we allow them to be destroyed, this will have ripple effects and may end up affecting our rivers, birds and animals that are dependent on the existence of these natural forests.
The natural interdependence of our fauna and flora cannot be overemphasised in this regard. When you destroy one, you destroy the rest. If you protect one, you help the other to survive. What I like the most about this Bill, when it comes to the protection of our natural forests, is the attitude that these are national assets, that they do not belong to any one individual. Even if they are found on what can be regarded as private property, they are not one person’s individual property, but belong to the people of South Africa as a whole.
The same sentiment applies to protected species. Even if a protected particular species may be on a person’s private property, that person has no right to do as he or she pleases with it without permission from the Minister. I believe that this is most welcome, because more often than not one finds that people claim, ``Well, since this tree grows on my farm or in my yard, it then belongs to me and I can do as I please with it.’’ I believe that this particular issue here will help us to protect our protected species much more effectively.
I find this to be a firm foundation on which to build our protection policy and, certainly, from KwaZulu-Natal we hail it. Finally, I wish to thank our sister provinces for the co-operation they have shown in the negotiation process through the NCOP Select Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs. This, of course, is not happening for the first time in this committee, but the continuation of this co-operation is real co-operative governance at work. [Applause.]
Mr T S JORDAN (Eastern Cape): Chairperson, hon members of the House, Minister and MECs here, let me start by thanking the Minister for having identified some loopholes in the principal Act. Today he is presenting some of these amendments. Again, we appreciate the straight communication we have been getting from the NCOP, communicating with the province and briefing us timeously. As the Eastern Cape, we commend that.
Let me say again that we had a tough time coming to an agreement with our delegates in the Eastern Cape. We had to grill them to a level at which we had to go back and look at the principal Act before we could come to some agreement. We happened to be convinced, as the Minister’s comrade informed us that we must rest assured that our Minister spent a long time in the forest and studied a lot in those forests. So that was the Minister’s political commissar who convinced us. [Laughter.]
I will have to stick to the mandate I was given by my province. Firstly, we support the Bill. One other area - one of a few areas we said we would have to note here, without exceeding the parameters of our mandate - was the situation we said we would love, the situation in which we encourage and trust the Minister to make sure that the issue of payment for municipal services be considered very seriously. We based our opinion on the fact that in our province we have poor municipalities that are already in debt. If we are not explicit in saying who will be responsible for payment for those services, at the end we might have a situation in which the current debt of those municipalities is increased.
One other area that we also intend requesting the Minister to look at is the question of fast-tracking the issue of these fire protection associations. In terms of the original Act, most areas we are covering, and some homelands which were not previously considered in the principal Act, never had these fire associations. We have experienced some fire disasters in the province where commercial farmers and some communal farmers lost a lot of their property, animals and so forth. So we are saying we would love a situation in which fast-tracking takes place, more particularly with the approaching winter in that particular area. We would love that to be considered by our Minister.
The other area that we also looked at was the question of protected trees.
We agree and we concur with the resolution, but we also say that, while the list will not be changed, we need to look at some areas where environmental issues in some forests were not considered.
Some trees, which previously were in abundance, are being destroyed. We will have to look at the situation. We will have to protect some trees that are not listed as protected in certain areas of our province.
Then there is the fact that while we appreciate the amendments, we also believe more attention should be paid to the monitoring mechanisms, particularly concerning the implementation of these amendments. It is no use coming up with amendments and at the end being unable to implement and monitor the processes.
We appreciate the areas that have been covered, namely forest management, protected trees and licences, thereby preventing a situation in which anyone feeling like it could simply go into the forest and destroy whatever is there.
Concerning monitoring mechanisms, we should look not only at indigenous trees, but also at environmental issues within the forests. This is another area that we need to look at.
Lastly, we hope the restructuring of forests and the mining rights in them will be checked. The experience within our province, particularly along the coast, is that a lot of illegal mining takes place within forests. [Applause.]
Dr E A CONROY: Agb Voorsitter, Minister, spesiale afgevaardigdes en kollegas, die wetsontwerp wat vandag gedebatteer word, is van administratiewe aard, is nie teenstrydig met enige gesonde beginsels op die gebied van bosbestuur en brandbestryding nie en behels ook geen beleidsveranderings nie.
Ek verwys kortliks na sommige van die voorgestelde wysigings aan die hoofwette, naamlik die Nasionale Wet op Bosse van 1998 en die Nasionale Wet op Veld en Bosbrande van 1998 wat in dié wetsontwerp vervat is.
In die eerste plek is die definisies van Staatsgrond'' entrustbos’’
nie omskrywend genoeg nie. Die wysiging aan artikel 2 van die Nasionale Wet
op Bosse poog om ‘n wyer en duideliker omskrywing aan die begrip
``Staatsgrond’’ te gee. Die gedagte is dat grond, wat na aanleiding van ‘n
grondeis aan ‘n gemeenskap oorgedra word, kragtens ‘n gesamentlike
bestuursooreenkoms tussen die staat en die betrokke gemeenskap, steeds ‘n
staatsbos bly.
Die wysiging aan die definisie van ‘n ``trustbos’’ erken verder die feit dat die grense van staatsbosse met die verloop van tyd verander het en is daarop gemik om dié bosse te omskryf kragtens die mees onlangs opgemete grense.
Die wysiging aan artikel 7 van die Nasionale Wet op Bosse behandel die produkte en neweprodukte wat van afgekapte bome afkomstig is. Permitte sal in die toekoms nie slegs vir die afkap van bome vereis word nie, maar ook vir die handeldryf in produkte daarvan.
Hoewel gemeenskappe egter sonder permitte vuurmaakhout in die bosse sal kan versamel, sal die wet nog steeds streng toegepas word oor aspekte soos die plek waar dit versamel word en die hoeveelhede wat versamel mag word.
Dit is daarom verblydend en prysenswaardig dat die Departement van Bosbou met hierdie en ander tersaaklike wysigings aan die bestaande wet ‘n daadwerklike poging aanwend om gemeenskappe by deelnemende bosbestuur te betrek. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Dr E A CONROY: Hon Chairperson, Minister, special delegates and colleagues, the Bill that is being debated today is of an administrative nature, is not in violation of any sound principles in the arena of forest management and fire-fighting and also contains no policy changes.
I refer briefly to some of the proposed amendments to the principal acts, namely the National Forests Act of 1998 and the National Veld and Forest Fire Act of 1998, which are contained in this Bill.
In the first place, the definitions of State land'' andtrust forest’’
are not definitive enough. The amendment of section 2 of the National
Forests Act attempts to give a broader and clearer definition of the
concept of ``State land’’. The idea is that land which is transferred to a
community as a result of a land claim, remains a state forest in terms of a
joint management agreement between the state and the relevant community.
The amendment of the definition of a ``trust forest’’ further recognises the fact that the borders of state forests have changed with time and is aimed at defining these forests in terms of the most recently surveyed borders.
The amendment of section 7 of the National Forests Act deals with the products and by-products from trees that have been felled. In future permits will be required not only for felling trees, but also for trading in resultant products.
However, while communities will be able to gather firewood in forests without permits, the Act will still be strictly enforced regarding aspects such as the place where it may be collected and the amounts that may be collected.
It is therefore heartening and praiseworthy that with this and other relevant amendments to the existing Act, the Department of Forestry is making a decisive effort to involve communities in participatory forest management.]
The amendments to the National Veld and Forest Fire Act of 1998 basically refer to the aspects which require urgent attention in cases where fires threaten to cross boundaries and to some aspects of the rating system for fires.
The principal Act is very limiting in that it only makes provision for co- operation between fire protection associations when fires cross their common boundaries.
The Bill, however, makes provision for co-operation to take place in all cases. Municipal fire officers are specialists in their field and can render a valuable contribution in the fighting of forest fires. The Bill therefore enables these officers to make themselves available on a voluntary basis.
In conclusion, this Bill seeks to introduce simpler and clearer procedures in the implementation of the relevant Acts, streamlines the procedures for the promulgation of regulations under the Acts and does not foresee any expenditure on the part of the state.
The New NP therefore supports the principle and detail of this Bill without reservation. [Applause.]
Dr A E VAN ZYL (Western Cape): Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, I gladly follow on the hon Dr Conroy in this debate.
We in the Western Cape are still trying to come to terms with the disastrous consequences of the major veld and bush fires that raged out of control in our province during the first quarter of 2000.
The hon reverend also referred to these fires and their damage in his speech earlier and I thank him for that. The devastating effects of these major fires were of such a magnitude that two governmental investigations were mandated to seek ways of solving the problems identified.
The two investigations, one a national Department of Water Affairs and Forestry exercise and the other a provincial investigation, both highlighted the shortcomings of the National Veld and Forest Fire Act. However, I think the Minister addressed all the concerns of the Western Cape up to this point in his opening speech and I thank him for that. It shortened my speech.
I can report that the provincial government of the Western Cape has instituted an aggressive project management programme to address the recommendations of the two investigations. Chapters 2 and 3 are also partially addressed through the co-operation of all the relevant role- players involved in the project process.
It would be appreciated if urgent attention could be given to the promulgation of the outstanding chapters of the National Veld and Forest Fire Act that have been mentioned. I think the Minister covered that too. I want to thank the hon the Minister again.
In conclusion, we would like to thank all the governmental organisations and the private sector for their dedicated assistance in executing the 117 recommendations which are currently being addressed as part of the Western Cape’s major Fires 2000 project management programme, and especially the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry for their contribution in this regard.
We support this Bill wholeheartedly. [Applause.]
Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs, special delegates, administrators who are here and all the hon members of this loveable House, our beloved province of the Free State has reviewed the National Forest and Fire Laws Amendment Bill, which is a section 76 Bill, and is in favour of it.
It also created the enthusiasm to bring back afforestation, since much of our motherland in the Free State has been devastated by past bad practises of farming that seemed helpful at the time, but have become a liability to many of us and the future of our children.
Large tracts of trees were mowed down to make way for large tractors to move freely and without hindrance in the extensive arable land for maximum harvest.
As a result of this approach, much of the nutritious topsoil was swept off by occasional and spasmodic torrential rains. Very little note was taken, even of the topography of the land. Gusts of wind accelerated their speed since very few trees were left as windbreaks, and endangered natural species.
Later on, when experience taught those people about the value of trees, eucalyptus trees were planted extensively as windbreaks, even though they are alien to our motherland and suck much of the water from the land. Seeing the balls and clouds of sand, they dared to decide to use them to the detriment of indigenous shrubs and grass underneath them.
Thus there is a great desire to seek alternative sources of fuel to wood chopped from the few bushes and trees that struggle to survive right now. Thus they decided to dare, and they fixed pillars of uncertainty.
Our great concern has been the practice of decades of burning grass and reeds at the end of summer. After harvest, many farmers still burn the stalks of maize, which are still good fodder for the cattle, goats and other livestock. Thus when the wind blows, the smoke becomes a serious traffic hazard, and it fans the flames of a fire that devours anything in its way by leaps and bounds, causing extensive damage. Arguments then ensue as to who started the fire, who is responsible for that, and who will compensate for the loss incurred.
Thus, this National Forest and Fire Laws Amendment Bill is much needed and tabled timeously. That is why we support this Bill. We therefore thank the Minister for the support he gave our province’s Tiger Project, and also for his support for the Drakensberg and Lesotho initiatives.
We are concerned with the pollution of our water streams, and the air pollution which thwarts and defoliates tops of trees which finally do not grow tall. We take it as a challenge to expect the farms to eradicate eucalyptus trees since they are not indigenous. Yet they have good medicinal potency, and are used extensively as windbreaks. If the trees are cut down, what will replace them right away as windbreaks? That is the challenge we have. We would love to use this project for poverty alleviation.
We still have problems of waste control in the Free State. We have African homes where they still use the bucket system for their toilets whilst whites do not experience the same. In some of the areas where there is sewerage, poor services were provided, which makes the sewerage system spew up the mess from toilets in the streets, where God’s people are forced to tread in that mess in order to cross. We thank the Minister for attempts he has made to put right the situation.
We are the only province that has a game reserve right in the middle of the city, which is on Naval Hill, Bloemfontein. The trees and bushes caught fire because firecrackers were thrown there. As God is a healer, there has been regrowth, even though the scars of the fire are still there.
We are endorsing and utilising the use of volunteerism. We are educating and reorientating our people about veld fires, home- fires and trash fires, since not all fires can be extinguished the same way with water. We combine this with education on the abuse of tobacco. Passers-by throw their cigarette stubs onto the side of the road, igniting fires on the dry grass on the roadside, and this has contributed to some of the traffic accidents on our highways.
Ke mo kae jwale? [Ditsheho.] [Where am I now?] [Laughter.]]
We therefore seek assistance in the replanting of trees in suburban and rural areas. We seek assistance in providing alternative fuels like cow dung, as it is used extensively in Bharat, which is erroneously known as India. We seek subsidisation for the creation and issuing of solar energy extraction, and to restore indigenous trees, and we seek information on past forests that occupied our province which enabled lions, leopards, tigers, wild dogs, hares, rabbits and buck to exist, and the colourful bugs that used to fly from tree to tree while the strong, stinging bees and hornets flew to and fro.
The ANC, in its programme of the African Renaissance, has energised us to bring back that past and to avert forest fires and grass burnings. With the prevalence of HIV/Aids deaths, more and more trees are felled to make wooden coffins for the dying masses.
This really disturbs us, since these deaths necessitate the cutting down of trees that took many years to grow. As we campaign for people to live right in order to curb the ever-increasing number of corpses that need coffins, maybe it is time to speak out about the alternative, which is cremation. After all, in each funeral it is often said: dust to dust and ashes to ashes. [Interjections.]
Therefore, land and wood are becoming very scarce. What a joy it is to be in this time of rebirth, reconstruction, reconciliation and working together. This is an era in which men, women, the youth and children must begin caring for one another, because God’s stewards of vegetables, minerals, liquids, gas and life represent a worthwhile venture. May we be found to be imbued with the passion of caring. If we all do that seriously, we will truly be a forest of hope and a haven for all in the future.
With these words, the Free State supports the Bill and urges all to implement it.
HON MEMBERS: Hallelujah!
Rev M CHABAKU: Amen! Hallelujah! [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Thank you very much, Rev Chabaku, particularly for cheering us up. [Laughter.]
The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: Chairperson, hon members, siyabonga kakhulu, thank you, enkosi, and what a wonderful debate it has been. Fire, as does water, unites us. We all know that water is colourless, and fire burns us all to a cinder. No wonder that when we discuss water and fire, we find this kind of unanimity. It is very good indeed, and it shows how we are building a united nation, a people that is coming together from diverse backgrounds, languages and cultures, colours, ethnicity, etc. We are getting there. We are building a true South Africa that has been deeply divided. It still is to a great degree, but we, in this kind of debate, show the spirit of ubuntu, in coming together.
Rev P Moatshe has really put it very eloquently. He talked about the need for coming together and not standing alone as individuals. He has very truly reflected what we need to stand for. He referred to the fire-prone fynbos kingdom. In this respect, we also had an excellent input from Dr A E Van Zyl from the Western Cape, who knows full well what we went through last February and March.
Of course, we must be very clear that the fynbos is born to burn, and through its natural cycle the fires occur, as the reverend pointed out. But these fires of a natural fynbos environment do not create dangers, because they burn at a very low level. What happened was a result of invasive vegetation. When we say ``aliens’’, we are not referring to human souls. [Interjections.] We are talking about exotic trees and weeds from abroad, and we are not declaring war on the beautiful eucalypti, with 206 or so species in the country, and the wonderful jacaranda, my favourite tree, or the oaks, etc. I grew up in Johannesburg amongst such trees.
The emphasis is on ``invasive’’. Where those eucalypti - I say this to our eloquent last speaker, Rev Chabaku - are serving a purpose and not invading the riverine environment, where they behave themselves, such as the trees of Pretoria or Cape Town or Bloemfontein and in all our wonderful cities and smaller towns, they are not a problem.
However, if the trees, such as the jacarandas of Pretoria, do run amok, if we do not keep them in control, and they invade the riverine environment, then, as we well know, they take up inordinate quantities of water and become a great danger. That is what our country has to understand. We also must understand that we have the most wonderful indigenous trees and plants and must have our minds focused on enjoying their beauty and allowing them to grow as they did in years gone by. With regard to this aspect of what happened in the Western Cape, which Dr Van Zyl referred to, I want to acknowledge how in this province we put everybody together, from national to provincial and to local government level, and then the NGOs, such as those working for water and others, the private sector, such as Santam and Total, who came on board, Nedbank, big amounts of funding, and the media, The Cape Argus and Cape Times group. It was a wonderful partnership with the local communities.
Getting back to the hon reverend, without the people we are alone, we will achieve nothing. It is when we link with the communities of whatever colour, wherever they are, to work together in common understanding, that we can literally perform miracles. I wanted to acknowledge that.
Everybody here has made a marvellous contribution. I have noted down every contribution and comment and also have my officials here. We will respond through letters from me to all members. We certainly take note of everything.
I want to say in relation to a very special reference and very interesting input by Dr Mateme of the Northern Province that our Act does make provision for the protection of the environment and it provides for the Northern Province. There is no way that I am going to create any conflict with Queen Modjadji at all. I believe that I began to rival her as a rain- maker, because since I became a Minister it has not stopped raining.
Well, the Western Cape is a little bit of an exception. It has rained everywhere in the country and created floods: the Free State, the Northern Cape, the Karoo, the Eastern Cape, then, going north through Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, generally very wet and fertile, and into the Northern Province, including the arid places. [Interjections.]
Rev M CHABAKU: Where the ANC is. [Interjections.]
The MINISTER: Then there is the North West province. For the Reverend’s benefit, there is something I do like to say - and I am teasing Dr Van Zyl
- which I have said here before. I have good friends in this province - the MEC for the environment, Glen Adams, and I work very well together - but I have said, teasingly, to the people of this province that they have not had rain because they did not vote for us as the people did elsewhere. [Laughter.]
However, I am very pleased to come back to the Western Cape. Just this past week, at last, flying into a province which has been looking so dry, and where the dams are very low - everywhere else the dams are a 100% full and some are overflowing - I have seen that the land is green. But we have a long way to go, and a lot more rain will have to fall before the dams here are full. I thank the members very much for that contribution.
In terms of the time, I will wait for the red card from the Deputy Chairperson. He can just ring the bell or I will keep going.
I would like to say to Ms Versfeld that I did not notice the red gloves. I do not know whether she is joining my party. [Laughter.] But it was very good to hear how the hon member paid tribute to my department in the consultation process. I am a hard taskmaster with my director-general and the officials, and when I hear of tributes paid to them and to the consultation process, I am really immensely pleased. I say thank you very much. And I do want to say to her that the regulations will be published for comment very soon after the passing of this Bill.
I want to refer to Dr Mateme and to Mr Combrink from KwaZulu-Natal in relation to the issue of sufficient staff. We are attending to this. We feel we will be able to enforce the licensing, but we need a great amount of co-operation from the other levels of governance in the province and, obviously, at local level. We are making sure that systems are in place to ensure implementation.
In relation to the Ingwonyama land, exemption from burning firebreaks was sought recently, but it has not yet been given. We are going to have to treat them as a landowner. I would like to say to Mr Mohlomi of the same province, who has also given support, that we are very appreciative of that support.
In relation to that, I noted very much Mr Nyakane’s kind words and general support as well. [Interjections.] Sorry, have I mentioned the wrong name? [Interjections.]
Oh, it is Malefane, of course. That was Malefane who has left us; that is right. He is the one who gave us that lovely story about the sun and the moon. I was very pleased with the way he referred to my budget speech. He is from Gauteng, and with regard to Gauteng, one of the great wonders of South Africa that I have uncovered and discovered in this wonderful portfolio is that there are 6,5 million trees in Johannesburg. When the weather satellite goes over Johannesburg, it does not know that it is Johannesburg, but actually recognises a rainforest there, because there are over 6 million trees.
The hon member referred to our programme of planting a tree to heal our nation, through Arbor Week and so on. Yes, with regard to the wonderful heritage of Pretoria city, Cape Town, Bloemfontein, Durban, Port Elizabeth
- all the former white preserves - we are very proud that there is such greenery and internationally it is a great drawcard for South Africa. We must ensure in our democracy that the greenness of these cities with their affluent suburbs tumbles into not only the urban townships, but also into the bleak rural areas. I am really very appreciative of the way in which all the provinces have rallied behind both the Water Week and the Arbor Week. We have created consciousness of water resources, the saving of water and the greening programme, not just for a day or a week, but as an everyday occurrence in our country.
I am very pleased that Mr Combrink is satisfied with the participation in the NCOP and with my officials in the way they dealt with all the problems. Regarding the other inputs from the Eastern Cape from Comrade Jordan, we have dealt with this problem with the province that he has raised on many occasions. The department’s officials have informed me, so I am very well aware of this. They have given plenty of explanations about who is going to pay in terms of damage in relation to the fires. I do believe this is being raised again because the province is so concerned, although they do know the situation. We have spelt out that the landowner will have to pay and this is part of the regulations. It is the landowner who must be responsible.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Minister.
The MINISTER: Thank you. Can I then say thanks very much indeed. [Laughter.] [Applause.] Siyabonga kakhulu - thanks for your support. If the Chairperson could tolerate me for half a minute I would like to say that the last speaker from a wonderful province, the Free State, referred to other elements such as sanitation and the bucket system. I answered a question in the National Assembly about that today. But tomorrow I have the great pleasure and honour of coming to the NCOP at 14:00 to discuss the policy of my budget and I hope the hon members will be here to hear me deal with such issues as sanitation. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The Council adjourned at 20:03. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson:
Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:
Bills passed by National Assembly on 6 June 2001 and transmitted for
concurrence:
(1) Supreme Court Decree, 1990 (Ciskei) Amendment Bill [B 15 - 2001]
(National Assembly - sec 75).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Security and
Constitutional Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
(2) Airports Company Amendment Bill [B 20 - 2001] (National Assembly
- sec 75).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Public
Services of the National Council of Provinces.
(3) Road Accident Fund Amendment Bill [B 21 - 2001] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Public
Services of the National Council of Provinces.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of Vote No 35
- Water Affairs and Forestry and Related Accounts for 1999-2000 and a
Performance Audit of the Project Management of the Community Water
Supply [RP 144-2000].