National Council of Provinces - 28 June 2001
THURSDAY, 28 JUNE 2001 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:04.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICE OF MOTION
Mr L G LEVER: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:
That the Council commends the Scorpions for bringing to book a prominent former legal practitioner, Mr Hoosain Mohamed, on 188 charges of fraud, involving approximately R7 million, from the Road Accident Fund and unsophisticated victims of road accidents.
CHILD PORNOGRAPHY AND CHILD ABUSE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) expresses its deep concern over the latest allegations of child pornography;
(2) notes the raid on the home of a suspected paedophile in Table View, in which shocking photographs and videotapes of explicit child pornography were confiscated;
(3) acknowledges the steps that have already been taken by the Government to protect the interests of the children in our country;
(4) expresses its deep concern that in spite of these steps, child abuse is still continuing at an alarming rate;
(5) commends the South African Police Service for the arrest of the alleged perpetrator and our courts for refusing bail; and
(6) believes that this will send out a clear message to all those involved in child abuse that their conduct is unacceptable and will not be tolerated.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
ELECTION OF PRESIDENT OF KWAZULU-NATAL CRICKET UNION
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Minister, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that the KwaZulu-Natal Cricket Union, provincial affiliate of the United Cricket Board, has elected as its President its first person of colour, Dr Logan Naidoo, a former provincial cricketer and Secretary of the former Natal Cricket Board;
(2) congratulates not only Dr Naidoo on his appointment to the most important position in KwaZulu-Natal Cricket, but also the officials and players of all the clubs for their far-sighted landmark decision which signals to all South Africans that at long last merit has become the accepted norm, not only in the selection of teams but also in the election of top positions in the higher echelons of Administration in the respective codes of sport.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONGRATULATIONS TO DEPUTY PRESIDENT JACOB ZUMA ON HIS APPOINTMENT AS
CHANCELLOR OF THE UNIVERSITY OF ZULULAND
(Draft Resolution)
Umntwana B Z ZULU: Sihlalo, ngiphakamisa lokhu okulandelayo:
Ukuthi le Ndlu -
(1) ibongela uSekela Mongameli uMhlonishwa uJacob Zuma ngokuqokwa kwakhe ukuba abe iShansela leNyuvesi yakwaZulu, oNgoye;
(2) ukukhethelwa kwakhe kulesi sikhundla kungenxa yokwethenjwa kwakhe umkhandlu ophethe le Nyuvesi nokuthi angakwazi ukuyenza ibe sesimweni esingcono kunalesi ekuso njengamanje;
(3) iNyuvesi yakwaZulu lena ibhekene nezinkinga ezinkulu ngakwezezimali. Izakhiwo zayo zidinga ukulungiswa kanti nemiphumela yabafundi ayenelisa neze;
(4) sinethemba elikhulu lokuthi uSekela Mongameli uzokhombisa ikhono lakhe ekuxazululeni lezi zinkinga kanjalo nasekuphakamiseni izinga kanye nokuhlonipheka kwale Nyuvesi. (Translation of Zulu draft resolution follows.)
[Prince B Z ZULU: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) congratulates the Deputy President, Jacob Zuma, on his appointment as the Chancellor of the University of Zululand in Ongoye;
(2) knows that his appointment to this position is the result of the trust the executive committee of this University has in him, particularly the fact that he can improve on what it is at the moment;
(3) notes that the University of Zululand is facing a serious financial crisis, buildings need to be fixed and the results of students are not satisfactory; and
(4) hopes greatly that the Deputy President will show his talent in solving these problems and uplift the level of recognition of this University.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Is there any objection to the motion?
Mr C ACKERMANN: Chairperson, there was no interpretation of the motion, so some of us have no idea what the hon member has moved.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Is that supposed to be an objection?
Mr C ACKERMANN: I do not want to object if it is a good motion, Chairperson. The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Is there any objection? There is an objection. In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.
RACIST PRACTICES BY WHITES AND DEATH OF BLACK MAN IN CARLETONVILLE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr R M NYAKANE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with great dismay that some whites’ propensity in racist practices, despite the Government’s efforts to eradicate this monster, leaves much to be desired;
(2) notes that the dispute between a black man and two whites over a parking space in Carletonville on 26 June 2001 ended with the death of the black man when assaulted by the two whites; and
(3) is of the view that the law should take its course in this matter and that the heaviest punitive measures should be employed to portray the gravity of this offence.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
PROPOSALS TO CATER FOR ANC ARRANGEMENTS IN FREE STATE
(Draft Resolution)
Ms C BOTHA: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) seriously considers instituting a feasibility study into the creation of a dedicated shuttle between Bloemfontein and Cape Town, so that the ANC can be relieved of the involved mathematical calculations of working out which Free State members have had a turn at being in Cape Town, or at being an MEC or not being an MEC; and
(2) alternatively, requests funds for a Free State transit house at Gariepdam, where members can stay over to work out who should be passing the buck to whom, or whether to move Parliament to Bloemfontein and allocate positions by drawing lots.
[Laughter.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Any objections? [Laughter.] In the light of objections, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will become notice of a motion.
REPORTS OF SEX FOR LIFTS TO SCHOOL
(Draft Resolution)
Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) expresses its shock and dismay at girls who give sex for lifts to and from school;
(2) requests the relevant departments to act swiftly against taxi drivers and taxi owners who perpetrate such immoral acts in our motherland; and
(3) calls upon schools, parents and religious groups to act likewise.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Is there any objection to the motion?
Mr T S SETONA: Chairperson, I want to move as an amendment:
That, in paragraph (1), after school'', be added, as alleged in
newspaper reports’’.
We have not made any investigation to verify the validity of the report
which appeared in today’s papers.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Rev Chabaku, are you agreeable to the proposed amendment?
Rev M CHABAKU: I concur unreservedly, Chairperson. [Interjections.]
Amendment agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Motion, as amended, agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution, namely:
That the Council -
(1) expresses its shock and dismay at girls who give sex for lifts to and from school, as alleged in newspaper reports;
(2) requests the relevant departments to act swiftly against taxi drivers and taxi owners who perpetrate such immoral acts in our motherland; and
(3) calls upon schools, parents and religious groups to act likewise.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Consideration of Votes of and Schedule to Bill)
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Allow me to take this opportunity to welcome the hon the Minister and the two Deputy Ministers to the House.
I have just been informed that a few questions are going to be asked of the Ministers and Deputy Ministers, as they appear on the schedule. Members will now have the opportunity to ask responsible Ministers questions regarding their Votes. In as far as declarations of vote are concerned, they will be made during the time when Votes are put, and I will indicate to members when that time arrives.
Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, on a point of order: I think that hon members are disadvantaged by the fact that they do not have the programme in front of them.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon members, we all knew what we were coming to do. We are expected to be ready and prepared, and to know exactly what we actually want to say. [Interjections.] I know, for instance, that hon member Matthee indicated that he wanted to ask the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development a question on Vote No 22. He is free to do so.
Vote No 22 - Justice and Constitutional Development:
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, could I just ask the Deputy Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development whether the shortage as far as personnel in the department are concerned is being addressed; and, more specifically, whether the shortage of prosecutors that we heard about during our deliberations in the committee with the National Director of Public Prosecutions is being addressed in this budget, so that we can know whether these shortages, which apparently were already identified two years ago, will now be addressed during the course of this year? Also, where are they provided for in the budget?
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, thank you very much for the question. It is a little more complex than the member indicates. Budget reform has been the objective of our Ministry for the last two years. Indeed, he is quite right, we have far too many unfunded posts in both the magistracy and the prosecution. The fact is that the posts are there and they are unfunded.
In March next year, with the appointment of our new CFO, we will produce the first zero-based budget in Justice history. We will actually have a far greater sense of the core cost of the budget for Justice and where the money should be spent in terms of prioritisation. In the National Assembly earlier this month, the Minister set, as a target, the filling of posts of judges, magistrates and prosecutors.
There is an added complication. The prosecutor is under pressure because, in fact, magistrates and prosecutors have the same qualifications, but they have different earning levels. What happens is that the attrition into the magistracy from the prosecution is huge. Sometimes there are 60 posts vacated at the end of the month.
With our undertaking with the judges and magistrates at the colloquium, we undertook to review the entire scale of judicial officers and people associated with courts who deliver core service at our points of delivery, and that is where, of course, justice will be judged. It is the intention of the Minister in the current budget to reprioritise. We will be speaking to the Treasury about moving funds. Obviously, we have scope within the Public Finance Management Act to move, I think it is 8% from programme to programme, but we might need to make really big adjustments.
The problem is that we have been developing a management information system, and it has taken us a long time. We feel that there is a real sense that we are getting somewhere with budget reform. We have a management information system that will tell us how we are spending our money, and whether it is being spent appropriately and in the places that require it most. We need to move our money to service delivery and away from the huge administrative structures that we have.
We have the information and the new CEO, who has engendered an enormous amount of confidence with our management, because the decisions that they are making now are not based on what they think, but in fact on what they know.
The filling of prosecutors’ and magistrates’ posts is a priority set by the Minister, and we fully intend to do this. We will also be able to provide Treasury with new information, so that in the future, when they look at our budget, they will actually be able to get a much clearer picture of what justice does. Also, until our public accounts hearing becomes the kind of hearing that tells us whether we are spending our money properly, the actual management of the money, it will be very difficult to motivate to Treasury for more money.
This is a process that has been on for two years and we really have a sense that we are getting there. We will have a zero-based budget, and we will have managers empowered by information that will make them able to answer the questions that they will have to answer and deliver in areas where they have to deliver.
We are getting a much clearer picture. For instance, we are finding areas in which we are spending money that could definitely move away from those areas to the core services of what we do, and we will be judged by the people who actually interface with us in the courts. We are confident that this will happen. Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I would like to thank the Deputy Minister and I really appreciate her answer. Would I be correct in saying that this time next year, it will not be necessary for us to again hear complaints from the National Director of Public Prosecutions that there is a shortage of prosecutors, and that is one of their biggest problems as far as addressing the backlog of cases is concerned? Can we assume that next year this time, that problem will have been solved?
The DEPUTY MINISTER: Chairperson, that is an incorrect assumption. This is an incremental process. There are a couple of hundred, I am not entirely sure of the figures, but I have seen them recently. The point is that if we had to do that kind of movement, it might well compromise something else.
This is an incremental process but it is a priority. We will do this with an absolute single-mindedness. The Minister has instructed the department to act and behave accordingly. We cannot do it in one step. It would actually compromise the justice system elsewhere.
There are general shortages, but we also need to look at areas where courts are overstaffed. It just needs a mechanical movement of people, but this is where our information system is going to provide us with information. We are going to get costings on individual court centres and service provision points. We are going to have that information and we will be empowered for the first time to make decisions that will assist us in the administration of justice. I can assure the member that the Minister has made this a priority, and he will probably ask for monthly reports on it at his meetings.
Vote No 23 - Safety and Security:
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I would like to ask the Deputy Minister whether a needs assessment was done by the Department of Safety and Security on this budget. Furthermore, what is the situation as far as this needs assessment is concerned? In other words, what is the position as far as personnel are concerned? If there is a shortage, what is the shortage? We all hear about staff shortages in the Police Service. What about vehicles and other equipment? Are these shortages being addressed in this budget? Could the Deputy Minister please indicate this information to us?
Furthermore, has this budget been drawn up with specific goals in mind? Could the Minister, as cluster head, indicate what the Department of Safety and Security intends doing about the unacceptably high levels of crime? Do we have specific targets linked to timeframes and has this budget been drawn up with that in mind?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Chairperson, first of all I would like to remind the House that not so long ago, in answer to the hon member, I provided a complete list of shortages in the various categories in the SAPS. That was tabled in the House because it was very long. I hope that the member remembers this.
First of all I would say that in the last few years - we thought it would take us seven years - we have been trying to organise the budget in such a way that we move from the situation where 84% of the budget is on personnel and only 16% on operational costs. Our objective has been to move to the position which we have reached today, where personnel constitutes 74% of the budget and we have 26% which we can devote to operational costs. This is the first point I want to make. Generally speaking, we are endeavouring to ensure that the budget is devoted to the actual operational cost of the fight against crime rather than having a lot of the money paying personnel salaries and so forth. We think we are achieving that objective.
I would also say for example, that, we had a very great shortage of vehicles, especially vehicles which were serviceable. We have been able to bridge the gap so that we now have approximately 35 000 vehicles where as we had 32 000 vehicles before. In this budget there is provision for further purchases of vehicles, not only aimed at improving our fleet and the way it is maintained, but also dealing with the vexed question of the redistribution of resources.
As members are aware, when we took over this portfolio, 86% of the resources were devoted to protecting white areas and 14% devoted to protecting the rest of the country.
This called for a very big redistribution of resources without - and we must stress this - thereby sacrificing the need to protect every element of our society. In other words, we were not going to say: Oh well, let us move the resources to other sections of the population, which would then leave the way open for criminals to attack, which they are doing, white suburbs and so on. But we had in mind that we must have a balanced approach with regard to this question of redistribution.
We discovered for example, that Umlazi, which is a huge township, had something like two vehicles, and Kwa-Mashu 58. One could not explain why Kwa-Mashu should have 58 vehicles and another township only two or three. So, as I say, this requires that we should redistribute the vehicles, increase the fleet and make sure, which we now can, where the vehicles are.
Previously we had 32 vehicles, but if someone had asked me where they were, because we did not have computers and so on, we were not in a position to indicate exactly where a particular vehicle was, who was driving it and what it was doing. We are now in a the position to do that. That leads me straight to the issue of technology. [Time expired.]
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, can the hon the Minister tell us how many new recruits have been budgeted for in this budget? Just from hearing figures, one thinks of the Western Cape, for instance, where there is apparently a 25% shortage in personnel, and we are looking at a situation where police and detectives deal with an average of over 500 dockets each, which is an impossible task. I just want to know what has been budgeted and whether we have a specific number as far as personnel, the policemen and policewomen are concerned?
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Chairperson, this gives me the opportunity to remind the House about our detective academy. We have been able to establish, for the first time in our country, a detective academy, which is run in co-operation with the FBI of the United States. This detective academy is now turning out highly trained detectives.
I do not know if hon members have noticed, when we have these appearances on TV and so on, that some young, very bright-looking people are in control of the crime scenes. These are some of the new detectives that are making up what was a great shortfall in our country, in which 80% of our detectives were untrained. That really is the crux of the matter being raised by the hon member.
It is obviously absurd to have a detective handling 80 - actually the figure was 80, not 500 files. There is an average of 80 files being handled by some detectives. And we reorganised the service.
As hon members know, with regard to the abolition of special units and so on, and then the emergence of the new detective force and the Scorpions, we have now reached a situation where really, it is not what was common talk a few years ago. Of course life tends to go much faster than the perceptions.
I can assure the hon member that actually when it comes to the required personnel, we have made a tremendous amount of progress. Last year we had 1 200 new recruits - that is apart from the detectives - and these are coming out now because our courses now are not six months, they are 12 months at a time.
I do not think that we have gone over the shortage of personnel. We have not. We have about 127 000 police in this country for 40 million people. I know Great Britain has 130 000 for 60 million people. But then they are real police. They are a highly trained police. This is what we are trying to do: to ensure that the quality of the police is such that we are not relying just on numbers, but on people who are competent.
Vote No 1 - Presidency - put.
Declarations of vote:
Mr P A MATTHEE: Mr Chairperson, the discussion of Budget Votes obliges the Executive, led by the President and the Deputy President, to give account to Parliament. Parliament must pass judgment, not just on what is promised for the future, but on what has actually been achieved. It should be noted that according to a survey released only a few days ago, the percentage of South Africans who are optimistic about the future has dropped dramatically. Clearly, the Government of the day, because of its inability to deal effectively with the burning issues of concern, such as rampant crime, lack of job creation, corruption and nondelivery, must take the blame for this.
Die presidensie maak wel vordering ten opsigte van sy operasionele werking. Die Parlement sal egter uiters waaksaam moet bly om toe te sien dat die neiging gestuit word om die rol van die uitvoerende gesag ten koste van dié van die Parlement oormatig te versterk.
Tydens sy onlangse besoek aan die Verenigde Koninkryk en die Verenigde State van Amerika het President Mbeki Suid-Afrika se aansien in die buiteland versterk.
Ongelukkig, ten spyte van ander positiewe aspekte van die werk van die presidensie, is dit as gevolg van die probleme wat ek uitgelig het nie vir ons moontlik om dié begrotingspos te steun nie. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[The Presidency is making progress in respect of its operational function. Parliament will, however, have to remain extremely vigilant in order to inhibit a tendency to overamplify the role of the executive authority at the expense of that of Parliament. During his recent visit to the United Kingdom and the United States of America, President Mbeki fortified South Africa’s image abroad.
Unfortunately, despite other positive aspects of the Presidency’s activities, it is impossible for us to support this Vote owing to the problems I have singled out.]
Ms Q D MAHLANGU: Mr Chairperson, the ANC supports Budget Vote No 1 unconditionally because the leadership at the top - the President, the Deputy President and the Ministry in the Presidency - is a leadership with vision. I think there is no sane person in South Africa who would not support and attest to what I am saying.
Under President Mbeki’s leadership, the Cabinet has been clustered into different committees in an integrated way, which will enable South Africa generally and the Cabinet in particular to discuss and implement delivery programmes in a more integrated way.
The Deputy President recently led a delegation to Colombia, Mexico and other countries. One of the delegates’ main concerns was to discuss, with their counterparts in those countries, how to reduce the high levels of crime in South Africa, drug trafficking and other matters.
From the responses to questions answered by the Deputy President in the National Assembly, we saw that this visit had positive spin-offs. It is important that we support such initiatives.
The International Investment Council, as announced by the President last year in his state-of-the-nation address, has been established. Though it is still much too early to judge what it has achieved, this is another initiative that shows that the President is concerned about the low investment in the country.
In his state-of-the-nation address this year, the President announced the establishment of an information technology committee. This is under way or has been established. This is one of the ways, means and measures to bridge the digital divide between rich countries and Third World countries.
Under the leadership of the Presidency, the Millennium Africa Recovery Programme has been initiated in collaboration with the presidents of Nigeria and Algeria. Many countries on the continent have reached consensus on the programme and support it. This indicates that the President is concerned not only about problems in South Africa or concerning ourselves, but about the continent as a whole.
President Thabo Mbeki also initiated the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy and the Urban Renewal Strategy. Towns like Alexandra, KwaMashu, Mdantsane, Botshabelo and Katlehong benefit from this.
The ANC supports this Budget Vote. [Time expired.]
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson …
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Is that an objection from the IFP?
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, it is not an objection, it is a declaration.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): A declaration of vote?
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Yes, Chairperson. The IFP supports the Budget Vote, but we must declare something.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): There was no indication that the IFP would want to make a declaration of vote, but we can allow you to do that.
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I did give notice.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): It was not indicated to me, but you can do so.
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, the IFP expresses its concern about the underfunding in this department, which impedes the process of good governance.
The IFP, despite this declaration, supports the Budget Vote.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party and New National Party dissenting).
Vote No 2 - Parliament - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 3 - Foreign Affairs - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 4 - Home Affairs - put.
Declarations of vote:
Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, I am sorry that we are opposing this Budget Vote, because I have to say that I have the highest personal esteem for the Minister, who is a great gentleman and highly respected.
However, the impact on our society of the brain drain outwards, which has accelerated, and the brain gain inwards, which has slowed down, is one of the greatest single reasons for the underperformance of the South African economy. This double whammy needs to be addressed satisfactorily and quickly if we wish to cauterise this gaping self-inflicted wound in our society.
Earlier today the findings of the research funded by the UK’s Economic and Social Research Council, conducted by the University of Cape Town and the University of London, were published according to today’s Business Day. Six areas of specific concern were raised, including I will quote only one - ``an arbitrary and `obstructive’ immigration and work permit system’’. That is the finding of this particular study. Any of us who have been involved with constituency work would have had to endure this obstruction. I do not want to go over the boring statistics. They are well known. I have mentioned them before in this House. The official total figure from 1998 to 2000 of people leaving is something like 16 000 highly skilled people, and the brain gain of skilled people coming in is about a quarter of what it was in 1998. In fact, we know these figures are hopelessly out, because our people leaving do not tell the immigration authorities in South Africa why they are leaving, and our statistics department cannot pick up the real figures.
At present, we have a shortage estimated to be between 300 000 and 500 000 managers, and our education system is simply not delivering fast enough. This double whammy is costing us goodwill, investment, employment, jobs and standards of health and education, and is accelerating the capital outflow. Although, of course, the Minister and his department cannot be blamed for many of the underlying circumstances, his department has effectively obstructed the flow of skills and immigration to South Africa. We therefore oppose this Vote. Ms Q D MAHLANGU: Chairperson, I am presenting this declaration on behalf of the chair of the select committee, who is not around. Comrades and friends, I rise on behalf of the ANC …
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, can you use another microphone, because it seems that that one is not very clear.
Ms Q D MAHLANGU: But, Chairperson, this microphone was working a few minutes ago. [Interjections.]
Chairperson, as I was saying, I am rising on behalf of the chair of the Select Committee on Social Services. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order, hon members!
Ms Q D MAHLANGU: But it is not my fault that the microphone is not working.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Hon member, can you try another microphone?
Ms Q D MAHLANGU: Chairperson, as I was saying, I rise on behalf of the chairperson on the Select Committee on Social Services to present this declaration. Comrades and friends, I rise on behalf of the ANC to support the Home Affairs Budget Vote. I urge everyone who believes in taking forward the transformation process of our country to vote for this Budget Vote without reservation.
There are various issues that the Government has to deal with in undoing the damage done by the long years of apartheid destruction. The department has the huge task of ensuring that identity and South African citizenship remain intact.
There are a few issues that I want to raise, among the issues that the Department of Home Affairs deals with. These are the issue of migration control, the control system at our border posts, the issue of transformation within the Department of Home Affairs, and the implementation of the Batho Pele principle.
We believe, as the ANC, that with the resources allocated to this department, they will be able to execute their duties as per their programmes. Therefore the ANC supports the Budget Vote.
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson and the House, although the IFP supports the Vote, we must make some declarations on Vote No 4: Home Affairs.
The IFP declares that the department is extremely underfunded and yet it is expected to do good work, which is very difficult to perform with such financial constraints. The IFP supports the Vote, but feels that something must be done to rectify the financial underfunding of this department. It is extremely underfunded.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! There is a big problem with the sound. Maybe those who objected when we said we wanted to refurbish the NCOP will understand why we insisted on refurbishing it. [Laughter.]
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party, New National Party and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).
Vote No 5 - Provincial and Local Government - put.
Ms C BOTHA: Chairperson, we are unable to hear what people are saying. We would be better off if we switched the whole system off.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I did not even hear what you were saying, hon member. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]
Ms C BOTHA: That is what I am talking about.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Could the Table get a report on the situation? We cannot continue like this. [Interjections.]
Order! Can the UDM try to give their declaration of vote? Maybe they will be lucky. [Interjections.]
Maybe we should take a five-minute adjournment so that this thing can be attended to. We will adjourn for five minutes.
Business suspended at 14:51 and resumed at 15:17.
Declarations of vote:
Mr R M NYAKANE: Chairperson, the UDM votes in favour of this Budget Vote and wishes to put on record the following observations for consideration by the Minister and this House. The financial viability of many municipalities has been brought into question, especially in rural areas, and this is exacerbated by the culture of nonpayment in many areas.
The delivery of basic services is implemented at the local level, and it is often here that success or failure occurs. In the light of Government’s constitutional obligation to deliver this basic service free of charge to the poor, as well as commitments for the provision of water and electricity to all, it is vital that capacity and expertise be developed at local level to ensure the successful delivery of these services. We vote in favour of this Vote.
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson …
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): I did not check with the IFP. Just indicate your intentions to me, because I was not warned in advance. Please make your declaration.
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Thank you, Chairperson. The IFP has this declaration to make. Unfulfilled promises to settle the traditional leaders’ concerns are putting problems in the way of the effective implementation of the policy. Instead, unnecessary barriers to co-operative governance hinder work performance. Though the IFP supports the Budget Vote, we have these concerns, and the sooner they are settled, the better.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party and New National Party dissenting).
Vote No 6 - Government Communication and Information System - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party and New National Party dissenting).
An HON MEMBER: Chairperson, we still have a problem with the sound system.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): We will attend to that when we come to it.
Vote No 7 - National Treasury - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I think we will have to go to Committee Room E249. [Interjections.] I am told that we should go to the Old Assembly Chamber.
Business suspended at 15:20 and resumed at 15:35.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon members, I will allow you to address the House seated. You do not have to stand up when addressing the Council here in Committee Room E249. I am not used to this chair and the microphone is far away. I do not know whether I can bring it nearer.
Vote No 8 - Public Enterprises - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party and New National Party dissenting).
Vote No 9 - Public Service and Administration - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 10 - Public Service Commission - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 11 - SA Management Development Institute - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 12 - Statistics South Africa - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 13 - Arts, Culture, Science and Technology - put.
Declarations of vote:
Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, alhoewel die Department van Kuns, Kultuur, Wetenskap en Tegnologie alles in hul vermoë doen om hul mandaat tot uitvoer te bring, is daar egter ‘n paar aspekte wat ons teleurstel. Ongelukkig … [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, although the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology is doing everything in its power to realise its mandate, there are, however, a few aspects that disappoint us. Unfortunately … [Interjections.]]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! What is wrong, hon members?
An HON MEMBER: There is no interpretation and we do not understand Afrikaans. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Well, unfortunately, members did not bring their listening devices along. [Interjections.] Order! Can we proceed? We have all official languages in this Council.
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, in order to accommodate members I will address the House in English. I cannot do so in the other indigenous languages, though.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon members, there is a lot of conversation in the House.
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, although the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology really performs in specific areas, we do not have time to discuss these in detail today. But I am sure that when we debate the budget when we come back, we will talk about these in depth. Until now we have not had the opportunity to do so.
But there are two aspects that really concern us. The first is that the department has failed to comply with the Act in appointing a PanSALB board. After seven years it has failed to comply with the constitutional demands that we should have a language policy and Bill. These are still not in place.
As I said, there are many positive aspects about the department’s activities, but these two and the others which we will discuss later on make it very difficult for us to support this Vote.
Mr D M KGWARE: Chairperson, the ANC supports Budget Vote No 13. I also want to indicate that, as we know, arts and culture are actually close to our hearts, all of us, irrespective of whether we come from different political persuasions. The fact remains that the department is now engaging in a process in which we need to transform society and we are aware that a number of Bills are coming up. We are grappling with that.
We will see as we go on in the process that there are a number of activities that we have to deal with, all of us. They involve almost all the departments. Cultural activities have a treasured place in our hearts and we want to express appreciation at what the department has done up to now. The Budget Vote will enable us to continue with the forthcoming programmes. With this, we support the Vote enthusiastically.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party and New National Party dissenting).
Vote No 14 - Education - put.
Declarations of vote: Mev J WITBOOI: Voorsitter, die NNP wil hiermee die volgende stemverklaring doen. Op grond van ons bruto binnelandse produk bestee Suid-Afrika meer aan onderwys, dit is omtrent 6,9%, as die meeste lande ter wêreld.
Tog word dié inset nie in die uitslag weerspieël nie. Dit is onrusbarend dat daar, ná 12 lange jare op skool, steeds 43% van ons leerders is wat nie in hul matriekjaar die slaagsyfer kan behaal nie.
Daar is ook nog te veel skole wat nie die nodige geriewe het nie. Dit, en onder meer die feit dat daar in ons land omtrent 85 000 ondergekwalifiseerde onderwysers in ons totale onderwyskorps is, veroorsaak dat gehalte onderrig steeds ontbreek.
Dit is vir die Nuwe NP baie moeilik om dié begrotingspos te steun. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mrs J WITBOOI: Chairperson, the New NP would like to make the following declaration of vote. Based on our gross domestic product, South Africa is spending more on education, about 6,9%, than most countries in the world.
Yet this input is not reflected in the results. It is disconcerting that, after 12 long years at school, 43% of our learners are still unable to obtain pass marks in their matric year.
There are also far too many schools in want of the necessary facilities. This, and among others the fact that our country has about 85 000 underqualified teachers in our total teachers corps, is what gives rise to the deficiency in quality education.
It is very difficult for the New NP to support this Vote.]
Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, in answer to a recent question on the Question Paper of the NCOP that dealt with the exodus of South African teachers from South Africa and whether he was taking any steps in this regard, the Minister replied, inter alia, that, firstly, 68 Cuban teachers would come and assist with teacher training in South Africa; secondly, he was preparing a bilateral agreement with his counterpart in the UK, Minister Blunkett, to limit and prescribe the employment of South African teachers in the UK; and lastly, he was looking, with the Minister of Labour, at the rights of people to advertise for and recruit skilled people in South Africa.
Thus he wishes to take a step in a direction which is tantamount to creating a closed society by inhibiting the rights and freedom of South Africans to work where they like. We too deplore people leaving our country permanently, and discourage them from doing so, but there are often good reasons for leaving, ie retrenchment or inability to find work in South Africa.
We believe, however, that any attempt at cutting off South Africans’ right to move and work where they wish will be found to be not only wrong and unfair, but also an infringement of their constitutional rights, let alone the morality of interfering in the internal affairs of a friendly country. This kind of statement also has the unintended effect of accelerating the exodus, as people think,’’ I had better go while I can.’’
We respectfully request the Minister to desist from this kind of thing. Let us create conditions in our country that make people want to stay in the land of their birth. That includes maintaining and improving standards of education for all our people. After a calamitous start by the hon Minister Bhengu, we are not at all satisfied that sufficient progress is being made and we therefore vote against this Vote.
Mr N M RAJU: Mr Chairperson, hon delegates, let us for a moment move back and survey the educational landscape. If one is to adopt a fair and nonpartisan stance, one is faced with bleakness, and darkness casts a pall over the hills. On the ground, in many schools in the rural areas, there are no toilets. If there are, they are invariably not working. There are no desks or chalkboards in some classrooms, there are not enough teachers, there is no electricity, and, more importantly for me, there are no playing fields.
If we then turn our gaze to some of the urban schools, an equally depressing scenario unfolds: indiscipline among teachers and pupils, a lack of libraries and/or science laboratories. Worse still, one is faced with frightened and scarred young schoolgirls who have been victims of either sexual abuse or sexual violence and also frightened by the scourge of HIV/Aids which is continuing to take its inexorable toll on young people, the very flowers of our society.
So, on the ground, despite all the grandiose plans and strategies of the Education Ministry, under, we concede, a hard-working and industrious Minister, the lack of adequate delivery dictates that the DP has second thoughts about supporting the Budget Vote. We do not support the Vote.
Mr D M KGWARE: Mr Chairperson, the ANC supports Vote No 14, an Education budget that reaches every ventricle of South Africa’s schooling system, namely the areas of primary, secondary, higher and adult learning. Our unanimously held view is that this budget not only increases the momentum of transformation, but also addresses the moral fibre and lack of the unity of purpose that we, as a nation, need to succeed.
Special cognisance must be taken of the fact that we are now in our third period of education reform. Whereas the first and second phases emphasised the need for the creation of a framework for transformation, greater accountability and delivery, we have now shifted gear towards the attainment of greater equity and quality of learning. However, we still have a long way to go in achieving the required levels of equity in our schooling system.
This budget has met all the requirements and expectations of an education sector in transition. Some of the programmes, like school effectiveness and educator professionalism, school safety and the further development of school governing bodies, are indeed pioneering work done by the Department of Education. It is therefore against this backdrop of unequalled commitment that we, in the spirit of Tirisano, support the budget in unison.
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Mr Chairperson, the IFP, although supporting the Budget Vote, feels that the implementation of the policy at provincial level means that 90% of the budget goes to personnel, leaving only 10% for other departmental needs. The IFP is very concerned about this, but we support the Budget Vote.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party, New National Party and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).
Ms J L KGOALI: Mr Chairperson, we are making this appeal through you. Considering the problem that we are faced with here, namely that we do not have an interpreting mechanism to help us understand what the other parties are saying, can we, for the sake of the proceedings here today, all speak the language that we all understand? We want to understand what the other hon members are saying. The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Hon member, I leave it to hon members. I do not want to make a ruling, because anybody is allowed to speak any language. I therefore do not want to make that ruling. If there is no translation and hon members feel we cannot proceed, we will adjourn.
That is the only option. I will leave it to members themselves. This is hon members’ House, I do not want to make any rulings on this matter.
Vote No 15 - Health - put.
Declarations of vote:
Dr P J C NEL: Meneer die Voorsitter, alhoewel die Nuwe NP waardering het vir sekere programme soos byvoorbeeld die primêre gesondheidsorgprogram waarmee daar ‘n taamlike mate van sukses behaal is, het ons ernstige bedenkinge oor ‘n aantal ander aspekte.
Die onderbefondsing van gesondheidsdienste en die swak bestuur van geld wat wel toegeken word, gee aanleiding tot die agteruitgang en verval van die departement se infrastruktuur, die veroudering en agteruitgang van toerusting wat nie vervang of herstel kan word nie, die verlies van kundige mediese personeel uit die stelsel as gevolg van swak salarisse en werksomstandighede, die onvermoë om uitstaande skuld in te vorder, en die onvermoë om die verlies van medisyne en toerusting as gevolg van diefstal die hoof te bied, om maar ‘n paar aspekte te noem. Dit is onverskoonbaar.
Dit alles het tot die byna totale ineenstorting van die lewering van gesondheidsdienste in sommige staatshospitale aanleiding gegee. In Gauteng het ‘n oudit van staatshospitale onlangs bevind dat 94% van die geouditeerde hospitale op die rand van ineenstorting staan.
Die Nuwe NP is bekommerd oor die onvermoë van die Regering om ‘n ferm greep te kry op die MIV/vigs-probleem, die ergste epidemie in menseheugenis in die Republiek van Suid-Afrika. Ons is ook bekommerd oor die versuim en weiering om van die bestaande antiretrovirale middels gebruik te maak in die behandeling van MIV/vigs. Ek moes gister verneem dat die protokoldokument oor moeder-tot-kind oordrag wat ek aangevra het, nog nie gefinaliseer is nie. Dit is totaal en al onaanvaarbaar.
Ons moes vanoggend via die media verneem dat ons agb President in Washington, waar hy hom tans bevind, in antwoord op ‘n vraag wat aan hom gestel is, gesê het hy weet nie of die MI-virus vigs veroorsaak nie, maar dat sy siening oor vigs nie relevant vir die Regering se benadering tot die MIV/vigs-probleem is nie. Dit stuur ‘n verwarrende boodskap aan ons mense en die res van die wêreld. Dit is onaanvaarbaar en betreurenswaardig.
Weens bogenoemde redes kan die Nuwe NP nie die Begrotingspos oor Gesondheid steun nie. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Dr P J C NEL: Mr Chairperson, although the New NP has appreciation for certain programmes, such as, for example, the primary health programme with which a great deal of success has been attained, we have serious doubts about a number of other aspects.
The underfunding of health services and the poor management of money which has been allocated, give rise to the deterioration and decline of the department’s infrastructure, the dating and deterioration of equipment which cannot be replaced or repaired, the loss of expert medical staff out of the system as a result of unattractive salaries and poor working conditions, and the inability to recover outstanding debt as well as the inability to stem the loss of medicines and equipment as a result of theft, to mention but a few aspects. This is inexcusable.
All this has led to the almost total collapse of the delivery of health services in certain state hospitals. In Gauteng an audit of state hospitals found that 94% of the audited hospitals were on the brink of collapse.
The New NP is concerned about the inability of the Government to take a firm grasp on the HIV/Aids problem, the worst epidemic in living memory in the Republic of South Africa. We are also concerned about the failure and refusal to use the existing antiretrovirals in the treatment of HIV/Aids. Yesterday I learnt that the protocol document on mother-to-child infection which I have asked for has not yet been finalised. This is totally unacceptable.
This morning we heard via the media that our hon President had said in Washington, where he is currently visiting, in reply to a question put to him that he was not sure whether HIV causes Aids, but that his opinion regarding Aids was not relevant to the Government’s approach to the HIV/Aids problem. This sends a confusing message to our people and the rest of the world. This is unacceptable and deplorable.
Owing to the above-mentioned reasons the New NP cannot support this Health Vote. [Time expired.]]
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I am prepared to translate if that is necessary for anybody. [Interjections.]
Mr K D S DURR: Mr Chairman, statistics SA estimates that the life expectancy in 1996 in South Africa was 52,1 years for men and 61,6 years for women. The Medical Research Council estimates that, as a result of the Aids epidemic, life expectancy has already dropped from 63 years in 1990 to 57 years in the year 2000. It is expected to drop to about 40 years by 2010, bringing it to amongst the lowest in the world.
This is the litmus test for this department. The relative success or failure of this department can, statistically, be measured absolutely accurately and its relative success or failure can be precisely measured by the demographics of life expectancy. What has been the response of Government? They go into denial - so much so that even the New York Herald Tribune says that the actions of our Government on Aids may have condemned millions to death in South Africa. We therefore have no option but to oppose this Budget Vote.
Ms S N NTLABATI: Chairperson, as a Methodist I would sing ``Hallelujah’’ if singing were allowed in praise of this Vote in this House. [Interjections.]
The document is in line with our documents, the original being the ANC health plan which was taken from the Freedom Charter. When we came in as the ANC - I must tell the House - we were not empty-headed. We had a plan and we are still on track with our plan. It is useless to oppose something when you have no plan and never had a plan. [Laughter.]
Ninety per cent of this national Health budget is directly allocated to provinces, reaffirming our inclination to help the poor. The transformation agenda is still on track. Regarding HIV/Aids, financial provision is there to develop and strengthen HIV/Aids and STD programmes. We shall not implement the programmes following the agenda of somebody else. The agenda of the ANC will be followed.
Immunisation programmes are in place. What else is wanted? The ANC is pleased to note that the Health budget places an emphasis on quality of health care. The Bill of Patients’ Rights is there, so what is next? We shall be transforming training in health services, training people with Africa in mind. We will not be Eurocentric in our training.
We anticipate positive outcomes in the department through the implementation of the Medicines and Related Substances Control Amendment Bill. Hon members should remember that we overcame the case, and the truth set us free. Again, for all of these reasons, the ANC is morally bound and bound by the facts to support this Vote. I close by saying that it is still necessary that we look at the role poverty still plays in accelerating this scourge. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party, New National Party and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).
Vote No 16 - Housing - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 17 - Social Development - put.
Declarations of Vote:
Mrs J WITBOOI: Chairperson, the budget allocation for social services has fallen from 48,5% of the consolidated expenditure to 46,7% in the year 2001- 02.
The Minister of Finance announced an increase in old age pensions from R540 to R570, despite his assurances that grant increases would be inflation- linked. And, according to Minister Manuel, additional money for poverty alleviation would come from the National Development Agency, the lottery and the Umsobomvu Fund. The money in the Umsobomvu Fund, created as a result of the demutualisation of Sanlam and Old Mutual, which was announced in his 1998-99 Budget Speech, has still not been spent.
The New NP’s greatest concern is the glaring gap in social assistance to the poorest and most vulnerable people in South Africa. Therefore, the New NP cannot support the Budget Vote.
Mr B WILLEM: Chairperson, the ANC supports Budget Vote No 17 - Social Development.
Social development is one of those areas on which we, as the ANC, have always focused a great deal of our attention, because we believe that eradicating poverty is the key to empowering our people economically, socially and politically. Eliminating the unequal power relations still existing between the haves and the have-nots is one of the enormous physical challenges still facing this department.
The ANC salutes the Minister of Social Development for setting the precedent of a hands-on approach to alleviating the scourge of poverty and improving the dignity of poor people in our communities through his investigations and imbizos in the provinces. He has helped to direct the department in the efficient delivery of services to those communities where they are most needed and towards unblocking poor service delivery areas. This means, for example, that payment contractors who fail to deliver on grant payments will either have to improve or find themselves out of contracts.
Poverty alleviation programmes have also received attention through their failure to deliver to the poorest of the poor. Here the ANC, in this committee, is committed both to supporting the Minister in identifying those communities with needs in all nine provinces and to assisting in distributing the funds where they are needed. We are convinced that with this concerted effort, there will no longer be a community without food. Again, the ANC supports this Vote. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party and New National party dissenting).
Vote No 18 - Sport and Recreation South Africa - put.
Declarations of vote:
Mr N M RAJU: Mr Chairperson, notwithstanding the noble intentions of Minister Balfour, the good Minister has shown a disturbing tendency to trespass on the autonomous terrain of sports organisations.
What we need in South African sport is less Government interference and more unfettered space for those constituencies that comprise our sporting fraternity. My party wishes to withhold its support for the Sport and Recreation Vote.
Mr D M KGWARE: Mr Chairperson, I rise here to declare my unconditional support for the Sport and Recreation Budget Vote. The critical objective of this Budget Vote is to ensure universal access to sporting opportunities and ultimately the eradication of every discriminatory hindrance in the way of aspirant sportspeople. At present, we are still faced with the enormous inequities brought about by our divided past. The Budget Vote seeks to help end these inequalities that manifest themselves in every black township and leafy suburb in this country.
Over the past few years, we have seen the emergence of highly skilled and competent administrators and athletes who can hold their own against the best in the world. These and other achievements are, certainly, some of the highlights of the Budget Votes, and were only possible through the enormous efforts of the Department of Sport and Recreation. We also endorse the censure, by the Minister, of certain national federations that, to put it mildly, are refusing to come to the nonracial sports party.
The South African Boxing Bill and the South African Sports Commission Bill have both gone through this House, and there is also the formal lifting of the ban on female boxing. The latter, as envisaged, points to a smaller and more manageable sports structure. Moreover, both pieces of legislation will bring us into line with international practices.
The ANC will continue to champion the cause of a nonracial, nonsexist and democratic sporting arena and red-card those who continue to be offside. Again, we support the Vote.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party and New National Party dissenting).
Vote No 19 - Correctional Services - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 20 - Defence - put.
Declarations of vote:
Mr J L THERON: Chairperson, because of all the recent allegations of corruption regarding the strategic arms procurement deal, the DP will definitely not support this Budget Vote. The strategic arms procurement deal forms approximately 40% of the Defence Budget, and thus forms the crux of our objection to this Budget Vote.
Other reasons for our objection to this Budget Vote include the following: failure to rightsize the SA National Defence Force to the set target; too many troops who are nondeployable and a definite lack of combat - readiness; too many generals and not enough troops for deployment; not enough money allocated to the reserve forces in this budget; not enough funds allocated to finalise the integration process into the SANDF; and the R200 million in this year’s Defence Budget for the President’s aeroplane.
For all these substantial reasons, the DP cannot possibly support this Defence Budget Vote.
Mrs C NKUNA: Chair, the ANC acknowledges that the Department of Defence is a contingency-based organisation whose services are visible only when and where the National Defence Force is deployed to act on a specific contingency.
This department collaborates with a range of governmental, regional and international players to ensure that national security, through interventions, progressively realises the political, economic, social and cultural needs of the South African people and thus maintains regional security. Therefore, informed by the massive challenges faced by the Department of Defence, the Defence Vote has, in many respects, undergone significant changes in terms of programme structure and allocation of resources.
This has led to the formation of main programmes such as defence, intelligence, command and control, whose subprogrammes include, amongst others, the consolidation and centralisation of the finance personnel and legal and management information.
Relative to the above, the ANC unconditionally supports the budget allocated to the Department of Defence with firm confidence that it will ensure the department’s effectiveness in carrying out its constitutional challenges and duties. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party and New National Party dissenting).
Vote No 21 - Independent Complaints Directorate - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party and New National Party dissenting).
Vote No 22 - Justice and Constitutional Development - put.
Declarations of vote:
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, thanks for the opportunity. I am also very glad that I can make this declaration whilst our hon Minister of Finance is here. As indicated during question time, we were informed by the National Director of Public Prosecutions that, two years ago, the need had already been identified for 300 more public prosecutors. We have also been informed that there is an urgent need for more courts and magistrates. Although this will be prioritised, according to the Deputy Minister, the fact is that - and she admitted this - the shortages cannot be fully addressed by this budget. The terrible backlogs in cases are currently clogging up the whole criminal justice system and need urgent attention.
Over the past four years the number of awaiting-trial prisoners held for more than three months has increased from about 4 000 to over 27 000, with an average detention cycle time of 138 days. Half of all awaiting-trial prisoners had been held for longer than four and a half months, some for years.
Besides the awaiting-trial prisoners being deprived of their constitutional right to humane detention and a speedy trial, the cost to the state is enormous. At R88 per day to house a prisoner, that amounts to R5,6 million per day to keep awaiting-trial prisoners in prison. Those backlogs are caused by the fact that there are shortages of personnel, including prosecutors and magistrates, as I have indicated.
This is really, as we can see it, a matter of being penny wise and pound foolish, because if money were spent on the prosecutors and on addressing those shortages, we would be able to cut down on the awaiting-trial prisoners and so be able, in any event, to save that money which now amounts to R5,6 million per day. [Time expired.]
Mr J L MAHLANGU: Mr Chairperson, one of the most significant developments in the department has been the general shift away from personnel expenditure towards increased expenditure on our courts, which is the core business of the department. Since 1997 we have seen a fall in the personnel expenditure of 6% while the expenditure on equipping courts has increased by almost 4%.
If we look at the structure of this budget, it is clear that an even greater allocation will be made to the administration of our courts over the medium term. This will indeed significantly enhance the effectiveness of our courts in prosecuting criminals and will build on the successes already achieved in terms of further increasing the number of hours our courts are sitting, increasing the numbers of cases finalised by prosecutors, increasing conviction rates and dealing with the backlog of cases on our court rolls.
Other key outputs and successful service delivery trends include the success of the Directorate of Special Operations in the investigation into organised crime, corruption and urban terror, with notable success in both the Western Cape and KwaZulu-Natal, and the effectiveness of the Asset Forfeiture Unit in seizing millions of rands that are proceeds of crime.
The improvement of efficiency in the management of our court system has greatly improved the conditions of service of our judicial officers, such as judges, magistrates and prosecutors. It has also increased the confidence of the key beneficiaries of our justice system, such as our sexually abused women, children and other victims of violent crime.
It is only fair that we acknowledge these achievements and commend the Minister and his department for the manner in which they have applied their budget to the benefit of all the people of our country. We have absolutely no doubt that they will do so to an even greater extent during this budget cycle. Although seated, Chairperson, I inwardly rise in support of the budget on behalf of the ANC.
We strongly believe that this Budget Vote reaffirms the unshakable commitment of the Minister of Justice and Constitutional Development as well as his department to continuing on the road of transforming our justice system from one that was rejected and despised by the majority of our people to one that is internationally acknowledged for its accessibility, fairness and transparency. [Applause.]
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party, New National Party and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).
Vote No 23 - Safety and Security - put.
Declarations of vote:
Mr P A MATTHEE: Mr Chairperson, already a few years ago, in the White paper on Safety and Security, the Government acknowledged that it was necessary to undertake an extensive strategy process to outline the fixed goals and timeframes for action in the short, medium and longer term as far as the prevention and combating of crime was concerned.
Today we have again asked this question. We have not been given specific answers as to what the goals are, where we are going with crime in this country and whether the shortages will be addressed in this budget.
It is clear that all the shortages referred to as far as staff and equipment, including vehicles, are concerned seriously hamper the police in their attempts to combat and prevent crime and affect their morale negatively. We understand that there was a national audit in respect of these shortages, but the figures have not been given to us. In an authoritative survey of almost 1 500 companies in South Africa last year, crime emerged as the single most important investment-inhibiting factor for small businesses and a major factor for large businesses.
It is clear that our country is losing billions of rands and millions of job opportunities annually as a result of the unacceptably high levels of crime. Money wisely spent on the effective combating and prevention of crime should not be seen as an expense but should be seen as an investment. It is certainly the best investment that we can make and that this Government can make in the future of our country and our people. The message must be clear and the Government must be clear on this: The fighting of crime and the combating and preventing thereof must receive the highest priority, and this is not happening at this stage. That is why we have the shortages that we are experiencing and that is why we are not succeeding in drastically bringing down the unacceptably high levels of crime.
Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, the ACDP opposes this Vote because a South African is more likely to be shot dead than to die in a traffic accident, and yet South Africa has the worst road death toll in the world. In the Western Cape, 69% of deaths of men between the ages of 15 and 44 resulted from homicides or accidents, while the comparable figure for women is 41%. The rate of murder in South Africa in 1996 was 61 per 100 000 persons, compared to an international norm of 5,5 per 100 000. New data recently released in August shows this has not declined. Police reported that in 1998, 65 people were murdered each day. For that reason, we have no option but to vote against this Bill. The Department of Safety and Security is simply not defending the population of this country.
Mr T B TAABE: Chairperson, given the fact that the transformation of policing in this country has required substantial organisational restructuring and the development of strategic priorities to address crime, various policing agencies have been rationalised and amalgamated to form the SAPS. Their activities are centred on combating organised crime, serious and violent crime and crimes against women and children and on improving service delivery in their identified pilot police station services we have seen in this country.
As the ANC we would like to acknowledge the remarkable progress the Department of Safety and Security has indeed made over the past years on its objectives of policing services in line with community needs and laid down constitutional principles. However, these and other objectives and responsibilities cannot be achieved by the SAPS alone, for they require all of us to give our necessary and undivided support. We hope, though - and this point has got to be made, especially as we are going to our constituencies - that indeed real leaders will emerge in this country who base their messages on hope, rather than on fear; on the optimism of hard work rather than the pessimism of armchair whining, particularly from the kind of confused opposition in this country that has opposed the Budget Vote on Safety and Security.
We are equally hopeful that the opposition parties will engage in their favourite pastime of running around in disarray like frightened rabbits during this constituency period. We wish them well.
The ANC, being the kind of organisation that we are, and given the overwhelming mandate we have from the majority of South Africans, want to support this Vote without any reservation, for we believe earnestly that that would be in the interest of a crime-free South Africa and a better life for all. [Time expired.]
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party, New National Party and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).
Vote No 24 - Agriculture - put.
Declarations of vote:
Mrs A M VERSFELD: Chairperson, the President praised the positive attitude of farmers regarding land reform. Today I want to praise the hon the Minister, who applied her mind to this matter with very positive results, and urge her to stay on this road. I also commend the department for the innovative prioritising of funds from land reform to restitution, and call for public-private partnerships to deal with this important issue.
Although the DP is in favour of this Vote, there are some grave concerns about research at certain institutions, for example Onderstepoort. We appeal to the Minister for more money for research into alternative forms of agriculture, for example saline agriculture. Without research we will not be able to compete on the global market.
The DP supports this Budget Vote. [Interjections.]
Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, the ANC supports the Budget Vote on Agriculture. We believe that this Ministry, through its budget allocation, will move us closer to our main objectives. This budget will also move us closer to our objectives, which are feeding the nation through sustained food security, maximising the contribution of agriculture to the economy and ensuring that all of our people nurture and protect our natural resources for us today and for future generations.
Agriculture supports economic growth, especially in our remote black rural areas, and the deracialisation of the agricultural sector. Of course, as with most other departments, the ANC also believes that this budget does as it should, and that is to focus on poverty eradication, rural development and urban renewal in all provinces.
This budget will also contribute towards uplifting the emerging farmers to grow, and to become competent in the field of commercial agriculture.
We strongly support this Vote.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 25 - Communications - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party, New National Party and African Christian Democratic Party dissenting).
Vote No 26 - Environmental Affairs and Tourism - put.
Declarations of vote:
Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek wil as vertrekpunt sê dat ons hierdie begrotingspos gaan steun. Ons wil ook die Minister en sy departement gelukwens met die interaksie wat hulle met die komitee gehad het, veral ook rakende die voorgestelde nuwe plan ten opsigte van visserskwotas. Ons wens hulle alle sterkte daarmee toe, en glo dat dit gaan help om die korrupsie wat daar in die gemeenskap en in die bedryf is aan bande te lê.
Dinge soos die korrupsie en die wanbestuur wat heers by Nasionale Parke maak dit vir ons moeilik om die begrotingspos te steun. Die afleggings en die sake wat ondersoek gaan word in die Nasionale Kruger Wildtuin is tekenend hiervan. Dit is jammer dat die komitee nie die geleentheid gehad het om goed genoeg interaksie te kon hê met Satoer en met Nasionale Parke nie. Ons hoop regtig dit gaan verbeter. Dat daar ‘n onmiddellike ondersoek moet wees, en dat optrede moet volg, na die wanbestuur in Nasionale Parke, is ‘n voldonge feit. Desnieteenstaande sien ons ons weg oop om hierdie begrotingpos te steun. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)
[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, as a point of departure, I want to say that we will support this Budget Vote. We also want to congratulate the Minister and his department on the interaction which they enjoyed with the committee, especially regarding the proposed plan with the fishing quotas. We wish them all the best and hope that it will help them to restrict the corruption that exists in the community and in that industry.
Issues like corruption and maladministration that are prevalent at the National Parks make it difficult for us to support the Budget Vote. The lay- offs and the cases that will be investigated in the National Park illustrate this.
It is a pity that the committee did not have the opportunity to have adequate interaction with Satour and with National Parks. We sincerely hope that things will improve. That there should be an immediate investigation, and that action concerning the maladministration in National Parks should follow, is a foregone conclusion. Nevertheless, we see our way clear to supporting this Budget Vote.]
Mev A M VERSFELD: Voorsitter, die Minister van Omgewingsake en Toerisme verdien die A+ wat die Mail & Guardian aan die einde van die jaar 2000 aan hom toegeken het.
Hoogtepunte vir die DP is die totstandkoming van die peace parks'', die
vergroting van bewaringsgebiede, die herstrukturering van mariene- en
kusbestuur en - dit is die belangrikste - die instelling van visvangregte
vir die lang termyn, die monitering van ons marienebronne, die Blue
Flag’’ akkreditasie vir skoon en veilige strande en die uiters belangrike
projekte vir die verligting van armoede wat werklik en daadwerklik in
werking gestel word. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote
follows.)
[Mrs A M VERSFELD: Chairperson, the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism deserves the A+ which the Mail & Guardian awarded him at the end of the year 2000.
Highlights for the DP are the establishment of the peace parks, the extension of conservation areas, the restructuring of marine and coastal management - and this is the most important - the introduction of fishing rights for the long term, the monitoring of our marine resources, the Blue Flag accreditation for clean and safe beaches and the extremely important projects for poverty relief which are really being implemented actively.]
There are, however, two areas of great concern. The first one is Satour. Tourist numbers are dropping and Satour’s budget is increasing. Secondly, National Parks has been without a financial director for the last eight months. The Kruger National Park is the flagship of SA National Parks and South African tourism. The DP has been aware, and has evidence, of gross irregularities in the administration of the Kruger National Park for the last 18 months.
Theft and fraud are costing the park millions of rands every year. The DP cannot understand why there is not an in-depth, full-scale investigation into the affairs of SA National Parks and, specifically, the Kruger National Park. Facts appear to prove that thousands, or even millions, of rands are being spent on court cases. However, because of the Minister, and the good work that he has done, the DP supports this Budget Vote.
Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, the ANC supports this Budget Vote as it is extremely important. By promoting responsible tourism, we will be able to strike a balance between job creation and the sustainable use of our biological resources and heritage aimed at managing the development and conservation of our marine and coastal environment and environmental management capacity-building in all spheres of Government.
Some of the key outputs with regard to tourism relate to its annual contribution of about R25 billion to the economy. This represents approximately 4,9% of our GDP, and it is growing.
Furthermore, the number of tourists is growing by about 12% per annum. If one keeps in mind that one job is created for every eight tourists coming to our country, then one realises that the potential which tourism holds for job creation is immense.
In terms of environmental protection and management, the key service delivery trends include the launching of the national state of the environment report and the Cites environmental report on the Internet initiative. The department has also realised its White Paper on Integrated Pollution and Waste Management for South Africa. In addition, the department assisted various local governments to include strategic environmental assessment in their respective local government integrated development plans.
The ANC believes that the Budget Vote reflects a firm commitment on the part of the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to further transform the industry and make it more accessible to the previously disadvantaged communities with tourism potential. We strongly believe this Budget Vote will help create the conditions for increased job creation opportunities for these communities. Therefore we give it our unqualified support.
Vote agreed in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 27 - Labour - put.
Declarations of vote:
Ms C BOTHA: Mr Chairperson, it is natural to assume that the Minister of Labour is the one person in the country whose major concern should be finding ways to employ and train people. Unfortunately, the financial statements of the department, which we have just received, do not fill the DP with any confidence that this is indeed within the capability of the Minister to deliver. I need not spell out the parlous state of the old Unemployment Insurance Fund, which is still not finalised, nor the untenable discrepancies in the new Bill.
Furthermore, if we look at the new budget over the next three years, the department says it intends focusing on the development of a national skills development plan. We are happy about the intention, but totally dubious about the outcome.
Their own practical business school, which spent about R30 000 per student, had not even made provision for the accreditation of their own training centre. Certificates could therefore not be issued at the end of the relevant training projects.
As for creating employment, savings were made on five programmes of the Department of Labour. But this is owing to vacancies not being filled - all this while consultant services were rendered, which were not budgeted for.
As for labour reform, well, if a business had to reform at the rate the Minister is taking to fulfil his undertakings, it would have had to close shop long ago.
The Minister is producing unimplementable legislation. He is forcing employers to comply with inappropriate laws. He is taxing them for skills development while his own programme shows no grasp of the complexities of implementation. It is therefore unfortunate that the Minister or the Minister’s performance has obliged the DP to declare our objection to Vote 27.
Mr S L E FENYANE: Mr Chairperson, the ANC supports the Vote without reservations. We want to place on record the following …
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Could you speak into the mike, please.
Mr S L E FENYANE: The mike is very far, and I have indicated to some enthusiastic members of this House that I am too short. However, I appreciate that.
Let me read the declaration from the ANC. The ANC supports the Vote without reservations and wishes to place on record the following, that the labour market is infested with huge problems regarding the incidence of child labour and unfair labour practices. However, the Minister has drastically improved the situation and resolved some of the problems that beset the running of his department.
The department, under the admirable stewardship of the Minister of Labour, Mr Mdladlana, has managed to consult successfully with labour and business within the Nedlac processes, for the amendment of labour laws such as the Labour Relations Act, in order to put them in line with contemporary developments in the labour market.
The Minister has made a promise to effect terminations in line with the provisions of the Basic Conditions of Employment Act, to alleviate the plight of domestic and farm-workers. The department has put systems in place to uphold co-operative governance and to enhance efficiency in the running of the department. The ANC therefore supports the Vote with no reservations, as I indicated.
With the introduction of the Skills Development Act, the department will definitely improve the skills of the South African workforce. We therefore believe that the Minister is on course and doing the right thing. The ANC supports the Vote.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party and New National Party dissenting).
Vote No 28 - Land Affairs - put.
Declarations of vote:
Mr R M NYAKANE: Mr Chairperson, the UDM votes in favour of this Vote and wishes to put on record the following: that the process of land redistribution and restitution needs to be reviewed in order to speed up delivery. Land invasions remain an unacceptable form of behaviour and should thus be condemned in the strongest possible terms.
The successful recovery of land by the claimants should not be an end in itself, as appears to be the case currently. It is simply not acceptable to settle people on land without the most basic infrastructure. Integrated and interdepartmental land reform funding should be established for the provision of the basic infrastructure and essential services such as water, clinics, roads, streets, cemeteries, classrooms and shops.
The UDM supports this Vote.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, you are crossing the line and you are interrupting the proceedings.
Mr S L E FENYANE: Chairperson, I thought I was too short to be noticed. Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 29 - Minerals and Energy - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 30 - Public Works - agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Vote No 31 - Trade and Industry - put.
Declarations of vote:
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, sorry, there is a mistake on the
programme. It should say New NP'' and notDP’’. May I proceed?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Where is the mistake?
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, regarding Vote No 31 - Trade and Industry, the programme should indicate the New NP and not the DP. May I proceed? [Interjections.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Order, hon members! [Interjections.] Order, Ms Mahlangu and Mr Van Niekerk. [Interjections.] I have named you now. [Interjections.] Can you proceed, hon member?
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, the Department of Trade and Industry, under whose direct control the National Lotteries Board functions, is being criticised on two aspects of their gambling and lotteries administration, namely, firstly, the fact that no finality has been reached on regular, equitable and sustainable payouts of lottery funds to the many deserving welfare organisations which were previously able to make ends meet from their own fundraising campaigns, something they are now not able to do any more in terms of the existing legislation, and, secondly, the fact that the implementation of the euphemistically named ``limited payout machines’’, or so-called one-arm bandits, will strip the poorer parts of the community of their last few cents, despite widespread concern and opposition from the welfare administration community. Although the Department of Trade and Industry performs a commendable job in other fields and aspects of its area of responsibility, the New NP, in view of the above, cannot support this Vote.
Mr M BHABHA: Chairperson, since the inception of democracy in 1994, the Department of Trade and Industry has charted a remarkable pattern of growth and recovery in the economy of South Africa. This department has been responsible for opening up the markets of the European Union, the United States, Mercosur and the Far East. This has resulted in very large numbers of investments being attracted into this country.
The department has embarked upon industrial development zones in no less than 177 different areas in the country. It has embarked upon successful incentive initiatives to grow certain sectors and industries, which are strategic from the South African point of view, with the result that it has strengthened our ability to participate in the new global environment. In doing so, the department has also made South Africa one of those countries on the continent of Africa that participates in information technology initiatives, in the way in which any other First World country would be able to participate.
From that point of view, I think that the DP’s objection to this Vote merely because of some administrative problems of the National Lottery is disappointing.
When the Department of Trade and Industry called for organisations to ask for money from the lottery, only about 700 organisations asked for that money. The New NP is aware of the fact that both the ANC and the Department of Trade and Industry want to limit the usage of limited payout machines in different parts of the country, and want to do an assessment of the socioeconomic impact of gambling in this country. So one is actually quite disappointed that the New NP has misrepresented the viewpoint of both the ANC and the Department of Trade and Industry. I call on this House to support this Vote.
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party and New National Party dissenting).
Vote No 32 - Transport - put.
Declaration of vote:
Dr P J C NEL: Mnr die Voorsitter, die Nuwe NP glo dat die agb Minister sy bes doen om die padnetwerk in stand te hou met die fondse tot sy beskikking, wat totaal en al onvoldoende is. Alhoewel die Regering van die dag hoog opgee dat die uitbouing en onderhoud van die infrastruktuur van sy vervoerstelsel die hoogste prioriteit geniet, is dit tog vreemd dat die toekenning van fondse vir hierdie doel jaarliks met reëlmaat besnoei word.
Ek kan die woorde van die Minister self in dié verband gebruik. Hy het ‘n tyd gelede in die gekose komitee onder meer gesê:
Wanneer dit kom by die toekenning van fondse vir paaie, wil dit voorkom asof daar altyd die een of ander projek is wat belangriker is as die padbouprojekte.
Onlangse statistiek het getoon dat daar op die oomblik ‘n agterstand in die onderhoud van die padnetwerk van R65 miljard is. As dié geld nie gevind word nie, gaan die ekonomiese en maatskaplike ontwikkeling van ons mooi land totaal en al ineenstort.
Die lewering van pad-, spoor-, see- en pyplynvervoerstelsels is die primêre verantwoordelikheid van die Staat. Solank as wat die Staat versuim om sy plig in dié verband na te kom en solank as wat die taxibedryf nie behoorlik deur hierdie departement beheer kan word nie, kan die Nuwe NP nie die Vervoerbegrotingspos steun nie. (Translation of Afrikaans declaration of vote follows.)
[Dr P J C NEL: Mr Chairperson, the New NP believes that the hon the Minister is doing his best to maintain the road network with the funds at his disposal, which are completely inadequate. Even though the Government of the day boasts that the extension and maintenance of the infrastructure of its transport system enjoys the highest priority, it is still very strange that the allocation of funds for this purpose is cut with regularity on an annual basis.
I can use the Minister’s own words in this regard. A while back in the select committee he said, inter alia, the following:
Wanneer dit kom by die toekenning van fondse vir paaie, wil dit voorkom asof daar altyd die een of ander projek is wat belangriker is as die padbouprojekte.
Recent statistics have shown that there is currently a backlog of R65 billion in the maintenance of the road network. If this money is not found, the economic and social development of our beautiful country will completely collapse.
The provision of road, rail, maritime and pipeline transport systems is the primary responsibility of the state. As long as the state does not fulfil its duty in this regard and as long as the taxi industry is not adequately controlled by this department, the New NP cannot support the Transport Vote.]
Mof J L KGOALI: Modulasetulo, ke a leboha. Mokgatlo wa ANC o tshetleha Kabelo ya Lefapha la tsa Dipalangwang ntle le qeaqeo.
Ditsela tsa rona, naheng ya rona ya Afrika Borwa, di sa ntse di bontsha hore ke tse ding tsa tse tswetseng pele, ha ho bapiswa le dinaha tseo re reng ke dinaha tse tswetseng pele. Kgolo ya moruo, e tsamaiswang ka ditsela, ke ntho ya bohlokwa ho rona, mme re ikemiseditse hore re tsweletse pele tshetleho eno.
Lenaneo la Fihla o Phela la Lefapha la tsa Dipalangwang ke le leng la mananeo a etsang hore re seke ra qeaqea ho bontsha tswelopele e entsweng ke lefapha lena.
Ka hoo, ke rata ho bontsha hore mokgatlo wa ANC o motjheng, ho ya ka moo moralo wa rona re o behileng ka teng. Re tlatsa lefapha. [Ditlatse.] (Translation of Sesotho declaration of vote follows.)
[Ms J L KGOALI: Chairperson, thank you. The ANC supports the Transport Budget Vote without any hesitation.
The roads in our country, South Africa, still show that they are some of the better developed roads, compared to those in the countries that we call developed countries. Economic growth, which occurs through the roads, is important to us, and we intend to carry that suggestion through.
The Transport department’s Arrive Alive campaign is one of the campaigns that urge us to point out, without any hesitation, the development strategies that have taken place through this department.
Therefore, we would like to say that the ANC is right on track, according to the way in which we have done our construction. We support the department. [Applause.]]
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution (Democratic Party and New National Party dissenting.)
Vote No 33 - Water Affairs and Forestry - put.
Declarations of vote:
Mrs A M VERSFELD: Chairperson, the DP is of the opinion that the Minister has achieved important goals, and that we want to give our support to the work that he has done, especially the Working for Water project. However, according to the report by the Auditor-General, community water projects are not working well. The warning lights are thus flickering.
Newspaper reports in the last week indicate that the Minister plans to put the Skuifraam Dam on hold. This is exactly what I asked in the debate on his Budget Vote. I would urge the Minister to implement the proposals that I made, otherwise Cape Town will have a shortage of water, and the DP and I will have to carry the blame, as the ANC is very good at shifting the blame. However, the DP supports this Vote. [Laughter.]
Ms B THOMSON: Chairperson, the ANC supports this Budget Vote, and also endorses the key approaches of the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry.
Amanzi ayimpilo. [Water is health.]
Water is life. This forms the gist of the Department of Water and Forestry’s strategy and can be understood to imply that water is indispensable to survival, and that there can be no livelihood, growth and economic development in its absence. In this drought-prone and water-scarce country, it is our responsibility to ensure water security at all times.
With reference to the community water service programme, the Minister was emphatic that at the current rate of progress, within seven years we should be celebrating the fact that virtually all our people have, at last, access to clean drinking water. In the year 2008, a shameful legacy of the past will have been wiped out and Government’s pledge to provide all with clean water will have been achieved.
With regard to the free basic water policy for the poor, we as members of this House need to congratulate the 21 municipalities which have already initiated the programme. A programme of support and guidance is under way to help all local government structures implement the policy from 1 July, local government budget day.
With reference to cholera, the department remains very steadfast that it will not be complacent. The Minister has spelt out three key requirements for eradicating cholera and other waterborne diseases: providing safe water, adequate sanitation and health and hygiene education.
Crisis management of cholera included R35 million which was provided for emergency water and sanitation services in KwaZulu-Natal. Over 100 000 people were provided with safe water in cholera-affected areas. Sanitation was provided for 52 000 people, disused boreholes repaired and springs protected. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Vote agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Schedule agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, I move the adoption of the Bill. [Applause.]
Ms Q D MAHLANGU: Chairperson, it is very difficult to speak when one is seated, but I will try my best to rise to the challenge. My microphone is broken. There has been an overall increase in revenue collected, therefore creating an enabling environment for increased shares for different departments and spheres of government. We must congratulate the SA Revenue Service which, for three consecutive years, has exceeded the targets it has set for itself in collecting revenue. We must also praise South African taxpayers who continue to co-operate very diligently with Sars.
Research has shown that despite the relative wealth of our country, the experience of most South African households …
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I want to draw your attention to the fact that we are dealing with Order No 2, which is the Appropriation Bill.
Ms Q D MAHLANGU: But, Chairperson, those people are making a noise.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Could you please proceed? Ms Q D MAHLANGU: Chairperson, I support the Bill.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): We are not trying to stop you, hon member.
Ms Q D MAHLANGU: I have finished, Chairperson.
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, may I express appreciation to all delegates for their participation in this debate. To deal with an appropriation debate, as we have done here today, is clearly a difficult process. It is difficult because the process is flawed. The process is flawed because everybody operates under whip, and when legislators operate by whip they sometimes do not see issues as they should see them. We owe it to ourselves and all our constituents to engage with the process so that it can be a lot more meaningful in future.
Some of the reasons that parties put forward for opposing or not supporting a particular Vote are in fact, reasons why they should support it. Le me take the example of education. If one looks at the detail of what is happening in the provinces, there is a lot more spending on capital works: the building of classrooms; the provision of school books, laboratories and all manner of things in places where they previously did not exist; and the rollout of water, and electricity and all of those things that are now coming into areas where television cameras do not go.
If there is anything that we should be celebrating, it is the fact that change is happening in those areas where previously people were just too poor to recognise that change would come. It is happening, but the process of transformation itself will always take a very long time. And if we understand that, then we must give applause where applause is due. But I am saying that in a party-political environment, it is sometimes difficult to deal with issues in that way.
Once again, I thank hon members. My appeal is just that we engage in this process so that we can all see issues for what they are, disagree on the same issues and give support to those hard-working public servants who make time and an effort, and give energy in order to get into areas of impoverishment. At the same time, we must collectively feel responsible and take issue with those who are too lazy to get to where the poor are.
We must not behave in the manner which we see on TV, which often focuses only on what one does wrong. Now, my colleague the Minister of Safety and Security always says that one should not praise a fish for swimming, because it is meant to swim. But in dealing with a complex organisation such as the Public Service, there are always going to be those who will be out of order. And collectively, I think we have a responsibility, as part of our accountability to the electorate who sent us here, to actually deal with those and support those who are bringing about changes in the lives of the poor.
Having said that, I thank all members, delegates and parties for their support for this Appropriation Bill. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
REVENUE LAWS AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report Bill thereon)
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, I propose the adoption of this Bill.
Ms Q D MAHLANGU: Chairperson, The Revenue Laws Amendment Bill before this House represents a milestone in the history of tax reform in this country. Clause 22 of the Bill makes provision for employees’ tax payable in respect of directors of private companies. This is an unprecedented development.
The reasons for the proposal are as follows. At present directors of private companies are not subject to monthly pay-as-you-earn, or PAYE, deductions on their salaries or other remunerations. In the past this has been justified on the basis of the practical problems that arise when fixing a private company director’s final remuneration for a year of assessment and subjecting advances paid to directors to PAYE.
The result of this concession is that private company directors need only settle the tax bill on their salaries when they make their provisional tax payments, and finally on assessment.
This gives private company directors a substantial cash-flow advantage over ordinary employees. In addition, public companies have devised structures to permit their directors to take advantage of this cash-flow advantage.
In order to create equity between directors and ordinary employees, the Revenue Laws Amendment Bill before us withdraws the exemption from payment of PAYE that directors of private companies have long enjoyed. These private companies will, with effect from 1 March 2002, pay an amount of tax on behalf of directors, based on the director’s remuneration for the previous year of assessment as a form of a minimum amount.
Of course, cash-flow difficulties will arise where the final amount of remuneration actually paid to the director in respect of a year of assessment is well below the remuneration of the previous year. The point is, however, that the salaried director should not be placed in a worse position than a normal employee.
In addition, systems changes will be required by companies to administer the payments of PAYE on amounts paid to directors. The provision in the Bill before this House will only apply with effect from 1 March 2002, which will give companies sufficient time to introduce changes to systems and register as employers for PAYE purposes.
A suggestion was also raised during the public hearings that, perhaps, a system should be introduced whereby directors subject to PAYE may elect to pay normal rates or a fixed percentage, for example 40%, instead of the normal deduction tables.
The SA Revenue Service has argued that the introduction of such a system will still result in a deferral benefit to directors, and will create a precedent which may lead to requests from other groups of employees for similar treatment.
My colleague and friend Mr Lucas will address this House on incentives for strategic industries, but I would just like to make an additional comment on this subject.
An industrial project of a company is classified as a strategic industrial project by the Minister of Trade and Industry after taking into account the recommendations of the adjudication committee, as provided for in the Bill. While it is likely that the industrial project will increase production of the relevant industrial sector within the Republic, displacement of any other activities within that sector could occur. Both the SA Revenue Service and the Department of Trade and Industry have addressed this concern. Both the National Treasury and the SA Revenue Service have argued that there can be no limited displacement of domestic industry. Up to a maximum of 40% of the project’s output may displace existing output. For example, if the domestic industry produces 100 000 units of a particular product and the new incentivised project produces 10 000 units, there would be no displacement if the total output of an industry increases to 110 000 units.
However, the new project is allowed to displace existing output by no more than 40% of its output. Thus the total output after the project is up and running may fall to 106 000 units. The concern of the displacement of activities by incentivised projects will be addressed by regulations to be published in the Gazette at the right time. I think this is a call to South African companies to take advantage of the project and invest in the country instead of choosing to go offshore.
A crucial and seldom-mentioned development in our administration of tax is the notion of Siyakha, meaning ``we are building’’. Siyakha is one of the most dynamic new programmes of organisational transformation in the country. We believe it will set a new tone for the way that the SA Revenue Service does its business. Through Siyakha, the SA Revenue Service has taken the lead in transforming their organisation into one that prizes efficiency above bureaucracy, customer relations above authoritarianism and assistance above blind obedience to tax regulations.
The SA Revenue Service will concentrate more on risk management, and less on administration. Its strengthened auditing capacity will enable it to give much better services to traders and taxpayers and importers and exporters, while at the same time targeting noncompliance.
For the past five years Sars has consistently exceeded revenue targets by improving its collections and combating fraud. It is a record that has allowed us to lower taxes, both at personal and corporate level, on a year- to-year basis. It is a path that we need to continue on.
Through Siyakha, Sars can contribute to the overall wellbeing of the South African economy. Improved revenue collection and customs mean that we can increase social spending and cut taxes.
Siyakha, as a transformation process, began its diagnostic phase in February 2000. What does Siyakha mean for the country, taxpayers and traders?
It means faster, more efficient processing of returns and refunds across all tax types; a single point of registration for all tax types; dedicated Sars taxpayer service centres designed to solve all queries quickly and efficiently and positioned to service all South Africans; simple tax forms; electronic filing for most businesses and taxpayers who file through third parties; closer co-ordination with the tax-filing and tax-paying communities; more revenue collected and better social benefits.
What will Siyakha mean for Sars? It will mean more efficient processes; growth in stature as a revenue and customs organisation; optimising the use of limited resources; the establishment of a transparent, fair and consistent organisation that people can trust, an organisation that is responsive to the needs of the taxpayer; and pride in making Sars a preferred employer.
What will Siyakha mean for the staff of Sars? There will be new job categories with a particular emphasis on taxpayer education and support; new opportunities in audit, collections and data analysis to support our move from administration to audit; new skills and training programmes to develop them and identify their potential; and growth and pride in a new work culture.
I hope that the other national departments will follow Sars’s lead when they design their transformation programmes. Sars could serve as a model for transforming every sector of government.
The ANC supports this Bill unequivocally. [Applause.]
Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, seeing that the Minister did not use his time, can I have two minutes of his allocated time? [Laughter.]
Minister of Finance, Deputy Minister of Finance and hon colleagues …
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, will the hon member take a question?
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, will you take a question?
Dr E A CONROY: Not at this stage, Chairperson.
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, if his taxes are paid up and he is in surplus with the Revenue Service, then he can have two minutes. If not, sorry. [Laughter.]
Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, I am up to date.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, carry on.
Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, do I have the two minutes?
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: No, hon member.
Dr E A CONROY: However well debated in the draft phase and however well functioning in its finally published form an Act may be, changed circumstances, after a few years, will inevitably necessitate amendments to ensure that the relevant Act or Acts still serve their original purposes.
This Bill introduces amendments to a variety of revenue-related laws. I will mention only a few of the more important ones due to the limited speaking time allotted to me.
In the case of the Estate Duty Act of 1955, for example, the value of a property in an estate which consists of all the property and all deemed property of a person at the date of death is determined as provided for in section 5.
Many circumstances have arisen where a value needs to be placed on property qualifying for deductions for estate duty purposes and, although the evaluation rules have been applied for purposes of both the inclusion of property in the estate and the deduction thereof, there has been some uncertainty in this regard. To eliminate any uncertainties the wording of section 5 is being amended to provide that the value of the property determined in that section shall apply in respect of property included in the estate, as well as for purposes of the deductions contemplated in section 4 of the Act.
Proposed amendments to the Income Tax Act of 1962 include the rates of normal tax payable by persons other than companies as well as companies; pension funds and retirement funds of local government employees a small technical amendment to the Taxation Laws Amendment Bill of 2001 as far as capital gains tax is concerned; increases in the primary rebate and the rebate in respect of persons over 65 years; the definition of foreign dividends to protect the tax base; the deduction of the full cost of any investment in manufacturing assets by a small business enterprise in the year of assessment during which the asset is brought into use for the first time by that enterprise; the amendment of the definition of the word ``employee’’ to include directors of private companies which are not otherwise included for purposes of the fourth schedule in respect of any amount of PAYE; the threshold from which individuals will be required to register as provisional taxpayers; the disposal of any asset of a resident and certain assets of nonresidents situated in the Republic, including immovable property held by a nonresident or any interest or right of such a person to or in immovable property; the size of land on which a primary residence is situated to qualify for the primary residence exemption; and accelerated depreciation in terms of reinvestment in replacement assets which qualify for certain capital allowances.
Amendments to the Customs and Excise Act of 1964 include sections referring
to value-added tax payable on imported goods and on dutiable goods
manufactured or produced in the Republic; the electronic submission of
reports relating to imported cargo, before arrival of a ship or aircraft,
improved control over imported and exported goods; the removal of imported
goods in bond; the period in which imported goods may be retained in a
customs and excise warehouse; enabling provisions to introduce the so-
called duty-at-source system which, in essence, means that duty is payable
when manufactured excisable or fuel levy goods are removed for home
consumption from the customs and excise warehouse; the registration of
persons participating in activities regulated by the Act, which became
necessary for the purpose of the electronic processing of customs and
excise business; the requirement that an applicant for a clearing agent’s
licence submit proof of good character and sufficient knowledge of customs
and excise laws and procedures; the elimination of the value determination
formula for domestically produced goods; the levying of duties on the
invoice price of dutiable items; and the regulation of electronic
communication for the purpose of customs and excise procedures, which
includes definitions of terms like computer'', computer system’’,
data'',digital signature’’ and ``originator’’.
A few amendments to the Stamp Duties Act of 1968, which I will not refer to in detail, have also become necessary.
To wrap up, a few amendments have also become …
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, your time is up.
Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, can I say that I support this Bill. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
Mr G A LUCAS: Motlotlegi Modulasetilo, Ditona tse di leng teng fano, batlotlegi ba Ntlo eno ba ba leng teng fano … [Hon Chairperson, Ministers present, and hon members who are here …]
… the Revenue Laws Amendment Bill before this House represents an important milestone in advancing the cause of small business development. While there are consistent attempts to render effective support to small businesses, none are as profound, far-reaching and comprehensive as those listed in the Revenue Laws Amendment Bill before this House.
Clause 12 of the Bill caters for an accelerated depreciation regime for qualifying small businesses that invest in manufacturing assets.
The full cost of investment may be deducted in the tax year in which the asset is brought into use by a taxpayer for the first time. The clause is unambiguous in its intention to stimulate the cause of the small business sector. It clearly states that any plant or machinery of a taxpayer which qualifies as a small business shall qualify for a deduction equal to the cost of such asset in the year in which such asset is brought into use. Of course, we need to know the following qualifications. The clause allows exemption only when the asset is brought into use for the first time by the taxpayer on or after 1 April 2000, and is used by the taxpayer directly in the process of manufacturing carried out by the taxpayer. [Interjections.]
Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for another member to repeat my speech verbatim? [Laughter.]
Mr G A LUCAS: I am sure that that is not a question. [Laughter.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: That will be looked into. [Laughter.]
Mr G A LUCAS: I am sure that Dr Conroy wants to move over to the ANC. So it is just an attempt to become more friendly to the ANC. [Laughter.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Great minds think alike. [Laughter.]
Mr G A LUCAS: Chairperson, this exemption also applies to any expenditure that is related to the transport cost of such assets. A taxpayer is allowed to deduct, from the taxpayer’s income, the transport cost of new plants and machinery. This exemption does not apply to mining and farming. This clause will also improve the cash flow of growing small businesses and further enhance the potential for this sector to create the necessary jobs required in our country.
Last year, the Department of Trade and Industry announced a number of industrial incentives to facilitate investments in South Africa. This Bill before us does expand further the range of available policy tools to encourage investment by introducing investment allowances for strategic industrial projects.
This incentive will provide a targeted instrument to encourage projects that have significant direct and indirect benefits for our economy. For instance, a company is allowed to deduct an amount equal to 100% of the cost of any industrial asset that qualifies as a strategic industrial project.
Projects eligible for 100% deductions are viewed as preferred projects. Some companies will also be allowed to deduct 50% of the cost of any industrial asset used in qualifying industrial projects. The companies qualifying for this exemption have to be taxpayers in good standing and have to submit an application for approval of the project to the Minister of Trade and Industry after 31 July 2000 but not later than 31 July 2005.
In addition, during the public hearings questions were raised as to the appropriateness of instituting tax-based incentives instead of cash-based incentives for small-scale business-sector and strategic industrial projects.
It is surprising that the critics of this Bill did not engage Government to explore the possibility of withdrawing the tax incentives for the farming and mining sectors which are already in receipt of tax-based incentives.
It is certain that businesses will prefer cash-based incentive programmes that have an immediate and direct impact on their cash flow. Government has decided on a tax-based incentive for the strategic industrial projects for the following reasons: Firstly, the tax-based approach will contribute to ensuring that projects receiving the benefit are sustainable and profitable. Secondly, tax-based incentives are effective for profitable firms, and additional allowances will provide impetus for the firm to undertake their investment as quickly as possible after the Minister approves the project as strategic and to accelerate the production in order to generate sufficient income against which to utilise the benefit. Thirdly, the tax-based measure ensures that the fiscus stimulus is not diluted; the deduction can only be used against income from a particular project receiving the benefit. The tax measure will have a more direct impact on strategic projects than tax-based incentives which benefit the company irrespective of whether the project is profitable or sustainable. Lastly, the tax-based benefits are less susceptible to manipulation and fraud than cash-based incentives.
Based upon these remarks, the ANC supports the Bill. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Madam Chairperson, I am very much impressed to see the amount of detail that the distinguished members of the committee have given to the Bill. It is a complex piece of legislation. I think that one recognises that the changes this year are all on the production side. It is, clearly, a very important commitment as part of stimulating growth in the economy. Having said that, of course, there is a degree by which we act in the environment of faith. But all of this was well reflected by the three participants in the debate. It is clear that the Bill has the support of all parties in the House. I would like to thank all parties for that and the committee for their endeavours in discussing the Bill in the kind of detail that they have.
Last but not least, in expressing appreciation, may I wish these distinguished delegates well over this recess, but they should bear in mind that there is a lot of constituency work to do to explain what we have done in this House over the past six months. I wish them well over the period and invite them to drive safely. I also appeal to them to return invigorated after the recess. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
ADMINISTRATION OF ESTATES LAWS INTERIM RATIONALISATION BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
Order disposed of without debate.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
FAREWELL MESSAGE
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Before I conclude, may I take this opportunity to thank the hon the Minister and his Deputy for attending to these proceedings and engaging this House in a lively debate.
Hon members, this is the last day of the session, but, having had a technical breakdown in the Chamber of the NCOP, I am not promising anybody any party. Members are expected to resume their official duties from 20 August 2001. Maybe I should say a few words on behalf of the Presiding Officers. We would like to extend our sincerest appreciation to hon members of this august House for the excellent work that they performed during this session. Almost all members who participated in the debates of this House acquitted themselves in a manner befitting public representatives.
We have noted with admiration a remarkable improvement in the quality of the members’ debates in this House. Furthermore, we noted that members began to include matters of provincial importance in their speeches.
The gradual improvement in the participation of provincial MECs and other special delegates has added value to the quality of proceedings before this House. Therefore we appeal to members, and, in particular, the Whips, to continue ensuring that provinces are afforded ample opportunity to participate in the business of this House. Sufficient time should be allocated to special delegates, and, in particular, MECs and premiers. It does not make sense to invite special delegates to the House and, when they do come, give them three or five minutes to speak. I would like to appeal to you to extend to them our thanks and appreciation for the valuable contribution that they have made.
Our special thanks also go to the Chief Whip, the Whips, the Chairperson of Committees and her deputy, and chairpersons of committees. We wish to thank all staff members, including staff at Regis House, for the sterling work that they all performed during this session. It has, indeed, been a pleasure working with all of you and the staff.
Members are urged to spend the few days that have been allocated as holidays with their families. The rest of the days should be devoted to constituency work, as the people who brought us here must be given the necessary attention and should not only be visited when we require their votes.
Finally, the NCOP as a bastion of co-operative governance cannot function without the co-operation of all stakeholders in general, the National Assembly and the nine provinces in particular. Hon members, bon voyage.
The Council adjourned at 17:20. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) Assent by the President of the Republic in respect of the
following Bill:
(i) Export Credit and Foreign Investments Re-insurance
Amendment Bill [B 19B - 2001] - Act No 9 of 2001
(assented to and signed by President on 27 June 2001).
National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson: Bills passed by National Council of Provinces on 28 June 2001: To be submitted to President of the Republic for assent:
(i) Appropriation Bill [B 10 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 77);
(ii) Revenue Laws Amendment Bill [B 36 - 2001] (National Assembly -
sec 77);
(iii) Administration of Estates Laws Interim Rationalisation Bill [B
24B - 2000] (National Assembly - sec 75).
- The Chairperson:
The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
relevant committees as mentioned below:
(1) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on Land
and Environmental Affairs:
Report of the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism for
2000-2001.
(2) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Security and Constitutional Affairs:
(a) Government Notice No R.354 published in Government Gazette
No 22239 dated 20 April 2001, Amendment of Regulations,
made in terms of section 81(2) of the Attorneys Act, 1979 (Act
No 53 of 1979).
(b) Government Notice No R.373 published in Government Gazette
No 22265 dated 30 April 2001, Rules regulating the conduct of
the proceedings of the various Provincial and Local Divisions
of the High Court of South Africa: Repeal of Rule 37A, and
Transitional Provisions, made in terms of section 6 of the
Rules Board for Courts of Law Act, 1985 (Act No 107 of 1985).
(c) Proclamation No R.28 published in Government Gazette No
22247 dated 20 April 2001, Commencement of section 4 of the
Criminal Procedure Amendment Act, 1997 (Act No 76 of 1997)
from 20 April 2001.
(d) Government Notice No 898 published in Government Gazette
No 22250 dated 20 April 2001, Directives under section 4 of
the Criminal Procedure Amendment Act, 1997 (Act No 76 of
1997).
(e) Proclamation No R.29 published in Government Gazette No
22261 dated 30 April 2001, Extension of the period of
operation of sections 51 and 52 of the Criminal Law Amendment
Act, 1997 (Act No 105 of 1997), made in terms of section 53(2)
of the Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1997 (Act No 105 of 1997).
(f) Government Notice No R.423 published in Government Gazette
No 22284 dated 18 May 2001, Regulations in terms of the
National Prosecuting Authority Act, 1998, made in terms of
section 40 read with sections 16(3) and 25(2) of the National
Prosecuting Authority Act, 1998 (Act No 32 of 1998).
(g) Proclamation No R.31 published in Government Gazette No
22333 dated 28 May 2001, Dissolution of the Committee on
Amnesty, made in terms of section 43(2) of the Promotion of
National Unity and Reconciliation Act, 1995 (Act No 34 of
1995).
(3) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
Finance:
Explanatory Memorandum on the Revenue Laws Amendment Bill, 2001
[WP 2-2001].
TABLINGS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Finance:
Report and Financial Statements of the Public Investment Commissioners
for 1999-2000, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 1999-2000 [RP 201-2000].