FRIDAY, 2 NOVEMBER 2001 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 09:35.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Ms C S BOTHA: Madam Chair, I hereby give notice that I shall move:

That the Council -

(1) believes that for democracy to prosper, a healthy balance between majority and opposition parties is necessary;

(2) recognises that opposition to the Government cannot be effective from within the governing party;

(3) recommits itself to government that is principled, efficient, accountable and transparent;

(4) agrees that elected public representatives must serve the interests of their voters and not the interests of their pockets; and

(5) therefore calls on all public representatives to rededicate themselves to the delivery of services and hope to the homeless, the unemployed, those living with HIV/Aids, the elderly and the victims of crime.

Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, I humbly give notice of the following motion: That the Council -

(1) notes with horror the rape of three infants in South Africa in the past week;

(2) expresses its strongest condemnation of this form of violence against children, who are the most vulnerable members of our society;

(3) calls on the judiciary to ensure that the perpetrators of such crimes are appropriately punished;

(4) calls on members of our communities to be vigilant in the protection they offer our children and to report all cases of sexual violence against children; and

(5) requests the Minister of Safety and Security to ensure that the services of the Child Protection Units remain an important feature in the protective mechanisms the state has in place for the benefit of our children.

Ms S N NTLABATI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the Council I shall move:

That the Council -

(1) notes with extreme displeasure how the DP, in its attempt to preserve white privilege, has once again embarked on a vile, racist ``swart gevaar’’ campaign against the ANC by using coloured leaders to drive a wedge between Africans and coloureds in the Western Cape;

(2) believes that such tactics are indicative of a desperate and morally bankrupt leadership;

(3) reminds the DP that the breakup of the DA was not caused by the ANC but by their own backstabbing;

(4) further reminds the DP that the only example of bad government in the country is happening in a province controlled by the DA; and

(5) calls on the Premier, Mr Gerald Morkel, to stop vacillating and to heed the warnings of his party leader, Marthinus van Schalkwyk, and other New NP members.

               FREE ELECTRICITY TO POOR IN NORTH WEST

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr P D N MALOYI: Chairperson, I move without notice -

That the Council -

(1) notes that on 30 October 2001 the Minister of Minerals and Energy launched a number of projects around the Mathopestad area in North West which will provide free basic energy to the poor;

(2) further notes that in terms of these projects, households in the province earning less than R800 per month will be given 50 kW of electricity free of charge every month; (3) also notes that people in the area will now, for the first time, have energy for basic household needs such as cooking and lighting; and

(4) welcomes these poverty relief projects as yet another demonstration of the commitment of the ANC to improve the living conditions of all our people.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                SEXUAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN BY TEACHERS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes that when we send our children to school we send them for education and proper upbringing in the absence of the parents;

(2) notes with shock that some teachers take advantage of school children and abuse them sexually;

(3) also notes that such malpractices and exploitation of children lead to various types of sexually transmitted diseases;

(4) notes with sadness that children are not only destroyed morally and physically, but that some of them are not victims of HIV/Aids; and

(5) therefore appeals to the Department of Education to take steps and precautions to monitor this awful and dreadful misbehaviour by some teachers.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                     RAPE OF NINE-MONTH-OLD BABY

                         (Draft Resolution)

Prince B Z ZULU: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes with great sadness and shock the case in which six men aged between 24 and 66 allegedly raped a baby of nine months in Upington in the Northern Cape;

(2) expresses its grave concern over such a heinous act of such utmost savagery;

(3) is of the opinion that such an act was meant to completely destroy the life of the child;

(4) expresses the fact that this contributes to lawlessness and human rights abuse which cannot be tolerated in this country or anywhere in the civilised world; and (5) commends the South African Police for apprehending the rapists with quick efficiency and appreciates our bail laws that made it impossible for the accused to get bail.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                  ONE-STOP CENTRE IN NORTHERN CAPE

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) welcomes the opening of a new One-Stop Centre in the Northern Cape Town of Colesberg by former President Nelson Mandela and Premier Manne Dipico;

(2) notes that this centre will provide a wide range of social services under one roof, such as the issuing of identification documents, death certificates, help with child maintenance queries, domestic violence and other social assistance enquiries;

(3) further notes that, in the past, people had to travel to De Aar to get assistance with regard to the above services;

(4) acknowledges that because of poverty many people could not find the money to travel this long distance, resulting in them having to forego these important services; and

(5) believes that the establishment of this centre will pave the way for poor people to access the above services and bring a qualitative improvement to their lives.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                PANSALB CONFERENCE ON MULTILINGUALISM

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:

Dat die Raad -

(1) daarvan kennis neem dat die Pansat vandag in Pretoria ‘n konferensie aanbied waar veeltaligheid bespreek sal word;

(2) hulle sterkte en voorspoed toewens;

(3) verder kennis neem dat bykans 200 taalregteskendings by Pansat aangemeld is en dat dié fokusarea van Pansat minder as 2% van die begroting ontvang om sy werk te verrig;

(4) aanbeveel dat die Minister van Kuns, Kultuur, Wetenskap en Tegnologie in die lig van die feit dat Pansat sedert April sonder raadslede moet funksioneer, hierdie saak ondersoek en vasstel of addisionele fondse vir uitkontraktering nie ‘n oplossing is nie. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)

[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council-

(1) notes that PanSALB is presenting a conference in Pretoria today at which multilingual will be discussed;

(2) wishes them well and everything of the best;

(3) further notes that about 200 language rights violations have been reported to PanSALB and that the focus area of PanSALB receives less than 2% of the budget with which to do its work; and

(4) recommends that the Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, in view of the fact that PanSALB has had to function without board members since April, should investigate this matter and determine whether additional funds for purposes of contracting out could be a solution.]

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

SOUTH AFRICA’S HOSTING OF 2002 UN WORLD SUMMIT ON SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT

                         (Draft Resolution)

Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes that South Africa has been chosen to host the 2002 United Nations World Summit on Sustainable Development;

(2) recognises that poverty poses the biggest threat to sustainable development due to the instability, conflict, disease and degradation that result from it;

(3) acknowledges the important role our Government is playing in ensuring that the summit agenda will give priority to issues of concern to developing countries, such as poverty;

(4) believes the hosting of the summit in South Africa is an important achievement which confirms our country’s and Government’s significance within the global community; and

(5) further believes that the summit will provide our country and the African continent with an opportunity to help shape a globally defined sustainable development agenda firmly focused around the reduction of poverty and which will have an enormously positive impact on the everyday lives of millions of people all over the world.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

          MARKETING OF AGRICULTURAL PRODUCTS AMENDMENT BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Madam Chair, this is actually a very interesting Bill which we have before the House. It has received a lot of attention in the National Assembly’s portfolio committee and the NCOP’s select committee has also given it very close attention, but perhaps I should say something about the background to this amending Bill.

One should actually start with the old Marketing Act of 1968, which made possible a whole system of controls over agricultural products with the assistance of various systems that could be introduced under that Act. In actual fact it was a completely regulated system. It was possible to regulate the marketing of almost any particular agricultural product in this way. They declared it a controlled product and then a scheme was established whereby certain measures were prescribed for that type of product. A control board was then put in place for the particular product to implement the scheme, as it was called, that was created.

There was all types of systems: a surplus removal system, a floor price system, price control, control over quantities of a product marketed in a particular area, controls over the quality of the products that could be sold and even regulating the quantities that could be imported and exported, and a single-channel market.

This completely post-1930s Depression type of system ruled the scene until the Marketing of Agricultural Products Act of 1996 was introduced by the present Government. This Act completely changed the profile of the marketing of agricultural products by doing away with elaborate control measures and by introducing a free-market system. It worked very well. It was a very tough environment for the commercial farming community, but they showed their mettle and weathered the storm. Some are doing excellently. Exports are growing and we are not doing badly at all.

The new Act put in place transitional measures to allow for the smooth changeover from a completely controlled environment to a free-market system. Parliamentary committees played a significant role in the process of 1996. Executive involvement was provided for parliamentary committees with the levy system and the establishment of the Agricultural Marketing Council, which guided the changeover to the free-market system. The idea was to bring political representivity to the major transition taking place. That transition is completed.

A number of insignificant legal matters, like the recovery of money owed to the former boards, are still outstanding. That is about all that is still outstanding.

The constitutional environment has also changed. The distinction between the functions of the legislature, judiciary and executive are becoming more prominent. I listened with interest to the motion by the hon Botha, who asked for accounting by the executive to Parliament. That is correct. The executive should not only be accountable to the political opposition, but also to its own party and the provinces.

The principal Act is being amended to provide for these changes and other technical matters. I want to repeat the accounting mechanisms the Constitution makes provision for. Section 55 of the Constitution says that the National Assembly should provide for mechanisms to ensure that the executive organs of state are accountable to the National Assembly.

Secondly, the Constitution says Parliament should maintain oversight over the executive’s exercising of its powers. This includes the implementation of legislation. In other words, Parliament needs to put in place mechanisms, more than legislation, to control the executive and monitor its actions.

Other sections of the Constitution also refer to it, for example section 42, which says the National Assembly, as a national forum, should scrutinise and oversee the actions of the executive and that Cabinet members are collectively and individually accountable to a body such as the NCOP. This is where we want to hear the questions of the provinces.

A problem of crossed lines of accountability occurs when Parliament or its committees start exercising their executive functions. It means that Parliament is then accountable to itself. If Parliament appoints members of an executive body such as the Agricultural Marketing Council and they do not perform well or cause problems, who is accountable? Who was responsible for appointing them? Parliament. That is the problem.

Judge Heath handled a well-known case, reported in 2001, which dealt with the matter of the division of the powers in the state. In this case the judge said: ``The Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, 1996, provides for a separation of powers between the executive, the legislature and the judiciary.’’ Laws inconsistent with that Constitution are invalid.

In this case the arguments were about the separation of powers between the executive and the judiciary, but they were also valid for the division of powers between the executive and the legislature. This amending Bill tries to correct this position. It proposes that parliamentary committees no longer be involved in the appointment of members of the Agricultural Marketing Council.

At present the Minister appoints its members after consultation with the parliamentary committees, which makes it quite an extensive process. The Minister is given two names of which she has to choose one. The role of the council is executive in nature, and there is no doubt about that.

The Bill also proposes that parliamentary committees no longer be involved in the approval of statutory measures, including levies, in terms of the Marketing of Agricultural Products Act. Regarding the representation of industries, the national Agricultural Marketing Council usually appoints advisory committees to advise it on matters.

Knowledgeable people should be appointed to the advisory committees of the council. If they are compelled to only appoint people from directly affected groups, we know exactly what such people would do. They would try to protect their own industry and interests. They would not look at the broader marketing picture. We therefore try to appoint people suitable for the task at hand, rather than using blanket requirements.

I want to refer to a few other major amendments in the Bill. I am sure hon members will refer to this in their speeches. The Bill aims to facilitate the application of the Public Finance Management Act regarding the fiscal and auditing requirements for the National Agricultural Marketing Council.

The Public Finance Management Act necessitates these amendments, which are consequential in nature. The Act also makes provision for matters standing over from the old Marketing Act, like the utilisation of levies imposed under this Act. These are not the same levies as those imposed by the former control boards.

Provision is made for the transfer of funds to the trusts established under the new marketing Act to promote the objectives of the Marketing of Agricultural Products Act.

By the way, I am not always satisfied with the operation of our different trusts. We are now trying to amend one of the trust deeds which makes provision for, on the one hand, research out of the proceeds of the trust and, on the other, developmental work, like access to marketing to assist previously disadvantaged farmers. The Minister cannot really control more money going to development work. Some of the trust deeds, I must say, should be reviewed, but this is difficult. It is out of the control of the Ministry now, because one must have consensus between the parties when one amends a trust. I also want to say that we must still think of where we are going with the National Agricultural Marketing Council. The present amendments which we are effecting are mostly technical. They are about the appointment of the members and the way levies are handled. Where are we really going with the marketing council? On the one hand, it is important for us to consider the relationship between the department and the National Agricultural Marketing Council. Our idea was that the NAMC looked at the internal position of marketing in South Africa. We have a very powerful section in the department as well - looking at international marketing situations, the relationship with the WTO, international trade. How are we really going to go forward in this matter? We finished this phase of transition.

I can only say that we will consult extensively with the portfolio committees on the way forward with the National Agricultural Marketing Council. Next year we must start developing a strategy on this matter and see where we must go.

The challenges in Africa and generally in South Africa, in particular, in the marketing of agricultural products are huge. There are huge challenges. Let me put it this way. One cannot succeed in the agriculture of a country by just concentrating on production. One will go nowhere. One must first work on marketing, and then one can go forward.

We sit with a terrible problem throughout Africa and in South Africa as well of large underdeveloped agricultural areas. Why are there no feedlots in the traditional areas? If we want to use the American Africa Growth and Opportunity Act, we can export a lot if we get our vital sanitary matters right. We can export a lot of meat to America. But we do not have productive areas in the traditional areas and it is possible to do this and to develop these areas. That is the type of marketing initiative we need.

I think we must build up the NAMC. We must look again at where we are going. We must look at the relationship with the department and build on this so that it works for South Africa. We have finished now with the control systems, the breakdown of them and we have moved into a free-market system. Now we must really use this to work for South Africa.

There are also a few other matters in the Bill with which I will end. I am sure that hon members of the select committee must be thanked for the work they have done on this. I am very glad that we have come this far, but this is not the end of the road of the marketing problem in South Africa. [Applause.]

Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, members of this House, special delegates, the Marketing of Agricultural Products Amendment Bill has been considered by all the nine provinces and, after considering it, they all support this Bill.

This Bill is essential to consolidating the Marketing of Agricultural Products Act of 1996 by tightening the principles laid out in that Act, and assures us that the days of single-channel marketing, fixed prices and control board domination are over. The South African Government has intervened extensively in agricultural pricing and marketing in the past. This exercising of statutory controls and allocation of subsidies has favoured powerful interests groups, such as certain larger commercial farmers, agricultural processes and control boards. The needs of low-income consumers and small farmers in the then Bantustans have been neglected, whilst employment in the agricultural sector turned to cheap labour and declined.

This Bill before us aims to bring the Act in line with the Constitution. It does this by streamlining the processes of appointment of members to the National Agricultural Marketing Council. Formerly, these processes were dealt with by parliamentary committees, as the Deputy Minister has said. This role of parliamentary committees caused problems in the administration of the Act as it confused the roles of the legislature and the executive, which roles are clearly distinguished in the Constitution, and it also caused lengthy delays.

The amending of section 22 is to oblige the Minister to consult the National Agricultural Marketing Council, instead of parliamentary committees, as already said. It will also ensure that the Minister consults the body that was created especially by the Act in order to advise the Minister, that is the National Agricultural Marketing Council, which may undertake investigations and advise the Minister regarding marketing policy and application, the co-ordination of agricultural policy in relation to national economic, social and development policies, and international trends and developments.

The council that was established to advise the Minister is consulted and the Minister is now subject to oversight by Parliament, as intended by section 42(3) of the Constitution, instead of parliamentary committees being placed in the position of being both player and referee, which is the case at present.

However, for the sake of streamlining our legislature and making it consistent with the spirit of the Constitution, we have simplified the process of calling for nominations for appointment to the National Agricultural Marketing Council. This Bill proposes that invitation for nomination be published in the Gazette and departmental newsletters, as well as in general media statements and by invitation to the parliamentary committee.

The Minister shall also establish a selection committee, and appoint such candidates from the list recommended by the selection committee. The Minister must within 30 days after making any appointment inform the parliamentary committees in writing of the appointment made.

We need a total commitment to and maximum participation of the population in agricultural business, and not as a retirement or part-time exercise to keep old people and women busy while men are working in the cities. Agriculture must be seen as a serious business for all, not just for commercial farmers, but also for small-scale and subsistence farmers.

This Bill also provides for consequential amendments following the promulgation of the Public Finance Management Act of 1999, section 53 of the Public Finance Management Act of 1999, and business schedule 3 public entities. The National Agricultural Marketing Council is listed as one of the schedule 3 public entities and this Bill brings the Act in line with the Public Finance Management Act.

The Bill also provides for amendments to clarify the procedures that apply in the case of levies, and clearly states the public nature of and control over levies collected. This Bill also addresses a lacuna in the Act regarding the disposal of levies that were collected under the repealed Marketing Act of 1968. It does this by validating the collection and utilisation of those levies before 28 February 1999.

In conclusion, it is my pleasure, therefore, to submit the Marketing of Agricultural Products Amendment Bill to the Council. We therefore support this Bill and the policy that underpins it. [Applause.]

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, we are fully aware of the fact that the National Agricultural Marketing Council is not a decision-making institution and only recommends to the Minister, who has those powers. We are aware of the fact that the section 7 committees may be instituted by the council to assist the council.

We are also aware of the problems of having the directly affected groups as mentioned by the Deputy Minister, included. However, we want to caution that although the council is not obliged to accommodate them, they should always be sensitive to the fact that it would be better to include them and have consensus with them, rather than leaving them out.

We are also concerned about the fact that Parliament, through its committees, now has no specific role to play in the appointment of council members. We urge the hon the Minister to embark on a transparent process and to keep the standing and the select committees of Parliament informed throughout the process of appointing councillors.

We are in touch, especially in this Council, with various role-players at grass-roots level and can assist the Minister in not making unnecessary mistakes in the appointment of councillors. Agriculture and the marketing of its products, as mentioned by the Deputy Minister, are two vital aspects not only in the South African economy, but also as empowerment instruments. For these reasons, the Minister must have access to the best advice available, and we want to assist.

We agree with the division of powers, as set out by the Deputy Minister, and we do not argue wanting to appoint the councillors, but just to be able to give inputs, which can be ignored by the Minister. We do not want to appoint councillors, and I do not think we ever did actually.

The Deputy Minister - I nearly said President and that would have been a great mistake really - has also pointed out aspects about the levies.

Dit is baie belangrik dat die surplusheffings, wat na die trusts toe gaan, miskien toegewys moet word aan dié bedrywe wat die heffings betaal het. Dit moet nie net wyd aangewend word nie.

Die voerkrale waarna die adjunkminister verwys het, is ‘n baie belangrike aspek. Ons probleem in die Suid-Afrikaanse landbou is juis dat daar ‘n klomp entrepreneurs is en talle produksieprojekte begin word. Die minister het ook dié probleem uitgewys.

Ons moet mark- en nie tegnologie- of produkgedrewe wees nie. Voerkrale het ‘n wonderlike byvoordeel. Velle en huide se gehalte sal onmiddellik styg. Op sy beurt sal dit weer ‘n bykomende bedryf in Suid-Afrika kan stimuleer.

Ons moet egter eers markte kry en die mense wat projekte aanbeveel en geld vir landbouprojekte insamel, bewus maak daarvan dat dit markgerig moet wees. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[It is very important that the surplus levies, which go to the trusts, should perhaps be awarded to those industries that paid the levies. They should not simply be applied broadly.

The feedlots to which the Deputy Minister referred are a very important aspect. Our problem in South African agriculture is that there are many entrepreneurs and many production projects are started. The Minister also alluded to this problem.

We have to be market-driven and not technology or product-driven. Feedlots have a wonderful spin-off. The quality of skins and hides will immediately improve. This, in turn, can stimulate an additional industry in South Africa.

However, first we must have the markets, and the people that recommend projects and collect money for agricultural projects must be made aware of the fact that this has to be market-oriented. [Applause.]]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! The special delegate from KwaZulu-Natal is not here so we shall proceed to Ms Rossouw of the Western Cape.

Ms A ROSSOUW (Western Cape): Chairperson, Deputy Minister, Prof Du Toit, South African agriculture is currently in an enviable position in that certain sections of the sector share many of the characteristics of a developing economy, while the commercial farming sector shares many of the features of a developed economy and is also changing in the same way.

It follows that decision-makers can either chart a traditional agricultural development route, or they can develop a strategy that will catapult domestic agriculture into the information society. This is because it is tensioned between industrialised and nonindustrialised farm products, which is a characteristic of information society agriculture. Such a strategy should, inter alia, make provision for meeting the demand for nonindustrialised farm produce through the development and implementation of an internationally recognised enabling framework for terra-based farm products. Part of this leg should comprise research on defining terra-based products, agritourism and demand and supply of nonindustrialised farm produce.

South Africa’s developing agriculture, especially with its wealth of traditional knowledge, may benefit. There should be understanding of the dynamics and social costs and benefits of supply chains in order to develop appropriate support services like research, extension and training for farmers, especially family farmers.

There should also be special support measures for marginalised commodity farmers caught outside supply chains or in nonindustrialised agriculture. A reconsideration of policy frameworks should be undertaken to ensure that the policies are appropriate for environments where local and international trade will more and more be within the vertically integrated chains rather than between organisations. Issues should include trade, intellectual property rights, and especially publicly funded research results, farmer support and farmer support services.

Teen dié agtergrond ondersteun die Wes-Kaapse regering die wetsontwerp. Dit kan op die lang termyn bydra om die werksaamhede van die nasionale landboubemarkingsraad te stroomlyn. Die wetsontwerp maak voorsiening vir die nuwe prosedures.

Ek wil my skaar by diegene wat bekommerd is oor die feit dat staande komitees op landbou in die toekoms nie meer by die aanstelling van raadslede betrokke sal wees nie. Uit eie ervaring, ook in die Wes-Kaap, was dit ‘n proses wat elke parlementslid, ongeag politieke party, tevrede gestel het oor die gehalte van benoemdes. Dit bly steeds die reg van die minister om uiteindelik die aanstelling te maak.

Steeds in belang van landbou, bly ons by ons standpunt dat ons die wetsontwerp ondersteun omdat dit sal bydra tot die bevordering van landbou in Suid-Afrika. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Against this background the Western Cape government supports this Bill. In the long term this can contribute to streamlining the activities of the National Agricultural Marketing Council. This Bill provides for the new procedures.

I would like to associate myself with those who are concerned about the fact that the standing committees on agriculture will in future not be involved with the appointment of councillors. Speaking from my own experience, also in the Western Cape, this was a process that satisfied every member of Parliament, irrespective of political party, about the quality of the nominees. It is still the right of the Minister to make the appointment in the end.

Still in the interests of agriculture, we stand by our viewpoint that we support this Bill because it will contribute to the promotion of agriculture in South Africa. [Applause.]] Mev A M VERSFELD: Voorsitter, die totstandkoming van ‘n vrye mark vir landbouprodukte is deel van die proses van die ontwikkeling en groei van die Suid-Afrikaanse landboubedryf.

Dit het tot so ‘n mate ontwikkel dat Suid-Afrika een van die min lande ter wêreld is wat, sonder staatsubsidies, ‘n netto-uitvoerder van landbouprodukte is. Hy ding op internasionale markte mee en dit het tot gevolg gehad dat staatsbetrokkenheid in die bemarking van die landbouprodukte afgeskaal het tot die punt dat statutêre ingrepe drasties afgeskaal en uitgefaseer word.

Die vrye mark vir landbouprodukte in Suid-Afrika het vele gevolge en implikasies wat nie altyd besef word nie. Eerstens reageer die vrye mark op vraag en aanbod en wanbalanse in die mark kan lei tot groot ontwrigting, veral vir die kleiner boer wat nie altyd die wisseling van pryse finansieel kan hanteer nie.

Die tweede kenmerk is die wisseling van pryse in antwoord op die vraag-en- aanbodbalans. Hoë pryse vir landbouprodukte is altyd gekoppel aan hoë risiko’s. Die regering moet van sy kant af toesien dat vestigingsprogramme aan die volhoubaarheidsbeginsel voldoen.

Die grootste probleem wat landbou binne die heersende vrye bemarkingsbeleid in Suid-Afrika ervaar, is dat die boer uitgelewer word aan die wispelturige mark en die natuur. Soos die agb adjunkminister weet, bied die owerheid baie beperkte hulpmaatreëls. Ek meen daar is slegs een vir veeboere.

Ek wil graag ‘n voorstel op die tafel sit om die landbouer by te staan. In goeie jare kan ‘n gedeelte van sy inkomste belastingvry opsy gesit word om vir maerder jare te vergoed.

Die vrye mark bepaal dat daar so min as moontlik van regeringskant ingemeng moet word. Waar die regering wel betrokke is, moet dit op deursigtige wyse geskied. Na my mening gee die wetgewing een persoon, die minister, al die mag in die hand. As dit egter sal help om die beleid vinnig deur te voer, ondersteun die DP die wetgewing. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mrs A M VERSFELD: Chairperson, the establishment of a free market for agricultural products is part of the process of the development and growth of the South African agricultural industry.

It has developed to such an extend that South Africa is one of the few countries in the world which, without state subsidies, is a net exporter of agricultural products. South Africa competes in international markets and this has led to state involvement in the marketing of agricultural products being scaled down to the point where statutory interventions are being drastically scaled down and phased out.

The free market for agricultural products in South Africa has many consequences and implications which are not always realised. Firstly, the free market responds to supply and demand and imbalances in the market can lead to great disruption, particularly for smaller farmers who cannot always deal financially with the fluctuation of prices.

The second characteristic is the fluctuation of prices in response to the supply-and-demand balance. High prices for agricultural products are always linked to high risks. For its part, the Government must see to it that start-up programmes comply with the principle of sustainability.

The biggest problem experienced by agriculture within the prevailing free- market policy in South Africa, is that the farmer is at the mercy of the fickle market and of nature. As the hon the Deputy Minister knows, the Government offers restricted aid measures. I think there is only one for cattle farmers.

I would like to place on the table a proposal to assist the farmer. In good years a portion of his revenue can be set aside, tax-free, to compensate for leaner years.

The free market determines that there should be as little government intervention as possible. Where the government is involved, this must take place in a transparent manner. In my opinion, the legislation gives one person, the Minister, all the power. However, if it would help to have the policy adopted quickly, the DP supports the legislation. [Applause.]]

Mr P NKAYI (Eastern Cape): Chairperson, we support this amendment. We believe this demonstrates very clearly the maturity of our democracy, firstly because we imagine it should not be easy for people who are given the privilege of power to take a step to legislate themselves out of their power, which is what this committee has done.

I think the Bill talks sufficiently about representivity in terms of the marketing of agricultural products, as well as financial accountability. We think that the Bill addresses this sufficiently.

We think it makes both political and economical sense for legislatures to take into account all of these points when they enter, especially given the nature of the global situation, into relations with other economic actors of the world.

Mr P I MALEFANE (Gauteng): Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister and members, one man was asked to deliver a speech and was given the topic of sex. He took the stand and said the following: ``Ladies and gentlemen, I greet you all. It gives me great pleasure. I thank you.’’ And he sat down. [Laughter.] That was the shortest speech I ever heard in my life. I am tempted to follow in those particular footsteps.

As Gauteng we do not have much to say on the proposed amendments, given that the issues that were raised during our public hearings were adequately addressed. We are also encouraged to know that the Bill seeks to ensure that moneys collected as levies will be used in a manner that promotes agricultural products and assists in the development of the industry. We are confident that those that have been on the periphery of the mainstream of agriculture will now have an opportunity of tapping into those resources to promote their agricultural produce. It is with this understanding that we do not hesitate to support the Bill and vote in favour of it. [Applause.]

Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, our guests and all our hon members, we are debating the Marketing of Agricultural Products Amendment Bill, which is largely of a technical nature. We know full well that the majority of our people still do not own much of the land, yet they labour for much of its products with very little return for their labour.

Even after many years of life spent farming for subsistence, quite a few of them are then evicted from these farms. Some do not get to bury their loved ones or even visit them. It is also hurtful to see where the farmworkers live as human beings, whereas farm owners would not house their own children like that. Many farmers do not make much profit on the land because of unpredictable seasonal rains on overused soil that is so ill-nourished that has it to be revitalised with chemicals in order to produce.

Farmers have gone bankrupt through drought and the flooding of markets with substandard products from overseas, where they are subsidised by their own governments. It is time we boosted our ``Buy South African’’ campaign. We need to act now. The ANC-led Government of South Africa was concerned about the situation, and that is why it passed the Marketing of Agricultural Products Act in 1996. Now there is a potential for steady growth, production and marketing of products for all who choose to make a meaningful contribution to our beloved motherland.

The Bill proposes to amend the Act to allow new procedures for collecting levies which are currently in a trust fund that helps some farmers. These farmers will now be freed to be used to train in subsidised projects that boost agriculture and its products in our country. This will also enable more South Africans to utilise their God-given time, talents and energy, locally and abroad.

The Minister now has direct communication and works with provincial departments of agriculture and is free to appoint whoever may be suitable to ensure that the spirit and vision of the Acts are realised and put into practice.

The Bill hopes to limit opportunities for corruption and the embezzlement of levies and funds by providing guidelines for their administration. It also desires to alter certain procedures irrespective of financial matters, so that it may be in agreement with the Public Finance Management Act of

1. It will also enable the Minister to dissolve the old boards that operate under the Marketing Act of 1968, which has now been repealed. These old boards did not include farm owners and farmworkers, who were marginalised by race and colour. Many farmworkers did not know of this Act, but produced agricultural products, and they were also used to market them as unskilled labourers.

In the pursuit of justice, the Bill will show how the levies will be collected and used and records kept. It states specifically that no levies shall form part of any person’s assets, even if also a body or organisation. It demands that all levies used and those that may remain must be accounted for in a way that is determined for their safety and efficiency. This too must satisfy the Auditor-General, who will audit the records annually. It is this Bill that will strengthen the control, import and export of agricultural products in order to maintain high standards of health, safety, production, packaging and efficiency. It empowers the Minister and the provincial departments to stop, demand and allow products that do not comply with standards that are required.

It is therefore important that the Department of Agriculture be given a better budget so that more of our young people can be trained to discover the wide choices of growth, development and job satisfaction that are available in the field of agriculture. Agriculture is the lifeline of all nations. Our young people can train in order to open, operate and maintain markets overseas and throughout the continent. For this a great future has already come. The field is wide open. Personnel are needed, for without agriculture, no person, bird or animal can survive, no business can exist and our health and economic future will be doomed. We will be cursed by our future generations. We therefore support this amending Bill.

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Chairperson, I must thank the members for the debate and quite interesting observations that have been made.

I always enjoy listening to the Rev Chabaku. There is something optimistic about her, and she can make any subject interesting. I think she should go into marketing. From the Free State, we are born marketers, I always find that her speeches are very optimistic.

I would like to thank the hon Malefane, who gave a very sexy speech, as well as the hon Nkayi. Mrs Versfeld talked like a real farmer. She is a farmer, and that is why she is complaining about weather and the market. Those are two basic things.

‘n Mens is oorgelewer aan die mark en oorgelewer aan die weer. Die agb lid het my innige simpatie. [One is at the mercy of the market and at the mercy of the weather. The hon member has my heartfelt sympathy.]

But what she is actually bringing to the fore is that modern risk management practices are integral to successful farming. Risk management is actually a very difficult science, and we have very few people in South Africa who are really good at risk management. It is actually a mathematical science.

I agree. The market is quite fickle, as is the weather. But that is the challenge of farming. We have a problem, worldwide, of declining prices of products while the inputs are always going up. But we have seen how our farmers cope with it. For example, we have seen it with the rise in diesel prices. The farmers started to be more efficient in using their diesel. They used it in a way in which they could cope with rising prices. I know that it is still a problem, and it will remain a problem. But it is also true that if you give a challenge to a farmer, whether he is an emerging farmer, a small farmer, a big farmer or a medium farmer, I have always seen farmers being able to rise to the occasion. There are a tough lot, farmers are, and they can do it. I admire them tremendously.

I thank Mrs Versfeld. We do not have a lot of power in the Minister’s hands. That is not what it is about at all. I know of one thing, namely that there is nothing like power in the Minister’s hand in agriculture because one will most probably be wrong. Agriculture is so difficult, and marketing is so difficult. If one thinks that one can control that, it springs out on the other side and it just gives one the opposite results. One cannot move without good advice. That is the secret of the game. The Ministry must stay close to the different sectors in agriculture because they really know what the game is about.

I thank the hon Ms Rossouw for a very well-researched address. I was most impressed by the knowledge available in the Western Cape about agriculture. I thank her for the information.

I can tell Mrs Van Niekerk that we will remain sensitive to all sectors. That is the way in which one has to drive this process because in the end the Government cannot market and farm. It is a bad farmer and a bad marketer. This is for civil society and its sectors to do their own job. We must create the frameworks. We must assist in creating the support systems apart from subsidising. That is not what I am talking about, but rather to create the regulating frameworks, and we will talk more about it when we come to animal health just now. That is the way to have the systems to support it.

Indeed, we must be transparent in the appointments. But what we need is an NAMC that can really build and help us to build the marketing of agricultural products in South Africa. We must succeed. We are quite successful as farmers in South Africa at the moment. The sector as a whole changes South Africa. But we can always do better and we need an NAMC which can help us. We must get the best advice available to do the right things.

I thank the members for this opportunity and the support. [Applause.]

Debate concluded

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                         ANIMAL HEALTH BILL

            (Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Chairperson, the Animal Health Bill before the Council is actually very important for us.

This is typical of the type of thing which we also talked about when considering the previous Bill. What is the role of Government? Government must create the frameworks and systems for the industry to produce.

Another thing about this Bill is that it creates a co-operative system which we think it is an example of how national and provincial governments must work together. We have a formula that we also developed in the Meat Safety Bill, and basically we have the same pattern in the Animal Health Bill.

The problem is basically this: Animal health and food safety are the same thing. When one looks at the international position one sees that the only way that one can get acknowledgement for food safety and animal health internationally, when one exports or imports, is by meeting the requirement that the national government must certify. There is no way that one can export meat from Germany and get the government of Bavaria to certify the meat as safe. The international agreements work in such a way that the national government must certify. That is the first consideration.

The second consideration is this. Animal diseases do not operate provincially. Foot-and-mouth viruses and anthrax bacteria do not know where the border is between the Free State and the Northern Cape. When we had the anthrax problem in the Northern the Cape last year, just near Kimberley, it was typical: It came from the game and got into the cattle. People were infected by the cattle, and we had deaths there amongst the Batlhaping people.

But when I came there, I was in the district of Boshoff, next door in the Free State, and I found out that they thought that this thing was in the Northern Cape, while in fact one of the farms, which extended across the border between the Northern Cape and Free State, had a bit of a problem as well. These diseases do not know provincial borders. That was also the basic problem with the control of foot-and-mouth disease in Europe and Britain now recently. It was affected by the movement of people and the movement of cattle, the movement of meat and the movement of products.

It is a national thing when we have a problem. It breaks out at any place. So what must we create? In the provinces the veterinarians are on the ground, so we must create a system of intensive co-operation and co- ordination between the national level and the provincial level. In this Bill I think we have put down a system which is practical and which I hope we can make work very well with the co-operation of the provinces, and that is also the intention of our administration.

It works in this way. A national executive officer is appointed at national level and there is provision for the assignment of certain duties and also of delegation to MECs and, through MECs, to other officials to the provinces. The system will be just as good as it is organised. It will depend on provinces putting the funds aside to make it work really well.

We have to do this because when there is an animal disease crisis, it is a big crisis; it is almost a war situation. If only the House had seen what we had to do in Kwazulu-Natal when we had the outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease: One needs the army to provide manpower and womanpower, to close the roads, to stand guard, to clean people’s feet and to clean the cars with antiseptic.

The chief executive officer must have the powers of a general, as in a war situation, to be able to close farms, to do this and that, to remove cattle or pigs, to move things and to close roads. In fact, the powers given in this Bill are almost like powers in a war situation. It is the only way.

If one has a loose type of approach towards this type of disease, one can destroy whole sectors of the economy. The farmers in Britain are ruined. The tourist industry has taken a dip that one cannot believe. So this is a serious matter. Of course it is the accountability here that makes a body like the NCOP, to my mind, so important. If we have a problem in Mpumalanga on the border of the Kruger Park, then our NCOP must bring it here so that we can talk about these matters. That is the way that we must go.

The House will see that in this Bill there are now very good powers for fencing. We need these. We have a problem with the fence between Zimbabwe and South Africa, which used to be a military fence, but now is mostly used for animal disease purposes. It has to be maintained and we need powers for our officials to put a fence where there is a need for it.

I must thank the provinces, the legislatures and the committees, including the select committees here, for doing the work on this very complicated Bill, but this Bill must change the position which we had previously. It is actually a constitutional requirement that we amend this Bill.

Globalisation is enforcing this approach, and only if we have phytosanitary and sanitary systems in place can we hope to expand our exports. At the moment exports in meat are steadily rising, but we do have problems. We had a problem with consignments to Saudi Arabia, for example, to which, based on completely wrong information, we were banned from exporting. These were big consignments. The assumption was that the foot-and-mouth disease was still affecting the position, while it was not. People just read something on the Internet and proposed a ban.

I am not saying that that is how this matter is being handled in detail, but the point is this: We cannot succeed in building exports without having an excellent system of veterinary controls in place. The single most important reason for failing is not having that in place. We must succeed. I admit it is difficult. It is complicated these days, with different new techniques in farming and animal husbandry which make it more difficult. If one runs a feedlot, for example, it is basically a sanitation works that one is running, so one’s hygienic controls must be excellent. That is the priority when one runs such an operation.

Let me just say another thing about economic growth in Africa, in South Africa, in the deprived areas of South Africa. The place to give a kick- start to economic development is animal husbandry. There is a huge trend of animal production moving from the developed world to the developing countries, because we have a competitive edge, naturally, without the financial support of government. We can do it, and it is happening all over the world. In the Far East there is a huge revolution, almost, in animal production. It is happening in parts of the north of Africa. South of the Sahara it is not really happening, except in South Africa’s highly commercialised sectors, but the place to start growth in the traditional areas in South Africa is by animal production.

We have people there who know how to work with animals, but they need support and incentives to be able to put up the production. A large part of making it succeed in the traditional areas is animal disease control. We can put up the productivity of cattle, goats and sheep hugely, almost to revolutionary levels, just by giving some veterinary attention there, just by getting the systems working. When the animal production goes up, then there is surplus production. We cannot accept that we must stay with subsistence agriculture in those areas forever and throughout Africa. Those areas can attain levels of productivity and can start to add value, but then the infrastructure must be put in place, and that infrastructure is this Bill.

The first is ensuring animal disease control and the second is preparing roads there and so on, but this is the start. Animal production is the way to kick-start economic life there. We have seen that, for example, with sheep, with the shed systems, just learning how to cut wool in some parts of the Eastern Cape can mean that the income in that small region, almost a small district, can multiply eight or nine times in one year just from the income of wool and good sheep husbandry. This is the way to go.

I am sorry, I have been talking about the politics of this matter, and I hope the reverend will tell us more about the Bill. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, hon members, I am also tempted to talk as the hon the Deputy Minister was talking, and not to speak about what the Bill says. There was a concern from other provinces that the consultation was not according to expectations. There were those who said that traditional leaders had not been consulted as had been expected.

We feel this Bill challenges the entire country. We should work together as white blood cells where this disease is taking hold. We should be ready to address these situations, otherwise great numbers of animals will have to be killed and burnt. That is a direct attack on our economy, etc.

Information should therefore not remain with commercial farmers, but should reach subsistence, emerging farmers - in fact, all members of society.

The Bill before us is one of the most important pieces of legislation to be passed by our Government to help us regulate and control the health of animals, animal products and by-products. One of the biggest problems of livestock farmers in South Africa and the SADC region is the large number of animal diseases on our continent. It is only through effective animal disease control and utilisation of updated remedies that we will be able to prevent a small outbreak from becoming an epidemic.

The whole nation was sensitised to the importance of having the appropriate legislative framework firmly in place to assist provinces in particular and the nation in general, especially during natural disasters such as the outbreak of foot-and-mouth disease. For those who still do not know, this disease is an acute, highly contagious viral infection of domestic and wild cloven-hoofed animals, often resulting in an extremely high mortality rate, especially in young animals.

I am sure most of us have very clear memories of the foot-and-mouth epidemic that started in mid-September last year in KwaZulu-Natal. Those of us who are not farmers heard about the disease for the first time. Only a few weeks before, some had seen the reports of the outbreak of foot-and- mouth disease in the United Kingdom. At that time we heard that the last time South Africa had experienced anything similar to the proportions of the unfolding disease was in 1956, when 3 000 head of cattle were destroyed. Little did we know that our own crisis would rear almost out of control.

As new outbreaks were discovered across the length and breadth of KwaZulu- Natal, both South Africans and the international community realised that the increasing incidents reported far exceeded what had happened in 1956. ``A national crisis’’ was how the DG, Bongiwe Njobe, described the events.

We watched as the national Department of Agriculture and all the role- players in KwaZulu-Natal started the drastic measures needed to control this disease. From the initial reports from KwaZulu-Natal and the surrounding area, it spread to almost the entire KwaZulu-Natal. The disease control units of the provincial and national governments and their support structures placed KwaZulu-Natal under strict quarantine. Some areas were entirely shut off with road blocks. Workers armed with disinfectants guarded the comings and goings of people and animals into and out of the area.

The Agricultural Research Council also offered their assistance through clinical and epidemiological investigations, laboratory services, investigations of suspected cases and checking of the infectivity status of animals throughout the country through serological surveillance.

Thousands of cloven-hoofed animals in the surrounding area that could potentially become infected were inoculated. As the disease continued to spread, the international community began imposing partial and complete bans of South African meats and products. Eventually thousands of heads of cattle were not only killed, but their carcasses burned to destroy the infection completely.

It was clear that a new risk management system was needed. It had to be one that would outline norms and standards necessary for the containment and monitoring of animal diseases in line with both national and international standards. This new risk management system needed to anticipate challenges and to respond effectively and efficiently to disease disasters. This risk management system also needed to take cognisance of the fact that disease knows no boundary. [Applause.]

Mrs A M VERSFELD: Chairperson, the fact that this Act was drafted in consultation with provinces through the ITCA working groups, the ITC head of department and Minmec, and that this Bill was also drafted in order to bring animal health legislation in line with our Constitution, is very reassuring.

Measures to prevent and control the occurrence of animal diseases are according to international norms and standards. The Office International des Epizooties, or OIE is an international organisation which gives guidance on all animal health issues. The organisation draws minimum standards, guidelines and procedures for the control and prevention of animal diseases. It also guides countries on the measures which need to be followed when trading with one another. The OIE serves as the standard formulating body to the World Trade Organisation which deals with trade. The fact that these international standards serve as guidelines for animal health in the country is also very reassuring.

Animal health is a concurrent function between national and provincial government. The responsibility of the national Departments of Agriculture and Land Affairs is to ensure that policy formulation, norms and standards are maintained, while provinces implement the policy.

The MEC must designate an officer who is a veterinarian to the province as the provincial executive officer. This officer may delegate any power or duty to any officer under his or her control. The provincial executive officer should, on a regular basis, provide the national executive officer with reports of the functions monitored under the Act. The NEO may require in writing certain information from the PEO or any other person for the purpose of monitoring.

I regard the section on the restriction on exportation as very important. This section is new and does not exist under the current Act. The purpose of introducing this section is to ensure health guarantees for all animals and animal products exported under this Bill.

This is to maintain the integrity of the country and to ensure that all animals and animal products exported from South Africa do not pose any health risk to the importing country. South African veterinary services have been challenged before where animals or animal products of a lesser health status were exported.

Importing countries set requirements for the importation of animals and animal products. There are countries where there are no conditions for the importation of animals and animal products. In such situations, when a problem arises, it is not an individual who will be blamed for the outbreak of diseases, but South Africa. This affects the South African market in animals and animal products, and no one will trust South African products. I think this is extremely important. I would like to refer to the Deputy Minister, who said that we should have an excellent system of veterinary services in this country. I absolutely agree with him.

Earlier this year, in the Budget Vote, I asked the Minister why they had cut down on agricultural research, especially at Onderstepoort. We know for a fact that Onderstepoort is losing its best doctors and researchers. Where do they go? Not overseas. They go to countries like Kenya, because of the conditions they work under.

Die omstandighede waarin hulle werk, is baie beter as dié in Suid-Afrika.

Dié wetgewing is absoluut noodsaaklik, maar dit kan nie alleen staan sonder die nodige navorsing nie. As ons navorsing se geld afskaal tot die vlak waarop dit nou is, kan ek nie sien hoe dié wet enigsins vir ons van waarde gaan wees wat siektes betref nie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [The conditions they work under are much better than those in South Africa.

This legislation is absolutely essential, but it cannot stand alone without the necessary research. If we are scaling down funding for research to its current level, I fail to see how this Act is going to be of any value to us in respect of diseases. [Applause.]]

Ms A ROSSOUW (Western Cape): Madam Chair, hon Deputy Minister, in principle the Western Cape supports the proposed Bill. However, I would like to comment on certain clauses of this Bill. In terms of clause 4, designation of assignees can be done only by the national Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs, and this could be challenged in terms of section 35(2)(b) of the constitution of the Western Cape, in that it does not allow a free choice to the province to decide who would be allowed to render a service.

This clause was copied in total from the Agricultural Product Standards Act, and also incorporated into the Meat Safety Act. The Agricultural Product Standards Act is, however, the sole function and executive responsibility of the national Department of Agriculture, while the proposed Animal Health Bill defines a concurrent responsibility between provinces and the national authority.

The province should therefore have the right to appoint assignees to deliver services within the province if the need arises, and should not be subject to the appointment thereof by the national Minister. Although clause 11, which addresses the control over quarantine stations, is assigned to the provincial authority in clause 5, assurances must be given that a province, as the first line of defence against the introduction of disease, would have the prerogative to defend its own interest in terms of imported animals or animal products via its control over quarantine stations.

The ideal would be that the province takes control over quarantine stations as an assigned function, and that the service rendered be ordered or monitored by the national department. Clause 8(5)(a) prohibits the export of animals or animal products, and is not assigned to provinces in terms of clause 5 of the Bill.

However, the provincial veterinary authority is in the best position to determine the risk for the importing country, and should have the authority to refuse the export of an animal or animal products, if it poses a risk to the importing country. This subclause is also not compatible with clause 8(1) in terms of which the provincial authority can certify the export of a product, but not refuse exports in terms of subclause 8(5)(a).

Clause 16 - the animal health schemes - is assigned to provinces in terms of clause 5, but it should be made clear if a province can initiate its own animal health scheme disease surveillance programmes with the aim of establishing sanitary guarantees and export facilitation, for example a scheme with the aim of zoning a province free of a particular disease required as a prerequisite for export certification. The Bill gives national and provincial governments concurrent functions in which the majority of the functions of the Bill are assigned to the province. The Bill retains basic principles of animal disease control, which is in accordance with international norms and standards. It provides for facilities such as the establishment of quarantine stations and animal health schemes, and also describes the duties, responsibilities and obligations of animal owners.

The new provisions of the Bill provide for the assignment of executive authorities to provinces and the assignment of certain functions and administration by the national Minister to nongovernmental parastatal organisations or legal persons, as well as the suspension of assigned executive functions by the national Minister.

The Bill assigns to provinces functions, and will enable provincial authorities to control animal diseases and, as such, we support the Bill in principle. [Applause.]

Mr M M MAMASE (Eastern Cape): Chairperson, the Animal Health Bill repeals the Animal Diseases Act, Act 35 of 1994. This Act is being repealed in order to bring animal health legislation in line with our constitutional provisions as well as to accommodate new developments and changes in both the local and international livestock industries.

This Bill is different from the previous Act in that it puts more emphasis on animal health than on animal disease. This mindset shift has refocused the attention of Government on prevention of disease, and away from the curative approach. There are certain general guiding principles that apply in respect of all legislation in terms of Schedule 4 of the Constitution. This matter has been dealt with by the speaker behind me, so I am not going to deal with it.

The Animal Health Bill seeks to regulate veterinary services within the Republic of South Africa. Animal production is one of the most important agricultural activities in this country in general, and in our province in particular, which is heavily dependent on animal health to yield optimal production. Food security and primary animal health care are major priorities at both national and provincial level. The aim is to improve the quality of life of the people of this country.

The Bill has, as one of its objects, the promotion of the wellbeing of South Africans by ensuring an adequate supply of safe animal products and by eliminating exposure to zoonotic diseases. This is accomplished by controlling the spread of various animal diseases within the country.

The Bill intends to regulate the management of those controlled diseases that have a direct bearing on the livestock industry. For effective disease control, fencing is a prerequisite, otherwise the poor provinces will be overburdened with unfunded mandates. During periods of disease outbreaks, it becomes essential that infected herds are separated from clean herds by solid fences. The provision of fencing will also address the question of stray animals, which if left unchecked will not only pose a threat to road users but will also serve as potential carriers of diseases.

The necessity of this legislation, which seeks to safeguard both animal and human health, cannot be overemphasised. May I express the concerns of our legislature in the province. First and foremost, we do not think the pounds at local government level are properly managed. This is an issue that will have to be addressed

Secondly, whilst protocol agreements and bilateral agreements, provide a basis for countries to get into symbiotic processes, the issue that remains is the issuing of certificates for inspection on exportation. This is a matter that we are also concerned about. Our committee expressed concern about the legal and economic implications of exportation without a certificate. The view expressed was that where animals or things are exported to another country without a certificate, the exporter would not be in a position to defend him or herself if an exported animal or thing is alleged to have had a disease at the time of the exportation.

The economic impact could be that such a country may cease to import animals or things from South Africa. Our experience is that with the Newcastle disease outbreak in our province, where most of our farmers were exporting to Europe, exportation came to an abrupt end. As a result, we then began to deploy veterinary doctors at most of the farms where ostrich farming is an economic activity.

We are of a view that animals should be inspected before sale, particularly if they are for export purposes. The concern we are expressing also is about meat handling. There should be a standard set by the country to handle meat in abattoirs. Those are the concerns expressed by our province.

Another issue is that in our province there are people moving from Lesotho to areas like Sterkspruit and Herschel, who are employed in those areas as shepherds. When they are robbed by those farmers in that they are not well paid, they pay themselves by taking our animals back to Lesotho, and this is very problematic. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, arising from what the Deputy Minister said in … [Interjections.] … I will take my orders from the Chair. In connection with what the Chair …

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Mr Van Niekerk, will you sit down please.

Ms C-S BOTHA: Chairperson, on a point of clarity, may I ask a question of the previous speaker?

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! What is clarity? What point?

Ms C-S BOTHA: Sorry, Chairperson, it is a point of order concerning the previous speaker. May I ask a question?

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: The member has finished speaking, hon Botha. Ms C-S BOTHA: Chairperson, I tried to attract your attention to ask the member a question.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, I am very sorry to say so, but the member has finished. [Interjections.] Hon Mr Mamase, would you be prepared to take a question?

Uyala. [He is refusing.]

Mr M M MAMASE: Hon Chair, yes, I will take a question.

Ms C-S BOTHA: Chairperson, thank you very much. I would like to ask the hon member whether I am interpreting his speech correctly when he suggests that theft is an acceptable substitute for payment?

Mr M M MAMASE: Chairperson, I did not say that.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! The matter is closed. Hon Van Niekerk, you may continue.

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, arising from what the Deputy Minister said in connection with anthrax being primarily a disease of animals and the outbreaks we had in the Northern Cape, I just want to say that in connection with the terrorist threats and strategy to infect people with anthrax, I was rather shocked during the week when I learnt that there is apparently no strategy in place in which the hon the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs and the Minister of Health engage in a holistic approach to see how this should be dealt with in South Africa. I am totally aware of the capacity of Onderstepoort to supply vaccines, but I am sure with this threat there should be a holistic approach.

To carry on with that aspect, in this House we very often mention that we should have an emergency response strategy in place, and some of us do have this piece of paper on our desks. But this has not been updated. It does not deal with the threat that we have now. Proof of that is the clumsy way in which the threat was handled on Wednesday in Tuynhuys, and as we sit here about 100m from this Council there is another anthrax threat.

We do not know how to handle it. Should I take the envelope, if I get one, and take it to the presiding officers, or to the councillors I do not like? Do we know how to handle it? We do not know. This is a very serious situation, and I am sorry to bring it up in this specific debate.

In connection with the Bill itself, in the light of the impact epidemics like foot-and-mouth disease can have on agriculture, we feel very strongly that the national executive officer and the provincial executive officers to be appointed cannot be, as stated in the Bill, just veterinarians working for the national Department of Agriculture. They should be registered with the Veterinary Council as well. We would also want to see the national executive officer, in consultation with the provincial executive officer, amend or withdraw decisions of the provincial executive officer. This cannot be done unilaterally, as stated in the Bill.

Another matter that is very important is the positioning of the quarantine station. This station must be at least a kilometre away from other animals, because bovine malignant catarrhal fever - commonly known as ``snotsiekte’’

• of wildebeest can infect other animals as far as one kilometre away. This is very important, and the Bill does not deal with it.

It is also of vital importance to look at what fair market value is when animals are to be slaughtered, owing to, for instance, an outbreak of foot- and-mouth disease, as we had in KwaZulu-Natal where not just millions of rand are at stake but also the livelihoods of many communities. The genetic value and the reproduction value of the stock must be taken into consideration as well.

We have a problem in this country in connection with capacity. The Bill is fine; the Act is fine. They must be there, but we just do not have the capacity to comply with what is expected from us. Let me give an example. The OIE’s requirement for veterinarians in a province like the Northern Cape is 16.

Ons het 16 veeartse in die Noord-Kaap nodig. Daar is tans vier en ons hoop om nog twee aan te stel wat die getal op ses te staan sal bring. Ons posisie is dus sodanig dat ons hoegenaamd nie aan die vereistes kan voldoen nie.

Ons sal ernstig daaraan moet werk om dit reg te stel. As ons nie aan die veeartsenykundige vereistes kan voldoen nie, kan ons soveel wette op die wetboek hê soos ons wil, dit gaan niks help nie.

Die gedagte wat die agb minister geopper het ten opsigte van intensiewe boerdery wat wêreldwyd toeneem om regtig vermoë te bou en ontwikkeling te bevorder, is ‘n uitstekende gedagte. Maar, eerstens, skiet die internasionale vereistes dit in die voet en, tweedens, is ons opleidings- en voorligtingsgeriewe nie goed genoeg om mense in staat te stel om intensiewe boerdery te vervolmaak en te bedryf op ‘n grondslag waaruit ons regtig voordeel kan trek nie.

Dit is aspekte waaraan ons baie ernstig sal moet aandag gee.

Ons ondersteun die wysigingswetsontwerp. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[We need 16 veterinarians in the Northern Cape. There are only four at present and we hope to appoint two more which would bring the number to six. Our position is therefore such that we cannot comply with the requirements in any way.

We should seriously work on this matter to rectify it. If we cannot comply with the veterinary requirements, we can have as many Acts on the Statute Book as we like, but it would not help in any way.

The idea the hon the Minister mentioned with regard to intensive farming, which has increased worldwide, to really build capacity and to promote development is an excellent idea. But, firstly, the international requirements are shooting this in the foot, and secondly our training and extension facilities are not good enough to enable people to perfect intensive farming and to manage it on a basis from which we can really profit.

These are aspects to which we should really give serious attention.

We support the amending Bill.]

Mr P I MALEFANE (Gauteng): Chairperson, there is a saying that people are what they eat, and I believe that as human beings owe their existence to nature, so animals should be viewed within that context which allows for the promotion of animal health and the control of contagious diseases.

As Gauteng we are pleased that Government, while addressing the socioeconomic needs of poor people, does not abdicate its responsibility of providing an environment that is habitable for both humans and animals. We should be informed that an environment that does not take care of the spread of disease from animals puts at risk everything that lives, including human beings.

It is also important to indicate that it is high time provinces take a proactive step in building capacity to promote animal health programmes in their areas. Gauteng, for instance, played a major role in the successful combating of the foot-and-mouth disease outbreak in KwaZulu-Natal and Mpumalanga. This outbreak had a negative effect on exports. Priority was therefore given to certification, inspection and traceability, as a result of the foot-and-mouth disease outbreak, in order to safeguard continued exports.

This Bill emphasises the need to ensure that no animal enters or leaves the borders of our country without a permit, and also reinforces the need for consistency in terms of how animals are handled, which promotes animal welfare.

We hope that the national department will also assist in ensuring that provinces do play their part in the implementation of this Bill once it is law, and that they unlock resources to build capacity where such resources are urgently needed. Failure to do so will make our laws paper tigers. We therefore support and vote in favour of this Bill. [Applause.]

Mr V V Z WINDVOëL: Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs and hon members, it is unfortunate that in my maiden speech I will start by reacting to what was raised by the hon Mrs Rossouw from the Western Cape, who mentioned that a certain clause of the Bill may be in conflict with their provincial constitution. I am not sure how long it will last or stand the test of time, because the political scenario in the Western Cape is changing faster than the speed of sound. [Laughter.]

However, I must say when this matter was raised in the committee, the department was very clear that the right to choice by any province is not prohibited. The same goes even for other provinces, not in particular the Western Cape. I do understand that due to the DA fiasco it may happen that the hon Versfeld could not report back on this matter to the committee. It should further be understood from what the Deputy Minister stated that animal diseases know no boundaries, hence one will never ever have a provincial or municipal animal disease.

The purpose of this Bill is to provide mechanisms to promote the further development of our agriculture through the combating of animal diseases. It would be difficult to understand the impact of this Bill without looking at the impact which animal diseases have on the economies of developing countries. Lessening the impact of animal diseases on the agricultural countries is very important, particularly in developing countries such as our own, where agriculture contributes a significant portion to our gross domestic product.

The Deputy Minister - and I will not make the mistake which was nearly committed by Mr Van Niekerk and call him ``Deputy President’’ - has adequately and eloquently reflected on the spinoffs of having healthy livestock and quality by-products. By proactively promoting health and combating disease in animals, our country can significantly mitigate the potential losses which may be suffered by outbreaks of animal disease, such as the recent foot-and-mouth disease. As a developing country we can ill afford the lost revenues and the eradication, decontamination, vaccination and restocking costs which such diseases usually incur. Neither can we afford the societal effects which sometimes accompany the major disease outbreaks, such as a threat to human health and the destabilisation of whole communities.

Unlike developed countries, which often have more effective lobbies with their trading partners and within influential organisations such as the World Trade Organisation and the European Union, the agricultural sector in developing countries has a more difficult time in convincing these organisations and other trading partners that their animals are disease free. Sometimes small farmers in developing countries also do not have the resources of a developed country’s economy, such as government assistance to restock quickly enough to reduce potential losses as a result of a major outbreak of animal diseases.

However, we must mention that there is provision in the Bill for compensation to be made to those farmers who have lost their livestock due to any animal disease. It is only by having regard to this context that one can really appreciate the importance of legislation like this. This Bill will go a long way in ensuring that our country keeps its integrity by ensuring that our export animals comply with the international standards, guidelines and procedures for the control and prevention of animal disease. It creates a workable structure in terms of which the different levels of government should work together to combat animal disease by setting out the powers and functions of the national executive officer and the nine provincial executives.

The Bill strictly regulates the export and import of animals from and into South Africa. The need for strict controls is obvious. It is both to protect the good image of our country and to protect domestic animals from diseases which may be carried by imported animals. In terms of the exporting of animals, the national executive officer must issue an export health certificate, although there are certain exceptions as the Eastern Cape has correctly mentioned. This gives a guarantee to the importing country that the animals are in a healthy state based on the requirements of the importing country. This is necessary to create international trust in South African animals and their by-products.

In so far as the import of animals is concerned, the Bill requires that import permits accompany consignments of animals and animal products. Provision is also made for the establishment of quarantine camps for the accommodation of any imported animal or animal product that is required in terms of this Bill to be isolated.

I have no doubt whatsoever that this Bill will further elevate our status as a country with a good record of animal health. If implemented successfully, this Bill will greatly contribute in expanding trade, improving nutrition, exploiting ecotourism and ensuring food security. The ANC supports this Bill. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Chairperson, let me just say at the beginning that that cannot be a maiden speech. That class of speech should be made by a Deputy Minister today. [Laughter.] I must thank the ANC for always coming to the assistance of their comrades, and giving the ministerial speech.

I would just like to make a few comments. The hon Malefane reflected on the negative effect on exports, and Ms Rossouw also referred to that matter. That is the problem. Last year we had the problem with the exporting of animals to Spain, animals such as zebras and giraffes. In Spain it was stopped in the ports. We know that zebras carry horse sickness. How does one say it in English? Horse disease. ``Perdesiekte’’. [Laughter.] Zebras are carrying it. We could not stop that under the previous legislation, but now we can do it. This is clearing up a lot of problems for us at the moment.

We have to have controls, and that is what the hon Ms Versfeld referred to. The international organisations require the national authority to be able to do this. I really hope that we have covered all the loopholes. Basically, this will be as good as the system that we are going to operationalise. We can have a very good law, but we must go and operationalise it and build our capacity.

I am aware that there is the problem of not having enough vets and the capacity in the province. We are in this together, both national and provincial government. The hon Mamase referred to unfunded mandates. That is the problem, because we have to get the funding. I must say that in the new budget we are strengthening veterinary services at a huge rate. Dr Mogajane is here and she is heading this. I have the highest respect for her. We cannot do this without the MECs and cannot do it without the officials. We must make a team effort. This is a national challenge that we are facing. The hon Van Niekerk referred to the capacity. I have given instructions that we must look at the bursary scheme at Onderstepoort. The veterinary profession is becoming a female profession. It is a good thing. At Onderstepoort, in the faculty there, over 65% - I am guessing now - of students are women.

HON MEMBERS: Good!

The DEPUTY MINISTER: It is a good thing, but a lot of them have their eyes on pet practices in cities. This is a good thing, and I have nothing against it. A lot of people are also going overseas. It is mostly white females I am talking about. I have nothing against white females becoming vets. It is excellent. It is a loving and caring profession.

But to go up to the remote northern areas such as Pongolo and Makhatini Flats one needs tough people to go and work with the big animals there. I am not saying that they are not tough, but what we need is to promote more black veterinarians in this country. The intake this year was three in Onderstepoort. I have given strict instructions, and Dr Mogajane and the dean of the faculty at Onderstepoort and other staff members are working on getting a bursary scheme going, because men and women who want to go into commercial animal practice - what we call production animal practice, which is what the economy needs - must be found in the rural areas. They do not come from Batho in Mangaung. People who want to work with animals and become vets come from the rural areas. The faculty at Onderstepoort now has a unit which goes around schools trying to get people to study this subject. We have to get the people and put up the numbers.

Let me just say that Onderstepoort - the research facilities, the faculty and all the different institutes there - is one of the great assets of South Africa. We have to maintain that. The animal hospital there is such a fine place. If I get ill, I want to be treated there. I must still take my last penicillin for protection against anthrax. [Laughter.] Where is it? This is what it looks like, in case members are exposed to anthrax. I must still finish my course of penicillin, because I was involved in that anthrax scare.

While I am talking about anthrax, let me say that there is a national strategy on anthrax. It is a holistic approach between different departments of agriculture and the national Department of Health. It is currently led by Nia, the National Intelligence Agency, and there is a definite way to treat this matter. I must say that I was most impressed by the way it was handled when we had the hoax at Tuynhuys and the way in which the staff, in South Africa, handled this type of thing and also at the hospital that we were taken to. I am really impressed and I have no fear that we cannot handle this type of thing. We have the people and knowledge to treat this thing. But the problem is the hoaxes.

Let me make a few more comments. I think I will ask for a transcript of the hon Rossouw’s speech and we will study it in closer detail. If necessary, we will respond to that. I think we must also have copies of the other speeches. The hon Versfeld must not be worried about research. Of course there was a cut, but the Government is extremely aware of the importance of research. We lose people, but we must realise that research is an international, globalised profession. People go to other places and other people come to South Africa. I met the most wonderful Polish researcher at Onderstepoort who is doing wonderful work there. So this is the way it goes. We must not always see something abnormal always in losing personnel. There are always people coming around. This is an international profession.

Let me just tell the hon Mamase quickly that pounds are a big problem because they are operated at local government level. But we have to support that. We must work out a system. In actual fact we are coming with a new Bill on pounds next year because of the problems of theft, stray animals and disease control. Everything is contained in that, and we cannot just say the local government and the municipalities must find the money. Sometimes it is the poorest municipalities where we have the biggest stray problem. We cannot just say it is their problem.

But there is another thing I need to mention to the hon Mamase. If one goes through most of the commercial agricultural areas in South Africa, one will see good fencing systems in place there. If one drives through Qwaqwa, Transkei or wherever, one will see no fences. But those fences in the commercial agricultural areas did not just come there from nowhere. It was a systematic support system by different fencing Acts from the 19th century in the old colonies and the whole of the 20th century. This was done by a heavily subsidised system. It was one of those situations in which when a farmer wanted to pay less in taxes, he would put up a fence. That was never done in some of the traditional areas in South Africa, and we cannot expect the fencing systems to happen by themselves. We will have to do it in the public interest and have a support system. It is a matter of safety. It is about animal diseases and all the matters the hon member mentioned. We will have to make a plan, put it into place and have a support system. Otherwise we will never be able to have an advanced agricultural system. We must talk about that.

I think I made some comments on exports without permits. We can take it up within the technical groupings in the departments as well.

I must thank the Rev Moatshe, I have noted what he said - that the consultation was not sufficient. We take note of that. We will have to attend to this matter in future.

I must thank the Council for the debate and the support that they have given us, and I really enjoyed being here.

Debate concluded.

Bill agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution

(KwaZulu-Natal abstaining).

The Council adjourned at 11:40. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                     WEDNESDAY, 31 OCTOBER 2001

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 The following members have been appointed to serve on the Joint  Budget
 Committee, viz:


 ANC


 Ms N Hlangwana; Mr M R Baloyi; Dr S Cwele; Mr D  Hanekom;  Ms  B  Hogan
 (Alt); Mr J Jeffery (Alt); Mr M Masutha (Alt);  Mr  R  Pieterse;  Mr  E
 Sigwela; Mr M R Sikakane (Alt); Ms B Sonjica; Mr M  J  Mahlangu;  Mr  L
 Zita; Ms S van der Merwe (Alt).
 IFP
 Dr G G Woods; Ms S A Seaton (Alt).


 New NP
 Dr P Rabie.


 DP
 Mr K M Andrew; Mr C M Lowe.


 FF
 Mr P J Groenewald.


 UCDP
 Mr I S Mfundisi (Alt).


 PAC
 Dr S E M Pheko.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Report of the Auditor-General on the Summary  of  Statements  of
     Moneys kept in Trust in the Guardian's Funds for 2000-2001 [RP 165-
     2001].


 (2)    Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the
     Compensation Fund for 1999-2000 [RP 167-2001].


 (3)    Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the
     Mines and Works Compensation Fund for 2000-2001 [RP 166-2001].

1. The Minister of Public Enterprises:

 Report and Financial Statements of Denel for 2000-2001.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the Animal Health Bill [B 64 - 2001] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76), dated 31 October 2001:

   The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having considered the subject of the Animal Health Bill [B 64 - 2001] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76), referred to it, reports the Bill with amendments [B 64A - 2001].

2. Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the Marketing of Agricultural Products Amendment Bill [B 26B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 31 October 2001:

   The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having considered the subject of the Marketing of Agricultural Products Amendment Bill [B 26B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 76), referred to it, reports the Bill with amendments [B 26C - 2001].

                   THURSDAY, 1 NOVEMBER 2001
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 Assent by the President of the Republic in  respect  of  the  following
 Bills:


 (a)    Higher Education Amendment Bill [B 61B - 2001] - Act  No  23  of
       2001 (assented to and signed by President on 30  October  2001);
       and


 (b)    National Health Laboratory Service Amendment Bill [B 56 -  2001]
       - Act No 24 of 2001 (assented to and signed by President  on  30
       October 2001). National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:


 Bills passed by National Assembly on 1 November  2001  and  transmitted
 for concurrence:


 (a)    Births and Deaths Registration Amendment  Bill  [B  53  -  2001]
     (National Assembly - sec 75).


     The Bill has been  referred  to  the  Select  Committee  on  Social
     Services of the National Council of Provinces.


 (b)    Constitution of the Republic of South  Africa  Second  Amendment
     Bill [B 78B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 74).


 (c)    Judges' Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Bill [B  83  -
     2001]  (National  Assembly  -  sec  75)  (introduced  as   Judicial
     Officers Amendment Bill [B 72 - 2001].


 The Bills have been referred to the Select Committee  on  Security  and
 Constitutional Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.

TABLINGS:

National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Chairperson:

 The President of the Republic submitted the following letter, dated  29
 October 2001, to the Chairperson of the National Council  of  Provinces
 informing Parliament of the employment of the  South  African  National
 Defence Force:


 Dear Ms Pandor,


 REPORT IN TERMS OF SECTION 201(3) OF THE CONSTITUTION OF  THE  REPUBLIC
 OF SOUTH AFRICA, 1996 (ACT 108 OF 1996) ON THE EMPLOYMENT OF THE  SOUTH
 AFRICAN NATIONAL DEFENCE FORCE IN TERMS OF SECTION (201)(2)(c)  OF  THE
 CONSTITUTION, 1996 IN THE FULFILLMENT OF AN INTERNATIONAL OBLIGATION TO
 THE REPUBLIC OF BURUNDI


 This serves to inform the National Council  of  Provinces  that  on  26
 October 2001, I authorised the employment  of  South  African  National
 Defence Force personnel to the Republic of Burundi in fulfillment of an
 international obligation. This employment was authorised in  accordance
 with the provisions of Sections 82(4)(b)(ii) of the Constitution of the
 Republic of South Africa, 1993 (Act No 200 of 1993),  [which  continues
 to be in force in terms of Item 24(1) of Schedule 6 to the Constitution
 of the Republic of South Africa, 1996 (Act No 108 of 1996)], as well as
 Section 201(2)(c) of the  said  Constitution  of  1996,  as  read  with
 Section 227(1)(b) of the Constitution of 1993.


 This employment is in response to a request from the Government of  the
 Republic of Burundi and the facilitator of the peace  process  in  that
 country, former President Nelson Mandela. The United Nations  has  also
 endorsed this deployment.  It  is  envisaged  that  the  South  African
 military contingent will  form  part  of  a  multinational  force.  The
 deployment is  in  compliance  with  the  Republic  of  South  Africa's
 international obligations towards support to the peace process  in  the
 Republic of Burundi in the  mission  of  rendering  protection  support
 services  to  returning  opposition  leaders   participating   in   the
 Transitional  Government.  This  forms   a   critical   part   of   the
 implementation  of  the  Arusha  Peace  and  Reconciliation  Agreement.
 According to the Agreement, the transitional government in Burundi will
 start their activities on 1 November 2001.


 The deployment will consist of 1 431 military personnel. The  estimated
 period of deployment will be from 25 October 2001 until June 2002.
 Based on the latest available information (as at 22 October 2001),  the
 estimated expenditure for a twelve month period  to  mobilise,  deploy,
 sustain, rotate and demobilise  the  anticipated  force  structure  and
 equipment amounts to US$M158 (RB1, 501  where  US$1  =  R9.50).  Former
 President Nelson Mandela has negotiated donor funding for the operation
 from countries such as Belgium and the USA, as  well  as  the  European
 Union.


 I will also communicate this report to the National Assembly  and  wish
 to request that you bring it to  the  notice  of  the  Members  of  the
 National Council of Provinces.


 Yours sincerely,




 T M MBEKI

                       FRIDAY, 2 NOVEMBER 2001

ANNOUNCEMENTS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

(1) The Minister of Communications submitted the Wysigingswetsontwerp op Telekommunikasie [W 65 - 2001] (Nasionale Vergadering - art 75) to the Speaker and the Chairperson on 2 November 2001. This is the official translation of the Telecommunications Amendment Bill [B 65 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), which was introduced in the National Assembly by the Minister on 6 September 2001.

National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:


 Bills passed by National Assembly on 2 November  2001  and  transmitted
 for concurrence:


 (a)    Judicial  Matters  Amendment  Bill  [B  43B  -  2001]  (National
     Assembly - sec 75).
 (b)     Criminal  Procedure  Second  Amendment  Bill  [B  45B  -  2001]
     (National Assembly - sec 75).


 The Bills have been referred to the Select Committee  on  Security  and
 Constitutional Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.


 (c)    Lotteries Amendment Bill [B 81B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec
     75).


     The Bill has been referred to  the  Select  Committee  on  Economic
     Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.