National Assembly - 15 March 2002
FRIDAY, 15 MARCH 2002 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 9:05.
The Chairperson of Committees took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Dr E E JASSAT: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC at the next sitting of the House:
That the House -
(1) notes that the Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital is the largest hospital in the world, serving the needs of the people of Gauteng and beyond;
(2) acknowledges that an R82 million upgrade is currently under way;
(3) commends the Government for making the funds available which will ease the plight of patients and staff working under difficult conditions; and
(4) commends the staff of the Chris Hani Baragwanath Hospital for their dedication and commitment to the needs of the ill, often under trying conditions.
[Applause.]
Mr T D LEE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes the latest controversies playing themselves out in South African soccer;
(2) further notes the steady decline in the performance of South African national teams on the world stage;
(3) recognises that the woes in South African sport stem from national administrators giving their allegiance to political bosses rather than the men and women who play sport and aspire to represent their country;
(4) condemns the ongoing, self-serving interference in sport by the Minister of Sport and Recreation and his political lackeys; and
(5) calls on the Government to stop abusing sport to further their political careers and to give sport back to the players.
[Interjections.]
Mr J H SLABBERT: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House -
(1) appreciates attempts at augmenting the safe landing of aeroplanes as evidenced in the mock plane crash exercise at Cape Town International Airport by Storm Evaluators;
(2) realises that this company took into account the fact that there might be some hiccups with the rescue mission if the plane were to crash at Cape Town International Airport;
(3) further compliments the company on staging such exercises as a proactive and visionary approach aimed at securing the lives of passengers; and
(4) urges the Airports Company of South Africa to take effective steps to solve this perceived security threat. Ms N M TWALA: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes ongoing reports in delays of processing the applications for social grants in various provinces;
(2) believes that the ANC-led Government has a commitment to alleviating the plight of the aged, the disabled, the poor and the dispossessed;
(3) calls on the Minister of Social Development and all MECs to institute urgent corrective measures to ensure that these delays and bottlenecks are eliminated; and
(4) welcomes the passing by this House of the R2 billion Social Grants Appropriation Bill which will assist in the payment of arrears owed to pensioners.
[Applause.]
Mnr A S VAN DER MERWE: Voorsitter, hiermee gee ek kennis dat ek sal voorstel:
Dat die Huis -
(1) kennis neem -
(a) van die huidige krisis in die Suid-Afrikaanse melkbedryf wat
veroorsaak is deur die waardevermindering van die rand;
(b) van die feit dat talle melkboere die afgelope tyd bankrot
verklaar is omdat dit duurder geraak het om melk te produseer as
wat hulle daarvoor betaal word;
(c) dat supermarkte 'n monopolie op die melkprys het en sodoende
boere uitbuit; en
(d) dat die melkbedryf in Suid-Afrika gevaar loop om heeltemal tot
niet te gaan omdat top genetiese melkkoeie nou geslag word; en
(2) ‘n beroep op die Minister vir Landbou en Grondsake doen om dringend aandag aan die melkbedryf te gee en saam met boere te werk om die krisis op te los. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Mr A S VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes -
(a) the current crisis in the South African milk industry that was
caused by the depreciation in the value of the rand;
(b) the fact that in recent times many dairy farmers have been
declared insolvent because it has become more expensive to
produce milk than what they are being paid for it;
(c) that supermarkets have a monopoly on the milk price and are
consequently exploiting farmers; and
(d) that the milk industry in South Africa is running the risk of
total collapse, because top genetic milk cows are now being
slaughtered; and
(2) appeals to the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs to pay urgent attention to the milk industry and to co-operate with farmers in order to resolve the crisis.]
Mr S ABRAM: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move:
That the House - (1) notes -
(a) the horror accounts of the physical, mental and sexual abuse and
torture of the pride of our nations, the future of our nations,
our children, unfolded in evidence before the Task Group on
Child Abuse hearings during the past few days; and
(b) that as we gather here this morning many of our beloved children
are being abused and tortured;
(2) therefore calls on the Government to -
(a) immediately and without fail implement urgent measures to save
our children from such abuse;
(b) immediately and without fail empower the Family Violence Unit of
the SAPS with dedicated, skilled personnel and sufficient
resources, human and material, to help end this scourge; and
(c) deal with perpetrators, when found guilty, in the harshest
terms, to serve as a deterrent; and
(3) says to these demons: Hands off the pride of our nations - our children; we South Africans will sort you out; there is no place for you in our society.
[Applause.]
Prof B TUROK: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) wishes to commemorate the outstanding contribution to the continent of Africa of the late Prof Bade Onimode, Deputy Vice Chancellor of the University of Ibadan, Nigeria; and (2) notes that -
(a) Prof Onimode was one of the most distinguished economists in
Africa and an ardent exponent of African unity and regional
integration;
(b) he visited South Africa on several occasions, participated in
conferences, delivered lectures at universities and made
substantial policy contributions to seminars of
parliamentarians; and
(c) he was a charismatic intellectual with a deep passion for the
development of the continent and would have been an important
economist in the Nepad process.
[Applause.]
Ms C DUDLEY: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ACDP:
That the House - (1) notes -
(a) that a 14-year study into underage pregnancy in the UK has
questioned the effectiveness of policies which increase easy
availability of contraceptives for children under 16, and that
the lead researcher, Dr Paton, has said that an increase in
access to family planning clinics has not decreased pregnancy
rates but even increased them in some instances as it encourages
more people to have sex, and a high contraceptive failure rate
adds to the problem;
(b) that the UK Government is expected shortly to launch a sex
education campaign in reaction to the alarming figures for the
growth in sexually transmitted diseases, claiming that previous
attempts have been sadly counter-productive with sex education
having become inflamed by its own material and now being
increasingly lewd, leering and graphic; and
(c) with disgust the Love Life campaign material in South Africa
which encourages masturbation and blatantly stimulates sexual
responses in youth;
(2) calls on the Government to stop this obscenity which purports to be a campaign to encourage children to talk openly about sex;
(3) acknowledges that children should be encouraged to talk openly to parents and other responsible adults …
[Time expired.]
Mr A C NEL: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) recognises the outstanding work of volunteers at the Pretoria Magistrate’s Court who assist with its Women and Violent Sexual Crimes Programme, the Maintenance Forum and the Volunteer Upliftment Programme;
(2) acknowledges that these programmes offer invaluable counselling and administrative assistance to the court, the latter programme having allowed 70 youths from disadvantaged communities to be trained and mentored as legal clerks;
(3) notes that most youths have acquired skills and experience which have enabled them to find employment within four months; and
(4) calls on communities to be involved with their institutions to uplift such institutions for the benefit of the community.
Brig Gen P J SCHALKWYK: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move: That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) many military veterans feel neglected because they were not
included in the integration of forces into the SANDF and were
excluded from pension benefits;
(b) on 19 June 2001 the Minister of Defence gave his assurance in
this House that he would give special attention to their plight,
a promise he repeated on 18 October 2001; and
(c) the failure of the Minister to act has led to escalating
protests by these veterans; and
(2) calls on the Minister to honour his promises and to urgently address this matter before it becomes a threat to the country’s internal security.
Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the IFP:
That the House -
(1) acknowledges the rights of parents to send their children to schools of their choice anywhere in the country;
(2) is concerned about the media reports that a large number of learners migrate from the Eastern Cape to the Western Cape province, thus leaving the Eastern Cape Department of Education unable to plan meaningfully and effectively for its infrastructural needs;
(3) notes that -
(a) such migration of learners is largely caused by the lack of
basic needs such as electricity, water and learning support
materials; and
(b) teachers are leaving this province looking for better
opportunities in other provinces; and
(4) asks for urgent intervention by both the province and the Minister of Education.
Mr G P MNGOMEZULU: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes -
(a) that the Angolan government has offered blanket amnesty to all
Unita soldiers; and
(b) reports that Unita is considering the peace offer by the Angolan
government;
(2) believes that this presents an opportunity for peaceful resolution of the conflict in Angola;
(3) welcomes the gesture by the Angolan government which is aimed at putting the Lusaka Accord back on track; and
(4) calls on all parties to work towards the peaceful resolution of conflict in Angola.
[Applause.]
Mr A Z A van JAARSVELD: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:
That the House -
(1) is in full agreement with the President that lazy public servants are a liability to the state and should not be kept in their positions; and
(2) believes the Minister for the Public Service and Administration should put measures and procedures into place in order to identify such public servants and deal with them accordingly.
Ms ANNELIZÉ VAN WYK: Chairperson, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) the Reserve Bank has raised the repo rate yesterday with 1%; and
(b) the Reserve Bank has chosen this course based on increasingly
inflationary pressure, mainly from increasing food prices;
(2) acknowledges that this development will place a further burden upon poor and working-class people, who are already struggling to survive;
(3) is dismayed at the manner in which the tax cuts the Minister of Finance has announced are now cancelled out by this development; and
(4) calls upon the Government to take measures to ensure that increasing food prices are brought under control to prevent large-scale hunger and poverty.
Mr D M GUMEDE: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that Sasol is hosting a ``Science and Technology Festival 2000’’ for schoolgoing youth in Grahamstown today; and
(2) believes that -
(a) this festival will contribute positively in mentoring our youth
to have keen interests in science and technology; and
(b) knowledgeable workers in science and technology are an important
requirement for foreign direct investment and economic growth.
[Applause.]
Mr D C MABENA: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:
That the House -
(1) notes that -
(a) on 8 March 2002 the ANC parliamentary office in Atteridgeville,
in partnership with the community, organised a successful matric
award ceremony;
(b) this ceremony was in honour of learners from all the high
schools in the area who performed well during the 2001 matric
examinations; and
(2) commends -
(a) the partnership between the Gauteng MEC for Education, Ignatius
Jacobs, retired teachers' organisations and local businesses;
and
(b) the alumni of these schools for their positive motivation and
encouragement of learners.
[Applause.]
ELECTION OF MR A MLANGENI TO PRESIDE OVER SITTING
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, may I move a point of order first? Is it in order for the hon Lee to be reading a newspaper in the House?
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon members, we all agree that it is out of order to read newspapers in the House. You are not allowed to do that, Mr Lee. [Interjections.] We do not read newspapers. [Interjections.] I can see it from here. Mr Lee, could you fold it and put it away, please.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, he was busy waving DA posters instead of listening to the speech yesterday, and now he is reading the newspaper … [Inaudible.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE COMMITTEES: Hon Deputy Chief Whip, move your motion. The point of order has been ruled on.
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move the draft resolution printed in her name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That the House elects Mr A Mlangeni to preside during today’s sitting of the House when requested by a presiding officer to do so.
Agreed to.
SUSPENSION OF RULE 253(1) TO CONDUCT SECOND READING DEBATE ON COMMISSION FOR THE PROMOTION AND PROTECTION OF THE RIGHTS OF CULTURAL, RELIGIOUS AND LINGUISTIC COMMUNITIES BILL
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move the draft resolution printed in her name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That Rule 253(1) be suspended for the purposes of conducting the Second Reading debates on the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities Bill [B 62 - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75) and on the National Railway Safety Regulator Bill [B 7 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 76).
Agreed to.
REFERRAL OF PRIVATE SECURITY INDUSTRY LEVIES BILL TO PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE
(Draft Resolution)
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move the draft resolution printed in her name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That, notwithstanding Rule 290(1), the Private Security Industry Levies Bill [B 11 - 2002] - (National Assembly - sec 77), upon its introduction, be referred to the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security for consideration and report, the Committee to have the power to confer with the Portfolio Committee on Finance.
Agreed to.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND
CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT-LEGAL AID GUIDE, 2001
Report adopted without debate.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE MEMBERS'
LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS AND SPECIAL PETITIONS-PETITION OF MR O B VAN
SCHALKWYK
Report adopted without debate.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF STANDING COMMITTEE ON PRIVATE MEMBERS'
LEGISLATIVE PROPOSALS AND SPECIAL PETITIONS-PETITION OF MR G C CLARKE
Report adopted without debate.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT-SUSPENSION AND REMOVAL FROM OFFICE OF MR H Z
ZULU, ADDITIONAL MAGISTRATE, PORT SHEPSTONE Report adopted without debate.
PRIVATE SECURITY INDUSTRY LEVIES BILL
(Introduction)
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, hon members, apologies for the slight delay. The Private Security Industry Regulation Act, Act 56 of 2001, was passed in Parliament in November last year. The Act provides for, amongst other things, the regulation of the private security industry by a special industry regulatory authority.
The authority will act through a council of five members, who are required to be independent and not to have any interest in the private security industry. The cost of regulating the private security industry will be borne by the members of the industry who are registered with the regulatory authority. The funds of the authority will be derived from the imposition of levies upon members of the private security industry by the regulatory council. In terms of the principal Act, the state will be responsible for the fees of the members of the appeal committee to preserve their independence. What the Private Security Industry Levies Bill does is to deal with the sections of the principal Act which allow for the imposition of these levies. It is my belief that the Bill contains sufficient provisions for checks and balances to ensure that the funds of the authority are well managed and that the regulatory authority operates in a transparent and accountable manner. The Bill empowers the authority to address any situations arising with regard to the nonpayment of levies.
In placing this Bill before the House, I take the opportunity to thank the Minister and Deputy Minister of Safety and Security for their co-operation and assistance in the drafting of the Bill, and I trust that there is a very strong basis for going forward. I hereby table the Private Security Industry Levies Bill, 2002. [Applause.] Bill, together with the introductory speech, referred to the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security for consideration and report. BURUNDI PROTECTION SUPPORT APPROPRIATION BILL
(First Reading debate)
Ms T R MODISE: Chairperson, hon members, the ANC supports the Burundi Protection Support Appropriation Bill. A few years ago South Africa established a peace force. Some of us will remember with mirth and sometimes with anger and sadness the antics that came out of that force. It definitely did not do anything to enhance the image South Africans had of our defence forces and our attempts to try to reorientate them.
However, the South Africa Constitution and the White Paper on Defence, gave us provisions and mandates to start looking beyond the borders of South Africa not only to get involved in humanitarian aid, but also to play an active role in peacekeeping and peacemaking. Our contribution in this regard is what this appropriating Bill is all about.
We are looking at the first South African protection support group going out with pride. I am sure a week ago some of us saw on TV how our members were interacting with the communities of Burundi. I am sure I was not the only one whose heart was filled with pride at the fact that they were not only being called sons, but also that they were learning and exchanging cultural games with the people of Burundi.
One cannot remove this experience from that of rebuilding and the rebirth of Africa. One cannot talk about any development at all with regard to South Africa, Botswana and Nigeria without looking at the overall need for stability on the continent. By sending these men and women into the Burundi we are contributing to that stability. Stability must create a condition conducive to negotiations taking place. Of course, it is a bit worrying that the peace agreement has still not been put on the table in Burundi, but we are getting there. We are contributing and we are proud of that.
When South Africans took the Defence Review to the villages in 1996, they determined what members of the SA National Defence Force had to do. When South Africa is required to do what we are doing today in Burundi, we must also acknowledge that it comes with a price. That price, which today stands at R129 million, is nothing in comparison with the amount of peace that we will enjoy as a continent. The possibility of South Africa recouping every cent of the commitments from countries and governments to pay towards this peace dividend is tremendous. The goodwill that South Africa gets is also tremendous, but the high moral standing that we get out of this is very significant.
Therefore, from the defence committees of Parliament we wish our boys and girls in Burundi every success. We support this appropriation Bill. [Applause.]
Brig Gen P J SCHALKWYK: Chairperson, I fully agree with what the hon Modise has just said. I just have a different approach in my contribution today.
It is essential for any responsible country, when having to decide on its military force design, first to formulate its own political objectives, which in turn can only be determined by taking into account the country’s political vision, philosophy, policies, strategies, etc. Since 1994 Africa has come to the forefront for South Africa and it was essential for us to decide on the political importance of the various countries to South Africa.
There are three basic questions which need to be asked. Firstly, which territorial areas are of vital importance to South Africa? Secondly, which countries have a direct influence on South Africa? Lastly, which countries are only of interest to us?
We are now involved in the DRC in peace support operations on a very limited scale. In Burundi we have a much larger force, a battalion strength, to protect 26 returning politicians in terms of the Arusha Accord. My question is: Do both these operations fall within our political strategy and planning, or are they verging on side shows? We understand why South Africa was suddenly drawn into the Burundi operation, and at the time we supported the deployment of our troops there. Such sudden tasks mean that funds have to be found which were not in the defence budget, nor were the troops planned for. They could have been better employed in the control of our northern borders, especially at this time.
In the Burundi case, Nigeria, Senegal and Ghana agreed to assist, but this has not materialised. Pledges for funding have been received or are in the final process of delivery. In the meantime our troops are there, where they have to be accommodated, fed, paid allowances, and provided with various other support services.
We cannot rescind on our commitment, but we request that proper estimates and plans be made in future to ensure that we have the military resources and funds to get involved in these external operations. The DA supports the Bill.
Mr H J BEKKER: Chairperson, the hon Schalkwyk has more or less indicated what I wanted to say.
The IFP, despite certain reservations about the deployment of our soldiers in Burundi, supported our participation in Burundi on the express condition that foreign developed countries would foot the bill and refund South Africa in the end, and furthermore, that South Africa would not be the only African country that would be supplying soldiers and supportive structures in Burundi.
To the best of my knowledge South Africa should have been supported and joined by Nigeria, Senegal and Ghana in a joint training force in Burundi. These countries’ contributions have still not materialised, and we find ourselves holding the responsibility and paying the tab.
Foreign countries have as yet not played their financing role and, with the exception of some moneys received from the EU, we are still waiting. The IFP wishes to express its concern about the outstanding promises and urges Government and the military to have their ducks properly in a row before Parliament is requested for assistance.
Nevertheless, we support our soldiers and our boys on the border. We cannot have them receive no remuneration and food, and with this in mind the IFP will support the Bill.
Dr P J RABIE: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, the aim of this Bill is to appropriate an additional amount of money for the requirements of the Department of Defence, not exceeding R130 million, in respect of the 2001-2002 financial year. The following countries have promised the following amounts of donor money: Netherlands R17,6 million, Belgium 5,5 million euros, Britain 1,5 million pounds, Norway 9 million krone and the US $5 million.
Mr Chairperson, the rule of law, the maintenance of basic human rights and political stability are key ingredients for sustained future economic growth at national, regional and global levels. Sub-Saharan Africa is no exception to the rule. Burundi, as a country, has had a very sad history of strife, bloodshed and disappointing economic growth. The efforts of former President Nelson Mandela to bring peace and settle deep fundamental cultural and political differences in this country are indeed commendable, and I think we as South Africans should be very proud of this.
The SA National Defence Force’s peacekeeping force performs an important role in bringing peace to this area as well. Burundi and some of its neighbours can be categorised as Third World emerging countries. Trade in many of these countries has diminished in relation to national income. Another feature is that economic growth has been limited and poverty has risen to an alarming degree.
The economic global shocks of 2001, since 11 September in particular, have worsened the process of economic marginalisation of many of these countries in the centre of Africa. The economic wellbeing of Burundi and all other countries in sub-Saharan Africa is of fundamental importance to South Africa, being the largest industrial country within this subregion. A large number of countries within sub-Saharan Africa have slipped into recession. People vote with their feet. The thousands of migrants and political refugees in the present sub-Saharan Africa are an example of this. The role of political instability, the failure of ecomomies to provide employment, declining living standards and violent crime do not bid well for our particular region.
I repeat, the presence of the SA National Defence Force in Burundi is a proactive measure. It is in the interests of the entire sub-Saharan Africa and the New NP supports this Bill.
Dr G W KOORNHOF: Mr Chairperson and hon members, the Bill provides for expenditure in emergency situations in terms of section 16(1) of the Public Finance Management Act, namely for protection services by members of the SANDF for returning opposition leaders in Burundi.
Currently we have approximately 700 soldiers deployed in Burundi. I want to assume that our soldiers in Burundi are well trained and well behaved, and that they are contributing to the peace process in that country. If this is indeed the case we should welcome our contribution to bring stability in that country.
Owing to the fact that this is a money Bill, I must raise the issue of cost- effectiveness to deploy a contingent of 700 soldiers in Burundi. At R130 million for the current financial year, it implies an average cost of R186 000 for each soldier. If we assume that we will keep our number of soldiers deployed in Burundi at 700 military personnel for the 2002-03 financial year, at an estimated cost of R217 million, the average cost for each soldier over this period amounts to R310 000, or approximately R26 000 per month for each soldier. This equals the monthly salary of a member of Parliament in this House. From a cost-effective point of view, our involvement in Burundi is indeed a very expensive exercise.
We trust that the South African Government will do everything in its power to encourage the various donor countries to contribute financially to the deployment of soldiers in Burundi. If such funds are indeed deposited into the National Revenue Fund, they should assist in bringing down the average cost of keeping soldiers deployed in that country. The UDM supports the Burundi Protection Support Appropriation Bill.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Chairperson, hon members, I am sure I will be able to allay some of the concerns that have been raised in terms of the moneys that have been pledged by various countries for this operation. I also want to thank the members for supporting this Bill. May I remind members that we do not have boys on the border, but men and women in our SA National Defence Force and not in the SA Defence force. [Applause.] Some of our borders are being guarded by African women soldiers. I am so proud of that and I think members of the House must be proud of that too. [Applause.]
The contingent of the SA National Defence Force members who have been serving in Burundi since 1 November last year will be relieved and replaced in a process which will be completed by 22 March 2002. Their mission is to perform protection tasks for the returning exiled leaders before the inauguration of the interim government in Burundi. The mission has already been assessed as successful, as nearly all the exiled leaders have returned since the SA National Defence Force was placed in Burundi.
The 2001-02 to 2002-03 projected expenditure for this mission covers personnel allowances of R55,589 million; the cost of equipment and facilities amounts to R57,663 million; sustainment of our soldiers amounts to R42,804 million; aircraft, chartering and transport amount to R222,846 million; and medical consumables and equipment amount to R10,252 million. In total the mission is expected to cost R389,154 million.
Coming to the pledges, pledges to fund the deployment from the international community amounting to R266 million have been received, of which R17 million has been realised. Agreements have been finalised with the European Union to the amount of 9,5 million euros; Belgium 5,5 million euros; the Netherlands 10 million guilders. The agreement with the UK amounts to £1,5 million. These agreements are at an advanced stage and the United States of America and Norway are considering contributing. So the concerns that members have, I think, are unfounded.
To ensure regularity and propriety in terms of the Public Finance Management Act, the Minister of Finance was requested to authorise the expenditure of the deployment by exercising his section 16 powers. Subsequent to approval, the President will be requested to indicate the period within which Parliament and the Auditor-General is to be advised in accordance with section 16(4)(a). Preparation for the SA National Defence Force members dispatched to Burundi includes an orientation on the country of Burundi, so South Africa will definitely gain, because when those members come back they will inform us about Burundi.
Preparation also covers a briefing on the political developments in Burundi and the role-players in the current negotiation process; the military operational situation in Burundi; the memorandum of understanding between the Republic of South Africa and the transitional government in Burundi; the rules of engagement; operational military law; telecommunications and the functioning of the field post office; operational security guidelines; medical evaluation organisation, hygiene and first aid; payment of allowances; the SANDF code of conduct; language orientation; and mind awareness.
Indeed, I do think members will realise, this being one of our initial experiences with peace support operations, that we are going to come back - our soldiers are going to come back - having grown and developed from personally experiencing being part of this operation.
This deployment is a very important part of South Africa’s peacekeeping efforts. The deployment not only covers the protection of the exiled leaders as they return to Burundi, but also the training of a Burundian VIP protection service. Those members who are concerned about there not being participation at this stage by our Western neighbours, I should think, actually realise that the process will still go forward in terms of training the Burundian VIP protection service.
Another function we perform when our members come back is to debrief and demobilise them, because when soldiers are deployed, it is very important that they are debriefed when they return, given the counselling they need and that those who will be leaving are properly demobilised. All of this is part of our policy as this country, in which we make sure that we not only train people militarily, but also give them the skills that they require for civilian life.
Regarding the concern raised earlier by a member about the veterans, I just want to take this opportunity to say it is not correct that the Minister of Defence is not doing anything about the military veterans. The Minister has announced that he has formed an advisory board and that he will soon be announcing a united military veterans association. It is important that the military veterans coming from different formations should also be integrated just like our members. The different formations were integrated into our regular force. Similarly, we are going to be integrating the reserve force. So, I think, these are things that members should keep themselves informed about rather than to come forward and make statements without being fully briefed. [Applause.]
Adv Z L MADASA: Chairperson, to the committees on Defence this debate is not about whether Parliament supports the Burundi mission or not. Indeed, we have unequivocally supported the mission because we are aware of the political imperatives. But there are two issues I need to raise. The first issue has to do with the finances, and the second issue with parliamentary oversight. It is well and good for the Deputy Minister to tell us today that moneys are going to be paid and so on, but the issue is that we want that information before we come to the debate, not after the fact. That is the problem.
Secondly, on the issue of parliamentary oversight, we feel strongly that we have been undermined. We are the people’s representatives. We have an obligation to account to the people what the Government is doing. We have a constitutional obligation as Parliament to ensure that oversight actually takes place of the executive, and this is regardless of party affiliation by the way, especially in the Defence committees.
We feel that on this Burundi mission, despite our initial support of the mission, the executive failed dismally to take Parliament on board during the decision-making process. I again repeat that we support the Burundi mission. We have always supported it. There is no question about that, but it is the issue of the relationship. Are we taken seriously enough to be given information timeously, when we require it?
Having said that, however, I feel that the principle of parliamentary oversight therefore is an important one and because of the seriousness I place on this principle, I feel that on behalf of the ACDP I must abstain in order to send a message to the Deputy Minister that we want her to take us on board.
Mr P J GROENEWALD: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek dink daar is niemand wat kan sê dat hy of sy teen vrede, stabiliteit en voorspoed in ‘n ander land gekant is nie. Dit is ook die standpunt van die VF. Ons wil graag vrede en stabiliteit in Burundi sien. Die sprekers wat na vore tree, probeer die indruk skep dat as mens hier steun sou gee, dat dit eintlik steun is vir ons soldate wat daar is. Dit is nie die punt nie. Natuurlik steun ons ons mense wat daar is.
Die vraag is: Steun ons die regering van die dag wat ‘n bepaalde militêre operasie in ‘n ander land het, sodat hy dergelike operasie kan finansier? Die VF se standpunt is eerstens: Wat van die ooreenkomste met die ander lande, asook die EU? Hoekom is daar ‘n vertraging met hierdie ooreenkomste? Die standpunt van die VF is dat daardie ooreenkomste eers in plek moet wees. As dit die geval is en ons is almal heeltemal verseker van hul finansiële bydraes, dan kan ons ons steun toesê aan ‘n verdere R130 miljoen vir hierdie bepaalde militêre operasie.
Die sukses van ‘n militêre operasie hang af van hoe deeglik hy beplan word en hoe deeglik hy uitgevoer word. Hier sit ons met ‘n finansiële aspek wat nie deeglik beplan is nie en wat nie deeglik uitgevoer word nie. Verder, wanneer gaan hierdie militêre operasie eindig? Ons vra nou geld vir die 2002-03 boekjaar. Wie sê dit gaan nie nog ‘n jaar aanhou nie? Ons sal nie hierdie wetsontwerp steun nie. Ons moet eers ons sake in orde kry, onsself dissiplineer en dan sal die VF sy steun gee. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Mr Chairman, I think that there is no one who can say that he is opposed to peace, stability and progress in another country. That is also the stand of the FF. We would like to see peace and stability in Burundi. The speakers who came forward wanted to create the impression that if one gave support here, then one actually supported our soldiers who are there. That is not the point. Of course, we support our people there.
The question is: Do we support the government of the day that is conducting a specific military operation in another country, so that it can finance such an operation? The FF’s stand is firstly: What about agreements with other countries, and the EU? Why is there a delay with regard to these agreements? The stand of the FF is that these agreements should first be in place. If this is the case and we are all fully assured of their financial contributions, then we can dedicate our support to the tune of a further R130 million for this specific military operation.
The success of a military operation depends on how thoroughly it is planned and how well it is executed. Here we have a financial aspect which has not been thoroughly planned, which is not being thoroughly executed. Furthermore, when will this military operation end? We are asking money for the 2002-03 financial year now. Who says it is not going to last for another year? We shall not support this Bill. We must first get our house in order, discipline ourselves and then the FF will give its support.]
Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Chairperson, we all know the background that led to the South African involvement in bringing about peace in Burundi. There is no doubt that any effort that involves the sending of troops abroad is by and large accompanied by cost implications and, naturally, taxpayers have to provide for these expenses.
However, everything is not about money. We should view the involvement of South Africa in Burundi as an investment in peace and development, as opposed to its cost, because peace that is achieved in any part of Africa adds value to the advancement of the continent, particularly for the achievement of Nepad’s objectives.
Above all, the peacekeeping mission in Burundi, as sanctioned by the UN, should be viewed as an endorsement of South Africa’s capabilities and commitment to assist in bringing about a peaceful environment in Burundi. This effort extends to all the people of Burundi, including their leaders, and they will feel safe and secure as they pursue solutions for long- lasting peace and stability in their efforts to create democratic institutions.
We should also salute our peacekeeping forces in Burundi. Their sacrifices are being noticed and highly appreciated. They should know that by being in Burundi they are performing the task of protecting human lives, as they would be expected to do in our country.
A word of appreciation should also go to Deputy President Zuma for the important role he plays in building bridges for the warring factions in Burundi. We support his endeavours, and hope God will give him strength and wisdom to achieve this important mission.
It is for this noble reason that the UCDP supports the Burundi Protection Support Appropriation Bill. [Applause.]
Mr K A MOLOTO: Chairperson and hon members, South Africa has committed itself to making a contribution to world peace. Human development thrives only in peaceful conditions, whilst war results only in the unnecessary destruction of the productive resources of any country, thus leaving suffering and displacement of communities.
Children are the most vulnerable in any armed conflict. Therefore, it is proper that we should contribute to laying the foundation for the peaceful interaction of all citizens of Burundi. Given the facts presented before the Portfolio Committee on Finance, the ANC is convinced that the requirements of section 201(3) of the Constitution, and section 16 of the Public Finance Management Act have been fulfilled.
Too much innocent blood has been shed. Let us draw wisdom from the biblical beatitudes: ``Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the sons of God.’’ African lives are also precious. No amount of money could equate to the lives of ordinary babies and the vulnerable. They have every right to live in peace and reach adulthood. South Africa has the resources and political will to contribute to the attainment of peace in Burundi. Let us sow the seeds of peace in Burundi. May God richly bless South Africa and find us righteous in His sight. The ANC supports the peace process and the allocation of resources for its attainment. [Applause.]
Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, South Africa is a segment of a much larger entity that is Africa. Thus we have duties towards the larger entity as a stable Africa will contribute to a stable South Africa. The Burundi situation needed intervention. The status of our former President Nelson Mandela and our country’s miraculous new democracy has placed global confidence in the leadership, management and experience of South Africa.
This is a key factor contributing to the call for our assistance. The MF supports the disbursement of the money appropriated for the Burundi protection support. However, we must make every effort to ensure that other role-players honour their commitment to contribute financially. The donations made by the European Union and the Belgium government are encouraging. It is good news that South Africa’s initiative is well supported by the Burundi transitional government and army. The MF applauds the South African efforts that not only serve to assist Burundi, but contribute to building a good working relationship with other nations involved, for example with regard to unity and security.
The idea has to be sold to the public to ensure a positive reaction and understanding that assistance to the globe is a necessity in ensuring stability in South Africa and economic growth on the African continent. The MF supports the Burundi Protection Support Appropriation Bill. [Applause.]
Ms N F MATHIBELA: Mohlomphegi Modulasetulo, ke bolela ke le mosadi wa Moafrika yo a tsebago mohlako. Basadi ba Afrika ba tseba mohlako, gagolo basadi ba ANC. [Legofsi.] Ke eme fa, ke bolela le basadi gore, re le basadi ba Afrika-Borwa, a re thekgeng taba ye ya Mmušo wa rena wa Afrika, wa demokrasi. Re a tseba gore re dikile re hlaka mengwagangwaga. Mohlako wo gagolo o be o lebantšwe go basadi go feta batho ka moka.
Ge Mmušo wa rena o bolela ka taba ya Burundi, re gopola Freedom Charter ge e re nageng go tlo ba le khutšo, kwano le setswalle. Ngwaga le ngwaga Mopresitente o dika a bolela ka ga ngwana, a re ngwana wa Moafrika a se ke a tsoga a hlakile gape. Re tšeya gore bana ba Burundi ke bana ba rena - bana ba Afrika-Borwa. Re thekga mmušo wa Burundi ka sešole sa rena gore se ye go lwa kgahlanong le dira tša bomailakhutšo gore re tle re kgone go phela ka boiketlo mo kontinenteng ya rena.
Setswalle se a nyakega. Afrika-Borwa ke naga yeo e ilego ya ba le mmušo wa demokrasi. Re ile ra itlama ka 1994 ge re tšeya mmušo gore re tlo thušana le dinaga-mabapi gore re tle re kgone go tšwela pele. Afrika ke ya batho ka moka gomme Afrika-Borwa e tlo kgonthiša gore go ba le khutšo kontinenteng ye. Re a tseba ka mokgwa wo go lego ka gona mehleng ya dintwa. Ka molao wo re godišitšwego ka wona, re tseba ge monna e le yena a šomelago lapa la gagwe. Ge banna ba tšwile dira nakong ya dintwa, bao ba šalago ba hlaka ka go hlokomela bana ke basadi. Ge gona banna bao ba ka metšwa ke marumo, basadi ga ba na seo ba kago se fa bana ba bona. Ka goo, bana ba na le go tšhaba malapeng gomme ba yo nyaka thušo. Ke yona nako yeo ba kopanago le dikatawane le ka dinokwane tšeo di ba tshepišago mešomo yeo e rego ge ba ikgaša go yona ba hwetše e se mešomo ya nnete, e le fela ya go gweba ka mebele.
Re le basadi ba ANC re re dintwa ga di na poelo ye botse gomme e bile ga di kgone go aga setšhaba. Dintwa di šwalalanya ditšhaba. Re na le kholofelo go tšeo di dirwago ke mmušo wa rena gabjale - gagolo Motlatša-Mopresitente Jacob Zuma. Re re Modimo a be le yena gomme a mo šegofatše gore re kgone go ka thuša go fediša dintwa mo kontinenteng ya Afrika. Batho ba bangwe ba llela tšhelete yeo e šomišetšwago go tšweleletša khutšo Burundi. Tšhelete yeo e a tsena, ya be ya tšwa; eupša ge motho a jelwe ke marumo ga a sa na go bowa.
Re thusa batho ba dinaga tša Afrika go tša ekonomi ka go bona gore ekonomi ya bona e a agega, ya be ya tsošološwa. Ka gona rena, re le basadi ba ANC, re re a re tšweleng pele ka go thuša Burundi. [Legofsi.]
MODULA-SETULO WA DIKOMITI: Tšsielala! Ke kgopela tshwarelo go maloko a a hlomphegago. Mme Nomvula Mathibela o be a e fa polelo ya gagwe ya mathomothomo ka mo Ntlong ye hlomphegago ya Lekgotlatheramelao. Mo itieleng matsogo! O boletše gabotse! [Legofsi.] (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[Ms N F MATHIBELA: Mr Chairperson, I speak as an African woman who understands hardship. The women of Africa know hardship, especially the women who belong to the ANC. [Applause.] As I am standing here, I am making an appeal that, as women of South Africa, we must support the establishment of a democratic union of Africa. We know that we have suffered for many years. The brunt of that suffering was directed at women.
When our Government talks about the Burundi conflict, we are reminded that the Freedom Charter states that there will be peace, agreement and friendship in the land. Every year, the President talks about the child, saying that the African child must never suffer again. We regard the children of Burundi as our children - the children of South Africa. We are supporting the government of Burundi by sending our soldiers there to fight against those who are against peace so that we may live in peace on this continent of ours.
Friendship is desirable. South Africa is a country that has a recently elected democratic Government. When we came into power, in 1994, we undertook to co-operate with the neighbouring states in order to ensure our mutual development. Africa belongs to all who live in it, and South Africa is going to ensure that there is peace on this continent. We know how it was during the days of war. We were brought up to believe that the man is the breadwinner. When the men are out fighting the enemy, during times of war, the people who bear the burden of looking after the children are the women. Should those men die on the battlefield, the women do not have anything with which to look after their children. That is why children run away from home to seek help elsewhere. That is when they fall prey to con men and criminals who promise them jobs which, they later realise, are not real jobs but an introduction to prostitution.
As the women of the ANC, we are saying that wars have no positive outcomes and they cannot build a nation. Wars destroy nations. We have confidence in what our Government is doing currently, especially what Deputy President Zuma is doing. May God be with him and bless him so that we may be able to stop the wars that are raging on the African continent. Some people are complaining about the amount of money that is being used in the attempt to bring about peace in Burundi. Money is earned and spent, but a person who dies at war does not come back. We are helping African countries to develop and to revive their economies. Therefore we, as the women of the ANC, are saying that we must continue to support Burundi. [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! I would like to apologise to hon members. Ms Nomvula Mathibela was delivering her maiden speech in the National Assembly. Please applaud her. She spoke very well. [Applause.]
Die agb mnr Aucamp was ‘n bietjie laat, maar ek gaan hom ‘n kans gee om te praat. [The hon Mr Aucamp was a bit late, but I am going to afford him an opportunity to speak.]
Mr C AUCAMP: Agb Voorsitter, is dit nodig dat u dit moet invryf?
Op 12 Oktober 2001 is in Beeld berig dat Suid-Afrika na verwagting sowat 50 soldate bydra tot ‘n mag van tussen 200 en 300 in Burundi. En verder:
Suid-Afrika, Senegal, Ghana en Nigerië sal soldate bydra tot die mag en ook later tot ‘n vredesmag. Die vredesmag sal eers ontplooi word as al die strydende partye in Burundi die vredesooreenkoms onderteken het en die VN ‘n resolusie daaroor uitgevaardig het, het militêre bronne gister bevestig.
Kort daarna lees ons mnr Guy Verhofstadt, premier van België, het sowat R45 miljoen beskikbaar gestel vir die ontplooiing van die mag. Hy het terselfdertyd onderneem om ‘n verdere R153 miljoen van die Europese Unie te kry om bykomende uitgawes te dek. Hiervan het dadels gekom. Hierdie beloofde geld van die EU het nie gerealiseer nie, ook nie die soldate van Senegal, Nigerië en Ghana nie. Is dit nie dalk ‘n geval van ``fools rush in where angels fear to tread’’ nie?
Mnr Helmut Romer-Haitman, ‘n kenner van Jane’s Defence Weekly, het gesê dit sal waansin wees om hulle te stuur as die strydende groepe hulle nog nie tot ‘n formele skietstilstand verbind het nie. Suid-Afrika se soldate sal geen ondersteuning hê as hulle in die middel van die skietende strydendes beland nie. Met die aankoms van die troepe in Burundi het die Tutsileier, Mokatsi, gesê dat die Suid-Afrikaanse troepe indringers van buite is wat beveg sal word. Dit is ‘n duidelike bewys van die afwesigheid van ‘n aanvaarde vredesooreenkoms.
Die stuur van Suid-Afrikaanse troepe na Burundi was oorhaastig, ondeurdag en nie in ooreenstemming met die Suid-Afrikaanse verklaarde beleid oor die beskikbaarstelling van troepe in die buiteland nie. Daar kan nawetend gesê word dat ons reg opgetree het en dat die soldate besig is om goeie werk te doen. Dit is maar net genade en kon net sowel anders gewees het. Soos met die Rassismekonferensie onttrek ander lande hul beloofde skenkings omdat daar nie aan sekere basiese vereistes voldoen word nie en Suid-Afrika moet alleen die gelag betaal. Daarom kan die AEB nie hierdie wetgewing steun nie. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr C AUCAMP: Hon Chairperson, is it necessary that you should rub it in like that?
On 12 October 2001 it was reported in Beeld that it is expected that South Africa would contribute approximately 50 soldiers to a force of between 200 and 300 in Burundi. And further:
Suid-Afrika, Senegal, Ghana en Nigerië sal soldate bydra tot die mag en ook later tot ‘n vredesmag. Die vredesmag sal eers ontplooi word as al die strydende partye in Burundi die vredesooreenkoms onderteken het en die VN ‘n resolusie daaroor uitgevaardig het, het militêre bronne gister bevestig.
Shortly thereafter we read that Mr Guy Verhofstadt, the Premier of Belgium, made available approximately R45 million towards the deployment of this force. At the same he undertook to obtain a further R153 million from the European Union to cover additional costs. Nothing came of this. The promised money from the EU did not materialise, neither did the soldiers from Senegal, Nigeria and Ghana. Is this perhaps not a case of fools rush in where angels fear to tread?
Mr Helmut Romer-Haitman, an authority from Jane’s Defence Weekly, said that it would be madness to send them in if the warring factions had not committed themselves to a formal cease-fire. South Africa’s soldiers would have no support if they landed up in the middle of the shooting fighters. With the arrival of the troops in Burundi the Tutsi leader, Mokatsi, said that the South African troops were intruders from the outside who would be fought. This is clear proof of the absence of an unacceptable peace agreement.
The sending of South African troops to Burundi was overhasty, ill- considered and not in accordance with the South African declared policy about the supply of troops to foreign countries. With hindsight it could be said that we acted fairly and that the soldiers are doing good work. This is only by grace and could just as well have been otherwise. As with the Racism Conference certain countries withdrew their promised donations, because certain basic requirements were not complied with and South Africa then has to foot the bill alone. For this reason the AEB cannot support this legislation.]
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Mr Chairperson, again let me express my appreciation to all those who have participated in the debate. The hon Bekker used an analogy today. He said that we must get our ducks in a row. Hon Bekker must please never use that analogy on a day that we are playing cricket. [Laughter.] What we have to do here is to comply with section 201 of the Constitution and section 16(4) of the Public Finance Management Act. I am satisfied that we are fully compliant.
It is important just to go back. After the death of the late Mwalimu Nyerere, President Mandela was asked to lead the Arusha peace process. Having achieved peace in Burundi, it was necessary to secure that peace. In this regard, I am therefore quite dumbfounded by the approach of the hon Groenewald, a military man down to his last hair, who would have us wait to bed down that peace until everything is sorted out. One can never throw away peace once one has secured it. We had to act, and act correctly. I would like to submit to all members of this House that, having considered all the issues at hand, we acted timeously and dealt with the other issues. Similarly, if we had to wait until all of the EU commitments ``put their money where their mouth is’’, we would not have secured peace in Burundi.
These circumstances have arisen given the exigencies of the need to secure peace in Burundi. I ask that hon members understand it in that context. Apropos the calculations of Dr Koornhof of R186 000 per soldier, I think the Deputy Minister of Defence has dealt with that issue to a large extent. The bulk of the expenditure was on transport. Planes, both large Antinovs as well as Boeing 747s, had to be hired to get troops and equipment there. That accounted for R74 million. The equipment and facilities for the troops accounted for R19 million. So, that took a large chunk out of the money already.
I want to assure members of this House that dealing with these kinds of operations always creates uncertainties. I think if the hon Aucamp pulled out the reports from Beeld and all the other newspapers he would have seen that the figures were substantially higher. We are engaged with the Ministry and the Secretary of Defence, Mr Grundling in particular, to work continuously and diligently to ensure that the costs are reduced to the bare minimum. This is our best estimate we have at this stage. This is what we are asking Parliament to approve. We recognise the uncertainties, but I want to ensure hon members that we are trying to live within the spirit of both the Constitution and the Public Finance Management Act. We have come here to ask for the approval of the appropriation. The appropriation must be passed within 120 days of the announcement having been made, and we trust that the circumstances are appreciated by all. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill read a first time (Freedom Front and Afrikaner Eenheidsbeweging dissenting).
BURUNDI PROTECTION SUPPORT APPROPRIATION BILL
(Second Reading debate)
There was no debate.
Bill read a second time.
SOCIAL GRANTS APPROPRIATION BILL
(First Reading debate)
Mr F BHENGU: Mhlalingaphambili [Chairperson], Qhudeni [hon members], right at the outset I want to commend the President and the Minister of Finance for the allocation of R2 billion to resolve a very serious matter that touches, to my mind, on a theme that the ANC highlighted as part of our campaign directed towards poverty alleviation and clean and efficient governance. I will also touch on how the themes of education, human rights, and safety and security link up with our strategy plan for this year.
In terms of South African law, someone who is too sick to work, a woman who has reached the age of 60 years or a man who has reached the age of 65 years, is entitled to a social grant provided by the state. In our Constitution we also refer to the right of our people to have access to social security and to have their social rights respected.
What happened, to an extent largely in the Eastern Cape, but certainly across the country, is that beneficiaries who were entitled to social grants did not receive them. Let us be clear about this: delays in payment, as well as the effect of regulations introduced in 1977, resulted in severe hardship for many poor households.
We have changed the problematic regulations. From 1 December 2001 a beneficiary is eligible for payment of the grant from the day of approval. What we have learnt as governing party is that we cannot allow administrative inefficiencies to stand in the way of our people claiming their rights. So, we have to ensure that those officials in Government departments who are unwilling really to serve our people are weeded out.
I want to echo the sentiments of the President, in his state of the nation
address, when he said: Payment for honest work is more fulfilling and
sustainable than theft.'' We must, in the Public Service, be driven by the
principle of Batho Pele,people first’’. This means that where there are
problems in accessing a grant because of officials in the Department of
Home Affairs being unable to provide that person with an ID or where the
application of a disabled person is being blocked by the relevant health
authorities, those officials must be removed or re-educated so that they
understand and commit to the principles of Batho Pele.
In the Department of Social Development, in the Eastern Cape alone, ten
officials have already been found guilty of fraud and corruption, and they
have been removed from their posts. The cost of that corruption to
Government was more than R10 million. This we cannot tolerate.
In that province an internal fraud unit has been set up to ensure that this practice is stopped. In addition, it has set up multidisciplinary committees consisting of, among others, the SAPS, the banks and the office of the Attorney-General, in order to co-ordinate all fraud cases in which departmental officials are involved.
This is what we mean when we say, ``stand up and act’’. The Eastern Cape province has also started monitoring transactions at pay points, thus eliminating a large proportion of discrepancies in the payment of grants. We encourage the province to continue with these processes and to report the progress that they are making with regard to rooting out inefficiency and corruption.
We further commend the province in their efforts to process the back payment of grants in an orderly and efficient manner, and we also encourage those persons who were affected by class action to come forward with all their information and documentation, so as to assist the department in this process. The province has established that more than 2 300 beneficiaries cannot be traced. Because of this, we call on communities to assist in getting the information of the back payment of grants out to all relevant persons, so that bona fide beneficiaries can now get what is rightfully theirs.
We welcome the allocation in the budget of the Department of Social Development that focuses especially on the training of social security personnel in all the provinces, as well as the introduction of norms and standards for social security delivery.
We as parliamentarians must, through our constituency offices, also play our role in keeping an eye on the level of service delivery, and where there are problems, bring this to the attention of the relevant department. This we must do in the spirit of Vukuzenzele.
And so we say that in this month of human rights, as a starting point, let us be aware of the fact that Government respects the right of older persons, the disabled, and the poorest of our children to receive social grants. Old age and disability grants, for example, have been increased from R390,00 in 1994 to R620,00 this year. In addition the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework makes provision for further increases over the medium term that will be above the level of inflation.
Let us educate our communities about their responsibility not to allow the abuse of these grants once Government has paid them. We must not allow beneficiaries to fall prey to unscrupulous money lenders and confidence tricksters, who now see the opportunity to make a lot of money. The provinces will have to be clear about the manner in which money will be paid out and I want to commend those provinces that have already put on the table their strategy to deal with these payments.
Once the process is clear, let us play a role in ensuring that we identify all those persons in our constituencies and communities who are eligible for back payment, and let us then assist in making sure that they understand how payments will take place and what amounts are due to them. Let us speak out publicly against abuse and corruption so that we collectively raise consciousness about how we want to see the process unfold. In this way we will be contributing in enabling beneficiaries to access their rights in a safe and secure manner.
I have already heard this includes … abameli mntwanenkosi, amagqwetha … [… lawyers Chairperson, lawyers …]
… about groups of people in some of the provinces who are preparing themselves for attempts to defraud Government and the rest of society, by applying for back payment of grants, when in fact they are not eligible for this. We as communities must be vigilant and educate ourselves about what is morally the right thing to do.
Le nto mntwanenkosi yenzeka phaya kwelaa phondo sikulo, apho sidibana khona nala magqwetha encedisana naba bantu bangenamqolo, oorhoxotyeni. [This, Chairperson, happens in our province, where we get to meet these lawyers helping these crooks.]
We must also be mindful that in many cases the aged beneficiaries are not able to access the full grant amount, because they are being harassed, intimidated and abused by greedy relatives. We understand that the grant is a lifeline for whole families, but we can never let it become an excuse for people to rob their elderly relatives of what is a right in terms of South African law. Therefore, when older persons are given the responsibility of caring for grandchildren, we call on schools to ascertain whether the parents support those grandchildren or whether they are dependent on the old age grant. In such cases schools must make sure that they do not take school fees out of an old age grant, but rather find other ways of fully subsidising the learners. This is especially the case where children have been orphaned by HIV/Aids and where there simply are no parents to take care of their children.
The impact of HIV/Aids is already placing a heavy burden on our elderly generation. Let us provide that basket of services - health services, education and social security - in a manner that is sensitive to the reality of our people’s lives.
Lastly, we also learnt with shock that last year thousands of beneficiaries were forced to pay a commission on the cashing of social security cheques. This is unacceptable and one may expect that the larger the amount, the larger the deduction. I believe that we should be very clear about the fact that no matter what the payment system provided by the provincial government and preferred by the beneficiaries, shortcomings and administrative capacity must not disadvantage beneficiaries in this manner.
We support negotiations with the financial sector that are aimed at finding ways in which beneficiaries will be able to access their grants via bank accounts without the burden of paying expensive banking fees. We should also encourage the re-establishment of the Post Bank as a payment agency and ensure that post office agencies are brought to the people rather than being closed in the rural areas, as has been the case in some provinces.
Mandigqibezele mntane’nkosi. [Let me finish, Chairperson.] Let us not fall into the trap of lambasting all public servants. There are those dedicated and committed ones who work long hours under difficult circumstances, and there are also many volunteers who are assisting in this process. [Applause.]
Mr M L DA CAMARA: Chairperson, the Democratic Alliance is extremely pleased to see this Bill being enacted.
This Bill takes a first, but crucial, step in finally settling a period of untold hardship for many social grant beneficiaries that is a result of the disastrous re-registration process. Therefore, the DA is pleased to be able finally to support this Bill.
It is, however, distressing to note that after having to deal with the traumatic consequences of the incredibly insensitive and cruel mismanagement of the re-registration process, it took a court ruling for the state to make good its obligations to some of the most vulnerable in our society. This in itself speaks volumes about the real commitment on the part of many public servants in the fight against poverty.
This entire episode further demonstrates the need to review the entire means test system. A large number of the irregularities which the re- registration process sought to rectify emanated from the opportunities the means test regulations provided for crooked officials to defraud the department.
I hope that this experience will refocus the state on the prime function of a social security system, namely to protect vulnerable members of society from destitution, and in contrast to the current attitude of merely complying with bureaucratic rules and regulations, the poor application of which caused the problems in the first place. But before the intended beneficiaries of this Bill can celebrate, there are a few issues that remain to ensure that the funds reach the intended targets.
Although the funds will be disbursed to the provinces by way of conditional grants, special heed needs to be taken to guarantee that these funds fulfil the expectations of the High Court ruling. These funds cannot be used to top up provincial social development budgets, thereby freeing up money to be released in other departments in the provinces.
Further, in order to survive during this traumatic period and in anticipation of full payback, many beneficiaries ran up high debts. Of these many have since passed away, more often than not leaving their estates to poverty-trapped relatives with the burden of repayment.
This raises the question as to whether moneys to which beneficiaries in such cases are entitled, in terms of the High Court ruling, will be made available to those who now suffer the burden of these debts. This is a crucial question, since social grants do not form part of a deceased person’s estate.
At this juncture I must point out that this Bill should not only seek to right wrongs, but also seek to lighten that burden which is the ultimate result of the horrible bungling on the part of the state. It therefore becomes insufficient for the Bill merely to make the money available. The Department of Social Development must take the appropriate steps to ensure justice in this regard.
It is my and my party’s sincere hope that this Bill will finally put to rest the terrible experience of thousands of beneficiaries, and put us in a position in which we can sincerely say, ``never again’’. The DP supports the Bill.
Mr H J BEKKER: Mr Chairman, when a mother applies for a child grant or when a person in desperate need applies for a grant from Government, he or she does expect a response in a reasonable time. We all know about the delays and the unacceptably long waiting periods before approval is given.
The High Court has correctly ruled that the needy and the indigent cannot be punished and penalised for the delays in administration and that this grant should be paid retrospectively from application.
The IFP welcomes this ruling, and we are grateful that those entitled to grants will receive this extra windfall. This is a very large amount, being in excess of R2 billion, and it will have to be disbursed in a relatively short period.
We also know that this is a once-off expenditure, and that it is not going to be repeated. The IFP is therefore concerned about the capability of Government and particularly of provinces to see to it that these moneys end up in the correct pockets. Caution must be taken that we do not open up an opportunity for corruption of officials.
May I then say, just in passing, with regard to the hon Bhengu, that from our side we do not believe that the corrupt official can be re-educated. There is only one way for that person, and that is out.
With these cautionary words, the IFP will support the Bill.
Mr N M NENE: Chairperson, hon members, in the state of the nation address the President made a commitment to the beneficiaries of social grants that whatever inequities they have been victims of in terms of their pension payments, the ANC Government will make good. The Minister of Finance did the same in his Budget speech, and today we give effect to these commitments. I want to remind the hon member Da Camara that what we are addressing today is not the making of the ANC as Government. We are, however, repealing an Act of Parliament of 1992.
This Bill provides for R2 billion to be allocated to the national Department of Social Development to enable it to dispose of the matter without further delay. Approximately 1,8 million poor people are going to benefit from these arrear payments.
These arrears developed because of the inequitable regulations in terms of which beneficiaries were paid from the date of approval, and not from the date of application and the date on which they qualified. That legislation has since been amended to allow the beneficiaries to be paid from the date of application if they qualified. The hon member Bhengu has elaborated on this. This additional allocation will be made available to all nine provinces as determined by, and in terms of the conditions imposed on, the Division of Revenue Act of 2001.
I also want to assure the hon member that the wishes of his party, the DA or the DP, will also be met, because regarding those people that have passed away - if one looks at the categories - about R220 million has been allocated to 96 cases, amongst which are lapsed cases, those of people who have passed on.
There are also active members. An amount of R1,7 billion has been provided for 1,8 million beneficiaries, the majority of whom are in the highly impoverished provinces of KwaZulu-Natal, the Eastern Cape and the Northern Province. There are also suspended members. An amount of R43 million has been allocated to 16 000 such cases, and the administration costs are estimated at R33 million.
The information that will be used to determine the legitimate beneficiaries is available through Socpen, the social pension system, and we trust that this information is reliable and can be relied on as a starting point. There are, however, a number of related problems, some of which hon members have raised, with regard to the payment of social grants ranging from lack of infrastructure, to unscrupulous financial institutions, which are effecting stop orders on pensioners’ grants, some even without the consent of the beneficiaries. These matters are receiving the attention of the department and will need to be resolved so that the poor do not lose out at the end of the process.
The level of take-up varies from province to province and every effort is being made to ensure that all eligible beneficiaries are brought into the net.
The department has also established a commission to look into the entire social security system in order to address the poverty crisis in a more holistic way. Once this report has been completed, its recommendations will be considered. We look forward to this report, but whilst we are waiting for it, we need to ensure that the take-up is improved to include all eligible beneficiaries.
Let me take this opportunity to call upon all members to mobilise our community structures, churches and community-based organisations to arise and act to ensure that beneficiaries get what is rightfully theirs. The ANC supports this Bill. [Applause.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Good morning, all of you. [Applause.]
Dr P J RABIE: Chairperson, allow me to congratulate you. Indeed it is an honour and a privilege to address the honourable House when you are in the Chair.
The Social Grants Appropriation Bill relates to beneficiaries who became part of the system between 1 April and now. The cost estimates of this Bill are as follows: Active cases - R1,7 billion; lapsed cases - R22 million, which refers to 96 cases; suspended cases - R43 million; and the administrative cost of this grant will be R33 million. The money allocated will flow as a conditional grant to the provinces before the end of this financial year.
These funds will alleviate the plight of the poor. It appears that the income situation of millions of South Africans has deteriorated in the past 12 months. A recent study conducted by Mike Sampson, which was submitted to the Portfolio Committee on Finance, found that 26,9 million people had been estimated to live below the absolute poverty line, defined as R400 per adult in a household in this country. Of this 26,9 million live below the absolute poverty line, 10,4 million live in ultra-poor households. What the report found, and what is rather perturbing, is that many of the adults in these households earn less than R193 per month.
In the 2002-03 Budget the social pension was increased to R620 per month and the child support grant rose to R130 per month, which is commendable.
What is of concern, however, is that today the costs of administering grants, pensions and so forth, have become fairly high. I think we have to look at this again. Welfare agencies have also expressed concern at the number of children that are being abandoned once they are no longer eligible for child grants. A possible solution is that we extend the child support grant beyond the age of seven. Social pensions and social support grants are recognised as key factors regarding the alleviation of poverty. The New NP supports this Bill.
Om saam te vat: Armoede is vandag werklikwaar een van die verskynsels wat haas elke persoon in hierdie land beïnvloed. Dit is gebiedend noodsaaklik dat ons alle moontlike rolspelers betrek om hierdie probleem te bestry wat verreikende maatskaplike gevolge vir ons inhou. ‘n Ekonomie en ‘n samelewing kan nie vooruitgaan as daar nie voldoende voorsiening gemaak word vir die verligting van armoede nie. Daarvolgens doen ons ook ‘n beroep, nie alleen op die openbare sektor nie, maar ook op die privaatsektor. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[To summarise: Poverty today is, indeed one of the phenomenons that affects almost every person in this country. It is urgently necessary that we involve all possible role-players in order to combat this problem which may have far-reaching social consequences for us. An economy and a society cannot prosper if adequate provision is not made for the relief of poverty. Therefore, we are also making an appeal not only to the public sector, but also to the private sector. [Applause.]] Mr G W KOORNHOF: Mr Mlangeni, I am happy to see you in the Chair and I know that you will be as good a Chairperson as you are an excellent golfer. [Laughter.]
We welcome the statement by both the President and the Minister of Finance that administrative failures and weaknesses in legislation and regulations cannot and will not be tolerated. Such failures and weaknesses have a detrimental effect on many South Africans, especially the poor, with respect to service delivery. In addition, it causes budgetary uncertainty for different spheres of government.
We commend the trustees of the Black Sash who brought a court action against the Minister of Social Development and won it based on unfair regulations. It confirms the important role that civil society can play and must play to make sure that service delivery is fair and appropriate.
This Bill ensures that more than 1,8 million beneficiaries will receive what is due to them. The majority of these beneficiaries are children and old people, and reside in the provinces of the Eastern Cape, the Northern Province and KwaZulu-Natal.
Three important aspects now come into play regarding this Bill. Firstly, the administrative capacity of provinces to handle this additional burden must be strengthened. We want to put on record that this capacity-building process, for which R33 million has been budgeted for administration, should not be misused by only empowering party-political functionaries to administer the payout of these arrear payments in various provinces.
Secondly, the Department of Social Development should monitor this process of successful implementation with a hands-on approach. It has been alleged recently that problems with service delivery may in many instances be attributed to public officials refusing to make payments instituted by court orders, regulation or legislation. We should not allow this to happen, especially with the paying of arrears of social grants. Public servants should do their job properly. I fully associate myself with the sentiments expressed by Mr Bhengu earlier in this debate.
Thirdly, every effort should be made to keep to the indicated time frame for this process to be completed before the end of this calender year, but at least within the 2002-2003 financial year.
The UDM supports the Social Grants Appropriation Bill and hopes that the implementation process will be effective, so that beneficiaries, especially old people and children, qualify for this grant and will benefit. [Applause.]
Mr J H NASH: Chairperson, poor hon Da Camara starts off his speech as a member of the DP and ends his speech a member of the DA - that confused party once again. They do not know whether they are coming or going. Poor chaps! [Laughter.] They must please make up their minds. Read my lips: there is no DA in this Parliament. They must get it right the first time. [Interjections.] [Applause.]
As for the member making a noise here, he sits here with a document of the DA. There is no DA here. Read my lips. [Laughter.] [Applause.]
It is a real honour to take part in this debate today. Why are we debating? It is because we are carrying out a mandate spelt out by our President in his state of the nation address. President Mbeki is a people’s President. He sent us out to speak to our voters and to listen. During the President’s recent visits to all parts of the country he heard the pleas of our people, pensioners and the poor, and so he requested our Minister of Finance, Comrade Dr Minister Manuel … The Minister must please not get any more honorary doctorates; he can see what a long title he already has. It is because he is passionate to help those who are less privileged in our country.
Today I want to address those public servants whose daily task it is to serve the poor. Here I want to stress that the officials in welfare, health, the police and the courts are trying their best to follow the Batho Pele, ``people first’’ policy. But in the basket of good apples there are officials who thrive on being over-officious, and those who abuse people because they have so-called power. Every day we get complaints from people who have waited for long periods and have still not received their pensions or grants. Some have been waiting for more than a year, or even longer. Some have had their grants taken away and they do not know why this has happened.
An appointment was made by a lady from Molteno to go to East London for treatment. This meant that she had to get up at 3 am in the morning to meet the ambulance at 5 am, and travel three hours to East London, only to be told that she had to come back the next month because the doctor was not available. The medicine was not available that day. So the poor old lady had to wait until the next week when the ambulance driver would collect the medicine for her. That meant seven days of pain and suffering! [Interjections.] Every day one hears of people who come for their pensions only to be told, when they get to the office, that there was no money for them. What did the frail old person have to do to get to the pay point? He or she had to get up at 3 am or 4 am, walk to the bus stop, travel 30 km to the nearest pay point, wait in a long queue to be seen, only to be told to come back the next month.
Officials are impatient with these old people. They do not even take the trouble to go outside, to see which people are old and frail and take them to a separate queue and deal with them speedily. In the cold, rainy and windy weather these old pensioners have to wait. [Interjections.]
An HON MEMBER: Where is Stofile?
Mr J H NASH: Where is the spirit of ``Batho Pele’’? Where is the compassion? This is what we have to inculcate in our officials, to think of what they are doing.
The hon member is asking where Stofile is. What is he doing in the northern suburbs of Port Elizabeth? Must I tell him? Nothing! [Interjections.] It is not only Stofile that must be doing something, he, as a member there, must do something. He must go out to the people and help them to fill in their pension forms.
An HON MEMBER: He does not go home!
Mr J H NASH: He does not go home, yes, the hon member is right there. [Interjections.] This is what we have to inculcate. The public servants should think of the frustration they are causing. They should help their people. When a doctor is confronted with a man or woman who has lost both legs, whose hands are twisted and shrivelled with arthritis, the doctor should not say that this person is fit to work and should go home. The doctor should help that person, fill in that form. [Time expired.]
Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Chairperson and Minister, Mr Nash gave us a very passionate report which is very factual, and I want to commend him on it because that is the reality out there in our communities. I want to say that I am very pleased to say that the ACDP supports the President, Mr Mbeki, on the firm position that he has taken on dealing with public servants who do not fulfil their function and perform their duties. So, thank you very much, Mr President.
I would like to say that our children’s human development is a grave concern. Without the proper social infrastructure, our youngsters and our elderly struggle to live a normal life. Unemployment among parents is a key factor that robs our youth of prolonged schooling opportunities, as they need to work at an early age to support the family. The luxury of a basic living standard is difficult to comprehend, because in many instances families rely on the grant that a family member receives from the Government. Many people have waited for a year or two and have not received anything. It is very sad when one goes to the community and one hears of people who have to go to bed without food. It is incomprehensible and unacceptable.
Government has, in the current financial year, made a once-off conditional grant of R2 billion towards poverty relief. Provincial departments will be able immediately to gain access to their funds for distribution to those who, as a result of regulation, have suffered from inequitable grant payments, as well as ineffective and inefficient service delivery. I would like to thank the Minister for that R2 billion. I know it is going to be used wisely, but the Minister should please work on the department to see that this actualy gets through to the people who need it most. The ACDP supports the Social Grants Appropriation Bill.
Moh M A SEECO: Moh Motlotlegi Monnasetulo, mo boemong ba UCDP re lebogetse mokgwa o motlotlegi Tona ya bosetšhaba ya e abileng tekanyetsokabo ya Lefapha la Tlhabolololoago. Re lemogile fa mafapha a mangwe a abetswe thata. Re a itse gore bana ba motho ba kgaogana tlhogwana ya tsie.
Maitlhomo a lefapha leno ke go thusa thata batho ba rona ba ba sa itekanelang, batsofe, bana le masea, bogolo thata bana ba rona ba ba kobo di magetleng le dikhutsana. Re etse tlhoko thata botlhokatiro le khumanego, ka jalo lefapha leno ke lona mmelega-setšhaba. Tekanyetsokabo eno e tla thusa thata batho ba rona ba ba tlileng go nna batlotlegi le bopresidente ba kamoso.
Re tsibogela ntlha eno ka go ikuela gore kabeloloago eno e okediwe. Seno se tla tlhofofaletsa rona bomme, ka e le mokgwele mo go rona wa morafe o okailweng fa godimo. Re opa magofi ka gore re batla gore Ntlo e rebole gore lefapha leno le okelediwe matlole.
Motswana o rile ntime o mphele ngwana. UCDP ya re moono wa Batho Pele o tswelediwe pele ka go amogela kokeletso eno ya kabelo ya R2 billion, gore e direle setšhaba.
Kwa pele Batho Pele, kwa pele! (Translation of Tswana speech follows.)
[Mrs M A SEECO: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the UCDP I wish to thank the national Minister of Finance for the Budget allocation of the Department of Social Services. We also noted that the other departments’ budgets were also increased. We accept that, as members of one family, we have to share what we have.
The department’s intention is to help the disabled, the elderly, children and babies, more especially indigent children and orphans. We all know that there is a lot of joblessness and poverty, therefore this department has to come to the nation’s rescue. This budget will, in particular, develop our future leaders and presidents.
With that in mind, we urge that this department’s allocation be increased. This would make our work - particularly that of us, the mothers in this poverty-stricken nation, as demonstrated above - lighter. We appeal to the House to rule that the department be given more funds.
The Motswana of yesteryear said: ``You can deny me food, as long as you feed my child’’. The UDM says that the Batho Pele principle should be promoted by granting the department this R2 billion increase, to enable it to work for the nation.
Forward, Batho Pele [People First], forward!]
Dr M S MOGOBA: Chairperson, I take this opportunity to congratulate you. I believe it has been a long walk from the chains to the chair.
The PAC supports this Bill, particularly its once-off retrospective effect. We believe that the Minister has done very well in looking after this section of our community. I would only encourage the Minister to do more, because I believe that the minimum that people get in social grants can be increased. I think the Minister wants to increase this amount, and I want to encourage him to move in the direction of increasing it at every opportunity he has.
We believe that the question of social grants is a question that is very important for our communities, particularly the way in which the people receive their grants. I think we should do more to ensure that the areas where they receive their grants are improved and actually made very comfortable. This is not just a question of economic need, but a question of dignity, a question of affirming these people, because they need affirmation.
Many people travel long distances, sometimes in the rain, and wake up very early in the morning to leave. Sometimes the officials are a bit too officious in the way they treat the people. I believe that we must attend to this section. We must move to a banking system, so that it can help this community better than it is doing now, although the banks themselves are a problem. There are too many long queues there too.
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Order! Your time has expired, Dr Mogoba.
Dr M S MOGOBA: Chairperson, I would like to congratulate you and say that the PAC supports this Bill.
Mnu J Z KATI: Mhlalingaphembili nentlangano yonke iphelele elapha ePalamente, ndincoma ikakhulu umsebenzi owenziwe ngunondyebo, ndincome nomsebenzi kaMongameli kunye nabantu asebenza kunye nabo. Ukuba bebengakhange babe ngabantu abadibeneyo nabasebenzisanayo, ngekuthetha ukuba alikhange liphumelele eli cebo likaMongameli. Unobangela wokuba libe liphumelele namhlanje kungenxa yokuba uyavana nabantu asebenza nabo, babona ngeliso elinye. Yenza loo nto leyo ukuba bakwazi ukufikelela nakwesiphina isigqibo. Siyincoma kakhulu indima ethe yadlalwa ngunondyebo kunye noMongameli.
Phaya ezilalini kukho intlungu. Kuphawuleka ukuba kubakho imizi elala ingatyanga. Namhlanje ndiyacinga ukuba uMongameli kunye noNondyebo basinikile iintonga zokuba masihambe sibheke ebantwini, siyekubaxelela ukuba obu butyebi sasisithi sifuna ukuba babiwe nabu siza nabo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Ngoko ke, ngumsebenzi wethu lowo. Yiyo loo nto ke sisithi masiphume siye kubantu esibameleyo siye kubaxelela. Kuyazala eziofisini zethu. Abantu bafuna ukulungiselelwa. Bafuna kanye eli lungelo bangalifumaniyo.
Ngoko ke ndizama ukuthi zinkosi, ubunzima obukhoyo phaya bukhulu kuba umntu uyabhaliswa athi akugqiba ukubhaliswa kube nzima ukuba ayifumane imali, kuphele ixesha elide enkqonkqoza kuthi thina zinkokheli. Kuba nzima nakuthi, sithi sakufika phaya singafumani noncedo ngelinye ixesha. Ngelinye ixesha ukhe uye kukhalaza nawe uncedisa laa mntu, ungahoywa kwawena. Ngoko ke, ngeli nyathelo lithatyathwe nguMongameli kunye noNodyebo, inga ingalandela ngasemva le mali, kubekho ingxelo engenayo ethi yenze into ethile nethile. Ze bakhe bame oohlohlezabo. Aba bantu bathanda ukuhlohla ezabo izisu zebakhe bame, ibheke ebantwini ngokwabo imali. Lilonke ke ndifuna ukuthi, kuyo yonke into eyenzekayo, sizinikiwe iintonga ngoku zimbini. Siyahamba siya ebantwini siyakulwa, siyakubaxelela ukuba nabu ubutyebi size nabo.
Ndisafika kwesi sihlalo ndikuso, andifuni kuthetha kakhulu, ndakuthi kanti sendisona. I-ANC iyawamkela lo Mthetho uYilwayo. Bekunga kunganjalo naninina, de kuye nakweminye imithetho eza kuthi ize nemali. Sifuna enye. Mayingapheleli kule. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa speech follows.)
[Mr J Z KATI: Chairperson and the whole membership gathered here in Parliament, I would like to congratulate mostly the work of the hon Minister of Finance and that of the President and their teams. If they did not work as a team, it would mean that the hon the President’s plan would not have succeeded. The reason it succeeded was because of the people that he works very well with; they share the same ideas. That makes it easy then to reach a decision. The role that the hon Minister of Finance and the President played was very significant.
In the rural areas it is painful. Apparently in certain homes people go to sleep without food. Today I think that the hon the President and the hon the Minister of Finance have empowered us so that we could go to the people and tell them that we are bringing the wealth that we said we wanted to be shared amongst people. [Applause.] Therefore, that is our job. That is why we say that we should go to our constituencies and tell the people. Our offices are often filled with people who would like to be helped. They are demanding the right that is not granted to them.
By this I am trying to say hon Members, that there is so much difficulty there because often a person would be registered but payment would not be forthcoming, and for a very long time the person would come to us, the leaders. It is difficult for us too sometimes, as we would not be helped. Sometimes you would go (as a leader) to lay a complaint in support of that person, and you would not get assistance. Through the steps taken by the hon the President and the hon the Minister of Finance, I wish that the money could follow and hopefully a report would be submitted which would state what the money was spent on. Fat cats please step aside. I am asking the people who like filling their pockets up to wait and step aside; the money must go to the people. I want to say that we feel empowered now and we are ready to take up work. We are going to the people to fight, we are going to tell them that we have brought wealth. I am new in this portfolio. I do not want to say much in case I make mistakes. The ANC welcomes this Bill. I wish it would be like this at all times and with all the other laws that will bring money. We want more. This should not be the last. [Applause.]]
Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, the MF views the problem of disbursement of moneys in this department as a serious one. As the efficient disbursement of social grants is of paramount importance, taking into account the harsh realities of poverty, we need to learn from this experience.
The department must ensure that timeframes are set and adhered to rigorously by the provinces. And the provinces, in turn, have to ensure that the backdated funds reach the intended beneficiaries as soon as possible to alleviate suffering and discontent.
The MF does not stand here to criticise the department, as we are all aware of the department’s achievements and the difficulties it encounters in doing so. However, an excuse may not serve to cushion the harsh predicaments encountered by beneficiaries because of this backlog. This has been damaging the visibility of the success of our Government. Beneficiaries need to be informed that these are not handouts and that there is a genuine concern for their wellbeing and a serious commitment by our Government, and that the department is taking steps in this situation.
The MF welcomes and applauds the Government and the Minister of Finance for setting aside R2 billion for payment of grants in arrears. A serious look at the department’s infrastructure should be taken so as to find what hampers the performance of the department. The MF supports the Social Grants Appropriation Bill. [Applause.]
The TEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Mr A Mlangeni): Order! Hon members, I have just been informed that the hon Kati was making his maiden speech. I was not informed before he gave his speech. So, we wish to congratulate you, Mr Kati, on your wonderful speech. [Applause.]
Mnr C AUCAMP: Agb ``Adjunk-Adjunkspeaker’’, hierdie wetgewing, waarvolgens daar bykomend R2 miljard uit die sentrale Begroting aan die provinsies beskikbaar gestel word vir terugwerkende betaling van maatskaplike pensioene en toelaes van 1,8 miljoen mense, word deur die AEB ondersteun en verwelkom. Hiermee erken ons ons verpligting teenoor individue wat van April 1998 tot Desember verlede jaar vir die eerste keer vir toelaes gekwalifiseer het, maar uitbetalings eers later of glad nie ontvang het nie.
Hierdie agterstand in die betaling het by die provinsies opgehoop weens die lang tydsverloop tussen die wettige aansoek en die inwerkingtreding van die maandelikse uitbetalings. Ons mag nie toelaat dat die kwesbares en die weerloses ly as gevolg van administratiewe onbeholpenheid nie. Hierdie is die regte ding om te doen en ons het geen keuse nie. Die AEB betreur egter die feit dat administratiewe rompslomp en onbeholpenheid hierdie agterstallige bedrag veroorsaak het. Ons moet ook in gedagte hou dat maatskaplike pensioene aangewend word vir daaglikse oorlewing deur die ontvangers daarvan. Lang wagperiodes bring onvermydelik groot ongerief en ontbering mee vir hulle wat daarop geregtig is. Dit het baie arm huishoudings swaar getref. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr C AUCAMP: Hon ``Deputy Deputy’’ Speaker, the AEB supports and welcomes this legislation, in terms of which an additional R2 billion from the central Budget is made available for the backdated payment of social pensions and grants of 1,8 million people. We hereby acknowledge our obligation to individuals who, from April 1998 until December of last year, qualified for the first time for grants, but who only received payments later on or not at all.
This backlog in payments accumulated with the provinces because of the long period between the legal application and the commencement of the monthly payments. We may not allow the vulnerable and defenceless to suffer because of administrative ineptness. This is the right thing to do and we have no choice.
The AEB, however, deplores the fact that administrative red tape and ineptness have caused this backlog. We must also keep in mind that social pensions are being utilised for daily survival by their recipients. Long periods of waiting inevitably bring on great discomfort and hardship to those who are entitled to them. This has hit many of the poor households very hard.]
We must remember that backpay cannot stand in for last year’s hunger or last winter’s cold.
Administratiewe masjinerie moet onverwyld in orde gekry word om sodanige ongerief asook sulke abnormale uitgawes in die toekoms te voorkom. Die AEB wil drie dringende vrae aan die Minister stel: Watter maatreëls word getref om hierdie vertragings te voorkom? Hoe ver het die Departement van Bevolkingsontwikkeling gevorder met die vaartbelyning van die uitbetaling van maatskaplike pensioene? Watter maatreëls word getref om te verhoed dat die Regering se tweede span, naamlik die provinsies, en sy derde span, die munisipaliteite, die beste pogings van sy eerste span oorskadu en in die wiele ry?
Die AEB steun hierdie wetgewing. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[The administrative machinery must be fixed up at once in order to avoid such discomfort as well as such abnormal expenditure in future. The AEB would like to pose three urgent questions to the Minister: What precautions are being taken in order to avoid such delays? How far has the Department of Population Development progressed with streamlining the social pension payouts? What measures are being taken to prevent the Government’s second team, namely the provinces, and its third team, the municipalities, from outclassing the best efforts of their first team by putting a spoke in their wheel?
The AEB supports this legislation.]
Mrs B M NTULI: Chairperson, hon members and Ministers, Batho Pele! The Social Grants Appropriation Bill is a Bill that is going to change the lives of our old people in the rural areas. It is going to transform their lives because they are going to be able to put bread on the table, buy clothes to cover their bodies and buy blankets to cover themselves in winter. This is how committed this Government is, the Government of the people. This is an indication that the ANC-led Government cares for the aged. This is, indeed, a very brave step.
Lokhu kuyakhombisa ukuthi umbuso kaKhongolose uzimisele kangakanani ukwenza impilo yabo bonke abantu ibe ngcono. Le-R2 billion iyokwenza lokho nje kuphela. [This shows how determined the ANC Government is to improve the lives of all people. This R2 billion will be used for that purpose only.] A country that is not able to take care of its elderly people is a crazy country.
Ake ngithi ukucaphuna kulokho obekwenzeka esikhathini esiphambili. Esikhathini esiphambili laba bantu abadala bebesebenza kololiwe, sasisho njalo kulesiya sikhathi. Babesebenza kungabantu abamhlophe nabantu abamnyama. Bekuthi uma sebebadala sebephuma impesheni laba abamhlophe bekuba nemali ebekwa eceleni abazokhokhelwa yona, kukhokhelwe namakhosikazi abo kuze kukhokhelwe ngisho nabantwana babo uma bona sebefile. Kulaba bakithi kwakuthiwa nje ``baie dankie’’ abeseyahamba ayohlala ekhaya, ancele izithupha adle imbuya ngothi.
Omama bethu laba ababesebenza emakhishini, bepholisha izitubhi ezinde
eziyophuma ngesango, laba asebebulawa ngamadolo namhlanje, abangakwazi
ukusukuma namhlanje, bebethi uma sebephuma kulo msebenzi sebegugile,
bashaywe emahlombe kuthiwe baie dankie.'' Bebedla u u-baie dankie’’
bona uma befika ekhaya. Lona-ke ohleli esihlalweni ophethe umkhilosho
ongakaze enze lutho, ubeye ahole imali yendoda yakhe ephuma kwaloliwe,
eyoze idliwe nayizizukulu zakhe.
Lo mThetho uzosiza ukulungisa khona lokho okonakala ekuqaleni. Bekonakele, kuzolungiswa-ke manje. Nabo laba abasemakhaya bazophumelela ukuthola okuya ngasethunjini, baphumelele ukujabula. Kanti labo mama basemakhaya uma sebethole le mali izokwenza impilo yabo ibe ngcono. Phela labo mama ngomama bomthandazo, bayanikela nasemasontweni. Sengathi sengiyababona uma sebehlabelela bethi: (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)
[Let me refer to what used to happen in the past. Older people used to work for the railways. That is what we called it at that time. They worked as white and black people. When they got old and it was time for them to retire, the whites used to get money that was put aside for them. That money used to be paid to their wives and even their children when they passed away. To the blacks the employers used to say ``baie dankie’’ and the person went home and starved.
Our mothers, who used to work in the kitchens and clean the long stoeps
that end at the gates, are the ones that are experiencing knee pains these
days; they cannot stand up today. When they retired because of old age,
they would be patted on the shoulders, and they would be told baie
dankie''. They atebaie dankie’’ when they got home. The person who used
to sit on a chair and do the crocheting the one who did nothing, continued
to earn her husband’s salary from the railways, the money that would also
be received by her grandchildren.
This Bill will help to correct those mistakes of the past. It was wrong,
and now it is going to be corrected. Even those who are at home will get
something to eat; they will succeed and be happy. As for the women at home,
once they have received this money, their lives will improve. These women
are women of prayer, they make donations in church. It is as if I see them
when they sing: Kganthe Jesu o na mpona ha ke lla jwalo''. [And Jesus
heard my cry’’.]]
… sebesa umnikelo wabo beyobonga uNkulunkulu ngalokho akwenziwe.
Siyabonga kuNgqongqoshe ngezandla zombili. Sithi, halala! Kuhle lokhu akwenzele abantu bakithi. Bazophumelela futhi ukukhokhela omasingcwabisane babo. Izophela le ndaba yokuthi uma eselele umuntu omdala ingabi bikho imali yokumngcwaba. Siyabonga kuNgqongqoshe sithi phambili ngalo msebenzi omuhle kangaka awenzile! Lokhu esikwenza namhlanje kuzoguqula izimpilo zogogo emakhaya. Bazokwazi nokuya esibhedlela, banakekele impilo yabo kanye nokudla abakudlayo futhi badle kangcono.
Ngithe ake ngithinte ngale ndaba yalapho abaholelwa khona. Akunamithunzi lapho abahlala khona, akunazindawo zokukhosela noma imvula ina banethwa izimvula, kanti uma ilanga lishisa bashiswa yilanga. Akunazindawo zokuzikhulula laphaya futhi akunamanzi. Sicela ukuthi nalokho kulungiswe ukuze kuthi lapho bekuleziya zindawo bakwazi ukuhlala ngokukhululeka kube mnandi.
Ngizozama ukugcina ngalokhu. Ake sizame ukuziphucula lezi zindawo, siphucule nendlela abantu abahanjiswa ngayo uma beyohola impesheni. Kwesinye isikhathi uyaye uthole laba abagula kakhulu sebeqhutshwa ngamabhala uma besiwa lapho abaholela khona. Bekungaphuculwa lokho ngokuthi mhlawumbe asayinelwe kube khona nalo muntu ozomnakekela noma kube nesithuthi esizobathutha sibahambise lapho futhi bangabi selayinini omude ukuze bezothola imali yabo masinyane.
UNgqongqoshe wezimali uthe: (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)
[They are making donations, they are saying thank you to God for what has been done. We want to say thank you to the Minister. We say congratulations! This is a good thing that he has done for our people. They will now succeed in paying their funeral organisations. This will now put a stop to a situation in which an older person dies and people find themselves not having money to bury him or her. Thank you, Minister, we say forward with the good work that you have done! What we are doing today will change the lives of grannies at home. They will now be able to go to hospital and care for their health and improve the quality of the food they eat. I would like to say something about the place in which they receive their pensions. There is no shade, there are no places with roofs to shield them during rainy and sunny times, because they are burnt when it is sunny. There are no toilets or water. We would like these things to be provided for them so that they can wait freely and happily for their money.
We will do this in the end. Let us try to improve these places as well as the ways in which these people are transported to the places where they receive their pensions. Sometimes one finds that wheelbarrows transport those who are terribly sick. That can be improved by having someone to sign for them and someone to care for them or to provide them with transport. They should not stand in a long queue; instead they should get their money quickly.
The Minister of Finance said: Tlala e kotsing. Ka sesotho sa Limpopo re
re mma o tlile, tlala o nyele.'' [Hunger is in trouble. In Limpopo Sotho
people say mother has arrived, and now hunger has vanished.’’]
Sithi akube kuhle ekhaya, abantu bakithi bajabule, baphumelele ukuthokoza ebudaleni babo. Ayikho into ebuhlungu njengokuhlala kabuhlungu usumdala. Ngelinye laba basebenzi abadlala ngabo nabo bazoba badala. Sithi phambili ngombuso kaKhongolose, phambili! Phambili ngalokhu okuhle okwenziwa uNgqongqoshe, phambili! [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)
[Things must be good at home; our people must be happy in their old age. There is nothing more painful than living badly when you are old. One day those workers that ill-treat older people will get old. We say forward with the ANC Government, forward! Forward with the good thing the Minister has done, forward!] [Applause.]]
The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, at last this House has a chairperson with wing and a decent handicap. Congratulations! There is nothing to say after Mma Ntuli has spoken. There is really nothing to say, but let me just pick up a what the hon Bhengu said earlier, because I think that it is pertinent. Part of what we are dealing with here is the failure of democracy. It happens because we do not observe in our constituencies the failings of public servants. Therefore, if there is one plea arising out of this, it is that we correct these issues when we realise them. Far better that we correct them in the interests of people, and that we remain committed to Batho Pele, than that we come here and make grand statements. It is not about statements or resolutions or getting faces in the newspapers; it is about people in a complex system like ours, in a complex democracy like ours, where decisions about the administration of pensions are taken low down in the administration, far from where we are. It is necessary that we correct these issues when we are alive to them. It there is anything out of this experience, my pleading would be that we correct that.
The second issue is that the court did not rule this. There was an out-of- court settlement. In terms of the agreement between the Black Sash as litigants and the Department of Social Development, these are the agreements reached and then confirmed by the court.
The third point, to Dr Rabie, is that I am of the view that Mike Sampsons’ figures are suspect. But having said that, we must not in any way move away from the fact that grinding poverty is a reality for many South Africans. We must work to eliminate that. Let this be a beginning. Let us take these issues to our people and ensure that the true beneficiaries benefit from this. Let us root out freeloaders in society and let us ensure that we can get resources to the poorest of the poor.
Siyabulela kakhulu! [Thank you very much!]
Debate concluded. Bill read a first time.
SOCIAL GRANTS APPROPRIATION BILL
(Second Reading debate) There was no debate.
Bill read a second time.
The House adjourned at 11:10. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) Assent by the President of the Republic in respect of the
following Bill:
Births and Deaths Registration Amendment Bill [B 53 - 2001] - Act
No 1 of 2002 (assented to and signed by President on 12 March
2002).
(2) The following Bill was introduced by the Minister for
Agriculture and Land Affairs in the National Assembly on 15 March
2002 and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:
(i) Land and Agricultural Development Bank Bill [B 12 - 2002]
(National Assembly - sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and
prior notice of its introduction published in Government
Gazette No 22647 of 4 September 2001.]
The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Agriculture and Land Affairs of the National Assembly.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
(3) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 14 March 2002 in terms of
Joint Rule 160(6), classified the following Bill as a section 76
Bill:
(i) National Railway Safety Regulator Bill [B 7 - 2002]
(National Assembly - sec 76).
(4) The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of Finance in
the National Assembly on 15 March 2002 and referred to the Joint
Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule
160:
(i) Private Security Industry Levies Bill [B 11 - 2002]
(National Assembly - sec 77).
The Bill has, in accordance with a resolution by the National
Assembly on 15 March 2002, been referred to the Portfolio
Committee on Safety and Security of the National Assembly.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
National Assembly:
- The Speaker:
The following papers have been tabled and are now referred to the
relevant committees as mentioned below:
(1) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Finance:
(a) Strategic Plan of Statistics South Africa for 2000-2003
and 2004-2005.
(b) Strategic Plan of Statistics South Africa for 2002-2005.
(c) The Strategic Plan for the National Treasury for 2002-
2005.
(d) Memorandum of Subsidiary Arrangement between the
Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government
of Australia concerning Developing Profitable Beef Business
Systems for Previously Disadvantaged Farmers in South Africa,
tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(e) Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the
Republic of South Africa and the Government of Canada
concerning the South Africa Teacher Development Project,
tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(f) Rider No. 1 to Financing Agreement No. SA/B7-3200-99/26
between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the
European Union concerning the Support Programme for Social
Housing, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(g) Rider No. 1 to Financing Agreement No. SA7/-3200-96/14
between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the
European Union concerning the Trade and Industry Policy
Support Programme, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(h) Rider to Financing Agreements for programmes between the
Government of the Republic of South Africa and the European
Union, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution,
1996.
(i) Financing Agreement No. SA/73200/00/31 between the
Government of the Republic of South Africa and the European
Union concerning the Economic Integration Support Programme to
the BLNS Phase 1, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(j) Rider No. 3 to Financing Agreement No. SA/B7-5070-95/009
between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the
European Union concerning the Library Books and Training of
Historically Disadvantaged Institutions Programme, tabled in
terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(k) Rider No. 5 to Financing Agreement No. SA/97/3200/11
between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the
European Union concerning the Public Health Sectoral Support
Programme, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(l) Rider No. 1 to Financing Agreement No. SA/73200-98/12
between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the
European Union concerning the Technical Assistance Team to
Support Planning, Implementation and Monitoring of RDP
Projects, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(m) Rider No. 2 to Financing Agreement No.SA/73200-98/09
between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the
European Union concerning Support for the SADC Finance and
Investment Protocol, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(n) Rider No. 3 to Financing Agreement No. SA/95-75075-006
between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the
European Union concerning the Private Sector Development
Programme, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(o) Rider No. 1 to Financing Agreement No. SA/73200-98/03
between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the
European Union concerning the Financial Management Improvement
Programme (FMIP), tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(p) Rider No. 4 to Financing Agreement No. SA/96-73200-007
between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the
European Union concerning Non-Grid Electrification of Rural
Schools, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(q) Rider No. 1 to Financing Agreement No. SA/73200-00/31
between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the
European Union concerning the Economic Integration Support
Programme to the BLNS Phase 1, tabled in terms of section
231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(r) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the Government of the Republic of Finland on
Finnish Assistance to the Northern Province Rural Development
Programme, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(s) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the Government of the Republic of Finland
concerning general terms and procedure for Development Co-
operation, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(t) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the Government of the Republic of Finland on
Finnish Assistance to the Support to Environment and
Sustainable Development in the North West Province, tabled in
terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(u) Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the
Republic of South Africa and the Government of Flanders on
Development Co-operation, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of
the Constitution, 1996.
(v) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the Government of the Republic of France on
Development Co-operation, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of
the Constitution, 1996.
(w) Exchange of Notes concerning the Study and Expert Fund
project between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
and the Federal Republic of Germany, tabled in terms of
section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(x) Implementing agreement between the Government of the
Republic of South Africa and the Government of Sweden
concerning Local Government Support to the Northern Cape
Province, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(y) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the Government of Sweden on General Terms and
Conditions for Development Co-operation 1 September 2001-31
December 2005, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(z) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the Government of Sweden on a Partnership Programme
between Sweden and Buffalo City within the area of Urban
Development, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(aa) Amendment No. 1 to the Bilateral Agreement No. SO9AG-674-
0326 between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
and the United States of America concerning increased
commercial viability of existing small and medium
Agribusiness Programme, tabled in terms of section 231(3)
of the Constitution, 1996.
(bb) Amendment No. 1 to the Bilateral Agreement No. SO2-674-
0327 between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
and the United States of America concerning Workforce
Development Programme, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of
the Constitution, 1996.
(cc) Amendment No. 1 to the Bilateral Agreement No. SO6AG-674-
0312D between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the United States of America concerning Fiscal
Management of Urban Environmental Infrastructure, tabled in
terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(dd) Amendment No. 1 to the Bilateral Agreement No. SO4AG-674-
04A1 between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
and the United States of America concerning support for
economic growth and analysis and Mandela Economics Scholars
Programme, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(ee) Amendment No. 8 to the Bilateral Agreement No.674-0320-G-
00-5053 between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the United States of America concerning the
Equity in Integrated Primary Health Care Project, tabled in
terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(ff) Amendment No. 3 to the Bilateral Agreement No. SO1AG-674-
0322A between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the United States of America concerning the
Local Governance Support Programme, tabled in terms of
section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(gg) Amendment No. 7 to the Bilateral Agreement No. 674-0301-G-
00-4182-07 between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the United States of America concerning the
Criminal Justice Strengthening Programme, tabled in terms
of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(hh) Amendment No. 6 to the Bilateral Agreement No. 674-0314-G-
00-5041 between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the United States of America concerning the
Primary Education Results Package, tabled in terms of
section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(ii) Amendment No. 6 to the Bilateral Agreement No. 674-0315-G-
00-5042 between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the United States of America concerning the
Tertiary Education Linkages Project, tabled in terms of
section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(jj) Amendment No. 4 to the Bilateral Agreement No. GA-674-0309-
G-00-5048 between the Government of the Republic of South
Africa and the United States of America concerning the
Support to Tertiary Education Project, tabled in terms of
section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(kk) Exchange of Letters between the Government of the Republic
of South Africa and the Government of the United Kingdom
concerning Support for the Economic Reform Project Phase II,
tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(2) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Environmental Affairs and Tourism:
Strategic Plan for the Department of Environmental Affairs and
Tourism 2002-2005.
(3) The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Labour for consideration and report:
(a) Convention concerning Tripartite Consultations to Promote
the Implementation of International Labour Standards, 1976
(Convention No 144), tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(b) Convention concerning Occupational Safety and Health and
the Working Environment, 1983 (Convention No 155), tabled in
terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.
(c) Explanatory Memorandum to the Conventions.
(4) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Public Service and Administration:
Medium Term Strategic Plan for the Public Service and
Administration for 2002-2005.
(5) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
Safety and Security:
The Strategic Plan for the South African Police Service for 2002-
2005.
(6) The following papers are referred to the Standing Committee on
Public Accounts:
(a) Explanatory Memorandum on the Social Grants Appropriation
Bill, 2002 [B9-2002]
(b) Explanatory Memorandum on the Burundi Protection Support
Appropriation Bill, 2002 [B10-2002]
(c) Resolutions of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts
for 2001 and replies thereto obtained by the National
Treasury: Tenth and Fourteenth Reports, 2001.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- The Minister of Minerals and Energy:
Strategic Plan for the Department of Minerals and Energy for 2002-2005.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Assembly:
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Transport on the National Railway Safety Regulator Bill [B 7 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 13 March 2002:
The Portfolio Committee on Transport, having considered the subject of the National Railway Safety Regulator Bill [B 7 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 76), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 76 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 7A - 2002].