TUESDAY, 19 MARCH 2002 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 10:02.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

        DISCUSSION OF REPORT OF OBSERVER MISSION TO ZIMBABWE

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, before we start with today’s proceedings, I wish to acknowledge the presence in our midst of the joint chairpersons and representatives, including South Africa’s Ambassador to Brussels, who are here for the meeting of the ACP-EU Joint Assembly. You are welcome, and we are glad you joined us for this debate. [Applause.]

Ms N N MAPISA-NQAKULA: Firstly, I must express my gratitude and sincere appreciation to this House and to Madam Speaker in particular for allowing me to lead this delegation to Zimbabwe.

The Zimbabwean election has come and gone. A president of that country, Robert Mugabe, has been inaugurated. I believe that what is uppermost in the minds of the greater majority of that country’s population is Zimbabwe’s future. Everything that has happened in that country has happened to them directly. They had to confront want and deprivation in the face of food shortages and the death of social services. They have become victims of political instability that, at times, spills into violence and they are certainly asking the question: When will it all come to an end? That question is repeated all over the world. When will stability come to Zimbabwe? But we in South Africa, particularly we who are members of this Assembly, should say, as we ask that question, that we are ready to contribute to the pursuit of peace and stability in Zimbabwe. We cannot turn our backs on that country for the obvious reason that we would be deeply affected as a country were Zimbabwe to collapse. As we attempt to help that country and her people, we must never dictate to them what needs to be done and how it should be done. In the end it is the Zimbabweans themselves who should chart the way forward as they rebuild their country.

When our parliamentary delegation left for Zimbabwe on 22 February, we were very united. We were also united as we carried out the task that Parliament had given us. Our commitment to that cause could not be faulted by anyone. In fact we received praise from all sides of the political spectrum in Zimbabwe.

Our observations of what was happening on the ground were similar in most respects, as is confirmed by the report that we are tabling before Parliament today. It is my view and has been my position since arriving in Zimbabwe that elections extend over three phases: The first is the pre- election phase, followed by the actual poll and the postelection phase. I want to argue, therefore, that when we do an overall assessment of elections, it is proper to look at the whole picture. I am mentioning these things because the delegation may not necessarily be united on the ultimate pronouncement regarding the Zimbabwean election. I believe that our difficulty relates to our failure to assess, in the same way, the three phases and the total picture I have referred to.

Allow me to then address the House on the phases. It is true that the pre- election phase was marked by incidents of violence in Zimbabwe. It is also necessary to say that there were widespread allegations of violence, some of which we were able to verify. Others were not confirmed. I want to indicate to the House that not every corner of Zimbabwe was wracked with violence. In fact, even in areas where there were incidents of violence, it did not permeate right through those centres.

I was part of the observer mission that this House sent to observe the parliamentary elections in Zimbabwe. I am certain we will not forget the media images of the violence that happened on that occasion, especially as farms were forcefully occupied and farmers attacked, with many people falling victim to that situation. I did not feel, this time round, that the level of intensity was the same as that experienced earlier by our delegation in 2000. Of course, there was violence that was mostly sporadic. There has been no evidence, though, that the violence and intimidation had any effect on the voters.

The massive turnout at the polls on each of the three days set aside for the election testifies to this. Nobody can fault the enthusiasm and determination of the Zimbabweans to vote and choose their leadership.

There were many unfortunate remarks that were made before, during and after the election by some commentators, including some leaders of some of the countries of the West. It is extremely unfortunate that the British Prime Minister, Mr Tony Blair, in particular was amongst world leaders who made negative observations about the Zimbabwean leadership, to the point that he said that he would not recognise the outcome of the election if Zanu-PF was declared the winner. That was not only unfortunate, but also extremely dangerous coming, as it did, from a head of a colonial power of Zimbabwe. [Applause.]

It was also unfortunate that the MDC leader, Morgan Tsvangirai, when addressing the international observers, categorically stated that he would not accept the outcome of the election if he did not win. [Interjections.]

To us, as the ANC, the total picture of what happened in Zimbabwe convinces us that the election result was a credible expression of the will of the people of that country and thus deserves our respect. [Applause.] It deserves our respect.

As I have already said, the post-election problems of Zimbabwe will impact on us. The crises, the people and the leadership in that country, politically and otherwise, including civil society, will have to be faced and resolved by the Zimbabweans themselves, in the first instance. [Interjections.] But, surely, they will need a lot of assistance from all well-meaning people right across our globe.

We do not have the luxury, as South Africans, to choose to be hostile observers in that situation. We have a direct interest in the matter and must ensure at all times that all our neighbours, including Zimbabweans, are peaceful and stable. Therefore, we cannot watch Zimbabwe going down the path of self-destruction. [Applause.]

The challenge of the sociopolitical reconstruction of Zimbabwe is a challenge that the country’s people must face. They must unite at every level of their human interaction and endeavours so that, as a united nation, they can defeat the enemies they have been facing for a long while now, of poverty, landlessness, unemployment and disease. [Interjections.] Zimbabwe is a highly polarised country. This, in the first instance, relates to the urban-rural divide. This divide is historical. It has to do with the fact that the peasantry headed the motive forces of the struggle for liberation in that country. That is why the question of land in Zimbabwe is such a sensitive matter and should be handled as such. That is also the main reason for Zanu-PF’s predominance in the rural countryside.

The polarisation in that country is palpable. Even the media are divided along political lines. National unity and reconciliation are an absolute necessity. [Applause.] Fortunately for us, we have the experience in South Africa that we can contribute to the ideal of peace and nation-building in Zimbabwe. Despite different political programmes and orientation, we still engage in dialogue, as South Africans, because of the enormous responsibility entrusted to us by our people from all walks of life.

The struggle to reposition Zimbabwe does not belong to Mugabe and Zanu-PF only. It belongs to Tsvangirai and the MDC and all other leaders of the respective formations in that country. [Applause.] But, I must keep on emphasising that it is a struggle which they should not be expected to conduct alone, in isolation. The world must help and South Africa must be at the top of the list of those who render that assistance. [Applause.]

We would be extremely naïve if we were to believe that Zimbabwe’s future is not linked to ours. It is, in major material respects. I do not have to go into the history of that country to make my point. All of us here know that quite well.

There are commentators, both in South Africa and abroad, who have said the experience in Zimbabwe will detrimentally affect Nepad and that the President, Comrade Thabo Mbeki, must act in a manner that will save that programme. In other words, it is suggested that he should support sanctions against Zimbabwe and other punitive measures that have been suggested against that country and Mugabe personally to get help in regard to Nepad. I believe that the world leaders who have committed themselves to Nepad will indeed participate in this programme unconditionally. They will not want to use Nepad as a measure to blackmail our people. [Applause.] We believe in the morality of their judgment on all developmental questions, and we therefore do not doubt their commitment to participating in Nepad.

I think it is proper that I should thank all hon members who were with me in the delegation to Zimbabwe. At this point we may have come to different conclusions about what has happened to Zimbabwe, but I think that it is the honourable thing to thank all the hon members for the support that they rendered to one another and for the manner in which we conducted our business as MPs with integrity and professionalism. I believe that what is tabled in the report as a conclusion is not something that can lead to a division in the delegation. It is absolutely necessary to put the record straight in this House that in fact the substantive matters in the report, the entire content of that report which is tabled before hon members, is a product of a collective effort. We sat yesterday, from nine o’clock until eleven o’clock in the evening, and agreed on the substantive matters in the report. [Applause.]

Mr E K MOORCROFT: Madam Speaker, I should begin by paying tribute to the manner in which the hon Chief Whip of the Majority Party led the delegation in Zimbabwe. If Parliament had been a little more generous with my time, I could be more generous in my appraisal of the way in which she led us. [Applause.]

The DP was represented on the Parliamentary Observer Mission by the hon Andries Botha and myself. According to our instructions from Parliament, we and the mission had to assess whether conditions existed for the conducting of an election that could demonstrate the general will of the Zimbabweans. Among other issues, we were to observe and consider the freeness and fairness of the political environment; whether political parties had unrestricted access to voters; whether the rules regulating the process were being adhered to by the parties; and whether there had been incidents of electoral violence and how they had been dealt with.

In all of these matters, we had to take into account much more than what happened on the polling days of 9 and 10 March 2002. We had to consider whether in the pre-election period, which stretched back for at least until the latter half of 2001, conditions for a sufficiently free and fair election had prevailed.

It is our considered opinion that in all of the above matters, the elections fell lamentably short of what could even be considered the rudiments of a free and fair election. [Applause.] The presidential elections cast a long shadow. Since its defeat in the 2000 referendum, the ruling Zanu-PF party has relied on a campaign of merciless intimidation to subdue its opponents.

This strategy was stepped up in both intensity and brutality in the recent elections. It consisted of a campaign of state-sponsored, nationally orchestrated violence, torture and destruction of property. It was aimed at retaining the ruling party’s hold on power at all costs, even if this meant the destruction of the economy. In the process it rode roughshod over human rights; it subverted the rule of law and cynically exploited its legislative powers. Nothing was sacrosanct, not even racism, tribalism or the emotive land issue. All were cynically exploited regardless of the long- term consequences to the country.

The campaign of terror was spearheaded by the so-called war vets and youth militia, both of whom seemed to vie with one another to prove who could be the most ruthless and brutal. There is a considerable and ever-growing body of evidence to substantiate this claim. It was this violence which, in our estimation, was responsible for the creation of a climate in which free and fair elections could not take place. All evidence points to the fact that, although both parties were responsible for acts of violence, it was members of the MDC who were massively the victims of the violence. The other factors which militated against the holding of free and fair elections were the provisions of the legal constitutional framework and the abuses of the electoral system which took place. With regard to the latter, mention need only be made of the tens of thousands of disclosed persons who were denied their right to vote, because they had been forced to leave the constituencies in which they had been registered, or the further tens of thousands who were unable to vote because of the deliberate reduction of polling stations in the urban areas, creating conditions of congestion and chaos in which people either left the polls in despair, or else were dispersed by the riot police.

One further feature of the elections which is deserving of mention is the fact that they were held in a climate in which the rule of law had effectively broken down. The most obvious manifestation of this was the shameful way in which the police deliberately adopted a partisan approach with regard to Zanu-PF. In case after recorded case, the police refused to take action against members of the ruling party who were responsible for acts of violence against the opposition. The first and most pressing task of any democratic government which might in the future take control of Zimbabwe will be to restore the rule of law.

For all of the above reasons, and for many more, which I do not have time to address, but which my colleagues will also touch on, the DP cannot endorse the 2002 Zimbabwean presidential elections as having been either free and fair or as representing the will of the Zimbabwean people.

Vho R S NḒOU: Mulangadzulo wa Mufumakadzi, vhahulisei vha Phalamennde, na khonani dzashu dzine ra vha nadzo fhano. Na nṋe ndi muṅwe wa vhathu vhe vha vha vho ya hangei Zimbabwe, u ya u lavhelesa mafhungo a dzikhetho dza ḽeneḽo shango. Ndi ngoho ro swika hangei Zimbabwe nga dzi 22 dza ṅwedzi wo fhelaho.

Tshe ra wana tshone ri tshi swika, ho vha uri zwine zwa khou ambiwa nga vhathu na nga vha midia vha fhano Afurika Tshipembe, a ri ngo zwi vhona rine hangei Zimbabwe. Na mafhungo ane a khou ambiwa nga vhathu nga ha kudzulele kwa vhathu vha Zimbabwe, u tambula kana u sa vha na mulayo havho, a si zwone.

Arali ra tou zwi sedza zwavhuḓi, vhathu vhane vha amba uri Zimbabwe a huna na tshithu na tshithihi tsho lugaho, ndi vhatshena, a si vhathu vharema. Na hanengei Zimbabwe arali vha nga ya, vha ḓo wana vhathu vhane vha amba hezwo vhe vhatshena.

A si vhathu vharema vhane vha amba hezwo. Vhathu vha Zimbabwe hezwo zwine zwa khou ambiwa, a vha zwi ḓivhi. [U dzhenelela.] Zimbabwe yo wana mbofholowo nga 1980, nga murahu ha zwenezwo, ho vha na dzikhakhathi shangoni ḽa Zimbabwe musi hu tshi vha na nndwa nga tshavho. Ho fa vhathu vhanzhi nga hetsho tshifhinga. Fhedzhi-ha, vhenevho vhathu vhane vha khou ambesa ṋamusi, a vha ngo amba tshithu nga vhathu vho faho nga tshenetsho tshifhinga, ngauri ho vha hu vhathu vharema vhane vha khou fa.

Musi hu tshi tou fa muthu muthihi wa bulasini wa mutshena, hu vuwa ha vuwa na vhatshena vha Amerika, vha sa athu u vhuya vha swika fhano kha shango ḽa Afurika. Vha ima nga milenzhe, fhedzi vha hashu vha tshi fa, a vha ambi tshithu. [U dzhenelela.]

Mugabe a si muṱaluli nga muvhala ngauri, musi a tshi lwela mbofholowo, muvhuso wa Smith wo vha u tshi khou vhulaha vhathu vhanzhi nga maanṋa, vhana vhaṱuku-ṱuku na vhasadzi. Fhedzi Mugabe o ri u wana muvhuso, havho vhathu vhothe a si vha fare. Na ṋamusi vha khou tshimbila vho vhofholowa na u khetha vha a khetha, vha tshi dovha vha ṱongela honouḽa o vha vhofhololaho. Zwino ndi zwifhio zwine na khou amba zwone?

Nga nnḓa ha hezwo, zwe ra wana zwone hangei Zimbabwe, ndi u dzhenelela ha Tony Blair kha mafhungo a Zimbabwe. Honoho u dzhenelela ha Tony Blair kha mafhungo a Zimbabwe, zwi khou tou sumba zwauri ha khou ambela vhathu vha Zimbabwe, u khou amba mafhungo awe a uri vha hashu vhatshena, vha khou ḓo tambula, ngauri shango ḽa Zimbabwe tshe ḽa vhofholowa, 4 200 ya mabulasi, i tshe zwanḓani zwa vhatshena. Vhatshena a vha shoni. Vha vhona zwo fanela. [U dzhenelela.] Vha amba nga u vhusa nga mulayo kana rule of law. Hufhio u vhusa nga Mulayo? Ngauri u vhusa nga mulayo ho ḓiswa nga Mugabe na Nkomo hafho Zimbabwe. Ho vha hu si na u vhusa nga mulayo. Seller Scouts ndi u vhusa nga mulayo. Ndi amba Selous Scouts. [U vhanda zwanda.] Ndi u vhusa nga mulayo u vhulaha vhathu vha si na mulandu? Hu ri dimokirasi yeneyo ine ya vha hone ine na khou amba yone musi ni tshi ri vhudza nga misi, yo pimiwaho ya dzitshakha kha dimokirasi, zwoṱhe zwenezwo zwine na amba zwone. [U dzhenelela.] A ni ngo vhuya na ri ṋea heyo dimokirasi vhoinwi. A huna na muthu na muthihi o ri ṋeaho dimokirasi.

Fhedzi, Mugabe na Nkomo ndi vhone vho ḓisaho dimokirasi kha shango ḽa Zimbabwe. [U vhanda zwanḓa.] A i ngo ḓiswa nga Tony Blair na Harold Wilson. Yo ḓiswa nga Mugabe na Nkomo dimokirasi kha heḽo shango. Zwino, a ri koni u funziwa rine nga vha vhukovhela nga ha dimokirasi ye vha sa ri fhe yone, ye riṋe ra tou i lwela. Ndi rine vhane vha tea u funza havha vhathu nga dimokirasi. Ri tea u vha funza zwauri dimokirasi ndi mini. [U vhanda zwanḓa.] Ndi riṋe ri ne ra ḓivha zwauri dimokirasi ndi mini. A huna dimokirasi ine vha nga ri vhudza yone.

Vha amba nga milayo ya dzitshakha ya dimokirasi. Ifhio ya dzitshakha. Ho vha na khetho zwenezwino Amerika, ha mbo ḓi vha na u dzhavhula muvhuso, nga vhanna vha khothe, vha dzhenisa muṅwe muthu. [U dzhenelela.] Kha vha pfe ngeno vhone vho khotsimunene, zwine vha khou amba zwone, a vha zwi ḓivhi. Rine ri zwipondwa zwa u tambula.

Ro dzheniswa dzikhothoni nga vha hanu. Vha tshi ri fara vha tshi ri pfisa vhuṱungu. A ni ngo vhuya na amba tshithu.

Nga 1976 musi vha tshi ri vhulaha a ni ngo vhuya na amba tshithu. No vha ni tshi ri ndi u vhusa nga mulayo. U vhulawa hashu ndi u vhusa nga mulayo. U vhulawa hashu, ndi u vhusa nga mulayo. [U vhanda zwanḓa.] A si zwone hezwo lini. Vhathu kha vha gude u amba ngoho, vha litshe u vha vhaswaledzi shango ḽoṱhe. Kha ri ambe ngoho ya uri musi ri tshi vhulawa, no vha ni ngafhi vhoinwi vhane na khou kona u amba ṋamusi. Ro ni ṋea mbofholowo hei ine na khou amba ngayo. A ri khou ri tshithu ngazwo. Vhaṅwe vhanu arali ra nga tou ni tevhelela, ni na milandu. Ndi rine vhe ra bvisa ngoho. [U dzhelela.] Ndi riṋe ro zwi itaho uri hu vhe na Khomishini ya Ngoho na Vhupfumedzani nahone, ra sa fare na muthu na muthihi. Fhedzi, ndi tshiḓahela shagoni ḽanga. A thi ngo wela milambo ndi tshi ya kha shango ḽa muṅwe muthu.

Ndi khou amba zwauri, zwe Tony Blair a ita zwone, na zwiṅwe a khou zwi ita zwino, zwi tea uri zwi karuse Afurika yoṱhe, [Tshifhinga tsho fhela.] kha zwauri havha vhathu, a vha imi na riṋe nahone vha nndwani na riṋe. [U vhanda zwanḓa.] (Translation of Tshivenḓa speech follows.)

[Mr R S NDOU: Madam Speaker, hon members and our friends who are here, I am also one of those people who went to Zimbabwe as an election observer. It is true, we arrived in Zimbabwe on 22 March.

What we found there on our arrival was that what was being said by the South Africans and their media was not what we saw in Zimbabwe. Even the rumours that are being spread by the people about the standard of living of the Zimbabweans, their suffering or their lack of morals, are not true.

If we look at this very carefully, we see that the people who are saying that there is nothing good in Zimbabwe are the whites, not blacks. Even if one goes to Zimbabwe, one will find that the people who are saying that are the whites. It is not the blacks who are saying that. The people of Zimbabwe are not aware of what is being said. [Interjections.] Zimbabwe gained its independence in 1980 and after that there were riots and civil war. Many people were killed during that time. But those people who are talking so much today said nothing about those who died during that era, because it was the black people who died.

If one white person dies, it causes whites from America to react, especially those who have never been to Africa. Then they stand on their feet, but if our people die, they say nothing. [Interjections.]

Mugabe is not a racist, because when he fought for freedom, the Smith government was killing lots of people, young children and women. When Mugabe came to power, he did not arrest those people. Even today, they are still walking free, voting and looking down on the very same person who emancipated them. So, what is it that those hon members are saying now?

Another thing that we found in Zimbabwe was the interference of Tony Blair in Zimbabwe’s affairs. The interference of Tony Blair showed that he was not speaking on behalf of the people. They might think that it was his fellow whites who were suffering. Since the liberation of Zimbabwe, 4 200 farms are still in the hands of the whites. The whites are shameless. They see this as the right thing to do. [Interjections.] They speak of the rule of law. Is the way of the Seller Scouts, their rule of law? I mean Selous Scouts. [Applause.] Is the killing of innocent people the rule of law? Even the democracy that the opposition is always telling us about is racist. [Interjections.] Those hon members did not bring that democracy to us. No one gave us that democracy.

But, Mugabe and Nkomo brought democracy to Zimbabwe. [Applause.] It was not brought about by Tony Blair or Harold Wilson. Democracy in that country was brought to them by Mugabe and Nkomo. The Western people cannot teach us about democracy and they did not bring it to us - we were the ones who fought for it. We are the ones who must teach them what democracy is. [Applause.] We are the ones who know what democracy is. There is no democracy which they can tell us about.

They talk about the international laws of democracy. Which international laws? There were elections not too long ago in America, which resulted into a coup d’état by the court officials and somebody was put into power. [Interjections.] I want the hon member to listen to me, as he does not know what he is talking about. We are the victims of hardship. We were imprisoned by the hon member’s own people. We were arrested and tortured, but then they said nothing about that. In 1976, when they killed us, the hon members said nothing. They called that the rule of law. Our killings were then the rule of law. [Applause.] That was not fair. People must learn to speak the truth. The whole country must not consist of liars. Let us speak the truth about where those hon members were while we were being killed. Where were the hon members who are speaking today?

We gave them the freedom which they are talking about. If we look at some of them, they are guilty. We exposed the truth. [Interjections.] We insisted that there should be a Truth and Reconciliation Commission and we never arrested anyone. But, I am still regarded as a fool in my own country. I did not cross the river, going to somebody else’s land.

What I am saying is that what Tony Blair did, and what he is doing now, should awaken the whole of Africa. They are the people that are against us and are also fighting us. [Time expired.] [Applause.]] Chief M W HLENGWA: Madam Speaker, first of all may I register our appreciation for the opportunity we enjoyed of being led by the hon Chief Whip of the Majority Party. [Applause.] The IFP does not wish to bury Zimbabwe, neither do we praise them. We merely wish to examine the facts and put the whole matter in the proper perspective.

I wish to start by quoting what my leader, Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi, stated in a press release that appeared early on the morning of 13 March, and I quote:

I have kept silent for a long time about the rapidly deteriorating economic, social and political situation in Zimbabwe in the hope that this week’s elections could heal these problems. I have not ignored or denied these problems and I have regarded them as a clear example of how a lack of democracy, freedom and liberties can disintegrate a country and become the greatest possible curse to its people. I have prayed in the hope that things could be turned around.

I am very saddened to receive reports from independent observers that seem to indicate that things have not gone well enough during an election which can no longer be regarded as free and fair. It must be understood that in the Zimbabwe electoral system the one who passes the post takes all and the one who is defeated takes nothing. If one were faced with a vast disproportion of votes, allegations of impropriety would be less relevant. But, in a situation in which the reported spread of difference in votes between the two candidates is so small, any allegation of impropriety which departs from the standards of democracy and freedom tilts the scales in a very significant fashion, which alters the real will of the people.

Apparently there is consensus among the independent observers on some of the many problems observed, some of which are relevant to our perception of the Zimbabwe elections. Reportedly, the voters’ roll was adversely affected by the requirement of long-term residence in the voting district when many people were forced out of their habitual places of residence and others were induced to leave the country on account of their dual citizenship.

The state-controlled media has also been reported as showing overwhelming support and bias in favour of one of the candidates and the police forces have been reported as playing a supportive role to one of the candidates.

Similarly, it has been reported that one of the candidates’ electoral teams had the exclusive use of all the schools across the country for their logistical support. Moreover, on Monday many people wishing to enter the parameters of voting stations were not allowed in, thereby becoming disenfranchised.

We cannot ignore these reported problems, and we cannot isolate them from the many problems which we have seen taking place in the run-up to the elections, which have highlighted how democracy and freedom in Zimbabwe have progressively disintegrated. The very notion of the rule of law and all the values which our democracy professes to hold dear have long been in jeopardy in our neighbouring country. We cannot but be extremely concerned, saddened and worried about this further turn of events which seems to plunge Zimbabwe even deeper into a crisis.

We must express our support to the people of Zimbabwe, who are the final arbiter of their destiny and who will have to find the strength, courage and inspiration to deal with the historic misfortune of their present circumstances.

The leader of the IFP issued this press statement on the basis of the report he received from the SADC Parliamentary Forum, which concluded that the Zimbabwean elections did not comply with SADC’s minimum ethical standards, for the holding of free and fair elections. We must ask ourselves why this important report has been ignored by all and was, in many respects, suppressed in the public debate. The Chairperson of our own IEC, Brigalia Bam, has spoken frankly and openly, stating that the elections were neither free nor fair.

The time has come for this House to raise its voice to condemn the many irregularities in the long run-up to and during these elections, in the strongest possible terms. Former President Mandela called the government in Harare a ``tyranny’’, and no better word can describe the progressive disintegration of the rule of law, … [Applause] … the systematic violation of fundamental rights and liberties and the disintegration of proper governance. This tyranny is oppressing our closest neighbours and friends, and indirectly, is oppressing our own people.

We had to write off billions of rands of our people’s money in loans and credit guarantees because this tyranny has bankrupted a country which just a few years ago the world looked at as a possible Switzerland of Africa. We are even supplying Zimbabwe with electricity at a much lower cost than we do to our own people.

Because of the tyranny in Zimbabwe, the dream of an African Renaissance, flowing from Nepad, may be shattered. We cannot divorce democracy from development and if we are not serious about promoting democracy and freedom wherever they are threatened, the world will not be committed to promoting our development.

Zimbabwe has become the typical example of Africa’s self-inflicted injuries because of its unwillingness to to stand firm by the principles of freedom and democracy. We must make sure that this House does not hesitate nor falter in its qualified condemnation of the entire Zimbabwean democratic degeneration which culminated in a flawed election.

We must condemn, but not sanction. The IFP has always opposed economic sanctions because they punish the innocent and affect the poorest of the poor. We must plead with democratic countries of the world not to impose economic sanctions, which will be an ineffective effort to deter those who abuse power, but starve their victims. The economic collapse of Zimbabwe has thus far not deterred the ruling regime and sanctions will not force it out of its ways. Sanctions will not work.

In the past we kept silent in the hope that honey could catch more flies than vinegar, but it has clearly not worked. These elections have been unfair from the beginning, as they took place after years of unlevelled playing fields and were the product of extensive gerrymandering.

Only an unquestionably free and fair election could have turned the tables. It did not happen. Zimbabwe has gone further down the same path.

We must now express our moral indignation and condemn what has happened last week and what has been happening for the past two years. We need to speak up to save our own continent and our own democracy in order to avoid the impression that we would ever regard elections like those in Zimbabwe as free and fair if they were run in South Africa. The standard we adopt today to judge Zimbabwe must be the same as we would adopt to preserve our own democracy. [Applause.] Finally, the IFP rejects the conclusion in the report espoused by the ANC component that the Zimbabwe election is a credible expression of the will of Zimbabwe’s people, and we confirm our minority party’s conclusion that the Zimbabwe elections cannot be endorsed as being genuinely free and fair. [Applause.]

Mr M I SCOTT: Madam Speaker and hon members, it is an honour to speak on this important debate on Zimbabwe. The elections attracted a lot of interest in the internal and international arena.

Zimbabwe is a country that is experiencing serious problems. Since the failure of its structural adjustment programme, the social revolution has been undermined, the gains in education and the health sector have been eroded, the economy is under stress, the inflation rate stands at 112%, unemployment is estimated at 60%, the exchange rate has doubled, there are serious shortages of foodstuffs, a big chunk of land is still in the hands of white farmers and it is a country that is going through a very serious social crisis. Zimbabwe is highly polarised. It is worse with both print and electronic media. All parties, including the ruling party, agree that the constitution of the country, which emanated from the Lancaster House negotiations, is flawed and needs to be rewritten.

Zimbabwe experienced a low-intensity conflict within itself over the past two years and this was exacerbated by the land question. All reports suggest that late last year there was an establishment of militia youth camps all over the country, sometimes referred to as ``green bombers’’. They have been involved in acts of intimidation and violence. According to reports most of these acts are committed at night against opponents. Violence and intimidation have resulted in no-go areas and some areas are either under Zanu-PF or the MDC.

It is important to highlight that there is no side that is clean in the Zimbabwean situation, particularly with regard to Zanu-PF and the MDC. What is worrying is that the carrying out of these acts of violence is done with impunity. There are very few prosecutions that have resulted from all sorts of acts of violence on both sides in that country.

People have been forced to carry party membership cards. People used to carry two, one for the MDC and one for Zanu-PF. Depending on who controls the stronghold, they would produce the one necessary for safety and this is really unacceptable. In the farm areas violence has caused the problem of displacement of people all over the country.

As I was preparing my speech, I tried to confine myself to Zimbabwe, but at the same time I think it is important to note that whatever happens there, as all speakers have said, it is important that we also look at ourselves. Some people have been talking as though things are very clean here. If one goes to KwaZulu-Natal, there are no-go areas today. [Applause.] As we speak, the problem of displacement of people has still not been fully resolved today. If I go to Kwa-Nongoma to try to hold a rally, I will either be killed or shot. That is the fact of the matter. [Applause.] We really have a responsibility to get rid of the problem that face us, the things that are happening in some African countries. Those are challenges that face all of us. [Interjections.]

I must, at the same time, indicate to hon members that it was not true that violence was widespread. Most observers felt welcome in all provinces, and what is happening in Zimbabwe is not right for the people of Zimbabwe. We have a responsibility to ensure that we help Zimbabweans to rid themselves of all the problems and challenges facing them.

Zimbabwe is our neighbour, it is a member of SADC. Stability, peace and sustainable economic development are of paramount importance. It is in our national interest to ensure that Zimbabweans succeed in their quest for national unity and reconciliation, and in addressing their problems. I know some members on my left are howling because they have no interest at all in Zimbabwe. For some of them their interests lie in Europe, not in Africa. That is unfortunate. [Applause.] It was interesting to note that most people and the media tended to take Zimbabwe as Harare: that Zimbabwe starts and ends in Harare. It is worth noting that Harare is only in one of the provinces and is where there was a tripartite election. Harare is where we saw and witnessed those very long queues. One of the reasons for that, which was never reported for whatever reason in our newspapers and on TV, is that there was a tripartite vote, which meant that people had to vote for the president, vote for the mayor and vote for the ward councillor. [Interjections.]

I must also point out that in nine of the provinces voting proceeded with very few problems. In fact, the voting was finished by lunchtime on Sunday. Voting took one and a half days - in nine provinces. If one looks at the registration of voters, a big part of the registration process took place in all those provinces compared to Harare. And that is a fact. That is not something I sucked from my thumb. We have to look at Zimbabwe in the total context when we judge whether the elections went the way we feel would be credible, and so on. We must note that as South Africans we have a responsibility to contribute and assist countries to move towards good governance and adherence to the rule of law. The creation of this environment is going to be a process. I think we have witnessed that this is not only a problem in Africa. There is the problematic Israel/Palestine situation, the Afghanistan situation and the Bosnian situation. There are processes that have been put in place, in which all parties are involved in ensuring that there is development, stability, good governance and the rule of law in those areas.

I think we also have that responsibility. We should not short-change ourselves by thinking that just because we are Africans it will just be a case of a blue and a red button which one just presses and things happen. Things are a process and one has to be part of that process and engage that process in order to ensure that one moves towards a situation in which there is development, peace, sustainable economic growth and development, and in which, at the end of the day, we as South Africans, as SADC and as Africans - all of us - can benefit in terms of the wellbeing of our people. [Applause.]

Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. During the previous speaker’s input, first Mr McIntosh referred to the hon Mr Scott as a puppet and thereafter the hon Mr Davidson referred to Mr Scott as a racist. I submit that both of those remarks are unparliamentary and that both members should withdraw them.

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, I heard the word ``puppet’’ but I could not identify the person. Mr McIntosh, it has been alleged that you said those words. If you used them, would you please withdraw them.

Mr G B D McINTOSH: Madam Speaker, I said the word ``puppet’’. I would like a ruling from you as to whether it is unparliamentary …

The SPEAKER: It is unparliamentary.

Mr G B D McINTOSH: … because to me it is a very curious word. It is a good, healthy, Anglo-Saxon word. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order! [Interjections.] It has previously been held to be unparliamentary. So accordingly, I am ruling it unparliamentary.

Mr G B D McINTOSH: Madam Speaker, under those circumstances I withdraw that the member was a puppet. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Thank you.

Mr G Q M DOIDGE: Madam Speaker, I would like to apologise to Mr Davidson. It has been drawn to my attention that in fact he did not utter the word ``racist’’. That word was in fact also uttered by Mr McIntosh, if he could withdraw that word as well.

Mr G B D McINTOSH: Madam Speaker, I did not call him a racist. I asked him a question. I said: ``Are you a racist?’’ I am happy to withdraw it. The SPEAKER: Thank you very much, hon member. [Interjections.] Order! Hon members, please let us now proceed with this debate.

Mr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD: Madam Speaker, it is really a pity that the hon Mr Ndou chose to drag this debate into a black and white confrontation. [Interjections.] I will not fall into the same trap.

The seriousness with which South Africa regards the rights of the individual and the human dignity of the people of this country is reflected in the fact that a special day, Human Rights Day, is set aside to acknowledge the rights of every individual, and to acknowledge the inhumane sufferings of many people of this country during the days of apartheid and the struggle for freedom.

Many people in this House have experienced such suffering, and are still suffering from the wounds that were inflicted on them, both physically and mentally, by the protectors of the government. Some of us have only heard of the gruesome encounters with these torturers, who saw it as their rightful duty to protect the apartheid regime against the ``total onslaught’’, and we can never condone those actions.

The end to this very long, dark period in the history of South Africa did not come through more violence and intimidation. No, the rebuilding of this country started with an election in 1994 that indicated to the world that peace and stability could be obtained through a legitimate process that was acceptable to all the people of South Africa. South Africa has since grown into the leader of Africa, the big brother, the one to give guidance to the rest.

Together with these factors, and the knowledge that the world was once again looking to South Africa, the Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved, on 14 February 2002:

That the House -

(1) notes that presidential elections are due to take place in Zimbabwe from 9 to 10 March 2002; and

(2) resolves -

   (a)  to send a multiparty parliamentary delegation to  observe  these
       elections;


   (b)  that the terms of reference of the delegation are to observe the
       election campaign in the run-up to the election, the casting  of
       votes during the elections  and  subsequently  the  counting  of
       votes; and


   (c)  that the delegation must, after the completion of  its  mission,
       present a full report to the House.

This resolution served as the mandate of the South African Parliamentary Observer Mission.

The seriousness and the enormity of the challenge to us as a parliamentary observer team was contained in a motion without notice that was agreed to in this House on 21 February, and it went as follows:

The Chief Whip of the Majority Party moved without notice: That the House -

(1) notes that the multiparty parliamentary observer team will leave for Zimbabwe tomorrow to observe the Zimbabwean presidential elections;

(2) believes that it is in the interests, not only of Zimbabwe, but of all the people in the Southern African region that the people of Zimbabwe should have the opportunity to elect their president in an atmosphere free from violence and intimidation and through an electoral process that is genuinely free and fair;

(3) also notes the undertaking made by the government of Zimbabwe at the SADC extraordinary summit on 14 January 2002 in Blantyre, Malawi, as contained in the final SADC communiqué on the Zimbabwean presidential elections;

(4) believes that the adherence to the SADC undertaking should form part of the basis on which the freeness and fairness of these elections is determined;

(5) further notes -

   (a)  the concern expressed by  the  SADC  summit  over  the  previous
       statement made by the Zimbabwean army  on  the  outcome  of  the
       election and the summit's urging the government of  Zimbabwe  to
       ensure  that,  in  accordance  with  the  multiparty   political
       dispensation prevalent in SADC, political  statements  are  made
       not by the military, but by political leaders; and


   (b)  that this concern is consistent with the OAU position  regarding
       the conduct of the military in political affairs; and

(6) further believes that -

   (a)  it is in the interests of both the people of  Zimbabwe  and  the
       people of South Africa that  the  parliamentary  delegation,  in
       conjunction with other delegations from South Africa,  undertake
       their task with responsibility, impartiality and integrity; and


   (b)  the presence of the multiparty parliamentary  observer  team  in
       Zimbabwe will make a constructive contribution towards  ensuring
       that the election process is free and fair.

This was agreed to in this House.

The New NP believes that it was against this backdrop that the South African parliamentary observer mission had to operate and had to, firstly, assess whether conditions existed for the conduct of an election that demonstrated the general will of the Zimbabwean people; secondly, whether Zimbabwean voters had sufficient access to cast their votes in secret; and thirdly, whether the election was conducted within the Zimbabwean constitution and the electoral legislative framework.

I believe that the observer mission has stuck to its task with vigour and conducted itself in an exemplary manner under the capable and inspiring leadership of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, for which I would like to thank her personally. I think she did a tremendous job. [Applause.]

We, in the New NP, are satisfied that this report tabled before Parliament today is a comprehensive report that covers all the necessary aspects that could have influenced the various stages and processes of the election. The contents of the report indicate that there were at least 12 core areas that had a negative impact on various stages of the elections, whereas only three areas impacted positively on the election.

In the light of the above, the New NP cannot endorse the outcome of the election in Zimbabwe as we believe that any decision to the contrary would be an endorsement for the future violation of human rights, as was experienced during the election where there was no regard for the constitution of Zimbabwe by the very persons and organs of state that should be the custodians of the instrument that ensures the freedom of speech, freedom of assembly and freedom of association and movement.

The New NP believes that the position that this Parliament will take on the outcome of the elections will not only determine the future of the African Renaissance or the progress of Nepad, but that it will also determine the attitude of future investors in South Africa and the region as a whole, as it will be an indication of our commitment to principles of democratic governance and the values enshrined in the African Renaissance and Nepad. Finally, I have a picture here of people who were taken by the police and kept for 24 hours. [Interjections.] I would like to ask whether it is possible that we, as a people who know the grief and suffering caused by disregard for human rights, could condone these acts of violence by the police against their own people, in which the people were locked up in a wire cage for more than 24 hours without food or water … [Interjections] … and in which men and women were locked up together without being charged. Would we allow that to happen in the new South Africa which has brought new hope to its people? I believe not. How could we then not speak out against such atrocities on our doorstep?

Mr D G MKONO: Madam Speaker, hon Minister, hon members, in our view, the report before us substantially captures the issues surrounding the recent presidential election in Zimbabwe.

In our opinion, the pillars of a democratic election include the following broad principles: respect for human rights and respect for the rule of law. Therefore we condemn the occurrence of violence and intimidation during the run-up to the election. Similarly, we cannot condone instances in which the above two principles appear to have been compromised. The time has come for international bodies such as SADC, the African Union and the United Nations to agree on a binding formula for free and fair elections, which must be observed by all member states.

In our own experience here in South Africa, we have encountered intimidation and lack of freedom of association and choice in the run-up to and during elections. However, in the national interest we have accepted the IEC verdict that those elections were free and fair.

The Zimbabwe election was not unique in being characterised by conflict and intimidation. We have to focus on the bottom line, which is that life must go on during the post-election period and that reconciliation must take precedence over party differences. It is vital that all Zimbabweans and all South African stakeholders now join hands to rebuild that country in order to avoid large-scale suffering and starvation amongst the people of Zimbabwe who must be our first and foremost concern.

Zimbabwe, as has indeed been the case with all of us on the continent, has emerged from a violent and undemocratic historical milieu. It is expected that democratisation is a process which cannot be achieved overnight, especially against the background of polarised communities and historical imbalances. We have to admit that none of us is perfect. Previous regimes handed down a legacy of violent suppression. If we recognise these facts, we must accept that we are going through a learning process.

The Zimbabwe elections were imperfect, just as our own elections have been imperfect. Let us give them the benefit of the doubt, but also encourage them to build for the future. In this context the UDM associates itself with the majority view of the report that the elections were a credible expression of the will of the people of Zimbabwe. [Applause.]

Ms N R NTSHULANA-BHENGU: Madam Speaker, hon members, my speech is going to focus on the legislative framework relating to the polling stations and their impact.

Registration, according to the laws of Zimbabwe, is an ongoing process which could continue even during polling days but a cut -off date is set in terms of the law for the purpose of the elections.

The voters’ roll was printed on 7 March 2002, but was not made available for inspection by the public, although part four, sections 17 and 18, of the Act provides for the voters’ roll to be kept by the constituency registrars and be open to inspection.

As at 27 January 2002, the number of registered voters as per voters’ roll inspected and declared by the registrar-general was 4,6 million. This number, compared with the 2000 general elections, showed an increase of 400 000.

On Wednesday 6 March, we met with the Registrar-General of Zimbabwe, who carries overall responsibility for administration of elections to find out whether the registration of voters and the compilation of the voters’ roll had taken place. The registrar was unable to indicate the total number of registered voters. This caused a great deal of confusion amongst the observers about their preparedness.

The existence of publicity around the final record after supplementary registration created more confusion which resulted in people neither appearing on the actual nor the supplementary roll.

Regarding the polling stations, it was reported by the registrar-general that there were 4 548 polling stations in the country. When compared to the 2000 general elections, for the 2002 presidential elections the number of polling stations were increased by 6 044. The increase in polling stations was greater in the rural areas as opposed to the urban areas. The rationale behind this was that people in the rural areas had to walk long distances before reaching the nearest polling station. We noted the distance between the polling stations and we discovered that there were no polling stations that were less than 10 km apart. We commend the government of Zimbabwe for taking into consideration the hardships of the people in the rural areas who would have had to walk long distances.

The Electoral Supervisory Commission announced that 121 computers were allocated to areas which had tripartite elections. These were going to be used to assist in the verification of names. However, our observation was that there were no computers in most of the polling stations in Harare. There were 140 command centres, one in each constituency.

Election staff and party agents in general were very receptive to observers. The efforts they made to ensure the continuance of the election process is commendable. We even watched the closing of a polling station in the Mashonaland central area. Our observation was that the tension between the MDC and Zanu-PF was rather exaggerated in the sense that when the polling station was closing, members of the MDC who were party agents and members of Zanu-PF were joking amongst themselves. They were sealing the boxes, joking and were going to observe and sit there throughout the night. So, the tension that has been reported in the media was rather exaggerated. There were isolated incidents reported of nonco-operative electoral staff.

I want to take this House back to what happened in the 1994 election in South Africa. In our situation, particularly in KwaZulu-Natal, election staff were killed on the day before the election. Some people were killed just for putting up voter education material and campaign material. Therefore, we cannot say that the incidents of violence that were experienced in Zimbabwe were anything compared to the violence that was experienced in South Africa during the 1994 elections. [Applause.]

Two days, 9 and 10 March 2002, were proclaimed voting days. The opening and closing times were set to be 07h00 and 19h00 respectively. On the first day of the polls, the opening was reported to have been on schedule at all centres. During midmorning, reports were received that in urban areas, especially in Harare, the process was very slow. Towards midafternoon anxiety amongst voters about the possibility of not voting, especially in Harare, was registered.

The office of the registrar-general considered extending the voting time beyond 19h00. At about 18h00 assurance was communicated to the effect that voters who were already in the queues would be attended to. It was reported that voting carried on until the early hours of the morning. It was also clear that there was uneven implementation of this undertaking by the registrar that people who were in queues would be allowed to vote.

On the second day, the voter turnout proved to be beyond expectation. By late afternoon, it was clear that another extension of the time had to be done. The MDC applied to the High Court for the extension of the voting period by a day. The court ruled in favour of the applicant. The following day, when the Minister of Justice and the registrar announced their intention to oppose the court ruling, a great deal of confusion and uncertainty was created.

On the third day, it was reported that not all polling stations were on schedule at the opening time. There was confusion as to whether the stations would open. Enquiries revealed that this was due to poor communication of the court’s decision to extend the voting period by one day.

While isolated cases of intimidation were reported, on the whole it was quiet and peaceful and the exercise of a secret ballot was observed. With regard to the impact of the legal and constitutional framework on the election, failure to announce polling stations and to make the voters’ roll a public document seven days before the polling day contravened the Electoral Act. The increase of the polling stations in the rural areas had a positive impact in addressing the problem of voters who had to walk long distances.

In conclusion, the people of Zimbabwe have spoken and that should be respected. South Africa cannot walk away from the people of Zimbabwe when they need us most to help them rebuild their country. They are our neighbours and whatever happens in Zimbabwe will affect South Africa. We need to show solidarity and assist Zimbabwe to achieve stability and economic prosperity. [Applause.]

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Madam Speaker, it is said that a people without a vision is a people without hope, and a people without hope is a people without a future and will always return to their past. Zimbabwe is a case in point.

The liberator has become the oppressor. In an attempt to remain in power, the Zanu-PF government has returned to violence and lawlessness by implementing draconian laws and executing gross human rights violations on the very people they are meant to protect and defend. I was in Zimbabwe, and definitely not on Mars. I did not have blinkers on, nor did I have a muzzle over my mouth. Working within the scope of the mandate given by Parliament, I am able to verify some of the incidents in which I was personally involved.

I can verify allegations of the brutal beating and torture of two MDC supporters trying to campaign in no-go areas such as Marondera. One had a broken collarbone and the other knife carvings of MDC on his back and on his face. They had been beaten severely. Both men were threatened with death if they should return to the area. They were moved to places of safety in Harare.

I witnessed an attack by 150 Zanu-PF youth supporters on one MDC supporter after a cancelled MDC rally in Marondera, in full view of eight policemen who, when approached by myself and Mr Van Jaarsveld to intervene, told us that they could not see. Their unwillingness and blatant disregard for performing their duty to defend and protect, fly in the face of justice. The legal constitutional framework gave the ruling party an unfair advantage and placed constraints on the voting process that led to hundreds of thousands of people being disenfranchised. President Mugabe, a contender in this election, was the coach, the player and the referee. He set the rules of the game, which clearly prejudiced the opposition in the run-up to the elections, as well as on the polling days. Section 158 of the Electoral Act gave President Mugabe extraordinary powers to validate any law or regulation that he deemed fit.

The flawed legal framework included the following - I will mention but a few: Firstly, militarising the election by broadening the provision in the Electoral Act with regard to public servants to include army personnel under the definition of a state employee; secondly, excluding civil society from being election monitors and drawing monitors from the ranks of the army, education and home affairs; thirdly, demanding proof of residency through presentation of water, electricity and rent bills, thus disenfranchising thousands of voters; and fourthly, drastically reducing the number of polling stations in the urban areas and significantly increasing rural mobile and other polling stations.

In the absence of a gazette, the unprocedural extension of voter registration was done without the knowledge of the opposition parties. President Mugabe invoked section 158 of the Electoral Act to legitimise this process. I was at the court ruling. The Public Order Security Act was struck down by the court but was reintroduced through section 158, and it included, firstly, refusal of permission by the police to hold public rallies. It became a criminal offence to criticise the President despite him being a candidate. However, he could criticise others. Secondly, failure to produce identity documents at rallies was a criminal offence. This clause reminded me of the dark days of apartheid where people were arrested for not carrying their ``dompasses’’.

Citing some of the aforementioned issues, and taking into cognisance the content of the South African Parliamentary Observer Mission’s report, I cannot, in all true conscience, pronounce the election in Zimbabwe free and fair. I would be betraying the people of Zimbabwe, South Africa and the continent of Africa if I did not accurately and factually report on the atrocities and irregularities witnessed, which can be verified by myself and my team, as part of what we witnessed and experienced over the 20 days we spent observing the 2002 presidential elections in Zimbabwe.

President Mugabe has validated the saying: ``Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely!’’ Remember, it is Zimbabwe today and South Africa tomorrow! Be warned! [Applause.]

Let me say something about the ink that was used in the voting process. I would say that it was flawed. Yes, there were claims that the ink was used to get unsuspecting voters not to vote. Passing the ultraviolet lights, some people were turned away and then arrested and locked up in a cage. It is disgusting! I cannot see how we as the South African Parliamentary Observer Mission actually validated this election as free and fair. The ACDP says it was unfree and unfair. [Applause.]

Dr C P MULDER: Mev die Speaker, hierdie verslag is die produk van ‘n kompromis. Gelukkig was die VF nie deel van hierdie kompromis nie en kan ek die VF se standpunt onbevange stel.

Die gevolgtrekking waartoe die ANC-meerderheid in die waarnemersmissie kom, is die volgende: It will therefore be appropriate to pronounce the 2002 Presidential elections as credible expression of the will of the people.'' Credible’’, nogal, ``mind you’’. Die ANC verklaar en bevind dus dat die uitslag ingevolge waarvan Mnr Mugabe as President herkies is, wel die wil van die kiesers van Zimbabwe weerspieël het in die proses. Wat ‘n belaglikheid!

Die kiesers van Suid-Afrika, die mense van Zimbabwe en die internasionale gemeenskap wil net een ding by President Mbeki en die Parlement van Suid- Afrika weet: ``Wat sê julle? Was die verkiesing vry en regverdig - ja of nee?’’ Enige mens met ‘n klein bietjie wysheid en integriteit weet mos dat daar geen vrye en regverdige verkiesing in Zimbabwe was nie. Daar is net te veel voorbeelde van vergrype deur die magshonger Mugabe-regime. Partye moes gelyke toegang tot die openbare media gehad het. Dit het nie gebeur nie en tog is die ANC tevrede dat die uitslag die wil van die mense weerspieël en by implikasie dus vry en regverdig was. Tydens my eerste toespraak in hierdie plek 14 jaar gelede het ek ‘n aanhaling gebruik van prof Busia van Ghana oor demokrasie en ek wil dit vandag weer aanhaal. Dit is vandag nog net so waar. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Dr C P MULDER: Madam Speaker, this report is the product of a compromise. Luckily the FF was not a party to this compromise, and I can impartially state the view of the FF.

The conclusion which the ANC majority in the observer mission reached was the following: It will therefore be appropriate to pronounce the 2002 Presidential elections as credible expression of the will of the people.'' Credible’’, mind you. The ANC therefore declared and found that the outcome, in terms of which Mr Mugabe was re-elected as President, did, in fact, reflect the will of the voters of Zimbabwe in this process. How ridiculous!

The South African voters, the people of Zimbabwe and the international community would only like to know one thing from President Mbeki and the Parliament of South Africa: ``What do you say? Was the election free and fair - yes or no?’’

Surely anyone with a little wisdom and integrity knows that there was no free and fair election in Zimbabwe. There are just too many examples of transgressions by the power-hungry Mugabe regime. Parties should have had equal access to the public media. That did not happen, and still the ANC is content that the outcome reflects the will of the people, and, therefore, by implication, was free and fair. During my first speech in this place 14 years ago I quoted Prof Busia of Ghana on democracy, and today I would again like to quote him. Today it still rings just as true:] A democracy in the last analysis depends on the character of individual men and women and the moral standards of the community. Rules governing elections may be made, freedoms may be provided in constitutions and Bills of Rights may be passed. They will make arbitrary acts easier to resist publicly, but they will not by themselves secure democracy. There are other rules, which are unwritten, such as honesty, integrity, restraint and respect for democratic procedures.

Those are the things that were absent in Zimbabwe and from the elections, and yet the ANC wants to pronounce them free and fair.

Daar kom ‘n tyd wanneer ‘n mens onbevange die waarheid moet praat. Wat is die ANC se probleem? Dit is baie waar wat ‘n bekende Amerikaanse senator onlangs oor die ANC oor televisie gesê het: Julle wil vriende wees met die vyand van die VSA en die Westerse wêreld, maar julle wil ook ons geld hê. Dit is die waarheid. Die ANC wil vriende wees met die Mugabes, die Castros, die Gaddafis, die Sadam Husseins, maar aan die ander kant wil hulle geld en hulp - en sommer baie daarvan - van die VSA en die Weste hê. [Tussenwerpsels.] In Afrikaans is daar ‘n bekende spreekwoord wat lui: ‘n Mens word aan jou vriende geken. Dit geld ook vir die ANC. Dit geld vir President Mbeki.

Hê ‘n slag die moed en doen wat gedoen behoort te word in die belang van Suid-Afrika, dan sal dit baie beter met ons gaan. Die VF bly by sy standpunt dat die verkiesing onregverdig en onvry was en die ANC is met dwaashede besig. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[There comes a time when one must speak the truth with an open mind. What is the ANC’s problem? What a well-known American senator recently said about the ANC on television was very true: You want to be friends with the enemy of the USA and the Western world, but you also want our money. That is the truth. The ANC want to be friends with the Mugabes, the Castros, the Gaddafis, the Sadam Husseins, but on the other hand they want money and aid

• and lots of it - from the USA and the West. [Interjections.] In Afrikaans there is a well-known saying to the effect that: one is known by the company one keeps. That also applies to the ANC. That applies to President Mbeki.

For once, have the courage to do what must be done in the interests of South Africa, then we will fare much better. The FF stands by its viewpoint that the election was unfair and not free, and the ANC is involved with foolishness. [Applause.]]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Madam Speaker and hon members, our observer mission was thrown into the deep end during the elections in Zimbabwe. The world looked forward to having the successful candidate doing it cleanly. The pre- election phase was characterised by torture, intimidation and harassment. The two contending parties, Zanu-PF and the MDC were slogging it out, but the MDC was on the receiving end most of the time.

That people tend to do right through fear, and not from a sense of justice, was realised in Zimbabwe when ordinary people we spoke to in Mashonaland West kept saying that they did not want to die nor did they wish their families to suffer, and therefore, they would vote Zanu-PF. This is one province that has clear no-go areas for other parties. Zanu-PF is the only party that operates freely in that province. The MDC voter education sessions had to be conducted under police guard, or even on a boat on the Lake Kariba, pretending to be a church group.

It is clear that the playing field was not even at all. The Daily News, the newspaper that biased towards the MDC, cannot be read freely and openly in Mashonaland West and some parts of Zimbabwe, especially in Chinoyi and Karoi, whereas the Herald, a Zanu-PF-inclined paper, is obtainable with ease.

While we agree that people need land, we also feel that land grab in the guise of Third Chimurenga, by the Mugabe regime, is one factor that alienates people of goodwill.

The conduct of the Zanu-PF youth, the militia or ``green bombers’’ as they are commonly known, as well as that of the war veterans, left much to be desired in as far as the preparation for the elections were concerned. They molested people who could not show proof of Zanu-PF membership with impunity. This affected even Zanu-PF members who were caught in the crossfire.

While we differ with the ANC on the conclusion to our report, we are in agreement that, in up to 13 points, the campaign period for the presidential election in Zimbabwe was fraught with contraventions of the country’s electoral Act. The result is that the elected candidate received 53% of the vote that was cast by 40% of the 60% of the voters who registered.

Some voters in the Harare and Chitungwisa could not vote because there was no time for them to do so because of the Zanu-PF-controlled electoral commission’s gerrymandering. They tampered with the voting stations to ensure that there were hurdles strewn on the opposition’s playing field.

While the MDC considered that they had a hand in violence by way of fighting back, Zanu-PF kept denying knowing about any violence that had been perpetrated. They denied any knowledge of militias or ``green bombers’’. To them war veterans are honourable and peaceful souls. The marauding youth are said to be doing community service.

It is unreasonable to compare the violence in KwaZulu-Natal in 1994 with that in Zimbabwe, when in the former instance it was a dawn of democracy, while Zimbabwe has been in their democracy for the past 22 years.

In the light of this and the issues raised even by other members of the delegation, on behalf of the UCDP, I have to make and pronounce that the presidential elections 2002 in Zimbabwe were neither free nor fair. [Applause.]

Mr E M SIGWELA: Madam Speaker, the Greek philosopher, Plato, who lived between 437 BC and 347 BC had a passion for establishing the truth about everything before giving it a description. He also believed that the only way we can make true statements about things we saw around us was when we know exactly what their basic structure was. He advanced the theory that it was only when we had analysed the various elements of an object and determined the interconnections between those elements that we could make a thesis about the objects, lest we be deceived by the outward appearances of objects and make false statements about them.

Even in the case of the elections in Zimbabwe and the whole social, political and economic climate surrounding them, we need to know something about that country. That will give us a magnifying glass with which to examine all the processes that have been associated with those elections.

The situation in Zimbabwe has its origin in the history of the people of that country, black, white, African and European. Before Cecil Rhodes and his British South Africa Company colonised Zimbabwe in 1889, the indigenous people of that country lived peacefully, managing their land and its fullness freely. Colonisation by the British South Africa Company in 1889 and subsequently directly by Britain in 1923 led to a significant change in social relations in Zimbabwe. [Interjections.]

The indigenous inhabitants of that country were driven off the land of their birth through the barrel of the gun. Their resistance under their kings was ultimately suppressed by the end of the 19th century, opening the way to rule of the people of that country as a colony. The people of Zimbabwe had by then lost authority over their land. They had lost freedom to govern themselves. They were governed by a few thousand Europeans in the name of Britain. Their country was named Rhodesia.

It stands to reason that no people on earth who respect themselves, including us, the indigenous people of South Africa, can allow themselves to be perpetually subjugated. We will not allow this to happen to ourselves. [Interjections.] It was in that context that the African National Congress of Zimbabwe was formed in 1934 to pick up the struggle, through the political mobilisation of the indigenous people of Zimbabwe, so that they could wage a political struggle to regain their country and their autonomy.

When the Zimbabwean ANC was banned in February 1959, its leadership, under Joshua Nkomo, formed the National Democratic Party in January 1960. When the NDP was banned in December 1961, Joshua Nkomo formed the Zimbabwe African People’s Union. This was also banned - in September 1962. I hope people are listening. [Interjections.] The intransigence and the lack of tolerance of African opinion!

In August 1963 Rev Ndabaningi Sithole and Robert Mugabe formed the Zimbabwe African National Union, after a split with Zapu. This political formation was also banned - in August 1964 - only four months after the Rhodesian Front, under Winston Field, had taken over the reins of government.

I am recalling this history of political formation in Zimbabwe to demonstrate the level of political repression that the people of that country experienced at the hands of white colonialists. The various white prime ministers, from Garfield Todd to Edgar Whitehead and from Winston Field to Ian Smith, were not prepared to recognise the African people of Zimbabwe as worthy of governing their own country and themselves.

The repression was even worse after Smith declared unilateral independence on 11 November 1965. There were no options left for the Zimbabwean people. They took up arms. The armed struggle is what resulted in the Lancaster talks and the Lancaster constitution which governs the country at the moment.

But this was already at a late stage. The damage had been done. The rigid black-white attitudes had developed and become entrenched. It is against this background that we must see the annoyance with Prime Minister Tony Blair’s open support for the MDC, which has actually heightened tension between Zanu-PF and the MDC.

It is in that light … [Interjections.] It is against that background also that the support received by the MDC from white farmers has led to the resharpening of the conflict in Zimbabwe. It is that background that brought the land question to the centre stage of elections in Zimbabwe. [Interjections.] But now that the people of Zimbabwe have chosen their president, the world should not divide them any further, but should assist them, through negotiations, to resolve their conflicts.

As for this nonsense that we go along with the Castros, the Mugabes, etc, they are our friends. Yes, they are our comrades, comrades in arms. We have been with them in the trenches, fighting against a similar system to that which Mugabe defeated in Zimbabwe in 1979. [Interjections.]

We also want to put the record straight. We never said that the elections in Zimbabwe were free and fair. [Interjections.] We said they produced a credible result. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, are you rising on a point of order?

Dr C P MULDER: Madam Speaker, no, it is not a point of order. I would like to ask the hon member a very easy question. [Interjections.] He still has some time left.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Unfortunately his time has expired.

Dr C P MULDER: His time has expired?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Unfortunately, yes.

Dr C P MULDER: That is a big pity.

Mrs P DE LILLE: Madam Speaker, I also want to commend the leader of the delegation, the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, for the leadership that she has shown in this difficult task. I must also put on record that she was the only leader of an observer mission in Zimbabwe that did not prejudge the situation - the only leader. [Applause.] The South African Government observer mission that prejudged the elections has compromised South Africa. It put us, as observers in the country, under a tremendous threat. We were called liars at some of the polls, because of the statement by the South African Government observer mission.

An HON MEMBER: By who?

Mrs P DE LILE: By the voters of Zimbabwe. The hon member should have gone to Zimbabwe.

I just want to say that a lot has been said about the election process. The challenge now is for South Africa, the region, and Africa, to wait on the people of Zimbabwe to give leadership and to find a solutions. Our role must be to complement whatever the people of Zimbabwe decided as a way of resolving the problem in their country.

As a mechanism for healing the wounds of the past in this country, the PAC proposes a process of mediation that can help the people and parties to come together. As South Africans, we now need to support any request by Zimbabwe to rebuild the country and the nation.

As observers, we did not go to Zimbabwe in solidarity with any political party, but in solidarity with the people of Zimbabwe. And our mandate was very clear. We needed to be impartial and to be independent. Therefore, It is crucial that we are brutally honest with ourselves when making any pronouncement. As an observer, I base my judgment on the legal framework that placed several constraints on the electoral process, and that led to the disenfranchisement of many of the voters - a list of all those issues are attached to our report.

But most painful to me was a piece of legislation, section 158, dating back to the old Smith regime era, that gave the president of Zimbabwe extraordinary powers to make laws, to strike down court rulings and to make regulations. No parliament anywhere in the world can delegate its powers to make laws to anybody, including the president. It was fatally flawed for the Zimbabwean government to reduce the elections to a string of court orders. The court actually stepped in and saved the elections.

Finally, because of the constraints placed by the legal system on the elections, I cannot, if I must be honest with myself, say that the elections were free and fair. I just want to appeal to all of us in our country to stand behind the people of Zimbabwe and give them support. They need us now, more than ever before. Let us put the elections behind us and look at the future. [Applause.]

Dr A I VAN NIEKERK: Madam Speaker, the fact that 3,1 million people voted in Zimbabwe is used as the main reason to come to a conclusion that the election result represents the majority will of the people of Zimbabwe.

However, if we take into account the findings of the report by the members of this Parliament, of the intimidating actions throughout the campaign, and the constant interference of the ruling party and their supporters, which favoured their presidential candidate, and the fact that a large number of opposition supporters and actions were disrupted, the conclusion can, justly, be questioned.

Die hele verslag wemel van berigte oor ongerymdhede, intimidasie, ontwrigting, benadeling van opposisiepartye en van hul verkiesingsveldtog. Daar is geweld, aanranding en doodeenvoudige moedswilligheid van die regerende party. Hoe die meerderheidsparty in Suid-Afrika se waarnemers tot die gevolgtrekking kan kom dat die wil van die mense onder sulke verkiesingstoestande geseëvier het, gaan my verstand te bowe. Miskien lê die antwoord vir hierdie onverstaanbare besluit in een van die opmerkings wat in die aanhangsel van die verslag gemaak is, naamlik:

It’s an offence …

Ingevolbge die Public Order Security Act -

… to criticise the President, despite him being a candidate, but he may criticise other candidates.

Dit lyk vir my of die regerende party in Suid-Afrika in sy oordeel oor die verkiesingsuitslag in Zimbabwe aan dieselfde vooroordeelsiekte as die Zimbabwiese meerderheidsparty ly. Die FA steun dus nie die meerderheidsverslag nie. Ons vind die gebeure in Zimbabwe ‘n terugslag vir demokrasie en vir die ontwikkeling van Afrika. Die wyse waarop hierdie hele aangeleentheid deur die Suid-Afrikaanse Regering gehanteer is, strek Suid- Afrika nie tot eer nie. Ongelukkig moet ek dit sê, maar president Mbeki het weer eens ‘n diplomatieke toets gedop. Hy het nie geslaag om vir Suid- Afrika die staatmanskap te wys wat ons kan lei in ‘n nuwe Afrika- ontwikkeling nie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The entire report bristles with reports of irregularities, intimidation, disruption, and prejudice with regard to opposition parties and their election campaign. There is violence, assault and wilfulness pure and simple on the part of the governing party. How the observers of the majority party in South Africa could come to the conclusion that the will of the people prevailed under election conditions such as these is beyond me. Perhaps the answer to this incomprehensible decision lies in one of the remarks made in the annexure of the report, namely:

It’s an offence …

… According to the Public Order Security Act -

… to criticise the President, despite him being a candidate, but he may criticise other candidates.

It seems to me as if the governing party in South Africa, considering the election result in Zimbabwe, suffers from the same illness of prejudice as the Zimbabwean majority party. Therefore the FA does not support the majority report. We find that the events in Zimbabwe were a setback to democracy and to the development of Africa. The way in which this entire matter was handled by the South African Government is not to South Africa’s credit. Unfortunately I have to say it, but President Mbeki once again failed a diplomatic test. He did not succeed in showing South Africa the statesmanship which can lead us in a new African development. [Applause.]]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, they say if one is a politician one has to have extra-large shoulders, in order to take criticism in one’s stride.

A lot of controversy surrounds the Zimbabwean election. We see a split, in the views of the South African observers and the Deputy President about the election. It has been reported that the hon the Deputy President viewed the election as legitimate, valid, free and fair, while some observers viewed it as legitimate, but admit that it has not been free and fair. Now, what puzzles the MF is not only the split in opinion, but also the fact that if the election is regarded as not having been free and fair, how it could be legitimate?

Owing to the concerns around the situation in Zimbabwe earlier in the month, which have had major repercussions, and noting the various negative receptions of the results of the Zimbabwean election globally and the position of South Africa in Nepad in terms of resolutions, the MF feels that there are many issues which need to be addressed immediately, ie reconciliation, the economic situation, the land invasions, the return to rule of law, and how the widely accepted view of South Africa being an honest broker will be affected, and what we can do to contribute positively.

The MF notes the complexity of the situation and seeks the meeting of minds to institute a strategised plan of action in handling this predicament. We call for national unity, and that both parties come together to create political stability and put people first - Batho Pele. We as South Africans have a responsibility to assist Zimbabwe as our neighbouring country in the best way we can.

The MF wishes to thank the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, who so ably led the observer delegation to and from Zimbabwe. [Applause.]

Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Madam Speaker, the Zimbabwe elections have come and gone. What remains is our interpretation of the outcome. Reports that emanate from the OAU, SADC ministers and our own observer mission have declared the election legitimate. Azapo is convinced that these reports by African leaders, not by any other person, reflect the truth of what transpired during the elections, and we accept that. [Applause.]

Despite these authentic reports crafted by black Africans who have the interests of the continent and those of Zimbabwe at heart, non-Africans have condemned these elections. Azapo is not surprised. [Interjections.] We are not surprised. History has shown that former colonisers are often not the best champions and interpreters of events in Africa … [Applause] … and elsewhere where they were defeated in wars of liberation.

When the American people elected their president with a 33% turnout and Gore cried foul, the European Union never declared the elections not free and fair. [Applause.]

What is surprising to Azapo is that the European Union observer mission left Zimbabwe before the election, and yet they would like us to believe that their declaration is authentic, as opposed to our own people’s declaration. [Applause.] It is obvious to Azapo that they left Zimbabwe early … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Nefolovhodwe, will you take a question? [Interjections.]

Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: No, Madam Speaker, I do not want to take a question.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Please take your seat, hon Van der Merwe. [Interjections.] Order!

Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: It is obvious to Azapo that they left the country because they saw that they would not be able to declare the elections as not being free and fair. So they left, having already made up their minds. [Interjections.]

The Zimbabwe elections were even extended to allow voters to exercise their democratic rights. They did so, and it is reported that the three days on which they cast their votes were peaceful.

The people of Zimbabwe have spoken, and non-Zimbabweans should simply respect that. Gone are the days when the opinions of the white world were paramount. [Applause.]

Dr C P MULDER: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Yes, hon Mulder, what is your point of order?

Dr C P MULDER: Madam Speaker, the hon member who just spoke concluded his speech by making a racist statement. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Go on, hon member. [Interjections.] Speak, hon member, I am listening.

Dr C P MULDER: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The hon member concluded his speech by saying the days are over when white opinion was of any value. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order, hon members! Please allow the member to make his point.

Dr C P MULDER: Madam Speaker, as an African I would like you to make a ruling on that racist remark.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon member, I listened to the hon member. He said: Gone are the days when the opinions of the white world are paramount.'' [Interjections.] He saidthe white world’’. [Interjections.] I do not believe that that statement necessarily referred to members of this House. [Interjections.] Therefore I rule that that statement was not necessarily racist. [Applause.]

Mr W J SEREMANE: Madam Speaker, history and our own experience of having struggled for a nonracial, democratic society has placed enormous responsibilities and tasks on the shoulders of South Africa.

We are endowed with a Constitution that we can be proud of and that should continue to guide our actions in order to uphold sacred constitutional imperatives, such as the freedom of belief, the freedom of association and the freedom of expression, including tenets such as the rule of law and allowing, periodically, for free and fair elections. The creation, nurturing and sustaining of a nonracial human rights environment are not matters to be taken lightly.

Zimbabwe is indeed our neighbour. Zimbabwe is a fellow member of the SADC fraternity. Given the various observer missions which have been to Zimbabwe to observe the presidential elections, one would expect that our South African parliamentary observer mission would live up to the challenging demand to pronounce not only a correct report of their findings, but to take on also the responsibilities of a vanguard and torchbearer for democracy, justice and the protection of human rights.

Zimbabwe has gone to the polls. The very election process was under the spotlight of many nations the world over. Much has been reported about the tension, strife and pain that have befallen the citizens of Zimbabwe.

Could there have been a free and fair election with, firstly, the amount of violence and intimidation that took place over a period of time long before the actual polling day, despite the belated and seemingly calm atmosphere that prevailed a few days before polling day; secondly, with the delayed and belated signing of a code of conduct by some of the contestants exactly one day before the polling day; thirdly, with the removal of voters from the voters’ roll for spurious and dubious reasons, including the manipulation of the location of polling stations, that is, decreasing the number in urban areas and increasing them in rural areas; fourthly, with the state monopoly and use of public media as a propaganda tool to the advantage of the government, totally disadvantaging the opposition candidates; and, fifthly, with the intensive hate speech and strong racist stereotyping of opponents by Zanu-PF?

With these few mentioned malpractices, amongst many, the Zimbabwean presidential elections cannot be said to have been free and fair. Any pronouncement contrary to recognising these factors, which impeded a free and fair election process, will sound like a fraternal and sentimental closing of ranks and will be totally or deliberately oblivious to the undemocratic practices that definitely impeded the process of a free and fair election.

Fraternal cover-ups will only serve to undermine the cause of democracy and the hard-won freedoms of the people of Zimbabwe. South Africa, whilst being passionate about African unity and the betterment of the welfare of all people, and rightly so, cannot afford to be ambivalent on matters that demand that the state protect its citizens and uphold each citizen’s rights.

We have to admonish even our own brothers and sisters when they rule like despots and anarchists, when they merely mouth democratic rhetoric, but act contrary to what we ourselves hold dear. The presidential elections in Zimbabwe, in fairness to all, were very unfree and very unfair. [Applause.]

Mr L T LANDERS: Madam Speaker, hon Deputy President, it was a privilege and an honour to have been a member of the South African parliamentary observer mission to Zimbabwe. It was also a privilege and an honour to have been led by the hon Chief Whip of the ANC, Comrade Mapisa-Nqakula. We thank her and commend her for her leadership.

According to the Zimbabwean Council of Churches, Zimbabwe is not an industrialised country. Essentially, therefore, the violence taking place in Zimbabwe emanates from the land issue, which was not adequately resolved at the Lancaster House talks. Other than the land, there is no system in Zimbabwe which provides a livelihood for the people.

It must also be noted for the record that according to the Commercial Farmers’ Union of Zimbabwe, white farmers collectively own 8,5 million hectares of farm land, which comprise some of the best farm land in Zimbabwe.

Mr G B D McINTOSH: Luwellyn, you are not well informed.

Mr L T LANDERS: Well, you should be better informed. You are a Rhodesian. [Laughter.]

Any discussion or debate on Zimbabwe would be skewed or imbalanced without this background. It is also against this background that I wish to address this House …

Mr G B D McINTOSH: Madam Speaker, the hon Minister or Deputy Minister … No, he is not a Deputy Minister any more, is he? That was in the previous regime. [Interjections.] The hon member Landers has just said that I would know what the position of the land question is because I am a Rhodesian. [Interjections.] I am not a Rhodesian, and I have never had any connection to Rhodesia. I believe he used that as an insult. [Interjections.] Madam Speaker, I would like a ruling from you on that and ask that he withdraw that statement. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Landers, you referred to the hon member as a Rhodesian. I am not sure what that means. He regards that as an insult. [Interjections.] Hon member, I do not know where you get your facts from. Mr McIntosh has requested that you withdraw that statement because he says he is not a Rhodesian. I would really like you to do so.

Mr L T LANDERS: Madam Speaker, the hon Graham McIntosh is not a Rhodesian. [Laughter.]

It is against this background that I wish to address the House on the legislative and constitutional framework within which the Zimbabwean elections were held. There are four pieces of legislation which determine how elections in Zimbabwe are run. These are, firstly, the constitution of Zimbabwe, which is the constitution agreed to in terms of the Lancaster House Agreement and which has subsequently undergone several amendments; secondly, the Electoral Act; thirdly, the General Laws Amendment Act, which came into operation on 4 February 2002; and the Public Order and Security Act.

I must mention that two of South Africa’s esteemed judges conducted an audit of the constitutional and legal framework of Zimbabwe’s laws as they related to the electoral process. As part of their mandate, they engaged members of the Zimbabwean Bench, the judiciary, the Zimbabwean prosecuting authority and senior police officials on these laws. The expected report on their audit should make interesting reading.

At the outset, it must be stated that the Zimbabwean electoral system grants considerable power and discretion to the president, including, and in particular, the power to change electoral law by issuing what is referred to, in Zimbabwe, as a statutory instrument, which we normally refer to as a proclamation.

In terms of the General Laws Amendment Act, large numbers of Zimbabweans who would have been outside the country for more than 12 months were taken off the voters’ roll and disenfranchised. This matter was taken to the supreme court, which duly struck down this provision.

A few days before election day, President Mugabe issued a statutory instrument invoking section 158 of the Electoral Act which regularised the appointment of civil servants as monitors as opposed to members of civil society.

In terms of the Public Order and Security Act, application must be made to the police in order that political parties or candidates may hold rallies, public meetings, etc. According to the Minister of Justice of Zimbabwe, the number of refusals of such applicants was negligible. [Interjections.] According to the opposition, the true figure is in the region of 60 refusals during the election period.

Now, enshrined in the Zimbabwean constitution in terms of section 21, is the right to freedom of assembly and association. The provision in the Public Order and Security Act requiring permission from the police to hold election rallies must be measured against section 21 of the Zimbabwean constitution. In other words, according to our two esteemed judges, the only way to make a judgment as to whether the right to freedom of assembly and association may have been trumped or infringed upon by the Public Order and Security Act would be to ascertain exactly how many such applications were indeed refused.

Whilst we were not in the position to make this verification, it is important that we raise our serious concerns about this particular provision. In my view, one of the most draconian pieces of legislation introduced as part of Zimbabwe’s electoral laws is section 158 of the Electoral Act. Section 158 of the Electoral Act goes as follows, and I quote:

Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act …

[Interjections.] Yes, the hon member knows everything. I quote as follows:

Notwithstanding any other provision of this Act, but subject to subsection 2, the president may make such statutory instruments as he considers necessary or desirable to ensure that any election is properly and efficiently conducted and to deal with any matter or situation connected with, arising out of or resulting from the election.

The effect of this provision is that the president is empowered to legalise any electoral fraud or irregularity. Indeed, this provision empowers the president to overturn decisions and rulings of the Zimbabwean courts.

I am aware of four such instances in which President Mugabe invoked section 158 in order to overturn a decision of the Zimbabwean high court and even the supreme court. I am not sure of my facts, but there may have been 10 such instances. It would be an abrogation of our duty to remain silent about the draconian provisions of this clause. Indeed, if there is anything about the Zimbabwean electoral process that must be taken up at the appropriate level, then it has to be section 158 of the Electoral Act.

Three million Zimbabwean voters representing 55% of the electorate, more than in any election held in Zimbabbwe since 1980, duly had an opportunity to cast their votes. We in the ANC accept the outcome of this election. It is time now for Zimbabweans to move forward. It is time for Zimbabweans to reach out to one another in a spirit of national unity and reconciliation. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! As I call on the next speaker, I would like to recognise the former hon member and now His Excellency Jannie Momberg, who is sitting in the gallery. [Applause.]

Mnr A J BOTHA: Mev die Speaker, mnr Agrippa Madlela, die leier van ZAPU in Zimbabwe, het ons versoek om asseblief ons oë oop te hou, en dan aan die wêreld die waarheid te vertel van dít wat ons gesien het. Hy het ons, as Afrikane, gesmeek om nie weer eens die mense van Zimbabwe in die steek te laat nie. Die DA, tesame met die meeste lede van die opposisie wat die verkiesing in Zimbabwe namens die Parlement gaan waarneem het, dra ons gevolgtrekking op aan Mr Madlela, en al die martelare wat deur die owerheid in Zimbabwe getraumatiseer en gemarginaliseer is.

Die uitstaande kenmerk van Zimbabwe die afgelope twee jaar is ontkiesering. Daardie bevolking is op ‘n ongekende skaal ontkieser deur intimidasie, geweld en moord. Hulle is ontkieser deur wetgewende en administratiewe misbruik. Zanu-PF, onder die leiding van president Mugabe, het soos roofdiere in die nag jag gemaak op ‘n weerlose bevolking. Die natuurlike naggeluide van die bos is vervang met die angs- en pynkrete van martelare wie se verslae ons bestudeer het, en wie se wonde ons waargeneem het. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr A J BOTHA: Madam Speaker, Mr Agrippa Madlela, the leader of ZAPU in Zimbabwe, has requested us please to keep our eyes open and then to tell the world the truth about what we have seen. He begged us, as Africans, not to let the people of Zimbabwe down once again. The DA, as well as most leaders of the opposition, who went to observe the election in Zimbabwe on behalf of Parliament dedicate our conclusions to Mr Mandela and all the martyrs who have been traumatised and marginalised by those in authority in Zimbabwe.

The most noticeable characteristic of Zimbabwe over the past two years has been disenfranchisement. That population has been disenfranchised on an unparalleled scale by means of intimidation, violence and murder. They have been disenfranchised by legislative and administrative abuse. Zanu-PF, under the leadership of President Mugabe, preyed upon a defenceless population like predators in the night. The natural sounds of the night in the bush were replaced by the cries of anguish and pain of martyrs whose reports we have studied, and whose wounds we have observed.]

The reign of terror visited upon the majority by a minority gang was enabled by Zanu-PF subjugating the police force to pseudo war veterans, who went about destroying human lives as well as the cornerstone of the Zimbabwean economy. The present food shortages and looming famine are a direct result of the destructive stupidity of this anarchy and has nothing to do with the present drought, severe as it is. The effects of the drought will only become evident when this season’s crop is harvested.

Even state-employed youth gangs order the police about. On top of this, it is quite clear that elements in the police join in the fray. Tens of thousands of farmworkers have been displaced together with their employers by these war vets and could not vote in their constituencies. What the effect of torture on voter choice was, we can only speculate on and never calculate accurately. What is certain, however, is that the normalisation of civil society will take generations.

The voters’ rolls, which only surfaced on the day of the election, were prostituted by legislative attempts and administrative malpractice, especially during the last two months before the election. Our own judiciary calculates that up to 3 million voters could have been disenfranchised by this gerrymandering. This exactly matches the number that actually managed to vote.

The DA rejects this electoral charade, as we reject the ANC’s craven claim that 3 million ballots are sufficient proof that the people have spoken. Our mission went to Zimbabwe to serve the people of this country and of Zimbabwe. We hope that in a very small way we did serve the people of Zimbabwe, whose courage and fortitude defy belief. We did not go there to enable diplomatic manoeuvring by statesmen.

History will not be kind to the ANC in this affair. Some of the ANC’s debaters today appear to believe that they observed the 1980 liberation election. Some appear to believe that Tony Blair was a candidate in this election, hellbent on recolonising our neighbour. [Interjections.]

Some marvel at the apparent calm and normality that they observed. This is tantamount to claiming that the apparent calm and normality in South Africa during the worst excesses of the apartheid era disproved the darkness of those days. Also, this could be compared with our Cabinet Ministers who disputed rape statistics because they observed no incidences of rape while standing on the street corner for more than 26 seconds.

I would like to thank the mission leader for the way that she conducted the mission in Zimbabwe. She did very well and she led us very well. I am very sorry about her contribution in this debate today. [Applause.]

Mr N H MASITHELA: Madam Speaker, I would to thank the Chief Whip for the contribution she made yesterday. If she was not there, this team would have been polarised, as happened in Zimbabwe. We thank her very much for what she did yesterday. [Applause.]

The mission’s aim was not to judge Zimbabwean government policy nor to judge the legal framework in Zimbabwe, but to observe the presidential and mayorial elections in Zimbabwe.

In regard to this mission, I think we diligently accomplished our mission. One of the speakers alluded to that fact. It was the hon Patricia de Lille. In fact, not only the leader of the mission, but the entire South African parliamentary observer team excellently observed the elections in Zimbabwe and did so impartially. We moved from this area, having different views and opinions, but there is no way that we could come back and report on what we have observed against the background of our political beliefs, as the DP is doing. [Interjections.] It is very unfortunate that two or three days before we went to Zimbabwe, some of the media people picked on the candidate for president in Zimbabwe, let alone hon member Mr Tony Leon, who did that before we left this country! [Interjections.]

The reality of the situation is that we went there to observe the election without fear. What I saw there was that the media in Zimbabwe, including our South African electronic media, are highly polarised. Our public media were covering the election in Zimbabwe as if they were purporting a particular candidate to win the elections. It is a problem. It is a thing that all of us, as members of Parliament, and as South Africans have to correct.

The unfortunate situation is that that situation caused tension in Zimbabwe. It is important that South Africans, international communities, and the media, in particular, understand that Zimbabweans need a healing period. It is important for South Africans to understand that we do not need Zimbabwe the way it is today.

To declare the election free and fair is a political statement. [Interjections.] Before I do that, let me clarify that Africa is on her own, and that nobody will help her. Zimbabwe is part of the African continent. [Interjections.] Like one of the leaders of our African organisation, Azapo, the late Steven Bantu Biko, said: ``Black man, you are on your own.’’ The two are not mutually exclusive. Africa, you are on your own and nobody will assist you when you fall … [Interjections.] Let me, therefore, declare the elections … [Interjections.]

Let me give this House my opinion about the election. [Interjections.] Notwithstanding the problems that we were confronted with in Zimbabwe, I think the elections were relatively free and fair. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

Lastly, I think it is only fair to respond to what members have said. It is important, Mr Botha, to understand that the police did their job even though we were not quite satisfied with what they did. [Interjections.] I was with the hon Botha in Bulawayo. We both followed the police and spoke to them. They reported to us that they were monitoring the situation and that they had arrested some of the people who were causing problems in Zimbabwe. [Interjections.] He does not report about that because he does not like it.

It is very well for Mrs Southgate to pronounce that the ink was meant to prevent people from voting, particularly suspect people. But, how would one have known that this was a Zanu-PF member or an MDC member? [Applause.] No one could see that.

I think it is important to reflect on what Mr Inkosinathi said. [Interjections.] He had forgotten to quote what Prof Itumeleng Mosala said in the newspapers, but he remembered to quote Dr Brigalia Bam. It is important to balance the equation. [Interjections.]

In conclusion, I think it is important for South Africans, particularly those who do not agree, to see that Zimbabwe is a unitary state. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! On behalf of the Speaker and myself, we really thank the hon members of the mission, including the staff that accompanied them, for the work they did in Zimbabwe. We thank them specifically for the very painful process of putting the report together, which took them a whole day and half a night. We think that that is really commendable.

Of course, in the true spirit of South Africa, hon members expressed themselves and, where they differed, those differences were put very honestly. We believe that that is what democracy is all about and we would like to commend members for that. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Business suspended at 12:13 and resumed at 14:03. NOTICES OF MOTION

Rev A D GOOSEN: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that 25 interdenominational churches came under the banner of the Exodus Initiative to fight crime in Port Elizabeth;

(2) believes that this move by the religious fraternity is a fitting response to the call of Vukuzenzele by the President; and

(3) welcomes the initiative by these churches to fight crime and expresses appreciation for the overwhelmingly positive response to the Letsema Campaign by South Africans of all races and of all political and religious persuasions.

Mnr G A J GROBLER: Mev die Speaker, hiermee gee ek kennis: Dat die Huis -

(1) kennis neem dat -

   (a)  die ANC-beheerde Beaufort-Wes Munisipaliteit ernstige finansiële
       probleme  ondervind  as  gevolg  van  politieke   inmenging   en
       finansiële wanbestuur; en


   (b)  die persoonlike inmenging van die ANC-burgemeester in  die  dag-
       tot-dag bestuur van die munisipaliteit, en die  burgemeester  se
       miskenning van  die  verantwoordelikhede  en  funksies  van  die
       amptenare, die grootste faktor is wat tot die krisis gelei  het;
       en

(2) ‘n beroep doen op -

   (a)  die Minister vir Provinsiale en Plaaslike Regering in  die  Wes-
       Kaap om dringend aandag aan die krisis te gee; en


   (b)  die ANC om, ter wille van die  armstes  van  die  armes  in  die
       Karoo, ontslae te raak van hulle burgemeester. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr G A J GROBLER: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the ANC-controlled municipality of Beaufort West is experiencing
       serious financial problems as a result of political interference
       and financial mismanagement; and


   (b)  personal  interference  by  the  ANC  mayor  in  the  day-to-day
       management of the municipality, and the  mayor's  disregard  for
       the responsibilities and duties of the  officials  is  the  main
       factor that has led to the crisis; and

(2) appeals to -

   (a)  the Minister for Provincial and Local Government in the  Western
       Cape to pay urgent attention to the crisis; and


   (b)  the ANC, for the sake of the poorest of the poor in  the  Karoo,
       to get rid of their mayor.]

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) acknowledges the fact that the people of South Africa have had to endure the effects of no-go areas for a long time;

(2) realises that such no-go areas were not confined to KwaZulu-Natal as some individuals now tend to claim, thus distorting the facts for political expediency; and

(3) therefore calls upon members of the House to refrain from adopting a holier-than-thou attitude and to realise that such actions do not assist the process of reconciliation which is sine qua non for nation-building.

Ms M A MOLEBATSI: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that a pilot project has been initiated at a number of police stations throughout the country where victims of crime will receive a card containing the name and contact numbers of their investigating officer as well as the case number;

(2) recognises that this ground-breaking project aims at improving communication between police and victims of crime with regard to progress on their cases; and

(3) commends the SAPS for its innovative approach to increasing transparency, accountability and efficiency, and wishes the project every success.

Mnr J J NIEMANN: Mev die Speaker, ek gee kennis dat ek sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) met afgryse kennis neem van die sinlose moord op ‘n kommersiële boer naby Harare;

(2) van oordeel is dat -

   (a)  die sinlose  daad  die  direkte  gevolg  is  van  die  onwettige
       besetting van plase in Zimbabwe; en


   (b)  die oppergesag van die reg onmiddellik in Zimbabwe herstel  moet
       word; en   (3) daarvan oortuig is dat sodanige dade van geweld 'n afskrikmiddel  sal
   wees vir enige potensiële beleggers in die streek. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr J J NIEMANN: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move:

That the House -

(1) takes note with horror of the senseless murder of a commercial farmer near Harare;

(2) is of the opinion that -

   (a)  this senseless act is the  direct  consequence  of  the  illegal
       occupation of farms in Zimbabwe; and


   (b)  the supreme authority of the law should be restored in  Zimbabwe
       immediately; and

(3) is convinced that such acts of violence will serve as a deterrent for any potential investors in the region.]

Ms O N MNDENDE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) welcomes the reinstatement by Metrorail of 84 trains in Cape Town, which were stopped last November;

(2) notes the threat to this victory by Cosatu’s potential mass protest action if the rail needs of workers and the poor were not suitably addressed;

(3) further notes the budgetary constraints of Metrorail, which one way or another is passed on to hard-pressed commuters; and

(4) calls on all participants to continue in the spirit of yesterday’s negotiations to ensure amicable working solutions through bargaining in good faith between labour, business, the Unicity and the Government.

Mr M J MAHLANGU: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that projects have been approved to the value of over R30 million in terms of integrated service delivery, providing much- needed infrastructure for the Sekhukhukune district, for projects ranging from installation and repair of boreholes to the provision of sports facilities;

(2) believes that capital investment of this nature is an integral component of stimulating the economy and fighting poverty; and

(3) commends the ANC Government for its commitment to service delivery and infrastructure development that will in the short term create jobs and in the long term pay dividends in bettering the lives of our people.

Rev K R J MESHOE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) strongly condemns the brutal murder of another farmer, Terry Ford, by Zimbabwe’s war veterans, who dragged him from his home in the early hours of the morning, beat him senseless and placed him against a tree before executing him;

(2) notes that this barbaric deed justifies the call by Zimbabwe’s trade unions for a three-day national strike to protest the post- presidential election victimisation and harassment of the people of Zimbabwe; (3) notes with great concern that some political parties in this House have intimidated and prohibited their own members who were part of the observer mission from telling the truth about what they saw on the ground;

(4) welcomes the intention to reverse the verdict given by the leader of the South African observer mission to Zimbabwe who said, without consulting other observers, that the results were legitimate; and

(5) approves and applauds the courageous stand by the deputy leader of the mission, Dr Brigalia Bam, who strongly rejected the interim report by the leader of the mission.

Mrs M A SEECO: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the UCDP:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  trains are used by people who earn very low  salaries  and  that
       they also help reduce road accidents;


   (b)  the Government is doing all that is possible to ensure that rail
       infrastructure is upgraded; and


   (c)  such upgrading will be done at the Mabopane railway station -


       (i)    accepting  that  the  upgrading  will  provide  jobs   to
             deserving people in the area; and


       (ii)  while appreciating that the contract has been  awarded  to
             the South African Rail Commuter Corporation; and

(2) commends the Minister of Transport for making R15 million available for the upgrading of the station.

[Applause.]

Mr P J GOMOMO: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that Chief Nonkonyana, an ANC member of Parliament, was involved in a car accident over the weekend;

(2) further notes that he is currently in the intensive care unit in hospital; and

(3) wishes Chief Nonkonyana a speedy recovery.

Ms J A SEMPLE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes the DA’s commitment to looking after the interests of disempowered members of the fishing industry; (2) congratulates the DA on its success in having -

   (a)  South African pelagic fish resources reserved for South  African
       fishermen by getting Namibian fishing boats  excluded  from  our
       waters; and


   (b)  snoek removed from the line-fish sector,  thereby  protecting  a
       valuable protein source  and  an  essential  lifeline  of  local
       fishing communities;

(3) commends the Government for recognising the need to make these changes; and

(4) expresses the hope that the South African fishing community, of which the Western Cape forms the largest part, prospers as a result of these changes.

Mr J H SLABBERT: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP: That the House -

(1) appreciates the introduction of the Legal Spoornet i Train, the mobile legal assistance train, aimed at helping people who cannot afford and access legal advice;

(2) hopes that this legal empowerment exercise will benefit the communities of Newcastle, Howick, Durban, Isipingo, Tongaat and Stanger as the train spends six days in each of the said areas; and

(3) believes that this initiative serves to consolidate our hard-won democracy, thus contributing to attempts at building a free society.

Mr R P ZONDO: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that since the advent of democracy, the South African Police Service has adopted a creative and innovative approach to crime prevention and eradication;

(2) recognises that the integrated strategy to combat crime is proving correct and is beginning to pay dividends;

(3) welcomes the introduction of the Morphotouch device, a gadget the size of a cellphone, which at the touch of a suspect’s fingers will reveal whether a person has a criminal record; and

(4) commends Minister Tshwete and the SAPS for the introduction of this state-of-the-art equipment which will further assist in bringing criminals to book.

Mnr P UYS: Mev die Speaker, hiermee gee ek kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van die Huis sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) kennis neem dat ‘n studie van Idasa die volgende skoksyfers bekend gemaak het -

   (a)  60% van kinders in  Suid-Afrika  se  lewensomstandighede  is  te
       armoedig om 'n gesonde en geborge lewe te lei; en


   (b)  byna 3,8 miljoen van die 60% armoedige kinders ses jaar  oud  en
       jonger is;

(2) glo -

   (a)  dit is 'n skande dat die meerderheid van die  kinders  in  Suid-
       Afrika in sulke haglike omstandighede leef; en


   (b)  dat 'n bord kos vir 'n kind nie 'n voorreg moet wees  nie,  maar
       'n reg; en

(3) ‘n beroep doen op die Regering, die Parlement, die Departement van Maatskaplike Ontwikkeling en alle ander rolspelers om te verseker dat die jeug wat die toekoms van ons land is, sélf ook die toekoms gegun word wat elke kind in Suid-Afrika verdien. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr P UYS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that a study by Idasa revealed the following shocking statistics:

   (a)  the living conditions of 60% of children in South Africa are too
       impoverished to lead a healthy and secure life; and


   (b)  nearly 3,8 million of the 60% of poor children are 6  years  old
       and younger;

(2) believes -

   (a)  it is a disgrace that the majority  of  the  children  in  South
       Africa live under such terrible conditions; and


   (b)  that a plate of food should not be a privilege for a child,  but
       a right; and

(3) appeals to the Government, Parliament, the Department of Social Development and all other role-players to ensure that the youth, who are the future of our country, are themselves not begrudged the future which every child in South Africa deserves.]

Ms N MAHLAWE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the UDM on the next sitting day of the House:

That the House -

(1) notes the ``Heritage at Risk’’ report which was compiled by a nongovernmental group and released yesterday;

(2) further notes that this report identified various world historic monuments and sites, and is complementary to Unesco’s List of World Heritage in Danger, amongst which Table Mountain and traditional South African architecture are listed;

(3) concurs with the warning against short-term fashionable pressures such as the wholesale alien vegetation removal on the slope of the historic landscape of Table Mountain;

(4) calls on the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to ensure that these heritage sites are protected from over-zealous uninformed participants, and that all governmental policy be drafted taking this report into account; and

(5) urges all South Africans to assist in protecting and promoting our rich and diverse heritage, so that our children can inherit it and understand where they come from.

 REPORT OF SOUTH AFRICAN PARLIAMENTARY OBSERVER MISSION TO ZIMBABWE

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House:

(1) notes -

   (a)  the report of the South African Parliamentary Observer Mission;


   (b)  that 3,1 million people cast their  votes  in  the  presidential
       elections; and


   (c)  the conditions described in the  report  of  the  South  African
       Parliamentary Observer Mission and the polarisation that  exists
       in Zimbabwe; and

(2) resolves - (a) to call on all Zimbabweans to work together towards national unity and reconciliation of the people of Zimbabwe; and

   (b)  that the 2002 Presidential elections are a  credible  expression
       of the will of the people of Zimbabwe.

[Applause.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Speaker, I move as an amendment:

To omit all the words after ``That’’ and to substitute: the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)   the  overwhelming  proof  of  election  irregularities  in  the
       Zimbabwe elections; and


   (b)  that it was accordingly impossible for Zimbabweans to cast their
       votes in a free and fair manner; and

(2) resolves not to endorse the elections in Zimbabwe as being genuinely free and fair or as representing the will of the people.

[Applause.]

Mr L M GREEN: Madam Speaker, I move as a further amendment:

That the following words be substituted for the words in paragraph (2)(b): ``that the elections in Zimbabwe cannot be certified as being free and fair.’’

Amendment moved by Mr L M Green negatived.

Amendment moved by Mr M J Ellis put.

Division demanded.

The House divided:

AYES:-70: Andrew, K M; Aucamp, C; Bakker, D M; Baloyi, O S B; Bell, B G; Beukman, F; Bhengu, G B; Biyela, B P; Blaas, A; Blanché, J P I; Clelland- Stokes, N J; Da Camara, M L; Dhlamini, B W; Ditshetelo, P H K; Dowry, J J; Dudley, C; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Gore, V C; Gous, S J; Green, L M; Greyling, C H F; Grobler, G A J; Groenewald, P J; Heine, R J; Herandien, C B; Hlengwa, M W; Jankielsohn, R; Kalyan, S V; Kgauwe, Q J; Le Roux, J W; Lee, T D; Lowe, C M; Madasa, Z L; Maluleke, D K; McIntosh, G B D; Meshoe, K R J; Mfundisi, I S; Moonsamy, K; Moorcroft, E K; Morkel, C M; Morobi, D M; Mpontshane, A M; Mulder, C P; Ndlovu, V B; Ndou, R S; Niemann, J J; Pillay, S; Rabie, P J; Redcliffe, C R; Roopnarain, U; Schippers, J; Seeco, M A; Semple, J A; Sibiya, M S M; Simmons, S; Slabbert, J H; Smith, P F; Sono, B N; Southgate, R M; Swart, P S; Swart, S N; Uys, P; Van der Merwe, A S; Van der Merwe, J H; Van Jaarsveld, A Z A; Van Niekerk, A I; Vos, S C; Woods, G; Zondi, K M. NOES:-196: Abram, S; Ainslie, A R; Balfour, B M N; Baloyi, M R; Baloyi, S F; Benjamin, J; Bhengu, F; Bloem, D V; Booi, M S; Botha, N G W; Buthelezi, M N; Cachalia, I M; Chalmers, J; Chiba, L; Chikane, M M; Chiwayo, L L; Chohan-Khota, F I; Coetzee-Kasper, M P; Cwele, S C; De Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Didiza, A T; Dithebe, S L; Dlali, D M; Dlamini, B O; Doidge, G Q M; Douglas, B M; Duma, N M; Dyani, M M Z; Fankomo, F C; Fazzie, M H; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T; Gandhi, E; Gcina, C I; George, M E; Gerber, P A; Gillwald, C E; Gogotya, N J; Gomomo, P J; Goniwe, M T; Goosen, A D; Gumede, D M; Gxowa, N B; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A; Hlaneki, C J M; Hlangwana, N L; Jassat, E E; Jeffery, J H; Joemat, R R; Kannemeyer, B W; Kasienyane, O R; Kati, J Z; Kgarimetsa, J J; Kgauwe, Q J; Kgwele, L M; Komphela, B M; Koornhof, G W; Kota, Z A; Kotwal, Z; Landers, L T; Lekota, M G P; Lishiva, T E; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Luthuli, A N; Lyle, A G; Mabe, L; Mabena, D C; Mabuza, D D; Madlala-Routledge, N C; Magazi, M N; Magubane, N E; Magwanishe, G; Mahlangu, M J; Maimane, D S; Maine, M S; Makanda, W G; Malebana, H F; Maloney, L; Malumise, M M; Maphalala, M A; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Martins, B A D; Maseka, J T; Maserumule, F T; Masithela, N H; Masutha, M T; Mathibela, N F; Maunye, M M; Maziya, A M; Mbombo, N D; Mbulawa-Hans, B G; Mguni, B A; Middleton, N S; Mkono, D G; Mnandi, P N; Mndende, O N; Mngomezulu, G P; Mnumzana, S K; Modisenyane, L J; Modise, T R; Moeketse, K M; Mofokeng, T R; Mogoba, M S; Mohamed, I J; Mohlala, R J B; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B G; Moloi, J; Moloto, K A; Mongwaketse, S J; Montsitsi, S D; Moonsamy, K; Moropa, R M; Morutoa, M R; Moss, M I; Mothiba, L C; Mothoagae, P K; Motubatse, S D; Mpaka, H M; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mtsweni, N S; Mutsila, I; Mzondeki, M J G; Nair, B; Nash, J H; Ncinane, I Z; Ncube, B; Ndou, R S; Ndzanga, R; Nefolovhodwe, P J; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, N E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngculu, L V J; Ngubane, H; Ngubeni, J M; Nhleko, N P; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njobe, M A A; Nobunga, B J; Nqakula, C; Nqodi, S B; Ntshulana-Bhengu, N R; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, M B; Ntuli, S B; Nzimande, L P M; Oliphant, G G; Pahad, A G H; Pahad, E G; Phadagi, M G; Pheko, S E M; Phohlela, S; Pieterse, R D; Radebe, B A; Rajbally, S; Ramgobin, M; Ramotsamai, C M P; Rasmeni, S M; Reid, L R R; Saloojee, E; Schneeman, G D; Schoeman, E A; Scott, M I; Sekgobela, P S; Serote, M W; Shilubana, T P; Sigcawu, A N; Sigwela, E M; Skweyiya, Z S T; Smith, V G; Solo, B M; Solomon, G; Sonjica, B P; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Thabethe, E; Tinto, B; Tinto, B; Tolo, L J; Tsheole, N M; Twala, N M; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, S C; Van Wyk, A (Annelize); Van Wyk, J F; Van Wyk, N; Xingwana, L M T; Zondo, R P.

Amendment accordingly negatived.

Motion moved by the Chief Whip of the Majority Party put.

Division demanded.

The House divided:

AYES:-198: Abram, S; Ainslie, A R; Balfour, B M N; Baloyi, M R; Baloyi, S F; Benjamin, J; Bhengu, F; Bloem, D V; Booi, M S; Botha, N G W; Buthelezi, M N; Cachalia, I M; Carrim, Y I; Chalmers, J; Chiba, L; Chikane, M M; Chiwayo, L L; Chohan-Khota, F I; Coetzee-Kasper, M P; Cwele, S C; De Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Didiza, A T; Dithebe, S L; Dlali, D M; Dlamini, B O; Doidge, G Q M; Douglas, B M; Duma, N M; Dyani, M M Z; Fankomo, F C; Fazzie, M H; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T; Gandhi, E; Gcina, C I; George, M E; Gerber, P A; Gillwald, C E; Gogotya, N J; Gomomo, P J; Goniwe, M T; Goosen, A D; Gumede, D M; Gxowa, N B; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A; Hendrickse, P A C; Hlaneki, C J M; Hlangwana, N L; Jassat, E E; Jeffery, J H; Joemat, R R; Kannemeyer, B W; Kasienyane, O R; Kati, J Z; Kgarimetsa, J J; Kgauwe, Q J; Kgwele, L M; Komphela, B M; Koornhof, G W; Kota, Z A; Kotwal, Z; Landers, L T; Lekota, M G P; Lishiva, T E; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Luthuli, A N; Lyle, A G; Mabe, L; Mabena, D C; Mabuza, D D; Madlala-Routledge, N C; Magazi, M N; Magubane, N E; Magwanishe, G; Mahlangu, M J; Maimane, D S; Maine, M S; Makanda, W G; Malebana, H F; Maloney, L; Malumise, M M; Maphalala, M A; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Martins, B A D; Maseka, J T; Maserumule, F T; Masithela, N H; Masutha, M T; Mathibela, N F; Maunye, M M; Maziya, A M; Mbombo, N D; Mbulawa-Hans, B G; Mguni, B A; Middleton, N S; Mkono, D G; Mnandi, P N; Mndende, O N; Mngomezulu, G P; Mnumzana, S K; Modisenyane, L J; Modise, T R; Moeketse, K M; Mofokeng, T R; Mogoba, M S; Mohamed, I J; Mohlala, R J B; Molebatsi, M A; Molewa, B G; Moloi, J; Moloto, K A; Mongwaketse, S J; Montsitsi, S D; Moonsamy, K; Morobi, D M; Moropa, R M; Morutoa, M R; Moss, M I; Mothiba, L C; Mothoagae, P K; Motubatse, S D; Mpaka, H M; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mtsweni, N S; Mutsila, I; Mzondeki, M J G; Nair, B; Nash, J H; Ncinane, I Z; Ncube, B; Ndou, R S; Ndzanga, R A; Nefolovhodwe, P J; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, N E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngculu, L V J; Ngubeni, J M; Nhleko, N P; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njobe, M A A; Nobunga, B J; Nqakula, C; Nqodi, S B; Ntombela, S H; Ntshulana-Bhengu, N R; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, M B; Ntuli, S B; Nzimande, L P M; Oliphant, G G; Pahad, A G H; Pahad, E G; Phadagi, M G; Pheko, S E M; Phohlela, S; Pieterse, R D; Radebe, B A; Rajbally, S; Ramgobin, M; Ramotsamai, C M P; Rasmeni, S M; Reid, L R R; Saloojee, E; Schneeman, G D; Schoeman, E A; Scott, M I; Sekgobela, P S; Serote, M W; Shilubana, T P; Sigcawu, A N; Sigwela, E M; Skweyiya, Z S T; Smith, V G; Solo, B M; Solomon, G; Sonjica, B P; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Thabethe, E; Tinto, B; Tolo, L J; Tsheole, N M; Twala, N M; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, S C; Van Wyk, A (Annelize); Van Wyk, J F; Van Wyk, N; Xingwana, L M T; Zondo, R P.

NOES:-70: Andrew, K M; Aucamp, C; Bakker, D M; Baloyi, O S B; Bell, B G; Beukman, F; Bhengu, G B; Biyela, B P; Blaas, A; Blanché, J P I; Botha, A J; Clelland-Stokes, N J; Da Camara, M L; Dhlamini, B W; Ditshetelo, P H K; Dowry, J J; Dudley, C; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Ferreira, E T; Gore, V C; Gous, S J; Green, L M; Greyling, C H F; Grobler, G A J; Groenewald, P J; Heine, R J; Herandien, C B; Hlengwa, M W; Jankielsohn, R; Kalyan, S V; Le Roux, J W; Lee, T D; Lowe, C M; Madasa, Z L; Maluleke, D K; McIntosh, G B D; Meshoe, K R J; Mfundisi, I S; Moorcroft, E K; Morkel, C M; Mpontshane, A M; Mulder, C P; Ndlovu, V B; Ngubane, H; Niemann, J J; Pillay, S; Rabie, P J; Redcliffe, C R; Roopnarain, U; Schippers, J; Seeco, M A; Semple, J A; Sibiya, M S M; Simmons, S; Slabbert, J H; Smith, P F; Smuts, M; Sono, B N; Southgate, R M; Swart, P S; Swart, S N; Uys, P; Van der Merwe, A S; Van der Merwe, J H; Van Jaarsveld, A Z A; Van Niekerk, A I; Vos, S C; Woods, G; Zondi, K M.

Motion accordingly agreed to.

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: The IFP wants to place on record that although we believe that ``voting in Zimbabwe was not free and fair, we believe that this voting is free and fair. [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! That is definitely on record.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 18 - Social Development:

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Madam Speaker, hon members, MECs of the Department of Social Development, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, the central question that President Mbeki posed to all of us and our people in this country in his state of the nation address was simple, clear and very direct. It was whether what we are doing in the legislature, the executive, the judiciary and civil society was helping to uplift from the shoulders of our people, the intolerable burden of poverty and underdevelopment.

All of our people have an individual and collective responsibility to reflect upon this question, to provide honest answers and to work together to implement agreed programmes. As Minister for Social Development and as a member of this Parliament, it will be remiss of me to pass on the opportunity to address this important and fundamental question.

The approach that the Ministry of Social Development has adopted in its work in various Government clusters has been to focus on creating a world fit for children. The Department of Social Development principally its largest programme, social security, continues to put children first. It continues to be my experience that the overwhelming majority of South Africans are actors in the struggle to eradicate poverty and to build a caring and people-centred society.

During my visits to various parts of the country over the last two years, I witnessed scores of people, especially women and volunteers who, even in difficult circumstances, are doing a sterling job to give hope and meaning to the lives of children who are suffering.

We have, in the gallery, women like Margaret Kolbe of the Tafelsig Rehabilitation Centre in Cape Town who, over the last two years and despite many difficulties, increased by six times the number of children under her care, from 60 to 360. Mama Margaret has the deep and enduring gratitude of us as Government. [Applause.]

I would also like to acknowledge the selfless efforts of Sister Deborah Kudisang of the Chance Children’s Home in Springs, Miss Ria Stanton of the Salem Baby Care Centre in the Eastern Cape, Mrs Willeminah Bodibe of the Tembisa and Phomolong Child Care Centre in Gauteng and Mama Mazibuko of the Orlando Children’s Home in Soweto. They, too, are heroes who, through their unwavering commitment, have given hope to hundreds of children who have been orphaned, abandoned or abused.

There are thousands of unsung heroes like them across the length and breadth of our country. The example set by these heroes is reassuring and inspires confidence and hope. People from all walks of life are mobilising to fight poverty, Aids and child abuse. They exemplify the response our people are making to the call of Vukuzenzele.

Let me take this opportunity to acknowledge all those people who have worked tirelessly during the International Year of the Volunteer to support and promote volunteering. They do our nation proud. To all of them I say: Nangamso! [Thank you!] [Applause.]

Our priority this year is to ensure that we provide support to all such volunteer initiatives through our poverty relief, HIV/Aids, community and home-based care programmes and our social security programmes. To this end we will continue to work even more closely with the faith-based organisations, NGOs, community-based organisations, the business sector and organised labour.

I want to take this opportunity also once again to thank the faith-based organisations, specifically the churches, and also the Muslim community and all the other faiths that have made a difference in the lives of our people. Since 1994 our concern, as the ANC-led Government, has been to make democracy work for children. Our activities have been focused on entrenching children’s rights and improving children’s access to social security and social services.

The SA Law Commission has, for some time, been working on the complex task of drafting a new comprehensive child care Act, which will provide a sound legal basis and legal framework to protect children and their rights, especially those who are made vulnerable through poverty and circumstances not of their own making. The SA Law Commission has published for comment a discussion paper on which the new legislation will be based. We expect the Bill to be introduced in this Parliament later this year. Key to this legislation will be comprehensive protection of children from all forms of abuse. We would appeal to all members of this Parliament, from all parties, to look into that proposed legislation and make their comments so that we will be able to produce a better Act and a better Bill.

If we are a moral and ethical people, then our society should not tolerate or condone the sexual abuse of our children. I therefore applaud the initiative taken by this Parliament to hold public hearings on this issue. Last week the House heard of the harrowing and painful experiences that some of our children have been put through. From the submissions made during these hearings, it is clear that eradicating the scourge of sexual abuse of children requires the collective effort of Government, civil society and communities. The abuse of our children is unacceptable. It requires decisive, immediate and unrelenting action from all of us.

A number of Government departments, both national and provincial, have been working together with the nongovernmental sector to combat the problems of child abuse. The Department of Social Development has briefed the parliamentary task group on the actions taken to date, for example, the establishment of a child protection register. The sad reality about the sexual abuse of children is that, in many cases, the perpetrators are not strangers but people who are known to and trusted by the child. The incidence of sexual abuse is gnawing at the moral fibre of our society and moral renewal is an urgent imperative.

I call on all members of this House to work with Government and the religious sector to build a moral order that underpins our Constitution. I also call on business, labour, civics, NGOs and CBOs to be part of the process of redefining our society through active participation in the moral regeneration processes, starting with the summit later this year. We have to send a message to perpetrators of child abuse that the wellbeing and safety of our children are non-negotiable.

The President announced in his state of the nation address that we would be mounting a national effort to register all people who are eligible to receive social grants. The planning of this national effort is well under way and we have drawn in other departments such as Home Affairs and Health to participate. The total number of current social grant beneficiaries is now 4,3 million.

The child support grant and the care dependency grant for children with severe disabilities are a vital source of income to care-givers with little or no other income. The aged persons’ grant is vital to the grandmother caring for her grandchildren. Although we will be registering all beneficiaries, the children will be the focus of our efforts during this first year.

Over the past year the number of children receiving payment has increased by 500 000, to just over 1,5 million. While the growth has been substantial, we must reach many more children in the poorer parts of our country. We will be calling on our partners in various sectors of civil society to support the campaign and I hope that parliamentarians will assist their constituencies as they have done in the past. All of us have a duty to ensure that we reach every house, street, location, village and community in both the rural and urban areas of our country.

In addition to grants, children and families affected by HIV/Aids have received support through the home-based and community-based care programmes. Over the past year the department has supported 185 projects and an estimated 50 000 children have benefited from the programme. A number of these projects have been initiated by communities themselves and faith-based organisations which, through their selfless efforts, have improved the material and social conditions of these children.

We will expand these programmes significantly during the new financial year through the R48 million budget allocation made to the provincial and national departments of social development.

The Government programme of building a better life for all and consolidating a caring society through improved service delivery continues. The Minister of Finance has announced grant increases that are above expected inflation rates this year and will come into effect from 1 April this year. These increases will be implemented in conjunction with a number of measures to improve our social security system. These measures include enforcing national norms and standards for social security, training 1 500 social security officials, improving infrastructure and introducing new information technology. All of this will help to improve the accessibility and quality of social security services.

Furthermore, Cabinet has made a decision to set aside R2 billion to pay beneficiaries who have been disadvantaged by the month limitation on the accrual of arrears. Our decision was based on our belief that beneficiaries should not be penalised for the shortcomings in legislation and the administration of our social security system. Every beneficiary who is entitled to an arrears payment will receive his or her payment. We will soon be communicating with all beneficiaries on how the payments will be made. A comprehensive campaign to this effect is being finalised in conjunction with the provinces, and we will work very closely with the local authorities as well as the community structures in this regard.

When making this payment, we must be sure and ensure that the safety of beneficiaries, at all times, is well spelt out. We must also be vigilant and guard against fraudulent claims. Officials will be informed that swift disciplinary action will be taken against public servants who ignore the Batho Pele principles in serving our people. I also call on members of the community and all the public servants to join us in making sure that all beneficiaries are reached and that any attempt to defraud the system is exposed and prevented. The committee of inquiry into comprehensive social security has completed its investigation and has made presentations to the Minister’s committee for consideration. A special Cabinet meeting is to be held soon to discuss the whole report and decide on the way forward.

I am pleased to announce the establishment of assessment panels to expedite the processing of disability grant applications. I trust that this will alleviate the misery experienced by many applicants, especially those living in rural areas with no access to district surgeons.

We continue to make steady progress with the poverty relief programme, and in the past year we have established 350 poverty relief projects around the country. These are in addition to projects that we continue to support from previous years. In the coming financial year, the poverty relief allocation will increase to R100 million.

The question is often asked whether the poverty relief programme is targeting the poor and making a difference. Our information shows that most of the projects are located in the three provinces with the highest poverty rates, namely, the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and Limpopo.

The poverty relief programme targets vulnerable groups, namely, women, children, the youth, the elderly and people with disabilities. We estimate that over a three-year period, 60 000 people will have earned wages generated through the poverty relief projects. The war against poverty can only be won when it is intensified on all fronts in an integrated manner and, over the next year, we will focus on our poverty relief efforts in the node of the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme and the Urban Renewal Programme. We will also build institutional capacity within communities and within the departments to ensure the sustainability of the projects.

The National Development Agency has a critical role to play in the war against poverty through its support to community-based and nongovermental organisations. As members of this House may be aware, the National Development Agency has been transferred to the Department of Social Development and we are finalising amendments to the legislation to complete the transfer. The Poverty Relief Programme is intended to support the poorest and most vulnerable members of our society. Any attempts by individuals and officials to enrich themselves and defraud the state will be dealt with in the most severe way.

We cannot hope to redress the social and economic imbalances of the past unless we respond to the inequalities and injustices experienced by women in this country. We have sought to empower women economically through the Poverty Relief Programme and the flagship programme and our social grants support women in their roles as primary care-givers.

The victim empowerment programme provides support to women and victims of domestic violence, and the department works closely with the Department of Justice and the SAPS with regard to all forms of violence against women. [Applause.] Women are drivers of many community initiatives and it is time that we, as men, treated them with due respect and pride. [Applause.]

The department’s budget allocation will increase from R190 million last year to R409 in this financial year. Most of the increases in the allocation are to transfer payments to benefit communities in the poverty relief programme, the home-based community care programme and to fund projects of the National Development Agency. Funding has also been allocated to improve the social security system and to strengthen the capacity of the department. This increased budget, together with the substantial allocation for social grants, reflects this Government’s commitment to the poorest sector of our society.

We are nearly midway through the implementation of the 10-point plan to make the sector responsive to the needs of the poor and the vulnerable members of our society. I believe that we have made progress in many areas. We are turning the corner on the implementation of the 10-point plan. We have increased the number of social grant beneficiaries by over one million since April 2000, and we are proceeding with improving the social security system on a number of fronts. We have managed to resolve many of the problems with the poverty relief programme and our programme to support children and families affected by HIV/Aids is expanding.

The Disaster Relief Board has paid R49,7 million to victims in this year alone and has completed the processing of over 19 000 claims from victims of last year’s floods, specifically in the Western Cape. We have built partnerships with community-based organisations, faith-based organisations and the volunteer sector, and continue to work very strongly and closely with the nongovernmental sector. The department has registered over 800 nonprofit organisations over the past two years, and has trained 650 organisations in governance matters during the past year alone.

We are making progress in the implementation of the recommendations that emerged from the report on abuse of the elderly. Many of the recommendations related to the payment of pensions and these have been taken up in the programme to improve social security. The audit of homes for the aged is close to completion, and provincial departments are following up on the many complaints received by the ministerial committee in the course of their hearings. A new policy and legislation on the status of older persons will also be completed this year.

Over the past few years, we have been working with the business sector to provide concrete support to our programmes and later this year we will be holding round table discussions with the business sector.

I take this opportunity to thank Messrs Cyril Ramaphosa and Raymond Ackerman for lending their support to this important initiative. I also thank the House of SCB, Billington Mines, Ikageng Trust, AngloGold and Erikson for working with us to invest in social development and to make a difference. I urge other companies to follow suit. We do not take comfort in the progress we have made so far. There are a number of critical issues that need to be addressed before we can say that we have turned the corner and are in the final stretch. Most urgent amongst these issues is the poor infrastructure for social development in many provinces. The conditions at pension paypoints and local offices are not conducive to providing good services. Many offices lack basic equipment such as telephones and computers and offer no privacy to people seeking assistance. The problem is compounded by the human resource constraints, especially in the poorer provinces.

We are committed to accelerating the transformation of welfare services. Poor people living in rural areas and in informal settlements have limited access to social services. The transformation programme must include the introduction of new or revised legislation to replace the inadequate pieces of legislation predating the transition to democracy in 1994.

We must also provide better financial support to nongovernmental organisations and emerging community-based organisations. The National Development Agency has a critical role to play in this regard.

Although we have increased the number of secure care facilities over the past two years, they are insufficient to accommodate the number of children awaiting trial in police cells and in correctional services and care facilities. Establishing additional facilities will not solve the problem. It is, therefore, imperative that we expand our diversion programmes, the one-stop justice centre, specifically the one in Port Elizabeth, and the probation services.

The interdepartmental team made up by Social Development, Justice, Correctional Services and the SA Police Service continues to work closely together in order to reduce the number of children awaiting trial in adult facilities.

Although we have had some successes in responding to the needs of the youth in a number of our programmes, we are still some way from having an integrated youth development strategy, as envisaged in Government’s national youth development framework. We need to enhance the linkages and co-ordination between our efforts and those of Umsobomvu, the National Youth Services and the National Youth Commission.

In his state of the nation address, President Mbeki raised the issue of social equity and justice for disabled people. While we have amended the regulations in order to improve access to disability grants, I remain concerned that we are not reaching disabled children whose care-givers should receive the care dependency grant. In addition to ensuring that these children have access to social grants, we must also ensure that they have access to other support services. I will be establishing a review of services to disabled children, especially in the rural areas.

Many of the problems that we deal with, such as violence against women and children, occur against the background of drug and alcohol abuse. I am requesting the Central Drug Authority to prioritise programmes for children and youth. While the Central Drug Authority and law-enforcement agencies will undoubtedly do their utmost on this issue, we have an individual and collective responsibility to combat drug and alcohol abuse in our midst.

In conclusion, many individuals and organisations have worked with us over the past year to build a caring society, and I thank them for their invaluable contribution. I would also like to thank our international partners, including Save the Children of the UK, the governments of the Netherlands, France and Germany, and the various agencies of the United Nations.

I thank the MECs of social development and the officials in the national and provincial departments for their commitment to improving service delivery over the past year. All of our work and efforts are helping to lift the intolerable burden of poverty and underdevelopment from the shoulders of our people.

If we are to eradicate the legacy of poverty and underdevelopment, our children, who are the present and the future of our nation, must be given the opportunity to grow up in a healthy, caring, loving and safe environment. Protecting children is everybody’s business, and I call on all to lend a hand and make this country a better place for children. Abantwana kuqala! Kinders eerste! Bana Pele! Children first! [Applause.]

Mr E SALOOJEE: Madam Speaker, hon Minister, hon members, I rise to support the Budget Vote of the Department of Social Development.

A number of Government initiatives are particularly focused on enabling us as South Africans within the context of our continent to re-establish control over our own destiny and to fulfil our own potential, as has been our vision from the start of our fight against oppression and inequality. One of them is the Nepad initiative through which we as Africans will take the lead in eradicating the scars of poverty, hunger, disease and underdevelopment.

It is in the spirit of our quest for self-fulfilment that we heed the call by the President in his state of the nation address that we must stand up and act. It is in this context that I want to join the Minister in his call on all of us to fight together in order to push back the frontiers of poverty.

Approximately half of all South Africans are poor. But in rural South Africa, home to about 48% of all South Africans, at least 71% of people are classified as poor, compared to 29% in the urban areas. Despite the impressive advances which we have made with fiscal discipline and the reshaping of our economy to ensure that it remains on the growth path, the poverty gap has grown, with the richest 20% of all South Africans earning 52,5% of income, while the poorest 20% earn only 3,1% of total household income.

Therefore we recognise the fact that we must continue to provide some form of safety net to the most vulnerable sections of our society. In fact, more than 90% of the consolidated budget for social development is spent on the provision of social security benefits. This means that direct cash transfers to the value of R18 billion this year alone will be paid to some of the poorest households in South Africa. When compared to middle-income developing countries across the globe, this forms one of the most effective forms of direct poverty relief.

This year the increases in the social grants, as the Minister has pointed out, are well above the rate of inflation. The old age grant increases by more than 8% from R570 to R620 per month, while the child support grant increases from R110 to R130, an increase of nearly 18%. These increases are also being brought forward from July to April.

Although our social security provisions are relatively good, they still do not reach vast sections of those who have little or no access to the basic means of survival. This is one of the problems that the ministerial committee of inquiry into a comprehensive social security system for South Africa was tasked to address. We are hoping that out of the committee’s deliberations some policy will come to target that group which is falling outside the net that we are already providing.

Let us note clearly that the debate around the basic citizen’s income is a debate that was started by the ANC’s social partners, not by the opposition. Whether this Government accepts the notion of a basic income grant or not, let us lead the process of finding some route of making provision for some of those who now have no means of providing for themselves.

Even as we struggle to find a formula for a comprehensive social security system, we must wage a battle to ensure that the benefits that we are able to offer are used to the greatest possible effect. We cannot allow administrative inefficiencies to stand in the way of our people claiming their rights.

It is not acceptable that the old, the frail and the disabled are made to wait for their grants at payment points, where they are not offered any shelter or access to ablution facilities, or access to some form of refreshment. It is not acceptable that old people should be turned away from paypoints time after time and be told: ``There is no money for you this month’’.

I know that the Minister has deep concerns around this. If this is the result of weak administration, it must be addressed as a matter of urgency. If it is matter of dishonesty and corruption amongst officials, then our message must be equally clear: we will not tolerate it. We join the President in his call to all public servants that our service to people must be respectful of their dignity and that it must be delivered on the basis of Batho Pele.

Our vision for our country is one in which our people are able to provide for themselves through meaningful employment and economic activity. This is why we must support the Government’s sustained programme of investing in human capital through the Integrated Rural Development Strategy and the Urban Renewal Strategy. We believe that the allocation to the Department of Social Development must be focused specifically on providing opportunities to the poorest and the most vulnerable sectors of our society, especially single mothers, the disabled and those most affected by the impact of HIV/Aids.

There have been considerable problems in the past years in spending the money allocated to the department for the purpose of poverty eradication programmes, and we were particularly concerned that the money spent on projects was not sufficiently targeted at the development of capacity and long-term sustainability. However, we are now confident that these problems are being addressed on an ongoing basis.

We must now be able to move forward with projects into a phase in which there are clear strategic plans for long-term sustainability and in which the support that the department can and must give a project is clear and accessible. In this regard, we are frustrated about the fact that there is still doubt about the precise role of the Independent Development Trust, the NDN and the National Development Agency, and that of the provincial and national governments, in identifying and supporting projects that receive funding.

Let me now turn to the area of social services. We want to remind members that less than 10% of the consolidated social development budget is available for developmental work. We are doing tremendously well with regard to social security, programmes aimed at services that will strengthen the lives of older people protecting children in vulnerable families, empowering persons with disabilities, and healing persons who struggle with substance abuse. I do not want to suggest that the money spent on social security must be reduced, by no means, but I do want to plead for a larger allocation of resources for the tasks of social development.

Questions relating to the protection of our children are especially important, as the debate will also reveal later today. Since we came into Government, one of our constant themes has been that the laws that we have to protect our children need critical reform.

When we became a signatory to the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child, we committed ourselves to the introduction of legislation that is rights-based and responsive to the particular needs of children within the context of their families and communities.

Therefore, we must now be very serious about finalising the SA Law Commission’s review of the Child Care Act. I think we must accept that we will not be able to write the ultimate statute in one fell swoop, but we must come up with a comprehensive piece of legislation that encompasses our vision for the children of our country.

It has taken a considerable amount of time to advance this process. But, when one peruses the discussion document produced by the SA Law Commission, it becomes clear that their work covers a vast amount of research and that it contains some critically important insights. We now want to say that it is encouraging that we should have draft legislation before Parliament hopefully by the middle of the year.

We also need to make real advances in developing policy and legislation that will adequately address the needs of older people. There has, for a considerable time, been a particular weakness in the department around addressing the needs of the aged. This has contributed to the recommendations of the ministerial committee of inquiry into the abuse of older persons not being fully implemented.

We want to see legislation in this Assembly that will be appropriate for the needs of all our older persons, and particularly those in disadvantaged communities. We cannot afford to continue focusing narrowly on the provision of institutional care for essentially a minority of South Africans.

This legislation must assist us in making progress with the transformation of existing residential care facilities, and the establishment of appropriate service centres in communities so that older persons can play an active role and be seen as a valuable part of the community.

Without the effort of voluntary organisations, we would not be able to provide a fraction of the care and services needed in very many of our most disadvantaged communities. Therefore, I would like to pay tribute to the role that the volunteer sector plays in social development.

And because the development component of this Vote is so limited, we are increasingly dependent on the role of NGOs and CBOs. However, these organisations are experiencing a crisis in relation to funding and we are running the risk of losing their valuable contributions.

Subsidies have had to be reduced and many organisations are battling to secure sufficient contributions from the private sector to be able to carry out their functions. There has been significant confusion around the funding of such organisations, and we urge the department to finalise an appropriate financing policy. It is now imperative that this sector is treated as full partners in enhancing the development work, and that they are adequately funded.

There was some expectation that the National Lottery would make a substantial amount of money available, specifically for the nonprofit sector in social development. Organisations have had real hopes that their fundraising efforts would be complemented by funding from the National Lottery, but that funding must be expedited.

We have seen and established that, in some cases, it is the untransformed organisations that have been with us from the days before democracy that benefit most from the lottery funding. Some of the decisions just do not make sense. So, we plead with the distributing agency for the welfare sector to be much more transparent about how funding decisions are made, and to ensure that they proactively engage with those community-based organisations that so desperately need funding.

For the first time in our country, and especially in the rural areas, one sees that community organisations that are emerging are going to play a critical role in the social development of our people in those areas and I think they should be funded.

But those organisations of civil society that provide social development services also have to think of their own role in responding to the needs of our communities. Have they reshaped themselves in terms of their programmes and their governing bodies in such a way that they are able to provide services to a very different South Africa than the one many of them were designed to serve? We can no longer have the situation that one major organisation functions far from where the communities are located. This does not create the circumstances under which effective services can be provided. Organisations must be effectively rooted in the community they serve. They must further allow for a balance between therapeutic work and development work, and ensure that new social development workers are given the opportunity to contribute meaningfully to the building and empowering of communities.

In closing, I return to a point that I made at the start of my speech. Social security contributes to social stability and to the consolidation of democracy. However, how well it does this will depend on what else we do to eradicate the gnawing sense of hunger and frustration that has been the lot of too many of our people. Let us, together, create a setting in which all our people will be able to live creative and fulfilling lives. [Applause.]

Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Speaker, for the majority of children in South Africa, life since democracy is still grim. Five million children are desperately poor in the sense that they live in households with self- reported hunger.

The child support grant received a mere R20 increase this year. Translated into real terms, the increase is R11,80 since its introduction four years ago. The uptake rate is 50% and is limited to children from zero to six years. This age range is too narrow to provide adequate social support for children and families.

It took a TV documentary, in August 2001, on the links between child malnutrition and the difficulties of accessing the child support grant, to generate some action from the Department of Social Development in Mount Frere. What about those areas where there is no TV exposure? They continue to suffer in silence.

A study by Idasa shows that by raising the age to 12 years, thousands more children can benefit from the child support grant at relatively little additional cost. In fact, the cost of an extension could be as low as R2,9 billion. The Social Development budget does not adequately reflect a commitment to children, as 90% of the budget is utilised for social security benefits. While it is acknowledged that social security is perceived as one of the most effective tools to address poverty, other necessary and essential services are not equitably funded.

At a recent hearing on child abuse, each presenter highlighted the fact that there was simply not enough money for NGOs to do their work properly. For example, on average, only 48% of child welfare services are funded by Government. The ideal should be 75%.

There also appears to be great confusion over the department’s new financing policy and the Government’s approach to the support of children orphaned by HIV/Aids. Failure on the part of the state to provide nevirapine and post-exposure prophylaxis is criminal. Research has shown that post-exposure prophylaxis will halve the number of orphans. Orphanhood in South Africa is predicted to be about 2 million by 2010. Again, recent TV coverage on the orphan crisis in one area of KwaZulu-Natal resulted in an immediate promise of R2,5 million from the provincial budget. Yet, the foster care grant is being denied to thousands of grandparents looking after their orphaned grandchildren. They are told that once the policy is finalised, they will be able to access the foster care grant. Hungry children cannot wait for policies to be finalised. Also, the state subsidy for residential child care is far below inflation. In 2001 the grant per child increased by 10,4% after remaining unchanged for four years. No mention is made of this in this year’s budget.

Furthermore, assistance devices are not catered for at all in this budget. The promise of the first call for all children, especially disabled children, remains largely pie in the sky. Immediate improvement, finalisation and consistent implementation at both national and provincial levels of the financing policy is vital for improved social security delivery. Current trends suggest that the social security system is failing the poorest of the poor, given that an estimated 26,9 million people in South Africa live below the absolute poverty line and only approximately 4 million access income support. In conclusion, according to the Constitution, everyone has the right to have access to social security and to support themselves and their dependants. The state has an obligation to realise this right. The DA suggests that the state considers the United Nations’ 20/20 initiative, which encourages donor governments and institutions to give a minimum of 20% of their resources to social spending, if we are ever to push back the frontiers of poverty. [Applause.]

Mrs I MARS: Madam Speaker, the hon the Minister of Social Development actually added a theme to this year’s budget debate, namely pushing back the frontiers of poverty. It is in this context that we wish to examine various aspects of this budget, to see to what extent the budget’s allocations and the implementation of funded projects make this theme not just a vision but a reality.

The aim of the department, and I quote, ``… is to contribute to improving the quality of life of the poor, the vulnerable and the marginalised within South African society, through an integrated and caring system of social development grants and services. The social grant system is to date the most effective way in which to reach the most marginalised households.’’

Nationally the total number of all grants amount to 4 333 454. Taking into account the difficulties experienced in accessing these grants, particularly in the rural areas, and taking into account the number of poor and very poor individuals, estimated at 26,9 million, there is a desperate need to inject more relief into these households and communities.

All of us should be active participants in the development of new ideas, participating in debates with civil society as to how we can assist in finding solutions. We really have to take action, also to assist all those who are eligible for relief actually to receive it. We know that there is much support for the idea of BIG, the basic income grant. The concept of a basic income grant was first mooted after the publication and debate of the Ford Foundation’s poverty report. It came to the fore again, gaining the support of trade unions, churches and NGOs.

The Minister said in an interview with Heather Robinson on 16 January 2001, and I quote: We are sitting on a time bomb of poverty and social disintegration'' and you also saidAfter finding the terrible state of affairs in rural areas, I was sure that the grant would go a long way to address the concerns of the poorest of the poor.’’ We wholeheartedly agreed with him and hoped that the assurances given in this interview would bear fruit, namely that various departments such as Social Development, Labour, Finance and Health would research the proposal of a basic income grant and find a way of overcoming the inherent shortfalls of the European dole system, which everyone agrees, has many weaknesses.

We sincerely hoped, and I am sure the Minister also hoped, that a new, innovative approach could be found in order to pump cash into the homes and communities of our most disadvantaged citizens. When we became aware of the huge support this proposal was receiving from concerned institutions, we believed that this matter was receiving attention and we were therefore surprised to have this matter disposed of by accusing its proponents of macro populism.

However, we acknowledge that the hon the Minister of Finance stated that if such a grant could be fiscally sustainable, he could be persuaded about its economic soundness. My party discussed this matter a year and half ago and we now challenge our colleagues in the DP, NGOs, trade unions and others to find a sustainable mechanism for the delivery of such desperately needed relief. Because of our own deliberations, we understand the Minister of Finance’s concern and reluctance to commit to BIG. We in the IFP support the principle of the basic income grant as a poverty alleviation concept and hope that ways and means can be found to implement it.

This House recently passed a R2 billion Appropriation Bill. Many thousands of pensioners and other grant recipients welcomed the judgment obtained in the Transvaal Division of the High Court, setting aside a ministerial directive limiting the backpay of pension to three months before the pension grant actually being implemented. The prompt response by the Treasury in making a R2 billion conditional grant available to the provinces is very commendable.

During the debate on this Appropriation Bill concerns about the ability to disburse these funds were raised. Our portfolio committee could be briefed from time to time as to the progress made on this matter, particularly in view of the disturbing reports last week on the pension issue in Limpopo, in which it was claimed that Government had no funds available to process 164 000 pension applications. The IFP wishes to commend the Black Sash and others for the tenacity with which they pursued this matter, proving that justice shall prevail.

The recently announced increases in pensions and grants are very welcome. It would help if we could agree on a formula by which pensions and grants are increased at a given percentage above inflation annually. We have to remember that old age pensions, intended to keep one person in reasonable comfort, are now stretched to care for unemployed family members, children, HIV orphans, and others.

In many instances, pensions and grants are the only income for households. However, as has been mentioned by others, we have no safety net for the 7 to 64-year-olds in need of support. This remains an issue of serious concern which needs our attention. Job creation projects would accommodate only a small percentage of able-bodied unemployed. What about the rest? Poverty relief through labour-intensive projects such as road building, etc, are helpful in the short term, but what intersectoral poverty relief plan will take care of this group in the medium to long term?

The important age group of children due to attend or attending school is without grant support. Withdrawing the grant at such an important stage of their physical and intellectual development can cause great harm. Would it not be possible to increase the cut-off date on a yearly basis for those children already in the system? It seems to be counterproductive to take them out of the system, given the difficulties we experienced in getting them in the system in the first instance.

We have no difficulties in accepting the amounts allocated to the national department; they are reasonable. We are pleased to have the National Development Agency placed under Programme 1, even if only provisionally. We are anxious to know the measures to be put in place to ensure that funds allocated to the NDA reach the target communities. In the report received by the portfolio committee hundreds of projects were listed, but we were given little information regarding the monitoring of these projects and we would ask if and when an impact assessment can be expected.

Programme 3 elicits some concern. How will the transition from Socpen to the new grant payment system be facilitated and how are the grant recipients to be protected? We accept that the Auditor-General’s report emphasised the need for adjustment to the system. However, we need to be assured that the recipients will not be penalised.

Under Programme 5, NGOs are assisted in developing ``an enabling legal environment and improved governance and funding’’ for the sector. The questions arise: How successful have these activities been? How have projects that lack capacity been assisted and, even more important, what has the impact of the poverty relief funds been on its beneficiaries?

As many programmes are being implemented and audited at provincial level, I have looked at the buget of the KwaZulu-Natal MEC for Welfare speech of 2001-2002, where he states that the flagship programme aimed at targeting women with young children has made a difference. He also reports that other programmes, such as the micro saving and poverty eradication projects, created 8 000 jobs mainly for women, have had beneficial effects for some communities.

One of the most important issues awaiting debate is a report of the committee of inquiry into a comprehensive social security system for South Africa. Knowing the calibre of the people the hon Minister has appointed to this committee, we are eagerly awaiting this report which may overtake some of the concerns raised on behalf of the IFP.

In conclusion, may I comment on the new organisational structure of the department which came into effect in April 2001 to strengthen the capacity in the core business function. Under the leadership of the director-general this appears to have been successful. I take this opportunity to thank the director-general and her team for the extensive briefings that we as members of the portfolio committee have received. Our thanks also go to the chairperson of the portfolio committee for the able way in which he leads this committee.

I may add that the hon the Minister of Social Development, has demonstrated, his caring concern in many ways, and he has personally interacted with large segments of affected individuals and communities. To push back the frontiers of poverty is going to be a long, hard road, but we have started our journey. The IFP supports Budget Vote 18. [Applause.]

Mr M T MASUTHA: Madam Speaker and hon members, allow me to join the millions of people in congratulating the Minister of Finance, Comrade Trevor Manuel, for the recognition he received from UCT when it conferred upon him an honorary doctorate in Commerce last week on 13 March 2002. [Applause.]

This is an acknowledgement of the decisive role he has played since his assumption of office in steering the South African ship safely across the many rough seas of the global and domestic economic environment.

It is a truism that the past determines the present in as much as the present determines the future. I therefore speak without fear of contradiction when I say that we are today finding ourselves in a big mess, a huge socio-economic backlog occasioned by our unenviable legacy of apartheid.

Evidence of this surrounds us every day of our lives. The squatter camps alongside our highways, children living on the streets, the crime and grime that continue to haunt our urban environments are substantially the consequence of many years of disenfranchisement and racial oppression, and the gruesome apartheid social engineering strategies that were sustained over many years.

This is a history not written in ink, but in blood, and it will continue to linger on in our memories for as long as its impact continues to define our society and its effect will take a considerable measure of time and effort to erase.

The ANC Government has, despite the gloomy picture I have just painted, embarked on a massive programme of reconstruction and development since it came into power in 1994. Therefore, this 2002/2003 Budget should not be seen in isolation, but as part of a sustained onslaught by the ANC-led Government on poverty, deprivation and social exclusion in pursuit of its vision towards creating a society for all based on equality, freedom and social justice.

Soon after he became the Minister of Social Development, Dr Zola Skweyiya led the process of establishing a committee of inquiry into a comprehensive social security system which was endorsed by Cabinet, and which was the outcome of decisions of the Jobs Summit.

I am confident that the outcome of our collective effort as the committee of inquiry, which comprises experts in the fields of economics, law, human development and other social sciences, will provide valuable insights that will assist Government in conducting a proper review of existing policy and legislative frameworks governing social security.

Contrary to popular belief the committee has not been established to examine the feasibility of the basic income grant alone. On the contrary, the committee’s brief is much more elaborate and encompasses the review of the full range of social interventions calculated to address poverty, vulnerability and social exclusion through social transfers, both public and private, contributory and noncontributory, be it in the form of social assistance, insurance or the full range of in kind social benefits.

Poverty manifests itself in various forms and impacts on people in numerous ways. It therefore requires a full range of measures calculated to reduce its impact on individuals, households and communities, many of which are currently provided by Government, ranging from direct cash benefits to indirect and in kind benefits, such as the building of social infrastructure for the provision of water, health care, road access, housing, etc.

South Africa remains one of the few countries in the world that has resisted significant cuts on social spending and whose social spending in fact reflects a resilient stance in favour of prioritising the poor. The social assistance programme which entails some six grant types geared towards the most vulnerable amongst our people, namely, children, the elderly, and persons with disabilities is the envy of many developing nations that simply cannot afford such social interventions. It is, in fact, our largest direct poverty alleviation programme for which the amount of over R18 billion has been allocated in the 2002-2003 Budget.

In this regard, allow me to quote from the section of the Budget Review dealing with the policy priorities over the medium term pertinent hereto. On page 127, specifically focusing on addressing poverty and vulnerability, it is said:

The social security grant system delivers income support to nearly 4 million poor South Africans. This is the largest and most effective redistributive programme within Government. Over the next three years, increases in the real value of the grants will place more money in the hands of the poor. This year, Government will help more families and care- givers who look after young children. The child support grant for children 7 years or less will go to a further 1,2 million children by the end of next year.

Whilst reviewing our social security policy and legislative frameworks, we must at the same time review the administrative system designed to actualise and give meaning to the rights and obligations regarding social security in our Constitution. Unlike under the previous dispensation, social security, including social assistance, is no longer a privilege, but a right which must be honoured and protected. We therefore welcome court rulings that have consistently affirmed this right and applaud the Minister of Finance for allocating a further R2 billion towards reversing the unfair denial of full access to this right resulting from administrative inefficiencies.

Transfers alone cannot address the pervasive challenge of poverty reduction. Job creation and sustainable development, and investing in social economic infrastructure, are critical elements in addressing poverty.

It is pleasing to note the robust approach adopted by this budget, as appears on page 126 of the Budget Review specifically dealing with policy priorities, which reads as follows, and I quote:

The key strategic thrust of the 2001 Budget in support of these objectives was to target significant resources for investing in new infrastructure and the maintenance and rehabilitation of existing assets. Appropriately designed, financed and managed, investment in infrastructure stimulates economic development and job creation in communities, improving quality of life and access to services and opportunities of poor people.

A ke rume polelo ka la gore ke nnete tlala e be e ntshitse noga moleteng; eupsa bjale ke tlala yeo e lego kotsing. [Legofsi.] [Let me conclude my speech by acknowledging that indeed, hunger has had the upper hand, but that now it is hunger that is on the retreat. [Applause.]]

Mr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD: Madam Speaker, recent statistics show that an estimated 26,9 million people are living below the absolute poverty line. This means that roughly 60% of all South Africans earn less than R400 per month, of which 10,4 million live in ultra-poor households. This means they earn less than R193 per month. A further disturbing figure indicates that about 30% of South African children aged between 0 and 17 years are living in desperately poor households. It is also estimated by Statistics South Africa that the unemployment rate is currently in the vicinity of 37%.

It is therefore abundantly clear that one of the greatest challenges of the post-apartheid era is the eradication of the legacy of poverty and the creation of a social development system that will be able to develop human capacity within communities and that will be self-reliant within a caring and enabling society. It is for this reason that the reduction of poverty should be the central focus of the Department of Social Development. The fight against poverty can never be that of the Government alone. It has to be a joint effort by those of us who really understand and are in touch with the desperate situation that the poorest of the poor in this country find themselves in.

Poverty destroys human dignity. We believe that it is critical to create a society that will accord all our citizens simple human dignity. In all facets of our national life, we need to embrace a new and inclusive South Africanism, aimed at achieving unity of purpose in ridding us from the shackles that are still holding us down and preventing us from growing to our full potential as a South African nation.

In terms of the New NP’s commitment to alleviating the burden of poverty and improving the quality of life of all those disadvantaged people, we believe that we should be part of the following processes. Firstly, we should all be committed to the agenda of social transformation that is embodied in the principle of social justice and the Bill of Rights contained in our Constitution. Secondly, we must endeavour to create a better life for the poor, the vulnerable and the disadvantaged people of our society. Thirdly, our task should be to reduce poverty and promote social integration. Fourthly, we need to develop and monitor the implementation of social policies that both create an enabling environment for and lead to the reduction of poverty. Fifthly, we should ensure that the provisions of social protection and social welfare serve all those people who are in need of such services. Sixthly, we should conduct research that develops the social indicators that are necessary for programme implementation and public accountability. Lastly, we believe that we should all be part of the Batho Pele principle of service delivery.

All the work of the department requires extensive and ongoing consultation with all the sectors of our society. The programme should be integrated with those of other Government departments and all spheres of government. The department must therefore work in partnership with NGOs, faith-based community organisations, the business sector, organised labour and other role-players. Access to the department should be based on solidarity and engender self-reliance. Social service professionals must act on the basis of solidarity with all of humanity.

Amongst the key objectives the Department of Social Development has identified for the medium term are: Firstly, the mitigation of the social and economic impact of HIV/Aids on poor households and children; secondly, the progressive achievement and realisation of children’s social and economic rights; and thirdly, to rebuild families and communities through programmes that empower young, old and disabled people as well as the women of the country.

In order to achieve these goals, the department will have to design and deliver appropriate policies and programmes will have to concentrate on improving the accessibility and efficiency of the social security system whilst at the same time building organisational capacity, improving co- operative governance and ensuring the appropriate distribution of resources in the social development sector.

A particular challenge should be to work with organisations that have the competencies to reach beneficiaries. Capacity will have to be built where needed and should result in the reallocation of resources in certain areas.

In conclusion, I would like to convey the thanks of the community of Port Elizabeth, specifically to the Minister and his department for their endeavours to improve services to pensioners and people who are receiving grants. They also thank the director-general and staff for their endeavours to meet with the challenges of the department. The New NP supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Mr D G MKONO: Madam Speaker, hon Minister, hon members, the Budget Vote before us should be a beacon of hope for many South Africans who live in poverty. We doubt if it is, given the situation that this country finds itself in.

We live in a country with few social workers, many of whom are not active. We live in a country where some surveys estimate that more than half of our children live in poverty. Other surveys estimate that half of our adult population share the same dismal fate. We are referring here to the lives of millions of South Africans, which are a catalogue of daily suffering and hunger.

The Department of Social Development is, in our opinion, severely under- resourced. Countless NGOs that are specialising in welfare related services bear testimony to this assertion. This Government is simply not reaching the poor and the neglected. This department is a perennial perpetrator of the crime of underspending and roll-overs. It is a crime and injustice that screams to the heavens. Year after year this Budget Vote receives too little from Government, and the department does not spend even that measly amount. There can be no justification for this gross negligence.

The failure of this department to achieve even its own intended targets is cause for great concern, never mind the fact that the department’s intended efforts, and even if achieved, are insufficient. For example, the child support grant, which extends only to children until the age of seven. Yet it is exactly at this age that children should go to school, which implies added expenses in their households in terms of tuition fees, school wear, stationery and transport costs. Government chooses to abandon these children at this fragile age. What hope do these children have of proper education that will help them to rise above poverty and become productive citizens?

The current system condemns them to the ranks of millions who require grants from Government. The same can be said of many other grants and services of the department.

We cannot condone the manner in which thousands of old age grants have been fumbled, delayed and cancelled in the past few years. Similarly, we are concerned about current systems’ insensitivity towards women and widows who often had poor households with little or no Government support. We are dismayed when we receive reports of disabled people who live in poverty and must seek private donors for vital surgery. The litany of neglects seems endless.

The budget Vote before us allocates too little, in our opinion, to address all these serious matters. To demonstrate this assertion, we need only to place it within the context of the R15 billion that the national Budget put back in the pockets of taxpayers or, for that matter, the staggering billions of rands being wasted on weapons of war. Given that Government has set aside additional funding for social development-related purposes and that it has embarked on a campaign, along with civil society, to ensure that more people who should receive grants actually do so.

The UDM supports this Vote, but Government should realise that if the performance of this department is not turned around immediately, it is creating a long-term socio-economic disaster that will cost future generations dearly. The window of opportunity to act is fast disappearing. Mr D C MABENA: Madam Speaker, hon members, we are all faced with and challenged by a new enemy that knows no boundaries, feelings, emotions and sympathy, and has no mercy towards the most vulnerable, our future, the children.

At present HIV/Aids and poverty are our main enemies. According to research approximately 1 500 people are infected daily. One of the most disturbing factors of this scourge is that it has reached pandemic proportions, and that it is the economically active group which is most affected and is at risk.

How do we as parliamentarians respond in the spirit of Vukuzenzele? Other companies have embraced this initiative by putting into operation effective policies on HIV/Aids that ensure better management of the disease in their workplace. These policies are championed in partnership with unions and include the training of workers.

How do we understand the role that social development should play in an integrated approach to HIV/Aids through the development implementation support programme? Our Government is committed to fight and eradicate poverty through developing, managing and co-ordinating income-generating projects. Fifty million rands have been allocated in 2002 and 2003 for HIV/Aids, compared to R12,5 million in the 2001-2002 Budget. We should thank the Minister for this drastic increase. Ten percent of the money will go towards the appointment of HIV/Aids co-ordinators and R46 million will be divided across nine provinces for home-based care. This will also strengthen availability of integrated programmes for prevention and coping with the impact of the disease. There are 466 existing and identified home- based care and community-based care projects. Of these projects, 330 receive no Government funding. However, 300 home-based care and community- based projects are targeted for training and improving food security.

Kusukela enyakeni umbuso wabantu wathoma ukuberega, izinto ezinengi zatjhuguluka neempilo zabantu zabangcono khulu. Ngokuba lombuso ufana nesikhukhukazi esitlhogomela amadzinyani wawo woke. Kulonyaka uMongameli wenarha ekulumeni yakhe uze nejima okuthiwa nguvuka uzenzele, elipha abantu igunya lokuzinikezela nokuberegisana nombuso ekwenzeni iimpilo zabo zibengcono kunekuthomeni.

Ugadangele khulu ekulweni nesifo sentumba ntonga, umtlhago nendlala. [Ihlombe.] Nani bodla ulale phumani engutjeni nilise ukuzifihla ngomuno. Fakani isandla kulokho enikwaziko. Jabula mphimbo uzogwinya nawe mtlhago obukade ubhoda amahlalo wethu ubhabhile begodu usengozi. [Ihlombe.] Ngombana enyakeni ka-2001-2002 Budget umbuso wafaka imali elingana neR50 million esikhwameni se-poverty eradication. Ku-Budget ka-2002-2003 umbuso ufake imali engange R100 million injongo yombuso kukuthi enye inxenye yemali isize abantu ngokudla-poverty eradication. Enye isize umphakathi kumaphrojekhti wezandla njengokuthunga, ukwenza uburotho nokhunye okunengi abantu abangaziphilisa ngakho ngokuzenzela-poverty eradication. (Translation of Ndebele paragraphs follows.)

[Since the year the Government of the people started working, many things changed and the lives of the people improved. This is so because this Government is like a hen taking care of all its chicks. This year the President of the country, in his address, came up with a campaign called Vukuzenzele. This campaign encourages people to offer their services and work together with the Government to improve people’s lives.

The Government is determined to fight the Aids disease. [Applause.] Those who are lazy must also come out of hiding and contribute what they know. People must be happy, because the poverty that has been part of our lives is now in trouble. [Applause.] This is because in the 2001-02 Budget the Government put aside an amount of R50 million for poverty eradication. In the 2002-03 Budget the Government put aside R100 million so that part of the amount could help people alleviate poverty. The remaining amount will help people with projects such as sewing, baking and many other things on which people can survive.]

The impact of HIV/Aids is felt in poorer communities. Often the older people, grandfathers and grandmothers, are left to care for the families who have no income after the death of breadwinners. Therefore, Government should be very clear about what kind of support is available to such families, and here we talk about clear information on child support grants, disability grants for the people who have full-blown aids and services to child-headed households. We also pay tribute to organisations such as churches or faith-based organisations for their role in assisting the communities, because Government cannot do this work alone. We are grateful for the spirit of volunteerism. This year, as the ANC, we want to see that volunteerism is strengthened.

Umbuso wenza koke okusemandleni ukunikela nokuthuthukisa abantu bawo nathi kuqakathekile khulu ukuthi sibambisane nawo ukuze ijima lika vukuzenzele liberege, kuvuswa ezivusako. Ukhongolo uyayisekela ivowudu yebhajethi le. [The Government has done everything it could in giving to and in developing its people and it is also very important for us to work together with the Government so that the Vukuzenzele campaign can work - help comes to those who help themselves. The Congress supports this budget Vote.]

As the House will be in recess, my appeal to all members is that we must not politicise the issue of HIV and Aids. Let us always remember that, firstly, people come first; secondly, that we as members should take the lead in encouraging and assisting our communities in self-help projects; and lastly, that we embrace the spirit of volunteerism and Vukuzenzele. [Applause.]

Adv Z L MADASA: Madam Speaker, I have been asked by Mrs Southgate to deliver this speech on her behalf.

Our population is facing great social challenges, especially with regard to HIV/Aids, child welfare and unemployment. It is estimated that this country has at least 22 million people living in poverty who on average survive on R144 per month. The ACDP welcomes the increase in the pensions and child support grants, yet we fail to understand why the Government cannot commit itself to a basic income grant. The ACDP does not primarily see the basic income grant as merely supplementing the income of the poor, but as an investment in the long-term stability of our society. The ACDP supports the call for a basic income grant in the form of food coupons that will allow people to buy staple food such as bread, milk, etc. Let us remember that the poor do not calculate their budgetary needs according to economic indicators, but according to what food they have on the table.

Child development is an equally important factor that needs our urgent attention. The moral degeneration of our society is causing major trauma to our children. The increase of abuse of our children will leave a legacy that will impact negatively on the future of this country, unless child crimes such as child rape are dealt with.

The Ministry of Social Development has devised a ten-point plan which includes rebuilding the family, community and social relations. All interested stakeholders must support this plan, as the ACDP does. The moral regeneration of our families and youth cannot be budgeted for only within the economic framework.

The ACDP has always stated in the House that the family is a primary building block of a stable society. Family values do not support the pornographic exploitation of women or uncounselled abortions on demand without parents’ consent. The Government must avoid the contradiction of passing laws which undermine family values while at the same time calling moral summits. The ACDP believes that if we are serious about family values we will respect basic human needs, rights and responsibilities.

With respect to administrative ability, greater emphasis is needed from the department to assist provinces to improve on their capacity to spend their budgets earmarked for HIV/Aids and social grants. We must remember that the ultimate objective of the Government must not be the creation of dependency but the development of sustainable independence.

Ms E GANDHI: Madam Speaker, hon Minister, hon members and comrades, I am going to focus on that section of the Budget which is the smallest, ie social service transformation and rights advocacy in respect of children, youth and families.

The budget for this sector has received a relatively substantial increase, from R10,9 million to R14 million in the current year, and R15,5 million in the 2004-2005 Budget. This programme is divided into four subprogrammes. My focus is on two subprogrammes, as already indicated.

The budget for setting of service standards has been increased from R1 million last year to R3,1 million in the current year, and will increase to R3,5 million in the following year. The budget for the programme on advocacy in respect of children, youth and families shows an increase, from R4,2 million to nearly R5,8 million, and will be increased further to R6,1 million in the following year. In addition, there are sums allocated to provinces for this programme. So, clearly, these two programmes are on track. What does this mean for the country? The cynics can say that this Government show scant regard for the plight of our children. They would cite nondelivery, according to them, of antiretroviral drugs, the absence of basic income grants, the rising cost of living and perhaps the nondelivery of grants to some families. Perhaps all these factors do contribute to the situation our children find themselves in.

However, we say pointing fingers do not do anything much. We need to remember, firstly, that what we see today is the result of the systematic deprivation, dehumanisation, breakdown in family life and brutalisation of our community and children over hundreds of years. This system was further maintained by a system of social welfare services which encouraged people to accept their position, to accept their dependency on Government grants and welfare services, based on the Western model of system maintenance and individualism. We see, for instance, in the West that almost every individual is dependent on a psychiatrist, psychologist or social worker. This is because they are born within a system which creates a dependency syndrome. Perhaps one needs to think how people in non-Western countries continue to survive without seeing the face of a psychiatrist, social worker or psychologist. This does not mean we do not value the work of psychiatrists, psychologists and social workers.

What we need in this country are three things. Firstly, we need the total mobilisation of all sectors of our community and our resources to work towards the transformation of our society, in order to restore families and the family values of love, respect, humanity and dignity in the spirit of Vukuzenzele. I want to welcome here the allocation of time for the moral regeneration and volunteerism programmes that have been budgeted for, and I hope that there are some funds allocated to these programmes as well.

Secondly, I want to say that there is a need for the transformation of the social work profession, so that we will have social workers who would be able to empower individuals and communities with information on vital issues, such as the various programmes of local government which impact on the lives of the community, the resources offered by various Government departments and NGOs, how to access these resources, information on the viability of projects, and how to draw up business plans and set up small businesses. Social workers also need to help individuals and communities to become self-sufficient, and to inculcate communal values and communal interdependence.

This would undoubtedly require new vocabularies, new textbooks, knowledge about the areas of operation, lists of resources available in these areas, information on the economic activities in the areas, key development nodes, and training new disciplines such as economics, political science, business management and so on. I hope that the department, in setting standards and evaluating programmes, will bear these principles in mind.

The disparity in the level of remuneration of social workers in the public and private sectors, and the disparity in the remuneration between social workers and other professionals with similar academic background, is indeed a worrying factor and does need attention.

At national level, the department has increased its budget from R5,9 million to R6,3 million this year and R7,1 million in the following year. The allocation to the NDA has also been increased from R92,6 million last year to R96,7 million this year and R201,2 million in the following year, and R107 million in the budget of the year 2004-05. We urge the NDA and the Lotteries Allocation Authority to look into better and streamlined subsidisation of important work that is being done in the community.

Thirdly, a comprehensive code for children and juvenile offenders will help in improving services to the growing number of children requiring protection. I look forward to seeing the Bill which the Minister has spoken about. I know that funds have been set aside for the setting up of a child protection register, and hope that there will be funds available if the new comprehensive Bill requires the setting up of a child sex offenders register and other recommendations that may flow from the legislation. I would like to thank the director-general and her team for the quick, efficient and effective response in the baby Tsepang matter.

Finally, it is important to remember that, since 1994, this Government has ratified several international instruments on the rights of children and women, and has entrenched these in the Constitution and in several laws. Yet, the incidence of child and women abuse continues. This raises the question whether a rights culture means licence to do whatever one pleases. I believe that a rights culture can only be effective if we are prepared to exercise self-control, take on responsibility and become dependable.

Clearly, what is urgently needed is a transformation of our public, professional services and of our society. We need to have service providers who are caring, patient, dedicated, efficient and prepared to go beyond the call of duty. The community needs to become serious about its responsibility and needs to be involved in community programmes as volunteers in the spirit of VukuZenzele and, in Mother Teresa’s words: ``Let us find our own Culcutta in our own back yards’’. [Applause.]

Mrs M A SEECO: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the UCDP, we appreciate the fact that this enormous Department of Social Development intends to improve the quality of lives of South African society.

With regard to population and development, it will provide from the poverty relief allocation, which increases from R52 million to R101 million. This will stand our people in good stead. Poverty is rife in large parts of this country, and that is why we lament that more funds have to be made available.

Allocation for HIV/Aids increased significantly from R13,4 million to R15 million. This scourge has to be fought with all our might. People have to be educated. It is common knowledge that, invariably, the poorer people are always affected by diseases, and this killer disease is no exception.

The department has objectives such as the progressive realisation of children’s social and economic rights, empowering young, old, and disabled people as well as women. This department has six programmes which make significant progress in improving the accessibility and efficiency of the social security system.

We congratulate the Minister of the department for considering Vote 18. We only hope that there will be greater oversight in provincial departments, as some do not live up to expectations. They either fail to pay in time or fail completely. The restructuring of the department and the building of internal capacity will enable it to deliver. Therefore, we support the Vote.

Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, the MF supports the aim of the Department of Social Development to contribute to improving the quality of life of the poor, the vulnerable and the marginalised within South African society through an integrated and caring system of social development grants and services.

The MF finds the aims and objectives of the department to be well-selected and to cover the crucial circumstances that hinder and sink development. The priorities put forward by the department such as improving social security, instituting a pragmatic approach to poverty relief, enhancing the response to HIV/Aids, transformation of the welfare service and improving the functioning of the department is supported. It is noted that for these priorities to be met successfully, it will need the assistance and co- operation of all parties.

The MF views this department as the people’s department and sees their working with the public as a great means to achievement. The programmes of the department and challenges do not stop here. The linkage with other clusters deposits the importance and need for this department to be carried effectively and efficiently, which is extremely pressurising.

The MF supports the budget allocated to this department, but it is concerned by the reduction in the allocation for poverty relief. That is one of the most crippling problems our society faces. It may be understood that the resources are minimal and the budget may be tight, but a cut rather to administration than poverty relief may be viewed to be more viable. Unfortunately, monetary assistance is a key factor, and the MF understands the pressure of allocating monies to the various sectors due to the varying degree of need and desperation. The MF supports the Social Development Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Mrs M P COETZEE-KASPER: Madam Speaker, colleagues and Minister …

… toe die ministeriële komitee oor die verwaarlosing en mishandeling van bejaardes verlede jaar hul verslag bekend gestel het, het die verslag geheet: Mothers and Fathers of the Nation. Hiermee wil ek graag Machabeng, Virginia, Melodie en Bronville se oumense welkom heet. [Applous.] Mama Moeliti wat op die galery sit is 96 jaar. Sy het nou nog nie ‘n huis van haar eie nie. Sy kry ‘n pensioen en is tevrede, maar sy wag vir ‘n huis. Sy is 96 jaar oud. Dan het ons nog drie Griekwas ook: Me Jahrs en Oupa Lukas van die Vrystaat. Dis die opregte Griekwas. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Die bevinding van die komitee het dit wel laat lyk asof ons ons moeders en vaders vergeet het. Hoekom? Hulle kry nie die respek en eerbied wat ons hulle skuld nie. Hulle geld word van hulle afgevat. Hulle word misbruik. Hulle word eenkant toe gestoot en hulle word selfs verkrag. Vandag doen ek ‘n beroep op ons hele nasie, as ons die maatskaplike ontwikkeling van al ons mense as ernstig beskou, kan ons nie bekostig om ons oumense te laat voel hulle word weggestoot en vergeet nie. Dan gaan ons dit nie regkry om te reageer op President Mbeki se oproep dat ons opstaan en saamwerk aan ons toekoms nie. En waar het ons ‘n beter voorbeeld nodig van die bydrae wat ouer mense kan lewer vir ons nasie as oud-president Mandela. As ons kyk na die deel van die Begroting wat op ouer mense gemik is, is daar twee sake waarop ons moet fokus. Die eerste saak is die geld wat in die vorm van ouderdomspensioene aan ons mense betaal word. Die tweede saak is die geld wat beskikbaar is vir dienste aan ouer mense. Hierna wil ek later terugkeer.

In 1994 was die ouderdomspensioene R390 per maand. Dit word vanjaar van R570 na R620 verhoog. Dit beteken ‘n verhoging van R50 per maand. Die verhoging tree op 1 April in werking. Hierdie verhoging is uiters belangrik omdat ons weet dat ouderdomspensioene nie slegs die een ou mens aan die lewe hou nie, maar eintlik vir die hele gesin brood op die tafel sit.

Omdat die pensioen vir baie gemeenskappe ‘n lewenslyn is - hele gemeenskappe se ekonomie hang daarvan af - is dit noodsaaklik dat ons bejaardes elke maand sonder moeite hulle pensioen moet kan trek. Ons het te dikwels in die onlangse verlede gehoor van oumense wat met groot moeite teen voordag by die betaalpunt opdaag, net om te hoor dat daar nie vir hulle ‘n pensioen is nie - sonder verduideliking, sonder goeie rede. Daar is twee sulke oumense wat die afgelope ses maande sukkel om hul pensioene te kry.

Oumense moet ook soms die hele dag in die oopte wag vir amptenare of werknemers van een van die betaalkontrakteurs om met hul geld op te daag - sonder skuiling, sonder kos of water, sonder toiletgeriewe. In my provinsie alleen het amper die helfte van alle betaalpunte geen sitplekke vir die pensioenarisse nie, en ‘n derde van die betaalpunte het geen toilette nie.

‘n Mens het begrip daarvoor dat die Regering nie alles oornag kan voorsien nie, maar ons moet daadwerklik iets hieraan doen. ‘n Deel van die kontrakte wat die provinsiale regering met kontrakteurs gesluit het, bepaal dat hulle moet bydra tot die opgradering van betaalpunte. Word hierdie bepaling nagekom en volg die provinsiale regering dit voldoende op? Wat doen ons as dit nie gebeur nie? Ek vertrou dat die geld wat aan die departement toegewys is vir die verbetering van pensioendienste juis hierdie soort probleme sal aanspreek.

Ons sien ook daarna uit dat die amptenare verantwoordelik vir die administrasie van pensioene sal baat by opleiding in mensgerigtheid. Ek doen ‘n beroep op die Minister: Ons kan nie oneerlike, lui of korrupte amptenare bekostig nie. Ons kan dit nie meer doen nie; ons moet optree. [Applous.]

Die Minister het reeds verwys na die R2 miljard wat in hierdie Begroting toegeken is vir die terugbetaling van pensioene aan diegene wat as gevolg van administratiewe tekortkomings oor die afgelope vier jaar nie hul volle pensioene ontvang het nie. Ons praat hier van mense wat langer as drie maande moes wag nadat hulle aansoek gedoen het voordat die pensioenvoordele betaal is, of mense wat van die register verwyder is as gevolg van ‘n fout in die rekenaarstelsel.

Ons doen ‘n beroep op al ons mense in die provinsies om na vore te kom indien hulle onder hierdie groep val en om hul regmatige terugbetaling op te eis. Ofisi tsa di teng Virginia, e yang teng. [My kanoor is beskikbaar in Virginia, u kan daarheen gaan.]

Maar ons moet ook weet dat daar mense is wat gaan probeer om oneerlik te wees en die oumense uit te buit of om hul geld van hulle af te neem. Daarom vra ons dat die departement duidelike boodskappe sal uitstuur aan alle pensioenarisse oor die manier waarop die geld uitbetaal sal word. Ons vra gemeenskappe ook om waaksaam te wees en toe te sien dat die bejaardes, van wie vele baie oud en swak is, nie misbruik word net om hul geld in die hande te kry nie. Ons vra ook dat die banke die dienstefooie wat hulle van pensioenarisse aftrek heeltemal sal afskaf sodat meer bejaardes die veilige opsie kan gebruik om hul pensioene direk in ‘n bankrekening inbetaal te kry. [Applous.]

Die uitwerking van HIV/Vigs op ons gemeenskap beteken dat ouer mense se rol in die familie en die gemeenskap vinnig verander. Al hoe meer oumas en oupas moet na hul kinders en kleinkinders omsien omdat hul kinders te siek geword het om te werk en na hulself om te sien. Dit plaas al hoe meer druk op die bejaardes se pensioene en kragte, waar hulle vir kinders en kleinkinders moet sorg.

Ons moet ook seker maak dat die bejaardes volle toegang het tot inligting oor watter staatshulp beskikbaar is en hoe hulle daarvoor moet aansoek doen. Daar is veral onduidelikheid oor wanneer daar aansoek gedoen kan word om ‘n ongeskiktheidstoelae vir iemand wat ``full-blown’’ Vigs het, en ons weet dat dit juis dié stadium is wat mense die meeste sorg nodig het.

Daarom vra ons dat die deel van die Begroting wat toegeken word vir dienste aan bejaardes drasties vermeerder word, sodat die baie organisasies wat in die gemeenskap bestaan, en wat die las op die ouer garde moet verlig, of wat deur bejaardes self gestig word, hul werk effektief kan doen. Ons praat dikwels van die waarde van die werk wat vrywilligers doen, maar ons ondersteun hulle nie voldoende nie. Te dikwels hoor ons dat geld bewillig is, maar dit kom net nooit by die kleiner organisasies uit nie, of by dié wat eerlik en opreg is met die behulpsaamheid en bevoegdheid van hul vrywillige dienste aan ons eerste burgers. Ek pleit vandag: Moet dit nie onmoontlik maak vir klein organisasies met min geskoolde lede nie. Hulle help ons moeders en vaders om hulp te bekom. Hulle doen waardevolle werk. Hulle verdien ons steun. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[When the ministerial committee investigating the neglect and abuse of the elderly published their report last year, it was entitled: Mothers and Fathers of the Nation. I would now like to welcome the elderly of Machabeng, Virginia, Melodie and Bronville. [Applause.] Mama Moeliti, who is on the gallery, is 96 years old. She still does not have a home of her own. She gets a pension and she is satisfied, but she is waiting for a house. She is 96 years old. Then there are three Griquas: Ms Jahrs and Grandfather Lukas from the Free State. These are the real Griquas. [Interjections.]

The findings of the committee in fact made it look as if we have forgotten our fathers and mothers. Why? They are not receiving the respect and honour that we owe them. Their money is taken from them. They are abused. They are shoved aside and even raped. I am making an appeal to our whole nation, if we take the social development of all our people seriously, we cannot afford to make our elderly feel as if they are shoved aside and forgotten. Then we shall not succeed in reacting to President Mbeki’s plea that we arise and work together at our future. And where do we find a better example of the contribution that older people can make in our nation than former President Mandela.

When we look at the part of the Budget that is directed at older people, there are two matters on which we must focus. The first matter concerns the money that is paid to our people in the form of old age pensions. The second matter concerns the money that is available for services to older people. I would like to come back to this later.

In 1994 the old age pensions were R390 per month. It is being increased from R570 to R620 this year. This means an increase of R50 per month. The increase comes into operation on 1 April. This increase is extremely important, because we know that old age pensions do not only keep one elderly person, but also put bread on the table for the whole family.

Because the pension is a lifeline in many communities - the economy of entire communities depend on it - it is essential that our elderly should be able to draw their pensions every month without any trouble. We have heard too often in the recent past of elderly people who arrive at the paypoint at the crack of dawn, after going to a great deal of trouble, only to hear that there is no pension for them - without any explanation, without any good reason. There are two such elderly people who have been struggling for the past six months to get their pensions.

Sometimes the elderly have to wait out in the open the whole day for officials or employees of one of the payment contractors to arrive with their money - without shelter, without food or water, without sanitation facilities. In my province alone almost half of the paypoints have no seats for the pensioners, and a third of the paypoints have no toilets.

One understands that the Government cannot provide everything overnight, but we really have to do something about this. A part of the contracts that provincial governments concluded with contractors provided that they had to contribute to the upgrading of paypoints. Is this provision being complied with and is provincial government adequately following up on this? What do we do where this does not take place? I trust that the money allocated to the department for the improvement of pension services resolves precisely this kind of problem.

We are also looking forward to officials responsible for the administration of pensions gaining from undergoing training in people-skills. I am making an appeal to the Minister: We cannot afford dishonest, lazy or corrupt officials. We can no longer do this; we must act! [Applause.]

The Minister has already made reference to the R2 billion that has been allocated in this Budget for paying back pensions to those who, owing to administrative shortcomings, have not received pensions for the past four years. We are talking here about people who had to wait more than three months after applying before their pension benefits were paid, about people who were removed from the register owing to a mistake in the computer system.

We are making an appeal to all our people in the provinces to step forward if they fall in this group and to claim their lawful back-pay. Ofisi tsa ka eli teng Virginia, e yang teng. [My offices are available in Virginia, you can go there.]

But we must also know that there are people who are going to try to be dishonest and exploit the elderly or take their money from them. That is why we are asking that the department will send out clear messages to all pensioners regarding the manner in which the money will be paid. We are asking communities also to be vigilant and to ensure that the aged, of whom many are very old and weak, are not exploited simply to obtain their money. We are also asking banks completely to abolish service fees that they deduct from pensioners so that more pensioners will use the safe option of having their pensions paid directly into their bank accounts. [Applause.]

The effect of HIV/Aids on our community means that the role of older people in the community is changing rapidly. An increasing number of grandfathers and grandmothers must take care of their children and grandchildren, because their children have become too ill to work and take care of themselves. This places increasing pressure on the pensions and strength of the elderly where they have to take care of their children and grandchildren.

We must also ensure that the elderly receive full access to information as to what state aid is available and how to apply for it. There is a particular lack of clarity about when application can be made for a disability grant for someone with full-blown Aids, and we know that it is specifically during this stage that people need the most care.

Therefore we are asking that the part of the Budget allocated for services to the elderly should be increased dramatically, so that the many organisations in the community that have to relieve the burden of the older generation, or that have been established by the elderly themselves, can do their work effectively. We often talk about the value of the work that is performed by volunteers, but we do not support them adequately. Too often we hear that money has been appropriated, but it never reaches the smaller organisations, or those who are honest and sincere in their assistance to and competence of their voluntary services to our foremost citizens. I make the plea today: Do not make it impossible for small organisations with few learned members. They help our mothers and fathers to attain help. They do valuable work. They deserve our support.]

Old people should not only be seen as recipients, but also as people who contribute to rebuilding our society and communities by getting involved in projects. I would appreciate it if our First Lady, Mrs Zanele Mbeki, could come down and protect our elderly people. [Applause.]

Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Madam Speaker, the poor in our society lack the necessary organisational structures that can champion their cause. In most cases they support organisations of other classes in society.

Firstly, in order for the poor to determine their own destiny, they need resources to build organisations of their own, with their own leadership, power and decision-making processes. Funds allocated in this Budget will go a long way towards achieving this. Secondly, in order for the poor to control their own organisations adequately, they need education. To Azapo every little activity or resource that lead to the enhancement of our people’s lives is always an important step, and we support it.

The strategic challenge facing the Department of Social Development is to address poverty and contribute towards its eradication. Azapo believes that in doing so the department should promote consultation, dialogue and sharing of developmental experiences with the poor communities and the many NGOs that operate in this field.

The time for poverty alleviation is over. We should talk more about poverty eradication. Azapo’s problem, however, is that more often that not officials in this department do not use these resources for what they are intended. Some officials do, in fact, pocket some of these funds that are needed by the most desperate poor. This state of affairs should be drastically addressed. Azapo supports this Vote.

Mnu B M SOLO: Somlomo, uNgqongqoshe ohloniphekileyo womNyango wezeNhlalakahle kanye noNgqongqoshe abakhona lapha, amalunga ePhalamende ahloniphekile nabantu abadala abazozimazisa lo mcimbi, isabelo sezimali somNyango wezeNhlalakahle esabelwe abantulayo yiso esinikeza ithemba kwabahluphekileyo, kwabahola impesheni, kwabakhubazekile nasezinganeni ezidinga usizo nezithembele kuHulumeni.

Kusukela ezinkulumeni zikaMongameli wezwe laseNingizimu Afrika nasezinkulumeni zikaNgqongqoshe womNyango wezeziMali, okwakuyinkulumo eyayilindwe yisizwe sonkana. Nembala le nkulumo yesaBiwomali izokwazi nokho ukubhekana nobumpofu nendlala esibhekene nayo.

Siyazi sonke ukuthi indlala yande kanjani kuleli laseNingizimu Afrika. Ngakho-ke sonke sidinga ukuthi sibambe iqhaza ekulweni nale nkinga ukuze sonke futhi sinqobe. Kufanele singakhohlwa ukuthi iningi lezinkinga ladalwa yinqubomgomo yombuso wengcindezelo.

Ngithanda ukucaphuna amazwi kaMongameli lapho ethi khona. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr B M SOLO: Madam Speaker, hon Minister of Social Development and other Ministers who are present here, hon members and people who have come to attend this occasion, the budget of the Department of Social Development, about what has been given to the poor people, is the one that provides hope to the poor, the pensioners, the disabled and to children that need help and who rely on Government.

It comes out in the speeches by the President of South Africa and the speeches by the Minister of Finance, speeches that are awaited by the whole nation. Of course, this Budget speech will be able to deal with the poverty and hardship that were are facing.

We all know how widespread poverty is in South Africa. Therefore, we all need to play a role in fighting this problem so that we will all win. We should not forget that most of the problems were created by apartheid.

I would like to quote the words of the President when he said:]

Of decisive importance to the millions of our people and the future of our county, as we meet here today; the central question we will have to answer, at the end of the day, is whether what we are doing as the legislature, the executive, the judiciary, the fourth estate and civil society, is helping to lift, from the shoulders of our people, the intolerable burden of poverty and underdevelopment.

I believe that this budget is part of a realistic attempt to answer that question in a meaningful and realistic way. Ours is to commit ourselves to taking up the challenge by ensuring that the provisions of the various programmes of this budget are implemented effectively.

As a people, we need to mobilise churches and civil society and rally them behind the building of a caring society, a society that cares for the aged, the disabled, the children and the poor who are wretched, powerless and who lack the resources to fend for themselves, a society that wants peace and prosperity with values and norms that are beyond reproach, a society that is stable and at peace with itself. Gradually we need to be seen pushing back the burden of poverty. We therefore have to lend a hand in the national effort to build a better life for all, inspired by the call of Vukuzenzele. It is based on the above that this Government, led by the ANC, has come up with specific programmes to fight poverty, and we expect all South Africans, from all walks of life, to participate in these programmes.

Hon members might have heard that tomorrow, in Stellenbosch, the provincial Department of Housing is also lending a hand to deal with one critical aspect, the ownership of houses. The MEC for Housing in the Western Cape will be handing over the keys of a house to an old lady of about 106 years of age. [Applause.] This is the first time ever that this has happened. This is an effort to deal realistically with poverty. We can imagine that that old woman, all these years, has been staying in a property that she never owned.

Kungakho-ke sithi sonke kufanele sihlangane sisebenzisane ukulwa nobumpofu, sibone ukuthi abantu bethu bahlala ezindaweni ezifanelekile, okungezabo.

Ngiyethemba ukuthi lesi saBiwomali sizoba yingxenye yokuphenduleka ngendlela efanele kwemithandazo yabahluphekileyo, inkani nje uma singazimisela futhi sizinikele ekusebenzeni kanzima ukufeza amaphupho esaBiwomali kuzo zonke izinqubo.

Kuyodingeka sigqugquzele umphakathi wonkana futhi sibafundise ngokunakekelwa komphakathi. Uma singakwazi ukuhlanganyela nomphakathi wonkana futhi singabandlululi siyakwazi ukusiza abakhubazekile, abadala kanye nezingane eziyizintandane ngenxa yenhlupheko nokweswela umnotho wemvelo. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[That is why we say that we all need to join together to fight poverty and to see to it that our people are living in decent places that belong to them.

I hope that this budget will be an appropriate answer to the prayers of the poor, as long as we will commit and dedicate ourselves to working hard to fulfil the dreams of the budget in all procedures.

We will need to encourage the whole community and educate them about caring for the public. We can join together with the whole community without discriminating against anyone. We will be able to assist disabled people, older people and children who are orphans because they do not have natural wealth.]

Ngeli xesha ndithanda ukuba ndibonise banzi ukuba luthetha ntoni olu Hlahlo Lwabiwo-mali luphambi kwethu? Olu Hlahlo Lwabiwo-mali luzama kangangoko ukuncedana nabantu abadala, abakhubazekileyo, abantwana kwanabo bangenamali yokuba baziphilise, ngakumbi abo bahlala kwiindawo ezibizwa ngokuba kusemaphandleni, ndawo ezo umbutho wethu i-ANC uzimisele ukuba uguqule iimeko zawo.

UMongameli utshilo kwiNtetho yakhe ejoliswe kwiSizwe kulo nyaka ukuba uRhulumente uza kuzama ukunciphisa inqanaba lobuhlwempu. Ngoko olu Hlahlo Lwabiwo-mali luphambi kwethu luzama ukusibonisa loo mizamo.

Siyabona ukuba imali ithe yanyuswa ukubonelela abo bafumana inkamnkam. Njengoko sonke sisazi, ukunyuswa kwemali yenkamnkam akuzi kulinda de kube yinyanga kaJulayi, koko le mali iza kufumaneka ukususela ngomhla woku-1 kuApreli. Masikhangele ukuba yabiwe njani le mali.

Abantu abafumana inkamnkam, imali yabo iya kunyuswa ngama-50 eerandi, isuka kuma-570 eerandi iye kutsho kuma-620 eerandi. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Nabakhubazekileyo ngokunjalo.

Kwakolu Hlahlo Lwabiwo-mali siyabona ukuba abo banonophela abantwana, ngakumbi abakhubazekileyo abangakwazi kuzenzela nto, nabo imali yabo iya kunyuswa ngesixa esifanayo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] Abantwana abaziinkedama, mhlawumbi abanye babo abanganonotshelwa ngendlela efanelekileyo, nabo imali abayizuzayo iya kunyuka ngama-40 eerandi, ukususela kuma-410 eerandi ukuya kuma-450 eerandi.

Inkamnkam yabantwana nayo iza kunyuka ngama-20 eerandi - ndaba ezo abazithakazelele kakhulu abantwana. Ndiyaziva ezi zinto zithethwa apha, kodwa abantwana ebendithetha nabo phaya ecaweni ngeCawe bavuye kakhulu; bafuna nokuqonda ukuba ngaba ngenene lama-20 eerandi akhona na abangathi ngawo bathenge ngokubekela iimpahla abangazinxiba ebusika. [Kwaqhwatywa.]

Konke oku kungenxa yeenkqubo zombutho i-ANC nokuzinikela kwayo ekuqinisekiseni ukuba abonke bantu bayabonelelwa. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Now I want to explain further about what is meant by this budget here in front of us. Its primary aim is to help the old people, the disabled, and those without the money to survive, more especially the people of the rural areas, whose lives the ANC is keen to change.

The President has mentioned in his state of the nation address that the Government would try to reduce the level of poverty. Therefore, this Budget Vote speech is trying to make us aware of such efforts that are being made.

We also observed that the pensioners’ pension has been increased to help them. As we already know, this increase will not be delayed until July, but that therefore it will start operating as from 1 April. Let us look at how this budget has been distributed.

The money of those who receive a pension, as well as the disabled, will be increased by R50, from R570 to R620. [Applause].

In this very same budget, we also observe that the money of the care- givers, more especially of the disabled, will be raised by the same amount. [Applause.] The orphan children’s grant and grants of those who do not receive proper care will increase by R40, from R410 to R450.

Children’s grants will increase by R20; this news received a warm welcome from the children. I do hear the things that are being said here, but when I was talking to some of the children at church on Sunday, they wanted to know the reality about the availability of this R20, so that they could laybye clothes that they could wear in winter. [Applause.]

All this is because of the efforts and concerns of the ANC to ensure that everybody is taken into consideration.]

Due to the sound economic policy of the ANC Government and its commitment, we are now able to provide more in a very substantial way. It is with pride that I mention that these increases have been brought forward from July to 1 April 2002. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr M L DA CAMARA: Madam Speaker, it is not inappropriate that the budget debate on social development is the first. If this is the signal that fighting poverty is the Government’s highest priority, then the DA welcomes it.

However, the true test of Government’s commitment will be in its delivery and should be reflected in this budget. The Minister needs to be commended on his efforts to improve the quality of delivery in his department, and particularly on the improvement of the quality of grant payout points. This is not to say that payout points have reached a satisfactory level by any stretch of the imagination, but there are indications of improvements that have been made. The DA certainly hopes that this will continue for the sake of South Africa’s most vulnerable, and I was happy to hear the Minister saying that this would accelerate. I wish him well.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Thank you.

Mr M L DA CAMARA: Madam Speaker, when measuring the hon the Minister’s commitment, the DP was pleased that the Minister had announced the establishment of the Taylor Committee to look into social security reform in 2000. However, we, like the rest of the nation, are hugely disappointed to see that the commission’s report, which was due in November, is yet to be released.

While we await the outcome of the report, millions of people fall through the cracks of the social security net. We need only to think of children above the age of seven, who do not receive the child support grant, as pointed out by the hon Kalyan earlier, or of the many unemployed South Africans to whom a basic income grant would mean the difference between going to bed hungry or going to bed full, or of those caregivers who need the foster care grant to ensure that they can look after their charges.

These and other issues desperately depend on the report being released to Parliament soon. There are many in our country who look to the state for some sort of assistance. The very faith in our democratic dispensation is dependent on what material support we can offer them to relieve their everyday suffering. We dare not betray that faith.

We are all acutely aware that the longer it takes to release this report, there more unlikely it is that its recommendations will be included in next year’s budget. Procrastination in this regard is tantamount to prolonging misery for millions of our compatriots. Hon Minister, when can South Africans expect the release of the report? How much longer must the poor be kept in limbo? The people are dying to know. I hope that for once the Government will prove me wrong when I say the ANC Government is failing in its duty to alleviate the suffering of South Africa’s poor. [Interjections.]

The hon Ken Andrew, as far back as 2000, raised the issue of a basic income grant. Allow me to use this opportunity to do so again. Before the hon the Minister of Finance - he is not in the House - dismisses this issue as populist nonsense, let me remind him that he and his party ran on an antipoverty ticket, not on a ``pro-fighter jet’’ ticket. When the Government of a poverty-stricken nation such as ours receives a tax windfall, as this one did, it is neither unrealistic nor populist to expect the consideration of a basic income grant. It is inconceivable that this Government has not done that. This says volumes about the Government’s commitment to fighting poverty. It is time that this Government deals with poverty with some urgency, in fact with the same urgency as that with which it dealt with the arms deal, and not with the complacency that has characterised delivery for seven years. This will be the greatest demonstration of its commitment to fighting poverty.

The hon Gandhi says we should not point fingers, but regrettably there is something we can point to - the lack of good delivery. I wish the Minister well and the DA supports his efforts, we just hope that the rest of his colleagues will do the same. [Applause.]

Ms N M TSHEOLE: Madam Speaker, our parents up in the gallery, hon members, the Minister and …

… bagaetsho, ke a roroma. Ke roromiswa ke boitumelo le tsholofelo ya tse di tlang ka moso. Fela pele ke tsewa ke maikutlo a boitumelo, ke batla gore fa re bua re le mo Palamenteng, a re se ke ra itira magapu ra phantsha fela. A re bueng re itse gore rona batho ba re leng mo Tlhabololong ya Loago, re emetse karolo ya setshaba sa gabo rona se se leng bokoakoa - bana ba ba tswang mo malapeng a a tlhokang a bodiidi, bana bao ba thuntsweng ke borrabo, batsofadi, batho ba ba tlhokang, ba ba sa tshwaneng le rona ba ka Setswana re ba bitsang digole, fa ke fosetsa maloko a a tlotlegang a tla intshwarela. A re bueng re itse gore mathata a bona ga se a re ka yang dipolotiking ka ona. Ga re bue dipolotiki, re bua go thusa setshaba. Re bua go aga setshaba. A re se ke ra nne re bua fela o ka re re kwa setediamong. Ke bua jaana ke lebisitse mo go se se builweng ke Rre Da Camara, Mohumagatsana Kalyan le Rre Mokono. A re ke re tlhopheng mantswe fa re bua le batho ba bo rona ba ba sokolang, re se ke ra phantsha fela re itse gore re totobetsa ntho e e tutetseng. Boladu fa o bo tobetsa bo a fisa. A re ba utlweleng botlhoko, re se ke ra nne o ka re ga re na maikutlo.

Ke ne ke utlweletse Mohumagatsana Kalyan fa a ne a bua a re ``foster care denied to orphans’’. (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[… countrymen, I am shaking because there is joy and hope for the future. But before I express my abundant joy, I would like to say that when we speak in Parliament, let us not be like watermelons and just explode. Let us speak knowing that as people who are concerned with social development, we are representing the weakest of our society, that is, children from poverty-stricken homes and those without fathers, the elderly, the poor and those who are not like us, the disabled. I apologise if I was not supposed to say it that way. When we speak about these issues, le us bear in mind that their problems are not political. We are not talking politics, but we want to help these people. I am saying this specifically in relation to what was said by Mr Da Camara, Ms Kalyan and Mr Mokono. Let us be very considerate when speaking to our poor people and avoid worsening their situation. The more you stir it, the more it stinks. Let us empathise with these people.

I heard Ms Kalyan saying that …]

… foster care cannot just be given to people. There is a law that we inherited, which needs to be amended. She knows very well that the department is drafting a comprehensive social assistance Bill. [Interjections.]

Didimala o ntheetse. Ke ne ke go reeditse, ga ke a go atlhamela. [Keep quiet and listen to me. I listened to you and never interjected.]

Just keep quiet! The member knows very well that we are redrafting the laws that we inherited. Mr Van Jaarsveld said it very well. He said it all when he said that it is a legacy and that it takes long to address a legacy.

I am going to use a number of words that we usually use here in Parliament. When we talk we always say restoration'', rehabilitation’’, reprioritisation'',regeneration’’, reconstruction'', rebuilding’’, renew'',transformation’’. All these mean we are rebuilding afresh. We all know that rebuilding a house is not like building a house. When one rebuilds, one destroys. One uses some of the material that was used to build that house. It is done at a cost. [Applause.] And one pays for destroying the old structure. Rebuilding is not just rebuilding, one destroys as well. Unfortunately, there are casualties; we are not rebuilding with bricks. We are rebuilding the souls, the lives of people, and there are casualities, because we have inherited a legacy. [Applause.]

Rebuilding also looks at maintenance. At the same time when one is rebuilding one is maintaining. One cannot ignore the structure that is being rebuilt, because in social development we deal with people. We do not use steel, corrugated iron or bricks. We rebuild a country, a country composed of people, people who have suffered. People should not play with the feelings of other people, because people are suffering. [Applause.]

There are other things to which I want to draw members’ attention. This Government is trying its best to show that rebuilding has casualties. The Government has voted R2 billion to address the casualties. Can people not appreciate this? Can people not criticise in order to help rebuilding, or do they want the structure not to be rebuilt, to stand as it is and to collapse? Is that what they are driving at? Why can they not appreciate and encourage participation in rebuilding? A legacy that this Government has inherited is one of dependency.

Ka Setswana ra re, mokodue go tsoswa o o itekang. [In Setswana, we say God helps those who help themselves.]

In my language and culture, no matter how one is, one has to do something in order to be helped. The legacy that we have inherited, which hon Ela Gandhi referred to, is that people were dependent on grants, they were never assisted to do anything. That is why they complain when grants are restructured. They complain.

Yes, we know there are casualties. I have said that already, but turning the mind of a person around is not child’s play. It is not like digging a hole and putting in stones and bricks to start a new building. We are dealing with the souls of people. The R2 billion is trying to address this. Let people learn to appreciate when good things and good attempts are made. Let people learn to appreciate what has been destroyed.

I would not like to go back to what I said last year when we were passing the budget vote on social development, when I talked of a sekorokoro [a very old car]. The issue is that we are dealing with a legacy and everything that comes with it. One can see all the terms that I have quoted.

Now we look at the reconstruction and restoration of families. We are faced with people who have no respect for themselves. These are people who do not even care. They abuse their own children. What has caused people to do this?

We cannot make an apology for that. We cannot find an excuse for that. It is something that touches the depths of our souls, but we have to face it. It is a reality that this country has to face and address. We cannot score points on such issues if the souls involved are real souls. Let us think of what we are saying.

I am going to leave that and come to our elderly, that is my parents. This country and Government love them. We respect them because we are what we are because of them. [Applause.] They suffered for years. We have just been told that a house is going to be given to a 106-year-old. It is understandable. People are meant to be in houses. What did they call it becoming 90 something years without owning a house? It is not surprising, but this Government is trying to make people own their own homes. To honour and respect the people. That is a good thing. [Applause.]

My mother who still does not have a house, it is a pity that she still does not have it, but she is going to have one. The Minister has heard that and he is going to convey that message to the Minister of Housing.

This Government is trying to say to people they have a right to own homes. One cannot lease a house for 99 years. That is the system that we come from. I know that my aunt died before she could own a home, because she had to live for 99 years, and died at 91. She had never owned a home. If the Government had not changed, she would still be waiting 99 years to own her home. People were not meant to own any homes. These are things that this Government is addressing and people must learn to appreciate that.

We cannot deny that there are shortcomings. Hon members have covered all of them with regard to delivery. The President has said that anybody who does not want to serve our people must go. [Applause.] They cannot be kept in our Government if they are not going to respect our mothers. We promise our mothers that those who treat them without respect, as the President has said, are going to leave. Those who can respect our own people are the ones who are going to be employed by this Government. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Siyabulela. [We thank you.] Madam Speaker, I want to thank all the members of this House who participated in this debate. I want to say it has been a long way since two years ago when we could not necessarily agree on many issues.

There has been a lot of progress that has been made, not only by the Department, but also by the portfolio committee in the way that it is has been able to exercise its oversight duties and assist the department in many ways, and for that we should say thanks to all the members, especially to the chair and all the other people who are involved in it. [Applause.]

The whole issue has not been party political, as hon members heard here. It has been something that all of us have taken together in order to make sure that the lives that we lead and the country for which we are struggling become something that all of us can be proud of. It is with that sentiment and in that spirit that I come to answer some of the questions that have been raised today. I might not necessarily be able to answer them all, but I will try to answer the least, if the hon Deputy Speaker allows me.

The many issues that have been raised directly concerned issues that have been raised by the President, that is improving the lives of the our people, and the poorest of the poor. Centrally to that has been the lives of the children and the disabled. We are trying to do that at the moment.

One of the issues that was raised by almost everybody is the issue of the comprehensive social security. Quite obviously, last year I said, as we had planned, that the report would have been given to us in July 2001. Unfortunately, it has not been like that. We only received it by the end of January 2002. We only read it about three weeks ago. The five Ministers then met and tried to look at it.

We made some comments and sent that report back to the cluster of directors- general who are preparing it so that it should be given to Cabinet as soon as possible and the whole process can move as fast as possible. As far as that is concerned, we will make it available to each and everybody. We would welcome all the comments that members will make and I hope those comments will prove to make it much better than it is at the moment.

On the issue of the budget allocation not being enough for welfare services in particular; there are not enough subsidies for NGOs and there is underexpenditure by the department, I want to say that there is no underexpenditure by the department this year. In fact, it has overspent. [Applause.] We have made provision for 7,3% increase in subsidies to national council. Welfare allocations are small, but we need to have norms and standards so that we can cost the services that are being rendered by the NGOs.

Poverty funds have not been cut. The future of the poverty relief fund will depend on the national Treasury’s evaluation and, more importantly, our own evaluation as a department, and the assistance that we can get from members whether we really, with that poverty alleviation, are reaching the poorest members of our society or not. This must be central to almost each and every comment that has been made. We do not just want to throw money around without knowing where it goes. What we want is to target those communities and people who are suffering, so that we can make their lives much better than they are at the moment.

On the issue that has been raised, first I want to thank our mothers who are up there, and I hope that we will be able to make a difference to their lives by means of the little things that we are doing. We know quite clearly that what we are doing is not enough. They need more than they are getting at the moment. They have sacrificed their lives for the betterment of this country. Whatever they are getting is not a gift from God, it is something that comes from their own contributions. It comes basically from their taxes that they have paid through the years. I think it is their right, and it is stamped in the Constitution that they must never beg for these grants. It is theirs. They should demand them! [Applause.]

Regarding the issue that has been raised on housing, I will specifically raise this with the Minister of Housing, but more importantly, with the MEC and the Premier of the Free State. I know she is a very kind lady, and once she hears about this she will ensure that something is done.

Let me now start answering the questions that were raised by some hon members. I hope I will be able to answer at least one or two from each of them. In so far as the hon Cass Saloojee’s question on the role of the Independent Development Trust is concerned, I would say that the IDT is for disbursement of funds, moneys used for capacity-building of the department and for the capacity-building of community structures. It is also used for the establishment of programme systems and procedures. All of the above is executed in partnership with the Department of Social Development, specifically the poverty relief funding. The national department only participates in the identification of 10% of the total projects. These are projects that overlap on provincial boundaries and can be used as pilot projects to establish norms and standards. The rest of the budget is sent to the provinces.

In so far as the role of the National Development Agency is concerned, this is primarily a body to fund development programmes of community-based organisations and NGOs. The NDA also supports materials to support projects.

With regard to hon Kalyan’s questions on the issue of HIV/Aids, I would say that children who are infected and affected by HIV/Aids qualify for all the services that are available to other vulnerable children. However, the home- based and community-based care programmes are currently used extensively to enable the primary care-givers of these children to access grants and services that they are entitled to.

In so far as the Mount Frere issue is concerned, our response has been an integrated one. The Department of Health, the Department of Home Affairs, local government and Eskom are together providing a basket of services in the short to medium term, and their long-term planned intervention is well in place through the establishment of the hydroponics project to increase and sustain food security. We have been able to get the assistance of the international donor community, specifically the United Nations donor organisations such as the World Health Organisation, the UN Children’s Fund and many others in the UN Development Programme. They are going to work with us and the government of the Eastern Cape to ensure that that project gets the necessary assistance. I am quite sure that the hon member knows that there are many such programmes right throughout the country, and we can only establish where those programmes are if the hon member, every parliamentarian and I work together to target and point to where these projects are, so that we can give the necessary funding to all those places.

In so far as Mr Van Jaarsveld’s question on the need to strengthen partnership is concerned, surely we are working with the NGO sector. We would not be where we are at the present moment had the churches and other religious organisations not given us the necessary help. We have been able, through them, to reach many, many of our deserving citizens.

With regard to the need to support the volunteer sector, we have been working with the volunteers in the volunteer groups throughout the country since the United Nations had declared last year the Year of the Volunteer. I think we are going to continue doing so. I think I have already answered the issue of additional funding for the NGOs.

The hon Mrs Mars asked how we would be able to ensure that the funds of the National Development Agency are targeted to address the development objectives, as there were problems with some poverty relief projects. In so far as the NDA is concerned, firstly, the Minister has required, in terms of the Public Finance Management Act, as hon members know, that the programmes and projects planned by the NDA must be evaluated; secondly, the national Treasury regulations also apply to the NDA; and lastly, the NDA will have to submit an annual report to this Parliament. Projects funded by the NDA are also paid in trenches, so that we should be able to trace and be accountable for everything that we give.

The hon Mrs Mars also asked how the transition from the SWOT system to the new system would ensure that the recipients of grants are not disadvantaged. To ensure a smooth transition through quality testing in the running of our prototype system we will proceed with the roll-out. This will then be followed up by a pilot phase.

With regard to the question by the hon Mr Mkono, I think I have answered him. He did not know what he was asking. [Laughter.] He did not read what he was supposed to have read. As a member of Parliament, before one comes here, one must be sure of one’s facts, so that we can answer questions that are necessary, and not spend our time on something that is unnecessary. All the funds for poverty relief have been used and sent throughout, and they have been given to the rightful people. As a department, we have spent all our funds, and this current year we are struggling to stay within our allocated budget.

The hon Ms Rajbally should note that the poverty relief allocation has actually doubled compared to last year. Last year we got R50 million and this year we are getting R100 million, and next year we will have R71 million. The Government is however reviewing the entire Poverty Relief Fund to evaluate its impact. Hence, no further allocation has been made in the outer year of the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, that is the year 2004-

1. The national Treasury will play a leading role in this review, and we hope we will know the outcomes soon. In other words, we are reviewing the poverty relief funding. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon Minister, I regret your time has expired.

The MINISTER: I am sorry about that, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]

Debate concluded. CONSIDERATION OF INTERIM REPORT OF TASK GROUP ON SEXUAL ABUSE OF CHILDREN

Mr E SALOOJEE: Madam Speaker, hon members, the Parliamentary Task Group on the Sexual Abuse of Children last week heard some of the most terrifying evidence of the absolute devastation that sexual abuse causes in children’s lives.

Towards the end of the hearings, we also heard from a group of children how they felt about abuse and the effect it has on children’s lives. These are children who showed enormous courage in coming to Parliament to tell their stories.

I can safely say that this part of the process was the most moving for all of us, and that there can be no doubt that it constituted a valuable contribution to our proceedings. We were deeply touched and moved by the children’s bravery. So, I would like to start by paying tribute to those children who, against the most challenging odds, came to tell us, as lawmakers, and to plead with us to help stop this. I would like to make it very clear to the House that the debate today is not meant to be the final debate on the matter of sexual abuse of children. The task group worked against a considerable time constraint to finish the hearings and to start considering the many issues that came out during the proceedings.

Because of the complexity of the matter, and because we want to do justice to it in the recommendations we make, the task group felt it was unable at this stage, so soon after the hearings, to provide the National Assembly with a final report on our findings.

We want to complete our report and recommendations as a matter of urgency when we return from the April recess. We also want to ensure that we play our role in the fight against sexual violence as constructively as we can.

We are, however, aware of the expectation among very many South Africans that Parliament acts on the issue. We felt that in view of our celebration of Human Rights Day on Thursday, we should start reflecting on the nature and extent of this horrific crime against our children. This crime suggests that we are not treating the rights of our children with the seriousness they deserve.

After the task group was established in terms of the decision in the office of the Speaker, and to give effect to a resolution of the National Assembly, we called for written submissions as well as oral presentations. Through our efforts in the media, we managed to draw on individuals and organisations from across the spectrum of our country, and we are encouraged by the response we received. We received seventy six well thought-out submissions. We listened to six different Government departments and 32 individuals and organisations over three and a half days of hearings.

Throughout the week, the task group was told about our children being brutally raped, being raped a second time and a third and too often not being heard. We were told of very many instances where abuse was reported, where either the child was not listened to or the case was withdrawn somewhere in the course of the criminal justice process. We were told that police statistics of about 20 000 instances of sexual abuse against children which were reported annually constituted only the tip of the iceberg.

Let us be clear about this. Sexual abuse is not a sudden phenomenon, nor is South Africa alone in dealing with challenges that it faces in this regard. In fact, the report of the International Tribunal for Children’s Rights released last year, noted that, despite the universal ratification of the Convention on the Rights of the Child in 1989, all indications are that violence against children is on the rise.

The commercial sexual exploitation of children is also on the increase worldwide. According to a report by the United Nations, between two and four million people are trafficked every year and many of them are girls between the ages of four and 17 years old. As elsewhere, it appears that trafficking in South Africa is also linked to conditions of poverty that render children more vulnerable to this form of exploitation.

It would seem that the production and distribution of child pornography is, likewise, also on the increase. Children are sometimes trafficked expressly with this aim. There have been further suggestions that there is a strong link between the possession of child pornography and sexual abuse.

Where does the sexual abuse of children take place? In 1998, a report by the Medical Research Council suggested that school teachers perpetrate 1 in 3 instances of child rape. Although this does not differ radically from the case in other countries, there are a number of causes for concern. Presenters noted that too often school authorities allow reported cases of child abuse to go unattended. The result is that perpetrators are allowed to remain at the same school for years, making it possible for them to abuse more and more children.

We are grateful for the clear commitment given at the hearings given by the Minister of Education to address this issue. We agree with the Minister that a teacher who sexually abuses learners should not be in the classroom. Where a learner discloses abuse, that child must feel that they are being heard and that the allegations are taken seriously.

The second largest incidence of child rape takes place in the home. It is perpetrated by someone who is known to the child and is supposed to trustworthy. This kind of abuse must be one of the forms that leave the most devastating scars on young children, both boys and girls.

Impacting on the child’s ability to disclose abuse in the home or in the community is the silence in our society around the issues of sexuality. This silence also contributes to the stigma that both survivors and families experience once abuse is reported. A number of the presenters also made reference to the protection that we offer children through state agencies and the manner in which our protection agencies respond to child survivors. Our protection and care services are sometimes not child- friendly.

While the SAPS Child Protection Unit is trained in dealing with child survivors of abuse, these units are not available in each town and village across the country. Survivors often speak of insensitive handling by both police, health and court officials at the different stages of the process. In addition, once a child survivor enters the child protection system, it often takes very long for the court process to be finalised.

Linked to the court process, presenters raised the issue of the message that some of the judgments in our courts may have sent to both survivors and perpetrators. When a magistrates says that an abuse is less serious when it takes place at home or when the testimony of a child is distorted in defence of a perpetrator, serious questions must be asked about the extent to which there is an understanding among officials in the justice system of the life-long harm that sexual abuse does to children.

There seems to be some consensus on the fact that while we have a number of very progressive laws and policies in place, these are not effectively implemented. In some cases this is because of a lack of resources on the side of the protection and law-enforcement agencies. We are expressing the hope today that, when the review of aspects of the Sexual Offences Act as well as the Child Care Act are finalised and services are established, those services will be well resources and that interdepartmental responsibilities with regard to protecting children will be spelt out much more clearly.

It was pointed out to us that because people are not clear about who has the right and the responsibility to report abuse, ultimately many cases simply go unreported.

Before I conclude, I want to make a sincere and urgent plea to our communities, particularly on the eve of Human Rights Day, that we should all act together in protecting our children. Children’s rights are human rights. We cannot afford to let our children down.

Finally, I would like to thank all the members of the task group as well as those members of Parliament who took the time and the effort to listen to presentations, read submissions and to ask incisive questions. I believe that we have functioned well as a team and we have been able to cross party lines on an issue that, without any doubt, is of national importance to us.

Upon our return, we will have to consider our work as members of this task group in a manner that puts beyond any doubt the seriousness with which the final report will be prepared. [Applause.]

Mrs S V KALYAN: Madam Speaker, the appointment of a task team to analyse the causes of child abuse and inform our counter strategies appropriately has been welcomed by many. A variety of organisations that work with children made presentations to the task team. From all accounts, it would appear that child abuse is getting worse. Alternatively, because there is a safe atmosphere for reporting, more cases are being reported.

Statistics presented show that one child is raped every 24 hours. In the 18 months from January 2000, there were almost 32 000 reports of child rapes and sexual attacks on children countrywide. Almost every presentation highlighted the point that South Africa lacks an integrated and co- ordinated approach to child abuse.

Several presenters have posed the question why the National Child Protection Strategy, which was presented to the Government in 1997 and which deals with both prevention and management, has yet to be implemented?

It is quite clear that there is no single approach to deal with child abuse and that a multifaceted approach is needed. On the one hand a strong legislative framework is urgently required, one that has the child’s interest at heart and which will prevent secondary trauma. On the other hand, existing services and infrastructure must be adequately equipped to address child abuse. This includes medical, legal, educational and social services.

It also became eminently clear during the hearings that there is an urgent need for a moral renewal of our society and a dire need to uplift women, and more especially the girl-child, to be seen as equal human beings, not as a possession or containers for poison.

While every single South African has a huge responsibility to our children, I think faith-based organisations have a huge and meaningful role to play. We all need to recommit ourselves to protecting children. We need to work collectively to dispel the dangerous myth that having sex with a virgin will cure one of HIV and Aids. I would like to quote the words of our former President, who said:

Our success will and must be measured in the happiness and welfare of our children, at once the most vulnerable citizens in any society and the greatest of our treasures. There can be no keener revelation of a society’s soul than the way in which it treats its children.

Today in South Africa children are the victims in 41% of rapes. We are failing our children and the damage to their psyches is immeasurable.

In conclusion, the four days of hearings gave cause to many on the task team to reach deep into their emotional reserves to cope with the trauma and the depth which is now surfacing. I would like to say to those members: Let this be the driving force to eradicate all forms of sexual violence. By lending an ear they have started the healing. [Applause.]

Mr O S B BALOYI: Madam Speaker and hon members, the Task Group on Sexual Abuse of Children sat through 38 presentations at the hearings and received for scrutiny up to 76 submissions in total. The culmination of the hearings was the very touching closing session where affected children testified.

The National Assembly must be applauded for the bold vision of appointing a task team to take on this very delicate and serious topic of sexual abuse of children. Worsening reports are being published of increase in cases of sexual abuse of children at extremely young ages, very delicate ages, never heard before in the history of this country. Then again, there is the danger of HIV/Aids which has become a central problem when we talk of rape of young children.

Today’s debate, on the eve of Human Rights Day, marks South Africa’s commitment to dealing with the growing scourge of the sexual abuse of children. Let it not be thought that this problem is unique to this country. The problem occurs all over the world. We in South Africa are not afraid to talk or report about it. Indeed, today’s debate indicates our resolve to deal with the problem head-on.

It was a challenge as well as a great privilege to be a member of this task team. One was exposed to very good presentations from members of civil society, academics, research institutions, people from rural areas, children’s rights groups, NGOs, CBOs as well as Government departments concerned. Another unique experience was the presentation, in camera, by the children who were able to share their painful experiences with the members of the task group. This, for me, was a watershed experience that inspired me to dedicate myself to be part of the solution rather than keep quiet, do nothing and be part of the problem.

We shall all be affected after we have heard the contents of the document that will be tabled. Some of the children are visually impaired. Hon members, visually impaired individuals were victims. This was indeed a moving session.

The bulk of the presentations to the task group on child abuse dealt with matters of service provision and child protection services, focusing mainly on the scarcity of such provision and services. A large portion of the presentations dealt with problems after the event and looked at possible remedial action after the event. Another cluster of presentations focused on primary level issues and looked at the problem areas, and then attempted to highlight those things that can be addressed even before our children are sexually abused.

Hon members should allow me to give them just a glimpse of the issues that were raised at the hearings. Child and sexual abuse occurs in all communities. It is generally accepted that children in poor communities are more at risk. In South Africa we all know that race correlates closely with socioeconomic status. This therefore means that the children who live in disadvantaged high-risk neighbourhoods are particularly at risk of rape and other forms of child abuse.

Members will learn from the report about the impact poverty has and how poverty develops low self-esteem in people and a low sense of personal control over their lives. Poverty can make care-givers vulnerable to outbursts of anger at the children. This anger can result in physical abuse and neglect of the children. Neglected children are then easy targets for abuse, even sexual abuse.

Sexual abuse of children happens most frequently where there is alcohol abuse and domestic violence. Alcohol also plays an amplifying role as it breaks down the inhibitions that would otherwise place limitations on the perpetrator’s behaviour. Sexual abuse frequently takes place on weekends. Other vulnerable times are during weekdays, after school, en route from school or at the child’s home where working adults return late from the workplace and young children are left alone.

The observation is that it is people who live near the child, who are acquainted with the child or the child’s family, and who have time on their hands who pose a particular threat to children. I am looking forward to the debate after the document has been tabled and I trust that the debate will take place not too long from now. May that debate indeed yield for our country policies, laws and strategies that will ensure a better life for all the children of South Africa, free of the threat of sexual abuse. [Applause.]

Nk P N MNANDI: Somlomo, Ngqongqoshe ohloniphekile, bahlonishwa, maqabane nezihlobo ezikhona phezulu, angivule inkulumo yami ngokuthulela isigqoko abantwana abakade belapha beqhamuka kulo lonke elakuleli, abazikhulumele ngokwabo. Nakuba bekubuhlungu kubona nakuthina ukuzwa ngokuhlukunyezwa kwabo, siyababonga kakhulu.

UMongameli wezwe uThabo kaMbeki ngenkathi evula le Ndlu kulo nyaka wathi siyizwe elikwaziyo ukulwa futhi siyizwe elikwaziyo ukunqoba. NgolukaJoji … (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[Ms P N MNANDI: Madam Speaker, hon Ministers, hon members, comrades and relatives who are sitting in the gallery, I would like to introduce my speech by saluting the children who were here, from all parts of this country, who spoke for themselves. Although it was painful for them, it was the same for us when we heard about their abuse and we say: Thank you very much.

The President, when he opened this House this year, said that we are a country that is able to fight and win …]

… a nation that fights and wins.

Nembala le yabanukubezi babantwana bethu sizoyilwa njengesizwe futhi sizoyinqoba njengesizwe. Ngakho-ke namhlanje sithi: mayihlome ihlasele. [Ihlombe.]

Ekupheleni konyaka odlule iSilo Samabandla onke inkosi uZwelithini Zulu enkulumeni yakhe yesizwe wathi bonke laba bantu abenza leli chilo lokunukubeza abantwana abawona amadoda, igama labo imigodoyi''. Ngithi, Bayede’’ kuleyo ndawo.

Ngithanda ukuvumelana noNgqongqoshe wezemFundo uma ethi umsuka walokhu kuhlukumeza usodlameni olukhona ekhaya nasemphakathini. Yebo, siwushayile umThetho wokuqeda nya ukushaywa kwabantwana ezikoleni kodwa awukho umThetho othi abantwana abangashaywa emakhaya. Kumanje sikhuluma nje kunenkolelo yokuthi izinga lokudlwengula linyukile kuleli. Cha, akunjalo, okwenzekayo yilokhu: UHulumeni oholwa nguKhongolose ushaye imithetho eyenza ukuthi abantu bazi kabanzi ngamalungelo abo. Manje sebeyakwazi ukukhuluma nokuveza obala izinkinga zabo. Siyabonga kuKhongolose, avulekile amasango.

Mangingene kumNyango wezeMfundo. Abantwana bazikhulumele ngokwabo. Bathi izifundo zobulili kufanele zifundiswe ezikoleni. Kuyacaca-ke ukuthi uhlelo olusha lokufunda i-Curriculum 2005 iyibambe khona, ngoba ugotshwa usemanzi.

UmNyango wezeMfundo uhlangene nomNyango wezokuPhepha balwakhile uhlelo lwezikole eziphephile. Lolu hlelo lunakho ukufundisa mayelana nokuhlukunyezwa ngokocansi. Nalo uhlelo lokusiza amantombazane ekuphunyukeni ezimeni ezibucayi selukhona. Luzosiza ukuthi izingane zethu zamantombazane zithole amathuba okuphunyuka, zingasali sezithithibala okwezimvu zomhlatshelo.

Isigungu sothisha i-Sace silusukumele ngokukhulu ukushesha lolu daba. Bathe uthisha onukubeza abantwana uzokhishwa ohlelweni lwabafundisi futhi ngeke aphinde afundise, okwakhe ukuya ezikhindini. Nakuba lolu daba luvusa uhlevane nentukuthelo esizweni sonke, masigweme ukwenza izitatimende ezibopha ngabhande linye njengokuthi nje othisha bangabadlwenguli. Akusibona bonke othisha abanukubeza izingane ezikoleni. Iningi lothisha liyawenza umsebenzi ngokukhulu ukuzikhandla. Imiphumela kamatikuletsheni yangonyaka odlule ingubufakazi balokhu. Namanje zikhona izingane ezinukubezwa obaba bazo kodwa akusho ukuthi wonke umuntu ongubaba ungumdlwenguli. [Ihlombe.]

Laba abasebancane abenza lo mkhuba kufanele sibe nezinhlelo zokubasiza ikakhulukazi ezikoleni. Nakhona udaba lwabo kufanele lubhekwe ngamehlo okhozi ukuze basizakale. Kufanele sikhumbule ukuthi nathi sabadlala omasigcozi nomacashelana.

Ezikoleni zethu kuyanda ukufunda ngobuchwepheshe bobuchafachafa, amakhompiyutha. Izingane zingena ziphuma koma-internet. Othisha nabazali mabasize abantwana ukuthi bangangeni kula magumbi e-internet anemikhuba phakathi. Abantwana ezikoleni mabafundiswe ngobugebengu bokuthathwa kwabantwana basetshenziswe ngokwezocansi. Ezifundweni zabadala alube khona uhlelo lokufundisa ngokuba umuntu abe ngumzali ofaneleyo. Ngikhuluma kanje namhlanje ngoba kukhona ukucekeleka phansi kwekusasa lezingane. Bakwethu izingane zimsulwa, azinacala namandla okuzilwela. Yingakho sithi kuyo yonke le migodoyi: nifike ekugcineni, nizokaka imbazo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[As a nation we are going to fight the number of child abusers until we win. Therefore, today we say let us arm ourselves and attack. [Applause.]

At the end of last year, his Majesty, King Zwelithini, in his national speech said that all those who commit the atrocity of abusing children are not men, they are worthless dogs. I say: Bayede! [royal salute] to that.

I agree with the Minister of Education when he says that the cause of this abuse is the domestic violence in our communities. Of course we have passed legislation regarding abolishing of the beating children at home. Today, as we talk, there is the belief that the level of rape has increased in this country. No, this is not true, what is really happening is this: The ANC- led Government has passed legislation that enables people to be informed about their rights. Today they are able to speak and put forward their problems. We would like to thank the ANC, the gates are now open.

Let me focus on the Department of Education. Children have spoken on their own. They said that the subject of sex should be taught in schools. It is clear that the new education programme, Curriculum 2005, is doing the right thing, because a tree is bent while it is still young.

The Department of Education, together with the Department of Safety and Security, have designed a strong and safe school programme. This programme deals with educating people about rape. A programme to help girls who have escaped difficult circumstances has been introduced. It will help our girls to get a chance to escape, and not be helpless like sheep that are being led to the slaughter. The teachers’ organisation, Sace, has taken this issue seriously. They said a teacher who abuses children will be kicked out of the teachers’ programme and he will never teach again, he will have to go to jail.

Although this issue causes the hackles to rise and anger to erupt in the whole nation, we must avoid generalising, for instance, by saying, teachers are rapists. Not all of teachers abuse children at school. Many teachers do their work diligently. The Matric results of last year are proof of this. Even today there are children who are being abused by their fathers, but this does not mean that all fathers are rapists. [Applause.]

We should have programmes in schools to help young people who are committing these crimes. Their issue should be looked at seriously so that they can get help. We must remember that even we, ourselves, did play the game of hiding from one another when we were young. In schools, the level of learning about computers is increasing. Children are increasingly using the Internet. Teachers and parents must assist children not to go to these sections of Internet that display bad habits. Children at schools should be taught about the crime of child abuse.

In the courses for older children, there should be a programme that teaches them about being good parents. I talk like this today because there is an attitude of looking down upon the future of the children. Good people, children are innocent, they are not guilty nor do they have the power to fight for themselves. That is why we say to all these useless dogs: You have now arrived at the dead end of the road, you are going to face the axe. [Applause.]]

Mr C M MORKEL: Mr Chairman, I was hoping Madam Speaker would still be in the Chair, because I wanted to thank her for her role in ensuring that the sexual abuse of our nation’s children enjoys such a high priority in this House. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, you are making a noise. Continue, hon member.

Mr C M MORKEL: Similarly, the contribution of the Chairperson of the NCOP also needs to be acknowledged.

I take this opportunity to thank all members of the task group, especially chairperson Salojee, for the spirit in which we were able to make progress beyond the ominous Ides of March. It was a clear indication that we can and must rise above petty party-political bickering so that we can forge consensus on issues of national importance. The sexual abuse of children is undoubtedly such an issue.

We also wish to thank the committee section, researchers, the public and education department of Parliament as well as the media for all their valiant efforts. Most of all, we need to thank the respondents to the call for submissions in this our attempt to make sense of the state of the emergency confronting our nation’s children. The outpouring of the accounts of sexual abuse by children was in itself a clear indication that the hearings were not just another talk shop where we often hear theories about faceless perpetrators and victims. The children have spoken.

The prematurely aged faces with which many sobbing children shared some of their traumatic experiences reinforce the view that children must be given the opportunity to share their experiences with Parliament, Government departments and the judiciary in a more sensitive and specialised manner.

Far too often the leaders of our nation do not listen to our children as if to say: ``Gaan speel buite. Hierdie is grootmense se sake.’’ [Go and play outside. This is an adult matter.] This is one of the worst forms of paternalism. We must ensure that we listen to and represent the interests of our nation’s children in a more structured and sustained manner.

I am of the view that the event of the public hearings is only the start of the healing process. The final report can only be completed when we have sufficiently interrogated the overwhelming content of both oral and written submissions in a more analytical manner than allowed for by the urgent efforts ahead of the Easter recess.

The recommendations on process that emerged from the comprehensive submissions requiring decisive action include views to the effect that, firstly, the final report of the task group must result in a review of certain Government policies and programmes, and they suggest that this could best be driven by an interministerial committee whose political will must co-ordinate the urgent work of an interdepartmental committee on the sexual abuse of children. Secondly, an urgent need is identified to review all relevant legislation, thus demanding the undivided attention and resources of Parliament as well. Thirdly, the monitoring and oversight role of Parliament must remain focused on this crisis until we are satisfied that the systemic challenges that we have to deal with and the relevant interventions are in place, so that our children can be children again without being forced into early adulthood.

In drafting the final report of the task group during the next sitting of Parliament, some of the key areas that we would need to focus on include a consolidation of the sectoral research on the causes and effects of sexual abuse on both victims and perpetrators; the need for a comprehensive and action-oriented policy; programmatic and legislative review; and the need for public awareness and participation in interventionist programmes of action.

We would need to find constructive consensus on the substantive issues of contention that emerge from the public hearings. These include the assertion that many perpetrators have themselves been victims of violence and sexual abuse as children; the impact of censorship policies and the availability of pornographic material; the impact of certain cultural myths and practices, including the misconception that having sex with a virgin could prevent or cure HIV/Aids; the practice of the virginity testing; the need for a register of sexual offenders; the need for community-based safe houses; the need for child-friendly trauma counselling; the testing for exposure to HIV/Aids within and beyond the incubation period of both victims and perpetrators; the precautionary administration of antiretroviral drugs to victims within 72 hours of being raped; the need for a more child-friendly environment for the proper reporting of sexual abuse; the need for appropriate record keeping and statistical analysis of sexual offences against children; the need for focused and legal community action; and, last but not least, the need for public awareness and sex education.

In conclusion, if we fail in our task, only we can be held responsible if our children continue to become victims of sexual abuse, as a result of any systemic challenges that are not monitored, overseen and redressed.

Although I do not have children of my own as yet, I nevertheless make a pledge before this House that I will strive always to serve and represent the voiceless little people, especially our children and youth, who need to be heard in greater numbers and more often. Your child is my child. Children must be seen and not hurt.

Our challenge now is to sustain and expand this annual activity of Parliament called the youth parliamentary programme beyond role-play. Otherwise, addressing our common challenges would at best remain child’s play, and at worst, would become a nightmare on Freedom Street. We have no more time for thinking and talking about reworking old plans. We must act now to break the exponentially spreading virus that lurks deep like a cancer, eating away at the soul of our nation and spreading from perpetrators to victims, who themselves become perpetrators. We must stop this evil hand that rocks the cradle of our nation. They are our children - your child is my child.

Laat die kranse antwoord gee op die stem van die beskermers van ons kinders. [Let the voices of our children’s protectors ring out from the hilltops.] Let our voices ring out from the hilltops in the deepest rural areas and the rooftops of densely populated urban areas, that I am my brother’s keeper, and I am my sister’s keeper.

Ms A VAN WYK: Mr Chairperson and hon members, at the outset I would like to thank the chairperson, Mr Saloojee, for the sensitive manner in which he conducted the hearings. The diligent and dedicated approach of the committee secretary and the research team should also be noted and receive this House’s appreciation.

Sexual abuse of children is a reality that was highlighted with the rape of baby Tsepang and the subsequent public outrage and condemnation of that act of horror. The appointment of the multidisciplinary task group demonstrates the seriousness and urgent need that is experienced across party lines to deal with this demon in a decisive manner. The interest and involvement of the Minister of Education in the work of the task group was encouraging and appreciated.

The public hearings painted a grim picture. The submissions had many aspects of commonality, such as the the insensitive and inadequate system dealing with sexual abuse against children. They highlighted a lack of resources, both material and human. Throughout the structures that are involved in each case of sexual abuse there is poor communication with the survivor and their families, inadequate or, more often that not, no co- ordination between the different role-players and inadequate training to deal with survivors and their families.

It was clear from the public submissions that every single Government department which is tasked in one way or another in dealing with sexual abuse survivors is plagued with each of the above-mentioned problems. There is not one department that can stand up and state in honesty that it cannot do better or that it is dealing with the problem of sexual abuse in an adequate manner. That would simply be dishonest. It would also serve no purpose in finding lasting solutions to deal with the sexual abuse of our children. It is true that a police officer at the police station decides that he or she will not open a docket because the alleged perpetrator is a person of high esteem and he or she would not be guilty of such allegations. It is true that in the Department of Health a sexual abuse survivor is sent home and told to come back the next day because there is no doctor available to examine the victim. It is true that in the Department of Social Development there simply are not enough places of safety or trained social workers to deal with such victims. It is true that in the Department of Justice a sexual abuse survivor will be exposed to the accused and their supporters in the court. It is true that the Department of Home Affairs fails to issue social beneficiaries with the necessary documentation that is required by them to receive their social grants.

We heard about the role of alcohol and drug abuse in sexual abuse. The task group listened with horror how poverty aggravates the situation and how parents sell their own children with the hope of soliciting some form of financial reward. But it was the evidence of the children themselves which touched us the most. It was their testimony about their own personal abuse that served as the greatest motivation to find solutions in order to deal with this in a decisive manner.

Our children are the pride of our nation. They are our hope and our future. They are the reason we should be working tirelessly towards shaping a better tomorrow. We cannot allow these monsters who steal our hope, our pride and our future to get away with it any longer. We cannot call ourselves a free society, yet our children live in fear. We cannot call ourselves leaders of this nation if we cannot protect our children.

I am talking about protecting our children not from an outside enemy, but from an enemy within, an enemy who carries the name father'', mother’’, brother’’, sister'',teacher’’ or ``friend’’, an enemy who should be protecting and leading, yet who ends up perpetrating a crime.

This interim report does not deal with solutions. But what it clearly states to us is that we as a nation will collectively have to take responsibility in addressing this problem of child abuse. [Applause.]

Mr M E GEORGE: Mr Chairperson, hon members of Parliament, I would like to start my presentation by commending Parliament for instituting public hearings on sexual abuse of children. I trust that this marks the beginning of a concerted effort involving both Government and the NGO sector in making a real difference in the lives of abused children.

As a Christian my attention has been drawn by the evil things human beings are doing to each other. I am convinced that God must be terribly disappointed that humans can commit such horrible deeds to other fellow human beings. When God created man, he was full of enthusiasm and love. Members should read Genesis 1:26 which says, and I quote:

Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over all the earth.

What human beings are doing is not only an embarrassment to human beings, but also an embarrassment to God. What men do to their wives, their children and the children of their girlfriends is what we are hearing about, and it is not good for this nation. Looking at the crime rate, specifically at violence against women and children, it is clear that too many of our people have lost their moral bearings and that there is something terribly wrong in society.

Behaviour is too often based on short-term personal gain, with little or no thought for the consequences for other people. In this context, the most vulnerable members of our society - children - fall victim to those who wish to gratify themselves or simply to exercise power. Many people’s sense of what is right or wrong has become perverted. One can tell by the jokes we make even in the corridors of this Parliament.

A bleak picture emerged from the hearings through more than 30 oral submissions by survivors, nongovernmental organisations and researchers. There was a real cry for help at the hearings. They showed the extent to which apartheid brutalised all of us. One of the key things apartheid did was to physically destroy communities and families through systems such as migrant labour and the single-sex hostels at mines. What struck me most throughout the hearings was that there is a continuum of violence and that there is a connection between violence against women and children and violence against men who are perceived to be weak.

There are indications that those who were abused are themselves three times more likely to commit rape or abuse other people. This fuels a culture of violence. Violence breeds violence.

Although the South African Police Service’s Child Protection Unit has had some successes in combating child sexual abuse, it is not easy to police child sexual abuse. It is difficult to control and prevent child abuse simply because it happens within the privacy of the home, bedroom, office, church, and so on.

According to research, children are more likely to be sexually abused by someone they know, friends or relatives, than by a stranger. Children are confused about being abused by someone they trust to protect them. Education about child sexual abuse starts at home. If the home is a problem, then the society has to rely on the state to assist with educating the public about the problem.

That is the message that we must send out, that we cannot tolerate this type of activity - the abuse of our children. The issue of child sexual abuse must not be politicised and all political parties should work together in combating this problem.

I want to thank all political parties for the manner in which they handled the hearings. There was no attempt to bring in politics, except from our new converts, the ACDP. As usual they tried, in vain, because nobody took them seriously, to politicise the issue.

I hope the speaker who is going to speak after me is not going to try that again, because she was the champion of that wrongdoing. Of course, I understand why they behave as they are doing. They claim to be Christians, but most of the time they do not behave like Christians. They probably misuse Christianity for some political expediencies.

We must counteract the commodification of sex and the dehumanisation of women. Appropriate legislation to prevent child sexual abuse and legislation to support the victims should be enforced. Policy for combating child sexual abuse should be the responsibility of various Ministries, such as Welfare, Health, Culture, Education, Safety and Security and Justice.

The problem of child sexual abuse requires sustained attention. We have seen many processes of this nature start and then dissipate as the media attention shifts to another topic. I am therefore hopeful that this process initiated by Parliament will result in a sustainable primary preventative approach to the problem of child sexual abuse, as part of a renewal of strategies to protect all children from all forms of abuse. In the final analysis, all South Africans must take collective responsibility to break the cycle of violence against women and children.

I want to conclude by saying that I am talking as a man to men. Let us respect our children, women and those who are weaker than us. [Applause.]

Ms C DUDLEY: Jesus, I trust in you. Madam Speaker, while we indulge in yet another debate today, there is a rape or attempted rape of a child every 24 seconds in our country. In the short time I have today, I will concentrate on issues raised in written submissions which the task team chose not to hear.

Government repeatedly makes appeals to churches with regard to the moral regeneration of our people, but consistently undermines their efforts through destructive legislation, policies and lack of enforcement of the laws. Children, being made in God’s image, are unquestionably valuable. And yet, in South Africa the propaganda about overpopulation is widespread and the value of children is measured by whether or not they are wanted. Abortion is the ultimate child abuse and by allowing and even promoting the destruction of children as a woman’s right, the protective role that society should play is undermined.

A large percentage of abortions are done even after 21 weeks and hundreds of these tiny babies born alive, are being thrown in buckets to drown. God have mercy on us! And, if this is politics, Mr George, then so be it.

The ACDP calls on Government to scrap the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Act of 1997, and revise the Constitution to ensure that a child’s right to life is protected by law, from conception.

Government-funded LoveLife'', and planned parenthood, school sex education and other campaigns are lewd and obscene. Yes, children should be encouraged to talk openly to parents and other responsible adults about sex in the context of Godly values and loving marital relationships, but there is no correlation between this and the smut produced byLoveLife’’.

The ACDP pleads with Government urgently to recall and replace Curriculum 2005’s HIV/Aids and life skills courses, which include videos on gay cruising and prostitution, and instruction on how a woman has an orgasm, including how a female or male can give a woman oral sex, explicit instructions on sexual intercourse repeated every year and much more. Ezekiel 16:58 states:

You will bear the consequences of your lewdness and your detestable practices, declares the Lord.

While TV promotes and glamorises casual sex, STDs contracted as a result of promiscuity are not depicted. Recently, e-TV ran ``Emmanuelle’’, which is a pornographic series of movies, in spite of widespread objections. The ACDP calls on Government to give the SABC a moral mandate not to show programmes that promote promiscuity and give the Broadcasting Complaints Commission the power to prevent the screening of undesirable material. At least four submissions on pornography were made to the task team but no oral presentation was accommodated. There is a perception that Government is diverting attention from the contentious issue of pornography as a whole by homing in on the universally condemned child pornography and Internet, which has no relevance in many communities.

In South Africa, adult pornography is legal and defended in the name of free speech, while children fall victim to those who become aroused by adult pornography, simply because they are small and easily intimidated and manipulated.

In addition, the physical differences between the 18-year-olds depicted in pornography and 14-to-17-year-olds is indiscernible. SA Police Service records show that child rape has increased by over 400% since pornography was legalised in 1996. Pornography is all too often a manual for rape.

The ACDP calls on Government to make both the sale and the possession of all pornography illegal, to give the Film and Publication Board the power to preview potentially pornographic material to prevent it from getting into circulation, and to close down adult pornography stores. South Africa has the highest reported rape rate. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms L MABE: Mr Chairperson, I still do not understand why the people who claim to be Christians have a problem with the termination of pregnancy, which was accessible to whites in this country during the early 70s. Now, when it becomes available to blacks it becomes a sin and a big problem. [Interjections.] I do not want to engage in politics at this time because the topic we are discussing here is a highly sensitive one. So, today I am not prepared for any political debate.

From the hearings we conducted last week, it is quite clear that there are serious problems in the justice system, and there is no way that we cannot reflect on those problems, which were raised by the people who attended those hearings. It was clear from the presentations that cases are not properly investigated by the public prosecution. These cases, which are not properly investigated by the police, are just allowed to go through to court prosecutors, while it is quite clear that there are not enough facts to press charges against the perpetrator.

It was also made clear that the credibility of cases is compromised by the fact that insufficient information is provided by police officers, while the victims have given sufficient information, which was not captured in the statement. There was also another problem in terms of the delays in the finalisation of cases. These delays psychologically affect the victims so that they cannot withstand the pressure of the courtrooms and the legal representatives of the perpetrators.

These delays also lead to the victims losing their memory in terms of the sequence of events. If prosecutors can ensure that the processing of these cases is speeded up, that will help the victims. The environment in court also intimidates children. Imagine if a child of four or five years of age has to appear in front of an adult. How can that particular child argue against adults? That is a highly impossible situation.

The presence of perpetrators also intimidates the children. One finds that the boyfriend of the mother or the uncle is present, facing the child who has to give testimony about what has happened. This is a gross irregularity in terms of our legal system. These things should be avoided in future.

With regard to cross-examination, the legal representatives of perpetrators regard it as a victory when during cross-questioning a young child cannot argue against an adult person. What does that mean? Are we making a joke out of our criminal justice system by not protecting these children?

The insensitivity of legal representatives also causes these children to end up confused and experiencing serious fear when standing against adults. With regard to the judicial officers, it is unfortunate that some of our magistrates and judges prejudge the victims. When they cross-examine a girl child, they want to know: What was she wearing? Was it her first sexual experience? What is that? How can one say that a child of five years of age had a first sexual experience? That is uncalled for.

The other thing is that they also concentrate on the character of the complainant. If the child grew up in a violent area, they maintain that the child invited abuse. That is wrong. A child cannot invite abuse from an adult. That is not possible.

Another issue which was of concern to the presenters is that the sentences which are passed are too lenient. One finds that somebody who has committed rape is sentenced to four or five years. This does not fit the crime that was committed. Rape is a major offence in this country.

Another issue is that there is a low conviction rate of these child rapists. Cases are taken to court but at the end of the day people are not convicted. They cannot be given jail sentence because of what they have done. Another thing that cropped up is that there is a high withdrawal rate of cases. This results from the fact that victims are very young. The perpetrators are family members who intimidate these children. When there are no visible injuries on the bodies of these children there is no evidence. Court rolls are full and it is claimed that judicial officers are stressed. Defence lawyers use delaying tactics. A sexual offence register was also one of the things that featured prominently, but this will need debate at a later stage.

We are hoping that the Department of Justice will ensure that legislation on sexual offences will be speeded up so that these people can be convicted in a proper manner.

Ka bomadimabe, bana ba rona ba iphitlhela e le gore kwa bofelong, bagolo ba ba botsa dipotso tse ba ka se kgoneng go di emela. Potso ke gore: Fa ngwana a sa kgone go ikarabela mo motsading o tla ikarabela jang mo mmueleding yo o tswang sekolong e bile a rutegile, fa ena a sa rutega go ya ka molao? Go utlwisa botlhoko go bona bana ba diragalelwa ke dilo tse di ntseng jalo.

Kwa bofelong, ke rata gore ka ntlha ya fa bana ba sa kgone go ipuelela, go tlhokega gore karolo ya dikgotlhatshekelo tse di ntseng di le teng - e seng gore go agiwe tse dintshwa - di dire ka dikgetse tsa bana ba ba tshwarwang makgwakgwa le ba ba betelelwang gore go se ka ga nna le dikgetse tse dintsi tse di emetseng go sekwa. [Nako e fedile.] [Legofi.] (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[Unfortunately, in the end adults pose questions that our children cannot answer. If children who are not educated cannot be answerable to their parents, how can they be answerable to a trained professional lawyer? It is very sad to see children being subjected to these types of conditions.

In conclusion, I would like to say that since children cannot speak for themselves, a part of the existing courts - new courts should not be built

• should be used for cases of child abuse and rape to reduce the build-up of cases awaiting trial. [Time expired.] [Applause.]]

Mrs P W CUPIDO: Chairperson, while the Government has recently appointed a multiparty task team to stimulate debate and make recommendations with regards to combating sexual abuse of children in this country, we face yet another rape of a girl of 11 years old. As was reported in yesterday’s newspapers, the girl lived alone with her father for three years.

Each member of the task team has received an invitation from the Phaphamani rape crisis counselling centre, inviting all members of the task team to visit the rape capital of South Africa - Uitenhage in the Eastern Cape.

My vraag aan hierdie Regering is of hy die wil het en of hy ernstig is om beloftes van menseregte, soos dit in ons Grondwet aangeteken is, gestand te doen en uit te leef. Die Grondwet belowe aan kinders in hierdie land onder meer die reg op basiese voeding, behuising, beskerming en veiligheid. Dit is inderdaad duidelik dat daar derduisende kinders is - veral dogtertjies - wat jare van vrees, onveiligheid, pyn, wanhoop, aanranding en verkragting beleef sonder hoop vir die toekoms, sonder berading of behoorlike hulpbronne om hierdie kinders ‘n geleentheid op sielkundige heling en liggaamlike herstel te gee. Hoe ernstig hierdie Regering gaan optree met hierdie saak kan dalk gemeet word aan vorige probleme van dieselfde aard.

Wat het geword van ons openbare verhore en ondersoeke na die mishandeling van bejaardes? Televisieprogramme soos Carte Blanche en Special Assignment, asook wyer mediadekking, het internasionale aandag op ons bejaardes gevestig. Watter korrektiewe stappe het intussen die omstandighede en veiligheid van bejaardes verbeter? Het die publiek ooit weer van die Regering gehoor? In hoe ‘n mate gee die President om vir sy kinders se veiligheid en hul welstand? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[My question to this Government is whether they have the will and whether are they are serious about fulfilling and living out their promises of human rights as stated in the Constitution. The Constitution promises children in this country, amongst others, the right to basic nutrition, housing, protection and safety. It is indeed clear that there are thousands of children - especially girls - who experience years of fear, insecurity, pain, despair, assault and rape, without hope for the future, without counselling or proper resources to give these children a chance to heal psychologically and physically. How serious the Government is going to deal with this issue could perhaps be measured against similar problems in the past.

What happened to our public hearings and investigations into the abuse of the elderly? Television programmes like Carte Blanche and Special Assignment, as well as wider media coverage, trained international attention on our elderly. What rectifying steps have changed the conditions and safety of the aged in the meantime? Did the public ever again hear from the Government? How much does the President care for his children’s safety and welfare?]

The President spoke in this House on 21 June 2001, just days after Youth Day, 16 June. He said, and I quote:

We celebrated the fact that our people can march down our streets without the fear of being shot and killed, regardless of the cause they seek to advance.

I want to say to the President that I also pay tribute to thousands of children who sacrificed their lives for such a good cause. But now our children march down our streets with fear of being raped and abused. A new darkness has dawned in this country. The question is: Is it safe to be born in South Africa?

On 21 June last year - or in a second speech the President made, did not refer to these children, whom I represent today. It is as if he is unaware of these brutal rapes and abuses, as if he never reads newspapers or watches the news. [Interjections.] Last week we listened to presenters, one after the other, as well as young children, some of them victims. I trust that this Government will in this case really take considerable steps to give hope of a safer environment.

In conclusion, the DP reaffirms our sympathy to each and every child rape victim and every mother who bears the pain with her child. The Government must take note of the seriousness with which every organisation and individual participated in the hearings. The Government will also have to produce new legislation which will embody some progressive reform to existing laws relating to sexual offences. We will concentrate on our recommendations from the DP and from the DA side in the final debate in the second term of this year. [Applause.]

Ms H I BOGOPANE: Chairperson, allow me to take this opportunity to dedicate my speech today to all the children who have been sexually abused in this country. I would refrain from calling them victims because I believe that a day after the rape or abuse has taken place, a person is no longer a victim but a survivor.

I would like to dedicate this speech to take this opportunity of sharing my own story as a way of saying to the children of South Africa, they have a Government that listens. I would take the opportunity not to talk to issues around policy because when the Government signed the CRC it made a commitment to children and said that the first call will be for children. Yes, we all agree, there have been problems, but there has also been a lot of progress since 1994.

The first thing that I would address myself to is to declare my disappointment firstly to the call that the termination of pregnancy should be abolished.

I take this stand today as a survivor of sexual abuse myself, and that abuse left me with a child I never wanted to have. At that time if termination of pregnancy was there, I would have taken the option. Unfortunately, I am today a mother of a child who I never planned to have, and at that particular time, those many years ago, I was not given the option.

What makes it even more heartbreaking is for another woman who believes that even if she gets a child from being raped, she is forced to live with that child. I am not sure if I agree with that. What makes it more difficult is that as they call for the termination of pregnancy to be abolished they forget one thing, that one will become a victim for the rest of one’s life.

The Termination of Pregnancy Act gives women an opportunity to be survivors because as I speak today, I have questions that I need to ask. The CRC says, the child has rights which go with responsibilities. My daughter needs her father, who happens to be a rapist who raped me. I am subjected to answering questions that I never wanted to answer, and I am not sure because that literally says that I would have to co-operate with somebody who has given me a child without my permission.

I am not sure what that means, but I will leave it to the House as we go through the debate to make the decision. Maybe at that time when we deal with the recommendations we can look at it. Much as I respect the right to survival, I also respect the right to having a choice as a young woman.

Article 4 of the Convention on the Rights of the Child clearly states that the implementation of the rights of children, which is a Government responsibility, must be made a reality. As we implement these rights today, I want to highlight that the children have highlighted their pain. A lot of them are abused by their own fathers who are tasked with the responsibility of protecting them, and their own teachers who are tasked with the responsibility of teaching them.

I share the same story with one of the children who made a presentation. As a young blind girl she was raped by her own father, who is there to protect her. Every time she gets raped, he does not speak, so she is unable to even know who raped her.

My only call and request is that the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development needs to acknowledge and take into cognisance the special needs of what happens when a blind person is raped by a perpetrator who would not even talk so as not to leave any evidence behind, because this would therefore say that he must go on an identity parade. This means that such victims would not have justice, because they have not seen their perpetrators.

The second thing that was highlighted is that the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development must also acknowledge that as disabled young women with different disabilities, we have different special needs, and that the department must move smoothly to take into cognisance those needs as the disabled also have the right to have their say and to share in the same democracy.

The issues around child abuse are not new. I would agree with my colleagues when they say that child abuse is not on the increase. What is on the increase is the number of victims who are so young, because the youngest sexually abused survivor in South Africa was two weeks old. That says we have a problem. I think when the Government established the NPA it acknowledged that we had a problem and that we required an integrated approach to deal with it.

What needs to happen is what we will discuss when we go into the recommendation as highlighted, but what I want to leave the House to think about are the following. As we address child abuse we also need to bear in mind that we will also be dealing with the issue of teenage pregnancy. It is on the increase for one reason, the majority of young women who are pregnant have been sexually abused. A lot of them are able to have their lives back, because they are given the choice of terminating those pregnancies.

Therefore, it means that they would never ever have to see or have anything to do with their perpetrators again, unlike us who are today subjected on an ongoing basis. One cannot close that chapter, because one is forced to share the responsibility of raising that child with somebody one wishes never to see again in one’s life.

It would also deal with issues of HIV/Aids, because as one minimises the whole issue around sexual abuse and acknowledges the problems, one develops the different mechanisms that would address that particular aspect and one makes recommendations. By the way, a lot of them have already been dealt with. We will take into cognisance the differences between a rural child, disabled child, cultural aspects that are also at times very oppressive to some of the issues, not forgetting the religious aspects. [Applause.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, the crisis of child rape and abuse is not a new issue faced by society. It is, as reported by Dr Michelle Youngleson, a cycle which is difficult to break. There is a history of child abuse that takes many forms and is a course of many reasons. The MF is distressed by this dilemma and is glad that this earnest initiative has been taken, noting the seriousness of the situation and the determination to put a stop to it.

The MF supports the task group on sexual abuse of children and applauds its achievements and dedication this far. It also recognises the efforts of so many parties that contributed to this programme and found the submission made not only as contributory to tackling the problem, but also as evidence that South Africa does host a good moral fibre of persons and parties that are genuinely concerned.

The many submissions made personally and by the NGOs, such as those by Rape Crisis, Prudence Msibi, Joshua Moskei and so many others, represent a breakthrough that gives the victims a voice to put an end to child abuse.

Our society needs to be educated about the many forms of child abuse and the repercussions, causing a cycle of abuse from generation to generation. The MF applauds and supports the task team and is happy to see the involvement of so many departments such as Education, Safety and Security, and so forth, in joining a commitment to overcome the cycle of child abuse. At times we do not realise that the many forms child abuse may take can be emotional, verbal, and through neglect. There are so many, and these have major effects on how people socialise.

The MF supports the task team and the end to all forms of child abuse. Children need to be loved, not abused. To the abusers, in God’s name, stop this sinful act. [Applause.]

Ms S K MNUMZANA: Modulasetulo, ha ke qale ka ho leboha bohle kilng ba nka karolo, haholo bana ba kileng ba fihla kahare ho Palamente ya Afrikaborwa ka sebete mme ba beha dintlha tsa bona; ba tshetleha mathata ao ba fetileng ho ona.Letsatsi la kajeno ho na ke letsatsi le bohloko, ke letsatsi le mahlonoko; ka boiphihlelo boo nkileng ka ba le bona, ha re ne dutse jwalo ka komiti mme re mametse mafapha a mmuso, mekgatlo ka ho fapafapana mme, re mametse le bana ba fihlileng ba hlalosa boiphihlelo, boima le bthata boo ba fetileng ho bona jwalo ka diphofu.

Ke rata ho hlalosa ha nyenyane seo re se utlwileng jwalo ka barumuwa ba mmuso, ho batlisisa le ho batla mekgwa eo tlhekefetso ya bana e ka fediswang ka teng, eleng e tlang ka mokgwa wa thobalano. Tlhekefetso ena e ama bana ka tsela tse ngata, e ba ama mmeleng, dikelellong, mme le bokamoso ba bona bo ameha ka tsela e sa nepahalang. Ngwana eo e bileng phofu ya tlhekefetso o phela ka leqeba leo jwalo ka motho ya nang le lefu la lepera. Ha nke ke re qaqa ka tse ding tseo bana bana ba iphuneng bashebane le tsona ka lebaka la tlhekefetso.

Diphofu tsena di tsamaya nako e telele ha ba ilo fumantshwa thuso ya bophelo bo botle kapa ba ilo fumana dingaka. Le ha ba se fihlile teng, mela eo ba e emang ke e metelele haholo hobane ba hore ba eme moleng, ho emela hore nako ya bona e fihle. Ba bonwa ke batho ba hlokang boiphihlelo mme ba hloka thupello e batsi ya hore ba be le kutlwelo bohloko ho bona, ba be le mamello mmme ba nahanele diphofu tsena. Mekgwa ya ho fumana dintlha tsa ketsahalo le yona ke fokolang ka hare ho dipetlele, ka hare ho deishene tsa mapolesa mme qetello o fumane hore bopaki bo leng teng bo a fokola ha bo fihla kgotla. Ho se rupellwe ha batho bohle ba amehang bakeng sa ho thusa diphofu tsena jwalo ka dingaka, baoki, sepolesa, baahlodi le bohle ba amehang, e eba qaka ho bana bana.

Ho fokola ha ditshebeletso mafapheng a mang a tsa bophelo bo botle ha holo jwang batho ba iphumang ele ba kojwana di mahetleng mme ele batho ba mahaeng le teng entse ele bothata ho bona hobane ha ba fumane dintho tseo ba tlamehang ho di fumana tse amanang le tsa bophelo bo botle. Setjhaba le sona se bapala karolo hobane tsela eo ba kgesang diphofu tsena ka yona, ehloka ho nehelana ka bopaki hore bana bana batle ba tsebe ho fumana thuso. Motho ha a lokela ho fna ka bopki kgotla o tshaba mahlo a batho, otshaba ho hlowa ke batho bao a dulang le bona. Ho hlokeha ha dibaka tsa tshireletso, ha ho nkuwa bopaki ke bong ba mathata. H di district surgeons, disebediswa tsa tshohanyetso le tshehetso e phethahetseng e lokeang ho fuwa diphofu tsena, ke qaka ka hare ho setjhaba.

Ho na le ntlha e re tlamang, eo re tlamehang ho e hlokomela ya tumelo e e reng ho robala le ngwana e monyenyane ho phekola lefu kwatsi ya bosolla hlapi. Ke tlhekefetso e feteletseng hobane hase dingaka tsa setso tse tlang ka taba ena, empa ele lequlwananyana la batho ba ratang ho kgelosa setjhaba mme re ile ra ba le monyetla wa hore re ke re kopane le marena eleng Amakhose mme bona ha ba re fa bopaki ba buile mme ba phatlaltsaa hore ba tshetsa mmuso hoo ba bileng ba kopile lefapha la bophelo bo botle hore ba ke ba kopane. (Translation of Sotho speech follows.)

[Ms S K MNUMZANA: Hon chairperson, let me begin by saying thank you to all of those who have participated, especially children who bravely entered the South African Parliament and stated their case, the children who bravely tabled their difficult experiences. To me, this day is a very heartbreaking day. It is a very crucial day, given what I experienced when we were sitting as a committee, listening to Government departments, different organisations and, of course, children who came to describe their own experiences, difficulties and hardships which they have undergone as victims.

I would like to explain a little bit about what we as Government delegates have heard in investigating and coming up with a mechanism through which sexual child abuse can be brought to an end. This abuse affects children in many ways. It affects them physically and mentally and their future is negatively affected. A child who has been a victim of abuse lives life like a leper. Let me touch on a few factors with which these children have found themselves faced, as a result of abuse.

These victims walk long distances whenever they visit health service places or whenever they visit medical doctors. Even on arrival there, they have to wait in very long queues because they have to wait their turn. They are attended to by inexperienced people who need extensive training with regard to being sympathetic towards and having patience with these victims. The system of finding factors relating to the incident is also very poor in the hospitals and police stations and as a result the available evidence is always very poor in court. Lack of training for those who represent these victims, ie medical doctors, nurses, the police, judges and all those who are accountable, becomes a problem to these children.

The lack of services in certain health departments, especially for poor people, is still a problem because they don’t get whatever they deserve regarding their health. The community also contributes to this through the manner in which it discriminates against these victims. One finds a person shying away from giving evidence whenever that is due to be done. A person becomes afraid of being hated by other people within the community. One of these problems is that of a lack of secure places where evidence can be given or taken. The scarcity of district surgeons, emergency services and the proper service due to these victims is a big problem within society. There is a binding factor which we must take into consideration. This relates to the myth that having sex with a small child can cure Aids. That is pure abuse, because this idea was not brought about by traditional healers, but by a bunch of people whose intention is to confuse and send people astray. We had an opportunity to hold a meeting with traditional leaders, ie Amakhosi, and they provided us with their evidence. They have spoken and announced that they support the Government, to the extent that they have even asked the Department of Health to hold a meeting with them.]

Mnr C AUCAMP: Agb Voorsitter, kan daar ‘n groter aanklag wees teen ‘n gemeenskap as die feit dat ons vandag in die Parlement ‘n debat moet hou oor die seksuele misbruik van kinders - die kleinste, die mees weerlose onder ons, wat uitgebuit word, verkrag word, gestroop word van hul kinderlike onskuld, gevangenes gemaak word van ervarings wat die diepste wese van hul menswees aantas? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Hon Chairperson, can any indictment of a community be bigger than the fact that today, in Parliament, we have to debate the sexual abuse of children - the smallest, the most vulnerable among us who are being exploited, raped and stripped of their childlike innocence, and who are being rendered prisoners of experiences that affect the deepest core of their humanity?]

South Africa has, as a country, adopted one plan and charter after the other: The 1990 Summit for Children’s Goals for Survival, Protection, Development and Participation; the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child; the First Call for Children; a National Plan of Action for Children; the Bill of Rights in our Constitution and the African Charter on the Rights and Welfare of the Child. Still children are abused and raped in South Africa at an alarming rate. That is true for all communities.

Ons kan baie planne maak, en dis reg. Ons kan nasionale aksies loods - en dit hoort so - so lank ons net by die wortel van die kwaad uitkom. Ons moet eenvoudig die morele standaarde van Suid-Afrika se mense verhoog. Kinderverkragting illustreer die laagste vorm denkbaar van morele menslike bestaan.

Die Regering kan fasiliteer en koördineer. Die Regering moet toesien dat oortreders gestraf word. Maar die belangrikste saak is dat die burgerlike samelewing versterk moet word. En die kern daarvan is die gesin en die kerk. Faktore wat gesonde gesinslewe belemmer, moet net eenvoudig aangespreek word - armoede, werkloosheid, obskure sosiale hole, misdaad en kultuur van geweld. Gesinswaardes moet verstewig word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[We can make many plans, and this is correct. We can launch national campaigns - and so it should be - as long as we just get to the root of the evil. We simply have to raise the moral standards of the people of South Africa. Child rape illustrates the lowest imaginable form of moral human existence.

The Government can facilitate and co-ordinate. The Government must see to it that offenders are punished. But the most important issue is beefing up civil society. At its core are the family and the church. Any factors impeding a healthy family life must simply be addressed - poverty, unemployment, obscure social dens, crime and the culture of violence. Family values must be strengthened.]

The church is the most important role-player in the upliftment of the moral fibre of a country. The church must never be seen as an opponent, but rather as a vital companion in the mammoth task of creating a better country for all our children.

The AEB will always be a devoted companion in the struggle for the moral upliftment of every sphere of human life in South Africa. That is the only answer, also to the question of child abuse.

Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Chairperson, rape, child abuse and family violence are frequently under-reported, partly due to the lack of power by those who are experiencing the abuse.

Children, as the most vulnerable and powerless members of society, are in some instances exposed to conditions which are hazardous to mental health. Particularly at risk are homeless children, children living in informal settlements and children whose mothers and fathers have been dehumanised by apartheid. Psychologists who care to examine South African society have confirmed the long-held view of Azapo that the sociocultural assault on bodies of black people is one of the vicious tragedies that befell our people during the apartheid regime.

One of the contributing factors to child abuse in black communities, is that the apartheid system violated the integrity of black people’s bodies to such an extent that their existential relationship with the environment has been distorted. This resulted in negative sociocultural conditions, and created negative internalised individual and collective body images, which reveal themselves in mental disturbance or distorted lifestyles.

When children grow up with drug and alcohol abuse where those who are supposed to guide them in life have distorted images of themselves, violence and abuse occur. Azapo believes that there are no simple answers and measures to this problem. To reconstruct the lives of people who were damaged by apartheid is not a simple matter.

Nkk L R MBUYAZI: Mphathisihlalo neNdlu ehloniphekile, ngifisa ukubonga ukuphatha kukamnumzane uSaloojee obewusihlalo waleli komiti ophathe ngendlela enobunono nangokucophelela lo msebenzi abewenza.

Kwezinye zezikhalazo ezivelileyo bekunezikhalazo ezivela ezindaweni zasemakhaya. Bakhalaze ngokuthi amakilinikhi akude, mhlawumbe nezingcingo kuyenzeka zingabi seduze futhi neziteshi zamaphoyisa zibe kude. Kuvelile ukuthi bancane odokotela abanolwazi olunzulu lokusebenza lo msebenzi ikakhulu ngoba ingane esuke isidlwenguliwe kwesinye isikhathi isuke isisesimeni sokungakwazi nokuzizwa ukuthi isiya ngaphandle nokuthi kufanele yenze njani. Kusuke sekuhlangene zonke izicubu zayo.

Kufanele ngalesi sikhathi kube khona udokotela oqeqeshwe ngokwanele ukuthi akwazi ukwenza lo msebenzi. Kuvelile ukuthi isibhedlela i-Red Cross yisona esisonolwazi olunzulu lokwenza lo msebenzi. Bayahlupheka emakhaya ngoba abanabo abantu abaqeqeshwe ngokugcwele ukuthi benze lo msebenzi. Abakwazi nokuwabika kahle amacala aqondene nokudlwengulwa kwezingane.

Kuvelile ukuthi kuba khona amasiko enziwayo njengokuthi kugezwe amagceke kukhishwe nenhlawulo. Kuye kuthi uma ingane isidlwenguliwe bese abazali bayo bebona ukuthi kungcono ukuthi kugezwe amagceke noma kuhlawulwe. Ngakho- ke sithi lowo mkhuba mawuphele lapho izingane zizodlwengulwa bese kuthiwa kungcono kugezwe amagceke noma kukhokhwe inhlawulo bese kuthi lowo owenze lokho agcine engabanjwanga noma icala ligcine liphelile.

Okunye okuvelile ukuthi sekuphele ubuntu lapho ingane ibihlala kwagogo noma kwamakhelwane ayibheke ukuze zingahlali nje zodwa ngoba okunye okuvelayo ukuthi izingane zihlala zodwa zingabhekwe muntu.

Okunye okube kubi kakhulu ukuthi kube khona abaqophi bezithombe abathi bazothatha udaba oluphathelene nodaba lwengane uTshepang benze isithombe ngalo, siyovezwa emazweni aphesheya ikakhulukazi koBrithani. Ikomiti likubone alangakuthakasela lokhu. Bathi igama lalesi sithombe kuzoba i-Dark Heart okuyisithombe okubonakala ukuthi kusasa kuyothi le ngane uma ikhula izibone, ibone kuqoshwe ngayo isithombe sokuthi yake yadlwengulwa ngelinye ilanga nabanye besibuka. Akuyona into ezoba yinhle le. Ngakho-ke sithi, phansi ngabaqophi balesi sithombe! Sithi, phansi!

Ziyothini lezi zingane kusasa uma sezibona esithombeni ukuthi zigcina sezenziwe kanje. Ngifisa futhi ukuveza ukuthi kube khona lezi zingane, abafowethu abakhulume ngaphambi kwami bakushilo ukuthi izingane ezazidlwenguliwe zazidlwengulwe zikanyekanye ziningi. Kuvelile ukuthi bezizisholo ngokwazo ukuthi kwenzeka kanjani. Lokhu kwenzeka ngenxa yokuthi zacela ukugibela emotweni thize ezayitholayo ayabe isazisa lapho ezaziya khona. Bazivalela endlini ethile zahlala kuleyo ndlu belokhu bezidlwengula izinsuku zilandelana. Kwakuyinto ebuhlungu kakhulu lena eyazwakala kule nto. (Translation of Zulu speech follows.)

[Mrs L R MBUYAZI: Chairperson and honourable House, I would like to thank Mr Saloojee, the former chairperson of this committee, for the neat and careful way in which he performed his work.

Among the complaints that were put forward, were complaints from the rural areas. People complained that clinics are far from them, and sometimes it happens that telephones are not close to them, as well as the police stations. It became clear that there are very few doctors who have deep knowledge about doing this job, especially because sometimes one finds that a child who has been raped is in a state, cannot feel that she needs to go to the toilet and does not know what she should do. At these times all her muscles are contracted.

At times like these there should be a doctor who is well trained to do this job. It became clear that the Red Cross Hospital is the only one that has a good knowledge of this job. In the rural areas they fail, because they do not have people who are fully trained to do this job. They fail even to report properly the cases regarding the rape of children.

It also became clear that some traditions are being followed, like cleaning the homestead and paying some penalties. When a child has been raped, the parents feel that they should clean the homestead or a penalty should be paid. Therefore, we say, that the habit should stop where a child was raped and the homestead was cleaned, followed by the payment of a penalty, because the rapist will go free and his case will end just there.

Another thing that was discovered was that humanity is no longer to be found among people, because in the past a child was left with a granny or an uncle to look after her so that she would not be left alone. Now it has been discovered that children are left alone.

Another very bad thing that was discovered was that photographers would take a child-related issue, like that of Tsepang, and take a photo, and then that photo would be published overseas, especially in Britain. The committee saw this and it was not happy with it. They said the name of this photo should be Dark Heart, seeing that it is a photo that this child will see when she has grown up. She will see her photo, one that was taken after she was raped, and others will see it too. This is not a good thing. Therefore, we say: Down with the people who took this photo, down! We say: Down!

What will these children say in future when they see that they ended up being shown to everyone like that. I would like to tell you that there were children, mentioned by former speakers, who were said to have been raped as a group. It became clear, when they told the story themselves, as to what happened. This happened because they asked for a lift in a certain car, which did not take them where they wanted to go. They locked the children in a certain house, where they raped them repeatedly on a daily basis. It was a painful thing that emerged from this story.]

Mnr D V BLOEM: Voorsitter, ek wil ‘n versoek rig aan die Huis dat almal vir ‘n oomblik stilbly en dink aan die gehuil en die gekreun van ‘n tweejarige baba wat verkrag word. Ek wil hê dat mense in die Huis vir ‘n oomblik moet stilbly en dink aan ‘n blinde dogter wat verkrag word. Ek wil hê mense moet vir ‘n oomblik stilbly en dink aan ‘n gestremde wat haarself nie kan help nie, terwyl sy verkrag word. Ek wil hê dat mense vir ‘n oomblik stilbly en dink aan ‘n skooldogter wat skool toe gaan om te gaan leer en deur haar onderwyser verkrag word.

Dit was die boodskap wat ons Donderdag van klein kindertjies gekry het. Die boodskap was duidelik aan ons. Ek is gevra om hierdie boodskap aan die Huis oor te dra: Geen verkragter moet borg of parool kry nie. Hierdie verkragters moet in gevangenisse verwyder word van die gewone gevangenes. Hulle moet in gevangenisse gesit word soos C-Max in Pretoria. Hierdie mense moet voel dat wat hulle aan ons kinders doen, ons nie gaan goedkeur nie. Ons moet sorg dat die boodskap baie duidelik uitkom. Ons in die Parlement is ernstig en ons wil ‘n toekoms bou.

As ons hulle toelaat om ons kinders te verkrag, gaan ons nie mense soos die Speaker hê wat hier kan kom praat nie. Ons gaan nie ‘n toekoms hê van lede wat hier sit nie. Watter toekoms het ons, as ons hierdie mense gaan toelaat?

Ek wil in hierdie laaste paar minute wat ek het, my tot ons mans hier in die Parlement rig. Ons mans kom nie baie duidelik en openlik uit om hierdie euwel teen te staan nie. Ons mans kom nie sterk genoeg na vore om hierdie mans te wys wat klein kindertjies verkrag dat ons as wetmakers nie tevrede is nie. [Applous.] As daar ‘n hofsaak is soos dié van Tsepang in Upington, sien ons net vroue met plakkate staan. Ons sien nie mans in die optogte nie. Ek wil ‘n uitdaging aan mans van alle kante rig, as daar ‘n hofsaak is van ‘n verkragter, dat ons sal gaan en wys ons is nie tevrede hiermee nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr D V BLOEM: Chairperson, I would like to address a request to the House that everyone remain silent and think of the crying and moaning of a two- year-old baby being raped. I want people in this House to be quiet for a minute and think about a blind girl being raped. I want people to be quiet for a moment and think about a disabled person who cannot help herself, while she is being raped. I want people to be quiet for a moment and think about a schoolgirl who goes to school to learn and is raped by her teacher.

This was the message we got on Thursday from small children. The message was clear to us. I was asked to convey this message to the House: No rapist should receive bail or parole. These rapists must be separated from the regular prisoners in prisons. They should be put in prisons like C-Max in Pretoria. These people must feel that we are not going to condone what they do to our children. We must see to it that the message is heard very clearly. We in Parliament are serious and we want to build a future.

If we allow them to rape our children, we will not have people like the Speaker who can come and speak here. We are not going to have a future of members who can sit here. What future do we have if we allow these people?

In these last few minutes which I have I would like to address myself to our men here at Parliament. We men are not coming out clearly and openly against this evil. We men are not coming out strongly enough to show these men who rape small children that we as lawmakers are not satisfied. [Applause.] When there is a court case like the one involving Tsepang in Upington, we only see women with placards. We do not see men in the demonstrations. I want to address a challenge to men from all sides, that if there is a court case involving a rapist, we should go and show that we are not satisfied with this.]

Ms J A SEMPLE: Mr Chairperson, on a point of order: Is Mr Bloem prepared to take a question.

Mr D V BLOEM: Yes, okay.

Ms J A SEMPLE: Can Mr Bloem perhaps tell us why there are no Cabinet Ministers here in the House today to hear his speech?

Mnr D V BLOEM: Mnr die Voorsitter, die Kabinetslede is reeds besig met hierdie soort ding. Die ANC is baie ernstig om hierdie probleem op te los. [Applous.] Die ANC neem hierdie probleem baie ernstig op, daarom is daar vandag hierdie debat. Ons wil ‘n baie duidelike boodskap uitstuur aan die verkragters: Ons verklaar oorlog teen verkragters. Dit moet ‘n baie duidelike boodskap wees. Ons gaan nie toelaat dat daar so met ons kinders gemaak word en ons mammas en oumas verkrag word nie. Daar gaan nie plek wees vir hulle nie.

Waarom sê ek dat hierdie mense verwyder moet word uit die gevangenisse? In die tronk verkrag hulle ook. Hulle vat die kleingeboude mannetjies en verkrag hulle in die tronk. Ons gaan hulle verwyder. Ek wil ‘n baie duidelike boodskap aan die Minister van Korrektiewe Dienste stuur: Geen verkragter moet vir borg oorweeg word nie. ``Bail’’ is uit. Ons kan ander mense oorweeg vir borgtog, maar nie vir hulle nie.

‘n Duidelike boodskap moet aan die polisie, landdroste en regters daar buite uitgestuur word: Dit is ons kinders wat verkrag word! Die polisie moet ten sterkste borg vir ‘n verkragter teenstaan. Landdroste moet borg weier en nie eens kyk na die verkragters nie. Ons het nie tyd op die hofrol vir verkragters nie. Ons is moeg vir hierdie verkragters. [Applous.] Ons wil hulle nie weer in die gemeenskap hê nie.

Dit is pynlik wanneer ‘n groot man op ‘n klein kindjie van twee jaar lê. Die hele nag lank is daai kind hulpeloos. Die kind weet nie. Daardie lid luister nie, want hy verstaan nie die pyn en die leed wat hierdie mense ervaar nie. Hy moes daar gewees het toe blinde kinders gesê het: ``Mense van die Parlement, help ons asseblief. Ons word verkrag.’’ [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr D V BLOEM: Mr Chairperson, the members of the Cabinet are already busy with this sort of thing. The ANC is very serious about solving this problem. [Applause.] The ANC takes this problem very seriously, which is why we are having this debate today. We want to send a very clear message to the rapists: We declare war against rapists. This must be a very clear message. We are not going to allow our children to be treated this way and our mothers and grandmothers to be raped. There will be no place for them.

Why do I say that these people must be removed from the prisons? In prisons they also rape. They take the slightly built men and rape them in prison. We are going to remove them. I want to send a very clear message to the Minister of Correctional Services: No rapists must be considered for bail. Bail is out. We can consider other people with regard to bail, but not them.

A clear message must be sent to the police, magistrates and judges out there: It is our children who are being raped! The police must oppose bail for a rapist most strongly. Magistrates must refuse bail and not even look at the rapists. We do not have time on the court roll for rapists. We are tired of these rapists. [Applause.] We do not want them back in the community.

It is painful when a large man lies on a small child of two years. That child is helpless for the whole night. The child does not know. That member is not listening, because he does not understand the pain and the suffering that these people experience. He should have been there when blind children said: ``People of Parliament, please help us. We are being raped.’’ [Applause.]]

Debate concluded.

Report adopted.

The House adjourned at 18:44. ____ ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of Finance  in
     the National Assembly on 19 March 2002 and referred  to  the  Joint
     Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of  Joint  Rule
     160:


     (i)     Financial  Services  Ombud  Schemes  Bill  [B  13  -  2002]
          (National Assembly - sec 75) [Bill and  prior  notice  of  its
          introduction published in Government Gazette No  23122  of  19
          March 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio  Committee  on  Finance
     of the National Assembly.
     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to  the  Joint  Tagging  Mechanism  (JTM)
     within three parliamentary working days.

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 The following papers have been tabled  and  are  now  referred  to  the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee  on
     Arts, Culture, Science and Technology and to the  Select  Committee
     on Education and Recreation:


     (a)     Annual Report  of  the  South  African  Geographical  Names
          Council for 2000-2001 [RP 28-2002].


     (b)     Annual Report of the National Museum for 2000-2002.


     (c)     Strategic Plan for Arts, Culture,  Science  and  Technology
          for 2002-2005.


 (2)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee  on
     Justice  and  Constitutional  Development  for  consideration   and
     report. The reports are also referred to the  Select  Committee  on
     Security and Constitutional Affairs for consideration and report:


     (a)      The  report  regarding  the  suspension  from  office   of
          Magistrate R M Nongema, tabled in terms of section 13(3)(c) of
          the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of 1993).


     (b)     European Convention on  Extradition,  tabled  in  terms  of
          section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (c)      Additional  Protocol  to  the   European   Convention   on
          Extradition,  tabled  in  terms  of  section  231(2)  of   the
          Constitution, 1996.


     (d)     Second Additional  Protocol  to  the  European  Convention,
          tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (e)     Explanatory Memorandum to the European Convention  and  the
          Protocols.


     (f)     SADC  Protocol  Against  Corruption,  tabled  in  terms  of
          section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.


     (g)     Explanatory Memorandum to the Protocol.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    Mr L V Ngculu has been elected as chairperson of  the  Portfolio
     Committee on Health with effect from 19 March 2002.
 (2)    Message from National Council of Provinces to National Assembly:


     Bills, subject to proposed amendments, passed by  National  Council
     of Provinces on 19 March 2002 and transmitted for consideration  of
     Council's proposed amendments:


     (i)     Copyright Amendment Bill [B 73B - 2001] (National  Assembly
             - sec 75)  (for  proposed  amendments,  see  Announcements,
             Tablings and Committee Reports, p 238).


     (ii)    Performers'  Protection  Amendment  Bill  [B  74B  -  2001]
             (National Assembly - sec 75) (for proposed amendments,  see
             Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 238).


     The Bills have been referred to the Portfolio  Committee  on  Trade
     and  Industry  of  the  National  Assembly  for  a  report  on  the
     amendments proposed by the Council.


 (3)    Message from National Council of Provinces to National Assembly:


     Bill, as amended, passed by National Council  of  Provinces  on  19
     March  2002  and  transmitted  for   consideration   of   Council's
     amendments:


     (i)     Division of Revenue Bill [B 5D - 2002]  (National  Assembly
          - sec 76).


     The amended Bill has been referred to the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Finance  for  a  report  and  recommendations  on   the   Council's
     amendments.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:

 Documents in terms of section 9(1) of the Promotion of  National  Unity
 and Reconciliation Act, 1995, regarding  the  Remuneration,  Allowances
 and  other  employment  Benefits  of  the  Staff  of  the   Truth   and
 Reconciliation Commission.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 Report of the South African Parliamentary  Observer  Mission  (Zimbabwe
 Presidential Elections: 9 - 11 March 2002).