WEDNESDAY, 8 MAY 2002 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 15:03.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

QUESTIONS AND REPLIES - see that book.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Ms M A MOLEBATSI: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the SABC 3’s Special Assignment reported a financial transaction involving trade in human body parts which occurs in Johannesburg and other parts of the country;

(2) wishes to express its disgust at and condemnation of this evil and barbaric practice; and

(3) calls on the people to co-operate with the police to wipe out this inhumane practice and to bring the perpetrators to book.

[Applause.]

Mev P W CUPIDO: Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) met skok en verontwaardiging kennis neem van die venynige aanval deur mnr Harold Baxter, ‘n ANC-lid van Worcester, op die Afrikaanse Christelike Vrouevereniging;

(2) verder kennis neem dat alhoewel die ACVV Afrikaans en Christelik georiënteerd is, dit geen persoon op grond van taal, geloof of kleur wegwys nie;

(3) ook kennis neem dat die bestuurskomitee van die ACVV verteenwoordigend van alle Suid-Afrikaners in die Wes-Kaap is en oor die afgelope 40 jaar welsynsdienste aan voorheen benadeelde gemeenskappe lewer; en

 4) 'n beroep op die ANC doen om, as hulle ernstig is met versoening,
    onverwyld die ACVV en die Afrikaanse kerkgemeenskap onvoorwaardelik
    om verskoning te vra en die betrokke raadslid te dissiplineer. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mrs P W CUPIDO: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes with shock and indignation the vicious attack by Mr Harold Baxter, an ANC councillor of Worcester, on the Afrikaanse Christelike Vrouevereniging; (2) further notes that, although the ACVV is Afrikaans and Christian orientated, it does not turn away any person based on language, religion or colour;

(3) also notes that the management committee of the ACVV is representative of all South Africans in the Western Cape and for the past 40 years has been delivering welfare services to previously disadvantaged communities; and

(4) appeals to the ANC, if they are serious about reconciliation, to apologise immediately and unconditionally to the ACVV and the Afrikaans church community and to discipline the councillor in question.]

Mr J H SLABBERT: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) applauds the combined effort of the Scorpions, police and special forensic squad in contemplating to crack down on lawyers, doctors, some members of the police and tow-truck drivers who defraud the Road Accident Fund to the tune of R300 million a year;

(2) is shocked by the abuse of passenger patients who are rushed to hand over their power of attorney and made to sign false Road Accident Fund claim forms;

(3) notes that the revenue of this fund is generated from innocent road users who consciously believe that such a fund is for a good cause, yet it falls prey to criminal elements; and

(4) wishes the team investigating the scam every possible success in their task.

Mrs Z A KOTA: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the reports on the burning of a residential building in Johannesburg and the subsequent clampdown on slumlords who let office buildings for residential purposes by the city council;

(2) believes that a lack of adequate housing in our cities provides opportunities for unscrupulous landlords to exploit the poor for self-enrichment through illegal means in most instances;

(3) calls on law-enforcement agencies to seek and arrest these slumlords in Johannesburg and wherever else in the country where there are similar transgressions;

(4) appeals to the public to co-operate with these law enforcers in bringing the perpetrators to book; and

(5) calls upon local councils to develop policies and mechanisms to ensure that blocks of flats in the inner cities are safe and sufficiently habitable.

[Applause.]

Dr P J RABIE: Chairman, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House notes that -

(1) the New NP encourages the fiscal discipline exercised by the South African Government and considers it a key component in the positive sentiment, which contributes a great deal to the current resurgence of the rand/dollar exchange rate, presently publicised towards South Africa;

(2) to date the rand proved to be the best performing currency over the past six months against the dollar, appreciating against the dollar to a five-month best level on 6 May 2002, ie R10,2944; and

(3) coupled with an increase in Sacob’s business confidence index, there is definitely a positive outlook for future economic growth.

[Applause.]

Mr S ABRAM: Chair, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the House - (1) notes the astronomical rise in food and maize prices in famine-hit Southern Africa;

(2) further notes the recent report by the Food and Agriculture Organisation, a United Nations Agency, which identified Zimbabwe and Zambia as the worst-hit countries;

(3) expresses its deep concern that we only have maize supplies sufficient for three months’ domestic consumption;

(4) calls on all respective parties to urgently extend a helping hand to each other during the upcoming meeting between SA, its neighbouring countries and the UN agencies in order to minimise both short-term and long-term effects of starvation; and

(5) calls on the Government to consider measures contributing to affordable maize products for our nation.

Ms M M SOTYU: Chair, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the Deloitte and Touche report that white-collar crime, dominated by money laundering, costs South Africa between R35 and R40 billion in 1996;

(2) reiterates the Government’s commitment to stamp out crime and corruption; and

(3) calls on the people to work with the law-enforcement officers to stamp out crime and corruption.

[Applause.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chair, I give notice that I shall move on behalf of the UCDP:

That the House -

(1) urges its members to gird their loins in preparation for the World Summit on Sustainable Development due to be held in Johannesburg later this year;

(2) wakes up to the fact that the United Nations agencies are not keen to make technical support available and that South Africa and other developing nations should not tire of lobbying for support for the solution of socioeconomic problems such as the eradication of poverty and the provision of sanitation within the region;

(3) challenges the international community not to confine the summit to issues around the environment only; and

(4) calls on other African countries, in the spirit of self-reliance, or Vukuzenzele, to buy into this venture as a way leading to the envisaged African Union.

Dr S E M PHEKO: Chairman, I give notice that at the next sitting of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the Kingdom of Lesotho will hold national elections on 25 May
       2002;


   (b)  several parties are taking part in these elections under a new
       constitution which provides for 80 constituency representatives
       and 40 proportional seats; and


   (c)  the PAC has visited all major political parties in Lesotho, who
       all hold that South Africa is their most important neighbour and
       must play an impartial role so that Lesotho's politics can
       stabilise their country, especially following the military
       intervention of SADC led by South Africa; and

(2) therefore believes that in order for our country to be seen not to be interfering in the internal affairs of Lesotho, all reported visits to Lesotho by the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, the Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry and the Minister of Foreign Affairs be postponed until after the Lesotho elections.

Mr L V J NGCULU: Chairperson, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes with concern and disapproval the incident of a pregnant woman who was forced to give birth to her baby after being denied attention at a hospital in Khayelitsha;

(2) believes that all South Africans have a constitutional right to quality health care and human dignity;

(3) further believes that all civil servants have an obligation to uphold the principle of Batho Pele and that acts of this nature diminish the image of the noble nursing profession in the eyes of the public;

(4) commends the police for the assistance rendered to the mother and the baby; and

(5) condemns without reservation all those responsible for this inhumane act. [Applause.]

Mnr A J BOTHA: Ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis:

(1) kennis neem van die ANC se siniese plan om vakante ambassadeursposte, sonder beginsel of meriete, aan te wend as ‘n vangnet vir Nuwe NP-lede in die Parlement;

(2) sy afkeur duidelik uitspreek oor die beskadiging van Suid-Afrika se buitelandse beeld deur hierdie opportunistiese misbruik en die najaag van matelose magshonger;

(3) daarop let dat die spitsberaad oor morele regenerasie ‘n skandalige vermorsing van openbare fondse was, omdat die regerende party sy mag opportunisties misbruik om verkose openbare verteenwoordigers om te koop om hulle grondwetlike onderneming te verraai vir persoonlike voordeel; en

(4) die ANC aanmaan om nie Suid-Afrikaanse ambassades en missies in te rig net vir meer sitplekke op die soustrein vir daardie mense nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr A J BOTHA: I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move:

That the House:

(1) notes the ANC’s cynical plan to utilise vacant ambassadorial posts, without principle or merit, as a net with which to catch New NP members in Parliament;

(2) clearly expresses its censure about the damaging of South Africa’s image abroad by this opportunistic abuse and the pursuit of an excessive appetite for power;

(3) notes that the summit on moral regeneration was a shameful waste of public funds, because the governing party is opportunistically abusing its power to bribe elected public representatives to betray their constitutional undertaking for personal gain; and

(4) urges the ANC not to equip South African embassies and missions simply for more seats on the gravy train for those people.

[Interjections.]]

Mr V B NDLOVU: Chair, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) acknowledges with satisfaction that the National Lottery Fund is to increase the funding of social projects to R1,2 billion; and

(2) thanks the Minister of Trade and Industry and also expresses the hope that this House will be kept informed as to how and to whom these funds are allocated.

Mr G G OLIPHANT: Chair, I give notice that on the next siting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House –

(1) notes that Minister of Minerals and Energy, the hon Phumzile Mlambo- Ngcuka, announced that the liquid and fuels industry performance in achieving black economic development targets will be subjected to a system of recognition, incentives and penalties;

(2) believes that this reflects commitment by the Government to transform this sector to be representative of the country’s demographics;

(3) welcomes the announcement by the Minister; and

(4) calls on all stakeholders to co-operate with the Government in realising the objectives of black economic empowerment in this sector.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! It seems to me that we have time for two more motions - am I right? [Interjections.] Mnr J W LE ROUX: Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) uiters besorg is oor die hoë vlakke van besoedeling in die algemeen en plastieksakbesoedeling in die besonder;

(2) alle pogings sal steun om plastieksakbesoedeling teen te werk;

(3) opvoeding, hersirkulering en effektiewe afvalbestuur aanmoedig om deel te vorm van die oplossing vir hierdie ernstige probleem;

(4) dit verblydend vind dat die Regering wéér met die vervaardigers en gebruikers van dun plastieksakke in gesprek tree; en

 5) die vasstelling van 'n wen-wen-oplossing aanmoedig wat tot gevolg
    sal hê dat plastieksakbesoedeling gestaak word en dat die
    vervaardigingsektor as werkverskaffer nie ernstig benadeel word nie.

(Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr J W LE ROUX: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) is extremely concerned at the high levels of pollution in general and plastic bag pollution in particular;

(2) will support all efforts to counter plastic bag pollution;

(3) encourages education, recycling and effective waste management to form part of the solution to this serious problem;

(4) finds it heartening that the Government is once again engaged in talks with the producers and consumers of thin plastic bags; and

(5) encourages the establishment of a win-win solution which will result in an end to plastic bag pollution without the production sector as employer being seriously prejudiced.]

Prof L M MBADI: Chair, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the House I will move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) notes the continuing struggle to survive by Noupoort patients following another report that three patients were brutally assaulted;

(2) supports the Minister of Social Development in his calls to close down this institution;

(3) expresses the hope that the Minister will effectively deal with similar institutions which violate basic human rights; and

(4) further calls on the Government to protect the human rights of all citizens of this country to demonstrate that never again will we tolerate human rights abuse in this country, no matter what the circumstances.

[Applause.]

Miss M N BUTHELEZI: Chair, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House –

(1) notes that:

   (a)  Minister Phumzile Mlambo Ngcuka announced a comprehensive mining
       review by the mine inspectorate throughout 2002 to  curb  mining
       accidents; and


   (b)  whilst the loss of lives in South  Africa's  mining  sector  has
       been higher than in other major mining areas of the  world,  the
       number of deaths in South Africa's mining industry has  declined
       since the introduction of the Mine  Health  and  Safety  Act  of
       1996;

(2) welcomes the announcement made by the Minister; and

(3) calls on mine bosses to co-operate with the Government to ensure that mines are safe workplaces for workers.

[Applause.]

Mnr C H F GREYLING: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek wil net weet of dit in orde en parlementêr is vir ‘n lid van hierdie Raad om te sê dat ander lede van hierdie Raad omgekoop is om in sekere poste te dien - soos wat die agb Andries Botha gesê het.

Mnr D V BLOEM: Dis ‘n skande, Andries! Skande! (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr C H F GREYLING: Chairperson, I would just like to know whether it is in order and parliamentary for a member of this House to say that other members of this House were bribed to serve in certain positions - as the hon Andries Botha said.

Mr D V BLOEM: It is a disgrace, Andries! A disgrace!]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! As far as we can make out, the reference was to political parties. But I will double-check the Hansard to see whether any reference was made to any individual member of this House.

If the remark was made to the member, then that would be unacceptable and unparliamentary. But if it was a reference to the political party as a whole, then that will pass muster. Let me have a look at the Hansard and come back to you on that.

                      AIRPLANE CRASH IN NIGERIA

                         (Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes with sadness the tragic airplane crash in Kano, Nigeria, on Sunday, 5 May 2002, which claimed 148 lives;

(2) further notes that amongst the casualties was Nigeria’s Minister of Sport, Ishaya Mark Aku;

(3) mourns with the people of Nigeria; and

(4) sends its heartfelt condolences to the Nigerian Parliament and the people, and to those who lost loved ones in this tragedy.

Agreed to.

The House adjourned at 17:18. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 The Minister of Health submitted the Wetsontwerp op die Herroeping  van
 die Wet  op  die  Gesondheidskenkingsfonds  [W  20  -  2002]  (National
 Assembly - sec 75) to the Speaker and the Chairperson on  8  May  2002.
 This is the official translation  of  the  Health  Donations  Fund  Act
 Repeal Bill [B 20 - 2002] (National  Assembly  -  sec  75),  which  was
 introduced in the National Assembly by the Minister on 29 April 2002.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

Adv S P Holomisa  has  been  appointed  as  Chairperson  of  the  Joint
Constitutional Review Committee with effect from 8 May 2002.


Mr A C Nel has been appointed as Deputy  Chief  Whip  of  the  Majority
Party with effect from 7 May 2002.


Mr L T Landers has been appointed as Chairperson of the Joint  Standing
Committee on Ethics and Members' Interests with effect from 8 May 2002.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Education:

 Report of  the  Study  Team  on  the  Implementation  of  the  National
 Qualifications Framework.

1. The Minister of Finance:

 Annual Report and Financial  Statements  of  the  National  Development
 Agency for 2000-2001, including the Report of  the  Auditor-General  on
 the Financial Statements for 2000-2001 [RP 28-2002].

1. The Minister of Labour:

 Annual Report and Financial Statements of  the  Public  Service  Sector
 Education and Training Authority for 2000-2001, including the Financial
 Statements of Auditor-General on the  Financial  Statements  for  2000-
 2001.