FRIDAY, 24 MAY, 2002 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 09:01.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr J H NASH: Madam Speaker, on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that thousands of pupils from Langa, Cape Town, marched demanding safety in schools and raised their plight on school vandalism prevalent in the area;

(2) further notes that this march was organised by the Langa Safer School Cluster and supported by the Congress of South African Students and the South African Democratic Teachers’ Union;

(3) echoes the calls by the pupils to make places of learning safe; and

(4) calls on the community of Langa to work with police to ensure that learning materials and schools are safe. [Applause.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice on behalf of the DP that I shall move on the next sitting day of the House:

That the House -

(1) condemns the scavenger politics being indulged in by representatives of the ANC and the New NP; (2) places on record that it accepts the word of Tony Leon above the word of someone like Jurgen Harksen, and notes that unlike President Mbeki’s evasions when it comes to his dealings with Mr Vito Palazzolo, Mr Leon has nothing to hide in respect of Mr Harksen or anyone else; and

(3) regrets that the Premier of the Western Cape is being permitted to use taxpayers’ money to pay off old political scores in the most disreputable fashion.

[Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr B W DHLAMINI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) regrets the treatment meted out by the principal and the school governing body to the teacher of Simon Primary School, KwaZulu-Natal, Miss Sibongile Mkhize, who faces dismissal because she revealed her HIV status;

(2) further regrets that the action of the governing body and the principal flies in the face of human rights as nobody should be discriminated against because of his or her health status;

(3) applauds this woman for coming out in order to destigmatise the disease even as she has stigmatised herself now; and

(4) hopes that the Human Rights Commission, to which she has appealed, will rule in her favour and thus grant her emotional and psychological reprieve and dispel the perception that HIV/Aids renders a person a social pariah. [Applause.]

Ms M M RAMAKABA-LESIEA: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House - (1) notes that the Cape High Court sentenced a 42-year-old man to an effective 23 years for murdering and indecently assaulting an 11-year- old girl;

(2) commends members of the SAPS investigation team for bringing this perpetrator to book; and

(3) welcomes the sentences meted out against this criminal. [Applause.]

Dr W A ODENDAAL: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the New NP I hereby give notice that I shall move at the next sitting:

That the House notes -

(1) the outrageous and vicious statement by the Chief Whip of the DP, the hon Gibson, calling the Desai Commission a kangaroo court that is not impartial or competent and stating that Judge Desai is ``acting more like an ANC branch chairman than like an independent investigator’’; (2) that the DP has always been the party condemning other parties and individuals who dare to criticise judicial commissions of judges;

(3) that this unprecedented attack on a judge and judicial commission is a clear sign that the DP/DA has abandoned yet another core principle of liberalism, namely the respect for the judiciary, in favour of political expediency; and

(4) that this slanderous personal attack on the judge diminishes the hon Gibson and his party, and serves as confirmation of the DP/DA’s morally and politically corrupt modus operandi. [Applause.]

Mr S ABRAM: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the furore caused by the reported use of offensive and
       derogatory words in reference to South Africans of Asian descent
       in a song composed by well-known musician Mbongeni Ngema;


   (b)  that with the advent of our democratic Constitution we have
       progressed immensely on the road to nation-building; and


   (c)  that the reported unfortunate use of such words is divisive and
       negates the cause of nation-building;

(2) condemns the use of the reported words;

(3) calls on South Africans to reject all divisive forces and to relentlessly pursue the cause of patriotism and nation-building; and

(4) calls on musician Ngema to withdraw the reported offensive song and to apologise to South Africans. Phansi ngoNgema! [Down with Ngema!] [Applause.] Mr J P CRONIN: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the unprecedented attack on Judge Siraj Desai by the Chief Whip of the DP, Mr Douglas Gibson, in which he attacked the integrity of a member of the judiciary, likening the Desai Commission to a kangaroo court;

(2) believes that such an attack is inappropriate, unseemly and slanderous, and tarnishes the image of his party and this House; and

(3) calls on the DP to respect the integrity of the judiciary, and for Mr Gibson to cease using such tactics to divert the attention of the electorate from some highly suspect activities of his party and its leadership. [Applause.]

Dr C P MULDER: Mev die Speaker, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van die Huis namens die FF gaan voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) daarvan kennis neem dat ‘n oorweldigende meerderheid, naamlik 90,8%, van die huidige studente aan die PU vir CHO hulle ten gunste van die behoud van die woord ``Christelik’’ in die universiteit se naam uitgespreek het in ‘n referendum wat pas gehou is;

(2) die universiteit gelukwens met die proses wat gevolg is, waar studente in die saak geken is en hulle duidelik uitspraak gegee het; en

(3) die hoop uitspreek dat die universiteit sal besef dat die groter gemeenskap van die universiteit, naamlik die studente, oud-studente en ouers, geken sal moet word in besluitnemingsprosesse wat die karakter van die universiteit raak en dat hy nie op sy eie hieroor kan besluit nie. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.) [Dr C P MULDER: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the FF:

That the House -

(1) takes note that an overwhelming majority, namely 90,8%, of the present students at the Potchefstroom University for Christian Higher Education have expressed that they are in favour of retaining the word “Christian” in the name of the University at a referendum held recently;

(2) congratulates the university with the process followed, where students were consulted on the matter and they could clearly give their opinion; and

(3) expresses the hope that the university will realise that the larger community of the university, namely the students, ex-students and parents will have to be consulted with regards to the decision-making process which affects the character of the university and that the university cannot make autonomous decisions.] Dr A I VAN NIEKERK: Madam Speaker, I give notice that at the next sitting I shall move on behalf of the FA:

That the House -

(1) takes note that -

   (a)  the President has pardoned some farm murderers who claimed that
       the crimes were committed as part of the political struggle;


   (b)  the agricultural community was lead to believe by numerous
       investigations that farm murders were not politically motivated
       but were rather crime-related and done by common criminals;


   (c)  due to this contradiction, the implication exists that political
       parties in this House were directly or indirectly involved in
       the murders of farmers, their wives and farm workers; and


   (d)  the pardon of so-called farm murderers on political grounds
       implies that murdering people on farms was part of the political
       struggle by political parties present in this House; and

(2) calls on political parties who support the pardon to clearly state where they were involved in murdering farmers and farm workers as part of the political struggle or not. [Applause.]

Mr P A C HENDRICKSE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the Western Cape government has increased its housing budget by
       about R130 million a year for the next three years; and


   (b)  the province will have R1,2 billion at its disposal over this
       period to help reduce the housing shortage;

(2) believes that this demonstrates the commitment of the ANC/New NP-led Government to build a better life for all in the Western Cape through the provision of affordable housing; and

(3) welcomes the budgetary allocations for housing in the Western Cape, as this will contribute positively in addressing the legacy of apartheid in the province. [Applause.]

Mr W J SEREMANE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House -

(1) recalls how the Munnik Commission of Inquiry was used by P W Botha as a witch-hunt to expose the financing of ANC activities; (2) notes the uncanny similarities between that exercise and the Desai Commission; and

(3) therefore resolves to request the Chief Justice of South Africa to consider whether judges should continue accepting appointments as chairpersons of commissions of inquiry which are clearly politically motivated and which could be used for the purpose of paying off political scores, the result of which is to drag judges into political controversy and expose them to public criticism. [Applause.]

Dr U ROOPNARAIN: Madam Speaker, I give notice that at the next sitting of the House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  a recent study in the United States found that ``having women in
       the top management teams resulted in higher earnings and greater
       shareholder wealth''; and


   (b)  a study by the World Bank concluded that women contribute to
       good governance and that ``where the influence of women in
       public life is higher, the level of corruption is lower; and

(2) should therefore strive to be gender sensitive and gender balanced, as the personal quality and integrity of woman leaders will make a difference in the lives of the citizenry. [Applause.]

Mr M E GEORGE: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that Thabang Khumalo, who escaped from prison and killed a station commander in Soweto, was rearrested by police last night;

(2) commends the investigating officers, the SAPS and all those who made it possible for this criminal to be rearrested;

(3) calls on the justice system to impose an appropriate sentence on this cold-blooded killer; and

(4) warns those who follow Thabang Khumalo that the law will deal with them harshly should they engage in these criminal actions. [Applause.]

Mr J DURAND: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move at the next sitting:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the hon Mr Leon has decided to avoid the media and the public
       with regard to the Harksen revelations, indicating that he was
       part and parcel of the funding scandal;
   (b)  instead of facing the media and the public to clarify his
       actions, he decided to send in more junior colleagues to try to
       explain the unexplainable; and


   (c)  the hon Mr Leon is still in hiding and avoiding contact with the
       press and the public and therefore has not shed some light on
       his involvement and actions; and

(2) calls on the DA to -

   (a)  instruct their leader to face the media and the public; and


   (b)  put the hon Mr Leon on leave until all the revelations have been
       fully investigated. [Applause.]

Ms ANNELIZÉ VAN WYK: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the UDM at the next sitting of the House:

That the House -

(1) notes the contradictory statements by the Eastern Cape Health Department’s permanent secretary and the Eastern Cape Health MEC, which creates confusion regarding whether or not the province’s eight cash-strapped SA National Tuberculosis, Santa, hospitals have received their subsidies;

(2) further notes the importance of these hospitals, especially in a province that has experienced a TB crisis since the 1950s, and duly notes that these hospitals run at one-eighth of the cost to the state when compared to provincial hospitals;

(3) expresses concern at the bureaucratic bungling by state officials, especially in the light of the fact that TB is the province’s biggest killer; and

(4) calls on the Minister of Health to intervene urgently and address this issue adequately, failing which the Health MEC should resign, as many people’s lives depend on efficiency and such incompetence is unacceptable.

Ms M P COETZEE-KASPER: Madam Speaker, I give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that six men escaped unhurt when their 30m boat ran aground six sea miles off Kommetjie when the engine of their boat failed yesterday;

(2) further notes that the National Sea Rescue Institute (NSRI) rescued the six men and brought them to safety; and

(3) commends the volunteers of the NSRI for saving the lives of these six men. [Applause.]

Ms F HAJAIG: Madam Speaker, I give notice that at the next sitting I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, the hon Aziz Pahad, arrived with a South African Government delegation in Japan on Tuesday to establish a formal framework for discussion set to begin soon between the two countries;

(2) further notes that the delegation includes senior officials from the Departments of Foreign Affairs, Health, Trade and Industry and of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology;

(3) believes that formal trade relations, cultural and social exchange programmes between the two countries will enhance people-to-people relationships; and

(4) wishes the Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs, the hon Aziz Pahad, and his delegation good luck in their mission. [Applause.]

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: I have been requested by the backbenchers of the IFP to raise the fact that because of the hot air coming from both sides, they are getting cooked back there. [Laughter.]

                          LESOTHO ELECTIONS

                         (Draft resolution)

Mr F BHENGU: Madam Speaker, I move without notice on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the people of Lesotho will go to the polls on Saturday, 25 May
       2002; and


   (b)  the South African Government will send an elections observer
       team to Lesotho to observe the elections;

(2) calls on the people of Lesotho to -

   (a)  go to the polls; and
   (b)  work towards ensuring that the results of these elections are a
       credible expression of the will of the people of Lesotho.

Agreed to.

                 BAFANA BAFANA'S VICTORY OVER TURKEY

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Speaker, I hereby move without notice:

That the House -

(1) celebrates with Bafana Bafana on their 2-0 win over Turkey to clinch the Reunification Cup;

(2) congratulates the South African team on their inspirational performance; and

(3) assures them that the whole of South Africa is behind them as they begin their World Cup campaign. Agreed to.

                          AFRICA UNITY DAY

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr F BHENGU: Madam Speaker, I move without notice on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party:

That the House -

(1) notes that tomorrow, 25 May, is Africa Unity Day;

(2) believes that the unity of Africa is a critical foundation stone for the development of our country and region, and for Africa to take its rightful place in the international community; and

(3) pledges to work for the unity, peace, prosperity and development of the African continent.

Agreed to.

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Speaker, there is certainly no objection. We have no problem with the motion at all. But, the general convention of the House is that if one proposes a motion without notice, it is on behalf of the House and not on behalf of a political party.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Yes, hon member, it is on behalf of the House. What the hon member is saying is that he is standing in for the Chief Whip of the Majority Party to move the motion on behalf of the House. [Interjections.]

EXTENSION OF DATE FOR FILLING OF VACANCY IN COMMISSION FOR GENDER EQUALITY

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr F BHENGU: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move the draft resolution printed in his name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That, notwithstanding the resolution adopted on 20 March 2002, the date by which the Ad Hoc Committee on Filling of Vacancy in Commission for Gender Equality must complete its task be extended from 24 May 2002 to 24 June 2002.

Agreed to.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 14 - Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:

The MINISTER OF ARTS, CULTURE, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Madam Speaker, my colleagues in this House, visitors who have come to participate as this important Vote is debated, the young people of our country whom I see up there in the galleries - I am very happy that they are here this morning - all the ladies and gentlemen present who work for the Government, the press and the administrative staff of our Parliament, I consider this an excellent time to introduce the Budget Vote for my Ministry. The month of May has been memorable indeed for culture and science. It has been a month of homecomings, a gathering to the hearth.

We have welcomed back two travellers in space and time - travellers whose rather different experiences capture our diversity, travellers who, in many ways, embody our national motto: !Ke E: /Xarra //Ke [Unity in diversity]. But more than this links these travellers. Their respective journeys speak to both science and culture, and, beyond this, to ethics and values.

The first traveller is known as Sarah Baartman, a name given to this slave woman by her owners, certainly not the name by which her own people knew her. Sarah Baartman is home at last. Her long walk to dignity is nearly over. Sarah Baartman’s life and death epitomise the wrongs of the particular colonialism that our part of the globe was subjected to. Identified as an object of curiosity by an English surgeon, Sarah was lured to Europe, there to be paraded as a supposed freak and used as an object of sexual pleasure. She died impoverished in Paris at the beginning of the century that saw the emergence of the eugenics movement, which spewed forth theories of race and superiority, and in which the genesis of Nazi ideology and our own apartheid system was laid.

After complex negotiations with the French government - negotiations, that required the passage of a special law in their National Assembly - Sarah Baartman was welcomed back to the land of her forebears. We express our thanks to the Presidency and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs for their work in this regard. Particular recognition is due to my colleague Mrs Brigitte Mabandla for spearheading this initiative and to Prof Tobias for his assistance, freely provided over many years, and in particular for his leadership in negotiations with Prof Henry de Lumley of the Musee de L’Homme in Paris. Our appreciation is also extended to the people of France for upholding their national credo.

The fuelling of racial divisiveness is something that we shall always resist, and the vigour with which we have pursued the rights of Ms Baartman is testimony to that. It is our intention, finally, to inter Sarah Baartman with honour and dignity next Women’s Day, 9 August 2002. [Applause.] We respect our human and cultural diversity. We would ask and expect others to do the same. Sarah has travelled home through time.

The other traveller who came home safely is our start-up innovator, Mark Shuttleworth, the space traveller. His journey was different. Mark was not abducted; he paid his way. It is a tribute to his personal energy and the education system that nurtured him that he also earned the respect of the space professionals with whom he worked. I would like to welcome Mark Shuttleworth home. He has served as an inspiration with his own special brand of audacity.

In our context, I would prefer to think of it in terms of accountability. Cabinet has declared its commitment towards research and technology development as an important component of economic growth. My department is now finalising the national strategy for research and development that is based on a number of new technology missions. Alongside support for existing research portfolios in health, minerals and agriculture, we wish to launch specific thrusts in biotechnology and information technology, and see a concerted drive to harness a range of technologies toward poverty reduction. The strategy will be informed by the identification of objective indicators that will allow careful monitoring and assessment of performance. Since 1994 we have nurtured and safeguarded the African continent’s remarkable science, engineering and technology capability, which resides mainly in South Africa. The period of transition marked the removal of the technology missions that dominated research and development in the 1970s and 1980s. Military dominance, energy self-sufficiency and an aggressive nuclear programme were the critical missions. South Africa has now beaten its Redistribution and Development swords into plough shears, focusing on health, household foods, food security, advanced manufacturing and human resource development. These are practical outcomes of public science in support of a better quality of life for all and a robust, competitive and thriving economy.

As I have reported in earlier years, the science system has been extensively reviewed and many parts are now world class. In the millennial year 2000, President Mbeki received the output of the research and technology foresight, which covered the future technology challenges in sectors of critical importance to the economy and our society.

At the Cabinet lekgotla in January this year, we were requested to produce a national research and development strategy to address critical issues for the future of the country. The science and technology system of South Africa, as robust as it sometimes appears, was designed for five million people rather than the true figure of 40 million.

With the removal of the apartheid technology missions between 1990 and 1994, Government R&D spending decreased significantly. This Government has maintained investment in real terms, but new missions and new resources are critical to the future of South Africa. Both Government and the private sector need to do more. It would be premature to elaborate on the full scope of the strategy that we will present to Government during the next quarter, but the strategic analysis is clear: knowledge economies need sustained high levels of Government R&D and require innovation partnerships with the private sector to stimulate and sustain wealth creation.

As we reflect on the challenge of serving all our people, we celebrate the leadership of institutions like the iThemba Laboratories - iThemba Labs, as it is called. Many of the members might remember it as the National Accelerator Centre based in Faure in the Western Cape. The commitment and energy of this national facility in working across universities and technikons to produce students, mentor learners and continue to strengthen science and health programmes is a credit to the highest values of the scientific enterprise and community. [Applause.]

Our science councils and national facilities should not just be encouraged to follow this path, but should be specifically mandated to educate and train more scientists and engineers in the years to come within the more flexible and responsive tertiary education system we intend to build.

The strategy we intend to present to Cabinet will achieve significant growth rates in the number of new young scientists for South Africa. Where practical, we intend to draw back to the country those researchers and engineers who left our shores because they believed they had reached the ceiling of their personal development. For those who remain abroad, we have developed initiatives such as the SA Skills Network Abroad, commonly know as Sansa, hosted by the National Research Foundation. Sansa is developing a committed diaspora that retains positive intellectual and emotional links to South Africa.

We are going to give special attention to technikons to strengthen their technology support for SMMEs. We are expanding the Tsumisano Technology Stations Programme, partly funded by European money, and the Godisa innovation and incubator programme, which is one of our partnerships with the Department of Trade and Industry and the European Union. The EU is providing support and proving to be a valuable partner in these projects.

As Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, I was very honoured to launch, during March, in Cape Town, the report on 10 years of research co-operation between the EU and the SADC community, together with the new ambassador to South Africa, the hon Michael Lake. Adding to the significance of the occasion was the presence of the African, Caribbean and the Pacific nations’ Secretary-General, the hon Mr Kulungani.

The critical role of science, technology and innovation to achieve our objectives in Nepad and in the World Summit on Sustainable Development must not be underestimated. Our purposeful efforts to address poverty and the burden of disease will be strengthened if we avoid being passive recipients of the technologies and knowledge of others, and become full partners in achieving a knowledge-based economy. This will require the consistent focus of the athlete achieving the goal, winning the race.

The success of our science, engineering and technology week this year convinces me that we are raising the level of awareness and interest in scientific careers among our young people. We need to support their dreams by providing challenging and effective innovation missions to reduce poverty and, hence, the use of ICT in our lives, commerce, better use of our natural resources and build on the increased strengths of our export industry. The coelacanth, the Southern skies and oceans, Antarctica, the cradle of humankind and the Cape floristic kingdom are part of our heritage, but also of our future.

A new generation of young scientists need to be inspired by the endless frontiers of scientific endeavour. My department also focuses on out-of- school educational initiatives to complement the curriculum in classroom- based activities of the Department of Education. This is proving to be a valuable partnership, but we remain seriously concerned that less than 5% of matriculants receive university exemptions in maths and science.

I salute the dedicated science and maths teachers and volunteers who commit to out-of-school programmes in maths and science to inspire the future Mark Shuttleworths of our nation. These programmes and the NGOs who have developed them need increased support. We need additional creative initiatives to make these subjects not simply accessible, but exciting and vibrant. The dedicated efforts of these teachers and NGOs have paid dividends with hundreds of passes. We now need them in thousands. [Applause.]

During the past financial year we allocated and tracked the expenditure of all the poverty relief money allocated to our department. We are going to ensure that these programmes move people out of poverty and create new entrepreneurs and SMMEs. The DACST poverty relief initiatives spur on craft industries and technology-based small enterprises, and embrace the use of resources such as natural fibres for paper-making and textiles. The intention is that the enterprises becomes sustainable and continue to create expanding employment through training and adoption of effective technologies, as well as effective market development strategies.

If we were asked how we are doing in this regard, the answer would somewhat have to be circumscribed. Our spending, which is currently estimated to be 0,7% of GDP, is low and has been steady at this level for the past few years. In the early 90s the previous government wound up major strategic missions in military technology and energy sufficiency. Accordingly, R&D spending fell.

Today the financial pressures facing higher education, the brain drain and the absence of a strong R&D driver are contributing to a dangerous greying of the R&D workforce. Our capacity as a leading science and technology player among the emerging economies is being put at risk, unless we bring our investments in research and development in line with those of emerging countries such as Finland, Chile and Korea, which have embraced their knowledge in terms of the future.

In our globalising economy, where our own multinationals are shifting their headquarters abroad, we need to ensure that the quality of life and the research and business environment are attractive to our researchers and entrepreneurs from abroad, who will want to come home and give substance to our national system of innovation. This is one of the reasons that Government is pushing the development of a university dedicated to excellence in the information and communications technologies. We want to participate in world-class development and be an attractive place to study and work. What we do not want is to be subjected to the mining of our intellectual capital.

Currently significant effort is being put into gaining a better understanding of three key features of our national system of innovation. The Human Sciences Research Council together with the National Advisory Council on Innovation will by the end of the year have provided us with hard data on the inputs that go into our research and development system, the factors affecting the movement of R & D personnel and the impact of publicly funded research.

This information will allow for a much better understanding of what is going into the R & D system and will form the basis for careful consideration of the extent to which state funding might increase and where that increase might be targeted.

The capacity to deploy that funding in accordance with our goals for national development in part depends on the quality of leadership in place in the science councils. I wish to use this opportunity to congratulate Dr Khotso Mokhele, president of the National Research Foundation, for the rare feat of acquiring three honorary doctorates in as many weeks, and also recognise the new energy that the appointment of Dr Sibusiso Sibisi as president of the CSIR brings to this organisation. [Applause.]

Science is one part of our cultural entitlement. I wish now to turn to the other cultures. My Ministry has been criticised for apparently spending too little on the performing arts, for allowing orchestras to go to the wall and for neglecting the classics. Our policies in this regard have stood the test of time. We have worked from the basis that our highly diverse and economically stratified communities have many interests and varying abilities to pay for artistic and cultural experience. Strange, then, is the fact that the number of orchestras has been rising in the last few years and strange too that the playhouses are now performing to packed houses, night after night. Patrons, it seems, are prepared to pay top rand for what they enjoy.

We have also worked from the basis that an agenda of redress is appropriate in order to correct bias and imbalance and to promote nation-building. It is a pleasure, therefore, to note that the culture Vote is set to rise by an average of 25% per year over the next three years.

Our progress in convincing Cabinet collegues of the dynamic possibilities for the cultural industries has resulted in these significant budget increases. A total of R102 million has been allocated over and above our Medium-Term Expenditure Framework allocation for arts and culture for the 2002-03 financial year. An amount of R17 million has been allocated to the transformation of heritage institutions, R20 million for cultural industries, R50 million for Freedom Park and R15 million for a new harbour wall on Robben Island so that the visitors are not endangered.

It is an even greater pleasure to note the way that the private sector has worked with Government to give substance to the vision of the Robben Island Gateway project and the Robben Island Museum itself. These facilities are designed to world standards, are well patronised and serve as a living tribute to the freedom struggle.

The project that will have the widest impact given its physical location, is the Freedom Park that is now taking shape under the guidance of the previous chairperson of our portfolio committee, the poet and writer Mongane Wally Serote. Freedom Park will be a monument to our collective struggle for dignity and human rights.

Cabinet in 1998 approved this project, which will lead to the design and construction of a number of commemorative structures at Salvokop in the capital city. These structures will celebrate the rich tapestry of our lives from the earliest times as the cradle of humankind, through the stone and iron ages and the agrarian era to the ages of conflict and colonisation. The struggle for democracy and the present will also be typified. A sum of R350 million has been allocated to these works over the MTEF period.

I would like to refer to the language mandate that is given to us by Cabinet and by the people of this country. We are in the process of finalising a national language policy that was carefully developed and tested with all stakeholders.

However, more importantly, we are busy with a range of practical interventions in the area of language. I want to mention a number of projects that are underway to ensure that language supports personal development and economic participation.

Members will recall that on 15 March we launched the Telephone Interpreting Service for South Africa. The Telephone Interpreting Service for South Africa was developed in collaboration with PanSALB and the University of the Free State. Of course, I should say ``dankie mense’’ [Thank you, everyone]. [Applause.]

We have also established a film fund, which is located in the National Film and Video Foundation, and the allocation for this is R35 million. I do hope that within a few years we shall have some exceptional blockbuster feature films coming out of our history, heritage and experience as a people. [Applause.]

Mrs M A A NJOBE: Madam Speaker, hon Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, hon Deputy Minister and colleagues, allow me to indulge the House on the experience my family once had at the peak of the apartheid era.

We had been to Cape Town on a visit and were on our way back to the Eastern Cape, driving along the N2 highway. Having learnt about the Cango Caves at school and suddenly realising how close we were to this famous South African heritage site, we decided to branch off at Mossel Bay and drive towards Oudtshoorn.

On arrival at the Cango Caves, and from where we parked our car, we could visibly see the entrance to the caves. We were excited at this achievement and at the thought of what we were about to witness. But, alas! Right there in front of us was a huge information board on which was listed the days of the week on which the different races, ie whites, Indians, Coloureds and Africans, could visit the caves.

To our disappointment and disgust the day we had chosen to visit the site was not for visiting by Africans. Unbelievable! It so happened that the visiting day for Africans was the following day. There stood a beautiful hotel nearby and we enquired if we could spend the night there. No, it was for whites only, we were told.

From the parking ground we could see with envy white people going in and out of the caves. Could we go as far as the entrance, at least, we asked. Of course not, we were reminded. Angry and disgusted at the thought that it was our colour that prevented us from visiting the natural heritage site, we drove away.

With the creation of a new Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology since the democratic Government came into power, South Africa is gradually, step by step, moving away from her painful past - a past in which even natural heritage sites could detect racial differences.

Through the creation of the department, heritage resources and facilities are not only preserved but are popularised, democratised and open to all South Africans, regardless of race, colour or status. The ANC-led Government created the department because it recognised that through arts, culture and language promotion, a sense of national identity and pride would be cultivated.

Arts and culture are thus a potentially unifying force in a country that was divided along ethnic and cultural lines by the apartheid system. Recognising that it is a foundation for the community and tradition, and that it can be a powerful vehicle for the transformation of society, the department aims, amongst other things, to stimulate, nurture and protect the arts, culture and heritage of our country. The activities of the department cover a very wide range, much wider than many of us imagine, including the MPs themselves. These activities range from overseeing and financially supporting community arts centres on the ground; supporting and developing the music, film and video industry; establishing cultural industries; ensuring the preservation of national archives, museums, libraries and heritage sites; and supporting the work of the science councils, research, etc.

Comparing the budget allocation to this plethora of responsibilities and litany of programmes undertaken by the department, we can safely conclude that the funds cannot be said to be adequate. The Government does need to devise a strategy to allocate additional funds if these noble tasks are to be carried out as expected and as required. This observation is backed by the fact that in almost all the presentations on the annual report by stakeholders to the portfolio committee, the common complaint was that policies could be better implemented if more funds were available.

However, it is encouraging to note that despite these limitations the budget allocation for arts, culture, science and technology has been revised upwards by R145,2 million in the current financial year, and R315,5 million in the next financial year. Notable also is the fact that arts, culture, science and technology spending dominates the department’s budget. One of the new projects that will benefit from this spending is the Freedom Park project at Salvokop in Pretoria, which was mentioned by the Minister. It is an important project with significant themes, touching on the struggle for liberation, democracy and nation-building. It is a project aimed at reflecting the precolonial, colonial, apartheid and postapartheid eras, phases of democratisation and the development of the South African nation. It is gratifying, therefore, to note that this museum will include the women’s struggles as well. [Applause.]

It is a project that promises to involve the whole nation in its entirety. Thus the appointment of Comrade Dr Wally Serote, the chairperson of the portfolio committee since 1994 up to April this year, to oversee the development of a national project of this magnitude, could not have come at a better moment. On behalf of the portfolio committee, I wish to congratulate Dr Serote on his appointment and wish him success in this new challenging deployment. We do not doubt his ability to face up to this challenge. We trust that the allocation that has been given to the project over the medium term will see the project started.

We acknowledge the additional funding to the cultural industries. Given enough financial clout, this directorate can go a long way in creating jobs, alleviating poverty and consequently reducing crime. Much work has been done in promoting South African crafts, including exhibitions abroad. The department has a list of these cultural industries and their locations in the provinces. It would therefore be helpful if the MPs could visit those located in their constituencies to find out how they are progressing.

The department plans to establish craft and music expert councils. This will not only stimulate the creation of more jobs for our artists, but will also promote South Africa’s cultural image internationally, and so will the participation of the department in the World Summit for Sustainable Development, the WSSD imbizo, in August and September this year. We hope that artists and crafters from rural areas will not be left out.

With regard to the preservation of archives and museums, I believe drastic transformation needs to take place, in particular in terms of the content of these institutions. These are still dominated by information and artefacts from the old order. There is a need to broaden the content to reflect today’s South African society.

In addition there is a need for more clarity on the governance of archives. The role of the provinces and local government needs to be clearly defined and supported financially. There is also a dire need for capacity-building in this sector.

The Bureau of Heraldry, though, is to be congratulated on its success in creating a distinct South African idiom, depicting the diversity of South African society as seen in the production of the new coat of arms, emblems such as the flag, medals and so on. With the PanSALB legislation in place and an increasing budget allocation over the medium term, the linguistic diversity of the country should develop progressively.

We wish to congratulate the department on the strategic plan it has set up to guide its programmes over the next few years. We acknowledge the developments in science and technology in our country and the work done under very challenging circumstances, from the erection of the South African Large Telescope, or Salt, in Sutherland to the work currently being done by the science councils at the World Summit on Sustainable Development.

It is important that South African science is showcased also within Africa through participation in Nepad. Developing our role in Africa is certainly of paramount importance. We note the increased focus on Africa’s indigenous knowledge systems and their link to global science and technology systems. We are aware of the responsibilities these choices carry with them, but there is a need to address key indicators in the medium term such as the number of researchers as a percentage of the total workforce, the development of human capital in the indigenous knowledge system and the critical area of public understanding of science, engineering and technology in order to close the ever widening gap between the rich and the poor.

In his state of the nation address, President Mbeki stressed the centrality of mathematics and science as part of the human resources development strategy. Currently, the number of learners who pass mathematics and science in Grade 12 is very low. The Minister has also alluded to this fact.

The key challenge of the department, however, is to manage such a diverse integrated portfolio with all its potential and challenges.

In conclusion, may we congratulate the Minister, the Deputy Minister and the department on having successfully negotiated and effected the return to South Africa, of the remains of Ms Saartjie Baartman, thus ending centuries of humiliation of black people by previous colonial powers. [Applause.] To us, Saartjie remains our national heritage and should be treated as such.

May I also thank the director-general and his staff for the co-operation given me thus far as the new chairperson of the portfolio committee and also my colleagues, the members of the committee, for their co-operation and understanding. Please let us not forget what the Minister has informed us about, namely Africa Freedom Day tomorrow. [Applause.]

Mnr S E OPPERMAN: Mev die Speaker, ek weet nou nie waar die agb Marthinus van Schalkwyk gaan wegkruip het nie … [Tussenwerpsels] … maar ek wou vir hom gesê het: As Harksen soveel geld gegee het, en as Leon geweet het, en as Bester geweet het, en as Morkel geweet het, dan vind ek dit baie vreemd dat Marthinus van Schalkwyk niks geweet het, en dit terwyl hy destyds die adjunkleier van die DA was. [Tussenwerpsels.] Hy was ook hooffondsinsamelaar en ‘n top man in die Nuwe NP. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr S E OPPERMAN: Madam Speker, I don’t know where the honourable Marthinus van Schalkwyk is hiding … [Interjections] … but I wanted to tell him: If Harksen gave so much money, and if Leon had known, and if Bester had known, and if Morkel had known, then I find it very strange that Marthinus van Schalkwyk did not know anything, and this while he was still deputy leader of the DA. [Interjections.] He was also the main funds collector and a top man in the New NP.]

Mr A C NEL: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. This, I believe, is a debate on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, unless the speaker is versing us in forensic science. [Interjections.] I do not see the relevance of his comments.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Well, let us give the hon member a chance. He might just make the connection. [Laughter.]

Mr S E OPPERMAN: Madam Speaker, it is part of the drama.

Ek het groot waardering vir die waardes wat die Departement van Kuns, Kultuur, Wetenskap en Tegnologie hom ten doel gestel het, naamlik professionalisme, bekwaamheid, verantwoordbaarheid en deursigtigheid. Dit is die tipe waardes wat pas by almal wat ernstig is om op ‘n inklusiewe wyse uitdrukking te gee aan die skeppende potensiaal wat in ons almal is. Hierdie waardes is onverhandelbaar. As ons die kuns en kultuur van al die komponente van ons reënboognasie aan almal blootstel, behoort dit ‘n belangrike instrument te wees om binne ons nuwe demokrasie nasiebou te bevorder. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[I have great appreciation for the values which the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology has as object, namely professionalism, competence, responsibility and lucidity. These are the kinds of values befitting everyone serious about giving expression in an inclusive way to the creative potential in all of us. These values are non-negotiable. If we expose the art and culture of all the components of our rainbow nation to everyone, it should be an important instrument to promote nation-building in our new democracy.]

Although the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology’s budget has more than doubled from 1995 to 2002, there was a downward trend in the arts and culture programme since 1995-96, reaching its lowest percentage point in 2000-01. The overall budget for Arts and Culture increases from R362 million in 2001-02, to R495 million this year - an increase of 36,5%. This is by far the largest increase this programme has seen since 1994, but we must remember it was from a lower base.

In spite of this increase, most of our heritage organisations, with their professional and export employees, are still underfunded. Some institutions have not had their budgets increased by a cent in eight years. Others have had an increase not even remotely close to keeping in touch with inflation, while others have had their budgets slashed dramatically, reducing their capacity to provide sound, professional services.

There was also a significant decline in infrastructure, companies, capacity and jobs over the last number of years in the area of performing arts - top singers, choreographers, dancers, musicians and actors are leaving the industry.

Are we really serious about our mission to stimulate, to nurture and to protect arts and culture when there is an annual increase in the number of jobs in DACST, with substantial improvement in remuneration, while jobs are shed in the arts and culture institutions, which are doing the cultural work?

The ongoing drama around the State Theatre is not enhancing our vision for transparency and accountability. After five years of investigation by various investigating agencies no money has been recovered and no one has been held accountable. Meredy Wixley and Arlette Franks, who lost their jobs because they blew the whistle on irregularities, are still out in the cold. There may be many reasons for the delay, but five years is a very long time and speculations are rife about the reasons for the delay. The time has now arrived to settle this matter once and for all so that some people can get on with their lives.

We appreciate all the initiatives for economic development and poverty reduction. But I believe there is still a lot to be done to realise our full potential. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF ARTS, CULTURE, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Madam Speaker, the hon the Minister, and colleagues, I wish to start my speech with a poem. Kindly indulge me.

I’ve come to take you home - home, remember the veld? the lush green grass beneath the big oak trees the air is cool there and the sun doesn’t burn.

I have made your bed at the foot of the hill, your blankets are covered in buchu and mint, the proteas stand in yellow and white and the water in the stream chuckles sing-songs as it hobbles along over the little stones.

I have come to wrench you away away from the poking eyes of the man-made monster who lives in the dark with his clutches of imperialism who dissects your body bit by bit who likens your soul to that of Satan and declares himself the ultimate god!

I have come to take you home where I will sing for you for you have brought me peace.

This is an extract from a poem written in celebration of Sarah Baartman by Diana Ferrus, a wonderful and compassionate woman I am privileged to have met. [Applause.] Regrettably, Diana Ferrus is not able to be with us today as she is attending a funeral in Worcester. The poem stands as a record in French legislative history, since the translated verses are part of the enabling law that released Sarah Baartman from her two centuries of captive humiliation.

There are others whose role in this homecoming must be recognised. In France, I would like to mention Anne Sophie Parisot, personal assistant to Senator Nicholas About, who first saw this poem on a local website, and brought it to the notice of the senator; Senator Nicholas About, who sponsored the necessary Bill, and the Minister of Research, Minister Roger- Gerard Schwartzenberg, who made a very moving speech at the handing-over ceremony, affirming the right to human dignity.

On the South African side, we recognise both the former and present ambassadors to France, that is, Madam Barbara Masekela and the present ambassador to France, who is Ms Skweyiya, who, in fact, alerted us to the debate earlier this year; Professor Tobias for his effort and persistence, and to the National Khoisan Consultative Conference for its guidance in this matter.

We are now preparing for the interment of Sarah Baartman’s remains. I am pleased to inform the House that the consultation with key stakeholders such as the National Khoisan Consultative Conference is proceeding well. I am confident that the interment of Sarah Baartman will be successful.

The return of Sarah Baartman is about affirming our commitment to human rights. Similarly, the change of the old symbols and orders to new ones affirms our history and helps us build an inclusive nation in recognition of all our human rights.

To this end, in the area of heraldry, we have made significant progress in the past seven years in defining who we are and what we stand for as a nation. As we all know, on Freedom Day this year, the new national orders were inaugurated: The Order of Mapungubwe, the Order of the Baobab and the Order of the Companions of O R Tambo. I wish to take this opportunity to thank the Presidency for its guidance. I wish, also, to reiterate the commendation made by the President to Gold Mametja in creating the design for the new national orders.

Let me now turn to the challenges the department is addressing in the area of cultural industry. As the Minister pointed out, a skills development training strategy has been developed for the craft, film, design and music sectors together with the Department of Labour. What I really need to say now is to urge all interested parties to help us make this a success.

In the area of music, the Legal Aid Board is in discussions with us, and we are looking at the possibility of the Wits Law Clinic being used to launch Help for Musicians.

During the last financial year, the department has actively promoted the use of new knowledge in support of communities and groups that wish to develop craft and technology-based businesses. Jobs have been created in the area of paper-making, as the Minister has indicated, as well as soap production and craft industries, to mention but a few.

These industries are based on the use of renewable resources on a sustainable basis. They are intended to assist the participants to become more independent entrepreneurs. Design is as important in the technological process as it is in craft development. In this regard I am pleased to note the excellent collaboration that has emerged across Government departments that are working together. These are the Departments of Education, Water Affairs and Forestry, and Minerals and Energy, as well as the SABS and CSIR.

The importance of design is now recognised through the annual South African Design Week. The department is underwriting all these collaborative initiatives. In the area of technology, we have established technology stations. T[s]homisano, meaning partnership or co-operation, has been chosen as a brand name for this programme. It provides support to South African enterprises by facilitating access to the expertise and capacity of technikons via the intermediary services of technology stations. It will strengthen and accelerate the interaction between technikons, as the Minister has indicated, and small and medium enterprises.

In the first round initiated in 1999, our department selected four technikons for the establishment of technology stations, and these are Technikon Pretoria in the field of electronics and electrical engineering, Technikon Free State, in Bloemfontein, in metal value adding, Technikon North West, Garankuwa in chemicals and the Mangosuthu Technikon Durban in chemicals.

In the second round, the department selected three more technikons in February, and these are Vaal Triangle in the field of composites, Port Elizabeth Technikon in the field of automotive components and Peninsula Technikon in the field of textiles and clothing. We have also initiated another technology programme. The Minister referred to this one. This is called Godisa. We began funding this programme in the year 2001. Currently, there are eight programmes - four of these are fully functional and the other four are new centres which have just received their funds. All centres are at various stages of development.

To give an example of the impact of these programmes in South Africa and in our communities, we will use the Zenzele Technology Demonstration Centre, TDC, which is based at Mintek. The purpose of TDC is to provide technical and research support to small-scale mining enterprises resulting in accelerated business growth, skills development and job creation.

The centre helps enterprises to compete successfully in their market. In the approximately six months that the centre has been in operation, 35 initiatives have already been undertaken in Gauteng, Northern Cape, Mpumalanga, Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal provinces. These initiatives involved approximately 537 individual miners, 96% to 97% of which are black and 20% women. I must say that this project is, politically, being led by the Minister of Minerals and Energy.

During the course of the current financial year, the department will allocate R50 million to the first phase of the national biotechnology strategy. This strategy is not intended to serve a narrow set of interests for a favoured few. South Africa’s biotechnology strategy has been strengthened with a public consultation process that has endorsed our own view. Biotechnology has great potential to serve the needs of all South Africans.

A study tour of Cuba in January and consideration of the strategies of countries such as Brazil, Malaysia and Nigeria reinforced this assessment. Of all recent technological development, biotechnology directly connects with the rich indigenous knowledge and extensive biological resources of our subcontinent. This creates opportunities to reduce the burden of disease, improve food security and establish industries that will generate a new wealth.

I wish to say that there is concern that there has been very little proper assessment of the current contribution and future potential of women in science and technology in our country. However, investigations of the authorship of scientific publications by South African women shows little progress over the past ten years. Women who are leaders in their fields are positive and effective role models, but some domains remain dominantly male. In others, there has, it seems, been some progress, or so we are told. This domain needs positive attention, proper investigation and proactive planning.

We have therefore initiated the establishment of a reference group of leading women in science and technology to give positive impetus to initiatives to redress the persistent gender imbalances within our national system of innovation, which all too easily becomes the accepted norm.

In the context of global and regional issues affecting women in science and technology, we will work to ensure strengthened contributions by women within the national system of innovation, and address the levels of participation in maths and science by girls in our schools.

Let me take this opportunity to congratulate Dr Serote on his appointment at Freedom Park and also MaNjobe on her appointment as chairperson of the portfolio committee, and to say to all of us ``Happy Africa Day!’’ - I am not sure if we say that. Let us reflect on our commitment as a nation to helping to rebuild the socioeconomic infrastructure of our continent. [Applause.]

Mr M F CASSIM: Chairperson, let me begin by first of all congratulating Dr Mokhehle, Dr Sibisi, Dr Wally Serote, Mark Shuttleworth and MaNjobe on their various achievements. Secondly, I wish to ditto everything that the Minister, Deputy Minister and MaNjobe had to say.

As far as Mr Opperman is concerned, I think, in respect of the State Theatre, he should know very well that in the dying days of the apartheid regime, the State Theatre made itself into a section 21 company, precisely because it did not want the new state to oversee its affairs. No wonder it was overtaken by financial disasters of its own making, for which the department could not, in any way, be blamed. As far as we now concerned, it has become part of the national arts institutes and therefore control will be reasserted.

This is the eighth time that I have had the privilege, on behalf of the IFP, to address the House on this Vote. Over these eight years, the department has made enormous progress with a limited budget. Even today that budget stands at just three quarters of a billion rand.

Their great achievement is especially true in the area of science and technology. The use of strategic investments in science, therefore, is the only big option that is open to us and the department is using that option. Thanks to our being an open democracy, we have as a country established links and bilateral relations with many highly industrialised friendly countries. This compensates somewhat for the limited investments that we ourselves as a Government are making in science and technology.

In other areas like the arts, the department operates at arm’s length so that the state may never again impose a new hegemony on our diverse people with our diverse languages, beliefs and cultures. We have no way around that. At the same time, the department has to realise the full potential of both arts and science in the social and economic development that has to be undertaken. For this reason, the promotion of job creation in the cultural industries has become an area of central focus, and must remain an area of central focus for many years.

This focus is also supported by the medium-term allocations in the budget for cultural industries. There is no doubt, none whatsoever, that this is the way to go.

Our oversight and monitoring functions must therefore ensure that all who are entrusted with the responsibility of promoting job creation, through the cultural industries, are given substantial autonomy and even financial incentives in terms of the PFMA to deliver. We cannot countenance minimal outputs here. After all, the Cultural Industries Growth Strategy was initiated in 1997 and, after five years, we should as a country be capitalising on the truly vast economic potential of the craft, music, film and publishing industries.

Let me underscore the enormous emphasis we as parliamentarians are placing on the cultural industries, as the Ministry does, to answer the cries of the jobless. The department, through public-private partnerships, the Music Industry Task Team and the Print Industry Cluster Council, has the necessary avenues for job creation and urban regeneration.

Our collective mandate is to deliver adequately on the promise of a better life for all. We therefore need to look deeply at what is happening in our cities, towns, villages and rural areas. Eight years have passed. The number of beneficiaries from our programme should be rising incrementally and significantly. The councils and the agencies that derive funds from the department should begin to show quantitatively and qualitatively what is being done to bring about a better life for all.

The fundamentals in our country and our economy are sound, but jobs still continue to be shed. Four out of ten of employable people, according to analysts, are consistently out of jobs. My own eyes reveal the same truth.

I accept that the half a billion rand the department has for arts and culture is inadequate for what needs to be done. There is no argument about that. The question, though, is whether the best strategies are being employed and whether the councils are performing the near miracles which we expect them to perform. Now we in South Africa are a unique partnership and together, as Team South Africa we can scale the tallest mountains. President Thabo Mbeki has issued a clarion call for the African Renaissance, Nepad and Vukuzenzele. We should rally by going beyond the call of duty.

But are we rallying? As consumers, in this nation, do we support our home- grown products. I believe that we should follow the example of the way in which the French support their culture and French cinema. South Africa must indeed take a leaf from France’s book, and in a hurry. Our portfolio committee is ready and willing to support the Ministry in whichever way we can.

We need to dramatically increase the output of our films, videos and documentaries through joint ventures and other strategies. We have the technical base. We also have the great stories, as the Minister has indicated, of singular success in avoiding catastrophic wars and of engaging in the greater social experiment in the history of the world. These stories must be told. Burkina Faso, Australia, India and other countries are performing miracles, and we should do the same. Members of this House and all those who are in politics will need to mobilise our cinemagoers to spread their rands so that our own home-grown products begin to enjoy success.

Now let me turn my attention to music. In music, also, we have an enormous depth of talent, a depth that is equal to the platinum mines of South Africa. Some of our underutilised universities could be used as performing schools and recording studios. The phenomenal success of the new opera Princess Magogo kaDinuzulu indicates the wonderful potential that still has to be realised in South Africa. Let us look at the experience of India in developing the talents of its people, both in the film and music industries, and let us see what we can do to catch up.

Another area that still remains to be developed is the archeological sites. While the Cradle of Humankind is being developed, we need to give consideration to the other significant sites that we have. The R6 billion- odd of investments that we have in our museums also need to be utilised more economically in order that that R6 billion could bring investments into the museums. I wish to suggest, once again, that we should have a floating exhibition of some of our artefacts in co-operation and in conjunction with the navy.

I would now like to turn to the major chain outlets of our country like Pick ‘n Pay, Woolworths, Spar and so on. I believe that these retailers should be encouraged, out of patriotism, to set aside about 1% to 2% of their total floor space for South African artefacts and products. If we look at the glassware and many ornamental products that are sold in these stores, we find that they are all sourced from outside. We need to give our own small SMMEs an opportunity. I believe that through engaging these major outlets in discussion, we would be able to ensure that there is greater economic growth in our country.

Let us also briefly look at what we spend on the criminal justice system. Correctional Services in South Africa uses up R7 billion, Safety and Security uses over R19 billion and Justice takes R4 billion. If one adds on top of that what many of our business people and private residents pay for private security, then the amount exceeds the R30 billion that the Government is already spending. What do we spend on arts and science against the R30 billion that is spent on the criminal justice system? We spend a mere R1,36 billion. It does not make good economic sense to be merely spending on that end and not bolstering our sciences, arts and economics.

I also wish to appeal to the Minister to explore the possibility of a South Africa shop like the Australia shop. In London, New York and Paris the South African flag is already well branded. The Minister and his colleagues in Cabinet could discuss the viability of such a move. The other areas for development are the new African cultural villages along the arterial routes; central markets in the cities which focus on cultural products, like those found in Malaysia; restaurants that also offer major cultural events eg Marrakech in Morocco. Finally, I would like to repeat the call for a South African experience along the lines of the Maltese experience in Malta.

The budget document before us recognises the need to strengthen the crucial links between strategic planning, budgeting, monitoring and, most significantly, reporting on service delivery. These are indeed the crucial links. We have made it compulsory for many of the councils to report to Parliament and to make sure that they are delivering. If service delivery takes place at a speedy and optimal level, we shall have the endorsement of the voters, and the valid argument for substantially increasing the budget of this department and of the very councils that we are talking about. If not, the voters are going to regard us as failures and the Minister of Finance will remain as close-fisted as he has been. We, in the portfolio committee, promise not to fail.

The IFP supports the Vote. We support the programmes and the targets. We are quite unhappy though that the Government investment in R & D is declining. This, surely, is a mistake that must be taken up in Cabinet and elsewhere. We support a steady and incremental growth in R & D in order that we can remain competitive in global terms. I would like to say to colleagues here that, on this thing, we cannot fail the country. We request the public sector managers, in terms of the Public Finance Management Act, to use the greater autonomy and flexibility now given to them to deliver as effectively as possible. They know that we will play ball with them. That is what we have done.

We also remain very anxious about mathematics and science in our schools, and the Minister pointed this out. The number of postgraduate and doctoral students taking up mathematics and science at university is absolutely unacceptable.

Universities that want to retain their autonomy have failed themselves in not attracting an adequate number of postgraduate and doctoral students for these subjects. As country, we have to make sure that these things are put right.

When it comes to language, we also need to ensure that we develop vocabulary along all the languages, in order that South Africa can become a multilingual society in which language becomes a strength and not a weakness. The inability of South Africa to look at vocabulary development is impeding that progress.

Finally, in all of the laboratories, theatres, observatories, museums, archives, councils, departments, Parliament, etc, this is an area via which we can ensure that South Africa becomes a significant player in Africa and the world, so that Nepad can be a great success. [Applause.]

Mrs N D MBOMBO: Chairperson, hon Minister and fellow members, a long time ago when they were in power, the previous government built toilets in the veld which were never used by anybody. Let us not make our centres like that.

The department’s predicament is that arts centres fall under provincial governments, but through Minmec there should be a co-ordination so they should not blame each other for failure to implement policy as well as the wishes of the representatives of the people, as expressed through the portfolio committee.

Our committee provided a memorandum in which we highlighted various programmes that should be promoted through such centres. We suggested the following. Adjoining community art centres should be craft markets, restaurants and work centres; in some, there should be a library, information technology, a computer centre and an Abet centre.

In our view, the community art centres should be a hub around which a whole range of activities should take place. We pointed out in our memo that if the Government were to add these and other features, both the local and overseas visitors would be attracted, thereby contributing to job creation and other opportunities for people who are unemployed, as well as make a positive contribution to the alleviation of poverty.

In countries such as the island of Malta, lace-making and glass ornaments are a major tourist attraction. In Malaysia batik is equally attractive to all visitors, and the spinning of cloth in India has been going on for centuries. Thus, as a developing country we should use our art and culture as a catalyst to economic development. Pottery, paper-making, meshing and a whole host of local industries could be nurtured and expanded. As an example of a working model of a community centre, village crafts are to be found in Ouagadougou, in Burkina Faso, where whole families are engaged in manufacturing, finishing and selling products ranging from ceramics, metal items, woodwork and leather. Therefore, we plead with the department, once again, to intensify its efforts by 5000% to make community art centres hubs of local and cultural activities.

It is not plain sailing or a bed of roses for the community art centres in our country. Some had to close down because of a lack of basic operational financial provisions. Some are not fully utilised because of a lack of focus per se and administrative direction. Some are working well and are a pleasure to visit.

Therefore, a plea is made to all of us to imbue in the people in our constituencies the spirit as enshrined in the statement made on 8 January which, inter alia, provides:

We must translate into reality, our vision of people-driven processes of change, as well as the fundamental principle that they are their own liberators.

By this, I mean for those centres to take off as expected and required by our people. Our people should be encouraged to volunteer their services in them, until they become financially viable. Let us now turn to another painful issue in our community, namely that of the rural women. In rural communities we believe that IKS sorghum and indigenous traditional brewing, dance, music, etc should be supported on a preferential basis.

The Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism is promoting a village type of accommodation, in order that those who wish to experience the real Africa can do so by watching the stars, listening to the tu-whitting of the owls, dogs barking at the moon and stories about the births and deaths of our kings, and waking up in the morning to the crow of the cock.

Kukurukukuuu. Ndikhumbul’ eMbhasheee. Eeembo. Moolo mhlob’ am. Ndlelantle saana. Undibulisele kwezo weyi. Uthi kubhuti Nyawuza ndiza kumbhalela. [Kwaqhwatywa.] The cock crows. I miss Mbhashe! Hello, my friend! Go well, baby! Pass my regards to them there! Please tell brother Nyawuza that I will write to him! [Applause.]

These are all opportunities begging to be taken up and used wisely and economically, as well as recorded properly in our history books for the next generation. Our country has a lot of diversity, but we are one South Africa with many cultures. This is the way of life we want experienced by people in the country and used to attract international visitors to this country. Therefore we would like to see the community arts centres as a microcosm of this big vision of our way of life.

Simthembile uMphathiswa kunye nesekela lakhe, uNkskz Mabandla. Siyacela kooMbomvu ukuba bawuphakamele lo mcimbi, basenze sibe ngabantu abanegugu neqhayiya ngemveli namasiko abo, njengoko sebenzile. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[We trust both the hon Minister and his deputy, Mrs Mabandla. We ask that Mbomvu and his colleagues should take this matter up and make us proud of our origin, culture and customs, as they have already done. [Applause.]]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, can we appeal to you to lower the noise level in the House. There are a number of side meetings going on and these do not allow the member at the podium the opportunity to be heard.

Mev ANNA VAN WYK: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek wil ‘n beroep op die hoofswepe doen om hierdie debat in die toekoms op ‘n Dinsdagmiddag as eerste item op die Ordelys te plaas, en agb lede het nou net gehoor hoekom.

Hierdie begrotingspos het te make met die siel van die nasie, en as sodanig verdien dit veel meer prominensie. Die portefeuljekomitee is moeg daarvan om alewig soos Aspoestertjie by die koue as van die week se verrigtings te moet staan, en die koue pampoen wat my arme kollega dan ook nog aan ons wil opdis, is iets wat ons nie wil eet nie, want almal weet mos dat die DP/DA ons doelbewus in die duister gehou het oor hulle doen en late. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Die siel van die nasie is al belangrik genoeg, maar dit het ook te doen met die hart en verstand, sowel as die produk van die nasie. Nou moet ek dadelik sê, sedert die boekjaar 1995-96 het die begroting vir die pos meer as verdubbel, iets waarvoor ek graag krediet wil gee. Oor hoe die departementele toediening gemaak word, kan ‘n mens redeneer, en ek wil voorstel dat daar deeglik gekyk word na wat prioriteite behoort te wees.

Is dit byvoorbeeld regverdigbaar dat daar aan ‘n eenmalige byeenkoms R5 miljoen uitgegee word terwyl ‘n belangrike nasionale instelling soos die William Humphreys-kunsgalery ‘n jaar lank met R1,7 moet klaarkom? By die Nasionale Museum in Bloemfontein, waar daar uitsonderlike navorsing, byvoorbeeld op die gebied van die Karoo-paleontologie gedoen word, is 45 poste nie gevul nie.

Terwyl kunsteburokrate goeie salarisse, byvoordele, pensioene en mediese fondse ontvang, ontvang gerekende uitvoerende kunstenaars geen vaste inkomste, geen bystand met gesondheidsorg en geen voorsiening vir hul oudag nie. Dit is ongelukkig ‘n feit.

‘n Mens sou ook kon vra waarom die depotbiblioteek in Grahamstad verlede jaar leeggestaan het en waarom biblioteke landwyd in krisis verkeer. ‘n Mens hoor ook dat rare seëls van die Nasionale Argief by handelaars beland en skilderye voete kry. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [Mrs ANNA VAN WYK: Mr Chairperson, I want to make an appeal to the chief whips that this debate in future be placed on the Order Paper as the first item on a Tuesday afternoon and hon members have just heard the reason for this.

This Budget Vote deals with the soul of the nation and as such it deserves much more prominence. Like Cinderella, the portfolio committee is tired of always having to stand at the cold cinders of the week’s proceedings and the cold pumpkin which my poor colleague then wants to serve to us is something we do not want to eat, because everyone knows that the DP/DA has deliberately kept us in the dark about their activities. [Interjections.]

The soul of the nation is important enough, but it also deals with the heart and the mind as well as the product of the nation. Now I have to add immediately, since the 1995-96 financial year the budget for this post more than doubled, something I would like to give credit to. One can argue about how the departmental allocation is made, and I want to propose that we take a thorough look at what ought to be priorities. Is it for example justifiable that for a one-time gathering R5 million should be spent while an important national institution such as the William Humphreys Art Gallery should get by with R1,7 million for an entire year? At the National Museum in Bloemfontein where exceptional research, for example in the area of the Karoo paleontology, is being done, 45 posts have not been filled.

While art bureaucrats receive good salaries, fringe benefits, pensions and medical funds, esteemed performing artists receive no fixed income, no support with health care and no provision for their old age. Unfortunately this is a fact.

One could also ask why the depot library in Grahamstown stood empty last year and why libraries nationwide are in crisis. One also hears that rare stamps of the National Archives end up in the hands of dealers and that paintings disappear.]

I know the Minister wants to educate, inform, delight and uplift South Africans, and I want to congratulate him, his department and the Deputy Minister of the very good initiatives and the very many great successes they have achieved. But there is a perception that the Government on the whole lacks an informed vision.

I would like to ask the Minister to take up with Government the matter of a thorough assessment of the assets of the country. Whereas there are some asset registers such as the one found, for example, in the Department of Public Works, nationally - and at least in the Western Cape provincially - many departments in all spheres of government share the custodianship of a great variety of assets. Until this cataloguing is done, it will be difficult for Government to gain a comprehensive overview of the extent and condition of its inheritance.

Admittedly, this will be a vast task. The number of libraries, museums, galleries, sites of scientific or historic importance, scientific and technological institutes and installations, monuments, botanical gardens, zoos, herbariums and archives, as well as the contents of the aforementioned, is breathtaking. And I would like to take Mrs Njobe to show her what there is of Africa that she could be proud of.

Add to this the intangible heritage such as languages, customs, skills and knowledge and the mind boggles. Doubtless, much of these are under utilised, therefore it does not seem sensible to proceed otherwise than with caution on burdening the state with more material assets. Sustainable use of existing assets is the crux. The same portion needs to apply in our approach to our human resources at every front. We simply cannot afford to lose more scarce skills. I think that Sansa is a very laudable initiative and I wish the Minister great success with it.

Next, we need to arrive at key principles to Government policy after following due process. We should start with home-grown expertise in relevant fields, then we can start the process of reformulating policy with the people working in these disciplines, participating fruitfully and taking joint ownership of the product. Some of the present policies and consequential legislation do not enjoy unquestionable credibility - and in some cases even legitimacy - to meet the requirements of successful administration and service delivery.

Hierna kan ons begin met die praktiese aspekte: herbeplanning, herbegroting en uitvoering, want die ministerie se verpligtinge teenoor die nasie strek veel wyer as net sy eie lynfunksie. In noue samewerking met ander departemente, en veral provinsiale- en plaaslike beplanningsdepartemente, behoort beleidsrigtinge van die hele Regering te verseker dat Suid- Afrikaanse kultuur nie verder geërodeer word deur vlak en gewelddadige elektroniese vermaak nie, die kuslyn van Suid-Afrika nie verder ontsier word deur ongebreidelde uitbreiding van styllose en onvolhoubare vakansiedorpontwikkeling nie en dat snelgroeiende behuisingsareas die kragtige streeksontwerpe inheems aan Suid-Afrika reflekteer.

Suid-Afrika het probleme, maar ons het die talent en die bates wat ons visioenêr kan aanwend. Dit is juis hierdie portefeulje wat die Afrika Renaissance en Nepad kan laat werk. Hiermee wil die Nuwe NP die Minister graag bystaan. Ons glo aan Suid-Afrika eerste, en ons wil van hom ‘n suksesland maak.

Ons steun hierdie begrotingspas. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[After this we can start with the practical aspects: replanning, rebudgeting and export, because the Ministry’s obligations towards the nation stretches much wider than merely its own line function. In close co- operation with other departments, and especially provincial and local planning departments, policy trends of the entire Government ought to ensure that South African cultures are no longer eroded by superficial and violent electronic recreation, that the coastline of South Africa is no longer defaced by the uncontrolled extension of unsustainable holiday town development which is without style, and that fast-growing housing areas reflect the powerful indigenous regional designs of South Africa.

South Africa has problems, but we have the talent and the assets which we could apply in a visionary way. It is precisely this portfolio which can make the African Renaissance and Nepad work. The New NP would like to assist the Minister in this. We believe in South Africa first and we want to make it a winning country.

We support this budget. [Applause.]]

Prof I J MOHAMED: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister and hon members, it is a pleasure for me to support, on behalf of the ANC, the Budget Vote of the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology. I congratulate Mama Njobe on her appointment as chairperson of our portfolio committee. I want to say to the hon Deputy Minister Brigitte Mabandla that I very much appreciate the poem that she has read here about Saartjie Baartman. It is deeply moving.

The department’s activities are divided into five programmes: Administration, Arts and Culture, the National Archives of South Africa, the National Language Service and Science, Technology and Meta-information. The latter programme creates the framework and strategy for the development of science and technology. The department Budget Vote increased by 12,8% to approximately R1,364 billion from the year 2001-02 to the year 2002-03.

I shall confine my comments to the Science, Technology and Meta-information programme, which I shall abbreviate to Science and Technology and its various subprogrammes. The share of this programme in the Budget Vote is 55,4%. This is down from 60,3% from the previous year, largely due to increases in spending on Arts and Culture and National Language Service programmes. There are no grounds for complaint about a bigger share for the Arts and Culture or National Language Service programme, particularly as the Science and Technology allocation grows by an average of nearly 10% per year over the medium term. But, as I explained, the role of science and technology, as hon members see, I believe, is very extensive and crucial, and so this Budget Vote should be increased substantially.

The allocation to science and technology is approximately R755,9 million, an increase of 9,7% on the previous year. This allocation is projected to increase by 16,1% in 2003-04. Minister Ngubane and his department and the director-general, of course, as well as the Deputy Minister, Ms Brigitte Mabandla, must have convinced Government of the important role science and technology play as driver of economic development and making our country a credible competitor in the global market. I congratulate them.

The driving force of DACST’s development and the programmes they have implemented rest on the National System of Innovation. The department has established a National Advisory Council on Innovation, NACI, to oversee the innovation process and advise the Minister on various aspects of policy. Before I get to the details of policy and the Budget Vote, I want to ask, as required by the Public Finance Management Act, the PFMA, how the budget of DACST responds to key Government policy issues. I can discuss just one such issue.

The major problem confronting our country and Government is to bring the poor and marginalised into the mainstream of the economy and society. To resolve this problem requires rapid economic growth and hence the creation of jobs. This problem was researched by Naci and I will summarise its report because it has a direct bearing on our oversight function regarding the Budget Vote. Members are urged to read the report for the details.

To give the poor access to this requires training and education, otherwise they will not have skills to fill the jobs and skilled labour will have to be imported, which will not solve the problem I stated. To develop the economy we need competitive industries and products to create niche markets, and this requires innovation. There has been a decline of real per capita gross domestic product since 1970 and more rapidly since 1991. To change this situation there is a need for major technological progress, given the technological state of the global economy.

But what is the picture of this in our country? The Naci report shows that technical progress to output growth in West Germany is 87%, in France and the UK 78%, in Japan 59% and in the USA 50%, while in Africa it is 0% and in the East Asia 28%. In South Africa in the 1970’s it declined by 0,49%. In the 1980’s it was 0,34% and in the 1990’s it was 1,07%.

Clearly there is a massive need for investment in human capital and particularly in mathematics and science as drivers of technology, the report shows, but there is a decline in the number of students who opt for these subjects on the higher grade and so the technological fields are closed to them.

To meet this problem we need to address it at schools. There will have to be serious upgrading programmes for teachers, so that they are qualified to train students in these fields. If this is not done, science and mathematics higher grade teaching will continue to decline, and we shall fail to meet the opening point that I have mentioned on the task of Government to bring the poor and the marginalised into the mainstream. These comments come, basically, from the NACI report. So, let us see how the DACST budget tries to address this problem, while we know that very much depends on education. As an aside, I leave it to the members to decide if the restructuring of the schools and universities address this problem.

The science and technology programme is divided into four subprogrammes. I shall briefly say something about each of the subprogrammes, its tasks and achievements. The first subprogramme is called “Science, Technology and Knowledge System Development and Maintenance.” It is allocated R246 million this year. In broad terms this subprogramme supports science and technology policy formulation, creates working systems and instruments for development. It transfers technology and knowledge to various institutions. For example, the creation of computer-controlled instruments that create vehicle components and assemble these in the motor vehicle industry, as well as train the workforce to operate such equipment.

Clearly, there must be human resource development and upgrading of staff. Of course, jobs are lost at the lower levels and this must be addressed, but the NACI report indicated what must be done. This subprogramme funds the Innovation Fund with an allocation of R136,7 million this year; the poverty relief programme with an allocation of R30 million last year, but only R18 million this year; and the financial assistance projects with an allocation of R74,5 million this year.

The Innovation Fund was created to focus on large-scale projects with a significant research and development programme. The aim is to enhance the efficiency of scientific and technology institutions, improve the quality and quantity of science and technology skills, and produce advanced production systems and products. For example, biologists, organic chemists and gold mining engineers were brought together by Mintek to develop bioleaching. This recovers gold from gold-bearing ore by biochemical means rather than purely nonorganic chemical means, which uses dangerous chemicals.

Bioleaching is similar to the process whereby microbes take nitrogen from the air and fix it to the roots of plants to enable the plant to grow, rather than taking the nitrogen from chemical fertilisers. This knowledge would then also be brought to small-scale miners who use extensively dangerous chemicals like mercury and cyanide. When the mercury is heated, which the miners do, the vapours cause irreversible brain damage. Perhaps members have also seen iron and steel produced in computer-controlled furnaces and the conveyance of molten metals in large computer-controlled bins.

Similarly, members may have seen straight steel rods being rolled out between rollers shaped like power stations on cooling towers, of course, on a smaller scale. These designs come from a mathematical programme. These examples are meant to show members the importance of science and mathematics.

This subprogramme also has a target to establish a bioinformatics resource centre in 2002 to 2003. Another target is to establish the first biotechnology centre of excellence. One of the lead programmes of the department is in the area of biotechnology under which food production, nutrition, medicines and health care, environmental applications and industrial applications were studied.

This programme in particular has an important role to play in the Nepad project. Subprogramme 2 is called “Support for Institutions active in Science, Technology and Information Service Activities.” The allocation for this subprogramme is R457,7 million. This subprogramme funds the Human Science Research Council, the HSRC, which receives R65,1 million in the present year. The HSRC does sociological research - the Minister has already alluded to this - for example school needs, the impact on communities who live in very densely populated areas or survival strategies of the unemployed and the poor. This subprogramme also funds the national library for the blind and literature for the visually handicapped.

This also funds the National Research Foundation, NRF, which was allocated R222,3 million this year. The NRF funds university bursaries as well as research and our national facilities. The national facilities are top-rate research institutions and include the Astronomical Observatory, the Hartebeesthoek Radio Astronomical Observatory, the SA Large Telescope and the iThemba Laboratory for Accelerator-Based Sciences. The latter produce radiopotes for medical diagnostic purposes and treats cancer with its nuclear particle beam that cannot be treated with the conventional cobalt system. This treatment is also given to people from outside our borders and is, therefore, another support for Nepad.

The SA Large Telescope, SALT, along with other observatories, will obtain information about our galaxy, ie the Milky Way, and thus make a contribution to international science. Remember that our galaxy is a spiral galaxy which extends over a distance which takes a ray of light 100 000 years to travel from one end of the diameter of a galaxy to the other. Remember the excitement and inspiration your children and my grandchildren will have when they visit these sites and experience the marvels of the universe, and of science and technology. Some day we will run out of industrial minerals we now mine. We will then have to use the knowledge we have gained from these observations to bring these materials from other planets into our solar system.

Subprogrammes 3 is called “Science and Society.” We are basically trying to increase the interest of the community in science and technology, to try and get students to study mathematics and science. I will not extend more on that because of time, but the Deputy Minister has already expounded on that.

Subprogramme 4 is ``Technology Development.’’ It identifies key technologies and hence gives direction to the sectors information technology, biotechnology and advanced materials.

I just want to remind hon members that physicists have discovered and advanced material, a very high conductor of heat. If research can bring the cost of that material down it will resolve the problem of solar energy in the rural areas. This, too, is in support of Nepad. I pay tribute to Dr Stobie of the Astronomical Observatory for the work he has done, particularly on SALT, and I express my condolences to his family on his recent death.

Finally, I which to tell DACST that it is doing well. It has reported, as required by the PFMA, but should please give us some more measurable outputs. It should also not spread its information so that we must hunt for it. I hope Minister Ngubane, his department and the director-general will manage to convince Government that their work deserves more than what they are allocated. I wish them well. [Applause.]

Dr C P MULDER: Mnr die Voorsitter, agb Minister Ngubane en agb adjunkminister Mabandla, Europa was nie altyd so welvarend en op die voorpunt van tegnologiese ontwikkeling soos vandag nie. Baie eeue lank tydens die donker Middeleeue was Europa in ‘n intellektuele duisternis gehul.

Die vraag is: Waarom het Europa ná die Renaissance so vooruitgegaan en ontwikkel? Baie redes kan aangevoer word, maar historici stel dit dat een van die belangrikste redes die feit is dat die opvoeding in Europa na die Renaissance in die mense se spreektale plaasgevind en nie meer in die hoë statustaal van daardie tyd, naamlik Latyn nie. Nou praat pres Mbeki van ‘n Afirka Renaissance en Nepad waarmee Afrika opgebou moet word. Die VF steun sy Nepakinisiatief, maar glo ‘n belangrike voorwaarde is dat die Afrikaspreektale meer na vore moet kom in die plek van die koloniale tale soos Frans en Engels.

Die Minister van Kuns, Kultuur, Wetenskap en Tegnologie is onder andere belas met die belangrike taak om die Grondwet se artikel oor taal te help uitvoer. Artikel 6(2) van die Grondwet stel dit dat die staat praktiese en daadwerklike maatreëls moet tref om die status van dié tale te verhoog en hul gebruik te bevorder. Sou ons nie die status van die inheemse tale verhef het deur ook byvoorbeeld Zoeloe- of Sothonaamborde by die Parlement aan te bring nie? Dit lyk of die ANC-regering skaam is vir hierdie tale en daarom net Engels op al die naamborde gebruik.

Tot op hede is die saak nog nie reggestel nie en die Minister en sy departement moet daarmee help, aangesien dit ook hulle taak is om na die tale van Suid-Afrika te kyk. Die VF het ‘n klagte by PanSAT daaroor gelê en vertrou dat hulle die onreg teenoor ander Suid-Afrikaanse tale by die Parlement sal insien. PanSAT sit egter met meer as 200 agterstallige sake. Dit is in hierdie Minister se vermoë om PanSAT sterker te maak, nie net ten opsigte van sy begroting en personeel nie, maar ook om daaraan werklike wetlike tande te gee. Staatsdepartemente soos die Departement van Openbare Werke is deur PanSAT skuldig bevind dat hulle die Grondwet skend ten opsigte van sy taalbeleid. Tog ignoreer die betrokke departement die skuldigbevinding. As die beoogde taalwetgewing van die Minister al deurgevoer was, sou ons die meeste van die probleme in die departemente en die Parlement kon voorkom het. Waarom is die taalwet nog steeds nie deurgevoer nie? Is dit nog ‘n IVP-Minister wat deur die ANC gesaboteer word en dan moet hierdie Raad die probleme namens die ANC hanteer?

Prof Albert Weideman van die Eenheid vir die Ontwikkeling van Taalvaardigheid aan die UP het onlangs bevind dat daar ‘n sterk afname in taalvaardigheid onder Suid-Afrikaanse studente is. Die keuse van Suid- Afrikaanse ouers is om hulle kinders in ‘n hoëstatustaal soos Engels op te voed en dit is besig om tot ‘n tragiese afname in taalgeletterdheid en taalvaardigheid te lei. Dit geld nie net vir swart sprekers vir wie Engels ‘n tweede of ‘n derde taal is nie, maar ook ander sprekers vir wie Engels ook ‘n tweede of ‘n derde taal is.

Hierdie Minister en sy departement het ‘n belangrike taak om te help dat Nepad en die Afrika Renaissance slaag deur Afrikamense hul trots op hul tale terug te gee. Die VF help hom graag daarmee. Ons steun die departement se werk. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Dr C P MULDER: Mr Chairman, hon Minister Ngubane and hon Deputy Minister Mabandla, Europe was not always as prosperous and at the forefront of technological development as is the case today. For many centuries during the dark Middle Ages Europe was wrapped in intellectual darkness.

The question is: Why did Europe prosper and develop so much after the Renaissance? Many reasons can be given, but historians give as one of the most important reasons the fact that education in Europe following the Renaissance took place in the people’s spoken languages and no longer in the high-status language of that time, namely Latin. Now President Mbeki is talking about an African Renaissance and Nepad, by way of which Africa must be built up. The FF supports his Nepad initiative, but believes an important condition is that the spoken African languages should come to the fore more strongly in the place of colonial languages like French and English.

The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology is, inter alia, tasked with the important task to help execute the Constitution’s section on language. Section 6(2) of the Constitution states that the state must take practical and positive measures to elevate the status and advance the use of these languages. Would we not have elevated the status of the indigenous languages by also, for example, adding Zulu or Sotho signposts at Parliament? It looks as though the ANC Government is ashamed of these languages and therefore only uses English on all the signposts.

To date the matter has still not been rectified and the Minister and his department must help in this regard, as it is also their task to see to the languages of South Africa. The FF laid a complaint with PanSALB about the matter and trusts that they will recognise the injustice towards other South African languages at Parliament. However, PanSALB is more than 200 cases in arrears. It is within this Minister’s power to strengthen PanSALB, not only with regard to its budget and staff, but also to give it real statutory teeth. Government departments like the Department of Public Works have been found guilty by PanSALB of violating the Constitution with regard to their language policy. And yet the relevant department ignores the conviction. If the Minister’s envisaged language legislation had already been passed, we would have been able to prevent most of the problems in the departments and at Parliament. Why has the language Act still not been passed? Is it that another IFP Minister has been sabotaged by the ANC and then this House must deal with the problems on behalf of the ANC?

Prof Albert Weideman from the Unit for Language Skills Development at the University of Pretoria recently found that there has been a sharp decline in language skills among South African students. The choice of South African parents is to educate their children in a high-status language like English and this is leading to a tragic decline in language literacy and language skills. This applies not only to black speakers for whom English is a second or third language, but also among other speakers for whom English is also a second or third language.

This Minister and his department have an important task to help Nepad and the Africa Renaissance succeed by returning to African people their pride in their languages. The FF would be glad to help him with that. We support the department’s work. [Time expired.]]

Moh M A SEECO: Modulasetilo, ka lefapha leno la mafaratlhatlha, e bong la Bokgabo, Setso, Saense le Thekenoloji, Aforika Borwa e netefatsa fa e diragatsa Tekanyetsokabo go badiragatsi e bile e itshupa ka go tsaya karolo ka ditshwantsho, tota le kwa moseja. Mafelo a bommabana a, a thusiwe ka matlole go rotloetsa morafe wa ka moso. Ke bua ka dikopelo tsa setso le botaki go romelwa kwa mafelong a a kwa ntle. Botaki ke sengwe le sengwe jaaka puo, mokwalo, mokgwa wa go apara, go betla ka lejwe kgotsa legong, go bopa le go loga.

Lefapha leno le tlhabolola kitso e batho ba rona ba nang nayo gore ba bone botshelo. UCDP e amogela Tekanyetsokabo eno. (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[Ms M A SEECO: Chairperson, with this department of infrastructure, that is, the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, South Africa confirms that it uses this Budget towards the performers and it also proves itself by taking part in the film industry, even abroad. Cultural centres should be assisted with funds to encourage our future generation. I am talking about cultural songs and art that should be sent abroad. Art entails things such as speech, writing, style of clothing, sculpting with stone or wood, sculpting with clay and knitting.

This department improves the knowledge that our people have to earn a living. The UCDP accepts this Budget.]

The UCDP considers the budget of this department as realising the potential of the arts, culture, science and technology in social and economic development. The ongoing transformation of the department into an organisation that promotes lifelong learning for all South Africans is a prerequisite for fulfilling key Government objectives.

Congratulations to Dr Ben Ngubane, who is the chairman of the Commonwealth Science Council for the triennium 2000-2003. South Africa will host the 21st meeting of the Commonwealth Science Council in 2003.

The bulk of the spending on administration goes towards the personnel expenditure at approximately 66%.

We appreciate the process and initiatives that have been undertaken by the department over the past two years, namely the South African Music Week; exporting craft work to Burkina Faso and celebrating South Africa in London. The music industry task team process, which lays the foundation for the development of an export council in the cultural industry … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Dr A I VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, hon Minister, the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology distributes the funds allocated for research to the different research councils. The funds made available to the Agricultural Research Council amount to R265 million. This amount, in real terms, is equivalent to only 55% of what the ARC received in 1992.

During the last couple of years the funds allocated to the Agricultural Research Council were decreased year by year, from an amount of R337 million in 1997-98 to R262 million in the year 2001-02. This had catastrophic effects on the ARC because the projected amount for the year 2002 was in the vicinity R600 million. This decline is leading to the downfall of the ARC, which is the cornerstone of agriculture and agricultural development in southern Africa.

The agricultural research ship is sinking. Many promising research projects are abandoned. A total of 62 key researchers left the ARC this year for jobs outside this company and in the private sector. More than 93 critical posts remain vacant. Many institutes, the Onderstepoort Veterinary Institute, for instance, are in crisis owing to the lack of funds and resignation of personnel. I can go on, and on and on.

While the funds of the ARC decline each year, those of the Medical Research Council and other research councils have increased by 30%, and those of the Bureau of Standards by 61%. This indicates to the agricultural sector that the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology does not consider agricultural research as very important and gives it a low priority.

I would say that reconsideration of this stance is absolutely necessary. And if funds are not made available and we do not look at this important infrastructure, which we cannot do without, I can forecast now that in the next two to three years agricultural research will disappear and food will, eventually, have to be imported into South Africa.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! I call upon the hon L L L Chiwayo, who is going to make his maiden speech, to address the House.

Hon MEMBERS: Hear! Hear! [Applause.] Mr L L L CHIWAYO: Chairperson, lend me your ear, lend me your ear. I am told that this is a popular phrase that is contained in most of Shakespeare’s books, but I was advised that if I was to employ its usage I should exercise extreme care and caution that there are not the likes of Mike Tyson in the audience, who might give a literal meaning to that phrase. [Laughter.]

I had an exciting experience about two days ago. I met a young man from the North West. His name is Given and his surname I have forgotten. He is twenty years old. He is in his second year of study at one of the colleges in Cape Town. He approached me and told me that he was quite proud that there are those who are young-looking, like ourselves, who are part of this House. [Laughter.] Somebody has just added ``good looking’’, and I am sure there are many other judges who might confirm that. [Laughter.]

He went on and said that he wished to be part of this House one day and that he wanted to serve his people and follow in the example of many leaders, current and former leaders, such as our former president Nelson Mandela. For me it was quite exciting that young people could have that sense of commitment and see the significance of this House, especially in relation to impacting on the lives of our people out there.

I sat back that evening and reflected on that matter. I could not help but be preoccupied with our own experiences and other things might have brought about the experience of coming to this House. I thought about the fact that he was 22 years old, and not particularly active in student activities. By the way, one piece of advice that I gave him was that he should start engaging in activities that would show his peers that he does indeed care about our people, and primarily to focus on issues that affect not only his sector but those around him.

I was interpreting the implications of that on his career and any possibility of him serving in such a House. I could not help but think that he would have to gain 10 years, of experience before he could make it to this House. In other words, he might, depending on how he fared, find himself in this House within the next 10 years when he would be only 32.

That makes one realise just how one is humbled and honoured to find oneself serving in this House, and on that basis, I want to take this opportunity to thank the ANC for having shortened that period, because some of us had the honour and the humbling experience of serving in the legislative assemblies, especially in the Senate, at the age of 25. [Applause.]

I want to thank our people and their struggle, because that made us what we are. That struggle made us comprehend the harsh realities of the situations that we were faced with at an early age, to the extent that we realised that those harsh conditions were not created by God, but were man-made and, since they were man-made, it would take human effort to change those conditions, and not prayer only.

Having related that experience, which was a very disappointing one, I want to mention a phone-in programme that was hosted by DJ Khabzela on Y-FM. One of the young people said - I want to repeat what he said - that:

We are tired of these exiles. We are tired of the former prisoners. We are tired of the politicians. We want to be led by somebody we can relate to.

It was rather disappointing that a young person, who I thought was between the ages of 15 and 22, had such a short memory, a memory that displayed the ignorance that might be creeping into the minds of many young people like him out there, who might not be able to interpret and relate the exciting experiences of the transformation process that is unfolding in our country to the sacrifices and struggles that were waged by our people, including by the very politicians he was talking about, and the exiles and prisoners.

I felt terribly disappointed, not because I also happen to be a former Robben Island prisoner and therefore, that if indeed many of them think in that manner, then chances of any exile making it to any serious leadership position in government would be limited. That was not particularly my worry. My worry was the fact that we do not seem to have a memory bank which young people could tap into to come to terms with the realities of our history, to come to terms with, most importantly, those things that are critical in making us the winning nation that we are.

Many people would ask: Why these stories and what relevance do they have to the debate at hand? The latter example of the disappointing youngster inevitably means that if one confronts each one of them and asks them who their role models are, they are likely to identify instant millionaires who, in a split second, rob a bank and make themselves important members of society because they have accumulated riches. I also think that some of the role models that they might identify are those who continuously spin cars in the townships. They might also see them as people they could look up to.

I do think, with a sigh of relief, that, if confronted again, that person is also likely to identify artists. He is likely to talk about Mandoza, Arthur Mafokate and Hugh Masikela. That person is likely to talk about the many actors that we have seen on TV because, at least, those are some of the things that are quite important in occupying this vacuum of a lack of role models that we can promote in society and that young people can look up to. I think that this invariably indicates the significance of the arts as a terrain of not only raising a profile of individuals among societies, but also, most importantly, as a possible platform that can clearly develop role models that we can always look up to.

Regarding the issue I raised of a young person who is completely ignorant, I think the important question that we must ask ourselves as members - I am sure all of us would be disappointed if the memories of this exciting experiences were to be forgotten in a short space of time - is: what can we do to change the situation?

One of my responses would be that we have to be determined to free the arts, culture and heritage from the intensive care unit in which they have historically languished and continue to languish today. I am deliberately raising this point, and I hope the hon members I spoke to about this will not feel embarrassed.

When I decided to serve on the Portfolio Committee on Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, many of my colleagues asked me why I was wasting my time there, when there were more important committees I could serve on, for example communications, finance and a whole range of others. ``That is the committee of people who really do not want to have their energies engaged’’, one of the views went. Unfortunately, it is exactly this perception, in my view, that might be dictating the very figures that we normally see when talking about arts, culture, science and technology, because in a way it is a function that finds itself relegated to the periphery of social development, because people think that it is something that is not important.

Historically, it has found itself as a function moving between functions. It was part of education, treated like a step-daughter or step-child. It found itself in some provinces, for instance, as part of welfare. The only relationship I can think of among sports, recreation, arts, culture and welfare is that if one is a member of the Health and Racquet Club, it attends to one’s welfare or lifestyle. I cannot see any other relationship whatsoever.

The point I am trying to make is that unless we recognise the significance of this function, especially in a manner that speaks to the figures, ie the budgetary issues that we are talking about today, we will not impact on the perceptions of young people out there. Arts, culture and heritage are not about playing and sweating, it is serious business. It is a serious business because any nation that wants its existence to be known primarily relies on this very important area of life to communicate any important message about its existence.

It is not an accident that the aesthetic value that we as South Africans attach to music would tilt more in favour of American music as opposed to our own, because of the significant attention which those musicians are given in their own countries. A Michael Jackson would be as important as a Bill Gates in America, unlike an artist who will die and be buried a pauper in South Africa. So those are some of the things that one wishes to raise as means of drawing a parallel.

As a nation of information, there are important issues that we always have to confront, such as issues of identity, which are about a sense of national unity, as well as issues of common belonging, unity, solidarity and patriotism. This brings us to a very important question: What can we do to ensure that, indeed, South Africa becomes a common nation and a winning nation? There are a number of important debates that we have been engaged in, including the one about attempts to define what makes a nation. There are different perspectives in regard to characteristics that might make a nation, but there is common understanding around issues such as common national boundaries, a common economy, a shared culture, and so forth.

I think that alone indicates the significance of culture as something that can help in building a nation. When talking about culture, there are both tangible and intangible aspects that we can talk about. For instance, there are issues of norms and values. What distinguishes members of the animal kingdom, ie us as human beings from dogs, is the fact that we have norms and values that we subscribe to or norms and values that guide our conduct and behavioural standards, as opposed to dogs, which can engage in all manner of practices that we would refer to as antisocial behaviour.

Arts and culture can play an important role in fostering a sense of community spirit, of solidarity. The fact that people are up in arms, for instance, over a TV programme that shows somebody who deals in human parts is because people are concerned and have the sense of patriotism that we are supposed to have towards the next human being. Most importantly, this ensures that antisocial activity is completely gotten rid of in society. That is where arts and culture can play a role - in issues of solidarity, as I said, and patriotism.

However, arts and culture can also play an important role in fostering a sense of tolerance. It is sometimes shocking to those of us who have had … [Time expired.][Applause.]

Mnr C AUCAMP: Mnr die Voorsitter, die belangrikste instrumente tot die bewaring van ‘n kulturele erfenis, wat ons Minister se verantwoordelikheid is, is nie dooie standbeelde en museums nie, maar lewende monumente, die name van ons dorpe en stede, berge en riviere. Oor die kwessie van plekname in Suid-Afrika oefen hierdie Minister sy bevoegdheid uit kragtens wet 118 van 1998 en met behulp van ‘n statutêre liggaam, die Suid-Afrikaanse Pleknaamraad. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Mr Chairman, the most important instruments in the conservation of a cultural heritage, which is our Minister’s responsibility, are not dead statues and museums, but living monuments, the names of our towns and cities, mountains and rivers. The Minister exercises his competence on the issue of place names in South Africa in terms of Act 118 of 1998, assisted by a statutory body, the South African Geographical Names Council.]

According to this Act, this council has certain duties, inter alia, to facilitate the establishment of provincial geographical names committees; to set guidelines for these committees and for local and provincial authorities; to liaise with cultural, historic and linguistic organisations, to identify names in need of revision, in consultation with provincial governments.

In die Minister se toespraak by die opening van die Pleknaamraad op 8 Desember 1999 het hy getoon dat hy begrip het vir die kompleksiteit van hierdie probleem en vir die kulturele sensitiwiteit daarvan. Die Minister het hom soos volg uitgelaat: (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[In the Minister’s speech at the inauguration of the Geographical Names Council on 8 December 1999 he displayed his understanding of the complexity of this problem and its cultural sensitivity. The Minister expressed himself as follows:]

We all know too well how naming can be used to divide and segregate a country … I hope that the establishment of this council will pave the way for the constructive use of names, to show our diversity, our vibrant multicultural history and experiences of our many people.

The Minister then stressed the need for place-name contexts to be representative of the country’s many peoples, languages and cultures.

Mooi woorde - en ons stem saam met die Minister, maar wat gebeur egter? In een enkele Nag van die Lang Messe word feitlik elke dorpsnaam in die Noordelike Provinsie, van Warmbad tot Messina, van Ellisras tot Duiwelskloof, verander. [Fine words - and we agree with the Minister, but what has happened? On a single Night of the Long Knives the names of practically every town in the Northern Province, from Warmbaths to Messina, from Ellisras to Duiwelskloof, have been changed.]

… an action that makes a mockery of the famous words of the Freedom Charter that ``South Africa belongs to all its people’’.

‘n Gebeurtenis wat soos min ander ooit simbolies vir veral Afrikaners sê: Dis nie julle plek hierdie nie. Die gevolg hiervan is vervreemding, verwydering en verset.

Ek wil die Minister enkele vrae vra wat ek hoop hy vandag kan antwoord. Is daar ‘n provinsiale pleknaamkomitee in die Noordelike Provinsie ingestel? Is daar vooraf met alle gemeenskappe gekonsulteer? Is daar riglyne neergelê vir die provinsiale owerheid? Is die rits dorpname wat meteens verander is wel na oorlegpleging met die Suid-Afrikaanse Pleknaamraad geïdentifiseer en verander, soos deur die wet vereis? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[An event which, like few others before, has symbolically told the Afrikaner in particular: This place is not yours. This has brought about estrangement, separation and resistance.

I want to ask the Minister a few questions which I hope he can answer today. Was a provincial geographical names committee appointed in the Northern Province? Were all communities consulted beforehand? Were guidelines established for the provincial authority? Was the whole series of names of towns that were summarily changed actually identified and changed after consultation with the SA Geographical Names Council, as required by law?]

Furthermore, is the Minister of the opinion that this conduct in the Northern Province will pave the way for the constructive use of names, as the Minister promised in his speech? Does the Minister think that the end result of this bulldozing exercise in the Northern Province will show our diversity and our multicultural history? Will the names in this province and eventually in South Africa be representative of the country’s many peoples, as the Minister promised? Is the Minister of the opinion that the statement of the chairperson of the SA Geographical Names Council, Prof Mathenjwa, in the only published annual report of 31 March 2001, is in accordance with the objectives of the law, when he said: ``South Africa should move fast, like its neighbouring countries that moved fast to remove anything that reminded them of the colonial and oppressive years’’? Anything! A clean sweep! A total onslaught.

Die finale beslissing is in die hande van die Minister. Hy sal eersdaags sy stempel moet plaas op hierdie daad van kulturele imperialisme. Gaan hy dit doen? Of gaan hy hom laat lei deur die riglyne wat hy self gestel het in daardie goeie toespraak wat hy gemaak het? Die AEB doen ‘n beroep op die Minister, aangesien in talle opsigte afgewyk is van die neergelegde beleid, selfs in die norme van die wet. Die proses is gekenmerk deur ‘n gebrek aan konsultasie van gemeenskappe. Ons wil vir die Minister sê: Stop die bus! (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The final decision is in the hands of the Minister. Before long he will have to put his stamp on this deed of cultural imperialism. Will he do it? Or will he be led by the guidelines that he himself established in that great speech of his? The AEB is making an appeal to the Minister, because the established policy has been contravened in many respects, even in the norms of the law. The process has been characterised by a lack of consultation with communities. We want to tell the Minister: Stop the bus!]

He must get the communities together; let all the interests be put on the table; let South Africans in their diversity deliberate together and work towards a solution together. There must be a way in which we can solve this problem together. The present alternative is one of alienation, to the detriment of loyalty, patriotism and harmony, and, finally, to the detriment of all the peoples in South Africa.

Ons wag in spanning om te sien wat die agb Minister oor hierdie saak gaan doen. [We are waiting in suspense to see what the hon the Minister is going to do about this matter.] Mr V C GORE: Chairperson, the DA listened to and laments with the hon Njobe over her humiliating and degrading experience at the Cango Caves. However, I would like to take this opportunity to remind the hon Njobe and the ANC that the reason for her distress was none other than her new political bedfellow, the New NP.

When Mark Shuttleworth launched into space and travelled to the International Space Station during April 2002, he not only became the first ``Afronaught’’, but, more importantly, he ignited the imagination of thousands of South Africans. It is now groovy to be a geek, trendy to be a nerd and downright cool to be smart. Science and technology are no longer in the domain of the supernerd, as it is now hip to be square.

Due to time constraints, it is extremely difficult to highlight the achievements of this department, and there are many. The DA congratulates the Minister on these. I would, however, like to concentrate on a few key issues.

Perhaps the Minister would like to respond to the embarrassing situation his department finds itself in. On the one side of the House, the hon President in his opening-of-Parliament address announced that Microsoft would be donating software to 32 000 schools. On the other side of the House, we have the National Advisory Council on Innovation, established in terms of legislation to advise the Minister and Cabinet on scientific matters, advocating the adoption of open-source software, such as Linux, as the most appropriate manner for addressing the digital divide. This is in direct opposition to the President’s actions to make use of proprietary software such as that of Microsoft. Is this conflict a result of miscommunication or does it highlight the growing political divide between the IFP and the ANC?

African and South African problems are unique, and therefore require unique solutions. We need South Africans to find ways to pump water to the top of the Maluti Mountains, to electrify Eshowe and to supply telephones to Toekomsrus.

It is therefore distressing to note the continued R&D spending as a percentage of GDP remaining at an unacceptably low level compared to that of other countries. If we as South Africans are going to find solutions to the myriad of problems that face this country, more money has to be spent on research and development. I encourage the Minister to address this serious situation.

In addition, if one takes a walk through the labs and research facilities of our country, one of the first things one will notice is the shortage of young people doing research. Research, by its very nature, requires fresh and supple minds to come up with innovative answers. An alarm bell is ringing; either the hon Minister reverse the flow of our top young minds overseas and encourage them to stay, or South Africa faces the real risk that we will not be able to do any meaningful research in a few years’ time.

When we look at Mark Shuttleworth and his billions, we generally see the exception rather than the rule. This fairy tale needs to become the rule, rather than the exception. All South Africans have to embrace the entrepreneurial flair of Shuttleworth - with high risk comes high reward.

The DA fully supports the initiatives of the department in its promotion of the entrepreneur through SMME development, particularly through projects such as the MAC centres, Brain and Godisa. However, the DA would like to see a few things go a bit further.

First of all, there must be easier access to start-up funding; the cost of business must be reduced; must be encouraged; more industry research institution cross-pollination and, finally, there must be tax incentives for technology-based research.

If South Africa continues to promote science and technology and accelerates support in innovation, then we will see thousands of Shuttleworths blasting off on a daily basis in search of brave new worlds. [Applause.]

Ms S D MOTUBATSE: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, the ANC supports this budget allocation for 2002-03. The reason for that is that we heard our people in 1955 when they spoke in Kliptown. All of us heard our people saying: The doors of learning and culture shall be opened. They said this in many languages: Minango ya pfunzo na mvelele i do vulwa''; Amathuba okufunda namasiko ayovulelwa wonke umuntu’’; ``Die deure van geleerdheid en kultuur sal oopgemaak word’’.

Re le ba ANC re thekga ditekanyetšo tše ka gore re ile ra itlema gore re tla šomela setšhaba. Lefapha le la tša Botaki le lona le itlemile go ya ka dingwalwa tšeo re di lebeletšego gore le tla diriša tšhelete ye go šomela setšhaba. Tše dingwe tša dilo tšeo ba itlemilego ka tšona ke gore ba tla kgonthišiša gore maikemišetšo a ditšhelete a šomišwa gore setšhaba se tšwetšwe pele, se thekgiwe, gomme se kgone go ntšha bokgoni bja sona ka tsela yeo e feletšego.

Gape re lemogile gore lefapha le na le tokelo ya gore le thekge bao ba nago le bokgoni, gomme le diriše tšhelete ye gore batho ba gabo rena le bona ba nke ba tlogele bošuana. Batho ba gabo rena ba thekgwe ke mmušo woo ba o kgethilego gore go tle go be le tšwelopele mo nageng.

Naga ye ya rena e humile. Lehumo la rena ga se lehumo leo le swanago le la dinaga tša kua kgakala, eupša ke lehumo leo le akaretšago tsebo, setšo le bokgoni. Ke ka fao re rego lefapha a le thekge batho ba rena, gomme bokgoni bjo le bohwa bja rena di tsebjwe lefase ka bophara.

Ge re etla mo go tša dipolelo, rena re le ba ANC gammogo le lefapha, re kgonthišitše gore go be le bhoto yeo e agiwago, e lego Pan-South African Language Board. Bhoto ye e na le mošomo o mogologolo, o e bilego e le sephara. E swanetše go kgonthišiša gore maleme a rena ka moka a tšwela pele. Lefapha le le swanetše go kgonthišiša gore maleme a batho ba gabo rena a išwa godimo go swana le maleme ka moka, go se ke gwa be le leleme leo le tšeelwago fase. Le na le mošomo wa go kgonthišiša gore maleme ka moka a thekgwa, e bile a a hlokomelwa. Le gona ka mo ntlong ye, re swanetše go kgonthišiša gore maleme a a hlomphiwa. [Legoswi.]

Maleme a rena ke a mantši, eupsa ga go na leleme leo le lego godimo ga le lengwe. Ntlo ye e swanetše go kgonthišiša gore dingwalwa le tšohle tšeo di dirwago ka mo ntlong ye di a fetolelwa, gape le gore dipolelo tša rena di a agiwa.

Ge re etla mo go ngwalweng, polelo ya rena e swanetše go hlweka gore e tle e kgone go amogelega mo setšhabeng. Ke leboga Tona ka gore ke lemogile gore le mo peakanyong ya lefapha o lekile gore a bee šeleng ka thoko gore ge kabinete e fetša go amogela ditšhišinyo tša gagwe, a se ke a ba le letlakajana, eupša a e thekge ka šeleng gore e kgone go tšwela pele. Se ke tsela yeo re swanetšego gore re šome ka yona.

Modulasetulo, go nyaka gore gape re hlokomele tsela yeo re šomišanago le setšhaba sa rena ka gona. Mokgwa woo e lego gore ge re šoma, re le mo re le baetapele, menyako ka moka e phetha tseo re ilego ra ikana gore di tla dirwa. Ke ra ka gore re a tseba gore metse-setoropong yeo re dulago go yona lehono go na le maleme a mantši. Ka moka re nyaka gore maleme a a hlomphiwe. Eupša ge tšhelete e sa thekge mešomo yeo, re tla no fela re hwetša re šalela morago.

Re a tseba gore ka setšo sa gabo rena re kgona go hlaloša tšeo di sa re swarego gabotse, tšeo di re kwišago bohloko, le tšeo re di thabelago. Ke nyaka go dira mohlala ka dibini tše pedi tšeo ke di hlomphago kudu. Ke bolela ka yoo a šetšego a re šiile, e lego yena Mpharanyane. Mpharanyane e be e le monna wa go tšwa ka mo Foreisetata, a kgona go opela kudu. Go la Natala go na le monna o mongwe yoo a bitšwago Vusi … Ge o theeleditše mmino wa gagwe o kgona go kwišiša gore kua dinagamagaeng, go swana le KwaZulu-Natal, go direga eng ge re etla mo go jeng nama, ka gore monna yo o bolela ka mokgwa wo a kunanago ka gona le ka mokgwa wo yena a ratago tša batho ba bangwe. O tloga a itlhalosa gore le ge a gobetše, ge nama e le mo kgauswi a ka se e tlogele yona. Le sepetlele a ka se ye. [Lesego.] Tše ke dilo tšeo re tsebago gore di a direga, gomme ke ka lebaka la setšo ge re kgona go laodiša ka dilo tše - maemo ao re ikhwetšago go ona.

Mpharanyana yo ke rego ke a mo rata, ke gopola ka ngwaga wa 1975. Re ile ra tsena lebenkeleng la Edgars leo lehono batho ba baso ba rekago go lona ka bontši. Le be le sa bulele batho ba baso diakhanto ka nako yeo. O be o re ge o tsena, o swanetše gore o ntshe ka potleng o itie tafola. Go ile ge go thoma nako ya go dumelela bathobaso go bula diakhanto, ka gore e be e le selo seo se bego se re tšhošitše e bile se re tlabile rena batho ba baso gore o ka šomiša molato bjang? O ka thabela go šomiša dilo tša batho bjang? Mpharanyana a hlama koša ya gore ``ke yo Puleng, o di ragela pele le morago’’, ka gore o kgahlile ke lesogana a le bona le apere gabotse, a re ke raditšhelete, kganthe motho yo o kolota mabenkele le setšhaba ka moka. [Legoswi.] [Lesego.]

Se ke mokgwa woo batho ba rena ba bego ba hlatholla mathata ao ba bego ba hlakana le ona mo bophelong. Ka lebaka leo ke ra gore Tona ga a tšwele pele go thekga batho ba gabo rena ba naga ye gore re ntshe bokgoni bja rena ka botlalo.

Ke nyaka go fetola gannyane polelo yeo re e kwelego e tšwa go Morena Opperman. Ke a kgolwa gore ka moka ga rena re a tseba gore go na le setšo seo se tlilego le bao ba bego ba re kholonaesitše. Tona o tla ntshwarela, ka gore nna ke le Motubatse ga ke kgone go kwešiša gore naa opera ballet e swanetše go tšeelwa godimo go feta dilo tše dingwe mo nageng ya rena? Ke a tseba gore ba gona batho bao ba theeletšego mmino wo, e fela ke ba ba kae gore šeleng ka moka e ka lahlelwa ka moo?

Ke a kgolwa gore ge re ka lebelela dibini tšeo re nago natso, re ka kgona go tšwela pele kudu. Ke nyaka go direla tona mohlala pele ke dula fase. Ge o eya ka thoko ya Mashishing, go na le toropo ka Mpumalanga yeo e bitšwago Mashishi a magolo, ge re e reta. Go na le mehlare yeo e bjetšwego moo ka bontši. Ge motho a lebelela mehlare ye, e mengwe ya yona ke e mebotse ge o le kgole, e fela ge o batamela o lemoga gore ga go na le bjang le bjo bonnyane ka fase ga mohlare, eupša mohlare o go kgahlile. Ge o lebeledišiša gabotse ka fase ga mohlare wo, o hwetša e le gore mohlare wo o nwa meetse kudukudu, ga o dumele gore go be le sebjalo seo se melago ka tlase ga wona. Le ge go le bjalo, motho o kgona go hwetša mehlare yeo e lego ya naga ye, yeo le dinonyana di ipshinago ka go bea dihlaga tša tšona mo go yona.

Mmino le ona o ka tsela yeo. Go na le mebino yeo re e tšeago kgole, gomme ya se age setšhaba sa rena. Go na le mmino woo o rego ge o lahletše seleng ka go ona, setšhaba sa tšwela pele, le bana ba rena ba tseba setšo sa gabo rena, ba tloga le mo mekgobeng, ra fetša bošaedi bjoo bo dirwago ke bana ba rena. [Legoswi.]

Ge ke ruma, ke tla boela lelemeng le la sejakane, ka gore ke nyaka gore Tona a nkwišiše gabotse. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[As the ANC we support this Budget Vote because we have promised to work for the people. We hope that the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology will use this money for the good of the people. One of the things that they promised they would do was to ensure that the budget was used for the development of communities, so that they could show their skills, abilities and capabilities.

We have realised that the department has a duty to support those who have skills in arts and culture, so that they may be helped out of the poverty in which they are submerged. Our Government must support these people, for they voted us into power.

Our country is very rich. Its wealth is different from other countries’ because it includes knowledge, culture and skills. That is why we are saying that the department should support our people so that this heritage and these skills may be known worldwide.

When we come to the issue of languages, as the ANC and as the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology, we ensured that the Pan-South African Language Board was established. It has a huge task. It has to ensure that our languages are developed. This department, too, has to ensure that our languages are elevated to the same level as other languages. There should not be any single language which is looked down upon. The board has to ensure that all languages are supported and promoted. Even in this House we must make sure that languages are respected. [Applause.]

We have many languages, but there is no one language which is above others. This House must ensure that all speeches and documents in Parliament are translated into other languages, and that these languages are further developed.

When we come to the issue of writing, our languages must be superb, so that they are accepted by the communities. I would like to thank the Minister because I have realised that, in an effort to transform the department, he put aside enough money so that after Cabinet had accepted his proposition, he would have the money to carry out those ideas. This is the way in which we have to work.

Chairperson, we also have to revisit the way in which we work with our communities. As leaders, we have to do the things that we have promised we will do. I would like to make an example by citing two musicians that I respect very much. They are the late Mpharanyana and Vusi. Mpharanyana came from the Free State and he could sing marvelously. In KwaZulu-Natal there is Vusi. If one listens to his music, one is able to know what happens in rural areas, like much of KwaZulu-Natal, with regard to issues such as eating meat, because this man talks about how greedy he is and, amazingly, how he likes to be bailed out by other people. He even says that no matter how bad his health might be, if there were meat, he would go out and eat. He says he would not even go to hospital. [Laughter.] These are the things which we know are happening - circumstances that we find ourselves in. It is because of our culture that we get to know about them.

I remember that in 1975 Mpharanyana, whom I have said I liked, sang a certain song. So, one day in 1975 we went to Edgars stores. It is amazing how many black people are purchasing things from this store. Back then it was not their policy for black people to open an account with them. Black people were forced to buy for cash. When things started to become better in the country and black people were allowed to open accounts, we were shocked, because we could not contemplate how we could be allowed to take things from a shop without parting with our money. How could one be happy using other people’s things without paying for them? Then Mpharanyana composed a song titled `` Ke yo Puleng, o di ragela pele le morago [Here is Puleng, he is at sixes and sevens]. He sang about a lady who saw Puleng and liked him because of the beautiful clothes he wore, not knowing that he owed all these shops and a number of people. [Applause.] [Laughter.]

This is how our people could tell about their circumstances and problems in life. Therefore, I would like to urge the Minister to continue supporting our people so that skills such as the ones I talked about could come to the fore.

I would like to deviate a bit and turn to the hon Opperman. I am quite sure that all of us know that we have a culture brought about by those who colonised us. The hon the Minister will bear with me, because I cannot understand how opera and ballet could be held in high esteem compared to other things in our own country. I know that there are people who listen to this kind of music, but how many are they to warrant that money should be thrown in their direction?

I am quite sure that if we could look after our musicians, then we would go forward as a nation. I just want to cite one example for the hon the Minister before I sit down. There is a town around Mashishing, in Mpumalanga, called the great Mashishing, that is when we praise the town. There are a number of trees planted in that area. Some of these trees are very beautiful if one looks at them from afar, but when one comes nearer, one finds they are not as beautiful as they were when one was far away, and that there is no grass under these trees. When one looks closely at these trees, one realises that they absorb quite a substantial volume of water and, as a result, do not allow any plants whatsoever to grow under them. However, these are wild trees which are very beautiful, and birds like to build their nests in them.

Music is exactly the same. There are some types of music that we import from the outside world, and they do not build our nation. Yet there is one that, if we could put our money into it, would help develop our people, and also help our children to know their cultures so they could be kept off the streets. [Applause.]

In conclusion, I would like to turn to English, because I want the hon the Minister to understand me.]

There is so much that the department is doing. I think the Department of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology is one of the best departments. [Applause.] That is in spite of the huge tasks confronting the Minister and the Deputy Minister. To monitor 48 state institutions is not child’s play, but I want to ask a question. I do not know what the Minister and the Deputy Minister have done to the gentlemen and ladies of the press, because we do not see this work being captured by the media. We do not hear much said about all these good things that are happening. Maybe the hon the Minister could respond to that?

Lastly, as a committee, we do not want to see a roll-over in this department because we believe that the community centres that are out there in the townships and the villages can absorb the department’s budget and definitely ensure that our people find meaning in their lives and can remember where they come from and shape their destiny. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF ARTS, CULTURE, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Chairperson, I would like to thank the last hon member to speak here for recognising the wonderful work that my colleague Mrs Mabandla and I are trying to do, in partnership with the director-general, Dr Rob Adam, who heads the department.

Well, quite clearly, the press write stories to sell their newspapers, not to sing the praises of the Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology and the Deputy Minister. So we will hope to impress the wonderful work that we are doing upon the press and make them turn it into stories that excite the country to be more creative and original and therefore to work very hard to attain excellence, because one cannot be a great scientist, researcher or dancer unless one works very, very hard to sharpen one’s skills and attain excellence. [Applause.]

There are issues that have been raised here. I would just like to briefly say that because of the transformation of the performing arts councils into playhouses that we have carried out, we have managed to save a lot of money to give directly to performing arts companies of national significance. Through the restructuring of the State Theatre, we were able to save R10 million, which was allocated to performing arts companies of national significance. We see the evidence of this. Cats at the State Theatre is playing to packed audiences week after week. We have seen it at Artscape and at the Civic. New performances are coming through because the arts companies are getting money directly from us, not as before, when they had to depend on the boards of performing arts councils. We have actually rescued the situation rather than made it worse.

We are also attending this year to more companies, covering as many genres as possible. We want to cover everything from traditional operas, as we saw with Princess Magogo KaDinizulu in Durban, to very, very classical ballet, such as Swan Lake, because these are part of our heritage. Our children must be able to perform any of these. That is why we have established a music and dance troupe, so that we can capture all the dances. Whether Volkspele or Khoisan dance, we will capture it in a group that is capable of presenting this rich heritage, not just for us, but right across the world. Those things are happening and we are increasing the money that we are giving directly to arts companies to R20 million and not channelling it via the playhouses as before. [Applause.]

We are also very much involved with issues other than classical music. We are looking at the classical values that make this nation survive and be great.

We know that religion and family values teach children respect for the law and parents teach them life skills so that they can survive pressures from their peers, particularly when it comes to sexual activity. We are attending to all these things. We organised and launched the moral regeneration conference this year. We are carrying on, working with groups such as Focus on the Family in Durban to create documentation and training programmes to be supplied to students, so that they can be able to stand up, protect themselves and take their own well thought-out decisions.

Another issue that was raised which is of concern to us is the naming of places. The hon Aucamp is quite correct; we cannot just be legalistic and mechanistic in the allocation of new names or name changes. We have to go deeper than that. We have to look at the process by which a new name is adopted, but we must also look at the issue of equity, of justice and of balance. We do not want to create polarised societies in this country. We are interested in the culture of the nation. We must be the ones who build the type of value system that makes for accommodation, tolerance and understanding.

As far as agriculture is concerned I would like to correct the hon Van Niekerk. We are very concerned about the state of affairs at the Agricultural Research Council. The problems came in 1994 when huge areas of transformation were made by the previous government, where they hived off people into different research institutes for agriculture without accompanying financial transfers. We sit in the ARC with huge unpaid leave entitlements that make that institution unattractive to top scientists and researchers. We are, however, dealing with this issue with the Minster of Agriculture.

As far as PanSALB is concerned, ie the one-sidedness of the language service, we are attending to this. We are finalising the issue of the Bill with Cabinet. We are dealing with education, which is now the only area that is unresolved, with the Minister. But we are working with the Minister so that we can get the language Bill before this Parliament. We are obviously going to have to look at some options that will be acceptable to my Cabinet colleagues. What we came with after the language plan task team concluded their recommendation was very comprehensive. However, some people have thought there should be additional changes and modifications. We are looking at this to provide sufficient options that will still carry out the injunction of the Constitution to be equitable in language, but at the same time addressing the realities that we face.

As far as Mr Gore is concerned, ie on the issue of Microsoft, we are very grateful to Mr Bill Gates for making this donation. We are absolutely appreciative. However, as we plan to create an advanced institute for ICTs in the country, we need to create a platform over and above what the universities and technikons provide, so that we have an institute like Caltek and many other institutes in different countries that specialise in expertise, research and development which is above that which is normally seen in university teaching and research.

So for this reason we will need to develop open-source software, because we have to develop our industries through the Internet or through the open- source networks. No country can do this through proprietary technology because it has licence conditions that limit what one can do. It was in this spirit that the National Advisory Council on Innovation proposed that Cabinet adopt an approach that includes open-source software as a strategic issue in our research and development strategy.

On the whole I want to say that the debate has been very encouraging. We are very grateful that hon members see the inadequacy of the funding. To be funded at 0,7% of GDP when we have this huge inheritance of excellent R&D infrastructure and personnel in the country, is to devalue that inheritance. So Cabinet understands this and I am quite certain that we will be increasing the budget that goes to research and development, to science and technology and to the cultural industries of our country.

I wish to thank my colleagues very much and invite them to join us for lunch at the Marks Building. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

                  PROBATION SERVICES AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Mr Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity to address the National Assembly on the occasion of the second reading debate on the Probation Services Amendment Bill.

The Bill is another significant milestone of the Government and indeed this nation’s effort to transform and further strengthen the country’s criminal justice system. This is underpinned by our request and our quest to protect our society from all forms of criminality, while at the same time upholding the rights of children as enshrined in the Constitution. In this regard the introduction of this amendment to the Probation Services Act, No 116 of 1991, will go a long way in ensuring the achievements of that objective and the fostering of an integrated justice system.

The objectives of these amendments are the following: Inserting the definition relevant to the child and youth care system; inserting the definition of a family finder; introducing assessment, support, referral and mediation services in respect of victims of crime; introducing crime prevention strategies through the provision of early intervention programmes, including diversion services and family group conference; and providing for the establishment of restorative justice programmes and services as part of appropriate sentencing and diversion options.

Further, the objectives are to provide for the reception, assessment and referral of an accused person and the rendering of early intervention services and programmes; the investigation of the circumstances of an accused person and the provision of a pre-trial report on the desirability or otherwise of prosecution, and the investigation of the circumstances of convicted persons; providing for the duties of assistant probation officers; and lastly, providing for the mandatory assessment of every arrested child within 48 hours of his/her arrest.

Our Constitution requires that every arrested person must be brought before court within 48 hours of being arrested. It provides that a child can only be detained as a measure of last resort. This provision echoes article 40 of the UN convention on the Rights of Children, which South Africa has ratified.

In line with our Constitution, the department’s 10-point programme and plan prioritises addressing the problem of children who are in conflict with the law. The problem of children who are in conflict with the law is a serious challenge which is facing the country at this moment. It requires urgent attention and involvement of all sectors of our society, including the Free State. There are currently about 2 322 children under the age of 18 awaiting trial in prisons, and 1 767 of these children are awaiting trial in social development facilities, ie secure places of safety and care. The introduction of this Bill seeks to provide a legislative framework that will strengthen Government’s initiative relating to probation services that are already undertaken through pilot projects, in order to improve services and service delivery.

My department, with the assistance of donor funding, has studied establishment, assessment and referral centres for children in conflict with the law, as well as the one-stop justice centre in Port Elizabeth. This centre was established in partnership with the Departments of Correctional Services, Safety and Security, and Justice and Constitutional Development. Furthermore, other pilots were introduced through the appointment of assistant probation officers in the Western Cape, Limpopo and Mpumalanga.

At present we have only 60 assistant probation officers in the country and there are plans to appoint more. These assistant probation officers are involved in monitoring persons placed under house arrest and assessed by probation officers. Between September 1998 and February 2002, 379 children were placed under the care of their parents and under the supervision of probation officers. The progress of these children was monitored by assistant probation officers.

The appointment of these assistant probration officers will go a long way in providing a quality service to children in conflict with the law. The placement of children under the care of their parents and under the supervision of officers has cost benefits for the state. On the one hand it costs on average of R94,60 per day for a child awaiting trial in prison, while on the other hand when under house arrest it costs only R2,69 per day.

The added benefit of this programme is that children awaiting trial under the care of their parents and under the supervision of probation officers are provided with a family environment which will enhance the wellbeing of those children. It should be noted that out of those 379 children, 188 had their cases eventually withdrawn in court. This means that 188 children could have been in prison awaiting trail for a year or longer and could have had their lives totally disrupted and their schooling interrupted only to have the charges ultimately withdrawn.

My department has plans to replicate this programme throughout the country, especially in rural areas where these services are inadequate.

The decision to place a child under family care must obviously be carefully weighed against the concerns of safety and security of the community, and the process of assessment is essential in this regard.

This process will require that we work in partnership with families, law enforcement agencies, courts and indeed society as a whole. The passing of the Probation Services Amendment Bill will pave the way for the Child Justice Bill, which was approved by Cabinet in November last year and is due to be introduced in Parliament in the very near future.

The Probation Services Amendment Bill will provide legal certainty to innovative practices and practitioners who have been doing their best to provide a progressive and effective service. It will help to ensure equality of service provision so that all children in South Africa, as well as adults requiring assistance, may be provided with services of high quality. We must work together to ensure that South Africa’s children come first. [Applause.]

Mr J SELFE: Chairperson, I would like at the outset to apologise for the fact that my colleague the hon Sandy Kalyan is unable to be here today. She asked me to speak on her behalf and it is indeed a privilege to participate in this debate on such an important topic.

Everybody who lives in South Africa is aware of the abnormally high levels of criminality in our society. Many criminals, particularly here in the Western Cape, become involved in gangs and crime at a very early age, sometimes as early as 10 years of age. By their late teens thse people are hardened criminals, like Renaldo Miller, who, at the age of 17, raped and murdered six-year-old Samantha Isaacs in Lavender Hill.

This sort of thing happens every single day in all our communities across South Africa. The Minister has referred to this as a serious problem. It is not only a serious problem; it is a tragic problem that really undermines the whole social fabric of our society.

Renaldo Miller has appropriately been sentenced to two terms of life imprisonment. The question is whether, in different circumstances and with early intervention, the tragic murder of Samantha Isaacs could have been avoided.

The Constitution and other legislation guarantee the rights of children, and one of these rights is only to be imprisoned or detained as a measure of last resort. One of the major reasons for this is to prevent the contamination of first-time offenders by other, more hardened, criminals. As the Minister has said, many of these first-time offenders have their cases withdrawn in any event.

This is one of the things that this Bill seeks to achieve: early intervention and assessment of juvenile criminals with a view to breaking the cycle of criminality. For these reasons, we welcome the amendments. However, we have some misgivings about the practicality of giving effect in particular to the provisions of the new section 4B.

The department of social services assured the committee that at least 80 assistant probation officers will shortly be appointed countrywide, and that where there are no probation officers, social workers can assess children. The reality is - and I think we all need to accept it - that 80 assistant probation officers for the entire country is probably too few.

We are worried that staff shortages will mean that assessments will take longer than 48 hours, and that will mean that either a child is released without an assessment, or the child will be detained for a longer period, exposing them to precisely the criminal gang elements this Bill seeks to avoid.

We, therefore, support the amendment, but would like to see the appointment of probation officers as quickly as possible, and hopefully the appointment of more of them. We would also like to see a firm commitment to the 48 hour rule, so as to ensure that children who do not constitute a danger to society are kept out of the criminal justice system. [Applause.]

Dr O S B BALOYI: Mr Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, today we are debating amendments to the Probation Services Act, No 116 of 1991, the objects of which are to provide interim measures to facilitate the transformation of the child and youth care system and the proposed Child Justice Bill.

This Bill introduces crime prevention strategies through the provision of early intervention programmes like family group conferencing. It also provides for the establishment of programmes aimed at the prevention and combating of crime, and rendering assistance to the treatment of certain persons involved in crime.

The powers and duties of probation officers are extended in this Bill. A probation advisory committee is also established to advise the Minister on matters regarding the probation services.

The Bill makes provision for the creation of assistant probation officers in the respective provinces whose duties will include the monitoring of persons placed under house arrest, family finding and assisting a probation officer in their duty.

Another useful amendment in this Bill is the provision of mandatory assessment of every arrested child within 48 hours of his or her arrest. The challenge, however, is whether the department will have the capacity to carry out these assessments within the 48 hours. Indeed, during the committee stage of the Bill opinions were offered that maybe this provision should be omitted until such time as the question of enough resources has been addressed by the department.

It is our opinion that there are enough social workers out there who may act as probation officers, if only they can change what they are doing currently. We are mindful that the provision will force the Department of Social Development to appoint more probation officers to address the issue. We call on the department to do exactly that.

The department could interface with tertiary institutions in order to collectively find ways of increasing the numbers of qualified social workers in the service. Alternatively, we call on a paradigm shift whereby there will be a reduction in the numbers of social workers doing case work, which is not proactive and instead increases promotive and preventive services.

There has been adequate consultation and interface with relevant role- players and we are satisfied with that. The IFP supports the Probation Services Amendment Bill and trusts that these amendments will facilitate - in the interim, while waiting for the Child Justice Bill - the transformation of the child and youth care system. [Applause.]

Mr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD: Chairperson, on 18 April the Deputy President launched the Moral Regeneration Movement in an effort to stop the moral decay in the country. The New NP believes that a major part of this decay can be contributed to the breakdown in the family system, partly because parents simply fail to fulfil their parental duties and because the influence of the day is conducive to the creation of a generation of youth who are of the opinion that it is acceptable to commit certain levels of crime in order to survive.

This country has a responsibility to protect its children against the dark future of crime and the resultant imprisonment which could be the start of a vicious cycle which some people never escape from and could ultimately end in death. I believe that we all agree that the transformation of the child and youth care system is long overdue. Although the Bill before us today only seeks to act as an interim measure to facilitate this transformation process, any steps to address the problem of child and youth care should be welcomed.

We believe that the 48-hour mandatory restriction for assessment of every arrested child should go a long way in speeding up the process of either getting the child back with his family or setting the assessment and referral process in operation. The Bill makes provision for the speedy investigation of the circumstances of the accused and the provision of a pretrial report. The identifying of a family finder, whose main function would be to trace the parents or guardian of the child who is being prosecuted, is strengthening the whole process.

In die finale opsomming verwelkom die Nuwe NP die instelling van ‘n advieskomitee oor proefdienste wat die Minister kan adviseer oor proefdienste in die land. Hierdie liggaam sal hopelik daartoe bydra dat die proses voortdurend aangepas sal word by die jongste behoeftes wat mag ontstaan sodat daar op die bes moontlike wyse met kinders gehandel kan word. As gevolg van hierdie paar punte wat ek uitgelig het, het die Nuwe NP geen beswaar om hierdie wetsontwerp te steun nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[In the final analysis, the New NP welcomes the establishment of an advisory committee on probationary periods, which can advise the Minister about times of probation in the country. Hopefully this body will contribute to the continual adjustment of the process according to the latest needs that may arise in order to deal with youths in the best possible manner. Because of these few points that I have highlighted, the new NP has no objection to supporting this Bill.]

Prof L M MBADI: Chairperson, Aa, Rhecizulu! The UDM supports the Probation Services Amendment Bill. As South Africa is faced with a sharp increase in crime, it has become necessary to review the current probation practices in order to reduce recommitting of an offence and the high prison population. The number of children incarcerated and institutionalised can only drop if effective programmes are put in place to prevent crime. The country has few probation officers to render services with regard to crime prevention, divergent programmes, family group conferencing and effective supervision services.

To overcome the crisis of the shortage of probation officers, an occupational class called assistant probation officers was created. In order to include this occupational class, assistant probation officer'', in the existing Probation Services Act, clause 1(1),authorised assistant officer’’ has been added to the definition of ``authorised probation officer’’. A probation officer is a person who complies with the prescribed requirements and who has been appointed under clause 2, and includes an assistant probation officer.

The assistant probation officer is appointed under clause 2 and works under the supervision of a probation officer. In order to accommodate the assistant probation officers in the amendments, section 4 (2) (a) and (b) of Act 116 of 1991 have been left intact. Their duties are spelt out as follows: The monitoring of persons placed in house arrest; family finding and assisting a probation officer with his or her duties.

In terms of insertion 4b, the probation officer has to carry out a mandatory assessment of arrested children alleged to have committed an offence as soon as possible, but not later than 48 hours after his or her arrest.

The UDM appreciates the timeframes set and hopes that this will be met even in areas where the road infrastructure militates against accessibility. All this is done in the interest of the child. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Chairperson, the state that our prisons are in today simply cannot provide an environment in which to rehabilitate young offenders. The Bill provides a few improvements which I will now highlight. It focuses on crime prevention with the emphasis on early intervention strategies. This is very important. The nature of these programmes is built upon the restorative justice approach, with an emphasis on diversion away from the formal criminal justice system. However, public safety must be considered when diversion is applied.

The ACDP has always advocated victim-offender mediation and the restorative justice approach. The Bill supports this approach in providing powers and duties to the probation officer that are referenced against the assessment and appropriate support needs of the arrested child.

The ACDP is especially pleased, in terms of the definition of ``assessment’’ in the Bill, that it takes into account the impact of the offence on the victim.

We therefore support the Bill where it aims to assist young offenders through intervention programmes to adjust their behaviour according to programmes that will guide them to live more responsible lives. Mr E SALOOJEE: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, the amending Bill before the House today seeks to improve the legal framework within which to expand our existing system of probation services. The hon the Minister has already pointed out a number of significant elements of this Bill. Because of the size of the Bill, it may seem to some members that it is an insignificant piece of legislation, but, in fact, it forms an important step in the transformation of the child and youth justice system. Although we want to make this debate a short one, that should not suggest in any way that this Bill is not of great importance.

The amendments to the Probation Services Act of 1991 provide for the appointment of assistant probation officers and for the introduction of measures aimed at fighting crime through early intervention in the area of child justice. To this effect, it defines certain concepts that are integral to the system, like, as has been mentioned, family finding, family conferencing and, of course, diversion programmes. I do not want to mention all the other things that have already been referred to.

We know that some of these practices and services are already in operation in some areas, but we must acknowledge that they are essentially part of a new paradigm in the way Government and ultimately society deals with young persons in trouble with the law.

The amendments form part of a historic and fundamental shift towards restorative justice, which is an approach to crime prevention and management that is aimed at holding offenders directly accountable to the people they have violated and at restoring the losses and harm suffered by the victims.

It is internationally accepted that the framework of restorative justice provides an opportunity for the offender, through a process that could involve victims, families and members of the community, to be reintegrated into the community. This is critical in view of research findings internationally that have suggested that the earlier an intervention of the restorative kind takes place, the greater the chance that the young offender will not become a hardened criminal.

Elements in the Bill that speak specifically to the idea of restorative justice are those practices that will enable both officials in the Department of Social Development and officials in the criminal justice system to make decisions about whether a child offender should be dealt with through the formal court system or whether the child and his or her community stand to benefit more if the child is diverted from the court system and ultimately prison.

The Bill empowers the Minister to establish further services and programmes aimed at early intervention and diversion for children in respect of whom an assessment has indicated that they are suitable candidates for such a programme.

It also gives the Minister the discretion to establish a probation advisory committee to advise him on issues around the services. Our committee hopes that the hon Minister will set up such a committee, and that through this committee courts could be sensitised to the needs and rights of children in the court system.

A very important aspect of the Bill that elicited lengthy discussions in the portfolio committee is the insertion of 4B, which states that:

Every child who is alleged to have committed an offence shall as soon as possible, but not later than 48 hours after his or her arrest, be assessed by a probation officer.]

The aim of this procedure is that a probation officer will do an assessment of every detained child to establish whether the child should be diverted out of the formal court system and, therefore, forms a crucial link in the effectiveness of the diversion programme. This is where we had this long discussion.

From all the evidence that I have secured, and some very recently, a significant number of additional probation officers has been appointed. In fact, this whole concept of assistant probation officers would assist. We must be mindful of the fact that there are literally thousands of registered social workers who could also be deployed into this aspect of the work until such time as we are able to ensure that there are sufficient probation officers to deal with this problem effectively.

We must point out that this section is consistent with the constitutional provision that every detained person must appear in court within 48 hours after his or her arrest, provided that the expiry of the 48 hours coincides with a normal court day. Therefore, this is an important step towards ensuring that we realise those rights enshrined in our Constitution.

However, members expressed real concern that in view of resource constraints, the Department of Social Development might not be in a position to ensure that this procedure takes place within the timeframe mentioned. We are, in fact, currently faced with a situation that hundreds of children remain in prison precisely because of a lack of capacity and resources on the side of Social Development.

With regard to social services, there is a lot to be attended to by a probation officer. But this is precisely the point that we make, that there has been a dramatic improvement, as I pointed out previously, and that we could deal with these problems substantially and within the very near future be able to provide a complete and adequate service.

We are also faced with the reality that there is a huge disparity between the availability of probation officers in urban centres and rural areas. These questions have been part of the history of this amending Bill, which was already under discussion and review in 1990, and is being dealt with by the department. There is sufficient evidence in documents. We do not have the time to go into that, but from what I have read I am absolutely convinced that we are rapidly building capacity.

Despite current shortcomings in allocation, we must establish the principle in law that constitutional imperatives place an obligation on Government to make services and resources available that will see, at least, the phased realisation of constitutional rights. We have been given a clear understanding that the department has developed the system of probation officers to such an extent that the services set out in this Bill are now feasible.

From the side of the committee we want to signal that we will be monitoring the implementation of this Bill very carefully to ensure that where gaps continue to exist, the Government is urged to make sufficient resources available so that those gaps can be filled. And here I say this should not just be the responsibility of members of Parliament who are members of the Social Development committee. I think it should be the responsibility of all parliamentarians when they do their constituency work.

Finally, I want to return to the historic significance of this Bill. Not only will it serve to strengthen the functioning of the probation service system, but it forms part of a broader review of a whole range of legislative measures, including the child care legislation aimed at providing for and protecting the best interests of the child. The real historic development is that for the first time in the history of our country, we will soon be tabling a Bill in this Assembly which will be a comprehensive child care Act. Such an Act has never been part of our system.

All these reforms that are being effected in legislation affecting children suggest, in a very substantial way, the utter and complete dedication of this Government to ensuring that the children of our country find their proper place under the sun, and are able to live healthy, developing lives. That will be the contribution in the future towards a good, functioning and healthy South African society.

The principles set out in this Bill are consistent. I will not go through all of them. We want to believe that it will contribute to the development of not only young people, but also to the overall development of our communities, and enable them to take full responsibility for their actions and carry this responsibility by playing a constructive rather than a destructive role in community life. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Mr Chairperson, I would like to take this opportunity to thank all members and all parties for supporting this Bill and the amendment.

I also share the concerns that have been voiced, specifically around section 4B, on the possibility that we might not necessarily have the capacity to fulfil this. We are in a position where we are under pressure to change it, but I fear that if we do so and remove that 48-hour stipulation, we might run into problems in that it might not happen in the manner that we would want it to. As long as that is there, I think it will, one way or the other, force the department and the justice system in this country to do something about those children.

But that will need, necessarily, the support of almost everybody here, the monitoring of children under detention and the working together, both of Government and the whole of civil society, including the religious sector, to ensure that what is in the Constitution becomes a reality not only for the elderly, but more importantly, for the children, and that we put children first.

Once again, I would like to thank the House. [Applause.]

Debate concluded. Bill read a second time.

The House adjourned at 12:18. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                         FRIDAY, 24 MAY 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    Ms N N Mapisa-Nqakula has, in terms of section 93(1)(a) of the
     Constitution, been appointed as Deputy Minister of Home Affairs by
     the President of the Republic with effect from 7 May 2002.


 (2)    Mr C Nqakula has, in terms of section 91(2) of the Constitution,
     been appointed as Minister of Safety and Security by the President
     of the Republic with effect from 7 May 2002.
 (3)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister for the Public
     Service and Administration in the National Assembly on 24 May 2002
     and referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     State Information Technology Agency Amendment Bill [B 24 -
          2002] (National Assembly - sec 75) [explanatory summary of
          Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
          Government Gazette No 23337 of 26 April 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public
     Service and Administration of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
     working days.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

The following members have been appointed to serve on the Committee
 mentioned, viz:


 African National Congress:


 Chikane, M M
 Coetzee-Kasper, M P
 Dlamini, B O
 Lobe, M C
 Mahlawe, N
 Mnandi, P N
 Mutsila, I
 Nair, B
 Nel, A C
 Ngwenya-Kompe, M L
 Nhleko, N P
 Njobe, M A A
 Ntuli, S B
 Zitha, L


 Democratic Party:


 Semple, J A
 Sono, B N


 Inkatha Freedom Party:


 Ngubane, H
 Roopnarain, U (Alt)


 New National Party:


 Camerer, S M


 United Democratic Movement:


 Mndende, O N


 African Christian Democratic Party:


 Southgate, R M


 Freedom Front:


 Groenewald, P J


 United Christian Democratic Party:


 Seeco, M A


 Federal Alliance:


 Blanché, J P I


 Minority Front:


 Rajbally, S


 Afrikaner Eenheidsbeweging:


 Aucamp, C


 AZAPO:


 Nefolovhodwe, P J