WEDNESDAY, 18 SEPTEMBER 2002 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 15:04.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

QUESTIONS AND REPLIES - see that book.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mrs Z A KOTA: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes the statement by the Minister of Social Development, the hon Zola Skweyiya, that the National Lottery Fund has so far benefited only gamblers and has not reached poverty alleviation projects;

(2) believes that the principal beneficiaries of funds generated by the national lottery system should be civil society organisations involved in meaningful projects that seek to fight poverty; and

(3) calls on the National Lottery Fund Board to review its allocation criteria and to ensure that it targets civil society organisations that are working on programmes which address the plight of the poor.

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move:

That the House -

 (1)    notes that -
   (a)  the DA opposes presidential pardons  which  amount  to  backdoor
       amnesties and condemned the pardon of Mr Dumisani Ncamazana;


   (b)  the DA described the arrest and subsequent release of  Ncamazana
       concerning the Whitaker murder as a total botch-up;


   (c)  the Ministry of Justice and Constitutional Development  demanded
       an apology from Mr Tony Leon on behalf of Mr Ncamazana; and


   (d)  Mr Ncamazana has now been re-arrested on two charges of  murder;
       and


(2)      therefore  demands  that  the   Minister   for   Justice   and
       Constitutional  Development   apologise   to   Mr   Tony   Leon.
       [Applause.]

Mr T E VEZI: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes that according to the Medical Research Council (MRC) in KwaZulu- Natal, there is a high incidence of substance abuse among pupils at rural secondary schools in the province;

(2) further notes that according to the MRC, drug abuse in South Africa is on the increase; and

(3) urges the relevant authorities and various role-players to work together in setting up the structures needed to wipe out drug abuse, especially in schools.

Ms M A MOLEBATSI: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House - (1) notes that -

   (a)  top  officials  of  approximately  80  countries,  including  10
       African heads  of  state,  the  Canadian  Prime  Minister,  Jean
       Chretien, and United States Secretary of State, Mr Colin Powell,
       met in an all-day special session of the United Nations  General
       Assembly on 16 September 2002 to discuss the New Partnership for
       Africa's Development; and


   (b)  in his address to this special  session  President  Thabo  Mbeki
       said: ``The African Union hopes that  the  United  Nations  will
       support the peoples of Africa as we engage in  the  struggle  to
       eradicate poverty and underdevelopment in our continent'';

(2) further notes that the international community has reaffirmed its support for Nepad in this special session; and

(3) commends President Thabo Mbeki and other African heads of state for mobilising the international community to continue to support Nepad.

Mnr J W LE ROUX: Mev die Speaker, hiermee gee ek kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag van die Huis sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis -

(1) daarvan kennis neem dat -

   (a)  dr Rocco Knobel,  voormalige  hoofdirekteur  van  die  Nasionale
       Parkeraad, Sondag oorlede is, en dat hy hierdie pos  vir  bykans
       drie dekades beklee het;


   (b)  dr Knobel een van die pionierbewaarders van ons erfenis was,  en
       dat  onder  sy   bekwame   leierskap   talle   nasionale   parke
       geproklameer is,  onder  andere  die  wêreldbekende  Tsitsikamma
       Mariene Park; en
   (c)  die besondere voorbeeld van bewaring en toewyding wat hy  gestel
       het, sal voortleef in die  bestuur  van  die  huidige  nasionale
       parke; en

(2) simpatiseer met sy naasbestaandes en vriende. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr J W LE ROUX: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  Dr Rocco Knobel, former Chief Director  of  the  National  Parks
       Board, passed away on Sunday; and that he filled  this  position
       for nearly three decades;


   (b)  Dr Knobel was one of  the  pioneering  conservationists  of  our
       heritage and that under his able leadership many national  parks
       were proclaimed, inter alia, the world-famous Tsitsikamma Marine
       Park; and


   (c)  the exceptional example of conservation and dedication which  he
       set, will live on in the  management  of  the  current  national
       parks; and

(2) sympathises with his next of kin and friends.]

Mr M N RAMODIKE: Madam Speaker, at the next sitting of the House I will move on behalf of the UDM:

That the House -

(1) notes with dismay that the settlement between Cape PLC and South African victims of asbestosis has not been honoured, and that Cape PLC has reneged on the payout of damages even after receiving an extension of the deadline;

(2) further notes that the case will in all likelihood return to the UK courts, which may result in many more months passing before the victims receive compensation;

(3) condemns the fact that the continued delays on the part of this company are leading to unnecessary suffering and death for the victims of asbestosis; and

(4) calls upon the Government to do whatever is within its ability to ensure that Cape PLC complies with the original settlement in order to avoid another lengthy round of legal proceedings.

Ms H M MPAKA: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  ceasefire talks between the Burundi government and the  National
       Liberation Forces will resume on Thursday,  19  September  2002;
       and


   (b)  Deputy President Jacob Zuma  will  chair  and  facilitate  these
       talks;

(2) believes that Africa’s development and prosperity depend on building peace, security and stability on the continent;

(3) commends the South African Government for its determination and for consistently working towards the realisation of peace on the African continent; and

(4) wishes delegates to the peace talks every success in their deliberations on Thursday.

[Applause.]

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the House I will move on behalf of the ACDP:

That the House -

(1) notes with concern that a deadly detonator exploded at Levana Primary School when a young boy, who took it from his teacher’s desk, dropped it in front of his classroom;

(2) further notes that after searching the school, another schoolboy was found with 11 other detonators on him;

(3) commends Superintendent Govender and her staff from Steenberg police station for their dedication to the school, and for keeping their promise to be there for both the Levana and Hillwood Primary Schools, especially during the morning and in the afternoon when the learners are dismissed from school;

(4) also commends the teachers and staff in these violence-ridden areas for going out daily amidst the gangster violence and negotiating the danger, and putting the learners’ education above their own safety; and

(5) calls on the Government to ensure that the decision they made to make all schools weapon-free zones is carried out under the strictest conditions possible, and to put in place extra measures to protect the teachers and children from the violence that has ravaged their communities in the past.

Dr M S MOGOBA: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move as follows at the next sitting of the House:

That the House -

(1) notes that, despite our advances in democracy, the shocking and unprecedented level of violent crime is a cause of real concern, particularly with regard to the most vulnerable people - children, women and the aged;

(2) notes that when the PAC called for firm and harsh measures, there was scorn and ridicule in some quarters, particularly from those who had not experienced crime at first hand;

(3) further notes that law-enforcement officials are being attacked and killed daily, thereby showing that no one in the community can really feel secure and that the boldness and arrogance of the criminals are highly provocative and frightening;

(4) observes that long sentences in our comfortable prisons do not seem to be a deterrent, particularly as prisoners remain a burden on society, including those who have been brutalised; and

(5) therefore calls for a radical review of our judicial and penal system, including the holding of a referendum to increase physical punishment and pain.

Mr B W KANNEMEYER: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes -

   (a)  the current financial crisis in the City of Cape Town after less
       than two years under DA rule; and


   (b)  the plundering of  the  city's  reserves  from  a  healthy  R1,5
       billion under the ANC in 2000 to a mere R123 million in the bank
       today under the DP;

(2) also notes that the DA council’s approach to solving this dilemma is to punish the poorest of the poor by -

   (a)  closing facilities;
   (b)  retrenching staff;
   (c)  decreasing service levels; and
   (d)  reducing provision for the indigent;

(3) further notes -

   (a)  the exorbitant performance bonuses paid to the executives of the
       city; and


   (b)  the DA's much vaunted commitment to sound financial  management,
       clean and transparent governance and working for all the people;
       and

(4) calls on the DA to hold transparent and open public investigations into allegations of financial mismanagement and maladministration in the unicity of Cape Town.

[Applause.]

Mr T D LEE: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  the Mpumalanga under 19 boys' hockey team,  selected  on  merit,
       consisted of only black players;


   (b)  the provincial government insisted that the team  be  made  more
       racially representative by  replacing  some  team  members  with
       white players; and


   (c)  the Hockey Association Chairman, Richard Prinsloo, has  resigned
       in protest at this political interference; and

(2) believes that -

   (a)  this interference in team selection  is  proof  that  the  ANC's
       obsession with racial quotas overrides  its  commitment  to  the
       principle of merit in sport; and


   (b)   the  ANC   is   perpetuating   racial   consciousness   amongst
       schoolchildren instead  of  promoting  excellence  by  replacing
       meritorious black players with white players who are  tokens  in
       the quota madness.

[Applause.]

Mrs L R MBUYAZI: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the House -

(1) notes that -

   (a)  Monday, 16 September, was World Ozone Day;


   (b)  the world recognises the importance of keeping the issue of  the
       ozone sharply in focus because of its importance to  the  health
       of the planet; and


   (c)  we too need to provide leadership in order that all citizens are
       warned of the danger of cancer from  frequent  exposure  to  the
       sun; and

(2) calls on all South Africans to treat environmental matters with the seriousness they deserve.

Mr M RAMGOBIN: Madam Speaker, I shall move on behalf of the ANC:

That the House -

(1) notes that on 16 September 2002 Lebanon marked the 20th anniversary of the massacre by Israeli forces of Palestinian refugees in Sabra and Shatila in the then Israeli-occupied Beirut;

(2) believes that the killing of innocent civilians, including unarmed women and children, is a gross violation of human rights and a serious crime against humanity; (3) condemns the continued military occupation of Palestinian territory and the terrorist actions by the Israeli forces against the people of Palestine; and

(4) calls on the peoples of the world to work towards a peaceful resolution of the Middle East crisis.

Mr J DURAND: Madam Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the New NP:

That the House -

(1) welcomes the SABC’s fierce fight against the Minister of Communications in order to protect its independence;

(2) reminds the Minister of the role and impact of the media as an invaluable source of information in our society, the media being the medium through which society voices its opinions and concerns;

(3) agrees that it is essential for any democracy that the media upholds the values of freedom of expression, media independence, democracy and human rights; and

(4) calls on the Minister to uphold these values and not to become Attila the Hun, taking us back to the Dark Ages of state broadcasters.

Mr S ABRAM: Madam Speaker, I give notice that I shall move:

That the House -

(1) welcomes the expressed willingness of Iraq to readmit UN weapons inspectors into the country in the interests of world peace;

(2) calls upon Iraq to play open cards and to co-operate fully with UN weapons inspectors;

(3) calls upon the US and its allies to accept the findings of a UN- supervised inspection;

(4) condemns in the strongest terms statements expressing scepticism by the US and its allies on the move by Iraq;

(5) trusts that such statements are not a smokescreen to eventually attack the territorial integrity of Iraq and remove its president; and

(6) calls upon all countries in the Middle East, including Israel, to respect and implement the UN resolutions.

[Applause.]

                      SUSPENSION OF RULE 253(1)

                         (Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, I move the draft resolution printed in his name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That Rule 253(1) be suspended for the purposes of conducting the Second Reading debate on the Education Laws Amendment Bill [B 31B - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 76).

Agreed to.

                      DISASTER MANAGEMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Madam Speaker and hon members, the United Nations estimates that a severe disaster can cost a developed country up to 1,5% of its GDP, but it can cost a developing country up to 16% of its GDP.

Moenie slaap nie, asseblief. [Please do not sleep.]

For a developing country, such as South Africa, it is a priority to minimise the impact and cost of disasters so that resources can be used for pressing ongoing development needs. The impact and cost of a disaster is mitigated by the state of preparedness of the country concerned.

The United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees’ Handbook for Emergencies states that sustainable development is society’s investment in the future, that investment will be squandered if it is not protected adequately against the risk of disaster and it goes on to say that disasters are first and foremost a major threat to development and, specifically, to the development of the poorest and most marginalised people in the world. Disasters seek out the poor and ensure they stay poor.

Poor people usually have little choice as to where they reside. They often live in dangerous or marginalised areas of our society. They are unable to afford structures, for instance well-constructed houses, that would protect them from disasters such as floods. As a result, they are often completely devastated when disaster hits, often without insurance, savings or other possessions to replace the possessions they have lost.

The poorest people in a society, and particularly in South Africa with its history of active marginalisation, are the most economomically vulnerable. They are often placed on the periphery of productive economic activity. This means that those who can least afford it are the most affected.

In one of the most recent examples of a natural disaster in South Africa, floods, extremely cold weather and deep snow repeatedly hit the Eastern Cape and parts of KwaZulu-Natal in a very short space of time. Infrastructure such as roads, storm water systems, dams, bridges, electricity supply lines and properties were severely damaged. Livestock was lost and people died.

Disasters tend to erode hard-earned livelihoods and leave communities bereft of a means of subsistence. Government therefore has an obligation to protect communities from disasters. Effective disaster management is an integral part of sustainable development.

The Johannesburg Declaration on Sustainable Development, agreed to at the World Summit on Sustainable Development held recently, makes the observation that the global environment continues to suffer. It further states:

… loss of biodiversity continues, fish stocks continue to be depleted, desertification claims more and more fertile land, the adverse effects of climate change are already evident, natural disasters are more frequent and more devastating and developing countries more vulnerable, and air, water and marine pollution continue to rob millions of a decent life.

The resultant plan of implementation makes specific reference to the need in Africa to deal effectively with natural disasters and conflicts, including their environmental impact -

… through efforts and initiatives, at all levels, to: provide financial and technical assistance to strengthen … institutional and human capacity, including at the local level, for effective disaster management, including observation and early warning systems, assessments, prevention, preparedness, response and recovery; provide support … to better deal with the displacement of people as a result of natural disasters and conflicts, and put in place rapid response mechanisms.

As Government, we believe that disaster management is an integral part of the process of working for sustainable development. This necessitates a paradigm shift from a reactive role, focusing exclusively on relief and recovery, to a proactive disaster management system with the emphasis on prevention, risk reduction and preparedness. This is critical to protect the interests of all our people, in particular the poorest of the poor.

Increased preparedness will be assisted by the integration and co- ordination of different information management systems for the purposes of developing, more accurately, early warning systems. Another critical element of preparedness is the harnessing of the energies of local people in disaster management, both in terms of civic education and the organisation of communities to cope with disasters. This Bill provides for both.

Our people need to be taught about the dangers of disasters, such as veld fires and the risk of lighting fires in dry bushy areas. Civic education is critical to a preventive strategy. If people are more informed and aware of the dangers facing them, the risk of these dangers is lessened. Similarly, the more prepared a local community is to deal with a disaster, the better the community will cope with it when it finally strikes.

The Bill makes specific reference to the need for disaster management volunteers. It is critical that local organisational structures, such as ward committees and community-based organisations, take up the challenge of mobilising local resources - human and material - for use in disaster management and mitigation.

In conclusion, let me just say that although South Africa, as with any other country, is sometimes unable to predict or prevent disasters, we can, through disaster management legislation, be better prepared for disasters. This Bill provides for the development of an integrated and co-ordinated disaster management policy that focuses on preventing or reducing the risk of disasters, mitigating the severity of disasters, emergency preparedness, rapid and effective response to disasters and postdisaster recovery the establishment of national, provincial and municipal disaster management centres and disaster management volunteers.

I am convinced that the Bill before hon members meets these objectives. I am therefore pleased to introduce this Bill before this House for discussion. [Applause.]

Mrs G M BORMAN: Madam Speaker, hon Deputy Minister, hon members, it gives me great pleasure today to inform this House that the DA will be supporting this Bill. [Interjections.] The DA is committed to making a difference in this country, and we will support what we believe to be good legislation. In one sense, no legislation is more necessary than this because South Africa, under the ANC Government, has become an ongoing disaster. [Interjections.] With Aids spreading like wildfire whilst the Government conducts endless academic debates as to its origins; the quite diplomacy in Zimbabwe, whilst 6 million people are threatened with starvation; unemployment mounting and causing untold misery and hardship; poverty on the increase - over the weekend we all read about the children dying of malnutrition in the Eastern Cape because of inefficient administration; millions accumulating from the lottery and not getting through to the charities crying out for money; municipal mismanagement causing mounting deficits at local level; and, with a score of other bunglings and bumblings, we certainly have need of measures to manage some of the disasters we do not cause. [Interjections.]

But, in all seriousness, I want to warn this House. We can have the best legislation in the world, but words on paper mean nothing unless there is the capacity to deliver, the will to take action and the resources for the task. This Government has become notorious for being long on words and short on delivery. It must not happen in the field of disaster management. To quote an infamous South African a generation ago, ``the consequences would be too ghastly to contemplate”.

The Bill provides for an integrated, co-ordinated and uniform approach to disaster management by all three spheres of government. It focuses on disaster management as a continual and integrated multisectoral, multidisciplinary process of planning and implementation of measures. These aim to prevent and reduce the risk of disasters, mitigate the severity or consequences of disasters, ensure readiness to deal with impending disasters, and respond to disasters so as to restore normality.

The several natural disasters of the last few years - the floods, fires and tornadoes - have shown how it is always, as the Deputy Minister has pointed out, the poor people who are the most vulnerable. They are the ones that suffer the most. In the 2001 floods on the Cape Flats, 4 000 people sought temporary shelter in community centres. The Salvation Army and the Red Cross had to feed 5 000 people daily. The cost was nearly R30 000 a day. Where do municipalities find that sort of money in an emergency?

In Johannesburg they have a R40 million state-of-the-art call centre, but nobody knows what the emergency number is. Now what earthly good is that in an emergency? The people of South Africa need a short, simple emergency number such as 911. It must be the same throughout the country.

Firefighting equipment, ambulances, emergency telephone numbers, call centres - all need to be functional for this Bill to have effect. Building regulations must be enforced, and flood plain lines foreseen to pre-empt the effect of disasters. Communication and early warning systems will be vital for the management of disaster.

The Bill answers the questions: Who will classify disasters as local, provincial or national disasters, and how will they be funded? It also defines what the communication links will be in an emergency. It calls upon municipalities, provinces and the national Government to be proactive, again, as our Deputy Minister said, so that the risk of disasters can be reduced and prevented.

When floods hit the Northern Province, now Limpopo, in February 2000, the Sowetan carried the headline: ``Empty promises as flood victims suffer’’. It is a heartbreaking account of interviews conducted with victims in some of the hardest hit regions. They were told of money being made available and of the plans to build houses.

Maria Chauke, an unemployed mother of two, from Magomane village, in Malamulele, said, Some rogue officials arrived here shortly after the floods and said that our village was a disaster. They promised to repair our collapsed houses. That was the last time we saw them.'' Others spoke of havinglost hope’’. The article continues: ``The excellent plans the Government has for the victims of this natural disaster remain meaningless until the state machinery becomes more efficient’’.

The challenge for us in this House is not how good this Bill is on paper, but how efficiently it will be implemented on the ground. [Interjections.] I wish here, at this point, to thank the department for all their hard work, and also Dr Ailsa Holloway for her endless patience in assisting us with the processing of this Bill. [Interjections.] I also say thanks to Mr Olifant. [Applause.]

Mr B M SOLO: Madam Speaker, Deputy Minister Botha, hon members of the House, for the past four years or so we have constantly witnessed different kinds of disasters.

The consequences of disasters caused by floods, veld fires, heavy snowfalls, heavy rains and strong winds are increasing dramatically. This can be ascribed not so much to the severity of the events, but to the growing vulnerability of poor people to these events.

All these disasters carry with them misery and hardship. The recent disaster in the Eastern Cape is a case in point - first there were veld fires, followed by snow, heavy rains, storms and floods. These were natural disasters; they were not caused by the ANC Government or the ANC. We cannot stop them. But the Disaster Management Bill attempts to address such situations.

Parliament will recall that the original Bill was introduced around the beginning of 2001. The committee received a wide range of submissions from different sectors of our communities. Similarly, public hearings were attended by many role-players and organisations of civil society. They included the following: the Disaster Mitigation for Sustainable Livelihoods Project of the University of Cape Town; the Disaster Management Institute of SA; the SA Insurance Association; the National House of Traditional Leaders; Technikon SA; the Amalgamated Services for Concerned Residents Association; Agri SA; and Groundwork.

Towards the end of 2001, the Bill was withdrawn in order for the Department of Provincial and Local Government to comply with section 9 of the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act so that the FFC could make an assessment of the financial implications of the Bill. Thereafter, it was reintroduced in the first half of this year.

The committee debated extensively on the provisions of the Bill, and seriously noted the inputs made by all those who made presentations during public hearings. Most of their views have been taken into consideration.

The Disaster Management Bill is quite an advanced Bill as it has taken into consideration what exists throughout the world. Most of the committee deliberations took place while disasters were occurring here in Cape Town and throughout the world. These events helped as the committee was exposed to reality, and, as such, we had to craft the Bill in such a way that it would help significantly to improve our strategies on how to deal with vulnerability, risk and response. If one looks at chapter 1, clause 1, one will clearly see how the Bill would help communities in terms of its definition of ``disaster management’’. The Bill aims to provide mechanisms to prevent or reduce the risks of disasters. It is aimed at enabling our communities to mitigate the severity or consequences of disasters. The Bill promotes emergency preparedness, rapid and effective response to disasters, and speedy postdisaster recovery and rehabilitation.

As such, the Bill provides a paradigm shift in understanding and dealing with disasters. The new approach is not only modelled for the postdisaster recovery phase, but also focuses on predisaster risk reduction, training and awareness. It seeks to reduce the probability and severity of disaster occurrences through developmental action and planning. As such, the Bill incorporates Vuk’uzenzele and Masakhane as it emphasises indigenous knowledge and community participation.

To this end, President Mbeki has stated that, ... this year, the Government will work further to strengthen its links with the masses of our people''. He goes further:In pushing back the frontiers of poverty, we shall do this in partnership with many in our society who are ready to lend a hand in the national effort to build a better life.’’

The Disaster Management Bill puts a lot of emphasis on the following: co- ordinating preparedness and building a rapid and spontaneous response capability, and capacity-building, not only of Government but also of the private sector, nongovernmental institutions, civil society and communities.

The Bill provides a strategy to reduce risk and the vulnerability of communities, especially poor and previously disadvantaged communities, and this includes a framework for community participation and an awareness programme. This framework also provides for the incorporation of indigenous knowledge and the prominent role of traditional leaders.

We would be undermining the debate and the Bill if we did not observe the trends in our country. In and around 27 to 30 July …

… kulo nyaka kube khona izinhlekelele eziningi lapha eWestern Cape. Sizibonile izimvula ezinkulu, siyibonile nenkanyamba, ziqhubeka laphaya endaweni okuthiwa iKhosovo, Sweet Homes, Phola Park nase-KTC. Lokhu kubangele inhlupheko kubantu abangange-2000. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[… this year there were many crises here in the Western Cape. We saw heavy rains, and we even experienced a tornado. These crises occurred in Kosovo, Sweet Homes, Phola Park and KTC. This has caused about 2 000 people to suffer.]

In or around 9 July of this year, at Jagersfontein and Ottoshoop, devastating grass and bush fires destroyed about 17 000 hectares of grassland, and three people died and six were injured. A further veld fire destroyed many hectares of grassland. In the North West province a train travelling from Warrenton to Naledi derailed and crashed, causing veld fires that destroyed 4 500 hectares of grazing land and killing five sheep and seven goats.

In Mpumalanga we experienced devastating veld fires in the Morgenzon, Amersfoort and Ermelo areas. A considerable amount of infrastructure damage was caused. Six people were killed and 568 were injured. In addition, 68 000 hectares of grazing land, 41 000 hectares of maize fields, 1 000 hectares of plantation and more than 100 informal houses were totally destroyed. We have seen these trends moving to Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, the Free State, the Eastern Cape in particular, and finally to Limpopo.

This is a debate that we need to take very seriously. We all have to contribute towards dealing with disasters. It therefore becomes imperative to note the significance and the wisdom of producing the Disaster Management Bill. The Bill seeks to address all the aforementioned scenarios.

Chapter 2 of the Bill makes provision for the creation and establishment of structures, such as the intergovernmental committee, which will deal with issues of disasters, and makes provision for the establishment of a disaster management framework including the establishment of a disaster management forum.

Chapter 3 deals with the establishment of a disaster management centre, which will facilitate, develop and co-ordinate issues around disaster management. Chapters 4 and 5 provide for a provincial and municipal disaster management framework, and the establishment of disaster management centres, with power given to provinces and municipalities to declare provincial and local disasters.

Chapter 6 deals with funding, rehabilitation and guidelines, while Chapter 7 deals with the whole question of volunteers. The significant part of this chapter is clause 58(6)(b), which reads thus:

This section does not preclude any number of persons from taking reasonable steps to deal with a disaster in an appropriate manner until a municipality takes responsibility for that disaster, and, where appropriate, to continue dealing with the disaster under the control of the municipality.

It is therefore imperative in this day and age that the Disaster Management Bill becomes relevant. However, to ensure a sustainable future, the Bill must become more relevant as it begins to provide for a process of gradually pushing back the frontiers of poverty, and as it attempts to save our people from being swept away to their graves by floods that have been without precedent in recent history, according to President Thabo Mbeki.

The Bill attempts to ensure a better life and an escape from the devastating effects of disasters. Finally, it suggests various measures for risk reduction and disaster prevention and mitigation, and states that it is required that disaster management issues form an integral part of the IDP process in which communities have an important role to play.

In conclusion, let me acknowledge the following people who gave me their full support during the processing of this Bill. Firstly, the chairperson of the committee, Comrade Yunus Carrim for assigning me the responsibility of processing this Bill. This has been a very empowering process for me. When I started out I knew nothing about the topic of disaster management, now I feel very confident. Also, let me acknowledge my comrades in the study group who cannot be left out owing to the support and respect they displayed, save that they called me ``Mr Disaster’’.

Secondly, I extend special thanks to the members of the committee for their support, which has contributed to my ability to successfully chair committee meetings without confusing issues. Thirdly, I want to thank the department, especially Mr Louis Buys for always being there to provide the necessary support, for his willingness to help and for his efficient response to disasters that occurred throughout the country and in neighbouring states. I thank Dr Bouwer as well. His technical expertise and attitude of always being willing to go the extra mile make us feel proud.

The University of Cape Town’s Disaster Mitigation for Sustainable Livelihoods Project has been the most important partner during the processing of the Bill. We hope that the partnership we have built over this period will continue to benefit our vulnerable communities as this programme is a response to the President’s call to lend a helping hand. We hope the enthusiasm of and commitment by especially Dr Holloway and Ms Christine Nomdo will be an inspiration to other institutions of higher learning to lend a hand in the process of pushing back the frontiers of poverty. [Applause.]

Mr P F SMITH: Chairperson, it is always a pleasure to be involved in legislation which enjoys multiparty support. Let me say, first of all, that there is an urgent need for this legislation because, currently, disasters are dealt with in terms of a civil protection approach which, crudely speaking, is a reactive and response-driven approach. And, of course, this approach is also inadequate because it deals more with the symptoms than the causes of disasters. It is an approach centred on responding to a disaster, or an imminent disaster, rather than preventing it from occurring.

To use an analogy, it is an approach which looks at providing tents in the event of a flood, rather than ensuring that people are not victims of floods in the first place.

An HON MEMBER: How do you do that?

Mr P F SMITH: Well, read the Bill; you will find out.

We are living in an era of heightened susceptibility to disasters, whether man-made or otherwise. The issue is not simply one of an increased number of disasters in a neutral sense but, equally, is, a function of human interaction with the environment, which is often very problematic - in respect of floods, for example, it is the issue of settlement patterns.

In addition to human interaction, not only do there appear to be more disasters and worse disasters, but it is the poor who are disproportionately affected. It is not the rich who live next to chemical plants. It is not the rich who live behind explosives factories or next to oil pipelines. It is the poor, of course, and it is they who are more vulnerable. So it is not that the better off are not affected by disasters at all, but that they are less vulnerable and are more easily able to recover from disasters. The poor, however, when hit by adversity, suffer a great deal and often lack the means to recuperate or to restore their position.

So it is this combination of heightened vulnerability to disasters in general, coupled with the devastating effects on the poor in particular, that necessitates a fresh approach towards disaster management. This approach is really international best practice that is involved in this Bill, in which the primary stress is placed upon prevention and mitigation

• upon preventing disasters from occurring and from mitigating disasters and the consequences of disasters. This is an admirable approach and it does not, of course, diminish the need for adequate response - an adequate emergency preparedness - but it merely shifts the emphasis towards preventing disasters from occurring in the first place. We are satisfied that this is an important step in the right direction.

Of course, most disasters show little respect for borders or governments, and it is imperative as well that the Bill provides for a co-ordinated response by all three spheres of government, according each a specific role and, of course, a complementary role. This is not an easy task given our system of governance.

In respect of this Bill, the aspects involved include the classification of disasters, the apportionment of primary responsibility in responding to disasters, the co-ordination and integration of disaster management plans, and the like. All in all, we are satisfied that the Bill indeed does provide for an integrated approach and a co-ordinated approach by Government. Here, we also want to refer positively to the requirement that we as a committee inserted in the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act a couple of years back stipulating that prior to any new function being assigned to local government, certain consultative steps should be taken including, importantly, the fact that the FFC should be requested to investigate and report upon the consequences of such an assignment.

Now, unfortunately, when the Bill was introduced last year, public hearings were held and the committee ended up processing some 95% of the Bill, in fact, before the Minister withdrew the Bill in order that it comply with the requirements of the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act. In parenthesis, I notice that the memorandum to the Bill makes no reference to this, which is somewhat surprising. Be that as it may, the Bill we have just processed incorporates all the amendments that we made last year, leaving relatively little to be done this time around.

I want to conclude by making reference to a financial matter. The memorandum to the Bill states that the financial consequences or implications of the Bill on provinces and on municipalities are negligible. Now, this may well be true in the sense that a negligible sum of money is required to kickstart the implementation of the Bill, but, in reality, the financial consequences of disaster management are far more complex than simply the quantum required to implement this Bill in the first instance. There are a whole lot of complex matters that the FFC in particular investigated, and it has made recommendations to the executive.

According to the FFC, there will be finance required, even in the immediate stages, to meet the start-up costs and ongoing institutional costs, as well as the development of prevention and mitigation strategies. These all have to be funded. In the greater scheme of things it may well be that the initial sum required is not a huge amount, but there will be many municipalities, I venture to suggest, that will not be doing much in the way of disaster management until funding is made available. So even minor levels of funding may be crucial in getting this off the ground and across the country by all municipalities, in particular.

The IFP is strongly opposed to unfunded mandates and does not believe that new functions should be assigned to municipalities without due consideration being given to the financial implications of such functions. So we really do urge that the executive pay due regard to the report of the committee, which itself has taken the recommendations of the FFC reasonably seriously.

In conclusion, we support the Bill. We think it is an excellent Bill.

Mr P UYS: Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, existing South African legislation does not deal adequately with disaster management. The major shortcoming is that it focuses on dealing with disasters after they have occurred and largely ignores prevention and risk reduction. Previous policies focused predominantly on relief and recovery efforts. This new approach involves a shift away from the perception that disasters are rare occurrences, managed by emergency rescue and support services, to that of prevention, aimed at saving lives and protecting assets before they are lost. This Bill also seeks to eliminate the confusion created by current legislation regarding declarations of disaster, and recognises that successful disaster management can only be achieved if a spirit of partnership and co-operative governance is adhered to by Government, particularly because of the crosscutting nature of disaster management.

Disaster management is a challenge that poses immense responsibilities. If approached correctly it could become one of the most important elements in building a sustainable society, with the ultimate goal being to integrate disaster management into the process of development planning.

Hierdie wetsontwerp maak voorsiening vir ‘n geïntegreerde en ‘n gekoördineerde rampbestuursbeleid wat fokuseer op voorkoming of vermindering van die risiko van rampe, verligting van die felheid van rampe, noodgereedheid, vinnige en effektiewe reaksie tot rampe en herstel ná rampe.

Voorsiening word gemaak vir die instelling van nasionale, provinsiale en munisipale rampbestuursentrums. Een van die belangrikste funksies van die nasionale rampbestuursentrum is die klassifisering van rampe as plaaslike, provinsiale of nasionale rampe. ‘n Metropolitaanse voorsitter of ‘n distriksmunisipaliteit kan ‘n eenheid van vrywilligers instel in daardie munisipaliteit om aan rampbestuur in die munisipaliteit deel te neem. Verpligtend vir elke metropolitaanse en distriksmunisipaliteit is om ‘n rampbestuursentrum vir hulle gebied in te stel.

Ingevolge die wetsontwerp moet die nasionale rampbestuursraamwerk ‘n raamwerk voorsien waarbinne staatsorgane rampbestuur kan befonds, met besondere klem op voorkoming en vermindering van risiko’s van rampe, insluitende toekennings om by te dra tot herstel ná rampe en rehabilitasie en betaling van slagoffers van rampe en hulle afhanklikes.

Wanneer ‘n ramp plaasvind, kan die nasionale, provinsiale en munisipale staatsorgane finansieel bydra tot reaksie-optredes en herstel en rehabilitasie ná rampe. Die koste verbonde aan die herstel of vervanging van openbaresektorinfrastruktuur behoort gedra te word deur die staatsorgane wat verantwoordelik is vir die instandhouding van sodanige infrastruktuur.

Die Minister kan, in die nasionale rampbestuursraamwerk, ‘n persentasie van die begroting of enige aspek van ‘n begroting van ‘n provinsie of munisipale staatsorgaan voorskryf as ‘n drempel om toegang te verkry vir addisionele befondsing deur die nasionale regering vir reaksie-optredes. Munisipaliteite met ‘n gebrekkige kapasiteit sal gehelp moet word om die strukture en planne, soos deur die wetsontwerp voorgeskryf, in plek te stel. Hier kan veral verwys word na die verskillende rampbestuursentrums, asook die rampbestuursplanne. Befondsing hiervoor moet deur die nasionale regering as ‘n voorwaardelike toekenning aan munisipaliteite gemaak word.

Rampbestuur, voorkoming en verligting deur munisipaliteite en provinsies sal befonds moet word deur die begroting van die nasionale departement. Aansoek sal gedoen moet kan word vir die befondsing van bepaalde projekte wat geëvalueer moet word teen die nasionale prioriteitslys van ramprisiko’s. Ernstige oorweging sal dus geskenk moet word aan die volgende drie belangrike finansiële komponente: duidelike kriteria vir provinsies en munisipaliteite om befondsing van die sentrale gebeurlikheidsreserwe te bekom; befondsing om die instelling van munisipale rampbestuursentra te vergemaklik, en voorsiening van befondsing aan provinsies en munisipaliteite vir voorkoming en verligting.

Aan die Minister, agb Adjunkminister, die voorsitter van die portefeuljekomitee en in besonder die personeel, wil ons baie dankie sê. Ek dink dit is ‘n baie groot verbetering op die wetgewing wat ons op hierdie oomblik het en die Nuwe NP steun dit baie graag. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[This Bill makes provision for an integrated and co-ordinated disaster management policy which focuses on preventing or reducing the risk inherent in disasters, relieving the severity of disasters, ensuring readiness to deal with emergencies, responding quickly and effectively to disasters and reparation after disasters.

Provision is being made for the establishment of national, provincial and municipal disaster management centres. One of the most important functions of the national disaster management centre is the classification of disasters as local, provincial or national disasters. A metropolitan chairperson or a district municipality can establish a unit of volunteers in that municipality to participate in disaster management in that particular municipality. It is compulsory for every metropolitan and district municipality to establish a disaster management centre for their area.

In terms of the Bill the national disaster management framework must provide a framework within which state organs can fund disaster management, with particular emphasis on the prevention and reduction of the risk of disasters, including allocations to contribute to the reparation after disasters and rehabilitation and payments to victims of disasters and their dependants.

When a disaster occurs national, provincial and municipal organs of state can contribute financially to response activities and reparation and rehabilitation after disasters. The costs related to the reparation or replacement of public sector infrastructure ought to be carried by the state organs responsible for the maintenance of such infrastructure.

The Minister can, in the national disaster management framework, prescribe a percentage of the budget or any aspect of a budget of a provincial or municipal organ of state as a threshold to gain access to additional funding through the national government for response activities. Municipalities with insufficient capacity will have to be assisted to put in place the structures and plans, as prescribed by the Bill. Here one can refer specifically to the different disaster management centres as well as the disaster management plans. Funding for this should be made by the national government to municipalities as a conditional allocation.

Disaster management, prevention and relief by municipalities and provinces will have to be funded from the budget of the national department. Application will have to be made for the funding of specific projects which will have to be assessed against the national priority list of disaster risks. Serious consideration will therefore have to be given to the following three important financial components: clear criteria for provinces and municipalities to get funding from the central contingency reserve; funding to facilitate the establishment of municipal disaster management centres; and the provision of funding to provinces and municipalities for prevention and relief. We would like to say thank you very much to the Minister, hon Deputy Minister, the Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee and in particular the staff. I think this is a vast improvement on the legislation that we have at the moment and the New NP gladly takes great pleasure in supporting it. [Applause.]

Rev A D GOOSEN: Chairperson, my contribution to this debate will focus on the importance of co-operative governance in all matters pertaining to disaster management. This is significant especially as disaster management can never be the sole responsibility of just one sphere of government, because when a disaster strikes a certain area or community the country as a whole is affected.

The need, therefore, to rally to the aid of those who have been directly affected by a disaster warrants the assistance not only of all spheres of government, but also of civil society. This then is precisely what the Bill provides for.

Chapter 2 of the Bill makes provision for intergovernmental structures to be put in place. The first condition is that the President must establish an Intergovernmental Committee on Disaster Management, consisting of Cabinet Ministers, MECs and municipal councillors. This committee, therefore, consists solely of politicians whose sole responsibility is to lead the process.

The significance of the committee is that it must give effect to the principles of co-operative governance as set out in Chapter 3 of the Constitution. I merely want to mention section 41, which says in this regard that all spheres must ``co-operate with one another in mutual trust and good faith’’.

Barring the aforementioned, the intergovernmental committee is also accountable and must report to Cabinet on the co-ordination of disaster management among the different spheres of government so that they will all be brought into one body. The committee must also advise and make recommendations to Cabinet on issues relating to disaster management, and on the establishment of a national framework for disaster management, which is aimed at ensuring an integrated and uniform approach to disaster management by all spheres.

The other structure which is also of importance is the one brought about and established by the Minister for Provincial and Local Government, namely the National Disaster Management Advisory Forum. This body consists of the head of the national centre. It includes representatives from the national Government and provincial departments, as well as municipal officials and a host of role-players, such as organised business and so forth.

This body is, as such, a body of officials. The advisory forum is a body in which all the spheres of government and other role-players consult one another and co-ordinate their actions on matters pertaining to disaster management. Therefore, we can see that the different spheres of government are brought in to play their role in curbing disasters and their effects. As a body this forum, consisting of officials, makes recommendations to the Intergovernmental Committee on Disaster Management.

Apart from the forum, we also have what we call the National Disaster Management Framework whose prime responsibility is to carry out the implementation envisaged in the Disaster Management Bill. Contrary to what Mrs Borman said here, namely that she doubts whether this framework will be implemented, it is possible that it is going to be implemented, come what may. [Interjections.]

The framework is going to lay down the ground rules. It is going to establish and facilitate a number of things. The most important of these is to establish prevention and mitigation as the core principles of disaster management. Mitigation means to make the occurrence less severe and to lessen the impact of a disaster, and that will thus be the core principle of disaster management. This means not just to deal with a disaster when it occurs, but rather to prevent it from occurring if that is in any way possible. The framework must also provide a coherent, transparent and inclusive policy on disaster management in South Africa. It must not only facilitate international and regional co-operation, but also the involvement of all role-players, such as the private sector, the NGOs and so forth, and give effect to the application of co-operative governance amongst the different spheres of government.

So one can see that this is particularly important because, as in the case of the Intergovernmental Committee on Disaster Management which gives effect to the principles of co-operative governance, the responsibility of a framework is that it must therefore guide the process as to how it is done. I just want to say that the framework must also include the promotion of research, community participation and the facilitation of capacity- building, especially in schools - in education.

So we can see that everybody is going to be involved in disaster management. It is not just a once-off thing, but rather an ongoing process. It becomes, as such, a way of life in South Africa. This then is precisely what the Bill is seeking to attain. I therefore have absolutely no doubt in my mind that through this Bill we have delivered on what was expected from the portfolio committee, and that was to produce a workable piece of legislation that would be to the benefit of all South Africans.

I want to thank the department, especially Mr Louis Buys. During past disasters his name was mentioned as someone who did sterling work in the communities. I know that once this Bill has been passed, promulgated and implemented, we will see a great change in our country. This Bill could not have come at a better time for the DA to manage its disaster of financial mismanagement in Cape Town. [Applause.]

Mr D G MKONO: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, events currently unfolding at the World Heritage Site of St Lucia in KwaZulu-Natal, and the recent extensive and repeated flooding that has occurred in various regions of the Eastern Cape, highlight the necessity for co-ordinated disaster management.

Last year saw the destruction of large numbers of livestock in the Free State owing to severe cold and snow, and the year before that saw the outbreak of cholera in KwaZulu-Natal as well as foot-and-mouth disease. In the year preceding this one, there was massive flooding in KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and Limpopo, and massive forest and veld fires across the Western Cape and Eastern Cape. In the past three years numerous tornadoes have struck populated areas, destroying the homes of many people. What this list of events demonstrates is that, firstly, disasters are a regular occurrence in South Africa and, secondly, that we have faced and can expect to continue to face a wide and diverse range of disasters.

Disaster management, and the manipulation of the Bill before us, is an expensive affair that cannot be denied. What we as responsible parliamentarians cannot lose sight of is the astonishingly high cost in human life and the socioeconomic suffering that these disasters have caused. When we compare these costs with the costs of proper disaster management, we cannot but come to the conclusion that the proper implementation of this Bill should be a matter of priority.

Despite the comprehensive nature of this Bill and the framework that it envisages, the UDM must raise an important concern regarding implementation. There have been numerous unfortunate instances in recent years in which an area was declared a disaster area, but the proper responses and relief from authorities were not forthcoming for many months or even years. This type of situation cannot be tolerated. If we are to invest in disaster management and create the large administration intended by this Bill, then we cannot allow the continuation of the trend of painfully slow disaster relief on the ground. Having said that, we hold out much hope that this new Bill will, in fact, improve the speed with which authorities respond to disasters.

The strength of this Bill lies in its recognition of all three spheres of government and, specifically, the recognition in chapter 6 of the responsibility of the national sphere of government to provide funding to assist provincial and local governments to deal with postdisaster recovery and rehabilitation. Mitigation and emergency preparedness must be the medium-term goal of national disaster management, with specific attention focused on the capacity of municipalities to be prepared for emergencies and to have the ability to mitigate their severity.

The overall financial and management capacity of municipalities remains problematic, especially in the context of severe financial pressure being experienced by the vast majority of municipalities. When it comes to the highly technical and complicated nature of disaster management, national and provincial governments have a clear and unambiguous duty to ensure that the sphere of government that is usually closest to the disaster area has the capacity to respond immediately and effectively. Finally, I would like to turn to chapter 7 of the Bill which deals with the issue of disaster management volunteers. These provisions are long overdue and will hopefully provide the framework for the many dedicated and committed citizens, who have volunteered during disasters, to receive the training that will enhance their abilities to contribute constructively.

It is a matter of great pride that South Africans have never hesitated to volunteer for anything, from forest firefighting to cleaning oil-drenched penguins, whenever disaster has struck. There are clearly a great many South Africans who see it as their duty as citizens to be actively involved in disaster management. I believe that this House should salute these dedicated South Africans through the proper implementation of this chapter. The UDM supports the Bill. [Time expired.]

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Chairperson and hon Minister, we cannot avoid disasters, but we can make provision through policies and funding for emergency preparedness, prevention, mitigation, emergency response and postdisaster recovery.

Every year we have major floods in our country. The Eastern Cape has recently experienced one of its worst winters in a long time. People were trapped by snow, and the ensuing floods damaged property and infrastructure. The human despair that comes with such environmental damage is not measured by proper state compensation. Losses incurred involve not only the destruction of property, but also the new burden of the costs on families to fix damaged property.

The worst disasters seem to occur the worst in poor areas. This is mainly because poor people cannot make provision for insurance policies, nor can poor areas expect reasonable maintenance of the environment from government, especially from local and municipal governments. In other words, in poor areas basic environmental management must, primarily, be the responsibility of all government spheres.

In response to the disaster that occurred on the Cape Flats in 2001, Ministers from national, provincial and local government promised the residents that land had been identified to which they could be relocated as the land they were currently occupying was not conducive to safe and healthy conditions. But there are obviously no services in that community. To date, this has not happened. It would dramatically affect the votes of a particular political party if many residents from that ward were moved to another ward. It is a disgrace when people become pawns in the hands of political bosses for political expediency.

The Bill makes provision for an intergovernmental committee on disaster management, a four-tier governmental co-operative body which, we hope, will address some of this country’s most serious basic human needs. All spheres of government should have equal access to the contingency reserve fund, and it should not be viewed as the national fund only. Guidelines should be drawn up so that emergency access does not hamper rapid and effective response to disasters. Disaster management touches the core of human development and security. In our country, prevention and mitigation cannot be seen in isolation from basic infrastructural security. What this Bill does not adequately address is the poor environmental and living infrastructure in which most of our people live. The obligation to manage these areas falls mainly within the competence of local and municipal authorities. Many municipalities have no or limited capacity to deal with disasters. National government must, through start-up costs and ongoing institutional costs, budget for and fund these municipalities to prepare them for any disaster.

However, whatever alleviation is provided, we cannot ignore the problem that infrastructural weaknesses persist in these communities. The mitigating measures local and municipal governments need to provide to qualify for state disaster grants are no match for addressing the basic living and unsustainable environmental conditions these communities face.

Many informal settlements are designed for disasters to happen. Local and municipal governments are unable to do anything about this. Their preventive measures will only be patchwork instead of real management control. Funding of postdisaster recovery and rehabilitation would be difficult to apply in this regard. In other words, to be able to get Government assistance, municipalities will have to ensure that all infrastructure and policy demand certain requirements.

What we need is a more comprehensive policy that includes infrastructure development that is attached to disaster management control. Local and municipal governments that meet the requirements through the development of infrastructure must be compensated accordingly in relation to any mitigating measures subscribed to in this regard.

The Bill makes provision for the development of a national disaster management framework. We in the ACDP believe that this framework can provide the principles and details of infrastructure development and disaster control management. It is, therefore, imperative that the national management centre ensures that all spheres of government and other role- players establish, co-ordinate, promote and implement disaster management in all their plans and strategies.

In order to manage disasters effectively, governments, according to the Financial and Fiscal Commission, are required to plan ahead, build better and move people out of harm’s way. In order to do this, we believe that the proper basic socioeconomic and environmental needs must be met. The ACDP supports the Bill.

Mr B J NOBUNGA: Chairperson, hon members, disaster management is a very important issue that governments must deal with, especially in this millennium.

Development benefits mankind whilst, at the same time, disadvantaging mankind and the environment. The change in global weather patterns is a case in point, which shows how the price of development has been global warming from the emissions of our industries and automobiles. Recent weather patterns have seen many countries affected by tornadoes, floods and earthquakes, and we can never tell the extent to which our activities have contributed to some of these occurrences. But, with regard to others, like tornadoes and floods, we can, with conviction, argue the positive link between these occurrences.

In South Africa in the past we saw the issue of disasters as something that did not touch us that much, in particular snow. But the recent disasters precipitated by global warming have shown us that we would be making a mistake to think that we are immune to disasters. The recent very cold weather in the Eastern Cape, the floods in the Western Cape and the fires in Mpumalanga and other disasters that occurred in other parts of our country show that we are also victims of disasters.

We need to be always on the alert to act when challenged by nature or even human-made or human-error disasters, such as the train accidents we have seen in Mozambique, Tanzania and India. Local government faces even greater challenges in this regard. They are the first port of call when disaster strikes. The Bill requires metropolitan and district municipalities to establish and implement a framework for disaster management aimed at ensuring an integrated and uniform approach, which will ensure the involvement of both the private sector and nongovernmental institutions.

These are great challenges, considering that some of these municipalities do not have the capacity to deal with such issues without assistance. There is also the fact that some category C municipalities do not have the capacity to handle some of the functions stipulated in this Bill, whilst, on the other hand, some category B municipalities have the capacity, and these municipalities are going to perform these functions on behalf of the category C municipalities.

The greatest challenge is that, in these instances, the municipalities without capacity are those municipalities in needy areas and previously disadvantaged communities. We have seen during the recent disasters that befell the Eastern Cape that the majority of the people that are the worst affected are not even able to pick up the pieces in order to start all over again. Poverty and helplessness are thus perpetuated.

This is where one would expect local government to assist, but they are experiencing fundamental problems, such as capacity and resources. Rehabilitation of disaster-affected areas cancels out the strides this Government has made to improve access, and impoverishes our people again.

The Bill expects that different district municipalities should co-ordinate the efforts at disaster management in municipal disaster management centres in order for them to be able to promote an integrated and co-ordinated approach to disaster management, with special emphasis on prevention and mitigation. The municipal disaster management centre is thus supposed to have a disaster management plan, which will require capacity on the part of municipalities to draw up monitor and execute.

For disaster management to be successful, a co-ordinated and integrated approach, which seeks to pool all resources, will be necessary, as will adopting an approach which says that for there to be maximum participation and utilisation of human resources one needs to directly involve as many stakeholders as possible. The idea of the municipal advisory forum then becomes a need that cannot be compromised. Although the provision in this Bill makes it mandatory, we feel the forum will contribute a great deal towards the success of disaster management, especially at municipal level.

The forum, therefore, poses a challenge to the municipal capacity that would help it, within its jurisdiction where the centre is, to lead or work with the forum which will have specialists or people whose work impacts on disaster vis-à-vis management, business, labour, civic organisations, traditional leaders and other stakeholders.

Resources are always needed when disaster strikes, but resources are also needed to ensure that communities are more prepared in order to minimise the aftereffects of disasters. With the state of underdevelopment in most communities, the congestion of informal settlements, the poor planning and storm water drainage in areas where the previously disadvantaged are and where poorest in our communities are, coupled with the poverty and unemployment which make the rate of indigence very high, the greater amount of resources are therefore needed to help these communities to cope with the challenge of meeting the requirements of this legislation.

The successful implementation of this Bill will be supported by a start-up backing fund, which will ensure that the necessary structures are put in place and that the initial processes that make it possible for municipalities to ready themselves for any eventuality that may occur as a result of a disaster or disasters kick in.

Angivale ngekutsi ngihlabe umkhosi kuto tonkhe takha muti talelive kanye nemhlaba wonkhe kwekutsi sikwente kube ngumsebenti wetfu kunciphisa tonkhe tintfo lesitentako letidala kwekutsi kube khona kugucugucuka kwesimo selitulu … (Translation of Siswati paragraph follows.)

[I want to conclude by raising the alarm among all the citizens of this country and the whole world that we should make it our responsibility to minimise everything that causes the weather pattern to change …]

… more especially this week when we pass this Bill and also owing to the fact that this week has been declared as ``Ozone and Atmosphere Week’’.

We are therefore calling on the people of South Africa to volunteer when this legislation has been promulgated in order to be ready to help other South Africans who would be affected by any kind of disaster that befalls us in this country, including our neighbours, and people in other parts of the world. The ANC supports the Bill. [Applause.] Dr S E M PHEKO: Chairman, the Disaster Management Bill is a timely and very necessary piece of legislation. It is a plan which puts our country in a state of preparedness for any disaster, especially those caused by nature.

Scientists have warned of global warming and radical changes in climatic conditions. It has been observed that some parts of the world which used to be extremely cold are experiencing heat, while those countries which used to be warm are experiencing unprecedented cold. The changes in our own country have caused floods, strong winds and heavy snow, resulting in a great deal of damage to livestock and plants, and the loss of human life. There have also been destructive fires.

The Bill provides for an integrated and co-ordinated disaster management policy that focuses on preventing or reducing the risk of disasters, mitigating the severity of disasters, emergency preparedness, rapid and effective response to disasters and postdisaster recovery. The Bill provides for national, provincial and municipal disaster management centres and disaster management volunteers. Clauses 26 and 27 deal with responsibilities in the event of a national disaster and the declaration of a national state of disaster, respectively.

Clause 27 is a great improvement on the state of affairs that has prevailed. In the past, pleas had to be made for an area to be declared a national disaster area, but now clause 27(1) states:

In the event of a national disaster, the Minister may, by notice in the Gazette, declare a national state of disaster if -

(a) existing legislation and contingency arrangements do not adequately provide for the national executive to deal effectively with the disaster; or

(b) other special circumstances warrant the declaration of a national state of disaster.

The PAC thinks that this is a prudent piece of legislation and that it is well thought out. We hope that this Bill will not be a case of legislation only being good on paper, but failing on implementation. The PAC supports the Disaster Management Bill. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson and Minister, over the past year we have seen the world hit by a series of disasters, such as famines, floods, heavy rains and earthquakes, among many other natural and man-made disasters. Government’s duty in terms of this is to put in place management criteria to approach such horrific situations.

The MF is pleased to note that this Bill does not only set out to do the above, but also aims to put in place important measures in order to avoid and minimise the possibility of this human and economic loss. The MF is in full support of all sectors - public, private and NGOs - dedicating their efforts to preventing these losses.

We are once again called upon to work together, and this will be to the benefit of all people, no matter what sector they belong to. Disaster management is for all. It is not an arena for political parties to engage in a competition for votes in the next election. We should utilise the competition positively by challenging each other as to how much we can do to establish a proper and adequate disaster management system. Let us not waste time in finger pointing as to who has and who has not done whatever. We are here to protect our people, and let us assure our people that we are here to do that.

The Disaster Management Bill has been debated at length and that is to be expected, noting the intricacy of putting such a mechanism in place. The MF would like to give notice of its full support and dedication to the disaster management project, and hereby calls on all parties and persons to embrace this project and make every effort to put their shoulders to the wheel to put it into effect.

The MF supports the Disaster Management Bill. [Applause.]

Mr G A J GROBLER: Chairperson, the Bill that we are debating today is one of those Bills that are absolutely necessary.

Provision must be made at all three levels of government for structures to provide for the following: preventing or reducing the risk of disasters, mitigating the severity of disasters, emergency preparedness, rapid and effective response to disasters, postdisaster recovery, etc.

To manage all these issues, national, provincial and municipal disaster management centres must be put in place. Of course, one hopes that disasters will never happen. Provincial and local authorities annually budget for and spend millions of rands on protection and ambulance services in the hope that they will not have to make use of these services. Unfortunately, life does not work that way.

We in our country are blessed. So far we have been spared the disaster of 11 September that Americans experienced because of the deplorable actions of terrorists. South Africa, on the other hand, is regularly hit by natural disasters, such as floods and veld fires, as recently experienced in various parts of our country. The pollution disaster which is currently looming on our coastlines is becoming a regular feature, and that is a worrying aspect. However, we are blessed with persons who are always prepared to put their lives at risk in order to save the lives and property of other people. The DA wants to pay tribute to these people.

What is, however, a matter of concern is the inability of certain provincial governments and municipalities to learn from experience. Not enough attention is given to the prevention of disasters, such as the flooding of low-lying areas - and we have heard today that it is mostly the poor who suffer. Millions of rands are readily available for some premiers to create little empires. These moneys - the R25 million in the Western Cape, for instance - could have been better spent on preventing disasters that so regularly occur in the Western Cape.

During the deliberation stages of this Bill many valuable inputs were received from various stakeholders. No Bill can be seen as a perfect Bill, but with the assistance of the personnel of various departments, who are sitting on this side here, the portfolio committee was able to produce a Bill that can be of great value in managing disasters in this country.

The cost factors in these cases are of no importance, because the life of a person cannot be measured in rands and cents. What is of importance, especially as far as local government is concerned, is that funds must follow functions.

The DA supports the Bill. [Applause.]

Mr Y I CARRIM: Chairperson, comrades and friends, ultimately there are five features of the new model of disaster management: firstly, prevention and mitigation are at its heart; secondly, it is the poor who are disproportionately vulnerable to disasters; thirdly, disaster management is integral to the development plans of all spheres of government, particularly local government; fourthly, the concerted co-operation of all three spheres of government is crucial to managing disasters as part of an integrated, co-ordinated and uniform approach; and, fifthly, the active co- operation and involvement of civil society is fundamental to managing disasters effectively.

The new model, as has been indicated already by several speakers, represents a very comprehensive approach to disaster management. It is a considerable advance on the old model used in this country. The predominant focus, of course, of the old model was on relief and recovery efforts, but the new model focuses fundamentally on preventive measures.

I would like to quote the definitions of disaster'' and disaster management’’ to convey to members the quality of this Bill and to acknowledge the enormous contribution of the department. They read thus:

``disaster’’ means a progressive or sudden, widespread or localised, natural or human-caused occurrence which -

(a) causes or threatens to cause -

   (i)  death, injury or disease;
   (ii) damage to property, infrastructure or the environment; or
   (iii)      disruption of the life of a community; and

(b) is of a magnitude that exceeds the ability of those affected by the disaster to cope with its effects using only their own resources;

 ``disaster  management''  means  a  continuous  and  integrated  multi-
 sectoral, multi-disciplinary process of planning and implementation  of
 measures aimed at -


 (a)    preventing or reducing the risk of disasters;
 (b)    mitigating the severity or consequences of disasters;
 (c)    emergency preparedness;
 (d)    a rapid and effective response to disasters; and
 (e)    post-disaster recovery and rehabilitation.

There can surely be very few countries in the world that have such good definitions of both disaster'' anddisaster management’’. I hope that this will serve as a guide, not just to other countries in the developing world, but to those in the advanced and industrialised world too.

Aspects of the new model, of course, have already begun to be implemented and have served us well in managing disasters in the recent past. But, of course, there is a long way to go before the model set out in the Bill is fully implemented. It is crucial, therefore, that an appropriate strategy for its implementation is developed. That must involve not just the department, but a wide range of other stakeholders as well. A key aspect, of course, is funding for both implementing the model and managing disasters.

The portfolio committee feels that the contention that disaster management is not an original competence of local government, as defined in the Constitution, is reasonable. The argument that disaster management is a concurrent function of national and provincial government, and that the Bill, in effect, assigns additional powers and functions to local government, is entirely reasonable. Hence, the portfolio committee proposed that in terms of the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act the Bill should be referred to the Financial and Fiscal Commission for it to assess the cost of the Bill if it is to be implemented.

The FFC provided a fairly comprehensive report on the financial implications of the Bill. We express our appreciation for that. We are pleased to note too that the Ministry and the department are committed to giving serious attention to these proposals. We will, obviously, be monitoring developments.

The portfolio committee would like to emphasise its concern in that national and provincial governments must avoid heaping more and more responsibilities on local government without ensuring that local government has the necessary funds and capacity to implement these additional responsibilities. We are pleased to note, too, that the Municipal Finance Management Bill currently before Parliament, in fact, strengthens the provisions in the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act against unfunded mandates.

In our report to Parliament, we summarised the proposals of the FFC on the funding of disaster management. As a committee we do not have the technical expertise to evaluate the practicability of these proposals, but we feel that serious consideration should be given to the following: firstly, that the three existing relief funds - the Disaster Relief Fund, the Social Relief Fund and the State President’s Fund - should be combined and administered centrally; secondly, that clear principles should be determined for provincial governments and municipalities to access funding from the central contingency reserve; thirdly, the possibility of providing funding to facilitate the establishment of municipal disaster management centres and to provide an incentive for municipalities to get involved in disaster management; and, fourthly, the possibility of providing funding to provinces and municipalities for prevention and mitigation.

The committee notes too that with the passing of the Disaster Management Bill, disasters will be declared twice: in terms of the Disaster Management Bill and the Fundraising Act of 1978. The committee urges the executive to consider resolving this anomaly.

The committee also urges the executive to expedite the setting up of the National Disaster Management Centre with the requisite start-up funding and funding also for responding to disasters and the appointment of the centre’s head so that a national disaster management framework is in place as soon as possible. It is also important that regulations that are necessary to support the successful implementation of the Disaster Management Bill, should be in place before the Act is put into operation.

As I move towards a conclusion, I want to observe that Mrs Gloria Borman of the disaster alliance - for really that is what it is - is totally incapable of being positive about anything regarding this new democracy or this Government. [Interjections.] I challenge members to look at Hansard. From June 1999 onwards there has never been a single occasion on which Mrs Borman has said anything remotely positive either about this new Government or this new democracy. [Interjections.]

In fact, I thought that for once, instead of the usual shrieking and screeching, we would hear something constructive, conciliatory and positive because this is a noncontentious Bill. [Interjections.] It is a Bill that was secured through considerable consensus in the committee. I think it is really sad that Mrs Borman is incapable of escaping herself. [Interjections.] The more she screeches negatively, the less seriously we take anything she says. [Interjections.]

In fact, a very senior member of this House, as I came to the podium, said to me: ``Is there nothing, Yunus, you can do about saying to this House that we need some sort of management of Gloria Borman’s disastrous inputs in this House? Is there no way that we can do that?’’ [Interjections.] [Applause.] I said to him that it was not for nothing that they are the DA. [Interjections.]

Finally, let me go to something more constructive. [Interjections.] The screeching is like water off a duck’s back. My appreciation, which in fact has been conveyed many times over, goes to Mr Louis Buys, in particular. I do not want to suggest that there is a Louis Buys fan club in our committee, but it borders on that because of his outstanding work.

I would also like to express my appreciation to Petra Bouwer, once again, for his sterling work in negotiating the very amendments we made to this Bill; to Prof Ailsa Holloway of the Disaster Mitigation for Sustainable Livelihood Project of the University of Cape Town; to Chris Sibanyoni; to Debhi Hene, if she is around - we lose her to the Chief Whip of this Parliament, but we want to convey, once again, our appreciation to her; to Pat Reid, who, I think, has just foregone her presidency of the Disaster Management Institute of Southern Africa; and to Allan Sharp - an academic who engaged us with a document that ran, I think, into 40 or so pages, as our very erstwhile secretary of our committee would say.

This is, in fact, a very good Bill. It has the full support of all the political parties, notwithstanding Mrs Gloria Bosman and her shrieking, and a wide range of stakeholders. [Interjections.] It is time now for all of us to work together to effectively implement the new Bill. [Interjections.]

In conclusion, I want to address, in particular, a colleague of mine, Rob Davies, by drawing his attention to the fact that I have not used three minutes and 10 seconds of my time. [Interjections.] Now, I know this may be a surprise, not least to the Chairperson of this House and those who know me, but I would like a full round of applause for the fact that I am about to end my speech three minutes short of the 10 minutes allocated to me. [Applause.]

Thank you very much. And, I would finally like to draw the attention of the current presiding officer to the fact that I am owed two minutes and 48 seconds the next time I speak here, over and above the time allocated. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Chairperson, I have just overheard the chairperson of the portfolio committee say that he forgot to welcome our new director-general. Members will notice that our new director-general is a woman, Ms Lindiwe Msengana-Ndlela. Hon members had better get to know her better in the future. She is the lady in the red jacket over there. Could hon members please give her a round of applause. [Applause.]

I would like to thank everybody who participated in this debate, and particularly all the political parties that actually supported this Bill, despite all the things that my favourite MP, Mrs Gloria Borman, has said today. I would like us to ignore some of the things she has said. [Interjections.]

Some of the speakers expressed scepticism regarding implementation. However, the hon Goosen made a very important point on the co-operation of all three spheres of government when disasters occur. In addition, this Bill provides for the establishment of a national disaster management advisory forum and for volunteers. This means that everybody will be involved in the implementation of this legislation.

The hon Mkono is correct: Our people have always volunteered to assist when disasters occur, and we salute them. We really thank all our people who have assisted during disasters in the past. We have to encourage them to undergo training, as the Bill provides for that kind of capacity-building so that they are better able to cope with these situations. Our people have to be educated around these issues.

The hon Smith raised the issue of unfunded mandates, but I would like to emphasise the point that the issue is around proper management of available resources and not so much about unfunded mandates. The hon Southgate is also correct. All three spheres of government need to co-operate with each other. She is actually challenging the unicity of Cape Town - she did not mention it - and the DP to co-operate with the national and provincial government in the spirit of this legislation in order to ensure that those people who were affected last year by the floods in some parts of the Cape Flats are actually relocated to the areas that we have identified. We hope that the DP will actually assist us in getting those people relocated to that land.

I want to thank, once more, the portfolio committee for the sterling work they have done, as well as the department. I know that they have more work to do as they also sometimes work beyond the borders of South Africa. We commend them for the sterling they have done. Could members please give our department a round of applause. [Applause.]

I just want to give my friend, the hon Borman, this bit of information which is that we have been commended as South Africa by the United Nations, which said that we did so well with security around the World Summit on Sustainable Development that they have actually learnt a lot from us and have reviewed their own security around the United Nations. I can tell the hon member that we are on the right track, and are not heading for disaster. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill read a second time.

The House adjourned at 18:49. __

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 17 September 2002 in  terms
     of Joint Rule 161, classified the following Bills as  money  Bills:




     (i)     Gas Regulator Levies Bill [B 47 - 2002] (National  Assembly
              - sec 77).


     (ii)    Finance Bill [B 48 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 77).


 (2)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 18 September 2002 in  terms
     of Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bill  as  a  section
     75 Bill:


     (i)     Child Justice Bill [B 49 - 2002] (National Assembly  -  sec
          75).


 (3)    The Minister of  Intelligence  on  9  September  2002  submitted
     drafts  of  the  following  bills,  as  well  as  the   memorandums
     explaining the objects of the proposed legislation, to the  Speaker
     and the Chairperson in terms of Joint Rule 159:


     (i)     National Strategic Intelligence Amendment Bill, 2002;


     (ii)    Intelligence Services Control Amendment Bill, 2002;


     (iii)   Intelligence Services Bill, 2002;


     (iv)    Electronic Communications Security (Pty) Ltd Bill, 2002.


     In  accordance  with  Joint  Rule  159(2),  the  drafts  have  been
     referred to the Ad Hoc Committee  on  Intelligence  Legislation  of
     the National Assembly and the  Select  Committee  on  Security  and
     Constitutional Affairs of the National Council of Provinces by  the
     Speaker and the Chairperson, respectively.


 (4)     The  following  Bill  was  introduced  by   the   Minister   of
     Intelligence in the National Assembly  on  18  September  2002  and
     referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism  (JTM)  for  classification
     in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     National Strategic Intelligence  Amendment  Bill  [B  51  -
          2002] (National Assembly - sec 75) [Bill and prior  notice  of
          its introduction published in Government Gazette No 23828 of 9
          September 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Ad Hoc Committee on  Intelligence
     Legislation of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to  the  Joint  Tagging  Mechanism  (JTM)
     within three parliamentary working days.


 (5)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister of Finance  in
     the National Assembly on 18 September  2002  and  referred  to  the
     Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of  Joint
     Rule 160:


     (i)     Insurance Amendment Bill [B 52 - 2002]  (National  Assembly
          - sec 75) [Bill and prior notice of its introduction published
          in Government Gazette No 23736 of 13 August 2002.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Commitee on Finance  of
     the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to  the  Joint  Tagging  Mechanism  (JTM)
     within three parliamentary working days.

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    Message from National Council of Provinces to National Assembly:


     Bill, subject to proposed amendments, passed  by  National  Council
     of  Provinces  on   17   September   2002   and   transmitted   for
     consideration of Council's proposed amendments:


     (i)     Institution of Legal Proceedings against  Organs  of  State
          Bill [B 65B - 99] (National Assembly - sec 75)  (for  proposed
          amendments, see Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports,
          30 August 2002, p 1373).


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio  Committee  on  Justice
     and Constitutional Development  of  the  National  Assembly  for  a
     report on the amendments proposed by the Council.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Education on the Higher Education Amendment Bill [B 30 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 17 September 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Education, having considered the subject of the Higher Education Amendment Bill [B 30 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 30A - 2002].

2. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on the International Trade Administration Bill [B 38 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 18 September 2002:

 The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry,  having  considered  the
 subject of the International Trade Administration Bill [B  38  -  2002]
 (National Assembly - sec 76), referred to  it  and  classified  by  the
 Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 76 Bill,  reports  the  Bill  with
 amendments [B 38A - 2002].

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Finance Bill [B 48 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 77), dated 18 September 2002:

   The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the Finance Bill [B 48 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 77), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a money Bill, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.