National Council of Provinces - 20 March 2002
WEDNESDAY, 20 MARCH 2002 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:02.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:
That the Council -
(1) notes the overdue expulsion of Zimbabwe from the Commonwealth of Nations, thereby underlining the civilised world’s abhorrence and condemnation of the conduct of Robert Mugabe and his government -
(a) in their flagrant suspension of the rule of law, whereby the
status of the judiciary and respect for its judges have been
diminished;
(b) for their brutality towards Zimbabwe's citizens, who dared to
disagree with the ruling Zanu-PF Party resulting in killings of
men, women and children;
(c) for empowering incorrigible so-called war veterans to carry out
unbridled racist attacks on white farmers resulting in some
cases in murder; and
(d) for generally inculcating a climate of intolerable tensions of
fear and suspicion within its own communities;
(2) applauds the statesmanlike role played by the Presidents of South Africa and Nigeria, two of Africa’s major nations, in ostracising Zimbabwe; and
(3) requests that the South African President does everything in his power to bring Zimbabwe back to normality.
Mr K D S DURR: Mr Chairman, I shall move at the next sitting of this Council:
That the Council -
(1) notes that -
(a) Zanu-PF and Robert Mugabe have retained the Presidency of
Zimbabwe by illegitimate means in the recent presidential
elections;
(b) this has been confirmed by the overwhelming mass of objective
and trained observers that have monitored these elections;
(c) those who supported the rape of democracy in Zimbabwe were
either driven by fear, blind loyalty or misplaced self-interest;
and
(d) many former guerilla movements seem to think solidarity with
their erstwhile comrades is more important than human rights, or
the progress of Africa, through inter alia Nepad and the advance
of liberty and democracy;
(2) calls upon South Africans and Africans to mobilise against this new form of oppression where the ballot box is abused to deny human rights; and
(3) calls upon the South African Government to put blue water between ourselves and states that abuse human and democratic rights and the rule of law. Rev M CHABAKU: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) notes that tomorrow, 21 March, is International Human Rights Day;
(2) further notes that in Palestine human rights continue to be violated because people have been detained in concentration camps in their homeland for over 25 years;
(3) is disturbed by the vengeful actions of the Israeli Prime Minister using weapons of mass destruction as a military solution to a political problem;
(4) gravely grieves at Palestinian and Israeli lives that are being destroyed, bodies maimed and blood spilled;
(5) prays that Mr Sharon and Mr Arafat strive for a peacefully negotiated settlement; and (6) finally prays that during Passover and Lent reconciliation and compassion may abound to all concerned because we need and love them all.
Umntwana B Z ZULU: Sihlalo, ngifisa ukukhipha isaziso sokuthi uma le uMkhandlu sewuphinde uhlala:
Ukuthi isiGungu -
(1) sihalalisele owaye nguMongameli uMhlonishwa uNelson Mandela ngemizamo yakhe nangeqhaza alibambile ekuthuthukiseni umphakathi walelizwe;
(2) simbonge kakhulu ukuthi emva kokuthatha kwakhe umhlalaphansi usaqhubeka nokusebenzela isizwe;
(3) simhalalisele ekuzinikeleni kwakhe ekuthuthukisweni kwemfundo nasekugqugquzeleni osomabhizinisi ukuba bafake isandla ekufukuleni imfundo yababecindezelwe kulelizwe; (4) simbonge kakhulu ngomsebenzi awenzile emasontweni amabili edlule ukuthi ngokutholela izingane zaseMngazi eMpuma Koloni, kanye nezaseKimberley amagumbi okufundela;
(5) ngaphezu kwalokho, sibongele izingane ezinezinkinga zokuzwa ePitoli ngokuthola izinsizakuzwa, - okube yimizamo yakhe uMnumzane Mandela - ukuba nazo zilithole ithuba lokuqhubeka nemfundo yazo;
(6) sithi phambili Madiba, Qhawe le-Afrika, Sithwalandwe! (Translation of Zulu notice of motion follows.)
[Prince B Z ZULU: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:
That the Council -
(1) congratulates the former President, the honourable Nelson Mandela, on his efforts and the role he plays in developing communities in this country;
(2) thanks him very much for the fact that even after his retirement he continues to work for the nation;
(3) congratulates him on his dedication in developing education and encouraging businesspeople to contribute to improving the education of those who were previously oppressed in this country;
(4) thanks him very much for the work he did two weeks ago when he managed to get classrooms for the pupils of Mngazi in the Eastern Cape and of Kimberley;
(5) most importantly, congratulates the deaf pupils in Pretoria on their receiving hearing aids, which was Mr Mandela’s initiative - they too will be able to continue with their education; and
(6) says: Forward Madiba, hero of Africa, honourable man!]
Mr Z S KOLWENI: Mr Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) notes the suspension of Zimbabwe from the Commonwealth of Nations for a period of 12 months;
(2) believes that this decision will encourage Zimbabwean leadership to work for national unity, reconciliation and development;
(3) welcomes the continued role played by Presidents Thabo Mbeki and Olusegun Oasanjo in facilitating an intelligent decision that is in the interests of Zimbabwe and the Southern African region;
(4) calls upon all the prophets of doom to put the issue of the Zimbabwean elections to rest as the majority of the Zimbabwean people have made their choice; and
(5) calls upon Zimbabweans to start the process of striving for unity, reconciliation and reconstruction.
HUMAN RIGHTS DAY
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that tomorrow, 21 March 2002, is South Africa’s Human Rights Day which is in recognition of the sacrifices that were made by the people of Sharpeville in the fight against apartheid abuses of human rights;
(2) further notes that this historic day coincides with the International Day for the Eradication of Racial Discrimination;
(3) acknowledges that this day affirms the commitment by both the South African Government and the international community to protect human rights;
(4) expresses its concerns over the continuation of human rights abuses in countries such as Nigeria, Sudan, India, Pakistan, Zimbabwe and Palestine;
(5) calls on the communities in these countries to exercise tolerance and accept the right of people to hold different political, religious, social and economic views;
(6) further calls on all South Africans to work together with the international community in the promotion and protection of human rights; and
(7) congratulates all South Africans on their contribution in advancing and promoting a culture of human rights.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
NATIONAL WATER WEEK
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) acknowledges that humans tend to consume natural resources such as water faster than they can be replaced;
(2) further acknowledges that failure to manage our water resources effectively can cause water scarcity which, coupled with underdevelopment, will doom the poor to a state of eternal poverty;
(3) believes that water is a precious resource which all South Africans must learn to manage responsibly in the interest of sustainable development and poverty relief;
(4) welcomes therefore the announcement by the Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry that 18-24 March has been declared National Water Week; and
(5) calls on all South Africans to follow the lead of the Minister and to find creative ways to conserve our precious water resources.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
VALLEY OF THE ZULU KINGS
(Draft Resolution) Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) applauds the announcement made by the MEC for Agriculture and Environmental Affairs in the KwaZulu-Natal Legislature, Mr Narend Singh, that an application had been made to have the valley of the Zulu Kings, the “Emakhosini Area” near Ulundi, declared one of the World Heritage Sites;
(2) acknowledges the importance of the area where most of the Zulu Kings from the 16th and 17th centuries were laid to rest;
(3) expresses the hope that many impoverished communities living in the Valley of the Zulu Kings will benefit substantially if it is declared a World Heritage Site; and
(4) notes with pleasure that such developments in that area will contribute to ecotourism as well as the economy of the country as a whole.
The Chief Whip of the Council moved as an amendment: That, in paragraphs (1) and (3), the word “World” be substituted by the word “National”.
Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I accept the amendment with thanks.
Motion, as amended, agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution, namely:
That the Council -
(1) applauds the announcement made by the MEC for Agriculture and Environmental Affairs in the KwaZulu-Natal Legislature, Mr Narend Singh, that an application had been made to have the valley of the Zulu Kings, the “Emakhosini Area” near Ulundi, declared one of the National Heritage Sites;
(2) acknowledges the importance of the area where most of the Zulu Kings from the 16th and 17th centuries were laid to rest;
(3) expresses the hope that many impoverished communities living in the Valley of the Zulu Kings will benefit substantially if it is declared a National Heritage Site; and
(4) notes with pleasure that such developments in that area will contribute to ecotourism as well as the economy of the country as a whole.
EXECUTION BY STONING IN NIGERIA
(Draft Resolution)
Mnr P A MATTHEE: Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Raad -
(1) in die lig van ons viering van Menseregtedag môre, die doodsvonnis deur steniging wat ‘n Nigeriese hof opgelê het aan ‘n 35-jarige vrou, Safiya Husaini, wat aan owerspel skuldig bevind is nadat sy ‘n baba gekry het terwyl sy nie getroud was nie, ten sterkste veroordeel; en
(2) ons Regering versoek om deur middel van diplomatieke kanale die regering van Nigerië dringend te versoek om nie hierdie wrede vonnis te voltrek nie.
Voorstel goedgekeur ooreenkomstig artikel 65 van die Grondwet. (Translation of Afrikaans notice without motion follows.)
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) in the light of our celebration of Human Rights Day tomorrow, condemns in the strongest terms the sentencing to death by stoning of a 35-year-old woman, Safiya Husaini, who was found guilty of adultery by a Nigerian court after giving birth to a baby without being married; and
(2) calls on our Government to urgently request the government of Nigeria through diplomatic channels not to execute this cruel sentence.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.]
BUILDING OF CLASSROOMS AT MUTSHALINGANA, NORTHERN PROVINCE
(Draft Resolution)
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes -
(a) with appreciation the involvement of the Department of
Correctional Services in a Northern Province Poverty Alleviation
project at Mutshalingana Primary School;
(b) that during August 2001, the community leaders of Mutshalingana,
a village in the former Venda, reached out to the Government to
assist them with the building of classrooms at their primary
school, as some students had to sit under trees in order to get
their lessons;
(c) that this started the process whereby the Departments of
Correctional Services, of Public Works and of Education came
together and decided what roles to play to assist the people in
need; and
(d) that the Department of Correctional Services in Thohoyandou
provided labour in the form of 11 prisoners, who originate from
the very same area to perform the task, which proved to be very
successful and fruitful; and
(2) commends the Department of Correctional Services, the MEC in the province and the prisoners for the dedication and commitment to the needs of the community.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
LAUNCH OF PARLIAMENTARY MILLENNIUM PROJECT
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) congratulates the Presiding Officers of both Houses, the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces, for the launching of the Parliamentary Millennium Project, which took place today in the Queen’s Gallery, adjoining the National Council of Provinces;
(2) notes that the Parliamentary Millennium Project gives expression to the commitment of Parliament to the African Renaissance, and also seeks to promote dialogue and celebrate the diversity of views held by South Africans; and
(3) further notes that it is a method or a means of giving authentic expression to the history of this country and its diverse cultures and languages.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
WEARING OF PARTY COLOURS
(Statement)
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Chairperson, perhaps before I move the resolution printed in my name, I should just comment on my observation of an unusual feature in our House today, and that is the wearing of party colours by some of our members. This is an unusual occurrence in a parliament, and I am not sure it should be encouraged, because I believe that the wearing of colours perhaps should reside in the party-campaigning domain rather than in the House, where we engage with each other as elected representatives. This is something I would ask our colleagues to consider.
APPOINTMENT OF MR M COETZEE AS DEPUTY SECRETARY TO PARLIAMENT
(Draft Resolution)
The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That the Council, on the recommendation of the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces and the Speaker of the National Assembly, appoints Mr M Coetzee as Deputy Secretary to Parliament with effect from 15 April 2002.
Members will be fully aware of our intention, through the Joint Rules Committee, the Rules Committees of the NCOP and the National Assembly, to seek to improve our ability, through the Parliamentary Service, to more effectively manage the executive administrative obligations that the Secretary to Parliament holds.
This new appointee, the Deputy Secretary, will, we believe, enhance our ability to contribute in the manner already indicated by the Joint Rules Committee. I would ask for the House’s support for this recommendation. [Applause.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SOCIAL GRANTS APPROPRIATION BILL
(Consideration of Bill and Report of Select Committee thereon)
Ms Q D MAHLANGU: Chairperson, the Bill we are considering today is, amongst other things, the result of one of the pieces of legislation, called the Public Finance Management Act, from which the executive cannot appropriate funds without first coming to Parliament for approval.
On 31 March 1998 regulations were promulgated in the national Government Gazette. These were regulations 10 and 11. In terms of regulation 10, beneficiaries must be paid their grants from the time when they apply for the grant - the date of application. For instance, if one applies for a grant today, on 20 March, one should be paid from the said date onwards.
Regulation 11 indicated that beneficiaries should only get their grants from the date on which the application was approved, resulting in a contradiction between the two regulations. As a result, a person who applied for a pension two years ago, for example, only got his or her pension at the time when the application was approved. We all know that some provinces take 20 months to approve an application, while some take three months and others take six months. [Interjections.]
Provinces are trying their level best to reduce the waiting period of these applications so that beneficiaries can receive the grants sooner. This Bill tries to deal with the backlog which resulted because of these regulations. As a result, these regulations have been invalidated.
The trustees of the Black Sash took the issue to court. They reached an out- of-court settlement with the Department of Social Development and an agreement on 11 September 2001 when the Twin Towers fell. The agreement reached between the Department of Social Development and the board of trustees of the Black Sash was a major victory in our country.
The Bill before us provides for the appropriation of these funds for all nine provinces to ensure that the people who were disadvantaged as a result of this regulation get what rightfully belongs to them. Funds will then be allocated in the form of conditional grants to all nine provinces, based on the estimated number of beneficiaries per province. There is a breakdown of how many beneficiaries there are and how much provinces are going to get. The conditions pertaining to these grants are the same as those which were stipulated in the Division of Revenue Act of 2001.
I am of the opinion that the passing of this piece of legislation is quite important. I think that it is incumbent upon all of us as members of Parliament, including the Black Sash, to ensure that these moneys go directly to the people for whom they are intended, to look at the methods of how these moneys will be paid to the beneficiaries and to ensure their protection from dangers that may arise as a result of receiving these huge amounts of money. As we know, people who normally receive R550 or R670 will all of a sudden receive R2 000 or R3 000 and that, in our opinion, may have unintended consequences. We have heard of cases in which people have been abused and harassed by their relatives and next of kin, and of many other incidents. We must all make sure, as public representatives, that these moneys do indeed go to these people.
Another point I want to make is that all the beneficiaries who are going to get this lump sum - whether in the form of child care grants, child dependency grants, foster care grants, old age grants, or disability grants
- must be aware of the fact that these moneys are only going to be paid up to the point at which the backdating ends. This is not going to be a permanent feature in their monthly income. That must be clearly understood. As we go into recess and the constituency period all members must make sure that this message is properly communicated.
In my opinion no one other than the ANC could have come to such a decision, because the ANC cares about the poor people in this country, and will continue to care about poor people in this country. This proceeds from the point I made yesterday. In my opinion all these things are in line with the Constitution of this country - in Chapter 2: the Bill of Rights on socioeconomic rights - and it is incumbent upon of all of us to make sure that these rights are realised. With this piece of legislation I think that are trying to make sure that these kinds of rights are enforced and that people benefit from the supreme law of this land that we are all so proud to talk about from time to time.
The ANC lives and the ANC leads and I urge members to support this Bill unreservedly. [Applause.]
Dr P J C NEL: Mnr die Voorsitter, dit verskaf my groot vreugde om vandag namens my party hierdie stuk wetgewing te steun. Ek sê vreugde, want hierdie wetsontwerp, sodra dit as wet in werking gestel word, sal groot vreugde verskaf aan baie duisende mense. Aangesien dit môre Menseregtedag is, dink ek dat vandag die geskikste dag is om hierdie wetsontwerp goed te keur.
Volgens die raming van die Departement van Maatskaplike Ontwikkeling sal 2,9 miljoen begunstigdes, mense onder die armstes van armes, by die wetgewing baat. Genoemde 2,9 miljoen mense is maar net 10% van die 26,9 miljoen mense wat volgens ‘n onlangse studie, gedoen deur mnr Mike Sampson, onder die absolute armoedevlak van R400 per maand per volwassene lewe.
Hoewel dit die geval is, maak dit tog ‘n groot deel, naamlik 20%, uit van die 10,4 miljoen mense wat onder absoluut haglike omstandighede lewe, waar die hele gesin minder as R195 per maand verdien. Die bedrag van R2 miljard, waarvoor hierdie stuk wetgewing voorsiening maak, gaan geneem word uit die nasionale inkomstefonds vir die finansiering van opgehoopte agterstallige uitbetalings aan pensioentrekkers en ander begunstigdes. Dit gaan beslis ‘n ontsaglike verskil maak in die lewe van hierdie mense.
Die agterstallige uitbetalings is die gevolg van verskillende omstandighede, byvoorbeeld die uitfasering van poskantore as betaalpunte. Die oorplasing van betaling aan begunstigdes na alternatiewe betaalpunte het blykbaar nie volgens plan verloop nie. Hoewel hierdie proses reeds in April 2001 begin is, is daar nog steeds begunstigdes wat sedert April 2001 nie weer pensioen ontvang het nie.
Sommige name het om onverklaarbare redes van die lyste verdwyn, ander se toelaes is skielik net opgeskort weens foute wat ingesluip het met herregistrasie. Daar was ook vertragings in goedkeuring vir pensioene. Dit wil dus voorkom asof baie van die oorsake wel voorkom kon gewees het deur die verskillende departemente vir maatskaplike ontwikkeling in die provinsies.
Dit sou beslis baie beter gewees het indien die provinsies die agterstande kon voorkom het. Dit sou nie net baie hartseer, en die ellende wat dit veroorsaak het, voorkom het nie, maar van die gelde wat nou vir agterstande aangewend moet word, kon dalk vir ander doeleindes in welsynsdienste aangewend gewees het.
Daar bestaan reeds groot kommer oor kinders wat net eenvoudig verwerp word deur pleegouers nadat hulle die ouderdom van sewe jaar bereik het, en nie meer vir die kindertoelaes kwalifiseer nie. Van die R2 miljard wat ons vandag goedkeur, sou dalk aangewend kon word vir die betaling van kinderondersteuningstoelaes vir kinders ouer as sewe jaar.
Ek wil afsluit deur te sê dat die lewering van welsynsdienste nie net deur die Regering gedoen kan word nie. Dit is elkeen van ons se plig om skouer aan die wiel te sit. Soos ons in Sotho sê:
Letshwele le beta poho. [Vele hande maak ligte werk.]
Die Nuwe NP steun die wetsontwerp. [Tussenwerpsels.] [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Dr P J C NEL: Mr Chairperson, I take pleasure in supporting this legislation on behalf of my party today. I say a pleasure, because as soon as this Bill is implemented as an Act, it will bring great joy to thousands of people. Since it is Human Rights Day tomorrow I think that today is the most appropriate day to approve this Bill.
According to the estimate of the Department of Social Development 2,9 million beneficiaries, some among the poorest of the poor, will benefit from this legislation. The aforementioned 2,9 million people constitute only 10% of the 26,9 million which, according to a recent study done by Mr Mike Sampson, live under the absolute poverty line of R400 per month per adult.
Although this is the case, it in fact constitutes a large proportion, namely 20%, of the 10,4 million people living under absolutely desperate conditions, in which the whole family earns less than R195 per month. The amount of R2 billion, for which this legislation provides, will be taken from the national revenue fund for the funding of accumulated back payments to pensioners and other beneficiaries. This will definitely make an enormous difference to the lives of these people.
The back payments are the result of various circumstances, for example the phasing out of post offices as pay-points. The transfer of payments to beneficiaries to alternative pay-points apparently did not go according to plan. Although this process was started as far back as in April 2001 there are still beneficiaries who have not received another pension since April 2001.
The names of some people disappeared from the lists for unexplicable reasons, and the grants of some were suddenly simply suspended as a result of mistakes that occurred during reregistration. There were also delays with regard to approval for pensions. It therefore seems as if many of the causes could indeed have been prevented by the various departments for social development in the provinces.
It would definitely have been much better if the provinces could have prevented the delays. Not only would this have prevented much of the heartache and the misery it caused, but some of the funds which must now be utilised for delays, could perhaps have been utilised for other purposes in welfare services.
There is serious concern about children who are simply being rejected by foster parents after the children have reached the age of seven years and no longer qualify for the children’s allowances. Perhaps a part of the R2 billion we are approving today could have been utilised for the repayment of the child support grants for children of over seven years of age.
I want to conclude by saying that the delivery of welfare services cannot be made by the Government alone. It is the duty of each of us to put the shoulder to the wheel. As we say in Sotho: Letshwele le beta poho. [Many hands make light work.]
The New NP supports the Bill. [Interjections.] [Applause.]]
Mr H T SOGONI: Chairperson, hon Deputy Ministers, members, the UDM submits that we should all welcome this Bill because it seeks to address the plight of the poor people of this country who were deprived of their right to receive back pay that accrued to them owing to delays in the finalisation of applications. It is neither important nor relevant now to question why Regulation 11 of 1998 repealed Regulation 10, as the former placed no time limits on the claiming of arrears and it also stipulated that benefits accrue from the date of application rather than on approval.
We acknowledge, however, that the new regulation effectively puts social grants beneficiaries at a disadvantage when claims for arrears were limited to three months only. What really matters now is the positive steps that the Government is taking to restore people’s rights and make good the losses they have suffered.
But there is still a hurdle to contend with, and that is the implementation of the provision of this Bill by the provinces. How do we identify deserving cases for these benefits? Do welfare officers have the capacity to round up all the beneficiaries involved? Do we have reliable data to determine precisely the period during which such arrears were payable in respect of each beneficiary? How do we deal with the risk of fraud to avoid the possibility of these funds ending up in the wrong pockets?
It would be in the best interests of this House, for the purpose of expenditure oversight, if provinces had clear guidelines on how these funds should be handled and also if the process would allow, if possible, for direct involvement by or some kind of formal representation of the beneficiaries in order to make the process more transparent and for clear accountability on the part of the welfare officers.
Mr J L THERON: Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, on 11 September 2001 the Transvaal Provincial Division of the High Court, in the case between the Minister of Social Development and the trustees of the Black Sash, ordered by consent that Regulation 11 be declared invalid and set aside and that the repeal of Regulation 10 be declared invalid and set aside. The Democratic Alliance is extremely pleased to see this Bill being enacted to settle the areas in this case. This Bill takes a first but crucial step in finally settling a period of untold hardship for many social grant beneficiaries that resulted from the disastrous reregistration process. Therefore the DA is pleased to be able to support it.
As provinces acted fully within the law and changes to regulations were, in effect, made retrospectively, provinces did not budget for the additional implications of regulatory change and could not have been expected to do so. Furthermore the financial implications are substantial and cannot be accommodated within current baselines. Hence the Social Grants Appropriation Bill of 2002 provides for the funding of back payments from central funds.
Therefore, subject to the Public Finance Management Act of 1999, (Act 1 of 1999), an amount of R2 billion has been appropriated out of the National Revenue Fund for the requirements of the Department of Social Development in respect of the 2001-02 financial year to fund back payments to social grant beneficiaries.
The DA is very grateful that the matter can now be fully settled and that all qualifying beneficiaries will receive the back payments. The DA therefore supports the Social Grants Appropriation Bill without reservations.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I take it, hon member, that when you say ``DA’’ you mean `DP’’. For the record, we do not have a DA in this House. [Interjections.]
Mr J O TLHAGALE: Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister, hon members of this House, the Bill before this House seeks to allocate an additional amount of R2 billion to the Department of Social Development, the purpose of which is to enable the department to accommodate more people in the payment of social grants in the current financial year.
This allocation is by no means enough to satisfy the existing needs, but it will go a long way in relieving the suffering of our people. A small bit is, in terms of our idiom, better than nothing.
The payment of this amount of money is most welcome. It means the payment of arrears to people not previously accommodated in the scheme. This will bring relief, happiness and joy to our people. This generosity is most appreciated, especially when one takes into account the economic stresses brought about by the depreciating rand.
I need to congratulate the Deputy Minister together with his Social Development colleague and to say that the UCDP supports the Bill.
Mr K D S DURR: [Interjections.] Chairperson, I get a constant barrage from this member here. Chairperson, would you please protect me from this garrulous member, who cannot stop talking … [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON (Mr M L Mushwana]: Mr Durr, you are eating into your time. [Interjections.]
Mr K D S DURR: The point is that nothing would have happened if the Black Sash had not taken the Minister to court, so we honour them for that.
I would like say to the Deputy Minister that there will be a problem with security when these people collect their back payments. When old infirm people arrive to receive very large cheques, there would be a problem of security which we might want to look at it. Perhaps staggered payments could be negotiated with individuals, even if those staggered payments are interest-bearing from the time that they apply. Possibly this option could be offered to pensioners, perhaps to be paid over a period of a year or six months, depending on the circumstances.
The question of interest would then arise, just as it would if a legitimate pensioner was deregistered in the reregistration process and then reregistrated on reapplication. In the intervening period that person might have had to borrow money to keep going over that period. So the question of interest is something that might have to be looked at.
Publicising the new measures is, of course, very important. We are delighted that we were able to receive this document from the department today which we will study as we go to our constituencies. We are grateful for that. My criticism is only that we received the scantiest of information in this case. At the time when we considered this Bill, we had not seen the regulations. I still have not seen the relevant regulations. That is very important to us as members as we go to our constituencies and advise our constituents. It would be very good if we could have the consequential regulations that will give effect to this Bill as soon as possible so that we can serve our constituents. As far as the ACDP is concerned siyahambisana nomthethosi vivinywa [we agree to the Bill].
Mr T RALANE: Chairperson, tomorrow we celebrate Human Rights Day. The rosette we are wearing is a symbol of our commitment as volunteers in the promotion of civil, social and economic rights. [Interjections.] It is not intended as a party-political ploy, but as a commitment to voluntarism. I hope that this context is understood and accepted by the House. [Applause.]
Further, every member in this House should have received a leaflet entitled ``You and the social grants’’ a few minutes ago. This leaflet was released some time ago. It contains information on various types of grants, requirements to access these grants, how long an applicant should wait before he or she receives the grants benefit, payments of grants, contact details of the various social grants offices, and, lastly, a statement on the new social grant increases with effect from 1 April 2002.
My appeal to members is that before they leave Cape Town for the Easter vacation, they should please ensure that they have a bag full of these leaflets for delivery at their constituency offices. This is our chance to make a big difference. We support the Bill. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson and hon members, once more I would really like to thank members for the overwhelming support for this particular Bill. I will make only two or three points. One of them is to say that I think this is really one of the best ways in which we can celebrate Human Rights Day, because this is not just a financial issue, but at the core of it are the human rights of the aged, the infirm and the disabled. I think that it is fundamentally a human rights issue, and, therefore, I really think that this speaks to our commitment to the issue of human rights in this country.
The other point that I would like to make is that, indeed, as the hon member Sogoni said, it is going to be important that we ensure that there is the necessary transparency, accountability and correct application of this money, so that the money is not diverted to other channels.
The issue of the protection of old people from the dangers of receiving large lump sums of money is a matter that we are fully alive to, and we did, indeed, ask that some work be done in this particular regard to look at how best these moneys can be paid to our people. And, indeed, there will be staggered payments per grant type, that is child support grants, disability and old-age grants. So, there will be some form of staggered payment. There will also be additional arrangements, and administrative care with respect to officials who will be responsible for this, but it is work in progress. There is an implementation plan that is being finalised between the provincial and national Departments of Social Development.
So, the issues that have been raised with regard to how best we can protect our people, indeed, are matters that are on hand. I think on that note we should bring to a close our response to this debate. Regarding the issue of the regulation, I think that regulations, in all cases, are secondary legislation, and the important thing is simply going to be that we give Parliament an opportunity to comment on or to have a look at whatever regulation is going to come in place in this particular regard. [Applause.] Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
BURUNDI PROTECTION SUPPORT APPROPRIATION BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee thereon)
Mr M I MAKOELA: Chairperson, the objects of the Bill before the House, namely the Burundi Protection Support Appropriation Bill, is to authorise the appropriation of an additional amount of money by the national Treasury for the requirements of the Department of Defence, to enable it to deal with the unexpected expenditure that arose from the deployment of SANDF members to Burundi.
It became necessary to follow the route of this Bill, because when the President of the Republic of South Africa, President Thabo Mbeki, in terms of the powers vested in him by the Constitution and the Defence Act, authorised, on 26 October 2001, the deployment of the protection and support services of the SANDF to Burundi, it was then already too late to accommodate the funding through the adjustment budget process usually presented to Parliament later in the relevant financial year.
Furthermore, it should also be noted that the budget of the Department of Defence, while providing for, inter alia, the preparation of the forces, does not include provision for the funding of the deployment of the forces, one of the reasons being that there are unknown costs for specific and sometimes unforeseen deployments.
Therefore, on 12 February 2002, in terms of the powers vested in him by section 16(1) of the Public Finance Management Act of 1999, the Minister of Finance authorised the use of an amount not exceeding R130 million for the Burundi deployment. This fact was also announced in the Budget Speech on 20 February 2002, after which a dedicated Appropriation Bill became necessary, as a requirement, to put the Department of Defence in a position to deal with the unexpected expenditure. The Bill before us is that Bill.
All the above-mentioned became necessary as a result of the Arusha peace and reconciliation process, as headed by the former President of the Republic of South Africa, hon Nelson Mandela, as appointed in terms of the UN Security Council Resolution 1286 of 19 January 2000, one of whose objectives is the achievement of a peaceful resolution of the conflict in Burundi, a process which, amongst other things, necessitated the deployment of a detachment of forces to protect the returning former exiled leaders of Burundi.
Complaints and negative criticism aside - because that will always abound - the South African Government, and, therefore, by implication, the whole of South Africa, as a dedicated African country, will remain forever part of the resolve to strive to work towards the forging of unity, the consolidation of solidarity, cohesion, as well as co-operation between the African people and amongst African states. Let the patriotic and progressive forces in this country, those who unwaveringly pay their total allegiance to the continent of Africa, support the Government in its endeavour to become a meaningful role-player in the pursuit of peace and stability on the continent, a requirement which is essential as part of a solid foundation for the promotion of democratic principles, the consolidation of democratic institutions and the culture of popular participation, as well as the creation of a climate that will ensure good governance, the rule of law and economic stability, that will, in turn, result in the realisation of the objectives of Nepad.
Mnr P A MATTHEE: Voorsitter, alle moontlike pogings moet aangewend word om oplossings te vind vir die interne konflikte wat ongelukkig nog in ‘n aantal lande op ons vasteland bestaan. Nie net is dit die regte ding om te doen nie, maar dit is ook in die beste belang van al ons burgers, en daarom moet ons as Suid-Afrikaners bereid wees om ons rol volledig in hierdie verband te speel.
Watter beter voorbeeld kan daar vir ons as Suid-Afrikaners, maar ook vir die res van die wêreld, wees as ons vorige President, die agb mnr Nelson Mandela? Ons wil hom vandag opnuut salueer vir sy voortgesette onbaatsugtige diens, nie net aan Suid-Afrika en al sy mense nie, maar ook aan al die mense van ons vasteland Afrika.
Ons van die Nuwe NP steun dan ook graag hierdie wetgewing, en ons wil die hoop uitspreek dat die teenwoordigheid van ons militêre personeel daar ‘n werklike effektiewe en positiewe rol sal kan speel om ook uiteindelik werklike en standhoudende vrede in Burundi te bring. Ons wil ook, vanuit hierdie Raad, ‘n boodskap stuur na al ons soldate en ons militêre personeel wat daar ontplooi is, en vir hulle sê dat hulle in ons gedagtes is, en dat hulle moet weet dat hulle ten alle tye ons volle ondersteuning het. Ons wil hulle verseker van die groot en belangrike werk wat hulle doen, nie net in belang van Afrika en al sy mense nie, maar ook in belang van elkeen van ons, en elkeen van ons kiesers. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.) [Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, every possible attempt must be made to find solutions to the internal conflicts which unfortunately still exist in a number of countries on our continent. Not only is this the right thing to do, but it is also in the best interests of all our citizens, and therefore we as South Africans must be prepared to play our role fully in this regard.
What better example can there be for us as South Africans, but also for the rest of the world, than our former President, the hon Mr Nelson Mandela? We once again want to salute him today for his continued selfless service, not only to South Africa and all its people, but also to all the people on the continent of Africa.
We in the New NP also take pleasure in supporting this legislation, and we want to convey the hope that the presence of our military personnel there will be able to play a really effective and positive role in ultimately bringing real and lasting peace to Burundi. We also want to send, from this Council, a message to all our soldiers and our military personnel who are deployed there, and say to them that they are in our thoughts, and that they must know that they have our full support at all times. We want to assure them of the great and important work they are doing, not only in the interests of Africa and all its people, but also in the interests of each one of us, and each one of our voters. [Applause.]]
Mr R M NYAKANE: Chairperson, the quest for unity amongst African societies
was first propounded by Kwame Nkruma, the Osagyefo, the Redeemer'', and
president of Ghana, the black Star of Africa, who once said, The Ghanian
independence would have no meaning until the whole Africa shares our
victory and our freedom.’’
The political developments occasioned by the impact of the colonial regimes on independent Africa have fostered the spirit of nationalism in Africa, the spirit that has prompted the emergence of movements such as the OAU, the Non-Aligned Movement, MAP, SADC, etc. These movements, of which South Africa forms part, embody the aspirations, hopes and quests of African societies to live in harmony and security. It is therefore in this spirit that this House finds itself today engaged in deliberations of this nature.
A record of success in monitoring peace by the military is the well - known factor in Africa. The role played by the Ecowas during 1998 to resolve the Liberian civil conflict, and the successful mediation for the restoration of peace in Guinea Bissau are cases in point.
Burundi is beset today by armed conflict and political insecurity.
The efforts by former President Nelson Mandela to persuade the 19 political parties to sign the peace agreement should be noted by this House with great commendation. Complete peace could not be possible since the rebel groups, that is the Forces for the Defence of Democracy and the National Liberation Forces, refused to take part in the Arusha negotiations. However, an interim arrangement was reached, whereby a transitional government was established and started functioning on 1 November 2001. Alternate terms for the presidency position between the Tutsis and Hutus were also agreed upon.
However, one stumbling block still remained. This concerns issues regarding the stability of the Burundi army. It is for this reason that a need for international peace-keeping forces became eminent. It was therefore resolved that Ghana, Nigeria, Senegal and South Africa should supply peace- keeping forces to Burundi; hence our engagement in today’s Burundi Protection Support Appropriation Bill, which the UDM supports without reservations. [Applause.]
Mr J L THERON: Chairperson and hon Deputy Minister, in terms of UN Security Council Resolution 1286 of 2000 of 19 January 2000, the appointment of former President Nelson Mandela as the new facilitator of the Arusha peace and reconciliation process, to achieve a peaceful solution to the conflict in Burundi, was strongly supported. Resulting from the above, the Department of Defence entered into negotiations with the former Burundi government to deploy a protection detachment to protect returning exiled leaders to Burundi in October 2001.
Despite initial indications that Ghana, Senegal and Nigeria would be involved in providing troops, it is not anticipated that this will happen in the near future. The SA National Defence Force will therefore be involved in this operation for the best part of the 2002-03 financial year, for at least eight months. The international community has made pledges amounting to R294 million, of which R17,6 million has been received. Agreements with the European Union, Belgium and the Netherlands have been finalised, while the agreement with the United Kingdom is at an advanced stage.
It is essential for any responsible country, when having to decide on its military force design, first to formulate its own political objectives, which in turn can only be determined by taking into account its country’s political vision, philosophy, policies and strategies. Since 1994 Africa has come to the forefront for South Africa, and it was essential for us to decide on the geo-political importance of the various African countries to South Africa.
There are three basic questions which should be asked: In the first place, which countries or territorial areas are of vital importance to South Africa? Secondly, which countries have a direct influence on South Africa? Thirdly, which countries are of interest to us?
Surely the countries that are of vital importance and have a direct influence on South Africa are the SADC countries. Here we should play an active role to ensure peace and stability and economic growth, but South Africa cannot be responsible for the whole of Africa and all its problems.
In future we will have to determine our role very carefully and strategically. In the meantime our troops are there, where they are to be accommodated, fed and paid allowances and provided with various other support services. We cannot renege on our commitment but we request that proper estimates and plans be made to ensure that for the future we have the military resources and funds to get involved in these external operations.
The DA, as represented here by the DP, supports the Bill.
Mr J O TLHAGALE: Mr Chairperson, hon Deputy Minister and hon House, before commenting on the appropriation Bill, one needs to focus on the merits of stationing a South African contingent of soldiers in Burundi. In terms of the Bill, the purpose of stationing them there is to provide protection and support services to returning opposition leaders participating in the transitional government of the Republic of Burundi. This means they are not stationed there for combat or for waging war on the side of some party there. Their mission is to engender peace, which is a scarce commodity nowadays.
As in the case of other countries, the task comes to us as our responsibility in terms of our neighbourliness to the affected place. Traditionally speaking, neighbours are very important people to those in their close proximity, and are traditionally bound to rally to the assistance of their neighbours in case of any eventuality. The Burundi contingent of soldiers is based on that principle.
The appropriation of funds for the purposes outlined above is necessary and in the interests of neighbourliness. The UCDP supports the appropriation Bill. [Applause.]
Mr T B TAABE: Chairperson, Deputy Minister of Finance, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, as hon members of this House know the protection support requirement in respect of the Bill we are passing today came about through the Arusha Accords and the reconciliation processes in the region. This was given further substance, obviously, when our former President made a passionate plea to all South Africans from all walks of life to explore the possibility of our providing much-needed military support for the peace initiatives in Burundi.
It is therefore important that we contribute in a practical way and forge ahead with the objective of making South Africa an integral part of the processes of uplifting the continent of Africa, given the kind of problems we have faced as a continent in the past, and thus effectively contributing to the success of Nepad.
However, there is a point that I need to address. For hon members, albeit those who support this Bill, then to begin to create the impression that one has the kind of countries in Africa that are less important to South Africa politically, is, I think, completely wrong. No country is of lesser importance than South Africa on the continent. To begin to think along such lines, I think, is sheer political gibberish and utter political claptrap at its worst. [Laughter.]
As members have touched on other very important issues, which I thought I was going to talk about, I do not think it will be important for me to do so, except to say that I hope hon members will realise that the general situation in Burundi is one that is very violent and indeed uncertain. There is armed conflict and political insecurity, despite the noble initiatives taken by our leaders, which have led to the Arusha Accords. We must then follow up, in a very practical way, on the work done by Mwalimu Nyerere, Comrade Nelson Mandela and indeed our very own Deputy President, Comrade Jacob Zuma.
The point has to be made again that the kind of civil war that has been going on in that country, combined with the drought, has already created an alarming humanitarian crisis. One more death in that country is one too many. This country is one of the poorest in Africa. The situation in Burundi is even worse now, given the manner in which the scourge of Aids has seriously ravaged communities in that country.
The people of Burundi deserve our support in every way possible and imaginable. We therefore cannot understand, as I have just said, the kind of brouhaha the hon Theron raises regarding the issue of which country is politically less important and whatnot. [Laughter.] I cannot understand this uproar. Therefore support for this Bill on the part of the ANC, is not only desirable …
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Would you take your seat, hon member.
Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, will the hon member please take a question?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Hon member, are you prepared to take a question? [Interjections.]
Mr T B TAABE: I am willing to take a question from the hon member.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Mr Raju, you cannot ask a question. Mr Taabe, will you finish your speech?
Mr T B TAABE: I said I was willing to take a question from the hon Raju. The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Are you prepared to take a question, Mr Taabe?
Mr N M RAJU: The hon member has quite rightly spoken about the spirit of Arusha and the spirit of the importance of neighbouring countries. Will the hon member agree that that megalomaniac Robert Mugabe across the Limpopo is an embarrassment to the spirit of Arusha and to the spirit of co-operation on the continent?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, can you address the question and finish your speech.
Mr T B TAABE: Chair, honestly, as much as I would have loved to respond to the question from the hon member out of the respect I have for the elderly, I unfortunately do not have the time for such balderdash. [Laughter.]
The point I was making is that, on the part of the ANC, support for this Bill is not only desirable, but has become an absolute necessity. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I call upon the hon the Deputy Minister to defuse the situation and to respond.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, I think the situation does need defusing. Thank you very much, Chairperson, and thank you to the members again for their support for this Bill. I must say that we cannot but support our former President, Nelson Mandela, in the valiant efforts that he has made to create a basis for lasting peace in Burundi.
To add one thing to the points raised by the hon Nyakane, I think all of the examples he cited affirm that our future and fate must rest first and foremost with us as Africans. We must see this as part of the process of ensuring that we take charge of our own destiny as Africans, because it is only on that basis that other parts of the world can meaningfully partner with us in whatever we try to do. If we are not willing to take responsibility as Africans for our own problems and difficulties, it is very difficult for other people to come into partnership with us in a meaningful way.
I suppose it is fine to raise the issues brought up by the hon Theron, because there are many reasons for questions such as those to be posed. We are accountable to our people, so we must be able to explain the things we do and why we go where we do. At the same time, I do not believe that there is yet cause for alarm regarding the deployment of the SA National Defence Force. Firstly, because we have deployments in the DRC, we have deployments in Burundi. That is all part of the Great Lakes region. It is an area of strategic importance to South Africa.
The Great Lakes region is important, both from the point of view of establishing peace and stability on the continent, and from the point of view of the economic progress and recovery of the continent. The wealth that resides in those Great Lakes makes that area important. Somebody - I cannot quite recall right now who - said that the next world war would be fought over water. That person had in mind the Great Lakes region, because there is an abundance of water in that part of the world.
But I must say that we have also seen horrendous events in the Great Lakes region. We have seen a war with the greatest number ever of participating African countries. We have also seen genocide in Rwanda, something that we would not like to see again. To have troop deployments in Burundi therefore becomes part of that process of ensuring that we can bring stability and create the basis, substantially, for sustainable peace and for economic recovery and political stability in that particular region. I do not believe that there is cause for alarm right now.
Perhaps an additional point to be made is that we must not fool ourselves into thinking that the implementation of Nepad is going to be easy. It is actually going to be very difficult and a great challenge to many countries. It is too soon, really, to start moaning now. There is still a very, very long way ahead. In a sense, this is a struggle, a long-term struggle, for political stability on the continent and for peace and security. It is a long-term struggle for economic progress and development on our continent. We really must not think that it is going to be easy to do the things that are contained in the New Partnership for Africa’s Development.
Conflict, however, is on the decline and democracy on the rise on the African continent. I think we have to bolster that process. We have to make sure that this progress that we are making, this trend which is seeing a decline in conflict and a rise in democracy on our continent, is strengthened. We must also see this as part of that. [Interjections.]
In conclusion, I just would like to try to address the question that was addressed to Mr Taabe by the hon member Mr Raju. I want to make reference to the fact that, yes, Zimbabwe has been suspended from the Commonwealth for a period of 12 months. There are a number of things that the Commonwealth statement makes reference to. Firstly, it refers to the fact that it is going to be important to ensure that there is reconciliation in Zimbabwe, that there is a recognition of the deep polarisation that has taken place there and that there is a need for the main political forces to work together for the economic recovery, deal with some of the challenges facing the country and together try to resolve issues such as the management of future elections in Zimbabwe. That is one of the issues raised by that statement.
The other issue raised by that statement is that the land issue is at the heart of the crisis in Zimbabwe and that the world will have to co-operate with Zimbabwe to ensure that a sustainable, transparent way of dealing with the land problem is addressed, because it will never go away. It will remain part of the problems of Zimbambwe. Really, as a neighbour looking at the issues of Zimbabwe, we must be concerned about them.
I therefore would not want to answer the question in direct terms and say that President Robert Mugabe is an embarrassment, but would rather raise the wider issues that have also been highlighted in the Commonwealth statement, namely that we really need to engage in a process. They even proposed that the Presidents of South Africa and Nigeria should remain engaged in seeking to find a solution and that they must appoint special representatives who will pay particular attention to dealing with the issues in Zimbabwe.
I think that it is important for us to know these things and to have this wider perspective, because, at the end of the day, it is not in our interests to see a collapse in Zimbabwe, because we shall bear the brunt of such an economic collapse. We must be aware of all these issues that need to addressed in Zimbabwe.
I thank hon members for their support. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT - LEGAL AID GUIDE, 2001
Chief M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, I would like to start off by thanking the powers that be for making sure that I am the last speaker in this quarter of our session. I know that this was deliberate. [Laughter.]
For many decades, in South Africa, the legal aid services have been underutilised by poor South Africans, either because they were unaware of the services or because the system did not clearly define who qualified for state legal representation.
We therefore present this guide, which has been compiled especially for the sake of ordinary South Africans, as our Constitution provides for equality before the law. The Legal Aid Board has accepted the task of, within its means, balancing the scales of justice in an independent and impartial manner. This guide provides that only deserving people should benefit from legal aid. The test used in this guide relates to the overall situation of the parties. It may well be that a person has an income sufficiently low, in terms of this guide, to qualify for assistance because, for example, he or she lost his or her job.
Other factors, however, also play a role as the guide also refers to other means or his or her resources. It may be possible for the applicant to use his or her other assets to raise what is required to pay for legal representation. This means that granting legal aid to a wealthy person who has an income would be unfair to the indigent or needy applicants.
This guide addresses these situations and states that legal aid must be refused unless there are good reasons for the CEO’s agreeing to offer it. The Legal Aid Board is required to determine where substantial injustice would otherwise result, that is, where an accused is not provided with legal representation as provided by section 35 of our Constitution.
Therefore the board listed some areas of importance as criteria. These are in cases where the accused could not offer the cost of his or her own legal representation; where the accused would, if convicted, probably receive a sentence of imprisonment of which the unsuspended portion would be more than three months without the option of a fine; where, if given the option of a fine, such fine would remain unpaid for two weeks after the imposition of the sentence; or where adequate legal representation would make a material difference to the prospects of the accused’s receiving a fair trial.
In this regard, it is necessary to take into account the personal circumstances of the person concerned; the nature and gravity of the charges; whether any other legal representation at state expense is available or has been provided; and/or any factor which the CEO or a court may direct a legal aid officer to take into account. The committee would like to reiterate its commitment to the rural communities of this country by appealing to the Legal Aid Board to extend its services to the rural communities because it is the rural communities who suffer the plight of injustice more than many of the other people in the country.
This guide therefore replaces all previous guides and circulars, and it reflects a carefully designed legal framework which seeks to create a balance between competing interests in this regard. This committee therefore welcomes this Legal Aid Guide and supports it in toto.
I now humbly, on behalf of the committee, the Minister and the Government, put before hon members the Legal Aid Guide for this House’s endorsement.
Debate concluded.
Report adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The Council adjourned at 15:25. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Council of Provinces:
- The Chairperson:
(1) Bills passed by National Council of Provinces on 20 March 2002:
To be submitted to President of the Republic for assent:
(i) Social Grants Appropriation Bill [B 9 - 2002] (National
Assembly - sec 77).
(ii) Burundi Protection Support Appropriation Bill [B 10 -
2002] (National Assembly - sec 77).
TABLINGS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Foreign Affairs:
Strategic Plan for the Department of Foreign Affairs for 2002-2005.
- The Minister of Defence:
(a) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
and the Government of the State of Qatar concerning Co-operation
in the Military Field, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(b) Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the
Republic of South Africa and the Government of the People's
Republic of China concerning Defence Co-operation, tabled in terms
of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.
(c) Arrangement between the Department of Defence of the Republic of
South Africa and the Minister of Foreign Affairs of the
Netherlands, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(d) Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the
Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of
Burundi concerning the South African Mission in Support of the
Implementation of the Arusha Peace and Reconciliation Agreement
for Burundi, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(e) Specific Arrangement between the Government of the Republic of
South Africa and the Kingdom of Belgium on The Funding of the
South African Protection Support Detachment in Support of the
Implementation of the Arusha Peace and Reconciliation Agreement
for Burundi, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
(f) Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the
Republic of South Africa and the United Nations contributing
Resources to the "Mission de l'Organisation des Nations Unies au
Congo" (MONUC), tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the
Constitution, 1996.
COMMITTEE REPORTS:
National Assembly:
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on the Copyright Amendment Bill [B 73B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 20 March 2002:
The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, having considered the Copyright Amendment Bill [B 73B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75) and proposed amendments of the National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 238), referred to the Committee, reports the Bill with amendments [B 73C
- 2001], as follows:
CLAUSE 3
-
On page 3, in line 18, after “user” to insert “performer”.
-
On page 3, after line 37, to add:
(3) In the event of any right to a royalty being assigned to any
successor in title, either by contractual arrangement, operation
of law, testamentary disposition or otherwise, any successor in
title shall be entitled to enforce such right to a royalty
against the person who in terms of this section is obliged to
pay or against his or her successor in title.
Report to be considered.
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on the Performers’ Protection Amendment Bill [B 74B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 20 March 2002:
The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, having considered the Performers’ Protection Amendment Bill [B 74B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec 75) and proposed amendments of the National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, p 238), referred to the Committee, reports the Bill with amendments [B 74C - 2001], as follows:
CLAUSE 3
-
On page 4, in line 1, to omit “or his or her successor in title”.
-
On page 4, after line 14, to add:
(1) In the event of any right to a royalty being assigned to any
successor in title, either by contractual arrangement, operation
of law, testamentary disposition or otherwise, any successor in
title shall be entitled to enforce such right to a royalty
against the person who in terms of this section is obliged to
pay or against his or her successor in title.
Report to be considered.
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Division of Revenue Bill [B 5D - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 76), dated 20 March 2002:
The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the Division of Revenue Bill [B 5D - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 76), amended by the National Council of Provinces and referred to the Committee, reports that it has agreed to the Bill. Report to be considered.
-
Report of the Portfolio Committee on Housing on the Disestablishment of South African Housing Trust Limited Bill [B 3 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 20 March 2002:
The Portfolio Committee on Housing, having considered the subject of the Disestablishment of South African Housing Trust Limited Bill [B 3 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 3A - 2002].