THURSDAY, 16 MAY 2002 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 14:04.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek gee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van die Raad sal voorstel:

Dat die Raad kennis neem dat -

(1) die DA na verwagting meer as R250 000 sal moet opdok aan skadevergoeding, regskoste en rente nadat ‘n stadsraadlid van Bronkhorstspruit ‘n lastereis oor ‘n smeerveldtog teen die DA gewen het;

(2) die eis spruit uit ‘n pamflet met lasterlike bewerings oor me Caren de Jager, ondervoorsitter van die Inwonersforum (Citizens Forum), wat die DA voor die munisipale verkiesing versprei het;

(3) regter Piet van der Walt in sy uitspraak gesê het die agterkant van die pamflet is ``nie net lasterlik nie, dit is erg lasterlik’’; en

(4) die Nuwe NP hom distansieer van dié soort smeerveldtogte deur die DA. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move: That the Council notes that -

(1) it is estimated that the DA will have to cough up more than R250 000 in compensation for damages, legal fees and interest after a member of the Bronkhortstspruit council won a libel case against the DA after a smear campaign;

(2) the claim is the result of a pamphlet containing defamatory allegations about Ms Caren de Jager, deputy chairperson of the Citizens Forum, distributed by the DA prior to the municipal elections;

(3) Judge Piet van der Walt said in his judgment that the reverse side of the pamphlet ``is not only defamatory, but very defamatory”; and

(4) the New NP distances itself from this type of smear campaign by the DA.]

Mr K D S DURR: Chairman, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) notes yesterday’s election victory and the landslide swing to the Christian Democrats in the Netherlands where they on 15 May 2002 achieved a decisive victory over the ruling Labour Party Coalition, winning 40 of 150 seats of the parliament of the Netherlands;

(2) notes that this signifies, inter alia, that many voters in the Netherlands are fed up with the excessive secular humanist agenda of the left and wish to see a return to family and traditional values; and

(3) congratulates the Christian Democrats and wishes the new coalition government to be formed in the Netherlands well.

Mnr J L THERON: Voorsitter, ek gee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting sal voorstel: Dat die Raad -

(1) kennis neem dat president Mbeki amnestie verleen het aan gewelddadige misdadigers aan wie die WVK nie amnestie verleen het nie;

(2) die vraag opper of daar nou ‘n ``agterdeur’‘-blanko algemene amnestie gaan wees; en

(3) president Mbeki versoek om duidelikheid in dié verband te verskaf en die vraag te beantwoord hoe ‘n algemene amnestie kan voldoen aan die beginsel van gelykheid voor die reg aangesien amnestie deur die WVK verleen aan streng maatstawwe moes voldoen. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr J L THERON: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move:

That the Council - (1) notes that President Mbeki granted amnesty to violent criminals to whom the TRC did not grant amnesty;

(2) raises the question whether there will now be a ``back door’’ blanket general amnesty; and

(3) requests President Mbeki to give clarity in this regard and to answer the question how a general amnesty can meet the principle of equality before the law, as amnesty granted by the TRC had to meet stringent criteria.]

Dr E A CONROY: Voorsitter, ek gee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van die Raad sal voorstel:

Dat die Raad kennis neem van die krimpende steun wat die DA in die Wes- Kaap geniet, met spesifieke verwysing na die tussenverkiesing op 15 Mei in Hermanus Overstrand waar sy steun:

 (1)    in Wyk 2 met 70,9% van 1 832 stemme in 2000 tot 533  op  15  Mei
     verminder het; en

[Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day I shall move:

That the Council takes note of the diminishing support the DA enjoys in the Western Cape, with specific reference to the 15 May by-election in Hermanus Overstrand where its support -

(1) decreased by 70,9% in Ward 2 from 1 832 votes in 2000 to 533 votes on 15 May; and]

[Interjections.]]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Go on, hon member.

Dr E A CONROY:

(2) in Wyk 4 met 45,4% van 1 384 stemme in 2000 tot 756 op 15 Mei verminder het. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[(2) decreased by 45,4% in Ward 4 from 1 384 votes in 2000 to 756 votes on 15 May.]]

Me E C GOUWS: Voorsitter, ek gee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van die Raad sal voorstel:

Dat die Raad -

(1) kennis neem van die feit dat gesondheidsdienste in die Oos-Kaap sistematies besig is om in duie te stort, soos blyk uit -

   (a)  die herhaaldelike versuim om fondse aan  hospitale  en  klinieke
       oor te betaal, waardeur die personeel in  'n  onbenydenswaardige
       posisie geplaas en pasiënte in lewensgevaar gelaat word;


   (b)  die onderbesteding van verlede jaar se  begroting  vir  MIV/Vigs
       asook die versuim om vir dié doel gereeld fondse in die rekening
       van die Universiteit van Fort Hare oor te betaal;


   (c)  die versuim om vakante poste vir gesondheidswerkers te vul; en


   (d)  die onvermoë om gesondheidswerkers opnuut op te lei en  vir  die
       diens in die provinsie te behou; en

(2) ‘n beroep doen op die nasionale Minister van Gesondheid om onverwyld in te gryp in die Oos-Kaap waar menselewens op die spel is. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Ms E C GOUWS: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:

That the Council -

(1) notes the fact that health services in the Eastern Cape are collapsing systematically, as is evident from -

   (a)  the repeated failure to transfer funds to hospitals and clinics,
       thereby placing staff in  an  unenviable  position  and  leaving
       patients in danger of their lives;


   (b)  the underspending on last year's budget for HIV/Aids as well  as
       the failure regularly to transfer funds in this  regard  to  the
       account of Fort Hare University;


   (c)  the failure to fill vacant posts for health workers; and


   (d)  the inability to retrain health workers and retain them for  the
       service in the province; and

(2) appeals to the national Minister of Health to intervene in the Eastern Cape at once, because people’s lives are at stake there.]

              KILLING OF DIEPKLOOF POLICE COMMISSIONER

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes with sadness and shock the killing of the Commissioner of the Diepkloof Police Station, Senior Superintendent Elias Mashau, by a prisoner on Saturday, 11 May 2002;

(2) strongly condemns this mindless attack on a police officer;

(3) expresses condolences to his family, his colleagues and the communities which are affected by his death; and (4) calls on the authorities to launch a thorough investigation into the incident so as to bring the perpetrators to book.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                         THEFT AT GOLD MINES

                         (Draft Resolution)

Ms E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes with concern the scale of gold theft which was highlighted last week when police seized more than half a ton of gold dust during a raid on a mineworkers’ hostel in Thabong, Welkom, in the Free State;

(2) further notes that thieves steal about 35 tons of pure gold at a value of nearly R2 billion from South African mines every year; (3) also notes that a study by the Institute for Security Studies in Cape Town has highlighted that the total working profit for South Africa’s gold mines in 1998 would have been 33,3% higher had there been watertight security;

(4) believes that international crime syndicates should be dealt with in co-operation with other international agencies; and

(5) therefore resolves that the only way to root out this crime is for governments across the world to attack the illegal gold market itself rather than to depend on the police to catch the criminals at lower levels of these syndicates.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

INCREASED DEMAND FOR AIR TRAVEL BETWEEN JOHANNESBURG AND RICHARD’S BAY

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) applauds the South African Airways for rendering a very good service to the community;

(2) notes that owing to the fast-growing industries in Empangeni, Richard’s Bay and the surrounding areas, Flight 1607 from Johannesburg to Richard’s Bay is always full;

(3) further notes that frequent flyers are facing the problem of being left behind now and again;

(4) also notes that according to SAA the runway at the Richard’s Bay Airport is too small to accommodate bigger aircraft; and

(5) therefore requests SAA, as a priority measure, to address this problem encountered by members who fly frequently to serve the communities in this area.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                  ANC VICTORY IN HANTAM BY-ELECTION

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr G A LUCAS: Mr Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes the overwhelming victory for the ANC registered in the municipal by-election yesterday in the Hantam Municipality, formerly known as Calvinia;

(2) further notes the dismal performance of the DA in this by-election … [Interjections.]

   ... which clearly demonstrates the outright rejection of  this  party
   by the people of the Northern Cape; and

(3) also notes that the confidence our people have in the ANC is a reflection of the correctness of our policies.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Is there any objection to the motion? The motion is objected to. In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with and the motion without notice will now become notice of a motion.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 17 - Housing:

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I take this opportunity to welcome the hon the Minister of Housing, and in particular also to welcome the various MECs and special delegates. I call upon the hon the Minister to address the House. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Chairperson, hon MECs from the provinces, special delegates and members, the housing policy has evolved from a crude and ready instrument to tackle the impending catastrophe of homelessness into a comprehensive instrument that forges meaningful partnerships between communities and Government. We still have a long way to go in meeting the task of wiping out the housing backlog and creating meaningful human settlements, but we believe that this year’s budget has shifted gears towards the quality of programme we believe our people expect.

Housing subsidies are one of Government’s main instruments to address the legacy of poverty and inequality. The national housing subsidy programme has proved to be very effective in serving as an instrument of social upliftment. On the other hand, it has become a demand-side market intervention to increase effective demand for housing goods and services.

The subsidy has provided an equity base against which to gear private resources in the form of sweat equity, savings and loans. There is no doubt that the aims of providing subsidy assistance have, within the available resources, largely been met. The national housing subsidy programme, introduced in 1994 on a project-linked subsidy basis only, has evolved into a comprehensive instrument providing a wide array of housing subsidies to a broad spectrum of eligible beneficiaries.

The programme has allowed for a range of tenure options on an individual or group basis in urban areas, and was later enhanced to include families in rural areas who have functional security of tenure in terms of the Interim Protection of Informal Land Rights Act of 1996. Highlights of the subsidy programme, as at the end of the financial year 2001-2002, include, firstly, the approval of more than 1,4 million housing subsidies, the construction of more than 1,35 million houses and the Government’s investment of more than R18 billion since 1994.

Our change of focus from quantity to quality has managed to produce better housing in many provinces, especially through the people’s housing process. We have always thought that this change in delivery strategy could affect the pace of delivery in some provinces, but it has not. We have indeed proved our capability to deliver adequate shelter to the poor. Our delivery rate of 322 000 dwelling units per annum, which was achieved during 1997, could have been sustained or even accelerated if physical constraints did not limit the housing budget to around R3 billion per annum.

The increase in the budget this year and in the next two financial years should help us improve on the quality of houses. Owing to the manner in which state functions are currently structured, funds that support housing development are not channelled through a single window, but are appropriated under several Votes. For instance, financial support to poor communities is provided under the Consolidated Municipal Infrastructure Programme under the Department of Local Government Vote, whereas the water and sanitation programme of the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry finances the capital cost of services for which provision is also included under the National Housing Subsidy Programme.

I would be failing in my duties if I did not also indicate the challenges we face. A number of our policy instruments are still relatively new, and their full positive impact is still to be felt at grass-roots levels. This is especially the case in rural areas where development has sometimes been retarded on account of tenure uncertainty and capacity constraints. Then there is the problem of the slow transfer of land and delays in township establishment procedures, sometimes owing to capacity constraints at local government level. The re-emergence of the problem of underspending in some of the provinces indicates capacity difficulties at provincial and local government levels.

Four provinces experienced unacceptable underspending levels during the past year. These provinces are the Eastern Cape, the Free State, Gauteng and Mpumalanga. However, amounts of R80 million for Gauteng and R58,9 million for Mpumalanga can be attributed to the funds earmarked for the Jobs Summit project, whose negotiations at national level between Housing and Treasury were completed only towards the end of December 2001. These funds are expected to flow during the early parts of the current financial year.

Key reasons for the underspending in the provinces can be given as follows in the Eastern Cape the province received R508 million, and spent R293,2 million, underspending by 42,3%. The initiative to utilise SMMEs for the construction of houses worth about R80 million on 23 787 sites, serviced in the financial year 2001-02, has not materialised because of the slow process of transferring the serviced sites into the names of the beneficiaries. The late approval of rapid land-release projects and adverse weather conditions also affected the timeous payment of approximately R100 million.

The Free State received R251,8 million and spent R146,3 million. That means underspending is at R105,5 million or 41,9%. There are a number of reasons for this, such as the difficulty in obtaining title deed numbers to process progress payments four and five. A factor contributing to underexpenditure is delays at the Deeds Office in registration of title deeds. The national Department of Housing is in a process with other government departments, such as Land Affairs, to improve interdepartmental communication in respect of matters of this nature which might have an influence on matters inhibiting the execution of housing programmes.

Gauteng received R797,9 million and spent R576,2 million, which left them with an underexpenditure of R191,7 million. The underexpenditure is equivalent to 25%, the bulk of which was money allocated for the Jobs Summit projects which have been slightly delayed because of the negotiations between the Department of Housing and the Treasury.

Other reasons include the following. A number of new projects only commenced during the 2001-02 financial year and it was foreseen that expenditure thereon would materialise late in the financial year. Most of the newly established local authorities are experiencing capacity problems in managing housing projects as a result of restructuring processes. The requirements of the National Environmental Management Act delay all new projects by at least three months.

Mpumalanga has 19,1% underexpenditure, the bulk of which is the money allocated for the Jobs Summit projects which have also been slightly delayed. The rest of the provinces manage to spend all their allocations with some of them even exceeding their budgets. KwaZulu-Natal only underspent by 4,8%.

When it comes to human settlement redevelopment grant spending by provinces, the late approval of business plans of projects prevented provinces from commencing with the implementation as anticipated and, consequently, provinces were prevented from starting the implementation of the projects as anticipated in the business plans.

In view of the aforementioned, it is anticipated that capital expenditure will improve as from April this year. The expenditure pattern of the provinces will be monitored closely and, if necessary, the same approaches followed with the housing fund grant will have to be followed in respect of human settlement grants.

Conveyancers do not diligently ensure that transfers take place as planned. The subsidy implementation guidelines prescribe that top structures be constructed on sites which have been registered and transferred to beneficiaries. The prescribed payments are consequently delayed. A number of provinces experience problems with conveyancers who are not diligent enough in processing transfers of ownership to beneficiaries.

Too often, the conduct of those in the conveyancing profession has been a major stumbling block in the housing delivery process. Also, there is a total lack of capacity in some of these professionals to deal with intricate conveyancing processes within appropriate legal frameworks, for example applications approved in terms of the Development Facilitation Act, Act No 67 of 1995.

Provinces with such problems should establish a provincial database of conveyancers with the demonstrated ability to deliver within the strict timeframes described. All applicants will be required to utilise professionals listed on the database. Provincial housing departments should empower municipalities with regard to managing their relationships with conveyancers.

An amendment to the Act to alleviate this problem should be fast-tracked as a matter of urgency. This matter is being discussed by the Department of Housing, the Department of Provincial and Local Government and Salga. Approval of applications for deviations from policy for deserving cases affected by problems has been made for the Eastern Cape and approved by Cabinet.

While there have been genuine constraints during implementation processes, it should also be acknowledged that, in most instances, underspending happens because of poor performance by developers. There could be a number of reasons for this, namely poor management of community dynamic; labour- related problems; and poor planning and management of projects and availability and accessibility of bulk infrastructure.

One of the legal technical issues detrimentally affecting the process flow in the housing delivery cycle is section 118 of the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act. It relates to the issuing of rates clearance certificates in terms of the Act by municipalities in order to allow for transfer of ownership to be registered by the Registrar of Deeds. If transfer of property cannot take place, progress payments four and five are delayed. Not only the phrasing of the relevant section, but also the interpretation and implementation thereof have had serious delaying effects on housing delivery.

The Act requires that all outstanding payments due to municipalities be paid up before the clearance certificate is issued for the transfer of property. Most of the beneficiaries of the housing subsidy grant, especially the in situ upgrading, have outstanding rates due to municipalities. The Department of Provincial and Local Government has undertaken to amend this legislation during this current year.

Some of the requirements of the National Environmental Management Act have also affected the speed of delivery in housing projects. Approval procedures for environmental impact assessments have been very slow. Gauteng is one of the provinces greatly affected by this legislation. It is a matter that needs to be speedily addressed among the provinces and the relevant departments.

A number of provinces have experienced persistent heavy rainfalls, which originally were not factored into the planning process. While this led to a high demand for emergency shelter, it, however, also had a negative impact on housing delivery. Closer co-operation between the provincial and local spheres of government is also critical in order to achieve a realistic housing delivery process. Formalised interaction should occur on a regular basis between municipal housing delivery components and their provincial counterparts.

At provincial level, political oversight of the delivery processes should be strengthened. The integrated development plan, co-ordinated by the Department of Provincial and Local Government, should also focus on housing needs. Integrated Development Plans will go a long way towards ensuring that housing delivery happens within integrated planning processes.

Problems with bulk infrastructure and community issues are better planned for within integrated planning processes. Improved co-ordination between Salga, the Departments of Provincial and Local Government, Land Affairs and Housing should be encouraged with respect to development of policies and legislation working against their delivery. An example is section 118 mentioned above.

The national office intends visiting underperforming provinces twice yearly for close monitoring of expenditure. The main focus of the 2002 and 2003 provincial capacity-building programmes is to ensure that they are aligned to both provincial and national housing priorities. Training should be focused on both strategic and operational interventions to meet the needs at each level. The main emphasis of the intervention is at the local government level.

Each province has been allocated an amount of R1,1 million, with the exception of the Northern Cape, which has been allocated an amount of R1,2 million. The total amount allocated to all provinces for housing capacity- building in 2002-03 is, therefore, R10 million. This money has been allocated directly by national Treasury to the respective provinces.

The national Department of Housing, in conjunction with all provinces, conducted the following activities. Firstly, in July 2001, research was conducted to determine provincial capacity-building gaps. This was followed with workshops with all provincial housing departments to discuss the outcomes of the research.

Secondly, there is a need for an ongoing impact assessment of capacity- building interventions to establish their effect on the delivery of housing. It needs to be mentioned in this regard that the department developed guidelines for provinces in respect of impact evaluation and all provinces have included impact evaluations in their plans.

Thirdly, most of the issues raised above will be addressed in a medium to long-term plan. The department is at present finalising a strategy on housing capacity-building that will deal with the medium to long-term issues. This report will only focus on the programmes that are to be implemented in the financial year 2002-03.

From a policy perspective, criticism indicates that too much emphasis was initially placed on ownership. This is understandable when viewed against the background of past deprivation of property rights affecting the majority of the population. However, a more balanced approach was required, hence recent initiatives to normalise the rental housing market and promote alternative tenure options.

The lack of a comprehensive rental housing policy has been recognised as a shortcoming and a process has been initiated to fulfil this need. The Rental Housing Act of 1999 has been adopted, and the Social Housing Foundation has been statutorily recognised and mandated to promote the concept of co-operative housing and to assist in the establishment of institutions to hold and manage housing stock on a sustainable basis.

The national Presidential Jobs Summit will inform the process of establishing rental housing policy. Various options of providing rental housing, based on a holistic, viable and sustainable process of integrated community development, will be tested. The department has finalised the drafting of social housing policy, which will constitute a great part of our drive in promoting rental housing.

The hostel redevelopment programme will also become a second thrust in promoting rental housing. The problem focuses on providing choice and encouraging the development of family units for affordable rent. Transformation and redevelopment of hostels is key to the restoration of dignity to this sector of our society, the hostel dwellers. This is intended to reverse the worst kind of discrimination which forced many of our people to live in overcrowded single-sex hostels, denied the right to live with their families.

To add insult to injury, these hostels had the minimum of or no facilities and were isolated from surrounding communities. We need only recall the bloodshed in the early nineties to know that never again should our people be expected to live under such conditions, robbed of the very basics of their dignity. A draft social housing Bill was developed last year. This Bill is currently being refined in line with the social housing policy discussion document that has been developed. It aims to establish a sustainable social housing process, provide for the establishment of the Office of the Registrar of Social Housing Institutions, and it affords statutory recognition to housing institutions.

This office will establish accreditation processes and criteria for housing institutions and generally regulate, inspect and do all things necessary to ensure good governance and sustainability of housing institutions.

Following the finalisation of the special integrated presidential projects and urban renewal projects programme, a need was identified for a programme to assist municipalities to initiate human settlement redevelopment projects, which will focus on correcting imbalances and dysfunctionalities of our human settlement patterns.

In the overall quest for more efficient and productive human settlements, and to move away from the apartheid structures of the past, the aim of the programme is to improve the quality of the urban environment by addressing the legacy of dysfunctionality in human settlement by: addressing the nature and underlying reasons for dysfunctionality; providing a source of funding to correct such dysfunctionality and acting as catalysts to gear up other resources; co-ordinating sources of development funding to promote holistic, integrated development; and adding value to projects which can be funded through other processes and programmes.

The following broad categories of projects are thus considered under the programme: infrastructure upgrading initiatives to facilitate redevelopment of depressed areas or to improve access to employment and business opportunities; land intervention initiatives to counter spatial distortion and enhance the integration of human settlements; replanning and redevelopment of existing human settlements which could entail slum clearance, acquisition of property, planning of redevelopment initiatives and resettlement of people; consolidation initiatives where previous housing or development initiatives resulted in unsafe, inappropriate or substandard developments that are in need of enhancement; the provision of essential community facilities and amenities; and, special development needs projects to satisfy presidential requests that may entail cross- functional co-operation and co-ordination and require extraordinary solutions outside of approved Government programmes.

The Human Settlement Redevelopment Programme impacts positively on the lives of people and communities in a physical, social, economic and environmental context. The programme is judged to fill a major gap in the development needs of dysfunctional, disadvantaged communities which cannot be addressed through existing alternative Government programmes, and it is envisaged that this will be increasing.

In conclusion, I have worked today to give hon members a clear picture of where we are in housing. Some parts of that picture is not as bright as we would all like it to be, but there is no reason for despair. As I said in the National Assembly two days ago, housing is not only on track in South Africa, it is meeting the needs of more and more people all the time. We are facing and dealing with the challenges. We are providing more choices than ever before, and we are committed to better quality.

As hon members may know, we have raised the subsidy from 27% to the current 57%, that is from 1997 to date. The subsidy has increased from 27% to 57%. This is progress we can all be proud of. I call upon hon members in the provinces to take this progress forward and to make sure that the interests of our people become our main priority. [Applause.]

Nksz P C P MAJODINA: Mhlali-ngaphambili obekekileyo, ohloniphekileyo uMphathiswa wezeZindlu umama uSankie Mthembi-Mahanyele, izikhulu eziphethe amaSebe ezeZindlu kumaphondo, mandigqithise umbulelo ongazenzisiyo weli Bhunga laMaphondo leSizwe ngokuthabatha kwazo inxaxheba kolu hlahlo lwabiwo- mali lwezeZindlu.

Mandigqithise umbuliso wam ekhaya eZulwini apho izono zam ziya kuxolelwa khona ÿ.ÿ.ÿ. [Uwele-wele.] Kwakhona ndigqithise umbulelo nombuliso wam kongasekhoyo okaThangane, uTshonyane, uAktham. (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs P C P MAJODINA: Chairperson, Minister of Housing, Mrs Sankie Mthembi- Mahanyele, and respectable people who govern the provincial housing departments, allow me to convey my sincere gratitude to the NCOP for the opportunity to take part in this debate on the Housing Budget Vote.

Allow me to convey greetings to my home, Heaven, because that is where my sins will be forgiven … [Applause.] I also convey greetings to the deceased Thangane, Tshonyane, Aktham.]

Currently, there are several problems with regard to the provision and handing over of houses to poor people at local level. In many instances in which houses built by the national Department of Housing have to be handed over to the poor people, there are conflicts with regard to nonpayment for municipal services. These conflicts often lead to owners losing ownership of houses as a result of nonpayment.

Regarding the need for integrated and intergovernmental co-ordination, the current provision of housing often lacks co-ordination between government departments. The national Department of Housing sets the standards that provincial governments and local governments have to implement.

In the provision of housing, the minimum standards are often not followed by the builders, owing to a lack of co-ordination between the national and provincial housing departments. Poor-quality houses are built and builders are not held accountable for poor services. The Department of Housing lacks land on which to build houses, but the Department of Public Works is disposing of land. Surely that is not acceptable?

The present situation in the provision of houses shows that integrated development planning is not taken into account. A number of housing projects are discarded, lack planning and ignore the needs of the people. What is the department doing in terms of policy to change the situation and ensure that housing is provided in a manner that is in compliance with integrated development?

Mandingene apha esiNtwini. Ukuze umntu abenesidima, isithozela, kufuneka azive ekhuselekile ngokuthi aphume endlwini, ekhayeni elifudumeleyo. Owona ndoqo womkhombandlela kweli sebe lakhe, umama uMphathiswa, kukuncedisa kwiphulo lokunciphisa ubuhlwempu nokuphucula ubomi babantu abangena nto, iimpula zikalujaca.

Mandithi huntshu! kweli sebe ngoba indima yalo iyabonakala, icace gca okomva webhokhwe isenyuka eqhineni. Okanye unokuthi icace gca okwekati esehlungwini. Abantu bakuthi namhlanje bayazingca kuba banezindlu ezikhuselekileyo, ngakumbi amakhosikazi.

Simbonile, uMphathiswa, engena kwisithili nakwizithilana ebezingaziwa mntu. Maxa wambi engena ngobambiswano noorhulumente bamanye amazwe. Izindlu azakhileyo kumzana omncinane waseLady Grey zingummangaliso. Ubani uthi akufika kuzo kushushu afike zipholile ngaphakathi, athi akuya kuzo kubanda afike zifudumele ngenxa yomtha welanga.

Kuthabatha iintsuku zibe sixhenxe ukuze umbundlwana uthungulule ubone. Kambe kukho abantu abathathabatha iminyaka esibhozo besithi ababoni ukuba lo Rhulumente wenza ntoni. Akanakuze abone ongekaboni ngeli xesha.

Mna ndimele abantu abangenanto, abantu basezilalini, abantu abazidlayo ngobuntu babo. Ndiya kuba andibamelanga ngokwaneleyo nangokugqibeleleyo xa ndingathethanga ngeemfuno zabo. Uphuhliso lwesebe lakhe, uMphathiswa, luthule luthe tu, wena wakhe wabona umfi ebhokisini, xa kuthethwa ngobonelelo ngezindlu ezilalini. Ewe, thina siqhele ukuzakhela ezilalini, kodwa ngenxa yentlupheko ekhoyo ngoku elizweni, abantu abawakhileyo loo maqhenge abakwazi ukuwafulela. Lithini isebe lakhe ukuncedisana nabantu abasezilalini?

Thina ezilalini, ngesi sibonelelo, singakha ipomakazi, hayi le nqala yakhiwa kwezi dolophu. Makasinike imali, uMphathiswa, uyakubona ezilalini. Ndihlaba ikhwelo elithi, abantu basemakhaya mabaxhamle nabo kubomi obungcono. Ukuba kufuneka kundululwe uMthetho oYilwayo, nto leyo engumqobo onqanda ukuba abantu bangabinakho ukuba yinxalenye yolu xhamlo, siyile komiti sizimisele ukuza nawo ngokukhulu ukukhawuleza. Asithunywa thina, singayi. Usana olungakhaliyo ke lufela embelekweni.

Ayinyamezeleki into yokubona indlela amaqumrhwana ezimali abacalula ngayo abantu bakuthi. Masilamkele ngezandla ezishushu iphulo likaMphathiswa lokuncedisana nabantu ngokuthi bazenzele amaqumrhwana okulondoloza imali, ukuze benze igalelo ekwakhiweni kwezindlu. Eli liphulo elibalulekileyo likaVukuzenzele.

Kumbandela wezindlu zesibonelelo, mandenze ikhwelo kumaphondo onke ukuba alungise iziphene zangaphambili, apho izindlu zabantu abantsundu zasisakhiwa kude lee nedolophu. Ndibabona abaphathiswa belandela kanye loo mgaqo ngeli xesha. Masiqiniseke kwinto yokuba sidibanisa imihlambi eyayisakwalana ngokuthi sizakhe izindlu apho zifuneka khona, apho kukho iinkonzo nalapho kukho iindlela nemisebenzi.

Imithetho yokwenza ngcono impilo yabantu esiyipasisileyo, kule Ndlu, mihle kakhulu kodwa iphelela ephepheni, ayigunyaziswa. Lowo ke ngumngeni kuthi sonke ngalo mzuzu kulo nyaka wobuvolontiya. Thina bale komiti siza kuthi gqolo ukuqinisekisa ukuba iyenziwa into ngabo abasemagunyeni. Siza kubathi chu, wena wakhe wabona inkomo ityiwa sisibawu. Abayijongela phantsi le mithetho siyenzile kanzima kangaka, baza kuthi bevuka beve ngathi bayatsha, kanti sebetshe bangamadangatye. Asinakuze ezweni sivumele nokuba ngubani na, nokuba usuka phi na, ukususa isidima sabantu bakowethu abangamahlwempu, abangakwaziyo ukuhlawulela iinkonzo zawo zikamasipala ngokuthi bathatyathelwe izindlu. Ixabiso lendlu alilingani nexabiso leenkonzo. Ke sithi koomasipala mabayijonge into yokuba kukho abantu abangakwazi kuzihlawula iinkonzo, kwaye asinakuyivuma into yokuba kunikezelwe ngezo zindlu. Ukuba kufuneka senze umthetho wokuqhakamshelana naloo nto siza kuwenza ngokukhawuleza.

Ingumnqa into yokuba kubekho amaphondo angayisebenzisanga imali, iMpuma Koloni, iNtshona Koloni kunye neGauteng, kanye ngeli xesha abantu bethu behluphekile befuna izindlu. Kufuneka ke kube nguye uMphathiswa obaphethele apha okweentsana, ngoba kaloku bafuna ukwanyiswa, abakwazi ukuzihambela, kuba basibuyisela emva. Kuliwe apha kweli lizwe lakowethu ukuze sibe kule ndawo, kwaye abantu bafuna imisebenzi nendawo yokuhlala. La maphondo awakhankanyileyo uMphathiswa ahleli phezu kwemali.

Akukho nzwana ingenasiphako, kodwa olwakhe ugqatso ngathi uMphathiswa, uya ekulufezekiseni. Izingqi zakhe ziyavakala. Ndixhasa olu hlahlo lwabiwo-mali lwanamhlanje, ngakumbi ngezongezelelo athe uMphathiswa, wazipapasha namhlanje. Amaqobokazana angalala endleleni yazini kunyembelekile.

Imo yezulu mayingabi sisithintelo kwakhiweni kwezindlu. Thina phaya emakhaya siqhele ukwakha ngeesoyi, izitena zodaka. Siyalazi ke ixesha lokwakha. Iba ngumnqa into yokuba ubawo uGugile Nkwinti athi: ``Namhlanje asakhanga eMpuma Koloni ngenxa yokuba bekusina iimvula zobusika’.

Mandithi huntshu! nakuMlawuli Jikelele ngenxa yokuba ngexesha ebengekho, uMphathiswa, ebeyiphethe kakuhle kakhulu ikomiti. Ndiyaluxhasa ke uhlahlo lwabiwo-mali lwanamhlanje. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of Xhosa paragraphs follows.)

[For a person to have dignity and to be dignified, one must feel protected by possessing a warm house. The proper way for the Minister’s department is to help with the mission to reduce poverty and to improve the lives of poor people.

I must congratulate this Minister’s department on its clear and visible role, one that is as clear and visible as a goat’s path, or grass that has just been cut, now revealing the cat. Our people, mostly women, are proud today, because they are secured in their houses.

We have seen the Minister moving in and out of bigger and smaller districts that were unknown, and sometimes doing so in partnership with the governments of other countries. The houses that the Minister has built in the small area of Lady Grey are amazing. When one enters them on a hot day, one finds them cool and in cold weather they are warmed by the rays of the sun.

It takes only about seven days for a little puppy to start to see, but there are people who are taking about eight years, while they complain about the progress made by this Government. A person who does not want to see now will never see. I am representing poor people, the people in the rural areas, who are proud of themselves. I will not be representing them well or doing so fully if I do not speak about their needs. The Minister’s department is as quiet as the grave with regard to the issue of development when it comes to the distribution of houses in the rural areas. Yes, in the rural areas we are used to building our own houses, but because of the existing poverty in the country, the people who have built those big houses cannot afford to cover them with a roof. What is the Minister’s department saying about helping them?

With this housing subsidy in the rural areas we can build big and beautiful houses, unlike those that are built in the cities. The Minister must give us the money and she will see what happens in the rural areas. I issue a challenge that, people in the rural areas should also have the benefit of a better life, and we can introduce a Bill to prevent people from not benefiting; we as this committee are prepared to draft it as soon as possible. We are asked, therefore, we do. A child who does not cry often enough dies of hunger.

The way that small financial institutions discriminate against our people is not acceptable. We must gratefully accept the Minister’s efforts to help the people who are establishing small businesses for themselves to save money, which would help to contribute to the construction of houses. This is also one of the important aims of the Vukuzenzele campaign.

On the issue of a housing subsidy, I would like to urge all provinces to rectify the mistakes of the past, through which the houses of the people were built far away from the cities. I have observed that the Minister is trying to rectify precisely this. We should understand that by doing so we are bringing together the flocks that used to be separate, moving them to a place where there are houses, services, roads and jobs.

The Bills about a better life for the people that we have already introduced and passed in this House sound wonderful and beautiful, but they are just on paper and are not being implemented. This is a challenge to all of us at this minute and in this year of volunteerism. As committee members, we will always monitor the progress of those in authority on this matter. We will put them under pressure like a big spider biting a beast. Those who disapprove of the laws that we have struggled to institute will regret it when they start noticing the change.

We will never allow anyone, from anywhere, to take away the dignity of our poor people by confiscating their houses because they cannot afford to pay for services. House prices and services are not equal. Therefore, we urge the municipalities to take notice of people who cannot afford to pay for their services because we could not allow confiscation of those houses. We are prepared to introduce a Bill on that if there is a need to do so.

It is amazing to know that there are some provinces in this House, like the Eastern Cape, the Western Cape and Gauteng, that have not spent their budgets, especially in this time of desperation on the part of our people to obtain houses. Since the Minister has noticed this, it is her responsibility to ensure that the people who are responsible in these provinces perform their tasks, as they seem to enjoy being monitored like little children, because they delay progress. People have fought for democracy in this country of ours in order to get jobs and houses. Those provinces that the Minister has mentioned are sitting on the people’s money.

There is no one without faults, but the Minister appears to be going in the right direction in performing her task. The sound of her footsteps is being heard. I support today’s Budget Vote. We salute the hon the Minister, more especially for the development that she has mentioned. Forward with the women’s good efforts!

The weather should not be an excuse not to build houses. We in the rural areas are used to building with sods and mud bricks and therefore we know when to build our houses. It will be a surprise if Mr Gugile Nkwinti says: ``Today we did not build in the Eastern Cape because it is winter and it is raining.’’

Let me say congratulations also to the director-general, because when the Minister was away, the job was done very well. I, therefore support the Budget Vote. [Applause.]]

Dr P J C NEL: Voorsitter, ek het nie alles verstaan wat die vorige spreker gesê het nie, maar ek dink ek stem saam met die meeste van wat sy gesê het.

Die voorreg om ‘n huis te bekom, hoe klein ook al, is seker die belangrikste gebeurtenis wat mens op aarde kan beleef. Dit is dan ook my party se visie dat elke Suid-Afrikaner uiteindelik moet deel in hierdie wonderlike voorreg. Dit is belangrik dat die staat ook toesien dat die voorreg om ‘n huis te besit, nie van die minderbevoorregte gemeenskap weerhou word, of die lewering daarvan vertraag word as gevolg van korrupsie of onkundige amptenare nie.

Dis skokkend om vanuit die ouditeur-generaal se verslag oor sy bevindinge en die prestasie-oudit van verlede jaar wat gedoen is op provinsiale vlak, te verneem dat erge ongerymdhede steeds plaasvind in dié verband in alle provinsies. In die genoemde verslag word onder andere ook melding gemaak van verskillende faktore wat die lewering van behuising negatief beïnvloed.

In die Vrystaat waar daar ‘n geweldige agterstand in die verskaffing van behuising is, is daar volgens ‘n antwoord op die vraag wat ek aan die agb Minister gerig het, alleen maar in totaal 990 nuwe subsidies goedgekeur en maar net 2 350 huiseenhede in die Vrystaat voltooi in die afgelope finansiële jaar.

Dié stadige beskikbaarstelling van grond vir behuisingsdoeleindes word deur die agb LUR as hoofoorsaak genoem vir hierdie ontstellende statistiek. In dié verband haal ek graag aan uit die begrotingstoespraak van die agb LUR:

We would like to see an increased pace of land development in the province. In the past year, we only developed 3 039 erven. Acceleration of this programme is our joint responsibility with municipalities.

The interim integrated development plans suggest that we have a 197 000 housing backlog. This makes the need for rapid land release rather urgent.

Ek is bewus daarvan dat die provinsies te doen het met verouderde wetgewing, wat dit vir hulle baie moeilik maak om staatsgrond te bekom vir behuisingsdoeleindes en word dan ook geforseer om addisionele grond aan te koop teen ekstra koste. In dié verband haal ek graag aan uit die kommentaar van die Direkteur-generaal vir Behuising in die genoemde ouditeursverslag:

State, local government or public land is used in many provinces for housing development. However, such land is seldom purchased at market value due to the respective provincial departments of land affairs not having a policy in this regard.

Dit is duidelik dat daar sonder verwyl gekyk moet word na die opstel van nuwe wetgewing en beleidsrigtings, wat provinsies in staat sal stel om staatsgrond betyds te bekom vir hulle behuisingsdoeleindes.

Volgens genoemde ouditeursverslag blyk dit ook dat daar in baie gevalle ‘n vertraging in die lewering van huisbouprojekte is weens swak beplanning met die verskaffing van aansluitingsdienste. In dié verband haal ek graag kortliks ook uit dié verslag aan:

This impacted negatively on the completion of housing projects. For example, 20 projects in the Northern Province -

Limpopo

… to the value of R166 million were put in abeyance due to lack of funds. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Dr P J C NEL: Chairperson, I did not understand everything the previous speaker said, but I think that I agree with most of what she said.

The privilege of acquiring a house, no matter how small, is probably the most important event on earth that one can experience. It is accordingly my party’s vision that every South African should eventually share in this wonderful privilege. It is important that the state also sees to it that the privilege of owning a house is not denied to the disadvantaged community, or that its delivery is not delayed due to corruption or ignorant officials.

It is shocking to learn from the auditor-general’s report on his findings, as well as the performance audit of last year which was done at the provincial level, of severe anomalies that are still occurring in this regard in all provinces. In the above-mentioned report various factors that are influencing the delivery of housing negatively are, inter alia, also mentioned.

In the Free State, where there is an enormous backlog in the provision of housing, the position, according to an answer to a question I put to the hon the Minister, is that a total of only 990 new subsidies were approved, and only 2 350 housing units were completed in the Free State in the past financial year.

This slow release of land for housing purposes has been mentioned by the hon MEC as the main cause of these disturbing statistics. In this regard I would like to quote from the budget speech of the hon MEC:

We would like to see an increased pace of land development in the province. In the past year, we only developed 3 039 erven. Acceleration of this programme is our joint responsibility with municipalities.

The interim integrated development plans suggest that we have a 197 000 housing backlog. This makes the need for rapid land release rather urgent. I am aware of the fact that the provinces are dealing with antiquated legislation which makes it very difficult for them to acquire state land for housing purposes, and then they are also forced to purchase additional land at extra cost. In this regard I would like to quote from the commentary of the Director-General for Housing in the above-mentioned auditor’s report:

State, local government or public land is used in many provinces for housing development. However, such land is seldom purchased at market value due to the respective provincial departments of land affairs not having a policy in this regard.

It is clear that we have to look at the drafting of new legislation and policies without delay, which will enable provinces to acquire state land timeously for their housing purposes.

According to the above-mentioned auditor’s report it would seem that there are also many instances of delays in the delivery of house-building projects due to poor planning with regard to the provision of connection services. In this regard I would once again like to quote briefly from this report:

This impacted negatively on the completion of housing projects. For example, 20 projects in the Northern Province -

Limpompo -

… to the value of R166 million were put in abeyance due to lack of funds.]

Better interdepartmental co-ordination is necessary to resolve this problem. It was very encouraging to hear from the hon the Minister today that the department has shifted emphasis to the more qualitative aspects of delivery at this stage. My party is convinced that medium-density housing will definitely contribute in adding quality to housing projects.

We also agree with the hon the Minister that social housing projects will be one of the most effective strategies of implementing medium density, in that the beneficiaries are also involved in the management of the houses and will hopefully keep them in good condition.

The beneficiary contribution of R2 479 that will now be a prerequisite for getting the Government housing subsidy will also facilitate the improvement of the quality of houses. I am also convinced that self-building projects will also play a major role in producing quality housing. The increase in the subsidy grants to beneficiaries will also contribute to the building of better-quality and more houses.

In conclusion, my party appreciate the fact that the Government has already approved an HIV/Aids policy to provide cluster housing for orphans and housing communities that will be able to sustain families infected and affected by Aids. I appeal again today to the hon the Minister to make these projects a very high priority. My party supports the Vote. [Applause.]

Mr S L TSENOLI (Free State): Chairperson, may I rise in support of the Budget on housing? I would also like to extend my thanks to the Minister for having come to the province twice in a very short space of time. For us and the beneficiaries on the ground, such visibility is very important. It demonstrates that our leadership cares and that we are working together, as government, at a national, provincial and local level. We appreciate the hon the Minister’s responsiveness.

The housing process is a very political one. We have an obligation to do it, in order to satisfy the human rights of people out there. It is particularly important that this month we are celebrating the sixth year of the adoption of our new Constitution. That Constitution laid the foundation for the work that we are doing. The progressive steps that we take every day are in line with the satisfaction of the people’s deepest aspiration for housing. Deepening democracy and accountability is also a process which we are involved in, because, as the hon the Minister said, there are aspects of housing delivery that involve beneficiaries in the construction, financing and building of their own homes, so that participatory democracy, complementing representative democracy, is a very important political programme that we are involved in in this country. Housing is a very important part of that process.

It is also an important stimulant in the local economy. Every house that we build produces jobs and creates opportunities. It keeps jobs that exist in the firms that supply materials and so on. So it is a very important local economic stimulant. It is also very critical in the social life of our people and in the provision of health. With every house that is provided, the impact on the health of the people is huge. The electrification that goes with it is critical.

In our province and, I guess, in the country as a whole, the integrated development plans will, for the first time, formally inform the budgets of municipalities. One of the responsibilities that we have, as departments of local governments in the provinces, is to manage these relationships, with the effective involvement of provincial and national departments, in providing detailed information about money and resource plans for each municipality, so that they can plan the work of services effectively. Housing is one of the critical components of that process. So we are involved not only in the management of the relationship of the various spheres of government for the effective support of local government, but also in the management of developers and contractors and of the beneficiaries themselves.

It is on the management of these relationships that I want to come in, because, in speaking about underexpenditure, we must recognise that, for example, as we speak, the underexpenditure that we are talking about in the provinces relates to the fact that we have contractual obligations. We have allocated housing to areas. What is happening there is the effective project management of these relationships, so that housing gets off the ground.

The various parts of our work partly to undo the apartheid spatial and legislative obstacles is what is at the heart of the problems we are confronting. For example, in Mangaung in the area of Botshabelo, which used to be an R293 town, the land is still separately owned. We must still effectively change the ordinances and the legislation, so that people can begin to construct there. Some of the projects are delayed for that reason. We have a major programme of reviewing outdated ordinances and pieces of legislation that must be removed from the Statute Book, so that we can effectively manage projects and have housing hitting the ground and being built. We have to raise these issues because they often obscure what is in the way of the construction of housing.

The other important thing is that we must not underestimate the capacity that we are also concerned with at municipal level. One of the most important parts of the refocusing orientation that is beginning to emerge overall is that local government must increasingly participate in the development of housing. All along, they have not. This work has, in most instances, been done by developers without effective and comprehensive involvement of local government. Now we are talking about working with municipalities to build their capacity, to work with us in project management of the construction of housing. It is for that reason that the IDPs are so important, in that it is on the basis of the integrated development plans that municipalities will decide the location of housing and other services, so that when we provide allocations to municipalities, housing will be built on the basis of those plans and they will have resources to provide other services that go with the housing development.

We have done very important work in the Free State. We have examined intensively the reasons for the delay in the completion of projects. We have identified more than seven key areas. But when we look at the implementation that comes out of that examination, we can identify four critical areas in which we have already started implementation. The first one is the departmental capacity to expand our numbers of people who inspect housing as it is built, so that as various phases of the construction are completed, developers are paid and, in fact, the housing is examined for appropriate quality workmanship.

Secondly, we are talking about staffing at appropriate levels in the department and the capacity of developers and contractors. Some of these are black contractors and developers who are new in the industry and awaiting capacity-building and so forth, unable to manage a project in a sustainable manner because they are new. In collaboration with the national Department of Public Works, we have programmes that are aimed at building the capacity of these fields, including giving them access to finance, but also enabling them to grow and providing subsidies on a sustainable basis, so that there are no stops along the way in the construction process.

Thirdly, there is beneficiary empowerment. One of the greatest powers we have given beneficiaries is the right to sign a happy letter. That happy letter says that the beneficiary is going into that home because it is properly constructed, of good quality workpersonship. But there are problems when beneficiaries are not able to do so and they are taken advantage of, owing to their illiteracy and because others are able to manipulate the system. They therefore often occupy homes that are not properly built and so forth.

It is one of the critical components of our beneficiary empowerment programmes. I have spoken about building the capacity of local municipalities. In the Free State we have produced a Free State Housing Charter. It spells out in very specific terms what we expect the municipalities to do, but we have also summed up various pieces of legislation that spell out what municipalities’ responsibilities are.

We must remember, the system of local government in this country is new. All the role-players, councillors and officials, have to internalise the system. Nobody is a veteran of the system. Many of the people involved in this are new, as are the legislation and the systems in place. We have to play a big role in assisting them, firstly, to understand by reminding them of their responsibilities. We also have to assist them critically to build capacity for internalising their ability to play an active role, so that ultimately we accredit those who build capacity in time, but also help those who will play a role in developmental facilitation with the appropriate capacity.

These are the four areas which we think will play a critical role in the implementation programmes that we are talking about. Three weeks ago we allocated 10 000 subsidies to 20 municipalities in the Free State. We were doing that quite consciously. Those that we have contractual obligations with, which we have stalled, will be started again, and we will be able to spend the money that has been allocated to us.

We are very grateful for the increases that have being made, and we support the budget. [Time expired.]

Mr K D S DURR: Mr Chairman, we support the budget before us. I wish to raise the matter of the Western Cape Rental Housing Tribunal, which was approved in August 2001, in terms of the Rental Housing Act 50 of 1999, with the Minister. The purpose of the tribunal is to resolve disputes between landlords and tenants, including the government sector. So far, the tribunal in the Western Cape, which is only one of two which exist in South Africa - the other is in Gauteng - has had much success. Some 2 851 complaints have been received by the unit, including telephonic enquiries, visits by the public and formal case files. There have already been 10 hearings, and 20 cases were dealt with.

The tribunal is working wonderfully well, and most enquiries have not been dealt with by the tribunal, but have been dealt with by the unit, and have been satisfactorily resolved, interestingly enough, half in favour of the tenants and half in favour of the landlords. So they are even-handed in the way they go about their work. Most cases have been resolved by mediation. The findings of the tribunal have the same status as orders of the magistrates’ court.

There is, however, room for improvement in the light of experience. The process at the moment is a finding, usually adhered to by the parties concerned. However, if they do not abide by the finding, the tribunal and the complainant have to go to the police together to lay a charge. The police then have to investigate. This can take weeks, and the complainant may suffer eviction and be out on the street. Then the case is taken to the magistrates’ court.

The procedure I want to suggest, which is for the Minister to consider, is that if a finding of the tribunal is not abided by, the tribunal should be able to take the matter directly to the magistrates’ court to be heard, without first laying charges with the police. We need to give this essential consumer service in housing the teeth that it deserves and that it requires. It has gone exceptionally well, but as we go forward, and as landlords and tenants realise what their rights are, they may well be abused. So we ask the Minister to consider this. Gauteng has also established such a tribunal. We recommend to other provinces that they follow suit. It works well.

The House congratulates Mr Theron, the first chairman of the Western Cape Rental Housing Tribunal, and his small staff on their excellent work.

This is the first appearance in this House of my colleague the MEC from the Western Cape government. We welcome her and wish her very well for the future. She should also listen to what I have to say regarding a consumer court being contemplated by the Western Cape. May I suggest to the MECs here that as such a court and rental tribunal would both need premises, perhaps they could cut costs and share premises, because their premises would be very similar. One would then provide a focus for consumer affairs where the public could go.

The Minister may be aware of section 21 companies that deliver quite a lot of houses in South Africa: Garden Cities is one, Community Care is another. Now, Sars has come up with a section 30, in which they say a section 21 company has to prove that it is acting for the indigent before they will be able to get tax rebates. [Time expired.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, your time is up.

Mr K D S DURR: We support the legislation. [Applause.]

Mr M S GININDZA (Mpumalanga): Chairperson, Minister, hon members of this House, it is obvious that I rise to support this vote. We declared long ago that there shall be houses, security and comfort.

It is on the basis of this commitment that we want to share with hon members some ideas about the strengthened focus of the Mpumalanga department of housing and land administration. By ``strengthened focus’’ we imply that the department has embarked upon strengthened strategies of addressing the question of the size and quality of the RDP houses. The guiding principle adopted is one of an integrated approach to sustainable housing delivery and development.

There is always room for improvement. It is again on the basis of this principle that we have considered the question of the size and the quality of the RDP houses. Added to this is the critical issue of the size of the stands on which RDP houses are erected. The strengthened strategy embodied in the focus seeks to roll out a process of RDP housing delivery that ensures an improvement in equality and a reduction of vulnerability.

The poorest of the poor must benefit in the whole process of RDP housing delivery. It is therefore envisaged that efforts should be made to have bigger and better quality houses which also benefit the poor, economically and in terms of skills. One may contend that there is no logic that says that a poor person deserves an inferior quality house. On the contrary, a poor person remains a person with human dignity, and therefore deserves everything that a person, as a human being, deserves.

Housing delivery has a sociocultural and economic impact. In the sociocultural milieu, the size of a house is critical. Coming from a historically disadvantaged, poor community, it is not difficult to appreciate that the present norm of 32 square metres is grossly inadequate for a poor family.

It must be noted that housing delivery implies that the provision of a home, and not merely houses, is important. By that understanding it is not require a stretch of the imagination to clearly recognise the need for a bigger house for families known to be characterised by extended families and family members.

Building a bigger house is possible through some of the instruments available and through the Vukuzenzele principle. While it is impractical to provide bigger and better houses because of obvious financial constraints, a moderately bigger house can serve the needs of an extended family better. Besides, a relatively bigger stand provides an opportunity for such a family to extend the house in future when a member can afford to do so. The strengthened strategies must address this critical issue of the size and quality of houses. In this regard, local developers and contractors are being invited to come and inspect some new RDP plans prepared by the department. Such plans are to be taken away by contractors to discuss with their principals and make changes and suggestions. This process must be of some benefit to the people both in monetary terms and skills development.

Contractors and developers from historically disadvantaged communities must be accorded the opportunity to actualise themselves. The potential is there, and we all know that. In the economic milieu, poverty alleviation is crucial to attaining meaningful democracy. Political theorists agree on the need to balance political and economic powers. Political independence needs be to correlated with economic independence.

In a humble way, the process of housing delivery must offer job creation opportunities. When an emerging contractor is skilled the doors of self- employment are open. Disposable income is appreciably increased, coupled with higher purchasing power. Housing delivery impacts on the economy as self-employable people replace job-seekers. This is sustainable development.

Land delivery must also benefit the poor. It has been observed that a bigger house on a bigger stand has the potential of developing into a home. This is also a poverty-alleviating goal to which the department is committed. A bigger stand for a historically disadvantaged beneficiary is not ground for luxury. On the contrary, it is an opportunity to supplement household income by way of backyard gardening, peasant poultry farming, etc.

In our vision, we envisage a department determined to travel the extra mile to provide housing and effective land management services to create a better life for all. In conclusion, we want to thank the Minister of Housing for the manner in which she steers the boat in the right direction. Make, siyakubonga, umuhle. [We thank you, you are wonderful.] [Applause.] Mr T RALANE: Chairperson, Minister, MECs, special delegates and hon members, the ANC places a very high premium on the social and human development of our people. Great focus is therefore placed on public expenditure in areas that are crucial to the social and human development of people, particularly housing, education and health.

Given the high premium which our Government places on the wellbeing of our people, it is no surprise that expenditure on housing for this year has significantly increased. This increase is in line with Government’s objectives of economic growth, job creation and poverty alleviation.

Housing is one of the key deliverables in generating growth, employment and wealth. The billions Government spends annually on housing sudsidies sustains more than 80 000 direct and indirect employment opportunities in the building industry and the building materials and component markets.

The struggle against homelessness in our country is a massive challenge. This is largely as a result of the enormous housing backlog which was caused by the racist housing policy framework inherited from the apartheid era.

One of the first things the ANC did was to put in place a new housing policy framework based on the principles of equity and nondiscrimination. The new approach to housing was based on partnership between various tiers of government, not only to address the massive backlog, but also to give meaning to the notion of people-centred development.

Under the new policy framework, the Minister of Housing and her department has performed remarkably well in a very difficult and challenging environment. Much of this success has been made possible by the effective co-operation between national, provincial and local government. Provincial government has, through the regular policy dialogue in Minmec, been fully engaged, while the successful transformation of local government ensured its involvement and commitment to the delivery of housing.

In all of this the National Council of Provinces has played a critical role. It provided the platform through which the three levels of government were able to develop a coherent and integrated approach towards meeting the housing needs of our people.

The ANC, under the capable leadership of the hon the Minister of Housing, has completely transformed the old housing environment from one based on racism and discrimination to one that seeks to fulfil the needs of all South Africans. In terms of the new policy framework, all existing housing support institutions were overhauled and made sensitive to the needs of poor South Africans. New mechanisms, such as the housing subsidy scheme, were created to facilitate the acquisition of finance for those who could not previously afford to build their own houses. New legislation was enacted to protect new owners against unscrupulous builders, landlords, inferior workmanship and discriminatory practices by lending institutions, and to curb the abuse of syndicates who buy houses built with government subsidies for next to nothing.

In addition, the ANC has also initiated a People’s Housing Process focusing mainly on the efforts of poor communities to improve their living conditions. The People’s Housing Process is based on the fact that people have always built their own houses by applying the vast wealth of traditional know-how. This process is aimed at building the capacity of and supporting poor communities to improve their living conditions by developing technical skills, by facilitating and promoting housing support centres and by recognising the role of organised community-based structures and nongovernmental organisations as key movers in the process.

The more than one million houses that have been built since 1994 bear testimony to the success of ANC’s new housing policies and strategies. If one takes into consideration the vast number of electricity and water connections that have been established since 1994, it is clear that the ANC’s delivery programme has contributed dramatically towards improving the quality of life of millions of South Africans.

Despite these successes there are still serious challenges ahead. While our country has harnessed community resources in an effort to meet and exceed housing targets, some financial institutions are still reluctant to give loans to the poor, which they identify as a high-risk undertaking.

While some inroads have been made in changing such perceptions, the poor still face difficulties in accessing the desired levels of credit. Such attitudes are a result of South Africa’s painful history and are directly linked to discrimination and subtle racism.

Over the last couple of months we have also seen a number of cases of people being evicted from their houses because they could not repay the loans with which they built their houses or were unable to pay their rates and services.

This is a serious problem that threatens to destroy the hard-won gains we have made in terms of delivering houses to the poor, who are the majority and who in most cases do not have regular incomes. Whilst I agree that those who can pay should in fact be compelled to pay for services delivered to them, those who do not earn regular incomes and cannot pay even if they want to are the poorest of the poor, and, if we do not create some sort of mechanism to protect them, they will descend into even greater poverty and despair.

What is more disturbing is the fact that many of those who face eviction only know about their fate when officials come knocking at their doors to evict them and the bulldozers rattle into action. Such undignified treatment must have no place in our democracy. If people know about plans to evict them well in advance, I am sure they will take steps to prevent their possible eviction. What is needed, therefore, is information. People should be informed as soon as eviction proceedings are executed. This will enable them to seek counselling on legal aspects of evictions and obtain information on available financial support. The ANC supports this budget. [Applause.]

Nkul B MABASO (Gauteng): Mutshami wa Xitulo, Holobye wa tindlu Manana Mthembi-Mahanyele, ti-MEC hinkwato leti nga kona na vatshami va switulu eka swa tindlu, swirho swa huvo na vaaki va tiko ra South Africa na mi rungula ni ku mi xixima. Xifundza xa Gauteng xa mi hoyozela manana minister, hi ku vona mintirho leyi mi yi endlaka leyi mi nga hi rhangela e mahlweni e ka yona. Mintirho leyi hi ku humelela ka yona yi tisaku vurhongo eka vaaki va South Africa. (Translation of Xitsonga paragraph follows.)

[Mr B MABASO: Hon Chairperson, Minister of Housing, Mrs Mthembi-Mahanyele, all MECs and hon Chairpersons of all Houses present, hon members and South African citizens, I greet and respect you. The Gauteng province congratulates you, hon Minister, on the good work under your leadership. The success of your work brings peace to South African citizens.]

I want to speak of the adjustment of the quantum of the housing subsidy first. The original subsidy amounts have been adjusted for inflation over the past three years, bringing the new subsidy amount up to R20 300.

It is significant that this increase of the subsidy quantum coincides with the implementation of the warranty scheme of the National Home Builders Registration Council. This warranty scheme relates to the ``housing subsidy only’’ market, and seeks to provide these houses with a five-year warranty. With the exception of the aged and disabled, everyone will be required to contribute an amount of R2 499 for the warranty. Those who are destitute and unable to contribute money upfront will be required to participate in the People’s Housing Process to build their own houses.

My next topic is the savings-linked subsidy scheme. Hi tlhela hi mi hoyozela! [We congratulate you again!] This is a very important scheme. The scheme attempts to maximise the gearing of state funding, while providing incentives for the target community to save. The Gauteng provincial government supports this programme since it encourages people to make a contribution of their own to supplement Government resources. This will instill a sense of pride and ownership and discourage the illegal sales of Government-provided houses, which have been so rife to date.

N’wana a nga velekeriwi. Mutswari loyi a nga twaku vava hi ku tisa n’wana laha emisaveni a nge pfuki a n’wi xavisile. Similary. Yindlu layi munhu a yi kumeke a huma na nyuku (sweat) a nge yi xavisi in the cheap manner. [One cannot bear a child for someone else. A biological parent who felt the pain when bringing a child into this world will never sell her child. A house which one obtained through hard work and sweat one will never sell.]

With regard to policy and legislation, I wish to applaud the Minister for strengthening the social housing approach through the development of two key pieces of legislation, namely the Social Housing Bill and the Community Reinvestment (Housing) Bill.

With regard to the Social Housing Bill, this Bill is designed to promote and establish a sustainable social housing process, while guiding Government in creating an enabling environment for the delivery and development of social housing. The Bill creates an avenue for gearing state and private sector resources and funding in order to provide quality houses and services to our people.

The Bill goes further to recognise that social housing contributes to urban regeneration and development initiatives. Its objectives also include giving statutory recognition to housing institutions as important role- players in the housing delivery process. Given that social housing is a stated priority of Gauteng’s housing strategy, the new policy will serve to strengthen our efforts.

The Community Reinvestment (Housing) Bill is meant to provide the specification of minimum targets and standards for lending at low and medium-income levels. The Bill will enable us to move a step further towards ensuring that low and medium-income people have access to home loans from the banks. The Bill will effectively outlaw practices such as redlining and compel banks to invest in the previously neglected areas.

Our initiatives in Gauteng to draw financial institutions into the low-cost housing market are beginning to bear fruit. This Bill should help to further our efforts to have a meaningful partnership with the banking sector to contribute to a better life for our poor citizens.

Let me immediately mention that in Gauteng we had a major gathering last week, led by our MEC the hon Paul Mashatile. He called all stakeholders together and there was a day-long workshop, but it was remarkable that most of the stakeholders stayed from the beginning to the end. Each and every stakeholder articulated his or her problems and together we would go and find solutions.

In conclusion, Gauteng acknowledges the provincial allocation to the housing fund for this financial year. We assure the Minister of effective use of this fund in accordance with the national housing programme. We support this Budget Vote and I apologise on behalf of our MEC, who could not be here owing to other commitments. He sends his humble apologies. [Applause.]

Cllr M RAVHUANZWO (Salga): Chairperson, hon Minister, hon MECs present here, hon members and special delegates, the housing programme to date has clearly demonstrated the will of the Government to address some of the worst legacies of the past. In essence, it allows over a million people, 1,325 million in fact, to be a functional part of their communities, towns and cities, and it allows millions more the hope that their dreams are realisable in the foreseeable future.

The value placed in people by this Government, rendering meaning to their lives and giving them a place to build and contribute to our villages, towns and cities and therefore to our country and its economy, is immeasurable. The making of meaningful citizens, ready to participate in public life through institutions at local level, and creating an environment for good governance become the building blocks for economic growth and wealth creation.

As organised local government, we are aware of the centrality of a successful housing programme and place great value on the manner in which the Minister has steered the programme to date. The evolution of the housing programme, under her guidance, into an instrument for developing sustainable human settlements, is much more clearly articulated.

The paradigm shift in which housing is used as a developmental instrument, from the one that used to address one of the most horrific legacies of apartheid, the exclusion from the dignity of being housed properly, to a multifaceted instrument of economic empowerment for the poor is significant.

The critical issues highlighted in this shift are welcomed as significant contributions to the construction of better living environments, and make valued interventions for local government. Starting with an emphasis on the centrality of the contribution the beneficiary has to make to housing, enriches us as a country. Making savings or sweat equity an essential requirement reinforces the greater principles of self-reliance and partnership, and hence shared risk and joint benefits. It contributes to building citizenship, and people taking responsibility for themselves, while Government creates the enabling mechanism to realise the housing opportunity. This amounts to a real contribution of approximately 10% of the subsidy from Government, a very fair and reasonable contribution to be requested.

The increase in the actual subsidy amount of between 28,87% and 57,64% to date, is more than just inflation-related. It will continue to provide the formula that has produced real housing, not just minimal shelter. When coupled to own contributions, it will begin to provide the kinds of dream homes that people have talked about and planned for years.

The significant structuring of the subsidy to emphasise quality goes a long way to building viable and meaningful communities, and functional and vibrant towns and cities. The emphasis on rental housing as a direct means of facilitating medium-density development, so as to create more efficient towns and cities, is a significant contribution for effective management of cities and the commitments to sustainable built environments.

Coupling the quality emphasis with people taking more responsibility, through their own contributions and structuring at a resourced NHBRC programme to oversee quality of homes constructed, adds strength to building better cities. This contributes to confident communities and assists with the notion of effective governance.

The drive towards building strong institutions that enhance citizens’ participation in housing is to be commended. The development of a strong social housing institution, the Social Housing Foundation, with its enabling instruments, the upcoming Social Housing Bill and the Office of the Registrar of Social Housing Institutions, will provide much-needed support to the emerging housing associations.

This institutionalised form of housing management for the poor provides the building blocks for ensuring access to decent housing and provides support to the housing market. These are the fundamentals for growing and competitive cities, the very cities which we are likely to depend on to grow us out of poverty into prosperity. This is one of the critical building blocks of the Urban Renewal Programme, a programme to which local government is unwaveringly committed.

It is this shift to creating the conditions for better risk management in the housing market that we feel provides the stepping stones to economically vibrant towns and cities. To date, the housing financing policies of the financial institutions have served to entrench the apartheid inequities by redlining predominantly black areas. We feel it is timely for the move towards engaging the financial institutions on their role in the housing programme.

The Government has demonstrated its resolve in aspects where the market is unable to function effectively. In turn, the draft Community Reinvestment (Housing) Bill is a step in the right direction. The Government resolving to set in place a programme dedicated to quality improvements in housing delivery needs an equal demonstration by the housing financial institutions.

In trying to conclude, it needs to be said that more still has to be done with regard to alignment of policy, programmes, structures, systems and procedures across spheres of government. The need to do so is predicated on the fact that strong local government is at the heart of building democracy. With strong democratic local government, the task of aligning resources will begin to address what has been a long-standing complaint of new housing residents, the absence of integrated services, which will be better addressed by the integrated development plan.

This lack of co-ordination, linked to delays because of administrative lapses in systems and procedures, continue to plague our newly housed communities. The strong administrative hand of the housing programme needs to be extended much more aggressively with local government, to give effect to the task of building effective and sustainable human settlements. A concerted effort in co-operative programmes for housing needs to be focused on. It is not merely capacity-building, but a dedicated effort at managing integration that is needed. This in turn will see a much more effective housing delivery programme, but more significantly, much more viable and functional communities being built.

As Salga we support the Budget Vote and we wish the Minister well in her programmes and activities for the year. [Applause.]

Mnu T M SHABALALA (KwaZulu-Natal): Mphathisihlalo, neNdlu yakho nabakungqongile, mhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe wethu esimthanda kakhulu nomnyango wakhe, bafowethu nodadewethu abavela ezifundazweni ezahlukene, kwaze kwamnandi, ngizoke ngishaye isiZulu sakithi lapha. Udadewethu uMajodina ushaye ngolimi lwakubo wangigeza ngaphakathi. (Translation of Zulu paragraph follows.)

[Mr T M SHABALALA (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson and the House before you, our hon Minister, who we admire, together with her department, brothers and sisters from different provinces, it is very good, I am going to speak Zulu, my home language. My sister Majodina spoke her language and that pleased me very much.]

First of all, I must start by congratulating our hon Minister, and her department, for the hard work she has done for our communities. We are very pleased about the budget speech that was delivered nationally, which was prepared and delivered with strong confidence in our entire society.

Hhayi njengomuntu wesimame noma wesifazane, njengomama nje wethu. [Not as a woman or a female, but like our mother.]

In the past they used to say that behind a successful man there is a woman. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] Now we are saying, next to a successful woman there is a man. [Laughter.] We received the budget speech in KwaZulu-Natal and it was discussed by the portfolio committee, the hon the Minister and his department, as well as the KwaZulu-Natal parliament.

We came to a positive conclusion, that we support it. Although we do have those elements who always disagree with everything done by us or by somebody else, the majority agreed.

The increase in the housing subsidy was well applauded by many of our people and this will change the people’s perception in that they have a Government that is really committed to providing everybody with proper housing. We know where we come from, and we can see now where we are heading. NgesiZulu sithi: Sekuyakhanya ezansi. [In Zulu we say: Darkness is starting to disappear.]

Due to time constraints I will not elaborate much on all the points that were mentioned in the budget speech, because I respect my sister behind me who also comes from KwaZulu-Natal. We respect ladies. She will do a lot of the speaking and I will be short, because for a tall man like me to speak for four minutes only … [Laughter.]

Ngithi kumhlonishwa uNgqonqgoshe laphaya, KwaZulu-Natali, imisebenzi yakhe siyayibona. Sithi makangesabi, makaziqhenye ngoba wenza izimanga. Sizohlale sinaye ngisho ngabe esefake i-overall ebovu, eshaya ngomshini. Sizohlale sinaye udadewethu futhi imisebenzi yakhe siyayesekela. Siyazi ukuthi kunzima phambili futhi siyazi ukuthi siphuma kuphi - lapho abantu bakithi bebakhelwa khona lezi zindlu esithukwa ngazo kodwa zibe kade zisuke ezimalini zethu, ebesingacatshangelwa ngazo ukuthi zibuyiselwe kithina bantu abamnyama.

Thina sinoNgqongqoshe ngisho noma ngabe singahlukana ngokwezinhlangano, nanganoma yini enye, kodwa sizohlala sinaye emsebenzini wakhe. Uma umuntu esebenza kahle siye sithi KwaZulu usebenza kahle. Ngithi makabhasobhe ngoba ngizomvotela okhethweni olulandelayo. [Ihlombe.]

Ngithi kudadewethu kuzo zonke izifundazwe kufanele kubanjiswane. Le nkinga yezindlu kusafuneka siyibambe lapho ikhona. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[I would like to say to the hon Minister that at home in KwaZulu-Natal we see the fruits of her work. We say she should not fear anything, she must be proud, because she is performing miracles. We will always be with her even though she wears a red overall, and is operating the machine. We will always be with her, and we support her work. We know it is tough where she is heading, and we know the history - where houses were built for our people, the houses that we were abused for even though they were built with our money, and which we did not get, as they were not given back to us black people.

Although the Minister and we belong to different political parties, or differ, whatever the case may be, we will always be with her in her work. In KwaZulu-Natal when a person works well we say that person is doing well. I say she must watch out, because I am going to vote for her in the next elections. [Applause.]

I would like to say to my sister that there should be co-operation in all provinces.]

We will never cover the backlog if we do not look at what we must do about repossessed houses, and that is what the banks are doing to our people. Some of them do not even follow the procedures for repossessing a house. [Interjections.] They just come with a very big business. I started this in 1995, so I know what I am talking about.

Kukhona izinto ezimangalisayo okudingeka zibhekisiswe uma kungukuthi izindlu zabantu bakithi zithathwa zidayiswe nge-R100 bese zithengwa yizikhulu ezinkulu zezinye izinhlanga, abantu bakithi balale emnyango ngalolo suku ngoba bekhishiwe futhi kube kungalandelwanga nazindlela zokwenza izinto ngokufanele.

Ngithi-ke kumhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe makaqhubeke nomsebenzi wakhe. Ngibonga bonke abalapha eNdlini ngendlela abakhulume ngayo. Bengizokhuluma kakhulu kodwa izwi lami lincane futhi alilihle. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[There is something that needs to be looked at carefully if the houses of our people are going to be sold to big people of other races for R100, and our people have to sleep outside that day because they have been evicted, and that while the proper channels were not followed.

I would like to say that the hon the Minister should continue with her work. I would like to thank everyone in this House for the way they spoke. I would have spoken loudly, but my voice is faint and it is not good. [Applause.]] Mr G R KRUMBOCK: Chairperson, this House will …

An HON MEMBER: Is this your maiden speech?

Mr G R KRUMBOCK: … agree with the Minister when she said in her speech two days ago that thousands of stokvels and societies exist in our communities which are proof that our people are saving in an organised and disciplined fashion. The Minister is also correct when she refers to the willingness of people … if the hon member spent more time in the House she would know that this is not my maiden speech. The Minister is also correct when she refers to the willingness of people to contribute their own labour towards improving their housing.

In my own province of Mpumalanga I was struck by the fortitude and determination of people to take charge of their own lives and rebuild their houses after the devastation caused by floods just over two years ago.

The DA believes that the R2 479 contribution from each and every recipient, as a condition to receiving a subsidy, will promote a greater sense of ownership in every home owner and also combat dependency.

Careful regulations will need to be drawn up to ensure that the benefits associated with the home owners’ own contributions are not negated by issues such as substandard building, unnecessary bureaucracy and timing differences that may arise.

The DA also welcomes the increase in the housing subsidy, particularly at the lowest level, for those earning less than R1 500 income per month. However, taking into account both inflation and the weakness of our currency, it does not appear that this increase is a material one in real terms.

Another question to be asked is whether the new subsidy is sufficient to attract quality builders back into the low-cost housing market. Many builders, and particularly suppliers, do not even bother to submit tenders for low-cost housing contracts, because ``you get what you paid for’’ and their quality work and materials make them uncompetitive.

Recently I spoke to a major irrigation company who told me that they never bother to submit tenders for low-cost housing as competing suppliers included in their bill of materials much cheaper, substandard pipes that would burst within four to five years. Instead of losing out on every tender, this company has now simply geared its business towards replacing this substandard piping on a regular basis.

I would like to take a closer look at some aspects of the National Home Builders Registration Council which warrant further attention. Perhaps understandably, the NHBRC has always been a controversial institution and a great deal of intense debate took place before the NHBRC became a statutory body. Statistics supplied by the NHBRC to the KwaZulu-Natal Master Builders Association some four years ago indicated that 0,46% - or one house in every 217 - had genuine building problems that needed to be addressed. The question that was asked at the time was whether such a low level of building faults justified the setting up of a massive bureaucratic body such as the NHBRC.

The KwaZulu-Natal Master Builders Association argued at the time that the 1,3% NHBRC enrolment fee added significantly to the cost of an average 20- year bond and that the scheme, in effect, amounted to a transfer of wealth from home owners to the banking industry.

The NHBRC financial statements for the last two years indicate that an amount in excess of R263 million has been collected by the NHBRC, almost all of it in the form of enrolment and registration fees. Of this amount, R170 million has been absorbed by operating expenses - 64,6% of the funds collected. In 2002 alone, total operating expenses were just over R63 million. Of this amount, only R1,134 million was spent on repairing homes with building problems. The equivalent figures for 2001 were R1,506 million, out of total expenses of R75,990 million. In other words, out of a total of more than R229 million collected in the last two years, just R2 600 040 was needed to effect repairs to housing - 1,1% of the total collected.

Figures supplied by the NHBRC this morning indicate that there are currently approximately 166 000 houses enrolled under the NHBRC scheme. In effect, this means that in the financial year ending 31 March 2002, the total repairs effected by the NHBRC amounted to R6,83 per house enrolled.

In conclusion, I sincerely want to ask the Minister whether she is prepared to consider cheaper alternatives to the NHBRC or, alternatively, whether the Minister considers it justified that the scheme revert back to a voluntary basis.

Mr G E NKWINTI (Eastern Cape): Chairperson, we welcome the opportunity to explain some things in addition to those that the hon Minister has done. Because she has actually explained the situation concerning our province so well, I simply have to focus on a couple of things in order to add to what she has said.

Firstly, to put this into context, in the 2000-01 financial year, the Eastern Cape spent 94% of their budget. Of that 94%, R114 million was invested in 23 787 serviced land sites.

The top structure cost of this is R291 million. Building the top structures on these 23 787 serviced land sites, will take us two to three years, starting from the previous financial year. We cannot, on this earth, build 23 787 houses in one year. That underspending is therefore an accounting function because all of this money has been projectised.

Why is the Minister correct when she says some of the problems relate to legal technicalities, conveyancing, weaknesses in municipalities and in the Deeds Office. Firstly, most municipalities did not have institutional mechanisms to undertake housing development on a massive scale. We are now aggressively addressing this with municipalities.

Secondly, the Eastern Cape is serviced by the Deeds Office in Cape Town. The Western Cape government took a political decision, somewhere in the middle 1990s, to use only Act 112 and Act 113 of 1991, not the Development Facilitation Act. The result is that the Deeds Office in Cape Town does not prioritise Development Facilitation Act applications - that is from them, not from me - and these are the applications that come from the Eastern Cape. To process subsidy applications at the Deeds Office in Cape Town takes six to eight weeks. With regard to conveyancing, which is another factor mentioned by the Minister, a conveyancer in the Eastern Cape must have a correspondent in Cape Town who must handle his or her applications. Anything done incorrectly will have to be returned to the Eastern Cape. Sadly, some conveyancers either do not have the capacity - we have experienced this - or do not prioritise these applications because they are not paying. They share between the Eastern Cape and Cape Town.

With regard to the fourth point which the Minister mentioned, the impact of section 118 of the Local Government: Municipal Systems Act, I can only say that about 70% of the land stock of 23 787 serviced sites in the Eastern Cape are in the Bhofolo city municipality and the Nelson Mandela metropolitan municipality. Both these municipalities refused, particularly, to facilitate transfer of ownership registration in line with the explanations given by the Minister.

With the assistance of the Minister once more, the situation has been turned around. Suddenly these municipalities are back on board and actually leading the pack in terms of converting the serviced land stock into top structures.

What does this mean for the rapid construction of houses? It means that in every financial year, at least three months are wasted between Bisho and Cape Town. What is the flip side of that? It takes only one or two days to resolve any problem that we have with the Deeds Offices in Umtata and King William’s Town. Sadly, these two Deeds Offices do not handle even a quarter of our applications. The bulk of our applications are handled in Cape Town. But we are doing something about it.

We are aggressively building capacity in municipalities so that they have institutional capacity to handle housing development. We are literally mentoring some of the conveyancers in the province. I am not trying to be insulting to lawyers, but this is the case. We have engaged the Deeds Office in Cape Town. We met with them. We were surprised when they said: ``When was this law passed, by the way? We do not even understand what this law is for. There are other instruments.’’ This is not a joke. It was said at a meeting that we held with them after we made a complaint. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs drew their attention to it and sent them to us to discuss this matter. We made an offer and agreed with them that we would send our own staff to Cape Town, if needs be, to assist in processing these applications based on the Development Facilitation Act. They promised to create a dedicated unit in the Deeds Office in Cape Town to deal with DFA applications from the Eastern Cape.

We are, nevertheless, rapidly converting the 23 787 serviced sites into top structures. We are saying, therefore that we are on course towards overcoming these obstacles. We are steadily on course as well as providing our people with the kind of house that the Minister referred to as decent.

There is already strong evidence on the ground in the province. We therefore support the budget of the Minister. [Applause.]

Ms I L GCABASHE (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, I must assure you that I am a real she'' although referred to on the speakers' list as Mr’’. [Laughter.]

Today’s budget presented by the Minister bears a call for our people to play a meaningful role in housing themselves. Guiding us in our effort to fulfil our constitutional mandate of providing adequate shelter for our people are the vision and mission of our provincial department.

The mission states, among other things, that our task is to effectively and efficiently manage the implementation of national and provincial housing programmes in partnership with the relevant role-players and to provide adequate, affordable and sustainable shelter for qualifying citizens in KwaZulu-Natal. In line with our mission, our province has adopted programmes as the key priorities of the department. These are slums clearance, the finalisation of existing projects, hostel redevelopment, the development of new urban housing, special projects, the finalisation of old businesses, the implementation of capacity-building programmes, rural housing and the creation of rental housing stock.

Judging our priority programmes for the 2003-03 financial year, it is clear that we are still in line with our promise to provide housing to the poorest of the poor. However, we believe that our people cannot sit and wait for hand-outs from Government. That is why we say: ``Phezu komkhono’’. [Now is the time to work.]

With regard to rental stock, for the current financial year, we have put the emphasis on the creation of rental stock. This is the area where we feel that we have been lagging behind. The starter-housing programme benefits mostly the low-income group. This means that middle-income earners have been somewhat overlooked. They are not good enough for the banks to extend credit to build houses, and they earn slightly more than the criteria for qualifying for a housing subsidy. They have become victims of their circumstances. This form of accommodation has proven a hit with our middle-income earners in a project called Shayamoya Cato Manor in Durban.

The other reason we are pursuing this line is the fact that we understand that not everybody wants a free-standing house. Some people, mainly because of work commitments and marital status, cannot afford to put up at one place for their rest of their lives. While they are searching for their roots or working, we believe that they should also be housed. This is a new concept, and, as such, we understand that it will not be an overnight success but a process. We will need to buy in municipalities who will run with projects after construction. Esikhathini esiphambili izindawo zasemakhya bezisalele ngemuva ekuthuthukisweni kwezezindlu. Yilesi sizathu-ke esethu isifunda senze ukuba uhlelo lokwakhiwa kwezezindlu emakhaya lube ngolubalulekile ezinhlelweni zethu.

Yize zikhona izinkinga ngobunikazi bomhlaba kodwa impumelelo ikhona. Ingxenye yamakhosi anelungelo lokuphathwa kwemihlaba ezindaweni zawo ikujabulela kakhulu ukuza kwentuthuko yezezindlu ezindaweni zayo. Ngingayibalula eyodwa lapho uhlelo seluqalile khona. INkosi uKubheka endaweni yakwaKhathide eNyukhasela ithole izigidi ezingu-R36,8 okuzophuma kuwo izindlu eziyizinkulungwane ezimbili. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[In the past rural areas were left behind as far as housing development was concerned. It is for this reason that our province has regarded the programme for the building of houses in the rural areas as the most important of all our programmes.

Although there are problems with regard to land ownership, there is success. Some amakhosi who have land ownership rights in their areas have applauded the coming of housing development programmes to their areas. I can mention one inkosi in an area where this programme has been started. Inkosi Kubheka in the Khathide area, Newcastle, has received R36,8 million, with which 2 000 houses will be built.]

As a province, we welcome the increase in the subsidy as it will keep up with the rate of inflation. We encourage our people to house themselves, and we have decided that those who earn R1 500 per month and below and are not participating in the building of their houses through the People’s Housing Process will be required to contribute R2 479 upfront to obtain access to the subsidy of R20 300.

Lastly, we appreciate the allocation to our province for the current financial year and we support the budget. [Applause.]

Mr J O TLHAGALE: Madam Chair, hon Minister and hon members of this House, of all the material things that a person needs for his or for her survival, a house of whatever nature is the most important necessity. It is not only necessary for him or herself, but most importantly for his or her offspring.

Although my intention is not to scrape the healing wounds of the past, I only need to say that the provision of housing is being vigorously addressed, more than ever before. It is also gratifying to note that there is a vigorous focus on quality, rather than on the former quantity-driven focus.

The quality of the product is of inestimable value. It enhances the dignity and self-respect of the owner. It is my firm belief that as more houses of quality standard are built for our people who are, in fact, our support base, their dignity and self-respect will be restored.

The latest surveys indicate that houses built by the people themselves are of better quality and are more spacious than those built by contractors, who often aim at amassing as much money as possible and doing so at the expense of our countrymen. However, it is noted with appreciation that a special investigative unit has been set up to investigate allegations of maladministration, irregularities, fraud and theft related to the implementation of the housing scheme.

I am not at this stage aware of whether or not the unit is achieving success in solving the fraud and irregularities and also of what has happened to the contractors and individuals who have defrauded the scheme.

As I speak, there are media reports of cases of fraud and irregularities related to the RDP houses in Vryburg. However, I cannot elaborate further as I have not been able to verify the extent of the damage done there. It is noted that within the housing budget itself, housing development funding consumes the largest slice at approximately 88,8% of the overall budget expenditure of the department. The UCDP supports the Vote. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr J MASWANGANYI (Northern Province): Chairperson, Minister, MECs, members of the House, I want to take this opportunity to commend the Minister on his budget speech. Since 1994 the Limpopo province has been implementing various housing programmes in line with our Constitution and the overall housing policy framework. In doing so, we have managed to date to build more than 115 500 houses for the needy, amounting to R1,3 billion.

By 1 March 2002 the budget of R334 million was utilised for 25 000 houses, built without any roll-overs. By 31 March we recorded 100% expenditure in the Limpopo province, and we have blacklisted developers who constructed poor quality houses, in terms of the Minmec decision.

These programmes had a multiplier effect in terms of employment. We have managed to create two permanent jobs within each housing project, and more than 15 project-based jobs for skilled and unskilled labour.

We have also contributed significantly towards promoting women, the youth, the disabled, developers and contractors. For the financial year 2002-03, the department has allocated 1 708 units to the disabled developers at a cost of R34,672 million. We have allocated 2 844 units to women developers in terms of the Minmec decision, which is that 10% of the budget should be allocated to women developers, the majority of whom are blacks. This amounts to R57,7 million. To the youth developers we have allocated 4 344 units or houses, amounting to R88,1 million.

It is a fallacy that previously disadvantaged developers or emerging developers cannot deliver. As the province we have capacity-building programmes for emerging developers. We have also increased the number of staff, in particular inspectors. They prefer to be called project managers.

Beyond empowering the designated groups, this allocation is directed at completing outstanding projects and addressing the historical backlogs. Good news for the beneficiaries in the province is that this year we have increased the housing size from 40 square metres to 45 square metres, with a foundation deeper than 300 cm.

One of our policy imperatives for this financial year is to complete flood disaster housing under the rural housing subsidy scheme. This will also assist in the provision and upgrading of rural infrastructure. In line with our rural development strategy, we are building houses on existing sites in R188 villages, that is, in rural areas.

We fully support the new policy directives, which require beneficiaries to make a contribution of R2 400 towards the building of their houses. We also fully embrace the policy directive that beneficiaries who cannot afford a specific amount must contribute sweat equity, that is, beneficiaries must contribute towards labour in the construction of their houses.

In line with the Department of Housing, the Public Service Commission and monitoring evaluation practices, to ensure policy adherence and quality, the department has taken a decision to launch a detailed investigation into the implementation of the housing subsidy scheme.

The HIV/Aids impact and policy provision, particularly for orphans, gender equity, land availability, and rising land costs and contested land rights are amongst other key policy questions which require our collective wisdom in our endeavour to improve the lives of the poor. Let me convey to this House that the rural poor appreciates the Government’s delivery of houses.

We want to thank the hon the Minister for providing decisive leadership and, as the Limpopo province, we support the Housing Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Mnu P P DYONASE (IPhondo lasemNtla-Ntshona): Mhlalingaphambili, mandixolise kuqala ngenxa yokuba ilungu elihloniphekileyo uQabane Daki akaphumelelanga, nguye obemele kukuba lapha. Nangona kunjalo, liza kuqhubela phambili lona iphondo. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.) [Mr P P DYONASE (North West): Chairperson, I would like to render an apology for the hon Daki who could not attend, although he is the one who is supposed to be making the presentation here. The province, however, will proceed.]

The input of the province is going to be based upon what we have been given by your House, Chairperson, on 10 points. What we have done is only to record the challenges that are facing our province, and I am sure that all the provinces face these challenges.

In the North West, historic population growth rates indicate that 20 222 additional families enter the North West housing market each year. Approximately 16 000 of these households are eligible for housing subsidies and reside in structures that do not meet the minimum housing norms and standards.

It is evident from the needs and challenges of housing and infrastructure delivery that much remains to be done to ensure equitable, sustainable and integrated human settlement development throughout the province of North West. Housing delivery figures show that more than 16 000 houses were, for the first time, delivered in North West during 2001-02.

Mhlalingaphambili, siyayixhasa intetho yolwabiwo-mali yoMphathiswa wezeZindlu. [Chairperson, we support the Budget Vote of the Minister of Housing.]

I would like to go through these points that I have already spoken about. The first one is national housing policy and strategy. These are the challenges that the province is facing. To communicate effectively, a strategy is needed to disseminate new housing policies to communities. All the policies that are coming must not only just stay there in the office, but must go the people. That is the challenge that is facing us in North West. We have those ward committees and ward councillors who need training to understand all these processes.

Secondly, as far as human settlement policy is concerned, one of the challenges that we are experiencing is that some project proposals are not forthcoming from municipalities, and then they need to be aligned with integrated development plans. The critical one is that the broad programme should be integrated with the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, to assist the municipalities in addressing the bucket system. That is the problem that we have. We tried to obtain the funds in the province, but nobody puts anything there for us. We are saying that this is a critical issue that needs to be dealt with, particularly in the so-called old townships.

With regard to the housing subsidy scheme, the challenge is that so far no mechanism is in place for municipalities to collect the beneficiary contributions of R2 479. These are the things that we are grappling with. The issue of selling the RDP houses remains a problem in my province. There are criminals who say that they are going to put people in those houses. Instead of putting the beneficiaries in there, they put in people who do not even belong in those houses. Those are the criminals we are dealing with. They need to be arrested and we must make sure that the law takes its course.

As far as the issue of capacity-building is concerned, so far we are being assisted by Wits University regarding some of the courses that we think are good for municipal staff members and officials. We also have an agreement with Potchefstroom University. Another area with regard to capacity- building is that there is no targeted capacity-building. Municipalities do not necessarily send housing practitioners to do courses. Sometimes sending a person who does not really deal with issues of housing itself becomes another problem.

With regard to the People’s Housing Process projects, I will only mention three, although I have a lot on my list. There is a need to establish support centres in each municipality. Training is needed for people completing application forms as they are always incorrectly completed. Forms which are not completed cannot be considered by the department. We need somebody who is well trained to do all these things. The release of the establishment grant is always delayed by the bureaucratic processes. These are the challenges that we are facing.

As far as sustainable integrated development is concerned, we are saying that the challenge that we face is the poor response from other departments, for example, clinics, schools and sportsfields not being built when houses are built. Along the roads one will see all these small kids hitch-hiking to get to school some kilometres away. We have built these houses, but there are no schools, sportsgrounds and clinics. These are the challenges that we are facing in the province. In relation to the integration of housing and other developments with municipal integrated development planning processes.

Regarding the rural housing strategy, the challenge that we are facing is to find an equitable balance between rural and urban housing development needs. We are also experiencing a land availability problem and lack of support for some traditional authorities. There is a need to explore the possibilities of individual subsidies in rural areas to address the request by employers who are willing to assist their employees to get houses in those rural areas. There are employers who want to assist those workers.

Regarding hostel redevelopment, the challenge we are facing is that of the illegal occupation which is taking place, the nonpayment of rent and for services, and the provision of basic services. For instance, sanitation and water are neglected by some of the municipalities, but not all of them. There is the high unemployment rate that influences the payment for services.

As far as urban renewal is concerned, there is a need to promote high- density social housing options and the ideal of compact cities and towns vis-à-vis the urban sprawl. There is the problem of bridging the gap between the apartheid city or town and the townships on the periphery. Integrated development plans should address this gap through the spatial development framework.

The last challenge is the problem of redlining by banks. This remains a problem where beneficiaries were also excluded from the Servcon-Thubelisha rightsizing programme. I think that there is a cut-off date that is still hanging over us, in that those who were retrenched or could not pay by a particular date could not be assisted. Only those who were affected after that date could be assisted. I think that is the biggest problem that we are facing, particularly next to the mining industry.

These are some of the challenges that we thought that, as North West, we must share with our colleagues here. We are addressing them. There is progress in the platinum province, and I would like to tell the hon the Minister that …

Into oyenzayo siyayibona phaya, kwaye siyiqhwabela izandla. Siya hambili njengamany’amaphondo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] [We can see what the hon the Minister of Housing is doing out there and we applaud it. We are proceeding just like other provinces.] [Applause.]]

Ms N E HANGANA (Western Cape): Chairperson, Comrade Minister, hon members of the Council, today marks my maiden speech in the NCOP, but I can assure the Council that it will be hearing a lot from me. From the second debate and in future there will be vibrant debate coming from this side.

I rise in support of this Budget Vote. When I move around the areas of Cape Town, I see people exclaiming that this Government has given them houses for the very first time in their lives. In the same areas of Cape Town one finds people crying and screaming because of their homelessness.

Yesterday, for the first time in my term as MEC, there was a big march to the National Assembly, with my name on some of the placards. I was saved from a difficult situation by Mandla in the Minister’s office. He assisted me. Those things are part of our struggles. [Interjections.] It was a hot reception, but it is part of our ongoing struggle to give shelter to our people. We do not shy away from that struggle. Hon members will see housing developments taking place all over the Western Cape, but they will also find that there are a lot of informal settlements if they drive along the N2, especially where the poorest of the poor live.

This contradictory situation seeks to convey a particular message to all those involved in housing. That message is that our progressive policies have positively impacted on our people’s lives, but also that it is not enough. There are still many challenges ahead of us.

May I share with hon members some of the achievements of my department, as well as the challenges that it is facing. I would firstly like to deal with what hon member Majodina said about the underspending in the Western Cape. It was disclosed to me at my first Minmec meeting as MEC that the Western Cape in fact had underspent. I went back, frog-marched my department and I said we needed to spend that money. I told them we did not want any applications lying there with dust on them. We had to spend that money. That money has been spent fully within its budget year, so we have no underspending at all. [Applause.]

Between 1 April 2001 and 31 March 2002, a total of 22 307 housing subsidies were screened and approved. I want to believe that the pace at which we are moving is very fast. This is done in the spirit and context of complying with the presidential call of speeding up delivery.

With the subsidy having been increased to R22 300, we are even more optimistic that we will have the capital muscle to better our people’s lives. This means that we will have more money for the top structure, which will result in a bigger end product. I once again humbly appeal to the construction industry to adhere to the building standards and specifications outlined in the national housing code.

A total of 28 People’s Housing Process projects, with a subsidy value of over R74 million, have been approved. From this we are looking forward to building 7 861 houses. I personally consider this process to be the one that puts democracy in practice, because it makes sure that the government policies are people and needs-driven. As such my department will continue to support the PHP projects.

I am, however, concerned that there are elements that are hijacking the People’s Housing Process for the benefit of their own pockets. This is a people-driven process, and no one should be allowed to interfere with it. I will personally see to it that the PHP operates as smoothly as intended by the department. I have already instructed my directorates to come up with preventative measures in respect of these concerns.

To show my undying commitment to the People’s Housing Process, I have instructed the head of department to increase the staff component on the PHP sections so that it meets the demand. The head of department has issued permission for contract appointments in the interim.

Among the successful projects that we have is the, Integrated Serviced Land Project or ISLP. This is the most outstanding integrated development project in the entire country ever. In the Western Cape it operates in areas like Langa, Delft, the N2 highway and Vanguard Drive. It has helped build over 22 500 houses, it has serviced sites, upgraded schools, built community halls, helped with capacity-building, as well as promoted economic development initiatives.

I am happy also to report that the Western Cape government has extended this programme of the ISLP’s operational lifespan by another three years, as from 1 April this year. As a result of this project, more and more women are beginning to infiltrate, with excellence, the domain that was incorrectly perceived to be male-dominated. But, in general, the majority of our beneficiaries are women.

In order to cope with a natural disaster, an amount of R2,79 million has been granted for the Flood Relief Programme. I am also pleased to announce to hon members that the unicity has already made some tremendous strides in this regard. At Mfuleni about 4 236 sites are being serviced by civil contractors. [Interjections.] Of those sites, about 2 713 have been approved by the Housing Board as managed land settlements. The top structure is soon to follow.

The municipalities have already received a provisional budget, which will be utilised as soon as they come with their business plans, outlining their priorities. We would appreciate it if municipalities could assist the department in prioritising housing needs in their respective areas, because we do not want municipalities to come back to the department and say that it is the provincial housing department that has approved these projects. We want municipalities themselves to say what their priorities are, so that we as a province can follow those priorities.

Spending my entire housing budget is all I intend to do to improve the quality of homes for the poor. [Interjections.]

Mrs A M VERSFELD: [Inaudible.]

Ms N E HANGANA: In my second round I am coming for you. [Laughter.]

Mrs A M VERSFELD: I am not scared of you.

Ms N E HANGANA: My department has done a lot to improve the quality of the information dissemination process. [Interjections.] A housing desk was established to assist with the answering of all matters relating to housing. A month ago a provincial housing conference was held between 25 and 27 March. It was an outstanding conference and the first one of its kind in the country. It was attended by high-ranking delegated speakers.

A series of workshops preceded the conference to inform all the role- players in housing of the provincial housing plan, rental tribunal, land management and policy amendments. To enhance the housing delivery process, the capacity-building programme has been operating for the past four years. During the past year, about 160 candidates, consisting of provincial and local government housing officials and councillors, attended these courses in George.

The upgrading of the informal settlements is deemed the viable option, as opposed to resettling families, and thus destroying the social networks they have already forged over the years. In situ upgrading must, therefore, be vigorously pursued. In compliance with the Rental Housing Act of 1999, a provincial rental housing tribunal was established in July 2001, which was articulated here by the member of the ACDP. [Interjections.] Can you please protect me from this speaker who is out of order? [Interjections.]

I am pleased to announce that the tribunal has already dealt with a number of formal hearings. [Interjections.] The Western Cape rental tribunal is the only tribunal in the entire country that has so far dealt with disputes through formal hearings. [Interjections.] The tribunal’s operation is not only confined to the metropole, but it also deals with complaints within and outside the boundaries of the Western Cape.

In response to both national and humanitarian calls against HIV/Aids, the Chief Directorate of Housing has already acknowledged the plight of Aids sufferers, who are in most cases reduced to being street dwellers, after having been excommunicated by their families and friends. For this reason, we have already sold two hectares of land in Philippi for only R10 to an organisation that will build an Aids care centre. [Interjections.]

The centre will be run by Beautiful Gate Ministries, and will provide service to Aids orphans and those suffering from the virus. In partnership with our sister department and the private sector, the chief directorate is in the process of investigating alternative ways of accommodating the people rendered homeless by HIV/Aids. [Time expired.] [Applause.] Mr V V Z WINDVOëL: Sihlalo, uMhlon, nani bekunene, [Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members,] the national Minister has spoken, six MECs have spoken, and the chairperson has eloquently put our position and more importantly, she has done so in her mother tongue. [Interjections.]

As I sat here, I ticked off some of the other points which they were speaking about. I was left with about 18% that had not been mentioned. I consciously asked myself whether it would be wise to continue with my 10- page speech merely to give another version of what has been said already. [Laughter.] The MECs who spoke were from the ANC. The Minister, who spoke in a very informative and educative way, is also from the ANC, and we are left with nothing else but to conclude that the ANC is taking the absolutely correct direction in regard to housing people. [Applause.]

Housing remains one of our key post-apartheid challenges. If Mrs Versfeld listened attentively, she would have agreed with me that the previous regime, with which her party also shared seats in that parliament, left our people homeless and destitute. [Interjections.] I was very taken by what Mr Tlhagale was saying. He stopped just short of saying that his leader, Mangope, had not done anything in this regard. [Laughter.] The same goes for Mr Nyakane, who was so very positive. [Laughter.] His leader in the Transkei could also have done much more, but missed the opportunity.

I will therefore not proceed with my speech, save to say that we thank the department very much. What the Minister said really did show vision and indicated where South Africa is going in terms of housing people and restoring their dignity.

We must also thank the director-general of the department for the very informative briefing which we were given at our select committee meeting. It shows that she knows her story and has everything at her fingertips.

I will leave it to the Minister to respond to some of the noises which were supposed to be a maiden speech by the hon Krumbock. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] In my analysis I could not detect any political substance and I was only left with the conclusion that he was just representing those monopolies, the building and construction companies, rather than representing the interests of the homeless and destitute people. However, I will not blame the member much because it is his party that has deployed an administrator to be a politician. That person will become bored, and that is why the member was speaking about R6,83 and other things, and maybe that is also why he does not spend much time sitting in this House. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Chairperson, I would like to thank the MECs who are present here today and the special delegates for making time to come and share whatever they have with us. A special welcome to our new MEC, Ms Hangana, who was the chairperson of our portfolio committee in the National Assembly. The member is welcome and will fight the battle from another angle.

I also want to thank my team, which has always been available to do the work that is required of all of us and also to give me the necessary support. There is a member of the team here, Mr Frik Barnard, for whom I am told, this is possibly the last meeting and contact with this environment, because he is going on pension. [Applause.] But he tells me that he will continue somewhere else to do the professional and technical work that he has been doing. We wish him well.

Let me respond first to the issue of integration, which has emerged from most of the speakers from all sides. It is an issue that I think Government is seized with. I think we are making progress in that direction. We also have to be aware of the fact that integrated development also requires a high degree of co-ordination and co-operation at all levels, transversally and horizontally. There is no point in national government having the kind of integration we have if, when one goes to the provinces and the local authorities, one finds that they do not have it. It means that we are failing because there is a chain that has to be linked to the grass roots.

But we also have to realise that we have inherited a fragmented system, and we are still trying to unlock it and improve where we can, which is near impossible because what has been left on the ground spatially cannot be gotten rid of. All we can do, through our policy, is to have a different kind of approach that is integrated and will facilitate the building of communities and bridge the gap between those who were divided by railway, school, street or open space. It is all we can do for now with the little available land that we can lay our hands on.

It is obvious that we have inherited a dysfunctional system, but we also have to make sure that when we apply our IDPs, our planning at all levels, it should also incorporate investment in housing, so that we create an asset on the ground that, at the same time, changes the environment for the better for our beneficiaries. We should not just put that little house there. It must transform into something else and our policy has started doing that.

We have provided secure tenure. We have provided basic services with integrated budgeting from the different departments. I am saying ``integrated’’ despite the fact that we still deliver as separate departments, but our work and budgets meet on the ground, particularly in housing.

We have the bulk infrastructure invested through the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, the Department of Provincial and Local Government through the Consolidated Municipal Infrastructure Programme and sanitation through the Department of Water Affairs. At the same time, through our housing policy we also internally, within the parameters of the house, provide electricity, the connection of the internal water system and the piping and sanitation, so we just need to integrate those budgets. I also think that what Government is doing at national level hopefully is going to transmit and transfer to the other structures. We are now working as clusters. We are already attending to some of the problems that have been referred to in this House as cluster members.

I received the letter from the delegate from the Eastern Cape and transferred it to the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs to facilitate the application for land to be transferred for development purposes, since that power lies with Land Affairs. We have tried to do the same in some cases with applications from the Northern Province and Mpumalanga working as team. Actually it does speed up the process and accelerate delivery, so we will continue doing that, but we also have to be aware of the fact that some cases have already been approached from the integrated position of trying to see what is going to happen if governments begin to work together. We have Tsutsumani in Alexandra. That involved the Department of Housing, the Department of Provincial and Local Government, the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism and the Department of Sport and Recreation.

When we deliver our greening programme, namely ``one house, one tree’’, we have linked that effort between Housing, Environmental Affairs and Water Affairs. Even if it is minimal, it is beginning to work. Whilst looking at the lack of integration, we need to keep in mind that Government has already had an impact in terms of trying to find a way of making sure that we work in an integrated manner.

Last week in our housing awards, what we were trying to promote there was to emulate those municipalities that have attempted also to have an integrated approach to their development. The Bester project in Durban was awarded the trophy for making sure that they had an integrated approach. It is houses, a clinic, roads and a school and that is the road that we want to travel.

The social housing projects in Gauteng and especially the Newtown precinct, when we look at that whole precinct, represent an integrated kind of approach. The Housing Association of East London has tried to come up with that approach. They have instituted the initial investment into that and I am told that the rest of the development will follow. The Vanderley project in East London well reflects an integrated approach.

The Jobs Summit projects that we are funding through the Poverty Relief Fund and some of our subsidies are integrated approaches. We should be confident that Government is really making a huge attempt to make sure that we have our integrated approach worked into our system and then absorbed by those who have been given the task and the mandate to do exactly that.

Our urban renewal projects are tackled not at sectoral departments and units. We are working together as clusters. We have the rural development cluster convened by the Minister for Provincial and Local Government. We are going into this rural node, for example, to look at aspects of development and to agree on how we are going to co-ordinate our work in those provinces. Let me take, for example, the Kgalagadi in the North West. We moved in there as this cluster but our first project as a cluster is going to be to promote economic activity in that area. We are going to promote a project there. As Minister of Housing I am involved in nurturing goats, because at the end of the day we have people in houses who need employment. That is just an example of what we are trying to do.

With regard to urban renewal programmes such as Alexandra we spent R3 million and there have been two other successive budget allocations to reviving the area. The Departments of Provincial and Local Government, Land Affairs and Health have all come in and we are looking at our budgets and making sure there is money where there are these gaps. We need to fill those gaps. I would like to encourage our provincial authorities to make sure that these projects are supported on the ground.

We also have to acknowledge the fact that there is now better interaction between the national department and the provinces. I think our work is being integrated for the mere fact that there is better co-ordination. We talk more regularly than we used to do. We are making sure that the problems being experienced on the ground are transferred, even it is technically to the department. Our department has a team that goes out to make sure that we bridge the gap between the national and the provincial.

In the case of underexpenditure, our team has been in the province for some time to try and find out why the monthly reports that were coming in were indicating, even very early in the year, that we might have underexpenditure. We started dealing with those problems. It does not come as a surprise, because the linkages are there and the systems are beginning to work. I would like to confirm what the MECs have said here. We are going to solve the problem of underexpenditure. We can do very little about most of the reasons that have been stated here with regard to floods and emergencies. We can only act afterwards. We can only build when there is no rain. It is not an excuse. It is reality.

There are also other problems that are not of our own making. We are spending our capacity-building item in the budget. We have been spending since as early as 1996, when we started capacity-building. What happens is that when people acquire experience, they go away to the private sector. We have given them the knowledge. Once they have that knowledge base, they benefit from the private sector. There is very little we can do. All we can do is to continue to ask our people to think again about the money we used for empowering them and building their knowledge bases. We would really appreciate it if they would give a few of their years to the Department of Housing. In that respect we will be announcing very soon the steps taken to try and make sure that we get that money back in some way.

I do not want to offend the hon Krumbock, so let me make sure that I have the correct name here. The National Home Builders Registration Council is an outcome which emerged out of the Housing Consumers Protection Measures Act, as a statutory body that was going to assist to administer the warranty scheme and the registration of home builders. We predicted that there was going to be a 0,4% defect ratio and we calculated that based on what we were doing in terms of our budget and in terms of what was emerging on the ground.

We were also aware of the fact that we needed a fund that would be sustainable, but at the same time we had to ensure that it would be viable. In drafting the legislation we considered that there might be more money available than was projected, the 1,3% requested from developers as a registration fee. We did project that we might have some surplus in this investment. We were also quite aware of the fact that we still had a very huge backlog and we needed to make sure that we monitored each and every product that we put on the ground.

If we go back to what the registration council has been doing, we have been concentrating on the higher output group, from R1 501 up to the lowermiddle- income group. We looked at that scale to see what kinds of products we were getting and also to give the registration council an opportunity to set up institutional capacity on the ground. We are going to extend that responsibility to cover RDP products. The reasons are the following: We want to introduce into the environment good-quality developers and contractors. We want to give dignity to the industry. Secondly, we want to make sure that Government gets value for its money. We must make sure that we monitor the very products, the so-called RDP products. We want to make sure that we are not getting shoddy stuff, just because they are RDP houses.

We are also aware of the fact that we are going to have a very great impact on the actuarial data necessary to determine either a deficit or a surplus in the warranty fund. We can also only confirm that the status of the fund, after the subsidy market, will also allow us an opportunity at some stage to review. What is being commented on is a temporary affair. We are not covering the whole spectrum of the one million units. We are covering just less than 14% and we need to cover the entire industry.

I just wanted to say that the comments of the hon Krumbock should be subjected to the minimal amount that the registration council has been monitoring.

As to the cost and size of the house, I thought we needed to give a breakdown of how we are going to spend this money that we have, from R16 000 to R20 300. What we have in mind is that we have estimated the cost of land at about R332, which means that 1,6% of the subsidy will go to the land acquisition cost.

We are looking at the direct provision of services, roads, sanitation, water reticulation, storm water, street piping, etc. That will take 38,2%. Professional fees will be 6,5%. In total the land costs will amount to about R9 400 including all of these activities. The rest, which will be R10 900, will go to the top structure.

I want to say that this is just a reflection, because if we encourage our people to go out and seek competitive prices we might be able to maximise the utilisation of the subsidy, as people have done in the People’s Housing Process. When one goes to the People’s Housing Process and looks at the way they have costed their expenditure it is quite obvious that people have gone out of their way to go to different building materials suppliers to ask how much, for instance, a pipe a certain number of centimetres long to connect the water supply will cost. They compare this among suppliers, and because of those price comparisons, they have really been able to extend the size of their houses because they make sure that they go for the best price.

I was told that in KwaZulu-Natal - I do not know if it still applies - some of the People’s Housing Process entities have some kind of contract with Corobrik that lets them buy bricks at a discount. That is another element which we need to build into the People’s Housing Process, to try and make sure that our people begin to get into this construction in a businesslike manner, so that we are not exploited by building materials suppliers who might think that because we have increased the subsidy, they can push their prices up to unaffordable levels. We will not accept that. What we are trying to explain here is that our subsidy does not just go to the top structure; it also assists us to buy some of the other stuff that we need. When we look at it, we should look at it in that way.

There has also been the issue of corruption. We are quite aware that we have miscreants in our communities, people who disregard the law and the rules and dishonour the effort to reduce the levels of poverty. We have taken steps to address those kinds of issues. We have received reports from all provinces, even the Vryburg case that the hon member talked about, for example, and we have submitted those complaints to the task team that we have put into place, composed of auditors, investigators and lawyers. Very soon arrests are going to be made. We did not just want to rush into the issue, not knowing whether the complaints were administrative or management issues. We have to separate administrative shortfalls and management weaknesses from outright corruption and deal with the individuals accordingly.

They are going to be doing some work and we will be getting reports formally. We are supported in this instance by the SAPS, the prosecutor’s office, that is Mr Ngcuka’s office and the Scorpions and we are going to have the special investigation team making sure that whoever is involved gets the relevant information, including the Office for Serious Economic Offences.

We are on track in terms of the work. We are doing the job and we will be able to expose the culprits. Of course, we do have the consumer measures that are going to assist us to deal with the fly-by-nights, I do not have to go into those details.

Regarding the issues that have been raised by Mr Dyonase we are going to be talking to him about some of these issues. Some of them are already being taken care of. As for the savings that we have talked about and requested people to work towards, we have tried to find a formula which will link those savings to the national subsidy. We have also done a bit of work by looking at what other countries have done, particularly Chile, to see if we cannot link all of the available resources to the bank, the department and the saver. If that does not work, we will still be able to proceed as partners, Government and the communities, because we also have to build into our approach the issue of disappointment as has happened in the past. Whatever happens, it is going to be linked up.

At the same time we think when we are trying to enforce these savings we should not be thinking about how on earth poor people are going to do it. Poor people have have actually taught us a few things. Even before we pronounced on this issue, they were saving on their own. The federation here in the Western Cape was doing so as early as 1996, when we provided the R10 million support to the People’s Housing Process that had been identified by my predecessor. Already the federation has saved more than R234 000. Those are people in the informal sector, some of whom are unemployed and contributed sweat equity.

So we should not patronise them. Our people are ready to work. They have delivered more than 15 000 units without anybody pushing them. We have got to respect them, otherwise we are going to be taking away their dignity. They do not want to be fed like children.

On the issue of the eradication of informal settlements, our policies are already addressing that issue. We are engaged in in situ upgrading and the relocation of people who are settled on land that is not necessarily acceptable for human habitation. At the same time we are beginning to say we might not have available land next to areas of economic activity and that is why we are building upwards. Our rental policy and social housing are going to give us information on how we are going to manage this phase and the resources that we have, including management of the response from our beneficiaries. That is a subject outside of this debate because we have our social housing policy and Bill already on their way to Cabinet, so we will have an opportunity to have a detailed discussion on that matter.

Let me end by saying that we have achieved what we have achieved as a department because hon members have co-operated. Let us see that co- operation continue and let us continue to have the support that we are enjoying now. On our part, wherever possible, even if we do not have enough staff, we will be able to provide hon members with that support. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

          FUNERAL ARRANGEMENTS FOR THE LATE MRS F MATTHEWS

                           (Announcement)

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I have an announcement to make regarding funeral arrangements for the late Mrs Fikile Matthews, mother of the Chairperson of the NCOP. Today at 18:30 there is a memorial service at St Paul’s Church, Main Road, Rondebosch. On Saturday, 18 May, there will be a family service at home at 08:00 at the Gardens Groote Schuur Estate, Rondebosch. The funeral service will be on Saturday from 09:00 at St Paul’s Church, the same church where the memorial service is to be held.

The Council adjourned at 17:-03. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                       WEDNESDAY, 15 MAY 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister of Transport on 9 May 2002 submitted a draft of the
     South African Maritime and Aeronautical  Search  and  Rescue  Bill,
     2002, as well as the  memorandum  explaining  the  objects  of  the
     proposed legislation, to the Speaker and the Chairperson  in  terms
     of Joint Rule 159. The draft has been  referred  to  the  Portfolio
     Committee on Transport and the Select Committee on Public  Services
     by the Speaker and the  Chairperson,  respectively,  in  accordance
     with Joint Rule 159(2).


 (2)    The Minister for Provincial and Local Government on 10 May  2002
     submitted a draft of the  Local  Government:  Municipal  Structures
     Amendment Bill, 2002, as well  as  the  memorandum  explaining  the
     objects of  the  proposed  legislation,  to  the  Speaker  and  the
     Chairperson in  terms  of  Joint  Rule  159.  The  draft  has  been
     referred  to  the  Portfolio  Committee  on  Provincial  and  Local
     Government  and  the  Select  Committee  on  Local  Government  and
     Administration by the Speaker and  the  Chairperson,  respectively,
     in accordance with Joint Rule 159(2).


 (3)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister for Provincial
     and Local Government in the National Assembly on 14  May  2002  and
     referred to the Joint Tagging Mechanism  (JTM)  for  classification
     in terms of Joint Rule 160:


     (i)     Local Government: Municipal Structures  Amendment  Bill  [B
          22 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75) [Bill and prior notice
          of its introduction published in Government Gazette  No  23247
          of 19 March 2002.]


     The  Bill  has  been  referred  to  the  Portfolio   Committee   on
     Provincial and Local Government of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to the  JTM  within  three  parliamentary
     working days.




 (4)    The following Bill was introduced by the Minister  of  Transport
     in the National Assembly on 14 May 2002 and referred to  the  Joint
     Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of  Joint  Rule
     160:


     (i)     South African Maritime and Aeronautical Search  and  Rescue
          Bill [B 23 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec  75)  [Explanatory
          summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction published
          in Government Gazette No 22509 of 7 September 2001.]


     The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on  Transport
     of the National Assembly.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to the  JTM  within  three  parliamentary
     working days.

National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 (1)    Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:


     Bill passed by National Assembly on 15  May  2002  and  transmitted
     for concurrence:


     Media  Development  and  Diversity  Agency  Bill  [B  2B  -   2002]
    (National Assembly - sec 75).


     The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee  on  Labour  and
     Public Enterprises of the National Council of Provinces.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Labour:

 Preliminary Annual Report of the Department of Labour for 2001-2002 [RP
 70-2002].
                        THURSDAY, 16 MAY 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The following changes have been made to the membership of  Joint
     Committees, viz:


     Joint Budget Committee:


     Appointed: Hlangwana, NL (Alt); Masutha, M T (Alt); Sikakane, M R.

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 14 May  2002  in  terms  of
     Joint Rule 160(6), classified the following  Bills  as  section  74
     Bills:


     (i)     Constitution of the  Republic  of  South  Africa  Amendment
             Bill [B 16 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 74).


     (ii)     Constitution  of  the  Republic  of  South  Africa  Second
             Amendment Bill [B 17 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 74).


 (2)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 14 May  2002  in  terms  of
     Joint Rule 160(6), classified the following  Bills  as  section  75
     Bills:


     (i)     Land and Agricultural Development Bank Bill [B 12  -  2002]
            (National Assembly - sec 75).


     (ii)    Financial  Services  Ombud  Schemes  Bill  [B  13  -  2002]
            (National Assembly - sec 75).


     (iii)Insolvency Amendment Bill [B 14 - 2002] (National  Assembly  -
            sec 75).
     (iv)    Mineral and Petroleum Resources Development Bill  [B  15  -
            2002] (National Assembly - sec 75).


     (v)     Probation Services Amendment Bill [B 18 -  2002]  (National
            Assembly - sec 75).


     (vi)      Prevention   of   Corruption   Bill   [B   19   -   2002]
            (NationalAssembly - sec 75).


     (vii)   Health Donations  Fund  Act  Repeal  Bill  [B  20  -  2002]
            (National Assembly - sec 75).


 (3)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 15 May  2002  in  terms  of
     Joint Rule 160(6), classified the following Bill as  a  money  Bill
     (section 77):


     (i)     Private  Security  Industry  Levies  Bill  [B  11  -  2002]
          (National Assembly - sec 77).

National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 The following papers have been tabled  and  are  now  referred  to  the
 relevant committees as mentioned below:


 (1)    The following paper is referred to the Joint Standing  Committee
     on  Intelligence  and  the  Select  Committee   on   Security   and
     Constitutional Affairs for consideration:


     Financial Statements of the Secret Services Account  for  2000-2001
     and the Report of the Auditor-General on the  Financial  Statements
     of the Secret Services Account for 2000-2001 [RP 30-2002].


 (2)    The following paper is  referred  to  the  Select  Committee  on
     Labour and Public Enterprises:


     Report and Financial Statements of Eskom for 2001.


 (3)    The following papers are referred to  the  Select  Committee  on
     Local Government and Administration:


     (a)     Strategic Plan of the Department of  Provincial  and  Local
          Government for 2002-2005.


     (b)     Report and Financial Statements of the Board for  Municipal
          Accountants for 2000-2001.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology: (a) Annual Report and Financial Statements of the William Humphreys Art Gallery for 2000-2001.

 (b)    Annual Report and Financial Statements of the War Museum of  the
     Boer Republics for 2000-2001, including the Report of the  Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001.


 (c)    Annual Report and Financial Statements  of  the  Engelenburghuis
     Art Collection for 2000-2001, including the Report of the  Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001.

1. The Minister of Communications:

 Annual   Report   and   Financial   Statements   of   the   Independent
 Communications  Authority  of  South  Africa  (ICASA)  for   2000-2001,
 including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
 for 2000-2001 [RP 134-2001].