TUESDAY, 21 MAY 2002 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 14:04.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col. 0000

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) notes the statement by Mr Carl Werth, previous regional chairperson of the DA in Gauteng North and leader of the DA caucus in Tshwane Metro City Council, that the DA - (a) was built on a platform of treachery;

   (b)  is a right-wing party that is inevitably becoming more
       authoritarian;


   (c)  prescribes ethics and morals for the Government, but does not
       apply the same standards to its activities;


   (d)  in fact meant ``fight black'' with their ``fight back'' campaign
       and their black public representatives were nothing more than
       window-dressing;


   (e)  often uses the ``K'' word; and


   (f)  has sacrificed liberal democracy on the altar of Mr Leon's
       ambition;

(2) further notes how hastily this prominent leader in the DA, who has received countless letters of praise from Mr Leon, is now referred to as a thoroughly unprincipled man'',motivated entirely by resentment and a desire for revenge’’, by his own party; and

(3) is of the opinion that many other prominent principled DA leaders are also going to be called ``thoroughly unprincipled’’ after the crossing of the floor legislation comes into effect.

[Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) notes the results of a poll by Probe, a respected Zimbabwean-based research organisation, presented at the 55th Annual Conference of Gallup International, which operates in 50 countries;

(2) notes that the research by Probe indicates, inter alia, that -

   (a)  the needs of Zimbabweans go far beyond the land question, which
       only ranks seventh in the list of priorities or ordinary
       Zimbabweans today;


   (b)  43% of Zimbabweans only wanted peace to prevail;


   (c)  more than 40% were hoping to economic intervention to curb
       rising unaffordable food prices; and


   (d)  the voters' roll in Zimbabwe was only approximately 50%
       accurate, raising questions on the remaining 50%; and

(3) in view of the recent statements on the failure of South African foreign policy on Zimbabwe and the obvious lack of appreciation on the role we have tried to play to stabilise the situation in that country and the region, calls for an urgent review of South African foreign policy towards Zimbabwe.

                    BUS ACCIDENT IN KWAZULU-NATAL

                         (Draft Resolution) Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes with appreciation the fund set up by the IFP and the Zululand District Municipality to assist the families of the 23 victims who died in a bus accident last week;

(2) further notes that 19 people died instantly, four died on their way to the hospital and the survivors are all reported to be in a critical condition at the Ngwelezane Hospital; and

(3) therefore expresses its condolences to the affected families and friends.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 32 - Transport:

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! I take this opportunity to welcome the hon the Minister of Transport, Mr A M Omar, and call upon him to address the Council.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Chairperson, hon members, delegates and hon MECs here present, Schedule 4 of the Constitution declares public transport to be a matter of concurrent competence of national, provincial and local government. It is therefore appropriate to make public transport the subject matter of this address. The Constitution also prescribes the way concurrency operates in our country. These provisions are taken into consideration in our approach to public transport.

Public transport, more specifically public passenger transport, is crucial for our economic wellbeing and growth. It is also crucial in order to address social needs. Transport performs both an economic and a social function. It is an important input sector to promote growth of the economy. Public passenger transport must ensure that the millions of workers who rely on public tranport for their conveyance to and from work, do arrive to start work on time and in good shape.

It must ensure that they return home at the end of a day’s work to enjoy the maximum possible time with their families and friends, to meet their social obligations and, indeed, to ensure that they have time to rest their bodies and minds, fit and healthy to start work the next day. Production and the quality of work are dependent on the quality, efficiency, reliability and affordability of public transport.

There is the important social dimension, that is, public transport must enable the millions who rely on that mode to reach their families, friends, places of worship, and places of sport and recreation. It must connect human beings with each other. It must help, through connecting people, to build communities and help to forge the nation. In other words, transport is a great facilitator.

Tourists and visitors will find South Africa so much more attractive if our public transport system is safe, efficient, affordable and reliable. In the light of soaring costs, I have no doubt that public transport has become more important than ever. We must work hard to meet public expectations. Let us work hard to make public transport the pride of our nation. We must put public transport high on the list of basic needs, and I ask hon members, who are closer to local communities, to say so loud and clear.

We do not have a public transport system which serves the whole country equitably. The legacy of racial discrimination remains reflected in our transport system, as also the urban bias.

We only have commuter train services in the six metro areas, namely Cape Town, Durban, Johannesburg, Pretoria, Port Elizabeth and East London. These areas are also served by buses, minibus taxis and sedan taxis. In all other areas the public has to rely on buses and minibus taxis and sometimes sedan taxis. In many rural areas, people are still conveyed on LDVs, bakkies, open trucks and even tractor-drawn cattle trucks. Others used animal-drawn vehicles whilst many have to walk.

I want to turn to the question of rail. We have not been able, over the past 20 or more years, to extend our commuter train services, but over the past few years we have been able to make some improvement - railway stations, transport interchanges like Park Station, Cape Town, Mowbray and others which serve as a model for intermodal interchanges. We have implemented programmes to refurbish and upgrade rolling stock and signalling systems. By the end of this year, just under 100 coaches, fully refurbished, looking like new, will be on our railines. We do want to make rail transport more attractive.

Besides infrastructural improvement, two matters are worth noting. The first relates to the rail safety regulator. Last week the NCOP passed the National Railway Safety Regulator Bill. This is a gigantic step forward. Shortly we will be in a position to proceed with the appointment of members of the board and then the chief executive officer. The regulations are already being drafted and premises identified. The National Railway Safety Regulator Bill makes provision for a rail safety management system in which the regulator will prescribe standards and monitor and enforce compliance, whilst an operator will not be able to operate unless it has a railway safety plan duly approved by the regulator and complies fully with the plan. The Bill makes provision for greater accountability on the part of operators and also for greater transparency, better enforcement and compliance. The Bill deals in the main with the operational safety and security of persons and property arising from operational safety issues.

The second issue relates to the security of commuters at stations and on trains. Cabinet has in this regard given the green light for the creation of a special division of the SA Police Service, whose function it will be to provide security at national key points, but also at stations and other transport points.

An interdepartmental task team is hard at work, led by the Department of Safety and Security, and will soon submit its implementation proposals to Cabinet. We are confident that we will be able to make rail transport more attractive.

Also the Shosholoza Meyl will, in terms of the restructuring plans agreed to with trade unions, be brought under one umbrella together with Metrorail and the SARCC in an institutional reform, so that we will have one streamlined passenger train service throughout South Africa. When people have to travel long distances, we would also like to see them making greater use of our rail transport. The railway lines to Khayelitsha will be extended to Baden Powell, involving the building of two additional stations, and Mabopane will also benefit from the building of an intermodal interchange, which is currently in progress.

The Labour department is looking at the issue of occupational safety and working hours for drivers and other workers. Through the Transport Education and Training Authority, Teta, we have a programme in place for the training of train drivers and other personnel to ensure high-quality service as we go forward.

Over the last number of years commuter rail has experienced financial difficulties, and here I turn to the problem. Cabinet had to be approached annually for additional funding related to operational and capital funding requirements. National Treasury made a substantial increase in the capital allocation in terms of the current MTEF budget cycle, but no additional allocation was made for operating subsidies. Currently we also face huge financial problems, as previously indicated. The current rail commuter services cannot be provided at the level of operational funding which has been provided for in the MTEF baseline allocations. The SA Rail Commuter Corporation is contractually committed, given its contract with Metrorail, to expenditure which makes up over 95% of its budgeted expenditure. Any potential reduction in the remaining 5% of expenditure could not be meaningful had it indeed been possible.

The only way in which the SARCC budget could be approved to correspond to the available funding would be to renegotiate the service levels stipulated in the current agreement with Metrorail for the provision of commuter rail services, combined with increases in passenger fares. However, the required savings would only be possible through major service reductions, such as cancellation of after-hours and weekend service altogether, in conjunction with major increases in passenger fares. These drastic measures and very unpopular measures would, of course, have major consequences and would directly and adversely affect Government objectives of poverty alleviation. I sincerely hope that such drastic steps will prove unnecessary.

I can also indicate that the Department of Transport, in co-operation with the Department of Public Enterprises and other roleplayers, has just finalised a national rail transport policy for South Africa and a detailed strategic rail transport plan. The policy document outlines Government’s vision and objective for railways, and the plan is a detailed action framework to address the key challenges affecting the railway sector. Approval of the policy and plan by Government will result in a more comprehensive programme of rail improvement throughout South Africa. Hopefully, this will be accompanied by appropriate funding.

I turn to bus transport, and should indicate at this stage that the National Land Transport Transition Act makes provision for the complete restructuring of road-based transport in South Africa. It makes provision for national transport planning, provincial planning and local planning. Over the next few years municipal public transport planning at local government level will be strengthened. In anticipation of this, a good co- operative arrangement already exists between national, provincial and local governments, especially at the metro level.

The restructuring of the bus industry takes account of this development. In the past the industry was dominated by a few monopolies holding lifelong permits and covering a large number of routes. In line with the NLTTA, the lifelong permits are currently being substituted by five-year operating licences. Routes are being broken up into smaller packages, thereby making it possible for smaller operators to tender. We are moving from negotiated agreements to a system of competitive tendering. The new system has allowed black entrants - men, women and companies - to enter the bus industry. It also allows those involved in the taxi industry to enter the bus industry, thereby ending the Chinese wall between the two.

In moving from the old system to the new, we have run into some difficulty. Because the planning regulations were not in place, provinces were not able to finalise their transport plan and, therefore, moving to the competitive tendering system was then delayed. New regulations will come into operation on June 2002 and the national department will assist the provinces to develop provincial transport plans. Over the next few years, therefore, and without sacrificing the standard of service, we will see the flowering of black participation in the bus industry.

But once again, the current financial pressures need to be mentioned, because they are enormous. Our baseline allocation for operational costs is inadequate. If the current allocations for operational cost increases remain at current levels and are not improved, levels of subsidised services will have to be reduced. Again, as in the case of commuter rail, we hope sincerely that this will not be necessary.

I turn to rural transport and development. The plight of rural people is well known and well documented. Communities living in rural areas are the most disadvantaged people as they are faced with abject poverty and are being excluded from the social and the economic mainstream. Mobility and access to transport facilities are essential to their everyday life in order to break their isolation and allow them to become active participants in developing their lives.

The challenge is: How do we facilitate this change? It is acknowledged that rural transport has been neglected in the past because of lack of strategic guidance in rural transport. As an intervention to the situation, the Department of Transport, nationally and provincially and together with local government, is engaged in a number of initiatives. Firstly, it is engaged in the provision of nonmotorised transport, animal - and even human-drawn carts. In the next few months the department will roll out the nonmotorised transport programme in the Kgalagadi and Botlhabela presidential rural nodes. This is a new programme, which has four subcomponents to be delivered.

The first is the promotion of ownership and usage of a variety of rural transport operations, human- or animal-drawn carts, amongst the low-income rural households and at local project level.

Second is the creation or improvement of on-road and off-road appropriate safe rural transport infrastructure. On-road infrastructure includes access roads, low-level access bridges and so on, and off-road infrastructure includes footpaths, sidetracks, as well as various safety gadgets.

The third subcomponent is alleviating rural poverty by promoting the economic as well as the strong industrial dimension of the NMT project’s operations and infrastructure. This will be through exploiting to the maximum the local expertise in running and sustaining the programme. The fourth component is impact assessment and programme evaluation. Similar to Shova Kalula, our bicycle programme, the main objective of this component is to provide meaningful contributions to the rural transport strategy.

I turn to the Shova Kalula National Bicycle Transport Strategy. In the previous financial year the department, provinces, the National Roads Agency and Afribike implemented phase one of Shova Kalula. This involved setting up 11 shops in seven provinces, in mostly rural areas. Over 5 000 low-cost bicycles were distributed, fewer than we hoped for, but at least the distribution of 5 000 has been achieved.

We are now ready to move into the second phase. The National Roads Agency has issued an open tender to bicycle product suppliers for the supply of mostly new bicycles. What Shova Kalula is teaching us is that we need to promote nonmotorised transport much more aggressively, as it is something that improves the lives of our people, requires less of the scarce funding we have than motorised transport, and can be implemented reasonably quickly.

I turn to rural transport. This year the department embarked on phase two of a process of finalising the formulation of a national rural transport strategy. Phase two is taking shape within an overarching Government framework of promoting sustainable rural development under the heading of the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme or strategy, commonly known as the ISRDS.

During phase two the department will be pursuing an incremental approach to solving rural transport problems, as well as rural development. This will entail engaging in practical as well as visible strategic planning and also delivering action-oriented interventions.

In respect of urban renewal programmes, we are currently busy with projects in four of the urban renewal nodes, Khayelitsha, Kwamashu, Galeshewe and Alexandra. In Khayelitsha we have started the process of extending the commuter rail line by just over four kilometers. The design for the extension of the line and two stations from Khayelitsha to Baden Powell will be finalised by the end of the year, and consultants for the building of the line and two stations will be appointed by March 2003.

We are currently in consultation with the provincial and local authorities regarding the building of an intermodal facility in Kwamashu in KwaZulu- Natal. It is envisaged that various funding options, such as public-private partnerships, will be tested as part of this project.

The department is embarking on a bicycle project in Galeshewe. The council there is already busy with developing bicycle paths in the area.

Can I just briefly mention the very important issue of transport for the disabled. We are in the process of finalising a strategy to provide access to transport for disabled persons. The possibility of making provision for accessible vehicles on subsidised bus contracts is also being considered. In the meanwhile in a number of cities there are some interim measures in place, and I am sure that our MECs who are here will be able to indicate in the very short time that they have for this debate, what they have been doing.

Let me refer briefly to the minibus taxi transformation process. First I will mention the Be Legal Campaign - we all know about that. From the current reports received from the provinces, indications are that the Be Legal Campaign yielded far more positive results in terms of legalising illegal operations that existed before. Six provinces are almost done with the Be Legal exercise, while three are nearing completion.

We are currently faced with challenges in terms of speeding up the processing of the applications received, to ensure that permanent operating licences are granted to those who qualify to receive them. Consistent with this development is the challenge of route verification that must be done not only on applied routes but also on routes on which operations take place.

Then is the democratisation process. Again, we have reported on this before. That process started at a lower level with associations, then moved to a higher level, and then to provincial elections, and eventually the national elections that saw the formation of the South African National Taxi Council. The national elections ended in September 2001 with the formation of a more democratically and fully representative structure that the Government could liaise with.

Since the democratisation process, we have seen more democratic representivity, and greater democratic practice within the taxi industry taking place than ever before. The industry is now united and more joint decisions are being taken without much fear of reprisals, less violence, intimidation, harassment, fights over routes and general lawlessness within the industry. Some of these elements still exist but less than before.

Briefly on recapitalisation, I can say that now that the industry is united, it is more formalised, and the Be Legal Campaign is nearing its end. We are able to proceed with the recapitalisation programme, in full co- operation with the industry. There is only one outstanding issue, and that relates to the electronic management system. Government is in discussion with the South African National Taxi Council. Once agreement has been reached and the best and final offer process completed, Government will immediately announce the winning bids.

In the meanwhile consultations are taking place within Government with a view to finalising all the details relating to the operation of the recapitalisation programme. Let me conclude. Time does not permit me to deal with the issues of road safety and infrastructure development, but they are very important. There is progress in the implementation of the nine projects identified under the Road to Safety strategy. The infrastructure fund launched by Government, including the municipal infrastructure fund, will transform South African roads over the next five to ten years. There are many potholes today; they will become a thing of the past. There are no roads in many rural areas. Over the next decade, that will become a thing of the past. Our road network, national, provincial and local roads, including rural roads, will meet the social and economic needs of our country and our region. As part of SADC and as part of the African Union, with Nepad as its flagship, South Africa will play its rightful role, and transport will play its rightful role to contribute to a better life for all in our country.

Finally, I thank the committee of this House dealing with transport. Over the past year they have done an outstanding job and furnished us with co- operation. Especially to Comrade Penny Majodina, we thank her very much for her co-operation and that of the committee. Lastly, to my officials I want to say that they have done an outstanding job over the past year. [Applause.]

Ms P C P MAJODINA: Chairperson, let me start by apologising to my constituency in Sterkspruit in that I did not have time today to prepare my speech in Xhosa. I owe that apology to those rural masses. Dignified Minister of Transport, Dr Omar, distinguished members of the executive council, special delegates and hon members of this august House, I pass my warm greetings to you all.

I appreciate this Budget Vote today, which has something unusual compared with that of other departments. A huge allocation is made for deliverables with the very minimum for administration. In order to achieve policy strategy and implementation, we need such a budget. The Minister needs to be congratulated on decreasing fatalities during the festive Easter season through the Road to Safety'' strategy and its component,Arrive Alive’’. Driver fitness and vehicle fitness become cornerstones of this strategy.

Driving schools need to be regulated and accredited. We cannot allow a situation in which money will cost us our lives. There are 1001 driving schools which are not even standardised. This practice must come to an end. We cannot allow anyone to gamble with our people’s lives.

Regarding vehicle fitness, we need periodic roadworthiness testing. The Northern Cape’s model roadworthiness machines are what this country needs. Roadworthiness testing must be done along the roadside as part of law enforcement on the roads.

I am a rural girl, from the mountains in the northern part of the Eastern Cape, where I represent the rural masses of Sterkspruit. The rural areas suffer from an infrastructure backlog, especially with regard to roads. This, in turn, inhibits the provision of an affordable and efficient transport system for the rural people. The department has identified a rural transport strategy as one of its priorities in order to address rural transport needs.

The President, in his state-of-the-nation address, identified integrated rural development as a critically important aspect. However, the Department of Transport’s budget allocation does not reflect rural roads as a priority, despite calls that were specifically made in this House. Furthermore, the budget does not identify specific programmes aimed at addressing rural transport issues. The Minister’s last closing remarks also tried to shift me in this arrogant approach but I am not going to retreat. That is a shortcoming of this budget.

Development continues to be biased towards urban settlements. Rural communities are the most vulnerable to poverty since they are cut off from basic services. Transport is essential in accessing basic services and making a livelihood. Rural communities are denied this right in many respects. Owing to poor roads, rural communities do not have access to proper, safe and reliable public transport.

Niyangxola mama uMantlabathi apho, kwaye niyandiphazamisa. [Mrs Mntlabathi, you are making a noise over there and you are disturbing me.]

The issue of rural roads and rural transport needs to be attended to as a high priority, through the integrated rural sustainable transport framework. There is, therefore, a need for the Department of Transport and the Department of Public Works to work jointly and come up with an integrated plan to address the issue of roads. A safe journey needs safe car; a safe car needs a safe road; a safe road and a safe car will therefore deliver a better life.

There is no doubt that the Department of Transport has made significant progress towards addressing the challenges that are facing transport in South Africa. However, there are still pressing issues that need to be viewed as priorities so that the needs of our people, especially the rural poor, are taken into account.

The history of transport in South Africa has seen a continual increase in the use of roads as the preferred mode of transport, but the introduction of the National Railway Safety Regulator should assist in preventing rail accidents and promote rail as the preferred mode of transport.

The democratisation of the taxi industry was a major achievement in the public transport sector in South Africa. This was also a good start for the regulation and formalisation of the taxi industry. However, all these achievements have come to a standstill owing to the lack of agreement among the Department of Trade and Industry, the National Treasury and the Department of Transport with regard to the funding of this project. This undermines all the major achievements towards the regulation and formalisation of the taxi industry. This needs to be attended to as a matter of urgency, so that the taxi recapitalisation process can be finalised.

One of the main concerns is that the cost of the proposed vehicles is rising rapidly, as we can see from the rand versus the dollar. This, in turn, increases the overall funds required for this project. The delays are also likely to bring back chaos and violence in the taxi fraternity.

Another area of concern is the department’s oversight of its agencies, the SARCC, Acsa and Sanra. In many instances, these agencies are not complying with the legislation and policies. How does the department exercise oversight of activities of its agencies? For example, if Sanra is given funds for poverty alleviation by the Department of Transport, how does the department ensure that Sanra spends the funds accordingly?

The transport subsidy is still highly fragmented. Currently, only 35% of the commuting public is subsidised. There is definitely a need to expand this service to new areas with the same needs. There is a need to ensure that vulnerable groups benefit from the transport subsidy. These people, who need to be supported since they have to travel long distances to access basic and essential services, include disabled passengers, old age pensioners and scholars.

No inroads have been made into the bus subsidy issue, which is still biased in favour of a few previously advantaged companies. Surely, there is something wrong with this? Let us take practical steps.

In conclusion, significant strides have been taken towards the realisation of safe, reliable, sustainable and integrated transport. However, there is a lot that needs to be done to ensure that the transport industry is characterised by easy and equitable access, by safety standards, and by a regulated and formalised taxi industry with professional service. [Applause.]

Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon special delegates and colleagues, it is with some trepidation that I stand up to speak immediately after that fine specimen from the rural hills of the Eastern Cape. [Laughter.]

Three programmes were identified in order to meet the requirements of the Department of Transport’s mandate to expand and improve transport infrastructure and to enhance the safety of all users of public transport, namely administration; regulation and safety; and policy, strategy and implementation. I would like to dwell a little on the third programme, that is policy, strategy and implementation.

It is not gratifying to reflect on the massive disparities that existed and were inherited by the new and fledgling democracy that was ushered into South Africa in April 1994. One of the most obnoxious aspects of the apartheid regime was the Group Areas Act, which banished poor communities to the outer peripheries of urban areas into townships, ghettos and squatter camps.

These were, of course, glorified labour camps because, while the nonwhite peoples were expected to keep the factories, gold and diamond mines running, the houses clean, garden and street curbs tidy and petrol pumps working during the day, they had to disappear at night. They had to vanish literary into thin air. After all, in the words of a famous or infamous nationalist Minister - I think it was Piet Koornhof - blacks were ``temporary sojourners’’ in the cities during the day.

The harsh reality that existed then, and exists today, is that long distances had to be travelled by especially the poor communities to their workplaces and other destinations. So we understand what a mammoth task the Department of Transport has on its hands to meet the challenges and ensure that whether public transport is by bus, taxi or railway train, it has to be accessible, efficient and equitable. The culture of human rights was certainly missing from the apartheid menu then.

South Africans cannot be treated without dignity and with disdain as third- class citizens any longer.

The hon the Minister, in a previous address, admitted that traffic law enforcement left much to be desired. The infringement of traffic rules and regulations is occurring daily in our roads. My party wishes to underline the desirability, indeed the necessity, of visible policing and a professional commitment to traffic law enforcement.

There is a serious shortfall of traffic officers to monitor the almost 6 million registered vehicles on South African roads. However, my party welcomes the new thinking by the department with regard to raising the entry level of those wishing to become traffic officers, from Standard 8 to Standard 10. Such a move can only mean that fraud and corruption will be minimised. The ethos of upholding professional traffic officers cannot be underestimated in this context.

The focus of the department should move, as quite rightly mentioned by the hon Minister, to rural road development in addition to other priorities. I would like to refer to a newspaper article that appeared yesterday in one of KwaZulu-Natal’s daily morning papers, the Natal Mercury, with the headline is: Repairs to appalling road put on hold. The provincial department of transport is under growing pressure to upgrade urgently the notorious P236 main road to Uvongo. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr D NEER (Eastern Cape): Chairperson, hon Minister, Comrade Dullah Omar, hon members of the NCOP, in contributing to this debate I will have to reflect on provincial specifics. Transport can be referred to as the nerve centre of economic growth and development. The growth of our country depends on the extent to which socioeconomic development takes place, and transport infrastructure is imperative for growth. Without adequate and efficient infrastructure, there can be no trade, no economic development, and no improvement in the quality of life of our citizens.

The Eastern Cape, the second largest province, comprises an area of approximately 170 000 square kilometres, of which 70% is rural. The province has an estimated 6,8 million people, the majority of which still live in inaccessible areas due to largely rural and mountainous land.

It is against this background that we speak of an enormous challenge facing our province, especially when addressing transport. The above imbalances have impacted negatively on the steady drive to provide an affordable and accessable multimodal transport system.

In the Eastern Cape, transport means access to employment, education, health, all other social services and to information. There are four broad issues that have underscored our challenges, namely economic growth and diversification, employment creation and poverty alleviation; the provision of a safe and affordable multimodal transport system and infrastructure facilities; human capital development and population policy; and lastly, rural development, agriculture, environment and land use policy.

A safe and affordable multimodal tranport system and infrastructural facilities are prerequisites, though by no means a guarantee of economic development of our province and the country as a whole. The intensive efforts of the province to expand the GDP of our province require timely and reasonable access to natural resources and their markets. Expanded industrial output also requires the efficient transport of raw materials as well as the distribution of finished products. My input will be focused around that.

The challenge that the department continues to face is the financial allocation versus the huge demand in the rural areas of the province, in particular for the provision of services that in the past were deliberately denied to these poor communities whose majority is comprised of women.

However, there are few achievements that I would like to reflect on. Amidst the above challenges, the department has successfuly managed to maximise available resources, and the utilisation of existing transportation infrastructural facilities and services.

To this effect, we have undertaken several projects, one of which is the rehabilitation of the railway network. While rail is a national competence, planning is the responsibility of the provincial government. The department resolved in 1998 that railway transportation was critical to the socioeconomic development of the province and to the Umtata area, Transkei in particular. Hence there is an urgent need to rehabilitate the Umatata to East London rail infrastructure. To this effect, the department has received an allocation of R44 million to address rehabilitation.

We are also talking about opening a Motherwell line. Progress is being made in the building of this new line to Motherwell township and linking it with the city of Port Elizabeth. This line is part of the Motherwell town planning development, and could be constructed over a two to three-year period. The possibility of extending it to the Coega industrial developmental zone is under discussion with key stakeholders, namely Metrorail, the SARCC, the metro business communities, transport forums that represent the community, etc.

With regard to bus services, the restoration of subsidised bus passenger transport to the former Transkei is continuing. In May 1999 some 148 small, local emerging operators were contracted to render a subsidised passenger bus transport service. This process is continuing.

Of course there has been an investigation into the route viability in order to establish which routes require subsidies and which routes can be allocated elsewhere. Contracts with existing operators are under review to improve efficiency in terms of monitoring and to ensure that the right services are introduced for needy communities.

There is a process in place to restructure the Mayibuye Transport Corporation which was formerly of the Ciskei. In April 2001, an executive board of directors was appointed to drive the restructuring process and the Cabinet subsequently approved a public-private partnership. As it stands at the moment, a transaction adviser has been appointed and has presented a number of proposals to Cabinet.

Let me come now to the taxi industry. The first step, and flowing from the recommendations of the National Taxi Task Team, is that taxi associations have to be registered. At the moment, there are 97 registered associations in the province. The registration process will assist in distinguishing legal from illegal operators which are the main cause of conflicts and accidents on our roads.

A provincial taxi council has been elected and leadership structures at all levels have been elected to introduce a culture of accountability. We have also in the process established what is called a ``taxi priority committee’’ which exists and brings together law enforcement agencies, such as the SAPS, the Defence Force … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr S M A MALEBO (Free State): Chairperson, Minister Omar, chairperson of the portfolio committee, Ms Majodina, and hon members, due to time constraints I will limit my remarks to roads and traffic policing in relation to our budget.

During last year’s debate, I discussed with this House our efforts to take control and manage the challenges facing us in addressing the infrastructure backlog associated with transport. At that time I reported that we had received an increase in the allocation for the road maintenance budget for the first time in almost 15 years. Although the amount was quite small in relation to the total backlog for road maintenance of R3,2 billion, the R166 million has made a huge impact on our roads thus far. I would like this House to take note that the total allocation was utilised for the upgrading of various roads and bridges in the province.

The department has enhanced its capacity to spend the allocated budget. When the previous financial year closed, our underexpenditure was a negligible R350 000. This is the result of a very direct saving, as a result of curbing wastages in the department.

On the other hand, revenue collection by the department in the province has exceeded its target by almost R30 million. This is an indication that we have begun to turn the tide around. Our ability to spend timeously on all projects budgeted for has significantly improved our provincial economy and we have see a rise in our GDP.

As for this year, our ratio for infrastructure spending, as a percentage of the allocated budget, will increase by about 26%. This includes specially allocated funds from the infrastructure fund of the national department. This year’s total departmental budget stands at R653,6 million. Capex has increased from R39 million to about R159 million, while personnel expenditure has been reduced further by 3,3%. This brings our personnel cost versus developmental cost to 54% for personnel and 46% for development.

Currently, major road reconstruction and rehabilitation is being undertaken in the province as a whole. This work is concentrated on those roads that are regarded as significant for commuters, agriculture and tourism in the province as a whole. As for the bridges, we have prioritised those bridges that increase access of our communities to various social amenities, especially in the rural areas. The total allocation received to address the flood damage caused by the rains of January last year has been utilised. The whole place is beginning to change shape.

We will continue with this year’s budget to address mainly the road maintenance backlog. We will include taxi ranks and ensure that we develop one as a start to our intermodalism policy. Various testing centres are specially targeted this year and we will invest money collected from those centres as a way of investing in those areas that bring in revenue.

The most important development in road transport is the launch of our securitised numberplate system, which has been accepted by people across the province and the motor industry as a whole. Through this system, we have introduced a third securitised numberplate that is renewable every second year. We believe that this will greatly assist us with regard to vehicle-related crime.

Our road safety function has greatly improved over the past year. I can assure members that none of them will drive through the Free State at high speed without being caught. There is a 99% chance that they will be arrested. [Interjections.]

The road safety strategy and the finalisation of the Road Traffic Management Corporation will assist our efforts in this regard, but it pleases me to inform this House that we have increased our budget for traffic policing. This increase will go towards the salaries of traffic officers. Some will receive an increase of up to 100%. This is a direct result of our effort to transform traffic policing, just as is happening in the case of the police, the army, teachers and so on. Traffic policing is about the last sector to be restructured and transformed in order to meet the current demands of the new order.

The salary increase is just one of the many issues that must be addressed. These, amongst other things, include career pathing, ranking, promotion, training, etc. It is my belief that this increase will go a long way in discouraging fraud and bribery among traffic officers. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, hon Minister Omar, Transport MECs and colleagues, since 1999 Gauteng has made great strides, also in the transport sphere, in the implementation of programmes and projects aimed at alleviating poverty and accelarating economic growth and development.

One of the significant achievements in this field is the legalisation and registration of all modes of public transport through the launching of the Gauteng Public Passenger Road Transport Act, Act 7 of 2001, on 4 April 2002.

Allow me at this point to make use of this august forum to commend the public of Gauteng, such as the community forums and organisations, taxi associations and regional councils, the traffic fraternity, bus and transport industry officials and Government officials, among others, who have made and still continue to make meaningful contributions in the transport field to our common goal of growing our economy for poverty alleviation and sustainable development.

The Gauteng Department of Public Transport and Roads is actively encouraging public-private partnerships for the provision of transport infrastructure as part of their funding strategy. This is a mechanism which can provide the much-needed facilities within the existing budget constraints.

The toll tunnel project, which was recently announced by the national Department of Transport, is an example of different spheres of government and the private sector working together to develop the economy. It is expected markedly to reduce congestion and delays on major roads in the province, and thus complement the Gauteng congestion management strategy. It will also create thousands of jobs. Motorists will have the choice of using fast lanes at a fee or slower lanes without paying.

The proposed toll tunnel or superhighway is an initiative which will run parallel to the implementation of the Gauteng Rapid Rail Link. We need both a world-class mass rapid transit system such as Gautrain, and an improved road network to provide for current and future transport needs in Gauteng.

While road safety is an important challenge, we in Gauteng are not daunted by it. Road safety and overload control have been two of our focus areas. The Arrive Alive Campaign has been a success, although the fatality rate increased marginally during the past Easter holidays. The campaign now operates on a continuous basis and is supported by various law-enforcement agencies, including the private sector.

Furthermore, it is with great pleasure that I would like to share the following achievement with this House. The Gauteng Government has been awarded by the South African Guild of Motoring Journalists’ Committee for Road Safety with a prestigious road safety award, the Evert van Niekerk Memorial Trophy. It was awarded, inter alia, and I quote:

… for passionate and high-profile promotion of road safety in the province, for the stabilisation of Gauteng’s volatile taxi industry and not hesitating to close down taxi ranks if people’s lives are threatened, as well as for the removing of unroadworthy buses from the roads.

The continued stabilisation of the taxi industry is indeed beginning to bear fruit. A few areas still pose serious challenges, but we believe that they will be pacified eventually and persuaded to choose the path of peace, stability and prosperity.

In conclusion, I wish to mention that the taxi recapitalisation programme is on course, and although there are particular aspects related to design specifications that are posing a challenge, we are confident that the national team, under the capable leadership of the Department of Transport and Minister Omar will resolve these matters soon.

The safety and comfort of our people remain the overriding matter to which we are all committed.

Dr P J C NEL: Mnr die Voorsitter, geagte Minister, in die poging om ‘n beter lewe vir almal te verseker, is dit baie belangrik om toe te sien dat alle sektore van ons gemeenskap toegang het tot alle dienste en geleenthede in die land. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows)

[Dr P J C NEL: Mr Chairman, esteemed Minister, in the attempt to ensure a better life for all, it is very important to see to it that all sectors of our community have access to all services and opportunities in the country.]

To achieve this, the Department of Transport must develop a well-balanced, sustainable transport system. However, according to the strategic plan document of the department, the current reality is that there is a continual increase in the use of the road transport as a preferred means for most customers of the road transport system. The result is that our road network is deteriorating at such a pace that it will soon reach the point of no return. One of the reasons is undoubtedly the overloading of heavy trucks, damaging the roads network.

The annual growth rate of the road traffic, especially heavy freight in the Free State, is between 2% and 5%, and it is estimated that by the year 2020, the escalation will be more than 100%. This is frightening. If one takes into consideration that in the Free State, the percentage of poor and very poor paved roads has increased from 25% in 1991 to 65% in 2001. As much as 65% of the gravel road network is also in a very poor condition. No maintenance work has been done to the 20 400 km of tertiary roads for the last five years. The main purpose of these roads is to provide access from rural areas to the main roads. The main users of these roads are the people living in the rural areas and the farmers transporting their products to the markets. As the hon MEC has stated, the total backlog in the Free State on maintenance alone is estimated at approximately R3,2 billion. The annual need to address the backlog within a realistic period of 10 years is R1 billion per year. At the current funding levels, the backlog will increase to R5 billion within the next three years.

The national picture is also very dark. The total backlog for the national network of roads is R40 billion.

Vir die padinfrastruktuur in die Vrystaat is maar net R250 miljoen bewillig vir die 2002-03 finansiële jaar. Na regte, as ‘n mens dit mooi uitwerk, moes die toekenning R1,25 miljard gewees het. Ek pleit by die agb Minister om iets daaraan te doen. Ek besef al die provinsies het ekstra geld nodig, maar die Vrystaat se padnetwerk word oorlaai met swaarvoertuie wat van alle windrigtings deur die provinsie ry, en verdien spesiale aandag. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Die provinsies is dankbaar dat Sanra nou sommige deurpaaie oorgeneem het, en is ons baie angstig om by die agb Minister te verneem watter vordering gemaak is in die verband.

Die Nuwe NP het groot waardering vir alles, en steun alles wat die departement doen om verligting te bring, soos byvoorbeeld die opgradering van die spoorwegvervoerstelsel om dit na ‘n meer aanvaarbare alternatiewe vervoermiddel te verander, en sodoende die las van swaar verkeer op die padnetwerk te verlig. Ons het ook waardering vir wat die departement doen om lug, spoor en padveiligheid te bevorder deur middel van verskillende programme. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[For the road infrastructure in the Free State only R250 million was voted for the 2002-03 financial year. Justifiably, if one works it out correctly, the allotment should have been R1,25 milliard. I plead with the hon Minister to do something about that. I realize all the provinces need extra money, but the Free State’s road network gets overburdened with heavy vehicles that travel through the province from all wind directions, and deserves special attention. [Interjections.] The provinces are grateful that Sanra now took over some of the throughways, and we are very anxious to hear from the hon Minister about the progress that has been made in this matter.

The New NP has great appreciation for everything, and supports everything the department does to bring relief, for instance the upgrading of the railroad transport system to change it into a more acceptable alternative mode of transport, and thus lighten the burden of heavy traffic on the road network. We also have appreciation for what the department does to promote air, rail and road safety by means of different programs.]

In conclusion, Mr Chairman, I want to express my party’s concern about the current safety and security levels in the transport system.

According to the strategic plan document, the current poor levels … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Your time has expired hon member.

Dit is ``mer die voorsitter’’ wat tans in die stoel is.

Nksz M XULU (KwaZulu-Natal): Mphathisihlalo, mhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe, okokuqala ngithi angizwakalise ukuthi, cha nginguNksz Xulu, angiyena uNkk Xulu njengoba kubhaliwe ephepheni.

Sekuyimpumelelo emangalisayo ukuthi uHulumeni waseMzansi Afrika, osuqhuba ngentando yeningi, ushintsha umnotho wethu usuke ezingeni elintekenteke, ukhule usimame eminyakeni eyisikhombisa nje kuphela. Kube impumelelo emangalisayo ukuthi uHulumeni wethu ukwazi ukuthola iqhinga elikahle lokukhokha izikweletu esikhathini esincane ebesinaso. Noma kunjalo-ke kufanele sisilalele isexwayiso sikaNgqongqoshe umhlonishwa u-Omar lapha ethe uMzansi Afrika ubulokhu uphila kuphela ngomnotho otholakala kwezemigwaqo nezokuthutha. Uma-ke imigwaqo nezokuthutha ziyekwa zife noma impela zishabalale, lokhu kuyoba nomthelela omubi omkhulu kakhulu ekukhuleni komnotho wethu nesimo nje sezinga lethu emhlabeni wonke.

Inxanxathela yemigwaqo, ojantshi kanye namachweba ethu lapha kwaZulu-Natal athatheka njengabaluleke kakhulu futhi abucayi kakhulu ukucacisa izinga lempumelelo yethu lapho sincintisana khona namanye amazwe ezimakethe zomhlaba. U-90% wohwebo loMzansi Afrika namazwe omhlaba luncike kwezokuthutha zasolwandle, imikhumbi. Ngaphezu kuka-60% wempahla ethalwa ngamaloli yehla emkhunjini eMzansi Afrika, ifikela eThekwini.

IkwaZulu-Natal iyisango kwezinye izifunda zaseMzansi Afrika kanye nabanye omakhelwane. Yinhle intuthuko eseyenziwe ukuthuthukisa imigwaqo engothela wayeka engo-N2 no-N3. Le migwaqo yiyo ebalulekile kakhulu ekuxhumaniseni izimakethe zomhlaba, iGauteng, iLimpopo kanye nomakhelwane bangasenhla. Nokho-ke izinga lethu lokuba isifundazwe esiyisango libekwa esimeni esibucayi ngububi benxanxathela yemigwaqo yesifunda sethu ehlala ithwele izithuthi eziningi. Ezinye zalezi zithuthi zisuke zibalekela ukukhokha kuma- tollgate njengoba amanye emba eqolo.

Nangaphezu kweqhaza okumele silibambe ezweni lethu nasemhlabeni wonke njengesifunda esiyisango, sibheke ukubamba iqhaza elibaluleke kakhulu ngokuhlanganisa umphakathi wethu owahlukaniswa kabuhlungu ubandlululo.

Ukuhlelwa nokuphathwa kwezithuthi, selwedlule ubandlulo, kubhekeke ukuthi kushintshe indlela yokuhlelela umphakathi eyayihambisana nokwehlukaniswa kwabantu. Impela kunzima kakhulu ukuthi imiphakathi engenazo kahle izindlela zokuxhumana incintisane kahle nemiphakathi esizwa ngezokuthutha nokuxhumana okuhle ezingeni lalapha nelalo mhlaba wonke.

UmNyango wezokuThutha kwaZulu-Natal ubeka isamba esingu-80% ukuze ulungise imigwaqo ekhona futhi uhlele bese uthuthukisa inxanxathela ehleleke kahle yemigwaqo. Nakuba kunjalo sibala ukuthi ingqalasizinda yemigwaqo yethu ithola imali engaphansi kwefanele ngo-46%. Lesi sibalo sisuselwa ekuhlelweni okwakhelwa lokhu okulandelayo: okokuqala ukuvuselela imigwaqo yetiyela ebukeka isezingeni elibi. Lolu hlelo lungenziwa ngeminyaka eyishumi nanye. Okwesibili ukuvala iminkenke esemigwaqeni yetiyela esezingeni elingcono. Lolu hlelo lungenzeka eminyakeni eyisikhombisa. Okwesithathu ukuthuthukisa imigwaqo yebhuqu ethwala izimoto ezingaphezu kuka-500 ngosuku ibe yitiyela. Lolu hlelo lungaba olweminyaka eyisikhombisa. Okwesine ukuthelwa nokuvuselelwa kwenkwali emgwaqeni. Lolu wuhlelo lweminyaka eyisithupha.

Okwesihlanu ukwenzela imiphakathi engenakho ukuxhumana okuhle, izikole, imitholampilo nezinye izizinda zomphakathi, imigwaqo esezingeni lokumelana nazo zonke izimo zezulu. Lolu hlelo lungathatha iminyaka eyisikhombisa.

Ekugcineni ngithi kumhlonishwa uDullah Omar sengathi angabonelela kakhulu izindawo zasemakhaya njengoba naye azi ukuthi azikho izithuthi ngenxa yemigwaqo emibi. Izingane zesikole ezindaweni zasemakhaya zinenkinga ngenxa yezithuthi. Kwesinye isikhathi uyaye ubone abantwana begibele emalolini sebengabonakali ngisho ubuso kanye nezingubo abazembethe ngenxa yothuli.

Uma lokhu kuyocatshangelwa kuqala, iNkosi iyombusisa umhlonishwa. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu speech follows.)

[Miss M XULU: Chairperson, hon Minister, firstly I would to say that I am Miss Xulu, not Mrs Xulu, as it is written on the list.

It has been a great improvement that the South African Government, which adheres to democratic rule, is changing our economy from its weak position as it has grown well in these mere seven years. It was a surprising success that our Government has succeeded in finding a good strategy to pay our debts within the short period that it had done so. However, we still need to heed Minister Omar’s words that South Africa has been surviving the economic phase through the economy roads transportation. If we let road transportation die or disappear, this will have a great bad impact on the growth of our economy and even on our status in the global world.

The infrastructure of roads, railways and our harbours in KwaZulu-Natal is taken as being the most important and are very crucial in clearing the level of our success when we compete with other countries in the world markets. Ninety percent of South Africa’s trade with world countries depends on sea transportation, ships. More than 60% of goods transported by trucks come from South African ships, and is unloaded in Durban.

KwaZulu-Natal is the gateway through which one gets to other provinces and neighbouring countries. The improvement that has been made to develop freeways, which are N2s and N3s, is a good one. These are important roads to connect with international markets like Gauteng, Limpopo and other neighbouring states upcountry. However, our status as a gateway province is jeopardised by the bad mixture of roads in our province, which are always full of many transport vehicles. Some of these transport vehicles are there to avoid paing toll at the gates since it is very expensive.

Besides the role we should play as a gateway province in our country as well as in the international world, we look forward to playing an important role in uniting our community that was divided by apartheid.

The organising and managing of transport vehicles, apartheid being over, is aimed at changing the way of making arrangements in respect of communities which supported racial division. It is difficult indeed for communities that do not have good communication systems to compete well with communities which are supported by transport vehicles and which have good communication systems at local and international levels.

The Department of Transport in KwaZulu-Natal has put aside 80% of its budget to improve existing roads and for planning so that it can improve mixture of roads to be a well-arranged set of roads. However, we estimate that our road infrastructure is getting below what it should be getting, which is 46%. This sum originates from the following planning: firstly, to renew tarred roads that are in bad condition. This programme can be finished in 14 years. Secondly, to close cracks in tarred roads that are in good condition. This programme can be accomplished in seven years. Thirdly, to turn dust roads, which transport over 500 cars per day into tarred roads. This programme can take seven years. Fourthly, the renewal of gravel soil that is put on muddy roads. This programme will take about six years.

Fifthly, to build good roads that will tolerate any weather for those communities that do not have good communication systems, schools, clinics and other public centres. This programme will take about seven years.

In conclusion, I would like to say to Minister Omar that we want him, firstly to consider the rural areas, as he knows that there is no transport there because of the bad condition of our roads. School children in the rural areas have a big problem with dust. Sometimes you see children boarding trucks with faces and clothes which are unidentifiable owing to dust.

If this can be given first priority, God will bless the Minister. [Applause.]]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Where is the hon member Windvoël? You appear reluctant, hon member. [Laughter.]

Mr V V Z WINDVOëL: Of course I am, Chairperson, after such an inspiring speech from our colleague from KwaZulu-Natal which was ably delivered in her mother tongue. Notwithstanding that, I will start by extending apologies on behalf of the chairperson of our standing committee from the province, who could not make it due to the budgetary process the province is engaged in. Hence I will raise the following on his behalf.

The Mpumalanga province appreciates the support given to it by the national Minister for the past year, particularly his participation in the launch of the Shova kalula bicycle project at Mzinti in December 2001 and his presence at the launch of the provincial transport policy in April this year. It is hoped that these will not be the only projects that the Minister graces with his much valued presence. We would like, however, to draw the Minister’s attention to the following issues that could benefit the province this year as well as in the future.

There is a need for the development of a sustainable funding strategy in respect of transportation issues, specifically to address neglected rural transport development needs and infrastructure backlogs. Efforts by the Minister to lobby funds for infrastructure development which saw R43 million transferred to the province are, however, appreciated. The strategy will enable the provinces to meet their obligations in these regards. It should be placed on record that in order to address the road infrastructure backlog alone, Mpumalanga would require close to R3 billion.

Whilst the concentration on the development of the identified presidential nodes is welcome, there is a major need to extend the focus to other poverty pockets, especially with reference to the issue of bus subsidies. Historically these subsidies were used to promote the mobility of the workforce only. Thus at this stage there are no affordable bus transport services for all commuters including pensioners, people with disabilities, scholars and work seekers in areas of need. The current MTEF allocations do not show dedicated funding to assist the district and local municipalities in achieving their goals formulated in their integrated development plans. The requirements of the National Land Transport Transition Act for a number of transport plans to be developed by those municipalities places a strain on them in terms of what could be called unfunded mandates.

The development of SMMEs within the transport sector still remains a challenge, as there are no viable small-contract development progammes in place visibly assisting them to qualify for tenders.

Lastly the launch of the Shova Kalula bicycle project was a major achievement. However, it is important to highlight that the sustainability of this project is suspicious at this stage. What could assist would be clear strategies on the integration of nonmotorised transport with more formal nodes of transport, including infrastructure changes to take care for such.

I would, however, say that the Minister did cover in his opening statement some of the other points that I have been mandated to raise on behalf of the province, I will therefore rest my case. [Applause.]

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon MECs, distinguished guests, one of the biggest challenges facing our Government, and our national Department of Transport specifically, is to redress and transform the legacy of social engineering of the previous regime. This policy determined, in terms of the laws of the day, that the construction of roads and access to transport, schools, hospitals, etc, was not merely a technical exercise. On the contrary, it was part and parcel of the evil system of apartheid that had communities uprooted and their movements severely restricted and saw them denied access to economic opportunities. In the rural areas this legacy manifests itself more profoundly.

A consequence of this situation is that at present it is not meeting the needs of all South Africans. The rail, taxi and bus transport industry is beset by a multitude of problems. Amongst other things it lacks adequate commuter safety and security, reliability and accessibility. This is compounded by the general backlog and deterioration of existing infrastructure. Let me explain this in a practical manner. Mrs Jantjies should be able to get onto a minibus outside her door in Galeshewe in order to collect her old age pension every month. The taxi should be able to drop her off at a centrally located rank or terminus where she can then proceed to a post office or facility where she can receive her grant and return home with a smile on her face. She should have had not only a safe journey, but also a pleasant one. Also Mrs Jacobs from Namaqualand should be able to board the train in order to get her young child on time to Tygerberg hospital at least once a month to receive specialised treatment and not be concerned about unnecessary delays and safety problems. The same applies to those with special commuter needs.

We believe that the ANC-led Government has made major advances in this regard, one of which is the Arrive Alive campaign. Many of us mistakenly see this campaign as a once-off event. In our Province, in the Northern Cape, I can report that this is a process, an on-going process. In the area I come from in De Aar we have a lot of donkey carts - the De Aar, Victoria West and Strydenburg region. What we have now done in our province is to give them registration numbers. We have also given them canopies with the Arrive Alive campaign advertised at the back, and they are quite safe and visible on the roads.

We also want to laud the Minister and the department for giving priority to the rail safety. Until now, rail operators have been responsible for setting safety standards and monitoring and investigating accidents. As recently as two months ago, we were all witness to the disaster at Pretoria station in Gauteng when the frustrations of rail commuters boiled over. This incident exposed the frailties of these safety operators. It demonstrated the lack of adequate training in security, crowd flows and the protection of property of security personel employed by Spoornet, Metrorail and the commuter corporation. It was also an indictment against Spoornet and Metrorail, which, until now, have been their own referees in matters pertaining to security, we are therefore indeed proud that this revered House could be part of the legislative process that will soon see the introduction of the National Railway Safety Regulator to oversee safety in railway transport operations. Moreover, Cabinet has expressed its commitment to and agreed to the introduction of a railway and transit police. One of the biggest legacies of the past is probably the unregulated minibus taxi industry. However, we must at the same time congratulate the department and the Minister on their efforts to unify the taxi organisations, which culminated in the establishment of Santaco, the national co-ordinating body, last year. Together these organisations transport about 60% of commuters.

The hallmark of this industry is that it is highly individualistic and it is still a hand-to-mouth industry. It is not subsidised and the average age of a minibus varies between eight and twelve years. These vans were not designed for public transport and the majority are in a downward spiral. In fact, in Japan these Nissan E20s and Toyotas were largely designed for industrial purposes.

It is for these reasons that we are encouraged to know that Government’s recapitilisation programme is still on track. The aim of this programme is to replace the 127 000 - strong fleet with new, locally designed 18 - or 35

• seater vehicles.

The process of transformation is critical to the industry and cannot be rushed. We have an integrated strategy in place to improve services and service delivery throughout the transport network in order to meet the current demands and address the legacies of the past. However, I must indicate that we in the Northern Cape have experienced some problems, especially with regard … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, my first pleasure and duty is to welcome my hon colleague, the new MEC for Transport and Works in the Western Cape. We wish her very well in her new career and career path, and wish her well in this House today and in subsequent appearances that she will make. She is highly competent and I am sure she is going to bring a lot of dynamism to this transport portfolio.

I wish to address the Minister on the issue of the Platinum toll freeway, a road of transnational importance. In his speech at the launch of the Platinum highway earlier this year, the Minister stated that, and I quote:

Transport needs to be planned holistically.

High praise was given to how the new road will link African countries, supporting the African Renaissance and the Nepad initiative I hasten to say that on 7 July the Tshwane council resolved to support the national initiative to develop this Platinum freeway, but they had their reservations and concerns that, inter alia, no financial support from National Government had been forthcoming, and they expressed concern about severe and unacceptable distortions to existing traffic patterns, and that cognisance must be taken of the excessive toll fees and that these must be reduced not to exceed the national average. We ask the Minister to consider some of these things.

Other objections that were raised were with regard to the planning, processing, development and maintenance of the highway, and there appeared to be questions which they think are unanswered. Current estimated toll fees also raised some concerns, estimated between R2,70 and R3,50 daily - a total cost for a commuter of between R108,00 and R140,00 per month if they use the road. The objection is raised that the tolling of an existing road with no visible widening or improvement, especially where no supporting road network exists around the N1, these needs have to be addressed in order to develop a proper tolling strategy.

Perhaps the Minister can inform the House as to allegations of insufficient consultation. I have read allegations - I do not know how correct they are

• that the toll strategy was kept confidential or secret. Does the Minister know anything about the council voicing its displeasure to him and the National Road Agency about entering a long-term contract in October 2000 with Bakwene? Perhaps the Minister can tell us what the nature of consultation, if any, was with the relevant local authorities and public with regard to the tolling strategy and procedures followed in allocating the contract to the preferred bidder.

I further understand that there has been no proper socioeconomic impact assessment released as a consequence of the scoping study of May 2000. One report spells out that according to the socioeconomic study 75 000 residents will be directly impacted, while the indirect impact will affect 400 000 residents. The report also states that the metropolitan authority will receive no compensation for its local road network and that the linkage problems that will occur will have to be dealt with by that authority.

Concern has also been raised about the environmental impact of this developmentm, especially its impact on the social and economic aspects. Very little assessment has apparently been done to address these concerns. May I ask the Minister, in good faith, if he could perhaps consider some of these matters which have been raised with me, because it does sound, conceptually, to be an exciting prospect to open the western part of our country and we would like to do it with consent. We support the Bill. [Time expired.]

Dean T S FARISANI (Northern Province): Comrade Chairperson, Comrade Minister, colleagues and hon members, we are sent here by the people of the Great Limpopo, the province of peace and the gateway for African Renaissance ideas travelling south and north. Now, if one comes to the Limpopo province, popularly known as the Northern Province in Cape Town, and one finds a few things that are not happening, it is because the budget does not meet every challenge.

Some of the issues are: Overloading control systems, the need to move from Grade B to Grade A testing stations, elements of corruption, unfinished carwash projects for the youth, unfinished restructuring of Government Garages, more subsidised vehicles for traffic officers, the needs of the disabled, further funding for the negotiated contract for the GNT, airport study programmes such as Giyani and Mphephu and the current debate on Hoedspruit is second international licence, more officers to work 24 hours seven days a week, the cry for more bicycles from the popular programme, Shova Kalula, the taxipeople crying for recapitalised vehicles, greater support for scholarships for students who want to do studies in the area of transport, and, of course, better salaries for traffic officers.

If wishes were horses, and budgets came from heaven, I would cover all those areas. [Laughter.] Secondly, we are good planners in the province, we make mistakes that are reserved for human beings and leave perfection to the Almighty.

Other isues are the transport authority for Polokwane, further airport study, transport terminal study, and also 50 donkey carts for this financial year, better than that of the other province. In the Northern Province we have consulted our donkeys, there is no such thing as abuse of animals. [Laughter.] We need further funding for the taxi industry, restructuring of Government transport and vehicle identification technology. We have covered 3 000 last year and we are covering 2 000 this year. Further issues are driving schools, democratisation, and vehicle fitness for LDVs and trucks.

It is a confession from a reverend this time, Minister: we have not succeeded in bringing to order every LDV and every truck that carries people, especially because the roads in Limpopo leave much to be desired, and buses and taxis cannot get there.

There are many more plans for this financial year which are covered by the budget that we are given. We are not the complaining party, we are the ruling party. We are able to do with the budget what we can do and also to identify areas that we can cover if we have more funds.

In conclusion, we want to celebrate with hon members that with the budget that was allocated the previous financial year, we achieved great things. There were 3 000 vehicles fitted for vehicle identification technology, at 23 fuel stations and five depots which will be increased to six this year. We have restructured Seshego Government Garage through a public-private partnership. I launched the project last week. And through the auctions, we are empowering the previously disadvantaged. We have both closed auctions and open auctions for millionaires. The closed ones are for the hundreders and thousanders. [Laughter.]

We want to thank the Minister for supporting us with our GNT project. We are now able to transport 13,5 million people per annum by comfortable, safe and accessible transport means. With regard to Shova Kalula, the almost 3 000 bicycles we got are helping the poor and scholars, and so far, because they are properly trained, no bicycle accidents have happened yet. [Applause.]

In conclusion, the taxi area is very peaceful. In the past three years only three people have died and many more promise not to die. We subscribe to the Minister’s vision and to his mission. May God bless him as we work together. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I call upon the hon Essop, MEC for Transport, Works and Asset Management in the Western Cape.

Ms T ESSOP (Western Cape): Chairperson, hon Minister, fellow MECs and hon members, let me at the outset correct the Chairperson about the title of my department. This is one of the key indicators that there is change in the Western Cape. We do not call ourselves Works'' any longer; we now call ourselvesPublic Works’’. It is meant to be that and it will be that, so it is the Public Works department.

This is supposed to be my maiden speech in this House today and I have the great privilege to come and report to my national Minister about what has happened since I took over in the province in this particular portfolio. I am very pleased to say that I do not think it is an unreasonable report card.

The total budget for the transport component of my department is R726,2 million. There is going to be an increase in the MTEF period in terms of capital expenditure of R599 million. Of course we know that that is not going to be enough, but when I hear about the backlogs in the other provinces, the Western Cape’s R1,2 billion backlog seems quite minimal in comparison, but, as we know, backlogs that are not addressed at the outset increase as we go along. So we are all sitting with a serious backlog when it comes to road infrastructure in this country, as we are all well aware.

The big priority in this department is public transport, and the hon the Minister, I am pleased to see, focused the majority of his budget speech today on public transport.

I am proud to announce in this House that even though at a national level Santaco was launched in September last year, and the Western Cape unfortunately did not finalise the democratisation process, I am proud to announce to this House that we have done so now. We are very much part of the rest of the country. We launched our Western Cape Provincial Taxi Council in February this year. We will be signing and finalising a memorandum of understanding at the end of June this year. A further transformation to this particular industry, which will benefit both taxi and the bus operators, will be the finalisation of the new operating licences board, which will be a transformed licences board, and we are hoping to finalise that by the end of June.

The hon the Minister requested the provinces to reply on the issue of commuters with special needs. We have allocated R3,5 million for this particular purpose, of which R2,5 million goes to the dial-a-ride programme that we are running in co-operation with the national Government. We are quite excited about that, but I think a lot of work needs to be done around it, especially when it comes to transport infrastructure. Our railway stations, for example, would have access to the railway interchange itself but not to the platform of the railway line. This is an example of where a lot needs to be done in terms of commuters with special needs.

The big thing in our province is that through this portfolio we have to redress the apartheid backlogs and the divisions that roads, transport and the lack of access have brought in our country. One instance that is close to my heart after my short experience here is the issue of long-distance transport, and we have to see this in the context of the legacy of the migrant labour system. Many of our people in the Western Cape travel to the Eastern Cape on a regular basis. They do so to return home to their families, to go for holidays, weddings, funerals, etc. That very clearly is a migrant labour system in this country, and long-distance transport provided is not adequate.

Commuters in the Western Cape risk their lives in a desperate attempt to get to the Eastern Cape. One finds that they overload bakkies. We saw a terrible incident in which people were killed purely because the bakkie taking them to the Eastern Cape was overloaded. This is not acceptable and I think a concerted effort needs to be made on the part of the minibus taxi industry, Government and the bus industry.

What is interesting in the Western Cape is that the ranks, the infrastructure for long-distance, are still not integrated. One finds that in Cape Town - many hon members walking down Adderley Street will see - the long-distance operators, the advantaged operators, load their vehicles in Adderley Street, in the city centre, whereas our people in the townships find that there are no ranks or formal facilities for long-distance operators in our townships.

That brings up at least two things. Obviously there is a problem and we need to redress it, but there is no integration in the service. One of the intentions of my department - and I made an announcement in my budget speech - is that I would like to see us building an integrated long- distance public transport terminal. I call it a landport. I believe that this integrated facility would have to provide for the needs of all our communities but would also have a tourism impact, because we are hoping to locate it close to the airport. It would also bring a good infrastructural injection into the Western Cape itself. I am looking forward to the landport legacy in this portfolio.

The issue that I would like to turn to next is one that I believe is close to the Minister’s heart, and that is poverty alleviation programmes. At the outset I want to thank the Minister and Sanral for its contribution to our community access road programmes our poverty alleviation programmes.

I know that there is a perception in the rest of the country that the Western Cape is advantaged, which it is, and unfortunately that there is not very real poverty in the Western Cape. We need to look at this with a new set of eyes. There is very serious poverty in the Western Cape. In fact in the Western Cape the income gap between the rich and the poor is one of the largest, and that is the problem. So while the Western Cape appears to be advantaged, we forget that there is, in fact, a very large population of poverty-stricken people, especially in our rural areas.

We really appreciate the contribution by Sanral. They contributed R52 million towards that and we were able to deliver 37 poverty alleviation project through community access rail programmes which create jobs especially for women and the youth in our rural areas. We are very excited about that and we are going to invite the hon the Minister to come and visit these projects.

The other issue that I think I should report on is the fact that we returned to the South Cape this weekend. We were accompanied by Sanral CEO to look again at those communities that will be affected by the proposed toll road.

We have heard the voices of the environmentalists. We have now gone to hear the voices of the poorer communities that will be directly affected by those toll roads. The message is very clear. We know that it is easier for people to forget thi. If one builds a road, it is OK for people to be dislocated. It is easier to remove people from their homes and relocate them than it is to build a road through a river. We have gone back and listened to the communities, and they are still saying that they are not very happy with the bypass, that it does affect their lives directly and that they have once again called the department to look at building footbridges. I am proud to announce that the footbridge over the N2 at George has already been started and is at an advanced stage and that the one in Knysna over the neck will be constructed soon. We are very excited about the delivery programme in relation to our co-operation between the provincial government and national Government.

One of the last issues that I would like to address is the role of municipalities. I have been finding on my trips to municipalities, especially in rural areas, that they tend to prioritise their spending towards the more advantaged areas at the expense of our poorer communities. While as the provincial government we cannot directly impose our sentiments on local authorities or tell them what to do, I think we need a concerted effort to look at how we keep that focus through the IDP process on the previously disadvantaged communities. I think this is going to be very important in George - the Minister has been there with us - and in Knysna it is a very serious problem. These are examples. I am sure this goes for many municipalities across the country. We need to take a closer look at maybe making our contribution conditional. [Time expired.]

Mr T RALANE: Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs, special delegates and hon members, this budget should not be looked at narrowly as merely a number of figures on how the department intends to spend its allocation. We must understand this Budget as another building block in the process of transforming our transportation system. It must be looked at in relation to the achievements of the past seven years and as an instrument for building on these achievements.

It is only people who lack this insight who have criticised this budget. The ANC supports the budget. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Chairperson, hon members and delegates, I want to express my appreciation to all members who participated in this debate. It was more a discussion than a debate, because the picture I go t is that we all agreed that we are faced with huge challenges. We are generally in agreement that there has been progress, but that there is much more that needs to be done.

This is like a team that is busy climbing a high mountain. We have managed to get up from the bottom onto part of the mountain. We are looking up and we see there is still a big challenge ahead of us. Sometimes we forget to look back to see how far we have come. But in this House, I think, there has been not just a balance and an appreciation of the road that we have travelled, but also recognition that we still need to travel a distance. What was pleasing is the recognition by everyone that we need to travel that road together. I want to express my appreciation to everyone for that.

I would also like to express my appreciation and to compliment the MECs who spoke here today on behalf of the provinces. I think that each one of their reports was a positive one. The reports were of good achievement, hard work and honest endeavour while, at the same time, identifying problems which are faced in the provinces.

I am heartened by the fact that in the provinces a great deal of attention has been paid to the issue of rural roads. This is an issue which was raised right at the outset by the hon Majodina, the chair of the select committee, and she quite correctly focused on that issue as a very important issue. I want to assure her that it is not only an issue for her

• she spoke about it with great passion - but that we share that concern and it is for that reason that we have embarked upon a number of programmes in that regard.

In the national department there is a programme targeting rural areas. One of the reasons that I have been a little bit careful about this is because it is not a national function and, therefore, I do not want to claim credit when in fact we are dealing with provincial and local government functions. But there has been a partnership at all levels of government to ensure that there are these achievements. For example, the poverty alleviation programme has been administered by us and in co-operation with the provinces, a number of projects have unfolded. In the first year of the poverty alleviation programme we were allocated R100 million and that was used. Our road’s agency, the SA National Roads Agency, worked together with the provinces concerned to develop the projects and to see to their implementation.

In the Eastern Cape, as the hon Dennis Neer would be able to testify, there have been nearly 40 road building projects, which have been built at a cost of about R100 million, plus one or two other more complicated works in which the parties were involved. Regarding the Northern Province, the hon Rev Farisani, who always brings great blessings to this House, can testify to the work which has been done there. Through a number of projects we have spent that R100 million and there has been progress in that particular province.

We received a second allocation, I think it was R110 million, and in this instance targeted the Western Cape. The hon Essop has mentioned that and so, therefore, there has been progress. It has been a partnership. KwaZulu- Natal also benefits from that project but then, again, it is the Northern Province.

But inside the department itself, we are currently undertaking strategic audits in the 13 rural nodes which form part of the rural development programme announced by the President, and the nodes which have been identified by the President. Out of these audits, 13 action plans will be the key outputs and these action plans will guide implementation as they will identify practical intervention in each of these 13 rural nodes.

So what we are doing is to look at the rural needs generally but also focus specifically on the nodes which have been identified by the President. The rural transport programme, in particular, will seek to address the rural transport infrastructure and operations, such as rural roads, transport facilities - taxi ranks for example - and logistics and brokering services in order to ensure and enable participation in mainstream economy and, very importantly, build capacity by training and capacitating our people so that they can do things.

Speaking about capacity-building and training makes me want to mention that we have in the House this afternoon Judy Blackwell who is a senior official in the department of transport of Canada. She is here with her husband, David. The Canadian government has a co-operative agreement with us and Judy Blackwell, sitting here in the House, represents the Canadian government. We have a wide-ranging agreement and support.

The National Railway Safety Regulator, which I mentioned in the House the other day, has seen the light of day because of the support we have received from her and from the Canadian government. She is here again in order to talk about training programmes which we will engage in together. I am sure we are going to benefit a great deal from that too. Allow me to take this opportunity of thank Judy. [Applause.]

I am not going to burden the House with a response to each of the issues which have been mentioned here this afternoon, suffice it to say that I see a greater future for our rural areas. I say that because we have completed the constitutional task which faced Government, of redemarcating local authority boundaries. This was only completed in October 2000, and the first ever genuine nonracial elections at local government level only took place in December 2000, just over a year ago. There are many new local authorities which have been created.

At the same time, legislation has been passsed to require local authorities to develop integrated development plans - IDPs. Our own legislation, the National Land Transport Transition Act, requires that transport plans should be developed nationally, provincially and locally. I think that the pieces are falling into place.

As I said in my address earlier, there is the municipal infrastructure fund which can be accessed specifically for infrastructure development. The hon Essop is quite correct again in that local authorities must include provision for roads in their integrated development plans.

Unfortunately, our observations show that there is reliance on the infrastructure fund and some local authorities are not using their budgets in order also to support road development.

But, as I say, I think that things have changed. The National Infrastructure Fund has also seen more money being allocated to the provinces. I think we are seeing an improvement at every level, and I think we will be seeing the results in due course.

I have noted the comments on the Platinum highway, the other toll roads and the concerns that have been expressed. I just want to assure hon members that I myself take these concerns very seriously, especially because poor communities are involved, communities which cannot afford to pay. Therefore I have already spoken to SUNRAL with a view to addressing these concerns, to see whether something can be done to mitigate the kind of problems which we are having.

Let me conclude by saying that I have not commented on many of the inputs which have been made. They were really inputs, not questions. I appreciate the remarks that have been made. Once again I want to thank everybody, and my officals for a job well done. I think that the inputs have indicated that there is appreciation for the work that they have done. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

                       MENTAL HEALTH CARE BILL

(Consideration of Bill and of Report of Select Committee on Social Services thereon) The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Chairperson, hon members of the NCOP, first of all let me take this opportunity to express my heartfelt condolences to the Chairperson of the NCOP on the loss of her dear mother, to me usisi uFikile, Comrade Fikile.

It was very sad indeed to learn of her passing away. I hope that as you contemplate the future without her presence, the very fond memories you share of her will indeed help you in the healing process, for you and the rest of your family.

I will now turn to my speech on the Mental Health Bill, 2002. We have another important piece of health legislation, the Mental Health Care Bill, before us today. The Bill is important for a number of reasons, not least because so many people are affected by mental health problems and many more people are left feeling vulnerable, hopeless, useless and confused by mental health illnesses and their ramifications.

Let me take also the opportunity to express appreciation that the NCOP was very considerate in allowing us to postpone the presentation of this Bill simply because of my other engagements, which included amongst others my need to attend the Children’s Summit in New York and the World Health Assembly. I just want to say that the two were not very easy summits to attend, particularly the World Health Assembly. I can assure members that I did my best to represent our country in those two forums.

Let me also take this opportunity right now to congratulate all members of the NCOP who, on Sunday, participated in the candle-lighting ceremonies in remembrance of those who are affected by HIV/Aids. I thank all the members very much.

According to the World Health Organisation, globally there are nearly 450 million people who suffer from mental and behavioural disorders. South African studies show that around 15% to 25% of people who attend general health out-patient services have a mental health problem of sufficient severity to warrant intervention. Many people’s dignity as well as their basic human rights are impeded because of mental illnesses, and it is necessary for us to have this legislative mechanism at our disposal to rectify this situation. We also have to develop our mental health system in a way which is conducive with the needs of our South African citizens. When I say that many people are affected by mental health, I mean people of all races, of all classes, of both genders, in urban and rural areas - everywhere mental ill health affects people.

Amongst members present here today, as well as amongst our colleagues in the National Assembly, are people with sons and daughters who are suffering from schizophrenia, mothers and fathers at home who are seriously depressed, brothers and sisters who are victims of all sorts of trauma, who carry the symptoms of post-traumatic distress disorder and so on. I am not saying this because in epidiomological terms this would, in all likelihood, be true, but because I know that it is a fact.

When I say that many people are affected, it is important to clarify that it is not merely the person with the mental disorder who suffers the impact but the people around them too, especially close members of the family. I know that there are parliamentarians who, because of mental illness in their families, leave their buildings each day worrying about what they should be doing to improve their home situations, what they should be doing differently, wishing that the mental illness would disappear, and, dare I say, wishing that there was no shame attached to this condition. In other words, a sense of desperation amongst all of us is not uncommon.

Yet, if hon members are relatively privileged members of society, who can access advice and services more easily than many others, find this a difficult area to deal with and deeply suffer the effects of mental illness, how much more difficult is it for the most vulnerable in our society, the very poor and those living in rural areas where there are hardly any skilled mental health personnel at all and who often do not know where to turn to? Witchcraft and other explanations are not uncommon, and this often stops a person from receiving good mental health interventions.

I am not discussing the merits and demerits of traditional healing in other cases. However, the lack of collaboration between the two systems of care results in poor recovery. There is still much that has to change and improve in order to normalise mental illnesses and create the framework and services for what is clearly an extremely debilitating set of conditions.

Mental illness shares similarities with HIV and Aids, and, llike HIV and Aids, we require a concerted and multisectoral response from the population and from the health services as well. For example, both mental health and HIV carry a stigma. In both, many people people put the blame on the sufferer; in both some family and community members want to get rid of the person and do not want to take responsibility for him or her; and, in both, a large part of the solution lies in changing attitudes and, within the health services, in community-based care.

Therefore, treating the symptoms with diligence, care and responsibility is absolutely critical. I am confident that the legislation before us today goes a long way in shifting past practices in mental health care. It also sets out a new rights framework, which is in harmony with our own Constitution.

One of the most important policy shifts in this legislation is one in which people with mental disabilities are not seen as social misfits who need to be sent to isolated institutions to be treated as outcasts.

I do not know whether some of the hon members know that Robben Island was the first mental institution that was established in the colonial regime in our country. It was roundabout the same time that it also became a leper colony. Subsequently, of course, many of our leaders were detained on the same island. This goes to show that the previous administration had no idea what to do with mentally ill people in our society. But now we do, hence this Bill establishes a legal framework for a humane way of dealing with people with mental disorders.

People with mental disorders are people with rights and with health problems, which should first and foremost be treated as part of the general health care system. Only when there are complications or problems which cannot be dealt with within the general health care system, should people with mental health problems and disorders be treated within specialised care settings or under the special provisions provided for in the Bill before us.

Let me run through some of the rights contained in the Bill. These are: the right to respect; the right to human dignity and privacy; the right to consent to care, treatment and rehabilitation and to admission to health establishments; the right not to be unfairly discriminated against, the right to be protected from exploitation and abuse; the right to have information about one’s health protected; the right to have sexual relations; the right to be represented, including legal representation when it is required.

Many of these rights hon members will, of course, recognise because they are also contained in our own Constitution. So why repeat them here today? The answer lies in the fact that these rights require further clarification and illumination with regard to mental disabilities, and also because it is necessary to emphasise these rights given past discrimination, abuse and exploitation of people with mental disabilities.

These rights are also protected through various procedural mechanisms and through the establishment of a special board to protect the rights of people who are admitted to health establishments and treated without their consent.

We are looking at two main groups of people in this context. The first are people who are incapable of making informed decisions about their health and require to be assisted in receiving care. The second is the group of individuals who may be a danger to themselves and to others and who, owing to their mental illness or intellectual disability, require involuntary treatment and management.

In both these cases it is necessary to have an oversight body which can ensure that the individual’s rights are not unfairly or unnecessarily restricted. This mental health review board will consider each case on admission as well as periodically thereafter. There are also a number of changes in this Bill from the existing Mental Health Act, which have necessitated new legislation.

In addition to points already referred to, let me mention the following important policy areas which have been incorporated into this Bill. Firstly, the introduction of a new cadre of health worker, entitled ``mental health care practitioner’’. This is necessary to make optimal use of all suitably qualified health personnel in our country, South Africa. Through this opening up of health professions, we will be creating much greater accessibility to mental health services, especially for the poor and mostly those in the rural areas.

Secondly, we have moved the responsibility for health clinical decisions away from the judiciary to the clinicians. In doing this, we have, as I have already mentioned, set up provision for the establishment of a mental health review board, which will ensure that patients are protected against arbitrary or unnecessary committal and retention. This board will consist of between three and five people, and will include at least a mental health care practitioner, a legal person and, indeed, a community member.

Thirdly, the Bill introduces a 42-hour assessment period, which must be utilised prior to extended involuntary committall. This can take place at a general hospital and will avoid a number of unnecessary admissions and procedures, as well as assist against stigmatisation.

Fourthly, provision is made for involuntary community care. This will significantly aid in meeting one of the Bill’s objectives of the least restrictive environment, while at he same time ensuring that care can be provided to a person who needs treatment but who is unable or unwilling to give consent.

This Bill has been thoroughly and considerably consulted upon and the degree of consensus that has been reached on most issues is, indeed, extremely encouraging. It seems that in the area of mental health, most role-players and political parties agree on where we need to go and even on the legislative mechanisms that are needed in order to reach our objectives.

I know that further consultations with the Bill have been taking place, even after the passing of the Bill by the National Assembly. The very constructive changes which have been recommended by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development and debated in the Select Committee on Health and Social Services will, no doubt, ensure that our legislation does what it should do, which is serve justice and human rights in our country. [Applause.]

Ms L JACOBUS: Chairperson, I think the next time we have a debate on health, the Minister and I should sit together, just to compare notes and agree on who is going to say what. [Laughter.] That would eliminate a situation where some of us are left speechless. But be that as it may, I think I still have a few points that I want to raise in this debate.

Chairperson, hon Minister, special delegates - I have not seen any MECs here, so I am addressing the special delegates and our members - section 10 of the Constitution states that, and I quote:

Everyone has inherent dignity and the right to have their dignity respected and protected.'' Section 9(3) of the very same Constitution also states that, and I quote:The state may not unfairly discriminate directly or indirectly against anyone’’ on the grounds of disability amongst others.

These two sections that I have just quoted form the basis on which this Bill was conceived. I am going to speak particularly on the principle of the Bill. Other colleagues who will come after me will speak on some of the detailed amendments that we have effected, in addition to the ones that came from the portfolio committee.

The objects of the Bill are to, firstly, regulate the mental health care environment; secondly, set out the rights and obligations of mental health care users and the obligations of mental health care providers; thirdly, regulate access to and the provision of mental health care and treatment; and fourthly, regulate the manner in which the property of those with mental illnesses and severe profound intellectual disability may be dealt with by a court of law.

I am going to briefly deal with some of the innovative provisions in the content of the Bill which deal with the rights of the users and the duties of the service providers as they relate to mental health care. These are mainly contained in Chapter III, dealing with patients’ rights, and the Minister has actually referred to some of them as well.

The clauses I will focus on are as follows: firstly, respect human dignity and privacy; secondly, unfair discrimination; thirdly, exploitation and abuse; and lastly, disclosure of information.

Clause 8 deals with respect, human dignity and privacy. I am sure that all of us can relate experiences of members of our community who were perceived to be mentally ill being abused, ridiculed and ill-treated. For some reasons, many people seem to assume that people with mental disabilities do not need to be treated with the same dignity and respect afforded to the rest of the citizens of this country, whether they present themselves for treatment and rehabilitation voluntarily or involuntarily. This clause provides for the care, treatment and rehabilitation of the user to be treated with the respect and dignity that all citizens expect to enjoy.

Clause 10 deals with unfair discrimination. Many a time our mental health care users are subjected to services that are of a lesser quality than those provided to other health care users. Here the assumption is made that the users’ diminished intellect also diminishes their ability to think for themselves, and therefore makes them satisfied with the lesser quality of care administered to them. Clause 10(2), clearly states that, and I quote:

Every mental health care user must receive care, treatment and rehabilitation services according to standards equivalent to those applicable to any other health care user.

Clause 11 covers exploitation and abuse. Because of the limited intellectual capacity, as I have said, of many users, they are often open to abuse and exploitation, especially by those to whose care they are entrusted, but also by the community at large. This clause not only protects the user against exploitation and abuse of any kind by anyone, but also places the responsibility on any person witnessing the abuse or exploitation to report this to the relevant authority.

Clause 13 elaborates on the disclosure of information. As mentioned earlier on, many of us, including the service providers, do not acknowledge that persons with mental disabilities are entitled to privacy and nondisclosure of information pertaining to their mental status. Clause 13(1) addresses this concern.

Clause 13(3) further provides that a mental health care provider may also temporarily withhold or deny users access to information contained in their health records, if that information is likely to seriously prejudice the user or any other person, thus providing protection to both the user and any family of or associate to the user.

Other innovative provisions have also been mentioned by the Minister. She has already referred to the establishment of the review board, which includes a legal person, a mental health care practitioner and a community member to deal with the committal and detention of patients in institutions, previously dealt with only by a magistrate who might have had very limited knowledge of the background and circumstances of a mental health care user. A second provision is the introduction of a 72-hour assessment period prior to involuntary admission at a psychiatric hospital, and a third the shortening of the period of review for involuntary assisted state patients and prisoners who are mentally ill.

In conclusion, I have highlighted these clauses in particular to support the main thrust of the Bill, which is respect for the human dignity of all people, irrespective of their disability, as enshrined in our Constitution. On behalf of the committee, I therefore place before this House, for adoption the Mental Health Care Bill as further amended by the select committee, to be referred back to the portfolio committee for concurrence. [Applause.]

Mrs M A KHUNWANA (North West): Chairperson, hon Minister, colleagues, distinguished guests and officials present here, I greet you all. Thank you, Chairperson, for alloweing me to speak on the effective and responsive aspects of the Mental Health Care Bill. I attach enormous value to this Bill because it reflects on vital issues which make service providers sensitive and responsive to the concerns of the layman. It is a Bill which will uphold the fundamental principals of human rights.

The standing committee perused this Bill and had a public hearing on 13 March 2002, where the department, relevant stakeholders and community members were present. During the deliberations, concerns where raised, but we resolved that the essence and principle of the Bill were applauded and supported by the North West province.

The following were the inputs of the stakeholders during the public hearing: The Bill seems to have concentrated on mentally ill individuals. What about those who are rather mentally retarded? Clause 3(d) mentions mentally retarded - on intellectually challenged or disabled - individuals with regard to their property. What about their care?

Chapter I defines ``mental health care practitioner’’. The Bill does not indicate at which level of care a particular mental health care practitioner shall be practising. That is, should an occupational therapist or a psychologist be called upon to treat a violent patient at clinic level? Does the Bill imply that all the mental health care practitioners will be available at each level - that is, at the clinic, district hospital, regional hospital, provincial hospital, etc? The psychologist mentioned here should be a clinical psychologist.

Regarding clause 14, because the patient is being admitted to a mental health facility for treatment and not for sex, this clause should not be entertained at all. If sex or intimate relationships are allowed, female patients will be abused within the hospital itself. However, leave of absence is usually granted to patients. A patient can have sex with a partner of his or her choice while on leave of absence at his or her home. The requirements of clause 17, in other circumstances, cannot be achieved.

Does the 72-hour period apply to other levels of care or to the provincial psychiatric hospital? If we have to accept this clause, it basically delays the care that we must offer to the sufferer. Again here, the Bill seems to suggest that the patient will only be observed, without any treatment. If the Bill is suggesting that during this 72-hour period, the patient shall receive treatment, which psychiatric illness does the Bill refer to which will be healed within 72 hours, given the fact that the patient has already been treated unsuccessfully for more than six weeks prior to his or her admission to provincial psychiatric hospital?

We feel that this clause and clause 19 must not be entertained as they will interfere with the clinical decisions made by the treating team and will also delay the treatment of the patient. The ultimate end of all these conflicts will frustrate and demotivate the spirit of mental health care practitioners.

According to the Bill the patienct has the right to refuse trearment on discharge from a hospital where he or she was hospitalised. This will lead to a high rate of relapses as we all know that most psychiatric conditions are chronic and treatment must be continued for a long period, or for a lifetime.

Regarding Chapter VI, on state patients, clause 47(1)(a) and (f) must not be allowed. Clause 47(2), dealing with the application for the discharge of a state patient, seems to give more power to the clinical psychologist. Where is the social worker? The social worker’s report on the patient’s rehabilitation is as important, because it has been given to the patient and to the patient’s family.

According to clause 47(6), it seems as if a state patient can only be discharged. What will happen to somebody who was made a state patient by a court just because the trial could not proceed due to the accused’s mental illness, whereas at the time of the commission of the crime the accused had been mentally sane? This patient will walk free instead of going back to the same court after recovering to face prosecution for what he or she did. We feel that the loophole in the old Act also exists in this new legislation.

According to clause 53, the mentally ill prisoner is not guarded, but when a prisoner is at other hospitals for physical ailments, he or she prisoner is guarded. Why not provide a guard for the mentally ill prisoner, as such a prisoner is in fact a dangerous individual who might endanger other innocent patients in a psychiatric ward?

The issue of clause 66(1)(k) should be regarded as a serious matter, as the community struggles a lot to get the SAPS to transport mentally ill patients. The community sometimes refers to an ambulance service. We feel it should be clearly stated that the police must assist the community with transport.

Some police stations still request a letter from a health practitioner before transporting the psychiatric patient. This is not always possible because of the long distances between the home of the patient and the health facility where this letter could be obtained.

If training is necessary, let it start so that police officers are trained to deal with our patients. Cases of sexual abuse of female psychiatric patients by male police officers during the transportation en route to the hospital must also be avoided.

The Bill is silent on matters concerning the care of psychiatric patients after their discharge from hospital, but continuity of care must be maintained.

The essential drug list must be reviewed. Patients who are admitted to provincial hospitals are being given medications that are not found at their local clinics. This leads to the relapse of their psychiatric conditions after their discharge from hospital.

Better communication between the hospital and mental health co-ordinators must be encouraged. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms E C GOUWS: Chairperson, hon Minister - may I say, my favourite Minister

• colleagues and members, the promotion of mental health is one of the cornerstones of the health policy of South Africa. According to the Mental Health Care Bill, mental health is to become a health issue like any other health problem. The purpose is to bring community services closer to mentally ill patients instead of only sending them to institutions.

Mental health has acquired the label of the illness that one does not dicuss or speak about. Mental illness has always been poorly understood: The title of new Bill helps to destigmatise mental illness. The main aim of the Bill is the care, treatment and rehabilitation of persons with mental illness. It ensures the protection of the person’s human rights. The inclusion of Chapter III, which deals with human dignity and patient rights, is particularly applaudable.

Hierdie wetsontwerp is ‘n noodsaaklikheid wat eintlik lankal in die Wetboek moes wees. Die wet van 1973 was werklik in vele opsigte ontoereikend en in sommige gevalle het dit gegrens aan ongrondwetlike optrede en onwettige diskriminasie teenoor geestelik gestremdes. Die vorige wet het absoluut niks gedoen om die stigma waaraan geestelik gestremde persone onderworpe was te verbeter nie. Dit was beskou as ‘n skande om ‘n familielid te hê wat aan ‘n geestelike afwyking ly. Sulke lede van families is weggesluit van die samelewing se kritiese blikke.

So onlangs as ‘n maand gelede is ‘n jong man in sy vroeë twintigerjare met ‘n geestesgesondheidsprobleem by sy ouers se huis aan ‘n boom vasgeketting gevind. Sy ouers was nie tuis nie - hulle werk albei bedags, want hulle is arm mense - en die 24-jarige man was daagliks aan sy lot oorgelaat. Hierdie geval is nie daar in die heuwels van ons verre platteland teëgekom nie, maar wel in die onmiddellike omgewing van Port Elizabeth. Niemand het geweet van die bestaan van die jong man nie, wat ‘n lewe van hel moes gehad het, omdat die ouers nie die bespotting van die gemeenskap wou verduur nie.

Dit is omdat ons mense, ryk, arm of wie ook al, nie die siekte verstaan nie. Die algemene idee van waarom ‘n geestesiek kind in ‘n familie sou voorkom, is dat dit as ‘n straf of ‘n vloek gestuur is aan ouers wat iewers gesondig of gefaal het. Wat ‘n skreiende, blatante verkragting van menseregte het daar nie in hierdie tydperk in ons land se geskiedenis voorgekom nie! (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[This Bill is an essential one that should in fact have been on the Statute Book long ago. The Act of 1973 was really inadequate in many respects and in many cases it bordered on unconstitutional conduct and illegal discrimination towards the mentally disabled. The previous Act did absolutely nothing to improve the stigma to which mentally disabled persons were subjected. It was considered as being a disgrace to have a family member who suffered from a mental illness. Such members of families were locked away from society’s critical glances.

As recently as a month ago a young man in his early twenties who suffers from a mental health problem was found chained to a tree at his parents’ house. His parents were not at home - they both work during the day, because they are poor people - and the twenty-four-year-old man was left to his own devices every day. This case was not encountered in the faraway hills of our rural areas, but in fact in the immediate vicinity of Port Elizabeth. No one knew of the existence of the young man, who must have been in living hell, because the parents did not want to endure the ridicule of the community.

This is because our people, wealthy, poor, or whoever, do not understand the illness. The general idea of why a mentally ill child is born to a family is seen as punishment of or a curse to parents who have sinned or failed somewhere. What flagrant, blatant violation of human rights there has been in this era in the history of our country!] The new Bill focuses on a strong human rights approach to mental health. It also makes the process of certifying a person more complex and introduces a 72-hour - I thought the minister said ``42-hour’‘-assessment period before a person can be certified.

The Bill recognises that there are not enough psychiatrists or doctors, especially in rural areas, to certify a person. According to the Bill a mental health care practitioner can now make a decision, but it also introduces a review board comprising a mental health care practitioner, a legal expert and a community representative to examine the certified patient’s case. The patient and the family will be able to appeal to the board and all certified cases willl be reviewed regularly - first after six months and then every year thereafter.

Ons stem almal daaroor saam dat hierdie ‘n baie goeie wetsontwerp is, maar nou moet dit goed geïmplementeer word. Die Polisie moet spesiaal onderrig en toegerus word om hierdie siek mense te hanteer terwyl hulle in hul sorg en onder hul toesig is.

Die opknapping van psigiatriese hospitale en rehabilitasiesentrums om meer verbruikersvriendelik te wees is vir my baie belangrik. Die mooier en rustiger omgewing kan net tot die voordeel van die pasiënte wees en die openbare indruk van verwaarloosde mense weerspreek. Baie van die inrigtings is tans baie verwaarloos, en sommige gee ‘n mens eintlik die indruk dat dit ‘n tronk kan wees.

Die een groot doel moet wees om die wetsontwerp oor geestesgesondheidsorg se doelstellings te laat slaag om dit dan deel te maak van algemene gesondheidsorg. Die gemeenskap moet ook hul deel bydra om die stigma wat aan geestesgesondheid gekoppel was te elimineer. Daar moet definitiewe ondersteuningsprogramme geïmplementeer word om pasiënte wat uit inrigtings ontslaan word, by te staan … [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[We all agree that this is a very good Bill, but that it should now be implemented well. The Police should be specially trained and equipped to handle these ill people while they are in their care and under their supervision.

The improvement of psychiatric hospitals and rahabilitation centra to be more user-friendly is very important to me. A finer and more peaceful environment could only be to the benefit of the patients and will contradict the public impression of neglected people. Many of the institutions are very neglected at the moment, and some actually give one the impression that they could be prisons.

The one major viewpoint should be to make a success of the objectives of the Mental Health Bill in order to make it part of general health care. The community must also contribute to eliminating the stigma that was associated with mental health. Definite support programmes should be implemented to stand by patients who are released from institutions.]

Dr R A M SALOOJEE (Gauteng): Chairperson, hon Minister of Health and members, just two months ago we celebrated Human Rights Day and now we have before us the Mental Health Care Bill about to be adopted into the legislation as an Act, appropriately giving meaning and content to the lives of a much neglected sector of our population, those affected with mental health disabilities.

We know that the current Mental Health Act of 1973 has many aspects which fail to conform constitutional requirements and breach significant codes of the human rights ethos which underpins our democracy. So this afternoon must be a source of celebration to us engaged in this historic process of discarding the unwanted and replacing it with a new vision and hope for the many millions that were in the past, and still are, treated and even abused under archaic modes of care.

Mental health will now emerge from being the stepchild and pariah of the health system, and join with all other recipients of health care as equals and protected by norms and standards of excellence, equity and dignity. Patients with mental health disabilities should no longer be shunned and kept hidden away by families for fear of being stigmatised as a curse or regarded as an abomination which must be hidden behind locked doors or chained to bedposts in dark rooms.

In fact, the new legislation is fundamentally changed. The mere change in the name of the Act already sounds more humane and reflects the user- friendly objectives underlying the content of the Bill. Importantly, it has a chapter on patient rights, consistent with the spirit of our Constitution. Significant changes in the legislation include emphasis on integrating mental health care into general health care as far as possible; and promoting and safeguarding, on the one hand, the rights of people with mental disabilities, whilst also seeking to balance these rights with those of the public, thus obliterating the previous discriminatory hiatus between the two groups, which was strongly biased in favour of the broader society as opposed to those deemed as lesser humans, not worthy of respect and dignity. This legislation is designed for greater protection and safety of the rights of mental health patients.

Mental health review boards are to be introduced. This will protect patients from unnecessary committal and arbitrary retention. The review boards will be constituted by a legal person, a mental health practitioner and a member of the community. Patients or their next of kin will have the right of appeal, review and discharge - a valuable shift towards greater equity and decency. Also, in respect of patients referred by courts after a criminal offence, where the offenders are not fit to stand trial due to possible mental illness, the Bill makes it easier for the certified state patients or their nearest families to appeal for a discharge and regular review system.

One of the outcomes in revitalising hospital services in Gauteng is to reduce the number of beds in provincial-funded private institutions for patients with chronic mental illnesses. In Gauteng we have reduced the number from 4 000 to 3 500 in the last year, and in the next two years we hope to reduce this to 3 000, through a shift to ambulatory care at primary health care facilities and integration into communities at grass-roots level.

In line with the objectives of the Mental Health Care Bill, Gauteng is already extending reception sites, through designated psychiatric wards at regional and provincial hospitals where these facilities were in short supply in the past and will now be accessible to those needing assessment and care. By shortening the length of hospital stay in respect of acute admissions and deinstitutionalising in many cases requiring mental care, we have enhanced our capacity to deal with more patients in a cost-effective way, and providing and promoting continued care and support within local communities. Of course, it will not completely overcome the financial and funding crisis, but will help to bring service to more people within the constraints of health budgets, with trained community support mechanisms in place and treating mental patients as an integral part of society, thus ensuring that continued appropriate care, treatment and rehabilitation services are made available in line with the primary health care approach. Of course, we are dedicated to promoting and safeguarding the human rights of people with mental disabilities and balancing these rights with those of the public in conditions where a person with a mental disability may infringe upon such rights.

In spite of dealing with mental health problems in the past, there was a lack of population-based data on issues of current economic conditions, poverty and the social impact of HIV/Aids, which places a heavy burden on mental health care.

One of the seriously neglected areas is child and youth mental health services, and we are hoping that with the adoption of the integrated and intersectoral approach, the promotion of child and youth mental health care will receive due attention, and, with appropriate adjustments, services will be more widely available, especially at a time when poverty and family disruptions have great consequences on the development of our young people.

It is estimated that approximately 15%, if not more, of our youth in South Africa are afflicted with mental health disabilities which require psychiatric assessments. Currently, many of these unfortunate, vulnerable victims remain undiagnosed and untreated.

There is also a significant correlation between mental health and substance abuse, especialy alcohol abuse. We need to set firm policies, objectives and strategies to tackle the ever-increasing calamity of drug abuse. Community and primary health care education, training and awareness programmes must be effectively promoted.

The reformulated legislation is designed to give recognition and hope to those who are discriminated against because of their nature of the ailments, the myths, superstitions and ignorance which surround the whole subject of mental health, often defined as madness, and the ostracism of victims which is widely practised. Actually, we have arrived at a position where, broadly, the society must be taught to accept and recognise the mentally disadvantaged as an integral part of health care and an important aspect of the general psychological wellbeing and problems of day-to-day living.

The legislative framework casts its net fairly wide to bring within its fold a comprehensive range of reforms. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms B S MOHLAKA (KwaZulu-Natal): Madam Chairperson, hon permanent and special delegates from all the provinces and Ministers present, especially the Minister of Health, Dr Manto Tshabalala, today I feel greatly honoured to make my contribution to the debate on the Mental Health Care Bill.

It is very exciting to have been part of the special delegates from the Kwazulu-Natal legislature who participated diligently in submitting numerous amendments to the Mental Health Care Bill that were totally accepted by the NCOP.

The Mental Review Board is applauded and one just hopes that it will be able to deal with the matters of mental health care users in a proper manner. For decades mental health care users have been discriminated against. This is partly because of their unpredictable mental state and behaviour, and partly because of their loss of status in the society. Society has a major role to play in accepting an rehabilitating mentally ill patients once they are discharged from psychiatric institutions. It is not acceptable for communities and families to alienate them. It is even worse for communities to refer to mental ill patients as ``mad people’’, bathi uhlanya noma ugeza. Once treated, these men and women should be accepted, as most of them are well and normal. If they are still on follow- up treatment, families must ensure that they take their treatment regularly.

The society’s role is vast. Identifying mentally ill patients and referring them to the relevant institutions is one of the community’s roles. Nowadays individuals are able voluntarily to go to psychiatric hospitals where, upon observation and interviews by clinical psychologists and psychiatric nurses, treatment and rehabilitation are undertaken. It could be you, it could be me tomorrow. Take care.

KwaZulu-Natal supports the Mental Health Care Bill, 2002.

Dr P J C NEL: Madam Chair and hon Minister, I would like to start by extending my party’s appreciation to Prof Freeman and his team from the Department of Health for the many hours of hard work they have put into the creation of this people’s legislation. This legislation will repeal the Mental Health Act of 1973, which is widely considered to be outdated and, in part, unconstitutional. Our Constitution places an obligation on the state to provide access to all spheres of health care, including mental health care.

Our Constitution inter alia prohibits unfair discrimination against any person. This Bill, when it becomes an Act, will bring to an end the horrible mistreatment that mentally ill patients used to receive in the past, as far back as the days when the Bible was written, when patients were isolated and chained like animals to keep them out of society. This legislation will have the effect that the approach to mental health care will drastically differ from the mental health care we know today. It is laudable that one of the main objects of this Bill is the provision of mental health care services within the general health service environment.

The Free State was the first province in South Africa, and in many ways the first in the world, to implement the care of mentally ill patients within the community at primary health care level. In doing so, it reduced the long term of hospitalisation of patients in the Oranjia hospital tremendously.

Mentally ill patients must be treated as all other patients are, with all the rights and privileges of any normal human being. People with mental disabilities are still discriminated against, and are not protected by law. The inclusion of Chapter III, dealing with patients’ rights such as respect human dignity and privacy is therefore imperative.

This Bill, also makes provision for the establishment of a mental Health Review Board. This will protect patients from arbitrary or unnecessary detention.

The provision made for a 72-hour assessment period is also very important because this will prevent, for instance, the locking up of patients against their will just because it suits another person or other persons.

In conclusion, this Bill clearly set out the rights and obligations of mental health care users, as well as the obligations of mental health care providers. We as the New NP believe that the Bill conforms to international standards. We also believe that this is a fair and honest attempt by the state to regulate this particular sphere of health care in a proper and sensible way. The New NP supports the Bill. [Applause.]

Ms W TUSI (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, hon Minister of Health Dr Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, hon members of the NCOP and special delegates, I greet you all. I am proud to tell the hon member Ms E C Gouws, that her favourite Minister comes from our province. Madam Chair, thank you for giving me the opportunity of speaking on the Mental Health Care Bill.

I will begin by applauding everyone who participated in making sure that we came out with a Bill of this nature, namely the Portfolio Committee on Health of the National Assembly, hon members from the NCOP and the provinces and those who participated through public hearings, for example NGOs, CBOs, FBOs, traditional healers and traditional leaders. The Constitution of the Republic of South Africa, Act 108 of 1996, has the Bill of rights enshrined in it, and the Mental Health Care Bill seeks to address the rights of the mentally ill person in compliance with the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa.

Chapter III of the Bill deals with the rights and duties relating to mental health care users. Care of mentally ill persons has been neglected in the past. Mentally ill persons were not treated with the dignity and respect that they deserved as human beings. The fact that mentally ill persons will be taken care of in all health establishments by properly trained mental health care practitioners and then referred to appropriate establishments clearly indicates that this Bill has an integrated approach in caring for mentally ill persons.

Therefore KwaZulu-Natal welcomes and supports the Bill with amendments. [Applause.]

Mr H T SOGONI: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, deliberations on this Bill in the Select Committee on Social Services took considerable time largely due to the complex nature of issues covered in the Bill and the important amendments that were made and which provinces had to carefully consider before the final mandate could be declared. The UDM is satisfied that a complete and thorough process has been followed resulting in a refined product, a law that will effectively serve the best interests of the mental health care users. The Bill therefore receives our support.

The objects of the Bill are clearly set out in Chapter II, including the regulation of the mental health care environment in a way that will provide the best possible mental health care, treatment and rehabilitation that available resources can afford, and the co-ordination of access to mental health care treatment and rehabilitation services to various categories of mental health care users.

Clause 4(a) of the Bill ensures the provision of mental health care services at all levels of health care. This will hopefully address, amongst other issues, the problem of overcrowding in facilities in secondary and tertiary levels. Improving the access to services on a wider scale will presumably benefit both service providers and users. The rights and obligations of mental health care users and the obligations of mental health care providers are also clearly stipulated in Chapter III. To me, the isssue of rights in this Bill is of particular importance because it conforms with the rights of all people irrespective of one’s state of mental health, as enshrined in Chapter 2 of the Constitution.

Kobekekileyo uMphathiswa weSebe lezeMpilo, mandithi eli solotya lomthetho eligxininisa kumalungelo oluntu luyasifudusa mpela kwimeko-ngqondo esiyiqaphela imihla nezolo phandl’apha, apho abantu abagula ngengqondo bezifumana bephantsi kwemeko egadalala nedelekileyo. Maxa wambi, bambi ba de bazifumane bekwimeko yokukhonkxwa ngamatyathanga oku kanye kwezilwanyana ezirhanelwa ngoburhalarhume. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[To the hon the Minister of Health I would like to say that the aspect of this Bill which emphasizes human rights takes us away completely from the mindset that we witness out there every day, where people with mental health problems find themselves subjected to ill-treatment and humiliation. Sometimes some of them even find themselves in chains, just like animals that are believed to be vicious.]

The provision on rights in this Bill will therefore help restore the respect, human dignity and privacy that mental health care users deserve as people. Unfair discrimination, exploitation and abuse will be eliminated.

It is equally important to indicate, however, that at all times and under all circumstances the rights of the mental health care users should be balanced against the safety and wellbeing of the mental health care providers and practitioners who are also exposed and vulnerable to possible attack during the execution of their duties. It is clear, however, that it was not the intention of the drafters to include such provisions as would safeguard the rights of the mental health care providers. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr R Z NOGUMLA: Chairperson, hon Minister of Health and hon Members, I am grateful for this opportunity. It has been clear for some time that the Mental Health Act in its present form is outdated and there are some provisions in it which will not stand up to constitutional challenge. A Bill such as the Mental Health Care Bill is therefore long overdue, but it is most welcome.

One of the major changes that the Bill brings about is a review of the way we, both as lay people and as health professionals, treat people with mental disabilities. All of us have encountered at some stage of our lives, either in our own families or among our friends, someone in our circle who has some form of mental disability. Attitudes differ depending on what type of upbringing we had.

Some of us are taught to respect others regardless of who we are or where we come from. For others, no regard is given for the vulnerability of their fellow human beings. But the most intolerable of attitudes is the gross violation of basic human rights meted out to mental health care patients, especially those in institutions which rely heavily on the good nature of care givers to minister to them.

The media has been filled with horrifying accounts of violent rapes, vicious beatings, the large-scale theft of possessions and property that people with this kind of affliction have been subjected to. In documents evaluating the state of mental health care in our country, researchers found that the current legislation governing the rights of mentally ill persons was severely restrictive, to such an extent that their rights often depend almost entirely on the whims of the hospital authorities.

The chapter dealing with patients’ rights in this Bill provides the legal framework, which sets about rectifying the gross injustices and arbitrary discrimination perpetrated against mental health patients, and allows them to have legal recourse should their rights be infringed upon in any way. This Bill also provides remedies to begin to remove the stigma attached to mental health patients, especially those who are voluntary patients. This means that mental health patients can now have their illnesses treated in the same manner in which any other illness is treated. Mental health patients’ care, treatment and access to facilities is integrated into the general health services environment.

What probably needs to happen after the passing of this Bill is that people’s bad attitudes and stereotyping needs to be discouraged. It will become imperative that throughout the country hospital personnel especially are reorientated to recognise that the fundamental rights of a mentally ill person are equal to that of any other person.

South Africa subscribes to the UN’s resolution on the Protection of Persons with Mental Illness, and the Improvement of Mental Health Care, as passed by the UN General Assembly in December 1991. I believe that with this new Mental Health Care Bill we go a step further, because we now provide for a much wider spectrum of rights to mentally ill patients.

As the ANC we are proud to have been part of this Bill. We know that all provinces have been waiting anxiously for the passing of this Bill so that they can begin the implementation process. We thank all those who have been responsible for the far-reaching goals and ideals encompassed in this Bill. [Applause.]

Mr R MASHABA (Northern Province): Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs here present, colleagues, it should be sufficient for us in the Limpopo to say we concur with what has been said already. As we are speaking last, a number of speakers have already said almost exactly what we had prepared to say in support of this Bill.

However, there are few issues that one would like to raise in support of the Bill. Before I do so, I pass on an apology on behalf of the MEC for health and welfare. He has been out of the country and just came back yesterday and could not join us this afternoon.

We are aware that the rights and health status of mental health care users have been undermined for a long time in our country. We have seen how these people have suffered in communities and families, how they have been neglected, unfairly discriminated against, and how their property and assets have been abused. We have seen that. When this Bill comes along, we feel in the province that we have no choice but to support it. It is long overdue. It should have been passed perhaps immediately after the ushering in of the new order in 1994.

It is our understanding and our firm conviction that the moral fibre and the psyche, perhaps of a nation should be judged through how the nation treats its children and how it treats its people with disabilities, especially people with mental illnesses and mental disorders. Again, we believe that the establishment of mental health review boards will assist in the effective implementation of this Bill.

There is one other issue that the hon Minister has touched on and I also want to reflect on it. It is the issue of traditional healers and spiritual healers. We have these role-players/stakeholders in our communities. They are there; they exist. They are not addressed or catered for, or accommodated in this Bill. But it is our hope in the province that perhaps when the health Bill is drafted, these very important stakeholders/role- players will be accommodated in some way. We cannot run away from the fact that a lot of our peole in our communities still look up to these providers, especially in the rural communities. It is important that we give serious attention to accommodating the spiritual and traditional healers.

As I conclude, I need also to indicate that there is one other area that we feel is not covered in the Bill. When it comes to the social grant benefits of these people, we are silent in terms of how they should be protected. At the end of the day they are not assisted because when they get their benefits, their families and relatives wait for them to collect the grants, and the moneys are grabbed and they land up not having anything left to support them in terms of these grants.

Perhaps we should come up with some mechanism to see how these people should be protected. We are talking about protecting their properties and assests, which is correct. I am not sure if that extends to the protection of their social grant benefits as well. We, from the province of peace, Limpopo, would like to support this Bill very strongly so that it is passed into law and implementation can start immediately. [Applause.]

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, on a point of order: I just want to enquire whether it is parliamentary for members Gouws, Nel, Botha and Theron to eat sweets on that side of the House without sharing with this side, for it is written that the people shall share. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: That is not a point of order, hon member.

Ms Q D MAHLANGU: Chairperson, they are leaving Mr Raju outside … [Inaudible.]

Mr J O TLHAGALE: Chairperson, hon Minister and members, we come from a human practice in which very often persons with a disability of some kind did not, in the majority of cases, receive the same amount of recognition or care as the normal people. Their care takers often confined them either to the backyards or to secluded rooms. They were not free to mix freely with other people and they even accepted their situation as such.

It was as though they were second-class citizens and their treatment everywhere was equivalent to that of a second-class citizen. Very often they would be charged to do some menial or degrading work in a manner calculated to exploit them because of their mental condition.

The Bill before the honourable House seeks to promote the human rights of people with disability in terms of the Constitution and to improve their mental health services through the primary health care approach. Chapter 3 of the Bill covers the rights and duties relating to mental health care users. They are entitled to respect, human dignity and privacy; to consent to care, treatment and admission to health establishments; and to not being unfairly discriminated against, exploited or abused.

A provision of the Bill with which I am not comfortable is the extension of the right of intimate relationships to adult mental health care users whilst they are admitted for treatment and rehabilitation in a health establishment. I fear that the privilege could be abused if an intimate relationship develops between a patient and a health care giver who could consequentlty detain the patient for longer than is necessary in order to continue the relationship. [Laughter.] Notwithstanding that, the UCDP fully supports this Bill. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Thank you, Mr Tlhagale, for that kind of entertainment.

Dr R T RHODA (Western Cape): Chairperson, hon Minister, members of the House, I want to apologise for the absence of Minister Meyer owing to other urgent commitments. It is, however, my pleasure and privilege to address this House on the issue of the Mental Health Care Bill.

The Western Cape supports the Mental Health Care Bill which is scheduled for enactment in September this year to replace the Mental Health Act, Act 18 of 1973. Mental health care has progressed in the past 30 years and the old Act is widely considered to be outdated and, in part, unconstitutional.

The Bill therefore seeks to ensure that in line with the primary health care approach, apppropriate care, treatment and rehabilitation services are made available to people with mental health problems.

The best possible health care in the best interests of the user must be accessible within the general health services environment. The new mental health services must cascade down to the level of clinics, community health centres and district hospitals, and they must be integrated into various levels of care, markedly more so than at present.

In essence, the Bill promotes and safeguards the human rights of people with mental disabilities. In terms of this measure, the dignity and privacy of the person concerned must, at all times, be respected. Under no circumstances may there be discrimination against anyone on the grounds of their mental condition. They may not be exploited or illtreated and, in certain circumstances, they are entitled to legal representation.

In terms of this measure, a new category of health professional is created, that of the mental health care practitioner. Mental health care practitioners can be drawn from the following professionals: psychiatrists, registered medical practitioners, nurses in occupational therapy, social workers trained in mental health care, and psychologists.

The introduction of the new professional category of mental health care practitioner will now allow for much greater accessibility to mental health services at the various levels of care. It will help to ensure that mental health care functions are carried out by people able and qualified to give the best possible care, in the best interests of the user.

Six months after the treatment of an assisted patient - that is, someone who cannot make an informed decision concerning treatment, but does not refuse such treatment - and every 12 months thereafter, the head of the health institution must ensure that the assisted patient’s mental health status is reviewed. A similar provision exists for involuntary mental health care patients and for state patients. The provisions that apply to sentenced prisoners specify, inter alia, that the mental health status of a mentally ill prisoner be reviewed every six months. Mental health review boards have been established, which have various powers and functions with regard to people with mental disabilities. They will, for example, be able to consider appeals.

In the case of an involuntary admission, the head of a health institution can decide on a 72-hour assessment period before the person is admitted. This 72-hour assessment period, prior to admission to the psychiatric hospital, has been introduced because many people recover in this period. Thus, we can avoid problems and save on the administration associated with certification.

The head of a health institution can also consider applications for transfer to maximum security facilities and consider periodic reports on the status of mentally ill prisoners. We must protect patients from arbitrary and unnecessary committal and retention, and apply the future Act’s mechanisms for defined, earlier, more regular and more empathetic review.

In summary we trust that the Bill will impact in positive ways on mental health care in the Western Cape which has an important role to fulfil in the South African milieu. The fundamental principles in realising the rights of the patient, as well as the regulatory framework of the review board and the 72-hour period of review before a decision is made on committing a person, are crucial.

The ways in which we view mental health matters and act on them are about to be transformed in a deep and fundamental way. We note the shortening of the period of review for involuntary assisted state patients and mentally ill prisoners. Mental health review board interaction must protect the patients from arbitrary or unnecessary committal and retention, as has happened in the past when certification was carried out by a magistrate.

The human resource and financial implications of the new proposals, especially those of the review boards, are a source of major concern.

The expected increase in workload could mean that mental health review boards may have to be established for all psychiatric hospitals, and not only for the associated psychiatric hospitals as a cluster.

All other health care institutions dealing with acute psychiatric patients should be assisted in order to comply with the introduction of the 72-hour assessment period. The enactment of the Western Cape Health Facility Board’s Act implies that the provincial Minister of Health may establish health facility boards for psychiatric hospitals in addition to the mental health review boards. It is important, therefore, to note that the functions and powers of the two boards are vastly different. In this respect we do not anticipate that any major conflict will arise from the operation of the two boards. [Applause.]

Ms S N NTLABATI: Chairperson, it is difficult to be the last speaker on a Bill which is not controversial and when everybody has said everything. In reality, the Bill affects all of us, as was said. For lack of a better word, I will say that we are all mad but to different degrees.

Ms P C P MAJODINA: Chairperson, on a point of order: is it parliamentary for a member to address the House sitting down? The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, I have not yet recognised you. Miss Ntlabati, will you please take your seat. Hon member, on what point of order are you rising?

Ms P C P MAJODINA: Chairperson, I thought she was addressing the House sitting down. I did not realise that she was standing. I am sorry. [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! You may continue, hon member.

Ms S N NTLABATI: Chairperson, this is a typical example of laughing at a disability. The member is guilty of violating my rights as a person. [Laughter.]

As I have said, the Bill affects us. This proves what I have said: we are all mad but just in different degrees. [Laughter.] With this Bill, we have reached a new era of public health, especially with regard to mental health care, an era of social justice and restoration of dignity. All of us here, either in our families or society, even the families who loved those who were intellectually disabled, have committed sins in the sense that a disabled person would be overprotected and deprived of an opportunity to develop the little potential that he or she had.

I will not say much of the abuse by society; everybody has mentioned this. The mental health care workers have abused them. They would wake up at 5:00 am, early in the morning, poor black females who clean their dormatories. They would wake up and go to the dormatories of the black and white workers to clean them. It has happened; I am talking from experience. But now it is protected; it will never happen. That was tantamount to forced labour.

I am happy about clause 1. The definition of a psychopath has been removed. This means that people who are psychopaths, otsotsi, sweet and charming tongues, are now going to face the wrath of the law. They are no longer cared for as mentally ill people. We are happy about that.

I am happy that there is a clear specification of the rights of workers themselves, because we usually speak of patients’ rights, forgetting that the worker also has rights. In this Bill, the worker, too, is protected.

With regard to clause 14, I echo what the other two people have said about regulating love affairs in a mental hospital. I still do not really see how this fits in. We send people to mental institutions for assistance, for help and rehabilitation. I do not know, some people may say that love affairs themselves could be a form of rehabilitation. I do not know. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

There was a clause in the previous Act about the role of the police, in terms of which any Tom, Dick or Harry could go to the police and report that so-and-so was a danger to society and had to be locked up, but I am happy that that is now regulated. Now only a mental health practitioner can actually do that. It was open to abuse. If I feel that my neighbour makes a noise and there is nothing I can do, I just hate her, I could run to the police and tell them that she is mad. We are thankful that this provision has been removed.

With regard to clause 47, we have said that we will accept this clause with the amendment. We have removed the reference to the ``High Court’’ because the High Court has a backlog, and mental health issues would have to wait. Now we are saying that any judge can deal with this. The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M L Mushwana): Order! Hon member, your time has expired. [Applause.] I just want to assure Ms Majodina that indeed Ms Ntlabati was on her feet. [Laughter.]

The MINISTER OF HEALTH: Chairperson, I am freezing. It is very cold here but it is not a reflection a the members of Parliament. I think members are very warm and very considerate.

First of all, I would like to acknowledge the apologies of the two MECs who are not able to be with us here. I am hoping that some of the MECs are here even though they have not spoken. I only have tow apologies.

I would like Dr Rhoda please to give the MEC of the Western Cape my warmest regards and convey this message to him. I plead with him to open his facilities for the Eastern Cape Province and the Northern Cape Province to refer their patients with mental disabilities to the Western Cape for specialised care at no cost. [Applause.]

I speak for the Eastern Cape because there is no representative from the Eastern Cape. I regret that the Eastern Cape did not make an intervention in this debate. I am sure that the House will accept the apologies from my dear colleague, MEC Sello Moloto. He arrived in this country before me. I think we must get our facts correct. We were together in Geneva at the World Health Assembly. He left me there. [Interjections.] He was probably held up at the Heathrow airport; as members know, there were problems there. He probably spent 24 or 36 hours there. But he left before me. I indeed appreciated his support at the World Health Assembly. It was not an easy World Health Assembly. I am hoping that Loreta will ask us at least to share our experiences at the World Health Assembly.

I do think that in a way we are under siege and there are certain positions that we must take, as a country, to defend the health care system. If I may just digress a little bit, at the World Health Assembly there was suddenly a notion that we should not even talk about primary health care, which I really found bizarre, because the principles of primary health care, in fact, emanated from this country. We had to defend those positions with all our might. There was also suddenly a notion that we should not be talking about reproductive rights to information and services, because there is an undercurrent that we are then also talking about abortions.

Therefore the proposal was that we must rather talk about abstinence education. But I hope we have an opportunity to come and preach it. My colleague Sello Moloto really supported us at the World Health Assembly, during a very difficult situation in which we had to vote in support of the Palestinians, calling on the director-general to make all resources available for their health needs. Again we were being motivated not to support that resolution, but we did.

I am sorry not to respond to the debate, but I thought that this was very important. Let may just quickly go through what Mr Mashaba also said, because I put these responses together. He spoke about social grants. I think it is important to have raised those issues, but let me assure him that we are working together with the Department of Social Development on a comprehensive social system, and therefore we did not think it was necessary to include it in this piece of legislation. It is being catered for in another piece of legislation.

He also referred to traditional healers. May I remind the House that the department is actually in the process of establishing a traditional healers’ council, and, when we are ready, we will come back to this House and talk about it. I have already spoken about the comprehensive social security system, which we are dealing with.

Ngicela ukusho kuMnu uNogumla wenhlangano ye-African National Congress ukuthi sishicilela leli bhukwana esalisebenza kakhulu elibizwa ngokuthi i- ANC Green Book kanye ne-National Health Plan. Siyabonga kakhulu ukuthi uvumelana nathi kulokho. [I would like to tell Mr Nogumla of the ANC that we are now publishing useful booklets, which are known as the ANC Green Book, and National Health Plan. Thank you very much for agreeing with us on that.]

I really should not upset the apple cart because it is very clear that there is consensus in this House about this Bill. In fact, the debate has almost been very boring, because all of us have been saying yes. I have never been in a debate that had so much consensus. But to me, indeed, this is an important signal which proves that it is possible for us to have national consensus on issues that are really of national interest. At least, for once, we did not have spoilers in this debate.

I am just sorry that our colleague from the North West has left. It seems to me that she probably did not attend the majority of the select committee debates. I think she was almost closed to being a spoiler in this debate. Most of the issues that she raised had, in my view, had really been attended to. I just felt that maybe they should have invited us to the North West to go and explain some of the issues that she raised, because it was not the Bill that was being discussed.

For example, she talked about mental retardation. She is not on top of the issues. We have moved away from that discription, and now we talk about intellectual disabilities. I hope we can, think in the near future, assist her to understand that we move on with terminology and science. We do not stick to the things that we used to know, but we move on. We now talk about intellectual disabilities and not mental retardation, because, in itself, mental retardation is about discrimination and stigmatisation. If we talk about intellectual disability, we acknowledge that even within disabilities, people can still do things for themselves, as long as we create a particular environment, so that they can at least reach their full potential, even with their intellectual disabilities.

She advocates psychologists. I think we just have to be realistic. We cannot have a psychologists in each and every corner of this country. This is why we are talking about mental health care practitioners, because at least we can retrain people who are already working and give them some skills. To train a psychologist takes a long time. In any case, as we all know, people would rather go to a mental health care practitioner than go to a psychologist, because there are also some negativite connotations about them.

I hope my colleagues from the ANC will assist our sister from the North West to understand these terminologies and encourage her to participate in the discussions of the select committee. In any case, just to assist her, I should point out that a patient who is no longer ill cannot be treated in a psychiatric hospital. What the Bill seeks to do is to help us manage people with mental disabilities in our communities, because we think that this will help. Of course, she also has concerns about the way in which the board is constituted. She wants to go back to a judiciarlly controlled board and we think, as I said, that we need a multisectoral approach, as we do with HIV/Aids. Therefore we need a multisectoral board to assist have.

The Bill also does deal with continuity of care, which I think she really overlooked.

Allow me to refer to another point that she raised, the issue of allowing sexual relationships in our institutions. I think allowing patients to engage in sexual relations will not actual lead to the exploitation of women. What we are seeking to do is to ensure that we have sexual education and protection and prevention programmes, because if we pretend that these things do not exist, and close our eyes to them, it will not help, as much as we have been closing our eyes and ears to sexual relations in HIV/Aids.

She also referred to the EDL, or essential drug list. Obviously we will continually be reviewing the essential drug list. It is not cast in stone. As we move along, we will also be reviewing it and accommodating new medicines and knowledge around mental health conditions. I am hoping that in our ANC health committee Mr Mashaba and I can assist her to understand these issues.

I am very happy that Ms Gouws raised sharply the impact of mental illnesses on family life. I am sure that she will agree with me that this Bill goes a long way in addressing these issues. But, as I have indicated before, we need to change the attitudes of family members and communities at large, in order to deal with mental health issues comprehensively. I would like to thank the hon member for identifying me as one of her best Ministers. I will take her out for a cup of tea tomorrow. [Applause.] [Laughter.] Maybe for lunch, actually, not just a cup of tea.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you, hon Minister. Your time has expired.

The MINISTER: May I just say one more thing? I guess what I wanted to say is really to thank the committee for affirming the rights of mentally ill people so that they are not discrinimated against. I thank Ms Loretta Jacobus for chairing the committee and I hope that the committee will play its oversight role diligently, to ensure that the provisions of this legislation are implementated. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Question put: That Bill be agreed to.

Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Consitution.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, hon members of the National Council of Provinces, we will be forgiven if we speak at length on this matter, because we think it is important to draw attention to, and highlight the importance of, issues aroung statistics.

The main role of any national statistics agency is to give policy formulators and decision-makers the key cohesive, harmonised official statistics that they require to evaluate progress in the country and to make informed policy decisions on the way forward. Information of a statistical nature is essential for democratic governance, but it has to be accurate, reliable, timely, accessible and understandable.

Statistics South Africa, as the main producer of official statistics, has a fundamental responsibility and commitment to the country to provide it with the highest possible quality statistics. On its own, however, Statistics SA cannot collect all the statistics that are required for every aspect of governance. Other Government bodies should assist in this process, but Statistics SA has the responsibility of co-ordinating the process, to ensure that statistics produced by other Government departments, from registers and other sources, are of the same stardard as our official statistics, so that these collections can be recognised as official statistics.

A national statistics system has therefore been initiated to advocate for shared development indicators across departments, put in place a management system and its associated databases for statistical information, put in place a process for capacity-building, and promote the production and use of statistics. The need for a national statistics system for providing a broad range of sustainable quality statistics is underpinned by the need to avoid duplication of collections within Government, to set standards for collection, and to prevent work being done in isolation in order to promote data integration.

The national statistics system also aims to enhance the capacity of the state to formulate and evaluate policy decisions based on appropriate and quality data. This will be achieved through the creation of an integrated network of state institutions using common standards. To this end, we will improve on the existing relations and infrastructure in the provinces.

Statistics SA, together with the Presidency, has held a workshop to discuss the way forward on a national statistics system. The main focus was on putting in place a process for identifying development indicators, setting common standards, and sharing definitions, classifications and methodologies. Statistics SA is now in the process of identifying indicators, in consultation with national and provincial Government departments.

Statistics SA has continued to engage in a wide variety of collaborative activities with other departments. These range from the construction of a national spatial database to conducting user-driven household surveys and conducting a population census in 2001 that will provide provincial breakdowns on the social, demographic and economic characteristics of our population.

Another ongoing and noteworthy crosscutting initiative has been the creation of the business register infrastructure, developed together with the South African Revenue Services, the Department of Labour and the Department of Trade and Industry. An accurate, up-to-date business register with the name, address and classification of each business is an essential tool for a statistics office, since it allows for representative samples to be drawn for all formal business surveys. This enables Statistics SA to report more accurately on the economic situation of the country.

The Demarcation Board in their delimitation of local government boundaries to a large extent applied the data from Census 1996 and other surveys conducted by Statistics SA. The allocation of budgets, although not exclusively, is driven by the population numbers. In order to improve its data collection, Statistics SA has introduced a number of new steps within the organisation in relation to quality. It has established a quality and methodology unit to give operational areas in the organisation advice and assistance on all aspects of statistics collection, including sampling, raising factors, statistical analysis and quality control.

With the assistance of Statistics Sweden, it has started to introduce a systematic quality management approach to its work. This involves making everyone conscious of quality, examning each work process and identifying ways to improve them. Three pilot projects have started to use this approach, namely the establisment of the new business frame, maintaining a master sample for household surveys and recruitment practices.

The provincial offices of Statistics SA will be actively involved in systematic quality management of their projects. They have already been participating actively in field work for maintaining the master sampling frame in their provinces.

For sustainsble quality assurance, training for statistical capacity- building within the organisation has been given a high priority. In South African universities, there is no programme at present on official statistics or the promotion ot its use, so we have had to resort to other means to obtain relevant training to build statistical capacity within the organisation. The point here is that even in respect of those people who have gone through university and who have done statistics at university, one still has to make statisticians out of them, because of the way training takes place at our universities.

In order to buil statistical capacity within the organisation, nine people are currently studying for postgradulate degrees and diplomas at the Institute of Statstics and Applied Economics at Makerere University, Uganda. Another nine will be sent to study there in September 2002.

Twelve people are currently studying for certificates and diplomas at the East African Statistical Training Centre in Tanzania. A further 12 will be sent in September this year. One person has been sent to complete a PhD at the African Census Analysis Project at the University of Pennsylvania. Nine people are attending courses at the University of the Witwatersrand, leading to a Master’s degree in Data Mining. Three people have been shortlisted for IT studies in Pakistan through the Jacob Zuma Trust.

We have also established a statistical capacity-building unit within the organisation. This unit will look at promoting basic statistical and economic literacy training, both within the organisation and in the country as a whole, encouraging statistical competence for users of our data, and ensuring advanced statistical competence. An example of promoting basic statistical literacy is the Census at School project, carried out jointly by the Department of Education and Statistics SA. This data set will be made available on the web and participating schools will also obtain their specific data.

Researchers and policy-makers in a range of Government departments are to be trained jointly under the auspices of Samdi, in conjunction with Statistics SA, to enhance usage of statistics. In this regard, we are exploring the creation of an institution in South Africa that will train in official statistics.

Members of staff in the provincial offices participate in all aspects of capacity-building. They are responsible for training field workers for household surveys and monitoring their performance.

Our nine provincial statistics offices have been undertaking various exciting activities during the past year. A statistics forum has been created in each province, where regular meetings are held to discuss relevant statistics issues. These forums are generally well attended by provincial departments. Two networks, the Vital Statistics and the Child Statistics Network, are functioning in each province. Each provincial office continues to give information to users of statistics at both national and provincial level. These offices also give advice and assistance to provincial and local governments on the conducting of various surveys, for example, drawing a representative sample, questionnaire design and data capture.

The main task of the provincial offices in 2001 was to conduct all activities related to the field work for the population census, including identifying enumeration area boundaries, listing the dwelling units within each enumeration area, training the enumerators and other staff, and co- ordinating the collection of census information. Between them, they were required to manage 95 regional offices, using temporary staff to run them. They also conduct the field work for household surveys on an ongoing basis. Provincial offices are responsible for the upkeep of the statistical geographical information system for their province.

For the first time since 1994, Statistics SA will be calculating the gross geographic product separately for each province. The national GDP will be broken down further to give these provincial statistics. This publication will be released in November 2002, and I am sure that members of this House will be particularly interested in the information that will be published in November.

In order to comply more fully with the Public Finance Management Act, Statistics SA has introduced the following steps. An internal audit has been requested to give specific attention to risks and controls in provincial offices. It has also appointed nine provincial financial managers, one for each provincial office, to improve Public Finance Manangement Act compliance. A projects office has been established within Statistics SA to log all projects, as well as their functions in relation to the organisation, their budgets, risks and financial management, and all their documentation. We aim to develop a management information system around these projects to enable the organisation to manage its projects more effectively and efficiently.

In its quest for best statistical practice, Statistics SA is making a significant contribution to improving statistics worldwide by participating actively as a member of the United Nations Statistics Commission. Regionally we have continued our work with SADC on the 2000-02 round of censuses, as part of the Africa Census Millennium Project. The following countries have held or will hold a population census or a large-scale sample survey during the period 2000 to 2002: Botswana, Mauritius, Zambia, Tanzania, Namibia and South Africa. Some items in the questionnaire are common to all these censuses. And I must remind members that the idea of this co-operation within SADC is to ensure that we try to establish a region wide statistical base that would help us in planning for development and growth in our own region.

Statistics SA also continues to contribute to the efforts of the SADC secretariat in harmonising the region’s measurements relating to demographic, social and economic statistics. We have continued our process in taking the lead in time-use studies which, amongst other issues, highlights unpaid female labour. This is a report that was released last year and I would urge members who have not seen that document to actually go and read it in order to see how South Africans use their time. Members will find it interesting. We have been supporting other SADC statistical agencies in implementing such studies. We have also offered our assistance in the area of poverty mapping in the SADC region. In addition, Statistics SA is taking the leadership in the promotion of analysis and the use of census data.

We continue to adhere to the IMF’s special data dissemination standards, the so-called SDDS, and data integrity requirements to inform sound macroeconomic policies. SDDS adherence means producing accurate, timely statistics and releasing them to all users at the same time without due influence from any quarter. This type of information flow facilitates confidence in our financial markets. What this means is that when Statistics SA releases statistics in terms of the SDDS, even the Minister of Finance would not have had prior sighting of those figures. So, that really ensures the integrity of that information.

In addition, in keeping with our commitment to transparency and adherence to these international standards, our economic and financial data have been assessed and found to be compliant with the IMF requirements for their Report on Observance of Standards and Codes, the so-called ROSC.

Statistics SA has widely disseminated its products, both through electronic media and through paper products. But we are not sure of the extent which these statistics are actually used by policy-makers and Government departments. Our marketing and advocacy component is promoting the use of statistics by, amongst others, providing Census 1996 data for free. We will also make Census 2001 products freely available. I must say at this point that there have been very good examples of departments and tiers of government that have used the information that came out of Census 1996 for their planning and monitoring purposes. But I am raising the point, really to try to urge and encourage greater use of statistics by governmental agencies, but also by agencies outside of Government. Statistics SA’s key strategic objectives for the next three years are to further develop and implement the national statistics system; to continue to improve the quality, not only of the content of statistics, but also the skills of the people and the systems within the organisation that are essential for good statistical production; to strengthen the organisational capacity, including provincial statistical capacity; to improve dissemination through producing even better paper-based and electronic products and enhancing their marketing; and to comply with international and national standards for statistics collection, analysis and dissemination.

Statistics SA will therefore continue to engage in a series of activities to improve its statistical collections during the financial year 2002-03. To this end, Stats SA will meet the preconditions for the successful collection and dissemination of statistics, namely compiling a regularly updated, comprehensive business register and conducting a well-run population census providing the basic tools for drawing samples.

An immediate challenge to the organisation is the data processing of the second census of the population under democratic rule. Through Census 2001, we are introducing new technology by scanning documents or questionnaires on a grand scale. The benefits of this system are being explored for all paper-based processing in Stats SA. It has been offered to Sars and Home Affairs. The first results from Census 2001 should be available by the end of April 2003. Provinces and local government structures will have detailed, small-area information available to them for planning.

The results of the survey in the 13 nodal areas to obtain baseline statistics for the Integrated Rural Development Strategy - this document I have here - will be formally released shortly between the Minister of Finance and the Minister for Provincial and Local Government. These statistics will provide the basis against which to measure change, as and when new projects are implemented in these nodes.

The report focusing on a comparison of employment and unemployment statistics between 1995 and 1999 and the comparison of South Africa with other countries is currently being finalised. A second report on earning and spending in South Africa is being prepared. This report compares data on income and expenditure in 1995 and in 2000. At present Stats SA is engaged in a project of national importance to capture and analyse causes of death in South Africa from 1997 to 2001, in collaboration with the Departments of Home Affairs and Health and other institutions. This will give the country an understanding of age-specific and sex-specific causes of deaths, including an indication of the magnitude of HIV/Aids-related deaths.

This is the project that was initiated in order for us to understand the mortality trends in our country. And what things are killing our people, so that we can make appropriate responses in policy terms and programme terms understanding very clearly what the things are that kill most of our people most.

In addition to the products that were previously made available in 1996, Census products for 2001 will be made available without cost to users on the Internet in all 11 official languages for all small areas in the country. It will be possible to aggregate this data upwards to local, provincial and national government level. In preparation for this event, Census 1996 results are being prepared to test out the software, and will soon be made available for users on the Internet in all 11 official languages.

In conclusion, we are pleased that this organisation continues to be resilient and to adapt to change. It has revitalised the statistics system and given prominence to social and demographic statistics. It has created a user-friendly census database and user-friendly household survey databases. It has re-engineered economic statistics and continues to address the limitations that exist across series, especially those relating to employment. In terms of regional obligations, it has taken the lead and SADC has assigned South Africa the task of being the focal point for the SADC round of censuses from 2000 to 2002. The organisation is well poised to deliver its own census results by April 2003.

Although the challenges are extensive, the vision of the organisation is clear, the direction has been defined, and there is substantial movement in implementing strategies to ensure that the vision is realised. [Applause.]

Ms Q D MAHLANGU: Chairperson, the Deputy Minister should have a member like the hon Gouws who will tell him straight to his face that she or he likes him. Mohseen told me about that, so I was encouraging him to tell that to the Deputy Minister. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]

On a serious note, for the ANC and the Government May is the month …

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: The hon member Gouws is going out. Does she have a problem? I see that the member is moving forwards and backwards. [Laughter.] Please continue hon Mahlangu.

Ms Q D MAHLANGU: May is the month of rural, urban and community development and I think it is therefore fitting to debate the Statistics South Africa Budget Vote, as outlined by the ANC as the organisation which has a vision. Before I go into the debate and discuss what Stats SA is all about. Let me say that I have a vision or a dream that one day I will see all members of parliament in the two spheres of government and councillors and everybody else understanding and appreciating the role of statistics in this country. That would be a very important achievement in our society because, without statistics, nothing can be done which will inform us what to do, when to do it, and for whom to do it. If that dream could become true, I think the organisation and the Ministry at large would appreciate that. [Interjections.]

I also want to quote the president of the ANC and President of the country, President Thabo Mbeki, who said in his statement on 8 January:

That rebirth requires that Africa should overcome centuries of poverty, hunger, disease and underdevelopment. It demands that Africa should catch up with the rest of humanity in terms of social, economic, technological and scientific development.

I am going to talk mainly on this kind of thing in my speech. What I have just quoted, in my view, is very important because it captures the role of statistics in redressing the imbalances of the past.

In 2001, when we debated this Budget Vote in the NCOP, we called upon all South African citizens to co-operate with the enumerators in their quest to count all of us. I am happy to report that this task was well executed, and I want to commend the Statistician-General, Mr Pali Lehohla, in his absence and his senior management team in the organisation for their sterling leadership in this regards. They have conducted the census without any inhibitions and we did not see any demonstrators by people who had not been paid, etc. In my view that demonstrates the leadership quality this organisation has and the task they are faced with.

As for the products of Census 2001, amongst other things which are going to come out of this census, are key indicator is that it is going to give us data for small areas in the country, because right now we do not know what the design of a particular small town in the country is. This census is going to give us the details.

It is also going to give an information breakdown even down to a suburb where some of us liven, even in villages such as Qunu and other place where people have never had those kinds of details. This census is going to give us that kind of information.

Secondly two, it will also tell us how many households or people have access to basic services or basic facilities in the country, whether water, toilets or community buildings. These results will be able to give us information. Thirdly the census will also be able to give us the education, demographic and employment characteristics of individuals in South Africa. The Deputy Minister of Finance has talked about some of these things.

Fourthly, this information will be confidentialised. People must not think that, because the enumerators went into their houses, this information will be published. Pemmy Majodima said that this was one of her problems. The information will be confidentialised for the purpose of assisting policy- makers to make the right decisions.

Amongst other things which are going to be important when these census results come out is that provinces in particular, in terms of the review of the equitable share formula, are going to be helped by this kind of information in shaping the road ahead as we continue to build this country from the shambles which it was in in the previous era. Also, the outcome of the results will be visible when we debate the Budget Vote of this organisation and of other departments in 2004-05 because the results will be out in 2003.

Another factor which continues to come out from time to time when we visit Statistics SA and from our discussions with them as a committee is how often a census should be conducted in a country. In other countries it is 10 years, while in South Africa it is every five years. Why we continue to do it in South Africa every five years is because of the urgent need for statistical information on a smaller area level. As I have indicated earlier, that kind of information does not exist. So as we roll out programmes and and allocate resources, we should, from time to time, be able to analyse whether we are making inputs or whether we are going back and forth, in order to change the strategy if necessary.

As I said earlier, what we must remember as the ANC Government with all these organisations and, in particular, with Statistics SA is that we are trying to rebuild the country. The census was not conducted over a period of time until the ANC took over in 1994, with the census being properly conducted across all races in 1996. So the 2001 census was the second one. This point cannot be overemphasised.

Key stakeholders like the UFFC, try to recommend to Government what formula should be used in the allocation of resources in the three spheres of government, and this kind of information becomes critical. Interaction with the SA Reserve Bank, the HSRC, the CSIR, other government departments, the Medical Research Council and all other spheres of government in this regard is very important because through the national statistical system that the Deputy Minister talked about, there will be space for these organisations to be part of the official statistics if they conform to standards, as set out by the Statistician-General in consultation with users, producers and suppliers of statistics.

The National Statistics System will facilitate the production of firstly, developmental indicators; secondly, statistical capacity in the country; thirdly, the management system for statistical information; and fourthly, the national data warehouse.

I would like to take this opportunity, again, to congratulate the young men and women who work tirelessly in the warehouse. We had the opportunity to meet them when the select committee and the portfolio committee visited them in April. The dedication that we saw from these young people despite the fact that they were working part time, gave us encouragement that this country has a future in these young people who are growing up here.

Amongst other things that Statistics SA is doing, or has done, with the money that we vote for on a yearly basis is the mortality statistics. These statistics will be able to give us an indication of what causes of death could be. The first point in establishing cause of death will be to establish the primary cause of death and, secondly, to establish the secondary cause of death. That will help us to understand, as the Deputy Minister has said again, why people young and old are dying, instead of continuing to speculate that people are dying of HIV/Aids even when they are 80 years old, because that is the trend and the perception continuing out there. These statistics will be able to give every South African and every policy-maker this kind of information for us to know exactly why people are dying.

Secondly, the other project that the organisation is involved in is a numbering project in the rural areas. As we know, many houses in villages in rural areas do not have numbers. The organisation has embarked on a project in which they go to these villages and give each and every house a number so that when they conduct a census they will know that there are house numbers. This project, in my view, is very important because it helps communities to be easily identified and is also important for the purposes of interaction, as is happenning in the townships as apartheid denied us all these kinds of things.

This project is happening in the Northern Province in a village called Butsuleni.

This third point is around the much-awaited gross …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! I am very sorry, hon member, your time has expired. I wanted to give you more time but unfortunately I could not. Thank you, hon member. [Applause.]

Dr E A CONROY: Mnr die Voorsitter, agb Adjunkminister van Finansies en kollegas, die lede van die Gekose Komitee oor Finansies het ‘n paar weke gelede die aangename voorreg gehad om Statistiek SA op sy eie werf in Pretoria te besoek en om die statistikus-generaal en sy span van aangesig tot aangesig te ontmoet. Ek dink nie dit sal onvanpas wees om te sê dat almal in die geselskap het weer eens onder die indruk gekom van die uiters belangrike werk wat deur hulle gedoen word nie. Hoewel hulle ‘n produk lewer wat daagliks deur feitlik alle aspekte van die Suid-Afrikaanse ekonomie gebruik word, is hulle nie die mense wat in die kalklig beweeg nie, maar in stilte agter die skerms werk. Daarom word dit wat hulle doen, soveel te meer waardeer en kan hulle nogeens daarvoor bedank word. Omdat hulle werk so onontbeerlik vir ‘n gladwerkende en suksesvolle ekonomie is, is dit soveel te meer belangrik dat die produk wat hulle voortbring, absoluut foutloos is en dat dié produk feitlik blindelings vertrou word en aangewend word in besluite wat groot finansiële implikasies kan hê.

Daarom is dit te betreur dat daar onlangs in die sakeblaaie van ‘n Sondagkoerant agterdog gewek moes word oor die korrektheid van die groeikoers, nadat SSA erken het dat hy, om dit sagkens te stel, verwarring in die berekening van die eerste drie kwartale van verlede jaar se ekonomiese groeikoers geskep het deur nie die seisoensaangesuiwerde jaarstatistiek aan te pas nie. Foute van hierdie aard het die potensiaal om die geloofwaardigheid van al Suid-Afrika se ekonomiese statistiek, by veral internasionale finansiële instellings en beleggers te verminder en bemoeilik sakelui se taak om ingeligte besluite te neem. Indien die bewering waar is, kan ons net hoop dat dié fout en andere wat soortgelyke en selfs erger probleme kan veroorsaak, nie toegelaat sal word om hulself te herhaal nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Dr E A CONROY: Mr Chairman, hon Deputy Minister of Finance and colleagues, the members of the Select Committee on Finance a few weeks ago had the privilege of visiting Statistics SA in its own offices in Pretoria and to meet the Statistician-General and his team face to face. I do not think it would be inappropriate to say that everyone in the delegation once again gained an impression of the extremely important work that is being done there by them. Although they deliver a product that is used on a daily basis by virtually every facet of the South African economy, they are not people who are in the limelight, but work quietly behind the screens. For that reason what they do is appreciated so much more and they can be thanked yet again for doing that. Because their work is so essential to a smoothly operating and successful economy it is so much more important that the product they produce is absolutely faultless and that this product could be trusted almost blindly and applied in decisions that could have major financial implications.

That is why it is lamentable that suspicions were recently raised in the business section of a Sunday newspaper about the accuracy of the growth rate, after Statistics SA had admitted that it, to put it mildly, created confusion in the calculation of the economic growth rate of the first three quarters of last year by not adjusting the seasonally adjusted annual statistics. Mistakes of this nature have the potential to reduce the credibility of all South Africa’s economic statistics, especially with international financial institutions and investors, and to hamper the task of businesspeople to make informed decisions. If the allegation is true, we can only hope that this error and others that could cause similar and even worse problems will not be allowed to be repeated.]

The Statistician-General has presented us with a strategic plan for the period 2002-03 to 2004-05 which demonstrates the dynamic drive and motivation of SSA’s top management. Statistics SA approaches its work through two broad strategic thrusts, namely the development of a national statistics system and equality through a people organisational philosophy.

The establishment of the National Statistics System is a response to Government’s growing need for integrated information and the obligations imposed by the Statistics Act, with the purpose being to enhance the capacity of formulating and evaluating policy decisisons.

In other words, through the NSS, Government aims to promote evidence-based policy-making, monitoring and evaluation in Government. This they aim to achieve by establishing quality standards for official statistics, co- ordinating the production and communication of official statistics and promoting statistical literacy. Its ``quality through people’’ philosophy simply means that it intends to train and empower its staff to ensure that South Africa does not suffer from a shortage of statistical professionals in the years to come.

The New NP wishes Statistics SA well in the realisation and execution pf its laudable goals and every success in its focus on improving the quality of South Africa’s official statistics. [Applause.] Mr T RALANE: Chairperson, Deputy Minister of Finance and hon members, three professors: a physist, a chemist and a statistician are called to put out a fire in the wastebasket of an office.

The physicist says: I know what to do. We must cool down the materials until their temperature is low and then the fire will go out.'' The chemist says:No, no. I know what to do. We must cut off the supply of oxygen so that the fire will go out due to a lack of one of the reactants. While the physicist and the chemist debate what course to take, they are both alarmed to see the statistician running around the room starting other fires. They both scream: What are you doing?'' to which the statistician replies: Trying to get an adequate sample size.’’

The Free State supports the Vote. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Thank you, Mr Ralane. You have given us more that seven minutes of your time, and from the shortest time you there was so much of an enthusiasm, as you can hear, from the House.

Mnr J L THERON: Mnr die Voorsitter … [Tussenwerpsels.] ‘n AGB LID: Jy moet mooi praat! [Gelag.]

Mnr J L THERON: Dankie, ek sal probeer!

Mnr die Voorsitter, agb Adjunkminister en kollegas, graag wil ek dit ten aanvang duidelik stel dat die DA die begroting van R272 154 000 vir Statistiek SA steun. Die werk wat Statistiek SA doen, is uiters belangrik vir Suid-Afrika en daarom voel die DA dat Statistiek SA eintlik ‘n groter toedeling uit die nasionale Begroting behoort te verkry. Uiters belangrike navorsing word deur Statistiek SA uitgevoer wat behoorlik befonds moet word.

Ek wil graag verder kyk na die noodsaaklikheid van Statistiek SA. Die statistiek van Statistiek SA onderlê al die ander staatsdepartemente se beleidsrigtings deur presies aan te dui hoe dienslewering en besteding behoort te vloei na waar die bevolking van Suid-Afrika dit die nodigste het.

Die ekonomiese of finansiële statistiek van Statistiek SA dui aan hoeveel fondse beskikbaar is en beskikbaar behoort te wees vir toedeling in die begroting. Die statistiek van Statistiek SA dui ook aan hoeveel fondse die onderskeie staatsdepartemente nodig het om al hulle werksaamhede te kan uitvoer. Hierdie twee stelle statistiek behoort dus basies aan te dui hoe die begrotingstoedelings tussen die staatsdepartemente gedoen behoort te word.

Die maatskaplike of bevolkingstatistiek van Statistiek SA dui op die bevolkingsgrootte en verspreiding, en hoe die grootte en verspreiding verander. Hierdie belangrike statistiek is dus ‘n rigtingaanwyser van waar dienste gelewer moet word en waarheen die meeste fondse behoort te vloei. Bogenoemde wys dus duidelik op die belang van tydige en akkurate statistiek van Statistiek SA om die beleidsrigtings van al die ander staatsdepartemente te ondersteun.

Daarom voel die DA ook dat Statistiek SA nog beter befonds moet word sodat tydige, akkurate statistiek gelewer kan word en die nodige navorsing gedoen kan word om die werk van Statistiek SA te ondersteun. Die misdaadstatistiek wat so lank teruggehou is, is ‘n goeie voorbeeld van hoe noodsaaklik tydige en akkurate statistiek vir ander staatsdepartemente is om hul beleidsrigtings te kan beplan en tot uitvoer te kan bring.

Ek wil ook graag kyk na die onafhanklikheid van Statistiek SA. Die DA wil die aspek graag beklemtoon dat Statistiek SA duidelik ‘n onafhanklike staatsdepartement behoort te wees waar niemand die objektiwiteit van die instansie bevraagteken nie. Die Adjunkminister het ook gewys op die integriteit van Statistiek SA. Een van die eksplisiet gestelde doelwitte van Statistiek SA is om die Regering van statistiese data en advies te voorsien.

Dit wil natuurlik nie sê Statistiek SA moet bevooroordeeld wees jeens die beleidsrigtings van die Regering nie. Uit die werk en optrede van Statistiek SA behoort dit duidelik te wees dat dit ‘n onafhanklike, objektiewe, akkurate en betroubare staatsdepartement is wat deur enige persoon in Suid-Afrika vertrou kan word. Daarom is dit dus uiters noodsaaklik dat Statistiek SA ten alle koste onafhanklik moet bly as dit die outoriteit op amptelike statistiek in Suid-Afrika wil bly.

Graag wil ek ook kyk na Sensus 2001. Dit is natuurlik een van die baie moeilike take wat Statistiek SA moet uitvoer, waar byvoorbeeld 80 000 sensusopnemers aangewend is om die data in te samel. Die doelwit is steeds dat Sensus 2001 afgehandel moet wees 18 maande nadat dit afgeskop het. Volgens Statistiek SA is dié groot projek nog op datum en behoort die sensus afgehandel te wees … (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr J L THERON: Mr Chairman … [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: You must speak well! [Laughter.]

Mr J L THERON: Thank you, I shall try!

Mr Chairman, hon Deputy Minister and colleagues, I would at the outset like to put it succinctly that the DA supports the budget of R272 154 000 for Statistics SA. The work done by Statistics SA is extremely important to South Africa and that is why the DA feels that Statistics SA should in fact receive a larger allocation from the national Budget. Extremely important research is performed by Statistics SA that should be adequately financed.

I should furthermore like to look at the necessity of Statistics SA. The statistics of Statistics SA serves as foundation for the policies of all the other government departments by indicating exactly how service-delivery and expenditure ought to flow to where the population of South Africa has the greatest needs.

The economic or financial statistics of Statistics SA indicate which funds are available and should be available for allocation in the budget. The statistics of Statistics SA also indicate the funds required by the various government departments to perform all their activities. These two sets of activities should therefore basically indicate how the budgetary allocations should be divided among the government departments.

The social or population statistics of Statistics SA indicate the size of the population and its distribution, and how the size and distribution changes. These important statistics are therefore a direction indicator of where services must be delivered and whence the most funds should flow. The aforementioned clearly indicate the importance of timeous and accurate statistics by Statistics SA to support the policies of all the other government departments. That is why the DA also feels that Statistics SA should be even better financed so that timeous, accurate statistics could be made available and the necessary research could be done to support the work of Statistics SA. The crime statistics that were withheld for so long is a good example of how essential timeous and accurate statistics are to other government departments in order that they can plan and implement their policies.

I would also like to look at the independence of Statistics SA. The DA wishes to emhasise the aspect that Statistics SA clearly should be an independent government department, in which no one questions the objectivity of the institution. The Deputy Minister also pointed out the integrity of Statistics SA. One of the explicitly mentioned objectives of Statistics SA is to furnish the Government with statistical data and advice.

This, of course, does not mean to say that Statistics SA should be biased towards the policies of the Government. From the work and conduct of Statistics SA it should be clear that it is an independent, objective, accurate and reliable government department that could be trusted by any person in South Africa. It is therefore most essential that Statistics SA should at all costs remain independent if it wishes to remain the authority on official statistics in South Africa.

I would like to look at Census 2001. This was one of the very difficult tasks that Statistics SA had to perform, of course, in which, for example, 80 000 census recorders were used to collect data. The objective is still that Census 2001 should be completed 18 months after it had started. According to Statistics SA this major project is still on track and the census should be completed …]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Sorry, hon member, would you please take your seat.

Mr V V Z WINDVOEL: Chairperson, would the member take a question?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Can you take a question, Mr Theron?

Mnr J L THERON: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek het ongelukkig nie tyd om na vrae te luister nie en daarom wil ek graag my toespraak afhandel. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Volgens Statistiek SA is dié groot projek nog op datum en behoort die sensus teen Oktober 2003 afgehandel te wees. Die publikasie Census in Brief behoort teen April 2003 beskikbaar te wees en dus sal die meeste van hierdie kardinale statistiek teen April volgende jaar gebruik kan word.

Die DA wil Statistiek SA daarmee gelukwens dat hierdie omvattende en moeilike taak tot dusver baie bekwaam gehanteer is en volgens skedule afgehandel word. Ons sien uit na die vrystelling van hierdie belangrike inligting om te sien of die politieke uitbreidingsprogram van die DA nog steeds so korrek is en goed op pad is soos in die verlede.

Ek wil ook graag praat oor die personeel van Statistiek SA. Uit die ontleding van die begroting is dit duidelik dat die bestuur en personeel 73,2% van die besteding van Statistiek SA oor die medium termyn uitmaak. Dit is goed om te sien dat Statistiek SA ook baie belê in die opleiding van sy personeel. Die Minister het ook daarna verwys. Personeel het ‘n gemiddelde van 4,9 dae opleiding per werknemer ontvang en ‘n gemiddelde bedrag van R1 050 per personeellid is aan opleiding bestee.

Die DA steun hierdie positiewe aspek en vra dat nog meer in die personeel van Statistiek SA belê word om te verseker dat goeie statistiek van die departement af kom. Dit is baie opbouend om die Agenda vir Verandering van Statistiek SA te lees. Reeds op 20 en 21 November 2000 het die bestuur op hulle lekgotla besluit om die personeel van Statistiek SA eerste te stel. Die Agenda van Verandering wil verseker dat die bemagtiging en ontwikkeling van personeel sal meehelp om gehalte statistiekprodukte te lewer wat die verwagtings van gebruikers en belangrike rolspelers sal oortref.

Ten slotte is dit uit bogenoemde duidelik dat daar baie goeie werk uit Statistiek SA voortgebring word. Die DA glo dat Statistiek SA sal voortbou op hierdie goeie werk en steeds die vertroue van die meeste gebruikers van statistiek sal behou. Die DA steun dus die begroting van Statistiek SA en wens die bestuur en personeel sterkte toe met die uiters belangrike werk wat gedoen word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr J L THERON: Mr Chairman, unfortunately I do not have the time to listen to questions and so I would prefer to finish my speech. [Interjections.]

According to Statistics SA this major project is still on track and the census should be completed by October 2003. The publication Census in Brief should be available by April 2003 and therefore most of these cardinal statistics should be available by April the following year.

The DA wants to congratulate Statistics SA that it has handled this comprehensive and difficult task extremely competently up to now and that it is being completed on schedule. We are looking forward to the release of this important information to see whether the political expansion programme of the DA is still as correct and well on its way as in the past.

I would also like to talk about the staff of Statistics SA. From the analysis of the budget it is clear that the management and staff in the medium term comprise 73,2% of the expenditure of Statistics SA. It is good to see that Statistics SA also invests in training its staff. The Minister also made reference to this. Staff received an average of 4,9 days’ training per employee and an average amount of R1 050 per member of staff was spent on training.

The DA supports this positive aspect and asks that even more should be invested in the staff of Statistics SA to ensure that sound statistics come from the department. It is very heartening to read the Agenda for Change of Statistics SA. As long ago as 20 and 21 November the management had already decided at their “lekgotla” to put the staff of Statistics SA first. The Agenda for Change wants to ensure that empowerment and development of staff would contribute to rendering the quality of statistical products that exceed expectations of consumers and important role-players.

In conclusion, it is clear from the aforementioned that much good work is produced by Statistics SA. The DA believes that Statistics SA will continue to build on this good work and still retain the confidence of most of the users of statistics.

The DA therefore supports the budget of Statistics SA and wishes the management and staff every success with the extremely important work that is done there.]

Mr Z S KOLWENI: Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, my colleagues, allow me to also echo some words in this debate. When the Minister was making his opening statement, he meant and I accepted it when he said the objective of this department is to produce and analyse high-quality social statistics.

Social statistics are connected through household surveys, a master plan of which was introduced in the year 2000 to improve the quality of data collection. Statistics will generate additional capacity to deal with statistical analysis required for poverty reduction schemes and HIV/Aids.

The new business register will provide the sampling frame for all economic services. The geographical coding of business units on the register will facilitate the presentation of economic data on maps at various geographic levels.

In September 2000, the labour force survey became our official employment indicator. The data from the survey was released for use by independent researchers. The first report on time use statistics, describing the manner in which South Africans spend their time on productive and nonproductive activities, was released in August 2001. During their briefing to both the finance committees in Parliament, Statistics SA gave a short video presentation illustrating their contribution to the upliftment of the disabled, called the Disability Peer Partnership Project.

The project looks at how to use people with disabilities in the census, how to approach households where there might be a disabled person, and ultimately how to successfully employ disabled people. Training of disabled people is funded through the National Skills Development Fund.

Currently, there are 80 disabled persons working at the Statistics SA head office. The problem is that the employment is merely short-term employment. An encouraging sign is that many of them will be ready for interviews for other employment opportunities at the end of that term.

As a member of the Select Committee on Finance, I am keen to see the impact of Census 2001 on the division of revenue. The current provincial equitable share formula is information intensive with regard to changes in provincial demographics. It is likely to produce consequential changes to the horizontal provincial equitable share formula. I await the result of Census 2001 with enthusiasm. The ANC supports Budget Vote 13 on Statistics South Africa. [Applause.] The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FINANCE: Chairperson, the member is right. I think that there is general support for the Budget Vote of Statistics SA. I must say at the outset that we really owe that to the leadership and management of Statistics South Africa.

In saying that, I do want to point out that we must never forget that the work that they do is very much skills intensive, both in terms of the skills that one needs in the organisation and the skills that are required as well of the leadership and the management of the department. I think that it is also very management intensive in the sense that there is a lot of detailed work that needs to be done, a lot of data and a lot of processes that need to be managed. I think we must pay tribute to the leadership and the management of Statistics SA for the good work that they are doing.

Some members, both in the hearings and in the committee, had raised the issue of funding for Statistics SA. Without particularly responding to those issues, I want simply to say that these are issues that will be resolved. But we must also understand that this is an organisation that has been undergoing changes. I think that over time there will be a greater appreciation of what the organisation can do. But there will also be greater clarity regarding needs to be done and which direction to go. I am really saying that those issues will be resolved. As I have pointed out in the hearings of the committee, the issue of statistics, especially economic statistics, has been given priority by the Cabinet and we as National Treasury will relate to it in that way.

The investment in skills that is taking place in the organisation is indeed intensive. As we have pointed out, we do have a problem with the production of those skills in South Africa. I think that some of the measures that have been taken by the organisation have been very creative but also very commendable. I think part of the African Renaissance and the philosophy that lies behind the New Partnership for Africa’s Development, is that we need to tap into our own resources. We need to be able to use our own institutions and people as we seek to develop this continent. The fact that we have been able to tap into the capacities that exist within African institutions, universities and so on is a very commendable step on the part of Statistics SA, with reference to Makerere and the institute in Tanzania. Finally, regarding the point that the member raised, that he would be interested to see what the impact of Census 2001 will be on the division of revenue and the formula that we utilise to allocate resources to the different provinces, indeed I think all of us will be interested to see what the impact of that will be, because we must understand that there are patterns that take place on a very slow but gradual basis, for example with regard to migration. We do not know what picture those patterns, over a longer time, will give us.

I think all of us will be looking forward to seeing what the impact of that census will be. Generally I would like to thank all the members for the interest that they have shown and the support that they have given to the Budget Vote of Statistics SA. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! There is an announcement here that the hon the Minister of Transport, Mr Omar, invites all members here to the cocktail party in the Old Assembly.

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 18:30. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                         MONDAY, 20 MAY 2002

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (1)    The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs submitted the
     Wetsontwerp op die Land- en Landbou-ontwikkelingsbank [W 12 -
     2002] (National Assembly - sec 75) to the Speaker and the
     Chairperson on 17 May 2002. This is the official translation of
     the Land and Agricultural Development Bank Bill [B 12 - 2002]
     (National Assembly - sec 75), which was introduced in the National
     Assembly by the Minister on 15 March 2002.

National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 (1)    Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:


     Bill passed by National Assembly on 17 May 2002 and transmitted
     for concurrence:


     (a)     Immigration Bill [B 79B - 2001] (National Assembly - sec
          75).


     The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Social
     Services of the National Council of Provinces.

TABLINGS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry: Annual Report and Financial Statements of the Lepelle Northern Water Board for 2000-2001.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, dated 13 May 2002:

   The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having considered the application by the National Agricultural Marketing Council for the implementation of statutory measures on potatoes, reports, in terms of section 15 of the Marketing of Agricultural Products Act, 1996, that it has approved the recommendations of the Council.

   The Committee, however, notes the grave mismanagement that has occurred in this sector, and hence will pursue such matters and make the necessary recommendations to the Minister in this regard.

                     TUESDAY, 21 MAY 2002
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Council of Provinces:

1. The Chairperson:

 (1)    Mrs C Nkuna has been elected as chairperson of the Select
     Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises with effect from 21 May
     2002.


 (2)    Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces:


     Bill passed by National Assembly on 21 May 2002 and transmitted
     for concurrence:


     (a)     Land and Agricultural Development Bank Bill [B 12B - 2002]
          (National Assembly - sec 75).


     The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Land and
     Environmental Affairs of the National Council of Provinces. TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Finance:

 (a)    Annual Report of the South African Reserve Bank - Bank
     Supervision Department for 2001 [RP 10-2002].


 (b)    Government Notice No 483 published in Government Gazette No
     23330 dated 15 April 2002, Transfers to Local Government, in terms
     of the Division of Revenue Act, 2002 (Act No 5 of 2002).

1. The Minister of Transport:

 Annual Report and Financial Statements of the South African Commuter
 Corporation Limited for 1999-2000, including the Report of the Auditor-
 General on the Financial Statements for 1999-2000.

1. The Minister of Sport and Recreation:

 Annual Report and Financial Statements of the South African Sport
 Commission for 2000-2001, including the Report of the Auditor-General
 on the Financial Statements for 2000-2001.