TUESDAY, 18 FEBRUARY 2003 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 09:36.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                         PRESIDENT'S ADDRESS

           (Resumption of Debate on Subject for Discussion

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: That’s a nice dress!

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you. That’s why I was missing you, Koos!

In his state of the nation address, the President said: In the implementation of our programmes we need to pay particular attention to culture, music and the arts as manifestations of our self- image as a nation … As a contribution to building the self-image that attaches to a proud nation, we shall continue this year with the project to build the first phase of the Freedom Park Monument.

In his budget speech in May 2002 Minister Ngubane, in talking about the Freedom Park project, had this to say:

Freedom Park will be a monument to our collective struggle for dignity and human rights. These structures will celebrate the rich tapestry of our lives from the earliest times as the cradle of humankind, through the stone and iron ages and the agrarian era, to the ages of conflict and colonisation, the struggle for democracy, and the present …

I will come back to the Freedom Park.

Let me first start my speech by stating the obvious. Culture is to the soul and psyche of a human being as important as the air we breathe in is to the survival of our physical beings. Culture, our values, traditions, customs, the expression of our sensibilities born of our environment and heritage through art forms like music, drama, creative writing, film, arts and crafts etc, all these put together are an essential part of the identity of any group of people and the individuals within these groups. The self- images we carry through our lives are informed by our cultural heritage and the status accorded our cultures in the everyday business of our families, communities, nations and even the international forums.

Recognition of this is attested to by the existence of bodies, activities and debates to promote human dialogue on these matters. After all, wars have been known to take many lives over issues like language, an important part of culture. One such forum is the International Network for Cultural Policy, one of whose meetings was hosted by South Africa here in Cape Town from 13 to 16 October 2002. In the face of both the opportunities and challenges of a globalising world, nations have to find answers to matters such as the overwhelming or even drowning of domestic cultural products by foreign products from the developed nations, especially from America. At this forum, there seemed to be agreement that there is a need for an international instrument on cultural diversity to preserve and promote all cultures for the continued enrichment of the human experience. Such an instrument, we hope, would intervene positively for previously marginalised cultures in a world that continues to experience what President Mbeki calls ``global apartheid’’.

At the opening of the fifth annual INCP meeting of Ministers of Culture, Minister Ngubane played the music of one of the most talented but not adequately recognised musicians of our country. Her name is Latozi Mphahlele, popularly known as Madosini. She plays uhadi, umrhube and isitolotolo in a manner that words cannot describe, only the endless whisper of the soul will affirm. I had the occasion to search for her CD at the end of last year. It was the most difficult and frustrating experience, as some of the music shops in Cape Town and Johannesburg knew about her but did not have her music as she is not regarded as popular. For them, what is important is to sell and make money, not to promote the authentic music of a rural woman who is hardly known by the so-called modern world.

This is why it is important that we put these matters up for conscious deliberation as we are the people charged with the responsibility to build this South African nation. If we are to evolve a common self-image that attaches to a proud nation, as the President asked us to do, we must pay special attention to a number of elements and issues that are our legacy and cry out for attention.

Deliberate steps have to be taken by the state to sensitively channel resources and efforts towards the creation of an atmosphere and environment in which, in the sphere of culture, there can be a healing of old wounds and the flourishing of talent among all communities of this country, especially in the ranks of our youth who will inherit the future.

This approach calls on us to be bold and to acknowledge that it will liberate both the formerly oppressed and the former oppressor. It is a win- win situation from which our society can only emerge stronger. By this, I must not be understood to be advocating a rushed melting-pot-of-cultures approach. I am talking about the need to liberate ourselves collectively from the notion that there are inferior cultures and superior cultures. This kind of approach is what leads to prejudices, discrimination, backward ethnicity, racism and xenophobia. We will remember that we hosted the whole world in a major effort to rid humanity of these persisting ills among us.

Harmony among human beings can be enhanced by each person feeling that their identity has acceptance, respect and space for expression within the reasonable possibilities and boundaries of co-existence with other fellow humans who might come from a different cultural background. A mature give- and-take attitude is necessary from all sides. For instance, if the hon Ms Taljaard were to be married to my son … [Laughter] [Applause] … as I hope she might consider doing, I would expect that when I visit them - Mr and Mrs Mbete - I would sometimes be treated to mngqusho [samp and beans] and the music of Madosini; other times to her type of music and cuisine. [Laughter.]

At the state level, of course, bearing in mind imbalances we inherited from the past, we must allocate the necessary resources to level the fields where cultural expression must flourish in our democracy. We can now say we are fortunate that we had the presence of mind to create in our Constitution the Commission for the Promotion and Protection of the Rights of Cultural, Religious and Linguistic Communities. We passed the necessary law last year, as hon members will remember, and, in December, the President determined that there will be 17 commission members. It is proposed by the Department of Provincial and Local Government that the commission be established from July this year, and that the first national consultative conference be convened in 2004.

This is an important institution to help us manage and process a range of challenges thrown up in our communities, bound by the commitment to move forward always in the areas of culture, religion and language. We as members of Parliament have the duty to explain these matters and participate in the local debates that translate legal measures like these and policy into tools to improve daily lives, and provide answers to any anxieties and fears that might exist among the citizens.

As a country, we must commend ourselves for the strides made by Government in terms of the Language Policy Framework, especially in relation to education and the Public Service among others. The need for sensitivity in matters of language cannot be overemphasised. In the debate in March 2002 on the commission mentioned earlier, the hon Grobbler captured the situation well when he said: Afrikaans has a constitutional right as does Zulu, Xhosa or English … My duty as an Afrikaans speaker is to behave in such a way towards those who speak other languages that I earn respect and in doing so nurture an attitude which aims to help build a proud South African nation with the diversity of our people in this country.

This quotation captures the spirit provided for in section 6 of the Constitution.

It is therefore extremely disappointing to come across incidents like what happened in The Desmond Dube Show two weeks ago. This is the first opportunity, as this Parliament, that we are able to comment on this unfortunate matter.

Kuthiwa uDesmond Dube, kuloluya hlelo lwakhe lwamahlaya, wakhuluma ngabantu abakhuluma isiTsonga njengabantu abangaphansi kwezimfene. Wathi yena kungangcono abe yimfene kunokuthi abe ngumuntu okhuluma isiTsonga.

Sithi-ke, siyileli Phalamende, ingqondo nokucabanga okunjalo akuvumelekile kuleli zwe lakithi, ikakhulu izwe esililwele ngale ndlela esililwele ngayo, ngendlela futhi uMthethosisekelo wethu othi singaze siphinde siphindele kuleliya lizwe esiqhamuka kulona. Kufuneka njalo sakhe iNingizimu Afrika ehloniphayo lapho abantu behloniphana khona ngezilimi ngezilimi abazikhulumayo ezehlukene. (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[It is said that Desmond Dube, in his comic programme, referred to the Tsonga-speaking people as people who are even inferior to baboons. He said that he would rather be a baboon than a Tsonga-speaking person.

We as Parliament say that such an idea and thinking should not be prevalent in this country of ours, especially in a country that we have fought for so hard and a country where our Constitution says we should not return to the old South Africa, the past which we come from. We should always build a respectful South Africa, where people respect one another regardless of the languages they speak.]

It is not enough that we hear that Desmond Dube apologised in print, on radio and on TV. That is inadequate. The SABC, as a national broadcaster, ought to take, and come out very clearly on, a position that condemns this kind of behaviour from one of its employees. [Applause.] I must report to this House that we, in my office, have tried without success to find out from the SABC what their position is on such behaviour by an employee, because to say that he has apologised is really to duck the issue. We are busy here very delicately putting together a nation. If somebody employed by a national broadcaster behaves like this, it is our responsibility to take a position and say that this shall not be tolerated, and to say how we are going to deal with such behaviour if anybody else does this, in the future. Hopefully, we are still going to hear what the position of the SABC is on such behaviour.

I must take this opportunity to point out that Parliament is also making progress towards adopting a language policy before the end of this year, which is the year before our next election. I remind all political parties in the House that the deadline for their submissions on this was yesterday. I hope that all parties have submitted their submissions. If not, we must point out that the latest we will accept submissions is this week, so that this Parliament can finally take a position and, therefore, the next Parliament can start its work after the elections on a better basis than what we inherited.

I would now like to return to the issue of the Freedom Park Monument, and what it stands for. Hon members will remember that I quoted the hon the Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology on the occasion of his budget speech in 2002 when he explained to us how we should understand the Freedom Park project. The importance of this project is such that it is being planned that the tenth anniversary of our democracy is going to be celebrated at the structures of the Freedom Park, which are under construction this year.

We would like to urge members of Parliament to realise that they and we all have a duty to popularise the Freedom Park project, and to debate the history that we come from, which is being celebrated by that project, and to discover more and more from our communities what we stand for, and the cultural wealth that is among our people.

I would like, in ending, to quote from the speech of the President when he launched the Freedom Park project on 16 June 2002:

The Freedom Park seeks to recapture, as far as possible, the legends and the rich traditions, both written and unwritten, so that we, as Africans, begin to be visible. We want to do this so that when the invisible African in Ben Okri’s book looks for himself in his people, he can discover that, in fact, he does exist.

Through projects such as Freedom Park, we are able to ensure that other people who pretended that they don’t see the African people, or even if they see them they accorded an inferior status to us, we will begin to remove cobweb after cobweb of their prejudices such that they begin not only to see and recognise our existence, but that they themselves appreciate the fact that they are descendants of human ancestors who emerged and evolved from a common origin, the African continent.

The Freedom Park will also relate the history of our recent past. This includes the manner in which indigenous people lost their land, livestock and freedom under both Dutch and British colonialism. We will record the heroic resistance of the native people of South Africa.

Further, we will ensure that we present the true story that has characterised the struggle of our people for freedom, especially in the 20th century. We will celebrate Bhambatha, the struggles around land, workers’ struggles and different stages of union organisation, the various phases of mass mobilisation - peaceful petitions, deputations, peaceful protests, passive resistance, defiance campaigns to armed resistance - all these will be important parts of Freedom Park.

The Freedom Park will recognise the significant role played by different sectors of our society. We have already referred to the workers. In addition, we will celebrate the important contributions made by women, youth, rural people and others.

Together, through Freedom Park, we will acknowledge the central role played by the South Africans from different parties to ensure that our country becomes free and democratic. This includes during the course of the struggle as well as during the negotiations for the new political order.

Freedom Park should therefore make us walk the entire South African history. When we have done this, we should then appreciate our country, its people, their diversity and their determination to build a united nation with a common vision, aspirations and goals.

The Freedom Park must help us to heal the divisions of the past, and work for reconciliation. As we all agree, real healing and genuine reconciliation will only come about when we have told the entire story of why we became antagonists in the first place. It is on this basis that we should not, in trying to deal with the divisions of the past, sweep some matters under the carpet.

[Applause.]

Dr J T DELPORT: Madam Speaker, after having listened to the previous speaker I am looking at her with new eyes, politically speaking, of course.

Gister het die agb dr Geldenhuys in ‘n grap verwys daarna dat ‘n mens nie op jou sterfbed met die duiwel vyande maak nie. Dit is klaarblyklik dat sy leier, mnr Van Schalkwyk, hierdie woorde op sy politieke sterfbed letterlik opgeneem het.

Marthinus van Schalkwyk en sy wapendraer die agb Renier Schoeman het van eerbare politici soos dr Boy Geldenhuys en andere politieke agterryers gemaak. [Tussenwerpsels.] Daarmee het hy die naam Nuwe NP finaal van die politieke telbord verwyder. Dit is oor! [Tussenwerpsels.] Eerder as om agterryers van die ANC te wees moet Nuwe NP-lede dan liewer direk die ANC steun. Daar is diegene wat dit wel sal doen op grond van die breë, redelike ekonomiese beleid van die Regering. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Sulke persone moet egter dan weet, soos daardie agb lid, dat hulle dan ook hulle seën uitspreek, onder meer, oor die onwilligheid van die ANC om korrupsie uit te roei, die patetiese toestand van die landsadministrasie, die feit dat oorlog in Irak vir die agb President belangriker is as die oorlog teen moordenaars, rowers en verkragters, en teen HIV/vigs, en dat hulle hul seën uitspreek oor die afskaffing van die kommando’s om die platteland totaal te ontwapen.

Waar is dan ‘n tuiste vir die voormalige Nuwe NP-ondersteuners, waarvan die grootste gros Afrikaans is? Oor die algemeen is daar ‘n matelose gevoel van marginalisering by meestal wit landsburgers, en baie bruin kiesers deel hierdie gevoel. Desperaat word gesoek na ‘n nuwe visie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit het ‘n kreet laat opgaan dat Afrikaners politiek moet verenig, en daar is baie partye, en hulle word elke dag meer, wat hierdie vlag dra. Hulle wil verenig teen die bedreiging van Afrikaanse taal- kultuur- en onderwysbelange. Hulle wil veg vir Afrikaners.

Natuurlik is daar rede vir diepe ontsteltenis. Die belangrikste rede is naamlik dat die ANC-regering gewoon nie die erkenning van die diversiteit van ons mense in Suid-Afrika tot volle ontplooiing laat kom nie. Kortom, die ANC misken sekere beginsels wat in die Grondwet vervat is. Dit is so, maar die pad is nie Afrikaner-mobilisasie nie. Dit is die mobilisasie van alle kiesers wat die beginsels deel waarop ‘n gelukkige toekoms gebou kan word.

Daarom nooi die DA u, ook diegene wat nou in die Nuwe NP sit, om te kom en ‘n rol in die DA te speel. Kom gee stukrag aan die koers van die DA, want die DA gaan op sy beurt ‘n rigtinggewende rol speel in ‘n nuwe, breër koalisie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Daardie breër koalisie gaan die nuwe regering van Suid-Afrika word. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Laat ek reguit praat met almal wat hulle soos ek ‘n Afrikaner noem: Afrikaners is nie ‘n Godverkore volk wat ter wille van homself moet bestaan nie. Afrikaners bestaan om bo eiebelang uit te styg om rigting en stukrag aan die gang van die toekoms in hierdie land te gee saam met so baie andere, en om stukrag te gee aan ‘n politieke beweging wat Suid-Afrika werklik sal regeer ten beswil van al die mense; ‘n regering met ‘n beter visie en ‘n beter plan.

Ons het ‘n regering nodig in Suid-Afrika wat eens en vir altyd misdaad genadeloos sal uitroei; wat vir die armes sal omgee, nie alleen met lippediens nie; wat moedertaalonderwys - en ek herhaal, moedertaalonderwys

• sal aanbied vir dié wat dit vra en wat ons opvoedkundige inrigtings en navorsingseenhede weer sentrums van uitnemendheid sal maak; wat die geldmors, korrupsie en wanadministrasie wat hoogty vier, sal stopsit; wat sport sal wegvat van sekere mense en dit teruggee aan die sportlui self; wat ons talentvolle jeug wat in moedeloosheid en radeloosheid elders ‘n heenkome gaan soek, sal terugbring na hulle vaderland. [Tussenwerpsels.]

So ‘n regering is binne bereik van ‘n koalisie tussen die DA en die IVP en andere, en ek loof by hierdie geleentheid die leiding wat kom van die leier van die IVP, die agb Minister Buthelezi. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is ons visie en strewe in die DA. Dit is die pad wat ons gaan loop, of die agb lede aan daardie kant van die Raad daarvan hou of nie. Dit is wat die kiesers van Suid-Afrika gaan vra en dit is wat die kiesers uiteindelik kan kry. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Daarom nooi ons u almal: kom word deel van hierdie visie en hierdie beter plan vir Suid-Afrika. [Tussenwerpsels.] Aan almal wat vra waar hulle visie is, waar hul pad is en wat die toekoms inhou, het ek net ‘n enkele boodskap: daar ís ‘n pad. [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is ‘n moeilike pad, dit is ‘n harde pad, maar daar is ‘n pad vir elkeen in hierdie land, ook vir die Afrikaner. [Tussenwerpsels.] Wanneer ons aanstons gaan begin praat oor verkiesings, dan is die boodskap wat ek graag wil uitstuur in die woorde van Watermeyer, wat gesê het:

Hand, hand wat kruisie maak, Is hand wat aan die toekoms raak.

Laat ons ons toekoms met ons hand aanraak. Dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Yesterday the hon Dr Geldenhuys jokingly referred to the fact that one does not make an enemy of the devil on one’s deathbed. It is apparent that his leader, Mr Van Schalkwyk, took these words literally on his political deathbed.

Marthinus van Schalkwyk and his armour-bearer, the hon Renier Schoeman, have made political hangers-on of honourable politicians such as Dr Boy Geldenhuys and others. [Interjections.] With that he has finally removed the name of the New NP from the political scoreboard. That is over! [Interjections.] Rather than being ANC hangers-on, the New NP members should rather support the ANC directly. There are those who will do this on the basis of the broader, rational economic policy of the Government. [Interjections.]

Such persons, however, should also know, such as that hon member, that they are then also expressing their blessing, inter alia, about the unwillingness of the ANC to root out corruption, the pathetic state of the public administration, the fact that the war in Iraq is more important to the hon President than the war against murderers, robbers and rapists, and against HIV/Aids, and that they are expressing their blessing about the abolition of the commandos to totally disarm the rural areas.

Where, then, is a home for the former New NP supporters, of which the greater majority is Afrikaans? In general there is an unmeasured feeling of marginalisation by mainly white citizens, and many coloured voters share this feeling. There is a desperate search for a new vision. [Interjections.] This has culminated in a slogan that Afrikaners should unite politically, and there are many parties, and they are getting more by the day, who are carrying this flag. They want to unite against the threat to the interests of the Afrikaans language, culture and education. They want to fight for Afrikaners.

There is, of course, reason for this deep dismay. The most important reason is namely that the ANC Government usually does not allow the acknowledgement of the diversity of our people in South Africa to come to its full development. In short, the ANC disregards certain principles which are contained in the Constitution. This is so, but the road is not Afrikaner mobilisation. It is the mobilisation of all voters who share the principles on which a happy future can be built. For this reason the DA invites you, as well as those who are now sitting in the New NP, to come and play a role in the DA. Come and give momentum to the direction of the DA, because the DA in its turn is going to play a direction-giving role in the new, broader coalition. [Interjections.] That broader coalition is going to become the new Government of South Africa. [Interjections.]

Let me be frank with all of those who, like myself, call themselves Afrikaners: Afrikaners are not a chosen people who have to exist for themselves only. Afrikaners exist to rise above their own interests in order to give direction and momentum to the course of the future in this country with so many others, and to give momentum to a political movement which is going to govern South Africa in the best interests of all its people; a Government with a better vision and a better plan.

We need a government in South Africa that will stamp out crime mercilessly once and for all; that will care for the poor, not only with lip service; that will present mother-tongue education - and I repeat, mother-tongue education - for those who ask for it, and that will once again make our educational institutions and research facilities centres of excellence; that will put a stop to the squandering of money, corruption and maladministration which is reigning supreme; that will take away sport from certain people and give it back to the sportspeople themselves; that will bring back to their motherland our talented youth who have gone elsewhere to look for a livelihood in desperation and despondency. [Interjections.]

Such a government is within the reach of the coalition between the DA and the IFP and others, and I take this opportunity to praise the leadership coming from the leader of the IFP, the hon Minister Buthelezi. [Interjections.] This is our vision and aim in the DA. This is the road we are going to take, whether the hon members on that side of the House like it or not. This is what the voters of South Africa are going to ask for and what they are going to get eventually. [Interjections.]

For this reason we are inviting you all: come and be part of this vision and a better plan for South Africa. [Interjections.] To all those who are asking where is our vision, where is our road and what does the future hold, I have only one message: there is a road. [Interjections.] It is a difficult road, it is a tough road, but there is a road for everyone in this country, including the Afrikaner. [Interjections.] When we are going to begin to talk about elections shortly, the message I would like to send out is in the words of Watermeyer, who said:

Hand, hand wat kruisie maak, Is hand wat aan die toekoms raak.

Let us touch our future with our hand. Thank you. [Applause.]]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, the basic theme of the President’s state of the nation address was the call to all South Africans to unite in the fight to roll back the frontiers of poverty.

I hope that as we seek to achieve this noble objective, we are also able to roll back the frontiers of ignorance, unsubstantiated statements and anti- South African politics that permeate the ranks of some of the opposition. [Interjections.]

The childish histrionics that we have been subjected to in the past few days call for a wind of change to blow away historic relics that falsely continue to argue that nothing in South Africa has changed and that, for many people, life is actually worse. I believe they must be living in a ``Leonstaat’’, oblivious to what is actually happening in our country.

Mr President, you identified the tremendous challenges confronting us and, once again, critically assessed our achievements and identified our problems. The facts, statistics and future political, economic and social programmes you announced clearly indicate that we are a winning nation. This is widely acknowledged by many in the world. It is also acknowledged by millions of honest South Africans, black and white. Only our right-wing anti-South African ideologues - mainly on the DP benches - fail to acknowledge this truth. We urge you, Mr President, to stay on course and ignore them.

Mr President, you once again identified the dialectical link between our domestic policy objectives and our foreign policy objectives. We live in a globalised world, and our ability to consolidate our democracy and ensure that we become a prosperous nation, which improves the quality of life of all our people, is impacted on by many factors outside our own country.

Later today you will leave South Africa to attend the Franco-African summit in Paris, and then the Non-Aligned Movement summit in Kuala Lumpur. Both these important summits will be important occasions on which to seek support for Nepad and a peaceful world. We wish you a good and successful trip.

The cornerstone of our foreign policy will be to end conflicts peacefully, to achieve a new world order that is more equitable and people-centred, and to create conditions for sustainable development. This demands that we strengthen and not weaken multilateralism.

As you indicated, we seek to make the 21st century the African century. This, therefore, demands that this should be a century of African peace and of world peace. Mr President, you said that we have to ``choose sides in the contest between human hope and human despair, between war and peace … Without peace we will fail in the effort in which we are engaged, to transform ours into a country of hope, and revert to the past on which we have turned our backs, a past of misery and despair.’’

The logic of this argument should be understandable to any normal and sane person. However, true to tradition, the DP, many of whom pretend to be rocket scientists, have once again exposed their inability or refusal to understand such logic. More dangerously, they have once again tried to turn the debate into an anti-South African argument. [Interjections.]

I am concerned that they have dangerously argued that our seeking a peaceful solution to the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, in terms of the Security Council Resolution 1441, is anti-American. I begin to question what objectives the DP is pursuing by constantly spreading the false allegation that we are anti-American. They must answer this question. [Interjections.]

The hon member Gibson is reported to have said that our mission to Iraq was political tourism and cuddling up to Saddam's dictatorship'' and that, as with Zimbabwe, the Government will start out with the appearance of honest brokers before the mantle eventually slips away and they tell us that Iraq’s Ba’th Party is an ally like Zanu-PF’’.

The comments by the hon Leon were just as ridiculous and embarrassing as that of Gibson. He calls for change in everything we are doing. Let me tell him that we will not have sleepless nights, because millions of our people know that the changes he is calling for are changes that will take us back to the pre-1994 days, and they will reject this call with the contempt it deserves. [Applause.] One wonders why we continue to be subjected in this Parliament to such childish, infantile disorder. [Interjections.]

Mr President, we have consistently said that the objective of our interaction with the Iraqi government and many other governments in the world was to ensure that we prevent a war that will have disastrous consequences for world peace and stability and for the development of Africa.

An HON MEMBER: The war in … [Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: We called on the Iraqi government to accept and fully implement Security Council Resolution 1441. [Interjections.] Why don’t you keep quiet? You’re making a noise. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]

We urged the Iraqi government … [Interjections.] This infantile disorder never surprises me.

We urged the Iraqi government to co-operate fully with the UN inspectors, and we also urged them to respond satisfactorily to the concerns expressed by the inspectors in their reports to the Security Council on 8 December 2002.

Much reference internationally has been made to the South African model of disarmament as being the ideal model. During my last visit, we offered to share our experience in eradicating weapons of mass destruction in Iraq peacefully. The Iraqi government has accepted our offer, and a team of South African experts will leave shortly for Iraq. [Interjections.]

During my visit our delegation also met with the leaders of the UN inspectors, Dr Blix and ElBaradei, both of whom were highly appreciative of the South African efforts. [Interjections.] This view is shared by many in the world. If the prophets of distortion and stupidity on my left cared to read the latest report of the inspectors to the Security Council on 14 February 2003, and if they followed the debate in the Security Council, they would have to honestly admit that much progress …

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, would you please take your seat.

Prof B TUROK: Madam Speaker, may I respectfully ask you to ask the Leader of the Opposition not to interrupt the whole of the speech, because we can’t hear the speaker. There is a constant barrage from there. We cannot hear and also …

The SPEAKER: Hon member, please take your seat. I would like to ask … [Interjections.] Order! I would like to ask all members to please allow the speakers to be heard. We can understand one heckle, but this continuous one yesterday and today does not help the debate.

Please proceed, hon member.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: Madam Speaker, as I was saying, if they listened to the debate and listened to the inspectors, they would have to honestly admit that much progress has been made. There are, of course, still outstanding issues to be resolved. This is work in progress, and therefore the South African Government supports the call for the mandate of the inspectors to be extended so that they can successfully complete their work.

Since some of the opposition are driven by the philosophy of ``we have made up our minds, so don’t confuse us with the facts,’’ let me give this House some of the facts. Mr Blix, on 14 February, reported to the Security Council that, amongst other things, the inspectors have continued to build upon their capabilities. The inspectors have conducted more than 400 inspections, covering more than 300 sites. These inspections were performed without notice and access was almost always provided promptly.

On the issue of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction and related proscribed items and programmes, so far Unmovic has not found any such weapons, only a small number of empty chemical munitions. However, many proscribed weapons and items are still to be accounted for. Blix went on to say that significant outstanding issues of substance such as anthrax, nerve agent VX and long-range missiles would have to be resolved.

At a meeting in Baghdad on 8 and 9 February, when our delegation was also there, Blix said that the Iraq side had addressed some important outstanding disarmament issues and gave the inspectors a number of papers relating to anthrax and growth material, the nerve agent VX and missile production. The presentation of the papers, according to Mr Blix, could be indicative of a more active attitude, focusing on important open issues.

The inspectors were also given a list of 83 names of participants ``in the unilateral destruction in the chemical field, which took place in the summer of 1991’’.

The list'', Blix said, appears to be useful and pertains to co- operation on substance.’’

A commission which had been appointed in the wake of the inspectors’ finding 12 empty chemical weapon warheads has had its mandate expanded to look for any still existing proscribed items. A second commission has now been appointed with the task of searching all over Iraq for more documents relevant to the elimination of proscribed items and programmes. The Iraqi side confirmed the commitment to encourage the persons asked to accept private interviews whether in or out of Iraq.

He reported that a presidential decree had been issued containing prohibitions with regard to the importation and production of biological, chemical and nuclear weapons. He also reported that the Iraq government had agreed to the use of USA U-2 spy planes, French Mirage aircraft, German drones and a Russian Antonov aircraft to help the capacity of the inspectors.

On the same day, Mr ElBaradei reported that the IAEA had conducted a total of 177 inspections at 125 locations and that Iraq had continued to provide immediate access to all locations. He said, ``Iraq has expanded the list of relevant Iraqi personnel to over 300.’’ It supplied IAEA with documents related to questions and concerns that had been raised since 1998 which needed further clarification.

He went on to say:

The government of Iraq reiterated last week its commitment to comply with the Security Council obligations and to provide full and active co- operation with the inspecting organisations. The IAEA concluded, by December 1998, that it had neutralised Iraq’s past nuclear programme and that, therefore, there were no unresolved disarmament issues left.

The focus, since the resumption of the inspections in Iraq two and a half months ago, has been to verify whether Iraq revived its nuclear programme in the intervening years. He said:

We have to date found no evidence of ongoing prohibited nuclear or nuclear-related activities in Iraq. However, a number of issues are still under investigation and we are not yet in a position to reach a conclusion about them.

My hope is that the commitments made recently in Baghdad will continue to translate into concrete and sustained action.

Through our activities, Mr President, South Africa will continue to ensure that the Iraqi commitment will be translated into concrete and sustained action. The debate in the Security Council, which starts today, and the emergency summit of the EU indicate the complexity of the Iraqi challenge and demand informed and clear-headed analysis, not simplistic and bombastic outbursts. Only people with different hidden agendas can misrepresent our efforts and seek to discredit them.

The DP must answer some burning questions. Are the almost 10 million people who formed some of the largest marches in history throughout the world and who marched in support of tackling the issue of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction peacefully, reflecting genuine concerns and fears? What is the Opposition’s position on war and peace? Are they honest enough to discuss the consequences of a war? How can we, as South Africans, be accused of destroying multilateralism by supporting the full implementation of Security Council Resolution 1441?

As I said earlier, they must tell us and the nation: What is the real objective in spreading lies that the South African Government has an anti- American agenda and not an antiwar agenda? [Interjections.] Let me tell those members on my left that we will not be deterred by these dinosaurs of politics. We will continue to do our work. History will judge whether we were doing the correct work or not. [Applause.]

Mr President, over the last few days a South African delegation met with a top-level delegation of former Israeli intelligence and security personnel

• something that these people refuse to talk about. We shared our experiences regarding the South African negotiation process, peacemaking and transition to democracy. We also looked at the continuing challenges and the fears and aspirations of our people. The Israeli intelligence delegation gave their full account of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and ways of resolving it.

Mr President, your message of South Africa’s intensified efforts to have continuous engagements with all the parties to seek a peaceful solution to the conflict was highly appreciated.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: What about Zimbabwean … [Inaudible.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: We are convinced that the meeting, as part of the many initiatives under the Spier process led by you, will make an important contribution to peace and stability in Israel and Palestine.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: What about Southern Africa?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: On the African continent, we are making quite important progress in Burundi and the DRC. [Interjections.]

HON MEMBERS: What about Zimbabwe?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF FOREIGN AFFAIRS: I am coming to you, and I won’t elaborate, because these clowns are just wasting my time. [Laughter.]

We remain concerned about the situation in Côte d’Ivoire, Sudan and Somalia and will continue to support all the efforts to end these conflicts. On all these issues, we will ensure that Parliament and the portfolio committee are regularly briefed.

Mr President, once again, we have been subjected to hysterical concerns about our so-called failure to tackle the Zimbabwe issue. We remain convinced that the collapse of Zimbabwe will have serious implications for the whole region and especially South Africa. Why should we want this to happen? Our quiet diplomacy is criticised without any credible suggestions on what we should do more than what we are doing. Our critics, who are just noisy windbags, fail to explain what megaphone diplomacy has achieved. [Interjections.] They fail or refuse to acknowledge that since the political and economic crisis started we have been tirelessly engaged in efforts to help the Zimbabweans deal with their crisis. [Interjections.]

Any honest person not motivated by hidden agendas or irrational fears must acknowledge that we have consistently, bilaterally or through SADC, raised areas of concern and sought solutions. The Commonwealth mandated us to engage with the Zimbabweans to tackle some of these issues. As you have said on so many occasions, Mr President, there has been some progress and, inter alia, the Zimbabweans have agreed to look at some of their legislation regarding the media. They will also look at legislation that has been described as antidemocratic. The issue of thousands of Zimbabweans of Mozambican and Malawian origin is being tackled.

We initiated discussions between the MDC and Zanu PF. These, unfortunately, were stopped because the legality of the elections was challenged in court by the MDC. Zanu PF will not resume the talks until the court case is completed. However, we will continue with our objectives to get the negotiations going. The Zimbabwean government has declared that the land distribution programme is over and they admit that some mistakes were made. [Interjections.] They have assured us that discussions are taking place with Zimbabwean farmers who lost their farms. There are, of course, still some areas of concern that we are discussing and we hope that solutions will be found.

Let me, once again, categorically state that we reject any suggestion of regime change by force. Also, no Zimbabwean has called for sanctions, and so that is not an option. We must, dear members, accept the reality that Zimbabwe is not the 10th province of South Africa. Sadly, the DP, as it always does, is trying to whip up minority fears by suggesting that what is happening in Zimbabwe will happen in South Africa. [Interjections.] This is a very dangerous game and I urge them not to persist with this position.

In the interests of Zimbabwe and the region, let us constructively assist all Zimbabweans to jointly find a solution. The crude politicisation of the Cricket World Cup is unacceptable, deepens antagonisms and delays solutions. I hope that the DP will wake up. Delport said that he wants people to join his party to get onto a new road. The only road on which you can go with the DP is to hell. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]

Mr President, In your address you said, and I quote:

As we enter the last year of the first decade of freedom, we will heed the lessons of these first 10 years and build on what has been achieved, and with renewed courage we must, together, approach the second decade of freedom as one in which the tide of progress will sweep away the accumulated legacy of poverty and underdevelopment.

Unfortunately you did not mention the DP. You continued and said:

The tide has turned. The people’s contract for a better tomorrow is taking shape. I trust that all of us will identify with this historic process. Given the great possibility we have to move forward, we dare not falter.

I want to assure you, Mr President, that our foreign and domestic policies will be driven by this vision. We will succeed, despite the purveyors of doom and gloom sitting on the benches of the DP. I thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Madam Speaker, His Excellency the President and His Excellency the Deputy President, hon members, it was the Greek philosopher Plato who said: ``A nonexamined life is not worth living.’’ And so it is that we are gathered here as a collective leadership of this country to examine the life and output of our Government. We do so not to criticise destructively or to score cheap political points, but to engage in what is our very sacred duty as members of this House and as representatives of the people. That sacred duty is to honestly reflect on progress made thus far and to identify shortcomings in order to correct them.

The President outlined what is a huge undertaking by the Government, to improve the quality of life of all South Africans. This provides a good framework within which individuals, groupings, communities and private and public economic entities can pull together in the direction of progress. The Government has shown the way by initiating a number of programmes in this regard. What remains is for our people to also play their part.

The Government cannot do everything. It is, in fact, unrealistic to expect it to do so. It can only do that much. The greatest challenge that remains is for the people for whom the various products of Government policies and programmes are meant to come forward and take advantage of these initiatives. The Government must, in providing whatever service, do so in a manner that avoids dampening the spirit of enterprise and initiative among the people. There should always be room for self-help and self-reliance so that our people are able to take pride in what they themselves are capable of doing.

Quite clearly, the efforts of Government will only fully succeed in making things work if there is a healthy and reliable partnership between itself and the people it serves. That is why it is extremely important that an integrative nation-building process should continue to cultivate, highlight and inculcate values of patriotism and loyalty to the broader South African nation. To this end, it is extremely important that such patriotism and loyalty to our nation should be manifested and recognised on both sides of this House.

I come back to what I referred to earlier on, namely that when we speak here and raise critical questions, we do so not to ridicule or embarrass, but to highlight and applaud achievement and to decry and pour scorn on inefficiency, underachievement and utter failure.

When we meet here to reflect on the state of the nation address, we do so not only to weaken and destroy, but to improve and build. For we are all in this together, and we either have to swim or sink together. It is in this context that I would like to appeal to our colleagues and comrades on this side of the House to regard critical comments from the other side of the House as well intended. The trouble is that even though we are all Africans here, we follow procedures that are not of African origin in nature, such as being compelled at times to do what you would normally avoid doing, namely hanging our dirty linen in public. For example, the Western democratic method which we follow here actually encourages that members of the same family should, in the presence of strangers, point fingers at one another.

I now want to talk about one of the key announcements that the President made in the state of the nation address, namely that the Government will embark on an expanded public works programme in order to help alleviate the chronic problem of poverty and unemployment. We welcome this announcement as a step in the right direction because unless we find ways to temper the growing tide of unemployment, it will be difficult to overcome the problem of poverty.

So in the Department of Public Works we have begun to roll up our sleeves, to get on with the necessary preparatory work in order to get the expanded public works programme off the ground as soon as possible. This will entail identifying candidate projects in various Government departments that will need to be realigned and run along the now tried and tested principles of our Community-Based Public Works Programme.

The President has given us in the department this very serious responsibility and daunting task of co-ordinating this programme, not only among Government departments at the national sphere, but across all spheres of Government.

So what is critical to the success of the expanded public works programme is to understand the underlying principles underpinning it, that it seeks to utilise labour-intensive approaches where appropriate in the delivery and maintenance of infrastructure; restore and enhance the dignity of labour, and thus inculcate the work ethic; restore the dignity of the poor and the unemployed; destroy the culture of entitlement and waiting for handouts and replace it with the notion of self-help and self-reliance; and ensure that in the process of people being drafted into the envisaged public works programmes, skills will be gained which people can then utilise elsewhere.

As the programme unfolds it is expected that it will align current infrastructure programmes of Government and state-owned enterprises to maximise work opportunities for the poor and the unemployed. It will provide specific opportunities for women, youth and the disabled by targeting these vulnerable groups. It will also create useful public assets that will provide social improvements and facilitate participation by micro enterprises, especially emerging contractors.

We are mindful of the plight of the unemployed youth, some with tertiary qualifications. We need to find ways to overcome this problem. Perhaps it is time that work was finalised speedily on the national youth service so that this programme could also help tackle the problem of youth unemployment before it is too late. As we plan for the implementation of the expanded public works programme, we are challenged to plan for the involvement of our youth as well.

Finally, we want to thank our President for championing the cause of Africa, for it is by promoting the cause of Africa that the interests of South Africa as a whole will be advanced. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms T R MODISE: Madam Speaker, the President on Friday said that ``unlike the 20th, the 21st century should be a century of African peace’’. Now this century for African peace must begin with the creation of conditions of law and order and political and economic stability. It must also begin with the creation of a community of African security. Our understanding of security must change from the old dichotomy of war or peace to the concept of human security. And this means that there is less concentration on the procurement of arms and deployment of troops. There is more about strengthening the social and environmental fabric of societies and improving their governance. Our own thebula [comrade] Dr Rocky Williams says:

To avoid instability, a human security policy must take into account a complex web of social, economic, environmental and political factors.

I submit that any national security is meaningless if it does not encompass the preservation of liveable conditions in this world. This finds resonance in the objectives of the African Union, which are, in fact, in line with the provisions of the Constitution of this Republic and are echoed by the objectives of the UN Security Council. In fact, this is what Michael Renner, a human scientist, had to say in 1992:

A reasonable definition of security needs to encompass breathable air and potable water, safe from radioactive and toxic hazards, an intact climatic system, and protection against the loss of topsoil that assures us our daily bread. The wellbeing of nations and their individual citizens depends as much on economic vitality, social justice and ecological stability as it does on safety from foreign attack. Pursuing military security at the cost of these other factors is akin to dismantling a house to salvage materials to erect a fence around it.

And I must say, this is what we saw in Afghanistan, and, if the war in Iraq proceeds, this is what we are likely to see there.

South Africa has once again demonstrated her commitment to the peaceful resolution of conflict. Facilitating the meeting over the weekend to find solutions for the Middle East crisis and sending a delegation to Iraq cannot be downplayed. These are significant political contributions this country has made, and those of us who love peace appreciate this and congratulate the President of this country. The call for the African century for peace reflects the ideals and prayers of millions of Africans who have experienced different forms of conflict and deprivation. This statement reflects the pain, the anger, the desperation of African women when we have called for peace, for democracy and therefore for equality, for development and for prosperity.

There is no way we will say yes to the war in Iraq. No excuse, no explanation, no justification can convince us that to disarm one nation all other nations of the world must be threatened by the spectre of war. No individual, no nation must have the right to threaten the dreams of the millions or the dignity of humanity as we know it and the personal safety of children all over the world. This is in no way saying that as women we support the manufacture, the purchase, the stockpiling or the use of weapons of mass destruction. Iraq must disarm if it is found to be in possession of such weapons. The committees of defence will be receiving a briefing from the biochemical weapons inspection team that recently went to Iraq.

The President spoke about the need to regulate the security apparatus and to ensure that they do what they were set up to do. This means that we must know what they are supposed to do and we must be able to hold them to account. The security of our borders and the rural communities cannot be compromised and will not be compromised. Now, whilst some commando units do sterling work to protect the communities and the lives of the communities within their geographic responsibilities, some have been cause for great concern. The big question really has been whether we should not consider alternative means to secure rural communities better and more appropriately while we release the reserve forces to carry out their constitutional obligations. I must say here that the commandos are actually what is known as the territorial forces. They are part of the reserve forces, and that is what they must be, with the increased demand on the SA National Defence Force to do a lot of work internationally. We need to release these members of the reserve forces to do what they actually must do, and that is to participate in the exercises of peace missions and humanitarian aid across the globe.

The committees on defence began a process looking at how we rejuvenate the reserve forces of South Africa. We will be looking at military histories and cultures, race, gender and age as criteria towards the rejuvenation process of the defence force. We will continue to advocate more resources to go to the preparations of these reserve forces, for, as I said, the work that awaits them is great. The Constitution, the White Paper on Defence and the Defence Act spell out our national and international obligations, and to meet them we need an active and vibrant reserve force.

National studies have shown us the levels of skills we possess as South Africa. The United Nations Human Index Report of 1999-2000 showed that our critical skill weaknesses force us to look at reskilling the South African nation. Whereas members of the National Defence Force are considered to be skilled in their core functions, the service corps was intended to reskill those who are destined for separation. We need to give more attention to this programme this year.

A lot has been said about the age and health profile of the defence force, and sometimes with a lot of exaggerations. A restructured service corps will not only contribute to the reskilling of the members of the defence force, but could help all other Government departments participate towards a skilled and prosperous South Africa.

The President encouraged this Parliament to ratify the protocols on the Peace and Security Council and the African Parliament. This is exciting. Article 3(f) of the Constitutive Act of the African Union refers to the promotion of peace, security and stability in the continent. Articles 3(c), (d), (e), (g), (h), (i), (k), (l) and (m) all state the intention to integrate policies, mechanisms and systems. A quick look at Nepad also shows that whilst it is structured in three components, its overall pillar is also about regional integration. The focus of the Peace and Security Council will be to -

… anticipate and prevent conflicts. In circumstances where conflicts have occurred, the Peace and Security Council shall have the responsibility to undertake peace-making and peace-building functions for the resolution of these conflicts …

So the attempt of this Government to prevent the escalation of violent conflict in Zimbabwe is actually in line with the aspirations of the AU - protection against loss of life and property rather than us standing here and judging who is right and who is wrong in Zimbabwe. That is not the issue. Is it not time for us all to constructively look at solutions and to stop bickering? The protocol enjoins us to harmonise and co-ordinate efforts to combat international terrorism. It makes a call for the promotion of democratic practices, good governance, the rule of law, the protection of human rights and fundamental freedoms and respect for the sanctity of human life.

For us the need to develop a common defence policy for the continent is good news. For we have been calling for this initiative for many years. This will add to a better co-ordination and forge trust amongst the nations of Africa. This will make mandatory the standardisation of command systems, policies and equipment. This will in turn mean less need for individual nations to arm themselves against others and therefore will lead to better- targeted social spending in the continent.

Many years ago Mwalimu Nyerere, Dr Kaunda and Sir Seretse Khama formed a very vibrant and informal forum. Samora Machel and Agostinho Neto joined this group later and they went on to form the Frontline States to help speed up the eradication of colonialist and racist regimes. Much later, as freedom entered those two countries, Zimbabwe and Namibia joined them. The SADCC - with two Cs - was born in 1990 to co-ordinate economic co-operation in order to reduce dependence on apartheid South Africa. A few years ago we celebrated a decade of the transformation of the SADCC with two Cs into SADC with one C, which recognised the interrelationship between economic development, peace and stability, and that is where the founders expanded the mandate in 1992 to include political, military and security matters.

So in 1992, the leaders in SADC committed member states to peace, security, human rights, democracy, the rule of law and the peaceful resolution of disputes. At the conference of players and scholars late last year in Maputo, we examined why the noble ideas of the regions had not been achieved. The establishment of the AU Peace and Security Council means that we must look at the existing regional instruments, analyse them and make recommendations.

The protocols for the OPDS - the Organ on Politics, Defence and Security - were only signed in 2001 even though the decision to establish the organ had been taken in 1996. We must avoid delays like this.

The OPDS has three main problems, I think. One is that the chairpersonship rotates annually. This is a weakness because it means that the organ loses on institutional memory each time the chairperson takes the secretary and goes. The second weakness is that at its inception there was no provision made for its administrative capacity. In fact, the organ continues to use the old ISDSC as its secretariat. And the third weakness is that the organ never produced a programmatic plan of action.

Perhaps these weaknesses are a throwback to the informal days of the Frontline States and the ISDSC as well as the political alignment and the lack of trust that existed among SADC countries in those days. Having concluded its mandate, the Frontline States closed shop in 1994. But as I said, the ISDSC continues to function until the Organ on Politics, Defence and Security is operational.

The SADC players, the members of academia and civil society have identified key threats to security in the region. One of them is food security. And we agree that the effective management of this issue is critical to the region and has serious implications for regional development and stability. We need to co-ordinate efforts in this regard. For instance, we could look at pricing, subsidies and marketing controls.

The second threat we have identified is that millions in the SADC region are said to be under the threat of HIV/Aids. Among those seriously affected are the military personnel. Could this have any impact on our force structures and therefore the readiness of this region to protect itself? What then would be - if this has any impact - the levels of stability and what would happen to the territorial integrity of nations? We need to have better co-ordinated approaches to preventive strategies, to treatment, to drug distribution, to research and to the funding of HIV/Aids programmes in the region. The third threat which we have identified is around political transitions, weak parliaments and skewed resource allocations.

The launch of the International Law Enforcement Academy in Botswana in 2001 has allowed some regional training to take place and for the Regional Association of Police Commissioners to structure programmes that prioritise regional needs. But there is still a lot of work that we need to do together. For instance, we need to have common approaches to cross-border crimes, and we need to work on approaches to deal with the proliferation of small arms across the region. South Africa has promised in the White Paper on Defence to establish a regional register for all arms. We have yet to do this.

Although everybody has agreed to the new African Contingency Operations Training and Assistance Programme for the military, which should focus us on regional training needs and priorities, nothing is coming out of it because the Organ on Politics, Defence and Security is nonfunctional. This, then, forces the region to continue to work within bilateral agreements. I am not saying, Comrade President, that there is anything wrong with bilaterals; all I am saying is that we still have no idea of the economies of shared training and other training needs which we could have identified had we begun this regional integration of personnel equipment and systems.

Some of the governments in the region derive close to 60% of their spending and of their national budgets from donors, and we need to consider the financial implications of joint training. We would therefore need to start looking at what contributions we need to make if Africa is to have a joint standing force of her own. In short, Comrade President, we need to restructure the Organ on Politics, Defence and Security. [Applause.] Mr L M GREEN: Madam Speaker, hon President, Deputy President and members, in response to the President’s state of the nation address, I would like to highlight one or two issues. With regard to the Government’s response to fighting the HIV/Aids pandemic the President said, and I quote:

Working together with Sanac, we will continue to implement the Government’s comprehensive strategy on HIV and Aids, relating to all elements of the strategy. This includes implementation of the decisions of the Constitutional Court.

If Government has a comprehensive strategy to fight HIV/Aids and to treat persons infected with HIV, why is it necessary for one of its alliance partners, Cosatu, to take to the streets with the TAC to protest against Government’s response to the HIV/Aids pandemic?

If Government is unable to convince its own alliance partners that it has an effective workable plan to stem the tide of the HIV/Aids pandemic, how do you hope to convince the world that what you are doing in this regard is correct? There have been many calls by several social sectors on Government to sign and implement a national treatment and prevention plan, but to no avail. The march organised by the TAC and Cosatu was another such attempt to shake Government out of its slumber. But again the President glosses over this pandemic as if it is a peripheral issue.

The crux of the HIV/Aids issue is well summarised by Di Caelers, a journalist for the Cape Argus , when she writes in an article for the Weekend Argus of 15 February, and I quote:

In Europe, paediatricians expect children infected with HIV to live to adulthood - a far cry from the South African situation, where the advent of antiretroviral life-prolonging medication has pushed to new heights the imbalance between resources and needs. With people here dying in their thousands of Aids, as all sectors are denied treatment, it cannot be argued that it is children with HIV who are most likely to suffer disease and early death.

The response of Government regarding a national treatment and prevention plan is that it is unaffordable. The argument goes that antiretrovirals are too expensive and there are too many HIV-infected children: ``If we treat this one child, then we must treat them all, and there is simply not enough money in the budget for that.’’ Why is a national treatment and prevention plan to fight HIV/Aids not a national priority? If there is no money to treat HIV-infected children in our country, why is there money to send a team of government officials and scientists, technicians and engineers in a high-risk peace mission to Iraq? What is it costing this Government to send such a mission to Iraq?

The Human Sciences Research Council estimates that 375 000 South Africans, including children, are dying of Aids. The price is too high. If the tide must turn, let it also turn for those children that are not treated. Let it also turn for 27% of our population who are unemployed. Let it turn for thousands of ordinary South Africans who, every day, are robbed, raped and traumatised by those criminal elements who have no respect for law and order. If the tide must turn, let it turn for the better of all South Africans.

Mrs P DE LILLE: Madam Speaker, hon President, hon Deputy President, at the march on Friday, about 30 000 people from all walks of life, including women and children, marched to demand treatment and antiretrovirals. My experience was that of anger, disappointment and despair.

My questions therefore are, Mr President: How dare you leave this Aids pandemic in the hands of Sanac? Do you know that Sanac never met once, and their technical committee never met once in one year? [Interjections.] Did you create Sanac to deal with Aids so that the Cabinet can continue to go around the world not worrying about the pandemic? Is it true that Sanac has R1 billion to spend on treatment? If so, how are they going to spend it? Can Sanac produce minutes since its inception in January 2000? They have hardly had any meetings. Sanac is loaded with dissidents.

Sadly, either you are deceiving us, or all of you are living in a dream world, to think that Sanac has got the leadership that should lead this Aids pandemic. Sanac has no leaders that personify the struggle against the disease and does not support treatment or the concept of mother-to-child transmission. Where are the hands and feet of Sanac to do the work while the leadership is slumbering? Connected to the debate is also the Government’s inertia on the Aids pandemic and social grants. Even if you set the grant cut-off age at 21, it is not going to help, because we do not have the capacity to spend. Billions of rands of social welfare spending are returned to the Treasury every year whilst the poor are continuing to suffer. We all know the truth, so let us now speak the truth and stop blowing hot air. Aids causes poverty and it is not poverty that causes Aids.

Mr President, how are we going to get the grants to the people? How can we help to attain this goal? At the rate that the Minister is complaining, I am led to believe that his real capacity lack is that of brain capacity. So I am offering assistance in the presence of all in this House, and this country and the nation, that they must all help to make this country a better place and an empowering place for all of us to live in. I thank you. [Applause.]

Dr Z P JORDAN: Madam Speaker, Comrade President, Comrade Deputy President and hon members and comrades, war clouds are gathering with increasing momentum as we pass the midpoint of the second month of 2003. A century and eight months ago another war came to an end at Vereeniging. In its day the Anglo-Boer War, which ended on the 31st of May 1902, was regarded as emblematic of the powerful bullying the weak.

Under the pretext that Kruger’s South African Republic was undemocratic, Britain had attempted to effect what is now known as a regime change in the South African Republic, but Dr Starr Jameson was no Rambo. His mission failed even before he had set out. Kruger’s government had recently subdued the neighbouring Venda kingdom in a war of aggression and African communities that had submitted to the Boer yoke earlier were rightless helots amongst whom the Boer farmers could impress labourers.

When the war broke out in 1899, with the exception of Turkey, every European government opposed Britain, and an unusual consensus ensued amongst otherwise mutually competitive imperial powers. They became odd bedfellows in their shared antagonism towards Britain. It was generally acknowledged that Britain, the 19th century’s principal imperial power, had precipitated the war to gain control of South Africa’s mineral wealth.

Within every nation in Europe public opinion was overwhelmingly critical of Britain. On this issue Tzar Nicholas II and his archenemies the populists, the social democrats and the anarchists found themselves in the same trench. In Germany Kaiser Wilhelm was able to exploit vocal anti-British sentiment to his advantage and piloted a naval construction programme through the Reichstag virtually unopposed. In France the socialists and radicals sat comfortably in the company of their political opponents on the right in a movement not dissimilar to the broad spectrum of opinions opposing the war plans of the Bush administration in our day.

Britain felt herself vindicated by her immense wealth as well as her system of government. Though women in Britain could not yet vote, men from the propertied and middle classes enjoyed a full franchise. The Reform Act had also extended the franchise to significant layers of urban working-class men, making Britain one of the most advanced liberal democracies. The policies pursued in Britain’s two Southern African colonies, the Cape and Natal, seemed also to confirm this.

The Cape’s policy of a franchise for all civilised men in principle was colour-blind. African and coloured voters in the Cape consequently made up important constituencies that white politicians ignored at their peril. In Natal the more conservative white minority had effectively kept the franchise from all but six black potential voters despite official rhetoric about a colour-blind property owners’ franchise.

Yes indeed, compared to the two Boer republics, which were explicitly undemocratic, the political arrangements in Britain and her two colonies were infinitely better. But, the Anglo-Boer War was fought and won at a time when the African continent was considered the empire builders’ oyster.

We are at the beginning of a new century during which Africa will take charge of her own destiny through a comprehensive programme of renewal. During 2002 we inaugurated the African Union to replace the Organisation of African Unity, the OAU. The AU will take forward this new phase of the African struggle for emancipation. Its weaknesses and numerous faults notwithstanding, the OAU was wound up after successfully completing one of the principal tasks it had set itself in 1963; the eradication of colonialism and apartheid from our continent.

The new partnership for Africa’s development, Nepad, will join a long list of disheartening failures if it does not address the principal challenge facing the African continent today, and that is the challenge of eradicating poverty.

The information revolution sweeping the most developed parts of the world has been compared to the agrarian and industrial revolutions, both of which radically transformed the way human societies were organised. The futurist Alvin Toffler has referred to it as the ``third wave’’. Measured against Toffler’s projections there is a real danger that Africa could be further marginalised, considering that the greater part of the continent still has to experience an industrial revolution.

The ``third wave’’ differs from the earlier two because of its reliance on the technical innovations of the latter part of the 20th century. Telecommunications is the backbone of the information revolution and the key infrastructure for its growth and development. Trends in that sector have already established a daunting lead, separating the telecommunications haves from the telecommunications have-nots. Among the latter Africa is one of the least well-endowed.

If Africa is not to be left behind, we need to consider what needs to be done in South Africa, in the first instance, and in the rest of Africa. The growth, development and sophistication of our telecommunications infrastructure self-evidently will provide the platform for further advance. Clearly, we must develop this as the service backbone of the information society alongside manufacturing, mining and agriculture, together with the requisite human resources. The danger of a digital gap has been identified.

From 18th-century Britain, where it began, the Industrial Revolution had spread to every part of Northwestern Europe and the United States by the end of the 19th century. The latecomers built on the foundation laid in Britain. None of them was required to reinvent the steam engine or the various industrial processes pioneered by the British. They were thus able to leapfrog and even overtake the pioneer country. The United States, Germany and Japan did exactly that during the first half of the 20th century. The newly industrialised countries of the Pacific Rim that grew and developed during the last three decades of the 20th century offer even more interesting examples.

Africa, like all these other parts of the world, will be required to stand on the shoulders of other countries’ achievements. The roll-out of a continental telecommunications capacity alongside a transport infrastructure is the sine qua non for the success of Nepad. It is now common cause that South Africa’s economy is extremely distorted. Comrade President in his speech spoke of a dual economy. These are distortions rooted in the specific features of the capitalism that evolved in the context of colonial dispossession, a coercive labour system and a racially defined and disenfranchised proletariat.

The dogma that the state, no matter what its character, can only play an obstructive role in the economy, will not stand close scrutiny. The 20th century is replete with examples that demonstrate the exact opposite. Not least amongst these are the newly industrialised countries of the Pacific Rim. The expansion of the public works programmes is therefore to be welcomed, as is a more comprehensive approach to black economic empowerment.

But black economic empowerment must avoid the perils of old elites, emergent propertied classes and greedy wabenzis looting the state coffers in an orgy of self-enrichment. Transparency in awarding Government contracts and an attitude of zero tolerance towards corruption will deter those who might be otherwise tempted. [Interjections.]

South Africa must remain seized of the problem of Zimbabwe for reasons of altruism and of self-interest. [Interjections.] Zimbabwe is our neighbour and also our largest trading partner on the African continent. Besides the historic links between the two countries, the economies of South Africa and Zimbabwe developed as intertwined. The repercussions of a total economic meltdown in Zimbabwe will be felt in the streets of Johannesburg within hours.

Self-interest dictates that we assist Zimbabwe back to its feet. [Interjections.] Assisting a neighbour in trouble does not translate into interfering in its internal affairs. The problems of Zimbabwe will be solved by the people of that country, but it is self-evident that the high degree of polarisation in that society cannot be helpful and some mechanism will have to be devised to draw the two sides of the conflict closer. The pressing need for national dialogue among the key players, civil society and other stakeholders is now recognised by both the governing party and the opposition.

I would submit too that the question of Zimbabwe’s continued suspension from the Commonwealth and a regime of sanctions need to be examined against that backdrop. The crucial question we must ask is: Will the outcomes our actions are likely to produce benefit or harm the people of Zimbabwe?

As Comrade President has said, we prefer peace to war, we want peace because we know from our own experience that peace is the precondition for development. War brings death and destruction, and in their wake come poverty, deprivation and despair. Our demand for peace is designed, neither to let the Iraqi authorities off the hook, nor to frustrate United Nations efforts to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction.

As a movement the ANC has stood opposed to weapons of mass destruction for decades, and our opposition is not partial. We call for the abolition of all weapons of mass destruction, be they in the hands of Iraq, the United States of America, Britain, France, Israel, Pakistan, India, China, Russia or North Korea. [Applause.] We would insist, too, that if the weapons Iraq allegedly possesses pose a danger to world peace and international security, the international community has created an instrument, the United Nations Organisation, for our collective security. No-one has devolved on the US and its alliance of the willing the responsibility of safeguarding international security.

Those who have read and understood the history of the League of Nations need to remind president Bush and his willing helpers that it was the bully- boy tactics of the powerful states and the unilateralism that reduced the League of Nations to irrelevance. For those who actually have lived through and with the consequences of war, peace and stability are not mere abstractions. As the chicken hawks, bar one, who lead the Bush administration can testify, the sons of millionaires, the superwealthy and other members of elites can usually buy their way out of fighting wars. The poor pay for wars with the sweat, tears, blood and the corpses of their young.

In addition they also have to pay taxes. When the funds are diverted from social spending to defence and security it is the poor who invariably suffer. This is especially true in Africa, where instability and wars have all but destroyed the promise of independence. The pursuance of stability and peace requires eschewal of zero-sum politics in Africa. Democratic governance is the essential ingredient for the success of that project.

At the beginning of the previous century the gold standard established the centrality of gold as the international medium of exchange. The First World War demonstrated that oil, both as an energy source and as our primary lubricant, would acquire an importance greater than gold in the future, because it keeps the cogs of our industrial society turning. Four days ago Lawrence Ferlinghetti, a poet whom I like from my youth, wrote the following lines:

And a vast paranoia sweeps across the land And America turns the attack on its Twin Towers Into the beginning of the Third World War The war with the Third World And the terrorists in Washington Are drafting all the young men And no one speaks And they are rousting out All the ones with turbans And they are flushing out All the strange immigrants And they are shipping all the young men To the killing fields again And no one speaks And when they come to round up All the great writers and poets and painters The National Endowment of the Arts of Complacency Will not speak While all the young men Will be killing all the young men In the killing fields again So now is the time for you to speak All you lovers of liberty All you lovers of the pursuit of happiness All you lovers and sleepers Deep in your private dreams Now is the time for you to speak O silent majority Before they come for you

… and you and you and you, and maybe me. [Laughter.]

This past weekend over 30 million people spread over 600 cities across the world spoke out and it is our fervent hope that the powerful are listening. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr J P I BLANCHÉ: Madam Speaker, in his state of the nation address one expected the President of this country to report to Parliament, and so to the nation, how Government had succeeded in removing the stumbling blocks that hinder good governance, the eradication and downscaling of poverty and unemployment, and the curbing of violent crime.

Instead of continually telling us how tough they will be on criminals, we expect Government to go out, nail them and jail them. We expect the ANC to lead by example. Instead, what do we get? We see the example of their suspending a member of Parliament who admits to corruption. We say, ``Do not pay him another day’s salary as a member of Parliament.’’ What we would have loved to hear from the ANC speakers and the President is that no longer are 45 to 55 people murdered on a daily basis in South Africa - nine on one day in Sea Point. We wish to hear that no longer are scores of women and babies raped on a daily basis in South Africa; and although 30 000 vehicles have been hijacked in South Africa during the past two years, that Government is able to bring culprits to book. This assurance of crime prevention we did not get from the ANC, nor from the President.

Before 1994 there was no crime code in police files for hijacking in South Africa. Isn’t it a pity that the ANC-led Government cannot stop this crime which ruins the lives of so many families in South Africa? I have a newspaper clipping here of a person who has been hijacked five times in Gauteng. This crime has come into existence in the ANC’s time of governance. [Interjections.] For the nation’s sake the ANC must stop violent crime. Look at what happened when a murderer was pardoned by the President on the advice of one of his Ministers. [Interjections.]

Let’s turn to good governance and let me illustrate how the ANC is letting the nation down. In December I asked the Minister for Provincial and Local Government what the total arrears are of government departments in eight of the country’s largest metro councils. The answer was that Government owes those metro councils R323 million. In Gauteng this amount grows at a monthly rate of R200 million.

If Government does not pay its dues to local government ``how the hell’’, to use Mr Mandela’s words, can local government survive? Why do the ANC-led Governments increase their rates and taxes to make ends meet when they should instead take government departments to court for not paying their rates and taxes? Why increase the people’s taxes when Government fails to pay? Surely this is what is wrong with the ANC-led administration?

Look at how, under this presidency, the Government’s systems have failed to deliver. People in South Africa no longer have faith in the ANC-led Government. [Interjections.] If they did, why would Mr Mandela want to take over the jobs of the Minister of Health and of the Minister of Foreign Affairs? Even Roelf Meyer and Pik Botha want to take over the President’s job.

Our President seems desperate. He now takes anyone into his Cabinet, even Deputy Minister Schoeman and ex-Deputy Minister Malatsi on the advice of his ``kortbroek’‘adviser. In 25 years I have never seen such a desperate President. No wonder he goes to sleep when his new jet develops engine trouble. A man can only take so much. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon President of South Africa, in April 2002 my cousin, who had just been declared the owner of something called a house in the Bram Fischer settlement near Dobsonville, invited me to see the house. We drove to the area.

When we arrived I immediately noticed that the streets were not tarred and that some of the houses were built on an uneven slope. I also noticed that all the houses, without exception, were not partitioned into rooms. The only partition was a small toilet whose small door led to a small kitchen space. My immediate remark was: What happens if a member of the family has a runny tummy and other members are cooking in the small kitchen?

Being a member of Parliament made it possible for me to visit other parts of the country and witness the same type of structure this country has built for the poor.

Azapo has always held the view that Government is more worried about the number of structures it can deliver to the poor than the quality of these structures. Surely, after eight years of democracy, we should be concerned that we have not devised housing structures that create a better life for the poor?

The growth of the economy in the various sectors mentioned in the address by the President is indeed an encouraging factor in so far as it strengthens economic fundamentals. However, this growth should, at the same time, be accompanied by growth in jobs and in the standard of living of the poor. The extent to which this is not happening is a matter that Azapo believes should be attended to with speed.

The lack of a definition of what constitutes black economic empowerment has meant that black individuals have become millionaires without wealth filtering down to the poor and the workers. Azapo believes that the advancement of black economic empowerment should be linked to the broad economic transformation, and to the advancement of the poor’s wellbeing in general and their standard of living in particular.

We should not confuse black economic empowerment with individuals and individual black companies with the term ``black economic empowerment’’. To confuse the two is to restrict black economic empowerment to existing equity patterns in our country. Azapo is convinced that the South African economy will benefit greatly when the majority of our citizens become participants in all spheres of economic activity.

Just as a good game of cricket or soccer requires acceptance by players of both the rules and of the umpire to interpret and enforce the rules, so too the good society we are building requires that Government should monitor black economic empowerment. This requires that Government define the parameters, the conditions of practice and the means of arbitrating different interpretations of the conditions, and insist on some device to enforce compliance with the rules, as defined by Parliament.

Statistics SA’s official figure on unemployment stands at about 30%. The formal employment sector has in the past decade shed more than one million jobs. Given these statistics, it was encouraging to hear the President mention the steps that will be pursued regarding employment, and the training and promotion of small and medium enterprises.

Azapo, however, believes that the problem of joblessness is far bigger than can be resolved by the programme of human resource development and the creation of an enabling environment for SMMEs. It is our view that we should also train people to become job creators themselves, and also engage in a vigorous rural development strategy aiming at creating sustainable jobs in rural areas.

In a country such as South Africa, where the majority of our people were denied opportunities to acquire skills, the unskilled should also be afforded an opportunity to work and improve the condition of their lives. It is not their fault that they were denied the opportunity to acquire the skills. To Azapo, a rural and urban renewal development strategy by Government can go a long way in assisting the unemployed get jobs. As we speak, skilled teachers and graduates are jobless. The truth is that the formal employment sector is unwilling to employ them. Azapo believes that the time has come for an effective and co-ordinated Reconstruction and Development Programmme in rural areas. As we are preparing to start the 2003 legislative programme, we therefore have a responsibility to direct resources towards the upliftment of the poor in our country.

Allow me to add Azapo’s voice to the many voices in South Africa and in the world that are shouting against the US and the United Kingdom’s intention to wage war against Iraq. Azapo is opposed to war, whether waged by the US or Britain, or whether waged through the auspices of the United Nations. War is war, and it is devastating.

The acceptance by Iraq of our country’s offer to send a team of scientists, engineers, technicians and other experts to share with Iraq South Africa’s expertise in eliminating weapons of mass destruction is indeed a plus, not only for ourselves but for Africa as a whole. Our country’s peace initiatives in Africa and in Iraq are matters that Azapo unreservedly supports.

While listening carefully to the speech by the hon President, we are encouraged by Government’s intentions to increase social grants. Our view has, however, been that social grants by themselves cannot resolve the issue of poverty, and at times they are misused. The intention to train and empower community development practitioners touches our hearts greatly. This is an area that has been neglected and which was left only to NGOs and related bodies. Direct Government involvement in this area is long overdue, but there are some factors that may militate against delivery in this sphere of involvement.

Road infrastructure is at times nonexistent in remote areas of our country where community development practitioners are needed most. We urge Government to speed up road construction in rural areas. Salaries paid to community development practitioners, compared to those paid for Government jobs, is another factor that discourages trained and dedicated personnel.

Last year we saw an improvement in land restitution cases, but these were cases largely related to forced removals. Cases relating to historical claims, particularly in rural areas, still need to be resolved. It remains to be seen how Government will deliver on this front of our people’s struggle. In order to deliver meaningful land to our people, we suggest that Government should also look at land that is lying fallow and land that is used for speculative purposes.

All of us gathered here should realise that when we attained our independence and freedom, we did so through the mobilisation of the poor masses in the townships and in the rural areas. These are the same people who continue to vote for our different parties to represent them in this Parliament. Just as their participation in the removal of apartheid was necessary, it is important that their participation in the improvement of their lives is enhanced by Government programmes.

People lose faith when they realise that those they have entrusted with the responsibility of changing their lives are no longer committed to this goal. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Madam Speaker, one of the best and most constructive speeches from the Government’s side during this debate was that of the hon Derek Hanekom. He was balanced, sensible and reasonable. It immediately became apparent why he was thrown out of the Cabinet, because the way to favour in the ANC is namely to spout hot air, to come up with ignorant nonsense, to reconstruct reality, to be paranoid or to suck up to the boss. [Interjections.]

What a pity it was that we had to listen to the talented Minister of Wind, the hon Minister Asmal, wasting his 15 minutes on verbal histrionics. He set out to entertain us, and that he did. What a shame that he dealt so perfunctorily with his subject, which is education. He failed completely to tell us why, with a relatively static school population, he and the MECs who follow his policies fail to provide quality education for our children. Tens of thousands of young people emerge from our schools with school- leaving certificates which equip them for nothing other than permanent unemployment.

While at school, too many of our children still occupy schools which are grossly overcrowded and hopelessly inadequate. Come and visit me in Ivory Park, in Ebony Park, in Diepsloot and in Kaalfontein … [Interjections.] Oh, no. You were there for 10 minutes. Come and see the terrible conditions which are caused by the lack of planning, the lack of foresight and the lack of co-ordination by your department and those for whom you are responsible.

And what about the Minister of Housing? She talked at length here. Why doesn’t she talk instead to the housing MECs and the education authorities? Instead of planning together in a sensible manner, they all do their own thing. The result is that houses are built and then occupied by young parents without anyone thinking that schools, clinics and playing fields must be built simultaneously with the erection of houses, instead of making people wait five, 10 or 15 years for the ordinary amenities of life.

And what about the Minister of Sport and Recreation? Thank heavens we didn’t have him participating, but I would like to ask him to stop interfering in sport and to do something about the lack of sports fields for our children. You can travel the length and breadth of my province and you will find hardly a soccer field at our township schools; almost no cricket fields; no rugby fields; no swimming pools. [Interjections.] How do we expect our children to compete on merit when we don’t equip them to do so?

Then, Government statements too often seem aimed at harming South Africa. We have a situation in which people like the hon Deputy Minister Pahad accuses us of being clowns, windbags and un-South African. [Interjections.] I want to throw that right back at that hon Deputy Minister, by saying that he and his ilk actively undermine the interests of South Africa in the world. [Interjections.] He is responsible for a lot of what goes on. It is quite remarkable the damage which he and his Minister do to this country. [Interjections.]

We have the hon Pallo Jordan sitting over there. He wants peace. Now all of us want peace, and the point I would like to make is that if the United Nations had not forced Saddam Hussein to start complying, he would not have complied. [Interjections.]

What we should be doing is using our troops in the streets, which march on the American embassy, to march on the Iraqi embassy as well to prove that we are not anti-American. [Interjections.] Show a little even-handedness. There will be no war if Mr Saddam Hussein complies with the UN. It is as simple as that. [Interjections.]

The way to find favour in the ANC seems to be by making ridiculous and extravagant attacks on our natural friends and allies and embracing the pariahs and dictators of the world. Sometimes ANC statements sound like loony tunes, but nobody in Government seems to care or listen - not even to their partners.

Poor dear Boy Geldenhuys, that nice man, complained to Rapport some time ago that ``Die ANC luister nie na ons nie.’’ [The ANC doesn’t listen to us.] In one stroke he destroyed the basis for the participation of his party and his leader in Government, because the whole basis of it was that they were going to … [Interjections.] I cannot answer the hon member’s question now. [Interjections.]

They wanted to co-operate in governance at every level, because the New NP was going to influence these people here to follow sensible policies. [Interjections.] We heard the hon Dr Geldenhuys compare President Thabo Mbeki to the prophet Jonah, who lay sleeping calmly in the hold of a great ship as it rocked and rolled in a biblical storm.

Poor Boy forgot to say that if we were to read the story a little further, we would find that shortly after the sailors found Jonah sleeping they cast ballots and threw him overboard. [Interjections.] [Applause.] Perhaps he was warning the President that if he continued to sleep on some of the important matters in South Africa, while the storm rages about him, the voters will throw him overboard into the deep. [Interjections.]

Then we had the hon Renier Schoeman participating. That was the only participation from our Health Ministry. You would have thought that the Deputy Minister of Health would have stormed in to tell us about the influence he is exercising on health and Aids policy in South Africa, instead of which he said not a single word about health in this country, nor did his quiet Minister sitting over there. Not one word.

That means he has no influence over health policy. That is probably just as well, knowing him. The price of the motor car and the bodyguard and the cocktail party invitations to keep one’s mouth shut can’t be ignored. From being Rasputin, that hon Deputy Minister of Health has become a figure of derision.

Why does the President let Minister Tshabalala-Msimang say such silly things? She thinks that, without our submarines, the Americans may invade South Africa. Why does Smuts Ngonyama get away with making silly statements, such as that importing cheap Aids drugs may open our country up to biological warfare''? That same man describes the case presented by US Secretary of State Colin Powell, not as unconvincing or one that he doesn't like, but asirrelevant’’ and as a ``fabrication’’.

Mr Kgalema Motlante says that America might invade South Africa to get our platinum. This is the sort of voice that comes out of the Government that you represent. [Interjections.] That is why I say they are loony tunes. Why do they get away with it, and do they think they are serving South Africa’s interests while making statements like that? [Interjections.]

The President himself accused Britain and Australia of fabricating travel reports so that they could destroy the World Cup being held by Africa. I want to warn that there is a price to pay for every bit of verbal excess, for every bit of support for the Gaddafis and for every incautious, ridiculous and ignorant statement. That price comes in the form of reduced influence where it counts, and of reduced access. I predict that some of our ambassadors may well find that, rather than being able to promote and advance South Africa’s interests, they will not have real access to the most important decision-makers in key countries. [Interjections.] They will be treated courteously, but will be given a brush-off to the detriment of our country and to the detriment of Africa that we all love. [Interjections.]

We should be serving South Africa and serving South Africa’s interests, instead of which we walk around and run around and demonstrate and support the very people who should be put in their place in the world - the very people who are ensuring that Africa doesn’t get the support and attention it deserves. [Interjections.] If you are happy with that, we certainly are not in my party, and the people of South Africa are also not happy with what you are doing and the brand of government that you’re failing to give. [Interjections.] [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr J H JEFFERY: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon president, hon Deputy President and hon members, in his speech to us at Fernwood on Friday night the hon Gibson told us about how part of his brain had been removed. [Interjections.] After listening to his speech, I can understand why. [Laughter.] In his state of the nation address to both Houses of Parliament on Friday, the President spoke about Government intensifying its offensive against the cancer of corruption within the Public Service. This statement follows the January 8 statement of the ANC National Executive Committee, in which branches of the ANC were urged to remain vigilant and act firmly against the cancer of corruption and to create the possibility for united mass action against corruption. This also follows a comprehensive resolution on anticorruption adopted at the ANC’s 51st national conference in December last year.

The ANC-led Government has indeed taken great strides in the fight against corruption. There can be no comparison between the institutions in place and the steps being taken now to confront corruption and the position prior to the ANC taking power nine years ago.

On the institutional front, our Constitution provides for independent institutions such as the Auditor-General, the Public Protector and the Public Service Commission. Additional bodies established to deal with corruption include the Independent Complaints Directorate, the National Prosecuting Authority and a number of structures comprising both members of the SAPS and prosecuting authorities.

On the legislative front, the Public Finance Management Act has transformed the controls over the spending of public money, and made the prevention and detection of corruption in this sector a lot easier. Parliament, as hon members are aware, is currently finalising similar legislation at a municipal level. The Protected Disclosures Act provides for the protection of whistle-blowers.

Government has also developed a national programme against corruption, which culminated in the establishment of the National Anticorruption Forum in June 2001 and the adoption of the Public Service Anticorruption Strategy in January of last year. Finally, a number of anticorruption hot lines have been established by national departments and provincial governments.

It must be recognised that corruption is not just limited to the Public Service. It is not just the public servant who demands a bribe before he or she will perform a certain function. A crucial participant is the member of the public who is prepared to pay the bribe. It is also the ordinary citizen who tries to claim social grants to which he or she is not entitled. As we know, corruption is also prevalent in the private sector.

Our efforts to combat corruption must also address the scourge of corruption in civil society. The moral regeneration movement will hopefully create a culture in which corruption in civil society is not tolerated.

Measuring the extent of corruption seems to be difficult. Transparency International, for example, rates countries, but does so on the degree to which corruption is perceived to exist amongst public officials and politicians. Whilst in no way denying that corruption exists, perceptions are not necessarily that accurate. A recent survey, for example, found that a staggering 80% of its sample contended that there was a lot of corruption in South Africa, However, the National Victim Survey in 1998 found that only 2% of individuals had actually experienced corruption.

We need to be careful that we do not overexaggerate the extent of corruption in our country, and I hope the hon members on that side are listening. The press has an important role to play in exposing corruption, but needs to be careful not to oversensationalise allegations of corruption. It goes without saying that allegations of corruption sell newspapers. Newspapers often outdo each other to see who can make the most of a particular allegation. The same set of facts at the press’s disposal sometimes gets recycled, but with a different spin to make it seem as if it is breaking news.

In this regard the J P Landman and Associates study makes interesting reading. The study focused on newspaper reports of corruption in South Africa from November 2000 until December 2001. One of the issues they looked at was which agent was responsible for bringing corruption into the public sphere. They found that in this period the overwhelming number of cases, 60,2%, were exposed through official Government processes and that investigations by journalists exposed a mere 8%.

We might think, particularly hon members on my left, that there is more corruption now. But, as speakers have stated earlier in this debate, it is because the workings of Government are far more transparent than they have ever been. Have we forgotten what it was like before 1994? [Interjections.]

Corruption is a crime. Let us not forget that a person’s guilt is not determined by what one finds on the pages of a newspaper, no matter how sensationally a story may be written. The only institution that can decide whether a person is guilty of corruption are the courts. They can only do this, hon Taljaard, after hearing, examining and evaluating all the evidence against the person accused. [Interjections.] And even then, it is only after the accused has had the opportunity to defend himself or herself. I am surprised that you seem to have forgotten the DA’s experiences with Mr Harksen. [Interjections.]

It is these practices that define us as a civilised society. [Interjections.] That is precisely the point. We do not tolerate lynch mobs whipping up emotions and dispensing instant justice to those that they suspect. It is easy to make allegations, but much more difficult to substantiate them so that the evidence stands up to legal scrutiny.

I would like to remind the House of a motion brought by the hon Schoeman on 21 October 1997, which started with the words: ``The House, taking note of the increasing occurrence of nepotism in Government …’’.

It went on to request that the Public Protector investigate specific allegations of nepotism. The Public Protector did investigate. His report, No 11 of 1999, was tabled in this House. In his report the Public Protector stated: From the investigation by my office of the complaint of nepotism by the NP'' - they were still the NP at that stage -I could not find one instance where such an allegation could be justified.’’

The press is very powerful in determining public opinion, but it must use its influence responsibly. A case in point is that of baby Tshepang. Six men were arrested for her rape. The newspapers showed us pictures of these men. From the angle the pictures were taken, you could well believe that these men were capable of committing such a horrible crime. But they were innocent. The forensic evidence did not support the charges against them and they were released. Another man was arrested and eventually found guilty of the crime. After their release the press showed us different pictures of these men, pictures of them with their families in which they looked like normal human beings.

The whistle-blowers Act, the Protected Disclosures Act, encourages reporting to bodies that will ensure that allegations are properly investigated. Protection of people who leak information to the press is only given in very serious cases, or when earlier reporting to the responsible bodies has not yielded results.

The press needs to be careful that it does not become the conveyor of sensational allegations that are being leaked to it for other reasons. In receiving such allegations, journalists need to ask themselves whether the source referred the matter to investigators and, if not, why not.

The arms procurement process is a case in point. It has been dubbed the ``arms scandal’’ by many newspapers, but any facts pointing to a scandal have yet to surface. I quote Jethro Goko, deputy editor of Business Day, who said in an article published last Friday:

I have so far not been convinced, judging by what has come out in the public domain, that there is much overwhelming evidence that South Africa’s multi-billion rand arms procurement package was fatally and comprehensively flawed by large-scale corruption in Government.

We must not lose sight of the fact that the strategic defence package was unique in South Africa. It was the first time that such a package approach to the acquisition of armaments was adopted. Owing to the sanctions imposed on the acquisition of arms prior to 1994, an adequate acquisition policy to accommodate the procurement of armaments for the SANDF on international markets did not exist. It had never been done before.

Government also took steps to ensure that corruption did not occur in the deal. But when the allegations starting surfacing, it was Government which took the steps to have the matter investigated.

Hon members are reminded that the Joint Investigating Team report, which was presented to Parliament on 14 November 2001, found no evidence of any improper or unlawful conduct by Government. The report did outline that certain areas of investigation would continue into specific matters by the National Director of Public Prosecutions.

One of these areas was that of the hon Tony Yengeni, who has been found guilty of defrauding Parliament by not disclosing a discount he received on his motor vehicle. The prejudice to Parliament was that its image and the public’s trust in the institution were tainted. I know that some of the hon members here were disappointed that he was not found guilty of corruption and, specifically, of unduly influencing the arms procurement process. But he was never actually charged with this. The charge of corruption, on which he was acquitted, was that he received a benefit not legally due; alternatively, that he pretended that he would use his powers to influence the arms acquisition.

The hon Holomisa, who is not in the House right now, demanded in his speech yesterday that the President explain to the nation the application of the plea-bargaining mechanism. He was quoted in last Friday’s The Star as being outraged'' at the plea-bargain procedure which resulted in Yengeni's acquittal on the main charge of corruption. He went on to say:We are of the view that a fair trial where the merits of the case could be heard and where the truth could be exposed did not take place.’’

I am not sure how the President will respond, but hon Holomisa, as a member of the justice committee which passed that Bill, let me remind you that this House passed the plea-bargaining law - that was the Criminal Procedure Second Amendment Bill - on 2 November 2001.

The amendments relating to plea-bargaining were proposed by the SA Law Commission and were designed to simplify and streamline the criminal justice system by allowing plea bargaining to take place, amongst other instances, in cases in which the state may have difficulty in proving all the charges.

I would like to refer the hon Holomisa to the debate in Hansard in columns 7466 to 7475 of 2001, where he may find information to this effect, and, in particular, he should read the speech of his own hon member, the hon J T Maseka, who supported the Bill. That speech is in column 7471.

The hon Holomisa also needs to be reminded that the decision to accept a plea bargain is that of the prosecutor who, in terms of section 179 of the Constitution, exercises his or her functions without fear, favour or prejudice. I know, however, that reading Hansard or constitutions may well be documents that a serial coup leader does not read that carefully. [Laughter.]

Let us intensify our fight against the cancer of corruption. Let us ensure that those involved in corruption are brought to book. But let us do it in such a way that ensures that the due process of law is followed, and let us not use wild allegations for cheap party politicking in a way that may destroy the reputations of people who may be innocent. Thank you. [Applause.]

Ms S C VOS: Madam Deputy Speaker, Mr President, Mr Deputy President and hon colleagues, the President of the IFP, Prince Mangosuthu Buthelezi, has already eloquently articulated and demonstrated the important substance and the constructive tone our party desired be reflected in this debate on a range of critical issues.

I will now attempt to contribute in another direction and to continue on the nation-building theme that my colleague the hon Deputy Minister of Public Works has already begun. The IFP has long been concerned about the social contract that we believe should exist between this Government, and any future government for that matter, and the citizens of this country. We have heard much about delivery and our sincere collective determination to generally empower and uplift the men, women and youth of our land. The myriad of details are well known.

This House has been a veritable ``marketplace of ideas’’, as the saying goes, and the cut and thrust of this debate has brought to the fore grim truths, wishful thinking and essential practicalities.

The obligations and responsibilities of Government are well known. Your address to this nation, Mr President, has been generally described as a balanced workmanlike approach to many of the issues that we all accept require our urgent attention in one way or another.

However, we have heard very little in this debate about what we surely have a right to expect in return from the recipients of these labours. Why? Should we not consider whether we are too defensive about and make too many excuses for the indolents who stalk our street corners? Are we for some reason too scared to put the boot on the other foot and to start making some reasonable reciprocal demands of our own from the voters who placed us in power?

I know that in the past we have all asked nicely for co-operation, for goodwill, for that helping hand that would have made all the difference in so many ways. But let us, for a change, concentrate on what others are doing to help us help them. Has a meaningful ethos of self-help and self- reliance permeated into our homes and schools and all the other structures of our society? How many parents, learners and teachers help, for instance, to clean and do what they can to maintain our schools? Why is this an exception and not a norm?

Has an ethos of self-help permeated? This is a question that is critical to our social development. Do the majority of persons in possession of relevant information about criminal activities in our communities come forward? We know the answer to that.

As a simple example, do the majority of persons across our socioeconomic divide bother to rally to entreaties to simply pick up and dispose of the litter that pollutes their immediate environments? We know the answer to that too. Do they bother to help the aged and the infirm in whatever way they can and merely give of their time, which would mean so much? Why do so many with the capacity not willingly give of their expertise to mentor, for example, students, and assist NGOs and charities in need? Why do so many of our drivers continue to recklessly kill and maim when public awareness campaigns surely, by now, should have had some impact?

Too many families conceal women and child abuse which, apart from sickening physical violence, also includes the irresponsible, arrogant, furtive attempts by some parents, usually men - we know for a fact - to avoid paying child maintenance. The demands for billions of rand in Government and social welfare programmes would, no doubt, halve over time if this Government got really tough on parents who deliberately renege on their obligations and their responsibilities as parents.

The usual community stalwarts and the silent majority of stalwarts give of themselves time and again. We obviously must not deny their outstanding contributions, and it is hoped that they are aware of our gratitude. There are indications that some are slowly recognising the necessity of helping us to help them. Minister Maduna spoke passionately of reduction in crime thanks to community involvement in certain instances, and that is wonderful. But how can we get this ball rolling?

Mrs S A SEATON: Madam Deputy Speaker, may I ask the House on that side, who requested earlier on that their speakers be heard, to allow our speaker to be heard, please. [Interjections.]

Ms S C VOS: Should South Africa be any different from most countries in the world where democratically elected governments not only expect, but actually demand, codes of conduct and, where possible, the active positive participation of their electorates in the implementation of their policies and programmes?

Is it not time we faced the truth that we are cursed by the outdated attitudes of entitlement, which have long passed the sell-by date of the politics of the struggle for liberation? Isn’t it time for some tough talk, coupled with encouragement? Enlightened self-interest is always a winning ticket. We must face the unpleasant fact that the very persons we attempt to diligently serve can, in the final analysis, either contribute to the positive growth of our nation or, at every turn, tear away and ultimately destroy the fragile fabric of our society, no matter what this Government or any future government does for them. Thank you. [Applause.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon President, hon Deputy President, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, there have been varied responses to the state of the nation address by the President of the Republic of South Africa. It has generated a frenzy of discussions in many sectors of our country. Some have commended the President, citing his amazing insight into major issues and challenges facing our country today. Others have disagreed, pointing out that the President should have emphasised or elaborated on certain points or de-emphasised others.

The SA Human Rights Commission, for instance, in its response says, and I quote:

The SA Human Rights Commission is pleased with the commitment to alleviate poverty as expressed by the President of the Republic of South Africa in his opening speech today in Parliament.

It goes on to point out, and I quote:

Whilst the country has made strides towards consolidation of our democracy, poverty alleviation remains an issue that needs constructive, workable and implementable strategies.

The Minister of Home Affairs and President of the IFP, Dr Mangosothu Buthelezi, said in his speech yesterday, and I quote:

Undoubtedly enormous progress has been achieved in a multiplicity of fields and endeavours undertaken by our Government.

He went on to say, and I quote again:

Our Government has performed well across the board of many line functions. Delivery has increased, and this year we are doing better than last year and are set to see next year improving on today’s results. Therefore there is much call for satisfaction and comfort.

Dr Buthelezi further implored us to focus attention on the work ahead, which must now reach out for the proverbial extra mile.

There are also those who have sought to position themselves on the extreme end of opposition - those who have unashamedly sought to make political gains out of a grave situation facing especially the developing world. Take, for instance, the Leader of the Opposition. This is how he opens his speech, and I quote:

We must change South Africa and we can.

Visibly play-acting he continues, and I quote:

We are watching one of the most extraordinary calamities in human history

• the wiping out of millions of people, in peacetime, by a known cause that has a known treatment.

In this context we must then ask what message is the phrase that has a known treatment'' meant to convey? According to the Cambridge International Dictionary of English, the 1996 edition, totreat’’, in medical terms, is to use drugs, exercises, etc, in order to cure a person of a disease or heal an injury.

So why are we creating false impressions for our people? First and foremost the message that needs to be put across to our people clearly and unambiguously is that there is no cure for the known cause referred to by the hon member. [Interjections.] More importantly, the Government that, according to some, is said to lack political courage, has actually committed itself to the implementation of Government’s comprehensive strategy on HIV and Aids. The President specifically pronounced on this issue, adding, and I quote:

This includes implementation of the decisions of the Constitutional Court.

However, the most intriguing aspect of this issue is that those who claim to love our people so much that they do not want to be witness to mass death'', as they put it, do not emphatically tell the people they claim to love so much, firstly, that because there is no cure for HIV/Aids, the first line of defence is prevention; secondly, that in the fight against HIV and Aids, the struggle for clean water needs to be intensified as the use of contaminated water acts directly to cause disease by carrying microbes and worms that cause repeated infections and weaken the immune system through exhaustion, exacerbating conditions such as Aids; thirdly, that in the fight against HIV/Aids, people infected with the disease must be treated as human beings with all the rights of equal citizens of this country; and, fourthly, that the drugs we supply to people living with the disease are suitable for consumption, are of a world-class standard and, more importantly, are to be made affordable to our people. They also do not tell our people that, as Dr Buthelezi put it yesterday,Especially in the dark age of HIV/Aids, a heathy diet is essential’’.

The people that claim to love us, that proclaim their love for our people, are luring all of us into the grave. They de-emphasise prevention and profile treatment highly. What is likely to happen, in this case, is that a psychological state of normality is created. It is as if we we can live normally and there is no problem. A false hope is created to the effect that should a problem arise, there will be treatment.

If one may ask, why is this being done? Why are we being so irresponsible? Why are we being lured into the grave? [Interjections.] In this regard it is also relevant to remember one incident that took place in this House. We moved a motion of condolence on the passing away of one of our youth leaders. Before we could state the cause of death, a member of the party that claims to love our people said, in a jolly good manner, ``Aids!’’ We protested at this and the member in question was asked to apologise. The youth leader in question had lost his life in a car accident.

That, however, is not the point. The issue is what kind of people we have here - the sort of people who laugh over a dead person’s body. They claim to love our people when they are alive, but laugh at them when they are dead. What morality is this? [Applause.]

The picture has successfully been painted among some sections of our community that the Government, and the ANC in particular, does not care for the lives of the citizens of this country. In this regard, let me steal again from the words of one of the elders of this House who happens not to be a member of the ANC, namely Dr Buthelezi. Speaking about this problem yesterday he said, and I quote:

As a Minister in Government I know how much our Government is doing to face up to this pandemic.

Yet the hon Leon continues to say that life is no better now than it was. Let us just remind the hon member that before the time we are living in now there was apartheid, a crime against humanity … [Interjections] … one of the most savage political systems the world has ever seen. So if we are to be informed by his statement, we must conclude that for him apartheid was better than the new, democratic South Africa. [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE LARGEST MINORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: The hon Chief Whip, with respect, is misquoting the hon Leader of the Opposition. [Interjections.] He is misquoting him, and he must know that he is misquoting him because the speech is available. [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order! No, hon member, actually that is not a point of order. In actual fact I think he was paraphrasing what he believes the hon member was saying. [Interjections.] It was not really a quotation. Please take your seat, hon Gibson. [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: One must actually say that hearing this from him is actually a relief for two reasons. The first is that his opening declaration, ``we must change South Africa,’’ can now be better understood as to the direction that he is actually yearning for. [Interjections.] Secondly, many who have suspected this sort of thing from him are now clarified.

The hon member Raenette Taljaard asked the President, and I quote:

Mr President, we have every right to ask you today: What values will define us? What moral renewal edifice will we build with foundations of quicksand? We have had at least three Cabinet Ministers implicated and/or under investigation for suspected corruption in South Africa’s first decade of freedom.

Then, of course, she continues to name the persons in her mini-story.

One would have liked to take issue with many of the points raised in the contents thereof. For instance, what is specifically meant by with foundations of quicksand''? Also, why is the phrase first decade of freedom’’ in her speech written in inverted commas? [Interjections.] Could it possibly mean that whilst she is a democrat, judging by the name of her party, she does not, however, identify with the democratic phase of our history? Intriguing, is it not? However, be that as it may, the content of her question is actually a small matter. The broad question that we all have to address ourselves is corruption as a broad issue facing this nation.

For our young South African member of Parliament a few short stories should illuminate this issue. On 1 September 1963 Bellington Mampe died while in detention. On 9 September 1964 Suliman Saloojee fell out of a seventh floor window, we were told. He was also in detention. On 5 February 1982 Neil Aggett hanged himself while in detention. For these murders and many more no one was ever investigated, let alone the question of an arrest. This, hon member, is our past. [Interjections.]

Today South Africans of whatever standing have the law above them and no one above it. Looking back at where we come from, we should indeed agree with the President and many others who say South Africa is a symbol of hope.

The very democratic constitutional and legal framework that we have set up represents, comprehensively understood, our determination as a nation to prosper and our collective rejection of all that is evil, including corruption.

Finally, we want to end by posing the following question. The question is: Who will benefit from black economic empowerment? While we are thinking about the answer, which, to some of us, looks so obvious, I want to read to you a quotation from Barbara Kingsolver’s novel The Poisonwood Bible. I must also declare: Comrade Sue, I still have to return your book by the way. [Laughter.] It goes like this:

You’ll say I walked across Africa with my wrists unshackled, and now I am one more soul walking free in a white skin, wearing some thread of the stolen goods: cotton or diamonds, freedom at the very least, prosperity. Some of us know how we came by our fortune, and some of us don’t, but we wear it all the same. There’s only one question worth asking now: How do we aim to live with it?

[Applause.]

Mr D M BAKKER: Mevrou die Adjunkspeaker, vir die agbare Delport en Gibson wil ek in die woorde van Tony Blair sê: [Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to quote the following words of Tony Blair to the hon Delport and Gibson:] ``Old baggage discarded, new thinking required’’. [Interjections.]

Some opposition parties and commentators’ reactions to the President’s address sounded more empty-headed, than open-minded. They criticised for what was not said, but failed to recognise the importance of the vision of moderate politics and the President’s priorities for the future which were spelt out in his address. [Interjections.]

In addressing unemployment and the eradication of poverty and inequality, the President has been greeted by a fight-back approach saying the nation is strong. As long as we have high levels of poverty there will be high levels of crime and malnutrition, and the nation will not be fine.

The critics expected great innovation, but their only contribution is limited to the new election slogan of ``Fight back for the winds of change’’. The leader of the opposition claims that the future belongs to the opposition, but unfortunately he doesn’t know the difference between opposition and arrogance. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

The way in which speech writers, spin doctors, organisers, regional chairpersons and councillors desert his party, while he is wining and dining with Harksen, says it all. [Interjections.] [Applause.] The FF supporters might just find the DA-DP too far right wing for their own liking. [Interjections.]

By contrast, the hon Dr Buthelezi said that he speaks to motivate and stimulate progress in the right direction. He critically took stock of where our beloved country is, and there are indeed several aspects to be critical about. The hon President has heard it all, and specifically all the concerns regarding Zimbabwe and HIV/Aids.

Die uitfasering van die kommandostelsel, sonder duidelikheid oor presies wat dit gaan opvolg, wek groot kommer. Ongelukkig bestaan die indruk dat ‘n paar vrot appels die pak versuur. Juis hierdie vrot-appel-persepsie illustreer die absolute noodsaaklikheid om die verdelings van ons geskiedenis te oorbrug en ‘n fondament te bou vir die fundamentele herskikking van die Suid-Afrikaanse politiek. Ons moet ‘n samelewing skep waarin alle Suid-Afrikaners glo hulle ‘n belang het en waarvoor daar ‘n gemeenskaplike lojaliteit en patriotisme bestaan, en dit is die grondslag van ons ooreenkoms met die ANC.

Ons moet aan alle Suid-Afrikaners hoop gee vir die toekoms deur konstruktiewe dialoog en deelname aan besluitneming. Ons glo in Suid-Afrika en stel Suid-Afrika eerste, anders as die agbare leier van die opposisie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Daarom kan ons nie gedeeltelik Suid-Afrikaners wees nie en kan ons nie mooiweer Suid-Afrikaners wees nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The phasing out of the commando system, without any clarity about what exactly will take its place, is cause for great concern. Unfortunately, the impression has been created that a few rotten apples are spoiling the whole barrel. Precisely this perception of rotten apples illustrates the absolute necessity to overcome the divisions of our history and to build a foundation for the fundamental reorganisation of South African politics. We must create a society in which all South Africans believe they have an interest and for which there exist a common loyalty and patriotism, and that is the basis of our agreement with the ANC.

We must give all South Africans hope for the future through constructive dialogue and participation in decision-making. We believe in South Africa and we put South Africa first, unlike the hon leader of the opposition. [Interjections.] Therefore, we cannot be partial South Africans, and we cannot be fair-weather South Africans either. [Interjections.]]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Can we have some order, hon members? We can’t have running commentary. I mean, heckling is accepted, but running commentary makes it difficult to hear the speaker.

Mr D M BAKKER: Of course we differ on the details and on emphasis placed on several issues, but it is not in our interests to run our own country down. There is so much that we can be proud of. I am a proud South African.

The truth about my country is that inflation is at the lowest it’s been in my lifetime. [Applause.] The truth is that we have some of the world’s cheapest electricity. Our banking sector is ranked in the top 10 in terms of competitiveness. We can actually drink water from our taps. Ten years ago more than 64 countries had sports boycotts against us, and today many of them are competing for the Cricket World Cup in our own country. [Applause.]

The truth is our wines are internationally respected and enjoyed, and the Kruger National Park is the best of its kind. [Applause.] We produce BMWs, Mercedes Benzes, Golfs and Jettas for right-hand-drive markets throughout the world.

The truth is our gold, diamonds and platinum, and our beaches and sunshine are the envy of the world. [Applause.] But best of all, we have warm, friendly, innovative and vibrant people. [Applause.]

Mense soos wynboer Abrie Botha van Vredendal wat ‘n ooreenkoms met sy plaaswerkers het om ‘n 30% aandeel in sy wingerd te bekom. Ryan Kilian, ‘n elfjarige seun van Geduld, wat 14 kleuters en babas uit ‘n bussie red tydens ‘n gewapende roof. Sinenhlanhla Dlamini van Nongoma in KwaZulu-Natal wat ses onderskeidings in matriek verwerf in ‘n skool waar daar geen elektrisiteit, geen lopende water, geen biblioteek, laboratoriums of rekenaars is nie. [Applous.] Mense soos Natalie du Toit wie se vasberadenheid en gesindheid die hele wêreld geïnspireer het.

As ‘n trotse Suid-Afrikaner glo ek en my party dat wit en swart, bruin en Indiër Suid-Afrikaners saam verantwoordelik is vir ons toekoms. [Applous.] As trotse Suid-Afrikaners glo ons dat ‘n gemeenskaplike patriotisme in die politieke lewe net so belangrik is soos wat geloof in godsdiens is.

Ons weet dat rekonsiliasie en die ontwikkeling van ons interpersoonlike verhoudings ‘n voorvereiste vir ‘n vreedsame en nie-rassige Suid-Afrikaanse gemeenskap is. Trotse Suid-Afrikaners het ‘n gemeenskaplike doelwit om die uitdagings van ons tyd aan te spreek en saam oplossings te vind.

Ek is ‘n trotse Afrikaner. Ek is ‘n trotse Suid-Afrikaner. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[People like the wine farmer, Abrie Botha of Vredendal, who has an agreement with his farmworkers to acquire a 30% interest in his vineyard. Ryan Kilian, an eleven-year-old boy from Geduld, who saved 14 toddlers and babies from a minibus during an armed robbery. Sinenhlanhla Dlamini from Nongoma in KwaZulu-Natal, who achieved six distinctions in matric in a school where there is no electricity, no running water, no library, laboratories or computers. [Applause.] People such as Natalie du Toit, whose determination and attitude inspired the whole world.

As a proud South African, my party and I believe that white and black, coloured and Indian South Africans are jointly responsible for our future. [Applause.] As proud South Africans we believe that a common patriotism in political life is just as important as faith is in religion. We know that reconciliation and the development of our interpersonal relationships are prerequisites for a peaceful and nonracial South African community. Proud South Africans have a common goal of addressing the challenges of our time and of jointly finding solutions.

I am a proud Afrikaner. I am a proud South African. [Applause.]]

Mr B MTHEMBU: Madam Deputy Speaker … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: What is your point of order, hon member?

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Deputy Speaker, is it in order for the hon Mr Lee to read a newspaper in the House? He’s now putting it down.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It is totally out of order, if he is reading the newspaper in the House. [Interjections.]

Proceed, hon member.

Mr B MTHEMBU: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon Comrade President, Comrade Deputy President, hon members and comrades, in 1994 we started the journey towards the ideal of a united, nonracial, democratic, peaceful and prosperous South Africa.

The first term of the ANC-led Government saw the start of the deconstruction of the apartheid colonial state and its replacement with a progressive constitutional order and, as a consequence, a progressive policy and legislative framework. Consistent with this, we were given an overwhelming endorsement by the electorate in the 1999 elections to accelerate change for a better life for all. In so doing, the people of this country gave us the political mandate to build a winning nation through an intensified offensive for reconstruction and development.

The ANC-led Government has remained unwavering and honest to the commitment it made to the people of South Africa, and we will continue to advance our obligation of the creation of a better life for all our people, especially the poor.

We have a political mandate, which we made explicitly clear in our manifesto, that this Government will strive for world peace - that is a mandate. The majority of the people of this country have endorsed that position. So we don’t want people who come in through the back door to preach war to this democracy.

The overarching strategy of our social programmes remains pushing back the frontiers of poverty, and eliminating economic and social inequality and unemployment within the context of a growing economy and in support of a macroeconomic framework. At the heart of our social programme is the development of our people. This entails multidimensional and fundamental structural changes in the social, economic, political and cultural sectors of our society. This is central to our policies and is non-negotiable, and requires change in popular attitudes and institutional arrangements.

For the record, since 1994 we have succeeded in bringing about structural changes in the education, health and welfare systems. At present, social services account for 53,4% of the total Budget. The fact that half of the national Budget is invested in social development and human capital is irrefutable proof of our commitment to breaking the vicious cycle of poverty and underdevelopment. Surely, this must be proof to our worst critics - some present here today and elsewhere - that we are the only party to lead the fight in enhancing the living standards of our people, thus providing the basis for sustained growth and development?

Contrary to what the hon Leader of the Opposition says - that we spend less on our human resources - very few countries spend more than half of their total budgets on social infrastructure. This is what the Government has done as a commitment to the development of our people, because we are a people-centred Government. [Applause.]

In the second democratic dispensation, we committed ourselves to improving the quality of education and the development of our human resources. The urgency of producing an educated and skilled population was pronounced clearly by our President in his state of the nation address to Parliament on 25 June 1999.

Characterising education and training as decisive drivers in our effort to build a winning nation, he called for the mobilisation of the energies and experiences of our people and the building of a new partnership based on a commitment to building a better life for all.

The call by our President should be understood not only in the context of our country’s entry into the global knowledge society at the turn of the last century, but, more importantly, in the context of the deep scars left by the legacy of Bantu Education on our human resources. These scars manifest themselves profoundly in the education sector.

The painful history of statutory underfunding, and the crippling effects of job reservation and the colour bar on skilled development have prevented our nation from being adequately prepared for the challenges of the global knowledge society in the 21st century. As we are gathered here, the destructive and enduring consequences of apartheid education are still thwarting our efforts to transform our economy and the Public Service.

Yes, the injunction by our President was given life with the launch of Tirisano by the Department of Education in 1999 in terms of the theme: ``Working together to build a South African education and training system for the 21st century.’’ This five-year plan has as its strategic focus the qualitative structural changes of our education system in order to meet the challenges of a global knowledge society.

The substantial resources that have been invested in education amply demonstrate the commitment of our ANC-led Government to developing human resources. Since 1994, the education budget has increased from R31,8 billion to R59,8 billion in 2002. This constitutes 6% of our GDP. It is important to point out that 6% is the international standard set by the world body, Unesco.

Perhaps more significant, however, is our Government’s adherence to the principle of a global Framework for Action, adopted in Dakar in 2000 by the World Education Forum, which reads as follows:

No country seriously committed to basic education will be thwarted in the achievement of this goal by lack of resources.

As part of the process of reconstructing our educational system, we have established the Human Resource Development Strategy, which was released in April 2000 by the Ministries of Education and Labour. The master plan provides a comprehensive framework that addresses inequalities in the acquisition of skills and knowledge in order to improve our economic productivity and international competitiveness.

Moreover, the process of setting up appropriate institutional arrangements for skills development, in terms of the Skills Development Act of 1998, has been completed. In 2000 the Skills Development Fund was introduced. By March 2000, 25 sector education and training authorities were set up, and by March 2001 all 25 Setas had already submitted their sectors’ skills plans for implementation in 2002. As our President said, ``the tide has turned’’. We now need to take this tide at the flood very fast. [Applause.]

Last year we released the revised curriculum statement for Grade R to Grade 9 and the national curriculum for Grade 10 to Grade 12. These are important achievements in the ongoing process of curriculum reform. We believe that curriculum reform is at the heart of postapartheid South Africa since the school system we inherited was at variance with the socioeconomic challenges of our country. Also, as our country is moving towards having a knowledge and skills-based economy in the production of goods and services, it has become a necessary condition that our educational structure correspond with the economic structure.

We are also experiencing a shift in the sectors that drive economic changes. As a consequence, our tertiary sector’s activities are becoming more important than primary and secondary sectors. For example, the tertiary sector’s contribution to gross value added has grown from 55% in 1999 to 63% in 2001.

Accordingly, the curriculum changes that have been made through the revised curriculum statement seek to align the content of our school system with the structural changes in our economy and the values embedded in our Constitution. This is a necessary condition to achieve the demands of global competitiveness.

Much has been done by our Government, contrary to the view depicted that we have done nothing since 1999. We are on course. We have brought about necessary changes in our school system so that we are able to produce the necessary skills. [Applause.]

Similarly, the publication of the ``Manifesto on Values, Education and Democracy’’ by the Minister of Education in August 2001 augurs well for the integration of our constitutional values into an emerging democratic education system such as ours.

Education is not only a process of the transmission of knowledge and skills, but, equally important, it is a process of socialisation. It plays an important role in generating and nurturing values. The apartheid education system, in the guise of Christian National Education, inculcated the values of racial inferiority, racism, uncritical acceptance of authority, obedience and conformity.

We were told that a black child was not fit to study mathematics and science, hence the problem we are having at the moment. I remember at one institution where, if there were 300 students doing course 1 of science, the lecturer would tell you, ``If I have 10 in course 3, you will be lucky’’. That is the kind of system we come from. So education has to inculcate values that are consistent with our emerging democracy.

We have also made progress as far as the social welfare system is concerned. In the area of social security, we have remained steadfast and honest to the commitments we made in 1999. These include the realisation of comprehensive social security and extended social grant coverage through targeting the most vulnerable groups, especially the poor, the disabled and the youth. We believe that targeting ensures that only the needy get benefits.

We welcomed the announcement by the President that Cabinet would complete this work, which has now been completed by the inquiry into comprehensive social security. This is welcome. We are also seeing a noticeable increase in the uptake of welfare grants from R1 million in April 2000 to over R1,5 million in April 2002. We have also made progress in that we have achieved what we promised to do in order to expand services to benefit more people.

What is also pleasing is the change in the social welfare system to a more developmental approach. We appreciate the fact that this will include self- sustaining poverty eradication projects. For example, in the 2001-02 financial year the Department of Social Development allocated 30% of its poverty relief fund to 30 development nodes identified in the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy. This development focus will go a long way in decreasing dependency on social grants.

We welcome the extended definition of those vulnerable in our society, as pronounced by the President last Friday. In addition to the aged, young and disabled, we will also target individuals who are unskilled and those with low levels of education in general, with the aim of making them self- reliant through empowerment programmes.

In this regard, we want to express our appreciation for this bold intervention by our Government and we are convinced that it will have the desirable outcome. This will certainly increase the potential of these citizens to become normal participants in the economy, thereby enhancing their self-esteem.

Most importantly, this intervention constitutes a direct attack on the source of poverty, namely unequal distribution of knowledge and skills. The cycle of poverty that characterises our dual economy is not a natural phenomenon that will break up naturally. Bold steps are required, and the bold leadership provided by our Government in this regard is highly recommended.

We have also made great progress as far as our health system is concerned. In this regard, I wish to point out that unlike in the past when huge resources from health were directed to research and metropolitans, we have now reprioritised so that these resources and facilities go to rural areas. This will benefit the majority of our people. [Applause.]

I have pointed out that we have made progress in terms of what we promised the people of this country in 1999. Today I can say quite openly that we have succeeded in laying a foundation for further development. We have a sound social infrastructure. The resources that we have invested to develop a sound social infrastructure will go a long way in improving economic growth.

There is obviously a circular causation between economic growth and social development. While the economy is growing, as the President pointed out - although not to our satisfaction - we have to increase our social spending.

With regard to the question of fighting poverty, we have put in place short- term strategies to deal with poverty relief. But, most importantly, when our people’s health improves and they become educated, we are in a position to ensure that in the long term we are able to increase our economic development. Equally important is that this is not a one-way direction. As the economy improves, so we are able to develop our people. And as our people improve, they will be able to bring in new skills, and we will then be able to attack poverty directly. [Applause.]

Comrade Nqcobo pointed out yesterday that what we need is to have highly skilled people. Our strategy and our approach is to fight poverty directly. It is not a trickle-down approach, hence we invest enormously in our social infrastructure. [Applause.]

I just want to end by saying that some of the most irresponsible statements have been made from that side of the House. An attack has been made on our President in that he wastes a lot of time on global issues rather than domestic issues. This planet has become very small, it is a global village. The interdependence that we have today does not allow us to go back to the period of isolation of the apartheid days if we are to develop. [Applause.]

Some of the economic problems that we have, have to do with the economic order in the world. We don’t want to be passive; to be people who are acted upon by other people who want to be active subjects. We want to be influenced as much as we want to influence. We cannot forever remain objects that are acted upon. If we are to progress, we have to change the global order. We have to change and influence the United Nations. We have to influence other governing structures. We cannot remain passive. We are active, and that is what we are doing.

Some hon members from that side have been saying that time and again we use the words integrated'' andcomprehensive’’. You have to understand that if we are to deal, in a sustainable way, with the question of growth and development, we need to deal with the fundamentals. It is also critically important that we are able to understand that development requires that we think systematically.

Systems thinking is very, very important. You cannot talk about health without talking about transport, without talking about other things. That is what systemic thinking is about. If we are to develop and progress, we need to think broadly because one aspect affects another - there is interdependency.

So if we want to address the question of health, social security and other aspects, we need to take a broad picture and understand that these issues are interdependent. That is what systems thinking is all about. You cannot think of just one small part and tinker with the system without taking into account the whole system.

So we are on course and we hope that this year we will get a response. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Business suspended at 12:40 and resumed at 15:01.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, hon members, guests, members of the diplomatic corps, first of all I would like to thank hon members for their contributions during this debate. We have noted the constructive suggestions made by some of the members and will consider them.

For example, I agree with the hon Wilma Newhoudt-Druchen about the important matters she raised with regard to the challenges around the issue of disability.

We will intensify our focus on this issue throughout this African Decade of Disabled People, and beyond. Surely, our Government will have to give the necessary support to the Deaf Federation of South Africa in its bid to host the important Fifteenth World Congress of the World Federation of the Deaf in 2007.

We will also follow up on the suggestions made by the hon Nkosinathi Mthethwa on the matter of youth development. I would like to assure him that within the next four weeks the Government will consider two important documents relating to our youth.

One of these will deal with the long-outstanding policy framework for the establishment of a national youth service. The other, prepared by the National Youth Commission and the Umsobomvu Fund, will cover a comprehensive programme of action for youth development and empowerment. [Applause.]

We have already intervened with the government of Zimbabwe to deal with the issue of property owned by South Africans. The matter of the conclusion of a bilateral agreement with Zimbabwe on the protection of investment in both countries has been discussed and is under consideration.

The hon Johnny de Lange also made an important contribution to the discussion that must take place about the crucial matter of the transformation of the judiciary. The Government will carefully consider the views he expressed.

The hon Derek Hanekom made the critical point that all of us, both citizens and Government, need creative thinking'' with regard to the challenge of employment creation and the eradication of poverty. I trust that all of us will respond to this and think outside the box’’, to use a common expression.

I would also like to thank the hon Kader Asmal for drawing the attention of the House and the country to the fact that this month marks the 25th anniversary of the passing away of a great African patriot, Robert Mangaliso Sobukwe. I join him in the tribute he made to this son of our people. Hopefully our national Parliament will take time to salute him on the 25th anniversary of his death, February 27, as we all should.

Clearly we will have to follow up on the important remarks made by the hon members Musa Zondi and Suzanne Vos, which bear on the important matter of the responsibilities of the citizen.

The hon Nqaba Ngcobo will be pleased to know that to implement our biotechnology strategy, only this month Government opened three regional biotechnology innovation centres in the Western Cape, Gauteng and KwaZulu- Natal, focusing on such areas as human health, industrial biotechnology, food security and agricultural production.

I was pleased that the hon Baleka Mbete, the Deputy Speaker, drew our attention to the important matter of Freedom Park. I trust that the hon members will take up her suggestion to sensitise our people about this important national monument.

Other hon members made equally important proposals, which the Government will consider carefully.

Yesterday the hon Dr Mangosuthu Buthelezi made an appeal for ``people of goodwill and representatives of our people, irrespective of political divisions or allegiances’’ to come together to address various matters of concern that he had raised.

Clearly, all reasonable people will agree with this proposal. As this House knows, the national Government includes Ministers and Deputy Ministers drawn from four political organisations. We did this precisely to bring together the people to whom Dr Buthelezi referred, to act together on matters of concern to our people as a whole.

The hon Dr Buthelezi also mentioned the need for us to move away from the mutual suspicions of the past. I am certain that this outcome can only be achieved in the practice, in the process of working together in the manner suggested by the hon Dr Buthelezi. However, we must also recognise the fact that as we sit in this House, we represent different parties and different schools of ideological and political thought. Out of this come different responses to the challenges facing our country. It may very well be that, in the main, all of us agree on the identification of many of our national problems.

But as the debate demonstrated, we have different solutions for these problems, reflecting our different ideological and political positions. There is nothing either wrong or unacceptable about this.

Our democratic system gives the necessary space for all these views to be expressed and pursued. It also gives the possibility to all political formations to win the support of the people and thus form the government of our country.

I must assume from this that, despite the commendable call of the hon Dr Buthelezi for us to come together irrespective of political divisions, none of the parties represented here, including the IFP, will relax their efforts to win power. [Laughter.]

The hon Tony Leon, the Leader of the Opposition, stated this matter frankly when he said that the DP and the IFP, which he described as the real opposition'', had formed a partnership jointly to exercise power locally and provincially in KwaZulu-Natal’’, as he put it.

He promised the House that this partnership ``must and will build’’ on this foundation, obviously to capture power both beyond the province of KwaZulu- Natal, and at the national level. This is perfectly natural and normal political behaviour. It has nothing to do with a gathering of people of goodwill, of which the hon Dr Buthelezi spoke. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

I make these comments to say that the consolidation of our democracy and the achievement of the goal of reconstruction and development do not require that we should try to force ourselves into a false consensus. The Government will not be persuaded to adopt policies it believes are wrong, merely to please some, by creating the space for the implementation of policies that have failed to win the support of the people. [Applause.]

Some of the hon members spoke eloquently to advance a particular ideological approach to our economic development. Accordingly, they urged privatisation, deregulation, labour market flexibility, tax reduction, the abolition of foreign exchange control, and the abandonment of the developmental role of the state, giving it what was described as an indicative role'', on the basis thatthe state is the problem’’.

We do not agree and will not support the proposition that informs this approach - that we should rely solely and exclusively on the market to solve the problems facing our people. [Applause.] We are not market fundamentalists and will obviously not seek to build a national consensus on the basis of the ideology and practice of market fundamentalism.

Very regularly in our country, we see different interpretations of what is happening in our society, based on the variety of our ideological and political positions. Thus every statistic becomes a matter of ideological and political debate, depending on where we stand in the political spectrum. Some of us delight in falsely presenting our country as being the worst in the world with regard to the most negative antisocial activities.

During the debate, the assertion was repeated boldly, that ``there is much greater poverty today than there was in 1994’’, and that:

… life is no better now than it was in 1994. For many people, in spite of political freedom, life is actually worse.

Neither of these statements is true. This House would serve the country well if it allowed those who insist on these conclusions to present to the House and the country such information as they may have to substantiate these claims.

In this regard, all of us will have to pay attention to the remarks made by the Chief Whip of the Majority Party, the hon Nkosinathi Nhleko.

During the debate, the view was also advanced that the policies we are implementing to build a nonracial South Africa are resulting in the sustenance of what used to be called ``white fears’’ and a feeling of marginalisation, especially among the Afrikaners. In this regard reference was made to such issues as language, culture, affirmative action, black economic empowerment and Zimbabwe.

The Government is aware of its responsibility to all the people of our country. It works within the framework set by our Constitution, which includes correcting the racial imbalances we inherited. In carrying out this work, we strive for the closest co-operation possible with all our people, including their organisations.

We will persist with this work, remaining sensitive to the feelings, aspirations and hopes of all our people, and the injunction that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white. Accordingly, we agree fully with the late Prof Piet Cillié, as quoted by the hon Renier Schoeman, when he said, ``true patriotism is love for a country which encompasses the dreams of all its citizens’’.

We are at all times ready closely to examine and change any and all parts of the work of the Government that might not encompass, in a balanced and inclusive way, the dreams of all our citizens. The Government must and will keep its doors open to all South Africans who wish to express concern that our policies do not encompass the dreams of all our citizens, in a balanced and inclusive manner.

At the same time I would like to make the point that we have a common responsibility not to frighten any of our people by presenting them with a false apocalypse. [Applause.] The task to reassure all our people about their future as South Africans, equal to any other South African, is a common responsibility that belongs to all of us. Without saying that any one of us has done this, I would like to urge that none of us should go around scaring people, and then urge the President to reassure those who have been frightened. [Applause.]

I am certain that if more of us spoke out as the hon Dirk Bakker did earlier today, we would have fewer people who entertain fears about their future as South Africans.

Quite incorrectly, some hon members beat loud drums about some matters they said were not addressed in the state of the nation address. Frankly, this was puzzling. In this regard, I would like to thank the hon Dr Stanley Mogoba for helping to unravel this mystery. [Interjections.]

Hon members will remember his remark that the address was above our heads and that of the nation''. [Laughter.] He went on to say that on his part, he understood it better when one reads and re-reads the speech’’. [Laughter.] Clearly some among us did not do what he did, merely to read the address. There was no attempt whatsoever to speak above the heads of the hon members and the nation.

However, we must take the matter to heart that we should not speak in a manner that results in this unintended consequence. [Laughter.] At the same time, I assume that it is the responsibility of all hon members to seek to understand the written documents tabled in this House, whoever tables them, and thus obviate unnecessary debate driven by ignorance and prejudice. [Applause.]

I would like to thank various members of the Government, such as the hon Ministers Sankie Mthembi-Mahanyele, Geraldine Fraser-Moleketi, Kader Asmal and Penuell Maduna, who provided details of the Government programmes we mentioned, with which the hon members should be familiar, about which the charge was made that we had not adequately addressed them.

However, as with other matters in the past, I suspect that the beating of the drums reflected differences with the policies and programmes of the Government rather than an economy of words on our part.

With regard to the matter of Iraq, which hon members Aziz Pahad and Pallo Jordan have addressed extensively, a most unfortunate suggestion has also been made that we should determine our positions on the basis of venal considerations that have nothing to do with principle. It was specifically suggested that with regard to the United States, our behaviour should be governed by such economic benefits as derive from AGOA, the African Growth and Opportunity Act.

Our Government maintains very good relations with the government of the United States. At all levels, the US administration has interacted with us in an open, co-operative and supportive manner. At all times, it has respected our right to hold our own views on any matter. When we have differed on any issue, there has never been any suggestion that it would starve us to force us to submit to its views.

On the matter of Iraq, we are entirely at one with the US and the UN that Iraq should be free of weapons of mass destruction. We welcomed and supported the decision of the government of the United States to refer this matter to the UN Security Council, to ensure its peaceful and multilateral resolution. We have done and will do what we can to contribute to the achievement of this outcome. Last Saturday our people, together with millions across the globe, demonstrated in our streets to express their support for these results.

It is strange that some among us present all of this as being anti- American. We have neither the desire nor the intention to become enemies of the United States. I think that it is also a most unfortunate representation of the United States government that some should peddle the suggestion that this administration is standing by to inflict harm on our people, if we do not say ``ja baas!’’ - allegedly in the national interest!

Some in this House have sought to belittle the importance of the Iraq question, falsely claiming that a peaceful, multilateral resolution of this issue constitutes closing ranks around Saddam Hussein'', and that in any case, Iraq is far from our country. At the same time, some of these very same hon members have made bold to saywe must make it our responsibility to promote and, if necessary, force democracy and freedom in our own region’’.

I would like to take this opportunity to assure our neighbours and the peoples of the rest of Africa that the government we lead has no great power pretensions. We claim no right to impose our will on any independent country. [Applause.]

We will not force anything on anybody but will act within the context of our international agreements, approved by this Parliament, which oblige us to respect the obligations that fall on us in the context of our bilateral relations, SADC, the African Union, the Non-Aligned Movement, the Commonwealth and the United Nations. Whatever we may think of ourselves, none of these gives us the unilateral right to force anything on any other independent country.

Let me restate some positions that we have presented to the House and the nation, last week and earlier.

We have the necessary policies and programmes further to deepen the process of the reconstruction and development of our country. We have the resources to accelerate this process. Improved capacity does exist within the Public Service to achieve this objective. We have the necessary basic information to determine relatively precisely what needs to be done.

Having carefully considered all these matters, the Government has determined that our central task is to respond successfully to the challenge of the effective implementation of our policies and programmes.

This constitutes the central focus of the work of Government during this final year of the first decade of liberation. Nothing whatsoever will divert us from this goal.

With regard to this task and commitment, I would like to draw the attention of hon members to one particular issue that we raised in the state of the nation address. Let me repeat what I said then.

With regard to the accomplishment of the task of ensuring a better life for all, we must make the observation that the Government is perfectly conscious of the fact that there are many in our society who are unable to benefit directly from whatever our economy is able to offer. Obviously, this includes those on pension and the very young.

But it also includes people who are unskilled and those with low levels of education in general. This reflects the structural fault in our economy and society as a result of which we have a dual economy and society. The one is modern and relatively well developed. The other is characterised by underdevelopment and an entrenched crisis of poverty.

We have to respond to the needs of the fellow South Africans trapped in the latter society, in a focused and dedicated manner, to extricate them from their condition. The expansion in social provision must reach this sector of our society, to relieve the poverty and suffering afflicting these masses of our people.

As we will indicate later, other Government interventions will also focus on this sector in a particular way. Critically, some of these interventions must aim at ensuring that as many as possible of those who fall within this category move out of the trap within which they are caught.

Accordingly, the Government must act to ensure that we reduce the number of people dependent on social welfare, increasing the numbers that rely for their livelihood on normal participation in the economy. This is also especially relevant to the accomplishment of the goal of enhancing the dignity of every South African.

That was what I said on Friday. Some hon members have commented on this extremely important matter that relates to a large section of our population, that was once callously described as the surplus people.

These valued South Africans are concentrated in the urban and rural development nodes identified in our urban renewal and rural development programmes, and other areas of our country.

There are many negative features that characterise this section of our population. It suffers from a high level of unemployment. Many among its ranks are uneducated and unskilled. It suffers from widespread and entrenched poverty.

It is therefore victim to the entire spectrum of diseases of poverty and underdevelopment, including those associated with immune deficiency.

It is also subject to the social ills associated with poverty and human despair, such as particular crimes, including murder, the abuse of women and children, and other crimes against the person, as well as alcohol and drug abuse.

It is in these areas that we find the concentrated expression of the challenges we face with regard to the most vulnerable in our society: the children, the youth, women, the elderly and people with disabilities.

In the end, everything we said in the state of the nation address, and everything that some of the hon members stated during the debate about pushing back the frontiers of poverty, and expanding access to a better life for all, and the complex of social, economic and administrative initiatives we spoke of, must translate into changing the lives of those of our people who were previously described as the surplus people.

The Government is convinced that because of what we have achieved through focused and painstaking work over the past few years, we are now able and have the responsibility especially to attend to the very specific needs of those that the old society condemned to a hopeless life at the very periphery of misery.

As we indicated in the state of the nation address, all departments and spheres of government will co-operate to meet this and other challenges on a multisector and integrated basis.

Once more, the discharge of this historic national responsibility demands that all our people should unite in action in the spirit of Letsema, Vukuzenzele and the new patriotism to realise what can and must be achieved to give hope to those who despair.

Hopefully, the people of goodwill about whom the hon Dr Buthelezi spoke, will become part of this army of architects, whose reward will be the material and spiritual liberation of the wretched of the earth.

Later this month, the hon Sankie Mthembi-Mahanyele will relinquish both her parliamentary seat and her place in Government, to take up her duties at the ANC headquarters. I would like to take this opportunity to thank her most sincerely for the outstanding work she has done as Minister of Housing. [Applause.] We will miss her contributions as a member of the Cabinet and wish her success in her new task.

Before this week closes, a number of distinguished South Africans will travel to Iraq. I thank them most sincerely for agreeing to undertake this journey. Between them they will be able to address all matters that relate to nuclear, chemical and biological weapons of mass destruction, missile systems, nonproliferation and disarmament, affecting all weapons of mass destruction.

They have worked with the UN Conference on Disarmament and the international bodies responsible for the enforcement of the Nuclear Non- Proliferation Treaty and the Chemical and Biological Weapons Conventions.

As they leave our shores, we wish them Godspeed, confident that they will contribute everything they can to help Iraq fully to respond proactively to the obligations imposed by the UN Security Council Resolution 1441.

They will travel to Baghdad as representatives of the prayers for world peace of the peoples of Africa, the Non-Aligned Movement, the rest of the world, as well as ourselves.

Hopefully, what they will do, by freely sharing their invaluable knowledge and experience, and facilitating the work both of the UN weapons inspectors and the government of Iraq, will be to bring us back from the brink of war, while helping to ensure that Iraq is truly free of weapons of mass destruction.

I am certain that they undertake their journey with the very best wishes and support of this House, of all South Africans of goodwill, and all representatives of our people, irrespective of our political divisions and allegiances. [Applause.] They are Mr Deon Smit, Col Ben Steyn, Dr Philip Coleman, Mr Super Moloi, Mr Daan van Beek, Mr Pieter Goosen and Mr Tom Makrum. [Applause.]

Once more, I wish our national Parliament success as it commences its work during this important year in the peaceful evolution of our country.

Thank you, Madam Speaker and hon members. [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: Hon members, on our behalf I wish to thank the President. Thank you, Mr President, for coming here and for this debate.

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 15:32. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces: Papers:

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:

 Government Notice No R 1299 published in Government  Gazette  No  23943
 dated 18 October 2002: Amendment of the Magistrates' Courts Rules, made
 in terms of section 6 of the Rules Board for Courts of  Law  Act,  1985
 (Act No 107 of 1985).

1. The Minister of Housing:

 Report and Financial Statements of the Thubelitsha Homes for 2001-2002.

1. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry:

 (a)    Government Notice No 1288 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     23936 dated 11 October  2002:  Extension  of  time  for  a  General
     Authorisation in terms of section 36 of  the  National  Water  Act,
     1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


 (b)    Government Notice No 1347 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     23993 dated 31 October 2002: Prohibition on the making of fires  in
     open air: Districts  of  Clanwilliam,  Piketberg,  Ceres,  Tulbagh,
     Worcester, Paarl, Stellenbosch, Strand and Somerset West,  made  in
     terms of the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).


 (c)    Government Notice No 1348 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     23993 dated 31 October 2002: Prohibition on the making of fires  in
     open air: Districts of Swellendam and Montagu,  made  in  terms  of
     the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).


 (d)    Government Notice No 1349 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     23993 dated 31 October 2002: Prohibition on the making of fires  in
     open air: Western Cape, made in terms of the Forest Act, 1984  (Act
     No 122 of 1984).


 (e)    Government Notice No 1359 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     24002 dated 8 November 2002:  Transformation  of  the  Mkuze  Falls
     Irrigation Board,  Division  Ngotshe,  Province  of  KwaZulu-Natal,
     into the Mkuze Falls Water User Association, Water Management  Area
     Number 6, Province of KwaZulu-Natal, made in terms of the  National
     Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


 (f)    Government Notice No 1395 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     24042 dated 15 November 2002: Determining of an interest  rate,  in
     terms of section 59(3)(a) of the National Water Act, 1998  (Act  No
     36 of 1998).


 (g)    Government Notice No 1439 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     24060 dated 11 November 2002: Release of  land  from  the  Dukuduku
     State Forest, in terms of section 50(3)  of  the  National  Forests
     Act, 1998 (Act No 84 of 1998).


 (h)    Government Notice No 1441 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     24065 dated 22  November  2002:  Establishment  of  the  Rondebosch
     River Water User  Association,  Division  Plettenberg  Bay  in  the
     Province of the Western Cape,  Water  Management  Area  Number  16,
     made in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
 (i)    Government Notice No 1481 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     24093 dated 29 November 2002: Establishment of the  Sand-Vet  Water
     User  Association,  Districts  of  Senekal,  Winburg,  Ventersburg,
     Virginia,   Welkom,   Wesselsbron,   Hoopstad,    Theunissen    and
     Bultfontein, Water Management Area Number 9, Free  State  Province,
     made in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


 (j)    Government Notice No 1519 published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     24116 dated 6 December 2002: Transformation of the Vaal  Irrigation
     Board, Districts of Kimberley and Herbert, Northern Cape  Province,
     into the Orange Vaal Water User Association, Water Management  Area
     Number 14, Northern Cape Province, made in terms  of  the  National
     Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


 (k)    Government Notice No 2 published in Government Gazette No  24215
     dated 3 January 2003: Notice in  terms  of  section  50(3)  of  the
     National Forests Act, 1998 (Act No 84 of 1998), release of part  of
     the Hangklip Plantation which is no longer required  for  forestry,
     made in terms of the Act.


 (l)    Government Notice No 3 published in Government Gazette No  24215
     dated 3 January 2003: Notice in  terms  of  section  50(3)  of  the
     National Forests Act, 1998 (Act No 84 of 1998), release  of  Blyde,
     George, Timbadola, Wemmershoek and Stutterheim  sawmills  as  state
     forests, made in terms of the Act.


 (m)    Government Notice No 84 published in Government Gazette No 23717
     dated 17 January 2003: Board of Bloem Water: Extension  of  service
     area, made in terms of the Water Services Act, 1997 (Act No 108  of
     1997).


 (n)    Government Notice No 103  published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     24256 dated 17 January 2003: Proposal for the Establishment of  the
     Inkomati  Catchment  Management  Area,  Province   of   Mpumalanga,
     Inkomati Water Management Area,  made  in  terms  of  the  National
     Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


 (o)    Government Notice No 106  published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     24260 dated 17 January 2003: Invitation to submit written  comments
     on proposed list of  protected  tree  species  under  the  National
     Forests Act, 1998 (Act No 84 of 1998).


 (p)    Government Notice No 124  published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     24264 dated  24  January  2003:  Establishment  of  the  Boschkloof
     Irrigation Scheme Water User Association, Magisterial  District  of
     Sekhukhune, Province of Limpopo, Water Management  Area  Number  4,
     made in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).


 (q)    Government Notice No 125  published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     24264 dated 24 January 2003: Transformation of the  Worcester  East
     Major, Hex River, Nuy River, Overhex,  Nonna,  Aan  De  Doorns  and
     Nooitgedacht Irrigation Boards, Division of Worcester, Province  of
     Western Cape, into  the  Worcester  East  Water  User  Association,
     Water Management Area Number 18,  Province  of  the  Western  Cape,
     made in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).