THURSDAY, 27 MARCH 2003 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:02.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayer or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                            ANNOUNCEMENT

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I have to announce that the following members have today left the Democratic Party and joined the Democratic Alliance: Mr K M Andrew, Mr B G Bell, Mrs G M Borman, Mr A J Botha, Mr N J Clelland- Stokes, Mr M L Da Camara, Mr I O Davidson, Dr J T Delport, Mr C W Eglin, Mr M J Ellis, Mr S B Farrow, Mr D H M Gibson, Mr V C Gore, Mr G A J Grobler, Mr R J Heine, Mrs S V Kalyan, Mr N J J van R Koornhof, Mr T D Lee, Mr A J Leon, Mr D K Maluleke, Mr G B D McIntosh, Mr E K Moorcroft, Mr R S Ntuli, Mr S E Opperman, Brig Gen P J Schalkwyk, Mr J Selfe, Ms J A Semple, Mr W J Seremane, Ms M Smuts, Adv P S Swart, Ms R Taljaard, Mr J L Theron and Mr M Waters. [Applause.]

               CAR OF THE YEAR AWARD TO VOLKSWAGEN SA

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mnr C H F GREYLING: Mevrou die Adjunkspeaker, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:

Dat die Huis -

(1) kennis neem dat Volkswagen SA vanjaar vir die eerste keer die gesogte Motor van die Jaar-toekenning gewen het, vir sy Polo 1,4 TDI-model;

(2) glo hierdie prestasie kan slegs deur harde werk en toewyding behaal word; en

3) Volkswagen SA gelukwens met hierdie eer wat hom te beurt geval het. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)

[Mr C H F GREYLING: Madam Deputy Speaker, I move without notice:

That the House -

(1) notes that Volkswagen South Africa for the first time won the coveted Car of the Year Award for the Polo 1,4TDI model;

(2) believes that this achievement is the result of hard work and dedication; and

(3) congratulates Volkswagen SA with this honour bestowed on it.]

Agreed to. KILLING OF CIVILIANS IN IRAQ

                        (Member's Statement)

Ms F HAJAIG (ANC): Deputy Speaker, today we are facing a war that most people in this world do not want. The majority of peace-loving peoples are making their voices heard. Despite this the US, the UK and the Australian governments have gone ahead with their plans to invade Iraq. Bombs fall and inevitably kill the aged, women and children despite the claim that the US forces target military and government buildings only. We continually see civilian casualties. As US forces approach Baghdad, more and more civilians will be maimed and killed.

A medical doctor from the organisation Medicins Sans Frontières commented that Iraqi civilians stand no chance at all, because they will die outright in a bomb explosion or, if injured, will die anyway. This is because the hospitals are so poorly equipped with medicines and lack the necessary hospital equipment. We are opposed to this war, because the US is undermining the legitimate structure of global governance, the United Nations. The Bush government is hellbent on colonising Iraq, no matter what the cost. It is clear that this war is not about weapons of mass destruction, but rather about the control of Iraqi oil flows and indeed about the subjugation of the Iraqi people. The economy of postwar Iraq is already decided upon by United States and United Kingdom companies. This war will not only hurt the Iraqi people, but will also destabilise the whole region and the prime source of oil energy, which will, in turn, affect the global economy.

Africa is embarking on its renaissance. Our Nepad programme will be jeopardised and this war will further delay the reconstruction and development of Africa.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I regret your time has expired, hon member.

Ms F HAJAIG: Let the voice of peace be heard. Stop the war now. [Applause.]

                      COLLAPSE OF SAAMBOU BANK

                        (Member's Statement)

Ms R TALJAARD (DA): Madam Deputy Speaker, the questions surrounding the collapse of Saambou Bank are multiplying by the day. Were there regulatory failures? Was there criminal conduct? Was there bad corporate governance undetected or unaddressed by the regulators owing to a lack of powers or inaction? Are there similar problems at other banks in South Africa?

The DA is deeply disappointed by the decision of the SA Reserve Bank not to accede to our request to release its investigative reports into the circumstances surrounding the collapse of Saambou Bank and the use of sections 42 and 44 of the Promotion of Access to Information Act to refuse access. We believe that every Saambou depositor has a right to know what happened, as does every South African taxpayer who will help foot the R4 billion bill revealed in the Budget review.

We believe every South African has the right to be reassured that the banking sector is soundly run in terms of principles of good corporate governance and adequately regulated to comply with these principles. [Applause.]

Mr A MLANGENI: Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise on a point of order. With regard to the announcement you have just made about certain members of the DP having left the DP to join the DA, are we to understand that the DP no longer exists in this House and that what exists now is the DA?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, that is in fact not a point of order. Anyway, you are correct. [Laughter.]

             CONSTRUCTION AND MAINTENANCE OF RURAL ROADS

                        (Member's Statement)

Prince N E ZULU (IFP): Deputy Speaker, it is appreciated that the Government is doing everything possible to maintain and improve the country’s road infrastructure which stretches over half a million kilometres. This task is enormous and cash-consuming in a manner not always realised and appreciated by us road users. We do not always appreciate that the toll road levy is actually for the upkeep of our roads in order to compare favourably with other developing nations.

The daunting question is that of local and rural roads and, perhaps, of even those areas which are roadless, yet used by some means of transport. It is not clear whether the construction of new rural roads rests exclusively with the local authority. If so, where do they draw the budget for such purposes?

Provincial and national roads are maintained and serviced by government- instituted agencies which are working efficiently and professionally. Can the same be said of local rural roads?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Before I take the next hon member, I would like to recognise the presence of 14 members of the German parliament. You are welcome, hon members. [Applause.]

                CONGRATULATIONS TO LANGA HIGH SCHOOL

                        (Member's Statement)

Mrs Z A KOTA (ANC): Deputy Speaker, I wish to congratulate the Langa High School in my constituency here in Cape Town on their continued improvement in matric results. They excelled and hosted the global classroom programme with the Witteboom High School. Thanks go to the principal of Langa High, Mr Mooragan, and the principal of Witteboom, Mr Esau, and the programme co- ordinator, Mr Stuart, and the staff.

Two weeks ago, Langa High had 16 students for five weeks from Japan, Britain, Sweden and other parts of the globe. They shared experiences in culture, technology and communication, to mention just a few. This is indeed a positive step, especially in the era of globalisation when we need global citizens. To have young people engaged in such programmes is a positive step, and we call upon other schools to emulate this example.

I had the opportunity to bid farewell to these students on behalf of the Langa community. It was a moving occasion when both international and South African students exhibited their cultures.

This project offers not only the opportunity to build bridges across the globe, but also the opportunity to address the challenges faced by our education system. It is time for true partnerships between Government, the business sector and our communities to build a better South Africa. [Applause.]

                 ABOLITION OF QUOTA SYSTEM IN RUGBY

                        (Member's Statement)

Mnr S SIMMONS (Nuwe NP): Adjunkspeaker, die Nuwe NP verwelkom die uitspraak van die Minister van Sport en Ontspanning dat kwotas nie meer nodig is vir die Springbokspan nie. Dit moet verwelkom word om twee redes. Eerstens verwyder dit die kwotadebat uit rugby, wat vir baie mense ‘n vloekwoord geword het, en tweedens wys dit dat spelers van kleur op meriete in die span hoort.

Hierdie is ook ‘n aanduiding dat die SA Rugbyvoetbalunie, Sarvu, se ontwikkelingsprogramme werk, en hy moet daarmee gelukgewens word. Rugby dien nou ook as voorbeeld dat die punt bereik kan word waar dit nie meer nodig is om politieke invloed in sport uit te oefen nie. Die rugbypubliek wil net sien dat hulle span wen, ongeag wat die kleur van die spelers is. Rugby speel hier ‘n leidende rol wat hopelik met tyd kan deursyfer na ander lewensterreine. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)

[Mr S SIMMONS (New NP): Deputy Speaker, the New NP welcomes the announcement by the Minister of Sport and Recreation that quotas are no longer necessary for the Springbok team. This must be welcomed for two reasons. In the first place it removes the quota debate from rugby, something that has become a swear-word to many people, and in the second place it shows that players of colour belong to the team according to merit.

This is also an indication that the development programmes of the SA Rugby Football Union, Sarfu, are working, and it should be congratulated on this. Rugby now also serves as an example indicating that the point can be reached where it is no longer necessary to use political influence in sport. The rugby public only wants to see their team win, regardless of the colour of the players. Rugby is playing a leading role here which, hopefully, can, with time, filter down to other spheres of life. I thank you.]

             SEVERAL ANC MEMBERS CROSS FLOOR TO JOIN UDM

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr B H HOLOMISA (UDM): Madam Deputy Speaker and hon members, in the past two weeks the UDM has received numerous new members across the country. [Interjections.] The greatest majority have been card-carrying members of the ANC. Just last week in Qumbu, 300 ANC members joined the UDM. On Human Rights Day, another 212 ANC members from KZN joined the UDM. [Interjections.] In both these cases, they have brought with them their branch leaders.

Having accepted that the rules have changed, the UDM is happy to welcome to its Bisho caucus the former deputy leader of the New NP in the Eastern Cape, Mr Tyrone Liberty.

The ANC has abused this floor-crossing period to sow division and false claims. Recent claims made at their Cape Town press conference of mass defection from the UDM are wrong. No such thing has happened, nor will it happen.

Much of the floor-crossing that is currently occurring, however, does not reflect the wishes of the voters or any real shift in the political landscape. Equally troubling is the fact that most of these floor-crossings perpetuate race-based politics. [Interjections.] Niwuvile umlayezo. [You got the message.] [Time expired.]

                      AWARD TO MRS NORIA MABASA

                        (Member's Statement)

Mufumakadzi T J TSHIVHASE (ANC): Mulangadzulo, kha vhupo hanga ha Venḓa mufumakadzi Vho Mme Mabasa Noria vho pfufhiwa nga ``Silver Order of Bob at the Presidential Award’’. Ha vha ndi muthu wa mahayani nahone o shayaho - muthu zwawe a shumesaho. Miṅwe ya mishumo yawe zwa zwino yo vheiwa Pretoria Union Buildings na kha Muhasho wa Vhutsila na Mvelele.

Phoḽisi ya ANC ndi u maanḓafhadza vhathu zwavho u bveledza vhukoni kha zwa ikonomi ya shango ḽino. Ndi ngoho zwauri ho vulea talente nnzhi Afurika Tshipembe. Vhafumakadzi vha ṱuṱtuwedziwa nga tsumbo iyi na uri mashudu mavhuya, muhasho u ḓo fhaṱa fhethu ha u vhumbela na u vhaḓela. Hezwi zwi ḓo shandukisa ikonomi ya muḓi wa Tshino na vhahura vhawo. Tshanduko dzo thoma u vhonala kha vhafumakadzi u bva nga 1994, sa izwi vhathu zwavho vha tshi vho bvelela khathihi na u ḓivhonadza ho bvelelaho.

Vhathu vha Tshino vha nga takalesa vhukuma u vhona Minisiṱa wa zwa Madzingu vha tshi nga kona u swikisa mulaedza na u vula fhethu ha zwa vhutsila, uri nga thandela dzavho dza LED, tshomedzo dzi swikelelwe. Ndi a livhuwa. [U Vhanda Zwanḓa.] (Translation of Tshivhenḓa speech follows.)

[Mrs T J TSHIVHASE: Chairperson, in my village in Venda Mrs Noria Mabasa was awarded the ``Silver Order of Bob at the Presidential Award’’. She is a person from a rural area who lives in poverty - an ordinary person who works very hard. Some of her works are currently exhibited in Pretoria at the Union Buildings and the Department of Arts and Culture. The policy of the ANC is to empower ordinary people in order to develop the economy of this country. The truth is that there are so many talented people in South Africa.

Women are encouraged by this aspect, and luckily the department will erect a building for pottery and wood carving. This will change the village of Tshino and its neighbourhood. With effect from 1994, we have seen changes in women. Ordinary people are now developing.

The people of Tshino would be very much pleased if the Minister in the province could convey the message and open the place where arts will be practised, in order for them to access resources by way of LED projects. I thank you. [Applause.]]

                    DISTRICT HOSPITAL CONDITIONS

                        (Member's Statement)

Ms C DUDLEY (ACDP): Deputy Speaker, there is mounting concern about a number of issues which combine to make work in district hospitals increasingly difficult and stressful, particularly for senior medical staff. The constant turnover of interns and community service doctors in obstetrics and gynaecology units in district hospitals, where there is only one senior person, is demoralising and exhausting.

The steady decline in the number of experienced midwives as a result of foreign recruitment, the drift of personnel to city hospitals and the private sector, as well as the lack of security for staff in rural clinics where support systems have been dismantled and not adequately replaced, leave staff feeling isolated and exposed, both academically and personally.

The redirection of care of rape survivors from district surgeons to district hospital medical staff places a huge workload on medical staff, owing to the escalation in the numbers of rapes. Cases take about two years to get to court, so it defeats the ends of justice if community service doctors see them. Also, a high proportion of rape victims are juveniles requiring the experience of senior doctors who are subpoenaed two to three times a month to courts up to 50 kilometres away.

In 2002 one hospital attended to 158 rape survivors, 106 being children 15 years and under, which was more than double the previous year. In addition, 35% of cases in antenatal, postnatal and gynaecology wards are HIV- positive, necessitating additional counselling and care of increasing numbers of very ill women.

The ACDP calls on the Department of Health to take urgent action to counter continuing losses of experienced medical personnel due to burnout, by ensuring that every unit which trains interns in community service personnel has a post … [Time expired.]

           VIOLENCE AND CRIME IN CHATSWORTH, KWAZULU-NATAL

                        (Member's Statement)

Miss S RAJBALLY (MF): Madam Deputy Speaker, violence and crime have been a major problem in the Chatsworth, KwaZulu-Natal, area. Efforts to curb and overcome the problem in the area have become desperate.

As a result, the policing forum of Chatsworth, the MF and representatives of other political parties took the initiative of hosting two public meetings in the area. People expressed great concern about the loss of life and property. A third meeting was called with the provincial Minister of Safety and Security in KwaZulu-Natal to address the issue further. We are thankful for this.

It is, however, disheartening to note that four police officers in the province have been charged with theft after stealing an amount of money which was recovered during an armed robbery in the city centre on Tuesday.

Our people turn to the police force for assistance, but cases like these reduce confidence in the system. So what can be done now? Thank you. HISTORIC CLEANSING CEREMONIES IN EASTERN CAPE

                        (Member's Statement)

Chief M NONKONYANA (ANC): Deputy Speaker, hon members, the Congress of Traditional Leaders of SA and the Eastern Cape House of Traditional Leaders will be hosting a historic national traditional cleansing ceremony on Saturday, 29 March 2003, at Mvezo along the Mbashe River. This will be followed by an interdenominational church ceremony on Sunday, 30 March 2003, at the Independence Stadium in Umtata.

These two ceremonies will enjoy the support of our Government. President Thabo Mbeki and the premiers of provinces will be attending. The ex- President, Rolihlahla Mandela, will also embrace the occasions.

The traditional leaders believe that ceremonies of this nature present us with an opportunity to salute both our fallen and living heroes and heroines of our liberation movements which fought for the freedom and dignity of all, including that of the institution of traditional leadership, and for a better life for all South Africans.

The traditional leaders believe that it is this spirit of our forebears and the heroic determination of freedom fighters that continue to guide our Government in its determination to push back the frontiers of poverty in our country.

We call upon all South Africans to observe these ceremonies and to please attend in person or in spirit. I thank you. [Applause.]

            FORMER NEW NP MEMBERS MOVING TO OTHER PARTIES

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr F J VAN DEVENTER (DA): Madam Speaker, section 1 of the Constitution of the Republic of South Africa reads as follows: “The Republic of South Africa is one, sovereign, democratic state founded on the following values.” These include “universal adult suffrage, a national common voters roll, regular elections and a multiparty system of democratic government, to ensure accountability, responsiveness and openness”.

Ek en die kollegas wat van die Nuwe NP na die DA oorgegaan het, onderskryf al die bogenoemde waardes waarop die Suid-Afrikaanse staat gebou is. Die voormalige Nuwe NP-lede wat daardie party verlaat het, het na drie verskillende partye, onder meer die ANC, gegaan. Bewerings dat persone wat hulle by die DA aangesluit het, regses is wat vir die nuwe Suid-Afrika wil probeer wegkruip, is valse propaganda. Hierdie uitsprake van politieke partyleiers is uiters onverantwoordelike politiek wat die gees van die land se Grondwet ondermyn en rassepolarisasie aanblaas. Ek dank u. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Those colleagues and I who have moved from the New NP to the DA endorse all of the above-mentioned values on which the South African state is built. The former New NP members who have left that party have moved to three different parties, inter alia the ANC. Allegations that people who joined the DA are rightwingers who are trying to hide from the new South Africa, are false propaganda. These pronouncements by political party leaders are extremely irresponsible politics which undermine the spirit of the Constitution of the country and foment racial polarisation. I thank you. [Applause.]]

         AIDS VACCINE TRIAL SITES IN JOHANNESBURG AND DURBAN

                        (Member's Statement)

Dr U ROOPNARAIN (IFP): Madam Deputy Speaker, the Aids vaccine trial sites in Johannesburg and Durban are recruiting healthy HIV-negative volunteers to come forward for the testing of the Aids vaccine on them, upon approval of the vaccine by the Medicines Control Council. The SA Aids Vaccine Initiative, through its clinical trial division at the Medical Research Council in Durban, will administer either of the two vaccines specifically aimed at the South African subtype of HIV.

With the prototype vaccines currently being assessed by the MCC and with the decision expected within months, the trial sites are being prepared. This is so that as soon as the Medical Control Council gives its approval, the trials can start. However, these trials on the vaccine will depend solely on HIV-negative volunteers coming forward to be administered with the vaccine.

We hope that people will support this cause. Thank you. HISTORIC LAUNCH OF SA RUGBY FOOTBALL UNION’S MOBILE TRAINING SYSTEM IN NYANGA

                        (Member's Statement)

Ms N R NTSHULANA-BHENGU (ANC): Madam Deputy Speaker, yesterday we were privileged to attend the historic launch of the SA Rugby Football Union’s mobile training system in Nyanga. The provision of this system of state-of- the-art gym equipment in shipping containers to underprivileged rugby players is a milestone in the development of rugby in our communities. The training facilities, which can be moved from one venue to another, will provide underprivileged rugby players with access to the latest gym equipment and will enhance their physical development. We rise to commend both the SA Rugby Football Union and the Sports Science Institute for this initiative. We are encouraged by the fact that this initiative will be taken to the other Supersport regions of Sarfu. We trust that this move will benefit the disadvantaged communities in both our townships and rural areas.

We believe that a project of this nature will be of great value, as it will take the youth off the streets, away from negative social influences like substance abuse, crime and other things, to the sports arena where they can be physically developed.

We are of the view that our youth’s involvement in sport will assist in giving them a sense of personal discipline and moral character. We view this initiative as part of the “Getting the Nation to Play” project, which laid the foundation of the ANC Government’s policy on sport. We urge the communities … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

                           FLOOR-CROSSINGS

                        (Member's Statement)

Dr S J GOUWS (Nuwe NP): Mevrou die Adjunkspeaker, ek wil graag na aanleiding van agb lid Van Deventer se oorloop na die DA, sy onlangse uitsprake oor die DA wat hy in die Raad gemaak het, aanhaal:

In die Karoo het ons ‘n voëltjie wat daar rondspring, gewoonlik van miskoek tot miskoek. Agb Speaker, as u my die woord sal vergewe, hulle word strontvoëltjies genoem, Karootaal, want hulle spring so van miskoek tot miskoek en maak altyd dieselfde ou geluidjies.

Ek wil aan die agb President sê hy moet hom nie veel aan dié voëltjies steur wat hier op linkerkant sit en spring van miskoek tot miskoek nie. Hulle staan in die pad van die nuwe Suid-Afrika en die goeie toekoms wat vir dié land voorlê. Aangesien Suid-Afrika tans as die bakermat van vele spesies gehuldig word, lyk dit vir die Nuwe NP of ‘n splinternuwe spesie sy kop uitsteek. Daar bestaan ‘n sterk vermoede dat die geleerde naam ``stontopholius oorloopius’’ sal wees. Die agb lid Van Deventer blyk nou self deel van die swerm strontvoëltjies te wees. Net jammer dat dié nuwe spesie niks minder as ‘n plaag is nie. Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Dr S J GOUWS (New NP): Madam Deputy Speaker, I would like to quote, following on the hon member Van Deventer’s crossing the floor to the DA, his recent statements made in the Chamber regarding the DA:

In die Karoo het ons ‘n voëltjie wat daar rondspring, gewoonlik van miskoek tot miskoek. Agb Speaker, as u my die woord sal vergewe, hulle word strontvoëltjies genoem, Karootaal, want hulle spring so van miskoek tot miskoek en maak atlyd dieselfde ou geluidjies.

I would like to say to the hon President he should not pay too much attention to these little birds sitting here on the left-hand side who are hopping from one dungheap to another. They are standing in the way of the new South Africa and the good future that lies ahead for this country. As South Africa is currently regarded as being the cradle of many species, it seems to the New NP that a brand new species is rearing its head. There is a strong suspicion that the learned name will be “stontopholius oorloopius”. The hon member Van Deventer now seems to be part of this flock of “strontvoëltjies” [dung birds]. Just a pity that this new species is nothing more than a plague. Thank you.]

                   HIGH SCHOOLS IN DEPRIVED AREAS

                        (Minister's Response)

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Deputy Speaker, the significance of hon member Kota’s statement lies in the fact that Langa High School, like other high schools in deprived areas, has reflected enormous changes in its matriculation results.

I can announce to this House that in one year 3 000 additional Africans got matric exemptions, which means, therefore, that they are able to go to our universities. This is part of that programme of intervention. The first point is that enormous interventions are taking place, with the involvement of the private sector’s National Business Initiative and other private sector involvement to assist in mathematics and science.

The second point is that although Langa High School is unusual, it is, in fact, part of a pattern that is developing. The principal is an Indian South African. Mr Esau, who took part in this programme, is a coloured South African.

Finally, there are white teachers at Langa High School and elsewhere in the townships in Cape Town. I think this removes the myth, therefore, that single-race schools will continue. This reflects the kind of development in South Africa which this House should approve of.

Then, thirdly, of significance here is that unlike South African students who don’t work on the Letsema principle in the townships, there are 16 students from Japan, Britain, Sweden and other parts of the world who have lived and worked in Langa. This is a very significant thing for our Values in Education programme, because in this House, or this part of the House, we come from a very international tradition.

The international tradition means, therefore, that we are comfortable with people coming here - sometimes criticising us, but working with us. I think it is very important that there are these links with overseas countries. Our children can’t travel overseas for awards or prizes unless the private sector assists them. I think this is why the partnership with the private sector locally, regionally and nationally is very important.

Finally, let me say again, the involvement of the … [Time expired.]

                    MANDATE OF SA POLICE SERVICE

                        (Minister's Response)

The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Deputy Speaker, I am responding to the observation made by the hon Rajbally. The mandate of the SA Police Service is to create an atmosphere of safety and security for all our people. Any police official who does anything that mitigates against that mandate is guilty of an offence.

What our people need to do is to go to the relevant police station where they live and report an infraction of this mandate to the station commander. If they do not get any joy from the station commander, they should go to the next level of authority, which will be the area commissioner, and so on.

However, apart from that, there is also a separate system which is overseen by the Independent Complaints Directorate. They should go there and report that these police officials are guilty of misconduct, because this would be misconduct, and we must submit a charge against such police officials.

With the matter having been raised at this level, I would like to advise the hon Rajbally to write me a letter in which the relevant details are embodied in order for me to take action. The police are not supposed to act in the manner that she indicated these police officials acted in. Thank you.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 19 - Social Development:

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Somlomo, siyabulela. Wamhle namhanje. [Madam Speaker, we are grateful. You are beautiful today.]

Hon members, MECs, distinguished guests, members of the community present here today, ladies and gentlemen, it is indeed a great honour and privilege for me to be afforded the opportunity to present the Budget Vote of the Department of Social Development for the year 2003-04.

This comes at a time when millions of poor households, individuals and communities are beginning to have a better sense of hope about the future. The most vulnerable of our society, in particular children, older persons, people with disabilities, people who are infected with and affected by HIV/Aids and other diseases, are more than ever before beginning to feel that the Government is indeed taking bold steps to make them the masters of their own destinies.

This Budget Vote speech is presented against the backdrop of critical international resolutions adopted by the World Summit on Sustainable Development, hosted by us last year in Johannesburg. These resolutions added fresh impetus to our collective commitments, amongst other things, to halve the world’s poor by the year 2015.

As we finalise our preparations for the Growth and Development Summit, we should note that significant progress, both in the social and economic sphere, has been made over the past nine years. Indeed, the tide has turned and the people’s contract for a better tomorrow is beginning to take shape.

Yet, as we present this Budget Vote speech, the very existence of humanity is being placed under serious threat by the war in Iraq. This, undoubtedly, has far-reaching consequences for the world and developing countries, in particular those on the African continent.

The world’s children require peace and a world fit for them. They ask of us to make sure that we are not derailed from our noble course of building a better life for all. This Budget Vote will focus on the work we will be undertaking to realise a better life for all. I will take my cue from the President’s address to the nation earlier this year and the resolutions of the conference of the ANC in Stellenbosch late last year.

The challenges confronting us and the people of this region are indeed of a structural nature. These challenges manifest themselves in high levels of poverty, acute unemployment and a high prevalence of diseases such as TB, kwashiokor and HIV/Aids.

In this regard, poverty continues to be the number one enemy of all South Africans, the subregion and the continent as a whole. Large numbers of our population continue to live in poverty. The high levels of unemployment and the prevalence of diseases such as kwashiokor, TB and HIV/Aids confine our people to a spiral of poverty they cannot single-handedly escape.

Our attack on poverty is underpinned by our desire to empower our people to extricate themselves from this poverty. At the same time, we are creating adequate social nets to protect the most vulnerable of our society. To this end, Government in general and my department in particular have, over the past three years, adopted an integrated approach to tackling the complex problems of poverty, underdevelopment and social exclusion that face millions of our people right throughout the continent.

In my Budget Vote speech last year, I focused attention on the need to put children first. I am pleased to announce that more than 2,6 million children under the age of seven have been registered to date for the child support grant. [Applause.] This is a significant increase from a mere 60 000 in 1999. Even more significant is the above-inflation increase in the grant amount received, effected twice this financial year, that is an increase from R110 to R130 in April 2002 and an increase from R130 to R140 in October 2002. This year, with effect from 1 April, the child support grant will increase by R20, from R140 to R160.

I take this opportunity to thank members of this House, the faith-based organisations, business, labour, the nongovernmental sector, the media and communities who have worked in partnership with us to make sure that we put children first in all our efforts.

As part of this continuing effort, the President, in his state of the nation address, announced an increase in the age of eligibility for the child support grant for children up to the age of 14. This will be implemented over the next three years. I am pleased to announce that implementation will begin on 1 April, that is by next week of this year, and will be phased in according to age groups.

As from 1 April, children under the age of nine who are eligible in terms of the regulations will be registered to receive the child support grant. Children who turn seven years of age during this month, who are already in receipt of the grant and who would otherwise have fallen off the system, will continue to receive their grant up to the age of 14. [Applause.]

From 1 April 2004, the grant will be extended to children in the nine-year- old and 10-year-old category. This will extend the grant to all under the age of 11 in 2004. As from 1 April 2005, the grant will be extended further

• to children aged 11, 12 and 13. To fast-track the re-entry of those who previously qualified, we are finalising a shorter application form to facilitate ease of registration.

The Government has set aside R11 billion for the age extension, and this will result in an additional 3,2 million children receiving the child support grant over the next three years. I once again urge members of the community and all public servants to ensure that those who are eligible are indeed put into the system. I would really urge all members of Parliament, both at national and provincial level, to be part and parcel of that process.

Over the past year, well over a million children were registered for social grants, stretching our capacity to the limit. Our challenge is compounded by the fact that more than half of the unregistered children are in four of the poorest of provinces, namely the Free State, Limpopo, KwaZulu-Natal and the Eastern Cape.

Hon members are aware that these provinces are confronted by, amongst other things, staff shortages, inadequate infrastructure and a lack of access to registration centres. To overcome these constraints, the department will work closely with provinces, local authorities and the departments of education and home affairs to intensify the campaign to reach out to all qualifying children.

I take this opportunity to appeal to all public servants, especially in the above departments, and to all the trade unions to assist us in the improvement of service delivery, especially to the poor in rural areas and in particular to the vulnerable groups that we have mentioned.

The Government has over the years intensified its response to reducing the pain and ongoing suffering of our people, especially older persons and people with disabilities, during the processing and payment of grants. In this regard, we have developed the norms and standards. In the past year we have laid the foundation for the implementation of these norms and standards. This involved setting up project management offices and training more than 2 000 officials in social security administration and customer care.

The provision of social assistance grants is a very significant poverty alleviation programme of Government. For this purpose, we require different institutional arrangements that focus on this initiative. To this end, Cabinet has discussed the matter and has decided to establish the National Social Security Agency. The agency will be a specialist and focused institution for the management, administration and payment of social grants. The process of the establishment of the agency is being fast- tracked. It is anticipated that Parliament will pass legislation in this financial year.

Co-operative governance is fundamental to improving service delivery. Consequently, my department is working with the presidential task team to improve social assistance service delivery in the Eastern Cape. The challenges being faced by this province in terms of service delivery also obtain in other provinces, especially those incorporating former Bantustans.

In the Eastern Cape the team is making steady progress in implementing short-term strategies and developing long-term sustainable plans. A progress report will be presented to Cabinet very shortly.

One of the most critical aspects of our work this year will be to consolidate our approach into a comprehensive social security system. It is important to indicate that this approach is more than just the awarding of a social grant, but constitutes a package of services to those at risk or facing certain contingencies.

This comprehensive system of social security should encompass, in addition to social assistance grants, unemployment insurance, health insurance, retirement, improved services through the Road Accident Fund and a social wage. The social cluster is working towards consolidating the various elements of a comprehensive social security system for finalisation by Cabinet.

In terms of my department’s strategy against poverty, integrated sustainable development has to be achieved beyond the provision of social grants. In this regard, the department continues to make marked progress in respect of this poverty alleviation programme.

My department committed R100 million in the year 2002-03, in line with the poverty relief objectives I reiterated from this podium last year. Suffice it to say that my department is on track in ensuring that community-level social infrastructure is enhanced, vulnerable groups are targeted and food insecurities addressed. Community and home-based care services for people infected with and affected by HIV/Aids have been expanded, with more that 20 000 families this financial year receiving support.

In the past year, several major research projects and reports on the impact of HIV and strategies to mitigate its impact have been concluded by the department. We also worked closely with Stats SA, the Department of Health and academic institutions to improve our understanding of the demographic and social dimensions of the epidemic.

The research report that we have not yet released will be released in the coming months. We will undertake further in-depth analyses of the impact of HIV/Aids in the coming year with the support of USaid, the Department for International Development, AusAid and the French research community, that is, the agencies concerned.

Similarly and simultaneously, we have to continue building the capacity of the Government, the NGOs, community-based organisations and faith-based organisations to understand these research findings and to use them in planning their services. In the past two years we trained more than 1 500 Government planners through the primary HIV/Aids capacity-building course. This course will be expanded in the coming year to also include the sectors mentioned above. In other words, we want to say very clearly that HIV/Aids is not only a health issue, but a social issue that ought to be tackled by all members of our families.

In the next financial year which marks the final year of the poverty relief programme in its current form - I repeat, it marks the final year of the poverty relief programme - the department will manage R75 million. This will be used to strengthen the existing poverty relief projects, linking them with other resources and agents of development. Over the years the programme has overcome problems of underexpenditure, and the department continues to gain invaluable experience in working directly with the poor themselves.

I take this opportunity to salute the thousands of poverty relief project participants who give of their time to ensure that poverty is stamped out of our communities once and for all. I further acknowledge the presence of some of these participants, including the beekeeping project which recently won the Impumelelo Award for excellence. [Applause.]

These gains are not without challenges, both at a programmatic and project level. One of these is the complete isolation and exclusion of communities from assets and institutions such as land, banks, suppliers, markets and skills development agents.

The poverty relief programme is one of the programmes that places the poor themselves at the centre of development, whilst attempting to increase their asset base. This takes place in a context in which the majority of projects are located in rural areas where there are high levels of illiteracy, innumeracy, malnutrition and disease and where access to services is severely inadequate.

These challenges require us to increase the number of community development workers and to improve their skills base. The challenges confronting the projects themselves may require greater flexibility in our financing and development policies. An example that comes to mind is the accounting procedure that requires receipts of all expenditure. Hon members will know that it is near impossible for a poor rural woman to receive a receipt from a taxi driver in Limpopo, Transkei or Ixopo.

It is important for us to work towards the realigning of the financial and development cycles. There is therefore a need within the development community to develop practices that are effective, but which can easily be used by the masses of our people. We must not forget that the majority of us are products of Bantu Education.

Part of dealing with poverty is the need to ensure food security, including dealing with the impact of food crises on the poor. To this end, the Government is intensifying its fight against poverty and hunger in particular. Through the Integrated Food Security and Nutrition Programme, led by the hon Minister of Agriculture, Madame Thokozile Didiza, Government will provide relief measures to vulnerable groups which cannot afford adequate and nutritious food owing to poverty and escalating food prices.

The Government has, in this regard, set aside R1,2 billion for the next three years. An amount of R400 million has been allocated for the year 2002- 03, of which R170 million has been set aside to assist our neighbouring states devastated by famine, hunger and drought.

An amount of R230 million is being used to benefit about 240 000 poor households in this financial year. Families who do not have an income and spend less than R200 per month on food and basic household essentials will receive food parcels. Let me take this opportunity to acknowledge the important role played by the premiers, MECs and staff, and private and civil society partners who have, until now, assisted us in launching this programme. I would specifically like to name the giver of givers, a Muslim group that has been working with us for the past six months on this issue.

The roll-out of the programme has proceeded steadily, with a few organisational problems and challenges in different provinces. I am pleased to say whatever problem had existed or had been perceived to exist, specifically in KwaZulu-Natal, it was resolved between Prince Gideon Zulu and I.

The main objective of the programme is to build a better life for all by enhancing the capacity of poor households to fight hunger and poverty, to access nutritious food, and to be afforded some protection from the ever- escalating food prices.

The programme has incorporated, through its four pillars, elements of sustainability and ultimate self-reliance by the targeted beneficiaries. We, the Ministers and MECs of the Departments of Agriculture, Health and Social Development, will meet tomorrow in order to provide greater clarity on the unfolding of the programme and the period post the three months of relief provision. The main beneficiaries of the programme will be children and their grandmothers, women-headed households and households affected by and infected with HIV/Aids.

I am haunted by the faces of children who are sick and suffering from HIV/Aids and other diseases. A particular example is the faces of six homeless children I met during the launch of the Integrated Food Security and Nutrition Programme in Bekkersdal, Gauteng, on 13 March this year. Their smiles and sense of hope when they received their food parcels convinced me not only of the correctness of our efforts, but of the need to work together to expand the programme alongside the school nutrition programme and the provision of agricultural starter packs. We dare not fail them.

In order to ensure the effective implementation of this programme, we must ensure the full participation of community organisations. The question then arises: What will really happen after the three-month period when the provision of these food parcels is up? Transformation of the legislative framework remains an important part of ensuring that democracy in our country has real meaning for the poor. To this end, I am pleased to announce that with the assistance of the hon members of the portfolio and select committees, both in the National Assembly and the NCOP, the following Bills are being worked on and are close to completion. The Comprehensive Child Bill seeks to provide holistic protection of children. The Social Security Agency Bill seeks to centralise the payment of grants through the establishment of a national agency. The Social Assistance Bill seeks to provide for the rendering of social assistance and social relief of distress to persons. The Older Persons Bill seeks to protect and secure the dignity of older persons. The National Development Agency Amendment Bill seeks to formally transfer the National Development Agency to the Department of Social Development.

These pieces of legislation will have a cumulative effect on laying the basis for the strengthening of families and communities for a better life for all.

Social integration remains a national challenge. To achieve this, we have to rebuild families and communities through programmes empowering the young, the old and disabled people, as well as women. On this, the eve of the celebration of the 10th anniversary of the International Year of the Family, we will strengthen our efforts to place families at the centre of all of our development initiatives and for the moral regeneration of our society.

Through the completion of the 10-point plan, we have indeed turned the tide. Child protection was again, this year, the focus of advocacy activities right throughout the country, and progress was made in legislation and strategies to protect children against abuse, neglect and exploitation.

The President made a passionate plea to all of us to join hands in forging a people’s contract for a better tomorrow. We have strengthened partnerships with community-based organisations, faith-based organisations, the volunteer sector and business. We are going to work very closely with business, under the leadership of Raymond Ackerman and Mr Cyril Ramaphosa. This agreement was the outcome of a successful business summit which attracted community and business leaders, and was built on a common vision for partnership for social development. In this regard, business will be working with us to increase support to community initiatives so as to provide greater synergy in our development activities.

I take this opportunity to recognise our partners who played an important role and participated in that summit, some of whom will be present here today. Already these initiatives are beginning to bear fruit for thousands of ordinary citizens in South Africa.

International solidarity and co-operation contributed to the attainment of our democracy. If the challenges that confront us are to be met, we must continue to harness international partnerships. In this regard, let me take this opportunity to recognise the assistance we have received from different countries, specifically the Netherlands, France and Belgium. We are in the process of finalising relations with the peoples and governments of Germany, Ireland, Algeria and China.

Last year we launched the Second Country Programme of the United Nations Population Fund, through which R73 million will be spent on capacity- building in population development and reproductive rights. In particular, the programme will target women and the youth in the poorer parts of our country. Earlier this year my department participated in the debate in the United Nations, which will make a big difference to the work we are doing.

These processes will contribute towards our country report during the 10- year reviews of the commitments of the International Conference on Population Development and the World Summit on Social Development, which will be done in 2004 and 2005 respectively.

The department’s budget will increase significantly from R650 million this year to just under R2 billion in the new financial year. This increasing trend increases, and over the medium term it reaches R7,2 billion by the year 2005-06. This increased budget reflects the Government’s commitment to pushing back the frontiers of poverty. Of note is the special allocation of the substantial amount of R1,1 billion for the child support grant and the extension to the old-age grant.

In addition, the National Development Agency allocation will also be increased from R96 million to just over R103 million. We are also in the process of finalising the appointment of a new board for the NDA. The new board is envisaged to assume office as soon as possible.

The development challenges that face all of us require that development financing agencies, such as the NDA, align directly with Government priorities and programmes. In this regard, my department and the social cluster are working closely with the NDA to finalise its strategic outlook and positioning.

Although significant progress has been registered in almost all areas of our work, there are many challenges that still lie ahead. Poverty levels are still unacceptably high. Violations of children’s rights continue to haunt our society. HIV/Aids continues to devastate many families and communities. These require that we redouble our efforts. Only when all sectors of our society work together in an integrated and co-ordinated manner and in close partnership will our common goal of building a better life for all be realised.

I have been charged with the responsibility of leading a review of the impact of the Government’s policies and programmes on the first decade of democracy. Progress on the review was reported to the Cabinet lekgotla in January 2003, which reflected the outputs of all clusters since 1994. At the moment the Department of Social Development and the policy unit of the presidency are undertaking further research to determine the impact of these Government programmes through the clusters, in partnership with organisations such as the Human Sciences Research Council - the HSRC.

We are committed to accelerating the transformation of welfare services even further for our people in order for them to gain greater access to services. The establishment of the Advisory Board on Social Development will assist in ensuring quality provision of social services and should be up and running by June.

In conclusion, let me take this opportunity to thank all those who worked tirelessly with us in our efforts to achieve a better life for all our people. Our efforts should be geared towards turning the tide even further. Let us all work for the strengthening of our families and communities to enable our children to grow up in a healthy, caring and safe environment. A happy child brings about a happy family, a happy community and a happy society.

May I take this opportunity to thank all the NGOs, all the faith-based organisations and, more importantly, the management and staff of the Department of Social Development, both at national and provincial level, for the hard work they have been doing. Thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I ask hon members to please lower their voices as they continue to talk.

Mr N J CLELLAND-STOKES: Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a great honour today to be the first DA member of Parliament to officially make a speech in this House. [Applause.]

A woman, with her children, was lying at the side of the road - impoverished and malnourished. Minister Strijdom happened to be going down the same road and, when he saw the woman lying at the side of the road, he went to investigate. The woman lifted her head out of the shadows to see who had come to help her. Minister Strydom saw her face and saw that she was black. He got up, and quickly passed by on the other side of the road. So, too, did Minister Verwoerd when he came to the woman lying at the side of the road. He went to investigate. The woman lifted her head out of the shadows to see who had come to help her. Minister Verwoerd saw her face and saw that she was black. He got up quickly, and passed by on the other side of the road.

However, as Minister Skweyiya travelled on that same road and came to where the woman was lying and saw her, he went to her to offer her assistance. The woman lifted her head out of the shadows to see who had come to help her.

Minister Skweyiya saw her face. He asked her: “How old are you?” She replied: “I am 56, sir.” Minister Skweyiya stood up: “I am sorry. You are to young to qualify for a social grant.” [Interjections.] “But what about my children?” the woman cried desperately. “How old are they?” said the Minister. “Eleven and 15, sir”, said the woman. “I am so sorry, woman” said Minister Skweyiya, “they are too old to qualify for the child grant.” And the Minister went on his way. Mr Minister, let me put it categorically. The vast majority of the people in this House think that you are a good man with honourable and sincere objectives, but, Minister, that is not enough. Yes, the extension of the age for the child support grant has marginally improved things in South Africa, but South Africa’s bizarre age discrimination for those living in absolute poverty exists and impacts on millions of our people every single day.

The poverty gap is now from the ages of 14 to 60. This situation, Minister, is untenable and needs to be dealt with immediately. Minister, poverty knows no age.

There are two parts to the DA’s purpose in politics. The first is to protect and promote the constitutional, democratic and human rights order that was born in 1994. The second part is to promote an agenda for positive change - change that will give everyone, every South African, especially those disadvantaged because of past oppression, the opportunity to improve the quality of his or her life.

Minister, a basic income grant cannot eradicate poverty, but it can go a long way towards alleviating poverty. Even though we have spent years, literally years, drawing up carefully thought-out plans for the practical implementation of a basic income grant, we are not married to the details, Minister.

In fact, let me put it on the record today. We are prepared to contribute to any process that seeks the introduction of a basic income grant, to talk to anyone who sincerely appreciates and supports such a measure. And, Minister, I mean anyone, including Cosatu.

Minister, at the social sector cluster briefing in February this year, you effectively denounced a basic income grant in favour of a comprehensive social security system. Let me say this: While the efforts to improve administration and to co-ordinate existing grants with other systems like the Unemployment Insurance Fund and the Road Accident Fund are laudable, this approach completely ignores poverty-stricken South Africans between the ages of 14 and 60, South Africa’s poverty age gap. The basic income grant is the only way to close that gap.

Minister, the poverty age gap is one of the most serious challenges facing you and your department. If, today, you can say that you will seek the introduction of a basic income grant, the DA will support you and will be right behind you.

Minister, the second critical challenge facing you is the welfare of our children. You, today, spoke about children as an important and critical challenge facing your department. You admitted here in this House recently that social workers were understaffed by 40%, or by 1 400 personnel.

Currently, the justice committee is considering the Child Justice Bill. In terms of the Bill, the Department of Social Development will be required to supply probation officers for juvenile offenders who will have to be assessed within 48 hours.

Now, Minister, you are unable to provide enough social workers to assist children who are the victims of crime, often a brutal crime like rape. Currently, victims wait longer than a year for an assessment report, resulting in cases eventually being postponed at court, or eventually withdrawn. That is a shocking situation, Minister. I am sure you agree.

Another contributing factor is that the average case load of one of the 2 107 social workers is 150 cases, while the average should be 80. Minister, we need to turn this around.

In conjunction with the Minister for the Public Service and Administration, you must, please Minister, ensure that the 1 400 vacant social workers be declared scarce skills. They have to be declared scarce skills, allowing these posts to be filled immediately because our children’s future depends on this. The two challenges I have highlighted today are vital and, in fact, defining. I look forward to your reply, and sincerely hope that you will grasp these nettles, and that you will rise to the challenge. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr E (Cassim) SALOOJEE: Chairperson, hon Minister Skweyiya and hon members, I hope and believe that every member of this Assembly will join me in supporting the budget allocation for Social Development and the programmes of poverty alleviation and child support that are funded under this Vote.

Our Government’s recent decision to extend the age limit for the child support grant means that, within three years - hon members must really look at this figure - about 6,7 million children will be protected from the most crippling effects of poverty for the first 14 years of their lives. Hon members must know that these things are still happening when we are an infant democracy and when financial resources are limited.

The extended child support grant declares that every child deserves a chance in life and must be protected against the grip of hunger. It is a measure of how far we have moved since 1994, when the welfare safety net applied only to a minority of children and effectively excluded those children who needed it. The memory of some people is short. Where do we come from, and where are we today?

At the time the ANC took hold of the reins of government, the old age- pension was by far the most widespread social grant and the only one of any meaning to the African majority, and it was discriminatory. Today child support grant beneficiaries outnumber old-age pensioners by a margin of about 2,5 million to 2 million. This is a remarkable achievement when you consider that this benefit did not even exist a mere five years ago. So, it’s very well and good when you don’t have the responsibility of Government to come and spout very generous sentiments.

Our country spends about R19 billion on social security every year. I want to tell you that there are very few developing countries in the world and in a democracy as young as ours that would expend such a substantial amount of money. Assistance on this scale is a rare achievement for a developing country, and we are justifiably proud of it. However, more importantly, we are not satisfied with the system we have. We are determined to make it more effective and to ensure that it can be sustained. In fact, that is what the Minister pointed out.

Our social security is not Government’s only poverty alleviation strategy. More than R4,5 billion has been allocated to other relief initiatives in the past five years - R4,5 billion! Most of this has been spent on initiatives that are more developmental in character.

In the short history of the child support grant, we have learnt that managing social security is not a cold, administrative process. The system works best where there is social mobilisation, where community groups get involved and where political will is evident. Minister Skweyiya, in particular, has made civil-society organisations valued partners in grant administration and has shown little patience for unnecessary red tape.

In fact, there are still numerous problems in the administration of social grants. One of the most significant challenges in the period ahead is the creation of a National Social Security Agency to centralise and improve delivery.

I believe the measure is much needed and that the potential benefits of a central, dedicated agency for social security are clear for all to see. They include the pooling of management expertise; a single investment in good management and information systems; greater equity in terms of service standards; and the eradication of fraud through double claiming.

What we need to guard against at all cots is preserving the same old service dressed up in new clothing. We want to shed the old clothing, and see to it that the new system is effective. A change in appearance without fundamental change in organisational character has no meaning. Fair labour practices will probably mean the absorption of a fair number of existing officials into the new system. Some will, undoubtedly, be an asset, but how do we ensure that others leave their unhelpful attitudes behind? So, there has to be reform and there has to be efficiency.

Clearly, the key is how the transition is handled. Perhaps one of the lessons we have learnt in recent years is that transitional processes require investment. They don’t work without an extra allocation of funds and without an infusion of specialist management skills. As members of the portfolio committee, we will take a keen and constructive interest in the successful unfolding of this critical service agency.

Once the National Social Security Agency is established, the various departments of social development will be reduced in size and simplified in terms of their functions. The challenges of social development to relieve poverty and to create systems to protect and assist groups with special needs will become the focal point of these departments.

Currently, this aspect of the work absorbs only 10% of the Social Development budget and, inevitably, the efforts of managers are focused on the social security dimension which accounts for 90% of the funding.

No task of social development is more compelling than our duty to protect and nurture the children of our nation. For the duration of this session, we will be keeping children firmly at the centre of our vision as we bring to a successful conclusion years of solid work on a comprehensive redraft of the law for the protection of children. The long-awaited Children’s Bill will soon be in our hands.

The SA Law Commission’s project committee, which was responsible for the development of this Bill, handed a draft to the Minister in December last year. As you are aware, Government has traditionally shared responsibility for the protection of children with a wide range of community organisations. So, there is very keen interest among stakeholders to begin to debate the content of the Bill and to get to grips with its resource implications.

Above all, we want a law that is realistic for our particular circumstances. We want a law that takes account of all our vulnerable children - the street children, the orphans, the children living in households affected by Aids, those with disabilities and chronic illness and those whose parents subject them to neglect and abuse. None of the previous laws on children admitted the scope and size of the problem of vulnerable children. None encouraged and empowered communities to take responsibility for such children in their midst.

We now have a historic opportunity to change that and to create a legal framework to ensure that no child is without the protection of adults and that no child goes without shelter, food, health care and education.

If we need to be reminded of the seriousness and the weight of this task, we should look no further than newspaper reports that record with shocking regularity the continued sexual abuse of children. Last year, this Assembly held extensive public hearings on the sexual abuse of children, and we were left in no doubt that these attacks are not isolated acts. They constitute a substantial threat to children all over this country. Every month the number of children who bear the scars of such violence is growing.

We need a law that enables us to take firm protective measures at an early stage. We need a law that empowers men and women of social integrity to step in and remove vulnerable children from those who would exploit and damage them. This we will strive for in the Children’s Bill.

However, we know that this is only part of the solution and that parallel action must be taken in other areas by the law-enforcement agencies, by the health services and by the educational system. Let us have the courage to admit that we have failed our children in this respect and the courage to pledge that we will not fail them in the future.

The broader challenge of the social development programme includes improving our capacity to alleviate poverty through projects that generate an income for their participants. Currently, the results on the ground are extremely uneven and it seems that we have not yet found a reliable way of facilitating these projects.

It is my belief that the National Development Agency did not always direct funding in the most appropriate manner in the past. However, with the recent passing of the NDA Amendment Bill, we are looking forward to a closer working relationship between the agency and the department and to a better alignment of their objectives.

Income-generation initiatives are often more difficult to implement than we assume. By definition, they are established in situations that entrepreneurs have found unattractive. We should not underestimate the level of skill and dedication that is required to reap success. We need to study our best projects, understand what made them winners and replicate their methods elsewhere.

Before I close, I want to say a word on the underdevelopment of the facilities that cater for older persons. This has been reflected in the stagnation of organisational growth in this service area since 1994. Resources are still locked into the restricted range of organisations that existed under minority rule, and the focus remains inappropriately on institutional care.

However, I am glad to say that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Excellent preparatory work has been done for a national policy document on social support for older people. We expect that the department will be sharing the policy with us in the not too distant future, and that this will set the stage for a Bill that will change the whole landscape of care for older people.

In conclusion, I would like to return to a point I touched on earlier, which is the need to invest in the personnel who are entrusted with the mission of social transformation. Too often our discussions on human resources are reduced to numbers.

While the question of training is not overlooked, we need to ask whether the quality of our training is good enough to achieve our dreams. If we want different results, we have to give our professional workers something that makes them feel different and work differently. Pay should be commensurate with qualifications and responsibilities, and any unfair inequalities - for instance, between state social workers and those in the NGOs - must be eradicated. There are signs that those who take the decisions have applied their minds to this. I wholeheartedly support the Budget Vote for Social Development and will endeavour through the work of the portfolio committee to strengthen the legislative framework that gives direction to our social programmes. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs I MARS: Madam Deputy Speaker, I don’t think anything has ever united this House as much as our common desire to push back the frontiers of poverty. I think we are totally united in this and we do not have to question each other’s purposes and credentials.

The term was actually used by the President in his state of the nation address last year. He made mention, again, of it this year. I think we have to adopt this as a leitmotif for all our future action in the foreseeable future. The reason for this is that despite our best efforts - and they have been highly commendable and we do appreciate them - there are still too many of South Africa’s citizens who fall outside the available safety nets.

We have heard from the Minister of the many wonderful programmes that are being instituted now, and many of the things I want to highlight actually have been mentioned by him and by previous speakers.

I would just like to illustrate what it means - and I do this without cynicism - to fall outside the available safety nets. It simply means that there are jobless people that have no source of income to take care of themselves and their families. If their children are over seven years - and this is going to be changed very soon and the programmes are already in place - there are no provisions in terms of grants or other forms of social assistance.

Now, an unemployed single mother actually said this to one of my colleagues: “If my children were orphans they could go into a foster care, have a roof over their heads, go to school and have adequate food. Because of me they suffer.” I think this is a very tragic and touching statement. However, as I have mentioned before, there are programmes that will deal with that.

The IFP agreed to and supported the proposal by the commission of inquiry into a comprehensive system of social security last year, namely the progressive extension of the child grant to children up to the age of 14. We very much hope that in due course we will be able to extend this to children up to the age of 16.

It is so important - and I cannot stress this enough - that we keep our children in school. If we can’t keep them in school, they will not be able to enter the increasingly competitive job market by the time they leave school. There is training available when they leave school, but you have to be able - you have to have a basic education - to avail yourself of this training. We need to equip them to find jobs in an ever more competitive job market.

We have school feeding schemes in place, but we all know that they haven’t always been successful. They need to be evaluated and continued wherever feasible and where there are committed governing bodies and teaching staff to monitor and supervise. Community-based organisations could play an important role in the delivery of these schemes. There also seems to have been some difficulties about these in the past. These need to be looked into.

We dare not let our children down, and we need to make it possible for them to stay in school and complete their education. This should be one of our priorities. These children are our future and they need to be prepared for their future.

The increase in pensions and grants is very welcome, particularly the child grant which reflects a real increase of over current inflation rates. However, we are still very concerned - and I am sure this goes for all of us - at the number of family households depending on an old-age pension, leaving very little for the senior citizen for whom it was intended.

In his reply to the President’s state of the nation address, the leader of the IFP expressed his deep concern about the rapid disintegration of the subsistence economy in rural areas. We, therefore, commend the initiatives taken by the Departments of Public Works, Agriculture, Social Development - in other words, the social cluster - and others in creating opportunities in deprived areas.

These initiatives, especially in rural areas, can play a major role in restoring a sense of self-worth, eventually freeing people from hunger and need. In terms of our philosophy, empowering people with food security and Public Works schemes to improve neglected infrastructure or to create new infrastructure allows people to actively engage in creating a better life for their families and communities.

The disintegration of many areas needs to be addressed with a much greater sense of urgency, especially in the field of food security. We need to halt the journey of despair to urban centres where crime frequently becomes an option for survival. We have to encourage and support the restoration of the subsistence economy in the first instance, and then engage in developing these areas further.

The very fact that in the 2002 adjustments estimate R400 million needed to be allocated for emergency food relief is testimony to the fact that many of our citizens are in dire need. We appreciate the programme. We therefore applaud the multidisciplinary approach involving, again, members of the social clusters.

This is so important because in the briefing we had we could understand why this is not just a question of delivering a food parcel to a family, but that, at the same time, it is also a question of people being assisted in accessing services to which they are entitled. If we are able to get the birth certificates for children sorted out, and if we are able to get the IDs sorted out for people eligible for pension, we have gone a long way towards putting some financial muscle into the most deprived areas.

In terms of the multiple needs to be addressed, we again refer to the findings of the Taylor Report which estimated, depending on what poverty line criteria are used - and I, once again, was very shocked by this figure

• that between 45% and 55% of our people live in poverty, and that the social grant system offers a minimal lifeline of survival. Social grants, however necessary at present, remain costly relative to social effectiveness. We also need to be warned that the current system could well fail constitutional imperatives and make the state vulnerable to challenges in the Constitutional Court. Oh, I see lights are flickering here.

An integrated social development approach offers the only sustainable remedy. The allocation of the budget to the five programmes seems reasonable to us. We need to comment, however, that the means-tested child grant, which is increasing substantially per annum in order to take up the new age extension, will reach the provinces as conditional grants.

The increase from R1,1 billion in 2003-04 to R3,4 billion in 2004-05 will be the envisaged extension of the child grant, estimated to reach another 3,2 million children over a period of three years. We do support the planned phase approach, because that’s the only way it can become manageable and implementable. Thank you. [Time expired.]

Ms C M P RAMOTSAMAI: Hon Chairperson, I stand here to take exception to what the hon member, Clelland-Stokes, said here earlier. I think this is a very, very serious debate. I think the DP does not have the interests and welfare of the people at heart, because they send this young man who does not even attend the meetings. I don’t know how many times they have, in this term, changed members who serve on this committee. Today he comes here and can make jokes about poor people, because he has never been poor. He does not know what poverty is. [Applause.]

You might say “nonsense” and “sies”, but I am serious about what I am saying. You know that you don’t take the issues of poor people seriously. [Interjections.] The only thing they know - as the President told the DP yesterday - is that they want to make headlines every time they stand here. [Interjections.] As long as you do not want to be South African citizens, you must go to Zimbabwe and apply for citizenship there, because I think that’s where you belong. [Applause.]

You come here and talk about a basic income grant, but you do not even tell people that they are going to pay almost double VAT. That is why you want a basic income grant. [Interjections.] Look at your posters calling people to look at a basic income grant. In English you talk about a basic income grant as you do in Afrikaans, but when it comes to isiXhosa, you go to Khayelitsha and put forward an amount of R100. Isn’t that opportunistic of you, DP, to do those things? [Applause.]

You call that politics? People of this country are not interested in your politics. They are interested in changing this country. They have been poor and you have been part of making them poor. Now you come here and make jokes about that. The next time you must send someone who is serious to sit on this committee. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

I rise to support Budget Vote 19 - Social Development. The central question that President Mbeki posed to all of us in this country in his state of the nation address earlier this year, was that the “challenge we all face as South Africans is to put our shoulders to the wheel to accelerate the pace of change,” as we are continuing the task “to push back the frontiers of poverty and expand access to a better life for all”.

He is also making this call to you, DP, whether you like it or not.

To address this, the ANC Government has proved over many, many years since it came into existence, that it cares for all the people of South Africa and places special emphasis on those who were previously discriminated against by the apartheid system - those who are poor in the deep rural communities and in the urban communities of this country.

The poverty of these people did not start in 1994 after the democratic elections, as the DP would like to portray. The plight of these people began to have action taken against it after 1994 by the ANC Government.

One of the severest ways in which poverty manifests itself in South Africa is at the level of household food security, as the Minister mentioned earlier. This food security also impacts on the ability of poor households to cope with the impact of HIV/Aids and other chronic illnesses, such as tuberculosis. In simple terms, food security means that all living people should enjoy consistent access to food that is nutritionally adequate.

The National Food Consumption Survey of 1999 showed that at least 21,6% of children between the ages of one and nine are stunted. This indicates chronic past undernutrition. Younger children of one to three years of age are most severely affected, as well as those living on commercial farms - about 30% of them - and the list goes on.

I think that when this Government makes an effort to change the situation, the DP tries to look for gaps. They always try to look for gaps. They are not looking at the attempts we are making. We have a long backlog in this country.

Mr W J SEREMANE: Close the gap.

Ms C M P RAMOTSAMAI: Could you just keep quiet and listen. [Interjections.]

Mr W J SEREMANE: Close the gap.

Ms C M P RAMOTSAMAI: Mr Seremane, just keep quiet. We have a long backlog in this country. You know that, Mr Seremane, even though you might behave as if you don’t know that. Just because you are sitting on those benches, you pretend that you don’t know. [Interjections.] Maybe you should tell your friends what poverty means, because you know what it means. However, because you decide to brush it aside, we are going to deal with it because we are governing. We are governing, and you prefer to criticise and sit on those moving chairs of yours. [Interjections.]

Our programme includes the provision of food parcels for three months to the poorest families who do not have an income or who have an income of less than R200 a month; the intensification of registration for social grants; the acceleration of the school nutrition programme; the provision of agricultural starter packs so that households can provide food for themselves; and developing sustainable and community food security.

Government aims to implement this programme by way of intersectoral co- operation. It includes a comprehensive food production and trade scheme to enhance the capacity of communities to produce food for themselves through the setting up of both household and communal food gardens.

A further element of the comprehensive strategy is to ensure that food security efforts are aligned to income-generating and community development programmes that are already in place. The food production cluster, which is managed by the Department of Social Development, is one example of such a programme that must be linked to the Integrated Food Security Strategy, with the involvement of other departments, the NDA, community organisations, faith-based organisations, trade unions and many more. More than 200 families have been identified in all nine provinces. To date, the food parcel campaign has reached more than 12 000 families.

This first funding allocation to this programme was made sometime late last year, and an amount of R230 million was allocated. This will be strengthened by allocations of R400 million per year in the 2003-04 financial year and in the next two financial years. This first part of the programme of the distribution of emergency food parcels has already been launched in most provinces.

I want to congratulate Minister Zola Skweyiya. He has been consistent in his endeavours, and has consulted and involved church-based organisations at all delivery levels of his department. These church-based organisations are in every corner of South Africa and are recognised by the majority.

I do also, indeed, want to caution though that there are already reports of some church ministers who are members of pension committees and who tell their congregations that these food parcels come from the church when they hand them out. They do not even make mention of the Government or the fact that they are actually just assisting.

Minister, this can be avoided if all of us in this House, as elected representatives, monitor the implementation in our different constituencies and make sure that this service benefits those for whom it was meant in the way that we as Government would like it to happen. By doing that, we would be fulfilling some of the challenges posed to us by President Mbeki, as I mentioned earlier.

We learnt with regret that some provincial departments, notably those in KwaZulu-Natal, delayed distribution. However, I am happy to hear from the Minister today that all the issues have been resolved, because we wouldn’t like to have a situation in which inefficiency and bureaucracy delay the distribution of the handing out of the food parcels to those who need them. These people cannot wait any longer owing to the poverty that exists. We also have to look at the examples of other countries. The concept of food vouchers was used in Europe in the 1950s during the postwar period, and employers contributed directly to the nutritional health of their employees, and this is still in place. We are thinking of using this method and the Brazilian method in which employers use smart cards. We think smart cards in terms of food parcels will also assist, because there already exists a situation in which the young mothers who get these grants do not use them to feed their children.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, your time has expired.

Ms C M P RAMOTSAMAI: They actually use them to do other things. I think we have to monitor that because the money is meant for the children who need it to actually get food. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs S V KALYAN: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order. Is it parliamentary for an hon member to mislead the House? She made the statement that the hon Clelland-Stokes had not attended meetings of the portfolio committee. It has been confirmed by the chairperson of that committee that since Mr Clelland-Stokes was appointed, he has not missed a single meeting.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: That is not a point of order, but I would like to address the House on two issues. Firstly, there are running commentaries going on left of the Chair, which are unfair to the speakers at the podium, irrespective of the party the member who is speaking belongs to.

There are also some very vulgar terms being used, which came up yesterday and, again, today whilst I have been in the Chair. I want to appeal to the House that we need not only to listen to what is going on, but also to conduct ourselves in a respectable manner. We are talking to the nation out there, and I really want to say to the House that the Chair is not going to tolerate that kind of behaviour this afternoon.

Mrs M E OLCKERS: Mr Chairman, last year the Portfolio Committee on Social Development approved and adopted a protocol that has had a direct bearing on curbing horrific atrocities against children, like the sale of children, child prostitution, etc. The New NP trusts that this protocol will substantially contribute to the implementation of steps that will provide a better life for all children, not only our South African children, but all children all over the world.

At the moment it is clear that Government is starting to focus more on children’s rights. The New NP welcomes the increase of R60 in the child grant this year and the age increase that will include children up to the age of 14 years. This is a step in the right direction, and we believe that this will be a lifeboat for many South African children. We are, however, concerned about one crucial shortcoming in this decision in that, at the moment, children who are between the ages of eight and 14 will still not qualify.

Een probleem wat egter ook aangepak moet word, is die registrasie van kinders wat kwalifiseer vir toelae. Dis alombekend dat die Departement van Binnelandse Sake nie oor die hulpbronne beskik om na behore te voorsien in geboortesertifikate en identiteitsdokumente nie. Dis veral ‘n probleem in landelike omgewings waar hulp dringend nodig is en waar dié werklikheid die proses kortwiek. Die gevolg is dat selfs die huidige kinderondersteuningstoelaag nie uitkom waar dit die nodigste is nie.

Die Regering behoort ‘n volskaalse bemagtigingsveldtog te loods wat veral by skole in werking gestel moet word. Hier kan taakspanne kinders in samewerking met onderwysers identifiseer en registreer. Sodoende kan die departement se taak verlig word en aan die proses momentum gegee word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[One problem that must also be tackled is the registration of children who qualify for grants. It is widely known that the Department of Home Affairs does not have the resources to adequately supply birth certificates and identity documents. This is especially a problem in the rural areas where help is urgently needed and where this reality handicaps the process. The result is that even the current child support grant does not get to where it is needed most.

The Government should launch a full-scale empowerment campaign that should be put into operation at schools. Here task teams in conjunction with teachers can identify and register children. In so doing the department’s task can be lightened and the process given motion.]

Although Government has a comprehensive policy regarding social grants and pensions, it is a known fact that people qualifying for them have difficulty getting hold of the money. For the past two years, the New NP has called on Government to look into the possibility of including food coupons as part of the welfare grant system. The Government has recently launched a food parcel scheme which the New NP supports fully, on condition that it is distributed evenly. More than R15 million allocated for social grants last year, disappeared into the pockets of Government officials working for the Department of Social Development. The Minister will not be successful without practical support from his foot soldiers.

There are also questions around the new food parcel programme which is being launched at the moment. It seems that vagueness exists around the identification of beneficiaries for the food parcels, as well as a lot of questions about distribution mechanisms and logistics. It does not seem to be an all-inclusive process.

The New NP strongly advocates that the food distribution programme and school feeding schemes should include local government in the process. Councillors, together with their ward committees, are in fact the first line of government and should therefore play a leading role in this process. This will also ensure that no political party or community grouping exploit the process which is meant to reach all the poor people of this country. This is a very challenging department to administer and there are many problems to address. Without the diligence, hard work and honesty of the majority of the officials, delivery would be impossible. The New NP wants to thank them for doing a difficult job with such kind hearts. I also thank the Minister and the chairperson of the portfolio committee for their dedication and caring leadership in this difficult portfolio. [Applause.]

Njing L M MBADI: Mhlali-ngaphambili, Mphathiswa WoPhuhliso loLuntu, ingaba uMphathiswa uyabona na okokuba phaya amehlo ajonge kuye, imilomo ikhamisile, banethemba lokufunzwa nguye? Uyiqhelile ke loo nto ukuyenza. Uyenzile ke nanamhla. Ayabulela amawethu. [Uwelewele] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Prof L M MBADI: Chairperson, Minister of Social Development, does the Minister realise that up there the eyes are looking at him, the mouths are open, they hope to be fed by him? He is used to doing that. He has also done it today. Our society expresses its gratitude. [Applause.]] It is clear from the programmes mounted within his Ministry that the Minister is in good faith and that he is dedicated to satisfying the expectations of those people. Of the six programmes in the Ministry, the most exciting and fulfilling is the measurable objective of Programme 5, namely to design, fund and monitor strategies and programmes for poverty reduction and community development, to counter the impact of HIV/Aids, and to register and support nonprofit organisations.

Since the adoption of the 10-point plan for social development in January 2000, we have noticed a shift from the traditional welfare framework to one which promotes sustainable social development, with increased self-reliance amongst poor communities. We have noted with appreciation the widening of the social security net over the years, bringing the number of grant beneficiaries to well over 5 million by the end of 2002. Most of this growth is attributed to the implementation of the child support grant since 1998, the old age grant, the disability grant and the foster care grant.

The Ministries of Finance and Social Development have heeded our advocacy for increases in grants in order to reduce poverty in poor communities, especially those in the deep rural areas. These grants could go a long way if supported and sustained by community development projects, such as gardening and agricultural endeavours. Yes, these communities have gardens and small fields, but they lack seeds, manure and the means to plough. Although the Government does supply fencing materials, some community leaders do not access these facilities.

Unemployment and hunger have contributed to laziness amongst able-bodied young men. They look forward to the grants sent to their old mothers, to their children and to their disabled brothers and sisters. This leads, in most cases, to the abuse of these grant beneficiaries.

We welcome the amendment to the regulations under the Social Assistance Act, Act 59 of 1992, that stipulates that beneficiaries are entitled to grants from the day of application and not from the day of approval, as in the past. This dispensation, however, has to be closely monitored as sharks amongst officials are always ready to pounce on their vulnerable victims.

The death of 168 children in the north-eastern Cape, all victims of malnutrition, drew the attention of the Minister of Social Development and the Deputy President. Consequently, on 29 October 2002, the Government announced that R400 million would be used to bring relief to the affected areas. A drive to have all the children in the poverty-stricken areas brought into the safety net has its own problems.

The Department of Home Affairs could just not cope with the registration of the needy children, owing to a lack of equipment, vehicles and, most importantly, manpower. Yes, the introduction of mobile Home Affairs units to meet the demand is most welcome. However, one such unit will take months to cover the affected areas.

The allocation, through the Department of Social Development, of R230 million for food parcels is highly appreciated. We need capacity, Mr Minister, to make sure that these parcels reach the target groups. Attempts must be made to curb fraudulent acts around distribution.

Indlala, inamanyala. [Hunger breeds tricks.]

The department has identified 15 million people as food insecure. To accommodate this problem, the department has budgeted as follows: R230 million for 2002-03; R400 million for 2003-04 year; and R400 million for 2004-05 year.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, your time has expired.

Njing L M MBADI: Ibuhlungu le nto. Bendiseza kuLeta - uMphathiswa woPhuhliso loLuntu. [Uwelewele] [Prof L M MBADI: This is painful. I was moving towards uLeta [clan name], the Minister of Social Development. [Applause.]

UMHLALI-NGAPHAMBILI: Uxolo bawo. [The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I’m sorry, Papa.]

Njing L M MBADI: Akasandiniki nomzuzwana? [Prof L M MBADI: He doesn’t even grant me a second.]

UMHLALI-NGAPHAMBILI: Linqabile, mhlekazi. [The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: It’s scarce, sir.]

Mrs J CHALMERS: Chairperson, hon Minister, members of this Assembly, it is generally acknowledged in South Africa that the eradication of poverty is the single biggest challenge facing us in this country. It is the certainly the challenge that the ANC regards as crucial to address, if we are to bring economic security and an acceptable quality of life to our people. Our current budget is focused on that need.

Recent research by Statistics SA found that over 40% of households could be classified as poor. I would say that is a conservative estimate. Clearly, if we are to make the sort of difference that will lower that statistic to a less critical level, a comprehensive and co-ordinated effort is needed across the board by all our citizens who find the statistics totally unacceptable. Of these there are many. They are the folk who do not accept that there is nothing I as an individual can do to improve the lot of those less fortunate than myself. Some belong to organisations that hark back to the apartheid era, even to colonial days. Some began as anti-apartheid struggle organisations and others have been formed in more recent times as a result of a perceived need to assist in addressing current issues and critical problems, such as the HIV and Aids pandemic.

The fundamental challenges that face our Government and organs of civil society alike are the same. That much is clear. I do not need to spell them out. For that reason it is crucial that linkages between the state and the NGOs are well-formed and based on the foundation of a clear understanding of the role that each plays in people’s and communities’ lives, based also on a relationship of earned trust, of established continuity, of information sharing and the sort of partnerships that bring meaningful results in the form of really making a difference in the quality of people’s lives.

If one were perhaps two can possible incorporate a required response to these challenges, I would propose that the phrase ``collective action’’ and all that it implies is what we need to bring into, not only our vocabulary but also become an integral part of our planning, our thinking and our responses to the needs we are having to deal with daily. If an NGO has the capacity and is working in areas where Government has insufficient infrastructure, they should be brought on board. Our Government is acutely aware of the crucial needs to have in place policies, strategies and programmes to ensure the delivery of effective an appropriate developmental social welfare services in order to empower children, the older person, families and communities; and the need to monitor the implementation of these policies.

The Letsima volunteer campaign is a crucial aspect of these programmes. The 2003 Budget allocation for social development is geared to this end and gets our full support. However, I would like to voice a word of concern over programme four that deals with the welfare services transformation programme. Over the past nine years it has continued to receive the smallest allocation in the budgets of both national and provincial departments. The allocation to the programme amounts to R16 million of which only R1 million is earmarked for transfer to civil society organisations on the national level. Inevitably this has an impact on the financial security of numbers of these organisations and, inevitably, this has had a negative impact on the strengthening of their services to previously underresourced communities. Developmental services the world over are the focus of endless debate, and our Government is doing its utmost to find a reliable foundation on which to lay our social transformation policies.

We also find ourselves in a situation where we have a multiplicity of nongovernmental services working in our country. Those that are active in the welfare sector range from the 22 national councils which flourished or survived under apartheid to younger liberation NGOs, many dating from the 1970s and 1980s, which received solidarity funding from abroad. When our new government came into being in 1994, both these NGO sectors faced a crisis as overseas funding was diverted to the RDP programmes. However, because historically they came from different political perspectives, they did not work together to address this problem. Unfortunately some of these divisions still exist and the Government is fully aware of the urgency to cross those divides and create partnerships to address the burning issue of poverty and nutrition and the increasing number of children orphaned by HIV and Aids.

Most NGOs in the social service field complain about funding problems, but there is a clear need for them to build more capacity for identifying, assessing, obtaining and managing funds for development. In addition, in terms of Government funding, the larger more formalised nonprofit organisations could focus on servicing the poorer sectors of society, thus enabling the less formal CBOs to become intermediaries between the NPOs who get funds, and poor communities who are the target of funds.

Then we have a considerable number of state and foreign donor-funded organisations and agencies now operating in the field. Indeed, it could be said that a proliferation there has occurred. I shall name but a few: The National Development Agency, the Independent Development Trust, the International Development Corporation, etc. They take their responsibilities extremely seriously and, indeed, handle very large amounts of money. It is worrying to hear of a lack of co-ordination between some agencies and others not performing to their full potential, as well as in some cases painfully slow delivery. I repeat, huge amounts of money are being handled by these agencies, yet for the most part it is difficult to see what difference is being made on the ground and in people’s lives. Very often the local NGOs and CBOs who are working at grassroots level and interacting on a daily basis with communities find themselves not able to access the sort of financial and training needs that experience has shown can make a difference in people’s lives, can go somewhere in enabling them to become self-suffcient, can grow confidence and reduce dependency.

Finally, I would like to point out that clearly the job of funding and disbursement agencies is no easy task. This much has been acknowledged internationally. The need to work developmentally and creatively at all levels of the empowering and enabling sectors, whether it be a donor disbursement management, indeed, right down to fieldworker level, has become critical if sustainable change is to take place throughout society. Time is going by, and to quote a member of the trade and industry committee in the recent public hearings held by that portfolio committee: If Government empowers the nation at the rate of one of the presenting agencies, it would take centuries for the country to reach the envisaged level. Our Government has no intention of waiting that long. Minister Skweyiya has travelled the length and breadth of our country. He has seen the situation for himself and identified the areas where the need for assistance is the most urgent and desperate. Now we need to ensure that poverty and food relief projects, HIV and Aids home-based care programmes and many other programmes being funded and supported by NGOs and NPOs, some by direct state financial support, some through donor agencies, are enabled to carry out their work in a developmental way that will impact and make a real difference in people’s lives. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Mr Chairman, the greatest challenge Government faces is to work on a strategy to alleviate poverty. At the same time, they are also trying to reduce the number of people dependent on social welfare.

The progressive realisation of the rights of access to constitutionally mandated rights has placed a heavy burden on Government’s resources. This is reflected in the provincial government’s spending which is dependent on the horizontal division of revenue between provinces, according to the allocation formulae of the provincial equitable share, and revenue raised by a provincial government. This has led Government to shifting resources and prioritising functions to specific provinces. Budget allocations to Social Development have remained a priority with increases to pension, child grants and other services over the years.

Why does it appear that service delivery seems to be in a continuing decline despite huge budgetary allocations? One of the basic problems appears to be a lack of adequate staffing and a lack of leadership capacity.

I just would like to put on record that the fact is that tomorrow the Minister will be handing out food parcels. I have appealed to this House on Tuesday that the ANC not use this as their political campaign. They are using taxpayers’ money to go out there and give food to people where 1 190 families will be bussed in. Let me tell you that there are going to be 3 000 people at that particular venue tomorrow.

I am going to tell you that you are not going to be able to control it. [Interjections.] The ACDP does not accept the fact that the ANC, in the absence of criteria where NGOs and church-based organisations are the appropriate bodies, deliver the service. Mr Minister, this morning you indicated in a press briefing to the media that this is the body who has been the most effective, yet my colleague earlier indicated that the churches are telling the people the food comes from them. That is not true. [Interjections.]

What I do know, and I have the facts, is that the ANC is giving food parcels to ANC people, and they are making it a big noise so that 3 000 people can stand there and say: This will only go to people who are card- carrying members of the ANC. [Interjections.]

I want to say, Mr Minister, we must …

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! There is a point of order.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, the hon member has indicated that the Minister will be involved in an event in which state resources will be misused in a way that, to our understanding, would be criminal. In that context, I ask her to withdraw her statement.

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Mr Chairman, I do not withdraw it, because the Minister will be handing out the food parcels. [Interjections.] It’s taxpayers who will be paying for 40kg of food which cost R330.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, order, hon member!

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chair, certainly there can be nothing wrong with the Minister of Social Development making sure that the people of this country have nutrition. The Minister is doing his job.

What the hon member has alleged is that that food will only be handed out to people who are members of the ANC. That is a clear misuse of state resources. She must withdraw.

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Chair …

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Ms Southgate, can you please take your seat?

I think we will have to look at Hansard to make sure exactly what Ms Southgate said, and give a ruling. [Interjections.]

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: I would really like the hon member to substantiate the charges that she is making against me and against Government. Where and by whom were parcels given out on the basis of party- political affiliation? I have read that in the media for the first time today.

Mr M J ELLIS: On a point of order. On what Rule is he rising?

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I am listening to the Minister. Will you please take your seat?

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: The hon member has charged me with working in a manner that is not legal. [Interjections.] I would like her to substantiate that, failing which she has to bear the consequences of that.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Minister, I had already ruled that we will look at Hansard to see what the hon member had said exactly, and we will try and come back, maybe even this afternoon, with a ruling on the matter. If you will allow us to look at it and take the matter up, we will rule later on in the debate.

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: With respect, we disagree. The allegations that the member has made are the type of allegations that, in terms of the Rules of this House, can only be brought by way of a substantive motion. So, at this stage, the member must forthwith withdraw that. If she wishes to bring those allegations later by the proper way, she obviously would be free to do so by way of a substantive motion.

However, at this stage, she must withdraw the allegations.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Deputy Chief Whip, I would need to look at the Hansard, which I will do as soon as it is available. I will ask the Table to assist us, and actually do the Hansard specifically for this purpose and see if we cannot rule within the course of this debate.

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Mr Chairman, to the hon Minister, let me say that I withdraw the statement. However, I will present you with the facts. I will give it to you.

Let me say that you are going to be doing this tomorrow. [Interjections.] Yes, I have the invitation. You will be handing out the food parcels. There are 40 kgs of food to the value of R300 and, yes, it is going to be held at the Xolani Multipurpose Centre. People are going to be bussed in. Three buses are going to be used. I can tell you that there are going to be more than 1 190 families there. My concern is, and I hope you don’t overlook this, that we are saying to the ANC that they shouldn’t politicise this, and they are politicising it. [Interjections.] We are saying: Let the church organisations and NGOs do the food distribution. [Interjections.] They are the right bodies to do so. [Time expired.]

Ms S P RWEXANA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and members of the National Assembly, the ANC supports the budget. In 1993 the ANC embarked on a policy process in preparation for the new government. The ANC welfare desk developed a welfare policy document which later became a policy-guiding document for welfare transformation in this country. It is indeed in this policy document, where various options are discussed, where how best to restore our people’s dignity that was lost in the past is also discussed.

It is therefore in this light that the vision of building multipurpose centres and employing development workers was considered to be the best option, firstly, by redressing the imbalances of the past and, secondly, by employing development workers as a key tool in attacking poverty.

In South Africa there has been an overreliance on professional social workers. The White Paper on social welfare identified as a priority the need to expand human resource capacity through the employment of other categories of social service personnel, such as child and youth care workers, community development workers, social development workers and volunteers.

This priority is in line with the Government’s policy that Government resources be spent on creating an environment that promotes the development of all our communities, especially those that were neglected for decades during the apartheid era.

Community workers have a crucial role to play in community development. For instance, they could be professionally trained people, and could also be unemployed, untrained persons who form part of a community. The community worker must act as an enabling force, linking local community needs and energies with resources and institutions - not only those of Government but also those of private and corporate donors. For example, they could be employed by the Government or perform voluntary services within a civil- society organisation. They could be persons who already have jobs, or those who have retired but can offer their expertise and skills. Alternatively, they could be those amongst us who have not had any formal job opportunities.

Because the ANC wanted to ensure that this kind of initiative benefit the disadvantaged communities, it was recognised that community workers would often not have had any training. Therefore, the concept was further strengthened by the initiative undertaken by Vivian Taylor in establishing a training institution for development workers at UWC, the SA Development Education Programme (Sadep).

The main objectives of this institution were to establish comprehensive training for development workers; to empower those who were involved in community work for years without certification; and to develop awareness programmes in terms of training, giving workers skills in community development which would enable them to be pioneers in transformation at all government levels.

The notion of development workers represents an important shift from a casework approach, which is highly specialised and expensive, to a preventative approach. This approach seeks to use scarce resources in such a way that they prevent social problems. One of the most important ways in which prevention work impacts on a community is that it aims to mobilise a community to have an active and meaningful say in its own development. These development ideals were encapsulated in the Reconstruction and Development Programme.

There was a bit of uncertainty when the RDP office was streamlined into various departments. However, 10 years of experience have shown, again, that there is a need to revisit the issue in order to speed up transformation and delivery.

In his state of the nation address, the President did not hesitate when he pointed out the importance of establishing echelons of multiskilled development workers. Here there would be the necessity of the Department of Social Development working closely with other departments, such as Agriculture, Education, Health, Public Works and so on, to develop a comprehensive, integrated and well-co-ordinated programme. We have to succeed, because it is the right thing to do.

Again, following the President’s speech, the programmes of NGOs and institutions which were meant to strengthen the implementation of the above should be revisited. The know-how and experience gained at that time should not be lost. From the Batho Pele, Letsema, Vukuzenzele, Faranani and Tshwaranang campaigns it has became clear that the involvement of the masses in this country is the only effective way of speeding up transformation, just as it happened during our mass campaigns before the 1994 elections.

In conclusion, in response to the call made by the President, a working group has been put together to look at the criteria for the establishment of a professional body of development workers in terms of section 14A(i) of the Social Service Professions Act; to take forward the registration of development workers to mid-2003; and, for Government to have a career path for development workers and to create job opportunities. If we want to have an impact on a considerable scale on the development of communities, then a core of well-trained development workers is essential. Therefore, it would indeed be the case that development workers would be the vanguard of poverty alleviation. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, before you leave the podium, I want to say that we omitted to announce that this was your maiden speech, but you handled it so well that it need not have been covered by that privilege. [Applause.]

Mme M A SEECO: Motlotlegi, Tona ya Lefapha la Tlhabolololoago, bagaetsho ba lebogela matsapa a Puso e a tsholang go bona gore mongwe le mongwe o lala a beile fa ntshung. Motlotlegi Tona, a tekanyetsokabo eno, e ne e ka se thuse go tlhamela bone ba ba kobo di khutswane ditiro tse di ka ba thusang botshelo botlhe go ipelega, maikaelelo e le go sa nne mokgweleo wa Puso, ka “phiri a rile ga bo se gangwe”.

UCDP e ikuela gore bone batho ba ba otliwang ba, ba ithuthe gore motho o tshela ka mofufutso wa phatla ya gagwe. Ba rata go farologanya go tshela ka diphuthelwana, go na le go itirela botshelo ba leruri, ba tle ba ithuthe go somarela tse ba di fufuletsweng. Seno se ka thibela tirisoe-boatla ya madi a baduela-lokgetho. Bana ba rona ba ka kgaotsa go itshimololela kgwebo, ka go belega bana ba ba tla lebelelang lefapha la ga Motlotlegi go ba otla.

UCDP e go akgole, go bo o bone go tshwanela go okeletsa botlhe ba ba amogelang madi a bogodi le go sa itekanela. Mokgwa wa go tlhama di tiro o tla ba thusa go iteboga, ka se Puso e se ba direlang. Bana ba motho ba kgaogana tlhogwana ya tsie. Ba leboga fa motlotlegi a lemogile karolo ya dikhutsana tse ba di godisang tse metsi a šeleng di a lebile. Ke ka fao ba reng matlo go ša mabapi. Bagolo ba ga Rratlou kwa Thaba Nchu ba ikuela gore tekanyetso kabo eno, e ba tlhabololele mafelo a go amogela penšene. Ba tlhoka lefelo le le sireletsegileng, le le nang le metsi le matlwana. Pelaelo ke gore le kwa mafelong a mangwe go ntse jalo.

Tekanyetsokabo eno e ka tokafatsa sekema sa phepo ya dikolo tsotlhe, bogolo tsa kwa magaeng. UCDP e amogela tekanyetsokabo e. [Legofi.] (Translation of Tswana speech follows.)

[Mrs M A SEECO: Hon Minister of Social Development, our people appreciate the pains taken by Government to see to it that every person goes to sleep with something in his or her stomach. Hon Minister, shouldn’t this budget help in providing the poor people with jobs that would help them for a lifetime, because tomorrow is another day?

The UCDP is appealing that these people who are being fed, should learn that one reaps what one has sown. They like to live with hand-outs, rather than living a sustainable life, so that they should learn to save what they have battled for. This might prevent misuse of taxpayers’ money. Our children will be able to start their own businesses and will not look to the hon Minister’s department to feed them.

The UCDP congratulates you on having increased the amount for those who receive pensions and disability grants. The method of creating jobs will help them with what the Government is doing for them. People should share the little that they have. They thank the hon Minister for realising that they are raising orphans who have lost their parents. It is for that reason that we say that people should help each other. The elders of Rratlou at Thaba Nchu make an appeal that this budget should be used to develop places at which they receive their pension. They need a secure place, one with running water and toilets. It is suspected that other places are like this, as well.

This budget could improve the feeding schemes at all schools, particularly those in the rural areas. The UCDP accepts this budget. [Applause.]]

Mrs T J TSHIVHASE: Chairperson, my speech will focus on the needs of child- headed households.

ANC i khou tikedza mugaganyagwama hoyu. Muṱhomphei Muphuresidende kha tshipitshi tshavho tsha u vula Phalamennde, vho amba na lushaka nga ha nyengedzedzo ya magavhelo a vhulonda-vhapo vho hangeneaho lwa tshoṱhe tshitshavhani. Izwi zwo itelwa u bvisa vhushai vhathuni. [The ANC supports this budget. During the state of the nation address, the President spoke about increasing the social grants to highly affected people in the community. This has been done to alleviate poverty amongst people.]

During his response, the President spoke about pushing back the frontiers of poverty, expanding access to a better life for all, and translating these into the lives of our people who were previously described as surplus people.

Havha vhana vho dzielwa zwihulu nga yeneyo nḓila. Vha na ṱhoḓea dza shishi zwo livhana na ``income security, food security, access to education and access to health care services’’. Nga ngoho, Muvhuso washu wo livhana na khaedu ya vhana vha ngaho vhenevha vhane vha khou ṱhogomela miṱa ya vhabebi vhane a vha tsheho. Vhana avho vha ima sa dziṱhoho dza yeneyo miṱa sa izwi vha songo tou zwi funa, zwo vhangwa nga dwadze-tshifu HIV/Eidzi kana mabulayo nga ngomu miṱani.

Muvhuso u khou lavhelesa ``stigma confidentiality’’ na nḓaḓo ine havha vhana vha vha khayo. Ndi ngazwo Muvhuso u tshi khou tea u thivhela nga ṋungo dzoṱhe uri vhana vha zwiṱaraṱani vha songo tsha vhonala tshitshivhani, na u thivhela lushaka kha masiandaitwa a muvhuso wa tshiṱalula wo fhiraho. Sa zwenezwo, Muvhuso wo vhona zwo fanela u engedzedza mugaganyagwama uyu, u itela u lwa na vhushai uri vhana vha wane magavhelo. Izwi zwo itwa nga mihasho yo vhalaho. Zwifhaṱuwo zwavho zwi vho penya-vho.

Ro lavhelesa pfunzo, vhana havha vha ḓo tea u bviswa kha u badela mitendelo zwikoloni. Vha tea u wana gavhelo ḽa u thusa u bva kha miṅwaha ya 14 u swika 18, ngauri ndi vhaṱhogomeli vha tsiwana idzo dziṅwe. Vho fara miṱa vha tshiimoni tsha vhabebi.

Vha tea u wana zwiḽiwa na zwiambaro zwi ṋetshedzwaho vho shayaho na nga madzangano a si a muvhuso sa dzi NGOs, CBOs, FBOs, the private sector, trade unions'' ngauralo-ngauralo, u phalala Muvhuso. Mihasho i ngaho sa ya Vhulimi, Mishumo ya Muvhuso na wa Mutakalo i tea u longa tshanḓa zwo khwaṱha sa izwi i khasocial cluster’’ na dzi ``parastatals’’ u fana na dzi IDT, NDA, CSIR na Stats SA.

Kha hu vhe na u phalala zwisiwana izwi zwi vhone-vho tshanduko matshiloni azwo nga vhuḓalo. Zwi ḓiphine-vho nga mitshelo ya mbofholowo nahone vhu vhe vhutshilo ha khwine kha vhoṱhe lwa u tou thoma. Vhana havha vha tea u ḓiphina sa vhaṅwe, sa izwi vha tshi tea u wana ṱhogomelo na vhududo ha vhabebi kha Muvhuso.

Mbekanyamushumo ya u lifhela mitendelo tshikoloni, mbekanyamushumo ya u lwa na vhushai na ndondolo mahayani na ya miṱa yo kavhiwaho nga HIV/Eidzi, ndi zwine Muvhuso wa vha kati nazwo u itela u vhulunga vhumatshelo ha vhana, na uri avho vhana vha ṱhogomelaho miṱa sa dziṱhoho - sa vho welaho miṱureni iyo vha ṱoḓa thuso yoṱhe.

Hu tea u vha na u itwa zwi tevhelaho sa tsitsinyo maelana na tshireledzo ya avha vhana amendments to the social security Act to include the community appointing a caretaker adult to supervise the household as well''. Tsha vhuvhili, u ṱuṱuwedza tshitshavha uri tshi vhone uri vhana avho vhoṱhe vha a ṅwalisiwa u itela uri vha wanechild support grant’’. Tsha vhuraru, u amba hune zwa konea hone, sa tsumbo, ``Letsema volunteers’’ sa zwe zwa ambiswa zwone nga Muphuresidennde kha u vulwa ha Phalamennde. Tsha vhuṋa, hu tea u vha na vhashumi-vhabveledzi kha tshitshavha u thusa uri vhana vha si vhe mihwalo kha vhakomana vhavho. Vha tea u pfa vho ṱanganedzea tshitshavhani.

Tsha vhuṱaṋu, tshitshavha na Muhasho wa Vhulamukanyi na Mveledziso ya Mulayotewa na Muhasho wa Mbavhalelo na Tsireledzo zwi tea u vhona zwa uri vhana avho vho tsireledzea, ri sa hangwi mahosi na dzikereke. Ndi mushumo wavho u londola zwisiwana. Vhana vha tea u wana pfanelo dzavho dzoṱhe sa zwe Mulayotewa wa shango wa zwi angaredza.

Yesu na ene o dzhiela vhana nṱha. Zwo ralo-vho na kha Muvhuso uno wo rangwaho phanḓa nga ANC. U vhea vhana nṱha kha adzhenda yawo sa izwi vhana vha vhone lupfumo na vharangaphanḓa vha matshelo. Sa zwenezwo, hu tea u vha na vhutshilo ha khwine kha vhoṱhe. ANC i tenda kha zwa ``united action to push back the frontiers of poverty’. Mugaganyagwama wo zwi dzhiela nṱha nahone ndi ngazwo wo engedzedza tshelede lwa tshifhinga tshilapfu. (Translation of Venḓa paragraphs follows.)

[The children from poor families are extremely affected in this way. They have urgent needs when it comes to income security, access to education and access to health-care services. It is the truth that our Government is faced with the challenge of children like these, who are heading households because their parents have passed away. Those children are acting as parents of those households. They don’t like it, and it was caused by the dreadful disease of HIV/Aids or killings in the homes.

The Government is looking at the stigma with confidence, especially the confusion that is facing these children. That is why the Government is supposed to stop the issue of street children with all its might. These street children must not be seen amongst the community. The Government has to help the community left behind by the past apartheid regime. Therefore, the Government considered it necessary to increase this budget in order to alleviate poverty and to ensure that children get the grants. That was done by several departments. These children have smiles on their faces.

Regarding education, these children must be exempted from paying school fees. They must get grants to help them from 14 to 18 years of age, because they are taking care of other orphans. They are heading the households in the place of parents. They must get food and clothes which are handed to those who are suffering by organisations such as the NGOs, CBOs, FBOs, the private sector, trade unions and so on, to assist the Government. Departments such as those of Agriculture and Land Affairs, Public Enterprises and Health must also participate because they belong to the social cluster, as well as parastatals such as IDT, NDA, CSIR and Stats SA.

There must be help for these children so that they can see a complete change in their lives. They must also enjoy the fruits of freedom. Furthermore, there must be a better life for all for the first time. These children must enjoy themselves, just like others. They must get the support and warmth of the parents from the Government.

The Government is currently dealing with the school fees programme, poverty alleviation and home-based care for those who are infected by HIV/Aids in order to protect the future of the children because they are looking after their households. Firstly, the following proposal must be made in connection with the security of children, namely amendments to the social security Act to include the community appointing a caretaker adult to supervise the household, as well.

Secondly, the community must be encouraged to register these children so that they can get the child support grant. Thirdly, people must participate where possible, for example, as Letsema volunteers, as stated by the President when opening Parliament. Fourthly, there must be people in the community to help so that these children do not burden their elder brothers or sisters. They must feel accepted within the community. Fifthly, the community and the Departments of Justice and Constitutional Development and Safety and Security must see to it that those children are protected, not forgetting chiefs and churches. It is their task to take care of orphans. Children must get all their rights that are enshrined in the Constitution of the country.

Even Jesus prioritised children. It is the same with this ANC-led Government. The Government puts children at the top of its agenda because they are our wealth and our future leaders. Therefore, there must be a better life for all. The ANC believes in a united action in pushing back the frontiers of poverty. This budget took that into consideration and that is why the money has been increased to be paid out over a longer period.]

Finally, recognition must be given to the fact that children are not the responsibility of the Department of Social Development alone. Government’s interventions can only have maximum effect and impact if resources are spent in a coherent and integrated manner. While Social Development may take the lead in the process, the Departments of Home Affairs, Health, Education, Housing, and Waters and Forestry have to accept their shared responsibility for the wellbeing of all children of South Africa.

Ndi lwa u thoma vhana vhashu vha tshi vhona-vho zwo vha teaho - zwauri vha thogomelwe-vho. Ri tshi sedza namusi havha vhana vha vho pfa-vho phambano ya vhutshilo. Hezwi zwithu zwa vhana vha si na mahaya - vha tshitaratani, rine vhomme ri pfa zwi tshi ri kwama vhukuma, zwihuluhulu ANC ine ya dzhiela vhutshilo ha vhathu ntha. [For the first time our children can see it is possible that they can be taken care of. Today these children can feel the difference in their lives. The issue of street children, children without homes, has an extreme effect on us as mothers, especially within the ANC, which prioritises the lives of people.]

A child is a treasure of the country. The ANC has great concerns when it comes to children. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, the MF notes the importance of this department. Poverty alleviation and the instituting of a caring society are necessary for a state to function. After all, we are a government by the people for the people.

Under the programme of development implementation support, the aims involve attempts to initiate strategies to mitigate the impact of HIV/Aids. We all know the impact that this killer disease has on our society, with the area of KwaZulu-Natal having the highest statistics on infected persons. This is eating away at our economy, and the problem has to be brought under control. Thus, the MF supports the amount allocated to this programme, which will also address poverty and community development.

The MF is especially supportive of the advancement of the department in providing social grants and, as estimated by the budget, there will be a substantial contribution this year too. South Africans are hampered largely by their state of poverty. These funds that are made available, assist in improving living conditions and in securing a better life for South Africans. It is hoped that the amount allocated, which is almost double that of last year, will be utilised effectively and efficiently to meet ends, especially in terms of the child support grant.

The department’s programme on social security, policy and planning is an important instrument in enhancing and ensuring the wellbeing of South African people. The MF supports the department and its budget which is allocated to adequately fulfilling this task. Intolerance of abuse and other forms of human violation has to be heard, and the department is our instrument in doing this.

The empowerment of children, families and communities is essential to providing and maintaining a healthy society. The Bill of Rights, in the national Constitution, enshrines many human rights and entitlements of our people. However, it is through developed policy and effective implementation that these can become reality in action. The MF stands by the department in making this reality possible. The department works closely with provincial bodies and NGOs to ensure this reality, thus the budget in this respect is welcomed.

Last of all, a hand has to be kept on the population by constantly monitoring its status. By doing so, the population’s needs and other issues can be tackled. Knowing what society constitutes spells out our needs and fuels strategy planning which can soon be converted into action.

We are here to eradicate the injustices of the past, to give back to our people their dignity and rights, and to attain better living conditions. The MF applauds and voices its support for all the department’s endeavours. The task would be made easier if all roleplayers played their part. The MF supports Budget Vote 19 - Social Development. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE: Chairperson, no nation can have pride and dignity whilst the majority of its people live in abject and squalid conditions. The black community has endured decades of humiliation and poverty. The apartheid policy of marginalisation and lack of respect for black people’s lives made many black children suffer from many kinds of diseases, let alone the fact that they grew up and became adults without knowing how to read and write.

When money is set aside to deal with this problem, Azapo will always lend its support. We lend our support, knowing full well that money on its own will never remove the centuries and scars of oppression.

Azapo thinks that this budget has indeed gone a long way towards the eradication of this problem and poverty, and what now needs to be done is to monitor that the money reaches the targeted sections of our society. The delivery mechanisms should be improved. Government officials who misuse these resources should be dealt with severely. Strict monitoring mechanisms should be put in place, particularly at provincial and local government levels. However, when going through this budget, we noticed a trend that seems to suggest that the question of the physically impaired members of our society is not being adequately addressed. There does not seem to be a national programme spearheaded by the department to integrate these members of our society into everyday life.

To date, Comrade Minister, all the stages of evolution in disability - be they visual, mental or physical - have had one thing in common, namely the condemnation of persons who are physically impaired from receiving grants, thereby marginalising them from the communities they come from. This is a problem that all of us must attend to.

To Azapo what is in question is whether these impairments, in themselves, lead necessarily to disability. We want to urge you, sir, to give this matter your utmost attention. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr B M SOLO: Deputy Chairperson, Minister Skweyiya, Deputy Ministers, hon members and other people present, the key challenges facing not only Government, but also the whole of South African society, are poverty and inequality. This situation arises out of the past policies of the apartheid regime, a fact that no one can deny.

For many years South Africans were divided, with some privileged, resourced, supported and strengthened economically, while others, who happened to be the vast majority and black, were denied every material resource and subjected to abject conditions of poverty.

Today, with a democratic system of Government, we have to address this problem in real terms. As we have heard from previous speakers, the need to deal decisively with poverty can be neither denied nor delayed. We have to develop programmes, structures and systems that will lead us to our primary objective, namely to fight poverty together for a better life for all.

Among other things, the ANC-led Government has created institutions concentrated, in a focused way, on poverty alleviation in an economic sense. One of the key organisations is the National Development Agency whose mandate is to contribute towards eradicating poverty and strengthening the capacity of civil society organisations to combat poverty.

Accordingly, the Budget Vote attempts to make material provisions in order to achieve this objective. The most important factor is to ensure a strong institutional arrangement that is able to support nongovernmental organisations and community-based organisations in their developmental programmes. As the department co-ordinates poverty relief programmes, it has been tasked with the responsibility of overseeing the NDA. This is in line with the strong, current focus on sustainable development and income- generating initiatives.

The Social Development budget for the 2003-04 financial year allocates an amount of about R657 million to the NDA. This is an increase of more than R6 million from the previous year. This should be welcome, and it shows our commitment to poverty eradication and inequality. It is in line with ANC policy derived from the Freedom Charter. Therefore, we expect the National Development Agency to be able to carry out its tasks and mandate.

Institutions like the NDA are meant to facilitate strong partnerships between civil society and Government, particularly around poverty alleviation programmes. Now, we need to be clear about where the poor are located, and what their culture, language and norms are. Are we actually talking to that group? Are we using mechanisms and processes that the poor understand and, as such, able to access the programmes? We need to move away from looking at poor people as just people. We need to do the things we have to do.

Kufanele ukuthi abasebenzi be-NDA nabo benze umsebenzi wokuthuthukisa abantu, baphumele obala baye ebantwini, babachazele kabanzi, babasize futhi babone ukuthi nabo bayakwazi ukuzuza kulezi zinqubo ezibekwe nguHulumeni. [NDA officials must also perform community development functions by going out to the people to give them more information, to help them and to ensure that they also benefit from these government-initiated programmes.]

We should remember that most black people were denied opportunities and access to the economic mainstream through the social engineering policies of the past which were based on racism.

Now, it is for the NDA to demonstrate its ability to carry out its task, as it states in its mission that it wants to enable the poor, the vulnerable and the excluded people in South African society to secure a better life for themselves, in partnership with them and with all those who are committed to building a caring society. If these resources are properly managed and used, I believe that we can have a positive impact on the question of pushing back the frontiers of poverty.

Abantu bethu bakwazile ukuthi bazithuthukise, bazifundise ukuthunga, ukubhaka kanye nokwenza izitini. Sikholelwa ukuthi uma bengathola usizo olufanele, basizwe ngendlela efanelekile, bangakwazi ukuthi nabo baqhubeke namabhizinisi abo athuthuke afane namanye amabhizinisi. [Our people managed to developed themselves, to teach themselves to sow, to bake and to make bricks. We believe that if they were to be offered sufficient assistance and aided appropriately, they could progress further and their businesses could grow and be like any other business.]

The President was correct to say in his state of the nation address:

Critically, some of these interventions must aim at ensuring that as many as possible of those who fall within this category move out of the trap within which they are caught. Accordingly, the Government must act to ensure that we reduce the number of people dependent on social welfare, increasing the numbers that rely for their livelihood on normal participation in the economy.

Abafuni abantu bethu kube sengathi baphila ngesihle. Banazo izandla, bayakwazi ukuzenzela. Incane nje into abayidingayo, ukuthi basizwe futhi baboniswe izindlela zokuthuthukisa amabhizinisi abo. Ngakho-ke kufanelekile ukuthi izimali ezikhishiwe ezinhlanganweni ezinjengo-NDA sibone ukuthi ziyafinyelela yini ebantwini sizokwazi ukuthi senze indlela efanelekile ukuthi abantu baziphilise, baphume esimeni esinzima sobumpofu.

Kukhona izinto okukhulunywe ngazo lapha ngabantu esibahloniphayo besonto, bakhomba iminwe kongqongqoshe. Kule nhlangano engikuyo asiyenzi leyo nto. Asiyenzi leyo nto singuKhongolose. Asikhethi bantu. Simele bonke abantu. Kubuhlungu-ke ukubona abantu esibahloniphayo nabathi bangamakhrestu adlula nathi imbala, bafike bame lapha bacabange ukuthi bame epulpiti bacabange ukuthi angeke baphikiswe. Bakhuluma ubuxoki namanga kakhulu ngoNgqongqoshe obekiwe ukuthi makaqhube lo msebenzi. UKhongolose umele bonke abantu futhi uzimisele ukuthi kuliwe nendlala nobumpufu.

Ayikho-ke le nto ebikhulunywa ngumama lapha. Besingathanda ukuthi eze nobufakazi obuphelele bokuthi thina sihlukanisa abantu. Sifuna ukuyicindezela-ke leyo nto leyo ukuthi abantu abaya esontweni nabathi bakhokhela isonto, mabangezi ukuzokuma lapha ngamagama esonto benze isonto kube sengathi into yokudlala. Siyalihlonipha kakhulu isonto singuHulumeni we-ANC. Sibahlonipha kakhulu abaphathi besonto. Asilindele ukuthi kube ngabokuqala ukuqamba amanga. Uma kungabantu besonto abaqamba amanga, sithi siyaphi? [Ihlombe.]

Silindele ukuba basisize beze nabantu ngaphambili, mhlawumbe abantu abampofu nabahluphekile. Siyathanda ukusho singuKhongolose ukuthi wena Gloria wehluleka kudala mntwana wabantu! Namanje awazi nokuthi umuntu okusebenzelayo ungubani igama lakhe. [Uhleko.] Ngizama ukuthi-ke kafushane laba bantu abahleli laphaya sizosebenzisana kanye nabo kanye nezinhlangano abanazo ukuthi bathuthukiswe futhi bakwazi ukuziphilisa. Asiphileli amahhala, siphilela ukuthi siphile impilo engcono kanye nabanye abantu futhi sifane nabanye abantu. Yikho lokhu senza izinhlangano zokusiza singachashazelwa yigazi elivela noma ngakuphi njengoba udadewethu ubekhuluma lapha, kuthiwe nguHulumeni we-ANC.

Izinhlangano zokusiza sizenza ukuthi kube ngezizimele, singayifaki kwezepolitiki indaba yokuhlupheka kwabantu bethu esiphethe kabuhlungu kakhulu. Ngalawo magama ngiyabonga kakhulu. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu paragraphs follows.)

[Our people do not want to be dependent on social welfare. They have hands. They are able to do things for themselves. There is only one little thing that they need, namely that they be given assistance and be shown ways of developing their businesses. It is imperative, therefore, that we must find out whether moneys that come from organisations such as the NDA do actually reach the people for whom they are intended or not, so that we may take appropriate action to ensure that our people are able to support themselves, so that they are able to get out of their difficult life of abject poverty.

Certain statements have been made here by some members of the church whom we hold in high esteem, but who pointed fingers at Cabinet Ministers. In this organisation, of which I am a member, we do no such thing. We do not do that in the ANC. We do not discriminate against anyone. We represent everybody. It is painful, therefore, to see people whom we hold in high esteem, claiming to be even better Christians than we are, standing here, thinking that they are standing at the pulpit, beyond contradiction. They speak blatant lies, especially about the Cabinet Minister who has been tasked to perform this function. The ANC represents everybody, and we are committed to fighting hunger and poverty.

There is no substance, therefore, to what was said here by that lady. We would like her to bring concrete evidence to show that we are deceiving the people. We want to emphasise the point that members of the church who claim to be leaders in the church, must not come and stand here in the name of the church, and make a mockery of the church. As the ANC-led Government, we respect the church. We hold church leaders in very high esteem. We do not expect them to be the first to tell lies. If the members of the church tell lies, where are we headed? [Applause.]

We expect them to help us by bringing to us people who are poor and destitute. We, as the ANC, want to say it outright that you, Gloria, failed a long time ago, poor thing! These days you do not even know the name of your domestic servant. [Laughter.] I am trying to say, briefly, that we are going to work together with the people who are staying there, as well as with their organisations, so that they may be developed and able to support themselves. Our lives are not meaningless. We are meant to live a better life with other people and be like everybody else. That is why we have established social welfare organisations so that we may not be blamed, from whatever quarter, as my sister did here earlier, when she blamed the ANC Government.

We have made all social welfare organisations independent, so that we do not politicise the issue of the poverty of our people, which concerns us greatly. With those words I thank you. [Applause.]]

Mr M L DA CAMARA: Chairperson, it has become established knowledge that experiences in childhood influence the quality of one’s life adulthood. Today, in South Africa, the experience of many children is one of poverty, abuse and underdevelopment. Given this situation, actions by the state to remedy this will have a profound effect on the future.

Right at the forefront of giving our children a fighting chance is the Department of Social Development and this budget. Its response to this task becomes the benchmark by which its success must be measured.

The first and foremost response is the provision of a child support grant to the very needy children in South Africa. The above-inflation-rate increase in the child support grant is therefore very welcome news indeed. For this, Government must be congratulated.

However, the congratulations end there. While everyone and especially the opposition was overwhelmed with joy when the announcement was made that the age limit for this grant would be increased to 14 years, disappointment soon set in. The fact is that children who are now between the ages nine and 14 will never become eligible to receive this grant. Imagine how devastated the mothers who need this grant the most and who were most enthusiastic upon its announcement, must have felt when it became painfully apparent that this was merely a disingenuous election ploy by the ANC?

I am sure that this must have come as a sudden and devastating blow from nowhere. It’s deplorable to raise the hopes of many mothers, only to let them know that their children will never be eligible for this grant.

Creating an environment in which children are protected from child abuse is another burden placed on the department. For this, the Minister needs to be commended for his efforts to see the Children’s Bill enacted. What a sad pity it is that his commitment and sense of urgency are not shared by his Cabinet colleagues.

Considering the high level of abuse against our children, procrastination has become intolerable as the future of many is being irrevocably ruined. Yet, it is becoming increasingly unlikely that this Bill will become law this year. If only it were given the same priority as the crossing-of-the- floor legislation, then perhaps there would be something else we could celebrate.

At the other end of the age scale is the vulnerability of older persons in South Africa. Once again, to the Minister’s credit, an initiative has been taken to respond to the urgent need to act on the abuse suffered by older persons. However, since the release of the report of the Committee of Inquiry into Elder Abuse little has changed. The committee’s recommendations, intended to safeguard the safety and dignity of older persons, have not been implemented.

Look at Government’s response in changing the situation of abuse and neglect. The victim helpline, Heal, receives a mere R30 000 annually. Support services, such as policing and social work, have not been made available to back this up. Victim empowerment programmes are not up and running; and there are no response units in seven of the nine provinces. This cannot go on.

Once again, an urgent call is made: Let us pass the Older Persons Bill and implement all the necessary recommendations as soon as possible. Our elders depend on it.

Allow me to say to young South Africans: Let us begin to show our elders the respect that we will one day want to receive from coming generations. Their wisdom and experience are not available on the Internet, so let’s treat them like the valuable people they are.

This department can and must succeed. Let us give it the urgency it needs. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M T MASUTHA: Chairperson, let me start by expressing serious disgust at some of the comments that have been made and the events that have taken place this afternoon. I think that this institution will give political parties ample opportunity to electioneer when the time arrives. They don’t have to pre-empt that by abusing this podium to try to score cheap political goals.

I am referring particularly to the utterances made by the hon Southgate against the Minister, which I think were really cheap indeed. Nevertheless, I think that should not derail us from our mission of pushing back the frontiers of poverty.

As a son and grandson, and a husband, father and brother, allow me, in rising to support this Budget Vote, to commence by inviting all men and boys of goodwill to join me in paying a special tribute to all the women and girls in our lives, be they our mothers, grandmothers, wives, daughters or sisters for the many special ways in which they touch our everyday lives. [Applause.]

We in the ANC use the expression: If you touch a woman, you touch a rock! Wa thinth’ umfazi, wa thinth’ imbokodo! Indeed, women are the bedrock upon which families, communities, nations and humanity as a whole are build. They give birth to children, nurture, support and raise them; create family environments in which children enjoy the love, attention and care needed for their upbringing. They often do this single-handedly and regardless, at times, of whether or not they have husbands or partners, or whether the fathers of their children, who should, but often fail to, share this responsibility with them.

Our Constitution, which is our supreme law and the pillar of our new and democratic society, states in section 28(1) that:

Every child has the right ÿ.ÿ.ÿ. to family care or parental care, or to appropriate alternative care when removed from the family environment; to basic nutrition, shelter, basic health care services and social services; to be protected from maltreatment, neglect, abuse or degradation.

On page 418 of the National Treasury: Estimates of National Expenditure, it is stated:

Over the next three years children are being prioritised through extended access to social assistance and the provision of more care and support to children and families affected and infected by HIV/Aids and by other circumstances which add to their vulnerability.

In particular …

It is stated further -

… the national department and its provincial counterparts will be implementing measures to prevent and combat abuse, neglect and the exploitation of children.

The Child Care Act of 1983 is the primary legislative measure regulating state intervention for the protection of children. Under that law, a police officer or social worker is empowered to enter any premises and, in certain circumstances without a warrant and by force, if necessary, to remove a child whose safety or wellbeing is at stake and to place such child in a place of safety, pending an inquiry by a commissioner of child welfare in a children’s court. Such an inquiry, which must determine whether a child is in need of care and the appropriate measures to address the child’s needs, has the power to remove the child to a children’s home, place the child under foster care, or order that the child remain with his or her parents subject to certain conditions, which may include supervision under a social worker.

There are a range of other measures contained in that law designed to enhance the care and protection of children, including the regulation of the system of adoption of children, prohibition against neglect, abuse and the sexual exploitation of children, and the legal obligation to report such incidents.

A number of improvements to this child-care system have been effected since 1996 through a series of amendments to this Act, but because of the fundamental and inherent defects in this law, which was developed prior to our current constitutional dispensation, its complete rewrite has now become long overdue. This budget therefore will be focusing on the development of a new comprehensive child-care statute which will, as one of its primary aims, seek to harmonise our law on children with our constitutional obligations and commitments under international law, such as the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Amongst the challenges that will have to be dealt with by this law will be the harmonisation of the different legal regimes governing or affecting the rights of children - be it the common law, statutory law, customary law or various religious laws - with the commitments and obligations we have towards children.

This matter ranges from revisiting the structure of the household and the family in its various forms - be it the nuclear family, the single-parent family, the extended or kinship family, or even the question of the child- headed household - and its responsibilities, that is families and households, towards children under their care and their entitlement to state support. This will focus on the various ways in which children must be protected and cared for, be this through various forms of alternative care, including kinship care; adoption; foster care; residential care, that is care in institutions such as children’s home; and, of course, the question of shelters for children living on the streets.

The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development is currently considering the Child Justice Bill, which provides for a range of measures designed to create a justice system that is appropriate for children. A number of responsibilities for various departments, including the Department of Social Development, flow out of this initiative.

These responsibilities include reducing the number of children awaiting trial in police cells and prisons through expanded diversion programmes, establishing secure-care facilities, appropriate placement of children following assessment by probation officers, appropriate sentencing options and the continual monitoring of children in prisons.

On the other hand, children who are victims of crime, especially physical and sexual abuse, require special attention. In a previous debate - approximately two weeks ago - I highlighted the various special measures initiated by Government, including the setting up of special sexual offences courts. Social Development has a critical role to play in supporting the criminal justice system in this regard, and resources will be needed to enable it to fulfil this role, as this budget also seeks to achieve.

Finally, social security in its broader context, that is both cash and in- kind benefits which are the most powerful and effective tool that Government is currently using to fight poverty by supporting poor households, plays a crucial role in enabling families and households to fulfil their obligations towards children. Our social assistance system currently provides for a range of social security measures directed specifically at children. These include foster care grants for children placed under foster care, care dependency grants for severely disabled children and, of course, the child support grant for all other poor children under the age of seven.

The announcement to extend the child support grant to children under nine this year and to those up to the age of 14 in the next three years comes as very welcome news indeed. Currently, it is reported that some 2,5 million children are benefiting from this grant, a figure that is remarkable, indeed, given the fact that this grant was introduced only four years ago.

It is, however, also necessary to mention that social grants provided to the elderly and to disabled people often serve as the only source of support, not only for those targeted by the grants, but for their entire households, including the children living in those households, therefore shielding the children in those households from the damaging impact of poverty. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.] The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, the ANC Chief Whip is harassing me and I would really plead for your protection! [Laughter.]

I want to thank all the members for their participation in the debate. Quite obviously, the issue that we are debating here must affect each and every South African and each and every decent human being that lives in this country.

It is quite obvious that in principle we might not necessarily agree on some of the issues, but I would really appeal to members not to politicise the poverty and suffering of our people, specifically children. It is something that all of us ought to agree that it should not happen. For that reason I think there is no need for us to be differing on such issues.

However, I would like, in that whole process, to reply to a few of the issues that have been raised. Quite obviously, I would start with that hon gentleman’s comments - Mr Celland-Stokes or something like that. An HON MEMBER: Clelland-Stokes!

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Clelland! Your Excellency, the issue of a Basic Income Grant is one that has emanated from the debates within the democratic movement - and by ``democratic movement’’ I mean those that fought against apartheid. It is something that has been discussed for years, including the question of social security.

This is the reason why we brought it to the Jobs Summit in 1996 or 1997. We decided that it was something all South Africans ought to discuss. We as the ANC, the democratic movement and the alliance put it to you, the South African, as something that all of us had to find ways to see if it was feasible or not.

In the final analysis, in 1999 I appointed a commission of inquiry to deal with this issue. Whatever they recommended, we as Government had to see if it was feasible or not. We found that one of the main issues we ought to look into was the need for comprehensive social security that would encompass all South Africans.

Quite obviously, I come from such a family: with me this is not a theory, Mr Clelland-Stokes. I come from such a family. It’s here in Guguletu at the present moment. I know what is meant by hunger; going to bed without eating and then waking up the following day to walk to school. This was quite normal. Ninety percent of the people here come from such families ÿ.ÿ.ÿ. [Interjections.] … unlike Tony here, who comes from a very rich family, but then stands here and tells the natives what to do about that hunger. [Applause.]

It is something that is deep in us …

… Tony kaLeon, into yokuba ukulamba kuyasetyenzelwa. [… that hunger is something to work against.]

I am just telling you that. You don’t have to come here and tell us about what happens under those circumstances. The ANC will not be bamboozled into doing things that it knows are not possible. We would like to give each and everybody that basic income grant. We would like to ensure that each and every family eats every night.

The basic question is, how do we do that? We have a problem here. We introduced the child support grant to be given to each and every child under the age of seven in this country. Up to the present moment half a million children are still not getting that. The money is there, but the question is how to bring it to the people.

The type of Public Service we have is incapable of doing that. [Interjections.] In the final analysis, we as South Africans have to ask ourselves how best we can do that. That issue has been raised with the broader South African public and the churches and NGOs have come forward to say that it can be done. The number of recipients has been increased from 60 000 to 2,6 million today.

This was done by ordinary South Africans - those people sitting there in the gallery. [Applause.] Those are the people who did that as a contribution to society at large and to the community from which they come, black and white. They are not sitting here expecting to be paid through their own taxes, or pontificating to the natives as to what should be done. It does not work like that. [Interjections.]

So, Mr Stokes-Lelland - whatever it is - a little bit of thinking is required, not just to be told by the hon Tony Leon: Here is a piece of paper, go and read. You as a member of the DA must stand up and speak for yourself, and not just be told by another man what to say. [Applause.]

I agree fully with Mrs Mars’s comments. I agree with everything she said. Dr Buthelezi has been saying some of the things she said for quite a long time, and I agree with him. Even yesterday the issue of the disintegration of subsistence agriculture amongst our people was raised. Included is the issue of food security. It is an issue that all of us ought to be looking into and ensuring that it is dealt with. Quite obviously, there has been problems in so far as bringing these services to our people is concerned. The question is still about the same compromise that we, as the ANC, made, specifically with regard to the Public Service. Those are the results of that, nine to 10 years later, ie a Public Service that is unable to deliver what it ought to be delivering. [Interjections.]

Mrs Olckers, I agree with you too. It is quite obvious that there are problems, specifically on the issue of children, ie the question of their safety and almost all the other issues that you raised.

Mr Mbadi, I think you and I need to work together. You ought to make sure that children receive what is due to them. I will go back to your constituency in Qumbu and Tsolo, and I hope to meet you there so that we can be able, together, to resolve some of the issues you raised. I was there about two weeks ago, but you were not there. [Laughter.]

I also agree with Comrade Judy Chalmers, because the issues that she raised are quite obvious. The estimates of hunger and deprivation that were put out by Statistics SA are too conservative. They do not really reflect the reality on the ground. They also cover a lot of areas, but have left out many others. For instance, Limpopo was not involved in that.

Secondly, in the Eastern Cape they did not go to the western part of that province, specifically the Karoo. They never touched it. That might be right, but there are other people who live in areas other than those.

I do not want to delve in some of the issues. I agree with Mr Nefolovhodwe on the issues he raised regarding disability. Those are issues we should look into, working together.

Finally, I appeal to the ACDP to take a little bit of control over the young ladies there … [Interjections] … with a little bit of Christianity on top. [Laughter.] The issue is not to show off the miniskirt here, but to speak directly on issues. [Interjections.]

The reality is that she is trying to politicise something that has not been politicised at the present moment. She is talking about something that she says will happen tomorrow. It has not happened. Mr Chair, I use this opportunity to appeal to you, and to tell you that I am going to complain, within the Rules of this House, for being maligned by the hon lady on something that I have not done, something which she says I will do tomorrow. [Interjections.] I really don’t understand what she is talking about. [Interjections.] I really appeal to her.

The issue that is at stake, or what I am trying to say is that there have been moves and accusations … [Interjections.]

Mrs R M SOUTHGATE: Chairperson, the Minister made reference to my miniskirt. I would just like to classify that as sexual harassment, and I will be taking it up with the Speaker. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: There have been moves to try to politicise the whole question of food distribution. It has gone very, very well in almost all the provinces. I would say in almost all the provinces, because the families themselves have been … [Interjections.]

Mr D H M GIBSON: Chairperson, a point of order: The hon Ms Southgate stood up on a point of order. Is the Chair going to rule? The comment was quite clearly sexist, and I think the hon Minister should be instructed to withdraw it. [Interjections.] At the same time, he might also withdraw the comments he made about other people’s names. He mustn’t do that. That’s racist. [Interjections.]

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: There is nothing racist about that! [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, there is an outstanding ruling from an earlier point of order in this debate, and I am going to address both points as soon as the Minister has concluded his speech.

Minister, you are running out of time.

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: I am trying to explain something here. The food distribution programme has gone on very well, except for the accusations that have been made about it, which we investigated. Quite obviously, there were concerns that were raised in KwaZulu-Natal on this issue. The accusation there was that the whole process was party- politically aligned. Both the ANC and the IFP made accusations about one another.

We sat down and asked the people concerned to look into that. It turned out that this was not so. It was just a question of protocol on the part of the nongovernmental organisations that went into those areas without informing the communities. They did not come from those areas and, as such, were regarded with suspicion by both sides. That led to a lot of problems. [Applause.] The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, with regard to the point of order raised by the Deputy Chief Whip of the Majority Party earlier in the debate, Hansard is currently trying to get us a copy of the recordings. It will, therefore, not be possible to rule on that during the course of this debate. Although Mrs Southgate has withdrawn, we will assess Hansard to see if there is anything further that needs to be done.

On the last point of order raised by Mrs Southgate, we will again study Hansard and then report back to the House. This will be done at the earliest opportunity.

Debate concluded.

        HAVE CONDITIONS IN SOUTH AFRICA IMPROVED SINCE 1994?

                      (Subject for Discussion)

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr Chairman, colleagues, the hon Minister of Social Development made a very interesting speech. Apart from the fact that he claims to represent a nonsexist party, but casts sexist aspersions against hon members of this House, and then disparages people in this House who have a certain surname …

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Chairperson, I rise on a point of order … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I will not have it from anyone in this House that when someone rises on a point of order, you also make your contribution at the same time. I will listen only to the hon Chief Whip and to no one else at this moment. Thank you.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Chairperson, I have a point of order. The reason why that very same issue has not been pursued even by ourselves, much as we have our own particular views on the issue, is precisely because as members of this House we have to respect the ruling that was made by the hon Chair. So, in that regard, we would also ask the hon member, the Leader of the Opposition, to do exactly the same.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Mr Leon, the position is that the Chief Whip of the DA rose on a point of order in support of the hon Southgate. The Chair ruled that he was going to combine those and make a ruling on them. I think that while we await that ruling, we should not therefore refer further to that matter until the ruling is given.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr Chairman, the hon Minister then went on to say that if we are talking about poverty … [Interjections.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Order! Deputy Chairperson, the same statement that starts with ``then went on’’ suggests that it is in pursuance of the same issue that we have said they should not pursue. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! [Interjections.] Order! [Interjections.] Order - on both sides - order! Hon Leon, you may proceed, provided that you take cognisance of the ruling that I have given in that, in a manner of speaking, it is now sub judice and that until that ruling is given, further reference should not be made to that issue. [Interjections.]

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you, Mr Chairman. This is not a court of law, but I bow to your ruling.

The hon Minister went on to say … [Interjections.] I don’t understand, Mr Chairman. [Interjections.] The hon Minister went on to say that we should not, under any circumstances, politicise poverty, and that it is something that should not be in the political discourse as a matter of dispute. However, the reality is that your party, sir, politicises poverty.

In the last general election in 1999, you went before the people of South Africa with millions of posters that said: “Speeding up change and fighting poverty.” That was your central offer. [Interjections.] Many would say the reality is that you have actually fought change and speeded up poverty, but that is a matter of interpretation. [Interjections.]

Hon Minister, you went to the people and said: “We need more seats. We need more votes to make that a reality.” So, you have politicised poverty. You demanded votes in order to speed up change and fight poverty. Now, sir, on the eve of the general election you say that that is off limits politically, and that we are not to talk about it. However, I say, sir, that is the mandate you sought. And if you are in breach of your mandate, then you must go back to the people on the facts.

We can have an argument here about who is thinner and who is fatter in this House. However, I suggest, this is not necessarily a debate that the ANC is going to win. We could also say that despite what our Constitution says …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, are you rising a point of order? Mr N J GOGOTYA: Chairperson, I am rising on point of order. [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, as I said to you, I take amiss your making comments while a point of order is being taken. I will have to name some of you if you continue to do that. Yes, hon member?

Mr N J GOGOTYA: Will the hon Leader of the Opposition, the hon Tony Leon …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, I want to know what your point of order is.

Mr N J GOGOTYA: My point of order is: Why is he so worked up? Can’t he keep his cool? [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! [Interjections.] Hon member, it does not behove the decorum of this House to rise on a spurious point of order. [Laughter.] [Applause.] Please will you take your seat.

Hon member, carry on.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr Chairman, unfortunately that hon member spent far too much time in the employ of the department of military intelligence in the previous regime, hence his bogus points of order. [Interjections.]

The central question here is: Nearly 10 years after this Government was elected to power, it has delivered on some promises, but it has failed, crucially, to deliver on other promises. The central issue is that for many people the much-spoken-of, the much-promised, better life has not materialised. [Interjections.]

A recent study told us - you can disparage studies and dispute papers - that 59% of South Africans have trouble buying food, and that 79% are dissatisfied with the way things are going in this country. That is an overwhelming majority. It is those needs and those priorities which should be put centre stage in this Parliament, not bogus points of order and fripperies which we hear from time to time. [Interjections.]

We could spend the whole of this debate, Mr Turok, scoring points off each other, but I don’t think that that is going to do anything. What we need to do is to look at some facts. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Nobody is entitled to their own facts. The Government will say, and the Government says persistently and takes millions of our rands, of taxpayer’s money to advertise the fact that the real problem in South Africa is a problem of perceptions or, to borrow from the political book of Mr P W Botha, that it’s all a problem about patriotism, or it’s a problem about the opposition.

In fact, it’s not about perceptions. It’s not about the opposition. It is about central governing facts in this country. Here they are: Jobs are down; crime is up; growth is slow; and disease is decimating our population. [Interjections.] These are the facts. They are not an opinion. They all precede from other equally hard facts. Here they are: Since 1995 black unemployment has risen - it has not gone down - from 46% to 55%. The problem is not just that more people have entered the labour force, but that, in fact, our economy has, in a real and actual sense, shed hundreds of thousands of jobs.

Regarding my other friend over there, the hon Godfrey Oliphant, we spent many hours in the old Portfolio Committee on Labour in the previous Parliament, having a debate about whether every piece of legislation that was being pushed through here would increase or decrease the number of jobs. The facts indicate - not my opinion and not what Cosatu says - that, in fact, unfortunately, he was wrong. Half a million fewer people were employed by the year 2001 than they were in 1995. Unemployment continues to rise. Thirty per cent of all those who are seeking jobs cannot find them. If we include those who have given up trying, unemployment rises to nearly 41%. That was announced not by me, not by the department of propaganda or from the DA, but by Statistics SA. [Interjections.]

Translated - and the Minister complained shortly about people coming with theories and figures and attitudes - it means that in reality 6 million people are out of work.

An HON MEMBER: What about Zimbabwe?

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: There are more people out of work in Zimbabwe, even though they have a smaller population. Some of you want Zimbabwean policies to be applied here, and we say no. So let’s not talk about Zimbabwe on this issue. [Interjections.]

From 1995 to 2000 the average South African household became 11,8% poorer in real terms. And, what has happened in this country is that the gap between rich and poor has increased. Since 1996 the richest one-sixth of all South Africans has increased its share of the national income, while the rest of the population has faced a decline.

By way of a very gentle interjection and an aside with the President here yesterday - because we have respect for the leader of that hon member’s party even if he does not have any respect for ours - the President indicated that he was not much impressed with the work that had been done at the University of Cape Town, which indicated that the gap today is no longer simply a black-white debate or gap, but one between those who are invited into the economy and those who have been excluded from it altogether. As the two academics, Prof Seekings and Prof Natrass, who were somewhat dismissed yesterday by President Mbeki, said: “In South Africa, black and white are no longer synonymous with rich and poor.” It is an elite group that is moving ahead while the rest of the people have been left behind.

So if you ask about the better life, the answer is: It depends who you are and it depends where you live. In some parts of this country it depends on what your party card is. [Interjections.] But it certainly is not for all the people.

Now the Government will claim, with some justification, that its investment in basic services has created a social wage that compensates for the lack of jobs and the loss of income. But, while that is true, there is a flip side to that. The question then becomes not just the quantity, but the quality of the services delivered.

I was absolutely amazed to hear the hon Minister say in the debate, as though it was somebody else’s problem and somebody else’s concern and somebody else’s doing, that the real problem is that the Public Service does not deliver in South Africa. But, sir, you have been in charge of the Public Service for nine long years, and you have transformed the Public Service. If there is something wrong with the transformation process, we agree. Let’s look at transformation again, and say, “What has it transformed?” [Interjections.]

Nearly one-third of all Telkom lines installed between 1997 and 2001 have subsequently been disconnected. So the social wage is not enough to offset the grim decline in real wages.

In 1990 or 1991, at the beginning of the process when the Minister of Social Development and I met each other in a village north of Oslo in Norway with Mr Ken Andrew - I remember that we were gathered together; we got on better then than today, but anyway - Aids was virtually unknown in South Africa. Today, nearly 5 million people suffer from that disease. In 1990 the average South African lived to 71 years of age. There was much that was wrong with South Africa in 1990, and Mr Renier Schoeman will tell us about that. [Interjections.] He was not even a Deputy Minister then, so we can’t …

In 1990, for all its other problems, the average South African lived to the age of 71 - the biblical three score years and 10. Today the average age that a South African will live to is 52 years old. So, for too many South Africans, life is shorter and not better.

Between 1994 and 2000 serious crimes grew by 24%. In the same period, while our crime went up, our prosecutions dropped by 23% - by almost the same percentage. This House is rightly being concerned, deeply and seriously concerned, with the whole question of child rape and sexual abuse of minors. There can be no worse crime in the world. Yet, for every 10 cases of child rape, only one, under our present system, results in a conviction.

We have a furious debate in this country about the death sentence or appropriate sentencing, and yet the truth is that nine out of 10 of the people who are accused of these crimes never come before a court at all for any sentence whatsoever.

So the question becomes, and you will appreciate it because we have a few Leninists among us: “What is to be done?” The point is to change the things that need to be changed; when there is a problem to fix it; to prioritise; to have real economic liberation. Our party will unveil its policy in that regard on Monday. It actually tackles all the issues. It doesn’t skirt some of them. It does not say “We will be all right on macroeconomic stability, but we can’t deal with the rest of it because there are too many vested interests or there are too many protected people that we have to look after.” If we are serious about a better life, we have to create one. We have to remove all the obstacles that prevent it from happening. Then, our country will live up to its greatest promise and its brightest expectations. [Time expired.] I thank you. [Applause.]

Nkskz A N SIGCAWU: Mhlalingaphambili, baPhathiswa, amalungu ePalamente, phambi kokuba ndingene, ndifuna ukuba khe ndixelele uMnu Leon lo malunga nolwaphulo-mthetho. Ndimva ethetha ngalo esithi luninzi kulo Rhulumente. Andazi ukuba lungakanani na xa ethelekisa noluya lweliya xesha babephethe, bedlisa abantu ngezinja ngalo. Ndifuna ke uMnu Leon ukuba abe ngathi uyazifaka ezi zinto zikhumshayo ezindlebeni ukuze andive xa ndimphendula.

Ndiyawuvuma umbuzo kaMhlekazi. Mna njengomama osuka ezilalini ndithi, ewe, lukho utshintsho, kunjalonje lukho kakhulu. Umzekelo, phaya ezilalini, abantu babehlala besela utywala bengazi ukuba bangaziphilisa njani. Lo Rhulumente wenze indibaniso, abantu abangenanto esandleni, benze iiprojekthi zokukwazi ukuziphilisa. Ndithetha ngeendlela ezenziwe ngulo Rhulumente.

Uya kukhumbula mfo kaLeon ukuba ngexesha likarhulumente wengcinezelo, wawungekho umgaqo owawusiya esikolweni, ekliniki nakwiindawo eziphethwe ziinkosi. Namhlanje zikhona ezo ndlela. Ndingakuxelela ngombane. Ngexesha langaphambili wawungekho umbane. Namhlanje oomakhulu noomama bethu kunye nathi sicofa impukane. Ndifuna ukuxelela umfo kaLeon ukuba ngexesha ababephethe ngalo zazingekho izikolo zokulondoloza abantwana. Oomama noomakhulu babekhulisa abantwana ngokubabeleka de bahambe kuba babengenazindawo zokubagcina. Amanzi akhona, enziwe ngulo Rhulumente. Izindlu zikhona.

Kungokuba kutheni le mibuzo ibekwa kwesi sithebe seengxoxo yowiso-mthetho ukuba ixoxwe nje? Kungani? Kulindelekile yaye kwamkelekile ukuba siphendule ngeendlela ezahlukeneyo kodwa ke ekwenzeni oko, kuya kunyanzeleka ukuba nawo lo mbuzo siwuqwalasele ukuba uvela phi, ujongise phi, ukuze uzalisekise ngeenjongo zabo. Ngelinye ixesha kngatshiwo ukuba, hayi lo mbuzo ubekwe ngendlela enobuzaza. Noko ke ngenye imini siya kuthetha ngolu hlobo lwalo mbuzo. Okwanamhlanje siza kuthetha ngemeko le ibekwe phambi kwethu.

Xa sithetha ngomonakalo owenzeke kweli lizwe, sonke siyavumelana ngokuba nyhani inkqubo yocalucalulo ebiqhutywa ngurhulumente welo xesha weNational Party yiyo esenze intlungu nobunzima obungazange bubonwe kweli lizwe. Nalo eli qela liyiNew National Party ligqibele sele liyibona into yokuba indlela yalo ibheka eliweni. Livumile ukuba kuboniswane ngokwakhiwa ngokutsha kweli lizwe.

Eli qela, iNew National Party aliphelelanga apho, liye laqhubeka lathi liza kunikezela ukuze kwakhiwe uxolo nomanyano lweli lizwe. Lathi nangona abantu beli lizwe bahlukene ngebala, ngamasiko, iinkolo nezinye izinto, layamkela into yokuba sonke sisisizwe saseMzantsi Afrika esinengomso elifanayo ekumele ke ngoko ukuba sifake igxalaba ekwakhiweni kwalo.

Ulandela le mibono mihle ke lo mbutho, waba sele uthatha isigqibo esibangele ukuba abantu bakuthi abaninzi bancume. Isigqibo eso saba sesokusebenzisana noRhulumente weli lizwe ekusombululeni iingxaki nasekulakheni ngokutsha. Esi sigqibo siphinde sanceda ekuqiniseni amathemba ezigidi zabantu beli ukuba ixesha lokwakha usapho olukhulu lwaseMzantsi Afrika esawulwela nzima, ngokwenene lifikile.

IBhayibhile eNgcwele yamaKrestu ithi, “…asingabo bonke abathi Nkosi, Nkosi, abaya kumbona uYehova.” Ngexesha lokuphatha kweNational Party ngenyani besibaninzi kakhulu sonke sisithi ucalucalulo olu asilufuni kwaye kananjalo asihambisani nalo ngokwenene. Njengokuba sesitsho ke, yho! Nantsi iNew National Party ilunyhala ucalucalulo, sekuvela amahlazo ke ngoku. Abanye ababesithi abalufuni olu calucalulo, nabo namhlanje bengafuni nokulubona utshintsho.

Enyanisweni intetho-mpikiswano efana nale ayinganto yokuba iimeko ziguqukile na okanye hayi. Eyona nto inyanisekileyo yeyokuba kwalapha phakathi kwethu kukho abangaphathwanga kakuhle yinguqu. Yiloo nto besakha amathuba alolu hlobo oukzama ukusengela phantsi lo Rhulumente.

Eli lixesha ekudandalaziswa ngalo isiko lobuxoki nezithuko abanye kweli lizwe abakholelwa ekubeni yeyona ndlela ifanelekileyo yokuziphatha ke le. Konke oku kwenziwa kusekelwe phezu kwenkolelo engenanyani, ethi ngenye imina abantu beli lizwe baya kuwushiya lo mbutho wabo wenkululeko balandele abo bakholelwa kwiindlela zokuphila ezakhiwe phezu kwesisekelo sasendle esithi esinamandla masitye konke okuphambi kwaso. Ngolwabo ukholo, umntu akangomntu. Umntu uba ngumntu ngokumfimfitha igazi labanye abantu. Intetho yanamhlanje asiyo ntetho yakuxhentsa siqhayisa ngobuciko bethu. Le yintetho ejongise ekulungiseni imvelaphi nekamva lethu njengesizwe saseMzantsi Afrika.

Soze sikwazi ukubona kakuhle ukuba sibe nayo na inkqubela xa ngaba xa singenakujonga ukuba kanene sasifuna ukuguqula ntoni na. Amava ethu okuxhatshazwa nokuphathwa ngendlela engekho mthethweni namava obugorha nokuzinikela kwethu ekwakheni ikamva elihle. Zombini ezi zinto zinzulu ezintliziyweni zabantu bethu. Oku kususela kwiimfazwe ezaqala emva kweminyaka yo-1652 ekubekeni kwabaMhlophe unyawo lwabo eMzantsi Afrika. Kaloku bathi ukufika kwabo batya imihlaba, babulala abantu, iindlela zabo zokuphila kunye namasiko abo. Iimbongi, ababhali beencwadi, amagorha enkululeko - bonke aba bantu bathethile ngalo mba.

Ejonga esi sishiqi uMichael Harmel wayibeka wathi, “Akukho ndawo apha eMzantsi Afrika ingazange ibufumane ubundlobongela benkqubo yobukholoniyali baseNtshona Yurophu”. OkaHarmel uqhuba athi, “Noko ke abakho abacinezelwe kanzima nangenkohlakalo nangexesha elide ukugqitha abantu baseMzantsi Afrika, obizwa namhlanje ngokuba yi Republic of South Africa”.

Ngenye imini igorha lakuthi uNelson Mandela xa wayethetha ngalo mba wathi, wakhula esiva ngamagorha awalishiya eli elwela ilizwe lakowalo. Uthi uMadiba ezi ndaba zamenza ukuba azimisele ukuba mhla wakhula naye uya kuba ligorha lenkululeko.

UNkosi Albert Luthili, esamkela iBhaso loXolo iNobel ngomnyaka ka-1961 wathi, “Phantsi kwale nto ibonakalayo, kukho umoya ozinikele ekulweni ingcinezelo. Abantu balapha eMzantsi Afrika abazange baba ziinkunkuma. Ndithetha ngabantwana bomthonyama mna”. Eqhuba njalo nentetho yakhe wathi, “Sinemvelaphi ende sisilwela amalungelo ethu. Le mvelaphi isuka ekufikeni kwabamhlophe kweli lizwe loobawomkhulu eminyakeni engeva emakhulwini amathathu agqithileyo”. OkaLuthuli uqhuba alande ngamagorha afana nooHintsa, ooMoshoeshoe nooTshaka, esitsho esithi la manene akwimvelaphi yethu kunye nabanye abaninzi, balwa ngesibindi nobundlobongela babaMhlophe belo xesha.

Kungani na silanda zonke zi zinto nje? Senzela ukuba nkqu noosiyazi aba abasele beyenze into yabo ukusebenzisa amamenemene ekothuleni isidima salo Rhulumente wabantu baseMzantsi Afrika babone ukuba imvelaphi yeli lizwe eyenze ukuba ngomnyaka ka-1994 salathe kwinkqubo yokwakha nophuhliso, iRDP, kwafuneka ukuba yakhelwe phezu kwesisekelo senyani noxolelwano, iTruth and Reconciliation.

Makhe sijonge ukuba ingaba saceba ukuwuqala njani lo msebenzi ngo-1994 umsebenzi wokwakha ilizwe lethu ngokutsha. Saqala ngokuyamkela inyani ethi njengesizwe imvelaphi yethu yembi kakhulu. Sathi iinkqubo zangaphambili zokulawulwa kwelizwe nobutyebi zazisekelwe phezu kokuxhatshazwa nokucinezelwa kwamalungelo abantu banasebenzi. Savuma ukuba idyokhwe yentlupheko nengcinezelo ihleli ngokumanyumnyezi phezu kwababhinqileyo, ingakubi abo bahlala emaphandleni. SAqhuba sathi ubutyebi, imfundo, ukhuseleko, ezempilo, ezentlalontle, ezomthetho nomgaqo-siseko, zonke zisekelwe phezu kwengcinezelo nokuvinjwa kwabamnyama amathuba, oku kusenzelwa ukutyebisa abamhlophe. Phezu kwayo yonke le nto, satsho ukuba izigidi zabantu bakuthi abamnyama nabamhlophe, oomama nootata, abadala nabancinane, bonke bazabalaza bezabalazela ukwakha ilizwe elisekwe phezu komthetho nobulungisa. Satsho sathi ngulo mbono kanye namandla awo esiza kwakhela phezu kwawo umgaqo wophuhliso nenkqubela, iRDP. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa speech follows.)

[Mrs A N SIGCAWU: Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon members of Parliament, before I come to my contribution, I just want to tell Mr Leon something about crime. I heard him say that it is rife under this Government. I don’t know how the crime rate compares to the time they were in power, when they set dogs on people. I want Mr Leon to listen carefully on his interpreting device so that he can follow my response.

I respond in the affirmative to the hon member’s question. As a woman from the rural areas, I say, yes, there has been some change, and major change too. For instance, in the rural areas people used to drink all the time because they didn’t know what to do to make a living. This Government came up with partnerships, and people with nothing to call their own came up with projects so that they could make a living. I’m talking here about the achievements of this Government.

You will recall, hon Leon, that at the time that the apartheid regime was in power, there were no roads leading to schools, to clinics and to areas under traditional leaders. Today they are there. I can tell you about electricity. In the olden days we had no access to electricity. Today our grandmothers, our mothers and us, we just switch it on by pressing the switch on the wall. I want to tell the hon Leon that when they were in power, there were no creches. Our grandmothers and mothers used to raise children by carrying them on their backs until they could walk because there were no centres to send them to. There is water, which has been provided by this Government. There are houses.

Why are these questions tabled before this House? Why? It is expected and acceptable for us to give different answers, but in doing so, we will have to consider the angle of the question and its objectives. Sometimes it can be said of a question that it has been put in a serious light. In that case we will reply in a manner befitting the question. However, today we are going to talk about the question put before us. When we talk about the damage done to this country, we all agree that the apartheid system that was pursued by the then NP government caused unprecedented pain and suffering in this country. The New NP finally realised that it was on the road to nowhere. Subsequently it agreed to negotiations about the reconstruction of this country.

The New NP did not stop there. It gave up power so that peace and unity could be built in this country. Although the people of this country are different in terms of colour, culture, beliefs and so forth, the New NP accepted that we are all part of a South African nation with a common future, and that we should all contribute to the building of that future.

In following these noble ideas, this party also took a decision that made many of our people smile. That decision entailed working together with the Government of this country in solving the country’s problems and in its reconstruction. This decision has also helped in strengthening the feeling of millions of South African citizens that the time to build a strong, happy family in a South Africa that we fought hard for, has come.

The Holy Bible says: “Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.” When the NP was still in power, there were many of us who said that we were against apartheid and called for it to be abolished. Out of the blue, the New NP condemns apartheid and there are all sorts of scandals. Some of those who condemned apartheid today stand against change.

In truth, a debate like this is not about whether things have changed or not. The truth is that even amongst us there are those who are not happy with the change. This is the reason they are always looking for opportunities like these so that they can pull this Government down.

It is on occasions like these that the culture of lies and insults is displayed by those who believe that this is the best possible behaviour. All of this happens against the background of the misconceived idea that one day the people of this country will leave the party that liberated them and join those who believe in the law of the jungle, of the survival of the fittest. In terms of their belief, a person is nothing. One becomes somebody by living off the blood of others. Today’s debate is not about showing off our dancing and oratorical skills. It is aimed at correcting our past and our future as the South African nation.

We can’t say whether we’ve made any progress if we don’t look back to see what is it that we wanted to change. Ours has been an experience of abuse and being treated like legal outcasts on the one hand, and of heroism and commitment to building a brighter future on the other. Both experiences are firmly etched on the hearts of our people. This has been the case since 1652, when whites set foot in South Africa. Indeed, when they arrived, they grabbed land, killed people and their way of life and culture. Praise singers, writers, struggle heroes - all these people have talked about this issue.

Looking at this matter, Micheal Harmel put it thus: “No place in South Africa was spared the violence of the colonial system of Western Europe.” Harmel further states that: “However, none have been oppressed as brutally and for such a long time as the people of South Africa, which today is called the `Republic of South Africa’.

One day our hero, Nelson Mandela, talking about this issue, said that as he was growing up, he heard of the heroes who died fighting for their country. Madiba said that this spurred him on, so much so that he vowed that when he grew up, he too would be a liberation hero.

Chief Albert Luthuli, in his Nobel Peace Prize acceptance speech in 1961, said: “Behind this facade is a spirit that is committed to fighting oppression. The people of South Africa have never been rubbish. I’m talking here about indigenous South Africans.” Continuing, he said: “We have a long history of fighting for our rights. This history stretches over 300 years, when whites arrived in our ancestral land.” Luthuli further reflects on heroes such as Hintsa, Moshoeshoe and Shaka, maintaining that these gentlemen and many others are some of our forebears who fought bravely against the violence of the white people in the past.

Why do we dig up all these things? So that the people who know all and have used evils means to vilify the Government of the people of South Africa can see that when we came up with the RDP in 1994, we should have based it on truth and reconciliation.

Let us look at how we planned this task of reconstructing our country in

1. We started off by accepting the reality that as a nation we had started out on the wrong footing. The system of government of the past and the control of the economy were based on the abuse of human rights and on the suppression of workers’ rights. We agreed that the yoke of oppression and poverty was too heavy on women, particularly those in the rural areas. We further stated that wealth, education, security, health, social welfare, the laws of the country and its constitution were all meant to oppress black people and to deny them opportunities, with the object to enrich white people. On top of that, we stated that millions of our people, black and white, women and men, the old and the young, all of them, had participated in the struggle to create a nation based on justice. We stated that it was on this vision and its power that we were going to base the RDP. [Applause.]]

Prince N E ZULU: Deputy Chair, hon Ministers, colleagues in the House, Robert Kennedy once said that budgetary figures and statistics can measure everything, but not the beauty of our land, the solidity of our friendships and marriages, the freedom of our people and the psychological health of a society. As we approach this debate, we must keep in mind that the South Africa of today is profoundly different and immensely better than the one of 10 years ago in that it is free and has been purged of the scourges of racism, oppression, sexism and authoritarianism. [Applause.]

This was not just a matter of getting rid of a system of government based on racial oppression and systematic discrimination. An entire old society based on regressive, authoritarian and paternalistic values has been shown the way out, while a new society is progressively coming in.

The South Africa of today is moving increasingly towards an open society, rejecting the stagnant features of an old order based on endemic oppression, psychological violence, and the systematic abuse of people in most of the building blocks of our society.

Our women are on a path of increasing liberation to fulfil the right to be treated on the same level as their male counterparts in families, communities and workplaces. Our children are becoming increasingly protected by a new culture which recognises their rights and legitimate expectations.

Across fields, too many to mention, life is improving. We have better laws and opportunities for all, which were just unimaginable for the majority of our people in this country a mere 10 years ago. Individual and collective horizons have broadened beyond our most optimistic dreams. Indeed, the wave of pessimism and negativism in which our land was embroiled 10 years ago has been pushed back and a new age of optimism and positivism is now dawning in South Africa. Most of this is not reflected in statistics, economic figures and budgets.

However, there is no doubt that the glass is half empty. There is no doubt that, in many other respects, large segments of South Africa are now worse off than they were 10 years ago. Today we have achieved so much because we ignored the social and economic conditions that confronted us in the past. If, in the future, we are to achieve in equal measure, we need to engage in a second liberation struggle against poverty, unemployment, crime and HIV/Aids.

We will not achieve this if we become complacent and fall prey to what seems to be a rapidly spreading syndrome of denial. We must stop denying the facts of the matter. It is a fact that employment levels have collapsed since 1994, and that vast segments of our population, who could then feed themselves and enjoy the dignity and security of employment, are now subject to one of the worst of all possible social evils, which is unemployment. The rising figures of unemployment by themselves indicate that South African society is less healthy now than it was then, even though its economy is much stronger now and holds much greater potential now than it did then.

Similarly, there is no doubt that the levels of crime, rebellion and lawlessness now have increased in all our communities as opposed to what they used to be way back in 1994. There is no doubt in our minds that over the past years there has been a constant denial of the dramatic nature of rising unemployment and criminality which became contributing factors to the escalation of these problems.

Year after year the IFP has urged the adoption of strong and courageous economic policies which can stimulate economic growth. We have advocated full-scale privatisation, maximum flexibility in the labour market and massive programmes to assist the conversion of our agricultural industry from land-intensive low-added-value crops to labour-intensive high-added- value crops, in a comprehensive plan of economic growth and employment generation.

There is no doubt that in rural areas there is much more poverty now than 10 years ago, because our Government has placed insufficient emphasis on subsistence economy. There has been a progressive disintegration of the social fibre of our rural areas which has dramatically increased the lack of social cohesion and co-operation, and increased the levels of poverty and abject social conditions. Social solidarity and community safety nets are shrinking dramatically, leaving people exposed to poverty, illness, isolation and despair.

For too many people there is now much less hope than there used to be 10 years ago. That, for me, is the most dramatic of all negative aspects of the present situation. Ten years ago our people had hope for rapid change for the better, whereas now they are falling prey to rapidly spreading despair as they no longer believe that their conditions will improve because they see the quality of their daily lives shrinking. The purchasing power of salaries is shrinking, as are many of the hopes that people have for social and economic advancement.

However, the worst of all evils remains HIV, in respect of which our Government’s syndrome of denial has been the most lethal, reckless and deplorable. Our people are dying in the hundreds of thousands.

Ten years ago the extent of the problem was denied and it was not even made a priority. When it became a priority, confusing messages were sent. Now that the message has been rectified, we are still struggling with whether or not affected people should have the right to receive treatment which is available to them and to which, in terms of any rule of morality and decency, they are rightfully entitled.

We can no longer deny the reality of unemployment, crime, insufficient economic growth and HIV. This debate should not detract from the great successes we have achieved as a country. However, it should focus us on the shortcomings and create in us the necessary humility to recognise that while a lot of good has been achieved, what we have is just not good enough. We must now move toward a second liberation struggle to free our people from the persistent yoke of poverty, unemployment, violence and HIV/Aids. I thank you. Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Chairperson, it is indeed an honour to follow a prince in this House. [Laughter.]

In Prediker 7:10 staan daar:

Moenie sê in die ou dae was dit beter as nou nie; dit is nie uit wysheid dat ‘n mens so sê nie.

As ek nou na die Prediker wil luister, wat ek graag wil doen, dan moet ek nie aan hierdie debat deelneem nie, want hierdie debat is spesiaal deur die DA aangevra om te sê in die ou dae was dit beter as nou. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[In Ecclesiastes 7:10 it is written:

Do not say, “Why were the former days better than these?” For you do not inquire wisely concerning this?

If I want to adhere to what is written in Ecclesiastes, which I would like to do, then I must not participate in this debate, because this debate was especially requested by the DA to say that the former days were better then these. [Interjections.]]

The request for this debate: “Have conditions in South Africa improved since 1994?” is, in my view, nothing but a yearning for the so-called good old days of apartheid. [Interjections.] Let me motivate this. In 1994 the governance of this country was still, by and large, driven by the momentum of the apartheid government. It was only later that the present Government started to leave its imprint on society.

This reminds me of what we - that is, my good friends Frik Van Deventer and Sakkie Pretorius and I - used to say in the 1980s, which was that during the day the Progs fought the NP tooth and nail, but at night they prayed that the Nats would stay in power in order to continue enjoying the good life white people had under apartheid. [Interjections.] [Applause.] By requesting this debate it seems as if nothing has changed at all. [Interjections.] In order to answer the question whether conditions in South Africa have improved since 1994, one would have to turn to Charles Dickens for an answer. In A Tale of Two Cities he describes the conditions in London and Paris just before the French Revolution, as follows … [Interjections.] … Yes, I know the Leader of the Opposition has read A Tale of Two Cities. I quote:

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times, it was the age of wisdom, it was the age of foolishness … it was the season of Light, it was the season of Darkness, it was the spring of hope, it was the winter of despair.

Conditions in South Africa between 1994 and 2003 could just as well be described as “the best of times, “the worst of times”, “the age of wisdom” and “the age of foolishness”, as “the spring of hope” and “the winter of despair”.

Whether conditions have improved in South Africa depends entirely, therefore, on one’s personal experience within a specific social context. If you lived in a shack in 1994, but now have a roof over your head, then 2003 is “the best of times” and 1994 “the worst of times”. [Applause.] If you were deprived of higher educational training in 1994, but now have access to university or technikon training owing to the student financial aid scheme, 2003 would be “the age of wisdom”, whilst 1994 would be “the age of foolishness”. [Interjections.]

However, if you can’t get a bursary, despite 11 distinctions, owing to a quota system, it would be the other way round. If you are enjoying the luxury of having electricity in your home for the first time, 2003 would be “the season of light”. However, if you have to transform your house into a fortress owing to the escalation of crime, then 2003, in comparison with 1994, would be “the season of darkness”.

If you get promoted on mere potential of ability, then 2003 would be “the season of hope”, but if you get retrenched owing to affirmative action, then 2003 would be “the winter of despair”. Whether conditions in South Africa have improved since 1994, is therefore entirely relative.

All I do know is that the South Africa of 2003 is a much better place to live in than the South Africa of 1994. [Applause.]

However, this debate should not be about the past. This debate should be about the future. [Interjections.] This debate should be about how we can join hands to make South Africa work; about how we can work together to address poverty, unemployment, equal opportunities, HIV/Aids, multilingualism, unity in diversity and crime. In short, this debate should be about how we can work together to make South Africa a better place for all who live in it.

En dis waarom die Nuwe NP samewerkende regering steun. [Applous.] [And that is why the New NP supports co-operative governance. [Applause.]]

Mr B H HOLOMISA: Chairperson … [Interjections.] … could they be quiet please. We can’t hear. The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! [Interjections.] Order! Let there be some order in the House.

Mr B H HOLOMISA: Deputy Chairperson and hon members, of course South Africa has, since 1994, been freed from the Draconian laws of apartheid. However, in terms of unemployment, poverty and crime, the ANC Government cannot claim victory. Let me state this clearly. If the President perceives any negativity from the UDM, I can assure this House that it is aimed solely at the manner in which the ANC Government and its Ministers are doing their jobs.

I do not fear providing information on the true state of the nation. What is of concern is that this information is readily available in the public domain. Some of it is even produced by institutions reporting directly to Government. The ANC Government cannot claim that this information has not been presented countless times before, in the very Parliament to which the President has challenged others to bring their information.

What this demonstrates is wilful suppression or ignorance of information that clearly contradicts Government’s claim of unbridled success. The President has asked for information. I provide it gladly, hoping that the challenge presumably implies that this time the ANC Government will actually take note.

During the state of the nation debate, I said: By the end of last year formal sector employment rose by a mere 0,5%, creating employment for only 21 935 people. … Average monthly real earnings in the formal sector dropped by 0,5% when comparing August 2002 with August 2001.

These statements derive from Statistics SA - your own institution - that puts unemployment in terms of the expanded definition at more than 41%. Indeed, it is your main ally, Cosatu, which has lost more than 1 million members in the past nine years owing to the ANC’s neoliberal economic policies.

Whilst unemployment rises, talk of other successes rings hollow. Joblessness leads to hunger, despair, social decay and crime. Political freedom without economic freedom is a hollow gesture. You cannot tell people that you are taking them to the promised land where the fruits of freedom grow abundantly, but upon arrival point to the abundant fruits of freedom and say: “Please, be patient. Wait another year; another decade,” or that “President Bush has told us to lecture you on the effects of globalisation.”

Of course there is an outcry when the waiting masses watch in horror from their squatter camps how a select elite gorges themselves on these abundant fruits of freedom, clothed in style and driving 4x4s supplied by arms dealers. It is only the arrogant hypocrite that can speak of a better life to the jobless and the victims of crime. Yes, arms deal fruits, Zama Forest fruit trees, Comrade Shaik and Mac Maharaj’s highway robberies, and so on. The list is endless. Thank you. [Interjections.]

Mr J J KGARIMETSA: Hon members, comrades and Deputy Chair, the question before us today seems to suggest that we need to make a comparison of the situation before 1994 to that after 1994. If that is the correct observation, then it is a waste of time - the two periods are in no way comparable. You cannot. [Applause.]

In fact, conditions for the majority of South Africans changed immediately when we made our mark and voted the people’s Government into power in 1994. No one will dispute the fact that the 1994 elections had an impact on the lives of the black people of South Africa. For the first time, the dignity and respect of the masses were restored. They became true citizens of their country.

In 1994 the ANC Government launched the Reconstruction and Development Programme, which reflected the imperatives of the historical Freedom Charter adopted by the Congress of the People on 26 June 1955.

Today, the ANC Government’s vision of transformation is informed by its past principles and ideals, reflecting a direct relationship with goals sketched in the Freedom Charter. The overriding economic goals are sustainable growth, viable employment creation and moving towards full employment. The fight against poverty and the promotion of rural development have been and still remain the keys to the economic and social development plans of the Government.

To date, Government has put in place a plethora of initiatives prioritising poverty eradication. Since 1996 the Department of Public Works has invested more than R1,4 billion in building community-owned assets and creating employment opportunities, initially targeting South Africa’s poorest communities in rural KwaZulu-Natal, the Eastern Cape and the Limpopo province. The programme was subsequently extended to the Free State, Mpumalanga and the North West.

Using labour-intensive construction methods, more than 3 000 community projects and 154 739 temporary and sustainable job opportunities have been created, achieving local targets in terms of women, the youth and the disabled.

The SA Advertising Research Foundation’s development index shows extensive development in South African living standards since the year 1994. The data covers areas such as home ownership, the provision of clean water and electricity, and access to electrical appliances, electric stoves, refrigerators, television sets and telephones. The Research Foundation also shows a steady decline in the proportion of people who earn less than R2 500 a month and an increase in the proportion of those who earn between R2 500 and R6 000 and above. These changes in the lives of people did not come about on their own. They are the result of the ongoing efforts by Government since 1994 to create conditions in order for all our people to live better lives.

A policy of free basic services, which was introduced through the state of the nation address in 2001, made a big difference to the conditions and lives of people, especially the rural poor. Since the year 1999, 4 million more South Africans have had access to free basic water, bringing the total since 1994 to over 7 million. The provision of services such as housing, water, electricity, school feeding schemes, pensions and child support grants has helped to eradicate poverty.

In the five calendar years to the end of 1998, 2,3 million electricity grid connections were made. In the four years since 1999, more than 1,2 million connections were made, bringing the total to over 3,48 million. The number of people benefiting from child support grants went up from 28 000 about three years ago to more than 1,1 million. About 65 000 new children gain access to the grant every month. This is progress.

The conditions have not only changed for ordinary people, but this Government is also making progress in restoring the dignity of and the respect for the institution of traditional leaders. I will not go into the countless processes that have been established so far in the area of traditional leaders. We are aware that the White Paper has been tabled so that the public can give feedback on how traditional leaders should participate in a meaningful manner in the democratic Government. The Communal Rights Bill is another measure that aims to restore respect for and the dignity of especially rural women who are provided with an opportunity to access land. Conditions are changing for the majority of Africans. The opposition party has failed to understand the real dynamics of change in the new South Africa.

Dinagamagae tsa maloba tse di tlileng le bommatsona eleng puso ya tlhaolele, di ne di ipitsa di puso. Di ne di le motleletlele me go sena melelwana. Fa o pota ka kwa o ya kwa, o fitlhela gore moagisana wa gago ke morui wa Aforika Borwa. Tse dipuso e ne e le tsa peo-bobing. Kwa gae kwa Profenseng ya Bokone-Bophirima o o phatshimang ka meepo, ke boitumelo bo bogolo gobo re katogile setlhare sa mosi was Bophuthatswana wa maloba ka ge a ne a re jesa ditalana tsa Aforika Borwa wa tlhaolele. Motswana wa lekgorokgoro o rile, “fa ya pele e gatileng teng le ya morago e ya gata”. [Setshego.] (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[Erstwhile homelands which came with their mother, which is the apartheid government, called themselves governments. They were scattered and had no borders. When moving around you would find that your neighbour was a farmer in South Africa. Those were artificial governments. At home in the North West province, which has many mines, there is a lot of happiness because we have moved away from the dark cloud of the erstwhile Bophuthatswana which emulated apartheid South Africa.

There is a saying which says, like father, like son. [Laughter.]]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Yes, hon Minister, what is your point of order? Please take your seat, hon member.

TONA YA DIKGOPOLOLO: Ke ratile go botsa gore ke ka ntlha ya eng fa leloko le le bua, lebelela nna? [Setshego.]

Rre J J KGARIMETSA: Baagi ba Mmuso wa Botswana ba ne ba re bitsa batho ba mmuso ya peo-bobing. Tota selo se ke setshego mme le gale Motswana o rile “leso legolo ditshego’. Kana makwalo a rona a mosepele fa re ne re etele Botswana o mabapi le rona, ba ne ba sa a tempe. Re ne re le mo kutleng, re kutleletswe, re se nang, re se nang. Re ne re le gopane wa moikapari. [Setshego.] Go ne go lekola tse di mafura, tse di mokogo e le dibona ka tsona.

Batsofe ba rona ba ne ba amogela madi a kana ka R140 go ya go R200 mo di kgweding tse tharo. [Setshego.] [Tsenoganong.] A mme ke tsona bagaetsho? Kana puso ya jaanong ya temokresi e fa batsofe ba rona R700 ka kgwedi. (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: I would like to ask why the hon member looks at me when he speaks. [Laughter.]

Mr J J KGARIMETSA: The citizens of Botswana called us people of an artificial government. This was a real joke. Our travel documents were not stamped when we visited the neighbouring Botswana. We were in a kraal, we were restricted, we had nothing. [Laughter.] Only those who were rich used to visit, those who were not rich did not.

Our elders received a pension of R140 to R200 in three months. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] Was is really right? The current democratic Government gives the elderly R700 per month.]

This was a product of the practice of the apartheid regime!

E rile fa go diriwa boikuelo, bo diriwa ke ANC ka fa tlase ga motlotlegi Rre Nelson Mandela, gammogo le bakgaratlhela kgololosego ba bangwe, puo e e ntseng teng fa e ntse ga re koo. [Setshego.] Ditshwenyana fa dire ping di abe di utlwile tse dikgolo. Modisa o molemo o tlhokomela dinku tsa gagwe. Dinku di utlwa lentswe la modisa. Modisa oa fudisa e bile o a nosa. Bagaetsho ke rata go le ra ke re … (Translation of Tswana paragraph follows.)

[When an appeal was made by the ANC under the hon Mr Nelson Mandela, as well as other freedom fighters, there was talk to the effect that we were not going there. [Laughter.] Like father, like son. A good shepherd looks after his sheep. The sheep respond to the shepherd’s voice. The shepherd takes his sheep for grazing and for drinking water. Hon members, I would like to say that …]

The ANC-led Government under the President, Thabo Mbeki, is a shepherd.

Ke modisa o molemo. Modisa o disa dinku tsa gagwe mme dinku di utlwa lentswe la gagwe. [Legofi.] Ke modisa e bile o tshotse lenaneo la batho. O itse fa batho ba tshwanetse go bona di tiro, go nwa metsi segolo jang kwa metse magaeng koo batho ba kileng ba ja ntsva ba e saba ka legotlo. [Legofi.]

Batho ba kile ba tshwenngwa ke lenyora ebe ba wela mo didibeng tse neng ba di ikepetse ka diatla. Metsi a, a ne a se phepha e le ruri. Puso ya jaanong e kampane le malwetse a a medileng fa. Batho ba re ga re alafe HIV/Aids. Boletswe bo botlhodilwe ke di puso tsa tlhaolele. Batho ba nole metsi a leswe. (Translation of Tswana paragraphs follows.)

[I am a good shepherd. A shepherd looks after his sheep and his sheep respond to his voice. [Applause.] He is a shepherd and he has a list of people. He knows that people should get jobs and have running water, particularly in the rural areas where people are very poor. [Applause.]

People once were bothered by thirst and they fell into the wells that they had dug with their own hands. The water was very dirty. The current Government is dealing with the diseases which emerged from this. People say that we are not curing HIV/Aids. The disease came as a result of the apartheid government. People have consumed dirty water.]

We are busy repairing that damage. [Interjections.] Kana Rre motlotlegi Tony Leon o re baketse mathata. [Setshego.] A re ga re alafe TB mme e tlhodilwe ke ena. Selelo se re diile. Re santse re thiba makgege. [Really, the hon Mr Tony Leon has created problems for us. [Laughter.] He says that we do not cure TB, but it resulted because of him. Complaining will delay us. We are correcting the past.]

Restoring a person’s dignity and respect as a basic human right is the highest level of recognition, and has presented the majority of this country with an opportunity, not only to be independent of the Government, but for the people to understand their role in governance.

The question posed by the DP to us today suggests that we should have started by educating them that translating the democratic ideals into practice is a process and cannot happen overnight. We want to remind the DP that they were part of the apartheid government and had an opportunity to improve the conditions, but they did not. [Interjections.] Instead, they benefited from apartheid. [Interjection.]

Ga o modisa motlotlegi Tony Leon. [You are not a shepherd, hon Tony Leon.]

You cannot look after the people. You have lost the tone of the majority of blacks. You were better off during the time of the regime. [Interjections.]

O goletse mo di “sekontiring”. Rona re goletse mo ditholeng. O ka se ka wa etelela. [You grew up with tarred roads. We grew up with dust. You cannot lead us.]

You cannot! You have lost the tone of the people. You won’t make it, my hon member. [Laughter.] You won’t make it, DP. You won’t! You won’t! [Applause.] [Interjections.]

Ga wa tlhokomela ditshwanelo tsa batho. [Setshego.] O sala wa di latlha. [You did not look after the people’s rights. You threw them away.]

For 300 years you failed dismally. You can’t make it now. [Interjections.]

There are indeed the issues of unemployment, the skills shortage, HIV/Aids, health care access, education, crime and so on. We are all aware, including the DP, that Government has plans and concrete programmes in place on how to accelerate service delivery.

The state of the nation address outlined these programmes very clearly. I will not go into detail. [Interjections.]

Mr M J ELLIS: There’s no … [Inaudible.] [Interjections.]

Mr J J KGARIMETSA: DP, please …

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: You have got no plans. [Interjections.]

Mr J J KGARIMETSA: DP, please join us in our efforts to deliver to our people. Lend a hand in the partnership against poverty. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon Kgarimetsa, your time has expired.

Mr J J KGARIMETSA: Thank you very, very much. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

Adv Z L MADASA: Chairperson, compared to the past there are more opportunities for the majority of our people to participate in economic activity, but the leaders of apartheid education incapacitated the people from taking advantage of available opportunities.

The Government must take the blame though for slow, poor or no service delivery to all in some instances. It is not good enough to admit that the public service is incapable. We must give credit to the Government though for good management of the economy and for debt reduction, but economic growth that is not shared by all the people is unacceptable. Our economy, so far, only benefits the markets at the expense of the poor. Unemployment is shockingly high - at about 6,5 million Africans.

The Government must now look at changing its industrial strategy, from supporting the upstream industries to giving incentives to industries that are labour-intensive in order to create more jobs. Government incentives must be directed at companies that invest locally. Our agricultural policy should have followed the route of progressively reducing subsidies, provided that there was a reciprocal proportionate reduction in overseas subsidies to ensure food security and lower prices in foodstuffs. In an established democracy, with this kind of high unemployment, a government would lose the election immediately. All in all there is progress to eradicate poverty, but it is very, very, very slow.

Abantu abayityayo le nkululeko nabayonwabeleyo ngaba bantu kuthiwa zizitabane. Oko sakhululekayo aba bantu bonwabile, imithetho iyabavumela, iinkundla ziyabavumela. Kusegcibhala kubo bayatabhata, kumnandi koonkabi. Bahamba ze esitratweni. Nabo ke abantu abatya inkululeko nabonwabileyo. Enkosi. (Translation of Xhosa paragraph follows.)

[The people who enjoy freedom and who are comfortable with it are those called ``pansies’’. These people are contented because, since we were liberated, the laws have favoured them. The courts are on their side. They are at the height of excitement. They are having fun; it’s nice for them. They go nude in the streets. Those are therefore the people who enjoy freedom and are happy.]

Mr S E OPPERMAN: Chairperson, I would have serious problems with a shepherd who allows his sheep to die by the hundreds of thousands because of Aids.

In the book Evidence that Demands a Verdict, in which the author, Josh McDowell, discusses the historical, archaeological, prophetic and experiential evidence of the Christian faith, there is a remark that only an honest and objective seeker of the truth would allow evidence to speak for itself. I believe this remark is also valid for the debate this afternoon.

Agb Geldenhuys, dit was ‘n debat wat deur die agb President met die opening van die Parlement ontlok is toe hy verklaar het dat die situasie van gewone Suid-Afrikaners sedert 1994 verbeter het. [Hon Geldenhuys, it was a debate sparked by the hon President during the opening of Parliament, when he stated that the situation of ordinary South Africans has improved since 1994.]

So the debate is not about pre-1994; the debate is not about longing for the past.

U behoort te weet dat geen mens gister kan terugbring nie. Slegs ‘n eerlike, objektiewe en polities ongekontamineerde diagnose sal ons bring by die regte medikasie of operasie wat soms pynlik kan wees, maar wat volkome genesing kan bring.

Elke mens het drie basiese behoeftes. Die eerste basiese behoefte is veiligheid. Elke individu wil veilig wees in sy werkplek, in sy woonbuurt, in sy motor, in sy eie straat, in sy eie huis. Die tweede basiese behoefte van elke individu is dat hy ‘n geleentheid wil hê om geld te verdien; om te sorg en te voorsien aan die behoefte van sy onmiddellike of uitgebreide familie. Die derde behoefte van elke individu is dat hy ‘n dak oor sy kop soek; hy soek ‘n plek wat hy sy eie kan noem, waarop hy trots is, wat nie lek as dit reën nie, wat die koue buite hou en nie ‘n omgewingsonvriendelike teringfabriekie is nie.

Ek het ongelukkig slegs geleentheid om aandag te gee aan sekere aspekte van veiligheid en moraliteit rondom die vraag waaroor vanmiddag gedebatteer word. Ons in die DA doen dit met die volle erkenning en waardering vir dit wat op ander gebiede gebeur het, soos byvoorbeeld die voorsiening van water in Suid-Afrika.

‘n Paar dae gelede het gewone burgers by Kaapstad Internasionale Lughawe in ongeloof hulle kop geskud toe ‘n veroordeelde misdadiger ‘n helde-ontvangs van partygenote gekry het en skouerhoog na sy motor gedra is. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[You ought to know that no one can bring back yesterday. Only an honest, objective diagnosis free from political contamination will bring us to the right medication or operation that sometimes could be painful, but which could bring total healing.

Everyone has three basic needs. The first basic need is safety. Every individual wants to be safe at his place of work, in his neighbourhood, in his car, in his own street, in his own house. The second basic need of every individual is to have an opportunity to earn his keep; to care for and provide in the needs of his immediate or extended family. The third need of every individual is to have a roof over his head; he is looking for a place to call his own, of which he can be proud, which does not leak when it rains, that will keep the cold out and is not something that is a little environmentally unfriendly tuberculosis factory. Unfortunately, I only have time to touch on certain aspects of safety and morality concerning the question that will be debated this afternoon. We in the DA do it with the full recognition and appreciation for what has happened in other areas, for example the provision of water in South Africa.

A few days ago, ordinary citizens shook their heads in disbelief when a convicted criminal received a hero’s welcome from fellow party members and was carried shoulder-high to his motor car.] What a message! When looking at this misguided demonstration, I am reminded of the words of the hon Mayor of Tshwane, Father Smangaliso Mkhatshwa, who said two years ago, when he was still Deputy Minister of Education, that we were sitting on a moral time bomb. During that same address he said, and I quote:

It does not profit a nation to boast about thousands of teachers, of doctors, of lawyers, of nurses, of priests, of mechanics, of engineers and all kinds of skilled people, if these are devoid of moral values.

A very sick society was the diagnosis of the hon Deputy President some time ago. The medicine prescribed by the former President, Nelson Mandela, was that as a nation we needed an RDP of the soul. The hon Minister Mangosuthu Buthelezi warned, after the killing of Prince Mazwi, that 20 January 2003 should be remembered as a day that all South Africans received a wake-up call to the levels of lawlessness and criminality in the country.

Prominente politici, oor die breë spektrum, lewer dieselfde verdoemende getuienis. Ek wens ons kon liewer vanmiddag na die getuienis geluister het van die mammie van Tyrone Steenkamp, ses jaar, wat onlangs sy lewe in Ravensmead verloor het. Met haar bebloede seuntjie in haar arms het sy uitgeroep, ``My engel, bly by my’’, maar haar engel het in haar arms gesterwe.

Ek wens ons kon vanmiddag die geleentheid gehad het om die smart van Michaela Appollis se pa te aanskou toe hy onlangs die lewelose liggaam van sy dogtertjie in Steenberg aanskou het. Toe baba Tshepang verkrag is, het almal gedink dit sou ‘n keerpunt wees. Die teenoorgestelde is waar. Die onverskillige en uitdagende arrogansie van misdadigers het vererger.

Die bruin gemeenskap van Bredasdorp het uit moedeloosheid, na jare van teistering deur bendes, besluit om die wet in eie hande te neem. Vandag sit meer as tien lede van die gemeenskap agter tralies, omdat die staat te vrot was om hulle verantwoordelikheid ten opsigte van die veiligheid van ‘n gemeenskap na te kom. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Prominent politicians, across the broad spectrum, have the same condemning testimonies. I wish we could rather have listened to the evidence of six year-old Tyrone Steenkamp’s mommy. He is the boy who recently lost his life in Ravensmead. With her blood-smeared little boy in her arms she cried out, “My angel stay with me”, but her angel died in her arms.

I wish we could have had the opportunity this afternoon to see Michaela Appollis’ father recently, when he held the lifeless body of his little daughter in Steenberg. Everyone in the brown community, when baby Tshepang was raped, thought it would be a turning point. The opposite is true. The indifferent and defiant arrogance of criminals worsened.

The brown community of Bredasdorp, out of despair, after years of harassment by gangs decided to take the law into their own hands. Today, more than ten members of the community are behind bars because the state was too weak to meet its obligations regarding the safety of a community.]

These are some of the evidences concerning morality and security I would like to put before this House this afternoon. I believe that if we were honest and objective seekers of the truth concerning safety and morality in this country, we would allow the evidence to speak for itself. I rest my case. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr P H K DITSHETELO: Chairperson, questions were asked by ordinary South Africans prior to the 1994 general election in anticipation of the imminent democracy and freedom, especially after the release of political prisoners by the then National Party government.

The Codesa negotiations brought hope and trepidation for some. The opponents of the new order had, to some extent, genuine concerns relating to life after apartheid in terms of whether they would be treated differently or discriminated against. This refers to the change in the status quo that defined, expressed, advanced and defended the interests of the then apartheid government.

This was in the era of inequality that ensured that the wealth of this country was shared and enjoyed by the minority of our population. Race, in this regard, determined access to state resources. It meant that the majority of South Africans, who happened to be poor and oppressed, were not represented in government in order to express their wishes and aspirations, and to demand a share of what was rightfully theirs. Now that apartheid is dead and buried in terms of our Statute Book, certain types of questions have been answered on the type of society we had envisaged, that is one with a democratic, inclusive and nonracial government.

This Government came about as a result of participation by all South Africans. We are challenged to embark on an introspective journey to conduct a political, economic and social audit of the road travelled thus far. We do so to determine whether the Government is governing in the best interests of all South Africans. The rise in unemployment is contrary to the claim made by the Government that job losses were being contained. [Time expired.]

Dr S E M PHEKO: Chairman, it cannot be denied that there has been some improvement politically in this country since 1994. Racial discrimination has been outlawed. We can now use the same public transport, hospitals, schools and the same toilets. However, the reality is that Africans, who make up nearly 80% of our country’s population, are getting poorer. The income of the African household has dropped by 19%, while that of whites has increased by 15%. Unemployment has escalated at an alarming rate: 18 million African people live on less than R20 a day; over 20 million African people live in poverty; 25% of African children between the ages of one and six suffer from stunted growth due to malnutrition which will eventually affect their mental faculties.

African children certainly do not receive enough education, especially those who come from poor homes. The PAC believes that the state of African education can be turned around only when free education is given to the poor, at least for the next 20 years.

The land question remains unresolved. Africans are evicted from the land of their ancestors daily. Land claims are confined to 1913, but dispossessed Africans began to be robbed of their land shortly after Jan van Riebeeck arrived here on 6 April 1652.

Some people, not far from this Parliament, sleep in the cemetery. Our country is similar to the one which was described by prophet Isaiah when he said: “Your country is desolate ÿ.ÿ.ÿ. Strangers devour it in your presence.”

Kusenkangala elizweni lenu. Umhlaba wenu udliwa ngabasemzini. [Your country is a desolate one. Strangers help themselves in it.]

When the land bomb explodes in this country, Zimbabwe will look like a lovely cricket match. There must be equitable distribution of land in our country. I thank you, Chair. [Time expired.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, this debate takes me down memory lane and reopens wounds that were created by the apartheid system.

Yes, conditions in our democratic South Africa have definitely improved. First of all, we have shifted from an apartheid regime to one of building a democracy. We have shifted away from parliamentary supremacy to constitutional supremacy. Now we have geographical boundaries only in terms of provinces and municipalities, and no longer in terms of group, creed or colour borders. No trains, buses, beaches, shelters, etc, are reserved for whites only. [Applause.]

Today we are in a free country. Yes, that is an improvement. We have change in governance and policies, and we have an approach that is answerable to our people through a transparent and accountable system which, compared to 1994 alone, is a massive shift in change. Compared to 1994, community involvement has increased substantially and has contributed greatly towards ensuring delivery of the needs of our people.

Further, sanitation has been improved for a further 1 million people, and six kilolitres of water are provided free of charge. The MF notes that there are many more achievements that have not been mentioned, but those that have, deserve applause. Needs have still to be met in many respects, but these achievements indicate that this Government is delivering. The MF supports development, improvement and a better life for all South Africans. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mnr C AUCAMP: Agb Voorsitter, ‘n mens hoef nie Siener van Rensburg te gewees het om gisteraand toe ek hierdie toespraak gemaak het, te kon voorspel hoe hierdie debatspunt deur die verskillende partye gehanteer sou word nie.

Die ANC het gaan syfers uithaal om te wys hoe dinge verbeter het: Soveel huise, soveel meer mense met vars drinkwater en dies meer. Die DP het met ‘n ander stel syfers gaan aantoon hoe dinge eintlik versleg het: Groter werkloosheid, misdaad, ‘n klein, swart elite en die massas swakker daaraan toe. Die Nuwe NP kon jy verwag sou sê: Mooi so, maar dit kan beter, veral met ons hulp en ondersteuning. Die VF en die NA: Maar wat van taal, kultuur en die regte van gemeenskappe? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Hon Chairperson, last night when I delivered this speech, one did not need to be Siener Van Rensburg to have been able to predict how this debating point would have been handled by the various parties.

The ANC quoted figures to demonstrate how things have improved: So many houses, so many more people with fresh drinking water and so forth. The DP had another set of figures, demonstrated how things have actually deteriorated: Greater unemployment, crime, a small black elite, and the masses in a poorer position. The New NP one could expect to say: Well done, but things can improve, especially with our help and support. The FF and the NA: But what about language, culture and the rights of communities?]

To the PAC I say: Yes, but what about land - exactly as it happened!

So ploeg elkeen met hierdie vraag, maar daar is ander probleme met die vraag. Vordering en sukses moet nie gemeet word aan 1994 se maatstaf nie, maar met 2003 se doelstellings en realiteite. Die eintlike vraag moes wees: Waar kon ons gewees het, want beter is nog nie noodwendig goed genoeg nie? ‘n Regering is ook nie alles nie en buitefaktore soos ‘n wêreldwye ekonomiese afplatting moet verreken word, maar ook die markte wat vir ons oopgegaan het wat eintlik baie beter omstandighede geskep het.

‘n Blote sommetjie van hoeveel mense nog nie huise, krag of water het nie, kan ook weer ‘n versoeking word vir populistiese beleidsrigtings eerder as volhoubare groeigedrewe strategieë. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[That is how everyone struggles with this question, but there are other problems with regard to the question. Progress and success should not be measured according to the yardstick of 1994, but against the aims and realities of 2003. The real question should have been: Where could we have been, since better is not necessarily good enough? A government is not everything, and external factors like a world-wide economic levelling out must be taken into account, but also the markets which have opened up for us, which have actually created much improved circumstances.

A mere calculation of how many people still do not have houses, electricity or water, can also in turn become a temptation towards populist policy directives, rather than sustainable growth-driven strategies.]

What is the moral of the story?

Hierdie vraag moet nie ‘n debatspunt wees om oor te stry nie, maar ‘n agendapunt om aan te werk. Suid-Afrika het die potensiaal om ‘n vreedsame, leefbare tuiste vir al sy mense te bied.

Die Nasionale Aksie wil veral vier uitstaande faktore identifiseer wat bo- aan hierdie agenda moet wees en waarin ons wel swakker daaraan toe is as in 1994: Misdaad, werkloosheid, Vigs en die marginalisering en vervreemding van minderhede. Kom ons spreek hierdie vier sake gesamentlik aan, nie op ‘n debatsagenda nie, maar op ‘n werksagenda; en ons meet vir ons in die volgende debat, nie aan 1994 nie, maar aan die res van die Eerste Wêreld. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[This question should not be a debating point to argue about, but an agenda point to work on. South Africa has the potential to offer all its people a peaceful, bearable home.

The National Action especially wants to identify four salient factors which should be at the top of the agenda and in which we are certainly worse off since 1994: Crime, unemployment, Aids and the marginalisation and alienation of minorities. Let us tackle these four issues simultaneously, not on a debating agenda, but on a working agenda; and in the next debate, let us measure ourselves, not against 1994, but the rest of the First World.]

Mr C M MORKEL: Chair, we also need to ask the question: Has the ANC done the right thing over the past 10 years to deliver a better life for all the youth of South Africa? Yes, now we do have political freedom, but do we have socioeconomic freedom in the country? The answer is an emphatic no. [Interjections.]

The youth of our country view many ex-ANC politicians-cum-businessmen in the same light as many of our township youth view gang leaders as their only economic heroes. [Interjections.] These overnight heroes of black economic enrichment are paraded around as the new ANC elite at the expense of our youth.

The ANC supports a black economic empowerment strategy that does not reward merit and enriches the ANC elite with empowerment funds, whilst many communities remain disadvantaged. It is thus by intent that the ANC Government has created a worse life for most of our youth. [Interjections.] It is clear that the ANC is intent on protecting people like Chippy and Shabir Shaik, Mac Maharaj, Tony Yengeni, Alan Boesak and others who continue to rape and pillage the country’s scarce resources. [Interjections.] Deny that! Deny that! How much more of this abuse does the ANC expect our youth to take before our future heroes revolt? [Interjections.]

A popular interactive TV show recently hosted a debate on the relevance of the National Youth Commission. An overwhelming number of youths, especially blacks youths, called in and SMS-ed the comment line with insults, clearly indicating that they were angry with the ANC Government. [Interjections.] Ignore that! The DA believes that organised youth need to be given more support so that they can hold the Youth Commission structures accountable.

The unspent billions of rands still locked in Government funds, such as the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, need to be released more rapidly and not only before elections. It must deliver what it promised our disempowered youth when the ANC used the slogan “Sekunjalo.” When is now - 10 years later? [Interjections.]

It is wrong to continually blame colonialism and apartheid - or even the opposition - for the ANC’s failure to deliver after 10 years of absolute power. It has been absolute. I believe that the DA is the only viable alternative to the absolute power and corruption of the ANC Government. [Interjections.]

I also believe it is corrupt for the ANC to use the “herstigte Nuwe NP” as much as they used Peter Marais and David Malatsi, and then disposed of them … [Interjections.] … Ja, Johnny. Kyk Johnny. [Interjections.] … and disposed of them like a dirty napkin after wiping the gravy off their mouths. [Interjections.]

Voters will be reminded that the DA has already proven that it can and will deliver to all people crying for our beloved country. [Interjections.] Our delivery in the Western Cape was destabilised - and don’t forget that - by the power-hungry ANC-New NP alliance.

The DA is the only real alternative to the ANC in the next election. By then, if not earlier, the “herstigte Nuwe NP” will have been swallowed up and spat out by the ANC. I thank you. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, I would just like to draw your attention to the fact that earlier this afternoon you indicated that the House to the left of you was making a continuous noise. As I did not want to interrupt our speaker then, I really would like to ask you now what on earth was happening on that side of the House while our speaker was speaking? [Interjections.] The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Could we appeal to those hon members to calm down. I had cast my eyes in that direction as I did before when I called the House to order. We ought to give the members at the podium an opportunity to be heard.

Mr A C NEL: Chairperson, the fact that the DA has posed the question: ``Have conditions improved in South Africa since 1994?’’ is a symptom of the fact that we are a nation still engaged in the difficult process of healing the divisions of our painful past. We are a nation that understands its past in ways that reflect the racial, class and gender divisions caused by the very past we understand so differently.

Yesterday the hon Tony Leon wrote in his weekly Internet column:

However, one recent cause for optimism in South Africa is the fact that the national debate is shifting towards a discussion of the needs of the poor. The DA has played a critical role in that shift. [Interjections.]

This month we are bringing the debate …

That’s this debate -

…to the floor of the National Assembly.

An HON MEMBER: Sies!

Mr A C NEL: What is it that causes us to understand ostensibly clear words, such as recent'',national debate’’, ``shifting’’ …

Mr M J ELLIS: Mr Chairman, I rise on a point of order. Is it parliamentary to use the word ``sies’’ in Parliament? [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: It is unparliamentary. Which hon member used the word ``sies’’? [Interjections.] I heard it. I want to appeal to members to note that we are interrupting the speakers at the podium by doing this. Could we please refrain from using that word. Please continue, Mr Nel.

Mr A C NEL: … shifting'' andneeds of the poor’’ in ways that are so different. Perhaps the problem is that arrogance, born of the enjoyment of privilege over generations, has made some of us believe that debates are significant and meaningful only on condition that we not only participate in, but lead and dictate the terms and directions of those debates. [Interjections.]

One wonders what it is that the founders of the SA Native National Congress were doing in Mangaung in 1912, if not engaging in a national debate on what to do about the situation that the poor and oppressed majority of South Africans found themselves in. Equally, the question arises what the drafters of the document Africans’ Claims in South Africa were doing in 1943, if not addressing themselves to the needs, aspirations and rights of the dispossessed and downtrodden majority of our country.

Surely, the lengthy process of collecting and discussing the concerns and demands of the poorest of the poor across the length and breadth of our country, in preparation for the Congress of the People in Kliptown in 1955, constituted a national debate about the needs of the poor?

The Freedom Charter adopted at this congress proclaimed: The people shall govern; the people shall share in the country’s wealth; there shall be work and security; the land shall be shared among those who work it; there shall be houses, security and comfort; the doors of learning and culture shall be opened.

Perhaps the hon Leon believes that nothing of much consequence could have come from the poor and oppressed themselves debating their own needs in the absence of the privileged. [Interjections.]

The Reconstruction and Development Programme was the product of the creativity and determination of millions of the poor and oppressed, organised in the ANC, the SA Communist Party, the Congress of SA Trade Unions and the SA National Civic Organisation …

Prof B TUROK: Chair, the Leader of the Opposition has a very privileged seat in this House. He is very close to speakers and therefore he’s in a very privileged position to disrupt and harass a speaker. Now, it may be true that members on this side of the House have made a noise and have interjected and so on, but members at the back here are not in the privileged position that the Leader of the Opposition is. He has done that to the President; he is doing it to the present speaker, and I ask you to protect the speaker. [Interjections.]

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: That is shocking, Ben. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Please continue, hon Nel.

Mr A C NEL: Yes, the thing is Andries also happened to listen without interrupting when the Leader of the Opposition spoke. So please extend me the same courtesy. [Interjections.]

The Reconstruction and Development Programme was the product of the creativity and determination of millions of poor and oppressed, organised in the ANC …

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, hon Nel. Order! Hon members, I don’t think it is appropriate that there is an ongoing commentary while Mr Nel is trying to address the House. I think a point of order was taken. We did not rule that the hon Leader of the Opposition was out of order, and I expect members, then, to adhere to the request being made, namely that we accord the member at the podium an opportunity to speak. Now, can we please do that? When there is a speaker at the podium, it is unparliamentary to give running commentary while in close proximity to that speaker. I think we should accord the member at the podium the opportunity to speak.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr Chairman, may I address you on your ruling, which I happen to agree with? What I am pleading for, Sir, without interrupting Mr Nel, is some equity in this place. Members of the ANC go out of their way to sabotage our speakers with interjections, and with bogus points of order, in my case.

My privileged position Mr Turok talks about was actually given to me by the voters, Mr Turok. [Interjections.] It wasn’t given to me by myself, and that’s why I sit here. However, the hon members of the ANC do not treat hon members of the opposition with even basic courtesy in this House, Mr Chairman, and we look to you in your position as the Chair to deal with us equitably. That’s all. Fair is fair, Mr Chairman. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon members, it is not the duty or the practice of the Chair to intervene in everything that any member does in this House, because the Chairs would actually then disrupt the debate in the House, which won’t be pleasant for you. However, we are left with no alternative but to keep on doing this. I appeal to you all in this House to please accord the speaker at the podium respect and also to uphold the dignity of this House whilst there is a debate taking place. I appeal to all members of the House.

Please continue, hon Nel.

Mr A C NEL: The Reconstruction and Development Programme was the product of the creativity and determination of millions of the poor and oppressed, organised in the ANC, the SA Communist Party, the Congress of SA Trade Unions and the SA National Civic Organisation to establish a framework to not only address the needs of the poor, but also to reconstruct our society as a whole.

Were the discussions that we conducted over a period of more than two years from 1994 to 1996 in the Constitutional Assembly not about the needs of the poor? The DP distinguished itself in these debates by being the strongest opposition to the clauses dealing with socioeconomic and property rights.

Over the past 10 years the work of this Parliament has been focused on little other than setting a policy and legislative framework for addressing the needs of the poor and overseeing the implementation of such. The role played by the DP in this decade-long national debate has been to be at the forefront of opposing most, if not all, measures that seek to redress the effects of apartheid, that seek to create a better life for all and to roll back the frontiers of poverty. [Interjections.]

We come back to the problem that we clearly understand our past in ways that are very different and, hence, we have a very different understandings of what measures are necessary to deal with that past. The overwhelming majority of South Africans understood and experienced apartheid as a comprehensive system of institutionalised racism that permeated every aspect of their lives.

The indigenous people were ruled as a conquered and colonised people. This was based on conquest and dispossession of the indigenous people of their land and its wealth. Access to 87% of the decisive sectors of productive land was racially determined by law to the advantage of whites.

The dominant white minority held monopoly over economic power - the land, mines, industry and commerce. As a result, the propertied classes were virtually exclusively white. It was a system that compelled the indigenous people to be a source of cheap labour. The aforementioned was maintained by, amongst other things, a repressive state machinery that conducted a reign of terror against the majority of South Africans. All of this was rationalised on the basis of the racial superiority of whites.

National oppression pervaded all aspects of life for blacks in general, and Africans in particular. Economic, social and developmental indicators, such as poverty and underdevelopment; exclusion from education, clean water, electricity, food and health; low incomes; low levels of skills; and a generally unsafe environment characterised the day-to-day life experience of the majority of South Africans.

Apartheid colonialism also meant the systematic suppression of the talents, creativity and capacity of women to play their role in the ordering of the nation’s affairs. Much more than any other sector, colonial oppression and a universal patriarchal culture, including socially constructed gender roles, conspired to degrade women and treat them as subhuman. These gender roles permeate all spheres of life, beginning with the family, and are entrenched by stereotypes, dominant ideas, cultures, beliefs, traditions and laws.

Yet, in his speech during this year’s state of the nation debate, Mr Leon boldly asserts:

But the South African reality is that for millions of our fellow citizens, life is no better now than it was in 1994. For many people, in spite of political freedom, life is actually worse.

Perhaps the problem is that some of us still do not regard others as human beings of equal humanity and worth, because when the DA, through Mr Leon, says that life is worse for many people than it was under apartheid, they are saying the following. They are saying that it was less offensive to the dignity of some people to be treated as subhuman on the basis of their race or gender than for other people. They are saying that it was less humiliating for some people to be treated as foreigners in the land of their birth than for other people. They are saying that it was less fundamental for some people to be denied the right to vote than for other people. [Interjections.] They are saying that it was less hurtful for some parents … [Applause.]

They are saying that it was less hurtful for some parents to see the potential of their children being wasted than for others. They are saying that it was less traumatic for some people to live in fear of arbitrary arrest, detention, torture and assassination than for others. They are saying that it was less heart-rending for some people to die exiled from the land of their ancestors than for others. They are saying that some people were less attached to the land and homes, from which they were forcibly removed, than were others. They are saying that it was less frustrating for some people to have their entire human potential restricted through Bantu Education, job reservation, pass laws, the Group Areas Act, the Land Act, the Immorality Act and the Mixed Marriages Act than for others.

In short, the DA is saying that it was normal and not very much out of the ordinary for Africans to be regarded as savages and to be treated as such. [Interjections.] [Applause.] They downplay the enormity of the reign of terror that was perpetrated against all facets of the humanity of the majority of South Africa’s people. They ask: Have conditions improved in South Africa since 1994?

Since 1994 the Government, led by the ANC, with the involvement and support of the overwhelming majority of South Africans, black and white, has ensured that, amongst other things, 486 new clinics have been built in many rural areas; 3,8 million electricity grid connections have been established; 1,4 million hectares of land have been redistributed and 512 000 hectares of land have been restituted; 26 000 emerging black farmers have been assisted; 4,5 million learners are receiving meals under the primary school nutrition programme; social grants have increased in both quantity and in terms of the range of beneficiaries; and year on year our national Budget has been directing more and more resources to social spending.

We live in a country in which we can truly say ``South Africa belongs to all who live in it, black and white.’’ We live in a country in which the rule of law and the supremacy of our Constitution are respected. We live in a country in which we can be proud to be South Africans, united in our diversity, working together to create a better life for all our people. This is not to suggest for one moment that the road ahead is not still very long or that all South Africans have benefited equally, or that mistakes have not been, are not being and will not be made in the process of pushing back the frontiers of poverty.

Yes, conditions have improved in South Africa. Unfortunately, the arrogance of some of those who have consistently tried to block these improvements has not. [Interjections.] Yesterday, during Questions to the President, Miss Raenette Taljaard asserted that race is being displaced by class as the fundamental dividing line in our society. This statement is based on a wrong conception of the relationship between racial oppression and class exploitation in South Africa that can only set back the cause of social transformation. Have our own home-grown Tories become champions of the working class? Hardly.

Mr Leon says in his speech during the state of the nation debate:

We must focus on the welfare of the individual human being. Not a particular race of human beings, or a class of human beings, or ``the masses’’. No - we must focus on the woman, the man, the child, each created uniquely in the image of God.

However, the stubborn fact, consistently denied by the DA, is that those of us who were oppressed by apartheid were not oppressed as individuals, neither were those of us who were advantaged by apartheid advantaged as individuals. [Applause.] We were advantaged and disadvantaged as members of certain races, genders and classes. What does the DA mean when it says that race does not matter? It means that the grotesquely distorted patterns of ownership of, control over and access to socioeconomic power along racial lines must be accepted as normal, or incidental at best.

What we must be suspicious of are those black entrepreneurs who, in the face of tremendous obstacles, are slowly deracialising our economy, with or without assistance from the state. They are characterised by the DA as an elitist group of corrupt, nepotistic cronies. [Interjections.] Put simply, the DA is saying that to be black and to be anything other than poor is inherently morally suspect. [Interjections.]

To paraphrase the President: In our specific situation, what this means is that those who are the fittest to survive, will survive. Those who are best able to qualify on the basis of merit, will qualify. Those whose race defined them as subhuman must now have no access to state support, which state must, after all, retreat to allow those who have the means to survive and dominate, to dominate. [Interjections.] I’m paraphrasing, and I said so.

The DP hopes that by propagating these distortions, they will succeed in the strategic objective of undermining the popular support of our movement, especially among the African people, and persuade the national minorities to turn against us. They hope that by consistently attempting to discredit our policies and arguing that they are ineffective in terms of solving the problems facing our country and people, they will succeed in persuading the majority to abandon our movement and switch its allegiance to political forces that oppose the creation of a better life for all.

These distortions betray the contempt and disdain the DA has for the poorest of the poor. They think they can continue to ride on the backs of those they exploited in the past by telling them untruths. The ANC has always respected the dictum ``Tell no lies, claim no easy victories.’’

The struggle to achieve a better life for all will be a long and difficult one. [Interjections.] However, our policies are correct. A solid foundation has been laid. Significant progress has been made in a relatively short time. The pace of delivery is speeding up. The tide has turned. With the support and involvement of the masses of our people we will succeed, just as we succeeded in defeating apartheid.

The ANC has declared 2003 the Year of United Action to Push Back the Frontiers of Poverty. The ANC’s programme for 2003 will see our branches taking forward the experience of the Letsema volunteer campaign by mobilising communities to work in partnership with Government to push back the frontiers of poverty.

Drawing on the spirit and practice of last year’s Letsema campaign, which was launched to mark the ANC’s 90th anniversary, the 2003 programme will seek to mobilise all sectors of society in working to encourage job creation, tackle the effects of poverty, expand service delivery and build safer communities. We urge all South Africans to join us in these endeavours. Thank you. [Applause.]

Prof B TUROK: Chair, when the hon Nel quoted the statement of Amilcar Cabral to the effect that you should tell no lies and claim no easy victories, I heard the hon Leon say: ``You’ve been doing that throughout this speech,’’ namely that the hon Nel was lying. I think that is unparliamentary. I ask him to withdraw that. The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Mr Chairman, first of all I am indebted to Mr Turok for advising us of the provenance of the quotation, which the hon Nel declined to tell this House. In fact, Mr Nel’s speech, if you could actually listen to it, stated that my entire approach was based on claiming easy victory and telling lies, and I simply replied that he’d done exactly the same. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Leon, could you address yourself to the point of order raised by the hon Turok.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: It’s not a point, Sir.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: It is.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: I was responding to what the hon Nel said - that my speech consisted of claiming easy victories and telling lies. I said his speech had been exactly that. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Leon … The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Sorry, Sir. I never understand Mr Turok and I particularly don’t understand him tonight, because I cannot understand if an hon member of Mr Turok’s own party stands up and makes a speech in which he quotes, without attribution, that you must tell no lies and claim no easy victories, and I say, ``Your speech consists of that,’’ that somehow I’m out of order and the person who said it before Parliament isn’t out of order. The thing is incomprehensible, Chair. [Interjections.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon members, if it was implied that the speech contained lies, then, obviously, it’s not directed at the member. Now, Mr Leon, we have to rely on what you are telling us as an hon member, namely that you referred to the speech and not to the individual, or the hon Nel. On those grounds we’ll rule that that was not unparliamentary. I must say that this has been a very difficult afternoon with a lot of problems in terms … [Interjections.]

Well, it might not be exciting for the Chair, who has to maintain a particular decorum in the House, when there is a lot of vulgarity going backwards and forwards. It hasn’t been easy at all, and I don’t think it stands us in good stead. However, that concludes the debate on this subject.

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 19:05. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Bills passed by Houses - to be submitted to President for assent:

 (1)    Bills passed by National Council of Provinces on 27 March 2003:
     (i)     National Development Agency Amendment Bill [B 70B - 2002]
             (National Assembly - sec 75).


    (ii)     Food Relief Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 16 - 2003]
             (National Assembly - sec 77).


   (iii)     Gold and Foreign Exchange Contingency Reserve Account
             Defrayal Bill [B 17 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 77).

1. Referrals to committees of tabled papers:

 (1)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Environmental Affairs and Tourism and to the Select Committee on
     Land and Environmental Affairs for consideration and report:


     (a)     Southern African Development Community Protocol on
          Fisheries, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
          Constitution, 1996.


     (b)     Explanatory Memorandum on the Protocol.


 (2)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Finance and to the Select Committee on Finance:


     Explanatory Memorandum on the Food Relief Adjustments
     Appropriation Bill, 2003.


 (3)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Transport and to the Select Committee on Public Services. The
     Report of the Auditor-General is referred to the Standing
     Committee on Public Accounts for consideration and report:


     Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Transport for
     2001-2002, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
     Financial Statements for 2001-2002 [RP 167-2002].
 (4)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Transport:


     Response to a resolution passed by the House on 23 October 2002 in
     respect of the safety of travelling on Metrorail, with specific
     reference to an incident on a train to Khayelitsha.


 (5)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Home Affairs and to the Select Committee on Social Services:


     General Notice No 487 published in Government Gazette No 24952
     dated 21 February 2003: Regulations for public comment in terms of
     section 7 of the Immigration Act, 2002 (Act No 13 of 2002).


 (6)    The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Foreign Affairs and to the Select Committee on Economic and
     Foreign Affairs:


     (a)     Report on South Africa's International Relations for 2002-
          2003.


     (b)     Strategic Plan of the Department of Foreign Affairs for
          2003-2004.


 (7)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Defence and to the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional
     Affairs:


     The Strategic Business Plan of the Department of Defence for 2003-
     2004 [RP 25-2003].


 (8)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Housing:


     Strategic Plan of the Department of Housing for 2003-2006.


 (9)    The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Trade and Industry and to the Select Committee on Economic and
     Foreign Affairs:


     The Medium-Term Strategy Framework of the Department of Trade and
     Industry for 2003-2006.


 (10)   The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
       Agriculture and Land Affairs and to the Select Committee on Land
       and Environmental Affairs:


     The Medium-Term Strategic and Operational Plan of the Department
     of Land Affairs for 2003-2007.

(11) The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on Communications and to the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises:

     Strategic Plan of the Government Communication and Information
     System for 2002-2005. National Assembly:

1. Membership of Portfolio and Standing Committees:

 (1)    The following changes have been made to the Committees
     mentioned, viz:


     Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:


     Appointed: Madikiza, G T.


     Public Accounts:


     Appointed: Madikiza, G T; Koornhof, G W (Alt).
     Discharged: Holomisa, B H.

1. Bills passed by National Council of Provinces and transmitted to National Assembly:

 (1)    Message from Council to Assembly:


     (i)     Bill, as amended, passed by Council on 27 March 2003 and
          transmitted for consideration of Council's amendments:


          (a) Division of Revenue Bill [B 9D - 2003] (National Assembly
              - sec 76).


     The amended Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on
     Finance for a report and recommendations on the Council's
     amendments.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Education:

 Strategic Plan of the Department of Education for 2003-2005.