WEDNESDAY, 11 JUNE 2003
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                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
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The House met at 14:04.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                           POINTS OF ORDER

                              (Ruling)

The SPEAKER: Order! Hon members, I wish to give rulings on two points of order that were taken. The first one concerns a notice of motion.

On 4 June, the hon Mr Smith gave notice of a motion concerning an earlier notice of motion by the hon Ms Taljaard that had appeared on the Order Paper. In response to points of order, I undertook to look at both notices of motion and to rule on their admissibility.

In ruling on these notices, I must remind hon members that we are in the process of developing practices for notices of motion and the Whips have decided to review the guidelines for notices of motion that were published in February. Pending the outcome of that review, I have based my rulings, and will need to continue to do so, on the Rules and on established practice.

The hon Ms Taljaard, in her notice of motion which was published on the Order Paper of 30 May, claimed that the Auditor-General had stated, and I quote:

… that he had no choice in editing the JIT Report due to section 4(6) of the Auditor-General Act of 1995.

It is not for me to decide on the accuracy of the hon member’s claim as to what the Auditor-General said.

On the basis of Ms Taljaard’s understanding that the Auditor-General had said that he had no choice in editing, her notice of motion went on to say, and I quote:

… the statement of the Auditor-General merely serves to confirm that key issues were either edited out or glossed over by the JIT Report.

The allegation was made that the Auditor-General improperly altered the report, edited out or glossed over key issues. This can be regarded as reflecting on the competence or honour of the Auditor-General which, in terms of Rule 66, may only be done by way of a substantive motion. The notice of motion is therefore out of order and will be removed from the Order Paper. [Applause.]

Concerning the notice of motion by the hon Mr Smith, he called on the DA to stop distorting the facts and a point of order was taken on that. The reference there was to a party and remarks addressed to a party are permissible when they would not necessarily be so if addressed to a member. That notice of motion is in order. [Applause.]

We will now come to notices of motion and I assure members that we will be more vigilant before we publish any in future. I apologise to the House that we did not pick it up. We will provide a written record of the ruling to both of the members concerned.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

Debate on Vote No 10 - Public Service and Administration; Vote No 11 - Public Service Commission; and Vote No 12 - South African Management Development Institute:

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Madam Speaker, members of this House, and all members in the public gallery, public servants and organised labour, as I speak to you today we are moving into the tenth year of our democracy - 10 years of ANC Government. Today we can reflect with pride on the fact that more or less a decade has elapsed since we in the ANC penned down some of our initial thoughts on what we wanted the Public Service to be like in a democratic South Africa … [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Mr Ellis, are you suggesting that you are responsible for this? The microphones are now back in order. So, be careful of what you say. Hon Minister you may now proceed.

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Ready to Govern and Reconstruction and Development Programme documents reflect our thoughts and ideals as they were in 1992 and 1994.

Ten years later, we can proudly state that we have come a long way in creating the reality in which our visions for this society could translate into being more than mere images. We can say that, notwithstanding the serious challenges in the transformation process, we have made significant headway in taking control of the most powerful machinery of state. We have done so in the same spirit as the one in which the President, during his state of the nation address, pursued the theme of the turning of the tide and the rallying call that our tasks are to take the tide at the flood in order to further the progress towards the achievement of our goals.

I want to present my portfolio to you, the representatives of the people. I want to demonstrate to you that, indeed, the tide has turned. The major themes of our work over the past 10 years have been the restructuring and professionalisation of the Public Service, and the integration of service delivery. I will speak more to these issues in my presentation.

We have achieved much as South Africans in terms of our Public Service successes. But we are also aware that more remains to be done and that, while we have created frameworks and foundations, consistent implementation and long-term application are required if we are to succeed in our venture.

It would not be possible to list all the work undertaken in the Ministry and in our affiliated departments and organisations. Hence, today I will present only a snapshot of our efforts over the past year and explain how some of these will be taken forward in future in order to support the turning of the tide and to create a better life for all.

As we continue to accelerate the pace of change, I want to repeat the President’s appeal to all South Africans to participate in the Letsema campaign, our volunteer programme. The Ministry has been involved in several Letsema activities over the past year, including the registration of children who had no birth certificates in Ngqushwa, training in Postmasburg, and painting and cleaning in the Orlando West old age home. Further Letsema activities were undertaken in Qwaqwa, Mpumalanga, Limpopo and at the Alexandra Police Station in Gauteng; this is when public servants walk the extra mile.

Restructuring our Public Service into the kind of people-centred delivery vehicle that we want has consumed enormous energy over the past 10 years. Consolidating dispersed administrations, creating a modern, functional structure and current moves to deploy staff where they are needed have been major milestones. We are on a further lap of this process. The next few months will be critical in placing our staff correctly and thereby improving our performance.

The restructured Public Service has indeed turned the tide by acting boldly and decisively. We have taken the tide at the flood by acting with courage and care and, as a result, we all well know where we are headed. We know that we seek to create a developmental and people-orientated Public Service that delivers the service effectively and are actively working towards making this vision a reality.

When we consider how the South African Public Service has changed over the past decade, it is useful to remember the kind of Public Service that the ANC had to deal with on coming into power in 1994. So, in order to remind us of this, I decided to quote from Keith Gottschalk’s Awareness Programme, the Grammar Lesson, and I quote:

class/ always we have had prose / mood: imperative/ case: possessive/ tense: pluperfect/ voice: passive, negative/ person: singular./ examples: moenie”/ toonbank gesluit"/slegs blankes”/ waar's jou pas?''/ we will show no mercy”/ ``laat die donner vrek”/ this is called traditional grammar.’’

When we came into government we found a very divided and conflicted Public Service. Each of the Bantustans operated their own administrations while the core Public Service was hierarchical, chauvinistic and highly reactionary. Many of the constituent administrations were naked instruments for patronage and were more concerned with directing resources to favoured groups than with providing the kinds of developmental public services needed by ordinary people.

Our first major challenge was to forge a single, coherent public service from all the various pieces and I believe that we have succeeded well in that long-term and daunting task. There are still many things we need to do, but we have created a solid and detailed foundation upon which to structure our future efforts. Our work has also defined a progressive and creative management approach that seeks to empower managers and to create a satisfying work environment for all employees.

Our second major challenge was to influence the core values of our public servants and to make them true servants of the people, true agents of development in a society that desperately needed that, true practitioners of democratic values and principles in a society that had just turned its back on the precipice of self-destruction in this country and its peoples in the late 80s and early 90s.

With the role models that we have had, and have, in our movement, we are confident that we can effect the turnaround. Our democratic movement was and still is rich, as stated in the words of our President at the funeral of Tata Sisulu and I quote him:

… the unheralded nobility of the masses of our people, the representatives who decided that their lives were worth nothing unless they dedicated those lives to the service of our people.

We have also produced a shared vision of the kind of developmental and participatory Public Service that we want to have in future. And the Public Service Commission’s research has shown that most national and provincial departments have incorporated programmes aimed at alleviating poverty into their workplans and that many policies and programmes are now developed using consultative and participatory methods.

The Personnel Expenditure Review which was undertaken in 1999 showed that there was a skewed distribution of personnel in the Public Service. The 2003 Intergovernmental Fiscal Review has shown that the shortages in the Public Service are generally felt in the health and criminal justice sectors, whereas public works, transport and agriculture tend to experience surpluses in personnel. Provincial data from 2001 indicated that in the region of 3,4% of noneducator staff resigned during that period.

It is important that public servants are deployed where they are most needed and can have the biggest impact. Social service sectors should be prioritised. While most public servants are employed in the social services sector, in some provinces a disproportionate number of staff are deployed elsewhere. For example, while Gauteng and the Western Cape employ 6,1% and 7% of their staff respectively in the nonsocial sectors, Limpopo has 23,6% of its staff in the nonsocial sector. Most of the other provinces employ in excess of 15% of their staff in the nonsocial services sectors. Such inconsistencies in deployment patterns should and must be critically reviewed.

As you know, Resolution 7 of 2002 is an agreement between the state as an employer and the public service trade unions on the transformation and restructuring of the Public Service. Its emphasis is on the appropriate and effective placement and utilisation of human resources, and it provides a mechanism to meet the current restructuring needs.

Characteristic to our approach to restructuring, the Public Service has seen a consultative and dynamic relationship with the unions that represent workers and public servants. We will never achieve the kind of Public Service that we want without fundamental reorganisation and restructuring.

Moving ahead as we wanted, regardless of workers’ and others’ opinions, may have been very tempting. Many citizens may well have supported us if we had sought to crush resistance and ignore opposition. But I am proud to state today that, as Government, we have taken another route - one that is further evidence of the way the tide has turned.

A consultative, negotiated restructuring is far more likely to deliver our desired results in the long term and is consistent with our tradition of inclusivity and accountability. The Public Service Co-ordinating Bargaining Council and other institutions have played an invaluable role in this regard. This resolution provides an alternative to unilaterally determined layoffs and transfers.

By taking this route, we have succeeded in avoiding the damaging and destructive workplace conflict that often accompanies state restructuring. And, while it may take us longer, I am firmly of the opinion that this negotiated and consensus-based approach will serve us well in the future. Retraining and the implementation of social plans where job losses are unavoidable will ease the process and, we hope, contribute to building efficiency and effective service delivery by the Public Service.

We agreed on 30 June as the deadline for completion of this process. So we have less than three weeks until the process should be completed. More than half of the affected departments will meet the deadline and efforts are being made by the Department of Public Service and Administration and others to help those who are struggling to work within the timeframe. We are concerned that the process should be completed successfully and we will offer the necessary support where needed, although we are going to assess and examine each case critically and rigorously.

The types of support the DPSA can provide will include the identification and payment of human resource and organisational development specialists in order to assist departments with the finalisation and alignment of management plans and organisational structures. Enough of that.

Let me come to another agreement that we signed earlier today with the Public Service sector unions - and it was unanimously signed. I can announce an agreement on the annual, general salary increase for public servants for the financial year 2003-04 that was reached with our labour partners. The agreement provides for an 8,5% adjustment with effect from 1 July 2003. The signing of this agreement brings to a conclusion the three- year wage agreement. The general salary increase will be further enhanced by the introduction of a new pay progression system for public servants. This system is also to be implemented with effect from 1 July 2003. So, we have on the table 8,5% and an additional 1% for pay progression. [Applause.]

The Ministers’ Committee on the Budget, after much debate, agreed that this was the route to go. And, mind you, the Minister of Finance is on that budget committee, so there is no ``too much’’ from him. Further, in respect of the improvement of the conditions of service, a collective agreement was recently concluded to enable much-needed improvements to the benefit structure of the Government Employees Pension Fund, GEPF. Through the new … [Interjections.] I am not Judge Goldstone, so I don’t deal with members salaries. You should go to Judge Goldstone with regard to that.

Through the new agreement the benefit structure of the GEPF is expanded to include an orphan’s pension and a funeral benefit. The amended benefit structure also allows members to sacrifice part of the initial pension in return for a higher spouse’s pension entitlement. This change will also allow greater flexibility without increasing the value of pensions. It should also be mentioned that the definition of ``spouse’’ in the rules of the pension fund has been formally amended to include life partners, and is inclusive of same-sex life partners. To ensure that all members are treated equally and to prevent fraudulent claims, fund members will be required to register with the fund all persons who will be regarded as spouses.

Let’s go on to integration, which has been another major concern for the Public Service. We are looking at dynamic ways of integrating public service delivery so that our people, the citizens, are better able to access services and support. Information and communication technology is a major enabler, and we are working towards harnessing this potential. We have also become respected members of the global community and we are helping to advocate the interests, and are part of those interests, of developing countries and the African continent.

I would like to note recent findings from the Public Service Commission Citizen Satisfaction Survey that reflected that in many instances citizens are satisfied with the services that they receive from Government. With regard to internal services it emerged that the users of the education department’s ABET services have a high level of satisfaction, while the Department of Health’s maternity users also reported a high level of satisfaction. Users of the Department of Housing services reported an acceptable level of satisfaction. A gap exists between expectations and performance in projects implemented by the Department of Social Development, although grant beneficiaries also indicated an encouraging level of satisfaction.

The problem in the Eastern Cape regarding the failure of the private service provider needs to be dealt with and it is being handled as we speak. In the words of the great Mahatma Gandhi, through our Batho Pele policy we say to our public servants, and I quote: ``You must be the change you wish to see in the world’’. Without internalising the Batho Pele principles, without committing each of the principles to the very core of his or her being, a public servant will not rise to what the South African people want from him or her.

Earlier, I mentioned the challenge of creating a single, coherent Public Service. We are committed to ensuring that we work together to ensure that our structures are based on function and strategy. Citizens need one-stop and value-added interactions with Government. Our current range of institutions do not always allow this. The Centre for Public Service Innovation (CPSI) is helping us to think about integration in terms of what is required by policy, structure, systems and staffing.

The mandate of the CPSI is to seek new and innovative ways of improving service delivery. For example, mobile technology is one possible delivery mechanism for remote access to Government. And, during this month, the CPSI is jointly releasing a report with the State Information Technology Agency and the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research on the use of mobile technologies to enhance public service delivery. We will be introducing pilot projects based on this report in order to test the value that could be added by mobile technology.

Our Constitution demands the creation of a single, coherent public service, and while we have achieved much in this regard we still have much more to do. We, therefore, need to critically review each and every request for the creation of new public entities - something for which the Department of Public Service and Administration has established a joint panel with the National Treasury.

The creation of a dispersed Public Service characterised by a disjointed, and some may well argue original looking, landscape is not what the Constitution intended for the country. The creation of other service delivery mechanisms should not simply be seen as dividing the Public Service, but should rather enhance it where they are appropriate and effective. Public entities can play an important role, but need to have a clear business case. One example of such a request that we have supported is for the creation of an agency to handle the administration of social grants. But, in some other cases we have been less easily convinced.

The panel has embarked on a major initiative to review all non-business public entities and Government enterprises, at national level, with a social focus on their governance frameworks. These efforts will assist in streamlining the Public Service, in line with constitutional requirements.

What has become apparent in our discussions with the Department of Provincial and Local Government, and the SA Local Government Association is that the existing separation between the Public Service and local governments does not serve us well. For this reason, we are moving to create a single service that includes the national, provincial and local tiers. [Applause.] It will be an integrated Public Service that will facilitate easier movement of staff between levels. It will also facilitate the assignment of certain functions to those local authorities who have the capacity and desire to play such roles.

This is a major initiative for the Public Service and, in the coming year, we hope to move steadily in a way that builds support and brings our partners along with us. Our approach will require the alignment of local governments with Public Service regarding pay scales, conditions of service and other important areas. Thus, it promises to be a challenging and exciting task. Provinces also have a very important role to play. And, the Integrated Provincial Support Programme remains DPSA’s flagship partnership with provinces and selected donors to improve service delivery.

A number of specific projects gained momentum during the past year, and their implementation will be accelerated and their impact deepened during the remainder of this year. For example, regarding planning for the turnaround of selected hospitals in Limpopo, the Maphutha Malatji Hospital

• which is a district hospital - and the Letaba regional hospital have been completed. The focus is now on implementation. I would encourage members of this House to go and look at those projects and to actually sense the high morale amidst public servants who work on these projects. I will speak more about these and other provincial projects tomorrow.

Once again, I would like to personally thank all the key players that partner with DPSA to make these programmes a success. Through the Gateway project, we will also set up integrated one-stop Government service centres within the multipurpose community centres and within municipalities. This is a joint initiative of the Department of Public Service and Administration, Centre for Public Service Innovation, State Information Technology Agency, Government Communication and Information System, working in conjunction with the Departments of Provincial and Local Government, and Communications. These centres will provide integrated access to Government services. The project, overall, includes an electronic portal and a toll- free call centre.

We have also taken note of the research that shows that only 3 million in our country of 42 million people make direct use of the Internet. It is hence imperative that our e-government initiatives, such as Gateway, incorporate realistic approaches to ensure that our citizens access services through face-to-face mechanisms and through intermediaries.

Another important component of our integration is our plan for the appointment of community development workers and managers who will, as our President put it, and I quote:

… maintain direct contact with the people where these masses live. We are determined to ensure that Government goes to the people so that we sharply improve the quality of the outcomes of public expenditures intended to raise the standard of living of our people.

Community development workers will provide a link between the different spheres of government as well as nongovernmental organisations that contribute towards development processes. And a number of pilot projects have been identified in the document that will come before Cabinet next week. We will keenly watch these projects in order to learn the important lessons that we can in order to take them forward on scale in the near future and to avoid any errors in this initiative.

We have also produced a directory of public services that details the types of services that are available in the Public Service sector, and it includes contact details of service providers. Our pilot project involves distributing the directory through the Johannesburg Metro. Based on what we learn there, we’ll roll it out nationally. The directory will also be available on the Government website. Sita continues to play a lead role in integrating Government information systems, and has identified priority projects to ensure that proper fiscal and global best practices are applied in the use of technology in the Public Service. In terms of licensing, Sita has successfully managed to conduct a licensing audit across Government.

The audit shows that some of the departments and provinces have either been overlicensed or are not utilising their licenses optimally. As a result, they have managed to cut licensing costs significantly. As a matter of fact, they are in the process of developing a shared central software bank where floating licenses will be deposited for deployment as the need arises. This will further increase savings. A platform for the efficient management and administration of Government licenses will also be created and the unnecessary procurement of licensing will be eliminated.

South Africa is also proud to be amongst the countries that have adopted open-source software policies. The improved returns on investment associated with the elimination of licensing are exciting. We look forward to the end of maintenance agreements that lock Government into expensive long-term contracts. The Government Information Technology Officers’ Council, Centre for Public Service Innovation and State Information Agency are working together to address issues around security, compatibility, interoperability and sustainability of the open-source software that we are going to adopt. They have established a business unit in this regard.

We will take this issue forward because the benefits will include customer choice for us as Government; the elimination of single vendor lock-ins; and ready-to-use and tailor-made solutions to fit our specific needs. This will lead to reduced IT costs for Government and more competition in the ICT marketplace which we hope, and are certain, will lead to a reduction in prices of packaged solutions. Sita has researched the total cost of IT ownership for Government, and the report has shown that 10% to 20% of investment can be avoided by taking proper account of the short product life cycles of IT equipment which result from rapid innovation.

In terms of our international programme, the past year provided a number of significant opportunities for the Public Service and Administration portfolio to contribute to international debates on governance, public service and public sector reforms. Participation in these events enabled us and our region to provide a prominent and persistent voice to the concerns of developing countries.

In Delhi, in November last year, we had the opportunity to consider the implication of these shifts for the field of public administration at the Second Specialised Conference of the International Institute of Administrative Sciences. The debates that were considered there have been taken forward. The International Association of Schools and Institutes of Administration are to use the relationship between public administration and inequality and exclusion as their theme for a conference later this year. This creates a more favourable global environment for the promotion of a developmental agenda.

We should also look at the whole issue of professionalisation regardless of rank. Public service is characterised by a commitment to operate professionally - not in terms of qualifications but rather how citizens are served and looking at matters like governance. Building a solid skills base and institutionalising our learning have been major strategic thrusts. Work culture and professional ethics have been priorities. Combating and preventing corruption is an important part of this. We are acting firmly to address the situation in the Eastern Cape and are aware that a long process is still needed.

For this year - through to the end of the programme that focuses on the human resource development strategy and specifically looks at building the competency of the senior management cadre as well as other levels - in order to ensure that we have requisite competencies and a work ethos that supports service delivery and Public Service transformation, the DPSA will focus on internships, learnerships and skills programmes to address the skills shortage and build skills in areas where they are scarce. To this end, it offers structured internship opportunities to students and unemployed youth to capture work experience for a maximum of 12 months by establishing an effective and efficient intern programme to bridge the gap between academic study and competent performance in the workplace.

It is anticipated that the Public Service, as the single largest employer in the country, stands to gain directly by improving on the quality of the skills pool from which it can draw future employees. As part of its strategy to combat the rising levels of unemployment amongst youth, Cabinet agreed in December 2002 that there would be a significant expansion of learnerships and internships in the Public Service. As a matter of fact, each Government department should enrol learners and interns to an equivalent of at least 5% of its establishment.

Regarding Samdi itself, one should state that during the preceding year numerous programmes have been engaged in. We’ve actually seen a roll-out of more than 23 000 public servants who have undergone training over the past year, of whom over 2 000 have successfully completed all 8 modules of the Public Service Leadership Development Programme which has been certified at the academic level of an honours degree. Of these, 249 are proceeding with a Master’s in Public Administration which is offered in partnership with the Open Learning Group, and the Universities of Potchefstroom and North West.

In order to allow for a special focus on middle and emerging managers, and in preserving the prestigious status of the PSLDP, Samdi has - with financial assistance from the Flemish government - designed a further management and training programme: the Integrated Management Development Programme. This course is designed to assist with the assessment process of both members of the senior management service as well as new entrants. This is being done in partnership with the University of Pretoria. The training programme has had a number of customised components and is currently being piloted in the Limpopo and KwaZulu-Natal programmes.

The achievements of Samdi need to be sustained through strong leadership. In this regard, we have appointed Mr Bobby Soobrayan as Samdi’s new director-general to steer this important institution. We wish him success in his challenging role.

The DPSA has launched a Learning and Knowledge Management Programme to help the Public Service become a series of learning organisations. As part of this programme, we have established national and provincial learning networks to ensure that there is sharing of experiences, lessons and solutions related to service delivery.

In December last year we hosted a South African Public Management Conversation which drew delegates from diverse backgrounds such as academics, civil society and international participants to explore synergies between different groups regarding service delivery issues and challenges. The multimedia CD that was generated out of the Conversation has attracted a lot of interest amongst academics, both nationally and internationally. For example, the Commonwealth Association for Public Administration and Management is circulating it amongst their membership. The second Conversation will take place in December 2003.

We have learnt a lot of hard lessons during our first decade in Government. I specifically want to focus on the Eastern Cape and the team that the President has tasked to work there along with the Premier of the Eastern Cape. In dealing with the problem of the province with the seriousness it deserves, there’s been the deployment of the Directors-General of both DPSA and the Public Service Commission to the Eastern Cape where they’ve been working on a full-time basis with provincial counterparts since the beginning of this year. The Eastern Cape has been a site of much learning and still poses tremendous challenges. Our public acknowledgement of the situation in the Eastern Cape, and our commitment to addressing it, is a further example of a new kind of Government that is open and solution- oriented.

The progress achieved so far includes the appointment of teams in target departments which have completed in-depth analyses in the areas of leadership; financial, human resource and general management; and administration, cultural and ethical matters. Service delivery challenges for each department as well as transversal issues have been identified. Procurement reform has been initiated, and the joint anti-corruption task team mentioned above has been created. I am pleased that the provincial executive committee accepted the turnaround plans for each of the departments in April 2003.

The unacceptable level of mismanagement and the widespread lack of discipline found in the provincial administration came as a shock to the people deployed to address the problems in the province. We need to acknowledge the severity of these problems, and we need to come up with strategies to address these very damaging features. Coming up with effective and sustainable solutions will not be a quick process, and will not be easy. But, as part of our commitment to good governance, I would like to assure you that we will act with all the resolve and care required.

In looking ahead, it’s necessary to state that the public management and the administration sectors in South Africa are exciting, dynamic and challenging. A wide range of problems need to be addressed. We are confident that we will deal with them. In all our endeavours of transforming the South African Public Service, the guiding light remains our desire to improve the plight of our people.

It is important to be able to link institutional objectives with performance appraisals. In this regard, the framework for the evaluation of heads of department has been dealt with in such a way so as to be able to serve this particular need. The evaluation of heads of department is aligned to the planning and Medium-Term Expenditure Framework cycles. Information assessed during the evaluation process includes their performance assessment, agreements, strategic plans, annual reports and a verification statement completed by the executive authority and the head of department. A number of recommendations and lessons emerged from the first year of implementation.

In executing this very important portfolio, I have been supported by the Department of Public Service and Administration, Samdi, the Public Service Commission, Sita and the Centre for Public Service Innovation. I want to thank each of the officials in these institutions for the effort that they put into making the transformation agenda work.

I want to thank every official elsewhere in the Public Service that has put in a hard year’s work and laboured for the realisation of our political vision and dream. I would love to single out a few, and I will do that in my concluding remarks when I close this debate because there are a few people, and two of them in this House today, who need to be acknowledged. There has been a process through which they have been identified in order to acknowledge them. I will also, in closing, deal with Golaganang and what has come from it.

I want to say that I am confident that we will be able to respond to the challenge stated in the first UN World Public Sector Report, and I quote: Governments without adequate capacity to recognise and respond to change are destined to be forever behind the waves of change. This Government, and more specifically the broad Public Service team have no intention to remain behind the waves of change. If anything, we would like to be the stimulus that causes the waves - waves of improvement - to wash away the poverty and dehumanisation of large sectors of our population forever. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr P J GOMOMO: Madam Speaker, Minister Fraser-Moleketi, management of the DPSA, PSC, Samdi and Sita, leadership of the trade unions present here, members of the public in the gallery, hon members, it is a time for reflection. As I make my own reflection at this time, I am guided by the Budget Vote debates that have already taken place, in the past few weeks, to conclude that we have made positive strides in the provision of services to millions of our people. This confirms that our resolve to turn the tide so as to push back the frontiers of poverty remains an attainable goal, more so if we have the right mix of Public Service personnel with their jobs, skills, location, tools and their other resources.

We committed ourselves to form a Public Service with a culture of serving the people in a responsive manner. As we sought, and seek, to sharpen this instrument we were aware, and we are still aware, of the historical legacies of apartheid-based public service policies and cultures that we would not inherit and perpetuate in the current dispensation; nor can we reform the past to suit the present, because the past and the present are irreconcilable.

And, as we reflect on the developments in this regard today, we are saying, as the ANC, that, yes, there are serious challenges in our endeavour to build a Public Service with a culture to provide a better service for all. My colleagues will allude to some of those challenges. But, what I want to put on record is the fact that the prevalence of challenges is no way an indication that we have failed. Rather, as we look at the seriousness of those challenges, we have more areas where we deserve to be credited for leading a Public Service reform process in the manner in which we are doing.

We managed to come out with a White Paper on the transformation of the Public Service, and with a vision to establish a Public Service that is representative, coherent, transparent, effective, efficient, accountable and responsive to the needs of all. This is a fact. We managed to come up with a White Paper on service delivery, which is a policy framework and a practical implementation strategy for the service delivery culture that prescribes the commandments for putting people first. This is a fact.

We successfully negotiated the multiyear salary structure for the Public Service personnel which seeks to deal with issues of salaries in keeping with the general trend of economic developments in the country. This is a fact. We came up with a Public Finance Management Act which introduced professionalism in dealing with matters of financial accountability as opposed to the then Exchequer and Audit Act. This is a fact.

We developed a Medium-Term Expenditure Framework, in terms of which we give room for the management of Public Service to budget within a three- year cycle. This is a fact. We established the Public Service Co-ordination Bargaining Council so as to provide for a forum for negotiating issues related to the Public Service and, in a manner, to ensure the absence of unilateralism in dealing with Public Service issues. This is a fact.

We established structures of the three-tier system of government and put forward mechanisms for co-operative governance. This is another fact. The list is long. To this end, I want to commend the Minister for the Public Service and Administration, and Government in general, for the sterling work done. I also want to thank the parties involved in the PSCBC processes.

But, as we reflect today, we do not want to claim complacently that all is well. The reality is that there is still a gap between policy and implementation, and this is the area on which I want to challenge all of us to internalise the obligation to turn around.

Notwithstanding the high-fliers in service delivery, as the Minister has alluded to, there are areas where we need to improve. We cannot tolerate a situation where Government departments will fail to spend their budgets while people are dying for the services that those budgets were meant to provide for. [Applause.] If we do not tighten our efforts as Parliament in the area of spending and make timeous interventions, we make a mockery of ourselves when, every year, we debate Budget Votes that we will not constantly monitor to ensure their implementation.

I want to thank the Ministry for making interventions such as the one in the Eastern Cape, for it is in doing some of these things that we will manage to get our Public Service delivery machinery in a proper gear to serve the people according to the policies of our Public Service. We hope that sooner rather than later the situation will be turned around there, and that those who contributed to the prevalence of such an unfortunate state of affairs will face the harshest of our interventions.

But, if we listen to people in such forums, as hon Mthembu will reflect on when he comes into this debate later on, we will come to the realisation that the situation in the Eastern Cape is generally applicable in some other provinces, with only a difference of a degree of manifestation. And, unless something is done, and it is done now, we may be heading for a collapse of the service. I want to say: Mayihlome ihlasele, [let us prepare to take action] as we confront the realities of inefficiency, ineffectiveness and corruption.

We hope that the current Public Service restructuring process will also add value to our achievements in so far as it seeks to place Public Service personnel with the right mix with regard to their jobs, skills, location, tools and their other resources. We support the process for we know that, contrary to the views of those who will seek to draw congruence between restructuring and retrenchments - due to the limitations of their understanding of the process - we stand to gain more in this venture.

In conclusion, I want to thank Madam Speaker for sharing her insight with the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration during our planning session earlier this year, as that shed light on the centrality of this portfolio committee in leading Parliament to play a meaningful role in ensuring accountability by the executive on matters of Public Service. I want to assure her that we are going on with the implementation of that planning session’s recommendations.

The ANC supports the Vote. I thank you. [Applause.] Mr R S NTULI: Madam Speaker, hon Ministers, hon members, officials of the department and organised labour, the present Government inherited a Public Service that was regulated by discriminatory employment policies and practices.

Through legislation and practice, the Ministry has virtually succeeded in removing discriminatory practices and policies in employment, thereby giving effect to democracy and societal transformation. These achievements are commendable because our country cannot afford to have any form of racism in the Public Service. A more representative workforce will assist in the development of a more responsive and effective Public Service, and an improved relationship between recipients of public services.

I would like to make a few comments though, hon Minister, on the South African Management Development Institute. The main objective of the institute is to provide practical and customer-driven training that can lead to improved performance and service delivery in the Public Service. True to its noble mission, the institute has delivered, and continues to do so. Samdi programmes have significantly contributed to the acquisition and implementation of new skills, increased levels of staff motivation and confidence, as well as overall improvement of the department’s performance.

Financial management and project management training is, according to reports from Samdi, receiving close attention. This is reassuring because the Public Finance Management Act calls for improved control over finance and project management control in the Public Service.

The Public Service Commission is another institution that renders valuable service. Management systems within the Public Service, including financial management, are improving. Yet, there are still serious pockets of corruption in our Public Service. The area of public management in which most corruption takes place is that of procurement. The purchasing of goods and services for the Public Service offers many opportunities for corruption.

Addressing corruption will take concerted and co-ordinated efforts, and must be driven at all levels of the public sector institutions. Instances of public servants being suspended on full pay while lengthy investigations are undertaken are not acceptable, and promote the impression that corruption is not taken seriously. It is gratifying that the hon Minister acknowledged these problems, especially regarding the Eastern Cape, and that corruption and mismanagement are receiving her serious attention.

Improving service delivery requires the reorganisation of work and the redeployment of public servants, both to overcome the severe regional irregularities left by the previous regime and to carry out new policies, and to respond to new circumstances. Restructuring aimed at meeting these demands has, however, been slow. Restructuring, we concede, is very difficult, because redeployment imposes substantial costs on the employees. Workers fear that restructuring may be a euphemism for downsizing, and the equalisation of conditions of service between workers established an expensive retrenchment package equal - in the care of senior employees - to between three and five years’ salary.

While we accept the complexity of proper wording or phrasing of such labour agreements some clauses are loosely phrased, for example clause 6.2 of Resolution 7, 2002, of the Public Service Co-ordinating Bargaining Council states that, and I quote:

The human resource plan must include, among others, post requirements and employee profiles taking into account, among others: qualifications, experience, training requirements and other skills and competencies.

Hon Minister, the big question is, what is implied or meant by among others''? That net is big enough to catch a shark. Who arbitrates over a vague phrase likeamong other things’’? These are some of the challenges facing the department. There are many other challenges, and the list may well include: retaining effective managers who are continually being poached by the private sector; developing career paths for lower level workers; coping with limited resources; managing change and conflict; improving service delivery, etc; and above all limiting the use of costly consultants and ensuring that where they are engaged there is sufficient transfer of their skills to the public sector workers to avoid their being re-engaged.

Finally, hon Minister, the three-year wage agreement with the trade unions, I believe, will afford the hon Minister a breathing space to attend to some of the challenges that I have attempted to outline. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr T ABRAHAMS: Hon Chairman, my comrades will address matters relating to the transformation of the Public Service in South Africa. I shall focus on continental reasons for the House to support the Budget Votes. We expected the DA to whinge and whine about the challenges that we face all over. Fortunately, hon Ntuli is wiser than his party. In the wake of triumphs gained by Presidents Mbeki, Obasanjo, Bouteflika and Wade with the G8 leaders in Evian, France, the import of these meetings for South Africa and Africa are clear. Industrialised countries have reaffirmed their support for Nepad and have reportedly agreed to all requests for the funding of its projects.

President Mbeki has wisely cautioned against requesting more than that which we have the collective capacity to process. The UN has meanwhile pledged to make Nepad the guiding framework for all its member agencies working in Africa. The ball is now truly in Africa’s court. But, if Africa must reinvent itself, it must first take stock of where it is today.

The population of Africa is highly concentrated in interior, landlocked countries whose borders were politically concocted 120 years ago by imperialist colonialists who ignored indigenous settlements in satisfying their greed. These politically inspired boundaries have been the cause of endless conflicts. Today, growth is hampered by ethnic strife, distance from coastal regions and core economic centres which render transport costs prohibitively high. The poor, tropical climate and outbreaks of malaria and HIV/Aids exacerbate the situation.

In the first flush of freedom, between 1960 and the mid-70s, dictatorships and military rule were tolerated by African people because of unprecendented economic growth. In the decades since, growth became unsustainable for a myriad of reasons. Key reasons among those were enormous, accumulated foreign debt, lamentable public service delivery and the paucity of private investment. Ethnic factionalism, corruption, violence and political instability have largely ruled against industralisation, trade and private investment.

Nepad is an Africa Union initiative which was developed in response to these challenges. It espouses the sustainable development of Africa in a swiftly globalising world. The objectives of Nepad that impact directly on public service delivery are pertinent to this debate.

Funds for public service delivery are restrained in many a country due to the government being the only, or by far the largest, employer. Therefore, while wage expenditure is high, inefficiency, waste and favouritism of a dominant ethnic group are not uncommon. The result is poor infrastructure which drives up costs for business and industry. Nepad favours private- sector involvement in Africa in order to free up government funds for the provision of public services in education, health and infrastructure while simultaneously addressing a preoccupation with exorbitant expenditure on weaponry.

In a thought-provoking opening address at the Fourth Pan-African Conference of Ministers of Public Service held on 4 May, President Mbeki vividly illustrated this point by quoting an apt anecdote from Thomas Sankara. This keynote address guided discussions which culminated in the Stellenbosch Declaration which embodies an agreed and clear-cut programme of action on governance and public administration for Africa.

Prodigious amounts have been spent on public service reform interventions in Africa in the past decade. These intercessions have been ineffectual largely because of uncertain institutional capacity, ineffective administration systems and reformed processes. Experts estimate that the number of desperately poor Africans has meanwhile swollen to 380 million.

President Mbeki’s vision of a revitalised Africa is shared by many African leaders who insist that reform processes must be driven on the basis of an African-derived vision and the institutional needs of African states. Aid donors must learn to support an African agenda rather than dictate one conceived elsewhere.

The Pan-African Conference followed the one which was held in Windhoek in February 2001 … Mr G B D McINTOSH: Mr Chairman, on a point of order: On the rule of relevance, the hon member Abrahams has said one sentence on public administration. He has simply talked about Africa and Nepad and the hon Dlamini-Zuma is not in the House.

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Chairperson, on a point of order: That hon member has just shown how uninformed he is. He does not understand the whole governance and public administration portfolio.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon McIntosh, I was listening carefully to the members’speech. He was relevant and we will allow him to continue. Please continue, hon member.

Mr T ABRAHAMS: Thank you, hon Chair. I think that the hon member should go on and open dry taps again.

South Africa was requested to take leadership and host the conference of May 2003. The incoming chairperson, the dynamic Minister Fraser-Moleketi, referred to the lack of institutional capacity as a drawback to reform and the need to identify specific actions to attain predetermined outcomes. A sound basis for all revitalisation efforts had been decided at the previous conference and what remained was to build on it. She emphasized governance, public administration policy and research.

Prof Najib Zerouali, Minister from the Kingdom of Morocco, declared that the conference was in line with Nepad and Cafrad. The theme focused on institutional capability for African renewal. The objectives were to: develop a common understanding of public sector reform efforts and challenges confronted across the continent; define a long-term agenda for African public service reform; share experiences and to find ways to enhance information and knowledge exchange; identify short-term interventions for capacity development that can be instituted; and to identify priority areas for further research, knowledge and innovation to feed into capacity development. Expert input and open discussions resulted in conclusions being arrived at on several subthemes. Some of them are the current and reform status of African state institutions; knowledge sharing and regional collaboration; priorities for institutional and human development; and sustainable resource mobilisation strategies.

Prof Wiseman Nkuhlu, Secretary of the Steering Committee of Nepad stressed that Africa requires an average growth rate of 7% to sustain its development programmes. It was therefore important to plan in terms of public services but crucial to implement plans. In this regard, the agreement reached at the Stellenbosch conference included a carefully considered set of provisions for monitoring the implementation of its programme of action.

Moreover, it included a formal request that the text of the programme of action be incorporated into Nepad’s detailed programme of action and to the African Union for endorsement. The conference of Ministers should henceforth be held under the auspices of the African Union. By the way, the Peer Review Mechanism will further ensure implementation.

As we speak, the World Economic Forum Africa Summit in Durban is again dealing with a shift in Nepad’s focus to concrete action. In the words of the chairperson:

The United Nations will come to realise that Africans are quite capable of taking collective responsibility for their continent.

[Applause.] The tide has turned in South Africa. Now, Africa’s time has come. I thank you. [Applause.]

Dr U ROOPNARAIN: Hon Chairperson, hon members, I would like to begin my speech by paying tribute to the many public servants who carry out their work with integrity and loyalty in a very trying environment. This persistent and emerging breed of public servants gives us reason to be optimistic. They provide the basis for optimism, hence they embody the values of Batho Pele. For them, service to help people is primarily a calling and not just a career.

The IFP has always supported a public service which is effective, accountable and transparent. We also know that after 1994, the Public Service was brought home. The Public Service became more unified and essentially crawled out of the 1994 quicksand. Regarding this, the IFP acknowledges the role of the Minister. There has been progress, but, coupled with progress, there have been challenges. Serious challenges still remain for the Public Service. Some of the most salient of these are to combat corruption and maladministration, improving service delivery and developing human resources.

We know that this department is a driver of service delivery, and the question that arises is: What is wrong? I would like to start with Samdi. Samdi has been hobbled with inconsistencies and contradictions. Regarding the history of Samdi, it was formed as a demand-driven organisation that aimed to provide training for departments. However, Samdi is ridden with ambiguity. We need to ask: With Samdi’s sizeable budget, does this budget justify its existence? A cursory glance tells one: No, we need to see returns on the state’s interest.

Too often we hear about all the programmes offered by Samdi and Samdi being overbooked. But, we would like to know about the impact of these programmes. How many of these programmes offer strong-level analytical skills, data analysis beyond narrow quantitative applications and people skills? We need to know if Samdi is economically viable and relevant to capacitate managers and employees. Also, with the mushrooming of institutes in capacity development and satellite units of universities, we need to ask whether Samdi is going to compete with the entire education institutes. We also do not have any reports on the exodus of personnel at management level. We need to see this.

The second area I want to talk about is the much-talked-about rightsizing, downsizing, and restructuring or retrenchment. Let me hasten to add that the IFP endorses the merits of a leaner and meaner Public Service as opposed to a bloated bureaucracy. Yet, in this quest for a streamlined, effective and efficient Public Service, the restructuring is not without its costs and casualties. More often than not, this is felt in human terms. Quite frankly, it is employees who have to deal with feelings of uncertainty, anxiety, anger and resentment.

We have to be painfully aware of these repercussions where each employee hopes that they would be able to salvage their job. The IFP would like to caution the Minister that we should be careful when we are trimming the fat, when in fact we could be cutting away the muscle mass.

We all know that to generate long-term sustainable jobs in a globally competitive environment is a distressing problem and blanket restructuring merely feeds the process. So, restructuring is a complex and painful process where each employee hopes that he or she would not be declared a supernumerary.

It can be likened to journeying into uncharted waters - a difficult predicament, indeed. Naturally, there will be numerous ongoing management challenges, such as developing streamlined processes and systems. We must ensure that the posts are matched in both number and level to the service delivery of that organisation.

Hon Minister, I now move on to Sita. Sita, a Government agency, was formed to develop and maintain Government information systems. Yet we too often hear about Sita and shareholders as opposed to stakeholders. Quite frankly, we need to know why many CEOs are leaving Sita. We are visited by new staff who offer us brilliant turnaround strategies and then they are gone - the turnaround with them. This has to change.

Public service is about people and people philosophy. Two qualities are a necessary prerequisite: expertise and being people-centred. There are also two subcategories like honesty, will and commitment. These, I believe, are the ethos of social accountability and service. Public servants need to exhibit these qualities, or else public service is not their calling. I think that, here, the acid test is loyalty and integrity in both the professional and behavioural sense. We need to reward these individuals, either in the form of remuneration or benefits. Remuneration is only the first step.

The process and criteria for recruitment and selection will need to be revisited to attract the right talent into the service. We must introduce individual career and training development road maps to ensure that every public servant will be properly tracked and developed to his or her highest potential. The challenge for all of us is to improve the dignity of the Public Service and the quality of service we provide. The Public Service must not be allowed to become a shelter for people who refuse to serve or those who are in the Public Service for personal gain.

Government recognises that it has a responsibility to create the conditions that are conducive for the provision of quality service delivery. Amongst other things, we must ensure empowerment. This is the challenge that every department is faced with.

The next issue I want to touch on is consultants. Very often, with insufficient in-house expertise, we find an overreliance on consultants. Certainly, this problem plagues every department. Hence, departments have to rely on outsourcing. Quite frankly, these consultants have no practical experience, have never worked in the public sector and hence they work from a purely theoretical paradigm, often taking models from other parts of the world and trying to adapt them to South Africa. So, here again, we need to move away from excessive reliance on consultants and begin training in- house. It will save us money and help build a pool of experts.

However, challenges still remain. We know that the workplace must reflect the demographics of the country in terms of race and gender. This is being done, but a lot more remains to be done. Also, we desperately need to build a career out of the Public Service like in East Asia, where civil servants are obliged to study public administration and pass stringent civil service exams.

I think that this is something we can emulate or else we are faced with the crisis in human capital. We already have a number of unfilled positions. We have managers who are in acting capacity. Hon Minister, this has to change, this creates a great deal of uncertainty and often inadequate commitment to efforts that have long-term implications. Also, posts remain vacant for too long. We need people who will rise to the occasion and respond to the need of the Public Service now.

The next issue is Batho Pele. I spoke about it at length previously. Batho Pele is still a philosophical premise and it needs to become a reality. I think that it needs to be revitalised. Perhaps there should be a mandatory course for every public servant on the principles of Batho Pele. We still hear woes from people standing in long queues, or having to encounter some rude public servant. This is not the principle of putting people first. So, there has been a slow uptake of Batho Pele and this has to change.

Regarding the Public Service Commission, it is mandated by our Constitution. I would like to thank Prof Sangweni, Prof Richard Levin and the commissioners. After spending two weeks in the UK, we all concluded that at the end of the visit we had gained ample knowledge to write a few dissertations on the subject of citizens’ forums. I am not going to venture into that but I just want to say that the IFP fully supports consultation and engagement. We believe that we must have both a listening Government and a responding Government. Hence, citizens’ forums should be rolled out in every province.

I also want to speak about oversight. Our visit to the Free State province helped us as a committee to sharpen our oversight functions. I think oversight is central. I remember that Madam Speaker, in our planning session, likened the role of oversight to that of a coroner. It’s very apt for us as MPs. Here, again, we need to perform our oversight functions on the activities of Sita in terms of the shareholder compact.

Hon Minister, another debate that is coming to the fore is the viability of local government as part of the Public Service. Again, we should not look at this solely in terms of salary disparities but in terms of better service delivery. I think that this should be our port of call.

In closing, I would like to thank the chairperson of the portfolio committee, the hon Gomomo, for always initiating debate and discussion. I would also like to thank the hon Richard Baloyi who is not in the House this afternoon. He always stepped in when the chairperson was unavailable. His impromptu chairing was always appreciated. I should always like to thank the officials from the department who had to respond to our litany of questions. Thank you very much. The IFP supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Mr L J MODISENYANE: Chairperson, signs that the Department of Public Service and Administration is leading the process of transformation from within the Public Service can no more be ignored, even by those who say South Africa is not working. The Public Service Commission and the Portfolio Committee on Public Service and Administration bear witness in this regard. They are respectively tasked to monitor and evaluate the transformation and to play an oversight role. This leaves us with no doubt that this Government is committed to clean and good governance because it is the first time in South African history that the poor and the vulnerable have a word about corruption.

Surveys were conducted and proved that 40% of the subalterns believe that corruption is a serious problem which needs to be addressed, let alone 60% of the business fraternity who viewed it as such. The former President, Dr Nelson Mandela, said that South Africa needs an RDP of the soul - which simply means that there is a need for moral regeneration. There is, indeed, a need for moral leadership to counter corruption.

Under the Lima Anti-corruption Declaration there is a saying that you clean the staircase by starting from the top. Our President, His Excellency Thabo Mbeki, referred to corruption as a cancer. That is a sign that the President wants a clean government. This corruption is noticed mostly among public servants acting in furtherance of personal interests. This does not mean that public servants alone are involved in corruption. It is broader because the givers of bribes are as guilty as the receivers of bribes.

Our government is brave enough to tackle corruption without favour. I don’t remember where a resolution was ever taken to embark on corruption. Public representatives at all three spheres of government must be vigilant because there are numerous tricks to lure them into corrupt practices. Moneymakers plan; they know how to trick the unsuspecting public servants as well as public representatives. The South African Government has embarked on legislative and administrative measures to fight corruption. The constitutional and independent institutions like the Auditor-General and the Public Protector are a good example in this regard.

It is with regret that, of late, the independent institutions are being attacked by the holier-than-thou in this Parliament. Why do people take such bold steps through the media? Has the ANC government closed its doors to bilaterals or to consultation? The answer is definitely no. The doors are wide open. This is mere political opportunism by the opposition. Numerous codes of conduct are in place. All of us know that we are being watched. The office of the Public Protector is there to enforce the codes and we must oblige as lawmakers.

Ha nke ke toboketse taba ena ya bobodu haholoholo mekgahlelong e tlase ya puso. Ke re balehelang mejo e le qabanyang le bana ba bo lona. Mmuso ha o utswetswe, etswe ditjhelete di ntshwa ka ditekanyetso. Ha o tadimile mejo, mme o nahana hore o bohlale, ho tla ba bohloko ha o hlatsiswa mejo eo. Diphepheng di malala-a-laotswe, bakeng la ho lwantsha bobodu. Etswe lefapha le jwalo le teng dikantorong tsa Diphepheng. Ebang le sa mamele, mohana a jwetswa o bonwa ka madi hloohong. Ka hoo, phemang bobodu ka hohle-hohle. (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)

[Let me emphasise this corruption phenomenon, especially at the lower levels of government. I would like to encourage you to stay away from benefits that result in friction amongst you. No one can successfully steal from the government, especially because moneys are allocated according to budgets.

If you are to enrich yourself, thinking that you are clever, you will regret it when you have to bring back whatever you have stolen. The Scorpions are always ready to fight corruption. There is such a department in the Scorpion’s offices. If you don’t listen, the one who doesn’t listen to advice, is noticeable by blood on his or her head. Therefore, abstain from corruption as much as possible.]

Important events took place, since 1994, as a build-up towards fighting corruption: the moral summit in October 1998 where religious and other leaders adopted a pledge of ubuntu; the Public Sector Anti-corruption Conference in November 1998 where a plan of action to prevent corruption was adopted; and the National Anti-corruption Summit in April 1999 where a resolution setting out elements of a national plan to control and prevent corruption was taken. We were honoured by attending the launch of the anti- corruption forum in June 2001. What we can say to the Public Service Commission is: Well done!

Ek is verplig om tot hierdie slotsom te kom, agb lede, dat hierdie Regering alles in sy vermoëns doen om korrupsie te bekamp. Dié wat daarom agterdog koester, behoort op die ashoop van die geskiedenis. [Applous.] Ons kan diegene wat deur ouderdom beïnvloed word, net jammer kry. Daar is ‘n Afrikaanse gedig wat sê: (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[I am compelled to come to the conclusion, hon members, that this Government is doing everything in its power to fight corruption. Those people who harbour suspicion therefore belong on the scrap-heap of history. [Applause.] We can only feel sorry for those people who are influenced by age. There is an Afrikaans poem that reads:]

As ouderdom wat alles breek, sy houvas op my kry; dan gaan ek na die Hantam waar ek hoort.

Owing to the fact that corruption is a global problem, the South African Government entered into partnership with the United Nations Office against Drugs and Crime. Together, they compiled the Country Corruption Assessment Report. The main findings of the report are, to note but a few, that there is express political will in South Africa to address corruption; that South Africa contributes a lot to anticorruption efforts, both regionally and internationally; that the anticorruption forum be strengthened; and that South Africa belongs to countries in the middle position regarding its vulnerability to corruption. We urge all members here to support the message of no tolerance and no exemptions. That is how we will further build confidence in our Government.

In the light of al the stated facts, I conclude by saying that, indeed, the tide has turned. It is therefore necessary that we support this budget. Thank you [Applause].

Mr A Z A VAN JAARSVELD: Hon Chair, one of the greatest military strategists ever, General Carl von Clausewitz, once said, and I quote:

… out of a thousand men who are remarkable - some for mind, others for boldness or strength of will - perhaps not one will combine in himself all the qualities which are required to raise a man above mediocrity in the career of a general.

In dieselfde trant is dit ook so dat ‘n koor uit baie individuele stemme bestaan wat saam moet sing om uit die verskeidenheid van stemme die rykste, sterkste klanke voort te kan bring. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.) [In the same vein it is also true that a choir consists of many individual voices that have to sing together to be able to produce the richest, strongest sounds from the variety of voices.]

In an attempt to achieve exactly this goal, and with the knowledge that no one person or organisation has the sole ability to produce the perfect general, the Department of Public Service and Administration has set as its aim to lead the modernisation of the Public Service by assisting Government departments with implementing their management policies, systems and structural solutions, within a generally applicable framework of norms and standards in order to improve service delivery.

It is only the ignorant and the foolish, and of course the DA, who believe that this process of transformation and restructuring of the Public Service could occur with the waving of a magic wand. The restructuring and transformation of the Public Service is a complex process which forms an integral part of the greater process of transforming a once-divided country which had imbalances in almost every sphere of its society. [Interjections.]

It remains a great challenge to transform the South Africa of yesterday from a group with dissonant voices into a choir that brings forth a rich, varied, but harmonious symphony of sound. [Interjections.] I believe that the time has come for the true African nationalists of this country to come together in order to work tirelessly towards the South Africa of tomorrow that all of us could be proud of. [Interjections.]

The New NP has chosen to embrace the spirit of a new South Africanism and to join the hands of all communities in the pursuit of peace, prosperity and harmony amongst the diverse cultures, races and religions that make up this dynamic country of ours. [Applause.] The New NP and the ANC have undertaken to work together to create a future of hope for all of us, strengthen the political centre of South African politics, and to ensure that the future we deliver jointly will be experienced as an exciting future by each and every South African - be they black, white, coloured or Indian. [Applause.]

The minority communities in particular have for the first time been confronted with the stark choice between confrontational opposition, with no hope of assuming power where the polarising style can only lead to further isolation and marginalisation from the main stream of South African society, or joining the New NP in taking hands with minorities and the majority alike.

Die Nuwe Nasionale Party-ondersteuners wil hê dat hulle stemme in die regering gehoor moet word en die samewerkingsooreenkoms met die ANC is die enigste manier om dit te doen. [Applous.] [Tussenwerpsels.]

Dit is nodig om aan te toon wat hierdie ooreenkoms behels, agb Voorsitter, hierdie ooreenkoms wat ingestel is om ware Suid-Afrikaners saam te snoer wat wil bou aan ‘n Suid-Afrika van hoop vir die toekoms. Voorsitter, in ons soeke na ‘n beter Suid-Afrika, het beide hierdie organisasies die volgende verklaar: (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The New National Party supporters want their voices to be heard in the Government, and the co-operation agreement with the ANC is the only way in which to do this. [Applause.] [Interjections.]

It is necessary to indicate what this agreement includes, hon Chairperson, this agreement which was established to unite true South Africans who want to build a South Africa of hope for the future.

Chairperson, in our quest for a better South Africa both these organisations stated the following:]

The New NP and the ANC commit ourselves to a co-operation based on a shared commitment to the realisation of the values and principles reflected in the preamble of the South African Constitution. The New NP and the ANC therefore commit ourselves through co-operation to: recognise the injustices of our country’s past; honour those who suffered for justice and freedom in our land; respect those who have worked to build and develop our country; affirm that South Africa belongs to all who live in it - united in our diversity; heal the divisions of the past and establish a society based on democratic values, social justice and fundamental human rights; improve the quality of life of all citizens and free the potential of each person in this country; and build a united democratic South Africa able to take its rightful place as a sovereign state in the family of nations. [Applause.]

The strategic objectives that will underpin the relationship between the New NP and the ANC will include: building a national consensus founded on true South African partriotism as a critical instrument in the effort to deracialise our society; developing a unity of purpose to confront the great challenges of our country, including, amongst other things, HIV/Aids, crime, poverty, unemployment and homelessness; striving to foster reconciliation and good intercommunity relations to achieve a truly nonracial, nonsexist South African society so that, together, we can address the legacy of the past; and finally, recognising that South Africa is an African country within the African continent, and that we have an important role to play in mobilising extensively the relevant human and material resources necessary for the development of both our country and our continent. [Interjections.]

Voorsitter, in die praktyk beteken dit dat elke parlementslid van die Nuwe Nasionale Party sy of haar rol as politieke opsiener so sal uitoefen dat dit sal bydra tot die geordende transformasie van elke staatsdepartement. In hierdie opsig onderskryf ons dan ook die rol wat die staatsdienskommissie, Sita en Samdi speel om ‘n korps van staatsamptenare te ontwikkel wat as hoogste prioriteit het, effektiewe dienslewering aan elke Suid-Afrikaner.

Ek wil my graag in hierdie debat, Voorsitter, toespits op die staatsdienskommissie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, in practice it means that every member of Parliament of the New National Party will exercise his or her role as political overseer in such a way that it will contribute to the ordered transformation of every government department. In this regard we support the role that the Public Service Commission, Sita and Samdi play to develop a corps of civil servants whose highest priority is effective service delivery to every South African.

In this debate, Chairperson, I would like to focus on the Public Service Commission.]

Arising from the forces of transformation, the Public Service Commission is now an independent and impartial body which was created to enhance excellence in governance within the Public Service by promoting a professional and ethical environment; and adding value to the public administration that is accountable, equitable, efficient, effective, corruption-free and responsive to the needs of the people.

It is important to take note of some of the more significant achievements of the Public Service Commission over the past few years. Firstly, an investigation was conducted to determine sick leave trends in the Public Service. Coming out of this investigation was a recommendation for improving the sick leave information that is now kept on Persal.

Secondly, with regard to anticorruption and ethics achievements, the Public Service Commission undertook a national ethics survey in conjunction with KPMG and Transparency South Africa. The survey revealed the need for an ethics overhaul of major public institutions throughout the country. It also showed positive trends in that most of the organisations that were surveyed had codes of conduct, whistle-blower protection, documented original values and principles, and confidential reporting mechanisms.

Thirdly, in order to promote improvement and transformation in service delivery, the Public Service undertook a Citizen Satisfaction Survey. The survey targeted all types of users of specified services and departments, and these included both internal and external users. Fourthly, the commission, in collaboration with the parliamentary portfolio committee, has developed a methodology of conducting citizen’s forums. The objectives of these forums are to evaluate the delivery of particular services throughout the country and to facilitate the active involvement of people affected by Government programmes in the service delivery improvement process.

With regard to the future, the Public Service Commission has put in place certain mechanisms that allow for the immediate monitoring of Government policies and programmes. Amongst these are: ensuring that the reporting requirements of all departments are consistent; allowing for cross-sectoral comparisons; and that, within the area of reporting, the Public Services Commission requires that reporting goes beyond simple numbers and begins to focus on key Government priority areas.

A further area relates to the performance agreements of heads of departments and directors-general. The purpose of this is to align all aspects of Government performance, from the macro to the micro levels, and thus focus the efforts of Government in a very direct and deliberate manner.

The Public Service Commission is putting in place a transversal monitoring and evaluation system. This would allow the Public Service Commission to collect key information around Government performance on a proactive basis. Once this system is in place, South Africa will be in line with other established democracies which have monitoring and evaluation as mandatory practices.

Voorsitter, die wyse waarop die staatsdienskommissie homself van sy taak kwyt, is ‘n voorbeeld van die toegewydheid wat daar heers onder die bekwame leiding van die Minister asook die ander afdelings van die staatsdiens. [Tussenwerpsels.]

In die komplekse proses om die staatsdiens te omvorm, gaan daar ook noodwendig foute gemaak word. Die uitdaging lê nie daarin om, soos die DA, net kritiek te wil lewer nie, maar lê eerder daarin om die nodige regstellings en aanpassings te maak sodat elke Suid-Afrikaner die voordeel sal geniet van ‘n staatsdiens wat werklik die belange van alle Suid- Afrikaners sal dien.

Ons glo dat ons nog nie daar is waar ons wil wees nie. Die Nuwe Nasionale Party en sy ondersteuners het ‘n belang daarby dat die nuwe Suid-Afrika sal werk, en daarom wil ons help.

Die Nuwe Nasionale Party steun hierdie begrotingspos. Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, the way in which the Public Service Commission performs its task is an example of the dedication prevailing under the able leadership of the Minister, as well as the other sectors of the public service. [Interjections.]

In the complex process of transforming the Public Service, mistakes will also necessarily be made. The challenge is not merely wanting to criticise, as is the case with the DA, but rather to effect the necessary rectifications and adjustments so that every South African will enjoy the privilege of a Public Service which will really serve the interests of all South Africans.

We believe that we have not yet reached the point where we want to be. The New National Party and its supporters have an interest in having the new South Africa work, and for this reason we want to help.

The New National Party supports this Vote.]

Ms M P MENTOR: Chairperson, firstly I would like to remember the late Comrade Eph Mogale whom we buried on Sunday. He was a gallant fighter, a hero of our struggle and a gentle giant who was humble and humorous. He was a great commissar and a great instructor. He was a political well and fountain from which the militant youth of our country drank, alongside the generation of 1976 to date. His spirit will live forever. I would like to call upon those who had contact with him, especially the Nchabeleng foundation to collect his poetry in order to ensure that it is published and that the proceeds and every cent go to his children and wife.

I want to start by paraphrasing Kwame Nkrumah in Africa Must Unite, 1961. The reason why I don’t quote him is because there is a concept of Africanisation that he used and which I have replaced with ``democratic’’. Regarding public service, he said that the finest place we can conceive for our country will never leave the blueprint stage unless we have first-class civil servants whose outlook is attuned to our democratic aspirations and upon whose loyalty we can depend unquestioningly. So their loyalty should not be questioned in terms of this democracy and what we want to achieve as a nation. I think this is still relevant today.

If we say that the Public Service should assist to push back the frontiers of poverty, I think that the manner in which we train and develop public servants must change. We must not change them to be academic giants and social dwarfs. We must give them skills and make them people-orientated. We must look into ways of training them. While they train and learn, they must work and earn at the same time.

Therefore, we must accelerate the process of learnerships just in the same way as the Department of Health in their human resource strategy document advocates a mid-level health worker who as a health worker has all the necessary skills to deal with health problems across the board and who can be sent anywhere, including the rural areas, to perform health duties without supervision in the absence of a doctor and a supervising sister, etc. I think that is the direction that we must take if we say we need to use the Public Service to alleviate poverty and push back its frontiers.

We said we will build a democratic, nonracial, nonsexist and united South Africa that is prosperous. We said that our state will be developmental. If it is developmental it should be the basic provider of especially basic services - the main provider. Therefore, if it is to be the main provider of services, it must be inadvertently the main employer. The human resources in Public Service should be a resource that is geared towards obtaining this intention of building this democratic nonracial, nonsexist and united South Africa that is prosperous and achieves this developmental state that is people-orientated and people-driven.

If the training that we give public servants and the development that we take them through do not change them at the end of the day and make them agents for change and for building a democratic South Africa, we are failing in our duties. The Minister took us through what we inherited when we went into office in 1994. I would like to just remind you that we inherited a low skills base which could not be measured and accounted for by anyone, including those from whom we took power.

There were no national norms and standards, management, supervision, work ethic or ethos; negative attitudes prevailed and there was low morale; there was no capacity to deliver to the people, and no intention to deliver to them, or any will. There was no transparency and accountability, and therefore there was a lot of concealed corruption. There was no mechanism for monitoring work, evaluating it or for reviewing it. There was no consultation with the people for whom service was supposed to be meant. There was a heavy reliance on consultants, etc.

The public servants then did not have any ability to do needs analyses with the people. They did not know how to plan strategically. They knew nothing about objectives and goals. They knew nothing about indicators for service delivery - both qualitative and quantitative indicators. There was nothing about outputs and outcomes. There was no upward mobility or career paths for employees in the Public Service. There were no proper job descriptions and, therefore, there was no focus towards work. There was a totally wrong mindset. The main role of public servants was to write letters, take minutes, send memorandums and knock off at 4 pm. That was the order of the day. The very few that had computers played card games on the computers most of the time because many of them were not computer literate. We would think that they were working when they sat behind those screens.

There were no black people in the meaningful echelons of Public Service. There were no women or people with disabilities. There was no productivity. People were not the centre for what they were doing. We have turned the tide - we have turned the situation around. We have put into place policies that the chairperson stated. But, in putting them into place, we did it with the same public servants who were going to be regulated by those policies. We didn’t do it for them. They participated in the formulation of the Public Service Act, White Papers, etc.

We changed the workplace. We made it friendly to them. We made it humane and and human-rights based. We made sure that the human rights setting at the workplace flowed to service and people, and that it touched on the people and should be the approach to doing work. We fast-tracked women - although this process is very slow through the echelons of the Public Service. We fast-tracked people with disabilities and this is extremely slow and must be improved.

We established workplace fora where employees can come together, irrespective of which trade union they belong to, to discuss their problems away from the bargaining chambers, and also to plan for working with people and for the people. We put into place a totally new recruitment approach to selection … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Adv Z L MADASA: Chairperson, the acid test for whether the ANC-led Government is doing well or not is the state of service delivery by the departments. To say service delivery at the moment, in some respects, is unsatisfactory is to understate the situation. I am still waiting - and this is not an attack on you, Shenge - I am still waiting for my temporary ID which is supposed to take two weeks. I applied for it here in Cape Town. I was supposed to receive it at the end of February but I am still waiting. Now you can guess how long is it going to take me to get a permanent one.

The obsolete assertion that the DPSA makes policy and is not responsible for service delivery has long been defeated by our demand, as people’s representatives, that time for policy implementation has come. If, for example, the entire Public Service has a new culture of Batho Pele - which is still wanting at the moment - and if that service culture has improved then there is service delivery. Managers need to jettison urgently this grandiloquent twaddle that there is a distinction between policy-making and service delivery.

The other issue I want to talk about is the PFMA. Treasury, according to this Act, presumes that Government services are completely decentralised, but this is not necessarily the case. This dilemma provides some managers with excuses as to who should do what and who is responsible for what. In this way they escape being accountable. This department has a responsibility to ensure that structures catch up with the law.

Lastly, in my extremely circumscribed time, I would like to raise what seems to be another hindrance to service delivery, namely, the issue of concurrent powers between the national level of Government and provinces. People are not interested in whether it is the MEC or the national Director- General who is responsible, for example, with regard to the registration of a company. All that they want is to register a company.

Co-operative government in action ought to be the guiding policy at all Government levels in order to hasten service delivery. We in the ACDP appeal to all public servants to be what they should be, servants of the people irrespective of the level or tier at which they are. Do what you are employed to do - serve the people. However, on the balance, the Ministry has improved. Therefore, the ACDP will vote for the budget. Thank you. [Applause.] Mme M A SEECO: Motlotlegi Modulasetilo, bagaetsho ba ba tlotlegang, ke leboga komiti ya bodiredi setshaba le tsamaiso go re kgontsha go tsamaya mo diporofenseng go inosa ka nkgo go bona ``Batho Pele’’ e le mo tirisong. UCDP e amogela Tekanyetsokabo e.

Fa keletso e ne e le pitse, UCDP e ka bo e palama gore Tekanyetsokabo e direle batho, e tlhabolole le go tokafatsa matshelo a batho ba gaetsho. Re phophotha badiredipuso legetla. Ka mo mafelong a mangwe ga go tlhole go na le mela e meleele ya batho ba letile ditirelo jaaka kwa Bokone Bophirima.

E kete mafelo a bodiredi le a badiredipuso a ka tokafadiwa. Ba bangwe ba direla mo mafelong a a tlhomolang pelo mme se se botlhokwa ke gore ba itshokile, ba dira ba sa kgaotse, ba itse gore gaabo motho go thebe phatswa, e bile kgabutle ga a ke a feta fa gaabo a re go tlala. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs M A SEECO: Hon Chairperson and hon members, I would like to thank the Public Service Commission and its administration for allowing us to visit the provinces to see for ourselves how the policy of Batho Pele works. The UCDP supports this budget.

If wishes were horses, the UCDP would be going for a ride so that this budget should work for the people and improve their lives. We compliment the public servants. In some areas, such as the North West province, there are no longer long queues of people waiting for services.

Maybe places of service delivery and those of public servants should be improved. Some work in unbearable conditions, but what is important is that they persevere; they work nonstop. They know that there is no place like home, and that no matter what the conditions at one’s home may be like, it remains one’s home.]

The Department received an increase of 8,31% on the Main Appropriation of 2002-03. Programme 1, which is Administration, provides policy and strategic leadership to the Public Service to enhance its ability to deliver on Government’s priorities and objectives. This programme increases nominally by 5,84% in this financial year. The question remains whether the nominal increase is sufficient to cover the additional personnel costs, as well as operational costs for this programme.

The aim of the department is to lead the modernisation of the Public Service. It does so by assisting Government departments to implement their management policies, systems and solutions within a national framework of norms and standards so as to improve service delivery. Spearheading the quest for a modern Public Service is Batho Pele which aims to enhance the quality and accessibility of Government’s services by improving efficiency and accountability to the recipients of public goods and services.

The competency framework for senior managers has been introduced with a view to improving the quality of managers and professionals employed in the Public Service. What strategies is the department implementing to ensure that women and persons with disabilities are employed in the department in the middle and senior management levels? Let this budget create a conducive working environment for public servants to deliver services effectively.

Another area of focus is the possible impact of HIV/Aids pandemic … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr L M KGWELE: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, I rise on behalf of the ANC to support the Public Service and Administration Budget Vote No 10; Vote No 11; and Vote No 12.

The Cuban revolutionary, Jose Marti, as if referring to our struggle and national democratic revolution said:

Like stones rolling down hills, fair ideas reach their objectives despite all obstacles and barriers. It may be possible to speed or hinder them, but impossible to stop them.

Through our transformation process we have set in motion the process of building a capable, ethical Public Service that can attract and retain talented employees, mobilise cutting-edge technologies, knowledge and skills, and continue to learn and improve on an ongoing basis.

As the ANC, we recognise the significant contribution that training and education make as part of a broader strategy for human resource development to the efficiency, effectiveness, accountability, responsiveness and representivity in the Public Service. We note that Samdi has, within its mandate and limited resources, helped to improve the skills and competency levels of workers and managers to carry out their jobs effectively in pursuit of the new vision and mission of the Public Service.

The challenge remains in assisting public servants in developing a better understanding of the needs of the communities that they serve, as well as a capacity to respond to these needs. We believe that the partnership that Samdi has formed with the Public Service Education and Training Authority should also intensify skills and capacity development and build a better co- ordination of human resource development initiatives in the Public Service.

The Integrated Management Development Programme which is aimed at fostering leadership within the Public Service, more especially at middle and emerging manager levels, addresses the concerns that we had regarding human resource management and development at lower levels than the senior management service.

The collaborative effort between Samdi and the Department of Social Development in the past financial year saw the institute training 1 101 frontline staff from all nine provinces in the administration of social grants. As the ANC we hope that this will assist the Department of Social Development to build capacity in project management and administration of social grants.

After this intervention, we support the statement by the Minister of Social Development in which he urged the provincial government of the Eastern Cape to take drastic measures against Cash Paymaster Services for their gross and flagrant violation of service-level agreement and human rights with regards to payments of pensions in the eastern part of the Eastern Cape. Only serious and drastic punitive action in defence of the poorest of the poor and our aged will send a clear message to companies involved in social security payments to deliver or quit.

In response to the need raised to continue to improve the capacity of the Police Service in order to discharge its crime prevention and combating responsibilities, Samdi trained 2 593 SAPS officials. The institute’s interventions were also extended to Correctional Services and NIA where training on project management as well as presentation and facilitation were offered. Other critical training also offered was management in HIV/Aids in the workplace. Domestic violence training was also offered to 425 SAPS officials to better address and deal with cases of domestic violence. SAPS detectives were also trained on mentorship programmes to prepare them to fast-track orientation of the new officials.

As the ANC, we commend Samdi for taking seriously the challenge of mainstreaming gender in the Public Service through fast-tracking training and development of women in the Public Service. As a means of ensuring that the training that has been conducted achieves the outcomes of improving service delivery, Samdi has developed a service delivery improvement handbook that makes available knowledge, tools and practical implementation strategies for transformation and improvement of Public Service delivery.

The ANC recognises that technology forms an integral part of delivering services to the public. We therefore support the determination of Government to become a modern organisation by seizing the opportunities that result from technological advances through the initiation of the South African Government Online - a single electronic gateway for facilitating access to all information about services provided by the Government.

The State Information Technology Agency has embarked on a whole-of- Government IT procurement policy which recognises that the Government is the biggest consumer of IT goods and services in the South African market. For this reason, and in line with the Sita Act, the policy seeks to ensure that Government gets value for money out of its IT procurement. Policy objectives include reduced costs of doing business, better industry performance with emphasis on substantial regional development, socially responsible business practices, and the promotion of black economic empowerment.

The framework of this procurement policy encourages the IT industry to become strategically focused and to pursue better workplace practices. It costs the industry less to do business with Government as Sita has simplified tendering and contracting procedures, adopted electronic commerce more widely and works in partnership with service providers.

We support the Sita seat management model as its design addresses the issue of BEE, the development of SMMEs and regional economic development. The model presents opportunities for SMMEs and BEE organisations to participate in the economy by configuration and staging of the desktop, maintenance of desktop computing in the public sector, support for the desktop computing environment, and delivery of desktop computing equipment.

The model also forces regional economical development by demanding that the upkeep of seats within the public sector be performed within a 50-km radius of each public office where the technology is deployed. This, in essence, implies that vendors in Gauteng cannot provide services for Government offices in Northern Cape, Limpopo and so on. This also means that vendors have to use SMMEs due to the fact that most vendors only have offices in large metropolitan areas. We congratulate Sita and the hon Minister for giving practical meaning to that seminal revolutionary compass, the Freedom Charter, by ensuring that the people share the wealth of the country.

The youth internship programmes in information technology that Sita has launched in partnership with the Department of Public Service and Administration, the Public Service Education and Training Authority, and the Umsobomvu Fund aims to increase the level of knowledge and IT skills nationally, improve service delivery by Government departments, and alleviate the high levels of unemployment amongst South African youth by providing opportunities for them. We therefore welcome the investment of R34 million by Sita and R600 000 by the Umsobomvu Fund towards this venture.

Indeed the tide has turned. We call on our youth to seize the opportunities of democracy to push back the frontiers of poverty. In partnership with our people, the private sector, public sector unions, workers and youth, the army of reconstruction and development is unstoppable.

Mayihlom’ ihlasele! [Let us prepare for action.] Victory is certain. Ke a leboga. [I thank you.]

Mr B MTHEMBU: Chairperson, hon members, as we approach the tenth anniversary of a democratic dispensation that was ushered in in 1994, it is opportune to ask the question: To what extent has the ongoing agenda of the public sector transformation succeeded in bringing about a better life for all through service delivery for all? Section 195 of our Constitution provides for a progressive realisation of a developmental state when it says: ``Public Service and Administration must be development-oriented.’’

We commend the founding fathers and mothers of our Constitution who opted for a developmental state. This option was taken within the global, political and economic context in which the dominant, neoliberal tendencies were prescribing a minimalist role for the state as well as decentralisation of power which, in essence, means that the state should abdicate power.

Our historical context then and now dictated that that was a correct option. South Africa as a postapartheid colonial state, with massive inequality and backlogs in the provision of social services such as housing; education; health; and welfare of the aged, young and disabled, cannot afford to leave the development of our people in the hands of the invisible hand of the market forces alone. The institutionalisation of a developmental state is no mean achievement. It has ensured that the state, through its bureaucracy, the Public Service, plays a central role in driving development. It is only a developmental state that can ensure a better life for all through a public service delivery for all.

Although we hold a view that the state should play a central role in the development process, we also believe that this should be in partnership with the private sector and civil society as manifested by the Vukuzenzele, Masakhane, Letsema and Tirisano campaigns, as well as the recent Growth and Development Summit. The Public Service inherited by the democratic Government in 1994 was constructed primarily to promote and defend the social and economic system of apartheid and was geared to serving the material needs and the interests of the minority.

The apartheid bureaucracy was characterised by rigid, racial and ethnic segregation; fragmentation, duplication and waste; and an outdated management culture. It was opaque, highly centralised and control-oriented. A new machinery and a new culture of governance had, therefore, to be constructed. To this end, the democratic Government enacted the Public Service Act that sought to create a new unified Public Service.

Today we can proudly say: A proudly South African Public Service for all the people of South Africa. The creation of a single, unified Public Service delivery was not a sufficient condition for improved service delivery for all. It was also necessary to transform the Public Service, in an accountable manner, from an instrument of control and domination to an enabling agency which serves and empowers in an accountable manner. To this end, the democratic Government adopted the White Paper on Transformation of the Public Service, in 1996. Its vision stated that:

It is committed to continually improving the lives of the people of South Africa by a transformed Public Service which is representative, coherent, transparent, efficient, accountable and responsive to all the needs of our people.

Towards the realisation of this vision, the democratic Government identified eight priorities for reform. These priorities include among others: transforming the Public Service to meet basic needs and redress past imbalances; institution building and management reforms; and representativeness and affirmative action.

Following the adoption of the White Paper on Transformation of the Public Service, the democratic Government established a dedicated department for Public Service, namely, the Department of Public Service and Administration. This was a significant milestone in the ongoing agenda of the Public Service transformation. That was a first time in the history of this country that we had a dedicated department for public service delivery and administration.

In the past, we had a commission for administration which was highly centralised, opaque, secretive and unaccountable. It’s core business was regulation and control. Today the notion of public service delivery has been institutionalised and is being taken for granted. It has become the grammar of the democratic society.

Significant progress has been recorded towards the realisation of a fully representative service as set out in the White Paper on Affirmative Action in the Public Service. The increase in the representivity of those who were excluded on the basis of race, colour, gender and disability has enriched the pool of diverse skills and talents available to the Public Service and thereby enhanced the delivery of services. The increase in the number of women at decision-making levels has also led to a greater sensitisation of the workplace to gender issues, and it has made the workplace more responsive to delivery regarding women.

The creation of a diversified management culture also provides a climate in the public sector conducive to creative tension, which is a necessary condition for innovation and organisational renewal and thereby effective service delivery. The Public Service Management Framework which came into effect in 1999 was a significant milestone in the ongoing administrative reforms. It replaced the outdated, highly centralised, unaccountable and rule-based public administration which was rigid.

With regard to whether the Public Service should be centralised or decentralised, as the forces of neoliberalism were suggesting that we must decentralise, we have opted for both, that is centralised decentralisation. These enables the centre to have power but should also delegate so that there is complementary work.

In conclusion, as my time has expired, given that today we have a single, unified Public Service; given that a dedicated Department of Public Service and Administration has been established; given that significant progress has been made towards representivity; the Public Service has been transformed for better service for all. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr M WATERS: Deputy Chair, the hon Van Jaarsveld spent most of his time during his speech attacking the DA and justifying his party’s betrayal of their voters. I think that it is a clear reflection of their commitment and their contribution to the national Government. They have nothing to say.

Despite Government being the biggest single employer in the country, the Minister failed to mention HIV/Aids in her 40-minute speech. This shows a lack of commitment to combating the pandemic and a blatant dereliction of duty, as far as I am concerned. Everyone knows that HIV/Aids is having a catastrophic impact in the Public Service which is negatively affecting service delivery. In fact, the department’s own study, which I have in my hand, reveals that by 2012, 250 000 public servants would have died from Aids.

In the face of such a looming disaster, one would expect this department to have produced detailed information about exactly what strategies it could follow to reduce the impact of HIV/Aids by providing treatment for its employees, and to have let the Minister come here today to tell us about it in the budget speech. But, to my best knowledge, it has not been done.

I have asked the hon Minister in this House on previous occasions whether a cost analysis has been conducted in order to determine whether it is cheaper to treat people by providing antiretrovirals or simply by not providing any at all. When doing the calculations, both direct and indirect costs must be borne in mind. Direct costs include claims on medical and pension funds. Indirect costs include the loss of productivity, absenteeism; the cost of replacing individuals - including selection, training and induction; the cost of treating opportunistic infections; the cost of children losing a parent or parents; and the cost to the state of looking after orphans.

In the absence of this information the DA has done its own work. We have done an actuarial study into only the direct costs to the state in terms of ill health and death benefits amongst one crucial sector of the Public Service - teachers. We then compared it to the cost of providing antiretrovirals to these teachers. The results show that for every day that the department fails to implement an antiretroviral treatment programme, it is costing the state more money than it would have if antiretrovirals had been provided.

The average cost of providing high quality, triple therapy for the lifetime of an HIV-positive person is R160 000. This figure does not take into account the inevitable decline in drug prices over the next few years and the fact that the state, through pure economics of scale, could negotiate sharply reduced prices.

The DA has calculated that, on average, across the various salary grades, years of service and the age of onset of illness, a teacher who retires on the grounds of ill health and subsequently dies will receive a payout of R177 223. For a teacher who dies in service the payout would be R181 186.

The Department of Education employs 392 061 teachers of whom, according to this report, the Government’s own, approximately 18% or 70 000 are currently HIV-positive. It becomes very clear then that the cost of providing antiretroviral therapy vastly outweighs the benefits of ignoring the problem. It must be remembered that the costs are purely those that would be incurred directly to the state and that we did not include the indirect costs.

The facts speak for themselves. In fact, the department’s own report clearly states and I quote:

A number of recommendations and goals which should be supported and strengthened through strategic responses in this impact study include the provision of adequate treatment, and a political commitment from Government.

We don’t need another report to confirm what the levels of HIV infections are among teachers. We already know. Why not implement the findings of this report in full? Don’t only concentrate on prevention and education, which we all agree are vitally important, but also provide life-saving treatment: antiretrovirals. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr R J B MOHLALA: Motlhomphegi Motlatsa-Modulasetulo, thakadu ge e tennwe ke molete e o tsena ka sa nthago, e nagana gore molete woo ke o moswa. [Disego.] [Hon Deputy Chairperson, when a person is used to something, they use a different approach, thinking it will suddenly become new. [Laughter.]]

We have been here for the better part of the afternoon listening to different speakers relate to this Budget Vote. I want to indicate, at the start, that as the ANC we support the three Budget Votes. However, something that is very alarming - which makes me happy but which I regret at the same time - is that I wish when Government decided on the national lottery they should have decided that the DA should become the prize. I would have been a millionaire today. That is because they are so predictable that I knew exactly what Mike Waters was going to say. He can’t go beyond the subject that he has discussed. But, if we are going to dwell much on that, we will not benefit at all.

I want to mention a few things. But, let me start off by giving a thorough warning to the DA: Never ever rub bottoms with a porcupine! You know what will happen. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

When the Portfolio Committee on the Public Service and Administration made its provincial visits, we visited three provinces, namely Gauteng, North West and the Western Cape. This is what we found, and this is what we want to put before Parliament today.

In Gauteng province, the Premier’s Office has a co-ordinating structure which includes mayors of different councils. This structure is aimed at ensuring better service delivery in order to avoid duplications between the different spheres, that is, between the provincial and local government as these are delivery spheres. We therefore as a committee wish to recommend that an audit be performed to determine whether all premiers’ offices have a co-ordinating structure of this nature. In the event that this is not found to be the case, we would therefore strongly suggest that such a structure be formed. And, it must be formed with the same or broad mandates as per prevailing provincial conditions.

The other thing that we noticed was that, in the spirit of Batho Pele, it is unacceptable to see places of service delivery such as hospitals dilapidated. Such was the case with Chris Hani-Baragwanath Hospital. But, of course, the good news is that, in her budget speech, the MEC of Health in Gauteng has indicated that her department has budgeted no less than R7 million for the next five years to ensure that they add value to the Chris Hani-Baragwanath Hospital and give it a facelift. This needs to be commended.

In our view, the challenges that are faced by the Department of Health in provinces such as North West are things that are so mechanical that they can be corrected very speedily. Let me indicate what I mean by this. Eighty percent of the workforce there is made up of women, but top management is 90% male. Surely such a situation cannot be left alone without being changed.

Regarding the Department of Home Affairs - Shenge, Mntwana wakwaPhindangene [Prince of Phindangene] - some of the things that are happening in those offices leave much to be desired. We went to the Free State. When we got in we found that the place was packed and there was no movement. There was only one section working on that particular day, and that was the fingerprinting section. The other sections were not working.

Upon enquiry - I enquired by myself what the problem could be - they indicated to me that the problem was nothing else but computers which were off-line. I asked: How did you assist people in the past, before there were these computers? Can't you do what you have been doing manually?'' I said that people want service and that when a person goes for a service sometimes such a person does not even understand the nitty-gritty of the service. The easiest way to deal with that matter was to take particulars of those people and leave them with these simple words:Would you please kindly come back next week?’’ By that time you would have your house in order. I asked them: Do you mean that there is only one person in this office who specialises in taking fingerprints?'' I realised that each and every one had this stamp that they use for fingerprinting. I said to them: Go and assist those people.’’ In less than 30 minutes there was no queue.

So, we need innovative skills to be instilled within the Public Service. I use that as an example and not as a matter of rule, Shenge. But, when we sit here, we get to a situation … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order!

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Chairperson, I would like to thank the hon member for drawing my attention to this matter. But, as hon members know, during my Budget Vote speech I have constantly spoken about the underfunding of my department and the fact that more than 1 000 posts have not been filled in my department. Therefore, the scrounging that he saw is a result of underfunding in my department.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you. Hon member, you may carry on.

Mr R J B MOHLALA: Point taken. When we talk about these things we talk about transformation of the Public Service. It was not uncommon in the past to get a department that had employed five people to drive one tractor every day for seven days. How they managed to do that is something that we still have to find out. How do you get five people to sit on a tractor and drive it for the whole day for seven days?

Having inherited such a system, we have done wonderfully well to be where we are today. You know, people like to use words the way they want to use them. When we say rightsizing'' anddownsizing’’, they say: ``Right is correct, and down is down - we go down. So, it means we just have to take people out.’’ It’s not like that. It’s just checking and auditing so as to establish where do you need most people.

However, the biggest challenge is retention of skilled personnel in the Public Service. There is a flight of teachers, nurses and doctors. Someone might say brain drainage is not necessarily negative because when those people come back they will come with skills that they can use in our country. So, in a way, these are things that we need to look at. There is no way that we can leave some of these things unchallenged.

Ka Sepedi re re: Modulathoko ipoloke gare go dula dikokotla. [In Sepedi we say: If you can’t take the heat, stay out.]

If you can’t take the heat, stay out. [Laughter.]

Hon Ntuli, you were so nice and cosy when you came here. But, as I said at the beginning: Never ever rub bottoms with a porcupine. [Laughter.] By virtue of you being a member of the DA, you can’t talk sense. [Laughter.] The minute you start talking sense is the minute I must be very, very suspicious. [Laughter.] There is something that you might be hiding, and I’m still going to find out what that is. [Laughter.] You said that the Minister threw a big net, big enough to catch a shark. I thought you would have said the Minister has thrown a net big enough to catch a whale, because that is what our Minister has done. She was facing a mammoth task, big enough to be compared to a whale. I am happy that you realise that she has a big net to catch a whale and therefore deliver.

I like the way hon Mike Waters carries himself. The other day I warned hon Taljaard that when you carry out research you don’t start with results and work towards the results. [Laughter.] You start with the unknown and work towards the unknown and that becomes your results. You come here and give us issues that we know about and you tell us that you have undertaken research and that there are some calculations that you made. What were you calculating because we already know what you calculated? You wasted time. [Laughter.] So, I counted how many times you asked the same question to the Minister. You did it no less than eight times. I don’t know who is doing that to you. Whoever is doing that to you is doing a disservice to you. At your age, you still have a lot of places to go.

My friend, Adv Madasa, as a Christian I know that you were probably advising us and did not mean any harm. But, please be careful next time. I’m just warning you and I’m not going to say anything today. Yesterday when we were listening here, we heard about how people get corrupted and so forth and so forth. However, one of the best forms of corruption is to start a pyramid scheme. [Laughter.] You must pass that message on. I thank you. [Laughter.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER FOR THE PUBLIC SERVICE AND ADMINISTRATION: Deputy Chairperson, I would like to start off with what I did not actually complete earlier on when I made my input, because I think that when one looks at a portfolio such as Public Service and Administration, it’s necessary to ensure that we always keep ourselves focused on the goal. As Njabulo Ndebele, the poet, says and I would like to quote him: ``I felt the growth of strength in me for I had a goal.’’ This is the goal that makes us strong in order to alleviate the misery that a large portion of our population spend their lives faced with, and to ensure that South Africa is a country that can thrive.

We’ve made a beginning in the turning of the tide to make that possible. That thriving is for society as a whole and not for selective groups or individuals. Having said that, I would want to go back to recognise those individuals in the House who should be acknowledged.

The Centre for Public Service Innovation awarded their first round of innovation awards during May this year. Innovators within the Public Service were identified as well partners in the private and nonprofit sectors who contribute towards improvement in service delivery. The first Public Service innovator of the year is Naomi Mausebone who is in the gallery up there. [Applause.] She’s a senior physiotherapist at Natalspruit Hospital, a public hospital. And, at her own initiative, she introduced an information and support programme to assist children with asthma and their caregivers. That is a highly successful programme. The hospital has been asked to expand it to other areas. We need many Naomis in the Public Service and we need to acknowledge them for what they’ve done. [Applause.]

There’s a second person in the gallery and I must try and locate him. He hasn’t won an award, but I think it is necessary to acknowledge him today. That’s someone who has played a role in the public sector and private practice and is back in the public sector and has shown that it’s possible to make the impossible happen - that’s Dr Francois Majoos. He is somewhere in the gallery. [Applause.] He, together with colleagues Dr Marais and Prof Emslie, established that political prisoners were poisoned on release from prison. He wrote about the case of Simphiwe Mthimkhulu, a student political activist who was poisoned with thalium, in the South African Medical Journal. And this was later verified at the TRC.

In the 1980s together with Prof Keeton he looked after a number of political prisoners who were on hunger strike while on Robben Island and then transferred to Somerset Hospital in Green Point. He also did many other things. Francois at the moment is subjected to a particular disability himself. But, in the true spirit of public service, he’s decided to take this on by ensuring that specialists will test and look at treatment that can be used. He is, in this instance, subjecting himself to that treatment. He’s not stopped his work. He’s also still in the public sector as a physician. I want to say to Francois, ``public servants like you are outstanding. We wish there are many more.’’ [Applause.]

I can also mention some others who are not here today. And I want to start with a young policeman called Willem van Niekerk from Bethlehem in the Free State. He is a hero who just did his duty, as he stated. He is a young policemen who saved a baby who was thrown into a pit latrine by a mother. On arriving on the scene of the crime, without hesitation, this young policeman snatched that baby. This young policeman went into a hole in the dim light of a small flashlight and used his bare hands to save that baby. He found this little boy who was close to death. But, fortunately, on admission to the Bethlehem Hospital maternity ward he was saved and slowly nursed back from the brink of death. [Applause.] As this young man said: ``Minister, ek het nie veel woorde nie. Ek praat nie veel nie. Ek doen net my plig. Ek is iemand wat die mense dien.’’ [Minister, I do not have many words. I do not talk much. I do my duty. I am someone who serves the people.’’] [Applause.]

We then have Miss Thuli Mahlaba, a head of a rural school, Masijabule, which is situated in deep rural KwaZulu-Natal. She is a super achiever and is the first woman to head that school. She has managed to achieve matric pass rates between 80% and 98% over the past two years. That pass rate is far better than most equipped schools in the whole country could dream of. The school, at this point, has no adequate facilities and they’re working on it. But, her work has caught the attention of underachieving neighbouring schools. Learners from those schools come to her school to attend extra classes which are unavailable at their schools. These are the public servants that we want. These are the ones we want to consider.

When we look at stats, we don’t look at what number of times did the Minister omit an issue in her speech. If you’d bother to go and look at the full text you will find that there are a number of issues that have been left out, including the issue of HIV/Aids. We’re not here about statistics and mentioning issues but we’re here to ensure that we turn the tide.

We don’t have time for the likes of Mike Waters who can sit in the luxury of that seat and not serve the community members that he represents, then stands up and thinks he’s coming with something new while it is something that public servants deal with everyday - those who are involved in research in the Public Service to find a solution to the reality of HIV/Aids; those in the Public Service who are trying to find an antidote that will ensure that we have medication and antiretrovirals that are cheaper and cost-effective for our people; those in the Public Service and parastatals who have led to find the solutions and provide nutritional responses such as e-pap; those in the Public Service who actually say: ``We won’t, like Mike Waters, sit on the sideline but we will actually deliver by finding the solutions that work.’’; those, like the doctors who are here in the gallery; those, like the researchers who are here in the gallery; and those academics who are willing to do the work in order to find the solutions - and they are on the table and are being tested at present.

We’re not there to beat our chests. Like Brecht says:

The old dressed up in new Stinking of the old dressed in new.

We are not into that, because we are about turning the tide. We’re in the battalion that will march and make sure that the Public Service is indeed what this country requires, that we build the developmental state, and that we have the responses required.

Earlier today, there were some questions and issues raised by members which puzzled me a bit. I want to respond to one member who really puzzled me and I’m sure that she got confused herself, the hon Roopnarain. She spoke spoke about the IFP wanting a lean and mean Public Service. I am not so sure when she went further and then said: ``However, when you cut back, make sure that you cut only the fat because sometimes the fat goes into the muscle.’’ I couldn’t really understand that.

I want to state today, once again, as said by the President: We are not about cutting the Public Service. We are not about a lean and mean Public Service. We want a Public Service that’s going to meet the service delivery needs required by our country. When we look at the numbers and look at the skills requirement, we look at the competency needs. We ensure that, regarding the social sectors and the other sectors that have been identified, the personnel needs are met and that that will be within the budgets that have been identified.

What has been absent to date is acknowledgement of the fact that, to a large extent, the strategic plans were in some instances well-crafted by consultants but put on shelves by HODs and not utilised. And, we now say: ``Bring out those scrapped plans, look at the human resource plans that should match them, look at the budget and ensure that we do, with the resources available, turn around what’s required with the right kind of Public Service that we need.’’

The hon member also went into almost a kind of a polemic around Samdi - what it is and what it’s not. She also contradicted herself later when she said that we must look at Southeast Asia and what is happening there. Please, go back and look at what we’re doing with Samdi. Look at the fact that, indeed, we are dealing with the challenge of the role of Samdi in order to ensure that it does deliver the training and meets the training needs within the Public Service. The DPSA looks at carving out the broad human resource policy and the PSETA is also involved in the learnerships and other initiatives. How do we bring this all together and ensure that we can complement the required needs as Samdi should in terms of its niche, both nationally as well as in the African region as a whole? That’s what we’re going to deal with. In terms of the turnover of senior managers, one director-general left Samdi because his contract expired. Regarding the other five managers who left, one retired due to ill-health, two were promoted and one resigned. I think that we must look at this a bit closely. I also want to say to the other members who raised the whole issue of turnover and whether we are able to retain public servants that I think they should go back again and remind themselves what the senior management service offers.

It is very clearly designed to ensure that we recruit and retain the kind of senior managers that are required in the Public Service. That is the purpose of it. We have put in place a wage structure that competes favourably, I believe, with the private sector. There may well of course be certain exceptions, but that’s exactly why we want to ensure that in certain management positions we have those who are patriots and who want to turn around what’s required.

I think that the hon member, Ntuli, got himself into many knots. After what Johnny had said about the porcupine and a certain part of the anatomy, maybe we should spare Ntuli. I think Ntuli should read this portfolio a bit more closely. I know you were transferred from Education because you interacted too closely. There is a way, somehow, that the party on the left gets rid of those who are in areas in which they may be more competent.

The practice of public servants being put on full pay while suspended is linked to standard labour law. According to standard labour law one is innocent until proven guilty. It’s been agreed that the long terms for being suspended on full pay are counterproductive. That’s precisely why we put a new disciplinary procedure and code in place. It’s there. I think that we should just bother to look at it and ensure that we have a correct understanding of it instead of trying to confuse everyone and ourselves in the process. In instances where there’s been long, drawn-out disciplinary procedures it has been found that there is a problem within the department, either in the human resource management component or that the procedure itself has not been appropriately followed.

I want to spend a few minutes of my time in closing by just looking at corruption again.

En ek wil weer sê een van die vernaamste prioriteite van die Regering is die bevegting en voorkoming van korrupsie. Indien ons sosiale veranderinge teweeg wil bring, benodig ons eerlikheid en integriteit in die staatsdiens. Een van die gevolge van korrupsie is dat skaars hulpbronne nie aangewend word vir dit waarvoor dit bedoel is nie. En dit is juis hierdie hulpbronne wat vir die armes bedoel is. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[And I want to say once again that one of the most important priorities of the Government is the combating and prevention of corruption. If we want to bring about social changes, we need honesty and integrity in the Public Service. One of the results of corruption is that scarce resources are not used for what they were intended. And it is precisely these resources that are intended for the indigent.]

Earlier this year there was a reference to the release of the Country Corruption Assessment Report. I want to say that our efforts to combat corruption have two components: a framework for addressing corruption in society at large and a framework for addressing corruption in Government itself. Within Government, we are dealing with this. And, we are also working to address corruption at a very hands-on level. For example, the Public Service Commission continues to undertake useful investigations into specific cases of corruption. The findings of those investigations prove insightful regarding the problem and provide practical solutions.

In the Eastern Cape, the interim management team and the joint action task team are working to address specific cases and a number of people who have been implicated have already been charged and appeared in court. The anticorruption initiative in this province provides a good example of an integrated multiagency response to the problem. The agencies involved include the Public Service Commission, Department of Public Service and Administration, and all law-enforcement and prosecuting agencies - the National Prosecuting Authority, SA Police Services, the Special Investigation Unit, the Office of the Auditor-General as well as the National Intelligence Agency.

We’re also working tirelessly to address the province’s backlog of 466 disciplinary cases; a hundred of which have now been heard. We’re also considering proposals for the creation of a permanent anticorruption capacity in the province. A special corps dedicated to the problem has been set up in Mdantsane and a second one is to be set up in Umtata. These will speed up the prosecution of corruption cases and serve as a visible deterrent to anyone contemplating corrupt activities. There is a major training programme involved in that. The PSC has also developed an explanatory manual on the code of conduct to enhance the understanding of the code. I also want to thank the chair of the portfolio committee, hon John Gomomo, for the work that he’s done and for the work of the committee over the past year. Indeed, you have taken forward the challenge confronting this portfolio in a manner that clearly reflects an understanding of public administration and governance - unlike the hon member in the red jersey who thought that Nepad and international issues don’t relate to governance in any way whatsoever. I wonder what he thinks of the Peer Review Mechanism and where that comes from? He sees that as a Foreign Affairs matter. I think that there’s a need to expand the work of the portfolio committee to also enlighten other MPs and to give them a bigger worldview of issues as well as the national view.

I would like to thank the team and leaders of the team: the Chairperson of the Public Service Commission, Prof Stan Sangweni; the Director-General of DPSA who leads the DPSA team, Muthanyi Robinson Ramaite; the Chairperson of Sita, Zodwa Manase, together with the acting CEO, Ken Modise, for leading the Sita team; the Chairperson of CPSI, Gugu Hlatshwayo, who is not here today, but the CPSI CEO, Glenda White, is here; the Director-General of Samdi, Bobby Soobrayan and his team, and we’d like to thank them for the work they’ve done; and, the Chair of the Gito Council. I hope that I’ve not left out any member of the team seeing that we’re dealing with three Votes today. [Applause.]

I want to conclude by saying that, in this particular portfolio, we want to ensure that the people shall govern and that South Africa belongs to all who live in it. We shall ensure that the face of the Public Service shall change in order to reflect that - not only in terms of the demographics but also the skills base required. We will ensure that we take that forward.

Lastly, I want to say that in order to make this happen there has been the strength and vision of the organisation, but there’s also the micro level of the family that makes a difference and assists. I need to thank my three children, Nothando, Themba and Solomzi for being supportive; and Jabu Moleketi for being a supportive partner. [Applause.] I would also like to thank my mother who is in the gallery and my mother-in-law, MaShongwe, who is watching this on TV today. Thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICE AND
                 ADMINISTRATION - PROVINCIAL VISITS

There was no debate.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I move:

That the Report be noted.

Agreed to.

The House adjourned at 18:58. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Introduction of Bills:

 (1)    The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism:


     (i)     National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Bill [B 30
          - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 76) [Bill and prior notice of
          its introduction published in Government Gazette No 24935 of
          30 May 2003.]


     Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on
     Environmental Affairs and Tourism of the National Assembly, as
     well as referral to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on 12 June 2003.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bills may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
     within three parliamentary working days.

National Assembly:

1. Membership of Committees:

 (1)    Mr A Mlangeni has been elected as co-chairperson of the Ad Hoc
     Joint Committee on Reparations with effect from 3 June 2003.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry:

 Government Notice No R.665 published in Government Gazette No 24870
 dated 16 May 2003: Fire Protection Regulations, made in terms of
 section 20(2) of the National Veld and Forest Fire Act, 1998 (Act No
 101 of 1998).