TUESDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER 2003 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 14:02.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                    SUSPENSION OF RULE 110(2)(b)

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move:

That the House suspends Rule 110(2)(b) in regard to the week of 8 to 12 September 2003 in order to enable the Deputy President to answer Questions in both the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces during the same week.

Agreed to.

                        WORLD PARKS CONGRESS

                        (Member's Statement)

Mrs G L MAHLANGU-NKABINDE (ANC): Madam Speaker, the ANC congratulates the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, and in particular the outgoing CEO of SA National Parks, Mavuso Msimang, for hosting the first- ever World Parks Congress to be held in Africa.

We welcome all delegates to our beautiful country. This is a 10-year event, convened by the World Conservation Union, the IUCN, and is a key national event for all national parks and other categories of protected areas throughout the world. The theme of the congress is ``Benefits beyond boundaries’’. This theme recognises that protected areas cannot exist in isolation, and must be responsive to the social, economic, political and cultural needs of society.

In this regard, South Africa has achieved a lot in less than 10 years. We have world heritage sites, and transfrontier parks to boost economic activities for communities. This Parliament will be passing the National Environmental Management: Protected Areas Bill in the coming two weeks.

The ANC congratulates the organisers of the congress, the IUCN, the delegates of the World Parks Congress for the honour bestowed upon former President Nelson Mandela at the opening of the congress yesterday. The ANC wishes participants success in their deliberations, and hopes that this conference will contribute positively to the realisation of the commitments made at the World Summit on Sustainable Development.

I wish this Parliament to reaffirm what I have just said, that the one Creator is in all things, and all things are in one Creator. [Applause.] ACCUSATIONS AGAINST NATIONAL DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS

                        (Member's Statement)

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION (DA): Madam Speaker, when the Director of Public Prosecutions, Bulelani Ngcuka, was appointed in 1998 by a Cabinet that included the then Minister of Transport, Mac Maharaj, the ANC declared that he ``had both the ability and the will to help transform the judicial system of our country’’.

Now there are senior ANC figures who are parading accusations against the same national director from a decade-old project called ``Operation Bible’’. If these accusations are true, why were they not addressed at the time? Did President Mbeki know about them when he appointed him? How many other Ministers and members of the executive are also suspected or named as being apartheid-era spies?

Curiously, the very people who are supporting and flaunting these accusations today are themselves being investigated or are connected to the very people whom the hon Ngcuka has been investigating. They are not, incidentally, asking for a general exposé of apartheid-era spies, but they are uniquely aiming at the head of the National Director of Public Prosecutions. They are flouting the provisions of the National Prosecuting Authority Act of 1998, which states that no person ``shall improperly interfere with, hinder or obstruct the prosecuting authority’’.

The ANC’s internal bloodletting and its leaks and smears are vandalising the constitutional fabric of this country. It is time for President Mbeki to lay down the law. He must either declare full confidence in the hon Ngcuka, whom he handpicked himself, or he must dismiss him on the basis of verifiable accusations. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

              TRIBUTE TO BISHOP COLENSO AND HIS FAMILY

                        (Member's Statement)

Prince N E ZULU (IFP): Thank you, Madam Speaker, it’s Heritage Month. I rise to pay tribute to that faithful woman of the nineteenth century, Harriet Emily Colenso, daughter of the first bishop missionary who came to KwaZulu-Natal from London. Bishop Colenso came at a time when the kingdom of KwaZulu-Natal was on the verge of defeat, annihilation and total collapse. That was during the reign of King Cetshwayo and later his son, King Dinuzulu.

Harriet, commonly known in Zulu circles as uDlwedlwe, because of her height and stature, was a woman of outstanding qualities: brave, compassionate, loving, committed to the cause of a kingdom under siege. She was at the side of King Cetshwayo at the height of British imperialism, the Anglo-Zulu war at iSandlwana, the destruction of Ulundi by fire, the incarceration of King Cetshwayo here in the Cape Castle, etc.

To recognise King Dinuzulu as king of the Zulu nation was a mammoth task to the British crown until other means were put in place. Harriet was with the young king in exile on the island of St Helena, some 5 000 km away from his kingdom. King Dinuzulu never enjoyed a moment of peace during his reign, as he was exiled a second time to the town of Middelburg, where he saw his last.

Harriet was by his side, all the way, all the time. Indeed, Harriet stood at the forefront in the Zulu struggle against imperialism, and her name will be remembered for many more generations indeed in the annals of Zulu history.

Bishop Colenso’s family, and Harriet in particular, proved exceptional devotion to the Zulu royal house when they undertook to ensure the safe and dignified return of the body of King Dinuzulu from Middelburg all the way to the Valley of Emakhosini in Mabanango where he was laid to rest. [Time expired.]

                AWARD FOR HEROIC ACTIONS OF POLICEMEN

                        (Member's Statement)

Nk P N MNANDI(ANC): Somlomo, ngokudela izimpilo zabo behlenga abantwana emlilweni, iphoyisa uJacob Motsepe nosayitsheni u-Ernest Mpolokeng bangamaqhawe oqobo. Ngenyanga kaMandulo le esisuka kuyo, lama phoyisa abikelwa ngunkosikazi ukuthi indoda yayo ibophele embhedeni abantwana bayo abane izandla nezinyawo ngenhloso yokubashisa nomkhukhu. Ezwa ukukhala kwabantwana endlini eshayo, lama qhawe ephula amawindi angena abakhulula.

Ngalesi senzo esihle lama phoyisa abesehlonishwa nge-debis Fleet Management National Emergency Hero of the Year Award. UKhongolose uthi kuwena phoyisa uJacob Motsepe nawe sayitsheni u-Ernest Mpolokeng sinethulela izigqoko. Sithi bambanani njalo nifake isandla nakhe lesi sizwe sakithi. Phambili nezikadalawane, phambili! [Ihlombe.] (Translation of Zulu speech follows.)

[Mrs P N MNANDI (ANC): Chairperson, by risking their lives to rescue children from fire, Constable Jacob Motsepe and Sergeant Ernest Mpolokeng are real heroes. In August, last month, these policemen were informed by a woman that her husband had tied her four children’s hands and feet to the bed with the intention of burning them along with the shack. Hearing the crying voices of the children in the burning shack, these heroes broke the windows and easily jumped in.

For that good act, these policemen were honoured with the Fleet Management National Emergency Hero of the Year Award. The ANC says to Constable Jacob Motsepe and Sergeant Ernest Mpolokeng: We are taking our hats off to you.'' We say:Continue co-operating and contributing in the building of our nation. Forward with the police, forward!’’ [Applause.]]

                     ARROGANT STANCE OF THE SABC

                        (Member's Statement)

Mev ANNA VAN WYK (Nuwe NP): Mev die Speaker, die SABC moet nie sy rol as openbare uitsaaier ondermyn nie. In vanoggend se Cape Times word berig dat die SABC sou gedreig het dat hy dit sal oorweeg om nie die Wêreldbeker Rugbytoernooi uit te saai nie, as hy nie tevrede is met die hantering van die rugbyondersoek nie. As openbare uitsaaier bedien die SABC alle Suid- Afrikaners en moet die fokus nie val op die uitsaaier of sy amptenare se eie agendas nie. Deur sy optrede skep die SABC die indruk dat hy ‘n bepaalde sportsoort dreig. Die vraag is of die raad van die SABC, wat die publiek verteenwoordig, in hierdie saak geken is, voordat die openbare uitsaaier hierdie arrogante standpunt ingeneem het.

Twee sake moet hier geskei word. Eerstens is daar die debat oor die media se toegang tot die ondersoek. Tweedens is daar die kwessie van die uitsaairegte vir die Wêreldbekertoernooi. Die SABC doen sy saak geen guns deur die twee by mekaar te betrek nie. Die openbare uitsaaier kan toekomstige verhoudinge net skade berokken, nadat dit so lank geduur het om die hele debat oor sportuitsendings op te los, om dié uitsendings aan alle Suid-Afrikaners beskikbaar te maak. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)

[Mrs ANNA VAN WYK (New NP): Madam Speaker, the SABC should not undermine its role as the public broadcaster. In this morning’s Cape Times it is reported that the SABC has apparently threatened to consider not broadcasting the Rugby World Cup tournament if it is not satisfied with the handling of the rugby investigation. As the public broadcaster the SABC serves all South Africans, and the focus should not be on the private agendas of the broadcaster or its officials. Through its conduct the SABC is creating the impression that it is threatening a specific sport. The question is whether the board of the SABC, which represents the public, has been consulted with regard to this matter, before the public broadcaster adopted this arrogant stance.

A distinction should be drawn between two matters here. Firstly, there is the debate about the media’s access to the investigation. Secondly, there is the issue of broadcasting rights in respect of the World Cup tournament. The SABC is doing its cause any good by linking the two. The public broadcaster can only harm future relations, after it had taken so long to resolve the whole debate about the broadcasting of sport, to make these broadcasts available to all South Africans. [Applause.]]

              EXCLUSION OF CITIZENS ABROAD FROM VOTING

                        (Member's Statement)

Rev K R J MESHOE (ACDP): Madam Speaker, the ACDP believes that the decision by the Cabinet, as contained in the Electoral Laws Amendment Bill, to exclude South African citizens abroad from voting in next year’s general election is unconstitutional. According to section 19 of the Constitution, all adult citizens are given the right to vote in elections in South Africa. This right was included in the 1994 Electoral Act, when South African citizens abroad were permitted to vote.

In terms of the present draft, only Government officials abroad and their families will be permitted to vote. What about the large numbers of South Africans who are working for South African and other companies overseas, or who find themselves overseas for a variety of reasons? It is unacceptable that no provision has been made for the hundreds of thousands of South African citizens overseas to vote, while awaiting-trial prisoners will be permitted to vote. The party is taking legal advice in this regard.

The ACDP is also concerned about the delay in the tabling of the Electoral Amendment Bill in Parliament. We believe that the delays in finalising the Bill have put the Portfolio Committee on Home Affairs under extreme pressure and will have a negative effect on the Independent Electoral Commission’s ability to prepare for next year’s elections.

                    TAIWAN AND THE UNITED NATIONS

                        (Member's Statement)

Dr P W A MULDER (FF): Madam Speaker, I can understand why he wants to be in the FF, if one looks at the ANC’s problems. Madam Speaker, South Africa was one of the few founding members of the United Nations in 1945. The UN started with 51 original members. Universal membership is a fundamental principle of the UN. Today there are 191 member states. The newest states include Palau and Tuvaulu with a population of 11 000 people. The Republic of China, Taiwan, is the only country in the world that remains excluded from the UN. Taiwan has a population of 23 million people, that is 2 000 times the size of the state of Tuvalu. From the 191 countries in the world, Taiwan has the world’s 17th largest economy with the world’s 15th largest trade volume. For the UN to refuse Taiwan membership of this organisation makes a mockery of the universal membership principles of this organisation.

The practical result of this decision is that with the recent outbreak of Sars in Taiwan, the country was excluded from the global network for preventing the spread of infectious diseases. The FF is aware of the arguments and the dispute between the People’s Republic of China and Taiwan. Ever since the establishment of the PRC, the two sides of the Taiwan strait have been governed separately, with neither having any control or jurisdiction over the other. The UN resolution to accept the PRC to represent the Chinese people left Taiwan’s people without representation. We want to appeal to the South African Government to support Taiwan’s application for membership at the next UN session or not to take sides on the issue at all.

                       IN MEMORY OF STEVE BIKO

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr P J NEFOLOVHODWE (Azapo): Madam Speaker, on 12 September 1977 the world was shocked by the announcement of the death in detention of Steven Bantu Biko. He had been in detention from 6 September 1977. During his short stay in detention various conflicting and false statements were made about him by the then Minister of Justice, Mr Jimmy Kruger. He proclaimed that Biko had gone on a hunger strike and that it was his democractic right to do so. When Biko died, he announced to the world that the death of Biko had left him cold. Even after his death, the racist settler regime continued to lie about what actually caused his death.

We know what killed Steve Biko: His unquenchable quest for true humanity. In honour of his everlasting memory Azapo commemorates his life and death every year from 6-12 September during Biko Week. This week provides us with a time to pause and reflect upon his work, his immense intellectual and revolutionary contribution towards the emancipation of black people in this country, and his selfless service towards them.

May he forever be remembered for his good work and continue to inspire us all towards a better society, where all in this country shall congregate and celebrate the victory of good over evil. [Applause.]

Mr M E GEORGE (ANC): Madam Speaker, in the by-elections in Uitenhage recently, the ANC recorded a tremendous victory in an area previously held by the DA. [Interjections.]

In the 2000 elections, the DA received 74% of the votes as against the 18% of the ANC. This time around, in a massive rejection of the DA, the ANC received 1 305 votes to the DA’s paltry 39% showing. Once again, as has been … [Interjections.]

The SPEAKER: Order!

Mr M E GEORGE: Once again, as has been typical of the DA, it has cried foul. They just cannot accept that the people of Uitenhage, ward 43, have rejected them. They prefer to believe their own negative propaganda.

The voters have rejected the arrogant fault-finding-with-everything attitude of Tony Leon, who specially flew to Uitenhage to address a bussed- in small group of people. The people have decided that their future lies with the ANC. [Applause.] Congratulations to the ANC and the team of hard- working volunteers. The tide has turned. Thank you, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]

           COST OF OPERATION OF INKWAZI, PRESIDENTIAL JET

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr N CLELLAND-STOKES(DA): Madam Speaker, almost half of all South Africans live on less than R20 a day. Millions of people struggle to earn enough money to give their children even one good meal every day. However, the first six months of the operation of the President’s luxury jet, according to the Minister of Defence, cost the people of South Africa R13,5 million. [Interjections.]

Now, that is a damning indictment of the ANC Government’s spending priorities. One flight from Pretoria to Cape Town, on 8 May - one of 17 local flights - cost R124 000 for six passengers, while a return business class flight from Johannesburg to Cape Town on the national carrier would have saved the taxpayer R97 000, and that is just on one flight. [Interjections.] Now, while the DA recognises the need for the President to travel safely and efficiently, every effort must be made to limit the expenses incurred in this regard. At the very very least, the Inkwazi, at R32 000 an hour, should not be used for national and shorthaul international flights. To do so simply rubs salt into the wounds of our people. [Interjection.] [Applause.]

The SPEAKER: Order!

                 THE KILLING OF WOMEN IN ESIKHAWINI

                        (Member's Statement)

Nksz M XULU (IFP): Somlomo, ngoLwesibili olwedlule kwenzeke isigameko esishaqisayo, esinyantisa umzimba ngenkathi kutholakala isidumbu somuntu wesifazane sicwiyiwe, ezinye izitho zomzimba wakhe zisebhodweni elibilayo eziko.

Ngokwemibiko yamaphoyisa lesi sidumbu ngesesibili sowesifazane sitholakala kule ndawo. Okubuhlungu kakhulu ukuzwa ukuthi abantu sebephenduke izinyamazane ezizingelwa zibulawe bese zenziwa isishebo ngabanye abantu, nokuthi lobu bunzima nalobu buzimuzimu bugaqele kakhulu abantu abangakwazi ukuzilwela, njengabantu besifazane.

Sithanda ukuncoma amaphoyisa endawo eSikhawini kwaZulu-Natali ngokuluthathela phezulu lolu daba, okuphethe ngokuthi asheshe abanjwe umenzi wobulwane. Siyethemba futhi ukuth lolu daba ngeke lubange noma lubhebhethekise inzondo kubantu bokufika kuleli zwe, ikakhulukazi njengoba sazi ukuthi umsolwa uyisakhamuzi saseMozambique.

Lesi sigameko simele ukugxekwa yizwe lonke ngoba siphikisana nomthetho wamalungelo abantu kanye nokuhlukunyezwa kwabesifazane. Sethemba ukuthi abezomthetho bazokwenza konke okusemandleni ukuqinisekisa ukuthi umenzi walobu bubi uthola isijeziso esimfaneleyo, nokuqinisekisa ukuphepha kwabantu bakuleyo ndawo, ikakhulukazi abesifazane nezingane njengoba sazi ukuthi yibona abantu bokuqala izigangi eziganga ngabo. (Translation of Zulu member’s statement follows.)

[Miss M XULU (IFP): Speaker, last Tuesday a shocking incident took place when a woman’s body was found mutilated and some of her body parts were in a boiling pot.

According to the police report, this is the second body of a woman to be found in this area. What is even more painful is the fact that people have become wild animals that are being hunted and killed, and they are becoming meals. This problem and cannibalism are directed particularly at people who are defenceless, like women.

We would like to commend the local police at eSikhawini, KwaZulu-Natal, for prioritising this matter, which resulted in the apprehension of the culprit. We also hope that this incident will not create hatred towards immigrants in this country, as we know that the suspect is a Mozambican citizen.

This incident should be condemned by the country as a whole because it contravenes the legislation on human rights and the abuse of women. We hope that law enforcement authorities will do their best to ensure that this evil man gets the punishment he deserves, and that they will also ensure the safety of the people of that area, particularly women and children, as they are the first people to get hurt.]

                      BY-ELECTIONS IN BETHLEHEM

                        (Member's Statement)

Mong L J MODISENYANE (ANC): Mofumahadi Speaker, ha nke ke hlome ntlo ena e hlomphehang malotsana ka mokgwa ona: Ka la 27 Phato monongwaha, mane lebatoweng la bobedi Betlelhema wa Freistata, tang tang e ile ya kgangwa ke lerole dikgethong tsa tlatsetso, ha ANC, PAC, BOCA le IFP di ne di qothisana lehlokwa.

Sephetho e bile ANC ka 87%, ha mekga e boletsweng e ne e arolelana 13% ho ya ka ho hlahlamana ha yona. Ha e le DA yona, ha e a ka ya itshwenya le ho itshwenya ho emela dikgetho. [Ditsheho.]

Ho tla boela ho eba le dikgetho tsa tlatsetso hona motseng oo, ka la 17 Loetse monongwaha, lebatoweng la boraro. Jwale, PAC, BOCA le IFP di imatahantse le DA ka ho se romele bonkgetheng karolong ena, etswe di sa ntsane di e hlotha dihlotse. Jwale he, ANC e ikenela ntle le phephetso. Bona ke bopaki bo tsejwang ba hore ha ho poho pedi Freistata. ANC e tla feta mohalotso dikgethong tsa naha le tsa profensi isaho, ntle le ho qea qea. Mekga e tla leka ho e ema tseleng, ntjanyana e tla ingwaya ka otwana la ka pele. [Ditsheho.] [Mahofi.] (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)

[Mr L J MODISENYANE (ANC): Madam Speaker, allow me to give this honourable House this short report: On 27 August 2003, in ward 2 of Bethlehem in the Free State, the competition between the ANC, PAC, BOCA and IFP became very tight during the by-elections. The ANC polled 87% of the votes, and the other parties shared the remaining 13%. The DA did not even bother to stand in the elections. [Laughter.]

On 17 September 2003 by-elections will be held in the ward 3 of the same town. But the PAC, BOCA and IFP have emulated the DA by not sending candidates for their parties. Therefore the ANC will go to the elections without any competition. This clearly shows that there is no other champion in the Free State. Without any doubt the ANC is going to win the national as well as the provincial elections without any problems next year. Those parties that will try to challenge it will fail dismally. [Laughter.] [Applause.]]

Die ANC en die Nuwe NP se verhoudinge in die Vrystaat voorspel ‘n groot nederlaag vir die DA. Die kiesers begin nou besef dat die DA nie kan … [Tyd verstreke.] [The relations of the ANC and the New NP in the Free State predict a major defeat for the DA. The voters are now beginning to realise that the DA cannot … [Time expired.]]

        IDENTIFICATION OF SUITABLE CLOTH FOR SCHOOL UNIFORMS

                        (Member's Statement)

Mrs M E OLCKERS (New NP): Madam Speaker, in the light of the recent speech by the hon Deputy Minister of Education and the statement after that occasion pertaining to school uniforms, the New NP would like to suggest that a team of say three experts on cloth qualities be asked to identify a suitable cloth for school uniforms and that that cloth be made available in six or eight colour dyes so as to enable the governing bodies to decide on a colour for the school with the badges and identification of that specific school. That would still enable the schools to have a colour of uniform of their choice for identification and competition, but no one uniform will cost more than the other and the look of not everyone being in the same colour will lead to more individuality than a mass of learners all over the country all dressed in the same colour uniform.

School uniforms cannot be done away with because that would lead to a greater competition to dress in brand names which will be more expensive or it could lead to an untidy and unkempt look of casualness in our schools. If other countries allow it, so be it. In South Africa we want our learners to have a feeling of belonging and being part of a team and we must encourage that.

                            PHARMACY WEEK

                        (Member's Statement)

Mr L V J NGCULU (ANC): Madam Speaker, the ANC welcomes initiatives such as Pharmacy Week. We congratulate the Department of Health, the Pharmaceutical Society of SA and the South African Pharmacy Council for their collective efforts in bringing across the message, ``Pharmacy - making medicines work for you! Together we can!’’

We have always understood the importance of providing affordable drugs to our people, especially those who are poor and cannot afford expensive medication. All our efforts over the past nine years and especially through the passage of the Medicines and Related Substances Control Act have been to provide communities, even those in the remote rural areas, with affordable essential drugs of good quality.

In Pharmacy Week the focus will be on building a partnership between the patient and the pharmacist. The public in general is encouraged to approach their local pharmacists and engage with them on all issues concerning medicine but especially on the medication they are currently taking, the need to take them, their side effects and information on cheaper generic brands delivering the same benefit. The ANC encourages everyone to participate in Pharmacy Week. [Applause.]

                           SCHOOL UNIFORMS

                        (Minister's Response)

The MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Madam Speaker, I would have liked to reply to the ACDP on the exclusion of foreigners. The largest cluster, of course, is the Cabinet, but I would deprive myself if I do not to refer to the hon Olckers’ statement about school uniforms. I corrected immediately the mispresentation of the Deputy Minister about the abolition of uniforms.

This is a matter that when we publish the funding of schools, we said that we must look at the question of the cost of uniforms. And we have a body looking into it. It is a very complex matter. We need to look at it in its entirety - as to the production, distribution, exclusive arrangements with the shops, and as to whether our people can manage to buy these expensive uniforms.

So I suggest to the New NP, through the hon Olckers, to submit its proposal which we will look at. Of course we must remember that uniforms are not worn in most countries of the world. And that is why we have a case as to why we need uniforms. I am sure that the case can be made because I just came back from overseas, and I found in comparison with our education system that no European country has uniforms. The United States does not have uniforms either, whether in the government or private schools.

But I think that we need to look at this afresh. There will be a case, undoubtedly, in the South African context, for uniforms, but not to the extent in which they cost R3 000, R4 000 or R5 000 for one child. In addition to that, the football and cricket gear have to be bought from one shop also. I welcome very much submissions from all 16 political parties, if they would submit their proposals here. I think we must come up with very sensible, realistic and acceptable proposals, so that governing bodies can embrace them with the kind of enthusiasm which removes the real costs and hardships that middle class families face now. It is not only the working class, but poor families - middle class families also face these. I think that Parliament should show its best face by making suggestions as to how we can improve the situation. Thank you.

        BRAVERY OF POLICE OFFICIALS AND ARREST AT ESIKHAWENI

                        (Minister's Response)

The MINISTER OF SAFETY AND SECURITY: Madam Speaker, there are many instances of the heroism of police officials, that we read about all the time. I will only suggest to members of this House to, at some point, do a scan of media reports over a given period of time and see how many stories will indicate the heroism that the hon member was referring to, of how many police officials, even at the risk of their own lives, will make available whatever assistance is required.

Indeed now and again there are citations that are brought before me, for me to sign - which are commendations that relate to the wonderful work that a number of these officials within the SA Police Services are indeed rendering. I am happy that the matter of Esikhawini is being raised, because there are certain things that one would like to go into.

Firstly, what it indicates is the fact that the police are sincere in the investigations that they do. That is why we were able to make an arrest as quickly as possible, relating to that horrendous incident in Esikhawini. But also I want to commend the people from that part of our country who did not resort to vigilantism. They went to the police in the first instance and worked together with them to effect that arrest. I am doing this because vigilantism is not at all a response to even some of the frustrations that our people have. They should not resort to vigilantism, because when they do that, they expose themselves to criminality. It cannot be allowed in a state like ours where democracy is the vehicle that all of us have to use to achieve our own interests as individuals and as members of society. Thank you very much for this.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, on a point of order: The hon Minister of Safety and Security is in the same justice cluster and he might not be aware of the fact that the hon Leader of the Opposition addressed the matter which he could very well respond to.

The SPEAKER: Order! I think the Ministers decide which responses they wish to make. You might want to change the rules, but … [Interjections.] PRISON CONDITIONS

                        (Minister's Response)

The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Madam Speaker, I tried to draw your attention because I simply wanted to respond to one issue raised by Rev Meshoe. There is a tendency amongst our own society to simply draw unfair parallels and comparisons when it comes to the prison system, which, to me, amounts to an advocacy for the violation of their basic rights.

There are times when I hear people clamour to say that we don’t have houses, but prisoners get accommodation. We don’t have food, but prisoners get food. We don’t have medicine, but prisoners get it. We don’t have milk for our small infants, but those born in prison get it. To me that is an advocacy for the violation of the basic rights of those people. It is not only in our law about awaiting-trial prisoners, but it is also in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, article 11(2), that says that they are still innocent until they are proven guilty. And, therefore, they want to vote. This is why Cabinet took that position.

                      PETROLEUM PIPELINES BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Madam Speaker, hon members, I’m very pleased to present the key features of this important piece of legislation of our country, as we strive to become an increasingly efficient and diverse energy economy. I am aware that the Bill was subjected to intense debate and discussion amongst the various stakeholders. I take this opportunity to thank them for their contribution and I also want to thank the chairman of the committee, Mr Goniwe, for his leadership.

I am, indeed, very pleased that we have reached this important milestone where, today, we are passing a Bill and ushering in a new era in South Africa’s energy economy. Through this Bill, we pave the way for an improved gas industry in South Africa regarding, in particular, the pipeline infrastructure. We also take forward our signed agreements with our SADC partners - the governments of Mozambique and Namibia.

The rationale for this Bill is to ensure that we address challenges ahead in our pipeline infrastructure. The infrastructure has been exceedingly important in meeting the growing demand for liquid fuels and supporting industrial development in the economic heartland since the 1960s. Thus, today, pipeline transport continues to play an important role in the South African economy. A wide range of fuel products are transported through some 3 000 km of pipeline which crisscrosses parts of South Africa.

We are also mindful of future expansion requirements and capacity constraints, as well as the fact that pipelines and storage facilities have to be strategic and be taken care of in our economy. As the economy develops, we will run out of this capacity. There will be a need to roll out new pipelines or embark on projects in order to de-bottleneck congestions. It is important that Government should create an enabling environment and encourage this development.

A network of pipelines is used for transporting crude oil and petroleum products between the port of Durban and refineries; the crude and synthetic fuel refineries in Gauteng and Mpumalanga; and between depots. The petroleum industry and markets are highly dependent on this network. The pipeline network is, thus, of strategic importance and the fact that the economy depends on a stable supply of liquid fuels, effective operation of petroleum pipelines and storage infrastructure.

To date, the state has managed the operation of much of the pipeline network. With this Bill, it is now going to become possible for parties other than the national Government, to become active in the ownership and operation of petroleum pipelines. This Bill takes the process of managed liberalisation further. It is, therefore, incumbent on Government to introduce regulatory measures to ensure the efficient operation of the pipeline network and the orderly development of future networks. All these changes must keep energy affordable, especially for the development of the industrial heartland and the whole of South Africa.

The changes introduced in this Bill include: increased competition between and within energy carriers; protection of the country’s strategic interests; measures aimed at developing appropriate rules of the game for investors; facilitation of investment projects; and regulating only where it is necessary.

The overarching objectives of this Bill are: to establish a national regulatory framework for petroleum pipelines; to establish a petroleum pipelines regulatory authority as the custodian or enforcer of the national regulatory framework; and to provide for matters connected therewith.

The impartial pipelines regulator must make decisions that are consistent with the Constitution and this Bill, and are in the public interest. The regulator, as the licensing body, will ensure that no person will operate without a licence issued by the appropriate authority; construct a petroleum pipeline, loading facility, or storage facility - or operate a petroleum pipeline, loading or storage facility - without due process. Safety considerations, environmental impacts and economic rationale will contribute to the decisions that will be reached by the regulator.

Included amongst the key outcomes of this Bill are: the establishment of the pipeline regulator; the undoing of preferential tariffs between refined and crude products thus undoing a 40-year legacy; licences that will be issued for a period of 25 years at a time to ensure that investors can recoup their large investments; and crude oil supply mechanisms for the inland refinery and other benefits.

I also want to mention that, with this regulation, empowerment companies and other new entrants will have fair access to the pipeline and storage facilities that belong to the established company. We have seen that in the case of Richards Bay Coal Terminal where the port terminal is privately owned and empowerment parties have struggled to have access. In this case, we have made sure that this does not happen.

Even as I speak we are engaged, in my department, with the different stages of phasing in the gas infrastructure. The first phase includes an 865 km pipeline which is being built at a cost of US$549 million and will run between Mozambique and Secunda. The second phase will include options for the Western Cape. Those options will be an onshore pipeline from Kudu, in Namibia; an offshore pipeline which will run from Ibhubesi, on the West Coast, to Saldanha and will continue to Cape Town, and eventually reach Mossel Bay, Port Elizabeth and Coega. The third phase will be a pipeline from the West Coast to Gauteng, via Sishen; and the fourth phase will be Port Elizabeth via East London.

All along these pipelines there will be opportunities for small businesses to benefit as the pipelines would also have tributaries which will be able to provide gas for smaller businesses. [Applause.] I ask you to pass this Bill that creates a strong gas industry in South Africa and a better life for all. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M T GONIWE: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker and hon members. The chaotic regulatory framework pertaining to the pipeline network of our country is but one typical example of the legacy and bad governance of the past dispensation. The poor regulation and management of this strategic asset resulted in a chaotic spontaneity which was informed by unfettered greed that sought to exclude large sections of our community from the construction, management and operation of this key strategic resource and asset whose vital role in the economy cannot be overemphasised.

The Bill in front of the House today is a further indication that our department and Government are equal to the task of dealing head-on with the distortions of the past by creating a regulatory framework which ushers in transparency, accountability, equity, equality and predictability. Gone are the days for exclusive cloak-and-dagger dealings which gave scant recognition to the imperatives of prudent economic practices and the aspirations of the poor communities who were relegated to lives of misery, deprivation and want.

Consistent with the transformatory vision of the ANC-led Government, this piece of legislation, inter alia , seeks to promote companies in the petroleum pipelines industry that are owned by historically disadvantaged South Africans by means of licensing conditions. Consistent with our commitment to good, transparent and accountable governance, the Bill before the House seeks to promote competition in the construction and operation of the petroleum pipelines loading facilities and storage facilities. It further seeks to promote the efficient, effective, sustainable and orderly development and use of petroleum pipelines loading facilities and storage facilities.

These key objectives of the Bill give a concrete meaning to our desire to facilitate entry by the historically disadvantaged in the upstream and thereby giving practical meaning to the ideas of the petroleum charter and broad-based black economic empowerment imperatives. This Bill is also a fitting response to the cries of those millions of our people who have placed their trust in the ANC to deliver them from the shackles of poverty, hunger, deprivation and want.

Allow me, therefore, to acknowledge the useful contributions we received during the public hearings from all key stakeholders in the industry, community-based organisations and individuals. These inputs have ensured that we produced a balanced piece of legislation which levels the playing field.

I would be failing in my duty if I did not congratulate the department and the Minister on painstaking work in pioneering this legislation and taking on board concerns of the stakeholders emanating from the public hearings. We must thank you, Minister Mlambo-Ngcuka, for your steadfast leadership, vision and commitment to the creation of a world-class petroleum industry whose prime beneficiaries must become all South Africans.

The ANC supports this Bill without reservations. It is equally important to acknowledge the spirit of goodwill and co-operation that exists between the industry and the department and the Ministry. It is this kind of goodwill and co-operation which has enabled the minerals and energy sector to play such a pivotal and pioneering role in the transformation process. I thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Mr I O DAVIDSON: Madam Speaker, much has been written about the political, social and economic costs of the apartheid government. One of the economic costs little written about but largely felt is the highly complex structure of the liquid fuels industry in this country, a structure marked by monopolies or near monopolies, collusive practices as well as heavy-handed government regulation.

All this has resulted in an artificially inflated price to the consumer at the pump, a price which we know is already too high. The DA has long argued that it is not only the rand/dollar exchange rate and the dollar price of a barrel of oil that has affected consumers; it is the structure of the industry which needs to be addressed at all levels of the value chain.

We recognise though that this cannot be done overnight. As said, the industry is huge, complex, anticompetitive and structurally embedded in its nature. I am pleased to say that this Bill begins the process of a managed liberalisation of the industry.

One of the structural problems has been the monopolistic control by Petronet of the pipeline network from Durban into the industrial heartland. A further problem, and I hope I’m not being too simplistic, has been the protection by the state of Natref’s hegemony over the industrial heartland by subsidised pipeline tariff structures and the restricted use of the pipelines for the distribution of refined products. To put it simply, it was difficult for coastal refiners to get their product into the hinterland effectively and at competitive prices.

The Bill goes some way towards undoing these restrictive anticompetitive practices. To me, the core achievements of the Bill are: Firstly, the regulation and control of the tariffs that the pipeline operator can charge. As said earlier, the pipeline controller is a monopoly, often blamed for charging excessive tariffs. Ideally, monopolies should be broken up and privatised, and if they can’t be, their pricing structures should be regulated. This is what the Bill seeks to do.

Secondly, it releases the pipeline from effective contractual control by the national refinery while ensuring that Natref gets sufficient feedstock to ensure its viability. Importantly, what it allows is greater access to the pipeline by the coastal refiners at competitive tariffs. Thirdly, by allowing multiproduct use of two of the pipelines, the pipelines will be utilised at optimum capacity.

In short, what this Bill will achieve is to allow coastal refiners greater penetration into South Africa’s industrial heartland. The result of these reforms has to be greater competition with resultant positive spin-offs for the consumer at the pump. We support the Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr E J LUCAS: Madam Speaker, it’s a feature of South Africa’s historical development that our country’s economic heartland lies thousands of kilometres away from our main deep-water ports at the coast. The economic heartland, essentially the province of Gauteng and its immediate surroundings, depends to a very large degree on different modes of transport to bring commodities and other production inputs to its doorstep.

These modes of transport include various ones such as rail and roads, but also include pipelines that bring crude oil and refined petroleum products to inland refineries and other industries and consumers that depend on these energy sources for production and consumption. Pipelines are, therefore, of national strategic importance.

It came as something of a surprise to many of us in this House that the operation of pipelines has never been regulated in this country. Of course, when one learns that the existing pipelines have either been owned or controlled by the state, the absence of regulations becomes more understandable.

However, as is the case with all aspects of life in the new South Africa, the situation has changed and it is now possible for companies other than the national Government to own and operate petroleum pipelines. A system of regulating these pipelines is, therefore, needed to ensure efficient operation of the pipeline network and the orderly development of the network in future.

The Bill before us, therefore, establishes the Petroleum Pipeline Regulatory Authority, which will deal with the necessary regulation of the pipeline industry and the licensing system for owners and operators of pipelines. The IFP welcomes its establishment, but we want to highlight two very important matters relating to the regulator. Firstly, it is imperative that the regulator’s staff is sufficiently qualified to execute their duties in a skilled, fair and reasonable manner. If such skills are not currently available, it is crucial that intensive training programmes be launched to equip staff with the necessary skills.

Secondly, the Cabinet has already decided that the various regulatory bodies in the overall energy sector would shortly be amalgamated into a single national energy regulator, which will evolve from the existing national electricity regulatory structure. The IFP welcomes the establishment of such a single regulator for the energy industry, but we would recommend that the process be speeded up as much as possible so that the unnecessary wastage of resources does not occur.

It would be an understatement to say that certain parties with large vested interests extensively lobbied Parliament on this Bill. Some of these interests have their origins in the history of sanctions-busting efforts by successive apartheid governments, yet their continued existence and strategic importance to the national economy meant that we, as legislators, had to be sure that our decisions would not endanger important national economic assets and their future contribution to our industrial development and growth.

During the deliberations on the Bill, it became evident that environmental and safety issues connected to petroleum pipelines, in particular their physical proximity to some of our communities, were not the real focus of the Bill and were covered by other legislation such as the Occupational Health and Safety Act and the National Environmental Management Act. We want to stress that because these Acts are administered by different departments, a special responsibility rests on Parliament and the petroleum pipelines regulator to ensure that a co-ordinated approach to environmental and safety issues is followed. It is only in this manner that the safety of communities in close proximity to pipelines could be assured.

The IFP will support the Petroleum Pipelines Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr B M DOUGLAS: Madam Speaker, the petroleum and pipelines industry is, indeed, as Cosatu puts it:

The lifeblood of the economy, whose secure supply through strategic arteries of the pipeline network … must be maintained.

In fact, they contradict themselves later but, I think, that introduction is good enough.

Pipelines are by their very nature potential natural monopolies across the globe, whether privately owned, state-owned or parastatally owned. However, the regulation of pipelines is also an international norm. Maybe I should quote - I think it’s applicable here - what the Minister said in the magazine called Acumen:

It is a satisfactory compromise between Government’s political imperatives and the commercial realities of the industry. History has shown us - I agree with the Minister - that the South African government of the past and to a lesser extent presently, has, through parastatals, played a major role in the petroleum and related energy industries with billions of rands in loans and subsidies. Sasol, Natref, Petronet, Portnet and Transnet were the main beneficiaries, and also the powerhouses of stable supply.

Studies, however, have also shown that the current pipelines and infrastructure have reached their sell-by date, as many pipelines were laid and infrastructure established in the sixties. Hence, there is an urgent need to invest, revamp and expand. A group called Groundwork - some type of environmental consciousness agitation group - has reported leakages, on 7 July, of about 950 million litres of petrol in Durban South, bitumen leaks, marine fuel pipeline leaks and freight failure in the same year. Then, we have this incident in Tongaat of a gas pipeline exploding next to a school. But, at the same time, I’ve seen in the newspaper clipping that I have here that: Transnet plans to spend R3 billion renewing the Durban to Johannesburg underground pipeline as part of the R12 billion to be spent on capital expenditure in the year ahead.

I think the intention is noble and I also think it is possibly an acknowledgement of the advanced stage of the decrepitude that our pipelines have reached and that we really need new ones. Even the Petronet study has shown that a section of the Durban to Johannesburg pipeline would face capacity problems by between 2005 and 2010. However, free market proponents says this would not have happened if private investment in new pipelines were allowed.

I wanted to get into the ethos of Cosatu’s critique of ``managed liberalisation’’ but I don’t think I have enough time for that. But that’s neither here nor there. Our country cannot afford any disruption in our supply line. The intention of the Petroleum Pipelines Bill is, therefore, to strike a balanced approach that allows new entrants, albeit in strictly controlled conditions, whilst not offending the delicate sensibilities and interests of the already established parastatals of good standing. It is, therefore, my brief to support the Bill on behalf of the New NP.

Mr S K LOUW: Speaker, I want to thank the Minister and the department for proposing this historical legislation to be voted on by this House.

The ANC supports this Bill before the House, not because the Minister is from the ANC, but because this Bill has materialised through a wide range of consultation. We had workshops, briefings by the department, oversight visits to the communities where pipelines are situated, and interaction with many other stakeholders. Contrary to what others might say, this Petroleum Pipelines Bill is in the economic interest of the country, and not in the interest of one or other vested interest.

What the Petroleum Pipelines Bill sets out to achieve makes economic sense from the perspective that it encourages free and fair competition amongst the oil industry players as well as ensuring that the inland market is constantly supplied with petroleum products. The Bill is another milestone towards breaking down apartheid barriers and thereby encouraging those former apartheid supporters/businesses in the oil industries to stand on their own feet and function in a competitive environment.

The Bill eliminates market manipulation through the old regulatory system for the efficient functioning of the state oil pipeline infrastructure. This Bill also proposes the creation of the Petroleum Pipelines Regulatory Authority. The regulator would have the powers, through licensing, monitoring and intervention, to break down what was called the Gordian knot.

I can see that all the opposition parties are surprised to hear of the concept of the Gordian knot and its relationship to the Petroleum Pipelines Bill and also the need for the pipelines to be regulated through the pipeline authority. The fact that they do not understand the concept of a Gordian knot and the necessity to cut the knot serves as a rationale for the opposition to be averse to the Petroleum Pipelines Bill. It has also become clear that anything the ANC proposes, they oppose, notwithstanding the economic soundness of the proposal. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: We are not opposing it. You are reading the wrong speech.

Mr S K LOUW: Let me focus on the Gordian knot in the pipeline infrastructure that was created by the reconfiguration of the inland pipeline system. [Interjections.] The refined product pipeline between Durban and Newcastle was changed to a crude oil pipeline at Ingogo. The refined product line from Ingogo to Secunda was changed to a gas pipeline, and the crude oil pipeline between Durban and Ingogo was changed to a gas pipeline. This gas pipeline became known as the Lily Gas Pipeline. This was also one of the last Acts passed in 1995, which was introduced by the then Minister of Minerals and Energy, Pik Botha, during the Government of National Unity, to reward those who supported apartheid with their hearts and souls. What has been the result of this reconfiguration? It has created a refined product stronghold on the inland market by shutting out additional refined products from the Durban Refiners. In order to create the Lily Gas Pipeline, Petronet spent R50 million to reconfigure the product and crude pipeline to a gas pipeline which had an income-generation of R166 million or R60 million per year. Now, to replace that lost refined product capacity that will shortly become a reality in the inland market, it will cost Petronet approximately R1,5 billion to build an additional product pipeline capacity.

Minister, I have stated earlier that it is obvious that Petronet cannot privatise as it is a natural monopoly. Moreover, it is important for the Natref neutralities principle to be restored between coastal and inland refineries. It is also obvious that Petronet in its current form cannot merely be transferred to the CEF group as it is imperative that the petroleum pipelines company, Petronet, is structured into an efficient commercial petroleum logistic company. In adopting this Bill, the committee reaffirms its role in contributing in a meaningful way to the transformation of the minerals and energy sector in a manner that promotes equitable redistribution of resources, redresses past injustices and imbalances in ownership and management, and ensures that these sectors serve the needs of all South Africa as a whole to the fullest extent possible. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mnr A BLAAS: Voorsitter, ek wonder of ons die agb Louw miskien nog ‘n paar minute tyd kan gee, dat hy net vir ons hierdie knoop van hom wil ontknoop, want ek het nog nie een party gehoor wat hierdie stuk wetgewing opponeer nie. Ek verstaan nie sy argument heeltemal nie.

Met die toetrede van meer instansies tot die ontwikkeling van logistieke infrastruktuur vir die hantering van petroleumprodukte en om gelyke toegang tot die infrastruktuur te verseker, is ‘n raamwerk vir deregulering noodsaaklik. Dit is die oogmerke van die wetsontwerp, spesifiek klousule 2 en gevolglik ondersteun die ACDP dit. Daar is egter definisies en terminologie in die wetsontwerp wat vaag is en tot misverstande kan lei. Die terme objectively justifiable'' and identifiable’’ soos in klousule 21 gebruik, word as ‘n voorbeeld genoem. Dié beskrywings is subjektief en relatief en kan moeilik al dan nie diskriminasie omskryf.

Tariefbepalings, soos in die wetsontwerp aanbeveel, word deur die reguleringsliggaam in klousule 28 voorgeskryf om te verhoed dat binnelandse verwerkingsaanlegte en bergingsfasiliteite … (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr A BLAAS: Chairperson, I wonder if we could give the hon Louw a few more minutes, so that he could unravel this knot of his for us, because I have not heard a single party say that it opposes this piece of legislation. I do not fully understand his argument.

With the entry of more institutions into the development of logistical infrastructure for the handling of petroleum products and to ensure equal access to the infrastructure, a framework for deregulations is essential. These are the objectives of the Bill, specifically clause 2, and consequently the ACDP supports it.

However, there are definitions and terminology in the Bill which are vague and could lead to misunderstandings. The terms objectively justifiable'' andidentifiable’’, as used in clause 21, are examples of this. These descriptions are subjective and relative and define discrimination with difficulty, if at all.

Tariff provisions, as recommended in the Bill, are prescribed by the regulatory body in clause 28 in order to prevent domestic processing plans and storage facilities …]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, your time has expired.

Mr A BLAAS: Ek kan nie dink dit is ‘n minuut nie. [I cannot believe that that was a minute.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Chairperson. The petroleum pipeline has been solely handled by Petronet that has owned, maintained and operated a network of 3 000 km of high pressure petroleum. The MF strongly supports the privatisation of the petroleum pipeline industry that serves to benefit our economy.

Noting the importance of liquid fuels and the caution necessary for its management, the MF strongly supports the Petroleum Pipelines Bill, to ensure the proper management of the industry by the private sector. The great investment that this may invite is exciting, but it is crucial that the possible dangers be prevented by proper inculcation and management.

The Petroleum Pipelines Bill appears to harness a beneficial framework for the privatisation of petroleum pipelines. It is hoped that these provisions will be strictly adhered to so as to maintain the security of proper management.

The MF supports the Petroleum Pipelines Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mnr C AUCAMP: Agb Voorsitter, dit is ‘n aangename afwisseling om met ‘n wetsontwerp te handel wat eintlik deregulering moontlik maak, aangesien die brandstof pypleiding voorheen totaal en al deur die staat beheer is. Daarom maak hierdie wetsontwerp dit moontlik dat alle rolspelers ook hierdie mark kan betree.

Aan die ander kant is dit so dat brandstof ‘n strategiese produk is en dat ons dit nie maar net aan die vryemark kan oorlaat nie. Dit is van strategiese waarde vir Suid-Afrika en so ook die gerieflike vervoer van brandstof na die noodsaaklike punte. Daarom is ‘n raamwerk nodig en is die deregulering wat in hierdie wetsontwerp voorgestel word, ook noodsaaklik.

Die Nasionale Aksie glo dat hierdie maatreëls binne perke is, dat dit ‘n billike wetsontwerp is, dat dit daartoe sal lei dat hierdie strategiese middel in Suid-Afrika ten beste aangewend sal word vir die doeleindes van Suid-Afrika, sy doelwitte en al sy mense. Die Nasionale Aksie steun dus graag hierdie wetsontwerp. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Hon Chairperson, it makes a pleasant change to be dealing with a Bill which actually makes deregulation possible, since the fuel pipeline was totally controlled by the state before. Therefore this Bill makes it possible for all role-players to enter this market.

On the other hand it is a fact that fuel is a strategic product and that we cannot just leave it to the free market. It is of strategic value to South Africa, as is also convenient transportation of fuel to the necessary points. For that reason a framework is necessary and the deregulation proposed in this Bill is also essential.

The National Action believes that these measures are reasonable, that this is a fair Bill, that it will result in this strategic means in South Africa being used to its full potential for the purposes of South Africa, its goals and all its people. The National Action therefore wishes to support this Bill.]

Mr B G BELL: Chair, Minister, members of Parliament, it is my pleasure to speak on the Petroleum Pipelines Bill on behalf of the DA.

The purpose of this legislation is to establish a national regulatory framework for petroleum pipelines, and further to establish a Petroleum Pipelines Regulatory Authority to regulate the administration of pipelines and storage facilities.

Currently, we have three pipelines from the Kwazulu-Natal coast to Gauteng/Mpumalanga transporting gas, crude oil and refined products from the coast to inland areas. These are all owned and administered by Petronet, a state-owned public enterprise under the Transnet umbrella. This has resulted in a monopoly situation and this Bill endeavours to open up the use of the pipelines. The establishment of this authority to regulate the pipelines will improve the situation and, in turn, when a single energy regulator is established, the whole industry will be better managed.

The Minister must appoint the five members to the authority. This gives the Minister power to regulate the use of the pipelines. As the petroleum industry is a specialised industry, the appointment of this authority will be very difficult. To meet the requirements in this Bill, the Minister will need to be very careful in not allowing a conflict of interest to penetrate.

In future all pipelines will have to be licensed. The licence will be issued by the authority under very stringent regulations and will be valid for 25 years, renewable on application.

The DA will support the Bill, and trusts that the industry will be more open and private enterprise activities will be more readily accommodated. [Interjections.] I thank you.

Mr J H NASH: Speaker, Minister, Deputy Minister, my colleagues in the ANC and others on the opposition benches, the horizon in the transformation of the oil industry can be seen through the two Bills before the House today.

With regard to the oil industry, you have to understand the past in order to understand the present necessity for transformation. Policies and legislation must be well informed and researched, and not like Mr Davidson who, before he understands the critical issues, jumps in with three boots, taking a vested interest position and not a national interest position.

My address today reflects on the hidden financial benefits of apartheid in the logistics infrastructure of the oil industry. The DA must not suggest that they are against apartheid when their objections to clauses in the Bill are aimed at the retention of these hidden financial benefits of apartheid.

The apartheid financial benefits are hidden in the tariff structures and the agreements that the former regime foisted on Petronet. Furthermore, it is not a financial benefit that is earned through investment but given free of charge. Who gets it? It is not for whom the bell tolls, that is the consumer, but for those who propped up the regulatory framework of apartheid.

To what extent has the consumer been taken to the cleaners, or income been lost by Petronet? This would have to be assessed on the basis of a fundamental fair play principle. You reap what you sow, a reasonable profit, not more not less. Furthermore, numbers do not lie, Mr Davidson, and this is why the proposed tariff-setting mechanism is fundamental in the Petroleum Pipelines Bill.

It was agreed in 1967 between SA Transport Services and Natref that the crude pipeline tariff would be set at the ratio of the Natref white product yield. For the past seven years this has not been implemented. The average tariff ratio was 62%, while the Natref white product yield ratio was 80% - an advantage of 18%. This advantage translates into unearned financial benefits. Was this an oversight, or was this a deliberate act of extracting superprofits from the system?

It is now clear to us that between 1996 and 2003, a seven-year period, Natref overrecovered on the pipeline by R438 million; the coastal refineries Sapref and Enref overrecovered by R204 million; Sasol Synthetic Fuels overrecovered by R2,305 billion; and a total of R2,947 billion was accumulated by Sasol - this, over and above their subsidy, courtesy of an unsuspecting consumer and the Department of Minerals and Energy.

The pipeline tariff charges to transport refined product are lower than the zone differential in the price of the product charged to the consumer. Moreover, Sasol claims the transport element for synfuels that it does not incur.

Discounting the fact that overrecovery is compensating for infrastructure and storage, the oil companies already charge through the MPAR mechanism. However, herein lies another discrepancy. Natref overrecovered R17,76 per 1 000 litres, while the coastal refineries overrecovered R10,75 per 1 000 litres. This resulted in a difference of R7,01 per 1 000 litres. Natref’s pipeline throughput was 24,699 million litres. Sasol Synthetic Fuels overrecovered by R83,65 per 1 000 litres. This, over the past seven years. [Interjections.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Do you know what you’re talking about?

Mr J H NASH: There are no costs associated with obtaining these superprofits. This is what I am talking about - these superprofits - if you had listened. If this tariff structure was geared towards encouraging refineries in supplying the inland market, surely all players should have received R10,75 per 1 000 litres as is the case for coastal refineries, and not R17,76 or R83,65 per 1 000 litres as was received by the inland refineries? This is how the apartheid regime propped up their favourite sons.

The concept of Natref in Durban has nothing to do with being at a disadvantage to the Durban refineries. Rather, this is about protecting superprofits to the exclusion of all others in the lucrative inland market. We must get this right in our thoughts. [Interjections.] If there was real neutrality between the Durban and the inland refineries and no refineries received extra money, the inland price could have been lowered by 4c per litre.

An HON MEMBER: Why not?

Mr J H NASH: Upon the passing of this Bill - you didn’t listen as usual - these matters will require the immediate investigation of the Minister. Mr Davidson, now you and your whole party know why the ANC supports the Bill, and particularly the tariff-setting mechanism for the Petroleum Pipelines Regulatory Authority. You don’t have to be a rocket scientist to come to these conclusions. [Interjections.] It is high time that Mr Davidson and the DA acknowledge that they need to start taking lessons on the oil industry from the ANC. The next thing that we really want to get down to is this overrecovery and underrecovery story which we have to suffer from every month as consumers. It is about time that we discussed this so that there does not need to be an overrecovery and underrecovery. As usual, of course, my good friends here from the DA don’t understand these things and so they have to make a noise all the time. Sometimes I feel sorry for these poor chaps. We need to stop addressing them from the podium and take these people for lessons so that they will know what the oil industry is about and stop supporting vested interests and look at the national position. [Interjections.]

The national position is that we must look at the interests of everybody concerned, particularly the motorist. Why is the motorist paying 4c more? Why? [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Tell us why.

Mr J H NASH: You must follow what I’ve just said. You’re asking why because you didn’t listen to what I was saying. Next time see that you listen. Thank you. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Hon Chairperson, Oom Nash is always a hard act to follow. I would like to thank all the members and the parties for supporting this Bill. Mr Davidson, thank you very much for also supporting, interestingly, empowerment, cleaning up the industry and its intricacies.

I want to assure Mr Lucas that the issue of energy regulators is uppermost in our minds. We are working on it. We may need help from the committee as we are a bit late in terms of the required timeframes for Parliament, but this is critical because gas is going to be coming in 2004, so we do need to have that in place. Regarding the issue of leakages underground that was raised by the member from the New NP, I also want to assure him that the new regulator will also be seized with that matter.

I do want to thank the committee for the amount of work they have done - the visits they undertook, their interaction with communities and the big stakeholders, as well as the general research they did in preparation for this Bill, which was very impressive. Mr Aucamp, I also want to thank you for highlighting the strengths of the Bill, in particular for highlighting the strategic nature of the pipelines infrastructure.

I also want to inform members that there is going to be extensive training for the members of the new regulators. The training that we have planned for them includes training here in South Africa and in different parts of the world where we will be able to get exposure to top and world-class regulators in this sector.

As a result of passing this Bill, hon members, you must now know that you have just ushered in an era in which we are introducing cleaner energy to the South African economy; we are diversifying our sources of energy; we are creating greater security of supply; and, of course, we are making an industry that is more open but, at the same time, managed in a strategic way in the sense that Government continues to play a role and to provide stewardship. So, as I said, after Uncle Nash what is there to say? Thank you very much, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill read a second time.

                  PETROLEUM PRODUCTS AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Hon Chair … ANC e a sebeletswa. Namhlanje ngitholakele [… one works hard for the ANC. Today they got me.]

Chair, hon members, this Bill, the Petroleum Products Amendment Bill has been the subject of intense debate and discussion. It is rather a complex piece of legislation and amending it was also quite complex. Again, I want to thank the members, because they did a sterling job.

Through this amendment we are introducing and ushering in a new era in the energy industry, especially the petroleum industry. This Bill provides for licensing of persons involved in the manufacture and sale of petroleum products; it prohibits certain actions relating to petroleum products, such as self-service, so that we do not lose jobs - we still have the man and woman at the pump, vertical integration and people operating without a licence; it amends and substitutes or repeals obsolete provisions of the Act; it also provides for appeal and arbitration; it seeks to modernise the Act and to bring it in line with the current sociopolitical and economic priorities of the South African liquid fuels industry and the economy at large.

The previous government entered into a number of secret arrangements with the industry, which today cannot be ignored as we embark on a managed liberalisation programme. One of the strategic contexts that we need to note is the fact that procurement of petroleum products remains an important item in South Africa’s balance of payments, as crude oil still remains the single largest item in South Africa’s balance of payments account. The synthetic fuel programme and its importance in the context of the balance of payments and its environmental impact had to be taken into consideration in developing an appropriate regulatory framework because the country still derives a lot of benefits from synfuels.

The transformation of the liquid fuels industry, like all other sectors of the economy, is fundamental. This sector has been a pioneer in the area of transformation, as you know. The first empowerment charter was signed in this sector. Nevertheless, that charter was not regulated. Through this Bill we are regulating the liquid fuels charter. The industry is also currently structured in a manner that squeezes out the small players, and therefore that gives rise to one-sided contracts. Through this Bill we are also improving that environment.

The liquid fuels industry is on the verge of making significant investment to render their products more environmentally friendly. It therefore means that an environment conducive to such investment has to be fostered so that investors can feel secure.

One of the changes that we need to note as emanating from this industry is the fact that liberalisation and increased competition in the energy sector will be possible. We will remain internationally competitive. We will sustain the South African synfuels industry in a liberalised environment.

We will have a stable and continued supply of quality products nationwide. We will maintain an efficient network of transport retailing and storage infrastructure. We will also address issues of safety and environment as we manage the phasing in of unleaded petrol by 2006. We will also address the fight between retailers and oil companies that we experience in the industry from time to time.

The overriding objectives of this Bill include promoting an efficient manufacturing, wholesaling and retailing petroleum industry; facilitating an environment conducive to efficient and commercially justifiable investment; the creation of employment opportunities and the development of small business in the petroleum sector; ensuring availability of products at a competitive price countrywide, and promoting access to affordable petroleum products by low-income consumers and households. This is very important because the cost of energy to the poor is exceedingly high.

There are certain issues that one needs to mention regarding this Bill because they will be impacted in a particular way. One of them is, for instance, the fact that the Bill requires the industry to keep responsible commercial and strategic stock. In the case of strategic stock, financial implications to the industry will be considered by the state.

The Bill brings about transformation, as I’ve indicated, by regulating the charter. It also enables me and my department to move people from the intensive use of paraffin to LPG, which will increase safety in the poor households where the use of paraffin is still intensive and which leads to many accidents, especially amongst children.

By prohibiting self-service in petrol stations as well as vertical integration, we will be protecting a lot of jobs. We will also ensure that through this piece of legislation we promote small businesses as there will be greater opportunities for retailers, especially new entrants, to also get strategic service stations. As Government we also play a role in facilitating the allocation of service stations.

The Bill provides for arbitration. A specific clause has been introduced in the Bill which is aimed at addressing contractual problems between retailers and wholesalers. Because of the imbalance of power, the two-group contracts between dealers and their suppliers have tended to be one-sided and unfair. The Bill provides an avenue for both of these parties to come to an impartial party to scrutinise these agreements. There are transitional arrangements in recognition of the property clause provision in our Constitution. The Bill provides for automatic licensing of all the activities that require licensing and that were undertaken prior to the promulgation of this Bill, provided that such activities comply with the relevant local, provincial and national regulations which were in existence before the Bill came into effect.

Madam Speaker, I hope the members appreciate the complexity of this Bill and the role that the portfolio committee had to play in order to make sure that while they are being even-handed, they are also very decisive. I also want to thank the industry-players for taking a holistic view and ensuring that the different, if not conflicting, demands are also met.

I also want to thank my staff for doing a sterling job in interrogating all the aspects of the Bill and for providing the country with a fair, as well as a balanced framework within which the industry will operate. Thank you very much. [Applause.] Mr M T GONIWE: Chairperson, hon Deputy President and members, the Bill in front of us today is a collective output of the Department of Minerals and Energy, Parliament and key industry stakeholders. It serves as a good example of what is possible if stakeholders put their differences aside and try to find a working solution.

This Bill has been transformed considerably from the original formulation that was presented to the portfolio committee by the department. It benefited immensely from the interactions of key stakeholders during the public hearings.

The Bill replaces the outdated Petroleum Products Act of 1977. It seeks to modernise this Act and bring it in line with the current sociopolitical and economic imperatives of the South African liquid fuels industry and the economy at large. Members will agree that we have made advances since 1977. The Petroleum Charter, for example, was not even in the minds of the legislators of that time. Hence it has become necessary for a Bill such as this to update the shortcomings of 1977 Act. The Bill further gives effect to the empowerment charter of the liquid fuels industry. It creates an enabling environment that will see companies achieve all the commitments they made in November 2000. Conditions of licence, which will be detailed in the regulations, will be promulgated under this amending Bill and will require companies to show and own their commitments to the charter. This Bill is going to make it possible for more black people to own Ultra City-Sized filling stations. It will end the existing discriminatory arrangement inherited from the past which confines blacks to owning marginal sites with very low turnovers.

This Bill seeks to address the frustration of hard-working women such as Mrs Barbara Nonyane from Moletsane in Soweto, who is part of the people who are buckling under the heavy yoke visited on people such as her by unscrupulous suppliers who serve their own parochial interests. The inbuilt arbitration mechanism will enhance the capacity to solve the myriad of complaints the committee and the department receives from dissatisfied operators. The Bill seeks to address the unfavourable business conditions imposed on unsuspecting enthusiastic prospective businesspersons who, for example, will allow big business, through contractual arrangements, a 30 to 60 day payment term for a product they procure. On the other hand, black economic empowerment companies, who can hardly afford to raise start-up capital because banks refuse to give them capital, have to fund their purchases upfront long before they even sell a drop of the product. This skewed kind of dealing will come to an end.

This brings me to the next item I would like to discuss. During the hearings, we were inundated with calls that we need less state intervention and that there is too much ministerial discretion. This depends on which side of the spectrum one stands. I am sure that millions of underprivileged people pin their hopes on this Government and the Minister to intervene on their behalf. Surely, the ANC cannot sit with folded its arms when problems occur in this industry.

The ANC-led Government cannot, clearly, interfere in commercial dealings. This Bill will enable it to use its influence to level the playing field and bring about a balance in the powers of the players. The ANC-led Government cannot sit back and watch South Africans take their hard-earned pension money and throw it into the seemingly bottomless pit called the petroleum retailing industry. It is in this regard that we would like to assure people such as Barbara Nonyane that their cries have been heard.

Lastly, the ANC supports this Bill without reservation. I want to thank all members of the portfolio committee, from all political parties, who sacrificed recess time and processed these Bills. I would like to thank all stakeholders for the useful inputs they made during the public hearings. We would also like to thank our support staff and the departmental officials who have helped us engineer this beautiful piece of legislation. We hope that the Minister continues her good work, because transformation is unstoppable. Amandla! [Applause.] Mr I O DAVIDSON: Chairperson, I referred earlier in the debate on the Petroleum Pipelines Bill to both the complex and anticompetitive nature of the liquid fuels industry as a result of our past.

The establishment of the synfuels industry in South Africa, while holding great benefits, was not without cost. The promotion and protection of synfuel production by way of subsidies, agreements by other oil companies to purchase for resale into the South African economy most of the synfuel production, and the reciprocal agreements by the synfuel producers not to market the balance of their production into defined parts of South Africa had the effect of distorting competition in the liquid fuel industry resulting in the creation of effective monopoly wholesale supplier structures throughout South Africa.

The retail side likewise had constraints placed upon it through restraints and product pricing. Resale price maintenance was enforced as well as margin controls at wholesale and retail levels. It is therefore ironic that, despite all these restraints, it was the retail side of the industry where competition flourished the most. Even this scenario was, however, a distorted scenario as the big oil companies with deep pockets aggressively entered the retail side in order to buy market share. In the process, it squeezed the small man out of the market and it became hopelessly overcrowded.

It is estimated that there are roughly 30% to 35% more petrol stations in South Africa than the market can sustain. As a result, throughput of fuel in most petrol stations is declining and the small retailer is being forced out. Therefore, Government faces continued pressure to up the retail margin in order to salvage the industry.

To make matters worse, Sasol has now indicated its intention of entering the industry, and the industry has committed itself to absorbing new HDSA entrants into that market. The market is therefore set to be more overcrowded and even less viable. The Bill attempts to address this while avoiding what one stakeholder referred to as a bloodbath. Clearly, the industry has to be restructured in a more fundamental way than this Bill envisages. This restructuring has to take place at all levels of the supply chain. We, however, recognise that this cannot be done overnight. Free market forces, in the light of all other constraints, have not been able to play the balancing role. On the contrary, all that has occurred is the continuous upward pressure on the retail margin in order to prevent greater numbers of small retailers going under with consequent job losses.

The Government has set a course of managed liberalisation of the industry. This we endorse. This Bill seeks, during a 10-year transition period, to cap the number of service stations at an industry-viable number. It also seeks to allow market forces to play their role within that environment and, in the process, downsize the industry to economically viable levels while allowing new entrants into the market.

What has to be emphasised is that this 10-year transition period has to be seen as a breathing space for the managed liberalisation process to gather momentum and the industry to be fundamentally restructured. The objective must be to introduce a fully competitive market at all levels of the supply chain.

To achieve this, the Government must address the following: It has to allow for the importation of refined products. It should address the whole question of preferment, on the refining side, of synfuel production as well as the effective monopolies that have emerged in defined areas of South Africa. There should be further competition in the distribution process, and greater freedom in the ability to market products as well as the possibility of discounting, including the use of promotions. The resale price maintenance and margin control at wholesale and retail levels should be done away with.

In seeking to achieve a competitive liquid fuels industry, Government, at a macro level, must seek to optimise competing energy sources, including the promotion and creation of an optimum capacity in, and infrastructure around, each stream such that temporary disruptions in the supply from each stream can sufficiently be substituted with supplies from another stream.

At the micro level, this should be through structuring and restructuring of the liquid fuels distribution infrastructure such that captive dependency on the present refining, supply and distribution capacity is displaced with an optimum range of supply sources. There should be the optimisation of the balance between regulation and application of market principles at all levels of competition within the industry such that market competition becomes the preferred tool for achieving the desired level of efficiency. We support this Bill.

Mr E J LUCAS: Mr Chairperson, the Petroleum Products Act of 1977 was a product of the apartheid government in an effort to counteract international oil sanctions against South Africa. As a result, the Act fostered a highly regulated petroleum industry that was cloaked in secrecy and sanctions-busting subterfuge.

Obviously, the advent of democracy in 1994 and the lifting of economic sanctions against our country meant that the 1977 Act could more or less be consigned to the scrapheap of history. In addition, the White Paper on Energy Policy of 1998 set a brand new policy agenda for the local liquid fuels industry that was in line with the Government’s socioeconomic political-policy imperatives.

In 1998 the adoption of the White Paper quickly led to speculation that Government would totally deregulate the liquid fuels industry. But the reality of the situation is that some of the leftovers of the apartheid era are so entrenched in our national economy and in the vital strategic sector that reregulation was in point of fact the only realistic and workable option.

The Bill before us today represents Government’s attempt at reregulating the liquid fuels industry. In doing so, governance of the industry will centre on a licensing system for refiners, wholesalers and retailers of petroleum products. The licences will be issued by the Controller of Petroleum Products, who will have to keep in mind a number of the objectives that have been written into the Bill.

The objectives include: promoting an efficient comparative retail petroleum industry; facilitating an environment conducive to commercially justifiable investment; promoting the advancement of historically disadvantaged South Africans; creating employment opportunities and the development of small business; and, very importantly, ensuring countrywide availability of petroleum products at competitive prices.

The third of these objectives, namely promoting the advancement of historically disadvantaged South Africans, naturally has the greatest importance for the industry and for black economic empowerment. Some years ago the Government and the oil industry entered into an empowerment charter for the liquid fuel sector. Implementation of the charter is well underway at the ownership and equity level, but the barriers for black companies to enter the heavily over-traded fuel sector remain largely in place and of grave concern to the IFP.

We welcome the fact that the charter has now been written into the Bill by way of a schedule, but we believe that it could have gone further in making access to the retail sector easier and cheaper for new black entrepreneurs.

While it is understandable that the Government will not want to become overly involved in contractual relationships between retailers and wholesalers, and keeping in mind the property right guarantees enshrined in our Constitution, we still believe that a method could have been found to make life easier for new entrants.

The Bill provides for a large measure of discretionary power to the Minister to make regulations over a wide variety of issues, including prohibiting business practices that would negate the objective of advancing historically disadvantaged South Africans. In addition, the Bill provides for the arbitration mechanism that has been significantly straightened by Parliament to ensure that unreasonable and unfair business practices between wholesalers and retailers will be resolved in a final, binding manner. We can only hope that these provisions will protect and advance the interests of newly established black fuel retailers.

Finally, Mr Chairperson, the IFP welcomes the fact that the Bill continues the existing ban on self service at fuel retail sites. In light of South Africa’s very high unemployment rate and sometimes unintended consequences of well-meaning legislation that destroys jobs, this ban will continue to preserve between 45 000 and 60 000 jobs, not to mention the livelihoods of hundreds and thousands of dependants. The IFP will support the Petroleum Products Amendment Bill.

Mrs B TINTO: Mr Chairperson, Minister, Deputy Minister and hon members, the Petroleum Products Amendment Bill seeks to bring the petroleum industry in line with the socioeconomic developments that have taken place in the country. [Interjections.] Keep quiet! It aims at, among other things, fostering the entry of small firms, protecting the jobs of petrol attendants and ensuring the availability of petroleum products at competitive prices.

The objective of the Bill is to provide for licensing of manufacturers and for selling of petroleum products to promote transformation of the liquid fuels industry through the advancement of historically disadvantaged South Africans, black people in particular.

Section 2(b) of the Bill prohibits self service at retail outlets, thereby helping to protect the attendants’ jobs. These people need to be protected as their lives are sometimes at stake. Some garages are open 24 hours a day and these men and women face dangers by working day and night. If the Government introduces self-service at service stations siya kuba sandisa intswelo-misebenzi [we will be adding to the unemployment].

Mr M T GONIWE: Kunjalo. [That is true.]

Mrs B TINTO: At present the retail market is already saturated. The issuing of licences must promote the advancement of historically disadvantaged South Africans and the development of small businesses.

Iigaraji zabantu abamnyama zisoloko zincinci, zisondelelene. Loo nto yenza ukuba kungabikho nzuzo. Kambe nabo abantu abamnyama mabasincede ngoba kwiigaraji zabo asifumani nkonzo intle. Sifuna ukuba abantu abamnyama babe ngabanini beegaraji ezibizwa ngelokuba zii`Ultra City’kwakunye neegaraji ezinkulu, nabo mabazame ukuba abasebenzi babaphathe ngendlela. [Uwelewele.]

Abanye abantu abaneegaraji kwiilokishi zethu baqesha yonke le mihla. Xa ufika kule garaji ubacele aba bantu ukuba bakugalelele amanzi emotweni okanye baqwalasele umlinganiselo weoli, abakwazi, ngenxa yokuba abalufumani uqeqesho. Ngoko, noxa uRhulumente ebanceda abantu abamnyama, ebaphakamisa, nabo mabazi ukuba banoxanduva abanalo. Mabangajongi inzuzo kuphela. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Petrol stations run by black people are always small and in close proximity to one another. That reduces the chance of making a profit. Black people should also give proper service to their customers. We would like to see black people owning retail outlets like Ultra City or just big petrol stations, but they must also try to render a good service and treat people in a hospitable manner. [Interjections.]

Some people who have retail outlets in our communities or in the townships employ new staff every day. When you get to a petrol station and request that water and oil be checked, you will find that the people that are supposed to serve you do not know how to do that because they do not get the necessary training. The Government may be doing all they can to uplift and empower black people, but they should know that they themselves have a responsibility. They should not only look at making a profit.] This Bill seeks to extend the Minister’s power to make regulations. The Minister will be able to prohibit business practices that are in conflict with the objectives of the Bill. I am happy that we have with us here captains of the oil industry as well as the lifeblood of this industry; the drivers of bulk carriers that deliver petrol, diesel and other petroleum products every day. Sometimes they work day and night or throughout the weekend. The petroleum companies should also listen to their cry for empowerment. They only need empowerment.

Regrettably, Minister, the South African Petroleum and Liquid Fuels Charter does not specifically refer to the empowerment of women. This is a major weakness which needs urgent attention by the department and the oil companies. It must include shareholding opportunities, procurement and skills development. The ANC supports the Bill. [Applause.]

Mr B M DOUGLAS: Chair, the Bill before us today is, according to Dr Crompton of the Department of Minerals and Energy, ``intended to do renovations to the current Bill, not to build a new building or to engage new designs or architecture’’. It is my humble view that this Bill is revolutionary and very progressive.

I wanted to venture into the Competition Commission’s argument that the restrictions, or vertical integration, according to some studies, do not necessarily promote the entry of small business firms because certain cost barriers or advantages the incumbent firms might have over new entrants could be related to information, industrial knowledge, access to product supplies, technology proximity and brand loyalty.

I think I should rather focus my presentation on the charter because I have been one of the most vocal, sometimes very churlish, sometimes very unnecessary - the Chair would shut me up when I got to the area of the historically disadvantaged South Africans. Indeed the charter, in its aims, envisages securing 25% of equity ownership for historically disadvantaged South Africans over a 10-year period. I think some of us must have heard the misinterpretation from Mr Mark Lowe, that there will be a cutback in BEE companies over 10 years. Maybe he should reread the whole story.

Many companies were starting to scream loud hosannas to themselves, having achieved the 25% mark. But then, when one looked at the actual economic value owned by black partners - and the commission spoke about this, last week - it was less than 70%, even though Mr Colin McClelland, the Chairman of the SA Petroleum Industry Association, sketched a very rosy picture. He mentioned the fact that Engen sold 20% of its business to Worldwide African Investment Holdings, Shell sold 25% to Thebe, BP sold 25% of its business and Sasol is intending to effect a 25% sell-off. One just hopes that there won’t be any casualties when a close scrutiny diagnoses something different to the cases I have just mentioned.

Voorsitter, dan is daar ook nog sake wat sê dat ``4 700 vulstasies landwyd’’ meer as genoeg is. Sommige verkoop minder as 100 000 liter per maand teen ‘n winsgrens van sowat 20 sent per liter of minder, terwyl dit onder ‘n bruto wins van R15 000 voor alle bedryfs- en kapitaalkostes staan. Kleiner vulstasies ding moeilik mee met ‘n nuwe soort vulstasie wat ‘n kafee en motorwasgeriewe het. Ons dink aan die platteland byvoorbeeld, en die townships wat vulstasies sommer bo-op mekaar het, wat deur wetgewing verbied word, deur ‘n motorherstelbaai daar te stel, soos in die verlede. Baie van laasgenoemde sit nou in diep skuld.

Die woelinge in Engen is ‘n goeie voorbeeld hiervan. Van sy 65 vulstasies, waarvan 42 swart bemagtiging-vulstasies is, en die vorige onttrekking van Engen van finansiële hulp, as EFG Financial Services, vir swart bemagtiging in 2002, sê Mnr Grant Fincham van EFG: (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, then there are also businesses that say that ``4 700 filling stations countrywide’’ is more than enough. Some sell less than 100 000 litres per month at a profit margin of about 20 cents per litre or less, while they are under a gross profit of R15 000 before all operation and capital costs. Smaller filling stations have difficulties competing with the new kind of filling station that has a café and car-washing facilities. We are thinking of the rural areas, for example, and the townships that have filling stations right next to one another, which is prohibited by legislation, by having car repair bays, as in the past. Many of these are now deep in debt.

The turbulence in Engen is a good example of this. Of its 65 filling stations, of which 42 are black empowerment filling stations, and the former withdrawal of Engen’s financial assistance, as EFG Financial Services, for black empowerment in 2002, Mr Grant Fincham of EFG said:]

This precipitated a cash flow crisis. Total loan book liabilities at EFG stand at around R55m. Of this, roughly R40m is attributable to the 42 Engen operators financed by EFG.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, your speaking time has expired.

Mr B M DOUGLAS: Let me just conclude then, for lack of time. It bothers one, Minister, that every now and then retailers urge you to increase the retail margins.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon member, your speaking time has expired.

Mr B M DOUGLAS: Is it not time that a forensic audit of some particular forecourt sellers was done, because many of them don’t even have a semblance of bookkeeping these days?

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Order! Hon member, you are well over time.

Mr A BLAAS: Chairperson, although these amendments do not make for an eloquent Act, it will be supported by the ACDP. It is supported because it is an effort to start a deregulating process and allow access to the industry in a complex environment where vested interests and conflicts of stakeholders result in deadlocks.

The Department of Minerals and Energy had to take the initiative to get the process going. Of concern, however, is the excessive regulatory powers that are given to the executive, where these matters actually should be exposed to the scrutiny of a full parliamentary process.

Capping of sites and retail licences, although necessary, could lead to increased cost and consequently put pressure on fuel prices to the detriment of the consumer. The fuel industry is complex. The question is to regulate or not to regulate; or how far to regulate. Either way, some will gain and some will lose.

These amendments, if handled responsibly, can set the process going to find an acceptable compromise and we thus support it.

Miss S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, the MF notes the need to update the petroleum products legislation to bring it in line with the sociopolitical and economic dynamics of current South Africa. Proper management of liquid fuel will be maintained by ensuring that the Government’s policy is adhered to.

The MF strongly supports a charter for the South African petroleum and liquid fuel industry, and the empowerment of historically disadvantaged South Africans in the petroleum and liquid fuel industry. The control of licensing that the Bill suggests is supported by the MF, as this would ensure the proper management and maintenance of the industry.

The provisions are adequate and the authorisation awarded to the Minister of Minerals and Energy in terms of licensing is supported. It is hoped that the provisions that this Bill establishes will be beneficial for the economy in terms of the costs of liquid fuels.

With the high cost of living and the burden of taxing petrol prices on our citizenry, it is hoped that the Minister’s involvement in the decision of costs would be beneficial to society. The MF supports the Petroleum Products Amendment Bill.

Mr G G OLIPHANT: Chairperson, comrades and colleagues, our Constitution provides for a transparent, effective and accountable government at all levels. This Parliament today concluded the Petroleum Pipelines Bill which establishes the National Regulatory Framework and the National Petroleum Pipelines Regulatory Authority as a custodian and enforcer of the national regulatory frameworks.

The pipelines are a major vehicle used to transport petroleum products from refineries to the consumer and crude oil to the inland refineries for further processing. This brings to an end the veil of secrecy which characterised this industry for over 20 years.

The Petroleum Products Amendment Bill is intended to, amongst others, promote the transformation of the South African petroleum and liquid fuels industry and authorise the Minister to make specific regulations. The major products consumed in our domestic economy are 51,8% petrol, 31% diesel, 9,8% jet fuel, 4,3% kerosene, 2,8% liquid petroleum gas and 0,1% for both heavy fuel oil and aviation gas.

Let me take this opportunity, hon members, to thank all stakeholders in the liquid fuel industry for the availability of petrol, diesel and other products at our service stations at all times and almost everywhere in our country.

We have approximately 6 million vehicles moving on South African roads serviced by about 4 900 service stations throughout the country. This translates into between 40 000 and 50 000 jobs for petrol attendants. As has been said, this Bill specifically prohibits self service in order to protect these jobs.

The impending entry of Sasol and PetroSA into the retail sector presents the Department of Minerals and Energy with interesting challenges to ensure continued security of supply, preserve existing jobs and create new ones while also avoiding the unnecessary proliferation of service stations.

While both Government and the oil companies work towards promoting efficiency in this industry, we must avoid the temptation of mass closures of service stations in the rural areas as this will have adverse effects on the lives of rural communities and undermine our proud record of nationwide availability of fuels.

This Bill also gives legal standing to the Liquid Fuel Charter entered into between Government and industry players in November 2000. We wish to encourage the continued implementation of this empowerment and expedite the entry of blacks and women into this industry.

We, however, regret that petrol attendants, drivers and other disadvantaged groups in this industry are not specifically targeted for empowerment in the charter. We, therefore, urge that the Department of Trade and Industry and other stakeholders give urgent attention to this matter.

We further propose the establishment of an industry score card and the strengthening and monitoring of the evaluation process. The empowerment evaluation committee under the leadership of the Minister of Minerals and Energy therefore needs to be supported and strengthened.

The intended policy direction of Government to phase out leaded petrol by January 2006 presents industry with both opportunities and challenges. We urge you therefore to handle this matter responsibly and with absolute sensitivity. This matter will have a positive impact on our environment and the health and safety of our communities.

We wish the Minister well in implementing this law and also wish to thank other political parties for supporting this law.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Mr Chairperson, Deputy Minister and hon members …

… maqabane, ndifuna ukugxininisa ukuze ndiqonde okokuba niyibambile le nto yalo Mthetho oYilwayo, okokuba uza kwenza abantu bethu bafumane iigaraji ezindaweni ezingconwana, hayi ezise koneni. Bafumane ezi ultra City', eziya ndawo esihamba khona sibaninzi kunye neentsapho zethu, sithenge kakhulu, ukwenzela into yokuba nabo bakwazi ukushishina ngendlela engcono. Ke ndithanda into yokuba niyipapashe le ngxelo apha kwiiconstituecy’ zenu.

Lo Mthetho oYilwayo ubalulekile emaphandleni kuba uza kwenza sibe nakho ukuncedisa nabantu abasematyotyombeni abasebenzisa iparafini, sibakhuphe kwiparafini, basebenzise iLPG esiza kuyilungiselela ngamaxabiso ayo, ngenxa yokuba iparafini iyabatshisa abantwana. Ezibhedlela, apha kumagumbi eentsana, abantwana abaninzi abagcwele phaya ngabantwana basematyotyombeni abathe batsha. Ke sizama ukukhawulelana nelo shwangusha esijongene nalo. Ke naloo nto siyafuna ukuba nisincedise ukuze yaziwe. Nempatho egadalala yabantu abasezigaraji siyazama ukuyilungiselela nayo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[… comrades, I want to emphasise this so that I may accept understand that you have captured the essence of this Bill, that it will enable our people to own service stations in better areas, and not in corners, and enable them to own ``Ultra Cities’’ - those places we go to in large numbers together with our families and where we buy a lot - so that they can also do better business. So I would like you to announce this in your constituencies.

This Bill is important in the rural areas because it will enable us to help even the people in the squatter camps who use paraffin, and dissuade them from the use of paraffin and introduce them to LPG, of which we are going to modify the price, because paraffin burns the children. At hospitals, in the children’s wards, among the many children hospitalised, there are those from the squatter camps who have been burnt. So we are trying to combat that misfortune that we are facing. So we want you to assist in order that this is also known. Also, the ill-treatment of people who work at service stations, is something we are trying to sort out.]

The Deputy Minister had a workshop with women in retail a week ago where some of these issues were raised. One of the issues raised was the issue of training of retailers so that they do much better in managing their petrol stations than they do now. We are also capturing that in this Bill and we would obviously be working very hard together with the oil companies, as well as with the relevant Seta to address that issue of training because it disadvantages them.

Ke, sele nivile ke okokuba nalo mqulu wethu weenkampani ze-oli sasiwenze nje ngaphandle kwesiseko somthetho. Ngoku, siyenza ibe nomthetho wayo ukuze babenakho ukukwazi, abantu abenzelwa wona, ukuphucuka (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[So you have already heard that even the charter of the oil companies was just drawn up without a legal basis. We are now drawing up a legal basis so that the people for whom it is drawn up will be able to progress.]

I have noted the complaint of the comrades about both drivers and retailers in the whole broad framework of empowerment.

Nawe PetroSA kuza kufuneka ubone okokuba wenza njani ngale nto ekhoyo apha. [You too, PetroSA, will have to find ways to adapt to what is in here.]

We have also raised concerns about the fact that we need to allow imports of refined products. You need to note, hon members, that the refineries that we have in South Africa have invested a lot of money and would still invest more. If we were to be careless and allow imports, within a short space of time, we would potentially create a crisis in the investment and I am sure we do not want that. I hope you can bear with us because we cannot do that.

Then there is the issue of the retail price maintenance. It is important for us also to continue to pay attention to that because in the rural areas … … apho abantu abathenga ipetrol bebambalwa. Xa sinokungayenzi loo nto ipetrol iza kunyuka kakhulu emaphandleni. Ke kuyafuneka sibe nayo indlela yokuba amaxabiso siwagcine kumgangatho othile, kuba xa sinokuyeka nje ipetrol iza kubiza kakhulu kuba iye ingabizizo iindleko kakhulu xa abantu abaninzi bethenga. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[… there are few people who buy petrol. If we do not do this, the price of petrol will be astronomical in the rural areas. So it is necessary for us to have a way of keeping prices at a certain level, because if we are simply at ease, the petrol price will take a hike because it isn’t so expensive when many people buy it.]

But if you are selling in an area where you don’t have volumes, then the chances are that those costs will be passed on to the consumers.

I also want to assure members that we will also be looking at sustainability of the empowerment that the different parties have entered into. Since the charter is now law, there has to be sustainable empowerment as mentioned in the charter. In scrutinising the deals with the evaluation committee, part of what we are looking at is to ensure that these deals do not go bust in 10 years when the period of the charter ends. So, we want to address the issue of sustainability of those deals now, so that we can work together to make sure that we protect all the parties concerned.

I thank everybody, especially in view of the fact that all the parties have voted for this Bill and I look forward to the transformation of this industry. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill read a second time.

    CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND
   CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT ON CRIMINAL PROCEDURE AMENDMENT BILL

Report adopted without debate. CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF PORTFOLIO COMMITTEE ON JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT ON PROMOTION OF NATIONAL UNITY AND RECONCILIATION AMENDMENT BILL

Report adopted without debate.

  CRIMINAL PROCEDURE AMENDMENT BILL PROMOTION OF NATIONAL UNITY AND
                    RECONCILIATION AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

The MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Chairperson, the debate is about two Bills, as has been read out by the Secretary, namely the Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill of 2003 and the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Amendment Bill of 2003.

I’ll start with the first one, namely the Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill of 2003. Its main object is to introduce a sifting mechanism that will prevent the High Courts from being overburdened by unmeritorious appeals from the lower courts. The Bill attempts to achieve this by introducing the requirement that leave to appeal should be obtained, whilst taking care to avoid the constitutional pitfalls that invalidated the previous leave to appeal procedure, as set out in the judgment of the Constitutional Court in the case of State v Steyn, 2001(1) SA 1146.

Following this judgment, I instructed my department to establish a monitoring mechanism so as to determine the impact of the automatic right of appeal on the administration of justice. A survey was instituted in order to collect data on the number of appeals against decisions of the lower courts received by the High Courts for a 12-month period - from June 2001 to May 2002. It became clear to us that the High Courts would, in the absence of a filtering mechanism, be faced with an ever-increasing backlog of appeals. The interests of justice demand that a matter should be concluded without any undue delay and the old adage that ``justice delayed is justice denied’’ applies.

The main problem lies in the fact that a large number of appeals are completely without merit. But, it is just as costly and time-consuming to deal with such appeals as it is to deal with appeals in which there are reasonable possibilities that they might be upheld. The vast majority of interested parties who were approached for comment supported the introduction of a filtering mechanism by way of a legislative amendment.

The amendments further aim to provide that certain appeals against decisions by the lower courts and the High Courts relating to children may be noted without having to apply for leave to appeal; and, finally, that appeals must, as a rule, be considered on the written argument of the parties.

I now come to the second Bill, namely the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Amendment Bill of 2003, which aims to make provision for the following matters:

The recommendation made by the hon President Mbeki on 15 April 2003 in this House, namely that reparations should not only be paid to individual victims but also towards the rehabilitation of communities; allowing for funds or property which by way of trust, donation or bequest vest in, or accrue to, the President’s Fund to be paid directly from that fund; complying with an order made by the Cape High Court to the effect that I have to establish a subcommittee on amnesty to consider certain particular cases of amnesty anew; and the correction of erroneous publications made in terms of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act, Act 34 of 1995.

The TRC and the various committees thereof were designed to be operative for a limited period, whereafter the TRC was dissolved. It was never intended that the TRC should have permanent status or existence. I am nonetheless charged with complying with an order handed down by the Cape High Court, in that I have to establish a subcommittee on amnesty to hear certain applications for amnesty anew. Accordingly, the Bill allows for a committee on amnesty, or a subcommittee thereof, to be convened where a court gives an order to that effect, or where a settlement is reached pursuant to pending litigation.

This can only be done in respect of an application for amnesty that was previously dealt with by the Committee on Amnesty. An amnesty committee cannot be resurrected beyond this purpose. The Bill also makes provision for the consequences flowing from the work of a newly appointed amnesty committee, namely the establishment of other committees that may be needed to deal with the identification of victims, reparations, and so forth.

It is necessary to mention that the provisions relating to matters dealt with previously by the Committee on Amnesty were not included in the Bill as originally introduced. Our attention was drawn to these matters only after the introduction of the Bill. The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development, as we have become accustomed to, has dealt with the issue in the same comprehensive manner that it is by now renowned for. The same committee has also devoted an extraordinary amount of time and energy to the Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill. I extend my sincere gratitude to the chairperson, the hon Adv Johnny de Lange, and all the committee members for their hard work in this regard. I thank you. [Applause.]

Adv J H DE LANGE: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, I rise in unconditional support of the amendments to the Criminal Procedure Act that gives effect to the judgment of the Constitutional Court in the Steyn matter, as well as the amendments to the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act, better known as the TRC Act.

I commence by thanking all those who have made it possible for these Bills to be processed through Parliament. I’m thinking here particularly of the employees of the department, namely Advocates du Preez, de Lange, Gordon and Rudman. To all the parties in the Justice committee, I want to thank you very much, once again, for working so diligently on these Bills - in fact one of them for a very long time - and for unanimously supporting the amendments. Both these pieces of legislation are of vital importance and transformative in nature. When the amendments to the TRC Act were introduced, there were just two technical matters that had to be dealt with, probably two loopholes in the original Act that only came to the fore once the TRC process had been concluded. The first was that the TRC Act, and therefore the regulations, only allowed for reparations to be paid to individuals and not to communities. Therefore, the Act had to be amended to provide specifically that community reparations could also be paid from the President’s Fund, which in turn allows us now to draft regulations to allow for this possibility.

I am very happy to inform you that, as far as individual reparations are concerned, those regulations are already available and have been promulgated. Once this Bill is passed through the two Houses, then the regulations for community reparations can also be dealt with. So, that was the first matter we dealt with.

The second matter was that the Act does not provide that donations into the President’s Fund should be dealt with in accordance with the conditions in respect of which those donations were made to the fund. The Bill provides for a small amendment to provide for this.

After the introduction of this Act, two further matters came to the fore. Two problems have arisen in practice because of the TRC processes and the TRC Commission now having been abolished. These matters were dealt with by the Justice committee and amendments have been provided for.

The first concerns a matter regarding decisions of the Committee on Amnesty, particularly where decisions were made not to grant amnesty in a particular case. Some of those decisions have been challenged in our courts. I can specifically mention the Nieuwoudt judgment which was a judgment of the Cape High Court where the honourable Judge Davis, on behalf of the majority, gave a judgment where they overturned the decision of the Committee on Amnesty not to grant amnesty and ordered that this matter be reheard.

The issue of the alleged bias of the Committee on Amnesty was also raised during the court case. The honourable judges did not make a decision in this regard because it was not necessary. They, however, pointed out that the appointment of a new committee that would deal with this complaint as it would pre-empt any further complaints of bias, although no decision was made in this regard. So, that was the first issue that we had to deal with.

The second issue which was of a more technical nature was that it appeared that a particular victim had been reflected as ``deceased’’ in the final report of the TRC commission. In dealing with this matter we were very careful not to suggest solutions of processes which could create any perception or allow for any allegation to be made that the TRC process and the finalisation of the report were now being tinkered with politically. Therefore, we did not want to suggest any procedures to allow any process to be overturned or to reopen issues dealt with by the TRC Commission.

The way in which we have dealt with this issue is to very clearly provide in the Bill that if there has been a court decision referring a particular matter back to TRC and, because the TRC doesn’t exist anymore, we have given the Minister certain powers to act within very narrow parameters, in its stead. For example - in this instance regarding amnesty - to allow him to create a particular committee which will have the same powers as the Committee on Amnesty, to process the matter anew. So, within a very narrowly defined area we have granted the Minister limited powers but only where there has been prior judicial intervention.

Then, a further issue arose: But, what happens if further victims are identified during the rehearing of the amnesty application? We then provided that for those purposes, and I emphasise ``only for those purposes’’, the Minister has the further power to create a committee that will have the same powers as the Reparations and Rehabilitation Committee, as well as a committee that will have the same powers as the Human Rights Violations Committee to process that particular victim who was identified in this rehearing of the amnesty committee.

So, what the newspapers reported over the weekend - that we have now passed legislation to allow for those victims who were not identified and declared as victims during the TRC process, to now come forward and be dealt with - is completely incorrect. That possibility is clearly not allowed in the legislation. And, we would not do so for all the reasons given at the time when the TRC Report was discussed.

As far as the matter of the deceased person is concerned - who in fact isn’t deceased - we have passed a resolution to ask the Minister to deal with this matter as far as he possibly can, administratively. If he can’t deal with it, administratively, then the department should approach the courts to make sure that the courts rectify the matter. This is, of course, to be done at Government’s expense because it is not that person’s fault that this has happened. Again, we have tried to keep the principle alive that if there are problems with the TRC process, those problems should be dealt with through court interventions as far as possible, to ensure that there is no debate or argument or allegation that a political process is now trying to undo what was done in the TRC process.

The second Bill is the Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill. This is an absolutely vital piece of legislation for the effective functioning of our courts, particularly over the last while where our courts have started to build up tremendous backlogs in terms of appeal cases at the High Court level. As you know, in our Constitution it’s clearly provided that each person has the right to a fair trial, which includes the right to appeal. But, just like any other right in the Constitution, that right is not absolute. It can be limited in terms of the criteria and principles contained in the limitation clause, to allow for the same kind of limitations which can be placed on appeals as exist in most other democratic societies.

The history of this legislation is, of course, that at the lower court level, until approximately 1995-96, we have always had an automatic right of appeal. I am not going to go into all the details. But, after the Ntuli and the Rens judgments, where similar matters were dealt with, we then introduced at a lower court level a leave-to-appeal procedure.

This legislation was then taken to the Constitutional Court and its constitutionality was challenged. Although the specific constitutionality of the leave-to-appeal procedure did not come up for decision in that judgment, what the court did find was that we did not specifically spell out in the legislation that when a leave of appeal matter is dealt with by a Higher Court, the record of the lower court must also be sent to the Higher Court, and, therefore, that the possibility exists that some accused may fall through the cracks. To that extent, we would be violating their right of appeal. To avoid this possibility, they found that the legislation was flawed to that extent. Those procedural aspects had to be dealt with, quite clearly, by Parliament.

The order of invalidity of the court was then suspended and the department was allowed to correct the legislation and provide for a leave to appeal procedure. The department did not do so because it felt that there was a need to collect empirical evidence in order to be able to show why there was a need to limit this right. This problem was specifically one of the issues which was highlighted in the judgment, namely that the department had not placed this evidence before court. Therefore, before a procedure like this was reintroduced, this empirical evidence had to be gathered first so that we could be sure that it did exist before we introduced such a leave-to-appeal procedure. We have now done so after extensively discussing this matter especially after referring it back to the judges and magistrates, and receiving their comments in respect of the legislation. Hopefully, this legislation will now deal with all those problems. I am quite positive that it will meet any constitutional challenge.

A few aspects of the legislation which I think are important to mention are as follows. Firstly, we have, to a large extent, harmonised the leave-to- appeal procedure between the High Courts and the lower courts. Although it cannot be completely the same, to a large extent we have done so. Secondly, one the innovations in the legislation is that we have retained the right of appeal, both in the High and lower courts, for certain children. I am not going to elaborate on this issue. Ms Chohan-Khota will particularly deal with it, except to say that one must also take note of the fact that in dealing with the Child Justice Bill we are, further, also amending section 302 of the Criminal Procedure Act, which allows for an automatic review of certain cases of unrepresented children. These innovations in the end amount to all unrepresented children facing a term of imprisonment, either having an automatic right of review or an automatic right to appeal. These are some of the innovations that we have provided for in the legislation. Thirdly, because of an intervention of the Chief Justice during our budget hearings, we have also made a further amendment regarding the fact that, previously, this legislation provided that each appeal that went to the High Courts would always be dealt with by way of an oral hearing. What we have provided for now is the converse, by providing that each appeal that goes to the High Court will be dealt with in Chambers, except if the High Court provides otherwise. Therefore, the High Courts will now have the power to actually allow those appeals to be dealt with in oral hearings where there is a further need to air some of the issues in the case. However, regarding those appeals that have been sifted out, where judges have read the records and feel that there is no grounds for appeal, leave to appeal will then be turned down, or if leave to appeal was granted but an oral argument is not necessary it will be heard in chambers.

The honourable Judge Kriegler had certain problems with the Bill, which I am not going to deal with in detail. The problems that he had raised pertained to appeals of poor persons who do not have high levels of education. He felt that these processes provided for in the Bill are far too complex and that, at the end of the day, some people will fall through the cracks. What we have done to solve this problem is to create a procedural right in the legislation whereby these persons will always be given an opportunity to apply for legal aid.

Lastly, we just want to say that we also had the department placing an implementation plan before us to make sure that they can argue this case if it comes before the courts again. We have been relatively happy with the amount of work done in this regard. I want to thank everyone for making the passing of these pieces of legislation possible. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mrs S M CAMERER: Deputy Speaker, I will be dealing with the Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill. First, the DA has no hesitation in supporting this amending Bill. The principal aim of the Bill is, as the chairperson of our committee has said, to reintroduce a filter or sifting mechanism between the magistrates courts and the High Courts in respect of criminal appeals against conviction and sentence.

Currently, because of the 2000 Constitutional Court judgment in Steyn versus the State every accused person convicted in the magistrates court has an automatic right of appeal to the High Court, as the Constitutional Court ruled in the so-called Steyn judgment that the provisions of sections 309B and 309C of the Criminal Procedure Act are unconstitutional. This has been having a substantial impact on the workload of the High Courts and some courts are completely bogged down with appeals and with large backlogs developing.

The Department of Justice has been monitoring the impact of the automatic right of appeal on the administration of justice since it came into being in June 2001 until November last year, covering six quarters of the High Court schedule. During that period the High Courts dealt with 6 609 appeals. The survey indicated that the lower courts are noting 35% more appeals than the High Courts are able to deal with. The survey found that the Bloemfontein High Court, which accounts for seven per cent of all appeals, has the most severe problems of all courts, in terms of increasing numbers of pending appeals, which increased from 74 to 405 during that period. Significantly, the survey also clearly demonstrated the number of worthless appeals. During this period they climbed dramatically. Appeals dismissed by the High Courts increased by an enormous 266% from 188 in the the first quarter monitored, to 689 in the sixth quarter.

Saturation point has been reached in terms of the capacity of the courts and the wisdom of sifting out appeals with no merit is clear. In the course of the portfolio committee’s oversight visits to the High Courts around the country in May, vociferous complaints about the situation were received and so we are very pleased to be able to support this amending legislation.

The Bill reintroduces, as the chairperson of the committee has said, leave to appeal and petition procedures which, it is hoped, will pass constitutional muster as a result of numerous technical amendments. He has indicated a few of these, for instance, a transcribed case record must be submitted in respect of an application for leave to appeal where the application is heard by a magistrate other than the magistrate who heard the case - rather than just the judgment as before; an aspect specifically criticised in the Steyn judgment. Also a magistrate who refuses an application for leave to appeal must record his or her reasons for doing so.

There are other reasons to support this Bill. It is a reforming piece of legislation. The amended section 309 has created new rights for unrepresented accused both in terms of access to legal representation and the requirement that these rights be explained by the presiding officer to the unrepresented accused. It also excludes children from the requirement of applying for leave to appeal, as indicated by hon De Lange.

The committee ably assisted by Johan de Lange of the department worked long and hard to try and eliminate the possibility of appeals and petitions with no merit, while at the same time avoiding the constitutional pitfalls set out in the Constitutional Court’s judgment in Steyn v the State. Only time will tell whether we succeeded. Certain possible problems pointed out by former Constitutional Court Judge Kriegler at the eleventh hour were also taken into account and certain clauses in the Bill were reworked as a consequence. We do hope we succeeded and we support the Bill.

As far as the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Amendment Bill is concerned, the DA will be supporting this Bill as well. My colleague the hon Dene Smuts will deal particularly with the issues around the power of the Minister and the department to correct mistakes, in particular as this relates to the identification of victims.

This Bill follows on the decision of the National Assembly based on the recommendations of the ad hoc committee on the President’s proposals for paying reparations to victims identified by the TRC. The main amendment in this Bill needed to comply with the decision to allow payments from the President’s Fund towards the rehabilitation of communities. This amends section 42 of the 1995 Act by the addition of the following subsection:

There shall be paid from the Fund all amounts payable by way of reparations towards the rehabilitation of communities in terms of regulations made by the President.

The necessity for this amendment makes it so very clear that the initial concept of the TRC was predicated on individual admissions of guilt, and individual applications of amnesty, victims being identified by that process and reparation being made to those individual victims. But in the five years that have elapsed between the time of the publication of the TRC’s report and this amendment to the Act which has gone hand in hand with the one-off payment of R30 000 to each of these identified victims, these concepts have became blurred and transmuted into other ideas by the ruling party.

No doubt all the ANC speakers in this debate will rush to defend the idea of community reparations and symbolic reparations. Although we have no option but to support the Bill, necessitated as it was by the decision of this Parliament and while we have no problem with community reparations as such, we remain convinced that the way matters have panned out is no doubt unfair to certain individuals who suffered greatly and who are in need of special assistance.

The other aspects of the Bill providing that the Minister may appoint so- called subcommittees to carry out any residual TRC work, though cumbersome, are probably realistic, for instance if, as a result of a court action, an amnesty application or any matter incidental to an amnesty application must be dealt with. This subcommittee will be chaired by a judge - which is reassuring.

Similarly, subcommittees can be appointed by the Minister to deal with human rights and reparations issues arising from any such applications. The Bill provides that the Minister has the power to correct errors in notices, proclamations or other publications, excluding the final report. We have no problem with that and the DA supports the Bill.

Mr T E VEZI: Deputy Speaker, the Act of Parliament, in 1995, that created the Truth and Reconciliation Commission process quoted the 1993 interim Constitution by declaring boldly that the pursuit of national unity, the wellbeing of all South African citizens and peace required reconciliation between the people of South Africa and the reconstruction of society.

Much progress has been made in that regard and the final report of the TRC has been tabled in Parliament and a debate was held on the President’s recommendations flowing from that report. Yet, there are still some loose ends, if they may be called that, that need to be tied up. One of these relate to the rehabilitation of entire communities, rather than just individual victims, as originally provided for in the 1995 TRC Act.

It is a well-known fact that many of the victims of apartheid did not participate in the TRC process and could therefore not qualify for reparations of any kind. Yet, there are many thousands of victims collectively in communities that suffered under apartheid to some extent or other. A mechanism to relieve their plight is obviously needed and the IFP supports the idea of rehabilitating communities as a means of achieving wider coverage of victims.

The amending Bill before us seeks to facilitate the community rehabilitation process. Very importantly, it provides for a broadening of the definition of victims to include the community at large, thus enabling payments from the President’s Fund towards the rehabilitation of the communities. This will be done through funding from Government and hopefully substantial donations from the private sector. The responsibility for payments for rehabilitation projects, financial controls and accountability would be vested in the President’s Fund.

The IFP supports these amendments but wants to stress that the community rehabilitation projects should not become a political football, and decisions on these projects should be elevated above party politics and be made strictly on an apolitical basis. Furthermore, it is absolutely vital that the communities in question be consulted extensively about intended projects so that they may buy into them and be fully committed to them.

Finally, it has come to light that the TRC’s final report contains classification errors relating to the life status of certain victims. The Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development has recommended to this House that the Minister should be requested to instruct the department to apply to a High Court for correction of the incorrect classifications and that should more technical errors be discovered, these should also may be corrected through the judicial process. The IFP supports both of these recommendations and will therefore support the amending Bill.

The Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill essentially aims to reinstate the leave to appeal and petition procedures that were originally contained in the 1977 principal Act. These procedures regulate appeals against the decisions of lower courts but were invalidated by the Constitutional Court in the so-called Steyn judgment in 2001. Importantly, the amending Bill reintroduces the provision for an application for leave to appeal in the Magistrates Court and the petition procedures in the High Court. The Act provides that an accused person may apply orally for leave to appeal once a magistrate has made a decision or an order after a conviction. The IFP supports this reinstatement, as we believe it is in the interests of justice and would facilitate the administration of justice in the South African court system.

However, the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development discovered that Rule 67 of the Rules of Court derived from the Magistrates’ Court Act of 1944 did not provide for an instance where an accused person applies orally for leave to appeal and that an investigation by the Department of Justice would be required to see if the Rule needed to be amended. The committee requested the department to report to Parliament before 28 November 2003. The IFP supports this request and supports the adoption of this amending Bill.

Ms F I CHOHAN-KHOTA: Deputy Speaker, hon members, the amendments that the Portfolio Committee on Justice and Constitutional Development are proposing today may certainly be described as newer, as in introducing a newer system of appeals and reviews for our courts.

There are, however, some enormously innovative elements to this Bill, and I wish to deal with some of them in my speech. The first of these elements involves the manner in which we treat children in trouble with the law. South Africa, together with the progressive community of nations, is committed to treating children differently within the criminal justice system.

It is a matter of importance, if we are committed to building a better future and developing a more caring society, that emphasis should be placed on rehabilitation, restitution and nonrecidivism when dealing with our children. The Child Justice Bill, currently before the portfolio committee, promises to herald a new era for our criminal justice system in this regard.

The Constitutional Court in the case of Steyn v the State erased the concept of leave to appeal and, with this provision and for the reasons spelt out by the chairperson in his speech, we reintroduce the procedure in this Bill. We, however, make an exception for children: children who are under the age of 14 years at the time they committed an offence, or children who are between the ages of 14 and 16 years who were unrepresented at the time of their conviction and who were sentenced to any form of imprisonment may note an appeal without having to apply for leave to appeal.

We also provide for an automatic review procedure for children, which we intend extending in the Child Justice Bill before us at the moment. It is a mark of a caring society that treats its most vulnerable subjects with grace and compassion.

Another new feature of this Bill is how the procedure for leave to appeal and indeed appeals themselves are redefined. Approximately R40 million is spent annually on transcription of court records for appeals. This is a grossly inflated sum of money and we believe an unnecessary waste of scarce resources. The new provisions state that in leave-to-appeal procedures the transcript of the whole record of the trial will no longer be required, except if the application is heard by a magistrate other than the one who heard the case initially. This will, in any case, be an exceptional and not a usual occurrence.

The Bill provides that in the event of an appeal being heard, the parties may agree that only portions of the transcript that are relevant may be produced before the court. This may, for instance, be the case in which it is only the sentence that is the subject of the appeal. We believe that these measures will indeed contribute to more efficient management of the resources available to the department.

Finally, the portfolio committee heard evidence that the number of appeals dismissed by our High Courts is becoming increasingly high. In fact, the statistics show that the number of appeals dismissed by our courts increased by 141% - more than twice the number of appeals are being dismissed as are being upheld.

The leave-to-appeal procedure, through its reintroduction, will ensure that cases that are meritorious will flow through the system, and we believe that this will prevent those that have no merit from clogging up the system and burdening it. For the reasons I have stated - that this Bill introduces cost-effectiveness, will ensure greater efficiency and, overall, will produce a more just regime - I commend the Bill to the House. Thank you. [Applause.]

Ms C B JOHNSON: Deputy Speaker, hon members, both the amending Bills which are the subject of the debate before the House this afternoon will, in the view of the New NP, contribute to giving all persons equal protection under the law and increased access to justice, and therefore both Bills must be supported.

The Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill has been drafted as a result of the Constitutional Court judgment of Steyn v the State. In the stated judgment, the honourable court was required to decide on the constitutionality of appeal procedures in the lower courts. The court evaluated the appeal procedures in lower courts against those used in the High Court and came to the following conclusion:

The situation of an accused person, wanting to appeal from a magistrate’s decision, is very much less favourable than one who seeks an appeal against a conviction in a High Court.

The court subsequently held that sections 309B and 309C of the Criminal Procedure Act were inconsistent with section 35 of the Constitution, which guarantees every accused person the right to a fair trial including the right to an appeal and the right to a review. The court accordingly declared these sections invalid.

The amending Bill before us this afternoon introduces a new leave to appeal and petition procedure in the Criminal Procedure Act. It aims to prevent appeals from the lower courts when they are without merit from unnecessarily overburdening the High Court roll. It also allows that certain appeals must be considered on the written arguments of the parties. These new provisions will, in our view, assist in the speedy resolution of appeals and will assist in eliminating existing backlogs in our courts.

The Bill also provides for an automatic right of appeal to children who were aged 14 at the time of the commission of the offence and to children aged between 14 and 16 who were unrepresented at the time of their trial. Also, persons who were sentenced to a form of imprisonment that was not wholly suspended will have an automatic right of appeal, and the Bill gives a procedural right to legal aid. The National Unity and Reconciliation Amendment Bill will also achieve two very important aims. Firstly, it will allow for the payment of funds from the President’s Fund as compensation to communities for rehabilitation and reparation. Secondly, it will provide for the establishment of committees and subcommittees by the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development.

Voorsitter, waarom is hierdie oogmerke so belangrik? Tans kan slegs individue kwalifiseer vir fondse vanuit die Presidentsfonds ter kompensasie. Gegewe die feit dat sekere gemeenskappe in Suid-Afrika in die geheel en ook gesamentlik skade gelei het, sal dié wysigings baie daartoe bydra dat gemeenskappe ook hul regmatige kompensasie sal kan ontvang. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Chairperson, why are these objectives so important? At present only individuals can qualify for funds from the President’s Fund as compensation. Given the fact that certain communities in South Africa suffered damage, in their entirety as well as jointly, these amendments will contribute greatly to these communities also receiving their just compensation.]

We believe that this is in keeping with the spirit and objective for which the TRC was initially established. Secondly, some of the findings of the committees have since formed the subject of court proceedings and have been referred back to the committees by the court. The fact of the matter is that these original committees or subcommittees are no longer in existence and therefore cannot reconsider these matters. The proposed amendment will now empower the Minister to establish and convene these committees in order to reconsider these matters, but only matters that have been referred back by a competent court or which form part of a settlement agreement pursuant to pending litigation.

Die Nuwe NP is van mening dat beide hierdie twee wetsontwerpe absoluut noodsaaklik is om aan alle persone gelyke beskerming voor die reg te verleen. En ons glo dat dié wetsontwerpe in hierdie doel slaag. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The New NP is of the opinion that both these Bills are absolutely essential to give everyone equal protection in the eyes of the law. And we believe that these Bills succeed in attaining this objective.]

The New NP commends the department, the state law advisers and the chairperson of the portfolio committee for two well-drafted Bills. The New NP supports both these Bills. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr S N SWART: Madam Deputy Speaker and hon Minister, the ACDP has consistently supported the concept of restorative justice whereby a victim of a wrongdoing is compensated for his loss. It is the responsibility of judges and rulers to right wrongs whether the culprit is located or not. When a criminal wrongdoer is not apprehended, the state should compensate the victim because it is the duty of the state to maintain law and order.

The truth and reconciliation process is considered a prime example of the application of restorative justice principles whereby victims of gross human rights abuses were able to recount their experiences, and in certain cases forgiveness was requested and extended, and reconciliation achieved. The issue of reparation or restitution for wrongdoing, in this case for gross human rights abuses, is a further prime application of restorative justice principles.

In the process of reparation and rehabilitation emanating from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s Report, special emphasis was placed on the rehabilitation of communities. The current wording of section 42(2) of the TRC Act, however, only requires payments from the President’s Fund to victims by way of reparations''. The definition of victims’’ is consequently not broad enough to include communities at large. The ACDP consequently supports the amendments to allow payments to be made ``towards the rehabilitation of communities’’ at large where such communities were the subject of gross human rights abuses. As far as the Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill is concerned, as it stipulates and substitutes various sections of the Criminal Procedure Act in order to reintroduce in the Act the application for leave to appeal in the magistrates’ courts and the petition procedures in the High Courts, the ACDP will support these amendments, being of a technical nature and serving to alleviate the large number of criminal appeals following the Steyn judgment.

The ACDP consequently supports both these amending Bills. I thank you.

Mr M T MASUTHA: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon members of Parliament, comrades and friends, today this august House is being called upon to consider the passing of two Bills, namely the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Amendment Bill and the Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill, which, for the purposes of my speech, I’ll refer to as the TRC Bill and CPA Bill, respectively.

At face value both these Bills appear to be aimed at effecting cosmetic changes to the laws they seek to amend, as was mentioned to by my colleague earlier on. Yet upon close scrutiny a different picture becomes apparent, hence the need for this debate. The TRC Bill arises out of the need, firstly, to extend the scope of the principal Act to cover the rehabilitation of communities, and not just individual victims, upon whom gross human rights violations had been inflicted of the kind envisaged in the TRC Act.

This is in response to the adoption by Parliament on 25 June of this year of the recommendations by the President in terms of the TRC Act in this regard. The Bill is further intended to amend the principal Act to provide for appointment by the Minister of committees to deal with outstanding matters following the dissolution of the TRC. These matters arise out of a number of circumstances which I now wish to deal with.

Firstly, in the Niewoudt case the Cape Provincial Division of the High Court found certain procedural irregularities in the dismissal by the amnesty subcommittee of the TRC of certain amnesty applications submitted to it, the details of which I do not wish to deal with at this point in time. The court in casu set aside that decision of the amnesty subcommittee and directed the Minister to establish a committee on amnesty to consider the applications for amnesty afresh.

The difficulty, however, is that the TRC has since completed its work and dissolved together with all its committees and subcommittees, and has in fact already finalised all its work, including the submission of its report, which was officially received by this Parliament on 15 April this year. The Bill therefore provides for the establishment, firstly, of a new subcommittee to deal with outstanding matters that were previously dealt with by the amnesty committee or any of its subcommittees, should the need arise pursuant to a court judgment such as the one I have just mentioned, or an out-of-court settlement.

Secondly, the Bill provides for the establishment of committees other than the amnesty committee as the need may arise. Thirdly, the Bill provides specifically for a situation where, as a result of a decision of a newly appointed amnesty subcommittee, reparation to a victim or the declaration of a person as a victim may need to be considered. In such event the Minister may appoint a new committee to do so. Fourthly, where there is a need to consider whether an act or omission suffered by a victim constitutes a gross human rights violation in terms of the TRC Act, a new committee can be appointed by the Minister to consider such a matter in terms of this Bill.

Finally, and in response to claims made to the Ad Hoc Joint Committee on Reparations during its deliberations that errors may have been made in the course of the finalisation of the work of the TRC, such as certain people having been erroneously declared dead when they are in fact still alive, the Bill provides for the possibility of such mistakes being rectified by notice in the Gazette, which may be published by the Minister. The Portfolio Committee on Justice is of the view that these amendments are urgent, necessary and appropriate to fast-track the completion of the work of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission so that the critical challenge of healing the wounds of the past through reparation to victims can begin in earnest.

Turning to the CPA Bill, let me start by stating that this Parliament has maintained and will continue to maintain its unwavering commitment to the protection and advancement of the rights of all people in our country, especially those provided for in the Bill of Rights, including the right of accused persons to appeal to a higher court, which is at issue here. This matter arises following a decision by the Constitutional Court in the Steyn judgment, which has already been deliberated upon at length this afternoon, that found the current mechanism of sifting out appeals against magistrates’ courts’ judgments to the High Court that are without merit to fall short of the constitutional standard of the right of appeal.

Previously, convicted persons had an automatic right of appeal against convictions and sentences imposed by magistrates. This right was subsequently limited through the introduction through legislative amendments of sections 309B and 309C, so as to create a sifting mechanism to prevent appeals that are without merit from clogging court rolls and thus delaying justice for those whose pending appeals have merit. This sifting mechanism, the court found, had its own pitfalls fatal enough to render it constitutionally unsustainable.

Some of the shortcomings arising out of this sifting mechanism were aptly demonstrated by the learned Justice Madlanga in casu when he had the following to say:

After the refusal of leave to appeal by a magistrate, all that the clerk of a magistrates’ court is required to submit to the High Court for consideration, along with the petition, are copies of the refused application for leave and the magistrate’s reason for refusing the application. This is a bare minimum of information that is to be placed before the judges who consider the petition. Not even the judgment sought to be appealed against (or reasons for it) must be lodged with the High Court. … Often the judgment refusing leave is not helpful at all. It does not explain why, on the available facts, the magistrate was satisfied with the proof of guilt or imposed the particular sentence. The present application illustrates this point. This is all that the magistrate said in refusing the leave …

The learned judge then proceeds to quote the relevant magistrate, who had the following to say:

Hierdie hof is van oordeel dat ‘n ander hof nie tot ander bevinding sal kom as wat hierdie hof geraak het nie en die aansoek om verlof word van die hand gewys.

The department had a six-month deadline set by the court to bring amendments to Parliament to rectify this defect, which it was unfortunately unable to meet, whereupon court rolls had once again become clogged as the judgment took effect. This has necessitated the introduction of amendments contained in this Bill. In order to give a proper chronological background to the issue at hand it is useful to mention the three eras during which the issue of appeal came into sharp focus in our courts as mentioned in the case of Japhta, Ndondo and Ncontana, in the Eastern Cape division, in which the three stages which this matter underwent were outlined, namely, firstly the period between the enactment of section 309B and 309C, and the Steyn judgment, which is the period 25 May 1999 to 29 November 2000; secondly, the six-month period of suspension of the operation of the Steyn judgment, which was 30 November 2000 to 29 May 2001; and, thirdly, the period following the end of suspension which is from 30 May 2001 to date.

Turning to the Bill itself, let me start by stating that the committee is convinced that the need to resuscitate the leave-to-appeal mechanism is apparent in the interest of maximising efficiency in our criminal justice system, hence the retention of this system as provided for in the newly drafted sections 309B and 309C. The automatic right of appeal is, however, retained with regard to convicted children under the age of 14 and those between the ages of 14 and 16 if they were unrepresented and were sentenced to imprisonment, as some of my colleagues have already mentioned.

The leave-to-appeal procedure provided for under section 309B is being revamped by the substitution of subsection (2)(b) with a new subsection which provides that a transcribed case record must be submitted in respect of an application for leave to appeal where the application is heard by a magistrate other than the magistrate who tried the case. Further, subsection (2)(b) contains a provision in terms of which it will be sufficient if copies of only the judgment are submitted in those cases where legally represented persons were convicted and sentenced in the regional court.

The proposed subsection (4)(a) provides that if an application for leave to appeal is granted, copies of the record and of all relevant documents must be transmitted to the registrar of the court of appeal unless the accused and the Director of Public Prosecutions agree that only some parts of the record are relevant to the prospective appeal. The magistrate who refuses an application for leave to appeal must record his or her reasons for such refusal in terms of the proposed new subsection (4)(b).

The ANC supports this Bill with all the amendments it seeks to effect. It hopes that, contrary to some doubts regarding its constitutionality expressed by the learned Justice Kriegler, a former judge of the Constitutional Court, in his recent comments to the portfolio committee, these amendments, if put to the test in future, will pass constitutional muster with flying colours. I thank you. [Applause.]

Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Speaker, the PAC supports the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Amendment Bill. Its aim is to amend the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act of 1995, so as to allow payments from the President’s Fund towards the rehabilitation of communities.

Section 42 of the principal Act is now amended to read as follows: There shall be paid from the Fund all amounts payable towards the rehabilitation of communities in terms of regulations made by the President.

The PAC, while supporting payments to victims of apartheid, repeats its well-known position on the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and its outcome. First of all, reparations have been far below international standards as practised elsewhere in the world where a crime against humanity was committed. It is not correct that only 220 000 people in our country qualify for reparations as victims of apartheid. It is an insult to even these few selected victims of apartheid to offer them R30 000 as reparations. Victims of crimes against humanity throughout the world have received more reasonable reparations than the victims of apartheid in our country. This has serious implications. It raises the question: Does the concept of crimes against humanity apply to Africans? If so, why are victims of apartheid in South Africa being treated differently?

This treatment of them shows that this country pays lip service to the principles of international law. Through the international convention on the suppression and punishment of the crime of apartheid, the United Nations declared apartheid to be a crime against humanity. The TRC gave amnesty to almost all the perpetrators of apartheid and to spies such as Craig Williamson. But a number of former Apla members, who fought against the crime of apartheid, are languishing in the prisons of this country as ``criminals’’.

The PAC demands that all freedom fighters be released from jails. History will pass a harsh judgment on those who sacrifice them on the altar of appeasement and the peace of the lamb and the jackal. Justice should never be sacrificed for the sake of political expediency. Reconciliation will be an empty shell in this country if former freedom fighters who did not appear before the TRC are persecuted. Because of the limited time at my disposal, I am unable to comment on the other Bill - the Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill. I thank you. Miss S RAJBALLY: Madam Deputy Speaker, the MF is pleased by the efforts at truth and reconciliation that South Africa has made, and notes that the damages endured through the apartheid regime extend far beyond individual scars and torments. Much damage and torture were endured by communities that to date struggle coping with change, democracy and the freedom that our Bill of Rights affords us.

Reports of the TRC show communities that seriously require reparation and retribution. Many of our Indian communities carry the same burdens. With this in mind, the MF voices its support for the provision made in this Bill to allow for the funding of these communities’ rehabilitation. It is, however, hoped that the funds that will be utilised in doing this will be sufficient in attaining our aims of rehabilitation. The provisions made in this Bill in relation to the Disaster Relief Fund are also supported.

In terms of the Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill, the MF acknowledges the backlog that our High Courts are burdened with in terms of appeals. In view of this, we have no objection to the sifting process that the Bill suggests courts utilise to establish leave to appeal. The MF is well aware of the South African dilemma of juvenile delinquency, and is also aware of the need to watch over our children. In this respect, provisions made in terms of appeal for juveniles are supported.

The overcrowding of prisons appears to be a major issue in South Africa with prisons estimated to be 65% overcrowded. However, we want to protect our communities, and criminals need to be brought to justice. The MF supports provisions made in this Bill to institute better management of criminal justice. It is, however, hoped that their efforts to stamp out crime will be more successful. The MF supports both the Bills. Thank you. [Applause.]

Ms N MAHLAWE: Madam Deputy Speaker, I rise in support of the amendments to the Bills. I shall premise my debate on a declaration in the preamble to the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act, Act 34 of 1995, which is an extract from the Constitution, and I quote: The pursuit of national unity, the wellbeing of all South African citizens and peace require reconciliation between the people of South Africa and the reconstruction of society.

Firstly, I would like us to reflect on and honour the heroes and heroines of our struggle who died at the hands of state operatives, whose families have survived gross human rights violations and who are now at the centre of the objectives of this Bill. In brief, I can mention a few of these, like Matthew Goniwe, Sparrow Mkonto, Fort Calata, Sicelo Mhlawuli of Cradock, whose bodies were charred to ashes at the hands of state operatives, and the so-called Hammer Unit. This Bill takes their families into consideration.

Section 40 of the Bill has an insertion that ensures effective allocation of the amounts, as contemplated in the Act. This will go a long way in the reparation process. We also honour the name of Steve Biko, who died naked in a cell. We remember the disappearance of Vuyisile Mini from custody, and that of Bongo and Ngudle, who were tortured and executed, as well as the disappearance of many comrades from a number of universities - among them the University of Natal and the University of Transkei. Revelations during the TRC processes showed that they were tortured and murdered.

So many families and communities were left destitute and full of anger, despair, traumatised and hopeless. This Bill then gives hope to these families, as it is the insertion - in section 42 - which ensures that funds are being paid for rehabilitation of communities and this is what they need; as well as section 47(3)(a),(b) and (c), as inserted in the principal Act. The previous speakers have already alluded to all these sections.

To conclude, I need to say that we obviously have a key message here; a message that says that the ANC Government is determined to nurture its laws and policies aimed at bringing about peace, reconciliation and reconstruction of South African society as a whole, including the wellbeing of South African citizens and unity. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms M SMUTS: Madam Speaker, I began my speech on the adoption of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act here in 1995, with Quentin Cornelius. I described the night in the Heidelberg Tavern in Station Road in Observatory, just below the hospital, when multiracial groups of friends, students, were mown down four months before the democratic election of 1994. I said in that speech, in the debate where we passed the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act, that Quentin had been rendered paraplegic, and lived with permanent pain. We had all spent many months redrafting the original Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Bill to the point where we could all support its amnesty and reparations formula - despite the extreme results of repression and terrorism.

Today’s speech, I hope the last on the TRC, is, quite extraordinarily, about Quentin again. I have remained in touch with other victims and survivors from my constituencies over the years, and have dealt with others from beyond my borders, but Quentin’s case always stood out. When I paged through volume 7, which was the victims list forming part of the final report, a few months ago, I was astonished to read that Quentin had been killed in the Heidelberg attack. I e-mailed him immediately in Dubai where he has a job, to say that the DA’s attempts to get reparations based on actual loss had just been complicated in his case by a vast exaggeration of his fate, and that I was writing to the President’s Fund in the Justice Ministry. I never received a reply.

I still believe that there should have been an appeal mechanism for all victims erroneously or unfairly excluded. But the Justice committee has, however, done the right thing in respect of Quentin and I thank them for that. Thank you to the hon Mike Masutha, the hon Johnny de Lange, in particular, and my colleague, the hon Sheila Camerer. The committee recommended that the Minister should direct that the department had to approach the High Court with an application to correct Quentin’s classification, and that the department had to bear the cost. Any further technical errors identified in the final report have to be corrected through the judicial process. May I express the hope that the department will publicise this fact, so that other victims will be aware of what they have to do if errors have occurred.

The Bill gives the Minister the power to correct errors in notices, proclamations and the like, by way of notice in the Gazette, but this excludes the final report itself. I fear that there will be other persons who are the victims of error, because the compilers of volume 7 freely admit, in their report, that they may have made mistakes. In fact, more than 1 700 designated victims were lost between the first listing and the expanded urgent interim measures which tried to compensate for the delay in reparation set at R30 000, which we still consider inadequate.

In Quentin’s case, the R30 000 will go towards a new wheelchair, costing $4 000, or his ongoing monthly costs. But let me leave this last thoughts with hon members, what he really needs is a spinal stimulation implant to alleviate the constant chronic nerve root pain with which he has lived for 10 years. ``It is unbearable and 10 years is as much as I can handle’’. That is what he has told me in an e-mail. The neurosurgeon’s quote for that is R240 000.

It remains a matter of regret for me that we are simply paying R30 000 across the board, and that we did not take particular circumstances into account. But at least today we can say that this wonderful young man, who was erroneously excluded, has been properly recognised. [Applause.]

Mr G SOLOMON: Deputy Speaker, in June 1996, three police persons, Niewoudt, du Toit and Ras, were convicted of the murder of Warrant Officer Mgoduka, Sergeant Faku, Sergeant Mpipa and Xolile Skati, because the victims were going to join the ANC. The perpetrators were sentenced to 20, 15 and 10 years imprisonment respectively.

The incident happened on 14 December 1989. The three, perpetrators together with six others, applied for amnesty in terms of the Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Act, Act 34 of 1995. The matter was heard by the amnesty committee of the TRC. On December 1999, a majority of the committee refused the application for amnesty. The applicants then proceeded to the High Court, seeking to review and set aside the decision of the amnesty committee, and seeking a further order in terms of which the said court would grant them amnesty.

At the conclusion of the hearing, the court accordingly ordered the following: The decision of the subcommittee on amnesty of the TRC was set aside, and the Minister of Justice was directed to establish a subcommittee of the amnesty committee to reconsider their application for amnesty. The problem is that the TRC has been dissolved. There is no longer a TRC and, as a consequence of this, certain amendments had to be made to the TRC Act, particularly section 47 thereof, empowering the Minister to give effect to this order of the High Court and its consequences.

Further amendments were necessary to the sensitive and emotional aspect of reparations. It was considered that the current wording of section 42(2), dealing with the matter, only requires payments from the funds generated by Government and donations from the private sector, and I quote, ``to victims identified by the TRC by way of reparation, in terms of regulations made by the President’’.

This definition of victims is not broad enough to include the community at large. It was, therefore, recommended that this section be appropriately amended to enable payment to be made from the President’s Fund also towards the rehabilitation of communities. This is important because reconciliation and nation-building involve the nation as a whole. This is the heart and soul of the TRC process, as spelt out in the preamble of the TRC Act, and I quote:

That the 1993 Constitution states that the pursuit of national unity, the wellbeing of all South African citizens and peace require reconciliation between the people of South Africa and the reconstruction of society.

Political parties often forget that the TRC is a result of party-political negotiations. We must be reminded that the Act is a singularly unique piece of legislation, amongst the best in the world, with a built-in predisposition towards reconciliation, forgiveness and peace between enemies.

For about two years, the world witnessed the proceedings. South Africans and the world at large were stunned and humbled at the capacity of our people to forgive and to reconcile. We were deeply moved by the unbounded humanity of the Chairperson of the TRC, former Archbishop Desmond Tutu. We were proud and thoroughly impressed by the competence with which the whole process was being conducted.

The TRC was unquestionably a genuine attempt by the movement of the ANC to deal with the wounds of the past, to lay the basis for reconciliation, peace and stability in order to proceed with its programmes of reconstruction to create a better life for all and, particularly, the victims of gross human rights violations. On the contrary, the TRC can also be used as a tool of real politics by the opposition to undermine the Government’s agenda of nation-building, reconstruction and development and the creation of a positive investor climate.

In his state of the nation address before this Parliament, the President cautioned that no amount of money could make up for the suffering of our people in the past. The President continued that the Government has begun broad reforms and programmes to give blacks in particular, and the victims collectively, a greater stake in the economy of our country.

Let us return to the sensitive and emotional question of reparations. The least publicised of the committees of the TRC was the Reparations and Rehabilitation Committee. It is also the most vulnerable to exploitation for party political ends. This committee was a working committee. It was given the mandate, based on the findings of the other committees, namely human rights violations and amnesty, to develop policy on how best to assist those found to be victims.

According to the TRC Act, the policy could recommend reparations in the form of compensation, ex gratia payment, restitution, rehabilitation or recognition. In formulating the reparations and rehabilitation policy, the TRC based its recommendations on the testimonies and information, not only of victims but also of civil society, NGOs, academic institutions and religious groups.

There was no doubt with the TRC that the state and not civil society must assume the responsibility of providing reparations. The TRC also acknowledged that reparations can never fully compensate for the suffering of victims, but they can improve the quality of the lives of victims. Hon Camerer, it is incorrect to say that the ruling party blurred the recommendations on reparations.

In brief, the TRC came up with a reparations and rehabilitation policy with five aspects. First, we have the urgent interim reparations which involve small financial rewards, to cover emergency assistance for medical and educational requirements. This has been fulfilled by the Government.

Second are the individual reparation grants which include financial payments to victims or their dependants. As soon as this amendment is signed, ex gratia payments shall be made to individuals or their dependants.

Third are the symbolic reparations, the erection of memorials, monuments and tombstones and the obliteration of criminal records of those wrongly charged in the past and the renaming of public places after victims. This process has also started.

The fourth aspect is the community rehabilitation programmes, the resettlement of displaced people and access to treatment centres. This has also started.

Fifth we have institutional reform, and the adoption of administrative, legal and institutional steps to ensure that the perpetration of human rights violations is never ever repeated. For this, the justice committee has processed substantial pieces of legislation. The ruling party, the ANC, has delivered much of these recommendations and shall continue to do so in the interest of victims and the country as a whole.

It is quite clear that the recommendations stretch beyond financial grants alone. The symbolic community and individual focus of reparations was considered by the TRC to be vital. The implementation of the reparations policy should involve the whole nation, which will enhance the transformation of our society and the opportunity to restore the moral and social balance of South Africa. It should also not be misinterpreted or misconstrued as an opportunity for enrichment of victims. I read of a very simple incident of great significance in the Sunday Times of 7 September 2003. It is a story of Onkgopotse Ramothibi Tiro, an exile of the 1976 national student uprising, a member of Azapo. He died in a parcel bomb explosion, suspected of being sent by the security police in Gaborone. His remains were exhumed for proper burial in Zeerust.

The mother of this revolutionary and freedom … [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The MINISTER FOR JUSTICE AND CONSTITUTIONAL DEVELOPMENT: Deputy Chairperson, thank you very much. Essentially, I’m rising to thank the hon members for what I think has been a very good and positive discussion of these two Bills, but it’s unavoidable to say just a few things with regard to the TRC-related Bill.

First and foremost, I need to stress, as did the President on 15 April when he addressed us in this House, that the R30 000 is over and above what we are doing by way of many other programmes. Therefore, the hon Pheko is not right when he suggests that we are just dishing out R30 000 and think that we have dealt with the problems that derive, from colonialism and its apartheid off-shoot,

So, the figure is, indeed, part of a whole host of other things that we are doing. I think we need to stress, also, that this is not compensation. It would, indeed, be an insult if you said you were compensating the victims of apartheid with R30 000. It would be an insult. So, it should not be regarded as compensation. It’s part of what we think needs to happen.

I agree with hon Vezi that we should, indeed, consult with the communities, because they know their needs best, and I want to believe that we are not just talking about Government consulting with the communities, but also about duly elected leaders of the communities in the various spheres of government and in many other social formations going to consult with the people and saying here is an opportunity for us to address these problems that derive from our past and, indeed, let’s use this opportunity as this community, etc.

The hon Pheko said the figure was low. It’s a pity I can’t see him here. I wanted to ask him: Compared to what? He’s lost interest in this discussion. He said it should not only be 22 000 victims. Indeed, I would agree with him. We are not just talking about the 22 000 victims, but it’s useful to remember what the law says. The TRC would define those victims as victims of gross human rights violations, and indeed, they came forward and the TRC gave us that list of not more than 22 000 people.

But, of course, as hon Smuts said, there are surely many people who might have been erroneously excluded. We will not include them when we are actually paying out these sums of R30 000 per person, because we don’t even know what numbers we are talking about. Surely, it would not be a good thing to just say: ``Well, hard luck, you are not part of the 22 000’’, when the case is an obvious one. So, hon Smuts, we will, indeed, work very hard and ensure that those who were erroneously excluded do receive the necessary attention.

I want to go back to the hon Pheko’s statement. He said people throughout the world have received compensation. Where in this world? The hon member has not been able to help us. He doesn’t say this is what they received in this country from this person. As matters stand, whatever money he may be thinking of would have to come from taxation.

Assuming that, indeed, we agreed on a figure and said, look, you give each one of us who happened to be black at the wrong moment in our history R300 000 each, then we’ve got that money in our pockets, we have exhausted the coffers of the fiscus and yet, indeed, there are many things that we need beyond the acquisition of that amount. We would still be coming back to say, by the way, these are our actual needs, thanks for the money. However, again, we are told, so many people in the world did get whatever.

Let’s come back to the issue of the release of freedom fighters who didn’t appear before the TRC. I doubt, indeed, if it would be correct to say that there are people who didn’t appear before the TRC deliberately, who should, nonetheless, be catered for, because then we don’t have any basis in the law to do so. All of us had an opportunity to appear before the TRC and its committees. If we didn’t, hard luck, honestly. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Criminal Procedure Amendment Bill read a second time. Promotion of National Unity and Reconciliation Amendment Bill read a second time.

CONSIDERATION OF REQUEST FOR APPROVAL BY PARLIAMENT OF NOTICE IN TERMS OF INTERIM RATIONALISATION OF JURISDICTION OF HIGH COURTS ACT, 2001

There was no debate.

Notice in terms of Interim Rationalisation of Jurisdiction of High Courts Act, 2001 approved.

                  WORKSHOP ON CENSUS RESULTS, 2001

                           (Announcement)

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Hon members, I have an announcement to make. Tomorrow a workshop on the results of Census 2001 will be facilitated by Statistics SA. The meeting will take place at 13:30 and the venue will be the Old Assembly Chamber. I would like to encourage members to attend this meeting.

The House adjourned at 17:38. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                      MONDAY, 8 SEPTEMBER 2003

ANNOUNCEMENTS: National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Translations of Bills submitted:

 (1)    The Minister of Finance:


     (i)     Wysigingswetsontwerp op Spesiale Pensioene  [W  3  -  2003]
             (National Assembly - sec 75).


             This is the official  translation  into  Afrikaans  of  the
             Special Pensions Amendment Bill  [B  3  -  2003]  (National
             Assembly - sec 75).


     (ii)    Wysigingswetsontwerp op die ``Government Employees  Pension
             Law" [W 4 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75).


          This  is  the  official  translation  into  Afrikaans  of  the
          Government Employees Pension Law Amendment Bill [B 4  -  2003]
          (National Assembly - sec 75).

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Finance:

 (a)    Multi-Annual Indicative Programme and  Country  Strategic  Paper
     between the Government of the Republic  of  South  Africa  and  the
     European Community for 2003-2006,    tabled  in  terms  of  section
     231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (b)    Explanatory Memorandum to the Multi-Annual Indicative  Programme
     and Country Strategic Paper between the Government of the  Republic
     of South Africa and the European Community for 2003-2006.
 (c)    Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
     and the Government of the Federal Republic  of  Germany  concerning
     Financial Cooperation - Rural Electrification, tabled in  terms  of
     section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 (d)    Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreement between  the  Government
     of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of  the  Federal
     Republic  of  Germany  concerning  Financial  Cooperation  -  Rural
     Electrification.

1. The Minister of Labour:

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of  the  Unemployment  Insurance
     Fund for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-General  on
     the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 73-2003].


 (b)    Report and Financial Statements of  the  Compensation  Fund  for
     2002-2003, including the  Report  of  the  Auditor-General  on  the
     Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 74-2003].


 (c)     Report  and  Financial  Statements  of  the  National  Economic
     Development and Labour Council for 2002-2003, including the  Report
     of the Independent Auditors for 2002-2003.


 (d)    Report and Financial Statements of the Public  Sector  Education
     and Training Authority (PSETA) for 2002-2003, including the  Report
     of the Auditor-General on the Financial  Statements  for  2002-2003
     [RP 91-2003].

National Assembly:

Papers:

1. The Speaker:

 (1)    Eighth Report of the Working Group on the African Union:
     1. Introduction


          In its seventh report to the House, adopted on 19  June  2003,
          the Working  Group  recommended  that  the  National  Assembly
          consider  convening  a  meeting  of  African  Parliaments   to
          exchange views on the Pan African Parliament (PAP) with a view
          to building a common vision.


          The Speaker had consulted  the  Chairperson  of  the  National
          Council of Provinces (NCOP) and been  advised  that  the  NCOP
          Working Group on the African Union would be  meeting  and  the
          Deputy Chairperson would be participating in  the  discussions
          of the National Assembly  Working  Group.  The  Working  Group
          agreed that it would continue to invite  all  members  of  the
          NCOP Working Group to its meetings.


     2. Meeting of African Parliaments
          The meeting of African Parliaments was held from 30 June to  1
          July 2003 in the National Assembly Chamber and was  opened  by
          Deputy President, H.E. Mr J G Zuma.


          The meeting was  attended  by  138  Parliamentarians  from  38
          Member States of the African Union. Twenty six (68%) of the 38
          delegations included women Parliamentarians,  with  the  total
          number of women Parliamentarians  being  41  (30%).  Delegates
          included 34 Presiding Officers of which 17  were  Speakers  of
          Parliaments.


          The meeting adopted a Declaration which was presented  to  the
          Assembly of the African Union at the 2nd Summit of the AU held
          from 4 to 12 July 2003 in Maputo, Mozambique. The Declaration,
          among other things, urged  Member  States  that  had  not  yet
          deposited the instrument of ratification (of the PAP Protocol)
          to do so by 31 December 2003. The full report of  the  meeting
          as  well  as  the  Declaration  can   be   accessed   on   the
          Parliamentary website: www.parliament.gov.za.


     3. Establishment of the Pan African Parliament


          In  terms  of  Article  22  of  the  Protocol  to  the  Treaty
          Establishing the African Economic Community  relating  to  the
          Pan African Parliament (PAP Protocol), the Protocol will enter
          into  force  thirty  (30)  days  after  the  deposit  of   the
          instruments of ratification by a simple majority of the Member
          States. Article 5(2) provides that the Assembly will determine
          the beginning of the first term of office of the  PAP  at  its
          session immediately following the entry  into  force  of  this
          Protocol.


          At the time of the 2nd Summit of the  African  union  only  16
          countries  had  ratified  the  Protocol.  The   Summit   could
          therefore not decide a date for the first meeting of the  PAP.
          It mandated the Chairperson of the Union, in consultation with
          the Commission, to determine the beginning of the  first  term
          of office of the Parliament in terms of Article 5(2)  as  soon
          as it comes into force.


          The Summit did not discuss or decide on the Seat of  the  PAP.
          However, if sufficient ratifications are deposited before  the
          next Summit, it will be possible for the  Chairperson  of  the
          African Union to determine that the PAP meet  in  any  country
          offering to host that meeting.


          The Assembly  endorsed  the  Declaration  emanating  from  the
          meeting of African Parliaments and also  urged  all  countries
          which had not already deposited instruments of ratification to
          speed up the process of signing and ratifying the Protocol  by
          31 December 2003, to enable the Protocol to enter  into  force
          and the Parliament to meet before 31 January 2004.


          The full text of the Assembly resolution is  attached  to  the
          report as annexure A.


 (2)    Ratifications and preparations for PAP


     As at 8 September 2003, 22 countries had deposited  instruments  of
     ratification  with  the  AU  Commission.  A  mechanism   has   been
     established at an administrative level between  the  South  African
     Parliament  and  the   AU   Commission   to   track   progress   on
     ratification.


     The Speaker informed the Working  Group,  that  the  African  Union
     Steering Committee on PAP, would be convened  soon  after  the  new
     Commission elected in Maputo took  office  in  mid  September.  The
     Committee would consider the progress of ratification,  and  assess
     the possibility of the PAP having its inaugural session  before  31
     January 2004, as per the resolution of the Summit.


     The Steering Committee will also  consider  the  preparations  that
     would need to be made, in order to enable the PAP to meet.


 (3)    Deliberations of the Working Group


     In view of the possibility of a meeting of the PAP early  in  2004,
     the Working Group agreed to focus on preparing  the  South  African
     Parliament  to  participate.  Among  the  issues  identified   are:
     composition of  delegation  to  the  PAP;  election  of  delegates;
     mandates, accountability and reporting mechanisms; Oath of  Office;
     a seminar on the Protocol and the  South  African  Constitution  as
     well as the popularization of the PAP and the AU.  A  programme  of
     work has been agreed to address these issues.


              (a)   Composition  of  delegation  to  the   Pan   African
                   Parliament


                   In terms of Article 4(2) of the Protocol, each  State
                   shall be represented in the PAP by five (5)  members,
                   at  least  one  of  whom  must  be   a   woman.   The
                   representation of each Member State is, in  terms  of
                   Article 4(3), required to reflect  the  diversity  of
                   political opinions in  each  National  Parliament  or
                   other deliberative organ.


              (i)  Gender


              The Working Group recommends: That at least three  (3)  of
              the delegates should be women.


              (ii) Political representation


              Parties need to discuss and agree on  the  composition  of
              the delegation  in  terms  of  party  representation.  The
              following options were discussed by the Working Group  and
              parties need to reflect on them, prior to a decision.


                   Option A
                   If the largest party is to have a majority: 3 members
                   from the largest party and 2 members from among other
                   parties.


                   Option B
                   If   no   majority   representation   is   considered
                   necessary: the five parties with the biggest  numbers
                   could have 1 member each or a variation.


              (iii)      Representation from each House


              The  above  matter  is  still  under  discussion  and  the
              Working Group will report on it in due course.


              (iv) Executive representation


              Article 7 of the Protocol states that  membership  of  the
              PAP will not be compatible with the exercise of  executive
              or  judicial  functions  in  a  Member  State.  It  is  an
              established practice within  Parliament  that  members  of
              the Executive are  not  included  in  the  composition  of
              Parliamentary delegations. Members of the  Executive  will
              therefore not be included in the delegation to the PAP.


              (b)  Election of delegates


              According   to   Article    5(1),    the    Pan    African
              Parliamentarians shall be elected  or  designated  by  the
              respective National Parliaments or any other  deliberative
              organs of the Member States,  from  among  their  members.
              Article 5(3) provides that the term of  a  member  of  the
              PAP shall run concurrently with his or  her  term  in  the
              National Parliament or other deliberative organ.


              This  means  that  this  Parliament  will  need  to  elect
              members to serve on the PAP, if the Chairperson of the  AU
              acts in terms of the Summit resolution and determines  the
              beginning of the first term of the PAP to be before  South
              African elections in 2004. The  post-elections  Parliament
              will need to elect five (5) members of the  PAP  to  serve
              until the 2009 elections.


              The Working Group is currently  discussing  the  procedure
              to be followed in the election of delegates  to  the  PAP.
              Recommendations in this  regard  will  be  tabled  in  due
              course.


              (c)  Mandates, accountability and reporting mechanisms


              The Working Group notes that Article  6  of  the  Protocol
              states that the Pan African  Parliamentarians  shall  vote
              in their personal and independent  capacity.  However,  it
              was also noted that delegates to the PAP  represent  their
              respective Parliaments and for this reason they should  be
              accountable for the positions they take at the PAP.


              (i)  Establishment of a Committee


              The Working Group recommends:  That  Parliament  considers
              establishing a Committee to process and deal  with  issues
              emanating from the African Union and the Southern  African
              Development Community Parliamentary forum  (SADC-PF).  The
              Committee  would  discuss  mandates  and  receive  reports
              emanating from the PAP and the SADC  Parliament  (when  it
              is established) and table reports  in  the  South  African
              Parliament. This Committee  could  also  be  a  forum  for
              discussion with the Executive in its engagement with  both
              the AU and SADC.


              It will be necessary to establish  this  Committee  before
              the first meeting of the PAP, which may  be  as  early  as
              January 2004. Comparative research will  be  conducted  on
              how  other  national  Parliaments  interact   with   their
              delegates  to  regional  and   continental   Parliamentary
              bodies.


              (ii) Recall of delegates


              Article 5(4)(f) of the Protocol provides that the seat  of
              a member of the PAP shall become vacant if he  or  she  is
              recalled by the National Parliament or other  deliberative
              organ.


              The Working Group recommends: That the Assembly  considers
              the inclusion in the Rules of a procedure for recall.


              (d)  Oath of Office


              In terms of Article 13  of  the  Protocol,  at  its  first
              sitting after the election and before proceeding with  any
              other matter, Pan African Parliamentarians shall  take  an
              Oath or make a solemn declaration.


              The Working Group has  considered  whether  South  African
              delegates to  the  PAP  should  be  required  to  take  an
              additional oath in Parliament. The general view  was  that
              this would not be necessary, however, the  possibility  of
              amending the current oath to provide  for  affirmation  of
              loyalty  to  the  concept  of  African  Unity   could   be
              explored. The Assembly could consider this matter  with  a
              view to the 2004 elections.


              (e)  Seminar on the PAP Protocol  and  the  South  African
                   Constitution
              This will be  the  first  occasion  that  Parliament  will
              participate  in  a  forum  such  as  the  PAP  and  it  is
              necessary that all members are informed and  prepared  for
              the  additional  responsibilities  we  are  assuming.  The
              Working Group has agreed that  it  is  necessary  to  make
              members aware of the detail contained in the PAP  Protocol
              and the implications of participation  in  a  multilateral
              Parliament and the possible impact on the  functioning  of
              our Parliament. In this regard, it is  also  necessary  to
              include a discussion on  the  South  African  Constitution
              vis-à-vis the PAP Protocol.


              The Working Group recommends: That a seminar on the  above
              issues be held before the end of  the  2003  Parliamentary
              session. This exercise  will  create  an  opportunity  for
              members to meaningfully engage on PAP issues.


          Report to be considered.

ANNEXURE A to Eighth Report of the Working Group on the African Union:

DECISION ON THE PROTOCOL TO THE TREATY ESTABLISHING THE AFRICAN ECONOMIC COMMUNITY RELATING TO THE PAN-AFRICAN PARLIAMENT

The Assembly:

     1. NOTES WITH  APPRECIATION  the  conclusions  of  the  meeting  of
          African Parliaments held in Cape Town, South  Africa  from  30
          June to 1 July 2003 and ENCOURAGES the Steering Committee  set
          up in pursuance of the  Decision  taken  by  the  Assembly  in
          Durban, South Africa in July 2002, to  pursue  its  endeavours
          aimed at speeding  up  the  process  of  ratification  of  the
          Protocol by Member States;
     2. UNDERSCORES the urgency of the entry into force of the  Protocol
          to the Treaty  establishing  the  African  Economic  Community
          relating to the Pan-African Parliament and the  importance  of
          setting up this organ which will ensure the effective and full
          participation  of  African  peoples  in  the  development  and
          integration of the Continent;


     3.  COMMENDS  Member  States  which  have  already  deposited   the
          instruments of ratification of the Protocol;


     4. URGES all countries which have not already done so, to speed  up
          the process of  signing  and  ratifying  the  Protocol  by  31
          December 2003 if possible to enable the Protocol to enter into
          force, and the Parliament to meet before January 31st 2004;


     5. REQUESTS the Commission to pursue the efforts already  initiated
          to obtain very rapidly the requisite number  of  ratifications
          for the entry into force of the Protocol, thereby making  this
          instrument operational;


     6. NOTES that the Protocol will come into force 30 days  after  the
          deposit  of  the  instruments  of  ratification  by  a  simple
          majority of the Member States;


     7. MANDATES the Chairperson of the Union, in consultation with  the
          Commission, to determine the beginning of the  first  term  of
          office of the Pan-African Parliament in terms of Article  5(2)
          of the Protocol as soon as the Protocol comes into force.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Communications on the Postal Services Amendment Bill [B 40 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 3 September 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Communications, having considered the subject of the Postal Services Amendment Bill [B 40 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill without amendment.

   The Committee reports further that the Democratic Alliance was not in favour of the Bill.

2. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Bill [B 1 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 3 September 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Bill [B 1 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, presents the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Bill [B 1B - 2002].

3. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Government Employees Pension Law Amendment Bill [B 4 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 3 September 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the Government Employees Pension Law Amendment Bill [B 4 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 4A - 2003].

4. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local Government on the Local Government: Municipal Systems Amendment Bill [B 49 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 3 September 2003:

 The Portfolio Committee on  Provincial  and  Local  Government,  having
 considered the subject  of  the  Local  Government:  Municipal  Systems
 Amendment Bill [B 49 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred  to
 it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75  Bill,
 reports the Bill with amendments [B 49A - 2003].


 The Committee reports further, as follows:


 1.     The Local Government: Municipal  Systems  Amendment  Bill  deals
     with consequential amendments flowing from the  processing  of  the
     Local  Government:  Municipal  Finance  Management  Bill   by   the
     Portfolio Committee on Finance.


 2.      The  processing  of  these  Bills  raises  two  questions  that
     Parliament needs to address further at some stage:


     *   The  need  for  greater  co-ordination  between  Ministers  and
          Departments before a Bill is introduced in Parliament so  that
          contradictions between clauses  in  a  Bill  and  sections  of
          legislation adopted in the recent past are addressed as far as
          possible before the parliamentary processing of the Bill.


     *  The extent to which a Portfolio Committee can amend  legislation
          processed by another Portfolio Committee through  attaching  a
          schedule to a  Bill,  even  in  circumstances  where  the  two
          Portfolio Committees are able to co-operate.


 3.     The need to address the governance aspects of municipal entities
     comprehensively has resulted in a change in focus on  the  purposes
     of municipal entities. The  current  provisions  of  the  Municipal
     Systems Act envisage municipal entities, in all its various  forms,
     to be created to provide  municipal  services.  Through  separating
     the provisions dealing with municipal services from  those  dealing
     with the governance aspects of municipal entities by  placing  them
     in  two  different  chapters,  municipal  entities   can   now   be
     established for any function or power performed or exercised  by  a
     municipality. The expression ``functions  and  powers''  refers  to
     all the functions and powers that  a  municipality  is  allowed  to
     perform and  exercise  in  terms  of  the  Constitution  and  other
     applicable laws.  Such  functions  and  powers  would  include  the
     provision of municipal services, as well  as  any  aspect  thereof,
     such as the reading of  water  consumption  meters.  However,  this
     wider approach to the purposes for which municipal entities may  be
     established,  would  also  allow  the  establishment  of  municipal
     entities for functions of a municipality that  do  not  necessarily
     relate to municipal services, such as the provision of  information
     technology support to the municipality in general.


 4.     The Portfolio Committee believes that there is a need  for  more
     information on, and a  better  understanding  of,  the  number  and
     range of municipal entities that currently  exist.  The  Department
     of Provincial and Local Government, the National Treasury  and  the
     (South  African  Local  Government  Association)   (Salga)   should
     contribute towards meeting this need.


 5.     Initially, significant sections of Salga had strong reservations
     about councillors not being allowed to be directors of  the  boards
     of municipal entities. Their concerns revolved  mainly  around  the
     need  to  exercise   effective   control   over   these   entities.
     Following concerted engagement with both the committees on  Finance
     and  on  Provincial  and  Local  Government,  Salga   agreed   that
     councillors should  not  be  directors  on  boards.  The  Portfolio
     Committees are aware of  Salga's  concerns  and  have  strengthened
     provisions that ensure that municipal entities are  accountable  to
     councils without councillors having  to  serve  as  directors.  The
     Portfolio Committee on Provincial and  Local  Government  is  aware
     that these provisions may not be adequate and will, in  future,  in
     consultation with the Portfolio Committee on  Finance,  consider  a
     review of these provisions, should it be necessary to do so.


 6.     To facilitate reporting by municipalities to the  Department  of
     Provincial and Local Government  and  the  National  Treasury,  the
     Portfolio  Committee  believes  it  would  be  useful  if  the  two
     departments would provide municipalities with standardised  formats
     in terms of which to report.


 7.     In processing Clause 8 of  the  Bill,  the  issue  of  municipal
     managers' remuneration was once again raised. The  Committee  draws
     attention to  its  ``Report  on  Study  Tour  of  Municipalities'',
     adopted on 15 April 2003, and in  particular  section  7,  part  of
     which noted: ``Some of  the  issues  raised  by  municipalities  in
     regard to  the  remuneration  of  municipal  managers  (and  senior
     managers), are fair and reasonable and need to  be  addressed.  The
     decision of the Ministry and  DPLG  Department  of  Provincial  and
     Local Government) to develop firm guidelines  on  the  remuneration
     of municipal managers is to be welcomed. Attention  also  needs  to
     be given  to  whether  it  is  constitutionally  possible  for  the
     Minister to issue regulations in this regard. If  so,  this  should
     be done, and, if necessary, amendments to  the  legislation  should
     be effected''.


 8.     The Committee is aware, of course, that the issue is complex. In
     this regard it notes:
     *  Local government is a specific sphere  of  government  currently
          made  up  of  284  municipalities  of  three  categories   and
          different  types,  which  differ,  moreover,   in   terms   of
          population size, budgets,  service  delivery  responsibilities
          and other respects.


     *  To attract highly skilled,  efficient  managers,  municipalities
          often have to compete with high private sector salaries.


     *  Often,  the  municipalities  most  in  need  of  highly  skilled
          municipal managers are the smaller  and  rural  municipalities
          who can least afford them. Yet to draw the  requisite  skills,
          these municipalities have to offer  high  salary  packages  in
          competition with the financially better-off municipalities.


     *  In terms  of  the  new  model  of  local  government,  municipal
          managers are not  appointed  permanently,  but  on  employment
          contracts of five years. This was a deliberate decision  taken
          by  Parliament  to  ensure   that   municipal   managers   are
          productive,  effective   and   accountable.   The   employment
          contracts  include  performance  contracts  which  set   clear
          performance targets and indicators  and  often  include  bonus
          payments for municipal managers,  provided  they  achieve  the
          targets set. Obviously, because of this, it  is  difficult  to
          provide clear and uniform national guidelines.


     *  Those municipalities that  have  not  finalised  employment  and
          performance contracts with municipal mangers as yet, are urged
          to do so as soon as possible.


     *  There is a need for more  information  on  the  remuneration  of
          municipal managers and the responsibilities they fulfil.
 9.     The  Committee  welcomes  the  finalisation  of  the  report  on
     municipal managers' remuneration commissioned by  the  Ministry  of
     Provincial and Local Government. It also welcomes the  proposal  to
     discuss the findings of the report and for  appropriate  action  to
     be  taken  after  consultation  with  all  the  key   stakeholders,
     including Salga, the municipal trade unions, the National  Treasury
     and the Financial and Fiscal Commission.


 10.    The Committee requests the DPLG to present the findings  of  the
     report at a Portfolio Committee meeting within eight weeks.


 11.    In respect of Clause 11(b),  the  Portfolio  Committee  believes
     that, if municipalities request assistance  from  the  national  or
     provincial governments in regard to feasibility studies or  service
     delivery agreements,  national  or  provincial  governments  should
     provide   such   assistance,   unless   there    are    exceptional
     circumstances preventing this.


 12.    Salga believes that section 86A(1)(b) (i) and (ii)  which  deals
     with the Minister's right to  regulate  or  provide  guidelines  on
     cross-subsidisation of services and  equitable  share  allocations,
     should be reviewed. Salga believes that, while they may  have  been
     necessary until now, they may no longer be necessary.  Salga  feels
     that this review should be linked to a review of other  aspects  of
     the local government legislation. Such a review should be based  on
     the practical experiences of municipalities in  effecting  the  new
     model of local government. The Portfolio Committee referred to  its
     ``Study Tour Report of Municipalities'', adopted on 15 April  2003,
     and other decisions that have communicated the need  for  a  review
     of aspects of local government  legislation,  while  ensuring  that
     the fundamental principles  and  features  of  the  new  model  are
     retained. The Portfolio Committee welcomed Salga's proposals for  a
     review of aspects of the legislation and will take this up  further
     with the Ministry and the Department.


 13.    The Portfolio Committee found it especially difficult to process
     this Bill in view of time  constraints  and  other  considerations.
     The Portfolio Committee on Finance was required, in  terms  of  the
     Rules of Parliament, to confer  with  the  Portfolio  Committee  on
     Provincial  and  Local  Government   on   the   Municipal   Finance
     Management Bill. What precisely ``confer'' means  in  practice,  is
     not altogether clear. The Portfolio Committee  on  Finance  sought,
     as far as possible, to  organise  its  meetings  on  the  Municipal
     Finance  Management  Bill  so  that  the  Portfolio  Committee   on
     Provincial and Local  Government  could  also  participate  in  the
     processing of the bill. However, in view of the length of  time  it
     took to process the  Municipal  Finance  Management  Bill  and  the
     heavy work-loads of our respective committees we  were  not  always
     able to sit  together.  We  acknowledge  our  appreciation  to  the
     Portfolio Committee on Finance to the extent that it  was  able  to
     co-operate with us.

                      TUESDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER 2003

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism:

 (1)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 1 September 2003  in  terms
     of Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bill  as  a  section
     75 Bill:


     (i)     General Intelligence Laws Amendment  Bill  [B  47  -  2003]
          (National Assembly - sec 75).


 (2)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 9 September 2003  in  terms
     of Joint Rule 160(4), classified the following Bill  as  a  section
     76 Bill:


     (i)     South African Social Security Agency Bill  [B  51  -  2003]
          (National Assembly - sec 76).

1. Introduction of Bills:

 (1)    The Minister for Provincial and Local Government:


     (i)     Traditional Leadership and Governance Framework Bill [B  58
          - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 76) [Explanatory  summary  of
          Bill  and  prior  notice  of  its  introduction  published  in
          Government Gazette No 25437 of 4 September 2003.]
     Introduction  and  referral   to   the   Portfolio   Committee   on
     Provincial and Local Government of the National Assembly,  as  well
     as  referral   to   the   Joint   Tagging   Mechanism   (JTM)   for
     classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on 10 September 2003.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bill may be submitted to  the  Joint  Tagging  Mechanism  (JTM)
     within three parliamentary working days.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson:

 (a)    Report of the Secretary to Parliament for 2002.
 (b)    Report of the Auditor-General on a Forensic Audit  Investigation
     into the sale of  non-ferrous  scrap  metal  products  at  Transnet
     Limited [RP 179-2003].

1. The Minister of Arts, Culture, Science and Technology:

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements of the National Library of South
     Africa for 2001-2002, including the Report of  the  Auditor-General
     on the Financial Statements for 2001-2002.


 (b)    Report and Financial Statements of the  Spoornet  State  Theatre
     for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Independent Auditor  for
     2002-2003.

1. The Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry:

 Report and Financial Statements of Vote No 33  -  Department  of  Water
 Affairs and Forestry for 2002-2003, including the Report of the Auditor-
 General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 54-2003].

National Assembly:

Papers:

1. The Speaker:

 MEETING OF AFRICAN PARLIAMENTS ON  THE  PAN  AFRICAN  PARLIAMENT,  CAPE
 TOWN, SOUTH AFRICA


 DECLARATION


 We the representatives of Parliaments of Africa meeting in Cape Town on
 30 June to 01 July 2003:


 Recalling


 1.     The Statement adopted at the Meeting of African  Parliaments  in
     Cape Town on 28 June 2002, which was submitted to the  Assembly  on
     09 July 2002.
 2.      The  Commitment  by  the  Assembly  of  the  African  Union  to
     accelerate  the  ratification  of  the  Protocol  to   the   Treaty
     Establishing the African Economic Community  Relating  to  the  Pan
     African Parliament.


 3.     The establishment of the Steering Committee on the  Pan  African
     Parliament on 28 April 2003.


 4.     The decision of the Steering Committee at its first  meeting  in
     Addis Ababa on 28 April 2003 on the  necessary  steps  to  expedite
     the process of  ratification  and  the  operationalisation  of  the
     Protocol.


 Noting that


 1.     Although  much  progress  has  been  made  with  the  number  of
     ratifications of  the  Protocol  to  the  Treaty  Establishing  the
     African Economic Community Relating to the Pan African  Parliament,
     the number of instruments deposited to enable the entry into  force
     of this Protocol has not been achieved.


 2.      The  objectives  of  the  African  Union  cannot  be   realized
     effectively without the full involvement of the peoples of Africa.


 3.      The  Pan  African  Parliament  will  contribute   towards   the
     realisation of the aspirations of the African peoples  for  greater
     unity,  solidarity  and  cohesion  that  transcends   the   gender,
     cultural, ideological, ethnic, religious and national diversities.


 Convinced


 1.     Of the critical role that the Pan African Parliament can play in
     furthering the objectives of the African Union and New  Partnership
     for Africa's Development (NEPAD) and  in  ensuring  the  meaningful
     participation of the African peoples in  the  economic  development
     and integration of the Continent.
 2.     Of  the  need  to  promote  democratic  principles  and  popular
     participation.


 3.     Of the critical role played by democratic  institutions  in  the
     socio-economic  development  and  the  renewal   of   the   African
     Continent.


 Congratulate


 Member States and the Commission of the African Union on the  promising
 and impressive progress made in establishing the Organs of the  African
 Union.


 Urge National Parliaments


 1.     To monitor developments in the African Union  and  to  establish
     working groups or committees that will look  into  issues  relating
     to  the  African  Union,  Pan  African  Parliament  and   the   New
     Partnership for Africa's Development and to engage  the  electorate
     in this process.
 2.     To engage in the political processes towards  the  establishment
     of  Regional   Parliaments   where   appropriate,   to   facilitate
     deliberation on matters of common interest  with  the  Pan  African
     Parliament.


 Request the Steering Committee


 1.     To work closely with the Commission  of  the  African  Union  in
     making all necessary preparations for the  early  establishment  of
     the Pan  African  Parliament,  including  the  preparation  of  all
     documents for consideration and debate by National Parliaments.


 Strongly urge


 1.      Member  States  that  have  not  deposited  the  instrument  of
     ratification to do so by 31 December 2003.


 2.     The Assembly of the African Union to determine the seat  of  the
     Pan African Parliament and target date for its first session.


 3.     Member States to expedite, where appropriate  the  establishment
     of Regional Parliaments with lawmaking powers.


 4.     Governments to  submit  early  drafts  of  Protocols  and  other
     documents related to the African Union  to  Parliaments  of  Member
     States for consideration and input prior to adoption.


 Cape Town, 01 July 2003

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Labour on the Skills Development Amendment Bill [B 46 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 9 September 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Labour, having considered the subject of the Skills Development Amendment Bill [B 46 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports the Bill without amendment.

   The Committee further reports that the following amendments were rejected: CLAUSE 1

   1. On page 2, after line 5, to insert:

      (a) ``black people is a generic term which means Africans, Coloureds and Indians’’. CLAUSE 9

   2. On page 5, in line 30, to omit Minister'' and to substitute Director-General’’. CLAUSE 10

   3. On page 6, in line 4, after may'' to insert direct the Director-General to’’.

2. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Transport on the National Ports Authority Bill [B 5 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 27 August 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Transport, having considered the subject of the National Ports Authority Bill [B 5 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, presents the National Ports Authority Bill [B 5B - 2003].