WEDNESDAY, 19 NOVEMBER 2003 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
                                ____

The House met at 15:03.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

QUESTIONS AND REPLIES - see that book.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Deputy Speaker, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the DP:

That the House - (1) notes that despite the pressing needs highlighted by National Police Commissioner Jackie Selebi recently at a police intelligence gathering, and the fact that the National Intelligence Agency, or NIA, is tasked with co-operating with SAPS intelligence, the Ministry of Intelligence appears to be spending a substantial amount of money on noncore functions, such as advertising and public relations, and on a VIP guesthouse in Cape Town, valued at about R6,5 million;

(2) notes that the hon Minister refuses to answer questions on her department’s expenditure on these items, hiding behind confidentiality requirements, despite the fact that the information requested has absolutely no bearing on national security;

(3) therefore resolves to appeal to the Speaker to intercede in this matter and insist that the hon Minister answers parliamentary questions properly, reprimand the Minister for trying to invoke a blanket amnesty on answering parliamentary questions on the misguided basis that all expenditure on her Ministry, even on advertising and on free condoms, is a matter of national security, and to ask Parliament’s Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence to draw up guidelines to strike a reasonable balance between national security on the one hand and transparency and accountability on the other.

                  TELECOMMUNICATIONS AMENDMENT BILL

                       (Second Reading debate)

Mr R D PIETERSE: Madam Deputy Speaker, please allow me to thank the outgoing board of the SABC, particularly the chairperson, Dr …

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! Hon member, apparently we are not on that particular issue. In fact, we have no list of speakers on this particular Order, and therefore we will ask the secretary to read the Bill a second time. Just take your seat for now. There was no debate.

Bill read a second time.

   CONSIDERATION OF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR APPOINTMENT TO SABC BOARD

Mr R D PIETERSE: Madam Deputy Speaker, please allow me to thank the outgoing Board of the SABC, particularly the chairperson, Dr Vincent Maphai, and the deputy chairperson, Dr Barbara Masekela, on the sterling work and leadership they have given to the board.

The SABC Board has a particular mandate and thus needs people, as a collective, to execute that mandate. Therefore the list of 12 esteemed nominees, as a collective, does subscribe to the said mandate. As a committee, we arrived at the conclusion that the process was credible, fair and transparent.

I do understand that hon members want to play politics every opportunity they get, as we are in the election campaign stage. But I want to appeal to those that are opposing this collective list to grow up and to accept that the people have spoken. [Interjections.]

The opposition must stop acting as spokespersons for those that did not make the final 12. They never appointed you to talk on their behalf and, best of all, you are embarrassing them.

Afrikaans, pragtige Afrikaans, moedertaal van baie van ons oor die kleurgrens heen, maar wat ook spanning tussen ons bring - ons wat Afrikaans baie keer met politiek bevooroordeel en bemors. Menige van ons wil voorgee dat Afrikaans aan hulle behoort, dat net hulle namens Afrikaans mag praat en dat Afrikaans net met ‘n sekere aksent en klem gepraat mag word. Afrikaans is nie meer eksklusief die taal van die onderdrukkers nie, maar hy het sy regmatige plek as ‘n ware Afrikataal ingeneem.

En waar hoor ons ‘n mooier Afrikaans as uit die volksmond van dié op die Kaapse Vlakte wanneer hulle sê: “Dit is duidelik”, “dis ‘n ANC ding” en “die DA se ding is wim”. Waar hoor ‘n mens ‘n mooier Afrikaans as dit?

‘n AGB LID: Op die DA se wa!

Mnr R D PIETERSE: Of selfs as hulle mooier praat, wie praat mooier Afrikaans as die Namakwalanders? En dan sê die mense - party van die politieke partye sê dan - ons praat namens Afrikaans en die Afrikaners.

Wanneer ek na die voorgestelde lede kyk, soos byvoorbeeld agb Lagadien, Swartz en Maralack, dan weet ek die taal Afrikaans is beslis veilig. Maar ons kan nie oor Afrikaans praat sonder om na die aspirasies van die ander tale te kyk nie. Wat van isiXhosa? Wat van isiZulu? Wat van Sesotho? Hulle is nog altyd die benadeeldes vandag.

Afrikaanssprekendes moet dieselfde warmte en liefde, dieselfde beskerming en uitbreiding toon ten opsigte van ander tale as wanneer ons praat oor Afrikaans. Ons moet ook seker maak dat daar kontinuïteit is om te verseker dat die goeie werk wat begin is deur die uitgaande raad, voortgesit word sonder enige haakplek. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Afrikaans, beautiful Afrikaans, mother tongue of many of us across the colour bar, but it also creates tension among us - we who so many times soil Afrikaans with political bias. Many of us want to profess that Afrikaans belongs to them, that only they may speak on behalf of Afrikaans and that Afrikaans may only be spoken with a certain accent and emphasis. No longer does Afrikaans belong exclusively to the oppressor, but it has claimed its rightful place as a true African language.

And where do you here a sweeter Afrikaans than from the mouths of the people on the Cape Flats when they exclaim: “Dit is duidelik!” [It is fine!], “dis ‘n ANC-ding” [it is an ANC thing] en “die DA se ding is wim” [the DA is finished]. Where do you hear an Afrikaans more beautiful than this?

An HON MEMBER: Op die DA se wa! [On the DA’s wagon!] Mr R D PIETERSE: Or even when they use a more poetic language, who speaks a sweeter Afrikaans than the Namaqualanders? And then people say - some of the political parties say - we talk on behalf of Afrikaans and Afrikaners.

When I look at the proposed members like, for instance, hon Lagadien, Swartz and Maralack, then I know that the Afrikaans language is indeed safe. But we cannot talk about Afrikaans without looking at the aspirations of the other languages. What about isiXhosa? What about isiZulu? What about Sesotho? Even today, they are still the disadvantaged ones.

Speakers of Afrikaans should show the same warmth and love, the same protection and expansion in respect of other languages as when we speak about Afrikaans. We must also ensure that there is continuity to ensure that the good work initiated by the outgoing council continues without any hitches.]

This includes, amongst others, the question of transformation and the regional stations’ language and convergence. We won’t demotivate anybody who did not make the list. We will surely not bad-mouth those people. They

• the nominees - are all people of integrity, quality South Africans and, as a collective, are best suited to ensure that the new board of the SABC hits the ground running.

I want to put it to the House that, in fact, all those that were nominated, but particularly those who were short-listed, are outstanding people - people of quality; people of integrity. But like everything else we do in life, there were only 12 positions and we could only pick 12 people. [Interjections.] Nobody has lost, but the SABC has gained 12 quality board members.

Laastens, Afrikaans, soos enige ander taal, behoort nie aan enige party of aan enige groep nie, maar behoort aan dié wat dit praat, lief is daarvoor, dit beskerm, dit verdedig en dit wil uitbrei. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Lastly, Afrikaans like any other language, does not belong to any party or any group, but belongs to those who speak, love, protect, defend and want to expand it.]

Hon members, the ANC governs this country, because the people so decided. The ANC lives and the ANC leads, and will continue to do so, because the people want the ANC to lead them to a better life. Therefore, hon members, as part of that responsibility the ANC proposes the adoption of the 12 nominees, the list of whom is in front of you. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms M SMUTS: Madam, the SABC Board being voted in today will be run by no more than four people: ANC confidante Mr Eddie Funde will take charge, and perhaps resume the teamwork that he and Ms Nomboniso Gasa carried out at the turbulent old SA Telecommunications Regulatory Authority, Satra, which was torn apart by the Cell C soap opera; Miss Christine Qunta and Mr Thami Mazwai will take on content. Their track record over the past five years constitutes what, taken together, you might describe as an Africanist assault on free speech and journalistic independence. Their appointment bodes very ill for the public broadcaster.

Four of the names have our support. They are: Messrs Swartz and Trikamjee for continuity - but where are Ruth Teer-Tomaselli and Frits Kok - Miss Lagadien to serve disability in general, but especially the 4 million South Africans who are hard of hearing, and Alison Gilwald, for across-the-board expertise. She too is a veteran of Satra, but she did not star in the Cell C soap opera. She will not achieve much on her own, we fear.

The remaining four are seat-fillers, keeping better people out. Miss Mkonza deals with small media for the MDDA - the mega media are not her field. Cecil Msomi said the right things, but enquiries failed to illicit enthusiasm. Mr Mbeki is young and nothing else. Does the ANC - panicked about the political demobilisation of the youth - really think that either he or a youth channel pumped full of politics will make any difference?

Lastly, Mr Maralack is quite simply a mystery. To think, hon members, that we could have had Pinky Moholi. You should be ashamed of yourselves. [Interjections.] The SABC must meet the commercial challenges of technological convergence soon, and it needs her combination of engineering and business judgment. She is brilliant, but brilliance is not what the ANC is looking for, especially when it is accompanied by the rejection of all qualifications to free speech.

The ANC was fully as impressed as I was with Pinky’s interview. The only explanation for the hon members’ uncharacteristically zipped lips as they sat huddled in a corner of the committee room, when they tabled the ANC list on Friday, is that they were under orders. It is the only conceivable explanation. [Interjections.]

The committee was supposed to finalise the board on 25 September. Now, some informal discussion about the short-listed candidates did take place between the parties at that time, after 27 hours of interviews and airfares paid by the taxpayer. We, therefore, do have some impression - we do - of what the outcome might have been had MPs been free to apply their minds. But, even then they showed signs of constraint and then that meeting was cancelled.

Now, we are supposed to observe here the separation of powers. We are a powerful arm of state. We represent the people, not the parties, and it is not - to the hon Randy Pieterse - the people who have spoken here. Above all, the executive cannot select the independent bodies because it is precisely the executive they are supposed to be independent from.

This arm of state was very firmly twisted behind its own back with the appointment of this board, I believe. [Interjections.] No, I can’t prove it. If I could, the process would be arguably unlawful.

This is why there were no negotiations this time, no discussions - which might have revealed too much. Lastly, a wounded New NP protested that there had in fact been discussions between the black and the white nationalist parties, and where was the product of the deal?

Die Nuwe NP soek bywonerstatus vir homself op die ANC se plaas. Hy beskik oor geen mandaat om in die naam van Afrikaans te onderhandel nie, en ek sluit my aan by wat Randy gesê het oor die onderwerp.

Ons sou graag wou weet watter name aan ANC-kant die Nuwe NP bereid was om te aanvaar in ruil vir ‘n bywonerboer op ‘n Afrikanistiese raad. [Tussenwerpsels.] Watter prys sou hy betaal vir ‘n bietjie skynwins? Maar op die ou end sit hy maar weer met niks, nè? [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The New NP is looking for tenant status for itself on the ANC’s farm. It does not have the mandate to negotiate on behalf of Afrikaans, and I concur with what Randy has said about the subject.

We would like to know which names, on the side of the ANC, the New NP was prepared to accept in exchange for a tenant farmer on an African council. [Interjections.] What price would it pay for a little false benefit? But in the end it is yet again left with nothing, not so? [Applause.]]

Dr R RABINOWITZ: Madam Deputy Speaker, while it is I who stands at this podium and my voice that you hear, the words I use and the ideas they express are those of the IFP’s full member of communications, the hon Suzanne Vos. She is unfortunately not able to be with us this afternoon. She had paid full and thorough attention to the selection of the SABC Board and saw considerable promise among the first 28 persons that were listed for selection. But the warnings contained in her response and that of the IFP to the new board bode ill for the future of independence and transparency in the public broadcaster. This is Ms Vos’s response to the new SABC Board, and I quote:

The Inkatha Freedom Party opposes this SABC Board nomination list. We see it as an attempt by the ANC majority to exert political control over the SABC. And we know why. The forthcoming convergence legislation will completely rewrite broadcasting and telecommunications laws, and the ANC wants a compliant and complacent SABC Board sitting on its hands, while it turns the SABC from a public broadcaster back to an apartheid-style state broadcaster. And of course, we have an election around the corner.

Unlike the present board, under the excellent chairpersonship of Dr Vincent Maphai, we cannot envisage this proposed collective challenging the Minister’s already stated intention to control the editorial policies of the SABC. There can be no doubt in our minds that the vast majority of persons chosen by the majority party to be put forward in this House, and then to the President for appointment are biased towards the ANC. The names that we have before us today are stacked with people who have long enjoyed the political patronage of the ANC and its allies. Some have been recycled from one Government appointment to another, fulfilling ANC directives. Others have enjoyed the largess of lucrative state and parastatal contracts. On the whole, these nominees do not possess the range of skills required by law for appointment to the board. This is a historic day.

Says Ms Vos.

Mark this date as the day when the SABC finally and publicly lost its independence.

Well, we must all sincerely hope that the board rises above these dismal expectations. I thank you.

Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Agb Voorsitter, mag ek net vir die agb Dene Smuts sê, die Nuwe NP is nie ‘n bywoner op iemand se plaas nie. Volgens die jongste meningspeilings, wat aantoon dat die Nuwe NP fenomenaal groei, is daar duisende derduisende Afrikaanssprekendes wat die Nuwe NP ondersteun en dis namens hulle wat ons hier praat. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Dr B L GELDENHUYS: Hon Chairperson, may I just tell the hon Dene Smuts that the New NP is not a sharecropper on someone’s farm. According to the latest opinion polls, which indicate that the New NP is growing phenomenally, there are thousands upon thousands of Afrikaans-speaking people who support the New NP and we are speaking on their behalf. [Interjections.]]

The outgoing board of the SA Broadcasting Corporation, under the able chairmanship of Dr Vincent Maphai, did excellent work and should be congratulated on a job well done. Unfortunately, the New NP cannot support the new list of SABC Board members to be approved by the hon President. Although the names of excellent candidates appear on the list, the list does not meet the requirements of the Broadcasting Act of 1999. The preamble to the aforesaid Act speaks of the diverse nature of South Africa and about the fact that the broadcasting system is controlled and managed by persons or groups of persons from a diverse range of communities, and must reflect the multilingual and diverse nature of South Africa.

Section 13(4)(b) of the Act further requires that board members should represent a broad cross-section of the Republic. The list that is currently before the House for approval does not reflect the multilingual and diverse nature of South Africa. There is not a single person from the Afrikaans- speaking community on the list, despite the fact that Afrikaans is the third most widely spoken language in South Africa, after isiZulu and isiXhosa. Not only does the Afrikaans-speaking community contribute greatly to the coffers of the SABC by means of advertising and payment of licences, they are also committed to making the new South Africa work.

Die raad van die SABC is ‘n belangrike liggaam wat nie in omstredenheid gedompel moet word nie en, ter wille van versoening en nasiebou, doen ek daarom selfs op hierdie laat stadium ‘n beroep op die agb President om die samestelling van die raad te heroorweeg ten einde voorsiening te maak vir ten minste een persoon uit die Afrikaanssprekende gemeenskap op die raad. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.) [The board of the SABC is an important body that should not be plunged into controversy and, for the sake of reconciliation and nation-building, I am appealing to the hon the President, even at this late stage, to reconsider the board’s composition in order to make provision for at least one person from the Afrikaans-speaking community on the board. [Applause.]]

Dr P W A MULDER: Agb Voorsitter, alle Suid-Afrikaners van alle tale en godsdienste word deur die wet verplig om ‘n televisielisensie te koop. Daarom is daar tot op datum moeite gedoen om die samestelling van die SAUK- raad so verteenwoordigend as moontlik te maak sodat almal voel hulle belange word verteenwoordig. Dit is ook deel van President Mandela se styl van versoening na 1994.

Hierdie name nou voor ons vir die nuwe SAUK-raad trek ‘n streep deur hierdie benadering. Waar daar in die verlede konsensus in die portefeuljekomitee was, het dit ook nou verander. Soos in die President se Kabinet is daar byvoorbeeld geen Afrikaner in hierdie raad nie. Afrikaners wat my skakel, sien dit as ‘n oorlogsverklaring en vir die eerste keer ongelukkig sedert 1994 word daar weer gepraat van lisensieboikotte. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Dr P W A MULDER: Hon Chairperson, all South Africans of all language groups and religions are being compelled by law to purchase a television licence. That is why a lot of effort has been made to date to make the composition the SABC Board as representative as possible so that everyone feels that their interests are being represented. It is also part of President Mandela’s style of reconciliation after 1994.

These names before us at present for the new SABC Board cancel out this approach. Where in the past there was consensus in the portfolio committee, this has now also changed. As in the President’s Cabinet, there is no Afrikaner on this board. Afrikaners who contact me see this as a declaration of war and, unfortunately, for the first time since 1994 there is once again talk of licence boycotts.]

Prof Andreas van Wyk, previous rector of Stellenbosch, said that this is not acceptable, and so did Gert Claassen, head of the SABC Technical Services, Frits Kok, ex-council member, and Margot Luyt, broadcaster and media expert.

Die ANC sê alles moet verteenwoordigend wees, behalwe hierdie raad, lyk dit my. Dis duidelik dat ons uit ‘n politieke versoeningstydperk van President Mandela na ‘n politieke konfrontasietydperk beweeg. Hoe dom en kortsigtig is dit nie. Die VF Plus sal hierdie wetgewing teenstem. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The ANC says everything should be representative, except, it seems to me, this board. It is clear that we are moving from a political reconciliation period of President Mandela to a political confrontation period. How obtuse and shortsighted this is. The FF Plus will vote against this legislation.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Chairperson. The MF notes the constraints regarding selection, but has faith in the abilities and discretion of this committee. It is trusted that a good selection has been made after considering a number of issues, such as qualification and character, among others, that would indicate whether a candidate is well suited for the post.

It is pleasing that Mr Maralack has chosen to once again be interviewed, and we hope that this change of mind was caused by a determined matter and not by indecisiveness.

In terms of the Broadcasting Act and national Constitution, all appears to be intact. Having considered the committee’s recommendations, it is, however, hoped that affirmative action and gender equality will be taken into consideration.

The committee has spent lengthy hours on this, and the MF is certain of the board’s efficiency. The MF supports the committee’s recommendation of persons to be appointed as 12 non-executive members of the SABC Board. Thank you.

Mr C AUCAMP: Hon Chairperson, the hon Pieterse said that the ANC was mandated for a better life, and will bring it about. However, it was not mandated to dominate every section of the whole society.

Dit is presies wat in hierdie geval gebeur het. Hierdie raad wat aan ons voorgehou word, weerspieël nie die diverse aard van die Suid-Afrikaanse samelewing nie. Ek moet ander sprekers ondersteun wat gesê het daar is geen Afrikaans-moedertaalspreker in hierdie komitee nie.

Ons kry baie keer dat dit lyk asof die President ‘n hand wil uitreik na die Afrikaner-gemeenskap toe, maar wanneer dit in die praktyk kom, word dit geïgnoreer. So byvoorbeeld in die Artikel 185-Kommissie is daar net een Afrikaner op, terwyl daar selfs uit die Griekse gemeenskap ‘n verteenwoordiger is, en uit die Joodse, twee of drie. Ons sien dat die ANC nie ernstig is om werklik die diversiteit van die land te verdiskonteer nie.

Almal moet lisensies betaal en die Afrikaanse mense, ‘n groot deel daarvan. Oor die TV op TV2 is Afrikaans ‘n terugtyd afgeskaal en die mark het die mense gedwing om dit terug te bring. Dieselfde sal gebeur met hierdie komitee. Ons ondersteun dit nie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[That is exactly what happened in this case. This council that is being held up to us does not reflect the diverse nature of South African society. I have to support other speakers who said that there is no Afrikaans mother- tongue speaker in this committee.

We often find that it seems as if the President wants to extend a hand to the Afrikaner community, but in practice it is ignored. For example, there is only one Afrikaner in the section 185 commission, whereas there is even a representative even from the Greek community, and two or three from the Jewish community. We see that the ANC is not really serious in its efforts truly to negotiate the diversity of the country.

Everyone has to pay licence fees and the Afrikaans people, a large portion of them. On the television on TV2 Afrikaans was scaled down a while ago and the market forced people to bring it back. The same will happen with this committee. We do not support it.]

Mr M K LEKGORO: Chairperson, let us put it on record that, regarding those of our interviewees who did not make it onto the board, it was not as a result of us passing a vote of no confidence in them. That we had short- listed them from the 138 candidates we had at the beginning of the process is a statement that they are amongst the best. We would like to thank them for participating in this process and availing themselves for this important board.

Having said that, I must say that it is rather regrettable for a member of Parliament to agree on a process set by this institution and to later vilify those who came through the same process. It is more so in bad taste when the member goes on to pick one white member of those who came through that same process as the only adequate candidate.

It is worse, and I think it borders on unethical behaviour, to stand out in public and mention people’s names as candidates that you might have preferred. You might, in your little mind, have thought that you made them feel good, but the flip side is that they might be embarrassed to be preferred by you. To any of those who are affected in this manner, we can only say that we apologise for the inconvenience they may have been caused.

Section 13(4)(a) to (d) of the Broadcasting Act directs that the board members, viewed together, should represent the various competencies relevant to broadcasting which are mentioned in subsection (a). They must be persons that are committed to fairness, freedom of expression, the right of the public to be informed, openness and accountability on the part of those holding public office. They must represent a broad cross-section of the population of the Republic. To this end, I am glad to report to the National Assembly that the committee has accomplished its task. We are also satisfied that we have attended to the issue of gender balance to a satisfactory level.

We went further to cater for the representivity of disabled people. The deaf of our country have made a considerable impact on the issue of captioning and subtitling. We are aware that they felt strongly that the matter would be given even more urgent attention if one of their own was on the board. We hope that through the one disabled member, and through the board as a whole, the matter will be attended to once and for all.

On the last day of our interviews, Mr Andrew Maralack, who had earlier withdrawn from our process, wrote a letter which stated that, and I quote:

Due to a change in my circumstances, I hereby withdraw my letter dated 15 September 2003 and declare my availability to serve on the SABC Board.

I took that letter to our parliamentary legal advisers for legal opinion. In their opinion, whether or not to consider interviewing Mr Andrew Maralack was a decision that the committee was competent to arrive at. The committee then, on the strength of this advice, voted in favour of interviewing Mr Andrew Maralack.

The merits and demerits of this decision depend on one’s point of view. Our viewpoint is that Mr Andrew Maralack was indeed short-listed to be interviewed. Among the short-listed, at least on paper as it stood in the CV, he was among the best in finances. He is a chartered accountant by profession. It is beyond any argument that for an institution like the SABC, which oversees such large sums of money, a competence in finance is a need. The second King report also pointed to this dire need in order for the board to be able to function.

Without politicking, and because we take the SABC Board with the seriousness it deserves, it is against this background that we agreed that, if it does not contradict the law, let us allow Mr Andrew Maralack to be interviewed.

Let me seize this opportunity to also clarify the myth spread by the opposition about the ANC loading the board with its members. Early in the days of the interviews, I could understand the fear of the opposition on this matter. I had formed an impression that because the ANC had nominated people to be interviewed for the board, the opposition was worried that they would all be appointed to the board. One would have thought that after the final selection of the board members had been made, the fear would have been taken care of. But, for some reason, this fear has been turned into a deliberate lie. Anyone who looks at the totality of the selected members of the board and publicly states that it is loaded with ANC members, is deliberately misleading the public. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Do you deny that?

Mr M K LEKGORO: Yes, the board might have people that you don’t like; the board might be without people you would have preferred, but that is democracy at work, isn’t it? Thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Question put: That the recommendation by the Portfolio Committee on Communications of S E Funde, A Gilwald, N Gosa, F Lagadien, A Maralack, E T Mazwai, A Mbeki, K Mkonza, C Msomi, C Qunta, D Swartz and A Trikamjee for appointment to the SABC Board be approved.

Division demanded.

The House divided:

AYES - 223: Abrahams, T; Abram, S; Ainslie, A R; Arendse, J D; Bapela, O; Benjamin, J; Booi, M S; Botha, N G W; Cachalia, I M; Carrim, Y I; Cassim, M F; Chalmers, J; Chauke, H P; Chiba, L; Chikane, M M; Chohan-Khota, F I; Cindi, N V; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Daniels, N; Davies, R H; De Lange, J H; Diale, L N; Didiza, A T; Dithebe, S L; Dlali, D M; Dlamini, B O; Du Toit, D C; Dyani, M M Z; Fankomo, F C; Fazzie, M H; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T; George, M E; Gerber, P A; Gillwald, C E; Gogotya, N J; Gomomo, P J; Goniwe, M T; Goosen, A D; Gxowa, N B; Hajaig, F; Hanekom, D A; Hendrickse, P A C; Hogan, B A; Jassat, E E; Jeebodh, T; Jeffery, J H; Joemat, R R; Jordan, Z P; Kalako, M U; Kasienyane, O R; Kasrils, R; Kati, J Z; Kgarimetsa, J J; Kgauwe, Q J; Kgwele, L M; Komphela, B M; Koornhof, G W; Kota, Z A; Kotwal, Z; Lamani, N E; Landers, L T; Lekgoro, M K; Lishivha, T E; Lobe, M C; Louw, J T; Louw, S K; Ludwabe, C I; Lyle, A G; Mabe, L L; Mabena, D C; Mabuyakhulu, V D; Magashule, E S; Magazi, M N; Magubane, N E; Mahlangu-Nkabinde, G L; Mahlawe, N; Maimane, D S; Maine, M S; Makasi, X C; Maloney, L; Maluleke-Hlaneki, C J; Malumise, M M; Manie, M S; Mapisa-Nqakula, N N; Martins, B A D; Masala, M M; Maserumule, F T; Masithela, N H; Masutha, M T; Mathebe, P M; Mathibela, N F; Matlanyane, H F; Matsepe-Casaburri, I F; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Maziya, M A; Mbadi, L M; Mbombo, N D; Mentor, M P; Meruti, V; Mnandi, P N; Mngomezulu, G P; Mnguni, B A; Mnumzana, S K; Moatshe, M S; Modise, T R; Modisenyane, L J; Moeketse, K M; Mofokeng, T R; Mohamed, I J; Mohlala, R J B; Mokoena, A D; Molebatsi, M A; Moloi, J; Moloto, K A; Mongwaketse, S J; Montsitsi, S D; Moonsamy, K; Moosa, M V; Morobi, D M; Moropa, R M; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Moss, M I; Mothoagae, P K; Motubatse-Hounkpatin, S D; Mpahlwa, M B; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mtsweni, N S; Mufamadi, F S; Mutsila, I; Mzondeki, M J G; Nair, B; Nash, J H; Ncinane, I Z; Ndou, R S; Ndzanga, R A; Nefolovhodwe, P J; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngaleka, E; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, N; Ngculu, L V J; Ngubeni, J M; Ngwenya, M L; Nhleko, N P; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njobe, M A A; Nonkonyana, M; Nqakula, C; Nqodi, S B; Ntombela, S H; Ntshulana-Bhengu, N R; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, J T; Ntuli, S B; Nwamitwa-Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, S N; Nzimande, L P M; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G G; Oliphant, M N; Omar, A M; Oosthuizen, G C; Phadagi, M G; Phala, M J; Phohlela, S; Pieterse, R D; Radebe, B A; Rajbally, S; Ramakaba-Lesiea, M M; Ramgobin, M; Ramotsamai, C M P; Rasmeni, S M; Ratsoma, M M; Ripinga, S S; Robertsen, M O; Routledge, N C; Rwexana, S P; Saloojee, E (Cassim); Schneeman, G D; Schoeman, E A; Sekgobela, P S; September, C C; September, R K; Shabangu, S; Sibande, M P; Sigcawu, A N; Sigwela, E M; Sikakane, M R; Sithole, D J; Sithole, P; Skhosana, W M; Smith, V G; Solo, B M; Solomon, G; Sonjica, B P; Sosibo, J E; Sotyu, M M; Tarr, M A; Thabethe, E; Tinto, B; Tolo, L J; Tshabalala-Msimang, M E; Tsheole, N M; Tshivhase, T J; Tshwete, P; Turok, B; Twala, N M; Vadi, I; Van Wyk, Annelizé; Van Wyk, J F; Van Wyk, N; Van den Heever, R P Z; Xingwana, L M T; Zita, L; Zondo, R P; Zuma, J G.

NOES - 58: Aucamp, C; Bakker, D M; Bell, B G; Blaas, A; Borman, G M; Botha, A J; Buthelezi, M G; Da Camara, M L; Dhlamini, B W; Doman, W P; Durand, J; Eglin, C W; Ellis, M J; Farrow, S B; Ferreira, E T; Geldenhuys, B L; Gibson, D H M; Gore, V C; Gous, S J; Greyling, C H F; Grobler, G A J; Herandien, C B; Jankielsohn, R; Johnson, C B; Lowe, C M; Madikiza, G T; Maluleke, D K; Mbuyazi, L R; McIntosh, G B D; Middleton, N S; Mogoba, M S; Morkel, C M; Mpontshane, A M; Mulder, P W A; Nel, A H; Ngema, M V; Ngiba, B C; Ntuli, R S; Olckers, M E; Pretorius, I J; Rabie, P J; Rabinowitz, R; Roopnarain, U; Schalkwyk, P J; Schoeman, R S; Seeco, M A; Selfe, J; Sibiya, M S M; Simmons, S; Smuts, M; Steele, M H; Swart, S N; Theron, J L; Van Wyk, Anna; Van der Merwe, A S; Vezi, T E; Waters, M; Zulu, N E.

Recommendation approved.

Appointment of S E Funde, A Gilwald, N Gosa, F Lagadien, A Maralack, E T Mazwai, A Mbeki, K Mkonza, C Msomi, C Qunta, D Swartz and A Trikamjee to SABC Board accordingly recommended.

THE HIGH INCIDENCE OF FATAL ROAD ACCIDENTS INVOLVING PUBLIC AND HEAVY-DUTY TRANSPORT

                      (Subject for Discussion)

Mr S B FARROW: Chairperson, firstly, let me thank the Speaker for allowing this debate to take place in what can only be described as a very busy parliamentary session. This debate is not only necessary, but also important, as the recent spate of accidents involving public transport and heavy vehicles has claimed the lives of drivers, commuters and innocent bystanders alike. Again, as the DA we would like to express our deepest sympathies to the families of those who lost their loved ones or were injured. With only weeks left before the Christmas holiday season starts, time is of the essence if we are to stop the carnage that lies ahead of us.

During the past 12 months, I have requested the Minister to organise a crisis summit on public and heavy-duty transport …

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! hon members, if you are leaving the House, can you do so quietly? Can we ask members to please take their seats? Hon members, please take your seats. Please continue, hon Farrow. Mr S B FARROW: The DA, at the very least, expected the Minister along with his nine MECs, as well as delegates from the taxi organisations and the heavy-duty freight organisations to call such a summit in order to put our heads together to stop the carnage on our roads. I noticed in press reports yesterday that the Minister did take heed of our suggestion and that a meeting of sorts took place on 17 November. However, it is unfortunate that the Minister did not involve the portfolio committee, as I believe that as parliamentarians facing the wrath of the public, we could have contributed significantly to that meeting.

A national campaign called “Operation Juggernaut” has been instituted by the Minister to check the roadworthiness of heavy and public transport on our roads. Although this is seen as a commendable effort with partial success so far, it does not address the real issues, namely: The reason why these vehicles are on the road in the first place; secondly, whether the drivers of these vehicles should even be allowed to drive them; and thirdly, what urgent steps can be taken to avoid accidents of a similar nature.

Leading from the Minister’s response to his question today, the question arises as to how or when these changes will be announced and implemented. Minister, there is one thing that I have in common with you, and I’m sure even the majority of members in this House too, and that is that we all want to see an end to this problem. Many others have seen or have known someone who has been involved in an accident of some sort. One of my colleagues, the right - I was going to say the ``right hon’’ - the hon Roy Jankielsohn nearly lost his life in a road accident recently. My own father was the victim of a fatal taxi-related accident some years ago.

The public is looking to us as leaders and legislators to find solutions to this wasteful and horrific loss of precious lives on our roads. The nearly 10 000 deaths a year - if you rely on the Arrive Alive figures - and the more realistic 18 400-plus deaths recorded by the Medical Research Council at provincial mortuaries, are among the worst road accident death rates in the world and cost our economy over R12 billion annually. During October alone, 1 200 people died on our roads. By comparison, in the whole of Australia, only 1 500 people died in the last 10 months.

As part of our effort towards road safety, the DA recently launched its policy document, ``On the move’’. Although it might not have all the answers, it certainly goes a long way towards addressing many of them. This document was networked over a number of months with as many stakeholders as possible, but sadly, your department chose not to take the invitation to contribute to the workshops that were held in Cape Town, Johannesburg and Durban. But many other organisations did. These included the SA National Tax Council, Santaco, the Automobile Association, Drive Alive, the CSIR, the SA Bureau of Standards, the truck freighters’ association, and many more. The objective of the workshop was to find practical and implementable solutions to all these matters pertaining to transport in our country. Transport policies are all very well in theory, provided that they can be implemented. Unfortunately, the department’s policies fall into this latter category, for if they could be implemented, we would be a lot closer to solving the huge death rate on our roads which, instead of declining appears to be escalating.

If I can just give the House an example: In 2000, one of the very first pieces of legislation I was involved in was the National Land Transport Transition Bill, something which the DA wholeheartedly supported as it would form the basis to regulate the taxi industry and put in motion the process to recapitalise the taxi industry. Sadly, we all know how this legislation has materialised. To date not a single taxi has rolled out and it doesn’t look likely to happen until the middle of next year.

Despite assurances of everything being on track, and that the industry had been fully democratised, communication problems still seem to exist. The present court order in favour of the KwaZulu-Natal taxi council, against the Department of Transport, which has to provide them with a memorandum of understanding, which was about to be signed, is a point in question. The DA has met with a number of taxi associations in most of the provinces, and a lack of consultation and a top-down approach concerning decisions affecting the livelihoods of 97 000 taxi operators in this country appear to be the order of the day. It is a travesty that too many role-players with direct interests in this industry have been sidelined and left out of the loop.

The net result is that the taxi operators have been forced to patiently await the arrival of their MTV, whilst limiting repairs and maintenance to their own fleets, in many instances making them unroadworthy. No one has bothered to investigate the manoeuvrability of the new, bigger vehicles, their low rate of acceleration, or the fact that they will be taking up to 1,3 times more road space per passenger than that of the minibus. The economic viability also has not been thoroughly researched. Under these circumstances and with the understanding that the taxi operators are not obliged to take the new vehicles, I beg to question how many of these vehicles will be taken up and really solve the problem that we face. Meanwhile, the taxi fleet gets older and older by the day.

Until the taxi recapitalisation project finally commences, the DA suggests that a phased campaign commences for all taxis over five years old, whereby thorough and vigorous roadworthy testing takes place before an operating licence is issued or re-issued. Subsequent road testing should therefore be mandatory on annual relicensing of that taxi. The same routine should be applicable for buses. Private sector garages could be requested to assist in this process. As an immediate step, all taxis, buses and heavy-duty vehicles should drive with their lights on to improve visibility to both other road users and pedestrians alike.

The second piece of legislation, which the DA supported, was the Road Traffic Management Corporation Bill. That Bill was also passed by this House in 2000. As I speak today, we have a CEO and a few support staff costing this country and its long-suffering taxpayers R794 000 per annum; yet there is no business plan in sight, and little or no co-ordination of road safety is taking place from that office. It is a serious indictment on this House to know that only R6 million out of an estimated R57 million has been budgeted by the department to get this corporation up and running.

We still sit with an estimated shortfall of 30 000 traffic officers, and heavy vehicles continue to bypass fixed weight-bridges on our roads, causing untold damage to surfaces. Vehicle roadworthy testing and licensing stations, which was also one of the key focus areas, still leave a lot to be desired. How serious are we in addressing these problems? And how long will it be before we see this new national traffic force that the Minister refers to on our roads, and the budget to support that particular agency?

There can be no more important step that we can take in the forthcoming months than to redeploy every available traffic officer onto our main routes to ensure maximum visibility and enforcement. Camera traps cannot spot dangerous driving, drunken driving, missing head lamps, taillights, bald tyres, unlicensed vehicles and drivers, and unroadworthy vehicles that experienced traffic officers and video cameras can.

Over and above this, I truly believe that 100 inspecting engineers of the department, specially trained in what to look out for and with the authority to suspend operating licences, would end the use of unsafe heavy vehicles on our roads in six months, if properly co-ordinated. Serious offenders must be penalised and owners charged under the Criminal Offences Act. A serious appeal must go out to all transporters, requesting them to self-police the industry or face the consequences. These officers should be seen to be checking drivers and the hours spent on the roads to ensure that drivers are not exceeding the permissible or prescribed driving hours behind the wheel. All public transporters on long-distance hauls must have obligatory co-drivers. This is something that can be regulated immediately and would have a marked effect on road safety.

The Occupational Health and Safety Act must also be taken into consideration in respect of working hours. We do not have to re-invent the wheel. We only have to introduce a couple of recognised innovations and developments relating to safe public transport to make our roads safer. The sooner we do it, the better.

In Zimbabwe, for instance, they have already legislated as mandatory the use of safety tyre bands. In South Africa, 32% of accidents are caused by tyre failure. These products are known to reduce fatalities by 70% to 80%, as they prevent the tyres from coming off when punctured. The costs are minimal.

Private and fleet operators should seriously consider fitting these bands as part of their contribution to road safety. Daytime running lights, which I referred to earlier, should be enforced immediately, as the Minister did for motorcycles some years ago. That, in fact, had a tremendous result as far as accidents are concerned. It is known that in countries where daytime running lights are used and tested, a 30% reduction occurs in head-on collisions.

Finally, let me say something about the more serious problem which needs long-term solutions. This is the problem of educational driver training and a behavioural change of our drivers and the impact of HIV/Aids and other related illnesses. It is a well-known fact that developing a culture of road safety must begin at school, where children should be taught the basics. Programmes must teach school groups about road hazards and the road codes, encourage the wearing of reflective armbands and provide basic driving instruction to older children. We must have a hard-sell attitude to the road safety message and it must be pumped to the general public via TV, radio, newspaper features, billboards and forecourt advertising at petrol stations along main travel and transport routes. Emphasis must be placed on the wearing of both front and back seat belts, not driving or walking under the influence of alcohol and not using cellphones. I’m sure that the department can enter into some collaboration with the fuel distribution companies to assist in this campaign. After all, every vehicle, at some stage or other in its journey, has to go and refuel.

Educational programmes must be accompanied by zero-tolerance towards dangerous driving. For this to work, traffic officers must be seen to be doing their jobs. A 24-hour toll-free number that responds to the public reporting serious accidents is actually working. I think that those are the sorts of issues that need to be taken seriously.

A loss of competent and experienced drivers to HIV/Aids cannot be ignored. We must ensure that truck stops are available on major routes, to ensure that drivers can sleep, wash and eat - to reduce the fatigue that they experience. All relevant information on the disease, together with condoms, should be available in order to educate drivers and sex workers operating on these routes. Many of the problems faced by the transport industry are caused by inexperienced drivers having fallen victims to Aids. And this has resulted in many younger drivers having to take the wheel. The DA believes in an apprenticeship or mentoring scheme for all public and private transporters to be enforced by regulation to allow these drivers to gain experience. Setas can assist here.

In summary, there are many urgent interventions that can take place in saving the lives of our people during the next few weeks. And I appeal once again to the Minister to call for us to come together and think about how we can resolve this, because if we don’t, Minister, I’m afraid once again you will be held accountable. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr J P CRONIN: Chairperson, on behalf of the ANC, I would like to thank Mr Farrow for tabling this matter for a snap debate. I think we welcome the chance, as the ANC, to try to reflect, collectively, across party divides and so forth, upon the high incidence of fatal road accidents, particularly those involving public transport vehicles and heavy duty transport.

The Sunday Times, two and half weeks ago, had an interesting, and I think important, editorial. It said that road travel is possibly the most extensively regulated aspect of our lives: Vehicles must be roadworthy and licensed each year; laws regulate the depth of treaded tyres, the state of lights, indicators and brakes, even the tinting of windscreens; and there are laws about how many people or how much cargo a specific vehicle may carry.

Drivers must past tests and get their licences which specify exactly what types of vehicles they may drive; the roadsides are littered, says the Sunday Times, with signs which it is a criminal offence to disobey; speed is regulated on city streets and on highways; you may not drive too fast and you may not drive too slowly, etc.

Despite all of these regulations, South Africans kill their countrymen - and I would add countrywomen - with shocking frequency each year. “What is the problem?”, asks the Sunday Times.

The temptation, says the Sunday Times, in a country that is still emerging from an era of totalitarian rule is to blame the authorities for failing to police the laws. It is, after all, the traffic police who are supposed to see to it that cars are roadworthy, that drivers are licensed and that the rules of the road are obeyed.

This is true, it says, but it fails to identify the problem satisfactorily. The authorities, according to the newspaper, and not me, have in fact responded very well to the need for policing. Millions in extra funding are spent over the festive season to see to it that more officers are on patrol, that more speed traps are set, that more motorists are pulled aside and checked, and yet the killing goes on.

The real problem is that many, perhaps most, of the people who are expected to obey the law - the drivers and the owners of vehicles - do not have the self-discipline or the mental strength to do so of their own volition. They see the traffic police as a force to be despised, avoided, outwitted and mocked. When there are no police visible, they place themselves, their families and other road users in peril because somewhere in their curiously ordered psyches they find pleasure in defying the law. Only when we understand and obey the law, without prompting, will we arrive alive.

I think this a very salutary conclusion. It is saying that we are too quick in South Africa to blame authorities. As I heard an ANC speaker in the previous debate say, “Minister Dullar Omar is not behind the wheel of the buses, the minibuses and so forth”. I think that it is in this spirit in particular that we would like, as the ANC, to enter into this debate.

The opinion of the Sunday Times is confirmed by these statistics: 90% of serious accidents relate to traffic offences; that is, it is not because something unfortunately went wrong which was unpredictable or unavoidable. In 90% of the cases there has been an active traffic offence of one kind or another on the part of the driver or on the part of an owner or employer. There is road rage; there is carelessness, arrogance; there is the taking of chances; there is drinking, and so forth.

We live in a society, unfortunately, in which life is often held cheap. And I have said in previous debates, we also live in a society where the urban planning is a recipe for serious accidents. We have massive townships, sprawling squatter camps surrounded by extremely fast freeway systems. All of these are recipes for serious problems.

It is also important, Mr Farrow and others, to keep a sense of proportion because otherwise we could easily become absolutely despondent. There is no way that any of us would deny that the levels of accidents on our roads are unacceptably high, absolutely. However, the statistics - and they are not entirely reliable - we do have suggest that in terms of kilometres travelled per vehicle, there has been a steady and significant decline over the past decade, and let us hope that we can continue to do that.

The first key point that we want to make, Minister, is that at the root of the attitude is the culture of South Africans on the road: our attitudes to cars, vehicles, our roads, our passengers and to each other. A key responsibility in this is often, in our view, caused by advertisements; for instance, car advertisements. I think many of us turning on televisions or listening to the radio will note that many car advertisements encourage high speed and reckless driving, and associate those things with male virility, with physical prowess and so forth.

But there are other examples of reckless advertising. I have here in front of me a copy of the latest Sawubona, that is distributed by SAA. The headline of an advertisement carried in Sawubona reads:

The Zulu Kingdom welcomes reckless drivers. If you like driving you are going to love the Zulu Kingdom.

[Interjections.] I’ll tell you in a moment who it is.

Long and winding, straight or narrow, slow or fast, you will find that the trip is as pleasurable as the end result of you getting there. Situated on the East Coast of South Africa is this wonderful natural wonderland that embraces a free spirit. Here is absolutely no reason to fiddle with a safety belt. No speed limit and certainly no restrictions as to the driving tactics that you employ. Come to KwaZulu-Natal: Push your driving skills to the limit! Only in the Zulu Kingdom, South Africa!

It is actually an advertisement for golf; to encourage people to come and play golf in KwaZulu-Natal. It is taken up by Tourism KwaZulu-Natal, and if I am not mistaken it falls under the MEC for economic affairs, Roger Burrows, your associate. I hope that in your consultation process about driving, Mr Farrow, perhaps you forgot to consult Roger Burrows in the process. There is clearly no understanding of the responsibilities that we need to take in terms of encouraging safer driving. [Applause.]

But, of course, it is shocking. It is meant to be a joke, and so on. But to say that public attitudes, public conduct and the fostering of decent public attitudes surrounding a driver are very important, does not and must not, obviously, excuse Government in all its three spheres: national, provincial and local. In the first place visible policing, as Mr Farrow has correctly said, is one of the most effective ways of encouraging, sustaining and fostering changed public attitudes, unfortunately. We shouldn’t have to be reminded by the presence of police, but in the reality that we live in, having visible policing on our roads is a very important factor in assisting us to be encouraged to think more constructively about how we use our roads.

A few weeks back, Minister, in my constituency which, as you know, is out in Eerste River, Blue Downs, somewhere on the Cape Flats, I was approached by the Eerste River Taxi Association and they said: “Can we get to the Minister?” I said, well, I don’t know, but perhaps I can help, and asked them what the problem was. And they said that there was a problem of pirate taxis operating there in Eerste River, and they wanted the Minister to come and sort it out. They even implied that there might be some trouble if the Minister was not able to sort it out. I said to them - I hope that I was right, Minister - look, I think the Minister would like to help, but this is a matter that has to be sorted out at the local level. In the first instance that is what we have to do.

I approached the community policing forum, my colleagues and comrades there. I approached the local police station, a satellite police station, Kleinvlei, which is linked to Kuilsriver. We also approached the Metro police who have joint responsibility in Cape Town for overseeing traffic offences, as well as the local development forum in Eerste River, Bluedowns.

What was very encouraging was that they all came to this meeting, including the Eerste River Taxi Association. The problem of this association was that there were three or four pirate taxis that were operating in the area. They have knowledge of the local area, so they were able to say exactly who it was and what colour their minibuses were and so forth.

The police then came. I was really pleased to see the senior officer from Kuilsriver, outside the area, overseeing the satellite station, and a senior from the Metro police who took time off from detaining Sactu workers who were protesting outside the Cape Town Airport - well, that is another matter - to attend this meeting.

What the police said to us - both the local police and the Metro police - was that they agreed with them and that they would certainly come into that area and would look for pirate taxis, but they wanted to tell the Eerste River Taxi Association that they would not discriminate; they will look at all taxis, and if a taxi was unroadworthy or a driver was driving dangerously, and so on, then they had invited lightning onto their own heads.

The Eerste River Taxi Association accepted this in good spirit, and correctly so. They said this was indeed part of their plans, and I now realise that what they were talking about was Operation Juggernaut, which the department, in conjunction with many others, has now launched on 9 November to support Arrive Alive, if I understand correctly. If I understand correctly, the idea of Operation Juggernaut is aimed, in this month of November, at finding unfit drivers, and unfit and unroadworthy trucks, buses and minibuses so that we get those off the road ahead of the festive season.

An unroadworthy vehicle will be suspended on the spot. There is a 24-hour rolling operation. This is not just a couple of hours here and there, and it will roll right through till 29 November. And then in December, and all the way through to January, the same operation will extend to other things, broadening the spectrum and looking at drunken driving and so forth.

This morning I was nearly late for my portfolio committee meeting because at the intersection of Klipfontein and Liesbeek ParkWay, there they were, out in force, pulling off minibuses. I saw they were taking breathalyser tests and so on. So, there on the ground, certainly, in my experience, whether in my constituency or on my way to work, we are seeing Operation Juggernaut, not as a theory, but actually being rolled out. One really commends the department and wishes them well in taking this forward.

All of this is not going to work unless, of course, we have the co- operation of all stakeholders in this process. It is not just about traffic policing or the department; it’s about the owners, the operators, the taxi formations, the AA and so forth. Therefore, I was very happy, along with Mr Farrow, who felt that he had convened the meeting but was not invited to it. I was very pleased to see, Minister, that you had taken the initiative on Monday, 17 November, to convene what I think is called a road traffic safety board meeting, which involved a wide range of stakeholders, in order to encourage them to buy in to this important, concrete and specific campaign.

There is one aspect that I would like particularly to highlight in all of this. I think that as the Minister, you are sensitive to this. I am actually wearing my Cosatu tie, to remember that amongst the victims in the terrible accidents that have happened were Cosatu workers on their way to a May Day rally. They are not the only victims, alas, but were also involved in a very significant and tragic accident at Saulspoort. So that is partly why I thought I should wear my tie today. But it is also for another reason.

Drivers are frequently blamed, and sometimes they are to blame. Sometimes, however, the real origin of bad driving lies elsewhere, namely in the long, long hours of driving; very poor working conditions for many of them; being compelled to drive in vehicles that are unroadworthy, but being desperate for a job and feeling they have little say over the matter; and the neglect of training, and here the responsibility lies very firmly with owners and employers in particular, who often pursue profits. In a capitalist society that is a legitimate pursuit, no doubt, but often that pursuit overrides safety issues.

Therefore we welcome the intention of the department to introduce measures quite soon whereby we would not just suspend or cancel licences of drivers, but also possibly of suspend and even cancel operating licences, because the owners and employers, when they are unscrupulous and pursue profit at any price, must also suffer very seriously.

We also need, and I know the Minister is looking at this, to use Teta, the Transport Education Training Authority, to ensure that drivers are equipped, skilled and so forth. I also believe that you are working closely with the Department of Labour to draft an appropriate definition of working conditions so that we can set regulations for working conditions in this area. I am sure that you will also bring the trade union movement into looking at safety for drivers.

There are, of course, some areas of concern. You are well aware, Minister, that we would like to see the road traffic management corporation up and running and, if not, if it is proven to be a model that is not working, that a decision be made in that direction. It is a point that we have been making and we would like to use this opportunity. We would also like to see the points demerit system in operation.

In conclusion, I might be guilty of politicising the matter, but at the end of the day, let us not politicise it. This is a concern for all South Africans; that is the position of the ANC. We encourage all South Africans, regardless of political and other affiliation, please to work together, to change attitudes and to co-operate with the authorities. And let us all have a safe festive season and arrive alive. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Prince N E ZULU: Mr Chairperson, hon Ministers and colleagues, it is not uncommon in South Africa to talk about road fatalities involving public and heavy-duty transport. It has been embedded in our thought system that we always hold our breath at Easter and Christmas time.

Road users behave recklessly during these seasons with the belief that their ill-mannered behaviour will be understood within the context of a season. In a human rights culture there is no such thing as seasonal death or seasonal fatality.

We deplore the publicity given to the KwaZulu Kingdom, as has been demonstrated here by the last speaker, in the Sawubona magazine. It’s unfortunate that this publicity, bad as it is, has been carried out so widely on the South African airwaves.

Lately we have seen a string of uncalled-for fatalities, including 12 deaths in Limpopo, 6 in KZN and 10 in the Karoo, as well as 15 injured in the Free State, to name but a few. The IFP expresses its sympathies to all the families of the victims of these fatalities.

Is it because it is in our system to understand and tolerate such bad driving behaviour? The answer is no. We believe that all avenues have been explored to address this issue. We have seen traffic officers being arrested for allowing laxity through bribes. We also have the Arrive Alive campaign, Operation Mpimpa, Zero Tolerance in KZN, and Don’t Drink and Drive countrywide. All these are very powerful campaigns. In a normal driver society and human-rights-respecting culture, they would have worked.

Those who travel by air have inner peace, though this is supposed to impose a near-fatal thought to the passenger. But the reality is that with public, heavy-duty and road transport, everyone begins to calculate the plusses, divisions and minuses, as soon as he or she thinks about taking a trip, because death is just the blink of an eye away. It has, of late, become important for a well-behaved road user to make a decision on which route to take, the type of car to drive, its mechanical state, or even how fast he drives. In all fairness, the Government has done its share in addressing the situation and we cannot, and should not, blame any one person more than we should blame ourselves individually and severally as road users.

Our attitudes should change, for the future of our society. Perhaps a few suggestions might work. Uneconomical as it may seem, we need to legislate retraining of road users from time to time. If this is done, from time to time, for aviation transport worldwide, why can’t it be good to do it for road transport?

We also need to think about setting aside lanes for public and heavy-duty vehicles. Thorough research should also be undertaken as to whether it is not possible to get a safety feature, or device, that will detect impaired driving performance to alert the driver that he or she is bordering on crashing the vehicle. We accept the penalty decided on by the national Minister of Transport, together with the provincial transport MECs, and various transport industry stakeholders on Monday, in Midrand, of six years’ imprisonment or a R120 000 fine, or both, which will be given for drunken driving during the festive season. Even though our drivers have no regard for the law, when one is languishing in jail because of a sheer mistake and because of the fact that the fine is unaffordable to most reckless drivers, it will bring some sense for the future.

It is the taxi, bus and truck drivers who mostly commit these offences, not the owners of companies or operators they work for, who may afford to pay this fine. We thank you, Mr Minister, for informing the House this afternoon of the measures to be taken on our roads. However, can you inculcate a new culture of traffic policy, namely for cops to be visible throughout the length and breadth of our roads, rather than hide behind a tree to trap speeding drivers at that particular point only, while many traffic offences are being committed elsewhere on the road? I thank you. [Applause.] Mnr C B HERANDIEN: Meneer die Voorsitter, ek vereenselwig my graag met vorige sprekers wat hulle kommer uitgespreek het oor die slagting op ons paaie. Die aankondigings wat die Minister vanmiddag gedoen het tydens vraetyd oor sekere maatreëls wat getref gaan word om te help om te verseker dat ons paaie veiliger word, is ook te verwelkom.

Ek wil tog reg aan die begin vra dat die Minister vir ons werklikwaar so gou doenlik meer besonderhede beskikbaar sal stel, asook die datum wanneer hierdie goed in werking gaan tree. Maar, meneer die Voorsitter, met alle respek, hierdie is die korttermynoplossings wat op die tafel geplaas word. Ek dink die tyd het aangebreek dat ons, soos wat vorige sprekers ook reeds voorgestel het, om ‘n tafel gaan sit en ‘n lang- en mediumtermynbeplanning op die tafel plaas sodat hierdie klomp wapens van massavernietiging permanent van ons paaie verwyder kan word, want ons het infrastruktuur wat weliswaar opgeknap kan word.

Die tyd het aangebreek dat ons weer behoorlik gebruik maak van ons spoornetwerk. Hoe langer ons aanhou, hoe swakker sal die situasie raak. Meneer, dit is ‘n alombekende feit dat om een kilometer teerpad te bou, R6 miljoen kos. Om hom te rehabiliteer, kos R2,5 miljoen. Om net een kilometer teerpad te herseël, kos R1,2 miljoen. Dit is die koste wat veroorsaak word deur oorlaaide, oorgewig vragmotors op ons paaie wat ook ‘n gedeelte bydra tot die slagting op ons paaie. Ons kan dit verhoed deur hierdie mense van ons paaie af te haal.

Baie sprekers, en ons stem daarmee saam, het al gepraat oor die onpadwaardigheid van voertuie. Dit is die een enkele grootste oorsaak wat aanleiding gee tot ongelukke. En diegene van u wat gereeld op die pad van die dood tussen Laingsburg en Beaufort-Wes ry, sal met my saamstem dat daar maniere is hoe ons hierdie probleem kan oplos.

In die eerste plek, meneer, het ons in die jare sewentig, en u sal goed onthou, ‘n ligte-toetsingveldtog gehad. Vandag as jy op die nasionale paaie ry, is hierdie vragmotors se hoofligte ver in die toekoms ingestel sodat hy betyds die verkeersman kan sien. En die moment as hy die ligte domp, gooi hy hom vol op jou as motorbestuurder se gesig wat jou totaal verblind. Dit is een van die oorsake van ongelukke. Ons behoort, en ek wil staan daar by

• mits ons spoornetwerk regkom - hierdie voertuie van die paaie af te verwyder sekere tye van die dag, veral ná sononder.

‘n Ander ding wat ook aandag behoort te geniet - en die agb Jeremy Cronin het verwys na wat in die Sunday Times geskryf gestaan het - is dat padverkeer die mees gereguleerde ding in ons land is, maar dat dit die meeste oortree moet word. Maar ons kan gerus daarna kyk - weer eens verwys ek na die pad van die dood. Dit is mos net eenvoudig nie menslik moontlik as tien van hierdie voorhakers teen ‘n spoed van 120km per uur 20 of 30 meter uitmekaar soos ‘n lang trein daar op daardie pad aangaan nie. Dit maak ander motoriste mismoedig. Mense vat kanse en probeer verbysteek, en wanneer hulle langs hierdie ding kom, besef hulle dis hopeloos te laat en dis doodsgevaarlik.

Ons behoort, noudat u die stilhouplekke ingestel het - ek weet dis meer werk wat nodig is - dit so te reguleer dat daar te alle tye nie binne een kilometer van mekaar af van hierdie lang vragmotors op die pad behoort te wees nie. Ek weet die padvervoermense gaan huil daaroor - hulle praat van hulle geld. Maar dit was makliker vir my die afgelope week ter voorbereiding van hierdie toespraak om ‘n tender te kry om ‘n vrag te vervoer na Johannesburg. Die antwoord was maklik. Die padvervoermense kon ‘n antwoord gee, maar by die spoornetwerk kon ek geen antwoord kry nie.

En dan die laaste ding, daar waar weegbrûe, en ek is bly u het aangekondig dat daar mobiele weegtoestelle gaan wees, meneer … (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr C B HERANDIEN: Mr Chairman, I would like to associate myself with previous speakers who expressed their concern about the carnage on our roads. The announcements that the Minister made today during Question Time about certain measures that will be taken to help to ensure that our roads become safer are also to be welcomed.

Right at the outset I want to ask that the Minister really will provide us with more details as soon as possible, as well as inform us of the date when these things are going to be implemented. But, Mr Chairman, with all due respect, these are short-term solutions that are being tabled. I think the time has come for us to go and sit around a table, as previous speakers have already suggested as well, and come up with long- and medium-term planning so that this lot of weapons of mass destruction can be removed permanently from our roads, because we do indeed have infrastructure that could be upgraded.

The time has come for us to utilise our railway network properly once again. The longer we continue, the worse the situation will become. Sir, it is a well-known fact that it costs R6 million to build one kilometre of tarred road. To rehabilitate it costs R2, 5 million. To reseal only one kilometre of tarred road costs R1, 2 million. This is the cost caused by overloaded, overweight trucks on our roads, which also contribute partially to the carnage on our roads. We can prevent this by removing these people from our roads.

Many speakers have already spoken about the unroadworthiness of vehicles, and we agree with that. This is the single biggest cause of accidents. And those of you who travel regularly on the road of death between Laingsburg and Beaufort West will agree with me that there are ways in which we can resolve this problem.

In the first place, Sir, we had, and you will remember well, a light- testing campaign in the seventies. If one travels on the national roads today, one notices that the headlights of these trucks are focused far into the future so that the driver can see the traffic officer in time. And the moment he dims the lights, he casts his lights straight in one’s face, as driver, and this blinds one completely. This is one of the causes of accidents. We should, and I want to insist on this - if our railway network is restored - remove these vehicles from our roads during certain times of the day, especially after sundown.

Another thing that should receive attention - and the hon Jeremy Cronin referred to what was written in the Sunday Times - is that road traffic is the most regulated thing in our country, but that it must be the one that is broken most often. But we can really look at it - once again I am referring to the road of death. Surely things simply become humanly impossible when ten of these articulated vehicles travel at a speed of 120km per hour 20 to 30 metres from one another, like a long train on that road. It disheartens other motorists. People take chances and try to pass them, and when they come alongside this thing they realise it is hopeless too late and it is deadly dangerous.

Now that you have established the stopping-places, we should - I know more work is needed - regulate them in such a way that these long trucks should, at all times, not be within one kilometre of one another on the road. I know the road transport people will cry about it - they talk about their money. But during the past week, in preparation for this speech, it was easier for me to obtain a tender to transport a load to Johannesburg. The answer was easy. The road transport people could give an answer, but I could not get any answer out of the railway network.

And then the last thing, where there are weigh-bridges, and I am glad you have announced that there will be mobile weighing devices, Sir …]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order, hon member, your time has expired.

Mr C B HERANDIEN: Ek dank u, mnr die Voorsitter. [Applous.] [I thank you, Mr Chairman. [Applause.]]

Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, travelling on South African roads has become hazardous, with an increase in unsafe vehicles, road surfaces and human error. The recent spate of road accidents involving heavy freight trucks requires urgent intervention. We also wish to express our sympathies to the families of those who died and were injured in these collisions.

Road accidents in South Africa cost the lives of 12 000 persons annually, and although the Arrive Alive campaign posits success through its initiatives, the question still remains, “Why such high accident rates?”. There can be no doubt that to control road accidents the adequacy of driver training and testing must be reviewed.

South African drivers are purported to be below the accepted standard of driver proficiency and professionalism. They have even less competence in adequate collision avoidance driving techniques. Besides having roadworthy and sound mechanical vehicles, companies should be compelled to equip drivers with adequate resources for rest to avoid fatigue. And I would join the previous speaker who suggested that during evenings heavy vehicles should be compelled to go alongside the road.

Drivers should also be required to undergo regular health checks. The department must insist that all companies keep an updated record of the wellbeing of their drivers. Something must also be done about the serious levels of HIV/Aids among truck drivers.

The festive season is upon us and we trust that the department will do everything in its power to effect appropriate law enforcement. We consequently welcome the Juggernaut campaign. However, as pointed out by previous speakers, it is a matter of personal conscience for all road users to obey the law, irrespective of whether there is a law-enforcement officer present. We must be responsible road users and show respect and consideration for one another and our public roads in order to arrive alive. Thank you.

Ms C M P RAMOTSAMAI: Chairperson, South Africa is regarded as one country with the best infrastructure in Africa, one aspect of that being the roads. But over the years that has not given us a clean bill of health with regard to fatal accidents that occur on these roads.

The recent spate of fatal accidents, particularly those affecting trucks, leaves much to be desired. It is impossible at this stage to say which factors contributed to the accidents, but the following reasons are the biggest contributors: traffic violations and driving under the influence of alcohol.

These fatal accidents bring human tragedy and serious social consequences to families, particularly those that are already affected by poverty. All our road users have to take co-responsibility for what is happening on our roads. We need to co-operate to make our road environment safe for ourselves and also for the other road users. Every vehicle owner has to keep his or her vehicle in a roadworthy condition. We also have to treat others with respect on the road, as we would like to be treated.

The accident that occurred on 20 October 2003 at Tugela Ferry which saw 17 people killed and 13 others injured, could have been avoided. Again, it was a drunken driver who decided to disregard the rule of law by recklessly driving while under the influence of liquor.

The pensioners who were involved in that accident were queuing to collect their grants from a mobile unit when a truck tried to overtake another truck. The hawkers there, who are the breadwinners of their families, and the pensioners whose families depend on their meagre income, had to suffer because of the recklessness of one individual.

In this case, I would like to thank Minister Zola Skweyiya for his prompt response in this matter. The Minister quickly assembled a team to assist the victims and their families to lessen the burden of the funeral costs.

The consequences of reckless driving have a long-term impact on the affected families, while the perpetrator is going on with his life. We need our courts to take traffic offences seriously and impose harsh sentences on those road users who endanger the lives of others.

These human tragedies place an unbearable burden, again, on the families, the community and also the Government. Perhaps the DA should stop using these to play party politics with regard to such a sensitive issue. How many people do each one of us in this House know whose disabilities were caused by reckless driving? Many of those people are breadwinners.

The consequences of this for these families cannot be costed. Through these tragedies, families have broken up. Young children have lost opportunities to go to school. Some had to drop out of school and become beggars on the streets. Other victims resort to alcohol owing to denial, frustration and depression brought about by the negative changes in their lives. All those positive dreams that they had about their future and the future of their families have been squashed by an individual who did not have respect for others on the road.

Many of the above people now depend on a meagre grant that Government provides, and have to take care of their families and all their needs on the little that they get. In many cases, some of these people, even those who were well-off, lose their houses and their investments because all the investments that they had accumulated over the years have to be used to cover the basic needs. Indeed, serious punishment has to be imposed on defaulters.

I want to thank the Minister for the recent decision that he took, with the MECs, to actually increase the minimum sentence for these defaulters. Sometimes all of us disregard the law and think that talking on a cellphone without proper equipment while driving, and not wearing seat belts are minor offences. We must always remember that it can have serious consequences for ourselves and for other people as well.

Poor people sometimes cannot afford to drive roadworthy vehicles and put their lives and other people’s lives in danger. In all townships you find many unroadworthy vehicles on the road, and a disregard for the law. I call on municipalities to put more resources where they are needed most and minimise possible accidents on the roads.

Owners of vehicles in every corner of South Africa, even in the townships, have to ensure that their vehicles are safe and are taken for regular roadworthy testing, and the law enforcement officers must enforce the law.

The Department of Transport has undertaken a number of campaigns to minimise road accidents. Arrive Alive and Operation Juggernaut are but two. The Minister announced that next year a call centre to report drivers who endanger lives on the road will be operational. All these and other measures that the Government puts in place to make our roads safe are futile exercises if road users themselves behave irresponsibly on the road.

Government cannot be blamed for all accidents. I urge all road users, particularly drivers who drive unroadworthy vehicles, to observe the rule of law. In a few weeks’ time, we will be starting our festive season and many people will be travelling to different places to spend Christmas with their families and friends, many of whom do not have vehicles of their own, but depend on public transport.

I urge people to choose safer means of transport. They must refuse to be bundled into overloaded buses and taxis, and report these to the appropriate authorities. For instance, the Department of Transport, I think, Mr Minister, must at least have a 24-hour service. I know the Minister knows places like Langa and Philippi, from which areas most buses and taxes depart, ferrying people from Cape Town to the Eastern Cape. What is happening in those places is that, owing to the demand, buses that have not been on the road for a long time decide to come and actually transport people. These are the ones that cause accidents on the road.

We have to actually make sure that we nip this in the bud and not allow them even to move from the spot where they are. The danger that these accidents pose is actually serious and is very costly to the country and its people, and in money terms it cannot be costed.

In this case, we wish all our people a happy Christmas and new year, but we must make sure that while they enjoy it, they still have to take care of their lives because there are so many other people out there who actually would want to use this period to take other people’s lives and cause so many people to be disabled and unable to look after themselves.

Let us all be good and responsible citizens and make sure that our roads are safe for ourselves and other people. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr G T MADIKIZA: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, without overstating semantics, I have to point out that the word “accident” originally meant an unforeseen and unfortunate incident.

When a large vehicle is overloaded, unroadworthy and speeding, and a collision or crash occurs, it is no accident. The essence of road safety is responsibility. When we speak of preventable and unnecessary road deaths as accidents, we acknowledge the lack of responsibility by many road users and members of the traffic authority.

A culture of carelessness has become acceptable on our roads. Too many vehicle owners and drivers, including, but not limited to heavy-duty and public transport, simply do not bother to comply with the law. On the one hand, many traffic authorities do not bother with enforcing the law in its entirety. Under such circumstances it is no accident that tens of thousands of South Africans die on our roads every year.

The problem is not the lack of laws, but rather a permissive attitude by drivers and some authorities alike. A mindset has developed in which otherwise responsible road users are beginning to say: “Everybody does it, so why can’t we?”

Can any of us honestly say that in a single day on our roads we do not see drivers who jump red traffic lights, tailgate vehicles in front of them, neglect to use indicators, do not wear seat belts or drive with a cellular phone pressed against their ear?

Twice a year, the Government spends millions on campaigns that mostly focus on speeding. For the rest of the year, speed trapping and parking fines seem to be the sole activity of most traffic authorities. At some point we need to acknowledge that two million speed traps will not stop the carnage, because speeding is just one factor in the road deaths. I thank you. [Time expired.]

Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Agbare mnr die Voorsitter, verskeie sprekers het hier gesê dat die vervoersektor basies die sektor is wat die meeste gereguleer word. Ek wil vir die agb Minister sê as ons praat oor padongelukke, spesifiek wat taxi’s en swaarvoertuie betref, gaan dit oor die aspek van wetstoepassing.

‘n Agb lid het hier verwys na die pad van die dood. Dit is ‘n 200km stuk pad op die N1 tussen Beaufort-Wes en Laingsburg. Ek wil die agb Minister uitnooi om op van ‘n Donderdag af, sê so twee uur, tot en met die Vrydagaand twee uur op daardie pad te wees. Ek sal vir u sê die aantal taxi’s wat daar verbykom, veral in die dag, 98% van hulle is oorlaai, 90% van hulle se ligte werk nie behoorlik nie, want die probleem is wetstoepassing hou agtuur die aand op. Ek wil vir die agb Minister vra om te kyk dat daar langer wetstoepassing gedoen word.

Ek is oortuig dat as die wetstoepassing daar toegepas word daar letterlik miljoene rande uit boetes gemaak sal word en dan wil ek vir die agb Minister sê daardie geld moet aangewend word om verkeersbeamptes behoorlik op te lei. Ek dink dit is skandalig as ‘n mens in ‘n koerant moet lees van ‘n verkeersbeampte wat ‘n persoon ‘n boetekaartjie gee omdat sy remligte brand as hy die rem trap, of dat sy truligte brand as sy voertuig in trurat is. Ek dink dit is skandalig. Ons sal daarna moet kyk.

‘n Verdere aspek, ek wil vir die agb Minister sê daar is ‘n weegbrug op die N12 net buite Potchefstroom wat meer buite werking is as wat hy in werking is. Dit het ongeveer twee jaar gevat vandat hulle hom gebou en miljoene rande daaraan gespandeer het, maar hy werk nie en daarom wil ek vir die agb Minister sê as ons dit begin toepas dan sal ons beter verkeersreëls op ons paaie kan begin toepas. Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Hon Chairperson, various speakers have said here that the transport sector is basically the sector that is regulated the most. I want to tell the hon Minister that when we speak of road accidents, specifically those involving taxis and heavy vehicles, it concerns the aspect of law enforcement.

An hon member has made reference to the road of death. It is a stretch of road 200km long on the N1 between Beaufort West and Laingsburg. I would like to invite the hon Minister be on that road from a Thursday, let’s say about two o’clock, until Friday night at two o’clock. I will tell you that of the taxis that pass there, particularly during the day, 98% are overloaded, and 90% of them do not have lights that function properly, because the problem is that law enforcement ceases at eight o’clock in the evening.

I am convinced that if law enforcement is undertaken there, literally millions of rands can be made from the fines and I want to tell the hon Minister to use that money to train traffic officials properly. I think it is a disgrace when one reads in the newspaper of a traffic official who writes out a ticket to a person because their brake lights come on when they apply the brakes, or because the reverse lights are on when the vehicle is in reverse. I think it is a disgrace. We shall have to look at this.

A further aspect that I want to convey to the hon Minister is that there is a weigh-bridge along the N12 just outside Potchefstroom that is out of commission more than it is operational. It took almost two years from the time they had built and spent millions of rands on it, but it does not work and therefore I want to tell the hon Minister that if we start using it, we will be able to start enforcing better traffic rules on our roads. Thank you.]

Miss S RAJBALLY: Thank you, Chairperson. According to the Medical Research Council, there were 18 443 deaths in South Africa in the year 2000 as a result of road accidents. The MF is horrified by this and calls for an intensification of road safety nationally.

A total of 108 deaths have been estimated over the past month as a result of bus, minibus taxi and truck collisions. We are very concerned about these fatalities and even more concerned about the approaching festive season, when road accidents are usually at their peak.

The MF has great respect for and confidence in the Minister of Transport’s ability to address such issues and make our roads safer. However, a recent rise in road accidents involving public and heavy-duty transport has been noted. Just this past weekend 12 people were killed and two injured in a collision between a minibus and a truck on a road between Thabazimbi and Northam. Early the same day in Polokwane, a runaway truck smashed into a funeral procession, injuring 31 people, as a result of failed brakes. This is frightening and worrying. We need to step up our road safety with this sector of transport.

We have not forgotten the 13 people who died when their bus crashed on a slippery road and the 21 people who were killed as a result of a collision between a truck and a bus two weeks ago. These are but a few fatalities which occurred over the past month in South Africa. Our sympathies go to all the families who have lost their loved ones.

A weekend roadblock near Laingsburg in the Western Cape netted 17 unroadworthy vehicles, with traffic officers issuing 196 summonses. The MF is pleased that efforts are being made to step up road safety, but it is concerned and seeks a tighter grip on the situation, especially with regard to public and heavy-duty transport. We give our full support to the Minister of Transport in such endeavours. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.] Mnr C AUCAMP: Agb Voorsitter, die voorkoms van noodlottige ongelukke waarby openbare en swaarvoertuie betrokke is, het in die onlangse verlede epidemiese afmetings aangeneem en daarom verwelkom die NA hierdie debat vandag in die vertroue dat dit ‘n werklike verskil gaan maak, ook hier voor die vakansieseisoen.

Allereers is dit eers ‘n saak wat nie gepolitiseer moet word nie en daarom ons dank ook aan die inleier van hierdie debat wat hom nie verpolitiseer het nie, maar met positiewe voorstelle gekom het.

Ons moet kyk oor die lang termyn, die medium termyn en die kort termyn. Wat die lang termyn betref, daar is ‘n Afrikaanse liedjie wat sê: “Solank daar treine loop, is daar geen skeiding.” Ons moet weer die treine laat loop in Suid-Afrika - dit het die agb Herandien gesê. Paaie word oorlaai met swaarvoertuie waarvoor die paaie nie toegerus is nie en ‘n toenemende ekonomiese groei gaan hierdie lading eenvoudig laat toeneem. ‘n Neweproduk van as ons ons spoorweë weer aan die gang kry sal wees werkskepping, die herstel van uitgestorwe plattelandse gemeenskappe - ry maar deur Middelburg, De Aar en Noupoort en u sal besef die verdwyning van die spoorweë is ‘n groot oorsaak van ontvolking van die platteland. Ek versoek u, Minister, om ‘n deeglike uitvoerbaarheidstudie te laat doen oor die finansiële implikasies as ons werklik weer ons spoorweë laat herstel.

Oor die medium termyn moet korrupsie aangespreek word, wat betref padwaardigheidsertifikate van voertuie. Jy kan in Pretoria vir R395 ‘n padwaardigheidsertifikaat kry al het jou kar nie eers remme nie. Onlangs moes ek ‘n kar deur die toets sit; dis ‘n BMW - dis ‘n oue, ek is lankal ryk. Die persoon by die toetsentrum sê vir my verkope het toegeneem, maar wettige padwaardigheidstoetse by die toetsentrums het afgeneem. Duisende voertuie kry padwaardigheidsertifikate sonder ligte, remme, wat ook al. Ons steun die kwessie van mobiele weegbrûe. Swaarvoertuie gaan gewoon met ‘n ompad verby die statiese weegbrûe en hulle ry dan ander paaie klaar.

Oor die kort termyn: Beter wetstoepassing, zero toleransie teenoor oortreding, nie net mobiele toetssentrums nie maar ook mobiele verkeersbeamptes - hy moet opduik waar jy hom nie verwag nie. Ons vra ook begrip by ander padgebruikers vir die swaarvoertuie. [Tyd verstreke.] Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr C AUCAMP: Hon Chairperson, the incidence of fatal accidents involving public and heavy vehicles has recently reached epidemic proportions and therefore the NA welcomes this debate today in the hope that it will make a real difference, now just before the holiday season.

First of all it is not something that should be politicised and therefore we thank the opener of this debate who did not engage in politics but put forward positive proposals.

We must look at the long term, medium term and short term. Concerning the long term, there is an Afrikaans song that goes: “Solank daar treine loop, is daar geen skeiding.” [“As long as there are trains running there is no separation”] We must get the trains moving again in South Africa, as hon Herandien said. Roads are overburdened with heavy vehicles for which the roads are not equipped and increasing economic growth will simply increase this load. If we can get our railways on track again a by-product would be job creation, the restoration of deserted rural communities - just drive through Middelburg, De Aar and Noupoort and you will realise that the disappearance of the railways is a major cause of the depopulation of the countryside. I request you, Minister, to have a feasibility study carried out on the financial implications of having our railways repaired.

In the medium term corruption should be addressed, with regard to the roadworthy certificates of vehicles. In Pretoria one can obtain a roadworthy certificate for R395 even if your car doesn’t have brakes. Recently I had to put a car through the test, it is a BMW - it is an old one, I’ve been rich for a long time. The person at the testing centre told me that sales have increased, but legal roadworthy tests at testing centres have decreased. Thousands of vehicles without lights, brakes - whatever - obtain roadworthy certificates. We support the issue of mobile weigh- bridges. Heavy vehicles merely bypass the static weigh-bridges and thus damage other roads.

In the short term: better law enforcement, zero tolerance for offences, not only mobile testing centres but also mobile traffic officers - he should pop up where you don’t expect him. We also ask for understanding from other road users for heavy vehicles. [Time expired.] I thank you.]

Mr M F CASSIM: Hon Chairperson, I wish to focus on heavy-duty transport. Here is what I would dearly like to see implemented.

Firstly, weigh-bridges on the N1, N2 and other arterial routes, 24 hours a day, seven days a week, as the hon Farrow also asked for; secondly, taillights for heavy-duty trucks should be of a special type and length, allowing clear detection of such vehicles by those that are following behind. We could ask the CSIR to undertake the necessary research in this regard. Thirdly, I would like to see the provision of affordable overnight facilities for heavy-duty trucks at regular intervals. In this regard I fully support the hon Cronin in what he said about driver fatigue.

Fourthly, we need to ameliorate the boredom factor, particularly on the N1, where there are long straight stretches of monotonous road. Water fountains, for example, where the Orange River crosses the N1 could have a great reviving effect on drivers. Other such devices could be used and maybe the Department of Arts and Culture could assist in this matter.

Fifthly, I would like to see the use of digital signs permitting a reduction of speed limits when road and weather conditions are poor. These are used in Australia. Sixthly, suggestion boxes could be placed at identified filling stations; seventhly, phone numbers should be provided where motorists on a particular road can provide information or lodge complaints to a co-ordinating office, and, lastly, roadside courts should be made permanent, and we should appoint roadside researchers where accidents are frequent. Let such researchers camp on the spot for, maybe, three to six months so that they could actually tell us what is going on and help us find solutions. Thank you.

Man T L P NWAMITWA-SHILUBANA: Nkulukumba Mutshami wa Xitulu, Mfumo kun’we na ntirho wa bindzu wa swofamba hi swona emagondzweni va kombisile ku khumbeka ka vona mayelana na makhombo lamo chavisa lama vangaka hi swifambo leswi rhwalaka vanhu na tilori letikulu.

Makhombo lama nakambe ya kombisile leswaku ku khumbeka eka mhaka ya vuhlayiseki ku kona emapatwini ya Afrika Dzonga. Siku na siku ku lava ku ringana 31 wa vanhu va fa emapatwini ya Afrika Dzonga. Leswi swi ringana kwalomu ka 11 315 wa vanhu lava faka eka lembe rin’wana na rin’wana. Mi twanana na mina leswaku nhlayo leyi yi le henhla ngopfu.

Eka lembe leri ntsena ku ringana 7 499 wa vanhu va file eka mapatu ya ka hina exikarhi ka Sunguti na Nhlangula. Eka nhweti ya Nhlangula 2003 ku vile na makhombo lamakulu yo chavisa yo ringana mune lama khumbaka mathekisi na tilori letikulu lama nga dlaya ku lava ku ringana 60 wa vanhu no vavisa vanhu vo tlula 40.

Tinhlayo ta makhombo ta karhi nkarhi wa Nhlangulo ku fika 11 Hukuri ti komba leswaku tilori, mabazi na tikhumbi ta mathekisi ti nyanyisile eku vanga makhombo lamakulu yo chavisa. Eka makhombo lama, 87 a ya ri eGauteng, ku landzela KZN ya ri 81, 79 eKapa Vupeladyambu, 65 eKapa Vuxa, 59 eMpumalanga, 46 eN’walungu Vupeladyambu, 45 eFree State, 33 eLimpopo na 12 eKapa N’walungu. Ehenhla ka vanhu lava nga dlayiwa, 211 a va ri vakhandziyi va swofamba hi swona, 170 a va ri va n’wamilenge kasi 125 i vachayeri va mimovha.

Hi tshemba leswaku xivangelo lexikulu, tani hileswi vanhu va nga hlamusela, xa makhombo lama i ku chayela swifambo hi vusopfa, machayelo lama nga riki kahle na matikhomele yo biha ya vachayeri kumbe na swifambo leswi nga hlayisiwiki kahle.

Vulavisisi lebyi nga endliwa byi komba leswaku eka timhangu leto tala ku ringana 57,1% wa makhombo lama humelelaka mabazi ma vangiwa hi vachayeri na swihoxo leswi endliwaka hi vanhu, xik. ku chayela hi vusopfa tani hi ku hundza movha wun’wana hi le thlelo ku ri karhi ku ta movha hi le mahlweni. Kasi 28,6% swi vangiwa hi ku va movha wu nga lunghisiwi kahle naswona ku ringana 14,3% swi vanga hi xiyimo xa patu na tshamelo maxelo tani hiloko ku ri na nkunghwa kumbe mpfula.

Nhlangano wa ntleketlo wa swa le magondzweni wu tshemba ni leswaku ku va movha wu nga hlayisiwi kahle no lunghisiwa kahle na vachayeri va nga leteriwangi kahle hi mhaka yo layicha ku tlula mpimo hi swona swivangelo leswi swa makhombo eka ntleketlo. Lexi i xiphiqo mayelana na vini va tilori leti nga riki kahle lava tirhisaka swifambo leswi nga hlayisekangiki no layicha ku tlula mpimo na vachayeri lava nga leteriwangiki kahle. (Translation of Tsonga paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs T L P NWAMITWA-SHILUBANA: Chairperson, both Government and the road transport industry have expressed their concern over the recent spate of accidents involving public and heavy-duty vehicles. These accidents have again highlighted concerns over road safety on South African roads.

About 31 people die on South African roads every day, which amounts to about 11 315 people every year. You will agree with me that this figure is too high. This year alone, a total of 7 499 people have already died on our roads between January and October. During October four fatal accidents involving taxis and trucks killed nearly 60 people and injured more than 40 others.

Accident statistics for the period 1 October to 11 November 2003 indicate that trucks, buses and minibus taxis have contributed heavily to fatalities. Of these accidents, 87 were in Gauteng, followed by 81 in KZN, 79 in the Western Cape, 65 in the Eastern Cape, 59 in Mpumalanga, 46 in the North West, 44 in the Free State, 33 in Limpopo and 12 in the Northern Cape. Of the people killed, 211 were passengers, 170 pedestrians and 125 drivers.

As already stated, we believe that the main causes of these accidents are general recklessness, negligence, inconsiderate driver behaviour and poorly maintained vehicles. Research conducted indicated that in the majority of cases, 57,1% of bus accidents had been caused by driver and human error, for example reckless driving such as overtaking in the face of oncoming traffic. Twenty-eight comma six percent had been caused by poor maintenance, and only 14,3% had been caused by road conditions and environmental factors such as mist and rain.

The Road Freight Association also believes that poor vehicle maintenance, poorly trained drivers and overloading are major causes of freight accidents. This is especially a problem with regard to unscrupulous truck owners who use unsafe and overloaded vehicles with untrained drivers.]

The Road Freight Association has, as a result, emphasised the importance of law enforcement to address the problem. It has also suggested that the use of two drivers on long-distance trips should become a legal requirement, which we fully support. A lack of stop-over facilities for truck drivers on certain routes should be addressed.

The national road traffic regulations were amended on 25 September 2003. Various important amendments have been promulgated which affect various areas in the transport industry. To mention but a few: That different grades of driving licence examiners are introduced; training requirements for drivers of trucks with dangerous goods have also been amended; extensive amendments to the traffic signal legislation have been published and, as already mentioned, the use of cellphones without a hands-free kit or a walk-and-talk device should be abolished.

Lexi nga sala eka vatirhisi hinkwavo va mapatu i ku xiyaxiya milawu leyi hinkwayo ya le mapatwini leyi nga vekiwa hi hulumende, hulumende leyi navelaka leswaku vanhu va hlayiseka.

Ndzawulo ya Ntleketlo ya Rixaka yi simekile “Operation Juggernaut” leyi kongomisaka eka ku sivela makhombo eka nkarhi wa khisimusi. “Operation Jaggernaut” yi ta pfunana na “FIKA U HANYILE”/ARRIVE ALIVE, laha yi nga ta kongomisa eka ku tirhisiwa ka nawu eka nkarhi wa khisimusi ngopfu-ngopfu eka ku layicha ku tlula mpimo na mathekisi lama nga hava mpfumelelo wo famba emapatwini, tilori na mabazi.

Ku ta kongomisiwa na le ka mhaka ya rivilo ro tlula mpimo, matirhiselo ya xihoko na vuhlayiseki bya van’wamilenge. Tani hi xiphemu xa “Operation Juggernaut”, ndzawulo yi averiwile R12 000 000 eka marhavi lama tirhisaka nawu eka swiyimo hinkwaswo swa swifundzankulu na vulawuri bya swa le magondzweni bya mfumo-rixaka.

Eku heteleleni, ndzi lava ku kombisa leswaku xiyimo xa le henhla makhombo ya le mapatwini na mhaka ya ikhonomi na swa rixaka etikweni ra ka hina swa khumbeka. Le Limpopo mavhiki mambirhi lama nga hundza a va endla patu, se va vekele mfungho lowu loko wu ri rihlaza a wu pfumelela mimovha ku famba kasi loko wu komba ku tshwuka movha a wu yima. (Translation of Tsonga paragraphs follows.) [All that is left is for all road users to observe all road regulations which the Government has laid down, the Government that is concerned about the safety of its people.

The National Department of Transport has launched its ``Operation Juggernaut’’ that aims to curb road accidents during the festive season. Operation Jaggernaut will complement the Arrive Alive campaign and will focus on road law enforcement during the festive season, with strong emphasis on overloaded and unroadworthy taxis, trucks and buses.

Other areas of focus will be speeding, the use of alcohol and pedestrian safety. As part of the implementation of Operation Juggernaut the department has allocated R12 million for distribution to the law enforcement agencies at both provincial and local traffic authority levels.

In conclusion I want to point out that as a result of the high rate of road accidents, the economic and social aspects of our country are affected. Two weeks ago in Limpopo they were constructing a road and they also put up a sign which, when green, allowed vehicles to proceed, and when it was red they were to stop.]

The lorry that came had a brake failure and it crashed into the back of a taxi, and eventually six cars were involved and 11 people died.

Hikwalaho hi nge mali leyi tirhisiwaka hi timhaka ta makhombo a yi fanele yi tirhisiwa eka timhaka ta RDP na miningonoko yin’wana na yin’wana leyi pfunaka leswaku tiko ra hina ri hluvuka.

Ku sukela eka mune wa malembe lama nga hundza ku hakeriwile mali yo tala ehenhla ka makhombo lama a ya ri kona emapatwini. Hi lembe ra 2000, ku lava ku ringana R13,4 wa tibiliyoni yi tirhisiwile. Hi 2001 ku tirhisiwile ku ringana R61,1 wa tibiliyoni, hi 2002 ku lava ku lava ku ringana R18,7 wa tibiliyoni yi tirhisiwile. (Translation of Tsonga paragraphs follows.)

[That is why we say that money that was supposed to be used for the RDP and other programmes is being spent in relation to these accidents and fatalities.

In the past four years a lot of money has been spent as a result of these accidents. For example, in 2000 about R13,4 billion was used, in 2001 about R61,1 billion and in 2002 about R18,7 billion. These figures have to come down.]

You can see that the figure is rising.

Tinhlayo leti ti fanele ku chika, hikwalaho hi vulaka leswaku hi mi navelela Khisimusi lerinene. Inkomu. [Swandla.] [We wish you a merry Christmas. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Mr R JANKIELSOHN: Thank you, Chairperson. I’m on the podium today for the first time since a motor vehicle accident that left me with a number of broken bones and other injuries. It is therefore with this personal insight into the pain and trauma of road accidents that I stand before you here today. I’m fortunate to have survived since many victims of accidents do not even make it into the trauma unit.

My hometown of Kestell has lost many of its sons and daughters in the past few years, four of whom were children who were killed in an accident last year owing to a reckless truck driver. And who can forget the Saulspoort Dam bus disaster that took place at Bethlehem this year, and left 55 people dead and many families traumatised? According to the SA Medical Research Council’s report on unnatural road deaths in South Africa in 2001, 28% were as a result of road accidents.

Before we can decide what can be done to reduce the incidence of road accidents, we must determine what the causes of accidents are. In my view, the major causes of accidents may be placed into four categories: Firstly, there are natural elements, over which we have little control, such as rain, mist and darkness; secondly, there are infrastructural defects, such as potholes and other road defects, road construction and bad signage; thirdly, we have human error, which includes aspects relating to fatigue, bad judgment and slow reactions; and fourthly, there is criminal behaviour, such as reckless driving, driving without driver’s licences, driving under the influence of alcohol and drugs, and deliberately driving in unroadworthy and defective vehicles.

In many instances, accidents may occur as a result of a combination of these factors and may have been avoided if one of them was not applicable. There are two instances, however, that are inexcusable. These are where criminal behaviour has taken place or where road signs are defective or nonexistent, especially during bad weather.

I have driven in Bloemfontein during rain when the white lines fade away completely, and drivers have to try and judge where the traffic lanes are. A friend of mine, on hearing that I was giving this speech today informed me that a taxi passed both him and a traffic officer in Cape Town on a yellow line with total disregard for the law or the fact that a traffic officer was present. In fact, the traffic officer ignored this transgression completely. This type of behaviour from the driver and the lack of action from the traffic officer are unacceptable.

There are some things that could be done to improve the situation. These include, among others, the following: firstly, a campaign to repair roads and ensure adequate road signs across the country. As an example, I would like to refer to the Senekal-Paul Roux road in the Free State that has become dangerous to drive on and has to carry the heavy traffic between Cape Town and Durban. Secondly, we need zero tolerance law enforcement campaigns to clamp down on and remove unroadworthy vehicles, reckless drivers and people without driver’s licences from our roads. Very often, we see such vehicles and drivers receive a fine and thereafter they are allowed back on our roads. Dangerous vehicles should be removed from our roads and impounded. Thirdly, improve the railroad infrastructure to supply an alternative cheap transportation system to get trucks off our roads. It is virtually impossible to pass trucks in the rain or at night on some roads, which forces road users to take unfortunate risks. Fourthly, public transportation must be drastically improved. Such systems must be user- friendly and safe, if they are going to become an alternative to personal vehicles and taxis.

There are good drivers on our roads. It is, however, the unroadworthy vehicles and illegal and irresponsible drivers who continue to place the lives of other road users at risk. With a concerted effort by law enforcement officials and co-operation between various levels of government regarding an improvement in the quality of roads, accidents may be reduced.

In the interim, my advice to South Africans this coming festive season is simple: Stay at home! And if you have to leave home, you can always go to KwaZulu-Natal and play golf. I’m sure the hon Cronin will be there playing golf, probably without his Cosatu tie. [Laughter.]

In closing, I would like to use this opportunity to thank all the emergency personnel as well as the doctors, sisters and nurses who have to deal with the most horrific scenes of pain, suffering and death on a daily basis. They are the real heroes and heroines who continue to fight to save lives of victims of this carnage. I thank you. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Thank you, Chair. Hon members, I would like to thank all members who have participated in this debate.

It is clear from what everyone has said that there are no quick-fix solutions; that there are long-term, short-term and medium-term strategies which we should follow. Many members have expressed outrage at some of the things that have happened on the road, and I think that that is quite correct. We all feel a sense of outrage. I want to join those who have expressed condolences to the families of those who have lost loved ones and to wish those who have been injured a speedy recovery.

If I say that there are no quick-fix solutions, it does not mean that there are not things that we could do immediately, and the programme that we are following over the current period represents some of the short-term initiatives that need to be taken in an attempt to stem the tide and to ensure that we reduce the number of collisions to a minimum, and that we get road users to observe the rules of the road.

I have looked at all the major accidents that have taken place over the past two months. I’ve got a list of them here, but I’m not going to mention them. I just want to indicate to you that there is not a single case in which it was the road or road condition which was responsible for the collision. Not a single case. In all these cases, the collisions have taken place on good roads, not on bad roads. I know that we do have bad roads and part of the responsibility of different levels of government is to address that infrastructure problem. There are programmes in place and, hopefully, over the next few years, we will see a much more systematic and concerted approach to ensure that all our roads are good roads.

I also do fear that if all our roads are good roads, what is going to happen to behaviour on our roads? It has to be accompanied by a change of attitude. If I say that there is not a single case in which the road was responsible for the accident, that does not mean that we must not look at our roads. We must look at our roads on a continuous basis. We must make sure that our road signs are adequate and we must make sure that our road markings are of assistance to road users. These are matters which we have discussed.

The SA National Roads Agency, which is responsible for national roads, has embarked upon a programme to look at all of these. Also, our provincial counterparts are doing exactly the same. So in terms of our road conditions, a great deal of work is going on.

I also believe that consultation is very important. This was raised during the course of this debate. I do consult very widely. We have meetings with the SA National Taxi Council, with the road freight association and with the bus industry. We have consultations with other stakeholders.

We are spending quite a bit of money to organise small bus operators in our country, because there are many of them in every province and they form themselves into provincial organisations with great difficulty. They are not often able to meet, but that is the area in which some of our biggest problems occur. We have also met with them, called them together, assisted them to get together, and we have met with other stakeholders in that industry. Saboa, the Southern African Bus Operators Association, is important, but very few small operators belong to Saboa.

So we interact with the small operators in all the provinces through myself directly, through the department, through the provinces and even through the local government level, with two objectives in mind: one, to promote black economic empowerment and to ensure that the contracts which are available to the bus industry are spread and broken up into smaller chunks and can be accessed by small bus operators, and secondly, to ensure that we do those things which help to promote road safety - vehicle fitness, the training of drivers and a host of other related things.

I must say that from the organised industries we have received good co- operation. Santaco and Saboa, for example, are implementing programmes of their own, though we are not leaving it to them.

In so far as training is concerned - which was stressed by a number of people - we have invoked the assistance of Teta, the Transport Education and Training Authority. There are a number of transport chambers. Teta is the one Seta that is working very successfully. I cannot comment on the others, but Teta works very successfully. It consults regularly as to the kind of training programmes we want. It is training drivers of buses and drivers of trucks and minibus taxis in a host of matters, including driving; raising standards and creating recognised qualifications in the process, so as to give drivers an incentive. It also provides training in business management for taxi operators and small bus operators, and there are other levels of training in which Teta is also engaged.

At the level of the industry itself, we meet with the organisations and try to influence the kind of programmes they have in respect of training. So training is very, very important, and consultation is important. I want to say that, for example, at the Road Traffic Safety Board meeting which we had on Monday, the trade union SA Transport and Allied Workers Union, was represented.

In fact, Satawu participated in the meeting, because the issue of driver fatigue cannot just be addressed in a high-handed manner. We’ve got to address it by taking into account the kinds of problems which exist, with drivers under heavy pressure - both in the taxi industry, the trucking industry and the bus industry, and with some of the big coaches moving from one part of our country to the other - to reach their destinations by a particular hour. Even though there is a requirement that two drivers must be used on long distances, that in itself does not solve the problem. It mitigates the problem, but for so long as there are those pressures on drivers, this kind of problem will continue. So, we are working with the Labour department, as the hon Jeremy Cronin indicated; we are looking at the Labour department and we have met with the Labour department. There is a special task team to look at hours of work for drivers and others, conditions of service, pensions, health benefits and a host of other things. We are encouraging the industry and the trade unions to meet, because they need to come to an agreement. Some of these matters can be resolved through collective bargaining.

I’m also happy to say that the trade unions, the taxi industry and the others that I have mentioned participate in Teta, so they can have a say in the kinds of programmes which are being developed.

I’m not going to comment on taxi recapitalisation today, except to indicate that the programme is on course. There are difficulties. A number of legitimate concerns were raised during meetings of the portfolio committee, one of which was the question of affordability. I can report to this House that the Department of Trade and Industry is currently engaged in the best- and-final-offer process to determine the best price that we can obtain from the manufacturers. I believe that that process should be completed before the end of this year. Then we will be able to meet with the industry to discuss what the possibilities are and the levels of assistance that Government can give.

However, irrespective of what happens to the recapitalisation programme, the National Land Transport Transition Act provides that by a date to be fixed by the Minister, no public passenger transport vehicle will be licensed unless such a vehicle complies with the basic minimum specifications, such as roll-over bars, chassis, speed limiters and so on. By another date to be fixed by the Minister, no vehicle will be allowed on the road unless it complies with those specifications.

So you must look at the recapitalisation programme in context, because it is part of a larger programme, many of the elements of which have been implemented quite successfully. There is the big issue of infrastructure for the new taxis, but that is an issue which we have discussed with Salga, because it is very much a local government issue.

This brings me to the issue of different levels of responsibility. There has been a reference, for example, to Langa and other areas, and it is true that the Department of Transport and the national Minister must assist where they can. However, many of these issues are local government functions. Many of them are provincial government functions. Now, we must not make scapegoats of one or other level of government. What I’m saying is that we all have some responsibility, even our NGOs. All of us have a responsibility. The various stakeholders have a responsibility.

The challenge facing us is to co-ordinate our activities in such a way that we are able to meet our responsibilities at the different levels, and that is what we are working on at the moment. I agree with the view that we mustn’t have traffic police hiding behind bushes. What we want is visible policing. If a traffic policeman’s presence can compel a driver to reduce speed, it is much better than trapping the person driving at high speed. I agree with the view which has been expressed that we need to address this problem.

With regard to Tugela Ferry, I just wanted to mention that the much- maligned Road Accident Fund played a very, very important role in assisting families. In all the accidents to which I have referred - there is almost a dozen of them that I have here - one of the first to come forward was the Road Accident Fund. In every single case, it has provided families, immediately, with an amount of R10 000, in respect of each person who has been killed, to assist families with regard to funerals, etc. This has got nothing to do with other claims that families may have. I am just saying that that kind of initiative by the Road Accident Fund has been much appreciated by everyone.

There is the question of sentences. There, too, we need a bid of co- ordination. We have discussed this matter in Cabinet. I just want to quickly give you one example of the type of problem we experience.

A few days ago, in Limpopo province, a loaded truck came out of a minor road and crossed a main road. There is a stop sign along the minor road requiring this vehicle to stop. In addition, there was a person with a red flag trying to flag down vehicles, warning them and asking them to stop. This truck driver did not stop. He ignored this warning, crossed the main road, went smack-bang into a minibus taxi and killed 12 people. He was taken to the police station and he was released on warning.

We also have examples of fines which are imposed by traffic police being drastically reduced by prosecutors in some of the areas. We have good co- operation at some levels, but at some levels there are also problems in that regard. We’ve raised and discussed this matter in Cabinet and, hopefully, we can get better co-operation at that level. Chairperson, I’ve decided not to bore you with all the programmes we are engaged in over the holiday period. If our portfolio committee has time, we can get our team to make another presentation, especially with regard to the coming holiday period.

I brought this toy along. It is a credit card verification device. We have managed to acquire 100 of them, and they are now being used very, very effectively. It reduces the amount of time that a traffic officer has to spend by at least 50%, and it doubles and trebles the amount of input.

There are a number of things that this machine does. It gives direct access to the National Traffic Information System, Natis. It allows traffic officers, from wherever they stop a vehicle, to check with Natis whether the driver’s licence is valid or not. It can also check the details of the vehicle, whether the registration is a genuine registration or whether it is fraudulent, whether the vehicle has been licensed again or not licensed. It also checks whether the professional driver’s permit is a valid one, and a number of other things of a similar kind. It performs 10 functions.

There are 100 of them out at the moment and we are hoping to spread them out throughout the country because it is very clear to us that the use of technology plays a very, very important role in making law enforcement more effective.

In conclusion, I agree with the view that we have a challenge to change attitudes and change behaviour, but I also agree with the view that we need tough law enforcement, because without tough law enforcement, law compliance will be eroded. That is the reason we are concentrating a great deal, through Operation Juggernaut, on the question of law enforcement, tough law enforcement and, already, that programme is showing some signs of success.

May I once again thank hon members for their very positive support for the programmes, and I, too, wish you all a very merry Christmas and a happy New Year. Thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 19:14. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                     WEDNESDAY, 19 NOVEMBER 2003

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Assembly:

1. The Speaker:

Ms  E  Thabethe  has  been  elected  co-chairperson  of  the  Mediation
 Committee with effect from 19 November 2003.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Public Enterprises:

 Report and Financial Statements of Alexkor Limited  for  the  financial
 year ended June 2003, including the Report of the Independent  Auditors
 on the Financial Statements for the year ended June 2003.

National Assembly:

Papers:

1. The Speaker:

 Tenth Report of the Working Group on the African Union:


 Following on its Ninth Report, adopted by the  House  on  25  September
 2003, the Working Group would like to report as follows:


 (1)    Ratification of the Pan African Parliament (PAP) Protocol


    The PAP Protocol requires ratification  by  a  simple  majority  of
     Member States that are party  to  the  original  AEC  Treaty  which
     provided for the Pan African Parliament. There are 47  states  that
     are signatories to that Treaty and therefore  24  instruments  were
     required. In terms of Article 22, the Protocol  enters  into  force
     30 days after the deposit of the instruments of ratification  by  a
     simple majority of the Member States.


    On 14 November 2003, HE Prof Alpha Oumar Konare, Chairperson of the
     AU Commission, announced that the Protocol  on  the  Pan    African
     Parliament has received sufficient ratifications  to    enter  into
     force after 30 days from that day (14 November 2003).


 (2)    Beginning of first term of office of the Pan African Parliament


    It is the intention of the  Commission  to  convene  the  Inaugural
     Session towards the end of January 2004, probably in the 3rd  week.
     Thus, the Pan African Parliament will  be  established  within  the
     timeframes set by the 2nd Summit of the AU  held  in  Maputo  which
     had resolved that the Pan African Parliament should meet before  31
     January 2004. The  Chairperson  of  the  Commission  is  consulting
     President Chissano, Chairperson of  the  African  Union,  regarding
     the dates for the Inaugural Session and confirmation of the  venue.
     The Resolution of the Summit relating to the PAP had also  stressed
     the importance of setting up this  organ  "which  will  ensure  the
     effective and full participation of  the  African  Peoples  in  the
     Development and Integration of the Continent".


 (3)    Election of delegation to the Pan African Parliament


    The Working Group would like to draw to the attention of the  House
     the following provisions of the Protocol:


     -  Each Member State  shall  be  represented  in  the  Pan  African
          Parliament by 5 Parliamentarians, at least one of  whom  shall
          be a woman (Article 4.1);


     -   The  representation  of  each  Parliament  shall  reflect   the
          diversity of political opinions in each national Parliament or
          other deliberative organ (Article 4.2);


     -  The Pan African Parliamentarians shall be elected or  designated
          by  the   respective   National   Parliaments   and/or   other
          deliberative Organs of the  Member  States  from  among  their
          members (Article 5.1);


     -  The Pan African Parliamentarians shall vote  in  their  personal
          and independent capacity (Article 6);


     -  Membership of the Pan African Parliament shall  be  incompatible
          with the exercise of executive  or  judicial  functions  in  a
          Member State (Article 7);


     -  The Pan African Parliament shall elect,  at  its  first  sitting
          following its election,  by  secret  ballot,  from  among  its
          members and in  accordance  with  its  Rules  of  Procedure  a
          President and four Vice Presidents representing the Regions of
          Africa as determined by the OAU (now AU). The election  shall,
          in each case, be by simple majority of the members present and
          voting (Article 12.2).


     The Working Group recommends:


     (a)     That the Houses elect the 5 members who  are  to  serve  on
          the Pan African Parliament,  in  terms  of  the  Protocol.  It
          should be noted that the delegation will comprise members from
          both Houses.


     (b)     That parties need to discuss and agree on  the  composition
          of the delegation and the election process.


     The Working Group in its Eighth Report gave  the  following  option
     regarding representation:  If  the  largest  party  is  to  have  a
     majority - 3 members from the largest  party  and  2  members  from
     among other parties.


     In the same report, the Working Group recommended that at  least  3
     of the members should be women. This  report  was  adopted  by  the
     Assembly on 25 September 2003.


     Once these members have  been  elected,  Parliament  will  need  to
     inform the AU Commission by 30 November 2003, indicating the  names
     of the members, the process of their election and their  curriculum
     vitaes so that representivity can be considered.


     The Commission has indicated that a Credentials Committee  will  be
     set up  before  the  Inaugural  Session.  The  Committee  will  not
     accredit  any  representatives  who  do  not   conform   with   the
     stipulated requirements of gender and political diversity.


     The  Commission  has  also   distributed   for   consideration   by
     Parliaments the "Draft Oaths of Office" for Members  and  Presiding
     Officers. Parliament also needs to  make  recommendations  on  what
     committees should be set up at the Inaugural  Session  as  well  as
     the nature of the debate to be held at that  Session.  The  Working
     Group is currently considering these matters with a view to  making
     recommendations.


 (4)    Reporting Mechanisms


    Parliament should also consider how the five  members  of  the  PAP
     will report. The  Working  Group  has  previously  recommended  the
     establishment of a Committee, before the Inaugural Session  of  the
     PAP, to process and deal with issues  emanating  from  the  African
     Union and the Southern African Development Community  Parliamentary
     Forum (SADC-PF). The Committee  would  also  discuss  mandates  and
     receive reports from the members of the PAP with a view to  tabling
     them.


 The Working Group recommends:


 (a)    That  a  Committee  on  the  African  Union  be  established  as
     previously proposed and agreed to by the House when it adopted  the
     Eighth Report.


 (b)    That the terms of reference of the Committee as suggested in the
     Eighth  Report  be  amended  to  exclude  the  SADC-PF   and   SADC
     Parliament, pending developments in that regard.


 Report to be considered.

COMMITTEE REPORTS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

1. Report of the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women, dated 26 September 2003:

   The Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women, having considered the Report of the Independent Experts’ Assessment on Women, War and Peace (UNIFEM), reports that it endorses the recommendations contained in that Report, in particular the following:

   1. The Secretary General of the UN to give priority to achieving gender parity in his appointments of Special Representatives and Envoys beginning with the minimum of 30% in the next three years with a view to gender parity by 2015.

   2. Gender equality to be recognized in all peace processes, agreements and transitional governance structures with a minimum of 30% representation of women in all negotiations.

   3. Establishment of a United Nations Trust Fund for Women’s Peace- Building. The fund must be used to leverage political, financial and technical support needed for women’s civil society organisations and women leaders to have an impact on peace efforts. The Fund should be managed by UNIFEM in consultation with other UN agencies.

   4. UNIFEM and the Department of Political Affairs (DPA) to ensure that gender issues and women’s full participation are incorporated in peace-building and post-conflict reconstruction. UNIFEM and UN Population Fund (UNFPA) to be represented in all relevant inter-agency bodies.

   5. Peace Negotiations and agreements to have a gender perspective through the full integration of women’s concerns and participation in peace processes.

   6. UN and donors to invest in women’s organisations as a strategy for conflict prevention, resolution and peace-building. They should exercise flexibility in responding to urgent needs, time-sensitive opportunities, and foster partnerships and networks between international, regional and local peace initiatives.

   7. National electoral laws and international electoral assistance to establish quotas to achieve gender parity, ensure voter registration, education and increase in the ratio of women in electoral commissions and observer missions and to provide training for women candidates.

   8. A lead organisation to be designated within the United Nations for women’s education and training in conflict and post- conflict situations. This lead organisation, together with UNESCO, UNHCR and UNICEF, should ensure that all education programmes for displaced persons provide for women as well as girls.

   9. The International Labour Organisation (ILO) to expand vocational and skills training for women in post-conflict situations including in non-traditional, public and private sectors, in a manner that is sustainable and responsive to the local and national economy.

   Additional recommendations by Committee:

   1. That a regional TRC structure on violence against women in armed conflict for women in Africa be established within the African Union and that it be linked to the International Truth and Reconciliation Commission on violence against women in armed conflict under the United Nations as proposed in the UNIFEM report as a step towards ending impunity. The continental structure should, however, model a joint government and civil society initiative.

   2. Further decreasing domestic violence should be a criterion against which countries will be reviewed in the African Peer Review Mechanism process.

   3. That a Council for African women mediators be established, comprising women who are not in active formal politics and who will be available and who may be utilised as special envoys and who as a council will have a special status with the Peace and Security Council.

   4. That training workshops be facilitated for empowering African women with conflict analysis, negotiation, mediation and leadership skills.

   5. That relations with the DRC, Rwanda and Burundi be strengthened.

   6. That a delegation of women leaders be sent to Burundi and the DRC to work towards facilitating lasting peace.

   7. That a mission of three women leaders from each of the Great Lakes countries and South Africa be constituted to support international efforts for establishing peace in the Great Lakes Region.

   8. That the Peace and Security Council of the African Union be engendered with immediate effect.

 Report to be considered.

National Assembly:

1. Report of the Joint Committee on Ethics and Members’ Interests on the Alleged Receipt of Benefits by the Deputy President Mr J G Zuma, MP, dated 19 November 2003:

CREDA INSERT REPORT

1. Report of the Joint Committee on Ethics and Members’ Interests on the Alleged Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr D A A Olifant, MP, dated 18 November 2003:

CREDA INSERT REPORT

1. Report of the Joint Committee on Ethics and Members’ Interests on the Alleged Breach of the Code of Conduct by Mr M A Maziya, MP, dated 19 November 2003:

CREDA INSERT REPORT

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on the Southern African Customs Union Agreement between the Governments of the Republic of Botswana, the Kingdom of Lesotho, the Republic of Namibia, the Republic of South Africa and the Kingdom of Swaziland, dated 19 November 2003: The Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Southern African Customs Union Agreement between the Governments of the Republic of Botswana, the Kingdom of Lesotho, the Republic of Namibia, the Republic of South Africa and the Kingdom of Swaziland, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

 Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of Rwanda for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of taxes on income, dated 19 November 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of Rwanda for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of taxes on income, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

 Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of Botswana for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of taxes on income, dated 19 November 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of Botswana for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of taxes on income, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

 Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Sultanate of Oman for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of taxes on income, dated 19 November 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Sultanate of Oman for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of taxes on income, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

 Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of Belarus for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of taxes on income and on capital (property), dated 19 November 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Republic of Belarus for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of taxes on income and on capital (property), referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

 Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Accession to the Protocol of Amendment to the International Convention on the Simplification and Harmonization of Customs Procedures, dated 19 November 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Accession to the Protocol of Amendment to the International Convention on the Simplification and Harmonization of Customs Procedures, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Accession.

 Request to be considered. 10.   Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Accession  to  the
 Convention  on  Temporary  Admission:  Istanbul  Convention,  dated  19
 November 2003:


     The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered  the  request
     for approval by Parliament of the Accession to  the  Convention  on
     Temporary  Admission:  Istanbul   Convention,   referred   to   it,
     recommends that the House,  in  terms  of  section  231(2)  of  the
     Constitution, approve the said Accession together  with  Annexes  A
     and B1.


 Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Convention between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Federative Republic of Brazil for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of Taxes on Income, dated 19 November 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Convention between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the Federative Republic of Brazil for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion in respect of Taxes on Income, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Convention.

 Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs on the Restitution of Land Rights Amendment Bill [B 42B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 19 November 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Agriculture and Land Affairs, having considered the Restitution of Land Rights Amendment Bill [B 42B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75) and proposed amendments of the National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, 8 October 2003, p 1277), referred to the Committee, reports the Bill with amendments [B 42C - 2003].

 Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy on the Petroleum Products Amendment Bill [B 25B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 19 November 2003:

   The Portfolio Committee on Minerals and Energy, having considered the Petroleum Products Amendment Bill [B 25B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75) and proposed amendments of the National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, 9 October 2003, p 1283), referred to the Committee, reports the Bill with amendments [B 25C - 2003].

Report to be considered.