National Council of Provinces - 25 February 2003
TUESDAY, 25 FEBRUARY 2003 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:00.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, I give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:
That the Council -
(1) notes -
(a) that the civil war in the Sudan, which started in 1955,
continues and that some two million Sudanese have been butchered
by the Northern Sudanese forces over this period;
(b) the hope held out by the Machakos Protocol of July 2002, entered
into between the government of the Sudan and the Sudan Peoples'
Liberation Movement/Sudan People's Liberation Army;
(c) that after a halting start and many violations, the process is
still on track; and
(d) that the churches and their international partners are holding
the annual Assembly of the Sudan Ecumenical Forum in South
Africa from 23 to 27 February, they are sitting now, shortly
before the Sudan peace negotiations begin again in Nairobi. They
will discuss, inter alia, breaches of the cease-fire by the
government of the Sudan that have come to light; and
(2) calls upon the Government of South Africa to encourage the parties concerned to stay within the agreement and the spirit of the Machakos Protocol, and to steadfastly endeavour to bring peace, order and a newly agreed upon constitutional order to the Sudan, which responds to their needs, including those of the majority of the people in the South of Sudan to the right of self-determination, tested by referendum in future.
Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van die Huis sal voorstel:
Dat die Raad -
(1) daarvan kennis neem dat die Noord-Kaapse Wetgewer hierdie week open, en dat die nuwe Wetgewergeboue van die Noord-Kaap in Kimberley in gebruik geneem gaan word;
(2) kennis neem dat, hoewel die Nuwe NP van mening is dat die kapitaal vir die gebou sinvol vir armoedeverligting en werkskepping aangewend kon word, dié party nogtans die vertroue uitspreek dat -
(a) die fasiliteite wat geskep is, sal bydra tot beter dienslewering
aan al die mense van daardie provinsie;
(b) die tolk- en vertaaldienste daar die taalregte van die Afrikaans-
Xhosa- en Tswana-gemeenskappe van die provinsie sal respekteer;
(c) die provinsie spoedig 'n eie talewet sal aanvaar; en
(d) die Premier van die Noord-Kaap met die opening van die gebou en
die Wetgewer, anders as in die verlede, in sy openingsrede aan
al die tale en kulture van die provinsie erkenning sal gee; en
(3) voorts daarvan kennis neem dat die Noord-Kapenaars trots is op hulle herkoms, en dit nie wil vertrap hê deur eentaligheid nie. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the House -
(1) notes that the Northern Cape Legislature is opening this week and that the new Northern Cape Legislature buildings in Kimberley will be taken into use;
(2) notes that, although the New NP is of the opinion that the capital for the building could have been meaningfully utilised for poverty alleviation and job creation, this party nonetheless expresses the confidence that -
(a) the facilities that have been created will contribute to
improved service delivery to all the people of the province;
(b) the interpreting and translation services will respect the
language rights of the Afrikaans, Xhosa and Tswana communities
of the province;
(c) the province will soon adopt its own languages Act; and
(d) with the opening of the building and the Legislature, the
Premier of the Northern Cape will, unlike in the past, recognise
all the languages and cultures of the province in his opening
address; and
(3) further notes that the people of the Northern Cape are proud of their heritage and do not want it trampled on by monolingualism.]
ICC CRICKET WORLD CUP
(Draft Resolution)
Mr N M RAJU: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with a great deal of national pride and abundant joy that South Africa is hosting the ICC Cricket World Cup with great flair and thorough professionalism;
(2) further notes that the opening ceremony of the Cricket World Cup at Newlands, Cape Town, on 8 February 2003 was an absolute humdinger, showcasing to billions all over the world the beauty and the beasts for which South Africa has become world famous to international tourists; and (3) places on record the sincere appreciation and gratitude of all South Africans to the three host nations of Kenya, South Africa and Zimbabwe for their exemplary hosting of the prestigious tournament, and especially to the United Cricket Board of SA for its special and singularly spectacular role in the ongoing proceedings.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chair, I want to propose an amendment to the previous motion, and then I do have a motion without notice. The amendment is the following:
That the following paragraph be added after paragraph (3):
(4) wishes South Africa well and believes, with confidence, that our team will proceed to the next stage and win the tournament on behalf of all South Africans.
Amendment agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution. Motion, as amended, agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution, namely:
That the Council -
(1) notes with a great deal of national pride and abundant joy that South Africa is hosting the ICC Cricket World Cup with great flair and thorough professionalism;
(2) further notes that the opening ceremony of the Cricket World Cup at Newlands, Cape Town, on 8 February 2003 was an absolute humdinger, showcasing to billions all over the world the beauty and the beasts for which South Africa has become world famous to international tourists; and
(3) places on record the sincere appreciation and gratitude of all South Africans to the three host nations of Kenya, South Africa and Zimbabwe for their exemplary hosting of the prestigious tournament, and especially to the United Cricket Board of SA for its special and singularly spectacular role in the ongoing proceedings.
(4) wishes South Africa well, and believes, with confidence, that our team will proceed to the next stage and win the tournament on behalf of all South Africans.
MOTION OF CONDOLENCE
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with sadness the passing away of Banoo N Ginwala at the age of 94 on Sunday, 23 February 2003. The late Banoo N Ginwala was the mother of the Speaker of the National Assembly, Comrade Dr Frene Ginwala, and Khorshed Ginwala, the former South African ambassador to Italy; (2) also notes the activism of the late Banoo Ginwala who, among many other things, provided shelter, accommodation and resources to members of the liberation movement in South Africa while she was in Mozambique;
(3) further notes the sense of values that she has imbued in her children, and in a daughter who now occupies a seat in the highest institution of this land: Parliament; and
(4) is of the view that, in the Speaker of the National Assembly and the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, we find the same kind of steadfastness and the characteristic resilience that the late Banoo Ginwala had shown - they are people who have been influenced in a particularly distinctive way by their mothers and by the kind of care and support that they had received, people who now occupy these very important seats with remarkable integrity, remarkable capacity and skill; and
(5) wishes to convey its sincere condolences to the Speaker and her family in their sad bereavement.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
PENSION PAYOUTS TO WIDOWS OF DECEASED POLICEMEN
(Draft Resolution)
Mnr P A MATTHEE: Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Raad -
(1) kennis neem van die mediaberig in Rapport van 23 Februarie 2003 waarvolgens geen uitbetalings ten opsigte van die pensioene van wyle inspekteur Pine Pienaar en wyle sersant Charles Dlamini, wat albei op 3 Julie 2002 in Memel in die Noordoos-Vrystaat doodgeskiet is, nog aan hulle weduwees gedoen is nie; (2) voorts kennis neem dat beide die oorlede polisiemanne ook jong kinders nagelaat het vir wie se kos, kleding, huisvesting en opvoeding hulle weduwees nou verantwoordelik is;
(3) ook kennis neem dat, as gevolg van die feit dat nog geen sodanige pensioenbetalings gedoen is nie, beide weduwees nou ‘n desperate stryd voer om in hulle en hulle kinders se noodsaaklike daaglikse behoeftes te voorsien; en
(4) die Minister van Veiligheid en Sekuriteit versoek om -
(a) dringend ondersoek te laat instel na waarom daar nog geen
pensioenuitbetalings ten opsigte van hierdie twee oorlede lede
gedoen is nie;
(b) te reël dat daar intussen voldoende finansiële en/of ander
materiële bystand aan die weduwees en kinders van hierdie twee
oorlede lede verleen word;
(c) ondersoek te laat instel na die situasie van die afhanklikes van
ander polisielede wat oor die afgelope drie jaar in diens van
die SA Polisiediens gesterf het, om sodoende vas te stel of daar
soortgelyke gevalle is; en
(d) die Raad so spoedig moontlik van 'n verslag na aanleiding van
die voormelde versoeke en daaruit voortspruitende ondersoeke te
voorsien. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)
[Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council-
(1) takes note of the article in Rapport of 23 February 2003 according to which no pension payouts have as yet been made to the widows of the late Inspector Pine Pienaar and the late Sergeant Charles Dlamini, who were both shot and killed on 3 July 2002 in Memel in the northeast Free State;
(2) further takes note that both the deceased policemen also left behind young children for whose food, clothing, accommodation and education their widows are now responsible;
(3) also takes note that as a result of the fact that no pension payouts have been made, both widows now wage a desperate struggle to provide for the essential daily needs of their children and themselves; and
(4) requests the Minister for Safety and Security to -
(a) launch an urgent investigation as to why no pension payouts have
as yet been made with regard to these two deceased members;
(b) arrange that sufficient financial and/or other material
assistance be provided in the interim to the widows and children
of these two deceased members;
(c) launch an investigation into the situation of the dependants of
other police members who have died over the past three years in
the service of the SA Police Service, to by so doing determine
whether there are other similar cases; and
(d) provide the Council with a report as soon as possible pursuant
to the above-mentioned requests and investigations arising from
them.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
POLICY OF MULTILINGUALISM ADOPTED
(Draft Resolution) Me E C GOUWS: Voorsitter, ek stel sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Raad kennis neem van die feit dat -
(1) die kabinet verlede week ‘n beleid van veeltaligheid aanvaar het;
(2) dít ‘n groot stap in die ontwikkeling van veeltaligheid is;
(3) Suid-Afrika die wêreld voor is wat beleid oor meertaligheid betref en dat nog net die Europese Unie (met groter finansiële vermoë en mannekrag-reserwes) al so iets aangepak het; en
(4) Suid-Afrikaners rede het om optimisties te wees en saam te werk om die tegniese implementering van die beleid te laat slaag. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)
[Ms E C Gouws: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council notes the fact that -
(1) Cabinet last week adopted a policy of multilingualism;
(2) this is a big step in the development of multilingualism;
(3) South Africa is ahead of the rest of the world concerning a policy on multilingualism and that only the European Union (with greater financial capability and manpower reserves) has undertaken something like this; and
(4) South Africans have reason to be optimistic and to work together towards the successful technical implementation of this policy.]
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I would like to get clarity on whether it is parliamentary for a member to quote another member in tabling a motion in the House. [Interjections.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): If he refers to what another member has said, there is nothing unparliamentary about that.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONTROL OF CHOLERA IN THE EASTERN CAPE
(Draft Resolution)
Mnu H T SOGONI: Sihlalo, ndenza isiphakamiso ngaphandle kokwenza isaziso:
Sokuba iKhansile -
(1) iyithabathele ingqalelo into yokuba isifo sorhudo singxamele ukugabadela kwimimandla ethile yeMpuma Koloni;
(2) ngokwengxelo yamajelo eendaba esi sifo sesisube imiphefumlo eliqela, kwaye abantu abangaphezulu kwewaka bafumana unyango kwiingingqi ze- O.R. Tambo neChris Hani; (3) ilincome igalelo nongenelelo olwenziwe liSebe leMicimbi yaManzi naMahlathi, elezeMpilo nelezoMkhosi kutshanje ukuhlangabezana nemeko exwebileyo okwexeshana;
(4) iyiqonde into yokuba imbiza yokufa ngamanzi angacocekanga nokunqongophala kwezindlu zangasese ezilalini; nokuba
(5) mayizinike ingqwalaselo izicwangciso zokuzisa iinkonzo zamanzi nezindlu zangasese kwilali ezintlithwa bubuhlwempu, ukuze esi sifo sibe nokuncothulwa neengcamu. (Translation of isiXhosa draft resolution follows.)
[Mr H T SOGONI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
[That the Council -
(1) notes that cholera is getting out of control in some areas of the Eastern Cape;
(2) notes that according to media reports the disease has already claimed many lives and that more than a thousand people in the O.R. Tambo and Chris Hani Districts are receiving treatment for the disease;
(3) expresses its appreciation of the contribution and intervention of the Departments of Water Affairs and Forestry, of Health and of Defence in bringing temporary relief during this critical situation;
(4) notes that the cause of all this is unclean water and the lack of toilets in the rural areas; and
(5) pays attention to plans to bring water and sanitation services to the rural areas that are subjected to abject poverty, in order to prevent further outbreaks of this disease.]
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Mr Chairperson, could somebody translate for us before we vote on it? All of us could unfortunately not understand. [Interjections.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Is there an interpreting service? If there is somebody, I can allow that person to translate the motion. Is there somebody in the interpreting booth? We are not going to vote on that motion now as we still have another motion. We’ll get somebody who can give us a translation, and then we will come back to that motion.
EARTHQUAKE IN THE REPUBLIC OF CHINA
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with concern the earthquake measuring 6.8 on the Richter scale that brought about untold devastation and misery in the lives of thousands of people from the region of Xinjian in the Republic of China;
(2) conveys its heartfelt condolences to those 257 families who have lost members and those thousands who were injured and are still being treated in hospitals; and
(3) congratulates the sterling efforts of rescue workers who have combed and continue to comb tirelessly through the rubble of more than 1 000 buildings which were flattened in the earthquake, for survivors despite the risk to themselves.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Can we go back to the motion we did not vote on? Is there a translation for the motion? [Inaudible.] I suggest that we proceed. We are not going to wait for this. Mr van Niekerk, do you insist on a translation before we vote on this? You can read it in the Hansard.
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, if we cannot get a translation now, which is pitiful, an explanation of the gist of the motion would enable us to vote on it.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Mr Sogoni, would you mind just briefly giving us the crux of your motion?
Mr H T SOGONI: Chair, the motion is about cholera, which has hit parts of the Eastern Cape very badly during the past few weeks. According to sources, over 1 000 people are being treated for cholera and quite a number of people have died. We appreciate the role that the Departments of Water Affairs and Forestry, of Health and of Defence have played to contain the disease. We are aware that the source of cholera is primarily unhealthy water and a lack of sanitation. A plea is made that clean water services and the provision of sanitation take priority if we are to contain this disease. Sorry about this.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Can I suggest that in future, when members want to move a motion in a different language, they arrange with the Table staff to provide an interpreting service, because we are now delaying the proceedings of the House.
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, excuse me, I understand what you just
said. I just want clarity on it. You said: If a member wants to table a
motion in any other language''.Other’’ language that what?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Well, we know, for example, that English and Afrikaans are being provided for. Those services are readily available. But at times interpreting services for other languages - African languages - are very scarce in Parliament. So members need to make prior arrangements in that regard in order to make this service available. Mr H T SOGONI: Chair, with due respect, may I know why there is no regular provision for the translation of the other languages, besides English and Afrikaans?
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE COUNCIL (Mr M J Mahlangu): Well, I have already said that we have a shortage of these people. Parliament is addressing that problem. That is why I was suggesting that if we let the Table staff know, they can make prior arrangements.
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Chairperson, my understanding of a motion without notice is that you do not have ample time to give notice of such a motion, and my view is that this would then go against the grain of how we define a motion without notice. With our last predicament, during which I personally volunteered to interpret a motion without notice, we were given the understanding and the commitment that it was at that time going to be the last time we encountered such an instance. So if we could stick to that commitment, it will allow our proceedings to run smoothly. The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): I think the point has been made made and it is taken. I think we need to address that. Thank you very much, hon member.
INFRASTRUCTURE AS A TOOL FOR SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT, WITH REFERENCE TO COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMMES AND OTHER PUBLIC WORKS INITIATIVES
(Subject for Discussion)
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Hon Chairperson and hon members of this House, let me start off by explaining my approach to this topic. As you listen to what I have to say, you will note that I will move beyond that which is community based. I will do so because of the President’s recent announcement in Parliament that nowadays we speak not just narrowly of the former community-based programmes, but also of the expanded Public Works Programme. So don’t be surprised by my approach, because I want us to be focused for the future.
The National Infrastructure Investment Report indicated that South Africa currently faces a backlog in infrastructure of at least R170 billion.
Public infrastructure needs include both domestic and industrial infrastructure. This includes everything that is within the built environment such as buildings of all types, bridges, roads, dams, railway lines, airports, stations, monuments, telecommunications and electricity infrastructure; as well as agricultural water supplies, sanitation, waste water and storm water. Also included is infrastructure related to urban housing, rural development, hospitals, clinics, educational facilities, courts, police stations, prisons - the list is endless.
We find that within the three spheres of government, we, as Public Works, have to deal with all of them, except in areas where you talk about that which is within Transport, Minerals and Energy, Agriculture and so forth. I mention these different types of infrastructure so that when you talk about the backlog in infrastructure, you actually realise the enormity of the task ahead of us and what it is that we have to do.
Investment, development and progress in all these areas will actually add to the quality of life in communities. At the same time, it will be building what we call ``productive economic capacity’’. For instance, the provision of basic household infrastructure, in particular, is a relatively low-cost and effective form of public intervention in favour of the poor, and it is consistent with the reduction in income inequalities.
Initiatives in the future are going to be taken to align certain areas of infrastructure, especially public social infrastructure. Nationally, housing subsidies, land development grants, local transport upgrading and community water supply and sanitation schemes are being aligned with the municipal infrastructure programme. In provincial governments, through which funds are allocated, criteria for priority spending are being defined.
Members have seen through the Community-Based Public Works Programmes that we have created a number of assets, and some of that infrastructure is infrastructure that deals with issues of social cohesion. In addition, what we do is also incorporated in the spatial development initiative in which economic infrastructure is upgraded to ensure that we also have participation by the private sector.
Investment in social infrastructure might start with what appears to be small issues like a crèche or a clinic, but can move on to huge structures such as maximum security prisons, some of our courts, universities, airports and harbours. However, what is important for us to note is the impact all of this infrastructure has on the lives of our people, and the creation of an environment suitable to our investors.
We know for a fact that no serious investor would want to invest in an area where there are no roads and electricity, and where the system of communication is very poor, let alone where there is no sure water supply.
At times we get very funny arguments - I want to raise this issue - as to why, together with Correctional Services, we are putting up the type of infrastructure we are in terms of prisons. The truth of the matter is that you can’t talk about rehabilitation in squalor. Cognisance must be taken of the fact that a prisoner will one day rejoin the community, and the chances of his reverting to crime will be minimised if he is taught skills while still in prison in order to equip him with knowledge to make him a better member of the community.
I am sure Minister Skosana has told you time and again about the type of furniture that is now made in prisons. It is the envy of even some of the best furniture manufacturers. He has also told you about how they deal with some of their land so that the person who comes out of prison is highly skilled and can become an acceptable member of society.
Members have already been told about some of the Government programmes such as electricity and water supply and so forth, which are really making a difference to the lives of our people. At this point I will also take note of the motion I just heard and will convey the message to my colleague.
Our Government spends billions on national and provincial roads, which at times do have private funding. In the Department of Public Works, for instance, we have the Apops programme for the building of prisons in terms of which the private sector invests and also runs the prisons, with Government paying an amount for rental. That actually frees up some Government money in order to deal with issues of a social nature.
To make sure that infrastructure becomes a tool for sustainable development, we must face some of the challenges that are there, for instance, our widespread poverty. We know that many millions of people are surviving below the minimum living level in South Africa. Of these, several million are in the rural areas. For instance, if you judge by the cholera incident that really took place in places like the Eastern Cape, then it becomes important that we look at how and what we bring to those areas.
That is why, of late, if you speak to anyone from that area they will say that their first priority is water supply and sanitation. Although we have committed to numerous projects and have progressed admirably with the supply of potable water to millions of people who previously did not have adequate access, basic living conditions impede poverty relief. The problem escalates when housing, education and health care facilities, as well as transport and other factors, are considered.
Nevertheless, the Government is committed to basic levels of infrastructure development, which will reduce the burden of poverty in rural areas and allow rural people to use their time more productively and, by so doing, contribute to national growth.
As the President said: ``The tide has turned.’’ When I deal with Community- Based Public Works projects, I can say with a smile that the tide has turned. If you look at some of our multipurpose centres, we have actually created infrastructure of a socially cohesive nature.
In the heart of KwaZulu-Natal the elderly, work-seekers and those who wanted to apply for ID documents, but who did not have money to travel, used to have to travel some 80 kilometres each way. But a miracle happened when we established multipurpose community centres which bring all those facilities closer to the people. It now takes only a short walk for makhulu MaMkhwanazi to apply for a passport or an old age pension. It takes a very short time for Joyce to get a form to see what jobs are available. It takes a very short time even for mama Makhathule in Lusikisiki to apply for an ID. That is infrastructure that has been created to make the lives of people very easy.
Also, with regard to the Community-Based Public Works Programme, as I said in this House some time back, we cannot afford to neglect some of the infrastructure which was created in another era but which has value for those areas, especially infrastructure to do with the former irrigation schemes. We have started reviving those so that instead of their being run directly by Government, they will end up being given to communities. The communities will, within their own right, have a centre of investment. I could take the whole day listing what it is that we do, but I wanted to give those two examples.
A lot of people associate economic growth with stronger employment creation. I want to say that for us the key is to have economic growth continually moving towards an equitable distribution of income and improved standards of living for all.
Provision of social infrastructure has important externalities, which have an impact on economic growth. Direct poverty alleviation addresses needs, and does not only benefit those people involved through direct remuneration. It also contributes to the building of long-term productive capacity and general human resource development.
I will touch on this aspect, because at no point do we in Public Works, when we are putting up a big structure, say that all the labourers must be brought in from outside the community. We make sure that the people are employed within the community, using the Department of Labour, which is very helpful. We, at least, say that those people must be trained for 45 days either in carpentry or painting and in other aspects that have to do with the building of a structure.
Therefore when the company finishes its work you still have people in the community with the know-how to deal with issues of maintenance and so forth. This is going to be required even more in what we as Government envisage for the future.
After all, the whole issue of Government wanting to have this expanded Public Works Programme is not only to create jobs, but also to ensure that those engaged are given the capacity to perform. This is because if there is one thing that is bad, it is to throw money at people when they have no capacity to use it. That’s like throwing gold at pigs.
The overall objective of this Government programme is to facilitate and create employment opportunities for the poor, the vulnerable and alienated groups through integrated and co-ordinated labour-intensive approaches. We are lucky in the sense that we have a stepping stone, because in the 1995 framework agreement between business, labour and Government on conditions of employment and skills development, a foundation was laid for the expanded Public Works Programme.
This agreement took recognition of the fact that infrastructure development is the key driver of economic growth and social development, with outcomes that lead to job creation, poverty eradication and income generation through an approach of labour-intensive methods of construction, development and maintenance.
This is going to be a key area in which even you, as members of this House, have to take an initiative. There are no people who know their areas better and the programmes that can be dealt with in their areas than you yourselves.
One of the sad happenings of the past was that we put up infrastructure,
and members of Parliament would just pass by and say: Ooh, this is a
white elephant.'' They don't tell us immediately, but go:Sh. Go and see;
there’s trouble there.’’ It just becomes a story over tea. Then, when one
goes on one of these tours, it is then that you raise something which has
been there and which you were seeing all the time.
So I want to implore you this afternoon to work together with us. If you see that something is going wrong, inform us almost immediately so that we can do something about it. This is because there is nothing as bad as Government throwing money at something, only to find that people were never consulted - the structure that was built was not aligned to their needs at a particular time. When we deal with this expanded programme, what we want to do is, as I have said, to focus on labour-intensive technology, community involvement and the creation of work opportunities. We are also looking at what the outcomes of this will be. First there is alignment, which I have already spoken about, and also the fact that participants will receive on-the-job training. But we are also emphatic in that specific opportunities should be given to women, the youth and the disabled by targeting these vulnerable groups and making sure that they participate.
Above all, we set up infrastructure that will create useful public assets, which will provide for social improvement and facilitate participation by microenterprises, especially by emerging contractors.
I want to deviate a little here. Again, regarding issues to do with
infrastructure, we talk of a group we call emerging contractors'', and
this is a term that worries me. It is going to be our tenth year, yet we
are still talking aboutemerging contractors’’. For how long will they
continue to emerge?
In the battle of ensuring that they also become part and parcel of development and growth, we must make sure that we get mentors for these people so that we don’t get a situation in which one says: ``This is the big company; the shareholding by the minor companies is 10%.’’ This is because in most cases that shareholding will just be a farce.
I am told that somewhere along this coastline some people had fishing rights which they sold for R25 000. The people to whom they sold the rights must have made millions. The word ``emerging’’ does create a problem. There must be encouragement from you and you must make sure that when big business steps in, even if it is in construction, you emphasise that these people be given a chance to grow. This is so that in the near future we can just talk about people in construction, not people who are emerging.
Yes, I know that right through life there will always be new entrepreneurs, but there is something about ``emerging’’ which somehow says that you must stay out there and you will emerge forever, as if this is a nice title to have.
Also, when we talk about the public infrastructure we have, we are actually talking about the nature of the delivery. The nature of the delivery is something that we also have to be on the lookout for. I always say, even when I have a press briefing, that there is nothing that worries me more than the fact that, owing to a lack of capacity, we don’t have people who watch closely while programmes are dealt with and that we don’t have the type of managers at times who are prepared to say, ``This is a job badly done,’’ and who make sure that we don’t pay for that job. But for some reason infrastructure gets certificated and we pay the people - in June it is a good road; in December it is one of the worst roads one would ever come across. I think that as members of this House you must begin to be the eyes and ears of Government.
I would like to round off by referring to information that is listed in the speech we prepared. In 1999 we created a total of 80 000 temporary jobs. A total of 33 970 women were employed; a total of 32 977 youth were employed; and a total of 2 011 disabled people were employed. We created over 2 000 assets for communities. You must remember that we are talking about one department only. It would be quite interesting if we had a full complement of what is happening in all the other departments.
We deliberately gave R100 million for construction projects by women, because they are always left out when the big people start to tender for projects. In some of our projects, which took place in 27 districts, we made sure that we trained 150 managers. Also, we made sure that we trained about 90 people who at times work as contractors, but who are not recognised because they have not been accredited and whose prior learning is not recognised. At one time it was said that Cape Town had no plumbers, but once we had put people through a few weeks of training we had them accredited and recognised as plumbers.
Given all this, it is clear that the expanded Public Works Programme has the potential to offer much more impressive employment and human resource development, provided we all put our shoulders to the wheel and engage the private sector as a participant. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms B THOMSON: Chairperson, what do we mean when we talk about infrastructure as a tool for sustainable development? Infrastructure development within a sustainable development context is about holistic thinking. It is about social and economic infrastructure development based on proper management of environmental resources for the preservation of future generations. As the ANC, we are committed to promoting and delivering social and economic infrastructure which both enhances the quality of life of our people and preserves infrastructure for generations to come.
Kubalulekile ukukhumbula ukuthi uma lezi zakhiwo zakhiwa, ngeke sihlale siyizintombi sinjengo-Beauty nezinsizwa lezi. Ngelinye ilanga siyoguga sibe amakhehla nezalukwazi. Kuyofunakala ukuthi-ke isizukulwane esilandelayo sikwazi ukuzibona lezi zakhiwo esizakhile. Kubalulekile ukuthi uma sezakhiwe siqaphele ukuthi siyazigada futhi sizinakekele. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[It is important to remember that these buildings were built. We will not remain ladies like Beauty and these gentlemen. One day we will get old and become old grannies and grandfathers. The next generation will need to see these buildings that we have built. It is important to look after them once they have been built.]
The Integrated Rural Development and Urban Renewal Strategies articulate our vision for an integrated and sustainable approach around infrastructure development. It provides a coherent framework for infrastructure delivery in a sustainable way. The key requirements for the practical implementation of these blueprints for social and economic development in the identified nodal points are community involvement and effective co-ordination.
Sizokhumbula ukuthi lezi yizizinda ezakhonjwa uMongameli wethu, uThabo Mbeki, okuhloswe ngazo ukuthi kuzanywe ukubhekelela abantu abahlwempu kakhulu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[We will remember that these are areas that were chosen by our President Thabo Mbeki, and the aim is to use them for the benefit of the poor.]
Communities will have to be brought on board. Municipalities and in particular ward committees need to create the kind of environment which will facilitate community involvement and encourage communities to take ownwership of their own development.
The two main objectives of community participation must be to ensure that infrastructure development projects deliver what the community needs and that the community establishes a sense of ownership and commitment which will ensure its long-term sustainability.
Kufuneka sikuqaphele-ke nokuthi, uma lezi zakhiwo zakhiwa, ngabe umphakathi sisuke siwuthintile yini ngaphambi kokuthi sakhe. Kufuneka siqaphele ukuthi singakhi ihholo kanti umphakathi udinga isikole noma sakhe isikole kanti umphakathi udinga umgwaqo ngoba lokho kuholela ekutheni umphakathi ungabi nokuziqhenya ngokuthi leyo ngqalasizinda esuke ilethiwe kungeyawo ngoba phela vele wona ubungazange waba nenhloso yokuthi yakhiwe. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[We also need to look at whether we have consulted the community before we build these buildings. We should be careful, for instance, not to build a hall while the community needs a school. And also not to build a school while the community needs a road because that leads to a situation where the community is not proud of those buildings which are theirs, because they were not their priority number one.] Infrastructure projects must therefore become instruments of community empowerment. For this, they need to to be sustained, and for them to be sustained they need to be maintained. This raises the important question of who should be responsible for the maintenance and preservation of infrastructure. Is it the national Government, the provincial or local government, or a combination of the three?
Siye sikubone nokuthi lokho kuba yinkinga lapho uthola uhulumeni wendawo ekhomba owesifunda kuqhubeke njalo njalo. Ngicabanga ukuthi lokho kukhombana kufuneka siqaphele ukuthi siyakugwema ngoba uthola ukuthi omunye ukhomba omunye ehlweni nomunye azame ukuvikela elakhe ihlo. Kuye kufuneke kucace ekugcineni ukuthi kahle kahle ubani okunguyena oqondene nokuthi lezi zingqalasizinda zigadwa kanjani uma sezakhiwe. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[We have also seen that usually it creates problems when a local government blames a provincial government and so on. I think we should avoid that situation of blaming one another because one finds that one person is blaming the other and the other is defending him or herself. It needs to be clear as to who is in charge of ensuring that these buildings are protected once they have been built.]
Local government is at the coalface of interaction with the communities. They are the primary implementation agencies. As such, they will have a key responsibility in terms of the delivery of infrastructure, as well as for its maintenance to ensure that it remains sustainable for use by future generations. However, they will need the continued support of provincial government and the national Government in this task. What is called for is thus a co-ordinated approach in which the three spheres of government work together.
Akufunakali sithi uma sesimlethile lo mntwana emhlabeni, oyihholo, bese sithi akazibonele njengechwane lenyoka ngoba yikhona lokho okubangela ukuthi ubone nezindlu sezigugile ezinye sezilala izinkomo ngoba asinalo uhlelo oluhleleke kahle, noma lukhona asilunaki, mayelana nokuthi ubani owenza ukuthi nokuthi emuva kokuba uHulumeni omkhulu eseyilethile leyo ngqalasizinda endaweni. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Once we have given birth to this child, which is the hall, we should not say to her that she should look after herself, like a baby snake. That is the reason why some of these buildings get dilapidated or become like a cattle kraal; it is because we do not have a proper plan. Even if it is there, we do not follow it properly, like saying: Who does this and that, once the national Government has brought the infrastructure to that particular area.]
The need for effective co-ordination is based on the understanding that national and provincial departments are in charge of policy-making, leaving implementation to local government. A lack of proper co-ordination runs the risk of creating a gap between the more abstract demands of policy formulation and the practical challenges of implementation, resulting in a distancing of policy processes from the challenges experienced at ground level. How can we best ensure that co-ordination between the three spheres of government around infrastructure development and maintenance takes place? Municipalities will have to make sure that their infrastructure development initiatives are incorporated in the Integrated Development Plans, the IDPs, and are also in turn aligned with the provincial and national strategies and plans.
The budgetary basis of the IDPs is an ideal framework to operationalise infrastructure development strategies, in the sense that it will be mainstreamed into the normal activities of municipalities. Also, it will ensure that the strategies are underpinned by institutional capacity and budget allocations.
Similarly, the alignment of IDPs with provincial and national strategies will ensure that local infrastructure development initiatives will be mainstreamed into the normal activities of provincial and national government, and underpinned by institutional capacity and budget allocations.
The benefit of such a co-ordinated approach is that it combines the prerequisites for holistic development with an acute understanding of the need for appropriate institutional structures to ensure that infrastructure initiatives are implemented. More than that, it ensures that infrastructure development initiatives are linked to financial resources.
The need for a co-ordinated approach to the implementation of infrastructure development projects cannot be stressed enough. Lack of co- ordination is one of the biggest constraints in the effective delivery of services. One can take health services for example. It is quite difficult to build a clinic if there is no other infrastructures such as roads or water. The improvement of roads would facilitate delivery, by enabling contractors to reach the site where the clinic must be constructed and to transport materials to such a site.
One can use a similar example of a school that needs to be built by the Department of Public Works. Even if the school is built it will serve little purpose if the Department of Education does not make adequate provision for teachers or learning materials. Perhaps the school does not have adequate recreational facilities, resulting in pupils preferring to go to schools outside the area where these facilities are available.
Uma ngingase ngibuze nje lapha eNdlini ukuthi mangaki amalungu ePhalamende anezingane ezifunda lapho ehlala khona uyothola ukuthi zincane kakhulu. Esikhundleni sokuxazulula lezo zinkinga esiye sizibone ezikoleni ezingasemakhaya, asikwenzi lokho. Siye sincamele ukuthi abantwana bethu sibafake ezimotweni sibase ezikoleni ezingaphandle ezinalezo zingqalasizinda. Ngibona ukuthi lezo yizinto okufuneka silwe nazo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[If I can ask this House how many members of Parliament have children who enrol in schools that are in their own communities, one would find that there are very few. Instead of solving the problems that we have in the schools around us in our communities, we do not do it. Instead we take our children by car to schools which are outside our communities, where there is good infrastructure. I think that these are the things that we should fight against.]
These examples illustrate the importance of co-ordination among the Departments of Transport, Public Works, Health and Education. However, it also provides an opportunity for the formation of public-private partnerships. Public-private partnerships offer local government, the private sector, nongovernmental organisations and the local community the opportunity to work together to improve infrastructure provision in needy areas. For such co-operation to be successful, it will have to be properly co-ordinated to remove some of the constraints such as the bureaucracy and red tape which tend to delay the implementation of projects in some municipalities.
Proper co-ordination, whether it is between the three spheres of government or in respect of public-private partnerships, avoids duplication. It creates a common focus, integrates planning and speeds up efficient delivery.
Kumama uCawe … [To mother Cawe …]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Order! Hon member, your time has expired.
Ms B THOMSON: Ngiyabonga. [Thank you.] [Applause.]
Dr P J C NEL: Mnr die Voorsitter, die lewering van infrastruktuurdienste soos die verspreiding van elektrisiteit, die lewering van ‘n effektiewe, betroubare vervoerstelsel, die voorsiening van water en sanitasie, die bou van skole en klinieke en die lewering van gesondheidsdienste van ‘n hoë standaard is van die belangrikste faktore om ‘n voortgesette gesonde ekonomie in enige land te ontwikkel en in stand te hou. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Dr P J C NEL: Mr Chairperson, the delivery of infrastructural services such as the distribution of electricity, the delivery of an effective, reliable transport system, the provision of water and sanitation, the building of schools and clinics and the delivery of health services of a high standard is one of the most important factors to develop and maintain a continued healthy economy in any country.]
Providing these services to meet the demands of all households, the business sector and civil society is one of the major challenges of sustainable economic development and growth.
I am aware of the fact that the Government has allocated billions of rand for spending on infrastructure. I am also aware of the fact that the Government has initiated many community development programmes, inter alia, the rural strategic plan to provide for infrastructure to the rural areas, for which we are very grateful.
The Consolidated Municipal Infrastructure Investment Programme was initiated to address the need for investment in water, sanitation, roads, storm water, energy and solid waste removal infrastructure in disadvantaged areas. The funding, however, is allocated partially on a provincial basis, and delivery is normally the responsibility of local government. There is no clear indication of the manner in which this is being undertaken. It would be a great pity if the R3,3 billion that has been allocated to the Consolidated Municipal Infrastructure Investment Programme’s fund since the inception of the CMIP was not spent in toto on the various project categories that have been initiated.
I say this because it is quite alarming to learn from the report of the Auditor-General on the financial statements of Public Works, for the financial year ending 31 March 2001, that there were serious shortcomings in the department’s system of internal control and that overall control was seriously weakened owing to the shortage of appropriate skills and a high staff turnover. As Public Works is playing such a pivotal role in the creation and building of the necessary infrastructure for the country, one can only hope that most of these shortcomings were overcome in the past financial year.
If one takes into consideration the huge backlog in the funds for the provision and maintenance of infrastructure, spelt out by the hon Minister here today, it is quite clear that the spending of existing funds must be controlled very strictly.
The effective transportation of people and goods is a basic requirement for healthy economic and social development in South Africa and Africa as a whole. As enablers of development, roads are seen as essential components of the South African transport system and one of the most significant investments by the country in its transport infrastructure.
According to the Department of Transport, it is grappling with the sustainability and with the deterioration of the South African road network. Currently, the department is spending R3,3 billion annually below the required levels needed to preserve our road network.
It is the responsibility of the Government in the national, provincial and local spheres to see to it that the transport infrastructure, including road and rail networks, harbours, airports and pipeline systems, are established and maintained to stimulate economic growth and restore imbalances between geographic regions and communities.
Mnr die Voorsitter, die opvoeding van ons kinders is van die allergrootste belang. Sonder genoegsame skole op die regte plekke is dit egter ‘n onbegonne taak. Die beplanning van woongebiede moet nie net voorsiening maak vir behuising nie, maar moet ook voorsiening maak vir die bou van skole en die voorsiening van parke en oop ruimtes en gesondheidsdienste.
Dit gebeur nog te veel dat skole op verkeerde plekke gebou word en waar dit broodnodig is, word dit nagelaat. Dit bevorder verseker nie die skepping van ‘n klimaat waarin ons kinders met trots en waardigheid kan studeer en opgroei nie. Ek was ontsteld om onlangs in Die Volksblad van 28 Januarie hierdie jaar te lees van die haglike omstandighede waarin leerders onderrig moet ontvang by Mmabana skool in Wesselsbron in die Vrystaat. Agthonderd en twintig leerders word in nege klein klaskamers en 18 sinkhutte geakkommodeer. Ek haal graag aan uit die berig wat die skoolhoof in dié verband gesê het. Me Hellen Sanqai sê:
Deur - en vensterlose klaskamers maak omstandighede by die skool ondraaglik. In die winter is die klaskamers soos yskaste en in die somer is dit warm en vol stof. Leerders wat skool bywoon, het nie eens toiletgeriewe nie en moet in skooltyd na toilette by huise in die omgewing gaan.
Hierdie skool is reeds ses jaar gelede in gebruik geneem. Dit is net nog ‘n bewys dat daar ‘n gebrek aan goeie beplanning is, want in sekere dele van die Vrystaat staan skole wat onlangs gebou is, leeg. Beter koördinasie tussen departemente is beslis nodig in hierdie verband. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr Chairperson, the education of our children is of the greatest importance. However, without enough schools in the right places this is an impossible task. The planning of residential areas must not only make provision for housing, but should also make provision for the building of schools and the provision of parks and open spaces and health services.
It is still too often the case that schools are built in the wrong places and are not built where they are desperately needed. This certainly does not promote the creation of a climate in which our children can study and grow up with pride and dignity. I was upset to read recently in Die Volksblad of 28 January this year about the terrible conditions under which learners have to be taught at Mmabana school in Wesselsbron in the Free State. Eight hundred and twenty learners are accommodated in nine small classrooms and 18 galvanised iron huts. I will quote from the article what the school principal said in this regard. Ms Hellen Sanqai said:
Deur- en vensterlose klaskamers maak omstandighede by die skool ondraaglik. In die winter is die klaskamers soos yskaste en in die somer is dit warm en vol stof. Leerders wat skool bywoon, het nie eens toiletgeriewe nie en moet in skooltyd na toilette by huise in die omgewing gaan.
This school was already put into service six years ago. This is yet further evidence that there is a lack of good planning, because in certain sections of the Free State schools which have recently been built are standing empty. Better co-ordination between departments is certainly needed in this regard.]
It is, however, very encouraging to hear what the hon Minister of Housing had to say about this in a parliamentary media briefing on 20 February this year. I quote:
The President’s announcement of new urban renewal and integrated sustainable rural development programmes in a number of cities and villages across the country set down a huge new challenge for all of us in housing at the national, provincial and local government levels. And not in housing alone, because the integrated nature of these programmes means that we must work together with our sister departments across a range of big intervention areas. Housing’s pivotal role in achieving these goals is clear. Creating a secure and healthy housing environment within upgraded and well-integrated communities demands, however, sustainable and affordable municipal services and health services.
I would like to conclude by … [Time expired.]
Thank you, Mr Chair. [Applause.]
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Deputy Chair, apartheid created a system of large disparities between racial groups in terms of employment opportunities, education and housing. I know that many of us in this House would not like to hear this but it is a fact. The effects of this system are still present today.
The poor suffer not only from an absolute lack of key assets, such as land, education, skills and health, but also face limited choices with respect to livelihood strategies. Strengthening and supporting the assets of the poor, whether human, physical or social, help to counter their vulnerability to poverty. Expanding infrastructure development has multiple objectives of providing poverty relief, development and income generation, and it empowers the poor.
The need to expand economic infrastructure in its own right has been used simultaneously to fight poverty throughout Asia, Africa and Latin America. The rationale is that government capital spending can be used to improve the productivity and earning power of poor people and their assets, for example, by providing access roads to markets or irrigation for agriculture. Such projects form part of strategies of poverty reduction that attempt to alleviate high and persistent levels of unemployment and a lack of infrastructure, particularly in the deprived rural communities.
Expanding infrastructure via labour-intensive strategies helps in the eradication of poverty in two ways. Firstly, it provides paid employment; and, secondly, it creates things that poor people can use to increase their ability to generate income.
Am I protected, Deputy Chair? There is a lot of disturbance behind me.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Hon members, can we give each other a chance to debate please? It would be good for us to listen. Continue, hon member. You are protected.
Mr M A SULLIMAN: The benefits of expanding infrastructure by all national departments - from Public Works to Health, Education, Transport, Housing, and Water Affairs and Forestry - and through all corresponding departments at provincial levels reach the very poor communities.
In the light of this, I will demonstrate the experience of our province, the Northern Cape. The Northern Cape has completed the following examples of Community-Based Public Works Programmes for the 2002-03 financial year. There is the example of the building of a multipurpose hall in Pescodia, Kimberly. The contract was awarded as a joint venture between a local historically disadvantaged company and an established company, and it created jobs for our people.
Another example is the building of a crèche in Louisvale in which 39 local people were employed for a period of about five months. In Paballelo there is the construction of access roads in the townships amounting to R1,9 million. This project is being done in conjunction with the municipality to identify the workforce and in order to participate in the project management thereof. There has also been the R12 million funded, labour- intensive project on cleaning the sides of our provincial roads and widening our roads. Local people were trained and made to carry out this work themselves, and 855 people were employed during the 2002-03 financial year. It is expected that these people will remain employed for the next financial year.
In addition, a new legislature building was built last year. The official opening of our new legislature building will take place this coming Thursday, and we expect about 10 000 visitors at the ceremony. This project employed 869 people. The main contractors in this project were Murray & Roberts and the Cape Builders Forum with an equity share of 60:40% respectively, while 55% of the subconstruction was awarded to local historically disadvantaged people.
Members of this House must bear in mind that the legislature building is near Galeshewe, a low-income residential area. Therefore, the construction of the legislature in our province has huge income-multiplying effects since it is physically well placed to provide employment to the adjacent residential areas. The multiplying economic benefits, such as increased employment opportunities, are not incorporated in the numerical cost of the building of the legislature. The province is in the process of establishing a new administration block through a private-public partnership. The successful or preferred bidder is expected to have no fewer than than 40% of his or her partners from the historically disadvantaged. The provincial department of public works is also managing building projects on behalf of the other departments in our province, and 80% of all these projects are given to SMMEs.
Public works in our province has engaged aggressively on an emerging contractors’ development programme. The programme is designed to assist in identifying potential small contractors and to build a database of them. Each contractor will be mentored and monitored until they advance to the stage at which tenders can be obtained for projects. Seventy-five historically disadvantaged companies have been registered; 22 of them comprise women and 15 of them comprise the youth. Moreover, since April 2002 the provincial department of public works in the Northern Cape has awarded 36% of all projects to women-owned contracting firms. In rand terms, this amounts to just more than R9 million.
In addition, a 30% women-owned company completed two projects totalling R6 million within six months. One of the projects is a one-stop service centre in Colesberg and the other is a multipurpose hall in Kimberley.
Finally, members of this House must note that fighting poverty is not an event but a process. We do not expect to reduce poverty at the tip of this continent by the mere institution of a few Public Works programmes. However, we take solace in the knowledge that no other government of this country, except the ANC-led Government, has had the political will and courage to make a modest start.
With these few remarks, I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr N M RAJU: Hon Deputy Chair, hon Minister, hon colleagues, at the recently held World Summit on Sustainable Development in South Africa the overarching theme was the link between poverty eradication and environmental degradation.
Among the many challenges that emerged at the summit were challenges that are especially relevant to South African society, namely inspiring local projects that address poverty, and the empowering of women and the youth. I notice, very gladly so, that the hon Minister in her introductory remarks referred to all three of these subjects and to what the Ministry is doing to address that situation.
In the Standard Bank Group report: An Economic Profile of South Africa 2002, Dr Iraj Abedian, Director and Group Economist, states:
The Achilles heel of the social-economic environment has been, and remains, unemployment. Even here, it might be argued that the conditions are as much about ``unemployability’’ as about employment.
We cannot run away from the fact that the South African economy in both the public and private sector is dogged by the shortage of skilled and knowledgeable workers. Considerable numbers of vacancies continue to exist in these sectors of our economy. The DP concurs with the assertion made in the Standard Bank report that the unemployment of skilled personnel is exacerbated by the ``foot-dragging in introducing an appropriate immigration policy to facilitate skills importation’’ to boost growth and job creation.
Skills development, capacity-building and support programmes are essential ingredients for infrastructure development in any sphere of activity. The hon Minister has already referred to the kind of infrastructure that is required in our communities, especially in the rural communities, when applications are made for grants and ID documents, to register births and deaths, and so on.
When the NCOP had its sitting in the Eastern Cape last year, we came to understand first-hand some of the frustrations and problems experienced by the people, especially in the rural areas. So we understand and appreciate the concerns that the hon Minister has referred to.
The hon President of the Republic, Thabo Mbeki, has alluded to the yeoman tasks undertaken by the Letsema volunteers who have set an example, in various initiatives, to ensure that the frontiers of poverty, however formidable, continue to be pushed back. The spontaneous response of all South Africans - the high and the mighty, the rich and the poor, the abled and the disabled, both men and women, the aged and the young - to the call of Vukuzenzele must be applauded. This idea of volunteerism is yet another manifestation of the spirit of ubuntu: I am, because you are!
During the American civil rights movement in the 1960s - the Kennedy years
- when Afro-Americans were engaged in a relentless struggle for human rights, freedom and justice, leaders like Martin Luther King, Malcolm X and others called upon Afro-Americans not to look for hand-outs but to buckle down, pull themselves up by their bootstraps and regain their dignity and respect. Former British Prime Minister Baroness Margaret Thatcher once berated her fellow citizens for being a nation of ``moaning minnies’’. In South Africa it is an immense challenge to reconstruct a country ravaged by a history of racism, with its concomitant aspects of denial and neglect. But from the ashes of apartheid the phoenix of self-respect, dignity and self- sufficiency must rise triumphantly, for sure.
However, the necessary infrastructure has to be put in place. Communities need to involve themselves in putting in place the infrastructural tools for sustainable development. The building of schools, clinics, hospitals, old age homes, childcare centres and the like makes up the physical face of a wholesome community. Public Works initiatives are part and parcel of any action plan to eradicate poverty and restore dignity to those living in unfortunate circumstances.
Early last year the Select Committee on Public Services of the National Council of Provinces undertook a study tour of Thailand. One of the many projects of an infrastructural nature was a visit to the Rom-Klao housing project, in the district of Bangkok.
The housing project is a semicompleted new town established to solve the housing shortage problems in the Bangkok metropolitan area for the low, middle and high-income groups. Some of the public facilities and utilities included electricity, water supply, septic tanks, a drainage system, a water treatment system, a flood prevention system, telephones and garbage collection.
The communal facility included two child daycare centres, two kindergartens, one primary school, one secondary school, eight playgrounds, one public park with a sports centre, one police kiosk, eight public telephones, one bus terminal and one community hall. All this was done in such a way as to establish a self-sufficient and proud community.
Some of the houses are one-storey and two-storey row houses, two-storey semidetached houses, three-storey semidetached houses, and two-storey and three-storey shop houses. Now, that’s interesting. If people want to have a shebeen or sell food they can apply for these shop houses so that they conduct the business in the shop below while the house is on top. In shebeens, food houses and so on in our townships where business is conducted, I sometimes wonder what happens to the children in those households. Where do they find the place and time to study in a congenial atmosphere?
Here we have a kind of solution so that whatever the parents undertake … [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Dkt B M RADEBE (KwaZulu-Natali): Ngiyabonga Sihlalo ukuthola leli thuba. Ngicabanga ukuthi okuningi ebengithi ngizokusho uNgqongqoshe umama uSigcau usekuthintile. Okubaluleke kakhulu ukubonga ukuzibophezela kwalo hulumeni wentando yeningi ekutheni elekelele ekuguquleni izimpilo zabantu. Umama uSigcau ukhulume ngalezi zinhla uHulumeni aqhamuke nazo. Kuyiqiniso ukuthi abantu bakithi bebehamba amakhilomitha anga-300 kuya kwangama-400. Bekufanele bagibele bayolanda amapasi, bayobhalisa izimpesheni emadolobheni. Kodwa ngenxa yalolu hlelo lwezinhla uHulumeni aqhamuke nalo, njengokuthi kube khona indawo yezenhlalakahle, kube khona indawo yamapasi … (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[Dr B M RADEBE: (KwaZulu-Natal): Thank you, Chairperson, for this opportunity. I think a lot of what I was going to say has already been mentioned by the hon Minister. What is important is that we appreciate the democratic Government’s commitment to improving people’s lives. Minister Sigcau talked about these clusters that the Government has proposed. It is true that our people used to travel about 300 to 400 kilometres. Sometimes they had to take buses to get to where they had to collect their IDs and to get to town to register for pensions. But because of these structures that the Government has come up with, a welfare office, an office where people can collect their Ids …]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Order! I have just been informed that the interpreter is on his way to interpret. This, again, is disorganising us. If only our interpreters could be on stand-by and immediately interpret when the member speaks an African language. Please continue, hon member.
Dkt B M RADEBE (KwaZulu-Natali): Lezi zinto umama uSigcau akhuluma ngazo izinto engicabanga ukuthi abantu bakithi, ikakhulukazi abantu basemakhaya, sezibasize kakhulu, ngoba bekufanele bagibele, ngalezi zimali ezincane zezimpesheni abekade bezithola, ukuze bazothola izingqalasizinda, amapasi, izinto zokuthi zibasize, nazo zonke ezinye izinto. Ezinye izinto umama azishilo lapha ngicabanga ukuthi yizinto ezibalulekile. Njengephothifolyo komidi yezeMisebenzi yoMphakathi kanye noHulumeni basekhaya, sibe nohlelo esilwenzile lokulalelwa kwezikhalo zomphakathi ngokuhlanganyela emva kokuba sitholile ukuthi imali efakwa uHulumeni, ikakhulukazi ezindaweni zabantu bakithi, ayifiki ngendlela uHulumeni afuna ifike ngayo.
UHulumeni uyayifaka imali eningi, kodwa uma sekufanele ukuba isetshenziswe laphaya kubantu emazingeni aphansi, ayifiki kubo noma kwesinye isikhathi ithatha isikhathi eside ngaphambi kokuba abantu bakithi bayithole.
Nginekhophi lapha yezokulalelwa kwezikhalo zomphakathi, ngizoyishiyela uNgqongqoshe ukuze athi ukuyibheka lapho abantu bekhuluma khona. Ngalolu hlelo lokulalela umphakathi siqale eHadingi, saya eMgungundlovu, eNyukhasela, eLadysmith, oLundi, eVryheid naseKokstad. Abantu bebekhuluma ngezinkinga abahlangana nazo yize uHulumeni eseshilo ukuthi akwakhiwe iphrojekthi ewuhlobo oluthile. Okokuqala, umqulu wamathenda, ngumqulu omkhulu kakhulu futhi ubhalwe ngolimi abantu bakithi abangaluqondi. Okwesibili, uma abantu bakithi laba uHulumeni athi abanikwe umsebenzi, ngithandile uma uNgqongqoshe ethi akudlulwe manje kulokhu kokuthi bangabezinkonteleka ezisafufusa. Nabo manje ake bebe osozinkontoleka nje ngoba kunokuhlukunyezwa okukhulu okwenziwa yilezi zinkonteleka ezinkulu zikwenza kulezi okuthiwa zisafufusa, ziyafufusa, ziyofufusa kuyoze kube yinini.
Enye yezinkinga ekhona lapha ukuthi abantu bakithi uma sebenikezwa le misebenzi, ikakhulukazi ngikhuluma ngesifundazwe engivela kuso iKwaZulu- Natali, enye inkinga ekhalisa abantu bakithi ukusebenzisa ipolitiki ngemali kahulumeni. Yinkinga enkulu le KwaZulu-Natali lapho abantu okufanele bakhiphe amakhadi obulungu balelo qembu eliphethe kuleyo ndawo kuqala ngaphambi kokuthi banikezwe amathenda. Akumina Sihlalo osho njalo, uNgqongqoshe uzozitholela lokhu kulo mbiko wokulalelwa kwezikhalo zabantu. Nginawo ngisho amakhasethi ngoba yaqoshwa leya nto eyayishiwo ngabantu laphaya ukuthi abantu bakithi baxhashazwa ngendlela yokuthi le mihlomulo nale mali uHulumeni athi ayiye kosiza abantu, ayifiki kubona. Ngenhlanhla ilungu elihloniphekile uBarbara Thompson noMntwana uZulu babekhona kwaNyama esithangamini sokulalela izikhalo zomphakathi. Abantu babekhala mi izinyembezi bethi imali uhulumeni abanika yona ayifiki kubo.
Kunezinye izinto ezenzekayo laphaya kubantu bakithi uma uHulumeni useyikhiphile imali. Ngithi angizisho lezi zinto ngoba zingezinye zezinto ezibambezela lokhu kunikezelwa uNgqongqoshe akhuluma ngakho, lapho abantu bakithi kufanele banikezwe amathenda, kodwa bese kuba nokubambezeleka kube sekudluliwe njalo nakulabo abekade benikezwa amathenda. Uthola ukuthi umuntu unikeziwe ithenda endaweni ethile, inkosi ethile, hhayi eyodwa, abantu bakithi babenikezwe ithenda, ngaphambi kokuba umsebenzi uqale, inkosi, iyakucela ukuba uyikhokhele ngokuthi nje iyinkosi njengoba kwenzeka eSoth Coast.
Umuntu ube esekhokhela inkosi u-R15 000 ngaphambi kokuthi uqale iphrojekthi uNgqongqoshe athe ayokhokhela izinhla zeminyango lapho abantu bakithi beyolanda khona amapasi. Amakhosi hhayi eyodwa, hhayi amabili, hhayi amathathu, ave ebaxhaphaza abantu bakithi ngalolo luhlobo. Ngizama ukusho ukuthi lo mnyango wakho Ngqongqoshe ubaluleke kakhulu. Angazi ukuthi yikuphi ukungenelela ongakwenza njengomnyango ukuze ulungise lokhu kuxhashwazwa kwabantu bakithi okwenziwa laphaya ezindaweni zasemakhaya. Omunye umuntu uMnu. Mthembu wenze umsebenzi ka-R300 000, uthe uma eseqedile ukwenza umsebenzi, umxhumanisi wafika kuye wathi uzomkhokhela u-R16 000. Lokhu kwenzeka oLundi, kukhona lapha embikweni wokulalelwa kwezikhalo zomphakathi.
UMthembu wabe eseyibuza ukuthi kungani. wathi umxhumanisi, cha sengibuye ngacabanga ukuthi lo msebenzi owenzile awubizi u-R300 000, ubiza u-R16 000. Kodwa njalo umsebenzi sewuphelile. Kwabe sekwenzekani-ke emva kwalokho? Wakhokhelwa lo R16 000. Wabe esebuyela kuye lo mxhumanisi, wathi ucela ukuba uMthembu asayine ifomu ayeyiphethe. Wathi kulungile ngizoyisayina ifomu kodwa ngizoke ngiye kwabafundile bayoyibheka ukuthi ithini. Ifomu yayithi ``mina sibanibani Mthembu ngidlulisela imali yami’’, useqoke enye iNkonteleka yomlungu, ithi-ke ifomu ngidlulisela ingxenye esele yalo R300 000 kule nkampani entsha, ngomsebenzi ongasekho osewuphelile, owenziwe uMthembu manje sekufanele kuhole ngawo umuntu ongazange aze awenze.
Engikushoyo ukuthi uNgqongqoshe unomsebenzi omkhulu okufanele awenze. Angazi kade ngicabanga sikhuluma laphaya izolo kwi-Phothifolyo komidi sixoxa sithi mhlawumbe kuzofanele sicele lapha kwandlunkulu ukuthi kube nomthetho, ozovumela umnyango kazwelonke ukuba ungenelele futhi baqaphe imali abayifakile ngoba le mali ifakwa uHulumeni ukuthi ayisize bonke abantu noma ngabe bangabaliphi iqembu lezombusazwe.
Kodwa kwesakithi isifundazwe akunjalo, akunjalo, cha akunjalo, yiyo-ke inkinga leyo, njengoba ngisho-ke ngithi nginawo lo mbiko uNgqongqoshe angawubheka. Uma efuna amakhasethi nawo uzowathola ngoba saqopha konke ukuze ayinqande le nto ngoba uma kungenjalo ekugcineni abantu bayothi uHulumeni akenzi lutho. Kodwa empeleni uHulumeni ufaka izigidi zamarandi ukuze abantu basemakhaya bathole izinkulisa, bakhelwe izikole, imigwaqo akube khona izindawo lapho bezoshaya khona amapasi nezinto ezitholwe emnyangweni wezenhlalakahle.
Okokugcina, noma ngabe ibhizinisi lakho liphumelela kangakanani, kodwa uma ungekho enhlanganweni yalowo ophethe kuleyo ndawo, bakutshela kwezikabhoqo nje ukuthi ``ngeke sikunike umsebenzi ngoba awusilo ilungu leqembu lethu’’, konke kubhalwe lapha kulo mbiko.
Ngicabanga nanokuthi ngithathe lo mbiko ngiwudlulisele ophikweni loFezela ukuze bakuphenye lokhu ngoba ngempela phela inkohlakalo le, ukuthi umuntu anikezwe ithenda bese ifika inkosi ithi umuntu akakhokhe u-R15 kuya ku-R20 000, inkohlakalo leyo. Kuthiwa imali yokuthi uyazethula enkosini, kufanele azethule ngo-R15 000. Ekugcineni le nto ibambezela le ntuthuko esikhuluma ngayo, ngoba lo muntu ngenkathi ehlela izimali efaka isicelo sokwenza umsebenzi, akazange awubale lo R15 000 wokugwazela inkosi. Ugcina engasabakhokheli abantu abaqashile ngoba le mali abekade eyibekele ukuthi uzokwenza ngayo lo msebenzi, u-R15 000, sewuthathwe inkosi, sewuthathwe yinduna, sewuthathwe usibanibani. Ekugcineni-ke abantu bakithi bagcine bengaholanga.
Ngakho-ke ngizama ukusho ukuthi ngijabule kabi ukuzwa uNgqongqoshe ekhuluma ngale ndlela akhulume ngayo. Ngiyazi ukuthi yini okufanele yenziwe, kodwa ngifuna ukuphakamisa ukuthi mhlawumbe kungakuhle uma uNgqongqoshe engake aqhamuke nomthetho othile ozovikela labosonkontileka abasafufusa, ukuze bangagcini bengosonkontileka abasafufusa nje. Futhi nokuthi balandelwe ukuze kubhekwe ukuthi bangasizwa kanjani, yini engenziwa ukusiza laba bantu asebexhashaziwe bakhokhiswa o-R15 000 abanye banikwa o-R16 000 esikhundleni sika-R300 000, yini engenziwa. Kodwa nakanjani kukhona okufanele kwenziwe.
Ngaphambi kokuba ngihlale phansi, ngifisa ukuncoma umnyango. Siyakubonga Mama uSigcau, besihlala sihamba nawe lina noma libalele, uphusha la maphrojekthi akhuluma ngawo uMongameli wethu. Kodwa kuyasihlupha ukuthi uma sewufulathele ubheke le, bayishintsha yonke le nto ofisa yenzeke bese bona benza ezabo izinto. Kubuhlungu kithina esihlala laphaya, ngakho-ke isicelo sami emnyangweni ukuthi angazi ukuthi yini engenziwa ukulungisa lokhu kuxhashazwa nokuhlukunyezwa kwabantu bakithi kuleziya zindawo.
Izimeya zidlala ngabantu, enye yezinto ukuthi ziyaye zihambe ziyofuna iminikelo eShayina, zibuye zizomemezela zithi sizoletha into ethile lapho endaweni ethile, bese uthola ukuthi le nto abayilethile into yemali ewumnikelo, mhlawumbe umshini wokuthunga obe uwumnikelo. Bese kwenziwa incwadi ebonisa izinto ezithengwe uMkhandlu ukukhombisa ukuthi imishini ithengiwe, kanti ayithengiwe, iminikelo. Lezi ngezinye zezinkinga esibhekana nazo kulesiya sifundazwe sakithi. Ngakho-ke ngizama ukuthi ngisho kuNgqongqoshe nomnyango ukuthi singajabula uma kungase kube khona indlela yokuxazulula. Sizothinta khona manje iPhothifolyo komidi yezeMisebenzi yoMphakathi ngoba kufanele siyobika ngezinto esizitholile futhi sisho nezinto ezizosiza laba bantu ngoba … [Kwaphela isikhathi.] [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Dr B M RADEBE (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, the things Minister Sigcau talked about are the things from which our people have benefited, especially the rural people, because in the past they had to use their small pensions on going to collect such basic documents as IDs and other things that would help them in their lives. Some of the things Mother Sigcau said are very important as far as I am concerned. As the Select Committee on Public Works and Local Government, we arranged some public hearings after we learnt that the money the Government had given to the areas where our people live did not reach our people in the way the Government had wanted it to.
The Government does put a lot of money down, but it does not reach the people at grassroots level, or sometimes it takes a long time for our people to get the money.
I have a copy of the report on the public hearings and I will leave it for the Minister so that she can read it and see where the people were from. We started with this public hearing process in Harding. We then moved to Pietermaritzburg, Newcastle, Ladysmith, Ulundi, Vryheid and Kokstad. People were talking about the problems they were experiencing even though the Government had said that certain projects should be built.
Firstly, there is a large number of tenders and they are written in a language that our people do not understand. Secondly, about our people, the ones that the Government said should be given jobs, I am happy to hear the Minister say that these people should no longer be called small contractors. They, too, must be independent contractors, because there is a great deal of abuse by independent contractors of the small contractors. They are always referred to as emerging contractors. For how long will they be called emerging contractors?
Another problem our people experience when they are given these jobs, especially in KwaZulu-Natal where I come from, is the use of the Government’s money for political purposes. This is a big problem in KwaZulu- Natal, where people have to produce membership cards of the political party that is in charge of that particular area before they are given tenders. It is not I who says so, because the Minister will find this in the report on the public hearings. I even have cassettes, because we recorded everything that was said. Our people are exploited to such an extent that the benefits of the money that the Government sends do not reach them.
Fortunately, hon members like Barbara Thompson and Prince Zulu were present at the public hearing which was held at Mnyama. People were literally crying, saying that the money that the Government was giving them did not reach them.
Other things are happening to our people after the Government releases the money. I feel I must mention these things, because they are the things that delay the delivery process the Minister is talking about, the process in which our people should be given tenders. However, some delays are experienced even by those to whom tenders have already been given.
One finds that a person is given a tender in a particular area. Then, an inkosi asks that person who has been given the tender to pay him before he can even start the work. This has been happening on the South Coast.
The person has to pay the inkosi about R15 000 before he starts the project with the money that the hon Minster said would be used to pay for the clusters at which people could collect their IDs. Amakhosi, not one, not two, but many of them, are exploiting our people in that manner.
What I am trying to say is that your department, hon Minister, is very important. I do not know what sort of intervention you can make to stop this exploitation of our people, especially in the rural areas. One man, Mr Mthembu, did a job worth R300 000. After finishing this job, a consultant came to him and said that he would pay him only R16 000. This happened in Ulundi, and it is also included in the report that I have here on the public hearings. When Mr Mthembu asked the consultant why, the consultant said: ``I have given this more thought and I have realised that the job you did was not worth R300 000. It is worth only R16 000.’’
What happened after that was that Mr Mthembu was paid the R16 000. The
consultant then asked him to sign a form, which he had in his hands. Mr
Mthembu said: Okay, I will sign the form, but I will first consult with
educated people to check with them what the form says.'' The form said:
I, so and so Mthembu, hereby transfer my money to another white
contractor.’’ The form said he was transferring the remainder of the
R300 000 for the completed work done to this new company. Now the person
who is going to get the benefit of that is the one who did not do the job.
What I am saying is that the hon Minister has a big job to do. We discussed this in the select committee and agreed that perhaps we should ask the national Government to pass legislation that will enable the national Department of Public Works to intervene and monitor the money they give to provincial governments, because this money is given by the national Government to help everyone, regardless of their political affiliation. But in our province this is not so. It is not so, and this is a problem.
As I have said, I have the report that the hon Minister can look at. If she wants the cassettes, she can also get them because we recorded everything. She can stop all these things, because if that is not done, people will say at the end of the day that the Government is not doing a thing, when, in fact, the Government puts down millions of rands so that rural people can get créches, schools, roads and places where they can register for their ID documents and receive other things from the Department of Social Development.
Lastly, no matter how successful one’s business is, if one does not belong to the party that the person in charge of that area belongs to, one is told face to face that: ``We will not give you the job because you do not belong to our party’’. All these things are included in the report.
I am even thinking of taking this report to the Scorpions so that they can investigate, because it really is corruption if a person is given a tender and then the inkosi tells that person to pay him R15 000 or R20 000. That is corruption. They say that that money is the money through which someone is introducing himself to the inkosi. They say he should introduce himself by paying R15 000.
In the end, this will delay the development we are talking about, because when a person does his calculations, he does not budget for this R15 000 with which he is supposed to bribe the inkosi. He ends up being unable to pay his workers because the money he reserved for this work, which is R15 000, has been taken by the inkosi. It is taken by a headman, or it is taken by so and so. As a result, our people do not get their salaries.
Therefore, what I am trying to say is that I was very happy to hear what the hon the Minister said. I know what should be done, but I want to suggest that perhaps it would be better if the hon Minister could come up with legislation that will protect emerging contractors so that they don’t end up staying emerging contractors.
We should also look at how they can be assisted, what should be done to help those who have been exploited, who have already paid those amounts of R15 000 and those who were given R16 000 instead of R300 000. What can be done to help them? No matter what, something should be done to help them. Before I sit down, I would like to say congratulations to the department. We congratulate you, Mother Sigcau, on the fact that you were always with us, whether it was sunny or rainy. You were pushing these projects that our President was talking about. But it worries us to see that the moment you turn your back, they change all the things you wanted to have happen for us and start doing their own thing. It is painful to us who live there.
Therefore, my request to the department is that something - I do not know what - should be done to rectify this exploitative situation and abuse of our people in those areas. Mayors are fooling people. Sometimes they ask for donations in China. When they come back, they announce that they are going to deliver this and that in a particular area. Then one finds that what they had delivered was bought with the money that was donated - perhaps a sewing machine which was donated overseas. They then make out an invoice that shows that that machine was bought by the council, while the machine was not bought by them, but was a donation. These are some of the problems facing our province.
Therefore, we would be happy if the Minister and her department could come up with a solution. We will contact the Portfolio Committee on Public Works soon, because we should report on what we have found. We should also say what we think the solution would be, because … [Time expired.] [Applause.]]
Cllr H JENKINS (Salga): Chairperson, infrastructure is a critical part of developmental local government agenda. Developmental local government is, as such, local government committed to working with citizens and groups within the community to find sustainable ways to meet their social, economic and material needs, and to improve their quality of life.
Local government plays a central role in representing communities, protecting human rights and meeting basic needs. It must focus its efforts and resources on improving the quality of life of communities, especially those members and groups within communities that are most often marginalised or excluded, such as women, the vulnerable - and here we are talking about children, the elderly and the disabled - and the very poor.
It is therefore critical that local government, in fulfilling its role, address and support human development - the process of enlarging people’s choices and raising their level of wellbeing - within its processes of development and, in particular, infrastructure outlay among other things.
This then places poor people at the centre of development strategies. Approaches should ensure that poor people have the necessary capacity and access to participate in growth.
An enormous proportion of local government budgets are spent annually on addressing, mostly, the dire needs of rural and urban communities. Here, we are talking about poor communities who lack access to basic services. Thus, the thrust of infrastructure development and outlay is to ensure that while supporting the growing needs and sophistication of our economy, the majority of citizens have access to basic services.
Huge infrastructure backlogs are evident in our towns, villages and cities. The backlogs relate largely to roads, water, electricity, sanitation and housing, therefore pointing to the compelling need to sustain and continue investment in, and hence delivery of, infrastructure across the country.
Of significance in the delivery of infrastructure is the potential to address the socioeconomic challenges facing our communities. The most pressing challenges include the high incidence of unemployment, poverty and illiteracy.
While greater emphasis has been placed on community participation in decision-making processes, it is now necessary to widen and deepen community participation in implementation processes. Infrastructure development must be consistently geared towards increased local participation, as has been noted in several projects and Public Works programmes.
Community participation in the implementation process points to several anchors of sustainability, namely an increased community skills base; community maintenance; local ownership; higher tendencies to pay for services; stimulation of the local economy; job creation; improved income and livelihood; the mobilisation and enhancement of social capital; sustained community development; and diminished dependency on handouts.
Several vehicles for delivery and implementation of infrastructure in support of community development are notable, namely local procurement and targeted procurement, and emerging contractor development and support. In addition, the community-based Public Works initiatives of the national Department of Public Works are a case in point and relate to improved access to trade opportunities; directly productive initiatives; labour- saving schemes; social cohesion projects; and environmental protection.
Infrastructure delivery, in response to and linked with integrated development plans, has the potential to strengthen sustainable development. It is thus pivotal to ensure that community development priorities and preferences are the basis of the design, implementation and commissioning of infrastructure. Unless infrastructure is informed and/or responds to community priorities, as reflected in IDPs, sustainability is likely to be compromised.
Finally, sustainable development cannot be achieved without deliberate efforts to improve community development and livelihoods. Thus, infrastructure development must, in all instances, be geared towards supporting and advancing community development. Socioeconomic benefits deriving from and supported by integrated infrastructure development point to success in sustainable development. [Applause.]
Mr K D S DURR: Minister, what a welcome announcement you made and how very interestingly and well your speech was laid out. The announced initiative of the President, which is coming coincidentally with this debate, to use infrastructure development as a tool to improve the quality of life is a very welcome one indeed. It will be widely acclaimed and makes this debate more relevant. The initiative can increase efficiency, improve public health and promote rural development - indeed a virtuous circle.
The vital thing is that the greater the capital expenditure on capital products, the better the investment and the more the benefits cascade in an intergenerational and intercommunity way. I believe, however, that capital expenditure is too small a proportion of the total amount envisaged by the Government’s development programme.
Thus I trust the Goverment - and I was delighted to hear what the Minister had to say - will use this deserving initiative in the first instance to get rid of maintenance backlogs, using labour-intensive programmes where possible. I trust that as well as addressing new infrastructure, the initiative will be mobilised to repair and upgrade old existing infrastructure.
The Minister will know by way of example that some of our roads are more than 50 years old and need serious repair. Early intervention in road surfacing can cut road maintenance costs by half. The longer you wait to intervene in the process, the more the costs rise exponentially. One also needs to be careful not to go into competition with the private sector, but rather to harness it as a primary instrument of development. If we don’t, we may well see capacity problems developing and an inability to spend the sums available, or to spend wisely.
Wage rates also need to be kept at realistic levels on projects undertaken, otherwise people already employed quit their jobs and enrol in the state programme. One is then recycling jobs, not creating them. This happened in the past with the programme to clear alien vegetation in the Western Cape in which farmworkers resigned their jobs to enlist in the programme because the pay was better, but then couldn’t get their jobs back when the programme was over.
The programme outlined by the Government is a wiser application of state funds than a subsistence grant not linked to development. In the end, the health of the nation is linked to our ability to create wealth. To distribute wealth is relatively easy, but to create it is not so easy. A good infrastructure is a major contribution to the economic health of our country. The purpose of this programme is not only jobs, but self-respect and self-reliance, and those permanent skills that are learnt and stay with people forever.
We need to foster a culture of work in South Africa, not a culture of dependence. The savings and benefits for the state over time will be legion. In this whole field one has add-ons to existing projects, small local projects and large locomotive schemes that have large downstream cascading benefits. Past governments built Sasol, the national road system, the Eskom grid, the electrification of railways, large dams and so on. That is part of our history, and we know that this Government also has some large-scale locomotive projects in the pipeline.
By doing upgrading, long-term maintenance, infrastructure enhancement and add-ons, you get more bang for you buck and dramatic lifestyle improvements. A good example of this has been piping domestic water and domestic electricity from existing grids - from long-standing existing dams to existing housing. These new, comparatively low-cost linkages to existing infrastructure have resulted in an exponential improvement in quality of life in our country, for instance in health. They have also made the educational improvements possible.
The same swift benefits can be achieved in other fields - in roads, in agriculture and in agro-industrial business, which is a massive locomotive. The benefits of this kind of programme are, at best, labour-intensive and put no pressure on the balance of payments of the current account, because most of the raw materials used in this kind of project are usually home- grown. Furthermore, this promotes regionalism because projects, labour and raw materials can be sourced in the same areas.
This kind of programme also makes development possible in areas which are very undeveloped. In fact, the project should be constructed in this way to bring about maximum local benefit. The last thing is that the multipliers from this kind of project are enormous as the money cascades through the communities concerned.
Finally, the impact on confidence is large - and I am so glad the Minister mentioned this in her excellent speech - the confidence of local citizens and the confidence of outside investors who recognise the stability that these programmes bring if conducted wisely and cost-effectively.
An example I can think of - and I think the Minister can think of others - is the huge Makhatini Flats in Kwazulu-Natal, the almost unused water in the Pongola River Dam. By putting in the infrastructure, we can put tens of thousands of families on their own land who can plant crops that we need like sugar, soya beans, high-value imported spices and vegetables like tomatoes. This is, in other words, sustainable development that makes a contribution to job creation. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Madam Chairperson, hon Minister, permanent and special delegates here present, I would like to start by welcomimg the speech of the hon Minister, particularly her invitation to members to make inputs and advise the department regarding nonimperative, grossly or incorrectly located projects put up in our communities. I think that goes a long way in accommodating Dr Nel, who waited for six years before Die Beeld brought attention to a school that was not well put.
It is very unfortunate that we have members who do not do their constituency work, who just sit and wait for the press to alert them about something. This may lead to the possibility in which if one goes to heaven one may give a report that things are well located, while there was a school that was misplaced.
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: What is out of order, hon member? Mr Windvoël, you may sit down.
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I want to enquire whether it’s in order for a member to say that another member does not do his or her constituency work, without the member being here to defend himself or herself or to respond to that.
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: That was not a point of order. Carry on, Mr Windvoël.
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson. I think we are a Government which has introduced various strategies, one of them being the Integrated Rural Development Programme which ensures, as we plan for development, that we do so in a very integrated way. That’s why nowadays we speak of the IDPs. We no longer speak of the separate development policies of the past in which development took place in a very disjointed way.
I think it is in that spirit that we also encourage members to be proactive and take heed of the invitation of the Minister to advise and make inputs to the department in order to prevent such instances from taking place.
I won’t waste my time responding to what Mr Raju said, because 67,3% of his speech was on poems and some quotation on yawning or moaning minnies, which ÿ.ÿ.ÿ. [Laughter.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, continue with your speech.
Mr V V Z WINDVOЁL: Yes, I am proceeding with my speech, Madam Chairperson. It was very painful to hear what our special delegate from KwaZulu-Natal was saying - that there are people involved in blatant corruption which stifles development of the emerging entrepreneurs. I am also making my speech in the context of what the hon Minister said in her opening speech, in that we need to see those people go beyond the point of being emerging entrepreneurs. Having to pay whatever stipend, or R15 000 or so, will make them perpetual emerging entrepreneurs.
Poverty eradication and easy access to economic opportunities are indispensable for democratisation. Since 1994 our ANC-led Government has initiated various programmes that are at the centre of our poverty eradication programme. Accordingly, the Department of Public Works has become one of the torchbearers in our Reconstruction and Development Programme. Given its unique position as a catalyst of job creation, it has made huge strides in responding to the challenges of poverty brought to bear on especially rural communities through a lack of infrastructure, such as clinics, police stations, schools, water, dams and other projects.
Consequently, the department has adopted new policy frameworks to accelerate infrastructure development. Firstly, the potential of the construction industry has been unleashed in order to enable it to play a more meaningful role in social development and economic growth. This has been achieved through legislation and the strengthening of partnerships between Government and the private sector. Secondly, a Community-Based Public Works Programme has been established with a bias towards infrastructure creation.
This programme has delivered tangible benefits and job opportunities in South Africa’s poorest provinces - the Eastern Cape, the Limpopo province, KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and so on. Moreover, the social impact of this programme has positioned it as an integral part of the Integrated Rural Development Programme which is the largest beneficiary of poverty relief funds. Significantly, it has also involved provincial and local governments in the implementation of the programme. Of course there are other challenges which are faced in terms of how co-ordination is done. We must also appreciate the supportive role of traditional leaders in many areas. We do also know that there are other areas in which the relationship is not so rosy as others which we commend. Dr Radebe has already gone into detail in terms of isolating some of those cases, but we must put on record that not all traditional leaders are an obstacle to development.
The latter often make land available for infrastructure development. This ensures participation, co-operation and ownership by all stakeholders. This co-operation has ensured that the Ilima or Letsema campaign is community based.
One of the success stories we may highlight is that of directly productive assets, such as bakeries, vegetable gardens, market stalls, taxi ranks, etc, which have been put in place, and which serve as vehicles in pushing back the frontiers of poverty. Access to trade opportunities, such as rural access roads, has been built, and social cohesion instruments, such as schools and multipurpose community centres, have been put in place. Labour- saving projects, such as water and irrigation systems, have also been established. We have other projects dealing with environmental protection such as donga rehabilitation and storm water drains which have also been a success story.
In line with its mandate of accelerating the realisation of the socioeconomic objectives of Government, the CBPWP manages a host of special projects. One such project are the community production centres - CPCs. These are communal commercial centres for marketing and private-sector partnering, often utilising and adding value to the local factors of production such as land.
With the CPC projects, local communities are equipped to address the important issue of natural and household food security. At present, seven CPCs are operational in the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and the Limpopo province. However, as stated by the President, Comrade Thabo Mbeki, during the state of the nation address on 14 February this year, further improvement in the quality of life of our people requires that we take new measures to increase the volume and quality of our investment in the social infrastructure and that we improve our performance relative to the previous year.
In this regard, we welcome the announcement by the President of this country, South Africa, with regard to the allocation of additional resources to meet this obligation, and the launch of an Expanded Public Works Programme which the hon Minister has already alluded to. Similarly, we welcome the expansion of the network of the multipurpose community centres, because during our provincial visits communities were actually demanding that the MPCCs should serve as one-stop centres where the marginalised sections of our communities are actually interfacing with the Government. The announcement by the President on electronic communication, or the linking-up with Government, will also go a long way in terms of meeting that demand.
A lack of co-ordination and proper planning remains one of the debilitating factors regarding the programmes which this department is undertaking. Added to this is the lack of skills, rigid bureaucracy and discontent in some of our communities. It becomes incumbent upon us as the NCOP, as we do our oversight function, to check to what extent these factors are being addressed and managed.
Although we have some excellent examples of community, local government and provincial co-operation, there are still too many unnecessary impending factors. We are of the view that these factors the department, working together with our communities and ourselves as members of this House, would be in a position to overcome. At the same time, we should also guard against demands for new infrastructure when we are not optimally utilising the existing infrastructure.
I wish to conclude by applauding the department for amending the targeted affirmative procurement specifications to create a preference for women- owned business enterprises. As indicated in the hon Minister’s speech, currently over R100 million worth of construction projects are undertaken by women-owned enterprises.
We wish this department all the best in ensuring that through its programmes we push back the frontiers of poverty. I thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Chair, I must first of all thank all the members for the contributions they have made this afternoon. I must confess that, initially, when you said that I must debate this topic, I did grumble a little bit. I said: ``Why does the NCOP want me to exhaust what I’ll be saying in the budget speech?’’ Even as I was coming here today I was grumbling. [Laughter.]
I have definitely changed my mind. I now realise that without this debate, some of the aspects we needed to set right on the expanded programme, and some of the previous programmes, would not have happened as you had all expected.
Regarding certain areas of development, my worry is that if you as the national department, say at times that certain things are not happening the way they should, you sometimes meet with a sense of denial which does not pay dividends at the end of the day.
The infrastructure that we create - with regard to the question that was raised here - actually belongs to the communities. Even when we have handing-over ceremonies, we always make sure that the MEC responsible for community-related work at local government level is present. With some of the big projects, we discuss with whoever is responsible whether there will be money to maintain those projects.
For instance, with regard to some of the chambers that we have built for kings with halls attached, we actually said that each local government had to make sure not only that it provided staff, but that the halls themselves were well maintained.
We are also on record as saying that if a project, or whatever infrastructure has been built, doesn’t serve the purpose of that community, it can be converted into something else. I think those in KwaZulu-Natal must, together with us, think about what to do with the infrastructure at Ezingolweni. It is beautiful, but it is minimally utilised. I think that once we put our heads together we can find a better use for it by other members of the community than what the infrastructure was initially meant for.
I am happy that some members are beginning to approve of what we call a ``holistic system of planning’’. The President said that even in the working of Government we should work as clusters. This followed shortly on an example he had given in Parliament in which he said: Why would you build a school if there was going to be no road leading to that school; no communication; and no electricity? This is almost saying that Public Works, Minerals and Energy and so on and so forth come together and make sure that things happen. So thinking in cluster forms is also very helpful.
Another area in which working in clusters is beginning to pay dividends is with some of the poverty relief programmes that we have with Public Works and welfare. An example is of people and community gardens. You have a situation in which some of the community gardens are within a kilometre of each other. One has been set up by Public Works and the other by welfare. After two years, we don’t see a single person utilising these community gardens.
Hence, our approach of saying that if it is necessary to do so, let’s have community gardens. However, in the broader sense of creating economy for the people in the rural areas, they must learn to put their land together so that we deal with huge pieces of land which can produce stuff that can be well marketed. That is one of the things that really must happen.
We are taking a very strong line on some of the issues to do with construction, to do with the tenders that are awarded and to do with the shoddy work that is done. I have actually said that if there are people in construction who, despite a warning, continue producing shoddy work, those people must simply be blacklisted because they are not interested in giving value for the money that they get paid.
Regarding some of the issues that were raised by the special delegate from KwaZulu-Natal, we will have to take them up and see how we can deal with them. As far as Makhatini Flats is concerned, we did start a programme of putting the infrastructure in place, but the provincial MEC said he had bigger plans for the area. So all we could do was to put up the infrastructure for him, and then allow him to continue with the bigger plans. But I will talk to him about some of the sentiments that were expressed.
With regard to the issue of bakeries, I’m not sure whether this is happening in all the provinces but I know that in the Eastern Cape the NGOs are no longer going to be actively involved in providing food for some of the schools. We are going back to the old system in which communities themselves, that is the women and whoever within the community, provided the food. I was also happy to hear an announcement by one of the people, a lady, in an organisation of people in business in KwaZulu-Natal - I don’t know what you call it - in which she told us that one of the things they want to do is to make sure that they provide people with equipment for bakeries. This is something we are actually working on as Public Works in that it is useless saying that these women are going to provide the food for the schools. They might as well form small businesses themselves by being involved in an expanded scheme of bakeries. I think those are things that will need funding, almost as a matter of urgency.
I must thank all the hon members. I think that this was a very comfortable debate simply because we are beginning to understand what Public Works is all about. But you still confuse at times what we do nationally, what Transport does, and what the provinces do. I will continue to preach ``the gospel according to Stella’’, so that eventually, without saying we are drawing lines, you understand which area corrects certain things. I thank you, Chair. [Applause.] Debate concluded.
The Council adjourned at 16:02. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
FRIDAY, 21 FEBRUARY 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
The Speaker and the Chairperson:
(1) Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism:
(a) The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 19 February 2003 in terms
of Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bills as section 75
Bills:
(i) National Ports Authority Bill [B 5 - 2003] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
(ii) Public Protector Amendment Bill [B 6 - 2003] (National
Assembly - sec 75).
National Council of Provinces:
The Chairperson:
- Referrals to committees of tabled papers:
(1) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Security and Constitutional Affairs:
(a) Draft Regulations made in terms of the Recognition of
Customary Marriages Act, 1998 (Act No 120 of 1998).
(b) Government Notice No R 1299 published in Government
Gazette No 23943 dated 18 October 2002: Amendment of the
Magistrates' Courts Rules, made in terms of section 6 of the
Rules Board for Courts of Law Act, 1985 (Act No 107 of 1985).
(2) The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
Public Services:
Report and Financial Statements of the Thubelitsha Homes for 2001-
2002.
(3) The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
Land and Environmental Affairs:
(a) Government Notice No 1288 published in Government Gazette
No 23936 dated 11 October 2002: Extension of time for a
General Authorisation in terms of section 36 of the National
Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(b) Government Notice No 1347 published in Government Gazette
No 23993 dated 31 October 2002: Prohibition on the making of
fires in open air: Districts of Clanwilliam, Piketberg, Ceres,
Tulbagh, Worcester, Paarl, Stellenbosch, Strand and Somerset
West, made in terms of the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of
1984).
(c) Government Notice No 1348 published in Government Gazette
No 23993 dated 31 October 2002: Prohibition on the making of
fires in open air: Districts of Swellendam and Montagu, made
in terms of the Forest Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).
(d) Government Notice No 1349 published in Government Gazette
No 23993 dated 31 October 2002: Prohibition on the making of
fires in open air: Western Cape, made in terms of the Forest
Act, 1984 (Act No 122 of 1984).
(e) Government Notice No 1359 published in Government Gazette
No 24002 dated 8 November 2002: Transformation of the Mkuze
Falls Irrigation Board, Division Ngotshe, Province of KwaZulu-
Natal, into the Mkuze Falls Water User Association, Water
Management Area Number 6, Province of KwaZulu-Natal, made in
terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(f) Government Notice No 1395 published in Government Gazette
No 24042 dated 15 November 2002: Determining of an interest
rate, in terms of section 59(3)(a) of the National Water Act,
1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(g) Government Notice No 1439 published in Government Gazette
No 24060 dated 11 November 2002: Release of land from the
Dukuduku State Forest, in terms of section 50(3) of the
National Forests Act, 1998 (Act No 84 of 1998).
(h) Government Notice No 1441 published in Government Gazette
No 24065 dated 22 November 2002: Establishment of the
Rondebosch River Water User Association, Division Plettenberg
Bay in the Province of the Western Cape, Water Management Area
Number 16, made in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act
No 36 of 1998).
(i) Government Notice No 1481 published in Government Gazette
No 24093 dated 29 November 2002: Establishment of the Sand-Vet
Water User Association, Districts of Senekal, Winburg,
Ventersburg, Virginia, Welkom, Wesselsbron, Hoopstad,
Theunissen and Bultfontein, Water Management Area Number 9,
Free State Province, made in terms of the National Water Act,
1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(j) Government Notice No 1519 published in Government Gazette
No 24116 dated 6 December 2002: Transformation of the Vaal
Irrigation Board, Districts of Kimberley and Herbert, Northern
Cape Province, into the Orange Vaal Water User Association,
Water Management Area Number 14, Northern Cape Province, made
in terms of the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(k) Government Notice No 2 published in Government Gazette No
24215 dated 3 January 2003: Notice in terms of section 50(3)
of the National Forests Act, 1998 (Act No 84 of 1998), release
of part of the Hangklip Plantation which is no longer required
for forestry, made in terms of the Act.
(l) Government Notice No 3 published in Government Gazette No
24215 dated 3 January 2003: Notice in terms of section 50(3)
of the National Forests Act, 1998 (Act No 84 of 1998), release
of Blyde, George, Timbadola, Wemmershoek and Stutterheim
sawmills as state forests, made in terms of the Act.
(m) Government Notice No 84 published in Government Gazette No
23717 dated 17 January 2003: Board of Bloem Water: Extension
of service area, made in terms of the Water Services Act, 1997
(Act No 108 of 1997).
(n) Government Notice No 103 published in Government Gazette
No 24256 dated 17 January 2003: Proposal for the Establishment
of the Inkomati Catchment Management Area, Province of
Mpumalanga, Inkomati Water Management Area, made in terms of
the National Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(o) Government Notice No 106 published in Government Gazette
No 24260 dated 17 January 2003: Invitation to submit written
comments on proposed list of protected tree species under the
National Forests Act, 1998 (Act No 84 of 1998).
(p) Government Notice No 124 published in Government Gazette
No 24264 dated 24 January 2003: Establishment of the
Boschkloof Irrigation Scheme Water User Association,
Magisterial District of Sekhukhune, Province of Limpopo, Water
Management Area Number 4, made in terms of the National Water
Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
(q) Government Notice No 125 published in Government Gazette
No 24264 dated 24 January 2003: Transformation of the
Worcester East Major, Hex River, Nuy River, Overhex, Nonna,
Aan De Doorns and Nooitgedacht Irrigation Boards, Division of
Worcester, Province of Western Cape, into the Worcester East
Water User Association, Water Management Area Number 18,
Province of the Western Cape, made in terms of the National
Water Act, 1998 (Act No 36 of 1998).
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Finance:
(a) Resolutions of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts for
2002 and replies thereto obtained by the National Treasury -
Twenty-fourth and Twenty-fifth reports, 2002.
(b) Government Notice No 104 published in Government Gazette No
24257 dated 14 January 2003: Designation of an institution of
which the activities do not fall within the meaning of "The
Business of a Bank" ("Ithala Development Finance Corporation
Limited" formerly known as "KwaZulu Finance & Investment
Corporation Limited"), made in terms of the Banks Act, 1990 (Act
No 94 of 1990).
(c) Government Notice No 33 published in Government Gazette No 24264
dated 24 January 2003: Proposed amendment of Pension Fund
Regulations, made in terms of the Pension Funds Act, 1956 (Act No
24 of 1956).
TUESDAY, 25 FEBRUARY 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
The Speaker and the Chairperson:
- Translations of Bills submitted:
(1) The Minister for Safety and Security:
Wetsontwerp op Springstof [W 43 - 2002] (National Assembly -
sec 75)
This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the Explosives
Bill [B 43 - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75).
National Council of Provinces:
The Chairperson:
- Messages from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council:
(1) Bills passed by National Assembly on 25 February 2003 and
transmitted for concurrence:
(i) Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Third
Amendment Bill [B 33B - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 74).
(ii) Constitution of the Republic of South Africa Fourth
Amendment Bill [B 69B - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 74).
The Bills have been referred to the Select Committee on Security
and Constitutional Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Public Enterprises:
Report and Financial Statements of the South African Forestry Company
Limited (SAFCOL) for the year ended 30 June 2002.
National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Chairperson:
The following members have been appointed to the Board of South African
National Parks for the period 1 January 2003 to 31 December 2003:
Ms Charmaine Phillida Klein
Mr Bernard Mnakwazo Kwaaiman
Mr Clive Walker
Mr Mogomotsi Edward Mokgatlhe
Mr Mduduzi Too-Good Mchunu
Mr Meshack Siboshwa Nkosi
Mr Mokgoko Gabriel Molefe
Ms Sheila Vrahimis
Mr Zakhele Johannes Sithole
Mr John Samuel
Mr Mafison Murphy Morobe (Chairperson)
Ms Phindile Nzimande
Mr Tamsanqa Sokutu
Dr Tanya Abrahamse
Ms Tshepo Sophia Khumbane
Ms Vuyokazi Mbelani
Prof Willem Frederik van Riet
Dr Zarina Patel
Note: In terms of section 8(2) of the National Parks Act, 1976 (Act No
57 of 1976), if, within thirty days after the name of any person has
been tabled under the provisions of subsection (1), Parliament passes
resolutions disapproving of the appointment of that person as a member
of the board, his or her appointment shall be cancelled.
Referred to the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs for
consideration and report.