National Council of Provinces - 15 May 2003
THURSDAY, 15 MAY 2003 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:05.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr K D S DURR: Chairperson, at the next sitting of this House I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) notes that the -
(a) Minister of Health, Dr Manto Tshabalala-Msimang, has failed to
endorse a general antiretroviral treatment plan for HIV/Aids
sufferers in the face of a Treasury and Health department
report, stating that providing these drugs is the most cost-
effective way of combating the Aids pandemic;
(b) constant ducking and diving of the Health Minister continues
while the litany of disaster of HIV and Aids continues to grow;
(c) Minister's tenure of office has assumed the proportions of a
national disaster and is an international embarrassment to our
country;
(2) appeals to the Cabinet to overrule this Minister and to accept and implement the report; and
(3) calls upon the President to replace her forthwith with someone more sensitive and more capable.
Ms E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I wish to move at the next sitting of the Council:
That the Council -
(1) supports and embraces the importance and significance of today, the occasion of the 9th anniversary of the United Nations International Family Day, which is a prelude to United Nations International Year of the Family, marking the 10th anniversary next year;
(2) acknowledges and pays tribute to those thousands of people and family members gathered in Soshanguve, at the Boikhutsong (Block T) Community Hall today to celebrate this event and those who helped to organise the event, namely the Department of Social Development, the Family and Marriage Association of SA, Miss South Africa and Soul City;
(3) on this day, heeds the appeal by the Minister for all of us to strengthen family bonds as one of the key challenges in the fight against poverty, HIV/Aids and other social ills; and
(4) acknowledges that the family is the bedrock on which society is built and recognises that in order for good values to develop, we all need to work together in partnership as communities, civil society, business, labour and NGOs to make sure that we strengthen families for a better life for all our people but especially our children.
A MODERN-DAY WOLRAAD WOLTEMADE
(Draft Resolution)
Dr E A CONROY: Voorsitter, ek stel graag ‘n voorstel sonder kennisgewing: Dat die Raad -
(1) sy innige waardering en dank uitspreek teenoor mnr Len Slabbert, ‘n hedendaagse Wolraad Woltemade, vir die heldedaad wat hy met sy medewerkers onder tragiese omstandighede verrig het deur 8 mense tydens die afgryslike ramp by die Saulspoortdam van ‘n gewisse watergraf te red;
(2) met waardering erkenning gee aan die navolgenswaardige voorbeeld wat hy met dié daad aan ons almal gestel het dat daar nie wit of swart of bruin mense in Suid-Afrika is nie, maar dat ons almal net medemense van mekaar is wat onderlinge medemenslikheid, deernis en naasteliefde verdien; en
(3) voorts erkenning gee aan die klein maar só belangrike rol wat sy daad en optrede gespeel het, en in die toekoms nog sal speel, in die proses om ons as mede-Afrikane steeds nader aan mekaar te bring en ons goddelike plig van naasteliefde teenoor mekaar na te kom. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)
[Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) expresses its deepest appreciation and gratitude towards Mr Len Slabbert, a modern day Wolraad Woltemade, for the heroic deed he performed with his co-workers under tragic circumstances by saving eight people from a certain watery grave during the horrific disaster at the Saulspoort Dam;
(2) acknowledges with appreciation the example that he has set for all of us with this deed, one worthy of imitation, showing that there are not white or black or brown people in South Africa, but that we are all simply fellow human beings who deserve mutual common humanity, compassion and neighbourly love; and
(3) further acknowledges this small but very important role that his deed and actions played, and will play in future, in the process of bringing us even closer to one another as fellow Africans and complying with our divine duty of neighbourly love towards one another.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
COMMEMORATIVE SITE AND RESTING PLACE OF SEVEN KINGS
(Draft Resolution)
Ms J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:
Ukuthi lo mKhandlu -
(1) uhalalisela ukwembulwa kwesikhumbuzo sendawo okulele kuyo amakhosi ayisikhombisa ohlanga lwesizwe samaZulu eMakhosini Valley, ngasoLundi, KwaZulu-Natali; (2) uncoma ubuhle bale ndawo ehlotshiswe ngamagugu esizwe futhi ezobuye ibe negalelo kwezomnotho ngokuheha izivakashi;
(3) utusa iqhaza elizolethwa ubuhle bale ndawo ekuthuthukiseni ulwazi kubafundi abazohambela kuyo, ikakhulu labo abafunda ngezomlando;
(4) uhalalisela umphakathi wale ndawo ngentuthuko namathuba omsebenzi azovuleka kule ndawo okumanje nje isiqashe ngokugcwele abantu abangama-72 futhi isazoqhubeka iqashe nabanye;
(5) uhalalisela iSilo samaZulu, iNgonyama uGoodwill Zwelithini kaBhekuzulu ovule lesi sizinda esibaluleke kangaka esaziwa ngeMakhosini-Ophathe Heritage Park ngomhla ka-3 Meyi 2003; futhi
(6) uphinde uhalalisele iNkosi M G Buthelezi, umNtwana waKwaphindangene nongundunankulu kaZulu owaba yisikhulumi sosuku kulo mcimbi obaluleke kangaka emagugwini nasemnothweni wesizwe sonkana. (Translation of isiZulu draft resolution follows.)
[That the Council -
(1) applauds the establishment of the commemorative site on the final resting place of seven kings of the Zulu nation at Makhosini Valley, near Ulundi, in KwaZulu-Natal;
(2) commends the beauty of this site which is decorated with artefacts of the nation, and which will also contribute to the economy by attracting visitors;
(3) expresses its gratitude for the role that will be played by the beauty of this site in developing the knowledge of students who will visit it, particularly history students;
(4) congratulates the community of this area for the upliftment and job opportunities that will be created through this site, which already has 72 fully employed people and will employ more people;
(5) congratulates the King of the Zulu nation, His Majesty Goodwill Zwelithini kaBhekuzulu, who opened this very important site, which is known as Makhosini-Ophathe Heritage Park, on 3 May 2003; and
(6) also congratulates iNkosi M G Buthelezi, Prince of Kwaphindangene, who was the main speaker during that ceremony of unequalled importance to the heritage and economy of the whole nation.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
PHASING OUT OF COMMANDO SYSTEM
(Draft Resolution)
Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, ek stel voor sonder kennisgewing: Dat die Raad -
(1) kennis neem dat, na aanleiding van die President se aankondiging in sy amptelike Openingsrede dat aandag geskenk gaan word aan die uitfasering van die SANW-kommandostelsel en die skep van ‘n nuwe stelsel, daar groot kommer bestaan en die mening uitgespreek is dat ‘n sekuriteitsvakuum in landelike gebiede voorkom moet word;
(2) voorts kennis neem dat die Nuwe NP -
(a) ná omvattende navorsing en oorlegpleging, 'n beleidsvoorstel
saamgestel en voorgelê het aan die Minister van Veiligheid en
Sekuriteit asook die Minister van Verdediging;
(b) die kundigheid van 'n prominente lid van die Suid-Afrikaanse
Nasionale Weermag, brig-genl John de la Monte, gebruik het om
die beleid saam te stel;
(c) se voorstel vir 'n plaaslike polisiemag, in die lig van die
groot aantal plaasmoorde, die behoefte aan 'n doeltreffende
landelike beveiligheidsplan aanpak;
(d) glo dat die skep van 'n Suid-Afrikaanse plaaslike polisiemag 'n
logiese, effektiewe en bekostigbare alternatief vir die huidige
kommandostelsel is, dat alle plaaslike polisie-eenhede, hetsy
voltyds of deeltyds, spesifiek opgelei moet word vir hulle
dubbele rol en dat sekere eenhede toegerus en opgelei moet word
vir buite-area-beskermingswerk in oorlogstyd; en
(3) die hoop uitspreek dat die beleidsvoorstel vir ‘n plaaslike polisiemag sal bydra tot ‘n konstruktiewe debat oor die transformasie van die kommando’s. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)
[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes that, following the President’s announcement in his official Opening Address that attention is to be given to phasing out the SANDF commando system and creating a new system, great concern exists and that the opinion has been expressed that a security vacuum in rural areas must be avoided;
(2) further notes that -
(a) after comprehensive research and consultation, the New NP has
compiled a policy proposal and submitted it to the Minister of
Safety and Security and the Minister of Defence;
(b) the New NP made use of the expertise of a prominent member of
the SA National Defence Force, Brig-Gen John de la Monte, to
compile the policy;
(c) in the light of the large number of farm murders, the New NP's
proposal for a constabulary addresses the need for an effective
rural safety plan;
(d) the New NP believes that the creation of a South African
constabulary is a logical, effective and affordable alternative
to the current commando system, that all constabulary units, be
they full-time or part-time, must be specifically trained for
their dual role and that certain units must be equipped and
trained for protective work outside their usual scope in times
of war; and
(3) expresses the hope that the policy proposal for a constabulary will contribute towards a constructive debate on the transformation of the commandos.]
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SUICIDE BOMBINGS IN RIYADH
(Draft Resolution)
Mr D M KGWARE: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes the horrific act of triple suicide bombings carried out against the citizens of Riyadh by 15 suicide bombers;
(2) regrets the loss of more innocent lives claimed by the unspeakable acts of international terrorism;
(3) believes that all nations should reaffirm the commitment to fight terror by ensuring co-ordinated efforts;
(4) expresses its deepest condolences to the people of Saudi Arabia; and
(5) welcomes the Saudi kingdom’s resolve to mete out appropriate punishment to the perpetrators.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
MASSACRE IN THE DRC
(Draft Resolution)
Mr Z S KOLWENI: Chairperson, I rise to move a motion without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes with concern the massacre in the DRC that claimed the lives of a number of innocent people;
(2) acknowledges the detrimental effect this massacre can have on the progress that has been made in resolving the DRC conflict peacefully;
(3) believes this tragedy should not be allowed to derail our commitment to the peaceful and speedy resolution of conflict in the DRC; and
(4) confirms its commitment to continue to lend support to the DRC and other countries on the continent afflicted by internal strife to build and strengthen dialogue around the ongoing process of reconciliation, nation building and reconstruction.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
APPOINTMENT OF MS J L KGOALI AS CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, it is an honour and privilege, on behalf of the Chairperson of the NCOP, to nominate Ms Joyce Kgoali as Chairperson of the Council. We believe that Ms Kgoali is a very capable, able and competent person and that her experience as a provincial Whip and as a member familiar with this House, would enable her to discharge her responsibilities as Chairperson of Committees of this Council in a very responsible, effective and efficient manner. We wish her well. [Applause.]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I am not sure, Chief Whip. You said you nominated her as Chairperson of the NCOP.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: … of Committees. I nominate her as Chairperson of Committees in the NCOP. We certainly do not want a coup in the absence of the Chairperson.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I thought as much. That is why I was correcting that. Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
APPROPRIATION BILL
(Policy debate)
Vote No 19 - Social Development:
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Mr Chairperson, Deputy Chairperson, hon members, MECs, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, this Budget Vote debate of ours today takes place against the backdrop of critical decisions that were taken during the World Summit on Sustainable Development in Johannesburg last year, to halve the world’s poor by the year 2015. It also takes place when we are all preparing for the Growth and Development Summit, which is to take place within three weeks in this country.
In my Budget Vote speech to the National Assembly this year we pledged to accelerate the pace of delivery of social development programmes and grants, whilst empowering millions of our poor right through the country. Indeed, the vulnerable of our society and particularly children, older persons, people with disabilities, people infected with and affected by HIV/Aids and other diseases do need that intervention. These vulnerable sectors of our population are, more than ever before, beginning to feel that the Government is indeed taking bold steps to make them masters of their own destiny. I did also reiterate that children must come first in all that we do.
Today we also celebrate the 9th anniversary of the International Day of the Family. This prelude to the 10th anniversary will be celebrated across the world next year as the International Year of the Family. This should mark the beginning of our journey to realise social integration through strengthened family units and accompanying social infrastructure.
As I speak to you today, hundreds of families are gathered in Soshanguve, in the City of Tshwane, and many other parts of South Africa. They gather to reaffirm our commitment to ensuring that the family and vulnerable groups are placed at the centre of development strategies in our programmes. Many families are under pressure to cope with the impact of poverty, HIV/Aids, unemployment and other social ills, and these have a devastating impact on the most vulnerable members of our society, especially children. In this regard it is the duty of the Government in general and our department in particular, as well as our society, to reach out and assist. It is from this perspective that our theme today and this year is ``Building a social contract to strengthen families and communities for a better life for our children’’.
This approach is at the centre of the moral regeneration of our society and is the premise of addressing many of the social challenges confronting our society, including those currently confronting children themselves.
Strengthening of organs of civil society is important for accelerated but sustained development. We will therefore endeavour to work more closely with nongovernmental organisations to meet the needs of our people. This will be complimented by the employment of a cadre of community development workers who will be deployed to work directly with the communities after training.
It is our belief that strong families are a foundation for strong communities and strong communities are a foundation for stronger nations, and stronger nations are nations that will be fit for children and their development. We’ll therefore intensify our programmes to support the family in our communities.
I take this opportunity to thank the members of this House who have travelled the journey from welfare to social development with us. I also thank the community members and civil society organisations that have maintained us on the path of ensuring that children are put first in all that we do as a country.
Following the presidential address in February this year, I’m pleased to announce that an additional 1 million children below the age of nine will now be able to access social grants. The grant will be extended to those between the ages of nine and ten in the year 2004. We will therefore progressively over the next three years increase the coverage to children up to the age of fourteen. I want to say that we aim at ensuring that each and every child gets a grant, and a child to us is everybody under the age of eighteen. [Applause.]
I must, however, express my concern that not all children who should be receiving grants do indeed receive them. This is true for all grant types targeting children, including the foster care and care dependency grants, which account for only just over 180 000 of the 5,6 million grant recipients, which is far from the targeted numbers.
Staff shortages, inadequate infrastructure, inappropriate skills and lack of access to registration centres are some of the identified critical problems. To overcome these concerns we have begun our work with provinces, local authorities and the Departments of Education, Health and Home Affairs and have intensified the campaign to reach out to all qualifying beneficiaries. Particular attention is being given to the Eastern Cape. A special task team has been established to assist the province. I am happy to announce that considerable progress is being made to benefit the poorest of the poor, specifically in that province.
We have also extended our arm to civil society organisations that have assisted us in reaching rural areas and vulnerable groups. In the build-up to the National Assembly Budget Vote I challenged trade unions to assist us in these efforts. I’m pleased to announce that owing to meetings with many unions, including Nehawu, we are at the dawn of a revolutionary partnership to extend and improve service delivery to the poor and vulnerable communities through the use of union members as well as retired persons, members and volunteers.
Indications in our database show that nearly 2 million older people receive old age grants. This translates to about 98% of those eligible for the state old age grant. Thus our efforts, which included grant increases above the inflation rates over the years, have served to intensify our responses to reducing the pain and ongoing suffering of our people, especially older persons and people with disabilities.
The challenge that remains is to ensure dignified and speedy treatment of these groups and other grant beneficiaries during the processing and payment of grants. In this regard we have developed the norms and standards. These involve setting up project management offices and training more than 2 000 officials in social security administration and customer care.
Continuous improvement of our services is of paramount importance and this cannot be achieved with the current limited infrastructure, particularly the information management technology at our disposal. We have therefore extended our arms to seek strategic partners who will be able to assist us in the replacement of the archaic SOCPEN system so as to improve the provision of social assistance.
The provision of social assistance grants is a very significant poverty alleviation programme of Government. For this purpose we require a different institutional arrangement that focuses on this initiative. To this end, as you may be aware, Cabinet has decided to establish the National Social Security Agency. The agency would be a specialist and focused institution for the management, administration and payment of social grants.
It is expected that the agency’s entry will simplify social development budgets to the provinces. We are still experiencing unacceptable conditions of long queues, deaths during payouts and an environment where there are loan sharks, which puts our old citizens in further vulnerability while they have to travel and walk long distances to get their grants. I must say that we need to work even harder with the provinces to ensure that this comes to a stop, so that we can restore the dignity of our elderly citizens.
Co-operative governance is therefore a critical success factor with regard to improving service delivery. As we continue to work with the provinces in the spirit of co-operative governance, with the aim of extending our service, we are beginning to see the urgent need to also work closely with local government. Collaboration with local government ought to ensure quick, easy, effective and efficient access to services by the citizens.
May I point out very, very clearly that the areas with the most problems are mainly the former Bantustan areas. It is not only the Eastern Cape, as such; basically all of them have the same problem.
One of the most critical areas of our work this year will be to consolidate our approach to a comprehensive social security system for finalisation in the Cabinet lekgotla this year. It is important to indicate that this approach is more than just awarding social grants; it constitutes - I want to stress that - a package of services to those at risk or facing certain contingencies.
The Social Cluster is working towards consolidating the various elements of our comprehensive social security system for finalisation by Cabinet. And I would really appeal to members of this House to study that report very, very well. It is not only about the basic income grant. It is a comprehensive approach that touches almost all those grants that are being given by Government as a whole. It is not easy to just give everybody R100 and they go away. There are thousands of people who need that and many other services.
The impact of HIV/Aids and poverty and social exclusion on our communities, and children in particular, is devastating. In many cases children whose parents or care-givers have died of HIV/Aids are left to care for themselves and their siblings. Consequently, these children cannot attend school or participate in recreational activities. Many of the communities continue to shun and marginalise families affected by the pandemic.
This year the department has been allocated R65,9 million to accelerate the expansion of the home-based and community-based care programmes in partnership with NGOs, community-based organisations and faith-based organisations. In the past we supported more than 300 centres which are targeting over 75 000 children and families to date. Since many of the communities continue to shun and marginalise families affected by the epidemic, the department has set aside a substantial amount of its budget to cater for drop-in centres and soup kitchens, which will be run by provincial departments in co-operation with community organisations in order to care for children and those who are very, very frail.
To enhance our understanding and efficacies of HIV/Aids, our department has conducted a number of research studies in this area. We have also collaborated with other organisations, including the Department of Health and Statistics SA. Simultaneously, we have to continue building the capacity of the Government, NGOs, CBOs and FBOs to understand these research findings and use them in planning their intervention and services. In the past two years we have trained more than 1 500 Government planners through the Primary HIV/Aids capacity- building course. This course will be expanded to also include civil society.
In the National Assembly Budget Vote this year I asserted that our attack on poverty is underpinned by our desire to empower our people in order to extricate themselves from poverty. To this end, my department and the Government as a whole have been administering over R563 million since 1997, which supports over 3 600 community-based projects. These projects seek to rebuild and strengthen the community asset base, whilst ensuring that community-level social infrastructure is enhanced, vulnerable groups are targeted and food insecurity is addressed.
In the next financial year, which marks the final year of the Poverty Relief Programme in its current form, the Department of Social Development will receive and will be managing R71 million. This will be used to strengthen the existing poverty relief projects and link them with other resources and agents of development.
Despite the significant gains we have made, there are still challenges, both at programme and project levels. One of these is the complete isolation and exclusion of communities from assets and institutions such as land, banks, suppliers of certain services, markets and skills development agents. These challenges require that we increase the number of community development workers and improve their skills base. The challenges confronting the projects themselves may require greater flexibility in our financing and development policies.
In order to mitigate the food crisis confronting millions of our people in the country and subregion, the Government has allocated over R400 million for each of the next three years, starting from 1 April 2003, in the form of the integrated food nutrition programme. The programme is led by the hon Minister of Agriculture, Thoko Didiza, and will provide relief measures to vulnerable groups that cannot afford adequate and nutritious food owing to poverty and escalating food prices. In order to support this programme my department has employed and seconded 36 officers to all the provinces.
The main beneficiaries of this programme will be children, the granny and female-headed households and the households of those affected by and infected with HIV/Aids. Essentially the programme is initially focusing on social facilitation and the distribution of food parcels to the most vulnerable, in co-operation with the provincial departments, the Independent Development Trust, the National Development Agency and a range of relief organisations. In future the provision of food parcels will be complemented by the support of food production clusters and initiatives in impoverished communities and households. I take this opportunity thank you for, and seek your ongoing support in, delivering this important programme. I further ask for your assistance in order to develop the programme in such a manner that it can be a vantage point for community empowerment and stimulation of local economy. But more importantly, we appeal to you to assist us in targeting those families and those households that are entitled to this support.
Transformation of the legislative framework remains an important part in ensuring that democracy in our country has real meaning to the vulnerable. To this end, I am pleased to announce that, with the assistance of hon members on the portfolio and select committees, the following Bills are being worked on and are close to completion: firstly, the Comprehensive Child Care Bill, that seeks to provide holistic protection to children in line with the socioeconomic rights enshrined in our Constitution; secondly, the Social Security Agency Bill, that has as its object the establishment of a national security agency that will be a specialist institution for the management and administration of social assistance grants; thirdly, the Social Assistance Bill, that will provide for a national legislative framework to provide for the rendering of social assistance and social relief of distress to persons in line with the constitutional requirements of equal and equitable access; the Older Persons Bill, which seeks to protect and secure the dignity of older persons; and the National Development Agency Amendment Act, which has formally transferred the National Development Agency to my department. And the cumulative effect of this and the above pieces of legislation will be to lay the basis for strengthened families, communities and civil society for a better life for all, especially children.
Allocations to the provincial Social Development budgets have increased significantly over the Medium Term Expenditure Framework period, from R19,4 billion in 1999-00 to R31,2 billion in the year 2002-03. This is about one expression of our commitment to social development and poverty eradication.
I take this opportunity once again to thank all the members who assisted us to communicate and publicise social grants and our other services. I say to them all, Nangomso! Without your efforts we would not have reached such growth levels.
Whilst beneficiary numbers have almost doubled over the past five years, the department’s staff numbers have not increased. We cannot deliver on our mandate unless we have the right numbers and skills at the points of delivery. With that I say, thank you. [Applause.]
Ms L JACOBUS: Thank you, Deputy Chairperson. Ministers, MECs, special delegates and members, I firstly want to take this opportunity to congratulate our new Chairperson of Committees on her appointment. She’s been very well aware of all the difficulties we’ve been facing and I’m sure she’ll be able to assist us in trying to resolve many of them. It is, once more, a privilege for me to rise in support of Vote No 19 - Social Development.
One of the central themes of President Thabo Mbeki’s opening address to Parliament in February this year was once again the theme of pushing back the frontiers of poverty. This is an indication that poverty alleviation and its ultimate eradication is amongst the top priorities of our Government and has been since 1994.
For those members who might not know, the President of the country is also the President of the African National Congress. On the occasion of the 91st anniversary of the ANC on 8 January of this year, I want to quote what the President said:
Central to our strategic goal is the realisation of the objective of the eradication of poverty. With the eradication of poverty as our urgent task we must at the same time advance continuously towards the social transformation of our country through a concerted programme for reconstruction and development.
Over the past years the mandate of the Department of Social Development has been expanding, as the Minister has said, to include playing a bigger role in the establishment of income-generating opportunities for the poor, the driving of short-term food relief and caring for those infected and affected by HIV and Aids to the support of home-based care programmes. Therefore, in the context of the high prevalence of poverty country-wide, these areas of support are critical to the protection of the most vulnerable in our society.
The introduction of the child support grant in 1997 and the further extension of the age limitation from 7 to 14 years from April this year means that the safety net has been extended considerably. This should be recognised as one of the major achievements of this democratic Government to date. This extension of the safety net brings the total number of social grant beneficiaries to 5,6 million in March this year. The majority, over 2,5 million, are the recipients of the child support grant.
It is further reflected in Table 6.3 of the Intergovernmental Fiscal Review where the provincial expenditure on social grants are tabulated. Limpopo tops the list with 89,1%, followed by the Eastern Cape and Mpumalanga with 88,3% and 81,0% respectively for the current financial year. An average of 85,8% of provincial budgets are allocated and will be spent on the social grants for this year, and of course this average will increase over the medium-term period. With the levels of poverty increasing continuously, the growth in numbers of beneficiaries is set to accelerate further in the coming years with an estimated 25,8% rise by 2005-06.
However, there is one big challenge that we need to look at, and I have discussed this with the Minister as well. Those children who have been orphaned, who are under the age of 18 and who cannot actually apply in their own capacity for anyone of the social assistance grants, are the children that fall outside the safety nets. These are the children who are mostly found on the street corners, and because they are hungry they are then vulnerable to a whole range of abuse and exploitation.
The widened safety net called for the most efficient service delivery in the administration of these grants. In various provinces unfortunately this still remains an area of weakness. I’m therefore glad to note Cabinet’s approval in principle of the establishment of a national public entity to take over the function of grant administration and delivery. I believe this will in a big way strengthen the department’s capacity to support and monitor the delivery of social grants.
I do not want to dwell much on the rands and cents of the budget at this point. I think our special delegates and our MECs who are here will probably go into that in detail and I think our colleagues in the National Assembly have done so adequately as well.
As part of our preparation for this debate we had a day-long interaction on Tuesday with various provinces focusing on provincial priorities, spending patterns and challenges. Unfortunately not all provinces could attend, but we had submissions from the Eastern Cape, we had submissions from the Western Cape, Limpopo, North West and Mpumalanga. Amongst the most common priority areas that emerged were, firstly, poverty alleviation; secondly, access to social security; and, thirdly, the issue of service delivery.
Spending patterns by and large follow these priorities. However, it is the challenge that I want to focus on - the challenges that came out of that day-long interaction - and largely there are three main challenges that came to the fore. Firstly, the issue of human resource capacity; secondly, interdepartmental collaboration; and, thirdly, fraudulent access to social security.
With regard to human resource capacity, I want to mention that I myself, as a woman, am in a position of responsibility towards the voters of this country. I can tell you that I would not be able to perform to the best of my ability if I did not have the human resource capacity both at work and at home. I think all of us can attest to that. We would not be seated here if we did not have the necessary support around us. The same could be said for Government and in particular the Department of Social Development. In order for us to deliver on our commitments, we need to have warm bodies or person power to do so.
According to national norms and standards, the ratio of social worker to population is said to be 1:5 000. In the Eastern Cape the ratio is presently 1: 13 000. The province currently operates on 49% of its total human resource capacity. Mpumalanga indicated that they have 1 000 vacancies in their department at the moment. The only deduction one can make from these statistics is that service delivery has been dealt a serious blow. If one notes that Mpumalanga and the Eastern Cape are among the poorest provinces, with vast rural areas, then what are we saying about pushing back the frontiers of poverty, particularly for the most vulnerable in our society?
The Intergovernmental Fiscal Review highlights the fact that poorer provinces have a higher distribution of pensioners, disabled persons and young children. These are also the categories of people who are mostly dependent on social security and other services which the department renders. Mr Minister, the notion of a leaner Public Service might, in this instance, not hold water. Looking at the task and responsibility at hand, I firmly believe that there should not be a blanket application of this notion. It would be a sad day if we went to the polls next year, 10 years into our democracy, and our grandparents, the disabled and children could not access benefits because departments did not have warm bodies or the person power to process applications timeously.
On interdepartmental collaboration, I know that this is not a debate on Home Affairs, but unfortunately Home Affairs features very prominently when it comes to the work that Social Development does. Particularly social security grants depend largely on delivery from Home Affairs in terms of ID’s and birth certificates. This is one department that none of us can escape. It governs our lives from the day that we enter into this world up to the day that we depart from this world. If those in need do not have the necessary documentation like ID’s and birth certificates they would not be able to access the services available from Government departments and especially Social Development. Even if the Minister has all the resources and capacity to deliver on his Constitutional mandate, we will not be able to do so as citizens of this country if we cannot positively identify ourselves. Here, once again, the issue of human resources comes into play.
I was unofficially informed that there are in the region of 1 800 vacant posts in the Department of Home Affairs. This department is unfortunately also jokingly referred to as the Department of Actors, or Hollywood, as it is called. Many of the middle and senior management positions are acting personnel. The end result of this is that no one can really be held accountable for any actions taken or not taken. We need to ask ourselves the question: Who suffers? The categories of people we have identified as the most vulnerable are the ones who suffer, namely the elderly, the disabled, women and children. During our visits last year to the Eastern Cape and this year to the North West, all our colleagues were present there. All the questions that were posed were largely posed to the Department of Home Affairs because people could not access the services from Social Development. They did not have the relevant documentation. One would actually urge the Minister to have a sit-down, not over a cup of tea but probably a pot of tea, to look at this matter. [Interjections.]
The third challenge is fraudulent access to social security. Through our province’s provincial visits and interaction with our colleagues in the legislatures it has been reported that some people are fraudulently accessing our social security services. Mothers may register more than one child, while some of them are renting their children out to other families and so on. This we need to really look at. I think we will agree that these cases of fraudulent use of access to social security are denying the genuinely deserving people of a livelihood. I also do not think that we will be able to rid ourselves of the fraudulent occurrences overnight, but I certainly believe that we can minimise the incidence substantially by exploring ways in which our information systems can talk to each other. As an example I want to mention the Home Affairs National Identification System, which is simply called Hanis.
This point again takes us back to interdepartmental collaboration. We cannot begin to dream of success as Government if different departments operate as islands and do not share information and strategies. These are challenges we have identified, and all of us should be putting our heads together to see how best to confront and defeat these. One must commend the establishment of Cabinet clusters, which was done a long time ago, because it does go a long way in facilitating co-operation for service delivery between Government departments, and especially the social cluster.
In conclusion I would like to thank the department, under the very able political leadership of Minister Skweyiya and the acting Director-General, Mr Madonsela, and his staff for their constant availability and assistance to the committee, as well as the provinces who responded to our invitations and hosted us when we visited them, our parliamentary staff and, last but most definitely not least, the thousands of civil servants staffing our desks and offices who have dedicated themselves to service to the most vulnerable citizens of our society, many a time under poor conditions. Some of us have visited some of these offices. To them I want to say: We salute you. Without you we would not be able to create a better life for our people. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms N MOERANE (Eastern Cape): Chairperson, members of the House, the Eastern Cape rises in support of the budget. I am not going to reinvent the report as the hon chairperson spoke at length about it. Rather, my input will highlight the most important things that affect the Eastern Cape and some that are unique to it at this time.
In terms of the previous financial year’s budget, our focus in the Eastern Cape - in an attempt to push back the frontiers of poverty - has been on the children, the poor, the physically challenged and the aged. Through that process and with the budget that we have been given, we have managed to have a grant intake in terms of the various social security categories.
With regard to the old age category, from March 2002 to March 2003 we had a minor jump, as we initially had an intake of 400 222, which by March 2003 had increased to 410 000, an increase of 10 227. In terms of the disability intake, we moved from 140 000 to 225 000, the increase being 85 622. In terms of the child support grant, the figure grew from 101 000 to 463 000, an increase of 352 366. With regard to the foster care grant, we grew from 6 619 to 16 317, the increase being 9 698. In terms of the care dependency grant, we moved from 6 350 to 12 120 - so we doubled that figure.
There have also been major improvements in social security as we established help desks to render, mainly, the payment of and an enquiry service for the most problematic paypoints. We bought 83 laptops and utilised them throughout all the districts. We also intensified education to educate people about the importance of the various social security grants, making sure that they were accessible to all the people, especially in the remote areas. In this regard, we embarked on a massive programme through the Soul City bashes at which children were registered for social grants.
Through the Department of Education and the director for social security, we embarked on weekly talk shows on popular radio stations. We also ensured that thousands of leaflets and brochures were circulated all over the province. We held imbizos in various villages. We also had mobile teams registering eligible beneficiaries, and we did this jointly with Home Affairs.
In terms of the child support campaign, the increase, as I indicated earlier, has allowed 114 269 children to be registered and they have received payment since then. We have had a number of challenges. Some have been mentioned, although I would like to mention the challenge regarding identification in the form of the birth certificate, especially for orphanage kids. This does not allow those that are eligible to have access. There are also those that are over the age of nine, who have no one to lean on until the age of 18. That is still a challenge for us.
There are a number of NGOs and churches that are looking after them, but we have no way of assisting. Maybe we need a policy directive in terms of how best to tackle this. Also, in terms of the challenges, one of them which has been highlighted is the brain drain of human resources. People are migrating to well-endowed areas in the former Transvaal and some are going overseas, but I don’t think this is a problem that is unique to us alone.
In terms of fraud cases, we are doing our level best to clean up, and I think all of you bear testimony to that. The unique fact about fraud is that it is committed not only by civil servants or members of the community, but also by professionals in this field - lawyers, nurses and some teachers - those who benefit in terms of the child support grant.
There is also the small misunderstanding of people who are civil servants who get both the social grant and the civil pension. So, there is that problem as well. In terms of infrastructural development, we have progressed as the Eastern Cape province to ensure that the service we are rendering is accessible to everybody.
We went to 24 functional districts and inserted cables for data capturing in all of them. However, we have problems in terms of office accommodation. We have resorted to buying park homes, but they become problematic if they are hit by a moving vehicle. For this financial year we are still focusing on the same target group, with minor additions.
We are now focusing not only on children, women and the youth, but also on people who are infected with and affected by HIV. This number is constantly increasing, and you may want to know why that is so.
When it comes to the province and national statistics, in terms of pushing back the frontiers of poverty through social security, the poverty rate amongst children in the Eastern Cape is 72% at the moment. In terms of infant mortality, the rate is 49%. The Alfred Nzo and O R Tambo districts are the poorest. As a result of this, and in terms of our provincial priorities, we are going to focus on infrastructural development and accelerate public service delivery this financial year. We also felt that we needed to make sure that, in pushing back the frontiers of poverty, we focused on the eradication of poverty and on public service transformation.
On the latter, we are hoping to reduce the numbers in terms of both social security and mainstream social welfare, because we still have the challenge of balancing the two in order to make sure that in the percentage break we have a ratio of 80:20. At the moment it is above 80%, or near 90%, which is not a healthy situation. Through these fraud interventions we are hoping to reduce the number to an 80:20 split. Regarding poverty eradication in this financial year, we have an amount of R97,992 million to ensure that the key programmes are funded. We are going to fund 20 women co-operatives, 20 dual-purpose programmes, 18 food security programmes, 10 HIV/Aids programmes, and one youth skills development programme through urban renewal. However, in partnership with other agencies, we are going to do more than that.
Regarding, specifically, the national food emergency programme, we are in partnership with the Department of Health and the departments of agriculture and education in the province in terms of which we are doing various things. For us, as a department, we are going to focus on agricultural starter packs, and for that we have granted R19,5 million, which comprises 20,8% of our total budget of R97 million.
We are also going to fund drop-in centres and soup kitchens in the amount of R2,4 million - food supplements for HIV/Aids and TB patients. An amount of R2,4 million has been set aside and that amounts to R94,1 million. In terms of HIV/Aids, in particular, an amount of R7,234 million has been set aside for the care and support of those who are infected with and affected by HIV/Aids to make sure that they are protected and that the social services for orphans and vulnerable children are supported. As a component of that, we are going to finance community-based home care in the amount of R6,6 million.
However, we are faced with a number of challenges, one of which I have mentioned already, namely the orphanage kids. We also have the challenge of extending the number of NIP sites. Currently, we have six sites, and we want to move beyond that to cover all the districts if we can, although there are limitations. However, in partnership with other departments, we think this is possible if we focus on our different roles.
In terms of HIV/Aids finances, there is the capacity-building component of home-based carers, as I have mentioned. We also need to make sure that we harmonise the funding within the budget framework.
We also have the challenge in the Eastern Cape of improving social security administration. We are striving for perfection in this, and I think in terms of the turnaround we are going to make it. We already have a target of 35 days to process applications, and that is achievable. But there are districts that can …
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Order! Your speaking time has expired, hon member.
Ms N MOERANE (Eastern Cape): Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms E C GOUWS: Thank you, Chairperson, hon Minster, hon MECs, colleagues. Chairperson, please afford me a minute to congratulate Joyce Kgoali on her election as Chair of Chairs. I just want to tell her that we are going to watch her. She should be a good referee now. [Laughter.]
As we all know, the social development sector supports the poor and vulnerable through direct income support and social welfare services. Grants are administered by the provinces, with the actual payment taking place through agents.
My province is often referred to as the poorest, the most problematic, where bad administration and non-delivery are the rule and not the exception.
A delegation from the Eastern Cape legislature gave us a very promising and positive fiscal review and developmental priorities for social development in the province. According to that, the paperwork has been done and we are now waiting for implementation.
In the context of the high prevalence of poverty, exacerbated by the impact of HIV/Aids, we need all the support to protect our society. The Eastern Cape delegation reported that ten HIV/Aids programmes have been implemented, and that the budget allocation has been increased - still just a drop in the ocean, but at least we are moving. I thank you for that.
The extension of the child support to older children is particularly laudable. My party has often pleaded for this extension and by 2006 poor children up to their 14th birthday will qualify for grants. However, hon Minister, we have this poverty age gap from 14 years to 60. This situation is untenable. A basic income grant is the only way to close this country’s huge poverty gap. To see the introduction of a basic income grant, will be a victory for those who really care about the poorest of the poor. Let us see this as the next challenge in pushing back the frontiers, not only of poverty but of hunger!
As I said before, hon Minister, Eastern Cape has received much negative publicity in the news, especially when it comes to the payout system of pensions. During the months of January and February 2003, at least four pensioners died while waiting in the line to receive their pension.
We, the select committee, went on an oversight visit to the Eastern Cape and found that the Department of Social Development outsourced the payment of pensions to two companies, Allpay and Cash Paymaster Services, or CPS.
Allpay focused on the western half of the province, and CPS serviced the former Transkei region. Allpay and CPS were awarded the R180 million three- year contract. Both companies use a computerised system using ``smartcards’’ which were devised for easy use and increased security purposes.
As we know the National Department of Social Development developed social security norms and standards, which all provinces have to comply with. These norms and standards take on board the Batho Pele principles. According to these principles, pensioners should not have to travel more than five kilometres to the nearest payout point. These payout points should have toilet facilities, running water, seating and shelter, and no beneficiary should wait more than two hours for his or her grant to be paid. Let me say at the outset, in the Eastern Cape these norms and standards are still lacking. We still have these very long queues of beneficiaries waiting for hours to receive their grants. We do understand the vastness of the province, and the negative impact this travelling distance has on the ability to deliver an efficient service.
There are, however, things lacking and those need to be attended to. The following problems need urgent attention: incomplete enrolment of beneficiaries - some important personal details are missing on application forms; departmental backlog in processing procurators - people who collect grants on behalf of beneficiaries; failure in areas in forwarding lists of frail beneficiaries, resulting in those beneficiaries unnecessarily standing in queues; shortage of critical staff in the department; availability of laptops with beneficiary information for help desks - but thank you, MEC, as you said those were in operation, well done; and the review of ID documentation of potential beneficiaries, especially from the former Transkei and Ciskei. Other problems include: poor facilities at payout points, for example lack of ablution facilities, shelter, etc; failure to adhere to the principle that payout points should not exceed the 1 000 beneficiaries per payout point; poor water provision resulting in water sellers charging for drinking water, and enterprising neighbours charging for the use of their toilets; and poor crowd control and insufficient security at some payout points, leading to the intimidation of beneficiaries from micro-lenders and others. We suggest that there should be visible deployment of police at payout points.
Hon Minister, the issue of microlenders at pension payout points needs urgent attention. Are they registered with SARS? Are they regulated? Are there guidelines on the maximum amount of interest that may be charged to loan applicants? This matter should be investigated. The harassment of these poor people must stop!
We need a full-time commitment by all stakeholders, and especially those who hold the purse strings, to implement systematically an integrated programme where the social cluster, as a collective, delivers services to the communities in need.
Friswell once said, and I quote: ``Poverty makes people satirical - soberly, sadly, bitterly satirical.’’
Hon Minister, you are devoted to your job, and my party salutes you for that. South Africa needs more than a good Minister. You should strive to get your counterparts in the provinces, and their administrations, to your level. Then, and only then, will we succeed in not having bitterly satirical people in our country. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr E NOE (Free State): Chairperson, hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs, members of the NCOP, ladies and gentlemen, granted and given the shortcomings that have been outlined by the members who spoke before me and the Minister, I think we should be grateful that when we look back we can be full of pride that the Government of the ANC has not disappointed the majority of the people who have put it into power to transform this country and bring about a better life for all. The budget statement which the Minister has just tabled attests to the fact that the battle against poverty is won.
Evidence has proved beyond reasonable doubt that the poverty alleviation programmes introduced by Government have indeed given South Africans hope for the future, because many of the most vulnerable of our people - the elderly, children and people with disabilities who benefit from the social security grants - are able to provide for their own basic needs such as food, clothing and shelter.
It is worth mentioning and also reminding this House that the Free State is the second poorest province in the country. Hence it has benefited from the Presidential Lead Projects whereby certain areas were identified as nodal points because of their high level of poverty.
Drawing from the national and provincial focus to the improvement of the social security service delivery system central to our challenge has been to make social security services more accessible and available to people in rural and informal settlements, in line with the norms and standards. In this regard, the department has embarked on a number of programmes, including upgrading the systems and procedures in the provision of social security grants. In presenting an input on the Free State today, may I begin by stating that the tide has indeed turned. We remain focused and united in our belief that the widespread poverty in the midst of global prosperity is both unsustainable and morally unacceptable.
The department’s core functions are poverty alleviation, development, care and protection of the vulnerable. The key provincial policy priorities are: improving service delivery by improving the existing system of social security; transformation of other welfare services by improving the quality and equity of service delivery, capacity and governance of the social service sector; mitigating the negative impact of HIV/Aids and expanding the home-based care and HIV/Aids programme; reducing poverty through integrated sustainable development by specifically prioritising the most vulnerable groups; responding to the brutal effects of all forms of violence against women and children; rebuilding families and communities through policies and programmes empowering the young, old and disabled to promote social integration; lastly, a commitment to corporate governance, which includes working with different tiers of Government and civil society.
The social security programme is central to the provision of safety nets for the most vulnerable groups, namely children, women, older persons and people with disabilities. This department is constantly improving the social security system in order to push back the frontiers of poverty by making grants accessible to eligible beneficiaries, particularly those in the rural areas.
In response to President Mbeki’s call last year to register all people who are eligible for social grants, the Free State officially launched its campaign to increase the uptake of social pensions and grants at Roadside Farm in the Thabo Mofutsanyana district in August 2002. At the launch, the MEC for Social Development appealed to all Free Staters to put our heads and hands together in crafting a viable and winning strategy that would ensure maximum access to the social security system. A positive response was received from the following stakeholders, who have made invaluable contributions in giving support. They include our Departments of Home Affairs, of Health and of Education, municipalities, the Soul City drama series, and the Alliance for Children’s Rights to Social Security, or Access. I won’t read the whole list. Together with these stakeholders we have managed to increase the number of grant beneficiaries by more than 20%.
The biggest increase has been in the following grant types, as at 14 May
- In the old age category there are 122 352 beneficiaries and we have already spent R84 million. In disability there are 7 579 beneficiaries and we have spent R55 million. Regarding foster care, there are 15 394 beneficiaries and we have spent R7 million. In the care dependency category there are 2 560 and we have spent R1,7 million. With regard to child support grants from 0 to 6 years, there are 153 455 and we have spent R24 million, while those of ages ranging from 7 to 8 years number 8 842 and we have spent R1,3 million.
In rolling out the multidisciplinary assessment panel for care dependency and disability grants, due to the success of the two pilot disability assessment panels, provision has been made for an additional seven panels, which are being rolled out with effect from April 2003. An amount of R3 million has been allocated for this current financial year towards the upgrading of payout points in ensuring that beneficiaries receive their grants in a safe and conducive environment.
Regarding the professionalisation of social security staff through multiskilled training which includes computer literacy, customer care and a one-year social security course, this remains a high priority for the department. Funds have been made available for this purpose.
We cannot but overemphasise the casual link between poverty and HIV/Aids in our communities, which creates a vicious cycle threatening our dreams of achieving a better life for all. More and more people are plunged into poverty, children are deprived of care and protection, with families increasingly deprived and disempowered by the scourge of HIV/Aids.
The social security programme remains the live wire safety net that will go a long way towards improving the lot of care-givers and extended families in their quest to provide care and support to their next of kin. Key to this challenge is our ability to mobilise communities and civil organisations to intensify our efforts against the spread of the epidemic and to redirect its impact.
The integrated food security programme has a two-pronged strategy of distributing food parcels for a period of three months and the provision of cost-effective starter packs and support services from the Department of Agriculture and Land Affairs. This integrated food security programme is driven by the cluster departments consisting of the Departments of Social Development, of Health, of Agriculture and Land Affairs and of Education.
This programme is led by the Department of Agriculture and Land Affairs, while other stakeholders such as local government, municipalities, NGOs, CBOs and faith-based organisations are also involved in the identification of beneficiaries and the monitoring of the distribution of food parcels. The province is currently busy with the second phase of the distribution of 30 000 food parcels and the final phase is scheduled for the end of May 2003.
Due to the limited time allocated to this input, the provincial department of social development will be in a position to provide more details and further information about when we interact with our counterparts. Lastly, I want to welcome the statement made by the Minister that he is indeed succeeding in bringing on board the trade unions and getting civil servants to pull up their socks. I think that this is one critical area we must not shy away from in ensuring that our civil servants do respond.
During our constituency week, when we visit offices, we sometimes get really embarrassed. I want to make reference to the situation which is problematic where social workers within municipalities are not working hand in hand with the social workers in the department. That creates problems for the communities, who will not know where to draw the line. Social workers in the municipalities are not responsive enough and we need to pay serious attention to this. We support the budget. [Applause.]
Mnr F ADAMS: Mnr die Adjunkvoorsitter, Minister, agb lede van die Raad, provinsiale minister en LUR’e, om vir vandag te sorg, beteken om in die toekoms te belê.
‘n Belangrike deel van ons missie is om in vandag se kinders te belê deur middel van kennis- en karakteropbouende opvoeding en leiding vir hulle, hul ouers en hul gemeenskappe. Wanneer jy die jeug opvoed, help jy om hulle toe te rus om vir hulself te kan sorg. Jy leer hulle ``om vis te vang’’ en daardeur maak jy dit vir hulle moontlik om deel van die oplossing te word vir die behoeftes van hul gemeenskappe.
Dit behoort ons doel te wees om diegene wat fisiek gestrem is en wat so erg gestigmatiseer word en wie se potensiaal in baie sfere van die samelewing misken word, in staat te stel, op te voed en te bemagtig.
MIV/vigs eis steeds ‘n verwoestende tol in Suid-Afrika. Vir bykans tien jaar lank al is die meeste mense se reaksie op hierdie epidemie om dit as ‘n mediese kwessie, soms as ‘n kwessie van sosiale gedrag of ‘n politieke kwessie te beskou. Baie min pogings het tot dusver op die geestelike aspek gefokus - om ‘n omgewing te bou sonder stigma, wat begin deur na die geestestoestand van die geïnfekteerde om te sien.
Die wêreld kan nie genoeg hospitale bou om na al sy MIV/vigs-pasiënte om te sien nie, en kan ook nie wag dat ‘n oplossing eendag na vore kom nie. Ek glo dat net hulle families en gemeenskappe werklik na geïnfekteerdes kan omsien.
Daar is dwarsdeur Suid-Afrika wonderlike voetsoolvlak-organisasies, wat meestal met bitterlik skrapse begrotings werk, besig om die stigma te verander wat aan diegene kleef wat met MIV/vigs besmet is. Hulle help hulle om aanvaar te word, om met liefde in hul gemeenskappe versorg te word, en in die proses bou hulle modelle van gemeenskap- en familiesorg wat ‘n kans het om hierdie siekte te oorwin.
‘n Groot probleem is die ongelykheid in die salarisse van maatskaplike werkers. Maatskaplike werkers wat in diens van die staat is, verdien meer geld as diegene in die nie-regeringsektor. Ons stel voor dat ‘n deel van die antwoord daarin kan lê dat meer geld beskikbaar gestel word aan nie- regeringsektore, gemeenskapsgebaseerde organisasies en geloofsgebaseerde organisasies. Baie nie-regeringsektore, gemeenskapsgebaseerde organisasies en geloofsgebaseerde organisasies word egter glad nie gefinansier nie, en die verskillende provinsies finansier hulle ook verskillend. Daar is ‘n behoefte aan ‘n eenvormige finansieringsbeleid. Daar is ‘n toename in die hoeveelheid probleme in die gemeenskap wat lei tot ‘n toename in die aantal nie-regeringsorganisasies, gemeenskapsgebaseerde organisasies en geloofsgebaseerde organisasies. Daar sal gekyk moet word na addisionele fondse om te verhoed dat baie van hierdie organisasies hulle deure sluit. As daar meer fondse is, kan nie-regeringsorganisasies wat tans nie befonds word nie, ook fondse ontvang en al die provinsies kan dan ook op gelyke voet gebring word deur dieselfde subsidies aan hierdie organisasies te betaal.
Nog ‘n oplossing vir die probleem is ons vrywilligerkorps. Ons vrywilligers probeer om mense en die behoeftes van die gemeenskap bymekaar uit te bring deur middel van ‘n reeks programme en dienste. Hulle is daaraan toegewy om oplossings vir sosiale kwessies en probleme te vind wat sal help om ‘n verskil te maak in ons buurte en gemeenskappe en dit sal verbeter. Hulle vervang nie ander agentskappe en organisasies in die gemeenskap nie, maar oorbrug eintlik die gaping in dienste wat deur agentskappe gelewer word. Daarby bied hulle die geleentheid om netwerke te vorm met ander leiers in nie-winsgewende, korporatiewe en regeringsgemeenskappe. Deur vrywillige diens kan mense die lewensgehalte in hul gemeenskappe versterk en verbeter en hulself en ander help om gelukkiger, gesonder en meer produktiewe lewens te lei. Die feit dat vrywilligers op individuele basis hul dienste aanbied, is ook voordelig, want dit help om ‘n persoon se selfbeeld te bou, dit dra sosiale waardes oor en gee die persoon die verantwoordelikheid om sy dienste op ‘n vrywillige basis aan te bied as ‘n persoonlike onderneming om deur sy diens iets aan die gemeenskap terug te gee.
Menseliefde is ‘n waarde wat van geslag tot geslag oorgedra word deur ouers, verlengde families en die gemeenskap. Tot onlangs was dit nie nodig om dit formeel te verwoord nie, dit was net hoe mense geleef het. Vandag word families in ander rolle geplaas. Hulle trek dikwels rond en woon selde naby mekaar. Baie families ken nie eers hul bure nie. Die ouer familielede woon in tehuise waar hulle deur professionele mense versorg word. Daar is nie meer duidelike maniere waarop families kan saamwerk en tot hul gemeenskappe kan bydra nie. U mag dink dat die kinders van vandag gelukkig is om minder verantwoordelikhede te hê, en lekker moderne speelgoed het om hulle besig te hou. Ek glo hulle is uitgehonger vir geleenthede om aan hulself en ander te bewys dat hulle van jongs af ‘n waardevolle bydrae tot die samelewing kan maak. Dit is duidelik dat kinders erkenning wil hê vir wat hulle kan bydra. Kleuters probeer altyd hulpvaardig wees; die boetie vee byvoorbeeld die sussie se neus af, skink ‘n glas melk, maak skoon as die melk gestort het, ens. Die resultate mag dalk nie altyd so goed wees nie, maar die bedoeling is suiwer.
Ons behoort ons families betrokke te kry by vrywillige diens, want families is dinamiese sosiale stelsels, met struktuur wette, komponente en reëls. Ouerskap vorm die kerngeloof wat ‘n kind in homself het. Die belangrike reëls is dié wat bepaal wat dit beteken om ‘n mens te wees. ‘n Familie definieer homself deur die toewyding en liefde van sy individuele lede. Almal trek voordeel daaruit deur deel te neem aan aktiwiteite wat daarop gemik is om hulle saam te snoer.
Voorsitter, ek wil afsluit. Ons demokrasie is nege jaar oud. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Mr F ADAMS: Mr Deputy Chairperson, Minister, hon members of the Council, provincial Minister and MECs, to provide for today is to invest in the future.
An important part of our mission is to invest in the children of today by means of knowledge and character-building education and guidance for them, their parents and their communities. When you educate the youth, you assist them by equipping them to be able to take care of themselves. You teach them ``to catch fish’’, and in so doing make it possible for them to become part of the solution with regard to the needs of their communities.
It should be our aim to enable, educate and empower those who are physically disabled and who are very severely stigmatised and whose potential is disregarded in many spheres of society.
HIV/Aids still takes a devastating toll in South Africa. For almost ten years, the reaction of most people to this epidemic has been to regard it as a medical issue, sometimes as an issue of social behaviour or as a political issue. Until now, few efforts have focused on the spiritual aspect - to create an environment without stigma, that from the outset cares for the mental condition of the infected.
The world cannot build enough hospitals to take care of all its HIV/Aids patients, nor can it wait for a solution to appear one day. I believe that only the families and the communities can really take care of those who are infected.
Throughout South Africa there are wonderful organisations at grassroots level which for the most part work with extremely meagre budgets, engaged in changing the stigma that clings to those who are infected with HIV/Aids. They assist them to be accepted, to be lovingly taken care of in their communities and in the process they create models of community and family care that has a chance of triumphing over this illness.
A major problem is the disparity in the salaries of social workers. Social workers employed by the state earn more than those in the non-governmental sector. We suggest that part of the answer could lie in making more money available to non-government sectors, community-based organisations and religious organisations. Many of the non-government sectors, community- based organisations and religious organisations are, however, not funded at all and the various provinces also fund them differently. There is a need for a uniform funding policy. There is an increase in the number of problems in the community that have contributed to an increase in the number of non-government organisations, community-based organisations and religious organisations. In order to prevent many of these organisations from closing down, we would have to look at additional funds. If there are more funds, non-government organisations currently not being funded can also receive funds, and by paying the same subsidies to these organisations all the provinces will be placed on an equal footing.
Another solution to this problem is our corps of volunteers. Our volunteers attempt to bring people and the needs of the community together by means of a range of programmes and services. They are dedicated to finding solutions to social issues and problems that will help to make a difference in our neighbourhoods and communities and will improve them. They do not replace other agencies and organisations in the community, but actually bridge the gap in services rendered by agencies. In addition to this, they also present an opportunity to network with other leaders in the non-profit, corporative and government communities. People can, by means of volunteer services, strengthen the quality of life in their communities, enhance and improve themselves, and help others to lead happier, healthier and more productive lives. The fact that volunteers offer their services on an individual basis is also beneficial because it helps to build a person’s self-image, it transfers social values and gives the person the responsibility to offer his services on a voluntary basis as a personal undertaking through his service to give something back to the community.
Humanitarianism is a value that is transferred from generation to generation by parents, extended families and the community. Until recently it was not necessary to formally express it, it was just the way people lived. Families are placed in different roles today. They often move around and very seldom live near one another. Many families do not even know their neighbours. The older members of the family stay in institutions where they are cared for by professional people. There are no longer distinct ways in which families can work together and contribute to their communities. You may think that the children of today are happy to have fewer responsibilities and wonderful modern toys to keep them busy. I believe that they are starved for opportunities to prove to themselves and to others that they can make a valuable contribution to society from a young age. It is clear that children want recognition for what they can contribute. Toddlers are always trying to be helpful; for example, the little brother wipes his sister’s nose, pours a glass of milk, cleans up when milk has been spilled, etc. The results may not always be so good, but the intention is pure.
We should get our families involved in voluntary service because families are dynamic social structures with structural laws, components and rules. Parenthood forms the crux of the belief a child has in himself. The important rules are those that determine what it means to be a human being. A family defines itself by means of the dedication and love of its individual members. Everybody benefits from taking part in activities which are designed to bring them together.
Chairperson, I want to close. Our democracy is nine years old]. The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Member, your time has expired.
Mr F ADAMS: Die Nuwe NP bedank die Minister en die Wes-Kaapse provinsiale minister en hul departemente wat nou … [The New NP thanks the Minister and the Western Cape provincial Minister and their departments which now … ]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mnr Adams, die tyd is om, Meneer. [Mr Adams, your time has expired, Sir.]
Ms D M RAMODIBE: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon MECs, members of the NCOP, ladies and gentlemen, in pushing back the frontiers of poverty, the Gauteng department of social services and development has come up with programmes intended to be part of their acceleration to intensify the fight against poverty, and the roll-out plans to engage our communities and public representatives on these programmes.
The primary focus is on the vulnerable groups, like children, elderly people, people with disabilities, women and the youth. Beyond that, we are also confronted with matters of attending to HIV/Aids, poverty and the abuse of alcohol and drugs. It is within this context that the department seeks to broaden the access of these services and to reposition the programmes to suit our call to push back the frontiers of poverty.
The current scenario and proposed roll-out are the payment of social grants, strengthening the social grant net and delivering quality social services. This will ensure that those who qualify for grants are reached and registered, especially child-related grants. To reach more children in distress, the child support age limit has been increased to 14 years, staggered in three phases until 2005.
Grants which are payable include the child support grant for children below nine years, currently; care dependency grants for disabled children under 18; old age grants for males above 65 and females above 60; disability grants for people with disabilities above 18 years, including people living with HIV/Aids that is at an advanced stage; war veteran grants for veterans of the First and Second World War and other related wars; foster-care grants for care-givers of abandoned or neglected children; and grants-in- aid for care-givers who take care of the weak and vulnerable.
More than 656 000 people in Gauteng continue to survive on grants on 14 April 2003. More than 352 000 are children; 252 592 are the aged; 119 491 are people with disabilities; 12 047 are foster care-givers; 7 332 are care dependants; 413 are grants-in-aid; while 1 132 are war veterans.
For the 2003-04 financial year the department has budgeted R3,8 million to reach more than 1,5 million people. From this scenario it is clear that, at the end of this financial year, the department shall have overspent on the current beneficiaries, excluding possible new applications.
The number of child-support grants, given the new age limit, is far above the national target, pending the necessary audits to determine fraud and possible misuse of the grant. It is thus clear that the following grants for children can be targeted for mass registration: foster-care grants for orphans or neglected or abused children; care dependency grants for children with disabilities; and grants-in-aid for care-givers of vulnerable groups, especially sick beneficiaries.
As far as the roll-out plan is concerned, the key component of our mass mobilisation approach involves the manner in which volunteers and public representatives can take part actively in the campaign. The methods proposed are as follows: A provincial week of social grants registration, where we will set out a week in October as part of the build-up to the International Day for the Eradication of Poverty, on 17 October, to deploy progressive leaders from the democratic forces across the province to register for grants.
Here branches will embark on a door-to-door campaign as a build-up to the two weeks of social grants registration. Above all, public representatives will then be deployed to various communities to mobilise people to register for grants. The registration days will be from 3 to 31 May - I am referring to Saturdays.
As regards assistance to people infected and affected by HIV/Aids, the department has budgeted R12 million to provide for the strengthening of community initiatives for the care of people infected with and affected by HIV/Aids, and the provision of school uniforms to children, especially orphans in distress.
I am going to skip some of the information because this was supposed to be tabled by the MEC. I will just highlight the significant issues like EkuRhuleni, which was targeted as a pilot programme to roll out the strengthening of the clothing community projects and to support local economic developments that target orphans. This rolling out programme will involve the distribution of forms to structures and schools to identify these children, and the identification of community programmes on home- based care to strengthen community initiatives in the fight against HIV/Aids.
There is also an establishment of development centres to consolidate poverty projects across the province. The role and responsibilities of these development centres in poverty alleviation will be to facilitate and co-ordinate capacity-building and skills development programmes; to render projects, management and support services to beneficiaries; and to facilitate and co-ordinate the provision of other relevant services to beneficiaries.
I also won’t name the currently funded development centres and the identified development centres for future support. I just want to mention that the rationale for the identified areas is in accordance with the draft document regarding strategy and tactics, research and facilitation to put Africa first.
The identified locations for development centres have been informed through the intervention of the full DSO and the local government social workers. I will also not go into the activities in those development centres, but I’ll just name a few, namely building construction, upholstery, bakery, poultry and others.
With regard to integration, the interdepartmental poverty alleviation committee is to link their planning and implementation with development centres and MPCC. Development centres are to be linked to local government integration development plans. The interdepartmental poverty alleviation committee, development centres and MPCCs and other departmental beneficiaries are to be referred to the Gauteng special projects where possible and relevant.
Regarding the food security strategy, the targeting criteria will be child- headed households, people ill with HIV/Aids awaiting grants, access to social security to those not in receipt of any regular state assistance, HIV/Aids-infected people who are unemployed because they are not fit for work and do not receive any regular state assistance, and TB patients awaiting access to grants for social security and not in receipt of any regular state assistance.
With regard to challenges, by 15 April 2003 more than 23 families have been identified or approached by ward committees, and they voiced the following complaints: sustainability, the budget raising expectations that we may not deliver, and the effect on election preparations.
It is within this context that the department is preparing a business plan to incorporate the views on the ground, provincial cabinet and the department limitations. Thus, during the Budget Vote speech we will announce a proper mechanism to deal with these matters.
Concerning the food relief funding for 2003 and 2004, an amount of R27 million has been allocated for this programme. Three per cent of this total allocation will be for administration, 71% for food parcels, 20,8% for starter packs, 2,6% for HIV/Aids, 2,6% for soup kitchens and drop-in centres. With regard to sustainability around food security … [Time expired.] [Applause.]
Mr H J BEKKER (KwaZulu-Natal): Madam Chair, it’s a pleasure for me to address the House, particularly since it’s my fourth maiden speech. I don’t know how long a person can stay a maiden, but after four times I think I would still need the protection of the Chair. It’s also a privilege, particularly in terms of the fact that I can do my bit here to assist the select committee under the chairmanship of the hon Ms Jacobus. I hope that we will be able to contribute.
Social development in South Africa places severe demands, not only on the Budget, but also on our social conscience. Looking around us and seeing the poverty, we will note that it is more visible than the prosperity in the country. The utter and absolute divide between the haves and the have-nots must be addressed.
When looking at KwaZulu-Natal, this division is even more visible. Over the years, and particularly during the time of the so-called independent states and national states, it was the general opinion of many people that the previous government determinedly did underfund the so-called national states in comparison to the independent states, with the idea that they should be forced into a position of accepting independence.
The scars of this policy are still visible and we will have to look at ways in which one could address that. In KwaZulu-Natal the process has caused people to become poorer and poorer. Today the backlog is still visible. Despite the self-help schemes and programmes of self-sufficiency, these matters could be addressed only partially.
The hon chairperson referred to the terrible ratio of social workers in respect to social clients. The enormous case loads that social workers have to handle must be the challenge of the future. As public representatives we are grateful for the improvement in the amount payable to the social pensioners. I, however, believe that the payout of pensioners must be streamlined. The question to be asked is why the banking institutions can’t play a greater role. Yes, the banks do have a solid argument that it would not be financially viable for them since it would be mostly pensions that came in and that would be withdrawn immediately afterwards, but I fail to see why the department cannot pay an administrative fee to the banks, or Postbank, for that matter, in order to defray the costs of the banks which they would have for these so-called negative accounts.
It should be possible to assess what the average cost to the department would be when pensions are being paid out directly or even by electronic cash payout services. Did we ever do a calculation of the losses owing to theft, robberies and false payments?
Although the majority of pensioners would never ever be able to benefit from this particular scheme, and we would have to continue the manual payout of these pensioners, I think a significant portion of pensioners could be assisted in this particular way, and I should think that it could be viable to look at possibilities of this nature.
Members who know me and have always pictured me in the financial and economic spheres, may be amazed to know that for seven years of my professional career prior to politics I was involved in the welfare field myself. During most of the seventies and the early eighties I was the administrative and financial manager of the National Council for Child and Family Welfare.
During this period I was also elected as the secretary of the then ad hoc committee of all national welfare organisations. My main task was to provide collective information and data for the preparation of the memorandum at that time to improve the subsidisation formula of welfare organisations with social workers in their service.
Members may be amazed to know that at that stage the type of subsidy that was allocated to welfare organisations was based on the entry level salary of a social worker in the employ of the state, and that was the only amount that welfare organisations could get. It was only after solid argument that it was accepted by the department that the ratio should be changed and that it moved to the basis that we have today.
Again, I think the stresses, particularly owing to the ratio of social workers to clients, could bring this aspect to the fore, and the time will probably come at some stage or other that we will have to look into this matter of the subsidisation of social workers in the welfare field, because they’re taking a massive workload off the shoulders of the department, which is actually the responsibility of the department as such.
With these few words I wish to close. Let us hope that our country can experience more economic prosperity and that we will be able to do more for our poor and for poverty alleviation. I thank you. [Applause.]
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: I have been mandated formally by my province, the MEC and all my permanent delegates from a peaceful Limpopo province, to tell the Minister that the absence of a baseline has always been a major cause of inconsistencies in our welfare budget allocations. This has resulted in insufficient coverage and shortfalls. Every year in September our social security budget, in particular, becomes exhausted, whereby new beneficiaries are made to wait for the new financial year in order to receive their much-needed grants.
I was reluctant, but my MEC urged me to make the Minister aware that, on the basis of the surveys conducted, it became crystal clear and categoric that the problem is not the lack of baseline, as claimed, but it is underfunding. A good example of the effects of underfunding could be seen when one takes into account the many times that the child support grant targets have been revised. At first, the provincial target was set at 410 000 and later at 510 000 as against the 600 000 set nationally.
It is commonly known that a major problem faced by rural provinces such as KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo and Eastern Cape is the use of grants as a substitute for employment. Hence, at times, people go to the extent of using illegal means to access these grants. The major casualty in this case is so-called temporary disability. The fact is that in Government there is nothing temporary, as the general practice is that temporary ends up being permanent. There was a big debate where some people were suggesting that there is a strong belief that the temporary disability should be phased out because it is subjective. The debate is still continuing, but we would like to get the opinion of the Minister in this regard. Because the question that remains and which ought to be answered by us all, is what are we going to put in place if it is phased out?
It should be pointed out that in Limpopo, we are affected by cross-border problems, as we share borders with three neighbouring states, namely Botswana, Mozambique and Zimbabwe. People from these countries cross over and obtain relevant documents, such as ID’s and birth certificates, which they present to apply for grants. In terms of our Constitution, as the Minister is aware, we are left with no choice but to accept their applications. Do not be surprised, as we are seated here and as I am speaking, there is a draft court order instructing us to disburse grants to 400 children and 395 old age beneficiaries from the neighbouring countries because they possess relevant documents issued in our country.
The MEC said I must inform the hon Minister that another policy problem we are facing is funding nonprofit organisations. In most cases funding of these organisations is urban biased, with no coverage in rural areas because registered organisations are only found in urban areas. Coupled with this scenario is the issue of access to other grants, such as foster care. This grant does not accommodate the extended African family system, as access to it will demand of a person to go through the Westernised adoption process. It is a well-known fact that one may take care of the kids of one’s relatives without going through a process of changing their original particulars. Knowing the Minister as I do, he will look into this, because we are Africans. Let us not unintentionally disadvantage the Africans we intend serving.
Another problem is the shortage of social workers who are expected to handle more cases than expected. They are very few. Right now the ratio of social worker to beneficiaries is abnormal. I want to urge the department to look into this very seriously. Another problem is this arrangement whereby a social worker is expected to submit only 2 cases in 7 to 8 weeks. You go into these social workers’ offices to find that their files are very big, but that they are not allowed to submit cases every day as they can. The arrangement with justice is to submit only two cases and wait for seven to eight weeks for them to resubmit again. With due respect, hon Minister, can that be looked into, Sir?
We would like to put on record that there is a distortion of our welfare budget allocations. At face value there seems to be an increase in our budget. The truth is that the purported increase is largely an allocation for regulation 11. As an expert in this field, I am telling those who are novices that regulation 11 is backpay rate for the increase of child support grants in October 2002 and April 2003 respectively, the child support grants extension as well as the National Food Emergency Programme. Therefore, the claim that it is a 23% increase in our budget for the current financial year as against the national norm of 19% is, in real terms, not true. The budget increase does not improve coverage but only deals with the status quo.
In conclusion, one would like to present the problem of infrastructure backlog in respect of our welfare facilities, such as payout points and offices at service delivery points. This also goes for our staffing norms. At present our staffing level is only 45% functional. The reason for this state of affairs is that 98% of our budget goes to grants, with the result that other welfare services such as child justice and social work services, to mention but a few, get squeezed.
Lastly, I want to remind … [Time Expired.]
Mr J O TLHAGALE: Madam Chairperson, hon Minister, ladies and gentlemen, the ruling party’s imbizos and other parties’ road shows, discussions and interactions with communities are playing an important role in identifying and acquainting our various constituencies with the assistance Government is providing to alleviate poverty. This is particularly relevant to the vulnerable groups such as the elderly, young children and people with disabilities.
It is reported by the relevant MEC in the North West province that the child support grant beneficiaries have increased by 83,5%, from 120 140 in April 2001 to 220 482 in April 2003. However, there are still some of our children’s children who are struggling to acquire the necessary documentation that would enable them to tender their applications. It is also reported by the above-mentioned source that for the current financial year for HIV/Aids was allocated R7,58 million; food security and nutrition, R41, 615 million; child support grant extensions, R125, 426 million; and R3,68 million for poverty relief.
It must, however, be remembered that the increases in the allocation of child support grants and the extension of the service to children of up to 14 years in the next three years will result in a consequent increase in the infrastructural needs. One of the challenges, as alluded to by other provinces, is that our provinces experience a shortage of social workers who are relinquishing their services in order to seek more lucrative employment elsewhere. This trend will need to be looked into, and some remedies sought to reverse it.
However, there are those who argue that the payment of child care grants is indirectly encouraging unprotected sex and the bearing of more children by the young mothers in order to qualify for more grants. I contend that we cannot stand by if that is really happening. [Time expired]
Mr H T SOGONI: Hon Madam Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs, special delegates and hon members, let me start by expressing the UDM’s appreciation of Government’s special attention given to the challenges facing the Eastern Cape, and for the decisive efforts taken by the province and the national Government to remove the major obstacles that have continued to disturb and impede proper service delivery that is so necessary to address the plight of the poor in my province.
The sting of the Scorpions is definitely being felt by the dishonest officials who have defrauded the department of millions of rands meant for the most needy in society. Criminals must be made to pay heavily for their sins.
The UDM further encourages the province and the Department of Social Development, in particular, to take very seriously and to respond positively to the findings contained in the report recently released by the task team on matters of poor service delivery in the Eastern Cape.
Mphathiswa, icebiso nesicelo se-UDM kukuba ugutyulo lokungcola nophengululo olunzulu ngobume beli sebe lakho malungapheleli kwii-ofisi eziseBisho, koko malunwenwe, luhle lude luye kufikelela nakwii-ofisi zezithili zethu. Inkal’ ixing’ etyeni naphaya kumanqwanqwa asezantsi, mhlekazi.
Ndenze nje umzekelo, phaya kuthi eMzimkhulu apho ndizinze khona, Mphathiswa, kukho umzali ongakhange ade axhamle kuncedo luka Rhulumente oluyimali eyinkxaso esisibonelelo sabantwana (child support grant) wade wabe umntwana uya phuma kwiminyaka efanelekileyo, emithandathu. Xa ezama ukubuza umzali, nam ndide ndamncedisa, impendulo ayinikwayo kuthiwa igama lakhe laphuma kwipay-point engeyiyo eyakhe. Ikhonjwe kwaNdab’ ayilali eMadudusini, sithi siyibamb’ apho, ikhonjw’ eLusikisiki. Kodwa ke lilonke ugqibele engafumananga luncedo loo mzali. Kodwa igama lakhe laliseliphumile. Umbuzo ke, mhlekazi, uthi ubunzima bungakanani na kwi- ofisi yaseMzimkhulu neyaseLusikisiki ukulungisa umcimbi wepay-point kude konakalelwe umntwana nomzali? (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.) [The UDM would like to suggest to the hon Minister that sewerage and the evaluation of this Department should not only be at Bisho, but it should be extended up to district offices. The hon Minister must know that there are in the lower levels, Madam Chairperson.
Citing just one example, where I come from in the Mzimkhulu area, there is a parent who did not get the child support grant until her child was more than six years old. When she enquired - I even helped her - she got the answer that her name was registered at a different pay point. It was said she was registered at Madudusini and when we got there, we were told to go to Lusikisiki. Eventually she did not receive the grant. Her name, however, appeared in the system. The question then is: Are offices at Mzimkhulu and Lusikisiki in that much of a bad situation that they cannot even solve such a small issue, that of a pay point, such that a parent and a child should lose out like that?]
According to Gail Wannenberg in an article in the South African Year Book on International Affairs, 2002-03, poverty reduction remains one of the most intractable issues faced by policy makers in post-apartheid South Africa. This statement was echoed by the Premier of the Eastern Cape in his state of the province address in February this year, when he stated:
Poverty poses the biggest single threat to our people.
It is also estimated that about 18% to 24% of South Africans live in chronic poverty, which is a worrying factor indeed, especially in view of Statistics South Africa’s indication that the poor have become poorer and the rich richer since 1995. The mission of the department, which seeks to enable the poor, the vulnerable and the excluded to secure a better life for themselves should therefore be supported by this House and all those who are committed to building a caring society.
During the briefing by provinces on the intergovernmental Fiscal Review early this week, it was clearly observed that almost all the provincial departments agree that poverty reduction and HIV/Aids are a priority. For instance, the Limpopo MEC’s submission emphasised a primary focus as being -
… the empowerment of communities to assume full responsibility for their well-being and to take charge of their initiative to eradicate poverty.
The UDM supports this Budget Vote. [Time expired]
Mr M L FRANSMAN (Western Cape): Chairperson, Minister Skweyiya, hon members, MECs, in the last month in April, as directed by the President, we were instructed to actually go out and listen to different communities for our Imbizo month. We have listened to approximately 10 000 people and what we have heard really was that Government is on the right track. There is a question of deepening delivery in these communities.
Listening today also to the strategic objectives and the directives of the Minister in his speech, one can only but say that the Government cares and that we need to further fast-track delivery.
We came back from Stellenbosch last year invigorated and enthusiastic in our commitment to create a better life for all. Our President contextualised our strategic goals in the 8 January statement as follows:
Central to these tasks and strategic goal is the realisation of the objective of the eradication of poverty. When our people attained their freedom in 1994, they inherited a country with millions of people afflicted by poverty. These masses had fought both for the emancipation from oppression and a liberation from poverty and worry.
From Mr Skewyiya’s speech, or budget focus, it is clear that the way forward for us in the province is by setting out very practically the work we will be undertaking to realise a better life for all. The challenges, however, confronting us are of a structural nature and indeed poverty is structurally imbedded. It is therefore important that our approach be integrated and multidimensional.
Poverty should be addressed through a systemic approach. We cannot afford to create boxes for ourselves or not look beyond the rigid parameters. After all, these are limitations we place on ourselves.
After nine years of liberation, we have learned very well the lesson that everything impacts on everything else. And here I want to cite the example of the child support grant. To children under the age of 14 years it has been extended over the next three years. To realise effective implementation of that grant, we have identified our relationship with the Department of Home Affairs as being absolutely crucial to our ability to succeed and therefore I want to thank the select committee chairperson, who has spoken about that.
The registration of births and issuing of identity documents are an integral part of the pensions and grant systems. Its most immediate and urgent impact is in relation to the CSG, or child support grant, because for every month a child is without a valid birth registration document, that child suffers loss and deprivation.
In the Western Cape the child support grant is one of the most important interventions for us, because it alleviates poverty and the suffering of children at the most basic level of survival. It provides a safety net for each and every child in order to survive. Already we have well over 200 000 children on the system receiving that grant. In the next two financial years we expect to increase that figure by about 163 000.
Bearing in mind that we have consistently beaten the forecast uptake of grants, the figures may well be much higher than that. Currently we have the obligation to ensure that each child that qualifies for a grant receives it. Also, in the last financial year, we were able to increase our social grants beneficiaries by approximately 100 000. Approximately 85% of the Western Cape budget for social services is spent on grants to the extent that, by the end of this financial year, we expect 550 000 grants to be on payment on a monthly basis. That means more than half a million people per month receive assistance from Government.
In the province our budget for this financial year talks of approximately R3,7 billion, with R280 million per month being spent directly on the poorest. The critical challenge which we have identified, apart from ensuring the delivery of the grant, is the question of how the person and the family spend that grant. So, the strategy is to reflect on the right person, the right grant at the right time, but we are taking it further in the province by saying the right person must spend the grant appropriately and that is going to be a very particular focus for us in the province.
It is clear that whilst we provide a wide social safety net, the ultimate goal is to eliminate poverty through development, job creation and creating sustainable livelihoods. The eradication of poverty remains the first and most urgent priority. It must form the backdrop of every decision we take. Indeed the challenge is also to transform grants into a development tool. It is what we do beyond grants and pensions that will further determine our success or failure.
For that reason the Western Cape supports the Minister’s announcement of the establishment of a national social security agency, so that the administrative function of paying grants is centrally controlled. This would allow us to pay far more attention to the developmental aspects of our portfolio. And the critical challenge here remains the transformation of our services. There is still a skewness in terms of the budgetary allocation to NGOs, CBOs and old-age homes in the context of previously advantaged NGOs, and that is something that we are now correcting.
In the Western Cape we have also established a special directorate dealing with poverty under my portfolio. We have already prepared a draft framework policy against which we are lining up our expenditure. Not only is this directorate occupied with project funding, but it is also integrally involved in the food security programme, job creation, youth development, community empowerment and research. We have taken the objectives of the integrated food security and utilities programme seriously and therefore we have rolled out a strategy dealing with the newly allocated R20 million for the Western Cape dealing with food security.
However, in the province we have also put in place a special programme around food production for daily subsistence and supplementation. In the current food crisis and through the intervention of the national structures, we were able to distribute food parcels in the Western Cape to approximately 4 000 families, all of which amounted to the value of R4,5 million. On the provincial level we have decided that CBOs and faith-based organisations are important and in that context we have allocated a food parcel each to approximately 14 000 beneficiaries, not from national funds, but provincial funds in this regard.
Lastly, I want to refer to the focus around youth development. This is next month, when we will be dealing with the focus on young people. Indeed, with the 16 June celebrations on the horizon, we are all reminded of the powerful role that the youth played in our struggle and the potential of our youth that can be unlocked today. The Western Cape perceives the youth as agents for change and therefore youth development programmes are of a central nature.
Between 26 May and the end of June this year the focus will be on the protection of children, where the theme talks to Protecting a Child is Everyone’s Business and we will be rolling out a full month-long programme relating to that. We have also allocated R1 million to empower, through the community development worker strategy, one hundred young people in this province, capacitating them, empowering them, and making sure that we send them back into communities to unlock and assist community structures.
We have also been able to look at the Western Cape’s new skills development initiative. Approximately R1,5 million over the next three years has been allocated to develop long-term skills, recreation, readership ability and job prospects for 500 young people in Mitchell’s Plain and Khayelitsha, which is the urban nodal point of the President.
In this year, the year of united action to push back the frontiers of poverty, the first of a decade we must benchmark, and consider the impact of each of our decisions on the basis of how it is going to impact on poverty. This means that the fight against poverty as the biggest priority must resonate even more loudly in Government, particularly in the Public Service. It can no longer be business as usual. The time has come for us to make sure that the sense of urgency is felt throughout. We must inculcate in every sector the ethos that we are still fighting the struggle for true liberation. Let us together, under the banner of united action, push back the frontiers of poverty and look forward to a better life for all. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr D M KGWARE: Thank you, Chair. Being mandated by my chairperson from the select committee and being the last speaker, as well, I think we all need to remind ourselves, as members of the Council, that the ANC-led Government has, since it came into power in 1994, systematically sought to rectify the imbalances of the past. However, in particular in the area of social development, we as the ruling party have set very high goals regarding the final elimination of poverty, which our Minister and all other Government Ministers are required to meet. Therefore, it is our duty as councillors or delegates here to assist in registering the unregistered. That is the bone of contention and the bottom line.
Former President Mandela made his Government’s first commitment to the poor, but especially to children, when he accepted the first draft of the NPA, which is the National Programme of Action for Children in South Africa, in June 1994. The 1999 NPA has been the driving force behind the Government’s programme to alleviate child poverty.
Each year, since 1994, we have re-examined our goals, targets and strategies regarding the poor. We have subsequently made readjustments to meet the current demands, such as with the annual increase in social grants since 1997. We have realised that we need to be constantly on the alert when dealing with the negative ramifications of apartheid, far more than we initially thought.
If we look at the Minister of Finance’s 2002 Budget Speech, as an example of his Government’s commitment to reducing poverty, we can see how he outlined the need to make the eradication of poverty our number one priority, in particular when he said:
We must be clear that the reason we need to combat poverty is because it deprives individuals and, by extension, societies of their full potential. It robs children of their childhood, it condemns adults to illiteracy, it deprives people of access to simple necessities such as safe drinking water, it condones many millions of diseases, it wears down the human spirit and robs people of their dignity.
We must fight poverty because, until it has been overcome, we cannot lay claim to being a compassionate society.
We also heard the President, in his January statement on the occasion of the 91st anniversary of the ANC, determine that -
Our current strategy goal is the reconstruction and development of our country for the eradication of the legacy of colonialism and apartheid. It indicates the task we have to accomplish to reach this strategy goal. Central to this task and our strategic goal is the realisation of objectives of the eradication of poverty.
When our people attained their freedom in 1994, they inherited a country with millions of people affected by poverty. These masses have fought both for their emancipation from oppression and their liberation from poverty and want.
With regard to the social grant, he said:
Our Government views the system of social grants as an important part of our struggle to alleviate and eradicate poverty. Our movement has the responsibility to ensure that all those of our people who are entitled to receiving these grants get what they are entitled to.
In particular, we must bear in mind that those entitled to these grants are among those most vulnerable in our society.
To overcome some of the fragmentation within the Department of Social Development, there has been an intense focus to improve an evenness of service delivery across all provinces. Some of these measures include the implementation of national norms, standards, improvements of the social pensions system, expansion of the social grant administration and management units and the development of assessment tools for disability grants, to assist community panels in the assessment and approval of these grants.
In his 2003 Budget Speech, the Minister of Finance further elaborates on this ANC-led Government’s view on the growth and development strategy to continue to realise the social and economic rights of every South African, and the poor in particular.
In this year’s budget he demonstrates how and why income support to vulnerable people such as the elderly, young children and people with disability continues to be our largest and most effective reduction programme. He has, again, listened to the needs of the most vulnerable, and has consequently increased pensions, disability grants and child support grants, or CSGs.
For children he introduces a three-year implementation plan to increase to 14 years the age for children receiving the child support grants. All provinces will be able to implement this radical new policy shift in funding by virtue of the conditional grant to provinces.
Provinces must, however, bear in mind that the CSG will have no impact on child poverty if the take-up rate is slow. So, while Government does prioritise children in policy, spending patterns and service delivery must also make a positive contribution in order to reduce child poverty.
In addition to the CSG, the Minister of Social Development also introduced another provincial condition applying to funds. The implementation of a new food relief programme was first announced in the medium-term budget policy statement. Its intent is to provide relief in the form of basic foodstuff to households that are struggling to meet their basic nutrition requirements without any means of income or support. An amount of R400 million per year was allocated for implementing the programme over the MTF period. Obviously, children living under these conditions then directly benefit from such a programme.
I would like to conclude by saying that the department’s specific mandate, with regard to this programme, is to ensure that children who are infected with HIV/Aids have access to services that include alternative care, social grants, counselling, food security, provision of clothing, and protection from abuse and other forms of maltreatment. Most provinces have already employed contract workers to speed up the delivery and, according to the department, all official working areas of HIV/Aids have already received the appropriate training.
We, in the ANC, believe that the Department of Social Development has, this year, played a very active role in eradicating poverty and is already a full participant in the year of united action to push back the frontiers of poverty.
The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Thank you, Comrade Chairperson.
First of all, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the House for its co-operation and for the assistance that it has given to us as the department, and we hope that during this budget year this co-operation and assistance will increase in order for all of us to achieve what we want, which is a better life for South Africans as a whole but, more importantly, for the children in this country.
Quite obviously, we do agree that there are a lot of challenges that we still face and one of them, as has been said, is that of human resource development, which is an issue that we ought to be dealing with. Specifically, it is the need for more social workers and their better remuneration within our country as a whole. I hope we will be able to do that, working together as parliamentarians and as Government as a whole and; more importantly, by working with the institutions of higher learning and nongovernmental organisations to ensure that we train the right people, in particular the development workers that we have been talking about. That is one of the decisions reached by the ANC at Stellenbosch, and we ought to ensure that it does take place. We cannot do it alone. We need those institutions to come up with a programme that will be able to assist us in that.
I quite earnestly do agree with the hon Jacobus about the issue that she has raised here. First of all, there is the challenge of orphans under the age of 18. It is something that all of us ought to sit down with to find ways in which we can close that gap that is there, because it is quite a big one. It does raise a lot of problems for us as the Government and as people regarding what we do with our children. Quite obviously, no ordinary loving parent would like to see streetchildren running around the streets of Cape Town without anybody to look after them.
It is our duty as fathers and citizens to do that and to work together to resolve this issue, working very closely with nongovernmental organisations, civil society as a whole and, more importantly, with the communities themselves and church leaders. That will not only lead to the betterment of their conditions, but we will also be creating a better society and communities for our country. That is not necessarily an issue for the Department of Social Development alone, as the hon member said. There is a need for interdepartmental co-operation between the Departments of Health, Education, Housing and Safety and Security to answer some of these questions.
Quite obviously, I agree that there might have been a lot of problems. I know, because I was Minister for the Public Service when we all hounded for a lean Public Service and a better Public Service and all these other things which have proved not to be very, very true.
I think one of the issues that we did take into consideration is that all these theories that come from Europe do not necessarily feed development in our country. We rushed on them with all those propagandists that came from all these other countries and, as the ANC, we dilly-dallied and did not take up the right positions. I think that the position that was taken by Cosatu was right and it is becoming clearer today that we do not need to cut down on the Public Service. We need to increase it. We need to train people and ensure that they have got the right skills so that we are able to deliver to our people as we are supposed to be delivering. I think we ought to look into that and not be shy as the ANC to answer these questions.
It is 10 years now since that has been there. We are in the process of reviewing our policies as the Government so that we can see what achievements we have made and where the mistakes and weaknesses are. One of them was that we listened to this propaganda from the so-called theorists that came from very far and we just accepted their messages without asking questions. I think we ought to go back and look into that.
With regard to many other things, quite obviously there are a lot of questions that have been raised - the issue of the task team in the Eastern Cape and the issue of fraud in general. These are issues that all of us ought to address, and I am very pleased that quite a number of members of Parliament have come to tell me, yesterday, today and during our caucus, that we have been able to find people who are transgressing, and, in fact, who are committing criminal acts of fraud and misrepresentation, which we have put forward to the police. We hope that the police will be able to cope and bring these people to justice.
Some of these issues I think are caused by the type of Public Service we had. Quite obviously, in 1994 there were many compromises that were made, which we agreed to for the sake of continuity and stability. We took all the rotten apples from the former apartheid government and the Bantustans and we put them all together in order to continue. During that process that behaviour and that culture has infected even the new people that are supposed to have been purer and more caring than the others. I think this is something that we ought to be looking into. We need to ensure that such people are out of the Public Service.
Also, I am a little bit surprised - although I think I should not be surprised - by the report that teachers are also involved in the issue, as the MEC for the Eastern Cape has said, of robbing and committing fraud with regard to the child support grant. I think it is a horrible thing because, at this time, we are depending mostly on teachers within the educational institutions to be part and parcel of ensuring that all those children that are in their schools are integrated and get the child support grant until the age of 18. In the next five to seven years, we will be depending on them. If they are involved in this, I think it is something that we ought to look into, and we will have to talk to the relevant Minister and MECs.
With regard to the issue of comprehensive social security, quite obviously we are dealing with that. We are hoping that we will be able to come up with some answers before the end of this year, but it is quite a complicated issue. It is not a question, as I said, of giving R100 to everybody. It is broader than that. It ought to encompass the question of unemployment, roads, accidents and the national health policy. These things do not necessarily exist at the moment. They need a lot of expertise. There is progress that we can report but there are still a lot of challenges. Research also needs to be looked into. The issue of temporary disability is a tricky one and somebody even asked that we should dissolve it. It will not be so easy to do so. We are supposed to be a caring Government. We are supposed to look after the weakest of the weak and we ought to do that but also avoid fraud as much as possible.
Regarding the cross-border problems that have been mentioned with regard to Limpopo and Mpumalanga, the Free State and the Eastern Cape, we ought to ensure that it is only people who are entitled to the grants, citizens of South Africa, that are getting them. When it comes to funding for non- profit-making organisations, it is quite true that I raised that matter. The money that we are giving to civil society, as a whole, is not enough. The crises that we are facing that were left by apartheid need the strengthening of civil society, but more importantly it needs to be strengthened in the rural areas where they do not exist. We ought to use their power, ability and capacity to advance our poverty alleviation programmes and the struggle and fight against HIV/Aids within our society. They need more money and training than they are getting at the moment. We have to do that all together.
Addressing the question of social workers is something that I have started with. Their pay and numbers have been noted and I think we should work on it to ensure that we provide further training for them as opposed to how they are being trained at the moment.
The imbizos are our only weapon to reach out to our people, and we hope that through imbizos and constituency offices we will continue to work closely with society so that they tell us what is wrong and what our weaknesses are so that we are able to resolve them. People will also be able to evaluate the work that Government and members of Parliament are doing within society.
Malunga namanyundululu aseMzimkhulu kaMnu Sogoni, ndivile. Ndiyivile inkosi yam. Ukuba ngaba ingandinika igama lale nkosikazi kunye nesicelo sakhe kwakunye nazo zonke ezinye izinto zayo, sakuzama ukukhangela ukuba singenza ntoni na. Imali leya yona yeyakhe. Asiyoyalaa mntu uyivalileyo. Kunjalonje kufuneka bayikhuphe loo mali bamnike kwangaloo mini, isusela kuloo mini wasenza ngayo isicelo de kube lolu suku akulo ngoku. Ndicinga ukuba masisebenzisane ngolo hlobo. Ukuba ungayithumela nje kum eofisini, ndicinga ukuba singayisombulula kamsinyane loo ngxaki. Baninzi abantu abanjengaye. Baninzi. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[With regards to the atrocities committed at Mzimkhulu, I have heard you Mr Sogoni. I have heard you, Sir. If you could please give me the name of the woman and her application and all the other accompanying documents, we will try and see what we can do. That money is hers, most definitely. It is not that of the person who has stopped it. They must give her the money, starting from when she made the application until today. I think we should look at it that way. Kindly send it to my office, and I think we could solve the matter very quickly. You find many such cases. Many of them.]
With regard to the MEC for the Western Cape, Mr Marius Fransman, we do understand and support what you are doing and I think we should be able to work together specifically on that Urban Renewal Programme for Mitchell’s Plain and Khayelitsha. We should take about a day or two to go to those places and invite as many of these members as possible to be part and parcel of the campaign. We can do it. There are so many members of Parliament, specifically from the ANC, who are sitting here and can do a lot of work. I think we could make use of them as much as possible.
In regard to the hon Kgware’s contribution, we do understand there are quite a number of problems there. These are not our policies as individuals. They are not the President’s policies or mine, but they are policies of the ANC, the liberation movement. We only elucidate and ensure that everybody understands them. That means they do not end with the President, a Minister, an MEC or members of Parliament. They should be carried to the people. They should be part and parcel of our lives. They should be about how we react individually as citizens and as cadres of our movement towards resolving some of the problems that face our people - problems of poverty, ignorance and disease, specifically HIV/Aids, in our country, which is to a very large extent a great challenge, and we should do everything we possibly can to resolve it.
Furthermore, I would like to repeat again that the state of the social
security system in this country and the state of welfare services is more
dependent on how each and everyone of us contributes towards that to
resolve the pain that the majority of our people are feeling. Today they
are able to say, I am hungry'' to a Government that they themselves voted
for. They were unable to say that before 1994, because they did not
recognise that government. Now they do, and they can saysiyalamba’’ and,
as members of Parliament, we should be pleased that they are able to say
that by articulating their problems so that they can be assisted as much as
possible.
Personally, I would really love it if members of Parliament and those from the NCOP were able to pinpoint some of these public servants who are not doing their jobs so that we can deal with them. The issue of children is very central in that. There are many things that we have been able to say and do but I think that even that issue of children is something we as the ANC need to review.
We agreed in principle that we would encourage that children be looked after within their communities. We said we would discourage the building of orphanages. However, I am asking you now, as members of Parliament, to review that in the face of the crisis that is in front of us today. We have to review those positions. Is it not time, specifically with reference to children and perhaps elderly people as well, that we go back and, without running away from the issue of using and appealing to our communities and our homes for home-based care, build some orphanages and make sure that communities look after them and resource them in a manner that we can be proud of. That is something I am asking of you. Look into it, please. There are real problems out there.
I am not sure about the way that we dealt with those issues, which was to throw away what was there before. There were a number of orphanages before. I know, because I grew up here and they no longer exist. I am wondering whether we should not go back to churches and other people and say that we could give them money if they looked after those children. We could even build orphanages among our communities rather than let children be abused or remain at home. I know there might be problems there, but I think we should not just close our eyes to that, but rather resolve these issues.
In conclusion, I think we have been concentrating mostly on the rural areas and rightly so, but we ought not to forget that there are people in urban areas too. There are children that are hungry; old people who are being abused and there is the issue of HIV/Aids. All these people do need access to the grants that we give and access to welfare services. It is in that spirit that as the ANC, on the 1st of June 2003, we hope to go to Port Elizabeth because of the crises that have taken place in that office to try to find ways in which we could assist those communities to register their children and look after their elderly people. We are working on that, and we ask churches to be part and parcel and lead that process and pinpoint areas in which we can interact. After that, we will possibly move to Durban where there is also a crisis and then visit other areas like Bloemfontein, and Tshwane or the East Rand. With those few words, Madam Chairperson, I thank you. [Applause.]
The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I thank you very much, hon Minister. I think we are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. I also think that it is the responsibility of every member of this House to roll up their sleeves and help to ensure that our people have a better life. Thank you, once more. Thank you, also, for the debate.
Debate concluded.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS - SOUTHERN AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY PROTOCOL ON EXTRADITION
Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon members, as a country we firmly believe in the need for, and are strongly committed to pursue and implement, a comprehensive integrated and holistic approach to the question of peace, stability and security, which includes and reflects local, regional and international dimensions. Furthermore, we believe that justice and international law should guide the relations between nations.
In the same way as our economic development depends on growing regional and international economic co-operation, so will our security depend on growing regional and international co-operation. This need is dictated by the emergence of non-state actors as important players on the global stage, such as transnational drug and organised crime cartels and the dangers posed by economic crimes cause by the increasing weakening of states in the developing world, as national barriers are gradually broken down in the face of global forces such as transnational corporations and speculative capital.
The only way we can protect ourselves as a country and region from the negative fallout of these developments is if we work together and co- operate more closely around criminal matters, including extradition. Such co-operation is becoming even more important as we seek to build peace and security as a foundation stone for the African renaissance.
Extradition especially addresses the attempts of countries to resolve crimes in which the offender from one country commits a crime in his country and takes refuge in another country, or the offender from one country commits a crime in another country and slips back into his or her own country.
Not all countries have extradition treaties with others, which make it difficult to bring criminals to justice. South Africa is therefore fortunate to be able to ratify this Protocol on Extradition with our SADC neighbours, in addition to the other bilateral extradition treaties already concluded with other countries.
In today’s world of transnational crime and international criminals, bringing fugitives to justice is a major problem. Modern communications and modes of travel make it possible for the criminals to have their bases in different countries and to operate worldwide.
To prevent them from broadening the scope of their activities and spreading their tentacles throughout our SADC region, we need to prepare ourselves to challenge these criminals who recognise no borders, no laws and no governments. Any delay on our part in reversing this serious menace will not only raise the cost in terms of human lives, but also set back the progress we have made in terms of reconstructing and developing our region after years of war and destruction.
To succeed in this enterprise, SADC countries have to be fully equipped to chase, track down and apprehend fugitives and bring them to justice. This Protocol on Extradition will make an important contribution in enabling us to meet this challenge. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR OF: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON SECURITY AND CONSTITUTIONAL AFFAIRS - SOUTHERN AFRICAN DEVELOPMENT COMMUNITY PROTOCOL ON MUTUAL LEGAL ASSISTANCE IN CRIMINAL MATTERS
Mr P A MATTHEE: Chairperson, firstly hearty congratulations on your election as Chairperson of Committees. We know that you are eminently suitable for this position and that you will do well. We look forward to working with you in your new capacity.
I have the honour today on behalf of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs to request this House to approve that South Africa ratifies this protocol in terms of section 231 of the Constitution. It is common cause, Chair, that we in the SADC region are all determined to fight crime with all the might that we have. I will just very briefly set out the scope of application and obligation to provide mutual legal assistance in terms of this protocol.
In terms of article 2 thereof, the state parties shall in accordance with this protocol provide each other with the widest possible measure of mutual legal assistance in criminal matters. Mutual legal assistance is any assistance given by the requested state and respective investigations, prosecutions or proceedings in the requesting state in a criminal matter.
Criminal matters include investigations, prosecutions or proceedings relating to a number of offences. Assistance shall be provided without regard to whether the conduct which is the subject of investigation would constitute an offence under the laws of the requested state. And assistance to be provided includes the serving of documents, the provision of information, search and seizure, taking evidence and all other matters that go along to ensure a successful prosecution.
It is intended solely for mutual legal assistance between the state parties in the SADC region. It is also important to note, Chair, that this protocol shall not apply to the arrest or detention of a person with a view to the extradition of that person or to the enforcement in the requested state of criminal judgements imposed in the requesting state, except to the extent committed by the laws of the requested state or the transfer of persons in custody to serve sentences.
The Chief State Law Advisor of International Law and the Chief State Law Advisor have indicated that no provisions of this protocol are in conflict with international law or domestic law. Once South Africa has ratified this protocol, an instrument of ratification will be deposited with the executive secretary of the SADC.
The co-operation in terms of this protocol is therefore a mechanism to help eliminate cross-border crimes in this region and to see to it that criminals in the region are prosecuted successfully. We all hope and trust that this protocol will greatly assist all the SADC countries to achieve this goal. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the Report be adopted.
IN FAVOUR OF: Eastern Cape, Free State, Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, Northern Cape, North West, Western Cape.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constritution. The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Before we conclude, I just want to make this last announcement. All chairpersons of committees are requested to meet with the Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP in his office after adjournment.
The Council adjourned at 16:59. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
WEDNESDAY, 14 MAY 2003
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Minister of Housing:
Report and Financial Statements of the Department of Housing for 2001-
2002, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements of the Department of Housing - Vote 16 for 2001-2002 [RP 152-
2002].
THURSDAY, 15 MAY 2003
ANNOUNCEMENTS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
- Introduction of Bills:
(1) The Minister of Finance:
(i) Exchange Control Amnesty and Amendment of Taxation Laws
Bill [B 26 - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 77).
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Finance of
the National Assembly, as well as referral to the Joint Tagging
Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160, on
15 May 2003.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
the Bill may be submitted to the Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
within three parliamentary working days.
TABLINGS:
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:
Papers:
- The Speaker and the Chairperson:
The Fourth Economic and Social Rights Report of the South African Human
Rights Commission for 2000-2002.
- The Minister of Finance:
Strategic Plan of the National Treasury for 2003-2006 [RP 39-2003].
- The Minister of Social Development:
Report and Financial Statements of the Disaster Relief Fund Board for
2001-2002, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
Statements of the Disaster Relief Fund for 2001-2002 [RP 32-2003].
- The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development:
Proclamation No R.40 published in Government Gazette Number 24804 dated
30 April 2003: Extension of the period of operation of sections 51 and
52 of the Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1977 (Act No 105 of 1977), made
in terms of section 53(2) of the Criminal Law Amendment Act, 1977 (Act
No 105 of 1977).
- The Minister of Health:
Report and Financial Statements of the Compensation Commissioner for
Occupational Diseases for 2001-2002, including the Report of the
Auditor-General on the Financial Statements of the Mines and Works
Compensation Fund for 2001-2002.