FRIDAY, 6 JUNE 2003 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 9:31.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS see col 000.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Does any member wish to move a motion without notice? [Interjections.] What is the problem? Is it because it’s Friday and everybody wants to go home? [Interjections.] No motions on Friday? Okay, we will proceed then.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 28 - Environmental Affairs and Tourism:

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Minister, I could see that they had been holding you hostage before you came into the House. They did not even want to allow you to come in here. Everybody wanted to have a chat with you. I hope that they will have enough time to chat with you after the debate. But, I can see that they are in a hurry to go home as it is Friday.

The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AND TOURISM: Deputy Chairperson, actually it was Rev Chabaku who was having a confidential discussion with me about a certain function that took place last night. However, I don’t think that it would be proper for me to reveal the contents of that discussion in a formal sitting. But, later on, I will be able to tell you what we were talking about.

Chairperson, hon members, MECs present here and guests, in September last year, leaders of the modern world stood together in Johannesburg and adopted a far-reaching global programme for sustainable development. This was a watershed moment for South Africa. We have been widely acclaimed for negotiating the Johannesburg Plan of Implementation. It is visionary, profound and practical. It gives hope and promise to all the struggling and marginalised people of the world. It also challenges us, as South Africans, to strive to meet the targets set in the plan of implementation.

In our own country, sustainable development is the unifying thread that runs through all of our work. We are nearly 10 years into South Africa’s democratic order, and we can now state with confidence that our work and collective efforts have paid off. Our home-grown version of sustainable development, the RDP, has delivered benefits for millions upon millions of South Africans. We have made gains that benefit the poorest of communities. In the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, through decisive interventions in the industries that we deal with - tourism, fishing, conservation industries, environmental industries and the marine and coastal industries - we have been able to realise the implementation of sustainable development programmes, which stand to benefit citizens of this country presently and future generations.

Provinces have been key partners in the realisation of many of those objectives. This partnership was probably best demonstrated in the successful hosting of the World Summit on Sustainable Development in which the Gauteng province and the Johannesburg Metro played an outstanding role. Therefore, I would like to give special recognition to the province of Gauteng and the Johannesburg Metro for their contribution and enthusiasm in the preparations for and hosting of the summit.

The Gauteng province’s Greening of the Summit project set a new standard in the minimisation of the environmental impact of large events and conferences. Members of the Council should be aware that that was in fact a world standard. It sets a new standard, internationally, for the organising of big events in an environmentally friendly manner. [Applause.] Other provinces and organised local government contributed significantly to the Government negotiating team, and in the organisation of side and parallel events.

I think that we should also give Johannesburg recognition for having successfully used this great global gathering to reinvent and brand the city as a world city among the most advanced. Perceptions of the city have changed dramatically. It is now a cool and safe place with a highly efficient modern infrastructure, and one which has warm and friendly citizens. I think that this is a wonderful example of how big events can be used to turn around negative perceptions of our country, or of a particular city.

According to an independent study by the Bureau of Market Research, Ikwla Structured Financial Products and Urban Econ, the WSSD injected over R8 billion into the South African economy. This is compared to an investment of about R620 million which was contributed jointly by Government, the private sector, international sponsors and donor agencies. The latter two contributors, that is international sponsors and donors, contributed about 60% of the R620 million capital injection which went into the organising of the summit. The summit’s black economic empowerment target was set at 30%. The records indicate that that was exceeded, and in the end 48% of what was spent went to black economic empowerment entities.

I must perhaps just repeat what I said in the National Assembly yesterday, namely that there is also tremendous progress in the procurement patterns of the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism. We have now reached a point where 40% of procurement goes to BEE companies. The director- general has set himself a target that by the end of this year we will be in a situation in which 50% of all the department’s procurement would go to BEE companies. I think that the director-general and the department should be congratulated for that. [Applause.]

The spirit of co-operation is also being carried forward in our preparations for another equally significant international event. From 8 to 17 September this year, South Africa will be hosting the World Parks Congress in Durban. This is an international congress that takes place only once every 10 years. We have been requested to host this event in recognition of our successful park management system and transfrontier park initiatives. It is expected that about 2 300 participants, including experts in the field of protected area management from around the world, will attend this occasion.

Under the leadership of SA National Parks, and working with conservation agencies in all provinces, we have already set in place processes that will ensure a successful conference and, once again, excellent logistics. The province of KwaZulu-Natal and eThekwini Metro will play a particularly important role in this regard. Part of the organisation of the congress will include pre-event and post-event tours across the country. With the experience that we gathered from the WSSD, and a confirmation of South Africa’s ability through events like the recent Cricket World Cup, we are assured that the World Parks Congress will be nothing but a success.

Our working together in the spirit of co-operative governance has allowed us to contribute to the achievement of our objective of a better life for all. The MECs for environment, conservation and tourism deserve particular credit for making the environment and tourism Minmecs dynamic and effective vehicles for co-operation. In addition, through the committee for environmental co-ordination, we are able to report significant progress in the promotion of integration and co-ordination of environmental functions between national and provincial governments. As a result of this, the suite of draft legislation that we will table this year further aligns the work of organs of state. This includes legislation on biological diversity and protected areas, and the two Bills which have already been tabled in Parliament - as you may be aware. It also includes additional legislation on coastal resources, pollution, waste and air quality. These instruments will provide legal protection for our country’s environment, promote sustainable development and assist us in meeting many of the targets that we negotiated at the WSSD.

For the first time, national and provincial departments have put in place a comprehensive set of environmental management plans. On the department’s website is now available the first cycle of gazetted environmental implementation and management plans of scheduled national and provincial government departments. You will also find, on the website, an alignment report that is focused on some of the key environmental impact and managing sectors.

We have now approached the office of the Auditor-General to assist with the development of a mechanism that will enable us to monitor compliance with environmental management and implementation plans. In this regard, it is quite clear that the public sector has to take a lead, otherwise we run the risk of lagging behind the private sector. As you would be aware, the JSE Securities Exchange will be introducing a sustainability index later this year. I think that it is about time that Government departments themselves began to look more closely at their own environmental management.

Following on our success in the implementation of the new regulations on plastic bags, provinces and national Government departments are co- ordinating efforts around tackling other waste streams. We will shortly be taking over the function of regulating landfills from the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, and we will transfer some of these responsibilities to the provinces. Before any of the MECs makes the point, I should say that the resources will follow the functions. We are collaborating in tackling the serious backlogs in municipal waste management and recycling.

At this stage, I think that it would be appropriate to congratulate the winners of the 2002 Cleanest Town Competition. I am pleased that representatives of the cleanest towns are here with us today. For the metro category, the 2002 winner of the Cleanest Town Competition was the Nelson Mandela Metro and we have a representative, on behalf of the mayor, who is here with us today. Congratulations! [Applause.]

I happened to be in the Nelson Mandela Metro on Sunday to meet with stakeholders in the fishing industry, and also to attend a wonderful ANC banquet that evening. I don’t think that I need to report on that function here. [Interjections.] I do have the right. It was a very well-organised function. It made me very proud to be a member of the ANC, and I was amazed at the extent of integrated and across-the-board support that the ANC has in that metro. But, that’s not the topic for today.

What I wanted to say was that I had an opportunity to drive through the metro, and I was just amazed at how sprightly and clean that city looks. I have no doubt that it is one of the cleanest cities in our country today. [Applause.] I think that we need to congratulate Mayor Faku because he has taken it upon himself as a personal mission to turn around the image of that town. It no longer looks like a town in decay, a forgotten city of South Africa; it looks like a city that’s going places. In fact, I think that it is going places. As you know, tourism has picked up dramatically in the Nelson Mandela Metro. I have told them that they should not be shy to make full use of the name that they have. There is no other city that can have a wonderful name like Nelson Mandela. They should use that for branding, and to attract tourists.

In the local municipality segment, the 2002 winner of the cleanest town was the Newcastle local municipality. We have present here, His Worship, Mayor Dlamini, the mayor of Newcastle. Congratulations! [Applause.] Newcastle is a town with an extremely rich history, and I think tourism is again an important hope for a town like Newcastle, taking into account that some of the other industrial activities have been on the decline over the past few years. In the district municipality category, last year’s winner was the Eden District Municipality. We have present here Councillor Taute - he probably has gone out to wash his hands in the meantime. Congratulations on that win. [Applause.] In September this year, we will be announcing the winners of the second round of the Cleanest Town Competition. The competition is proving to be a successful campaign in mobilising municipalities and communities around the national waste management strategy. One of the most far-reaching interventions around co-operative governance in the last decade has been the introduction of the system of environmental impact assessments. Inevitably, as we are in the process of the reconstruction and development of our country, we are bound to impact on our environment and natural resources. That impact might be positive or negative, hence the importance of regulating the development and its impact on the environment.

Some environmental impact assessments, or EIAs, are considered at a national level, but the vast majority of development applications are processed by provinces. During this past year, my department has processed 88 EIAs, which comprised projects estimated at a value of R43 billion. These include the N4 Platinum Toll Highway, which will of course link the west coast of Southern Africa with the east coast of Southern Africa; the Coega Industrial Development Project and the Coega Harbour; the construction of an underground natural gas pipeline from Mozambique’s Temane and Pande gas fields to Secunda in Mpumalanga; the development of support infrastructure within the Great Limpopo Transfrontier Park, and 29 applications related to Government’s poverty relief programme.

The EIA system is an essential part of the development and investment process, and the above projects give some idea of the scale and value of many of the projects we consider.

Two important projects are presently under consideration by the department. The one is the N2 highway through the Wild Coast, which the South African Roads Agency intends to build, which would bring an investment of about R2 billion into an area that really needs jobs. But the department is considering that. I do not know whether they will allow it or not. As you know, it is not the decision of the Minister, it is the decision of the officials. The other project that the department is considering is the pebble-bed modular reactor. This is an application from Eskom Enterprises, of course supported by the Department of Minerals and Energy, for the construction of an experimental module of the pebble-bed modular reactor at Koeberg. Again, I do not know what the department will say, but I understand that the department will be making its decision known on this matter quite shortly.

In the amendments to the National Environmental Management Act, Chapter 5, which I will be tabling shortly, I intend to address some of the shortcomings in the EIA system that exist presently. Amongst others, we will enable Government to charge a moderate fee for the processing of EIAs. We will establish a professional body of EIA practitioners. One of the difficulties we have had since the introduction of NEMA is that all sorts of people have posed as environmental experts and this will now be regulated in some way or another.

We will allow for the delegation of certain EIA functions to municipalities which have the capacity to administer them, and we will revise the overall allocation of EIA functions between the three spheres of government, now that we have quite a lot of experience in this field. We are also backing this up with extensive work on training and capacity-building, and the installation of a country-wide electronic processing system.

Provinces and national Government also collaborate closely in the fields of biodiversity management and conservation. We are similarly bringing substantial legislation before this House that will improve the system of co-operative governance in this field. The Protected Areas Bill was published for public comment towards the end of 2002, followed shortly by the Biodiversity Bill and the first NEMA amendment Bill on compliance and enforcement.

During this period information seminars were held across the country, and stakeholders were invited to provide written comments. I am now proud that these Bills have finally been tabled in Parliament for the consideration of this House and the National Assembly, and of the tremendous amount of hard work on the part of the select committee.

These Bills deal with very important aspects of our heritage. South Africa boasts something like 403 protected areas, that is terrestrial protected areas, totalling 6,6 million hectares, which is about 5,4% of the total land surface area of the country. Twenty-two of these protected areas are national parks, and their total area makes up about 53% of the protected area estate as a whole. A further 14% are state forests in terms of the National Forests Act.

Provinces are responsible for just about 30% of South Africa’s protected area estate. I asked the department to do some sums in this regard, and I think the Council will find this information interesting. The South African National Parks, which is responsible for 53% of our protected areas, gets an allocation from Government every year - that includes and this year’s allocation - in the region of R78 million. That is the subsidy that SA National Parks gets.

The nine provinces, collectively, are then responsible for 30% of the protected areas, as opposed to the 53% at national level. For this 30% the provinces allocate to the parks authorities in the provinces R600 million, as opposed to the R78 million that SA National Parks receives. This raises a number of questions in my mind. You will recall that two years ago Government released a document entitled: A Bioregional Approach to South Africa’s Protected Areas.

In that document we set a goal of expanding the area under protection from 5,4% of the surface area to 8% by the year 2010. In the same document we set two further principles for improving the management of our protected areas by consolidating the existing areas, where possible, and rationalising their management. I now believe that it is time to take a long, hard look at conservation management in South Africa as a whole and apply the same principles. I do not believe that we can afford the number of management agencies we have in South Africa.

Let us not forget that the allocation of powers and functions to provinces was negotiated in the constitution-making process. At times, as part of horse-trading, the final outcome does not in all cases reflect logic or what is in the best interests of the country. These were compromises the ANC made with the NP at the time, and the DP. The latter parties basically argued for as long a list of provincial powers as possible, regardless of whether it made sense or not. Unfortunately, some amongst us now regard as sacrosanct that which came into being because of the attempts of apartheid parties to fragment governance in our country.

Ironically, the New NP and the DA, now that they do not control any province, have shifted away from arguing for more federalism. In practical terms, can South Africa afford 10 parks boards? Does it make sense for a province to spend enormous resources on provincial parks for very little gain? There is, of course, nothing unconstitutional about a parks board in each province, but the real disservice to conservation and to citizens who should derive benefits from parks, is the establishment of financially unstable models. A system which makes conservation compete for provincial funds, with the glaring health care, education and social welfare needs, without any obvious benefits like economic growth and job creation, is not sustainable and will fail.

A situation where the same taxpayer - because, bear in mind, there are no provincial and national taxpayers; provinces do not raise revenue - pays almost eight times more to maintain provincial parks, compared to what he or she pays to maintain national parks. This is, frankly speaking, an unsustainable model for conservation.

Along with our national and provincial parks, the country’s four World Heritage Sites, based in the Western Cape, Gauteng and KwaZulu-Natal, are among the more important tourism attractions. Our rich history, biodiversity and cultures enabled us to make significant progress in this regard. We have now submitted proposals for four additional sites. These are Mapungubwe in Limpopo, the Vredefort Dome in the Free State, the Cape Floristic Region in the Western Cape and once again Makapan’s Valley in Limpopo.

It is our view that conservation and economic development must go hand in hand. Our conservation areas, rather than being a burden on taxpayers, must contribute to job creation and socioeconomic upliftment if conservation is to have any real future. Our natural heritage must continue to serve, also as a foundation for the tourism industry.

Ever since 1994 we have experienced growth in the tourism sector, a confirmation that our international marketing campaign is working. As the fastest-growing tourism destination in the world, South Africans have indeed become a tourism nation. The World Travel and Tourism Council is of the view that tourism contributes to jobs for about 7% of South Africa’s workforce. The World Tourism Organisation projects that by 2011 the tourism industry will contribute 11% to the global GDP, and account for 19% of total employment, which will be more than 260 million.

This should make us, as a country, want to regard the present growth in tourism as the start of what is possible. What is really possible is for travel and tourism in South Africa to contribute at least 12% to the country’s GDP, and that should be the aim that we should be working towards.

I reported last year that Minmec has agreed that the annual celebration of World Tourism Day on 27 September must rotate among provinces. Following celebrations which were hosted by the Eastern Cape in 2001, and celebrations held at Bakgatla Village in the North West last year, we will this year observe World Tourism Day in the Northern Cape. Provinces are again encouraged to join national Government in celebrating our successes and gains in tourism during tourism month by organising celebrations throughout the month in their localities - celebrations aimed at raising awareness and sharing information with the public.

Another important area of co-operation with provinces is around coastal management. This year I still hope to table legislation which, for the first time, introduces a comprehensive system of co-operative governance for the coast. I would like to express gratitude to the provinces for their assistance presently with the management of our coastline on a delegated basis, and their contributions to the functions of compliance and enforcement.

Greater stability, transformation and growth can now be observed in our fishing sector. Even sceptics are starting to realise that it is only Government’s carefully constructed allocation system that will provide sustainable livelihoods for all in this sector. In fact, today we are envied around the world for our extremely well-managed marine resources. We are also proud of the fact that not a single foreign country now has permits to fish in our waters. [Applause.] During the apartheid era the total allowable catch for the biggest fishery, the hake trawl sector, was divided among only six white-owned companies. Today 73% of rights holders are majority black-owned. I must say that this does not translate to 73% of the total allowable catch, because many of the majority black-owned companies are much smaller than the bigger companies. But this is a general trend in most fisheries, and we will be extending this work into a number of new fisheries this year, including squid.

We will restructure the system of abalone rights in order to put this valuable resource more directly into the hands of local communities. We will also extend our work on subsistence fishing this year to bring further benefits to coastal communities, particularly women.

As I indicated in our debate last year, the illegal poaching of abalone continues to be a major concern. I am, of course, happy that over the past few months there has been a major crackdown on trespassers in this sector through a partnership between the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, the Department of Justice, the SAPS, the SANDF, the Scorpions and other special operations units. We have started to break down syndicates that have been the cause of the unjustified plunder of our natural resources.

As you are aware, South Africa’s very first Environmental Court is now up and running and functioning in Hermanus, aimed largely at poachers. Members of the Council should be told, perhaps, that according to the head of prosecutions in the Western Cape, Frank Kahn, this is not only the first Environmental Court in the country, but is in fact the first court of its kind in the world. [Applause.]

You would remember the conviction of Hout Bay Fisheries and the R40 million fine that was imposed, which made legal history in the judicial system in this country; and last year, also, the fining of a foreign vessel, the Golden Eagle, of half a million rand. All of this indicates that we are getting on top of the monitoring and surveillance challenge.

The tide has turned. We are together making the environmental, tourism and fishing sectors deliver real and tangible benefits to people and communities across the country. At the same time we are building a patriotism and unity around these areas of our work that are truly helping and contributing towards building our nation. We are determined to succeed, and succeed we will.

I would like to again report to the NCOP that this country has a dedicated team of MECs for environment and tourism. They are women and men who do not hesitate to challenge national Government in the interests of their provinces, and each one has always placed the interests of the country first. It is a team I have received co-operation from, and one I truly enjoy working with.

My thanks also to the team in the Ministry, in the department and in the institutions linked to the department for their dedication and patriotism. Thank you very much also to Rev Moatshe and members of the select committee for your support and dedication. I look forward to working with you, particularly on the processing of the important pieces of legislation that we have this year, and hope that I can rely on the same level of support and dedication that you have always shown. Thank you. [Applause.]

Rev P MOATSHE: Hon Minister, you are the tiger of our forests, mountains and valleys. You have the capacity to do the running backed by your department. I am talking now on behalf of the select committee that enjoys working with you. You give us joy and happiness at all times.

I also want, in particular, to speak of Francois Rogers in your office. He is a sharp, dedicated young man who responds any time, night or day. Thanks also to the DG, his deputy and their team at all levels of responsibility. [Applause.]

We also want to take this opportunity to thank the MECs from the provinces and chairpersons of standing committees that co-operate promptly whenever we interact and communicate with them. I want to thank the members of this House. I would love to conclude by saying, Minister, you have set the pace for this Budget Vote. You have said it all. We just have to fill the gaps here and there.

In the Scriptures, in the Book of Genesis, it says that God created all things. He created the trees, the vegetation, the mountains, the fish in the waters, the birds in the air and the animals, the big five. He then said, ``You shall rule over them and conserve them.’’ [Interjections.]

The right to a clean environment and sustainable development is fundamental and closely connected to the right to health and wellbeing. There is a strong connection between the quality of the environment and the health of the people living in and/or exposed to those environments.

The responsibility for the provision of a safe and healthy environment is outlined in a range of legislation and in the different sections of the Constitution. Section 24 of the Constitution provides that:

Everyone has the right -

(a) to an environment that is not harmful to their health or wellbeing; and

(b) to have the environment protected, for the benefit of present and future generations, through reasonable legislative and other measures that -

 (i)    prevent pollution and ecological degradation;


 (ii)   promote conservation; and


 (iii)  secure ecologically sustainable development and use  of  natural
       resources  while  promoting  justifiable  economic  and   social
       development.

The Constitution further places an obligation in terms of section 152(1)(b) and (d) on the part of local government as stipulated in sections 4(2)(d) and 4(2)(i), and 73(1) and (2) of the Municipal Systems Act, Act 32 of 2000, to ensure that the right to a clean and healthy environment is fulfilled.

One of the greatest challenges facing South Africa and the rest of the world is to improve the quality of human life for both the present and the future generations through sustainable development. The principles of the sustainability of the environment encompass the notion of intergenerational equity. The harm to the environment affects the present, as well as the future generations.

In order to attain the principles outlined in the Constitution, the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism has made great advances in attempting to ensure that the right to improve the quality of human life for both the present and future generations, through sustainable development, is attainable. This paper will provide an overview of the functions of the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, the programmes and projects undertaken, and its expenditure trends.

Ek kom nou by die strategiese oorsig en noodsaaklike beleidsontwikkeling. Die algehele visie van die Departement van Omgewingsake en Toerisme is om ‘n beter toekoms vir alle Suid-Afrikaners deur middel van groei in toerisme en die effektiewe bestuur en beskerming van die land se omgewing te verseker.

Die Departement van Handel en Nywerheid bestuur die ontwikkeling en implementering van beleid wat drie ingeskakelde komponente van Suid-Afrika se sosio-ekonomiese ontwikkeling beheer, naamlik toerisme, die visbedryf en die bestuur van omgewingsake. Die departement probeer verseker dat die potensiaal vir ekonomiese groei binne hierdie drie sektore gemaksimaliseer word. Die balans tussen omgewingsbewaring en ontwikkeling word beheer, en waar moontlik … (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.) [I now come to the strategic overview and essential policy development. The overall vision of the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism is to ensure a better future for all South Africans by means of growth in tourism and the effective management and protection of the environment of the country.

The Department of Trade and Industry manages the development and implementation of policy that controls three interwoven components of the socioeconomic development of South Africa, namely tourism, the fishing industry and the management of environmental affairs. The department tries to ensure that the potential for economic growth within these three sectors is maximalised. The balance between the conservation and development of the environment is controlled, and where possible …]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Order! There is no interpretation. I am not too sure what is happening. Can the interpreters please interpret for us? Continue, Rev Moatshe.

Rev P MOATSHE: Deputy Chairperson, from where should I continue?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): From where you stopped. [Laughter.]

Rev P MOATSHE: From where I stopped?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): Yes.

Eerw P MOATSHE: Die Departement van Handel en Nywerheid bestuur die ontwikkeling en implementering van beleid wat drie ingeskakelde komponente van Suid-Afrika se sosio-ekonomiese ontwikkeling beheer, naamlik toerisme, die visbedryf en die bestuur van omgewingsake. Die departement probeer verseker dat die potensiaal vir ekonomiese groei binne hierdie drie sektore gemaksimaliseer word. Die balans tussen omgewingsbewaring en ontwikkeling word bestuur, en waar moontlik, word ontwikkeling in toerisme en die visbedryf, en omgewingsbewaring beheer sodat hulle mekaar komplementeer en ekonomiese groei stimuleer.

Die volgehoue pogings om Suid-Afrika internasionaal te bemark het merkwaardige groei in hierdie sektor teweeg gebring. Bygesê, as gevolg van die armoedeverligtingsfonds, is meer as R232 miljoen bestee op toerismeprojekte, die ontwikkeling van infrastrukture en produkte regoor die land. Daar word intensief gekyk na projekte om die toerismebedryf beide op plaaslike en nasionale vlak te ontwikkel. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Die Wet op Lewende Mariene Hulpbronne bevat breë wetgewing op die visserybedryf. Die kwotaproses in die visbedryf is hergestruktureer, terwyl transformasie in die bedryf ontwikkeling toon. Drie en sewentig persent van alle permitte in die stokvissektor is byvoorbeeld grootliks in swart besit. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Rev P MOATSHE: The Department of Trade and Industry manages the development and implementation of policy that controls three interwoven components of the socioeconomic development of South Africa, namely tourism, the fishing industry and the management of environmental affairs. The department tries to ensure that the potential for economic growth within these three sectors is maximalised. The balance between the conservation and development of the environment is controlled and, where possible, the development of tourism and the fishing industry, and the conservation of the environment are controlled so that they complement one another and stimulate economic growth.

The sustained efforts to market South Africa internationally have brought about remarkable growth in this sector. In addition, as a result of the poverty relief fund more than R232 million was spent on tourism projects, the development of infrastructure and products right across the country. An in-depth look is being taken at projects that will develop the tourism industry at both the local and national levels. [Interjections.]

The Marine Living Resources Act contains comprehensive legislation about the fishing industry. The quota process in the fishing industry has been restructured, while transformation in the industry shows development. Seventy-three percent of all permits in the hake sector, for example, are largely in black possession.]

Two new Bills, namely the National Environmental Management Protected Areas Bill and the National Environmental Management Biodiversity Bill will ensure the proper management and utilisation of South Africa’s biodiversity. The World Summmit on Sustainable Development, or WSSD, which was successfully hosted in 2002, highlighted the country’s ability to take up the challenge of integrating socioeconomic development with environmental protection.

The achievements of the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism for 2002 can be summarised as follows: the WSSD; transformation in the fishing industry; the launch of the Great Limpopo Transfrontier Park; negotiations for a once-off sale of our ivory stockpile; the translocation of game to Mozambique, and the sale of plastic bags to carry groceries from our shops. This law ensures that plastic bags will not be disposed of all over our country, because each bag costs forty-something cents. [Laughter.]

In order to effect greater transformation in the industry, the department intends to, firstly, use information technology to improve service delivery; secondly, empower South Africans to participate in protection of the environment and tourism through networking, outreach and strategic partnerships and thirdly, promote economic improvement, job creation and poverty eradication.

Fourthly, the department intends to ensure the practise of good governance within the department, and fifthly to promote transformation and black economic empowerment, or BEE, in the fishing, tourism and conservation sectors. The department is of the view that the DEAT is leading the BEE process in the fishing industry, and that it has achieved great success in effecting transformation in this sector.

Sethogo ke maemo a dituelo. Dituelo mo ngwageng wa 1999 e ne e le dimileone di le R506 mme ga nna le ditlhatloso tsa 40,4% tse di re tlisang go dibileone di le R1,4 mo dingwageng tsa 2002/2003. Ditlhatloso tse di bakilwe ke ditekanyetsokabo tse di neng di tshwanetse go efosa kgotsa go fokotsa botlhoki le bodidi, le go nna le mekoro ya ditlhapi le diphetogelo go maphata jaaka Karolo 21 ya setheo, le samiti ya lefatshe e e neng e tshwerwe kwa Gauteng, WSSD.

Le fa tiriso ya ditlhwatlhwa e tlaa tlhatloga mo ngwageng wa ditshele wa 2003/2004, go letetswe gore di fologe mo dingwageng tse pedi tse di tlaa latelang. Lebaka ke gore lenaneo la go efosa botlhoki le emisiwe go tswa mo kabong ya Lefapha. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[With regard to expenditure trends, expenditure in 1999 was R506 million and there was an increase of 40,4%, bringing it to R1,4 billion in 2002-03. These increases are caused by the budgets which were supposed to alleviate or reduce poverty, and to have fishing vessels and transfers to entities such as section 21 companies, as at the world summit that was held in Johannesburg, the WSSD.

Although expenditure is forecast to rise in the 2003-04 financial year, it is expected to fall over the following two years. The reason for this is that poverty relief programmes should stop receiving funding from the department.]

I am not sure whether this research is correct, and that we are envisaging a cessation of poverty alleviation … [Interjections.] [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): However, I must congratulate Mr Moatshe on the fact that he can speak so many languages; that is a pride that we have in South Africa … [Applause.] I hope Mr Gelderblom will be able to close the gap. [Laughter.]

Mr J P GELDERBLOM (Western Cape): Chair, I will attempt to give you a glimpse of the essentials, as we see it, of environmental affairs and tourism in the Western Cape. We have benefited in the past year from the amalgamation of environmental affairs, which is combined with the directorate of pollution and waste management and the chief directorate of development planning.

Tourism is booming in the Western Cape, and in many other regions. At the same time, many more people are becoming aware of their environmental rights in terms of the Constitution. The number of environmental impact assessments, or EIAs, reaching the department has tripled in the past two years from 70 to about 220 a month.

The number of development planning applications is nearing a thousand a year. Obviously, with more input in both sections, the number of objections filed with the department about ecosensitive activities climbs rapidly. This has led to the creation of new products, such as checklists and guidelines to improve service delivery. We are quite proud of our EIA application form and scoping checklist, and we are liaising closely with the national department on the requirements for off-road vehicle regulations and fee structures for boat-launching sites.

I am delighted to share with you the tourism activities we have undertaken over the past six months. As a province we have adopted a balanced approach to tourism management. We realise that we should be investing more in marketing, so that we can have more people coming to our province, thus stimulating new demands for new products.

We believe we also need to invest in building the capacity of newcomers and strengthening existing businesses so that they can cater for the needs of a rapidly growing market. Most importantly, we hope to lobby other departments and entities to invest in infrastructure that will unlock the economic development potential of previously marginalised individuals and groups.

The lack of a tourism culture, access to markets, finance, information, skills and training remain obstacles to people who were formerly excluded from the sector. In this respect, the special focus has been on our new destination marketing organisation, or DMO, small business support and black economic empowerment, tourism safety and security and the Cape Agulhas project.

Ek is bly om u te kan meedeel dat genoegsame konsensus tussen provinsiale en plaaslike regering bereik is om ‘n enkele toeristebestemmings- bemarkingsorganisasie vir Kaapstad en die Wes-Kaap tot stand te bring. Die voorgestelde toeristebemarkingsorganisasie vereis dat bestaande wetgewing in ons provinsie vervang moet word. Hierdie proses sal ‘n paar maande neem om gefinaliseer te word, maar ons teikendatum bly voor einde 2003.

Die aanwysing van raadslede sal afhang van aspekte soos kennis van die toerismebedryf, transformasie en verteenwoordiging, bemarkingskundigheid, verteenwoordiging van toerisme-bedryfsassosiasies en die vermoë om sterk leierskap te openbaar. Verder gaan ons die bemarking van opkomende entrepreneurs integreer in ons bemarkingstrategie met nuwe produkte. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[I am glad to be able to tell you that adequate consensus has been reached between provincial and local government to establish a single tourism destination marketing organisation for Cape Town and the Western Cape. The proposed tourism marketing organisation requires that existing legislation in our province should be replaced. This process will take a few months to finalise, but our target date remains before the end of 2003.

The appointment of councillors will depend on factors such as knowledge of the tourism industry, transformation and representation, marketing expertise, representation of tourism industry associations and the ability to display strong leadership capability. Furthermore, we are going to integrate the marketing of emerging entrepreneurs into our marketing strategy by means of new products.]

As provincial government, our ultimate objective is to transform the sector in order to ensure increased access and representation by previously excluded groups.

We also have other objectives, which are to grow existing businesses and increase the number of tourism enterprises and, most importantly, increase innovation in the tourism sector.

We know that while transformation and democracy have removed the racial barriers to participation in tourism, the previously disadvantaged people of the country are not represented on a significant scale in the sector as mainstream participants in the capacity as owners, managers and operators.

For example, we register tourist guides, and to date we have more than 2 500 tourist guides on our books, and only 13% are from the marginalised communities. That is not acceptable for me as Minister in this province. But, I can also tell you Minister, that since this new government has been in place in the Western Cape, we have had more than 400 trained; and of the 400, 196 are from the previously disadvantaged communities. [Applause.]

Research indicates that the issues of safety, security and negative perceptions are major determinants when tourists select destinations. We have developed a tourism safety management plan, in consultation with representatives of the tourism industry and law enforcement agencies in the province. With short, medium and long-term interventions we aim to prevent and manage crime, rather than having to deal with the aftermath of attacks on tourists. My department has put in place a crisis communication plan, which has clear proactive and reactive programmes to manage safety. This serves as a platform for the overall tourism safety strategy and is supported by the existence of the multisector crises communication team. In other words, we want to advise product owners on what to do and who to contact when problems arise.

We have also put in place a victim support programme, which covers issues such as media liaison, contact with the embassies, medical assistance, linkage to the criminal justice system and support for family and partners. We also have a very good relationship with the South African Police in the Western Cape, also due to the new government, of course.

A high-profile conference on tourism safety is planned in Cape Town in October, to allow the province to exchange ideas on best practices and obtain knowledge from countries that have faced and overcome similar odds. That will be in close co-operation with the national Government.

We have identified the Cape Agulhas area as one of the most unique features of the province because of its location at the Southern most tip of Africa. To capitalise on its strength, the department has appointed a consortium of consultants who will develop an integrated tourism development framework for Cape Agulhas.

The ultimate objective is to position Agulhas not only as an icon for the province, but also a national and a continental icon. We hope to highlight the Africanness of the province, and contribute towards promoting the objectives of Nepad.

In addition to the above-mentioned projects, we are also involved in implementing programmes, as indicated in the integrated tourism development framework. Together with the City of Cape Town, we are identifying sites of cultural, historical and environmental significance on the Cape Flats. Proper interpretative signage will be researched and developed for these sites.

Ons is ook baie sterk daarop ingestel om landelike toerisme te bevorder. Ek wil ook vandag vir u noem dat ons in die Karoo die Pont naby Prins Albert baie sterk prioriteit gee, omdat dit nuwe toeriste-weë kan open. Baie dankie ook voorlopig, Minister, vir u en u departement se steuning.

Ek wil ook namens die Wes-Kaap dankie sê vir die direkteur-generaal, sy ondersteuning en sy harde werk en die goeie samewerking wat my departement van hom kry. Minister, u kan trots wees op die direkteur-generaal wat ons vandag het. Baie dankie. [Applous.]

Minister, ek weet nie of mev Cheryl Carolus hier is nie, maar ons in die Wes-Kaap wil vandag sê ons is op haar baie, baie trots. Die Wes-Kaap en Suid-Afrika kan trots wees om só ‘n bemarker te hê van die mooiste bron wat ons in die Wes-Kaap het - toerisme. [Applous.]

En dan kom ek by minister Valli Moosa. Ek skuld die Minister niks nie en die Minister skuld my niks nie, maar ek wil vandag vir u sê dat dit vir my ‘n wonderlike voorreg is om saam te werk met ‘n persoon van integriteit, ‘n persoon wat ‘n oopdeurbeleid volg en ‘n persoon wat altyd tyd het om na ‘n mens te luister as jy hom skakel of as jy by hom ‘n draai maak. Minister, baie, baie dankie vir die wyse waarop u toerisme in hierdie land vorentoe neem. Ek wil u verseker, ek en die Wes-Kaap staan by u, en ons sal die pad saam met u loop. Baie dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[We are also very strongly set on promoting rural tourism. I also want to mention to you today that we in the Karoo are affording the Pont near Prins Albert very strong priority, because it can open up new tourism routes. Thank you very much also for the moment, Minister, for your and your department’s support.

I also want to say thank you on behalf of the Western Cape to the director- general, and for his support and his hard work and the good co-operation that my department gets from him. Minister, you can be proud of the director-general that we have today. Thank you. [Applause.]

Minister, I do not know whether Mrs Cheryl Carolus is here, but we in the Western Cape just want to say today that we are very, very proud of her. The Western Cape and South Africa can be proud to have such a marketer of the finest resource that we have in the Western Cape - tourism.

And then I come to Minister Valli Moosa. I owe the Minister nothing, and the Minister owes me nothing, but I want to say to you today that it is a wonderful privilege for me to work with a person of integrity, a person who follows an open door policy and a person who always has the time to listen to one when one rings him or visits him. Minister, thank you very, very much for the way in which you are taking tourism in this country forward. I want to give you the assurance that the Western Cape and I stand by you and we will walk the distance with you. Thank you very much. [Applause.]]

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, it is indeed a privilege to participate in this debate. We have just received gifts, and it looks like a recycled product, but I do not know what the value of this product is, because we have to declare our gifts. So, hon Minister, in future just put a price tag on it as well. But we appreciate it. [Laughter.]

We in the Northern Cape recognise that the spectre of unemployment and poverty looms large. We have implemented a range of programmes and measures targeted at poverty alleviation; job creation is ultimately the best means to this end. The promotion of economic growth and development, therefore, remains one of the short, medium and long-term priorities of local, provincial and national Government. We must be mindful of the fact that our hard-won democracy will only truly be entrenched when the majority of South Africans are freed from the yoke of poverty.

In the Northern Cape province, we explicitly recognise the inter- relatedness of the performance of our economy and the socioeconomic conditions under which large parts of our population live. We understand that we need to forge partnerships and strategic alliances if we are to put our provincial economy back on a positive growth path. Consequently, the promotion of economic growth and development remains a central challenge of the Government that aspires to achieve a better life for all.

Through what has been an extensive and ongoing programme of research, we have identified in a significant number of projects level economic growth opportunities that could provide the impetus for the new growth and development.

While the Northern Cape provincial economy remains heavily dependent upon minerals and agricultural sectors as a source of livelihood for our people, we are actively pursuing prospects for growth in new industries, such as tourism and mariculture, to provide the basis for new sustainable livelihoods in the Northern Cape.

In tourism, a number of major new ecotourism-orientated initiatives have convinced me of the growth potential of tourism in the Northern Cape. Firstly, the development of the three transfrontier parks in the province on the shared borders with Botswana and Namibia looks set to give a much- needed impetus to tourism development in the province. Already the proclamation of the Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park in 1999 has been followed by new investments on the part of the SA National Parks in the area.

Later this year the final international agreements will be signed between South Africa and Namibia, that will bring the Ai-Ais-Richtersveld Transfrontier Conservation Park into being. Moves are also afoot for the provincial government to lead a process that will see the Orange River Mouth Ramsar site proclaimed a provincial protected area. In all three cases, transfrontier status will enhance levels of awareness of these world- class tourism destinations.

Our challenge, in addition to marketing and promotion, is to be able to prepare business to be able to take advantage of new business opportunities that arise as a result of these developments. In the rural areas of the Northern Cape, these transfrontier developments would seem to have great potential to contribute to the economic development of remote rural areas, and the upliftment of disadvantaged people.

Clearly this is an opportunity that we cannot afford to miss. However, I am concerned that the scope for these developments to attract investment and to create new jobs will diminish unless we give this matter more explicit consideration. To reinforce the point that I am making, I cannot find any published data even estimating the number of jobs that the Kgalagadi and Ai- Ais-Richtersveld parks might create. This is a serious omission, particularly when the same sources can tell me how many bird species will be protected, or how many biomes will be conserved, etc.

As a source of economic growth, fishing in the Northern Cape has declined in the past 20 to 30 years to the point where current quota allocations are insufficient to sustain the livelihoods of those individuals that were previously active participants in this industry, and the existing fishing and fish processing infrastructure. This decline has been acutely felt in the poor and impoverished coastal communities, especially in Namaqualand in the Port Nolloth area.

Nevertheless, we have identified a few opportunities to rejuvenate the industry in the province through a few targeted interventions. We are also currently partnering your department, Minister, in a small-scale fishing experiment that seeks to prove ecological and economic sustainability of an in-shore fishery, targeting certain nonquota species as a means to create new opportunities in the industry. We are also engaged with your department in soliciting your support for a number of regional fishery interventions designed to get more out of the existing hake and west coast rock lobster fisheries. In so doing, we recognise that the scope for growth in the local fishing industry is limited, but if we can just recreate opportunities for many of those formerly involved in the industry and get existing fish processing facilities functioning again, we will have achieved something significant.

Mariculture, or the farming of marine organisms, is a global growth industry fuelled by the fact that natural fish stocks are essentially maximised in terms of their sustainable exploitation. Although it is a relatively new economic sector, it displays enormous potential for growth along the Northern Cape province’s Namaqualand coast, particularly when it involves the cultivation of high-value species for export. Favourable biological conditions, excellent shore-based infrastructure, the presence of a number of pioneer private sector mariculturists and a strong research and development base, offer an ideal environment for investment and growth in this industry.

For some time now the provincial department of economic affairs and tourism has been researching the prospects for growth in this sector, and has now identified a portfolio of projects for which investment partners are being actively solicited. Key amongst these is the flagship Namaqualand Mariculture Industrial Park. It entails the development of a clustered set of complementary mariculture activities, sharing common infrastructure and technical and business development support services on the site within the Richtersveld municipal area.

In our estimation, this project, together with a portfolio of related mariculture projects with a special capital development cost of R150 million, could create between 500 and 700 jobs over the next three to five years. For some of you that may not sound like very much, but in the impoverished and small coastal communities of Namaqualand it is significant, particularly in the light of the impending downscaling and closure of the diamond mines over the medium to long-term.

The Northern Cape provincial government will, therefore, be actively promoting this sector into the foreseeable future. However, yet again, we must forge more effective relationships with your department, hon Minister, the Department of Science and Technology and the Department of Trade and Industry.

I have no doubt about the potential for tourism, fishing and mariculture to provide the basis for new economic growth and development opportunities for our province. However, if these are to be realised, I believe that we need to achieve better co-ordination through integrated governance.

While each province and each municipality needs to identify its own economic potentials, I believe that there is considerable scope for a more co-ordinated, more focused and better managed intergovernmental programme, designed to realise growth prospects in the province.

In my view, it is time that we think more deeply about arranging public sector resources around projects and programmes, instead of along narrow and sometimes parochial departmental or jurisdictional interests. As much as we talk co-operation and sit in our cluster committees at the national and at the provincial level, it is out there on the ground where we also need the clustering and collaboration. All too frequently, the interface between national and provincial government, in particular, is found wanting at an operational level. I suspect that this is often because the project or programme on which we are supposed to be collaborating is our priority, or that of a local municipality … [Time expired.] Thank you, Chairperson.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Mr M J Mahlangu): At times I am just trying to be more decent by switching your microphone off. You must understand your time is over.

Mrs A M VERSFELD: Thank you, Chairperson. I am also a member of the select committee, but I cannot remember that I gave Rev Moatshe a mandate to speak on my behalf in this Chamber. [Interjections.]

If I look at the ever-increasing budget for tourism marketing, I fail to understand why tourism activities related to marine and coastal management are treated with contempt, ignorance and arrogance. MCM has now, justifiably, been renamed by the public as ``marine and coastal mayhem’’.

Allow me to illustrate how insensitive MCM have been with regard to the shark aquarium in Jeffreys Bay, the shark cage diving sector, the boat- based whale watching, as well as the vis [fish] favours'' in Still Bay. The shark aquarium is one of the three shark exporters in the world, and it is the biggest. They receive approximately 80 000 visitors per year, as this aquarium is also an educational facility, which, for example, has 17 additional shark species that have no commercial value. The educational component also provides lessons on the protection of the environment. All the South African aquariums, as well as the National Zoo in Pretoria, buy sharks and rays from this aquarium. Let me refer you to a local newspaper in Jeffreys Bay, Our Times, of 9 May. It featured a heading, Unique facility to boost tourism in Kouga’’. Another article of 30 May read:

A multimillion rand aquarium and sea park, similar to the world-renowned Sea World in San Diego, is being planned for Marina Martinique. The first construction is to start at the beginning of July. The stock is obtained from angling from the shore by trained people. Sharks are required to be transferred to a tank filled with sea water and a life support system, once it is captured. It also requires a vehicle with a support system on hand. Once in the tanks, the sharks are driven to the holding pools. This is done only through one of the three entrance or exit points. The chances of sharks surviving without the aforementioned support is zero. Access to the beach is about 20 times per year - weather as well as water permitting - mostly at night, during summer months, and not in a public swimming area. Therefore, it is not understandable why this aquarium is denied access to the beach by vehicle.

Noting at the same time, and I am quoting from a letter from marine and coastal management:

Kindly note that due to the absence of both an appropriate fee structure and a clear framework to ensure consistent processing of applications across all coastal provinces, permits will not be issued for research activities or tour operations. In the intervening period, the use of vehicles may only occur by virtue of an exemption by the Minister in terms of regulation 22.

Surely, there should be some guidelines in place to help these people.

Let me then come to the shark cage and boat-based whale watching.

Wat hulle in gemeen het, is dat daar geen openbare aankondigings was nie. En ek lees vir u ‘n brief voor: [What they have in common is that there were no public announcements. And I shall read to you a letter:]

This is a copy of an e-mail sent to Francois Rogers, at his request, after I had complained to him and Minister Moosa about the runaround I was given by MCM in an attempt to apply for a boat-based whale watching permit for a 100% black-owned company.

Op kort kennisgewing is die mense aangesê om hul mondelinge voorleggings te doen, wat ontaard het in ‘n intimiderende vraesessie deur die paneel. Vyf maande daarna is daar nog geen permit uitgereik nie. Toe die bootgebaseerde walviskykpermitte uiteindelik toegeken is, is die permitte teruggedateer na Januarie 2002. Die geldige tydperk van hierdie permitte is dus verkort met 16 maande, en as ons iets van toerisme af weet, sal ons weet dat die eindproduk eintlik eers na twee jaar se bemarking in werking tree.

Permitte is toegeken in sekere areas, sonder enige aankondiging, soos byvoorbeeld in Struisbaai. By ‘n ``prime whale calving area’’ soos De Hoop is dit net aangekondig, sonder om in kontak te wees met die geakkrediteerde liggaam, SABWA.

Ons beskik oor ‘n brief wat mnr Horst Kleinschmidt in 2002 aan mnr Bernie Paulse geskryf het, waarin hy hom belowe het dat dit nie weer sou gebeur nie. Desondanks het dit weer gebeur.

Pioniers in die bedryf is uitgelaat, en ek kyk spesifiek hier na Dr Vic Cocroft. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[On short notice, the people were instructed to make their oral submissions, which degenerated in an intimidating question session by the panel. Five months later, not one permit has yet been issued. When the boat- based whale watching permits were eventually issued, the permits were back- dated to January 2002. The valid period of these permits was thus shortened by 16 months, and if we know something about tourism, we will know that the end-product will only come into effect after two years of marketing.

Permits were issued in certain areas, like Struisbaai, without any announcement. At a “prime whale calving area”, like De Hoop it was only announced, without contacting the accredited body, SABWA.

We are in possession of a letter written by Mr Horst Kleinschmidt in 2002 to Mr Bernie Paulse wherein he was promised that it would not happen again. In spite of that, it happened again.

Pioneers in the industry were omitted and here I specifically refer to Dr Vic Cocroft.]

He has been involved in watch watching, both on land and boat-based, in South Africa and internationally. Since 1990 he has been at the centre for dolphin studies, and he has a long history of empowerment, education and community programmes.

As ek net kortliks kan verwys na die mense wat ons hier mee te doen het - ene Mnr Jackie Smit. Ek lees vir u uit ‘n brief van die Universiteit van Stellenbosch:

Just a letter of appreciation for the support you are rendering, both financially and logistically, to our shark research project. Without your unstinting support, it would not have been possible for us to undertake regular trips to gather data, without the possibility of approaching the sharks in a safe and professional way, our research cannot be conducted.

Hierdie navorsing is gedoen deur A Reynecke van die Departement Soölogie. Hierdie proses kon nie voortgaan nie, want die proses is oorgeneem deur mariene- en kusbestuur.

Dan wil ek graag aan u ‘n brief voorlees oor die probleme wat die mense ondervind. Dit is ‘n brief van White Shark Adventures:

We have been allocated a permit on 11 June, and have paid an amount of R20 000, which we had to borrow for the permit. But to date, we have not received our permit, in spite of promises that we would receive it within 20 days.

My tyd word min. Ek sal graag wil kom by die ``shark longline’’. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[If I could just quickly refer to the people with whom we are dealing here

• one Mr Jackie Smit. I read to you from a letter from the University of Stellenbosch:

  Just a letter of appreciation for the support you are rendering, both financially and logistically, to our shark research project. Without your unstinting support, it would not have been possible for us to undertake regular trips to gather data, without the possibility of approaching the sharks in a safe and professional way, our research cannot be conducted.

This research was done by A Reynecke of the Department Zoology. This process could not continue because the process were taken over by marine and coastal management.

Then I would like to read from a letter about the problems experienced by the people. It is a letter from White Shark Adventures.]

We have been allocated a permit on 11 June, and have paid an amount of R20 000, which we had to borrow for the permit. But to date, we have not received our permit, in spite of promises that we would receive it within 20 days.

My time is running out. I would like to get to the shark longline.]

After an in-depth study of the shark handline industry and documentation from marine and coastal management revealed the following about the industry: The argument is that this section is used to augment that of tuna fishing and implies … Chair, I am not going to take a question.

Ms J L KGOALI: Can the hon member take a question?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: The hon member has already indicated that she will not take any question.

Mrs A M VERSFELD: … to augment that of tuna fishing and implies that shark catchers are marginal. However, shark longline directed catches in 2001 totalled 127kg. SARS statistics for the import and export of dried shark fin indicate that the following minimum harvesting of shark was required to achieve 73kg of shark fin. To be able to achieve that, you need to catch 11 286 kg. Shark by-catch for all the vessels and all the permits as provided by MCM did not account for this incredible discrepancy.

The minimum unrecorded shark harvest is therefore as follows: Shark harvest, 11 000; shark direct, 127; shark by-catch, 110 and then unrecorded, 11 000. In this case one can suggest massive tax evasion as the reason for this proportionally low harvest of directed longline shark versus total shark harvested to support the net export of the shark fin. That is about one billion rand. [Interjections.]

It is thus unconceivable that rights should be granted to persons who clearly do not exercise these rights, or who exercise them but do not fulfil their statutory obligations by not submitting the obligatory information to MCM, yet they all got their permits. According to the fishery policy on shark longline fishing, I would like to quote:

More recently, 2002, however, the interest in shark has increased dramatically, target species are the soup fin and the hound shark.

It is therefore quite alarming to learn that this applicant, when he revealed this information, got a letter back stating that it made for interesting reading matter and would be considered in the next legislation. [Interjections.] [Time expired.]

Mr P D N MALOYI: Chairperson, I am reminded that I won’t be around next week - meaning that I am not going to participate in all the debates. You might want to be generous and extend my speaking time. [Laughter.]

Modulasetilo, Bakhuduthamaga ba le babedi ba kwa Bokone Bophirima, Mme Maureen Modiselle wa tsa Bojanala le Mme Edna Molewa wa tsa Tikologo ga ba a kgona go tla kwano gompieno ka gonne porofense ya Bokone Bophirima e ba batla thata. Go bonagetse gore ba tshwerwe ke mathata. Ba nkopile thata gore jaaka ke le mosimane yo o maleba, ke ba thuse ka kgang ya gompieno. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Chairperson, two MECs from the North West, Ms Maureen Modiselle of the department of tourism and Ms Edna Molewa of the department of environmental affairs could not be with us today because the North West province needs them. It appears that they have other commitments. As the relevant person, they asked me to convey apologies on their behalf.]

I also want to refresh the memory of Mrs Versveld. She seems to have forgotten that Rev Moatshe is the chairperson of this committee, a committee of which she is a member. The chairperson of the committee can speak on its behalf. I think that this is not only happening in the ANC where one has this kind of nice arrangement. I think other parties, in other countries, might have a similar arrangement. The only problem here might be the DA, which might want to come with an arrangement which does not exist on planet earth. It might exist somewhere, maybe on Mars. I know that people are going to Mars; they might want to tell us what is happening up there.

Tourism in our province, in particular, and at a national level, is growing at a phenomenal rate. In our province, for example, international visitor arrival grew from over 347 000 in 2001 to over 600 000 in 2002. Obviously, this is a percentage of growth of more than 50%. What a nice thing. Secondly, from this growth, our people have benefited significantly. A substantial number of jobs has been created, both direct and indirect, as a result of the growth I have just spoken about.

In 1994, a total of 67 000 jobs were created, in 1999 117 000 were created and in 2000 207 000 jobs were created due to this growth. Members will agree with that this is something which is very good, not only for the province, but for the country as a whole. As the North West province, we want to advance to the Minister and the department that province has a significant role to play in the advancement of tourism in our country. It is one of the most important provinces that need to play that role. Not only that province, but all of us have a responsibility to promote tourism amongst the indigenous people. We have that responsibility. It is not nice when you go to Guguletu and find that people there know nothing about Table Mountain. If you go to an area called Mabeleapodi, in North West, people there know nothing about the Pilanesberg. We need to ensure that we promote tourism amongst our people.

Therefore, our province has undertaken to do, amongst other things, the following: firstly, to educate our people about the value of tourism; secondly, to ensure that there are opportunities for indigenous people to experience the joys of travelling, for example from North West to Gauteng and from Gauteng to the Northern Cape, etc - our province is going to do that; and thirdly, to create more opportunities for communities to benefit economically from tourism. One of the key things which is very important, and I think if Comrade Kader is listening he will also agree with me, is to engage educational institutions in fostering a love and knowledge of tourism, and to provide tourism facilities at affordable rates to local communities. This is what the province of the North West, the platinum province, is working on.

We have brought to the attention of local government structures that they need to be fully involved in educating local communities about the importance of tourism. Our strong and unshakable opinion is that local government must assist in conducting or commissioning research into local history and culture - this is very important - with a view to making them accessible in a comprehensive format. We need to document that history and culture as local government, and ensure that, at the end of the day, as people come to our provinces, and localities, they know what is happening there. We might not only want to concentrate on where we are; we might want to circulate that information in other provinces like the Northern Cape and Gauteng.

The other thing which they might want to do is to sponsor annual historical and cultural events that seek to highlight local history, culture and values. Like I said before, the other thing which they might want to go further with, is to package local culture such as crafts, music and dance for the tourism market. I know ``muruti’’ [the Reverend] is thankful. I have no doubt in my mind that there is a need for black economic empowerment in tourism. We therefore, as a province, and I in particular, appreciate the initiatives taken to achieve the said objectives. If we want to achieve the said objectives, some of the things which we might want to do, or which we are already doing, is to appreciate that there are awards in recognition of emerging tourism businesses. I think that is encouraging, and is also assisting in ensuring that our people become involved in this venture.

What a wonderful initiative the tourism guide training partnership is. Product development, mentorship, etc - all these things are wonderful. I know the chairperson agrees with me. [Laughter.] Through the province’s tourism implementation agencies - and I know the Minister spoke about this, but I will come to it later - the North West parks and tourism board has undertaken to, on a continuous basis, monitor the growth and development of SMMEs with PDI status. If I were to quote figures, it might take us a very long time, but they are quite impressive. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr M J BHENGU: Chairperson, the KZN province prides itself on being a top- class tourism destination in our country as it exemplifies a wide diversity of services - beauty, tranquillity, culture and history. Additionally, there is across-the-spectrum co-operation amongst all role-players and stakeholders regarding our unity of purpose and achievement on this endeavour. This was, most likely, the key reason that prompted the Chief Executive Officer of SA Tourism - Ms Cheryl Carolus, to allocate the internationally renowned and prestigious tourism indaba to our province for another two years.

Throughout the years our province has been building the experience, expertise and diversity of our nature and resources in order to share our country’s major goal of becoming an international leader in the tourism field. We have studied this diversity scientifically and thoroughly, and especially the wide variety of spin-offs emanating from the various sectors and services involved in the elevation of tourism as a major job creation vehicle. Of course, there have been problems, especially after the implementation of the amendments to the National Environmental Management Act of 1998, with the banning of 4X4s from beaches.

Research has indicated that over 125 000 mandates were lost to local people through this banning, bearing in mind that all these people are the poorest of the poor. An appeal is made to the Ministry to re-examine the amendments, and especially their implementation. Why must we have a blanket ban on beaches? Can’t we be more innovative and flexible? We are proud of the historical, cultural and natural diversity of our province at all levels, including the so-called tours, sporting events, international conferences and a wide variety of other events.

The recently held international ports conference at the ICC proved beyond doubt the immense potential of our people, our natural resources, our infrastructure and our impressive marketing mix of uniqueness, innovation and united spirit. Tourism is a job creator - a beacon of human hope. We in KwaZulu-Natal are determined to create and maintain the circumstances that will galvanise the continuous process of success, progress, growth and development.

I want to support the hon member, Mr Maloyi’s point that it is important that the Ministry should begin to think of taking tourism to rural areas, right into the indigenous areas of our country, so that they realise the value of tourism.

Mr M C MOKITLANE (Free State): Chairperson, Minister, MECs present, and hon members, I lived in a place called Vredefort, the host to the Vredefort Dome. I was not even aware that the stone I used to play on had such significance in terms of tourism. I also lived in what was then called Qwaqwa, but now it is Maluti-a-Phofung. For five years I lived there without knowing the Golden Gate Highlands National Park was less than 30km away from me. And I consider myself, relative to a portion of the community, to be sophisticated. If I did not know about these things, what about the millions of our people? I think we have a great task at hand to bring this consciousness to our people. We have to tell them that they need time to relax.

In the few years spanning our democratic dispensation, we have seen a phenomenal growth of the tourist industry in our country. At a time when many countries in the world, including favourite tourist destinations like Australia, are experiencing a decline in tourists, our country continues to receive increasing numbers of tourists. Hence tourism has become the fourth largest industry in our country, and has also become a lifeline for other sectors of the economy.

It has increased employment. The industry itself has created a lot of job opportunities for our people. This sector has also led to investment in other sectors of the economy. As the tourists crisscross our country, they also come to discover that there are business opportunities. As a result, they come back to invest in our economy.

The Free State is known as a farming area, an area where you have mines, particularly gold mines. The Public Service is contributing greatly to the gross geographic product of the province. It is because of this realisation that the province has also embarked on a programme that would ensure that we attract as many tourists as possible to our province. We have also made significant contributions to the growth of the tourism industry in our country. In the past financial year 75 000 people visited the Free State provincial reserves.

Many of the travellers who go to favourite tourist destinations like KwaZulu-Natal and the Cape, inevitably pass through the Free State and, as a result, contribute a lot in terms of revenue in the Free State. We also have leisure travellers who mostly come from Gauteng. There are also land travellers, who come from Mozambique and Lesotho, who visit the Free State on a continuous basis. Sometimes those from Lesotho visit the Free State more than 10 times a year.

We have also, as a province, benefited from major international events which have been held in our country, particularly the Cricket World Cup. There are currently major developments that are significantly going to enhance tourism in the province. In the budget vote of the provincial department of tourism, environmental and economic affairs, the MEC, Sakhiwo Belot, announced the establishment of a tourism authority, something which we have not had over a long period in the province. We believe that the tourism authority will actually assist the province in taking advantage of opportunities offered by our South African tourism.

We have also found out that the MEC is going to establish an investment recruitment agency that will ensure that our tourist industry grows. The other development is the granting of two casino licences after a protracted process. The two licences will bring forth the establishment of the casinos in the Matjhabeng municipality and in Bethlehem in the Dihlabeng municipality. Bethlehem lies in the eastern part of the Free State. The eastern part of the Free State, with its mountain ranges and scenic beauty, has the largest share of the tourism market in the Free State.

Because of its proximity and familiarity to the Lesotho citizens, the casino in Bethlehem is going to attract a large number of day visitors to the province. The development of a more that R60 million game park in the vicinity of Wepener will also be a major boost to tourism in the province. This game reserve is piloted by the private sector. A number of events and festivals, held annually in the Free State, continue to attract significant numbers of tourists to the Free State. The Phakisa Motorbike Grand Prix, held in Welkom, attracts a large number of riders from abroad and from inside the country. The Mangaung Cultural Festival, the Cherry Festival and the agricultural showcase, Nampo, are some of the events that continue to enjoy popularity, and to bring tourists to our province. The promotion of tourism among the indigenous people of South Africa is a priority. Our people must not be made hewers of wood and drawers of water in this industry. They must be developed into tourists that will savour the beauty of their country and attain fulfilment. They must be allowed and trained to carve for themselves a business niche in this industry.

They must be assisted in terms of access to funding for the development of SMMEs, which are tourism-based. Already our people have shown a resilience against the formidable challenges presented by this industry, by establishing tour operator businesses, and by achieving substantial equity in the hostel industry, catering and transport. Many have received training and accreditation as tour guides, and therefore play an essential role in tourism. As the tourism industry becomes more and more sophisticated, there will be a need to upgrade the quality of training presently given. More women are establishing B&Bs in formally black areas, thus fulfilling an important need for travellers. Many B&Bs are successful, and those located near places of interest are doing good business. An example would be those near places like the Kruger National Park. In the province, in Intabazwe in Harrismith, 13 B&Bs were established to serve travellers to Durban. These B&Bs are run by women. Local government must assist some of these businesses with marketing.

Many local authorities in the Free State are not doing enough to market tourist destinations in their own localities. They are not giving out information on what is available in their own areas. Ecotourism is one significant product that helped South Africa to have the highest growth rate last year. It is important, therefore, to preserve our environment and natural beauty to ensure that the people can still appreciate our country. The control of waste and prevention of pollution become critical.

The Government’s campaign against plastic bags is already yielding positive results. Our streets are now less littered with plastics and the countryside is beginning to expose its beauty to the passerby. We must, as a country, continue to search for better ways to dispose of the 42 million cubic metres of general waste we generate each year. As the province of the Free State, our greatest concern should continue to be the area of Sasolburg, which is our chemical industrial area. Many residents continue to voice their concern regarding the air pollution.

It is, however, heartening to realise that this matter is also receiving attention from the provincial government. Local municipalities are compelled by the Atmospheric Pollution Prevention Act to control various forms of air pollution, including poisonous gases and dust. Control is mainly exercised through carefully setting requirements for the installation of advanced air cleaning equipment. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr A E DE WET (Eastern Cape): Chairperson, thank you very much for the opportunity. I would like to start by thanking the hon Minister and the department for the transformation that they have initiated in South Africa.

They have resurrected the status of our true national flowers at the expense of the alien invasion of the plastic variety. They have largely normalised and continue to normalise the participation in the fishing industry. The hon Minister has acknowledged and recognised the obvious, the obvious being the cleanliness of the Nelson Mandela metropole, and the growing diversity of the support for the ANC, not only in the Nelson Mandela metropole, but throughout the Eastern Cape.

I would like to make a few comments on the issues raised by the hon Minister. The Minister highlighted the fact that R598 million is allocated to the provinces to manage 30% of the protected area estate. I venture to say that this may be due to the inability of the provinces to generate revenue from this asset. This must be seen as a direct challenge to the provinces, and I am pleased to say that the Eastern Cape has taken up that challenge.

We acknowledge that the personnel of our Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism are trained and skilled in the care of fauna and flora. They know how to look after the animals in our province and our reserves, but they don’t know how to look after the people, and it is the people who generate the revenue.

We have called for private sector initiatives and participation to take over the functions in the Eastern Cape reserves, specifically looking after the people and being in a situation to generate revenue. We have done this now for the second time. I must say the first time the response was rather disappointing, but the response to our second initiative has been outstanding. A very, very exciting response has come from the private sector and preferred participants will be announced shortly.

The change in participation in the fishing industry must be applauded. Up to 60% of quotas are now allocated to companies with a majority of black shareholding. We also applaud the fact that 40% of the department’s procurement is now directed to BEE companies.

However, hon Minister, I want to suggest that the Government may have to do more to realise the benefits to the subsistence fishers. I want to refer specifically to the crayfish resource along the Wild Coast of the Eastern Cape. We still have a situation in which the crayfish is harvested and sold to the few cottage owners along the coastline for R4 to R6. Many crayfish are taken out daily, a lot of them undersized.

I would like to suggest that it is essential for Government to intervene and to make the markets available to those fishers. I’ve often thought that with this resource, which is a resource that can survive away from its natural environment for some time, storage tanks could be erected along the Wild Coast, where the harvest of the subsistence fishers could be bought at market prices and be redirected to the market.

One may need Government intervention to achieve that. One would far rather see, maybe, five crayfish taken out of the sea to generate, for example, R200 or R300. That would be preferable to the situation at the moment, where one would have 10 crayfish removed from the sea to give a return of, maybe, R50 to that subsistence fisher.

I think having access to the markets would encourage the subsistence fishermen to take ownership of the resource, and would then generate the situation where they would protect the resource with their own future.

I would also like to suggest that there needs to be intervention as far as the tourism industry is concerned as well. There are a few huge stumbling blocks that prevent new entrants from participating in the tourism industry.

The inability of many people to access capital to develop new and diversified tourism products is a problem, especially with the support of those products being questioned by commercial banks, and being regarded as high risk by commercial banks.

We have a situation in which people develop a tourism product, and may not have the capital for the marketing. They would then have to wait over a period of time before support for that product is shown. I’ve often had a dream of bringing in a jumbo jet full of tourists, and from the moment they land, making them available to the sector that has not participated in the industry in the past, and having them transported by these people are transported to new products, products that the tourists are looking for. They would be given a 10-day African experience, after which further products can be developed, if the assurance can be given that that product is going to be supported on a daily basis by a sector of people on that jumbo jet that’s landing in our country, who would be taken around by new participants. My dream is that, with the assurance of support, products can be developed because loans would be attainable.

I think that there is a lot going for our tourism. We’ve shown huge strides. The Eastern Cape is proud to say that we have now launched our master plan in tourism. It’s something we have worked on for the last five years, and it was launched last week.

There is a very positive tone in the Eastern Cape, as far as economic development is concerned, as far as tourism is concerned and as far as participation in the fishing industry is concerned.

I would just like to end my input by saying that we support the budget, and I would like everybody to take note that the sun is shining on the Eastern Cape. I thank you. [Applause.]

Dr E A CONROY: Chairperson, Minister Moosa and colleagues, it is quite +appropriate that the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism’s Budget Vote should be debated during World Environment Week. The theme of, and powerful slogan for these celebrations, namely Water: Two billion people are dying for it'', are aptly expressed in the words of the hon Kofi Annan when he says that,It highlights the centrality of water to human survival and sustainable development’’.

The sustainable provision of clean and fresh water to every human being is only possible if we, who are not the owners, but the custodians, of nature and the environment, realise and execute our duty to clean up and maintain the very environment in which we live, and to start giving a human face to environmental issues. It is, therefore, also appropriate that we celebrate World Environment Week, during which we can pause and reflect on the state of our environment, and on the effects of our environmental behaviour.

Die beskerming en koestering van die omgewing is egter nie ‘n saak wat net gedurende Wêreldomgewingsweek hoog op ons agenda moet wees nie. Daarom is dit goed dat twee van die departement se belangrike deurlopende programme te make het met, eerstens, omgewingskwaliteit en -beskerming wat daarop gerig is om om te sien na die grondwetlike reg van elke Suid-Afrikaner om te leef in ‘n omgewing wat nie skadelik vir sy of haar gesondheid en lewenskwaliteit is nie, en, tweedens, omgewingsbeplanning en -koördinasie wat ontwerp is om ondersteuningsdienste te verskaf vir doeltreffende omgewingsbestuur en openbare deelname aan omgewingsaangeleenthede.

Dit is dan ook hierdie programme wat instrumenteel was by die promulgering van regulasies van twee sake wat reeds baie daartoe bygedra het - en ook in die toekoms nog hiertoe sal bydra - tot ‘n omgewing wat vir ons almal aangenaam en bevorderlik vir ons gesondheid en lewensomstandighede is. Ek verwys in die eerste plek na die plastieksakregulasies wat laat verlede jaar afgekondig is, ten spyte van besware uit die bedryf, en op 9 Mei vanjaar in werking getree het. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The protection and cherishing of the environment is not merely something that should only be high on the agenda during World Environment Week. Therefore it is a good thing that two of the department’s most important, ongoing programmes deal with, firstly, the quality and protection of the environment aimed at protecting the constitutional right of each and every South African citizen to live in an environment that is not detrimental to his or her health or quality of life; and, secondly, environmental planning and co-ordination designed to provide support services for efficient environmental management and public participation in environmental affairs.

It was this programme that was instrumental in the promulgation of regulations with regard to two matters which have already made a contribution - and which will in future make a further contribute - to an environment that is pleasant and beneficial to our health and conditions of living. I refer, firstly, to the regulations on plastic bags issued last year - regardless of the complaints from the industry - and which came into effect on 9 May this year.]

The serious and dedicated approach of the Minister, and the regulations crafted and implemented to rid us of the plastic bag problem, have already caused innovations to come to the fore. The Institute of Applied Materials in the Department of Chemical Engineering at the University of Pretoria has apparently already developed a so-called ``photodegradable’’ plastic, which degrades within two weeks into water and carbon dioxide when it is simultaneously exposed to sunlight and oxygen. The future application of this invention in plastic bag technology, and the affect it will have on environmental pollution, is obvious.

The second set of control measures which have already had beneficial effects on our coastline are those prohibiting the use of 4x4s and other private vehicles on beaches. The Minister is to be commended on his firm stand as far as this matter is concerned, also in the face of the threats by members of the public to use their vehicles on KZN beaches during the annual sardine run. These individuals clearly do not care that their irresponsible actions and behaviour cause significant harm to the environment, and seriously affect the rights of the ordinary South African to enjoy the beaches.

Last year South Africa hosted the World Summit on Sustainable Development with great success - an achievement which placed not just an ordinary feather, but a great big and proud ostrich plume, in the department’s cap. I suppose a toast would be in order. [Interjections.]

Although not on such an enormous scale, but also of significant importance, is the World Parks Congress, an event convened once every 10 years by the World Conservation Union, which will be hosted by South Africa in Durban during September. It will be a first, not only for South Africa but also for Africa. DEAT is wished every success in the arrangement of this event, which will act as a stimulus for increased support for the central role of protected areas in the livelihood of the peoples of this continent, and the role this can play in the eradication of poverty in Africa.

In closing, I wish to thank the Minister for the lovely gift. I am told that in South African indigenous culture each design and the colours of beadwork have a special significance and message. Not knowing what the exact message on this glass is, I assume that it could mean something like: Drink and enjoy - but do not drink too heavily! [Laughter.] I also assume that it will not be necessary for members to declare these gifts, even though they are priceless.

The New NP supports the Budget Vote of the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism. [Applause.]

Ms B SCOTT (KwaZulu-Natal): Madam Chair, hon members, in contradiction to the hon Bhengu who is not a member of the conservation and environmental portfolio committee in the province, that I chair, may I begin by congratulating the hon Minister on his address and brave stance on 4X4s and plastic bags. You do have the full support of KwaZulu-Natal, and our department is working in close co-operation with you. Our most pressing challenge in the province, right now, is the enforcement of this ban, as has been alluded to, during the imminent sardine run. During this period …

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! Mr Bhengu!

Mr M J BHENGU: Thank you, Chair. I couldn’t hear what special delegate Scott said. Why was she referring to me? She said something in connection with Bhengu. [Laughter.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Bhengu, don’t feel intimidated. Hon member, can you continue with your speech, please?

Ms B SCOTT: During the sardine run it may be useful for some officials from the department to help us monitor this potentially explosive situation.

In the hon Minister’s address he spoke of the Greater St Lucia Wetland Park Authority. This park has been declared a World Heritage Site. This gives me the opportunity to speak on one of my biggest bugbears.

The Wetlands Park extends to the Mozambique border, and incorporates the Maputoland Coastal Forest Reserve. In this little haven apartheid is alive and well, and it requires urgent intervention from national Government. This was one of the first field trips taken by the fledgling conservation portfolio committee in early 1996. In the space of two days, members of the committee were exposed to the worst form of abuse imaginable. This pristine coastal environment is home to no less than four SAPS, one SANDF, one health and numerous private holiday camps, including one owned by the Chamber of Mines, all of which were built in highly sensitive dune environments, in four instances on a primary dune. And while marauding, drunk, white policemen soak it up in one of this province’s most beautiful marine environments, little, if anything, has happened to improve the lot of the rural poor who live within the reserve’s boundaries.

I have in my possession the report drafted by the portfolio committee in

1. While this report is seven years old, there has been no political will on the part of the IFP, who controlled this Ministry up to two months ago. So, other than a proposal for some sort of development at Mabibi, absolutely nothing has changed. One can accurately speculate on the reasons for this gross political inertia, but this could be a subject for another debate, perhaps at the TRC.

Seven years ago the committee, headed by the ANC, demanded an immediate moratorium on the occupation of these sensitive beach sites by white civil servants and fat cats in the Chamber of Mines, and the like, who contribute a few rands in gate fees to run riot in this reserve each year. Yet Pretoria police and army bigwigs continue to holiday at Kosi Bay with impunity at our expense. No concrete steps have been taken to remove these camps. On the contrary, the situation has deteriorated further with illegal developments spreading throughout the reserve.

As the chairperson for conservation and environment in KwaZulu-Natal, I plead on behalf of the committee for the hon Minister, together with our hon MEC, Mr Dumisane Makhaya, to take urgent corrective steps in this, one of KwaZulu-Natal’s most unique conservation and coastal environments. Mr Minister, please may I invite you for an in situ site visit, and help us stop this abuse.

One of these campsites used to be the holiday camp for the well-known Vlakplaas Unit, namely the Black Rock Campsite, and it is still only used by the bigwigs in Pretoria, or white civil servants. There’s even a campsite, as I said, belonging to the health unit. When we had public hearings, what we were told, as a committee, was that this holiday camp for the health unit was for white doctors as an incentive to work in black rural areas. [Interjections.] I mean it is staggering, and this is still happening today.

Mr Minister, we do support your budget, but we really look for your help in this instance. [Applause.] Mr R M NYAKANE: Thank you, Madam Chairperson, members and hon Minister. Our MEC apologises for not being able to pitch for this debate due to unforeseen circumstances.

Polokwane was the host of the National Waste Summit two years ago, and a key output of that summit - which saw Government, business and NGOs meeting and agreeing - was the Polokwane Declaration. Some call the declaration ambitious. Some see the goals as unattainable. But, hon members, it is imperative that we take control to ensure that we give effect to the so- called environmental clause of our Constitution, particularly to ensure that we as Government are able to deliver on the demand that everyone has a right to an environment that is not harmful to his or her health or wellbeing.

Clearly it is an important task, and it is imperative that we as Government rise to the challenge, not just because we are required to do so by the Constitution, not even because it is the right and proper thing to do, but also from a simple, economic point of view. It is more cost-effective in the long run for the state to ensure that pollution is minimised than for that same state to have to carry the health care costs of a population harmed by pollution.

We have in the National Environmental Management Act a fundamental principle which guides us in dealing with matters of pollution. Put simply, it says ``the polluter pays’’. For too long polluters have been able to impose their externalities on society and on the state. In other words, fundamental costs of production, namely the environmental and health costs, have been borne, not by the producer, but by the environment and by people, frequently people who obtain no benefit from that production.

Clearly this is unreasonable and unfair, and it leads, in many cases, to what is called environmental racism - the location of lower-income groups in unhealthy or polluted environments, as a result of the property prices being lower in those areas. Thus, those who are poorest and most vulnerable are made to bear the costs of production of those who are the richest and most powerful. [Interjections.]

To this end we applaud the initiatives by the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to address many of the vectors of pollution. The recent plastic bag regulations have already had a noticeable effect in this regard, and the environment has benefited. But, of equally importance, the regulations have stimulated creative thinking in many sectors, and alternatives to the polluting plastic bags are beginning to emerge on the market. We anticipate that this will be a blossoming source of income for the informal sector.

The next challenge to be faced is the mountain of tyres which are accumulating in our landfills. They are costly to break down, as this has to happen mechanically. Yet, if not shredded they take up enormous amounts of space in landfills. Worse, they are easy to set alight, and create huge amounts of air pollution when this occurs. Even in Polokwane this was a problem on more than one occasion last year. While it is bad enough for them to catch fire accidentally, even worse is the deliberate burning of tyres, often by people attempting to extract the small amount of metal found within the carcass. We are pleased to be working closely with the national department on an integrated solution to this problem.

Hon members, the House will be well aware that environmental management is a concurrent competence between national and provincial spheres of government, and the implication of this is that it is the provinces who must implement the legislation as it is developed. This arrangement can be complicated enough, and it is made yet more complex in the case of air pollution, which is listed in Schedule 4, Part B, of the Constitution, as an exclusive competence of local government. Yet simple logic will tell us that air pollution goes where the wind blows, and thus respects no municipal, provincial or national boundary. To this extent we appreciate the efforts of the department to produce a legislative regime, which will enable standards for ambient air to be set at a national level, and to be monitored at all three spheres of government. In this regard, however, we feel a clearer role for provinces to take action against pollution needs to be provided for in the legislation, as there will undoubtedly be cases where local government is unable or unwilling to do so.

Hon members, the spirit of Letsema flows through the environmental sector. There are numerous structures and individuals who voluntarily give their time and their energy to ensure a healthy environment. Of course we must acknowledge the limitations of cleaning campaigns. It is true that they are not long-term solutions. They need to be handled sensitively so as not to distress organised labour in the cleaning sector. They need to be well planned and managed to avoid exposing vulnerable people, such as learners, to health risks like rats, pollution and medical waste. An overemphasis on cleaning campaigns can undermine the development of a long-term integrated waste management plan for an area.

But if we are sensitive to the limitations, they remain a wonderful mobilising project. How gratifying it is to see an army of volunteers descend on a polluted area and return with bag after bag of rubbish, eventually leaving a clean site. How positive for the self-esteem of a community, how good for building awareness and even for building companies.

Limpopo is a rural province. As such, the majority of the population depend directly on their environment, be it for fuel such as wood or for water. With this dependence comes vulnerability. Africa is a water-poor continent, and it is incumbent on us to manage our resources - not only rural Limpopo, but industrialised Cape Town as well. Yet, while Cape Town exceeded its water resources many years ago, and now colonises the resources of other districts, Limpopo remains almost entirely self-sufficient, yet vulnerable. It is indeed ironic that only a few years ago we were calling for assistance for flood relief, and now we are in the grip of a drought.

Clearly this highlights the need for greater awareness, on the part of all sectors of our population, regarding the functioning of the biosphere, and of the role of weather and weather cycles in the most basic parts of our lives.

Lastly, I have been instructed not to forget to thank you, the Minister, and your department for the continued support and assistance received by the province. May this gesture be maintained in the spirit of effective and efficient delivery. The Limpopo province supports the implementation of this Vote. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Nksz B N DLULANE: Mhlalingaphambili, Mphathiswa nabo bonke abakhoyo abasuka kumaphondo, masiyibulele into esoloko isenzeka eLimpopo. Kuyabonakala okokuba le demokrasi isizela neento ezintle. Rhoqo sisoloko sibona ilungu elingu’tat’ uNyakane limela abaphathiswa abaye bangezi kule Ndlu. Bamthembile kambe okokuba angabamela.

Xa ndibuyela kwintetho yanamhlanje, omnye wemisebenzi yethu ebalulekileyo malungu ePalamente esinikwa wona kukuba sihambe ngokwengxelo nemisebenzi esinikwa yona yingxelo yomhla we-8 kaJanuwari yinkomfa yesizwe ye-ANC yamashumi amahlanu ananye kunye nentetho kaMongameli, i`state-of-the-nation address’ ePalamente ngokunjalo neLekgotla. Zonke zimise umgaqo-nkqubo we- ANC wokuseka ubomi obungcono kubantu bonke. Le misebenzi nale migaqo-nkqubo ibandakanya ukuncitshiswa kwendlala, ukuvuselela imveliso, ukuvuselela ukholo kuqoqosho nokuphucula iimeko zentlalo yabantu.

Okukhulu nokuphambili bubukho benguqu kwintlalo yabantu eya kuthi idale ubukho bobomi babantu abanemveliso nengenisa eseka ubutyebi namathuba kubantu abahluphekileyo, ze ngolo hlobo kuvaleke umsantsa okhoyo wokungalingani kwabantu. Ndiqala ngesi siqalo nje kungokuba mna ndimele umbutho wesizwe kule ngxelo. Omnye umntu uya kuxakwa kukukuba yintoni na le nto ithethwa leli lungu.

Sihlalo namalungu ahloniphekileyo, le veki yiveki eyaziwa ngelokuba yiVeki yeSizwe yoKusingqongileyo (National Environmental Week). Ekubeni lo nyaka kwihlabathi waziwa njengowamanzi apho iibhiliyoni ezimbini zabantu kwilizwe liphela zifa ngenxa yawo. Ukanti ekhaya apha kuMzantsi Afrika sithi oKusingqongileyo kuBomi Bethu `My environment, my life’. Okuyinene kukuba ekubeni, kwihlabathi, lo nyaka unikezelwe ekubeni ngowamanzi oko kukukhuthaza oorhulumente okokuba baseke oluthe vetshe ulwazi ngokusetyenziswa nononophelo lwamanzi, ulawulo nokhuseleko lwawo. Kwakho, kuvulwa nenkongolo yokuba kukhawuleziswe ubonelelo lwamanzi kwiindawo ekwavunyelwana ngazo kwihlabathi, kuMzantsi Afrika nakumaphondo ngamaphondo.

Okona kulizinyo eliqaqambayo kukuba abantu bethu bayiqonde into yokuba ngeli thuba laba rhulumente bethu kumaphondo ngamaphondo sifuna ukuqinisekisa okokuba ikho inguqu kwimiba yokusingqongileyo, nokuba ngabantu bona gaqa ekufuneka bedlale indima enkulu ekuguquleni ubomi bokusingqongileyo, basebenzele ukuseka ulwahlulelwano (partnerships) oluya kuqinisekisa okokuba ixesha elizayo likhuselekile, likwanayo nempumelelo kunye nenzuzo.

Mininzi ke, Sihlalo namalungu ahloniphekileyo, imisitho ebanjwayo, sithetha nje, kumaphondo ngamaphondo eli lethu ngokuphathalele kulo mba wokusetyenziselwa, ukwamkela nokwazi ngoko ekuthethwa ngako, amanzi ke, ngokunxulumene nokuphucula nokuza nembono entsha ngolawulo olungcono lwamajelo amanzi. Ikhwelo lityala ke mawethu, kuba umngeni esiwenzayo, Sihlalo, ngowokuba uluntu luphela lume bume ukusasaza igospile yokuba amanzi ethu alawulwe ngcono, ukwenzela ukuba iinjongo zophuhliso zale nkulungwane sifikelele kuzo, ukuze isiqingatha soluntu esingafumani amanzi ngoku sifumane ngokupheleleyo amanzi ngonyaka ka-2015. Ndithetha kangaka nje ngamanzi ayinxalenye yokuba ezi fishi, uthetha ngazo mam’ uVersveld, ukuba angaphela anqongophale amanzi ngekhe uphinde uze apha endlwini uze kuthetha ngazo.

Siyathemba ke, Sihlalo namalungu ahloniphekileyo okokuba ootitshala bethu bohlangabezana nathi nale migaqo-nkqubo, bayidibanise kunye namabakala ngamabakala omsebenzi wabo, ze kwakhona bawafumane elulutho kubo amaphepha nemipapasho esasazwa ngamasebe ngamasebe kaRhulumente ngale miba.

Mandithethe ngokhenketho. Umngeni omkhulu woshishino lokhenketho kweli lizwe lethu ngowokuba sigxininise ukuyiqonda nokuyiqaphela into yokuba ukhenketho luza nemisebenzi, kwaye imisebenzi sisitshixo sozinzo lwesizwe kupolitiko, intlalo noqoqosho. Sihlalo, yinkolelo yethu ukuba apha kuMzantsi Afrika kubatyeleli abasibhozo kwilizwe eli, bephuma kumazwe angaphaya kwimida, kukho isithuba somsebenzi esinye esifumanekayo. Ukhenketho lubaluleke kakhulu xa uqaphela into yokuba ujika abakhenkethi abasibhozo babe zizigidi ezisibhozo. Uthetha ngentaphane yezithuba zomsebenzi ezivulekayo komnye wemiba yoshishino esebenzisa abantu. Yile nto kufuneka siyijongile into yokuba xa sibona aba bantu, oosomashishini nabantu bamanye amazwe beze kwenza nokuba yintoni, sichulumanche kuba banezakhono, kutsho kufumaneka imisebenzi. Masiyeke ukuba leqa sithi mabahambe baze kusigqibela imisebenzi, sibe singakwazi thina ukuyidala imisebenzi.

Luchulumancho, ke Sihlalo namalungu ahloniphekileyo, ukuqaphela ukuba kweli lizwe lethu kukho unxibelelwano kwabezoshishino kunye nokhenketho njengoko iBusines Trust, umbutho osekwe ngoongxowa-nkulu kwezoshishino kuMzantsi Afrika, ubeka ukhenketho kwinqanaba eliphezuli Kubalulekile okokuba, bekunye neSebe leMfundo, baxhase inkqubo (programme) yoqeqesho nokunikezelwa kwamabakala, oko kukuthi i`accreditation), ngokuqinisekisa ukunyuswa kwemigangatho yobungcali nobuchwepheshe kunye nenkonzo eyiyo kushishino ekufuneka lunike amava aphezulu nachulumanchisayo, omgangatho ophakamileyo kubakhenkethi bamazwe ngamazwe, abeza nengeniso encumisayo kakhulu kuMzantsi Afrika.

Kungokhenketho olululo, Sihlalo, apho inani labangaphangeliyo kumaphondo ethu liya kuthi lehle, kwande amathuba otyalo-mali, kuphuhle noqoqosho. Kuyachulumanchisa ke ukuqaphela ukuba inkulu intsebenziswano ekhoyo, phakathi koorhulumente bamaphondo kunye noomasipala, esele iqala ngoku ukuza neziphumo zokuqalisa kokusebenza kwe-Agenda 21, yokuba ucwangciso loqoqosho lube yinxenye yenkqubo yocwangciso loomasipala … (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Ms B N DLULANE: Chairperson, hon Minister and all the provincial delegates, let us commend what has been happening in Limpopo. This democracy is bringing us good things. We always see hon Member Nyakane representing MECs that find themselves unable to come to the House. That means they have considerable trust in him.

Coming back to today’s debate, one of our very important functions which was mandated to us as hon members of Parliament is to do a follow-up on the report of 8 January that was submitted at the 51st National Conference of the ANC and the President’s state of the nation address in Parliament as well as at the Lekgotla. All these re-asserted the ANC’s policy of creating a better life for all. These functions and policies include poverty reduction, renewal of production, economic regeneration and improving the quality of life of the people.

The main issue is change in the living conditions of people that will be created through sustained people-centred economic development that will ultimately create opportunities for poor people, so that the gap between the haves and the have-nots could be narrowed. I am talking on behalf of the national organisation here.

This week is known as National Environmental Week. The irony is that this year is internationally recognised as the year of water but two billion people in the world die because of circumstances related to it. In South Africa we say, “My environment is my life”. As this year is the International Year of Water, governments are encouraged to establish educational programmes about water conservation and preservation, management and protection thereof. Furthermore, there is a conference aimed at accelerating access to water in agreed-upon areas in all the provinces.

What is of paramount importance is that our people should understand that in our provincial governments we are seeking to ensure that there are changes in matters relating to the environment and that people themselves should form partnerships that would ensure that in future they are secured and successful and generate a profit.

There are many celebrations taking place in different provinces as we speak. They are about the use of water, education and improving as well as proposing new ideas about water management. This is a wake-up call, compatriots, that people in communities should wake up and spread the gospel about water management so that we can be able to successful in our development initiatives, and so that half the number of people for whom water is still inaccessible, can have it accessible to them by 2015. The reason I am talking so passionately about the subject is because these fish you are talking about, Mrs Versveld, will die and become extinct if there is no water.

We hope that our teachers will assist us in regard to these policies by way of integrating them in their syllabi, and that they will find Gazettes useful. I shall now talk about tourism. The big challenge in tourism in our country is for us to emphasise our understanding of the fact that tourism opens job opportunities and that jobs are the key to a sustainable politico- socioeconomic status in the country. Chairperson, it is our belief that in South Africa, for every eight tourists from different parts of the world, one job is created. Tourism is very important and if you look you will find that, converted, those tourists are equal to eight million rands. You will be talking about a number of jobs opening up in one aspect of business. That is why we have to note what these people, businesspeople and people from different countries are coming to do here and, therefore, be happy about it because there will be jobs available.

It is important, therefore, to make sure that there is communication between business and the tourism sector just as the Business Trust is doing by putting tourism in a very high position. It is important to note as well that, together with the Department of Education, they support training programmes and the process of accreditation by ensuring the upliftment of the standard of expertise and provide a good service for businesses that have to bring about an experience of high quality for tourists from different nations who bring in revenue to South Africa.

It is through tourism that the number of unemployed people in our provinces will be reduced and we can see an increase in investment opportunities that would lead to economic development. I note with joy that there already exists co-operation between provincial governments and municipalities, and that Agenda 21 is already producing results with regard to the matter that there should be …]

… the incorporation of tourism and economic planning into municipalities’ planning and implementation processes.

Ngolo hlobo, ukhenketho luza kukhuthaza uluntu lwamaphandle ukuze bona, kanye, bathabathe inxaxheba. Oomasipala baza kuba nenxaxheba yokufundisa nokusasaza ulwazi neengcaciso ngokusingqongileyo nangemveli (heritage) yethu. Ukanti okona kubalulekileyo kukuba kuza kubakho ukwanda okulinganayo jikelele kwimiba yokhenketho kuwo olithoba amaphondo.

Sihlalo namalungu ahloniphekileyo, xa kuhanjwa ngezi zikhokelo zingentla, ukhenketho lunganenxaxheba enkulu yokuba ngonyaka ka-2014 sibe isiqingatha sabantu abangaphangeliyo ngoku sisemisebenzini, ngakumbi, xa kumiselwa iinkqubo ezitshitshisa indlala zijongane ngqo nokususwa kwezinto eziza kukhomba emva kwinkqubo kandalashe we-apartheid, kuqinisekisa ukuthabatha inkxaxheba kwabamnyama kuqoqosho, abakhubazekileyo, amakhosikazi nolutsha. Ngolo hlobo singakwazi ukufikelela kuko xa siseka amashishini amancinane siwamisela ukuba abe nenkxaso enkulu kuqoqosho lwethu.

Xa ndiza kuhlala phantsi, ndithetha ngoshishino lweentlanzi. Noxa kwezinye iindawo kusekhona ukungeneliseki, kodwa manditsho ukuthi sihlalo nalamalungu ale Ndlu kuluvuyo nemiyeyeye kwakho ukuba singqine ngaphandle kwamathandabuzo ukuba iimbono nemimmiselo ka1955 yoMqulu weNkululeko (Freedom Charter) ibonakala iyinyaniso nanamhlanje njengoko kwamiselwa ngoko, kulungiselelwa eli xesha siphila kulo, ukuba ubutyebi beli lizwe lethu buya kubuyiselwa ebantwini balo.

Siyabona, kananjalo, kwicandelo leentlanzi kweli lizwe, njengoko sithetha nje kushishino leentlanzi inguqu yokubonakala kwamalungelo amathuba alinganayo ihamba kakuhle kuba yinkungu nelanga yeenkampani zabantu, abebebandezelekile kumaxa angaphambili. Ngoku baba vulelwe amathuba ngoku okuba nabo bathabathe inxaxheba ekuxhamleni kolu shishino, nto entsha ke leyo. Huntshu! Mphathiswa.

Kananjalo, siyazi okokuba kukhona aba bantu abazenza aba bantu ekuthiwa zii`front’ siqinisekile uza kubabamba ubaphose eziseleni ezimnyama. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[In that way, tourism will certainly encourage rural people to participate fully and wholeheartedly. Municipalities will have the responsibility of disseminating information about the environment and our heritage. What is important about this is that there will be equal increase and interest in matters of tourism in all nine provinces.

If things are done according to the guidelines that I have mentioned above, tourism would ensure that by 2014 half the number of that are unemployed now are in employment, especially if the programmes and processes that are introduced would be directly aimed at reducing poverty and hunger, and completely remove everything that carries the legacy of apartheid. Black people’s participation in developing the economy is important, and so is that of disabled persons, women and the youth, and that we could only achieve by establishing entrepreneurships and starting small businesses. That would certainly make an impact in the economy of this country.

In conclusion, I would like to say something about the fishing industry. Although there is still dissatisfaction in certain areas, I would like to say that it is with pleasure that we are witnessing all that was adopted in the Freedom Charter in 1955 that states that the national wealth of this country, the heritage of South Africans, shall be restored to the people.

We can see in the fishing industry that there are changes in that the historically disadvantaged people are getting equal opportunities in the fishing business. Opportunities have now been opened for them to take part in the business and enjoy the benefits; something that is new. We applaud you, hon Minister! In the same breath, I would like to say that we know that there are people who are fronting and we are certain that you are going to arrest them. [Applause.]]

The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AND TOURISM: Thank you very much, Chairperson. May I at the outset express gratitude to the members for their extremely useful comments, as well as interventions that have been made. I would like to express gratitude to Rev Moatshe for his kind words, especially towards the officials and members of the department.

The hon Sulliman spoke about the decline in the fishery sector in the Northern Cape. There are a few things that need to be said. Firstly, the department is working very closely with the provincial government on a number of interventions in that area in order to change the situation. But you will bear in mind that part of the difficulty has been that some of the bigger companies tend to move their processing facilities around. And when they move a processing facility out of a particular area, especially if it is a coastal fishing town or village, it does have a major impact as far as unemployment is concerned.

The other peculiar situation with the Northern Cape is that about 80% of the coastline is a diamond concession area held by De Beers and Alexkor. The eventual change in the status of the diamond concession area will create many opportunities for local people in terms of harvesting some of the coastal marine resources that exist there, and that is the matter which the department is working on, and giving consideration to, because if you take an area like Hondeklip Bay, which is one of the biggest settlements along that coastline, there is access to only 10km of the coastline for the people living under Hondeklip Bay. That is the situation, which, in the long term, is not sustainable.

For the Northern Cape particular attention is being given to mariculture, and the department is also of the view that there are lots of possible opportunities there. I am also pleased that you mentioned the issue of the transfrontier parks, and the impact that they have on the Northern Cape. Unfortunately I do not have the numbers available with regard to the impact as far as job creation is concerned. What would be available, though, from the Department is the poverty relief projects in and around transfrontier parks, and probably in the Northern Cape as a whole, that have been implemented in that province, and the jobs created. Those jobs we track very, very closely, so you will able to get all the numbers for those jobs. I think the department will have those available. The Northern Cape is one province which has worked very well with SA National Parks in order to maximise both the conservation value that national parks can bring, and also the tourism value that they can bring because of the brand national parks. There are a number of very important national parks in the Northern Cape: the Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park, and the Richtersveld Park which is a very unique mountain desert - it is unique in the world. Then, of course, the growing Namaqualand National Park. I say it is growing, because it is very much in its initial stages. That is a very important park, from a global point of view, because of the succulents in the Karoo, and the very rare plants that exist in that particular area. It has a very high level of endemism, and for a very long time it was thought that the fynbos kingdom, from a biodiversity point of view, is in a class of its own. That biodiversity in Namaqualand very often is now visited by some of the most prominent botanists from around the world, and it is now regarded as a biodiversity hot spot.

I am mentioning all of this, possibly to link up with the point that the hon De Wet made in response to many comments about national parks and provincial parks, namely that you will find that the Eastern Cape probably subsidises the parks in the province to the tune of R35 million, if my memory serves me right. KwaZulu-Natal, on the other hand, subsidise their parks to the extent of R200 million. Now if you take into account the correct point which you made, it is really the revenue-generating capacity of the provincial parks that would impact on the subsidy. Some of those principal parks in KwaZulu-Natal are absolutely jammed. One would wonder why it is that the revenue regeneration over the years has not in any way been comparable to what has been possible, for example, with parks in the Northern Cape. If you take the Kgalagadi National Park - which is very far, very distant - or the Augrabies Falls National Park, for both of those, I can assure you, if you make a call today, trying to get bookings for the next few months, you would not be able to. They have occupancies in the range of 90%. They are not a drain on taxpayers’ money. It is the manner in which you organise your park system, and how you link it to ecotourism that counts.

I believe that the Eastern Cape needs a major national park. It needs a major national park to bring in the critical mass. It is of a high biodiversity value. It is the most diverse province, from a biodiversity point of view, in the country. You have the Karoo and you have the coastal forests. You have the kind of national resources which should make the Eastern Cape an ecotourism mecca. But that is not the case. We have proposed the establishment of a Pondoland national park, for example, because of the importance of the Pondoland coast from a biodiveristy point of view and also because the coastal belt is not very useful from an agricultural point of view. Because of the unique natural features in the area and also because I believe that a Pondoland national park would put the parks system, conservation and biodiversity in the Eastern Cape on the international map, it has been proposed. This no provincial park will be able to do.

The province is opposed to the idea, which I cannot understand. It baffles my mind. We have been discussing this matter for years. If the province, for example, had to run that Augrabies Falls National Park it would simply be a drain on the provincial government’s resources. SA National Parks runs it, it takes all the risk, and unlike what anybody may think, this is not money-making. It is simply how you reduce the impact on the taxpayer, by reducing the subsidy. You do not get rich out of this thing, but how you make money out of it is by creating an economy around the park, by attracting tourists to come there. That is what is the most important thing. Up to now the national parks model has proven to be most successful, not just here, but around the world. You can think of national parks in the United States, where the concept really started, or wherever else. So, this is the matter that I think we would need to look at much more closely and in a manner that is in the best interests, both of conservation and economic growth.

I find it quite interesting, remembering previous interventions that the hon Versfeld had made, that she only spoke about the question of sharks, which is a rather marginal activity as far as fisheries are concerned. Frankly, a marginal activity does not really make a massive contribution to a GDP or anything of that sort. On the basis of her comments about sharks, she has made rather unfortunate statements about the marine and coastal management branch of the department. She is wrong in almost everything that she has said. Unfortunately there is no requirement in this House for people’s input to be logically consistent, or sensible for that matter. So I suppose she is not, technically speaking, out of order, but it is really not a matter on which I intend to engage with her, except to respond to her comment that she has been given the ``runaround’’ by the department.

Perhaps I should inform her that the department has the responsibility to engage with members of Parliament, to give information, not only to members of Parliament, but to the general public, and, in the spirit of Batho Pele, to serve everybody. But when a person becomes an absolute nuisance to the department to the extent that they prevent the department from doing its core work, which is poverty alleviation and growing the economy, there is no responsibility, on the part of the department, to entertain politically motivated people who have nothing more than nonsense value.

In fact, I have instructed the department simply to ignore all correspondence from the hon member. I hope they have carried out my instructions, and have not bothered themselves with it at all. If she has anything to say, she can always write to me. If it is the usual nonsense that she writes about, then I will ignore it too. [Laughter.] I am happy that she is being given the runaround and that is what should happen. Perhaps the members of the public should also know that, because she creates the wrong impression, namely that she has some sort of special status. She has no status. She has absolutely no influence in the department or in Government, or in any kind of policy. I intend keeping it that way.

I do not think that her party, the DA, is aware of some of the statements that she makes here, for example, on the banning of beach-driving. In the National Assembly, the DA supported the ban on beach driving very, very strongly. She is obviously out of sync with what her own party is saying, and she was speaking on behalf of her party here.

Let me say to the hon Bhengu that there is not a blanket ban on driving on the beach. The ban is on unregulated driving on the beach. So, for example, for any kind of bona fide work on the part of various kinds of inspectors and research workers and such things, permission has been granted. Where a province would approach me about a fishing competition, run by reputable people that we can control in a proper manner, we have usually taken the advice from the province as such. But you cannot have a situation where, because there is a sardine run, people do not go through the proper process. You have to apply. The regulations require you to apply for permission to drive a vehicle. In your application you have to say exactly what you intend doing. You cannot just write a friendly letter to the Minister and say:`` Please let me drive on the beach’’. That is not what the regulations require, because that is not one of the criteria. The regulations also require that you should advertise your intention, so that other users of the beach would be able to give some feedback and respond to that, because other people might not like it. So, where people do not follow the procedure, they will obviously not get permission, and where they do follow the procedure, but it is not within the objects of the regulations, they would not be commissioned either.

The hon Mokitlane from the Free State may want to be informed that the Vredefort Dome is in fact very special. It is one of the largest and most ancient meteorite impact sites in the world. The only one larger than that is the one in the Gulf of Mexico which is under water. This is the biggest observable impact creator in the world. So, it is of very great significance. Like the many wonders of our country, many of us, and many ordinary people do not know about it, and have not been exposed to it. That is partly because of the years and years of apartheid propaganda. Apartheid and colonial propaganda was that anything good, great and important was somewhere in Europe, and it could not possibly be here. That was a long legacy, a great deficit that we have to overcome now. That is why the declaration of the Vredefort Dome as a World Heritage Site will bring international attention, but importantly, more awareness to the South African population about this matter. It reminds me about the other point that you made, namely that you did not know about Golden Gate, while you did not live far away from it. It is the same thing all over the country. You will find that the local people do not know about the great wonders on their own doorsteps.

September, which is tourism month - 27 September is world tourism day which we extend for the whole month - is used as a way of creating awareness about tourism among South Africans. It is really a domestic campaign that we run for a whole month, together with the provinces. I think that it has made some impact in the past. We usually have quite a lot of media coverage, and you will find every morning there will be a different place that is covered on morning TV. So, that is partly what we are trying to do. But, I think that there is a great deal more that needs to be done.

Regarding the point that the hon De Wet has made about SMMEs in the Eastern Cape, and the blockages there being the lack of access to funding, there are various incentive schemes available for tourism enterprises. In fact, the department last year, at an occasion in Durban, released a publication on all of the different incentive schemes and support schemes and financial schemes that are available for SMMEs in the tourism field. It has all been compiled into one document, because many people do not know about them.

If an SMME comes to you and says, ``I am now trying to set up a business. Where do you think I could access capital from?’’ people do not know what to say. So we have brought all that information together from different government departments and from all the parastatal financial institutions. It is available on the department’s website. I do not know if we have run out hard copies. It deals with what the DTI does and what Khula does, etc.

I should also mention to you that the tourism enterprise programme which is funded and run by the Business Trust is one whose core business is to bring businesses to small enterprises. So, if there is a small enterprise, for example, somebody has set up a bed and breakfast, but is not getting customers, they would create those link-ups. That is all that they do. They do not fund anybody, but they create the linkages for people, and put small enterprises into networks. They have done extremely well. They have helped about 646 more enterprises over the past few years worth tens of millions of rands - in fact hundreds of millions of rands, worth of business. And then of course there is the Tourism Indaba where we subsidise small SMMEs to showcase themselves to an international audience. We have increased the number of the SMMEs every year. Just a few years ago there were just about 30 or so SMMEs in the year 2000. This year, at the Durban Indaba, we had about 250 or so SMMEs. So, that is another opportunity that has been created. The hon Scott raised the question about the misuse of the Greater St Lucia Wetland Park, and unregulated use of holiday cottages by various sorts of people, including government departments. I was very interested in those comments, but not because it is news to me. I have heard about this matter previously, but it is a matter on which I thought we have made much more progress than you say we have. Obviously we have not made much progress if you say that. You are from the province, and you are the chairperson of the committee. We will act on this matter immediately.

I will give an instruction to the deputy director-general responsible, Ms Pam Yako who, I take it, has heard your comments, not to do an investigation, a study or anything of that sort, but simply to instruct that those facilities be closed down. We will do that and act on it immediately, because I don’t think that we would be able to justify it in any way. In any case, we are on the verge of major breakthroughs in as far as investments are concerned in the Greater St Lucia Wetland Park, and such activities would not be consistent with what we are trying to do.

In the Greater St Lucia Wetland Park area, because of the spatial development initiative over the past few years, very substantial sums of Government money, from different Government departments, have gone into that area - whether it was the Department of Transport spending on the road network, or the Department of Health on the malaria eradication programme, which is one which the World Health Organisation has been very impressed with and is recommending be used elsewhere, or in relation to various other sorts of work. We are committed, because that is one of the poorest parts of the country, to ensure that improvements are made. I’m quite certain that, together with MEC Mabuyakhulu, we would be able to proceed at a much faster pace than we have been able to up to now.

I’m happy that you raised the question of tyres because it’s a very big problem. We can’t use the same tactics as with plastic bags. We can’t ban the use of tyres, because what will motorcars drive on? We can’t have a minimum thickness and such things. So, what we are thinking of doing - and we want to do it this year - is finding a way of adding value to the used tyres that can no longer be used. There is technology for the recycling of tyres. There is massive, and very high-quality technology, and I know that attempts are being made now to import technology from Germany to a plant in Gauteng in order to recycle tyres. The recycled tyre products can then be turned into all sorts of things.

So, what we are thinking of doing is to use a kind of deposit system so that when you buy a tyre, you would at the same time pay a deposit, which you would get back when you return the used tyre. In simple words, that’s the model of the whole thing. So, if a youngster or an unemployed person or anybody sees a tyre lying around, they would be able to take it in and collect a deposit. That’s the best way to get it out of the environment, and out of landfill sites. They shouldn’t be in landfill sites because this is a valuable product that we are throwing away. It’s a very valuable product. It can be recycled. We recycle, in this country, 90% of paper and paper products like board. There was a time when people used to throw paper and board away. Now you find that there are people who go around literally looking for this stuff, because there is value to it. The recycling industry cannot get enough. They are buying it.

We only recycle about 20% of plastics, but that’s something we hope will increase. But plastic products, once they get recycled, are used to make other plastic products. For example, the municipality of the Tshwane Metro has now decided that all of their refuse bags will be made out of recycled plastic. This creates a demand for recycled material, but it also saves the metro money, because recycled plastic is cheaper than virgin plastic. It’s not more expensive. So once we begin to look at the economics of this, it begins to make economic sense to do recycling. We will continue to put a great deal of emphasis on that.

The hon Dlulane spoke about the importance of the issue of water and water access. She’ll be pleased to know that, at the United Nations Commission on Sustainable Development, held about a month ago, and which was chaired by myself, which had to develop a work programme for implementing the decisions of the Johannesburg World Summit, a work programme was developed, spanning more than a decade, which allocates tasks and responsibilities to different international agencies and UN agencies. It also decides on what the issues are that we should tackle first because we took many decisions in Johannesburg, but what do we give priority to? For the next two years, priority will be given to the issue of water, on an international level, for the reasons for which you have said that water is important.

Thank you very much, I have enjoyed the debate. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon Minister, thank you very much. On behalf of this House I say that all of us have enjoyed this debate. Some two days ago I was talking to the chairperson of the portfolio committee in the National Assembly. She told me, ``You know, chair of the caucus, one thing that I must tell you is that the members of your own caucus do not know this country.’’ We are not really touring the country. We do not know the country, and from this debate today I have learnt for the first time from Mr Mokitlane that there are these things that are valuable in the Free State. But I also told him that even those members that are from Gauteng don’t even know that in Gauteng we have one area which is a World Heritage Site, Sterkfontein Caves. Some of the people don’t know where it is. So, it is a challenge to us. Thank you very much once more, hon Minister. We have enjoyed the debate.

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 12:24

                             __________

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS: National Council of Provinces:

1. Membership of Committees:

 (1)    The following changes have been made to the membership of  Joint
     Committees, viz:


     Budget:


     Appointed: Botha, C-S; Mahlangu, M J (Alt).


     Constitutional Review:


     Appointed: Lever, L G; Botha, C-S (Alt).


     Defence:


     Appointed: Lever, L G.


     Ethics and Members' Interests:


     Appointed: Gouws, E C (Alt); Lever, L G.


     Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of  Children,  Youth  and
     Disabled Persons:


     Appointed: Raju, N M; Gouws, E C (Alt).


     Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women:


     Appointed: Botha, C-S (Alt).


 (2)    The following changes have been made to the membership of Select
     Committees, viz:


     Economic and Foreign Affairs:


     Appointed: Dlulane, B N (Alt); Nogumla, R Z;  Themba,  M  P  (Alt);
     Tolo, B J.
     Discharged: Taabe, T B.


     Education and Recreation:


     Appointed: Gouws, E C; Khunou, N P; Nogumla, R Z (Alt);  Themba,  M
     P; Tolo, B J (Alt).
     Discharged: Sogoni, H T.


     Local Government and Administration:


     Appointed: Dlulane,  B  N  (Alt);  Kondlo,  N  C;  Krumbock,  G  R;
     Mkhalipi, B J.


     Members' and Provincial Legislative Proposals:


     Appointed: Kondlo, N C; Krumbock, G R; Mkhalipi, B J; Taabe, T B.


     Public Services:


     Appointed: Gouws, E C (Alt); Dlulane,  B  N  (Alt);  Kondlo,  N  C;
     Krumbock, G R (Alt); Nogumla, R Z; Windvoël, V V Z.
     Discharged: Themba, M P.


     Security and Constitutional Affairs:


     Appointed: Dlulane,  B  N  (Alt);  Kondlo,  N  C;  Krumbock,  G  R;
     Mkhalipi, B J.
     Social Services:


     Appointed: Gouws, E C; Khunou, N P; Kondlo, N C  (Alt);  Themba,  M
     P; Tolo, B J (Alt).
     Discharged: Nogumla, R Z; Sogoni, H T.

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces:

Papers:

1. The Minister of Finance:

 (1)    Report and Financial Statements of the Sasria for 2002.


 (2)    Government Notice No 631  published  in  Government  Gazette  No
     24845 dated 16 May 2003: Borrowing powers of  Water  Boards  listed
     under Schedule 3, Part B of  the  Public  Finance  Management  Act,
     1999 (Act No 1 of 1999).
 (3)    Proclamation No R.34 published in Government  Gazette  No  24772
     dated 17 April 2003: Commencement of the Division of  Revenue  Act,
     2003 (Act No 7 of 2003).

1. The Minister for Provincial and Local Government:

 Strategic  Plan  for   the   Department   of   Local   Government   and
 Administration for 2003-2006.

1. The Minister for the Public Service and Administration:

 Medium term Strategic Plan of the  Department  of  Public  Service  and
 Administration for 2003-2006.