THURSDAY, 19 FEBRUARY 2004 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 14:06.

The Chairperson of the NCOP took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

Dr P J C NEL: Voorsitter, die Nuwe NP sal in die volgende sitting van die Raad voorstel:

Dat die Raad -

(1) met dank kennis neem van die Parlement van Suid-Afrika se poging om veeltaligheid te bevorder deur eerskomende Maandag, 23 Februarie 2004, ‘n konferensie hieroor in die Parlement te hou;

(2) die organiseerders, die voorsitters en sprekers ‘n suksesvolle konferensie toewens en glo dit sal grootliks bydra om veeltaligheid ‘n werklikheid in Suid-Afrika te maak. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Dr P J C NEL: Chairperson, the NNP will be proposing at the next sitting of the Council:

That the Council -

(1) notes with gratitude the effort by the Parliament of South Africa to promote multilingualism by holding a conference on this in Parliament this coming Monday, 23 February 2004; and

(2) wishes the organisers, the chairpersons and speakers success with the conference and believes it will greatly contribute to making multilingualism a reality in South Africa.]

    HIJACKING OF PARAMEDICS AT IMBALI TOWNSHIP, PIETERMARITZBURG

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) notes with shock media reports that two paramedics were hijacked and forced to have sex with each other - this took place in Pietermaritzburg-Imbali Township;

(2) notes with dismay that one of the culprits raped the female paramedic and robbed the paramedics of their belongings before driving away in the vehicle;

(3) notes that this was the ninth hijacking incident of an ambulance in eight months’ time;

(4) believes such incidents to be very traumatic and degrading experiences for the victims - they show the level of the moral degeneration and the lack of respect for human dignity in our society; and

(5) appeals to the Department of Health to give the moral support needed by these public servants and their families, and further appeals to the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development to arrest the culprits and give them the most heavy sentences as they do not deserve to be part of our communities.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Is there any objection to that motion? Is that an objection, Chief Whip?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, the culprits have to be arrested and have to go through the process of law. We endorse the sentiments, but I do not think that the resolution or the recommendation is appropriately phrased.

I would like to move as an amendment:

That paragraph (5) be substituted by the following paragraphs:

(5) appeals to the Department of Health to give the moral support needed by these public servants and their families; and

(6) further appeals to the Department of Safety and Security to take swift and appropriate action to arrest the perpetrators, and believes that, if those arrested are convicted, a severe punishment should be imposed on them.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mrs Vilakazi, would you object to such an amendment to the resolution?

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: The amendment is just within the scope of my motion without notice, so I take it.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Is there any objection to the motion as amended? No objection.

Amendment agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

Motion, as amended, agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution, namely: -

(1) notes with shock media reports that two paramedics were hijacked and forced to have sex with each other - this took place in Pietermaritzburg-Imbali Township;

(2) notes with dismay that one of the culprits raped the female paramedic and robbed the paramedics of their belongings before driving away in the vehicle;

(3) notes that this was the ninth hijacking incident of an ambulance in eight months’ time;

(4) believes such incidents to be very traumatic and degrading experiences for the victims - they show the level of the moral degeneration and the lack of respect for human dignity in our society;

(5) appeals to the Department of Health to give the moral support needed by these public servants and their families; and

(6) further appeals to the Department of Safety and Security to take swift and appropriate action to arrest the perpetrators, and believes that, if those arrested are convicted, a severe punishment should be imposed on them.

CONGRATULATIONS TO MINISTER OF FINANCE AND STAFF ON WELL-BALANCED BUDGET

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mrs E N LUBIDLA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

(1) congratulates the Minister of Finance on the delivery of a prudent and well-balanced budget;

(2) conveys its admiration for the sterling work done by the Minister and his staff in preparing a budget which again confirms the commitment of the current Government to progressively direct the country’s public resources towards meeting the needs of the country’s poor;

(3) acknowledges that while no budget will ever satisfy everybody, this budget gives something for everybody under very difficult conditions;

(4) agrees that the budget will further promote South Africa’s competitive advantage and will create conditions for faster economic growth and job creation;

(5) expresses its unreserved praise for the proposals to expand social spending in areas such as housing, water, education, health and community services, and believes this will provide the masses of our people meaningful relief from crushing poverty; and

(6) believes the 2004 budget is a reflection of the massive progress we have made during the first decade of our freedom, and confirms our conviction that by working together over the next ten years, we can and will do more to build a better life for all.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

RATIFICATION OF DECISION TO FAST-TRACK REVENUE BILL IN ORDER FOR IT BE PASSED DURING THE CURRRENT TERM (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move the motion printed in my name on the Order Paper:

That the Council ratifies the decision the Joint Subcommittee of the Joint Programme Committee adopted on 18 February 2004 in accordance with Joint Rule 216(2), namely that the Division of Revenue Bill [B 4 - 2004] (National Assembly - sec 76) be fast-tracked by, where necessary, shortening any period within which any step in the legislative process relating to the Bill must be completed, in order to make it possible for the Bill to be passed by both Houses during the current term of Parliament (Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, 18 February 2004, p 214).

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: There is no speakers’ list on the motion. I shall therefore put the question. The question is that the motion be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast the votes of their provinces. I note that all delegations indeed have members present.

In accordance with Rule 75, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they wish to do so. Is there any province wishing to make a declaration of vote? There is none.

We proceed therefore to voting on the question. This will be done in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads should indicate whether they vote in favour, against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms N C KONDLO: In favour, Chairperson.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Free State?

Mr T S SETONA: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng? Ms D M RAMODIBE: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Siyavumelana. [We are in agreement.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?

Mrs C NKUNA: Limpopo i khou tendelana nahei repoto. [Limpopo supports this decision.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?

Ms M P THEMBA: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?

Mrs E N LUBIDLA: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?

Rev P MOATSHE: Re a tlatsa. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?

Mr K D S DURR: Western Cape supports.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution. [Applause.]

I hope hon members realise this means a great deal of hard work for hon members to properly process that particular Bill.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

CONSIDERATION OF NATIONAL GAMBLING BILL AND REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON ECONOMIC AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS THEREON

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Thank you. Chairperson, hon members, I am very pleased to be able to come to the House towards its end. I’ve always enjoyed my appearances here despite some probing questions and misleading information from the opposition, obviously, but it’s always been great fun. [Laughter.]

Chairperson, the National Gambling Bill that is being tabled today replaces the National Gambling Act of 1996, which has served us well for the past seven years. The new Bill seeks to improve on our joint ability to effectively regulate this very large cash-based industry by introducing new measures to control illegal gambling, clarifying the jurisdiction of national and provincial regulators, and enhancing co-operative governance.

It also establishes new mechanisms to deal with potentially negative socioeconomic consequences of gambling in our communities. The Bill is a product of close co-operation for the national and provincial government and has resulted from extensive consultation.

The Constitution established gambling as an activity regulated concurrently by national and provincial government. The decision made in 1994 to legalise gambling was partially based on the potential benefits that could flow from the industry. Four public policy objectives were identified which would be met by the industry. These objectives included the promotion of black economic empowerment, the creation of employment, the creation of new fixed investments and infrastructure, and the generation of revenue.

The gambling industry today is an industry that generates about R7 billion worth of turnover, and is a significant employer, accounting for about 50 000 direct and indirect jobs. The industry contributes significant revenues to provincial coffers and has directly generated almost R12 billion in new fixed investment and infrastructure.

These investments have yielded not only new hotels and conference centres, but also the upgrading of roads and other social and economic infrastructure in rural areas, with facilities such as community sports and recreational facilities, and arts and craft centres.

With the growth of the industry and its contribution to the economy, however, we have also begun to see some of the negative socioeconomic consequences of gambling. The review of the National Gambling Act and our ability to address emerging challenges after seven years of implementation have therefore come at the right time as we are testing and evaluating the impact of this industry.

The National Gambling Act of 1996 was enacted at a time when the principles of the Constitution and the need for co-operative governance were yet untested. In 1996 the focus was on eradicating the large illegal gambling industry that had developed under the old regime.

While the illegal industry has been largely brought under control, we now face new challenges, namely that of minimising negative socioeconomic consequences jointly with the socially responsible industry, and to ensure proper and effective oversight of an industry that is primarily cash-based. Therefore, the new Bill seeks to address some of these issues. The key issues that we are looking at is clarifying the roles between national and provincial regulators, creating common norms and standards for provincial licensing activities, establishing mechanisms for co-operative governance, implementing enhanced measures of oversight and control, and addressing proactively some of the negative socioeconomic consequences of gambling.

Let me briefly touch on each of these areas. In addressing the socioeconomic costs of gambling, the Bill introduces a number of measures to minimise the socioeconomic cost. In particular, it provides for enhanced protection of minors, prohibiting access to gambling areas and access to gambling activities; restrictions on granting of credit to gamblers; a scheme of exclusion whereby addictive gamblers can exclude themselves or a court can order a person, upon request from a dependant, to be excluded from access to gambling activities; restrictions on advertising and promotion of gambling activities in order to prevent persons from being induced to gamble, and the setting of standards for gambling premises, including, for example, how the gambling floor should be separated from other activities and what notices must be posted.

These new measures are aimed primarily at prevention, but also provide remedies. The Bill imposes an explicit obligation on the National Gambling Board to monitor the negative socioeconomic impact and to conduct broad- based education programmes to educate the public about the risks and potential consequences of gambling.

These activities will provide the basis for joint policy-making between national and provincial Ministers at the National Gambling Policy Council. Other measures to limit the potential socioeconomic costs also include requirements for licensing decisions, such as the impact of proposed gambling activities on the community.

Furthermore, in recognition of the potentially detrimental impact that the introduction of limited payout machines, LPMs, may have on society, the Bill requires the phased implementation of these machines, with each phase being punctuated by socioeconomic impact assessments.

The Bill further requires provincial licensing authorities to evaluate commitments by industry to black economic empowerment and to combat the incidence of addictive and compulsive gambling when considering a licence or a licence renewal. The Bill also enables provincial regulators to impose additional conditions where these commitment have not been met.

The Bill introduces measures to enhance control over the gambling industry. These measures include the establishment of a national register of gambling machines, which will track every gambling machine throughout the course of its useful life. It is expected that this mechanism will assist significantly with the monitoring and control of illegal gambling and the use of illegal machines.

The national register of gambling machines is further strengthened by a prohibition on the possession or ownership of unregistered machines which, in turn, will facilitate the confiscation of illegal machines by provincial regulators and the SAPS. In addition, the re-enactment of the requirement that all LPM machines are linked to a national central electronic monitoring system will ensure that we are able to detect any tampering with the machines and their payouts; and ensure the accurate statement of revenues for taxation purposes and also the detection of money-laundering.

Another key object of the Bill is to clarify the roles of national and provincial regulators and to eliminate, where possible and constitutionally feasible, any duplication and overlap. In this regard, the Bill introduces a scheme of national licences for manufacturers, testing agents of gambling equipment and employees in the gambling industry.

While the National Gambling Board sets the criteria for the licences and the evaluation, the Bill provides for provincial licensing authorities to issue all licences, whether national or provincial.

The role of the National Gambling Board is to monitor and oversee the industry, its socioeconomic impact and the effectiveness of provincial regulators, and to advise the National Gambling Policy Council on matters of concern and policy accordingly. Finally, the Bill seeks to harmonise provincial activities by introducing norms and standards for provincial licensing activities.

In Chapter 4 of the Bill, we seek to give expression to co-operative governance by creating the National Gambling Policy Council. The council is an intergovernmental forum headed by the Minister and constituted by the members of the executive council responsible for gambling in each province. The council’s functions are to develop national norms and standards for the gambling industry, to develop national policy in respect of the gambling industry, and to promote intergovernmental relations in respect of the gambling industry.

The National Gambling Bill thus gives expression to the objectives that I have outlined at the beginning of my speech, namely, enhanced oversight and control of the gambling industry, improved co-operative governance and the minimisation of the negative socioeconomic consequences of gambling. I would like to express my sincere thanks to members of the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs. They have helped us to steer the legislation to this point, and their valuable contributions in the form of many technical amendments and adjustments have been of great merit.

I would also like to thank my provincial colleagues and their officials for their assistance and their inputs, and also the DTI team and the National Gambling Board for their hard work. I would like to pay a special tribute to many people in the industry and various social groups that have really gone out of their way to ensure that we address the economic needs and the reality of this industry while ensuring social responsibility. I would strongly commend this Bill to the House. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr B J TOLO: Chairperson, hon Minister and your Deputy in absentia, hon members, special delegates, ladies and gentlemen, as we bid farewell to the first decade of our democracy and prepare ourselves for the dawn of the next one, we proudly do so, elated that our Government has done well enough for our people so as to shame the doubting Thomases. We enter the next decade, confident of the fact that the apartheid system, together with its vestiges, finally reside in the museum of history, alongside the spinning wheel.

Prior to 1994, gambling was a legal activity in the then so-called independent homelands. While this activity brought untold suffering to the poor in those areas, we were alive to the fact that it also created much- needed jobs. With the advent of democracy, Government was faced with two choices: to legalise gambling in the whole of South Africa, or ban it, even in the parts of the country where it was a legal activity before. It was decided then that gambling was going to be legalised, provided it fulfilled certain policy objectives, as the Minister indicated. The policy objectives were, firstly, that it must stop being a lily-white industry and conform to black economic empowerment principles; secondly, that it must create jobs; thirdly, that it must create new fixed investments and infrastructure; and lastly, that it must create revenue for the country. Government further recognised the potential damage gambling could cause to the country if its proliferation was left unchecked, hence the need for its proper regulation while fulfilling the above-mentioned conditions.

Since its legalisation in 1994, gambling has to a large extent met the policy objectives set by Government. However, it also became evident that it also had and still has unintended consequences. A need arose for the ANC Government to further intervene with the aim of mitigating the problems caused by gambling. The most appropriate way of intervention would be by way of strengthening legislation and by way of amendments to the existing legislation. However, in the process of doing so, it became very clear that there was a need for a new Bill which would contain both provisions of the old one and new policy positions of Government. It is for this reason that we have a new Gambling Bill in this House today.

A cursory look at the gambling industry today will reveal that about 43% of the industry is owned by black people. It has also created about 50 000 jobs, as the Minister has indicated. However, we want to hasten to say that BEE empowerment in this industry is not yet widespread. It is always only a tiny minority of people who get empowered and sometimes one and the same people are empowered. The House will be shocked to hear that not one of the casinos in both the Free State and North West has a BEE component. We must call upon Sun International to operate in accordance with policy positions of our Government.

The Bill itself is a genuine attempt by Government, through the Department of Trade and Industry, to realise the lofty ideals of bettering the lives of our people without compromising the healthy social fibre of our society. Problem gambling is a serious cancer that is gradually eroding our communities, especially those that are in the proximity of casinos. Research has shown that in countries where gambling is legal, for every problem gambler there are about 12 people who are affected. Those are family members and friends.

We are told that compulsive and addictive gambling is on the increase in South Africa. This piece of legislation is meant to curb such tendencies. It provides for voluntary exclusion by people who have a problem with gambling. It further provides for court-ordered exclusion. We argued that court-ordered exclusions cannot happen in High Courts, as the majority of affected people are ordinary people who, more often than not, would not be able to litigate in High Courts. Ordinary magistrates’ courts should, as the Bill now indicates, be empowered to do this as well.

We have in this country countless unlicensed gambling activities taking place. These activities take place in unlicensed premises and, to crown it all, they also allow minors to participate. When this Bill becomes law, there will be an abrupt end to all these immoral activities. Our thanks go to the department for this.

The Bill also introduces national standards for gambling premises to address the whole question of overstimulation of gambling. The location of ATMs within a casino is a serious cause for concern. These ATMs have facilities to draw money only, and you cannot deposit money in them. They are therefore there to encourage people to use all their savings. We are happy that when this Bill becomes law, ATMs will be disallowed on the floor where gambling is taking place so as to save our people from losing their hard-earned savings.

Limited payout machines are another sore spot on the gambling industry. It is sore because they will be within reach of the poorest of the poor, even in far-flung areas in our country. These people were hitherto protected from gambling because of the distance to casinos. It is our considered view that these people need to be protected, hence our call for the gradual introduction of limited payout machines in the entire country; and that there should be a mechanism for an ongoing socioeconomic impact assessment on the use of limited payout machines so that, if they have a very negative impact on the people, their introduction can either be stopped or slowed down. To further strengthen control and supervision, these machines will be linked to a national central electronic monitoring system.

The current regulatory framework has shortcomings as each provincial regulatory authority has its own legislation and, as a result, there is lack of coherence in regulating the industry nationally. The new provisions of the Bill seek to deal exactly with this problem. These provide for the interrelationship between provincial regulatory agencies and the national board, and introduce uniform licensing norms and standards in all provinces. The Bill, for the first time, introduces the system of national licensing and a national governmental consultative body - the National Gambling Policy Council.

We will remember that in some instances Parliament has been accused of passing laws which are impossible to police. To ensure that there is proper policing and adherence to the provisions of this law, the Bill provides for the establishment of a national inspectorate to monitor compliance.

To conclude, this Bill promotes the principle of fair competition. As we all know, fair competition is essential for proper economic growth and the Bill supports that principle, as it states in clause 54(1) that when considering an application for a licence other than an employment licence, a provincial authority must consider whether approving the application is likely to substantially effect competition in the gambling industry generally, or in respect of the proposed activity within the province in the case of a provincial licence, or within the Republic in the case of national licence. As a select committee, we commend this Bill to the House as it will go a long way in regulating the industry in order to bring proper balance between it and the plight of our poor. We also want to indicate that this was not an easy Bill. I am sure that the Minister will attest to this. Yes, the department did a good job and we want to congratulate them. We ask this House to pass this Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr J AULSEBROOK (KwaZulu-Natal): Madam Chair, hon Minister, we in KwaZulu- Natal recognise the need for a new national gambling Bill as the National Gambling Act of 1996 was drafted at the introduction of regulated gaming in this country. Much has transpired since then. As this industry develops, regulators need to re-evaluate its state of play.

We welcome special aspects of this Bill, such as the prohibition, requirements and standards to reduce the harmful social consequences of compulsive and addictive gambling. It is unfortunate that in attempting to achieve this goal, the department introduced draft 11 which, in attempting to deal with these negative social impacts, seems to have been misguided, missed the mark and caused unnecessary delays in the implementation of this Bill and its passage through this House. We were hoping that we would have got it through last year.

The other aspects which we should appreciate in the Bill are the attempts to limit the overstimulation of gambling. This is a serious problem. Not only do we need to look at this Bill, but possibly also at our Lotteries Act, and particularly apply similar clauses on which we are having hearings. Here I refer to clause 15, the advertising clause.

Other welcome aspects are the measures that assist provinces in dealing with illegal gambling. I think this Bill goes a long way, certainly, in introducing uniform licensing norms. The particular one that we support is the licensing of employees nationally, in accordance with Chapter 2, Part E. This will certainly facilitate the movement of staff nationally. This Bill, when it was originally introduced, encompassed the horse racing industry and attempted to deal with it. We are pleased that it was removed. However, we would certainly appeal to the Minister that when dealing with horse racing, he should consider introducing a national horse racing Bill as separate from this Bill. We wouldn’t like to see this Bill become too convoluted and complicated, as the horse racing industry has peculiar characteristics of its own.

However, I must say that of concern to KwaZulu-Natal is that in attempting to set norms and standards, the Bill tends to impinge or even prescribe to provinces on matters that are regarded as provincial competencies. I refer here to clause 26(1) which instructs the Minister to make regulations in respect to clauses 26(2)(a), 26(2)(b), 26(2)(c) and 26(2)(d).

These clauses deal with the phased roll-out of limited payout machines, LPMs, and the establishment of a mechanism for ongoing socioeconomic impact assessments relative to LPMs. While we certainly support phased or gradual roll-out, and we certainly would insist that an assessment and impact assessment on the negative social aspects be in place, we believe that this should be a provincial responsibility and trust that the Minister and his regulators will delegate this function to provinces.

Also of concern was the exemption in clause 50 of brothers and sisters'' as excluded family members. We have had explanations that this impacted on certain provinces that had already been granted licences. We felt that clause 51(2) would cater for that and offer those provinces an opportunity to remedy the situation, but the logic behind excluding brother and sister’’ escaped us.

Speaking of clause 51(2), we were concerned with the timeframe of two years given for a licensee to remedy an irregularity. It’s the time period of three years that is really of concern, because a person could continue profiting from a situation for three whole years, when he should not have initially been entitled to a licence in the first place. We didn’t understand that.

We appeal to the Minister that he should find an amicable solution regarding the pending conflict between our province’s CMS operator, route and site licences, and the National Gambling Board in respect of clause 27 and specifically clause 27(4). Little purpose would be served if we had to turn to either constitutional courts or courts of law to resolve this issue. I’m sure it can be resolved amicably.

Finally, I would like to say that, in supporting the Bill, we would like to also thank the staff of the department and, in particular, Ms Ludin for the co-operative and constructive manner in which she engaged with us while dealing with this Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]

Ms D M RAMODIBE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, comrades, members, special delegates, ladies and gentlemen, this year of celebrating the 92nd anniversary of our movement, the 10th anniversary of democracy and the first decade of freedom, is marked by the ANC as a very significant year.

In terms of the Freedom Charter, which says that the people shall share in the wealth of the country; that all other industry and trade shall be controlled to assist the wellbeing of the people; and, that all people shall have equal rights to trade where they choose, these are exactly what the ANC-led Government is aiming to achieve through this Bill.

The National Gambling Bill’s objectives are to provide for the co- ordination of concurrent national and provincial legislative competence over matters relating to casinos, racing and gambling, and to provide for the continued regulation of those matters; establish certain uniform norms and standards applicable to national and provincial regulation, and licensing of certain gambling activities; provide for the creation of additional uniform norms and standards applicable throughout the Republic of South Africa; retain the National Gambling Board; repeal the National Gambling Act of 1996; and, establish the national gambling policy council and provide for matters incidental thereto.

The impact of gambling on the social welfare of our families is a matter of serious concern. In a socioeconomic impact assessment study on gambling, reported problems that were experienced included pensioners who gamble with the little money they have, illegal casinos and many complaints from welfare organisations.

With our country’s high unemployment rate of 29%, many people believe that gambling is their salvation. The average gambler in South Africa is between 30 to 50 years old, earns less than R2 500 per month and spends on average 10% of his or her income to win just R50. One in every seven borrows money to gamble, whilst one in every four gambles with money normally used for household purposes. The impact of this behaviour on the poor and marginalised communities is devastating.

When we took over the responsibility of governing this country in 1994, we had a common vision and clear objectives on support mechanisms. We constantly strived to enhance the spirit of entrepreneurship, a civil service and community development workers that would reinforce the programmes of Government.

In his presidential speech, the President emphasised that, almost 10 years after its liberation from a white minority rule, our country still faces many challenges. Many of our people are unemployed. Many of our people continue to live in poverty. Violence against persons in all its forms continues to plague especially those sections of our population who are poor and live in socially depressed communities.

It is the responsibility of Government to protect its citizens, especially the vulnerable. Although gambling premises are situated outside townships so that they are not easily reached, pensioners are being provided with transport and bused to casinos.

It is for these reasons that the Government has come up with a Bill in order to be able to regulate the industry so as to avoid abuse from either side. Society and the economy are protected against overstimulation of the latent demand for gambling, and the licensing of gambling activities is transparent, fair and equitable.

Again, when considering an application for a licence other than an employment licence, there must be a commitment to black economic empowerment or to combating the incidence of addictive and compulsive gambling. The committee urged the removal of ATM machines near the gambling venues. It was, however, not clear how far they would be situated. Another problem with the ATMs, which has already been mentioned by my colleague, is that in casinos players can only withdraw money to play, but cannot deposit it into a machine.

Gauteng welcomes the fact that most of the concerns raised have been addressed by the department, notwithstanding the fact that a few of them were rejected. Gauteng supports the Bill. [Applause.]

Dr E A CONROY: Hon Chairperson and colleagues, hon Minister, the gambling industry in South Africa is still at a developmental stage. Most impact studies were conducted almost four years ago and since then a number of changes have taken place, such as an increase in legalised operating casinos from 22 in the year 2000 to 31 currently. Although the National Lottery was launched in March 2000, it has since increased to two weekly draws and, in addition, the roll-out of the so-called limited payout machines was initiated in June last year.

It remains a pity that these one-armed bandits, as the Americans so rightly refer to them, were placed in operation with such undue haste, without any countrywide research being available on how they would really affect communities.

Current information available reveals that the gambling industry has made a considerable contribution to the South African economy in the form of direct transfers to Government and by creating employment. Money transferred to provincial and national Government ultimately means that more resources are available for service delivery, while employment directly benefits families and households.

However, it is easier to scientifically calculate the impact of gambling on the economy than determining its social impact. Determining the social costs of gambling remains a challenge, and available research is silent on the cost of treatment for compulsive gambling or the effect on the economy of days missed from work due to gambling addiction. In particular, little information is available on the impact it has on vulnerable groups like children and the elderly. Research suggests that it is mostly middle to low- income groups who frequent casinos, spending money that would otherwise have been used to purchase household necessities.

Between January and December 2002 the National Responsible Gambling Programme helpline received 838 calls that needed referrals. Some of the following social and other pathologies are outlined by the National Gambling Board as being linked to gambling, although not particularly in a causal relationship: a relationship between problem gambling and mood disorders, such as depression, anxiety, guilt, restlessness, preoccupation with gambling and loss of control, as well as other dependencies such as alcohol and drugs; activities of most compulsive gamblers affecting the lives of family members and friends, while evidence exists which links compulsive gambling to domestic violence; obsessive gambling leading to financial hardships for the problem gambler and family members, the problem being exacerbated by credit having been available for gambling.

The Bill being debated today attempts to address and rectify some of these social problems and also others which I have not even mentioned. It proposes to abolish the National Gambling Act, Act 33 of 1996, and to re- enact many of its provisions in a new form, while adding several new provisions. It introduces new policies for the concurrent national and provincial regulations of casinos, racing, gambling and wagering. It makes, among other things, provision for the introduction of prohibitions, requirements and standards to reduce the harmful social consequences of compulsive and addictive gambling.

The Bill prohibits interactive gambling, that is gambling over the Internet, except as authorised in terms of this Bill or other legislation. It also introduces a scheme of voluntary and court-ordered exclusion from gambling of persons who may be at risk of addictive gambling.

Furthermore, it makes provision that gambling debt incurred by a minor or an excluded person, or incurred by anyone in the course of unlawful gambling, not be enforceable. Winnings of unlawful gambling will be subject to forfeiture by the state. The Bill aims to, inter alia, provide for the interrelationship between the provincial regulatory agencies and the existing National Gambling Board, and to establish the National Gambling Council - a new intergovernmental consultative body. It requires the gambling industry to fund broad-based education, training and research programmes aimed at minimising the harmful effects of gambling.

Chairperson, the NNP supports this Bill. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order, I now call Ms Witbooi, the MEC for tourism and gambling, Western Cape.

Me J WITBOOI (Wes-Kaap): Agb Voorsitter, agb lede en agb Minister, die Wes- Kaapse provinsie ondersteun in wese die wetsontwerp voor die Raad.

Omdat casino’s, wedrenne, dobbelary en weddenskappe ingevolge Skedule 4 van die Grondwet funksionele gebiede van meewerkende nasionale en provinsiale wetgewende bevoegdheid is, is ons terdeë bewus van die nodigheid om, waar enigsins moontlik, eenvormigheid te bewerkstellig onder die wetgewing van die onderskeie provinsies en wetgewing op nasionale vlak.

Insoverre die wetsontwerp op nasionale dobbelary daarop gemik is om gelyke benaderings, standaarde en praktyke tussen alle provinsies daar te stel en sodoende ‘n eenvormige regulerende raamwerk vir die dobbelbedryf in Suid- Afrika daar te stel, word dit deur die provinsie verwelkom.

Soos ons weet, word dobbelary wêreldwyd streng gereguleer en beheer. In dié verband moet erken word dat, terwyl dié bedryf baie voordele vir die ekonomie van die land en die onderskeie provinsies kan inhou, die groei en welslae daarvan in ‘n groot mate afhanklik is van openbare vertroue en oortuiging dat dobbelary en wedrenne eerlik, kompeterend en vry van kriminele of korrupte elemente beoefen word. Slegs streng regulering van alle persone, persele, praktyke en aktiwiteite met betrekking tot dobbelary en wedrenne sal openbare vertroue in die bedryf verseker. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Ms J WITBOOI (Western Cape): Hon Chairperson, hon members and hon Minister, in essence the Western Cape province supports the Bill before the Council. Because casinos, racing, gambling and wagering are, in terms of Schedule 4 of the Constitution, functional areas of co-operative national and provincial legislative competence, we are thoroughly aware of the need, if at all possible, to establish uniformity, subject to the legislation of the various provinces and legislation at national level.

In as far as the National Gambling Bill is aimed at establishing similar approaches, standards and practices between all provinces, thereby establishing a uniform regulatory framework for the gambling industry in South Africa, it is welcomed by the province.

As we know, gambling worldwide is strictly regulated and controlled. In this respect one must admit that, while this industry can hold many advantages for the economy of the country and its various provinces, its growth and success are to a large extent dependent on public confidence and the conviction that gambling and racing are being practised fairly, competitively and free of criminal or corrupt elements. Only strict regulation of all persons, premises, practices and activities in respect of gambling and racing will ensure public confidence in the industry.]

From a practical point of view, we are heartened by the changes that have been made to clause 14 of the Bill dealing with the exclusion of persons from gambling premises. We believe that the procedure to be followed is now less rigid and more accessible, and therefore more likely to serve the purpose for which it was intended.

Verder is die provinsie tevrede met die wysigings wat aan klousules 19 tot 23 van die wetsontwerp aangebring is. Die vrystelling van sekere kategorieë van dobbeltoestelle vir die doeleindes van registrasie word verwelkom en sal sinvolle regulering op provinsiale, sowel as nasionale vlak vergemaklik. [Furthermore, the province is satisfied with the amendments effected to clauses 19 to 23 of the Bill. The exemption of certain categories of gambling machines for the purpose of registration is welcomed and will facilitate meaningful regulation at provincial, as well as national level.]

As the province in which the National Responsible Gambling Programme was pioneered, the Western Cape firmly subscribes to the notion that prohibiting the industry or outlawing certain sectors cannot meaningfully address the potential negative socioeconomic impacts of gambling. These can, however, be effectively managed by limiting the opportunities to participate in the licensed industry, regulating licensed participants scrupulously and ensuring that they contribute to the programme, and thereby heighten the public awareness of the phenomenon of compulsive gambling.

As a result, we support the views expressed by the Minister at the portfolio committee hearings in respect of this Bill to the effect that the major policy goals of Government would be better served by allowing, but strictly regulating, the limited gambling machine industry in this country. To this effect, we welcome the provisions in the Bill, and the socially responsible framework within which this legislation provides for the phased implementation of the limited gambling machine industry.

Finally, we anticipate that there will be certain major conflicts between the Bill and the regulations to be made in terms thereof, on the one hand, and the corresponding provisions of provincial legislation on the other. In view of these conflicts, it is foreseen that it will be necessary for provinces to implement significant amendments to their existing legislation governing gambling.

Against this background, it is recommended that, pending the finalisation of the Bill, national regulations be drafted and provided to the provincial licensing authorities, allowing them sufficient time in which to motivate the necessary adjustments to their legislation to the relevant provincial parliaments.

It is, furthermore, strongly recommended that the Act and the national regulations should come into effect simultaneously in order to give provincial licensing authorities enough time to align their legislation with the primary and subordinate legislation to be implemented at national level. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Madam Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, let me start off by saying that the ANC fully supports the Bill, as amended by the provinces and the committee, so I don’t have to repeat what has been said already and bore you.

I must also add that you can see that noisemakers are absent from the House today. Everything is running smoothly. We’ve all agreed, except for the noisemakers who did not even participate … [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Who are they?

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: I don’t have to mention them.

I also want to say, because I don’t want to repeat what has been said already, that in the context of the high unemployment rate, many people have become discouraged from looking for work and are tempted to believe that gambling is their salvation. Millions of South Africans face grinding poverty that is rooted in soaring unemployment and low wages. Encouraging or creating an environment in which gamblers think that they can only change their lives through luck, rather than helping us collectively to solve the challenges that we face, eventually leads to the destruction of these people’s and their families’ lives.

The most common forms of gambling are card games, sporting events and lottery tickets. One could have the illusion that gambling is an easy and safe way to make money. However, it is morally and ethically problematic, and the effects of a burgeoning gambling industry are detrimental to our society.

It remains our duty to constantly investigate and ensure that proper means should be found to restrict, monitor and control gambling to ensure that the poor do not become the target market of the unscrupulous. The Bill tabled before us today addresses three main issues: measures to combat addictive and problem gambling, the need to limit gambling opportunities and the limited payout machines, the LPMs, and how the horse racing industry should be treated.

Addictive gambling is considered to be a major social problem, similar to that of alcoholism. On this issue, we welcome the helplines for addicted and problem gamblers which will be run through the professional institutes and counselling sessions.

We hope that the counsellors will be able to assist Government and help diminish both the social and economic impact of gambling on our people in a quick and comprehensive manner, as the existence of a large illegal industry and the broader social economic impact of the industry are yet unclear in South Africa.

In recent times, these limited payout machines became part of a new gambling sector in South Africa in the absence of a national central monitoring mechanism that could create synergy in regulating the roll out of slot machines in provinces. We welcome the commitment given by the hon Minister and members of our provincial legislatures to promote mechanisms that would give effect to co-operative governance. We therefore welcome the assurance by the department not to increase the number of casinos from the current maximum of 40 000 to an envisaged maximum of 50 000 machines.

I understand that there are specific difficulties relating to gambling on the Internet, but I’m confident that the new provisions in the Bill can assist in confiscating the material gains of illegal gambling operations. In addition, they can also assist us with the new envisaged Internet gambling legislation that will be developed in the near future.

We also acknowledge that horse racing is an industry that is dependent on gambling for its continued existence. It is not an ordinary sport, but it is a form of sport that was the only legal form of gambling and, therefore, had to be provided for separately, since policy formulation remains the domain of Government.

Similarly, we admit that problem gambling is a big issue, both in terms of public perceptions and for Government in general. The public needs to be educated in respect of the potential harmful effects of gambling. People need to be taught that gambling was meant to be a form of entertainment, and not something that could control their lives.

In conclusion, I want to say … nangona ungcakazo lusemthethweni, kubalulekile ukuba sifundise abantu ukuba bangaxhomekeki kulo. Into eyenzekayo kukuba, abantu bathabatha nale senti yokugqibela, yesonka, kuba beza kuzama-zama.

Siyi-ANC siyayibulela le ndlela uRhulumente azimisele ukwenza ngayo. Ngoku, nabo balala eGrand West banikwa uphum’ aphele. Enkosi, Mam’ uSihlalo. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[… that although gambling is legal, it is important for us to teach people not to get addicted to it. What often happens is that people take the very last cent, meant to buy bread with, to try their luck.

As the ANC we are grateful for the Government’s new approach in this regard. Those who sleep over at Grand West are given their marching orders. Thank you, Madam Chairperson. [Applause.]]

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Madam Chair, my thanks to the colleagues and to the provincial special delegates for the support that the Bill has received. I believe that we have acted wisely in this matter, and consultation has been important.

Let me touch on a few issues that have been raised, because I think they are important issues. There was a suggestion that possibly advertising in relation to the lottery was somehow easier, or the dispensation was easier than that for gambling. I would like to stress that one of the tasks of the National Lotteries Board is, in fact, to address advertising. The mechanism is probably a lot easier than it is in the Gambling Act, because it’s a direct condition of their licence and the board can intervene and has intervened on a number of occasions to address the advertising around the lottery.

As in the Lotteries Act, the intent is clear, that one can advertise, but not in the manner that in any way induces, through unfair representation of what’s possible and what the prospects are. I will return to this matter of the conduct of the industry at the end.

Horse racing, for the reasons that many of the delegates have outlined, was taken out of the Bill. It would be my view that inevitably there should be some national framework for this and we will continue the dialogue, both with provinces and the industry. The structure of the industry, as you are all familiar, is essentially national now. So we need to have a look at that.

With regard to the limited payout machines, let me really stress a few points here: One is that evidence from other jurisdictions makes it clear that these machines are actually and potentially the areas of gambling where addictive gambling can be most problematic by far. I think our own caution with regard to the machines arose from the studies that were done in other jurisdictions. There were many problems with the provisions in the Act, and how these machines would be introduced, which have taken us a long time to try and resolve.

There’s obviously also some degree of tension between allowing these machines, which are a form of gambling, to proliferate outside the casinos and then want to have the lottery as well as a form of utilising gambling, if you like, to raise funds for good causes, and this balance has to be struck.

I want to stress, once again, that our intention in insisting that each machine is linked to a central system is not to take away any power from provinces, it is to put in place what we believe is the only workable, equitable and effective way of doing this. If each province wants to go it alone or a few of the provinces want to pool their resources and have one system, the truth is that the costs for the smaller provinces rise, and our ability to monitor in those smaller provinces deteriorates and our ability to have a national picture of what’s happening deteriorates as well.

Now, it has been argued many a time that each province could have its own system and interface at the national level. Well, that is technically possibly feasible. However, every study we’ve done, everything we’ve looked at has shown that the technicalities of it are problematic to the degree that it outweighs the far simpler, more efficient and more cost-effective mechanism of having one.

So it’s my sincere hope that in KZN we can reach an accommodation on this. We’ve tried our very best and I really think that it would be useful. I must say, as I have said time and time again, if I fail to reach an accommodation, I will push the rights that national Government has to enforce the law. However, I would prefer that we all come to our senses on this matter. I really can’t see the logic of each province trying to get a separate system.

Let me also indicate, as the hon MEC suggested, that this experience of the new Bill has, I think, for the first time really led to a very good and effective relationship between the national and the provincial structures. The Bill has benefited from that, there’s no question about it. I think that it’s indicated to us that actually we can regulate this industry more effectively if we work together.

I think you’re quite correct: There’s going to be some tension between existing Acts and regulations and what’s there, and the task teams have been working already and we’ll continue to work on that, because we do need to implement a clean system without too many contradictions and problems in it between the provinces and elsewhere.

Here again, as many members have stated, fundamentally, if we can all have a common approach to this industry based on common sense, reality and care for our people, we can make it a good industry, and that is, as many of you have said, we feel that to try and illegalise gambling is merely to make criminals out of ordinary people and create criminality around an industry when we shouldn’t have that. So we need to make it legal and we must then regulate it in a manner that meets all of our objectives. I think we can do that.

I think it would be a mistake for the industry - and I’m sure they are alive to this - to underestimate how quickly popular feeling can rise against this industry. There’s no question that on the limited payout machines, if you’d ask for a vote in both Houses, I think the majority votes would say: ``Don’t introduce them.’’ I think that the industry suddenly realised that, contrary to the Minister being the obstacle, what they had to understand was that this was perceived, by popular opinion, as a potential threat to the wellbeing of our peoples and communities. So again, we’ve reached a sensible compromise, which is to allow them, but to phase them in.

I will certainly consult with provinces on the matter. I have no intention, as a Minister - and I’m sure it would be unwise for any future Minister - on a matter like this, to try and impose a national viewpoint when the province is working on the ground. I want to stress this, that fundamentally the industry is best regulated by the structure of co- operative governance that we have, because you cannot deal with the intricacies of gambling on the ground that effectively from a national viewpoint as you could from a provincial viewpoint. So it’s a good partnership that we should keep going.

I’m confident that the organised industry is cognisant of its responsibilities - it has representatives here today. I’m very confident that they are cognisant of their responsibilities and will work to ensure that members of the industry conduct themselves correctly because, if any one member doesn’t, this popular pressure will arise. I think that it’s important that we continue the kind of partnership that we have with the industry and, where we’ve agreed, that in fact those actions taken with regard to dealing with problem gambling are dealt with by the industry on a voluntary basis.

The Act, I think, is more precise now as to what you must do, and I think that’s good. However, we have a partnership with the industry where they have to carry out the work, and I think that this is the correct approach, which I hope we keep. It’s my hope that the industry will continue to conduct itself in the manner that it has, and apart from the illegal operators and one or two rotten eggs, I think that the industry has conducted itself well.

I would like to thank the National Gambling Board for all the work they’ve done and wish the chairperson, Mr Chris Fismer, and Adv Moyake, as a chief executive officer, well. They’ve got a lot of work to do in the industry. Good luck, and thank you very much to the House for supporting what I believe is a sound piece of legislation for this industry. [Applause.]

Debate concluded. The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I shall now put the question. The question is that the Bill, as amended, be agreed to. The decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

I note that all delegations have members present in the House. In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if they wish to do so. Is there any province wishing to make a declaration of vote? There is none.

We proceed, therefore, to voting. I shall do this in alphabetic order. Delegation heads know what they have to do. The Eastern Cape?

Ms N C KONDLO: Votes in favour, Chair.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Free State?

Mr T S SETONA: Votes in favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng?

Ms D M RAMODIBE: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Elethu! [We agree.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?

Mrs C NKUNA: Limpopo ya seketela [Limpopo supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?

Ms M P THEMBA: IMpumalanga iyasekela. [Mpumalanga supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Ke ya rona. [I support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?

Ms J WITBOOI (Western Cape): WesKaap steun. [Western Cape supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the Bill, as amended, agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution. [Applause.]

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SC ON ECONOMIC AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS ON SA CUSTOMS UNION AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF BOTSWANA, THE KINGDOM OF LESOTHO, THE REPUBLIC OF NAMIBIA, THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE KINGDOM OF SWAZILAND

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Chairperson, I thank you for this chance to make a statement. I realise that this is not a debate but I also thank the chairperson of the select committee for allowing me to speak. I do it for three reasons, one is, once again, because it will be the last formal chance I have to speak in this House, and I have enjoyed the environment and the conduct here.

Secondly, I do believe that this is an agreement that is of considerable importance, not just for South Africa or the Customs Union, but it is a step in the right direction for Africa’s economic integration.

The agreement, as you know, is in fact extremely old and was imposed by the British imperial and colonial powers and then renegotiated in 1969. However, the agreement that we inherited had three very fundamental shortcomings: Firstly, it was essentially undemocratic in its decision- making. South Africa had all the power to make decisions. Secondly, these decisions made by South Africa did create a high degree of polarisation within the Customs Union and certainly the patterns of industralisation and development have been very, very uneven.

Thirdly, the revenue-sharing formula had begun to have a very adverse impact on South Africa because the formula allowed for payments that could well have been in excess of what was brought in. There were years in recent times where the amounts that are to be paid jumped dramatically without us being part of that at all.

The new agreement is really a major step forward in economic integration. I think it establishes very clearly a common structure, common decision- making. It alters the revenue formula and we have an explicit component that deals with development for those economies that are heavily dependent on the revenue coming from the Customs Union.

It also would streamline and improve a lot of dimensions of trade administration such as antidumping actions, issuing of permits for exports and imports where that applies.

The agreement has also opened new and interesting areas of potential co- operation. In industrial policy the prospect of competition law is also dealt with and is envisaged in this agreement. So, by ratifying it in South Africa, the agreement will come into force and it will allow us to proceed onto some of these very interesting areas of our action to further deepen the economic co-operation and integration between the Customs Union members.

There have been some misgivings as to whether the structure of the agreement will mean that processes will be slower. I think this is an important challenge that we all face in establishing institutions together.

However, I must say that since we have started to work as a common Customs Union in our trade negotiations, for example in the free trade agreement negotiations with the United States, the negotiating team is a SACU team and all member states participate, what we are finding is that by having to work together in these extremely complicated agreements, we are very rapidly building tremendous capacity in the Customs Union. I am very proud to be able to say that.

I think if you look around the world from the point of view of the Southern African Customs Union, you see Ministers playing a very important role. Minister Jacob Mathate from Botswana, has very, very ably chaired the SCP African-Carribean-Pacific. Minister Mphobadi from Lesotho has played a very critical role in all the big WTO meetings by assisting the chair on many occasions and playing a very important role in the LDCs or least-developed countries.

So, I think the type of capacity that we are building by working together is testimony to how constructive these kinds of co-operation agreements can be in achieving the goal that we all want to achieve in Africa, that is our joint African development.

So, I think it is a very historic agreement. It is an extremely advanced form of economic co-operation and it is a matter of great pride to us that we have been able to bring about this new agreement in the Customs Union and have the support of Parliament in doing it. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr B J TOLO: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, I want to believe that this is also my parting shot as well, as I am standing up here today to speak, I think, for the last time in this term of this Parliament.

I think the Minister has actually said it all. Maybe I will just reiterate some of the things that the Minister indicated here. The South African Customs Union Agreement was signed for the first time in 1910 between the then Union of South Africa and the then so-called High Commission Territories of Bechunaland, Basothuland and Swaziland.

When Botswana, Lesotho and Swaziland attained their independence in the 60s, a necessity arose for a review of the 1910 agreement. This resulted in the signing of a new agreement among these four states in 1969. I must indicate that in 1990 the independent Namibia also joined SACU.

We must hasten to say that the two agreements referred to above were heavily loaded in favour of apartheid South Africa. In essence, South Africa then bulldozed these countries into these agreements that can best be described as instruments to bridge the gap between politically unfriendly neighbours that shared an integrated economy dominated by South Africa.

In the meantime, the people of South Africa were engaged in a relentless struggle to realise the lofty ideals of freedom and independence. That struggle, as we all know, triumphed in 1994, where we, on the ruins of apartheid, built for ourselves a united and democratic South Africa.

It would, therefore, be morally wrong for a free South Africa to perpetuate its dominance over its Southern Africa neighbours through that unholy agreement.

The new situation in Southern Africa necessitated the negotiation of a new revenue-sharing agreement based on equity and democratic principles. What we are tabling today in this House is a new product of negotiations among the five SACU member states as equal partners. The main objectives of the agreement, among other things, are to facilitate cross-border movement of goods between the territories of the member states; create effective, transparent and democratic institutions which will ensure equitable trade benefits for its member states; facilitate equitable sharing of revenue arising from custom, excise and additional duties levied by its member states, and also establish SACU as an international organisation open to other countries that subscribe to its ideals.

The agreement provides for the establishment of a council of Ministers composed of at least one Minister from each member state. This council will be the supreme decision-making body of SACU. It also establishes Customs Union Commission made up of senior government officials and a permanent secretariat that will be responsible for the day to day running of the organisation.

We all know that where there are different countries in an organisation at different levels of development, disputes are bound to arise. To this end, a tribunal is established to adjudicate whenever disputes arise between or amongst these countries.

As a committee, we are convinced that this new agreement represents a victory for the people of our five countries. It will go a long way in bettering the lives of, not only South Africans, but those of the entire subregion.

It will encourage economic development and integration of the economies of our five countries to the advantage of us all. This is also necessitated by the fact that history has put us together and we can either flourish together as a region or perish together, for we are in the same boat.

We call upon this honourable House to ratify this agreement. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon members, that concludes the debate. I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of Section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ vote. Are they all present?

In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declaration of vote, if they so wish. Is there any province that wishes to do so? None. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, against or abstain. Eastern Cape?

Ms N C KONDLO: IMpuma Koloni iyayixhasa le ngxelo. [Eastern Cape supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITEES: Free State?

Mr T S SETONA: Free State votes in favour.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?

Ms D M RAMODIBE: Gauteng votes in favour.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Kwazulu-Natal?

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Siyavuma. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?

Mrs C NKUNA: Limpopo e a dumelana. [Limpopo supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?

Ms M P THEMBA: Mpumalanga steun. [Mpumalanga supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?

Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Ten gunste. [In favour of.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke a rona. [North West supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Iyavuma. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Nine provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

      INTEGRATED MEASURES FOR DROUGHT RELIEF AND FOOD SECURITY

                      (Subject for Discussion)

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Thank you very much, Chairperson, hon members, ladies and gentlemen. Yesterday in the NA, the Minister of Finance tabled the Drought Relief Adjustment Appropriation Bill. This Bill enables us as Government to make available other financial resources that will enable the various departments to respond to challenges that our communities are facing as a result of the current drought that has had a negative impact on our society’s social welfare.

This Appropriation Bill follows another allocation that was made available in the 2003 Adjustment Estimates of an amount of R250 million for emergency drought relief, as well as for other disasters that have affected our provinces. Today’s debate will enable us as Government to share in detail with you, as public representatives of our people, on the measures that we have taken thus far in responding to the drought situation that is facing us currently, as well as the policy environment that was adopted, in dealing with disasters in general.

It will also be necessary, in my view, to also touch on the regional situation with regard to the same issue and what we are doing as part of the Southern African Regional Community - SADC. Before we deal with what we have done, I want us to remember where we come from as this democratic state, in relation to response to disasters and drought in particular. Lest we forget, in 1999 Cabinet approved the White Paper on Disaster Management. The Disaster Management Policy pursues the Constitutional obligation as set out in terms of section 1(b), which states that all spheres of Government are required to secure the well-being of the people of the Republic. Part A of Schedule 4 of the Constitution identifies disaster management and other related issues as areas of concurrent national and provincial legislative competencies.

A further fundamental purpose of the policy is to advocate an approach to disaster management that focuses on reducing the risks of life, economic loss and damage to property; especially in those sections of the population who are most vulnerable due to poverty and general lack of resources. It also aims to protect the environment.

In short, the policy aims to do the following, if I may say so: to provide an enabling environment for disaster management in our country; to provide proactive and disaster management risk reduction programmes; to improve South Africa’s ability to manage emergencies or disasters and their consequences in a co-ordinated, efficient and effective manner; to promote integrated and co-ordinated disaster management through partnership between different stakeholders and co-operative relationship between all spheres of our Government. It also seeks to ensure that adequate financial arrangements are in place, as well as promote disaster management training and community awareness.

This approach to the management of disasters involves a shift away from a perception that disasters are rare occurrences managed by emergencies or rescue instruments and support services, but rather it sees disaster management as a shared responsibility between Government and its people. Therefore it underlies the important element of shared awareness and responsibility that we need to create in order to reduce risk in our homes, communities, places of work and in society in general.

The question may therefore arise from you: What has been done thus far after the adoption of policy? One of the immediate things that Government did was to ensure that we set up our instruments. We ensure that at Cabinet level, there is an ongoing interministerial Cabinet committee, chaired by the Minister for Provincial and Local Government, whose task is to ensure that all relevant departments participate in a co-ordinated way when we have to respond to disasters. It was also responsible for ensuring that both provincial and local governments set up the same committees to ensure that there can be a speedy response. But it is true for all of us, that the most important structures are those at a local level. They are at the coalface of the challenges when they occur, but also, they are most closer to our communities, should disaster arise.

These structures help us with information gathering and dissemination thereof, but also ensure that when there are relief measures put in place, they can actually act as a distribution chain. It is also true that we still need to do more, particularly in terms of technical support to ensure that these structures can undertake their long-term objective of being able to respond as quickly as possible.

If you look at what has happened, particularly in the first 10 years of our democratic Government, where we have had some of the challenges such as floods in 2001, Government was prepared, both in terms of its technical capacity as well as resources, to respond immediately to such disasters. Budget has always ensured that it accommodates through contingency funds, resources for responding to any disaster, should it arise.

In looking at the current drought, one can say that it found us better prepared because, as a country, we acknowledge that we are in a drought- prone region. Therefore, our rains are sometimes scarce and erratic in the different parts of our country. Also, it came to us when we were better prepared, because from 1999 onwards, we were aware that climatic change worldwide had resulted in an El Nino or La Nina events, even though the intensity and impacts may differ spatially. In certain parts of the world there have been severe floods, droughts and heat waves as well as snow, as we know that in our country in parts of KwaZulu-Natal, the Eastern Cape and the Free State, we had some snow at the wrong time of year. In our view, it was at the wrong time if we compare it to our climatic conditions as we know them.

It is also true that as early as 2002, the SA Weather Service had already forecasted that less rainfall will be realised in the year 2002-03 season. However, this condition was also persistent in 2003-04 cycle. This led to a situation where particularly the Department of Provincial and Local Government, as well as the Departments Agriculture and Land Affairs, did send some warning signals, particularly to our farmers, with regard to these weather forecasts.

Farmers were informed on what they need to do to mitigate the impact of this drought. Livestock farmers in particular were advised to reduce their stock to enable them to rotate the animals between camps and avoid mortalities and overgrazing.

However, as we all know, some people do respond, but others take a wait-and- see approach which, in some situations, has a worsening impact. Given the 2002-03 summer rainfall figures, it was clear therefore that the levels of our dams were going to be a bit lower if no rains came at a particular time. It was also clear that, in terms of our moisture in the soil, if no rain came at a particular time, we would face some challenges. Indeed, as we predicted, last year by April the province of Limpopo started experiencing some drought. Again, as Government, we acted swiftly to ensure that we assisted particularly those districts in Limpopo that were affected.

In our own analysis the 2002-03 summer rainfall conditions had affected mostly the provinces of Limpopo, Mpumalanga, KwaZulu-Natal and Northern Cape. As we know though, in other provinces, in the season of 2003-04 the situation also became worse. We are also aware that those provinces which had veld fires, particularly towards October last year, also faced some challenges because some of the grazing land in their areas was affected. This has not only impacted on our farming communities. Our approach as Government has been to look at the overall the impact to a number of our sectors of society that were affected by this drought.

First and foremost, the majority of people, even those who are not farmers, were affected by the lower water levels in our dams. In some areas water restrictions were actually implemented and therefore, in the 2003 Adjustment Estimates, the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry was given money to ensure that they could respond to supplying emergency water supplies, particularly to those communities that were already vulnerable.

We were also aware that, because of the challenges in the farming community, not only farmers were going to be affected, but also the farmworkers. Therefore, in terms of our response as Government, we ensured that we would need to put some money aside so that those communities and families who would be affected may actually get some form of social security grant in order to mitigate the impending problem.

We also appealed to our farming community that they should respond in a way in which it would not, in large measures, result in a number of people being unemployed, particularly those who are farmworkers.

We were also aware that in most instances the challenges of drought do have an impact on the health conditions of our people, particularly as a result of the diseases that usually occur during droughts, such as cholera and malaria in particular. Therefore, as part of our integrated approach we agreed that as our response to this job we will take measures with regard to health, water accessibility, both for human consumption and livestock, and at the same time assist some of those farmers who still had their livestock and did not sell them off or provide them with fodder so that the animals can have something to eat.

However, at the same time we should ensure that the way in which we prepare our water emergencies will assist with the boreholes, and we should work with municipalities so that where some of the boreholes need rehabilitation, we can have some resources to do so.

However, we are all aware that the impact that may be felt in the short- term now might actually take a little bit longer and therefore a long-term recovery strategy is required on how we assist those communities to go back particularly in production and to normality.

It is for that reason that Minister Manuel yesterday in his Budget Speech highlighted that, should there be a need for resources to this effect in terms of the medium and long-term aspects, we should have some resources available, over and above the resources that have already been allocated.

We are also aware, in terms of our planning, that as it always happens in a number of situations where drought is usually followed by floods, that we need to work with the Department of Housing, both at national and provincial levels. This is to ensure that we are prepared, should there be any impact that would affect some other people, for example in the loss of their dwellings if a flood disaster should follow such a drought.

At the same time, in terms of our national regulatory services, particularly in agriculture, we have ensured that we strengthen our capacity to respond to some of the animal diseases such as the pest diseases that usually follow any form of the drought when it is broken by heavy rains.

This, in our view, shows a holistic way in which we, as this Government, are dealing with the drought situation that is facing us currently and also, in general, the situation of managing disaster in a way that will reduce the impact to our communities.

As I said earlier, I will touch on the subject of the SADC, because the drought that we are experiencing in South Africa is also being experienced by other members of our SADC community. The chairperson of SADC, President Mkapa of Tanzania, has convened an extraordinary summit which has been preceded by a ministerial meeting on 14 February, to deliberate and discuss strategies of what we would need to do as the region in order to deal with this impact, particularly on a number of our vulnerable communities, as well as on our livestock.

It is our hope that the proposals that the Ministers have made in terms of what would need to be done, would also be endorsed by our heads of states and governments, so that we, as a region, are able to respond to the challenges of this drought and its impact on our society this time.

I also want to say that part of the rapid response has been assisted by the manner in which we have been able to work with our colleagues in the provinces, as well as in local government. When we first heard of the challenges of the drought, the MECs responsible for managing disasters, as well as those various MECs who participate in the disaster management committees, were able to ensure that we do an assessment as quickly as possible, for us to be able to give resources that are required to mitigate this problem.

I would also like to thank organised agriculture for their speedy response in working with us in trying to do assessments so that we can have an appreciation of the extent of the problem that we are facing. However, it is also necessary for me to appeal particularly to our financial and commercial sector, for they would have to manage the debt, as well as the repayments that may be required at this stage, and they would need to be sensitive, without reducing their responsibility or undermining it in terms of lending. They should take into consideration the impact that this drought will have on the farming sector, in particular.

I would like to say that as we as a Government are going forward, we continue to improve our response. At other levels the improvements we have made with regard to varieties, particularly that of seeds and plants, as well as animal improvements - to ensure that we can have better herds such as Nguni and Afrikaner cattle - would help to stabilise positions, particularly for the livestock farmers who are operating in this drought- prone region. Agricultural research will continue to be done in order to ensure that the technological choices that we make as a country and as farmers, would help us to better respond in such situations. [Applause.]

Rev P MOATSHE: Mmusakgotla, Tona ya tsa Temothuo le tsa Mafatshe, maloko a ntlo eno, ke rata ke dumedisa Khansele eno ya Bosetshaba ya diporofense, ka pula. Ke re pula. Pula ya medupe a e ne. Dinokana di tlatse dinoka, mme megobe-megolo ya lefatshe la rona e phophome ka metsi.

Komelelo e gwetlha setshaba go sokologa mo ditirong tse di maswe. Go ikoba fa pele ga Modimo, mme mmopi wa dilo tsotlhe o tla tlisa kalafo mo lefatsheng la rona.

Motswana a re, tlhapi solofela leraga metsi a tshele o a lebile. Fa go le mafaratlhatlha, ke mmangwana yo o tshwarang thipa ka kwa bogaleng. A re, tlogatloga e tloga kgale, modisa kgomo o tswa nayo. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs, members of this House, I would like to greet everyone in the NCOP. Rain must fall and small rivers must fill big rivers, and the big dams of our country should overflow with water.

Drought challenges a nation to clean up its wicked ways. To humble ourselves before God and the Creator of all shall bring healing to our country. There is a saying that when something that one has relied upon disappears, one should know that problems have arrived. When things are tough, a real mother is the one who stands up for her children. Another saying goes: Make hay while the sun shines.]

As someone coming from the North West province, which is one of the provinces hardest hit by drought, this debate on drought relief is very close to my heart. I have seen the suffering our people are enduring in the area due to drought. Therefore, I support the drought relief fund put aside by our Government, which is not only focused on one sector of the community, but is aimed at assisting all the people affected by drought.

Due to less rainfall experienced during the 2002-03 season, South Africa is experiencing a severe drought. The situation is not going to improve soon, as rainfall is expected to be below normal for the 2003-04 season, as the Minister has said.

We should not underestimate the impact of drought on the economy of South Africa. The impact will be drastic if measures are not taken soon to deal with the situation. It is estimated that 40% of the country’s population depends on agriculture-related industries.

Agriculture accounts for 4,5% of the GDP of South Africa, while the agrofood complex accounts for 9%. Macrocommercial farmers contribute to about 11% of total formal employment, and are thus providing to about 6 million family members. In addition, small farmers provide livelihood to their family members and provide occasional employment to about 50 000 people. This information was obtained from Drought Update No 1, 22 December

1. All this shows that agriculture is a very crucial sector of our economy.

Geeneen kan ontken dat droogte ‘n negatiewe impak op die produksie van mielies, sonneblomme, soja en suikerriet het nie. Dit skep die gevaar van groot voedseltekorte. Vee word dan ook geweldig geaffekteer. Groot getalle plaaswerkers staan ‘n kans om hul werk te verloor indien plaasboere afdankings as hul enigste uitweg sien. Die stap sal lei tot ‘n verlies aan inkomste en, gepaardgaande daarmee, ‘n verlies aan koopkrag vir voedsel.

Behalwe vir lae reënval, affekteer veldbrande ook die weivelde en dit beïnvloed damvlakke. Dit werk negatief in op drinkwater vir vee. Die skaarsheid van water vir besproeiing, sanitasie en menslike en dierlike gebruik kan siektes tot gevolg hê, soos die Minister gesê het. Ek wil graag die departement en die Ministerie bedank vir die aanvanklik stappe wat deur hulle ingestel is en wat die kwessie van droogtes ernstig aanspreek om sodoende die lewensgehalte van alle Suid-Afrikaners, veral die armstes van die armes, te verbeter. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[No one can deny that drought has a negative impact on the production of mealies, sunflowers, soya beans and sugar cane. It creates the danger of huge food shortages. Livestock is also affected greatly then. Large numbers of farm workers stand a chance to lose their jobs if farmers see dismissal as their only way out. This step will lead to a loss of income and a concomitant loss of food buying power.

Apart from low rainfall, veld fires also affect pasturage and this influences dam levels. This negatively impacts on drinking water for livestock. The scarcity of water for irrigation, sanitation and human and animal use can cause diseases, as the Minister has mentioned. I would like to thank the department and the Ministry for the steps initially introduced by them, which seriously address the issue of droughts, in so doing to improve the quality of life of all South Africans, especially the poorest of the poor.]

In response to the distress caused by the continuing drought to sectors, such as agriculture and local government, and its impact on poor rural communities, a comprehensive drought mitigation programme has been put in place by Government to assist the affected areas. The programme has been drawn up by the Disaster Task Team, set up by the Minister for Provincial and Local Government, Mr Mufamadi, in September 2003.

The task team comprises the Departments of Water Affairs and Forestry, Social Development and Agriculture, as well as the National Treasury. The Department of Provincial and Local Government is the co-ordinating department. This shows that we acknowledge that dealing with drought disaster needs an integrated approach where all departments that can help pool all their resources and work together.

The role of the task team was to review the impact of the drought and measures taken to date to mitigate its effects. It identified agriculture, drinking water supplies and municipal water as the main areas requiring intervention. It formed an Interdepartmental Disaster Management Committee, consisting of Ministers from identified departments, to drive the process of dealing with drought and other disasters.

Steps were already taken last year by the Interdepartmental Disaster Management Committee to mitigate the impact of the current drought. It had been monitoring the situation and consulting with relevant stakeholders on interventions required. The interministerial task team, co-ordinated by Minister Mufamadi, has toured affected areas to really assess the damage caused by drought to families and farmers in different provinces.

Last year an amount of R250 million was made available to affected sectors and communities for drought relief measures. Part of this money was used to subsidise fodder for livestock and to drill new boreholes. Money available to provinces, which is 70% of the money, was distributed as follows: Limpopo R33,3 million, Western Cape R10 million, Northern Cape R68,7 million, Eastern Cape R12,7 million and Free State R10 million.

With the situation not getting better, our President, Thabo Mbeki, declared some areas disaster areas in six of the country’s nine provinces on 16 January 2004. These were KwaZulu-Natal, Eastern Cape, Free State, North West, Northern Cape and Mpumalanga. This declaration will allow national emergency funds to go to these areas. Thank you.

A pula e re nele. [Legofi.] [Let us be blessed. [Applause.]]

Ms E C GOUWS: Thank you, Deputy Chairperson. The farmers are doing a praiseworthy and sometimes thankless job. They are small in numbers, but have to feed over 40 million South Africans and also a few million in Southern Africa.

We are quick to criticise and moan about the prices of food on our table, but spare a thought for those who have to defy the elements and keep on and on despite floods, droughts, fire or snow. We, the thankless public, should rather laud these men and women and do everything to support and enable them in their struggle to feed the nation.

When I think of the farmers of our land, whether they are small farmers, new farmers or commercial farmers, these words by Charles Kingsley describe these special people best:

The men whom I have seen succeeded best in life have always been cheerful and hopeful men, who went about their business with a smile on their faces, and took the changes and chances of this mortal life like men, facing tough and smooth alike as it comes!

Hats off to our brother and sister farmers. Our country is in the grips of a devastating drought, and we welcome and acknowledge the drought assistance by the Government, but we want to caution the Government to treat all farmers alike.

Our commercial farmers - let me highlight this - of all races are among the best in the world. They have to contend, as all small farmers, with a plethora of problems - the vagaries of the weather, constant drought, rising taxes and municipal levies, and excessively high toll road costs.

There were 20 000 job losses in South Africa in the first quarter of 2003. South Africa’s third largest singular employer group is the agricultural sector. It employs approximately 600 00 people - more than 400 000 down since 1992. This figure will certainly continue on a downward trend as the realities of the disasters strike our country.

As die elemente teen die boere draai, dan kry alle boere swaar. Uit die aard van die saak sal die klein boere en die nuwe boere se probleme mense se harte en verbeelding aangryp. Natuurlik, as ‘n boer se hele rykdom 10 beeste is en hy verloor alles weens omstandighede buite sy beheer, moet daar vir hom hulp kom. As ‘n klein boer met een hektaar vrugtebome alle vrugte weens ‘n haelstorm vertoor, moet daar hulp wees.

Kommersiële boere word ook deur die elemente en omstandighede getref. Hulle verloor ook alles, maar meer mense word geraak. Die boer het ‘n kontantvloeiprobleem, en om te oorleef word onder andere plaaswerkers afgedank. Dit veroorsaak ‘n kettingreaksie wat baie mense sonder kos laat.

My party verwelkom werklik die bykomende droogtehulp van R250 miljoen, maar ons wil ‘n beroep doen op doeltreffende, regverdige en spoedeisende beskikbaarstelling.

Die behoefte aan ‘n rampbestuurstrategie op die lang termyn het nou onontbeerlik vir hierdie land geword.

Suid-Afrika kan nie langer geld en ander rampmaatreëls so lukraak bestuur nie. ‘n Strategie vir rampbestuur met ‘n toepaslike begroting moet voortydig gevestig word. Ons moet voorbereid wees vir toekomstige rampe. Suid-Afrika is ‘n land waar droogtes en natuurrampe byna met gereelde reëlmaat voorkom.

‘n Aansienlike deel van die voorgestelde droogtebystand is bedoel om klein boere wat geen oes gaan hê nie se huishoudings van voedsel te voorsien. Daar is geen fout daarmee nie; dit is prysenswaardig. Die vergunning word nou ook uitgebrei na plaaswerkers op kommersiële plase, hoewel hulle nog steeds hulle volle salarisse ontvang.

My party glo egter dat benewens hierdie vergunning, die uitbreiding van die droogtebystand van so ‘n aard moet wees dat werkgewers bygestaan word om te verhoed dat werkers afgedank word. Daar moet voortgegaan kan word met die daaglikse werksaamhede om sodoende infrastruktuur van die platteland in stand te hou. Die huidige hulp aan boere en plaaswerkers is werklik ‘n baie korttermyn projek. Dit gaan nou oor oorlewing, en ons moet dus kyk na die langtermyn. Om nou kospakkies en lone te betaal, ook aan werkers op kommersiële plase wat steeds hul salarisse ontvang, lyk baie verdag, veral met die naderende verkiesing.

Die Oos-Kaap Landbou-unie is dankbaar vir die R12,7 miljoen droogtehulp, maar glo dis nie naastenby voldoende nie. Die grootste probleem is nie die bedrag nie, maar wel die effektiewe besteding daarvan. Landbouers soek nie ‘n gebaar van simpatie nie, maar wel hulp om weer in produksie te kom. [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[When the elements turn against the farmers, then all farmers suffer. Inevitably the problems of small farmers and new farmers will capture people’s hearts and imaginations. Naturally, if a farmer’s entire wealth consists of 10 cattle, and he loses everything due to circumstances beyond his control, he has to get help. If a small farmer with one hectare of fruit trees loses all his fruit due to a hailstorm, there has to be assistance.

Commercial farmers are also struck by the elements and circumstances. They also lose everything, but more people are affected. The farmer experiences a cash flow problem and in order to survive farm workers are dismissed, amongst others. This causes a chain reaction which leaves many people without food.

My party really welcomes the additional drought relief of R250 million, but we want to make an appeal for efficient, equitable and speedy availability.

The need for a disaster management strategy, in the long term, has now become indispensable for this country.

South Africa can no longer manage money and other disaster measures in such a haphazard manner. A strategy for disaster management with an appropriate budget must be established beforehand. We must be prepared for future disasters. South Africa is a country where drought and natural disasters occur regularly.

A substantial part of the proposed drought assistance is meant to provide households of small farmers who will have no crops with food. There is nothing wrong with that; it is laudable. This grant is now also being extended to farm workers on commercial farms, although they are still receiving their full salaries.

My party believes, however, that over and above this grant, drought relief must such that employers are assisted to prevent workers from being dismissed. They have to continue with the daily activities in order to maintain the infrastructure of the rural areas.

The current assistance to farmers and farm workers is a very short-term project. It is about survival now, and we must look at the long term. Distributing food parcels and paying wages at this time, also to workers on commercial farms who are still receiving their salaries, looks very suspicious, especially with the coming elections.

The Eastern Cape Agricultural Union appreciates the R12,7 million in drought relief, but believes that it is not nearly enough. The biggest problem is not the amount, but in fact the efficient spending thereof. Farmers are not looking for a gesture of sympathy, but in fact assistance to get back into production.] [Time expired.]

Mnr A E VAN NIEKERK: Voorsitter, baie dankie. Wanneer droogtes rampafmetings aangeneem het, dan moet die ramp bestuur word, en die masjinerie van die staat is op die oomblik baie beter geolie as wat dit in die verlede was, maar daar is nog ruimte vir verbetering.

Dit is belangrik vir ons as kollegas hier om te verstaan wat die impak van ‘n droogte is as jou hele voortbestaan daarvan afhang om te kan oorleef. Wanneer ek met u praat, praat ek in die konteks van die Noord-Kaap, en praat ek dan ook uit die perspektief van ‘n veeboer. Daar is twee goed waarvan jy seker is in die Noord-Kaap, sê die Noord- Kapenaars, en dit is die dood en ‘n droogte. Deur die genade lewe ek nog, maar ek het ‘n paar droogtes ook deurleef.

Voorsitter, behalwe dat droogtes mense of jy ‘n eienaar of ‘n werker is, nader aan hul Skepper bring en hul gebede meer opreg maak, wys dit ook karakter. Dit vorm nie karakter nie; dit wys karakter.

Ek onthou toe ek net op die plaas gekom het, was ek in die koöperasie en oom Soon le Roux het na my toe gekom en gesê: Boet, hoe gaan dit met jou hier op die plaas? En ek het gesê: Oom, dis vrek warm en baie droog. Toe sê hy vir my: Boet, kla oor goed wat jy kan verander. Jy kan die natuur en die klimaat nie verander nie.

Dit was ‘n baie goeie les, maar ons kan egter pro-aktief optree sover dit natuurlik moontlik is, en daarna moet ons kyk. Ons moet rampe uitstel sover dit moontlik is. Ons moet duidelik verstaan dat ‘n boer wat vee of wild op sy grond het, boer nie met vee of wild nie. Hy boer met bossies of gras, en die vee of wild is waarde wat hy toevoeg tot die bossies of die gras. Hy boer, met ander woorde, met die veld. Dit is daarom belangrik dat bewaringsboerdery aangemoedig moet word.

Oorbeweiding moet beheer en gestraf word. Die veld wat in een maand vernietig word, neem 10 jaar se goeie reëns om te herstel, indien dit ooit wel herstel.

Wanneer droogtehulp voorsien word, moet veevermindering aangemoedig word sodat die bron, die veld, vinnig en verseker kan herstel na die goeie reëns.

Om voer en vervoer van voer te subsideer is korttermyn hulp wat boere verwelkom, en wat ook baie nodig is. Dit it is egter die aanspreek van ‘n simptoom en nie die oorsaak nie.

Daar moet gekyk word na die vernietiging van veld in kommunale gebiede, na die vernietiging van veld by restitusieboere wat nou op grond gekom het waar veld al byna totaal vernietig is. Ons moet onthou dat daar waar veld vernietig word, is daar ‘n aanspraak op meer veld om te kan oorleef, en dit kan ‘n bose kringloop word. Daarom het ons hier hulp nodig ten opsigte van voorligting en die nodige inligting om mense op plase te hou.

Daar is van ons mense wat nou baie swaar kry, soos u gehoor het - mense wat op pad uit is en mense wat reeds uit is. As ‘n mens nog nie deur ‘n droogte was nie, as jy nog nie deur ‘n droogte geleef het nie, kan jy dit nie rêrig verstaan nie. As jy met jou bakkie of donkiekar deur die veld ry, en skape strompel agter daai bakkie of donkiekar aan met die hoop dat daar nog ‘n mieliepit is, met die hoop dat daar ‘n lusernhalmpie is, en daar is niks, want jy is gedaan - jou stoor is leeg en jou beursie is plat, en al wat jy op daai bakkie of donkiekar het, is ‘n bietjie kalk om op die karkasse te gooi - dan verstaan jy wat droogte is, en dan verstaan jy ook die noodsaaklikheid dat daar ‘n goeie verhouding moet wees tussen die staat en jou boerderygemeenskap, dat daar wedersyds begrip moet wees. Wanneer jy egter deur so ‘n droogte is, dan verstaan jy ook die vreugde van wanneer dit reën, wanneer jy die nat grond ruik, wanneer jy die haasgras byna sien groei, en wanneer die droë stoppels van die gras en van die ganna daardie swart droë veld groen spikkel. Dit is wonderlik. Dit is werklike vreugde.

Ek wil hê dat die Minister duidelik moet verstaan dit is nodig dat plaaswerkers wat swaarkry, die armstes van die armstes soos my kollega hier gesê het, gehelp moet word. Wanneer dit egter goed gaan in die landbou, gaan dit goed met al sy mense, en daarom moet ons ook die kommersiële boer op die grond hou.

In die Noord-Kaap het ons ‘n gesegde dat elke groot droogte deur goeie reëns verbreek word. Daar kom altyd uitkoms, en dan moet ons die mense op die grond hê wat kan voorsien in die voedselsekuriteit van hierdie land.

Terwyl ons egter risiko beheer en bestuur, is dit ook belangrik dat ons na alternatiewe kyk; alternatiewe waaroor ons in hierdie Huis al gepraat het, en waarna die agb Minister al gekyk het, asook die agb Moatshe. Ons moet kyk na alternatiewe waar die risiko beperk is soos met akwa-kultuur, visboerdery in die binneland en aan die kus … [Tyd verstreke.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr A E VAN NIEKERK: Chairperson, thank you very much. When droughts reach disastrous proportions, then the disaster must be managed, and the machinery of the state is currently in better working condition than it was in the past, but there is still room for improvement.

It is important for us as colleagues here to understand the impact of a drought when your entire existence depends on it to be able to survive. When I speak to you, I am speaking in the context of the Northern Cape, and also from the perspective of a stock farmer.

There are two things of which you can be certain in the Northern Cape according to the people from the Northern Cape, and that is death and drought. By grace I am still alive, but I have also lived through a few droughts.

Chairperson, apart from the fact that droughts bring people whether one is an owner or a worker - closer to their Creator and render their prayers more sincere, it also reveals character. It does not shape character; it reveals character.

I remember when I first arrived at the farm. I was in the co-operative and Uncle Soon le Roux came to me and said: Son, how are you doing here on the farm? And I said: Uncle, it is extremely hot and very dry. Then he said to me: Son, complain about things that you can change. You cannot change nature and the climate.

That was a very good lesson, but we can, however, act pro-actively as far as is possible, of course, and we have to look at that. We should postpone disasters as far as possible. We should understand clearly that a farmer that has stock or game on his land, does not farm with stock or game. He farms with bushes or grass, and the cattle or game is value that he had adds to the bushes or grass. In other words, he farms with the veld. It is therefore important that conservation farming is encouraged.

Overgrazing must be controlled and penalised. The veld that is destroyed in one month, requires 10 years of good rains to recover, if it ever recovers.

When drought relief is provided, stock reduction must be encouraged so that the source, the veld, can recover quickly and certainly after good rains.

Subsidising fodder and transport of fodder is short-term relief that is welcomed by farmers, and is also very necessary. However, this is addressing a symptom and not the cause.

The destruction of the veld in communal areas should be looked at, as well as the destruction of veld by restitution farmers who have now come to land where the veld has been destroyed almost completely. We must remember that where veld is destroyed, there is a claim on more veld to be able to survive, and this may become a vicious circle. That is why we need help here with regard to guidance and the necessary information to keep people on farms.

There are some of our people who are now really struggling, as you have heard, people who are on their way out and people who are already out. If one has not been through a drought yet, if you have not yet lived through a drought, you cannot really understand it. When you are driving your bakkie or riding your donkey cart in the veld, and the sheep are tottering behind that bakkie or donkey cart in the hope that there might be another mealie kernel, in the hope that there might be a blade of lucerne, and there is nothing, because you are finished - your store is empty and your wallet is empty, and the only thing you have on that bakkie is a bit of lime to throw on the carcasses - then you understand what drought is, and then you also understand the necessity for a good relationship between the state and your farming community, that there should be mutual understanding.

However, when you have been through such a drought, then you will also understand the joy when it rains, when you smell the wet earth, when you can almost see the silk-grass growing, and when the dry patches of grass and the lye-bush speckle the black dry veld with green. That is wonderful. That is true joy.

I want the Minister to understand clearly that it is necessary for farm workers who are suffering, the poorest of the poor, as my colleague here has said, to be helped. However, when it goes well in agriculture, it goes well with all its people, and that is why we must also keep the commercial farmer on the land.

In the Northern Cape we have a saying that every great drought is broken by good rains. There is always a way out, and then we must have the people on the land who can provide the food security of this country. However, while we are controlling and managing the risk, it is also important that we look at alternatives; alternatives as we have discussed in this House before, and the hon Minister as well as the hon Moatshe had looked at it. We should look at alternatives where the risk is limited, like with aquaculture, fish farming inland and at the coast … [Time expired.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR PROVINCIAL AND LOCAL GOVERNMENT: Chairperson, hon members, we have had fairly good rains in some parts of the country in recent weeks, but there is no reason for us to be complacent and pretend that all is well. South Africa is still in the middle of a severe drought. The experts, the meteorologists and hydrologists, estimate that it would take anything between three to five years of good rains to get us out of this drought. Experts seem to agree that South Africa is a desert-like country where rain is the exception rather than the rule.

Prof Hannes Rautenbach, head of the University of Pretoria’s Meteorology Unit, has been quoted as saying we are on the thirteenth degree of latitude south. It’s a very dry degree of latitude. In both the northern and southern hemispheres it’s the degree on which you find the great deserts. This drought has brought immense suffering to our economy, environment and to the lives of our people, particularly those who live in the deep rural areas. You actually have to visit these areas - the rural areas - to begin to fully understand the negative impact this drought is having on the lives of our rural poor.

The Ministers and Deputy Ministers were deployed in January and February to these drought-stricken areas to go and see for themselves, to listen and to report to communities on what actions Government is taking to alleviate their plight. What we have witnessed was the poor conditions our people have been living under for many, many years. These conditions are aggravated by the ongoing drought, the lack of natural vegetation, and this includes the grass for grazing, the arid lands, crop failure, dying livestock, and we even had to witness livestock that was too weak to walk, with bones protruding through their bodies. This was indeed a sorry sight.

However, we were also overwhelmed by the resilience and humility of our people under these trying conditions. They were full of hope knowing that our Government cares for them, listens to them and responds promptly to their plight. Experts say the current drought is the worse to have hit South Africa in a century. This act of God is a normal and recurrent feature of the South African climate and has resulted in significant economic, environmental and social losses all highlighting our vulnerability to this natural phenomenon.

Drought normally occurs in cycles. Recent droughts experienced in South Africa occurred in 1982-83, 1991-92, 1997-98. Although the 1997-98 El Niño was comparable with the strong El Niño event of 1982-83, the country was fortunate in that the severe and adverse effects predicted at that time did not materialise. It was also reported that the 1991-92 drought had caused serious harm to the economy. It was estimated that about 49 000 jobs were lost in the agricultural sector and about 20 000 jobs were lost in the nonagricultural sector and this was in 1991-92. It also had a negative effect on the country’s current account of the balance of payments.

The effects of the present drought are far worse than that of 1997-98. The dam levels are much lower and the forecast for the remainder of the summer rainfall season suggests a persistence of an erratic rainfall pattern. With the winter season on our doorstep the impact of drought on our people’s lives is expected to worsen, hence Cabinet in January decided to allocate the R500 million for the drought mitigation programme in the next financial year. This is in addition to the R250 million that was allocated last year in October, and a further R250 million that was allocated in January this year for emergency relief.

The overall goal of this programme, amongst other things and as mentioned earlier, is to mitigate the impact of drought across all affected sectors of society in the country, and also to provide assistance to both commercial and subsistence farmers in order to curb job losses and minimise economic setbacks. We would like to emphasise here and now that there is nothing in these allocations that suggests that it is only white commercial farmers who will be the sole beneficiaries of Government’s drought mitigation programme. On the contrary, poor rural households are the main beneficiaries. We are doing this conscious of the fact that it is the poorest of the poor that are worst affected by the drought.

The R500 million budgeted for in the next financial year is for long-term interventions to limit people’s dependence on grants and aid. We need to make sure that our intervention strategies are sustainable and Government, in partnership with all stakeholders, begins to revitalise the agricultural sector so that people can make a living. When our new democratic Government came into power in 1994, it realised that there were serious weaknesses and constraints in the disaster management policy of the previous apartheid government. Since then our Government has developed policies and disaster management strategies that can be implemented in a more proactive way.

After the June 1994 floods on the Cape Flats, Cabinet decided to assess South Africa’s ability to deal with risk reduction and disaster management. This resulted in the review of the disaster management structures and approaches in Government. Drought is one of the natural disasters that are often difficult to manage and cannot be tackled by an agricultural sector alone. The co-ordinated team efforts of a number of role-players are an essential part of the management of drought. It is very important to understand that the costs of mitigating the effects of drought are extremely high and thus the management of resources becomes critical. We must therefore ensure that the management of resources is an integral part of any plan or strategy to address the drought situation.

The Government’s medium to long-term programmes will further strengthen the country’s capacity to moderate the impact of drought. These include asset recovery through preservation of breeding stock, distribution of seeds, improving food and water security, raising awareness and capacity-building at community level and introducing new agricultural, water management and harvesting technologies to mitigate the future impact of drought.

The Disaster Management Act, Act 57 of 2002, also provides for the establishment of an intergovernmental committee on disaster management and a disaster management advisory forum comprising of representatives from all three spheres of government departments, the SA Local Government Association - Salga, business and various nongovernmental organisations which meet regularly. A standing agenda on both these bodies should be the presentation and discussion on predicted weather conditions as it often becomes necessary for policy-makers, agriculturalists, business and the general public to be provided with additional information regarding rainfall for decision-making and planning.

From April last year the National Disaster Management Centre, under the Department of Provincial and Local Government, together with the Department of Agriculture, have issued a number of early warning systems to notify all those affected about expected weather patterns. The early warning system allows the National Disaster Management Centre to forecast weather patterns and it has forecast normal and below normal rainfall for 2003 and 2004. The National Disaster Management Centre is developing an electronic database that contains extensive information on disasters that occur or may occur in Southern Africa, including information on early warning systems.

The following early warning systems are monitored by our National Disaster Management Centre, and information on the development of tropical cyclones in the South Indian Ocean and early warnings are issued to areas expected to be affected: the National American Space Agency website for the development of extreme weather patterns; and Net Forecasting for specific localised early warnings. The Fire Danger Index has been developed for the monitoring of the possibility of veld and forest fires and, in close liaison with Net Forecasting and the SA Weather Service, quarterly updates on the possible development of an El Niño or La Niña are produced.

The Disaster Management Act also provides for an integrated disaster management policy that focuses on preventing or reducing the risk of disasters, mitigating the severity of disasters, emergency preparedness, rapid and effective response to disasters and postdisaster recovery. Disasters in the past were seen in the context of emergency responses and not as part of the long-term planning and development programmes of the Government. The concept of disaster management needs to be integrated into our development strategies as vulnerability to disasters can create development setbacks which result in the aggravation of poverty situations.

Our visits to the drought-stricken areas has also brought home to us the stark reality of underdevelopment, serious backlogs of basic infrastructure and poverty in some of the rural areas. The Minister of Finance, in his Budget Speech, yesterday, referred to the adverse impact of disasters on economic growth. He pointed out that our economy has expanded for 20 consecutive quarters - the longest of continuous growth for over 50 years. However, he said that the preliminary estimate of output growth of 1,9% last year is rather lower than the 3,3% projected this time last year. He said, amongst other things, the factors that contributed to slower growth included a sharp decline in agricultural production as a result of adverse weather conditions.

I should also mention here that the Cabinet has also agreed that the Food Price Monitoring Committee should, especially in this period, pay particular attention to the changes in food prices to prevent any unethical behaviour in the industry. This measure will also go a long way to mitigating the impact of drought on our consumers, especially the poor. Drought also affects the work we are doing as Government in building sustainable rural and urban economies through programmes such as the integrated sustainable rural development and urban renewal programmes.

Some of our poverty alleviation programmes focus on agriculture and it means that when the drought strikes progress is hampered and our programme of building sustainable rural economies is retarded. These projects provide a source of income in addition to food security, and once disaster strikes the consequences are negative. It is for this reason that Government decided that the focus in the next financial year should be on an agricultural recovery programme, amongst others. The Disaster Management Act also provides for the establishment of national, provincial and municipal disaster management centres. This is important in strengthening our system of intergovernmental relations as well as the partnerships with stakeholders which we are building and consolidating as we enter our second decade of freedom.

Partnerships extend to our communities, our commercial farmers, small farmers and subsistence farmers whom we met during our visits to the provinces. In our interaction with them they also made proposals on how we could tackle the drought question. We have taken their suggestions and these will be considered as we implement our drought recovery strategy. We would like to thank all the stakeholders and all our partners for their invaluable contribution.

In conclusion, let me say that the ongoing drought must also teach everyone of us to use and preserve whatever resources we have, be it water or land, in a more efficient and prudent manner. We must start conserving water and begin to appreciate what we have. We cannot survive without water. We need the land. We must commend the interministerial committee referred to by the Minister earlier comprising of the Departments of Water Affairs, Agriculture, Health, Social Development and Provincial and Local Government for the role they played in facilitating the prompt response of Government across the three spheres of Government regarding the plight of those affected by this drought. If we all work together in an integrated way, we can minimise the impact of this drought. So far we have not heard of excessive job losses in the agricultural sector as a result of this drought. There may have been, but I have not heard of any. We wish to thank all our people, organised agriculture, subsistence farmers and other stakeholders for joining hands with Government to minimise the impact of the current drought, indeed a people united for a better South Africa and a better world. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Thank you very much, Mr Deputy Chairperson and hon colleagues.

Our approach to disaster management in general, and in particular with regard to putting in place the measures for drought relief and food security, is informed by the principle of co-operative governance, coupled with public participation. This approach allows us to bring about a conducive environment, and the protection thereof, for sufficient food supply as well as protection of those markets to which we supply these foodstuffs. This allows communities, and emerging farmers in particular, to realise their potential as well as engaging in fulfilling their responsibility of providing the food supply of the country.

Our approach to disaster management has enabled us to manage many other disasters that are inherent to this country, for instance the inherent and prevalent potential disaster in managing our currency, which might be manipulated by external forces. I’m saying we find the management of this disaster easy because we’ve been able to stem the tide of that other disaster I’ve mentioned.

The importance of food security cannot be overemphasised. To illustrate this, we have to reflect for a moment on the scorched earth policy that used to be implemented by commanders in ancient wars. At present some countries in the world are engaged in the so-called weapons-for-food arrangement, because those countries are unable to have a sufficient supply to feed their people.

Reminiscent of our movement, we in the ANC are not only concerned about the food security or drought relief in our own country. As the hon Minister highlighted, we are also concerned about our neighbouring countries. Just to illustrate this point, we may just have to consider how much grain is being transported to neighbouring countries. I happen to live in Mpumalanga, and on a daily basis I count no less than 10 full trucks moving across the border into Swaziland, supplying maize to that country. This is illustrative of our concern for our neighbours.

We must also unashamedly declare here that disasters are no longer completely unforeseeable, and this is not a retributive comment. We have the National Disaster Management Centre whose advice and expertise is noted fully by all role-players in this country. That disaster management centre has the advice and expertise to foresee, to some extent, any potential threat, be it drought or any adverse climate conditions that are forthcoming.

Over and above that, we have as a traditional method, namely the so-called IKS way of forecasting disaster. We also have in our midst, hon members, the so-called rainmakers that we can also rely on. It seems, like the hon Minister highlighted, we do not sufficiently take notice of these advantages that should assist us in order to reduce the severity of any adverse climate or temperature that might befall us.

One is also touched by the comments by the hon Van Niekerk about the tragedy that is facing some farmers. Here I’m also referring to emerging farmers, and also to some of the local economic development projects that are being prioritised by local government. In my mind I have a strawberry project in Carolina that is busy breeding other projects such as the cultivation of vegetables and fruit, thus contributing towards food security in that area.

One of the major agricultural activities that are practised in Mpumalanga is forestry. For our information it would be important to note that we have, at Matimbas in Graskop, the largest sawmill on this continent of Africa and the second largest in the entire world. My friend who works there, when we discussed disasters, especially the drought, informed me that if the quality of trees in the forest continues to deteriorate as it is doing now, we may face a prospect where only brown paper may be produced. [Time expired.]

Mr J P GELDERBLOM (Western Cape): Mr Chairperson, only 30 countries worldwide have less water per capita than South Africa. We therefore rank as one of the poorest countries in terms of available water, and the Western Cape is no exception. In some areas of this province 2003 was one of the driest years in a century. The northwestern areas of the Western Cape receive winter rainfall, but the catchment water diminishes quite drastically as summer approaches. During the critical months of 2003 the winter rains did not materialise and this contributed to the current abnormal situation.

The Karoo is mainly a summer rainfall area, except around Touwsrivier, which falls in the winter rainfall area. In some summer rainfall areas rainfall has been diminishing since 2000 and the effect has been cumulative. Isolated occurrences of good rain were completely overshadowed by the general picture. The bad news is that this year will probably follow the same route; in the Western Cape we expect a dry early winter with poor rainfall predicted for the months of May, June and July.

In communities where agriculture is the dominant activity, the prosperity of local business depends on the agricultural sector. The result of bad times is that both the agricultural and business sectors experience cash- flow problems that, in turn, result in labour cutbacks on farms. The jobless then flock to the towns or cities where unemployment contributes to a rise in crime, inadequate housing, sewerage and water - a potential socioeconomic flashpoint.

The direct consequences to agriculture are not only in the short term. In the long run, a severe drought has an extremely negative impact on the next lambing and/or calving season. In other words, the problems for the drought- stricken farmers do not end after the first rains. The financial impact of this drought will be clearer over the next 18 to 24 months.

The national Department of Agriculture has made more than R15 million available for this financial year to assist farmers who suffer most from the current drought in our province. A working committee has already visited the relevant areas to determine where the need is greatest, and drought relief assistance will be in place as from Friday, 20 February 2004 for those farmers who have registered.

The cost of animal feed and the transporting of fodder will be subsidised at 75% to a maximum of 30 large stock units or equal to more or less 180 small stock units. I would like to bring it to the attention of the Minister that the relief that I have outlined has the potential to assist historically disadvantaged individuals in outlying communities where livestock is often the main source of support.

However, the HDI farmers are most often not on the normal delivery routes and in terms of the rules they are not allowed to use their own vehicles, even if they have transport. The cost of transporting the fodder rises sharply when farmers live in out-of-the-way places: for example, the base subsidy is 50 cents on R2 a kilometre, but when the transport company charges R3 or more per kilometre every cent above the base subsidy, it is for the account of the farmer.

The balance of the cost of fodder amounts to about R90 per large unit of livestock a month, also payable by the farmer. Taken together, the costs are quite simply beyond the reach of these farmers. We have quantified the shortfall of about R1 million in the Western Cape, and we would be able to meet this amount from our farmer settlement programme. However, this is the mandate of the national Department of Agriculture and we need your approval in this regard, Minister. Die Wes-Kaap se ministeriële werkgroep het sekere droogtegeteisterde distrikte omkring en die boere in die distrikte wat vir die droogtehulpprogram klassifiseer is reeds geïdentifiseer. Verskeie omkringde gebiede is deurgegee na die onderskeie landboudistrikte. Registrasie word so spoedig moontlik afgehandel. Voorheen benadeelde boere in die droogtegeteisterde gebiede wat moontlik kwalifiseer, sal deur die beamptes van die Wes-Kaap se departement van landbou besoek word wat hulle sal help om die nodige aansoekvorms in te vul en om die nodige reëlings vir die veevoer te tref. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[The Western Cape’s Ministerial working group circled certain drought stricken districts and the farmers in these districts who qualify for the drought assistance programme are already identified. Various circled areas were submitted to the various agricultural districts. Registration will be finished as soon as possible. Previously disadvantaged farmers in the drought stricken areas who might qualify will be visited by the officials of the Western Cape’s Department of Agriculture who will help them to fill out the necessary application forms and to make the necessary arrangements for the fodder.]

We also note that a further R250 million has been allocated by the Government to drought relief assistance in disaster areas for the whole country for the next financial year. Sixty million rand of this amount will be used in the form of rebates for animal feed and the transporting thereof. The Western Cape will motivate and bargain for a percentage of this amount at a meeting with the directorate on the 9th of March 2004.

Farmers must again regard droughts as a normal part of farming and learn to avoid debt in the fat years. In an ideal situation farmers will create a nest egg for the lean years and commit themselves to sustainable agricultural practices, for example by strictly adhering to the standards regarding the carrying capacity of land.

Ons behoort teen hierdie tyd te weet dat dit oneties sou wees om met die wisselkoers te dobbel. Dit is net so onwys wanneer landbouers of die Regering met die toekoms van landbou dobbel deur nie daarop voorbereid te wees dat natuurrampe van tyd tot tyd sal opduik nie.

Ek wil vandag hulde bring aan die kommersiële boere wat baie ure ingesit het en baie moeite ervaar het oor hierdie droogtetydperk wat agter die rug is en wat nog voorlê. Ek wil dankie sê vir ons plaaswerkers, vir plaasvrouens wat hulle mans in hierdie tye bystaan, vir AgriWes-Kaap, vir die National African Farmers Union en vir hulle wat in hierdie omstandighede die pad vorentoe voorberei vir ons landbou op die akker. Dan wil ek dankie sê vir minister Thoko Didiza vir die wyse waarop sy die afgelope jare landbou gedien het en altyd geluister het na die Wes-Kaap wanneer ons met haar kon kommunikeer.

Ek sê namens landbou in die Wes-Kaap dankie, minister Didiza, vir jou positiewe benadering, vir jou gefokusde houding wat jy teenoor landbou geopenbaar het. Van ons kant in die Wes-Kaap wil die boere en die landbouers, van plaaswerkers tot ander fasette van landbou, jou eer en salueer vir hierdie tyd wat jy na ons geluister het en ook positiewe bydraes gelewer het om landbou te bevorder.

Op dié wat negatief is wil ek vandag ‘n beroep doen: kom word positief en help om landbou die ekonomiese krag te maak, nie net van die Wes-Kaap nie, nie net van Suid-Afrika nie, maar van Afrika, waarin ons ‘n volwaardige rol kan speel omdat ons hier gebore is en hier hoort. Ons het nie ‘n tweede paspoort nie. Ons is Afrikane van Afrika, en daarom het ons ‘n rol om hier te speel en dit wil ons doen. Baie dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[We ought to know by now that it is unethical to gamble with the exchange rate. It is just as unwise when farmers or the Government gamble with the future of agriculture by not being prepared for natural disasters, which will turn up from time to time.

Today, I want to pay tribute to the commercial farmers who put in many hours and who experienced great difficulties during this drought period, part of which is behind us and part of which is still to come. I want to say thank you to farm labourers, women on farm, who support their husbands during these times, to Agri Western Cape, to the National Farmers Union and to those who in these circumstances, prepare the road ahead for our agriculture on the acre. Then I also want to express a word of gratitude to Minister Thoko Didiza for the way in which she served agriculture over the past three years and always listened to the Western Cape when we could communicate to her.

On behalf of agriculture in the Western Cape, I say thank you to Minister Didiza for your positive approach, for your focused attitude, which you had towards agriculture. From our side in the Western Cape, the farmers and agriculturists, from farm workers to other facets of agriculture, we want to honour and salute you for this time, which you listened to us and also provided positive contributions to promote agriculture. I would like to appeal to those who are negative: come let us get positive and help to make agriculture an economic force, not only in the Western Cape, not only in South Africa, but in Africa, where we can play our full and equal role because we were born here and belong here. We do not have a second passport. We are Africans of Africa, and therefore we have a role to fulfil here and that is what we want to do. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Thank you, Chairperson. I wanted to repeat the last words by Mr Gelderblom, but I’ll do that in isiXhosa.

Abakhalazayo basazalwa nanamhla. Bakhona ke abantu abafana nomam’ uGouws; abanganeliyo. Mhlalingaphambili, ndifuna ukuthi … [People will never stop complaining, and people like Mrs Gouws are never satisfied. Chairperson, I want to say … ]

… bad weather, particularly drought, has resulted in acute and chronic food shortages. Over the past 10 years this has been a major source of concern for our Government. As the ANC, we realise the importance of developing a holistic policy approach to drought-related calamities and linking them to overall development strategies. To us, this is a fundamental requirement for increasing food security in a drought-prone environment such as our own. This approach is a far cry from the poorly designed policies of the previous regime in response to food insecurity caused by droughts.

In the past, very little effort was made to understand the coping and survival strategies of drought-affected households. In addition, too little attention was given to designing policies that would reduce the nonagricultural and economywide impacts of droughts. The net result of these policies was an uneven application of drought relief, with a greater focus on commercial farmers at the expense of the most vulnerable and poorest sectors of the farming community. With the advent of democracy and the ascendance of an ANC-led Government with a proper focus, these policies naturally had to make way for drought relief policies that balanced the interest of all stakeholders affected by drought.

As part of our transformation agenda for the agricultural sector, we have devised new strategies to deal with drought-related calamities. The strategic objective of the new policies is to set up a comprehensive drought plan through a system of information management, monitoring and evaluation that will assist in determining vulnerableness to drought, both biophysical and social. This will minimise the impact of droughts, improving and implementing early warning systems, and establishing and implementing priority programmes for risk reduction. The strategy represents a marked departure from the old approach to drought monitoring. Risk management and risk reduction is the core principle of the strategy and is aimed at reducing the vulnerability of farming communities, especially the poor and the disadvantaged.

Our new approach signifies a shift away from the disproportionate emphasis given to major disasters. The Government’s intention is to move away from direct financial intervention and rather improve South Africa’s ability to manage emergencies or disasters, such as droughts and their consequences, in a co-ordinated, efficient and effective manner.

The aim of our Government is to promote a shared awareness and responsibility to reduce risk in our homes, communities, places of work and in society in general. In short, the policy aims to provide an enabling environment for disaster management that promotes integrated and co- ordinated disaster management through partnerships with different stakeholders, through co-operative relations between all spheres of government and the private sector.

As I indicated earlier, a key aspect of the new policy is the integration of risk-reduction strategies into development initiatives. To achieve this, we need to address the challenges posed by the second economy, which our President mentioned during the state of the nation address. Many people in our rural areas are still trapped in the second economy, which constitutes the structural manifestation of poverty, underdevelopment and marginalisation.

Over the past decade, the ANC has developed a number of policies and programmes aimed at empowering our rural communities and creating a people- centred society. Of particular relevance is the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Strategy which provides a blueprint for the creation of socially cohesive and stable rural communities with viable institutions, sustainable economies and universal access to social amenities, able to attract and retain skilled and knowledgeable people who are equipped to contribute to growth and development. According to the President, our task is to move vigorously and implement programmes such as this and ensure that we extricate our rural communities from conditions of poverty. This is the context with which we need to look at the current drought that is affecting some of our provinces.

For us, this is not merely about this particular drought. We need to intervene to mitigate the suffering experienced by communities in the affected provinces. We have done so, indeed. Government has allocated the amount mentioned by both Ministers here to deal with the effects of this drought. It has appointed an interministerial committee, as the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs, Mrs Thoko Didiza, has stated. I don’t have to repeat this.

In conclusion, it is about accelerating development in our rural areas so that natural disasters such as drought will have a minimal effect on the quality of life of rural communities in the future.

Hayi abantu abafana noomam’ uGouws, abangaswelanga kodwa abazenza ngathi baswele. Enkosi, Mhlalingaphambili. [Kwaqhwatywa.] [Not people like Mrs Gouws, who pretend to be needy, whilst they are not. Thanks, Chairperson. [Applause.]]

The MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Thank you very much, hon Deputy Chairperson and hon members. I must indeed say thank you to the wise people of this National Council of Provinces who thought it necessary that we should have this debate, because indeed it is a topical matter. In my view, it is also a matter we would need to continue to engage in, particularly as we take leave and go to our constituencies, so that each one of us can utilise the resources that we have to raise the level of awareness of our people. This would enable us to be better prepared for the next situation.

There are certain issues that were raised by hon members to which I would like to respond. In the debate, hon members have clearly indicated the importance of mitigating the impact of drought or any disasters before they occur. They have also raised the need for a speedy response when such disasters occur, and that for our machinery to be better capacitated so as to respond quickly in the face of such challenges.

Again, I would like to reiterate some of the programmes that we, as Government, introduced to mitigate problems that arise as a result of disasters. The issue of our natural environment was raised by hon Van Niekerk. You would recall that the Department of Agriculture, in particular, put in place the land care programme which was as a result of a USA-South Africa binational discussion, together with the Australian government. That programme placed responsibility for land, water and natural resource management on each one of us so that, as users of the land or its beneficiaries, we can take care of our environment. The programmes that were put in place by the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry regarding Working for Water, and which were aimed at removing alien species, have helped to increase water retention. I know that sometimes we become very sensitive when it comes to this matter, and I will speak about my home city, Tshwane.

Many of us like the jacaranda. The jacaranda trees have become the character of Pretoria. You can’t have a Pretoria without the jacaranda, but the impact of the jacaranda, in terms of your water table, is enormous. The gum tree that you find in a number of our provinces is another species that is foreign, but also has an impact in terms of our water. We have designed strategies to ensure that some of these trees, such as the eucalyptus and gum trees, because of their uses, can be planted in demarcated areas.

We also have had discussions with the Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry and Tshwane municipality to look at how we could have demarcated areas for jacaranda trees that would ensure that you retain the character of the city but, at the same, time limit the expansion. I am using these examples because some of these programmes may look very minimal. Sometimes we may argue about the importance of removing some of the alien species and/or believe that they may be messing up our environment as we know it, but the long-term benefit is that we would be able to improve our water quality.

Regarding farming systems in the agricultural sector, you would see that in a number of farms even farmers have moved away from large irrigation infrastructure, such as centre pivots, to drip irrigation as a measure of maintaining the water resources of our country.

There are some programmes that have come from Water Affairs which have been amplified by municipalities and other Government departments regarding the whole issue of water conservation. I know that sometimes when we are told about how we must utilise water, particularly for bathing and washing, we sometimes think that that is just unnecessary, yet it is an important element for ensuring that we inculcate the culture of saving such a scarce resource in our society.

One other important thing regarding our farming sector is some of the work that we have done through research to ensure that we improve our animal breeds. If one looks at the work that has been done, particularly on the Nguni breeds and Afrikaner breeds, one needs to take into consideration that these hardy animals can survive much better in a drought-prone region than any other herd. Therefore, we have looked at how we could improve meat quality, for instance, as well as better adaptation by these breeds in our farming environment.

What we did with an international research organisation, the CGIAR, regarding the production of one of the grain varieties, the Grace maize, was to ensure that one can deal with the issues of drought and that such a crop can better resist drought, as well as reduce the amount of pesticide that one would use to kill the pests. These, I think, are some of the mitigating strategies that we will have to continue to apply without waiting until a problem has occurred. They would help us to be better prepared in future.

Another issue that was raised, indeed, was our responsive mechanisms. A number of hon members acknowledged that we dealt well with that issue, but that we do need to improve our capacity, and I would agree with them on that score.

I agree with the issue of transport costs, as raised by my colleague, hon Gelderblom. This is a matter we need to look at so that we do not create another stumbling block while we are trying to resolve a problem. Mrs Gouws, just to allay your fears, at no stage are the mechanisms that we have put in place being made to be discriminatory in nature.

We have taken into consideration the views of the farmers of our country, small, medium and large-scale farmers, who have indicated to us the challenges they are faced with. Without exception, all the farmers of our country said that the immediate thing the Government can do to support them in this current crisis would be to assist them with fodder, livestock and water services.

However, what was very interesting for me was that during my visit to the Free State province in December, the Free State commercial farmers said to us, as Government, that while you are doing everything you need to do in support of the farming sector, particularly farmers, we appeal to you that you take into serious consideration the plight of the farm workers.'' I am raising this issue because, contrary to the belief that for some reason Government decided to isolate the farm workers as an important element in this equation, farmers actually made this plea themselves. They said, We don’t want to find ourselves in a situation where we would have to retrench our workers, because they are an important element in our production cycle, but it is also necessary that the Government meets us halfway to ensure that there is food relief, because as we are not planting we may not have enough capital to pay them.’’

So, it is important that we acknowledge that the measure that we have put in place as a means of support for farm workers is actually one of the proposals that were made by farmers. Therefore, we have taken into consideration that it is not everybody who does not benefit.

There are criteria that are used to ensure that those households, particularly farm workers and other neighbouring communities whose livelihoods are intertwined with our farming sector, would benefit, given the scale of need. I know that that was a point of concern, particularly when the President was in KwaZulu-Natal during an imbizo. There was some concern that, while these assessments were correct and necessary, questions would sometimes be asked in our communities. If you give to MaZondi because her situation is worse off than that of Tat’uTshawe, the question will be, ``Why has Tshawe been left out of the equation, because he is in the same condition as the other person who would have been given assistance?’’

Because of the limited resources at our disposal, we actually give to those who are most in need. The way our Social Development departments in the provinces and nationally have tried to work is such that immediate support goes to those who are most in need. It is not that we disregard the levels of need of people, it is just that we think it is important to cushion those who are in dire straits. Therefore, I do not think that we can see that as discriminatory in nature because it takes into consideration the scale of the challenge that we have.

On the issue of the region, as raised by hon Mkhaliphi, indeed it is true that there has been a lot of purchases particularly of grain by members in the Southern African region, given that they are also facing drought. It is for this reason that Cabinet made the decision that the Food Pricing Committee must continue to monitor the trend of prices given the situation that we are in. Even though when the drought came we had surplus grain, because of movements and requirements in the region, South Africa’s price of grain could be put under pressure. Therefore we need to monitor continuously to see whether there may not be intervention made to assist our communities to deal better with the situation.

Hon Deputy Chairperson and hon members, I would like to thank all of you for having participated in the debate and for the passion that you have shown. But, as Reverend R H Schuller said, ``Tough times never last, but tough people do.’’ I trust our farmers, farm workers and communities regarding the fact that the situation that is facing us is not insurmountable. We will go back to the land, regardless of the immediate challenges. In the long term, this core of our people will continue to produce food for food security of this country, as well as ensure that agriculture remains a pillar of our economy. I thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 16:55. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

                     WEDNESDAY, 18 FEBRUARY 2004

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. Fast-tracking of Bills

(1)     The Joint Subcommittee of the Joint Programme Committee  on  18
      February 2004 took a  decision,  in  accordance  with  Joint  Rule
      216(2), that the Division of Revenue Bill [B 4 -  2004]  (National
      Assembly - sec 76) be fast-tracked by, where necessary, dispensing
      with any relevant House Rule or  Joint  Rule  and  shortening  any
      period within which any step in the legislative  process  relating
      to the Bill must be completed, in order to make  it  possible  for
      the Bill to be passed by both Houses during the  current  term  of
      Parliament.


      In terms of Joint Rule 216(4) this decision must be tabled in both
      Houses for ratification.

1. Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism

 (1)    The Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) on 13 February 2004  in  terms
     of Joint Rule 160(3), classified the following Bill  as  a  section
     75 Bill:


     (i)     Public Audit Bill [B 1 - 2004]  (National  Assembly  -  sec
          75)

1. Introduction of Bills

 (1)    The Minister of Finance


     (i)     Appropriation Bill [B 3 - 2004] (National  Assembly  -  sec
             77)


     (ii)    Division of Revenue Bill [B 4 - 2004] (National Assembly  -
             sec 76)


     (iii)   Drought Relief Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 5 -  2004]
             (National Assembly - sec 77)


     Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Finance  of
     the National Assembly, as well as referral  to  the  Joint  Tagging
     Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of Joint Rule  160,  on
     18 February 2004.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the  classification  of
     the Bills may be ubmitted to the  JTM  within  three  parliamentary
     working days.

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Finance

 (1)    The Budget Speech of the Minister of Finance - 18 February  2004
     [RP 19-2004].


 (2)    Estimate of National Revenue for 2004 [RP 17-2004].


 (3)    Taxation Proposals in respect of Income Tax.


 (4)    Division of Revenue Bill [B  4  -  2004],  tabled  in  terms  of
     section 10(1) of the Intergovernmental Fiscal Relations  Act,  1997
     (Act No 97 of 1997).


 (5)    Budget Review 2004 [RP 18-2004], including:
     (a)     Taxation proposals in respect of customs and excise  duties
          [tabled at 14:59]; and


     (b)     "Annexure  E:  Memorandum  to  accompany  the  Division  of
          Revenue Bill",  tabled  in  terms  of  section  10(5)  of  the
          Intergovernmental Fiscal Relations Act, 1997  (Act  No  97  of
          1997).


 (6)    Appropriation Bill [B 3 - 2004].


 (7)    Drought Relief Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 5 - 2004].


 (8)     Explanatory  Memorandum  to  the  Drought  Relief   Adjustments
     Appropriation Bill.


 (9)    Estimate  of  National  Expenditure  2004  [RP  16-2004],  which
     includes:


     1. Memorandum on Vote No 1  -  "The  Presidency",  Main  Estimates,
          2004-2005;


     2. Memorandum on Vote No 2 - "Parliament",  Main  Estimates,  2004-
          2005;


     3. Memorandum on Vote No 3 -  "Foreign  Affairs",  Main  Estimates,
          2004-2005;


     4. Memorandum on Vote No 4 - "Home Affairs", Main Estimates,  2004-
          2005;


     5. Memorandum on Vote No 5 -  "Provincial  and  Local  Government",
          Main Estimates, 2004-2005;


     6. Memorandum on Vote No 6 - "Public Works", Main Estimates,  2004-
          2005;


     7. Memorandum  on  Vote  No  7  -  "Government  Communications  and
          Information System", Main Estimates, 2004-2005;


     8. Memorandum on Vote No 8 - "National Treasury",  Main  Estimates,
          2004-2005;


     9. Memorandum on Vote No 9 - "Public Enterprises", Main  Estimates,
          2004-2005;


     10.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  10   -   "Public   Service   and
          Administration", Main Estimates, 2004-2005;


     11.     Memorandum on Vote No 11  -  "Public  Service  Commission",
          Main Estimates, 2004-2005;


     12.     Memorandum on  Vote  No  12  -  "South  African  Management
          Development Institute", Main Estimates, 2004-2005;


     13.     Memorandum on Vote No 13 - "Statistics South Africa",  Main
          Estimates, 2004-2005;


     14.     Memorandum on  Vote  No  14  -  "Arts  and  Culture",  Main
          Estimates, 2004-2005;


     15.     Memorandum on Vote No 15  -  "Education",  Main  Estimates,
          2004-2005;


     16.     Memorandum on Vote No 16 - "Health", Main Estimates,  2004-
          2005;


     17.     Memorandum on Vote No 17 - "Labour", Main Estimates,  2004-
          2005;


     18.     Memorandum on Vote No 18 - "Science and  Technology",  Main
          Estimates, 2004-2005;


     19.     Memorandum on Vote  No  19  -  "Social  Development",  Main
          Estimates, 2004-2005;


     20.     Memorandum on Vote No 20  -  "Sport  and  Recreation  South
          Africa", Main Estimates, 2004-2005;


     21.     Memorandum on Vote No 21 -  "Correctional  Services",  Main
          Estimates, 2004-2005;


     22.     Memorandum on Vote No 22 - "Defence", Main Estimates, 2004-
          2005;


     23.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  23  -  "Independent   Complaints
          Directorate", Main Estimates, 2004-2005;


     24.     Memorandum on Vote No  24  -  "Justice  and  Constitutional
          Development", Main Estimates, 2004-2005;


     25.     Memorandum on Vote No 25  -  "Safety  and  Security",  Main
          Estimates, 2004-2005;


     26.     Memorandum on Vote No 26 - "Agriculture",  Main  Estimates,
          2004-2005;


     27.      Memorandum  on  Vote  No  27  -   "Communications",   Main
          Estimates, 2004-2005;


     28.     Memorandum on Vote  No  28  -  "Environmental  Affairs  and
          Tourism", Main Estimates, 2004-2005;


     29.     Memorandum on Vote No 29 - "Housing", Main Estimates, 2004-
          2005;


     30.     Memorandum on Vote No 30 - "Land Affairs", Main  Estimates,
          2004-2005;


     31.     Memorandum on Vote No 31  -  "Minerals  and  Energy",  Main
          Estimates, 2004-2005;


     32.     Memorandum on Vote No  32  -  "Trade  and  Industry",  Main
          Estimates, 2004-2005;


     33.     Memorandum on Vote No 33  -  "Transport",  Main  Estimates,
          2004-2005;.


     34.     Memorandum on Vote No 34 - "Water  Affairs  and  Forestry",
          Main Estimates, 2004-2005.

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development

 (a)    Report and Financial Statements  of  the  Commission  on  Gender
     Equality for  2002-2003,  including  the  Report  of  the  Auditor-
     General on the Financial Statements for 2002-2003 [RP 71-2003].


 (b)    Government Notice No R1755 published in  Government  Gazette  No
     25795 dated 5 December 2003: Amendment of the rules regulating  the
     conduct of the proceedings of  the  various  Provincial  and  Local
     Divisions of the High Court of South Africa, in terms of the  Rules
     Board for Courts of Law Act, 1985 (Act No 107 of 1985).

                          19 FEBRUARY 2004

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Council of Provinces

1. Messages from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council

 (1)    Bills passed by  National  Assembly  on  19  February  2004  and
     transmitted for concurrence:


     (i)     Local Government: Municipal Property Rates Bill  [B  19B  -
             2003] (National Assembly - sec 75)


     The Bill has  been  referred  to  the  Select  Committee  on  Local
     Government  and  Administration  of   the   National   Council   of
     Provinces.


     (ii)    South African Citizenship Amendment  Bill  [B  55  -  2003]
             (National Assembly - sec 75)


     (iii)   Films and  Publications  Amendment  Bill  [B  61B  -  2003]
             (National Assembly - sec 75)
     The Bills have been referred to  the  Select  Committee  on  Social
     Services of the National Council of Provinces.

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Council of Provinces

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Prevention and Combating of Corrupt Activities Bill [B 19B - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 11 February 2004:

   The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the subject of the Prevention and Combating of Corrupt Activities Bill [B 19B - 2002] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports the Bill with proposed amendments, as follows:

Insert 1ATC1902e

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Protection of Constitutional Democracy Against Terrorist and Related Activities Bill [B 12B - 2003 (Reprint)] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 11 February 2004:

   The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the subject of the Protection of Constitutional Democracy Against Terrorist and Related Activities Bill [B 12B - 2003 (Reprint)] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports the Bill with proposed amendments, as follows:

INSERT 2ATC1902E

1. Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the Communal Land Rights Bill [B 67B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 18 February 2004:

   The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having considered the subject of the Communal Land Rights Bill [B 67B - 2003] (National Assembly - sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.