WEDNESDAY, 9 MARCH 2005 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

                                ____

The Council met at 15:00.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                WOMEN AND THE ENVIRONMENT CONFERENCE


                         (Draft Resolution)

Ms M F MATLANYANE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council -

 (1)    notes that South Africa has successfully hosted the first ever
       "Women and the Environment Conference" at Misty Hills,
       Muldersdrift, near Krugersdorp, from 6 - 8 March;

 (2)    also notes that the conference showcased the best practices in
       environment management as pioneered by women in this country;


 (3)    further notes the additional function of the conference to
       assess the role of women in waste management, fishing, and
       conservation over the last ten years of Freedom in this country;
       and


 (4)    congratulates the department and the Ministry  of  Environmental
       Affairs and Tourism on an excellently organised conference  that
       sets up an opportunity to  continuously  assess  our  gains  and
       challenges as we strengthen the role of women in all sectors  on
       our road to developing our country.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Is there any objection to the motion?

Mr M A MZIZI: This is not an objection. I just want to enquire about a principle. I made a similar suggestion in the programming committee: Whilst we have suspended the motion without notice, could there be any flexibility about accepting motions without any political connotation? I was kicked out, and the programming committee said the principle remained the same until further notice. I don’t know. I am not against the motion as such, but I am just enquiring about the principle.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Thank you, hon member, so the motion is agreed to in other words.

Motion agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

      APPOINTMENT OF MEMBERS TO THE JUDICIAL SERVICE COMMISSION

                         (Draft Resolution)

The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Deputy Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Council, I move the draft resolution printed in his name on the Order Paper, as follows:

 That, in terms of section 178(1)(i) of the Constitution, the  following
 persons be designated to serve  on  the  Judicial  Service  Commission:
 Mahlangu, M J; Mokoena, M L; Setona, T S; Van Heerden, F.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): There is no speaker’s list. I shall now put the question. The question is that the motion be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present? Yes.

In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make declarations of vote if they so wish. We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of, or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: Siyaxhasa. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Free State?

Mr T S SETONA: We agree.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Gauteng?

Mr S SHICEKA: We support it.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: IKwaZulu-Natal iyavuma. [KwaZulu-Natal agrees.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Limpopo?

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Ya amogela. [Agrees.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Mpumalanga?

Ms M P THEMBA: Mpumalanga supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Northern Cape?

Mr K SINCLAIR: Northern Cape supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke ya rona. [North West supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Western Cape?

Ms N NTWANAMBI: IWestern Cape iyahambisana. [Western Cape agrees.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Nine provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to in terms of section 178(1)(i) of the Constitution.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 178(1)(i) of the Constitution.

        APPOINTMENT OF MEMBERS TO THE MAGISTRATES COMMISSION
                         (Draft Resolution)

The ACTING CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Deputy Chairperson, on behalf of the Chief Whip of the Council, I move the draft resolution printed in his name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the Council appoints  the  following  members  to  the  Magistrates
Commission: Hollander, P; Windvoël, V V Z; Mabe, E S; Worth, D; Mzizi, M
A (Alternate).

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): There is no speaker’s list. I shall now put the question. The question is that the motion be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present? Yes. In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make declarations of vote if they so wish. We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of, or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: Supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Free State? Mr T S SETONA: Free State votes in favour.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Gauteng?

Mr S SHICEKA: We support it.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: IKwaZulu-Natal iyaxhasa. [KwaZulu-Natal supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Limpopo?

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Mpumalanga?

Ms M P THEMBA: Mpumalanga supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Northern Cape?

Mr K SINCLAIR: Northern Cape supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke ya rona. [North West supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Western Cape?

Ms N NTWANAMBI: Elethu. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Nine provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to.

Motion agreed to.

         WOMEN OF THE WORLD CELEBRATING A DECADE OF PROGRESS


                      (Subject for Discussion)

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Sorry, members, there has been a change in the programme, because Minister Pahad is not here yet. [Interjections.] Oh, the Minister has arrived. Thank you, Minister. We welcome Minister Pahad to the National Council of Provinces. I now call on the hon Minister Pahad to open the debate.

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Thank you very much, Chairperson. My apologies, Madam Chair, as your amended programme said notices of motion would last approximately 20 minutes. So the idea was that we would start this debate at 15:20, but thank you for starting earlier.

Hon members of the National Council of Provinces, I am honoured indeed to be part of this important debate on “Women of the world celebrating a decade of success”. The struggle for democracy in our country would not have been successful without the enormous contributions and sacrifices made by the women of our country. To them, all of us in this august assembly owe an enormous debt, for without them we would not be here today.

The struggle for gender equality has a long and rich history. The meeting of the Socialist International in 1910 saw the establishment of Women’s Day. The idea was to honour the movement for women’s rights and to build support for achieving universal suffrage for women. Later, in 1913 to 1914, International Women’s Day became a mechanism for protesting against war.

Since those early years of the international women’s movement, International Women’s Day has assumed a new global significance for women. Today it is a mass celebration by women of the whole world, celebrating, the progress achieved by the women of the world. Most importantly, the day is a celebration of the achievements of ordinary women who have made a tremendous contribution within their local communities, making a difference in the lives of those around them.

International Women’s Day is a day for women to encourage each other at various levels, to say as women that they will continue to work together to change their world. It is an affirmation that the world can indeed be changed.

Women at the Fourth World Conference on Women held in Beijing, China, in 1995 declared, and I quote:

 We, the women of the world, dedicate ourselves unreservedly to
 addressing the constraints and obstacles, and thus enhancing further
 the advancement and empowerment of women all over the world, and agree
 that this requires urgent action in the spirit of determination, hope,
 co-operation and solidarity now and to carry us forward into the next
 century.

South Africa, for the very first time, officially participated in the Fourth World Conference on Women held in Beijing, China. The women who were gathered in Beijing were determined to push forward their vision to create a world that recognises the rights of women to equality, peace and development.

Our government welcomed, endorsed and adopted the Beijing Platform for Action that emerged from the conference. Looking back at the priority areas that were set out a decade ago, one cannot help but recognise the achievements of women in implementing objectives that were stipulated in Beijing. From 1995 to 2002, 48 African countries prepared national plans of action for poverty reduction that included gender concerns. Furthermore, some African countries have strategies for supporting women’s entrepreneurship through microcredit schemes and capacity-building in enterprise management.

During the past decade there have been improvements in basic education in many countries. Many African countries have made progress in reducing illiteracy levels, particularly among women and girls. In the past decade, progress in the promotion and protection of the human rights of women has concentrated on strengthening legal and policy frameworks. Women’s voices in conflict prevention and peace building are sometimes heard only faintly. This should be a call for continued focus on women in conflict and postconflict situations.

In the last decade, some African countries have prioritised women’s health as an area of concern. This has resulted in increased attention being given to the reproductive health and rights of women, encouraging breastfeeding and other infant feeding options, making facilities available for the management of sexually transmitted diseases, including HIV/Aids, and raising awareness among men regarding their responsibilities in reproductive health.

African governments have established various mechanisms at different levels, including national machinery, to mainstream gender in the formulation of policies, plans and programmes, and in policy advocacy, and to monitor and evaluate the implementation of international, regional and national commitments.

The past decade has seen different international conferences reaffirming the international commitments to gender equality and women’s empowerment. According to the report from the African Regional Conference on Women, the decade following the adoption of the Beijing Platform for Action has witnessed many changes on the African continent, including the development of regional declarations and mechanisms on gender and development.

The advances achieved on democracy and peace fronts at the national level have contributed to positive change at the regional level. The creation of the African Union, which is committed to the principle of gender equality and equity, provides further opportunities for the increased participation of women in national, subregional and regional decision-making.

The African Union Commission was formed on the basis of gender parity. Article 6 of the Constitutive Act of the African Union States, about the election of members of the commission, that, firstly, the election of members of the commission shall be governed by the rules of procedure of the Assembly of the executive council and these statutes.

Secondly, that the region from which the chairperson and the deputy chairperson are appointed shall be entitled to one commissioner each. All other regions shall be entitled to two commissioners. Thirdly, and here is the critical element, that at least one commissioner from each region shall be a woman. Let me say that they were able to find the women commissioners before they could find the men.

  Further, the heads of states and government of member states of the
  African Union, meeting in the third ordinary session of our Assembly
  in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, from 6 to 8 July 2004, signed a solemn
  declaration on gender equality in Africa. Article 5 of the declaration
  called on them to “expand and promote the gender parity principle” –
  the gender parity principle - that we have adopted regarding the
  commission of the African Union to all other organs of the African
  Union, including its Nepad programme, to the regional economic
  communities, and to the national and local levels in collaboration
  with political parties and the national parliaments in our countries.
  That is 50%:50%.

The first Speaker of the AU Pan-African Parliament is a woman, and at least one in every five national members of the Pan-African Parliament is a woman. The protocol to the African Charter on Human and People’s Rights on the Rights of Women in Africa has been adopted. Nepad is expected to enhance women’s human rights through the social development indicators included in its African Peer Review Mechanism. It is commendable to see that governments in Africa are equally committed to changing and empowering the women of the continent.

In 1995 our Parliament ratified, without any reservations, the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women, Cedaw. In total, 51 of the 53 African member states have ratified the convention known as the “women’s international bill of rights” and 17 have signed the optional protocol. Some countries have aligned their national legislation to the provisions of Cedaw.

Earlier this month Cabinet approved the optional protocol for ratification, and Parliament is in the process of finalising the ratification and will then inform the United Nations of its decision. So, I hope we will have a unanimous vote when it comes before the NCOP later today.

Women around the world are increasingly participating at all levels in decision-making bodies. South African women are especially highly motivated in advocating and mobilising other women to take a hands-on approach to issues of women’s empowerment, fighting violence against women and the protection of women’s rights.

While much progress has been made, many women, especially disabled women in rural areas, still face enormous, daunting challenges. Women continue to suffer under extremely abusive and violent conditions. It is for this reason we say, as we celebrate a decade of women’s progress, that we must not fail to remember the work ahead. We are by no means there yet. The challenge remains huge. Statistics that are emerging to mark the 10th anniversary of Beijing show us how much remains to be done worldwide. We must say, Yes, indeed we have made progress in the past decade in laying down the legislative and policy frameworks as the basis for the work ahead. The next decade should be about working towards implementing our commitments.

We in South Africa live in an era of urgent, stepped-up delivery. And the cause of women - the equity and social justice they justly demand and justly deserve - is very much part of the package that we must deliver. President Mbeki has cracked the whip in public and driven the nation to new heights of delivery with a new, detailed programme of action that appears on, and is monitored by, the Worldwide Web. We are just about the only country in the world that does this.

We in South Africa do have a remarkable history of women’s efforts to inspire us and to drive us on to success. One thinks here of the many pioneers of women’s rights down the years, most notably those women who braved the Union Buildings in the 1950s, then an apartheid citadel, to protest against the very idea that black women should carry passes. It is a matter of great pride and privilege to me that my mother was one of them.

We as nation managed a remarkable transition to democracy in 1994. As the 21st century unfolds, we must quicken the pace of ensuring the true and full emancipation of women. We can justifiably take pride in our Constitution, and specifically the Bill of Rights, Chapter 2, that proclaims the equality of all and prohibits discrimination on a number of enumerated grounds, including race, gender, sex, pregnancy and marital status. Chapter 9, section 187, of our Constitution also provides for the establishment of a Commission for Gender Equality. In 1996 this commission was created.

Allow me to end by recalling the words of former President Mandela who, in his inaugural speech in April 1994, noted that democracy in our country would not be achieved, and I quote: . . . unless we see in visible and practical terms that the condition of the women in our country has radically changed for the better and that they have been empowered to intervene in all spheres of life as equals with any member of our society.

Let us therefore, hon members, join hands, women and men, and rededicate ourselves to achieving gender equality in our society. We should expect nothing less from ourselves and nothing less from our government, for gender equality is critical to our national wellbeing. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Ms M P THEMBA: Deputy Chairperson and hon members, with reference to women of the world celebrating a decade of progress and South Africa bettering the lives of women in our developmental democracy, I want to address you today on how our countries have prepared the ground to provide women the space within which to participate in our developmental democracies.

I address you with the knowledge that women have always been the glue in their families, communities and society. They have always been at the forefront, struggling to survive. They have always been first to care for others. Indeed, our women have led from the front in the struggle to liberate our people. They continue to do so today during this time when we lead the process of transforming our society. As I speak, women are gathering in New York to assess the progress that has been made since 1995 when they made the commitment in Beijing.

What are we in fact really celebrating? Certainly, we are celebrating the progress that we have made towards equality between women and men. We have come a long way, and we are celebrating our solidarity with women around the world in all countries. And, as we do so, we must particularly remember those living in conflict and in poverty, those whose rights are violated daily.

As we celebrate, we should also reflect on where we stand in the country, how far we have progressed and what we still need to do to achieve those rights and opportunities that are integral parts of our rights as citizens.

Women are increasingly well educated. More and more girls are outperforming boys in primary and secondary education. [Laughter.] Yet, these achievements are not reflected in professional life. The glass ceiling and the sticky floor continue to be realities for women all over the world.

Women continue to shoulder the bulk of the responsibility of caring for children and elderly relatives. The reconciliation of work and family life, which we talk about so much, is still mainly regarded as a woman’s problem in some countries.

I know from my own experience, and particularly from my experience here in Parliament, that gender balance has resulted from clear political decisions in that the balanced presence of women and men makes a difference. Different decisions are made and, I believe, they are better decisions. They are better because they reflect a wider range of concerns, in that they take account of the priorities of the whole of society, not just half of it and, because of that, it is more likely that the decisions work in place.

The barriers we face as women are complex and structural, so reforms have to be incremental - and they can seem painstakingly slow. Some of the challenges we face today include the question of ensuring that managers, in all sectors, are evaluated on how well they are able to develop all their staff, men and women. We should not raise our eyebrows if a man asks for a flexible working arrangement in order to assume his share of the family responsibilities. And, if a woman does the same, we should not assume that it is a sign that she is not committed to her career.

I believe that the success of the reforms of our government should be judged on how well they are using their human resources and especially on how they overcome their failure to use the full potential of women. Gender equality goes hand in hand with democracy at all levels.

Women’s rights are human rights. Freedom from discrimination, as embodied in the Freedom Charter, is the cornerstone of our democracy. But democracy requires more than an absence of discrimination. It needs governance, and good governance means sharing the power to make decisions in politics, in economic and social life, in public administration and in the home.

The values that the ANC has espoused from its founding date till the present can be listed as: justice, equality, respect for human and women’s rights, love, sharing, caring and unity for all the people. Great strides have been made over the past 10 years, particularly in the lives of women, by the government led by the ANC. We have achieved many admirable milestones in the struggle to equalise opportunities for our daughters, granddaughters, aunts, sons, mothers and grandmothers, and so on.

The first democratic nonracial, nonsexist government in our motherland has, since its inception in 1994, set out to transform the quality of life and status of women with vision and vigour. This vision emanates from the views that all South Africans share. It is a vision that stems from the struggle for the emancipation of all South Africans, no matter what their race, class, culture or gender. This vision is enshrined in the Freedom Charter. There must be no doubt about this.

The adoption of the new Constitution of South Africa, which has been declared one of the most progressive legal frameworks worldwide, cannot be separated from the vision that the Freedom Charter spells out for the nation. And, because of the link between these two key policy documents, the Freedom Charter and the Constitution, the adoption of the Constitution was a major victory for all the women of South Africa. It has been stated that the Constitution is their charter rights. It embraces the hopes and aspirations of women and men, many of whom sacrificed their lives fighting for justice and equality in our country.

We have to recognise the role of women in the prolonged struggle against oppression. This struggle spanned the urban and rural communities, the old and young, women and men who fought against the pass laws, repression and forced removals, exploitation and abuse, poverty, extreme deprivation, inferior education and laws that discriminated against women. It was from this struggle that the vision that was scripted in the Freedom Charter emerged to represent the needs, aspirations and visions of a new united nation, in which empowered women and men led transformation and development together.

The right to equality is the cornerstone of our Constitution, and all other rights … [Time expired.][Applause.]

Ms S S CHEN: Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, International Women’s Day yesterday afforded an excellent opportunity to celebrate the achievements of women over the past 10 years, to acknowledge their dedication and commitment to uplifting their status in society, and, at the same time, to highlight the challenges that women continue to face today.

Despite 10 years of democracy and progress, women in South Africa remain economically, politically and socially disadvantaged. Without access to adequate educational and economic opportunities, the fundamental human rights of women are placed at risk. Women therefore need to be empowered through the creation of an economic environment that is conducive to women participating in business.

Research conducted by the Businesswomen’s Association on the companies on the JSE and 17 state-owned enterprises found that only 7% of directorships were held by women and that only 14,7% of executive managers were women. Almost 60% of South African boards have no female board representation at all.

The Department of Trade and Industry has launched initiatives such as Technology for Women in Business and the SA Women Entrepreneurs’ Network in order to encourage the participation of women in the economy. Additional programmes, however, need to be introduced in order to unleash the potential of women as entrepreneurs and key role-players in the corporate sector.

These programmes must aim to improve women’s access to loan finance; amend regulations and legislation which can have a constraining effect on the economic progress of women; increase education opportunities in order to facilitate the acquisition of skills; and ensure that there are adequate job opportunities available to women.

Ultimately, though, these efforts will come to naught if attitudes in broader society remain unchanged. Notwithstanding the progress of women over the past 10 years, there are still obstacles that women face in achieving greater economic upliftment. Government needs to ensure that its commitments to achieving gender equality are successfully implemented, and that the scope of economic empowerment is widened in order to provide opportunities to empower women. Without increased involvement in the economy, women in South Africa will be unable to truly progress. Thank you. [Applause.] Ms A N T MCHUNU: Chairperson, women of all races in any country are the backbone of families, communities, societies and governments, and behind every successful man is a woman. I feel it is time now that we should all say, “Behind every successful woman is a man.” [Applause.] Men and women work as partners, supporting and guiding each other. Warm families with strong moral codes are needed for the proper upbringing of children and role-modelling.

Women of courage have made struggles of liberation successful, and I will come back to our South African soil. We have a long list of our heroines who will live forever in our memories. Some are alive and others are in the warm hands of our Maker. I have in mind women – ladies - like Mrs Ella Nxasana, Mrs Hilda Manyathi, Mrs Albertina Sisulu, Prof Fatima Meer, Princess Magogo Buthelezi, Ms Bertha Mkhize, Ms Dorothy Nyembe, Ms Helen Joseph, Ms Helen Suzman, and lately Ms Wangari Maathai, the Kenyan environmentalist who became the first black woman to win the Nobel Peace Prize.

Four international women’s conferences on women’s issues have been held. In all these conferences the lead issues were the eradication of poverty and the empowerment of women. In South Africa our Constitution has empowered us as women. We need to get our act together and commit ourselves to assisting in particular the less fortunate ones, particularly our sisters.

Legislation does not do the work; it is the people who go out there to make things happen. Women in South Africa have worked side by side with men to lessen each other’s burdens. As from 1982, the unaccepted, ill-resourced KwaZulu government managed to get rid of the oppressive Zulu code of law which left women double oppressed. And then the 1996 South African Constitution widened that to include all marginalised women in South Africa.

There are challenges to love and care, especially with the Aids pandemic that is facing us today, and the rape and murder of women, which I just don’t know why they are on the rise. This scourge is undermining our success. Although the available statistics are apparently not correct, we have to refer to them nevertheless. They will guide us, and we will have to make a difference.

If we look at the present statistics, we notice that from 1997 to 2002, 22 989 women aged 30 to 34 years died from Aids; for women aged 25 to 29 years the figure is 22 813; for women aged 35 to 39 years the figure is 19 099; and for women aged 44 to 49 years the figure is 15 221. We found that the percentage distribution of female deaths by age are: from age 30 to 34 years it is 10,1%, and from 35 to 39 years it is 8,2%.

When we look at the sex ratios of deaths by age, the leading province this time is KwaZulu-Natal with 116 982, followed by Gauteng with 95 186 and, thirdly, the Eastern Cape with 73 072. I will stop there with the statistics. We need to work hard and be committed as women. We cannot give this job of caring and nursing our sick to any other person, because if we do not care for the sick . . . [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Rev E ADOLPH: Thank you, Madam Chair. Today I speak as part of a woman. [Laughter.] I am a man but I am also part of a woman. It is indeed an honour and a pleasure to participate in the celebrations of women in terms of the progress that has been made over the past decade. We especially celebrate with ordinary poor women in our country and elsewhere on the globe their great achievements.

Regarding International Women’s Day, which we celebrated yesterday, the ID wants to celebrate with all women the considerable progress they have made, especially in terms of their sizeable contribution towards the upliftment of the poor. Whilst we acknowledge and recognise their contribution, we are also mindful that much still remains to be done in the struggle to uplift the status of women.

We salute the South African government of today. For the past decade they have put women in key positions, elevated the status of women, and seen them as our counterparts and as part of the building of the country. The ID recognises the achievements of Kenyan ecologist Wangari Maathai, who recently became the first African woman to receive the Nobel Peace Prize for her work in environmental affairs. She has unequivocally proved to be an achiever.

In South Africa we also have very significant women. We have our own icons

• ordinary women who gave their lives to the struggle against oppression. We all know who they are. Some women, of course, are still living in poor, harsh conditions, and we would also like to think of them whilst we celebrate. Women of the world are crying, especially if one thinks of the mothers in Iraq. They are crying today. I think also of those in the Republic of Congo and in the Darfur region. We have sympathy for the women of Palestine, but we also sympathise with the Jewish mothers because they are artificially separated and polarised by political endeavours.

But we have to be honest on the other side as well in that whilst we are celebrating, women are still suffering and living in harsh economic situations and circumstances. This is because sometimes they are very unsafe, and sometimes they suffer owing to a lack of income and just maintain the family on a meagre salary. Millions of women still suffer from the pain of sexual abuse, cultural suppression, domestic violence and so forth.

Today we are challenged to educate women. Women must be educated to liberate themselves. You can’t oppress an educated woman. There is no way on earth that we can allow subordination if women are educated. About two thirds of women are illiterate across the world, and almost two thirds of the women who are literate . . . [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr K SINCLAIR: Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, International Women’s Day is a day to commemorate women’s struggle for change and to celebrate the progress made towards improving the quality of life of women. It’s a day of reaffirming our commitment to working towards the liberation of women.

While many aspects regarding the situation of women have been improved, much remains to be achieved. Even as we consider the great advances made towards gender equality and equity over the past nine years, we need to be sensitive to the harsh realities that still face the majority of women in South Africa. It is the women who bear the brunt of poverty. Their lives are still characterised by low levels of literacy and by inequitable access to education, adequate food, health care, housing, water and fuel sources. I therefore want to add my voice to the plight of the rural women of this country.

A former Prime Minister of Israel, Golda Meir, once said, and I quote:

  Let me tell you something that we Israelis have against Moses. He took
  us 40 years through the desert in order to bring us to one spot in the
  Middle East that has no oil.

Maybe the time has arrived that we in South Africa also start asking these questions of women’s organisations but, more than that, of the leaders of women’s organisations. The critical question that needs to be answered is: Where are they taking us? We must get to the point at which we get answers to that specific question. Like Golda Meir, we can’t allow a situation in which we get to the point at which we ask the question: Where are the women of this country going? The critical challenge for all of us is that we must address the backlogs of the past. Women need to be in a position in which they make a difference, even though the struggle against colonisation and apartheid is over.

I want to end with a quote from a learned Nigerian professor. He once said to an august gathering of women, and I quote:

Armed with the power of knowledge that is derived from sound and
qualitative education, African girls and women may prove to be the
missing link between Africa and social cohesion, political stability,
economic development, unity and civilisation.

Maybe that is what we need in South Africa. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms D ROBINSON: Hon Chair, hon Minister and hon members, it gives me great pleasure to participate in this debate celebrating the progress that has been made in this decade. We have made giant strides on all levels.

We see women as successful Ministers of state, directors-general and judges. There are women in boardrooms. Many run their own businesses, small and large. In the business world, women used to refer to the glass ceiling that was a barrier, but now there are cracks in that glass ceiling and they are able to make their way to the top based on competence. Yet, there is long way to go before we break some of the gender stereotyping.

Ten years have passed during which we have been governed by a nonsexist Constitution that has taken a stand against patriarchy, sexism and homophobia. Yet women continue to be raped, abused, marginalised and exploited. Far too many children and women are raped. Women should have the right to control their own bodies. They should have the right to insist on the use of condoms without being beaten up. There are too many men who still refuse and, therefore, knowingly infect their partners and kill them

• a slow and painful death.

There needs to be an awareness that freedom does not mean the right to do whatever you want to. Freedom means respecting the rights of others too. We need our politicians and leaders to come out strongly on this. All who are vulnerable need to be protected. We realise that not all men are abusers, but we ask you to put pressure on those who do to practice safe sex and to be role models for responsible behaviour.

At the recent conference on Women and the Environment held in Johannesburg this week, it was stated that the centre of development in the country lay in the emancipation of women and that women, particularly in the rural areas, are involved in providing food, shelter, water and sanitation. We feel that these people need to be involved to a greater extent, not just in being volunteers or doing menial jobs, but to be part of the management, part of the organisation, because they have the wider picture. But for this we need education; we need capacity-building.

This brings me to my favourite topic of education and libraries. For once, I agree with Mr Sinclair. We need to promote a culture of reading, writing and education. More emphasis needs to be given to adult basic education. That culture of learning needs to be established. We must become a nation of readers. We need libraries, and not just to read little stories, but as resource centres where people can improve their minds about all aspects of their lives. This is a form of recreation, a common problem especially in rural society where there is nothing to do. Children need books; all adults need to read.

I appeal to our Ministers, Minister Manuel particularly, to set aside funds for libraries to augment the education that would turn us into a winning nation so that women can lead and carry on with the good work. Thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Madam Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, let me respond to Mr Sinclair’s question, which was “Where are we taking you?” We are taking you to a destination where you will find a broad women’s movement based on nonracism and nonsexism, where women will be free to choose, and where women will be united around certain issues that affect them all.

Secondly, let me say now that Mrs Chen is here that she must be honest with herself and other women. It is not true that women are not participating in this country and that women in this country are not empowered. This is one country that has done its best to empower women. She has been empowered, in particular, because she runs businesses from Cape Town to China, in Hong Kong and everywhere else. [Interjections.] So she must be honest about this. But let me quickly move on.

I chose to focus on the girl-child today, as a parent, and of course because today’s girl is tomorrow’s woman. In the past week, women of the world gathered in New York, celebrating a decade of progress and seriously discussing women’s issues. This was a follow-up to the Beijing landmark gathering, which took place 10 years ago.

One of the underlying principles of the Beijing Platform for Action is equality as a human right and a matter of social justice, and it is also a prerequisite for development and peace. A partnership based on equality between men and women is an important tool for people-centred development. It is therefore important that we focus on the girl-child as one of the Beijing Platform for Action’s critical focus areas.

As South African women, and as the ANC Women’s League in particular, we have always been proud of our slogan “Malibongwe igama lamakhosikazi!” [In the name of women!] [Interjections.] We say so as champions of human and women’s rights, not only in our country but on the continent as a whole. In every society and every community, we women are pillars who have worked for a better South Africa and a better world. Therefore we have every reason to celebrate their achievements in this decade. Women have an enormous impact on the wellbeing of their families and societies, yet their potential is not being realised because of discriminatory social norms, incentives and legal institutions. While their status has improved in recent decades, gender inequalities remain pervasive.

Gender inequality starts early and keeps women at a disadvantage throughout their lives. In some countries infant girls are less likely to survive than infant boys because of parental discrimination and neglect, even though, biologically, infant girls should survive in greater numbers. Girls are more likely to drop out of school and to receive less education than boys because of discrimination, educational expenses and household duties.

As a Xhosa-speaking person, I know there is the saying in Xhosa: “Ikamva lentombazana lisemzini wayo.” This means your future is not in your home, but somewhere where you are not even known, where people have a right to abuse you. This says you give your in–laws the power to abuse you, which is not right.

The differences between boys’ schooling and girls’ schooling are greatest in regions with the lowest primary school completion rates and the lowest average incomes. In low-income countries, the percentage of girls’ enrolment in primary and secondary education – as opposed to the percentage of boys - was 84%, compared to 101% in upper middle-income countries.

Gender disparity at school is still serious in many sub-Saharan African and South Asian countries. In South Africa, reducing education costs, improving equality, tackling parental concerns about female modesty or safety, and increasing the returns to families that invest in family schooling are factors that can overcome social and economic barriers to girls’ education.

The advent of democracy and the historical eradication of centuries of apartheid rule in our country have seen the introduction of a number of progressive pieces of legislation aimed at transforming our society from an oppressive and discriminatory one to one that is based on equality.

Amongst some of the laws that our government has passed to abolish discrimination and restore the dignity of the girl-child are the Child Care Amendment Act and the Maintenance Act. There is also the establishment of the Girl Education Movement, and the Men in Partnership Against Aids campaign that empowers boys to be ambassadors on issues of gender and violence against women and children and to challenge any violent behaviour meted out against girls by their peers. There are many but, owing to time constraints, I cannot touch on all of them.

Lastly, I want to say that with these legislative developments in our country, there still remain challenges in Africa as girl-children are still victims of armed conflict, there is violence against women and children, and there is child trafficking. The SA Women in Dialogue, led by our first lady, Comrade Zanele Mbeki, facilitated a peace dialogue between South African, Congolese and Burundi women on issues that affect women and children in armed conflict. This process assisted these women better to understand the management of peace and stability in their countries.

Let us conclude by emphasising the point, when we speak of women, the girl- child and armed conflict, that we are proud to tell the world that we are working with women in countries where there are conflicts, and that Africa, like South Africa, will belong to all who live in it, and its wealth will be shared by all who live in it as well. Thank you, Madam Chairperson. [Applause.]

The MINISTER IN THE PRESIDENCY: Madam Chair, the one wonderful thing about the NCOP is that you don’t have to “shaya”. [Laughter.] You are so nice in this house, so it’s difficult to reply. I want to really say thank to all of the speakers who spoke here, and for what they said.

However, it seems to me that perhaps we need to look at ourselves as elected representatives of our people in the national Parliament. At the moment 32,75% of the members of the National Assembly are women, and 35,18% of the members of the NCOP are women. So, you are doing much better.

Now, if we are going to fulfil the requirements the heads of state of the African Union determined last year in terms of gender parity, we have to ask ourselves the question: How then do we get to a situation in which there will be 50% representation of women in all our elected institutions?

Actually, if you do a breakdown of the figures, and I’m just stating a fact

• not for party-political purposes - you will find that the figures are high because of the representation of women in the ANC. I’ve said so before in the National Assembly and I want to say it here: I think we need to discuss this matter. I don’t know what conclusion we will arrive at. I think we need to discuss whether or not we need legislated quotas.

Now I agree that if you are the single representative of Azapo, you can’t divide yourself into three. But there seems to me no significant reason why, if a party has a minimum of three representatives, one should not be a woman. I think we need to discuss this matter seriously, because it is going to be difficult for us to keep on increasing the numbers of women, which we must do, in our elected institutions, if, as it is at the moment, the issue is left purely to the decision of individual parties. I think we must discuss this matter. Do we or do we not need legislation which would impose a one-third quota on all political parties wishing to be represented in Parliament, the provincial legislatures and our local government structures.

Where we do best, as a legislature and as an executive, is where the President has the powers of appointment. At the moment 42,8% of all Ministers are women, and 47,6% of all Deputy Ministers are women. And this is because the appointments are done by the President. Four out of nine premiers are women. And, I think, that’s the approach we need to take: if we do not have a systematic, very determined, very cohesive approach to the appointment of women to senior positions, their appointment will not happen on its own.

Therefore, we need to continue to discuss this amongst ourselves. I believe this discussion can take place cutting across party-political lines, so that we don’t get embroiled in party-political fights, which we should do, and which we do. What is it that we need to do as a nation? What is it that we need to do as the elected representatives of the people of South Africa to ensure that we continue to expand the number of women in our elected institutions and indeed in occupying all of the necessary positions that we have, whether as Whips, chairs of portfolio committees or presiding officers? Of course, the NCOP has a gone a bit backwards from four to three. But, never mind, three out of four is still very good in terms of the main presiding officers we have.

Lastly, let me say that in 10 years we’ve moved from being one of the most sexist societies in the world to one of the leading countries in the fight for a nonsexist society. I think that’s a remarkable achievement by anybody’s standards.

Lastly, Madam Chair, my PA says that you were the best and finest teacher he ever had, and he said I must make this public declaration in his name. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Thank you, hon Minister Pahad. We thank you for your participation and for the informed debate. Thank you very much.

  WORLD HEALTH ORGANISATION FRAMEWORK CONVENTION ON TOBACCO CONTROL


  (Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Social Services)

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Deputy Chair, hon members, despite widespread knowledge of the harm caused by smoking . . . [Interjections.] [Laughter.] Let me just say that I am not the only smoker in this House. Whilst I deliver my speech I will mention the others by name. [Laughter.] Despite widespread knowledge of the harm caused by smoking and concerted tobacco control efforts in the last decade, only modest success has been achieved in lowering the impact of tobacco mortality and morbidity.

Tobacco use is considered to be one of the chief preventable causes of death in the world. In South Africa it is an ever-increasing health and economic problem. In 1990, 25 000 tobacco-related deaths were reported. In 1994, estimates of the economic cost of deaths in terms of loss of productivity owing to premature death and hospitalisation exceeded an amount of R2,5 billion, while the direct cost of hospitalisation and outpatient treatment for smoking-related diseases in the public sector alone was approximately R1,5 billion that year.

Between 1970 and 1995 the World Health Organisation adopted 14 resolutions on the need for both national and international tobacco control policies. Member states were encouraged to implement comprehensive tobacco control strategies that contained the following. Deputy Chair, whilst you are in the Chair, and I know you are a smoker yourself, I want you to listen very carefully. [Interjections.] These were measures to ensure that nonsmokers received the effective protection to which they were entitled from involuntary exposure to tobacco smoke; measures to abstain from the use of tobacco so as to protect women and young people from becoming addicted; and the establishment of programmes of education and public information on tobacco and health issues, including smoking programmes.

The Framework Convention on Tobacco Control and its protocols before us today seek to protect present and future generations from the devastating health, social, environmental and economic consequences of tobacco consumption. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] In terms of the general obligations and to ensure achieving this objective of the convention and to implement its provisions, parties shall be guided by the following principles. Deputy Chair, whilst I am paging over to the next page, I want to say that the hon member Priscilla is also a smoker. [Laughter.]

In terms of these principles every person should be informed of the health consequences, addictive nature and moral threat posed by tobacco consumption and exposure to tobacco smoke. Effective legislative, executive and administrative measures should be contemplated.

Strong political commitment is necessary to develop and support, at the national, regional and international levels, comprehensive multisectoral measures and co-ordinated responses, taking into consideration the following: the need to take measures to protect all persons from exposure to tobacco smoke; the need to take measures to prevent the initiation, to promote and support cessation, and to decrease the consumption of tobacco . . . [Interjections.]

Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson, on a point of order: Is it parliamentary for a member, when debating such an important matter, to lie to the public from the podium? [Laughter.] Could the hon member please withdraw?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, much as I understood this to be a joke, I think for the record you must withdraw it, because the public will capture it and she does not smoke.

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, I withdraw. That was a joke. [Laughter.]

There is also the need to take measures to promote the participation of indigenous individuals and communities in the development, implementation and evaluation of tobacco control programmes that are socially and culturally appropriate to their needs and perspectives; and the need to take measures to address gender-specific risks when developing tobacco control strategies.

Furthermore, the convention spells out key provisions with regard to the measures related to reducing the demand for tobacco; price and tax measures; packaging and labelling; and the regulation and disclosure of contents of tobacco products. Moreover, it commits parties to raise public awareness through education, communication and training programmes.

The convention also, and importantly so, obliges parties, in accordance with its constitution, to undertake a comprehensive ban on all tobacco advertising, promotion and sponsorship. [Laughter.] It is indeed so that even up until today, if you look at rallies on television, you will still see that there are some tobacco advertisements at those races. As a government we are in the process of working with other countries to make sure that they don’t advertise tobacco products.

Significant for us as South Africans is the fact that our country chaired the second session of the intergovernmental working group of the FCTC and hosted the first groundbreaking intercessional Afro meeting that consisted of African countries. This was held in March 2001. The treaty was then signed on Youth Day in 2003, and we undertook to strive in good faith to ratify the convention and show political commitment . . . [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present? Yes.

In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make declarations of vote if they so wish. Is there any province that wants to make a declaration of vote? No. We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of, or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: In favour.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?

Mr T RALANE: Iyaseketela. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?

Mr S SHICEKA: We support, Chair.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal is in favour.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo steun. [Limpopo supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?

Ms M P THEMBA: Mpumalangu iyasekela. [Mpumalanga supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?

Mr K SINCLAIR: Northern Cape supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West is in favour.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?

Mr F ADAMS: Wes-Kaap steun. [Western Cape supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                 OVERSIGHT VISIT TO SENTECH, GAUTENG



  (Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Labour and Public
                            Enterprises)

Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson, I am tabling the report and ask the House to adopt the report. I thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. [Interjections.] It is procedural. She has tabled the report. The report was in the ATC and was adopted by the committee which represents all provinces.

As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes.

In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. Is there any province wanting to make a declaration of vote? No.

We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: Eastern Cape siyaxhasa. [Eastern Cape supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?

Mr T RATLANE: Iyaseketela. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?

Mr S SHICEKA: Supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Ri khou tendelana nawo. [We support it.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?

Ms M P THEMBA: Mpumalanga supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?

Mr F ADAMS: Northern Cape supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: Ke a rona. [Agrees.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?

Mr K SINCLAIR: Wes-Kaap steun. [Western Cape supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

PROVINCIAL STUDY TOUR

(Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs)

Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson and hon members, this statement is on the annual report of the provincial study tour by the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs to the provinces of Limpopo, Gauteng, the Northern Cape and the Free State from 10 to 13 August 2004.

The hon President of the Republic of South Africa, in his 2005 state of the nation address, captured the evolving role of members of Parliament within a co-operative governance framework. The following statement was made in President Mbeki’s state of the nation address on 11 February 2005:

We also highly appreciate the oversight role as well as the direct contribution in the . . . actual implementation of our public representatives in all the three spheres of government. We are confident that hon members will persist in this service to the people, so as to improve our work, all-round.

This captures the important oversight component of the work of hon members of Parliament during committee meetings, public hearings, oversight visits, debates in the Houses, budget and legislative processes, in taking Parliament to the people and constituency work.

In the South African Parliament, committees are increasingly becoming visible in the process of finding innovative solutions to the challenges facing South Africa. Parliamentary committees oversee the activities of government departments, statutory bodies, state-owned enterprises and various other forms of social and economic activities.

In the light of the statement made on the crucial role of hon members of Parliament in oversight, the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs has, over the years, tracked the legislative and implementation process of various government programmes in its cluster. However, 2004 and 2005 began the shift in focus with an increased emphasis on oversight to gauge the progress, achievements and challenges confronted in delivery targets.

It is within this framework that a statement is made on the report that covered the study tour by the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs to Limpopo, Gauteng, the Northern Cape and the Free State from 10 to 13 August 2004. Sample studies of projects were undertaken as part of the oversight visit to gauge the developments, progress and challenges encountered in the implementation of aquaculture production in South Africa, as well as the provision of water and sanitation services.

Some of the issues that emerged that focused specifically on aquaculture production – obviously, policy on aquaculture is long overdue - in South Africa encompassed, inter alia, the need for an aquaculture institute that would offer various services such as research, marketing strategies, training and skills development, collaborative partnerships, etc. The private-public partnership could be strengthened.

The various stakeholders maintained that aquaculture production in South Africa has great potential for job creation and poverty alleviation. The provision of water and sanitation services differed from province to province.

However, some common factors that were highlighted, which will give an indication of how to address these problems, were the slow facilitation of project disbursements; a need for the protection of water services; increasing or skilling municipalities to handle the services to the respective communities; the development of effective water management institutions; developing and establishing water services, monitoring and information systems; reviewing their approach to sanitation services; and provision to achieve sustainability, effectiveness, efficiency and affordability of services.

The details of the above summary can be accessed from the longer report compiled by the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs. I therefore table this statement on the report before this House for adoption. I thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: As there is no speakers’ list, I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present? Yes.

In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make declarations of vote if they so wish. Is there any province wanting to make a declaration of vote? There is no province. We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: Supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?

Mr T RALANE: Steun. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?

Mr S SHICEKA: Siyaxusana. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: IKwaZulu-Natal iyaxhasa. [KwaZulu-Natal supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo iyaseketela. [Limpopo supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?

Ms M P THEMBA: IMpumalanga iyasekela. [Mpumalanga supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?

Mr K SINCLAIR: Northern Cape supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: Ke ya rona. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?

Mr F ADAMS: Steun. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                        STUDY TOUR TO LIMPOPO

(Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs)

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Thank you, Chairperson. The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs undertook a study tour to Limpopo from 11 to 15 October 2004. The purpose of our visit was to look into the activities of three departments, namely Justice and Constitutional Development, Correctional Services, and Safety and Security. We also wanted to see if our justice system was effective. That is why our visit looked into the whole justice cluster.

We visited police stations and even holding cells. We visited magistrates to see if cases were being heard expeditiously, taking care that the justice administrators were never compromised. Overcrowding in our prisons is a key challenge for various departments that are responsible for ensuring the effective administration of our criminal justice system.

Let me deal with the Justice and Constitutional Development department. When visiting magistrates’ offices, we were impressed with the attitude of some of our magistrates and prosecutors. In many offices the following concerns were raised by magistrates. Some offices were dilapidated, the culprit in this being the Department of Public Works. For example, for a requisition to be responded to, it would take no less than three months, if you were lucky.

Security was cause for concern for many of our magistrates. A shortage of interpreters was also a serious problem. In some cases you would find six courtrooms in a magistrate’s office with only three interpreters available. That then meant that the other three courtrooms could not function.

Another problem that was raised by magistrates was the exodus of experienced prosecutors. They leave for greener pastures, for example to go the bench or the private sector. Those who have been employed to replace them are so inexperienced that they cannot even stand the heat from lawyers.

On the other hand, the committee was disturbed to discover that there were some magistrates who were not willing or prepared to play ball. They were reluctant to make use of section 62F of the Criminal Procedure Act. This permits them to use their discretion if an accused is given bail of R1 000 or less. For instance, a young boy who was given bail of R400 for stealing an avocado has already spent two years in an awaiting-trial prison. Some of the magistrates were reluctant to make use of section 276, which would have enabled them to do what we call “diversions”.

Let me speak about the Safety and Security department. Our men and women in blue need to be honoured for their efforts. More arrests are made than ever before. People are now prepared to report their cases. As members can see from our report that has been tabled before them, there are some police stations that need a total revamp or to be built afresh. There is no privacy when women go to report rape cases at some of our police stations owing to a shortage of office space. One woman said she was expected to explain what transpired during the rape in front of everybody in a small office. We think this is unacceptable.

One of the complaints that was raised by some of the station commissioners was a shortage of vehicles in order to respond swiftly to calls. There is also a shortage of personnel at many of our police stations. There are serious shortcomings in this department as well. The committee discovered that many of our police officers were unable to take statements properly that would lead to successful prosecution. This is a serious concern because many cases are lost owing to insufficient evidence or poor investigation. It was also revealed that there was no proper co-ordination between investigators and prosecutors. Again, this makes it easy for clear- cut cases to be thrown out.

It was also revealed that there are many police officers who are declared unfit to possess a firearm. This needs to be addressed as quickly as possible. One other problem that was identified was what we call the toll- free number, or 10111. Some people preferred to drive to police stations rather than call this number. I think we can do better than that.

Many of our police officers need counselling because of the stressful conditions under which they work. This will assist in avoiding the many cases of suicide committed by many of our police officers. Some even go to the extent of wiping out their whole family, later killing themselves. Let us do something about this.

Let me speak about Correctional Services. This department is at the receiving end. Whatever happens in both the Departments of Justice and Constitutional Development and Safety and Security ends up at the door of this department. We visited some of the prisons in the province. Overcrowding not only negatively affects the Department of Correctional Services’ ability to rehabilitate offenders, but also creates a problem for the SA Police Service whose cells routinely exceed their holding capacity. You can see this in the report we have submitted to the Council.

Many of our prisons in the province are overcrowded. This committee was made to understand that as long as there was no proper co-ordination between the Department of Correctional Services and the SAPS, overcrowding would be with us forever. What makes the situation so bad is that the rehabilitation programme put in place by this department cannot be effective because of overcrowding.

Another problem that was identified by this committee was the integration of prisoners, into their communities on being released. The stigma that is attached to these prisoners already makes it difficult for them to adjust to some conditions. There is the example of a boy, a soccer player, who was arrested and spent four years in prison. When he was released, the coach put him in the very first team, but his very same team players refused to play because they said they couldn’t be associated with this criminal. That had to be addressed. I think, here, that we need more correctional centres in our areas or vicinities.

Our recommendation as a committee is that all the said departments now come together and deal effectively with some of the problems identified by the committee. If not, we will be left with no option but to force them to sit down and talk. As a committee we will follow-up to see to it that our recommendations are implemented.

We want to thank all those officials in this cluster who are prepared and who are dedicated to bettering the lives of all our people. Let me, once more, thank the committee members, whom I call the “Mokoena detachment”, for their unconditional commitment to this cluster. It is true that no matter how deep the bottle, the cream will remain on top. I now submit to this Council this report for adoption. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Order! As there is no speakers’ list, I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present. Are all delegation heads present? Yes.

In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. Is there any province that wants to make a declaration of vote? No. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: Supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?

Mr T S RALANE: Ya seketela. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?

Mr S SHICEKA: Ke ya rona. [Supports.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal iyaxhasa. [KwaZulu-Natal supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Re a e thekga. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?

Ms M P THEMBA: Steun. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?

Mr K SINCLAIR: Supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: Ke ya rona. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?

Mr F ADAMS: Steun. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

           INTERVENTION IN THE ELUNDINI LOCAL MUNICIPALITY


(Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Local Government and
                           Administration)

Mr S SHICEKA: Deputy Chair of Committees, the Select Committee on Local Government and Administration is presenting a report on the Elundini Municipality in the Eastern Cape under the Ukhahlamba District, bordered by Lesotho, the Free State and the Northern Cape. We are here to solicit support from this august House for the intervention by the Eastern Cape government.

This municipality serves a population of about 371 170 people, according to the last census. Elundini comprises the established municipalities of Maclear TLC, Mount Fletcher TLC and Ugie. Elundini Local Municipality has a collective executive system combined with a ward participatory system, and is composed of 16 wards and 16 proportional representation councillors. If you add this up you get 32 councillors. The breakdown is as follows: 28 ANC members and four UDM members.

Elundini falls within the jurisdiction of the Ukhahlamba District. It is one of the 13 rural development nodes earmarked and identified by the President to be part of the Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programme.

This intervention, as we present it, by the Eastern Cape provincial government should cease by the end of April 2005. However, we must look at the areas of intervention we want dealt with. Firstly, the quality of service should be visible, including the provision of free basic services. A healthy environment should be created, in which the bucket system as a form of sanitation, is eradicated. Waste needs to be managed regularly. There should be the building of strong financial systems that promote accountability, value for money, revenue-raising mechanisms and prudent expenditure approaches.

The municipality must build and strengthen an administration that is responsive to the needs of the people, and an administration that is informed by the principles of Batho Pele under the clarion call “We serve and we care.” The council should build and strengthen the organs of people’s power through ward committees, informed by the clause in the Freedom Charter that says “The people shall govern.”

These structures should ensure that the people take charge of their own destiny. They should be sustained as they deepen our democracy. The needs of our people should be community-driven through the IDPs, which must be linked to budgets in a participatory budgetary system.

The provincial government should submit monthly reports to the committee in order to allow the committee to monitor progress and intervene where necessary. The committee will meet with the new MEC for Local Government and discuss this report, including the recommendations and timeframes. The committee will, in its programme, make follow-up visits to all municipalities where interventions have occurred.

It is in the interests of this House that we touch base with the people for their observations of the positive impact of these interventions. I humbly request this august House to adopt the Elundini intervention with the recommendations of the committee, as it has satisfied itself with the subjective and objective conditions obtaining in that area. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: As there is no speakers’ list, I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present? Yes.

In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. Is there any province that wants to make a declaration of vote? No. We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: Supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?

Mr T RALANE: Ke ya rona. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?

Mr S SHICEKA: Sihamba nayo, baba. [Support it, Sir.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Votes in favour.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?

Ms M P THEMBA: IMpumalanga iyasekela. [Mpumalanga supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?

Mr K SINCLAIR: Supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: Ke a rona. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?

Mr F ADAMS: Wes-Kaap steun. [Western Cape supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

OPTIONAL PROTOCOL TO THE UNITED NATIONS CONVENTION ON THE ELIMINATION
            OF ALL FORMS OF DISCRIMINATION AGAINST WOMEN


(Consideration of Report of Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement
               of Quality of Life and Status of Women)

Ms M P THEMBA: Hon Chairperson, hon members, since our first democratic election in 1994 much has changed in this country. South Africans in general, but particularly women, have been centrally involved in the sphere of human rights, more specifically in the important sphere of the elimination of discrimination against women.

The significant role we played has been recognised and applauded by especially the committee of the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, Cedaw. This committee is responsible for supervising state parties’ obligation under the Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women. It receives reports from states that have ratified and adopted the convention. One hundred and sixty-two member countries of the United Nations are party to the convention, making it the most widely ratified human rights treaty in the world dealing with measures required for the elimination of discrimination against women.

South Africa ratified Cedaw on 15 December 1995. We also reported to Cedaw our efforts to eliminate all forms of discrimination against South African women in 1998. This adoption is therefore not the first interaction that we, as South African women, have had with the Cedaw committee. It must be stated that this is a relationship of mutual respect that is driven by a deep-seated commitment to improving conditions in terms of the difficulties and suffering that were caused in the past.

Our history of struggle against oppression is well documented. That alone does not suffice in making our country blemish-free as far as discrimination against women is concerned. Our struggle was based on firm principles of equality, dignity, nonracism and human rights. The struggle was guided by the vision of the Freedom Charter.

During this current period of reconstructing and transforming this country, we remain firmly committed to the principles as scripted in the Freedom Charter. It remains our road map to free all humans, women in particular, from discrimination and oppression.

In this regard, the Cedaw committee’s positive responses to the 1998 South African report must be noted. It refers to the exemplary manner in which the Constitution protects the rights of women. In particular, it mentions the work done by the Joint Monitoring Committee on the Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Women in reviewing the gender implications of legislation.

However, consistent with the ratification of Cedaw in 1995 and acting on our committed vision for equality for all and the elimination of discrimination against women, the ANC government has continued with groundbreaking legislation that improves women’s lives.

Guided by the knowledge of our violent and oppressive past and following the vision of the Freedom Charter, we have improved women’s lives in a variety of ways. We enacted the Domestic Violence Act; we strengthened the Social Grant System; we . . .

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Hon member, I am afraid your time has expired.

Ms M P THEMBA: I ask the House to adopt the report. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: As there is no speakers’ list, I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As this decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes.

In accordance with . . .

Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson . . .

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Yes, hon member?

Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson, my 10 minutes are not finished. [Laughter.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Yes, this sounds quite . . . [Inaudible.] . . . very seriously. I am not sure. Can you double check? Maybe this thing is broken. You can look here. I am also double checking. I am not only checking one clock, hon members. [Interjections.] Yes, it is working. I appreciate the anxiety of members. [Laughter.] Maybe I was supposed to say it was a groundbreaking record in this House when hon Shiceka took only five minutes to present the report of his committee. I think that was groundbreaking. [Interjections.]

In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish.

We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of, or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: Eastern Cape supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?

Mr T RALANE: Free State ha yi seketela. [Free State supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPETRSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?

Mr S SHICEKA: Ke ya rona. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: IKwaZulu-Natal iyavuma. [KwaZulu-Natal supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo ha yi seketela. [Limpopo supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?

Ms M P THEMBA: Mpumalanga supports. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Her time has expired. [Laughter.] Northern Cape?

Mr F ADAMS: Northern Cape supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: Ke ya rona. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?

Mr K SINCLAIR: Wes-Kaap Steun. [Western Cape supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

The Council adjourned at 16:48. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson Report of the Auditor-General on the Performance Audit of Overall Management Measures at Ntsika Enterprise Promotion Agency [RP 11-2005].

National Council of Provinces

1. The Chairperson

 The following statements have been submitted to the National Council of
 Provinces by the MEC for Local Government, Housing and Traditional
 Affairs in KwaZulu-Natal in terms of section 106(3) of the Local
 Government: Municipal Systems Act, 2000 (Act No 32 of 2000):


 (a)    Investigation at the Umzinyathi District Municipality

 (b)    Investigation at the Ezinqoleni Municipality

 These statements are referred to the Select Committee on Local
 Government and Administration.

 Copies of these statements are available from the office of the Clerk
 of Papers.