WEDNESDAY, 25 MAY 2005 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

                                ____

The Council met at 15:02.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the NCOP I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That the Council -

(1) notes with shock that two years after opening a murder case against her mother’s employer, after their dog brutally attacked and killed her, Kedibone Makwela from Atteridgeville has complained that no progress has been made with the case;

(2) further notes that, according to the Tshwane police spokesperson, the case was only referred to the Director of Public Prosecutions on Friday last week for a decision;

(3) acknowledges that the SAPS is very busy and that there are many cases they have to deal with every day, but that it is totally unacceptable that Miss Makwela has had to wait for two years for any progress to be made; and

(4) urges the relevant authorities to take the necessary steps to speed up the progress of this case.

Mr B J TOLO: Chair, I give notice that I will move at the next sitting of this House on behalf of the ANC:

That the Council-

1) notes the manner in which the Presidency has been restructured over
   the last few years so as to become an engine of integrated governance
   that researches, analyses and strategises in an even more efficient
   and an effective manner to ensure the stability and development of
   South Africa and our African continent;


2) commends our President, the Deputy President, the Minister in the
   Presidency, the Director-General of and the staff in the Presidency
   for the sterling work they are doing to strengthen and sustain this
   integrated form of governance that fits our ever deepening democracy;

3) assures this leadership of our collective support and continuing
   effort similarly to forge ways of effecting change and of deepening
   our democracy in this Council, and through our intergovernmental
   links with the provincial legislatures and local government;

4) urges all reasonable and patriotic South Africans to commit
   themselves to the collective effort of developing our nation and our
   continent, now and in the future; and

 5) recognises and celebrates the excellent manner in which our
    leadership is leading our country, both at home and abroad.

Mnr J W LE ROUX: Mnr die Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag sal voorstel:

Dat die Huis daarvan kennis neem dat-

(1) gemeenskappe regoor die land in opstand kom teen wanbestuur en gebrek aan dienslewering in die ANC-beheerde munisipalerade;

(2) woedende inwoners paaie versper deur buitebande aan die brand te steek en die polisie met klippe te gooi; (3) inwoners al 11 jaar wag vir huise wat aan hulle belowe is, en dat huise toegeken is aan persone wat nooit op waglyste was nie;

(4) die polisie die betogers met traangas en rubberkoeëls onder beheer moes bring; en

(5) versoek derhalwe die Huis om ANC-wanbestuur van munisipale rade te debateer as ‘n saak van dringendheid. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr J W LE ROUX: Mr Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the House I shall move:

That the Council notes that–

(1) communities all over the country are revolting against maladministration and a lack of service delivery in ANC-controlled municipal councils;

(2) angry residents barricaded roads by setting alight tyres and stoning the police;

(3) residents have already been waiting for 11 years for houses promised to them and that houses are allocated to persons who have never been on any waiting list; (4) the police had to bring the demonstrators under with tear control gas and rubber bullets; and

(5) therefore requests the House to debate ANC-maladministration as a matter of urgency.]

                             AFRICA DAY

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr T RALANE: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council –

(1) notes that–

    (a)      25 May 2005 is Africa Day;


     (b)      it is a day that symbolises a renewed sense of our
         identity; and


    (c)      it is a day on which we look in the direction of Africa,
         to salute its achievements and potential to work for its
         future;


 2) endorses the role played by our President, Mr Thabo Mbeki, in
    promoting the African Renaissance; and


 3) looks forward to the day when the African continent takes its
    rightful place in international events on a par with other
    continents and other global players.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

               ACCIDENT AT BUILDING SITE CLAIMS LIVES

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr E M SOGONI: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council–

(1) expresses shock at the tragic accident in Randburg on Tuesday, 24 May, in which four construction workers lost their lives;

(2) notes the efforts of rescue services to save the lives of these workers and their colleagues;

(3) further notes the vulnerability of lower-paid workers of our country, who daily toil in poor and dangerous conditions due to low wages; and

(4) implores the Department of Labour to -

     (a)      conduct a thorough investigation into this incident;


     (b)      ensure that both the injured and the bereaved families are
         speedily and appropriately compensated; and


     (c)     ensure that the health and safety standards  that  workers
          fought so hard to achieve are not compromised.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution

                         APPROPRIATION BILL


                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 4 – Home Affairs:

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Hon Chairperson, hon members, our Director- General Mr Maqetuka, deputy directors-general, senior managers of our department, dear friends, let us take this opportunity once more to honour the memory of the late Comrade Joyce Kgoali, a former Chairperson of this House. She was a dedicated leader of our people, a comrade and a sister to us all. I think we should remember her. The last time I presented my budget to this House, she was still the Chairperson of the NCOP. And so, appropriately, we start today by devoting our thoughts and prayers to her.

On Friday, 13 May, we had an opportunity, after the launch of our mobiles, for the first time to address a sitting of the Eastern Cape Provincial Legislature. Using this rare opportunity, I had lamented the fact that because our work is determined as a national competence, there has not been a very dynamic link between our department and other provincial structures, including public representatives.

I raised this issue because the work that the department does is premised on the delivery of services directly to our people, and as a result requires input from these structures.

Before we left the legislature, I appealed to them that it would be very helpful if their own oversight work could be extended to cover the Department of Home Affairs in that province. I thought we should share this experience we had in the Eastern Cape with you, hon members, because I truly believe that the beginning of such a dynamic link with the provinces can only start with this House. So, accordingly we will need to extend this plea to you as well. For this reason it is significant for us that we have this opportunity to present our Budget Vote to this upper House of Parliament, and we do so here today.

We promised during our previous Budget Vote speech to this House that we would use this budget not only to present our plan for this year, but also to report back to you on progress we have made in implementing the undertakings made to you in 2004. In this regard, allow me to draw the analogy that if our work was to be likened to tilling the land and growing of food, then the ground at the Department of Home Affairs is fertile and ready. We believe that in the past 12 months we have seen good rains, and we are therefore ready to deliver to the public the benefits of our efforts in this regard, through a recognisable improvement in service delivery.

As you will recall, hon members, we had committed ourselves before all of you here to dedicating most of our time and resources towards ensuring that the department does not continue to be a source of frustration to the millions of South Africans and foreigners that interact with us. Today we are able to report to you that we are succeeding in this regard. Most of the things we said we would do, we have done.

Firstly, we had said we would ensure convenient access to our services, particularly to those of our people who have to travel long distances in the rural areas to get to a Home Affairs office or service point. We have put in place a number of initiatives aimed at bringing our services closer to those who find it difficult to get to our offices.

In the first place, we moved to provide relief for the millions of mothers with newly-born babies around the country who have to travel to our offices and stand in long queues. At times they stand for hours without getting the necessary relief. For this reason, we provided registration facilities at 69 hospitals around the country for new mothers to register their children directly after birth. This has also made it possible for the speedy processing of child support grants for those children who qualify.

This programme is a further consolidation of the birth registration campaign we launched during the year 2002 to ensure that all South African children are registered in a population register. In addition to this, we have also sought to provide relief mostly for rural communities by building 67 state of the art mobile units, fully computerised and equipped with satellite connectivity, to provide real-time processing of applications, and the speedy issuing of all enabling certificates in rural communities.

Ten of these mobile units were unveiled at the ceremony in King William’s Town in the Eastern Cape on 13 May. We see the unveiling of these mobile units as an important start to ensure that the state fulfils its obligation to provide every citizen with a claim to such citizenship, one they can be proud of, and one that entitles them to receive other services of government.

Hon members might have seen that a certain number of our offices are already open beyond working hours during the week, and until lunchtime on weekends. This is part of the flexi-hours system that we now intend to implement in all our provinces as part of our programme to provide convenient and easy access. [Applause.]

Secondly, we said we shall provide relief for women who fraudulently married people they have never met in a bid by unscrupulous people to obtain South African citizenship. You will recall that at the beginning of the month of August last year we launched a campaign on the registration of marriages and the verification of their status. We had called on all South African women to come forth and verify their marital status on the national population register. This was to ensure that those who find themselves married without their consent are able to apply for the annulment of such unions. The campaign has been a great success. To date we have managed to assist 1 977 people to annul their fraudulent marriages, whereas a total of 18 109 people have come forward to register their customary marriages.

Last week, at the presentation of the Budget Vote to the National Assembly, I made a further call, particularly on elderly people to be assisted to register their marriages, or at least check their status, because we have realised that upon their death their certificates consistently reflect that they were never married. This in turn causes a lot of distress for their families.

We have decided to take this campaign further to cover all aspects of verification of status and other data in the national population register. On 7 April, during the imbizo focus week of government in Makhado, we launched a national campaign of “Lokisa ditokomane”, or “Lungisa amaphepha” [Get your documents in order], calling on South Africans who have corrections to make to their documents regarding surnames, names, dates of birth, marital status and so on to do so.

This is because we have received a number of complaints from the public, in which a number of South Africans claim they have been declared dead, and yet they are still alive. They have suffered humiliation due to other incorrect reflections of their particulars. For a period of three months the department will have dedicated counters to which all people who need this assistance can come and receive relief free of charge. We are, however, aware that there are certain individuals who might want to take advantage of this campaign, and abuse the opportunity for self-serving purposes. We will be on the lookout for such cases in order to ensure that only genuine errors are corrected.

Thirdly, we said we would endeavour to restore the dignity of our people, and provide all South Africans with a common identity and citizenship. Our commitment to ensure that all South Africans are accorded their dignity and place as citizens of this country through the acquisition of the relevant documents is unwavering.

In this way, we will be living up to the undertaking we made through the Freedom Charter that South Africa belongs to all who live in it, united in our diversity. We are indeed happy that we are playing some part in the realisation of this ideal, to such an extent that we have moved to intervene in cases where people are still experiencing problems with their registrations due to systems put in place by the previous government. Some of these systems have now been repealed or replaced.

We have been encouraged and humbled by the sense of hope and gratitude we have seen in the eyes of the elderly who have never had an ID in their lives, but who can receive their old age grant today for the first time. Our hearts have been warmed by the sight of children who now enjoy a better quality of life because they are recognised and duly registered as South Africans. It is our feeling that all South Africans need to be able to acquire their enabling documents in a manner that is efficient and without unnecessary time delays. We have decided that during this financial year we shall cut down on the waiting period it currently takes to issue an identity document from six weeks to four weeks. [Applause.]

In order to determine the real extent of the need for civic services among our people, we said we would commission research in this regard. Last year we commissioned the Human Sciences Research Council to conduct this civic services survey with a view to assisting us to understand some of the necessary interventions we might need to make in improving our services to citizens, particularly in the rural areas. We will receive the final report of this survey at the end of June, and it will assist us to plan more efficiently for the execution of our civic services mandate.

Certain policy pronouncements will follow the release of the report of the survey, including whether we should continue to have late registration in this country, as well as steps we need to take to deal with those South Africans who are still continuing to use their old reference books – dompas if you like - and blue pass books.

We also undertook to improve the capacity of our organisation to create improved levels of service delivery. The dire limitations with regard to leadership in the department have been resolved. Since the last time we met here, we have moved to overhaul a management structure that was packed with people in an acting capacity - from deputy directors-general to assistant directors. We have now appointed 54 senior managers at head office, including a full component of five deputy directors-general to head five new branches. [Applause.] In this regard, we are also going to look at enhancing our capacity at all our local offices by reviewing our civic services establishment.

We need to ensure that we have leadership and operational level capacity that are adequate in order for us to do this work. This work will be in addition to the 898 new posts that will be funded in this financial year to create capacity at lower levels. The review of the establishment of civic services will also include the matter of grading our posts at district and local offices to ensure that we have the proper calibre of and quality officials at the front line level.

Our plan for enhancing the leadership capacity in our provinces will also include the review of our business processes and standard operating procedures, allowing more decentralisation of decision-making processes. We should also report that our programme to computerise offices has registered significant achievements. And 70% of the sites that needed computerisation have already been covered, with the exception of those offices where accommodation was not adequate or where there were security concerns.

We offered to tackle the problem of corruption head on. As Minister in the Department of Home Affairs, I attach as much seriousness to the issue of improving service delivery as I do to our fight against graft and corruption. Corruption in the Department of Home Affairs needs to be tackled head on. During the past 12 months we have moved to enhance our capacity to address this problem by creating a chief directorate within the department. We have had several successes through our partnerships with other law enforcement agencies in this regard. We are not fully satisfied with our progress, but we are sure that we have both the commitment and the capacity to deal with this problem directly. The strength of the department lies in the fact that we are talking about it, because we do want to find a solution to the problem.

As promised, we have moved to transform and reorganise our immigration services. The new national immigration branch of the department was launched in April. As part of this launch, we committed ourselves to continue implementing a programme that will ensure that our immigration service is professionalised and positioned to address both our domestic and international obligations in this area of work.

When hon members travel and come back into the country, they will be happy to note that we now even have designated counters which are marked “African passport holders”, like they have elsewhere in Europe, where they display “EU countries only”. You will now have, at our own airports, counters which are designated to be of service only people from African countries. [Applause.] For us, it is a big and significant step to take, because it restores the dignity of the African people on the continent.

We are starting the important work of improving the state of our ports of entry. The work of improving the services that government provides at the ports of entry has started in earnest through the establishment of the Border Control Operational Co-ordinating Committee, BCOCC, under the convenorship of our department. Among its tasks, BCOCC is to look at infrastructure development and changing the appalling conditions and state of our border posts. The Department of Home Affairs will finalise the appointment of port managers for these ports of entry.

As part of ensuring more humane treatment of people at the ports of entry, particularly those from the African continent, as I have already indicated, we have these counters that are dedicated to African passport holders. The immigration regulations have now been finalised, as promised last year. I am happy to report that South Africa will no longer use interim regulations in its management of immigration in the country.

After the passing of the Immigration Amendment Act last year, we have engaged in an extensive consultation process for the finalisation of the regulations that will be used in the implementation of the Act. The new immigration regulations have now been finalised and will come into effect on 1 July this year. We are grateful for the support that this House and Parliament as a whole have given us during the time of amendment of the Act.

In line with our international obligations, we have also moved to reorganise our refugee affairs section with a view to creating more capacity in the medium term. These interventions will include the need to eliminate the current backlog of status determination and to process those cases that are outstanding. The backlog project is currently under way, and I am sure it will bring a lot of relief to the many asylum seekers who await protection.

We are finding solutions to managing our deportation activities with more respect regarding a human rights culture. We decided last year that given the many perceptions held about the Lindela Repatriation Centre, both at home and internationally, it was time for the centre to be opened to public scrutiny and for everybody, including the media and independent organisations, to have access to the centre. Since then, we have addressed a number of problems that have been reported to us about the centre and its work has been demystified.

During the past financial year we moved swiftly to install IT capacity at the centre to ensure real-time verification of fingerprints at the centre so that the identities of South African citizens and any other legal persons who are mistakenly taken to the centre are verified and released as soon as possible.

As we celebrate Africa Day today, we need to report that we take our international obligations seriously, particularly with regard to the continent. During this financial year, we will continue to assist the Democratic Republic of the Congo with its establishment of a national population register, as well as an identification system for the country, as part of their preparations to hold their democratic elections. In this regard, we met the Minister of Interior in the DRC for further discussions in order to put in place detailed plans for the execution of this obligation. We are encouraged by the overall commitment of both parties to make this work successful.

In our quest to encourage easy but legally regulated human movement between our neighbours and ourselves, we have started several bilateral engagements with most SADC countries concerning visa agreements. We have, in this regard, finalised such an agreement with Mozambique. We will, during this financial year, consolidate the current engagements that we have with the rest of the neighbouring states.

Lastly, we have made realistic allocations to key projects, having considered our capacity to implement. We have allocated a sum of R71 million for the upgrading and construction of office accommodation, as we intend to roll out our offices to those areas that continue to struggle in their attempts to access our offices. We have also made an additional request for R91 million to be allocated to public works from our current savings in order to finance 63 new rentals over the three-year period. This will allow us to relocate some of our worst offices to better accommodation.

As in all other financial years, a big percentage of our current R2,9 billion budget will go to transfers that must be made to organisations that constitute our auxiliary services. Due to its commitments, with regard to the upcoming local government elections, the IEC will receive a transfer of R884 million from this budget, and the Film and Publication Board will receive R6,7 million. We need to create the necessary capacity within the Film and Publication Board to fight the scourge of child pornography. To this end, we are preparing to host the national conference against child pornography during this coming week.

We shall also continue to implement outstanding work regarding the Home Affairs National Identification System. The introduction of the smart card, which is the outstanding component of Hanis, was approved by Cabinet in 2001, as you all know, pending the finalisation of the procurement model. We are now in the final stages for Cabinet’s approval of such a procurement model. In this regard, we will report to you on the progress, hon members.

A lot of work has gone into achieving the targets we have set for ourselves in the past 12 months and for this I would like to extend my gratitude to the management and staff of my department, under the leadership of the director-general, for the indulgence of the select committee and its chairperson, Comrade Joyce Masilo, and for the co-operation we received from all our stakeholders.

As we said last year, we believe that the success of our work should be judged, not on the number of promises we make but on its ability to touch the lives of ordinary South Africans out there. This is a yardstick we have chosen for our work, and we call on you to measure our success, or lack thereof, on this basis. It will not be easy, but we are confident that it is possible. Let us all move forward to transform our country and improve the lives of millions of South Africans. Thank you. [Applause.]

Moh J MASILO: Modulasetulo yo o tlotlegang, Tona, badirammogo, Mokaedi- Kakaretso le balaodibagolo, mmangwana o tshwara thipa ka fa bogaleng. Mme Mapisa-Nqakula, lefapha la gago le dira ka natla go tokafatsa matshelo a batho botlhe ba Aforika Borwa; segolo thata tshireletso ya bomme le basetsana, segolo bao ba tlhokileng tšhono ya go bona dithuto kgotsa go buisa le go kwala. Batlhalefi ba ba tswang mafatsheng a a kwa ntle ga Aforika Borwa ba ikhumisa ka rona ka manyalo a a sa nepagalang sentle kgotsa a tsietso. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Mrs J MASILO: Hon Chairperson, Minister, colleagues, the director-general and senior managers, a true leader always puts the interest of the group first. Ms Mapisa-Nqakula, your department is working very hard to improve the lives of all South African people, especially with regard to the safety of women and girls who did not have the opportunity to learn to read and write. Foreign fraudsters who live in South Africa enrich themselves by means of unlawful marriage.]

Home Affairs is one of those departments on which the whole country relies to perform an efficient and effective service delivery function. Its proper functioning ensures that we are safe, since it shares the responsibility of border control and management with the Department of Defence, the SAPS and Sars. They also issue documents from the cradle to the grave. If you have given birth, your child needs to be registered. If you get married, you have to register that too. If you die it also has to be recorded. Home Affairs, needless to say, is responsible for the issuing of all these vital documents, including your travel documentation.

Other departments are also closely linked to this department by virtue of the identity documents issued by the Department of Home Affairs, allowing all citizens to access any of the many government services, such as social security grants and housing subsidies. Even foreigners who wish to enter our country for study, business, medical procedures, as visitors or to become permanent or temporary residents, must have interaction with this department.

Those who seek political refuge from their government can apply for asylum or other kinds of protection from our country, and this department facilitates this process. Therefore, it is imperative that this department has an appropriate budget to ensure that it extends its efficient service to everyone, even those in the remotest areas of our country.

This department, by its own admission, acknowledged that it did not function to its fullest potential in virtually all the areas mentioned above. This meant that our citizens got the raw end of the deal with long queues for ID applications, fraudulent marriages, inadequate infrastructure to house the services provided and limited mobile units to serve the remote areas of our country. The list is quite long if one should quantify all the inadequacies emanating from this department.

An intensive analysis of their inadequacies was embarked upon, and an intensive campaign to turn around the situation was launched under the Minister’s leadership. When we were first presented with this strategy, our initial thought was that it was very ambitious. However, we have been very impressed with the identification of all these areas of need and the systematic way in which it was endeavoured to alleviate the problems in the many critical areas. The 2004-05 up to 2006-07 strategic plans identify 10 critical intervention areas, and each of these areas has been given target dates for achievement. Our concerns relate to all areas of control, from a financial management perspective to the appointment of key managers and the provision of adequate IT services to systemise the whole function of Home Affairs. The new strategic plan 2005-10 revises the sum of the targets and outlines some of the successes that the department has already achieved.

As mentioned before, service delivery was critically at a loss, to the extent that some of the employees of Home Affairs were involved in syndicates issuing fraudulent documents. Embarking on the Check your Status campaign was just one of the attempts to stop corruption. The whole country was drawn into this campaign, and many fraudulent marriages were uncovered.

In addition, the Immigration Act was amended so that those foreign nationals wishing to obtain permanent residence and wanting to use marriage to a South African to obtain that status must now wait for five years of marriage before their permanent status will be approved. During such marriage they will be visited by officials from the department who will verify the validity of the marriage. [Interjections.] Amendments to the Marriage Act are also envisaged to reinforce the five-year waiting period. The select committee welcomes this initiative by the department.

Improved service delivery is needed regarding immigration; that means effective border control, effective law enforcement and the ability of the department effectively to enforce legislation that is interlinked with the department’s ability effectively to manage refugee services.

We were also concerned that the levels of staff at the deputy director general level had an extraordinarily high vacancy rate. We welcome the appointment of five branches at the deputy director general level. We want to see the trend of filling vacant posts continuing in critical service delivery areas. We also welcome these appointments as a major step forward in the transformation of the department and in an effort to improve its image. It also signifies significant progress in the delivery of quality services to the people of this country.

On our own oversight visit to North West and Gauteng district offices, we identified some of the challenges that the department still has to overcome.

It was not a mistake to send out pilot mobile units to the Eastern Cape province. Due to poor infrastructure and roads 67 mobile units have been rolled out. It represents the Department of Home Affairs’ commitment to improving the lives of our people. Well done. We know that this is a long- awaited service, however even this number is a mere drop in the ocean.

We are very happy that the budget for Home Affairs has increased; especially the 23,35% increase allocated for delivery of service; and the budget for auxiliary and associated service programmes increased by 57,71% compared to the 2004-05 budget. The budget showed an overall increase of 23,3%. We hope that the department will have all their financial accounting structures in place so that whatever they spend on the improvement of services will be accompanied with the appropriate reconciliation statements for verification purposes so as to comply with the Public Finance Management Act and the relevant Treasury regulations.

In the previous financial year, this department underspent by only 16% and the select committee expressed its concern at the delay of late payments to service providers, even though the percentage is relatively low. We know how costly restructuring is, but it still needs to take place within the department. Therefore, every cent must be spent in each financial year, with no roll-overs.

We also welcome the increase in the internship programme from 250 to 500 people for this financial year. Young people do not necessarily think about Home Affairs as a career choice. These internships will help them to get a better idea of what Home Affairs is all about and how they can contribute to nation-building.

Let us be guided by the principles of the Freedom Charter, which is the vision of our masses from time to time. We need to reflect on this historic Congress of the People held 50 years ago. We must not fail our people. The Freedom Charter is the foundation on which we base our programmes of action to transform our country economically and socially: “The country belongs to all who live in it” and “The people shall govern”.

In conclusion, thanks goes to the Minister, Deputy Minister, former Director-General, Mr Barry Gilder, new Director-General of the department, Mr Jeff Maqetuka, and to senior officials for the support they gave to the select committee members all the time, not forgetting dedicated hon members of the select committee who worked without failure. Well done, members, keep up serving the nation at work. The select committee welcomes this Budget Vote and supports it. Ke a leboga. [Legofi.] [Thank you. [Applause.]]

Mr O M THETJENG: Thank you, Chairperson, hon Minister, colleagues and other guests. I want to start off by thanking the Minister for making it possible for offices of the department to open on Saturdays to assist our fathers and mothers out there in the communities.

I also want to take this opportunity to thank the Chief Whip of the Council for his efforts to ensure that speakers are given the opportunity to relay their opinions. Some presiding officers raised the same concerns and need to be commended for their efforts and I hope that I will be fairly protected.

This country has traversed dangerous escarpments in search of tranquillity. Highly fortified resistance existed but it soon broke down as it was based on a falsehood. The masters fell from grace like a slaughtered bull ready to be cooked and devoured and today are no more.

Incidents like the one quoted in the Minister’s speech delivered on 18 May 2005 in the National Assembly of a certain Ms Cecilia Flink is but one of the many cases that occur unnoticed in this country.

Problems within the department can to some extent be blamed on the previous regime that failed to register all South Africans as citizens. But, we cannot continue to blame the past when the resources are at the disposal of this ANC-controlled government. We need to get down to the business of correcting and doing the right things.

The budget for this financial year is slightly higher since some of the money will be transferred to the Independent Electoral Commission for the forthcoming local government elections. This means that there is likely to be a decrease in the budget allocation in the following financial years. This department is, as put in the Strategic Plan 2004-05 to 2006-07, “central to government’s service delivery agenda, to national security and to prevention and combating of crime”. But a number of issues are contrary to this valuable statement. If the statement above is compromised, then it goes without question that the poor, the elderly and orphaned children will not be able to access valuable services from government, as is already happening in some instances.

It is very common to find that personal details are incorrect when one applies for a new identity document. What are the causes of these types of glaring errors? How many of such errors are contained in our population register? On 07 April 2005, the Minister launched the “Lokisa Ditokomane” campaign, which was meant to assist those who have faulty IDs.

It was a very good campaign that was launched. Yes, those who are literate will easily manage to have them corrected, but the big question is how the rural poor and illiterate are to be assisted in this regard? Has the department conducted information campaigns to reach the deep rural folks who are normally isolated from the mainstream government service?

Bear in mind that some do not know when were they born but can only relate to a well-known incident to assist with determining their date of birth. It’s a fact and we’re asking: “How then are we going to assist them?”

Incidents of inaccurate information about our own citizens happen almost on a continuous basis and one wonders when this will ever come to an end. A schoolteacher from Dennilton, as reported in the website of the department, Ms Eva Moremi, struggled to be paid for three months because she had been declared dead. The question is: Who submitted a form declaring her dead? She was then required to make an affidavit confirming that she was still alive. She is one of the few lucky individuals to have had her status restored.

The department has been rocked by a number of incidents that compromise the security of our country. Recently in the Eastern Cape, some individuals, including a medical doctor, are alleged to have been found with fraudulent IDs. One wonders how many officials are involved in such scams and many more.

Maybe the Department of Labour needs to review the related labour laws to make it easier to expel those who have been found committing fraud, and fired without having to go through the onerous process required by this monstrous legislation.

One official who was caught red-handed, in the act, by means of security cameras is still suspended with full pay. Such people are not required in the system of government because they compromise the security of this country.

This needs to be looked at by the Minister because we cannot allow people to compromise this country’s security. Foreign nationals easily access our IDs to obtain South African citizenship without going through the correct procedures, and one wonders how many such people we already have in our system.

I hope irregular marriages are being weeded out of the system because many of our sisters have been victims of fraud, though there are those who deliberately got involved because they wanted to give some of the corrupt foreigners citizenry of this country. One cannot have sympathy for such elements. As the Minister has just said, I hope that has been attended to.

Some offices in some parts of this country fail to practice the principles of Batho Pele. During lunchtime and teatimes offices are literally locked and clients are told to wait until lunch or teatime is over. Maybe officials need to be helped to understand that the principle of Batho Pele does not necessarily deny them the opportunity to take their lunch or teatimes.

Officers need to alternate in taking their lunch so that at any given time clients are assisted instead of waiting for long periods of time. But, Minister, I want to congratulate the manager Ms Mohlatlego Manthata, together with her staff, in a satellite office found in Senwabarwana, somewhere in Bochum, as it was called before for efficiency in assisting the clients that visit that office. I am of the opinion that she deserves from her supervisor or manager to be favourably assessed on her performances to earn performance-related bonuses, because we need people like her to perform these functions in this government. She is on top of the principles of Batho Pele and this must be commended. I visit that office regularly during my constituency period and am impressed with their output. [Laughter.]

The same can be said about an officer in the Social Development office, Ms Nakedi Molele, who deserves the same accolades because she understands how to render a service to clients who visit her office. This office is critically understaffed and yet those entrusted with its management and administration are doing the best they could. The same cannot be said about some of the other offices, because they do not do what they are supposed to be doing.

We have heard that this department is understaffed. What is the situation as we speak now? Is there an improvement because we want our mothers, sisters, brothers, mothers, fathers and friends to receive a service on time by this particular department?

The other entity that is actually funded by this department is the government printing works. The government printing works has had an adverse report from the office of the Auditor-General for four years in a row. The Auditor-General has also now presented a “disclaimer report”. This means that he cannot express an opinion on the financial statements presented to him. Something is really fishy about this entity.

The question that I want to put to the Minister is whether there is any intention to put this entity in private hands since it is not in a position to account for the finances allocated to it? I will appreciate a response from the Minister if possible. The present report from the Auditor-General foretells a bleak future for this entity.

The security of the department’s finances is compromised, as reported, in the Auditor-General’s report. Many officials had access to the security password and this means that individuals could easily transfer funds fraudulently to individuals or institutions that never performed any service to the department. Anything is possible with this department since they are a few officials, who are corrupt to the bone and need to be dealt with as swiftly as possible. One would appreciate hearing from the Minister if this has been attended to.

We heard bone-crushing stories about the Lindela Detention Centre. The Minister has indicated at some point that this centre has been opened to the public to ensure that other role-players have access to this human- humiliating centre. The Auditor-General’s report indicates that controls are very poor at this centre. Record maintenance of suspected and or illegal foreigners is very poor or nonexistent. The centre lacks capacity. Immigration officials do not have access to the department’s population register. That is why many South Africans have been deported.

Yes, many South Africans that are too black - pitch black, like me - have been wrongfully arrested and deported because they do not deserve to be South Africans. This could lead to legal litigation for the Minister in her capacity as head of the Ministry and department. When will this type of humiliation end? It is my belief and hope that this situation will be attended to as a matter of urgency.

We commend the introduction of fully equipped vehicles to service outlying areas of our country. It is my belief that these vehicles will be efficiently utilised. There are offices in various Makgosi that can also be used optimally. Makgosi’s offices can also be used here. For example, the hon Kgoshi Mokoena has an office that could be used in rendering a service our clients. In some parts of this country they are being utilised.

The budget allocation to this department should be utilised to address many of the issues highlighted and many more that I cannot manage to deal with today. I thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr F ADAMS: Hon Chairperson, Minister, colleagues, I just want to say to hon member Thetjeng that considering the way he speaks it is not surprising that he is arrested because people think he is a foreigner; the way he speaks badly about South Africa. It reminds me of the way in which the DA criticises our country overseas. One would think that they were not from South Africa, and didn’t live in South Africa. So yes, I wouldn’t blame officials that arrested hon Thetjeng, because to them he speaks a foreign language, just as he spoke in this House.

When democracy finally dawned in South Africa in 1994, the hopes and expectations of newly enfranchised citizens were sky high. Looking back today along the long and arduous road we have travelled, as the people of South Africa, we can testify to moments in our pilgrimage when our faith has been severely tested, and it is daily tested by the DA.

Change, almost by definition, meant a radical improvement in the real-life conditions of ordinary people, of which Mr Krumbock is no part. The fervent wish of ordinary citizens that a better life for all were around the corner seemed tantalisingly realistic. The change to the political system also brought hope from another quarter.

As many can attest, today government delivery has been more difficult, unequal and often slower than expected. Achieving the promised land is by no means plain sailing. But, happily and indeed, there are great Ministers, Deputy Ministers and officials that are daily launching and maintaining innovative, effective measures to better the lives of South Africans, who are not just complaining and breaking everything down and lamenting, but who really do certain things to better the life of South Africa.

I think that the hon Thetjeng only visited one or two of Home Affairs offices. In my constituency, Wynberg in Cape Town - I can correctly say – in Mitchells Plain and at Nyanga, Home Affairs has really changed and turned around.

We are sorry, Mr Krumbock, to say that yes, there is really a Minister and a Deputy Minister that are now working at Home Affairs. I think when something works, the DA can’t understand why it is working because there is nothing of the DA that works. That is why 70% of South Africans have said: Let’s get away from these complaining …

“… soos hulle sê in Afrikaans: ‘natbroekmense’”. [… as they say in Afrikaans: ‘natbroekmense’ [moaners].

But let us rather vote for a government; let us put a government in there that can really work, that can really look after our people and understand the needs, hon Loe, of our people. [Interjections.]

Home Affairs is one of those government departments that plays a pivotal role in our systems of government in South Africa. I want to thank the Minister and her officials in this department that a lot of South African lives can rely on the department. Thank you for the sterling work. The NNP supports the Budget Vote.

I also want to ask the hon Thetjeng to go home tonight and really study the speech of the Minister. If you can’t read, hon member, we will get Kgoshi Mokoena to give you reading classes. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr B J TOLO: Chairperson, hon Minister, the director general, other officials and hon members, this year we are celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Freedom Charter, a living document that enshrines the aspirations of the people of this country. Deviation from that document will be tantamount to selling the spirit of those who paid with their lives for it to be realised. It is for that reason that to this day the Freedom Charter serves as the compass that directs the ANC government in our struggle to better the lives of our people.

As we debate the Budget Vote of the Department of Home Affairs we can vividly hear the voices of the founding fathers and mothers of the Freedom Charter in Kliptown echoing across the decades, saying: “There shall be houses, security and comfort. There shall be work and security”. As we debate the Budget Vote we must also bear in mind that the apartheid regime not only relied on brute force to suppress and subjugate our people, but it also relied heavily on an administrative machinery. Home Affairs was at the centre of this machinery to dehumanise the majority of the people of this country.

The task of our democratic government is, therefore, fundamentally to transform the Home Affairs department from being a symbol of humiliation and suffering to a department that is the nerve centre of government, to be in a position to deliver a better life to all the people of our country. To be able to access many government services as a citizen, one must first interact with the Department of Home Affairs. The ID document and many other types of documents are keys to unlocking services provided by both government and the private sector.

Therefore, the department has to be a well-oiled machinery if it must live up to its expectations. If this department is not resourced such that it functions optimally, a better life will remain a mirage for our people. We believe that the department’s turnaround strategy adopted in 2003 is just what the doctor ordered for the department to deliver in a manner consistent with the overall plan of government to deliver quality services to our people.

In our interaction with the department, the director-general said: We need to strengthen our ability to execute and to measure our levels of success on the impact of our plans instead of our ability to merely develop such plans.

We cannot agree more with this statement. The acid test for any plan is in its implementation. As a committee we are looking with keen interest at the way your turnaround strategy is unfolding and as committee members consider ourselves as allies of and even as a resource to the department in the implementation of that strategy.

In our interaction with the communities and your regional offices we do come across some of challenges which we have no doubt you will address as a department. Of course the Minister, in a speech here today, has already elaborated much on how they are actually solving some of these problems. However, we have to highlight them in this debate for the sake of emphasis.

Early this year we visited your offices in Mabopane and Garankuwa. Both these offices are inaccessible to physically challenged people as they are both situated on the upper floors of the buildings in which they are housed, the Ga-Rankuwa one especially as it has not lift. In both offices there is a serious shortage of both staff and resources like computers. In some instances two or more staff members share a single computer.

It is our view that such an environment is not conducive to the optimal functioning of officials, but we must indicate that when we interrogated the budget of the department we saw that there is money that has been put aside for IT and we hope that this problem will be eliminated.

There is also a feeling that there is too much centralisation of certain minor functions at headquarters in Pretoria. For instance, if an ablution system is blocked in a far-flung area this needs to be reported to headquarters and it is headquarters that has to give a go-ahead whether that ablution block can be repaired or not. We believe that regions need some degree of self-sufficiency so that they can be in a position to deal with some of the issues themselves, without having to refer to headquarters. Yes, we agree that major operations have to be attended to by headquarters.

As the Minister has already indicated, corruption seems to be a festering sore in the department. We believe that the majority of public servants in the Department of Home Affairs are honest citizens who want to see to it that government succeeds. However, there is in our view a tiny minority who are hellbent on continuing with corrupt activities to undermine the good work that others are engaged in. These people must be hunted down and if they are caught they must face the wrath of the law.

Some members of the public are also guilty of these unbecoming activities. In our interaction with some officials we heard stories to the effect that some pastors are selling baptismal certificates to people who are not deserving. Some principals are also appending school stamps to documents for people who are not South Africans so that they can be in a position to acquire South African documentation. We condemn, in no uncertain terms, these individuals who are entrusted with high positions in society and misuse these positions to sabotage our young democracy.

We are looking forward to the day when all South Africans have the smart ID card. The Minister has already indicated this. We were assured by the department that these cards are not easily forged. We urge the department to fast-track this process so that we can reduce the forging of our IDs in a meaningful way. During the elections last year government, through this department, decided to issue IDs free of charge in view of the fact that many people can’t afford even the minimal charges.

We commend government to be so sensitive as to enable our people to exercise their inalienable right – the right to vote. We know that the same sensitivity is and will be displayed during the coming local government elections. In the same vein, Chair, we must state that there is still the challenge of ID collection. There are stacks and stacks of IDs in regional offices that remain uncollected. We call upon our people who have applied for IDs to go out there and collect those IDs.

South Africa is relatively better developed economically compared to other African countries. It therefore has a strong pool factor compared to other countries in the region. As a result many people tend to want to come to South Africa, legally or illegally. It is for that reason that in 2002 Parliament passed the Immigration Bill, which enables the department to regulate immigration and emigration. That law introduced immigration inspectors to deal with the problem.

We viewed with interest - although we were not invited - the other day when the department was unveiling this directorate in their new uniforms at the Cape Town Convention Centre, their beautiful uniforms, which distinguish them from other law-enforcement agencies. We appreciate this very much. But we believe that the department will, in this financial year, be able to appoint more immigration officers so that they can be in a position to be equal to their tasks, as we were told that there is a shortage of such officers out there in the offices.

A concern that we have is that according to audit reports this department has been getting qualified audits since the year 2000-01 financial year to the 2003-04 financial year. Over and above that there has been an underspending for the past three years. This is not consistent with the PFMA and we hope that the turnaround strategy will also address this problem. We are aware that the department has a new all-round leadership and we hope that, as new brooms, they will sweep clean.

In conclusion, we must state that, as the ANC and the committee, we unequivocally support the Ministry and the department. We have no doubt that the department and Ministry will discharge their functions with distinction. I thank you. [Applause.]

Nkk J N VILAKAZI: Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe woMnyango, malungu onke ahloniphekile oMkhandlu kazwelonke oshaya imithetho, kuhle ukukhuluma ngento oyaziyo. Ikomidi engikulo elifaka nalo Mnyango wezaseKhaya like lathi ukuhambahamba libuka amahhovisi alo Mnyango ukuzibonela indlela oqhutshwa ngayo umsebenzi.

Empeleni sonke siyazi ukuthi kunezikhalo eziningi ngalo Mnyango phakathi kwazo okukhona lezi: imigqa emide ekhalisa umphakathi nezisebenzi ezincane ukwenza lo msebenzi. Useshilo uzakwethu usihlalo wethu uMnu Tolo. Ezinye ukulindwa kwamapasi nezinye izincwadi ezibalulekile njengoba sebeshilo ozakwethu abaningi, asebekhulume ngaphambi kwami, kanye nalezi zincwadi ezikhishwa yilo Mnyango nokunye nokunye. Yizikhalo lezo eziningi eziqhamukayo. Siyethemba mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe ukuthi isabelo sakho sanele ukuhlinzekela ukulungiswa kwazo zonke lezi zinkinga esengizibalile kanye nezinye.

Ekuhambeni kwethu sathola ukuthi imigqa emide yenziwa ukungeneli kwabasebenzayo, ukwesweleka kwamakhompyutha okwenza umsebenzi ube lula kanti umsebenzi omningi kangaka wenziwa ngezandla. Lokhu kukodwa nje kukhomba isidingo esikhulu sokuqashwa kwabantu abazokwenza lo msebenzi, kuphinde futhi kuthengwe amakhompyutha amaningi ukusheshisa umsebenzi odondayo, kuphinde kufundiswe izisebenzi ukwenza lo msebenzi ube yimpumelelo. Imali edingeka lapha inkulu kwazise phela amahhovisi ezaseKhaya ayakhelwe amadolobha kuphela. Uhulumeni wobandlululo wawungagqizi qakala ngabantu ababehlala emakhaya nasezabelweni yingakho kunzima kangaka ukulungisa isimo kulo Mnyango.

Ukulinda amapasi nezinye izincwadi ezibalulekile emphakathini kuba undendende. Ipasi kuphela unyaka owodwa noma emibili ulindile, usuke unenhlanhla uma kube yizinyanga. Uma lifika, usuke unenhlanhla uma kungekho okubhedayo kulo. Mhlawumbe igama noma isibongo sisuke sibheda noma unyaka kumbe omunye nje unyaka ongawazi uqhamuke usubhalwe phansi. Ukulungisa lesi simo utshelwa ukuthi yiPitoli kuphela elizolungisa bese uphinda futhi ulindele incwadi efakaza ukubhaleka kabi kwamagama. Mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe, kunesidingo sokuthi eMinyangweni yakho eseduze nabantu kube khona usizo lokulungisa noma ukufakaza iphutha elisuke lenzekile. Umphakathi uyahlukumezeka kakhulu yilesi simo, useke washo usihlalo wami lapha, uMnu Tolo noma yena ebekhulum ngolimi lokuwela mina ngikhuluma ngelami engalincela ebeleni.

Angithokoze mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe ukuthi ukhona umehluko engiwubonile emahhovisi aseduze nami. Izitulo, amabhentshi abemasha ceke, abantu behlezi phansi. Kuhle! Kodwa bona olayini akukakashintshi lutho. Siyethemba ukuthi isabelomali soMnyango wakho sizoqhubeka ukwenza ngcono lesi simo. Siyothokoza kakhulu.

Abantu abaphilayo okuthiwa sebafa nabo bayahlukumezeka ukulinda ukulungiswa kwephutha. Sike sambona umhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe ezisukumele elungisa amaphutha alo Mnyango. Sengathi kungaba khona indlela esheshayo ukulungisa izimo ezinjena.

Abashadile bebe bengazi, kuningi ukuhlukumezeka abahlangabezana nakho, kulindwe iPitoli ukulungisa kodwa ibe ikhona imiNyango ingenawo amandla olkulungisa la maphutha yize ubufakazi bukhona. Ushilo uzakwethu wathi.

Imisebenzi ilawulwa esizindeni esisodwa. Kudingeka amandla abiwe nakwezinye izindawo ukuze kwehle isisindo somsebenzi othwelwe eMnyangweni wakho.

Okokugcina, kuyobe sekuyalunga uma abasebenza kulo Mnyango sebekwazi ukukhuluma kahle nomphakathi abawusebenzelayo. Okwamanje akukalungi, mhlawumbe kwenziwa ukushoda kwezisebenzi.

Egameni le-IFP siyawamukela lo mbiko wesabelomali esethulwa umhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe. Ngibonge kakhulu kuMnyango wakho Ngqongqoshe, osebenza kanzima usilungiselela ngapha nangapha. Ngiyabonga kakhulu. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.) [Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members of the National Assembly, it is good to talk about something you understand. The committee on which I serve has visited the Department of Home Affairs offices’ to see how things are done.

We are all aware that there are many complaints about this department. The following are some of them: The long queues that are a concern to the public and the shortage of staff to do the work. The chairperson, Mr Tolo, has indicated this already. Other problems include a long waiting period for identity documents and other important documents, as indicated by my colleagues who have spoken before me. These are some of the complaints. Hon Minister, I hope the budget is adequate to address these problems I have mentioned.

During our visits we established that these long queues are caused by staff and computer shortages. As most of the work is done manually, computers would make the work easy. This alone shows the need to employ workers to do the work, to buy computers to speed up the work and to train staff so that this work becomes a success. More money is needed because Home Affairs offices were built in towns only. The apartheid government never bothered about the rural people and that is the reason it is difficult to rectify the situation in this department.

It takes a long time to get important documents. It takes one to two years to get an identity document and if you are lucky it takes a few months. When it comes, you would be lucky if nothing is wrong in it. Sometimes your name, your surname and your date of birth are wrong. When you want to correct this you are told that this can only be done in Pretoria and you have to wait for the form confirming the incorrectly written names. Hon Minister, there must be a mechanism at offices nearer to people to correct these mistakes. This situation affects the public, as the chairman Mr Tolo said in English, but I am saying this in my indigenous language.

I am not happy, hon Minister, that there is a difference in the offices nearer to the place where I live. The chairs and benches are new and people are sitting down. That is great! However, the queues remain the same. We hope the budget for your department would make the situation better. We would indeed be pleased.

People who are still alive, but have been classified as dead are affected while they wait for the rectification of this mistake. We have seen the hon Minister trying to address these problems. We would appreciate the introduction of a mechanism to address situations like these.

There are people who are married without their knowledge. They encounter many problems while they wait for Pretoria to correct this mistake, whilst there are offices without the power to correct those mistakes in the face of evidence. My colleague has said so.

There is too much centralisation of services. We need decentralisation, just to ease some of the pressure that is being experienced in your department.

Lastly, things would be better if employees of this department dealt with the public they serve in a better manner. So far things are not good; maybe this is due to the staff shortage.

The IFP supports this budget tabled by the hon Minister. Thank you very much, Minister, that your hard-working department is making things possible. Thank you very much. [Applause.]]

Mrs A N D QIKANI: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, officials from the department, Home Affairs is a critical junction between a citizen and her or his ability to access social and economic services. The Department of Home Affairs, firstly, records the arrival of a new citizen through birth or immigration; secondly, provides them with proof of identity; thirdly, recognises marriages; and fourthly, eventually records the end of every person’s citizenship through death or emigration. In this fashion the department’s work directly affects the life of every citizen.

The budget is, therefore, incredibly important to the social and economic life of the country. Where the department fails, the consequences for citizens are incredibly disruptive. Therefore, the continuing existence of mismanagement and corruption involving the officials of the department cannot be tolerated. This undermines the intentions of this Parliament whenever we consider and approve the budget for this department.

Mphathiswa, masikubulele kakhulu ngokuba uthe wahambela iphondo laseMpuma Koloni, kuba lelona phondo ndicinga ukuba lihlupheke kakhulu, nangokuba uthe wasinika ezi ofisi zingoomahamba-nandlwana. Loo nto itsho yazise kakuhle into yokuba nawuphi na umntu, noselalini, naye uza kuxhamla kweli phulo uthe waliphehlelela. Siyabulela kakhulu.

Mphathiswa, kwakhona masikubulele kuba kwisebe lakho abantu abasakwazi ukuhlala kakhulu xa belinde iziqinisekiso zokufa nezokuzalwa kuba bazifumana kwangaloo mini. Liphulo elihle ke elo. Siyabulela. Lilonke I-UDM iyaluxhasa olu hlahlo lwabiwo-mali. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Hon Minister, we would like to thank you for paying our province, the Eastern Cape, a visit and for providing us with mobile offices, because I believe it is the most impoverished province. That should ensure that everybody, including those living in the rural areas, benefits from this initiative. We appreciate that.

Hon Minister, we would also like to commend you and your staff at the Department of Home Affairs for a job well done because people no longer have to wait for long periods for documents such as death and birth certificates as they now get them on the same day. This is a good campaign. We are grateful indeed. The UDM supports this Budget Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]]

Rev E ADOLPH: Hon Chairperson, the ID wants to recognise and acknowledge the national Minister and her department’s endeavours to streamline our service delivery to the people who needed it most. The intervention through acquiring new additional offices, upgrading existing office space and, of course, increasing the staff complement should be complimented. That is a lot of improvement. We also welcome the new immigration services at the airport.

I want to emphasise this: To restore the dignity of our mothers, fathers, brothers and sisters, especially in the rural areas, will remain our collective responsibility as proud South African citizens. I am happy to notice that people can now be registered from birth to death and that they have access to better facilities. Also, the fact that we now have mobile units in most rural areas needs to be commended.

There are some challenges, which we need to raise, that the department faces on a regular basis. I am not convinced that the deployment of 54 senior managers will immediately solve your problem regarding the financial systems, which are currently not working. It is evident that the department did not have the capacity to spend money allocated to it in the budgets of the past three consecutive years.

Yes, there is an improvement but it is a long shot to think that we will wave the magic wand and then: Wow, the underspending of three years will disappear! You need to be serious about underspending, because that is an indictment concerning the taxpayer’s money. The Auditor-General’s report raised concerns about the financial management of the revenue. The ID is concerned about the measures that you will put in place to remedy the situation so that that should never happen again.

We also welcome the fact that the department took tremendous strides in its efforts to fight against child pornography. That is a major bone of contention for all concerned South Africans. We also agree with the Freedom Charter when it says: “South Africa belongs to all who live in it”. But when it comes to its implementation, we have some problems and reservations.

In terms of our approach to xenophobia, Africa belongs to Africans. Why are we scared to welcome our neighbouring Africans to Africa? We have systems in place to streamline and legalise the citizens of Africa in a very professional manner. Africa is part of the continent and we have to face that. We need to work together as a team. Therefore I commend the department for its efforts in going across the boundaries to include the African continent. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms N M MADLALA-MAGUBANE: Sihlalo, mangibingelele uNgqongqoshe kanye nabasebenzi bomnyango wakhe, ngibingelele namalungu ahloniphekile wonke. [Chairperson, hon Minister, staff members from her department and hon members, I greet you all.]

The select committee and the ANC are always eager to ensure that the programmes of our government indeed reach all the people. So I want to spend the first few minutes of my debate outlining some of the concerns we found when we embarked upon our oversight visit at the beginning of this year.

We undertook an oversight visit in North West in February 2005. The Home Affairs offices, which were visited, were Ga-Rankuwa and Mabopane, which is situated in the cross-border area, and is providing services in both Gauteng and North West provinces.

There are challenges faced by the Department of Home Affairs, which have already been mentioned by the previous speakers. The number of immigration officials are inadequate. It appeared to us that they also lacked the necessary resources, such as adequate vehicles, to transport illegal immigrants.

The Mabopane office serves as a cross-boundary area, which creates its own unique set of problems. The office has to provide services to people travelling approximately 248 kilometres, since offices closer to them do not have terminals to provide death certificates immediately.

There is a shortage of computers and the buildings are in desperate need of renovation. There is a staff shortage and therefore a failure to do the necessary job adequately, for instance verifying ID applications or alternative documentation, such as baptismal certificates or school letters, which results in fraudulent practices.

However, these challenges were raised with the head office of the Department of Home Affairs in Tshwane on the very same day, and the department promised to address such challenges in line with the President’s state of the nation address last May, which says: We have set out to ensure that during the second decade of freedom we improve the machinery of government so that where ever we are each one of us aspires to act as the servant of the people.

We would like to see that this has indeed been done. While we are aware that the department is addressing all the problems within the department in its turnaround strategy holistically, we do not want these sites that we visited to be neglected when improvements are made. Ngqonqgoshe, ngiyabonga kakhulu ukuzwa ukuthi umnyango wakho uphokophelele ekulungisweni kwazo zonke lezi zinkinga enibhekene nazo. Ngalokho kuzo zuza wonke umphakathi walapha eNingizimu Afrika.

Ozakwethu sebekhulumile maqondana ne-Government Printing Works.(Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Minister, I am grateful to hear that your department is aiming at correcting all these problems that you are faced with. By doing that the whole South African community will benefit.

My colleagues have already spoken about the Government Printing Works.]

We as the ANC needs to express our concern with how this entity has been managed within the Department of Home Affairs in the past. It almost seems as though it is an afterthought to the department, and as a result it has been neglected rather badly.

We know that this entity assists public representatives with our Government Gazettes, among others, at all levels of government. We also know that in 2004-05 to 2006-07, according to the strategic plan, as critical intervention area 10, the Government Printing Works was supposed to have urgent critical posts filled by 1 September 2004.

That is the other challenge faced by the department, also mentioned by previous speakers. The Auditor-General’s report for 2003-04 outlines a 38,7% vacancy rate. These vacancies include lower-skilled posts at 37%, skilled posts at 44,5%, highly-skilled posts at 32,5%, highly-skilled supervision posts at 45,5% and senior management posts at 33,3%. We as the ANC know that without a full staff complement it becomes impossible for the Government Printing Works to fulfil any of its functions effectively and efficiently. We hope that before the next Auditor-General’s report we would have filled these important posts.

Another challenge within the Government Printing Works is the management and control of its finances. It would appear that there are no proper checks and balances in place, with debts being collected and creditors being paid.

During the 2003-04 auditor’s review, the Auditor-General’s office noted the debtor’s balance amounted to approximately R137 million and the management did not charge interest on debts owed to the Government Printing Works, because they could not reliably determine the aging of debtors.

Such a statement from the Auditor-General is an embarrassment to the department and needs to be sorted out immediately, especially since the Government Printing Works has been given a real increase of 1,4% in its budget allocation this current year. Hon member Thetjeng, if I may respond to you, on the Government Printing Works, it is going to be sorted out soon.

Coming to the Independent Electoral Commission, the IEC becomes the most important entity with the government every time we are faced with elections. The entity has proved itself ready for the task of ensuring a free and fair election. Indeed we are unique on the African continent for having elections frequently and incident free. We as ANC-led government are very proud of this phenomenon.

Since we are approaching local government elections shortly, it becomes important that we budget appropriately. We are therefore pleased to note that the IEC has been allocated 63,6% real increase from last year. We are confident that this increase will be sufficient to run a free and fair local government election. I do hope, and I am confident enough to believe, that the budget allocated to the department will be aligned with achieving the broad government objectives. It is pointless for us to continue lamenting like the member of the DA, Thetjeng, complaining and not coming up with concrete proposals for assisting the department.

You are a public representative. It is important to assist where necessary and stop lamenting. I am sure you know the channels for lodging complaints. I thank you. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Chairperson, I want to start by thanking all hon members for the constructive debate we have just been engaged in. I think it was good – very constructive and very informative for me and I believe for the officials - because we were not aware of some of the issues raised by hon members. I am particularly interested in the issue that was raised regarding officials who are able to transfer money and make payments to companies without proper authorisation or without those companies having rendered services to the department. I would really be interested in getting more information about it so that we can do what is necessary and investigate it. Some of the information which you have at your disposal we, as the department, do not have at times, and therefore the best route to take would be for you to provide us with the relevant information so that we can investigate it.

Once again, thank you very much, hon members, for the issues you have raised in your debate. I will not respond to all the issues that have been raised, but I will respond to issues which really require of me to give some explanations such as the first issue of concern, which was raised by almost all the speakers, namely the issue of long queues. This is a problem we will have to live with for a long time in this country. It really is a matter which is beyond our control. It has to do with our history and the way our offices were structured.

The majority of our people, particularly those in the rural areas, did not have this service in areas which were accessible to them. You would have the offices of the Department of Home Affairs located in far-flung areas in your cities and towns, and then people from the rural areas were expected to get into buses and taxis to reach these offices in order for them to access these services. Therefore, what we are trying to do right now is to have mobile units as service points. Admittedly these are still provisional. This is what we are trying to put in place really to deal with the backlog that we have as the Department of Home Affairs. It is a backlog.

However, we cannot say that this is adequate. It is far from being adequate. It is impossible to say that and then to make a promise or give an undertaking here that every village will have a service point. But what we can say is that every village will have a mobile unit that will reach that village, even if it is once or twice every fortnight. Let me say that. We can give the undertaking that there will be a mobile unit that will reach the villages.

Meanwhile, what will happen? People will still need those services. They will need to access an office of the Department of Home Affairs, and they may not want to wait for a mobile unit, which would probably reach their area in 10 days’ time. They will need a service to be rendered to them. Therefore, they will still have to go to the nearest service point, and thus we will still have this problem of long queues at the Department of Home Affairs. They may not be as long as they have been, but we are still going to live with this problem.

This is a reality that we need to explain to our people. We are trying to do our best, we are trying to bring the services closer to our people, and we are trying to reach as many corners of our country as possible. However, we are still going to live with this legacy of apartheid; with this backlog of the Department of Home Affairs. It is a reality.

Secondly, there is the issue of flexihours. I think it is a good thing that we have these flexihours, but we also have people working beyond four o’clock. You must do the oversight, hon members. I will not know, where I am, that my officials are closing the offices between one and two o’clock. So, I am glad that you raised this, because this has come to an end.

There is a directive that the offices of the Department of Home Affairs should not be closed between one and two o’clock. People must stagger their lunchtimes so that you do not have to close the offices of the Department of Home Affairs. This will allow people who are at work to access these services during their lunch times. That is the directive that is out there. But I rely on the officials to implement this. We can issue the directive with the director-general. But who should monitor the implementation? You, the public representatives, in order to give us feedback so that we know whether the directives which we issued to our officials are in fact being complied with.

The last concern about the issue of flexihours is this challenge of weekends, because we are now open on Saturdays from the morning until one o’clock. We will not know if our offices do open on Saturdays, unless you do your oversight work by informing us whether the office on your corner or in your constituency does open.

If it does open, good; if it does not open, what do you do? You take the officials to task, because you have the information and you know what the directive is. It is part of your oversight work as public representatives, not as members of the select committee. You do not have to be a member of the select committee of the Department of Home Affairs; as public representatives it is our responsibility – all of us – to ensure that, because of the problems, we exercise this oversight role of ensuring that people do the right thing.

As far as the Government Printing Works is concerned, we all know it has had major problems for many years, but what has been the major problem of the GPW is that provinces – our own provinces - which have been benefiting from the GPW by having their own stationery and any other service rendered by the GPW, have not been paying.

For instance, we have had outstanding debt of R134 million. Right now, at least, we have been able to recover R86 million. I am not convinced that we will be able to recover everything that is owed to the GPW, but we have at least been able to get R86 million. However, we are owed R134 million. By whom? In the main by government departments, in particular, of the provinces. That’s the first thing I want to say.

The second problem we have of course has been the management of the Government Printing Works. And, hon members are aware that the GPW is right now going through a process of corporatisation, which we have been talking about for many years. However, deciding on which route to take has been a challenge that we have been faced with. For a long time it has been difficult to agree on which route to take in terms of the GPW. Right now, we have just appointed a CEO and that CEO has been given exactly 12 months to take us through the process of the corporatisation of the GPW.

At the same time there is also another process that is running parallel to that process simultaneously, and that is a forensic audit of the GPW, because we have been receiving qualified statements from the Auditor- General. We have never had a forensic audit of the GPW and right now we have an ongoing forensic audit so that we can understand what exactly the nature of the problem at the GPW is.

The last issue I would like to respond to is the issue of the centralisation even of minor functions. You are right, hon members, but it is not as though there is nothing that is being done about this. We are trying to do something about this. You’re probably aware that we’re the only department, I don’t know about the others - I stand corrected – where all our provincial managers have been at director level. And now we have taken the decision to ensure that people who are running our provincial offices, our provincial heads, are at the level of chief director.

In this way you entrust a lot of responsibility to them. Yes, you entrust a lot of responsibility and you are actually able to devolve some of the functions to them. That is besides the trivial matters that have been raised. Such trivial issues refer to, when among others, ablution facilities are blocked they have to go to head office, when they need toilet paper they have to go to head office, and when they need glue they have to go to head office. I am talking about very serious matters relating to actual services that must be rendered to people.

However, you do have these kinds of very trivial, minor functions. Small things like when they have to buy something they have to contact to the CFO, the head office, and make a requisition, and then we must sanction it from there. When they need a plumber they must contact head office and we must follow up with them on who the plumber in that vicinity is, and they will inform us who the plumber is. Then they have to go through all these processes, and, probably a month or two later, we will have that particular tap fixed.

These are all the small things we are trying to deal with at the department. However, our strength lies in the fact that we have recognised and identified the problem, and we recognise that it is creating major problems. For example, you may go to our offices and find that people are unable to move on because there is no paper. The photocopier is broken, and it cannot be repaired because they are waiting for head office to do that. In the process it delays the work, and they cannot render the services they need to render.

So we are trying to deal with all these matters so that we can make it possible for people to fulfil their responsibilities in the province.

The very last issue is that which have been raised by the hon members about Ga-Rankuwa and Mabopane; you visited these two offices and you identified very serious problems of, for instance, inaccessibility for people living with disabilities. I want to be honest and admit that this is one of the shortcomings of the mobile units that we have just built. We have identified a serious shortcoming in building the mobile units we actually built mobile units that are inaccessible for people living with a disability.

Then again, these were the first of their kind. The kind of mobile units that we have delivered are the first of their kind. This was a learning curve for us. We want to promise South Africa, our people, that with the next batch of mobile units that we will deliver, we will ensure that we take into consideration the fact that people with disabilities must be able to enter the mobile unit, so that when you render the service you do not have to do it outside in public. As it is, it is a mobile unit that requires them to go upstairs, and this is going to create a bit of a problem. When we were unveiling these mobile units we actually had to make a statement to the country acknowledging that we have identified this shortcoming and that it will be rectified.

Then, regarding Lindela, the hon member raised the issue of people with dark skins being the ones who are found at Lindela, and they are at times South Africans. It is true. I know this, even from my own family. I have children who are very dark, and some who are very light-skinned. I always have to remind my eldest son to carry his ID whenever he goes out. Yes, because he always hits a problem with the police at the gate when he comes home and at times there is a new policeman and then the policeman wants to know who he is. And, when he tells them: “I stay here, I live here”, the policeman does not believe him. They do not associate the boy with us, you know, because he is very dark.

This has to do with the past. It has to do with our past and our own socialisation, our own orientation, our own indoctrination, and all that go with it. Our mindset is, when our immigration officers and policemen talk about illegal immigrants, that an illegal immigrant can only be a person with a dark skin. It cannot be me, it cannot be a light-skinned person, and it cannot be a white person.

As a result, when you visit Lindela, indeed, you hardly find people with light skins as they raid target areas that are flooded with people from the African continent. It is a terrible embarrassment to us. It shows the indoctrination which has been there all along, and these are some of the ills of the past that we have to deal with. And, it is going to take time for us to deal with this blockage people still have in their minds.

I am not justifying their conduct. I cannot justify their conduct. I am saying that we have to preach this every day - that an illegal immigrant is not a dark-skinned person walking down the road; you have to preach this all the time. Therefore, we have put systems in place in Lindela so that when people come in for admission, when they are booked in, you will be able to verify immediately whether these people are in fact illegals or not.

So, we do have an IT system and we have a system now that operates 24 hours, so that you do not have to have people sleeping in cells at Hillbrow police station. As soon as people are arrested they are sent through immediately, and they are booked in immediately. Also, in the past you would have a train that would travel to these countries once every fortnight or once a month. We now have weekly trains that deport them to their various countries. So we do not have people staying for long periods; after all, their only crime is that of being economic migrants. There is no crime that they have committed other than that. We should also be careful not to be seen as being xenophobic in the manner in which we deal with this particular issue.

I also, need to emphasise the issue of women at Lindela. There is a clear directive that we issued about women. I do not want women to stay for two days, if I could have things my way. You will find that some of the women who are booked in at Lindela are pregnant, or some of these women have children. We therefore want to avoid a situation where you have women with babies or with children being booked in at Lindela.

Nonetheless, they are also illegal immigrants. So we have to find a place to keep them before they are deported to their countries. We still book them in, but they receive first priority, the first train or bus, or whatever form of transport is available, so that we take them out and do not keep them at the centre for any longer than three nights.

We have improved our systems at Lindela. In fact, you will find that since we have opened up Lindela to the media and to some of these organisations that have been writing all sorts of gory stories about what is happening behind closed doors at Lindela, there is hardly anything to find, because we have now demystified Lindela. We have opened the doors and we are saying, come and interview the people, come and talk to the people. Talk to the people about what they eat and how they are treated at Lindela. Now that we have opened the doors there is hardly anything to read about in the papers, because there is nothing juicy to write about what is happening at Lindela. Thank you very much, once more, Chairperson, for this good debate. Thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 16:55. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. Translation of Bills submitted

 (1)    The Minister for Provincial and Local Government


        i) Wetsontwerp op die Herbepaling van Grense van
           Oorgrensmunisipaliteite [W
        12 – 2005] (National Assembly – sec 75)


     This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the Re-
     determination of the Boundaries of Cross-Boundary Municipalities
     Bill [B 12 – 2005] (National Assembly – sec 75).

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson

   General Report of the Auditor-General on Provincial Audit Outcomes for 2003-2004 [RP 42-2005].

2. The Minister of Transport

   (a) Accession to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation and to the Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Fixed Platforms Located on the Continental Shelf, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996 (Act No 108 of 1996).

   (b) Explanatory Memorandum to the Accession to the Convention for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Maritime Navigation and to the Protocol for the Suppression of Unlawful Acts against the Safety of Fixed Platforms Located on the Continental Shelf.

   (c) Bilateral Air Service Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Great Socialist People’s Libyan Arab Jamahiriya for Scheduled Air Services Between their Territories and Beyond, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.

3. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development

   (a) Report on the provisional suspension from office of senior magistrate Mr M J S Nhleko.

   (b) Report on the provisional suspension from office of magistrate Mr R Ameer.

   (c) Report on the provisional suspension from office of magistrate Mr M K Chauke.

   (d) Report on the provisional suspension from office of magistrate Mr M S Makamu.