THURSDAY, 15 SEPTEMBER 2005 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

                                ____

The Council met at 14:08.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr O M THETJENG: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the Council I will move:

That the Council –

 1) notes –


     a) that an hon member of the ANC has accused the DA leader, Tony
        Leon, MP, of using economic fear politics when he observed that
        the government’s black economic empowerment legislation was
        holding back foreign investment;
     b) the following quote, “The financing of BEE deals that do not
        necessarily raise productive investment levels in the domestic
        economy is therefore a drain on scarce capital assets and will
        impact on the medium-term investment level. This is just one
        example where policy decisions in South Africa sometimes
        contradict each other, resulting in the failure to meet our
        most important objectives.”;

     c) also the following quote, “If all indicators in South Africa
        were to continue along the same trajectory, especially in
        respect of the dynamic of economic inclusion and exclusion, we
        could soon reach a point where the negatives overwhelm the
        positives. This could precipitate a vicious cycle of decline in
        all spheres.”;

 2) further notes that these things were not said by Tony Leon, the DA
    or the opposition, but they were said by the ANC and the
    government;    [Interjections.]

(3) recognises that the first quotation was said by the Deputy Minister of Finance, Jabu Moleketi, in an ANC discussion document and the second was from the government’s 10 year review document; and

 3) therefore calls on the Council to acknowledge that even the ANC
    recognises . . .

[Time expired.]

Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move, on behalf of the IFP:

That the Council –

(1) notes that the rape case against a Pretoria police inspector has been postponed to 9 December 2005 in order to obtain DNA results;

(2) notes that the accused was a court orderly when he raped the suspect during lunch time at a court holding cell on 2 June 2005, threatening her with a firearm;

(3) further notes that waiting for DNA results has taken almost six months;

(4) acknowledges that Pretoria is the only place where DNA laboratory tests are conducted; and

(5) urges the Ministry for Justice and Constitutional Development, and the Ministry of Safety and Security to find a speedy method of resolving the problem of delays in DNA results so that courts are not delayed in hearing cases of rape.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Before I proceed, I would like to welcome the hon Minister of Finance, Trevor Manuel, and also Minister Jordan, Minister of Arts and Culture. We welcome you to our House today. Feel welcome. [Applause.]

                        MOTION OF CONDOLENCE


                    (The late Malusi Ndabandaba)

Nkk M N OLIPHANT: Sihlalo, ngiphakamisa ngaphandle kwesaziso:

Ukuthi lo Mkhandlu –

(1) uzwakalisa ukushaqeka okukhulu ngokwedlula emhlabeni kukaMalusi Ndabandaba obeyindodana kaNgqongqoshe wezolimo nezemvelo KwaZulu- Natali, owedlule emhlabeni ngengozi yokuphahlazeka kwebhanoyi nobeyingqalabutho ekushayeleni izindiza zombutho kwabansundu;

(2) uthi akwehlanga lungehlanga, konke abakubuyisele kuMdali bavume bathi mayenzeke intando yakhe. (Translation of isiZulu motion of condolence follows.)

[Mrs M N OLIPHANT: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council – (1) notes with extreme shock the passing away of Malusi Ndabandaba, the son of the MEC for agriculture and environmental affairs in KwaZulu- Natal who was killed in a plane crash, and who was also the first black air-force pilot; and

(2) expresses its sincere condolences and says to the family that they should leave everything to the Creator and accept His will.]

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                        MOTION OF CONDOLENCE


                 (The late Chief Rabbi Cyril Harris)

Ms D ROBINSON: Hon Chair, I move without notice:

That the Council –

(1) notes the death of Emeritus Chief Rabbi Cyril Harris, a towering leader and a tireless fighter against apartheid and one of the founding members of the National Religious Leaders Forum; (2) further notes that Rabbi Harris set an example of co-operation between different religious groups encouraging them to work together on common issues for the betterment of society; and (3) therefore extends its sympathy to his family and to the entire Jewish community. We will remember him.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                  DEFERMENT OF ITEM ON ORDER PAPER

                           (Announcement)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Deputy Chairperson, I move without notice that the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper be deferred until further notice.

APPROVAL OF THE RATE OF SALARIES AND ALLOWANCES PAYABLE TO CONSTITUTIONAL COURT JUDGES OR JUDGES

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Hon Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the Council resolves, in terms of section 15(4)(b)(i) of the Judges Remuneration and Conditions of Employment Act, 2001 (Act 47 of 2001), as amended by section 15 of the Judicial Officers (Amendment of Conditions of Service) Act, 2003 (Act 28 of 2003), to approve in whole the determination by the President of the Republic of South Africa of the rate of salaries and allowances payable to Constitutional Court Judges or Judges, as it appears in the Draft Notice and Schedule of 22 August 2005, tabled in the Council on 7 September 2005.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Thank you, hon member. There is no speakers’ list. I shall now put the question. The question is that the motion be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all the delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all the delegation heads present?

HON MEMBERS: Yes.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): In accordance with Rule 71 I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. None. We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: Steun. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Free State?

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Steun. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Gauteng?

Mr E M SOGONI: Re a dumela. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal is in favour.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Limpopo?

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Siyavuma. [We agree.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Mpumalanga?

Ms F NYANDA: Mpumalanga supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Northern Cape?

Mr M A SULLIVAN: Ke a rona. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): North West?

Rev P MOATSHE: Ons ondersteun. [We support.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Western Cape?

Mr N MACK (Western Cape): Supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): All the provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                   INTERGOVERNMENTAL FISCAL REVIEW

                           (Introduction)

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Deputy Chairperson, hon members, members of executive councils of provinces and representatives of provincial legislatures, I come bearing good tidings.

Eleven years into our young democracy, as we reflect on the path that we have traversed as South Africans, we clearly have cause to celebrate. We must celebrate because through our collective leadership and co-operative relationship, out of a pariah state, we have created a democracy and an intergovernmental system that works. Yes, we have created an intergovernmental system that has become the envy of many countries.

Eleven years ago very few people would have predicted that today our country would be playing host to several delegations from the developing and developed world who came to find out from us how we got to where we are and how we manage to stay the course. While the pessimists in our midst tend to sell us short, the rest of the world appreciates what we have accomplished within a very short period of time.

Today, as an executive authority responsible for finance, I am inundated with submissions from officials in the Treasury who are invited to conferences and workshops, both here and internationally, on intergovernmental relations, budgeting and financial management. Often the invitations are not asking them to come and learn, but they are invited to go and teach and to share the practical experience of South Africa.

Yes, hon members, there is a lot to celebrate about being a South African today, because by rising above petty party-politics in just over a decade, we have achieved what many countries across the globe have not been able to achieve in several decades of independence and freedom.

I referred earlier to something that I have learnt from the United States where they have had an intergovernmental system that has worked for centuries. In the city of New Orleans there are bodies floating in the water. The mayor says it is not the city’s responsibility to collect them, the governor of the state of Louisiana says it is not her responsibility and the federal emergency management agencies say it isn’t theirs either.

What you are seeing in the context of the wake of hurricane Katrina is the failure of an intergovernmental system to work. What the intergovernmental fiscal review or provincial budgets and expenditure review document tells us is a very different story about how things work in South Africa.

Hon members, there are more reasons for feeling good to be a South African today. Eleven years into our democracy we have reduced debt service costs to about 3,5% of GDP and school education expenditure surpasses debt service by R17 billion. The hon Dr Pallo Jordan remembers that intense debate we had in 1996 because our debt service costs would have been higher than education expenditure.

Enrolment in schools now is close to 12 million; over 10 million South Africans now benefit from different social security grants; visits to our primary health care centres have risen to 2,4 times per uninsured person per year; we have built 1,8 million houses, and at the same time we have stepped up infrastructure expenditure.

All of this has been achieved through the resources that have been allocated to provinces through successive Division of Revenue Acts that have been passed by this House. It makes sense that we come back to this House to inform it about what has been delivered from expending those resources. This is what accountability is about and this is what sustains our young and burgeoning democracy.

The provincial budgets and expenditure review we table before this House today is a barometer with which we attempt to measure the progress we made in delivering services to our people. The approach to this year’s review is different from previous ones in at least two respects.

Firstly, we have changed the name of this year’s publication and we call it Provincial Budgets and Expenditure Review because it does not include information on local government budgets and expenditure. A separate publication on local government will be published early next year. Secondly, we have had a two-day workshop with the NCOP in which delegates from provinces took part, and hon members have had copies of this book for almost a week now.

I would like to express our sincere appreciation to the leadership of the NCOP for facilitating that workshop. I think it clearly was well worth the effort. There was only one person I recorded as absent and that was the distinguished Chairperson of this House. [Laughter.] I hope that he nevertheless did receive a copy of the publication. We noted his absence.

The workshop went so well that I have decided before I leave the podium here this afternoon to conduct an oral examination. [Laughter.] Everybody will pass. That is very encouraging.

I would like to thank the hon Chairperson of the NCOP and Mr Ralane. The chairperson explained why he was absent. However, his efforts not only in convening the NCOP, but also in ensuring the participation of all nine provincial legislatures, is very encouraging.

The question has to arise as to why we publish this review. There is no statutory obligation or legal requirement that we publish a document like this. So, why do we do it? It is an obligation we impose on ourselves because we think that after Parliament and legislatures have appropriated public funds to various functions, it is the correct thing to come back and account on how these funds have been used.

So, the primary aim of publishing this review is to strengthen the oversight role of our elected representatives. From time to time, as we reflect on the progress we are making with ensuring the progressive realisation of the basic rights of our people, we need to measure both quantitatively and qualitatively the progress we are making. This review is intended to contribute towards that process.

We cannot produce a review such as this as an end in itself. Rather, it must be a means to an end. For us, as elected representatives, that end is understanding where the resources we appropriate go to, what services they buy, who uses them or benefits from them, and how the beneficiaries’ lives change as they benefit from improved quality of services. Of course, the review should also indicate to us where we are not achieving the goals we set ourselves so that remedial steps can indeed be taken.

Hon members, we must give effect to the Public Finance Management Act by subscribing to the view that says: “What is not measured cannot be managed.” This review must empower us to engage quite differently with budgets, departmental strategic plans, financial statements and annual reports. As elected representatives we should be able to draw the links between these documents.

In February we tabled the Division of Revenue Bill, which was later passed by this House. This year’s Division of Revenue allocates R417,8 billion. Excluding debt services cost and a contingency reserve, this year’s allocated expenditure amounts to R362,7 billion.

Because provinces are at the epicentre of the delivery of pro-poor programmes, Parliament, including this House, saw fit to allocate them R209,3 billion, or 58% of the allocated expenditure. These generous allocations lay a basis for continued acceleration in spending in key provincial functions.

Turning then to social services, firstly education. Building on the foundation laid in previous years, school education expenditure grows by 3,2% in real terms, that is after we take account of inflation. In 2005-06 it increases from R65,7 billion to R70 billion. This will further reinforce growth in spending per pupil and can be expected to set a basis for qualitative improvements in educational outcomes.

Growth of this magnitude in education spending should make an immense contribution to ensure South Africans get skills, which will enable them to gain access to the labour market so that they can be gainfully employed. A similar trend can be observed in relation to health spending, which shows strong real growth of more than 5% in 2005-06; rising from R40,6 billion to R45,8 billion.

Delivery of quality health care requires personnel with specialised skills. The scarce skills strategy that government instituted in the health sector two years ago is beginning to show positive results. Provinces increased their health personnel by over 3 500 in the 11-month period to February this year.

In relation to social development, hon members may recall that the division of revenue for 2005 that was tabled in February reflected a change in the Budget framework to provide for consolidation of social security grants administration in a single national agency.

From this financial year all social security grants-related expenditure is funded through two large conditional grants: The social assistance administration grant and the social assistance transfers grant.

This review shows that social development expenditure rose from 23,7% in 2001-02 to 33,9% in the current fiscal year - a phenomenal growth indeed. Accordingly, the number of beneficiaries over the same period rose from 3,6 million to 9,4 million.

The trends in social development expenditure invoke mixed feelings. While we welcome the fact that most South Africans can now benefit from income support that is provided by government, we also cannot help but ask the following questions: Are the trends in spending we see today consistent with the vision of a South Africa we want to see in the years to come? Do we want to create a nation that spends 3,2% of its GDP on social security grants? Is our vision of a future South Africa one in which over 20% of the population depend on welfare for their livelihood?

As elected representatives we must ask ourselves these questions because we want to check if current trends in the composition of expenditure keep us on course towards creating a developmental state. Yes, we must ask these questions not because we want to take away these benefits from fellow South Africans who may happen to be less fortunate than ourselves, but because we want to engage differently in future policy debates on the balance between welfare and other expenditure. We must understand the impact of the decisions we take today on future generations. That is what intergenerational equity is all about.

This year’s provincial budgets provide for strong growth in spending on economic functions including roads, agriculture and tourism. Together with provincial administration and governance functions, these sectors comprise 18% of total provincial expenditure. Their combined budgets amount to R37 billion in the current year. This is R4,1 billion more than was spent on these functions last year.

Whilst allocations for infrastructure have risen sharply in recent years, the underspending of R2 billion or 20% of adjusted capital budgets in the last financial year points to an urgent need to strengthen infrastructure planning, budgeting and project management capacity in the provinces.

In conclusion, while we celebrate the achievements of our democratic government in delivering services to our people equitably, we want to caution that more remains to be done. We cannot afford to be complacent. One of the areas that needs urgent attention is the gathering and collation of non-financial information on the services that various sectors deliver. For it is only through assessing the quality of the public services that we can establish whether the government derives maximum value for every rand it spends and thus can be in a position to tell whether we are truly progressing towards creating a better life for all.

I now submit to this House the Provincial Budgets and Expenditure Review. I look forward to the outcome of the hearings that would be conducted by the NCOP and I trust that the energy and enthusiasm of members of the NCOP will spill over to provincial legislatures and that they too will conduct their own hearings. We look forward then to receiving a detailed report and advice to ensure that our budgeting can be more effective, and more aligned with the needs of the elected representatives in this House. I thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

                   CELEBRATING OUR LIVING HERITAGE


                      (Subject for Discussion)

The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Madam Deputy Chairperson, hon members, representatives of the provinces, members of the executive committees of provinces present here, the month of September is set aside for reminding each other as South Africans of the rich cultural heritage bequeathed to us by our forebears. It is that heritage that distinguishes us and makes us what we are today.

Every September we reaffirm our commitment to consolidating the unity of our nation, one that is united and yet strong because of its diversity in terms of languages, races, religions, lifestyles and preferences.

We are releasing the 2005 Heritage Month Calendar of Events, outlining planned activities for the month of September 2005, covering all of South Africa. We will also be sharing with you the activities planned for the main event to be held at Taung in the North West province on Heritage Day, 24 September 2005.

During the 29th session of the World Heritage Committee held in July 2005 at the Durban International Conference and Convention Centre under the auspices of the South African government and the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organisation – Unesco - Taung, the site of one of the earliest hominid finds in Southern Africa, together with Mokapane’s Valley in the Limpopo province, was incorporated into one of our most important heritage sites, the Cradle of Humankind, and was thus elevated to the status of a World Heritage Site.

Over the past three months further discoveries of early hominid tools at Sterkfontein testify to the fact that South Africa was very likely the place were human beings first learnt to make tools. Our capacity to make tools is humanity’s oldest and perhaps most important heritage.

Chipped stones uncovered at Sterkfontein launched those first human ancestors on a journey that continues till the present. It was those instruments that endowed us with the ability to change, to reshape and even to redirect our living environment. Our capacity to communicate and hand down to our offspring what we have experienced, learnt and achieved is the basis of all culture; the raw material of human heritage.

During the year 2004 we celebrated the 10th anniversary of our democratic dispensation, hence the 10th anniversary of our democratic dispensation focusing on our heritage in general. This year the main theme “Celebrating our living heritage: What we live” is the continuation of a theme that commenced in 2004 and is planned to continue until 2006. This was a collective decision taken by my Ministry and the MECs responsible for arts, culture and heritage in the provinces during the last year.

Under the rubric of the broad theme of celebrating our living heritage, the 2005 sub-theme is our indigenous foods, our knowledge and our heritage. This is a choice influence in the main, but following the objectives of government.

The emphasis on indigenous knowledge systems, or IKS, promotes, conserves and creates a link between living heritage and the everyday experience of ordinary South Africans. The emphasis on South Africa’s indigenous foods also sends a positive message. Our indigenous foods have the potential to unlock economic benefits for small and medium-sized businesses. The promotion of indigenous foods could lead to the revival of methods of organic food production, promote food security and stimulate the revival of cultivation of local medicinal plants that could reinvigorate the rural economic systems.

Hopefully a spin-off would be the reaffirmation of African heritage and a re-examination of indigenous cuisine, not only with nutritional value, but also for the manner in which it tickles one’s palate. Some of it is extremely tasty, and those who do not believe us should show up on the appropriate day.

In partnership with the provincial arts, culture and heritage departments, various universities and non-governmental organisations in the cultural heritage sector, my Ministry has designed a month-long programme focusing on various disciplines in our cultural heritage.

The salient features of the programme are: music competitions – regional indigenous music competitions will be held in a number of provinces; art exhibitions – various art exhibitions will be held in different provinces; displays of indigenous equipment, utensils, cutlery and printed materials; food fairs – displays of indigenous foods at different stages of production; performance – various performances, including music, theatre, dance and dramatisations, especially of our sub-theme; and, lastly, indigenous fashion.

I’m certain we’ll see a great deal of local African fashion on display at all these events, and we want to invite hon members to join in, join in the fun, partake in the fun, by wearing some of those indigenous costumes.

A detailed document outlining these various activities that I’ve touched upon is available. It contains specific events and activities in the provinces with relevant dates and contact persons.

Our main event on 25 September, Heritage Day, will take place at Taung in the North West province. The official programme starts at around 09h00 and ends at 12h30. Its highlights include a keynote address by our President, President Thabo Mbeki. There will be an indigenous food fair, which has been set up by my Ministry acting together with the Ministry of Science and Technology and Indisa Foods, an outfit associated with the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, and they will be staging an indigenous food fair and exhibition.

This colourful exhibition will be divided into three main categories: category 1 will showcase the raw materials from which South Africa’s indigenous foods and drinks are made - these will be a variety of plants, grains and other crops that are harvested and used in the production of food; category 2 will display a selection of South African cuisine, trace the various influences that have made South African cuisine what it is today – influences from India, Malaysia, Europe, the Americas, etc – and where necessary the sociocultural context in which particular foods are used and consumed will also be explained; category 3 will be a display of commercial products that have been developed and packaged for the South African and international markets.

I would like to thank our partners, especially the Ministry of Science and Technology and the Council for Scientific and Industrial Research, and the agency, Indisa Foods, for their role in the development of this category of our indigenous food fair exhibition.

Following our established practice during national celebrations, the main cultural programme will start after 12h30 and end at 17h30. We’ve lined up an exciting array of entertainers and artists, both modern and traditional. That line-up will be available in due course.

There will also be a number of other activities in other parts of the country, which I would like to highlight on this occasion. Amongst them, beginning this Sunday, the SA National Gallery here in Cape Town will open a retrospective exhibition of the work of Dumile Feni, one of South Africa’s most important post-war visual artists. And, on 1 October 2005 the same National Gallery will open a second exhibition, putting on display the work of some 80 twentieth-century South African visual artists.

All these promise to be very exciting events, which will bring to light many of the known and unknown figures in the arts history of our country. In this way, in 2005, we hope to celebrate and mark our heritage – our living heritage – and also the heritage we inherited from the past. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr J B TOLO: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and colleagues, on the 24th of this month the eyes of South Africa will be focused on Taung, the home of the famous Taung skull in the North West province. It is in this small dusty town that national Heritage Day will be celebrated. As a committee we are convinced that the choice of Taung for this year’s national celebration is most appropriate as this will help put Taung on the map as one of the most important heritage sites in our country.

South Africa must, as it does, take very seriously the issues of heritage and culture. It is said that a country or nation that does not value its heritage and culture, does not deserve its future. This year’s sub-theme in this heritage month is, as the Minister has already stated, our indigenous foods, our knowledge and our heritage. It means therefore that we need to pay special attention to, and raise consciousness amongst our people of, the importance of our indigenous foods.

South Africa has a very rich biodiversity. Although it takes up only 1% of the earth’s surface, it provides about 10% of the world’s plant species, many of which are key sources of food dishes, medicine and crafts. Although as a country we are endowed with these riches, only a tiny minority of our people know the nutritional value of these crops and other plant material. We do know that poverty is extremely rife, mainly in the rural areas where unemployment is very high, but our people there have abandoned the use of indigenous foods to alleviate poverty.

To an extent we can put the blame on our former colonial masters who sought to teach us that that which was African and indigenous was barbaric and backward, and that we must embrace unreservedly colonial and European cultures for they were said to be in line with civilisation.

It’s a sad story when we think of some African leaders like Bokassa who shunned indigenous products. He went to the extent of drinking only water from France, his colonial master’s country of origin. We are saying therefore today that South Africa and Africa in general must affirm all that is indigenous and progressive, including our indigenous foods.

African delicacies, such as morogo, which for those who do not know is an indigenous leafy vegetable, diretlo or malamogodu which is tripe or insides, bogobe bja mabele which is sorghum porridge, and masotsa which is mopani worms, are but a few examples of African cuisine we can mention here today. When tourists come to our country, they want to taste African dishes. They get disappointed when we constantly serve them that which they are used to eating in Europe and America.

We want to thank the Department of Arts and Culture for picking the month of September as the month in which to showcase, promote and preserve our country’s indigenous foods as part of our living heritage and as part of our knowledge. The commercial utilisation of indigenous food dishes is very limited in South Africa. Government and communities must join hands to revive and promote our indigenous foods commercially. This will go a long way in promoting local economic development whilst eradicating poverty.

As a country we must look at the possibility of packaging indigenous foods for both the local and international markets. We need to engage in vigorous campaigns to market these foods, as they are very nutritional and affordable, as said earlier on. We need to go back to our roots if we are serious about combating illnesses such as obesity, cardiac failure and all types of diabetes. These are diseases that are caused mainly by processed foods.

The added advantage for us is that we have won the bid to host the Fifa World Cup in 2010. This is the biggest sporting event in the world. We are going to have multitudes of people from all over the world coming to South Africa. Many of these people will want to kill many birds with one stone. While they will want to watch soccer, they will also love to experience South Africa. Here, as a nation, we have a golden opportunity to showcase and even brag about our indigenous foods.

Other than indigenous foods, South Africa is also endowed with many international, national and even local heritage sites. I was impressed when, as a committee, we visited a small village called Eksteenfontein in the Northern Cape. There we saw how a small community was putting together a museum that told the story of that small place. It dawned on me that it was possible to have a local heritage site in every town and every village of our country. It is so because each area in our country has a story to tell for future generations.

Our indigenous languages are our heritage. The colonial rulers of Africa and South Africa tried very hard to suppress and kill our languages. A typical example of this type of colonialism was the Portuguese colonialism they earlier called “assimilation” a situation in which an African was assimilated into the Portuguese culture and traditions. That person was no longer African, but Portuguese who should conveniently forget his or her mother tongue or pretend to have forgotten his or her mother tongue. Once a person reached this state of affairs, he or she shall would lost his or her soul.

It is for this reason that we must jealously guard and develop our own languages. We must encourage our children to think and speak in their own mother tongue. Once we have a deep feeling for our future, our languages, our heritage, we will inevitably have a deep feeling and love for our country. And once we have this, we will know that we are patriotic to our fatherland. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr A WATSON: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon colleagues, this is our last plenary session of this term. In South Africa today the word “heritage” has become a bit synonymous with the past, so whilst I welcome this debate in the interests of our nation as a whole, I am particularly pleased that the topic refers to our living heritage.

Heritage is not only about preserving the family silver, but also about providing for the next and future generations by arming them with the means to preserve that which is of value and which has been left in their care, whilst also being creative enough to leave behind its own heritage; yet laying the foundations for future generations to do likewise.

Dit is die kwessie van ons lewende erfenis wat vir my en my party so belangrik is, want ons pragtige land is ongelooflik ryk aan lewende erfenisse, van die Kaap tot in die Karoo, van Natal tot in Noord-Wes en van Koekenaap tot in die Krugerwildtuin.

’n AGB LID: Wat van Pofadder?

Mnr A WATSON: Ja, Pofadder ook. Dink maar net aan ons pragtige natuurerfenis langs die Tuinroete, die vele grotte in ons land, bewaringserfenisse soos Tafelberg en die Nasionale Krugerwildtuin, en waterwonders soos Augrabies en Blydepoort – om maar net enkeles van die honderde te noem.

Daarby kom natuurlik ook ons kultuurerfenis soos geboue en standbeelde wat in die afgelope 300 jaar opgerig en bewaar is en, ons is dankbaar, nog steeds opgerig en bewaar word. Elkeen van die lewende erfenisse is daar vir ons om te waardeer en te bewaar, en beslis nie om te herskep nie.

Ongelukkig is dit so dat erfenisbewaring nie altyd deur die vorige regeerders gebalanseerd toegepas is nie. ’n Groot deel van ons bevolking se kultuur en geskiedenis is nie genoegsaam erken, en ook nie genoegsaam as erfenisse bewaar nie. Dit is ’n feit. Dit is dus reg en goed dat ons hierdie onregte van die verlede erken en herstel deur erkenning te verleen en eer te betoon aan die erfenisse van al die volke van ons kleurryke nasie.

So byvoorbeeld moet ons die foutiewe benamings van die verlede regstel, en daardie name verander wat aanstoot gee. Daar is egter ongelukkig ’n onding wat in hierdie goedbedoelde en noodsaaklike regstellings ingesluip het, naamlik ’n groepering wat wil hê dat alle name wat as blanke - of veral Afrikaanse - name vertolk kan word, verander moet word.

Dit is waar dat nuwe regeerders wêreldwyd deur die geskiedenis neig om die name van vorige helde en leiers te vervang met die name van hulle eie helde en leiers - en dit is seker verstaanbaar. Die tendens, egter, om alles voor die voet te wil verander, is totaal onverstaanbaar, onverdedigbaar en beslis teenproduktief wat erfenisbewaring in die besonder betref. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[It is the matter of our living heritage that is so important to my party and I, because our beautiful country is exceptionally rich in living heritage sites, from the Cape to the Karoo, from Natal to the North West and from Koekenaap to the Kruger National Park.

An HON MEMBER: What about Pofadder?

Mr A WATSON: Yes, Pofadder too. Just think of our beautiful natural heritage along the Garden Route, the many caves in our country, conservation heritage sites like Table Mountain and the Kruger National Park, and water wonders like Augrabies and the Blyde River Canyon – to mention but a few out of the hundreds.

In addition to this, of course, we also have our cultural heritage, like buildings and statues, which were erected and preserved in the past 300 years, and are still being erected and preserved, for which we are grateful. Each of the living heritage sites is there for us to value and to preserve, and certainly not to recreate.

Regrettably, heritage conservation was not always implemented in a balanced manner by previous governments. A major part of our nation’s culture and history was not adequately acknowledged, nor was it adequately preserved as heritage. This is a fact. It is therefore fit and proper for us to acknowledge these injustices of the past and put matters right by acknowledging and honouring the heritage of all the peoples of our colourful nation.

In this way, for example, we should rectify the flawed names of the past and change those names that are offensive. However, there is an absurdity that has unfortunately crept into these well-intended and necessary adjustments, namely a group who believe that all names that could be interpreted as white – and especially as Afrikaans – must be changed.

It is true that new leaders throughout the history of the world tend to replace the names of former heroes and leaders with the names of their own heroes and leaders – and this is probably understandable. However, the tendency to want to change everything is completely incomprehensible, indefensible and certainly counter-productive as far as heritage preservation in particular is concerned.]

Invariably one finds that some historical event is attached to a given heritage from which it derives its name and not by deliberate naming. However, by deliberately deleting and replacing such a name, nothing honourable is created and nobody is really honoured.

Let me use the example of one of the most beautiful natural sites in the world, namely the Blyde River Canyon and the Blyde River Canyon Nature Reserve in Mpumalanga, both of which derive their names from the Blyde River that runs through the canyon.

This river was so named because of the immense happiness of the wives and children of the Voortrekker group of Andries Potgieter when they realised that their men, both white and black, had not perished during a reconnaissance trip to Delagoa Bay, as they had thought, but were indeed alive and well - a heart-rending, true African story with a beautiful ending, which now lends its name to a beautiful natural heritage.

I, along with many groups and organisations, pleaded for the name of the Blyde River Canyon to be preserved. It is a canyon which is the third largest in the world and which is visited by more than a million tourists and known throughout the world as the Blyde River Canyon. But this was not to be; the then chairperson of the National Geographical Names Council, Tommy Ntsewa, got his teeth into it and would not budge.

This living heritage is now called by some obscure name, totally against the wishes of the local people and despite the objections of the tourism industry. Very few people in South Africa, let alone the thousands of overseas tourists, would have any idea of where the Molatse or Dirty River Canyon is and it will take many years to restore the value of the area as a living heritage.

We are doing many things in order to promote and preserve our living heritage correctly, but this is one example of many . . . [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P Hollander): Thank you, hon member, your time has expired.

Mr A WATSON: I have 20 seconds left on my watch.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Madam Chairperson, on a point of order: Lorenzo Marques changed to Maputo, and we have seen increasing numbers of tourists going to Maputo and also investing in Mozambique. That is why it is classified as one of the countries with the fastest growing economy, and that is in contrast with what the member is saying.

Mr A WATSON: Chair, I have a paragraph that I would like to end with. It is very short. I know that many of you hon members of this House also do not agree with these steamroller trends in name changing, and that you certainly did not agree with Mr Ntsewa. Happily he has realised that he has done enough damage to our history and heritage and has fled from the committee to a cushy job in the mining industry. I sincerely hope he stays there. [Laughter.]

Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Madam Chair, the Coat of Arms of South Africa in the old Union of South Africa, as well as in the Republic of South Africa, had the words Ex Unitate Vires in Latin, which means: Uit eenheid krag. [From unity, strength.] The new motto on the Coat of Arms of the Republic of South Africa, and I translate it into English – I can’t even pronounce the Khoisan –means diverse people unite. This, in effect, means the same.

These are the three main events in the history of South Africa. There are paintings of two of these events: a painting of the Union of South Africa, which came into being in this very Chamber, and which is commemorated on that plaque over there, and a painting of that one; there is also a painting of the coming into being of the Republic of South Africa in 1961, but these two paintings have been removed.

There is, however, no painting depicting the 1994 events. There is, though, a photograph – actually two photographs – hidden away under the chairs, Mr Minister, where the old mace is being kept. And I wonder whether it wouldn’t be possible to pick one of those two photographs – I think it was the last event that the then President Mandela addressed, a combined session of the two Chambers, in 1999, somewhere in February, I think. Is it possible to have a painting of that particular event, or maybe something similar where the major role-players, or just one of the major role- players, at that stage – the then President Mandela – addressed a combined session of Parliament? Then after that – my request to the hon Minister – could we not display all three major events, starting with the Union of South Africa; the Republic of South Africa pre-1994; and then the 1999 event where Mr Mandela addressed both Chambers? Thank you, Madam Chair.

Nkk J N VILAKAZI: Mphathisihlalo ohloniphekileyo, abahlonishwa abakhona phakathi kwethu neNdlu yonke, inyanga kaSeptemba iyigugu kithi ngoba kulapho sikhumbula khona amasiko nemvelaphi yethu. Uma ungakabi nayo imvunulo yomdabu ozigqaja ngayo kule nyanga, bhasobha washiywa, ususele. Siya phambili thina.

Asikho isizwe esingenawo umlando namagugu emvelo esiziqhenya ngawo. Abamhlophe abafika nevangeli bafika babukela phansi konke okuhle esasikwenza, nathi sakholwa ukuthi impela kubi okwethu kuhle okwezifiki kanti lutho-ke ushaye phansi kwashunqa uthuli. Okungapheli kuyahlola! (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Hon Chairperson, protocol observed and the House at large, this month is valued by us because it is when we celebrate our cultural heritage. If, in this month, you do not have traditional attire in which you take pride, watch out, you are being left behind while we move forward.

There is no nation that does not have history and cultural heritage of which it is proud. The whites came with their evangelism, which undermined all the good things that we were doing, and as a result we were made to believe that our cultures were bad and that the good ones were those of the foreigners, which is wrong. Nothing lasts forever!]

What is ours is precious and nobody should remove it from us. Never! That is, then, the African Renaissance, the honouring of our culture, values and norms of our society in an endeavour to promote our democracy. This is the core of our rich heritage that we celebrate today.

Isizwe esingenamasiko akusona isizwe kahle leso. Asinalo uphawu, asinalo futhi imuva nephambili. [A nation without a culture is not a complete nation. It does not have an identity, it does not have either a past or a future.]

Our history is the backbone of moving from the past to the future, with pride and dignity, in the development of our society.

IsiZulu sami siyalusho uphawu lwami, siyayisho imvelaphi yami. Ukugqoka kwami nakho kuyasho ukuthi ngingowaphi ngivelaphi. Ukuxubaxuba-ke ngokwezinye izizwe nakho kuhle kakhulu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[My Zulu language is my identity; it is what makes me original. My attire signifies my background. The mixture of dress styles of other nations is also very good.]

Variety is the spice of life and therefore democracy must promote freedom of choice by all means, at all times and at all costs. At all levels, we must maintain it. That is democracy in the true sense of the word.

Isiko lomhlaba elinye lamagugu esizwe samaZulu lapho sibona khona ubuhle bemvelo, amatshitshi ethwele umhlanga ekhombisa ubuntombi bawo. Abanye bayakunximfela lobu buhle sebekhangwe amanye amasiko kanti qha yinhle lento, ayidingi ukoniwa. Songa isizwe sethu silekelela izintombi ukuzigqaja ngobuntombi bazo. Yisiko elihle leli. Onobuhle besimanjemanje siyabajabulela beviliyela esteji benqunu kukhethwa onobuhle kunjeyaya. Pho yindaba kabani uma amatshitshi esizwe enza into yawo! Sithanda okwezizwe? Yinhle lento ayidingi ukoniwa. Amagugu emvelo adinga ukuhlonishwa. Ongalithandi, aliphoqi muntu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[The reed dance is a heritage of the Zulu nation, which is where we observe natural beauty, young girls carrying reeds to demonstrate their virginity. Others look down on this beauty as they have assimilated other cultures, but this is a beautiful thing that should not be spoilt. We preserve our nation by helping young girls to be proud of their virginity. This is really a good culture. We appreciate it when the beauty contestants go onto the stage and walk down the ramp when they are contesting for beauty queen. So, who cares whether young girls practise their culture? Do we like foreign cultures? This is marvellous, we should not spoil it. The heritage should be respected. The culture does not force those who do not appreciate it.] It exercises the freedom of choice in its true perspective.

Ulimi lomdabu useke wakhuluma ngalo umhlonishwa uNgqongqoshe. Bakhulumile abanye ngokudla yingako ngikuyeka mina ngisika okwami. Ulimi lomdabu lunenkululeko epheleleyo, alukho futhi olunye ulimi engingazigqaja ngalo ukwedlula olwami. Kuhle futhi ukuzazi ezinye izilimi. Lokho kungumqondo ophusileyo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[The hon Minister has spoken about the language issue. Others have spoken about indigenous food, which is why I have chosen my own angle. Indigenous languages have every right; I cannot be proud of any language other than my own. It is a good thing to know other languages. That is a good idea.]

We must avoid stereotyping at all costs, so as to be broadminded and knowledgeable to the optimal level.

Ulimi lomdabu ludinga ukugcinwa lwaziwe futhi lungubuntu bethu lona. Olubukela phansi uzibukela phansi yena uqobo lwakhe.

Imvelo yethu ibanzi kakhulu. Ngithe angithi nje phezulu, ngeke ngiyiqede, kuningi kakhulu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Indigenous languages should be promoted because they symbolise our identity. Whoever looks down on them looks down on himself.

Our history is very deep. However, I have just highlighted the main areas. I will be unable to say it all. There are so many things to say.]

On behalf of the IFP, let us rise and shine in maintaining our rich heritage at all costs.

Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, egameni leqembu lami iNkatha Freedom Party, Angubuntu bethu uqobo. Ngiyabonga. [Hon Chairperson, on behalf of the Inkatha Freedom Party, indigenous languages are our identity. Thank you.]

Ms F MAZIBUKO: Ngalo nyaka Sihlalo, kule nyanga, ngaphansi kwesihloko esithi . . . [This year, Chairperson, this month, we are . .. ]

. . . celebrating our living heritage, celebrating our indigenous foods, knowledge and languages. Maye! Kumnandi ukuhlala lapha eNingizimu Afrika ngoba siyizinhlanga ezahlukene kunabelungu, amaBhunu, amaPutukezi, kunabeSuthu, kunamaXhosa, kunamaZulu, amaNdebele, amaSwazi, amaVenda namaSan, sibe notsotsi khona lapho. Zonke lezi zinhlanga zidabuka kwezinye. Kudalo bekuthiwa kunabaNguni nabeTswana. Bonke laba Bantu beza lapha eNingizimu Afrika ngoba belusa izinkomo. Bafika bakha. AmaSan wona ayehamba ezingela izinyamazane.

Ulwazi oluqukethwe yizinzululwazi lukhulu ngoba kuningi okwakwenziwa ngalezo zinkathi kodwa umlando obhaliwe awukuvezi lokhu. Umlando obhaliwe usitshela ukuthi iNingizimu Afrika yaqala ngokufika kukaJan van Riebeeck ngo-1652. Kule nyanga sizama ukuphakamisa izinhlobo ezehlukene zokudla esikudlayo njengabantu balapha eNingizimu Afrika. Sidla izinhlobonhlobo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Good gracious! It’s nice to live in South Africa, because we are from different races, whites, Afrikaners, Portuguese, Sothos, Xhosas, Zulus, Ndebeles, Swazis, Vendas, and San people and we also have tsotsis in our midst. All these races are interrelated. Previously people were divided between the Ngunis and the Tswanas. All these people arrived here in South Africa as herdsmen. They then built houses. The San people were nomadic, living on the deer they hunted.

There is a lot of information regarding what happened during those times but, sadly, the written history does not reveal that. Written history tells us that South Africa started existing at the arrival of Jan van Riebeeck in

1. In this month we are trying to promote the food that we as the people of South Africa eat. We eat various kinds of foods.]

Modulasetulo, pele ke tswela pele, ke ya tjho, ke re re ne re na le sehwapa, seo kajeno ho seng ho thwe ke biltong. Re ne re omisa ditholwana, empa kajeno ho se ho thwe ke dried fruit, mme re a di reka. Bana ba rona ho ne ho thwe ba na le hlohwana, mme re ne re ba nwesa meriana ya Sesotho. Kajeno re ba isa dingakeng sa sekgowa kapa re re ba loilwe. (Translation of Sesotho paragraph follows.)

[Chairperson, before I proceed, I maintain that we had ”sehwapa”, which is now known as “biltong”. We used to make ”mangangajane”, and today this is called “dried fruit”, and we buy it. Whenever our children suffered from headaches, we administered traditional medicines to them, but today we take them to doctors with Western education and when there is no improvement, we say they are bewitched.]

Our heritage is fast disappearing, and with elders passing away, we need to share this information with our children. Our elders knew handicrafts and various grasses and reeds. Let us replant and multiply our indigenous wild fruits like mmilo/mmupudu, so that we can know them.

Ulimi esilusebenzisa kakhulu namuhla yilolu lukaJoji okanye lendlovukazi yamaNgisi. Noma nje sikhuluma sisodwa sisebenzisa isiNgisi kepha ungeke uthole abelungu bekhuluma ngesiNtu sethu uma behlezi bodwa. Kanjalo nezingane zethu zikhuluma lokhu esithi yi-fake English abayikhuluma ngama- fake accent ngenxa yokubukela phansi ulimi lwethu nangokuthi babuke omabonakude ngaso sonke isikhathi. Asizikhuthaze izingane zethu ukuthi zilalele isiqephu somdlalo woKhozi FM noma kuMotsweding nakuMhlobo Wenene. Kumele thina sizigqaje ngezilimi zethu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[The commonly used language now is English or “the Queen’s language”. Even if we have a conversation amongst ourselves we use English, but you don’t find white people talking in an African language when they are together. Even our own children speak what we call “fake English”, speaking in a fake accent, because they undervalue our African languages and they also watch television all the time. Let us encourage our children to listen to radio dramas from Khozi FM, Motsweding FM and Mhlobo Wenene FM. We need to be proud of our languages.]

Let us go back to our roots and be disciplined.

Ka Setswana ga twe, maropeng go a boelwa. Go sa boelweng, ke maleng. [There is a Setswana saying that one should not be afraid of returning to the old style of doing things if the modern style is not working out.]

What is also important is the coincidence of our heritage month with the African New Year.

Ngokomlando umhla ka-24 Septemba yilokhu esasikubiza ngokuthi yiShaka’s Day kepha namuhla sithi yiHeritage Day. [Historically the 24th of September was called Shaka’s Day, but today it is called Heritage Day.]

We should not lose sight of the fact that more than 300 years ago, African people were treated as sub-humans and described as “bobbejane” [baboons]. In African spirituality and indigenous knowledge systems, as Africans, we need to recognise and acknowledge both the material and spiritual aspects of our human existence. The anthropologists seem to recognise only materialistic aspects of our human existence.

In this day and age, when our society is suffering from extreme moral and social degeneration, we cannot afford, as people, to ignore the wisdom of our ancestors, who taught us that the human personality is both mortal and immortal. All African communities in Southern Africa trace back their roots to the area of the Great Lakes, also known as Phut. Even ancient Ethiopians, the forebears of the ancient Egypt, also trace their ancestry to the same area. There is therefore only one cradle of African cultural history, which is popularly known as the regal culture.

During biblical times, the cultural history of Africa was based on Meroe, Napata and Axum. The history and religion of these black African kingdoms is recorded and is available, but our colonial educators kept it away from African students. We need to rewrite and teach the authentic cultural history of black Africa, instead of the colonial version that we were taught at school. Hopefully, even the new curriculum will teach our children our own history.

Uma sengiphetha Sihlalo, ngithi izilimi zethu zibalulekile yingakho ngithi kufuneka sizigqaje ngazo lezi zilimi zethu ngoba kunezisho ezimnandi. Kukhona oqhude manikiniki, kukhona odudlu ntombi. Kuningi kuyashiwo uma ngabe abesilisa befuna ukushela. Ngaleziya zikhathi kusenemifula. Manje imifula ayisekho sebeshela emabhodlelastolo. [Uhleko.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[In conclusion, Chairperson, I want to say that our languages are important. The reason we should be proud of our languages is because they are rich in proverbial sayings. We have sayings like “Qhude manikiniki” [if the two people fighting are equals having a fair fight, let them fight] and “Dudlu ntombi” [expression of interest in a young, unmarried, marriageable, beautiful girl by a would-be suitor]. There are many expressions men can use when they woo women. During those times prospective suitors would wait for women on the banks of rivers. There are no more rivers now, so they wait for them in bottle stores. [Laughter.]]

Even in English, they sometimes say: gone are the days when girls used to cook like their mothers; now they drink like their fathers. [Laughter.]

I wish to call upon all members to celebrate our heritage month festivities, in a manner befitting it.

Masikhuthazane ukuxoxa izinganekwane, sidlale imidlalo yendabuko njengamagendi, ingqathu nomlabalaba sigide kube mnandi, sifinye ngendololwane. Emakhaya sidle imifino, amanqina, iskobho, amasonja, itingi nomngqusho. Masiyeke ukudla kwaMacdonald amashipsi. Ukudla okweza ngesikebhe lokho. Ngiyabonga Sihlalo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Let us encourage storytelling, and play traditional games like ”magendi” [stone game] , ”ingqathu” [rope-jumping game] and “morabaraba” [a game of noughts and crosses] while everyone is nice and enjoy themselves. At our homes we should eat ”imifino” [green vegetables], ”amanqina” [sticky and spiced boiled hoof of a cow, sheep or pig), ”isikobho” [tripe], ”amasonja “[mopane worms], ”itingi” and ”umngqusho” [samp and beans]. Let us refrain from eating chips from MacDonald’s. That is foreign food. I thank you, Chairperson.]

The MINISTER OF ARTS AND CULTURE: Thank you, Madam Chair. I want to thank all the hon members who participated in the debate. There are a couple of points that were made by the hon members which I would like to pick up on, not so much to take issue with them, but perhaps to explain some things and also to expand on some of the very issues that they raised.

I am very pleased that hon members raised the issue of the commercial exploitation of indigenous foodstuffs. In fact, hon members and those who do make it to Taung on 24 September will see that there are a number of projects which are already on screen, where indigenous foods are being commercially exploited. We have one such project in Mangaung, near Bloemfontein, there is another in KwaZulu-Natal, and there is another in Limpopo province.

Very soon one will be able to walk into Pick ‘n Pay and Woolworths and get these off the shelf. When you visit other countries you might even be able to do that over there. This does not only refer to indigenous foods that are specifically African. This refers to indigenous foods as indigenous foods have evolved. Which is why it is important for us to try to grasp what the motto on our Coat of Arms is saying.

I suppose, literally translated, it does mean, “diverse people unite”, but I think the idiomatic translation of it is “Unity in diversity”. Unity in diversity is one of the strengths of a country such as ours. That unity in diversity expresses itself also, precisely, in our food.

I had an amusing incident, just now before I came here, having a discussion with one of the people who is working with us on this occasion for the 24th, and there was a word there that they had in the briefing, “amankinati”. I said: “Amankinati? Hini leyo?” [Amankinathi? What’s that?] She said: “No, those are peanuts.” I said: “Sisintu leso?” [Is that an African language?] She said: “Ewe, amankinati.” [Yes, amankinati.] I said: “No, no, no. That is a completely borrowed word.” Because, you see, when we were growing up, they used to be referred to not as peanuts, but as monkey nuts. Therefore “amankinati” is “monkey nuts”, but transposed into Nguni as “amankinati”, as if to suggest that one peanut is “inkinati”. That tells you something about what happens with all human cultures.

It is unavoidable when there is contact between culture group A and culture group B that things rub off on each other. There is nothing wrong with that, there is nothing bad about that and, in fact, this is a very good thing.

The actual Nguni word is amandongomani. The irony, of course, is that peanuts are a specifically African crop, which has been exported to the rest of the world, but because of the cultural contact, people ended up calling them amankinati. There is nothing wrong with that, either. It just surprised me because I had never come across it before.

Equally, when we look at all these various aspects of culture, we must not be surprised if people borrow from this, drop that, borrow from that, drop this here. And it happens across the board.

There is a food that is cooked here in the Western Cape, which people call bobotie. Go to the Netherlands, and you will never find bobotie. Go also to Malaysia, you won’t find bobotie. But bobotie is a consequence of contact between people from Malaysia and people from the Netherlands here, in the Western Cape. Out came something new, bobotie, and it is now seen as an Afrikaner food. Is it? Is it not? Well, it is a South African food, in any case.

That is what happens when cultural contact happens between people. We cannot say that it is bad, unless we want to live in little, isolated cloisters. That is the only way you can preserve yourself against influences from outside, isolated cloisters.

The cultural interpenetration is part of living heritage, not something to be shunned, not something to be despised. Equally, we must also understand that time does not stand still. There is not a single cultural community in the world, which has been frozen in time. Therefore you will say, “These are our ways of doing things.” You will find that what you think of as “our” ways of doing things are so universal, they don’t belong to you. They belong to everybody.

What has happened over time is that people have borrowed from elsewhere, and learned some new things. There is nothing wrong in that either. That is progress, and that is the price of progress.

In the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries when our African ancestors lived, there was no Pick ‘n Pay, and there was no Woolworths. Today we have them, and I want to see those African indigenous foods in Pick ‘n Pay. Are we going to say that because our ancestors didn’t have Pick ‘n Pay we shouldn’t have it? Obviously, we cannot.

There is one other point I want to pick up. This is the one about name changes, which I think is being blown out of proportion. I don’t know why. If we look at the map of South Africa, beginning with the name, as a starting point, any map of South Africa today, I don’t think what Mr Watson was saying about trying to obliterate every name that is Afrikaans or English can actually stand up to close scrutiny. That is not what is happening.

The majority of names on the map are still of foreign derivation. Let us remember also that many of the names and many of the places where indigenous names were substituted by European names, continued to be used by indigenous people. They never adopted the European names. I would never refer to the place that you find on the map referred to as Stutterheim, as Stutterheim. I call it Cumakala, because that is its name and everyone who speaks that particular language has always called it that. They won’t stop.

You will notice that we haven’t changed the name to Cumakala yet; it is still Stutterheim today. It is still Stutterheim on the maps. Therefore it is not true that everything that has to do with the heritage of whites is being obliterated. Let us not exaggerate, where we have a case, we should make a case, but no one does a good cause more harm than he who exaggerates. If you overstate it, then we dismiss what you are saying, even what is sensible, as nonsense.

Lastly, the other point which I would like to take up is, yes, maybe we should produce, as Dr Van Heerden has suggested, a painting to commemorate the events of 1994. I am not sure that everyone would agree with him about the significance of the Union and the Republic. Maybe that is a debate for another day.

In any case, hon Van Heerden, it is not my job as a Minister of Arts and Culture to tell Parliament what to put on display and what not to put on display. I think, actually, it is your job as parliamentarians. There is a Rules committee which deals with such matters. If people feel that there should be something like that, they should proceed and put that on the agenda of the Rules committee.

What I want to say in closing the debate is that I am very happy that there seems to be a growing consensus among South Africans about what is important in our heritage. If that assists to build social cohesion and the unity of our nation, I am extremely grateful. Thank you, Madam Chairperson. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The CHAIPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Siyabonga Ngqongqoshe wezoBuciko namaSiko. Sibonga ukuthi ube nathi kule Ndlu ngenkathi sigquqguzela ukuthi mazibuye emasisweni. [Thank you, Minister of Arts and Culture. We thank you for being present in this House at a time when we are encouraging people about going back to their roots.]

Hon members, I am informed that there will be one speakers’ list for the second and third Orders of the Day. I am further informed that the report of the Select Committee on Education and Recreation has been distributed to the members in this House. I therefore call the Secretary to read the second and third Orders of the Day.

                  OVERSIGHT VISITS TO NORTHERN CAPE

(Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Social Services, and   Consideration of Report of Select Committee on Education and Recreation)

Ms J M MASILO: Modulasetulo yo o tlotlegang, badirimmogo ka nna . . [Hon Chairperson, my colleagues . . .]

. . . from 8 August to 12 August 2005 the Select Committee on Social Services undertook a study tour to the Northern Cape province to conduct oversight of the management and quality of services rendered in respect of health, social development and Home Affairs; to inspect various health, social development and Home Affairs facilities in order to determine the state of their physical infrastructure and equipment; and to identify progress made and challenges experienced by all stakeholders and the departments.

During the visit the committee held meetings with the MEC and the heads of the departments of Health and Social Development, and Home Affairs respectively, with regional managers of health and social development in the Northern Cape province and regional managers of Home Affairs. Site visits were undertaken to the provincial hospital, health centres, social services centres and Home Affairs regional offices.

Concerning the provincial department of social development, the province appears to be making progress with regard to the upgrading of social security paypoints. At all paypoints there were ablution facilities, cover tents for the beneficiaries and water. These paypoints were in a 5km radius from the beneficiaries. The provincial departments are working with local government and churches in various areas to further upgrade these paypoints.

The department or the service provider also provide the disabled and the needy with wheelchairs. The department stated that on the day of payouts to beneficiaries, the paypoints begin at eight in the morning and by 11 am all paypoints are finished with payments to beneficiaries.

There is security at these paypoints and they are fenced. Community volunteers are present and they are trained in customer care, which is provided for by the service providers, CPS. There are some best practices with regard to community participation, improving service delivery at paypoints such as in the Kgalagadi district municipality where welfare and pension committees at all paypoints are managed by volunteers of six to 10 people per paypoint. The provincial department has also managed to reduce its backlog with regard to the processing of grant applications from 16 000 to 2 000. Some of the problems encountered relating to foster care grants are the shortages of social workers and vehicles for social workers, and, in the Frances Baard region, the children’s court is booked up until November for foster care placement.

The Frances Baard district has a child forum where they meet to discuss problems and bottlenecks in the department of justice. The province’s professional foster care programme is rated as the best practice model in the country for family preservation. The Isobalantwana Project and the Neighbour-Helping-Neighbour campaign have been rolled out to several towns in support of vulnerable children.

With regard to social development centres, a variety of centres are funded by the provincial department of social services and population development in the Northern Cape, ranging from community centres to old age homes and places of safety. Funding has been allocated for a 25-seater bus, office equipment of R340 000, the renovation of homes and the construction of a 200-seater hall in the amount of R2 million. This forms part of the transformation of services for the elderly and people with disabilities in order to provide infrastructure for the implementation of community-based services.

With regard to the provincial department of health, the Northern Cape has the second lowest HIV level of prevalence by province among antenatal clinic attendees in the country. In terms of HIV/Aids, a package of services is rendered with voluntary counselling and testing, the prevention of mother-to-child transmission, antiretroviral therapy and home-based care.

With regard to the termination of pregnancy – Top - there is currently no staff interest in the Kgalagadi district in order for there to be training in Top. The same applies to the Frances Baard District Municipality, Kimberley, where the region had two nurses performing Top. The nurses did not want to render this service any longer, one of the reasons being that they had to perform this service on young girls – in some cases, two to three times on one girl.

With regard to the hospital revitalisation programme, it is making good progress in the province. Two level-one facilities have been completed in Colesberg and Calvinia. There is a lack of personnel, especially of nurses, in the province. This is also the reason why there are no clinics that operate 24 hours a day.

The Manne Dipico Hospital was not on the programme of the committee, but after visiting the hospital the delegation was highly impressed with developments. The Manne Dipico Hospital is a hospital that is part of the revitalisation programme of the Department of Health. This hospital is a centre of best practice with multiskilled staff, multiskilled in the sense of being able to render all the services that are rendered by a level-one hospital around the clock.

Concerning health centres and clinics, the health facilities in the Northern Cape have made progress with regard to the roll-out of antiretroviral therapy.

With regard to the Department of Home Affairs’ regional offices, the physical infrastructure at the Home Affairs’ offices that the committee visited is accessed easily by the physically challenged. Various mechanisms are in place to ensure that clients receive their IDs, and can hold community meetings, imbizos, mobilise in that they do door-to-door deliveries and advertise in local newspapers in order for the people to collect their IDs.

The province also has an IT technician that assists all the offices as far as Springbok. Previously, the office had to contact head office in Pretoria and wait for a technician to be called out. The Select Committee on Social Services applauds the department on this initiative.

Regional offices are faced with a critical shortage of staff in Kimberley, especially after the suspension of six officials on ID fraud practices. The office still manages to open on Saturdays on a voluntary basis without any remuneration for staff. While taking a tour of the Kimberley regional offices, the committee observed that even on a Friday morning there were no long queues at client service centres, which is a very good practice in Kimberley.

As a recommendation, the committee undertook to make follow-up visits to the province in order to provide oversight and monitor progress made with regard to some of the challenges raised by stakeholders during the oversight visit. The committee also undertook to take up some of the issues raised with the relevant departments and it will continue to provide oversight on departmental strategic plans to ensure that the relevant issues are taken up in strategic and operational plans.

In conclusion, I would like to thank hon members for sacrificing their time in travelling about 400km even after hours from one region to another, and also for starting to work as early as seven o’clock in the morning owing to the vastness of the province, as we all know. I thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

Mr B J TOLO: Chairperson and hon members, the select committee on education, arts and culture, sport and recreation, undertook an oversight visit to the Northern Cape between 7 and 8 September 2005. We decided to go to the northernmost rural area of the Northern Cape, the district called the Richtersveld. This district includes small towns such as Port Nolloth, Steinkopff, Springbok and Gariep.

Our aim was to see how government policies and programmes were being implemented in the province and what challenges the province faced in the field of education, arts and culture, sport and recreation. To realise the above objective, we met with the MECs for education, and for arts and culture, heads of both departments, district officials, principals and teachers at schools that we visited.

As a committee, we were joined by our counterparts from the Northern Cape legislature. They were the hon Williams – chairperson of the education committee in the province - hon member Tsikwe and the hon De Beer. We must hasten to say that all these stakeholders were more than co-operative in enabling us to have a fair assessment of the situation, and especially in the district that we visited. In all our deliberations and site visits we were convinced that the Northern Cape province was indeed a province at work to better the lives of its people.

Regarding the issue of education, the Richtersveld district is a vast but sparsely populated area. Therefore the schools are small and the biggest in the area is Port Nolloth Primary School with only 568 learners and a staff of about 18 teachers. Due to the small number of learners in these schools and the fact that all grades are found even within this small number of learners, it has necessitated multigrade classrooms.

Hon members will agree that multigrade classrooms are not desirable. Therefore the plea is that in these types of conditions the national norms in terms of the teacher-learner ratio should not apply so that the area can get more teachers. This will also allow a possibility that the non- Afrikaans Grade R learners are taught in their mother tongue. This is a plea from almost all the schools we visited in the area.

We can confirm here and now that in this area or district there were no learners under trees, although Port Nolloth High School has a few mobile classrooms that focus on adult basic education and training, Abet. Adult basic education and training is a serious challenge in many provinces in the country. This programme has always been a stepchild of departments of education. In the Richtersveld area, due to the existence of very small villages, it is not very easy to sustain adult basic education programmes.

In the district that we visited there was only one centre for adult basic education and training, which catered for the Port Nolloth and Sizamele areas - Sizamele is a township of the town of Port Nolloth. The total number of learners was 16 and their ages ranged from 17 to 54 years of age. The MEC and departmental officials assured us that they would try to revitalise these programmes in villages like Kuboes, Sanddrift, Lekkersing and Eksteenfontein.

What is encouraging is that Abet practitioners are given yearly contracts that are renewable when the situation allows it. This is very important because in other provinces, due to fluidity of the situation, these practitioners are only on monthly contracts. Therefore it means that Abet teachers in the Northern Cape can at least plan for a year rather than monthly, as it happens in other provinces.

Early childhood development, ECD, is an important programme in the Northern Cape department of education. This programme was well and alive in the Richtersveld district. In this district, there were seven ECD centres in seven primary schools and there were eight Grade R classes. The challenges facing ECD were as follows: shortage of learner support material; shortage of Nama, Xhosa and English teachers to the detriment of children whose mother tongues are the languages mentioned above; and vast distances that lead to teachers being unable to attend courses on ECD programmes.

The district under review had one HIV co-ordinator who worked hand in hand with schools. Their programmes focused on life skills and peer group education. Schools have a programme called “cycle of care”, and this seeks to build a network of support with relevant state departments. The challenge in this area was a shortage of youth-friendly clinics that provided voluntary testing and counselling in the far-flung areas.

The National School Nutrition Programme was the most successful programme of the department of education in that province. The programme was not only decentralised to schools but it had also been extended to reach even learners in high schools. Therefore we can say that all deserving children, whether in a primary or secondary school, did benefit from this programme. This is an achievement that you cannot think of in other provinces.

Some schools did have vegetable gardens whilst others did not have them due to the following challenges: salty water that negatively affects plants growth; poor soil conditions – we will remember that that area is almost a semidesert; and unfenced schools, making it very difficult to have protected gardens.

Regarding the school fees exemption policy, it does look like most of the schools applied it on an ad hoc basis or just did not follow the principles or the policy. Out of all the schools we visited, only one – Port Nolloth High - could give us names of students who were exempted from paying school fees due to the fact that parents could not afford it.

Like in all other provinces, the departments of sport, arts and culture are seriously underfunded. This is due to the many competing challenges that provinces are faced with. We understand this, but we cannot condone it. When it comes to sport, we were informed that there was collaboration between the Department of Sport, the Department of Arts and Culture and the Department of Education. This collaboration will enhance participation of learners in sport in schools, through a programme called “mass participation”.

We had an opportunity to visit a mass participation centre in Port Nolloth. There were four activity co-ordinators in the following sports codes: netball, soccer, cricket and volleyball. We want to say that while this is called a mass participation programme, it is impossible for real mass participation to be realised. This is due to a serious shortage of equipment. For example, regarding 45 participants in soccer, whom we met, there were only two soccer balls; in volleyball, for about 30 participants there was only one ball. We call upon Sport and Recreation SA to make enough equipment available for different sporting codes in order for us to realise real mass participation in sport.

We also visited arts and culture projects in the district. It is our belief that if these are properly marketed, they can better the lives of the people involved in them.

The district is very rich in Nama culture and heritage. The Kinderlê Memorial in Steinkopff is a painful sight – a mass grave of Nama children who were murdered more than 160 years ago. This place is preserved as a heritage site, which the Namas hold close to their hearts.

In conclusion, we want to state that it is our well-considered view that the Northern Cape government is doing very well to better the lives of the people through education. In the same breath, from the bottom of our hearts, we want to thank both the MEC for education, hon Lucas, and the MEC for sport and culture, hon Molusi, and all other officials for having put time aside to engage and create an environment conducive for us to do our work.

Today, as we stand here, we can still see images of the Nama women and children who welcomed us with Nama songs and dances at places like Steven Malherbe Primary School, Lekkersing Primary School and Eksteenfontein. I must also say that those images will not be deleted from our minds. We urge this House to adopt this report and the recommendations thereof. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms H LAMOELA: Madam Deputy Chair and hon members, the purpose of the study tour undertaken by the Select Committee on Social Services was to exercise its oversight functions as mandated by the Constitution.

Hoewel die Noord-Kaap die grootste provinsie in Suid-Afrika is, het dit ’n bevolking van slegs 984 327. Die Noord-Kaap word verdeel in twee streke, naamlik Kimberley en Upington. Pogings deur die Departement van Binnelandse Sake om so produktief moontlik te wees, het te weeg gebring dat die afstand wat die betrokke amptenare in die Noord-Kaap aflê plus minus 65 267 kilometer per maand beloop.

Dit is ’n geweldige bron van kommer, en ’n mens wonder waarom die mobiele eenhede wat reeds in Junie 2004 aan die kantoor voorsien is om tekortkominge van kantore aan te vul nog nie hierdie streek bereik het nie. Mobiele eenhede is tog veel bekostigbaarder, effektiewer en individuvriendeliker as die satelietkantore, wat beoog word vir Postmasburg en Prieska, en dus groter addisionele fondse verg. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Although the Northern Cape is the largest province in South Africa, it has a population of only 984 327. The Northern Cape is divided into two regions, namely Kimberley and Upington. Efforts by the Department of Home Affairs to be as productive as possible, have resulted in the distance that the relevant officials in the Northern Cape travel amounting to approximately 65 267 kilometres per month.

This gives tremendous cause for concern, and one wonders why the mobile units that were issued to the office as long as June 2004 to augment shortcomings of offices have not yet reached this region. Mobile units are so much more affordable, effective and individual-friendly than the satellite offices that are proposed for Postmasburg and Prieska, which would require further additional funding.]

I therefore want to suggest that the issue of mobile units in the province be raised and discussed with the top management of the Department of Home Affairs. Staff shortages are still hampering effective and efficient service delivery, and the approval and appointment of more permanent staff members are urgent needs. Due to corruption in the Kimberley Home Affairs office there is a huge vacuum in management with a deputy director, assistant director and three senior administrative officer posts still vacant. This places a heavy burden on the provincial manager and staff, and limits competency level.

Well done to Mr Yusuf Simons, the provincial manager of the province, for taking the initiative to embark on a project ensuring that Home Affairs offices become more accessible to the public through the extension of the operational hours.

All offices in the Northern Cape will be open to members of the public from 07:30 until 15:30. And offices are also open on Saturdays from 08:00 until 13:00. These working hours are all done on a voluntary basis and no overtime is being paid. Suggestions on this matter are that the department evaluates the situation in order to provide a special bonus or stipend to staff members working on a regular basis to enhance service delivery, provided that a visible improvement in services to the public is noticeable.

Home Affairs still has tremendous challenges such as, firstly, managing flexi hours with limited staff; secondly, vast distances peculiar to the Northern Cape; and thirdly, a huge vacuum in management due to corruption. Overall recommendations are that the Department of Home Affairs works hand in hand with Social Services to allow strategies to be implemented in order to achieve goals.

Although fraud and corruption are still hampering the progress of the Department of Social Services in the Northern Cape the department nevertheless made a concerted effort to roll out programmes to rural and vulnerable communities of the province. According to the MEC of the province: firstly, finances have stabilised; secondly, backlogs have been eradicated; and thirdly, staff are now more motivated than before.

Backlogs with regard to the grant processing applications were reduced from 16 000 to 2 000. Continuation of results as such should be ongoing to eradicate poor service delivery to the public.

The impact of the lack of social workers is a worrying factor, and the department should, firstly, look at better salaries; secondly, housing and rural allowances for social workers in the rural areas; and thirdly, with regards to the issue of childcare centres, the province unfortunately does not have a policy in place to deal with these issues.

Poverty relief programmes should be far more sustainable to reduce socio- economic problems leading to unemployment, poverty and HIV/Aids.

Security at paypoints is good and mostly all paypoints have now been fenced. Hopefully further shortcomings will be eradicated when Sassa becomes operational in 2006.

Regarding children and youth awaiting trial, the number of young people entering the criminal justice system in the province ranges from 279 to 290 per month. This is unacceptable seeing that there are social crime prevention or probation services in place, which render a holistic service to children.

Certain factors still influence access to grants such as, firstly, foreign documents in the cross border area which is very high; secondly, lack of IDs because of limited access to Home Affairs services - and here mobiles should really be considered; and thirdly, some farms still do not have access to Home Affairs services.

As regards mental health services, there is no organisation that exists for this service, and no investigation is in progress to assess the need for such a service because of a shortage of personnel.

Serious challenges that are still facing the province are: firstly, a shortage of staff in the departments; secondly, a shortage of office accommodation; thirdly, the high influx of applicants for disability grants; fourthly, foster care backlogs; fifthly, there are no appointed probation officers; and sixthly, a serious turnover of staff due to the fact that there is no retention strategy for people to stay in the area.

On health, one of the main challenges in ensuring access to quality health care in the Northern Cape is the fact that it is the largest province in South Africa with a low population spread across the province. Although the recruitment and retention strategy for professionals has been developed there is still a serious shortage of primary health care, senior health care and tertiary health care, as well as doctors in the province. I thank you.

Mr J O TLHAGALE: Hon Chair of Chairs, and hon members, the challenges of the Northern Cape are no different from those of other provinces. However, the province is moving ahead of others with its management of the national nutrition programme. It was gratifying to note that the department, by realigning its priorities and taking care of savings in other programmes, was able to extend the nutrition programme to include high school learners as the chairperson, Mr Tolo, has already indicated.

The Richtersveld region stretches over a large expanse of land. The distances to be travelled to various outlying destinations put financial pressures on the meagre resources, and possibly on other items of service delivery, and also on the lifespan of the vehicles used. The issue needs budgetary considerations.

Another challenge encountered by the smaller schools is the combination of two or three classes in one classroom. This is due to the enrolment of fewer learners in the various classes, but this is common to all provinces, especially in the farm schools. What happens is that there are a few learners who need to be taught in an indigenous language during their early years of schooling, as in the case of Port Nolloth High School, where they were unable to get an educator for the few learners for that particular language. I also need to point out that for the whole period . . .[Time expired.] Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Kort en saaklik. [Short and sweet.]

Chairperson of Committees, I don’t want to repeat what has already been said, because our two chairpersons dealt with these reports in detail. But, I think, there is something for all of us to learn out of this particular oversight visit, namely the fact that we have split ourselves up into two groups. The one section dealt with oversight regarding education, arts and culture, and they went to the Namaqualand area. The other group dealt with health, social services and so forth.

When we started with our oversight visits, what was quite interesting about the Northern Cape - and I am not bragging because I am from that province - was the fact that all the relevant MECs, four of them, got into their cars and met with the committees, wherever they were. The one part of the committee was in Namaqualand and the other was in De Aar. [Applause.]

They drove hundreds of kilometres just to go and give the committees an overview of what was happening in their respective departments. One can just hope and trust that all the other provinces will do exactly the same. That will assist us in our oversight work at the end of the day.

I don’t want to repeat what it has already been said, but allow me to highlight just a few issues. I would like to share some information with our hon members.

The Manne Dipico Hospital in Colesberg is a model hospital. There is not a single private hospital that can compete with that particular hospital, and this is part and parcel of the new programme that the department has implemented. We have built another such hospital in Calvinia as well. The place is so clean; you can eat your food from the floor. If you look at the equipment in that hospital, you’ll fall on your back.

So, I want to make use of this opportunity to invite all of you to go and visit the hospital in Calvinia and the one in Colesberg. I can recommend to all of you today that we need to implement that particular programme in all nine provinces. In terms of our budget, nationally, we are going to build a modern mental hospital in Kimberley and we are going to build another in Barkly West. We’re also going to build a hospital in De Aar, my hometown, to the value of R200 million - so, we know what to do with money. [Laughter.] If one looks at the allocation of the budget that we get in the province, you’ll find that we only get about two per cent of the national budget, but we know what to do with those moneys in our province. We use it effectively and we make sure that we put all the facilities there, especially for the poorest of the poor in the Northern Cape.

Just one more thing: I’m sitting here with two letters that were directed to the chairperson of our committee, the hon Joyce Masilo, and they relate to our oversight visits. They congratulate this committee for the work they have done by visiting some of these offices. Allow me to read from just one of them:

As the office of Home Affairs at a district level, we would like to express our appreciation and joy to the delegation from Parliament that visited our offices this year under the leadership of hon member Joyce Masilo.

As management, we don’t know what the delegation did to our Director- General, but what happened after your visit was that electrical repairs were done; defaults in the buildings of Home Affairs were fixed; internal security to the offices, new water coolers, computers and printers were supplied; cameras were installed; and so forth.

[Applause.] But allow me to read just the last sentence: At least we have witnessed that this government is a government for the people by the people. As management, we would like another visit at least on a six monthly basis so that we can feel the warmth and share our problems with our fellow comrade MPs.

This is what the letter is saying. It also says:

May God bless our Parliament as we approach the next municipal elections. We are doing our best in this office to register as many citizens as we possibly can and also to deliver the identity documents on a door-to-door basis during weekends.

This is the kind of co-operation that we are getting and these are the results that we get.

Thank you very much; I want to make use of this opportunity to propose to this House that it adopts these two reports. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you hon member. That concludes the debate. I shall now put the question in respect of the second Order. Order members! The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision has been dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegates are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all the delegation heads present?

HON MEMBERS: Yebo. [Yes.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish.

We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: Siyamkela ngezandla zozibini. [We accept it.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?

Ms N M MADLALA-MAGUBANE: Siyavuma. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal iyayixhasa. [KwaZulu-Natal supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?

Mr L M MOKOENA: Ha seketela. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?

Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Siyavuma. [We agree.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Support.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?

Rev P MOATSHE: Ke ya rona. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?

Mr N J MACK: Steun. [Supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

I shall now put the question in respect of the third Order. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all the delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present?

HON MEMBERS: Yes.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish.

We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. The delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: Siyayamkela. [We support it.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Steun. [Supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?

Ms N M MADLALA-MAGUBANE: Siyavuma. [We agree.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: Siyayamukela. [We support it.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?

Mr L M MOKOENA: Limpopo Steun. [Limpopo supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?

Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Mpumalanga supports.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Ka diatla tse pedi. [Supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?

Mr P MOATSHE: Ke ya rona. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?

Mr N J MACK: Steun. [Supports.]

The CHAIPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted. CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE - AGREEMENT BETWEEN GOVERNMENT OF RSA AND GOVERNMENT OF MALAYSIA FOR AVOIDANCE OF DOUBLE TAXATION AND PREVENTION OF FISCAL EVASION WITH RESPECT TO TAXES ON INCOME

Mr M O ROBERTSON: Chairperson, hon members, before I get down to the seriousness of the statement, I would like to say to my friend and comrade, the hon Sulliman, that it would appear to me that there are more hospitals and MECs than people in the Northern Cape. [Laughter.]

The purpose of this agreement is twofold: Firstly, it provides for the avoidance of double taxation; and secondly, it puts in place a mechanism for the exchange of information between the tax authorities in the two countries involved, namely South Africa and Malaysia.

This agreement concluded between the RSA and the government of Malaysia adheres to the key requirements of the Organisation for Economic Co- operation and Development, commonly know as the OECD. It is an organisation of 29 mainly industrial member countries.

In addition, the state law advisors from the Departments of Foreign Affairs and Justice have been consulted on these agreements. Article 10 of the agreement departs from the OECD model. It refers to dividends paid by a company, which is a resident of either South Africa or Malaysia.

The OECD model stipulates that the tax on dividends shall not exceed five per cent of the gross amount of the dividends if the beneficial owner is a company, which holds at least 25% of the capital of the company paying the dividends. If the beneficial owner of the company holds less than 25% of the capital then the tax on dividends ought to be 15% of the gross amount of the dividends.

However, the agreement between South Africa and Malaysia differs with the OECD model in the second components of taxes charged on dividends paid out. The agreement between Malaysia and South Africa stipulates that if the beneficial owner of the company holds less than 25% of the capital then the tax on dividends shall be 10% of the gross amount of the dividends. These limitations intend to encourage companies residing in South Africa to invest in companies residing in Malaysia, and vice versa.

In the light of the above we appeal to the House to adopt this agreement. I thank you.

Debate concluded.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all the delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces votes. Are all delegation heads present?

HON MEMBERS: Yes.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: In accordance with Rule 71 I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish.

We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: Siyayixhasa. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?

Ms N M MADLALA-MAGUBANE: Siyavuma. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Re a e thekga. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?

Ms F NYANDA: We support.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Siyavuma. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?

Rev P MOATSHE: Re ya e ananela. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?

Mr N J MACK: Support.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted. Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND RECREATION - STATUTE OF CENTRE FOR SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY OF NON-ALIGNED MOVEMENT AND OTHER DEVELOPING COUNTRIES

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, the Centre for Science and Technology for the Non-Aligned Movement and other developing countries came into existence as a follow-up to the deliberations of the 5th to 7th NAM summits held in Colombo in 1976, the one in Havana in 1979 and the one in New Delhi 1983. It was then set up in August 1989 in New Delhi in India.

The main objectives of the centre are: Firstly, to promote the fullest possible and mutually beneficial collaboration amongst scientists, organisations and institutions from non-aligned and other developing countries. Secondly, it acts as a cleaning house of information regarding the technological capabilities of the non-aligned and other developing countries with a view to promote scientific and technological co-operation and transfer of technology among them, and to provide early information about impending technological changes and seek to develop a data bank. Thirdly, it seeks to stimulate and promote joint research and development projects, training programmes on a bilateral and multilateral basis among the members of the centre in selected fields of special relevance and to render expert advise in the growth of science, development of technology, and the utilisation of natural resources.

Why should South Africa participate as a full member of the NAM science and technology centre? There are some compelling scientific, strategic and political reasons for South Africa to fully participate in the NAM science and technology centre.

The centre runs programmes of international workshops, expertise meetings, courses and training programmes that have the programmes of the developing countries in focus. In this respect, South Africa could benefit in sharing experiences and expertise. It is worth noting that some of the best expertise in areas such as indigenous knowledge systems, biotechnology, and software development reside within the NAM and in membership of its science and technology centre.

The NAM science and technology centre is a shining example of South Africa’s co-operation in science and technology development. South Africa, as one of the most technologically advanced nations in the developing world, in supporting efforts to enhance scientific research and technological development enhances its own stature within the developing world.

At the political level the country, particularly President Mbeki, has played a leading role within NAM since the advent of our democracy. Participating as a full member of one of its organs, namely the NAM science and technology centre, serves to extend our national foreign policy.

This is basically the purpose of this agreement. We would like to propose in terms of section 231(2) of the House that we adopt this agreement. Thank you very much.

Debate concluded.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Thank you, hon member. That concludes the debate. I shall now put the question and the question is that the report be adopted.

As this decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all the delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces votes. Are all delegation heads present?

HON MEMBERS: Yes.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: Siyayiseketela. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Free State?

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Gauteng?

Ms N M MADLALA-MAGUBANE: Siyavuma. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Limpopo?

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Siyayixhasa. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Mpumalanga?

Ms F NYANDA: Siyayivuma. [We support.] The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Northern Cape?

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Re a e thekga. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: North West?

Rev P MOATSHE: Yethu. [In support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: Western Cape?

Mr N J MACK: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES: All provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

The Council adjourned at 16:14. ____

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

TABLINGS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of the Financial and Fiscal Commission for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the financial statements for 2004-2005 [RP 67-2005].

2. The Minister of Education

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of National Student Financial Aid Scheme for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 179-2005]

3. The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism

   (a) Proposed exclusion of Portion 89 (a portion of Portion 63) of the farm Groenkloof 358 J.R., in extent 4484m2 from the Groenkloof National Park situated in the administrative district of Pretoria, Gauteng Province, tabled in terms of section 2(3) of the National Parks Act, 1976 (Act No 57 of 1976)

4. The Minister of Public Enterprises

   (a) Report and Financial Statements of Transnet Limited for 2004- 2005, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005.

5. The Minister of Transport

   a) Report and Financial Statements of the South African National Roads Agency Limited for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor- General on the Financial Statements and the Performance Information for 2004-2005.

   b) Report and Financial Statements of the South African Rail Commuter Corporation Limited for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005 [RP 148- 2005] c) Report of the Regulating Committee of the Airports Company of South Africa and the Air Navigation Services Company for 2004-2005.

   d) Report and Financial Statements of the Airports Company of South Africa Limited for 2004-2005, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2004-2005.

National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Finance

   (a) Provincial Budgets and Expenditure Review for 2001-2002 – 2007- 2008 [RP 08-2005].

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1.    Report of the Joint Budget Committee on National and Provincial
Expenditure for the period April to June 2005, dated 31 August 2005:


Part A: National Expenditure



Departments started the current financial year with a low expenditure
of 5% in April 2005, increasing sharply to 11.13% in May and decreasing
to 7% in June 2005.


The most notable difference between this report and the reports of  the
previous three financial years is the shift in  expenditure  trends  of
the  Departments  of  Communications   and   Foreign   Affairs.    Both
Departments  had  been  the  lowest  spenders  for  three   consecutive
financial years.  However, the trend  has  changed  in  this  financial
year.



Lowest Spending Departments as at 30 June 2005

Table 1

The Department of Provincial and Local Government was the lowest spending Department at the end of the first quarter despite the fact that it has spent three times more than its allocated capital budget already[1]. Statistics South Africa, which has been one of the lowest spenders for the preceding two financial years, was still one of the lowest spenders at the end of the first quarter.

Highest spending Departments as at 30 June 2005

Table 2

Current, transfer and capital expenditure

Departments have started out with extremely low capital expenditures. The following graph illustrates the expenditure breakdown of Departments. While Current expenditure has averaged 20% and Transfer expenditure 24.91%, capital expenditure has averaged only 9.67% of Departmental Expenditure.

Figure 1 provides a graphic illustration of the current, transfer and capital expenditure of National Departments.

Figure 1

[pic]

Departments spent an average of 6.29% of their current expenditure in April 2005, increasing to 7.16% and 7.26% in May and June respectively. Furthermore, transfer expenditure was 4.47% in April, increasing to 13.40% in May and decreasing to 7.03% in June. The Departments of Public Enterprises and Correctional Services spent 61.37% and 68.15% of their transfer budgets in April 2005, respectively. The Department of Correctional Services spent a further 72% of its transfer budget in May 2005 and has already exceeded its transfer budget.

Spending on capital payments has been very slow. In April 2005, Departments spent an average of 2.49% of their capital expenditure, increasing slightly to 3.82% in May and 3.37% in June.

Responses for expenditure Trends

Statistics South Africa

Statistics South Africa has provided the following reasons for its delays in expenditure:

• The Department has R200 million budgeted for community  surveys  which
  has been delayed by technical procedures.  The  Minister  of  Finance,
  who is also the political head of Stats SA, has instructed that  Stats
  SA agree with the Statistics Council regarding the  logistics  of  the
  survey.   The two organisations have met several times to discuss  how
  the survey should be  conducted,  as  well  as  other  logistical  and
  demographic factors to be considered, but no formal agreement has been
  reached as yet.

• Most of the Department’s capital expenditure  will  be  spent  on  the
  community survey on the Community Survey Administration  System.   The
  Department, therefore, expects its capital expenditure to  improve  as
  soon as this process starts.


• The Income and Expenditure Survey, which was due to  start  in  April,
  only started on 1 August 2005.  Therefore, expenditure in this  regard
  has been delayed.

• The Department has several vacancies that  it  is  currently  filling,
  thus the low current expenditure.

Department of Public Enterprises

The Department indicated that the high expenditure on transfers was due to the restructuring of Alexander Bay Mining Corporation (ALEXCO), which is a mine that is managed by the Department. The Department gave instruction for a study to be conducted at the mine in 2004. The purpose of the study was to assess the value of ALEXCO, and to ascertain whether it’s economically favourable for the Department to keep it. The Department thus had to pay for this study in this financial year.

The Department has made a once-off payment of R12 million towards legal costs in this financial year. The Department is involved in a legal battle with the Richterveldt community for mining rights of ALEXCO. The R12 million was a once-off payment and there will not be any other legal payments in this financial year. The department expects to pay another R450 million in legal fees in the 2006/07 financial year[2].

The Department normally advances money to the Diabo trust and the Khulisa trust, which serve to subsidise the shares of communities, e.g. Telkom shares. The Department has, however, held back payments to these trusts due to the fact that the financial reports of the trust have indicated that the trusts are now self-sustainable.

Independent Complaints Directorate (ICD)

The ICD presented the following motivation for the slight overspending in terms of capital payments during the first quarter of the current financial year:

1. The building currently in use to accommodate the staff of the National Office of the ICD in Pretoria does not provide sufficiently for the increase of staff numbers, assets, equipment and information. This prompted a request to the Department of Public Works during the 2004/05 financial year to obtain alternative office space. Prescripts allow the latter Department to provide for the additional accommodation, whilst the user department is expected to incur the expenditure of such additional accommodation for the first three years of occupation. A payment of approximately R 575 000 was thus made to the Department of Public Works to defray the lease expenditure of the additional office space, for the current financial year.

2. The ICD catered for the payment of the accruals from the previous financial year during the first quarter but did not budget for the expenditure in terms of the additional accommodation.

  In the past, the Department of Public Works catered for the
  procurement of accommodation for all departments from its budget.
  The Department however, experienced difficulties in coping with the
  increasing needs for accommodation by the various departments.  In
  dealing with this issue, the Department introduced guidelines that
  departments had to follow when additional or new office accommodation
  was required in the 2004/05 financial year in order to manage the
  process more effectively.    The ICD was thus compelled to incur the
  payment from savings created in the budget, without having budgeted
  for it.

1. At the onset of the current financial year, The ICD was aware of this expenditure from the beginning of the financial year and planned accordingly. The next and last payment in this regard, will be effected in the first quarter of the next financial year, which will also be a once off payment.
2. The ICD makes use of its cash flow projections and spends accordingly. In this regard, the ICD expects to remain within its budgeted allocation and will not overspend its budget. This once- off payment will only be repeated in the first quarter of next year (2006/7).

Provincial and Local Government (DPLG)

The Department confirmed that the total expenditure up to 30 June 2005 was 9,2% of the total appropriation. However, it also highlighted that it was necessary to analyse the DPLG budget in two elements.

• the operational budget  includes  transfers  to  public  entities  and
  associated institutions. This  relates  to  Programmes  1  to  5  plus
  Programme 7 of the Department. In this regard the figures are:

       Appropriation                                 R301 275 000
       Expenditure to 30 June                  R  84 958 154
       Less: Misallocation                       R  18 482 538
       Actual Expenditure                         R  66 475 616
       % Expenditure                                22,1%

The Transfers to Local Government which appear in Programme 6. In this regard the figures are:

       Appropriation                                  R15 279 502 00
       Expenditure to 30 June                   R1 325 560 085
       Plus: Misallocation                          R18 482 538
       Actual Expenditure                          R 1 344 042 623
                                 %                           Expenditure 8,8%

The payments to municipalities are regulated by the payment schedules provided in terms of the Division of Revenue Act. The Equitable Share is paid in four installments and the First Quarter national in the Last Quarter for municipalities. There is a process to align the payment schedules for the differing financial years and to do this, the First Quarter payment in May 2005 was at a level far below a pro rata 25%. In addition, a number of payments were delayed on instruction from the National Treasury in respect of municipalities that had not submitted financial statements for the past two years and had not provided satisfactory explanation.

The Department indicated that it was not aware of where the 200% capital expenditure was coming from as its capital expenditure figures have been derived as the actual BAS figures. These were reported to the National Treasury as follows:

       Appropriation                                 R5 790 000
       Expenditure to 30 June                   R1 395 740
       % Expenditure                                        24,1%

In addition, there are also transfers to Local Government in respect of the Municipal Infrastructure Grant, which are recorded as Capital Transfer as follows:

          Appropriation                                R5 436 161 000
          Expenditure                                  R1 027 069 323

                                  %                          Expenditure 18,9%

The Department confirmed that it has cash-flow projections and that it tries as much as it can to follow them.

Attempts to obtain clarification regarding the Department of Correctional Services were unsuccessful.

Part B: Provincial Expenditure

Provinces had spent an average of 21.94% of their budgets at the end of the first quarter of the 2005/06 financial year. The North West Province was the lowest spender, spending 17.66% of its budget. In addition, provinces spent an average on 22.79%, 21.28% and 16.57% on current, transfer and capital expenditure respectively. Figure 2 provides a graphical depiction of the breakdown in expenditure.

Table 3

Figure 2

[pic]

Recommendations

1. The Committee should invite Chairpersons of Portfolio Committees to hearings with departments, as well as work hand in hand with Portfolio Committees in monitoring departments through their cash flow projections and strategic plans.
2. The Joint Budget Committee should request clarity from departments on their cash flow projections in order to ascertain that these speak to the departments’ strategic plans.

Appendix 1: Total expenditure of National Departments as at 30 June 2005

Table 4

Appendix 2: Current Expenditure of National Departments as at 30 June 2005

Table 5

Appendix 3: Transfer expenditure of National Departments as at 30 June 2005

Table 6

Appendix 4: Capital expenditure of National Departments as at 30 June 2005

Table 7

Appendix 5: Current provincial expenditure

Table 8

Appendix 6: Transfer Provincial Expenditure

Table 9

Appendix 7: Capital Provincial Expenditure

Table 10

Sources

• Statement of National and Provincial Governments’ revenue, expenditure
  and National borrowing as at 30 April 2005; National Treasury.
• Statement of National and Provincial Governments’ revenue, expenditure
  and National borrowing as at 31 May 2005; National Treasury.
• Statement of National and Provincial Governments’ revenue, expenditure
  and National borrowing as at 30 June 2005; National Treasury.

Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Joint Budget Committee on Hearing on the spending trends in the Department of Communications, dated 31 August 2005:

   Introduction

   The Department of Communications appeared before the Joint Budget Committee on 22 June 2005 to account for its expenditure trends. The expenditure trends of the Department of Communications have been a cause for concern for the Joint Budget Committee for the previous three financial years.

   For the last three financial years, the department has been underspending tremendously, and then spending more that 50% of its budget in the last month of the financial year. In both the 2003/04 and 2004/05 financial years, the Department spent funds in excess of R700 Million in the last month of the financial year. This resulted in the Joint Budget Committee calling the Department to appear before the Committee to present an explanation for its expenditure patterns.

   Presentation by the Department of Communications

   In response to the Committee’s request to explain its expenditure patterns, the Department indicated that in the 2004/05 financial year, it made a once-off allocation of R750 million to recapitalise the post office. However, the Department did not provide the Committee with an explanation for the previous two financial years.

   The Department focused attention on the following factors: • The Department had not recorded any material under spending in the past three years. • The Department started a process of restructuring during 2004 so as to ensure that it had enough capacity to enable it to deliver on its mandate. In this regard, the Department has filled 352 posts. However, there are 188 more vacant posts. The Department further indicated that the issue of personnel is a challenge as it depends on allocations from the National Treasury. • No provision for ICT infrastructure has been made within the Department, even though this is a core function of the Department. The Department would ideally focus on improving staff and using technology to strengthen the State.

Discussions

The following issues were raised and discussed with the Department:

• The Department assured the Committee that it would avail its cash flow
  projections, which are linked to its strategic plan.   The  Department
  further informed the Committee that it has  a  shareholder  management
  unit within its finance section that monitors State Owned  Enterprises
  through  the  Public  Finance  Management  Act  (PFMA)  regarding  the
  requirements of strategic plans by entities.  These lay the  basis  of
  the public entity within the year.

• Although the strategic plan was not reviewed in the past, the National
  Treasury now requires that it be reviewed annually.  Furthermore,  the
  Department also submits  its  financial  statements  to  the  Auditor-
  General and presents to Parliament in the Annual Report.

• The Department further indicated that there has been an improvement in
  terms of reporting as compared to the past three or four  years.   The
  Department has been behind three or four years in terms of  submitting
  its financial reports to the Auditor-General, but this is improving.
• In terms of its expenditure trends, the Department indicated that it’s
  expenditure trends are affected by both internal and external sources.
   The Department therefore does not determine its  expenditure  on  its
  own.

Conclusion

The Department provided an explanation for the last financial year’s expenditure, but failed to provide explanations for the preceding two financial years. Furthermore, the focus of the Department seems to be on preventing under expenditure, and not on the quality of expenditure.

The focus of the hearing was on the expenditure planning and discipline of the Department in order to ascertain whether resources are spent in a meaningful way. However, the Department was only focused on the fact that it never reflects any material under expenditure at the end of the financial year.

Recommendations

The Joint Budget Committee needs to work with the Portfolio Committee on Communications to monitor the department in terms of its Strategic Plans. The Committees further need to follow up on the non-allocation of funds to the ICT function, which is a crucial function of the department.

The Joint Budget Committee also needs to further keep track of the monthly and quarterly expenditure patterns of the department.

Report to be considered.

National Council of Provinces

1. Report of the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on the Determination of the Magistrates Commission to withhold the Remuneration of Mr H W Moldenhauer, Former Chief Magistrate, Pretoria whilst he was Provisionally Suspended from Office, dated 14 September 2005:

   The Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, having considered the report on the determination by the Magistrates’ Commission to withhold Mr H W Moldenhauer’s remuneration, tabled by the Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development in terms of section 13(4A)(b) of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of 1993) reports as follows:

   1.  The  Select  Committee  noted  that  on  10  March  2003   the
      Magistrates Commission provisionally suspended  Mr  Moldenhauer
      from office in terms of section  13(3)(a)  of  the  Magistrates
      Act, 1993. Section 13 (subsection  (3)(a)  in  particular)  has
      since, with effect from 1 November 2003, been  amended  to  the
      effect that the  Magistrates  Commission  is  no  longer  in  a
      position to provisionally suspend  a  magistrate  from  office.
      Since 1 November 2003 the  power  to  provisionally  suspend  a
      magistrate from office is vested in the  Minister  for  Justice
      and Constitutional Development. The power is exercised  on  the
      advice of the Magistrates Commission. Section 13(3)(a)  of  the
      Act, as it was at the  time  of  Mr  Moldenhauer’s  provisional
      suspension is therefore no longer in operation.
   
   
   2.    The Select Committee  further  noted  that  the  Magistrates
      Commission,  on  3  March  2005,  determined  to  withhold   Mr
      Moldenhauer’s remuneration in terms of section  13(4A)  of  the
      Act. However, in terms of section 13(4A)(a)  of  the  Act,  the
      Commission is only in a position to make such  a  determination
      in respect of a Magistrate who is under provisional  suspension
      in terms of section 13(3)(a) of  the  Act,  i.e  a  provisional
      suspension effected by the Minister.  Since Mr Moldenhauer  was
      provisionally suspended by the Commission in terms of a  former
      process, the Commission, in the  Committee’s  view,  could  not
      have determined  to  withhold  his  remuneration  in  terms  of
      section 13(4A) of the Act.
   
   
   3.    Alternatively, if it is argued that the reference in section
      13(4A) to section (3)(a) of the Act, should be  interpreted  to
      include a Magistrate suspended in terms of section 13(3)(a)  of
      the Act, prior to its amendment, as the  Commission  apparently
      did when taking its decision in terms of section 13(4A) of  the
      Act, Mr Moldenhauer should  also  have  been  entitled  to  the
      benefit of the provisions of section 13(3)(e) of the Act, which
      was introduced into  the  Act  by  the  Amendment  affected  by
      Parliament in November 2003 and which provides as follows:
   
   
      “The  provisional  suspension  of  a  magistrate  in  terms  of
      paragraph (a) lapses  after  60  days  from  the  date  of  the
      suspension,  unless  the  Commission,   within   that   period,
      commences its  inquiry  into  the  allegation  in  question  by
      causing a written notice containing the allegation concerned to
      be served on the magistrate.”
   
   
      Consequently, Mr Moldenhauer’s provisional suspension which was
      effected on 10 March  2003  should  have  automatically  lapsed
      after 60 days, i.e during June 2003. The inquiry  in  terms  of
      section 13(3)(e) only commenced on 7 April 2005, more than  two
      years later. In such a case the  Magistrates  Commission  could
      not have determined to withhold Mr Moldenhauer’s salary  during
      March 2005 since technically  he  would  have  not  been  under
      suspension at the time.
   
   
   4.  In  terms  of  section  13(4A)(c)  of  the  Magistrates   Act,
      Parliament must, as soon as is  reasonably  possible,  consider
      the report tabled by the Minister and pass a resolution  as  to
      whether or  not  the  determination  made  by  the  Magistrates
      Commission is confirmed, either with or without  amendment,  or
      set aside. The Select Committee is  of  the  opinion  that  the
      Commission could not  have  taken  the  decision  in  terms  of
      section 13(4A)(a) of the Act and  accordingly  recommends  that
      the Council resolves to set  aside  the  determination  by  the
      Magistrates   Commission   to   withhold    Mr    Moldenhauer’s
      remuneration.
   

Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Select Committee on Education and Recreation for the Provincial Visit to the Northern Cape, 07-12 August 2005, dated 14 September 2005:

1.      INTRODUCTION:

     The Select Committee on Education and Recreation undertook a Study
     Tour to the Northern Cape Province between 07 August 2005 and 12
     August 2005.


     The objective of the study to was to exercise oversight and to get
     report on issues highlighted below.


     EDUCATION

• Adult Basic Education and Training (ABET) • National School Nutrition Programme • Learners under studying under trees and hazardous conditions • Water and Sanitation in schools • Education for learners with Special Education Needs (ELSEN) • Governance in farm schools (Schools Governing Bodies) • Programmes on HIV/Aids • Abuse among learners • General challenges facing schools

    Sport and Recreation


        Programmes for the disabled and disadvantaged,
        Rural sport development,
        School sports and extra-mural activities for the youth,
        Funding policy for sports development.
        Availability of Sports facilities


     Arts and Culture


       • The committee also visited Heritage Sites so as to help in
         preserving and declaring sites as national treasures and
         promoting national pride and identity
       • The committee also looked at the ongoing projects especially
         those that are meant for poverty alleviation
       • Community Arts Centers


    1.1      DELEGATION:


         The delegation was composed of the following members:
         Mr. BJ Tolo, Mpumalanga (Leader of the delegation), Mr TS
         Setona, Free State, Ms D Qikani, Eastern Cape and Mr JO
         Thlagale, North West.


         The following members from Northern Cape Legislature joined
         the Select Committee: Ms CJ Williams, (Chairperson of PC on
         Education), Mr R Tsikwe and  Mr C de Bier


         Support Staff: Ms C Gcasamba, Committee Secretary and Ms N
         Borotho, Committee Assistant, accompanied the delegation


2.1     BRIEFING BY HON MEC OF EDUCATION, MR GA LUCAS


    The Honorable MEC briefed the committee as follows:


    The department of Education held an outreach programme with the
    Executive, in which all the municipalities were visited.


    Issues arising from MECs input requiring further attention during
    the visit were water, sanitation, school grading (Quintile ranking)


    The department has agreed on a Learner Achievement Programme that
    would enable schools to achieve the expected results.


    School funding was cited as a major challenge, such that a buy-in
    from the private sector in the form sponsorship is being considered


    It emerged that there is no significant difference between quintile
    1 and 3 schools. The level of poverty is the same.


    School Nutrition Programme has been extended to high schools from
    the internal budget of the department. This has been realized by
    realigning priorities of the department. Part of the arts and
    culture budget has been taken to address education and health
    matters. The challenge is the sustainability of the programme.


    The admission policy for the Northern Cape needs a review due to
    many barriers including language


    Guidelines for conduct of School Governing Bodies need an update
2.2     BRIEFING BY THE MEC ON CULTURE AND SPORT, HON K MOLUSI


    The MEC, Hon K Molusi gave an overview on issues relating to arts,
    culture and sport, as follows:


    The department has a budget allocation of R55m for the current
    financial year.  The budget has been cut to attend to health and
    education matters. There is currently a 47% shortage of staff and
    R13m is required to close the gap. There is 1 District Manager, 3
    Librarians, and 1 Curator. There department also runs a learnership
    and internship programmes. Currently, the department is preparing
    for budget Lekgotla.


2.3     BRIEFING BY EDUCATION HEAD OF DEPARTMENT, MR E WILLIAMS


    STAFFING AND RESOURCES


    Richtersveldt district has nine schools with a total of 71
    teachers. Learner enrolment for 2005,stands at 2 354.


    The following challenges were highlighted:


 • School Governing Body must remunerate additional educators due to
   lack of funding.
 • Realign poverty ranking of schools (Q5 and Q4), the area is poverty-
   stricken and schools should be falling on quintile 1 and 2.
 • Impact of unemployment and migration of workers on staffing
 • Housing for educators especially in mining and rural areas
 • Transport and conditions of roads
 • Recruitment of specialist educators to rural/ remote areas,
   educators do not like to work in remote or rural areas due to
   unbecoming conditions
 • Managing the moratorium on appointment of Public Service and
   Administration – employees Additional educators for the Language Project – to promote multilingualism, the province needs more educators to cater for vernacular languages

 SCHOOL GOVERNING BODIES (SGB’s)

      All nine schools in the Richtersveldt have functional School Governing Bodies.


The following challenges were highlighted:


 • There is a lack of training, members are uncertain about their roles
   and responsibilities
 • Lack of commitment and involvement in some places
 • Members are not stable because of frequent resignations
 • Lack of transport especially in broader feeder zones
 • Lack of funds to supplement Section 21 allocations
 • There is no proper way to disseminate information to parents
 • Authoritarian principals, they are not consulting and make their own
   individual decisions

EARLY CHILDHOOD DEVELOPMENT

In the Richtersveldt district, ECD has 7 primary school sites and 8 Grade R classes. There are 8 ECD officials, that is, five Grade R specialists, 2 Learning Programme Managers, 1 Coordinator (acting)

The ECD Unit provides the following services:

Guidance and support in the implementation of Revised National Curriculum Statement (RNCS) for Grade R-3 educators within the classroom.

Guidance and support to educators and practitioners in terms of the use of learning support toys materials.

Meets with SGB’s and committees to discuss relevant matters.

Facilitate movement of ECD sites from communities to schools.

FOLLOWING CHALLENGES WERE HIGHLIGHTED:

        • Shortage of indoor and outdoor appliances that are necessary
          for the phase
        • Shortage of Nama, Xhosa and English educators in the
          Richtersveldt, the Language of Learning and Teaching is
          Afrikaans. Learners who belong to those race groups tend to
          suffer.
        • Difficulty that vast distance creates in attending capacity
          building workshop. (Distances translate into financial
          pressures)
        • Multigrade classes in 3 schools: Johan Hein PS in Kuboes,
          Elizabeth Wimmer PS in Lekkersing, and Stephen Malherbe PS in
          Eksteenfontein


INCLUSIVE EDUCATION

The inclusive education unit in the Richtersveldt provides the following services:

• Addressing barriers to learning through in classroom support,
  assessments, treatments and consultations
• Support to physically disabled children
• Provide therapy to learners with emotional difficulties and behavioral
  problems
• Implementation of institutional Level Support Teams at schools
• Intervention programmers for reading, spelling, writing and
  mathematics
• Placements at special schools
• Career guidance
• Study motivation
• Teenage pregnancy preventing programme

The Inclusive Education is also involved in other special projects such as:

• Behavior modification sessions
• Leadership camps
• Rural girl learner project (career exposure to positions that have
  previously been dominated by males)
• School readiness information sessions to parents
• Grade 12-motivation programme
• Entrepreneurship project
• Down syndrome information sessions
• Employee assistance programme (stress management)

The following challenges were highlighted:

• Ensuring optimal staffing within reduced budgets
• Vast distances to be travelled translates to financial constraints
• Lack of assistive devices, the unit need more resources
• Lack of financial support (disability grant) to children that need to
  be placed at special schools
• Educators are sceptical about the inclusion of learners with severe
  disabilities in ordinary schools, they think they would hurt other
  learners
• Suicide attempt by a youth (Alexander Bay HS)
• School drop -outs
• Unemployment increases level of poverty and parents cannot afford some
  of the requirements of the learners  • Learners suffer because of poverty, which leads to alcoholism and    violence  • Parent support is not always available  • Buildings are not accessible for learners with severe physical    disabilities


PROGRAMMES ON HIV AND AIDS

The unit has one District Coordinator. The programme focuses on life skills workplace policy and peer education. Peer Education aims at empowering of learners through knowledge, skills, and attitudes to enable then to implement policy and life skills.

Schools has a programme called Circle of Care which aims to build a network of support with relevant state departments, Community Based Organisations and Non-Governmental Organisations for schools.

The following challenges were highlighted:

• Optimal utilisation of resources  (financial or human) in order to
  ensure success of programmes
• More youth- friendly clinics for Voluntary Counselling and Testing in
  more remote areas are required
• Availability of Learner Support Material for primary schools and high
  school- focusing on life skills
• A committed Life Skills Coordinator at schools to coordinate Life
  Skills as well as HIV and Aids programmes
• Securing other support materials for schools
• More community involvement in programmes, the unit needs launch a
  campaign
• There is no committed leadership at school level


PRIMARY SCHOOL NUTRITION PROGRAMME

The unit is responsible for monitoring and training in management of PSNP programme and encouraging vegetable garden projects.

The programme is funded for 156 days in primary schools and 105 days for high schools. Per capita allocation for primary schools with more than 200 learners is R1, 00 for 156 days (food) and 15c for 156 days (admin costs). An extra 10c is paid (25c admin. costs), if less than 200 learners. Per capita allocations for all high schools is R1, 00 (food) and 15c (admin cost) for 105 days. Money is paid quarterly (into school bank account) and district office informs schools about deposits

The following challenges were highlighted:

• Salt content of water affects some of the crops
• Poor soil
• Lack of space on school grounds to accommodate food gardens
• Some schools are not fenced and makes it difficult to establish food
  gardens
• Remuneration of workers is not consistent due to lack of funds
• Care during holidays
• Allocation for smaller schools
• Increase school feeding days per year, the department would like to go
  beyond
       156 days feeding

• The unit must circulate recipe books amongst schools, which must still
  be revised
• Funds for administration costs are limited
• Learnerships and workshop in food gardening need to be established
• At times funding for Primary School Nutrition Programme does not come
  through in
       time

ADULT BASIC EDUCATION AND TRAINING

There is currently one centre serving two areas, that is, Port Nolloth and Sizamele. The total numbers of enrolled learners is 16 and the age range is between 17 and 54. Learning area include Afrikaans, English, Mathematics, Ancillary Health Care, Travel and Tourism. The project will be revived in Kuboes, Sanddrift, Lekkersing and Eksteenfontein rural centres.

The following challenges were highlighted:

• The biggest challenge is the dwindling of learners during winter
  months, learners cannot travel long distances to the centres
• Managing the impact of reduced budget, e.g., educator allocation
  dropped from 68 to 60.
• Deep rural areas are sparsely populated- difficult to reach ratio 1:20
• Establishing a functioning South African National Literacy (SANLI)
  operation
• Centres not functioning due to educators leaving the system for
  permanent positions
• Ensuring educators do not have to wait long periods before getting
  their salary
• Vast distances and very bad roads
• Accommodating Grade 12 classes (80 learners)
• Shortage of specialised educators
• Establishing a provincial educator: adult learner ratio norm
• The main challenge for project revival is that the educator will
  receive a R400 stipend per month, contract is in draft form and SANLI
  project has to be properly set up for implementation


2.4 BRIEFING BY MR HE ESAU, HOD: SPORT, ARTS AND CULTURE.

Mr Esau, HOD for Sport, Arts and Culture briefed the committee as follows:

MASS PARTICIPATION PROGRAMME:

A Conditional grant of R2, 640 million for 2005/ 6 financial year has been allocated There are eleven Hub Coordinators and sixty- five, activity coordinators. One coordinator is for the Richtersveldt district and is stationed in Port Nolloth. A stipend of R1 800 per month is paid to the coordinator. Four activity coordinators for Netball, Soccer, Cricket and Volley Ball receive a stipend of R1 200 per month.

LIBRARY AND INFORMATION SERVICES

There are fifteen service points in the Namakwa district with an average of 90 000 book circulation per quarter and 20 000 registered member figure

There are 5 mobile service points in Hondeklipbaai, Kamassies, Paushoek, Rooifontein and Soebasrfontein with close to 7 500-book circulations per quarter and average registered membership figure of 900 people

RICHTERSVELD ARTS AND CRAFTS PROJECT

This is poverty alleviation through investment in Culture projects Culture Festival at Port Nolloth is held annually There is a craft project for the Richtersveldt Communities, including a shop in Steinkopft A project manager and craft development specialist has been appointed from local community

INTERDEPARTMENTAL COOPERATION

Reference was made to the Framework of Collaboration, which provides for coordination and management of school sport in public ordinary schools that was signed by Minister of Education and Sport and Recreation in March 2005. A joint statement on a framework for collaboration in the Northern Cape has been drafted. Social cluster suggested matters of Arts and Culture in schools to be included in the curriculum. The department proposes the formation of an inter-departmental structure to ensure that the framework is properly implemented and commits to the development of joint programmes every year.

  2.5 VISITS TO SCHOOLS


PORT NOLLOTH PRIMARY

This is a former Model C school, which successfully amalgamated with Sizamile primary school in 1995. The school has 568 Learners and 18 educators, including 1 part-time Xhosa teacher. The school nutrition is running very well. Water is sufficient and sanitation is in good condition. The school has started with food garden to augment the nutrition programme. The school has a functional School Governing Body.

The following challenges were highlighted:

  • Parents cannot afford school fees and they do not cooperate with
    the Exemption Policy
  • Departmental allocation does not come in time
  • More teachers are required, especially for languages
  • Learner support material is not sufficient, allocation from the
    department is too limited
  • No scholar transport
  • Language policy needs to be reviewed

PORT NOLLOTH HIGH SCHOOL (Former Model C)

There school successfully combined with Atlantis High School in January 2004. There are 380 learners (Grade 8-12) and 12 educators. School Governing Body is well functioning. For the past four years, the school managed to obtain 100%. There are 52 learners exempted from paying school fees.

The following challenges were highlighted:

• There are no enough classrooms and furniture. The school made a
  requisition for furniture in 2004 but no response to date. A
  requisition letter is with the committee. The school is making use of
  extra five mobile classrooms.
• The language policy needs to be reviewed
• The school is ranked quintile 5, while it belongs to lower quintile
  rank
• No sport facilities, learners do not participate in sport
• No exemption policy for parents


LEKKERSING PRIMARY SCHOOL

This is a primary school with 57 pupils (grade1-7) and 3 educators. The department pays only one teacher. The school survives from donations.

The following challenges were highlighted:

• The school receives R400 per year, for section 21 functions which is
  insufficient
• There school has no transport to attend to sporting activities,  that
  affects learner participation in big way.
• Allocation of tenders is not satisfactory; tenders are given to people
  from outside the town.
• Two educators are employed on contract basis and are not paid in time.

STEPHEN MALHERBE PRIMARY SCHOOL

This is a primary school with 52 learners and two educators. The school has functional School Governing Body and good relation with parents in general. Two churches sponsor the school. The nutrition programme is running very well. Water and sanitation facilities are sufficient.

The following challenges were highlighted:

  • Insufficient funds for the school, that makes it difficult for the
    school to function
  • The school has one sporting code; there are no sport facilities
  • Shortage of educators, each educator is responsible for at least
    four classes


2.5 CULTURE AND SPORT SITE VISITS

The committee also visited the following sites:

PORT NOLLOTH MULTI PURPOSE CENTRE

The centre caters for all schools in Port Nolloth. It is meant to promote mass participation. The centre accommodates soccer, volleyball, netball and rugby players. The centre is currently, faced with shortage of equipment. I t is difficult for the coordinators to do their work as there is a shortage of sport facilities and equipment, for example, one soccer ball, for about fifty youths

RICHTERSVELD TENTATIVE WORLD HERITAGE SITE

The Richtersveldt is on South Africa’s official list of World Heritage sites and preparations for listing are currently under way although it is not certain when the listing will take place. The region is both a cultural landscape and unique mountain desert ecosystem owned by the Nama people, the Khoekhoe culture that survives relatively intact. It is the last area where the nomadic herder lifestyle of the Khoekhoe prevails in significant fashion, including construction and use of indigenous portable buildings, seasonal movement with herds and many other traditions that tie the people to the landscape. This harsh area with unpredictable climate is also a centre of plant endemism (evolution of new species) having the highest known diversity of dry ecosystem plant life for any desert of comparable size, 1615 known plant species of which 140 are only found in the Richtersveldt. Preparatory research on the site had been conducted with Norwegian funding and the nomination is being prepared with financial assistance from UNESCO’s world heritage Centre.

EKSTEENFONTEIN MUSEUM

The museum is at Eksteenfontein Museum is a community- based project driven by the youth from the area. Through ECO-Africa and NORAD they were able to raise funds for the restoration of the oldest house in Eksteenfontein and advised them on what would be needed and also on the restoration process. The building has been restored and an information centre has been build. The intention is to move the present information centre to the museum. The museum is also funded some aspects of the development.

The interior has been designed and prepared by Mc Gregor Museum staff for the displays that need to be installed. Material to be displayed is still being collected by the youth. Once they are ready the museum will develop the display material for them and do the installation of it.

The museum received material from the Free State University on oral research done on stock farming recently which we will develop into a display. The museum will also be assisting with the training of the staff in the running of the museum and the conservation of artefacts. Training in other aspects like oral history and research will be given.

KINDÊRLE MEMORIAL: STEINKOPF

The site known as “Kinderlê” is situated on a smallholding that lays 12km from Steinkopf. It consists of a single grave where Nama children were buried. It is a local heritage site and is older than 160 years. The Northern Cape South African Heritage Resource Agency attended the unveiling ceremony of the “Kinderlê” memorial, which took place on 30 June 2003.

RICHTERSVELD FESTIVAL AND CRAFTS PROJECT

This project is funded by the National Department of Arts and Culture though the Northern Cape Department of Sport, Arts and Culture. This project runs an annual cultural festival at Port Nolloth and a craft project for the Richtersveldt communities, including a shop and studio at its base in Steinkopf. A project manager and a Craft Development Specialist, drawn from the local community, work with crafts people and performers in the towns and villages of the Richtersveldt to raise standards of performance and develop new craft products and improve quality of craft production.

THE “ MUSIEKKAMER”- STEINKOPFF

This is a Non-Profit Organisation established on 02 September 2003 and is dependent on donations and grants for its maintenance. Training is done in phases to reach a broader audience. Children from disadvantaged communities, who are interested in music but cannot afford to pay, receive free tuition. Regular monthly meetings with parents are held to discuss the progress of students.

The aims of this organisation are as follows:

• To provide music lessons to children in particular • To develop musical talent in an attempt to keep children from the streets • To contribute towards the promotion of culture in general, but music in particular

2.6 MEETING WITH BOTH DEPARTMENTS OF EDUCATION AND CULTURE AND SPORT

On the last day of the visit, the committee met with both departments to brief them on the findings and issues that required immediate attention. The following recommendations were made:

There is a need for the department to urgently revisit the quintile grading of schools as some schools feel they are given high grades while they are poor. This will affect them negatively when government funds schools in accordance with quintiles.

More educators are required in almost all the schools in the Richtersveldt district to avoid multi-grading in classes and to allow young children, e.g., Grade R to be taught in their mother tongue

Both the provincial department of Education and Sport and Culture need to appoint permanent staff, as this will create greater stability. (Avoid secondment)

Department of Education in the province need to monitor schools in following the exemption Policy

The department of Sport and Culture need to provide schools with sporting facilities and equipment

The department of Education should work with the district to address problems that relates to the language policy. The department should give guide to schools.

The department of Education should make a follow-up on the furniture order placed by Port Nolloth High School

The department of Education should work on infrastructure backlogs

There should be dynamic contact between schools and the department

Learner Support material is insufficient in schools

Libraries have no books

The department should work on proper marketing of Steinkopf Craft Centre and link with the Tourism department.

CONCLUSION

The committee considered and adopted the report by the Committee on 14 September 2005.

Report to be considered.

[1] The Department was allocated a capital budget of R5 790. However, the Department had already spent R 19 852 at the end of the first quarter. [2] The Department has further indicated that the court case has been active for a long time. The community won the first case, which was then appealed by the Department. The court ruled in the Department’s favour following the appeal, but the community has appealed that judgment again.