THURSDAY, 23 MARCH 2006

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                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

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The House met at 14:04.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                          HOURS OF SITTING


                         (Draft Resolution)

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, I move:

That, notwithstanding the hours of sitting of the House as provided for in Rule 23(2), the House may sit on Tuesday mornings from 10:00 on 28 March, 16, 23 and 30 May and on 6 June 2006 in accordance with the programme as agreed to by the National Assembly Programme Committee.

Agreed to.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL


                (Resumption of First Reading debate)

Mr D M DLALI: Madam Speaker, the Budget that was presented here by the Minister has been hailed as one the most strategic and progressives ones, and will, of course, speed up the infrastructure development as part of the government’s programme to accelerate the growth and development, and to better the lives of all; a better life for all.

As part of the government’s development and the fact that agriculture has been identified as part of the backbone of the economy of the country, it will therefore be necessary that the Asgisa programme should focus also on agricultural infrastructure development, because without the agricultural infrastructure, like roads to transport the produce, our agricultural sector will be dead.

The infrastructural development like upgrading communications infrastructure in rural areas should be prioritised as part of the Asgisa programme, which will assist in job creation, skills development and the eradication of poverty.

We are in a phase in which we have started to change society at the same time as we transform the instruments required to effect that change. These twin objectives have to be pursued simultaneously. Social change cannot wait for the transformation of the state machinery and other instruments of power. But, as experience has taught us, we cannot expect to proceed with the desired pace without changing these instruments.

In the state of the nation address the President indicated, inter alia, that it is ensured that the land redistribution programme is aligned to the provincial growth and development strategy and the integrated development plans of municipalities, as well as attending to the proper use of the funds that have been made available for the productive utilisation of land. Therefore the centrepiece of the ANC’s programme for the economy is the pursuit of growth and development.

We need to increase the wealth base and service of producing more goods as we improve the quality of life of especially the poor and effect, in various ways, the redistribution of wealth and focus more on land redistribution – without land the nation is poor. History also tells us that, amongst other issues, in our struggle for liberation land has been a cornerstone of our struggle.

Therefore, on the basis of the above, it is the dictum of all revolutions that with its hands on the state machinery - at local, provincial and national level – the democratic movement cannot wish this machinery to serve the purpose of social transformation. It is also critical that the same machinery should be used to accelerate land transformation at a speed that will benefit the poor people, more especially the rural community who depends on land for survival.

It is therefore necessary to look at the ways and means of making use of this said machinery for it to be oiled enough to do what is expected of it, or look at the changing of the management and other endeavours of this machinery to ensure that they are efficient, effective and productive in carrying out these functions. It entails introducing a new orientation in the provision of service to society, rooting out corruption and introducing a new organisational culture and motivational values.

The ANC in its programmes, and also in pursuance of national democratic revolution, recognises the central and leading role of the working class in the project of social transformation. Therefore the role of farmworkers is critical and calls for the commercial farmers to immediately stop any form of farm evictions, and payment of a living wage to farmworkers becomes critical in this regard.

The ANC approach to democracy is also informed by the principles of consistent equality, which not only recognises unequal gender relations, but also acknowledges that the overwhelming majority of the poor are African women, especially in rural areas where the focus should be. It is also clear in this regard that this land restitution is not focusing its attention on this area, which needs also to be a priority for the growth and development in rural areas.

The recognition of land restitution as part of the broader developmental objective of government is very important and in both land restitution and redistribution most focus has been on the delivery of land, rather than enhancing the sustainability of land reform programmes.

Therefore the challenge is that the directive demands that the departments derive a coherent interdepartmental development support strategy that will enable beneficiaries of land reform to gain access to support that is offered by the various agencies in this regard. We also need to look at these agencies; whether they do what is expected of them with government programmes of eradicating poverty – now, not tomorrow. Most of these agencies are competitive amongst themselves in the same area of operations. Other agencies should complement the work that is done by others to pursue the government programmes of growth and development in order to better the lives of the poor people.

The ANC supports the Appropriation Bill. [Applause.]

Dr S M VAN DYK: Mevrou die Speaker, tydens die bespreking van die Begroting verlede jaar het die agb minister Manuel genoem dat hy die debat aangaande die nasionale Begroting verwelkom en dat die debat voortgesit moet word, en dit is presies waarop die DA wil voortbou in sy alternatiewe begroting, waarin die detail bespreek word.

Die regering het vir hom sekere ekonomiese doelwitte daargestel – kom ons kyk daarna. Eerstens, prysstabiliteit: die Reserwebank handhaaf ‘n bemoedigende monetêre beleid met ‘n lae rentekoers wat verbruikersbesteding stimuleer binne die beperkte inflasieraam. Die regering se fiskale beleid oefen slegs matige bestedingsdruk op inflasie uit, terwyl belastings as persentasie van die BBP gestyg het.

Tweedens, die tekort op die lopende rekening van die betalingsbalans word deur kapitaalinstromings goedgemaak. Deur verbruikersbesteding aan te moedig, sal ons huidige lae rentekoerse – onderskraag deur die sterk rand – invoere bly stimuleer en sekere van ons uitvoere belemmer. Hoër koerse elders in die wêreld mag uiteindelik Suid-Afrika se kapitaalinstromings beperk. Dan mag dit moeiliker wees om die tekort op die lopende rekening te dra.

Derdens, wat sy groei- en indiensnemingsdoelwitte betref, wil die Minister nog sneller ekonomiese groei van ses persent sien om werkloosheid aan te pak. Werkloosheid is gevaarlik hoog – byna twee uit elke vyf werkers sit sonder werk. Uit die verloop van Suid-Afrika se groeiprestasie die afgelope 10 jaar blyk dit dat ‘n versnelling in ekonomiese groei nie noodwendig ‘n genoegsame styging in werkgeleenthede meebring nie. Ondanks die jaarlikse groei in die ekonomie het die aantal werkloses die afgelope dekade met meer as 80% toegeneem. Daar is dus ‘n ontbrekende element om hoër ekonomiese groei om te skakel in werkskepping.

Makro-ekonomies gesien, is Suid-Afrika se monetêre en fiskale beleid bestendig. Natuurlik verkies ons bestendigheid bo wisselvalligheid – dit kan die ekonomie geweldig ontwrig as die makro-ekonomiese beleid jaarliks verander word. Die belangrikste vraag is egter of dit die aangewese beleid vir Suid-Afrika is, gegewe ons omstandighede. Die vraag is of die huidige monetêre en fiskale beleid help om werkskeppingsprestasie in die ekonomie te verbeter. Die DA glo daar is ruimte vir ‘n meer ekspansionêre fiskale beleid.

Die agb Minister se fiskale beleid gee ‘n geringe mate van belastingverligting, hoofsaaklik aan laerinkomstegroepe. Groter verbruikersbesteding sal wel sekere sektore in die ekonomie stimuleer. Die uitwerking daarvan op indiensneming sal egter klein wees. Verbruikers is geneig om meer te bestee met belastingverligting en dit stimuleer tans die ekonomiese groei in plaas van om meer te spaar vir investering.

Groei word gemeet aan die jaar se toename in die BBP. Ons kan nie elke komponent van groei, waaraan groei gemeet word, koppel aan ‘n ooreenstemmende groei in indiensneming nie, omdat groei ook kan plaasvind sonder om meer mense in diens te neem. So byvoorbeeld kan meer geproduseer word deur bloot net van arbeidsintensiewe na kapitaalintensiewe produksie oor te skakel, òf die produktiwiteit van werkers kan verhoog word, òf beter tegnologie kan gebruik word om ‘n onderneming se uitset te verhoog.

Daarom, gegewe die huidige groeikoers, tesame met die bestendige monetêre beleid en aanpassings in die fiskale beleid, kort Suid-Afrika hervorming van die ekonomie wat werkloosheid bekamp. Dit beteken strukturele aanpassing, en hiervoor het die agb Minister die steun van die Kabinet nodig. Daarom moet bepaal word welke ekonomiese beleidsrigtings gebruik kan word, en watter verander moet word om werkskepping te stimuleer.

Ten opsigte van die makro-ekonomiese aanpassings, die volgende: eerstens is die huidige en verwagte begrotingstekort van die BBP veels te klein. Wil Suid-Afrika dan meer fiskaal-voorbeeldig wees as die res van die moderne ontwikkelde wêreld? Fiskale dissipline word verwelkom, maar hoekom so fiskaal-suinig met die belastingbetaler se geld? As die regering nie die geld wil gebruik nie, dit bloot iewers wil wegsteek in ‘n onnodige gebeurlikheidsreserwe in die staatskas, moet hy dit eenvoudig nie vat nie. Los dit liewer in die belastingbetaler se sak; dié sal weet hoe om dit ten beste te bestee.

Tweedens het Suid-Afrika alle rede om aan te dring op ‘n grootskaalse uitbreiding van staatsbesteding aan sy infrastruktuur vir instandhouding en nuwe infrastruktuur om in te pas by die hoër koers van ekonomiese groei. Die staatskuld kan vir dié doel aansienlik vergroot word. Die huidige lae rentekoerse maak dit nie net moontlik nie, maar ook gewens.

Derdens, met die huidige oorinvordering van R41 miljard, is daar genoeg ruimte in die tekort voor lenings vir aansporing van klein ondernemings, kapitaalvorming, opleiding, herstruktureringsubsidies en belastingtoegewings – alles vir werkskepping. Vierdens, die lae inflasiekoers skep ruimte dat die Reserwebank via monetêre beleid buitelandse valutareserwes kan uitbou om die rand na ‘n meer uitvoervriendelike peil af te druk. ‘n Toename in uitvoere sal dan help om produksie aan te moedig en werkgeleenthede te skep. Terselfdertyd sal dit ook die lopende rekening van die betalingsbalans verbeter.

Vyfdens kan die regering buitelandse investering in Suid-Afrika bevorder deur valutabeheer af te skaf. Onder die huidige gunstige omstandighede skep die voortbestaan van valutabeheer net die suspisie dat die regering bang is vir ‘n ongunstige buitelandse reaksie op toekomstige beleidsmistastings.

Sesdens is maatskappye ook geneig om belastingverligting te gebruik tot voordeel van hul aandeelhouers, maar Suid-Afrika moet hom toespits op belastingverligting se sekondêre effek, naamlik om meer nuwe ondernemers te lok. ‘n Afname in regulering sal ook meebring dat korporatiewe belastingverligting wel bydra tot verdere werkskepping. Dan is daar ook by sekere staatsdepartemente 38% poste vakant. Hier is ruimte vir werkskepping om die huidige kapasiteitsprobleem in die openbare sektor te verlig.

Laastens is die algehele investeringsvlak in Suid-Afrika nog steeds laag vanweë die onproduktiewe en lae tempo van openbare investering en die nog laer, maar gelukkig groeiende, vlak van private investering.

Wat die strukturele aanpassings betref, die volgende: eerstens behoort die regering sy arbeidsbeleid te hersien. Baie besluite is geneem sonder om die moontlike gevolge daarvan in ag te neem. Dit geld byvoorbeeld vir die blindelingse implementering van regstellende aksie wat tot ‘n verlies aan kundigheid en ervaring gelei het.

Tweedens bly oorregulering van die ekonomie, en veral arbeidswetgewing, ‘n remskoen vir werkskepping. Tot 37% sakeondernemings het uitbreidings in produksie gestaak as gevolg daarvan en 15% het opgehou om verdere arbeid in diens te neem.

Derdens is opleiding eenvoudig net nie op standaard nie. Tot 71% skole ondervind ‘n tekort aan leermiddels, onderwysers en infrastruktuur. Ondernemings ondervind ‘n groot skaarste aan hooggeskoolde arbeid, terwyl werksoekers sonder bruikbare vaardighede volop is. Vierdens sal die regering openbare staatsamptenare se verantwoordelikheidspeil eenvoudig moet verbeter. Op enige gegewe dag is 4,5% van Suid-Afrika se staatsamptenare afwesig. In sekere organisasies is dit so hoog soos 16%. Lae geskooldheid en lae werketiek bring mee dat die ekonomiese koste van onproduktiwiteit in Suid-Afrika tot R102 miljard per jaar, of 10% van die BBP, beloop. Dit spruit voort uit die gebrekkige beplanning en swak toesighouding wat meebring dat 22% van alle werktyd vermors word.

Vyfdens sal Statistiek SA sy groeiramings en die Suid-Afrikaanse Inkomstediens se belastinginkomsteberamings moet opskerp. Verkeerde berekenings het onder andere tot oorinvordering van belastings gelei en om belastingverligting dan ‘n jaar later deur te gee, is ‘n jaar verlore waarin verdere werkgeleenthede geskep kon word.

Sesdens moet die landbousektor as absorbeerder van ongeskoolde arbeid, en waarvan daar baie in Suid-Afrika is, beskerm word. Geadministreerde minimum loonvasstelling buite die markraamwerk vir landbou sal eenvoudig meebring dat werkers afgedank word.

Verder bly die verskaffing van openbare mediese hulp aan MIV/vigs-lyers ‘n prioriteit. Meer as 60% van die myne en 50% van die vervaardigers in Suid- Afrika beleef reeds ‘n daling in arbeidsproduktiwiteit en ‘n styging in werkafwesigheid as gevolg van die pandemie.

Laastens bring die lae indiensnemingskoers en armoede in Suid-Afrika mee dat die las van maatskaplike welsynstoelaes op die staatskas bly toeneem. Dit absorbeer alreeds 16,7% van die begroting en groei vinniger as enige ander kategorie van openbare besteding. Binnekort sal een uit elke vier mense hierdie toelaes van die staat kan eis. Hulle dra nie produktief by tot die skepping van welvaart of werk nie, maar raak afhanklik van die staat vir hul ekonomiese oorlewing. Die veiligheidsnet van maatskaplike sekuriteit kan egter net sterker gemaak word deur ‘n gesonde groei in die ekonomie. As die las te swaar word, gaan dit skeur, met tragiese gevolge.

Agb Minister, u sê die staat kan nie net agteroor sit en kyk hoe die mark alles regmaak nie, maar dan moet u ook onthou dat u bestendige fiskale beleid ook nie die enigste medisyne kan wees nie. U en die Kabinet behoort te besin oor die herontplooiing van die ekonomie en strukturele aanpassings waarna verwys is. Verder sal die mark baie vinniger werk skep as die regering dit kans gee om volgens die markbeginsels te funksioneer en ophou om produksie te straf met onnodige belastings en regulering.

U moet onthou, Minister, staatsinvestering sal, regstreeks, net ongeveer drie persent van die werkloses absorbeer. Net private investering kan werklik die ekonomie laat groei en voldoende werkgeleenthede skep vir die 7,8 miljoen werkloses, waarvan werkloosheid onder swartmense meer as 60% beloop, terwyl die skepping van nuwe werkgeleenthede vir swartmense as werkers, bestuurders en eienaars ook gesien kan word as die grootste enkele vorm van swart ekonomiese bemagtiging.

Die party, die DA, ondersteun die wetsontwerp. Ek dank u, Speaker. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Dr S M VAN DYK: Madam Speaker, during the discussion of the Budget last year the hon Minister Manuel mentioned that he welcomed the debate on the national Budget and that the debate should be continued, and that is exactly what the DA wants to continue to build upon with its alternative budget, in which the detail is be discussed.

The government has set certain economic goals for itself – let us take a look at them. Firstly, let us look at price stability: The Reserve Bank is maintaining an encouraging monetary policy with a low interest rate that is stimulating consumer spending within the limited inflation setting. The government’s fiscal policy is exerting only moderate expenditure pressure on inflation, while tax as a percentage of GDP has increased.

Secondly, the deficit on the current account of the balance of payments is being made for up by the inflow of capital. By encouraging consumer spending, our current low interest rates – supported by the strong rand – will keep on stimulating imports and hamper some of our exports. Higher rates elsewhere in the world may eventually limit South Africa’s capital inflows. It may then be more difficult to carry the deficit on the current account. Thirdly, concerning his growth and employment goals, the Minister wants to see an even faster economic growth rate of six percent, to address unemployment. Unemployment is dangerously high – almost two in five workers are unemployed. From the course of South Africa’s growth achievements over the past ten years, it seems as if an acceleration in economic growth does not necessarily bring about sufficient increases in job opportunities. Despite the annual economic growth the number of unemployed people has increased by over 80% during the past decade. There is therefore an element that is lacking to convert higher economic growth into job creation.

Seen macro-economically, South Africa’s monetary and fiscal policies are stable. Of course we prefer stability to uncertainty – it can disrupt the economy enormously if the macro-economic policy changes yearly. The most important question is, however, whether it is the right policy for South Africa, given our circumstances. The question is whether the current monetary and fiscal policies are assisting in improving the job creation performance in the economy. The DA believes that there is room for a more expansionary fiscal policy.

The hon Minister’s fiscal policy gives a small measure of tax relief, mainly to lower income groups. Greater consumer spending will certainly stimulate certain sectors within the economy. The effect of this on employment will, however, be slight. Consumers are inclined to spend more in the face of tax relief, which is currently stimulating economic growth, instead of saving more for investment purposes.

Growth is measured by the year’s increase in GDP. Every component of growth, whereby growth is measured, cannot be linked to a corresponding growth in employment, because growth can also occur without employing more people. So, for example, more can be produced just by changing from labour- intensive to capital-intensive production, or the productivity of workers can be increased, or better technology can be used to increase the output of an enterprise.

Given, therefore, the current growth rate, together with the stable monetary policy and adjustments in the fiscal policy, South Africa needs reformation of the economy to fight unemployment. This will mean structural adjustments, and to do this the hon Minister needs the support of the Cabinet. It must be stipulated which economic policies can be used, and which must be changed to stimulate job creation.

With regard to the macro-economic adjustments, the following: Firstly, the current and expected budget deficit of the GDP is far too small. Does South Africa want to be more fiscally exemplary than the rest of the modern developing world? Fiscal discipline is welcomed, but why be so fiscally - stingy with the taxpayers’ money? If the government does not the want to use the money, but just wants to stash it away in on unnecessary contingency reserve in the treasury, it should simply not take the money. Rather leave it in the taxpayers’ pocket; they will know how best to spend it. Secondly, South Africa has every reason to insist on a large-scale expansion of state’s expenditure on its infrastructure for maintenance and new infrastructure to tie in with the higher rate of economic growth. Public debt can be increased considerably for this purpose. The current low interest rates make this not only possible but also advisable.

Thirdly, with the current overrecovery of R41 billion, there is enough room in the deficit before loans for incentives for small enterprises, capital formation, training, restructuring subsidies and tax concessions - all for job creation.

Fourthly, the low inflation rate is creating room for the Reserve Bank to expand foreign exchange reserves via the monetary policy in order to force the rand down to a more export-friendly level. An increase in exports will help to encourage production and to encourage create jobs. At the same time it will also improve the current account on the balance of payments.

Fifthly, the government can improve foreign investment in South Africa by abolishing exchange control. Under the current conducive circumstances the continued existence of exchange control merely creates the suspicion that government is afraid of an unfavourable foreign reaction to future policy miscalculations.

Sixthly, companies also tend to use tax relief to the advantage of their shareholders, but South Africa must concentrate on the secondary effect of tax relief, namely to attract more new entrepreneurs. A decrease in regulation will also ensure that corporate tax relief will indeed make a contribution to further job creation. Then again, in certain government departments 38% of the posts are vacant. There is room here for job creation to relieve the current capacity problem in the public sector.

Lastly, the general investment level in South Africa is still low due to the unproductive and low rate of public investments and the even lower, but fortunately growing level of private investments.

Pertaining to the structural adjustments, the following should be considered: Firstly, the government needs to revise its labour policy. Many decisions have been taken without taking into account the consequences of these. This applies, for example to the indiscriminate implementation of affirmative action, which has led to a loss of skills and experience.

Secondly, overregulation of the economy, and especially labour legislation, continues to curb job creation. Up to 37% of business enterprises have stopped expansion of their production because of this, and 15% have stopped the further employment of labour.

Thirdly, training is just not up to standard. Up to 71% of schools have a shortage of learning aids, teachers and infrastructure. Enterprises are experiencing a big shortage of highly skilled labour, while job seekers with no usable skills are in abundant supply.

Fourthly, the government simply must improve the level of accountability of public servants. On any given day 4,5% of South Africa’s public servants are absent. In some organisations this figure as high as 16%. Low skill levels and a low work ethic bring the economic cost of unproductivity in South Africa to R102 billion per year, or 10% of the GDP. This arises from insufficient planning and poor supervision, which leads to 22% of work time being wasted.

Fifthly, Statistics SA must sharpen its growth estimates and the South African Revenue Service its tax revenue estimates. Wrong calculations have, inter alia, led to the overrecovery of tax, and to give tax relief a year later means that a year has been lost in which we could have created further job opportunities.

Sixthly, the agricultural sector, as an absorber of unskilled labour, of which there is a lot in South Africa, must be protected. Administered minimum wage determinations outside the market framework of agriculture will simply lead to workers being dismissed.

Furthermore, the providing of public medical aid to HIV/Aids sufferers remains a priority. More than 60% of the mines and 50% of the producers in South Africa are already experiencing a decrease in labour productivity and an increase in absence from the workplace due to this pandemic.

Lastly, the low employment rate and poverty in South Africa are causing a continued increase in the burden of social welfare grants on the Treasury. It already absorbs 16,7% of the budget and is growing faster than any other category of public spending. Very soon one in every four people will be able to claim these grants from the state. They do not contribute productively to the generation of wealth or jobs, but become dependent on the state for their economic survival. However, the safety net of social security can only be strengthened by healthy growth in the economy. If the burden becomes too great it will tear, with tragic consequences.

Hon Minister, you say that the state cannot just sit back and watch how the market fixes everything, but then you must also remember that your stable fiscal policy cannot be the only medicine either. You and the Cabinet ought to reflect on the redevelopment of the economy and the structural adjustments that have been referred to.

The market will furthermore create jobs far more quickly, if the government gives it the opportunity to operate according to market principles and stops penalising production with unnecessary taxes and regulations.

You must remember, Minister, that state investments will directly only absorb 3% of the unemployed. Only private investments can really make the economy grow and create sufficient job opportunities for the 7,8 million unemployed, from which unemployment amongst black people is more than 60%, while the creation of new job opportunities for black people as workers, managers and owners can also be seen as the single biggest type of black economic empowerment. The party, the DA supports the Bill. I thank you Speaker.]

Mr T E VEZI: Madam Speaker, since the transition we have seen better economic performance but not as many jobs as expected. Increased social grants continue to make an impact on poverty reduction, racial inequality continues to be improved, there has been as well-targeted public spending shift, resulting in unprecedented hard service delivery. Other social outcomes hardly improved due to problems of service quality and resource use. The main impact on poverty reduction has been social grants and not job creation. Unfortunately, there are limits to the role of social grants to combat poverty.

What is disturbing is that we rank very low when it comes to social delivery, illustrated by the example of public school education. When we look at Matric passes and endorsements since 1988, we find that the quality of education is not improving. According to experts the school system is stagnating instead of improving. The country is facing infrastructure challenges. In the past 12 years the GDP has increased by almost 47% and if Asgisa is successful, it could increase by another 70% in the next ten years.

Close to 4,5 million new vehicles have been put on our roads. International trade has increased by almost 90%. Increased pressure is being placed on our transport system. The reduction of company tax to attract foreign investment is still a very controversial subject. Some experts, including the Treasury, are not convinced that it will lead to an increase in investment. In fact, some experts continue to question the wisdom of using tax as an incentive. Supporters are calling for a proper debate on the company tax regime. Surprisingly, low inflation has been sustained and we have had the longest post-war business cycle upswing. The major growth factor has unfortunately been domestic demand. The other matter of concern to the IFP has been the low savings rate.

The HIV/Aids problem is not likely to stagnate unless another approach to the problem is adopted. The growth challenge includes addressing historical barriers to broadbased development. The causes of unemployment are embedded in both the physical and sectoral structures of the economy, shaped for so long by barriers of urbanisation and modernisation and the distribution of skills and human capacity also held back for decades by apartheid policy and structures.

Sustained growth depends on capital formation and efficient service delivery. A core priority is to strengthen education and improve performance on the labour market. Investing in people and ensuring that skills development complements employment creation are critical platforms on which to build future prosperity.

More rapid economic growth requires South African business to identify products and production techniques in which they can achieve comparative advantages in global markets. It also requires a favourable investment environment and sound regulatory arrangements and the development of a more systematic industrial policy.

Rural communities need income generating growth and development. Infrastructure development underpins improved living conditions and job creation. The Minister of Finance, as usual, has provided the environment for development, service delivery and the eradication of poverty. It is now for the other departments to come to the party and stick to their strategic plans.

The IFP supports the Appropriation Bill. [Applause.]

Ms T V TOBIAS: Agb Van Dyk, dit lyk nie vir my of jy na die Minister geluister het gedurende sy toespraak nie. [Hon Van Dyk, it does not seem to me that you have been listening to the Minister during his speech.]

Hon Speaker, Ministers and members, this debate takes place a month after the state of the nation address and three months before the commemoration of the 30th anniversary of the June 16, 1976, uprising – during a month recognised as the month of the youth and therefore this debate should celebrate the opportunities that came with the sacrifices made by the generation of 1976, that of bringing a just and better life for all.

The youth of South Africa will be beneficiaries in a programme that our government has introduced, which is Asgisa, and which is also a continuation of the RDP.

In the state of the nation address President Mbeki indicated that:

In this year of the 30th anniversary of the Soweto uprisings we shall ensure that the focus on youth development is intensified in all spheres of government. Among other things, during the next financial year we will set up 100 new advisory centres, enrol at least 10 000 young people in the national youth service programme and enrol 5 000 volunteers to act as mentors to vulnerable children. This indeed is the deliverables that we will be able to measure as and when the current financial year proceeds. The Asgisa programme will also ensure that issues of skills development, education and unemployment is dealt with adequately and gradually to bring about change. The initial Appropriation Bill in which the Minister indicated that it provides expenditure of R260,6 billion, the bigger slice of which is allocated to provinces equitably, will ensure that issues of social cohesion are adequately addressed, also through the newly established South African Social Security Agency.

When we enter the age of hope our economy has expanded by 5% and we are envisaging a 5% or bigger growth and the Minister indicated that we need to prioritise the needs of the poor, and the gap between the rich and the poor is closing gradually, and the budget for skills development has seen the allocation of 114 000 study awards in 2005 and 20 707 youths registered for learnership programmes. The national youth service programme will integrate youth development programmes in the overall development agenda and the Recapitalisation of further education and training colleges will also see the light of day.

We also need to measure our economic development per capita income and check whether our country has really reached or is reaching a stage where we can regard it as a middle-income earning country, and check the education levels of our youth in particular, and the impact of social ills in our society, for example alcohol abuse, substance abuse and unhealthy lifestyles. Therefore we welcome the raise of sumptuary taxes and the Minister should continue to raise the latter to discourage these ills.

Our distribution of income should continue to better the lives of our people in such a way that dependency on social grants is minimised and we should tilt the scale of the human development index, and by doing so we would have addressed the negative position of poverty.

In my opinion, company taxes should be raised to prevent tax avoidance and we should not only pursue a so-called business-friendly approach as suggested by the DA, which at this point in case, implies that we need to further encourage monopolies. We should, instead, continue to tolerate the role that the private sector should play.

There is also the suggestion that we need to encourage savings and investments - as was just implied by the IFP - but it is just as baseless as we all know that in economic terms, saving is a leakage to the economy and social spending is an injection. So it will be misleading to utter such statements. The issue of corporate taxes being high in South Africa was not gauged on the basis of developed countries but on the basis of developing countries, which might not be as wealthy as our country, and this limits the scope of analysis to the DA. The DA must do its homework properly. Our fiscal policy is very consistent and correct, but we should also be alive to issues that relate to implementation and impact lag that might hamper our good work. Last but not least, South Africa, which has a population smaller than that of countries we provide peacekeeping support to, and are wealthier than, adheres to international protocols it has acceded to. It continues to provide leadership in areas of armed conflict and will ensure that we build a just order and a prosperous human race.

Infrastruktuur is een van die projekte van Asgisa. Kapasiteit is ook deel van die program. [Infrastructure is one of Asgisa’s projects. Capacity is also part of the programme.]

Consumer and investor confluence is one of the essentials of Asgisa, so there are no new suggestions that we have received.

Today we as the ANC support the Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr M DIKO: Madam Speaker, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, the United Independent Front accepts and appreciates the fact that there is now a provision in our legislation that will allow the Minister to appropriate money from the National Revenue Fund to adjust the Budget if any shortfalls arise.

We further appreciate that the spending of appropriations contemplated in this Bill will be subject to the Public Finance Management Act, whose purposes are to regulate financial management and to ensure that all revenue and expenditure are managed efficiently and effectively.

In order to ensure transparency and efficiency in spending, the UIF appeals to the National Treasury to ensure that the proper monitoring mechanisms are put in place that will ultimately ensure that only the intended projects or programmes and people will benefit from any intervention.

With such mechanisms in place, we hope that we will no longer witness incidents of unconcealed misappropriation of funds, as the one we saw during the run-up to the 1 March local government elections in which the National Youth Commission held a series of expensive events termed “voter education”, instead of fulfilling its statutory mandate of driving youth development.

Now that this commission is run from within the Presidency, we hope that the youth will begin to see real benefits in terms of which more resources are channelled towards their education and skills development. We further hope that this commission will stop being the white elephant it has been for a long time.

The UIF believes that the objectives of this Bill will only be achieved if the government addresses lack of capacity, especially to spend the budgets by different departments and municipalities. At the local government level, this intervention is urgently needed so that the people who voted in this month’s local government elections, amid promises of better, corruption- free and effective municipalities, can begin to realise their developmental needs and effective and affordable service delivery.

Although the Bill refers to political support staff, we are concerned that funding for smaller parties remains skewed. We hope that this appropriation Bill will allow the Minister to provide for any shortfall that might arise in this Budget.

The UIF supports this Bill. You are sleeping with the DA here in Beaufort West and also in Laingsburg. [Interjections.]

Mr L M GREEN: Speaker, this year’s Budget, like many of the previous ones, has received wide support from all sectors. Minister Manuel and the Treasury have once again managed to perform an excellent balancing act by giving limited tax cuts to the rich, combined with substantial government spending on poorer communities.

The Federation of Democrats supports the Appropriation Bill for the following reasons. The Budget proposes tax relief to the amount of R19,1 billion. Any tax relief for the individual taxpayer would be welcomed by the FD. Lower and middle-income groups are benefiting from individual income tax relief in the amount of R13,5 billion. The income threshold has been raised to R40 000 for individuals and R65 000 a year for taxpayers over the age of 65. In addition, the tax on retirement funds has been halved from 18% to 9%.

The FD hopes that this trend, Minister, is going to continue in the following budget year. We particularly welcome the raising of the threshold for pensioners, as we do the reduction of tax on retirement funds because this will encourage a culture of saving especially amongst our senior citizens.

The abolishment of transfer duty on houses below R500 000 has received broad support, especially from young married couples that are saving to buy their first home. The waiting lists for council houses are unacceptably long, and the FD would welcome any measures by government to encourage families to invest in their own homes.

We would also like to encourage the Minister and Treasury to explore other ways to encourage first-time homeowners to invest in their own homes, such as a tax reduction on savings used as a deposit on a first home.

The FD welcomes the tax incentives for small businesses announced by the Minister, such as the income-tax exemption threshold that has been raised from R35 000 to R40 000. We believe that the incentive is still too small, and we would like to see it raised to R60 000 in 2007 and possibly R80 000 in 2008.

In conclusion, with regard to our country’s economic growth, the Minister of Finance has often been referred to by the private sector’s The Economist as a “pathological optimist”, if I could quote them. However, the Minister being the optimist that he is, has often been more accurate in predicting our country’s economic growth than many economic gurus.

Minister Manuel, allow me to congratulate you on your tenth year as Minister of Finance. Since 1997, when you were appointed as the Minister of Finance, you have grown from strength to strength and today you are internationally recognised as one of the best finance Ministers, if not the best. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr K A MOLOTO: Madam Speaker, hon members, yesterday hon Davidson of the DA cited a certain financial publication that stated that the Budget is “unimaginative”, thereby indirectly implying that its of no consequence and cannot make any meaningful impact on the South African economy.

I just want to take a little bit of my time to refute this assertion. Let me take you through the performance of our economy or various sectors of our economy after the budgetary interventions this government has made. The construction industry has benefited greatly from the infrastructural projects initiated by this government. Currently the “big four” construction companies in South Africa, Murray and Roberts, Group Five, Aveng and WBHO have a collective order book exceeding R30 billion of contracts spread over the next three years. These are signed contracts, ready for implementation, or are in the implementation phase. In actual fact Grinaker LTA Construction, a subsidiary of Aveng, had to withdraw from the Middle East in order to concentrate on the opportunities offered by the domestic market and by these budgetary allocations.

The cement production industry is already investing more than R3 billion in new plants to meet the increasing demand for cement. We should also bear in mind that the construction industry is labour-intensive.

This Budget indicates that R372 billion will be spent on infrastructure development over the next three years. These are projects that are initiated by the three spheres of government and state-owned enterprises. These projects are critical to the development of road and rail infrastructure, power stations, hospital revitalisation and dam construction and housing, among other things. I’m mentioning some of these developments to refute this assertion that has been made by the hon Davidson.

The retail industry has also benefited greatly from the massive consumer spending encouraged by the reduction in personal tax and lower interest rates. However, I need to concede and concur with the view of the government that consumer-led growth is not sustainable in the long run. It is very susceptible to changes in interest rates. Any substantial hike in the interest rate could easily dampen the consumer boom. We definitely need producer-led growth.

Going back to the issue of the performance of the retail sector, one would easily realise that shopping malls across the country have experienced a phenomenal increase in the market value owing to lower vacancy rates. Obviously these lower vacancy rates are the result of a very strong consumer demand. This is a positive development for pension funds and insurance companies, which are mainly the owners of these shopping centres in South Africa. Let us bear in mind that it is workers’ pension money that is invested in these developments.

A better illustration of the phenomenal increase in the value of shopping malls is the case of Canal Walk in Cape Town, which claims to be the largest mall in Africa. It was sold two and a half years ago by Nedbank to Hyprop for R1,1 billion and is currently valued at R2,5 billion. This is double the price in less than three years. Again, although we welcome these developments, we need to sound a caution on the sustainability of consumer- led growth.

I’ve also been reliably informed that for the first time receipts of income generated by tourism exceed that of gold-mining. [Applause.] I’ve learnt that tourism is now regarded as the new gold and is an important source of foreign exchange. In 2005 receipts from transportation and travel, which is an indicator of tourism activity, exceeded R50 billion.

Let me turn my attention to a point that was raised by the hon Davidson. The argument that we should lower the corporate tax rate to 25% is failing to acknowledge that the government has already offered sufficient and good tax incentives to business to encourage it to invest in capital investment and production.

The accelerated depreciation allowance offered to business does incentivise business to undertake investments. In actual fact, if you look at the financial publications in South Africa, you will easily realise that business is doing well and reporting good profits.

I want to re-emphasise this point that we definitely need producer-led growth. Any accelerated and sustained growth can only be realised through massive private investment matched by strong infrastructural investment by government and state-owned enterprises. This Budget clearly spells out this path.

Eskom has a five-year capital expenditure plan that amounts to R98 billion. Transnet’s three-year capital expenditure plan amounts to R32 billion. This will address bottlenecks in the logistics chain.

One is also encouraged by Transnet for insisting that half of the manufactured content of its announced R3,5 billion locomotive acquisition programme will be carried out in South Africa. The import-reduction strategy of Transnet has to be followed by our state-owned enterprises, where possible. This intervention will strengthen the manufacturing industry in South Africa and put it on a solid foundation to claim its place in the global value chain.

This import-reducing strategy will have a multiplying effect across various sectors of our economy. It will strengthen South Africa’s manufacturing capacity in metal products, electrical and nonelectrical machinery, and transportation equipment, amongst other things.

The Engineering News of 10 to 16 March 2006 reported that more international companies are increasingly choosing South Africa as an off- shore location for their call centres. It indicated that the call centre industry already creates employment for 80 000 people and there are indications that 100 000 additional jobs should be created by 2009.

Funding allocated from this Budget to Sentech will increase broadband wireless coverage as well as investment in the East African marine system that connects South Africa and East African states to the global optical fibre network.

I’m mentioning this development to underline the importance of public investment matched by the private sector as a catalyst for accelerated growth. These are very exciting developments that create business processes outsourcing opportunities for South Africa.

Kenichi Omae, one of the world’s leading business strategists and former senior partner of McKinsey in Japan, analyses the opportunities arising from the business processes outsourcing across the globe. According to him, they range from architectural designs, IT support to back offices, operations linked to the financial services industry.

Prof Kenichi Omae’s seminal work, The Next Global Stage, emphasises the relationship between skilled labour, proper telecommunications infrastructure and competitiveness in business process outsourcing. South Africa is better placed to advance in this area because of these budgetary allocations.

Indeed, democracy has been good for business in South Africa. Together we can build a better country with growth shared among all our people. Ke a leboga. [Thank you.] The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Igama lamakhosikazi. [In the name of women.]

HON MEMBERS: Malibongwe! [Praise!]

The MINISTER OF FINANCE: Madam Speaker, hon members, let me start by expressing my appreciation to almost all of the 30 members who participated in the debate, both yesterday and today. I say almost all because some, of course, had to be different. Otherwise, Parliament would be too boring. I’m told that those who were different did so with the full approval of their colleagues just to liven up the debate. I think we recognise that.

I also want to express my appreciation for the multiparty support for the Budget and for this growing consensus on fiscal policy. We cannot take this consensus for granted, as it is manifested in support for the basic tenets of our economic outlook, fiscal and tax policy and budget choices.

At the same time we are not naive. It is the prerogative of the opposition to support or reject the policy choices that we make as a government. This is exercised by opposition parties everywhere – as in the House of Commons yesterday when the Chancellor of the Exchequer tabled his budget and about a month ago when the Indian Federal Parliament received the budget tabled by Minister Chidambaram, which was, in fact, received with much noise and debate.

The prerogative, as exercised by opposition parties, is frequently no different from the one that Stanley Baldwin referred to in his reference to the press when he said: “Power without responsibility - the prerogative of the harlot throughout the ages.”

The prerogative, when expressed by opposition parties, is frequently expressed as spend more, tax less and, almost always, raise the deficit. I’m sure that we want to say to the hon Van Dyk: You don’t close your umbrellas simply because the sun is shining. [Laughter.]

We have a consensus that goes beyond mere support and which poses tough questions that I have a constitutional duty to answer before this Assembly. I’ve extracted the following from the discussion. Firstly, are we doing enough to deal with the existence of real poverty? Secondly, are there sufficient pointers that direct towards sustainable job creation? Thirdly, is government doing enough to change the skills set available to the labour market? Fourthly, are we investing sufficiently in sustainable economic expansion? And, fifthly, do we know that the money we are appropriating here today will be spent as planned?

Let me address these five important questions raised, cognisant that the questions were raised by speakers from almost all the parties that participated in the debate. The additional R2,6 billion in social grants and transfers to the Social Security Agency takes spending on social security and welfare from R80,6 billion in the first year to R96,8 billion in the third year of the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework – an annual average growth rate of just under 10%.

Alongside the expanded income security net, our shared growth strategy also involves targeted welfare services and stronger partnerships with NGOs in the welfare sector. Addressing the impact of HIV and Aids and care of child- headed households are amongst the social service priorities that deal directly with real poverty in many of its manifestations.

The creation of sustainable jobs is an outcome that is achieved when various programmes of government align. It cannot succeed when the choices we make are confined to the creation of a business-friendly or business- oriented budget. We cannot confine our policy choices to the levels of corporate taxes, and leave it at that. A far more sensible approach is reflected in the 2006 Budget, which contains a policy mix that also includes the strengthening of education at all levels and steps to improve the performance of the labour market.

So this has to be about investing in people and ensuring that skills development complements employment creation, as these are critical platforms on which to build future prosperity that result in sustainable jobs. More specifically, the 2006 Budget builds an allocation of R1,5 billion, announced in the budget last year, for the recapitalisation of further education and training colleges.

Together with higher education, the total additional allocation over the next three years on these two programmes is just under R2,5 billion. Together with our learnership programmes and targeted tax incentives, we are making steady progress in ensuring that the skills set matches the needs of our growing economy.

Are we investing sufficiently in sustainable economic expansion? Here are the facts. The transport sector receives an additional R14,3 billion, with R1,9 billion for road infrastructure. Nearly R4 billion will be spent by the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry on the new De Hoop Dam and other dam projects and water schemes.

Let me also remind the National Assembly that infrastructure development by Public Enterprises accounts for about a third of overall capital estimates

• somewhere in the region of R50 billion by Eskom and R33 billion by Transnet. But investments that bring about sustainable economic expansion are not confined to infrastructure projects. This also involves investment in industrial development and science and technology, such as investments in nuclear technology and research infrastructure and complementary tax policy reforms that incentivise R&D. Let’s get to the question that members across the spectrum have placed firmly at government’s door: Is money being spent as planned? Some of the steps that we are taking include monthly reporting in terms of section 32 of the PFMA. Steps have also been taken to introduce quarterly performance reporting of provincial spending. In addition, the National Treasury undertakes a detailed comparison between initial projections and actual monthly and quarterly expenditure.

But, more importantly, annual reports are a statutory requirement that provides Parliament with the necessary instrument to assess whether appropriated funding has been used for its intended purpose, and whether it has achieved the policy outcomes envisaged.

This takes me to an exceedingly important question raised by the hon Mabe, who asked whether Parliament’s oversight role is adequate. I wish to turn the question slightly. Does Parliament adequately exercise the powers afforded it in the legislation? Again, a detailed response in five parts is necessary.

I want to start by appealing to all committees to engage with Ministries and departments over the next few weeks on ENE chapters on strategic plans and on annual reports. The Constitution does not expect a lapdog Parliament, so I appeal to you to engage with us.

Secondly, there is no reason why committees should have an annual discussion only or any rational reason why committees should wait for the Auditor-General’s reports, after the fact. We publish monthly expenditures, and Parliament should interrogate both the expenditure trends and enquire what the money bought.

Thirdly, Parliament and especially the National Assembly should consider a functional approach to spending. We were pleasantly surprised at the depth of investigation by the NCOP into conditional grants. Similarly, the NA must ask about health, education, social development and all other functions, and not take a restricted view confined by the norms of a national department.

Fourthly, engage us on the policy choices we exercise and ask about the costs of policies. We should know, we ought to know, and you have the right to ask that of us. Fifthly, think beyond the line-function confines and examine the policy linkages between that portfolio committee you serve in and the rest.

This will make for a far more active Parliament interested in oversight. “Let’s get away with far less than what the law asks of us” – we ask you to change that in your interactions with us. [Applause.]

This Parliament is endowed with more information on public finances than any of its counterparts anywhere. So don’t be afraid to use that. It’s a tall order but, I submit, necessary for the discharge of the responsibility of Parliament.

Beyond the fiscal policy choices, there are at least three other areas that are vital, but for whatever reason they were inadequately canvassed in the debate. These are, firstly, the role of the state as owner, initiator, regulator, creator of the environment, as purchaser and employer. Will we split the consensus on this matter? Is it worth a fuller examination? Why don’t we give ourselves a shot at this? A few years ago many would have believed that the consensus we now have on the other tenets of economic policy would have been impossible. This, I believe, is vital.

Secondly, there is the role of the private sector. Part of what this partner brings to the table is the patriotic and moral compliance with tax laws. Is it? Is it so compliant? Does it normally just part with money because the law says so? This goes beyond the obvious. The private sector is a critical partner, not only when entering into more efficient ways of funding certain government initiatives, but as partners in the shared growth strategy. But what do we ask of them, and what would they realistically respond to? They are clearly not the panacea for all ills.

Thirdly, there is the global economy. Our discussion really demands more detail on trends, on opportunities, on threats and on governance. Without these discussions, I’m afraid we’ll be shooting in the dark.

Finally, I’d like to express my appreciation to the committees and to those who participated in the hearings.

Let me conclude by reminding this House that the gallery of the Committee lost a fine member and a wonderful journalist with the passing away of Lynda Loxton last week. I pay my respects to her and to all those to whom she was close – her mom, her friends and her colleagues. We’ve lost a vital member of the gallery.

Thank you very much to all of you for your support and for your patience in listening to me this afternoon. Thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill read a first time.

                         OLDER PERSONS BILL


                       (Second Reading debate)

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Madam Speaker, hon members, the Older Persons Bill is one of the four Bills that were presented to the House in the year leading up to the last national elections, that is the year 2004, that were intended to promote the further fulfilment of the rights contained in the Constitution and consolidate the transformation of the social development sector. It is, therefore, fitting that the last Bill in the “four-pack” is making its way through Parliament in the year when we celebrate the 10th anniversary of the Constitution.

It is appropriate that our nation and society reflects upon the 10th anniversary of the Constitution with a deep sense of accomplishment. We are in the midst of a long journey to built a society based on democratic values, social justice and fundamental human rights.

We have made substantial progress in restoring the dignity of our people across the board in freeing their potential and building a better life for all. It is because of the historical experience of our people and our vision for the future that we are confidently saying that we are living in an age of hope. Nobody is better placed to bear witness to this fact than the older people in our society, and the Older Persons Bill is yet another milestone in this long journey.

The Older Persons Bill is intended to ensure that the rights, dignity and independence of older persons are upheld within the framework of the Constitution. It provides a framework aimed at the empowerment and protection of older persons, and the promotion and maintenance of their socio-economic status. We are determined to ensure that as people grow older, they enjoy a life of fulfilment, health, and security, and continue to participate actively in the economic, social, cultural and political life of our society. The dispensation in the Bill reaffirms the traditional esteem and status of older persons whilst acknowledging and supporting their changing roles in the face of contemporary social challenges. In this regard, I would once more, like to publicly acknowledge and pay tribute to the older people in our society who provide care and support to vulnerable and orphaned children.

From our legislative perspective, the Older Persons Bill is an acknowledgement that the Aged Persons Act 100/1967 (as amended) was hindering the creation of an enabling environment consistent with the developmental approach espoused by the current government. The old Act could not be aligned with the new developmental paradigm employed in the provision of services to older persons. It focused mainly on institutional care, which caters only for a minority population of older people, to the exclusion of the vast majority of older people, especially, those from previously disadvantaged groups.

Most older people who live in their own homes in the community, want to continue living in their own homes and therefore require appropriate community based services. In addition, services to older persons in this country have generally been deficient, both in terms of actual service delivery and the allocation of resources for these services. This is particularly true for older persons living in remote rural communities, who tend to live in extreme poverty and tend to be the most vulnerable.

As indicated earlier, the Bill was submitted for consideration by Parliament in the year 2000 after approval by Cabinet, and referred to the Select Committee of the National Council of Provinces in November 2003, which was also given a report on the cost implications of the Bill. The NCOP approved the Bill in June 2005 after provincial consultations.

Following the submission of the Bill to the Portfolio Committee on Social Development, and subsequent public hearings, the interested groups and the public, which occasioned further amendment of the Bill, raised a number of critical issues.

I am very grateful for the stakeholder groups and members of the public who have participated in public hearings and maintained a keen interest in the Bill as it made its way through Parliament. Your dedicated efforts have enabled us to fashion legislation that seeks to maintain and increase the capacity of older persons to support themselves and to continue to contribute to the wellbeing of those around them. By working together we have arrived at a Bill that recognises older persons as a valuable sector of society - a sector that possesses much knowledge, wisdom and expertise.

The Bill has far-reaching implications for older persons, their livelihoods and independent functioning. It is intended to enable intergenerational care and support within families and communities, and thus promotes the spirit of ubuntu. It recognises that services should also be extended to older persons who are frail but are able to continue living in the community. It also recognises that there will always be those older persons that will require institutional care. With respect to institutions of care, the Bill protects the rights and dignity of older persons by ensuring that no older person will be placed in these facilities without their consent, unless their mental condition renders them incapable of giving such consent. Stringent measures are being put in place to ensure that only those who are eligible for admission in these facilities are considered for admission.

The Bill, which must be read in conjunction with other legislation, also puts in place measures to curb the abuse of older persons, both within community settings and in residential care facilities. We recognise that these measures by themselves are insufficient to ensure that older persons are treated with the respect they deserve and that their rights and dignity are protected.

An extensive educational campaign is required - directed at both older persons themselves and the broader society - to create understanding about the rights of older persons, the measures in the Bill that ensures the protection of these rights, and the remedies provided for, where these rights are violated.

The new dispensation that will be created by the Bill has resource implications. And costing of the Bill, which was done in partnership with the National Treasury, will ensure that appropriate budgetary provisions are factored into the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework at both provincial and national level. This costing provides for the progressive realisation of the objectives of the Bill, whilst ensuring that the basic and urgent needs of older persons are provided for.

Before closing these opening remarks, I would like again to express my sincere appreciation to all the role-players and stakeholders who took interest in this Bill and made their inputs during various stages of its development.

The Human Rights Commission has had an ongoing interest in the Bill and has attended to the issues with keen interest. Numerous interest groups and members of the public participated in the public hearings and their inputs have significantly improved the Bill. Various government departments assisted in the development of this Bill and will play their respective roles in ensuring successful implementation.

In addition, officials from the national and provincial departments of social development have worked long hours in maintaining the momentum in preparation and consideration of the Bill.

Lastly, I am indebted to the select committee in the NCOP for the admirable manner in which they conducted their oversight and legislative functions, as well as their guidance and leadership in the development of this Bill.

It is, therefore, fitting that the Older Persons Bill will be passed by Parliament in the year that we celebrate the 10th anniversary of our Constitution. The older persons in our country could not ask for a better reaffirmation of their rights, aspirations, hopes and status in society. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs T J TSHIVHASE: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Ministers, Deputy Ministers and hon Members of Parliament, I greet you all this afternoon. I will be focussing on the memorandum, the overview and the protection of the older persons regarding the Bill.

Ndi wonoyu muvhuso u wothe wo rangwaho phanda nga ANC u dzhielaho vhaaluwa na pfanelo dzavho dzothe ntha. ANC i ditongisa nga mbekanyamushumo dzi tevhelaho, dzi pfumbisaho pfanelo dza vhaaluwa, sa tsumbo, Batho Pele, better life for all, free basic services, na zwinwe zwinzhi. (Translation of Tshivenda paragraph follows.)

[It is only the ANC-led government that acknowledges the older persons and other people’s rights. The ANC is proud of the following programmes that promote the older persons’ rights, for example, Batho Pele, a better life for all, free basic services and others.]

We are indeed a caring society and they are the true custodians of culture. Growing old should be a period when a person’s contribution to society is acknowledged and valued. In poor communities old people make valuable contribution to households as carers for children, people with disabilities and those affected and infected by HIV and Aids.

This Bill seeks to maintain and increase the capacity of older persons to support themselves and to contribute to the wellbeing of those around them. The objects of the Bill are to maintain and promote the status, wellbeing, safety and security of older persons; to maintain and protect the rights of older persons as recipients of services; to regulate the registration of facilities for older persons; and to combat the abuse of older persons.

The Portfolio Committee on Social Development, as the Minister has already indicated, did not want to rush the Bill in processing it. This is because the civil society was more attracted to it. We observed this by the number of both oral and written submissions to the public hearings where in certain instances we had to burn the midnight oil. Since the first public hearings, more NGOs and CBOs attended our committee meetings. About 27 organisations and eight individuals submitted written and oral submissions and presented them to the portfolio committee.

First of all, the Bill and its proposed amendments seeks to address the needs of older persons living in communities by spelling out the kind of services that would support older persons, and by setting up the framework within which such services would be funded and offered in a manner that respects and promotes their dignity and right to independent living.

Furthermore, the conditions for registering community-based facilities such as luncheon clubs are spelt out in the Bill. Similarly, the Bill details the procedures for monitoring norms and standards in the delivery of such services. It has also been argued that, in the context of extreme poverty, older persons are vulnerable to abuse.

Hune mundende wa vhaaluwa wa vha u wone u kholophaho muta, u wana henefho mutani mualuwa e ene a no wana zwiliwa zwitukutuku, zwi songo teaho, ngeno tshelede i tshi khou dzheniswa ngae. Na ene u wana a sa koni na u amba uri tshelede i tea u shumiswa hani. U wana a sa koni na u zwi vhona zwauri u khou tambudzwa lwa ikonomi.

Vha dovha hafhu vha vha zwipondwa nga murafho wa vhaswa. Vha vhiga tshifhinga tshothe zwauri mindende yavho i dzhiiwa nga khani nga vhaduhulu vhavho. Na zwa uri ndaka yavho i rengiswa vha songo zwi tendela kana u vhudzwa. Na zwauri a vha na ndila dza u tsireledza pfanelo dza ndaka dzavho. (Translation of Tshivenda paragraphs follows.)

[In cases where families rely entirely on the older person’s grant, you find that the older person is given very little to eat, which is inappropriate, since she is the one who provides a source of income. She has no say regarding the utilisation of her money. You find that she is not even aware that she is being abused economically.

They are also victims of abuse at the hands of the young generation. They always lay complaints that their grants are forcibly taken by their grandchildren. Furthermore, their properties are sold without their consent. They have no means of protecting their properties.]

Chapter 5 of the Older Persons Bill deals with the protection of older persons against abuse. It provides a detailed definition of abuse. Abuse includes any conduct that comprises physical violence, or the threat thereof, towards an older person, or conduct that violates the older person’s sexual integrity.

Abuse also includes behaviour that forms part of continued degrading or humiliating treatment of the older person, or withholding of economic resources that the older person is rightfully or reasonably entitled to. It further makes elder abuse a criminal offence, and sets out the procedures to be followed, should such abuse be suspected or reported.

Clause 25 provides that any person who suspects that an older person is being abused should immediately report suspicion of abuse to the director- general or the police.

Arali muhumbulelwa kana mavharivhari a u tambudzwa a songo vhigiwa, o zwi vhonaho u wanala mulandu nahone a newa faini kana a gwevhiwa minwaha mitanu e dzhele kana zwothe. DG na mapholisa vha tea u sala mulandu u yo murahu zwi tshi ya nga nzulele yawo.

Clause dzi tevhelaho dzi tendela mualuwa uri a nga bviswa arali mutakalo wawe u sa tendi. I dovha hafhu ya tendela na u bviswa ha mutambudzi khumbulelwa afha hayani ha mualuwa. (Translation of Tshivenda paragraphs follows.)

[In instances where the suspect, or suspicion of abuse, is not reported, whoever has witnessed that is found guilty and is fined, or a five-year sentence is imposed on him, or both. The DG and police must pursue the case depending on its nature.

The following clauses provide for the older persons to be redeemed from all forms of ill treatment. It further provides that the alleged perpetrator be thrown out of the older person’s house.]

It must also be noted that the provisions of the Domestic Violence Act, Act 116 of 1998, can be applied in cases of physical abuse regarding an older person. Persons who come into contact with older persons in a professional capacity, such as a social worker, a religious leader or a health practitioner, may report the matter to the police, upon which a report or an investigation must be undertaken to ensure that the older person is protected.

Ndi mushumo washu rothe kha vhupo vhune ra dzula khaho u pota vhatambudzi vha vhaluwa vhashu kha mulondotavhapo kana DG o newaho muvhigo uri a ite tsedzuluso ya mafhungo ayo. Mualuwa a songo shuma zwitaratani, u humbela vhudzulo, u tambudzwa lwa vhudzekani, u vhewa kha nyimele ine ya huvhadza mihumbulo yawe, u naledzwa na u vhaiswa muvhili.

Vhukando vhu tevhelaho vhu tea u dzhiwa musi thodisiso dzi kati: Mualuwa kha gidimiselwe vhuongeloni arali o huvhadzwa kana iswe vhukhudoni; nahone mapholisa vha mbo di vhigelwa mulandu sa zwe sekisheni 27 ya zwi vheisa zwone, u itela uri linwalo la khothe li bve nahone phondi i mbo di farwa tshenetsho tshifhinga. (Translation of Tshivenda paragraphs follows.)

[It is our duty in our respective communities to report the older persons’ abusers to the social workers or the DG who received the report in order for him to investigate this matter. Older persons must not beg in the streets, nor ask for accommodation, nor be sexually abused, nor be placed in a situation that torments him or her emotionally, and neither must he or she be physically abused.

The following steps must be taken while investigations are underway: If the older person is assaulted, she must be rushed to hospital or any other place of safety. It must also be reported to the police as cited in section 27, and the court order must be issued and then the suspect must be arrested immediately.]

The Bill requires the Minister to keep a register of abuse of older persons. All notifications of abuse must be included in the register, together with the particulars regarding each notification. In addition, the Minister is required to keep a register of all persons convicted of abusing the older persons. No person who has been convicted may operate or be employed at a residential facility or community-based service for older persons.

In conclusion, awareness of elder abuse has also been brought into focus through, inter alia, the advocacy of international bodies such as the United Nations, the World Health Organisation and the International Network for the Prevention of Elder Abuse.

The Bill places the responsibility for reporting elder abuse on the shoulders of every member of the community, where they know that it is happening. The SAPS must be trained in the procedures to follow upon receiving a report of alleged abuse, and they must be trained about the special needs of older persons in these circumstances.

Vhathu vha hashu, kha ri fune vhaaluwa vhashu, sa zwine Bivhili ya khou zwi vheisa zwone. Ri na mashudu ngauri vhaaluwa ndi ifa lashu. Vhutali hothe ri vhu wana khavho nahone kha ri vha fune, ngauri ri zwine ra vha zwone namusi nga mulandu wavho. Ri a vha funa vhaaluwa vhashu nahone kha ri vha tsireledze. Ndi a livhuha. [U vhanda zwanda.] (Translation of Tshivenda paragraph follows.)

[Fellow-people, let us love older persons, as stated in the Bible. We are lucky because older persons are our custodians. They are our source of wisdom and we are obliged to love them, since we are what we are today because of them. We love our elders, so we must protect them. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Ms H WEBER: Madam Deputy Speaker, the amended Older Persons Bill has been around for a long time and I was pleased to be on the committee that discussed and formulated the amendments. Here I would like to recognise the people from the public who were so dedicated in assisting us. [Applause.]

Although it is not a perfect Bill, it is an improvement on the proposed legislation, which first came before the committee.

The greatest challenge in formulating these amendments was creating a legislative environment, which would help our elderly to live in more comfort and safety than they do at the moment.

In accordance with world trends the idea of the Bill is to keep the elderly in their communities with their families for as long as possible where they can feel productive and where they can be in the company of the people they have known all their lives.

While living in one’s community is the ideal, we also know that the elderly are sometimes abused, mistreated and exploited by their families. The Bill goes a long way towards addressing the problems that may arise.

We are all too well aware of how many situations arise in South Africa every day of the elderly being physically attacked even by their own family members.

The amendments go a long way towards developing a more protective environment for the elderly in cases of abuse, by ensuring that the abuser and not the abused is removed from the premises when this becomes necessary. Clearly, it is grossly unfair that the victim is removed rather than the abuser. Economic abuse is also addressed. Often a pensioner is the only source of income in a family, and this sometimes leads to a situation where they are virtually held hostage by their families for their money.

The rules of admission to institutions have been relaxed, which brings the Bill in line with the Bill of Rights. The DA welcomes this, as a much needed progressive step. Although this is a fair Bill there is certainly room for improvement.

Pensioners’ discounts are available from a wide range of goods and services in South Africa, in recognition of the fact that the elderly are a particularly needy and vulnerable group. So, why are government departments so slack in following the good example of the private sector?

For instance, you will see in this Bill that no mention is made of subsidised transport for the elderly. That is because the Department of Transport did not come and give a presentation as was requested. This is hugely disrespectful to both the committee and the elderly.

In many countries around the world it is recognized that the elderly should be entitled to special concessions for public transport, particularly at non-peak times when trains and buses are not running at full capacity. It would take little effort, and it would make little difference to financial bottom lines to put such a concession in place in South Africa. But it seems that the Department of Transport can’t be bothered.

Furthermore, no mention is made of RDP housing for the elderly, because the Department of Housing also failed to give a presentation as we requested.

For the plight of the elderly to be improved there has got to be co- operation between all departments involved in issues relevant to the problem. This was sorely lacking in the process of developing this Bill.

The DA welcomes the introduction of SASSA, which will see the centralisation of grant payments to a new body. It is anticipated that this will make the manipulation of the social welfare system by the dishonest far more difficult and ensure that welfare money goes to those who really need it. The co-operation between SASSA and Home Affairs makes sense and we hope this will be speedily and effectively implemented.

We also look forward to the day when old people will no longer be forced into funeral schemes or grocery schemes, or have dealings with cash loan sharks who unscrupulously prey on the ignorance of the elderly. Presuming that these provisions are properly enforced, it will now be far more difficult to get away with activities such as this. Yet legislation on its own is not enough. For example, an active, high- profile and ongoing publicity campaign is needed to ensure that the elderly know they have rights, and how they can implement them. Many of the elderly are illiterate, so booklets and pamphlets will not address the needs of everyone. We call on government to encourage rural radio stations to broadcast programmes educating the elderly on what to do if they are exploited or abused, and for government itself to vigorously promote this new legislation in the media.

We also call on the Department of Health to speed up the supply of aids such as hearing aids and hip replacements necessary for the elderly to spend their twilight years in comfort. Waiting lists are so long that many of the supposed beneficiaries are dead by the time they can be offered an operation.

We ask for better services from clinics, and in particular more staff at these clinics, so the elderly do no have to spend all day waiting, only to be told to return a week later. In particular, we need more nurses at clinics. It is not good enough to produce fuzzy human resource plans if these plans contain no goals or time frames. We need real commitment to measurable targets.

Much of the older persons’ plight could be alleviated if we had more social workers. The number of social workers in South Africa falls short of the minimum requirement by over 70%. What is worse, the government’s calculation on the estimated minimum number of social workers required in each province is based on the ratio of one social worker per 5 000 people. The department has admitted that it should be 1:1 500 people. In other words, even if there was a full complement of social workers in terms of the government’s figures, they would still be grossly understaffed and overworked.

The problems are poor pay and lack of sufficient attention to working conditions. As more and more social workers leave, a larger burden falls on those who remain, making conditions even more intolerable.

The training of new social workers to keep up with the loss is not even remotely sufficient to meet the need. Even without further losses from the ranks of employed social workers, the number of social workers being trained means we will not be able to fulfil our obligation in 40 years.

We request that the Minister looks into this matter with the utmost urgency. The loss of social workers must be addressed. Even if we pay large retention packages, it will not stop the loss.

We suggest that a committee be set up to look at the training of auxiliary social workers specific to the needs of South Africa. This should be cut to two years and hopefully attract dedicated young people who would be committed to assisting those in need. While formal social worker training is to be acknowledged, we do have in most of our rural and informal developing communities particular and urgent needs.

We could introduce and fund a two-year qualification for the thousands of young people who have matriculated and cannot find employment. Let us use this pool to enrich both their lives and those of the elderly.

I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. [Applause.]

Ms I W DIREKO: Hon Deputy Speaker, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members of Parliament, Commissioner Tom Manthata of the SA Human Rights Commission, who is a champion of the rights of the elderly…[Applause.] … He is sitting somewhere in the gallery with other key role-players from civil society.

It is befitting that the oldest political organisation in this country, the ANC, is now going the extra mile, through this piece of legislation we are debating today, to champion the cause of the older persons of our country.

For too long older persons, grandmothers, grandfathers, old uncles and all of those who fall into this category have been subjected to harsh conditions of neglect and poor service. The ANC, once again consistent in its commitment to creating a better life for all and building a caring society that respects the rights of citizens, is today part of this process of introducing legislation aimed at creating an enabling and protective environment for older persons.

The passing of the Older Persons Bill this afternoon is a significant moment in the lives of older persons, including myself, throughout South Africa, particularly those older persons in rural and poor communities. The debate this afternoon also comes during the week in which we celebrate Human Rights Day and celebrate our human rights, including our older persons’ rights to equality, dignity, access to social services and health care services, amongst other things.

The Bill we are debating today reflects the current international development and human rights-based approach to aging in which older persons remain independent participants in their communities for as long as is humanly possible.

It strives to give effect to the United Nations Principles for Older Persons, which state that older persons are entitled to care, dignity, independence, self-fulfilment and the opportunity to participate in family and community life.

The Bill sets out, in chapter two, a framework for creating and establishing a supportive and enabling environment for older persons who live within communities. This is further supported by chapter three, which provides framework legislation for community-based care and support services for older persons.

These chapters are urgently needed as the current Aged Persons Act, which dates back to 1967 and, despite the amendments in 1994 and 1998 to remove offensive racially discriminatory provisions, has become obsolete in its approach to ageing in that it focuses on residential facilities for older persons.

We, older persons, are not pieces of furniture which can be pushed they get old. [Applause.] As we know, the vast majority of older persons, about 99%, live in communities. Very few of our older persons live in old age homes. The thought of placing our elderly in homes for the elderly is not regarded as African in many communities. We therefore need to provide support and community – based services to our elderly in order that they can be assisted to continue living with dignity in communities.

Older persons living in the communities need support. They need practical support in the form of ensuring that all possible avenues of social assistance are made available to them speedily, efficiently and in a caring manner. In order to achieve this, a number of programmes have been identified. Clause 11 of the Bill sets out the community-based programmes for older persons. The clause provides for two categories of community-based programmes. The first provides for the establishment of prevention and promotion programmes, which ensure the independent living of an older person in the community in which the older person resides.

The second category of community-based programmes provides for home-based care programmes that ensure that a frail, old person receives the maximum care within the community through a comprehensive range of integrated services.

This afternoon I will highlight just two programmes that will go some way in assisting the older persons in our communities that are particularly vulnerable and marginalised. We live in a rapidly changing world and country. The Bill responds to these realities by providing for different programmes for the elderly. For example, the scourge of Aids and its impact on older persons in our country is startlingly apparent. There are many grandmothers caring for their HIV/Aids-affected grandchildren.

Instead of reaching an age where they can look forward to reducing their financial and caretaking concerns, old people are faced with the responsibility of providing for their orphaned grandchildren. Not only has this pandemic placed a heavy burden on older persons, who also have to contend with economic hardships caused by the high rate of youth unemployment, which places an extra burden on them because these are their grandchildren.

That is why Dr Monde Makiwane, a research specialist at the Human Sciences Research Council, who conducted a study on the elderly in Mpumalanga, refers to our elderly as “unsung heroes and heroines of the current pandemic and poverty brought about by unemployment”.

These unenviable situations in which our elderly find themselves indicate that more needs to be done to support and assist them. They are the backbones of many communities, the ones who are caring for those who are dying. In fact, an older person who cares for their children living with Aids is the last phase between the dying and death. also taking on the responsibility for the children who are left orphaned.

These grandmothers need education and training on how to care for those who are infected with Aids. They need emotional support on how to deal with the devastating impact of the disease and also how to bring up their grandchildren and deal with the generation gap, which is increasing at a rapid rate.

Older persons need the support in order to be empowered to take on these burdens. Most importantly, they want to be acknowledged and not to feel that they are being taken for granted, as when our young people go dumping children on their grandmothers.

The Bill seeks to address these issues by providing for programmes in clause 11(2)(c), which will provide information, education, and counselling services, including with regard to HIV and Aids, care for orphans and basic emergency care.

The new chapter three in the Bill entitled “Community-based Care and Support Services” distinguishes between community services that promote the independence and empowerment of older persons, and home-based services, which provide care to the frail and house-bound. The Bill seeks to…[Time Expired.] [Applause.]

Mrs I MARS: Chairperson, hon Ministers, and colleagues, I would like to say that, in a perfect world, we would honour older people and ensure that they live their lives in comfort, surrounded by loving families and friends, and in a caring community that will treat them with affection and respect.

However, there are differences between that world and the real world, and the realities that older people have to face are poverty, the breakdown of family and community structures, and the scourge of death among the younger generation adding increased burdens on older persons, resulting in both emotional and financial responsibility.

Older persons, over recent decades, have increasingly become victims of abuse, in its many manifestations. Physical, financial and psychological, sexual and institutional abuse must be highlighted. The saddest aspect of this is that abuse frequently involves family members and caregivers, and what is more, it frequently remains unreported.

We therefore welcome the Older Persons Bill. It not only sets out to protect older persons, of which I am also one, but also aims to enhance the dignity and status conferred on all citizens as per our Constitution.

In the past, legislation concerned itself mainly with residential facilities. This Bill, however, acknowledges that the majority of our people not only lack access to such facilities and, more importantly, recognises that it is far more desirable for the mental, physical and emotional wellbeing of older people to remain in their communities and in familiar surroundings. In circumstances like that, they can contribute and be participants in the world around them.

Older people have much to give in terms of counsel and wisdom, and their wellbeing can be monitored by the community. This approach, expressed in the Bill, i.e. community-based care and support services, must be welcomed by all. Currently this concept is practiced by some community-based organisations and nongovernmental organisations, and we hope that our new initiative will create the partnerships for the benefit of older people.

We, however, have one concern that we would like to take up for further discussion. The Minister has actually alluded to this, and given us some of the answers. The concern is about the implementation phase, which, no doubt, will be handled by the provinces. With the departments of welfare being gradually depleted by transfers to the SA Social Service Agency, are adequate resources and staff available to implement this accelerated demand on social services?

We not only have to bear in mind the shortages - other speakers have alluded to this in greater detail because they had more time – of social workers, but also the fact that many public servants in this sector face charges of corruption, which already have led to almost 600 prosecutions.

In supporting this important Bill on behalf of the IFP, I wish to acknowledge the tremendous input on social development legislation by concerned organisations and individuals. A lot of their time and energy is focused on the wellbeing of our most marginalised citizens, and we thank them for it.

Lastly, I want to quote one of our younger committee members, who said that she needed to ensure that this Bill would adequately protect her when she was old. We believe that this Bill creates the framework to do just that. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms N C NKABINDE: Chairperson and hon members, there are various cultures that make up this diverse nation that have many things in common. One of them is a deep respect for older persons.

Older people have always played a central role in our cultures and communities. This, however, has come under threat from a variety of sources, especially during the course of the last century. The role of older people has been affected by factors such as apartheid and its forced removals, skewed settlements and labour demands, combined with urbanisation and modern lifestyles.

Whereas older people have always been central to our cultures, more and more older people have found themselves abandoned or the victims of abuse and exploitation.

When we speak of the unravelling of the social fabric, it is often the older people who find themselves stranded in circumstances that they do not understand, and are not equipped to cope with. As we build a new and more just society under democracy, we are morally obliged to address also the plight of the elderly.

For these reasons, we welcome the Bill with its focus on the rights of older persons and the community-based care approach. It is time that we return older people to the centre of our communities where we can care for them, as they have cared for us, and where we can benefit from their experiences and wisdom. We sincerely hope that the authorities will enforce the Bill enthusiastically. The UDM supports the Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs C DUDLEY: Chairperson, hon Ministers, the ACDP is in support of this Bill that goes a long way in preserving and protecting the rights of the elderly. The extensive consultations with organisations serving the elderly and the commitment of the portfolio committee to ensuring that the real issues were addressed and not just glossed over has been inspirational. The department is also to be commended.

The radical new approach of this Bill shifts the focus on the elderly from just seeing them as recipients of grants or objects of welfare to persons with rights. The elderly may now be seen holistically and as a group of people in the same way that youth or women are.

The contribution of the elderly in society past and present deserves to be acknowledged and valued, and society should not squander the opportunity to benefit from the wisdom of their years. Many who gave so generously to fight for freedom, growth and development in South Africa find themselves, in their twilight years, marginalised and vulnerable, and having to fight the most difficult fight of their lives, growing old in a society that does not adequately cater for their needs. The aged and organisations providing care for them are extremely marginalised and find it very difficult to raise awareness or find funding for programmes and projects, which can benefit all communities. The inclusion of dementia in the Bill means that, at last, in line with other countries in the world, this condition is now a recognised medical condition, and will therefore, hopefully, be accepted by medical aid schemes, etc, as an illness which requires medication, support and care.

In some countries, …

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Order, hon member, your one minute has expired.

Mrs C DUDLEY: I’ve got three minutes …

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Can I check with the Table? Is it one minute or three? Three. The clock is on –41. Can we just adjust the clock and then allow Mrs Dudley to finish? Thank you. Please proceed, hon member.

Mrs C DUDLEY: Thank you. In some countries, funding is allocated for research projects, support and skills development to better care for professional, community-based and family-based carers. Research is critically needed in South Africa to fully understand the extent and the number of people affected by dementia in our communities, particularly by the HIV/Aids dementia complex.

Because of this great lack of understanding and knowledge, sufferers are left undiagnosed and become the victims of financial, emotional and physical abuse in their community. Families struggle to cope and many times are in denial about the illness.

The growth and demand for the services of organisations such as Dementia South Africa, the need for information and desperate need for skills development necessitates urgent consultation, dialogue and planning with government departments to ensure that we start addressing the needs of our aging communities, and ensure that they are treated with humanity, dignity, love and support.

This is a fitting debate, having just celebrated Human Rights Day. It is time for the spotlight to be on the needs of the aging in South Africa, and the plight of the elderly.

Thanks must go to the many organisations and individuals who have worked on the Older Persons Bill, including the carers and families who submitted their stories of how dementia and Alzheimer’s disease have impacted on their lives, and the challenges that they face. God bless you.

Of course, the real test of this Bill will be in the implementation. So, hon Minister, all eyes are on you and your colleagues, and your respective departments. I thank you. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr G Q M Doidge): Thank you, Ms Dudley. We apologise for that interruption.

Mr B M SOLO: Chairperson, hon Ministers and Deputy Ministers, hon members and fellow South Africans, the role played by older persons in shaping social norms, values and standards cannot be undermined. The care and wisdom they contribute to families, communities, cultural, religious and social groupings have contributed to social cohesion, stability and control.

Sonke silapha nje sikhulele phantsi kwengqeqesho yabantu abadala. Wonke umntu unoyisemkhulu kunye noninakhulu, nokuba abangabo balapha endlwini. Abantu abadala bafundisa ngobomi nendlela ekuphilwa ngayo ngabantu. Ekuhlaleni phaya nakwiintsapho zethu abantu abadala baye babizwe xa kukho iingxaki ezijongene nomzi othile, nokuba umntu omdala lowo akazalani kuloo mzi. Maxa wambi abanye babizwa bekude ukuba beze baze kusombulula loo ngxaki.

Loo nto siyibona kakuhle isenzeka kwiincwadi ezibhalwe ngababhali abamnyama ezifana nezi: Ityala Lamawele, Ingqumbo Yeminyanya, Ukuba Ndandazile, Buzani Kubawo, Inene Nasi Isibhozo nezinye. Abantu abadala bayinxalenye ebalulekileyo yobomi bethu, ngoko ke uluntu kufuneka lubonakalise ukubathakazelela, ngoba sithi sifunde kubo indlela engcono yokuphila.

Masiphinde sijonge umQulu Wenkululeko, lowa esithi xa siwubiza ngesilungu sithi yi-Freedom Charter. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[All of us were brought up under the guidance of old people. Everybody had a grandmother and grandfather at a certain point in their lives, even if it was not a direct relationship. Old people teach us about life and ways by which people live. In our communities different families consult old people when problems arise, even if the person might not be directly related to the family that has presented a problem. Sometimes they are called from far away to come and help to solve a particular problem.

That way of life is documented in books such as Ityala Lamawele, Ingqumbo Yeminyanya, Ukuba Ndandazile, Buzani Kubawo, Inene Nasi Isibhozo and many others that were written by black African people. Elderly people are part of our lives. Therefore people need to show appreciation of them because we say that from them we have learnt ways to live life better.

For guidance, perhaps we need to consult the Freedom Charter.]

It says that the aged, the orphans, the disabled and the sick shall be cared for by the state.

Yiloo nto ke namhlanje siqulunqa lo Mthetho uyilwayo ukuze siqinisekise ukuba abantu abadala bakhuselekile, bahleli ngolonwabo. [We are debating this Bill today because we want to ensure that the aged are protected and that they live happily.]

The Bill presented to this House provides for community-based care and support as a means of ensuring that care and support are provided to those persons who supported and cared for us. Of course clause 11(1)(a) and (b) sum up almost all the provisions contained in chapter 3 of the Bill. The aim of these would be to recognise the contribution that older persons make in community life and to create an environment in which their continued participation in the community is promoted as most of our older persons live with their families or live alone, and in many instances support extended families.

Accordingly, the Bill has to ensure that it deals with their situations and protection within communities, as well as maintain and increase the capacity of older persons to support themselves and contribute to the wellbeing of those around them, including provisions for the broader recognition of the needs of the older persons and the role they are able to play in communities.

In 2001 a ministerial committee found that the abuse and neglect of the elderly were common in residential homes, hospitals, within families, in communities, among persons queueing at pension payouts and in government offices.

The “age of hope” the President spoke about, for older and frail people, can be realised through the many provisions contained in this Bill. Therefore all of us, as South Africans and as professionals, service providers, NGOs and CBOs, religious and faith-based organisations, traditional leaders and healers need to join hands and do our best to ensure that in entering the “age of hope” our older persons are taken on board and that all the issues pertaining to them are addressed.

Njengokuba sihleli apha nje, abanye bethu sele beengwevu. Masithembe ukuba xa sele soluphele, singasakwazi nokuhamba, siya kunonotshelwa. Izolo bendikwesinye isibhedlele, endingazi kusibiza ngagama, ndibukele umakhulu ehamba nomzukulwana wakhe. Kuye kwafuneka ukuba akhuphe imali kwesi sibhedlele. Ndibone isandla sakhe singcangcazela, kubonakala ukuba yimali yokugqibela nale ayikhuphayo. Ngelishwa ke, bendingaphethanga mali kum, mhlawumbi ngendimncedisile.

Njengoko noMphathiswa ebetshilo apha, kuza kufuneka ukuba abantu bafundiswe ngamalungelo abantu abadala, bengafundiswa zikolweni ke phofu, kodwa phaya ekuhlaleni, emibuthweni, koomasingcwabane nasezicaweni. Uya kufika bebaninzi apho ke abantu abadala. Singavuya ke ukuba isebe eli belinokuya kuvela ngokwalo ezicaweni, liye kujonga ukuba lingancedisa njani apho ngoba bayagcwala phaya abantu abadala.

Kubhaliwe naseBhayibhileni kwathiwa: “Ningalili njengabangena themba, ngoba emzini kaBawo zininzi iindawo zokuhlala.”

Ngoko ke kufuneka sibalungiselele kwalapha, babuphile obu bomi beselapha emhlabeni. Sicela ke namalungu ePalamente ukuba aphume iphulo lokuya kufundisa abantu. Le nto ayifuni mali; ifuna nje ukuba siye ebantwini, sithethe nabo. Ndiyazi ke ukuba thina kuKhongolozi kuyanyanzeleka ukuba ngalo lonke ixesha sibe sezintlanganisweni. Kodwa ndiyathemba ukuba siya kuzipha ithuba lokuqinisekisa ukuba abantu abadala baphetheka ngendlela efanelekileyo kwaye baphila ubomi obungcono njengamntu wonke. Nalapho kwizithuthi zikawonke-wonke mabangatyhalelwa ecaleni, kuthiwe, “Makhulu uyaphi kanye kanye, mela ecaleni.” Noko mabaphathwe ngendlela efanelekileyo.

Siza kucela ulutsha ngokunjalo ukuba nalo luncedisane nathi kulo mba. NoMongameli simvile esithi sikwiminyaka yokuphila ngethemba. Ngoko ke masithi xa siphuma apha, emva kokuba siwuphumezile lo Mthetho uyilwayo, abe wonke umntu woMzantsi Afrika, omtsha nomdala, ebona ukuba ithemba likhona, kwanokuba ubomi obungcono sele sibufumene. Ndiyabulela. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.) [Some of our colleagues here have turned grey in the head. Let us hope that when we have also grown very old and can hardly walk, we would be cared for. Yesterday I visited a certain hospital, the name of which I will not mention, and saw an old woman walking with her grandson. She had to pay hospital fees. Her hand shook as she was taking the money out to make the payment and it occurred to me that that could be the last of her pension grant. Unfortunately, I did not have any money with me at that time or otherwise I would have paid for her.

People in general need to be educated about the rights of the aged in our respective communities, community organisations, funeral associations and churches and the Minister has already alluded to that. Such places are where you would find elderly people. We would even like to suggest that the ministry visits churches to see how it could assist because it is at churches where many elderly people usually are.

In the Bible it is said that we should not cry as though we do not have hope, for in the Father’s house there are many dwelling places.

We should care for them whilst they are still among us. I would like to challenge all members of Parliament to go and educate people. There are no costs involved in this exercise. It just needs people to commit themselves to go and talk to the communities. I know, however, that ANC members always need to attend meetings. I do hope, though, that we shall give ourselves time to ensure that the aged are cared for in an appropriate manner and that they live a better life like everybody else. Commuters using public transport also need to be sensitised to this important issue.

I would also like to extend this invitation to the youth to assist us in regard to this exercise. The President said that South Africa has entered the Age of Hope. When we leave this House today, after we have debated this Bill, every South African, young and old, should be able to say he or she has this hope and that a better life is evident to all of us.

I thank you. [Applause.]]

Mr M V NGEMA: Nadeco welcomes the introduction of this Bill as an important measure to close the gaps between our wishes and the reality, which exists in most of our communities regarding perceptions of the aged.

The core of the post-1994 approach is that government should play a leading role in enabling older persons to remain an integral and valued part of their communities, which should accept their responsibility for the wellbeing of their elders.

The Bill retains the age differential between men and women. While the age difference corresponds with the provisions concerning eligibility for social assistance in terms of the Social Assistance Act, there could be a constitutional challenge to the differentiation in this Bill, as it does not relate to social assistance but rather to the access to services. It could be argued that, especially in the light of manner in which the preamble locates the provisions of the Bill of Rights, it is unconstitutional to discriminate against men on the basis of their age.

Our prayer is that advancements in research and development will soon enable us to deal effectively with HIV and Aids and its impact on our society. Failure in this direction will render this piece of legislation an ornament devoid of any application, as there would be no older persons to protect.

Nadeco would wish for this legislation no longer to be applicable only because our future older persons need no more protection from the state resulting from their self-sufficiency.

I thank you.

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson and hon members, older persons are some of the most vulnerable in society when it comes to abuse, ill treatment and deprivation. The Bill seeks to address all that and ensure that they also retain their dignity and are not seen to be living at the mercy of some who have turned themselves into demigods. How often have we learned of grannies being robbed of their pension money and, in some cases, assaulted by their grandchildren, children or even other next of kin? There are of course situations in which they are kicked out of their homes, as the hon Direko said earlier on.

In keeping with the policy of my party, the UCDP, the Bill seeks to shift institutional care to community-based care. In all our years as a party and in a government, we have maintained that …

… ngwana wa mosetsana o tsholla seruwa sa ga mmagwe … […a girl child always takes care of her mother …]

… emphasising that old people should be cared for and maintained within their homes and familiar surroundings. After all, culturally, the extended family comes into the picture under such circumstances.

We also welcome the guiding principles for provision of services. It has to be recognized that older people have a right to make a social, cultural, economic and even political contribution, and as such, they should participate in decision-making processes at all levels.

No one has a right to say to older people they should cease to practice their political activities and rights. It is for this reason that, in the recent local government elections, there was a 90-year-old candidate.

We are humbled by the ignorance that still prevails about HIV/Aids among our older persons. To mind comes the plight of traditional healer Mampatho Kumkani, the septuagenarian of East London who, out of love, washed the wounds of some girl with bare hands, unaware of her HIV status, and she in turn contracted the virus. It is in such circumstances that education and counselling on HIV and Aids should be made available to older persons. Thanks should be given that her community is supportive to her in her plight. We should fight with all our might to ensure that our older persons are cared for and thus hope to live longer as promised to us in the fourth commandment.

The UCDP supports the Bill. [Applause.]

Mrs D M GUMEDE: Hon Chairperson, hon President in absentia together with the Deputy President, and all hon Ministers present in this House today, hon members, comrades and friends, together with our fellow South Africans, I greet you all.

Chairperson, I am one of the luckiest people to be given an opportunity to speak about this piece of legislation, which represents me, because I am already a part of the older generation. My specific focus with regard to this Bill will be about the facilities we are accommodated in.

If I am old and I am not treated well where I am staying, it does not mean I just have to stay confined to that kind of life. The ANC-led government has tried very hard to introduce a Bill or a piece of legislation that is going to let us live in a better manner, as we grow older and older.

As I have already said … but before that point, let me just go to the next one. It is really embarrassing that people from other countries recognise the good points of the ANC-led government, as the hon Kofi Annan stated when he addressed us here. He proved to us that the South Africa is one of the best countries in the world.

But, most unfortunately, some people are not aware of that, but that is purposely. Any way, the masses of this country have once more, for the sixth time, proved that they have confidence in the ANC as a party and as a government.

Let me go back to where I was earlier. In this Bill, there is the word facility’’. This wordfacility’’ replaces the previous word used, which was ouetehuis’’. I used to wonder what it was, because I could not see anybody going to thatouetehuis’’. It is just that now I realise that that ouetehuis’’ was meant for some special older persons somewhere. Today I am speaking of something different, a transformedouetehuis’’ that is called a facility, which accommodates all older persons of all kinds and of all races around South Africa. Every older person is allowed to choose a facility of his or her choice, and this must be kept in the register of that particular older persons register.

These facilities are bound to being registered. I can’t just get up in the morning and say ``I have got a facility’’. I have got to follow all the necessary procedures that are required. I should follow each and every necessary procedure that is followed by other institutions of this country.

Thus, the facility must be registered. It must be user-friendly to each and every older South African - for example, the frail older person, the disabled older person or their next of kin. If I am admitted to a facility as I am, nevertheless, somewhere I have a daughter, or son or an in-law who is disabled.

So, if I am in that facility, she or he will want to visit me in that facility, but if the facility is not user-friendly towards them, that is not allowed. These facilities must all be well equipped with staff, and be fully and nicely furnished.

When we speak of the staff, we are referring to the staff that will be trained according to expected measures as pronounced in the Bill. This is not to say that I will run my facility in one way, and that the other one will lead in another way, and that another one will still lead it in whatever other way. It must all be done in the same manner as provided in the Bill. In other words, there must be uniformity in running those facilities.

The most important thing about the facilities - I am going to focus on the facilities - is that these facilities are bound to be running 24 hours a day. The Minister of Social Development, as the one who will be overseeing all the facilities together with all who are being delegated with him, might agree otherwise with somebody who might not be able to run the facility for 24 hours, but if it is not run for 24 hours, where will that older frail person be for the other 12 hours, if during the day he or she will be with me?

I think the Minister will have to dwell on it, and then clarify that each and everybody who runs a facility or who goes and takes his or her parent or older person to a certain facility is bound to comply with the rules and regulations of running a facility.

If one person is found not doing that - perhaps running a facility in his or her own way, if the facility is unregistered or if the facility is meant for certain people where, if an older person or frail person enters my facility, I look at who you are and where you come from, and I do not admit you even though I have a space for you, for certain reasons - that person is guilty of an offence. He is automatically going to be found guilty before going to the magistrate. You do not accommodate somebody because he or she is somebody. You accommodate him or her because he or she is an older person or a frail older person.

An HON MEMBER: What about the rule of law?

Mrs D M GUMEDE: They are bound, never mind the rule of law. [Interjections.] By the way, that remark reminded me of something. Let me once more make this institution aware that the ANC-led government understands that a clever broad-minded leader never stops planning, because even though he did well yesterday, he plans to do better tomorrow. [Time expired.]

Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, Ministers, our veterans in the gallery and in the House, I greet you. The MF applauds the introduction of the long- awaited Older Person’s Bill. The MF maintains an active role with the older persons in its constituencies. We realise the value of our older persons and the responsibility incumbent upon all to ensure the wellbeing and safety of these veterans.

The MF is especially pleased that the same realisation is made in this Bill. The provisions made in this Bill promise a better life for all veterans.

We, however, are concerned. In reality, sadly, older persons are victims of a series of type of abuse, which the MF is determined to stamp out. We feel that an actual monitoring body other than the professionals mentioned in the Bill needs be established to monitor, oversee and ensure the wellbeing of our older persons. Also the forms of abuse need to be further elaborated into a range of the forms of abuse that occur.

It is however promising that service delivery will be prioritised for our older persons, but we request a monitoring body, once again, to ensure such prioritisation is made.

We take this opportunity to request a far better pension for our older persons. The MF finds that R840 as a pension is far too low to meet the costs of living, especially if you take into consideration how pricey basic necessities are. Perhaps a nutrition programme needs to be considered for our older persons who do not have family or loved ones to subsidise their living.

The MF calls on the House and the public at large to realise the value of older persons, and to commit to contributing to their wellbeing. If we socialise this care and commitment to our older persons and our children, they shall carry this responsibility into their adulthood, when you are perhaps an older person. We are all protected by our Constitution, but our democracy depends on its practice by all. Remember, you are not old; you are gold. The MF supports The Older Person’s Bill. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mr S SIMMONS: Chair, hon Minister, hon members, by the age of 65 and 60 in the case of males and females respectively, most people have decided to retire from active participation in the formal sector where they have made their contribution to improving the country politically, economically and socially. The aged should then retire and enjoy their retirement.

The fact that it was found necessary to introduce a Bill of this nature, amongst other things, to deal effectively with the plight of older persons is a clear indication that the aged referred to are not enjoying their retirement. The plight of the aged is so serious that this Bill had to be submitted to Parliament to protect older persons, amongst others, against abuse, of which there many forms.

Although the department must be commended for the role played and initiative taken, the question that should be asked is: Why did it take so long for this Bill to be tabled? I am sure the measures prescribed in the said Bill will sufficiently address the problems experienced by the aged.

The United Party of SA supports the Bill. I thank you.

Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, honouring and obeying our parents - our elders - is one of the first commandments that come with a promise. This commandment says that if you obey and honour your mother and your father, you are guaranteed to live a long life. So, hon Minister, I think you are biblically correct by introducing the Older Persons Bill, and I wish to commend you and your department for doing this.

The greatness of a country is judged by how they treat their most vulnerable members: the very young and those who are very old. The care and protection of the older person should become a priority, especially those who are poor and those who live in rural areas where they are marginalised and most vulnerable. Often the elderly are perceived as dispensable to modern society, and therefore they are vulnerable to social, psychological and physical abuse.

The older person should be respected for his or her wealth of wisdom, experience and resourcefulness. Many older persons are central to caring for families and communities, frequently volunteering their service to care for children, often their own grandchildren.

The Bill indicates the commitment by government to redressing the inequities of the past and to upholding the constitutional values of respect, dignity and the wellbeing of all, especially of the vulnerable, marginalised and older persons. According to the 2001 census, the total older person population was 3,2 million, representing a growth rate of 16,1% compared to the 1996 figures. The Department of Social Development estimates that by 2009 the figure will have risen to 4,2 million. While this figure represents 7,3% of the total population, indications are that older persons play a proportionately greater role in family and community, and in the social and economic development of 19,3 million children.

The Federation of Democrats supports this Bill, and we believe that history will judge us harshly if we neglect to care for the frail and the elderly. I thank you.

Nkul T M MASUTHA: Mutshami wa xitulu, swirho swa nhlengeletano wa tiko wo vumba milawu, holobye wa Nhluvukiso wa Rixaka, Tatana Zola Skweyiya na hinkwenu etikweni ndza ni xeweta. Ndzi ri xewani. Ndzi twa van’wana va nga hlamuli. Ndzi ri xewani.

Namuntlha mhaka leyi nga emahlweni ka hina yi hi mayelana na swikongomelo na timfanelo ta vakulukumba va hina, ndzi vula vakokwana, a madorobeni na le makaya. Hina Nawumbisi lowu wu nga emahlweni ka hina, lowu wu nga langutela ku susumetana na ku seketela swikongomelo leswi. Kambe, ndzi nga si ya emahlweni na mhaka leyi, a ndzi lava ku mi rhamba hinkwenu kuri hi tlhelela endzaku eka malembe ya 50 lawa ya nga hundza, hi tsundzuka vamanana lawa nga tiboha va lwela ku nchunxeka ka hina, loku hi tiphinaka hi kona namuntlha, lava va nga ya ePitori va macha, va nga twanani na timhaka ta mapasi na ku kandziyeriwa hi milawu ya apartheid hi minkarhi yaleyo.

Vamanana lava va ha hanyaka namutlha hi vona vakokwana va hina lava ndzi tshembaku kuri va tsakela ku vona ndzima leyi va nga yi tlanga na leswi hi nga swi fikelela, nhluvuko na nchunxeko lowu hi nga eka wona namuntlha. A hi va nkhenseni. [Swandla.]

Swotala swi vulavuriwile namunthla, mina ndzi vonile swi fanela kuri na vanhu va hina lava va nga yangiki eswikolweni, va nga tiviki xilungu lexi kumbe va nga xi twisiseki ngopfu-ngopfu vona vakokwana lava nawu wu nga kongomana na vona, hi hlamusela swilo leswi hi ndlela leyi va nga ta kota ku yi twisisa na vona, na milawu leyi hi karhi hi yi endlaka va ta kota ku yi tirhisa hi ku tiva kuri yi kona milawu leyi na kuri yiendleriwile kuri yi vapfuna hi ti ndlela tihi.

Nawumbisi lowu nga emahlweni ka hina, lowu se wu nga hundzusiwa eka Yindlu leyi n’wana- hi leswo eka NCOP, lowu se nga mahlweni ka hina hi ri Nhlengeletano ya Tiko yo Vumba nawu i nawu lowu tisaku swilo leswo hambana na swilo leswi nga eka nawu lowu nga kona sweswi. Xin’wana xa leswi nga hambana leswi nawu lowu wu swi tisaka loko hi wu fanisa na nawu lowu nga kona i ku nyiketa kumbe a ndzi xikulukumba i ku endla leswaku vakulukumba va nga ku loko se va kurile ku va leswaku va susiwa emindyangwini ya vona na le rixakeni va ya vekiwa le tlhelo le. Mfumo, hi nawu lowu wu lava ku ringeta ku kota ku seketela mindyangu, rixaka, swifundza na hinkwayo minhlengeletano leyi tirhelanaka na ku hlayisa vanhu lava vakulukumba. Wu va seketela hi tindlela to hambana ku katsa na ku va nyika timali leti nga ta va pfuna ku kota ku endla ntirho lowu. Xin’wana lexikulu lexi tisaka nawu lowu i mhaka ya ku vona tindlela to tala leti vakwana wa hina ngopfu-ngopfu va xisati va karhatekaka hi tona hi ndlela leyi va xanisiwaka hi yona. Mi ta ndzi khomela xichangana xi pfa xitsutsuma. Na ku tisa tindlela tintshwa leti va nga kotaka ku kuma ku seketeriwa kuri na vona va kota ku tiphina hi timfanelo leti un’wana na un’wana erixakeni a kotaka ku tikuma.

Xin’wana xa swilo leswi hi nga swi vona hi ri Palamende, leswi hi ringetaka ku swi lulamisa, hi leswo u kuma kuri vatirhela mfumo va tirha hi ndlela leyi yo ka yi nga nghenelani, un’wana na un’wana u tirha hi ndlela leyi a tirhisaka xi swona a nga ri na mhaka ya kuri lava n’wana vona va swi vonisa kuyini. Xin’wana xa swilo leswi hi ringetaka ku swi endla hi nawu lowu i ku ringeta ku endla kuri vatirhela-mfumo va tindzawulo hinkwato leti ti tirhelaka mfumo va tirhisana leswaku vakulukumba va kota ku kuma matirhelo hi ndlela yo hetiseka leyi faneleke.

Ndzi lava ku kombisa swinene leswaku ku fikela sweswi, hi vile na tindlela to hambana tanihi mfumo lowuntshwa wa ANC hi nga ringeta ku seketela timfanelo ta rixaka hi ku angarhela. Swin’wana swa swilo leswi hi nga swi endla ku fikela namuthla, loko hi langutisa endzhaku emalembeni ya khume ya 12 lawa ya hundza i ku ringeta ku nyika vanhu lava nga swisiwana kuri va ta kota ku kuma mati, gezi leswi nga hakeriwiki. Va kuma tiyindlu lomu va nga tshama va hlayisekile kona. A ka leswi hinkwaswo hi ringetile ku endla kuri vakulukumba va hina va nga siyiwi endzaku na vona va angarhetiwa eka matirhela lawa ndzi nga wa hlaya.

Kambe, xin’wana xikulukumba lexi ndzi lavaka ku bula hi xona hi leswo votala va hina, a hi kurisiwanga hi vatswari va hina. Hi kurisiwile hi vakokwana. Nkarhi lowu a va fanele va tshama ehansi va wisa va ku mbaa! I nkarhi lowu va nga tikuma va karhi va langutisanile na ntirho wo kurisa na ku ondla vatukulu. Leswi swi endlile leswaku vakokwana votala ngopfu ngopfu hi mhaka ya ku lova ka vatswari hikokwalaho ka HIV/ Aids na switsongwa- tsongwani swin’wana na tindlela tin’wana leti endlaka vakokwani va sala va ondla vatukulu hi mhaka ya leswi vatswari va nga lova vana va ha ri vantsongo, va va siyile ndzhaku na vakokwana va vona.

Nawu lowu xo sungula wu langutana na ndzima leyi vakokwana va nga yi tlanga, vakulukumba va hina va nga yi tlanga erixakeni ku hluvukisa rixaka, matirhelo yo hambana lawa va nga pfuneta eka wona na swin’wana na swin’wana leswi va swi endlela rixaka kuri ri ya emahlweni.

Xavumbirhi, nawu lowu langutisa ndlela leyi vakulukumba va nga va pfunetaka ku yisa rixaka emahlweni na kuri ku nga vi na xihlawuhlawu na vona va kuma nkarhi wa kuri va kota ku tlanga ndzima yo karhi ekuyiseni emahlweni ka rixaka. Ndzi lava ngopfu-ngopfu ku vula leswaku hambileswi nawu lowu nga ta va wu nghenisiwa eswifundzeninkulu- eka tiprovhinsi, swa fanela kuri hina eka National level hi hluvukisa mintolovelo na maendlele lawa ya nga ta fambisa swifundzankulu leswaku eka matirhelo lawa a nga ta yisiwa emahlweni ehansi ka nawu lowu ku va na ku tirha hi tindlela to fana, leswaku hambi kuri ematiko xikaya kumbe emadorobeni hi kota ku fikelela matirhelo lawa ya fanaka. U ta kota ku fikelela leswi van’wana va swi fikeleka na wena. Swa fanela kuri vanhu hinkwavo ku nga ri na mhaka kuri va le kwihi. Swintsongo leswi nga kona na vona va phameriwa leswaku hinkerhu hi ta kota ku swi fikelela.

Ndzi lava ku nkhensa ngopfu mintlawa yo hambana na tinhlangano to hambana leti nga tlanga ndzima eka ku aka ka Nawumbisi lowu. Ndzi lava ku nkhensa holobye ku tisa nawu na ku susumeta kuri nawu lowu wu hundzisiwa hi ku hatlisa. Hikuva i khale hi wu rindzerile, i khale vanhu va hina na rindzerile va la va kuri na vona nchunxeko lowu hi nga ka wona wu va na nchumu wo karhi lowu va wu komaka eka wona. Ikomu. [Swandla.] (Translation of Xitsonga speech follows.)

[Mr T M MASUTHA: Chairperson, members of the National Assembly, the Minister of Social Development, Mr Zola Skweyiya, and everyone in the country, I greet you. I say hello. It seems as if there are some people who are not responding to my greetings. I greet you.

The issue at hand today is in relation to the aims and the rights of our elderly people, our grandparents who live in the urban and rural areas. The Bill we have today is designed to urge and support these aims. Before I proceed with this issue, let us look at what happened some 50 years ago in remembrance of the women who pledged to fight for our freedom - the freedom we have today - and who marched to Pretoria in protest of the dompasses and apartheid laws of that time.

These are the women whom I called our grandmothers, who I believe want to witness the role they have played, the achievements they have made, and the development and the freedom that we have today. Let’s commend them. [Applause.]

A lot has been said today, but I saw it fit to give clear details of this Bill, so that it would be easy for our people who did not get a chance to attend school – those who do not understand English, especially our grandparents for whom the legislation is made - to understand the legislation we make. They will be able to apply them, knowing that the legislation is there to assist them in whatever way.

The Bill which is before us as members of the National Assembly is from the NCOP. This Bill is different from the legislation that is in place now. Some of the things that this Bill ensures is that older persons are not removed from their families or from their communities and placed in secluded areas.

Through this legislation, the government is trying to support families, the nation, the provinces and all the organisations that assist in caring for the elderly. The government supports these structures in different forms, including funding them in order to render a better service.

Another thing that prompted the drafting of this legislation is the way in which some of us are oppressed, especially women. You will pardon me; I sometimes lose my Shangaan vocabulary. The legislation also brings new ways that can be used in seeking support so that they can also enjoy the rights that everyone does.

Another thing that we found as Parliament, that we are trying to correct, is that public servants do not work together. Everyone works the way they deem fit and they do not care about other workers’ views. Some of the things that we are trying to do through this legislation is to make sure that public servants from all government departments work together so that the older persons can get better service.

I want to state clearly that up to now, as the new government led by ANC, we used many different ways to support human rights in general. Some of the things we have done during the past 10 – 12 years have been to provide free water and electricity to the poor. They have houses where they are safely staying. While doing all of this, we tried to make sure that our elderly people are not left behind, by making it a point that they are covered in all the processes that I mentioned.

One major thing that I want to talk about is that our parents did not raise most of us here; instead we were raised by our grandparents during the time they were supposed to have been resting. This is the time they were faced with the task of caring for and raising their grandchildren. This has been so because of the death caused by the scourge of HIV/Aids and other related diseases, including other factors that left the grandparents with no choice but to take care of their grandchildren.

For a start, this legislation concerns the part played by our grandparents, the elderly, in developing the nation, the different systems they used and anything they did for the nation.

Secondly, this legislation looks at the way in which our elderly can help in developing the nation and making sure that people are not discriminated against and also giving them an opportunity to play a role in developing the nation.

I want to emphasise that although we know that this legislation will be taken to the provinces, it is necessary that we at national level develop ways and systems that will govern the provinces. Actually, the ways and systems that govern this legislation should be carried out in the same way whether in rural or urban areas. You’ll be able to achieve what others have achieved. The little that we have must be distributed to everyone wherever they are.

I would like to express my sincere appreciation to the different structures and organisations that played a role in the making of this Bill. I want to thank the Minister for bringing this legislation and for urging that it be passed immediately. We have been waiting for it for a long time. Our people have been waiting for a long time for the freedom that we are enjoying, in the hope that there will be something that they are going to gain from. I thank you. [Applause.]]

The MINISTER OF SOCIAL DEVELOPMENT: Mr Chairman, may I first of all thank this House for the assistance, help and advice it has given the department, as well as for its experience and expertise, generally, in compiling and ensuring that this Bill got to this stage. I can say clearly that there is no other issue that all parties in this House agree more on than this issue of the elderly and the issue of children.

I have always received a lot of support from different parties with different ideological positions in order to ensure that the issue I am raising here necessarily gets through. Despite that, I think I would like to raise my voice in gratitude, basically with regard to the members that have remained very closely connected with this Bill, especially from the elderly in this House who have guided us and who have given us advice – from all parties - on how to treat this issue, from the old apartheid law to what it is today.

I think it has been more than four or five years that we have been dealing with this issue. Among those members, may I just mention a few: the hon Direko, the hon Tshivhase, the hon Mrs Mars, the hon Masutha and many others; they come from all parties, and include the hon Weber and the hon Dudley, for what they have been able to give … [Inaudible.] [Interjections.] [Laughter.] I talked about giving assistance, not age. The first few were a little bit … [Interjections.]

They have all assisted us, from different angles, and we would like to say thank you. I hope they will continue to ensure that the Bill is implemented in the manner and the way in which they had thought of it, so that it should increase the availability of resources for the elderly and for children in a future South Africa, and currently.

More importantly, I would like to offer my gratitude and assistance to civil society for the manner in which they guided, assisted and advised in terms of how this Bill should be set out in order for it to be what it is and according to the resources that we have today. I really express my gratitude to all of them. [Applause.]

More importantly, may I single out Mrs Mary Turok and Mr Tom Manthata … [Applause.] … for their assistance, their letters, their advice, their notes and formulations that they have, over the past five years, brought to the department’s attention and for assisting the department to ensure that those issues were reflected in this Bill. I thank you from the bottom of my heart, and I thank you generally in the name of thousands of elderly people who want better service from government, who want better service from society and from their community.

Once again, I think with all parties and civil society working together, we have been able to achieve what we want to achieve as South Africans - working for the same cause despite the fact that we come from different parties and have different outlooks. Thank you once again. Thank you, Mrs Mars, for everything. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Bill read a second time.

   HUMAN RIGHTS ARE PEOPLE’S RIGHTS: DEVELOPMENTS IN SOUTH AFRICA

             (Debate in Recognition of Human Rights Day)

Mr I D MOGASE: Chairperson, hon members, friends and all those who have come to this Parliament to learn about what is happening here, we meet today to commemorate Human Rights Day. As we remember and honour the revolutionary sacrifices of men and women who stood firm against the pass laws, we celebrate the life of those who were massacred in Sharpeville on 21 March 1960 and all those who lost their lives elsewhere in the struggle for liberation.

The recognition of 21 March as Human Rights Day is, on its own, a landmark victory that communicates to us a message to stand up and claim our rightful place in our country. It further represents a revolutionary spirit to reject apartheid in all its forms and to reassert our humanity in all its diversity.

Forty-six years ago black people decided to stand up against the hated document called the dompass.

Mme, botsotsi ba ne ba e bitsa a stinka. [And criminals referred to it as ‘stinker’.]

This hated document was designed to restrict our movement and freedom. This document denied the overwhelming majority of our people who are black the right to vote. This hated document prescribed to all blacks where to work and where not to work; it prescribed to us where to stay and where not to stay; and it further prescribed to us where and whom to marry sometimes. It also prescribed to us …

E ne e boetse e re behela meedi ya hore ha o eya lenyalong kapa Khombakhombeng, o tlamehile ho tshwara pasa. [It further prescribed that we should carry passes whenever we went to social gatherings or weddings.]

Whilst we all know that there were many other confrontations over the pass laws in other parts of the country, the Sharpeville massacre stood out as the most brutal act of terror against a defenceless and unarmed people, killing 69 of them. In fact, after these killings one Minister, Blaar Coetzee, remarked in Parliament here many years ago that “only” 69 Bantus were killed – “why do you worry about it?”

As a country we have taken giant strides in addressing the past wrongs and in doing away with white racism and discrimination, and I must thank the ANC for leading the way from such a brutal state in the past. Most importantly, we have taken practical steps to empower our people by adopting the Bill of Rights as the cornerstone of our Constitution, and we have embraced the principle of coexistence between blacks and whites and the vision of a shared common destiny.

Today, with the legal framework made possible by the ANC-led government, our constitutional order respects and protects everyone. Today everyone can exercise his or her right to vote in his or her own land. Today the elderly are enjoying the fruits of sacrifice we made during the struggle. Today the government has a strong social security net for the needy and the elderly and to protect the weak and the vulnerable.

Thanks to the revolutionary sacrifices of those patriots that lost their lives in Sharpeville and elsewhere in the struggle for liberation, we can claim today that ours was a revolution for a better humanity, and a revolution for the advancement and emancipation of the child, the youth and the elderly.

Today we must pride ourselves, and indeed this House and all those who were in the struggle, on having moved our country to a better place. We say: “Halala, halala the Freedom Charter, halala.” [Applause.]

Ms M SMUTS: Chair, I’m sure the hon Mogase will agree that the constitutional and legal framework was made possible not only by the ANC, but by all of us representing our countrymen and countrywomen and who negotiated the transition. [Interjections.] I think it would be most unfortunate to imply anything else. So that human rights are people’s rights – that is our subject – should go without saying. Fundamental human rights are, by definition, indivisible. They are for all people, or they don’t exist as fundamental, inalienable rights at all.

There cannot be one category of humans who have more rights than another category. The state may not grant rights and privileges to any one group on any one basis – sex or race for example - whilst withholding those rights and privileges from others. That is the old system on which we all turned our backs when we made the new South Africa. The state may never unfairly discriminate between categories of people in the new South Africa. That is why the right to equality is the cornerstone of the rights-based democracy, which we became after 1994.

Now, however, as we look back 10 years after the adoption of the final Constitution in 1996 and our subjects ask us to look at developments, we do have to ask ourselves whether human rights in South Africa are in practice – all of the people’s rights indivisibly.

I would like to quote here our hon Deputy President. She struck a fresh note soon after her appointment when she told Brendan Boyle of the Sunday Times that government had “messed up” the communication of affirmative action. Those were her words. She insisted, and I quote further, that “South Africans, including whites who had taken retrenchment packages to make way for transformation, would be the first recruits in an organised search for talent to drive the country’s infrastructure programme,” the roll-out of which she is the chief sponsor.

She also castigated civil servants and local government councillors, saying that she was tired of hearing excuses rather than plans. In this respect, also, she confirmed what the hon the President first promised the DA’s Willem Doman here in Parliament: it was to Willem Doman that the President said that existing skills would be consciously recruited.

Our Deputy President is disarmingly frank. That’s why I like her so much. But, equally frankly so, it is not the communication of affirmative action that has been messed up; it is affirmative action itself. It has gone wrong and we, all of us here together, have to put it right. The fact is that the government’s transformation policies are not really rooted in equality. Not really. I would like to argue that they actually conflict with the constitutional vision.

In our Constitution, corrective action is built into the concept of equality, which includes laws and measures designed to protect or advance persons or categories disadvantaged by unfair discrimination.

Corrective action is not a qualification of equality here, rather – and I would like to use the words of the Deputy Chief Justice Dikgang Moseneke – “the achievement of equality is a process”. But those measures and laws, which are described in section 9 of our Bill of Rights, must promote the ultimate goal of equality. The Constitutional Court has so ruled more than once. There must be – and these are the legal tests – a rational relationship between means and ends, as well as proportionality. Such measures cannot impact disproportionately on those who lose out. Affirmation action cannot constitute the arbitrary advancement of a set of interests. The goal cannot be control, and it most certainly cannot be control through racial rigging. The Constitution does not anticipate race as the overriding determinant of advancement. It nowhere envisions the numbers-based - the quantitative approach - which the ruling party has taken with its demographic determinism, with its employment laws, with the equity percentages built into black economic empowerment.

Go and look at your Constitution. In every single instance where it deals with representivity, it asks no more than that the relevant appointing body, whether that is the Judicial Service Commission or the committees choosing the chapter 9 bodies, consider the broad reflection of the race and gender composition of our country. They must consider it. But here is what they must do. The mandatory injunction is that the appointees be fit and proper for the job and comply with legislated requirements. That is what the Constitution says.

There is only one instance in which the broad representivity is itself mandatory, and that is the public administration, but here too the representivity remains broad. You do not do bean counting. And the constitutional injunction still is that employment and personnel practices in the public administration must be based, and I quote, “on ability, objectivity and fairness”. Now here is what our Deputy President said on this subject: “It was never the intention that jobs should be given to people who are not qualified. That is indefensible.” Hear, hear, is all one say, because it does not favour a person so appointed any more than it favours the institution to which that person is appointed. It’s a recipe for failure. Yet, that is exactly what has happened and that is not equality.

I refer now particularly to the third sphere of government which, I think for all of us, still occupies our minds. It is therein particularly that transformation has turned into a travesty of true affirmation action. It’s not in dispute that the dysfunctionality of 136 out of our 284 municipalities is due to a skills crisis, driven by employment equity. That is the government’s own diagnosis. It is not in dispute that lack of skill is the cause for the phenomenal debt run up by the 23 largest municipalities. The adjective is from the Auditor-General who also made this finding.

But why has this happened? Quite simply, because Ministers like the hon Minister for Provincial and Local Government think, and now I’m quoting his reply to one of our questions, that: “There needs to be a justifiable balance between skills and expertise on the one hand, and affirmative action on the other, when appointing municipal managers.” Do you see where this goes wrong?

In his mind - or he pretends to believe - ability and affirmative action are mutually exclusive. I personally find that rather insulting to black South Africans, but the point I’m making here is that that is not what the Constitution says. The Constitution asks for both - ability and affirmative action - and it does not allow the state to exclude South Africans of any given colour: brown, white, Indian brown. It does not exclude any of us from eligibility for appointment before the process of the consideration of the quality of the candidates and the broad representivity has even started. If a person is not considered eligible to serve their country, then you do not have equality.

It’s time that we got to work and sorted out affirmative action. Let’s make it work in the proper way, so that it benefits all of our institutions and the individuals whom we are determined should be fast-tracked so that we can all benefit from the quite glorious diversity of our country’s citizens. Thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chair, during her intervention the hon Smuts referred to people as brown, as Indian brown? Could she just clarify what exactly she was talking about?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Hon members, we need to be careful with racial terminologies. [Interjections.] I say we need to be careful, so that we here building, as the Constitution dictates to us, a nonracial society. However, descriptions … [Interjections.] Let me finish. However, descriptions in terms of a particular grouping will always be there within a particular context, not in a derogatory manner.

Unfortunately, I was not here at the time that was mentioned. Therefore I’ll just say: Let’s be careful that we are not derogatory, but, at the same time, description will always be allowed, because we may be speaking of a particular grouping and we may want to refer to it specifically in our debate. But let’s then do it in such a way that we promote this constitutional provision of building a nonracial society and one South Africa. Thank you.

Mme M S MAINE: Modulasetulo, maloko a Palamente a a tlotlegang, ditshwanelo tsa botho jaaka ditshwanelo tsa bomme gore di diragale, go tlhokega leano la go rotloetsa le go sireletsa ditshwanelo tsa bomme. Re tshwanetse go mametlelela ditshwanelo tsotlhe tsa botho segolobogolo, se se tswileng mo … (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Ms M S MAINE: Chairperson, hon members, human rights like women’s rights need to be upheld and a programme is needed to ensure that the protection of these rights is realised. We need to include all issues pertaining to human rights, especially those that were raised during the…]

… Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, Cedaw …

… ditshwanelo tsa botho mmogo le ditshwanelo tsa bomme di tshotse maemo a ntlha ka fa tlase ga puso ya ANC. Mo Aforika Borwa, puso ya ANC e tlhokometse gore e nna karolo ya Molaotheo wa naga. Ditshwanelo tsa botho di tsaya boinelo gotswa kwa dinageng tsotlhe go tsenyeletsa le dimametlelelo tsa Cedaw. Aforika Borwa ga ya bolo go itsalanya le ditshwanelo tseo ka e le moono wa ANC. Se, se tsenyeletsa Cedaw le Beijing Platform of Action. Ke ka moo Aforika Borwa e sa keng ya okaoka go ntšhafatsa Cedaw ka 1996, ya ba ya tswelela go tsenyeletsa ditshitshinyo tsa teng mo molaong, maanong le mo mananeong a naga.

E rile ka 1998, ra neelana ka repoto ya bobedi kwa Cedaw. Puso ya rona e tshwaragane le Human Rights Commission, the Commission for Gender Equality le NGOs, ba ne ba tsaa maikaelelo a go bopa lenaneo la … (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[Human rights and women’s rights are a priority for the ANC-led government. In South Africa, the ANC-led government should ensure that they become part of the country’s Constitution. Human rights occupy the centre stage in all countries around the world including Cedaw‘s amendments. South Africa has long aligned itself with Cedaw‘s amendments as this has been an ANC ideology which includes Cedaw and the Beijing Platform of Action. This is the reason South Africa did not hesitate to amend Cedaw in 1996, and continued to include proposals for inclusion in the Constitution, its manifesto and national programmes.

In 1998, we presented Cedaw’s second report. Our government is busy with the Human Rights Commission, the Commission for Gender Equality and NGOs. They undertook to build a …]

… national action plan on protection and promotion of human rights …

… jaaka go ne go tshitshintswe ke World Conference on Human Rights.

Ditshwanelo tsa botho di kaya gore jaaka e le ditshwanelo tsa bomme, re na le tshwanelo ya go itlhophela. Fa mme a iphitlhela a le moimana mme a sa rulaganya e bile go na le mathata a a ka kgoreletsang go nna le ngwana ka nako eo, o na le tetla ya gore morago ga go lebelela mabaka otlhe, a tseye tshwetso ya go emisa boimana boo; ka bo tlaa tsenya isagwe le kgolo ya ngwana mo mathateng. Ka jalo, batho ba emise go tla fa ba bua gore seo ke polao.

ANC e tlotla le go diragatsa ditshwanelo tsa botho jaaka tsa bomme. Fa o lebelela ka fa go tlhophilweng bomme mo ditlhophong tsa pusoselegae tse di sa tswang go feta, o itemogela gore ANC ga e bue ka dipounama fela mme e diragatsa se e se buang. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[… just as was suggested at the World Conference on Human Rights.

Human rights embrace women’s rights, which give women a right to choose. If a woman discovers that she has an unplanned pregnancy, which may create problems during birth, she has the right to terminate the pregnancy after thorough consideration, as this could endanger her life and that of the baby. Therefore, I would like to encourage people to stop equating this practice with murder.

The ANC respects women’s rights as it does human rights. The election of women candidates in the latest local election bears testimony to the fact that the ANC practices what it preaches.]

A national consultative forum on human rights was established after the launching of the national action programme to co-ordinate its implementation. The national consultative forum on human rights has since been working on a comprehensive human rights education programme. In the interim, national departments have their own education programmes on rights, including women’s human rights. The national consultative forum also receives regular reports on progress achieved with regard to the protection and promotion of human rights. National institutions, government departments and various and civil society structures also have elaborate ongoing human rights education programmes, with the SAHRC taking the lead. The key programmes and projects on the advancement of human rights of women in this regard have included antivirginity testing advocacy by the Commission for Gender Equality, CGE; antiwitchhunting; radio programmes and workshops on customary marriage law by the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development; programmes seeking to popularise Cedaw and related human rights instruments; national human rights awards by the SAHRC, CGE and the Independent Electoral Commission; ongoing human rights and legal literacy education that involves pamphlets, posters, radio, television and newspapers.

Measures are implemented on an ongoing basis to strengthen the independent state-funded constitutions of statutory bodies and the administrative mechanisms that have been created since the onset of democracy to support democracy. These institutions monitor the protection and promotion of human rights including the human rights of women, in compliance with the Constitution and South Africa’s international human rights obligations. The institutions work together to monitor and promote various aspects of human rights.

International human rights norms, including the provision for Cedaw, have been integrated into the South African constitutional, legal and policy framework. As reported previously, the Constitution has a justiciable Bill of Rights, which includes an equality clause. The equality clause prohibits direct and indirect discrimination on the grounds of sex, gender, pregnancy, material status, race and various other grounds or combination of grounds.

In line with Cedaw, the notion of equality that underpins the Constitution is that of substantive equality. Gender aspects are systematically included in South African country reports on all human rights instruments that are binding on South Africa. Examples in this regard include country reports on the Convention on the Rights of the Child; International Convention on the Elimination of Forms of Racial Discrimination; International Convention on Civil and Political Rights; Convention Against Torture and other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment; International Conference on Population Development; Copenhagen Declaration on Social Integration and the African Charter on Human and Peoples’ Rights.

Go totobetse e bile ga go belaetse gore ANC ke moeteledipele fa go buiwa ka ditshwanelo tsa botho. Bomme ba Aforika Borwa ba motlotlo ka wena ANC, ka o ba buseditse serodumo le seriti go nna baagi ba boammaruri. Ke a leboga. [Legofi.] (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[It has been confirmed that there is no doubt that the ANC is a leader when it comes to human rights. South African women are proud of the ANC for having restored their pride and dignity as real citizens. Thank you. [Applause.]] Mr M B SKOSANA: Chairperson, Human Rights Day, Heroes Day or Sharpeville Day, any way one wishes to define it, raises the perspective of human tragedy precipitated by the state of a fallen man, as the philosopher St Thomas Aquinas would have concluded. It set for me as an individual a rendezvous with the meaning of rights and freedoms.

Forty-six years after the massacre at Sharpeville, the conundrum for me still persists, for one - and the greatest reason - it is because at the age of 13 years, motivated more by adventure than politics, I found myself taking part in the protest at Sharpeville police station. I will always recollect that day differently from those who only had oral accounts and those who only read of the killings.

Twelve years after the political emancipation of black South Africa, many are still struggling with the experiential meaning, the scope and the depth of the rights and freedoms of black South Africa. Sheikh Anta Diop argued throughout the 1970s and 1980s that complete political sovereignty in the post-colonial African state could not be recovered outside the historical, cultural, linguistic, psychic and the economic emancipation of black Africa, that is the development of the whole man.

However, in the post-apartheid South Africa the misfortune of social and psychological development of black South Africa finds his nemesis in the words of the then Minister of Native Affairs, Dr Hendrik Verwoerd, to Parliament in 1953 when he said, and I quote:

When I have control of the native education, I will reform it so that natives will be taught from childhood to realise that equality with the Europeans is not for them. People who believe in equality are not desirable teachers for natives.

The evidence of this is the current resilient nightmare to our exclusive political freedom. As Paulo Freire and others would have said, the oppressor continues to live in the mind of the oppressed. I think we should check that with ourselves at some point.

The political leaders of a people and progenies who have been subjected to the most reprehensible violation of human rights for more than three centuries are required by the command of history and the divine dream of the afflicted poor to work selflessly to introduce radical transformation of the educational system at all levels to complement a radical reconstruction of the economy.

Since the Universal Declaration of Rights in 1948 classified the rights as civil and political, social and cultural, they have become indivisible. The failure of a state to translate these or the Bill of Rights into meaningful human rights is to court social disorder, polarisation and a civil strife, I believe, of unimaginable proportions. Thank you, Mr Chair.

Mr L W GREYLING: Hon Chair, the topic of human rights has proven to be a popular issue of debate. However, the commemoration of human rights in South Africa for this year is even more special than past commemorations. It coincides with the tenth anniversary of our democratic Constitution, which serves as the pillar of all rights in our country.

The ID would like to congratulate all South Africans on their receptiveness to the upholding of human rights, especially given our tragic history of apartheid. However, our newspapers are still flooded with report, about human rights atrocities such as rape, murder, discrimination based on race and sexual orientation, and others.

Our children and youth are growing up in an environment where such acts have become the norm, leading to a subconscious disrespect of our Constitution. The solution is simple: We as members of the legislative powerhouse in this country must educate those who we represent about human rights. We must educate our children and youth about what they are entitled to as a means to ensure the sustainability of the respect for human rights in this country. The logic is straightforward: There is no point in commemorating human rights each year when daily injustices threaten the sustainability thereof. The ID’s position is as follows: The sustainability of true human rights practices are in the hands of all public officials involved in government. If we don’t come up with more strict … [Time expired.]

Rev K R J MESHOE: Chairperson, while the ACDP acknowledges the fact that progress has been made to promote and develop a culture of human rights in the country, we nevertheless argue that much still needs to be done to protect the rights of victims of crime, women and children.

The ACDP is saddened and deeply disturbed by the reported details in today’s Star newspaper of the vicious assault a four-year-old boy endured at the hands of his mother’s lesbian partner for refusing to call her Daddy’’. Why should an intelligent four-year-old boy lose his life for refusing to call a womanDaddy’’? Why should he sustain horrific injuries, including a fractured skull and brain damage as well as broken legs, collarbone, hands and pelvis, just for correctly refusing to call his mother’s lesbian partner Daddy’’? This four-year-old boy was correct in believing that aDaddy’’ can only be a man, and not a woman, and sadly, he died for his belief.

This Parliament must do more to protect children who are exposed to such sinful relationships to ensure that such a heinous crime is not repeated. The ACDP is equally shocked by the public humiliation, intimidation and abuse of a woman who chose to break her silence about an alleged rape. The rude and unacceptable behaviour of some of Jacob Zuma’s supporters outside the Johannesburg High Court must be condemned in the strongest possible terms. It was barbaric for some of JZ’s supporters to burn photos of Zuma’s accuser and to chant ``Burn the bitch’’ and other insulting slogans in front of the High Court and the police. Sadly, Mr Zuma did not call them to order.

The slogan ``Wa thint’ umfazi, wa thint’ umbokodo’’ has been seriously undermined by thousands of women who blindly support their political hero and viciously lambast another woman crying for justice.

These sad developments in our country will cause many rape victims to keep quiet about their trauma and ordeal for fear of further public humiliation and victimisation. The time has come for this Parliament to vigorously protect the rights of victims of crime, particularly those of rape victims.

Mr M J MALAHLELA: Chairperson, I was swayed to respond to some of the interesting aspects of South Africa today. If a South African takes to this podium and speaks about affirmative action as a way in which the ANC is heading society, that South African must also go back and understand why it is that, in South Africa, when you speak of affirmative action and you look to the Act that determines the question of employment equity, it talks about ``black’’ as a generic term, which includes blacks, Africans, so- called coloureds and Indians. [Interjections.]

The question that needs to be asked is: Why, in a society that is egalitarian, would there be a situation where an Act on this matter would be promulgated? It tells to you that there was a problem, a problem that needed to unravel the injustices that were perpetrated by the colonial masters. It is a colonial master who feels, unfortunately, now, as and when we, as the ANC tend to correct these aspects, that the ANC is racist.

Interestingly, this colonial master, whose economic relations have not been changed for the benefit of the poor, but are still to his benefit, stills feels that when the ANC changes this economic relation, the ANC is racist. This economic master has been and continues to be not impoverished. This colonial master who perpetuated apartheid and racism would not in anyway trumpet the fact that South Africa is changing, because at some stage, one of the writers in our revolution said: “It is a bit unpalatable to be overthrown.”

Unfortunately, or fortunately, in South Africa, the overthrowing of the colonial master was not through the barrel of a gun, but through an exercise of that which this Bill of Rights, of that which this human rights culture, speaks to today. If you go to the Labour Appeal Court, hon Smuts, and look at the court roll of how many people come to the Labour Appeal Court to specifically deal with matters that relate to affirmative action, you would not be coming here and making those insinuations, because this Bill of Rights, this human rights culture that we are celebrating also gave impetus to these people who go to the Labour Appeal Court and contest their rights within a court of law. You will only come here and talk about these things when there is no platform for any South African whatsoever to begin to challenge these things that it become an injustice.

Interestingly, people speak about the fact that, yes, in yesteryear those with political clout had isolated thundershowers, and yet, today is better than yesterday, and yesterday is surely better than the day before.

It is only those who understand and feel what it means to have been impoverished who would speak about these aspects. It is only those who understand what it means to have been economically subjugated who would speak about these aspects. It is only those who understand what it means to have been imprisoned and have a government that uses the judicial system to sentence them to death who would speak about celebrating a human rights culture. [Applause.]

A human rights culture cannot be celebrated in a vacuum, for history cannot only be that which we decide to think about. History cannot only be that which we decide to tell society about. If you speak about history, you must also go back and understand why, if today you are sitting in Sandton, and speaking about affirmative action for a person who comes from Alexandra, who still, up till now, feels that today is better than yesterday and has a reason to celebrate. This government has said that no longer should it be that employment should be for the chosen few, that which the colonial masters, who are making a lot of noise on my left, are trying to protect. [Applause.]

The most important aspect of a choice in South Africa still has to be understood, because amongst us as revolutionaries, there were those who were liberation theologians, who never, in any way, pretended that the storm was not coming and buried their heads in the sands. Those liberation theologians came out and said that South Africans have a right to choose. If South Africans of a particular sexual orientation feel that they have rights of whatsoever nature, which rights we are celebrating here today, which rights we are speaking to here today, which culture we are inculcating here today, those South Africans have a right to have their rights expressed.

If South Africans today feel that I cannot be attracted to hon Meshoe, they have a right to do so. [Laughter.] [Applause.] If hon members in Parliament feel that the only attraction that I have would be to Malahlela, let them exercise their right to attraction. [Laughter.] If as South Africans we want to be holier than God, who would not enter heaven as and when we die, because God said to us that He gave us ears, eyes and a head to transform reality, and as and when we transform reality, we are not transforming reality yearning for where we have never been. We are transforming reality, yearning for what we want us to be. For us to want to yearn to go where we have never been, by isolating and living that which we are dealing with here today, is absurd. That is not liberation theology, and hence, the activists of liberation theology are not on my left, many of them. [Applause.]

It is in this context, as I conclude, that all of the South Africans who have a right to say today that today is better than yesterday know what it means to have slept without food on their table. These South Africans cannot be hoodwinked in any way to want to believe that today there can be democrats aligned in opposition against democracy, when these democrats were never there when Solomon Mahlangu was hanged; when these democrats were never there to say to South Africa that whether we die or not, we will liberate this country. They were in the comfort of their houses, but they are making a lot of noise today. [Applause.]

Dr G G WOODS: Chairperson, issues of behavioural values are the cornerstone of Nadeco’s emerging identity; values that transverse the society, community, family and the individual. The central tenet of these aspirations is human rights, therefore South Africa’s fine Bill of Rights.

While our essential focus concerns the values upon which the Bill’s first- generation rights are based, we, like many of you, realise that these first- generation rights are often dependent on the realisation of the second- generation or socioeconomic rights; for example, when you have to think about the connection between crime and poverty.

In this regard, as Nadeco, while encouraged by the human rights consciousness with which the South African society is steadily imbued, we are aware that the deeper human rights culture we seek will ultimately depend on improved socioeconomic circumstances in our country.

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Chairperson and hon members, the question of human rights is as old as man. The rights of some people should not impose on those of others. We should be tolerant of one another. We in the UCDP believe that, to have harmony, we should love, respect, serve, consult and be tolerant of one another.

There is a long way to go before we can have a just society. More than a decade ago some organisations taught their followers that other people meant nothing. It is for that reason that up to this day there are those who distinguish people according to the colour of their skin.

It is unfortunate that human rights have in recent times caused hurt to some people. There are villages that live in peace but have been invaded by some people who occupy their land with impunity and go on to threaten them in their places of abode. It is unfortunate that people in rural areas such as Supingstad, Lekgophung and Masebudule that had public transparent in abundance 10 years ago have to be crammed into vans as their means of transport. It is unfortunate that the people at Ratlou, in Thaba-Nchu, who had government facilities at their doorstep 12 years ago, now have to travel 70 km to Bloemfontein to receive government services.

We, in the UCDP, will go down bewailing the violation of the right to life that is euphemistically called termination of pregnancy. We maintain that, much as some rights are protected, that right concerning the lives of those young people is violated.

We must, of course, hail the new legislation that has been brought to bear, such as the promotion of equality and prevention of unfair discrimination of 2000. However, we have to admit that inculcating a culture of human rights is a process that has to be allowed to take its course and not be hurried to take place overnight. Thank you.

Ms K R MAGAU: Chairperson and hon members, on 26 June 1955 the people of South Africa gathered in Kliptown at what was called the people’s congress and developed a document called the Freedom Charter, which later became a blueprint for a democratic South Africa.

The tenth clause of the Freedom Charter, which says: “There shall be peace and friendship,” links us as a country to the region that is the SADC, to the continent and the world. What this clause demands us to do is to ensure that South Africa shall be a fully independent state, which respects the rights and sovereignty of all nations.

We shall strive to maintain world peace and settlement of all international disputes by negotiation, not war. Peace and friendship among people shall be secured by upholding equal rights and opportunities. The right of all people of Africa to independence and self-government shall be the basis for close co-operation.

In the next few minutes, I would like us to assess the extent to which human rights, as peoples’ rights, in the region – that is in the SADC, in the continent – that is Africa, and in the world have been entrenched in the context of clause 10 of the Freedom Charter; and assess challenges met along the way, if any.

The vision of our country’s foreign policy is that of an African continent that is prosperous, peaceful, democratic, nonracial, nonsexist and united; and which contributes to a world that is just and equitable. In this age of hope, we are committed to promoting South Africa’s national interests and values, the African Renaissance and the creation of a better world for all through this policy that is underpinned by the following principles: a commitment to human rights; and commitment to promotion of democracy, justice and international law. We are also committed to international peace and internationally agreed upon mechanisms for resolution of conflict.

Regarding the commitment to the promotion of democracy within the region, both the SADC executive and SADC Parliamentary Forum have played a complementary and critical role in that all member countries hold regular elections, and fairly strive to adhere to SADC principles of observing and administering elections. It must also be mentioned though that a lot still needs to be done regionally in improving people-to-people relations and entrenching human rights.

Regarding the African Union and Pan-African Parliament, the Peace and Security Council of the African Union is doing well in promoting peace on the continent. The justice and human rights committee of the AU has been established to deal with human rights issues. We also have to take this opportunity to congratulate Judge Ngoepe on his appointment as a judge of the African tribunal court which in itself is a right step in the right direction in that it will enable Africans to have African solutions to African problems. Concerning international law, our first decade of democracy coincided with a decade in which the continent and the world have been in a radical change, that is in world politics; and which has also seen increased interdependency among states. This has also led to the overhauling of the continent’s multilateral systems, eg the transformation of the OAU into the African Union. South Africa is now a major player in the international arena, a role which means that South Africa has to adhere to, respect and advance human rights in all aspects.

As a country, we continue to be a major and influential player in the development of international human law. We are also one of the leading countries in the United Nations who continually evaluate the effectiveness of existing human rights treaties, and propose additional instruments in the process of setting norms and standards with a view to update and strengthen such treaties.

We also welcome the approval by the United Nations for the establishment of a new human rights council aiming at strengthening the world body’s machinery to promote and protect fundamental rights, and deal with major human rights offenders. We believe that this change will also advance the cause that we stand for. Regarding peace and conflict resolution, as a country, we played a crucial role in resolving conflicts in a number of countries on the continent such as Burundi – a process which was started through successful management of the implementation of the Arusha peace and reconciliation agreement. We also managed the facilitation of the Burundi peace process, and continued engaging Burundi and role-players to a point where a referendum and very successful elections were held on 4 July 2005. An observer mission from South Africa was constituted and it was composed of some members from this House.

Those who were there will remember the phrase that was articulated by children in Burundi. There is a phrase that says: “If you want to see the world, you must look at it through the eye of a child.” As children of Burundi met and saw South Africans, whether part of the South African troops or the mission, they always referred to a phrase, which means peace. They said: “Mahoro, South Africa, Mahoro!” I see the hon Mathebe has already left … the hon Direko will always remember that.

We are also involved with assisting the DRC’s post-conflict resolution, development and organisation of democratic general elections sometime this year. A defence co-operation agreement and a memorandum of understanding on practical assistance regarding the integration of armed forces were signed in June 2004.

The other country in which we are doing work to entrench peace and conflict resolution through negotiation, and not war, is Sudan. South Africa’s bilateral relations with Sudan are expanding rapidly, following President Thabo Mbeki’s official visit at the end of 2004 and the signing of the comprehensive peace agreement on January 2005.

The Department of Foreign Affairs, the Sudan People’s Liberation Movement, SPLM, and Unisa are involved in a capacity and institutional-building project for Sudan which was launched on 5 February 2005. The AU committee on post-conflict reconstruction also held a meeting that was chaired by South Africa here in Cape Town on 18 February 2005 to discuss areas of support from AU and member states.

A lot of patience is needed though in dealing with the conflict in Sudan in the sense that it is a conflict which is very complex in nature. The situation in Darfur appears to have taken a turn for the worse, with the Janjaweed militias having been joined by rebels from Chad. The AU Peace and Security Council has sent some peacekeeping forces to Darfur but it now sees the necessity for UN troops to be deployed in the region to augment the efforts of the African Union.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Hon member, your time has expired. Sorry about that.

Ms K R MAGAU: Thank you.

Mr R B BHOOLA: We as a nation have grown into a democracy and have achieved so much for our people. The national Constitution serves as the backbone of our democracy. Its values and principles are enshrined and upheld in ensuring that a true democracy depends on such values and principles being instilled and upheld in every facet of South African policy, legislation and society.

However, ensuring a true democracy depends on such values and principles being instilled and upheld by all South Africans. The Bill of Rights clearly upholds human rights and condemns any action in contravention of these rights. It is dependent and incumbent upon all South Africans to ensure that our rights are not compromised and that we celebrate the rights we have received from birth.

I take this opportunity to remember all those comrades who fought for what we have achieved today. Never again shall oppression be our people’s end, but forever shall it be a South Africa built on freedom, democracy, unity and courage, and not on the basis of one’s skin colour.

The MF pays its respects to all those victims of apartheid who sacrificed their lives in the battle for democracy. We salute you and celebrate democratic South Africa in honour of you. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms N M MDAKA: Chairperson, hon members, as we were celebrating our Human Rights Day last Tuesday, it became clear from different events held countrywide that, as a country and a people, we still have a long way to go in order to adapt to our ever-changing political, social and economic circumstances, and to commemorate the lives we lost in a fitting way, in order to enjoy this Freedom Day.

There have been significant advances in formal democratic terms. However, from a human rights perspective, much remains lacking, especially the respect for women’s and children’s rights. We still remain the country with the highest incidence of violence against women and children, a society whose morals are fast decaying.

We need to respond to this challenge by ensuring that moral regeneration is not just a case of one group imposing its views on another. It should become part of our daily lives to ensure that our women and children celebrate their hard-won rights like all other citizens of this country. I thank you

Mr S SIMMONS: Given the magnitude of the responsibility laid upon the SA Human Rights Commission, I am convinced that the commission can fully achieve its goal despite its admirable achievements to date. I say this because of the lack of public visibility and the general public’s limited acquaintance with the commission and its mandate.

We can only claim to have truly achieved a culture of human rights when the ordinary South African knows exactly how his rights are protected, and what he can do to remedy the situation when these rights are infringed. This is not the case at present, despite the SA Human Rights Commission’s admirable work to date.

I am therefore of the opinion that by also increasing the commission’s capacity, ordinary South Africans will become better informed about the role of SA Human Rights Commission and what the value of the commission is to each person.

We have to be mindful that great challenges lie ahead. I thank you.

Mr G B MAGWANISHE: Deputy Chairperson, hon members, fellow South Africans, today we talk about human rights as free people. Not so long ago, any reference to human rights or to the Freedom Charter was regarded as communist and therefore illegal. People have died and suffered just for saying: “I am a human being, and I want to be treated as such.”

This day demands of us to say thank you to the people of South Africa for the sacrifices they have made for us to be free. We need to say thank you to the mothers and fathers who up to now do not know where their children are, but even now will say South Africa belongs to all who live in it.

We need to say thank you to the workers, the rural poor, the youth, and the elderly, who defied rainy weather and long queues to vote for the continuation of a better life and democracy. We cannot have human rights unless there is democracy. I think we must say thank you to the organisation that has been able to unite our people to be their own liberators, the ANC. [Applause.]

Our people, led by the ANC, have always understood that there is something better than oppression and bondage, and that is a life of dignity guaranteed by the Bill of Rights and the Freedom Charter.

The language of human rights is indeed becoming a universal language. It is increasingly becoming the standard against which the world judges countries, and countries judge the world.

Last year, we celebrated the 50th Anniversary of the Freedom Charter. This year, we shall celebrate the 30th Anniversary of the 16 June massacre of innocent young people who were fighting for human rights to be enjoyed by all. We shall also be celebrating the 50th anniversary of the Women’s March, which was about fighting for the people to be treated with dignity.

As we remind ourselves about these important revolutionary events, I think it is important for me to ask the same questions which were asked by the then Deputy President of our country, now the President of South Africa, the hon Thabo Mbeki, in 1997 as to whether we are making the requisite progress in building a nonracial society; in building a nonsexist country; in healing the divisions of the past; in achieving a peaceful co-existence of all our people; in creating development opportunities for all South Africans, irrespective of colour, race or class, belief or sex; in improving the quality of life of all citizens; whether our actions have been and are based on the recognition of injustices of the past, and whether our actions have genuinely sought to promote the integrated constitutional objectives of national unity, the well-being of South Africans, peace and reconciliation between the people of South Africa, and the reconstruction of our society.

Without fear of contradiction, I can say with pride that the ANC is committed to creating a nonracial society. Our policies and laws which have been passed in this House because of the ANC majority bears testimony to that. The 50% count of women in local government also bears testimony to our commitment to gender parity.

As long as we are still enjoying the confidence of our people, we shall continue to implement policies that strive to achieve a nonsexist society.

We commit ourselves to continuing to fight poverty, unemployment and all issues that degrade our people. We shall continue to mobilise society to fight the abuse of women and children. It is important to bear in mind that it is not only the state that can be guilty of human rights abuses. Private citizens can also be guilty of such acts.

We also commit ourselves to better the lives of the youth and the people living with disabilities because we believe that all must be equal before the law. All must enjoy the country’s wealth. The doors of learning and culture must be open to all. There must be peace, security and comfort. The land must be shared among those who work it. Unless one achieves these ideals, human rights will be meaningless. There shall be a fleeting illusion that can be pursued but never achieved.

On behalf of the ANC, let me thank all those who participated in this debate, even those who said a lot of nothings. Let me also thank the hon Malahlela for making my life very easy in educating the hon Dene Smuts. She has embarrassed herself dismally today. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 17:31. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Translation of Bill submitted

 (1)    The Minister of Finance


     (a)     Begrotingswetsontwerp [W 2 – 2006] (National Assembly –
         sec 77)


     This is the official translation into Afrikaans of the
     Appropriation Bill [B 2 – 2006] (National Assembly – sec 77).

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Assembly

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Trade and Industry on Budget Vote 32: Trade and Industry, dated 17 March 2006:

The Committee received a briefing from the Department on Trade and
Industry (DTI) on the Strategic Plan and Budget Vote of the Department
on 15 March 2006.


The Context


The Director – General outlined the context around which the strategic
plan was formulated. These include achieving and sustaining higher GDP,
a need to increase job creation, a need to increase investment, the
need to increase exports, broadening economic participation by means of
BB-BEE and enterprise development as well as recording levels of
consumer and business confidence. Also, the shortage of skilled labour,
volatility of the Rand, low inflation and interest rates.


Strategic Objectives


These include promoting direct investment and growth in the industrial
and services economy focusing on employment creation, contributing
towards the development and regional integration of the African
Continent within the NEPAD framework as well as promoting broader
participation, equity redress in the economy and raising the level of
exports to promote global trade.


Achievements


   • National Consumer Credit Bill published for comment.
  • Consumer Bill approved by Cabinet.
  • Draft Companies Bill discussed with local and international
    reference team.
  • Competition Policy Review document finalised.
  • Effective participation in the 6th WTO Ministerial Conference.
  • Ongoing engagement between SACU and US on possible FTA exploratory
    talks with India.
  • 13 Investment Protection Agreements and Bilateral cooperation
    agreements concluded.
  • Apex Fund launched in 5 provinces.
  • Finalised Codes of Good Practice.


Strategic Goals


 • Policies and Strategies, for example, Trade policy, WTO, bilaterals,
   Africa and NEPAD.
 • Legislation and Regulation, for example, National Lotteries Act.
 • Enterprise and Industrial Finance, for example, Apex Fund operational
   on 1 April 2006.
 • Support for the Strategy for example, focus on recruiting, developing
   and retaining skills.


Budget


The DTI’s budget has evolved over the years. As the responsibilities
increase so does the budget. Enterprise and Industry development
combined uses more than half of the budget (33,7% and 38,7%)
respectively. Other than that 8,9% is spent on Administration, TISA is
allocated 8,8%, 4% is used for Consumer and Corporate Regulation, 3,5%
for International Trade and Economic development and 2,4% for
Marketing. This is from a total budget of R3 665 900.


Comments
Members’ thorough questions and comments interacted with the
presentation critically as the full minutes of the meeting attests. The
Chairperson thanked the DG of DTI as well as his colleagues and members
for their contribution to the meeting.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation on the Oversight Visit to the Eastern Cape, dated 15 March 2006:

2. Background:

Report of the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation on the oversight visit to the Eastern Cape dated 15 March 2006, reports as follows:

The Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation undertook an oversight visit to the Eastern Cape as part of the oversight function. The visit took place from 17 to 21 October 2005. The delegation visited Port Elizabeth, Grahamstown, East London and King William’s Town. The multiparty delegation that constituted the visit to the Eastern Cape was:

Mr B M Komphela, Chairperson (ANC); Mr M M Dikgacwi (ANC); Mr C T Frolick (ANC); Mr E Mtshali (ANC); Ms D M Morobi (ANC); Mr L Reid (ANC); Mr S J Masango (DA) N Mbuqe (Committee Secretary) and N Chaso (Committee Assistant)

1. Terms of reference:

The aim of the visit was to:

1. Visit the key nodal areas where community mass participation programmes have been launched by Sport and Recreation South Africa [SRSA] and development plans for the Indigenous Games and Mass Participation Programmes (MPP) for the disabled and women.
2. Determine the understanding and the preparedness of the province on School Sport after the signing of MOU between SRSA and Department of Education Ministers.
3. Meet with the local sport councils and management committees of the provincial academies on their admission/selection criteria and programmes, linkages to the national academy and sources of funding in terms of corporate entities. Meet with sport councils to establish their involvement in national events such as the 2010 World Cup and also the plans they have for rural areas because sport councils are a direct responsibility of the national department and to find out how they are resourced by the department.
4. Visit areas where Building for Sport and Recreation programme (BSRP) is implemented, evaluation on the efficacy of the programme with regards to mass community participation and determining the state of readiness of local structures to become implementing agents for the programme.
5. The impact of MIG in building of sport facilities.

Port Elizabeth

1. Meeting at Nelson Mandela Metro on 2010 World Cup presentation

The delegation gave a broad overview of the objective of the visit. The deputy executive mayor gave brief background of the municipality and emphasised the need of frequent interactions with municipality, provincial and national legislatures. The regular interactions would improve delivery of services. He assured the meeting that whatever decisions will be taken would be for a good cause. Mr. Komphela, the leader of the delegation, added on the intensive discussions that the Committee and other provinces already visited feel about MIG. He mentioned the difficulty and the time it is taking to build facilities compared to Building for Sport and Recreation Programme (BSRP).

Councillor Charmaine Williams responded to the issues tabled by the delegation that some need to be addressed as: • A challenge of division within the sport codes needs urgent attention. • In order to get funding from MIG fund a project must be in place in the current budget that makes things hectic because budget is a big challenge. • Lottery Fund impacts heavily on councils to maintain facilities. Letters that must accompany the applications are received very late most of the time. • The more the municipality upgrades and maintains facilities impact on the maintenance budget. Those applying are advised that their plans must fit with the municipality plan and identify the nodes that need facility upgrading. There are presently seven identified sport nodes. Lottery has made a big impact and nodes have benefited a lot but not enough has been done. • There is restructuring grant given by National Treasury of R500 000 for maintaining sport facilities. A sport facility manager will be a solution to this problem, not a caretaker. • Each ward has a representative for facility maintenance and to avoid vandalism in the areas. • Motherwell facility is considered for World Cup 2010 as a training field. • Municipal manager has been tasked to look at the leased facilities.

The deputy mayor proposed that the Provincial education department and municipality must reach an agreement on maintaining their sport fields at school level, ie. service level agreement, so that schools can pay after getting the invoice for services rendered.

Presentation on preparedness of Nelson Mandela Metro for 2010 WC

The main objective is to get the city status for games. Construction will start in March 2006, hoping for completion in December 2007. A detailed audit is done on safety and security. Seven hospitals not less than seven minutes from the stadiums is good. The distances between stadiums, hospitals and transport points have been calculated and planned accordingly.

Questions/concerns

• A concern was raised about the small airport and whether is it going
  to handle the arrival of people.
• Has the municipality been in contact with LOC for the announcement? As
  the municipality has proposed R476m from the National Treasury, what
  would be the municipality’s commitment?
• Will the facility be used after the World Cup?
• What plans are there for the municipality regarding the rugby stadium
  that is not suitable for the Soccer World Cup?
• Are the volunteers qualified health workers?

Responses

• An overall plan to upgrade the airport is online but the landing strip
  is being attended to. Need assistance in lobbying since SAA cut down
  planes to PE. This will impact on viability of landing.
• In terms of budget everyone is waiting for the announcement.
  Professional consultants are employed with R22m raised from
  commitments. The stadium is going to be Vision 2020 project with long-
  term loan. The facility should be multipurpose for rugby, soccer, etc,
  but no athletic track on it.
• Rugby stadium is found unsuitable but there is another plan for the
  site, but rugby will be relocated.
• Health volunteers are not all qualified as health workers but are
  given training on basic health care.

Mr Gidane added that on soccer development there was Soccer Indaba hosted in October 2001 and Vodacom teams invested R1,7m. Visit to Nelson Mandela Soccer Stadium

The project is on a municipal land named Prince Albert Park Bowling Club. It is identified for the building of a stadium for 2010 World Cup. The identified area used to be white-dominated, but now owned by 70% Black. There are four routes coming from other areas, taxis, train station closer and the area is easily accessible and is very advantageous looking at the distance from other townships. The decision has been communicated throughout, including sport structures, during preparations.

Meeting with Eastern Province [EP] rugby

Mr Phillip Joseph, CEO, gave a detailed presentation on governance issue, challenges and recommendations about the rugby issues, as follows:

• It is governed by its constitution. The present structure was elected
  end of 2004 consisting of one president, 2 deputy presidents and vice
  presidents. From this structure some are responsible for high and
  primary schools, one in charge of disciplinary issues and there is no
  provision for by elections in the constitution.
• The area stretches from Tsitsikama to Karoo with five (5) subunits.
• Subunions have elected structures that play in super leagues and from
  the 115 clubs, competitions are arranged among the subunions. The top
  24 are top leagues and are divided into top 12 and bottom 12.
• Second division is divided into three legs that are named after
  heroes.
• There are also subcommittees that meet monthly, e.g. finance and also
  executive committee meets every month end on the second Thursday. The
  Union comprises of 15 unions out of the 115 clubs.
• Rugby is divided into two, the commercial and non-commercial.
• The challenge for schools is finance to buy equipment or kit when
  children had to go to competitions.
• Women structure is well organised in the Nelson Mandela Metro, but
  missed the provincial league in 2002, and amateur level is also sound.

Questions/concerns/comments

• Rugby is in shambles as quoted by the Minister, what challenges are
  experienced by EP rugby? Dispute with is rugby solid taking into
  account the suspension of the CEO and dispute with South African Rugby
  Union [SARU]?
• Can you report on EP being radio on Saturdays? What is the financial
  status and what are professional challenges?
• Is transformation programme in place? What are the problems with rugby
  boundaries versus political demarcations? Responses

• After 1995 when rugby moved to professionals it became alive and
  created by business people.
• EP team is losing due to lack of sponsorship. Media plays a role and
  by doing so chases away sponsors, that is why it is seen as in
  shambles.
• Those people who go to radios are the ones holding high positions and
  they also chase away sponsors.
• SARU MANCO suspended the whole EP rugby but they are not supposed to
  do so constitutionally. They suspended the executive to do an
  investigation and after findings the report was given to EP to deal
  with and SARU pulled off.
• Never had a single game on TV as a team.

Response • In favour of legislation on transformation of sport to bridge the gaps. • Don’t have funds to buy players. • Another allocation of R2,5m from Lottery but have not received it yet. • Rugby has regular interactions with local government and assistance but have a problem with rates. The structure owes municipality for rates and taxes but have always argued. The present payment is R19 000 a month for rates. • In terms of transformation, EP rugby suggested five players for a start in the team although that is not enough, but racial numbers are not an issue anymore.

Follow-up questions

• What needs to be done to put rugby back on track?
• What is the relationship with the provincial DSR in terms of school
  rugby and relationship with the municipality?
• How Lottery funds were used?
• Contracting of players is believed that Whites and Africans are given
  different amounts? Can this be clarified?

Responses

• Got R1,7m from Lottery, R1m for equipment to structures, R717m for kit
  and submitted a report to Lottery. All went to school, clubs for
  equipment and women rugby received too.
• Rugby does not have to contract but look at the availability of
  resources.
• About schools, the challenge is to ensure sport programmes are not
  watered down.

Meeting with Eastern Province (EP) cricket

The President reported on governance and other issues responding to the objectives and clarities tabled by the leader of the delegation as follows:

• The Board and members drew up the constitution prior to 2003. United
  Cricket Board [UCB] instructed the federation not to operate in one
  body but as professional and amateur. They had to have two separate
  bodies with two constitutions. Old board was taken to court for
  judicial management. Two people were appointed to draw up a
  constitution. There were a lot of disputes, but the new constitution
  was accepted.
• The cricket structure consists of the youth, women, amateur, school
  cricket and professionals.
• Accusation on racism by amateur cricket is not accurate or true.
• Forensic Audit Report findings were that there was no other person
  found with crime. Only one was involved. That resulted in nobody
  convicted out of that report. Scorpions contacted EP for the report
  and the president of UCB, Ray Mali took it to the Scorpions. The
  matter is now closed because Scorpions found nothing.
• Three issues were raised about finance, Black African representation
  and Constitution

The agreement was to have Constitutional Indaba by January 2006 with UCB on concerns about money and facilities.

Questions/concerns

  • Are there subunions at the present, if yes, how many? How is voting
    work?
  • How long is the faction with Black forum?
  • Any coaching in rural areas? Any people promoted to professionals?

Responses

  • Yes, four. The subunions are (i) Nelson Mandela  (ii) Winterberg
    (iii) Grahamstown and (iv) Central Karoo and voting power is based
    on the number of clubs, e.g. Nelson Mandela can send two people but
    have six votes.
  • Two years of Black forum functioning.
  • There are three coordinators deployed for development programmes.
  • There are squads to assist coaches to train more coaches.

Meeting with Eastern Province SAFA The short presentation gave a broad background about the structure. They noted that the code is well spread across the province taking equity into consideration. It has a committee of ten people with elections held every two years. On the question of demarcation, the code holds council meetings every second Monday of the month with all district subcommittees to hand over reports of disciplinary committee or finance etc. Written reports are demanded and the committee cannot have a say without it.

One team is campaigning in the Mvela league. In the Vodacom league there are six male teams and five female teams funded by Nelson Mandela Metro for R290 000. Castle league teams are sixteen. In the district leagues, the northern areas with Coloured people have been dominating until the township guys showed up strongly. There is USSASA and industrial league. There is a strict registration policy where one plays for one team for the season. Nkosomzi Ndongeni is in charge of development and has 34 coaching at an introductory level. There is an academy but struggling financially focusing on under 14-boys. The structure interacts with Department of Sport and Recreation in the province; Nelson Mandela Metro Municipality; Border and Transkei components.

A questions was raised about how funding from Nelson Mandela Metro is reaching EP cricket. The response was they received R1,7m through grant aid and Nelson Mandela Metro funded the male team for R80 000 and female team for R45 000.

Viewing of facilities

Avenue A facility

This facility is known as Dodge’s ground in New Brighton location. The Executive Mayor, Mr. Faku, has decided to have a drive for soccer teams in the township and gave R400 000 for each field for the first phase. All clubs will use this Dodger’s field and a management committee from the community will be identified to manage it. The field will be ready by the next season but will be only be utilised next year when changing rooms, ablution system and stands are constructed. The cost is estimated to be R500 000 without a caretaker house.

Parking will be provided in Hoza Community Hall closer also belonging to the facility. People will be encouraged not to use cars but to walk to the facility to reduce obesity and promote healthy community. It is a well-fenced basic facility that would accommodate about 1 000 people. Oval Park

There is a clubhouse, changing rooms and boardroom with toilets all in good condition. It is built in the heart of the township. The field is not level due to over utilisation. There are floodlights, stands and a soccer field. After the games the soccer body can have drinks and can also hold meetings in the clubhouse. The district has an office inside the oval. This is a very high standard facility.

Red Location Museum

This was shown to the delegation as part of showcasing the site that would invite tourists to the poor community. There is a curio shop that will be given to service provider, a restaurant and tuck shop at the entrance. The intention of the museum is to keep people for a day learning about history. The auditorium is meant for history with twelve memory boxes and with fifteen pillars done by community forum with themes selected by the forum. The pillars have pictures of freedom fighters with their full biographies. Each picture will be kept for a certain period and put the next one, but the biography or history of the person will be engraved and live in the pillar for good.

Woolfson Stadium

This facility is identified as the training venue for the big event, i.e. 2010 World Cup. Another upper layer will be built for media, press and Jacuzzi in the next phase. The grass will be revamped totally to meet FIFA standards. The capacity is envisaged to be about 18 000. There are cement stands right around. Transport is easily accessible as the field is built centrally.

Motherwell field This is one of the President’s nodal points. The facility is first-class built in phases through poverty alleviation and BSRP. It has titanic tracks and floodlights. It has been identified as training venue as well. This facility needs to be extended with MIG funds but things are not easy. There is no grandstand presently, but is planned to fit the structure.

KwaNobuhle

This has been identified by joint venture of Aerospace and Sport and Recreation South Africa [SRSA] for R1m once off. The total cost is R5m with another R5m from the municipality which adds up to R10m in total. The community did not want the facility since they were not involved in the planning. People were later called together to utilise the facility. The field was meant for hockey but now it’s a multipurpose. UCB gave R500 000 for oval but is not maintaining it. Lottery built netball field for R250

1. This field is also identified as a training venue. There are about 500 people for indoor volleyball and netball. Hockey and soccer fields are in a very good condition.

Marock Road field

This field is badly vandalised in a no-go area. This belonged to Burbok before as their home ground before amalgamation with EP. The ground is flat with depleted netball courts and rugby poles. The municipality would like to redevelop it despite the situation. There is a high crime rate and gansterism in the area. There is a close informal settlement where people have occupied the municipal ground reserved for parking. A lot is happening in this field, like murder, rape and child molestation.

Galvandale Precinct

This is a joint venture between Lottery, cricket, municipality and Sport and Recreation South Africa. A French rugby test was played and televised in this facility. There is a swimming pool and track. The community would like Brazil team to station here. The precinct has a lot of facilities e.g. hockey; cricket; rugby; tennis courts. There are a number of soccer and cricket players in the national squads produced from this field. Machinery is kept in the caretaker’s cottage. Hockey field has astroturf (synthetic grass) with hockey clubhouse.

Visit to Eastern Cape Academy of Sport

The manager, Ms Bernice Butlion, presented. She briefed the delegation about the four satellites in Umtata (Walter Sisulu University); Alice (Fort Hare); East London (Border Technikon) and Port Elizabeth (Nelson Mandela University). In the satellite stations there are contracted service providers that are not permanently employed. There are challenges in the region of Transkei, but talent is nurtured working with structures.

Lottery gave equipment for high performance centre based in East London. Capacity building programme is available. There are currently 238 athletes in the database. The process of talent identification is left with federations. Funding is from Lottery. SRSA pays salaries. Department of Sport and Recreation [DSR] (provincial) is responsible for mass participation programmes. Management board of the Eastern Cape decides on selection of programmes.

Students are offered opportunities of in-service training and services for SA Games are also offered. Eastern Cape Academy of Sport has biokinetics for sport rehabilitation. There will be a new high performance strategy from SASCOC. Sport audits have been done on the number of clubs available and number of facilities to be upgraded. The academy is targeting high performance talent to develop and support them.

Mr Gidane added that Nelson Mandela Metro Municipality [NMMM] participated in decorating the gym room and are prepared to respond to the challenge of sport. A permanent venue for the academy will be built at the stadium closer to the people.

Questions/concerns

The delegation sought clarity on fees paid by the athletes, who recommends the athletes, identification of talent and the relationship with high schools. Another concern was whether there is vision for transformation in place in the academy.

The manager gave the following responses:

There are selection criteria in place. Provincial federations are bringing talents and are given the criteria. Athletes must also represent their provinces first. The academy is faced with challenges of Matatiele and Port St Johns where language plays a major challenge. Most athletes are illiterate and plans should be in place for language lessons or classes. There are no qualified coaches because they stop at level one (1). Bernice has requested an assistant manager in the case of her leaving. The academy is trying to appoint a specialist coach for each code.

The leader of the delegation gave some questions that needed full written response to be sent to the Committee. The questions are as follows: • How do you relate with long-time coaches but without accreditation? • Any relationship with SAFA? Does accreditation comes from you or SAFA? • What is the role of SASCOC? • What amount of money is SASCOC putting up as the drivers of the academy?

The manager commended the visit. The leader of the delegation commended the academy for offering the learnership to students.

Meeting with media at Nelson Mandela Metro City Hall.

Media 24, Johnnic, Umhlobo Wenene, Radio Algoa

• What can be done with Marock Road?
• Clarity about the competition between Thekwini and Nelson Mandela
  Metro.
• What is Bisho’s financial commitment?
• What is the position for competition between EL and PE?
• What plans are there for training of people?
• When is the announcement?

Responses were from the municipality and the delegation, as follows:

An application has gone through to Lottery Fund for revamping. The delay was technical attachment of documents accompanying the application.

Local organising committee gave document about series of games and four games will be played in PE. EC is one of the provinces that will be getting semi-final game. Municipalities that wish to host opening ceremony must convince the LOC, but Thekwini looks highly prepared. NMMM will embark on a provincial strategy on how the province will benefit.

In principle Bisho is 100% guaranteed. In terms of training, skills transfer will be on the plans. DBSA has done intensive research on requisite skills. The announcement will be known after the final site recommendation by FIFA delegation.

Meeting with EP Sport Council

The delegation sought clarity from Nelson Mandela Metro Council on why there are two delegations of sport councils. In terms of moving towards one sport council a question was how far the process and those discussions to conclude towards one sport council. Mr Abrahams spoke on behalf of EPSC as the secretary. He noted that they have tried so hard for good governance and quality of administration as well as accountability. The council has been running since 1990 with a drawback of financial issues. The council was told to disband and another organisation to take over without proper consultation. No research was done whether this was going to work or not.

Mr Abrahams has been trying to get information from DSR even with the MEC, but was disappointed with the management treatment. He requested written document of the objectives of DSR. The council had a meeting with the officials who promised to come back but never did so. DSR is a problem in terms of dealing with the sport councils. Nelson Mandela Metro tried to convene the meeting but it was a short notice so the council could not attend.

Mr. Abrahams was asked whether any regular meetings are held. He responded that every second year elections take place. The reason for disbanding was a decision to change boundaries. Previously there were four regions and insufficient consultation caused confusion for sport codes. The question of racism is another concern. The sport council hope to unite and work together. There is confusion regarding school sport (USSASA).

Mr Komphela voiced concerns about the demarcations process that is not complying to the political ones.

Nelson Mandela Metro Sport Council

It started the process in 2003 driven by Messrs Nkwinti and Makubalo from DSR. They have been organising sport trying to demarcate other districts with sport councils except Nelson Mandela Metro Sport Council (7 districts). The process could not solve the conflict and delayed the launch of sport councils. NMMM department met with EPSC, but EPSC indicated not to form part and could not be told by government as NGO.

MEC launched EPSC that gave birth of 7 districts. The first project was the occasion of Sport Achievers Award by MEC. They wrote to the MEC requesting the meeting. Mr. Komphela made an undertaking that the two bodies must meet and discuss intensively on unity of the two structures in order to develop sport. The task was given to the Standing Committee on Sport and Culture in the province. For intervention on issues of conflict or difficulty the provincial chairperson requested the sport councils to forward petition to the Committee or Speaker of the province whenever there is a problem.

CACADU DISTRICT - GRAHAMSTOWN

Meeting at Makana Municipality

After the objectives have been tabled by the delegation the director of sport, Ms Vusani requested Mr Nkwinti to give full response on the issues tabled by the delegation since she is new in the position.

Mr. Nkwinti responded as follows: • The sport councils extend across the nine municipalities and he is currently shouldering the running of sport councils. • The district office is in Grahamstown but expected to service the nine municipalities and some are in difficulties within Cacadu. Some don’t take it as their responsibility to assist, but those financially sound do assist. • Makana municipality is the only one with appointed sport officer. DSR has joint programmes with the municipality. • The major challenge is that EP Rugby and cricket are based in Port Elizabeth while servicing the rural areas for the entire Cacadu. SAFA is not a problem as they have agreed to follow political demarcations. Provincial sport councils are handling the matter of EP Rugby having to have Cacadu structure. • A proposal that a Cacadu Academy be established due to the distance from Cacadu to UPE. A fire station has been converted to sport facility as indoor sport centre. The most exciting news is the relationship with Rhodes University and use of their facilities.

Municipal Infrastructure Grant [MIG]

 • The municipality does not understand the transfer of funds from BSRP
   to MIG, as they don’t consider building sport facilities as their
   core function. The sport councils contribute strongly to IDPs and
   make their inputs in terms of sport and they also insist on inclusion
   now.
 • Mr. Budaza, sport officer, has a duty to maintain facilities and
   develop sport programmes with seven groundsmen and three caretakers.
   The area is busy finishing cricket field with funds received from UCB
   amounting to R912 000 and R3,1m from Lottery Fund. They also managed
   to work with soccer with an amount of R943 000 received from Lottery.
   Department of Sport and Recreation is in partnership with Rhodes
   University.
 • Ten (10) schools are appointed and were given soccer balls and
   training on soccer courses. There are not much done on programmes.
   The only programme is “Come and Play” from 4 to 15 years at present.
 • Aerobics take place in three venues in Makana Municipality. Every
   three days a week prisons are assisted with training with joint
   programmes with Rhodes University.
 • Challenges
     - In the townships there are no facilities.
     - Volunteers are in dire need of assistance for transport and
       equipment.
     - In the settlement areas there are no open spaces to build
       recreational facilities.
     - Levelling of school grounds.
     - A need for a sport centre. Cacadu is supposed to cover all other municipalities, but Makana has been identified to have capacity to do on its own.

Integrated Development Plans

• Sport is covered but not enough
• There is signed agreement with the Department of Sport and Rhodes
  University
• Makana resolved to look at sport councils as far as administration is
  concerned and to facilitate summits.

Sport Councils inputs

The chairperson, Ms Futshane, told the delegation that they met with the Mayor and he supports running and funding of sport councils. The council was launched in February 2005 with no funds and resources, but the Mayor supported the summit. The municipality also complain of not having resources for sport. During summit municipalities were requested to present their IDPs; some did and some did not have an idea of MIG.

In terms of facilities, the council is looking at the needs and at having database so as to develop those codes that don’t need much space, e.g. table tennis, chess, etc. Need to have same programmes so that allocation of funds could be achieved and to start from the grassroots in order to meet the big federations. Funds should be decentralised so that sport councils could be able to plan.

Challenges

• In terms of facilities and equipment there is a need for training of
  people, e.g. coaches, referees etc.
• Competing priorities, e.g. water, sanitation etc
• Have operational plans in place but road show and skills audit for the
  district, development and training of sport councils still a
  challenge. Questions from the delegation

  • What is the sport budget?
  • How does the municipality help sport councils?
  • Who tries to get school grounds maintained?
  • What would be the reason not to get funds from MIG?
  • How much access is there in getting the funds from MIG?

Responses

 • The municipality told the delegation that there is no dedicated line
   item for sport.
 • The municipality plays a facilitating role in accessing funds, e.g.
   Lottery.  No funds have been used on MIG to develop sport facilities
   due to other priorities as communities inform decisions on
   priorities.
 • Play maintenance role.
 • The municipality was looking at service delivery and ward councillors
   don’t look at sport fields due to pressure of lights and sanitation.
 • There has not been a request to make a contribution of getting funds
   from MIG.

The provincial acting chairperson noted that sport bodies must be part of discussions during IDP meetings. The area could have a lot of tourism. He also emphasised that all structures must follow the political boundaries in terms of demarcations.

Mr. Budaza, the sport officer, noted that schools don’t pay for using the facilities. Nombulelo School was given R500 000 for cricket, but they are stuck because facilities are not maintained. There have been talks with the White schools to negotiate that they pay for diesel so that municipality could cut the grass. Schools are covered under IDPs. He told the delegation that professional fees are paid by municipality. A proposal is drawn of 2010 Organising Committee since there are historical buildings in the town, etc.

The mobile gym brought by SARU was applied for by Brumbies and was kept secret. The subunion was told later. A policy with municipality is that the municipality does not work with individuals.

Visit to the sites

 1. Legacy Stadium


     • There is a legacy field for cricket left by World Cup 2003.
     • Rugby also has one from 1995 World Cup.
     • Indoor sport centre caters for development programmes of kids to
       run up to 5 o’clock; after that aerobics and then basketball and
       netball alternately.
     • Equipment is also available for gym in a big indoor facility
       that is also used for school exams. No one pays for aerobics
       only those using machines pay.
     • Rugby field has got good grass but not soccer field. The
       municipality suggested having a temporary athletics tracks, as
       there is no athletic facility in the whole of Cacadu.
     • At the heritage place there is a proposal drawn for multipurpose
       for rugby, soccer, netball and athletic tracks.
     • UCB contributed R980 000.


 2. Soccer field
     • In this one the plan is to renovate tennis court.
     • 36 soccer clubs who play on two soccer fields that pushed the
       municipality to have another one; also schools and netball use
       it.
     • Will revamp the field with nets as it is totally overused.

 3. Egazini field


     • This is a heritage site under South African Heritage Resource
       Agency [SAHRA]. Black people kicked the first rugby ball here. A
       multipurpose will be built. SAHRA will also have their own
       projects and houses around the heritage site will be demolished
       to accommodate all the plans of sport and arts. Meeting at Buffalo City Municipality

Mr. Zwelibanzi responded fully to the objectives set out by the delegation. He noted that communities are using school facilities and the municipality has no competency on developing or maintaining school grounds. The municipality needs to find ways of how to do that. Stadiums are not enough and municipality maintains only 2% because there is no budget for that. Even boxing uses school grounds for training but municipality cannot ask Department of Education on their budget for maintenance since it is not their terrain.

The municipality is presently dealing with ordinances that the communities are not aware of. There is 2010 Local Organising Committee established headed by Councillor Mbovane. It consists of ten (10) members with seven directors from the council including engineers, etc. This committee also has a programme coordinating all relevant requirements of FIFA. Experts beyond the borders of the countries like Netherlands. Tweening etc. The tenders would like to put funding in the projects including local tenders that have presented to the committee.

Bush Bucks is the only stakeholder and only club in the Eastern Cape; Daimler Chrysler is a sponsoring supporter to the club and guaranteed partnership. The municipality needs a share between Nelson Mandela Metro and Buffalo City but not a competition fixture. The City is on the verge of having two five star hotels to meet FIFA requirements, but looking beyond 2010 Soccer World Cup event for Rugby 2011 World Cup and whatever other events could be hosted in the country.

Buffalo City is affected by media speculation pre-empting what FIFA would pronounce, but would be happy to meet with the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation nationally and 2010 Local Organising Committee nationally. There is a budget passed by the Council. The delegation wanted to know if DBSA assessed East London for their preparedness and if the possible sites are already identified for 2010 event.

Mr. Zwelibanzi responded that they have not met with DBSA due to rumours that Buffalo City was not part of the bid. ABSA Stadium is earmarked for development. Sites are identified in strategic areas.

On facility management the municipality has two approaches to sport because of international and local venues. Investment in sport facilities is R13m, and four swimming pools with one revamped in Zwelitsha. R4, 7m from Lottery for SA Games to heat swimming pool. Darts were hosted in December. There is a ground at Masingatha for cricket legacy programme. R6m is for upgrading in Zwelitsha and R1,5m to comply with safety standards. There are meetings with sports councils on regular basis. Other priorities are not allowed to override sport money.

Mdantsane, the second largest township in the country, does not have a swimming pool. That results in tragedies on the beaches due to water illiteracy. A swimming pool is a dire need in Mdantsane.

Meeting with the Amathole District Sports Councils

Mr. Ncinane, the chairperson, presented on the following:

• Sport councils decided to follow the seven regions of the political
  demarcation after meeting coordinated by MEC.  A yearly programme was
  launched with regard to the Municipal Manager of Amathole District and
  the programme submitted with regard to the provincial department in
  the municipality on 19 January 2006. On 25 January the sport councils
  were told that finances would be available in June, on a road show and
  with seven sport councils under Amathole District. The finances got to
  the sport councils on 6 August instead of June, which was supposed to
  be for 16 June commemoration and that was first and last.  Since
  funding of sport is not a core function of local municipalities and
  they don’t want to fund sport, there is no properly elected team to
  represent Amathole District in the Eastern Cape trials. The sport
  council as a result do not have an account because there are no funds
  allocated to them.
• There are facilities built but remain unfinished, especially in rural
  areas. Adelaide doesn’t have even one facility in Nxuba Municipality.
  As soon as the facility is finished a workshop is supposed to be held
  to ensure that facilities are not vandalised. There is no basic
  training on managing the facilities.
• Funding should come from the provincial department and municipality
  after submission of programme to Amathole. SA Games are supposed to be
  for the sport councils but they were not even consulted during the
  Games. From Sport Indaba a document was produced on how to work
  together with Amathole but the sport councils are still waiting for
  that document. Presentation by Mdantsane Sports Council [MDASCO]

• Monthly meetings are held with municipality and the council is
  briefed about the budget to work around. However, it is only utilised
  for one venue, Sisa Dukashe, and it has not even finished the
  project. The council has gone to urban renewal but were not assisted
  which was supposed to change the face of Mdantsane.
• There are fourteen codes, but mainly soccer and boxing. Boxers don’t
  have facilities or gyms. The council spoke to municipality for
  permission to use hall but have not been able to get that. They even
  use boots of their cars as offices. The boxing arena is being
  finalised with R2m from national department. Boxing arena
  multipurpose centre is a drop in the ocean.

Mr. Zwelibanzi indicated the pace at which the department puts money into the urban renewal also needs stakeholders. Executives of the council must go together to apply for funds, not individually. The sport councils were asked if they are part of IDP discussions and how their relationship with the ward councillors is.

The secretary of Amathole District Sport Council indicated that they were elected in 2004. There was a road show initiated to link up all sport councils to showcase their role. They met with the municipal managers to build relationship with municipalities. The only offer they get from municipality is use of office phones, but most of the time they use their own money. There is no provision of transport after hours from the municipality.

They were asked if the clubs are paying joining fees and were advised to work with councillors so that they can influence even the budget. Amongst responses was that clubs don’t come as clubs but as associations which means sport councils are faced with well-off codes and Cinderella codes don’t have money. The charge is R50. The council is involved with and municipality give councillors money, but each councillor would want to put it in his or her area, and the decision taken is to sit with them to discuss sport issues on how to utilise money. The affiliation fees are still discussed to fit into the new demarcation and amend the constitution.

Mr Zwelibanzi added that the department is assisting with capacity building. MDASCO must work in the sport centre in Mdantsane and there are four offices. A comment was made that in Peddie politicians are not supporting the programmes of sport councils.

Meeting with Eastern Cape Sport Councils

The President of Eastern Cape Sport Councils, Ms Manqoyi, welcomed the presence of the national committee in the hope that it will make a difference. She took the delegation through the reasons for revival of sport councils. All seven districts are represented in the province. It was formed in April 2005 because of the resolution from Imbizo with Department of Sport and Recreation and to formulate blueprint either end or beginning of next year in Indaba Sport.

The aim is to centralise the office in the province for access purposes. Presently the council is operating in DSR offices. The relationship with municipality differs from office to office. Those who are not interested should be influenced by sport council to gain interest. The main problem with facilities is the shifting of responsibility, e.g. no handing over after completion. Festivals in local government are not linked with sport programmes, e.g kwaNALOGA Games. Port St Johns did not participate in SA Games but participated in local government games, which should not be allowed. The relationship with DSR is good but one of the challenges is the pace of doing things.

She mentioned that there is lot of abundant human resource that need to be utilised that is caused by a lull between national federations and provinces, that would indicate where the lack is. There must be a database on athletes, e.g. accredited referee/coach etc.

The secretary-general of Eastern Cape Sport Council mentioned the difference in relations caused by the attitude between local municipality and local sport councils, such as that some municipalities don’t see the need of working with the sport councils, e.g. kwaNALOGA vs SA Games. He added that local municipality don’t give a clear picture of what MIG would be used for. The Mayoral Cup competition done by municipalities presents a problem in converging local municipality participants to a certain centre, because some municipalities cannot afford transporting of participants.

Questions/concerns

• What mechanisms in place to solve problems like two parallel
  structures in one municipality?
• What is the relationship with EC Academy of Sport?
• What is the relationship with national federations?

Ms Manqoyi responded that they wanted to use SA Games as a model to produce federations in the province and if MECs could do the same. She further pointed out that the problem with EP sport councils is a political one and NMMM is contributing to the matter as they support EP by funding their structures and not NMMM structures. Provincial federations affiliate to national federations and their straight linkage to provincial federation not via DSR or sport council is not right. DSR was notified about the need to interact with the Standing Committee on Sport and Recreation.

The national academy’s system is not clear and the academy at the University of Port Elizabeth needs to be moved away there and positioned centrally to avoid overshadowing by the institution. There must be seven satellites for each district. DSR need to take ownership of activities of sport in the academies.

Meeting with boxing structure

It was noted that amateur boxing is getting financial assistance from Department of Sport and Recreation, and South African National Amateur Boxing Organisation [SANABO] assists in tournaments. There are no facilities and they rely on using school halls and during school hall renovations they are kicked out. There is also lack of equipment. The delegation promised to follow up on the proposed Boxing Amendment Bill with the national Department of Sport. The delegation promised to follow up the concerns raised and stated that the provincial committee must also get closer involved with the boxing in the province.

Meeting with the MEC and officials in Bisho

Ms Jajula, MEC, welcomed the visit by the Portfolio Committee and appreciated what the delegation did in the province during the visit and the issues highlighted that would bring more light for delivery for sport. The delegation brought out issues that need to be followed up and those that need vigorous intervention by the department. The delegation also highlighted their concern about lack of coordination by department officials for the visit.

Amongst issues discussed was the status of the Safety at Sports Stadiums Bill proposed after the tragedy at Ellis Park, about its introduction or where the delay is. MEC also cited that there must be a way of making MIG work because its implementation has not moved since the shift from BSRP. The province took it for granted that local government knew how to access it. She wanted to find out how it can be reversed slightly and just a part of it be shifted back to the department and how local government can be aware that the fund is with them and the manner in which to access it.

As far as 2010 preparations, the province is running with it by holding monthly meetings and other forms of activities. Presently, there is a budget of R1,5m that is incremental and a director is assigned to run the process. In addition there will be four directors in the office. Provincial coordinating committee is also in place meeting monthly to look at broader issues and all partners are represented. There are flaws in the process caused by business people who are not united and a need to lobby big businesses for building facilities was noted. A stadium with a capacity for 40 000 will be built in Umtata and tenders will be advertised. The World Cup should be run in an African style in promoting heritage as well.

The issue of boxing was taken seriously by the MEC as alluded by the delegation and she further pointed out that managers are getting richer while boxers poorer by the day. The proposed Bill will make a big difference. She was not aware of parallel activities by the department and local government because that concept was never brought to the department.

OBSERVATIONS BY THE COMMITTEE: The delegation observed the situation in the province on different issues and gathered the following issues:

• The transfer of Building for Sport and Recreation funds to Municipal
  Infrastructure Grant is a big challenge and the impact of building
  facilities is frustrating.
• Lack of blueprint for sport in the country.
• Federations are in favour of legislation on transformation of sport to
  bridge the current gaps.
• Lack of indoor facilities that make it difficult for boxers to gym or
  practise. Illiteracy amongst the boxers. Boxing managers are rich
  while boxers are extremely poor, although they are the ones who are
  performing.
• The sport councils are battling to organise games due to poor
  communication between sport councils and local government. As a result
  KWANALOGA Games are running parallel with SA Games.
• The tension between two sport councils in Port Elizabeth that is
  paralysing development of sport and causing confusion to sport codes.
• Vandalism of facilities due to lack of facility managers in the
  country.
• Accessibility of Eastern Cape Academy of sport is a big problem. The
  province is vast with rural areas that cannot reach the academy with
  talents in their areas.

RECOMMENDATIONS

The Committee has recommended that:

• 5% from MIG conditional grants for maintenance of facilities must be
  exhausted and Department of Provincial and Local Government must
  inform other municipalities about this 5%.
• Communities better use indoor facilities so that the government must
  carry on with the programme of building them. An investigation must be
  done to determine which department build them.
• Nelson Mandela Metro Municipality must be assisted to resolve the
  tension between the two sport councils because it is a question of
  power.
• All caretakers looking after the facilities must be trained to take
  care and manage the facility. Black managers must be employed in big
  cities to gain experience and skill to manage the facility, not to
  only taking care of the grounds, especially those provinces that are
  going to build new stadiums and host 2010 World Cup games. Caretaker
  and facility manager have two different responsibilities.
• Sport and Recreation South Africa must provide the Committee with
  audit of all sport academies with clear guidelines, e.g what makes a
  sports academy? What are the basics that make an academy or a
  satellite with requirements or functions?
• Legislation on transformation of sport must be in place as soon as
  possible.

Report to be considered.