WEDNESDAY, 23 AUGUST 2006 __

                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

                                ____

The House met at 15:04.

The Deputy Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                             NEW MEMBERS



                           (Announcement)

The Deputy Speaker announced that the vacancies caused by the vacation of seats in the National Assembly of Mr M K Lekgoro and Mr G P Mngomezulu had been filled by the nomination of Ms P Daniels and Mr A J Nyambi with effect from 24 July 2006, respectively.

                         SOLEMN AFFIRMATION

Ms P Daniels and Mr A J Nyambi, accompanied by Ms P S Sekgobela and Mrs M M Malumise, made and subscribed the solemn affirmation, and took their seats.

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY

DEPUTY PRESIDENT

        Benefits of belonging to Progressive Women’s Movement

1. Mr I S Mfundisi (UCDP) asked the Deputy President:

   What are the short, medium and long-term benefits for the average woman of belonging to the Progressive Women’s Movement she launched recently? N1195E

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Deputy Speaker, I should like to thank the hon member for showing an interest in women’s issues because gender equality cannot be realised without men’s participation.

Let me clarify that the Progressive Women’s Movement is not a government initiative, though I had the privilege of attending its launch in Bloemfontein.

On 9 August 1956, thousands of women from all walks of life, all racial groups, even those who were not required to carry passes, marched to the Union Buildings in Pretoria. Women took part in the national liberation struggle, in the struggle for peace, democracy, nation-building and social and economic development in our country. This is what women are about, and this is what the women’s movement is about – taking forward that work in solidarity and working together in action.

The Progressive Women’s Movement in its submission to the Head of State noted some of the advances towards women’s empowerment and gender equality, especially in the form of women’s rights as guaranteed in the South African Constitution as well as other national legislation, and women’s participation in political and decision-making positions. However, they pointed out that many challenges remain. In their declaration they say that patriarchy still remains dominant and is so widespread in our society that it is almost accepted as normal and enforced through all other social institutions.

They also articulate that there are many challenges that women continue to face, even within this democracy. They express a concern that many women, particularly the working class, rural, farm and poor women, have not yet fully tasted the fruits of liberation. Many of them have not accessed basic services such as sanitation, clean water, land and electricity, as well as basic literacy, social security, etc. Their words echoed the declaration of the women who marched in 1956, which stated: ``We shall not rest until we have won for all our sisters the right to the enjoyment of democracy, equality, peace and development’’. This is what the Progressive Women’s Movement told us on the occasion of their launch and during the proceedings of the national celebration of the 50th anniversary of the Women’s March to the Union Buildings.

We have received three documents from the Progressive Women’s Movement. These are the memorandum from the Progressive Women’s Movement to the President of the Republic, the declaration of the Progressive Women’s Movement, and the Progressive Women’s Movement Platform of Action.

I am told that these documents are available in the public realm. I would invite the hon member to get hold of them because when he reads them he will note that the women did not speak of benefits for themselves, as his question suggests, but they intend to work, and are committing themselves to work, for all South Africans, but in particular for women, who form the majority of those who have not yet tasted the fruits of our liberation. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Deputy Speaker, I would like to thank the hon Deputy President for the elaborate manner in which she responded to the question. We also take note that women are there to be mothers to us all. We therefore commend the launch of this nongovernmental, nonpolitical and nonpartisan movement, which we hope will yield progressive values in society by not excluding some, as indicated by the Deputy President, because of their background or so.

The big question, however, is: How will it enhance the economic empowerment of all women, taking into account that a recent study by Empowerdex revealed that, among other shortcomings affecting women, South Africa ranked 56th out of 58 when measuring economic opportunities for women? I thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon member, would you repeat your question? I really thought it was a comment.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: The last part was a question.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: What was the question part?

Mr I S MFUNDISI: I don’t mind repeating it. The big question, however, is: How will it enhance the economic empowerment of all women, taking into account that a recent study by Empowerdex revealed that, among other shortcomings affecting women, South African women ranked 56th out of 58 when measuring economic opportunities for women?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is why we need you in the women’s movement.

Zisani izinto zamakhosikazi madoda. [Therefore men must grant women their rights.]

I think, and I may be biased in this regard, education remains one of the most important interventions that we need to empower women. Meaningful education will enable women to assert themselves and to take a meaningful role in the economy.

Clearly, a paradigm shift on the part of those who still have full control of the economy is also important. Through legislation and other persuasive means we have been trying to do that, but clearly, from the statistics that you have, we are not making enough advances.

I think, as a collective, we need to engage in whatever way we can with the captains of industry and those who have massive influence in the economy actually to look at women as essential participants in the economy who can and do contribute to the growth of the economy.

Ms J A SEMPLE: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Hon Deputy President, the Progressive Women’s Movement has a huge task ahead of it if it is going to succeed in breaking down the barriers that still face women, such as poverty, unemployment, gender violence and HIV/Aids. You have already mentioned that patriarchy is a fact of our society. It affects women in every community. Have reasonable, measurable goals been set for the Progressive Women’s Movement, with targets, times and dates? Or is it going to be just another talk-shop?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, I think the hon member is best advised to engage with the leadership of the Progressive Women’s Movement.

Ms M M SOTYU: Thank you, Deputy President.

Ndiyabulela Mam’uMlambo. Siwothulela umnqwazi la makhosikazi oMzantsi Afrika ngokusabela ikhwelo elenziwa nguMongameli uThabo Mbeki. [I thank you Madam Mlambo. We take our hats off to the women of South Africa for heeding the call that was made by President Thabo Mbeki.]

In the ANC statement of 8 January 2005, President Thabo Mbeki raised a concern about the nonexistence of a strong women’s movement in South Africa. As a result of that call, like-minded women came together to take this call forward, and on 5-7 August 2006 the Progressive Women’s Movement was launched in Bloemfontein in the Free State, my very own province.

Deputy President, what form of institutional support can be expected from the government for the initiative that is now embodied in this Progressive Women’s Movement? We also would like to congratulate Comrade President Thabo Mbeki for accepting the women’s memorandum on 9 August 2006 in Pretoria, unlike what Strijdom did 50 years ago. He could not take the pressure from the women and decided to run away. Thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you very much. In answering the hon member’s question, and bearing in mind the question that was asked by the other member, about how concrete the activities would be and how the government would collaborate, I would like to believe that this House and government in general will continue to support progressive legislation and intensify the implementation of legislation that supports women.

I also think that institutions such as the National Development Agency and the Independent Development Trust, in the work that they do with women, which is financed by government, will be able to reach out to those women and give support where there are concrete initiatives, programmes and projects that advance especially the economic wellbeing of women. I also believe that women must see government not just as a sponsor in this movement but as a partner, because government needs these women in order to implement effectively.

For example, one of the debates that took a lot of time in one of the commissions that I attended focused on the concerns that women have about universal access to basic services, especially in the rural areas, with regard to sanitation, water and so on. Women in government, in local authorities, become crucial as people who will ensure that we deliver on those services. But those who are service recipients who do not receive the services that are due to them are also important in monitoring and ensuring that they alert government where the services are either being provided shoddily or are not being accessed. So, continuous dialogue and a supportive partnership with government are therefore very important.

Ms S C VOS: Deputy Speaker, hon Deputy President, I am sure that you will agree with all of us that issues affecting women and children are essentially human rights issues. So, while acknowledging, of course, that the Progressive Women’s Movement may well indeed be a very laudable civil initiative, as you have pointed out, is it not also in reality yet another response to what is seen by many as the failure of the Gender Commission, the Office on the Status of Women and the Human Rights Commission? Whilst indeed these bodies have done good work, they have certainly not done enough, and not enough effective work to deal with the problems and the plight of women and children - poverty, HIV/Aids, domestic violence, rape and abuse.

So not only is this a response to failure of the Gender Commission, the Office on the Status of Women and the Human Rights Commission to effectively deal with those issues, but my question is: While working with the Progressive Women’s Movement to attempt to ensure its success, surely we have to, in this government and this Parliament, start having a good hard look at what is happening with the Gender Commission, the Office on the Status of Women and the Human Rights Commission to deal with issues relating to what the Progressive Women’s Movement is going to be trying to do?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Speaker, the decision to have a movement such as the Progressive Women’s Movement in South Africa was taken long ago, before 1994 – before there was a Gender Commission or an Office on the Status of Women. So, it’s not a response to the failure of those institutions, as suggested.

I would be the first one to admit that the performance of those institutions is below average. So, there is concern there. But these women see themselves as partners who must actually support the work of those institutions.

In addition to that, I do not think we ever envisaged that the Gender Commission, the Office on the Status of Women and these other gender machinery institutions by themselves were going to deal with these weighty issues. I would like to see the men dealing with these issues. I think that it is a cop-out for women to take all the responsibility for these many problems on themselves when men have in some ways been very big participants in creating the problems. One does not want to hold a grudge against them, but one wants to deploy men in finding solutions. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Deputy President. Before we proceed to the next question, I would like to welcome the Probus Women’s Club from False Bay who are with us here this afternoon. [Applause.] We don’t see you! [Applause.] Thank you.

    Industrial strategy to create enabling environment for SMMEs

1. Mr M Johnson (ANC) asked the Deputy President:

   What progress has been made in designing an industrial strategy for South Africa which will create an enabling environment for small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs? N1207E

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Madam Deputy Speaker, the answer to this question - on small, medium and micro enterprises, SMMEs, and the industrial strategy for South Africa is: The National Industrial Policy Framework, or NIPF, has been drafted and the latest version has been tabled and discussed at the mid-year Cabinet Lekgotla. All the principles proposed by the National Industrial Policy Framework were well received. The Cabinet extended intergovernmental consultation, which will be followed by a presentation of the document, once it has been finalised, to the Cabinet Committee on Investment and Employment that will convene tomorrow and thereafter it will be released for public comment.

The NIPF is based on 12 key strategic programmes and one of those is Small Enterprise Support. Therefore, the development of SMMEs is an important component of this strategy. The Integrated Small Enterprise Development Strategy spells out that the SMME support mechanism proposed by the NIPF in greater detail will align itself with the general work that is happening in that area. The areas that are focused on are the following: to substantially strengthen support for SMMEs’ access to finance; to create an enabling regulatory environment; to further expand market opportunities for specific categories of small enterprises; localisation of small business support through a grid of Seda-co-ordinated information and advice access points; to initiate a national entrepreneurship drive and expand education and training for small business, and to co-fund minimum business infrastructure facilities in local authority areas across the country.

Mr M JOHNSON: Deputy President, given the fact that we are still celebrating the month of the women in South Africa today, will you kindly inform the House about initiatives that specifically point in the direction of women, as the industrial development strategy would be expected to do? It could be that those ideas are found in those of the twelve sub-themes of the industrial development strategy that are not mentioned.

The second quick question also relates to the fact that government has committed to reduce unemployment by half by 2014. What concrete steps or plans are in place, seeking to aggressively engage poor communities in grabbing such business opportunities as presented by our democratic government?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon member, programmes that are specific to women’s empowerment that are in many ways driven by the Department of Trade and Industry, but supported by the other departments and are aligned to the industrial strategy, include the establishment of the Women’s Empowerment Fund, which is now under discussion at the Department of Trade and Industry, or DTI, and it’s being capitalised. Another programme is the Women’s Empowerment Strategy.

There was a two-day workshop at the beginning of this month to release this empowerment strategy for comment amongst women. And I am sure the Minister of Trade and Industry, at some point, will come back and report on the expansion of the work that is done by Technology for Women in Business. This Friday they will be releasing a new approach to this work of Technology for Women in Business, which takes into account the experience that has been gained in the last eight years of its existence and projecting what needs to be done going forward.

In the area of procurement, where women seem to be inching in and making some strides, we see more and more women positioning themselves as service providers to the public sector, to state-owned enterprises and also to the private sector. Therefore, the programmes of incubation, where women entrepreneurs are assisted to develop productive and manufacturing capability, are also supported.

There is also a programme to develop women’s co-ops driven by the IDT, which is part of the second economy within the context of Asgisa. As we speak, the train-the-trainers, who are involved in training the women who will be running these co-operatives throughout the country, have finished the first leg of training. The second leg of training will be starting before the end of this year. Note that the co-ops are not only for women, but in the main they are for women.

These trainers will then be sent back to the areas they come from so that they can play a meaningful role in capacity-building, and they will be monitored through the IDT on an ongoing level. And, of course, the Expanded Public Works Programme continues to be an important programme for addressing issues of poverty. The Department of Public Works doesn’t only look at infrastructure, it is also looking at early childhood education as a form of public works, as well as home-based care. Thank you.

Mr S N SWART: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Arising from your response, hon Deputy President, the ACDP believes that such an industrial strategy should include the usage of incentives for SMMEs, such as tax concessions or even cheaper lending rates through the Industrial Development Corporation. This strategy has worked successfully elsewhere, for example in South Korea, and is already applied to a limited degree by the IDC.

In addition to this, it has been argued by the Department of Trade and Industry that the most effective support for creating an enabling environment for SMMEs is the removal of regulatory obstacles. Are you in agreement with these views, hon Deputy President? And if so, when can we expect government to attend to these issues, particularly the enabling regulatory framework referred to in your answer? Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: It is work in progress. I don’t have the exact date at my fingertips. I will take it upon myself to provide this answer to the hon member. I have actually seen the latest document on this issue, because some of this work is also being done from the policy unit in the Presidency.

On the issue of access to finance, I agree with you again as far as that is concerned. In the Integrated Small Enterprise Strategy, there is a proposal to establish the Apex Fund to focus more on survivalist and micro- enterprises. There’s also a process of restructuring Khula from a wholesaler to a retailer, because you know some of the problems that we have had with the wholesaling activities of Khula.

In addition to these changes, the DTI is also undertaking an industrial finance review that will ensure that we don’t only revise those funding products that come from the development and financing institutions of government, but also all of the incentives that we have and that the DTI and other departments are responsible for.

Dr P J RABIE: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy President, Mr Swart referred to the regulatory environment and so forth. But one of the main obstacles to the progress of small business in this country is especially the very rigid labour regulations and laws, and so forth. Do you foresee any changes in the proposed new industrial policy of yours, which will enable small to medium businessmen to employ people under less stringent requirements? Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: That is already in place to some extent. In the proposals that have been made in the changing regulatory environment, probably the bulk of the work is around relaxing the regulatory environment for SMMEs. However, we are also careful that while we do that, we do not create a dispensation where people who work in the small business environment will have their rights as workers adversely compromised. It’s a very delicate balancing act that we have to achieve.

Mr T E VEZI: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy President, I think you will concede that whatever strategy is designed, Asgisa will indeed remain pie in the sky unless there is a serious focus and emphasis on investment in human capital. These are the stories that have been told to us by all countries that have accelerated economic development, that the biggest investment is indeed in human capital. I will not take you by surprise and ask for facts and figures at this stage, but you are at liberty to consult with your colleagues and, probably next time, come up with facts and figures.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I agree, hon member. [Laughter.]

   State funding to pay legal fees to former Deputy President Zuma

1. Mrs S M Camerer (DA) asked the Deputy President:

   Whether, with reference to the President’s reply to Question 1630 on 7 February 2006, the matter of state funding to pay legal fees to former Deputy President Zuma has been finalised; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? N1198E

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: The answer to this question is that the matter is currently being negotiated between the office of the State Attorney and the legal representatives of the former Deputy President Zuma.

Mrs S M CAMERER: Madam Deputy Speaker, arising out of the Deputy President’s reply, it would surely induce a sense of shock in the nation if the government pays to defend someone who carried out their job in a corrupt manner. After all, former Deputy President Zuma has been prosecuted in his personal capacity, and it could hopefully never be argued that his alleged criminal conduct was undertaken in furtherance of business of the state.

So, could the Deputy President firstly tell us why the Presidency does not view this as a clear case of saying no? And when this matter will be finalised? If the Presidency agrees to pay the legal fees, could the Deputy President reassure us that this will not be an open-ended commitment, and that there would be a requirement that Zuma repays the money should he be found guilty? Thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Hon member, as I said, I am not a learned friend, as you know. This issue is being handled by our State Attorney and the legal representatives of former Deputy President Zuma. I think there are appropriate people, most likely the Minister of Justice, who will advise us. We wouldn’t take this issue very lightly and not go through due process, and that is why we have sought legal advice.

Rev K R J MESHOE: Thank you, hon Deputy President. While I understand that a decision has not yet been made, I would want to know if there is a government policy regarding matters such as this. If a decision is taken to give him legal aid, is there any precedent that would have been consulted or that would have guided the government to come to such a decision? Is there a policy in place or not? Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: That is a completely new question, Deputy President, and I wouldn’t like you to answer that. That question will come onto the Question Paper when the Deputy President is answering next time. You will then have an opportunity to get a reply to that.

  Quality of African Peer Review process, and lessons drawn from it

1. Mr V G Smith (ANC) asked the Deputy President:

   In light of the African Peer Review process undertaken in the country since 28 September 2005, what was the quality of the process and the key lessons drawn from it? N1208E

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Thank you, hon member. The African Peer Review Mechanism, or APRM, process is designed to assist participating countries to develop and promote the adoption of laws, policies and practices that lead to political stability, high rates of economic growth, sustainable development and continental economic integration.

In this regard, our country’s process thus far can be regarded as a resounding success, in that 12 years into democracy South Africans from all walks of life have seized the opportunity to engage in a meaningful dialogue about the progress to date and challenges ahead, free of any constraints, in an atmosphere of mutual respect.

The process has been inclusive and highly participatory. The South African approach to the APRM is regarded as unique. At the national level, a 29- person national governing council chaired by Minister Fraser-Moleketi drove the process. The first innovation in this regard was the establishment of the provincial governing councils in all nine provinces. This gave provinces a sense of ownership and ensured that the process reached all corners of South Africa.

The review mission led by Prof Adebayo Adedeji remarked that this was an important innovation since no other country participating in the APRM had done it before.

The second innovation that stimulated widespread participation was the use of economic development workers to engage and solicit feedback from communities across South Africa on the APRM process and questionnaire.

The third innovative approach was the use of a team of gender, disability and children’s rights experts, who were brought together for two days, to engage with the technical report and the draft country self-assessment report.

Parliament itself participated actively in the process, demonstrated by its process and submission, which incorporated public hearings convened by Parliament.

All provinces and sectors made their submissions and there was a satisfactory number of submissions from research institutions, individual businesses and a few individuals. According to Prof Adedeji, this is the widest coverage so far in APRM history. It builds on our culture of consultation and engagement, fostered by our practice and participatory democracy as instituted by our democratic government, which finds expression in our initiatives such as active participation in parliamentary processes, community consultation and izimbizo, amongst others.

The country’s assessment report notes the legacy of apartheid and the immense material deprivation for the vast majority of South Africans. The legacy also includes racialised and feminised poverty, racial segregation, a hugely unequal division of land, wealth and income based on race, and legalised, institutionalised and systematic racial and gender discrimination in all walks of life.

Improving access to rights and using them properly is a major area of agreement that needs to be taken forward in practical ways so that justice is really taken to the people.

Major concern was expressed about the monitoring and evaluation of services and resources to help improve service delivery rather than just providing information on what services are delivered and reporting on how much has been utilised. The importance of the Constitution in the lives of all South Africans was also noted.

The peer review process is just that - a process. We must ensure, both here in Parliament and in broader society, that we keep the debate and discussion going and work even harder to ensure the successful implementation of our programme of action. I thank you.

Mr V G SMITH: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Madam Deputy President, in your response you alluded to the approach of the APRM, amongst others, being to build and popularise a broad sense of ownership for the people’s contract to create work and fight poverty, as well as ownership of government’s national development policies. You have also alluded to the widespread participation of South Africans in the assessment. The question that I would like to pose, Madam, is: What concrete proposals and/or strategies does government and civil society have in place to ensure that these findings are incorporated in future policy choices?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: Actually, quite a number of submissions that were received as reflected in the APRM reports are in line with the government policy. I think it was also very helpful that Parliament also participated because you as legislators were also in a position to have first-hand experience of the kinds of things that people would like to see in legislation.

We would expect that the different departments, in the implementation of the programme of action, where policy regulation and legislation are required to strengthen such policy and regulation, be forthcoming. I would like to urge, obviously the members of Parliament in their own capacity as concerned citizens to also contribute in ensuring that where our legislation is lacking, and does not further facilitate effective implementation, they bring this to the attention of the executive. I thank you.

Mrs S V KALYAN: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Deputy President, the independent Public Service Accountability Monitor stated that there are substantial changes between the draft and the final APRM country self- assessment report and programme of action. They identified eight actionable recommendations reached by consensus during the review process, which were edited out of the final programme of action. Some of these were to increase the frequency and length of question time for the President, to enhance the accountability of Ministers and senior officials, to accelerate local service delivery and to institute a cooling-off period for government officials entering the private sector.

Some believe that the country’s self-assessment report was edited by officials within the hon Fraser-Moleketi’s department. Deputy President, the editing should have been done by the South African country review governing council, rather than by the Ministry for the Public Service and Administration. The sanitised version contains so few measurable objectives that it undermines the possibility of holding the current executive accountable for the performance. Deputy President, would you consider releasing transcripts of the APRM meetings to reveal whether and how the report was edited, and to lay the matter to rest?

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: All the documents are archived and will be available post the process. So, I don’t think there is anything to hide. The editorial team was actually constituted out of the council that was established, which did not just include government.

Ms S C VOS: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Hon Deputy President, while our country review does acknowledge that crime is seen as a major deterrent to investment, could you enlighten us to why reports indicate that in the draft programme of action it would appear that there is no single substantive recommendation on how government intends to holistically tackle the plague of generalised crime in South Africa? I know that there is a joint committee here, but I want to know the holistic plan.

Secondly, Professor Adedeji in his numerous meetings with those of us who have served on the co-ordinating committee here in Parliament and elsewhere highlighted one crime as a major issue raised by the citizens of this country. High up there was the issue of floor-crossing. It would also appear that with regard to the issue of floor-crossing there is no specific decision made with regard to the programme of action. I thank you.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: To the best of my knowledge, arising out of the APRM process, we are supposed to implement those things that are doable within two years. Not everything that was proposed was taken on board because we had to measure the fact that we need to do those things that are doable.

Also to the best of my knowledge, the programme of action has not been finally completed. Therefore, it would be inaccurate to be so insistent that everything that you are saying is actually a fact. I do have a slightly different understanding of the process. Maybe you should allow the process to finish and you will be able to comment from an informed position.

Mrs S V KALYAN: Deputy President, you said that the transcripts are available. Now, I would beg to differ with you as on 26 July the Public Service Accountability Monitor indicated that if the transcripts are not forthcoming, they would consider applying for this information under the Promotion of Access to Information Act. I would like your comment, please.

The DEPUTY PRESIDENT: I said that they will be archived and are going to be available probably six months post the process.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon Deputy President. That concludes questions to the Deputy President. Before we proceed, it has been brought to my attention that we have visitors from Kuruman, Kgalagadi – people living with disabilities. Please welcome them to the House. [Applause.] If you are able to wave a hand or draw our attention to you, please do so. They might have come and left. Maybe I took too long to welcome them. But they are still welcome in our restaurant and our Parliament, as they tour Parliament.

                              ECONOMICS

                              Cluster 3

MINISTERS:

Initiatives to promote participation of women and youth in petroleum
                              industry

1. Prof I J Mohamed (ANC) asked the Minister of Minerals and Energy:

   Whether her department has undertaken any initiatives to stimulate and promote the participation of women and youth in the petroleum industry; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? N1176E

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. The answer to the question is as follows. The Department of Minerals and Energy has funded women-led organisations such as Women in Oil and Energy South Africa, whose aim is to facilitate and promote business opportunities for South African women in the oil and energy sector.

We are also going to host a world petroleum conference in the near future at our head office in Pretoria, whose special focus will be to inform women and the youth of South Africa about opportunities available in the oil and gas sector.

The Department of Minerals and Energy, like all other government departments, has a gender unit which co-ordinates all the activities of women’s organisations that it has helped to establish. It is also the intention of the department to ensure that through interventions such as biofuels our youth and women can participate actively in the petroleum sector. The South African Supplier Development Agency, which was created jointly between the Department of Minerals and Energy and the oil industry, is facilitating participation by women and young entrepreneurs in the liquid fuel industry through identification of procurement opportunities.

We also launched a youth in energy and mining forum in June, whose objective is to encourage the youth to participate in economic programmes within the broader sector of the Department of Minerals and Energy. We are also working towards establishing a working relationship between the department and the Umsobomvu Fund. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

Prof I J MOHAMED: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. I’d like to put the following follow-up questions to the Minister. The liquid fuels charter stipulates various requirements. Firstly, in terms of procurement, to what extent do the BEE companies benefit, and in particular how many women and youth have benefited? Secondly, in terms of access and ownership of joint facilities, pipelines, depots and storage tanks, how have women and youth benefited and what is the progress and challenges? Thirdly, how many youths and women have been sent abroad for technical training to so-called advanced countries, as training takes place with petroleum-producing countries?

Some pipelines are close to community settlements. Have such communities been made aware of the dangers petroleum poses to women and the youth, as they are mostly at home?

Finally, many women have died in mining accidents. What is the position with regard to the petroleum industry? Thank you.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, you may choose to answer one follow-up, and write a response to the other four.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Actually, all five questions are very involved, Deputy Speaker, given that they would require me to supply statistics, which I was unable to bring to this House. I would request the hon member to accept that I shall offer the information that he needs in writing.

However, I think it is important for me to make the point that in terms of BEE delivery the charter for liquid fuels has not done well. It has only been able to deliver 2%, over five years, to black economic empowerment. It is a matter that is of concern to the department, and indeed if the House wants more information in this regard, we can supply it. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

Mr V C GORE: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Minister, thank you very much for your answers to these questions. They are very important for the youth and women. However, I’d like to bring to your attention another very important sector of our community that is often overlooked with regard to BEE and affirmative action, and that is the disabled community.

I must congratulate your department on being one of the first departments to include disability in terms of your sector-specific charters. I’d like to ask what specific measures you have undertaken to include people with disabilities in terms of these processes. Have they been dropped from the agenda, and if so, why? Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hon Minister, I want to say something before you respond. I think there is a tendency to move away from the initial question and ask brand-new ones. The question here is very clear. It concerns women and children. If the hon member really wants to put a question on disability, which we as this House respect, I’m sure he can do that, so that he will get an appropriate answer with all the questions that are related to the principal question. So, hon Minister, please take your seat.

Adv H C SCHMIDT: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. The DA wholeheartedly supports initiatives to promote the participation of women and the youth in the petroleum industry.

According to a briefing by the department to the portfolio committee last week, very little progress has been made in this regard, and I think you alluded to the fact that a dismal figure of approximately 2% in respect of the empowerment of women in this industry was reached by not only private companies, but also state enterprises. We would include PetroSA and PetroNet, and they in fact lag behind private enterprise in this regard. The cause hereof is clear. Limited investment in the industry, and the overproliferation of service stations have, inter alia, led to the dismal empowerment of women and the youth.

The question is this: What policy changes is this government contemplating to ensure the rationalisation of the environment to ensure investment that will in turn ensure proper empowerment of women and the youth in this industry? Thank you, Madam.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Madam Speaker, this is surely a very involved matter again. It would need thorough investigation before we can talk about policy change. What is important for us is to evaluate the status quo and have scientific evidence that would then inform any policy change that we’d be looking at. But, definitely, if what is happening at the moment is disadvantaging women, the youth or people with disabilities, indeed if we have to improve legislation to ensure that those groups, which are always our target groups, are not disadvantaged one way or the other, we will look at changing the law, if need be.

Mr A HARDING: Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. Madam Minister, I quite agree with you that this is a fairly complicated and intricate matter and field, especially liquid petroleum. I also agree with you that this is the one sector where BEE has not fully come into its own.

Coupled with that, there is now the added difficulty that companies such as BP and Shell have located the crude procurement function in London. All crude and upstream products are procured and centralised through London.

The question is: How will your department be able to interface and make certain policy directives, in order to effect the participation of women and children in the liquid petroleum sector? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: The examples that you have cited, hon member, directly affect the Department of Minerals and Energy. I think this is a government problem. It is not only the Department of Minerals and Energy that has companies listed elsewhere, offshore.

It has arisen in one of the sessions with black business that such things are happening. Again, it is a matter that we need to interrogate thoroughly and we need to look at a specific intervention for that particular problem.

 Programme for road repairs in preparation for 2010 Soccer World Cup

1. Rev K R J Meshoe (ACDP) asked the Minister of Transport:

   Whether his department has a set timeframe and programme for starting and completing the urgently needed road repairs in preparation for the 2010 Soccer World Cup event; if not, how will progress in this regard be measured without set target dates; if so, what are the timeframes in each province? N1180E

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Deputy Speaker, the answer to the question is: In terms of national roads, budget allocations of almost R8,8 billion have been made to the SA National Roads Agency, SANRAL, in the next three years to improve and maintain the non-toll road network portion of national roads.

As the hon member might know, SANRAL’s roads have more than doubled from 6 700km 15 000km in the past five years, largely because of the poorly maintained roads in the provinces that have been transferred to the national department. These funds will be used to effect different interventions, such as emergency maintenance and rehabilitation to stop accelerated road deterioration for very bad road sections, and periodic and routine maintenance for roads varying from good to fair condition. About R4,3 billion is anticipated for the 2009-10 financial year to address any outstanding maintenance and road improvements before 2010.

As the hon member is aware, we also deal with access roads. We are going to be rolling them out to all the provinces, taking into account the very impressive examples of Gundo Lashu and Zibambele road maintenance programmes in Limpopo and KwaZulu-Natal respectively.

In addition, about R3,8 billion has been allocated in order to improve road conditions and public transport prioritisation ahead of the 2010 Soccer World Cup. Key focus in this regard will be placed on public transport corridors. Furthermore, toll roads will also be improved, along with the development of new toll roads over the next five years at an estimated cost of over R16 billion.

The Department of Transport has also developed a 2010 transport action plan with timeframes that include projects that will not only provide support during the 2010 Soccer World Cup, but will also provide a lasting transport legacy. Thank you.

Rev K R J MESHOE: Hon Minister, thank you for your answer. The fact that there are less than four years before the 2010 Soccer World Cup should emphasise the urgency of starting with urgently needed road repairs. To ensure that necessary repairs are completed on time, there need to be timeframes, and I am very interested in that. Many people out there would want to know about these timeframes to ensure that progress can be measured.

What mechanism, besides the timeframes that we desperately want to know about, does government have in place to ensure that when 2010 comes South Africa will have roads and infrastructure that will be in an acceptable and satisfactory condition? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Madam Deputy Speaker, the hon member will be aware that as government we signed guarantees with Fifa to ensure that we organise a very successful Fifa World Cup in 2010. Furthermore, as the Minister of Transport, I also signed a guarantee to that effect. We already have a World Cup desk in the Department of Transport. We are working very closely with National Treasury. We also have the public transport infrastructure fund and we evaluate projects.

As I speak, more than R241 million worth of projects have been approved, and construction has already started. By 2010, we will have met all the commitments that we have made to Fifa. Furthermore, we are working very closely with all the provinces and the municipalities where these games are going to be played.

I want to emphasise one point, and that is that all of this we are not just doing for the 2010 Fifa World Cup; it is going to be a lasting legacy for the people of South Africa.

Mr S B FARROW: Thank you, Minister, for that report. I think it’s encouraging to know that there is going to be quite a lot of money being put into our national roads. But you did make mention of your public transport corridors, which are really getting the people from those transit depots into the stadia.

I would like to ask whether in fact any costing has been done in that regard for the particular host cities, whether these corridors have provision for dedicated bus, taxi, cycle and pedestrian lanes and whether you can give us any indication of what funds you have available for those types of projects?

The second thing that I would like to just refer to is whether your department is looking at any means of removing the constraints that presently exist in the development and growth of the tourist industry. We are getting a lot of people coming out here, and they would want to go and extend their stay other than watching the football that would be taking place at the time. Have you looked at this, in light of the Deputy President’s Asgisa document, which basically clearly defines a need for your department and the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism to talk about the particular issues that we are addressing currently, as you know, in the National Land Transport Transition Amendment Bill?

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Madam Deputy Speaker, we are also developing a public transport master plan for South Africa, which is going to improve the state of public transport in this country. Part of the plans that we have, as you have correctly pointed out, is to promote public transport by designing or prescribing dedicated public transport lanes as well as lanes that are going to be promoting motor vehicles that have high occupancy capacity.

We are also proposing congestion pricing and toll roads so that we can be able to “incentivise” those who use public transport and carry more than one person per vehicle. Many of these plans are going to be outlined very shortly, when we unveil our public transport plan for South Africa.

On the last question, you should have asked my colleague, the Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism. I do know that they’ve got a very comprehensive plan for tourism in South Africa. Our responsibility as Transport, as we indicated about a month ago, on 26 July when Cabinet approved the Airlift Strategy, is to support the tourism growth strategy for South Africa in line with Asgisa. In short, that is the response to your question.

Mr H B CUPIDO: Hon Minister, in the light of the Expanded Public Works Programme and the urgency of building roads and infrastructure, is the intention to replace manual labour with heavier machinery in order to fast- track the building of the roads?

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Madam Deputy Speaker, I know that should have been directed to the Minister of Public Works, but we support fully, in the Department of Transport, the Expanded Public Works Programme and in particular road construction projects.

As I have indicated, we have very good and impressive projects in Limpopo and KwaZulu-Natal, particularly with regard to roads. Roads form a type of infrastructure that lends itself very well to labour-intensive technologies, thereby enhancing job creation in construction projects.

We are working very closely with the Department of Public Works to ensure that we are going to roll out a massive public works programme concentrating on road construction.

So, to answer your question briefly, our preference is labour-intensive methods of construction, but, as we all know, there would be a combination of both labour-intensive methods and use of machinery. However, wherever it is technically possible, we encourage labour-based construction methods.

Nkk B THOMSON: Ngiyabonga, Somlomo. Mhlonishwa, bengicela ukulandelisa empendulweni yakho kumhlonishwa uMeshoe. Empeleni bese ngiphendulekile kodwa-ke ngisazoqhubeka ngisho lokhu ebengifuna ukukusho ukuze ukwazi ukusicacisela ezinye izinto ezingaselekelela kule Ndlu. Sifuna ukusho ukuthi siyaqaphela ukuthi umnyango wakho uphansi phezulu ekulungiseni imigwaqo eyonakele, nazi nezikhondlakhondla zo-Gautrain siyazibona kanye nokunye nje okuningi okuyizingqalazizinda okungaphansi kowakho umnyango.

Engiqonde ukukubuza-ke ukuthi ngabe umhlonishwa usesimweni sokuthi angasehlisela amaphaphu – kulabo abanamaphaphu angathi ayakhuphuka – ukuthi mhlawumbe emva kuka-2010 zonke lezi zingqalazizinda ziyoqhubeka zisebenze – aziyukufana nalokhu engingakubiza ngithi yizindlovu ezimhlophe? Sicela usiqinisekise ukuthi impela ziyoqhubeka zisebenze ngale kuka-2010 nokuthi amaphaphu awehle. Ngiyabonga.

UNGQONGQOSHE WEZOKUTHUTHA: Ayi, wagiya udadewethu ngesiZulu wangikhumbuza ekhaya KwaZulu. Yikho nami ngizophendula ngesiZulu [Uhleko.] Hhayi, dadawethu, ungethuki amaphaphu phansi. Le ngqalasizinda esizoyenza izokwenza ukuthi iNingizimu Afrika yonkana izigqaje ngesinqumo sokuthi senze ukuthi kube khona ibhola likanobhutshuzwayo elizodlalwa ngonyaka ka- 2010 lapha eNingizimu Afrika. Ngakho-ke ungethuki, dadewethu. Sizobe sikhona ngo-2010, zikhona izingqalazizinda futhi nasemumva kuka-2010 izizukulwane eziyoba khona eNingizimu Afrika ziyosho ukuthi uhulumeni ka- ANC uyena owenza inqubo enhle nengqalasizinda ezonzile eNingizimu Afrika. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Ms B THOMSON: Thank you, Speaker. Hon Minister, this is a follow-up question to your response to the hon Meshoe. In fact, I am satisfied with your response, but in any event I am still going to say what I want to say so that you can clarify certain things for us which can help us in this House. We want to say that we may all be aware that your department is busy maintaining the damaged roads, and you are also busy with huge projects like the Gautrain. And we understand that there are many other infrastructural maintenance projects in your department.

What I want to know from you, hon Minister, is whether you are in a position to allay our fears – especially those who are easily frightened – and tell us whether the zeal that we see in erecting structures will continue even after 2010. Can you assure us that all this infrastructure will not simply become white elephants thereafter? We request that you assure us that they will continue to operate after 2010 and that we must not panic. I thank you.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Your well-articulated isiZulu, hon member, reminds me of my home soil in Zululand. And it is for this very reason that I am going to respond in isiZulu. [Laughter.] With regard to your question, my sister, I can safely allay your fears and tell you not to panic. The infrastructure which we are currently working on will make South Africa proud about her decision to host the 2010 Fifa World Cup. Therefore do not panic, my sister, all is well. We will be there in 2010, and the infrastructure will be there too - even beyond 2010. I am sure that even the generations to come here in South Africa will testify that the ANC government made good policies and had a stable infrastructure in South Africa. [Applause.]]

 Establishment of youth-driven businesses with the assistance of the
                           Umsobomvu Fund

1. Mrs P de Lille (ID) asked the Minister of Labour:

   (1) How many youth-driven businesses have been created with the assistance of the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, UYF;

   (2) whether the UYF has set any target-frameworks regarding the number of youth-driven businesses it wants to see established within a certain timeframe; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? N925E

UMPHATHISWA WEZABASEBENZI: Sekela-Somlomo, mandibambe ngazibini kwilungu elihloniphekileyo u-De Lille. Umsobomvu ube nakho ukuncedisa ulutsha ekumiseleni amashishini angama-8 000 ngemali elungiselelwe oko, ukususela ngomnyaka wama-2003. Le ngxowa ke ithi ibolekise ngemali koosomashishini abalulutsha, izixa-mali ke zisuka kuma-R700 ukuya kuma R50 000, nakuma-R50 000 ukuya kuma kwizigidi ezihlanu zeerandi. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Deputy Speaker, let me express gratitude to the hon member De Lille. The Umsobomvu Youth Fund has assisted the youth with finance to establish 8 000 small businesses since 2003. This fund gives loans to young entrepreneurs with amounts ranging from R700 to R50 000 and from R50 000 to R5 million.]

The Umsobomvu Youth Fund has also assisted 10 751 youth businesses, of which 4 644 were newly established through its business development support programme wherein nonfinancial business support is provided, eg assistance with business plans, marketing plans and contracting plans to all youth SMMEs.

The Umsobomvu Youth Fund has developed a three-year business plan with proposed numbers of young people that they want to assist during the next three years, and including other things that they would like to be doing, depending on the recapitalisation of the fund.

In the report that the hon member will receive in due course we do indicate a number of areas such as business development support and enterprise finance programmes where the Umsobomvu Youth Fund articulates what their strategies are, the impact on those targets and the performance. For example, they state one of their targets as: “To deliver finance to SMMEs in an integrated manner.” Their target was that they would fund 1 000 SMMEs, but up to now their performance is exactly 100 SMMEs. Thank you. Mrs P DE LILLE: Thank you, hon Minister for the response. I’m particularly happy because quite a big percentage of the unemployed in our country is comprised of constitutes our young people. I want to know whether you’re happy with the progress that we’re making and whether there are any other resources, except the UYF, that government can use for this purpose? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Besides the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, we also have programmes that target young people in particular. Very soon, we will launch a project called the Social Development Project, which will fund different programmes in the nine provinces of the Republic. I hope to launch this some time in October in the Eastern Cape. At the moment I don’t know exactly where in the Eastern Cape, probably in Bantu Holomisa’s home village. I will be there in the Eastern Cape. It will be a R1,2 billion project that we will be launching. We are targeting mainly young people, women and people with disabilities in those areas. We have a number of projects.

In addition, there is a proposal of a national youth service, which we must all ensure works. You know that quite a number of young people are finding it very difficult to volunteer. Each time that South Africans volunteer, the first thing that they do is they want to know whether they would be given any money. We ourselves therefore need to establish the same mind-set that we used to have during our time, hon Patricia de Lille, of volunteering. I remember when you used to carry an AK-47 you were never paid by Apla. [Laughter.]

Mr M M SWATHE: Thank you, Minister. The Umsobomvu Youth Fund is not visible in the rural areas. That does not address the high youth unemployment and business support issues. What is the Minister and his department doing to reduce youth unemployment in the rural areas of this country? We’re now seeing most of the young people flocking from the rural areas to the cities, seeking employment and job opportunities. Thank you.

UMPHATHISWA WEZABASEBENZI: Somlomo, ngelinye ixesha kuye kwenzeke ukuba kuthi kanti iindlebe zelungu elibekekileyo zinomphula, kuba ndigqiba kuthi, xa be ndiphendula ilungu elihloniphekileyo uPatricia de Lille, ndineprojekthi endiza kuyiphehlelela phaya emaphandleni, ingakumbi kwiphondo leMpuma Koloni, eLimpopo, naKwaZulu Natala. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Speaker, sometimes it happens that an hon member’s ears are blocked by wax, because I have just said, when I responded to the hon member Patricia de Lille, that I am going to launch a project in the rural areas, especially in the Eastern Cape, Limpopo and KwaZulu-Natal.]

The hon member must also know this, because sometimes there’s an impression in the minds of the other hon members here that we were all born and bred in towns. They’re making a fundamental mistake.

Ndiliqathalala legoduka lakuQoboqobo eZingcuka, emzantsi. Andingekhe ke ndishiye abantwana baseZingcuka, bomgquba, beziimpula zikalujaca. Ngoko ke, Mhlekazi, mna andinguye omnye waba bantu bangawahoyanga amaphandle, kuba ndikhulele khona, umntwana womgquba, mhlawumbi ngcono kunawe, naxa ndingakwazi nje apho usuka khona. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[I am an ordinary rural individual who hails from Keiskammahoek, at Zingcuka in the south. I cannot abandon the indigenous children of Zingcuka and leave them destitute. Therefore, hon member, I am not one of those who neglect rural areas, because I grew up there, being a son of the soil, perhaps even better than you, although I do not know where you come from.]

Mr B Z ZULU: Minister, I am another isiZulu linguist.

Kade sikhona laphaya kwesakho koNgcobo naseGcuwa nakwezinye izindawo. Sabona usenkathazweni yokuthi abantu abancane abathandisisi kahle umsebenzi lona ongcolisa izandla, kodwa-ke … [We were there in your area in Ngcobo and Gcuwa and in other places. We realized that you are having a problem as the youth are not interested in construction jobs, and …] … they’re seriously looking for white-collar jobs.

Manje-ke sithi asibuze ukuthi uMsobomvu, njengoba kade uchaza nje, mhlonishwa, izinhlelo zawo zithini malungana nokukhuthaza intsha ukuba ibheke imisebenzi engcolisa izandla ngoba iyasheshisa ukuletha ipuleti lokudla etafuleni kunemisebenzi kathayi? (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Now, hon Minister, we wish to know the role of Umsobomvu in encouraging the youth to apply for jobs in the construction industry because this is where they can be easily employed, unlike in the industries that need a suit and a tie.]

UMPHATHISWA WEZABASEBENZI: Ndabezitha, yiyo le nto sisebenzisana neSebe lezeMfundo, ukuze siye phaya kwiikholeji, ngoba sinesigqibo sethu esithe sasityikitya phaya eDikeni, kwaSomgxada, ukwenzela ukuba ulutsha olu luqeqeshwe kwezi zakhono kanye zibangela ukuba izandla zabo zibe mdaka. Ibalulekile le nto uyithethayo, Ndabezitha, ngoba abantwana bethu, ngenxa yemfundo neenjongo zayo zangaphambili zazisenza ukuba sifake iigilasi zamehlo - njengezi zam - uthi wakugqiba ufake usiba emva kwendlebe, kuthiwe into kabani ifundile. [Kwahlekwa.]

Into ebalulekileyo ngoku asikuko kufaxa iigilasi zamehlo kwaye ingekuko nokufaka usiba emva kwendlebe, kodwa kukuba abantu bethu bangenelele kweli dabi lokubambelela kuqoqosho lweli lizwe ngokuthi bavume ukuba babemdaka. Yiyo ke nale nto ilizwe linqongotshelelwe ziinjineli, ezingekhoyo kweli loMzantsi Afrika. Kude kunqabe nabatywini bemibhobho aba, ngoba xa sithe savula amaziko amanzi phaya emaphandleni akubikho bantu bokulungisa loo maziko amanzi athe onakala.

Yiyo loo nto kubalulekileyo ukuba sisebenzisane neenkosi zethu ekuqinisekiseni ukuba ulutsha luyazi ukuba kuyangenwa ebuhlanti, umntu abunyathele ubulongo. Akutyiwa nyama yehagu eneqanda nje kuphela, kufuneka ihagu ixhelwe, ze ihlinzwe kuqala. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Ndabezitha, that is why we co-operate closely with the Department of Education so that we visit colleges because we have signed an agreement in Alice, at Somgxada, so that the youth can be trained in these vocational skills that make their hands dirty. What you are saying, Ndabezitha, is very important, because our children are like that, as a result of the previous aims of education that made us wear spectacles

• like the ones I am wearing - and then put a fountain pen behind our ears, and people would then say we were educated. [Laughter.]

What is important today is not to wear spectacles or to put a fountain pen behind your ears, but that people must be involved in the campaign for economic emancipation and let their hands get dirty. That is why there is a shortage of engineers in South Africa. We do not even have plumbers, and when we provide rural areas with running water, we always have no manpower to do the repair work when something goes wrong.

That is why it is important to work with traditional leaders in order to make sure that the youth know how to get into the kraal and walk on the cow dung. We do not just eat bacon and eggs; we have to slaughter and flay the pig first.]

 Steps to achieve objectives of National System of Innovation (NSI)

1. Mr S L Dithebe (ANC) asked the Minister of Science and Technology:

   Whether he will persuade Cabinet to adopt a much more rigorous approach to achieve all of the objectives of the National System of Innovation, NSI by revising the amount spent in respect of the Gross Domestic Product, GDP and R&D by 2008; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? N1106E

The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Thank you, Speaker. Yes, in part, hon member. The goal of 1% of GDP on R&D spending has always been considered an interim target. This spending comes from three main sources: the business sector, public expenditure, and international funding. The setting of a higher goal has merit in that we do not see the 1% as an end in itself, but as an indicator and benchmark of our national commitment to becoming a knowledge economy. To achieve a target of 1,6% by 2008 would require - if we base ourselves on the 2004-05 R&D survey - an extra R10 billion of annual expenditure from business, government and international sources. In our view, this level of new expenditure cannot be fully absorbed by 2008. We consider it more prudent to place such a target for 2010 or 2011.

The science and technology community has shown an excellent capacity to absorb the increases in public expenditure secured over the past few years. In addition, there are pressing and urgent needs to renew research equipment and to ensure that the size of post-graduate bursaries and early career grants to researchers is increased significantly. Should Treasury’s resources permit this, the 2008 figure could be increased to 1,15% of GDP, which by 2008 would require new and additional financing of roughly R2 billion for R&D from public sources.

Given the pressing needs to attract and retain young people in research careers, and the sustainable positive impact that active researchers and innovators could make on quality of life and economic growth, I am willing and prepared to take this matter to Cabinet should the current review of the outputs and contributions of research in our society support such a move - that is, there should be evidence. This will only become possible once I receive the results from a series of studies being conducted by the National Advisory Council on Innovation in October 2006.

Mr S L DITHEBE: Thank you, Speaker. Thank you, Minister, for your trenchant response. The 2008 gross domestic expenditure on R&D could rise, you said, from the current 0,87% to about 1,15% by 2008. I believe, however, that you won’t gainsay me when I say that more often than not there is a causal connection between increased investment in R&D and economic growth.

Now, flowing from that assumption, is there any evidence that business, which is the main driver of our R&D, is taking advantage of the tax incentives announced by the Minister of Finance in February this year? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Yes, as you rightly point out, hon member, the private sector or private business is the main investor in R&D in our country. We continue to engage with them to ensure that they continue to do so. We have engaged Treasury and the SA Revenue Service to negotiate rules and regulations that would be required for them to access the tax incentives that were announced by the Minister of Finance. We hope that those negotiations will be concluded before the end of this year, and will be published. Therefore, we will engage further with the business community to ensure that they don’t only bank those incentives, but that they do more R&D, ensuring therefore that our spending on R&D accelerates. Mr B M MKONGI: Madam Speaker, I have no follow-up on that question.

Ms A M DREYER: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The Minister has answered the question in a quantitative manner. I would like to ask the Minister to expand a little bit on matters of a more qualitative nature, and especially to comment on the following. In a PhD study registered at the University of Pretoria - which forms part of an international project bringing together scholars from across the whole world, called Globelics Academy, it is recognised that the South African system of innovation remains fragmented and that the country is becoming less competitive. It further identifies a need for a common framework to identify and manage systemic failures limiting competitiveness in the South African system of innovation.

I would like to ask the Minister what his response is to these challenges in terms of, firstly, strengthening co-ordination between different bodies involved in research; and, secondly, improving the quality of research outputs. Thank you.

The MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY: Thank you, hon Speaker. I don’t agree that the quality of research has deteriorated, but I do believe that we have quite a lot of work to do to improve the quantity of research in this country. We have excellent researchers who are doing excellent work.

However, I agree that there is a lot that needs to be done to improve that quantity and also to co-ordinate the excellent research that is being conducted in our different institutions - the science councils, the universities and the private sector.

There are co-ordinating structures that allow us to meet, on an ongoing basis, with the various players in this field so that we can effect this co- ordination I am talking about. We have asked the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, of which we are not a member, but in whose programmes especially in science and technology we participate - to benchmark our activities, our research quality and so forth. That team from the OECD is in our country as I speak and is doing all sorts of things to ensure that such a benchmarking exercise is completed before the end of this year.

So, hon member, by the end of this year or possibly early next year, we will know the extent to which our system is fragmented, and what we need to do in order to co-ordinate the various activities that take place in our country in the area of research and development.

Consultation with provincial and local governments prior to electricity distribution system being legislated

1. Ms N M Mdaka (UIF) asked the Minister of Minerals and Energy:

   Whether Gauteng’s local and provincial governments were engaged by the Government prior to the upcoming electricity distribution system being legislated, as required by the Constitution; if not, why not; if so, how was this constitutional requirement met? N753E

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I thank the hon member for the question. The answer to the question is, yes, both Gauteng’s local and provincial governments and the Department for Provincial and Local Government of Gauteng were consulted.

With regard to the second part of the question, a forum was established to ensure that all stakeholders participated so that we met the constitutional requirement. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Adv H C SCHMIDT: Madam Speaker, in addition to consultation with local and provincial governments, what is needed is that the department takes a realistic and incisive review of the generation, transmission and, in particular, distribution of electricity and leads the process by making informed and considered proposals. Currently, Cabinet, and presumably also the department, is in favour of the seventh national RED whilst Salga and Cosatu are against such a national RED. To worsen matters, many municipalities are against both the seventh national RED and the so-called wall-to-wall REDs due to a perceived or real threat to the revenue. The question is: Is government, in addition to consultations, seriously reviewing the way forward and determining the required interzone six wall- to-wall REDs or the seventh national RED?

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Madam Speaker, unfortunately I am not able to give the details that the hon member would have wanted to hear, save to say that the Department of Minerals and Energy was instructed by Cabinet to go and review the six wall-to-wall model that was at the time presented to look at the viability of a second model that would then include the national RED. What is going to happen is that we are now preparing a memorandum that we will take back to Cabinet so that Cabinet can debate on the two models and the viability of either of the two. Whether we will be going with the six wall-to-wall or six-plus-one will be decided by Cabinet. At this stage I cannot pronounce on that because I actually do not have an answer. Cabinet has to decide on that.

The SPEAKER: Is that a follow-up question, hon member? A second bite at the cherry!

Adv H C SCHMIDT: A second bite at the cherry, thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Minister, basically the follow-up question which follows from that is that there appear to be constitutional imperatives with regard to forcing or not forcing local governments to joining the six wall-to-wall REDs or the seventh national RED. How is the department envisaging crossing this bridge because it eventually will determine or hinge upon a possible amendment, or not, of the Constitution in this regard? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: I would be pre-empting the outcome of Cabinet in this matter, Madam Speaker, save to say we have looked at all of these things. The people who were given the responsibility looked at all of these implications. Again, Cabinet will have an opportunity to discuss and deliberate, and will take the best option looking at all of these implications – constitutional implications – and the fact that at this point municipalities do not have a right to take municipal utilities. All of those things with constitutional implications have been looked at.

Establishment of new board with regard to SA Estate Agents Advisory Board

1. Mr S J Njikelana (ANC) asked the Minister of Trade and Industry:

   (1) Whether a new board with regard to the SA Estate Agents Advisory Board has been established; if so, (a) when and (b) how will this board be empowered;

   (2) whether he has taken any remedial action to address the problem in respect of (a) the forensic audit that was recently conducted, (b) licence renewals for estate agents and (c) communication between the board and his department? N1171E

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Madam Speaker, the answer to the first part of the question is that an interim board was appointed on 9 February this year. Subsequently, a call for nominations for members to serve on the new board was published in several newspapers. The processes of reviewing and vetting the nominations has now been completed, and a Cabinet memo appointing the new board members will be submitted for Cabinet approval next week. The board will be governed by the Estate Agency Affairs Act, which clearly outlines the mandate and the role for the board.

As the previous board was dissolved for reasons of corporate governance weakness, the department will pay attention to empowering the new board on its corporate governance responsibilities through proper induction and, if necessary, training.

Following the forensic audit, the board was given an opportunity to respond to the findings of the report. After due consideration of their response, it was decided that it would be in the best interests of the industry for the board membership to be reconstituted. However, as required by the Public Finance Management Act, the Estate Agents Advisory Board, or EAAB, management reported those board members who were cited for financial wrongdoing to the Commercial Crime Unit of the SA Police Service.

Following the industrial action in October 2005 by some staff members, the board extended the estate agent licence renewal period to December 2005. To date, the board has registered some 69 100 individual estate agents and 15 715 companies.

The answer to part (2)(c) of the question is: The EAAB communicates regularly with the Department of Trade and Industry through its interim board of directors. The last meeting was held on 7 August. As the EAAB is also part of the Council of Trade and Industry Institutions, the department is also thereby able to be apprised of the affairs and concerns of the board.

The board also submits the stipulated statutory reports on a regular basis to the DTI. Thank you.

Mr S J NJIKELANA: Through you, Madam Speaker, I say thank you very much to the Deputy Minister. It helps at least to have an indication of the attempts made by the department to remedy the situation. As a follow-up question I would like to ask the Deputy Minister whether the department will do its best to ensure that this board, as a regulatory body, regulates this sector robustly, particularly in the interests of consumers - the working people in essence. Particular reference in this regard is made to first-time homebuyers.

I ask this question because this is an industry which has highly complex, expensive and time-consuming processes, particularly when it comes to bond transactions. It is riddled with the unscrupulous conduct of some estate agents, and we would definitely like to get a strong indication as to whether the department will be taking into account all those issues when it establishes the new board. Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Madam Speaker, the objective of the board is to register estate agents and also to promote good conduct among estate agents. Among other things, the 1998 amendment established a committee of inquiry. This committee of inquiry is allowed to impose a fine of up to R25 000 and to ensure that up to 80% of that money is then handed over to any consumers who have been disadvantaged in the process.

Yes, of course we want this board to be effective in promoting consumer rights and in ensuring prudential regulation of the estate agent industry. But in order for a board to play this prudential role, it was necessary to ensure that corporate governance within the institution was sorted out. I think that is what has happened in the last while. I think it is good news that we acted expeditiously in this regard and we hope that the steps that were taken will enable the board to carry out its function, which is an important one, as the hon member indicated. Thank you.

Mr L B LABUSCHAGNE: Thank you, Madam Chair. There were many problems among the officials, not so much the board, and the concern is: Why did the Minister force members of the board to resign under threat when the forensic audit implicated many of the officials concerned - the CEO and so forth - who were appointed by the Minister and the department?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Madam Speaker, no, the forensic audit also pointed to problems with the board. The way our corporate governance works is that, in the first instance, the board is responsible for control over officials.

As I indicated in the first answer, those members of the board who were alleged to be involved in criminal activities and so on have been reported to the Commercial Crime Unit. I am quite sure that that would extend to any officials who were similarly involved. So, I think that we are taking the steps, starting at the top. But we would look to the new board to sort out any problems that may exist among officials as well. Thank you.

           Announcement of comprehensive industrial policy

1. Dr P J Rabie (DA) asked the Minister of Trade and Industry: When will a comprehensive industrial policy, that will identify what industrial sectors and mechanisms the Government can use to alleviate the present high unemployment and skills shortage to ensure sustained future economic growth, be announced?N1190E

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Madam Chair, this question is substantially the same as the one which was put to and answered by the Deputy President a little earlier. My answer is essentially the same. A later version of the national industrial policy draft, which has also been discussed within this portfolio committee, was put at the Cabinet legotla in July. There was quite a large measure of agreement about the broad principles, but it was also agreed that further intergovernmental consultation was needed on a number of issues. Tomorrow we have the Cabinet Committee on Investment and Employment and the proposal will be put to hopefully finalise these intergovernmental consultations.

Upon conclusion of the consultations and the requisite endorsement by the Cabinet, the DTI will make available to Parliament and the general public the contents of the national industrial framework document. This will involve, among other things, issues of sector targeting, labour absorption, skills demand and growth. The principles and proposals in this regard are contained in the document. I thank you.

Dr P J RABIE: Thank you, Chairperson. The hon Deputy Minister referred to labour absorption in the proposed document which will be tabled to Parliament and the DTI. I would like to know the following. One of the impediments to labour absorption in this country is the racially biased quota which is imposed and required by government. Is the Minister in a position to disclose to the House whether the racially biased quotas will be retained or whether there will be a sunset clause?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Well, I think I wouldn’t even agree with the premise the hon member is using in his question. I don’t believe we have any such thing as racially biased quotas. We have the affirmative action policies. Those policies are not going to be reviewed. What we are looking at is to promote labour-absorbing sectors, and sectors where there are possibilities for rapid absorption of labour have already been identified in the Asgisa process. Some examples are business, outsourcing, tourism and biofuels, and that is the kind of exercise we will be engaged in in the National Industrial Policy Framework. I thank you.

Prof E S CHANG: Thanks, Chair and Deputy Minister. Last month at the Cabinet lekgotla His Excellency President Thabo Mbeki said that the Cabinet’s view was that more work must be done on a comprehensive industry policy that would identify critical industry sectors and give priority to the sectors with high growth potential and sectors that are labour- intensive. So, what are the priority sectors with high growth potential that government has identified and plans to target in order to create employment? And what mechanisms were used to identify the sectors with high growth potential? If we have anything that is in the policy, what is the department doing to lower the cost of such elements as transport and communication that are critical to the survival and success of the industry? I thank you.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Madam Chair, the question of identification of sectors and the criteria and the processes are some of the matters that are still the subject of further intergovernmental consultation. The Asgisa processes identified a few sectors that I have already mentioned. There is also ongoing work which has been done through cluster programmes in the department CSPs and work has also been done through the Growth and Development Summit.

We need to build on this work and improve the sector processes and then we can look at identifying particular sectors on the basis of criteria, which still have to be worked at through the process of intergovernmental consultation. I thank you.

Mr C M LOWE: Thank you very much indeed, Deputy Chairperson. I wonder if I could ask the Deputy Minister a question arising out of his reply to the hon Rabie about the question which semantically relates to affirmative action or racially biased labour policies. The fact of the matter is this, sir: We have a huge number of vacancies in this country for skilled jobs, whether it is 300 000 or 500 000 doesn’t much matter. There is a huge number of jobs we cannot fill.

At the same time we have a large number of people in this country with those skills who happen to be the wrong skin colour or don’t fit in with the affirmative action policies. I think the point we are trying to make with the question is to ask the Deputy Minister: Is there any thinking, with regard to those critical skills, along the lines of not actually sticking to the affirmative action policy that the government has put in place in order to fill the jobs, at least in the short-term, get the vacancies for skilled jobs filled and thereby train people who haven’t had access to jobs and skills in the past, through apartheid policies, so as to allow them to learn? But, that’s a critical question. Will you put aside these policies to allow for these people - largely white, but there are Indian and coloured people as well - who cannot get employment because they have the wrong skin colour? [Time expired.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: I don’t think I would accept the premise again, as has been set out, that the idea of promoting opportunities for people with disadvantages is causing skills shortages. I think it has much more to do with the fact that, under apartheid, people were trained because at that time the use of unskilled labour was drawn from black people. That was the way in which most of the industries operated.

I think that the question of skills acquisition has been sorted out, not through our industrial policy process per se, but through the Jipsa process which is being led by the Deputy President and which is looking at all the different sources of skills and I think it is looking for solutions which will draw all possible skills that we have into the productive process. I don’t think that there is anybody who has been excluded or that there is any a priori desire to exclude people, but I reject the idea that affirmative action is the cause of the skills problem in this country. I thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Any further supplementary?

Mr W P DOMAN: Thank you, Chair. May I ask the Deputy Minister if he is aware of a report by a local government department which states that transformation is one of the reasons for the shortage of skills in local government?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: I think you are trying to take me out of my departmental responsibility. In fact, I don’t know that report. If you have got it, I will have a look at it and we will talk about that outside. I thank you.

 Intention to import skills from abroad in light of skills shortages 132.  Mr C T Molefe (ANC) asked the Minister of Minerals and Energy:



   Whether it is the intention to import skills from abroad in light of
   continuous complaints about the scarcity of certain skills (details
   furnished) in the country; if not, what is the position in this
   regard; if so, what are the relevant details?
                                    N1174E

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Chairperson, the answer is yes, the Department of Minerals and Energy has considered importing skills from abroad. I think this must be understood in the context that there is a movement of skills globally. It doesn’t only happen in South Africa, it’s happening elsewhere in the world. There is a situation where skills move from Europe into America. So, this is what is also happening in our country.

This was done following the identification of critical and scarce skills by the Department of Labour and various Setas, together with other government departments, with a focus on those scarce and critical skills that are required for South Africa to meet the set goal of 6% growth in our economy. Our skills requirements are, amongst others, catered for in the national quotas as gazetted and published by the Department of Labour from time to time.

The skills challenges that we face in our sectors manifest especially in those areas of the economy that need technical and specialised skills, such as engineers in mining, chemical, electrical, mechanical and nuclear fields, artisans, etc. Beyond this initiative, at a departmental level, we have also developed skills development programmes that are in line with our needs so as to deliver on our mandate.

It should be mentioned, however, that the shortage of skills in the country will not be adequately addressed without the co-operation and partnership of our various sectors and industries. A good example is the recent approval by the Minister of Labour to allow Sasol to import in total 821 artisans to help resolve the immediate skills crisis, but insisting on the need to continuously upgrade those levels of skills of South Africans in this regard. Thank you, Chairperson.

Mr C T MOLEFE: Thank you, hon Comrade Minister, for the elaborative and informative response. However, noting that we cannot forever depend on imported skills, what about the medium and long-term intervention strategies regarding these scarce skills? What would be the role of higher learning institutions in assisting us to acquire these skills at home, because one is tempted to think about exchange programmes whilst we want to address this, and not take anything away from our Setas? What about a monitoring mechanism to ensure implementation of all these, if we are agreed? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: Surely, the government is doing a lot in terms of mobilising and developing skills within South Africa but also looking at South Africans who could be skilled to do certain things or to be deployed in areas within our economy. So, there are lots of programmes that we have in that regard, but in the context of the national framework for human resources development. Of course, the Department of Education and the Department of Labour are quite key in this area of skills development.

We also have the Deputy President’s Joint Initiative for Priority Skills Acquisition, or Jipsa programme, which again focuses on skills development. We do begin at home because we are quite aware that charity begins at home. That is why there is also a programme for graduates who are unemployed and will be reskilled so that they can be able to be deployed because some of them are not at this point deployable. They are not what the economy requires at this point in time.

So, all of those programmes are there. But again, it takes a long time to produce skills like those of engineers and it may well be that, as we speak, we need engineers. We definitely do need engineers. So, taking about five or seven years to produce an engineer means that we’ll have to wait as a country; hence the need for us to look at importing some of these skills.

Mr G R MORGAN: Deputy Chair, it’s good to hear that importation is going to be considered here. However, long-term planning is critical and it’s something that this department hasn’t always done very well. We need to plan for the energy needs of our economy 15 years down the line – it will hopefully be a very hungry economy. The long-term sustainability of the energy sector requires more maths and science matriculates as well as the 3 000 apprenticeships for technicians and electrical engineers. Sasol alone needs about 2 000 welders at the moment.

Madam Minister, are you confident that the Department of Education and the Department of Labour are ready to produce matriculants as apprentices that are required in the energy sector considering that they are often poached by other sectors; and if not, what steps would you take to engage these Ministries and ensure that the short-term skills crisis does not become a long-term skills crisis?

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: That is very involved. Maybe the Minister of Education should respond to that. But, surely there is a great need in the country to direct children towards studying mathematics and science. At this point it is critical because then one would be able to take those children to programmes at a tertiary level to study towards these science-related careers. So, it is a problem that we have in the country but given the quality of education that we had in those days, you will agree with me that it’s one of the very complex challenges. As a result, I don’t envy the Minister of Education but I agree with you that it’s something very important that we need to apply our minds to.

As a department, we have a sector-specific strategy that looks at mobilisation and development of skills for the Department of Minerals and Energy. We have mentorship programmes and we have learnerships. All of those things are meant to help us mobilise and develop skills that the department requires. We have a strategy as a department as well.

But again, there is another challenge. While you develop these skills, you lose them. So, we need to look at retaining these skills as well. So, that strategy is very comprehensive. While we mobilise we must also look at the best way of retaining the skills within the country. Thank you, Chairperson.

Adv Z L MADASA: Thank you, Minister, for your answer. I took note, specifically, when you answered that you made the point that the intention is to fill the gap of the skills shortage by importing skills – abroad and not overseas. There is a tendency, as we have seen in some questions raised previously, to introduce a racist notion with regard to the shortage of skills. I don’t think it’s necessary to do that. The issue is that if there are shortages of skills in South Africa, then skilled people could be imported from abroad, not overseas.

I want to make the comment that it is a global phenomenon to have a shortage of skills. Even when education and labour are doing very well, we’ll never reach a point where there is a sufficiency of skills because people will always study what they want to study. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Madasa, your time has expired. There is no question, I understand. You have taken up all your time with the comment.

Adv Z L MADASA: Thank you very much. I’ve made the point.

Mr H J BEKKER: Madam Chair, I am grateful for the Minister pointing out the shortages and that we are going to import people, particularly her reference to the Sasol importation grouping as such. Those people, however, are mostly going to be welders, boilermakers and really people in the primary trade aspects of this country. This brings me to the shortage that is occurring right through.

I am grateful that she says internally we are going to put more emphasis on this because it is in the trade schools and with internal apprenticeships that we really need these people to be cultivated. I can just make the reference, for instance, that with regard to ordinary mechanics the average age at the moment is about 50 years and that brings us to the point that we’re losing these people. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Bekker, that has just brought you to the same point to which it brought the hon Madasa – to the end of your time.

Mr H J BEKKER: Yes. Can the hon Minister give us further information on the programmes that are intended?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): I’m now being unfair because if I allow that and I didn’t allow the hon Madasa I will be in trouble. So, what I’m going to do is to ask if the Minister would like to make a comment on both hon Madasa and hon Bekker. Thank you.

The MINISTER OF MINERALS AND ENERGY: I would humbly request the hon members to direct their questions to where they would really get adequate responses from either the Minister of Education or the Minister of Labour because I was really concentrating more on my sector and my sector’s specific strategy. I think it’s quite an interesting subject for all of us – maybe the hon Ministers wouldn’t object to coming back to the House and engaging further on this matter. Thank you very much.

      Developments with regard to location of aluminium smelter

1. Mr M Johnson (ANC) asked the Minister of Trade and Industry: (Interdepartmental transfer)

   What are the latest developments with regard to Government’s negotiations surrounding the location of an aluminium smelter at the Nqura industrial development zone? N1177E

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Madam Chair, government is busy with an intensive final negotiation in respect of an electricity supply agreement with Alcan Primary Aluminium of Canada. This agreement will form the basis for taking the proposed project forward. The potential shareholders of the project require a competitive long-term electricity supply tariff.

We believe that a final agreement with Alcan Primary Aluminium will be reached during 2006 to enable the project to commence. Thank you.

Mr L B LABUSCHAGNE: Thank you, Deputy Chair. Minister, the government has been battling for a long time to get Coega or Nqura industrial development zone in the Eastern Cape off the ground. Isn’t it time to revisit the policy concerning industrial development zones and convert Coega into an export-processing zone on a trial basis to attract meaningful domestic and foreign investments? The current policy is obviously struggling to do so. Export processing zones have proved successful in so many other areas. Why don’t we take a trial basis, particularly in an area with high unemployment?

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Well, I don’t think the answer to the question I was giving just now indicated any need for pessimism about the industrial development zones. What I am saying is that we are expecting negotiations to be concluded before the end of the year. We are optimistic about the outcome of those negotiations, and that would be a major boost to the Nqura industrial zone.

So, I don’t think we see a need at this point to move in the direction of export-processing zones. Export-processing zones, as far as I know around the world, have been places where they have basically entrenched sweated labour. They have operated for a short period of time successfully and very often they have been subject to the whims of international trade and economic flaws and a number of them have become less and less successful. We are focusing on real capacities. I think that the industrial zone programme is far from the kind of failure the hon member thinks it is.

Mr L B LABUSCHAGNE: Madam Chairperson, I really don’t agree with the Minister that they are necessarily sweatshops. The communist country of China has has had remarkably successful sweatshops. But also, Ireland and Mauritius and other countries have not produced sweatshops. Minister, with all due respect, you are optimistic and I hope you will be successful, but we have heard this optimism previously about Coega. So, I don’t think one should just dismiss it. Why are we just dismissing the concept of export- processing zones? We don’t have to indulge in sweatshops.

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Well I’ll be interested to engage the hon member further on what the difference between an industrial development zone and an export-processing zone is. In my understanding an export-processing zone is generally one in which you suspend all labour laws and labour rights. An industrial development zone, on the other hand, doesn’t do that, but what it does is that it creates rights in some areas and goods in others, infrastructure is created and all issues of that sort are addressed. As I said, I think that we have good reason to believe that this particular project – the Alcan project – will locate itself in Nqura and I don’t think there is any need for us to go into any fundamental review of the industrial development zone strategy at this point.

Steps to be taken in light of qualified audit opinion from Auditor-General

1. Mr M M Swathe (DA) asked the Minister of Transport:

   (1) Whether he will request the resignation of the (a) Director- General as the chief accounting officer and (b) members of his department’s audit committee if his department received a second qualified audit opinion from the Auditor-General following the one received in 2004-05; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;

   (2) whether he has taken any steps to address the problems outlined by the Auditor-General in the 2004-05 report; if not, why not; if so, what steps;

   (3) whether there have been any repercussions for any member of his department following the report of the Auditor-General for 2004- 05; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details? N1184E

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: The answer to the first part of the question, (a) and (b), is no. The director-general has just been evaluated with outstanding results, and I was not on the panel.

The 2004-05 qualified audit opinion of the Auditor-General arose from the circumstances of the contract for the production of credit card format driving licences, commonly referred to as the Prodiba contract, as recorded on pages 77-78 of the Department of Transport’s Annual Report for 2004-05. The department had received the Auditor-General’s report for 2005-06 on 3 August 2006. Discussion of the report between the department and the Auditor- General’s Office has not been concluded. The report has not yet been tabled, is not yet a public document and its contents therefore remain confidential at the present time.

Under these circumstances, it is premature to speculate either on the contents of the report or what further action might be required in terms of the Auditor-General’s findings. Nevertheless, it should be pointed out that the current director-general, Ms Mpumi Mpofu, began her tenure in the Department of Transport on 15 April 2005, long after the events that caused the original qualification, and after the close of the 2004-05 financial year.

Secondly, the department had attempted to address the issues around the Prodiba contract even before the Auditor-General’s report for 2004-05. The State Tender Board in turn endorsed the unauthorised extension of the contract on 9 October 2003, after the late Professor Medard Rwelamira, who was acting director-general in 2002, sought legal opinion and consulted the State Tender Board on how to regularise this matter. Ms Wrenelle Stander, who was the director- general at that time, requested the Auditor-General’s Office to conduct a special investigation into the contract, mainly to ensure that all funds had been collected from the driving licence testing centres, and that payments to the contractor had been in accordance with the contract. The Auditor-General’s Office was unable to comply with the request as it was made when the Auditor-General’s Office was finalising the 2005 report, hence the qualification referred to.

Since then, and to address the issue of qualification arising from the Prodiba contract, the Department of Transport has gone out on tender for the financial records and statements for the whole period of the contract to be collated and assessed accordingly. The Department of Transport, National Treasury and the Office of the Auditor-General are working on the matter as I speak.

Thirdly, the Department of Transport convened a disciplinary hearing for the official concerned in 2003. The committee determined that he be dismissed from employment in the department. However, he resigned from the department on 21 January 2004 before his dismissal could be effected. Thank you.

Mr M M SWATHE: Thank you, Deputy Chairperson and thank you, hon Minister. Minister, have you considered the fact that incompetence and lack of accountability from some of the officials in your department disappointed and let the whole country’s economy and citizens down; if not, why not; and if so, when are you going to take the country seriously and fire the people who seriously transgressed the financial management Act, particularly in the light of the current investigations around the extension of the issuing of tenders for the credit card licence contract and of the criminal charges currently being pursued by the Scorpions into allegations of fraud and corruption surrounding former Minister Mac Maharaj and Schabir Shaik, who is the CEO of Prodiba? Thank you.

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: It looks like the hon member did not listen to what I was reporting to Parliament just now, namely that this matter happened long ago and that there was a disciplinary hearing which recommended the dismissal of the official concerned, who resigned before his dismissal. As I am speaking right now, officials of the Department of Transport, National Treasury and the Office of the Auditor-General are looking into this matter. At the conclusion of their investigation, a report will be tabled and appropriate action will be taken in relation to what must be done. There is not much I can say at this point in time until that report is finalised.

Mr J P CRONIN: Thank you, Minister. I agree with you that in his follow-up question Mr Swathe was clearly not listening to what you said in the first place which, if I understood you correctly, was that you are not passive observers in the process, that the department and the officials are seriously concerned about this matter and have been doing everything they can to address the matter and to ensure that any irregularities are brought to book if that is the case. However, what I am not clear about, Minister, is obviously the department was investigating one of its officials and had moved towards a position of forcing that official to be dismissed when the official left in any case. Are there no grounds for criminal pursuit of that individual so that, if indeed there is a criminal case, there is clarity on that matter?

The MINISTER OF TRANSPORT: Thank you very much, Chairperson. As I have indicated, when that investigation is complete and if there is any wrongdoing, the law will take its own course. As I said also, the department will look into this matter and will report to us as soon as it is concluded. But I have indicated on many occasions that the issues of fraud and corruption are totally unacceptable and if there is any problem with any of the officials in this matter, appropriate action will be taken; but before this forensic investigation is complete, we will await the outcome of it.

See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Thank you very much, hon Minister, the time allocated for questions has expired. Outstanding replies received will be printed in Hansard. We now come to Notices of Motion. Does any member wish to give notice of a motion?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I intend moving the following substantive motion:

That the House - 1) appoints an ad hoc committee to investigate – (a) whether the Minister of Public Enterprises, Hon Mr Alec Erwin deliberately misled Parliament and Members of Parliament on 17 August 2006 by stating the following in respect of the damage to the Koeberg unit in December:

      Of as much interest has been whether I said that this was an act
      of sabotage. I did not say this ... Why I deliberately did not
      say it was sabotage will be evident ...

This is an excerpt from a ``Statement to Parliament on the Damage to Koeberg Unit’’ in December 2005 by Minister Alec Erwin.

(b) whether the Statement to the National Assembly by the hon member was false in that on 28 February the Minister at a media briefing informed South Africa as follows:

      This was no accident. The investigations proceed well and  action
      will be taken of a legal nature and a criminal charge nature. Any
      interference   with   any   electricity   installation   is    an
      exceptionally serious crime. It is sabotage.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Hon Gibson, if I may ask: If this is a motion with notice, can you not give your motivation when the motion is dealt with in the House?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: I am not motivating; this is a motion that has been ruled out of order in the past on the basis that it hasn’t been given with sufficient particularity. I wouldn’t like anybody in the Chair to rule it out of order on those grounds.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms C-S Botha): Go ahead, hon member. I am not going to do that.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION:

    This statement was captured by the SABC on video footage flighted
    by e.TV on 28 February 2006 and on the evening of 17 August 2006;
    and was quoted in the print media on the following dates: Mail and
    Guardian, 10 March 2006; Business Day, 18 August 2006 and

(c) whether the Minister should be censured in a manner commensurate with the seriousness of such a transgression.

Mr G R MORGAN: Madam Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I will move:

That this House debates the poor performance of the Hon Manto Tshabalala- Msimang as Health Minister of South Africa.

Mrs D VAN DER WALT: Madam Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I will move:

That this House debates the outcomes of a recent survey of police officers in Gauteng that found that 75% of them felt that they were losing the battle against crime.

Dr S M VAN DYK: Chairperson, I hereby give notice on behalf of the DA that I will move:

That this House debates the commitment of the Heads of State of SADC to establish a common currency within the next decade and the impact it will have on the South African economy.

The House adjourned at 17:14. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS


                       FRIDAY, 18 AUGUST 2006

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Assembly

1. Sixty-Seventh Report of Standing Committee on Public Accounts: Public Entities, dated 24 May 2006:

The Standing Committee on Public Accounts having considered information
on national Public Entities accountable to Parliament in terms of the
PFMA, obtained during its review of:

(a)     the annual reports;

(b)     the public hearing; and

(c)     the General Report of the Auditor-General on Audit Outcomes for
    the 2004/05 financial year, report as follows:


 1. Remuneration issues
    SCOPA is concerned about the apparent  lack  of  uniform  norms  and
    standards relating to remuneration in general (salary  levels),  and
    specifically with respect to  all  bonus  payments  paid  by  Public
    Entities.  It appears that  Public  Entities  do  not  have  uniform
    guidelines in this regard.   In  addition,  it  is  not  clear  what
    latitude the Accounting Authorities (Boards, Councils, etc) have  in
    determining remuneration limits.

2.      Recommendation
In the light of the above concerns,  the  Committee  requests  that  the
Auditor-General  considers  a  systematic  approach  to   auditing   and
reporting on the nature and extent of the aforementioned issue.


The  Committee  also  requests  that  the   National   Treasury,   where
appropriate  and  in  consultation  with  the   Department   of   Public
Enterprises, review the  adequacy  of  all  guidelines  with  regard  to
remuneration issues,  as  well  as  the  application  of  required  best
practice models.


Finally, clarity is  needed  on  whether  the  best  practice  model  is
applied, as required  in  terms  of  the  King  2  Report  on  corporate
governance


Report to be considered.

1. Sixty-Eighth Report of Standing Committee on Public Accounts: Government Departments, dated 24 May 2006:

The Standing Committee on Public Accounts having considered information
on national Government Departments accountable to Parliament in terms of
the PFMA, obtained during its review of:

(a)     the annual reports;

(b)     the public hearing; and

(c)     the General Report of the Auditor-General on Audit Outcomes for
    the 2004/05 financial year, report as follows:

Filling of funded posts (Government Departments)
SCOPA is concerned about the inability of Government Departments to fill
personnel vacancies for which funds are available.   In  many  instances
positions remain vacant for the entire  financial  year,  despite  funds
having been voted for by  Parliament,  in  accordance  with  the  budget
submissions made by the various entities and approved by Treasury. SCOPA
is concern about the failure to fill the posts timely.

Recommendation
In the light of the above concerns,  the  Committee  requests  that  the
Auditor-General  considers  a  systematic  approach  to   auditing   and
reporting on the nature and extent  of  the  aforementioned  issue.  The
Committee  request  the  Auditor  General   to   consider   bringing   a
comprehensive report on  the  failure  of  filling  of  funded  post  by
Departments.


The  Committee  also  requests  that  the   National   Treasury,   where
appropriate and in consultation with the Department  of  Public  Service
and Administration, review the adequacy of all guidelines with regard to
remuneration issues,  as  well  as  the  application  of  required  best
practice models in order to review the policy on the filling  of  funded
posts and in this review takes cognizance of the timeframes required  in
filling the vacancies.


Report to be considered.

1. Sixty-Ninth Report of Standing Committee on Public Accounts: Unauthorized Expenditure: Government Communications and Information Systems, dated 24 May 2006:

The Standing Committee on Public Accounts (SCOPA) having heard and
considered evidence on the Report of the Auditor-General on financial
statements of Vote 29 – Government Communication and Information Systems
(GCIS) for the year ended 31 March 1997 herein proposed the following:


1.      Background and Findings

    The issue of unauthorized expenditure incurred by the Government
    Communication and Information Systems during the year ended 31 March
    1997 is long standing and the Committee is of the view that it needs
    to be resolved. The following is the background to the case:


     • In 1997, the department authorized a payment of R2 918 400
       million to the Quality Press (PTY) limited for the translation
       and printing of the first part of the Government’s mid-term
       report.


     • The payment was found by the Standing Committee on Public
       Accounts (SCOPA) to be an unauthorized expenditure in terms of
       section 33 (1)(d) of the Exchequer Act, 1975, which was in force
       at the time. The transaction was also found to be in
       contravention of the State Tender Board Act because the
       department failed to follow Tender Board procedures when the
       services were rendered.


     • Despite the Tender Board disapproval, the department went ahead
       with the invitation of Tenders and it subsequently invited three
       service providers and reportedly proceeded to accept a quotation
       from the Quality Press worth R2 918 400 million which was more
       than double the lowest quotation from the Government Printing
       Works.


     • After deliberating on the findings of the Auditor-General’s
       Report (RP176/1997) and other available evidence thereof, the
       Standing Committee on Public Accounts in its resolution
       recommended that the unauthorized expenditure not be authorized
       by Parliament.


     • Legal action, as required by the Exchequer Act of1975, was
       therefore taken against Mr. Kotane (as an Accounting Officer) in
       an effort to recover the money.


     • In March 2001, the High Court in Pretoria granted a default
       judgment against Mr. Kotane ordering him to repay an amount of
       R1 698 400 million, which is the difference between amount paid
       to Quality Press and the quotation from the Government Printing
       Works.


     • Mr. Kotane tried unsuccessfully to appeal against the judgment.


     • On the third report of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts
       dated 12 September 2001, the Committee made a recommendation
       that the balance of R1.220 000 million of the total unauthorized
       expenditure be authorized by Parliament as the Department
       obtained value despite the fact that the Tender Board procedures
       had not been followed.

2.      Legal opinion

     • After several investigations by the State Legal Team, the State
       Attorney declared in a letter dated 11 March 2004 that it became
       difficult, if not impossible, for them to execute the judgment
       because no property in the name of Mr. Kotane could be traced
       that can satisfy the judgment.


     • The State Attorney also stated that Mr. Kotane was not a
       director nor was he a shareholder of any company.


     • This means that Mr. Kotane did not and still does not have any
       realizable assets, which would enable the State’s Legal Team to
       recover the losses incurred as a result of Mr. Kotane’s
       disregard for Tender Board procedures. This therefore prompted
       the State Legal Team into concluding that it was unable to
       recover the debt owed by Mr. Kotane.


    After a request by SCOPA to Parliamentary legal advisors to consider
    the legality of withdrawing the first resolution by Parliament
    regarding the Kotane issue, the Parliamentary Legal team, concluded
    that SCOPA is free to amend, where necessary its previous
    resolution.


3.      Recommendations

     • In light of the evidence provided by the State Legal team,
       conclusions reached by the Parliamentary Legal advisors and
       unsuccessful efforts by the GCIS to recover monies from Mr.
       Kotane, SCOPA recommends that the amount of R1 698 400 million
       owed by Mr. Kotane be written off. This will include writing off
       the debt from the GCIS books.


     • The high Court Judgment against Mr. Kotane should, however,
       continue to apply until such time that the 30 year period
       lapses.


     • The writing off of this debt should also be done in terms of
       Treasury Regulation 11.4.1 which states that the Accounting
       Officer can only write-off debts owed to the State if he or she
       is satisfied that:


     • All reasonable steps have been taken to recover the debt and the
       debt is irrecoverable


     • Treasury regulation 11.4.3 also states that all debts written
       off should be disclosed in the annual financial statements,
       indicating the policy in terms of which the debt was written
       off.

    Parliament will then monitor and oversee strict implementation of
    Treasury Regulation 11.4.3 by the GCIS.

    Report to be considered.

1. Seventieth Report of Standing Committee on Public Accounts: Department of Agriculture Unauthorized Expenditure, dated 20 June 2006:

The Committee noted the unauthorized expenditure amounting to R136 000,
00 incurred during 1998/99 and R527 000, 00 incurred during 1999/00
financial years. The expenditure was incurred as follows:
 1. R136 000, 00 was incurred for the introduction of English course.
    Procurement prescripts were not followed; and

 2. R527 000, 00 incurred for organizing of workshops in provinces to
    plan a national irrigation. Provinces extended a number of
    workshops from 27 to 65 without consulting the department.
    Provinces claimed expenses from the department.

    There was no loss to the state and the responsible individual was
    reprimanded.


    Recommendation


    In light of the above, the Committee recommends that Parliament
    approves the amount of R663 000, 00 relating to 1998 to 2000
    financial years.


    Report to be considered.

1. Seventy-First Report of Standing Committee on Public Accounts: Department of Communication: dated 24 May 2006:

INTRODUCTION

The Standing Committee on Public Accounts, having considered the  Annual
Report and the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
of the Department of Communication for the year  ended  31  March  2005,
tabled in Parliament and referred to it, reports as follows:

1. AUDIT OPINION

   The Committee noted the unqualified audit opinion expressed by the Auditor-General, and trusts that future audit opinions will be equally unqualified.

   1. GENERAL MATTERS:

   The Committee further noted that there was lack of capacity and skills in the internal audit function and the asset register was not updated in terms of Section 38(1)(d) of the PFMA.

   The Committee is concerned as lack of capacity in the internal audit function is becoming problematic throughout the government departments and the departments seem not to be paying much attention to this.

   1. RECOMMENDATION

   The Committee recommends that the department report to Parliament within 60 days after the adoption of this report by Parliament on:

   a) How the issue of internal audit will be addressed as well as plans in place to build the capacity as required by Treasury Regulations; and b) steps taken to resolve the issue of asset register.

   1. CONCLUSION

   The Committee is of the view that, except for the aspects highlighted above; no further interaction with the Department of Communication would be necessary for the financial year under review. Report to be considered.

2. Seventy-Second Report of Standing Committee on Public Accounts: Engelburg House Art Collection, dated 22 March 2006:

1.      INTRODUCTION

The Standing Committee on Public Accounts, having considered the Annual
Report and the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
of the Engelburg House Art Collection for the year ended 31 March 2005,
tabled in Parliament and referred to it, reports as follows:

2.      AUDIT OPINION

The Committee noted the unqualified audit opinion expressed by the
Auditor-General, and trusts that future audit opinions will be equally
unqualified.

3.      CONCLUSION

The Committee is of the view that no further interaction with the
Accounting Authority of the Engelburg House Art Collection is necessary
for the financial year under review given the information so far. 7.    Seventy-Third Report of Standing Committee on Public Accounts:
Education Labour Relations Council, dated 22 March 2006:

1.      INTRODUCTION


The Standing Committee on Public Accounts, having considered the Annual
Report and the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements
of the Education Labour Relations Council for the year ended 31 March
2005, tabled in Parliament and referred to it, reports as follows:


2.      AUDIT OPINION


The Committee noted the unqualified audit opinion expressed by the
Auditor-General, and trusts that future audit opinions will be equally
unqualified.


3.      CONCLUSION


The Committee is of the view that no further interaction with the
Accounting Authority of the Education Labour Relations Council is
necessary for the financial year under review.

1. Seventy-Fourth Report of Standing Committee on Public Accounts: Department of Transport, dated 6 August 2006:

The Standing Committee on Public Accounts (SCOPA), having heard and
considered evidence in the Annual Report and the Report of the Auditor-
General on the financial statements of the Department of Transport
(DoT), reports as follows:

1.      Contract for the production of credit card format drivers
    licenses (par 3.1, page 93).
The Committee noted the following:


  • On 27 July 1992, Cabinet approved the manufacturing of driving
    license cards by the private sector on a bureau basis;
  • The DoT, in conjunction with the service provider in question,
    opened two operating bank accounts at separate commercial banks in
    the name of the service provider;
  • There was no proper recording of transactions that took place and no
    disclosure in the financial statements of the DoT;
  • The DoT did not institute proper internal controls to ensure that
    invoices of the service provider were properly checked and
    authorised; and
  • The contract was extended for a further five years without the
    proper authorisation of the then Director-General, the Minister of
    Transport, and National Treasury.


In the light of the above, the Committee recommends that the Accounting
Officer immediately:

a)      Ensures that all transactions relevant to the contract for the
    production of credit card format drivers licences should be
    disclosed in the accounts and financial statements of a government
    institution;
b)      Considers the conversion of the two bank accounts into a
    departmental trading account, or alternatively a trading account
    under the Road Traffic Management Corporation;
c)      All surpluses be surrendered to the National Revenue Fund unless
    Treasury approval to the contrary is obtained;
d)      The Committee be supplied with the cost benefit analysis in
    terms of value for money of this contract within 60 days after this
    report has been adopted by Parliament; and
e)      The Committee condemns the fact that the drivers licence
    contract was renewed for a further five years without proper
    authorisation, though aware that National Treasury had post facto
    approved it.

2.      Irregular, fruitless and wasteful expenditure

2.1     Fruitless and wasteful expenditure (par 5.2, page 94)

The Committee noted that interest amounting to R958 683 was paid to the
service provider as a result of late payments. This amount was recorded
as fruitless and wasteful expenditure in the financial statements.

SCOPA is concerned as the expenditure incurred is due to poor contract
management and insufficient budget used to pay the contractor against
the approved contract milestones.

The Committee recommends that the Accounting Authority ensures that:

 a) Contracts are approved only after the availability of funds is
    confirmed;
 b) Payments to service providers are made in terms of contractual
    agreements to avoid incuring fruitless expenditure; and
 c) A report on the strategy and plan of action is in place to address
    the weaknesses highlighted during the hearing and is comunicated to
    Parliament, within 60 days after this report is adopted by
    Parliament.

2.2     Irregular expenditure (par 5.2, page 94)

The Committee further noted that during the current year the DoT
incurred irregular expenditure amounting to R951 000 . The irregular
expenditure was incurred as a result of non-compliance with certain
procurement and other regulations.


The Committee expresses its profound disappointment at the failure to
follow proper procurement procedures.


The Committee recommends that the Accounting Officer ensures that:


 a) Contracts are managed effeciently and effectively to prevent cash
    flow problems;
 b) An adequate number of competent staff is assigned  contract
    management responsibility;
 c) Incidents of irregular expenditure are followed up regularly to
    obtain approval from National Treasury.  Where no approval is
    obtained, the necessary steps are taken to recover the amount in
    terms of Treasury Regulation 12.7; and
 d) Disciplinary steps are taken, in terms of the Public Finance
    Management Act, Section 38(1)(h).


3.      Incompleteness of income from drivers licence registration fees
    (page 22 of the briefing note)

The Auditor-General highlighted that it was not possible to determine
whether the three per cent of drivers licence registration fees due to
DoT in terms of the National Road Traffic Act, 1996  as well as any
outstanding fees from previous periods, had been received from all the
DLTCs.  The regulation was amended and it is no longer necessary for
DLCs to pay over the three per cent of drivers licence registration
fees.


The Committee recommends that outstanding amounts should be followed up
(recovered) and reasons for variances should be given.

4.      Internal control weaknesses (par 5.7, page 95)

The Committee noted that the Auditor-General has identified internal control weaknesses.


The Committee recommends that the Accounting Officer ensures that:

 a) Staff comply with the policies and must, in relation to claims
    submit them within the prescribed timeframes;
 b) Accounts are reconciled on a monthly basis and amounts are paid
    over to the Receiver of Revenue;
 c) Debtors reconcilliation is performed monthly, and follow-up
    procedures are strictly enforced. Senior officials should monitor
    the recovery of long outstanding debts;
 d) Debtors’ accounts with no movement are forwarded to the State
    Attorney for further action;
 e) The supply chain management framework is followed in all instances
    thereby ensuring compliance with Treasury Regulations; and
 f) A human resources plan is developed ;
 g) all vacancies are filled within a reasonable time; and
 h) Parliament is furnished with a progress report on all areas of
    weaknesses highlighted above within 60 days after this report is
    adopted by Parliament.

Report to be considered.

1. Seventy-Fifth Report of Standing Committee on Public Accounts: South African Rail Commuter Corporation, dated 6 August 2006:

The Standing Committee on Public  Accounts  (SCOPA),  having  heard  and
considered evidence in the Annual Report and the Report of the  Auditor-
General on the financial
statements of the South African Rail Commuter Corporation  (Corporation)
for the year ended 31 March  2005, reports as follows:

1. Fixed assets (page 21, par 3.1)

   The Committee noted the following matters of concern: • The Corporation had not estimated the recoverable amount of its assets and the extent of any impairment loss that should have been expressed in the income statement. All the information and explanations considered necessary to satisfy the valuation of assets could not be obtained;

   • Inconsistencies regarding the depreciation of rolling stock were identified by the Auditor-General;

   • General overhaul costs were capitalised against the cost of assets without de-recognition of the original component that was replaced.

   The Committee is concerned about the Corporation’s non-compliance with applicable accounting standards, especially seeing that there were visible indications of impairment losses on these assets.

   In the light of the above, the Committee recommends that the Accounting Officer immediately:

   a) Develops relevant policies to guide personnel with regard to the implementation of new accounting statements; and b) Inform Parliament of the corrective actions taken to address the above-mentioned issues within 60 days after this report has been adopted by Parliament

   1. Remuneration disclosure (page 22, par 5.2)

   The report of the Auditor-General highlighted the fact that the remuneration of the Chief Executive Officer, Chief Financial Officer and Senior Management had not been disclosed in the annual financial statements as required by Treasury Regulations.

   During the hearing the Corporation provided the Committee with the reasons for the non-disclosure. However, the Committee felt that the reasons were not acceptable as they gave rise to non-compliance with Treasury Regulations.

   The Committee recommends that the Accounting Authority ensures that the Corporation: a) Fully complies with laws and regulations. b) Should seek prior approval from National Treasury in every instance where the Corporation require approval to deviate from regulations. 3. Non-compliance with legislation and regulations (page 22 of the briefing document)

   The report highlighted various aspects of non-compliance with: • Treasury Regulations regarding investment policies; and • The South African Rail Commuter Corporation Financial Arrangement Act, 2000, regarding borrowing and issuing guarantees and security.

   The Committee noted this with disappointment as the transactions the Corporation entered into constituted irregular expenditure.

   The Committee recommends that the Accounting Authority urgently ensures that:

   a) The Board of the Corporation reports the nature and reasons for entering into these transactions to National Treasury and the Minister of Transport; b) Procedures must be in place to ensure that transactions mentioned in section  66 of the PFMA and SARCC Financial Arrangement Act are not entered into without complying with the requirements; c) The Corporation ensures that its investment policy is in line with Treasury Regulations and that it makes provision for proper risk management policies; d) All policies necessary are adopted and adhered to by all staff.

2. Weaknesses in the computer information technology environment (IT) –page 23

   The Committee noted that there were a number of significant weaknesses that still existed in the IT general control environment.

   The Committee recommends that a progress report be sent to Parliament, within 60 days after the tabling and acceptance of the Committee’s Report, on an action plan to adress weaknesses identified.

   Report to be considered.

                       MONDAY, 21 AUGUST 2006
   

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly The Speaker

1. Membership of Committees

1.      The following changes have been made to the membership of the
    following Portfolio Committee, viz:

    Correctional Services
    Appointed: Sayedali-Shah, Mr M R
    Discharged: Loe, Ms S J

1. Referral to Committees of papers tabled

1.      The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Safety and Security for consideration and report and to the
    Portfolio Committee on Foreign Affairs:

      a) International Convention for the Suppression of Acts of Nuclear
         Terrorism, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
         Constitution, 1996.


      b) Explanatory Memorandum to the International Convention for the
         Suppression of Acts of Nuclear Terrorism.


2.      The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Finance for consideration and report:

      a) Convention between the Republic of South Africa and the Kingdom
         of Spain for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the
         Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income
         and on Capital, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
         Constitution, 1996.

      b) Explanatory Memorandum to the Convention between the Republic
         of South Africa and the Kingdom of Spain for the Avoidance of
         Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with
         respect to Taxes on Income and on Capital.

      c) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South
         Africa and the Government of the United Republic of Tanzania
         for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of
         Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income, tabled in terms
         of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996.

      d) Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreement between the Government
         of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the
         United Republic of Tanzania for the Avoidance of Double
         Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to
         Taxes on Income.

3.      The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Justice and Constitutional Development for consideration:


      a) Interim Report of the Special Investigating Unit (SIU) for the
         period April 2005 to September 2005.

4.      The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Finance and the Portfolio Committee on Water Affairs and Forestry:

      a) Government Notice No 972 published in Government Gazette No
         29033 dated 21 July 2006: Minister of Finance, acting in terms
         of Section 66(3)(b) of the Public Finance Management Act, 1999
         (Act No 1 of 1999), approve that the accounting authority for
         Rand Water may commit to a shareholder’s loan of USD 245 000, a
         performance bond of USD 1 470 000 and provide bid security
         amounting to USD 122 500 for the Joint Venture with the Vitens
         International BV of the Netherlands pursuant to effect the
         management contract awarded by the Ghana Water Company, in
         terms of the Act. The above approval is granted subject to Rand
         Water not exceeding their debt limit provided in the Government
         Gazette Notice 23450 of 31 May 2002.
5.      The following paper is referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Finance and the Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local
    Government for consideration:


      a) Government Notice No 669 published in Government Gazette No
         29010 dated 21 July 2006: Notice setting out particulars of
         arrears demarcated by Municipality of Matjhabeng in terms of
         section 13quat in terms of the Income Tax Act, 1962 (Act No 58
         of 1962).

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson

 Special Report of the Joint Standing Committee on Intelligence (JCSI)
 on the Reports of the Inspector General of Intelligence

CREDA PLEASE SCAN DOCUMENT IN – T060821E-scan – PAGES 1791-1806

1. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development

 1) A report on the provisional suspension from office of Mr Matekere,
    an additional magistrate at the Magistrate Court, Johannesburg, in
    terms of section 13(3)(b) of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90
    of 1993).


 2) A report on the provisional suspension from office of Mr I X
    Masimini, an additional magistrate at the Magistrate Court,
    Queenstown, in terms of section 13(3)(b) of the Magistrates Act,
    1993 (Act No 90 of 1993).

                      WEDNESDAY, 23 AUGUST 2006

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Labour

 a) Report and Financial Statements of the Insurance Sector Education
    and Training Authority (Inseta) for 2005-2006, including the Report
    of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2005-2006
    [RP 77-2006].


 b) Report and Financial Statements of the Banking Sector Education and
    Training Authority (Bank-Seta) for 2005-2006, including the Report
    of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for 2005-2006
    [RP 67-2006].


 c) Report and Financial Statements of the Tourism, Hospitality and
    Sport Education and Training Authority (Theta) for 2005-2006,
    including the Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial
    Statements for 2005-2006 [RP 87-2006].

1. The Minister of Trade and Industry a) Government Notice No R853 published in Government Gazette No 27946 dated 2 September 2005: Standards Matters in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).

 b) Government Notice No R854 published in Government Gazette No 27947
    dated 2 September 2005: Withdrawal and replacement of the
    compulsory specification for motor vehicles of category N2/3, in
    terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).


 c) Government Notice No R855 published in Government Gazette No 27947
    dated 2 September 2005: Withdrawal and replacement of the
    compulsory specification for motor vehicles of category M2/3, in
    terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).


 d) Government Notice No R856 published in Government Gazette No 27947
    dated 2 September 2005: Withdrawal and replacement of the
    compulsory specification for motor vehicles of category M1, in
    terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).


 e) Government Notice No R857 published in Government Gazette No 27947
    dated 2 September 2005: Withdrawal and replacement of the
    compulsory specification for motor vehicles of category N1, in
    terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).


 f) Government Notice No R915 published in Government Gazette No 28039
    dated 23 September 2005: Incorporation of an external company as a
    company in the Republic of South Africa: Paddington Limited, in
    terms of the Companies Act, 1973 (Act No 61 of 1973).


 g) Government Notice No R916 published in Government Gazette No 28039
    dated 23 September 2005: Incorporation of an external company as a
    company in the Republic of South Africa: Kasvel Limited, in terms
    of the Companies Act, 1973 (Act No 61 of 1973).


 h) Government Notice No R.397 published in Government Gazette No 28767
    dated 28 April 2006: International Trade and Administration
    Commission of South Africa: Tariff investigations: Regulations, in
    terms of the International Trade Administration Act, 2002 (Act No
    71 of 2002).


 i) Proclamation No 22 published in Government Gazette No 28824 dated
    11 May 2006: Commencement of the National Credit Act, 2005 (Act No
    34 of 2005).


 j) Government Notice No R.489 published in Government Gazette No 28864
    dated 31 May 2006: Regulations made in terms of the National Credit
    Act, 2005 (Act No 34 of 2005).


 k) Government Notice No R.517 published in Government Gazette No 28894
    dated 1 June 2006: Establishments of Collecting Societies in the
    Music Industry, in terms of the Copyright Act, 1978 (Act No 98 of
    1978).


 l) Government Notice No R.477 published in Government Gazette No 28848
    dated 2 June 2006: Regulations: Payment of levy and the issue of
    sales permits with regard to compulsory specifications: Amendment,
    in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).


 m) Government Notice No R.478 published in Government Gazette No 28848
    dated 2 June 2006: Regulations: Payment of levy and the issue of
    sales permits with regard to compulsory specifications: Amendment,
    in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).


 n) Government Notice No R.479 published in Government Gazette No 28848
    dated 2 June 2006: Regulations: Payment of levy and the issue of
    sales permits with regard to compulsory specifications: Amendment,
    in terms of the Standards Act, 1993 (Act No 29 of 1993).


 o) Government Notice No R.599 published in Government Gazette No 28924
    dated 15 June 2006: Exemption from the provisions of sections
    143(2): WPP Group PLC, in terms of the Companies Act, 1973 (Act No
    61 of 1973).

 p) Government Notice No R.654 published in Government Gazette No 28976
    dated 7 July 2006: International Trade Administration Commission of
    South Africa, in terms of the International Trade Administration
    Act, 2002 (Act No 71 of 2002).

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Assembly

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Housing on the consideration of the 2003/04 South African Human Rights Commission (SAHRC) Report, dated 7 June 2006:

   The Portfolio Committee on Housing, having considered the 2003/04 South African Human Rights Commission Report Chapter on the right to Housing) referred to it, reports that it has concluded the deliberations and adopted the findings contained in the report.

   The Committee expressed appreciation on the work done so far by the SAHRC and the Department of Housing since the release of the report, and is looking forward to a briefing by the SAHRC on the new report.

2. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the United Republic of Tanzania for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income, dated 23 August 2006:

   The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the United Republic of Tanzania for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Agreement.

   Request to be considered.

3. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the Convention between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Kingdom of Spain for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income and on Capital, dated 23 August 2006:

   The Portfolio Committee on Finance, having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the Convention between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Kingdom of Spain for the Avoidance of Double Taxation and the Prevention of Fiscal Evasion with respect to Taxes on Income and on Capital, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said Convention.

Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Transport on the National Land Transport Transition Amendment Bill [B 38B -2005] (National Council of Provinces - sec 76), dated 23 August 2006:

   The Portfolio Committee on Transport, having considered the subject of the National Land Transport Transition Amendment Bill [B 38B - 2005] (National Council of Provinces - sec76), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 76 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 38C-2005].