WEDNESDAY, 15 NOVEMBER 2006

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                PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

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The House met at 15:05.

The Speaker took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL REPLY

THE PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC

   Significance of South Africa’s election to UN Security Council

1. Mr M P Sibande (ANC) asked the President of the Republic:

   (a) What is the significance of South Africa’s election to the United Nations Security Council for our country and Africa and (b) how will South Africa utilise its nonpermanent seat on the United Nations Security Council to advance the cause of Africa and the other poor countries of the world in the creation of a more equitable dispensation between developed and developing countries? N2151E

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, our election to assume a nonpermanent seat on the Security Council of the United Nations, by 186 of its 192 members, is significant in many respects. In the first instance it serves as an affirmation by the international community of nations that, despite the fact that South Africa is a new democracy, the world believes that we have the integrity and the capacity to contribute meaningfully to the work of this important forum.

Secondly, we assume this UN seat fully conscious that nations that serve on the Security Council have been mandated by the rest of the members of the United Nations to shoulder primarily the responsibility to preserve global peace and security. Members of the Security Council are consequently enjoined to execute that mandate for and on behalf of the remainder of the United Nations members, having regard at all times to the principles and purposes of the United Nations.

The UN Security Council seat will undoubtedly help us as Africans to advance the African agenda, which is predicated on the vision of the renaissance of our continent, given concrete and practical expression through the Constitutive Act of the African Union, as well as the development programme of the AU, namely the New Partnership for Africa’s Development, Nepad.

Among other things, both the Constitutive Act of the AU and the prescriptions contained in Nepad emphasise the central importance of peace and security in the regeneration of the continent. We as Africans recognise that we cannot achieve our main strategic objective of defeating poverty and underdevelopment as well as create a developed and prosperous Africa in conditions of war, conflict and instability. In this regard our work in the Security Council will give more impetus to the efforts of African countries, including South Africa, through the AU, in conflict resolution, peace-building, and post-conflict reconstruction and development. Indeed, the challenge of the Security Council seat should be seen as a continuation of the work we have done and continue to do to help our sister African countries to find peace and end international conflicts. This includes ensuring permanent peace and stability in the DRC, Burundi, Côte d’Ivoire, Sudan and others.

The Security Council is currently seized of a number of African issues, including those in Western Sahara, Liberia, Sierra Leone, Côte d’Ivoire, the Democratic Republic of Congo, Burundi, Sudan, Somalia, Ethiopia and Eritrea. This means that a large part of the work of the Security Council deals directly with our continent.

As I have indicated, South Africa will therefore use its two years on the Security Council towards contributing to the resolution of these conflicts and promoting post-conflict reconstruction and development.

Clearly, we see membership of the Security Council as a significant opportunity to augment the work done by our fellow African countries and many other partners that have served on the Security Council before us. In that sense we shall be building on past achievements.

But, Madam Speaker, as all of us are aware, the Security Council is called upon to act not only in the interests of the peoples of the African continent, but broadly to promote and protect the security and welfare of all the nations of the world. Accordingly, we will continue to do what we can to contribute to peace-building in other regions of the world, such as the Middle East, and in countries such as Haiti, and this includes issues of nonproliferation and terrorism.

In all these endeavours we will be informed by our own firm commitment to peace, security, democracy, equality, fairness and justice among and between all nations, big and small, and this of course raises the critical matter of accelerating the process of the reform of the United Nations, including the Security Council. Indeed, our participation in the Council will afford us the possibility, together with the other nonpermanent members in particular, relentlessly to pursue this important goal of the reform of the Security Council, thereby addressing the disparity in the distribution of power between the more powerful countries and the less powerful members of the United Nations.

At all times, in whatever we do, we shall do so in consultation and collaboration with the African Union, and since the birth of the AU we are focused on strengthening this continental body so that it can, among other things, improve its capacity in terms of conflict prevention and peace- building. It is therefore important that the result of the combined efforts and actions of the Security Council and the African Union Peace and Security Council are indeed the attainment of peace, security and stability in all our countries.

The Security Council, Madam Speaker, as you know, is continuously in session and can therefore meet at any time of the day or night to address a situation anywhere in the world that is seen to be a threat to international peace and security. This means that our country will need to have the systems and capacity to enable us to meet this challenge. We have made the point that membership of the Security Council is a national task to which we have to respond in unity.

Furthermore, we have also said that this will require that we build the necessary all-round capacity, both in Pretoria or Tshwane, and New York, so that we can meet our obligations as a member of the Security Council. I thank you very much, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]

Mr M P SIBANDE: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the President for his response. Also, I’d like to congratulate the President on his role in Africa and beyond that has resulted in South Africa being elected to the United Nations Security Council as a nonpermanent member. As a country we are proud.

Could the President elaborate on what the global balance of forces is, as we believe that the multilateral system of global governance remains the only hope for challenges facing humanity today.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Well, I would say to that, Madam Speaker, that I think there is general agreement that the arrangements at the United Nations, particularly as they relate to the Security Council, derive essentially from the situation as it was at the end of the Second World War, but that the world has changed and that we cannot continue with a multilateral system based on that particular outcome.

That’s why there is agreement that you need a fundamental restructuring of the Security Council and other organs of the United Nations so that they more equitably represent the situation in the world today, and increase the role of the developing world within these institutions. That is why Latin America, Asia and Africa should also – I think it is generally agreed – have permanent seats on the Security Council.

It’s a critical matter and it also affects other institutions, of course, in the global system, and those include the Bretton Woods institutions, the World Bank and the IMF, and that reform process must indeed take place, because, clearly, the balance of power in the world today doesn’t reflect the current situation and is clearly undemocratic, and therefore puts these major institutions such as the Security Council not in a position to respond effectively to the demands and needs of the developing world, which constitutes the overwhelming majority of humanity.

I think that is the central matter to ensure that we indeed promote that agenda, which will result in better representation of the developing countries and therefore better capacity by the developing countries to help to define the global agenda in a manner that does indeed address the needs and interests of the developing world. Thanks, Madam Speaker.

Mrs S M CAMERER: Mr President, the internationalisation of the Darfur crisis has not yet had any visible positive impact as conflict and disease- related deaths appear to be mounting unhindered. The ongoing humanitarian crisis has seen over 200 000 people die, 2,5 million people flee their homes and the brutal systemic rape of many thousands of women and children. Given that, to date, South Africa has no recognisable profile on the Darfur crisis, what steps will South Africa take now that it holds a nonpermanent seat on the UN Security Council to persuade the United Nations to act decisively with the international community to prevent this African tragedy turning into a Rwandan-style genocide, and, given that the Minister of Foreign Affairs told Parliament that another African tragedy, Zimbabwe, is currently not on the agenda of the UN Security Council, what steps will South Africa take to ensure that the ongoing crisis in Zimbabwe is solved or ameliorated? Thank you.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, we are not … I appreciate the hon Camerer’s impatience, but we are not yet on the Security Council. That will come in January. [Laughter.]

As the hon member knows, this issue of Darfur is indeed on the agenda of the Security Council. There’s a specific resolution that was approved, providing for the deployment of UN troops in Darfur to take over from the African mission that has been in Darfur for some time. As the hon member knows, the African Union had agreed to this because that would bring in the necessary resources which the African continent doesn’t have, to ensure that we have this beefed-up capacity to deal with this matter.

This issue is under discussion between the Sudanese government, the United Nations, the African Union and the European Union to resolve this question so that indeed this further deployment is effected. Everybody agrees. The Sudanese government agrees, the UN agrees, the African Union agrees, all countries agree that indeed there should be this additional deployment. The issue that’s arisen is the nature of that deployment.

I had a discussion with the president of Sudan, President Al- Bashir, about this particular matter about 10 days ago, and indeed he informed me that the government of Sudan was involved in discussions, particularly with the United States and the United Kingdom on this issue so that all the matters that are in dispute are resolved.

I would like to think that indeed this will be resolved and this bigger deployment will take place, hopefully as soon as is possible. Certainly, the mandate and the resources of the African Union would be exhausted within the next few weeks and therefore it’s important that the matter be resolved during that period.

As you know, we have soldiers and police units in Darfur. I do not know if that’s low profile, but I’d think that our people in Darfur are doing a lot of good work with regard to the maintenance of peace and security in that area to the extent that they can, given the limitations that the African Union has with regard to the provision of resources to beef up the numbers. But I’m quite certain that there will be progress with regard to this, given that everybody is agreed about this larger deployment, including the Sudanese government.

With regard to the question about Zimbabwe, I don’t know. The Security Council has never put this matter of Zimbabwe on its agenda, and the reason for that is that, essentially, the UN Security Council, according to the charter, has got to determine that a matter constitutes a threat to international peace and security, and that’s how a matter is put onto the agenda.

The Security Council has never made a determination that the issue of Zimbabwe constitutes a threat to international peace and security, and that’s why it’s never put it on this agenda. I don’t know if the Security Council would change its position on this matter in future. Thanks, Madam Speaker. [Applause.]

Rev K R J MESHOE: Thank you, Speaker. Hon President, I thank you for that exhaustive reply. You just said that all the forces and parties that have an interest in the resolution of the problem in Darfur have agreed that additional deployment is needed in that area.

Now, my question is, is the Sudanese government prepared to accept additional deployment, also from the UN, or are they only looking at additional deployment from the African Union, because to our understanding in the past few weeks they have been refusing to allow the UN forces to also come to help in that area. So, are they also in agreement that additional deployment is necessary, also looking at the UN, or are they only interested in the African Union? Thank you.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: No, Madam Speaker, the Sudanese government agrees that there should be UN deployment. Indeed, there is UN deployment in Darfur now. There are UN troops in Darfur, deployed in support of the African mission.

So the issue in dispute between the Sudanese government and the United Nations, and of course, therefore with the African Union to the extent that the African Union had agreed to the UN deployment to replace the African mission, is indeed the nature, not the presence of the UN, as there is a presence of UN troops now, but the impact that that has on the African character of the deployment. That is what’s being discussed, and that’s part of the reason why one of the proposals that’s being discussed by everybody now is a joint mission of the United Nations and the African Union.

So no, the Sudanese government is not opposed to the presence of UN troops in Darfur, but it is insisting that the African continent must continue to lead with regard to this matter.

Part of the problem, hon member, is contained in the resolution that was approved by the Security Council, which has raised very serious concerns on the part of the Sudanese government. This latest resolution of the Security Council, which took the decision to effect this deployment of UN troops, includes certain provisions which relate to the judiciary, the legal system, rule of law and all that, as well as policing.

The particular contentious points about that are that those particular sections, and some other sections of that resolution, refer, not to Darfur, but to Sudan as a whole. So that resolution, therefore says, for instance, in the section on policing, that the United Nations is going to go into, presumably, Darfur, but with the purpose of the transformation of the policing system throughout Sudan, so the Sudanese government is asking why that is.

There is UN deployment now, for instance, to help monitor and assist in the peace between the north and the south as a result of the conclusion of the Naivasha Agreement between the north and the south. There are UN troops there, attending to that matter, so this is one of the issues that are in contention, because it is not clear why the Security Council decided to extend its mandate beyond the borders of Darfur to the rest of Sudan. It was never discussed with the Sudanese government, the African Union or anybody.

But I’m saying this is one of the matters that are in contention, which has resulted in continuing debate about this deployment, because of lack of clarity as to what it is that the United Nations intends to do. In principle the Sudanese government is not opposed to this UN deployment, but does want the African Union to continue leading with regard to the resolution of the Darfur crisis, and that’s why I’m saying that, currently part of the discussion is about joint deployment both by the UN and the African mission, maintaining the African character of that presence in Darfur. Thanks, Madam Speaker.

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, hon President, with reference to the possible reconstruction of the United Nations, a body that has been in existence for more than 60 years, what proposals could South Africa make in respect of reconstruction to enable the United Nations to operate more effectively to prevent wars, like the ones in Iraq and in Africa; to prevent poverty and misery all over the world? What proposals could we make?

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: One of the proposals that we have made is that, with regard to the restructuring and reform of the Security Council, we believe one of the steps that could be taken would be to establish a specific mechanism to discuss that. There is none now. This should be some mechanism through which people could negotiate this restructuring of the Security Council.

As the situation stands now, there is a general discussion of this matter, without a particular institution and a process, which is targeting an outcome within a particular set period. That is part of what we are proposing. With regard to the other matters that relate to development, the fight against poverty and all that, what is critically important is that ways and means have to be found to implement the various decisions that the United Nations has taken. In reality, I think the United Nations has taken all of the major decisions that you need with regard to this, whether it is the Millennium Declaration or the outcomes of the Johannesburg World Summit on Sustainable Development, the other major conferences of this kind, the Beijing process with regard to women, the Conference Against Racism in Durban and all of that. I think there are all sorts of decisions that have been agreed to globally and that constitute the global agenda. We need the mechanisms and the institutions to make sure that that agenda is addressed properly, and to ensure that bodies like the World Bank and the IMF are locked into those processes. This is what is missing.

Indeed, as part of the restructuring of the United Nations as a whole, which includes addressing the powers and functions of the General Assembly and the powers and functions of the Economic and Social Council, we need to seek to find ways and means by which we can in fact implement what is an agreed agenda to eradicate poverty globally and to address matters of great disparities between the rich and the poor, between the North and the South.

I think it is a matter of focusing on that to ensure that you indeed have the institutions that would implement that agreed agenda. Thank you, Madam Speaker.

          Government’s measures to improve service delivery

1. Mr K K Khumalo (ANC) asked the President of the Republic:

   What measures will the government implement to improve service delivery to realise its stated objectives of providing a better life for all our people? N2152E

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, I do believe that our government, together with all other institutions of state has made enormous progress to better the lives of all the people of South Africa. In that process, we have sought to manage the economy efficiently to put it on a sustainable growth path, while we release resources to meet the basic needs of our people.

Increased spending levels have enabled us to provide social grants to over 11,5 million beneficiaries. We have built and upgraded more than 1 300 clinics; installed new equipment in more than 2 300 clinics; extended the childhood immunisation programme which now stands at 82% coverage; increased patients’ hospital and clinic visits to more than 100 million patient visits a year; attained steady progress in school enrolment, both in primary and secondary schools; built over 64 000 classrooms; registered over 200 000 young people for learnerships, and so on. That includes 2 million housing subsidies and houses built; 3,5 million houses connected to the electricity grid since 1994; 3,9 million poor households with free basic water, and 2,9 million with free basic electricity.

In order to roll back the backlog that’s emerged in the public infrastructure sector, public sector investment is planned to rise to the level of about 8% of the gross domestic product.

As indicated in the Medium-Term Budget Policy Statement, government and public enterprise investment expenditure for the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework period will, as you would know, hon Speaker, be R409 billion. Of this, R108 billion will be spent by Eskom and Transnet, and R63 billion will be spent on roads. Of this, R30,5 billion has been set aside over the next three years for integrated housing and human settlements. There is R5,6 billion for electrification of homes, and R6,8 billion for hospital revitalisation with R550 million to procure radiology and oncology equipment, and R24,7 billion would be allocated to municipalities to roll out basic municipal services.

The aggregate spending on schools and other education infrastructure over the MTEF period will be R10 billion. During the year 2007 the number of learners who will not be required to pay any school fees will be just over 5 million throughout the country. Protection service expenditure on courts, police stations, and prisons is expected to total R6,5 billion, and the water sector, which includes dams, pipelines, reticulation and treatment plants, will amount to R19 billion.

Despite the progress we have made, I am certain we all agree that there is still much to do to better the lives of our people, and one of the challenges is further and vigorously to improve service delivery to our people.

In this regard, there are numerous measures that government has put in place to improve service delivery and offer a real prospect of a better life for all our people. On a number of occasions we have alerted this House to those measures, and many of the critical measures have been directed towards the sphere of local government, because this is where most of the service delivery takes place.

In this regard, and as we have said in the past, the biggest challenge facing our municipalities is lack of capacity, which makes it difficult for many of them to provide services as they should, especially to poor communities. Accordingly, to address the problem of capacity and therefore better service delivery, special measures have been put in place, including targeted recruitments and secondments to ensure that our municipalities have available people with the requisite skills, such as engineers, building inspectors, architects, health workers, project managers, accountants and others.

Further, a municipal leadership development qualification has been developed for councillors and senior local government officials to improve their efficiency and effectiveness, and thus in turn to further improve service delivery.

In addition to the councillor induction programme directed at the more than 9 000 councillors who were elected in March 2006, we are also looking at the technical side of our local government’s functional status. This includes municipal performance management regulations that are key to the finalisation and issuing of a generic set of prescribed performance contracts.

We have also recently launched the local government anticorruption strategy, in an effort to promote a culture of good and ethical governance that is totally intolerant of corrupt and fraudulent behaviour in government. This, as we know, is very important to ensure that our people do in fact benefit from the resources deployed to make goods and services essential to a better life available, especially to the poor.

The Department of Provincial and Local Government and the Department of Public Service and Administration are also finalising the conceptualisation of a contribution to be made by Project Khaedu towards enhancing national and provincial government support for priority municipalities.

Let me stop there, Madam Speaker. This clock keeps going up and up.

Mr K K KHUMALO: Madam Speaker, I thank the President for an informative response.

Hon President, our Constitution provides for co-operative governance as a model for effective service delivery. The question is whether the government is considering additional institutional arrangements in order to strengthen this model of co-operative governance. Thank you.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: As I’ve just mentioned, we are in the process of launching Project Khaedu, which is intended to further reinforce and enhance support provided by national and provincial governments to the municipalities. Indeed, it has come about as a result of a survey that was conducted by the Department of Public Service and Administration to assess this particular question as to what the national and provincial governments are doing effectively to support local government.

In that regard, let me say that, as a reflection of that co-operation, I am very happy to report that 98% of all municipalities have revised their integrated development plans, benefiting from intergovernmental collaboration and support, the co-operative governance that the hon member has just talked about.

Indeed, it is through this process that we are beginning to forge a better alignment between the national spatial development perspective and provincial growth and development strategies, and the municipal IDPs.

The hon member also knows of course about the other initiatives we have launched, such as Project Consolidate whereby national government deploys experts to various municipalities identified through the Project Consolidate process.

The Development Bank of Southern Africa, the DBSA - again the hon member is aware of this – as a result of an intervention by national government, is handling Siyenza Manje, which has already recruited 144 experts and young graduates for deployment in priority municipalities.

We continue as national government, provincial government and local government to meet through the process of the Presidential Co-ordinating Council, and that is an important body through which we express this co- operative governance. Government, at all levels, is implementing the Intergovernmental Relations Framework Act to put in place the institutions required by that law to effect that system of co-operative governance. So, no, hon member, I do not believe that we need additional institutions, but I think what we need is to make sure that we do indeed implement the decisions that we’ve taken to reinforce that system of co-operative governance.

Mr S E OPPERMAN: Madam Speaker, I thank the President for giving us and emphasising inputs and outputs. I think the question this afternoon is whether we have a proper analysis of outcomes as prescribed by the Public Finance Management Act. There is a lot of activity; people are busy. The question is whether just being busy betters the lives of people.

We have, for example, under the Expanded Public Works Programme, hundreds of thousands of job opportunities. The problem is that the average duration of such a job is just over four months. Under these circumstances, proper transfer of skills cannot take place, and we know the Joint Initiative for Priority Skills Acquisition accentuates skills development as being essential for economic growth to better the lives of people. It is clear that we need serious intervention. I would appreciate your response. Thank you.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, I would agree with the hon member that we indeed should do the necessary work and analyse the outcomes. I agree fully with him that indeed we can all be very busy - and I am sure many of the hon members of this House are very busy - but I don’t know what outcomes they get as a result of that busyness. [Laughter.]

The hon member is correct. That is in part why I was quoting these statistics earlier, because you can measure outcomes. You can tell how many houses have got electricity, how many houses have got water, and so on. I think that if you look at that you can see that there is progress that has been made.

The hon member is correct with regard to the matter of skills, but I think it must be accepted that from the beginning, with regard to the Expanded Public Works Programme, we did say that some of the outcomes you would get from that would not only be temporary jobs, but also the possibility to train people while they are working, so that when they emerge from that programme they are people with some skills and who have the capacity to get jobs.

Indeed it is necessary to measure whether we are producing the results that were intended, and of course that also includes other interventions with regard to the skills area such as the outcome of the training programmes carried out by the Setas. I am sure the hon member knows that it has been done, and I would imagine that the Minister of Labour has, in the past, even given reports here about the performance of the various Setas, which is uneven, but we are able to discover that level of unevenness because we try and assess precisely the issue of the outcomes. The hon member is quite correct. The government departments are supposed to submit annual reports to Parliament, which would reflect on those outcomes. I do hope that the hon member would want to have a look at those so as to see whether those reports – at the end of the year – reflect the outcomes that would have been reflected in the budget, and so on, that the National Assembly would have provided.

It is an important question and perhaps we could all act together - the executive and the legislature – to ensure that we indeed insist that our system of government does not just focus on being busy, but indeed gets busy in order to produce specific results. Thank you.

Mr P F SMITH: Thank you, Speaker. Mr President, the IFP would agree with you that human capacity is a major constraint on service delivery. We would also agree that there are problems in respect to performance contracts. Mr President, if you look at the way performance contracts work countrywide, the problem is, of course, a national issue, as well as a provincial and local issue. It is not purely a local government problem.

In fact, there are too many instances countrywide of managers whose contracts are not very challenging, and too many cases of managers who are paid performance bonuses, when in fact they have failed to comply with the terms of the contract. We do agree with you that the whole issue of performance contracts needs to be revisited. The question I put to you, Sir, is firstly, are these regulations going to apply to all three spheres of government or simply local government? Secondly, when will they come into effect? Thank you.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Well, yes, the hon member is correct. As far as I know - and I can check this - there is indeed a system in place, I know certainly, in terms of national government. It is a system of assessing performance by senior management in national government, which includes assessing the directors-general.

For instance, last week I was looking at the assessment of the performance of the Director-General in the Presidency. I wouldn’t say what it was, but it is not bad. The assessment is not bad. [Laughter.] [Interjections.] No, no, it’s good. It is actually good. [Laughter.] It’s because he is in the House, you see. I think we shouldn’t praise him too much.

There is a system like that, but it may very well be that we continue to have a look at it, to make sure that it achieves the results that are necessary. Certainly, at the level of the national government, there should be a regular annual system of assessment, not only in the departments but also in the Public Service Commission as part of the process of assessing this performance. It has to be throughout all the spheres of government.

The hon member referred to senior managers who get bonuses for having done nothing and all that. I would be very glad to know who those managers are, because obviously he knows. No, it is not Reverend Chikane. Reverend Chikane is okay. I would be very glad to know who those are because, clearly, if there are people like that, it might help us to identify what is wrong with the assessment system if it permits people to come through and get approved, get the bonuses and get their A plusses and all that, when in fact they have not performed.

I am saying that I would be very pleased if the hon Smith could give me the names of those managers. Give it to Koos van der Merwe to bring to me. That would be very good indeed. [Laughter.]

Mr N T GODI: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The question that I want to ask, Comrade President, is around capacity, which I think you touched on in your initial response to the submitted question, in so far as municipalities are concerned. My take will be at a more generic and higher level. I think that in the Asgisa programme the challenge of strategic leadership in government departments has been identified.

I wanted to check what it is that government is doing or has done to meet that challenge, especially in the light of the high turnovers that we have in departments amongst very senior managers. There is a high level of vacancies, as well as the challenge of maladministration of these very same public resources that are supposed to be used for service delivery, whose timeous and qualitative delivery is obviously impacted upon by capacity within these departments.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, I am not quite sure about how to deal with this. Of course, it’s agreed that this capacity problem – as it was said earlier by the hon Smith – is not only confined to municipal government. That is correct. It affects national government too, including this matter that the hon member talks about, which is, in some instances, perhaps an unacceptably high turnover of senior civil servants. It does happen.

The reasons for this would vary from department to department, but it is true. In some instances it is a matter of people with professions having the capacity to get better salaries outside of government. There is very little you can do about it. There are some things, but very little that you can do fundamentally, because I do not know if ever government salaries would be able to compete with private sector salaries in particular areas. Certainly, that is one of the issues.

The hon member would be familiar with the work that the national government has been doing, led by the Department of Public Service and Administration, which is to look in detail at each of these national departments, and in particular to address this matter of vacancies. I am quite sure that the hon member will remember that we have spoken about this before.

It is specifically within these departments where we identify vacancies, what kinds of skills are needed, how many vacancies in number, and so on, in order to put in place programmes and processes that would help us to address these things. So, I would say, therefore, in general, that yes, there is continuous work that we are doing to make sure that the departments are properly staffed with a sufficient number of people with sufficient skills, to be able to discharge their responsibilities.

With regard to the matter of strategic leadership in government departments, I should imagine that all of them are led very strategically. I don’t know which department doesn’t have that strategic leadership. [Interjections.] It has, but Tony Leon says that Home Affairs doesn’t have a strategic leader. Maybe we might offer him the job of Minister of Home Affairs. [Laughter.] Thanks, Madam Speaker.

Terms of reference and status of investigation of Donen Commission iro Iraq’s Oil-for-Food Programme

1. The Leader of the Opposition (DA) asked the President of the Republic:

   (1) What is the current status of the Donen Commission’s investigation into the United Nations report on Iraq’s Oil-for- Food Programme;

   (2) whether the Commission’s terms of reference have been redrafted in accordance with the Pretoria High Court ruling on 9 May 2005; if not, why not; if so, (a) what are the new terms of reference and (b) when is the Commission scheduled to start its work;

   (3) whether, in the event that the Commission’s terms of reference have not been altered, he will consider revising them to include an investigation into the allegations surrounding the so-called oilgate scandal; if not, (a) why not and (b) how does the delay in establishing new terms of reference for the Donen Commission reflect on his commitment to fight corruption; if so, when will the new terms of reference be approved? N2147E

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, the term of the commission of inquiry into the Oil-for-Food Programme in Iraq expired on 30 September

1. The commission submitted its report on 6 November, earlier this month. Government is studying the report and will take appropriate decisions on it in due course.

The Pretoria High Court did not rule that the commission’s terms of reference should be redrafted. What happened is that government informed the court that it may consider other ways in which to make it possible for the commission to complete its work without giving rise to legal challenges. The court accepted this. The course of action proposed by government may have included the withdrawal of the commission’s regulations or the redrafting of the terms of reference. However, it was not necessary to consider this matter further since the term of the commission expired while a challenge to its mandate and powers was pending before the courts.

The commission of inquiry was set up to evaluate the report of the independent inquiry into the United Nations Oil-for-Food Programme and advise government on whether any conduct by South Africans referred to in the report amounts to a contravention of our law. Should an examination of the report reveal any breaches of the law, the matter would be taken up by our law enforcement agencies. The commission of inquiry was also asked to advise government on how best to implement such UN decisions in future.

We remain committed to ensuring that recommendations of the UN commission are addressed with the necessary urgency. The legal challenges to the mandate and powers of the commission resulted in unforeseen delays. Government will, after studying the report, decide on the most expeditious manner to give effect to the recommendations it makes. Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Mr President you, of course, are correct about the legal issue involved, but I would like to put it to you, Mr President, that there is some disquiet about the very narrowly drawn terms of reference for this commission and obviously we await the decision of your office when you have read the report thoroughly, which you received on 6 November.

In view of the fact that the ANC, or Mr Sandi Majali, using your name, I might say, in Iraq in December 2000, accompanied by very senior officials of the governing party, the ANC, were said in a chapter of the IIC report to have benefited from this particular transaction, namely oil for food, is it not a problem, Mr President, that the commission did not hold public hearings? It did not hear testimony from any witnesses under subpoena for the very reasons you explained, namely that it was legally impossible for them to be so subpoenaed because of the court situation and that key people identified in the report such as the Treasurer-General of the ANC, Mr Mendi Msimang, were simply not capable of being subpoenaed before it.

I put it to you, Mr President, that one of the reasons for this is that the terms of reference which were drafted by the Department of Justice contradicted the provisions of the Commissions Act, because the Commissions Act on the one hand allowed any witness the right to give evidence without incriminating himself, whereas in fact the terms of reference which were drawn up for this commission did not so provide. Surely that needs to be rectified and this matter needs to be considered afresh because of this shortcoming?

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, I am not sure that we are able now to discuss this matter any further.

You see, I have said that the commission has reported, we are studying the report and at the end of the study of the report, upon which we may indeed come to the same conclusions as the hon member, we will then take the necessary decisions.

I would imagine the most sensible thing to do in this circumstance is indeed to study the report, come to the necessary conclusions and act on that. I do not believe that any further discussion of this matter would take us anywhere. So that is what we will do. Thank you.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Sorry, Madam, may I ask another question?

The SPEAKER: Yes, hon member.

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Thank you, Mr President, for your assurance.

When do you think it is reasonably likely that the Presidency will release its findings of the commission?

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: I don’t know. [Laughter.] [Applause.] If I may ask, Madam Speaker, when does the hon member go on Christmas leave?

The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: On 10 December.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: I will release them while the hon member is on holiday. [Laughter.]

No, I can’t make that commitment in the event that we are unable to meet it, because there are lots of other things that we have got to be doing in addition to studying that report. There are many, many other things. I think it would be incorrect for me to make a commitment which comes off the top of my head, which we may very well not be able to meet. But I would like to wish the hon member a good rest as from 10 December. [Laughter.]

Reduction of levels of crime and strengthening of criminal justice system

1. Ms M M Sotyu (ANC) asked the President of the Republic:

   (1) Whether the current strategies implemented by the government across all sectors to address the occurrence of serious crimes are proving to be successful in providing safety and security for all citizens; if not, why not; if so, what are the relevant details;

   (2) whether the government plans to implement any measures to strengthen the criminal justice system; if not, why not; if so, what measures? N2153E

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, for many years now reducing the levels of crime in our country has been an important and central priority of government. We have been particularly concerned with crimes targeted at the person; hence our commitment to reduce these forms of crimes in particular between 7% and 10% per annum until 2014.

Over the past year, and consistent with trends we have observed during the preceding years, levels of contact crime have come down. We have observed a decrease in crimes such as common robbery, attempted murder, common assaults, robbery with aggravating circumstances, murder, rape and indecent assault.

We are confident that we have the resources, the strategies and the will to take the war to the criminals. In this regard, we commit ourselves to ensuring that we work continuously to improve our performance.

Police investigations are now more co-ordinated across police station, area and provincial boundaries. Expertise available within the police is being redeployed to the station level where it is acutely required.

We will increase the number of police officers to 193 000 by 2009. Most of the new members will be deployed in deterring crime rather than reacting to it, based on the age-old principle that prevention is better than cure. In the meantime we are training and improving the skills of our detectives.

Among other measures, another forensic science laboratory will be built in the Western Cape in order to augment the current capacity that is capable of processing 800 DNA samples per day. The current forensic laboratory capacity in the Eastern Cape will soon be upgraded to deal with the first phase of DNA analysis.

The capacity of the intelligence division of the SA Police Service is being increased considerably, in terms of numbers, focus, expertise and other enabling infrastructure.

We are encouraged by the co-operation of the private sector, particularly the banking and retail industries in dealing with organised and aggravated robberies. As a consequence of this partnership, between July and October, the police arrested 154 people who were behind the recent spate of violent and aggravated robberies. There is also good co-operation with the National Prosecuting Authority in this regard.

Similar interventions are being implemented in other departments that make up the criminal justice system. Retired prosecutors and magistrates have been appointed specifically to help us reduce the backlog of cases with regard to cases pending trial and pending finalisation.

We have started making it difficult for those who have committed serious and violent crimes to obtain bail. In this regard, the National Prosecuting Authority is closely co-operating with the police to ensure that people who are out on bail for other offences are not granted bail again anywhere else in the country.

This measure derives from the fact that, as a country, we have a serious problem of repeat offending. The intervention by the Department of Correctional Services that gives adequate attention to rehabilitation is therefore critical and, for it to succeed meaningful partnerships with families of offenders, communities, community-based organisations and civil society in general required.

In October 2005, to improve capacity in the justice system, no fewer than 75 posts for magistrates were created. During the 2006-07 financial year, more of these magistrates will be deployed, including regional magistrates.

We have isolated the areas that account for the most crime in our country. Further, the affected areas have had their socioeconomic profiles developed. It is clear that in this regard it is imperative that we co- ordinate with the provincial and local authorities to do more in these areas with a view to preventing crime from taking place.

As a country, we also need to understand and deal with the extraordinary levels of violence that accompany the commission of various crimes. In this regard, it is worth noting that most of these crimes, about 70%, occur among people who know one another. Knowledge of this reality is important in terms of both preventing and catching those who commit crime.

But at the same time we must say that, notwithstanding the positive statistics reflecting some reductions in the crime levels, as government we are obviously not satisfied and cannot be content while our citizens continue to experience violent and brutal attacks by criminals.

Let me stop there, Madam Speaker. This clock stops me. The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Good afternoon, Mr President. It is now the Deputy Speaker.

Ms M M SOTYU: Thank you very much, Deputy Speaker. Ndiyabulela [I thank you.], Comrade President. Mongameli [Mr President], from your response it is clear that the ANC government is seriously committed to breaking the cycle of violent crimes. Many of these crimes are committed against women and children, as you have correctly mentioned.

Could the President inform this House about specific programmes of government aimed at this phenomenon? Thank you.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Deputy Speaker, I am sure the hon member knows the answer to that question. [Laughter.] I am absolutely sure she does. But what I would like to say with regard to that is that we have the 60 Days of Activism Against …

An HON MEMBER: Sixteen days.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Yes, that is what I said. [Interjections.] Did I say 60?

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: It sounded like 60.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Well, I should have said the beginning of the process of 352 days of activism against violence against women and children. [Applause.] [Laughter.]

It is important, hon members. I do hope that the hon members of the National Assembly will indeed participate in that campaign. It is important that there should be that kind of visibility by people who are very well known in the country, such as the hon Tony Leon. If you see him there, you see him on TV and he is campaigning for this thing. You can imagine the millions that would join because he is such an important role model. [Applause.] [Laughter.]

It is important indeed that the hon members join this because we know that a lot of this kind of violence occurs behind closed doors. It occurs within our families and communities. The police have got to do what they have got to do; the courts have got to do what they have got to do; the prosecutors and all of that. But, there is a critical role that we have got to play to address these particular challenges; to let the idea of zero tolerance with regard to this kind of crime be something that imbues the communities so that indeed the sorts of interventions that are necessary are then made.

Therefore, I really want to say, hon member, in response to your question: Let’s indeed all of us participate in this particular programme of 16 Days of Activism Against Violence Against Women and Children. Mr B H HOLOMISA: Madam Deputy Speaker and hon President, when we consider the nature of crime in South Africa, the overwhelming feature that also causes the most distress for the general public is the exceptional violence that is committed in the commission of many crimes, seemingly by well- trained perpetrators from our country as well from our neighbours.

In order to respond to this type of violence, I submit that we require a certain type of police force. It therefore follows that at various strategic and command and management levels the people who lead the police force and make decisions must themselves be highly trained and experienced police specialists.

This scenario differs widely from the current one where some of the senior police decision-makers are civilians with little or no real police experience or expertise. I am not suggesting that civilian oversight should be scrapped. Indeed, perhaps some arrangement along the lines of the civilian oversight used for the Defence Force can be explored.

My question, Sir, is: Will government pursue such an approach for the police force where you have a civilian structure, but the commissioners and all strategic decision-makers are experienced and trained police specialists?

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Speaker, I would imagine that one would have to listen to this proposal by the hon member in better detail to hear what it contains, because I would imagine that, for instance, where you have a national commissioner of police you don’t expect him to lead a team of robbers who might be robbing a bank and be there in the front line with a gun, ordering the troops and so on. I wouldn’t imagine that you need that. That would not be the job of a national commissioner.

Therefore, with regard to the fact that the national commissioner is a civilian, I don’t know what impact it would have. What the hon member says about particular skills for particular kinds of situations that arise during the course of policing is probably correct. Whether you need military officers to be national commissioners, that I am not sure about. [Laughter.]

Maybe the hon member might want to put this thing down in writing. Let us have a look at it, because indeed the concern that he expressed is quite correct; the concern about the level of violence involved in the commission of many of these crimes and about the sense of impunity that one senses among the criminals that they do anything. They can shoot and kill a lot of police officers and for some reason they feel emboldened to do this and it may very well be that we look at the necessary preparation of the police in a manner that the hon member suggests. I do hope that he agrees to convey a more specific proposal so that indeed let’s have a look at it. Sivumelene. Ndiyabulela. [We agreed. Thank you.]

Mr A M MPONTSHANE: Deputy Speaker and hon President, there is a massive lack of policing resources in our rural areas. The absence of police stations in the community means that police are simply not visible enough, nor do they always attend to reports by the community of criminal activity or behaviour.

The question, Sir: Could the President consider a specific role for traditional councils in strengthening law and order in traditional areas? I thank you.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Deputy Speaker, the matter of the judicial functions and processes and this kind of issue that the hon member is raising with regard to the communal traditional areas is a matter that has been under discussion, certainly, between the provincial and local government and the Ministry of Justice.

I think it is possible within that context if there are additional issues that we believe need to be addressed. I hope the hon member is not proposing that we should establish rural kitskonstabels [special constables.] [Laughter.] But it is possible to be open in the national government to look at the proposal given the fact that we all accept that there are some judicial law enforcement roles and so on, that must be played by our traditional authorities. I would imagine that there would be no resistance to further discussing any other intervention to reinforce and address this matter - which is serious - of the level of policing in rural areas.

Ms D KOHLER-BARNARD: Madam Deputy Speaker and Mr President, the criminal justice system in South Africa is in danger of imploding under the weight of our horrific levels of crime due to a lack of capacity, huge backlogs, massive staff vacancies, forensic laboratory delays, corruption, overcrowding and gangsterism in our prisons.

The current systems are just not working and there is no doubt in our minds as the DA that we need to create a multiparty commission determined to drive the revival of our Police Service, our courts and our prisons as a means of ensuring the safety of South Africans across the length and breadth of the country; safety they do not currently enjoy - your good self and your Ministers excluded, of course.

President Mbeki, your opinion, please, of such a call.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Deputy Speaker, I am quite certain that there is absolutely nothing that stops the National Assembly or Parliament as a whole and the parties here getting together to look at the agenda that the hon member mentions. I would say please go ahead, hon member … [Laughter.] … with a multiparty discussion like that and all the matters that you mentioned. I would say it is fine and has my full endorsement.

However, I wouldn’t personally proceed from the position that we are facing a situation of a justice system that is imploding. It is not by any means imploding. But, indeed, let Parliament have a look at all these matters. The executive would appreciate very much any views from the legislature, which would help us to improve any and all of the elements within the criminal justice system. Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: That concludes questions to the President.

The PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC: Madam Deputy Speaker, I am terribly sorry. Could I say something before I leave this podium? I wanted to say that on behalf of the government we want to say thank you very much to Kasper Hahndiek, the Secretary in the National Assembly, who I understand will be retiring from active service in Parliament, having served here for many, many years, even before 1994. We wish him a good time and success in whatever he is going to do next. I would like to say as well that in addition to the good wishes I extended to the hon Tony Leon as he goes on holiday next month, those good wishes go to everybody else as well. [Laughter.] Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. Thanks. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you very much, Mr President, and Merry Christmas and a little bit of rest also for the President and the Presidency.

See also QUESTIONS AND REPLIES.

FAREWELL TRIBUTES TO OUTGOING SECRETARY TO THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY, MR KASPER HAHNDIEK

The SPEAKER: Deputy Speaker, may I start by recognising the family of Mr Kasper Hahndiek who are sitting in the Speaker’s bay. [Applause.] We owe you a whole lot of gratitude for having been there, for having been of support to Kasper and for having sacrificed him, actually, and allowed us to use him. This is because he is a very hard-working person and he spent many hours here when, I am quite sure, you would have preferred to have had him with you.

We don’t take that for granted, and we are very grateful for your patience with us and for your support for him, and we wish you a good time with him when he leaves us. [Applause.]

I got the letter giving notice that Mr Hahndiek was going to be retiring at the end of this year quite early in the year. I must say that I just didn’t know what to do with this letter. I didn’t feel like responding, but I knew that the man had to retire. He had been here for more than 30 years. He has been here for 36 years. [Applause.] But I also knew that it was not in the interests of the National Assembly for him to go.

But then, surely, after 36 years, 12 of those spent helping our new democracy to settle down … [Applause.] Twelve of those years were spent sharing perspectives, coming from the first 24 years he had spent here - just to share the technical knowledge he had amassed - and also being willing to understand the new situation, to learn what it was that was new that had to be infused into the knowledge he had been gathering over the earlier decades.

What I must say about Mr Hahndiek is how humble he has always been, how helpful, how willing he is to listen to people’s problems, and also how able he is to think on his feet and to come up with the most incisive kinds of commentary and advice as soon as possible. He is a person who has always been willing to really go the extra mile.

At some point in the middle of the year, I said to him - because I thought he needed to know - that I hadn’t forgotten his letter. I said to him, “But you know that I’m not impressed.” He said, “Yes, Madam, I know”.

We have since had to discuss some kind of way to still make use of what this place has invested in him. Of course initially we have to allow him to spend some months with his family. But because he is not yet an old man, surely we can still call upon him to give training, to even go abroad too and help other parliaments? I mentioned him to the Speaker of Ethiopia who approached me and said that it was the first time that they were going to have a multiparty democratic parliament. So, it was going to be a totally new experience. I said: “Well, I believe that we have just the right man in our Parliament, but he is retiring.”

So I believe, Mr Hahndiek, you need to know that it was not only Afghanistan. He was called upon, by the way, to go to help set up the Parliament of Afghanistan … [Applause.] … but unfortunately he could not go, because he was so busy here in our Parliament. [Laughter.]

I am just trying to point out that he has recognition beyond the borders of South Africa. He has, on a number of occasions, represented our Parliament at the Inter-Parliamentary Union’s Association of Secretaries-General of Parliaments, and I guess it is there that colleagues and counterparts became exposed not just to his knowledge, but also to his personality and how well he is able to relate to other human beings.

So, it really is not easy to part with Kasper Hahndiek, but he deserves his retirement. The retirement he is going on is a very well-deserved one, and I really wish him a good future whatever else he decides to do. But he must never forget us because we will not forget him. Thank you. [Applause.] The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Madam Speaker, I know that you have gone beyond your time, but you made it very difficult for me to stop you. Initially, when I saw the speakers’ list earlier on, I said: “I don’t think she will be able to say everything she would like to say in five minutes.” I think I was right.

Mr M J ELLIS: Madam Deputy Speaker, thank you very much indeed. It’s obviously a huge privilege to follow the hon Speaker, and one must begin by saying that we certainly would endorse everything you have said about Mr Hahndiek today, Madam Speaker.

But, as you have said, Mr Hahndiek certainly has been here a very long time. He has seen Prime Ministers come and go; he has seen Presidents come and go; he has seen Speakers come and go; he has seen Chief Whips come and go, and he has throughout his time retained a neutrality which is both admirable and, at times for all parties, I suspect, very frustrating indeed. I think we would all have liked Kasper Hahndiek to have taken sides at some stage, but he steadfastly refused to do so.

Now, Mr Hahndiek’s biographical notes generally make for very interesting reading indeed. But for me there are two points that really and truly stand out. The first is that a young Kasper Hahndiek joined Parliament in 1970 as a committee clerk and junior Hansard reporter and worked his way up the ladder to become the Secretary to the National Assembly by the mid 1990s – a really highly successful career of which he can be extremely proud.

The second, I think, is even more amazing, in that after school he studied actuarial sciences for two years, with subjects such as pure mathematics, applied mathematics, mathematical statistics, logics and metaphysics. These were some of his subjects. Now, quite frankly, what an extraordinary thing to do! What sort of mind sets about studying subjects like that? I am very glad to say that after two years he gave up those studies because, as he says, he found the air too rarefied.

I want to say that, clearly, Kasper Hahndiek is a person with a very sharp analytical mind, who is a deep thinker, a problem solver - qualities with which he has served Parliament magnificently for 36 years.

Quite frankly, Kasper Hahndiek is far more than this. He is a remarkably warm person, extremely generous with his time and he is always willing to share his knowledge, which, quite frankly, is vast.

These are the attributes that I believe he will be long remembered for, and his staff I believe will bear testimony to this, for he has built up a strong, loyal and highly efficient team who respect him deeply and admire him greatly for the true professional that he is. But we all will miss Kasper Hahndiek, the person, greatly. During his 36 years he has been involved in so much in this institution, and since 1994 in particular he has been synonymous with the development of the new democratic Parliament of which we are all very proud members.

I have had the privilege of working closely with him on a number of projects and have attended so many meetings where he has been present, offering his quiet, excellent advice in that highly professional manner of his. He has the ability to make presiding officers and chairs of committees believe that they know everything, whereas in fact it is Kasper Hahndiek who knows it all. He really is a remarkably astute man.

Throughout his career in Parliament, Kasper has created documents. As one official said to me yesterday, there are literally hundreds of Hahndiek documents floating around Parliament. He has involved himself in so many areas of work and is able to offer insight and advice on so many issues.

It is therefore not surprising to discover the very prominent role he played in writing the current Rules for this Parliament and for the National Assembly, and in the training of new members in terms of parliamentary procedures and the constitutional governance structure.

He is, as Madam Speaker has said, highly regarded generally, but he is highly regarded too as a procedural expert, an absolute boffin on procedure within not only the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces, but also within our provinces themselves that I know do consult him regularly.

Furthermore, as Madam Speaker has said, he is regarded at an international level as an expert in procedure. Madam Speaker has mentioned certain countries. Ireland and Canada are but two countries that have already used his services.

However, I have no doubt that he has often been a very frustrated person in this establishment, when he has worked tirelessly to produce a document at the whim of a presiding officer or committee, only to note that that document never saw the light of day as far as implementation was concerned. I do believe, regrettably, that there are many of these documents.

But Mr Hahndiek is far more than a formidable parliamentary official. As his staff will tell you, one of his greatest attributes is his capacity to share his knowledge and to teach others what he knows. That is why the National Assembly staff are as competent as they are, and when he leaves, apart from his personality which we’ll be missing, there will, in fact, be no gap in the efficiency of the Office of Secretary to the National Assembly. In true Kasper Hahndiek style, he has made sure of this and we respect him and thank him for his attitude.

In this regard, we again congratulate Kamal Mansura on his appointment and wish him every success, and trust that he will follow in Mr Hahndiek’s footsteps in doing a truly fine job in a truly fine manner. [Applause.] We are confident that he will do this because that is the nature of the man and that is also the nature of Kasper Hahndiek, his tutor.

So, we say to Kasper Hahndiek: Thank you for a job truly well done. Your commitment to Parliament as a whole and your energy, your ability and your personality will seriously be sorely missed. We will miss the image of you too, Kasper, with a cigarette in one hand, a cup of coffee in the other, and the ever-ready pencil close by waiting to make the correction to a document that you know is inevitable.

We wish you well in your retirement and trust that it will be as fulfilling as your career in Parliament has been. To you and your family, we wish you all the very best. We are losing a pillar of strength in Parliament and a true gentleman. Thank you very much indeed. [Applause.]

Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Deputy Speaker, I agree with the words expressed by Madam Speaker, and in particular those expressed by Mike. I thought that was a good speech, and I agree with everything.

With the departure of Kasper Hahndiek, a cornerstone of Parliament is sadly being taken out. I want to tell members that there is an interesting resemblance between Kasper and Koos, myself. [Laughter.] Kasper is the longest-serving official of Parliament, and I am the longest-serving Member of Parliament. By the end of this month, Kasper would have served 36 years and I would have served 29 years. There are a number of members here today who were not even born when Kasper and I were running around here in Parliament. [Laughter.]

Kasper and I have served under five heads of state. We served under Prime Minister John Vorster, President P W Botha, President F W de Klerk, President Nelson Mandela and President Thabo Mbeki. But where I would score extra points over Kasper, is that I will hopefully also serve under a sixth head of state, whose identity at this moment is unclear, but who could possibly be President Jacob Zuma. [Interjections.]

Madam Deputy Speaker, Kasper was Kasper 36 years ago, and today he is still Kasper, as efficient as ever. Kasper is a prime example of an official who has acquired a massive portfolio of exceptional skills, which so many officials sadly lack today. Kasper is a master of every division of Parliament. His doors were always open to us. He never complained; he always assisted.

Kasper is the parliamentary version of the Encyclopaedia Britannica. It would be interesting to know what his retirement plans are. I am sure the International Parliamentary Union is not going to allow him to rust in retirement, but will soon call upon him to serve all over the world, offering his formidable skills to numerous other parliaments. I think the Commonwealth Parliamentary Union will do the same, as well as the Pan- African Parliament. Therefore Kasper’s retirement is only a retirement in theory. Hard work, Kasper, lies ahead!

I wanted to celebrate Kasper’s 36 years of parliamentary service by presenting him with an object, and, I carefully say today, an object with 36 candles on it. [Laughter.] But I have been advised that while you, Madam, are in the Chair, that may cause me another day outside this House! [Laughter.]

Finally, in saying goodbye to Kasper - note carefully, we are not saying “farewell” to Kasper – I wish to convey my own special, personal thanks to him for all the assistance he has given me personally over 29 years. Thank you very much, Kasper.

As Kasper was born in Holland, it is appropriate for me to say goodbye to him in pure Dutch: Dag! Gaat je wel, jonge! [Goodbye! May all be well with you, young man!][Applause.]

Ms N C NKABINDE: Madam Deputy Speaker and hon members, the institution of Parliament, even though we may often forget this, is constituted of more than the public representatives whom the citizens vote for in regular elections. As any member of this institution comes to learn very quickly, it is the staff who support the institution and its administration who make it possible for us as parliamentarians to perform and meet our constitutional mandate and obligations.

It is a sad farewell that we therefore bid Mr Hahndiek, who has become an institution at this institution. He possesses a wealth of knowledge, experience and expertise that we will sorely miss with his retirement.

The work of Parliament and democracy is not only vastly more open to the public, but also as a result much more complex and intricate. Even in this state of transparency there is a huge portion of this institution’s work that depends upon complicated procedures and processes that the public never gets to see and that even we as members are often not fully aware of. Behind the scenes, Mr Hahndiek has played a pivotal role in ensuring that we comply with the procedures that give legitimacy to the legislative duties that have elevated this institution and the National Assembly in particular to the highest level of regard among its peers internationally. That is no small achievement for an institution that is barely 10 years old.

We hope, Sir, that you will leave with the knowledge that you have contributed to something truly remarkable, namely the practical expression of the freedom that all South Africans obtained with the advent of democracy. We assure you that we will continue to build upon the foundation that you have helped to lay. It is apt that we bid Mr Hahndiek this official farewell to recognise the excellent work he has done over the years and to publicly acknowledge his vital contribution, which has been performed without public acknowledgement or fanfare. We thank you, Sir, and wish you all the best for your retirement. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr A HARDING: Madam Deputy Speaker, Mr Hahndiek has been at Parliament for longer than the joint age of younger MPs like me and the hon Koos van der Merwe! The ID fully agrees with other speakers before me, and those who still have to come, and pays tribute to Mr Hahndiek’s excellent service record.

Mr Hahndiek has served this institution proudly. As you know, Mr Hahndiek, as MPs we are frequently called up here to say nice things about people to whom we have hardly spoken two words. In your instance, I can definitely say that that is not the case.

Most striking to me is Mr Hahndiek’s humility and his ability to remain calm in this challenging environment. I would like to go as far as to say that Mr Hahndiek is the embodiment of the Batho Pele principle. I am certain that your advice to many political parties, which in many instances was not taken, will be sorely missed.

At the same time the ID wishes to congratulate Mr Mansura on his appointment, and we also want to wish Mr Hahndiek a well-deserved retirement. Thank you. [Applause.]

Rev K R J MESHOE: Madam Deputy Speaker, I first want to agree with everything that the Speaker has said about Mr Hahndiek and also with what other colleagues had to say.

We have come to know him as a hard-working, modest, humble and down-to- earth man and one who, in all his dealings with both MPs and the public, pays due consideration to honouring and upholding the name of the Parliament of the Republic of South Africa.

When we first came to Parliament in 1994, the name Kasper Hahndiek was almost synonymous with the institution of Parliament. For many of us, he has become a trademark of the National Assembly, and we are surely going to miss him. Mr Hahndiek was very helpful in our general orientation about Parliament when we first arrived, but particularly in co-ordinating our training and introduction to the Rules of Parliament.

Until today, his door has always remained open to MPs whenever we needed clarity or help regarding our work. I believe I would not be wrong for giving him all the credit for the knowledge and instruction we received about how to run a democratic Parliament.

Therefore, on behalf of the ACDP, I wish him and his family the Lord’s richest blessings during his retirement, and trust that he will enjoy his much-deserved rest. I thank you. [Applause.]

Dr C P MULDER: Madam Deputy Speaker, it is a privilege and an honour for me, on behalf of the FF Plus, to participate in this very important debate this afternoon.

However, I think I should start off by saying to Mr Hahndiek that I’ve got some good news and I’ve got some bad news. The good news is I think he can rest assured that no one in this Chamber this afternoon will be calling for a division at the end of this specific debate. [Laughter.]

Mr M J ELLIS: Don’t be too sure!

Dr C P MULDER: He presided over many, many divisions, but I can assure him nobody will call for a division this afternoon – that is the good news.

The bad news, however, is that I think Mr Hahndiek should take note of the reality, for example, that in a country called Germany, they have just extended the retirement age to 67. So I think Mr Hahndiek will have to reconsider. He’s got another seven years of service to give to Parliament and South Africa.

Mevrou die Adjunkspeaker, ek wil graag namens die VF Plus baie dankie sê aan mnr Hahndiek vir die diens wat hy hier gelewer het. Soos u sal weet, het hy hier gekom in 1970. As ons dan nou ouderdomme moet vergelyk, dan moet ek bieg dat ek op daardie stadium 11 jaar oud was. Toe ek in 1988 by hierdie Parlement gekom het, was mnr Hahndiek reeds 18 jaar in die Parlement en was hy reeds ’n senior amptenaar op daardie stadium.

Sy totale diens het hy gelewer in die Parlement en ek wil op ’n persoonlike vlak vir hom sê: in baie vergaderings en in baie komitees het ek mnr Hahndiek raakgeloop en hom in aksie gesien waar hy sy werk effektief doen. Ek het hom nooit, nie een keer, kwaad sien word of sy humeur sien verloor of dat hy emosie gewys het dat hy ongelukkig is met wat gebeur in ’n vergadering of dat hy verskil met wat daar gebeur het nie. Hy het hom altyd, ten alle tye, 100% professioneel gedra, nooit sy eie standpunt voorgestoot nie en die Parlement en die Suid-Afrikaanse demokrasie gedien op sy beste manier.

Ek wil vir hom sê baie dankie. Ek wil vir hom alle sterkte toewens namens die VF Plus. Mag hy ’n welverdiende rus hê, maar hy moet asseblief terugkom en verder sy kennis vir ons kom gee. Ons het hom nog steeds nodig. Baie dankie. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Madam Speaker, on behalf of the FF Plus I would like to thank Mr Hahndiek for the service he rendered here. As you know, he started here in 1970. If we should compare age, I must confess that I was 11 years old at that stage. When I came to this Parliament in 1988, Mr Hahndiek had already been at Parliament for 18 years and was already a senior official at that stage.

He gave his all in his service to Parliament and on a personal level I want to tell him: In many meetings and committees I encountered Mr Hahndiek and saw him in action whilst doing his work effectively. I never once saw him getting angry or losing his temper or showing emotion when he was unhappy about something that happened in the meeting or that he disagreed with what happened there. He conducted himself 100% professionally, at all times, never pushed his personal viewpoints and served Parliament and the South African democracy to the best of his abilities.

I just want to thank him. On behalf of the FF Plus I want to wish him well. May he have a well-deserved rest, but he must please come back to give more of his knowledge to us. We still need him. Thank you very much. [Applause.]]

Mr I S MFUNDISI: Deputy Speaker and hon members, we bid farewell to a stalwart, a trailblazer, a workaholic and somebody who is the embodiment of a gentleman and humility personified: Mr Hahndiek.

My first encounter with this gentleman was in 1999 when the UCDP first came to Parliament. I say without any fear of contradiction that the UCDP is the only party that entered Parliament without anyone in its caucus having had experience of Parliament post-1994.

Mr Hahndiek acted as a real pedagogue. He led us by the hand regarding all matters relating to Parliament and naturally even came to show us the National Assembly Chamber. My party is really indebted to this tireless servant of the people for all the tutelage he offered, like Gamaliel of old.

As Secretary of the National Assembly, Mr Hahndiek showed that the price of greatness is responsibility. He showed that greatness is not displayed by doing extraordinary things, but by doing ordinary things extraordinarily well. Mr Hahndiek excelled in this. Whenever he was asked to prepare a document, conduct some research to find out information, he and his staff would always, without fail - I must emphasize - present a well-researched document that would require no further interrogation. Whatever frills or additions there were would be of a political nature to be left to political parties.

The UCDP wishes Mr Hahndiek well in his deserved retirement. I am inclined to echo the words of the Master of all masters when he congratulated one of His servants on a job well done. He said, and I quote:

Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things.

This is from Matthew, chapter 25, verse 21.

He surely has what it takes to traverse the globe, to share some of his experiences. Surely Mr Hahndiek leaves his office and this Parliament with his head held high because of the good race he ran in discharging his duties and may He who is able to keep us from falling present Mr Hahndiek faultless in the face of the world. Farewell, Kasper. Thank you. [Applause.]

Dr G G WOODS: Madam Deputy Speaker, I think the Reverend Meshoe reminds us of the intake of the class of 1994, of the presence of Mr Hahndiek at that particular time, how he mentored us, and how he came around to the caucuses of our various parties and how, perhaps more than any other individual, he gave function and productivity to the new Parliament, to a lot of us who were very awe-struck and bewildered at the time.

We want to associate ourselves with many of the compliments – they are very deserved compliments - that have been given to Mr Hahndiek today by our colleagues. I will have to add our own take, which is that I think that Mr Hahndiek and his knowledge must be recognised - the abundance of knowledge

• and the proper way in which he has always dispensed that knowledge.

I have particularly valued the accessibility of his office. One could go there at any time with any particular problem and, if he could, he would always put aside whatever he was busy on and consult with you.

I had a particular experience with Mr Hahndiek, back in the old days of the arms deal, when many of the conventions of this Parliament - the Constitution and the Rules - were being tested and stretched. On many occasions, I had to go and speak to Mr Hahndiek. I will always be grateful for that calm and astute and clear way in which he gave me a workable interpretation of how to proceed on a particular issue.

With that in mind, and for everything else you have given us, Mr Hahndiek, thank you very much. Go well. We also take this opportunity to welcome Mr Mansura into the seat. Thank you. [Applause.]

Ms S RAJBALLY: Madam Deputy Speaker, Mr Hahndiek has served this Parliament for 36 years. He has witnessed the transition of South Africa from its horrific past to our promising democracy. He has indeed travelled this road with us, and carries the history of our transition with him.

I come to the podium on behalf of the MF, and thank Mr Hahndiek for his service and great contribution to the running of this House. Indeed, after 36 years you have built great relations and your contributions to the House can certainly not be praised enough.

You retirement is certainly well earned after 36 years, and we wish you the best of days to come. May they be filled with love, family and all the relaxation which you sacrificed over all those years.

Madam Speaker, I want to echo your sentiments when you said thank you to the family of Mr Hahndiek for giving him to us for all these years. Now we say, yes, take him back, but not all of him. [Laughter.]

You know, Madam Speaker, while on the visit to China with you, every time I looked when we went for supper and for lunch, I saw Mr Hahndiek having soup. So the other day, I sent him a letter that said, ``Get out of the soup’’. I want to tell his family: Stop giving him more soup now.

Mr Hahndiek, we are going to miss you. Over my seven and a half years with you, we worked very closely. I think I know you better than I do my own family. We wish you all the best. I am sure you are going to come and say hello to us, and you still have your responsibilities.

I also want to take this opportunity to welcome Mr Kamal Mansura, who too has served Parliament for many years. Mr Mansura will certainly fill these shoes well, and we look forward to having him on board as our new parliamentary Secretary. You have certainly earned this position. Our warmest congratulations and well wishes to you, Mr Mansura.

Go well, Mr Hahndiek, and don’t forget us. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Ms N M MDAKA: Madam Speaker, hon members, I used to go to your office crying, Mr Hahndiek. You know that, and you wiped my tears. I am also crying today. [Interjections.]

I rise today to recognise an outgoing public servant, Mr Kasper Hahndiek, who has served Parliament with distinction and dedication during the last three decades, starting in 1970 as a junior Hansard reporter until he was appointed Secretary to the National Assembly.

Mr Hahndiek is the epitome of the South African Public Service. When I speak of him, I am speaking about a person with humility and warmth who would even go to the extent of kneeling down when he greeted people. That’s him.

I join with my colleagues in this House today in wishing Kasper, his wife, Margaret, and their three boys the very best for his retirement years ahead.

In preparing for this speech, I found it both difficult and rewarding at the same time: difficult because Mr Hahndiek will be gone but far from forgotten; rewarding, because those of us who know you, know how special you are.

Mr Hahndiek doesn’t need any titles nor did he wear them. He would often introduce himself as just Kasper. He is a humble and down-to-earth person. He always captured the attention of anyone. He even spoke with those overhearing what he had to say.

Mr Hahndiek embodies sincerity and passion for public service and that of the management community. I want to thank you, Mr Hahndiek, for your service. Mr Hahndiek, we thank you for your leadership role. You upheld and maintained an open-door policy all the time.

You always ensured that all those who required assistance had easy access to you. I wish you success in all your future endeavours. I thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Thank you, hon member. I think these speeches are actually helping Mr Mansura understand his job description, including having to wipe away tears! [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Deputy Speaker, hon members, on the first of November, the Speaker announced the retirement of Mr Kasper Hahndiek, Secretary to the National Assembly. The Speaker indicated that 30 November would be the last day of Mr Hahndiek’s dedicated tenure in this House.

It is with great pleasure that the ANC takes this opportunity to express its gratitude to Mr Hahndiek for the dedicated manner in which he has served Parliament and the nation for 36 years. The outgoing Secretary has set a high standard of professional integrity and diligence.

On our continent, it is said that when an elderly person passes away, it is as if a library has burned down. I should say that this saying fits Mr Hahndiek in respect of his knowledge of this institution.

It is thus ironic that at this very moment that when we are happy for the opportunity to express our gratitude to the outgoing Secretary we, at the same time, feel displeasure in losing a person of his calibre and experience. He has been here longer than many of us. We are told that when he is asked how long he has been here, he appropriately answers, ``Forever’’. When people try to find out whether he was here AD or BC, they are told, no, in fact, he was here BBC, ie born before computers. [Laughter.]

Mr Hahndiek joined Parliament in 1970 as a committee clerk and junior Hansard reporter. In-between working for Parliament and studying part-time, he managed to find some time to get married. He is married to Ms Margaret Versveldt, and they have three sons. [Applause.] He was formally appointed as a Hansard reporter in 1975, and promoted to senior Hansard reporter in

1. A further promotion to assistant editor of Hansard followed in 1984.

He was transferred to the Table and worked as a Table Assistant in 1985, and was formally appointed to the Secretariat of Parliament as Undersecretary in 1988.

In this capacity, he was directly responsible for providing procedural support to the then House of Delegates and the House of Representatives as well as managing a number of services, including language services, legislation and proceedings, and security.

In 1992, he became Senior Undersecretary. During this time, his management duties included the introduction and subsequent application of a performance assessment system, contributing to the restructuring of the parliamentary service to meet changing needs, reviewing policy and directing recruitment drives as the service expanded.

When the new democratic Parliament was established in 1994, Mr Hahndiek was assigned the responsibility for the National Assembly under the former Speaker, the hon Frene Ginwala, and also served on the Management Board of the Parliamentary Service.

Amongst many other assignments not directly related to his line function responsibilities, he was called upon to co-ordinate training workshops and international conferences, and chaired a technical committee to develop new Rules under the direction of a steering committee of members.

In June 1997, with the appointment of Mr Sindiso Mfenyana as Secretary to Parliament, the post of Secretary to the National Assembly was created, and Mr Hahndiek was formally appointed to that post by a House resolution. After the 2004 elections, he continued to serve under the current Speaker, the hon Baleka Mbete.

The new democratic Parliament brought with it many challenges for support staff. Primary amongst these was the need to develop and apply Rules and practices consonant, initially, with the interim constitution, and subsequently, with the new Constitution. A related challenge was the need to provide relevant training on parliamentary proceedings and governance structures.

Mr Hahndiek has insisted on maintaining an open-door policy, ensuring that all who require assistance would have ready access to him, and would obtain meaningful and practical advice. We can add that his open-door policy was accompanied by a covered-desk policy, and that people tell us that there are parts of his desk which have not seen the light of the sun for many, many decades!

Notwithstanding that, he claims - and we have no reason to dispute his claim - that he has absolute knowledge of where every one of those files is and what it contains.

We should acknowledge his instrumental role in the production of a number of publications on the core business of Parliament, including the National Assembly Guide to Procedure, the regularly issued Procedural Developments in the National Assembly and the Audit of Statutes: Guide to Parliament’s Obligations under the Constitution and Legislation.

When we asked some of the people who have been privileged to work with Mr Hahndiek what type of person he is, they all had the same thing to say. They praised him for always being a good team player. In the heat of pressure, other people lose their tempers, experience frustration or give up. Mr Hahndiek never loses his serenity. Maybe it is because of his frequent visits to the smoking zone. [Laughter.]

In fact, there are those who allege that Mr Hahndiek’s retirement is brought about not by the fact that he has been here for 36 years, but because of the new rules and laws that outlaw smoking in offices, and that those have forced him to go! [Applause.]

Mr Hahndiek has worked in this institution under different political systems, and with various leaders and colleagues. He has served all with great distinction. Of course, without suggesting that there were no difficulties, this is a great human quality.

On the topic of different political systems, we have tried for very long to ascertain what political party Mr Hahndiek actually belongs to. We have finally been informed that in fact he belongs to the CCPP, the Coffee, Cigarette, and Pencil Party. [Laughter.]

Now we have made the point that the outgoing Secretary to the National Assembly has set a high standard of professional integrity and diligence. The challenge of creating the society envisaged in the Constitution requires people who are able to translate the principles contained therein into a lived reality.

The outgoing Secretary has ensured that we, the institution, the people he served, come first. He exemplifies the caring cadre that we should populate our governance structures with. He is accessible and flexible. He, at all times, listens to different views and never sought to gain popularity by undermining those in positions of responsibility.

He has made an immense contribution in reinforcing our confidence in the ability of the institution to support us. Even as he departs, we feel fortunate that there are men and women of our country such as him whose conduct is a reflection of the humanist and uplifting tradition of ubuntu and the practice of Batho Pele.

The ANC wishes him, his wife and their family happiness and success in their future plans, and welcomes his successor, Mr Kamal Mansura, and wishes him all of the best. Thank you. [Applause.]

                     SOUTH AFRICAN AIRWAYS BILL

                       (First Reading debate)

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: I wish to remind members that there is no speakers’ list for this type of First Reading debate. After the introductory speech, members who wish to participate in the debate must press the ``To Talk’’ button on their desks, and when recognised by the presiding officer may speak from the floor microphones.

The MINISTER FOR PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Madam Deputy Speaker, I add my own best wishes to Mr Hahndiek, and to the incoming Secretary. It’s really a quite moving occasion, I think, to get such a moving farewell.

Deputy Speaker, ladies and gentlemen, I am tabling another Bill today that continues the process of restructuring Transnet. I have had the difficult task of negotiating with the chair of the portfolio committee, the hon Carrim, to allow me to place yet another burden on the committee’s shoulders at this late stage. However, we will deal with the Bill first thing next year, and not this year.

The focus of our attention this time is on the South African Airways. You will recall that our intention is to focus Transnet on the movement of freight by means of rail, ports and pipelines. Given this focus, the location of SAA as a Transnet subsidiary is not optimal. SAA is a major enterprise in its own right, and it operates in an industry that has markedly different conditions to that of the rail and port freight systems.

Accordingly, to ensure that there is full focus by the boards and the management on these differing domains, it has been decided to take SAA off Transnet’s balance sheet, and to move its shareholding to the Department of Public Enterprises.

Let me briefly locate SAA in the very dynamic airline industry. SAA has been in operation for more than 70 years. It now carries more than 6,5 million passengers each year, and serves 34 cities in 26 countries on 6 continents. It employs close to 12 000 people worldwide, including 3 600 at SAA technical. The staff includes about 2 800 flight attendants and more than 800 pilots. By any standards, SAA is a significant airline in a rapidly changing aviation environment.

International air transport grew at double-digit rates from its earliest post-1945 days until the first oil crisis in 1973. Much of the impetus for this growth came from technical innovation and, combined with increased dual incomes and more leisure time, the effect was an explosion in the demand for air travel.

The dampening of the industry growth as a result of 9/11 therefore came as a real shock to the airline industry. No one was prepared for the scenario and as a result many airlines around the globe find themselves in dire straits.

According to Iata, the International Air Transport Association, the global airline industry suffered losses of around US$5 billion in 2004 alone, meaning that the industry was still reeling three years after the 9/11 event.

However, global passenger traffic is expected to grow by about 6% per annum between 2006 and 2008, driven by particularly strong growth and demand for air travel in China and India, and between Asia and Europe.

Iata also projects that air travel to and from South Africa will, for the 5 years to the year 2010, grow at an average annual rate of 5%. Such growth will require additional aviation capacity in general, and airline capacity in particular, to increase by about 30%.

Accordingly, the next few years are critical years for South Africa air passenger transport and indeed the same applies to the whole of Africa.

As Africa’s largest airline by a wide margin, there is no doubt that SAA plays a crucial strategic role and, like many countries around the world, the state will retain decisive ownership of SAA.

At this particular point in our economic and geopolitical history, we must use a strategic asset such as the national carrier to attain certain trade, air service and tourism objectives. Over time, as we realise these objectives, we will take a pragmatic and economic approach to the airline industry and location of SAA.

We do need to inject capital into the airline if it is to meet the challenges and realise the opportunities of the next few years. Ways of doing this are currently under consideration and, as I have indicated on previous occasions, we are in principle supportive of a future IPO should the situation warrant it.

However, the immediate task is to improve operational performance, manage costs, stabilise routes and aircraft usage, and strengthen the balance sheet. In all these areas we are making progress.

The draft Bill gives legal effect to the decision to separate SAA from Transnet. The separation entails a transfer of the entire shareholding held by Transnet and South African Airways to the government of the Republic of South Africa, including any assets, liabilities, rights or obligations which Transnet had in South African Airways.

The government, through the Department of Public Enterprise, will therefore assume the responsibilities of Transnet and various guarantees given on behalf of South African Airways to third-party lenders and other entities such as the International Air Services Licensing Council. The terms and conditions of this transfer are contained in an agreement reached in June this year between the three parties involved, namely the DPE, Transnet and SAA.

One of the salient features of this agreement is ownership risk, and any benefit in SAA will be transferred to government, effective from 31 March 2006.

South African Airways will be sold to government at the carrying value of SAA on Transnet books, which was R2,049 billion, and this will be effected through Transnet’s buy-back of R2,049 billion shares from government.

Transnet will convert the current account facility held by SAA into a R1 billion transitional loan facility. SAA employees, all of whom are members of the Transnet Pension Fund, will continue to have their share of the fund fully funded when the Transnet Pension Fund is restructured into a multi- employer fund, as part of the agreement reached with the Transnet trade unions in April 2006. We dealt fully with this matter yesterday.

Between the signature date and closing date, my department, together with Transnet, will jointly carry oversight responsibilities in respect of SAA to ensure the efficient handover of direct control to government.

This Bill will complete one of the suspensive conditions contained in the agreement referred to above. The Bill also allows for the conversion of SAA from a Pty Ltd to a public company. This places it on the same footing as the other large state-owned enterprises, thereby facilitating capital market activities, recapitalisation and future partnerships.

Once again, I would like to thank the chairperson of the portfolio committee and the committee members for assisting us in getting the Bill before this House at such short notice and so late in the year.

I appreciate the extra work they have done to achieve this and thank them for their understanding. This will allow us to complete the separation process, and begin the further strengthening of SAA’s balance sheet. I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr P A C HENDRICKSE: Madam Deputy Speaker, as the Minister has just stated, the Bill deals with two issues in general, the first being the transfer of SAA from Transnet to the Department of Public Enterprises, and the second being the provision for the conversion of SAA into a public entity.

The first aim of this Bill should not present any problems to either the House or the committee. It essentially gives effect to a fait accompli. SAA, for all intents and purposes, has already been transferred to the DPE subject to certain suspensive conditions being met, this piece of legislation being one of them.

The transfer is part of the restructuring and the refocusing of Transnet for the freight industry only. Yesterday we passed the Transnet Pension Fund Amendment Bill, which deals with the pension provisions of those SAA employees who worked for Transnet at the time of transfer, and the relevant unions have all agreed to this transfer.

It is with regard to the second part of this Bill that the committee will need much more information. For example, what does the future conversion of SAA mean to the country and the freight industry, particularly the transport industry? What is the function of SAA? Will it still be a national carrier and what does that mean? What will be the bottom line in future - that of service to the country or profits? Who will be able to buy into SAA? Will there ultimately be a listing? If so, will there be any restrictions? Will routing decisions be based on financial considerations, as they appear under the current CEO? Will foreign banks, for example, be allowed to buy shares and to determine the operations of SAA? This is because one would want to ask what the motives would be for anyone buying shares in SAA and one would assume it would be to get a good return on investments.

How will the future SAA be different from British Air operating as Comair or Nationwide? Also, Minister - as you would know - have we learnt anything from our Swiss experience? The SAA CEO mentioned to us the other day with their annual report to Parliament the example of an Irish airline - I think it is called Aer Lingus - that listed publicly. Then there was a bid by Ryanair to purchase shares in Aer Lingus, and the government was trying to block this. Will we face such challenges in the future?

It may therefore be necessary for the committee to advertise for comment and possibly to hold public hearings on this matter. This Bill, if I may say, once again illustrates the need for committees to receive the kind of technical assistance they require to deal with Bills like this.

Until such time that we have engaged the Minister and the department on some of these questions, we are not able to express ourselves on the second part of the Bill dealing with the preparation for the future conversion of SAA as a public entity.

This morning’s business report refers to the possible refund to SAA by certain former executives of bonuses paid to them. Now, we must assume that these payments were approved by the then CEO, the board and the Minister. I raise this as an illustration that we must always be aware that when we legislate, we do so not only for the here and now, but also for the future. We therefore should not be influenced by the present incumbents when we consider the issues before us. Who knows who the next Minister, CEO or board will be; even more so, who the next chairperson of the portfolio committee will be?

It is in this spirit that we raise the kinds of questions that we do. Minister, we do appreciate that there is a sense of urgency and we want to assure you that we will bear this in mind as we process the Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]

Ms S RAJBALLY: Madam Deputy Speaker, noting the cumbersome duties of Transnet and the position of SAA, the MF supports the transfer of SAA to the state. While I would have liked to have spoken about how SAA should become a far more economical airline and far more accessible to South Africans in view of costs, I redirect attention to clause 3(1)(a) in which greater clarity is needed to explain what is being communicated.

While we are certain that this will assist in making SAA more financially stable, we question how the state is managing its role as a shareholder while the suspensive conditions are being met? Interest is also expressed as to what Transnet’s role is during the interim period. The MF supports the SAA Bill. Thank you.

Mr H B CUPIDO: Hon Deputy Speaker, as with the Transnet Pension Fund Amendment Bill discussed in the House yesterday, the South African Airways Bill represents another legislative mandate that will facilitate Transnet’s shift to a focus on core operations.

The ACDP repeats its support for initiatives that enhance economic growth through strengthening our country’s infrastructure. Within this context, the contribution of proceeds of selling of noncore assets to Transnet’s capital investment programme is ensured of a smooth passage. By July this year, SAA’s domestic market share had shrunk to below 50% for the first time in history.

This Bill will provide support for the decision to make SAA a stand-alone state-owned enterprise. The ADCP expresses the hope that both the country and SAA will benefit from this exercise, and we support the First Reading of the Bill.

Mr J J M STEPHENS: Madam Deputy Speaker, as the hon Minister said, this Bill is in fact part of the restructuring process of Transnet and, as such, the DA supports the basic principle of the restructuring and therefore supports what follows from that.

The Bill itself we only had short sight of but it seems a very straightforward and a very short Bill. However, one can only hope that when we start interrogating the detail thereof it will not turn out to be the dog’s breakfast that the previous one was that will require us to sit days on end to rewrite. But even rewriting this Bill will, I think, be an easier process than the previous one was since it is not such an involved Bill.

The major thing, I think, that really needs interrogation is the question of the public company, but one can see that the changeover from a Pty Ltd to a public company obviously has the idea of financing behind it. Since the idea is that all these state- owned enterprises must be self-financing, it becomes a much better proposition to have a public company seeking finance because it has so many more options to gain financing, not only because of IPOs but also from investment banks that would not be prepared to invest in private companies but would certainly look at investing in public companies. So, one can see the reason behind this.

We would like to be assured, however, about the checks and balances that go into that changeover, so as to make quite sure that SAA does remain a strategic carrier for South Africa under all circumstances. And, of course, we don’t know whether, as a matter of policy, the fruits of this are going to expand to include more than Mangoes and whether we are going to have banana freight and pawpaw charters as well eventually. Are they going to keep on creating subsidiary companies to manage each and every one of the divisions of SAA? It might turn into a whole fruit basket.

But, as the Bill stands at the moment, we have no obvious objection to it. We support the principle of it, and we wait to be further briefed and to interrogate the detail thereof. I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker.

Mr J P CRONIN: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. Like the previous speakers, I obviously support the principle behind the draft Bill, namely the separation of SAA from Transnet and its conversion into a public company in its own right. This will help Transnet to focus on its core rail, ports and pipelines business and will also help all of us, but particularly the Department of Public Enterprises, to focus, amongst other things, on SAA in its own right as a public company.

Despite many problems that have confronted the airline industry, including the technical insolvency of SAA at one point, and the Swissair collapse – I’m not sure if it was a banana or a banana skin - as well as obviously the global shock post-9/11 to the airline industry, I think it is very important to recognise just how important this sector has been to South Africa over the past 15 years.

One example is that 15 years ago 1 million international travellers arrived at our airports. By last year, the figure was 7 million travellers arriving at our airports in South Africa and, obviously, SAA has been the key player in this respect, but of course not the only player.

Going forward the big question is: Do we need a national carrier; and, if so, what do we mean by a national carrier? The Department of Transport’s July Airlift Strategy 2006, which was apparently approved by Cabinet in July of this year and tabled, as it happens, in Parliament this week, makes a very persuasive case for the importance of a national carrier for South Africa.

South Africa, of course, is much better off than many other African countries. The stories of having to travel via a former colonial capital to get from one African country to another are legion. In South Africa, obviously, we have SAA and some 75 foreign-scheduled airlines flying into our country. But the frequency of the flights to and from South Africa by the non-South African carriers is often determined by seasonal demands and other short-term commercial factors, rather than by the need for regular, if not daily, commuter traffic.

South Africa’s growth and development and our role on the continent cannot be held hostage to seasons or to irregular demands. We must retain our capacity for international and regional integration, and SAA as a national carrier is a very important strategic asset in this respect.

Of course SAA must be placed on a commercially viable footing to be sure, but SAA is much more than just another commercial operation; it’s a national strategic asset and its future institutional and ownership features must bear this in mind. That doesn’t mean that we must preserve some mechanical and bureaucratic state ownership for its own sake - there are some unfortunate examples of airlines of that kind on our continent - but it does mean ensuring that the future of SAA is not subject to the short-termism that is often characteristic of the marketplace.

I am therefore somewhat reassured by what the Minister has said - his pragmatic approach – and also by his strategic understanding of this very important asset. Like previous speakers, I think this is an area that we need to debate, discuss and watch very carefully as we go forward. Thank you, Deputy Speaker.

Ms O R KASIENYANE: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. In 2004, Cabinet approved the separation of SAA from Transnet to become a separate state-owned enterprise. Now, to repeat what previous speakers have said, this Bill will provide for the transfer of SAA shares, SAA interest and SAA claims from Transnet to the state, as well as the conversion of SAA Pty Ltd into a public company with share capital. Finally, the Bill provides for the listing of SAA as a major public entity in terms of Schedule 2 of the Public Finance Management Act.

As the Freedom Charter states, there shall be work and security, and the state shall recognise the rights and the duty of all to work. Furthermore, given a long history of protecting worker rights, the ANC welcomes the Bill, as it will not affect the terms and conditions of service of SAA employees. This is a big step towards the realisation of a better life for all South Africans.

In the event of the public share offering of SAA, care should be taken to safeguard the interests of the South African public and to avoid the mistakes made with the public share offering of certain other state-owned enterprises. Once again, we welcome the assurance of the Minister that the rights and privileges of workers will not be negatively affected. We will keep a close watch on the progress of the entire Bill in the Portfolio Committee on Public Enterprises and will interact with them if and when necessary.

The ANC supports the South African Airways Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr Y I CARRIM: Madam Deputy Speaker, comrades and friends, obviously SAA is financially challenged and needs money. Obviously, there is a variety of forms of securing that money, and when we take this into account, we might choose a number of options. We also have to consider the experience that SAA has undergone not so long ago.

I am not sure whether it is parliamentary for the hon Fatima Chohan-Khota to smile in the way she is smiling when I am speaking and I am not saying anything funny, but I’ll leave that for her to think about.

All I’m simply saying is that the committee met this morning. We obviously will get a briefing on the Bill very early in the new year, and will decide what course of action to take. We certainly mean to meet the deadline, which I understand to be the beginning of the next financial year, and, if need be, we will look into the possibility of public participation. We will certainly have public participation, but the issue is what form it will take. In the first instance, we will alert the key stakeholders that this Bill is before us and we are processing it and, if need be, we will in fact have public hearings.

We must obviously take into account the experience we had, as I was saying before I was so rudely interrupted by the hon Fatima Chohan-Khota’s smile. [Interjections.] Now Mr Ben Martins is intruding on my space and the longer he does that, the longer I will take to speak.

I need to tell this House that yesterday I achieved an unprecedented goal. Never in the history of parliaments has a member spoken for a fifth of the time he or she was allocated. I achieved that yesterday, and I’d like to exceed that today. So, people, don’t interrupt me, and I’ll finish promptly.

I was saying, once again, before I was rudely interrupted by the hon Ben Martins, who, for the fact that he lives in the same town as I do, doesn’t qualify to be so unduly intrusive, especially as I am from the same party as him.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please come back to the South African Airways Bill.

Mr Y I CARRIM: But, coming back to the point, we have this experience of the partnership with Swiss Air, and clearly we drew many lessons from that.

The Minister, no less, has told our committee on more than one occasion that it is difficult, at times challenging, to say the least, to secure a national agenda when you enter into these partnerships with companies that rightly have other agendas as well. So that, too, must be taken into account in processing the Bill. I thank you and I wish you all a happy Christmas. [Applause.]

Ms F CHOHAN-KHOTA: Madam Deputy Speaker, on a point of order: I want to say that it is highly inappropriate for the hon Yunus Carrim to use this opportunity to try to sap money from the hon Ben Martins and me, because he knows a lot about being financially challenged. He obviously has tried to raise funding for the party, Madam Deputy Speaker, and we’ve refused.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! That is not a point of order.

The MINISTER FOR PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Thank you very much … [Interjections.]

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I am waiting for the hon members to acknowledge that the Minister is just about to address the House, please. [Applause.]

The MINISTER FOR PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Thank you, Deputy Speaker. They are a little bit remiss this late in the afternoon, I can see.

Thank you very much to the hon members. They have raised some very interesting points, and whilst I know there’s another debate waiting, I would like just, in a minute or two, to deal with some of these issues, because as we go forward we should think about them. Firstly, I think there is general agreement that we should separate SAA from Transnet. These are two of the biggest companies in South Africa and to have them under one umbrella was very difficult. The issues that are arising are, I think, mainly two very important issues. Firstly, I am interested to hear the views of members on the issue of the strategic need for a national airline. I would really like to stress this. I think that anyone who watches the situation around the world will agree that, where a country has been unable to maintain a national airline, their air traffic position changes. There is no question about it.

Now in the modern world it’s very difficult for small countries to maintain a national airline, and that is why I did make those comments about the age of SAA and its size. So we have not only a national asset here, we have a very unusual national asset, and I would put it in the same category as Eskom. These have been built up over a long period of time, so there is no way that we could possibly do anything to weaken this asset. It’s a very important part of our structures.

In public hearings, you will get many viewpoints as to whether this should be in private hands, whether we should be opening low-cost carriers, whether we are not going into the terrain of the private sector in the marketplace. The point that we are making very strongly is that, in respect of modern airlines, outside of Europe, you’ll see very often that an airline has an airline as we understand it, and then they have one or other form of low-cost carrier.

If you look at the South African situation, the major low-cost carrier, Kulula, is effectively part of the chain of airlines from British Airways. So we are doing something similar. There is a totally new market emerging, of younger people, people with rising incomes who would like low-cost carriers. So if you want to provide a strategic airline service, you must also provide that service in the market and it’s got to operate commercially. This is very clear.

So having the national airline, particularly for South Africa, particularly for Africa, is very important. The point that we have made very clearly is that the state will retain decisive ownership of this for the foreseeable future. The circumstances are going to remain the same for some years, maybe more than a decade, we don’t know. It would be silly to quote an actual number, but what we know is that for all operational purposes, the state will be the decisive owner, for some time to come.

The public company aspect is important. Now, what we are doing here - members of the committee will be very familiar with this – is that SAA will become a state-owned enterprise. So we will expect it to function in the same way as Eskom and Transnet, that is, they’ve got to enter the capital markets, they’ve got to cover their costs and, we’ve already made it clear

• the Minister of Finance has made it clear - we will not recapitalise SAA from the budget. So it’s going to have to be done through normal commercial financial methods.

That is why - and it is a very simple and important reason the hon Stephens was raising – it is much easier to do that with a public company. This is no different from what Eskom and Transnet are. So we are doing it for that reason, there is nothing else behind that. We will have to recapitalise before the next financial year. How we do it is a matter under discussion, as I indicated. But the notion that we are subsidising is not correct. All around the world, there are very few airlines in the world today that haven’t received state support in one or other form. With regard to the fact that we did underwrite the very big losses as a result of the hedge book: yes, we did that, because the consequences of closing SAA were just too great.

But what we are driving for in this future period is that SAA will function in the same way as Eskom and Transnet. They have to go under the capital markets, they have to operate efficiently, and they’re state-owned enterprises, so we expect a rate of return on the operations, but as we’ve continuously defined it, this is an economic rate of return, ie it takes into account the economic effect of the enterprise. So it is not a profit maximiser, but it must make a profit. And this is the distinction, essentially, between the big state strategic companies and an ordinary private company.

I think it is a fairly sophisticated model, one that we increasingly understand better. Management has to be efficient, costs have to be managed, we have to function properly and we are not a national carrier in the old sense of the word. I think this is what the hon Cronin was referring to, saying that there are bad examples of this, where you can do what you like because if you make a loss we’ll put money in. Well, that’s not the case. This has to operate effectively. I am generally pleased with the progress, and I thank you for the support.

We should have public hearings because I think it is very important for people to understand exactly what it is we are doing, so that people can express themselves. We do need to try to get this through before the end of the financial year. It speeds processes up and allows us to move forward on the recapitalisation. Thank you. Applause. [Time expired.]

Debate concluded.

THE 2010 FIFA WORLD CUP AS A MECHANISM TO ACHIEVE SOCIAL COHESION BY  UNITING SOUTH AFRICANS TOWARDS A COMMON GOAL AND THE PROMOTION OF NATIONAL
  IDENTITY, UBUNTU AND A CARING COMMUNITY WITH A FOCUSED AND PROUD,
                         DISCIPLINED YOUTH.

                 (Debate on the 2010 Fifa World Cup)

Mr B M KOMPHELA: Madam Deputy Speaker, hon members, hon Deputy Minister, we have requested this kind of discussion to keep the people of South Africa informed of the very important changes and processes that are going on around the world, particularly in South Africa.

Thank you, Chairperson for this opportunity. It is a great pleasure for me to submit our view of the state of affairs; the progress made in South Africa; the efforts that have been put forward for the 2010 Fifa World Cup. The best ever World Cup is going to be staged on our own African soil; a beautiful game in a beautiful country, South Africa. I would like to sketch for you just how we were blessed with this opportunity to host this once-in-a-lifetime important event in South Africa. The history of the Fifa World Cup has been running for more than 74 years. This is the first time that Fifa has awarded an African country - South Africa to be more specific - this grand, auspicious occasion.

For members to fully understand what we are dealing with here we must first understand the many challenges that beset South African football in the past years and understand that we cannot remove football history from the considerable difficulties that the country faced as a result of our apartheid past.

The history of South African football dates back to the 19th century. In fact, the earliest recorded football match in this country was a match played amongst the British soldiers in Port Elizabeth in 1862. A year after that game, there was the establishment of the English Football Association

• the oldest in the world. We were the first to play this beautiful game outside Europe, on this continent, and we must pride ourselves on this achievement. Therefore, football is not foreign in this country: South Africa is a home of football. [Applause.]

Football was beset by racial segregation, like the rest of the country in those dark days. There were boycotts and protests, and administrators and even Fifa itself at one stage expelled South Africa from participating in the world terrain.

In fact, Fifa put this very clearly to South Africa: that South Africa must free itself from a racial environment before it seeks to be readmitted to Fifa again. That was a tremendous milestone in our people’s push for nonracialism and for a sport that has no colour. Later South Africa was asked to be an observer in a Congress of Confederation of African Football in Dakar, Senegal, in 1992. South African membership of the world body, Fifa was confirmed later in Zurich in June 1992.

All these efforts did not just come from heaven, but through a tremendous struggle that we as a continent and as a country went through because we wanted to be counted in the nations of the world, as well as to be part of a nonracial, nonsexist sport.

Our readmission to the Fifa family came as a result of South Africa fulfilling one of the cornerstones of Fifa policy, which asked that we rid ourselves of apartheid. We acknowledged that and it was a condition that we fulfilled in 1994. Therefore, we are participating in the sport today freely because that is one priority that we have to fulfil.

The second step is that the process came after a highly successful peaceful election in 1994. This helped us to achieve the highest marks in an irreversible test of whether the dispensation in South Africa was ready to host the World Cup. All these were culminations of the events to test whether South Africa is a fully democratic country. And indeed we are a fully democratic country.

Let us look at the position we were in when we bid for this World Cup. South Africa’s pursuit in the World Cup is therefore firmly located in the principle that gave birth to a new South Africa in 1994.

The three complementary desires converged to form a national consensus that followed the national emergence from 400 years of colonial rule and the struggle to free ourselves from apartheid. A primary focus in this consensus was readmission to the sporting world. This was necessitated by the country’s isolation stemming from the dehumanising policies of apartheid until we became a democratic country.

Securing the right to host the Fifa World Cup was therefore a logical progression for this strategy and another milestone in creating and bringing about a better economy, a better world and a better South Africa.

This readmission also gave us a voice to say that we would be able to bid for this World Cup and successfully mobilise the countries of the world to support South Africa as a better destination to host this august occasion.

During the bidding phase of this event our President articulated the commitment of the nation to this process when he remarked in a letter to Fifa and Sepp Blatter that the fundamentals of this bid lie in our resolve to ensure that the 21st century unfolds as a century to grow and develop in Africa.

He continued by stating that the New Partnership for Africa’s Development was launched to open new doors for economic progress in the continent and work still remains to be done, but the successful hosting of the Fifa World Cup in South Africa will provide a powerful monument to this resolute African Renaissance.

The Fifa World Cup is one of many fronts with regard to which we seek to create a real African century on the continent. The legacy programme of the 2010 Fifa World Cup brings together the highest profile people from all institutions around the world, to discuss some of the most difficult issues facing this continent.

We have seen during the unveiling of the emblem in Germany the most powerful world leaders. Our President joined the German Chancellor, the United Nation’s Secretary-General, Kofi Anan, and the African Union Commission Chairperson and other world-renowned luminaries to pledge their support for the African world to host the World Cup. Many people ask questions such as: Is South Africa ready to host this World Cup? The Fifa World Cup is much more than just 90 minutes of football. We do not want to forget that the World Cup in Germany has just ended in July

1. It has only been four months since we concluded the World Cup in Germany.

But there is something very interesting. On the Fifa website they still show that 2006 has not ended and therefore Germany is still the destination for the World Cup. South Africa will become the destination in 2007, not in 2006, because the proper World Cup handover to South Africa will be in January 2007.

This is the first World Cup in which South Africa has unprecedented interest and criticism and the big question is: Can we do it? Today we are committing ourselves and telling the world and the nation that yes, we can. We are going to do it and one of the world’s best soccer World Cup events ever will be held in South Africa.

We can confirm that everything so far is on track. We have a commitment from government and therefore we are committing ourselves and without apology and without any contradiction hosting the best World Cup ever in South Africa.

Hon members, we still have 48 months to go and construction is going to start in January 2007. Fifa has properly given us 48 months and it is now the time for South Africa to begin to do the work. And we will be meeting that target. We are still on track. There is no fear that something could go wrong, apart from all those criticisms and the prophets of doom who say that South Africa is behind schedule. At this stage we are far ahead of where any other country that has hosted the World Cup before has been at the same stage.

The Fifa World Cup is about providing world-class infrastructure that can be used to build our economy for generations to come. It is about providing a world-class transport system. [Time expired.] Thank you, Madam Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr S J MASANGO: Hon Chairperson and hon members, the 2010 World Cup has been embraced by all political parties in this House, as well as by the people of South Africa. It is therefore difficult to understand what it is that we should be debating about the Soccer World Cup today. The World Cup has been awarded to South Africa. It is not going anywhere else. It is here; it is official; and it is a reality.

Ngelimi likamufi uBrenda, kuthiwa: Ayifuni irula. [According to the song of the late Brenda, it is said: It does not need a ruler.]

As the DA said from the start, the 2010 Soccer World Cup is a prestigious occasion for all of us in Africa, and most importantly, for all South Africans. It represents a unique opportunity to showcase our abilities and skills. We should do everything in our power to rise to the occasion.

Okuqakatheke khulu, leli kulithuba ebantwini abatjha abanomnqopho wokudlalela IBhegere yePhasi yeBholo erarhwako lokobana bazimisele, khona bazakukhethwa bonyana babe yingcenye yesiqhema esizakudlala ngo-2010. Akuzokuba ngetjhudu ukuba sesiqhemeni. Kuzakufuneka bonyana kusetjenzwe nzima; kuliswe utjwala ngombana utjwala ngebabantu abadala. (Translation of isiNdebele paragraph follows.)

[The most important thing is that this is an opportunity for young people, who have set themselves the goal of playing in the 2010 FIFA World Cup and they need to be serious about it so that they can be selected and be part of our team that will play in 2010. It will not be a walk in a park for them, though. Our kids have to work very hard and stay away from alcohol, because alcohol is for older people.]

Thus our goal with regard to every project, every subcontract, every stadium and, indeed, every element of the 2010 World Cup should be to ensure that it is the best tournament ever. We should not compromise. We should see every challenge as an opportunity to set the bar at the highest possible level. We have a chance to redefine how best to host a World Cup, to set a new international standard of excellence and to achieve a new level of success.

The 2010 Soccer World Cup in South Africa is an event that will remain in our minds for years to come. It is upon us to make it a memorable one. We have signed guarantees with the host cities, the Department of Sport and Recreation and other relevant departments that we commit ourselves that we shall deliver. Every element of our society must now do its part to ensure that we make good on our promises and that we use them as a chance to show the rest of the world how good we are.

I think it is important that one should applaud the Minister of Finance for showing his commitment during the medium-term budget, by making the much- awaited move to allocate R15 billion for the 2010 World Cup. This is one of the areas that needed clarity and I am pleased to say that it has now been sorted out. Without the funds for the 2010 World Cup, the World Cup would have remained a dream for South Africans.

It is now time for those who are responsible for the construction of the infrastructure to get out of their offices, take their spades and wheelbarrows and start with the real job, and that is building the stadiums. They now have no excuse for not starting with the work. Of crucial importance is that we should not only plan for the 2010 World Cup event, but should look beyond the 2010 World Cup. Whatever we plan or implement should aim to take us beyond the 2010 World Cup and into the future.

We have so far received only one progress report from the Local Organising Committee, or LOC. By far the most critical factor highlighted by the committee in its report is the acquisition of land for the construction of stadiums. All the host cities have acquired land as per the report of the LOC, except the Municipality of Mbombela in Nelspruit. They are still awaiting approval. This is an issue that I have raised before in this House as a member’s statement.

I outlined the problem and I hope that it will be sorted out as a matter of urgency so that construction can begin early next year as planned. The Local Organising Committee must communicate as much as it can but, most importantly, it must communicate in one message so that we can be kept abreast of the progress of the preparations. Failure to communicate properly will result in the media having incomplete or inaccurate information, the consequence of which can only be negative for South Africans both here at home and internationally. As much as we anticipate that the 2010 World Cup will unite the people of South Africa and Africa as a whole, we must just remember that this is not going to happen automatically. It is upon this government to create conditions that are conducive to achieving cohesion, uniting South Africans, and promoting national identity and a caring community with a focused and proud disciplined youth.

This prestigious event should not only be enjoyed by people from Gauteng, Cape Town or Durban, but this excitement should also be extended to Mapulaneng, Siyabuswa, KwaNongoma and even to the deep rural areas called “Matlapa a nkwaletše.” It should not only be enjoyed by the Minister of Sport and Recreation, Safa members or members of the Local Organising Committee for Fifa, but by all citizens of South Africa. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr E J LUCAS: Chairperson, there was great excitement when it was announced that South Africa will be the host country for the 2010 Fifa World Cup. We will be the first nation on the African continent to host this greatly watched event. This historic announcement did not only create excitement and prospects of financial gain for many industries and entrepreneurs, it also gave hope to millions of South Africans. The hope and pride that the World Cup will bring to many South Africans can’t be measured as easily as financial gains. Any sportsperson, regardless of their race or background, dreams of taking part and competing at the highest level against the very best in the world. This dream can become a reality for many young men and boys who will now aspire to be part of our national football team that will compete for the World Cup at home. South Africa is a sport-loving nation. When our national teams won the Rugby World Cup in 1995 and the African Cup of Nations in 1996, the whole country was overcome with joy and pride. Even the few people who weren’t normally great followers of these sports felt a sense of national unity. The 2010 World Cup can play even an bigger role in this regard.

The performance of our national team is therefore of utmost importance as they are carrying the hopes and dreams of our entire nation. The players and the team will also have a huge impact as role models for many young people in our country. They must therefore conduct themselves accordingly. If this World Cup is to make a positive impact on our youth and promote the national identity, it is imperative that we make this a truly African event. I have mentioned previously and I still maintain that we can and must learn from previous tournament hosts, but it is vitally important that we do not try to produce a carbon copy of their events.

We are African, and as such we must host an African event that will showcase our unique cultures and styles and instil a sense of pride in our people. This will, however, only be possible if all South Africans are part of these events. The people of South Africa and Africa are not as financially rich as their counterparts in other countries around the world. If we charge the same or similar ticket prices as charged in tournaments held in other parts of the world, we will effectively be excluding the majority of the people from enjoying the games, as well as from being part of the World Cup and supporting their national teams. We must therefore make it a priority to find ways of ensuring that the games involving all African countries are affordable to supporters from their respective countries.

Soccer brings much joy to millions of people in Africa and helps them to forget their problems and hardships - even if it is just for a short while. It would therefore be sad and unfair if they were excluded from these events. Although we acknowledge that it will take more than a sporting event to overcome the many problems and hardships facing South Africans, the 2010 Fifa World Cup can play a major role in the lives of many people and at least contribute to overcoming some of the problems. It can play an especially important part in the lives of our youth and contribute towards uniting all South Africans. Let us make this World Cup a truly South African and African affair. We must try our utmost to get the whole nation behind this tournament and to be part of it. There are, however, many pessimists out there who continue to predict that we will fail and not be ready to hold our tournament in 2010. We challenge them, as well as the rest of South Africa, to focus on the positive aspects and all work together in our attempts to stage a successful event. The people of South Africa have great strength and character. We in the IFP believe that if we display the same determination and dedication in staging the World Cup as we did in changing the political situation in our country, then there is no doubt that we will host the best events yet. I thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF SPORT AND RECREATION: Deputy Chairperson, we wish to reiterate what we have been saying about 2010, and that is that when Fifa decided in 2001 that the 2010 World Cup should be held on African soil for the first time, the continent of Africa rejoiced, not only for the love of the game but also in knowing that it will help make this a century of African growth and development.

Our government saw in the opportunity to host the 2010 Fifa Football World Cup a whole range of benefits for South Africa and the African continent. In anticipation of such positive spin-offs, President Mbeki dubbed the 2010 World Cup an African World Cup. The notion of the African World Cup captured the imagination of Fifa, the African countries and our fellow Africans in the diaspora. The notion of an African World Cup has been well received by most South Africans, especially the youth.

The hosting of the 2010 Fifa World Cup also brings a unique opportunity to ensure that the world learns more about the strengths and the opportunities of a country and continent undergoing far-reaching reconstructions and development.

We believe that hosting the 2010 Fifa World Cup affords us the biggest opportunity to banish Afropessimism. Hosting the biggest event in the world will go a long way in strengthening our bond as one nation. It will also boost our image among the nations of the world. Although we do not intend to replicate Germany 2006 or to compete with the Germans, we firmly believe that the same spirit of national pride we saw and experienced in Germany can be achieved and will be achieved in South Africa. That is, if we work together with a unity of purpose.

In 1996 President Mbeki captured Parliament and the world when he delivered the speech in which he declared: “I am an African”. That speech is simply indelible on the mind. ``I am an African’’, the African Renaissance, Nepad and African World Cup 2010 seem to fit into one another. They give us as Africans a rare opportunity to look into the President’s logical, systematic and brilliant mindset.

This characteristic of being an African engenders caring, compassion and sharing. It gives birth to the moral order of empathy, helping others and having feeling for them. The joys of others become the joys of the individual. The shame of the individual becomes the shame of others in that community. In a nutshell, this is ubuntu, a philosophy of the collective; of the community as opposed to individualism.

The 2010 Fifa World Cup in South Africa has been marketed to be intended as an African World Cup. So, the preparations for this tournament, its hosting and events thereafter must bequeath to our nation a legacy we all can be proud of.

Hosting the 2010 Fifa World Cup, we believe, provides our government with a golden opportunity to boost our tourism and our sport tourism industries. It will push our economic development to a higher notch. The tournament assists us to address the infrastructure backlogs we have in our roads, transport, sport facilities, telecommunications and broadcasting networks. Our electricity and water needs will be upgraded and receive a great boost. In a nutshell, hosting the 2010 World Cup will fast-track the attainment of some elements of the 2014 Millennium Development Goals and of Asgisa.

In 2010, 31 countries will converge in South Africa. In terms of languages, followers of the national team will exceed the 32 competitors - South Africa as the 32nd nation. This obviously affords immense opportunity for our young people to learn foreign languages. This, together with the skills they must be trained in, will improve the skills base of our young people. It will also expose them to other cultures and teach them to respect diversity even more. In fact, 2010 will help us fight xenophobia and to unite us as South African people.

Social services like disaster management, public health services, safety and security are already advanced in their plans for 2010. These services will be accessible to our people before and long after 2010.

I am articulating some of these issues that our government took into account when we supported Safa’s bid to host the 2010 Fifa World Cup. We were actually aware, as government, of what the preparations would contribute to our broad plans for transformation and development. We are also alert to the contribution that this programme will make towards social cohesion and towards nation-building and the fostering of national pride.

The challenge for us as South Africans is to make the best of the opportunities offered by hosting the 2010 Fifa World Cup.

On Friday 21 August 2006, the 2010 Fifa World Cup South African Special Measures Bill was unanimously adopted by Parliament. On 24 October 2006, a couple of days ago, President Mbeki opened the kick-off workshop for the 2010 World Cup in Cape Town. Addressing representatives from the South African government, stadium operators, commercial partners, the South African Local Organising Committee and Fifa, President Thabo Mbeki stated:

May the fairest Cape inspire all of us to bring hope in 2010 to millions across the world, utilising the fairest game of them all, football, so that Fifa, Africa and the entire global football family do indeed win in Africa with Africa. 2010 provides South Africa with a golden opportunity. It is kick-off time for real hard work to make the 2010 Fifa World Cup a success.

The plenary session of that kick-off workshop included a presentation by the Minister of Transport, the Minister of Safety and Security and the Deputy Minister of Finance who combined to comprehensively demonstrate the South African government’s unflinching commitment to delivering a magnificent and memorable Fifa Word Cup in 2010.

The Minister of Safety and Security assured and reassured the delegation that “we have the capacity and ability to protect the 2010 World Cup and to create the necessary conditions for safety and security of the entire Fifa family”.

Speaking in representation of the Fifa President, Joseph Blatter, Dr Armos Adamu, who is a member of the Fifa executive committee, was also convinced that the rainbow nation will be up to the task. He said:

Come 2010, the world will salute South Africa for having made the most important single sport event a success.

The final day of the workshop was complemented by the mid-term budget speech which includes R15 billion towards the Fifa World Cup in South Africa. The money is earmarked for projects related to hosting the event, including R8,4 billion on stadium construction and upgrades. The remaining R6,6 billion will be spent on improving our infrastructure.

Let me say to those prophets of doom who thought that we are dragging our feet, that we are not ready and that we will miss out on 2010, I am sorry to disappoint you! We are ready to deliver the best Fifa World Cup ever in 2010.

Let me just turn to the prospects of business in South Africa. Government, the Local Organising Committee and Fifa are sensitive to the notion that 2010 must contribute to Asgisa. What we are doing at this early stage comprises the following: the 2010 event will have 32 teams competing, 64 matches, 200 viewing hours to 40 billion television audiences in 207 countries around the world; three million tickets will be sold in South Africa, and there will be 10 stadia for the tournament and 32 practice venues.

The estimated economic impact of 2010 is direct expenditure of R12,7 billion, and a R21,3 billion contribution to the GDP; it will generate 129 000 jobs, with an additional R7,2 billion to be paid in government taxes and we expect the spectators to spent more that R9,8 billion in that month.

The contribution by Fifa already is R130 million and Safa’s Local Organising Committee received a grant of R3,2 billion and the African Legacy Programme of Fifa amounts to R1,2 billion.

The LOC has agreed that one third of procurement for 2010 will be from SMMEs. The host cities and the DTI are also committed to this agreement.

The obvious areas where the activities are scaling up and where there are lots of opportunities are those that relate to match venues, training venues, the transport infrastructure, the municipal service upgrades, the beautification of our cities’ environments, the preparation of public viewing areas and telecommunications and broadcasting industry.

The LOC will also create opportunities when they procure for the 2010 tournament as a related event. It is obvious that hospitality, catering, human resource recruitment and training and security will be areas where they will use SMMEs. This in fact is agreed upon.

One of the measures undertaken by our government in the past two years was to closely study international best practice on extending the benefits of hosting mega sports events. We had fact-finding missions and observer teams to share experiences with Portugal, Euro 2004, Korea Fifa 2002 and obviously Germany 2006.

As recently as 15 August 2006, we had speakers from Germany and Spain sharing with the cross-section of government, business, media and community stakeholders how best to generate sustainable business benefits from hosting mega events. Germany, for example, undertook a country branding and promotion campaign called Land of Ideas’’ and later on they addedA time to make friends’’. From this basis they marketed their country’s arts and culture, their industrial research and business opportunities. Today the Germans say that they are surprised at the success they have achieved in their 15-month campaign.

South Africa set up a similar initiative more than four years ahead of our own hosting opportunity. Our aim is to leverage all milestones towards

1. We want worldwide exposure in the preliminary 2010 draw, which takes place in 2007. The next event will be during the 2008 inspection visits and the 2010 qualifying tournament. The 2009 Confederations Cup, which is the effective test run of 2010, is the next opportunity, and then 2010 itself sees the Fifa Congress, the opening ceremony, the opening game and the play- offs and the closing ceremony.

All these create the atmosphere for us to market ourselves, to attract more investment, to network and to actively market our campaign: ``South Africa Alive with Possibility’’.

The 2010 Fifa World Cup must leave behind a South Africa that is much better than the one we have now. Both the Millennium Development Goals and the National Development Plans must guide what we do, United in our diversity.

Hosting the Fifa World Cup will never again be afforded to South Africa in our lifetime. Let us, as partners, shoulder together to unlock the true potential of ``South Africa Alive with Possibilities’’.

Let us do as our President says: ``Win in Africa with Africa’’.

Mr B H HOLOMISA: Chairperson and hon members, the 2010 Soccer World Cup indeed presents many opportunities for South Africa’s social and economic development. To this end, we have spoken a great deal about the macroeconomic benefits in terms of infrastructure development and large- scale tourism. Yet, we must not lose sight of the longer-term opportunities that present themselves. Allow me to name but two: Firstly, we can now, like never before, encourage South Africans to take ownership of their urban environments. Specific initiatives regarding littering are urgently required, because the current state of our cities is an embarrassment. Now is the time to start teaching South Africans that these public spaces do, indeed, belong to all of us, and that it is up to all of us to keep them neat and clean. Such action would also respond to the so-called broken- window principle, which is based on the argument that crime is often followed by crime.

Secondly, the 2010 event provides us with an opportunity to improve access for all communities regarding sports and recreation facilities. Across our country, youth from many communities do not have sports facilities and this deprives many talented youth of the opportunity to reach their sporting potential. The lack of sports facilities in disadvantaged communities also deprives young people of productive and safe recreation, and extracurricular activities. These are the types of objectives that may not appear flashy and impressive at first glance, but that will deliver real benefits and rewards for the entire country long after people have forgotten the 2010 event.

Sihlalo, ekugqibeleni mandikucebise, Mhlekazi: abantu boMzantsi bambonile uTrevor ekhupha izigidi zezigidi zokuzimasa lo mnyhadala. Kusekho iindawo ke ezisahleleleke kakhulu, endicinga ukuba bekufanele ukuba ngoku xa ubunokufaka umoya kwezinye iiKomiti zeMicimbi yamaSebe, nizame ukuba nincedise ekwenzeni izinto ebeziza kwenziwa ngowama-2014.

Makusetyenziswe owama-2010 njengonyaka oza kubangela ukuba ngoku kukhawuleziswe ezaa zinto ze-Asgisa, nezaa nkqubo zika-2014 ukuze abantu bangathi emva kowama-2010 babukele amabala emidlalo kuphela, kodwa babe beqonda ukuba, tyhini, njengokuba behlala eSoweto nje okanye eKhayelitsha, iidolophu zabo ziyadibana nezixeko ezikhulu!”

Siza kuhlazeka apha ngowama-2010 abantu besathi, “Hayi, ukuba ufuna ukuya kubona iSoweto, uza kuhamba umgama.” Ubone nawe ukuba kusekho lo msantsa wabantu abaphakamileyo, nabahleli kamnandi, kanti aba babehleli kwezaa ndawo zihlelelekileyo basathi, ‘tshaketshe’ oko kwakudala. Kukho abasathi, “Nyakenye.” Ngoko ke ndicinga ukuba ziyafuna ukuba zidityaniswe ezi nkqubo.

ISebe lezeMisebenzi kaRhulumente, lona kuyafuneka ukuba kudityanwe nalo. Asikho isizathu esibangela ukuba bahambe, begrumba iindlela apha, besithi benza izisetyenziswa zoluntu, batsho bengashiyi nebala lemidlalo kwiindawo zoluntu. Kanti ezi nkampani zokwakha, zinikwe iithenda bekufanele ukuba xa zithe zazifumana kuthiwe, “Uza kwakha ibala lemidlalo ke phaya.”

Abantu baza kuqala bayixabise ke ngoku le nto yokuba ngenene owama-2010 uze nento ebaphilisayo. Bendiya kwenza njalo ukuba beniya kukhe nindinike ukuba ndiniphathe nje nokuba ngunyaka omnye, ndinilawule makwedini, ngoba ndiyabona anilawuleki. [Kwahlekwa.][Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, in conclusion, let me give you some advice: The people of South Africa have seen Trevor Manuel dishing out millions and millions of rands to support this festival. There are places that are still in an appallingly poor condition and with regard to which, in my opinion, if you had been able to convince other portfolio committees, you should be trying to assist in doing those things that were going to be done in 2014.

Let 2010 be used as a year that will speed up the Asgisa projects together with 2014 events in order that people must not, after 2010, say that they have only watched the sporting activities, but they should acknowledge that as they live in Soweto or in Khayelitsha, there is developmental parity between towns and cities.

We will get embarrassed here in 2010 when people say, “If you want to visit Soweto you will have to travel long distances.” You will also see for yourself that there is still some disparity between the haves who have been living in good conditions, and the have-nots who have been living in poor conditions from time immemorial. I therefore believe that these programmes should be combined.

There is a need for consultation with the Department of Public Works, because there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for it to dig roads, claiming that they are developing infrastructure without building any sports fields in the community. Because these construction companies have won tenders, they need to be instructed that there is a spot for the construction of a sports field.

People will start respecting 2010 for the better lives that it shall have brought to the people. I would do the same if you were to afford me the opportunity to rule you even if it were for a year because I can see that you are ungovernable. [Laughter.] [Applause.]]

Ms M W MAKGATE: Chairperson, hon members, the hosting of the 2010 World Cup provides the opportunity for South Africa to showcase that it can host international events as we did with the two World Cups, and those were for both rugby and cricket. We have shown the world that we are more than capable, and have organisational skills to host a wonderful event. I will be failing in my duty if I do not also mention the wonderful people of South Africa. Of course, we will be representing the African continent, as a continent, and not only South Africa. Most of all it will provide a lasting legacy for the citizens of South Africa long after 2010, as we did in the previous events, as mentioned above.

Puo ya me e tla ikaega thata ka loeto lo Komiti ya Metshameko le Boitapoloso e neng e le tsere go ya kwa KwaZulu-Natal, kwa kgaolong ya eThekwini, nngwe ya metse e go tla tshwarelwang metshameko ya 2010 teng. Maitlhomomagolo a loeto lo, e ne e le go lebelela dipaakanyo. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[My speech will focus largely on the trip undertaken by the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation to KwaZulu-Natal in Durban, one of the cities to host the 2010 Soccer World Cup. The main objective of the trip was to assess the preparations.]

I will be failing the women of this country if I do not indicate that at eThekwini Municipality the driving force behind this massive project is a woman. EThekwini Municipality has already started with the construction of the stadium. This is a positive move that shows that women can lead if given a chance to prove themselves. In the following hosting cities, namely Cape Town, eThekwini, and Nelson Mandela Bay, women are the leading project managers.

It is clear that these project managers are doing a very good job, which also shows capabilities. We need to do more to make sure that the government policy on women’s empowerment does not only exist in theory but also in practice, which means we need more women in construction phases. We then call upon other hosting cities to follow the example of the mentioned cities not only as leading project managers, but also in other areas of need.

When it comes to the building of the stadiums, the eThekwini Municipality has already begun preliminary work on construction of the King Senzangakhona stadium, which will have a capacity of 70 000 seats and parking for 1 000 cars. This stadium has the capability of being extended to accommodate future international events. This shows that as South Africans we are serious about the 2010 event. It is clear that when bidding to host the said event, we were already prepared to move on with the work that we were then given.

I must indicate that in all nine hosting cities expertise, material and labour will be used to create job opportunities for local people. According to a socioeconomic analysis, the development of the Senzangakhona stadium will generate R4,3 billion in growth and development programmes over a period of 14 years. Whereas there are many ways of promoting national identity, pride and social cohesion, ultimately it is concrete action in pursuit of common objectives that will strengthen the national sense of belonging. It is clear that these events are a building block of national unity irrespective of race, gender and so on, as we have seen what happened with the German World Cup. All nations were one irrespective of which country they were coming from. In this regard, efforts to build united action around common goals should be pursued around Asgisa.

With regard to safety and security, as different government departments have sent guarantees to Fifa, the Department of Safety and Security will ensure that general safety and personal protection at airports, hotels, training grounds and media centres is guaranteed. Experience learnt from Germany is that disaster management centres should be in place and operating accordingly. There should also be operation centres, additional policing and the installation of CCTV cameras to increase surveillance and safety.

In Germany they had a slogan, “A time to make friends’, which brought nations together, and as South Africa we can have our own slogan that can bring us together as a nation and welcome visitors to our country.

Mo bojanaleng, sengwe se re tshwanetseng go se lebelela ka kelotlhoko ke tlhokomelo ya tlhago. Go tla nna le mananeo a go ruta batho botlhokwa jwa tlhago. Se se tla fa Aforika Borwa tšhono ya go oketsa dipalo tsa bajanala mo nageng. E tla gogela babeeletsi le go tlhabolola loago la naga ya rona. (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[One thing that we need to pay attention to regarding tourism, is nature conservation. There should be programmes to teach people about the importance of nature conservation. This will give South Africa a chance to increase the number of tourists visiting the country. This will also attract investment opportunities which may result in socioeconomic development in our country.]

Regarding volunteers, there will be two types of volunteer groups, namely Fifa volunteers inside the stadiums and volunteers from municipalities. We should also appeal to the loving South Africans to come and volunteer as we have seen in Germany. We, as South Africans, should be patriotic towards our country, and not only look for money, as we can see in some other areas of our country. We must show the world that we really love our country.

We may as well open our hearts to SADC countries and citizens also to volunteer, as it is an African event. This will also assist us to deal with xenophobia in our country. United we stand, and divided we fall. We are calling on all groups across the nation to volunteer their time and services to benefit the country. Be ambassadors of our country and make this country proud of you, and the continent will be proud of you. You will have made a mark on the world that you will never forget.

In conclusion, I am calling all South Africans to rise to the occasion, build unity for action of all nations, and enable South Africa to host a successful event. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr H B CUPIDO: Chairperson, South Africa has to date been the proud host of various international and continental sports events to which colleagues referred in this debate.

With these great events, the citizens of our country revealed unto each other and the world that South Africans are positive, generous, loving, forgiving and wonderful people. If we think back, we will recall the dancing in the streets and the noise of car hooters as South Africa took the World Cup in 1995. The beauty of it all is that even if South Africa had not won, the country would still have celebrated along with the winner.

If World Cup rugby could have aroused such excitement and attention in a country where the majority of the inhabitants have been playing soccer in their backyards, in the streets, and, in fact, on any available space almost from the time they could walk, how much more will South Africa’s hosting of the Fifa Soccer World Cup not make its mark as a symbol of unity?

The first African World Cup in 2010 will prove, once again, that international sporting events can unite those who have lived in conflict with each other, and that sport can serve as a catalyst to break down social and racial barriers in our country. Thank you.

Mr M M DIKGACWI: Madam Chair, hon Deputy Minister and hon Members of Parliament …

…uyabona Njengele, ukuba ufuna ukuba ukhe ubolekwe kuza kufuneka ulinde side sibuye; sisaya phambili. [… you see, General, if you want to be given a chance, you will have to wait until we come back because we are still moving forward.]

During the entire short period of our liberation, we have emphasised the message of a better life for all. This was not accidental. This is a central objective that we will continue to pursue during the years ahead.

We have gone on further to call for the building of a people’s contract to advance this goal, to ensure that all our people act in unity to achieve the reconstruction and development of our country so that it becomes the people-centred society we all want it to be.

We have to persist in the struggle to ensure that all our people live decent, dignified lives in a humane and caring society. Obviously, it is easy to write and utter words such as this; the challenge is to do all the things that are necessary and possible to give them practical meaning.

Among other things, this means that we must, together, defeat poverty and underdevelopment in our country, and the 2010 Soccer World Cup is, amongst others, a catalyst in the attainment of this objective. It means that we must together ensure that all our people lead lives characterised by human dignity. We have to end the scourges of racism and sexism that continue to afflict millions of our people. Whether as perpetrators or victims, we must give practical meaning to a people-centred society.

However, we cannot afford to have fellow South Africans, when they present their papers abroad, speaking negatively about South Africa, and even doubting the capability of South Africa to host a successful World Cup.

You see, the hon Tony Leon was speaking at Oxford University over the weekend, as reported in The Argus. He said, and I quote:

The rich people are good for the environment. They have fewer children. They can afford cleaner, efficient technologies, and use resources more efficiently. They don’t cut down trees for firewood; they don’t kill one animal for food, and they have the time and the money to enjoy and protect nature.

According to him, the poor disadvantaged people do the opposite, and that is what he said at Oxford University.

What we have done and will do must give us sufficient cause to stand proud among the community of nations as a contributor to the common global struggle to build a better life for the ordinary people of our country, and the rest of the world, who constitute the majority of humanity.

We will host a successful World Cup: rest assured, hon members. This must also say to the international community that it was not wrong to choose our country as the venue for the 2010 Soccer World Cup that will meet here to contend for the prestigious trophy, which will directly impact on the inhuman conditions of the poor and on the improvement of human conditions.

The SA Football Association should note that we have not performed as well as we think we should have. When we perform badly, it affects the national morale in ways that many of us can neither hide nor deny. The R60 million given by Fifa for the development of Bafana Bafana should accordingly be utilised, or else …

…baza kuva ngathi. [… we are going to give them directions.]

Whatever else we may say, we must as South Africans admit that, like everybody in this world, we are passionate about our sport, and soccer in particular, especially the majority of South Africans.

It is also clear that sport serves as an important factor in terms of building social cohesion in our country, and reinforcing the process towards the consolidation of shared patriotism. It would seem clear that in the period since our liberation we have not paid as much attention to the development of sport, particularly soccer, in our country as we should have.

It is true that because of the many urgent tasks we have faced to address the legacy of colonialism and apartheid, we did not have time to properly focus on the challenge of the development of soccer in our country. This surely has to be one of the tasks to which we must dedicate our efforts in building a proud soccer team that will make us all proud during the 2010 World Cup.

Our government has taken new steps to respond to these problems. Safa should do the same.

Bayeke ukungqendeva, bazixakekise ngezopolitiko. Sithi oosopolitiko abaza kupolitika, hayi bona. [They should not relax and engage themselves in politics. We politicians will do politics, not them.] We must also deal with the reality that Bafana Bafana’s development consists of more than its direct preparation for productive work. It also involves the development of our youth, as well-rounded human beings enjoying the necessary spiritual and physical environment.

The 2010 Soccer World Cup in South Africa can and must play an important part in this regard. We have, in the past, spoken about the need for us to do everything we can to encourage the world to come to us.

Fortunately, the national and provincial governments have responded to this, and progress is impressive, except for the confused local government leadership of the Western Cape on the issue of Green Point Stadium.

We will continue the development after all. We are the majority, but it is also true that we have not yet succeeded in building national patriotism, especially in those that benefited in the past …

… amagusha amhlophe, oohlohlesakhe. [… white people, the capitalists.]

We should continuously raise the matter in the context of rebuilding a sense of national identity among the black people which three and a half centuries of colonialism and apartheid had sought to destroy to turn the masses into an instrument in the hands of the dominant minority.

Engagement with all those standing at the wheel will be by intervention with regard to efforts to destroy the negative stereotype of black people that the white minority domination has sought to cultivate so as to deny these black people their history, culture, identity and self-worth.

The 2010 World Cup will mend the dented fabric of our society and assist with the appalling infrastructure among our historically disadvantaged communities, as well as with the amount of infrastructure for all South Africans. It is also in this way that we will be able to meet the challenge of building a truly South African society. This is also the only option available to us to field the winning teams that contribute to the cultivation of a new patriotism.

The international sportsmen and sportswomen who have visited our country during the last 11 years have done much, directly and indirectly, to inspire the love of sport among our youth. The outstanding sportsmen that will be participating in the 2010 Soccer World Cup will do the same to demonstrate that we truly value the fact that they came to be among us and in a bad situation with a devastating history, as others involved in other fields of human activity have done.

We must respond in a serious and sustained manner to the important challenge of the 2010 Soccer World Cup in South Africa. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr R B BHOOLA: Chairperson, with the great event just four years away, tensions are up to get South Africa ready to host the best Fifa event ever.

However, South Africa has greater concerns on its agenda. Its nation remains hindered by the conditions inherited from the apartheid regime. While we certainly have achieved transformation in legislation, and broken down many of the barriers erected by that era, traces are still found in the fibre of many South Africans.

How do we address that? Transformation shall not only be a governmental process, endorsed by the private sector, but should involve all of South Africa.

The Fifa World Cup is indeed an opportunity to do so. We have the opportunity to earn the title of a rainbow nation beyond the variety of people, and also to represent the unity of a variety of people.

Our efforts and spending for the Fifa World Cup shouldn’t have room for criticism. All departments and all spheres of government need to boost efforts to transform South Africa to eradicate poverty, and to develop, grow and unite. The event, indeed, is to be taken to our municipalities and to our communities who should participate in getting South Africa all up and ready. The Fifa World Cup is not about having the best stadiums and hosting a grand affair. Fifa is about the opportunity to strengthen our nation.

This morning’s news reports that the South African Institute for Race Relations’s latest statistics indicate that South Africa’s murder rate might have dropped by 40%, but remains 15 times more than the USA and 46 times more than the UK. It is a serious issue like this that we need to seriously address before 2010.

We have so many programmes in place to assist small and medium enterprises, but how many success stories do we have? We need to move beyond policy and programme development, and we need to get into the mechanics to ensure that the result we want to achieve depends on the mechanics of co-operative governance, public-private relationships and community endorsement.

When we look at a country like India, we find that most impoverished areas have technology, even if it is battery operated. How, when we look at rural areas among our underprivileged communities with regard to development, is it that traces of development, using IT as an example, remain alien?

The Fifa event is our opportunity to transform this by turning alien to development and creating accessibility, in the comfort of homes, even if it is in the informal settlements. The MF strongly believes that progress is defined by what developments are made in these areas.

We need to celebrate and realise the value sport and recreation holds for South Africa, and the value the event has brought to South Africa. [Time expired.]

Mr B M KOMPHELA: Chairperson, hon members, thank you to all who contributed to today’s debate. Hon Masango knows that when this discussion took place it was important that we had to have this kind of debate. It was important for us to communicate a message to the people of this country, as Parliament and as members of the committee. Even if a ruler is straight, our people out there are saying: Where is this information that would come from that National Assembly to tell us how we are progressing and are we still going to meet the targets? That is why this kind of debate was discussed at the committee level and we requested to have this kind of debate. [Interjections.]

Hon Masango, abantu basemakhaya. [Hon Masango, people in rural areas.]

The Minister, the Deputy Minister and all other Ministers that are involved in the Local Organising Committee have committed themselves that this World Cup must be enjoyed by even somebody who stays in Mqanduli and also in a place which we call “Matlapa a nkwalet[s]e”

For the people in that place there will be fun parks, there will be places that are going to be identified by all sectors of the departments to make sure that those people are able to go and have fun and enjoy this international festival of football in this country. I am sure the commitment that has been demonstrated so far has left us with no doubt that there will be those kinds of things where our people are going to enjoy themselves and benefit from this world-class football competition in our country.

You are right to raise a concern around the team that has to be built. We are happy and you know, as well as we do, that R70 million has been appropriated by Fifa to Safa to build a team that is going to raise our hopes and be able to take us closer as a country so that we can be united and be supporting this country. The most important element of this World Cup is social cohesion, is nation-building, is uniting our people around something like sports, so that at any other time we feel that we can be united on such a matter.

I’d like to really say thank you to everybody. Committees and members of the different political parties that are in Sport and Recreation demonstrated once more that we have robust discussions, but the Soccer World Cup is something that all of us are united about; we cannot fail and we dare not fail. We are going to make it a successful World Cup and that is the message that comes from all political parties across the spectrum, who will carry that up until 2010. Thank you. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The House adjourned at 18:40. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly

The Speaker

1. Message from National Council of Provinces to National Assembly in respect of Bills passed by Council and transmitted to Assembly

   1) Bills, subject to proposed amendments, passed by National Council of Provinces on 15 November 2006 and transmitted for consideration of Council’s proposed amendments:

   a) South African Drug-Free Sport Amendment Bill [B 7B – 2006]
      (National Assembly – sec 75) (for proposed amendments, see
      Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports, 9 November 2006,
      p 2593).
   
   
      The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Sport
      and Recreation of the National Assembly for a report on the
      amendments proposed by the Council.
   
   b) Firearms Control Amendment Bill [B 12B – 2006] (National
      Assembly – sec 75) (for proposed amendments, see Announcements,
      Tablings and Committee Reports, 14 November 2006, p 2718).
   
   
      The Bill has been referred to the Portfolio Committee on Safety
      and Security of the National Assembly for a report on the
      amendments proposed by the Council.
   

2. Referral to Committees of papers tabled

This referral replaces item 2 under “Referral to Committees of papers
tabled” on page 2635 of the Announcements, Tablings and Committee
Reports of 14 November 2006:

1.      The following papers are referred to the Portfolio Committee on
    Water Affairs and Forestry for consideration and report:

      a) Agreement between the Republic of Botswana, the Republic of
         Mozambique, the Republic of South Africa and the Republic of
         Zimbabwe on the Establishment of the Limpopo Watercourse
         Commission, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the
         Constitution, 1996.

      b) Explanatory Memorandum on the Agreement between the Republic of
         Botswana, the Republic of Mozambique, the Republic of South
         Africa and the Republic of Zimbabwe on the Establishment of the
         Limpopo.

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson

 a) Report of the Youth Parliament held on 28 – 29 June 2006, Old
    Assembly Chamber, Parliament;


 b) Report of the Women’s Parliament held on 03 – 04 August 2006, Old
    Assembly Chamber, Parliament; and


 c) Report of the People’s Assembly held on 14 – 15 September 2006,
    Oudtshoorn.


    Copies of the reports are available from office of Clerk of the
    Papers and on Parliament’s website www.parliament.gov.za

1. The Minister of Finance

 a) Agreement between the Government of the Republic of South Africa
    and the Government of the People’s Republic of China on Mutual
    Administrative Assistance in Customs Matters, tabled in terms of
    section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.


 b) Explanatory Memorandum to the Agreement between the Government of
    the Republic of South Africa and the Government of the People’s
    Republic of China on Mutual Administrative Assistance in Customs
    Matters.

1. The Minister of Transport

 a) Airlift Strategy 2006.


 b) Draft strategy to Accelerate Public Transport Implementation via a
    WIN-WIN-WIN partnership between Government, Existing Operators and
    Labour.


 c) National Road Safety Strategy 2006 Onwards.


 d) Transport Action Plan for 2010.


 e) Road Infrastructure Strategic Framework for South Africa (RISFSA).

1. The Minister for the Public Service and Administration

 a) Memorandum of Understanding between the Republic of Rwanda through
    its Ministry of Public Service and Labour and the Republic of South
    Africa through its Ministry for the Public Service and
    Administration on Co-operation in the Field of Civil Service and
    Public Administration (1 November 2002).


 b) Memorandum of Understanding between the United Nations and the
    Government of the Republic of South Africa through its Centre for
    Public Service Innovations relating to Co-operation in the United
    Nations On-line Network of Regional Institution for Capacity
    Building in Public Administration and Finance (20 July 2004).


 c) Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the
    Democratic Republic of the Congo through its Ministry of Public
    Service and the Government of the Republic of South Africa through
    its Ministry for the Public Service and Administration on Co-
    operation in the Field of Public Administration (31 August 2004).


 d) Agreement between Sweden through the Swedish International
    Development Co-operation Agency and the Government of the Republic
    of South Africa on Development Co-operation concerning Public
    Service Support in the Democratic Republic of Congo (12 April
    2005).


 e) Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the
    Democratic Republic of the Congo and the Government of Sweden and
    the Government of the Republic of South Africa on Co-operation in
    the Area of Public Service and Administration (29 April 2005); and


 f) Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the Republic
    of India and the Government of the Republic of South Africa on Co-
    operation in the Field of Governance, Administration and other
    Related Areas (12 June 2006).

COMMITTEE REPORTS

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology on the Annual Reports and Financial Statements 2005 / 2006 of the Department of Science and Technology and Entities, dated 14 November 2006:

    The Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology, having
    considered and examined the Annual Reports of the Department of
    Science and Technology (DST), the National Research Foundation
    (NRF), the Africa Institute of South Africa (AISA), the South
    African Council for Natural Scientific Professions (SACNASP),
    TSHUMISANO, the Academy of Science of South Africa (ASSAf), the
    Council for Scientific and Industrial Research (CSIR), the Human
    Science Research Council  (HSRC) and the National Advisory
    Council of Innovation (NACI) accountable to it, reports that it
    has concluded its deliberations thereon.
   

2. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security on the Firearms Control Amendment Bill [B 12B - 2006] (National Assembly- sec 75), dated 15 November 2006:

    The Portfolio Committee on Safety and Security, having
    considered the Firearms Control Amendment Bill [B 12B - 2006]
    (National Assembly - sec 75) and proposed amendments of the
    National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings and
    Committee Reports, 14 November 2006, p 2718), referred to the
    Committee, reports the Bill with amendments [B 12C - 2006].
   

Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation on the South African Drug-Free Sport Amendment Bill [B 7B - 2006] (National Assembly- sec 75), dated 15 November 2006:

    The Portfolio Committee on Sport and Recreation, having
    considered the South African Drug-Free Sport Amendment Bill [B
    7B - 2006] (National Assembly - sec 75) and proposed amendments
    of the National Council of Provinces (Announcements, Tablings
    and Committee Reports, 9 November 2006, p 2593), referred to the
    Committee, reports the Bill with amendments [B 7C - 2006].
   

Report to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Water Affairs and Forestry on the Agreement between the Republic of Botswana, the Republic of Mozambique, the Republic of Zimbabwe and the Republic of South Africa for the establishment of the Limpopo Watercourse Commission, dated 15 November 2006:

    The Portfolio Committee on Water Affairs and Forestry, having
    considered the request for approval by Parliament of the
    Agreement between the Republic of Botswana, the Republic of
    Mozambique, the Republic of Zimbabwe and the Republic of South
    Africa for the establishment of the Limpopo Watercourse
    Commission, referred to it, recommends that the House, in terms
    of section 231(2) of the Constitution, approve the said
    Agreement.
   

Request to be considered.

1. Report of the Portfolio Committee on Finance on the progress report from the Special Pensions Board on the implementation of the Special Pensions Amendment Act, No 28, 2005 (Act No 69 of 1996, as amended), dated 15 November 2006.

    The Portfolio Committee on Finance exercises oversight over the
    National Treasury in line with the constitutional mandate set
    out in section 55(2) of the Constitution. In line with its
    oversight responsibility the Portfolio Committee requested the
    Special Pensions Board to provide a progress report to it on
    Friday, 10 November 2006, with respect to the implementation of
    the Special Pension Amendments Act 28, 2005 (Act No 69 of 1996,
    as amended).
   

   1. The object of the Act is to amend the Special Pensions Act No 69 of 1996, to provide for the following:

      a. The lapsing of the rights to pensions and survivor’s benefits on 31 December 2006; b. The introduction of a surviving spouse’s pension, an orphan’s pension, and a funeral benefit; c. To regulate benefit payments to spouses and dependants; d. To regulate the reconsideration of determined cases; e. To provide for the repayment of any benefit paid to a person that was not entitled to that benefit; f. To further regulate the dissolution of the Board and the Review Board; and g. To amend Schedule 3 of the Act, to include Schedule 4 in the Act.

   2. The Special Pensions Board provided the Committee with a progress report on the implementation of the Special Pensions Amendment Act, No 28, 2005 (Act No 69 of 1996, as amended), that highlighted the following:

      a. The national awareness campaign undertakes to ensure that all who qualify should benefit; b. The number of beneficiaries reached during this process; c. The number of applications received and approved; d. Dissatisfaction with the fact that the qualification criteria were not changed; and e. Enquiries as to the progress with respect to the implementation of the under 35 resolution.

   3. The Special Pensions Board also highlighted the following challenges faced by the Board relating to implementation of the Act as amended:

a. Obtaining applications before the closing date of 31 December 2006; b. Increased applications that highlighted the capacity constraints to screen and process applications; c. False claims received that required investigations that is still ongoing; d. Backlog in reviewing applications; and e. Human resource constraints with high staff turnover.

Conclusion

Arising from the progress report received from the Special Pensions Board with respect to the implementation of the Act as amended it has emerged, that among others, the issue of the under 35’s still remains unresolved, despite the adoption of the Committee Report by the House (see ATC, 8 November 2005, p 2567 and Minutes of proceeding, 11 November 2005).

Recommendations:

a. That the Board within 30 days after the closing date for application furnish the Committee with a comprehensive report on the outcome of this process as set out in paragraphs 1, 2, and 3. b. That the House request the Leader of Government Business to provide feedback on the adoption of Resolution (see ATC, 8 November 2005, p 2567 and Minutes of proceedings, 11 November 2005) with particular reference to co-ordinating the implementation of programmes which will provide education, skills and other measures with regard to integrating these individuals back into society. Report to be considered.