THURSDAY, 18 MAY 2006

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          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

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The Council met at 14:08.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE COUNCIL: I would like to welcome the Minister of Trade and Industry and the Minister of Labour to the session today, and thank you for being here. Does any member wish to give notice of a motion?

Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I will move on behalf of the IFP:

That the Council –

 1) notes with sadness that two prominent taxi owners, Molefe Rapodile,
    Chairman of the Gauteng Taxi Alliance, and Ricky Mohoaduba have been
    killed recently;

(2) acknowledges that violence in the taxi industry is an ongoing problem and that many of the murders remain unsolved; and

(3) calls upon the relevant authorities to use all the resources at their disposal and work together with people within the industry to crack down on this type of violence in order to stop these senseless killings from continuing and to bring the perpetrators of these crimes to book.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL


                           (Policy debate)

Debate on Vote No 32 – Trade and Industry:

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Madam Chair, even though they are jeering you, I would like to greet you. [Laughter.]

Members of the National Council of Provinces, I do not know if we have any members of the executive councils of provinces, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, in my recent budget address to the National Assembly I said that South Africa’s current impressive economic performance is inspiring to us as a nation.

All key indicators ranging from those for business confidence to consumer confidence are at an all-time high and the Gross Domestic Product growth of close to 5% has not been achieved in decades. We cautioned, however, that any modern economy functions in cycles and that the current challenge was therefore to plan appropriately to achieve quality and sustained growth for the years ahead. We then reported on various aspects of our strategy that seek to confront these challenges.

I wish to use this opportunity today to assure you that in the course of our planning we have, and will remain, fully cognisant of the threats and opportunities that result from regional disparities that are the legacy of apartheid and its economic distortions.

These distortions threaten to lock many regions in a self-perpetuating process of underdevelopment and marginalisation with adverse social consequences for the great majority of our people. It is therefore incumbent on us deliberately, systematically and directly to address these distortions and to seek to achieve balanced economic development in our country.

We must seize the opportunity that this period of high growth presents to ensure that the potential and capacity of the regions can be fully harnessed to the benefit of the nation as a whole. This requires bold action and implementation.

As part of government’s overall strategy to grow the economy in the short, medium and long term, the department is finalising an industrial strategy, which we intend to present at the July Cabinet lekgotla. We have drafted this strategy on the basis of both our own experience as well as that of other developing countries. Our research indicates that countries that have industrialised most rapidly had implemented large-scale, robust industrial policies that were closely integrated with related policies.

The main thrust of our industrial policy is to diversify our economy so that there is less reliance on commodities. We are well aware of the dangers of relying on the performance of commodities, which are cyclical in nature, to determine our future.

The industrial policy will focus on strengthening our high growth sectors such as the automobile, aerospace and business process outsourcing sectors. We will also pay attention to the sectors in distress such as clothing and textiles. We are actively engaged with manufacturers, unions and retailers in the sector to finalise a growth strategy in the sector.

As our industrial strategy aims to co-ordinate activity around the development of industry and services, it requires complementary interventions directed at the very regional economic realities I have spoken of.

In the post-1994 period government strategies and priorities did not give sufficiently focused and deep attention to the challenge of regional industrial development other than through initiatives such as our industrial development zones and spatial development initiatives.

With the passage of time we have derived significant learning from these initiatives. Combined with the imperatives of the National Spatial Development Perspective endorsed by Cabinet in 2003, our approach is to draft a specific regional industrial development strategy, which we have done, with a view to shaping regional patterns of economic development and enabling all provinces to share in national economic growth equitably. MECs present here today will recall that at the last Minmec meeting we agreed that each province will have an opportunity to engage fully with the department on the draft plan and we will begin do so tomorrow at our next meeting.

In brief, our draft regional strategy recognises that deep and persistent regional disparities act as a constraint to economic development. The draft strategy therefore focuses on lagging regions and small towns with limited economic bases. In addition, we have focused on areas which have experienced a significant downturn in their leading sectors, for example, mining or industrial activity. Secondly, the strategy focuses on optimising the functioning of local economies by identifying and addressing key obstacles. A number of institutional and infrastructure interventions are therefore proposed with the view of enabling regions to better access markets and resources and to attain their full economic potential.

In addition, the focus is on regional interventions that are envisaged and which are aimed at strengthening the supply side of the economy by improving skills, promoting entrepreneurship and enhancing research and development capabilities. In other words, we are adopting an approach that encourages the building of sustainable capacity at a local level, skills development and innovation facilitation.

In setting out what we will do in future we are necessarily drawing from lessons learnt from the implementation of current programmes. One of the pillars of the regional industrial strategy, and an area where we are ready to effect immediate improvements, is the management of industrial development zones.

In our view, the IDZ programme is beginning to bear fruit, as evidenced by the rising investments that are both already committed and proposed. The new approach to IDZs will address a number of areas that are critical to the success of the programme, key amongst which is establishing a proper framework of co-operation between and within the three spheres of government. In this regard, clear guidelines are foreseen wherein the respective roles of the Department of Trade and Industry and other actors will be clarified and strengthened.

The policy will also ensure greater alignment between the IDZs and the broad thrust of our industrial policy. In line with the recommendations from IDZ stakeholders, the department will play a more active role in the funding and oversight of existing IDZs. In this regard the department will also proactively work with provinces that have identified potential new IDZ locations in order to help them develop viable business plans necessary for designating new IDZs.

In view of this, I can announce that the existing moratorium on the designation of new IDZs is lifted. However, I must stress again that, consistent with our experience of previous initiatives, we will take all necessary precautions to ensure that sufficient preparatory work has been done in the areas of sectoral investment focus, funding and governance before an IDZ is designated. Hon members, you will know that the Department of Trade and industry also works on enterprise development in the provinces and I wish briefly to reflect on this work.

Access to finance by small enterprises has been a thorny issue since the adoption of the White Paper on the Development and Promotion of Small Business in the country. A number of efforts have been made in this area but nonsegmentation of the market led to very skewed results.

Having taken these challenges into consideration I can report with regard to black economic empowerment that we have placed the emphasis on increased access to finance for black entrepreneurs.

In the National Assembly I reported that the National Empowerment Fund was open for business and that a new CEO and board had been appointed. I am pleased to report that transactions to the value of R491 million have been approved for the period up until the end of March 2006.

Whilst the bulk of the transactions are still concentrated in Gauteng and Western Cape, transactions to the value of R298 million were approved for enterprises based in the Eastern Cape, the Free State and Limpopo. This gives us confidence that the path we have chosen will enable us to reach the objectives we have set in this area, but, clearly, there is a lot more work that needs to be done.

In establishing the Apex Fund, the department seeks to remove institutional constraints on successful microlending and the mobilisation of communities. The fund distributes loans of up to R10 000, serving the microfinance market. This fund has been launched in six provinces and has disbursed R10 million in loans through microcredit outlets. Seven additional partner organisations will be ready to disburse by June 2006, and the fund is set to expand its business partner portfolio to 50 partner organizations by the end of the year. This will enable it to disburse its full allocation of R80 million by the end of the year. A critical component of ensuring that is to improve the readiness of partner organisations and build the capacity of partner organisations.

In February 2006 Khula and business partners created an instrument for small, medium and micro enterprise start-up funding, focusing on the provision of loans of R10 000 to R250 000 to black entrepreneurs. This start-up fund is up and running in three provinces and has disbursed an amount of R6 million in two months, demonstrating further progress in filling this critical funding gap. In addition to that, the Khula Credit Indemnity Scheme has also been successfully revised with the commercial banks and this has been increased from 80% to 90%, but the own contribution amount has also been reduced from 10% to 2,5%.

You will recall that in the National Assembly we reported that the IDC had allocated R1 billion for small and medium enterprises in different sectors. I am pleased to report that 54 projects to the value of R315 million have already been approved. There is also a healthy pipeline of projects in excess of R500 million and it is envisaged that the entire amount of R1 billion will be utilised by 1 December 2006. We are working closely with our development finance institutions to ensure that there is a greater geographic spread of these investments, as only 27% of the IDC financing went outside Gauteng, KwaZulu-Natal and Western Cape. There has, however, been some improvement in the allocation to the Limpopo and the Eastern Cape provinces. Investments in the Eastern Cape of R41 million resulted in 216 jobs; and investments of R31,3 million were made in Limpopo, creating 1 176 jobs.

We cannot address the issue of enterprise development in isolation from the work we are doing on black economic empowerment. I do want to confirm to the House that the work on concluding the second phase of the codes is under way and we hope to complete that work by the middle of this year, by June or July, and that later in the year we will be constituting the National Advisory Council which will advise us on the implementation of broad-based Black Economic Empowerment strategy as well as legislation.

We are impressed by the high quality and thoughtfulness of the many submissions that we are receiving from the private sector. We intend to take on board a number of the recommendations that we have received, as this will ensure that the BEE codes of practice are informed by and enjoy the full buy-in and commitment of both black and white business. We hope, as I said earlier on, to conclude this work by the end of July.

Let me indicate that another area of work that we are paying attention to is the area of consumer protection. We have developed a policy in this regard and are in the process of developing legislation that would regulate the issue of consumer rights as it relates to the transactions that citizens enter into with businesses as well as with government. This is the area of work which Deputy Minister Thabethe, I hope, is going to be speaking to.

Let me say, Chairperson, in conclusion that the role of the provinces is critical in ensuring that our regional strategy is successful. We have indeed made much progress in the past decade, and we need to take our economic growth and development to a deeper, more regionally targeted level. In doing so we will assist millions of people to share in our growing economy and use their potential to sustain and accelerate that growth, and would like to commit the Department of Trade and Industry to that objective. Thank you very much.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): We thank the hon Minister for his input in the debate; and after the oversight on my part, I would like to welcome to this House today the Deputy Ministers of Trade and Industry, hon E Thabethe as well as Dr R Davies.

We welcome you. I now call the hon N D Ntwanambi, Chairperson of the Select Committee on Economic Affairs. Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Deputy Chairperson, the hon Minister, hon Deputy Ministers and hon members and comrades, our committee had an opportunity to go through the proposed budget, and posed questions where necessary.

Without being the praise singer of the department, our committee is happy that the programmes of the department are for the poor and all the designated groups. For our country to achieve its goals this department has to work and sweat. They lead the government in making sure that there is growth in the economy.

We also know that the current economic imperatives and challenges of broadening participation will contribute to the government’s efforts to address unemployment and poverty.

Lungisani iindlebe ngoba ndiza kuthetha isiXhosa. Xa ujonga kweli sebe, ulibona linamasetyana kodwa linye, yaye ikwa lilo nelikhokela uAsgisa oyinkqubo encedisa isebe ukuba licebe ngcono imibono neenjongo zalo.

Eyona nto ibalulekileyo kukuba eli sebe, kwiminyaka nje elishumi liye likhula. Likwajongene noqoqosho lwesibini. Kungoku nje kukho ookopolotyeni nentatho-nxaxheba yabo babevinjwe amathuba ngaphambili, amakhosikazi kunye nabantu abatsha. Amakhosikazi eli lizwe, xa eza kubhiyozela isikhumbuzo somhla we-9 kaOgasti 1956 aza kuthi, “Strydom, nathi sasifuna ubuncwane beli lizwe.” (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Prepare yourselves, because I am switching over to isiXhosa. This department has several subunits and the leadership of Asgisa, which is a framework for identifying priorities and a guide for the accomplishment of the government’s vision and objectives informing its programme of action, that falls under it.

The important thing is that the department has grown considerably in the last 10 years. It is also looking at interventions to intensify the second economy. Cooperatives have been established and there is participation by the historically disadvantaged, women and the youth.

When the women of this country celebrate the day of 9 August 1956, they will say: “Strydom, we also want to benefit from the country’s wealth.”]

The Select Committee on Economic Affairs is fortunate to have visited the two IDZs, as the Minister has said. We are impressed by the work that has been done, and the fact that employment opportunities are created.

The good part about the port of Ngqurha is that it is located near the township of Port Elizabeth. Furthermore it has also contributed to the Nelson Mandela Metropole’s revenue.

Kwakhona, ukuhlanganiswa kweemoto kuzo zombini ezi dolophu, iMonti neBhayi, kuncedisana kakhulu nokuvulwa kwamathuba okulungiselela abantu abatsha. Ndazi mfana uthile waseBhayi ochongwe ngabaqeshi ukuba aye kwandisa ulwazi lwakhe eJamani, ukuze abuye esazi kangcono ukuba iklatshi isebenza njani na emotweni.

Kambe ke, Mphathiswa, uyazi ukuba abasebenzi bomqhaphu namalaphu bayakhala ngeemveliso zaseMpuma. Apha eNtshona Koloni mininzi imizi-mveliso evaliweyo neza kuvalwa ngenxa yokuba zininzi iimpahla zexabiso elingephi apha ngaphandle. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Furthermore, the motor industry in Port Elizabeth and East London helps to create employment opportunities for the youth. I know of a certain young man from Port Elizabeth who was recently selected by his employers to go to Germany and study clutch plates.

The Minister would know that people in the retail and clothing industry are threatened by the sharp surge in imports from the East. In the Western Cape many textile factories have been forced to close down, because cheap brands of low quality fill the streets of the metropole.] Again, we want to say that the department must even be more vociferous about the Proudly South Africa Campaign.

Enye yezinto ezibalulekileyo nesizikhuthaza ukuba ziqiniswe, lurhwebo namazwe aseAfrika. Nanjengoko thina Mzantsi Afrika singoonozakuzaku bokumanya eli lizwekazi iAfrika, kubalulekile ukuba senze amathuba okusa amashishini kula mazwe angabamelwane ibe yindima yethu. Le yenye yeendlela zokuba abantu bakuthi abaza kuthi baqeshwe emazweni abo.

Amakhosikazi eli lizwe ayazingca ngenkqubo karhulumente. Athi nongenankomo uyayidla inyama. Nditsho kuba akuthiwa usomashishini makabe yindoda, koko nabani na angaxhamla. Ukumiselwa kweSmall Enterprise Development Agency yinto encomeka kakhulu.

Kungakuhle xa inokukhawuleziswa le nkqubo. Le yenye yeendlela ezikhawulezayo zokuxhobisa amakhosikazi nabantu abatsha kwanabo bakhubazekileyo. Siyayibulela kananjalo into yokuba iinkonzo ezinjengezi zidlala indima enkulu kuVuk’uzenzele.

Xa ndigqibezela, mandiyincome indima eyadlalwa nguMphathiswa, uSekela Mphathiswa kunye neqela labo eHong Kong. Sinethemba lokuba egameni loMzantsi uMphathiswa uya kusebenza ngamandla kuloo ntlanganiso yabaphathiswa kwaye uya kuba nempumelelo ekuzakuzeleni amazwe asakhasayo nakhulayo.

Ndinombono weenkokheli zethu zincumile kuloo mangcwaba zilele kuwo zisithi, “Kwedini, sasikuqeqeshele loo nto.”

Ndixhasa abantu abathi uhlalo-lwabiwo-mali lweli sebe lulungile. Siyalwamkela. Enkosi. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[It is important that, as South Africa leads the campaign for unity in Africa, it creates as many trade links with neighbouring countries as possible. This would provide an opportunity for the citizens of our country to find employment in those countries too.

The women of this country are proud about the development that is government-led. It is time that those who have been previously disadvantaged should benefit. It is not only men who should be involved in business, but anybody and everybody. The establishment of the Small Enterprise Development Agency is welcome.

This programme should be accelerated. It is one of the many ways to empower women, the youth and the physically disabled. The programme is welcomed because it plays a great role in the Vukuzenzele campaign.

In conclusion, I would like to express our appreciation of the role that the hon Minister, the Deputy Minister and their team played in Hong Kong. We believe that South Africa will be well represented by the Minister in the coming ministerial conference.

I can imagine our leaders smiling in their graves and saying: “Young man, this we expect from you because you were trained to deliver on this very mandate.”

I support the people who say that this Budget Vote is acceptable. We welcome it. Thank you. [Applause.]]

Ms S H CHEN: Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister and hon colleagues, it goes without saying that the trade and industry climate in our country plays an extremely important role in how South Africa is experienced as well as perceived as a country. Over the years we have seen various efforts by the government to make improvements to the country’s economy. For example, we are looking forward to the recently established Accelerated Shared Growth Initiative of South Africa, Asgisa, in transforming economic growth and how it has benefited a wide sector of industry. I believe this initiative should be continued with strong backing from the budget.

There have also been efforts by competition authorities to clamp down on import parity pricing, as well as encouraging participation of the private sector in the provision of electricity as they become involved in the running and financing of the gas turbines. These changes in our trade and industry will benefit our economy tremendously and move our country towards the eventual privatisation of parastatals, which should be an essential component of our growth strategy.

Despite the many efforts that have been made, there remains much room for improvement in our country’s trade and industry. During my various trips overseas, I have always tried my best to be an economic ambassador for our country and made efforts to encourage investment; but interested potential businesses have several concerns that prevent them from making commitments to South Africa - some of which I shall now mention.

The South African Investment Climate Assessment conducted in 2004 found that although the investment climate is generally favourable in South Africa, most firms were still discouraged from investing because the exchange rate has been quite unstable. The cost of skilled labour is high, labour regulation is burdensome and the cost of crime is high.

Other significant areas of concern identified by the ICA include the high cost of financing the HIV/Aids epidemic and markets not being conducive to competition because of high entry barriers. All these changes, which not only involve the Department of Trade and Industry but all our departments in resolving these issues, require our departments to work together hand in hand. The current strategy for improving our trade and industry sector is informed by the current economic imperatives and challenges of achieving and sustaining higher Gross Domestic Product growth, job creation, investment, exports and broadening of economic participation and activity through black economic empowerment and enterprise development.

In order to achieve these various goals, certain areas will require our attention and specific needs must be fulfilled. Most importantly, it is imperative that there is effective and efficient use of allocated funds and budgets such as the creation of the capacity to spend funds within specific time periods of the fiscal year.

The DA urges government to scrap the ineffective Sector Education and Training Authority bureaucracy, and make regulated demand-based skills development and education attractive to employers through tax incentives to address the present serious skills shortage in industries.

The DA also requests government urgently to set up a development fund in order to address the shortage of qualified teachers and to improve the quality of tuition to meet our labour force needs, especially regarding mathematics and science.

We further suggest the identification of scarce skills that are vital for the growth of the economy and that they be exempt them from employment equity requirements - which will contribute to government halving unemployment by 2014 - and that criteria for skilled immigrants be lessened.

The DA also recommends that all school leavers are issued with opportunity vouchers for the first three years after school, which could be redeemed in pursuit of an approved education programme and internship opportunities.

In summary, in order to promote sustained economic growth in South Africa, education and skills training will be one of our priorities. We need to face the reality of our economy with its current limitations and be proactive and courageous in making changes that are needed to take us into the 21st century and for us to become a First World economy. The DA supports the budget. I thank you, Deputy Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr Z S KOLWENI: Bambela Sihlalo, mncedisi, malungu ePalemente ahloniphekileyo, mPhathiswa nabaxhasi bakho. [Deputy Chairperson, Members of Parliament, Minister and Deputy Ministers …]

I am grateful to have this moment to add my voice to this important debate.

Since the advent of the democratic order, the government led by the movement of the people, the ANC, has advanced a trade and industry intervention strategy that is firmly based on the following pillars: empowerment of previously disadvantaged groups; strengthening the domestic economy; lowering tariffs; promoting and strengthening market access to major markets like EU, Africa, Asia and the US; strengthening the regional trade and markets in the South African Development Community; and establishing a regulatory environment consumer protection and competition policy that enhances and guides economic activity.

These interventions are primarily aimed at expanding globalisation and placing the South African economy on an upward growth strategy, thereby reversing the previous decade’s negative growth rates.

Our consciousness as the ANC-led government tells us that our development and growth as a country is intertwined with the growth and development of the continent, the AU in general and the SADC region in particular. Our government is committed to supporting economic development on the continent through regional trade integration, increased intracontinental trade and capacity-building.

Our membership of the South African Customs Union, Sacu, portrays our commitment to the regionalisation of our trading blocs. Sacu membership enables the free interchange of goods between member countries. Our vision is to see the continent operating as a trading bloc and this is consistent with ideals envisioned in the New Partnership for Africa’s Development, Nepad.

On the international front, our government continues to engage constructively through bilateral talks for market access. The following processes are in place: There are continuing negotiations with the US, China and India; bilateral trade agreements have been concluded with Croatia, Turkey and Gabon and economic co-operation agreements signed with the DRC and Angola.

Furthermore, our government plans to finalise 10 bilateral and trade agreements, including 10 technical missions in Africa. South Africa will also chair Sacu until the end of this year.

At the World Trade Organisation, WTO, the ANC-led government remains committed to ensuring that development considerations are built into international trade rules and that developing countries begin to benefit.

In addition to enterprise development, the creation of the Small Enterprise Development Agency, Seda, and the establishment of the Apex fund continues to ensure easy access to financing for survivalists, small and medium business.

Khula Enterprise’s financial contribution has resulted in the creation of about 46 000 jobs in the SMME sector. A total of 49% of Khula disbursements were allocated to women-owned businesses, 51% went to the black economic empowerment initiatives. In ensuring greater access to finance, five new Retail Financial Institutions for SMMEs have been established - rural economies. Furthermore, an alternative exchange has been created in the Johannesburg Stock Exchange, JSE, for the listing of small and medium-sized companies.

With regard to mineral resources, the Northern Cape contains a variety of mineral deposits that are conducive to small-scale mining activities. The government has a plan to invest resources to stimulate small-scale mining for the benefit of the masses of our people. To effect the vision of government, as contained in Asgisa, the provincial government should accelerate the establishment of region-based Small-Scale Mining and Minerals Development Centres to facilitate and guide the process.

The development of priorities of the ANC-led government is to promote emerging growth opportunities, SMME development in the emerging sectors and redistribution of service provision. There are industrial support measures administered by the DTI in conjunction with the Industrial Development Corporation and Trade and Investment South Africa. These programmes are intended to benefit the previously disadvantaged, especially youth and women.

There are programmes intended to promote new investment in primary agricultural production and the development of agro-processing by stimulating increased export of high value agricultural produce. Furthermore, there are efforts that are promoting transformation in agriculture through land reform, allocation of water rights, transfer of skills and knowledge and provision of agricultural credit to emerging black farmers.

The above-mentioned initiatives support the intentions of the Agri-BEE Charter. The above-mentioned programmes portray the commitment of our government to improving the quality of life and the dignity of our people. The ANC supports the Vote. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Ms A N T MCHUNU: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Ministers, hon members of this House, Chairperson of the Select Committee on Trade and Industry and the hard-working staff of the department, I honour the staff that have to churn out paper after paper, day after day, week after week, year after year, in order to make sure that we as South Africans know what the department is moving towards, as far as economic growth is concerned, in our aim to achieve the 6% growth rate.

We as South Africans are on board an economic ship that is sailing partly in the tested waters of the economic haves and partly in the untested waters of the economic have-nots. Between the two are those who are scrambling to be haves. The scrambling group is needed, because it supports and grows the economy of the country through buying – that is through the GDP contribution and taxes. This is the group that is referred to as the people who are in the second economy and have to move up to the first economy. They occupy the second deck of the ship and are busy working towards reaching the sunny, well-ventilated upper deck.

Our challenge lies with the people who are on the lower deck. They don’t see the blue sky; they don’t have access to the fresh air brought in by the ocean breeze. The third deck is characterised by poverty, ignorance, disease and hopelessness. The co-captains of this ship, that is the Minister and the hon Deputy Ministers who are here with us today, spend sleepless nights making sure that this ship does not crash against the rocks. Their job is to save South Africa from the holocaust of economic depression.

The hon members of the NCOP have pledged to work with the captains to serve our countrymen, countrywomen and our children. Strategies laid down by the department have to be marketed to all corners of South Africa. I’m not going to go into all the strategies that have been laid down by the department, but they are very good on paper and we just have to make sure that they are delivered and marketed to the people.

There is something for everyone in this economic basket that can help to get the people from deck three to deck two. In the rural areas we have grasses like incema, ilala, umtshiki, insekane, amagceba and other types, from which wonderful, marketable crafts can be made.

We were lucky to have our Deputy Minister at the World Trade Organisation, and we accessed information on the importance of crafts and agriculture. So these have to be promoted within our communities. Clay for clay pots and other decorative items is being and can be produced. This is the job creation that can increase exports in direct marketing, and this would go from the producer straight to the consumer with the producer’s label or name.

At times, our poor people are disadvantaged in that whatever they produce goes out in the name of somebody else, and they are not recognised at all in the markets inside the country or outside the country.

Progress on what has been achieved is appreciated, but more needs to be done to clear the backlog of old apartheid undeliverables and present millennium promises. Co-operatives are not reaching the poorest of the poor. The IFP supports the Budget Vote, but it feels that more needs to be done. Thank you very much. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY (Ms E Thabethe): Madam Deputy Chairperson, the Department of Trade and Industry intends to strengthen its contribution to the success of local economic development. The DTI will strengthen its delivery at the local level through the concrete promotion of a vibrant small-enterprise sector.

We recognise that local government, within the framework of integrated development plans, pursues economic development mainly through functions such as land-use planning, service delivery, development and regulation. The DTI, however, retains a shared responsibility for economic growth and job creation opportunities.

In this regard, the Integrated Small-Enterprise Development Strategy that the DTI will finalise in August 2006 is important. The core thrust of the strategy aligns with the local economic development national policy framework and has four critical elements: firstly, policy and planning; secondly, enterprise development; thirdly, women empowerment; and, fourthly, improved co-ordination within provinces.

Regarding the policy and planning section, this year the DTI will make considerable inroads into ensuring policy coherence and convergence. At the forefront of our activities will be the development of an intergovernmental framework for enabling the three spheres of government to provide support for SMMEs. This framework will support the DTI’s Small Enterprise Development Agency, Seda, to achieve integrated implementation.

Given its focus on active mobilisation of economic actors, local economic development is best performed through nurturing economic networks and activities within poor communities. Local economic development needs to build the capacity of the poor to undertake economic activity and to connect them with external economic opportunities. This means connecting economic operators and workseekers in poor communities with the wider economy. This will be the approach underpinning the Seda implementation strategy.

The department will also be strengthening policy and planning in three other areas. First, the DTI is working on a framework to guide the activities of finance institutions to enable the provision of access to finance for SMMEs, as alluded to by the Minister.

Secondly, the department will guide the private-sector SMME implementation of the codes of good practice, with particular reference here to the enterprise development aspect of the code. In this respect, the BB BEE, broad-based black economic empowerment, codes will be an important source of demand for emerging small enterprises and will be a key driver of transformation in our economy.

Finally, the DTI is championing a public-sector programme to target procurement towards SMME suppliers and, in doing so, using the state as a direct source of demand for small businesses in terms of identifying 10 items to be procured from small businesses.

As a package these initiatives will make the economic environment friendlier to the growth and sustainability of small businesses and hence the success of local economic development.

Enterprise development, the second part of our integrated small enterprise strategy, has several aspects to it. The first is an expansion of the service delivery network. This network will expand the reach of enterprise development services and strengthen the provision of specialised services to and mentoring of small businesses.

In consultation with municipalities, Seda has established five provincial offices in the North West, Mpumalanga, KwaZulu-Natal, the Eastern Cape and the Northern Cape and 24 branch offices, as well as 87 enterprise information centres. This has been done with due consideration for geographic spread.

The second aspect of enterprise development is improved access to finance, and the Minister alluded to that particular point. The third aspect is looking at market development, and the DTI is seeking to expand market opportunities for small businesses.

The fourth aspect of enterprise development is organisational support. We think that if we can strengthen this, we will be able to move forward. Also, we would like to include entities such as the Chambers of Commerce, Industry SA and Business Unity SA so that we can have this co-operative network working properly within the co-operatives for the second economy enterprises to become organised.

The fifth aspect of enterprise development is community enterprise. In this regard, the proposed legislation that was passed last year on co-operatives has been approved and is now law. The co-operative regulations have been published for comment.

The DTI is working very closely with the provinces. I think you can bear testimony to part of this from the visit of the NCOP to people in the Kgalagadi district. We saw some of the co-operatives working there.

With regards to women empowerment, in all that we do strong leadership is needed to ensure that the needs of women are prioritised. Indeed, as we move forward from 10 years of democracy, we must accept the fact that we have not yet yielded the full benefits for women. More emphasis on women’s empowerment is needed, as the chairperson of the select committee said. Responding to this, government is considering a strategic framework for women’s economic empowerment to assist us in closing the gaps that currently exist in our economic policies.

The DTI has two initiatives dealing with women empowerment. They are Technology for Women in Business, and the SA Women Entrepreneurs’ Network, Sawen, that has continued to be the best vehicle for supporting women entrepreneurs in all provinces. I wish to assure you that these will be accessible to all women in all provinces, as we are busy opening offices in most of the provinces now.

Again, Sawen will continue to succeed in exposing our women to international markets as part of doing business with the rest of the world. We have alliances with other critical women’s business organisations in Africa and in Europe generally. Our intention is to make sure that women’s empowerment continues to inform, if not all, our global partnerships we enter into. We believe that our women have to learn more from the world, and we also know for a fact that the rest of the world can and has learnt from our women. That has been proven by what the chairperson has said. If you remember, this is the 50th anniversary of the women’s march to Pretoria.

As far as improved co-ordination with provinces is concerned, at the centre of all effective implementation is effective leadership and co-ordination. Giving leadership to such a local economic development programme requires the effective alignment of provincial and national SMME support initiatives. In this regard, the DTI has set up the provincial co- ordination committee.

In conclusion, the Department of Trade and Industry has been hard at work refining proposal and action plans. We see 2006-07 as the year for the effective implementation at local level. But, also, if you are looking at the question of youth, we do have a programme that is assisting our youth in terms of looking at entrepreneurship amongst the youth in South Africa.

Therefore, the DTI views support for youth-owned businesses or enterprises as a priority as well. The department is currently giving particular support to the formulation of the youth enterprise development strategy developed by the Umsobomvu Youth Fund and the National Youth Commission.

We hope that if we implement all the strategies and initiatives I have mentioned today, we will be supporting and closely monitoring as the DTI and holding hands with the provinces, so that together we can contribute to a better life for all. We believe that with the strategies that we have, surely within the age of hope we’ll be able to see our economy growing and also empowering our previously disadvantaged. I thank you. [Applause.]

Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Mevrou die Voorsitter, die Departement van Handel en Nywerheid is onteenseglik een van die belangrike rolspelers in die bereiking van die 6% groei wat deur die regering voorsien word, en enige werklik opregte Suid-Afrikaner sal die departement en die ministerie inderdaad ondersteun in hul pogings om dit te bereik. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Madam Speaker, the Department of Trade and Industry is indisputably one of the important role-players in the achievement of the 6% growth foreseen by the government, and any truly sincere South African will indeed support the department and the Ministry in their efforts to achieve this.]

However, there are two obstacles to this and both of them involve the BEE situation. In regard to the first, I am going to quote from the Financial Mail dated 28 April 2006, where it said regarding BEE:

The current sentiment of government appears to be to ignore the definition of who is black, that is, contained within the code, notably to the exclusion of the SA Chinese population.

There is also a reference to a recent court ruling which awarded employment positions to people who are, perhaps, more black than others. This complicates matters, and it introduces a new concern for companies wishing to comply with BEE requirements.

There is also a reference to what the situation is where certain companies with more black shareholders are compared to other companies with more Indian and coloured shareholders. There is also a reference to another report from the Financial Mail where it is stated that the US, in its trade policy agenda document, expressed its concern about the main risk of doing business in South Africa. It’s not something that cannot be overcome and luckily the department, and especially its acting director, indicated that South Africa should take some responsibility in getting the right message across regarding the concern expressed about the code of conduct that is the policy of the department.

Be that as it may, I am also involved in another capacity, not as a political representative but as part of a legal team, and I would like to thank the department particularly for having an open mind and an open-door policy regarding new initiatives. The FF Plus will definitely support this Budget Vote. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr V C XABA (KwaZulu-Natal): Hon Chairperson, hon members, it is my honour to stand before this House representing my province, KwaZulu-Natal. The MEC for finance and economic development, Dr Zweli Mkhize, asked me to convey his apology to the hon Minister, the Chairperson and the House.

I stand proudly because KwaZulu-Natal has demonstrated what it is capable of and the people there have invested hopes in the leadership of the province and the direction the province has actually taken.

The mood of optimism about the prospects for growth and development in KwaZulu-Natal is growing. This is not surprising as our research indicates that KwaZulu-Natal is the second largest contributor to the national GDP. In the first decade of our democracy our real per capita income increased from R14 500 to R16 000 as the province’s real GDP growth of 3,2% outpaced its population growth of 2,1%. The GDP growth over the past five years has roughly averaged 3,11%, in line with the national average of 3,24%.

Significant industry contributors to this growth include textiles, clothing and leather, agriculture, forestry, fishing, transport, and so on. The province’s comparative advantage in these areas can be attributed partly to its favourable climate and an extensive transport infrastructure, particularly the ports of Durban and Richards Bay, still amongst the busiest ports in the Southern hemisphere. Our fastest growing sectors include tourism, communication, finance and insurance to name but a few.

KwaZulu-Natal is one of the most significant regional contributors to the international trade with more than 18% of total South African exports originating in the province. This is largely due to exports of nonferrous metals, iron and steel driven by demand in China.

Not surprisingly, as the most populous province unemployment and poverty are still seen as the most prevalent developmental problem. About 32% of economically active people are currently unemployed in KwaZulu-Natal – using the street definition. Women generally are hardest hit by unemployment. In terms of income and poverty, just over half of our population live below the poverty line.

In seeking solutions to unemployment and poverty we are working in a variety of ways to make interventions to bridge the gap between the first and the second economy as part of an overall strategy of increasing our economic competitiveness. It would be useful if the DTI and the economic cluster became more actively involved in these interventions.

With regard to interventions, the Dube Trade Port is one of the key developmental projects whose success will stimulate growth and further unlock the key potential of the province. The environmental approval processes are underway and will be concluded by December. Preferred bidders have been selected to bid for a design and construction contract. Tenders should be awarded early next year. The provincial government has made an allocation available over the MTEF cycle for construction. Legislation that will see the Dube Trade Port registered as a public entity is currently being developed.

Negotiations with Acsa are ongoing. We would want to see DTI providing support for the trade zone initiatives. Support is also required for a one- stop government services shop, that is trade and incentive services. We require commitment from the strategic infrastructure fund and critical infrastructure fund.

We would like the Minister to clarify the position of the department with respect to the Durban International Airport site, once it is decommissioned. KwaZulu-Natal is far from harbouring prospects of having two airports of the size of the current international airport and the new King Shaka Airport. In fact, it will not work and is a path to self- destruction. Huge strides have been made in encouraging the development of co-operatives. Ithala has loans and grants available for supporting co- operatives. The response has been overwhelming and has attracted 951 co- operatives’ applications worth R149 million in approved funds.

Literally, thousands of people have had access to basic training on understanding co-operatives with support being provided through the provincial treasury, FET colleges and the department of economic development. The programme will gain more momentum this financial year and be improved.

The programme will also receive support for the first time this year from the Department of Agriculture and Environmental Affairs that is targeting agricultural co-operatives.

With regard to the Local Economic Development, the EU funded the Gijima KwaZulu-Natal Local Economic Development Support Programme, which has now taken off. To date more than 250 applications for LED projects have been received; R115 million worth of projects were assessed, and about R53 million awarded to fund 66 projects while another R50 million had been leveraged through contributions from applicants. Of these, some 20 projects are being undertaken in district and local government to improve LED planning and building capacity to manage LED programmes.

The balance of funding is invested in partnership-based, business-related projects in tourism, agriculture, transport and manufacturing. I am pleased to inform this House that a Memorandum of Understanding has also been concluded with Standard Bank providing for a loan facility for SMMEs battling to access various financial services products.

The Gijima KZN programme is now the most successful EU-funded project in the country. Eastern Cape and Limpopo provinces are now looking to these programmes to inform their own programmes.

A monitoring, learning and research facility will be established and operational by August 2006. This will enable us to engage in impact assessment and to understand and learn from it. The DTI holds a seat on the programme steering committee and it should, in fact, be encouraged to become more active in the programme.

The development of the industrial development strategy has helped us identify sectors with expansion possibilities for BEE through the establishment of new small-scale enterprises and facilitation of joint ventures and partnerships between SMMEs and big industries.

About R200 million was allocated to Ithala to fund SMME development. Ithala matched this with its own revenue. By the end of February 2006, Ithala had approved 678 SMME applications for loans, totalling to over R471 million – well above the set target of R370 million.

In KwaZulu-Natal there are about R700 million worth of investments that have created 350 jobs. Trade and investments in KwaZulu-Natal also welcomed 15 investment delegations interested in various sectors in the province, like chemicals, printing, automotives, minerals, clothing and textiles.

We believe that these fact-finding missions will translate into sustainable investments, joint ventures or partnerships with local businesses. Several outward trade missions were also undertaken to diverse nations, including Germany, India, Japan and South Korea.

We are not celebrating yet as the road ahead is still full of challenges to be met and hurdles to be overcome. We thank all those who have chosen us as the destination for investments. We support the Budget as proposed by the hon Minister. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr P W SAAIMAN (Northern Cape): Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Minister, hon Deputy Ministers and hon members, let me at the outset apologise for the absence of Mr Pakes Dikgetsi. He is our MEC for finance and economic affairs in the Northern Cape. He is on official government business overseas, aimed at securing further investments for the Northern Cape province.

Poverty, unemployment and general developmental challenges are predominant features in the Northern Cape province. Provincial government and our social partners have made a commitment, through the Northern Cape provincial growth and development strategy, to jointly ensure that we meet the challenge of halving unemployment and poverty by 2014.

We hope to do this through, amongst other things, vigorous and sectoral enterprise development programmes. In this instance, sector-specific transformation charters, meant to advance black enterprise empowerment and streamline procurement, are being implemented in our province in order to redress the effect of skewed economic activities.

The Northern Cape provincial growth and development strategy, amongst other priorities, identifies mining development, mineral beneficiation, manufacturing, tourism, agriculture and agriprocessing, and mariculture as some of the most important sectors with high employment potential.

In the spirit of the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa, it is befitting that the Northern Cape has been identified as the hub of mining beneficiation in South Africa. In this regard, a diamond cutting and polishing factory is at an advanced stage of being established in Kimberley.

It’s also our firm belief that, given the role that the Northern Cape and particularly Kimberley have played in the diamond-mining industry, it would be most appropriate that the state diamond trade be located in Kimberley. For this we ask the full backing of the Minister and the Deputy Ministers in the department.

With the lifespan of many of the diamond mines coming to an end, we are also extremely pleased that De Beers have seen their way clear, in partnership with the Northern Cape government, to revamp the tourism projects around the Big Hole, totalling more than R50 million, creating one of the only unique diamond-related experiences that the world will see.

In the same way, we are pleased by the confidence other investors continue to show in our province. We refer here to the decision of Assmang Ltd to invest, among other things, about R3,176 billion to expand its Kumani iron ore mining operations in Kathu and Sishen. This development will create many job opportunities with a positive spin-off for local suppliers as part of our preferential procurement policy in the mining sector.

We are also engaging related stakeholders and potential investors with the aim of having a manganese smelter constructed in the Postmasburg-Kathu area. These developments will further advance beneficiation and will contribute significantly to the economic growth of our province.

The province is well endowed with mineral resources that are waiting to be exploited for the benefit of the province and the country. As I speak, there are various exploration activities that are being carried out in our province. We are also told that the explorations have revealed that there are significant natural gas deposits off the Namaqualand coast near Hondeklipbaai. The question is: Could this be the answer to the Western Cape’s power shortage?

In order for the Northern Cape provincial government to realise and achieve its mission of creating an enabling and economic environment for the province, proper stakeholder-based support, linkages and strategic partnerships with both the private sector and civil society are crucial in ensuring that the limited and scarce resources are channelled and utilised more effectively.

Such linkages, strategies and partnerships within the province to accelerate business and enterprise development have been entered into to meet the following. Regarding business and enterprise financing, we have entered into agreements with Standard Bank, through the preferential procurement centre. Absa Bank assisted with the development of the small, medium and micro enterprise strategy, and the Basha Fund. Negotiations are ongoing with regard to the effective involvement of Nedbank and the other financial institutions that can add value to the existing challenges that face the province. Our business partners also targeted youth franchise financing.

Regarding business and skills development, the provincial Small Enterprise Development Agency office was launched in March 2006. Seda district branches and enterprise information centres will also become fully operational within the current financial year. The provincial office of the Umsobomvu Youth Fund has been established. There is also the Northern Cape further education and training in garment craft, and women entrepreneurship skills enhancement programmes.

There are government communication and information services economic opportunities dealing with communication processes and information dissemination processes. The Department of Trade and Industry programmes for co-operatives ``train-the-trainer’’ training was conducted, including provincial road shows. A network facilitators’ training course to enhance local economic development and enterprise development capacity in municipalities is scheduled to run from 22 to 26 May 2006 in Kimberly.

The provincial roll-out process of the SMME strategy is to be attained before the end of November 2006. The roll-out plan has already been developed. The province currently hosts a full page in the broadly distributed SMME business newspaper in the country, namely, The Big News. This is aimed at publicising and sharing both challenges and success stories with regard to the economic growth sectors and approaches.

The first publication for the Northern Cape was the May 2006 issue, which focused mainly on the recent events hosted by the department of economic affairs. The June issue will focus mainly on the provincial youth in economic development due to June being youth month.

While the equitable economic growth and advancement of people still living within the second economy’s boundaries is important, such growth should be accelerated in an integrated manner, including improving the development and support of the SMME sector.

Such support can effectively be realised through enhancing the skills base of the small and medium enterprises. This will greatly assist to improve the overall competitiveness and their ability to access procurement and other business opportunities.

Broad-based black economic empowerment is one of the vehicles meant to increase the number of black-owned entities significantly through joint venture initiatives. It should thus be noted that the broad-based black economic empowerment opportunities in government are mainly accessed through procurement processes. Therefore, preferential procurement is one way in which broad-based black economic empowerment can be fast-tracked.

However, this process should be enforced with the aim of ensuring sustainable economic growth and enterprise development through observing and implementing the balanced-scorecard approach.

In an effort to deal with the abuse of these opportunities, government introduced codes of good practice as an intervention measure. They are to be applied across all broad-based black economic charters.

The incorporation of the Kgalagadi region in the Northern Cape also presents new challenges in terms of our socioeconomic development strategies and service delivery - particularly in the rural areas - and implementing and applying Northern Cape laws and policies in the area.

Much work has already been done in this regard. Together with the masses of our people, united in the people’s contract to create work and fight poverty, we are determined, in our province, to push back the frontiers of poverty and unemployment and to create a better life for all. The Northern Cape supports the budget. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY (Dr R Davies): Chairperson, it is an obvious proposition that in an increasingly globalised world, prospects for local and regional economic development are greatly influenced by trends in international trade relations. Conversely, developments at local and regional level may impact in varying degrees on what happens in the international sphere. And therefore, while the primary focus of this Council is quite correctly on provincial and local economic development issues, giving effect to the mandate of this House also requires engagement with matters of international economy and trade.

In my input today, I want to concentrate on two aspects of this process. First, I want to discuss the development of active clusters as part of our National Industry Policy Framework. And later I want to discuss some implications of recent developments in the World Trade Organisation and negotiations, in which I am glad to see members of this House, and in particular of the select committee ably chaired by Ms Nosipho Ntwanambi, are taking a keen interest.

As the Minister indicated the DTI is in the final stages of completing an industrial policies framework for South Africa. The broad principles that we envisage which underline a renewed moral, robust industrial policy have been elucidated on a number of occasions. And let me just briefly recap a few aspects.

Firstly, we will be encouraging stakeholders, government, business and labour, to engage in self-discovery exercises, both to identify sectors which need to be prioritised and to identify key action plans within sectors that need to be undertaken to move our sectors forward.

Secondly, we envisaged key action plans emerging from such processes that will inform us to a greater degree than in the past and the development of more customers in centres of offerings made available by government. Thirdly, we are saying that government must be prepared to deploy more resources strategically on a scale sufficient to make a real difference in the sectors that are prioritised.

And finally, we indicated that there should be greater conditionality in the deployment of our resources in the sense that beneficiaries will be expected to actively implement key action plans that we have agreed upon at sectoral level; and if they do not, government should be willing to withdraw that support.

The targeting of sectors which are already undergoing customised sector programmes at various levels of development have taken place through exercises of self-discovery at national level.

However, we need to recognise the sectoral industrial development and also have a spatial dimension; and as a number of speakers have already said, vast regional disparities are impediments to balanced economic growth in our country.

As Minister Mphahlwa has already indicated, we will be promoting a more intense strategic conversation between the DTI and provincial governments to identify the special dimensions of the more robust and more intense industrial strategy that we will be seeking to promote.

Among other things we need to reach a measure of agreement on the identification of sectors that are targeted as priorities. When national, provincial and local government agree on the identification of priority sectors, we then need to clarify the respective roles of the three spheres of government. Within the DTI, one of the crucial challenges we see is the need to promote greater integration divisions that are responsible for the production of sector strategy and those that are responsible for the design and distribution of incentives and offerings.

We also need to promote a similar greater coherence and integration between programmes that are drafted at national level and those at provincial level so that, as far as possible, they can be mutually reinforcing in a way that increases the impact.

Clustering has long been recognised as an important vehicle for hastening economic development and competitiveness, as the experience of many countries has shown. Clustering essentially means bringing firms within a value chain together so that they can co-operate and realise the synergies that will enable the whole cluster to compete more effectively.

In South Africa, however, it is generally accepted that with some few exceptions, cluster development has been insufficient. One of the challenges of developing a more effective region of industrial policy will therefore be to develop more effective cluster strategies. This can be done through processes of private-public consultation involving key government structures in all three spheres, as well as private sector associations and partner agencies.

Provinces and local authorities have a critical role to play in this regard and indeed sometimes may be a better place from which to lead and dynamicise cluster processes than national government. Issues of finance to facilitate cluster processes are also critical challenges that need to be taken forward through an intergovernmental strategic conversation.

Implementing a more effective and regionally sensitive industry strategy will therefore require much more intensive consultation between and within the different spheres of government. And we look forward to engaging in that important task and also to receiving the inputs from this House. The World Trade Organisation’s Doha Round negotiations have missed yet another deadline.

The 6th Ministerial Conference held in Hong Kong in December last year agreed that 30 April should be the deadline for the negotiation of what are called full modalities in agriculture and nonagriculture market access or industrial tariff negotiations.

That deadline was not met because the positions of the membership on key issues remain too far apart. In our analysis, the critical blockage remains the inabilities of the European Union to significantly improve its offer on agricultural market access.

This led the United States, in turn, to adopt a stance that without an improvement in agriculture market access it cannot improve the offer it made in October last year for cuts in domestic support, which is the biggest category of agriculture subsidies. The third major elements in the equation are the nonagriculture market access, or industrial tariff negotiations.

Here the 27 or so developing countries, already identified in terms of definitions, which agreed to make formula cuts are finding themselves under intense pressure to make very ambitious and in our view disproportionately large cuts in the industrial tariffs.

Though the deadline of the 30th was missed, intense efforts are underway in Geneva to reach an agreement on what is called the triangle of issues that needs to be unblocked to advance the process of agricultural market access, domestic support and nonagricultural market access.

A new, implicit deadline in the middle of June or July has been set. If this deadline is missed, we are told that the possibility of reaching agreement within the timeframes of the current trade promotion authority of the United States will be slim. The Doha Development Round may as a result collapse with consequences including the entrenchment of the existing, skewed and anti-developmental status quo in agricultural trade.

In Hong Kong, South Africa played a leading role in consolidating a group of developing countries, potentially subject to formula cuts in industrial tariffs into an alliance, which we called the NAMA 11. In Hong Kong we made the point that the development outcome of the Doha Round needs to see the biggest adjustment in the area of agricultural, trade, which is subject to major distortion to the disadvantage of developing countries.

We also said that the principles of special and differential treatment - and less than full reciprocity – should apply. It was agreed that the Doha Round met the overall balance. The Round must result in developing countries making, proportionally at least, smaller adjustments than developed countries.

Through intense lobbying and negotiations, we managed to have included in the Hong Kong declaration a paragraph that says there must be a corresponding level of ambition market access for NAMA and agriculture. And this we consider to be one of our biggest achievements in Hong Kong.

In the Trade Negotiations Committee session of the WTO held in Geneva on May 1st, I spoke on behalf of the NAMA 11, and stated that while we were prepared to work with the rest of the membership to reach an agreement on full modalities by the new implicit deadline, we insisted on our contribution being proportional and fully respected in terms of the principles of less than full reciprocity and special differential treatment.

We indicated to the TNC that they could be making a series of calculations with regard to informal positions. These would firstly be about the impact of proposed formula adjustments on our own industrial sectors, and secondly on the value of the adjustment we and NAMA would be asked to make compared to the value of benefits we would receive both in NAMA and in agriculture.

We insisted that only when we were convinced that there is a proportionality based on the principles I have already announced, we would be able to agree to a deal. Intensive technical work and preparation is going on within our group to put numbers to the positions we will take forward in the negotiations. Let me assure members of this House that at the very moment we are embarking upon a more robust and ambitious industry policy, with a more active and more effective regional industrial component. We are not about to fritter away all of it in order to facilitate an unbalanced deal in the WTO.

We have prioritised agricultural trade reform, both because it will benefit our own agriculture and agro-industrial sectors, and because it is systemically important for developing countries as a whole to enlarge the opportunities for industrial development.

But as I concluded in my input to the Trade Negotiations Committee, there is an old adage, which is often referred to by a leading union negotiator in this country: Both chickens and pigs make sacrifices in order to produce bacon and eggs for breakfast, but the sacrifices are of a different order and magnitude.

We have told the WTO membership that a deal will only be possible in the Doha Round if countries in our groups are not asked to make a pig’s sacrifice in order to gain chicken feed. I thank you.

Mr N D HENDRICKE: Hon Chair, hon Minister, hon Deputy Ministers, hon members, the Department of Trade and Industry plays a catalytic role as facilitator and co-ordinator of economic and industrial policy-making in conjunction with other departments. The shift has been from macro- to micro- economic policies, implementation and review. As a leading department in the implementation of Asgisa, our new economic growth initiative places many demands and pressures on the DTI and associated institutions. The various initiatives by the Minister and his deputies to properly imbue the department with new political vigour must be applauded.

Having said the above, I want to focus on some key areas of concern. The first area is that of small business development. There has been numerous small business reviews and strategy documents put out by the DTI. They have offered little except bureaucracy and slow disbursement of funds.

The National Credit Act and the National Consumer Act could not come at a more opportune time, given the high level of debt of South African households. Economic growth, fuelled largely by increased credit extension and consumer debt, means a debt finance expansion. Unscrupulous credit provision to already overextended consumers must be addressed, supported by education around the consequences of debt - and here, of course, people who are unfairly blacklisted now have amnesty and come back into the loop. We are happy about that.

The BEE codes of good practice are still far too complicated for ordinary small business people to understand. The practice of fronting in BEE deal- making and then selling shares shortly after the conclusion of deals, aids enrichment and does not add any value to either party. In fact, it leaves one party with a diluted BEE shareholding. We need checks and balances here.

The Competition Commission must be praised for its sterling work in the merger and acquisition fields and conducting unfair-competition hearings. This can only prove valuable to the smooth functioning of the economy without creating a concentration of wealth in particular sectors.

Our trade policy and recent deal with China on textile imports must be carefully monitored, given the structural weakness and inability of the clothing sector to compete with cheap imports. Not enough attention is given to the clothing and textile sector, especially in the Western Cape were we have seen huge retrenchments. Measures must be put in place to protect vulnerable industries.

We want to compliment the Minister and the Deputy Ministers on what they did in Hong Kong, and also for getting us to be a respected global player. We as the UIF support this Budget Vote. I thank you.

Ms J WITBOOI (Western Cape): Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Ministers, MECs and hon members, I am here to represent the Western Cape on behalf of our MEC for economic development, Ms Tasneem Essop, who sends her apologies for not being here as she is dealing with her budget speech as we speak.

I would like to congratulate the Minister and the two Deputy Ministers on their excellent budget speeches today and to wish the Department of Trade and Industry well in the implementation of their plans during the year ahead.

Currently, the Western Cape’s medium-term economic outlook is favourable, primarily owing to its large share in the high growth of the services sector in the provincial economy. The province’s economic growth rate is forecasted to average 4,8% over the period 2006 to 2009.

Nonetheless, while this stable outlook is far from recessionary, it falls short of the 6% economic growth rate that is required fundamentally to improve employment performance and the long-term growth path of the province.

Broad unemployment is currently standing at 26% and is rising as we speak, owing to the rapid increase in the province’s working Aids population. This trend presents itself as a major risk to our goal of shared growth and integrated development.

We require both accelerated and shared growth in the Western Cape. They are two sides of the same economic coin. Growth that is not pro-poor is unlikely to shift our economic growth rate to sustainable higher levels. What is required to achieve this 6% growth rate? It is expected that the recent consumer boom that was a major growth stimulus will run out of steam, hence it is not a long-term driver for higher growth. Direct investment to expand the local economy, together with improved trade penetration in foreign markets, is key to shifting gears with respect to growth.

In view of the aforementioned trends, the key message is that the quality of government’s institutional capacity is imperative for delivering accelerated and shared growth.

Our government in the Western Cape province has driven an integrated strategy entitled “Ikapa Elihlumayo” [Growing the Cape] with a key component being a comprehensive microeconomic development strategy, or Meds, with more than 40 sectoral papers and cross-cutting issues that have been addressed.

In addition, we have assisted in facilitating the establishment of 15 sectoral special-purpose vehicles. These are highly focused and fully representative not-for-profit sectoral bodies that cover key industries, such as clothing, oil and gas supply, tooling, call centres, and ICT. These are in full alignment with the customised sector programmes, or the CSPs, that are in the process of final Cabinet approval.

We fully welcome the conclusion and approval of these CSPs and look forward with much eagerness to their being rolled out. Through our microeconomic development strategy process we have detailed packages of potential projects for each sector from our microeconomic development strategy, as well as the vehicles to deliver them. We would like to express our interest in the CSPs reaching down to the provinces and to see sector-specific partnerships being formed at a provincial level.

To give concrete expression to opportunities for partnerships, I would like to mention a few of our most exciting projects and initiatives: the Cape IT initiative Bandwidth Barn, which houses 60 SMMEs and BEE firms; the Cape Craft and Design Institute’s incubator and technical support entity called FabLab; the Cape Clothing and Textile cluster, which supports 25 firms employing more than 10 000 employees; Calling the Cape, which has attracted foreign firms from the call centre and business process outsourcing environment, creating more than 3 000 jobs over the past two years; the Cape Film Commission and the resultant film studio off the N2 that has received the go-ahead following a lengthy process; the Western Cape Tooling Cluster; and a range of projects in the technology and skills areas specifically.

These all fit in closely with the vision outlined in the Department of Trade and Industry’s customised sector programmes as well as in Asgisa. We look forward to the unlocking of support from national level to drive forward some of these key initiatives.

I would like to highlight the new era of co-operation between the Small Enterprise Development Agency, Seda, and our Red Door initiative, as many parties expressed concerns previously that there was duplication and a lack of alignment regarding this critical area of small business support. To date, we have rolled out 10 Red Doors, and partnerships are being formed with Seda to expand into new areas.

I must also highlight the issue regarding the approval of incentives, with significant delays continuing to be reported regarding the Small and Medium Enterprise Development Programme, as well as export marketing and investment assistance applications. We welcome proposals that will speed up these processes. The delays clearly have a negative effect on the ability of firms to implement plans, stifle the formation of new firms and negatively impact on the ability to attract much-needed foreign investment.

On a positive note, I would like to highlight and thank the Department of Trade and Industry for their involvement in facilitating foreign investment in the Western Cape. We are pleased to announce the following examples: They are the Man Ferrostahl that recently announced its investment of R1,7 billion in the Western Cape, through its planned projects in the oil and gas-supply industry located both in the ports of Cape Town and Saldanha, on the back of the offset agreements.

Another example is Cableman Manufacturing Repairs, with R250 million, situated in the City of Cape Town. Cableman is involved in the design, repair and manufacturing of automotive components. There is also the Charter Cats, which has set up a factory in Epping Industrial, where it builds catamarans for the export market. The investment totals R30 million and employs 300 people.

In conclusion, we look forward to the DTI consolidating its structures and to an era of co-operation and collaboration between our provincial and national counterparts.

I thank you for this opportunity and wish the Minister and the Deputy Ministers every success in this very important portfolio. [Applause.]

Mr M J SIBIYA: Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon Deputy Ministers, colleagues, comrades, ladies and gentlemen, in 1977, the late President of our movement, Comrade Oliver Tambo, the commander-in-chief of MK, addressed the First Congress of the MPLA, Movimento Popular de Libertação de Angola, in Angola and, among other things, he said:

The objective of our struggle in South Africa, as set out in the Freedom Charter, encompasses economic emancipation. It is inconceivable for liberation to have meaning without a return of the wealth to the people as a whole. To allow the existing economic forces to retain their interests intact is to feed the root of racist supremacy and exploitation and it does not represent even the shadow of our liberation.

Mindful of the words of our President, the ANC contributed and continues to contribute to legislation, policies, programmes and strategies that enable our people to access both the land and the economy, which before 1994 were the sole domain of foreign and local exploiters. It is imperative that in the 50th anniversary of the Freedom Charter, we look at the centrality of the Charter in this democracy.

The ANC–led government is committed and will continue to be committed to maintain the duties imposed on it by both history and the mandate of our people. That mandate has at its core the social and economic transformation of the conditions under which our people live and work.

Since the advent of democracy, the ANC-led government has advanced programmes premised on the following: empowerment of historically disadvantaged people whom we call in some ways BEEs; strengthening of the domestic economy which we usually refer to as the second economy. Perhaps we need to go further to ask why is it called the second economy? Second to what, and what order and criteria are used to determine it to be the second economy? [Interjections.] Not now, perhaps later! [Laughter.]

We are also creating the means to promote our people’s access to the market and also that of companies in major international markets like those in the USA, the European Union and Asia, etc. We have also created an environment that is favourable to our people to access the funds and other economic benefits that were not there for them to access before.

Mindful of the drudgery facing our people and the challenges besetting us, we have developed mechanisms to address these problems. Progressive legislation and strategies have been put in place, as I have said, and one of these is the legislation on co-operatives, which has become a tool intended to harness the informal marginalised economic sectors and to stimulate enterprise development in the far-flung areas of our country; most of which, if not all, are rural areas. And I also come from there.

It also means that our government recognises that for a long time the majority of our people have been involved in various co-operative forms of association both in rural and urban areas. They range from letsema, mogodisano, stokvel and burial societies. These are co-operatives which have been marginalised and whose development has been stymied by political and legal constraints.

Our President went further to say that it is very true, and South Africans are aware of it, that the forces that dominate our economy and our land today will never allow us to proceed with our programmes in order to realise what we want our people to have access to. I also need to add that the ANC is aware and ready to do everything in its power to see to it that these forces do not succeed. If they succeed, it would mean we are feeding into the root of racial supremacy and exploitation. This would give our liberation a very, very faint image that will not even represent the shadow of liberation, and that we cannot allow.

Furthermore, the national credit legislation will have a multipronged effect on the consumer credit industry. For the first time in its history the ownership of the consumer credit industry will be deracialised as the legislation promotes BB BEE, Broad-based Black Economic Empowerment, a very interesting abbreviation. [Laughter.]

On the basis of deracialisation referred to above, our people for the first time will be on the same political footing as the rest of our population groups in accessing credit facilities, on the one hand. On the other hand, they too will have to be given full information concerning credit matters, as the Information Act obliges the lenders to do so.

Perhaps before I go further, let me go back a little bit to a time when we were in the Northern Cape, where our proceedings were blessed by the presence of Ministers and Deputy Ministers. One of them was Comrade E Thabethe. There was something there which was very interesting to me. When she spoke, she said a number of things, including that she was coming to the Northern Cape not only to participate in the proceedings of the session, but also to bring the Department of Trade and Industry to the people. She said she was going that way to unveil the Umsobomvu facilities so that the youth, not only in Kuruman, but also in other outlying areas, would no longer have to go to Kimberley for the facilities of that fund, but instead could get the facilities right there where they were staying in Kuruman. Very interesting!

Let me ask a question; if I happen to ask the wrong one, I will face disciplinary action alone. [Laughter.] Who else has indicated to the local people, like she did in the Northern Cape, that they were not only participating in the provincial parliament, but also bringing the DTI to them? They might have said, “but I haven’t heard”. Definitely, they are going to say it and they might even start tomorrow.

To crown it all, the elements that have been mentioned in terms of legislation and the policies that have been put in place are meant to impact meaningfully on the following sectors: transportation, energy, telecommunications and water in general. I would like to invite this House seriously to consider the important slogan coined by our Deputy Minister of Trade and Industry during our visit to the Northern Cape, when she told us that she was there also to bring the DTI to the people. This is an effort to ensure that our people access government services where they stay, instead of travelling long distances and ending up being involved in accidents and sometimes even losing their lives.

Thank you, Deputy Minister, for that slogan; I found it to be brilliant. It is in my heart and wherever I’ll be doing my constituency work I will always refer to it, because it refreshed me. [Applause.]

From what has been said, it is very clear that Vote No 32 has the potential in our country to take us a step further in our efforts to service our people in all areas. Therefore, to me and everybody else who is reasonable

• I don’t know if some are not, actually I am not interested to know - would agree that this Vote should be supported. If we don’t support it, we would be arresting the programmes and strategies we have talked about which enable our people to access specifically the matters of land and wealth. And if we do that, we must know that we are feeding the root of racist supremacy. The ANC supports the Budget Vote and urges this House to do so unreservedly. [Time expired.][Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon Sibiya, I think when you go to your constituency you will also say that you are not only participating, but you are bringing the NCOP to your constituency. [Laughter.]

The MINISTER OF TRADE AND INDUSTRY: Chairperson and hon members, I think that broadly the Budget Vote of the department has been supported. I would like to thank all the members and the different parties for that.

To pick on a few of the issues that have been raised: One of the issues raised quite early in this debate has been the issue of some of the concerns around the South African economy. One of the things mentioned there was the issue of the exchange rate, and the instability of the exchange rate. I think that for quite a lengthy period of time now, our exchange rate has enjoyed a measure of stability subject to the normal fluctuations of the market. What I think has been up for a lot of discussion is whether the level at which it has stabilised is a sustainable one. That is an issue that I think we could debate forever, but from it we have to draw a few things that need to be done.

One of the things we must recognise as South Africans is that continued diversification of the South African economy is an important aspect of our response to these kinds of issues - so that our economy will have a greater diversity and a greater flexibility within it. But in addition to that, we have to recognise that we have to make our firms much more adaptable to the changes in the economic environment in which they operate. So, we have to work at these issues because the instrument of manipulating the exchange rate may not be available to us, even if the exchange rate is a problem. So, we have to work on these sorts of issues - greater diversity of our economy as well as greater adaptability and efficiency of our firms - to be able to cope with these realities of today.

The second set of issues was around skills. Now, whoever raised this matter raised it on the wrong day because there is a very strong team from labour in the area and I am sure that they can deal adequately with these issues. Except that I think it would be important to make the point that the big challenge that faces us, not just in relation to our skills dispensation, is to make things work. That applies to a whole range of things we are doing in government. And part of what we were trying to indicate in our debate today was that we are starting to make a number of things work. The National Empowerment Fund is starting to work. It is disbursing money to support black entrepreneurs. We are trying to show that Khula is responding to the many concerns that have been raised over time about its effectiveness and reach. So, that is what we are trying to do in the Small Enterprise Development Agency - the roll-out that is taking place in the provinces. The Deputy Minister, Ms Thabethe, spoke about that.

So, on the skills issue as well I do not think it is time for us to say we have to scrap the Setas. I think the big challenge is to make them work better in order to improve the performance because we cannot say that we must now develop a fund for training. We have amassed a lot of money in the skills dispensation. Money is available for training. The infrastructure for training is there. Let us look at an optimal use of the money and an optimal functioning of the infrastructure that we have put in place.

On the issue of identifying scarce skills, I think that it is an important point that has been raised and I accept it. It is a point that was raised by the International Investment Council over the weekend where they said to us that one cannot be generic about the issue of skills shortages. You have to be more specific about the types of skills you are running short of, and in addition to that, you must tie your plans for skills development to specific investment plans.

So, if you have a huge project, and you say you are going to be upgrading all our ports, you must know the kinds of skills you will need in order to do the work. You must look at whether you have all the skills and if you do not have them, you must put any specific plans in place to either develop those skills or to source them.

An important point that they also mentioned to us was that the private sector has to be a big player in the development of skills. The investment climate survey which we published last year made a very important point that a lot of firms that had been surveyed indicated that a skills shortage is one of their critical constraints. But when you do a further survey to look at how much training is taking place in South African companies, you will actually find that there isn’t much training that is taking place in South African companies. So, part of what the Jipsa initiative of the Deputy President in terms of Asgisa must do, is to ensure that the private sector becomes more active in the development of skills in the economy.

On the matter of the people of Chinese descent and how we treat them in relation to black economic empowerment, last year when you asked me this question this was my response: I said that the Department of Trade and Industry’s view at the time was that the Chinese-speaking South Africans were not covered by the term “black persons”. I will ask the department to obtain further advice on this matter and we will report to you in due course. And indeed we have received that advice and we are in the process of considering our options. You have to bear in mind also that this is a matter that has now been taken to court and therefore we have to make sure that in pronouncing on the matter, we are keeping in view the fact that this is a matter that has been taken to court.

On the codes of good practice, there is a range of issues that have been raised. They range from the fact that they are complex and that we may be making the investment and the business environments in South Africa difficult. My intention really is to say that in our own view the trends that we are looking at suggest that that is not the case because South Africa is increasingly enjoying rising levels of foreign direct investment. I am not talking about hot money here but real investments in the real economy - sustainable types of investments. What we are starting to see is something that has not happened in South Africa in over 30 years. Over R50 billion of foreign investments flowed into South Africa and half of this is direct investment – foreign direct investment that we are speaking about as opposed to your portfolio-type flows. So we are beginning to see that. But, we are also seeing a lot of black economic empowerment activity taking place in the market place and our own sense actually is that this is something that is starting to become mainstream in the practice of various players in the economy.

I think an important point that I would like to raise is that our own perspective on the codes of good practice is that the codes are actually integrative, in the sense that they link a number of different things that we are doing in order to craft what would be good practice by South African co-operators because it looks at the Employment Equity Act, our small business legislation, Skills Development Act, issues of competition and preferential procurement.

These are all different instruments that we have created at different times to achieve particular objectives. What the codes are doing is to integrate all of these in order to define what we would regard as good practice that helps us to achieve the objectives of great inclusivity and the inclusion in the economy of those that were previously marginalised. So, our own view actually is that we need to persevere in this work; we are concluding the work. We need to persevere and put this dispensation in place because at the end of the day that is what is going to help us to achieve the big objective of greater inclusion in the South African economy. I think we have to be patient with it because it is something that has not been done before and therefore the engagement with the stakeholders is something that tends to take quite a lot of time. But we are actually quite upbeat about the feedback that we are getting and the nature of the interaction that we have with the players in the economy.

In conclusion, Chair, our main focus as the Department of Trade and Industry is really on implementation. We are hugely focused on implementation and the strengthening of our ability to co-ordinate with the different spheres of government. These are some of the big challenges we are trying to respond to. Thank you very much, Chairperson, and all the members for participating in the debate. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Budget Vote No 17 – Labour: The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Chairperson, hon members, ladies and gentlemen, comrades and friends … kudala, kwiminyaka emininzi eyadlulayo, uFrancis Bacon wavuma ukuba ulwazi ngamandla. Wayengazi ukuba loo mazwi akhe amsulwa ayeya kwenza intshukumo enkulu, eyathi yakhulula uluntu ebumnyameni. La mazwi achukumisa iimfundiso zendoda eyayisisisele solwazi, engunozala walo lonke uphando nemfundo esiyilandelayo namhlanje, eyayikho ngaphambi kokuba uYesu azalwe. Loo ndoda ke ibizwa ukuba nguAristotle.

Sihlalo, njengokuba siyiqwalasela iminyaka edlulileyo, sizilungiselela iminyaka ezayo, kukho into ethi: Kukho iminyaka emihlanu yendlala, kunye nemihlanu yentlutha. Kuxhomekeka ke ekubeni iya kuba yeyiphi eya kuthi iqale kuloo minyaka. Asizincedi ke xa sijonga iminyaka edlulileyo, thina sileli sebe. Sisuka siphume amadlu, sibe nelunda ngendlela ookhokho bethu abema ngayo ngolwazi, bakha ikamva lethu eli silingcamlayo namhlanje, besukela kuloo mbali eyayi lucinya nelushica, kwaye inobunzima abathi babunyamezela.

Unyana kaMqhayi, imbongi yesizwe, uthi kwenye yemibongo zakhe:

Phindela phesheya nto kaDube. Phindela phesheya Mafukuzela. Nkamel’ ethwal’iinzingo zeAfrika, ithwale ingxakeko neembandezelo zayo. Ikhe yathwal ezinye yaziphumeza. Yathwal’ ezinye, yathwal’ ezinye kwa nezinye. Thole lenkunzi yaseMpumalanga. Bathi ukuyibiza nguMafukuzela.

UMqhayi wayibonga le ndoda, uGqr John Langalibalele Dube, owaye ngumongameli wokuqala wombutho wesizwe uKhongolozi. Yema le ndoda ingagungqi, ithembile ukuba ngaphaya kobunzima, ubumnyama nobunzithi-nzithi ababe phakathi kwabo kovela ukukhanya. Iingcinezelo neenkxwaleko ababe kuzo azina kuba ngonaphakade. Ubomi obungcono buya kufika njengencindi yobusi nobumyoli okanye ukuyola kobisi.

Ngamandla amagxa nokukhalipha kooMafukuzela, ooSol Plaatjie, oo-O R Tambo, namanye amaqhawe namakhalipha enza ukuba namhlanje sikwazi ukuthi sikhululekile, esikwenzayo negalelo lethu kukukhumbula ezo ntshetshewula zamagorha.

Ulwazi lusabaluleke nanamhlanje, njengokuba lwalubalulekile nakubo. NoMdali wethu undulula ukuba ukungazi sisono, kwaye abo bangaziyo isiphelo sabo sisesihogweni. Ndivumeleni ke ndinicaphulele, ndibethe nje koomofu noozelekazi, ngegalelo leli sebe lethu ngokuhle, kwakunye neengxakana esithe sahlangana nazo kulo nyaka udlulayo, nokuba sijonge ukuthini na kulo siwuphetheyo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[… a long time ago Francis Bacon acknowledged that knowledge is power. He never knew that those innocent words would have a great impact with regard to the liberation of people from darkness. These words support the teachings of a resourceful person who, before the birth of Christ, was the founder of the course of research and education we are following today. This man is called Aristotle.

Chairperson, as we look at the past years, while preparing for the future, there is something that says there are five years of hunger and five years of abundance. Thus, it depends on which years start the cycle. This department cannot help itself when we look at the past. We are delighted about and for the knowledge our ancestors had in building the heritage we are enjoying today. They experienced a difficult past, which they endured.

The son of Mqhayi, the poet of the nation, says in one of his poems:

Phindela phesheya nto kaDube. Phindela phesheya Mafukuzela. Nkamel’ ethwal’iinzingo zeAfrika, ithwale ingxakeko neembandezelo zayo. Ikhe yathwal ezinye yaziphumeza. Yathwal’ ezinye, yathwal’ ezinye kwa nezinye. Thole lenkunzi yaseMpumalanga. Bathi ukuyibiza nguMafukuzela.

Mqhayi praises this man, Dr John Langalibalele Dube, who was the first president of the ANC. He stood firm, knowing that after hardship there is happiness. He knew that the hardships would not last. A better life would be received, which is as sweet as honey or as pure as milk.

With the power and strong will of Mafukuzela, Sol Plaatje, O R Tambo and other heroes and brave men, they made it possible for us to be free. Our contributions are to commemorate them.

Knowledge is as significant today as it was important to them then. Our creators say ignorance is a sin and those who are ignorant end up in hell. Allow me to make a concise reference to some of the contributions made by this department jointly in spite of the difficulties we encountered in the past year, and what our plans are with regard to this year.]

In search of knowledge from those who do not source it from books and websites, I undertook a campaign of izimbizo and visited eight provinces, where I met the most amazing people of our country, who through our programmes saw their quality of life improved.

I’ve heard a number of people, both yesterday and today, acknowledge the beautiful suits that I wear. [Laughter.] And I understand why people are doing so. It is because I don’t have time for suits. One asked me: ”Where is your big hat?” I wear that hat when I visit provinces. [Interjections.] And the khaki, yes. That is the uniform of the volunteers.

One such project is the paprika project in the Free State, where disused mining land was used to produce a range of fresh produce for the local and export markets in which young people are involved. Yesterday a member of one political party decided to confuse the Free State with the Northern Cape, and I don’t know why.

This has proved to be a great source of information on how the government services impact on the lives of the people. I am pleased to say today that some of those people we are working with in some of the projects we sponsor, have honoured us on this day with their presence. Yesterday we brought a group of them along, but, unfortunately, we could not bring them into the NCOP. They would have filled this House.

Allow me to mention a few of these projects. In partnership with Further Education and Training and higher education institutions, we set up the Thuthuka project, which was initiated by Facet, a Seta in the finance and accounting sector in the South African Institute of Chartered Accountants. This project of Thuthuka aims to accelerate the rate of transformation in the sector by increasing the number of black female and male chartered accountants in particular. The project is currently being implemented in the Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and the Limpopo province.

In this project our skills interventions have assisted and continue to assist. Hon members will look at the details because I do not have a lot of time to dwell on a number of them.

However, suffice it to say that we have 152 BCom undergraduates from the University of Fort Hare, 40 of whom have graduated this year and are pursuing a career as chartered accountants. But I can say that our aim was to contribute money for their training, which includes the paprika project I was talking about. The fact that sometimes, after having been trained, people do not follow a particular career cannot be blamed on the Minister of Labour. It must be understood that, as we always say in isiXhosa …

Impazamo katitshala ihamba esitalatweni, iyanxila, yenza izinto ezingezizo, njengabaya bantu ebebesophula izinto apha ngalaa mini. Yimpazamo katitshala leya. Ekamfundisi impazamo sithetha ngayo ezibhasini nasezimokolweni, siyayisebeza kuba yekamfundisi. Ekagqirha yona siyayingcwaba. Ngoko ke akuna kuthi ke xa ndiqeqesha abantu bangalilandeli elo khondo, loo nto uyenze impazamo yomphathiswa, ngoba andiyazi ukuba impazamo yomphathiswa uyithini na yona. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[The teacher’s mistake roams the streets, for example if one got drunk and committed an offence just like the people who vandalised property here the other day, that is the teacher’s mistake. A clergyman’s mistake is talked about on the busses and in the taverns, we make it a secret because it is the reverend’s. We bury a doctor’s mistake. Therefore, you cannot blame the Minister for people who are trained in certain skills and do not do what they are supposed to and make that the Minister’s mistake, as I am not sure what you can do about it if it is the Minister’s mistake.]

About 19 000 students in Eastern Cape schools received extra tuition, because what we are doing is also looking at the matriculants, the Grade 12s, who are focusing on maths, accounting, and English.

You may be thinking that maybe there is something wrong with this Minister; he is not a Minister of Education. Why is he talking about these subjects? It is related to the matter of developing the skills of this nation, because the area of chartered accountancy has been recognised as an area of scarcity in the country. It is better to start with the Grade 12s, and then we follow them up to university, as I have already indicated.

Again, 19 200 learners are following the same path in KwaZulu-Natal and Limpopo. You may be asking: Why KwaZulu-Natal, Limpopo and Eastern Cape? You will remember that these were nodes that were chosen by the President as the poorest provinces. That is why we as the Department of Labour also participated in that programme.

A total of 209 undergraduate BCom students at the University of Limpopo are being prepared for a career in chartered accountancy through extra interventions in partnership with University of Johannesburg, formerly known as the Randse Afrikaanse Universiteit.

Up to 7 200 educators will receive capacity-building because it doesn’t help to concentrate only on the learners and leave the teachers behind. Teachers like myself were never taken through those programmes. Chartered accountancy was meant for white and other people, not people like me. I was only destined to be a teacher or a nurse or umfundisi, ukuba ndibe nethamsanqa. [a minister of religion, if luck is on my side.] So in my view this project is indeed an example of a fruitful partnership.

Chairperson, as I have indicated, I was going to pass by some of the subjects, but I will leave my speech here, because your watch seems to be running too fast for me today; I don’t know why.

The other thing that is a threat to us is the matter of HIV and Aids. It looms large in the labour market arena. It is costing business in terms of working hours lost, training and development of those who come in to replace the deceased. The cost incurred by the families is sometimes hard to measure, but the impact is devastating when the breadwinner dies and the children have to fend for themselves at a tender age.

So, prompted by this picture, my department commissioned an HIV/Aids prevalence study. This is aimed at measuring the magnitude of the problem and to enable us to develop a strategy for dealing with the affected and infected staff. However, South Africa is leading the pack in this regard, particularly in the International Labour Organisation.

You may not believe it but it is a fact. It is a fact. Change your mind, because in the ILO we were the only country that had developed an HIV/Aids code for the workplace. No other country had ever developed this; they copied the example from us. [Applause]. The same applies to the code on disability; they copied it from us. In fact, you can ask hon member Mzondeki. We were with him in Geneva, in that UN building and it was not ready for Mzondeki and his wheelchair, and South Africa showed the way. You may not believe it but it is a fact. Change your mind. You better believe that your country is the best place to be.

I just want to touch on one matter, which is quite important to me at this point and it relates to the labour market’s regulatory impact on SMMEs. It is important that I say this: At the lekgotla of Cabinet in January, it was decided that there should be a comprehensive review of the regulatory environment faced by small and medium businesses, in an attempt to further stimulate the growth and development of this sector. Consequently the President of the Republic, Comrade Thabo Mbeki, in his state of the nation address of 2005, conveyed that decision to the country. That was a decision that had been taken by us in the Cabinet lekgotla of January 2005. This is what he said, and I quote:

In consultation with our social partners, a number of constraints limiting our capacity to embark on a higher growth path will receive our urgent attention. Based on the review of the regulatory framework as it applies to small, medium and micro enterprises, before the end of the year government will complete the system of exemptions for these businesses with regard to taxes, levies as well as central bargaining and other labour arrangements.

Please note what was said: “… as it applies to small, medium and micro enterprises …”. There are people who have a tendency deliberately to misquote the President, even in Parliament, and talk about other things because of ideological problems that some of the members may have. As a result, following that announcement, we commissioned seven research papers in the middle of 2005, which covered labour laws.

Here is the chairperson of our committee who attended one of the meetings, the intention of which was to interrogate those research papers. I really am grateful to her for attending that meeting because at least she could come back with information for the hon members. Those research papers covered labour laws, sector-specific regulations, municipal regulations, bylaws, tax law and administration. It was quite a range of things. But why would people just pick on labour law instead of looking at all these matters? I really don’t know.

These papers did not constitute new empirical evidence. They are available on websites, hon members, and you can read them. But they do not provide any new empirical evidence. They base their analysis on already existing labour market data whilst others were generally based on a conceptual analysis of the current labour market landscape in South Africa.

There was a submission to Cabinet regarding the papers and process followed. We made that submission on those papers in December 2005. The matter was again presented in January this year and the Cabinet resolved that we had to further interrogate the initial findings of those papers which were commissioned by us, and a swift international review, led by the Minister of Labour and supported by the International Labour Organisation and selected international experts was done.

I was reading something written by Carol Paton, who then wrote: “Mdladlana hopes that he will be saved by the International Labour Organisation.” I was saved by Jesus Christ, not by the ILO. That is the mistake that Carol Paton made, not the ILO. The International Labour Organisation is assisting us to do a swift review of the labour market.

I have to take all that information to Nedlac and then from Nedlac to Cabinet. That process is certainly not going to take two days. It is not going to take two days. Anything that is going to affect the rights of workers is crucial. It does not matter whether one has no job, the fact of the matter is that we have the Constitution in the Republic of South Africa. Chapter 2 of the Constitution does give rights even to poor people; even to people with no houses, no water; even to people with absolutely nothing; even the vagrants in the streets of Cape Town have rights, according to the Constitution of the Republic. Those of us who were in the labour movement will know that you dare not touch them in that regard.

I think it is important that I say this because there is a tendency to think that you can just play around with the rights of the people of this country. There is no way that you can do so. Remember, we fought for these rights. It may well be that some of us were spectators at the time. But, of course, we did say ababukeli sobuya ngabo [we would deal with the spectators later on]. Now, that time has not yet come for us to look at those people who were spectators.

I will use this one minute that is left to discuss the following issue. The continuing debate on labour market flexibility versus security is an international debate from which South Africa is not immune. There is a view and pressure on countries for increased flexibility, in an attempt to reinforce competitive power by attracting investment. In fact, one book that I read on economics actually advised all investors elsewhere, not investors in South Africa, to go offshore where there is a possibility of getting cheap labour.

Therefore, the reason why people are threatening us elsewhere is because they are also looking for cheap labour. Other countries are not safe. You can go to other countries, and I can mention a number of them. You can go to Egypt or elsewhere; you do not know where the next bomb will come. With the exception of those hooligans who were breaking down doors here, South Africa is a relatively peaceful place. Everybody wants to come and invest here and therefore the line that they must push says: “Make sure that in South Africa there is cheap labour so that we can come and invest.” Ubaba uMzizi ngeke akuvume lokho; ngeke ayivume leyo nto. [Hon Mzizi will not allow that to happen; he will not allow that to happen.] So I am sure that hon members will support me in this regard.

I cannot finish my speech. I will come back in the last 10 minutes, but I want to keep to the time allocated to me. I can see your clock here is really telling me “time remaining”. I don’t want you to remove me from the podium; I am very disciplined. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you, Minister. Some people pretend they can’t see the time until the Chair calls them to order. Thank you very much.

Ms M P THEMBA: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, as we celebrate the centenary of the Bambatha rebellion this year, we are reminded of the fighting spirit of our people, whereby in the face of oppression they defended what was theirs. When the colonisers arrived on our shores, they underestimated Africans and regarded us as backward and barbaric people, who lived freely on this land.

One of the things that they had forgotten was that it doesn’t take a pen and fancy clothes to take up arms and defend your dignity and pride. Although our people suffered defeat, we shall, however, draw lessons of courage and heroism from this history, as we continuously are inspired to pursue and further advance our national democratic revolution.

Our Constitution has restored the dignity of all South Africans, including the vulnerable farm and domestic workers. Government intervention is necessary where the dignity of other human beings is being trampled upon. Such victories are also met with new challenges, as challenges change form and shape. Casualisation of work is the new form of oppression for our people, as the nature of casualisation is based on insecurity of work through nonpermanent contracts where people can be hired and fired at the drop of a hat.

If that were the definition of flexibility of the labour market, then we would prefer one that is orthodox and rigid. Through our policies the ANC has advanced the protection of workers over the past three years through the setting of minimum wages, and working conditions for domestic workers, the taxi industry, and farm workers.

In dealing with the worst forms of child labour through means which include projects on the commercial and sexual exploitation of children, child trafficking, and cases of children being used by adults to commit illegal activities, in 2005 Cabinet rectified the Child Labour Action Programme. It is currently being implemented, and more awareness is being raised around it.

Notwithstanding policy gains, unemployment at 27,8% is still South Africa’s major scourge, and the youth are mostly affected. According to the report by the Human Science Research Council, which was compiled for the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, in spite of the economy that is prospering, by many measures - with some exception - the workforce has a low level of skills. Formal sector employment is slow, and there is a debate about the extent to which the informal economy is creating jobs and sustainable livelihoods.

With unemployment so rampant, the call by the Deputy President to join hands and address underdevelopment and unemployment through the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa, Asgisa, reverses the bleak picture painted by most recent findings in the struggle against unemployment. Up to 69 786 people were trained during the 2005-06 social development funding window, and 71% of these were placed in income- generating opportunities, which include the Expanded Public Works Programme.

Modulasetulo, Tekanyetsokabo ya Badiri e lebagane le tlhokagalo ya bokgoni. Go tsenngwa tirisong ga National Skills Development Strategy sa 2005-2010, go tla lebelela le go fokotsa botlhokatiro le bohumanegi ka halofo mo ngwageng wa 2014. Lenaane le, le tla mekamekana le tlhokagalo ya bokgoni ka go beeletsa matlole le go ema Asgisa nokeng.

Bokgoni jwa diseketara tsa moruo di le 23, bo tla lebagana le lenaanetsamaiso la National Skills Development Strategy sa 2005-2010. Di- Seta tse di sa direng ka tshwanelo, di tshwanetse go tsamaisana le boikuelo jwa gore Maaforika Borwa a dirisane mmogo go tlhabolola matshelo a batho le go godisa moruo.

Go na le bothata fa baithuti ba le 50 000 ba ikatisetsa go nna le bokgoni mme go atlege ba le 25 000. Re tshwanetse go dira dipatlisiso go rarabolola bothata jo.

Go botlhokwa gore batho ba fiwe tshedimosetso ka ga manaane a puso le gore a ka thusa batho jang. Sekao ke Indlela, Indlela ke Institute for the National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour Assessments. Seo ke sengwe sa ditheo tsa kgale mo nageng, sa go tlhatlhoba kgwebo.

Mo nakong e ya tlhokagalo ya bokgoni, go botlhokwa gore setšhaba se itse ka ditirelo tse. O ke mokgwa mongwe o Lefapha la Badiri le ka fitlhelelang boikuelo jwa Motlatsa-Tautona la Joint Initiative for Priority Skills Acquisition, Jipsa, go lebana le botlhokwa jwa artisanship [bodira-ka- diatla] le bokgoni jwa sethekeniki mo go tlhabololeng mafaratlhatlha. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, this Budget Vote of the Department of Labour faces the challenge of addressing the lack of skills. The implementation of the National Skills Strategy Development of 2005-2010 aims at reducing unemployment and poverty by half by 2014. This programme will furthermore address the lack of skills by investing funds and supporting Asgisa.

The 23 sectors meant for skills development will adopt the National Skills Development Strategy of 2005-2010, The Setas which do not perform as expected must realign themselves with the call made to South Africans that they should work together to improve the lives of the people and grow the economy.

It is unacceptable when about 50 000 students are taken through a training programme and only 25 000 manage to pass. An investigation should be undertaken to resolve the matter.

It is very important to provide people with information about government programmes and advise them accordingly on how to deal with their problems. One example is Indlela, the Institute for National Development of Learnerships, Employment Skills and Labour Assessments. This is one of the old institutions in the country that does business assessments.

In this time of skills shortages, it becomes very important that the community knows about these services. This is the only way in which the Department of Labour can carry forward the Joint Initiative for Priority Skills Acquisition, Jipsa, call made by the Deputy Minister, in relation to the importance of artisanships and technological skills to improve the networks.]

With that being said, there are opportunists who are using the desperate call in regard to skills shortages to further their own agendas. The recent argument, which suggests that government should cease affirmative action programmes as it contributes to the marginalisation of a particular section of the population that has skills, is not only self-serving but also pernicious in terms of what we are trying to achieve as a nation.

As we celebrate 10 years of our Constitution, it is also important to mention the ANC’s statement on the Employment Equity Bill, which said that the democratic principles espoused in the Constitution have to find expression in the elimination of discrimination in all spheres of social life, especially in the workplace or in the labour market.

Although a lot has been gained with regard to employment equity - there are more black business owners, and the number of black managers and professionals is increasing - a lot still needs to be done to filter that achievement through to all South Africans. The process of aligning the Broad-based Black Economic Empowerment Act of 2003 with the Employment Equity Act of 1998 should be accelerated between the Department of Labour and the Department of Trade and Industry, as this will assist with the Asigsa effort of empowering the previously disadvantaged.

Sihlalo, nemalunga lahlon, njengoba sigubha lomkhosi weminyaka lelishumi yeMtsetfosisekelo, asichubekeni nekuletsa litsemba enhlanganweni ye ANC kanye nakulolubumbano lwayo njengoba sisachubeka nekulwa nebuphuya, noko singatikhohlwa letinselele lesibukene nato kwanyalo.

Imiphumela yelukhetfo lwabohulumende basekhaya isivusetele kabusha yaze yasicinisekisa ekutseni i-ANC isesendleleni lengiyo ekuniketeni ngetidzingo kubantfu. Kusukela Emculwini Wenkhululeko kuya kuMtsetfosisekelo walelive letfu, inkhulumo yinye itsi: “Bantfu batawubusa”. (Translation of Siswati paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson and hon members, as we celebrate the 10th anniversary of the Constitution, let us continue to have hope in the ANC movement and its unity as we continue to fight against poverty; not forgetting the challenges that we are currently facing.

The results of the local government elections have given us the reassurance that the ANC is still on course with meeting the needs of the people. Starting with the Freedom Charter, to the Constitution of our country, there is one quote that goes: “The people shall govern”.]

The committee supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Ms J F TERBLANCHE: Hon Chair and the Minister, the events of the last couple of days in respect of the ongoing industrial action by Satawu have been denounced by many of my colleagues in Parliament and by government. Responses from Khayelitsha residents on SABC TV this morning again brought home to us how costly and destructive these events are for the poor who have to find costly alternatives to their regular modes of public transport. They also have to be confronted with intimidation and violence on top of their already taxing daily grind.

Thus, on behalf of the DA, its constituents and, I believe, the majority of South Africans, I would once again like to condemn the violence, the killing, the destruction and coercion that have characterised these strikes.

But let us understand it quite clearly: far from merely being a regrettable and deplorable display of ignorance and disrespect from a small group of ill-employed thugs; these and other, hopefully, more peaceful strikes, such as those that are happening around the country today … [Interjections.] … are a sure sign that the already palpable feeling of anger, disillusionment and betrayal at government’s inaction with regard to job creation is starting to heat up rapidly.

The question I would like to ask today is: Can the leaders of unionised labour tell their supporters and us in all honesty that they are sincerely and successfully answering the workers’ call …

Mr E M SOGONI: Chairperson, I think the member is misleading this House if she says that there are people who have died as a result of the strike. I am not sure which court has proved that those people killed were indeed killed by the people who are on strike. I think it would be wrong for this House to allow that statement to go unchallenged. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon member, can we allow the member to continue? I believe that members from other political parties will also respond to that issue. Continue, hon member.

Ms J F TERBLANCHE: Thank you. Can the leaders of the trade unions and the trade union federations honestly stand before us and say that they have prioritised the interests and most valid frustrations of their members above the politics of race, patronage and loyalty? The answer I would like to venture is a resounding no.

Allow me to illustrate on the basis of three inalienable truths, that more than a decade into our democracy, the unions still don’t seem to be the so- called guardians of workers’ rights and the discourse they engage in.

Industrial action, whether violent and unrestrained or organised and orderly, has failed dismally to effect any significant change in economic policy in postapartheid South Africa and has fallen on the deaf ears of the whole ANC and the ANC-led government. Undermining the functioning of an education system already failing to produce suitably skilled individuals to grow our economy and create jobs, and paralysing our manufacturing and business sectors for any period of time, whether predetermined or not, does job creation and job-creating economic growth no favours.

In societies where democracy is upheld and respect for the law remains, the most effective method for a significant portion of the electorate - such as the workers of a country - to display displeasure with government policy and policy implementation is to withdraw its mandate.

The time has come for labour to realise that in order to force the governing party to deal swiftly and decisively with the problem of unemployment it can no longer contribute to a situation that continues to foster ignorance and inaction from the government. Continued engagement in the petty politics of factionalism will not achieve this, nor will the labour movement’s tendency to sacrifice its most talented leaders in favour of the narrow pursuits of the executive arm of government. Government will need to feel the pain that is felt by millions of South African where it hurts most – at the ballot box.

The time has come for the ANC government to be made patently aware that the support of the workers of this country is no longer assured. The DA agrees with the workers of this country on the importance of job creation and poverty alleviation for the good of all South Africans and shares many of its concerns regarding these issues.

We call on the workers of this country to unite with us in asking the following questions: How can the government claim to be the driver of a yet unseen skills revolution and job creation if it taxes employment in order to sustain the wasteful and ineffective Sector Education and Training Authority bureaucracy, when it could easily and affordably make regulated demand-based skills development and education attractive to employers through tax incentives?

How can the government claim to be promoting education, entrepreneurial activity and job creation if millions of school-leavers are left with little or no access to further studies, internship opportunities or finance with which to start a business, when these things could be so effectively addressed by way of opportunity vouchers?

Finally, how can government claim to be serious in its attempts to reduce casualisation and unemployment when it offers no incentives for new permanent jobs that are created, especially when revenue over-runs could easily finance this?

The time has come for the bearers of the hopes and aspirations of those upon whose backs the wealth of this country is being built to realise that yet another strike will not only see us another step further away from getting answers to these questions, but possibly also another leap away from together implementing ready solutions that could effectively deal with the crisis at hand. [Applause.]

Mnu D D GAMEDE: Ngiyabonga Sihlalo, Ngqongqoshe, namalungu onke akhona nahloniphekile alapha eNdlini. Kujwayelekile ukuthi abanye abantu abathile ngabodwana noma ezinye izinhlangano ezithile zizenze ongqoshishilizi ekukhulumeleni nasekulweleni amalungelo abasebenzi. Ngaleso sizathu, noma ngizobuya ngibuye kulokhu, kubalulekile ukuthi kesidlule kulo lolu daba ukuze bazi labo bantu nalezo zinhlangano ukuthi kusukwa kude kabi nomzabalazo, ikakhulukazi nezinhlangano zabansebenzi.

USomqulu weNkululeko kaKhongolose owaziwa nge-Freedom Charter, ibhukwana likaKhongolose elikhuluma ngokulungela ukuphatha okubizwa phecelezi, i- Ready to Govern document, uMthethosisekelo waseNingizimu Afrika esigubha iminyaka elishumi waba khona kanye noMthethosisekelo kaKhongolose konke lokhu kukhuluma ngamasu, amaqhinga, amalungelo abasebenzi kanye nokufanele kwenziwe yilowo hulumeni ophethe. Asikhumbuli ngisho nangelilodwa ilanga amanye amaqembu asengoqhibukhowe njengo-DA ekhuluma ngalezi zinto.

Thina njengoKhongolse sisuka kude nalo mzalabazo. Kusuka ngo-1919 kusungulwa i-Industrial and Commercial Union eyasungulwa ngasekho u-Clemens Kadali. Abasebenzi babesathwele nzima nangaleso sikhathi; babebandlulwa ngenxa yebala; abasebenzi abamnyama babengenamalungelo bengamathuluzi okusebenza nje kuphela, babengavunyelwe ukuthuthukisa ulwazi lwabo, babengavunyelwe ukujoyina izinyunyana, babexhazwa kakhulu kusukela ngo-1886 ngalesi sikhathi kutholakala igolide, bashayelwa umthetho owehlukanisa amaholo owawubizwa nge-1925 Wage Act, base beshayelwa umthetho owawubaphoqa ukuthi bangasebenzi eminye imisebenzi owawubizwa nge-Colour Bar Act ngo-

1. Zonke lezi zinto zenza ukuba inhlangano yabantu, uKhongolose, isukume.

Emva kwenkululeko eyalethwa ngu-Khongolose ngo-1994, manje sesinomnyango wezabasebenzi okwazi ukwenza izimpilo zabasebenzi zibe ngcono, okwazi ukufaka igalelo ukuze abatshali bezimali bakwazi ukusebenza nokwazi ukwenza isimo sezomnotho ezweni samukeleke. Nazi ezinye izinhlaka ezisungulwe yilo hulumeni oholwa u-Khongolose: Kukhona i-National Skills Authority, i- Unemployment Insurance Fund, i-Compensation Fund, i-National Productivity Institute, i-Sector Education and Training Authorities - ama-23 awo – i- National Economic Development and Labour Council eyaziwa nge-Nedlec, i- Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration eyaziwa nge-CCMA kanye noMsobomvu Youth Fund. Zonke lezi zinhlaka ezingenhla zazingekho ngaphambi kuka-1994. Zibe khona emveni kokuba uKhongolose esethathe umbuso nalo mnyango.

Lo mnyango usuwenze nemithetho efana nokuqashwa ngokulingana obizwa nge- Employment Equity Act. Sekukhona ne … (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mr D D GAMEDE: Thank you, Chairperson. Minister and hon members present in this House, it is usual for certain individuals and political parties to act as if they are at the forefront in speaking and fighting for workers’ rights. For that reason - I will come back to this - it is important to touch on this issue so that these people and parties will know that we have come a long way with the struggle, particularly with labour movements.

The African National Congress’s Freedom Charter is known as the Freedom Charter; the document that talks about being ready to govern, which is known as the Ready-to-Govern document; the Constitution of South Africa, whose remarkable 10 years we are celebrating, and the Constitution of the African National Congress all talk about plans, strategies, workers’ rights and what needs to be done by the government in power. We don’t remember any party that is mushrooming, like the DA, talking about these issues.

The African National Congress has come a long way with the struggle since 1919, at the formation of the Industrial and Commercial Union, which was formed by the late of Clemens Kadali. During that time it was difficult for the workers; they were discriminated against on the basis of race. Black workers didn’t have rights and were only used as working tools; they were not allowed to improve their knowledge; they were not allowed to join unions; they were subjected to unfair labour practices from 1886, after the discovery of gold; they were subjected to the 1925 Wage Act. They were also subjected to a law that prohibited them from doing certain jobs, called the Colour Bar Act of 1926. All this caused the people’s party, the African National Congress, to stand up.

After the freedom that was brought about by the African National Congress in 1994, we have a labour department that is capable of changing the workers’ lives for the better. It is able to contribute so that investors are able to work and contribute to economic growth. There is the National Skills Authority; the Unemployment Insurance Fund; the Compensation Fund; the National Productivity Institute; 23 Sector Education and Training Authorities; the National Economic Development and Labour Council, known as Nedlac; the Commission for Conciliation, Mediation and Arbitration, known as the CCMA; and the Umsobomvu Youth Fund. None of the above-mentioned structures were in existence before 1994. They were created when the African National Congress came into power.

This department also came up with laws such as the Employment Equity Act. There is also …]

… a code of good practice for handling sexual harassment cases in the workplace. Lo Mnyango ubambe iqhaza elikhulu ekuvikeleni abasebenzi abangakwazi ukuzivikela. Kwamukelwe ngisho, njengoba usihlalo wekomidi eseshilo, i- Labour Programme of Action; kwavikelwa ukuxhashazwa kwabasebenzi basemapulazini, abasezindlini, abasezitolo; kanye nokushaywa kwemithetho ebizwa ngama-Sectoral Determination. SiwuKhongolose siyawuncoma lo mnyango ngegalelo nangomsebenzi owenzile e-Afrika yonkana nasemhlabeni jikelele.

Sibonile igalelo elenziwe yilo mnyango enhlanganweni yezemisebenzi emhlabeni jikelele ebizwa nge-International Labour Organistion, njengoba uNgqongqoshe kade esho, ku-African Union, ku-African Regional Labour Administration Centre, Southern African Development Community nakwezinye izinhlaka ezinjalo. Siyazibona izinhlelo zokufundisa amakhono ezixhaswa yilo mnyango, ukubamba iqhaza ekufukuleni amakhono ashodayo kanye nokusebenzisana neminye iminyango ukuze kuthuthukiswe amakhono, ikakhulukazi laba abakhubazekile.

Ngikubuyisele emuva kancane nje Sihlalo, ngiyakhumbula uNgqongqoshe efika e- KZN lapho ngihlala ngakhona e-Gingindlovu ezobona abasebenzi basemapulazini e-Tamarin. Wafika futhi nase-Richards Bay mzukwane kunomgubho wokukhula ngezokuphepha emsebenzini lapho wakhombisa ukuzinikela kwakhe ekuvikeleni ukuxhashazwa kwabantwana. Komunye umhlangano wasukuma wabuza abasebenzi basemapulazini ukuthi baneminyaka emingaki. Wayefuna ukuziqinisekisa ukuthi- ke bafanele yini ukusebenza emapulazini.

Sibabonile abahloli balo Mnyango, ikakhulukazi KwaZulu-Natali bevakashela izimboni ezikhiqiza izingubo zokugqoka koNyukhasela nako-Danhauser ukuvikela izimo abasebenzi abasebenza ngaphansi kwazo. Njenge-ANC siyaseseka lesi sabiwomali ukuze lo Mnyango uqhubeke nomsebenzi wawo.

Sengizogcina nokho, noma kunjalo sinazo ezinye izinselelo. Siyazi njengoba omunye kade ekhuluma ngokuqashwa ngetoho ukuthi uhlelo lolo oluseyinselelo olusemgqeni eMnyangweni. UNgqongqoshe ngonyaka odlule futhi wakusho ukuthi iyona nto azoyisukumela kakhulu. Okwesibili, ukubukisisa kakubusha imithetho yabasebenza ngezinkontileka osekudume kakhulu ezitolo nakwezinye izindawo. Uma sengigcina-ke … (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[This department is playing a major role in protecting the workers who are unable to protect themselves. We have also accepted, as the chairperson of the committee has indicated, the Labour Programme of Action, in terms of which domestic workers, shop workers and farmworkers are protected, and the implementation of the law called the Sectoral Determination Act. The African National Congress commends this department for the role it has played and the work that it has done in Africa and the whole world.

We have seen the role that has been played by this department in the International Labour Organisation and, as the Minister has said, in the African Union, the African Labour Administration Centre, the Southern African Development Community and other organisations. We also have skills development projects that are sponsored by this department, the development of scarce skills and the collaboration with other departments, particularly with regard to physically challenged people.

Chairperson, let me go back a little bit. I remember when the Minister came to the place where I live, Gingindlovu in KwaZulu-Natal, to visit farmworkers at Tamarin. He also came to Richards Bay during the commemoration of the World Day for Safety and Health at Work, where he showed his dedication to protecting children. He also asked farmworkers questions to determine their age. He wanted to make sure that they were permitted to work on farms.

We have also witnessed work inspectors, particularly in KwaZulu-Natal, visiting clothing factories in Newcastle and Danhauser to assess the conditions under which workers are working. The ANC supports this budget so that this department will continue to carry out its mandate.

However, we still have challenges. We know, as someone has said, that temporary employment is a challenge for this department. The Minister said last year that he was going deal with this issue seriously. Secondly, it is necessary to revisit the laws that apply to contract workers, a popular concept in shops and other places. In conclusion …]

It is correct to give the correct perspective and not what the hon member has said - that the government has failed to create work. Actually, research has shown, and the people have proven it by voting for the ANC, that the situation is better today than it was yesterday, and that it is going to be better tomorrow. It is even misleading to say that the ANC turns a deaf ear, because then it wouldn’t have established all these structures and all these organisations.

The proof of this is that millions and millions of people have actually voted for the ANC. Now, the question is: Since when is the DA leading issues on workers, because they have been leading issues on the exploitation of workers? [Interjections.] The challenges we face today are that we need a South Africa that belongs to all that we are all equal and that we need government that serves the interests of the people. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms A N T MCHUNU: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister of Labour, hon members of the House, chairperson of the labour select committee and the committed and dedicated staff of this department, hon members of this House are products of labour. When God creates there is labour, use of energy and sweat involved. [Interjections.]

In the work environment of production or caring there is use of energy and there is sweating. In return, there is remuneration for the job done. Jobs cannot be done well without training or on-the-floor induction and retraining.

The Department of Labour has ensured that there are training programmes for various sectors. These are done in conjunction with the private sector in order to deal with the 40% rate of unemployment among the youth. The cry of the unemployed youth still persists, and it is the hon members of this House who have to put their heads together and devise or promote strategies for the employment of youth and women.

Labour involvement starts at conception, so our children have to know that they are the product of labour and therefore have to remunerate us with smiles, and with saying “please” and “thank you”. Children’s rights to survival and growth have to be ensured, but children have to be responsible for their parents to make sure that their parents remain healthy for as long as possible and avoid strokes, heart diseases and other diseases caused by stressful demands with no appreciation. Children have to grow up knowing that there is give and take, and this must ensure quality giving and taking with integrity and honesty.

In the workplace workers give of their best in production, or should be trained to do so and instructed to do so. As workers we have to do our best for the sake of our country and for the economy of our country as well. Where there are unfair labour practices, labour unions are there to bargain for workers. But the first one to bargain on behalf of a worker should be the worker himself or herself – always being in demand for multipurpose scenarios.

The people of Africa are blessed with high levels of energy and are capable of working hard, and it is unfortunate that they were identified by the whole world as hewers of wood and tillers of land in other countries. That is why the slaves in other countries came from Africa. This is the quality of energy that must be used to develop our South Africa, with this energy being matched with appropriate remuneration.

Professionals, such as nurses, teachers, social workers and policemen must be persuaded to go on their marches during lunch times because of the caring type of work they do. Their functioning means life and death to the South African nation. As people who care for our lives, they also need to be cared for. In some firms tea and coffee vending machines are provided for the staff. In our budget we have to consider this minimal privilege for the life carers – just tea and coffee in all our institutions to give our staff energy to go on with their work.

Staff in hospitals and clinics do care for very ill people, especially those with HIV/Aids, as our hon Minister stated. You can imagine what it must be like giving out bedpans continually in a ward to people who have nonstop diarrhoea, or what it must be like having to change napkins continually because of nonstop diarrhoea. The staff end up being so exhausted that they are ultimately viewed as being cold-hearted and uncaring. If the carer is not cared for, the service is adversely affected.

Labour demands are there and have to be noted and dealt with. Understaffing is another problem that has to be noted. People who offer volunteer services need to be assisted with travel fare and lunch. The IFP supports the budget, and feels that there is a need to spread information to all corners of our country. I thank you, Madam Chair. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon members, there is a clock there. Therefore I want to appeal to all of you to look at the clock and follow the example set by the Minister.

I now call the hon Mabe. I have called the hon Mabe. [Interjections.] Hon members, I’m the one who has the speakers’ list. Therefore if I call the member, the member must come to the podium.

Mrs E S MABE: Hon Chairperson and hon Deputy Chairperson - if they are in the House – hon Minister and Members of Parliament, this year is the year in which we celebrate 10 years of our Constitution, a constitution which is highly acclaimed as the best in the world. The foundation of the Constitution is based on the vision of our forebears that culminated in the adoption of the Freedom Charter.

In my input today I will look at the progress and the distance traversed in the implementation of the second-generation rights enshrined in our Constitution and, in general, at poverty alleviation and unemployment under the stewardship of the Department of Labour.

My areas of focus in particular will be the following, namely the UIF, not the party of Mr Hendrickse but the Unemployment Insurance Fund; the Sector Education and Training Authorities; and the International Labour Organisation.

Coming to the UIF, we note with pride that at least people are now accessing the service much better than before owing to the mobile units that the department provided. In my province, the Free State, we are proud to say that because of the mobile units the department is now reaching about 3 985 people in the most rural parts of our province. This number is in addition to the number of people who had already been reached before these units came into being.

It would not be fair of me not to mention that the department has also succeeded in reducing the timeframes for processing UIF claims. This is because previously people would wait for a period of about six weeks or more before they would get their first payment. Today that is a thing of the past as people get their money faster than ever before.

All this is happening because of the new electronic fund transfer system. This system has also helped our people in opening Mzanzi savings accounts, especially those who did not even have banking accounts before. For this we commend the department. But as it is clearly stated in the Freedom Charter that there shall be jobs and security, unemployment remains a challenge.

Unemployment statistics clearly show that even after having received UIF payment there are few chances of our people accessing jobs. Therefore that is where the social security net is required, as unemployment is unacceptably high.

The number of people living in grinding poverty is over 20 million. That is what is being highlighted by Cosatu countrywide today. Therefore it is expected that the programmes that are contemplated or unleashed by our developmental and caring state will assist in ensuring that we meet our Millennium Development Goal of halving poverty and unemployment by 2014.

Minister, the issue of the massive casualisation and subcontracting of labour in this country undermines the objective of workers to earn a living wage. A solution has to be found to end this particular problem.

The Minister is to be commended for convening a round-table discussion among the social forces of our society at Emperor’s Palace in Johannesburg at which the flexibility and nonflexibility of the labour market was discussed. We, as Parliament, hope that this matter will be resolved once and for all.

Regarding the Setas, skills development in South Africa is a central challenge, as was noted by the Growth and Development Summit. It is only by increasing the skills capacity in critical areas that South Africa can grow its economy and grow as a country. It is within this context that the Sector Education and Training Authorities were conceived as agents for economic growth and development to enable the large number of South Africans at the bottom end of the economy, who are illiterate, to play a more meaningful role in development.

Since 1994 this democratic government has introduced various pieces of legislation that are expected to deal with the development of skills. This legislation and the policies and implementation strategies recognise the need for a labour force that possesses the skills to meet the challenges of a changing and competitive global environment.

These are good and visionary policies. A major challenge is in the implementation. Let me highlight and take one Seta as an example from the 25 Setas established to manage the many skills development and training needs. The Manufacturing, Engineering and Related Services Seta, Merseta, covers metal and engineering, auto manufacturing, motor retail and components, new tyre and plastics industries.

The main duties and functions of this Seta are the following: to develop and implement a sector skills plan; to assist and encourage employers to prepare workplace skills plans and implement these plans in order to achieve the objectives of the National Skills Development Strategy; to develop and administer learnerships which include traditional apprenticeships that ultimately lead to a formal qualification; to implement the National Qualifications Framework; to accredit education and training providers; to report to the SA Qualifications Authority; to administer the levy grant system; and to administer a discretionary cash grant.

Allow me also to highlight the fact that there are some challenges regarding this very Seta. At the Growth and Development Summit that took place in 2003, it was agreed that 8 831 unemployed learners would be enrolled for learnerships in this Seta by May 2004. According to the Merseta newsletter of March 2004, there were only 120 learners registered for learnerships, while Merseta had 80 learnership programmes. This means that we did not meet the target of 8 831 unemployed learners. It still remains a challenge to meet this Growth and Development Summit goal.

Therefore the following will be important for us to consider whilst we are still trying to move forward. Since the inception of Merseta in 2000, how many learners have completed learnership programmes? How many companies have participated in the learnership programmes in the sector? How many of these learners were employed after completing the learnership? Were there learners that dropped out of the learnership programme? What is the breakdown of the total number? There are other questions that one may ask.

I think responses to these questions will or might assist us in trying to reach the target we set. As Comrade Gamede said, today is better than yesterday; therefore tomorrow will be better than today.

I’m not sure whether time will allow me, but I wanted again to highlight the International Labour Organisation. It is a United Nations special agency that works towards the promotion of social justice and internationally recognised human and labour rights. It was founded in 1919 and became the first specialised agency of the UN in 1946.

The objectives of this particular agency are as follows. One of the objectives is to promote and raise standards and fundamental principles and rights at work on matters which include child labour, something that we are also concerned about in this country. Another objective is to create greater opportunities for women and men to secure decent employment and income – which therefore means looking at employment policy support; knowledge, skills and employability support and employment creation.

With regard to the ILO, we would also like to commend our government for trying, with all means possible, to strengthen this organisation with the good practices that it exercises here in our country. So the Free State and the select committee support this Vote. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr N D HENDRICKSE: Hon Chair, hon Minister and hon members, the recent strike activity and associated chaos is a reminder of the important role the Ministry of Labour can play in talking to the stakeholders to end the carnage of the security sector strikes.

It is therefore evident that one can question the role of Nedlac in terms of negotiated disputes, settlement and consensus-building. Indeed, many commentators have called for a review of how Nedlac operates and this issue should feature on the agenda going forward.

The increasing use of child labour and the abuse of rights of farmworkers require urgent monitoring by the department. The legislation governing the eviction of farmworkers is not working. As I speak, farmworkers are being evicted arbitrarily right now. The Minister, together with the Minister of Agriculture, should look into this issue - from Constantia down to Groot Drakenstein, to Stellenbosch, to Paarl, to Robertson. If they are not throwing them out right now they are threatening to throw them out willy- nilly, and I think we need to look at that very urgently, Mr Minister.

The National Manpower Development Fund money was not spent due to the absence of structures. This type of problem seems to be systemic in government and it’s unacceptable.

It is interesting that the Minister of Trade and Industry has, via the press, made a call for the reintroduction of apprenticeships as this is a more effective method of equipping trainees with both practical and theoretical skills. I sincerely hope that the Minister of Labour will follow this train of thought and comment on it sometime in the future.

There could be opportunities developed in government workshops since the Navy could take hundreds of people. The workshops are empty at the moment where young people can be given opportunities. Much focus has been on job creation in the call centre industry. With call centres, we have seen temporary jobs largely held by young people being abused in terms of hours worked and being temporary, never ever becoming permanent in that sector. I know, Mr Minister, you have just commented on this, but I want to comment that I am happy that you are looking at this.

In conclusion, the effect of much legislation on small businesses creates a large compliance burden, which is costly and time-consuming. This issue has to be raised at Nedlac by the relevant stakeholders. Small businesses just cannot keep up. I think all of us agree that it is about employment and giving employment to people on the one hand, and protecting their rights on the other. But, coming from a background also of struggle, I honestly think we should ask you to look at it. Thank you, Madam Chair.

Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Hon Chairperson, the hon Minister quite correctly referred to the importance of knowledge in his speech. I also took the liberty of getting his speech from the internet before he started yesterday in the National Assembly.

In that particular speech - he also repeated that today - he referred to the training of 19 000 students, particularly from the Eastern Cape, to receive extra tuition in mathematics, English and accounting to help prepare them for entry into university programmes in financial accounting and other financial management fields. This is very important.

Also the Thuthuka Project, where scarce skills are to be identified, is necessary. Very importantly, he referred to the fact that students from the rural and poor provinces are going to be prioritised.

En dit is ‘n baie, baie goeie ding. Die vraag aan die agb Minister is: As die studente van daardie arm en landelike gebiede gewerf word om universiteit toe te gaan, gaan hulle terug na daardie arm en problematiese provinsies, of beweeg hulle uit en neem mens dan eintlik die room van dié provinsies se skoliere weg? Gaan hulle terug om weer iets terug te ploeg in die gebiede waarvandaan hulle gekom het? Skep hulle weer verdere werkgeleenthede? Dit is die vraagstuk wat ek dink baie belangrik is en waaraan die regering, en spesifiek die Minister, kan aandag gee.

Hy’t ook heeltemal tereg verwys na ‘n databasis wat opgestel gaan word waarin spesifieke, skaars kundighede wat benodig word, opgeneem gaan word, en wat die tekorte gaan identifiseer wat die ekonomie inderdaad daar sal nodig hê.

Die vraag is net … hy’t ook gesê, en hy’t dit so uitgedruk: “Where skills are needed, we will develop or source them.” Dit is baie belangrik - “source them”. As ons kom by “source” - en dit is belangrik dat dit gedoen moet word - is die vraag: Word hulle ge-“source” van die buiteland of in die binneland, waar daar ook tog ‘n bepaalde groot mate van kundigheid en ervaring is? As dit nie binnelands beskikbaar is nie, kan mens aanvaar dat dit buitelands gewerf moet word. As die Minister daarop sal reageer, sal dit baie goed wees. Daar is, in elk geval, talle werkloses in Suid-Afrika wat aandag kan kry.

En dan net ten slotte in die enkele sekondes wat oorbly; dit is ook baie goed dat die Minister ‘n openhartigheid geopenbaar het om te kyk na kwelpunte met betrekking tot arbeidswette. Baie dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[And this is very much a good thing. The question to the hon Minister is: If students from those indigent and rural areas are recruited to go to university, do they return to those indigent and problematic provinces, or do they move out and actually take the cream of the scholars away from these provinces? Do they return to plough something back into the areas they come from? Do they in turn create further job opportunities? I think this is the crucial issue that the government, and the Minister in particular, should address themselves to.

He has also quite correctly referred to a database that is going to be created which will contain details of specific, scarce skills that are required. This database will identify the deficiencies with regard to what the economy in fact needs.

The question is just … he also said, and he expressed it like this: “Where skills are needed, we will develop or source them.” This is very important - “source them”. If we refer to “source” - and it is essential that this should be done - the question is: Are they being sourced from outside or inside the country, where there is after all also a great measure of specific skills and experience. If these skills are not available in the country, one can accept that they have to be sourced from outside the country. If the Minister would respond to that, it would be good. In any case, there are many unemployed people in South Africa who can be taken into consideration.

And to conclude then in the few seconds that remain, it is also a very good thing that the Minister has shown an openheartedness in considering problem areas regarding labour laws. Thank you very much.]

Mr J M SIBIYA: Comrade Chairperson, hon Minister, I can’t see the Deputy Ministers, although perhaps they are there. If they are here, that’s well and good. Colleagues, comrades, ladies and gentlemen, the ANC knows and understands that workers are the backbone of any economy, including our own.

The ANC also knows and understands that trade unionism is a special movement for workers and workers only. The ANC also knows that workers are part and parcel of our people. When we say “our people”, the workers are part and parcel of those people we are referring to. It is also aware that violence is wayward behaviour and that it cannot be condoned by any reasonable person.

The ANC is also aware that the workers should have their rights protected by law like any other individual or any other citizen, and if we have a situation in which some South Africans confuse the wayward behaviour of individuals with a legal activity like a strike, then we have a problem. That problem is usually a manifestation or a symptom of what I choose to call “political hallucination” for which I don’t know of any cure, and that’s unfortunate. [Laughter.] If we have some South Africans with that problem, it’s a pity because they will have very little to contribute towards the development of our country. Perhaps we need to institute specific research to find a cure, not for Aids this time, but for political hallucinations. [Laughter.]

Comrades, at the very same congress I spoke about earlier, our then president, Oliver Tambo, went further and said:

We of the African National Congress visualise a South Africa in which the people shall govern, in which all shall enjoy equal rights and shall be equal before the law. We aim to establish in our country a society free of discrimination and exclusion.

Now, if any of our people – by “our people” I mean any South African - believe that workers’ rights should not be protected by law, then they are trying to reintroduce through the back door the very exclusion and discrimination our late President referred to, and we can’t accept that.

When the Minister was talking here, I listened very carefully. He referred to “the violence by hooligans”. He didn’t refer to everyone who demonstrated, but only to a few individuals. And the ANC is also aware that the leaders of the trade unions concerned or who are relevant to the strike, made a point very clearly that they condemned violence and that if any of their members were found to have been involved, they would face disciplinary action. On the basis of that we definitely, for all that is normal and reasonable, did not need any reiteration of that condemnation anywhere in this country. [Laughter.]

The ANC-led government has achieved great strides in the protection of workers in this country, including the most vulnerable farmworkers and domestic workers. Sectoral determinations in these sectors have extended protection for workers. A 58% compliance level was achieved with regards to sectoral determinations for both domestic workers and farmworkers. There has been improved compliance with regard to labour legislation and sectoral determinations, which proves that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

One of the major highlights is the enthusiasm with which employers have received the domestic workers project. Owing to the high demand for the programme, there has been oversubscription in terms of both the learnership and skills programmes.

Let me pause a bit and go back to some of the things our Minister referred to while he was here. I will add a little bit too. Last week on Tuesday - if I am mistaken my chairpersons, Comrade Themba and Comrade Ntwanambi will let me know - as a member of the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs, I attended a meeting at which the Department of Labour came to brief us on their strategic plan. In the proceedings they started out by giving us their findings in assessing the achievements scored and challenges encountered in the outgoing financial year and what they intended doing in terms of the challenges in the incoming financial year.

Now in one very brilliant paragraph they said to us that nationally their department had 29 Setas. Am I right, chairpersons? That’s correct. [Laughter.] When they were evaluated - no, don’t shake your head, listen first - they found that 26 of them performed above 55%.

That to me and to my colleagues over there was appreciable because we are doing something to see to it that everything we put in place benefits our people. This means that the employees in that department got the skills that are needed. They got an understanding of the issues involved in the workplace. That to us is an achievement and it needs to be commended.

They went further to say that three Setas were found to have performed below 50% but above 45%, and therefore they had to reconstitute them. I was impressed. They didn’t say that they had to eliminate or abolish them. No, they said they had to reconstitute them, because they have a function to perform, which is meant to close a gap in the legacy of apartheid we inherited in this country in 1994.

Now if we do not understand the need for the Setas, then we are likely to find ourselves indirectly calling for a reintroduction or the bringing back of all those things we had experienced before 1994 through the back door, and the ANC cannot accept that.

Coming to farmers, now some of them do comply, as the note indicates, but there are those who do not. It is unfortunate but I will have to speak in specific terms. I come from Limpopo, the most rural of all the provinces. We definitely have farmers there who are not only not complying, but who are also resisting.

The ANC functions and acts like an elephant. My grandmother used to say that if you happened to do something to an elephant and you escaped its wrath, you mustn’t think that everything was finished. The very moment that that elephant gets your scent, the battle begins. [Laughter.] I am saying the ANC is like an elephant in the sense that it depends on educating people. [Interjections.]

I don’t know about the IFP; I’m not talking about it now. I don’t know. [Laughter.] You see, comrades, there will be a time when those who do not want to comply will find very little room, if any, in which to manoeuvre. [Interjections.]

An HON MEMBER: Is she complaining?

Mr J M SIBIYA: I don’t know. What it means now is that we have to regear ourselves - all of us - and begin to see the situation in this country completely differently from what it used to be before 1994, so that whatever we do adds to the effort of making things better. But one thing is sure: there is no way of going back. No ways. We can’t go back! No ways. We will move, and we will drag along those who refuse to move. If they happen to get scratched, we have enough bandages, we have enough injections, we have enough of everything to treat them, but we will move. [Laughter.]

Farmers who have embraced labour legislation and are improving working conditions for farmworkers should be commended for their efforts, while noncomplying farmers must know that the world is changing fast and that trying to live in a cocoon will not shield them from transformation.

What is happening in this country is part and parcel of a world process. Comrade Chairman, give me more time. [Laughter.] This world process hinges on the laws of history. There is no way in which you can reverse the will of history. No way. Either you go along with it, or you stand in its way and it will knock you down. The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Mr Sibiya, your time has expired, unfortunately. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] [Applause.]

Mr J M SIBIYA: In conclusion, the ANC supports the Vote and invites all in this House to “ondersteun” [support] it. Thank you. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF LABOUR: Thank you very much, hon members, I have enjoyed myself in this debate and never mind those who sometimes get lost in the translation. Let me start first by thanking the officials of the department who are present in the House. Sometimes they get very angry with me because I move at a speed of 200km an hour.

So I cannot tolerate any official who moves at a speed of 30km an hour, but they make me so happy and they tolerate me with my speed. I move very fast, and sometimes in the process I knock down those who stand in my way. So I want to thank them for tolerating me.

One thing that I want to say hon members, because I don’t have much time, is to remind the hon member Terblanche that the right to strike is enshrined in the Constitution, Chapter 2. Are you clear about it, Ma’am? Secondly, one of the things that I should say is that the masses of this country are not fools and they are not at all stupid.

One of the questions that they could, for instance, ask you is: Have you ever worked in a factory? The only thing that you probably know is the university and other privileges that you enjoyed during the past. So you must remember, hon members, that the masses of this country know what is wrong and what is right.

Dishing out commands does not work and it has no place in the labour market. You cannot stand up and command people; there is no way that you can do that. This Minister will certainly not do that. However, as colleagues have indicated here, we will condemn violence no matter who commits that violence.

I want to say in this House, I said it yesterday in the National Assembly, that I want to thank the workers who are members of the police, because many people forget that the police are also workers. There are two police unions, they are the South African Police Union, Sapu, and the Police and Prisons Civil Rights Union or Popcru.

Police personnel are workers and that is why I am saying - and I will repeat it again - it is very dangerous for any worker to begin to attack another worker. Therefore the members who are on strike must stop spitting on the police, shouting at them, taunting them, because it is a very dangerous thing to do. We must not allow our country to slide into chaos and anarchy. The ANC is not an anarchist organisation and no anarchist belongs in this organisation. Secondly, I am grateful to the hon Gamede for most of the things we have addressed. I was not exactly sure what the hon Terblanche was asking in her questions. Maybe she should give me her speech so that I can read it and then respond accordingly.

I have never asked for a speech from the DA; it is the first time that I ask for a speech from the DA, so she should feel very honoured that I have asked for a copy of the speech - an old man like myself. I like what Ma Mchunu was saying that we must all remember that we are products of labour. I suddenly remembered that I am a product of labour.

Intomb’ yasemaBheleni eseyatshona. Ngo-1979. Ndiyayijabulela loo nto, Mam’ uMchunu. Ndibulela kakhulu. [My mother was a daughter of the amaBhele clan and passed away in 1979. I am very glad that hon Mchunu raised that. Thank you very much.]

I seriously want to thank all the hon members, but there is just one more thing that I want to say in relation to the labour market: There are apprentices. It seems that there is confusion, I do not know where this confusion comes from.

What the Minister asked was: Why do we have fewer apprentices? It is important that we remember that we have to make sure that employers employ these apprentices. That is why we are currently in discussions with the Minister of Finance. It may well be that in the process we have given incentives, tax incentives and others, to those who receive learners.

All of them are running for learnerships and learners. We need therefore to have incentives also for apprentices, so that we encourage employers to receive those apprentices, because they are covered by law. In fact, subitem 4(3) in the Skills Development Act, Act No 97 of 1998, section 37(2), has a number of provisions that also include the section that I mentioned. “The Minister must by notice in the Government Gazette abolish the training board before 31 March 2000. If a Seta is established, that Seta has jurisdiction …” But point 5 provides …

… subject to item 4(b), sections 13 to 29, 30 and 32 of the Manpower Training Act, remain in force as if that Act has not been repealed, until a day determined by the Minister by notice in the Government Gazette.

The reason why we did that is because that is the Act that addressed the matter of apprentices, so we have not repealed the Act. I do not understand what the difficulties are in relation to this matter. I want to thank the hon member who raised this matter so that I can remind people that according to our law, we still have apprentices in the country.

When we talk about sourcing or getting skills from overseas, sir, we do not mean skills that are available in the country. We are talking about skills that are not available in the country. As the Minister said before me, one of the difficulties and the challenges now … we hear everybody talking about scarce skills and a shortage of skills. Then you ask them to which skills are they referring?

Some of the CVs that I have seen that were submitted do not necessarily address the problem. They come from people who are looking for jobs. They is usually people who have retired some time ago, and are just looking for a way in, whereas we are talking about scarce skills; so all of us need to put on our thinking caps and identify the scarce skills, because merely shouting about the shortage of skills is not going to help.

The professors who came here and were invited by the Minister of Finance, posed a question that all of us probably need to answer. Let me pose it to you. The majority of the unemployed people are people who have no education.

Secondly, in the same group of people, who are unemployed, there are many matriculants or school leavers. So when you say the reason why people are unemployed is because people have no skills, what skills are needed by a person who cannot read and write except adult basic education and training. You have to make sure that that person can read and write.

One of the things that we want from these hon members is what the Cubans did. When we visited Cuba – Cuba, I am repeating it because I see you are shaking your heads – we saw that Cuba is the only country in the world that succeeded as far as illiteracy is concerned. Do you know what they did? They told us it did not need money, but commitment: if all South Africans who have been through the education system can just get a pen, a pencil and paper and each one of us decides that we are going to baby-sit someone until they can read and write.

You have the money you are all earning here; you can afford a piece of paper and a pen. We should all go to a rural area of this country and close this Parliament. All of us should go for a week or for a month deep into the rural areas and teach our people to read and write. For that you do not need millions and billions of rands. That is what Fidel Castro said to us, and I believed him. But, are we committed to do that? That is the question that all of us need to answer: Is that our commitment, to take our people along with us.

Lastly, let me say, we must always remember that there will always be disagreement as far as the labour market is concerned. The disagreements are because these are ideological questions.

The ANC needs a prosperous, equitable, stable, democratic, nonsexist, and nonracial society. That is our basic principle in the ANC. All the things that we do, including affirmative action and employment equity, are informed by that principle. You can sell anything, but not your principles. If you sell your principles, it is almost as if you are selling your soul.

You can shout at us as much as you want, but we will not deviate from that principle. It includes issues of democracy, including this matter of the labour market. People sometimes talk about labour costs and all sorts of other things, but they will never tell you about the nonlabour cost issues regarding democracy and the stability in this country.

We must thank the workers of this country; with all the problems that we might be having now, the majority of them have made this country stable. We can boastfully say in the near future we want our economy to grow by 6%. Thank you very much, hon members, for supporting this Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Thank you, hon Minister. I want to take this opportunity to thank the hon Minister for leading in and closing the debate, and I believe he had done so for the first time in this debate in this House. We are looking to debating labour issues in the coming years.

The Council adjourned at 17:38. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Council of Provinces

The Chairperson

1. Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bills passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council

 (1)    Bills passed by National Assembly on 18 May 2006 and transmitted
     for concurrence:


    a) Genetically Modified Organisms Amendment Bill [B 34B – 2005]
       (National Assembly – sec 75)


         The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Land and
         Environmental Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.


    b) Foodstuffs, Cosmetics and Disinfectants Amendment Bill [B 35B –
       2005] (National Assembly – sec 76)


         The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Social
         Services of the National Council of Provinces.

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Safety and Security

 a) Strategic Plan of the South African Police Service (SAPS) for 2006
    to 2007 [RP 42-2006].