WEDNESDAY, 24 MAY 2006 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

                                ____

The Council met at 14:06.

House Chairperson Mrs M N Oliphant took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr M A MZIZI: Thank you, Chairperson. I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House, I shall move on behalf of the IFP:

That this House -

(1) expresses its disappointment to learn that a pregnant seventeen- year-old girl who had been stabbed by her boyfriend was released from Mmanapo Hospital even though she was still carrying a dead five- month-old foetus; 2) applauds the action of the local police who insisted that the girl be re-admitted to hospital for further treatment, and congratulates the police who swiftly arrested the girl’s alleged attacker and urges the police to speed up the forensic investigation into the cause of the baby’s death so that a proper and accurate charge can be preferred on the suspect.

So shall I move.

Mnr J W LE ROUX: Agb Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag van die Raad sal voorstel:

Dat die Raad –

  1) kennis neem dat -


    (a)      wetgehoorsame burgers weer eens geskok is oor die
         barbaarse moorde wat daagliks in ons land gepleeg word;


    (b)      hierdie vlakke van geweld net nie langer geduld kan word
         nie;


    (c)      die tyd aangebreek het dat die Regering iets drasties sal
         moet doen om hierdie gewetenlose barbare te stuit; en

(2) ‘n ernstige beroep op president Mbeki en die betrokke Ministers doen om hul plig teenoor die burgers van die land na te kom. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Mr J W LE ROUX: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of this House, I shall move:

That the Council –

  1) notes that -


    (a)      law-abiding citizens are shocked anew by the barbaric
         murders committed daily in our country;


    (b)      these levels of violence cannot be tolerated any longer;


    (c)      the time has come for the government to do something
         drastic to stop these unscrupulous barbarians; and

(2) urgently calls upon President Mbeki and the Ministers concerned to fulfil their duty towards the citizens of the country.]

                         APPROPRIATION BILL


                           (Policy debate)

Debate on Vote No 34: Water Affairs and Forestry

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: They are saying it’s my farewell speech, Chairperson. Chairperson, Premiers present here, hon members, members of the executive council, dignitaries, ladies and gentlemen, it is indeed an honour and my pleasure once again to - maybe for the last time in this capacity - address the National Council of Provinces on what has been keeping our department busy over the last twelve months, if the President does not change his mind on Friday.

Chairperson, let me start by saying that whilst our department is a sector leader in the forestry and water sectors, our achievements in the targets set by government depends on how well we co-ordinate the implementation of our legislation in collaboration with provinces and municipalities, as provided for by the Constitution and the Intergovernmental Relations Framework Act, Act 13 of 2005.

I am happy to say that in addition to progress made in the delivery of water and sanitation we have also made progress in our core function as a sector leader, a regulator and a supporter. In the context of our theme for this year, which is “Water and Forest: For shared growth and economic development”, our department has seriously interrogated its relevance and role in supporting the objective of Asgisa.

We have always emphasised that water is not only life itself, but also central to growth and economic development that our Deputy President is passionately driving. Our department also contributes to this important programme. It may be necessary to remind the members that the delivery of water and sanitation is now the responsibility of municipalities. However, as a leader, our department remains accountable for progress made in this regard.

I am sure you will agree with me when I say the challenge of being accountable for activities that take place in another sphere of government requires not only strong leadership but also effective intergovernmental relations. The Intergovernmental Relations Act therefore becomes critical to our department.

We have successfully spearheaded a number of collaborative initiatives, such as the establishment of provincial water sector forums in all of the provinces. We have functional collaborative structures in all nine provinces, where all water and provincial issues are deliberated. Internally we are also looking at establishing a stronger intergovernmental relations unit that will ensure that collaboration between our department and other partners in the sectors are strengthened. Most provinces have succeeded in developing provincial water sector development plans with our support. These are to be aligned to the provincial growth and development strategies. What we thought was important is that when the province is planning for development, it should include the availability of water in that particular province. If you take, for example, the Northern Cape and the Housing department’s plans to develop houses in that particular province, you will find that a certain type of technology for sanitation may not be appropriate for the Northern Cape given the water situation there. That is why we thought that we needed this central planning.

One of the highlights of our achievements is the water summits held in all nine provinces last year. This culminated in a very successful National Water Summit. I want to take this opportunity to sincerely apologise to the NCOP. I do not know how we missed inviting you to the National Water Summit. I plead guilty.

The primary objective of the summit was to understand the unique challenges facing each province when it comes to water and sanitation delivery. The summits were another mechanism to seek ways of supporting the provinces in their provincial growth and development plans. I can mention that lack of capacity to deliver, operation and maintenance of infrastructure and challenges of meeting our targets came out prominently and consistently in each and every province. It is from these summits that today we can safely say that we fully comprehend the challenges and opportunities facing service delivery in each province and in the country as a whole. We have a national picture of what the problems of water are, but with the specifics of each province.

The outcome of these summits complemented Project Consolidate and the izimbizo that our President, as well as our Deputy President, held throughout the country. We have listened attentively to issues raised by municipalities at the izimbizo, at water summits and as part of Project Consolidate’s initiatives. This has led to the department formulating what we call a water services sector support strategy, which will be launched this year.

There is less than 24 months and 48 months before meeting our water and sanitation targets respectively because as you will remember we have selected 2007 for eliminating bucket system toilets. The year 2010 is our target year for sanitation in general.

Our focus in the last year has been on intensifying our support function to the municipalities. This has led to the department engaging in the following activities: the development of a sector-wide capacity-building strategy, which we plan to launch by August this year; the secondment and deployment of DWAF engineers and technicians to municipalities to provide hands-on support in line with Project Consolidate. If I had the time I was going to demonstrate this. We have monitored the spending within municipalities and observed that some municipalities are underspending because of their technical capacity problem. Some municipalities under Project Consolidate have no engineers and others have no technically skilled people.

We were practical in terms of getting engineers and literally deploying them to those municipalities where the backlog is the highest because we appreciate that we don’t have time, and the deadlines are tight. We deployed 21 engineers to support the process of eradicating the bucket system by 2007. We have 11 engineers and water resource specialists deployed by the Republic of Cuba to Limpopo, North West, Eastern Cape and KwaZulu-Natal provinces respectively. They have given on-the-job training to a 1 000 artisans.

We are exploring options of getting more expertise from Cuba in the areas of hydrological services, engineering and forestry sectors. We are also exploring the option of sending our young learners to Cuba to bring back the technical skills that our country desperately needs. I want to confirm that Cuba has agreed to do this with us.

We have leveraged and mobilised capacity that exists in our boards for the benefit of struggling municipalities. Furthermore, like most government departments, we are interrogating the suitability of our organisational structure in relation to our legislative mandate. It is in this context that we are embarking on a strategy that will lead to stronger and more efficient regional offices, which will be in a better position to take up their leadership role on all water-related matters.

Chairperson, we need to emphasise that more work is needed to accelerate the pace of delivery to meet the targets of the Millennium Development Goals. The delivery of water remains constant at approximately one million people per annum. We are happy to have seen a steady increase in the delivery of sanitation services. A lot is happening in the provinces, which is very exciting in terms of the delivery of the sanitation and provinces need to be commended for this.

As a sector leader we are also guarding jealously against our hard-earned progress being jeopardised. Last year a financial modelling exercise undertaken on behalf of the Department of Provincial and Local Government by DPSA found that the delivery rate in some major municipalities may result in municipalities acquiring infrastructure at such a pace that over the next few years they would increasingly be unable to afford its operations and maintenance costs.

Studies also show that there is a lack of sufficient investment in asset maintenance. In the longer term this will result in negative health impacts and expensive refurbishment projects. We appeal to you to help us as far as this is concerned.

About the following problems that were experienced in Delmas, our department has embarked on a comprehensive drinking water management programme to support municipalities in ensuring that the water that comes out of the tap remains of good quality. As a country we are not prepared to compromise the quality of our drinking water, which is acknowledged internationally.

It is in this context that we are embarking on a strategy that will lead to stronger and more efficient regional offices, which will be in a better position to take up their leadership role in all water related matters.

It is in this context that we have embarked on a robust support and monitoring programme for all municipalities. Municipalities are now submitting monthly drinking water quality reports to our department where it is stored as part of our national data. I am sure people saw in our exhibition that we have a database that captures information which tells you that in the Free State, Welkom, Lejalebutswa, there is a problem with the quality of the water. There is more fluoride in it than is required by our own standards for quality. If, for example, there is supposed to be 20% fluoride in the water that is acceptable, then at Lejalebutswa it is 23%, and then you know that an intervention has to be made because Lejalebutswa is off by 3% in terms of the fluoride that exists in the water.

If you go to the exhibition, the ladies who are operating the computer will show you that. That information is outside. I think this is a very, very big achievement which one is really quite happy about. We have already collected that information for four provinces, but we are expanding this project to the other five provinces as well.

Lastly, the allegations on maggots found in our drinking water were thoroughly investigated by our department and external parties. I wish to say once again, these investigations confirm that our water is safe to drink.

I just want to say this, from a layperson’s point of view, say house number 15, or number 79, reports that there are maggots coming out of the tap. Strangely, the media knows that there will be maggots that will come out of the tap at number 79, which is getting its water from the same source as other houses in that locality. But, none of the other 499 taps have maggots. For me, I still want to understand scientifically how it happens, because the purification system itself could not allow those big maggots to go through. There are filters there and so on. The DA is on our side on this one. [Laughter.] But, I am saying, it is very dangerous for whoever is trying to pull this, it is dangerous, especially for tourism. We are one of the few countries where you could drink water from the tap in any part of this world. In the process of making more water available for basic needs as well as to support the envisaged mining development, we are building a number of dams. The De Hoop Dam is going to be built and the De Berg is in the process of being built and should be completed by next year. We have a programme called Umzimvubu that has been approved in the Eastern Cape. We think that all of the above are going to help to intervene in social and economic development.

We have also ensured that water is used for poverty alleviation and in the Free State there is a project called Matangwane, where there is technology that is used to ensure that people irrigate the crop that they are growing there. And, we are going to contribute R25 million to that project because we believe that it will go a long way in terms of contributing to poverty alleviation.

We also have a responsibility to contribute to Asgisa, and we are contributing to it. We have ensured that we come up with a plan to accelerate the delivery of sanitation in rural areas and we have done that under operation Gijima. Our Deputy President leads this. I am also glad to announce that we are the first country to come up with sanitation week because we wanted to profile sanitation. We launched sanitation week in Tarkastad in the Eastern Cape.

We also have the water allocation reform programme, which is part of the transformation that is happening in the water sector. The national Water Act requires us to ensure that there is equitable distribution of water amongst all users, especially the farmers. This is the programme that is going to help us take excess water, and I am saying excess water, I am not talking about the water that farmers are using for their production.

If they are using what they have optimally, we won’t take anything, but we will take if they have excess. Again, there would be consensus, we won’t just go and grab. We as this government are very responsible. That is why this programme is out for consultation; because we need input from everybody.

Working For Water is a project that really is important for poverty alleviation, but it needs to be transformed and we are trying to look at transforming it in such a way that it will give us more jobs. It has potential and we think that there is something that we can do to make it better and to ensure that it contributes to more jobs.

The charter on forestry is going to be completed by the end of May this year. We are also looking at calling a summit where we will discuss the outcome with the stakeholders, but also report to them.

I have one minute left and it is important that I make my thank you speech. I thank the members of the NCOP for the support, but also especially the chairperson for the exposure to your outreach programmes. I did enjoy all those experiences from you. Thank you very much for the support and the exposure. My gratitude and appreciation to my very, very frustrated director-general, Jabulani Sindane, for his leadership and commitment and to all the officials in the department, for their hard work and dedication. We were becoming one big, very happy, family. [Laughter.] Now, I am going to be their aunt, and not their mother. [Laughter.]

But, I think, most importantly, I want to thank every member of the staff, up to the people who clean our offices. We always forget them. I want to dedicate this speech to those people, those that we always take for granted. The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, as well the entire water and forestry sectors, including municipalities Salga is here Saawu, TCTA, water boards, the Water Research Commission, advisory councils and all the stakeholders and partners, for their co-operation, thank you very much!

Lastly, I just want to close by saying that combating poverty means acting now, not later. My department will not rest until the last person has been served with water and sanitation. [Applause.]

Rev P MOATSHE: Chairperson, hon members, hon Minister, representatives of the department, permanent delegates and MECs present here, I think I must thank the Minister now because, probably, at the end of my speech I might be told that my time has expired. [Laughter.]

We really enjoyed working with the Minister. Some of us know the Minister from 1994, when she was a backbencher. The good side of it is that status never changed her. She remained grounded, working with the people on the ground and was quite accessible. We want to express our gratitude and appreciation for having had this privilege of working with you. At the same time, we wish you a very good and prosperous time in your new field.

When the ANC took power in 1994, it inherited an economy shaped by colonial dispossession and apartheid, which resulted in enormous inequalities and increasingly devastating poverty, rising unemployment and unsustainable government debt. Indeed, despite this legacy, the ANC-led government has made great strides and progress in addressing these imbalances of the past.

Great challenges still remain, however. Continued mass poverty and deep inequalities based on class, race and gender are still very much visible in many regions of our country. To address these challenges requires a choice in favour of a broadly accepted developmental approach that will underpin sustainable reform and transformation of the major sectors.

Our choice of approach must involve focused state–led intervention to ensure the integration of the two economies, poverty alleviation, and job creation and, most importantly, sustained economic growth. This means creating the capacity at every level of the state to mobilise and direct social, economic and political resources to where they are needed most. This budget before this House tries to address exactly that, so that the lives of South Africans will be transformed and change for the better, through reversal of this devastating legacy of our past.

But, government alone cannot resolve these challenges. Rather, they require that we unite South Africans in a people’s contract to create work, fight poverty and supply clean drinking water even to the most marginalised people pushed to the periphery of our country. With specific attention to the government’s plan of action as stated in the state of the nation address, the department is assisting with the improvement of access to basic water supply as well as sanitation services, so that we are able to meet government’s targets.

The main challenges in implementation include funding capacity to implement sustainable management by water services authorities. The direct responsibility for infrastructure and the daily operation has moved from the national department to water services authorities at local government level. Funds will in future come from the municipal infrastructure grant, the local government equitable share and the capacity-building grants.

According to the department’s strategic plan and its estimated national expenditure, the free basic water supply programme is well established and coverage is progressively improving. The key focus now is to extend this to free basic sanitation. However, linked to the rolling out of free basic water supply is the aspect mentioned earlier, that is ensuring appropriate infrastructure support. In order to supply free basic water to those who qualify, we need properly installed and serviced water meters in all settlements across our country.

The Departments of Water Affairs and Forestry, Provincial and Local Government, Public Works and local government structures remain busy, strategising how to ensure that such systems are installed, implemented and properly maintained. This means that there must be interdepartmental deliberation aimed at strengthening service delivery. We cannot underestimate the importance of clean running water in the lives of our people.

How do we meet the international water-sharing agreements to protect the scarce water resources in our country? Water is of critical importance, in particular fresh water, for all aspects regarding sustainable development, including poverty and hunger eradication, reduction of water-related disasters, health, agriculture and rural development, hydropower, food security, gender equality, as well as the achievement of environmental sustainability and protection.

We are committed to achieving the internationally agreed goals on integrated water resources management, access to safe drinking water and basic sanitation, agreed upon in Agenda 21, the UN Millennium Declaration and the Johannesburg Plan of Implementation. We reiterate the continued and urgent need to achieve these goals and keep track of progress towards their implementation, including the goal to reduce by half, by year 2015, the proportion of people unable to reach or afford safe drinking water.

We are committed to the decisions adopted by the 13th session of the United Nations Commission on Sustainable Development in April 2005 concerning policy options and practical measures to expedite implementation of strategies to deal with water, sanitation and human settlements. We note with interest the importance of enhancing the sustainability of ecosystems. We acknowledge the implementation and importance of rainwater management and the development of hydropower projects.

We must recognise the importance of domestic and international policies that foster and assist capacity building and co-operation at all levels to mitigate water-related disasters, including strategies that focus on prevention, preparedness, risk assessment, community awareness, resilience and response. We recognise the important role that parliamentarians and local authorities are playing in various countries to increase sustainable access to water and sanitation services as well as to support integrated water resources management. Efficient collaboration with and between these sectors is a key factor to meeting our water-related changes and goals.

However, we have dams throughout this country and we must try to be careful because sanitation pollutes them. I once invited the Minister to come to my constituency at the Hartebeespoortdam and she was informed that the Jukskei River, from Alexandra and the suburbs around it, is flowing into the Hartebeespoortdam. As a result of that the Hartebeespoortdam is highly polluted. Its water is used for multiple purposes – for drinking, irrigation, etc.

My constituency and I are still waiting for a response from the side of the department. What is going to be done in as far as trying to curb the consistent flowing of the Jukskei River into the dam, because it is polluted with sanitation water? Therefore, for those dams that are not yet polluted, it is also important that we see to it that we don’t allow any pollution or whatsoever, because we are starting to get limitations in as far as clean drinking water is concerned. Therefore, we should remain vigilant at all times so that we safeguard the clean drinking water for the people of South Africa.

Let me thank the members of the committee that I chair for their hard work and vigilance in doing their oversight work.

Lastly, let me thank the Minister and the department. We urge even the new Minister who will be coming in to work together with us in a co-operative manner so that we can really fulfil the provisions stated in the Freedom Charter and do as much as we can to deliver to the people out there who are looking up to us. Their hopes and wishes are with this Parliament. We want to thank everybody and the provinces …

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Lungu elihloniphekile, isikhathi sakho sesiphelile. [Hon member, your time has expired.]

Rev P MOATSHE: We do support this Budget Vote, even if we believe it could be tripled so that we can speed up …

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Hon member, your time has expired.

Rev P MOATSHE: Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Ms B N DLULANE: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, ladies and gentlemen …

Siyambulela umaMtolo ngokusizalela umaRhadebe. MaRhadebe, siwubonile umzila wakho. Sithi uze wenze njalo nakule uyinikiweyo indima. Ubuququzela kuwo onke amaphondo wade wafikelela nakula ndawo ndithunyelwe kuyo. Usanda kuya kutsho phaya eMzimvubu emaBhaceni kuloSogoni. Ufikile naphaya e-O R Tambo, siyakubulela ngaloo nto. Inga ungenza njalo, uphinde phaya emaBhaceni,- kuthiwa kukho izimbiwa phaya, kwaye kusithiwa phaya e-Mount Ayliff kukho amalahle. Sikuthembile, ukuba uza kufika uyenze loo nto. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[We are grateful to maMtolo for giving birth to maRhadebe. MaRhadebe, we have seen your strides. We say: Do the same with the other responsibilities given to you. You visited all the provinces and ended up in my constituency. You recently went to Mzimvubu, Bhacaland, and the home of Sogoni. You also reached O R Tambo, and we are grateful. I wish you could do the same and revisit Bhacaland as it has been reported that some mining resources have been found there. In Mount Ayliff, it is said that there is coal. I trust that you are going to visit these places.]

Let me start again. I was still talking to my outgoing Minister in this Ministry, not outgoing in Parliament. Throughout its years of existence, the ANC has fought for the voice of the people to prevail. It has fought for the principle that the people shall govern. Today we also have the opportunity to give meaning to this principle. We have the opportunity to put the people at the centre of development, not only as beneficiaries, but also as drivers of transformation. Water, sanitation and hygiene are vital components of sustainable development and the alleviation of poverty.

Water as a resource is the backbone to economic development and is, thereby, critical to the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa. Water provides the platform without which services cannot be delivered in a sustainable manner.

Our government has been confronted with a situation in which not only has the majority of South Africa’s people been excluded from the land, but they have been denied direct access to water and sanitation for productive use of this benefit.

Our President, in his state of the nation address, indicated that we needed to eradicate the bucket system between 2006 and 2007, and that all households should have clean water by 2010. It is very important that this is achieved, because over one million children die every year from waterborne diseases.

We have achieved a great deal already in the area of water and sanitation but much more needs to be done. In the feedback we got from the programme we have undertaken as the NCOP of Taking Parliament to the People, some people mentioned that they had to travel long distances to get water. Beye kukha emithonjeni. Azikabikho ke neempompo. [They fetch water from the spring. Water on tap is not yet accessible and there is …]

… loss of lives resulting from waterborne diseases and cholera in places like KwaZulu-Natal, but as we have just said …

Sele siwathathile amanyathelo … [… steps have been taken …]

… to address those problems which we heard about from those different visits of the NCOP when Taking Parliament to the People.

To respond to some of these challenges, hon Minister Sonjica mentioned in her speech that there is a need to ensure optimal use of water resources and to achieve the alignment of existing and future regional infrastructure, while, and at the same time, ensuring equitable access to water services between developed and undeveloped areas.

Her department has necessitated that the budget for water resource management be increased from R1,6 billion in 2005-06 to R2,2 billion in 2006-07. According to the hon Minister, this allocation is expected to increase from R2,4 billion in 2007-08 to R2,96 billion in 2008-09. Minister, we are thinking that your vision will be fulfilled by another energetic Minister who is going to take over. Surely, the department will be taking up this budget with the incoming Minister?

We have just been talking about this role that was given to municipalities. If municipalities, together with ourselves as the national government … singayeka ukucingela ukuba kukho ooNdimkhulu … [… could stop thinking about the big guns …]

… we can improve this problem of capacity. We have been saying that there is no capacity in local government, but you’ve just said that they have tried their level best. So, I’m hoping that with this budget, we will see that we are assisting them to build capacity. Your department must transfer their skills back to this local government, which is an arm of government.

Building on the principles of the Freedom Charter and building on our achievements based on these principles and drawing on the lessons derived from our collective experience, we can move even faster to realise the goals of a better life for all. Minister Sonjica, you were also pleased to announce to us that your department has taken over rehabilitation work at Shiloh Irrigation Scheme where they spent R13,2 million during 2005-06 to provide a reliable water supply to the resource-poor farmers in the scheme. We want to commend the Minister for her work.

At the Stellenbosch ANC national conference, it was noted that South Africa was far in advance of the target on water and sanitation adopted by the World Summit on Sustainable Development. But surely today we can reflect on your contribution as to whether we are still far in advance. I hope we’ll do that review.

The conference resolved to call on the government to continue the good work it has done and to keep on removing all the obstacles to the delivery of basic services, such as water and sanitation, in the shortest possible time, particularly by the municipalities that are servicing the rural poor. The challenge then is that some of these municipalities do not have the capacity, as we have just said, to lead economic development, but we have just heard from you that they are doing their best.

To build on this progress made, the ANC has improved interaction with communities to ensure better communication with government. In our 2006 ANC local government election manifesto, we pledged ourselves to the vision of 2014, of building a better South Africa during the second decade of freedom. We understand that water, sanitation and hygiene are vital components of sustainable development and the alleviation of poverty.

Siyaluxhasa ke olu Hlahlo-lwabiwo-mali lwakho singuKhongolozi. [Kuyaqhwatywa.] [The ANC supports this budget. [Applause.]]

Mr G R KRUMBOCK: Chairperson, I am delivering this speech on behalf of the hon Watson, who you know is indisposed. The DA is supporting the Water Affairs and Forestry Budget Vote. There are, however, three concerns that we would like to raise which impact upon the performance of the department and its ability to meet its stated goals.

Firstly, it is worrying that a culture of equality and transparency does not yet appear to have been firmly established in the department. Recently, a departmental official was on record for singling out a particular race group for their supposed wastage of water. The absurdity of such a statement deserves the same kind of ridicule as some of the utterances that characterised debates in these Chambers before 1994 – not thereafter – and does the sincere efforts of the department in other respects immeasurable damage.

There is also the unfortunate case of Komatiland in Mpumalanga, and Limpopo, where allegations of the lack of transparency in the tender procedures for timber continues unabated. Unfortunately, this area is no stranger to controversy, previously having 2 500 jobs threatened due to interruptions in the supply of timber because of the flawed transfer of state-owned forest land to BEE interests.

The second concern entails the attainment of the service delivery goals that the department has set for itself vis-à-vis the devolution of service delivery responsibilities to the local government sphere. These delivery goals include the supply of clean water to all by 2008, basic sanitation for all by 2010, and the eradication of the bucket system by 2010 as well.

These issues are of immense importance given their continued prominence during the debates waged at the regular izimbizo held in the poorest parts of our country throughout the year. The importance of access to clean water is undisputed, while access to proper basic sanitation makes a life- changing difference to the most marginalised of our people.

Sadly, the eradication of the bucket system, which is a relatively easy target to attain, seems to be beyond the capacity of many of our local municipalities. Shortly before the elections, it was reported that 203 of our 284 municipalities could still not provide sanitation for 60% of their residents, an indication of just how far the reality is from the goal.

Problems identified by the DA in this regard relate to the following: the prioritisation and management of municipal budgets, the correct application of conditional and municipal infrastructure grants, successful project management, the maintenance of existing infrastructure, and the non-payment of services.

The implications of these problems do not only affect the rural poor, but all South Africans. Does it really have to take an outside organisation such as the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development to have to sound the warning bells with regard to the consequences of our crumbling rural infrastructure for economic growth?

This brings us to the final issue regarding the activities of local government, that is, the pursuit of political and economic self-interest at the expense of the South African citizen.

The 284 municipalities and 15 water boards all play a critical role in the roll-out of services and the maintenance of service infrastructure. Yet, South Africans have to be subjected to countless stories of the devastating effects of politicking by local government politicians from the ruling party, and the politics of patronage.

With regard to the former, what has been done to prevent the reoccurrence of a situation such as in Mopani, Limpopo, where the implementation of improved credit control measures were delayed because it did not auger well for the ruling party’s chances in the local government elections?

With regard to the latter, what has the department done to prevent the continual wastage of resources by the inept officials at the helm of the Bushbuckridge water board? Inept by their own admission, as it was nobody less than the chairperson of the Bushbuckridge water board that acknowledged the incompetence of the CEO, and the complete dysfunctional state in which its board of directors found itself when questioned by an ANC MP at the same Scopa hearing at which DWAF was interrogated last year.

The DA wishes the Minister well in her endeavours in her new department, but hopes that the changing of the guard at Water Affairs and Forestry will see the concerns being mentioned here today being dealt with swiftly and judiciously. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr J J DOWRY (Western Cape): Hon Chair, hon Minister and members of this Council, let me, at the outset, congratulate the hon Minister on her new appointment in Cabinet. We know that Water Affairs and Forestry has made huge strides under her leadership and we know that she will also do the same kind of job in the new portfolio. However, from an agricultural point of view we will miss her in this portfolio, but we also know that her successor will be a very good Minister.

In his state of the nation address at the beginning of the year, President Thabo Mbeki placed the emphasis on the season of hope that is beckoning all South Africans in the second decade of our democracy. The Freedom Charter spells out explicitly that the land belongs to the people and this means that we shall be entitled to possessing the land and the benefits that accompany that equality. Ownership also means responsibility and, with regard to land, responsibility means that we are obligated to take care of the land and our natural resources. Out of our natural resources flows many streams and when they are eventually put together, it should become a river of hope that will flow forever.

Daar gaan egter van ons almal, wat op die een of ander wyse gebruik maak van ons natuurlike hulpbronne, vereis word om opnuut te kyk na metodes om dié hulpbronne te spaar en te bewaar. Ontledings het aangetoon dat die waterverbruik van die Kaapse metropool binnekort die voorsiening vanuit die beskikbare waterbronne gaan oortref. Die kompetisie tussen die verskillende verbruikersektore om die beskikbare water gaan dus toeneem. Die besproeiingsektor is verantwoordelik vir ongeveer 50% van die totale huidige verbruik en moet dus betrokke raak by die vind van gebalanseerde oplossings.

In die lig van bogenoemde faktore het die Departement van Landbou hier in die Wes-Kaap proaktief opgetree en ‘n program geloods om die werklike waterverbruik deur besproeiing in die belangrikste sektore in die Wes-Kaap te bepaal en vas te stel hoe die waterverbruiksdoeltreffendheid, dit wil sê ‘n kilogram vrugte geproduseer per kubieke meter water, verbeter kan word. Die program is tans in ses gebiede aan die gang, naamlik De Doorns met tafeldruiwe, Worcester met wyndruiwe, Ceres met pere, Stellenbosch met pruime, in die Sandveld met aartappels, en in Vredendal ook met wyndruiwe.

Die optimale waterbehoefte word in die program vir die verskillende gebiede bepaal en produsente word bygestaan om hul waterverbruik te optimiseer, en foute in hul besproeiingstelsels en skedulering uit te skakel. Die bevindings gaan saamgevat word om aan produsente oor die hele provinsie dieselfde ondersteuning te gee. Die resultate van die projek tot dusver dui daarop dat water in die algemeen redelik effektief benut word, maar dat daar wel geleentheid vir verbetering by sekere produsente is. Die gemiddelde verbetering in die waterverbruiksdoeltreffendheid het met tussen 12% en 15% gestyg waar die program geïmplementeer is. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[However, all of us who make use of our natural resources in some or other way will be required to continue looking for new methods to save and conserve these natural resources. Analyses have indicated that the water consumption of the Cape Metropole will soon exceed the supply from the available water sources. The competition between the various consumer sectors for the available water will therefore increase. The irrigation sector is responsible for approximately 50% of the total present consumption and should therefore become involved in finding balanced solutions.

In view of the above-mentioned factors the department of agriculture here in the Western Cape has taken proactive steps and launched a programme to determine the actual water consumption by irrigation in the most important sectors in the Western Cape and to ascertain how the water consumption efficiency, that is a kilogram of fruit produced per cubic meter of water, can be improved. The programme is at present being implemented in six areas, namely De Doorns with table grapes, Worcester with wine-grapes, Ceres with pears, Stellenbosch with plums, the Sandveld with potatoes, and Vredendal also with wine-grapes.

The optimal water requirement is determined in the programme for the different areas and producers are being assisted with optimising their water consumption and eliminating mistakes in their irrigation systems and scheduling. The findings will be summarised to give producers across the entire province the same support. The results of the project to date indicate that water is generally utilised effectively, but that there is in fact an opportunity for improvement in the case of certain producers. The average improvement has risen by between 12% and 15% where the programme has been implemented.]

As indicated, the Western Cape department of agriculture investigated the dynamics of an increased long-term water scarcity situation in the Berg water management area. Associated with this research, a public survey by which 7 000 questionnaires were sent to water users in the Berg water management area, including the Cape Metropole, was also conducted. The results indicated a public willingness to pay for environmentally friendlier, but more expensive, water.

The outcome motivates serious consideration of bulk-supply options such as desalination of seawater and the recycling to potable standard despite a higher direct cost and potentially increased water tariffs. To this end, the Western Cape department supports the development of pilot desalination projects by working together with service providers, consultants, as well as the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, and also district and local municipalities to engage in discussions on co-financing a pilot desalination project.

The Western Cape is currently busy with further research to qualify the impact of increased water tariffs on the Western Cape economy. Preliminary results are expected towards the end of the current financial year, and we trust that we can come knocking on your door for assistance for such a project.

Die oorhoofse doel ook van die studie wat tans onderneem word by die Oudtshoorn Landbou-waterondersoek is om te bepaal hoe die beskikbare waterbronne in die Oudtshoorn-gebied beter benut kan word tot voordeel van die gemeenskap en wel op so ‘n manier dat die houvas van armoede op voorheen benadeelde mense spesifiek aangepak en verlig word. Die hoofaspekte wat ondersoek word, is die volgende: Hoeveel water kan moontlik bespaar word? Waar, in die bestaande stelsel, kan dié besparing gemaak word? En, wat gaan dit kos om die besparing te realiseer?

Wat die Olifants-Doringrivierstudie betref, is die eerste fase van dié studie verlede jaar afgehandel teen ‘n koste van R6 miljoen, en ‘n verdere R1,5 miljoen word vanjaar geraam om die beskikbaarheid van grondwater in die gebied vas te stel, en is primêr daarop ingestel om water aan klein, opkomende boere te lewer.

Groot kompetisie vir die beperkte waterbronne in die George-gebied heers tussen die stedelike, landbou- en ontspanningsektore. Die gebied is baie gewild en talle gholflandgoedere is reeds ontwikkel, en die belangstelling het nog nie eens daar afgeneem nie. ‘n Ondersoek ten bedrae van R2,5 miljoen om die omvang van die beskikbare water in daardie gedeelte te bepaal en ‘n proaktiewe verdeling tussen die sektore voor te stel, word in samewerking met Waterwese gedoen.

‘n Studie om die beskikbare waterbronne en ontwikkelinsopsies vir die gemeenskap van Zoar te bepaal, is tans ook aan die gang. Die gemeenskap het geen opgaardamme vir besproeiingswater wat in die somer tydens donderstorms voorkom nie, en kan nie volhoubaar boer sonder besproeiingswater nie. As regering is dit ons plig om te sorg dat ons mense wat voorheen nie gelyke geleenthede gehad het nie, nou daardie geleenthede kry.

Op die Koebeeberg naby Vanrhynsdorp is daar agt plase wat geen drinkwater het nie, en water moet oor lang afstande vir hulle aangery word. Hulle het self oor die afgelope aantal jare ongeveer 60 droë boorgate geboor. ‘n Ondersoek is deur die program by ons gedoen en ‘n waterbron aan die voet van die berg is geïdentifiseer. ‘n Pypleiding gaan opgerig word en die koste van daardie projek beloop reeds so R900 000. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[The overall purpose of the study at present being undertaken by the Oudtshoorn agricultural water investigation is aimed at determining how the available water sources in the Oudtshoorn area can be better utilised to the advantage of the community and in such a way that the grip of poverty on formerly disadvantaged people is specifically addressed and relieved. The main aspects that are being investigated are the following: How much water can possibly be saved? Where, in the existing system, can this saving be made? And, what is it going to cost to realise the saving?

As far as the Olifants/Doring River study is concerned, the first phase of this study was completed last year at a cost of R6 million and a further R1,5 million is being estimated this year to determine the availability of underground water in the area, and is primarily aimed at providing water to small, emerging farmers.

There is great competition for the limited water resources in the George area between the urban, agricultural and recreational sectors. The area is very popular and numerous golf estates have already been developed, and the interest there has not even begun to dwindle. An investigation amounting to R2,5 million to determine the scope of the available water in that area and to represent a proactive division between the sectors is being done in collaboration with Water Affairs.

A study to determine the available water sources and developmental options for the community of Zoar is also being done at present. The community has no reservoirs for irrigation water that occurs in the summer during thunderstorms and cannot farm sustainably without irrigation water. As the government it is our duty to ensure that our people who previously did not have equal opportunities now receive those opportunities.

On the Koebee Mountain near Vanrhynsdorp there are eight farms that do not have any potable water, and water has to be carted to them over long distances. They themselves have dug approximately 60 dry boreholes over the past few years. An investigation was done here by the programme and a water source at the foot of the mountain was identified. A pipeline will be installed and the cost of that project already amounts to approximately R900 000.]

It is important that our youth should be educated to respect and love our environment and natural resources. It is with this in mind that 50 junior LandCare camps will be held in this province during this year, which will accommodate about 4 500 historically disadvantaged students, training them in sustainable resource use, for example, efficient water use, biodiversity education, climate change, as well as social skills.

It is important that we protect our indigenous vegetation. To this end we will be conducting 20 projects during the year to eradicate alien vegetation with the aim of re-establishing indigenous vegetation.

Some of our river systems were destroyed by fire and flooding during the course of last year and have resulted in extensive damage to the river course. In some cases river basin peat that took 10 000 years to form has been eroded to bedrock, destroying the natural wetland and sponge of the system. Three infrastructure projects will be implemented to protect the river course from eroding agricultural land. There we will also spend some money, and this money will be used for labour to erect these structures.

In conclusion, I need to point out that we are embarking on these projects not only to empower our people, to eradicate poverty and to address the injustices of the past, but also to ensure that we provide in the needs from our natural resources in an effort to take them over the threshold of hope into the fullness of the second decade of freedom. Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]

Mnu M A MZIZI: Sihlalo ohloniphekile, Ngqongqoshe, ozakwethu nezivakashi ezikhona lapha, ake ngiqale ngibonge enkosazaneni ebesinayo, umama uSonjica. Uma eseza kweminye iminyango, kuzosithokozisa uma engasebenza ngale ndlela abesebenza ngayo nangapha ngoba akakalahleki emehlweni ethu, uzophinda abe khona. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Mr M A MZIZI: Hon Chairperson, Minister, colleagues and visitors present here, let me start by thanking Mrs Sonjica. As she is going to the other department, we would be grateful if she could carry on in the way she was doing here, because she has not disappeared in our eyes. She will be omnipresent.]

We all know that the aim of the department is to ensure the availability and supply of water at national level. We also note that the department promotes sustainable management of forests. The IFP welcomes the 2006 budget allocation of about R4,4 billion to the department.

Let me dwell a little on water. We are aware that the government is engaged in giving poor households free basic water. The question is: At what speed are we moving to reach all corners of the nine provinces?

It is a known fact that there are about 80 million South Africans who do not have basic sanitation. Do we have any mechanism to close the gap? Can we say that with the current Water Affairs budget the target date of 2010 to provide clean tap water and basic sanitation to all our people will be reached?

It is vital that these basic services reach the rural areas and the areas controlled by traditional leaders. Regarding forestry, what is the government’s contingency plan to make sure that wood commodities are not destroyed wholescale by drought and veld fires? These commodities play a vital role in the daily lives of many rural communities.

We must also ask what role traditional leaders are playing in the black economic empowerment deals that are being made with our forests. Are they being sidelined, or will they also benefit? This is important, as benefits should trickle down to the rural areas.

Kule mizuzwana esele, mangiphindele laphaya enkosazaneni. Uma ngithi sizomkhumbula, ngiyakhumbula ukuthi konke lapho besihlangana khona naye uma sithatha iPhalamende silisa kubantu, ubema ngezwi elilodwa athi akekho umuntu oyovalelwa amanzi, amanzi ayimpilo. Ngakuvuma lokho kodwa-ke mangisho ukuthi kusekhona omasipala abasawavala amanzi uma umuntu engayikhokhelanga imisebenzi umasipala ayiletha kuye. Khona endaweni engihlala kuyo sebebaningi abafikile kimi, ngaze ngaya kumasipala ngiyothi, nazi izincwadi nizibhalile nithi nizovala amanzi, nebala seniwavalile. Ngiyethemaba-ke ukuthi uzakwenu uma efika uyokuphakamela lokho, akunqande.

Siyakwazi ngegalelo lakho, naphambili-ke nkosazana, ushaye zephuke ngoba nalapho phela usaya kwezimbiwayo. Ake sizibone nathi sihlomula thina abampisholo, sizibone nathi singena ezimayini siyohlomula. Igolide leli asingaliboni ngoba limbiwa nje kuphela, kodwa sifuna ukuliphatha nangezandla, into esingazange-ke siyiphathe empilweni yethu. Siyakuthokozela mama. Uma ufika kuleyo ndawo usikhumbule, ungasishiyi ngemuva ufulathele.

Okumhlophe kodwa. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[In these few minutes that are left, let me go back and talk about Mrs Sonjica. When I am saying we will miss her, I remember when we were together, with Taking Parliament to the People. She was always saying one thing: “No one will cut off the water of our people, water is health”. I agreed with her on that, but let me say that there are still municipalities that are cutting off the water if a person doesn’t pay for the services. In the place where I am residing, there are a lot of people who come to me. I went to the municipality to say here are the letters confirming that you are going to cut off the water, and indeed you have cut it off. I hope that our new colleagues will address that and stop it.

We know you in your role; do the same where you are going, as you are going to join Minerals and Energy. We, the poor, also want to benefit and play a role in mining. We don’t want to see gold only when it is dug, we want to touch it with our hands, something that we have never touched in our lives. Remember us, don’t turn your backs on us and leave us behind. All the best. [Applause.]]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): I just hope you are not asking the Minister to give you gold, because that would be dangerous. [Laughter.]

Mr C JOHNSON (Salga): Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Deputy Chairperson in absentia, Minister of Water Affairs and hon members, Salga applauds the Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry, Ms Bulelwa Sonjica, on her budget speech.

Let me also take the opportunity to wish you success in your recent appointment to the Ministry of Minerals and Energy and welcome the hon Minister Lindiwe Hendricks to this sector. Maybe the President has something like the Minister of scarce resource management, in mind.

The legacy you have set is firmly entrenched and we need to build on the past successes in order to address our challenges. That legacy you have left behind is indeed delivering on time, delivering on budget and ensuring satisfied citizens, especially on the delivery on water.

The provincial and national water summits have set an excellent basis to proceed with meeting the presidential targets. Water is indeed an integral part of life both to our citizens and the economy. In managing the increasingly scarce resources, we must take into account the need to address the past imbalances and stimulate the Asgisa programme in a sustainable manner.

As municipalities, we say Asgisa starts here. Masibambane, the theme adopted in your Budget Vote, signals the approach towards managing the utilisation of a complex and scarce resource. Indeed we all need to work together to realise our common goal set by President Mbeki.

The need to strengthen intergovernmental relations to give effect to the Masibambane Programme is critical and we should establish a joint task team to develop and strengthen these intergovernmental relations, especially since water passes across municipal boundaries, river systems and biospheres, which does mean that we have to work together as municipalities.

Every single drop of effort counts in this regard. We have noted the restructuring of the Water Services Transfer Programme. A number of challenges have been identified in the joint meeting of all stakeholders and this includes the transfer of staff and the finance to refurbish and effectively operate and maintain the water schemes.

The financial framework should also include a tariff policy that ensures the long-term sustainability of delivering water in the most effective and efficient manner without eroding the financial viability of municipalities.

A key component of ensuring sustainability is the establishment of the water catchment agencies. This is devolution of powers from national to local and citizen-based agency and the national water resource infrastructure agency.

The role of these institutions become more acute as current, long-term weather forecasts predict increasing drought periods, thus recurring supply and effective demand management is critical, especially in the context of a growing economy and the right to water enshrined in our Constitution. Since we are celebrating the 10 years of our Constitution, we have to assess access to water and access to safe sanitation in this context.

Furthermore, the development of new technology such as desalination should be advanced to ensure the security of the supply of clean, affordable drinking water to rural communities.

The role of local government in ensuring that every household has clean and safe drinking water as well as providing water to agriculture and the industry for economic growth is paramount. Your commitment to support local government in this endeavour is highly appreciated, noting our double- decker bus of the economy - a first and second economy.

The steps taken by your department to support municipalities in this regard is a step in the right direction, as I have said. The joint programme with the Swiss government to build the capacity of municipalities, the Local Government Capacity-building through Knowledge-sharing programme, is valued.

The high levels of skills required to ensure safe drinking water, managing and maintaining the infrastructure to reduce leaks, developing effective demand management systems and maintaining a revenue stream that will finance this requirement, is highly sought- after globally. We therefore need to manage existing skills more effectively and rapidly develop new, skilled people who will staff the 284 municipalities across the urban and rural areas of our country.

Again, the question that is uppermost in Salga’s mind is: How do we address the skills gaps given the current skills pool we have in the country? Secondly, there is the question of how we develop the urgently needed water engineers to sustain and manage our water resources in the next decade. Minister, we appeal that we urgently set aside some time to assess the current skills gaps, and develop a programme to provide these skills in a sustainable manner.

The current level of poor sanitation is unacceptable. In addition, the poor management of sanitation in some areas is contaminating the aquatic system and poses great health risks. We all know that access to sanitation restores human dignity. The President has challenged us to eradicate the bucket system by 2007 but the question that we have is where the buckets are located. If we have to base our data on 2001, this means that we have to make a joint effort around the correct data to ensure that we have enough money and that it is not based on 2001 data.

Co-ordinated national programmes with respect to fiscal capacity support measures to meet the presidential targets are needed. The efforts by your department to find appropriate technology to increase the effectiveness of sanitation management are equally urgent and investigations in this regard are appreciated.

The provision of water and sanitation given the inequalities of the past is a difficult task. The need, as I have said, for joint stakeholders, as indicated by Minister Sonjica in the budget speech to address the current challenges, are in fact quintessential. More importantly, we need to galvanise the will and the determination to make it work throughout the length and breadth of our country and should be embarked upon.

The Minister outlined the national priorities and programmes and my appeal is that we jointly get on with the task ahead without wasting time. We, as the South African local government, support the Budget Vote on Water Affairs and Forestry. I thank you.

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, let me also firstly congratulate the Minister her new appointment and wish her everything of the best. We in the select committee will surely miss her leadership.

As we are going to celebrate the 50th anniversary of the women’s march to the Union Buildings later this year, we should remind ourselves that the purpose of this historical march by these brave women was not only to demonstrate their objection to the carrying of passes, but it was also a fundamental protest to ensure a better life for everybody, which also includes the access to clean water and sanitation. It is important that we remind ourselves of how far we have come since 1994, when a massive backlog existed in the provision of basic services in the country.

Out of a total population of just over 40 million, a total of 15,5 million people lack access to basic water supply and a total of 20,5 million people lack basic sanitation. The situation at the end of the 2004- 05 financial year was reduced to only 3,6 million without access to safe water and approximately 16 million people without access to any hygienic sanitation.

It is clear that the current ANC-led government keeps to its promises of providing a better life for everybody.

Voorsitter, dit is in teenstelling met die DA, wat nie geglo kan word nie. ’n Duidelike bewys hiervoor kan gevind word gedurende die aanloop tot die pas afgelope plaaslike verkiesing, waartydens die DA met groot trompetgeskal bekend gemaak het dat hulle geen munisipale bestuurder of senior personeellid sou afbetaal in die munisipaliteit waaroor hulle beheer sou verkry nie. Wat ons egter nou in Kaapstad en Stellenbosch sien gebeur, is direk in teenstelling met hierdie belofte. Wat het dan nou geword van die beginsel wat deur die DA tydens hul verkiesingsveldtogte verkondig is, naamlik dat alle persone na meriete en nie na politieke affiliasie beoordeel sal word nie? (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Chairperson, this is in contrast to the DA, which cannot be believed. Clear evidence for this could be found during the run-up to the recent local elections, during which the DA, with a big sound of trumpets, made it known that they would not pay off any municipal manager or senior staff member in any municipality of which they might get control. But what we see now in Cape Town and in Stellenbosch is in direct contrast with this promise. What has happened to the principle that the DA pronounced during their election campaigns, namely that all people will be judged on merit and not on political affiliation?]

Chairperson, I therefore submit that they cannot be trusted.

Ms J F TERBLANCHE: On a point of order, Chairperson.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! Order, Mr Van Rooyen. Hon Terblanche?

Ms J F TERBLANCHE: Chairperson, I just want to know whether it is correct to speak out against the judgment made in one of the courts of our country, because this is exactly what Mr van Rooyen has just done.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I didn’t hear the member speaking against the judgment. There was nothing about that or the merits of that. The member is contributing to the debate and nothing is out of order. Continue, hon member.

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: In 2003 the department adopted a new vision for forestry, which brought forestry in alignment with the department’s overall vision of promoting socioeconomic development, social justice and equity through the sustainable use of the country’s forest and water resources. The new vision puts people and their development at the heart of forestry. It is interesting to note that forestry makes a major contribution to South Africa’s economy. The formal commercial forestry sector contributes 2% of annual GDP and accounts for 9% of agriculture output. It also provides 4% of South Africa’s total annual export and contributes R6 billion per annum to the country’s foreign exchange earnings. To illustrate the job creation potential further, the commercial forests industry directly employs about 120 000 people. The conservation and related sector directly employs a further 250 000 people. In addition, an estimated 275 000 are involved in the harvesting, processing and selling of non-timber products.

The trade in medicinal plants has an estimated annual value of R60 million. Forestry also brings other benefits into people’s lives. The commercial forest industry invests over R80 million per year in local roads, schools, health clinics and other community-based initiatives.

During the briefing by the department on its 2006-07 budget it became clear that an element of underbudgeting exists in the allocation through the MIG for the provision of basic water supply and sanitation to local authorities over the MTEF period. The projected shortfall is based on the targets for dealing with the backlogs in the water supply and sanitation, as well as the eradication of the bucket system.

Budget shortfalls were also further highlighted during the NCOP’s recent visit to the Northern Cape, where it was reported that to eradicate approximately 24 000 buckets by 2007, a sum of R187 million will be required. However, the combined MIG and the provincial infrastructure grant for the period 2005-07 only amounts to R137 million, resulting in a shortfall of R50 million. It is therefore clear that the set targets in this case will not be met. This is a matter of planning, which requires urgent attention.

In the Free State, the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry has been able to halve the backlog on basic water supply during the last ten years, from an initial 15% of the population in 1994 down to 8% of the population in 2005.

On the sanitation backlog, the Free State department was able to reduce the backlog by 30% over a period of 10 years. Chairperson, you will agree that this is a remarkable achievement and the department should be congratulated.

Currently the Bloem Water Board is in the process of developing plans for alleviating the water supply problems in the towns of Jagersfontein and Fauresmith in the southern Free State. These towns have experienced water- related problems over the last few years. The project will be in excess of R150 million and will improve the water supply in this poor rural area. What is of concern, however, is the fact that 4 out of 10 current board members of the Bloem Water Board, including the chairperson, do not reside in the area of service. The questions that do arise are: do these nonresident board members know the specific needs of their area effectively to prioritise on their behalf? Do their priorities coincide with those of the inhabitants of the region? Surely this situation cannot be correct and therefore needs to be looked at again.

The Department of Water Affairs and Forestry deserves our gratitude for the way in which they are working towards delivering on their promise of access to clean water and sanitation for everybody. They deserve our support and also our assistance, such as with strategic planning to enable them to obtain their intended targets. We have indeed entered a season of hope and the people can be assured that the ANC will deliver on its promise for a better life for all. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: Chairperson, I just want to make a comment on Mr Krumbock’s speech. It is a recycled product. I heard that same story in the National Assembly. That’s how uncreative the DA is. [Interjections.]

I responded to the issues. It looks as if the hon member did not even listen to or consult with other members from his party. There are many issues that you could raise on water and forestry; you don’t need to recycle what was said in the National Assembly.

On the Komatiland issue that you are raising, we did make available 40 000 logs and we followed the necessary procurement procedures. We were transparent. All of those principles brought about by this government were not known before 1994, and we are very committed to ensuring that we implement our own policy.

With regard to Safcol procurement processes, your queries could be directed to the Department of Public Enterprises. They are the ones who have responsibility over Safcol.

About Bushbuckridge, we are intervening continuously with regard to the water boards and the problems that they are encountering. We have just appointed a new board which is the legal body that would advise the Minister to act in one way or another when there are problems at any water board.

Problems that we need to appreciate are that you may be driving to a point where we disestablish the board. We cannot disestablish in the absence of a service provider that would assist in terms of service delivery in that particular area. So, you have to find a way of ensuring that all the problems encountered by Bushbuckridge are attended to, rather than looking at the quick answer of disestablishing.

So, it is a work in progress. We are on top of the issue. Yes, we agree that there are problems, but they are problems that are being attended to.

In terms of Hartebeest, a task team was established. It includes the Department of Water Affairs, Environmental Affairs, the private sector, Rand Water and the province. The report is available, hon member. We can make it available to you. We apologise. It is difficult to put in everything here.

On the question of skills, we have entered into an agreement with Tswane University of Technology, UCT, the University of the Western Cape, the University of Pretoria and of KwaZulu-Natal. They are going to train our engineers and technicians. That adds on to what I said about Cuba and the offer that we get from them.

On the pollution of dams by sewage, I would rather say it is the pollution of the rivers instead of the pollution of the dams. I am going to recycle as well now. In the National Assembly, members pledged to adopt a river. I adopted the Seekoei, which means therefore that you will be responsible for monitoring that people are not polluting the river. If you need assistance, you come to Water Affairs and we will gladly assist you.

So, that’s one way in which we can also reduce the rate of pollution of our rivers. But, as already said, with regard to the Hartebeest, there is a report available. You would be able to get a copy. Whoever needs a copy can contact my department. We can make it available by tomorrow.

On the question of capacity, there is intervention from the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa that is looking at all the blockages and problems that are not making it easy for municipalities to deliver, and it is under the leadership of the Deputy President. We are looking at capacity and funding, and National Treasury is involved and has committed itself to making funds available when they are needed.

So, again, there is something happening. About the pollution by sewage water, we are working with municipalities. We are also giving them some money to develop their own capacity. The European Union also gave us money. So, we are using that money to make sure that municipalities have capacity to manage these things on their own. Eli xesha liyakhawuleza. [Time is moving fast.]

Regarding the question by hon Goldberg, I think the context is maybe conveniently being ignored, because the context within which the issue was raised was in relation to the legacy of apartheid. I think it is on record and it is our history that clean, potable water was a priority for the white people in this country; that is a fact of life before 1994. It is a fact of life and there is evidence of that.

So, I don’t know why must we cry to such an extent because it is a fact of life. It is there; it is our history. So, this is the reference that is being made. It was making reference to the legacy of apartheid. It is unfortunate that some people are reacting in the manner in which they are reacting.

But I do indeed want us to deracialise the debate of water and unite behind the programme of this government that ensures that all our people get a better life through the delivery of basic services. We owe it to all those people who died for this democratic government. On the question of Lepele, Phalaborwa needs to pass on to them what they collect from water. So, the local municipality owes the water board about R80 million. So, this is the issue and not all of those issues that the hon member raised.

I do want to take this opportunity to thank each and every participant. My papers are all over. It looks like I am leaving other issues unanswered, but because of the time allocations, it is very difficult to respond to everything.

Thank you very much for participating in the debate and for your support, although I don’t know whether the DA said they supported or do not. It would be typical of them if they did not support this debate. They have never been committed to the plight of the poor. It is about politics and getting political mileage, and not sincerely seeing our people getting out of poverty. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Debate concluded. The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I thank you, hon Minister. That concludes the debate on this Vote.

Just before I go on to another Order, on behalf of the Council, Minister, thank you very much for the work you have done in this current portfolio. We wish you all the best in the new portfolio you have been promoted to.

The Council will work together with you, with all the oversight function work that we will be doing, to assist your department to achieve its objectives. So, we wish you the best, and I hope you will support the Council as you used to support when you were the Minister of Water Affairs. We want to thank you very much. [Applause.]

  CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON LABOUR AND PUBLIC
ENTERPRISES - FINAL ACTS OF PLENIPOTENTIARY CONFERENCE IN MARRAKESH,
      MOROCCO IN 2002 OF INTERNATIONAL TELECOMMUNICATIONS UNION

Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson, hon members, the final acts of the Plenipotentiary Conference of Marrakesh are also referred to as the instruments amending the Constitution and Convention of the International Telecommunications Union, as amended by the Plenipotentiary Conference in Kyoto in 1994, and the Plenipotentiary Conference in Minneapolis in 1998.

Noting that the Constitution and Convention of the International Telecommunications Union signed on 22 December 1992 in Geneva has treaty status, we also note the critical importance of the work of the International Telecommunications Union in building and shaping tomorrow’s networks and services; setting standards that facilitate seamless interworking of equipment and system on a global basis; adopting operational procedures for the vast and growing array of wireless services and designing programmes to improve telecommunications and infrastructure in the developing world. The International Telecommunications Union’s work has enabled telecommunications to grow into a one trillion US dollar industry worldwide.

We furthermore note that since 1994 South Africa has participated actively in the work of the International Telecommunications Union when South Africa was elected as a member of the executive council. Since its readmission to the ITU, South Africa hosted the ITU Africa Telecom in 1998 and Africa Telecom 2001 regional conferences, where leading representatives from the ICT sector focused on the communications challenges facing Africa in building the information society.

South Africa also chaired the working group on ITU reform established by the ITU council in line with Resolution 74 of the Minneapolis Plenipotentiary of 1998.

Membership of the International Telecommunications Union is open to governments, which may join the union as member states. In addition, a special category was established for private sector organisations, funding bodies, research and development organisations, international and regional telecommunication organisations, which can join the ITU as sector members.

The following South African state-owned enterprises and private sector organisations are sector members of the International Telecommunications Union. They are: Vodacom, MTN, Orbicom, Sentech, Telkom, Transtel and Cell C. The final acts of Marrakesh contain the articles, declaration and reservations, general rules of conferences, assemblies and meetings of the union, decisions, resolutions and recommendations of the plenipotentiary conference, and the articles of the final acts address the functioning of the union and includes matters such as elections, members of the radio regulation report, the executive council, the radio communication standardisation development sectors, as well as credentials and admission to the plenipotentiary conferences.

Declarations and reservations are made at the end of plenipotentiary conferences and state that plenipotentiaries that sign the final acts confirm that they have taken note of the declarations and reservations made by various countries at the end of the plenipotentiary conferences.

The general provision regarding conferences and assemblies includes issues ranging from invitations to radio communication conferences, time limits and conditions for submission of proposals and reports to conferences to matters relating to relations with the press and the public, franking privileges and procedures for voting. Decisions, resolutions and recommendations of the conference are made at the conferences by member states.

A key part of the plenipotentiary conference is to endorse strategic direction of the three sectors of the ITU through which most of the work of the ITU is undertaken. These sectors are radio communication, ITUR; telecommunications standardisation, ITUT; and telecommunication development, ITUD. Each of the ITU sectors works through conferences and meetings where agreements are negotiated to facilitate the operation of global telecommunication services. Of these, only the decisions of the World Radiocommunication Conference from an international binding agreement would require a separate ratification by Parliament.

The final acts also set the membership fees. Member states account for 66,1% of the overall budget of the sector members. We’re asking the House to ratify this. [Time expired.][Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I shall now put the question in respect of the second Order. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I need to ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all delegation heads present? Yes.

I shall now allow provinces the opportunity to make their declaration in terms of Rule 71, if they so wish. Is there any province wishing to make any declaration of vote? There is obviously none.

We shall now proceed to voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of or against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Mrs A N D QIKANI: Supports.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Free State?

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Supports.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng?

Mr E M SOGONI: Siyaxhasa. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mrs M N OLIPHANT: iKwaZulu-Natal iyaxhasa. [KwaZulu-Natal supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo e ya e thekga. [Limpopo supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?

Ms F NYANDA: Mpumalanga supports.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?

Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Noord-Kaap steun. [Northern Cape supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West supports.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?

Mr N J MACK: Supports.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with of section 65 of the Constitution.

  CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICES -   CONVENTION FOR UNIFICATION OF CERTAIN RULES FOR INTERNATIONAL CARRIAGE BY
                                 AIR

Mr F ADAMS: Hon Chairperson, members, colleagues and comrades, the Carriage by Air Act, Act 17 of 1946, was promulgated to give effect to the Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules Relating to International Carriage by Air, signed at Warsaw on 12 October 1929, also known as the Warsaw Convention. The Warsaw Convention was subsequently amended by the Haiti Protocol of 1955, the Guatemala City Protocol of 1971 and Montreal Protocol 14 of 1975. These international instruments of law are jointly referred to as the Warsaw system.

The high mobility of passengers and the globalisation of the air transport industry have resulted in the high level of complexity and fragmentation of the Warsaw system. The Convention for the Unification of Certain Rules for International Carriage by Air of 1999, aimed at modernising the Warsaw system, was adopted at a diplomatic conference of the International Civil Aviation Organisation in 1999.

The Republic of South Africa is a signatory to the Montreal Convention. The Montreal Convention of 1999, modernised and consolidated, has changed the 70-year-old system of international instruments of private international law into one legal instrument that provides an adequate level.

Chairperson, the Montreal Convention of 1999 provides for better protection to victims of international air accidents as adequate levels of compensation is provided. The Warsaw Convention had set a very low compensation level for victims of air accidents as well as liability for damage, delay or loss of baggage and cargo in accidents. It introduces the concept of unlimited liability in case of death or injury to passengers.

The Montreal Convention introduces a two-year system where the first year includes liability up to 100 000 Special Drawing Rights. Irrespective of a carrier’s fall, the second year is based on the presumption of fault of a carrier and has no limit of liability.

In cases of aircraft accidents, air carriers are called upon to provide advanced payments without delay to assist indebted persons in meeting immediate economic needs. Air carriers must submit proof of insurance, thereby ensuring the availability of financial resources in cases of automatic payments or litigation. Legal action or damage resulting from death or injury of a passenger may be filed at the permanent place of residence of the passenger subject to the conditions. There is facilitation in the recovery of damages without the need for lengthy litigation, and simplification and modernisation of documentation relating to passengers baggage and cargo.

Chairperson, the Select Committee on Public Services having considered the request for approval by Parliament of the convention, recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution approve the said convention. I thank you.

Debate concluded.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: That concludes the debate. I shall now put the question and the question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the constitution, I shall first ascertain whether the delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ vote. Are you all present? Yes. In terms of the Rule 71, I will then allow those provinces that want to make a declaration of vote to do so if they so wish. Is there any province that wishes to do so? None. We shall go to the voting. I shall do so in alphabetical order and the provinces’ heads of delegations will have to indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour, against or abstain. Eastern Cape? Ms B N DLULANE: In favour, Sir.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Free State?

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Supports.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng?

Mr E M SOGONI: Siyayixhasa, Sihlalo. [We support, Chairperson.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF TNE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mrs M N OLIPHANT: KwaZulu-Natal steun. [KwaZulu-Natal supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo?

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Supports.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?

Mr Z C NTULI: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?

Mr M C GOEIEMAN: Kapa bokone e a dumelana. [Northern Cape supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?

Mr Z S KOLWENI: Ke a rona. [We support.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?

Mr N J MACK: Steun. [Supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

The Council adjourned at 15:54. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159 (1) Health Professions Amendment Bill, 2006, submitted by the Minister of Health. Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Health and the Select Committee on Social Services.

(2)     Firearms Control Amendment Bill, 2006, submitted by the
     Minister of Safety and Security. Referred to the Portfolio
     Committee on Safety and Security and the Select Committee on
     Security and Constitutional Affairs.

1. Calling of Joint Sitting

   The Speaker and the Chairperson, on 24 May 2006, called a Joint Sitting of the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces, as follows:

            CALLING OF JOINT SITTING OF PARLIAMENT
   

   The Speaker of the National Assembly, Ms B Mbete, and the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, Mr M J Mahlangu, in terms of Joint Rule 7(2), have called a joint sitting of the Houses of Parliament for Thursday, 25 May 2006, at 11:00 to conduct a debate in recognition of Africa Day.

B MBETE, MP        M J MAHLANGU, MP
SPEAKER OF THE                           CHAIRPERSON OF THE
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY       NATIONAL COUNCIL OF
             PROVINCES”

COMMITTEE REPORTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. Report of the Joint Standing Committee on Defence on Deployment of SANDF to the Union of Comoros, dated 19 May 2006:

   The Joint Standing Committee on Defence, having considered the letter from the President on the deployment of the South African National Defence Force (SANDF) to the Union of Comoros, referred to the Committee, reports that it has concluded its deliberations thereon.