TUESDAY, 6 JUNE 2006 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 10:05.

House Chairperson Mr T S Setona took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                          NOTICE OF MOTION

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council –

(1) notes the City of Cape Town’s looming staff crisis caused by the DA-led forum’s plans to restructure again;

(2) further notes that this action by the city council is leading to uncertainty, low morale of staff members and is resulting in senior and skilled staff resigning;

(3) also notes that the executive mayor, the city manager and his executive director ignored a collective grievance lodged by staff members in this regard; and

(4) therefore calls on the executive mayor of Cape Town to put the interests of the staff of the City of Cape Town, including the residents of Cape of Town, above her narrow party-political interest by resolving this matter urgently.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Is there any objection to the motion? [Interjections.] In the light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a notice of motion.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL


                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 4 - Home Affairs:

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon Minister and Deputy Minister, welcome to this august House. You are welcome to present your budget policy statement. Hon Minister, you can take the floor and open the debate.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Chairperson, hon members, Deputy Minister of the Department of Home Affairs, director-general, senior officials of our department, dear colleagues, once again we appreciate the opportunity to present the synopsis of our budget and plan of action before this House, only a week after it was debated in the National Assembly.

As members are aware, the Department of Home Affairs is one of the few service delivery departments whose competency only rests with the central government, without any devolution to provinces. Unfortunately, this arrangement has had the effect of limiting our interaction with this specific House of Parliament as well as the provincial legislatures, where we can account and brief members on the impact of our work in specific provinces. We believe that the direct input of members of this House and those in various provincial legislatures could be of great benefit to our work.

This past Sunday our country joined the rest of the world in celebrating the International Day of the Child. We all paused to give consideration to the plight of millions of children all over the world, particularly in relation to their protection and ensuring that they grow up in a world devoid of the many social ills of today’s world.

Governments all over the world are expected to be the key facilitators in the creation of these conditions of safety and comfort for children. Accordingly, we shall therefore also use the presentation of our budget today to demonstrate this strong commitment on our part to ensure the protection of our country’s children.

It is important that as we devise programmes and plans of departments, at the back of our minds we should keep thinking about the impact they will have on people’s lives and on improving the lives of the ordinary people for the better, including the poor, the rural masses, women and indeed our children. We are obliged to do this so that when we proclaim that our country is entering an age of hope, that should have meaning for every one of our people. At the end of it all, every South African must be able to realise that, for them or for their communities, today is truly better than yesterday and that that gives real justification to believe tomorrow will be even better.

Our work in the past year was mainly based on the programme outline that we presented to you during our previous Budget Vote. In the main, we have concentrated on building a firm foundation on which to implement our turnaround goals for the Department of Home Affairs. These goals included work in the areas of capacity, both in terms of people and infrastructure development; leadership; activities to counter corruption; and technology.

All these objectives were designed to support our plan for service delivery improvement within the department. We have seriously concerned ourselves with the task of ensuring that we serve our clients and, in so far as the previous year is concerned, we have made great strides in the implementation of our plan.

I shall now briefly report back to you with reference to the plan that we presented last year. Most of the work that we said we should do, the basis on which you supported and passed our budget, has been done. We said we would enhance our capacity for sound leadership in provinces. As I have already indicated, one of the biggest problems facing the structural arrangement of our department is that, as an exclusive national competency, its planning and operation processes are overcentralised and not enough strategic capacity has been created at provincial level and below. This has had the negative impact of endless red tape and makes efficiency difficult to achieve.

We have now appointed senior provincial managers at chief director level to oversee the work of the provinces. We shall proceed to complement these appointments with further capacity, both at management and operational levels. Once this is in place, we shall move to devolve certain functions and powers to the provinces.

We have said we will investigate the extent and prevalence of lack of service provision with regard to our civic service function and to use this data in planning our resource allocation. We have now received the report of a survey we commissioned from the Human Sciences Research Council to determine the extent of problems regarding our provision of services to citizens. One of the key outcomes of this process is that, for the first time, we have reliable data regarding the specific provinces and localities where there is a great need for our services and where the bulk of our activities and resources should be concentrated.

The report has revealed that about 1,5 million South Africans are likely not to have green bar-coded identity documents. The situation is more serious in KwaZulu-Natal, North West and Mpumalanga. It also suggests that the Western Cape has the largest proportion of people who have applied for the green bar-coded IDs and that this was generally the case amongst white South Africans nationally. Statistics for the registration of births and deaths also reflect greater reluctance amongst people in provinces with large rural communities such as KwaZulu-Natal, the Eastern Cape and Mpumalanga.

An implementation plan to implement the recommendations of the report is being devolved and we are making the necessary organisational adjustments to respond adequately to issues raised in the report. The work that we will be doing will include the mobilisation of communities to heighten awareness and, because of this, we shall be asking for active participation by members in their different constituencies. We will also make this report available to members to assist them as they do their work.

We said we would look into the location of our different regional and district offices to ensure increased access by considering distances and population densities in provinces. That’s the third priority we outlined. Again, we had commissioned an investigation of all the facts that need to be taken into consideration with regard to the location and spread of our offices.

From the onset, the report we received lamented the fact that we do not have proper infrastructure in the form of offices all over the country and that the situation has become desperately urgent to address. Once more, it is the most rural provinces that are hard hit. In particular, the vast distances in provinces such as the Northern Cape and Eastern Cape are of major concern. We shall outline in this budget some of the provisions we are making to address this aspect of our work regarding the findings of this report.

The fourth priority is that we said we should fill 898 critical posts to enhance capacity for service delivery throughout our offices. We succeeded in filling the critical posts that we had identified in the previous year to provide much-needed capacity for service delivery improvement, although some of these critical posts were for capacity in different units at head office. You will see the breakdown for the various provinces in the speech that will be provided to you. The budget for the coming financial year makes provision for additional funds to fill more vacancies, and I will deal with these when we outline the provisions of the budget.

The fifth priority was that our campaigns for civic registration would continue to make a difference in people’s lives and contribute a great deal to increasing awareness of the services of the department. Major campaigns such as the Marriage Registration and Status Verification Campaign and the Lokisa Ditokomane Campaign have been of great assistance to ordinary South Africans, who initially could not get assistance with problems they had regarding the correctness of their particulars in the population register.

The following provincial statistics attest to this view in that many of our clients have taken advantage of the opportunities created by the campaigns, particularly as most of these services are being offered free of charge to the public. To date, we have the following statistics since the start of the Marriage Registration and Status Verification Campaign: As at 4 August 2004, more than 387 000 people had come forward to verify their status. Many found the records to be in order. Some claims were investigated and finalised. I will give the vital statistics per province.

In the Eastern Cape, for instance, it was reported that 196 marriages were declared fraudulent and were nullified, while 3 023 customary marriages were registered. In the Free State 138 marriages were reported to be fraudulent and were nullified, while 818 customary marriages were registered. In Gauteng 2 519 fraudulent marriages were nullified, while 145 customary marriages were registered. In KwaZulu-Natal 358 fraudulent marriages were nullified, while 24 451 customary marriages were registered. In Limpopo 120 fraudulent marriages were nullified, and 4 708 customary marriages were registered. In Mpumalanga 159 fraudulent marriages were nullified, while 993 customary marriages were registered. In the North West 102 fraudulent marriages were nullified, while 370 customary marriages were registered. In the Northern Cape 36 fraudulent marriages were nullified, while two customary marriages were registered. In the Western Cape 3 268 fraudulent marriages were nullified, while there were only 13 customary marriages that were registered. The total number of fraudulent marriages that were nullified was 6 896, and the total number of customary marriages registered was 34 523.

Our offices are all operating on flexi hours. Extended office hours in the Department of Home Affairs have made it easier for people to have access to our services, even after they have knocked off from their places of work. As you know, our offices are also open now on Saturdays until 2pm.

We said we would finalise certain aspects in order to provide a stable policy to manage and capacitate immigration services. Following the directive of the President with regard to the above, the Immigration Act was amended in 2004 with the aim of ensuring that it was properly aligned to support national objectives. This includes boosting economic development, meeting foreign policy objectives, attracting scarce skills and ensuring the integrity of our borders.

During the year under review, the amended Act came into effect with the finalisation of the regulations. It has given greater relief and convenience to many foreigners who want to enter into our country as it does away with many provisions that made it more cumbersome to apply for permits. We have also ensured consistency with foreign policy objectives by providing for flexibility to accommodate peoples of the other countries on the continent and in the region.

The budget we are presenting before you aims to further consolidate the gains, and is divided into seven main policy options that formed the basis of our bid to the National Treasury for additional funding above our baseline. The actual budget figures will be given in detail separately to hon members.

As we have already indicated, this year we shall make further funding available to fill an additional 120 senior posts as well as to further consolidate leadership capacity in provinces. Of these posts, 993 will be in the provinces. Some of these posts will be used to create additional capacity within our new civic services establishment to enhance our capacity to serve the citizens better. All in all, we have received an additional R134 million to fund the acquisition of human resource capacity in the coming financial year.

In terms of infrastructure development, we have also made additional funding available to roll out our office expansion this year. We shall spend R212 million on this infrastructure roll-out, growing to R369 million in 2008-09.

Further allocations have been made for our electronic document management system and the track and tracing tool for the civic services. The rewrite of the national population register and the movement control system will also receive further allocations.

Work on the smart ID card can only proceed once Cabinet has finalised its discussion on the appropriate procurement model for the card. An additional amount of R384 million has been set aside for this work.

Additional funds have also been provided throughout the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework for the improvement of service delivery. This will cover the acquiring of further mobile units for provinces to the tune of R79 million. Further amounts for other service delivery programmes are set at R115 million for the coming year.

With regard to countering corruption, we shall continue our efforts to capacitate our structures to fight corruption, particularly at provincial level to ensure swifter action and good response systems. We’ve received additional funds to the tune of R26,8 million for the next financial year.

Under immigration, the implementation of the new Act will continue to require additional capacity including more human resources. An amount of R26,4 million is the additional funds we are receiving from the fiscus for this work.

In terms of civic services, much of the work regarding civic services, as indicated in our strategic plan, will have to do with the civic services transformation project. A new project manager will be appointed to oversee the reorganisation of our new civic services branch in order for it to be properly capacitated to carry out its vast mandate.

The reorganisation will look into organisational policy and operational issues. It will cover new standard operating procedures, work flow and business processes, including the turnaround times for the finalisation of applications.

Chairperson, we present this budget to you at a time when we are aware of the levels of public concern regarding service delivery by the department. We are aware that we do not have forever to resolve these problems and that each task we have set ourselves is urgent. We are also aware that we need to be serious about implementing the programmes we have outlined here, that the things we undertake to do should be done.

It is for this reason that we have explained to all our managers that each of them must justify their continued presence in the department and, where we find serious lack of performance, we will have to act decisively. We believe that you should judge the work that we do by its ability to convince all our clients that today is better. Only when we succeed in doing that, will the Department of Home Affairs claim its contribution to the age of hope.

I want to thank the select committee for the support it has rendered to the department and for the oversight role it has been playing. The critical analysis and assessment of our department have really assisted us to sharpen our tools of analysis and also our tools of delivery. I want to thank you, Chair, for your work. I also want to thank the ordinary Members of Parliament for their continued support to the Department of Home Affairs. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Ms J M MASILO: House Chairperson, I am being intimidated by Kgoshi Mokoena here. Hon House Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, members of this House, the director-general of the department and senior management, the Department of Home Affairs has a mandate to protect and regulate the interests of the inhabitants of the Republic of South Africa, in respect of their individual status, identity and specific rights and powers, and to promote a supporting service to this effect.

I would like to talk about transformation in the department. In recent years there has been enormous progress to come up with one integrated system. This is in accordance with the rendering of adequate services to South African citizens. The concept of citizenship must always be central in practices of the Department of Home Affairs. In this regard, the needs and interests of citizens and foreigners should be met without undue delay or bureaucracy.

Indeed the process of transformation of the Department of Home Affairs is well recorded in the ANC’s 51st national conference resolution in Stellenbosch. It states that transformation of the department seeks to achieve efficient service, the security and the integrity of the population register.

In recent developments there is also the issue of a centralised database, whereas the population register serves to maintain a life profile of each person by capturing the records and updating them on an ongoing basis. In 2003, the department introduced the turnaround strategy in order to accelerate improvements in service delivery. Key focus programmes include administration services to citizens, immigration, and auxiliary and associated services.

More budgets are required to create more offices for home affairs related work in accordance with service delivery. Provincial offices infrastructure, mobile units, clients service centres, multi-purpose centres, border posts, refugees’ reception centres and foreign officers are to be maintained. This programme seeks to provide services to citizens by granting rights and powers, in order to deal with passports and travel matters, citizenship and population registration.

This approach seeks to promote control immigration in line with South Africa’s skills and investment needs, and control visitors who enter the country temporarily. In future, because of the increasing challenges of the distribution of IDs to the communities, the Department of Home Affairs will require enough resources. In this regard, with its client-focused and user- friendly services, it will play a crucial role in fighting crime, raising the dignity of people and stimulating economic development.

There are areas that require more improvement. Those areas relate to job evaluation for newly created senior management service posts that were finalised and a migration plan that was developed. New posts designations were developed and proposals were put in place for the ranking and career structure to be incorporated in a holistic human resource.

Approval was given to fill 268 funded posts on levels one to 12 within the 2004-05 financial year. About 40 posts on salary levels one to 12 were filled during the period from November 2004 to 31 March 2005. On salary levels 13 to 15, 31 posts were also advertised since June 2004, and of these 22 posts were filled. With regard to the internship programme during the year under review, 417 interns were appointed in the department. The committee compliments the department on the progress made under this programme.

The strategic objective of the department ought to bring the levels of capacity in line with the demands of service delivery. In regard to the structure, policy was revised in connection with service delivery. The job evaluation for newly created senior management service posts was finalised and a migration plan developed. Working with Sita will improve the Department of Home Affairs’ capacity to deliver on IT commitments.

The Department of Home Affairs is keen on building the state capacity regarding the services it has to render. These capacity areas include social security, justice and crime prevention, education and economic transaction. Internal capacity of human resources, infrastructure and technology are of critical importance.

The following are a few of the achievements of the department. The Department of Home Affairs has entered into a service level agreement with the post office with the delivery of IDs. Online registration of births and deaths are now taking place in more than 50 hospitals. The department introduced electronic child registration at hospital mobile units, especially in the areas that were previously not serviced.

The continuation of the campaign, for example, to prevent fraudulent marriages, is ongoing. The Immigration Amendment Act was promulgated and immigration regulations were published. Training programmes for immigration officers were developed and officers have been trained. Departmental nametags were also launched.

Out of 898 posts, 634 posts were filled. A total of 64 senior posts were also filled, of whom 23 appointees were female and 42 were male. The internship programme was launched and 653 interns have been appointed since the launch. A total of 491 vehicles was delivered, of which 323 were sent to provinces, 141 to NIB and 27 to the head office. In terms of delivering the vehicles, my constituency, Ga-Rankuwa-Mabopane was given the resources in terms of cars and the members there wrote to the select committee to thank the committee for its intervention. We also thank the department for the intervention in respect of the resources.

In the Limpopo province, in particular the Sekhukhune and Waterberg regions, service delivery and the Batho Pele principles do not exist. According to the report from the MEC of Health and Social Development, Comrade Sekoati, speedy intervention is greatly needed. The rural people pay up to R70 to get to the nearest town in order to get services, more especially on the flexi hours.

Free State and Northern Cape managers are doing very well in terms of great dedication to Batho Pele, anti-corruption and service delivery. This was experienced by the select committee doing oversight visits.

As regards budget programmes, we are happy about the increase in Programme 1: Administration, of 15%, from 4,2 to 4,9; and in Programme 2: Delivery of Services, from 1,5 to 1,7, which is a 9% increase. Programme 3: Auxiliary and Associated Services, shows a decrease of 46,8%. This decrease is because of the elections that we had last year, 2005. We won’t have elections until 2009, hence the decrease.

Among the challenges are a proposed 24-hour client service centre and research-driven practices to be entrenched in order to promote sufficient service delivery. South Africa has yet to pass specific legislation in order to implement the protocol. Trafficking and assisting traffickers are both prohibited in terms of immigration laws. These laws are also sufficiently flexible to promote the protection of victims of trafficking.

The Sexual Offences Bill, which is due to be passed this year, will make it easier to prosecute those who engage in trafficking for the purposes of sexual exploitation. Refugees and asylum seekers in South Africa are mostly young men.

Another challenge relates to the high level of immigration, including migration within countries from rural to urban areas. Migrants also experience the highest rate of HIV infection on the African continent. The focus must be on sex workers, mine workers, prisoners, drug users, and this affects mostly women and children of our beloved country. The good news is that condom use has increased among young people in South Africa, as well as HIV/Aids education awareness programmes.

In support of Asgisa, the department has given an undertaking to amend immigration legislation in order to facilitate the import of scarce skills in the short term. As noted in the Department of Home Affairs Strategic Plan 2006 to 2008-09, since 1994 South Africa has become a major partner in the international arena, which requires our service delivery plan to be in line with budget constraints.

Integrated service delivery and reaching out to rural areas needs resources to be available. Furthermore, promoting good global relations regarding the movement of people and goods within SADC and the management of immigration, mainly visas, border control admission practice needs or resources.

In conclusion, in this month of June we celebrate the 30th anniversary of the events of 16 June 1976. This anniversary, within the context of Home Affairs, is a significant symbol to instil hope of empowerment and development of our youth’s life skills education. On behalf of the Select Committee on Home Affairs, I would like to thank the Ministry and senior management for the dedicated support they give to the select committee at all times.

Lastly, I would like to thank the members of the select committee for their undivided support. God bless you all in this phase of hope in our history. The committee supports the Department of Home Affairs in its strategic plan and Budget Vote 4 presentation. Thank you. [Applause.]

Me H LAMOELA: Agb Voorsitter, grensposte bly ‘n groot bron van kommer omdat ons departement nie oor geskikte fasiliteite beskik om doeltreffende beheer uit te oefen nie. Persone wat by grensposte aandoen om vlugtelingstatus te bekom, kan nie onmiddellik gehelp word nie en word eenvoudig van Suid- Afrikaanse reisdokumente voorsien om in Kaapstad of Johannesburg om vlugtelingstatus aansoek te doen.

Bo en behalwe die amptelike aansoek om vlugtelingstatus is daar natuurlik ook onwettige immigrante in Suid-Afrika wat weens gebrekkige grensbeheer maklik oor ons grensposte beweeg. Heelwat persone kom die land selfs wettig binne, maar verdwyn dan eenvoudig in die sisteem. Die Suid-Afrikaanse ambassade in Harare alleen reik byvoorbeeld meer as ‘n duisend visums per dag aan Zimbabwiërs uit om Suid-Afrika te besoek, en ‘n mens wonder of hulle almal weer regtig terugkeer.

Om hierdie situasie reg te stel, sal die departement dringend vlugtelingkampe en –kantore wat deeglik toegerus en beman is, by alle grensposte moet instel; meer polisie en immigrasiebeamptes ontplooi om onwettige persone te kan aankeer; deelnemers wat hulle skuldig maak deur onwettige immigrante in diens te neem, swaar strawwe oplê; en korrupte amptenare wat onwettig verblyfdokumente teen vergoeding uitreik, ontslaan en beboet.

Onwettige immigrasie in ons provinsies kniehalter ook die lewering van uiters belangrike dienste, soos primêre gesondheidsorg en skoolonderrig, veral byvoorbeeld in die Limpopo-provinsie, wat naby ons grense geleë is.

Graag verwys ek na ons agb President toe hy na die implementering van Asgisa verwys het en beklemtoon het dat toerisme een van die belangrikste sektore van ekonomiese groei is. Dit moet reeds baie meer doeltreffend bedryf word. Hoewel toerisme deur die Departement van Omgewingsake en Toerisme bedryf word, speel die Departement van Binnelandse Sake ‘n belangrike rol in die prosessering van reisdokumente en paspoorte. Binnelandse Sake beheer instroming in Suid-Afrika oor ons grensposte, lughawens en hawens, en moet dus verseker dat dienste effektief en bevoeg uitgevoer word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Ms H LAMOELA: Hon Chairperson, border posts remain a major source of concern because our department does not have suitable facilities at its disposal to exercise efficient control. Individuals who come to border posts to obtain refugee status cannot be assisted immediately and are simply provided with South African travel documents to apply for refugee status in Cape Town or Johannesburg.

In addition to the official application for refugee status, there are of course also illegal immigrants in South Africa who go through our border posts easily because of poor border control. A considerable number of individuals even enter the country legally, but then simply disappear into the system. For example, the South African embassy in Harare alone issues more than a thousand visas per day to Zimbabweans to visit South Africa, and one wonders whether all of them really return.

In order to rectify this situation, the department will have to establish fully equipped staffed refugee camps and refugee offices at all border posts as a matter of urgency; deploy more police and immigration officials to arrest illegal individuals; impose severe penalties on participants who are guilty of employing illegal immigrants; and dismiss and fine corrupt officials who illegally issue residence permits for compensation. Illegal immigration in our provinces also hinders the delivery of crucially important services, such as primary health care and schooling, especially, for example, in the Limpopo province, which is situated near our borders.

I would like to mention our hon President’s reference to the implementation of Asgisa, in which he emphasised that tourism was one of the most important sectors of economic growth. It should already have been operating much more efficiently. Although tourism is managed by the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism, the Department of Home Affairs plays an important role in the processing of travel documents and passports. Home Affairs controls entry into South Africa through our border posts, airports and harbours, and should therefore ensure that services are rendered efficiently and competently.]

The DA proposes that Hanis be made fully operational as soon as possible. This will go a long way towards decreasing ID, passport, grant and pension fraud. The internal auditing capacity of Home Affairs should be improved so as to reduce fraud and better monitor performance. However, understaffing, inadequate training and poor office location, inappropriate staff attitudes towards clients, offices in poor condition and inadequately equipped, continue to hinder the progress of the Batho Pele programme.

Besides numerous examples of corruption, the Department of Home Affairs consistently fails its customers. The Department of Home Affairs’ progress with regard to employment equity targets should give a good indication of how far it is lagging behind. In addition, during oversight visits to the department’s regional offices in 2005, it was evident that not all regional offices are accessible to people with disabilities. Critical issues include a lack of ramps for wheelchairs, the use of lifts without voice prompts for blind persons, and no toilets for people with disabilities.

Due to the vast distances in many provinces, and especially the Northern Cape, the department is very dependent on mobile units to provide services for remote areas. The mobile units are not effective enough in rendering world-class services, as these units cannot issue certificates on the spot. It is highly recommended that fully-fledged on-line mobile trucks be made available to the provinces, so as to improve services, especially in the most rural areas. All services in the other provinces should also be monitored and shortfalls should be addressed accordingly.

In the last few weeks we have heard what the Minister said and what her department has done. We have not heard what is to happen to the accounting officer. We have also heard what is to happen to some officials who have been suspended and are likely to be fired from their positions. Surely, if the Minister publicly acknowledges that she has been misled by her own department, this then provides good grounds to consider options available in terms of the legislation available, particularly the Public Finance Management Act. This Act discourages fruitless expenditure.

It is incumbent upon the Minister to recommend to the hon President Mbeki that the director-general of this department be fired for misleading the Minister. This legislation is in place, but we have yet to see a single head of department being relieved of his or her duties for violating the provisions of this Act. Year in, year out we observe and hear how DGs could not spend their allocations and finances are returned to the Treasury or there is a request for a roll-over. Let this department be an example to many departments that have DGs that are not performing. Make the Department of Home Affairs a good home for all. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mrs A N D QIKANI: Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, Deputy Minister, hon members and dignitaries, I greet you. As the budget has been tabled, my task is to make sense of what has been captured and what is crucial or lacking. To begin with, it is essential to mention that an overhaul of the administration and staff development was seriously needed at Home Affairs, meaning developing staff in order that they are able to implement the department’s policies. With the allocation for improving human resources, this is a reality we can’t ignore; it deserves applause. This is because this has been a major problem in the rest of the country, particularly with regard to the finance and public relations of the whole department. I am certain that this time we are moving in the right direction and we stand to gain significantly, particularly in the Eastern Cape where Home Affairs property is at its worst. For example, the Home Affairs premises in Butterworth, as compared to other cities with larger populations to serve, falls in the above category and, therefore, is not the right place for work and public service. They are not spacious. As a result, people fall victim to bad weather. Butterworth is just one example among many areas in the Eastern Cape province.

Sihlalo, iinqwelo ezikhutshwayo lisebe lezekhaya ukunceda uluntu azanelanga kwaphela. Xa usiya kweliya lamaMpondo emazantsi eMpuma Koloni, kusenzima kakhulu ukufumana izinto ezifana neziqinisekiso zokuzalwa nezokufa. Sicela ukuba uMphathiswa awuse iliso elibanzi loo mbandela. Mandibulele kuMphathiswa ngonciphiso lorhwaphiliso. Noxa lusaqhubeka, kambe izinga alisekho phezulu. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Chairperson, the transport services provided by the Department of Home Affairs are not sufficient. In Pondoland, in the southern part of the Eastern Cape, it is still very hard to get things like birth certificates and death certificates. We ask the Minister to address this as a matter of urgency. I would like to thank the Minister for the reduction in the corruption rate. Although corruption still continues, it is no longer at a high rate.]

I need not to dwell much on this, as the budget on its own is, to an extent, satisfactory. With these words, hon Minister, I would like say …

… tswela pele ka tiro e ntle. [… keep up the good work.]

The UDM supports the Budget Vote. [Applause.]

Nkk J N VILAKAZI: Mphathisihlalo ohloniphekile, abahlonishwa oNgqongqoshe bomnyango kanye nabahlonishwa bonke abakhona kule Ndlu, umsebenzi obalulekile womnyango wakho Ngqongqoshe kanye nobambisene nabo ukubhekele wonke amalungelo abantu nokugcina isithunzi somuntu sihloniphekile lapha eNingizimu Afrika. Okokuqala, siyabonga eMnyangweni wezaseKhaya ngokusilethela omahambanendlwana - sebeshilo abanye ozakwethu – ukusiza abahlala emakhaya akude namahhovisi alo mnyango.

KwaZulu-Natali nje lapho ngivela khona mina kunomahambanendlwana abayisishiyagalolunye bokusiza kulokhu esengikushilo, kodwa-ke okuseyinkinga nokungakaxazululeki kahle ukwephuza kwalezi zincwadi ezibalulekile ukufika kubantu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Hon Chairperson, hon members, Ministers of the departments and all the hon members present in this House, the vital role of your department, Minister, and those you are working with, which is to protect the rights of all the people and to protect their dignity, is greatly admired here in South Africa. Firstly, we thank the Department of Home Affairs for introducing the mobile offices - other colleagues have mentioned this - to help those who live far from the offices of the department.

In KwaZulu-Natal, where I come from, there are nine mobile offices to help with regard to the situation I have just mentioned. What is, however, still a problem which has not been resolved is the delay in these important documents reaching their owners.]

During last year in KwaZulu-Natala, 26 000 identity documents were not delivered.

Lokhu kukodwa kusho ukuthi izinkulungwane zabantu aziyanga ukuyovota. Abanye abakwazanga ukubhalisela impesheni nokunye nokunye. Siyanicela, Ngqongqoshe, ukuthi nithi ukubhukula impela kulokhu; uMnyango wezaseKhaya unzima kakhulu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[This alone means that there are thousands of people who did not vote. Others were not able to register for their pension, etc. Minister, we request that you put more effort into this, because the Department of Home Affairs has a big problem.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Chairperson, Minister, hon members, yesterday, 5 June 2006, my mother turned 60. She is a strong and hard- working woman who has been part of my life from the day I was conceived. The circumstances of her birth determined that she would not be treated as an honoured citizen of this country, and for many decades Home Affairs was a place where this subhuman identity would be confirmed.

As a mother, the birth of her children should have meant that they were all registered at birth, in the hospital where she delivered them, to enable them to access, first and foremost, their citizenship and their socioeconomic rights that attach to such citizenship. Of course, as you know, this was not to be, as citizenship in South Africa was denied both her and her children.

She was lucky that her parents educated her, because the coincidence of her birth as a rural African woman should have condemned her to illiteracy, unemployment and poverty, which would have determined that she would, as she turned 60 years old, be desperate to receive her pension in order to get some relief from the devastating poverty into which she would have been consigned by decades of grinding poverty.

As I prepared for this debate, the coincidence of her completing three score years yesterday allowed me the occasion to profoundly appreciate not only the woman she is, but also the journey traversed to liberate South Africa and the full challenge that this poses for Home Affairs. Despite the many mountains she had to climb, she has been fortunate to have work and a pension and is under no pressure to obtain her ID or rectify it in order to earn her desperately awaited pension or claim social grants for her grandchildren.

The services that the Department of Home Affairs renders to our people not only confirm their citizenship and dignity, but also determine relief from poverty for many people who are in less fortunate positions. They are vital in determining whether this age of hope will bring to full reality the promises of democracy and a better life or will remain fossilised in the present, forever the age of hope and nothing more.

I wish to state the obvious, namely that the notion of the age of hope is not so much in the creation but in the act of creating itself. It is rather about the painstaking and arduous effort that should go into creating hope than celebrating the mere fact alone that we are in the age of hope.

We know that the Department of Home Affairs has a major role to play in ensuring that the age of hope translates into reality to ensure that it supports government programmes such as Asgisa and Jipsa. We are thus honoured today to have to present Budget Vote No 4 before this august House, mindful of the high expectations of our people and their impatience for quality and convenient service delivery now. We are aware of the heavy challenges that they, especially the poor and the rural people, continue to confront every day in their quest to obtain Home Affairs’ services.

In presenting this Budget Vote, we rededicate ourselves to the noble vision of the youth of 1976 and pay tribute to their heroism. Accordingly, as our contribution to deepening youth participation and development today, and together with the Department of Education and other partners, we have embarked on a national campaign targeting students in order to raise their level of social consciousness and civic responsibility.

In addition to these and in order to further raise our capacity to discharge our responsibilities, we have implemented an extensive internship programme since 2004. On Friday, 2 June 2006, we launched the National Youth Service Programme, and we have recruited 300 young people for placement in frontline offices, multipurpose community centres and hospitals. This will enhance both our service delivery capacity as well as youth employability.

We have also deployed the mobile units to schools in various provinces to assist the learners to obtain birth certificates and IDs. We shall continue to expand this programme and to explore further avenues to empower the youth of our country.

We have also continued to provide hands-on strategic leadership to the Film Publication Board, Government Printing Works and the Information Services branch; consolidated the leadership and management structure; made new strategic recruitments; stemmed the loss of qualified personnel; and enhanced the capacity of the provinces. We shall continue during this year with greater vigour and purpose to implement a concerted human resource development plan to continue to enhance the capacity of all these business units.

We have continued to pursue the ideal of e-government in order to provide integrated and convenient services to citizens through the use of information systems, with the intention to transform Home Affairs into the model user of information and communication technology. We are on course to complete the back record conversion by June this year and will complete the absorption of the records into the Hanis system in 2007.

During 2006 we shall begin to pilot the e-passport and to finalise outstanding issues regarding the smart ID card. Further, in order to facilitate this, we shall, before the end of 2006, launch the live capture pilot project in the Northern Cape and, in due course, extend it to all our offices countrywide. This will, in the fullness of time, serve to eliminate archaic, manual and paper-based workflow processes that have caused us many inefficiencies.

During this past year we adopted the turnaround strategy for the Film and Publication Board and began to implement it. We also strengthened compliance with corporate governance principles. We now have, among others, a fully functional audit committee and we have had a clean report in the previous financial year.

We continue to raise national focus on the campaign against child pornography and shall take further steps this year. We are happy to report that compliance with the Act in general has drastically improved and mobile phone operators adopted a code of good practice further to protect the children. We shall seek further ways to bring broadcasters and the print media within the classification framework, and shall consider whether we should not totally ban cellular phone pornography.

This year, we shall also finalise the long-awaited ministerial task team on child pornography and shall take further steps to enhance Film and Publication Board compliance with corporate governance by implementing the recommendations of the forensic audit and recommending comprehensive legislative amendments, which will also impact on the structure of the board.

We have also continued to take new and further strides to strengthen, reposition and transform the Government Printing Works. In regard to the conversion of the GPW, we shall soon take to Cabinet our recommendations concerning the conversion of this organisation into an efficient and effective specialist security printing agency.

To ensure maximum security printing of all security items in conditions requisite to support the processes of such scale, we shall complete the relocation of the GPW to a specially designed complex by December 2007. We intend to move the production and printing of all security documents under the precincts of the GPW to ensure that it happens under maximum security in order to drastically enhance the integrity of the process as a whole.

The Government Printing Works, working with Home Affairs, is developing additional and more complex security features for all our security documents and is working towards enhancing all-round security, both in terms of systems and processes of printing and production.

We wish to seize this opportunity to issue a clarion call to all our people to respect and protect their identity and passport documents. Loss of these documents results in, among others, many undeserving people fraudulently obtaining our citizenship and thus polluting the national population register.

Furthermore, we must appeal to every South African to apply for a regular passport in order to eliminate the need for temporary passports which we may in time have to do away with as this system is greatly abused, difficult to manage and is causing us enormous security and integrity challenges internationally.

We have also approved a major machinery and equipment replacement programme of about R95 million that will catapult the GPW into a new level on a par with its peers. The forensic audit of the GPW was completed and action shall continue to be taken during this financial year through involving relevant law-enforcement agencies and at the same time taking necessary disciplinary action against certain members.

Further to these steps, we shall complete the development of a comprehensive transformation strategy, which should include developing unique capabilities in order to expand the GPW into Africa as well as its research and development capacity.

I would like to say to the millions of youth, children and women of South Africa who yearn for a drastic improvement in the quality of their lives, we know that we still have a mountain to climb to ensure that the services we deliver to them, which they expect of us, take them beyond the age of hope into the age of real people’s power. To my mother, I say happy birthday day, mum!

I wish to thank the Minister, the staff of the Ministry, the director- general and his entire team, as well as the CEOs of the Film and Publication Board and Government Printing Works; the chairperson of the select committee and the entire committee; and my wife, Thabo, and family for all their support. Thank you very much, Chair, and congratulations on your shoes! [Laughter.] [Applause.]

Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Daar is ‘n hele aantal vreemde mense wat hier in Suid- Afrika werk, en ek wil my daar aansluit by wat my kollega van die DA me Lamoela gesê het. Sy het besorgdheid uitgespreek oor die groot aantal vreemdelinge wat in Suid-Afrika werksaam is, en die vraag word gevra: het hulle werklik werkspermitte? Wat is die posisie? Wat doen die ministerie ten opsigte van dié klomp vreemdelinge?

Dit is baie interessant dat daar byvoorbeeld in ‘n plek soos Worcester ‘n klomp “car watchers” is. Ek gesels gereeld met dié mense, wat van die Demokratiese Republiek van die Kongo kom. Hulle is baie vriendelike mense en doen baie goeie werk, maar die vraag is: hoeveel Suid-Afrikaners hou hulle uit die werk uit? As hulle hier is met wettige paspoorte of wettige werkspermitte, is dit goed en wel, maar neem die ministerie die probleem wat dit moontlik kan veroorsaak, in ag?

Die begroting word van harte ondersteun, veral gesien in die lig van die komende Wêreldbekersokkertoernooi van 2010 wat aangebied word. Groot getalle vreemdelinge gaan die land binnekom en die ministerie sal gerat moet wees om die mense wat binnekom, te hanteer en ook seker te maak dat hulle weer vertrek. Uit hoofde daarvan word die begroting wat deur die ministerie aangevra word deur die Vryheidsfront gesteun. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: There are a number of foreigners who work in South Africa, and I want to concur with what my colleague from the DA Ms Lamoela said. She expressed concern about the large number of foreigners who work in South Africa, and the question being asked is: Do they really have work permits? What is the position? What is the Ministry doing with regard to these foreigners?

It is very interesting to note that in a place like Worcester there are many “car watchers”. I regularly talk to these people who come from the Democratic Republic of Congo. They are very friendly people and they do a very good job, but the question is: How many South Africans are they keeping out of employment? It is all very well if they are here with legal passports or legal work permits. But is the Ministry taking into account the problem that this may possibly cause?

The budget is wholeheartedly supported, especially in the light of our hosting the Soccer World Cup in 2010. Large numbers of foreigners will be coming to the country and the Ministry should be geared to deal with these people who will be entering the country and also to make sure that they leave.

On account of this, the Freedom Front supports the budget that has been requested by the Ministry. I thank you.]

Mr N D HENDRICKSE: Hon Chair, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister and hon members, it would not be unfair to say that this department faces serious management and co-operative governance challenges, and that its performance has been disappointing.

The long waiting period for the establishment of the Immigration Advisory Board initially led by Prof James Wilmot, who subsequently resigned, led to problems in the application of immigration legislation. The number of illegal refugees in the country, not only from neighbouring Zimbabwe but also from other African countries is a cause for concern. The time it takes to apply for refugee status is costly for the applicant.

Corruption seems to be endemic in this department; bribery for ID books and smuggling at border posts are but some of the ills present. The question must be asked whether this department is driven by incompetence, fraud and corruption. Some reports estimate that millions of applicants have been unable to get their IDs.

Another important aspect is the department’s alignment of policy to address scarce skills as foreign companies still battle to get work permits for expatriates. This tardiness is a frustration to many foreign workers in South Africa. Asking the Treasury to intervene in the department’s finances says it all. The wholesale dysfunctionality of financial management requires serious forensic audits and system reviews by the Treasury. The department should readvertise posts for a competent chief financial officer. We hope the Treasury will keep a tight monitoring eye on Home Affairs.

I must say, however, that I was encouraged this morning when I listened to the Minister and the Deputy Minister, and we want to wish them well with the turnaround strategy. It seems that the future will look brighter than what we see of the past today. Thank you.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Chairperson, on a lighter note, when I was still in the ANC Youth League together with the Deputy Minister we used to talk about the type of shoes that different types of people should wear, and over a long period of time he convinced me to wear his style. He didn’t want competition, so I was persuaded to adopt his style! [Laughter.]

Hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon members, director-general of the department, Mr Maqetuka, and his team, ladies and gentlemen, friends and comrades, I am happy that the Minister in her presentation before this august House noted that the Department of Home Affairs is an exclusive national competence, presupposing that it is only located at central government level. We don’t have this kind of department at provincial level. In that respect the Minister alluded further to the fact that maybe that is one of the reasons why there has not been an ongoing dynamic interface between the department and the select committee.

I welcome that statement, hon Minister, but in welcoming the statement, I want to say that the Department of Home Affairs cannot continue to be the Department of Home Affairs of before the democratic breakthrough of 27 April 1994. The Department of Home Affairs is at the centre of service delivery in South Africa. If anything goes wrong with the Department of Home Affairs, many other departments in government are affected directly or indirectly.

I also want to say, hon Minister, that the ability of government to create a better life for all our people resides, most unfortunately, in the Department of Home Affairs, and it is my considered view that we as politicians, public representatives, have not given the prominence to this department that we should have, even more so when one looks at how this department was structured before last year. You only had the head of the department, and everybody else without exact rating was a clerk in that department. Hence the history of red tape that we have.

When a woman in Limpopo goes to the Home Affairs office and applies for a birth certificate for a child, and the official at the point of service does not have an understanding or clarity as to how he or she can tackle a particular problem facing him or her, that woman will be sent home with an instruction to come back the following week, because the official will first have to phone Pretoria to get clarity from someone else.

So we appreciate, hon Minister, the human resource plan that you announced last year in your turnaround strategy, which you have implemented, and we appreciate the fact that this human resource plan has not only dealt with capacity at national level, but has also begun to address the issue of capacity in provinces, to build capacity in terms of responsiveness to the needs and urgency of our people on the ground, by ensuring that for the first time you have chief directors who are competent to take certain policy and operational decisions without calling Pretoria. And if they don’t have an answer on the same day, delivery to our people is postponed until Pretoria responds.

Hon Minister, we are pleased that your human resource plan has addressed a myriad of challenges that have defined this department since before 1994, and we really want to say that for us in the ANC, when you outlined the turnaround strategy two years ago, it was not just a matter of a cliché relating to the passing mood of events, but a fundamental programme that sought to reposition this department to respond to the broader developmental priorities of government and the service delivery challenges that the countrys is supposed to respond to. Quite certainly, I don’t think it’s correct for anybody to make generalisations about the challenges that are facing the Department of Home Affairs. There was never a leadership – maybe one should say that – in that department, even after 1994. If there was a leadership that leadership might not have been assertive enough. If there was a leadership that leadership might not have had the necessary and requisite vision and capability to make that department what it was supposed to be. We know what the problems were in that department, not so?

Have we now forgotten the very same history of where this department comes from, and the kind of problems that have characterised this department? We hear some noises here from people who forget that history of where the Department of Home Affairs came from before the new Ministry came with the turnaround strategy.

I want to mention an issue that was raised by the hon Dr Van Heerden from my own province of the Free State. Hon Van Heerden, there used to be issues of public interest in this country before 2004 that relate essentially to this department, and these issues will affect a minority or one or two persons, but they will be big issues to some amongst us today. They were not about Zimbabwe or the DRC.

I submit that the statement you were making today in front of this august House, as you were supporting your colleague in the DA, is not only xenophobic, but also racist. I’m referring to your statement that you were not sure how many of the Zimbabweans you met in the streets of our country and how many of the people from the DRC you met in this country had legal status to be in South Africa. I don’t think that’s a legitimate question that we need to pose in this kind of debate.

The legitimate question should be what the status is when it comes to illegal immigrants who are in South Africa, because a notion has evolved in our country long before 27 April 1994 that the only illegal immigrants in South Africa are the ones who are from Africa, not elsewhere, and that notion is false. If you go to newspapers you’ll see the kind of crimes – I’m talking about multimillion-rand crimes – that were committed by immigrants in this country. Most of those immigrants were not from Zimbabwe, Zambia, Tanzania or any of the African countries, but you often keep quiet when they happen.

Therefore my conclusion is that your statement in that regard is not only xenophobic, but, at worst, racist. [Interjections.] We are not going to agree on that particular point.

Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Chairperson, on a point of order: This colleague is out of order by referring to my speech as a racist speech. I object to that most seriously, and I apply to you to consider that remark to be unparliamentary.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Hon Van Heerden, that is not a point of order. He’s referring to his own speech at the moment.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Yes, Chairperson, we need to debate these things, because when we keep quiet people think that we don’t have views and positions on this matter. The same applies to the cheek and audacity that were displayed by the hon Lamoela. [Interjections.]

We had a meeting last week with the department and in that meeting both the committee and the director-general and officials of the department agreed that we were not going to deal with this publicised financial position of the department, firstly, owing to the lack of time, and secondly, because we felt that the committee should engage with the department on that matter in a more systematic way to get to the bottom of it.

Having agreed on this, today she comes here and says that the director- general – the accounting officer is a director-general – is incompetent and that she should be fired. I’m not sure what’s the basis of that. Maybe it confirms what the other Minister said in the previous debate, namely that somebody else might have written the speech for the hon Lamoela, because I don’t think those are her legitimate … [Interjections.]

Hon member, the hon Lamoela doesn’t want to tell us that her own organisation that wants to run Cape Town is incapable of running that particular municipality! [Interjections.] She doesn’t want to tell us that the mayor of the City of Cape Town does not have a political vision, and that’s why they are having problems. [Interjections.] She puts her narrow party-political interests above the interests of the people of Cape Town. [Interjections.] [Applause.] [Time expired.]

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Thank you very much, hon Chair. Thank you very much to all hon members for their participation in this debate and for their constructive participation and criticism of the department. We have noted all the views expressed and comments made.

I want to start by acknowledging a statement, which was made by hon Vilakazi, who referred to the work of this department. The Department of Home Affairs is indeed a department that deals with human rights and the issues of the restoration of the dignity of our people. It is about that. If it is not about restoring the dignity of our people, then it means that the failure to do so is an indictment on our government. That is really what should be informing our work and that is what we should all be committing ourselves to. That is why I said that I am taking all the comments seriously. I would want to believe that all of us as South Africans would want to contribute to that restoration of the dignity of the people of South Africa. I am really happy that a member made reference to the recognition of the service level agreement, which we have signed with the SA Post Office. It is indeed a very significant step, which we have taken that we finally signed the agreement, rather than merely talking about it, and make reference to it. It is a very significant move. This is going to help us to distribute our IDs nationwide, because the issue of our people not collecting their IDs from our offices remains a sore point, as we all know as MPs. We see it in our constituencies. People apply for IDs and then they never collect them. It is a major challenge for the Department of Home Affairs.

We had commissioned, as you know, the CSIR about two years ago, to assist us in providing us with a report about how to plan to move forward, as we build offices. We should not just decide out of the blue where to build an office. We have to plan and decide what informs the taking of that decision. We take into consideration the population density and everything that goes with it.

That report says that we should actually build 170 offices countrywide so as to ensure easy access for all the people of South Africa. It actually shows the size of the backlog that we have. For this year we have planned that we will build three offices in Sebokeng, Phuthaditjhaba and Taung. We have a huge backlog in this country as a government in terms of Home Affairs, because of the historical problems of the disadvantaged people.

There was reference to the online registration of births and the fact that there has been computerisation and online connectivity at various hospitals, but that the system is not working. I want to set the record straight. Since 2004 we have been connected to 109 hospitals countrywide. Can I just correct hon members: the smart card ID system is but one element of Hanis. The AFIS that was mentioned by the Deputy Minister and the record conversion system is almost completed and is working. It has been working for the past year and is almost completed.

This online registration is also one element of it. You now have online registration of our children. It is working and to date 109 hospitals have been connected to the Department of Home Affairs. Our children are being registered. When you give birth, your child is registered even before you leave the hospital.

A total of 67 mobile units were distributed countrywide – 10 for Limpopo, 10 for the Eastern Cape, 10 for KZN - and you know the reasons why - 6 for Gauteng, 6 for the Free State, 6 for the North West, 6 for the Western Cape and 6 for Mpumalanga. This year we shall be giving them 42 more mobile units and they will be distributed as widely as possible in all the provinces. This will be apart from the 67 units which have already been distributed to create more capacity. Because of this challenge we still need to build 170 offices. We must create capacity. We must take our services to the people. It is a backlog and we must deal with it collectively.

Somebody said that these mobile units are not effective. They are indeed very effective. These mobile units reach the most remote areas of our provinces. For instance, this past year almost 45 000 ID applications were made at the mobile units. Nearly 30 000 birth registrations were made at the mobile units. It is not true that when you register your child at the mobile unit, you don’t get a certificate. That is one area where we are very efficient. You register a child at a mobile unit and you will get a certificate on the spot. People may just be misinformed. I needed to correct that.

I am glad hon Qikane mentioned corruption and what we are doing about it. Our staff unit that deals with this issue is concentrated at head office. What we need to do is to create capacity so that we decentralise, because they don’t have the capacity to deal with all the provinces.

We have many foreigners working in South Africa. I wish they all had permits. We have made it easy for people to acquire permits in this country. Many of them are illegal immigrants and if you check then you’ll see that people prefer using them, particularly on the farms. People want cheap labour. These are some of the things that we need to check in our constituencies. It is a good thing that the hon member raised this particular matter. I did address the issue of the IABI last week. The Immigration Advisory Board is still there. By now we should have a new one in place, seeing that we have new immigration regulations. However, we may not be able to disband the old IAB and put a new one in its place, before the old one has rounded off its work and completed the outstanding exemptions. They must complete their work in order for me to set up a new advisory board. I would have been very happy to set up my own advisory board, because, indeed I have inherited an advisory board that has been there for a long time.

Lastly, regarding the issue of asylum seekers and the fact that the process of registration takes long, there are asylum seekers who have been in this country for 10 years and they remain asylum seekers. Status determination has not been done and that is why we are now launching the backlog project on Refugee Day. It has been ongoing but we are not officially launching it. We have a backlog of people whose status determination has not been processed for many, many years because of capacity problems. We are now, together with the UNACR and other stakeholders, training and appointing status determination officers at different points where we are running a huge project called the backlog project.

The Department of Home Affairs wants to deal solely with new applications but this project is going to run concurrently and will deal with this entire backlog. You may find that some of the people that we call asylum seekers are actually economic migrants, who may not fall into the category of asylum seekers. You may find that after 10 years of waiting, they may not qualify for refugee status. They would have to pack their bags and leave the country after waiting for 10 years. They themselves know that they don’t qualify and are just trying their luck. Thank you once more for your participation. [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

Business suspended at 11:30 and resumed at 14:06.

Afternoon sitting

                         APPROPRIATION BILL


                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 2 – Parliament:

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Chairperson, Budget Vote No 2 is the Vote allocated to Parliament. You are aware that we started presenting this budget last year because we believe it is very important that people should understand what happens in Parliament, so that Members of Parliament can also participate in the Budget Vote on Parliament.

Hon members, the year under review was both challenging and rewarding. We continued to soldier on, spurred by our vision of building an effective people’s Parliament that is responsive to the needs of the people and that is driven by the ideal of realising a better quality of life for all the people of our country. We have reached that stage where we need to give an account of some of our achievements and challenges.

As freely elected representatives of the people, our main duty is to build a democratic Parliament that is transparent and responsive to the electorate and that develops and follows a legislative agenda that is aimed at accelerating the transformation of our South African society.

When I stood here last year, on the occasion of Parliament’s Budget Vote, I highlighted our democratic tradition of ensuring public involvement in the governing of our country. I indicated to members that our budget, which stood at R885 million, would assist the institution in promoting public participation and in performing its oversight function.

The success of the People’s Assembly held at Kliptown in June last year to mark the celebrations of the Freedom Charter was one of the highlights of our public participation activities. Members who attended the event would agree with me that our people were enthusiastic about the opportunity to engage with their leaders on the direction that our country must take.

As we agreed that this would be an annual event in Parliament’s calendar, this year’s People’s Assembly will be held from 14 to 15 September here in the Western Cape.

Equally successful were the events in Limpopo in November last year and the Northern Cape in March this year, which were undertaken by this House as part of the programme Taking Parliament to the People.

Other events aimed at promoting public participation will include: the Youth Parliament to be held from 28 to 29 June - in recognition of the contribution made by the youth in the realisation of a democratic society as we commemorate 30 years since 16 June 1976 events.

Secondly, the Women’s Parliament will be held from 3 to 4 August 2006, and will form part of our continued attempt to reach out to women in a focused manner in order to provide them with an opportunity to have their voices heard.

A new concept that you are probably not aware of is the parliamentary democracy offices. Have you heard about this? Not yet. The parliamentary democracy offices were established in order for us to further maintain and strengthen the link between Parliament and the people. We are in the process of establishing parliamentary democracy offices, starting with four provinces.

The purposes of these offices are: to increase points where people can access Parliament; to create an immediate parliamentary presence in the provinces; and to ensure a greater level of efficiency in accessing communities and providing ground support for parliamentary programmes.

These PDOs will be established in all nine provinces and they will eventually be supported by a fleet of mobile offices that will be equipped to take Parliament even further into rural areas. We will have a physical office in the rural areas that will operate on a daily basis. You will also have a mobile office like the ones used by the Department of Home Affairs. It will assist MPs when committees go to the rural areas for public hearings.

Any event and any information will be provided and Ministers can use those offices to give information to the public on the ground. That is one way of increasing public participation on the ground. These examples show that our Parliament is breaking new ground in positioning itself as a people’s Parliament, a Parliament of all the people, for the people, and by the people.

Further evidence of the high premium we place on promoting public participation, is in the manner in which we engaged with the African Peer Review Mechanism. Our decision to embark on a countrywide outreach programme with regard to this programme was spurred by a belief that the role of parliaments in this continental mechanism was not adequately elaborated.

Guided by this, we then established formal structures to participate in the country’s assessment and other processes of the APRM. We exercised extreme care to avoid duplication with the process driven by the Peer Review Governing Council.

While noting the fact that the limited time for the completion of the process negatively affected the extent of these engagements, we are however encouraged by the positive public response to the process and the invaluable outcomes. We hope to gain more in subsequent peer review processes.

The leadership of Parliament would like to extend a word of gratitude to all those who participated in the process, including our members and staff. We are looking forward to the finalisation of the country assessment report and the visit by the country review team, which we expect to happen in July.

In terms of the oversight of the executive, since the first democratic elections, significant transformation has occurred through the legislative process. The period 1994-2004 saw a sustained focus on eradicating discriminatory legislation from the statute books and laying the foundations for our democratic and open society.

With these enormous and unprecedented reforms, passed in the form of over 700 laws, the focus of Parliament turned to its oversight function, ensuring that the ideal of realising a better quality of life for all the people of South Africa will come true.

In line with this, Parliament is establishing an oversight model that will ensure a quality process of scrutinising and overseeing executive action, focused on the following areas: a quality oversight and accountability process; determining systems and human resource capacity required for the function of oversight; and the necessary technical mechanisms, tools, content and research support for oversight. There are strategic projects underway to enhance the oversight role of Parliament.

The establishment of the first democratic Parliament meant that Parliament, as an institution, was to undergo unprecedented and fundamental transformation as required by the interim constitution and later the new Constitution.

A complete and wholly new institution was to be established, on both the political and administrative levels. New rules, procedures, mechanisms and capacities were needed to effectively do the work of the new Parliament. As an institution, significant changes were also needed in the administration of Parliament to meet the demand for services by Members of Parliament, as they performed their functions outlined in the Constitution.

As I indicated last year, when we debated Parliament’s Vote, the Auditor- General’s report of 2003-04 highlighted areas of weakness in Parliament’s financial and administrative systems. I am happy to report that work is ongoing to ensure that we improve on this and other areas.

We have recently begun implementing a new Enterprise Resource Planning System called Marang, which is part of our vision of creating a more efficient and effective institution, to help us deliver a better service to all the people of South Africa. The system will reduce manual processes and do away with repetitive data-capturing methods so that we can work faster and smarter.

On 1 April 2006, Parliament successfully implemented a new travel system for Members of Parliament and their dependants and this system enforces stricter travel policy compliance without restrictions, while at the same time providing each member with traveller satisfaction and professional service. The new travel system addresses significant shortcomings in the previous travel procurement process.

The new system provides for: efficient control of members’ travel; final approval by a member of his or her travel; immediate availability of information on members’ travel for verification; and the central storage of data. The system allows members to make their bookings and authorise them irrespective of their location in the country.

Further completed projects include the implementation of the National Assembly sound and voting system, the upgrading of our Information Technology networks and the implementation of the digital recording system for Hansard.

An important development in respect of our strategic plan is the establishment of institutional mechanisms to align strategic planning, business planning, budgeting, performance management and reporting functions within Parliament.

Several new initiatives are under way to address the identified challenges to realising a more effective and efficient Parliament. All these and other projects, will lead the way in realising our vision that seeks to build an effective Parliament, a Parliament of all the people, for the people, and by the people.

There are of course some other pressing challenges that we are looking to address to create a people’s Parliament in line with our vision. One of these is the issue of shortage of space in Parliament. We are looking into this matter.

Members of this House will be aware that for some time now we have had problems with our web-based information management system, NCOP Online, a critical tool for communication between the NCOP and provincial legislatures, the public and other key stakeholders. We are attending to this issue with a view to re-introducing this service.

The theme of this year is: All shall have equal rights. We are confident that some of these efforts I have highlighted will assist us in ensuring that all our people enjoy equal rights, which is our theme for this year.

As you are aware, earlier this year we initiated a process of looking at equality laws to see to what extent they have benefited our people. Our approach is biased towards gender and people with disabilities. This is important if we agree that this country is for all its people. The review process will form part of the mechanisms we will use to monitor implementation of policy and the impact of this on the people.

Hon members, I need not emphasise the important role played by our committees in driving the work of Parliament. I am aware of the challenges faced especially by our select committees, a number of which are contained in the report of the Strategic Review Workshop of 5 to 7 May 2006, submitted to my office last week.

I have noted, among many, the following: the importance of promoting intergovernmental relations through interaction at committee level, through monitoring the extent of co-ordination and mutual support between the three spheres of government in terms of advancing broader national objectives; the need for a focused approach by the select committees to be able to project the interests of provinces and to enhance the impact of our work; the commitment to regular reporting by committees on a quarterly basis, and proper approach to planning by committees.

I have also noted the challenges raised in the report around the need for research support for committees - more especially to assist our oversight work - and the need for adequate time for committees to do their work.

I must commend our House Chairpersons for arranging this workshop. I am also pleased to note that, in its entirety, the report responds appropriately to our guiding document Programme 2009, which we revised earlier this year. In line with the commitments we made in the document, we are finalising a process of coming up with proper mechanisms for a follow- up on Programme 2009 and Taking Parliament to the People.

Our committees are central to our achieving the targets we have set ourselves for this term of Parliament. At this point, I would like to thank the chairpersons of our select committees for the sterling work they are doing. [Applause.] I cannot help but mention the important work done by the Select Committee on Finance, under the leadership of the hon Mr Tutu Ralane. [Applause.]

As we continue to be seized with the important task of building our Parliament, we need not forget our obligations to contribute to the renewal of our continent. Through our participation in the Pan-African Parliament, we are able to share important lessons on the development of democracy in the continent and challenges of ensuring that we promote good governance.

We also appreciate the opportunity to participate and shape discourse on the need for a common African heritage and identity. Members who follow discussions at the PAP would recall that to this end, at the 5th Ordinary Session of the PAP last month, we sponsored a resolution committing the Assembly …

… to work together, trusting and obeying ourselves as Africans, listening to our own voices and listening to the dictates of our people, to ensure the development and prosperity of our countries, individually and collectively for the betterment of the people of Africa.

You will recall that on 1 April 2006, our Parliament hosted the inaugural lecture by the President of the Republic of South Africa, the hon Mr Thabo Mbeki, entitled “Perspectives on and of Africa”. The lecture marked the launch of a public lecture series of the Parliamentary Millennium Project, a programme through which we aim to restore our dignity and to deepen democracy in the continent by promoting pride and ownership of our common African heritage and identity.

Beyond the Pan-African Parliament, we continue to participate in bilateral and multilateral fronts. We value this participation and regard it as very important for us to be able to create relationships with other parliaments. The process of entrenching democracy in the world is one we must pursue with vigour because it is critical in our fight for a peaceful world.

We participated in bodies such as the Inter-parliamentary Union, CPA Africa Region and CPA International, the Speakers Conference in New York, and had bilateral engagements with Algeria, the Czech Republic, China, Japan and recently Rwanda.

We are considering hosting a conference of the Inter-Parliamentary Union, an international parliamentary body with more than 130 national parliaments that are current members, in 2008. In two months time we expect the secretariat of the IPU to come to inspect the feasibility of hosting the conference, from the point of view of the availability of facilities. We are hosting the SADC-PF conference later this year, and we are also looking at the possibility of hosting, next year, the CPA Africa Region conference around July.

It is important to increase participation at bilateral level within the continent. During my recent visit to Rwanda I came face to face with the huge challenges facing Rwandans as a result of the 1994 genocide. The people of Rwanda want us to assist them. As part of our response, we are going to send a parliamentary delegation to join the people of Rwanda for this year’s Women’s Day activities. We expect this team to also have time to work on the ground with the Rwandans and assist them where they can, as part of our contribution to the betterment of the lives of our fellow Africans.

Hon members, before I conclude I would like to comment on the issue of the Independent Communications Authority of South Africa Amendment Bill, which was passed by this House late last year. Members would recall that in April 2006 the President referred the Bill back to the National Assembly, citing reservations regarding the constitutionality of certain clauses. The NA passed a revised Bill last week, after agreeing with the sentiments expressed by the President.

I need not remind hon members that the particular clauses which led to the Bill being referred back to the National Assembly were proposed by the NCOP. I also need not remind members that the NCOP has received a lot of criticism regarding those proposed amendments, from representatives of civil society and the media.

We have since looked at the matter as the NCOP Presiding Officers and agreed that the NCOP could not be seen to be watering down legislation - I want to make that very clear and emphasise that point - more especially to the extent that it compromises the integrity of Parliament. We have agreed that as an institution we must ensure that legislation that comes before this House is considered carefully and is not in conflict with the letter and spirit of our Constitution. We expect our committees to maintain vigilance on these matters.

I do not have reason to believe that as a House we are not paying much attention to the legislation we consider. When I look at some of the amendments we have made as this House to Bills emanating from the NA, including section 75 legislation, we have done a tremendous job in the past. A recent example is the role played by this House in the Children’s Bill and the value it added to the Bill. However, the criticism that resulted from our handling of the ICASA Amendment Bill threatens to dent this reputation. I don’t want you to do that in the future. Please keep up the good work.

Hon members, we have work to do, as Parliament, in order to realise our vision. Our people look up to us to deliver them from poverty and underdevelopment. Judging by the energy we display as we soldier on to turn our vision into reality, I have no reason to fear that we may fail them. Rather, I am convinced that we are equal to the task of building a Parliament of all the people, for the people, and by the people.

It is with this conviction that I now commend Parliament’s Vote with a total budget of R1 billion for this current year to this House. I hope you will support the Budget Vote.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Hon Chairperson and hon members of this House, our Constitution provides that democratic society should be representative and participatory. In a democracy a parliament is the voice of the people. It carries the mandate of the people. This mandate includes public participation in most, if not all, of our proceedings as public representatives.

Public participation has been defined as a process leading to a joint effort by stakeholders, representing all relevant interests and sectors of society. Technical specialists and the various relevant organs of state will work together to produce better decisions than if they had acted independently and better implementation of decisions through stakeholders owning this process.

Public participation is the key to ensuring that government understands the needs of the people and makes decisions that will meet those needs in the best possible way. Once the stakeholders are on board, the next step is the identification of problems and needs through consultation.

Through interactive dialogue, public participation should lead to consensus building and a convergence of thinking among stakeholders and, ultimately, shared solutions. This we do through our projects such as the people’s assembly and Taking Parliament to the People, which the Chairperson has already mentioned.

The Constitution says that all spheres of government, national, provincial and local, shall make it easy for people to participate in government. However, government alone cannot build a better life. As such the communities and all stakeholders have to be partners of government. So it is we, the voice of the people, who encourage people to participate in government programmes.

The Constitutions stresses the principles of accountability, transparency and openness. This has relevance for public participation in that it imposes a general obligation on government, particularly its elected representatives, and creates a climate that encourages and promotes interaction.

The sections in the Constitution governing the national and provincial legislatures provide explicitly for public access and involvement, thus, for example, the NCOP and the NA must facilitate public involvement in the legislative and other processes and in their communities and conduct their businesses in an open manner and hold their sittings and those of their committees in public. We can refer to section 59(1) and section 72(1) of the Constitution.

Certain provisions govern limitations to public access, where this is reasonable and justifiable in an open and democratic society. It is this provision that adds a participatory dimension to the South African legislative system and who is better equipped to facilitate this process than we as parliamentarians.

The fact that the NCOP must obtain mandates on some national legislation in itself opens up a significant opportunity for public participation. In our democracy, national legislation is being debated in the provinces, giving the public the opportunity to impact on national policies in the provincial legislatures and the NCOP is strategically placed as the mediator in this respect.

It has been noted that committees in the legislature are often the most important platform for public participation. Public hearings seek to obtain the views of civil society on draft legislation and policy. Members of the public must also be invited to make written or oral submission to a committee. Committees must be encouraged to use mechanisms and forums that will make it easier for public participation and communication, such as the use of information and communication technologies to open up the institution to those outside of it.

I am happy that we are looking at reintroducing NCOP Online to serve as a communication tool; while at Parliament we are still looking at coming up with an information management system. We need to build a better image of Parliament. How many people know the substance of what we are doing and if few, how do we expect them to participate?

Parliament is the communication link between the people and the government. People talk of happenings in Parliament and of the Members of Parliament as things quite remote and different from themselves. There is little consciousness of Parliament being their own and members being from among themselves. We are hopeful that the establishment of parliamentary democracy offices will come in handy here. I thank the Chairperson for reflecting on this.

It is ordinary people who have to be enabled to feel that they are participants in the decision-making and legislative processes and that through Parliament their voices can reach government and that their voices count. The future of democracy is contingent upon the effective operation of Parliament, the outstanding characteristics of which are: its commitment to freedom, its independence, its tolerance of all shades of opinion, the adoption of measures to secure social progress, a deep-seated respect for political freedom, a belief in the law, faith in education and respect for democratic institutions.

The rule of law as the foundation of our democratic society requires good quality legislation that is understandable and accessible. High quality legislation must have the following features: it must endure, must not need frequent amending, must give effect to the government’s policies and reduce fiscal risk to the government, must avoid the courts having to decide upon it regarding its meaning or constitutionality, must be compliance-friendly for users and must limit the scope for avoidance.

These are the features that must guide us when we do our work as legislators. On occasion parliamentarians have to speak the unpalatable truth or expose the weaknesses in a legislative scheme, no matter how that makes them unpopular with the policy makers. This is a necessary part of their job and they must stick to it.

As this House, we cannot afford to lower the bar when it comes to scrutiny of legislation. The sharp criticism we have received as a result of the handling of the Icasa Amendment Bill must be a lesson. To do all this, parliamentarians must always demand enough time in order to scrutinise Bills thoroughly. The old adage, do you want it right or do you want it right now, is meaningful here. Rushed legislation, particularly last minute policy chances, diminishes the changes of ending with workable, intelligible legislation.

As public representatives, Members of Parliament must make law-making processes more representative and democratic. Of more importance, however, is the final product that must be of high quality. High quality legislation is a team effort and always has been, so everyone involved in the process must take responsibility for it. On the part of legislatures, this responsibility is even higher.

As I said earlier, the first step is to build a better image of Parliament and this includes giving committees adequate resources and time. Committees are vital adjuncts to the work of Parliament and as such they should be encouraged to focus on resource estimates, departmental plans and output and performance analysis. Remember the role of committees is to ensure executive accountability to an informed parliament.

Committees provide an important space for intervention by minority parties and the public, so increasing opportunity for informed public debate on policy and legislation. Time is an essential element here as well. What the government loses in the short-term - speed of passage - will be offset by what it will gain – quality legislation in the long term. We must never be afraid to ensure that we have ample time to adequately do our oversight work. Although the NCOP has no formal oversight role, the Constitution grants it certain powers to summon people to give evidence or to produce documents, as well as to require any institution or person to report. That you will find in section 69 of the Constitution.

While the Constitution does not explicitly require the NCOP to perform an oversight function, various provisions leave no doubt that the NCOP must exercise oversight as defined by its constitutional mandate. This is further supported by section 92(2), which states that Cabinet is accountable to Parliament. Oversight and accountability are interlinked in a democracy, because the intended outcome of oversight is accountability.

The report of the strategic review workshop of our select committees held last month is instructive in terms of how the NCOP must perform its oversight function. President Mbeki also addressed this question when he said:

The NCOP occupies a unique position within our constitutional system of governance. This derives from the fact that it is the only institution within this system that straddles all three spheres of our co-operative governance construct, the national, provincial and local.

This places the NCOP in a strategic oversight position. It has the possibility and the mandate to keep constant eye on the processes that must integrate legislative and executive decisions in all spheres of government and ensure the practical implementation of these decisions, especially to the extent that they impact directly on the lives of people.

That was said on 4 November 2005 in Limpopo. Members have to understand that parliamentary oversight of the executive is not an end in itself. It is a means to an end, which is the implementation of the policies by the executive. Oversight is never intended to adversely affect administrative initiative, effectiveness and discretion. It is meant to galvanise, not supplant action. The purpose of accountability mechanisms is to strengthen efficient functioning of administration and not weaken it.

When we embark on oversight through the various committees, we must always remember that oversight is essential to the fulfilment of the values of accountability, responsiveness and openness enshrined in the Constitution. There is no doubt in my mind that the budget we present to this House will come in handy for us to execute our mandate. We are definitely on course towards building an effective parliament, a parliament of all the people, for the people and by the people.

Here I would like to thank all the hon members and the staff for their support. And last but not least, I want to thank the leadership of the presiding officers for their support and the whole of Parliament. I thank you. Ke a leboga. Enkosi. Baie dankie. Aluta continua! [Applause.]

Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Chairperson, may I also kick off by thanking the presiding officers of our institution for giving legs to this practice called oversight. You see, hon members, all along we have just been looking at this thing called oversight, which is practised by the committees. But when oversight is practised in this very House, whose members play an oversight role for other institutions, that exercise starts to have a firm foundation and feet on which to stand when it’s challenged.

On this particular date, 6 June 2006 … those who like abbreviations would write 06—06-06 [Laughter.] … indeed, I appreciate the opportunity to reflect on one of the most important tools for expressing an institution’s intents and purposes. To an ordinary person in the street, a legitimate budget of any institution tells, at a glance, the following about an institution: what kind of an institution it is; what its core activities are and what its focal point is; and where it wants to go in the future. These basic criteria would only hold true for a small NGO or some other companies and institutions, but surely not for the institution called Parliament, with its numerous responsibilities, diverse focus and complex programmes, all requiring precise co-ordination.

Indeed, the intricacies involved in running this institution called Parliament demand that a certain calibre of people be employed or deployed to manage the affairs of these two Houses. The criteria for selecting the correct incumbents should be stringent enough not to let undesirable elements go through. In the ANC, we talk of people whose characters would allow them to go through the eye of a needle.

In the Select Committee on Finance, we go a step further and talk about a cadre whose commitment to service would enable him or her to pinpoint a needle in a haystack. These are the people who are not driven by the clock or a watch as to when they start work or knock off. But, for them, a working day could even be 25 hours. They are driven by the true spirit of patriotism.

On the occasion of the opening of Parliament, way back in 1997, former President, Mr Mandela, had this to say, and I quote:

We must bring out the best in all of us and perform better everywhere to expand the economy and create jobs, to improve the quality of life for all our citizens, and to expand the frontiers of freedom.

My observation is that our programme of Taking Parliament to the People answers to the demand by the former President that we need to expand the frontiers of freedom.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Order! The House is in session, you don’t have to pass between the Chair and the speaker. You can proceed hon member.

Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Chairperson, our programme of Taking Parliament to the People responds sufficiently to the demand made by the former President concerning expanding the frontiers of freedom. But our counterparts in the National Assembly have a People’s Assembly which will be serving a similar purpose in another form.

My notion of a budget would be the fiscal expression of will to respond to the people’s needs. One of our exercises in examining this would be, at some time, to look critically at how our budget responds to the issues that were raised by the people in all our interaction when we were taking Parliament to the people. This is but one assessment of effectiveness concerning the application of those resources that are allocated to us.

Many of my points have been mentioned by the Chairperson and the Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP. But all I am saying, in conclusion, is that we still face a challenge regarding timeous and effective communication. Some of the things that were highlighted in your input here were news to some of us here. I know the demands of our institution but we do not, as members, want to find ourselves at any time to be forming a weak link in the chain of communication.

I conclude by quoting what former president Mandela said when he concluded his speech in 1997, “What do we make of our collective legacy?” This is a question that we will be answering as we take forward our budget of Parliament and as we give expression to it as a tool in answering to the needs to the people. I thank you. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon Minister, Deputy Minister and special delegates, your presence is acknowledged. We are still dealing with Vote 2 on Parliament. I’ll proceed to call upon hon J W le Roux.

Mr J W LE ROUX: Chairperson, my friend says that I mustn’t spoil it, but, unfortunately, I must tell the truth. Hon Chair, hon Minister, hon MECs and members, I think it is fit and proper for me to congratulate the Chairperson of the NCOP on the very positive and very important role that he plays in Parliament. We really do appreciate that.

Agb Voorsitter, ek is seker dat ons as parlementslede nie altyd besef hoe belangrik die rol van die Parlement is nie en ook nie hoe bevoorreg ons is om hier diens te doen nie. Duisende mense sien en lees daagliks wat hier plaasvind en ons skep in der waarheid die atmosfeer waarbinne die breë gemeenskap sake van die dag beoordeel. Daar is talle amptenare in die Parlement, sowel as parlementslede, wat ’n besondere bydrae lewer en hulle verdien ons dank en waardering.

Daar is ook inisiatiewe wat innoverend is en wat verseker dat die Parlement sy regmatige rol in Suid-Afrika speel. Een so ’n inisiatief is “Taking Parliament to the People” en hiermee bewys die NRVP dat ons ’n verantwoordelikheid teenoor die mense van die land het. Dit gee ook aan die lede die geleentheid om te sien presies wat gaan op grondvlak aan en wat word van die wette wat ons in die Parlement maak.

“Taking Parliament to the People” is ongelukkig ’n baie duur aksie en ek sal voorstel dat ons aandag hieraan moet gee. Die feit dat die Parlement en veral die komiteevergaderings oop is vir die publiek en die pers is ’n baie positiewe verandering en verbetering op die ou stelsel. In die periode voor 1994 was die komiteevergaderings agter geslote deur gehou en openbare deelname was eerder die uitsondering.

Die Parlement as instelling verskaf ook aan ons as lede die middele om ons werk deeglik te doen. As ons hierdie hulpmiddele vergelyk met wat ander parlemente hulle lede bied, kan ons sê dat die hulpmiddels ontoereikend is. As ons egter eerlik wil wees, moet ons erken dat daar genoeg bystand is om ons werk behoorlik te kan doen.

Wat egter teleurstellend is, is dat ’n paar enkelinge die beeld van die Parlement tot in sy fondamente skud. Die vraag is: wat sien en lees die publiek daar buite van ons as parlementslede en van die Parlement as ’n instelling? Vir drie jaar sloer die afhandeling van die reisskandaal nog steeds. Hoe op aarde kan die publiek ons as agbare lede beskou en hoe sien die publiek die instelling, as sulke sake onafgehandel bly? Die feit is dat ons nou ’n nuwe stelsel gebruik om vlugte te bespreek en dit is ’n bewys dat sommige parlementslede nie vertrou kan word nie. Daar was niks met die ou koeponstelsel verkeerd nie. Die fout was by ons as lede.

Wat die sekuriteit in die Parlement betref, is dit iets om te beleef. Daar is gesofistikeerde toegangsbeheer by elke moontlike ingangspunt. Kameras hou al ons bewegings dop. Daar is nuwe slotte aan die kantoordeure, maar nogtans verdwyn artikels van waarde steeds. Wat nog meer skokkend is, is dat die eiendom van die Parlement self verdwyn. Wat het van die silwer tafelgerei geword? En dan praat ek nie eens van die kunsskatte nie. Ek kry skaam as ek dink wat die publiek van ons dink wanneer hulle plastiekteelepels gebruik om hul koffie en tee mee te roer.

Wat die parlementêre woongebied Akasiapark betref, gaan dit nog slegter. Die heinings raak al hoër. Die huise het nuwe alarmstelsels en elke venster is toe met diefwering. Nogtans gaan die diefstal voort. Hierdie sake word wyd gerapporteer en die Parlement as instelling word ’n bespotting.

Laastens, nou moet die ANC mooi luister. Ek gaan die waarheid praat. Die onverdraagsaamheid van die regering teenoor kritiek is nadelig vir die demokrasie. Die ANC propageer reeds die belangrikheid van verskeidenheid, maar in die Parlement duld die ANC geen kritiek nie – hoe geloofwaardig dit ook al mag wees. Kritiek teenoor die regerende party word as onpatrioties en afbrekend aanvaar.

Robuuste debat … [Tussenwerpsels.] Nee, dis waar, kollegas … is natuurlik reg, maar venynigheid teenoor die opposisie is skadelik vir die demokrasie. Wanneer lede van die opposisie stilgemaak word net omdat hulle nie saamstem met die regeringsbeleid nie, is dit sleg vir die demokrasie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Ons is dit aan die land verskuldig dat ons in die Parlement meer volwasse en meer ordentlik teenoor mekaar moet optree. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Hon Chairperson, I am sure that we as parliamentarians do not always realise how important the role of Parliament is, nor how privileged we are to be working here. Thousands of people see and read daily what is happening here and in fact we create the atmosphere in which the broad community assesses current affairs. There are numerous officials in Parliament, as well as Members of Parliament, who make a special contribution and they deserve our gratitude and appreciation.

There are also initiatives that are innovative and that ensure that Parliament plays its rightful role in South Africa. One such initiative is “Taking Parliament to the People” and by means of this the NCOP proves that we have a responsibility to the people of the country. It also affords members the opportunity to see exactly what is happening at grass-roots level and what becomes of the laws that we make in Parliament.

“Taking Parliament to the People” is unfortunately a very expensive exercise and I want to suggest that we devote attention to this. The fact that Parliament and especially the committee meetings are open to the public and the press is a very positive change and improvement on the old system. During the period before 1994 the committee meetings were held behind closed doors and public participation was an exception.

Parliament as an institution also provides members with the means to do their work thoroughly. If we compare these resources with what other parliaments offer their members, we could say that the resources are inadequate. However, if we want to be honest, we have to admit that there is enough support for us to be able to do our work properly.

However, what is disappointing is that a few individuals are shaking the image of Parliament to its foundations. The question is: What does the public out there see and read about us as Members of Parliament and about Parliament as an institution? The travel scandal has still not been finalised after three years. How on earth can the public regard us as honourable members and how does the public view the institution, if such matters are not finalised? The fact is that we are now using a new system to book flights and that is proof that some Members of Parliament cannot be trusted. There was nothing wrong with the old coupon system. The problem lay with us as members.

As far as the security in Parliament is concerned, it has to be seen to be believed. There is sophisticated access control at every possible entrance. Cameras record all our movements. There are new locks on the office doors, but valuable articles nevertheless continue to disappear. What is even more shocking is that the property of Parliament itself is disappearing. What has become of the silver cutlery? And then I am not even talking about the art treasures. I am ashamed to think what the public thinks of us when they use plastic teaspoons to stir their coffee and tea.

As far as the parliamentary residential area Acacia Park is concerned, conditions are even worse. The fences are getting higher and higher. The houses have new alarm systems and every window has burglar bars. Nevertheless, theft continues. These matters are widely reported and Parliament as an institution becomes a mockery.

Lastly, and now the ANC must listen carefully, I am going to tell the truth. The intolerance of the government towards criticism is detrimental to democracy. The ANC is already propagating the importance of diversity, but in Parliament the ANC tolerates no criticism – however credible it may be. Criticism of the ruling party is regarded as unpatriotic and destructive.

Robust debate … [Interjections.] No, it is true, colleagues … … is, of course, acceptable, but vindictiveness toward the opposition is detrimental to democracy. When members of the opposition are told to keep quiet just because they do not agree with the government’s policy, it is bad for democracy. [Interjections.] We owe it to everyone in the country to be more adult in Parliament and to behave with more decency towards one another. I thank you.]

Nkk J N VILAKAZI: Mphathisihlalo ohloniphekileyo, mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe nomnyango wakho, amalungu ahloniphekileyo onke akule Ndlu. IPhalamende liyindawo ephakeme kakhulu eNingizimu Afrika jikelele. Linomsebenzi futhi omkhulu wokondla iminyango ehlukahlukene ngemali ebhekana nezidingo. Lapha ePhalamende kunemisebenzi enhlobonhlobo edinga imali ukuze lihlale phela lisesimweni esincomekayo.

Amalungu ePhalamende alindeleke ukuthi enze umsebenzi otusekayo emiphakathini ayimele ePhalamende, kodwa kukhona izinkinga ezikhona ezidinga ukunakisiswa uma kukhulunywa ngesabiwomali. Eyokuqala, amanye amahhovisi amalungu awekho neze esimweni esigculisayo. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister and your department, all hon members of this House, Parliament is the highest institution in the Republic of South Africa as a whole. It also has an important duty to financially provide for the various departments so that they are able to carry out their tasks. Here in Parliament there are different things that have to be done which need finance so that Parliament will always be admirable.

Members of Parliament are expected to produce outstanding work in the communities they represent here in Parliament, but there are some problems which need to be addressed regarding the budget. Firstly, the offices of some members are not conducive to work.]

We agree that Parliament has made great strides in its quest to provide members and staff with suitable offices and conference accommodation. But when it comes to individual members’ offices, it is shameful. Some of us have been waiting to be supplied with furniture from as long ago as 2004.

Siyacela impela kubahlonishwa abaphethe ukuthi basibhekele kulokhu – kuyiqiniso. Nalapho amalungu ePhalamende ehlala khona – usekhulumile okade ekhona lapha – kakhulukazi e-Acasia Park - isimo asigculisi neze neze. Siyadinga ukubhekelwa ngane zakwethu. Inkinga yesibili noma yesithathu imali yempesheni. Imali yempesheni etholwa amalungu uma ethatha umhlalaphansi esiyibiza ngokuthi imali kadekle ilihlazo, ayikho. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[We urge management to look into this matter, because it is true. Members who spoke before me have said it all. The places where Members of Parliament reside, particularly Acasia Park, are not in a good condition. We need to be taken care of, colleagues. The second problem pertains to the pension fund. The pension Members of Parliament receive when they retire is really a disgrace, because it is so meagre.]

On behalf of the IFP I want to request Parliament to seriously look into the issue of the members’ pension fund, which is completely inadequate after periods of honourable service.

Okokugcina, ngikhe nje phezulu ngoba phela ngeke ngiqede nami, ngiyazi kuningi esenikwenzile bakithi kodwa manje ngithatha phela lokhu ukuze kulunge izinto. Izinto zilunga ngokuba zilungiswe ngomlomo. Imali iyenyuka ezindaweni esidla kuzo, lokhu okuthiwa ama-restaurants kodwa hhayi ukudla kwakhona kumi ndawonye nje akunyakazi. [Uhleko.] Akuyi emuva akuyi phambili, asazi ukuthi kwenzekani. Hhayi bo, ake nisisizeni bahlonishwa abaphethe. Sengikukhawulile mina, nkosi yami, okuncane egameni leqembu lami i-IFP kodwa phezu kwakho konke lokho siyasemukela. Akulungiswe nje zingane zakwethu lokhu engikubalile. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Lastly, allow me to touch on this issue, because I won’t finish. I know you have done a lot, but let me bring to light these few concerns. Things are rectified when we have a discussion about them. Charges where we eat are escalating – I am talking about the restaurants - but the food remains the same. [Laughter.] It neither increases nor decreases. Management must assist us in this regard. Personally I no longer eat there. In spite of all this, the IFP supports the budget. These issues that I have raised have to be addressed. [Applause.]]

Mr T S RALANE: Chairperson, the hon member says that “Taking Parliament to the People” is expensive. Now, there’s a cost that we are also not calculating, and that is the cost of those who died for this liberation – it is a cost that up to now has never been regarded as a cost.

In fact, some people were called to the TRC and some had admitted to some of the things they did; some were not forthright and have not even been to the TRC - even as we speak today. And I think, therefore, the cost that we are talking about here, in fact, is misleading. This democracy ought to be expensive, precisely because we are taking it to the people that never had an opportunity to have Parliament taken to them for ages and, therefore, every cent that we spent is very much well spent. In fact, you ought not to be worried; there’s value for money in the money that we spend in taking Parliament to the people.

But, secondly, he says before 1994 meetings were held in closed sessions – closed sessions - yes that’s what he says. Why was that so? It was precisely because they had things to hide and precisely because they were planning all sorts of dirty things against our people.

The Chairperson talked about the problem of space in Parliament. Again, that lack of space is as a result of Parliament’s own planning. In their mind they never dreamed that we were going to occupy this Parliament. Unfortunately, we are now sitting with this legacy. If we were irresponsible, we would have come in here and demolished everything – that would have been very irresponsible, financially.

But precisely because we are very responsible leaders in this country, we have decided to keep this infrastructure, but also to try and refurbish this infrastructure. It is, therefore, as a result of planning by the same members. In fact, let’s also remind him that we are from a situation – and I’m sure he participated – called the tricameral situation. You know that. You also know that there were about nine to 10 legislatures, which were their creation. Now, here we are, we have merged these parliaments – all of them. We are transforming this very same Parliament to ensure that everybody is given an opportunity to participate in it. Of course, they are talking so much, precisely because we have in fact liberated them, unfortunately.

Now, the other thing he raises is that we don’t tolerate criticism. I mean it’s terrible. It is not an allegation but it’s misleading and it’s a lie by the way. They are here and participate effectively in committees first and foremost, but also in this House they debate as freely as they can.

In fact, I’ve seen almost every chairperson in this House containing and ruling against the members who are always led by me when I’m always leading the chant – “hoor, hoor”. So, clearly there is no way in which this members can say we don’t tolerate their engagement. In fact, this opposition is malicious and dangerous, unfortunately. [Laughter.] Very, very malicious. Again, it is true they are unpatriotic. [Interjections.] Lastly, let’s then urge members of this House to vote in favour of this Budget Vote. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Thank you very much, hon members, for participating in this debate. [Interjections.] [Laughter.] Let me say that this is the first time that I have listened to such a very high standard of debate on Parliament’s Vote. I don’t know what has happened to you today. There must be a new spirit here as everybody has participated effectively and has really raised the standard of the debate. I’m very impressed by that.

I would like to just respond to a few things. Everybody has been positive in his or her speeches. Regarding the issue of human resources in Parliament, hon Mkhaliphi, it is indeed a very important issue. That is one aspect of transformation that Parliament is still battling with, viz to make sure that we have the right people in the right place and doing the right thing all the time. We still have a shortage of human capacity. Every time we have to do work, we have to look for people to assist us. We are trying our best. I saw the Deputy Secretary sitting here. Is he still here? We are trying our best to get that sorted out.

There is one thing that I like - when you say that loving your job is a very important thing. I always ask myself: How many of us really love our work? How many of us are really committed to our work? I am asking myself that question. How loyal are we to the job that we are supposed to do? I am very happy that you raised that point. I think, as parliamentarians, we have a very difficult job. There is nothing like starting work at 6 o’clock and knocking off at 4 o’clock.

As a parliamentarian, you rest when you close your eyes. As soon as you open your eyes, your brain begins to work. I don’t know whether it happens to you. If you go to sleep at 11 o’clock and you happen to be awake at 1 o’clock, your mind begins to work. That is how it is with a parliamentarian. Your mind keeps on working all the time. I appreciate that and I hope that is a good message to all of us, particularly as elected representatives.

How will our budget respond to the issues raised by the people? That is a very important point because our people raise quite a number of issues on the ground. I will be briefing the chairpersons of committees on how we intend to make our budget respond to the needs of the people on the ground. You must remember: we don’t budget for the delivery of services on the ground; our work is to make sure that the executive delivers. That challenges us as Members of Parliament to participate in that Joint Budget Committee that Mr Mkhaliphi chairs.

It does not help you, Members of Parliament, to come and begin to raise your voice at this podium and say, “This money is not enough for the Department of Education.” It does not help you. The budget is done and is ready and we are voting on the Appropriation Bill. You should participate when we are compiling the budget, viz during that debate when the executive makes their inputs to the Treasury.

Thanks to your oversight function in the previous year, you know how much money each department should have. You should participate and say that this or that department needs more money in a particular area. You would have been doing the oversight function for the whole of the previous year. That is my worry – the entire Parliament is not getting involved enough in the compilation of the budget document. It is very important for us to do that. Another point that you have raised is the communication link and I think that is a very important point.

Mr Le Roux, we are in a very difficult position as presiding officers because we shouldn’t be biased. We should be nice. Can I respond to one or two things that you raised? It is not for the first time that people say that “Taking Parliament to the People” is expensive. I don’t know what it means when you say it is expensive. Who can calculate in terms of cents and rands and say that that is expensive? You just tell me.

Let me give you an example. Since this programme started, there is not a single member of the public who has raised a complaint about Taking Parliament to the People - not a single member of the public. The people I have heard complaining are one or two MPs, who asked why we go to the people and said we are wasting money. [Interjections.] That cannot be correct. Everybody who has participated in this programme, including the Minister of Public Works sitting here with us and the Deputy Minister, could tell you how much they enjoyed interacting with the people who elected them to come to Parliament. You have heard the voices of the people on the ground talking to us about poverty, health, housing, land, and issues of education. They were talking to their leadership directly and not talking to us through the website of Parliament or watching us on television. I do not understand why people should reject going to the people that elected them to Parliament and say, “It is very expensive. [Interjections.]

As long as I am here the NCOP will continue taking Parliament to the people. [Applause.] It is the people’s money that we spend in order to go to them. If one day they ask us not to come to them, then we will stop going to them. I am not sure who told you that democracy was going to be cheap. [Laughter.] Democracy is expensive and you have to pay for it. That is why we are paying taxes in order to get delivery of services going. You go to the people and make sure that those things do happen. We have to pay. We are not wasting money. It is value for money and people are happy about it.

Regarding the issue of Travelgate and when it should be finalised, Parliament has done its best and I wish it could have been finalised already. The matter is not in our hands. It is in the hands of the courts. I cannot go and tell the judge to finalise the matter; I would be interfering with the justice system. There is separation of powers in this country, that is Parliament, the executive and the judiciary. You are aware of that. All that we can do and hope for is that this matter will be concluded very soon. I am not prepared to go into the merits and demerits of the case. It is before the courts. I agree with you, Mr Le Roux, that there is a problem with security in Parliament. People are even stealing from the offices of members. It is not secure. They steal our laptops. We lost an expensive gold item and up to now we haven’t found it. I agree with you. We need to step up our security. We are trying our best and we have employed new security management. They are doing their best. We have approved our policy on security and I think that will plug a lot of loopholes. I also agree with you that there are problems with security in the parliamentary villages. Our villages are under the Minister of Public Works. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]

I am not going to talk too much about that. I don’t want to talk on behalf of the Minister. I think it is an issue that needs to be looked at. Parliament must discuss this matter. Don’t say that I said you have to do this. It is my view. I am not expressing the view of Parliament. Why should we not find another way of looking after the accommodation of the MPs? We are paying a lot of money to maintain those rotten villages out there. [Interjections.] Yes, particularly Acacia Park. It is a private village and we are paying a lot of money to maintain it. We might have to think of another way of accommodating members. I have something in mind but I don’t want to say it here. [Interjections.]

Hon Vilakazi, I take all your points. I don’t know why the Secretary has left because we were given a report just two weeks ago that all of your offices will be furnished. [Interjections.] That is the report we got from the staff and I will have to check on those things. We have been assured that all of you have been given new office furniture.

The hon Vilakazi is quite correct and I think we need to look into the pension of members. We need to look at the way in which it is structured. It is not a pension on which a Member of Parliament can live on retirement. Some of you are still young and are going to work for many years. Those of you who are old and who want to retire tomorrow will battle to live. I think we need to revisit the issue of the pension.

I will keep on debating this, particularly with my friend in the finance committee. You will help us, Tutu and you too, Sogoni. [Interjections.] Sogoni, I am talking to you and you are talking to another Member of Parliament. You people serve in the committee that deals with political office-bearers’ pensions. I want you to raise your voice very strongly, because that pension fund is not structured well. You will notice this when you are no longer an MP. You don’t notice it now because you are earning a salary.

Another issue that was raised was that the food in the restaurants is expensive is expensive but the quality of the food remains the same. I don’t know how to respond to that. Let us look into it. At times I have that feeling too, because I also eat in these restaurants. Deputy Chairperson, thank you very much for your contributions. You also contributed very well. Thanks to each and every one of you. Thanks for supporting Parliament’s Budget Vote. [Applause.]

                         APPROPRIATION BILL


                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 6 – Public Works:

INDVUNA YETEMISEBENTI YEMIPHAKATSI: Ngiyabonga, Lisekela laSihlalo, Lisekela leNdvuna yeTemisebenti yeMiphakatsi, balingani bami labaphetse ematiko etemisebenti yemiphakatsi kumaprovinsi lamanyenti, malunga lahlon aleNdlu nakubo bonkhe basebenti bakahulumende labakhona kulendzawo, ngitsandza kubonga nekubingelela kubabe, uMnu Fikile Bhengu, lotesibona kwekutsi ngabe sitsini nekutsi sikhuluma ngani lapha kuMkhandlu Wavelonkhe Wemaprovinsi; uhleti lapha etulu, utsite utanihlonipha ngekutsi anivakashele lamuhla nje. Ngibingelela bonkhe-ke labakhulu labakhona nalabasivakashele kuleNdlu lamuhla nje. (Translation of Siswati paragraph follows.)

[The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Thank you, Madam Deputy Chairperson. Deputy Minister of the Department of Public Works, fellow colleagues and heads of provincial departments, hon members of this House and civil servants, I would like to acknowledge the presence of Mr Fikile Bhengu who is seated in the gallery. It is a great honour to have you. I would also like to acknowledge all the leaders of the different sectors present here today.]

It gives me pleasure to deliver what, as members have said, is in fact my maiden speech in this House in my capacity as the Minister of Public Works. I must say that indeed, as I sat there, I understood in part what is also my responsibility, namely that the conditions of service of MPs, which include their accommodation, not just their housing but also their office space, are a matter and a cause for concern. I must say thank you to hon Mahlangu in his absence – oh, you are still here. I am still new and therefore you will pardon me and give me some grace time; even though not much. [Applause.]

It is an honour and a privilege for me to take the opportunity granted by this House to pay tribute to my late predecessor Princess Stella Sigcau. I am indeed privileged, because I know that I am standing on the shoulders of giants like her and other women of our country who laid concrete foundations for our liberation and helped this country to reach not only its political freedom but also economic liberation for all, including women, the youth and the disabled.

Mphathisihlalo, kubalulekile ukuthi ngiphinde ngibonge uzakwethu uMnu Radebe okunamhlanje unguNgqongqoshe wezokuThutha nokunguyena owasibekela umhlahlandlela wokuthi ngabe loMnyango wezemiSebenzi yoMphakathi ufanele ukwenzani. Sizokhumbula-ke ukuthi ngaphambilini lo mnyango wawumbaxa neminye ungazimelanga wodwa.

UKhongolose ekuthatheni izintambo zombuso wabona kufanele ukuthi njengohulumeni kumele siwumise lo mnyango ukuze ngawo sidale amathuba emisebenzi kubantu bakithi, ngaleyo ndlela silwe nendlala kanti kolunye uhlangothi sibe sakha ingqalasizinda lokhu okuthiwa phecelezi i- infrastructure. Mhlawumbe-ke singabuyela kancane nje ekuthini ngabe lomqulu womhlahlandlela walo mnyango esikuwo uthini. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, it is important that I express my appreciation to my colleague Mr Radebe who today is the Minister of Transport and who put in place a policy for the Department of Public Works and how it should function. We will recall that previously this department worked in collaboration with others and not independently.

When the African National Congress took the reins of power they saw that, as government, it was necessary to establish this department in order to create job opportunities for our people, to alleviate poverty and on the other hand to put infrastructure in place. Maybe we can go back a little to check the meaning of the policy document in our department.]

The White Paper on the Transformation of Public Works published in 1997 outlines the key areas of our focus and will in the main determine the trajectory we will take in the coming years. According to the White Paper, Public Works provides and manages accommodation for line function departments, including additional facilities of the Departments of Justice, Correctional Services, Defence and Safety and Security.

We also assist line function departments in the development of policy for infrastructure delivery, and lead the transformation of the construction industry in line with the National Public Works Programme’s principles. The White Paper further enjoins us that in carrying out our roles, our core functions are in the areas of property advisory services, property development, property management and the National Public Works Programme. These are further broken down to among others, project management, property investment and property and facilities management. In other words we are involved in the entire value chain of all these sectors and we intend to play that role more effectively going forward.

Clearly, as we undertake this task we will, time and again, evaluate how far we have moved through our many programmes to address our mandate as a department. As we assess our performance on the previous year’s budget, we are guided by these very objectives that I have outlined earlier. Budgets by their very nature are about choices that one makes in dealing with the many needs and wants that are there.

As a department we have over many years tried to manage the needs that have arisen as a result of the new dispensation such as managing our property portfolio on one hand, while at the same time ensuring that we lead the Expanded Public Works Programme. I know that as we have made these choices, we have not been able to meet the needs of our clients at every level. This was actually articulated in the earlier budget in this House. The management of our resources unfortunately has been a cause for concern for ourselves, members in this House, and these are matters we have had to address at the department.

It is therefore interesting that the past financial year marked a turning point in those efforts of the department towards prudent financial management and the creation of an organisation that is better able to deliver on its core mandate. In that period we were pleased that the department was awarded an unqualified report in recognition of the various interventions instituted in the past.

In 1999, we adopted Mintirho Ya Vula Vula, meaning Actions Speaks Louder than Words, as our programme of action as well as the basis for our turnaround strategy in which we committed ourselves publicly to clean administration, good corporate governance and the accelerated delivery of quality products and services in creating a better life for all. We are encouraged that the hard work started all those years ago is now beginning to pay off but the challenge is maintaining it going forward.

In seeking efficiency in the delivery of government services we have, in line with our Public Works White Paper, since April 2006, devolved our leasing, maintenance, property rates and municipal services budgets to our client departments. We will devolve the property rates to the provinces in due course for all the properties registered in the names of the provincial governments. Again, Chairperson, in line with the White Paper, it has been three years since we devolved the Capital Works Budgets to clients.

We are devolving budgets in order to increase transparency in the budgeting process, and to introduce incentives for the efficient use of resources, since we believe that as our clients know exactly the costs they have to incur with regard to accommodation as well as property rates and municipal services there will also be better management on their part. This step, it is believed, will ensure that government departments have a much stronger incentive to use office space, water and electricity more efficiently because for the first time these costs will be coming from their own budgets. Isn’t this good? It is good.

I think it is also important for us as the Department of Public Works to continue to render the functions associated with these budgets. We are devolving the funds, as we have said, but not the function. What does this mean? In my own view it is necessary for us as a department to reflect what obligations will arise for us with regard to this new relationship between ourselves and our clients. We will now truly be a landlord.

However, as we all know, if you are a tenant and have a landlord or landlady, you require that quality service must be rendered. So, if you pay the rent then the service must be good, otherwise you can’t talk of payment of rent and yet the delivery is appalling in terms of service. These are the issues that arise for us.

Firstly, the services we render must be efficient and effective; not to continue to be known as the “please wait” department but rather to be indeed a working department. It means the response time must take into consideration the needs of our clients. We cannot have a situation where this podium breaks in the NCOP and Public Works takes ten days to fix it, otherwise where will members stand when they speak.

Issues of oversight and supervision must also be taken into consideration. The in-house capabilities within our civil service to manage this new relationship that would have been occasioned by this new change, is something we would need to reflect on.

In my view, aftercare support, to ensure that our clients are satisfied, is also critical. Therefore it means we shouldn’t wait until there are complaints, but rather, we must be there to see whether there is satisfaction among the clients before they complain.

The question we therefore need to ask ourselves, in this regard, is whether or not we have a structure that is responsive to these new circumstances. As a result of the revenues we will receive from the client department through the accommodation charges, the Department of Public Works will spend approximately 50% more on maintenance over the next 5 years than we spent in the past financial year.

I must say that we anticipate growth in the maintenance budget in the coming years, because we also expect gradual increases in accommodation charges to meet market-related levels, but indeed the service must be good.

Continuing with our quest for effectiveness and efficiency, we achieved 100% expenditure on our allocated budget of R5,56 billion for the 2005-06 financial year. In fulfilment of our core function to provide accommodation for the state and its institutions, we spent R2,5 billion on capital construction works.

The issue that has been raised by members at various levels relates also to how we manage these assets, and particularly what the state is of our asset register. I want to say that the improvement of our asset register must be seen in the proper context. Firstly, as a state, we need to know what we own, its current state and what possibilities there are for using it for state domestic purposes. It is true, however, that not all state assets, particularly the immovable ones such as land and buildings, will address the immediate needs of the state. Therefore, this calls for reflection on how best the state can use such assets in a manner that addresses the socioeconomic challenges that we still face in our country.

This may mean a public-private partnership that can be developed in the management of such assets. If I may give an example, it might happen that we have a building and we don’t currently need it, nor does any other state department require. However, surely such a building may be required in five years’ time as government grows? Instead of selling it, it might be prudent to lease it for five years to a private sector person; manage it, lease it out, get revenue for it every year so that when the state needs that accommodation five years later, it doesn’t have to go out and acquire a new building.

Through that partnership, we would have made sure that the state building is properly maintained. We get the revenue going forward and we can actually utilise that asset without going to the property market.

I would also like to say that some of these assets might actually need to be disposed of as stated in our State Land Disposal Act of 1961. This legislation makes it possible for government to dispose of assets, through donation, outright sale and long-term lease. It must also be noted that this legislation must be taken in conjuction with the Public Finance Management Act regarding the disposal of state assets.

If I was to look at the disposal of state assets, to use an example, one of those things that need to guide us, in my view, is that we need to ask to what extent a property can be used by the state for its needs currently or in the future. So, before we engage in any disposal, this is the question, in my view, that we need to ask.

Secondly, we also need to ask ourselves whether the best way of managing that asset is to lease it to a tenant with clear guidelines on the need for the maintenance of such an asset so that it is kept in good condition.

Thirdly, one of the things we may need to ask ourselves is: If we sell this asset, how can we sell it in such a way that it contributes towards addressing our socioeconomic imbalances, particularly the issues of equity and broad-based black economic empowerment? In disposing of some of these assets, we will have to ensure that every property has been subjected to thorough analysis and therefore is disposed of only on a case-by-case basis. Our disposal policy, in my view, also needs to take cognisance of the stipulations in our 1997 White Paper, which mandates Public Works to actively manage the state property portfolio. It does not say at any given point we must dispose of assets but, in terms of responsible management, we also need to say that where disposal is necessary, how do we do it in the best interests of the state and its citizens.

It is also my belief that we need to retain our potential to play an active role in the market to the extent that we keep some strategic properties, which we may require for this purpose. So, in looking at the overall issues of property management as well as the disposal of state assets, my view is that this is what we need to use as our guide in terms of managing our assets and disposing of them.

But, also, I want to say, as part of our budget last year, by working with the SA National Defence Force, we have been able to run a 2004 Youth Foundation and Skills Development Programme. We currently have 72 learners aged between 13 and 16 years from the Eastern Cape, Limpopo, Mpumalanga, the Free State, the Northern Cape and the Western Cape participating in that programme.

Our 2005-06 programme had a budget of R1,4 billion. The 2014 Youth Foundation, which is one of the programmes the department has, aims to attract young people into the construction industry by holding holiday camps where learners are exposed to the built environment and, through a co- ordinated programme, professionals will talk to them; they will have site visits and also design some of these projects. The intention of this programme is to ensure that we can have the long-term view of building our human resource capacity that is required in the construction industry.

If I could come back to one of the mandates of this department as articulated in the White Paper of 1997, it also dealt with Public Works playing a role in job creation, exposing people to the world of work and being able to create opportunities for long-term employment.

One of the flagships for doing so, as we agreed then and continued to do in the 2004 policy statement by the President as well as in the local government manifesto of the ruling party in 2006, and one of the ways in which we can create jobs in our society is through the Expanded Public Works Programme which is actually a labour-based initiative. It is therefore important to ensure that, time and again, we look back at how far we have gone in ensuring that, as this department, we lead all other departments of state and parastatals, even the private sector, to actually gravitate towards using more Expanded Public Works Programme initiatives in the delivery of infrastructure.

The Expanded Public Works Programme has surpassed, in my view, its employment-creation targets across four sectors, with more than 301 000 work opportunities created to date. On average, 52% of the beneficiaries were female and 38% were youth. KwaZulu-Natal had the highest number of job opportunities created, with 66 317 beneficiaries, of which 33% were youth and 0,3% were disabled. This province also had the highest number of female beneficiaries in the whole country at 62% as well as the highest wage payout of R126 million. [Applause.]

In line with the 30th anniversary of 16 June this year, that we will all celebrate, it is important for me to note that through this programme, a number of young people have benefited. One could take examples from other provinces. In Mpumalanga, for instance, the number of young people that have been employed through the Expanded Public Works Programme is 51%; in the Free State, it is 48%; in Gauteng, it is 46%; in North West, it is 44%; while in the Western Cape it is 40%.

I think what is important is that when we look back on the Expanded Public Works Programme, we should remember what our vision was when creating this flagship programme. On one hand, it was ensuring that as a state we could actually intervene in the labour market effectively. It was also to ensure that, as a state, we could intervene in the driving of infrastructure development using labour-based methods and be able to convert more work into employment.

There are also linked benefits. During the same period, the very people who have entered the Expanded Public Works Programme have the capacity to be trained, even in literacy and numeracy, but also in portable skills, so that when they exit the programme, they will be able to create their own employment, and be able to generate employment opportunities for others in society.

Therefore, as we reflect on the road we have travelled and the road that lies ahead of us, we need to ensure that the Department of Public Works, both nationally and provincially, takes the lead in infrastructure development in such a way that it can guide many departments that have to develop infrastructure to use the Expanded Public Works Programme method so that, through that, we can fight poverty and unemployment in our society. I thank you. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hlalani phansi mani, nanyakaza nje kwenzenjani? [Will you sit down. Why are you restless?]

Minister, thank you very much for your maiden speech in your new department. May I just take this opportunity to congratulate you, on behalf of the Council, on being deployed to your new department of Public Works. With all the work that is there, I imagine that with your deputy you will continue doing the good job that you used to do when you were Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs.

I know that you are one person in that department who has been very interested to work with the NCOP. I hope that spirit will continue now that you are Minister of Public Works. We will still take you to the field to work together with us. On behalf of the Council, I wish to thank you. [Applause.]

I now call the hon Tau, the Chairperson of the Select Committee on Public Services.

Mr R J TAU: Hon Chair, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, MECs, provincial special delegates and comrades, may I also take this opportunity to welcome our brand new Minister to a brand new portfolio, that is Public Works. We note the challenges the Minister will inherit in taking over from where the late Minister Stella Sigcau left off. May her soul rest in peace. We therefore hope, hon Minister, that you will not experience baptism of fire, but rather that you fit right just fit in. You are guaranteed, of course, the support of the committee, to ensure that you do well in your new portfolio.

One other thing that I must bring to your attention, Minister, is that you have not escaped the Reverend, because he serves in the same committee that oversees Public Works. [Laughter.] So you might be faced with another Public Works-aquaculture kind of debate. [Laughter.]

Consistent with our strategic objective of the national democratic revolution, as the ANC we will continue to build a South Africa in which men and women, the youth, Africans in particular, and blacks in general, continue to stand to benefit from the programmes that government has put in place in order to remove the “Berlin Wall” that exists between the first and the second economies.

It therefore becomes important for this House to note the fact that this debate, critical as it is, is one kind of debate that seeks to address the issues that the country in the main is grappling with. Such issues relate to unemployment, lack of skills, infrastructure development and, in the main, black economic empowerment, particularly in the construction sector. This assertion therefore must be put in context because if we do not, it will sound as if it is something that just comes out of the air.

It is my belief that as members of this House, irrespective of political affiliation, we all acknowledge and agree that it is the ANC that went, since 1994, on a door-to-door campaign explaining what as government we were going to do to fight poverty and unemployment.

We said to our people, through our manifesto, that we would “create one million job opportunities through the Expanded Public Works Programme”. This was an expression of what the ANC saw as the country’s problem through its many forums, such as its conferences and general councils, in which as a movement it analysed in order to give responses to the problems of our people.

It was for this reason that our President, during his first state of the nation address to this third Parliament, said:

We will ensure that we launch the Expanded Public Works Programme in all provinces by the beginning of September 2004, concentrating on the 21 urban and rural nodes already identified in terms of our Urban Renewal and Integrated Sustainable Rural Development Programmes.

As we have said before, the EPWP integrates, amongst other things, the objectives of development of the social and economic infrastructure, human resource development, enterprise development and poverty alleviation.

As a result of the above, the department had to launch the Expanded Public Works Programme in all provinces. Firm as the ANC is in our belief and commitment to better the lives of our people, today we stand with pride as we engage in this debate – as opposed to previous years in which we were still planning to launch the programme.

Today, while engaged in this debate, we know that women, young people and generally employable South Africans, are hard at work and we can pride ourselves on projects such as the Modimola integrated project in North West; Zibambele in KwaZulu-Natal; Zivuseni the Gauteng … [Interjections.] Nevertheless, learning is a process. [Laughter.] It is a daily thing. And there is the Gundo Lasho project in Limpopo.

As we engage in this debate, we are sure today of happy South Africans, of South African people who, through our commitment to improving their social standing in Galeshewe, Delportshoop, Mataleng in the Northern Cape and George in the Western Cape, are earning something to feed their children, wash their bodies and pay for their services.

Hon Minister, during our programme “Taking Parliament to the People” in the provinces and during our constituency period, these people requested to say, particularly to the President and the Ministry of the department, “thank you very much”. They said you and the President should be thanked, not because you did them a favour, not because you have mercy for them, not because you took pity on them, but because, together with the President and the department, you have been able to restore their dignity and give them a second chance in life.

It is important to note that we are not only talking about people who are proud and happy to wake up and go to work. We are also talking about people who today, after being banned to the periphery of the economy for the better part of their lives, can produce bricks and lay them, build roads and maintain them.

These are people who today, in the space of a year or so, can construct and maintain very beautiful roads and even bridges that are quite complicated, such as the young woman’s company in Cofimvaba in the Eastern Cape, and Zibambele in KwaZulu-Natal.

On our recent visit to the Northern Cape we were taken to a project in Mothibistad. This was a project in which young people were taught how to maintain state buildings. Over and above such projects, these young people, like the Minister said, are also taught life skills, management skills and so forth. In this regard I must report to the House that the Chairperson and I were able to produce 160 bricks at that project. [Applause.]

However, what we picked up as something that came out, as a challenge in this particular project, was the capacity of the project to sustain these young people, particularly when it came to the exiting point, because whilst they are on the project, they are skilled and developed. But there is no end point at which we can say, “Beyond this point, you are on your own and this is the support mechanism that we are going to put you through over a period of two or three years” and then they are on their own. I nearly said something before “you are on your own”.

I received a note as I was about to take the podium. While the Minister has raised the issue of the budget around the maintenance of parks, members sent me a note that there is no way that I cannot raise this matter. This is because it is very important that as Members of Parliament we do not come to work tired. We cannot go home tired. We cannot come to work itching. We cannot go and sit in meetings “besig om jou to krap” [scratching ourselves] because bed bugs have been feeding off us the night before. [Laughter.]

These are the kind of things that members say are quite important to raise and to ensure that they receive the attention of the department. Hon Chairperson, I thank you very much. [Applause.]

Ms B N DLULANE: Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, hon MECs present, special delegates, first, I must congratulate you, hon Minister, squeeza [my sister-in-law] … [Interjections.] Yes, yes.

Asiyomfihlo. Sizekile, salobola phaya. [This is not a secret. I am her sister-in-law. My family paid lobola to her family.]

I wanted to say to you, hon Minister: today we are taking from uMastandi. UMastandi was an honourable old member of the movement. She passed away …

… kodwa umzila wawushiya. Sikuthembile ukuba uza kulandela ekhondweni. Ibiqinile laa nkosazana. Ibiyazi into ebiyenza kodwa siyazi ukuba usuka apha emhlabeni. Silivile igalelo lakho. Siyakuthembisa, siyile komiti ukuba uza kufika sikho njengoko ebesele etshilo uqabane ongusihlalo wekomiti. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[… but she has left a mark. We hope you will follow in her footsteps. She was a strong woman. She knew her work and we witnessed that while she was with us. We noticed her contributions. This committee promises that it will work hard, as the chairperson of the committee said yesterday.]

I also believe it is true that the government can only be seen to be working if Public Works deliver. Further, it is my sincere belief that through Public Works we can, as government, contribute tremendously to bridging the gap between the two economies through job creation and poverty alleviation and the fast-tracking of service delivery to our people.

We are conscious of the fact that we need to be supportive of the Minister and the department and understand their environment, while, at the same time, maintaining sufficient distance so that we are able to exercise objectivity in our oversight and present the perspectives and expectations of the people who have elected us as the constituency we represent.

Hence, we are encouraged by the Zimisele turnaround strategy, which the department has introduced. It says to us that the department has taken seriously the challenges within its service delivery model and what its clients have to say.

Sihlalo, singala malungu ale Ndlu sithi xa sithetha nezi kontraka zincinci kumaphondo ngamaphondo esihambela kuwo nala siphuma kuwo ngokubhekisele kumsebenzi wethu wokubeka esweni umsebenzi wabaphathiswa, sifumanise ukuba iikontraka ezincinci zinengxaki yesakhono neyokuswela imali yokuqalisa umsebenzi ezithe zawufumana. Ezi kontraka zinkulu zona zibona ithuba lokuba zixhamle kwilungelo ebelifanele ukuba lixhanyulwe ngabantu bakuthi kwiinzame zokuguqula isimo sokusebenza kwazo kolu shishino.

Sikhe saphuma sithatha iPalamente siyisa ebantwini, tata uLe Roux. Usihlalo wekomiti usandula kutsho ukuba eziya zigidi zerandi ezingamakhulu asibhozo anesihlanu asincedisa kuloo nto, safumanisa okokuba apha kufutshane nathi eGeorge, zikho ezi kontraka zincinci kodwa zenza le franti ndigqiba kuthetha ngayo ofumanisa kuyo ukuba ekugqibeleni bafumana nje amandongomane. Usihlalo wale komiti, uTau, useza kusisa kwakhona eGeorge siye kuqwalasela laa nto sayifumanisa ingentle phaya. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, as the members of this House, we spoke to the small contractors in the different provinces that we visited and in the provinces we come from with regard to our business of oversight. We recognised that the small contractors lack the skills and financial assistance to initiate projects. The well-developed contractors tend to take advantage of the small contractors in this regard by taking over, though this development programme is meant to change business opportunities in this area.

We took Parliament to the people, hon Le Roux. The chairperson of the committee said initially that the R8,5 million was allocated to help in this regard. We found out that near George there are emerging contractors, but they are practising what is called “fronting”. I have just spoken about this state of affairs, that the emerging contractors finally get peanuts. The chairperson of this committee, hon Tau, is planning another visit with us to George to have a look at this matter.]

We have also discovered that some of the financial institutions, such as Absa, will say to you, as the department, that they are assisting these emerging contractors. But when we get to the people on the ground, as the committee, we find that they are not doing what they told our department they would be doing. We found in Knysna that the only institution that was assisting them was Standard Bank, instead of the institution that claimed it was assisting these emerging contractors.

Kuyabonakala ukuba kuninzi ekufanele kwenziwe lisebe ukwenza ukuba oonokontraka bayibone ingxaki yoonokontraka abamileyo, abasithela ngabasakhasayo, abangayiboniyo bona ingxaki. Singulo rhulumente sikwiphulo lokunciphisa indlala kuluntu lwethu kwaye sinemigomo esizimisele yona yokuba makube sele sithe, “Huntshu!” ngoku yaye siya kumisa phi ngethuba elithile. Ndizama ukuthi kufuneka sibe nemimiselo. Ukuba ke ngoko siyeke izenzo ezifana nezi zithi gqolo ukuba ngoodlezinye kuluntu lwethu loshishino olusakhasayo, sakuba asiyazi into esiyenzayo. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[There is a lot at stake here; the department needs to make emerging contractors aware of the unanticipated problems presented by the established contractors that are taking advantage. This government is prepared to eliminate poverty in our communities and has objectives that will be reached at a certain point. I want us to have targets. If we allow this bad situation to continue in this developing business, we will miss our objectives.]

When we do this oversight - taking Parliament to the people and listening to the people - we experience these problems of fronters. So, if we cannot do our oversight to try to stop …

… aba hlohlezabo. Kwanele ngoku, kudala bahlohla izisu zabo. [… these fat cats. This is enough; they have long been stuffing themselves for a long time.]

As alluded to previously, when this government took over in 1994, it recognised the strategic position of the Department of Public Works as a catalyst in pushing back the frontiers of poverty and unemployment in our society, and its vision was to promote broad-based economic empowerment in the construction industry. It was doing this with the intention of bridging that gap between the two economies that continue to separate our society.

During the apartheid era the construction industry was white and male- dominated and this led to the marginalisation of black contractors, let alone the participation of our women, youth and the disabled in this sector.

We welcome the involvement of the Department of Public Works in the technical committee of the 2010 Soccer World Cup, except for what my chairperson was just saying. We have been asking your department how we are going to do these things, especially in the Western Cape with the transport congestion and the problems with your stadiums. How are you going to intervene? We didn’t get a correct answer to the question of whether you are able to monitor and look at the problem of stadiums. However, yesterday the Minister of Sport and Recreation responded to that. So, these three departments must talk to each other.

We welcome involvement in the 2010 Soccer World Cup. The 2010 Soccer World Cup will create massive infrastructure development in which contractors will play a pivotal role. We see this exercise as a tool that is going to contribute to service delivery to our people. But I must not forget to mention that we must be informed, as public representatives, in that we must take whatever programmes and plans we have to the people and ascertain whatever needs our people have. We must go to these people and give them the information.

We, however, urge the department to develop clear guidelines in ensuring that emerging contractors are, indeed, able to compete with established contractors. One of the key challenges would be the imparting of skills so that they are able to deliver qualitatively and use labour-intensive methods.

Unfortunately, when we took Parliament to North West, the MEC was not there. Other provinces could copy what hon Yawa was doing with the co- operatives project. It was marvellous. I don’t want to repeat what the Chairperson of the House, and the chairperson of the committee and the committee at large have said. We appreciate our leaders and we have seen them doing the dirty work of making bricks. Some people may think that making bricks is dirty work.

In conclusion, the work that the department is doing around taking the Expanded Public Works Programme to the masses in support of the objectives of Asgisa is appreciated. The select committee welcomes the Asgisa interventions in paving the way for the participation of women in construction. The government is convinced that to achieve Asgisa’s goal of halving unemployment and poverty by 2014, it will have to work more closely with women. This is an unambiguous position of the government in recognising the role women can play in the economy of this country.

We also hail the intervention of the Deputy President, Phumzile Mlambo- Ngcuka, in the current women’s development programme being handled by this department, which is the 100 or more women who are to be sent to Dubai. We are convinced that when you give sources of income to women, you feed the nation.

We are also encouraged by the budget increase for the maintenance of Public Works. But the budget is not conducive … [Interjections.] … next time we must be involved. We cannot just fold our arms … [Time expired.]

Malibongwe igama lamakhosikazi! [Let the name of women be praised!] [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I’m hearing very different names being used now in the House. That’s why I didn’t rule the hon Dlulane out, because I’m not sure about this myself. We’ll have to check. Yesterday I had one member calling another member “mshana” [nephew/niece]. [Laughter.] Now, today, I hear the hon Dlulane calling the Minister “squeeza”. [Laughter.] Another day I’m going to hear somebody calling another member “mamazala” [mother-in- law] and such things. [Laughter.] We will have to investigate that.

You see there is the parliamentary way – the way we use with “hon member”. But, if people want to change, let’s use different names – we are not restricted to “hon member”. We’ll have to investigate that and make it parliamentary, so that if I call you these names they are acceptable to everybody.

An HON MEMBER: Nosbali! [brother-in-law!]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Nosbali, yebo, nosbali [brother-in-law, yes] – and all those things.

Mr L H FIELDING: Hon Chair, hon Minister, hon colleagues, I must apologise that this speech is not mine. It is that of my colleague Greg Cameron. I don’t serve in that committee, so I am just helping him out.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Are you reading it on his behalf?

Mr L H FIELDING: Yes, that is right. Many of our impoverished comrades took heart and found new hope that they might actually see “a better life for all” materialise in their lifetime when government introduced the Department of Public Works’s flagship, the Expanded Public Works Programme. Yet, this R20 million initiative seems still to be failing to make sufficient of a dent in the unemployment in our country to make us confident that it will deliver on this promise of 1 million temporary job opportunities by the time this programme is concluded in 2009.

We know that in order for South Africa to achieve the goals set by the ANC government to halve unemployment by 2014, we will have to see an average of 600 000 jobs created per annum. Yet, in the last financial year, we have managed to grow our job market by only 300 000 new positions.

The Minister might protest and say that the EPWP is on track as far as its job creation efforts are concerned, or not, but it does leave us deeply concerned when respected economists, such as Anna McCord, stand up and tell us that many of government’s claims about the success of the EPWP are exaggerated.

Now, as a member of the political party that actually has some experience of governance, I know that a media opportunity created by a government programme success story is never left unexploited. Yet, it has been some time since any information has surfaced in the media with regard to the progress of the EPWP. In fact, unless you …

Mr C MARTIN (Eastern Cape): Chairperson, is the member prepared to take a question?

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: They are asking whether you can take a question.

Mr L H FIELDING: No, I explained it.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: No, it is not a problem. Continue, hon member.

Mr L H FIELDING: In fact, unless you count the second quarter of the previous financial year as recent, the latest quarterly progress reports seem to be mysteriously absent from the EPWP website. Or are we to believe that timeous release of these reports is also subject to government’s slow turnaround times so eloquently glossed over by the Deputy President, whom you saw on the SABC news last night?

This programme is becoming all things to all people. Or is it focusing on core areas offering maximum impact, labour intensive infrastructure provisions and increased social sector employment? Have any significant new schemes been initiated under the EPWP, or is it still largely existing projects that have been renamed and repackaged as part of a broader public relations exercise?

Skills development is one of the EPWP’s biggest failures. Only 3% of the work opportunities delivered by the EPWP are providing learnerships. In the infrastructure category, this falls to just over a third of a per cent, or 3 000 out of 900 000.

Does the EPWP programme actually work? This question is not merely rhetorical. This question has inspired the DA campaign that will be launched in the coming months to provide the solutions that the Department of Public Works seem incapable of devising and implementing.

Minister, the DA wishes you well in your new portfolio and you can be assured of our support for every sincere effort you make to deliver to the people. Thank you.

Mr C MARTIN (Eastern Cape): Chair, I think it will be only proper if I respond to the previous speaker. A person could sense negativity in his, “it is failing, it is a failure with this work and that work”. One question that was asked: Does the EPWP work?

I think, coming from a very poor province, the Eastern Cape, one would rather say: Let’s go to the people on the ground. After the EPWP has been implemented we should ask if they can really now have a plate of food on their table or can really proudly walk the streets today. Is it better today than it was before in the history of our country? I just also want to mention that Dale Carnegie once said: “Any fool can criticise, condemn and complain, and most fools do.”

Hon Chairperson, hon Ministers, colleagues from the provinces, members of the House and hon guests, allow me to extend a warm welcome to our newly appointed Minister of Public Works. It is indeed a privilege and an honour to have a person with the calibre of Thoko Didiza as our Minister. I wish her well for the future.

Chairperson, in supporting Vote 6 today, allow me to premise our perspective as the province of the Eastern Cape and use the wise words of our President when he said and I quote, “ We assert that our country, as a united nation, has never in its entire history enjoyed such a confluence of encouraging possibilities.” Indeed, these wise words from our President find complete character in our daily endeavours and in his, by word and deed, to join a nation that is at work to build a better life for all.

In the face of circumstances and enormous challenges, we also want to assure the nation, that we in the Eastern Cape and in the country as a whole and the Department of Public Works in particular are still on course and that we are set to realise the “Age of Hope”.

In defining our contribution to strengthen the people’s contract to create a better life for all, I will now brief the House on the current status of the Department of Public Works in the Eastern Cape. In acknowledging the responsibilities that came with the implementation of the Expanded Public Works Programme we undertook to facilitate the provision of institutional support too, as well as leading it.

The hon Minister said co-ordination is out and so I just put a line through it. In this regard we had strengthened the institutional capacity in our department by the filling of critical vacancies in the EPWP unit. We are currently focusing on the establishment of the regional EPWP units within the Eastern Cape.

Our department, through the establishment of the regional EPWP units, endeavours to influence the MIG, Municipal Infrastructure Grant, by aligning it to the EPWP guidelines. There is currently collaboration between Public Works and Salga in the province regarding this matter. The EPWP provincial and regional steering committees are in place and municipalities are represented at this level. This has led to a sound co- ordination of the programme. Co-ordination is working very well at cluster level among the various departments. This endeavour has without doubt, fast- tracked the implementation of the EPWP programme.

In addition, we have already established 275 learnerships within the infrastructure sector, including in our municipalities. These learners are currently on site and in class. A total of 7 880 job opportunities have been created in the infrastructure, social and environmental sectors to date.

Access to finance still remains a fundamental challenge to the emerging contractor sector. The department has managed to conclude a draft memorandum of understanding with the MIG Bank. The department has conducted a short study on the needs of the emerging contractor sector. The study indicated a need for training in business management and finance.

A total of 120 emerging contractors in our six regions recently completed training in line with our capacitating programme. A second phase of training will commence later this month and will culminate in a contractors’ consultative conference in August this year.

The process of disposal of redundant property has been commenced within the current framework approved by the Eastern Cape Executive Council. This is the first tranche of the disposal process.

The asset register for public works assets has been completed and we are now updating the provincial asset register, together with Education, Health and other provincial facilities. Properties are continuously being vested in the name of the province of the Eastern Cape.

The first batch of 44 properties has been approved by the Provincial State Land Disposal Committee for disposal at market-related value through open tender. The identified properties are vacant tracts of land in Middledrift, Alice, Seymour, Peddie and King William’s Town. It is envisaged that this will contribute R9 million to the provincial coffers in this first batch of disposals.

The department has introduced a standard lease agreement with tenants and 36% of leases have been signed thus far. We have exceeded our target for revenue collection and it currently stands at R9,8 million, as against a budget of R7,9 million in the 2005-06 budget.

The department still has a critical skilled staff shortage of 80 vacant posts. Our bursary scheme has provided us with six new professionals and 63 are currently at various institutions of higher education.

We have forwarded an ambitious skills development plan between ourselves and the Asgisa representatives for consideration. We envisage assessing 2 858 artisans through the recognition of prior learning method, 215 internships for unemployed black technical graduates who need in-service training, 1 187 learnerships for bricklayers, plumbers, carpenters etc, and 30 mentors in the 2006-07 financial year, and we are engaging FET colleges and institutions of higher learning in our skills development process. The department has set aside a budget to initiate the scheme as part of our overall skills development plan. Hon chairperson, we envisage that this plan will assist the department over the following years with its skills shortage.

By way of concluding, let me take this opportunity to reassure the people of the Eastern Cape and the country that we in the Eastern Cape have seen the challenge, and we are going to be equal to this challenge. Contrary to what the detractors of democracy are insinuating, we will do so with passion and commitment and I reiterate, we will succeed. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mnu H D YAWA (Mntla-Ntshona): Sihlalo weNdlu yamaPhondo, mfo kaMahlangu, Mphathiswa weSebe leMisebenzi kaRhulumente, Nkosikazi Didiza, nawe Sekela- Mphathiswa, mfo kaKganyago nosihlalo wekomiti yethu, namalungu onke alapha, kunye nabo ndisebenza nabo, okokuqala, mandicele uxolo ngokuba ndinqumle iNdlu yakho ngokungathi ndihamba kwisitrato zaseHeshele. Ndicela uxolo. [Kwahlekwa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[Mr H D YAWA (North-West): Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, Mr Mahlangu, Minister of Public Works, Mrs Thoko Didiza, Deputy Minister Kganyago, the chairperson of our committee and hon members and colleagues present here today, firstly, may I apologise for entering the House disrespectfully, as though I was walking the streets of Herschel. I sincerely apologise for that mistake. [Applause.]] Hon Chairperson, when we committed ourselves to announce business as usual in the Assembly of the province last year, very few believed in our ability to change the public perceptions about the North West department of public works. Our achievements thus far have confirmed that we do take our mandate to provide sustainable public infrastructure seriously.

Today many would agree with me when I say that, while yesterday doubt characterised our relationship with client departments, today confidence defines our relationship. Our resolve to announce business as usual and practical steps we have taken to improve service delivery have earned the confidence of our clients, to provide integrated sustainable public infrastructure.

We received a silver award for the second best performing department in the province for 2005-06 in the Premier’s Service Excellence Awards. The department also received a bronze award for the prestigious professional management review for being nominated the second most proactive provincial government department in North West.

Our pursuit of service excellence was also recognised by the board of the council for Health Service Accreditation of Southern Africa. After an extensive countrywide assessment of hospital maintenance, the board awarded our maintenance team in the Klerksdorp/Tshepong Hospital complexes full accreditation for excellent maintenance service, for the period 2005-08. This is the second award for our maintenance team for these two hospitals, as the first one was for the period 1998-2000.

We are excited about the recognition of the role of the Department of Public Works in sustaining excellence in the maintenance of public infrastructure. The accolades we have received in the previous financial year attest to our assertion that employees at all levels of the department have embraced a new culture of service excellence. This culture defines them as agents of change.

The department, through the sale of redundant state houses, has managed to raise revenue of R8,544 million. We also awarded contracts to the value of R460,736 million to historically disadvantaged individuals. This constitutes a 260% increase in black economic empowerment. We are also happy because contracts worth R95, 149 million were awarded to 35 women contractors. These are not just token awards. These women contractors in North-West are doing wonders. They are even delivering their work two to three months ahead of time - more than male contractors.

The integrated Modimola Expanded Public Works Programme Pilot Project was also awarded the gold award for the best performing team in the 2005-06 Premier’s public sector excellence award. This project has created 491 jobs. This government that is led by the ANC in North-West has turned the desert into a place where the people can live in North-West and therefore democracy is expensive.

According to our EPWP fourth quarter report for 2005-06, the province has created 14 761 job and training opportunities. In the month of February 2006 the Premier and I launched a R93,6 million investment in the Expanded Public Works Programme in the Taung area. The project is part of the Taung Development Programme, which is also part of the province’s five special impact programmes that are to contribute towards Asgisa.

As the department we have completed the Swartruggens hospital under the Hospital Revitalisation Programme. We are now engaged in the construction of the new 200-bed Moses Kotane hospital and 120-bed Vryburg hospital. We have also completed 10 clinics for the department of health. Indeed, yesterday doubt characterised our relationship with client departments and today confidence defines our relationship.

Under the School Building Programme, we have completed seven schools and 54 major and minor renovations. Our pace of delivery gives us the confidence to declare that we want to be the giant on whose shoulders the people of the province could stand. Our resolve for this financial year is that we are going to go mad as the department. Every employee in the department, including myself, is going to go mad. This, in our context, stands for Make A Difference. In order to make a difference to our youth in the new age of hope, we have established 38 learnership contractors belonging to youth in the last financial year. We have offered 60 internships to unemployed youth in this financial year.

On this note we want to welcome and congratulate the Minister.

… Nkosikazi yakokwethu, Mphathiswa, siyayixhasa.

Mandibe umzuzu wakho ndithi, okokugqibela, Sihlalo, namhlanje ngumhla wesithandathu kwinyanga yeSilimela. Ngalo nyaka, enye inkosikazi entle gqitha, ebaluleke kakhulu ebomini bam, phaya kwilali yakuManzimdaka, eSitholeni, yayiguqe emva kocango isizisa mna lo. [Uwelewele.] Ndiyayibulela loo ntokazi, Sihlalo. IMpondomise kuJola noMaga noSabu, umawel’ ukuzana, intombi kaTshakeni kwaTholelemfene kuTshakeni. Ndiyabulela. Enkosi. [Uwelewele.] [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)

[Hon Minister, we support you wholeheartedly.

May I steal one more minute of your time, please, hon Chairperson? The date today is 6 June. On this day, a very beautiful woman suffered the pangs of birth while she was bringing me into the world. [Interjections.] I am very grateful to that hon woman. She is the daughter of the Mpondomise, Jola, Mhaga, and Sabu clan, born of Tshakeni from Tholelemfene. Thank you. [Interjections] [Applause.]]. Ms A N T MCHUNU: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister and hon members, it is indeed a pleasure to have you here. We congratulate you on being with us here. Of course, we did express our condolences to the family and to all of us for having lost our mother and sister, the previous Minister.

The overall goal of the Department of Public Works is to provide and manage the accommodation, housing, land and infrastructure needs of national departments; to co-ordinate the national Expanded Public Works Programme; and to optimise growth, employment and transformation in the construction and property industries.

In the 2006-07 budget, the department is allocated an amount of just over R3,13 billion. This is R722 million more than last year’s allocation. The IFP welcomes this increase, especially considering that it provides for the Expanded Public Works Programme, the Re Kgabisa Tshwane programme and the ports of entry, such as road and railway border posts, international airports and harbours.

Today I want to focus on one of the department’s most important functions, and that is co-ordinating the Expanded Public Works Programme across all spheres of government and making sure that it helps towards meeting the national objectives and targets.

The EPWP is vital for creating work opportunities and training to address unemployment and poverty. By using labour-intensive methods to deliver government services, the programme is intended to give the unemployed an opportunity to gain work experience and training so as to improve their chances in the job market.

The programme also aims to provide them with skills in building construction, road and bridge construction, as is done by the Zibambeleni co-operatives, which provide training in sewing, gardening, cooking, baking and catering, spinning and weaving of the wool from our own sheep and cotton from our own fields, and this is what we would call the “real” Jipsa and Asgisa.

The involvement of the youth, under the Youth Foundation, needs to spread to all provinces in order to deal with youth unemployment, and I’m happy that the Minister mentioned the involvement of the Youth Foundation.

In the dark days of apartheid our hon president of the IFP, Dr M G Buthelezi, founded the youth corps in 1980 to help deal with youth unemployment. We have to deal with youth unemployment even today, and we have learnt from him that organising the youth under the youth corps is essential and can go a long way in this regard. Today the Emandleni-Matleng Camp has been turned into Mthashana FET college for youth training.

Now, in particular, the IFP is concerned about the co-ordination aspect in the province of KwaZulu-Natal. There are at least two examples where provincial EPWPs and other public works programmes are not properly co- ordinated, leading to poor service delivery.

At one time the Expanded Public Works Programme was handled by one Ministry, which comprised the department of transport and the department of public works. When the two were separated, the department of transport moved with the dismembered Expanded Public Works Programme from the department of works. Now, the EPWP does not provide the wider community with a variety of skills, as mentioned earlier.

Indeed, Zibambele co-operatives are doing good work under the department of transport, but let us expand this project to the wider community, make it sustainable and align it to the department of public works.

Secondly, the provincial department of health in KwaZulu-Natal did not have a good working relationship with the department of public works to engage it in the construction and maintenance of clinics and hospitals, for no clear reason. It was only after the direct intervention of an NCOP select committee that the provincial health department agreed to use the provincial public works department for hospital revitalisation purposes and for other construction and maintenance projects.

The IFP supports the budget, but urges the Minister to investigate the possibility of the Department of Public Works being aligned with the Expanded Public Works Programme to ensure that the programme serves a wider community, thereby delivering on its mandate at a higher level.

Mr F A WYNGAARDT (Northern Cape): Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, MECs from the respective provinces, ladies and gentlemen, it’s a great honour to rise in this House on behalf of the people of the Northern Cape. We applaud all opportunities created to allow input into processes of governance that are aimed at improving the lives of our people.

In the past financial year we reported to this House on several major projects that our department in the province had planned to implement on behalf of client departments. We are glad to report that some of these projects have been completed and some are in the final stages of construction.

The construction of four regional hospitals, one in Garies and others in Upington, Barkley West and De Aar, is well under way. The site for the construction of the new mental health facility in Kimberley has already been handed to service providers and work has started.

We are also in the process of completing the construction of clinics in Kimberley, Noupoort, Prieska and Petrusville. We also provided a service to the department of social service and population development in the province for the facilitation of the construction of community centres. The construction of the Calvinia Multipurpose Hall and the Resthaven Service Centre for the aged has been completed.

The construction of multipurpose centres in Grobelaarshoop and Strydenburg is in the final phase. We have, during this financial year, received a further mandate from the department of social services and population development to construct a new secure care centre in Springbok, funded to the tune of R12 million. We reported that the procurement process for this task has been completed and construction is about to start.

A total of 64 projects is envisaged by the department of education during the 2006-07 financial year. Of these projects, 26 are in the planning stage, eight have already been advertised, seven are in the adjudication process and our department has completed 16 project specifications and has already handed these over to the client departments.

The projects for the department of education are largely comprised of the construction of additional classrooms, administration blocks, ablution blocks, the provision of mobile classrooms, conversions, repairs and renovations. A total allocation of approximately R40 billion has been set aside for these projects.

An allocation of R43 million has been set aside for the public works unit of the department in the province. These funds are mainly spent on routine services, such as the leasing of property for office accommodation, cleaning services, security, personnel and other related costs.

Although related funding has not been provided for the 2006-07 financial year, the provincial executive council has mandated the department to plan for a parliamentary village and the building of a state house, which will accommodate the Premier of the province. The parliamentary village is intended to provide accommodation for the 30 members of the provincial legislature. The anticipated village is to be established at a cost of about R15 million.

The nagging shortage of technical skills in the construction industry is negatively affecting the delivery patterns in the province. We acknowledge that we have not done enough to salvage this state of affairs and the situation is getting worse. Between December last year and February this year we lost five engineers in the Northern Cape. That‘s a lot.

As more practitioners are leaving the employ of government for more rewarding opportunities in the private sector, the provincial department has, as a measure to retain some of these incumbents, reviewed the salary levels of engineers through the job evaluation process.

Amongst the benefits considered is the provision of state-owned houses for those coming from outside town and the appointment of mentors to assist technical staff. The mentors will assist staff to register with appropriate statutory bodies, such as the councils overseeing professional ethics.

Allow me just to give a word of advice to hon member Fielding. When he does undertake the difficult task of standing in for another member, he should try and get the speech 24 hours before the time. [Laughter.] It’s always good to internalise the speech so that you don’t stumble over these big words. English is not our first language.

In the EPWP in the Northern Cape, we managed to create more than 10 000 jobs. You will also remember that in the Northern Cape we employ more than 17 000 people in permanent positions in government, and the government has employed more than 10 000 additional temporary employees. In the Northern Cape, that is quite a lot.

So, in conclusion, hon members, we report to this House that the increasing effect of infrastructure development in the country also manifests itself positively in the Northern Cape. The private sector has bought into our plan and construction sites are a common sight in the major towns of the province. This, indeed, is a reassuring sign of an economy that is burgeoning and ready to address some of our challenges that include unemployment and poverty. I thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: A re lotšheng! [Good afternoon!]

HON MEMBERS: Re lotšhitše! Tama! [Good afternoon! Greetings!]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Kgoši! [Honourable Chief!]

Deputy Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, my Minister of Public Works, hon Thoko Didiza, all the MECs for Public Works from various provinces, hon members, senior management from the Department of Public Works, senior leadership of our statutory entities, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, let me take the opportunity to pay tribute to the late Minister of Public Works, Stella Sigcau, and thank her for the confidence she showed in me as her deputy.

Ours was a relationship held together by a common desire to improve the delivery track record of the department. I look forward to working with hon Minister Didiza, as the new executive authority, in pursuance of government’s objective to create a better life for all. I assure her of my total commitment and loyalty to my work.

The Department of Public Works plays a very central role in service delivery by providing our clients, including prestige clients, with a conducive physical environment, as well as maintenance, other facilities and management services from which to carry out roles critical to the socioeconomic development of the country and all its people.

In the past year we were able to provide adequate accommodation to the new members of the executive, following the appointment of an expanded Cabinet. We have also conducted refurbishments at various residences and on office accommodation as part of our repair and maintenance programme, as well as maintaining gardens and cleaning services, all of which were meant to improve the comfort of our most valued clients.

In addition, our prestige section also successfully organised, co-ordinated and managed high-profile state events, such as the Cabinet lekgotla, the Presidential Youth Working Group, state visits by international dignitaries and other similar events. With the assistance of our most committed staff and skilled contractors, we managed to host these events at the highest standard possible.

Together with the Department of Foreign Affairs, the prestige accommodation team assisted in the identification and procurement of the building that will become the home of the President of the Pan-African Parliament. The above property has since been registered in the name of the Republic of South Africa.

Furthermore, we upgraded committee rooms for both the National Council of Provinces and the National Assembly, and the air conditioning of the latter. We also upgraded Cabinet and green rooms at Tuynhuys, and provided media facilities and a radio studio at the imbizo media centre at the 120 Plein Street building.

As a department we remain committed to promoting the rights of the disabled so that we have a suitable facility that allows everybody to move around. We have also made the parliamentary precinct more user-friendly for the physically challenged, at a cost of about R5,2 million.

In this financial year we shall undertake phased furniture upgrade projects at some of our units in the parliamentary villages. I know about the issues raised here concerning parliamentary villages, and I can assure you that we are going to work very hard to address the problems that are there so you really feel at home when you go there. Somebody said that if you go there, and the conditions are as they are, you are not pleased. But, as I say, we are going to work very hard to address this problem. We’ve already planned a phased furniture upgrade project at some of the units in the parliamentary villages, all three of them.

An audit was carried out and some units, particularly in Acacia Park, were identified as requiring immediate intervention in terms of their furniture upgrade. Currently three show houses are nearing completion in the Arcadia Village, and members should be able to view them at the end of June, giving them a glimpse of what is being planned for these precincts. So we are addressing the problems there.

Following the expiry of the facilities management contract with WSP Sidibene on 28 February 2006, we have put in place a new  R310 million contract, over three years, for the comprehensive maintenance plan at our parliamentary precinct.

Our experience in the management of the previous contract will stand us in good stead to successfully undertake this project. We are at the needs analysis stage in our preparation for the appointment of a similar contractor in our Pretoria offices to ensure similar results.

Despite our progress to date, we are still faced with other challenges. We are working with the National Intelligence Agency to find ways to speed up the process of security clearance for our contractors, in line with the National Strategic Intelligence Act, Act 30 of 1994.

In fact, we are referred to as “the please wait department”, and so so. But I think that some of the issues have to do with the intelligence clearance, which sometimes is a problem. However, we are now working on this issue so that it can be speeded up, so that we are seen as a committed department of rapid response to requests, and so you don’t complain anymore.

The intention is to reduce delays in terms of delivery on our obligations to our clients. In the past the delays naturally resulted in unhappiness among our clients. We know this.

We will also review our procurement procedures in the hope of accelerating the project delivery process. As a department we have been engaging the Treasury in order to create ways of addressing insufficient maintenance on behalf of our clients.

Recently we commenced a process to update the ministerial handbook in the belief that this will expedite procurement of acceptable movable assets, including furniture, for our prestige clients. This is a prelude to our initiative to finalise the movable asset policy and the movable asset register.

As we look ahead to the future, we believe that improving service delivery is key to achieving lasting customer satisfaction. Consequently, we have introduced an infrastructure delivery improvement programme in the Department of Public Works to improve our budgeting, planning and project delivery turnaround.

Lastly, I have heard, many times, people referring to some weaknesses in the Expanded Public Works Programme. Maybe one can just summarise this by saying that people have a tendency to realise the value of water when the well is dry. When there is enough water there, they don’t think about the fact that the water is potable, is drinkable. But the moment the well is dry, then people want the water that they despised.

With these few words, I want to say: Let us support the Expanded Public Works Programme. It is our children who participate in it. I believe that if we encourage our children to participate in this programme, obviously this will move us forward. They will earn some money. Most importantly, they will get skills, which are very important for them to take along when they go into the world of work, to venture into the future.

I really feel that all of us must speak to parents. I’ve heard many criticisms against the Expanded Public Works Programme, such as: “It is not sustainable.” How can you criticise a person who gives a loaf of bread to somebody who is hungry, and ask: “Why do you give him bread, if you can’t give him bread for the rest of his life?” It doesn’t work that way. We are thankful that on that particular day I gave him bread. Maybe tomorrow I will give him more. I think that is the idea. I want to thank you. [Applause.]

Mr N D HENDRICKSE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon members, the Government Immovable Asset Bill, currently before the National Assembly, needs direction. A challenge is to generate an acceptable rate of return from state-owned properties.

A number of issues concern me. The first is the inadequate allocation, of R4,2 million to the Council for the Built Environment. This is a professional co-ordinating structure, tasked with the transformation of various disciplines and capacity development. This allocation does not do justice to these responsibilities.

The co-ordination of the Expanded Public Works Programme, especially in relation to some provinces, leaves much to be desired. Provinces are at varying degrees of project implementation. Essentially, this is the result of a lack of project management and engineering skills, in some cases.

History tells us that Germany, America and some other countries used public works projects during the 1930s to get them out of the doldrums at that time. And I think that this, as correctly stated, is the flagship in getting employment to our people.

I don’t think that there is any better captain of this ship than our new Minister. And, Minister, we would like to hold up your hands as you provide leadership for this project in the country. BEE deals have been prominent in the construction sector, but we have to be careful about some BEE consortia that enter into deals under false pretences with the aim of making a quick buck, leaving the partner BEE shareholding diluted owing to the quick sale of shares. This is not empowerment, but greed.

With the 2010 Fifa World Cup approaching, we can expect a mini construction boom surrounding the stadia that will be used as venues, and transport upgrading. This should stimulate the small emerging contractor programmes. Small contractors have been hard-hit by banks, etc, in the past.

I think we need to identify the banks that do not help our small contractors. We must also not be impatient with our small contractors. Many times we just use big contractors because we don’t want to run along with the small contractors and hold their hands.

Hon Chairperson, I’m also going to talk about the parliamentary villages. We need to improve the quality of the appointees to the parliamentary villages management board as the state of some of these villages is unacceptable. I’m glad that this has been mentioned here today. Madam Minister, we wish you well, and we support the budget. Thank you.

Mr M L FRANSMAN (Western Cape): Hon Deputy Chairperson, hon Minister, MECs, friends and colleagues, it is an honour for me to rise in support of the Minister’s budget. I am encouraged by our portfolio’s new leadership as well as the goals and objects that were highlighted by the hon Minister when she discussed the budget. We want to assure the Minister and the House of our commitment and support.

I must say to the acting director-general that it seems to me, after having listened to the Minister’s speech, that they will have to buy a lot of Red Bulls. It seems to me that people will have to work a lot. I wish them everything of the best. Clearly, that will come down to the provinces. Minister, we are ready, able and willing.

Allow me to welcome the new Minister to the Public Works fold. We are indeed delighted by your appointment. You can be assured of my support. I am certainly under no illusion that you will not provide the leadership that is required to achieve our service delivery goals, particularly the goals of Asgisa. The Public Works domain is the right field.

If the President has challenged us with a growth trajectory of at least 6%, if the President has said that that must happen through infrastructure-led growth, the strategic question is: How do we respond to that? I think what you have said today started to give an indication of the new approach and new response.

Your admirable efforts in land reform and agriculture are commendable. You have provided dynamic leadership, characterised by your drive and passion. I was looking at the good Reverend over there and I was thinking: “Indeed, there is possibly one really relevant and finest example if one says, in describing the national Minister: as wise as a serpent but as tender as a dove.” That, really, signals to me, for example, the type of passion, the drive and the commitment that the Minister speaks to.

Regarding the Western Cape, our support for the tabling in Parliament of the Government Immovable Asset Management Bill is welcomed. It is my view that this Bill will greatly contribute to the improvement of efficient and effective use of immovable assets by government departments. My department is currently engaged in the development of a strategic infrastructure plan for the Western Cape, in fact the masterplan for infrastructure delivery as well as the compilation of a comprehensive total asset management system for all our immovable properties in this province.

Also, in accordance with the provincial growth and development strategy as well as the strategic infrastructure plan, we have a key responsibility in utilising provincial property in a manner that will optimise and unlock economic and social opportunities. We therefore strive to strategically use our properties as a catalyst to guide development, drive transformation and instil confidence in, especially, underdeveloped areas.

One would also like to congratulate the department for its leadership role in assisting with the infrastructure delivery improvement programme that really talks to the education and health budgets. In the Western Cape alone, during the past financial year we were able to deliver 16 new schools. This means it has been possible to deliver a maximum number of quality schools, one school hostel and about 40 additional classrooms.

With those 16 schools, we were able to ensure that 22 000 classroom spaces were provided in the Western Cape. Further, in order to retain the momentum of accelerated infrastructure, with regard to school infrastructure, we, in collaboration with the provincial department of education, intend to complete another 17 schools by August 2007. We believe that this will go a very long way towards eliminating the problem of having children learning under a tree.

Regarding the Western Cape budget and public works, we are also engaged in the hospital revitalisation programme. We will start in Paarl with a R25 000 project. We will then move on to Khayelitsha and Mitchells Plain. Some years ago when the President was in Mitchells Plain and Khayelitsha, in terms of urban renewal, he mentioned that those issues needed to be dealt with.

In support of this 6% growth, if one looks at the department’s budget in the context of skills development, we believe, as the Western Cape, that we will have to put quite a lot of effort in skills development, both at artisan level and also at the higher levels of scarce skills.

Minister, you have, in a sense, only 14 900 professional engineers in the country. Those 14 900 professional engineers are supposed to underpin this growth trajectory. There is a problem and what we are presently doing is that we have launched what we call the Masakhisizwe project to build the nation. We have provided for at least 250 bursaries over the MTEF. We started with one investment this year and there are 130 students in campuses. Those students are studying professional engineering and we will take them into the field in a couple of years’ time. [Applause.]

Regarding the Expanded Public Works Programme, I think we have heard today also from opposition members that there is a need to upscale this programme. No one denied that it’s important that we constantly reflect on and engage in that process. In the Western Cape, we have also looked at that process. We have looked at how it was implemented in 2004 and at what the weakness were. We have met the target in the past financial year. We have moved beyond the target of 28 000 opportunities. But, regarding this financial year, we have upped it dramatically to at least 40 000. I think it’s right that you challenge us to take it much more forward. We are working on that.

Lastly, regarding the issue of learnerships, and that’s at the lower level of skills development, we have also identified the need for what we call an “unemployed database”. We hope that the national Minister, together with the department, will reflect on that because if we say so many people constitute the percentage of unemployed in the country, in the Western Cape, in particular, we actually want to get behind the statistics. We want to have a name, a portfolio or a profile of those unemployed. We have initiated that particular process. We will launch it next week, two days before June 16.

We will be launching the Learnership 1 000 Project, which, on the hand one hand, will aim to put artisan skills in place. We will guarantee an exit over the next two years for those students. But it will also deal with venture-creation capital, which you have spoken about in your address. We have identified 200 learners and we will take them into the procurement processes of the provincial government and certain municipalities. And for 18 months, we will guarantee each of them contracts to the value of at least R800 000 up to a maximum of R1,5 million. It is a massive intervention in the second economy.

I think your budget has spoken to those things. What we have put down as provinces, particularly in the Western Cape, is detail for that budget. We believe that, in forging that closer relationship, we can actually make a fundamental difference, as you articulated in the beginning. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, MECs, hon members, let me also, at the outset, welcome the Minister in her new portfolio and wish her everything of the best.

When the ANC took power in 1994, we inherited an economy that was based on dispossession, which created huge inequalities. This resulted in the creation of a country of two nations. Despite this legacy, the ANC-led government has thus far made great strides towards correcting these inequalities through sound policies and assuming collective responsibility to advance the democratic revolution. The ANC’s vision has always been one of a prosperous, equitable, stable and democratic society.

During the historic 51st national conference of the ANC in Stellenbosch, it was resolved by the delegates that the ANC as the leading force for social transformation carries an obligation through its cadres to spearhead and lead the transformation process. They further resolved that black economic empowerment was a moral, political and social requirement of the country’s collective future, the benefits of which must be shared across society and impact as widely as possible.

As the national general council reflected on the achievements of the first decade of democracy, it was agreed that South Africa is pointing in the right direction and is therefore heading for a better future. It is therefore significant to note that the mission of the Department of Public Works encapsulates these important values and confirms the statement made by our President in his state of the nation address when he said that the country is entering a new era of hope.

It is now clear that the DA went into the local government elections without any usable plans or policies. Since then the DA-led council of the City of Cape Town has accepted the budget drawn up by the ANC prior to the elections. Clearly, this is a party without creative thinking; a party without any plans; a party without policies and a party that got lost in the realities of a transforming society. There is a very good Afrikaans saying: “Hulle ploeg met ’n ander man se kalwers.” It means that they are taking credit for work done by other people – in this case, the ANC. [Interjections.]

As a member of the UN and as a signatory to the Millennium Development Goals Declaration, South Africa has committed itself to halve poverty and unemployment by 2014. To meet these goals, the country needs to achieve high levels of economic growth through specific interventions in the first and second economies, and this is provided for in Asgisa. To this end, the EPWP has been identified as one of the key catalysts of Asgisa for second economy interventions and will benefit immensely from the envisaged increased levels of investment in infrastructure.

Therefore the Department of Public Works as a national co-ordinator of the EPWP and the custodian of immovable state assets will play a leading role through its infrastructure maintenance strategy programme. The rationale for the infrastructure maintenance strategy is to ensure a sustainable multiyear investment in infrastructure, which will directly benefit small and medium contractors in the second economy and create employment.

On 17 March 2006 the property charter was adopted and currently processes are underway to establish a council charter. While the aim of the charter is to promote economic transformation in the property sector, in order to enable meaningful participation of black people, including women, and also to remove obstacles to property ownership and participation in the property market by black people.

It is interesting to note that large and exclusively white property companies, like Pam Golding and World Estates, are not signatories to the property charter. This therefore implies that the charter will never be fully able to encourage good corporate citizenship among enterprises in this sector, including participation in corporate social investment projects, when such big companies decide to go it on their own. I would like to call on the Minister to develop a means of punishment for those who do not feel obliged to participate in the process, like Pam Golding and World Estates.

The leasing of public office space from mainly one single property owner in Bloemfonteina is still a matter of great concern. This has resulted in a complete monopoly of this market by this entrepreneur. I’d like to call on government to urgently investigate this matter, since the control by one single entrepreneur of the office property market in a city like Bloemfontein, where government leases huge amounts of office space, cannot and must not be allowed.

The current situation, if left unchallenged, increases the entry barriers for new entrants to this market and will have a negative impact on black economic empowerment initiatives. I intend to submit a formal request for such an investigation to the national Minister in the near future. The questions that we need to answer are whether this situation is in line with the spirit and objectives of the property charter; whether all the lease contracts are valid in terms of the lease periods, and, thirdly, whether market-related rentals are being paid for these properties, in line with the national average of approximately R27 per square metre per month. Such a total monopoly and unbalanced situation in one sector of the Free State economy cannot be allowed and should be corrected as a matter of urgency.

Allow me to congratulate the national Department of Public Works on successfully turning around its poor state of financial management by obtaining, for the first time, an unqualified audit report by the Auditor- General for its 2004-05 financial year. [Applause.] Indeed, the new manner of leadership, which was introduced by the department to change the organisational culture, was successful.

I would like to respond to the DA but I must be honest, I did not understand a word of what was read or said. I just wonder if this is not a new strategy by the DA to make it impossible for us to respond. Thank you. [Laughter.][Applause.]

The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Sihlalo … [Chairperson …]

HON MEMBERS: Malibongwe! [Let it be praised!]

The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Igama lamakhosikazi! Nelamadoda liyobongwa ngelinye ilanga. [Let the women’s name be praised! The men’s name will be praised one day.]

Deputy Chair, Deputy Minister, MECs and hon members, indeed I must say that I was heartened by your welcome, all of you, and I’m sure, as a committed patron of this House, that we’ll continue to engage. I must assure the Chairperson that I will still participate in “Taking Parliament to the People”, wherever it is. I agree with you that the costs we have to incur in order to ensure that the people shall govern cannot be measured.

When the Freedom Charter was drafted in 1955, I think South Africans were even wiser, because they understood that if we talked about the government of the people led by themselves, there would be dual accountability that would be required. I think what the NCOP has done is to ensure that they put into practice that wish of the people then, which is our wish for the people today, namely to make sure that geographic location or language barrier does not become a hindrance in participating in our democracy. We want to say, as members of the public, if I may say so, and not as being members of the NCOP, we welcome it when we visit our villages, because then we can understand why we must pay tax.

From the debate, and particularly from the interventions of our MECs, we can indeed agree with this new slogan of Public Works that “South Africa works because Public Works works.” This is the new image that we want to commit to, and I think so do the MECs, as they indicated how much work has been done. Indeed I can say they’ve taken the challenge to the national department. Maybe, through solving the village question, we’ll make sure that members agree that South Africa works because Public Works works. [Interjections.]

There’s a statement that was made by the hon Yawa. He said from now on he would go mad. I analysed the statement and I said to myself, mad for what? I said Yawa, the MECs, the Minister and Deputy Minister, and the Public Service corps in the Department of Public Works, nationally and provincially, would go mad for improved service delivery, would go mad for upscaling the EPWP, would go mad to fight poverty and underdevelopment and would go mad for infrastructure growth in order to ensure that our economy grows.

So, he was letting you in on a secret of what we had discussed before this meeting. We said if we really wanted to make sure that South Africa works because Public Works works, we would have to behave like activists and forget a little that we are ladies and gentlemen, but understand that our duty was to put on our gumboots and work. So, hon Moatshe, you’ll appreciate that my gumboots will still work, not in Agriculture and Land Affairs, but in Public Works! [Laughter.] What makes me happy, however, is that Agriculture has not seen the last of me and the MECs of Public Works, because they are involved in comprehensive agricultural support programmes and finance for infrastructure. We want to see it working to build the dams for livestock; we want to see that money working for infrastructure, for dipping services; we want to see that money working for irrigation infrastructure, for fencing, but in an Expanded Public Works Programme way. [Applause.]

We also say we want to go mad working with our transport departments to ensure that when they contract out the rural roads, when they put up new infrastructure for provincial roads, this is done the Expanded Public Works Programme way. We also want to say to the departments of agriculture, in the provinces and nationally, that their money for land care – we might have to scrape together some money elsewhere – must make sure that those degraded soils and those dongas, of which there are three million in this country, the majority of which are in the Eastern Cape, offer us a good opportunity for an expanded public works programme in the environmental sector. [Applause.]

We want to say to the Department of Environmental Affairs, as they remove the alien vegetation that creates a problem for our livestock grazing the land, they must do so the Public Works way. But, interestingly, if a member of Salga is here, we asked our question during lunchtime: Why isn’t it possible that, in one of their functions of refuse removal and keeping our cities and townships clean for 2010, we would use an expanded public works programme?

Can you imagine? I’m sure all of us could sit down and just take 90 townships in South Africa, just as a start. Can you imagine if each one of those townships were to employ 100 men and women and young people whose job it would be to sweep the streets every day, whose job it would be to cut the grass next to our streets and around the schools and public offices such as the police stations, the clinics and hospitals, making them clean, keeping the environment clean, but at the same time creating job opportunities that are long lasting for our poor people.

Can you imagine if we were to take just 90 townships working with municipalities on their refuse removals instead of it being picked up by ordinary people, just buying bush knives and sickles, and some gumboots and overalls and protective gloves very cheaply, but cost-effectively, cleaning those towns with grass brooms. Can you imagine the difference we could make?

And if Environmental Affairs were to give us the plans we could make our townships green. It will mean 9 000 jobs that can be sustainable over a longer period by cleaning our townships and our cities. I don’t think it’s too much. It’s something we can do and we can indeed say that South Africa works because Public Works works.

Also, one of the issues raised by our hon members is the need for service excellence, and I think what we have seen in a number of provinces regarding the change in mindset and culture of not doing business as usual means it is possible to render excellent service to our clients. I think our responsibility, as the leadership in the executive, provincial as well as national, will be to ensure that our own Public Service understands that South Africa cannot work if they don’t work.

So it is important that the madness and the passion must be replicated below us. I’m sure the Deputy Ministers here are equal to the task. They will all go mad!

I think one of the issues that hon members raised related to the opportunity that Public Works offers us as government to intervene in a particular way in skills development and human resource capacity building, particularly in the construction sector, and it is there for us and it’s possible. I want to say this doesn’t only relate to skills in terms of construction per se, but also numeracy and literacy. Here you have a captive market for four months when people are building a road. During break times you can teach them to read and write. You can teach them to count their cents.

So the benefit of the Expanded Public Works Programme has got such linkages in terms of ensuring that we can give the benefits that our people never had over many years. Maybe, through this Public Works programme, we can extend our fast-tracking of literacy programme as government.

I want to indicate, also, that I’ve noted the lessons that have been learnt regarding how we can create possibilities for learnerships for our unemployed graduates through this programme. We can also start to focus on and plan for the future as we heard MEC Marinus Fransman indicating some of the deliberate programmes in which they say if we have to meet this 2014 target of growth of 6% growth, you can’t do it without engineers, you can’t do it without project managers, but you can’t wait and say because they are not there we will sit back and say shame we must get some people from outside either. While we get people from outside, we must also equip those who have skills and give them appropriate skills in these areas where we need them.

One more thing, if I may close without responding to everybody, what Public Works offers us as a country and as a government is that it is one area among all other functions of state where the state can deliberately drive and intervene in the job market through job creation. It is one area where the state can create an opportunity for someone who has never entered the world of work, even if it is temporarily. It is one area where the state can drive and fast-track infrastructure development to support our economy and our social environment, using labour-based methods. It is one area in which the state can undertake programmes without begging anybody, and I think the challenge for all of us is how we can make South Africa work like this Department of Public Works. I thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP We want to congratulate and thank our new Minister of Public Works, and we wish her well in her new position. May your goals and objectives be successful.

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 17:25. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)

 (1)    The JTM on 6 June 2006 in terms of Joint Rule 160(3) classified
     the following Bills as section 75 Bills:


     a) South African Institute for Drug-Free Sport Amendment Bill [B 7
        – 2006] (National Assembly – sec 75)

     (b)     Sectional Titles Amendment Bill [B 8 – 2006] (National
        Assembly – sec 75).

1. Introduction of Bills

 (1)    The Minister of Safety and Security


      a) Firearms Control Amendment Bill [B 12 – 2006] (National
         Assembly – sec 75) [Explanatory summary of Bill and prior
         notice of its introduction published in Government Gazette No
         28843 of 19 May 2006.]


     Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Safety and
     Security of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the JTM
     for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
     working days.


 (2)    The Minister of Sport and Recreation


      a) 2010 FIFA World Cup South Africa Special Measures Bill [B 13 –
         2006] (National Assembly – sec 75) [Explanatory summary of
         Bill and prior notice of its introduction published in
         Government Gazette No 28593 of 10 March 2006.]
     Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on Sport and
     Recreation of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the
     JTM for classification in terms of Joint Rule 160.


     In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification of
     the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three parliamentary
     working days.

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Education a) Government Notice No 540 published in Government Gazette No 28719 dated 10 April 2006: Call for written submissions from stakeholder bodies and members of the public on the draft policy document: An addendum to the policy document, the National Certificate: A qualification at Level 4 on the National Qualifications Framework (NQF), regarding learners with special needs, in terms of the National Education Policy Act, 1996 (Act No 27 of 1996).

 b) Government Notice No 603 published in Government Gazette No 28806
    dated 8 May 2006: Call for comment on the Further Education and
    Training Colleges Bill, 2006.


 c) Government Notice No 265 published in Government Gazette No 28657
    dated 24 March 2006: Calling for the nomination of persons to serve
    as members on the Second Umalusi Council for General and Further
    Education and Training Quality Assurance for the period 8 June 2006
    until 7 June 2010, in terms of the Act, 2001 (Act No 58 of 2001).


 d) Government Notice No 593 published in Government Gazette No 28790
    dated 3 May 2006: National policy regarding further education and
    training programmes: Approval of Modern Greek as an additional
    subject to be listed in the National Curriculum Statement: Grades
    10-12 (General), in terms of the National Policy Act, 1996 (Act No
    27 of 1996) and the South African Schools Act, 1996 (Act No 84 of
    1996).

1. The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism

 a) Government Notice No 385 published in Government Gazette No 28753
    dated 21 April 2006: Regulations in terms of Chapter 5, made in
    terms of the National Environmental Management Act, 1998 (Act No
    107 of 1998).


 b) Government Notice No 597 published in Government Gazette No 28803
    dated 5 May 2006: Draft Regulations relating to listed threatened
    or protected species, made in terms of the National Environmental
    Management: Biodiversity Act, 2004 (Act No 10 of 2004).


 c) Government Notice No 598 published in Government Gazette No 28803
    dated 5 May 2006: Draft national norms and standards for the
    regulation of the hunting industry in South Africa, made in terms
    of the National Environmental Management: Biodiversity Act, 2004
    (Act No 10 of 2004).


COMMITTEE REPORTS:



National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

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