National Council of Provinces - 07 November 2006
TUESDAY, 07 NOVEMBER 2006 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 17:18.
The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
MOTIONS
(Announcement)
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Hon members, I have been informed that the Whippery has agreed that there would be no notices of motion or motions without notice today. The secretary will read the first Order of the day.
CONSIDERATION OF PROHIBITION OF MERCENARY ACTIVITIES AND REGULATION OF CERTAIN ACTIVITY IN COUNTRY OF ARMED CONFLICT BILL (INTRODUCED AS PROHIBITION OF MERCENARY ACTIVITIES AND PROHIBITION AND REGULATION OF CERTAIN ACTIVITIES IN AREAS OF ARMED CONFLICT BILL) The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Deputy Chairperson, first of all, may I express our gratitude that the House found it appropriate to give us an opportunity to pilot the Bill in this House at this time and in this place, given the time constraints.
In 1960 the Congo achieved its independence. It is one of the richest countries on the African continent, but its riches have never served the people of the Congo in all of the years of independence; because no sooner had the Congo achieved its independence then the dogs of war – the mercenaries – were brought in and completely subverted the will of the people.
Therefore, for the past 46 years, until now when the Democratic Republic of the Congo can hold elections, the country has been brought to ruin.
Likewise, in the Comoros Islands in the Mozambique Channel between Madagascar and the mainland of Africa, some of the most beautiful islands in the world, the state was overthrown and disintegrated to the point where there was virtually no state to speak of. This was all done with the use of mercenaries.
Nor can we forget the experience of our neighbours: When the people of Namibia were fighting for their independence from South Africa, the apartheid regime unashamedly used mercenaries recruited in the 32 Battalion in the frontline against Swapo and the People’s Liberation Army of Namibia.
These are but a few instances to illustrate that mercenaries are the scourge of poor areas of the world, especially Africa. Killers for hire, they rent out their skills to the highest bidder, regardless of the political agenda of countries. Anybody that has money, an individual or a group of individuals, or a syndicate, can hire people and turn them into killing machines.
Some governments not imbued with a human rights culture or tradition, bypass the political will of their own citizens by employing citizens of poorer countries, either as killing machines or cannon fodder in their drive to retain political power or conquer it.
Mercenaries have directly impacted in one way or another on conflicts all over our continent, tipping the political balance in favour of their paymasters, and in the process subverting democracy. In the present era, advances in military technology have resulted in the increasing need for highly skilled military personnel.
We have seen, over the past two decades, the emergence of a global trade in hired military services. This, combined with massive cuts in defence budgets, has resulted in the privatisation of many sections of the defence functions. These private military or security firms have now assumed greater roles in conflict areas, such as Iraq, in the guarding of installations, the delivery of logistical supplies, the provision and running of aircraft, the provision of medical support and so on.
The expansion of this relatively new industry raises a range of concerns. A number of human rights abuses have been committed by some firms and in many instances their operations have led to a rise in internal tensions and sometimes even military coups in certain states.
These firms, falling as they do outside the prescripts of government, are not regulated by international law nor are they accountable to international bodies. The potential for abuse is high and there must be serious concern that the industry’s position in the legal sphere remains ambiguous. Thus regulation, at national level, offers the hope of both superior legal definition and enforcement.
The concern of this government is fivefold. The first is that our own South African citizens in foreign militaries could be involved in wars or conflicts which are undesirable for the Republic of South Africa to be involved in; for instance, where involvement is in contravention of international law or the Republic of South Africa’s foreign policy objectives are undermined.
Secondly, the activities of South African citizens in private military companies and private security companies could undermine the Republic’s foreign policy objectives.
Thirdly, the Republic’s armed forces, that is, the SA National Defence Force, could be confronted by forces from outside in which there are South African citizens. This possibility is not as remote as it might seem, more especially in peacekeeping operations in Africa.
Fourthly, the activities of the South African security companies could damage the reputation of South Africa. Perceptions of South African policy will be affected and there is a great risk of misinterpretation, where our citizens are found in activities contrary to the conventions that we may have signed. I draw the attention of the House to the damage executive outcomes had on the image of South Africa under the apartheid regime.
Fifthly, in some instances the South African government may have to intervene if the activities of any South African security company should go awry.
Consequently, regulation could have a number of positive spin-offs in that it may set standards for the industry and could help to establish a respectable and vibrant industry. There is no reason why this industry that provides essential services in the defence sector should be associated with dark and sinister forces.
The Bill before the House primarily focuses on five areas: firstly, mercenary activities, more specifically clause 2. Instruments of international law, such as the International Convention Against the Recruitment, Use, Financing and Training of Mercenaries and the OAU Convention for the Elimination of Mercenarism in Africa, recognise mercenarism as criminal and unlawful.
In line with these international instruments, clause 2 of the Bill imposes a complete ban on mercenary activity. The clause has an extraterritorial reach in that it grants our courts jurisdiction over perpetrators of these activities irrespective of where the acts are committed.
In certain instances our courts will have jurisdiction over foreign citizens, irrespective of where the acts were committed, where such acts have been committed against the Republic, its citizens or residents.
Secondly, clause 3 refers to the rendering of assistance and services. This clause requires that companies or individuals obtain authorisation from the National Conventional Arms Control Committee for the rendering of military assistance and security services to a party to an armed conflict or in a regulated country. Since the government issues permits for the export of military goods it seems logical that it should also regulate the export of military services and security services, more especially in an area of armed conflict. In this way the government would have an opportunity to consider the nature of the service to be rendered and the political and strategic context in which it is to be rendered.
This approach is more flexible than an outright ban and it recognises the right of citizens to choose their trade, occupation or profession and to continue to exercise those rights if they do not conflict with the law.
Thirdly, clause 4 deals with the enlistment of South Africans with armed forces. This clause prohibits South African citizens from enlisting with any armed forces, other than the security services referred to in section 199 of the Constitution, unless they have been granted an authorisation by the National Conventional Arms Control Committee for such enlistment.
The clause further empowers the National Conventional Arms Control Committee to revoke the authorisation where the person takes part in armed conflict and such participation, which, is in conflict with the Republic’s obligation under international law, results in infringement of human rights, endangers peace in a certain region or contributes to regional instability, etc. We refer here to clause 9.
Clause 5 deals with humanitarian assistance and it requires South African humanitarian organisations to register with the National Conventional Arms Control Committee for the purposes of rendering humanitarian assistance. It is important to note that in this respect organisations are only required to be registered as opposed to obtaining authorisation for each operation.
This is in recognition of South Africa’s obligations in terms of international law to facilitate the passage or rendering of humanitarian assistance in order to alleviate the plight of civilians in an area of armed conflict.
I am aware that some opposition parties have been concerned with regard to this. They interpret the clause to suggest that the South African government will deny humanitarian assistance to be granted by South African registered humanitarian formations. All we require under this law is that they register. In the process of registering, they must indicate the purposes and the nature of humanitarian assistance they provide.
The onus is on us to check whether these organisations are acting inside the mandate they asked for and the time which has been given. If they were to be found to have violated and acted outside the mandate they have been given, then of course the law will take its course and they may be prevented from then on to pretend to be humanitarian organisations under the mandate that they would have asked for.
Clause 13 therefore empowers the President to exempt humanitarian aid organisations from the provisions of this clause in order not to delay the rendering of humanitarian assistance. What that refers to is the fact that once they are registered and they have the mandate, when there is a disaster and an emergency, they are free immediately to deliver the services without having to stand in the queue and ask for permission to do so. But we must not find them doing something contrary to what they have said they have set the organisation up to do.
Fifthly, clause 15 deals with transitional provisions and this clause requires all South African citizens who are already enlisted with other armed forces to, within six months of the date of commencement of this Act, apply for authorisation by the National Conventional Arms Control Committee.
I refer specifically in this regard to South Africans who under the Commonwealth have enlisted with Her Majesty’s forces in the United Kingdom. Such individuals need now to ask the National Conventional Arms Control Committee, once this Bill becomes law, to seek registration with the committee and continue with their deployment in such forces.
The failure to apply and obtain authorisation under this provision constitutes an offence. In this regard, it needs to be understood that the activities of the South African citizens who are already enlisted will not immediately be criminalised upon the coming into effect of this Act. I repeat this: It needs to be understood that the activities of the South African citizens who are already enlisted will not immediately be criminalised upon the coming into effect of this Act.
Provisions of this nature are common practice in legislative drafting, more especially where there is a repeal of an old piece of legislation and it is necessary to migrate from one dispensation to the other.
This provision allows for sufficient time for those citizens to legitimise their activities and it is only after the period of six months has expired that their conduct becomes criminal. We are therefore satisfied that sufficient mechanisms have been built into the Bill to prevent any retrospective criminalisation of the activities that were not criminal under the regulation of Foreign Military Assistance Act of 1998.
This government is firmly committed to the outlawing of mercenary activities by its citizens. Madam Deputy Chair, I thank you. [Applause.]
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, hon Minister, my colleagues, special delegates and all protocol observed, I am glad, Chairperson, because the Minister has made my life very easy by explaining exactly what this Bill is all about.
What I’m going to do is deal with a few issues briefly, but also first deal with some concerns that were raised by our colleagues from the opposition in the committee. What pleases me in this regard is that all the parties in the committee are in full agreement that mercenary activities must be a thing of the past. However, our colleagues, for example the DA and FF Plus, had reservations about a few clauses. For example, they said that passing this Bill would lead to job losses.
They are also questioning the registration versus authorisation issue. I will just mention this briefly because my two colleagues, that is, the hon Moseki and hon Mack will deal with this particular issue in detail.
Let me briefly say the following: We once had a problem in this country with mercenary activities where they caused some divisions amongst our people. They killed and maimed innocent people in our areas. They did horrible things in this country and in other countries. They were just loose cannons.
Now a practical example is what happened and is even continuing to happen in Iraq. It’s only someone who is asleep who cannot see what’s happening there. Now let me give a recent example of what happened not so long ago.
Le tla gopola gore go na le bao ba ilego ba swarwa ka Zimbabwe ge ba be ba le tseleng ya go fetela Equatorial Guinea. Batho bao le tsebe gore ba ile ba swarwa ka gore go be go sa tsebjwe gore ke bomang, ba ya kae, ba ile go dira eng le gore ba thwetšwe ke mang. Ga ba tsebege molaong. Go be go le molaleng gore ba be ba se ba ngwadišwe le go fiwa tumelelo ya gore ba ye felo fao go yo senya dilo tša batho. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)
[You will remember that there are people who were jailed in Zimbabwe as they were on their way to Equatorial Guinea. You must realise that these people were jailed because it was not known who they were, where they were going, what they were going to do and who sent them there. They were not legally recognised and it was clear that they were not registered or even had permission to go there to cause chaos.]
But because we have this caring and loving government, it intervened, regardless of the fact that these people were neither registered nor was it even known who they were. They negotiated for their release; hence they are back home now.
Bjale o ka, ipotšiša ge gore bao ba rego mešomo e tla fela ka ge re nyaka gore batho ba ba tle ba ingwadiše gore mme ba tsebege gore ke bona bomang, mešomo e tla fela ka tsela efe? Mohlala, bao ba lego kua mafaseng a ka ntle e le gore ba a šoma goba ba šomišwa ke mafase a mangwe goba dikhamphani tše dingwe, ba a dumelelwa, ka ge e beilwe ke Tona gabotse, gore morago ga gore Molaokakanywa wo o phase, ba tloge gabotse ba boye gae ba tlo ngwadišwa gabotse go NCACC. NCACC e tla ba dumelela gabotse gomme ba tšwela pele ka go šoma mafaseng ao ba šomago go wona. Ga go na motho yo a tlago felelwa ke mošomo. Bjale ka segagešo re re, batho bao ba a lora goba ba bolela ditšie- badimo. Akere gabotsebotse re dira tše ka gore mmušo wo ke mmušo wa batho ka batho go batho.
Bjale ke nyaka gore re lebeleleng ntlh ye nngwe gape ke ye: Naa re nyaka gore naga ye ya rena e swane le maloba mola batho ba bego ba dira boithatelo? Karabo ke gore, aowa. Naa ekaba re nyaka gore batho bao e lego gore ba ya go thuša dinageng tše dingwe ba no ya mmušo o dutše o sa tsebe? Karabo ke gore, aowa. Ekaba re nyaka gore batho ba ba humane dibetša tšeo e lego gore ga di molaong, ba dišomiše mafaseng a mangwe moo e lego gore go na le dintwa tša diphathi goba tša mebušo ka kua ntle? Re ba dumelele naa? Karabo ke gore, aowa. Batho bao ka moka ga bona re re seo ba se dirago ga ba se dire se le molaong ka gore ke mang motho yo a ka ganago ge e le gore re bušetša maemo sekeng feela. Ga go na motho yo a tlago lahlegelwa ke mošomo. Ga go na motho yo a tlago ganetšwa go dira tšeo e lego gore o a di dira tša go tšea gabotse. Modulasetulo, nna ke kwana le go se nyake boseila-kgaka-se-nwa-moro, bomabina-go-solwa le bose-ya-le-bareki. Naa ekaba ba na le lenaneothero ge ba gana gore batho ba ba tle ba ngwadišwe gore ba tle ba tsebege? Maikemišetšo a bona ke eng? Naa ba nyaka gore batho ba ba se ke ba tsebjwa gore ba tle ba dire eng maswiswing goba ka sephiring? Yeo taba re ka se e dumelele.
Ka gona, seo se nkgahlago ke gore, ka moka re a kwana gore molao wo go nyakega gore o phase ka gore ga o gatelele motho, gape ga o šitiše motho go šoma. Ka gona motho a ka se felelwe ke mošomo. Molao wo o no re fela mokhwi, tseba o ingwadiše gomme ba tla go dumelela gore o tšwele pele ka mošomo wa gago – ke moka. Naa ba nyaka eng batho ba? (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)
[Now you ask yourself: Who says that people will lose their jobs when they are requested to register their names with the National Conventional Arms Control Committee, the NCACC, for recognition purposes? How can they then lose their jobs that way? Take, for example, the fact that people who are employed in foreign companies are requested to register with the NCACC. The NCACC will therefore allow them to continue their work in the countries where they are employed. Nobody is going to lose his or her job. In my culture, we say these people are dreaming or what they are saying does not make any sense. We are simply doing this because this is the government of the people by the people.
Something else I would like us to look into: Do we want our country to go back to the time when people would do as they wish? No. Do we want people to go and assist in other countries without government’s consent? No. Do we want these people to get access to illegal weapons and use them in other countries that are at war or where political parties are fighting? Must we allow that? No. Whatever these people are doing is illegal, otherwise why would they have a problem with transformation? Nobody is going to lose their jobs. No one will be prevented from doing anything they want to do, especially if it is good.
Chairperson, I do not like people who are not sure about what they want – people who just want to reap the benefits without any hard work. Do they have a programme of action now that they are against registration? What are their intentions? What is it that these people must do secretly or underground such that their names must not be registered? We will not allow that!
What I like the most is that we all agree that it is necessary that this Bill is passed as it neither oppresses anyone nor makes it impossible for anyone to go on with their work. No one will therefore lose their jobs. All that the Bill is saying is that people must register their names so that they will be able to proceed with their jobs. What more do these people want?]
I think we all know it is not wrong to make a mistake, but it is a mistake to commit the same mistake. So, therefore we can’t say …
… “a di je mabele”. Motho ke wa go laolwa beng ba ka. [… that they must continue. People need to be controlled and supervised.]
Let me take this opportunity to once more thank all committee members for their dedication, preparedness and readiness to walk that extra mile. To them, as I always say, no matter how deep the bottle is, the cream will always be on top. That’s who they, the committee members, are.
Hon Minister, we might be surprised because these committee members are so good. Some people might make our day today because maybe, for example, the hon Dr Van Heerden and the hon Darryl Worth might vote for this Bill because it is an innocent Bill. It does no harm to anybody. Mark my words.
Die tyd is nou. [Now’s the time.] Manje kuyisikhathi. Zwino ndi tshifhinga. Sweswi inkarhi. Nyalo sekusikhathi, nine bekunene. Ngoku lixesha. Bjalo ke nako for all of us to vote for this Bill. I would want to say: “Down with mercenary activities, down!’’ I thank you, Chair.
Mnr D A WORTH: Agb Voorsitter, Minister Lekota, agb lede en raadslede teenwoordig, huursoldaatbedrywighede het oor die wêreld, maar veral in Afrika, groot verwoesting gesaai en duisende mense se lewens is vernietig.
Die DA is gekant teen enige huursoladaataktiwiteite en sal die regering ondersteun om sulke bedrywighede teen te staan en uit te roei. Maar soos dit met talle regulasies, ooreenkomste en wette gaan, “the devil is in the fine print”.
Vyf en sewentig persent van persone wat die Suid-Afrikaanse Verdedigingsmag verlaat het, is wit. Regstellende optrede en verteenwoordigende kriteria het ’n groep wit Suid-Afrikaners van hul werk en toekoms afgesny. Die enigste uitweg vir hierdie groep opgeleide soldate is om elders in die wêreld ’n heenkome te vind.
Alle persone wat reeds in die buiteland hul beroep beoefen of in die toekoms wil beoefen, sal magtiging by die NCACC moet kry. Die NCACC is ’n ANC-beheerde liggaam en as gevolg van politieke dienstigheid kan besluite geneem word wat die individu se regte aantas. [Tussenwerpsels.]
Almal van ons weet hoe traumaties dit is om ons werk te verloor. ‘n Gebrek aan werk lei tot armoede en wanhoop. Indien ons nou ’n wet goedkeur wat dit moeilik of onmoontlik maak om ons vaardighede in die vrye mark aan te bied, kweek ons net al hoe meer spanning en wantroue.
Ek kan geen gevaar vir Suid-Afrika sien indien afgedankte weermagslede in die VSA, Australië, Engeland of enige ander demokratiese land se weermag diens doen nie. Waar daar wel gevaar is, is as duisende weermagslede verontreg voel net omdat hulle nie aan ’n sekere politieke party behoort nie.
’n Tweede persepsie wat deur hierdie wet versterk sal word, is dat die ANC alle aktiwiteite van die burgery sentraal wil beheer. Die onaangenaamheid in die Kaapstadse metropool is ’n sprekende voorbeeld waar die ANC nie eens die stembus gerespekteer het nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] Vryemarkbeginsels word met oorgawe van die tafel gevee wanneer dit nie in die groter plan pas nie.
Die weerstand teen die taxi-herkapitalisering is ’n goeie voorbeeld. Hoe goed ookal bedoel en hoe streng noodsaaklik dit ookal is, die individu wil nie hulle reg keuses uit te oefen, verloor nie. Met hierdie wet is dit presies dieselfde. Die individu wil sy vaardighede in die vrye mark aanbied en wil nie daardie reg as gevolg van politieke inmenging verloor nie.
Die meerderheid Suid-Afrikaners wil van Suid-Afrika ’n wenland maak. Ons is trots op die prestasies van die laaste dekade, maar daar is toenemende vrees dat daar op te veel terreine onnodige druk op wit en ander Suid- Afrikaners is. Dink maar aan die taaldebat, die skole, universiteite, die veiligheidsituasie en die verbysterende spoed waarmee regstellende optrede deurgevoer word, en u sal verstaan waarom spanningsvlakke besig is om te styg. Die bekamping van huursoldaatbedrywighede is 100% korrek, maar die wet sal ook veroorsaak dat mense se reg om hul beroep te beoefen ernstig benadeel word.
As daar een groep mense in hierdie land is wat behoort te besef watter emosies onderdrukking ontketen, is dit die ANC. Dit is dus verstommend dat die foute van die verlede so maklik herhaal word. Die DA kan glad nie hierdie wet ondersteun nie. Dankie. [Applous.] [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr D A WORTH: Hon Chairperson, Minister Lekota, hon members and council members present, mercenary activities right across the world - but especially in Africa - have wreaked havoc and destroyed thousands of lives.
The DA is against any mercenary activities and will support government to oppose such activities and eradicate it. But, as it goes with many regulations, agreements and laws, the devil is in the fine print.
Seventy-five percent of people who have left the South African Defence Force are white. Affirmative action and representative criteria have severed a group of white South Africans from their jobs and futures. The only way out for this group of trained soldiers is to find refuge somewhere else in the world. Every individual who is already pursuing his career abroad or would like to pursue it in the future must get authorisation from the NCACC. The NCACC is a body governed by the ANC and decisions taken as a result of political expediency can affect an individual’s rights. [Interjections.]
We all know how traumatic it is to lose one’s job. A shortage of jobs leads to poverty and despair. If we now approve a law that makes it difficult or impossible to offer our skills on the free market, we will breed even more tension and mistrust.
I can see no danger for South Africa if defence force members who have been dismissed do duty in the defence force of the USA, Australia, England, or in any other democratic country. The real danger lies in thousands of defence force members who feel wronged just because they do not belong to a certain political party.
A second perception that will be reinforced by this Act is that the ANC wants to centralise control of the activities of the citizenry. The unpleasantness in the Cape Metropole is an obvious example where the ANC cannot even respect the ballot box. [Interjections.] The principles of a free market are whole-heartedly surrendered when it fails to fit into the bigger plan.
The resistance to taxi recapitalisation is a good example. No matter how much good is meant and how necessary it is to be stricter, individuals do not want to lose their right to exercise their choice. It is the same with this Act. The individual wants to offer his skills on the free market and does not want to lose this right because of political interference.
The majority of South Africans want to make a winning country of South Africa. We are proud of the achievements of the last decade, but increasing fear exists that, in too many areas, unnecessary pressure is being placed on white and other South Africans. If you consider the language debate, schools, universities, the security situation and the bewildering speed at which affirmative action is being conducted then you will understand why tension levels are rising. It is a 100% correct to combat mercenary activities, but the Act will also result in people’s right to pursue their career being seriously harmed.
If there is one group of people in this country who should realise which emotions are unleashed by oppression, then it is the ANC. It is therefore surprising that mistakes of the past are so easily repeated. The DA can by no means support this Act. Thank you. [Applause.] [Interjections.]]
Mr N J MACK: Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Minister, hon members, MPLs, your Excellencies, distinguished guests, comrades, ladies and gentlemen …
Ons President het nie lank gelede nie gesê: “As jy nie werk het nie, regverdig dit nie dat jy moet gaan steel nie. As jy honger is, regverdig dit ook nie dat jy moet gaan steel nie.”
Hoe kan ons dit regverdig dat as ek nie ‘n werk het nie, ek dan na ’n ander land gaan en mense doodskiet? [Tussenwerpsels.] Dit is tog verregaande. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Not long ago our President said: “If you do not have work, that does not mean that you should go and steal. If you are hungry, that also does not mean that you should go and steal.”
How can we justify it that if one does not have work, one then goes to another country to shoot and kill people? [Interjections.] Surely that is outrageous.]
This Bill is in response to increased involvement by South Africans in countries in armed conflict around the world. Subsequently, in 2004, the Cabinet lekgotla mandated the Department of Defence to review the Regulation of Foreign Military Assistance Act, Act 15 of 1998, the RFMA Act. The Bill derives its strengths from a broad process of consultation involving an interdepartmental task team, consisting of the departments of Defence, Foreign Affairs, Justice and Constitutional Development, Home Affairs, the SAPS, the NIA, the NPA, the SAS and the NCOC.
The review of the RFMA Act was done with the purpose of improving its effectiveness. There has been engagement in the ANC study group on defence and the Portfolio Committee on Defence. That engagement was pervasive throughout the Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs on this Bill. In the same breath, the ANC’s 51st conference resolutions stressed the need to protect the sovereignty and territorial integrity of South Africa and provide humanitarian assistance to affected countries.
The aim of this Bill is to replace the principal Act, owing to a lack of prosecutions instituted against cases of mercenary activities. The need for an effective Act with regard to the regulations of mercenary activities was raised by the recent arrest of South Africans allegedly involved in a planned coup d’état directed at the government of Equatorial Guinea.
The irony was that the South African Government had to negotiate to get them freed - after they went there without any approval. We didn’t even know what they were going to do there. It was also realised that there was an ongoing recruitment of South African citizens by private military companies from outside the Republic to provide military and security services in areas of armed conflict. However, the Bill provides for the legal powers in order to prevent and control these activities more effectively compared to the principal Act, Act 15 of 1998.
There were mammoth gaps identified in the principal Act and around foreign military assistance regarding preconditions for the applicability of the Act’s provisions. There was no mechanism to determine the existence of armed conflict. The details of humanitarian activities were not included in the definition of the RFMA Act. Such exclusions were exploited in order to circumvent the applications of the principal Act. Another gap was the difficulty with the gathering of evidence, because mercenary activity appears and is done in secrecy. You will never know of it.
To sum up: the Bill seeks to provide for the following in line with the Constitution: to prohibit mercenary activity; to exclude an act if performed in line with international law or section 199 of the Constitution; to regulate the enlistment of South African citizens and permanent residents in the armed forces and regulate the provision of military and military-related services; to empower the President to proclaim a country as a regulated country; to provide extraterritorial jurisdiction in respect of persons who are citizens or who are permanent residents of the Republic or where a person has committed an offence in terms of the Bill outside the borders of the Republic; to authorise the provision of humanitarian aid under certain circumstances; and to provide for penalties, taking into account the seriousness of the offence.
There is no doubt that this Bill presents some practical challenges regarding the enforcement of certain provisions. There is a need for national and international education to promote compliance with the Bill. The monitoring and enforcement of the Bill require significant resources from the state. The arms trade and mercenary activities lead to the loss of lives, destabilise peace and stability and hamper economic growth and development.
We must continue to build a better life for all and a peaceful world. I will only give you one reason why the ANC must and will support this Bill: We have to continue to build a world that does not seek to generate private profits at the expense of human needs. [Time expired.] Thank you, Chair. [Applause.]
Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, thank you for this opportunity. The Bill before us: the Prohibition of Mercenary Activities and Prohibition and Regulation of Certain Activities in an Area of Armed Conflict Bill clearly stipulates the conditions that are laid down and that are visited upon our citizens.
It actually emphasises that:
No person may within the Republic or elsewhere – a) participate as a combatant for private gain in an armed conflict;
b) directly or indirectly recruit, use, train, support or finance a
combatant for private gain in an armed conflict;
c) directly or indirectly participate in any manner in the
initiation, causing or furthering of -
i) an armed conflict; or
ii) a coup d’état, uprising or rebellion against any government;
d) directly or indirectly perform any act aimed at overthrowing a
government or undermining the constitutional order, sovereignty
or territorial integrity of a state.
Modulasetulo, ha re bua ka molao ona, re tlamehile ho tebisa maikutlo le ho utlwisisa hore re bua ka eng. Hobane ho ba bangata, ha ho buuwa ka mishenare, mohlomong re bua ka ntho e nngwe e so kang e bonahala, e so kang e etsahala mona ka hara naha ya rona. Ke ka hoo hangata re sa tsebeng ka yona. Molao ona o leka ho hlophisa le ho thibela mesebetsi e meng e etsuwang ke masole ana a sebediswang ke dinaha tse ding kapa batho ba bang ba nang le ditjhelete ba ka ba rekang hore ba ilo etsa mesebetsi e meng ho ntshetsa merero ya bona pele, e leng merero e tsejwang ke bona feela.
Re ka nka mohlala o le mong. Naha ya Equatorial Guinea ke mohlala o motle, le ha morero ono o ile wa nyopa mane naheng ya Zimbabwe. Mohlomong ke tla tla ke hlakisa hore ebe ke bolelang ha ke rialo. Mesebetsi ya mekgatlo ena e siya mahlomola moo e fetileng teng. Qeto ke hore bohle bao e leng ba mekgatlo eo e seng ya sesole, ba tlameha hore ba ngodise mme ba tsebise mesebetsi ya bona, ekaba ka hara naha kapa ka ntle ho naha.
Mang kapa mang o tlameha ho ngodisa hore o ya naheng efe, le hore mosebetsi oo a tlang ho o etsa moo ke ofe. Le tla utlwisisa ha ke sebedisa Equatorial Guinea hore ke hobaneng. Ho na le batho bao re neng re sa tsebe hore ke masole, ke hore dimishenare tseo re buang ka tsona. Ba ne baya mane Equatorial Guinea. Ka bomadimabe ha re tsebe hore ba ile ba fihla jwang mane Zimbabwe, mme ba tshwarwa moo.
Ho a utlwahala hore morero wa bona o ne ole mane Equatorial Guinea, mme he, re tla utlwisisa hore batho bao e ne ele baahi ba naha ena. Lefapha lena leo letona le buileng ka lona, ke lona le tlamehang hore le tsebe batho ba jwalo ka hara naha, le hore baya kae, neng, mme ba ilo etsang. Ha ke bone phoso mono. Hona etla be e le ho tshireletsa seriti sa naha, ho tshireletsa lona baahi ba naha ena, hobane ha ho motho ya tlamehileng ho etsa merero e jwalo ntle le hore ebe ke setlokotsebe. Ke a leboha. [Mahofi.] (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson, when we talk about this Bill we must understand what we are talking about. Because to many people, when we talk about mercenaries, we are talking about something they have never seen, something that has never happened in our country. That is why most of the people do not know about it. This Bill tries to regulate and prohibit activities done by combatants who are being used by other countries or wealthy individuals who just want to serve their own missions.
We can use one example, that of Equatorial Guinea, even though that mission was cut short in Zimbabwe. I will perhaps explain later what I mean by this. Missions carried out by such groups always leave misery in the affected areas. The decision is that all those who are members of combatant groups that do not form part of the military force should register and declare what their activities in and out of the country are.
Everybody must register before leaving the country and explicitly explain the destination and the purpose thereof. You will understand why I am using Equatorial Guinea as an example. There are some people and we didn’t even know that they were soldiers, that is, among the mercenaries that we are talking about. They were heading for Equatorial Guinea. Unfortunately we do not know how they landed in Zimbabwe, which is where they were arrested.
It has been said that their mission was in Equatorial Guinea, and we should remember that those people were citizens of this country. The department, which the Minister has been talking about, must know about such people and know where they are going, when and for what. I don’t see a problem with that. This would be a step to protect the dignity of this country and its citizens, the reason being that no person should engage in such missions, unless that person is a criminal. Thank you. [Applause.]]
Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Madam Chair, armed robbers, murderers and rapists disrupt society, and the government of South Africa and all South Africans disapprove strongly of this, but I, who as a lawyer and medical person must treat and represent these persons, do not need authorisation by government before I can act for these people. This is strongly disapproved of by government. But …
Wanneer ’n soldaat sy beroep wil beoefen – as ek as ’n regsgeleerde of ’n ander persoon as ’n medikus ons beroep wil beoefen om hierdie mense te verdedig en te behandel in geval van beserings – en nou praat ek van rowers en moordenaars – dan is dit in orde. Hulle is geregistreer. Ons het nie ’n probleem teen die registrasie nie, hoegenaamd nie. Trouens, die Vryheidsfront sê: registreer die soldate sodat daar kontrole is ten opsigte van hulle. Dit maak eenvoudig nie sin nie.
Die agb Minister het daarna verwys dat die persone se beroepsekerheid nie aangetas word nie. Met respek, agb Minister, wat ons hier het, is ’n verkragting van die “Rule of Law”, soos verskans in artikel 1 van die Grondwet. In die tweede plek word die beroepsekerheid van mense hierdeur aangetas. Die VF Plus kan dit nie onderskryf nie en sal dit teenstaan, alhoewel ons gestem het vir die wenslikheidsoorweging van hierdie wet. Ons is natuurlik ten gunste daarvan.
As een land se weermag teen ’n ander land se weermag baklei, is dit ’n totale ander situasie, met respek, as wanneer een land se weermag teen rebelle moet veg. Daarteen het ons geen beswaar nie. Ons sê daar moet kontrole uitgeoefen word by wyse van registrasie, nie by wyse van magtiging of “authorisation”, soos die wet sê nie. En daaroor het die VF Plus baie sterk gestaan op die wysiging van klousule 4 in die wetsontwerp met betrekking tot registrasie.
Interessant, die Minister het uitgewys hierso in artikel 5 dat humanitêre instansies geregistreer moet word, maar in die vorige klousule, klousule 5, praat hulle van “authorisation”. Dit maak nie sin nie. Die hele gedagte is dat ’n persoon volgens hierdie wet nou toestemming moet hê alvorens hy of sy hul beroep as ’n soldaat kan beoefen en die verskil is ’n klein verskil, maar dit is ’n wesenlike verskil om te registreer.
Alle beroepsorganisasies word geregistreer: dokters, advokate, medici- noem op. Dan is daar kontrole, maar nie in hierdie wet nie. En die VF Plus sal helaas daarteen stem, alhoewel ons ten gunste van die beginsel van die onwettigverklaring van huursoldate is. Maar ons gaan nie hierdie wetsontwerp ondersteun nie. Dankie Voorsitter. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[When a soldier wishes to perform his duty – if I as a legal person or someone else as a medical person wants to practise our profession to defend these people or treat them in the case of injuries – and here I am referring to robbers and murderers - then it is in order. They are registered. We do not have a problem with registration, not at all. In fact, the Freedom Front Plus says: We should register these soldiers so that there can be a measure of control in respect of them. It simply does not make sense.
The hon Minister has made reference to the fact that the job security of these people will not be affected. With due respect, hon Minister, what we have here is a violation of the Rule of Law as entrenched in section 1 of the Constitution. In the second instance, the job security of these people is at stake. The FF Plus cannot endorse this and will oppose it, although we voted for the consideration of desirability of this Act. Naturally we are in favour thereof.
If one country’s armed forces are engaged against those of another country, it is a completely different matter, with respect, as opposed to one country’s armed forces being deployed against rebels. We do not object to that. We say that control should be exercised by means of registration, not by means of “authorisation,” as the law stipulates. Hence the firm stance taken by the FF Plus towards the amendment of Clause 4 in the Bill with regard to registration.
Interestingly, in Section 5 of the Bill, the Minister pointed out that humanitarian institutions should be registered. But in the previous clause, clause 5, they speak of “authorisation”. It does not make sense. The whole idea is that, according to this Act, a person should now have to be authorised in order to perform his or her duty as a soldier and the difference is minimal, but it makes a substantial difference to register.
All professional bodies have to register: doctors, advocates, medical practitioners, you name them. Then there is control, but not in this Act. And the FF Plus, alas, will oppose it, although we are in favour of the principle of outlawing mercenaries. We will not, however, support this Bill. Thank you, Chairperson.]
Rre A L MOSEKI: Modulasetilo, re a leboga. A re tseye tšhono e pele go dumedisa Letona la Tshireletso la naga ya Aforika Borwa, Rre Terror Lekota, batlotlegi botlhe ba ba leng mo kopanong e, le badirammogo. Dikgogakgogano tse re leng mo go tsona tse, dipuisano tse re leng mo go tsona ka Molaokakangwa ona, ke dipuisano tse di botlhokwa thata.
Jaaka Tona e tlhalositse le modulasetilo wa komiti, go na le dilo tse dintsi tse di diragetseng, tse dingwe tsa tsona di eteletswe pele ke batho ba Aforika Borwa, ba bangwe ba bona ba sena molato, basa itse gore go diragala eng. Dikai di setse di filwe tsa batho ba ba tshwerweng kwa Zimbabwe, jalo le jalo. Fela ga re buisana ka Molaokakangwa o, gongwe re ka lebelela gore dikakanyo tsa DA le Freedom Front gore ke eng, ka ntlha ya gore go na le dilo tse ba di buwang, fela go na le dilo tse di bofitlha tse basa di tlhagiseng tse e leng gore ke yona tota lenaanetema la bona.
Jaanong, fa dilo tsena tse di maswe di diragala tsa gore MaAforika Borwa a leke go ya go menola puso ya Equatorial Guinea, DA e ne e di goga kwa pele mo go reng puso ya Aforika Borwa ga e kgathalele MaAforika Borwa. Ka jalo puso ya Aforika Borwa e tsereganye mo go busetseng batho bao gae, batle go sekisediwa mo gae.
Gompieno re bua ka Molaokakangwa o o reng o thuse batho ba Aforika Borwa gore ba seka ba iphitlhela ba dira ditiro tse e leng gore ga ba a tshwanela go di dira mo dinageng tse dingwe.
DA ya re e kgatlhanong le Molaokakangwa oo, lenaanetema la DA ke eng? DA e na le lemorago la gore e tswa mo lemoragong ya puso ya kgathelelo. Selo sa ntlha batho ba ba eteletseng mokgatlho oo pele, ba tswa mo dithulaganyong tsa sesole sa rona sa Aforika Borwa. Go raya gore bone ka bo bone ba ne ba tsaya karolo mo go tlhakatlhakanyeng Aforika Borwa, ba ne ba tsaya karolo mo go tlhakatlhakanyeng kontinente yotlhe. Go raya gore lenaanetema la bona le sa ntse le tswelela la gore; a peaceful continent, a peaceful world does not serve their interests.
A re lebelele gore kakanyo ya ANC ke eng ka Molaokakangwa o. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)
[Mr A L MOSEKI: Thank you, Chairperson. Let me first take this opportunity to greet South Africa’s Minister of Defence, Mr Terror Lekota, distinguished personalities present here and my colleagues. It is very important to acknowledge our differences and have vigorous debates on this Bill.
As the Minister and the chairperson of the committee already explained, many things have happened; some of them led by South Africans who are innocent and have hardly an idea of what is happening. Examples have already been given of people who were arrested in Zimbabwe, etc.
But when we discuss this Bill maybe we might have to look into the views of the DA and Freedom Front. There are so many things that they say, but they do not make known some of their views which is the main concern of their agenda.
Now when these horrible things occurred, an attempt by South Africans to overthrow the government of Equatorial Guinea, the DA was at the forefront of criticising the South African government for not taking care of its citizens. So the South African government intervened in returning those people back home, so that they can have their trial here. Today we are talking about the Bill that would help South Africans not to find themselves doing work they are not supposed to do in certain countries
The DA is against this Bill; what is their agenda? The DA shows the influence of an apartheid regime orientation. Firstly, the leaders of this party are products of our South African defence force system. This implies that they were involved in causing pandemonium in South Africa and on the whole continent. Therefore, this implies that they are still continuing with their agenda that says a peaceful continent, a peaceful world, does not serve their interests.
Let us look at what the ANC‘s view on this Bill is.]
Ms J F TERBLANCHE: I want the member to withdraw the statement that says that members of the DA formed part of a group of people who destabilised this country, because it is not true. I want him to withdraw and I would like you to please make a ruling on that.
Mr A L MOSEKI: Modulasetilo go tswa gore fa o bua ka nnete o e bua o eme kae tota. Ke akanya gore mo go mme o le, nnete e mo ena, ke bogagaru, ke boitimokanyi. [Chairperson, when you are talking about the truth, it really depends on where you are standing on this point. I think that the truth of that lady is greediness and evilness.] Ms J F TERBLANCHE: Deputy Chairperson, would you please make a ruling on whether hon Moseki should withdraw that statement or not, because I still say it is not the truth.
Rre A L MOSEKI: Mme Modulasetilo, mme o le, ga a tsamaise kopano e. Ga a kake a mpha tswetso ya gore ke bue jang ke seka ka bua jang. Ke wena o tsamaisang kopano e. Jaanong ka tetla ya gago ke ne ke kopa go tswelela pele. Kakanyo ya ANC go tloga bogologolo … (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)
[Mr A L MOSEKI: Madam Chairperson, it is you who are chairing this meeting and not that lady. So, with your permission, may I continue? For a long time the ideology of the ANC …]
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Can I just make a ruling, please. It’s not a point of order, hon Terblanche. Thank you.
Mr A L MOSEKI: Kakanyo ya ANC go tloga ka nako e e theilweng ka yona go fitlha ka 1955 fa batho ba Aforika Borwa ba kopane kwa Kliptown, ba buile jaano gore ba batla kagiso mo Aforika Borwa. Re batla kagiso le ditsala tsa rona tse re tshelang le tsona, ke kakanyo ya ANC eo. Tona e setse e buile ka gore re saenile dikopano tsa boditšhabatšhaba di le mmalwa. Ke bopaki bo bo tletseng gore ponelopele ya ANC ka Aforika Borwa, ka lefatshe lotlhe ka bophara ke eng. Jaanong maipato a a dirisiwang ke DA le FF, selo sa gore fa Molaokakangwa o, o fetisiwa, o ya go dira gore batho ba tlhoke ditiro. Nnete ga se yona eo, nnete ke gore ba na le lenaanetema le ka lona ba batlang go nna karolo ya tlhakakanyo ya kontinente e, le naga e, le lefatshe le. Ke nnete ba batla gore batho ba ba dirang jalo ba tswelela ka dilo tse di ntseng jalo. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)
[This has been the ideology of the ANC from the time it was formed until 1955, when the people of South Africa gathered in Kliptown, when they then decided that they needed peace in South Africa. It is the ideology of the ANC to make peace with the people we are living with. The Minister has already spoken about the international conventions that we have signed. This provides evidence of what the vision of the ANC is for South Africa and the world at large.
The views given by the DA and the FF Plus that when this Bill is passed it is going to create unemployment, is not true. The truth is that they have their own agenda, to be part of the forces that plunge this continent, country and the whole world into pandemonium. It is true that they want the people who do that to be succcessful.]
And having said that, I think we must be very clear as the ANC that we are part of this continent now and that’s why we are playing a role in the other neighbouring countries in order to bring peace and stability. We are part of the world. All the peace-loving citizens of this country will not allow themselves to be used for wrong reasons by the petty political hypocrisy of these opposition parties who are objecting to this event. Having said this, we as the ANC want to unconditionally move that this Bill be adopted by this House. Thank you very much.
The MINISTER OF DEFENCE: Madam Deputy Chair, perhaps just a few platitudes, but they have to be made. Those who oppose the Bill insist that it is aimed at denying whites the right to exercise their professions.
For starters, let me say that since we democratised the country - men and women in this House and in the National Assembly, and members of the South African population will bear witness to that - we have never made a law for only one section of the population or another. That was the practice of the old regime. There were laws made for blacks and there were laws made for whites. Today we make laws for all South Africans, rich and poor. It is a fallacy to suggest that only whites have got military skills.
Banna ba ileng ba tshwarwa Zimbabwe ba ya Equatorial Guinea, boholo ba bona e ne e le ba batsho. Makgowa a ne a le mmalwa. Ba kwalla kaofela. [Mahofi.]
Kahoo he, molao ona o etsetswa ba batsho, ba basweu, le ba basootho, ba batelele le ba bakgutshwane, ba nonneng le ba otileng. Molao ona re o etsetsa hore mang kapa mang a se ke a etsa ntho ena eo re reng ha e a tshwanela molao oo.
Ntlha ya bobedi eo ke batlang hore ke tle ke e hatelle ke ya hore batho bohle ba Afrika Borwa re na le ditokelo tseo re di filweng ho Molaotheo. Empa ditokelo tseo, ho teng moo mmuso o lokelang hore o di notle teng hobane re ke ke ra tlohela feela hore ntho di etswe le ha ho so ho fetelletse. Kahoo motho e mong le e mong naheng ena o dumelletswe hore a sebetse, a sebedise bohlale ba hae hore a iphumanele tjhelete e ngata mme a e kenye le ha ekaba bankeng kapa a etse mesebetsi eo a e hlokang.
Empa ha re o fumana o bolaya batho hore o tle o be le tjhelete, re a o kwalla, hobane o sebedisa tokelo ena ya hore o be le tjhelete, empa o e etsa ka tsela e seng molaong e ntshang ba bang kotsi. Ditokelo tseo re nang le tsona, bohle batho ba na le tsona. Haeba o sa batle hore batho ba o bolaye ba tle ba be le tjhelete e ngata, le wena o tshwanetse o utlwisise hore ha ho a tshwanela hore o etse jwalo.
Mme he, molao ona wa Afrika Borwa re o etsetsa batho ba Afrika Borwa mona Afrika Borwa. Le ha ba tsamaya mafatsheng a mang, molao wa nana ena o ntse o ba tlama maoto le matsoho ho o hlompha. (Translation of Sesotho paragraphs follows.)
[The majority of the men who were arrested in Zimbabwe, on their way to Equatorial Guinea, were black. There were few whites. They were all arrested. [Applause.]
Therefore, this legislation has been made for all people; black, white, coloured, tall and short, fat and thin. This legislation has been made for everyone not to transgress it.
The second issue I would like to emphasise is that all the people of South Africa have rights that are enshrined in the Constitution. But that being the case, there are some instances in which government has to curtail these rights because we feel that we cannot let matters get out of control. Therefore anyone and everyone in this country is allowed to work, to use their intelligence in order to make lots of money and put it in a bank or take care of their needs.
But if you are caught killing people in order to make money, we will lock you up, because you are exercising this right to make money, but you are using it in an illegal manner that is harmful to others. The rights that you have, other people have too. If you would not want to be murdered for your money, you should understand that you are also not supposed to do that to other people.
The laws in South Africa are made for South Africans in South Africa. Even when travelling in other countries, they are still bound by the laws of this country.] Therefore, we will not allow any South African to go and kill innocent people in other countries in order to make money there. You are not allowed to kill people in any other country to merely make money there. You are not allowed by this government to go to any country and kill people in order to make money. So, this is the position now. If you have any expertise you can work at home or anywhere in the world, as long as you are within the confines of the law of this land.
Hon Van Heerden het die saak geopper van die “authorisation of registration”. In die konsepwet is aan die begin die woord “authorisation” gebruik. Ons het dit wel gewysig, want toe die konsep voor die Nasionale Vergadering gedien het, is daar beswaar gemaak en moes ons duidelikheid kry. Gevolglik het ons besluit dat humanitêre organisasies hoef net te registreer en in die proses gaan ons vasstel watter mandaat hulle wil hê, asook die doel van hulle aansoek. Daarna staan dit hulle heeltemal vry om voort te gaan met hul werk, veral waar daar rampe is – sonder om weer vir toelating te kom vra. Die registrasie is genoeg. Ons sal self, deur middel van die NCACC, opvolgwerk doen om seker te maak dat ons kan bevestig of hierdie organisasies binne die mandaat bly, al dan nie.
Wat betref mense wat militêre hulp wil verskaf, hulle moet egter herhaaldelik vir toelating aansoek doen. Daar is ’n groot verskil tussen daardie twee en as u daardie konsepwet weer bekyk, sal u sien dat dit daardie wysiging is wat ons aangebring het. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Hon Van Heerden raised the issue of “authorisation or registration”. In the draft bill the word “authorisation” is used at the beginning. We did indicate it, because when the draft was introduced in the National Assembly, objection was made and we had to get clarity. Therefore we decided that humanitarian organisations have only to register and in the process we will ascertain which mandate they want, as well as the purpose of their application. After that they are free to continue with their work, especially when there are disasters - without asking for admission again. The registration is enough. We will, through the NCACC, do follow-up work to ensure that we can confirm whether these organisations stay within the mandate, or not.
With regard to people that want to provide military assistance, they must however apply repeatedly for admission. There is a big difference between these two and if you look at the Draft Bill again, you will see that we have made that amendment.]
Now, why is there rising tension in the country because of this law? If we made a law that said only blacks may get onto luxury buses and that whites must just get onto majakathata [rickety old buses], I would imagine that that would generate tension inside the country.
We must avoid creating spooks where they do not exist. South Africans today are increasingly more confident about their future. Indeed, recent reports indicate that many whites - and the FF Plus is the one that is giving that information to us - who left South Africa in the earlier period as a result of encouragement and invitation by the FF Plus and the government and so on, are now coming back to the country in big numbers.
In fact, Home Affairs is unable to process the requests as quickly as those people want to come back. I am now talking about white South Africans who left when they thought there was no future in this country. But everybody in this country, both black and white, have illustrated that there is such a fantastic future ahead of our nation that those who left are now coming back. I appeal to the House, let us vote this legislation into law.
South Africa today occupies the most respected position in international affairs. The reason that we have now been voted to join the UN Security Council has been as a result of the performance of this government and as a result of this kind of legislation. [Applause.] So, I appeal to the House to vote for this legislation; let’s make this law in order to protect the image our country has begun to build for itself and to lead other nations in the direction of not just saying we want peace and we want to eliminate conflict but by actually doing so in practical terms. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M HOLLANDER): We thank the hon Minister of Defence for his enlightening and closing input to the debate. That concludes the debate. I shall now put the question. The question is that the Bill be agreed to.
In accordance with Rule 63 I shall first allow parties the opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish.
We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. Those in favour say: Aye.
HON MEMBERS: Aye!
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M HOLLANDER): Those against say: No.
HON MEMBERS: No!
The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M HOLLANDER): I think the ayes have it. [Applause.]
The majority of members have voted in favour. I therefore declare the Bill agreed to in terms of section 75 of the Constitution. [Applause.] Agreed to.
The Council adjourned at 18:22. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
FRIDAY, 3 NOVEMBER 2006
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
-
The Minister of Science and Technology
(a) Report and Financial Statements of Academy of Science of South Africa for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Independent Auditors on the Financial Statements for 2005-2006.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces
-
Report of the Select Committee on Public Services on the Carriage by Air Amendment Bill [B 18 – 2006] (National Assembly - sec 75), dated 01 November 2006:
The Select Committee on Public Services, having considered the subject of the Carriage by Air Amendment Bill [B 18 - 2006] (National Assembly – sec 75), referred to it, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
MONDAY, 6 NOVEMBER 2006
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- Membership of Committees
1. The following changes have been made to the membership of Joint
Committees, viz:
Constitutional Review Committee
Appointed: Joubert, Mr L K, Ms Camerer, Ms S M (Alt)
JMC on Improvement of Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth
and Disabled Persons
Appointed: Ngaleka, Ms E, Mohlaloga, Mr M R (Alt), Madella, Mr
A F (Alt), Tobias, Ms T V (Alt), Kondlo, Ms N C (Alt),
Mkongi, Mr B M (Alt)
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces
-
Report of the Select Committee on Education and Recreation on the South African Institute for Drug-Free Sport Amendment Bill [B 7B - 2006], dated 1 November 2006:
The Select Committee on Education and Recreation, having considered the subject of the South African Institute of Drug-Free Sport Amendment Bill [B 7B - 2006] (National Assembly- sec 75), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 75 Bill, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
TUESDAY, 7 NOVEMBER 2006
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM)
(1) The JTM on 2 November 2006 in terms of Joint Rule 160(6)
classified the following Bill as a money Bill:
a) Adjustments Appropriation Bill [B 32 – 2006] (National Assembly
– sec 77)
(2) The JTM on 7 November 2006 in terms of Joint Rule 160(6)
classified the following Bill as a money Bill:
a) Revenue Laws Amendment Bill [B 33 – 2006] (National Assembly
–sec 77)
(3) The JTM on 7 November 2006 in terms of Joint Rule 160(6)
classified the following Bill as a section 75 Bill:
a) Revenue Laws Second Amendment Bill [B 34 – 2006] (National
Assembly – sec 75)
(4) The JTM on 2 November 2006 in terms of Joint Rule 160(6)
classified the following Bill as a section 76 Bill:
a) Public Service Amendment Bill [B 31 – 2006] (National Assembly
Provinces – sec 76)
- Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159
(1) South African Airways Bill, 2006, submitted by the Minister for
Public Enterprises. Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Public
Enterprises and the Select Committee on Labour and Public
Enterprises.
National Council of Provinces
-
Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bill passed by Assembly and sent back to Council for concurrence (1) Bill amended and passed by National Assembly on 7 November 2006 and returned for concurrence:
a) Further Education and Colleges Bill [B 23D – 2006] (National Council of Provinces – sec 76). The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Education and Recreation of the National Council of Provinces.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
- The Minister of Arts and Culture
a) Report and Financial Statements of the Nelson Mandela National
Museum for 2005-2006, including the Report of the Auditor-General
on the Financial Statements for 2005-2006 [RP 192-2006].
b) Report and Financial Statements of the Robben Island Museum for
2005-2006, including the Report of the Auditor-General on the
Financial Statements for 2005-2006 [RP 217-2006].
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