National Assembly - 18 October 2007
THURSDAY, 18 OCTOBER 2007 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY
____
The House met at 14:00.
House Chairperson Mr K O Bapela took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Mr G R MORGAN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the DA on the next sitting day of the House:
That, noting the findings of the 2006 State of the Environment Report released on 28 June 2007, this House debates the contents of the report and the responses required to ensure the protection of our environment.
Thank you.
Mr C M LOWE: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move on behalf of the DA on the next sitting day of the House:
That the House debates the violation of the human rights of refugees in South Africa and the consequent need to establish refugee centres and transit camps on our borders.
2007 RUGBY WORLD CUP FINAL
(Draft Resolution)
Dr P W A MULDER: Voorsitter, ek stel hiermee sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Huis –
1) kennis neem dat –
(a) die eindstryd van die Wêreldrugbybekerkompetisie van 2007
eerskomende Saterdag in Parys, Frankryk, plaasvind; en
(b) die Springbokke elke wedstryd in die Wêreldrugbybekerkompetisie
sover gewen het;
2) eenparig sy ondersteuning en beste wense aan die Springbokke oordra;
en
3) die hoop uitspreek dat die Springbokke Saterdag gekroon sal word as
die Wêreldrugbybekerkampioene. (Translation of Afrikaans draft
resolution follows.)
[Dr P W A MULDER: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the House –
(1) notes that –
(a) the final of the 2007 Rugby World Cup competition takes place
this coming Saturday in Paris, France; and
(b) the Springboks have so far won every match in the Rugby World
Cup competition;
(2) unanimously conveys its support and best wishes to the Springboks; and
(3) expresses the hope that this Saturday the Springboks will be crowned as Rugby World Cup champions.]
[Applause.]
Mrs S A SEATON: Chairperson, are the DA and the FF Plus in alliance today? The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Noted, thank you.
Agreed to.
CONGRATULATIONS TO ERNIE ELS
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the House –
1) notes that Ernie Els won the HSBC World Matchplay Championship on
the West Course, Wentworth, Southern England, on Sunday, 14 October
2007;
2) further notes that this is his seventh victory in the final of the
World Matchplay Championship and the 24th of his career;
3) further recognises the important work he has done with regard to
identifying youth that show talent and potential in the game of golf
from underprivileged backgrounds through the Ernie Els and Fancourt
Foundation established in 1999; and
4) congratulates him not only on this victory but on being a true
inspiration to all South African sportspeople. Agreed to.
WORLD TEACHERS’ DAY
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the House –
1) notes that 5 October was World Teachers’ Day and that this day was
inaugurated in 1994 by the United Nations Educational, Scientific
and Cultural Organisation to commemorate the joint signing on 5
October 1966 of the Unesco/ILO Recommendation concerning the Status
of Teachers;
2) recalls that the celebration of World Teachers’ Day helps to promote
awareness, understanding and appreciation about the vital
contribution that teachers make to education and development;
3) further recalls that teachers are central in the struggle to realise
the goal of Education for All and the Millennium Development Goals,
and that the Millennium Development Goals commit governments to
provide a good quality education for all children by 2015;
4) recognises that the annual celebration of World Teachers’ Day on 5
October is an occasion to take stock of the work done and the
remaining challenges, as well as to consider the steps needed in
order to achieve high-quality teaching and learning for all; and
5) calls on all governments to consider the principles of the 1996 and
1997 Unesco/ILO recommendations for implementation.
Agreed to.
INTERNATIONAL DAY FOR THE ERADICATION OF POVERTY
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the House –
1) notes that 17 October is observed as the International Day for the
Eradication of Poverty;
2) further notes that the eradication of poverty and destitution in all
countries has become a priority for the world community;
3) recalls that Article 25 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights
declares that everyone has the right to a standard of living
adequate for the health and wellbeing of himself and his family,
including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary
social services, and it also proclaims the right to security in the
event of unemployment, sickness, disability, widowhood, old age or
other lack of livelihood in circumstances beyond one’s control;
4) recognises that the campaign to eradicate poverty is a major
contemporary challenge that requires the co-operation of
governments, business and civil society; and
5) calls on all governments to ensure adequate funding to meet the
social security and social development challenges facing their
peoples.
Agreed to.
ACCIDENT AT HARMONY GOLD ELANDSRAND GOLD MINE
(Draft Resolution) The CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the House –
(1) notes that on 3 October 2007 an accident occurred at the Harmony Gold Elandsrand gold mine, resulting in more than 3 000 mineworkers being trapped underground;
(2) recalls that all the mineworkers were rescued;
(3) commends Harmony Gold, the Elandsrand mine management, the Minister and Department of Minerals and Energy, the workers, trade unions, the rescue and the medical teams on working together to ensure that the thousands of workers were safely rescued;
(4) urges the government and all mining companies to comply with all the measures provided for in our laws to ensure the safety and health of mineworkers; and
(5) wishes the mineworkers well as they recover from the resultant trauma and psychological stress.
Agreed to.
KGALAGADI TRANSFRONTIER PARK
(Member’s Statement)
Ms M M NTULI (ANC): Thank you, Chair. The ANC recognises the importance of the tourism sector for job creation. The strategy to realise the potential of the tourism sector is government-led, private sector driven and community based.
On Friday, 12 October President Thabo Mbeki, President Festus Mogae of Botswana and Prof Hifikepunye Pohamba of Namibia opened an access facility in the Kgalagadi Park, which will enable tourists to travel easily between the three countries via shorter routes, without border control regulations.
The Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park, where the access facility is located, incorporates the Gemsbok National Park in Botswana and the Kalahari Gemsbok in South Africa. The Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park comprises an area of over 3,6 million hectares, which is one of the very few conservation areas of this magnitude left in the world. Our government demonstrates its commitment to the development of this industry, and has committed R395 million as investment into the development of infrastructure at this transfrontier park. This investment will lead to job creation in the region and further contribute to the existing efforts to integrate the SADC region into a strong regional economic bloc. I thank you. DAMAGE TO HARVESTS IN KLEIN KAROO DURING COLD SPELL
(Member’s Statement)
Mnr S E OPPERMAN (DA): Voorsitter, hierdie verklaring handel oor ’n dreigende ekonomiese krisis in dele van die Klein Karoo. Die negatiewe invloed wat hael, ryp en swartryp op landbouprodukte in die Klein Karoo het, hou ernstige implikasies in vir boere, plaaswerkers en sekondêre bedrywe, wat van hierdie produkte afhanklik is. In die Ladysmith-distrik is groot skade gely met tot 70-80 persent oesverlies. Daar is ongeveer 300 permanente en sowat 1000 seisoenale arbeiders wat in die komende vrugteseisoen sonder inkomste sal wees. In Ladysmith, Calitzdorp en ander gebiede soos Montagu is daar 20-100 persent oesverlies. In Grabouw en Bo- Matroosberg is daar ’n 100 persent oesverlies. Hierdie gebiede gaan almal gebuk onder die onlangse skade en hul inkomste is hoofsaaklik uit die landbou.
Dit is duidelik dat die gebiede wat hierdeur geraak word, kwalifiseer om as rampgebied verklaar te word. Die DA wil hiermee die regering versoek om in te gryp om die dreigende nood te help verlig. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)
[Mr S E OPPERMAN (DA): This declaration deals with a looming economic crisis in parts of the Klein Karoo. The negative impact wrought by hail, frost and black frost on agricultural products in the Klein Karoo has serious implications for farmers, farm workers and secondary industries that are dependent on these products. The Ladysmith area suffered massive damages with up to 70–80% of the harvest destroyed. Approximately 300 permanent and 1000 seasonal labourers will be without an income in the coming fruit season. Ladysmith, Calitzdorp and other areas like Montagu, have suffered a 20–100% loss of harvest. Grabouw and Bo-Matroosberg have suffered a 100% loss of harvest. These areas are suffering as a result of the recent damages and their incomes are primarily derived from agriculture.
It is clear that the areas that have been affected by this qualify to be declared disaster areas. The DA hereby requests government to intervene in order to alleviate this pressing need. I thank you.]
SADESMO WINS SRC ELECTIONS AT UNIVERSITY OF ZULULAND
(Member’s Statement)
Mr A M MPONTSHANE (IFP): Chairperson, the IFP would like to congratulate the SA Democratic Students’ Movement, Sadesmo, for winning all the seats on the SRC during the elections, held yesterday at the University of Zululand, Ongoye campus. Perhaps this is an indication of things to come. [Interjections.] It is a wake-up call to all those who thought that they would rule “until Jesus comes back”.
The IFP would also like to applaud the students of the University of Zululand for making the right choice by selecting a strong student organisation that is steeped in the culture of good governance to lead them on this campus. Sadesmo is an organisation that leads by example, that is committed to the battle for a proper and stable educational environment at all tertiary institutions, and is dedicated to building the reputation of the University of Zululand, unlike the actions of the previous student leadership body.
The IFP wishes Sadesmo well. We know that the university will grow from strength to strength under their leadership. I thank you. [Time expired.] [Applause.]
CONSTITUENCY STATEMENT
(Member’s Statement)
Ms C NKUNA (ANC): Thank you, Chairperson.
Ke a leboga Modulasetilo. Re le mokgatlho wa ANC ga re letlelele batho ba ba itseelang molao mo matsogong, gonne re tshegetsa bosiamisi mo bathong botlhe ka go lekana. Tiragalo e e diragetseng kwa Northam, moo Bongani a neng a swa loso le le botlhoko, ka go fisiwa go fitlhela a neela mowa ke maloko a baagi, a a neng a galefile, mme are o bantsha mo matlong a bona a RDP, mme morago ga moo o rekisa batho ba bang matlo ao, gonne bona ba sa duelle ditirelo. Morago ga moo, o boela a ntsha bareki bao ba ba ntšhwa ka mo matlong, a ba rekisetsa matlo ao moreki o mong gape ka tlhwatlhwa e kwa godimo. Meiyara o ne a kgalema thatha gore a emise go dira jalo gonne go se mo molaong, ebile e se leloko la masepala la semmuso. Motswasetlhabelo wa bofelo o ne a gana go tswa mo ntlong, ke gone fa ntwa e neng ya simolola teng foo, mme baagi ba bang ba e tsena ntwa eo. Ditiragalo tse di jaana di ne tsa kgadiwa ke maphodisa, mme ebile ba ne ba romela mophodisa a mang mo lefelong leo gore ba tle ba tlisa kagiso mo teng. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)
[Thank you, Chairperson. The ANC does not support people who take the law into their own hands, because we support equal justice for all. I want to refer here to the incident which took place in Northam, whereby Bongani died a painful death after being burned to death by an angry group of residents. They accused him of forcefully removing them from their RDP houses and selling the houses to other people because they were not paying for services. He also removed the very same new buyers from the houses and sold their houses to other new buyers at a much higher price.
The mayor strongly warned him to stop doing that because it was illegal to do so and he was not officially a municipality council member.
The last victim refused to vacate the house and when the fight broke out, other residents ultimately joined the fight. Such incidences were condemned by the police and some members of the police were sent to the scene to restore calm.]
NONPAYMENT OF SALARY INCREASES FOR MPs
(Member’s Statement)
Mr J BICI (UDM): Thank you, Chairperson. The UDM is disappointed by the I- don’t-care attitude with which Members of Parliament are treated by whomsoever. It is worrying that Members of Parliament should have had salary increases as far back as 1 April 2007 but up to now nothing is forthcoming. Members of Parliament, like any other citizens of this country, have financial obligations to fulfil. Members of Parliament, like everybody else, feel the pinch of rising prices. Members of Parliament, because they are hon members, keep quiet though the pain is ravaging them.
Nobody seems to know what is happening and who should make it happen. It is a shame that an institution such as this august House can be in arrears when it comes to payment of the salaries of its workers. If there are any documents still to be signed by the President in connection with MPs’ salaries, I humbly request him to sign them before flying out to France.
Will these salary increases perhaps be taken care of after the December congress in Limpopo? If so, it might be too late for some of us. [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Order! Thank you, hon member. I know this is a favourite subject of MPs.
DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(Member’s Statement)
Mnr P J GROENEWALD (FF PLUS): Voorsitter, die Adjunkminister van Landbou en Grondsake, Dirk du Toit, maak nou ’n gewoonte daarvan om die boere te beledig. Sy herhaalde opmerkings dat boere hulle plaaswerkers sleg behandel en sy dreigemente dat boere as gevolg daarvan onteien gaan word, verhoog emosies en stig geweld aan.
Daar kan geargumenteer word dat hierdie opmerkings van die Adjunkminister neerkom op haatspraak wat deur die Grondwet verbied word. Hierdie opmerkings kan gemeenskappe aanmoedig om geweld te gebruik om grond te beset. ’n Goeie voorbeeld is waar ’n boer in KwaZulu-Natal drie weke tyd gegun is om sy plaas te ontruim, anders sal gedwonge besetting daarvan plaasvind.
Die werklikheid is dat feitlik alle boere hul plaaswerkers goed behandel en goeie menseverhoudings met hulle het. Die Adjunkminister se opmerkings veroorsaak egter polarisasie, wat tot nadeel is van die hele Suid-Afrika. Die VF Plus doen daarom ’n beroep op die Adjunkminister om hierdie optrede te staak. Hy is ook ’n apologie aan die landbougemeenskap verskuldig. Dankie. (Translation of Afrikaans member’s statement follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD (FF PLUS): Chairperson, the Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Land Affairs, Dirk du Toit, has made a habit of insulting farmers. His repeated remarks that farmers treat their workers badly, and his threats that farmers will lose their farms, heighten emotions and foment violence. It could be argued that these remarks by the Deputy Minister amount to hate-speech, which is prohibited by the Constitution. These remarks could encourage communities to resort to violence in order to occupy land. A good example of this is the case of a farmer in KwaZulu- Natal who was given three weeks to vacate his farm, failing which, it would be expropriated and occupied.
The reality is that practically all farmers treat their workers properly and have good human relations with them. The Deputy Minister’s remarks cause polarisation, however, and this is to the detriment of the entire South Africa. The FF Plus therefore calls on the Deputy Minister to stop this behaviour. He also owes the agricultural community an apology. Thank you.]
LAND REFORM PROGRAMME RESTITUTION AND LAND
(Member’s Statement)
Mr S ABRAM (ANC): Chairperson, the National Land Reform Programme is the central and driving force of a programme of rural development. Such a programme aims to address effectively the injustices of forced removals and the historical denial of access to land. It is also aimed at the security of tenure for rural people.
The ANC welcomes the announcement made by the government that it will start a land and agricultural reform project aimed at agrarian reform and fast- tracking land acquisitions. The new programme is aimed at supplementing the current one and not at replacing it. It seeks to make a contribution to the government’s 2014 objective of halving poverty by 50% and to contribute to reaching a 6% economic growth rate through the creation of six million new jobs through land reform and increased production.
These measures will contribute towards the revitalisation of rural economies while simultaneously addressing rural stagnation. It further provides the opportunity to breathe new life into rural towns and increase the prospects for such towns to become sustainable.
Finally, the ANC calls on all stakeholders and participants in the programme to work tirelessly together to realise the objective of a better life for all our people. I thank you.
IMPORTANCE OF FAIR EXAMINATIONS FOR GRADE 12 LEARNERS
(Member’s Statement)
Mr I S MFUNDISI (UCDP): Chairperson, the Grade 12 final examinations have so far gone on without any serious glitches. It is the isolated instance of the “ghost candidates” caught in the act that has threatened to compromise the integrity of the examination. It is unfortunate that there are still some individuals who impersonate others and pretend to be candidates and sit for the examination – as has been the case in KwaZulu-Natal.
The worst is when, as in the Western Cape, some use their computers to pretend to have genuine question papers that they want to sell to unsuspecting students. We commend the officials who were alert and brought this to light before the rot took root. The UCDP would like to encourage all parties concerned with these examinations to do their utmost to present a good examination. The national Department of Education and the provincial ones should close ranks and deliver scandal-free examinations, and hopefully even results.
It is this dishonesty that the nation has to rise against. Cheating, in whatever form or for whatever reason, has never been justifiable. Our young people should learn to work hard for success. We applaud the finding by the full Bench of the Pretoria High Court that made it abundantly clear that education has to be accessible to all children of this nation, regardless of their linguistic, cultural or domestic background. With the doors of education being opened to all, it is incumbent upon our children to be prepared to learn and fight against all artificial hurdles put in the way of their educational pursuit. Thank you.
MERIT RATHER THAN RACE IN SOUTH AFRICAN SOCIETY
(Member’s Statement)
Mnr S SIMMONS (NA): Voorsitter, ek wil die Huis se aandag vestig op die debat van die portefeulje oor landbou en grondsake. Ek wil die agb Salaam Abram loof vir sy standpunt teen die nou reeds, na my mening, ’n obsessie van sy ANC-kamerade met ras. Ek wil verder gaan, Voorsitter, en die agb Abram daarop wys dat die rasse-obsessie nie net uit enkele areas van die samelewing verwyder moet word nie, maar dat dit konsekwent op alle vlakke toegepas word. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.) [Mr S SIMMONS (NA): Chairperson, I would like to focus the House’s attention on the debate of the portfolio committee on agriculture and land affairs. I want to commend the hon Salaam Abram on his stand against, according to me, the already current obsession with race by his ANC- comrades. Further, Chairperson, I want to tell the hon Abram that this obsession with race should not just be removed from certain spheres of society but the removal should be consequently implemented on al levels.]
It would appear that the hon Khompela and Frolick would this weekend experience that nation-building and cohesion do not require quotas, but rather commitment and dedication. Further, Chairperson, ordinary South Africans are currently moving much faster to the acceptance of merit over race than policy-makers in this House.
Voorsitter, ek het die afgelope twee jaar reeds probeer pleit dat die wyse waarop ras in die Wet op Gelyke Indiensneming prominensie en prioriteit geniet, verander moet word. Ek sou graag wou sien dat ANC-lede soos die agb Abram, wat duidelik ’n sterk afkeur in rasseklassifikasie het, sy stem sal laat hoor teen ras as maatstaf op alle gebiede van die samelewing. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)
[Chairperson, I have, for the last two years, implored that the manner in which race enjoys prominence and priority in the Employment Equity Act, should be changed. I would dearly like to see that ANC members like hon Abram, who clearly disapproves of race classification, speak out against race as yardstick in all spheres of society.]
Finally, Chair, the NA and the rest of South Africa wish to bid our nonracial Springbok team good luck for Saturday – nonracial because, as Springbok team manager Xola Yeye rightfully points out, and I quote: “This team is not customised for any kind of race group within our society.” I thank you.
Prof B TUROK: Chairperson, on a point of order: Is it in order for one member to be an alliance in this House? [Laughter.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W M Skhosana): Order, hon members! Thank you. The DA can continue.
ECONOMIC CRIME IS A BINDING CONSTRAINT ON THE SOUTH AFRICAN ECONOMY
(Member’s Statement)
Dr P J RABIE (DA): Chairman, crime should be the seventh binding constraint to growth under Asgisa. The incidence of economic crime in South Africa is about 200% higher than the international average and about 110% higher than in 2005.
This was found by PriceWaterhouseCoopers in their biannual global economic crime survey, which for this year shows that South Africa has the highest number of companies affected by economic crime in the world. The South African economy is estimated to have lost R600 million over the last two years due to economic crimes such as asset misappropriation, money laundering, bribery and fraud, to which 72% of local firms have fallen prey.
These statistics indicate that crime very definitely hampers the growth of our economy. The DA therefore renews its call on the government to recognise this by adding crime as a seventh binding constraint to economic growth under Asgisa. Chairperson, I thank you.
LABORATORY FACILITIES OF THE MEDICAL RESEARCH COUNCIL
(Member’s Statement)
Ms B T NGCOBO (ANC): Chairperson, the Portfolio Committee on Science and Technology visited the Medical Research Council, its state-of-the-art laboratories and medical gardens, and observed the analytical and quality assurance of medicinal plants. Adjacent to the laboratory are herbal formulation and manufacturing facilities with state-of-the-art equipment to do research and manufacture of herbal products in an environment meeting international standards.
The school outreach programme is committed to educating communities and bringing science back to villages. It further educates pupils about their traditional knowledge and to value such knowledge. This is done in conjunction with the promotion of science weeks. The student exchange and internship programme is intended to mentor students in research and development of traditional medicine.
With regard to exchange programmes for scientific students and technicians, universities and industries are encouraged to spend time at these facilities. In responding to the call of the Deputy President for increasing the number of black scientists, benefits for the country include human capital, producing 50 graduates per annum, improvement of the economy through the knowledge of indigenous knowledge systems, tourism because of our biodiversity and biological wealth, improvement in disease management of diseases such as HIV, malaria, diabetes and others, and close links with African countries doing similar work in response to Nepad. However, there are challenges … [Time expired.] [Applause.]
COMBATING CABLE THEFT
(Member’s Statement)
Mr H J BEKKER (IFP): Mr Chairman, the IFP has taken a leading role in the combating of cable theft. We have previously expressed our concern about the alarming rate of cable theft in our country. With regard to cable theft and copper theft, it would seem that minimal amendments to existing legislation are needed in order to combat these acts of sabotage for personal gain.
It would however require a major shift in political will and in that of the judiciary to enforce the law properly. Similarly, proposed legislation in the form of existing Bills to be introduced in this House would assist further to criminalise dealers in second-hand copper and other precious metals. The IFP calls on government and this House to expedite these necessary Bills and to assist in ridding our country of this scourge of destruction, sabotage and self-enrichment.
At this time, I also want to inform the House that I intend tabling a Private Member’s Bill shortly, which will contain an amendment to improve existing legislation in order to combat this scourge. I thank you.
TRINATIONAL TRADE INITIATIVE
(Member’s Statement)
Dr A N LUTHULI (ANC): Thank you, Chair. One of the cornerstones of South Africa’s foreign policy is putting African interests at the heart of our international relations programme. Our national liberation struggle has always been underpinned by international solidarity with the African people in particular and the oppressed in general.
The trilateral development initiative between India, Brazil and South Africa entrenches south-south co-operation. The IBSA Dialogue Forum was initiated and launched in 2003. Amongst its broad objectives, IBSA aims to promote south-south dialogue, co-operation and common positions on issues of international importance; promote trade and investment opportunities between three regions; and promote international poverty alleviation and social development. The ANC commends the initiative taken by the three governments in their efforts to create a better world. I thank you. [Applause.]
PERLEMOEN POACHING
(Member’s Statement)
Mr G R MORGAN (DA): Chair, the poaching of perlemoen remains a serious problem that requires urgent attention from the Ministers of Environmental Affairs and of Safety and Security. Preventing poaching is not just about protecting a valuable environmental resource. Poaching affects the social cohesion of many coastal communities as it is linked to organised crime, most notably the drug trade.
The director-general of Environmental Affairs informed the portfolio committee this week that the issue of perlemoen had been taken to Cabinet. As regulation of this fishery is the domain of the Minister of Environmental Affairs, it is evident that the Minister is seeking support from Cabinet on an important policy decision. As the announcement of the total allowable catch for the perlemoen fishery is imminent, the DA urges the Minister not to close the entire fishery down. In those zones of the fishery that have been closed over the past two years, there has been no associated decrease in poaching.
If the fishery is closed, the Minister will lose the co-operation of legal rights holders, the very people who have an interest in protecting the resource. Currently, for every legal ton of perlemoen removed from the sea, 8 tons are taken illegally. The DA trusts that instead of closing the fishery, the government will redouble its efforts to curb poaching at the source.
A meaningful increase in the number of enforcement officials and small craft vessels that can be launched from the sea and a reintroduction of the highly successful environmental court by the Department of Justice are steps that should be taken. Further, government must enter into constructive and genuine co-management of the resource with all legal rights holders. I thank you.
PLAN TO IMPROVE FREEWAYS AND OTHER TRANSPORT SYSTEMS IN GAUTENG
(Member’s Statement)
Mr G D SCHNEEMANN (ANC): Chairperson, the ANC-led government is committed to the development of an efficient transport network, including rail and roads, in ways that ensure social integration and reduce the cost of transporting food and other goods.
The government recently unveiled a comprehensive plan to improve freeways and other transport systems in Gauteng in order to deal with the increase in traffic flow on the province’s freeways. An amount of R22 billion will be spent on the project. The plan is aimed at upgrading the province’s freeways by increasing lanes and making provision targeted at public transport vehicles through the use of dedicated lanes for public transport vehicles and other vehicles with three or more passengers.
The ANC-led government is committed to working with all stakeholders in efforts to provide co-ordinated, safe and affordable public transport for all, in pursuit of the goal of a better life for all. I thank you.
KGALAGADI TRANSFRONTIER PARK
MERIT RATHER THAN RACE IN SOUTH AFRICAN SOCIETY
(Minister’s Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Chairperson, the opening of the Kgalagadi Transfrontier Park underscores the relationship between development and migration. It emphasises the perspective that, whilst not neglecting national security, international migration must be viewed as a vehicle for development.
It brings us closer to the day when we shall achieve the goal of the free movement of people in our region. It also vindicates the progressive perspective that seeks to regulate migration, rather than the reactionary notion that it must be controlled or even combated.
Secondly, I would like to respond to the statement made by the single member of the NA. After the Springboks have won the Rugby World Cup on Saturday - as they will - they will return to a nation that is unwavering in its demand for transformation and representivity. We cannot relent until the Springbok team is representative. Merit does not mean white only. Surely, if this is what the hon member of the NA – the one member – wants us, by crook, to believe, he is dreaming.
Until this team is fully representative, we will not go back on our commitment to ensure that all South Africans are properly represented, not only in the national teams, but also in the programmes to develop black players in our country. We should ensure that, at all levels, whether it’s in the Six Nations or the Tri-Nations or whatever other tournament, black people with the talent and the merit have a right to be part of the Springbok team and represent their country. Thank you. [Applause.]
DAMAGE TO HARVESTS IN KLEIN KAROO DURING COLD SPELL
LAND REFORM PROGRAMME AND LAND RESTITUTION
GOVERNMENT TO CONSIDER REPORT OF PANEL OF EXPERTS
DEPUTY MINISTER OF AGRICULTURE
(Minister’s Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: Chairperson, I thought you were calling upon the Deputy Minister of Arts and Culture to come and respond. It is quite an art to be in agriculture, sir. [Laughter.]
Firstly, on the motion of the DA regarding the cold spell, government wishes to express its sympathy for the losses suffered. We are especially worried about labour’s position on those fruit farms. Of course, the right procedures have to be followed in order for a disaster to be declared. The requests have to be made through the province and the Department of Provincial and Local Government.
Farming is tough, and I really mean that. It’s even tougher to work in the Ministry of Agriculture and Land Affairs.
Secondly, I would like to comment on Mr Abram’s very interesting contribution. You must understand the difference between the land reform programme and the restitution programme. At the moment, most of the energy and the budget are spent on restitution, and we are doing extremely well.
In a well-capacitated country such as Canada, it normally takes between 13 and 15 years to complete one claim. Here we have to deal with a lot of claims. It’s very tough, and very difficult decisions have to be made. The negotiations are difficult and the competent attorneys who represent the people are just as tough.
At the moment there is an initiative to develop a project management unit that will take greater care of the co-ordination required for land reform projects. Land reform forms a matrix of all rural development programmes. All aspects of development converge in and make up land reform projects.
I believe I have forgotten the name of the member for UPSA. [Laughter.] I have not kept up to date with developments in that party. All I can say is that the report by the panel of experts has now been taken for discussion. From government’s side, we will listen carefully to all the inputs that will be made.
My friends from the FF Plus are very worried about me stirring up their emotions. Well, there is nothing wrong with that. We are talking to the unions all the time. In fact, you see, what sometimes bothers me - by the way, an hon member said something about hate speech and so on. Well, I haven’t heard anything about it from anyone. Just send me a piece of paper in that regard, if you have a problem.
You see, I don’t think that members of the FF Plus are the foremost thinkers in Afrikaans circles - you must never think that.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr K O Bapela): Deputy Minister, if you could please wrap up, because you have already …
The DEPUTY MINISTER FOR AGRICULTURE AND LAND AFFAIRS: There are four questions I’m responding to, and I’m just wrapping up on the last one.
Ek dink die voorste denker in Afrikaans in Suid-Afrika op die oomblik is Deon Maas. [I think the most prominent thinker in Afrikaans at this stage is Deon Maas.]
The problem is that some people, who are discoursing politically correctly, are acting politically incorrectly. I value institutions such as TAU, the Transvaal Agricultural Union, much more, because they talk politically incorrectly and they act politically incorrectly. Thank you. [Laughter.]
IMPORTANCE OF FAIR EXAMINATIONS FOR GRADE 12 LEARNERS
(Minister’s Response)
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Chairperson, I have two responses. The first one is in relation to the conduct of examinations. I think we can take pride as a country in the fact that we have managed credible and legitimate examinations. This is directly as a result of interventions that have been made by the Department of Education in terms of rigorous application in ensuring that our examinations are credible, well-managed and overseen. The national department, as well as the provincial departments, have taken rigorous steps to ensure that there is no corruption in the issue of examinations. This deals with a range of issues, the securing of examination papers, the invigilation, and the examination itself. I think we must take pride in the fact that we have done extremely well.
This year we can celebrate the fact that there are 599 000 learners that are writing the exams. It is the highest number of learners that are writing matric, and we do wish them well. We also take note of the fact that there were ghost writers for the Abet examination, and we thank the invigilators for their vigilance in terms of detecting them. The fact that there are 599 000 learners writing and we have not detected any transgression says a lot about our system, and I think we can celebrate that as South Africans.
Secondly, with regard to the other statement, indeed indigenous knowledge systems are critical and central to our scientific endeavours. The Department of Education has located the indigenous knowledge system within the curriculum of our schools, given our biodiversity and the huge potential in terms of traditional medicines. The Department of Education works very closely with the Department of Science and Technology and the Department of Health in promoting indigenous knowledge, particularly with regard to traditional medicines. This collaboration is in fact yielding good results and we can take pride in the fact that research and innovation is indeed taking place in our country and that we are on a rapid path to making huge contributions in the fields of medicine and biodiversity. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
KGALAGADI TRANSFRONTIER PARKS, TRINATIONAL TRADE INITIATIVE DAMAGE TO HARVESTS IN KLEIN KAROO DURING COLD
SPELL
PERLEMOEN POACHING
(Minister’s Response)
The MINISTER OF ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS AND TOURISM: Speaker, I would like to respond to Mr Maluleke on transfrontier parks, Dr Luthuli, Mr Opperman, and also Mr Morgan on perlemoen poaching.
With regard to the transfrontier parks, the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs responded to a part of that statement. Let me just say, with regard to the importance of transfrontier parks, that they are very important, not only to conserve biodiversity, but also to ensure economic momentum to local economies. That is why, in enlarging these parks, erecting fences and building roads we are making use of smaller, local operators, so that people around these parks can really feel that they share in the benefits of these parks.
We must also never forget that initially we called these transfrontier parks “peace parks”, because in our region, where we had a lot of conflict and destabilisation, these parks were practical mechanisms to ensure co- operation between the different countries in the region. We are working hard to ensure that, as the SADC, we have one visa, a univisa, in place for 2010, and opening a new border post will assist the movement and the flow of people, as the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs said. The opening of this border post will shorten the route between Johannesburg and Windhoek by 300 kilometres, so people do not have to go through Twee Rivieren border post, way down to the south, but up at Mata Mata.
I can also say that we are exporting this concept of transfrontier parks now. We here in Africa are the architects of that concept and the Peace Parks Foundation in South Africa is supporting North Korea and South Korea to establish, hopefully, a transfrontier park in the demilitarised zone between North and South Korea which, from an environmental point of view, is still a very pristine area.
Then with regard to the statement about the India, Brazil and South Africa initiative, we appreciate that statement by Dr Luthuli, and I would also like to convey our appreciation to Parliament for participating in that Ibsa event. More and more we see that Parliament is establishing a profile on the international scene, and the active involvement by Parliament, as well as civil society, in the Ibsa activities was quite a positive development.
Because of limited time let me just respond to two issues discussed and raised there. The first one was on trade. Ibsa has a target of US$15 billion by 2010 in terms of trade between the three partners, India, Brazil and South Africa, but we have committed ourselves actually to exceed that target, and the business community was part of that discussion. The other issue that was discussed was the issue of technology exchange and transfer between the three countries on non-polluting and sustainable safe energy, and from our portfolio’s perspective that is a very good development.
The Deputy Minister of Agriculture dealt briefly with the issue that Mr Opperman raised of the short-term intervention. But I would like to say to the hon member and to the House that that is exactly what we predicted, that the weather patterns in this country will change. These events are not once-off events. We know now, based on the research that we released last year, that from the eastern side of the country we will see over the short term quite a substantial change in weather patterns, more cold fronts, and more rain. Then from the west we will see much drier and longer dry spells. We predicted that, over the next 25 years, if we don’t do something we will see a decline of 20% in our maize production, which for a developing country is quite something. Therefore, the Department of Agriculture was requested to start assisting farmers with advice on crop switching, etc.
The last issue is the one raised by hon member Morgan on perlemoen poaching. Let me say to the hon member: of course we hear his request, and it would be improper now to enter into a discussion while Cabinet is still considering the executive’s position on that, but I have warned over the past two years, when we announced the tag at the beginning of November, that we are considering closing this fishery, and it will be nothing new in the country if we take that decision. If we take that decision, it is not one that we will easily take. We are looking at all the options now and we will then take a decision. But this fishery is in serious trouble, inter alia, for the reasons the hon member advanced. Thank you. [Applause.]
ALLEGATIONS AGAINST MINISTER OF HEALTH
(Draft Resolution)
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, I move the motion printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:
That the House –
1) notes that the Minister of Health was convicted of theft in 1976 or
thereabouts while employed at the Athlone Hospital in Botswana; and
2) resolves that an ad hoc committee be appointed to investigate
whether she is fit to hold public office.
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, the motion notes that the Minister of Health was convicted of theft in 1976, or thereabouts, while employed at the Athlone Hospital in Botswana. I do not intend to dwell on any of the as-yet-undisputed facts about her past that have been revealed or on any of the personal issues related to the Minister’s health. These allegations, on their own, however, are of such a serious nature that one would have expected the immediate resignation of the Minister as the only honourable response. This has not happened and for the present the matter remains between the Minister and her conscience.
What this House has to resolve is whether an ad hoc committee must be appointed to investigate whether the Minister of Health is fit to hold office. The Secretary of the National Assembly has informed us that members should confine their inputs to this question and not to the merits of the case, but for us to do this it is at least necessary to consider the state of health of South African citizens as well as the state of the Department of Health and what trends, if any, are to be observed in both instances, in particular whether the department’s approach to HIV and Aids can be defended even though it has cost the lives of tens of thousands of citizens of South Africa by delaying the roll-out of specifically registered medicine while supporting quack remedies and practitioners.
Numerous voices across political boundaries, nationally and internationally, have persistently raised these questions either in the public domain or in private appeals or directly to the President. As far back as 2002 UN representatives in Mongolia quizzed me about this issue in total disbelief. All are motivated by genuine concern for the health of the nation and in particular for those, the 40% living in dire poverty, to whom the state owes its major consideration - patients unable to access the excellent private health care facilities of the country. The stated yardsticks against which to measure performance established by international practice over a very long period is life expectancy, infant mortality, the maternal death rate and the incidents of treatable or curable diseases.
Let me highlight a few of the salient facts of our national state of health: Since 1999 there has been a dramatic and continual increase in infant mortality. As a matter of fact, more infants and children under five now die than at any other time in recorded South African history. We are one of only nine countries in the world where the child mortality rate is increasing rather than decreasing. The number of children infected through mother-to-child HIV transmissions was estimated to be over 60 000 in 2005. These high numbers persist despite a Constitutional Court order, five years ago, to implement a national programme to prevent mother-to-child transmission during which the court said “the Minister evinces a deplorable lack of respect for the Supreme Court of Appeal”.
At Frere Hospital 2 000 babies have been stillborn in the past 13 years, reflecting a prenatal mortality rate in South Africa as high as 27,9 per 1 000 live births nationally. Since 1999 the maternal death rate has almost doubled. We also see a significant rise in the general death rate among adults. The death rate among women aged 20 through 39 have increased more that threefold and more than doubled for men aged 30 through 40 – people cut down in the prime of their lives.
South Africa lives with the eighth highest TB burden in the world. Between 1995 and 2004 TB increased by 268% in South Africa. Little more than 50% are cured. This cure rate falls 30% short of the World Health Organisation targets. Seven hospitals in KwaZulu-Natal have been without a single doctor for two years or more and only 15 of the province’s 64 hospitals have more than half the number of doctors they need. There are approximately 42 000 vacant public sector nursing posts. The number of enrolled nurses has dropped from 60 per 100 000 public sector users in 2000 to 52 per 100 000 public sector users in 2005. Can there be any doubt that an ad hoc committee is needed to probe the merits of the case before us?
Over the past five years there have been progressive closures and cuts in the major services at teaching hospitals. Before the cuts there were already substantial delays in services, which meant that patients referred upward from primary and secondary institutions had unduly long waiting periods. As the patients concerned are all from the lower socioeconomic groups, delayed treatment for cancer, for example breast cancer, means more opportunity for the cancer to spread. Joint replacements take up to three and a half years and cardiac bypass surgery six weeks. These delays require more complex and expensive treatment when the patient eventually reaches tertiary care. In contrast, those with medical provision, giving them access to private health care, including Members of Parliament, are treated within days of diagnosis by the excellent facilities in private hospitals.
Over a four-year period the Western Cape Province has cut down the number of health professionals and support personnel by 9 000, hospital beds by 24% and in-patient days in hospital by half a million, despite increasing population growth and escalating HIV/Aids prevalence estimated to have pushed the need for countrywide HIV-related bed days to 15 million in 2006
- not that the cuts at tertiary level motivated by the need for expanded primary care have led to improvements at primary level. There are serious staff shortages and cuts in primary care as well. Where is the money going? The problem certainly does not lie with Treasury, but the national Department of Health has received three qualified audits in the last four financial years.
The most extraordinary feature of our health scene for the past five years has been the impact of the Aids pandemic. At present there are more than 700 000 people in South Africa with HIV needing ARV treatment. A thousand per day die and a thousand further are newly infected. Fewer than 180 000 people are on treatment in the public health sector according to the Department of Health. What will happen to the rest if they are not helped by the private sector? They will die.
Instead of leading by example, South Africa is ranked 11th in Africa for the proportion of people on treatment as opposed to the number requiring it, despite the fact that we have the highest incidence of Aids infections on the continent. Health care workers despair about the government’s failure to provide clear treatment guidelines. Due to a ten-year delay in restructuring the Medicines Control Council, the time taken to approve medicines in South Africa is four times longer than the international average. The person responsible for all this is the present Minister of Health who has been in office for eight years.
It is up to the proposed committee to establish the Minister’s fitness to hold office, when measured against this background and the legally defined rationality test on the conduct of public power. The President has not acted. It is now up to us to do the right thing. Colleagues, appoint the committee. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr L V J NGCULU: Madam Speaker, it was quite an irony to watch the Leader of the Opposition here wearing a Springbok jersey … [Interjections.] … aimed, purportedly, at uniting the country, yet she has the temerity to stand at this podium to spew fire that divides and will divide this country. [Interjections.]
It indeed reminds me of a very good Afrikaans idiom that says:
Al dra ’n aap ’n goue ring, hy is en bly ’n lelike ding. [Fine feathers don’t make fine birds.]
You can actually see that. [Applause.]
Once again we are being treated to, and requested to join, the theatrics of the DA, who have mastered the art of traders in negatives and hollow injury to the characters of members from the ranks of the ANC and the progressive forces. I have listened very attentively to what hon Sandra Botha was saying. She does not address the motion at hand. She is beginning to address issues that are irrelevant, issues pertaining to health, and so on. She simply forgot about the motion at hand. We are therefore requested here to pass a motion that is designed to despise and embarrass one of us, a person who has been uncompromising in the fight for better health for our people. Put crudely, we are being requested to allow one of us to be savaged by hyenas in the garb of the DA, the leader of the right wing in our country. [Applause.]
We in the ANC are aware that the DA is raising this motion in order to undermine the integrity of the Minister, and to injure her dignity and standing in our country and the world. [Applause.] It is equally designed to undermine the progress government is making in improving the health of our population. Therefore, we believe that this motion is opportunistic, irrelevant and, most importantly, unconstitutional.
For instance, section 47(1) of our Constitution states that:
Every citizen who is qualified to vote for the National Assembly is eligible to be a member of the Assembly, except … (e) anyone who, after this section took effect, is convicted of an offence and sentenced to more than 12 months imprisonment without the option of a fine, either in the Republic, or outside the Republic if the conduct constituting the offence would have been an offence in the Republic … A disqualification under this paragraph ends five years after the sentence has been completed.
Any member of this House is eligible for appointment to the executive. The President may elect such members as Ministers, from amongst the members of this Assembly.
Therefore, to state the obvious, the Portfolio Committee on Health has a mandate to assess progress in the implementation of health programmes and we therefore do not need any ad hoc committee to take over this particular function. [Interjections.] On these grounds, Madam Speaker, I strongly urge this House to resolve that the motion by the DA is unconstitutional and irrelevant to the business of this House.
We in the ANC and the rest of the people of this country who are less privileged than our colleagues in the DA appreciate the role played by the Minister of Health in the fight against white minority rule and the development of this country. [Interjections.] In particular, we value her sterling role in the arena of health, spanning many decades, from the time at Muhumbili Hospital in Tanzania, to Lobatse in Botswana, the camps in Angola, Solomon Mahlangu Freedom College in Morogoro and in a free and liberated South Africa. [Interjections.]
How can we today be told by those who cheered our oppression and dispossession to disown Comrade Manto? Also given the frivolity and opportunism of the motion, this should never be allowed.
Of course, those in the ranks of the DA will never understand why the ANC should defend its own comrades in the face of the onslaught by reactionary forces and the entrepreneurs of doom and bad.
We watched in this House, with awe and anguish, the despicable and condemnable behaviour of the hon member Waters. It was to many of us a stark reminder of how young white kids were brought up under apartheid, where respect was accorded to those of their own ilk … [Applause.] … while our mothers and fathers were called “girls” and “boys” by these kids. [Interjections.]
The hon Waters brought to me, and I am sure to many of us, an eerie reminder, like a pound hammer disturbing a mother with a migraine. The spirit of ubuntu was thrown out of the window and the health condition of the Minister meant nothing but, like sadists in Bolivia torturing Che Guevara, they are slowly torturing her for service to our people.
One recalls the words of our President when he said:
There are some, at home and abroad, who did nothing or very little to contribute to the immensely difficult and costly struggle to achieve our liberation, [who] have chosen to sit as judges over who [Manto Tshabalala- Msimang] is, what she has done for the welfare of our nation, and what she represents, today, with regard to the pursuit of the goal of a better life for all our people.
The DA is definitely one of these. The hon Mike Waters and his colleagues in the DA today want this House to appoint them to an ad hoc committee to serve as judges as to who Comrade Manto is and what she is doing for the welfare of our people, when they themselves have already stood here, and went to the media and to the public to judge and condemn her.
Indeed, once again, this is an irrelevant motion, Madam Speaker, which cannot be allowed. [Interjections.] I therefore urge this House to reject this motion, as it will not bring any benefit to the business of this House and its decorum. Madam Speaker, we from the ranks of the ANC urge you to evince this motion from your books. Reject it for it has no place in this House.
We would rather request that this House expresses its confidence in the Minister … [interjections.] … and wish her well. [Interjections.] In fact, listening to the shrill and squeaking voices from the ranks on my left, one is not surprised that this motion is brought by them. They have no interest to progress, no interest in the wellbeing of our people, who are of no interest to the haves. Yet the scolding, the uncouth behaviour and the backward behaviour is indicative of the “Doomsday Alliance”.
I therefore move as an amendment to the motion:
To omit all the words after “That” and to substitute:
the House –
(1) is of the view that there is no merit in appointing an ad hoc committee; and
(2) has full confidence in the Minister of Health.
I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, I am really surprised at the ANC member’s speech. He is saying that the DA does not have the right to criticise. What has happened to free speech in this country and the right to criticise? [Interjections.] The hon Botha stood here and she criticised the Minister for her failings, and we in the IFP agreed with many of those criticisms. But the Speaker … [Interjections.] Yes, sure, I agree with the Minister of Correctional Services. He also agrees with the failings of the Minister of Health! Ten out of ten for you, Minister! [Interjections.] The hon member of the ANC said that the motion was unconstitutional. That is absolute nonsense. [Interjections.] He never addressed the DA’s motion. He never addressed the list of failings. He just mumbled on and tried to insult them. [Applause.]
Let me say, he apparently referred to himself when he spoke of “’n aap”. He said:
Al dra ’n aap ’n goue ring, hy is en bly ’n lelike ding. [Fine feathers don’t make fine birds.]
He said that of the hon Sandra. I want to say you may be “’n aap” [a monkey], Sandra, but you are beautiful. [Interjections.]
Dula fatshe o kwale molomo monna! Tsamaya o lo hlatshwa dijana wena! [Sit down and be quiet, man! Go and wash the dishes!]
I was amazed when the hon Botha presented her speech, because she didn’t speak to her motion. The motion says:
That the House –
1) notes that the Minister of Health was convicted of theft in 1976 or
thereabouts while employed at the Athlone Hospital in Botswana ...
But you didn’t speak to that. In other words, the motion is based on the private life of the Minister, and we are against that. We feel that there is a dividing line between one’s public life and one’s private life. Therefore, we will not support this, because the motion deals with the private life of the Minister, and we don’t want to be involved in that.
But what the hon Botha did was to make out a good case about the failings of the Minister, a lot of which we can agree with. But that is not your motion. [Interjections.] Your motion is based on the theft of 1976.
What we are saying is that the event that is on the Order Paper occurred some 30 years ago and we don’t want to be involved in that private affair of the Minister, and we will not support the motion. [Applause.]
Mr L W GREYLING: Madam Speaker, the ID is less concerned with what the Minister did some 30 years ago than with what she is doing now. The issue of whether she is fit to hold public office should not revolve around her actions 30 years ago, but rather focus on whether she is performing her duties properly at the moment.
The ID does not believe in personalising these issues, but rather in tackling our enormous health challenges. Of grave concern to us is the fact that a Deputy Minister of Health has still not been appointed to provide a greater measure of political accountability to this vital portfolio.
It is clear that the President, for whatever reasons, lacks the will to take action against the Health Minister, and the ID therefore believes that Parliament’s time can be better spent on truly dealing with the health challenges affecting our country.
One in ten children born in South Africa die before the age of five and this figure has risen over the past 13 years. This is something we should all be ashamed of and we should resolve to tackle it as a manifestation of the health problems afflicting our nation. Instead of cheap politicisation on the one side and constant denialism on the other, we should put our children first and convene a parliamentary inquiry into child deaths in South Africa. I thank you.
Mrs C DUDLEY: Madam Speaker, members of Cabinet take an oath of office and the nation looks to them to model integrity, hard work and concern for the welfare of the population. These expectations are surely not unreasonable, especially when applied to a Minister of Health who heads a profession which exemplifies exceptionally high standards of ethical behaviour and hard work.
The alleged unlawful and dangerous habits of the Minister, in the opinion of the ACDP, are exceeded only by her dismal record in office. Her attitude towards HIV/Aids has been appalling and shows a blatant disregard for an entire generation of little ones growing up parentless. Keeping South Africa in the dark in terms of credible statistics, baby deaths, crippled hospital facilities and actively stopping others making progress add to the picture.
Minister Msimang’s defiant, couldn’t-care-less attitude depicts an arrogant unwillingness to serve the people of South Africa. The ACDP will support this motion and calls for an investigation into whether the Minister is fit to hold public office. [Applause.]
Dr P W A MULDER: Madam Speaker, the FF Plus believes that a committee should be appointed to investigate the matters as reported in the Sunday Times. The Sunday Times reported that the Minister of Health was a thief and a drunk. That is very serious. May I give some advice to the ANC on these matters: there is ample evidence that silence of an organisation in the face of controversy implies guilt. Continued silence moves growing numbers of the public to a stronger conviction of that guilt.
Kom ek sê dit in Afrikaans. Wat gebeur in die openbare lewe as ’n organisasie in ’n krisis kom en dan swyg of weier om op wilde bewerings teen die organisasie te reageer? In so ’n geval aanvaar die publiek dat die feite waar is en dat die organisasie skuldig is.
In die politiek is lojaliteit belangrik; dit verstaan ons, maar die ANC maak ’n fout as hulle dink dis lojaliteit om foute en leuens te beskerm. Uiteindelik vernietig hulle daarmee Suid-Afrika en die ANC se geloofwaardigheid. Onthou, wat in die ANC se belang is, is nie outomaties ook in Suid-Afrika se belang nie.
Ons is oortuig daarvan dat slegs ’n komitee wat hierdie saak ondersoek, uiteindelik die ANC en die Minister, wat ook in die moeilikheid is, uit hierdie probleme kan kry deur vir ons by die waarheid uit te kom. Dan sal die saak gaan lê. Daarsonder en tot in daardie stadium sal die stof nie gaan lê nie. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Allow me to say this in Afrikaans. What happens in public life if an organisation is plunged into a crisis and then remains silent or refuses to respond to wildly outrageous claims against it? In cases such as these the public accepts that the facts are true and that the organisation is guilty.
In politics loyalty is important; we understand this. But the ANC is mistaken if they think that it is an expression of loyalty to protect errors and lies. In the final instance they destroy South Africa’s and the ANC’s credibility. Remember, what is in the interest of the ANC is not automatically also in the interest of South Africa.
We are convinced that only an investigation by a committee can, in the end, get the ANC and the Minister, who is also in trouble, out of these problems, by revealing the truth to us. Then the issue will die down. Without that, and until that stage, the dust will never settle. I thank you.]
Ms S RAJBALLY: Madam Speaker, the MF is in firm support of democracy and human rights. However, we need to keep in mind that the apartheid regime was aggressive, and that the protests of many comrades resulted in activities that we as democrats today find unjust. If we all expected to come into this democracy with clean pasts, then there is a great possibility that many of those in positions of authority may be open to criticism. Therefore, the MF believes in noninterference in people’s private lives. I thank you.
Mr M T LIKOTSI: Madam Speaker, the APC welcomes this draft resolution submitted by the Chief Whip of the DA, hon I O Davidson.
I wish to put my case as follows: The citizens of our country are divided right down the middle in all aspects of their lives. You have the more rich ones and the worst poverty-stricken ones. There are those who are for change or transformation and there are those who are still locked in the past. The president of Cuba, Fidel Castro, referred to these two types of economies when he spoke about a situation such as ours, the first and the second economy. We all sing praises to the miracle of our democracy, but in different tunes. We all talk about the liberation struggle, but through different understandings.
May I informally, at this stage, pass a motion for a debate on our past experiences in the liberation struggle and that of those who were in the fold of the oppressor? Our experiences will surely differ. Those from all sides who enjoy the fruits of the liberation struggle must know that our struggle was a noble one. We have in the past admitted, and are still here and now admitting, that there were mistakes committed by both sides, the oppressor and the oppressed. That does not require us to condemn one another to death.
The APC has a strong conviction that the hard-fought gains of the liberation struggle must by all means be protected by all patriotic revolutionaries in our country. On the other hand, we must advise those who benefited from the past illegitimate racist regime to march with us to a promised land where all our citizens shall be one. We must embrace each other, take stock of our actions daily and be good citizens. We must now and then be reminded that we are one country, one nation. [Interjections.] The APC does not support the investigation. I thank you. [Applause.] [Time expired.]
Dr S E M PHEKO: Madam Speaker, the question is being asked whether an ad hoc committee should be appointed to investigate whether the Minister of Health is fit to hold office. She was appointed Deputy Minister of Justice by former President Nelson Mandela in 1996, and as the Minister of Health by President Thabo Mbeki in June 1999. Is it being suggested that when these presidents appointed the hon Minister of Health they did not apply their minds meticulously?
Her medical qualifications are among the best for health. I am aware that the Minister has been heavily criticised for the manner in which she has handled the disease of HIV and Aids in this country. But, is this her personal policy or government’s policy?
This Parliament must aspire to high standards of performance professionally and ethically in the national service. But, it must be objective in looking at national issues. Can we logically investigate a crime that was allegedly committed over 30 years ago - except in cases such as murder? Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs M M MADUMISE: Madam Speaker, I support the motion proposed by the hon James Ngculu. Since 1994 the DA identified health as one of the focus areas in its campaign to undermine the transformation process and the reconstruction and development of our country.
This approach is based on international experience, thus the emotive nature of the health sector provides a great opportunity for opposition parties to attack government with the aim of grabbing votes, as the DA is doing.
Whether it is Minister Dlamini-Zuma, Tshabalala-Msimang or any other person that our movement will in future deploy to this portfolio, and regardless of positive achievements, the DA will still shout at the top of their high- pitched voices alleging poor services, delivery, incompetence, etc.
However, the people of South Africa cannot be fooled by this political ploy aimed at mobilising sympathy for the reactionary cause of the DA. In making their political conclusion that have been clearly expressed through three successive general elections, our people evaluate the performance of our movement based on their daily experiences. [Applause.]
In all these elections, the people of South Africa have expressed their confidence in the ANC to lead the transformation process in this country, including the transformation of the health sector. They have rejected outright the false claims by the DA that the situation in this country, including the health sector, is worse than what it was, while most of the services were still reserved for the likes of hon member Waters and his DA colleagues.
The reason the people of this country cannot be fooled by the DA is because experience demonstrates that there has been improvement in the people’s daily lives since the fall of white supremacy.
More than 18 pieces of legislation have been submitted to this House by the Minister of Health, since her appointment in 1999. All of them have been approved by this House. [Interjections.] You were not here at the time. These include the National Health Act, Act 61 of 2003, which provides a legal framework for the health system in this country, including the protection of rights of all patients and health users.
More than 1 500 clinics have been built and primary health care is free to all. Free health care is available to pregnant women, children under five and people with disabilities. These are commonly known facts.
South Africa has been declared polio-free. The threat of measles and other vaccine-preventable diseases has been minimised. As a result of better immunisation and coverage, the first vaccine has been produced in the country through a private-public partnership initiative.
Efforts are being made to reduce the burden of noncommunicable diseases through a healthy lifestyle campaign, health screening and appropriate treatment for such conditions as diabetes, hypertension, various types of cancer and cardiovascular diseases.
One of the main calls from the DA has been that the Minister must be removed because they think that there is poor response to HIV and Aids. I do not know how they can demand the removal of someone who has exercised stewardship over a programme providing ARV treatment to more than 350 000 people.
The DA should tell us which other country in the world provides ARVs to such a number of people free of charge. In addition, the Department of Health has ensured that all districts and 78% of local municipalities have at least one service point, which means that most of our people can access these services in their localities.
The most recent report on the antenatal survey results shows a decrease in the prevalence of HIV amongst pregnant women who use public health facilities. Amongst those under the age of twenty years, HIV prevalence has declined from 15,9% in 2005 to 13,7% in 2006, which suggests a possible reduction in the number of new infections in the population.
Can this progress be fruits of the implementation of the National Strategic Plan on HIV and Aids championed by the Minister of Health since the year 2000 and on which the current national strategic plan for 2007-2011 is based? As hon member James Ngculu has indicated, all these issues I’m highlighting are issues that we deal with in the health portfolio committee.
I do not understand why today we are being asked to establish an ad hoc committee to assess the implementation of the programme of the Department of Health and, therefore, the performance of the Minister. We cannot be establishing new and unnecessary committees in Parliament every time a newspaper makes allegations against a member of the executive. Parliament has sufficient structures to exercise its oversight role over the various portfolios of the executive.
If The DA has concerns about the health programmes, those issues should be raised through the health portfolio committee, Mr Waters. As the ANC, we call for the rejection of your motion. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The LEADER OF THE OPPOSITION: Madam Speaker, there are two points that I wish to address. Firstly, the hon Ngculu spoke of this motion as being unconstitutional. I doubt that the Speaker would have allowed a motion if it were unconstitutional. It certainly is neither irrelevant, nor opportunistic, but in response to a huge public outcry.
It’s no pleasure for me to speak here about the failings of a colleague. We all fail at some point. And you may have noticed from my speech that I did not dwell on those failings.
However, the Department of Health is not a personal domain and the Minister of Health is someone who acts in the public interest. She could have avoided this debate if she herself had withdrawn timeously from public life. [Interjections.] As she has not done so, she forces us to request that Parliament does so.
She, as much as anybody else, must take responsibility for her own actions. And no defence from colleagues, which I can understand on an emotional level, changes the fact that this Minister has presided over the deaths – unnecessarily – of very many thousands of South Africans.
If we don’t act now, not only history, but all the vulnerable people in this country, will judge us very harshly. And I ask you, therefore, to reconsider your decision and to support the motion that we have put before you. Thank you. [Applause.]
The SPEAKER: Order! That concludes the debate. I put the amendment moved by …
The DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP OF THE MAJORITY PARTY: Madam Speaker, just on a point of order: Before we go to that, could we perhaps have a ruling, either now or at a later stage, whether the statement by the Leader of the Opposition that the Minister presided over the deaths of thousands of our people is parliamentary? Can that statement be in order? That would suggest that the Minister of Health played an active role in and essentially is guilty of murder. I don’t think that can be in order.
The SPEAKER: I will make a ruling on a subsequent occasion. I now put the amendment moved …
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, is it possible at some stage to make a declaration?
The SPEAKER: Hold on! I think, hon Van der Merwe, that to ask for a declaration when you’ve just had an opportunity here is really overkill. You’ve declared your views.
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Madam Speaker, maybe I can say it in 10 seconds. What I wanted to say is that we are against the motion, but also that we are against a motion of confidence in the Minister. So all I wanted to say is that in the circumstances, we will abstain.
Debate concluded.
Question put: That the amendment moved by Mr L V J Ngculu be agreed to. Division demanded.
The House divided:
AYES - 180: Abram, S; Anthony, T G; Arendse, J D; Balfour, B M N; Bapela, K O; Bhengu, F; Bloem, D V; Bogopane-Zulu, H I; Bonhomme, T J; Botha, N G W; Burgess, C V; Chauke, H P; Chikunga, L S; Chohan, F I; Combrinck, J J; Cronin, J P; Cwele, S C; Dambuza, B N; Daniels, P; Diale, L N; Dithebe, S L; Dlali, D M; Doidge, G Q M; Du Toit, D C ; Fihla, N B; Frolick, C T; Fubbs, J L; Gabanakgosi, P S; Gcwabaza, N E ; Gerber, P A; Gigaba, K M N; Gogotya, N J; Gololo, C L; Gomomo, P J; Greyling, C H F; Gumede, D M; Gumede, M M; Hanekom, D A ; Hlangwana, N; Huang, S; Jacobus, L; Jeffery, J H; Johnson, C B; Johnson, M; Kalako, M U; Khauoe, M K; Kekana, C D; Khumalo, K K; Khumalo, K M; Khunou, N P; Kota, Z A; Landers, L T; Likotsi, M T; Lishivha, T E; Louw, S K; Luthuli, A N; Maake, J J; Mabena, D C; Madasa, Z L; Madella, A F; Maduma, L D; Madumise, M M; Magau, K R; Magubane, N E ; Magwanishe, G B; Mahlaba, T L; Mahote, S; Maine, M S; Maja, S J; Makasi, X C; Makgate, M W; Malahlela, M J; Maluleka, H P; Maluleke, D K; Martins, B A D; Mashangoane, P R; Mashiane, L M; Mashigo, R J; Mashile, B L; Masutha, T M; Matlala, M H; Matsomela, M J J ; Maunye, M M; Mayatula, S M; Mbili, M E; Mentor, M P; Meruti, M V; Mgabadeli, H C; Mkhize, Z S; Mkongi, B M; Mnguni, B A; Mnyandu, B J; Moatshe, M S; Modisenyane, L J; Mofokeng, T R; Mogase, I D; Mohamed, I J; Mohlaloga, M R; Mokoena, A D; Mokoto, N R; Moonsamy, K; Morkel, C M; Morobi, D M; Morutoa, M R; Morwamoche, K W; Mosala, B G; Moss, M I; Motubatse- Hounkpatin, S D; Mshudulu, S A; Mthembu, B; Mthethwa, E N; Mzondeki, M J G; Ndlazi, Z A; Nel, A C; Nene, N M; Newhoudt-Druchen, W S; Ngcengwane, N D; Ngcobo, B T; Ngcobo, N W; Ngculu, L V J; Ngele, N J; Ngwenya, W; Nhlengethwa, D G; Njikelana, S J ; Njobe, M A A; Nogumla, R Z; Ntuli, B M; Ntuli, M M; Ntuli, R S; Ntuli, S B; Nwamitwa-Shilubana, T L P; Nxumalo, M D; Nxumalo, S N ; Nyambi, A J; Olifant, D A A; Oliphant, G G; Phadagi, M G; Pieterse, R D; Radebe, B A; Rajbally, S ; Ramgobin, M; Ramodibe, D M; Ramotsamai, C P M; Rasmeni, S M; Schippers, J; Schneemann, G D; Schoeman, E A; Seadimo, M D; Sehlare, L J; Sekgobela, P S; Selau, J G; September, C C; Sibanyoni, J B; Sibhidla, N N, Siboza, S ; Sikakane, M R; Simmons, S; Sithole, D J; Skhosana, W M; Smith, V G; Solo, B M; Solomon, G; Sosibo, J E; Surty, M E ; Thomson, B; Tlake, M F; Tolo, L J; Tobias, T V; Tshivhase, T J; Tshwete, P; Vadi, I; Van den Heever, R P Z; Van der Merwe, S C ; Van Schalkwyk, M C J; Xolo, E T; Yengeni, L E; Zita, L; Zulu, B Z.
NOES - 55: Bekker, H J; Bhengu, M J; Blanché, J P I; Boinamo, G G; Botha, C-S; Cupido, H B ; Davidson, I O; De Lille, P; Dhlamini, B W; Doman, W P; Dreyer, A M; Dudley, C; Ellis, M J; Greyling, L W; Groenewald, P J; Jenner, I; Joubert, L K; Kalyan, S V; King, R J; Kohler-Barnard, D; Labuschagne, L B; Lee, T D; Lowe, C M; Madikiza, G T; Minnie, K J ; Morgan, G R; Mpontshane, A M; Mulder, C P; Mulder, P W A; Nel, A H; Opperman , S E; Rabie, P J; Rabinowitz, R; Roopnarain, U; Sayedali-Shah, M R; Seaton, S A; Selfe, J; Semple, J A; Seremane, W J; Sibuyana, M W; Singh, N; Skosana, M B; Smuts, M; Spies, W D; Stephens, J J M; Steyn, A C; Swart , M; Swart, P S; Swart, S N; Van der Merwe, J H; Van Der Walt, D; Van Dyk, S M; Van Niekerk, A I; Waters, M; Weber, H.
ABSTAIN - 2: Bici, J; Sigcau , S N.
Amendment agreed to.
Motion, as amended, accordingly agreed to.
PARTY RESPONSES TO STATEMENT BY MINISTER OF DEFENCE ON CIRCUMSTANCES
SURROUNDING DEATHS AND INJURIES SUSTAINED BY MEMBERS OF SANDF DURING
OPERATION SEBOKA ON 12 OCTOBER 2007
Moulana M R SAYEDALI-SHAH: Thank you, Madam Speaker. The sad events of Friday, 12 October 2007, when an MK5 anti-aircraft gun malfunctioned during exercise Sekoba, killing and maiming some of our soldiers, is indeed regrettable.
Our hearts go out to those men and women who were killed or injured. On behalf of the DA I wish to extend our heartfelt sympathies to the bereaved families. May the souls of those killed rest in peace and may those who suffered injuries see a speedy recovery. They surely deserve all the moral and financial support they can get.
Madam Speaker, hon members, the gist of what the Minister said in his statement to the House is that the gun in question was attended to by a technician when it refused to fire, whereafter the malfunction occurred, with the gun taking on a life of its own; that at the time it was misfired it was on manual mode and not on electronic mode for purposes of target acquisition; and that these guns need to be clamped in place for purposes of stability and maintaining parameter accuracy.
Based on this information, the following needs to be thoroughly investigated in order to determine the true cause of this tragic incident: Why were the clamps not in place and who is responsible, if they were not, to ensure that they were in place? Were the necessary and regular service and maintenance work carried out on these guns? If so, are the service records available?
I ask these questions because, according to the Department Of Defence annual reports, there exists a lack of funds for maintenance of military equipment both for old and new equipment. Did the technician who attended to the gun when it jammed or developed a technical problem declare it or deemed it safe and fit for refiring with live ammunition after he had attended to it?
The hon Minister informed the House that a full investigation was under way, which would involve Saps, forensic experts as well as a parallel SANDF board of enquiry. However, he did not indicate whether the original manufacturers of the gun as well as those who were involved in its upgrade would participate in ongoing investigation. I say this bearing in mind that these guns were purchased a long time ago during the apartheid era and were not fully automatic at the time of purchase. They were subsequently upgraded and electronic features were added by the local defence industry, in collaboration with the Swiss manufacturers, which gave it the electronic and fully automatic fire control capability. Therefore, we feel that these companies must be involved in these investigations.
The investigation will have to determine the cause of the accident, which basically boils down to two things: One, whether the accident was caused by human error and, two, whether it was caused by mechanical malfunction or systems failure. In both instances, what or who was responsible is what we need to find out. It is hoped that we can get to the bottom of this as soon as possible in order to avoid a reoccurrence of such a disastrous event.
Once again, Madam Speaker, our thoughts are with the affected families and our sincere condolences go out to them. I thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr W M Skhosana): Thank you, hon member. The last time I checked I was male.
Mr J H VAN DER MERWE: Dankie, mnr die Voorsitter. [Thank you, Chairperson.]
The IFP would also like to extend its condolences to the loved ones of the soldiers who died, and we also wish the wounded a speedy recovery and hope they will be able to return to service as soon as possible.
We welcome the announcement of an official board of inquiry to investigate the accident. We trust that the investigation will be as comprehensive as possible. We suggest that the board should, among other things, concentrate on two critically important matters, namely, firstly, the regular maintenance of all weapon systems in the SANDF and, secondly, the continuous training of all soldiers in the SANDF. We pray that this tragic incident is merely an exception and that we will be spared further accidents. Therefore the critical factors of maintenance and training should be strictly observed in the whole defence force and not only at Lohatla. We know that the Oerlikon anti-aircraft gun is an older weapon system and we therefore ask whether its age had anything to do with the malfunctioning. We need the assurance also that all weapon systems in the SANDF are being regularly maintained to the highest standards required in a combat weapon.
Furthermore, a number of the gun crew were apparently volunteers with only a few months’ training behind them. We should therefore ask whether it was appropriate for them to have participated in a live fire exercise at this point of their training.
In conclusion, Chairperson, we expect from the defence Minister to assure the country that, firstly, maintenance of all weapon systems is regularly and professionally carried out and, secondly, that the training of soldiers, and especially volunteers, will at all times be carried out in accordance with the highest military standards. This should also form part of the board of inquiry’s brief and, if need be, new guidelines should be devised and issued.
Mrs P DE LILLE: Chairperson, as an honorary colonel in the SA National Defence Force, I wish to thank the Minister for the comprehensive briefing we received yesterday. On behalf of the ID, I would like to convey to the families of the deceased our sincere condolences and I also wish the brave men and women who have been injured and are in hospital a speedy recovery. Those brave men and women have paid the ultimate price with their lives in the service of our country.
I also want to make an appeal that this is a very serious accident and that we should not draw conclusions before we receive the full report from the Minister of Defence, because we have to consider the families and their great losses in this tragic incident. I thank you.
Mr S N SWART: Chairperson, the ACDP shares the sentiments expressed by previous speakers. We appreciate the Minister’s briefing and are mindful not to speculate as to the causes of this tragic incident prior to the outcome of both the police and the SANDF inquiries. This is not the time for speculation or casting blame, but rather a time to unite as a nation behind our defence force in this time of great loss.
However, the specific class of this anti-aircraft artillery involved is no doubt being employed and deployed operationally in peacekeeping missions and it is therefore imperative that the exact factual cause of this tragic incident is ascertained as a matter of urgency, to prevent a possible reoccurrence elsewhere.
We would also like to commend the brave officer who risked her life in a desperate bid to save the lives of other members of her battery by attempting to stop the wildly swinging artillery piece. Our condolences and prayers are with the families and loved ones of the nine deceased soldiers and we trust that our Heavenly Father will comfort them in their bereavement. We also pray for the speedy recovery of the 24 injured soldiers. I thank you.
Mnr P J GROENEWALD: Voorsitter, uit die aard van die saak betuig ook die VF Plus sy medelye aan die familie van die soldate wat gesterf het. Ons moet ook vir mekaar hier sê hierdie wapen is só ontwerp dat as ’n mens al die veiligheidsmaatreëls nakom wat vir hierdie wapen gestel word, behoort so ’n ongeluk nie plaas te vind nie.
Een eenvoudige aspek is dat daar op die meganiese kant byvoorbeeld sekere stoppers is wat verseker dat hierdie wapen binne sy skootvlak bly vuur. Dan ontstaan die vraag of hierdie stoppers in hulle plek was of nie, want as hulle in hulle plek was, behoort hierdie ongeluk nie plaas te gevind het nie.
Daar is ook ’n groot verskil tussen wanneer ’n mens ’n wapen afvuur met loskruitammunisie en wanneer jy hom afvuur met skerp ammunisie. Die VF Plus doen ’n beroep op die agb Minister om indringend te kyk na die verdedigingsbegroting om te verseker dat oefeninge met skerp ammunisie meer gereeld plaasvind. ’n Mens kan nie een maal in ’n jaar ’n oefening met skerp ammunisie hou en dink dat daar nie probleme gaan kom nie. Die Minister sal indringend daarna moet kyk. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr P J GROENEWALD: Chairperson, the FF Plus also conveys its condolences to the families of the soldiers who died. We also have to acknowledge that this weapon was designed in such a way that if one complies with all the safety measures set for this weapon, such an accident should not happen.
One simple aspect is that on the mechanical side for example there are certain stoppers that ensure that this weapon keeps firing within its field of fire. The question then arises whether these stoppers had been in place or not, because if they had been in place this accident should not have happened. There is also a big difference between firing a weapon with blank cartridges and firing with live ammunition. The FF Plus is appealing to the hon Minister to look at the defence budget in great detail to ensure that exercises with live ammunition takes place more often. You cannot have an exercise with live ammunition once a year and expect not to have problems. The Minister shall have to look at this in great detail.]
Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, the incident that has brought us to this podium is indeed a tragedy. The MF salutes these soldiers who dedicated their lives to the safety, security and protection of South Africa and its people. We extend our heartfelt condolences to the families and the loved ones of the deceased. We sincerely pray for the recovery of the remaining soldiers who were injured as a result of this ordeal.
We need to establish mechanisms to avoid the reoccurrence of this error and make sure that our soldiers’ safety is prioritised. We are certain that the department has already embarked on these efforts, and hope that it shall instil a triple-check facility in the use of all ammunition in training. The MF feels the loss to the state and our people of South Africa. Thank you.
Mr M T LIKOTSI: Chairperson, the APC is highly touched and devastated by the unfortunate incident that happened on 12 October 2007 in the military training camp at Lohatla. We send our deepest condolences to the families of the bereaved, the Defence Ministry, colleagues and friends.
This was an ill-timed incident that came at a wrong period when it was least expected by all of us in the country. We join the Minister and the families in this grief and we pray for the strength of all affected. Your pain is our pain.
The APC calls for all the citizens of our country to accept the explanation given by the Minister of Defence on this unfortunate incident …
Sithi akwehlanga lungehlanga. [Let us accept what has happened.]
Lefu ke ngwetsi ya malapa ohle. [Death is prevalent in all families.]
Thank you.
Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, it was with shock and regret that we learnt of the terrible accident at the defence force’s Lohatla training ground last week, in which nine soldiers died and 15 others were injured. We express our anger at the loss of the lives of our soldiers while undergoing training, and we express our sincere condolences to the bereaved families at this time.
There is no need to speculate on the causes of the accident but, in the interests of the public, an inquiry must be held to establish beyond a question of doubt the causes of the unfortunate accident. The House must request from the Ministry how much of the equipment used for training or even in operations are mechanically and technically sound, given the statement by the Minister of Defence that “malfunctioning of guns does happen from time to time”. This is a quote from 17 October 2007.
The FD commends the officer who risked her life and tried to stop the malfunctioning weapon. As such, we need to know that the conditions our soldiers are exposed to in their training are adequately resourced, how much risk they are confronted with and whether supervision and oversight duties are done in keeping with good standards and practices.
Despite this unfortunate accident, the FD believes that all South Africans can be proud of our National Defence Force and we continue to express our support for the role they play in our country and in the peacekeeping efforts in foreign countries. Thank you.
Mr F BHENGU: Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. [Thank you, Chairperson.]
In adding to all the positive tributes and condolences paid to families of the fallen soldiers and those who sustained injury and pain, I wish to thank the Minister for the bold and honest account to Parliament and the nation regarding the unfortunate incident of 12 October 2007 during Operation Seboka. We all share the pain and suffering.
NgesiXhosa siye sithi, ubuhlungu buyathungelana, kwaye intlungu kuyabelwana ngayo. [In isiXhosa we sometimes say, an injury to one is an injury to all.]
To the families of the fallen combatants, it prides the nation to learn that they departed whilst in their line of duty and responsibilities, a reflection of true patriotism and selflessness, a supreme sacrifice which only a rare calibre of soldiers could embrace. To those in mourning the ANC says: Please despise not death but welcome it for providence wills it like all else. It is indeed the will of life that dictates.
To the injured soldiers and those in physical and emotional stress and extreme pain we say: you have seen, you witnessed, you heard and you experienced the pain. You have now become what was once proclaimed, that you live to give testimony to what you have seen and heard. This then becomes your future reference of maturity and responsibility. Let the pain of the fallen combatants give you strength and courage to pursue the noble objectives of combat readiness in defence of peace for the love of your country, because to your fallen comrades tomorrow is nothing, today is too late and the good was lived yesterday. The ANC says that the power of healing is within you. We can only provide support, which we as the ANC and government will always continue to dispense. May your emotional, spiritual and physical hurt and injury be healed with time.
The ANC wants to extend a hand of gratitude, praise and support to the Department of Defence for their rapid and prompt response to alleviate and assuage the pain and suffering. As the Minister reported, this relates to the evacuation of the injured, the compilation and forwarding of incident reports, and the immediate convergence of senior defence officials and chaplains at Lohatla, amongst other things. We appreciate their speedy interaction and counselling of those who sustained minor and major physical injuries and also those who are emotionally distressed.
We fully endorse and support all forms of investigation that are and will be undertaken and we will await the final report, as the Minister advised.
Yilapho-ke, mhlonishwa, thina silikomidi sizokhuluma khona. [That is where we, as a committee, are going to speak.]
We commend the air defence artillery formation chaplain who, in conjunction with the combat training centre, arranged for the next-of-kin to be informed and counselled less than 24 hours after the incident. Our department has given effect to the ANC government’s commitment and responsibility by providing care and support to the families of the deceased and injured.
To the department, thank you for the diligent and compassionate work done to all South Africans. Let it be known that nothing happens to any man that he is not formed by nature to bear. Let us all share the pain and give unadulterated support and compassion to the families of the deceased, the injured, their colleagues, relatives and friends. Let us accept the things to which fate binds us and love the people whom fate brings us, but let us do so with all our hearts.
Chairperson, the Portfolio Committee on Defence and the Joint Defence Committee will join forces as part of its oversight role and visit the base on Wednesday, 24 October 2007.
Siyacela ke ukuba wena, ohloniphekileyo, usithethelele kuSomlomo ukuba asivumele njengekomiti ukuba sikwazi nokuya kwinkonzo yokukhumbula abafi eza kube ibanjwe kwangale mini inye. Sitsho ke ukuba sicela ukumela iPalamente phaya. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[We appeal to you, honourable member that you talk to the Speaker on our behalf, so that she can grant the committee permission to attend the memorial service, as it will be held on the same day with the sitting. We say this because we intend representing Parliament there.]
In conclusion, let the spirit of the departed solders advance the cause of peace inside South Africa, Africa and the world, for they stood for and represented an army of peace and today they would be saying: No nation ever had an army large enough to guarantee it against attack in time of peace or ensure its victory in time of war. We are required as a nation to share the same responsibility. Thank you.
Party responses concluded.
CORRECTIONAL SERVICES AMENDMENT BILL
(Second Reading debate)
The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Chairperson, chairperson of the portfolio committee and hon members of that committee, colleagues, ladies and gentlemen, the celebration of the second Corrections Week in our history as Correctional Services is a watershed moment. We are celebrating this focus week humbled by the public and stakeholder response to our call for involvement and participation.
The series of events we had during this focus week marked a turning point in the delivery of correctional services and signalled a new dawn of offender rehabilitation and social reintegration-centred service delivery. In 2004, we declared that our march forward would require intensified community involvement and participation. We created a policy framework that enabled that higher level of engagement.
The Corrections Week we are celebrating marks the turn of a century in the department in a fundamental way. A completely new face of Correctional Services is emerging through this campaign that begins to showcase our pockets of excellence, our best practices and the products and programmes that have changed the lives of both offenders and officials. Driven by our deep understanding and commitment to make corrections a societal responsibility, we have advanced these amendments to the Correctional Services Act to entrench in law, the ideals that we have been driving, informed by the White Paper on Corrections in South Africa.
It is a pleasure to inform the House that Correctional Services continues to break new ground in many respects. This is the first Bill or amendment that I am bringing forward as the Minister of Correctional Services in this House. I will quickly give you some background to it.
In my speech during the First Reading debate when the Correctional Services Amendment Bill was tabled, on 28 August 2007, I indicated that there were six key issues suggested in the amendments, which include the following: Firstly, the enhancement of societal participation in the rehabilitation and social reintegration of offenders; secondly, modifying the conditions for incarceration of mothers with babies - the Deputy Minister will speak in detail in this regard; thirdly, providing a legislative framework for the new model for rehabilitation; fourthly, providing for the improved monitoring of humane treatment of inmates of correctional centres; fifthly, improving the administration of the parole and correctional supervision system; and lastly, streamlining the functions of the judicial inspectorate to enhance its capacity to deliver on its mandate - again, the Deputy Minister will speak in detail on this issue.
There are minor amendments which are intended to change specific concepts, definitions and references in order to align the Rolls Royce of the Correctional Services Act with the Boeing of the White Paper on Corrections in South Africa. One of the defining characteristics of South Africa’s transition from a repressive apartheid regime to a country whose prowess in constitutional changes are celebrated the world over, is the transformation of our country’s prison system.
The department would like to appreciate inputs that were made by the portfolio committee and the robust engagement that took place. I further want to acknowledge and appreciate inputs that were made during the public hearings conducted by the portfolio committee as well. The Bill was adopted by the portfolio committee on 14 September 2007.
Proposed amendments are the following: Firstly, change of concepts and terminology to align the Act to the White Paper; secondly, new definitions of words such as “care”, “inmates”, “needs-based programmes” and so on that we inserted; thirdly, the enhancement of social participation in the rehabilitation and social reintegration of offenders; and lastly, the improvement of the administration of parole and correctional supervision.
In clause 55 the Bill provides for the incarceration framework, which in future will determine minimum periods of incarceration before a sentenced offender can be considered for community correction. The NCCS, the National Council on Correctional Services, must, in consultation with the national Commissioner, determine minimum periods for which sentenced offenders must be incarcerated before being considered for placement under community corrections. The incarceration framework must be ratified by the Minister in the form of regulations which will be tabled to the portfolio committee. This will in future provide for more consistency in the decisions of the parole boards. All that we have done here are just technical amendments to the Act. I am pleased that the committee has strongly agreed with the department on some of these amendments. It has been a fulfilling week for the department. We could not have celebrated Corrections Week any better. I am quite confident that these changes will indeed place the delivery of Correctional Services on a new pedestal and affirm our position as a key player in the transformation of the prison system in South Africa, in Africa and internationally.
I am also very sure that these fundamental issues I have raised will need a profound shift in the minds of many people, in order for them to understand that they are key to reducing re-offending and therefore to the safety and security of the South African public. Therefore, allow me to make a call to all South Africans to join in building a national partnership to correct, to rehabilitate and to reintegrate offenders for a safer and a more secure South Africa. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr D V BLOEM: Thank you very much, Chairperson. Minister, Deputy Minister, National Commissioner and senior members of the department, let me first wish the Minister and the department well with Corrections Week: everything of the best, Minister. I can see that things are going very well there.
The Bill seeks to amend the Correctional Services Act, Act 111 of 1998, in order to align it with the White Paper on Correctional Services, by addressing the following principles contained in the White Paper: correction, security, facilities, care, development and aftercare.
I am very confident that we are moving in the right direction. Correctional Services is a very challenging department. Let me explain why I say this. Amending the Act is a very important indication that we are serious and determined to protect the public and keep these monsters inside.
Let me once again touch on the issue of overcrowding in our prisons. We cannot and must not stop highlighting this challenge, but today I want to raise the effects of overcrowding. It creates tension, hostility and aggression among both offenders and officials. It creates conditions of inhumane incarceration, retards effectiveness of rehabilitation programmes and impacts negatively on security and safe custody.
One of the major functions of prison is to protect the public through the safe custody of offenders until their sentences are served. Therefore, security is of utmost importance.
I have said many times that prisons were never built to keep people who have committed petty offences, but rather to keep these dangerous criminals inside. People serving three, six or 12 months, some even ten days, are sitting in our prisons and cause these serious overcrowding problems.
Let me once again call upon our magistrates to look into this matter and not to send people guilty of petty offences to prison, but rather sentence them to community service. Let them serve their sentences outside prison. Of course, you still find in our courts magistrates who are opposed to the new democratic order, but I must say that they are in the minority; the vast majority are very positive.
We must deal with the really serious criminals, merciless monsters who have caused a lot of hardship, pain and suffering in families and communities. I strongly feel that we must send out a strong and clear message to these monsters who kill and rape our mothers, sisters and children. These monsters who kill our police officers, robbers who do not have respect for human life, for them the message is very short and simple: We have made life very difficult for you. We must take life sentences very seriously. You can’t kill and think that after 10 or 15 or 18 years you will be entitled to or qualify for parole. If the court has sentenced you to life imprisonment then you must face the consequences of that sentence. Full stop! With this I am saying that they can forget about early parole.
A very respectable and credible body, called the National Council for Correctional Services, will from now on deal with these matters of parole for these monsters who are serving life sentences. I am saying “respectable and credible body”, because it consists of three judges of the Supreme Court of Appeal of South Africa or of the High Court, a magistrate of a regional court, a director or deputy director of Public Prosecutions, two members of the Department of Correctional Services above the rank of director, a member of the police above the rank of director, a member of the Department of Social Welfare above the rank of director, two persons with special knowledge of the correctional system who are not in the full- time service of the state, two members who are not in the full-time service of the state, and two Members of Parliament. These are the people serving on this council.
Lastly, I think it is my duty to say this: we must never forget to thank, firstly, the commissioner, Vernie Petersen, the legal team – they are sitting here, very beautiful people led by a very competent advocate. That woman sitting in the middle there is the advocate of Correctional Services. She is very competent. I also want to thank the State Law Adviser, Ms Bongiwe Lufundo, and Mr Vanara, the Parliamentary Legal Adviser, for their guidance and assistance.
Secondly, we must also thank the men and women working in the department under very difficult and dangerous circumstances. We must know that these people are working 24 hours a day with these dangerous criminals who do not have respect for human life. I think I will fail in my duty if I do not remind the Minister to look into the salaries and promotions of the loyal and dedicated officers of this department. Minister, these people are really doing their utmost to keep our country very safe and we, as this House, must really support them and encourage them to do better. The Deputy Minister and the Commissioner know that these people are really serious.
In conclusion, I really want to thank the entire committee for their dedication and hard work, including the opposition party: Ms Sybil Seaton, Mr Cupido, Mr James Selfe, Mama Rajbally and all the members. In this committee we work as one solid unit, because we take security very seriously. There can’t be any political party issue in Correctional Services. [Interjections.]
Shut up! Please, man. Please!
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Order!
Mr D V BLOEM: I am busy with serious things and you bring up something else.
I really want to thank each and every person who worked so hard. We were spending day and night, and long hours in the committee, but South Africa can be proud of the product that comes out of this committee. I want to thank each and every person.
Julle sal een van die dae toegesluit word! Ek sê julle. Baie gou. [You will be locked up one of these days! I’m telling you. Soon.] [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Before you continue, Sir, I was about to commend hon members for observing the decorum and the integrity of the House this afternoon. It looks as if we are beginning to go overboard now. You are also responsible, hon member, you know that. Hon member Selfe, you may continue, Sir.
Mr J SELFE: Chairperson, I was about to say that it was a pleasure to speak under the chairpersonship of somebody who knows the Department of Correctional Services inside out, but I would like to begin by congratulating the chairperson and the members of the portfolio committee for the way in which they dealt with this Bill.
The Bill before us is a vast improvement on the original Bill in a number of respects, and in that respect, I agree with the comments made by the hon Bloem.
In 2005, the Cabinet approved the White Paper on Correctional Services. Not all the provisions of the Correctional Services Act, which had been passed in 1998, were aligned to the White Paper and an amending Bill was therefore necessary.
In its original form, the Bill contained a number of objectionable clauses. One was to allow the Minister, in consultation with the National Council for Correctional Services, to determine the minimum period to be served by inmates before they could become eligible for placement on community service. Another was a provision which allowed the Department of the Public Service and Administration to appoint the CEO in the office of the inspecting judge, and yet another was to change the inspecting judge to an inspector-general on corrections.
These provisions did not find favour with the portfolio committee. The inspecting judge, after the treatment that the portfolio committee gave to this Bill, will remain a judge and that is appropriate. Judges carry a certain status, which allows them to carry out their functions in a way intended by the Act. The judge will now choose the CEO of his or her office in consultation with the Director-General of the Public Service and Administration, and that person will then be appointed by the National Commissioner. Both these measures are essential to preserve the independence and status of the office of the inspecting judge.
The national council will establish an incarceration framework, which will determine the minimum period to be served before an inmate can be considered for community corrections. The national council will be augmented by an additional judge as a member.
On this subject, the point made by the hon chairperson of the committee about alternative sentences is entirely appropriate. We hope that the national council, in developing the sentencing framework, will take into consideration the very real problem of overcrowding of our correctional centres, and will deal with alternative sentences as a matter of urgency.
There are other improvements made by the portfolio committee. One concerns the position of infants who are in prison with their mothers. The original Bill required these babies to be placed in care when they reach the age of two years. As the Bill now stands the decision about placement will be made by the Department of Social Development, “in the best interests of the child”. We know that prison is not an ideal environment in which to raise a child, but in many cases, it is better than the alternative outside.
For the rest, the Bill changes a number of definitions and terms. A “prison” becomes a “correctional centre”; a “prisoner” becomes an “offender” or an “inmate” and so on. These changes are necessary in order to align the Act with the White Paper. But, in the end, we must remember that no amount of fancy terms must obscure the fact that the crime rate is too high, and that South Africans want offenders to emerge from correctional centres rehabilitated.
At the moment the offending rates are much too high and the department needs to create the right mix of discipline and rehabilitation to reverse this trend. The focus of Corrections Week and the activities of the department must be geared to achieve this. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mrs S A SEATON: Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, colleagues, the IFP would like, also, to congratulate the Minister and the Deputy Minister on Corrections Week. It is in great favour and I think you are doing a very good job.
We very much support the amendments, particularly the proposals made by the portfolio committee. The issues have been dealt with by Mr Selfe - unfortunately, I don’t have the time to go into all of them. They include the retention of the inspecting judge as opposed to an inspector-general, and the Minister’s powers to grant parole to life that have been taken over to the national council recommending parole to the Minister, who would then ratify the recommendation.
One of the issues that I think has not been mentioned is the fact that two Members of Parliament will now serve on the national council. I think that is a very good thing. The fact that the portfolio committee must be consulted about any draft regulations is, I think, absolutely essential, and that the CEO of the inspecting judge will be appointed by the National Commissioner on the recommendation of the inspecting judge and in consultation with the Director-General of the Public Service and Administration. These are important issues. One needs to commend the chairperson and the committee for the team work that was displayed. Fortunately, Mr Bloem doesn’t allow us to keep quiet in the committee. We are allowed to have our say and we do get to have our say, and, jointly, we’ve taken, I believe, very good decisions.
I would also like to place on record our appreciation to the department, and in particular to the Commissioner, for the manner in which he negotiated with the committee on these issues. It was really exemplary and we must really thank him very much. I believe we have achieved a great deal, and the new Act will make a difference to the department. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr H B CUPIDO: Chairperson, the ACDP is in support of the Correctional Services Amendment Bill before the House today. One of the objects of the Bill is locked up in the name “Correctional Services”, namely, to correct the offender to such an extent that he or she may be welcomed back into the communities where he or she comes from.
The essence of rehabilitation is to bring about positive change in offenders and their behaviour. This means that the disposition, attitude and behaviour of the individual must be changed. Rehabilitation is not a once-off event; therefore, ongoing processes should be in place to ensure that offenders are successfully reintegrated into society. It is of great importance that community-based organisations are part of these rehabilitation programmes, and the Bill makes provision for this.
The argument regarding the success of rehabilitation has always been a cause of debate. On the one hand, there are those with the view that prison or correctional centres are to rehabilitate inmates, and on the other hand are those who believe that prisons effectively destroy lives.
Overpopulated correctional centres are not conducive to proper rehabilitation and need to be addressed urgently. The ACDP does not want to see offenders being released on early parole, but rather that they are best rehabilitated. We support the amending Bill. Thank you.
The DEPUTY MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Chairperson, hon Minister Balfour, Cabinet colleagues, Commissioner of the Department of Correctional Services and officials that are present, Members of Parliament, ladies and gentlemen, I thank the Chairperson, firstly, for the opportunity to present to this House the proposed Correctional Services Amendment Bill, which we strongly believe is yet another milestone in the delivery of improved correctional services in South Africa.
Before delving into the actual amendments proposed, I want to join the Minister with regard to the celebration of Corrections Week. I urge all members to join us in the remaining activities in celebrating Corrections Week. Tomorrow morning there is a big activity at Pollsmoor and we want to invite all of you to join us there.
Consistent with international best practice, mainstream views on penal reform and correctional services, the department embarked on an elaborate process of developing the new South African White Paper on Corrections. This marked yet another fundamental break from the predominately punitive system of prisons, which in terms of international trends and research has been shown to have made very little if any impact on crime prevention and reoffending.
The White Paper that was passed or adopted by Cabinet in 2005 represented a paradigm shift that placed corrections of offending behaviour and rehabilitation of offenders in the centre of this mandate. This responsibility we believe, as the Department of Correctional Services, belongs firstly to the families of offenders, the Department of Correctional Services and indeed society at large.
I just briefly want to touch on three of the areas that are mentioned in the amending Bill. The first one is clause 20, which relates to mothers and babies. The issue of the time that children can spend with their incarcerated mothers is also being addressed with the reduction of the legally permissible period from five years to two years. This is informed by extensive research conducted which demonstrates that the requisite mother-to-child bonding and stimulation can be achieved within the first two years of the birth of a child. Various countries have provisions for the stay of children with their mothers for a period of between one year and 18 months.
We took cognisance of the fact that the environment in a correctional facility, as members have said, is not conducive for overall future development of children, in particular during the first five years of their lives. We understand the requirements for effective early childhood development and the resources we have can better assist those younger than two years.
As we strengthen family and community participation in correction, we will also be able to engage families and relatives to take responsibility for closing these gaps, assisted of course by our sister government department, the Department of Social Development.
Secondly, I want to speak very briefly about clause 70, which deals with the inspecting judge. The Bill seeks to relieve the inspecting judge of the administrative burden, through the appointment of a chief executive officer to the judicial inspectorate to manage the day-to-day matters of the inspectorate. This intervention will enhance the inspecting judge’s focus on mainstream issues of ensuring effective oversight and adherence to the constitutional and legal provisions aimed at ensuring the detention of offenders under conditions that are consistent with human dignity.
The third clause is clause 25, which relates to restorative justice. We must remember, hon members, that restorative justice in general and in particular is essentially a forward-looking, inclusive and healthy process. It allows for the building of reconciliation through addressing the hurts and the needs of both victims and offenders in such a way that both parties, as well as the communities which they are part of, are healed. Unlike the traditional and conversational programmes and sanctions that focus on punishing the offenders, restorative justice responses are directed at repairing harm involving all role-players.
Chairperson, lastly, I am quite confident that these amendments will indeed place delivery of correctional services on a new pedestal and affirm our position as a key player in the transformation of the penal system not only in South Africa but also in the world.
I’m also very sure that these amendments will need a fundamental shift in the mindset of many people in order to understand that all of us are key to reduce reoffending and therefore the safety and security of all South Africans. But before I sit - oh, I’ve got 29 seconds. Can you please give me a minute, Chairperson, just to address the yellow ribbon? Thank you.
I have given out yellow ribbons to some of the colleagues here. I am also wearing one. It is a campaign that we have just launched during Corrections Week now. It is a campaign to mobilise communities and families around embracing ex-offenders for successful social reintegration when they get out of correctional facilities. Many of you will remember the song Tie a Yellow Ribbon Round The Old Oak Tree. I want to put a spin to that tale; some of you will remember the exact tale. It was a letter written by an offender who was about to be released to his wife to say, if you are going to accept me back into your life please tie a yellow ribbon around the oak tree in our garden. He did not get a response from his wife. But when he was on the bus coming back, he looked through the window of the bus and the whole neighbourhood had yellow ribbons tied around every tree in the yards of that particular neighbourhood. And that is the kind of response that we would like to get from communities, and we would want to urge all you Members of Parliament, through your constituencies, to actually propagate for that acceptance of ex-offenders, to really hamper reoffending and this vicious cycle of criminal activity that is the revolving door of Correctional Services. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr M B Skosana): Thank you, hon Deputy Minister. I think the minute was worth it and I don’t think members are going to say that I was soft on Correctional Services.
Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, I congratulate our chairperson, hon Bloem, on Corrections Week. We will do our best to help him in the community.
The MF finds that this amending Bill is pivotal in the recognition of human rights and in respect of criminal offenders and correctional sentence. Correctional facilities have shown great development in the progress and rehabilitation of inmates. We do however still seek the separation of minor and major offenders. We are pleased that solitary confinement has been adjusted to more humane means, but we express our concern at the removal of babies from imprisoned mothers at two years rather than five years. The MF inquires whether expertise has been utilised to establish this in the best interests of the child and we further would like to know if separate quarters are maintained for mothers with minors separate from other inmates. Also, is the care of the minor maintained by the state and has the cost factor contributed to this reduction of age?
We believe that rehabilitation, deterrence and prevention of crime are crucial if we are to reduce crime. But, to reduce our registration of offenders we need to strongly inculcate programmes that serve to open roads to new law-abiding ambitions for inmates once they have served the time.
The MF supports the Correctional Services Amendment Bill. I thank you. [Applause.] Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, the FD commends the Minister and Deputy Minister on Corrections Week. It was well covered by Morning Live on SABC 2 this morning and the programmes for prisoners are really impressive. We are just wondering why the other departments are not following your example. Why don’t we have a justice week and a water week or whatever? Well done, hon Minister.
South Africans should live more secure knowing that this Bill has gone through such a robust process to protect the independence and integrity of our judiciary to create certainty in their operational duties.
Initially, the Minister designed powers to overwrite the rules prescribed by the courts relating to the parole and sentencing of offenders. The Portfolio Committee of Correctional Services has caused the initial Bill be rewritten and the House would be proud of the members who have provided critical input to enhance the oversight role of Parliament. Well done, hon Bloem and the members of this committee.
In terms of the definition of correction as stipulated in the Bill, rehabilitation remains a key factor in changing the ways of inmates. With every defining change to the terminology there should be the required adjustment to instruction and enforcement that upholds the new policy approach.
With prison warders being under so much pressure to ensure control and discipline, and given the strain of overcrowded prisons and the subculture of intimidation, how much time is left for correcting the behaviour of inmates when the best the already overburdened prison warders can do is simply to maintain the status quo?
I wish to concur with all the comments made by the hon Bloem on the problems of overcrowding of prisons. We really support that. The Bill makes provision for organisations such as religious organisations, nongovernmental organisations and community-based organisations to register with the department and help with rehabilitation. The FD feels that this is an important Bill and we therefore support it. Thank you for your hard work. Thank you. [Applause.]
Nksz W NGWENYA: Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. Mhlonishwa Ngqongqoshe uMnu. Ngconde Balfour, malungu ahloniphekile wezoMnyango Wezokuhlunyeleliswa Kwezimilo, malungu esigungu soxolo nozinzo, Sihlalo Wekomidi Lezokuhlunyeleliswa Kwezimilo, lokhu kushaywa koMthethosivivinywa Wezokuhlunyeleliswa Kwezimilo kususelwa emthethweni wezwe. Lo Mthethosivivinywa kufanele uhambisane nePhepha Elimhlophe elaziwa nge-White Paper lokuhlumelelisa izimilo.
Kumele kukhumbuleke ukuthi umthetho omkhulu okuwuMthetho Wezokuhlunyeleliswa Kwezimilo we-111 ka-1998 washaywa. Kuzokhumbuleka futhi ukuthi kwakungekho iphepha elimhlophe ngalo nyaka ka-2005. Leli phepha ligcizelela kakhulu ukuvuselela nokwakha kabusha izimilo kanye nokuphathwa kwalabo abagcinwe ezikhungweni zokuhlumelelisa izimilo. Ukubhekelela umoya womuntu, ukuvuselelwa kwezimilo kanye nokulungisa isimo somphakathi kucacisa kakhulu isinqumo sengqungquthela yombutho wesizwe i-African National Congress yezwe lonke yama-51.
Lo Mthethosivivinywa uveza kakhulu isimo sabantu besifazane abasezikhungweni zokuhlunyeleliswa kwezimilo ngenxa yokwephula umthetho. Uyachaza futhi abesimame abayiziboshwa njengomama abanezingane. Yingakho-ke sithi, siyi-ANC, lo Mthethosivivinywa awuchemile ngobulili noma awusho lutho ngodaba lwabesifazane. Yilapho-ke esingaqala khona ukubukela eduze isimo sabesimame abayiziboshwa futhi nabanezingane ukuthi seyamaniswe nezindaba zobulili. Kumele kwazeke ukwehlukanisa phakathi kweziboshwa zabantu besifazane nezabesilisa kanti futhi nodaba lwamandla phakathi kwabo lumele luchazwe kahle ngamagama asetshenziswa ekuhumusheni lo Mthethosivivinywa.
Abesifazane abagcinwe ezikhungweni zokuhlunyeleliswa kwezimilo kubukeka sengathi bacindelezekile ngezimo ezifana nokubhekwa kanye nokunakekelwa kwabantwana ngesikhathi bedonsa izigwebo zabo. Abesilisa bona babhekene nezigwebo zabo nje kuphela futhi abanamisebenzi eminingi ngaso leso sikhathi bedonsa izigwebo zabo. Ukungalingani ngokobulili kuyabonakala ezikhungweni zokuhlunyeleliswa izimilo kanti-ke kuyiqiniso ukuthi abesifazane banezidingo ezehlukile kwezabesilisa. Ukungalingani nokucwaswa kwabesimame kuyehluka ngokwamazinga kanjalo nokwalabo besifazane abanezingane kuyehluka kanje: Izidingo zokuthuthukisa, ezobuhlakani, ezomphefumulo, ezansuku zonke ezibambekayo, njll.
Lo Mthethosivivinywa uchibiyela isigatshana sama-20 somthetho obhekene nabesimame nabantwana abancane, lapho uchibiyela khona ukuthi umntwana angahlala nonina esikhungweni sokuhlunyeleliswa kwezimilo iminyaka emibili esikhundleni seminyaka emihlanu. Isizathu esenza lokhu ukuthi izingane ezikhulela ngaphansi kwalesi simo ziyaphazamiseka ngoba zikhula ngaphansi kwesimo esingaphezu kwazo nokucabanga njengezingane. Lokhu kwenza isimo sokukhula komntwana singabi sesimweni esihle. Nizokhumbula nje ngesikhathi sencindezelo kulaba ababesejele ukuthi uma usejele usuku olulodwa nje lufana nonyaka. Kangakanani-ke kumntwana?
Lokhu akusho ukuthi emuva kweminyaka emibili sekuphelile njalo ngesimo senhlalakahle somntwana. Zikhona izimo lapho umntwana engahlala khona kulezi zikhungo iminyaka engaphezu kwemibili. Lesi simo sichaza ukuthi emuva kweminyaka emibili, imiphakathi ingakwazi ukungenelela kulesi simo somntwana ngokubabheka ngesikhathi abazali bengakaqedi izigwebo zabo. Imindeni nezidingo zalokhu kukhona.
Udaba nodaba luzobhekisiswa kahle ngokukhulu ukucophelela ngoba njengoba kushiwo kuthiwa izingane zingaba nezidingo ezehlukene, yilapho-ke zonke izidingo zabantwana zichaza into okumele yenzeke. Kumele kube khona enye indlela eyehlukile engasetshenziswa ukunakekela abantwana uma lena yehluleka. Lokhu kudinga ukusebezisana kweMinyango ikakhulukazi uMnyango Wezenhlakahle Nokuthuthukiswa Komphathi noMnyango Wezobulungiswa. Kudinga futhi inkantolo yabantwana noma inkantolo yomndeni ichaze ukuthi yini edingwa umntwana nomntwana. Isigaba sama-28 g (ii) soMthethisisekelo sithi izidingo zomntwana yizona ezibalulekile kuwona wonke umntwana. Kuzona zonke izindaba … [Kuphele isikhathi.] Ngiyabonga. (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)
[Ms W NGWENYA: Thank you, Chairperson. Hon Minister Ngconde Balfour, hon members of the Department of Correctional Services, members of the justice, peace and security cluster, Chairperson of the Portfolio Committee on Correctional Services, the passing of this Correctional Services Amendment Bill emanates from the country’s law. This Bill must be aligned with the White Paper on Correctional Services.
It must be remembered that the principal Act which is the Correctional Services Act, No. 111 of 1998 was passed. It must also be remembered that there was no White Paper in 2005. This paper puts more emphasis on the regeneration of morals and the way in which prisoners should be treated. Consideration of one’s emotions, moral regeneration and looking into social welfare of the society highlights the decision that was taken by the 51st ANC National Conference. This Bill, particularly, highlights conditions under which women live in prisons where they find themselves for having broken the law. It also explains about prisoners who are mothers. That is why we, as the ANC, say that this Bill is not gender-biased nor do we say it does not say anything about women. That is where we can start and look closer at the female prisoners’ situation that also have children and align it with gender issues. The difference between female and male prisoners should be known and power relations between them must be clearly explained in words used in interpreting this Bill.
Women in prisons seem to be oppressed in terms of having to look after and caring for their children while doing time in prison. Male prisoners are only doing their time and they do not have more work to do. Gender inequality is evident in prisons and it is quite true that women have more needs than men. The inequality and discrimination against women and those who have children differ according to the following: Developmental needs, intellectual needs, emotional needs, tangible daily needs, etc.
This Bill amends section 20 of Act dealing with women and children where it states that a child can live with its mother in prison for two years instead of five years. The reason thereof is that children who grow up under these circumstances, usually, their childhood development is tampered with because they grow under circumstances beyond their thinking as children. As a result, the child grows up under abnormal circumstances. Those of you who were in prison during apartheid would know that one day in prison is like a whole year. Can you imagine a child in that situation?
This does not mean that after two years it is all over as far as the welfare of the child is concerned. There are circumstances in which a child could live in prison more than two years. This means that after two years, communities, now, can intervene and look after children while their mothers are finishing their sentences. Families are available to assist with this. Each case will be treated very carefully because, as it is said, children may have different needs. That is where children’s needs demonstrate what should be done. There must be another way that may be used should this one fail. This needs co-operation of the departments, especially the Department of Social Development and the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development. It also needs the children or family courts to explain what is needed by the child. Section 28 g (ii) of the Constitution states that children’s needs are most important to each and every child. In all the matters … [Time expired.] Thank you.]
The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Chairperson, very quickly, I have only four minutes. We started in Queenstown and went to Middeldrift, Leeukop and Emceleni. The Deputy Minister was in Brandvlei for ARVs to accredit that place. Today we went to Nelspruit for the interfaith service and tomorrow we will be in Pollsmoor.
In Pollsmoor we are promoting a lovely project of fresh vegetables grown by the female offenders of Pollsmoor. Please, chairperson of the caucus of the ANC, come with us. Tomorrow morning …
Amadoda akhona nawo uyaba ncedisa. [Men are also there to help them.]
We call that the Hlumani Project.
Very quickly, let me thank the portfolio committee and every member who participated in this debate. I also thank the Commissioner, who played a key role in driving this legislation and talking and discussing with the portfolio committee. I must thank legal services, led by Advocate Malibye - there she is sitting.
It has been a hard two weeks for them to work through this with a very stubborn Minister who doesn’t give in very easily. I am used to koppestamp, that’s the thing. You can see. I am used to rugby. So, I take koppestamp very easily. We have to thank Sabelo, our parliamentary officer, because he also had to steer the team and make sure that things are done properly.
This department is not one of the easiest departments. I make a call to all members to come out and see for themselves what we do out there. There are issues that cut across three departments and all the time we have to try to get our colleagues in other departments to work with us and to agree with us.
But at the end of the day, we are at the end of a conveyer belt. They come all the way from SAPS through the system: justice, the courts and then to us, and at the end we have to make sure that we keep them safe and secure, away from the communities, but also that we keep them in a humane environment.
There will be those whom we will never be able to rehabilitate. We are not that naive not to understand that. There will be issues that come up time and again, such as escapes and everything else. I only plead with the public that those relatives who have children in prison, who have brothers, spouses, even “spices” in prison, should assist us. Please help us to ensure that the work that we do becomes easier, not only for ourselves but for yourselves and for the sake of the communities.
We are running victim empowerment and restorative justice programmes, and I am quite happy to say that it is really taking place very well within. We cannot see the returns of rehabilitation immediately, but we see them in the long run when we meet offenders who come up to us and say, “I was your ex-offender, look, I am employing so many people now.” We are doing this kind of project. So, please, assist us in doing that.
Lastly, I thank the commission and everybody. Regarding Saturday, if you look at my tie, it has a Springbok on it. It is a Springbok tie.
My bloed is groen. [My blood is green.]
And on behalf of the whole department - I know offenders love rugby, they do - on behalf of my officials - they love sport as well, they love rugby - and the department, myself, the Deputy Minister, the Commissioner, the senior management of the department …
… nosisi Ntombazana uthi naye uyinxalanye yalo nto … [my sister Ntombazana over there says, “me too” …]
… we say to the Bokke on Saturday: “Bokke! Bokke! Bokke! Bring it home, boys, bring it home!”
Debate concluded.
Bill read a second time.
SOCIAL HOUSING BILL
(Second Reading debate) The DEPUTY MINISTER OF EDUCATION: Chairperson and colleagues, I just want to assure you that I have not been redeployed. What is social housing? It is state-subsidised rental housing for medium- and low-income people. It services groups who cannot afford to buy houses, that are in transition, either geographically or in the life cycle, for example the young, the old, the upwardly or downwardly mobile, a single parent with children, especially women, and so on; or specific groups such as pensioners and physically disabled persons.
Social housing has been the most common and successful form of government housing in Europe and the United Kingdom, and is recognised as an important form of government intervention in many countries. In a country such as the Netherlands, it constitutes up to 50% of total housing stock and 80% of rental housing stock. Support for the rental housing sector has been strong internationally, in recognition of the fact that rental housing is a necessary part of any healthy housing sector.
On the downside, internationally social housing has suffered the stigma of providing poorly managed housing estates on the outskirts of cities, which become ghettos of poverty for marginalised groups. In our case, in South Africa, social housing has been identified as a key area in government’s attempt to create sustainable human settlements. The most significant aspect of this sector, in our case, is that the majority of its developments are in central city areas, and thus the best example of government-funded programmes which have reversed the apartheid city policy.
Of particular importance in the social housing sector has been the introduction of the concept of tenant as client in low-income communities, which is now widely practised, but probably as widely ignored in the rental housing sector as a whole. Over the years, the social housing sector has grown, and has been a beneficiary of significant funding from government. However, it is characterised by a patchwork of policies, and funding and institutions that do not adequately support the growth of this sector, and do not allow for the proper regulation and monitoring of funding and policy.
For these reasons, the Department of Housing is now taking steps to assist the governance and regulatory process, through the promulgation of the Social Housing Bill and the establishment of the Social Housing Regulatory Authority, all framed by the approved social housing policy. Such regulation becomes all the more important, if it is considered that the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework has allocated a total of R510 million to the social housing programme for the period 2006-07 to 2008-09, and that the department is proposing to increase the level of subsidised rental housing by a 100 000 units over the next five years - I repeat, a 100 000 units over the next five years - requiring an additional R2 billion in funding into this sector.
In the current scenario, such funding would be released into an inadequately regulated and monitored environment. Therefore, the objectives of the Social Housing Bill, 2007, being tabled here are to establish and consolidate general definitions and principles, which can then be recognised as the authoritative guidelines for the sector as a whole, to establish the social housing regulator and to provide for the recognition and accreditation of social housing institutions.
The Bill provides specific functions and responsibilities to these three spheres of government. It requires us, the national government, to create the kind of legislative, financial, policy and institutional framework that will enable the sector to grow, whilst provincial governments are given the responsibilities to approve and administer grant funds and monitor project level compliance. Local governments are, on the other hand, required to ensure access to land, infrastructure and services, as well as initiating the identification of restructuring zones.
The Bill’s major purpose is the establishment of the Social Housing Regulatory Authority – the body that in accordance with the Public Finance Management Act and the Guide for Creating Public Entities in the national sphere of government would, amongst other things, be responsible for accrediting social housing institutions, administer and disburse capital and institutional grants, as well as conduct compliance monitoring to norms and standards by the sector. It will have powers to intervene, to resolve maladministration issues and to provide for taking remedial steps wherever necessary.
These interventions have been necessitated by the recognition that issues of corporate governance are at present handled poorly by some of our social housing institutions. The concern that this raises is that apart from publicly assisted housing, this is the sector on which we would greatly have to rely on for creating the kind of sustainable human settlements envisaged by our policies. It is therefore necessary that institutions within the sector are geared towards better managing their portfolios in order to provide a better service or product.
The business case for the envisaged regulatory authority has been finalised and approved to enable speedy implementation. The Bill was submitted to Cabinet during October 2006 for approval, after which process it was published in the Government Gazette for public comments. Its consultative process included the setting up of a task team consisting of provincial departments, metros and other stakeholders who all participated in the preparation of the official policy and guidelines that culminated in this Bill.
In addition, consultations also took place with the Social Housing Foundation, the National Treasury, the Department of the Public Service and Administration, the National Housing Finance Corporation, Dutch, Canadian and United Kingdom social housing experts, and the National Association of Social Housing Organisations. Further consultations were with 19 other institutions that included the Development Bank of Southern Africa, Yeast City Housing, Salga - the SA Local Government Association, the Banking Association, the SA Human Rights Commission and so on.
The depth of this consultation confirms the existing interest amongst public, private and community organisations in the performance of the social housing sector. All the comments, including those of the portfolio committee, have been duly considered and taken aboard in finalising the Bill.
We would like to thank the chairperson of the portfolio committee, Comrade Zoe Kota, and the members of the portfolio committee for the very able support in processing the legislation. I would therefore, with humility and pride, commend the Bill, which is truly overdue, to the House for approval. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms Z A KOTA: Sihlalo, [Chairperson,] Deputy Minister, comrades, colleagues, honoured guests, I greet you this afternoon. Please allow me, Chairperson, to dedicate my speech here today in memory of Comrade Norman Mashabane, who is the husband of the MEC for housing in Limpopo, Comrade Maite Nkoana- Mashabane. May his soul rest in peace.
The ANC-led government has an ongoing commitment towards creating sustainable human settlements and in order to achieve this objective the following has been identified as key principles to guide the housing policy: restoring and furthering the human dignity of every citizen; ensuring integrated development planning and funding alignment; providing quality products and an environment responsive to the demand of the targeted community; providing inner city regeneration and rental housing provision; bringing about maximum private sector involvement; and ensuring procurement compliance to provisions of the Constitution and the Public Finance Management Act.
Allow me to thank the members of the department, particularly Odette and the representative of the Minister, who is here, for the hard work they have been continually doing in ensuring that this legislation comes to Parliament today.
In June 2005 Minmec approved a social housing policy which intended to fill the policy vacuum in the social housing sector as the existing policy became insufficient to address the ever-changing environment. As a result new policy guidelines were developed and approved by Minmec in November 2006 to replace the original social housing policy which was formulated in 1997.
The new programme provides for a mix of government grants, private sector finance and equity, and allows for cross-subsidisation of the middle- to lower-income group, recognising the potential for improving urban efficiency and renewal by the development of social and rental housing in strategic urban localities. The social housing programme will be implemented through the establishment of a social housing regulatory agency. New grants for the enhancement of capacity of social housing that will develop, hold and manage the envisaged housing structure will be made available as well as providing new capital subsidies for the construction of social housing rental stock. Government will also continue to provide rental housing stock for the low end of the housing market through the community rental unit programme.
It is envisaged that the community rental programme will be able to substantially reach the low end of the market and provide affordable rental opportunities, and thus alleviate pressure from informal accommodation.
The community residential units will replace the hostel redevelopment programme to ensure elimination of the stigma surrounding hostels. The CRUs are aimed at correcting historical problems with public housing and hostels, and stabilising markets and the housing environment. The CRUs will benefit indigent and lower-income groups earning between R800 and R3 500.
The social housing policy, on the other hand, will be focusing on the private sector for profit and nonprofit sectors will also be mobilised in this process. The spin-offs from the social housing policy will be cross- subsidisation, mobilising the private sector also to focus on lower- and middle-income groups earning between R1 500 and R7 500.
Today we are happy as the portfolio committee to get this opportunity to deliberate on this piece of legislation. This marks the culmination of a long process of engagement by our committee with the social housing foundation on the desirability of the Bill. It is really long overdue. We are happy that a thorough process has been undertaken by the department to consult widely on the Bill. We as the committee have also been part of this process and we did undertake an international visit to learn from international best practices with the social housing foundation. The visit was organised by China Dodovu, now a mayor in the North West, and Odette. It became clear that Norway specialised in co-operative housing and housing banks, and in the Netherlands we realised that the rental housing stock received a special focus and that the private sector and the legal fraternity were centrally involved.
We are happy that the Breaking New Ground strategy of the Minister of Housing is paying particular attention to rental housing and drawing the private sector into this process. The national Department of Housing and its social housing institution saw the passage of this legislation through various stages, and the Social Housing Regulatory Authority is being put in place so that it can take over some of the activities of the Social Housing Foundation in a caretaker capacity. It will also provide a new working relationship and partnership in the sector.
The Bill is before Parliament today. We have been informed as the committee that guidelines which are necessary for this legislation have been completed. These guidelines are for the restructuring zones and the CRU programme. All these have been approved by the national Department of Housing. It is a fitting tribute to the Social Housing Foundation that it marks its ten years of existence by passing this piece of legislation. In the past ten years we have seen good growth in the number of social housing institutions to 39, and 52 000 units have been built over this period. Since its inception the Social Housing Foundation has played a key role in facilitating this process. It has seen funding organisations such as the National Housing Finance Corporation, and donor agents such as the EU, USAid, the Dutch Ministry and the Norwegian Embassy. We have also seen the formation of networks such as the National Association of Social Housing Organisations and trained a number of professional practitioners in this field and they continue to do research.
As we see, this is the culmination of hard work done in this sector. We are therefore happy with the progress. This Social Housing Bill is about the accreditation of social institutions so that the people who receive government grants are held accountable and that the process is transparent and ensures that at the end of the day the government gets value for money.
Secondly, we would also be responsible for approving projects in the restructuring zones so as to fast-track the process of integrating our communities in line with the Breaking New Ground strategy. The issue paramount to the ANC-led government is to continue the national priority of reorganising South African society by addressing structural, economic, social and spatial dysfunctionalities. Our objective is the integration of our communities and bringing our people closer to their places of work.
Deputy Minister, this piece of legislation is intended to assist the banks in making use of the R42 billion set aside for building houses and also implementing the social contract signed at the convention centre in 2006. So it is critical that we ensure that this piece of legislation does what it is intended for. What is important is that the ANC supports this and that we recognise the fact that the department has done a good job. We hope that it will assist in adding value to the housing arena, but we don’t want a situation … [Time expired.]
Ms Z A KOTA: Ixesha lam sele liphelile, Sihlalo? Xa kunjalo ke ndiyabulela. [Has my time expired, Chair? In that case I thank you.]
I do hope that this Bill will bring success to the housing market. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr A C STEYN: Chairperson, hon members, urban development in post-apartheid South Africa poses a dilemma. We face a situation where our urban environment has largely become locked into apartheid development patterns. While the racial boundaries are no longer so clear, the wealth boundaries are. Massive growth in property values over the past few years has put property effectively out of reach to the middle classes, and we have a situation where, amongst others, teachers and bank clerks – and, may I say, even Members of Parliament - simply cannot afford to live anywhere near their jobs, near good schools, or near the other resources that a city generally offers.
Therefore, if development is not guided in certain ways to make housing markets work for the poor and to restructure apartheid settlement plans, the poor will continue to be denied the opportunities they need to lift themselves out of poverty, and South Africa will never move away from the extremes of wealth and poverty that currently characterise our landscape.
There is an argument that we need to harness the energy of our vibrant, thriving large cities for true economic integration, empowerment and opportunity creation, rather than what is perceived as being just for the benefit of the already wealthy. I would like to presume it is with this noble intention in mind that the Department of Housing has developed its proposal for restructuring zones, as detailed in the Social Housing Bill before this House today.
Let us look at what is proposed in this Bill. The objectives of the integration programme, in terms of the policy outlined by the Department of Housing, are, firstly, to bring lower-income people into areas where there are jobs and provide accommodation which they would not otherwise be able to afford; secondly, job creation through the multiplier effect of higher- density developments; thirdly, a targeted and focused programme, not mass delivery; and fourthly, a rental or co-operative housing option for low- income persons at a level of scale and built form which requires institutionalised management and which is provided by accredited social housing institutions or in accredited social housing projects in designated restructuring zones.
The Social Housing Regulatory Authority, to be established in terms of this Bill, after identification by municipalities and provincial housing departments, will approve these restructuring zones. Various factors will have to be taken into account in approving a zone, including a sound restructuring logic, satisfactory identification of outputs, proper incorporation of the zones into normal planning purposes and due process, including consultation.
It is envisaged that these zones will be in the larger cities, where the intended housing development will not be in conflict with any existing land zoning and planning provisions. Nine metros or aspirant metros have already been identified.
The second phase will involve the identification of new zones, possibly in areas which could be described as more controversial and presumably where existing provisions relating to issues around zoning, planning and densification will need to be compromised to make the scheme work.
While social housing to date has not been sustainable, it is clear that social housing developments can, under certain conditions, work. However, one must look at the factors that are likely to determine the ultimate effectiveness of these zones.
Firstly, one has to take into account capacity, engagement and willingness of local officials to negotiate. The department’s new approach appears flexible and locally sensitive. This is the way it should be, but it does make the success or failure of social housing developments highly subject to local capacity. There are therefore likely to be many attempts to shortcut the process and to approve developments that will not meet the requirements as spelt out in the proposed policy.
Use of restructuring zones for political gerrymandering and a housing policy for politics must be avoided at all costs.
The policy document related to this Bill describing the process for the designation and management of restructuring zones goes to great lengths to put in place a process that is highly regulated and without sudden upheavals. In terms of the various integrated development zones across the country, the specific intention is to be uncontroversial and to tie in with existing nodes and development corridors.
Even if municipal officials do not have the skills and capacity to apply a process as envisaged by the Minister, they will be bound by it and it should not be permitted to shortcut any of the processes.
The DA will support this Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
Mr B W DHLAMINI: Chairperson, hon members, the IFP welcomes the initiative of the department to establish a legal framework to ensure a viable and sustainable social housing sector, which will also contribute to the overall functioning of the housing sector. A legal framework is needed by the social housing sector in order to create a level of certainty and predictability for implementing agencies to deliver larger numbers of housing units.
The overriding objective of the Breaking New Ground strategy is to ensure that housing contributes to the ongoing socioeconomic transformation of the nation, and in particular is instrumental in the reconstruction of South Africa’s cities and towns. Breaking New Ground suggests that social housing specifically be used as an instrument to achieve sustainable local development and the regeneration of depressed urban areas. The challenges will be to maintain effective focus with a subsidy instrument while not ignoring the wider issues and objectives.
However, the Social Housing Bill appears to deviate from attaining the above overall objectives and places greater emphasis on the immediate issues of day-to-day social housing delivery. The IFP supports this approach, which is not wrong per se. Therefore, the social housing sector will have to act as an instrument in the upliftment of depressed areas and for unlocking development potential in these areas.
A particular weak point in the current urban institutional arrangements is the fact that the responsibility for sustainable local area development is not well defined and also not allocated to a specific role-player.
The establishment of the regulatory authority is a necessary requirement which will play an important role in stabilising and supporting the social housing sector. Accreditation, monitoring and control are important issues to be addressed by the regulator. However, it should not add to further red tape and thus, by implication, further delays and costs.
One of the factors limiting the department’s ability to deliver is capacity. The IFP hopes that the existing capacity in the Social Housing Foundation can be transferred to the newly created regulatory authority for continuity.
The IFP supports the Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms S N SIGCAU: Chairperson and hon members, this Bill has long been expected. Chapter 2 of the Bill sets out the roles and responsibilities of all three tiers of government, as well as other delivery agents, with a view to creating an integrated framework within which every stakeholder will understand their role in the overall process. This also means that a great deal of oversight and management will be required to ensure that every participant in the process performs their duties adequately to avoid bottlenecks and delays in delivery. This is especially true at local government level where we are well aware that there is often a lack of capacity and management expertise to ensure prompt and adequate delivery of projects.
Chapter 3, in recognition of the importance of social housing as a significant component of the sector, provides for the establishment and duties of a Social Housing Regulatory Authority. The authority will have far-reaching powers. We hope that the people elected to lead this organisation will ensure that it becomes a fearless watchdog that protects the interests of the stakeholders, but especially the interests of the citizens who depend upon social housing.
The authority will also have the important duty of accrediting social housing institutions, advising the Minister on pertinent issues in the sector, and administering the disbursal of capital and institutional grants. All of these duties will place the authority in a powerful position to influence the direction and the growth of the social housing sector. The authority has been given the power to conduct inspections to monitor compliance and, where necessary, to intervene in the daily management of social housing institutions that have become regular settings for maladministration.
Finally, in Chapter 4 of the Bill, provision is made for the accreditation and functioning of social housing institutions. The criteria for the creation and operation of these institutions are very onerous and will hopefully be monitored by the Social Housing Regulatory Authority.
There is in this case therefore an overwhelming need to remain vigilant against unscrupulous elements who would shamelessly seek to enrich themselves or abuse the process at the expense of the low-income households who should be benefiting from the social housing programme.
The UDM supports the Bill. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.] [Time expired.]
Mr H B CUPIDO: Deputy Chairperson, the ACDP welcomes the Bill on social housing before the House today. Due to rapid urbanisation and the improvement in our economy, housing will always pose a great challenge to any government.
The Bill succeeds in stipulating the very important and different responsibilities of the three spheres of government in the process of housing delivery in South Africa. The general principles applicable to the social housing programme must be commended. The ACDP welcomes the attention to be given to the needs of women, children, people with disabilities and the elderly - especially to turn around the injustices of the past where poor people were located far away from economic nodes, by developing new housing closer and bringing economic development closer to the lower-income groups of our society.
We also welcome the effort to provide housing that will restore the dignity of our people and create a healthy environment to live in. We can never again allow our communities to develop into slum areas, and therefore we support the intention of the Bill to develop socially and economically viable communities to ensure the elimination and prevention of slum areas in the future.
Our people need community facilities of a higher standard which will secure quality of life for them. A concern of the ACDP, Chairperson, is the decline in building standards and the quality of houses, and we therefore urge the department really to give urgent attention to this matter.
The ACDP supports the Bill, but would urge government to ensure that capacity is provided in order for the principles of this Bill to be implemented successfully. We thank you.
Ms S RAJBALLY: Chairperson, when we look at poverty and the number of people who live in informal settlements that have little or no sanitary facilities and minimal access to potable water, we realise the great impact and pivotal role that social housing plays in the restructuring of lifestyles and living for many South Africans.
The MF acknowledges that government’s priority to eradicate poverty and enhance social development has turned around the lives and areas of many people. What we need to do is to enhance public confidence in our governance and increase the visibility of transformation in South Africa.
The department has introduced a pivotal Bill for social housing that certainly involves all spheres of government and the oversight of the sector. We are however concerned that how the roles of these spheres integrate in the social housing sector is vague and needs clarity if we are to inculcate policy effectively for all our people and to house them in South Africa.
The MF supports the Social Housing Bill. I thank you, Chairperson.
Mr L M GREEN: Chairperson, to house our nation will take considerable collaboration by all cross-sector stakeholders to bring about the best housing infrastructure suitable for our society. The Social Housing Bill provides such an opportunity, where stakeholders including government, communities, parastatals and private companies can provide clusters of housing that may be unique to local requirements yet create pride of place that is sustainable to the targeted occupants.
Facilitating delivery of social housing is driven by local administration offices. The role of municipalities is critical in this regard and the Bill stipulates the roles and responsibilities of municipalities. Given the range of duties that municipalities have to perform, and the fact that capacity in municipalities is at times wanting, this added responsibility will either enhance the capacity of municipalities to work effectively within a multistakeholder environment or add further burdens on the authority to deliver basic services.
The perspective of the FD is that the strength of the Social Housing Bill lies in the co-operative framework envisaged to achieve workable solutions for the housing needs of our people. It would be unwise, for instance, for a municipality to determine standards and objectives without proper consultation with the affected communities and social housing institutions on how to proceed with the targeted objectives in the delivery of social housing units.
We support the provision that social housing institutions must, on an ongoing basis, comply with criteria that qualify them for accreditation. What, however, must be done on a regular basis is for the regulatory authority to engage with the social housing institutions that only qualified and accredited contractors or subcontractors must be awarded tenders when required to do work on behalf of these institutions.
The regulating authority is required to regulate the conduct of social housing institutions and this must be standard procedure, and personnel must be employed to apply this duty regularly, to avoid the possibility of ongoing bad service from contracting companies.
One of the concerns around the delivery of social housing is whether social housing institutions may be able to offer units to those families with an income of about R1 500 per month. In order to be viable in the market, social housing institutions find it a huge challenge to provide rental accommodation for those earning less than R2 500 per month. It is reported that households earning less than R2 500 per month affect about 73% of the population; thus rendering affordable housing to these poor remains a critical problem.
Finally, it is for this reason that the FD supports the Social Housing Bill. I thank you.
Nksz B N DAMBUZA: Sihlalo ohloniphekileyo, uMphathiswa ohlonophekileyo nongekhoyo apha, kunye namalungu ahloniphekileyo, okokuqala mandiqinisekise amalungu athe aveza izimvo zawo mayelana noxhotyiso lwabantu okanye i- capacity building ukuba isebe liza kuqinisekisa ukuba luyenzeka. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[Ms B N DAMBUZA: Hon Chairperson, the hon Minister in absentia, and hon members; firstly, let me assure the members who expressed their concerns about capacity-building, that the department is going to make sure that it happens.]
I wish to assure hon members that the role of the Department of Housing is to ensure that all role-players are capacitated. If one reads the Social Housing Bill thoroughly, one will find that. Secondly, there are some uncertainties about whether the Social Housing Regulatory Authority will operate properly, but what we would like to say is that there are regulations, as my hon chairperson has said. The department has already drafted the regulations that are going to assist the process that is enshrined in this Bill.
The main objective of the ANC-led government is to develop and promote a sustainable social rental sector environment, primarily for the low- and medium-income group, at affordable rent. The Social Housing Bill is intended to regulate the social housing sector, obtaining the public funds from the government.
Notwithstanding the Breaking New Ground principles as applied to the social housing rental sector, it is important to acknowledge and commend the national Department of Housing, under the leadership of hon Minister Sisulu, for the introduction of a regulatory policy framework, which was adopted by Cabinet in 2005 and has led us to the stage where we are today.
We also acknowledge the critical role played by the Social Housing Foundation and their endless contribution in ensuring that social housing came to light in South Africa as well. With the support of the national department, today social housing institutions have emerged, but they still need support to keep them sustainable and to provide good quality housing. Ngokufutshane nje, loo nto ithetha ukuthi esi sakhiwo besifudula sisebenza phantsi kwezilungiso zemithetho ngemithetho elawula ezezindlu neziquka phakathi kwayo ulawulo lweemali zoncedo lwabucala kananjalo nenkxaso-mali yalo rhulumente wethu, nangona amandla ebemafutshane. (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[In short, that means this is the framework that was used under many Amendment Bills that prescribe housing affairs, which include amongst them, the allocation of private financial aid and financial assistance from our government, although it was not that much.]
As mentioned earlier, this Bill primarily covers the rental tenure option and therefore excludes immediate individual ownership by residents, as the housing subsidy scheme accommodates this option. The most significant importance of this Bill is the shift from a subsidy-bent approach to a project-based approach.
Loo nto ithethe ukunikwa kwamathuba kwiindidi zabantu abafuna izindlu, ngamaxabiso afikelelekayo, ngokwezidingo zabo, ingakumbi ezo zikufuphi neendawo zabo zokuxelenga. [That means giving opportunities to different kinds of people who need houses at affordable prices, according to their needs, and especially when those houses are close to their places of work. This is what is important - listen to me carefully.]
For that reason, it is important that the provision of social housing be demand driven. The Bill establishes the roles of the different stakeholders, the departments of housing provincially and nationally as well as local government. The state has fundamental tasks that can hardly be delegated to another sector, such as the constant provision of the legislative and regulatory framework, and capacity-building, including financial support and a policy framework. Therefore the Public Finance Management Act, the Municipal Finance Management Act, the Housing Act and the regulatory policies apply to the implementation of such programmes.
The Bill also seeks to define different forms of ownership for housing rental, tenant participation, the promotion of competition and consumer rights. Municipalities have to regulate land use and ownership, and provide access to infrastructure and services for social housing, etc.
The private sector will continue to plan, initiate and execute construction projects. This sector will produce a wide variety …
Into ebalulekileyo ke apha – nindimamele kakuhle … [This is what is important - listen to me carefully …]
This sector will produce a wide variety of services related to the maintenance and management of housing stock. These include not only small specialist building firms but also management, care-taking and accounting services.
Le nto ke ibaluleke kakhulu. Abantu mabangacingi ukuba baza kuvela nje bakhe izindlu bazishiye zinjalo, bangezi emva kwethuba ukuza kujonga nokulungisa amakhwiniba. Urhulumente ke ubonakalisa inkathalo kubantu bakhe. [This is very important. People should not think that they are going to just build houses, leave them like that, and not come to check and see whether there are cracks in the walls or whether there are any complaints that the tenants have about their houses. The government shows that it cares for the people.]
The National Housing Finance Corporation provides improved access to loan funding for social housing institutions, and also provides and facilitates access to guarantees for loan funding from private sector financial institutions.
The regulatory authority will provide financial assistance for social housing institutions through grants to service providers accredited subject to the passing of this Bill.
I-ANC iyawuxhasa lo Mthetho uYilwayo. [The ANC supports this Bill.] [Time expired.]
Debate concluded. Bill read a second time.
The House adjourned at 17:29. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
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The Minister of Safety and Security
(a) Proclamation No R.19 published in Government Gazette No 30162 dated 10 Augustus 2007: Notification by President in accordance with section 25 of the Protection of Constitutional Democracy against Terrorist and Related Activities Act, 2004 (Act No 33 of 2004).
(b) Proclamation No R.24 published in Government Gazette No 30252 dated 7 September 2007: Notification by President in accordance with section 25 of the Protection of Constitutional Democracy against Terrorist and Related Activities Act, 2004 (Act No 33 of 2004).
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The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development
(a) Proclamation No R.21 published in Government Gazette No 30245 dated 31 August 2007: Referral of matters to existing Special Investigating Unit and Special Tribunals in terms of the Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals Act, 1996 (Act No 74 of 1996).
(b) Proclamation No R.22 published in Government Gazette No 30245 dated 31 August 2007: Referral of matters to existing Special Investigating Unit and Special Tribunals in terms of the Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals Act, 1996 (Act No 74 of 1996). (c) Proclamation No R.23 published in Government Gazette No 30245 dated 31 August 2007: Referral of matters to existing Special Investigating Unit and Special Tribunals in terms of the Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals Act, 1996 (Act No 74 of 1996).
(d) Proclamation No R.25 published in Government Gazette No 30290 dated 12 September 2007: Referral of matters to existing Special Investigating Unit and Special Tribunals in terms of the Special Investigating Units and Special Tribunals Act, 1996 (Act No 74 of 1996).