National Council of Provinces - 27 March 2007
TUESDAY, 27 MARCH 2007 __
PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
____
The Council met at 14:04.
House Chairperson Mr T S Setona took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS - see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
Ms D ROBINSON: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move:
That the Council -
(1) expresses its concern and sympathy with the farming community in
the Free State who have experienced severe loss and trauma as a
result of the devastating fires that have destroyed vast tracts of
grazing land, especially on top of the drought that they are
suffering. This has brought enormous hardship to man and beast; and
(2) calls upon the Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs to show
her support for the agricultural sector by providing emergency
support.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Thank you, hon member. Your motion will be printed in full on the next Order Paper.
Mnr C J VAN ROOYEN: Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek by die volgende sitting van die Raad sal voorstel:
Dat die Raad —
1) kennis neem dat AgriSA in hulle nuusbrief Nr. 02/2007 gedateer 13
Februarie 2007 onder die opskrif “BEMOEDIGENDE GELUIDE OOR
MISDAADBEKAMPING” President Mbeki se erns om misdaad meer
doeltreffend te bekamp, soos tydens sy staatsrede op 9 Februarie
aangekondig, verwelkom;
2) verder daarop let dat AgriSA ook die President se bevestiging
verwelkom dat die Regering sal toesien dat die strategieë oor hoe
om misdaad te bekamp, behoorlik uitgevoer sal word, met inbegrip
van –
(a) die uitbreiding van die polisiemag van 152 000 tot meer as
180 000 lede binne die volgende drie jaar ... (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.) [Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that at the next sitting of the Council I will move:
That the Council -
(1) notes that in their newsletter No 02/2007 dated 13 February 2007 under the heading “BEMOEDIGENDE GELUIDE OOR MISDAADBEKAMPING”, AgriSA welcomes President Mbeki’s determination to combat crime more effectively, as announced in his state of the nation address on 9 February;
(2) further notes that AgriSA also welcomes the President’s confirmation that the Government will see to it that the strategies on how to combat crime are properly implemented, including –
(a) the expansion of the police force from 152 000 to more than 180
000 members within the next three years ...]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon member, I regret your time has expired. Your motion will be printed in full in the next Order Paper.
CONVICTED SEX CRIMINAL APPOINTED TO LEGISLATURE
(Draft Resolution) Mr A WATSON: Chairperson, I move on behalf of the DA and all concerned citizens, but particularly on behalf of all women that have been sexually harassed in one way or another:
That this Council –
1) notes with utter horror that the so-called sex pest, Mr Norman
Mashabane, was last week appointed as a member of the Limpopo
legislature;
2) further notes that the said Mr Mashabane has been found guilty of
no less than 22 counts of sexual harassment by the Department of
Foreign Affairs and that all the counts of guilt have subsequently
been ratified and confirmed by the High Court of South Africa;
3) therefore calls on the Council and all the members to condemn this
outrageous appointment, in line with our policy of protection and
empowerment of women and in sympathy with all the mothers, sisters
and daughters; and
4) calls on the President of the country to nullify the appointment as
a matter of urgency.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I rise on a point of order. We have a very clear agreement and procedure on any motion without notice which has political implications, like the motion without notice being raised by the hon member. It relates to a member of a provincial legislature who is so designated by a political party and no one can then deny that this has political implications.
Mr A WATSON: Chairperson, that is quite correct but that agreement was broken by the very same ANC the Chief Whip represents here, and I can quote the example of Mr Mack.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon member, you are out of order. Can you take your seat? I must make a ruling.
Hon members, I’ll have to be given the opportunity to go and refer to the relevant agreement between the various political parties and its standing in relation to the proceedings of the House. On the basis of those findings I will then come back to this House and make a ruling on this matter. Is that acceptable? We then proceed to further motions without notice.
DEATH OF FORMER PROTEAS CRICKET COACH BOB WOOLMER
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M O ROBERTSON: Chairperson, I move without notice:
That the Council —
(1) notes the tragic death of the Pakistan coach …
Mr A WATSON: Chairperson, on a point of order: I am sorry to interrupt my hon friend, but is it parliamentary for a member to say that I steal votes?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): What is the member saying?
Mr A WATSON: The member said how can I object when I steal votes? [Interjections.] You did say that.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Order, hon members! Hon Watson, as I am sitting here it is my duty to protect the decorum of this House, and it is equally my duty to protect any member of this House against any unparliamentary gesture or conduct by any member. Owing to the fact that I did not hear the hon member saying that, it is impossible - not just difficult - to make a ruling on something that I have not heard. I do have my staff here. It is unfortunate … [Interjections.]
No, this is not a tribunal so I do not have to ask him. This is a sitting of Parliament. Can we proceed hon members? Hon Robertson?
Mr E M SOGONI: Chair, I rise on a point of order. The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): What’s your point of order, hon Sogoni?
Mr E M SOGONI: Chairperson, the point of order is this: Is it also procedural for a member to interrupt another member when he is speaking, on a matter that is not related to what the member is saying, because the Rules are very clear about the occasions on which you can interrupt a member who is speaking? I think Mr Watson was also out of order himself.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon member, can you take your seat. Hon members, it is easy to say yes it is parliamentary or unparliamentary, but based on the evidence before me, it is not. I have not heard that member disrupting another and whatever, and I have made a ruling against the hon Watson. So can we proceed?
DEATH OF FORMER PROTEAS CRICKET COACH BOB WOOLMER
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M O ROBERTSON: Thank you, Chair. Chairperson, on a second attempt, I move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) notes the tragic death of the Pakistan coach, Bob Woolmer, who previously was coach of the Proteas; and
(2) extends its condolences to his family and the cricket fraternity at large.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SOUTH AFRICAN AIRWAYS BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
The MINISTER FOR PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Chairperson, many things are changing, I can see. [Laughter.] I think I’m making history; I’m probably the first Minister to speak under the new parliamentary emblem because I think we started earlier than the other House.
Chairperson, members of the Council, ladies and gentlemen in the gallery, the South African Airways Bill marks significant progress in the process of separating SAA from Transnet Ltd. The intention of the department is to focus Transnet on the movement of freight by rail, through the ports and within the petroleum pipelines.
SAA is a major enterprise in its own right and operates in an industry that has markedly different conditions to those of the rail and port freight systems. Accordingly, to ensure that there is full focus by the board and management of these differing domains, it has been decided to remove SAA from Transnet’s balance sheet and to move its shareholding to the Department of Public Enterprises.
The draft Bill gives legal effect to the decision to separate SAA from Transnet, which was set out in an agreement between Transnet, SAA and the Minister for Public Enterprises, acting in my capacity as the representative of government. As part of the conditions of that transaction we are bringing this Bill before Parliament - both Houses.
The Bill is largely a simple enabling piece of legislation. The portfolio committee raised the entirely valid point that if SAA was strategically so important that it be brought before this Parliament, then surely any change in its future status must also be important. And if this was the case, what role would Parliament play? The precise matter that precipitated this discussion was the provision that allowed for the conversion of SAA from a private company, as it is now, to a public company.
The majority of state-owned enterprises, or SOEs, that are major public entities under the Public Finance Management Act, such as Eskom and Transnet, are also indeed public companies. This status of a public company allows these entities to rely primarily on their balance sheets for purposes of funding their respective operations and reduces the extent of reliance on government guarantees. This is something we also wish to encourage for SAA. The ability to fund off a balance sheet essentially distinguishes state enterprises from government agencies and utility companies.
However, this issue raised an even more basic issue relating to any change of legal status of an SOE. It so happens within the Department of Public Enterprises, DPE, and along with work in the Department of the Public Service and Administration and the National Treasury that similar issues were under recent consideration.
We support a process in which major changes in the future will allow for a role for Parliament. The department is working on this body of legislation that will deal with the overall strategic shareholder management of the state-owned enterprises.
Accordingly, I’m happy to report that we are in agreement that this issue will be dealt with more effectively in the proposed legislation which will come before Parliament in the second half of this year.
A further departure from the enabling legislation of the other public entities is the insertion of a preamble to contextualise and specify the significance of SAA as a strategic asset to the state. This idea of a statement of the strategic intent is another thing that will be embodied in the shareholder management legislation. This is something that was agreed upon with the portfolio committee - that is the preamble - and is a precursor, as I say, to the overall approach to the shareholder management of SOEs in the draft legislation.
The preamble gives the basic strategic reasons for retaining ownership with the state in order that we retain strategic control of decision-making in SAA and therefore helps us promote air links with our main business, trading and tourism markets on the African continent and internationally.
As members may be aware, to contribute to the rapid growth of this continent, we need a strong aviation platform. South Africa and the continent are the third fastest growing markets in the global airline industry. The continent cannot grow faster without a strong aviation platform, and air transport is the only real form of transport on the African continent, given the underdeveloped transport infrastructure, the geographical landscape and the vast distances on our continent.
As we build up to the 2010 Fifa World Cup, it is important that South Africa has an effective and large airlift capacity both within our borders and to all the key destinations within Africa and the other continents.
SAA is a well-established airline with a very good reputation for safety and service. The airline industry is a very challenging and highly competitive industry. However, we are confident that we can stabilise and then grow the airline.
It is not our objective to compete with the large global airlines. Our objective is to provide an effective intercity network on the African continent and to reach out to major cities in all continents so that we become the preferred carrier to Africa and South Africa in particular.
Along with the regional carrier SA Express and the other flourishing private airlines in South Africa, we believe that we can increasingly improve the affordability and availability of air-passenger transport in Africa.
It is also pleasing to note that true low-cost airlines are taking firm root in South Africa and that there is healthy competition between them. This is a very positive development for air travel and I’m sure that it will spread more widely into the African continent as these African economies grow.
In conclusion, I’d like to thank the chairperson of the select committee and its members for the hard work and assistance they have provided the department and me in getting the Bill processed at such short notice. My thanks to the department and to SAA for all their hard work, which is much appreciated. I recommend to this House that we approve this Bill. Thank you. [Applause.]
Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, I stand before this Chamber to make a revolutionary statement, revolutionary in that I see possibilities for South African Airways that many people fail to see. While some believe that SAA is a mere commercial entity and a financial burden, I see it as a tool for change and progress.
There have been calls from those less committed to our country’s developmental agenda for this asset to be disposed of. Chairperson, hon members, it is our belief that selling SAA at this point in time will be a fundamental flaw.
Government has a growth target of 8% by the year 2014. By 2014 we would like to halve poverty and unemployment. Airfreight has a significant role to play in facilitating economic expansion. The airline industry allows for increased participation in the global market, thereby broadening the reach and accessibility of imported and exported goods.
Airfreight improves efficiency in the supply chain by shortening delivery time and making short cuts in red-tape bureaucracy possible. Many companies consider international transport links to be an essential factor for locating business, and air travel capacity is a key element for increasing domestic investment. If we are to achieve our target growth rates then we have to ensure that our airline is reliable, cost-effective and efficient. And for now this can best be achieved if the airline is in state hands or, in future, a public entity – who knows?
South Africa’s tourist potential is untapped. Tourism includes visits during holidays, visiting of friends and families, meetings, conferences, exhibitions and visiting for business purposes and retail shopping.
Labanye betfu siyaye sihambe nje sitsi sivakashela tihlobo tetfu, singanaki kutsi natsi sesibavakashi ngekwetfu. [Some of us travel and think that we are just visiting our relatives, without being aware that we are tourists too.]
Tourism is a labour-intensive industry, which can go a long way to address job creation, thus tackling poverty head-on, as well as small and micro enterprise development. In many developing countries it is a major contributor to the balance of payments and a significant source of foreign exchange. Affordable, good-quality air transport is essential if we are to fully exploit the opportunities offered by South Africa’s tourism industry.
Lastly, we are all committed to driving the implementation of the New Partnership for Africa’s Development, Nepad. How are we going to facilitate economic expansion on this continent? How are we going to ensure regional economic integration? How on earth are we going to ensure that Africa becomes a strategic player in the global economy without an effective air transport system, especially given the fact that the last Nepad summit decided to overhaul the Nepad Secretariat and formed the Nepad agency?
Currently, air transport in Africa is estimated to generate about 470 000 direct and indirect jobs, contributing over US$11,2 billion to the African gross domestic product. Defining SAA as a national entity will strengthen networks of current legacy airlines of Africa and make the continent a serious contender in the era of globalisation.
So to all those who are calling for SAA to be privatised, I say, now is not the time and I hope that time will never come. Of course SAA’s financial performance is worrisome. But we note that SAA has tightened its procurement and financial management systems and we believe that the balance sheets will be strengthened as these systems come into effect.
We also recognise that the airline industry is a volatile one affected by many exogenous factors, but we trust that SAA will incorporate these elements into business planning.
SAA is positioning itself to be the leading African network operator and to develop SAA Cargo as the operator of first choice in the sub-Saharan region. Its acceptance as one of the 18 full members of the Star Alliance demonstrates that the international community has a high level of confidence in the airline’s management and service ability.
The Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises therefore welcomes the introduction of the South African Airways Bill. The Bill moves SAA off the Transnet balance sheet, thereby allowing Transnet to concentrate on freight logistics. We believe that having SAA as a stand-alone entity is a positive step. It will now allow for the streamlining of responsibilities, and tightening of management, and will enable the airline to focus on strengthening its balance sheet. We believe that the department has taken a bold step to resist the strong tides which threaten to sink SAA. The Bill has our full support.
We also welcome the decision to involve Parliament in the overall shareholder management legislative process, particularly the commitment to ensure that Parliament be consulted when any changes are made to the composition and structure of ownership of state- owned enterprises.
We would like to thank the department, the Minister and SAA in particular for the thorough explanation of the process. The Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises supports the Bill as it stands. I thank you. [Applause.]
Me J F TERBLANCHE: Agb Voorsitter, agb Minister Erwin, kollegas, op 26 Julie 2006 het die Kabinet dit goedgekeur dat die SAL van Transnet geskei sal word as deel van Transnet se nuwe vierpunt-omkeerstrategie. Wat dit effektief beteken, is dat die SAL oorgedra word vanaf Transnet na die regering en dat dit gereguleer sal word soos alle staatsbeheerde openbare ondernemings. In daardie stadium is daar ook besluit dat die SAL as staatsbeheerde openbare onderneming direk aan die Minister moet rapporteer.
Ingevolge klousule 4 van die wetsontwerp mag die Minister van Openbare Ondernemings die SAL omskakel in ’n publieke maatskappy nadat die maatskappy oorgedra is aan die staat.
Dit blyk uit dokumente wat aan die komitee verskaf is, en die memorandum oor die doel van die wetgewing, dat die rede vir die oordrag van die SAL nie net gaan oor die beskerming van die SAL as een van die oudste lugrederye ter wêreld nie, maar ook oor die onbestendigheid van die lugredery-industrie.
Die vraag wat ek egter wil vra, is: Gaan dit nie eerder oor die finansiële beskerming van ’n lugredery wat in die verlede al telkemale deur die belastingbetaler gered moes word nie?
’n Verdere rede tot kommer is die inligting wat aan die lig gekom het nadat die Nasionale Vergadering die wetsontwerp op 1 Maart 2007 goedgekeur het, naamlik dat die uitvoerende hoof van die SAL volgens die Kantoor van die Registrateur van Maatskappye en Intellektuele Eiendom, Cipro, ’n direksielid van 38 instansies is. Die Parlement se Staande Komitee oor Openbare Rekenings het verder bevind dat ’n ander direksielid 55 direkteurskappe beklee en dat die 11 direkteure van die SAL gesamentlik 220 direkteurskappe beklee.
Die kommentaar deur Prof Jakes Gerwel, Voorsitter van die SAL-direksie, dat ernstige onreëlmatighede plaasgevind het en dat die gebrek aan korrekte beheer, prosedures en stelsels by die SAL die ergste is wat hy nog by enige instansie waarby hy al ooit betrokke was, teëgekom het, is verdere rede tot kommer.
Ek sal graag van die Minister die versekering wil hê dat die probleme wat tans by die SAL ervaar word indringende aandag sal geniet en dat die belastingbetaler nie weer sal moet opdok vir verliese wat na verwagting weer gely gaan word wanneer die huidige boekjaar op 31 Maart ten einde loop nie.
Laastens, indien die SAL begin om meer Afrikaans te besig op sy vlugte in stede van die oorwegende Engels en meer verbruikersvriendelike diens by inweegtoonbanke te lewer, sal ek dit oorweeg om die nasionale lugredery meer gereeld te ondersteun in stede van die lugredery wat ek tans gebruik, waar ek altyd uitstekende diens kry. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Ms J F TERBLANCHE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister Erwin, colleagues, on 26 July 2006 the Cabinet approved SAA’s separation from Transnet as part of Transnet’s new four-point turnaround strategy. This effectively means that SAA will be transferred from Transnet to the government and that it will be regulated like all state-owned public enterprises. At that stage it was also decided that SAA, as a state-owned public enterprise, should report directly to the Minister.
In terms of clause 4 of the Bill, the Minister for Public Enterprises may convert SAA into a public company after the company has been transferred to the state.
It is clear from the documents provided to the committee and the memorandum on the objects of the legislation that the reason for transferring SAA not only has to do with protecting SAA as one of the oldest airlines in the world, but also with the volatility of the aviation industry.
However, the question that I would like to ask is: Is this not about the financial protection of an airline that actually had to be rescued by the taxpayer time and time again in the past?
Another reason for concern is the information that came to light after the National Assembly approved the Bill on 1 March 2007, namely that, according to the Companies and Intellectual Property Registration Office, Cipro, the chief executive of SAA is a member of the board of directors of 38 organisations. Furthermore, Parliament’s Standing Committee on Public Accounts found that another board member holds 55 directorships and that the 11 directors of SAA collectively hold 220 directorships among them.
Another reason for concern is the comment by Prof Jakes Gerwel, Chairperson of the Board of Directors of SAA, that serious irregularities had occurred and that the lack of proper control, procedures and systems at SAA is the worst that he has ever encountered in any organisation in which he has been involved.
I would like to have the assurance from the Minister that the problems currently experienced by SAA will receive urgent attention and that the taxpayer will not have to cough up once again for the expected losses SAA is again going to suffer when the current financial year ends on 31 March.
Finally, if SAA would start using Afrikaans more often during its flights instead of using English predominantly, and have a more user-friendly service at weigh-in counters, I would consider supporting the national airline more often instead of the one that I am currently using, and from which I always receive excellent service. [Applause.]]
Mr D G MKONO: Dumelang! [Greetings everybody!] [Interjections.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Should I make a ruling first? I do not have two speakers’ lists and this is not my mistake. I have one speakers’ list and when I called the hon member to the podium, I was told that I had an old speakers’ list. So my ruling is that this is not my problem. The hon member is, of course, on the speakers’ list and I cannot let him go back and then call another member. So we will proceed – this is not my mistake. The Table staff will correct that. Thank you. You can proceed, hon Mkono. Sorry about that.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I was under the impression that we are using the speakers’ list appearing on our expensive technological system.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): It has caused me trouble, hon Chief Whip, you’ll remember. You are the one who was on my case when I preferred to use the technological system, unaware that it had changed. As I was reading the speakers’ list, members were fighting me about not being at a certain number, etc. So I have decided that I will comply with this one that is certified by the Table staff. That is the dilemma. Can we proceed? Mr D G MKONO: I am caught by surprise, but the ruling is fine by me.
Chairperson, Minister and hon members of the NCOP, it is with a sense of occasion that I speak as a member of the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises on the South African Airways Bill which, inter alia, attempts to facilitate the transfer of SAA shares and interest from Transnet to the state – which I am sure will go a long way in promoting investor confidence, both in the domestic and international economy.
Having listened to the Chairperson of the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises on how she tabulated the objects and content of this legislation, I will not repeat her.
Uyibeke yacaca gcaa okomva webhokhwe, Mama. [What you have said is crystal clear, hon member.]
You see, because this gives SAA an opportunity to focus on its core functions of passenger transport services and cargo transport services, air charter services and other related services will be vital to South Africa’s economic development and other developments.
The strategic importance of SAA in the region and on the continent also requires that the airline be capable of fulfilling its core mandate.
This is a progressive piece of legislation that I am sure, if sustained and extended, will enhance the gateway to the 2010 World Cup where the enthusiasm of the people has to be mobilised; where unity of the people on the continent has to be infused into our daily lives and practices, inspired by our culture.
In conclusion, the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises endorses this Bill and calls on all the members of this House to support the Bill, because this Bill also explicitly states that this conversion does not affect the terms and conditions of service of any employee of SAA.
Ngoko sicela libe linye. [Therefore we request that we speak with one voice.]
Thank you, Chairperson.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Hon Chairperson, I thought your ruling said that you were using speakers’ list L2. I am not sure whether you have that copy?
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon Chief Whip, I only have L2. I was told the other one was wrong. When I called the hon Mkono, the incorrect list was taken away from me by the officer in front of me. I only have the one that he has given me.
Could the House please bear with me? In terms of this list, the one that I am told is the correct one and that was given to me late, the hon Mkono was the eighth speaker and was to speak before the hon Minister replied to the debate. Hon Mabe is fourth. So ordinarily I wouldn’t want to cause fundamental changes in the speakers’ list. The only omission was that, in terms of this one, I was supposed to have called the hon Mabe, but I called the hon Mkono. It is fitting and proper that I must call the hon Mabe. I am sure that is understandable.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I wouldn’t like to delay the proceedings of this august House, but I would like this matter to be dealt with immediately after this plenary, since my office is the one responsible for the final compilation of the speakers’ list. If it is in accordance with the earlier speakers’ list you were referring to, then it would mean that Ms Mabe should be the second last speaker before the Minister responds. Thank you.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon Chief Whip, hon members, unless I am guided otherwise, the speakers’ list I have in front of me, which I opened the proceedings with, started with the hon Minister, followed by the chairperson, followed by the hon Terblanche. As I called the hon Mkono, there was a problem. I was told that it was the wrong list and I was given this list. In terms of it, the hon Mabe is the fourth speaker. Okay? [Interjections.] I think we can proceed. This is not a matter of life and death, really.
Mrs E S MABE: House Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, special delegates and special guests, since the democratic breakthrough in 1994, the country has moved from being a country existing outside the international community to one that has become an active participant in global institutions and processes.
South Africa has taken its responsibilities as a global citizen seriously, both globally and continentally. South Africa takes pride in SAA and has made it a point that we live up to the standards that we set for ourselves as a democratic country.
In his message in Sawubona magazine, the CEO of SAA, Mr Khaya Ngqula, said that SAA “remains our number one focus as the leading airline on the continent, and the only African airline to belong to the Star Alliance of International Airlines. We take our role as aviation leaders seriously.”
Knowing the challenge that was faced by SAA, we believe that converting it into a state-owned company will place it in an even better position to market our country in all the places our flights frequent. This will also allow us as a country to have proper oversight over something which is the pride of our nation.
We as the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises foresee that this is one move that will ensure the prosperity of SAA, and the benefits will show. The country will shine during 2010 and beyond. Therefore, we appreciate the move.
Our foreign policy is informed at the core by building a better world and a better Africa. Our primary focus is the renewal of the African continent and the strengthening of the building of developing countries through south- to-south relations. SAA, the nation’s pride, is translating that policy into reality by increasing people-to-people contact.
SAA has increased its presence on the African continent, and the countries that have been added as destinations of late are Livingstone in Zambia, Accra in Ghana, and Entebbe in Uganda, and there are other agreements which SAA is entering into.
Looking at it, the national airline is a key instrument that showcases the face of South Africa – its warmness, its receptiveness and its responsiveness to the continent and the world. There is no other instrument that shows its presence and footprint like SAA.
It is in that context that we in the ANC support the separation of SAA, the nation’s pride, from the Transnet group. The state, as the sole shareholder, will give undivided attention to the airline and will support the nation’s pride as much as possible to ensure that people and goods are transported to the various destinations on time. Efficiency of the airline is critical in this pressured and highly competitive industry.
I want to conclude by saying that the executives should involve Parliament at all times in the changes that take place in state-owned enterprises, including SAA. Thank you. [Applause.]
Mr N D HENDRICKSE: Hon Chair, hon Minister and hon members, as SAA is not core to Transnet’s freight business, the decision to separate it is the correct one. I want to say that upfront.
However, what is needed for a rapidly developing economy that requires reliable and extensive air transport capacity is expressed in the state’s desire to promote air links. In terms of the state’s developmental orientation, South African Airways is regarded as the national carrier and a strategic asset that would enable the state to preserve its ability to contribute to key domestic interregional and international air linkages. The state intends to retain it as the national carrier.
However, the recapitalisation of South African Airways must be based on a model which is sustainable and which takes into account the growth of a low- cost airline sector which is likely to take away some market share from SAA. The positioning of Mango in this regard is critical, and its precise relationship with SAA in terms of finance arrangements must be sorted out.
However, the shareholders management Bill which will be dealt with later this year is critical to speaking to government’s arrangements: Why does the Department of Public Enterprises want to include developmental objectives in an airline and what would be the implications thereof? One interpretation might be that if an airline operates in a commercial environment, it might be expected to fulfil developmental objectives at the expense of commercial objectives. That would then have implications for the viability of the balance sheet of the airline.
It is possible to assume that developmental objectives might have been imposed on the airline and these would not be appropriate at this time. It would be assumed that these objectives were imposed over and above the defined economic objectives as stated in sentence one to the preamble.
It is clear that the state regards SAA as the national carrier and a strategic asset, as it will assist the state with certain things and this is the reason the state intended to retain it as the national carrier.
SAA finds itself in financial trouble once again and Minister Erwin is committing government to refunding the airline, possibly with R4 billion, arguing that it is vital for the state to keep control. Why? The airline cannot serve the poor; at best it can provide some strategic role in establishing businesses and tourism links, but SAA has done neither.
In fact, tourism officials cite it as a major obstacle to boosting the tourism trade to South Africa as it opposes giving more routes to foreign airlines. In launching its own heavily subsidised low-cost carrier, Mango, in South Africa, it is starting a competitive market that is functioning well and has boosted affordable air travel in South Africa. We, however, do support the Bill, Minister. [Time expired.]
Ms A N T MCHUNU: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister of Public Enterprises, hon Chairperson of the Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises, hon members and our supporting staff, the debate on the South African Airways Bill came at the right time as we are experiencing environmental turbulence in the form of tornados and cyclones.
In times of uncertainty when roads and bridges are washed away, air transport remains the only option to save people and the universe. My own experience dates back to 1987 when we had to assist communities that had experienced floods and cyclones. I ended up seeking to lease aeroplanes to reach various places.
The proposal to have South African Airways removed from Transnet to be a public enterprise as a public company is commended. The present scenario of involvement in the whole of Africa necessitates urgent governmental decisions in terms of having flights go to areas that need help. I take as an example the trips we made during the DRC elections, where roads were in terrible conditions.
As we prepare for 2010, strong air transport is a must, as is the transportation of certain goods urgently, like fresh food, vegetables and flowers. [Interjections.] Oh yes, I am coming to that. [Laughter.]
That is the gold of Africa - let’s just say that. Our South African Airways has to be a stand-alone entity to make sure that we benefit quickly from it without our getting entangled perhaps in long debates on the issue of public ownership.
Other problems will be dealt with internally. The IFP supports the Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
Ms B L MATLHOAHELA: I greet the hon Chairperson and the hon Minister, all protocol having been observed. It was about time, when the Minister for Public Enterprises approved Transnet’s four-point turnaround strategy during 2004. This strategy focuses on the core freight services. The intention that SAA be a stand-alone state-owned enterprise and that it report directly to the hon Minister are good intentions. Also, the intention of the state to use SAA to promote its main business, trading and tourism links within the African continent and internationally is applauded.
We understand that this will contribute to a strong aviation platform to assist in the development of the economic growth of the continent. This, we trust, will have a stronger impact on Africa in that our neighbouring brothers and sisters will be able to make a good living within their own countries. If we can achieve that, then xenophobia in South Africa may diminish.
However, the state will have to look at service improvement and security with regard to luggage. We believe that there is insurance in that employees will be granted a deal that is not less than what they are getting now. Mango, in some ways, is giving good prices for making use of their services and enabling the underprivileged to also know what it means to fly in an aircraft, hence competition is promoted.
We trust that SAA, under the shareholdership of the state, will give all South African citizens a happy flying experience. The ID is not against the Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
The MINISTER FOR PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Thank you, Chairperson, and thank you to all the hon members for their contributions and the support that was given. Let me deal with a few specific issues that have come up, reply to them and then also respond to some of the important issues that have been raised by members in various ways.
Firstly, on the question of more Afrikaans, I am sure many languages could be spoken, quite clearly. I don’t think that we should assign our loyalties to an airline on the basis of any particular language. The cabin crew and the pilots, if you have noticed, do try to vary their languages according to what they can speak, but quite clearly we can’t just take another language other than English, which is turning out to be global in the airline industry, and promote that.
Our aim is to be friendly and approachable to all. I think that what we are very proud of is that if you look at the cabin crew of SAA, it is extremely diverse and very representative of South Africans, and on most flights you would probably find virtually all South African languages spoken by somebody other than the Minister who is sitting in the front.
Some other points have been raised. Let me deal specifically with the suggestion that SAA is an obstacle to tourism. I think we must be realistic. SAA is far and away the biggest carrier in and out of South Africa and inside South Africa. In fact, this is one of the key reasons that we have to consider in terms of keeping it as the staple airline.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon Minister and hon members, can I, without mentioning names, say that there is a tendency, and it is very persistent, of members soliciting me to make a ruling when they persistently haggle amongst each other even when the Minister is speaking. Can I call for self-restraint on the part of those members, without mentioning names? When they say wrong things to each other, they rise on a point of order: “Protect me against this.” But when they talk and haggle with each other, they don’t say, “Chairperson, now we are haggling; stop the Minister so that we do the same.”
The MINISTER FOR PUBLIC ENTERPRISES: Thank you, Chairperson, for that protection. Fortunately, having had much union experience I think it is quite mild, but thank you for the protection. [Interjections.] But you should keep quiet … [Inaudible.] I don’t want to disagree with the Chairperson; you should please keep quiet especially when I am talking. [Laughter.]
The notion that SAA is an obstacle, as I have indicated, is not correct because from the pure size of the carriage it is crucial to our tourism industry. There are certain disputes with some airlines about the number of slots we have and these are the things we would like to overcome. The question can be turned the other way round and that’s a very important point. That’s why, as I will explain later, the state is prepared to capitalise the airline.
SAA is so significant in our market that there is absolutely no guarantee that if it were to fail anyone could replace it. This is really something you have to consider and I will come back to that in a moment. I think SAA is absolutely central to not only air traffic in South Africa and most of Africa, but also to tourism. It really is crucial.
Other members have raised important points and I will cover them very quickly. I have just stated how important SAA is. I have said this before and I am saying it again: SAA is a national asset. There are only a handful of countries in the world that have an airline as large, as old and with a reputation that SAA has. Now this is something that we can all justifiably be proud of and it is a great credit to all those who have worked in SAA over many years. It is a very important asset, particularly for South Africa as it grows and particularly for us as we expand into the World Cup period, and particularly for Africa.
This is not some kind of ideological position we have taken that must be in state hands. We have just looked at the facts. Can we be certain that an airline as big and as effective as SAA would replace it if we sold or closed it? We can’t.
Also, those of you who have studied the airline industry - and if you were looking at it now - will see that an exceptionally important agreement has just been reached. If you have been watching, you would know that this is between the European Union and the United States. This agreement will, if implemented, although there is some doubt about this, completely change the whole scenario for European airlines.
They can fly from different cities into the United States - United States airlines can fly in. Now, if I am British Airways or Lufthansa or Air France or United Airlines, which market do you think I am going to take more seriously: South Africa or Europe-US? It is obvious. I have to take Europe-US more seriously.
That is not because they don’t like us or anything like that. It is because the competitive environment in the traffic between the US and Europe will be so intense that no management or board of any airline operating in that area can possibly avoid focusing their minds on it. So, as we try to expand our air traffic, it may well be that everyone else says, “Look, South Africa, we love you, but we haven’t got the resources to put in more flights.”
I think we must not lose sight of this. This decision has been taken carefully and a major agreement like that happening across Europe and the US is exactly the kind of thing we foresaw leading to some difficult situations. The question is, and it is a valid one: Should the state, with taxpayers’ money, capitalise SAA? Now, that is something we had to think hard about. It is a difficult situation.
The reality is that SAA has been under the wing, if you like, of Transnet, a much bigger company. So its capital needs have been hidden. You can’t see them, because they are on the Transnet balance sheet. What we saw was - and it was a very difficult and unfortunate moment, and SAA was not the only company that suffered from this – that we made massive losses on the hedge books. Virtually every South African private company also lost money on those hedge books. What we see is that we have had to make up for that loss, but it didn’t add any new capital to SAA. So you’ve taken SAA out of Transnet in a position where it’s pretty much flat- what’s called “its gearing ratio” - the borrowing to equity is very high.
Those of you who are familiar with financial matters know that you can’t have a gearing ratio that high. It makes you vulnerable to the fluctuations in revenue; it makes it almost impossible for you to borrow further money. So we will put some more capital into SAA to give it a reasonable chance to move forward, but on the basis that it carry out certain key restructuring actions. These are essentially to focus its attention, as someone quoted the Chief Executive Officer, to be an African airline that reaches out globally and has links with some of the key cities on every single continent.
We will also be simplifying the structure. We will be bringing equity partners into the cargo business and into the technical business. We are taking steps to stabilise and strengthen SAA. We are now doing a thorough analysis of all our costs, the efficiency operations and how we can change those.
We have to capitalise SAA, but we are not doing it in a mindless way. We are doing it on the basis that there are challenges and targets that they have to meet in order to move forward. This is the way we intend moving forward.
SAA cannot expect, as we have indicated, that we can always bail it out. The challenge for us as the Department of Public Enterprises and SAA is to make certain that we can turn this airline around for the reasons I indicated at the beginning- it is a very important airline.
The impact on the South African economy - on our tourism markets - of any failure in SAA will be very big indeed, and any sale into the private sector is too uncertain as to what their long-term objectives will be. So for the foreseeable future we intend to keep SAA in state hands and we intend turning around its financial performance and its service and operating performance, which I must say is good and will be improved. I think those of you who have travelled the world are not going to find many airlines where the service is as good as SAA. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): I shall now put the question. The question is that the Bill be agreed to. In accordance with Rule 63, I shall first allow political parties an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. Is there any party that wants to make a declaration of vote? No. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. Those in favour say “Aye”. Those against say “No”.
I think the ayes have it. The majority of members have voted in favour. I therefore declare the Bill agreed to in terms of section 75 of the Constitution. [Applause.]
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
IMMIGRATION AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
Mr O J TLHAGALE: Hon Chair and hon members of this House, the Minister of Home Affairs the hon Mapisa-Nqakula introduced the Immigration Amendment Bill, Bill 28 of 2006, as a section 75 Bill in the National Assembly. The explanatory summary of the Bill was published in Government Gazette No 29169 on 31 August 2006. The Immigration Amendment Bill was referred to the Select Committee on Social Services on 2 November 2006, and the department formally briefed the committee on 27 February 2007. The main objective of the Bill is to effect certain technical corrections to the Immigration Act in order to amend and insert certain definitions. The Bill substitutes the definition of “depart” or “departure” to make it clear that a departure means exiting from the Republic of South Africa, from a port of entry, to another country. It also provides for the clarification of the revision of procedures and permits with regard to admission to residence in and departure from the Republic.
The Bill also sets out to amend certain sections of the Act with generally accepted drafting principles and to provide for certain transitional matters.
With regard to the Bill’s objectives, it seeks to include cross-border and transit permits provided for in section 24 of the Act as temporary residence permits referred to in section 10 of the Act. Section 10 of the Act requires a foreigner who is not a holder of a permanent residence permit to enter the Republic only if he or she is in possession of a temporary residence permit issued by the director–general.
The Bill further seeks to increase the period for which an intra-company transfer work permit in section 19 of the Act may be issued. It further seeks to provide for the issuing of an appropriate permit to the spouse or dependent children accompanying the holder of a retired person permit. It also provides for the withdrawal of a permanent residence permit if the holder thereof has been convicted of an offence in terms of the Act.
The Bill also seeks to provide for certain technical corrections to the Act. The Bill provides amendments to sections 10 to 23 which set out stipulations pertaining to temporary residence. These sections currently list the permits provided as temporary residence permits that may be issued to a foreigner to the exclusion of the section 24 permits. Therefore the amendments seek to include cross-border and transit permits as contained in section 24 as temporary residence permits.
Section 11 of the Act currently provides that the holder of a visitor’s permit may not conduct work unless authorised by the director-general in the prescribed manner and subject to the prescribed requirements of the conditions. The amending Bill thus seeks to restrict the application of section 11(2) to conducting work in the Republic.
Currently, section 20 does not make provision for a holder of a retired person permit to be accompanied by his or her spouse and dependent children. The spouse and dependent children of a retired person permit holder may currently only accompany the holder with a visitor’s permit issued for a period of three months. This may be renewed upon application for a further period of three months. Therefore, subsection 21(a) is inserted to provide for the issuing of an appropriate permit to the spouse and dependent children accompanying the holder of a retired person permit.
Section 28, dealing with the withdrawal of a permanent residence permit, is amended in paragraph (a) in order to provide for the withdrawal of a permanent residence permit by the director-general if the holder thereof has been convicted of any offence in terms of this Act.
In conclusion, and on the basis of the aforementioned exposition of the Bill, I propose that the honourable House support this amending Bill. I thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Thank you, hon member. I shall now put the question. The question is that the Bill be agreed to.
In accordance with Rule 63, I shall first allow political parties an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish.
We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. Those in favour say “Aye”, and those against “No”. All the members voted in favour. I therefore declare the Bill agreed to in terms of section 75 of the Constitution. [Applause.] Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
SOUTH AFRICAN RED CROSS SOCIETY AND LEGAL PROTECTION OF CERTAIN EMBLEMS BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
Ms N F MAZIBUKO: Chairperson, regarding the background to the South African Red Cross Society and Legal Protection of Certain Emblems Bill, Bill 25 of 2006 …
… iNingizimu Afrika ingenye yamanye amazwe abamba iqhaza emihlanganweni yase-Geneva mhla ka-12 Agasti 1949. [… South Africa is one of the countries that participated in the Geneva Conventions of 12 August 1949.]
They are the Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field, the first convention; the Geneva Convention for the Amelioration of the Condition of Wounded, Sick and Shipwrecked Members of Armed Forces at Sea, the second convention; the Geneva Convention relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, the third convention; and the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War, the fourth convention.
Iphinde futhi iNingizimu Afrika ibe ngelinye lamazwe abamba iqhaza ngenkathi kwakhiwa imigomo yokuziphatha ebizwa ngama-protocols. [South Africa is furthermore one of the countries that participated in the creation of the Code of Conduct called Protocols.]
These are the Protocol Additional to the Geneva Conventions relating to the Protection of Victims of International Armed Conflicts, which is Protocol 1; and the Protocol relating to the Protection of Victims of Non- International Armed Conflicts, which is Protocol 2.
Although states that are party to the conventions adopted the Protocol relating to the Adoption of an Additional Distinctive Emblem, South Africa has not ratified it yet. Thus, in terms of Protocol 3, another emblem, which is the red crystal - was adopted in addition to the three existing emblems. The Bill, however, recognises the two emblems that are currently in use.
The conventions and protocols are commonly referred to as “the conventions”. These conventions emphasise the importance of the International Committee of the Red Cross – the main body of the Red Cross Movement – as well as the importance of national Red Cross societies in relation to humanitarian activities in times of war as well as in times of peace. The Red Cross and the Red Crescent Movement play a critical role during war and disasters by providing care for victims and other people, without any partiality.
Maqondana neNhlangano Yesiphambano Esibomvu, kulo Mthethosivivinywa ebesiwenza, ingxenye yokuqala ibhekene nokuxazulula lawa amagama abhalwe kuwona. Ingxenye yesibili yona ichaza kabanzi ukuthi iyini yona le Nhlangano Yesiphambano Esibomvu. Kusukela kwingxenye yesibili kuya kwingxenye yesithathu kuvezwa ukuthi kungani iNhlangano Yesiphambano Esibomvu ibalulekile lapha eNingizimu Afrika kanye nohlu okufanele ngabe isebenza ngalo mayelana nesigatshana sesibili nesigatshana sesithathu.
Mayelana nezimpawu zama-emblem ezichazwe ngaphansi kweNhlangano Yesiphambano Esibomvu, olokuqala yilolu lwesiphambano esibomvu, olwesibili kube yi-red crescent moon, olwesithathu kube yibhubesi elibomvu nelanga – kodwa ezingasasetshenziswa.
Isivumelwano sona silawula khona ukuthi izimpawu ezikuloluhlu kufanele sizisebenzise kanjani, nokuthi yiziphi izimo lapho kungafanele sizisebenzise khona. Kunemiyalelo ebekiwe ukuze abantu bangazitholi bezisebenzisa lapho kungadingeki khona. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[With regard to the Red Cross Society in this Bill that we were discussing, Part One deals with the definitions of terms used in this Bill. Part Two explains clearly what this Red Cross Society really is. From Part Two to Part Three there is an explanation of why the Red Cross Society is important to South Africa, and operational procedures are listed in terms of sub-sections two and three.
Regarding the emblems described under the Red Cross Society, the first one is that of the Red Cross Society, the second one is the Red Crescent moon, the third one is the Red Lion and Sun, which is no longer in use.
The convention controls the prescription regarding the use of emblems and also mentions certain instances in which they must not be used. There are conditions that are stipulated so that people can not find themselves using these emblems where they are not supposed to.]
Part Four of the Bill contains the general provisions relating to delegations and assignments, regulations, and the effect on implementation of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court Act, Act 27 of
- Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Order! I shall now put the question. The question is that the Bill be agreed to. In accordance with Rule 63, I shall first allow political parties an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish.
We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. Those in favour say “Aye”, and those against “No”. All members voted in favour. I therefore declare the Bill agreed to in terms of section 75 of the Constitution.
Bill agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
FOODSTUFFS, COSMETICS AND DISINFECTANTS AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Report of Mediation Committee)
Order disposed of without debate.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Order! As there is no speakers’ list, I shall now put the question in respect of the Fourth Order. The question is that the report of the Mediation Committee be agreed to. As this decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the House. Are all delegation heads present? [Interjections.]
In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. There are none. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chairperson whether they vote in favour of, against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape? The Eastern Cape is absent. Free State?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Free State is in favour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Gauteng?
Mr S SHICEKA: Gauteng supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal elethu. [KwaZulu-Natal supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Limpopo?
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Ke ya rena. [Limpopo supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Mpumalanga supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Noord-Kaap ondersteun. [Northern Cape supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): North West? Mr A J L MOSEKI: North West re a dumela. [North West supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Western Cape?
Mr N J MACK: Western Cape supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Eight provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
FOODSTUFFS, COSMETICS AND DISINFECTANTS AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill)
Order disposed of without debate.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): As there is no speakers’ list, I shall now put the question. The question is that the Bill be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the House. Are all delegation heads present? [Interjections.]
In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish.
We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour of, against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape? The Eastern Cape is absent. Free State?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Ondersteun. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Gauteng?
Mr S SHICEKA: Siyaxhasa, Sihlalo. [We support, Chairperson.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal is in favour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Limpopo?
Mr J M SIBIYA: Ha seketela. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANGA: Mpumalanga supports. The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Noord-Kaap ondersteun. [Northern Cape supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): North West?
Mr A J L MOSEKI: Bokone-Bophirima e dumela. [North West supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Western Cape?
Mr N J MACK: Western Cape Supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Eight provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the Bill agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Bill accordingly agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON LABOUR AND PUBLIC
ENTERPRISES - INSTRUMENT FOR THE AMENDMENT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF THE
INTERNATIONAL LABOUR ORGANISATION (ILO)
Mr J M SIBIYA: Comrade Chairperson, colleagues, comrades, ladies and gentlemen, the select committee believes that the liberation of humanity will come when and only when everybody is liberated and freed from want in both spiritual and material terms.
The International Labour Organisation, the ILO, is understood by the select committee to be one of the vehicles better poised to contribute greatly to the struggle for that freedom; and more so because the ILO champions the interests of the working class in the whole world.
The amendment of the outdated conventions and codes of practice enable any organisation, the ILO included, to remain relevant to current situations and circumstances and to be more effective in its undertakings.
The select committee has recommended that our government ratify the amendment for the sole purpose of making the ILO responsive to the demands of today in the labour situation. We believe it will enable the governments in every country to remain on their toes in the pursuance of the observance of and respect for workers’ interests at home, avoiding the possibility of a conflict flaring up unnecessarily.
Let me quote one of the sons of the soil of Africa, a pan-African, a diplomat and the former Secretary-General of the United Nations, and that is Boutros Boutros-Ghali of Egypt. While addressing the UN Decolonisation Committee, he said in part that war was planned in the mind and that the best strategy to fight it was to fight it while it was still being planned and not allow the guns to roar.
So the ratification of the amendment will contribute towards the reality and meaning of the statement I referred to, made by the former Secretary- General of the UN.
We believe our country is one of those that are highly committed to human rights, not because of history but because of its performance, as everybody can see. Let me give one example. When a meeting of the ILO was called in Geneva, which our current Minister of Labour Membathisi Mdladlana attended, I was personally very impressed that his was the only report that included a programme that was going to see to it that every facility in this country was made accessible to all South Africans including our disabled brothers and sisters. As a result the ILO also adopted that programme. That was a brilliant move.
The Select Committee on Labour and Public Enterprises supports the Bill and urges this House to do so unreservedly so that we can see the fruits thereof. Thank you very much. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the House. Are all delegation heads present?
In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chairperson whether they vote in favour of, against, or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape? Absent. Free State?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: In favour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Gauteng?
Mr S SHICEKA: Siyahambisana nayo mphathi sihlalo, siyayixhasa. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal elethu. [KwaZulu-Natal supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Limpopo?
Mr J M SIBIYA: Ri khou tendelana nayo. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Ha yi seketela. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Re tsamaya mmogo. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): North West?
Mr A J L MOSEKI: North West re dumelelana le yona. [North West is in agreement.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Western Cape?
Mr N J MACK: In favour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Eight provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Before I proceed, hon members, my understanding is that there are duty Whips deployed to deal in particular with the attendance of members in this House, and these Whips are the hon Z C Ntuli, the hon H F Matlanyane and the hon J F Terblanche. Could you make sure that the members from all provinces are present, particularly the delegation heads? Thank you very much.
CONSIDERTATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON LAND AND ENVIRONMENTAL AFFAIRS - AGREEMENT BETWEEN THE REPUBLIC OF BOTSWANA, THE REPUBLIC OF MOZAMBIQUE, THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA AND THE REPUBLIC OF ZIMBABWE ON THE ESTABLISHMENT OF THE LIMPOPO WATERCOURSE COMMISSION
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Chairperson, hon members, the Southern African Development Community revised protocol on shared watercourses, signed in August 2000, has the objectives of fostering closer co-operation, sustainable and co-ordinated management, the protection and utilisation of shared watercourses, and the advancement of the SADC agenda of regional integration and poverty alleviation entered into in 2003. The protocol further calls for the need to establish basin institutions such as water basin commissions, joint water commissions and sharing agreements.
Within this framework, South Africa, Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique have entered into an agreement for the establishment of the Limpopo Watercourse Commission. The objectives of the commission include the following: to advise the parties and to provide them with recommendations on the usage of the water of the Limpopo River; to co-ordinate development of water infrastructure and major investments such as dams; to promote regional co- operation and the strengthening of relationships among the four countries; to act as an instrument to facilitate the sharing of benefits amongst these four countries; and to promote stakeholder participation in decision- making.
The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs therefore recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231 of the Constitution, approve this agreement. Thank you.
Debate concluded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): I shall now put the question. The question is that the report be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the House. Are all delegation heads present?
In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Eastern Cape? The Eastern Cape is absent. Free State?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Ondersteun. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Gauteng?
Mr S SHICEKA: Sihambisana nayo. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: Siyavuma. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Limpopo?
Mr J M SIBIYA: Re a dumela. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Siyavuma. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: A dumela. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): North West?
Mr A J L MOSEKI: North West e a dumela. [North West supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Western Cape?
Mr N J MACK: Supports.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
The Council adjourned at 15:28. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
THURSDAY, 22 MARCH 2007 COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces
- Report of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs on the International Agreement between the Republic of Botswana, the Republic of Mozambique, the Republic of Zimbabwe and the Republic of South Africa for the establishment of the Limpopo Watercourse Commission, dated 06 March 2007:
The Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs, having
considered the request for approval by Parliament of the International
Agreement between the Republic of Botswana, the Republic of Mozambique,
the Republic of Zimbabwe and the Republic of South Africa for the
establishment of the Limpopo Watercourse Commission, referred to it,
recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231(2) of the
Constitution, approve the said Agreement.
Report to be considered.
FRIDAY, 23 MARCH 2007
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
-
The Speaker and the Chairperson The Speaker and the Chairperson, on 22 March 2007, called a Joint Sitting of the National Assembly and the National Council of Provinces, as follows:
CALLING OF JOINT SITTING OF PARLIAMENT
The Speaker of the National Assembly, Ms B Mbete, and the Chairperson
of the National Council of Provinces, Mr M J Mahlangu, in terms of
Joint Rule 7(2), have called a joint sitting of the Houses of
Parliament for Tuesday, 27 March 2007 at 12:00 in order to present the
new emblem of Parliament to the Joint Sitting.
_______________________ ________________________
B MBETE, MP M J MAHLANGU, MP
SPEAKER OF THE CHAIRPERSON OF THE
NATIONAL ASSEMBLY NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces
- Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Finance Bill [B5– 2007] (National Assembly – sec 77), dated 20 March 2007:
The Select Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the
Finance Bill [B5– 2007] (National Assembly – sec 77), referred to it,
reports that it has agreed to the Bill.
MONDAY, 26 MARCH 2007
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
The Speaker and the Chairperson
- Introduction of Bill
(1) The Minister of Housing
(a) Housing Consumers Protection Measures Amendment Bill [B 6
- 2007] (National Assembly – proposed sec 76) [Explanatory
summary of Bill and prior notice of its introduction published
in Government Gazette No 29521 of 21 January 2007.]
Introduction and referral to the Portfolio Committee on
Housing of the National Assembly, as well as referral to the
Joint Tagging Mechanism (JTM) for classification in terms of
Joint Rule 160.
In terms of Joint Rule 154 written views on the classification
of the Bill may be submitted to the JTM within three
parliamentary working days.
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
-
The Minister of Communications
(a) Strategic Plan of the Department of Communications for 2007 to 2010.
-
The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs
(a) Strategic Plan of the Department of Agriculture for 2007 to 2008.
TUESDAY, 27 MARCH 2007
TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
-
The Speaker and the Chairperson (a) The Speaker of the National Assembly and the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, as co-chairpersons of the Joint Rules Committee, present the First Report of the Joint Rules Committee for 2007, dated 5 March 2007, as follows:
FIRST REPORT OF THE JOINT RULES COMMITTEE, 2007
The Speaker of the National Assembly and the Chairperson of the National Council of Provinces, as co-Chairpersons, present the First Report of the Joint Rules Committee, dated 5 March2007, as follows:
On 18 November 2004, the Joint Rules Committee (JRC) adopted the Governance Model of Parliament, subject to the adjustment of details as identified at that meeting.
At an earlier JRC meeting on 21 September 2004, it had been resolved that the Presiding Officers and the Secretariat would reconsider and refine proposals before the Committee in regard to the Model, paying particular attention to four issues, one of which was the role of the Chief Whips’ Forum and the Quarterly Consultative Forum.
The other three issues related to the relationship between the Directing Authority (referred to as the Parliamentary Oversight Authority) and the JRC, representivity on the Directing Authority and the participation of the Secretary to Parliament in the Directing Authority. These issues were subsequently resolved.
The remaining issue that needed consideration was therefore the relationship between the Chief Whips’ forum and the Quarterly Consultative forum. This issue was considered and resolved by the JRC at a meeting on 21 June 2006.
Once the Model has been approved by the House, a range of rule changes will be required. The Joint Subcommittee on Review of the Joint Rules will then be required to draft appropriate rule amendments.
B Mbete, MP MJ Mahlangu, MP Speaker of the National Assembly Chairperson of the NCOP Report to be considered.
CREDA INSERT REPORT - Insert T070327E – insert 2 – PAGES 500-510
- The Minister in The Presidency (a) The Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities and its Optional Protocol, tabled in terms of section 231(2) of the Constitution, 1996 (Act No 108 of 1996).
(b) Explanatory memorandum to the Convention on the Rights of
Persons with Disabilities and its Optional Protocol.
Referred to the Joint Monitoring Committee on Improvement of
Quality of Life and Status of Children, Youth and Disabled Persons
for consideration and report.
National Council of Provinces
- The Chairperson
(a) Written statement submitted in terms of section 106(3) of the
Local Government: Municipal Systems Act, 2000 (Act No 32 of 2000):
Mbombela Local Municipality by the Mpumalanga MEC for Local
Government and Housing.
COMMITTEE REPORTS
National Council of Provinces
-
Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Division of Revenue Bill [B 3 - 2007] (National Assembly – sec 76), dated 27 March 2007:
The Select Committee on Finance, having considered the subject of the Division of Revenue Bill [B 3 - 2007] (National Assembly – sec 76), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 76 Bill, reports the Bill without amendment.
-
Report of the Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs on Electricity Regulation Amendment Bill [B 20B – 2006] (National Assembly – sec 76), dated 27 March 2007:
The Select Committee on Economic and Foreign Affairs, having considered the subject of the Electricity Regulation Amendment Bill [B 20B – 2006] (National Assembly – sec 76), referred to it and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism as a section 76 Bill, reports the Bill with amendments [B 20C – 2006].