THURSDAY, 24 MAY 2007

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          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES

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The Council met at 14:03.

The House Chairperson Committees took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the NCOP, I shall move on behalf of the IFP that:

That the Council –

(1) notes with sadness that a 69-year old woman was burnt to death when her shack caught fire in Eastonside, Gauteng, on Wednesday;

(2) further notes that a two-bar heater started a fire that spread to four townhouses in Sandton, Johannesburg, also on Wednesday; (3) acknowledges that as a result of the winter cold, there is a higher risk of fires starting in people’s houses as they try to keep themselves warm;

(4) offers its sincerest condolences to the family of the deceased woman; and

(5) urges all South Africans to be extremely careful and to be very aware of the potential fire hazards and dangers of heaters and other appliances that are used to keep us warm in winter.

             ELECTION OF DA PARLIAMENTARY OFFICE BEARERS

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mnr J W LE ROUX: Agb Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis:

Dat die Raad kennis neem –

1) dat agb Watty Watson vanoggend eenparig as Leier van die Demokratiese Alliansie in hierdie Raad herkies is;

2) dat agb Juanita Terblanche as sweep van die DA herkies is, en

3) dat ‘n vorige leier van die DA in hierdie Raad, agb Sandra Botha, as Parlementêre Leier in die Nasionale Vergadering verkies is. (Translations of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)

[Mr J W LE ROUX: Hon Chairperson, I hereby give notice:

That the Council notes –

(1) that this morning hon Watty Watson has been re-elected unanimously as Leader of the Democratic Alliance in this Council;

(2) that Hon Juanita Terblanche has been re-elected as whip of the DA; and

(3) that a previous leader of the DA in this Council, Hon Sandra Botha has been elected as Parliamentary Leader in the National Assembly.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

STEPS TOWARDS EFFECTIVE PREVENTION AND MANAGEMENT OF SUBSTANCE ABUSE IN SCHOOLS

                         (Draft Resolution) The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I have two motions. I will start with the first one.

Taking into consideration that today is the day of taking a girl-child to the workplace, I have three girls in the office of the Chief Whip in the NCOP by the names of Miss Yusra, from Islamia College, Ms Hanifa from Rosendale Senior Secondary School, and Miss Annelies Pentwa from Mxaiya Senior Secondary School, who were acting and are still acting as Chief Whip in my office. They have instructed me to move a motion without notice as follows:

That the Council -

(1) notes that -

     (a)      a safe and disciplined learning environment is one of the
         critical elements for the successful delivery of quality
         education; and


     (b)      the alarming rate of substance abuse and violence in
         schools and the prevailing legacy of apartheid poverty in our
         communities are some of the key factors that continue to
         undermine the learning environment in many schools across the
         country, particularly in the Western Cape; and

(2) calls upon - (a) all schools and their governing bodies to develop drug usage, misuse and dependency management plans that reflect the ethos and values of the country’s National Policy on Drug Abuse Management in Schools, which is intended to contribute towards effective prevention and management of substance abuse by learners in schools; and

     (b)      the Department of Social Development to expand its poverty
         intervention mechanisms through schools to ensure that
         learners from poor families, especially those who qualify for
         grants, are assisted.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

   CALL FOR DELAY OF RELOCATION OF MOTHLOTHLO COMMUNITY IN LIMPOPO

                         (Draft Resolution)

Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council –

(1) notes with concern challenges raised by the Mothlothlo community, under Kgoshigadi Langa of the Mapilo Traditional Authority in Limpopo, with the Limpopo permanent delegates under the leadership of Hon H Matlanyane during the provincial week from 14 to 18 May this year, namely –

   (a) that the Anglo Plats Mine wants to continue relocating people
         from the area before they implement agreements that were
         reached between them and the community; and


   (b) that this has angered the community to an extent where they
         threaten to use force to physically stop the whole process if
         their concerns are ignored;

(2) therefore calls upon the Department of Minerals and Energy, together with the Ministry, to expeditiously intervene to avoid the looming fiasco or catastrophe, and to delay the forceful removal of those poor communities at Mothlothlo until all agreed processes are implemented; and

(3) requests that the Department of Minerals and Energy reports back to the Council at their earliest convenience.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                      CELEBRATION OF AFRICA DAY

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE NCOP: Hon House Chair, I move without notice:

That the Council notes that –

(1) tomorrow, 25 May 2007, marks the celebration of Africa Day, a day which has been celebrated by the 850 million people of Africa since the formation of the Organisation of African Unity (OAU) in 1963;

(2) this day remains a historic reminder to all of us about Africa’s collective struggle against colonialism and the resilient determination of African leaders to fight against the systemic obliteration of our continent by colonialists; and

(3) the theme for this year, which is “Reflections on Post-colonial Africa - Towards making the 21st Century an African one”, challenges all the people of Africa to -

   (a) never forget the collective efforts of the heroes and heroines
         of Africa who fought bitterly for the liberation of our
         continent; and


   (b) work together for a collective and integrated developmental
         agenda for the advancement of the African continent in the
         21st Century. Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Budget Vote No 34 – Water Affairs and Forestry:

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon members, before we proceed, I want to welcome, on behalf of this House, the acting NCOP Chief Whips who are sitting in the gallery. I also want to welcome the Minister of Defence, hon Lekota, and also the hon Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry, hon Hendrickse, and the officials from the department. Thank you for coming to participate and listen to the debate in this House.

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: House Chair, hon members of this House, ladies and gentlemen, I stand before you today in my first policy review debate in the NCOP since my appointment as Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry. I think the last time I stood here was the day when I had been shifted; I was in between posts. [Laughter.] I had been presenting a Bill from my previous portfolio, and that afternoon I was moved to this portfolio. But it is nice to be here again.

Hon Minister of Defence, thank you for the support and for being with us in the House. Over the past 12 months that I have been Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry, my department has accomplished a great deal in creating a better life for our people. I will just touch on some of the highlights over the past year, and the plans that we have for this year.

Just last year 1,2 million people received access to basic water, contributing to our target of eradicating the backlog of people without access to water by 2008. An additional 250 000 households received access to basic sanitation. We plan to intensify efforts this year to achieve an even greater impact in these areas.

Also last year, 74 000 units of the bucket system were eradicated, with the remaining units in the formal established settlements set to be eradicated this year. I reported to the National Assembly during my budget debate that we are left with 106 000 units of the bucket system in these settlements, and that I have held sanitation summits in those provinces that are most affected by this bucket system of sanitation, which are the Orange Free State … rather Free State. I am sorry about that - the Orange River still runs there. The other provinces are the Eastern Cape and North West. I would really like to thank the Premiers from all the three provinces who not only attended these summits but showed their commitment to eradicating the budget system, together with their MECs and mayors who attended these three summits and also showed commitment to eradicating the bucket system.

Where we stand, we look forward to this bucket system being eradicated by our target date of December 2007. Indeed, I am aware that hon members are going to raise an issue around the definition of the bucket system, as was adopted by Cabinet. We will deal with that when we respond.

Also, 76% of households benefited from provision of free basic water last year. Some areas have experienced problems with this service and we have seen a proactive response by Mpumalanga, which has programmes that involve communities to address operational and maintenance problems.

During the past year we have also embarked on an extensive process of water use verification. In a number of catchments in each province, as you know, illegal water use is a threat to our allocation of water. Our Free State office has developed a fully functional enforcement and compliance unit to deal with people who steal our water.

In Limpopo, we have started work on the De Hoop Dam, and you saw the soil- turning event which launched our Water Week. That dam will be constructed. The dam itself will bring much-needed water to approximately 800 000 people who presently are without access to water in that area. It will obviously also unlock the mining potential of the platinum group of metals, which we are told still has to be mined for 100 years in that area. So there is a very exciting project starting there.

Limpopo will also see the completion of the water treatment works for the Nandoni Dam, which, at a cost R389 million, will see over 700 000 people being given access to water, with many more people benefiting in the future from our plans to extend this project. This project is also due for completion this year.

Still on Limpopo, we are supporting the planned power station in Lephalale, and this financial year we will be completing the feasibility study for the pipeline to take water to the power station.

When it comes to Mpumalanga, our plans to support electricity generation and the liquid fuels industry will see the completion of the Vaal augmentation pipeline during this financial year. The Injaka water purification and distribution works, as well as the pipeline that will take water for domestic use to the rural villages of Acornhoek in Mpumalanga, will also be completed during this financial year.

Work on the Berg River Dam, here in the Western Cape, has been ongoing. This project, which will increase available water in the Western Cape, will also be completed this year.

In KwaZulu-Natal, the Hluhluwe regional water works will almost be completed by the end of this financial year. This project will be providing rural communities in northern KwaZulu-Natal with water for domestic use.

In the Northern Cape we are constructing a R22 million water pipeline from the Orange River to Colesberg.

These are just some of the projects, hon members, that we are going to undertake this year, whereby we really intend to change the people’s lives through access to water and sanitation.

Draft regulations for the support to resource-poor farmers have been published and we should start to see an increase of our support to these farmers during this financial year. Already, we have supplied rainwater harvesting tanks to the farmers and we have plans to extend this programme with further 200 rainwater tanks this year in Limpopo, the Free State and the Eastern Cape, as well as 1 000 of the smaller “Jojo” water tanks being provided in Thaba Nchu in the Free State.

The North West will be installing early-warning systems in the groundwater aquifers in the Vryburg area, so that we are able to detect levels of groundwater and so make better use of this water resource.

During the past financial year we also raised our profile in the international community. Most of you will be aware that we hosted an international conference on earth observation technology for use in obtaining water-related information. Some of our officials have participated and presented papers at different international conferences. South Africa is increasingly being seen as a leading light in addressing the pressing water and sanitation challenges facing the poor, and particularly people living in the rural areas. This view was supported during the launch of the 2006 United Nations Development Programme Report, which was launched here in Cape Town.

During this financial year we will be hosting two international events. The first is the Unesco symposium on hydrological issues which will be held in November 2007; and the second, which I am pleased to announce today, is our sanitation conference for African countries. This conference will be held in KwaZulu-Natal in February next year, and will see the attendance of African Ministers to discuss critical issues on sanitation.

Cabinet has also approved that South Africa can participate in a huge exhibition and conference that will be held in Zaragoza, Spain, during 2008.

Hon members, African co-operation has also remained very high on our agenda during the past year. In addition to our participation in the African Ministers’ Council on Water, or Amcow, we have been active in watercourse commissions that were established to manage the rivers we share with our neighbouring countries, that is Lesotho, Swaziland, Namibia, Mozambique, Botswana and Zimbabwe.

While there are all these achievements and successes, there were also a number of challenges that we faced in the water and forestry sector over the past year. Some of these include the ongoing delays in the issuing of water licences for afforestation and the pollution in our dams. This results in hon members of this House picking up the phone as they go past the dams where they live and saying, “Hon Minister, it’s not only green, it’s stinking; can’t you do something about it?” So these are the challenges we face: pollution of our dams and rivers, the need to ramp up delivery of access to water and sanitation, the capacity of certain municipalities to deliver services, overburdened waste water treatment infrastructure arising from the increased number of users, and, of course, the drought that hit our country this past summer.

As you know from the public hearings and meetings that you have had with the department, in my department we have had our own challenges internally, particularly regarding the restructuring of the department, which has now been ongoing for approximately nine years, and which we are trying to get to finality. And there is also our qualified audit, as a department. I have committed to dealing with both issues, in particular ensuring that the department has a clean audit by the end of my term of office.

Amahhovisi ethu asezifundeni zonke futhi ayingxenye ebaluleke kakhulu eMnyangweni Wezamanzi Nezamahlathi. La mahhovisi abalulekile eMnyangweni ngoba abhekana nezinkinga zamanzi namahlathi, ezibhekana nomphakathi nsuku zonke kohulumeni bezifundazwe. Ukwenza nje isibonelo, amahhovisi ethu axhasa omasipala kwezamanzi nokuhanjiswa kwendle, abuye asize futhi lapho kuvela izinkinga khona.

Ihhovisi lethu eliseNtshonalanga Kapa lisanda kwethula uhlelo oluhle olumayelana nokuqeqeshwa nokulekelela omasipala ekusebenziseni nasekunakekeleni izingqalasizinda. Lesi sinyathelo sihlanganisa nokubhalwa kwezincwadi ezizoluleka omasipala ukuthi zinakekelwa kanjani lezi zingqgalasizinda. Amahhovisi ethu ezifunda aphinde abheke izikhungo anazo ezifundazweni, njengezinhlangano zabasebenzisi bamanzi, ibhodi yezamanzi kanye nezikhungo zokuphathwa kwezindawo okuqhamuka kuzo amanzi.

Okunye okubalulekile ukuthi amahhovisi ethu asezifundeni anesibopho sokuqinisa ubudlelwano nababambe iqhaza abahlukene esifundazweni. Amanye amahhovisi azimbandakanya ezinhlakeni zohulumeni bezifunda ezibhekene nokulethwa kwamanzi kanye nokuhanjiswa kwendle. La mahhovisi ayisigaba sokuqala esithintwayo uma kufakwa izicelo zokugunyazwa kokusetshenziswa kwamanzi noma amahlathi, kanti futhi basebenzisana nomasipala kanye nezikhungo zamabhodi amanzi ukuqaphela ukuhlanzeka kwamanzi aphuzwayo.

Uma sibheka isabiwomali soMnyango sika 2007-08 amahhovisi ethu ezifundazwe azokwabelwa imali engamarandi angamabhiliyoni angu-3,1 ecazwe esambeni samarandi angamabhiliyoni angu-5,3 kusabiwomali salo nyaka. Lesi sabiwomali engisethulayo phambi kwenu namhlanje sizosekela imizamo yethu yokukhulisa umkhakha wezamahlathi, ukubhekela izidingo zabantu zezamanzi kanye nokuhanjiswa kwendle. Lesi sabiwomali sizobuye sisize ekwakhiweni kwezingqalasizinda, ukunakekela umkhakha wezamanzi kanye nokuqeqeshwa kwabasebenzi boMnyango nabomasipala, ukuze izinsizakalo zamanzi zethulwe ngempumelelo.

Ngizothanda ukwethula ezinye izinto ezimqoka ezibhekene noMnyango Wezamanzi Namahlathi kulo nyaka wezimali ka 2007-08. Malungu ahloniphekileyo, okunye okubalulekile ezigabeni zokusebenza kwethu ngesikhathi sonyaka wezimali esikuwo ukuqinisekisa ukuthi siyafinyelela esibalweni esinqunyelwe sona sokuqeda ukusetshenziswa kwamabhakede ezindaweni ezihlelekile kanye nokuba nempumelelo ebonakalayo ekuqedeni ukusalela muva ekuletheni amanzi ngonyaka ka-2008.

Inselelo enkulu esibhekene nayo eminyakeni emine elandelayo ukuqeda lokhu kusalela muva maqondana nezindlu zangasese ngonyaka ka-2010. Sesikutholile ukuthi isifundazwe ngasinye sisalele kangakanani emuva, futhi lokho singakuthatha sikwehlise sikuyise nakumasipala, njengokuthi nje, isibonelo, isifundazwe saseLimpopo sinamakhaya alinganiselwa ku-800 000 lapho kungekho khona ukuthuthwa kwendle; kanti KwaZulu-Natali sinamakhaya alinganiselwa ku- 700 000 angenakho ukuthuthwa kwendle ngendlela efaneleyo; eMpumalanga kanye nakomasipala abanjengoMaquasi Hills, eNyakatho Ntshonalanga, nakumasipala waseLundini esifundeni saseMpumalanga Koloni, sebefikile esibalweni esingu- 100% ekuqedeni ukusetshenziswa kwamabhakede ezindaweni ezihlelekile. Ngicabanga ukuthi kuhle sibaphe ihlombe kuleyo ndawo. [Ihlombe.]

Ukukhula okukhulu kwesabiwomali sethu okungu-19,9% wesamba semali salo nyaka kusozisa ekuqedeni inkinga yokuthuthwa kwendle ngamabhakede. Uma ubheka izinga lokusalela emuva, kuyasicacela ukuthi zizodingakala ezinye izinsizakusebenza, ngaphezu kwalesi sabelo.

Omasipala yibo abadlala indima enkulu ukubhekana nalokhu kusalela emuva. Siyaqhubeka nohlelo lwethu lokuthumela onjiniyela ukuthi bayosiza labo masipala abaqhugayo. Ngingasho nje ukuthi emuva komhlangano wethu wase-Free State lapho sabona khona ukuthi kuzoba nenkinga enkulu ngoba iFree State iyona enamabhakede amaningi – alinganiselwa ku-80 000 enanini elingu 106 000 atholakala eFree State – siye sathumela-ke onjiniyela abalinganiselwa kwaba-13 ukuyosiza eFree State.

Siyaqhubeka sisebenza nayo i-DBSA kuSiyenza Manje no-Project Consolidate woMnyango Wezohulumeni Bezifundazwe Nabasekhaya, nezifundazwe. Futhi siyaqhubeka nokuthi sibheke namanye amakhono kubantu abaphuma kwamanye amazwe ukusiza kule ndima yochwepheshe emkhakheni wezamanzi.

Ingxenye yethu yokwesekela uhulumeni wasekhaya ifaka phakathi ukuqhuba uhlelo lokufundisa imikhandlu ngokubahlomisa ukuthi baqonde kangcono ngomkhakha wezamanzi nezamahlathi. Kulo nyaka nisibone siya engqungqutheleni kaSalga lapho besenza khona lokhu esikubiza ngokuthi “izifundo zokucathulisa”.

Sisebenzile futhi nezikhungo zokuthuthukiswa nokuhlelwa kwezamanzi lapho sisebenza khona nomasipala abayizikhungo zokulawula ukusebenza kwamanzi ukuze bahlele kahle ngenkathi behlelela amanzi, bazi ukuthi iyiphi ingqalasizinda ekhona kule ndawo abakuyo ukuze bazi ukuthi angakanani amanzi angatholakala, khona bezohlelela kahle amanzi abo azosetshenziswa ezindlini nawokuthuthukisa umnotho.

Ukuqinisekisa ukuthi wonke umuntu uthola amanzi, uMnyango wami unezibopho ezimbili zokuthi, ohlangothini lokuqala, uqhakambise ukongiwa kwamanzi kanye nokunaka ukudingeka kwamanzi, kanti kolunye uhlangothi ukwakha nokuthuthukisa izingqalasizinda ukuze kuhlangatshezwane nokukhulu ukudingeka kwamanzi. Noma kuyinselelo enkulu ukuqhakambisa zombili lezi zindlela, ukuze sikwazi ukusebenzisa ngokugcwele imithombo yethu yamanzi ekhona ngaphambi kokuthi siqale sibheke imisebenzi emisha ekhona yokwakha izingqalasizinda zemithombo yamanzi, siyasiqonda isidingo sokuba songe amanzi.

Bese ngikhulumile nge-De Hoop Dam, okungomunye wemisebenzi esiyiqalile, kanti kukhona neminye imisebenzi yezingqalasizinda ezolungiswa kulo nyaka, isetshenzwe futhi inakekelwe esifundazweni ngasinye. Ngingasho nje ngithi eGauteng sizolungisa i-Vlakfontein Canal njengengxenye yoSuthu-Vaal Scheme, futhi sizobe silungisa siphinde sikhulise ukusebenza kokuhlanzwa kwamanzi asemgudwini we-Vaal River, okungenye yezinto okufanele zenzeke.

Iningi lezingqalasizinda zemithombo yamanzi eyakhiwayo nguMnyango wethu isezindaweni zasemakhaya kakhulu, emaphandleni eLimpopo, KwaZulu-Natali, Mpumalanga naseNtshonalanga Koloni. Kweminingi yale misebenzi siqinisekisa ukuthi sisebenzisa abantu abangomama nentsha. USihlalo ohloniphekile wekomiti ngiyethemba ukuthi uyifakile le nto okulalelwa kuyo yokuhumusha ngoba le yingxenye ayithintile futhi ake wangazisa ngayo. Manje uzojabula ukuzwa ukuthi, kulo nyaka, esifundazweni saseNyakatho Ntshonalanga sizobe sinomsebenzi wokuhlanza amanzi edamini laseHaartebeesport sisebenzisana nenkampani ye-Rand Water. Ngingasho okuningi ngalokhu, maqondana nendlela umonakalo osuwenzeke ngayo kuleli damu, ukunukubeza kwamanzi, ukufa kwezinhlanzi njalo njalo. Kulo nyaka sizobe sisebenzisana ne-Rand Water ukulungisa lokho. [Ihlombe.]

Ekunakekeleni ukongiwa kwamanzi kanye nokudingeka kwawo, sisekela inhlolovo ebe yimpumelelo komasipala abafana neMangaung, Cape Town kanye naseMfuleni. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[We have offices in all provinces and they are an important part of Department of Water Affairs and Forestry. These offices are an important part of the department as they deal with the day-to-day water and forestry issues facing the community in provincial government. For example, our offices support municipalities in their day-to-day water and sanitation service delivery and intervene in cases where there is a crisis.

Our Western Cape regional office recently launched a very interesting programme aimed at training and supporting municipalities on operations and maintenance of infrastructure. This initiative involves the development of training manuals that guide municipalities on how to manage their infrastructure. Our regional offices also provide support and oversight over the institutions we have in provinces, such as Water User Associations, water boards and Catchment Management Agencies.

Another important thing is that these regional offices are responsible for maintaining good relationships with various stakeholders in the provinces. Other offices are involved in provincial government structures dealing with water and sanitation delivery. These offices are the first port of call when applying for water use or forestry licence, and in co-operation with municipalities and water boards they are also involved in monitoring the quality of drinking water.

If we look at the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry’s budget for 2007-08, out of a total budget of R5,3 billion, R3,1 billion will be allocated to our regional offices during the 2007-08 financial year. The budget I table before you today will support our efforts to grow the forestry sector, and also address the basic water and sanitation needs of our people. This Budget will contribute to infrastructure development, regulate and monitor water sector, and build capacity, both within the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry and in municipalities in order to effectively deliver water services.

I would also like to outline some key challenges facing the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry over the 2007-08 financial year. Hon members, one of the most important areas of our work during this financial year is to ensure that we eradicate the bucket system in the formal established settlements, and make substantial progress in eradicating the backlog of access to water by 2008.

Our biggest challenge over the next four years is to address the sanitation backlog by 2010. We have identified the backlog in each province and we can easily translate this into municipalities. Typical examples here would be Limpopo where we still have approximately 800 000 households without adequate sanitation, and KwaZulu-Natal where there is also a significant backlog with over 700 000 households not having access to adequate sanitation. Whereas in provinces such as Mpumalanga, as well as, municipalities like Maquasi Hills in North West and Elundini Municipality in the Eastern Cape have already eradicated 100% of the bucket backlog. They are to be congratulated. [Applause.]

A significant increase of 19,9% in our budget for this financial year, will help in addressing some of the backlogs in eradicating the bucket system. Looking at the backlog that we have, it is clear that additional resources will be required on top of this budget.

Municipalities are playing a critical role in addressing the backlogs. We are continuing with our programme of deploying engineers to municipalities that require additional capacity. I can say that after our meeting in the Free State, where we recognised that there is going to be a problem because out of 106 000 households still using the bucket system, approximately 80 000 come from the Free State. We have since deployed 13 engineers to help in the Free State.

Our relationship with the Development Bank of Southern Africa in Siyenza Manje and Project Consolidate of the Department of Provincial and Local Government is continuing. We are also continually looking at bringing in international expertise to help in the water sector.

Part of our support to the local government includes running a councillor induction programme to empower them with an understanding of the water and forestry sectors. This year we attended Salga convention where they were conducting “induction workshops”.

We have also worked with water services development institutions and municipalities which are the institutions responsible for the provision of water services so that they can do proper planning when they deal with the provision of water services, and know which infrastructure they have in the area where they live and know how much water they can provide for household use and the development of economy.

In ensuring that there is water for all, my department has two responsibilities, which are; promoting water conservation and water demand management and on the other hand the department is responsible for the construction and upgrading of infrastructure to meet the increasing water demand. While it is a huge challenge to meet these two responsibilities in order to conserve water, and utilise our available resources before embarking on new water resources infrastructure development projects, we recognise the need to capture and store water.

I have already mentioned the De Hoop Dam, one of our leading infrastructure projects, but we also have an infrastructure refurbishment, rehabilitation, operations and maintenance programme in each province. In Gauteng for example, we are rehabilitating the Vlakfontein Canal, as part of the Usuthu- Vaal Scheme, and will be rehabilitating the refurbishing of our water and waste-water treatment works in the Vaal River system, amongst others.

Most of the department’s current water resources infrastructure development projects are implemented in rural areas, particularly in the Limpopo, KwaZulu-Natal, Mpumalanga and Western Cape provinces. In most of these projects we ensure the involvement of women and youth.

I hope that the hon Chairperson of the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs is using his earpiece, because this is the part he alluded to, and he even spoke to me about it. Now you will be pleased to hear that in the North West Province we will be undertaking a water quality remedial project for the Hartebeespoort Dam with the assistance of Rand Water. I can say a lot about this, concerning the extent of damage in this dam: water pollution, the death of fish, etc. This year we will be working with Rand Water to address that. [Applause.]

On water conversation and water demand management we have supported very successful pilot projects in municipalities like Mangaung, Cape Town and Emfuleni.]

As with water, we need to acknowledge the crucial role already played by provincial and local government in the national forestry agenda. Many provinces and municipalities are aware of the benefit of forestry, not just for the social and aesthetic benefits which trees and forestry provide but, more importantly, for the livelihood and support and economic benefit that they provide.

In terms of economic growth and development which forestry offers, we are working closely with other government structures in the Eastern Cape and Kwazulu-Natal to fast-track the afforestation licensing process which involves support from a number of other departments.

These new forestry areas will be singularly important in the transformation and growth of the forestry sector and, as such, afforestation forms an important part of our Broad-Based Black Economic Empowerment Charter, which has been completed and agreed to with all the sectors. I plan to launch this charter next month. This charter captures all the key national priorities for the sector as reflected in the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative of South Africa, the Joint Initiative for Priority Skills Acquisition and the past two state of the nation addresses by our President, which called for a strategy for the forest, timber, pulp and paper industries.

The department has worked very closely with other departments on the process of reducing the administrative burden on forestry development. Applications for afforestation have increased dramatically from 800 hectares in 2004 to 5 500 hectares this year. Under the charter, we are aiming at processing in the order of 15 000 hectares per year for the next 10 years. We have also managed to halve the original time of about 18 months to process a licence application and have plans in place to reduce this timeframe. We are also planning to use the progressive provisions in the National Forest Act to provide direct support to communities in this and other forest enterprise areas. Strategic interventions such as the establishment of the special purpose vehicle Asgisa Eastern Cape (Pty) Limited will assist in driving implementation of the forestry programme in these areas.

Afforestation, as you all know, will take place mostly in the rural areas where there are very few available job opportunities and economic activity. The development of these additional raw material resources will attract greater processing capacity in the form of sawmills. We are going to see the development of board mills, chipping and treatment plants, and all these will lead to broader economic growth in those areas.

Through this afforestation, an additional R500 million per annum could be generated on the plantations part of the industry which had a turnover of R32 billion last year and add-in in excess of R1,5 billion per annum in value-added processes. We are also revising and we have approved our policy on the remaining category plan B and plan C forestry which we intend to rehabilitate and hand over to the communities. Since the job of making forestry to work in the economy and in the lives of poor people involves all three spheres of government, we are finalising the implementation plan for the forestry sector which can be used by provincial and local governments.

I believe my department has an important role to play in the area of using water for economic growth and contributing towards poverty eradication. It is therefore necessary that, during the coming years, we use our budget towards achieving these broader government objectives.

We will contribute to poverty alleviation through current initiatives such as the Masibambane Programme, our greening programme and our support programme to resource-poor farmers. This support will be provided through running projects such as rain water harvesting, food gardens, planting of fruit trees, skills development for rural women, as well as other projects that can bring food to the table.

The majority of the Working for Water budget allocation which you see this year will be spent in the provinces. You are very well aware what this project has accomplished. We intend to grow this project.

My time is running out. As I conclude, I would like to thank the Director–General of the department, Mr Jabu Sindane; the deputy directors- general and all the officials of the department right to the last one for their hard work and commitment. I would also like to thank the Select Committee on Land and Environmental Affairs for the important oversight under very difficult circumstances and with so many departments to oversee. Again, I would like to thank you for the work that you do.

I request the House to support my department’s budget of R5,3 billion. I thank you. [Applause.]

Rev P MOATSHE: Agb Voorsitter, Minister van Waterwese en Bosbou … [Hon Chairperson, Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry …]

… Tona ya tsa Tshireletso … [… Minister of Defence …] … agb kollegas in die Departement van Waterwese en Bosbou, ons is besonder bevoorreg om deel te kan hê aan hierdie belangrike debat in hierdie tyd van demokrasie. Dus wil ek ’n paar feite aan die lig bring. Waterwese, sanitasie en bosbou, die drie het te doen met water. As gevolg daarvan is water ’n belangrike kommoditeit wat mense op ’n baie versigtige manier moet hanteer. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[… hon colleagues in the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, we are particularly privileged to be able to participate in this important debate in this time of democracy. I would therefore like to highlight a couple of facts. Water affairs, sanitation and forestry, the three of them, have to do with water. As a result of this water is an important commodity which people have to treat in a very careful manner.]

Modulasetulo, fa o ntetla gore ke latlhele tlhware legonyana, ke rata go tsaya tšhono e go leboga Tona ya Merero ya Metsi le Dikgwa fa a dirile tshwetso malebana le letsha la Hartebeespoort Dam. Fa ke leba lefelo leo, ke le leba ka mafega tota, mme ke rata go tsaya tšhono e go leboga lefapha fa le gorositse kgwetlho ya me le kopo ya me gore letamo lele le mo maemong a a tlhobaetsang.

Ke batla go lomaganya dintlha di le pedi tse di welang mo lefapheng la gago Tona gonne lefapha le le tshwanetse le tlhokomele metsi gore a nne a ntse a le phepa, mme gape ke lefapha le le tshwanetseng go tlhokomela gore kelelo ya leswe le yona e kgaogangwe le metsi a a phepa, gonne bothata jwa letsha le le ke gore kelelo ya leswe, e e theogang ka noka ya Jukskei go tswa Alexandra le metse e e gaufi ya basweu, e kgewa ke noka e mme e fete e e tshele mo letamong la Hartebeespoort. Ke ka baka leo maemo e le a a tlhobaetsang mo letamong leo.

Ke rata go dira kgwetlho le kopo ya gore e se nne Lefapha la Metsi le la Dikgwa fela mme le tshwaragane le lefapha la Merero ya Tikologo le Bojanala mo ntlheng e gonne kgotlelo e ka fa tlase ga lefapha leo.

Motswana a re sedikwa ke ntšwapedi ga se thata. Fa a rialo Motswana o bua a netefaditse a re kgetsi ya tsie e kgonwa ke go tshwaraganelwa, ke ka moo mafapha a mabedi a a tshwanetseng go tshwaragenela kgetsi e ya tsie.

Baagi ba lefelo leo ba lebeletse tota - e bile matlho a bona a hibitse – gore ba tla bona kae thuso. Mo makatakong, jaaka ke bua jana, bontsi jwa metse ya rona bo fiwa metsi ka dirori gonne go na le mathata ka mafaratlhatlha a a tsentsweng fa tlase ga mmu go gorosa metsi a a phepa kwa baaging.

Kgang ya kelelo ya leswe ke boammaruri. Motswana wa maloba o bua boammaruri fa a re mašwi a tswa kgomong a le phepa selabe se tla le motshwarakgamelo. Fa methapo le metswedi ya dinoka tsa rona di ne di le phepa mme gompieno re lemoga gore metsi a tshwanetse go tlhatswiwa, ke sesupo sa gore isagwe ya rona le ya bana ba rona e mo kotsing.

Selo se ke kgwetlho. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[Chairperson, if you will allow me to say something, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Minister of Water Affairs and Forestry for making a decision with regard to the land at Hartebeespoort Dam. I feel enraged when I see that place. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the department for taking up my challenge and request with regard to the appalling condition of that dam.

I would like to link two points that concern your department; as it is its responsibility to conserve the water and keep it unpolluted. Again the same department has to make sure that sewerage is separated with clean water because the problem with sewerage that comes through Jukskei River from Alexandra and the nearby white areas is swept away by the river and flows into the Hartebeespoort Dam. That is the reason that makes the situation at that dam so unbearable.

I would like to make an appeal and request that this should not only be done by the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry, but they should work together with the Department of Environmental Affairs as pollution is their responsibility. In Setswana we say joint efforts make the task lighter. By so saying, we really tell the truth that indeed joint efforts make the task lighter, that is why these two departments should work together on this issue.

The residents of that area are watching with keen interest as to where will they get assistance. In Makatakong, as we speak, most of the villages get water from the lorrie tanks because there seems to be a problem with the water pipe system that is supposed to provide water to the people.

The sewerage problem is a reality. The old Motswana was telling the truth when he said there is an influence of external factors in a problem as it is the case here where the problem does not emanate only from the dam, but from the streams and rivers that flow into it. We used to believe that our streams and rivers were unpolluted until we discovered today that their water needs to be purified. This is an indication that our future and that of our children is in danger. This is a challenge to us.]

The South African society of the past was characterised largely by socioeconomic backlogs and underservicing across social groups and regions. The regime’s policies by then left a legacy of severe economic and social disparities, and most South African families still live in conditions that do not meet the most basic needs.

The spiralling effects of this legacy as well as the new challenges of economic globalisation engaged the state in developmental imbalances. A central priority of the South African government as set out in the Bill of Rights is to ensure the provision of a range of services to meet socioeconomic challenges within the constraints of available resources.

One of the critical challenges that the national government faces, therefore, is how best to redistribute national revenue, with a view to equity and poverty alleviation. The South African government’s fiscal system is designed to address this concern, through the assignment of functions allocated to each sphere of government.

Many national departments, however, in their budget submissions as well as their strategic plans, recognise challenges encountered by South Africa in its third year of the second decade of democracy. Broadly, these include, but are not limited to, poverty eradication and building the capacity of the state to implement government policies in order to create a better a life for all the people of South Africa.

The initiatives to meet these challenges are underpinned by the principles outlined in the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative of South Africa, Asgisa, and in the government’s programme of action. In line with the changing role of the department, an overview of the overall expenditure trends for the department reflects that the total expenditure decreased from R4,3 billion in 2005-06 because of the transfer of expenditure of new water and sanitation projects to the municipal infrastructure grant from Programme 3: Water Services.

A lo a nkutlwa? [Do you hear me?]

HON MEMBERS: Re go reeditse! [We are listening!]

The increase in expenditure by R853,3 million between 2006-07 is due to the allocation for the construction of De Hoop Dam – the increased allocation for improving dam safety.

O reetse sentle! O reetse sentle morwarra! [Listen carefully! Listen carefully, my brother!]

Funds rolled over for personnel costs related to the transfer of some of the department’s functions include the following: disaster management projects, drought relief, flood damage to structures and the management of commercial forestry in the Mpumalanga area.

The revised estimates for 2006-08 show that the anticipated underspending for the department is R794 million, owing to the delays in obtaining the environmental approval from the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism for De Hoop Dam and delays in finalising transfer agreements with the municipalities regarding water schemes.

There are indeed constraints, in addition to those constraints on development imposed by South Africa’s general aridity. Poor water quality can also seriously limit the usage of water resources. A particular concern is a decline in the quality of effluent discharged from many municipal sewerage treatment works. This reflects the inadequate capacity of many municipalities to undertake their water-related responsibilities. The department is, however, offering as much support as possible to local government to rectify the situation.

Inadequate management capacity in local government is also reflected in many of the drought relief situations, and support initiatives are required from the department …

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Unfortunately, your time has expired, hon member.

Rev P MOATSHE: Is it true? [Laughter.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Just look at the screen.

Rev P MOATSHE: Thank you, Chairperson, and I would also like to thank the Minister and the department. Let’s spearhead an endeavour to turn around the lives of the people of this country around. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, I would like to remind this House of the dreams of Antjie Krog, who wrote in the preamble of the 1997 White Paper on National Water Policy for South Africa, and I quote:

We want the water of this country to flow into a network - reaching every individual – saying: Here is this water for you; take it, cherish it as affirming your human dignity, and nourish your humanity. With water we will wash away the past, we will from now on ever be bound by the blessing of water.

In 1994, the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry inherited a set of policies and laws that did not treat water as a fundamental right and social priority. However, since 1994, access to water is regarded as a basic human right. The state has assumed a constitutional duty to ensure and protect this basic right - thus, the start of the blue revolution.

Prior to 1994, 14 million South Africans did not have access to safe water. Twelve years later - thanks to the blue revolution - 41 million South Africans have access to safe water. What is more significant and important is the fact that, currently, more than 80% of the population with access to water infrastructure enjoy access to free basic water, which translates into 74% of the South African population. This is truly a remarkable story, of which we can all be proud.

In 2005, the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry further transformed its role from being an implementer to a regulator and sector leader. Therefore, the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry will only be responsible for compliance with water and sanitation regulations, and will ensure that municipalities maintain their focus on the eradication of the bucket system and water supply backlogs.

The question, Minister, is whether this new strategic direction is the correct one in terms of the government’s pro-poor policies. If we consider the current challenges and lack of capacity within municipalities, should we not perhaps investigate whether we are not putting undue pressure on municipalities who are already under pressure, due to the lack of capacity and resources, to fulfil this very important and fundamental human right? Are we not perhaps busy shifting responsibilities, notwithstanding the current constitutional arrangement that states that water service provision is a local government function?

To come back to the point, however, government has set for itself various targets, which include the eradication of the remaining 106 800 buckets in the formally established settlements by December 2007 and to supply clean water to the remaining 14% of the population by 2008.

During last week’s provincial week programme of the NCOP, permanent delegates from the Free State focused on progress made on the eradication of the bucket system in Free State, where it was reported that at the end of February 2007 about 85 000 buckets still needed to be eradicated before the 2007 deadline.

Out of the 19 local municipalities in the province that receive allocations from the 2007-08 budgets, 13 of them do not have any major challenge to meet this deadline. However, hon Minister, the remaining six local municipalities have a major challenge to comply, owing to the budget shortfall of approximately R400 million. This could result in about 45 000 buckets not being eradicated by the targeted date of December 2007. This fact was also confirmed by the MEC for local government during a briefing to the portfolio committee on 8 May in Cape Town.

To further illustrate this point, during a presentation made by the Mangaung Local Municipality to the members, it was reported that, in 2002, the sanitation backlog was estimated at 90 000 households without adequate sanitation. This backlog now stands at 10 793. The amount needed to eradicate the remaining 10 000 buckets is R222 million and only R60 million is available from the municipal infrastructure grants. The shortfall for this municipality is therefore R162 million.

However, I am pleased to announce that the Mangaung Local Municipality has taken a proactive initiative to seek outside sources to cover the shortfall of R162 million. This indicates their commitment to address this inhuman and degrading legacy of the past, and to provide a better life for all as promised in our contract with the people. At the council meeting on 17 May 2007, the council took a resolution to cover the shortfall from outside sources to enable them to meet this deadline.

It was distressing to note, however, that during the debate to authorise this additional funding, members of the opposition, in particular the DA, opposed the council’s resolution. This is yet another clear indication of how far removed from the realities of life in the townships the opposition is.

I was even more shocked when a member of the ACDP also opposed the council’s resolution - them being based on Christian values and principles! Is this type of attitude by the opposition parties not, perhaps, because they live in areas that are not affected by the bucket system and therefore does not affect their lives directly?

During the UN Millennium Summit of 2000 in Johannesburg, the world leaders agreed to reduce by 50% the proportion of people without sustainable access to drinking water by 2015. In the Free State, 89% of formal households currently receive free basic water, which translates to 546 000 households. [Time expired.]

Mr A WATSON: Hon Chairperson …

… agb Ministers … Waar’s hulle nou? O daar’s darem een. Agb Minister, agb Voorsitter en lede, dis verblydend om te sien dat die kleurryke geaardheid van ons voorsitter ook weerspieël word in die veeltaligheid wat hy vandag hier aan die dag gelê het, baie dankie daarvoor. Ek wil ook graag net vir my kollega daar, agb Van Rooyen, net sê dat die DA ten volle ten gunste is en hard veg vir die uitwissing van die emmerstelsel en nie net partytjies hou om dit te vier terwyl dit nog nooit gebeur het nie. [Tussenwerpsels.] [Applous.]

As daar wel so ’n besluit was in Mangaung dan was die DA se besluit gegrond op grondige finansiële beginsels en nie net die uitwissing van die emmerstelsel nie. [Applous.] Maar as hy ons in dieselfde lig as die ACDP wil noem, seker omdat saam regeer hier in Kaapstad, wil ek vir hom sê dit beteken nie wat die ANC sê is wat die DA sê nie. Net so min as wat die ANC sê in Laingsburg en Beaufort-Wes is wat die DA sê. Onthou dit asseblief. [Tussenwerpsels.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[… hon Ministers … Where are they now? Oh, there is at least one. Hon Minister, hon Chairperson and members, it is heartening to see that the colourful disposition of our chairperson is also reflected in the multilingualism that he is displaying here today. Thank you very much for that. I would also just like to say to my colleague over there, hon Van Rooyen, that the DA is fully in favour and fights the eradication of the bucket system vigorously and that the DA does not only have parties to celebrate this while it has not happened yet. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

If, indeed, such a decision was taken in Mangaung, then the DA’s decision was based on well-founded financial principles and not only on the eradication of the bucket system. [Applause.] But if he wants to mention us and the ACDP in one breath, most probably because we govern Cape Town jointly, I want to say to him that it does not mean that the ANC is saying what the DA says. Just the same as what the ANC is saying in Laingsburg and Beaufort-West, is not what the DA is saying. Please bear that in mind. [Interjections.]]

But, as the newly-transformed water regulator and sector leader, the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry still bears ultimate responsibility for reaching basic water supply and sanitation targets for all by 2008 and 2010 respectively - and not the DA.

Meanwhile, the eradication of the bucket system will be helped along immeasurably if waterborne sewerage systems could be established without incapacitating incidents resulting from bad planning. Mpumalanga recently witnessed such an incident when a lack of connection for a newly- established waterborne system meant that there was no sanitation in place at all and temporary measures had to be put in place. Of course, I am referring, once again, to the situation at Embalenhle near Secunda, in Govan Mbeki municipality, where, regrettably, even the temporary measures have not been sufficient but still the system does not work.

At the workshop here in Parliament last year, which was sponsored by this very department and the Department of Provincial and Local Government, I was shouted down as a liar when I raised the question of eMbalenhle, but the situation remains a shocking reality even today. Yes, hon Minister, the bucket system has been eradicated now in extension 18 at eMbalenhle, but it has been replaced by nothing. Is that good? [Interjections.] If that’s good, I understand your thinking.

First there was a problem with the overflowing of temporary toilets. That was attended to but now the waterborne toilets are overflowing because of the malfunctioning of the sewerage system. I am informed that the underground piping was laid at an upwards angle, so the gravity-fed drainage simply could not work. Those underground pipes are now filled to capacity, so the whole sewage can only go one way: out of the top of the toilet. The sad part is that the preferred contractor - and listen to this now - responsible for this mess was paid in full and in advance, and has now disappeared.

Therefore, the damage remains unattended, while some of the inhabitants still have no toilets at all. As if this terrible health hazard is not enough … [Interjections.] You can talk as much as you like. If you support what is happening there, go to eMbalenhle and tell them that. Mr Goeieman, go and tell them that the ANC and the NCOP are happy that the people in Mpumalanga have no toilets at all. Go and tell them, don’t tell me. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon member, are you rising on a point of order? [Interjections.]

Mr A WATSON: No, question time is later on and to the hon Minister. As if this terrible health hazard is not enough, the situation grows even dimmer. People have now resorted to their own makeshift bucket systems. They are back to the bucket system of their own, using their own containers of whatever kinds and emptying these into the nearby river which ultimately flows into the Vaal Dam. It is not a happy story at all.

Last week in Mpumalanga, I also drew the attention of the newly-appointed MEC for local government about this sad event. I am convinced of her sincerity and shock. I am therefore sure that she will react shortly. Ngqonggoshe, angazi ukuthi leli hhovisi lakho elise-Secunda lenzani ngoba kudala sikhala kodwa abenzi lutho. Mhlawumbe wena ungabavakashela ukuze ufike uzwe ukuthi benzani eSecunda ngoba lawa mathoyilethi awalungile, namanzi awalungile kanti futhi abantu bayasokola. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Minister, I am not too sure what your office in Secunda is doing because since time immemorial we have been complaining, but nothing is being done. Maybe you have to visit them and find out what it is that they are doing in Secunda, because the toilets there are not functional, the water is not potable and the people are suffering.]

Of course, bulk infrastructure capacity constraints often mean that waterborne sewage systems are overstretched, resulting in untreated sewage spilling into storm water systems and natural water systems –wherever that occurs, not only in Secunda. It is therefore most disturbing that issues concerning drinking water quality and water pollution are being reported with increasing frequency. In many rural areas such as Mpumalanga and Limpopo, I have received reports of people having taps next to their houses but nothing emanating from them. Those are white elephants standing there doing nothing, and I can take you there.

South Africa’s water quality currently rates highly and it would be sad if the situation had to deteriorate to the point where citizens, who can afford to do so, and private businesses, had to purchase their own water purification and sanitation systems, in addition to running their own electricity generators. [Interjections.]

I wish Mr Goeieman would go and sit on his seat, because he is making a lot of unnecessary noise. But I have grown used to him as an empty bucket, just like the toilets which are not working. [Interjections.] [Applause.] I am addressing you, not anybody else.

In Afrikaans is daar ’n baie goeie gesegde, mnr Goeieman wat standhou met water en dit is: [There is a very fine saying in Afrikaans, Mr Goeieman, that has relevance to water, and that is:]

Leë pyp, maak toe jou kraan, dan sien ons jou dalk vir ’n volle aand. [If you remain silent, you will not expose your ignorance.]

[Laughter.]

No, I have already said that I won’t take questions. You have attempted to waste my time a few times. [Interjections.] Your attempts to waste my time are futile. They are as futile and as unhealthy as you. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon Tolo, can you please take your seat?

Mnr A WATSON: U sien, Voorsitter, ek het verwag dat daar nou weer reaksie gaan wees en ek weet die lede van die Huis gaan nou weer sê dat ek onlojaal teenoor my provinsie is. Ek wil tog die Huis herinner dat die lede van die DA net soos alle ander partye wat in hierdie Huis verteenwoordig is, alhoewel hulle deel is van ’n provinsiale afvaardiging, is deel van daardie afvaardiging op grond van die stemme wat hul partye in die provinsie gekry het. [Tussenwerpsels.]

Daarom moet die Voorsitter en al die lede baie mooi verstaan die DA is nie onderdanig aan ’n provinsiale afvaardiging nie, maar aan die kiesers wat vir ons gestem het. [Applous.] [Tussenwerspels.] Twee miljoen. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)

[Mr A WATSON: You see, Chairperson, I expected that there would be some reaction and I know that the members of the House are going to say that I am being disloyal towards my province. I would like to remind the House that the members of the DA, like all other parties represented here in this House, although part of a provincial delegation, are part of that delegation on the basis of the votes their parties received in the province. [Interjections.]

That is why the Chairperson and all the members should clearly understand that the DA is not accountable to a provincial delegation, but to the voters that elected them. [Applause.] [Interjections.] All two million of them.]

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, in terms of the Rules of this House, a member must address the Chair, not the members directly. That hon member pointed a finger like the late former State President. I think he must address the Chair.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Can you please continue, hon member.

Mr A WATSON: Thank you, Chair, for not acknowledging that nonsense. I was trying to say … [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Hon Watson, I didn’t say you must say that is nonsense. You have to withdraw that statement.

Mr A WATSON: I am not saying it is nonsense. I am not saying you said it is nonsense. I think it is nonsense. But I withdraw, because I am wasting my own time. [Interjections.]

Agb Voorsitter, ek wil net weer herhaal, ons sal kyk na die probleme en die wense van ons kiesers en nie na ’n provinsiale delegasie se leier of sy provinsie nie. Ons is hier om na ons kiesers te kyk en ons sal sorg dat ons lawaai maak oor plekke soos eMbalenhle vir solank as wat ons kan en vir solank as wat ons wil. Ek dan u. [Applous.] (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Hon Chairperson, I would just like to repeat once again, we will look at the problems and the concerns of our voters and not at a leader of a provincial delegation or his province. We are here to take care of our voters and we shall make sure that we make a fuss about places such as eMbalenhle for as long as we are able to and for as long as we would like to. I thank you. [Applause.]

Mnu M A MZIZI: Sihlalo noNgqongoqshe, impela namhlanje bekungadingekile ukuthi silokhu sijikijelana ngamagama, nanoma ngani enye, ngoba sikhuluma ngento ebalulekile, amanzi namahlathi. Amanzi namahlathi ayimpilo kithi sonke. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson and hon Minister, today, there is really no need for us to throw tantrums at each other, or any other object for that matter, because we are talking about a very important thing here; water and forestry. Water and forestry are life to us all.]

The debate for the day deals with the commodities that are essential to the lives of human beings, even to the creatures living under the sun. The IFP is aware of the engagement of the department in water resources management. It is true that effective management of water, which is a scarce resource in South Africa, is pivotal for equity, distribution and access.

We welcome the department’s putting in place new institutional management for water resource management which will be decentralised to regional and local levels for greater public participation and improved efficiency. The IFP also welcomes the continuity of the laws that protect the forests.

Lapha-ke sengikhuluma ngesihlahla esisanda kutholakala laphaya eLimpopo. Kufanele sisithezelwe futhi sivikeleke ngokusemthethweni leso sihlahla. [I am talking here about the tree that was recently discovered in Limpopo. That tree must be concealed and be protected by law.]

If this is not done, some of these trees would be extinct. The incoming generation would not know about certain plants that had lived and provided human beings with life.

Nezinye izihlahla ezilungisa umuzi, ezaziwa uhlanga oluthile lwabanye bomdabu, nazo lezo zihlahla zidinga ukuthi zivikeleke. [And the other trees, too, which are famous for aphrodisiac reasons, to a certain black ethnic grouping, must also be protected.] [Laughter.]

I wish to touch on one little point that the IFP would like to see being improved on, in order for people at large to benefit. The following area needs attention: lack of hygienic drinking water supply in the rural areas. Water is scarce because the very same river where they fetch water for drinking is also where they do their laundry. And, because the river flows from the other side, someone is taking a bath while animals are also drinking the same water. Such water is not sterilised for human consumption.

As regards sanitation in rural areas, especially in an educational environment, most schools in the rural areas use toilets which don’t flush because in most areas they do not have sewerage systems. These toilets are dangerous to the community and schoolchildren as well.

Angazi-ke Ngqongqoshe ngoba laphaya endaweni engibuya kuyo, ngaseBekkersdal, kusasetshenziswa zona lezi zindlu zangasese zomgodi. Ziyinsakavukela umchilo wesidwaba; wena-ke owakubona kwenzeka lokho. [Minister, I do not know what will happen in my area because near Bekkersdal people are still using the pit toilets. They are commonly used, as you know.]

There should be black ownership and supply of timber and contracted services to the sector, especially by women etc. The black-owned component is largely limited. There is about 8% of planted forests, and black women- owned companies are few. Forests contribute significantly to the economy, both directly and indirectly. Formal and commercial forestry alone contributes 2% to the GDP. There is a lack of water for economic development activities, such as irrigation systems for watering food gardens.

Ngqongqoshe, ngike ngathinteka lapha uma ukhuluma ngabakushayela ucingo bekhuluma ngamanzi anukayo. Angazi ukuthi basuke bekhuluma ngamaphi amanzi. Kodwa laphaya eSt Johns, ikhona indawo ebizwa ngokuthi, “amanzi anukayo”. Lawo ngamanzi aziwayo impela. Kuthiwa uma ufika khona noma ngabe uphethwe yisiphi isifo, uma ungena kuwo siyaphela isifo. Uma uphuza lawo manzi anukayo, kuyaphola lokho okukuphethe. Ngibona sengathi lawo manzi kudingeka avikelwe ngoba ayikhambi. Abaningi abakwazi lokho kodwa abanye bahlala khona eSt Johns. Iyani khona nina enigulayo ukuze nibone ukuthi imvelo ikuphi.

Angisike elijikayo. Yebo, indaba yamanzi imqoka kodwa laphaya emalokishini, lawa manzi okuthiwa siwathola simahla, empeleni asiwaboni ezitatimendeni zethu. [Ubuwelewele.] Hawu madoda, kanti isikhathi siyisitha nakimi? (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Minister, I was deeply touched when you were talking about people who telephone you alerting you about the stinking water. I do not know which water they are referring to here. But in St Johns, there is a place referred to as “stinking water”. That water is generally known by people. They say if you get inside this water, no matter what you are suffering from, you are immediately cured. If you drink that stinking water, your illness is cured. I believe this water must be protected because it serves as a remedy. Many do not know that, but they live there at St Johns. You, who are sick, go there so that you can see what nature can do for you.

In conclusion, let me say, indeed the water issue is very important particularly in the townships, there is water which is said to be free, but we do not see that in our bills for water consumption. [Interjections.] Alas, good people, is time an enemy to me, too?]

            MOTION MOVED ON 29 MARCH 2007 BY MR A WATSON

                              (Ruling)

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon members, before I proceed to call upon the next speaker, I would like to bring to your attention the ruling that I reserved on 29 March 2007. It was in the matter between the Chief Whip of the Council, hon Windvoël, and the hon Watson.

The ruling goes as follows: I would like to make a ruling on the reservations I made to a motion that was moved by hon Watson and objected to by the Chief Whip of the Council, on the basis that parties had agreed not to move motions without notice, if such motions are politically controversial.

I would therefore like to warn that any agreement between members and parties, which was not and has not been sanctioned by the House or endorsed by the House, will not have any binding effect on the House. However, parties are encouraged to adhere to any agreement they may have entered into within the structures of Parliament.

On that basis, I therefore rule that the motion without notice moved by hon Watson and objected to by the hon Chief Whip of the Council will become a notice of motion. Thank you.

Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Mnr die Voorsitter, in die Vrystaat is die Departement van Waterwese baie traag om die toekenning van waterregte te finaliseer. Dit sal baie goed wees as die agb Minister op ’n dringende basis daaraan kan aandag gee. Dit het ’n baie nadelige effek. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Hon Chairperson, the Department of Water Affairs in the Free State has been dragging its feet in finalising the awarding of water rights. It would be very useful if the hon Minister could intervene as a matter of extreme urgency. It has a rather negative effect.]

The guide to the National Water Act provides for protecting the health of the water resource, and this refers in particular to the quality thereof. It further provides for pollution prevention and makes it obligatory for any person to report to the police any accident or incident of water pollution. Failure to do that would be a crime.

In a recent report by the National Biodiversity Institute, it was found that 82% of South Africa’s rivers are being endangered by pollution and 42% thereof are critical, mostly because the sewerage systems, particularly their purification schemes, are collapsing in many parts of the country.

Shockingly, it was reported last week that the Minister said that the government would not crack down, legally, on municipalities that failed to prevent water pollution if the local authority lacked capacity to comply. The hon Minister is a lawyer herself and she would know that the law of contract has a maxim “impossibility of performance”, which applies. In certain circumstances, a person will not be held to a contract if it is impossible to perform its contractual duties. However, self-created impossibility is no excuse.

The municipalities and government created the lack of capacity themselves by getting rid of competent people and employing incompetent ones, through bad planning, political games, refusing to upgrade or maintain sewerage systems, and ignoring the pleas to do so. In addition, performance must be impossible, not merely difficult or costly. The department’s reasoning, therefore, is shocking and shows its unwillingness to protect our scarce water resources.

It’s hard for me to believe that the Minister really had this attitude. Maybe she was reported wrongly. I think today she has now the opportunity to put it right, because I can’t, in my wildest dreams, think that the Minister would be so unwilling to support municipalities not to comply with the Act. Thank you, Chairperson.

Ms B L MATLHOAHELA: Chairperson, I greet the hon Ministers and all members in the House. As we all know, water and trees are essential for the existence of mankind. Green trees and green vegetables absorb the carbon dioxide for the production of oxygen. On the other hand, trees serve as a heating substance for the poorest of the poor. When the poorest of the poor are gathering wood, they can be arrested. How do we deal with this situation in its own unique way?

It is winter right now. The heart of the ID goes out to these people. Preservation of forestry is essential, also within the context of global warming. Do we keep the balance in a health way between using forestry for economic use and the survival of humankind?

I need to bring to the attention of the hon Minister the lack of water in some places in the Northern Cape, where 3 000 people depend on nine taps for their water consumption. We again find that in other settlements water runs throughout the night and day from leaking taps. What measures are taken to preserve such water which is wasted? This is observed by those who pay the revenue in this country. These contradictory situations need to be given attention.

During the provincial week of May 2007, it came to the attention of the Northern Cape delegation that the Phokwane Municipality at Hartswater was in debt of R15 million for water. This amount was payable to the Sedibeng Water Board. The above-mentioned municipality is not in a financial position to level this debt. Due to this situation, the municipality cannot supply a water service to the community. We humbly request the attention of the hon Minister regarding the situation. This municipality earnestly needs assistance. This debt has been outstanding since 1996. Thank you, hon Chairperson.

Ms B N DLULANE: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister …

… amalungu ngokubanzi, Tat’ uWatson, ndisivile isikhalo sakho mna wakwa- ANC, kodwa bendiza kukucebisa ukuba, kuba uMphathiswa kunye nesebe lakhe belapha, uthethe naye. Kambe ndiyakhumbula ukuba kule komiti sikuyo sobabini sinengxaki enkulu malunga nokutshitshiswa kwamabhakethi asetyenziswa njengemizi yangasese. Sonke ekomitini savumelana ukuba sibuze kuMphathiswa ukuba ngaba akukho nto ingenziwa na. Ingxaki yaseMpumalanga uyiphakamisile yaza yaphendulwa. Sachaza ukuba sinengxaki yokuba la mabhakethi awazibandakanyi iindawo ezingamatyotyombe. Uyiphakamisile iSecunda. Ndifuna ukuba uMphathiswa ayive … (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)

[… Members at large, Mr Watson, as an ANC member, I heard your concern, but I was going to advise you that, since the Minister and her department are here, you speak to her. However, I acknowledge that in the committee to which both of us belong, we have a big problem regarding the eradication of the bucket system. We all agreed in the committee that we should ask the Minister if there is anything that can be done. You raised the problem of Mpumalanga and a response was given. We explained that the problem regarding the bucket system is that they do not include the informal settlements … You made mention of Secunda. I want the Minister to hear it ..]

… just because, when you were addressing this, there was a lot of noise in this House. I suppose there is a formal bucket system at Secunda. That thing must be taken to the Minister so that she can investigate it, together with the MEC. According to the report on the eradication of the bucket system, we have been told in the committee that there are only three provinces that require attention, which are Free State, Northern Cape and Eastern Cape. Mpumalanga was not mentioned.

However, we must not correct things in an incorrect manner in this debate. We must raise the point by saying that if it’s not correct, it was wrong information from the national department. That report came from the national department and it stated that there were about three provinces. But if it’s not so, Minister, this is your time to tell us, as this House, about what is happening in Mpumalanga.

The aim of this budget is to push back the frontiers of poverty and close the gap that has been created in the past, of resources concentrated in urban areas. Water availability means a change of life in the remote areas and economic activity that will benefit people who had been drinking in the same river or well with pigs, goats, donkeys and cattle. I do have an experience about what I’m saying. This is the past that we are not proud of, which resulted from apartheid.

A significant allocation from this budget has to make sure that the people of this country in the rural areas no longer drink with goats in the same river. It must make sure that the reservoirs don’t run dry. It is embarrassing to see that, when our people open taps, nothing comes out of the tap.

Our budget of R5,3 billion is allocated to this department this year to address what I have mentioned. It means that our government cares. I must confirm that even though there are those taps, the department cannot make water run in those taps without enough budget. In this budget there is an increase of R400 million for water and sanitation for this financial year and a further R620 million in the next financial year. I’m hoping that the caring organisation, which is the caring government, is trying to address whatever problems we inherited in the apartheid era. That’s why we are saying that there are still those problems. Without this budget and without the caring government, we cannot outdo the apartheid regime’s budgets, which only focused on those who have, while those who don’t have did not have such budgets.

In this financial year, a budget allocation of R1,9 billion has been set aside for water and sanitation. I believe that this allocation was made because water, sanitation and hygiene are vital components of sustainable development and alleviation of poverty.

Our government has been confronted with a situation in which not only have the majority of people in this country been excluded from the land, but they have also been denied either direct access to water and sanitation or productive use of and access to the resources. That’s why there are still these problems. Those who benefited from the apartheid regime are today making remarks when I say that there are still taps without water. This is because we have a huge backlog which comes from those who did benefit during the apartheid days.

There is only so much water that falls on our land every year. We need to engage ourselves in debates that can help us come up with feasible strategies to manage these resources. I want to commend the Minister and her department for the pleasing work they have done so far in the area of water resource management and bucket system eradication interventions, more especially in the Eastern Cape.

We did call public hearings on this matter, and very few people who still make use of the bucket systems in the formal settlements or those old four- roomed houses that were given to us by the then bosses, attended the hearings.

Regarding the Free State and the Northern Cape, as we have said, we were pleased that all those three MECs attended to your call. Surely, they have promised that by December 2007 they will be finished with that. However, the outstanding ones need your intelligence, Minister. I don’t know whether you can change the policy that has been formulated. I, Beauty, am saying this as a member of the ANC, because I do have complaints that I have received from my constituency concerning the definition of this thing. That doesn’t mean that you are not doing anything, but there are still buckets which were not budgeted for in this financial year. We are pleading that we must look at this thing.

Another exciting development we have seen this year is the commencement of the construction of the De Hoop Dam in Limpopo, which was launched on 19 March this year. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon members, before I call upon the hon Minister to reply to the debate, I want to make a plea concerning the fact that, for the entire duration of the debate, the hon Minister has respectfully listened to all of you, without interjecting or showing either approval or disapproval. My observation is that there is a tendency by some amongst us, who find it to be a good thing when Ministers reply to the debate, to heckle and interject when they don’t like certain things. I want to plead and warn in advance that such behaviour is not going to be tolerated.

The MINISTER OF WATER AFFAIRS AND FORESTRY: Malibongwe! Chairperson, I would like to, at the very outset, thank hon members for their lively participation in this debate.

I have noted the chairperson’s remarks around the responsibility of the department to ensure that our water resources are managed and kept clean. It is very important for hon members to note that most of the problems in this area are problems of capacity in municipalities to manage and maintain their infrastructure. We are working to ensure that that capacity is built in the municipalities, as this infrastructure was initially the infrastructure of the Department of Water Affairs and Forestry and was transferred. We are building capacity and we are moving towards a stage where we are going to be very tough on the municipalities.

I would like to say we have more information on the Hartebeespoort Dam and the exciting work that is going on there. However, time won’t allow me to deal with all of it. In conjunction with that point, I would like to go straight to the two points raised by hon Van Heerden. The first one deals with the process of allocation of water rights in the area where he comes from. I would want the FF to actually assist us to release water - most of which is in the hands of people who used to own land – in order for us to distribute it to people who had no water rights. That is the biggest challenge we are facing. We would want them to assist us in getting water rights allocated to black people who are new landowners and who are finding it very difficult to access water from some of the farmers who do have access and are not utilising it.

Secondly, I would like to respond to the hon Van Heerden’s point about the state of rivers and pollution and what we are doing as a department. We have a river health programme that is focusing on raising awareness and protection of rivers from pollution. To top up this initiative, the department is about to launch what we call an adopt-a-river strategy that will see the involvement of communities and officials assisting with the programme that parliamentarians have started by adopting and protecting certain rivers. As a department, we are aware of the challenges concerning old infrastructure which often leads to pollution of our dams and rivers.

This is what the hon Van Heerden said I would need to clear today. My view is that the department has the right to take any polluter to court to make them clean up their act, and we are working on the polluter-pays principle. But when it comes to municipalities, before we can take those municipalities to court we must provide them with support and guidance. Our approach to regulation is a developmental approach, given the capacity challenges that we find in the municipalities, as I have pointed out. I am working to ensure that capacity is built in these areas. I am addressing specific and particular municipalities where you find that sewage is running into our rivers. When the time is right, we are going to come down on those that are not cleaning up their act, including industries.

Let me now come to the second issue … time is running out. I agree with hon Van Rooyen. I don’t know whether the revolution is blue or green. It is a revolution, nevertheless.

Hon Watson, congratulations for your elevation to this new position. You know, the issues you raised about eMbalenhle are actually, I am informed, not correct. Buckets were eradicated in the area, but they went a step further and made sure that they removed buckets even in the informal areas. We are not aware of any overflowing sewerage lines, because deadlines for all work which was scheduled for completion in March were met, concerning work on improving the sewerage system. We do get monthly reports on the water quality in this area. We are monitoring them very closely. Therefore, most of what you were saying here is actually not true.

What is true about eMbalenhle is that in areas where they are planning for waterborne solutions in the future, they have in the meantime put in VIP toilets that can be upgraded into fully waterborne systems when the water is available. That is an ongoing project. I think this was a smaller part of the bigger problem that they had to solve but they are dealing with it. From where we stand, there are no buckets in this area and whatever solutions they have put in place, I think you should appreciate the very positive work that the municipality does in that area and what they have done to bring sanitation to the people.

Hon Mzizi, in fact, what you mentioned is a very serious issue. I am glad that both you and the hon member of the ID raised this issue, because forestry is going to become even bigger and more important in the whole scheme of things in our country. During the past year I approved a national list of protected tree species under the National Forests Act.

As a department, we have developed guidelines for the use of these trees to ensure the continued benefits that they offer to the people of the country, both economically and ecologically. For the first time ever in South Africa, we published what we call “21 championed trees”, which are then protected under this Act. We are assisting municipalities in this area. If trees have cultural, historical, aesthetic, economic significance, then they can identify those for protection. If you have this tree that you are talking about, please work around that issue with the municipality so that it can come onto our list of protected trees.

With regard to the issue raised by the hon member of the ID around the debts owed to the water boards, I should point out that we are working with National Treasury to resolve this debt issue. It is money owed by the municipalities to the water boards and this is a problem that we are facing all over the country as we deal with the developmental nature of our society, where the majority of our people cannot pay but the municipalities are expected to provide a service. We are trying to maintain that balance.

Hon Dlulane raised a serious plea on this policy of buckets. Why does the definition of the bucket system not include informal settlements? This is a definition that was adopted for a specific reason. Here were houses built, formally established houses, where people didn’t have proper sanitation and the President came to a decision that this must stop in December 2007. That is why we set up a programme and targets to ensure that no buckets will be seen in those areas after December 2007.

It is very difficult to say that you can eradicate buckets in all informal establishments when some of them mushroom overnight. What we need to decide is what form of service we can take to where our people are and ensure that growth of that kind of informal settlements is addressed by our human settlement plan, which the Minister of Housing is driving. We must not underestimate why this is happening - the population is growing. If you look at the survey done by GCIS, families are becoming smaller. Younger people are leaving home to go and live on their own. So, you have all these informal settlements mushrooming. Over and above that, regarding our very own good policy of providing RDP houses to people, people believe that they must be in the informal settlements to get onto the register of getting an RDP house. That also encourages people to move to these informal settlements.

From our view, we are going to eradicate the buckets in all formal established settlements this year and the rest of the informal settlements must be addressed by the human settlement programme. We must also recognise that we have agreed to give universal access to all these services for our people – Water 2008 and Sanitation 2010. So, as we move towards our universal access sanitation programme, we are also going to address those areas that were raised as areas of concern.

Hon Chairperson, I am informed that I have 38 seconds left. I just want to very quickly deal with the Free State because two people raised the issue of Free State. In the Free State we have been working very closely regarding the eradication of the bucket system. We are working with local government and with the provincial government. We have assessed, together with the departments, any funding shortfalls and we are going to assist with allocating funding to certain municipalities in the Free State. The province is also facilitating access to external funding in those municipalities and discussions with the DBSA are going ahead in this regard. Some municipalities have also gone ahead and looked for funding outside of their own budgets.

The most important intervention that the municipalities have agreed to do is to implement technology within the available funding. If you look at that R400 million that the Free State said they were short of, the fact of the matter is that they were talking about having full waterborne systems, even in areas where they knew there would be no water this year. If the area does not have water to provide waterborne systems, they have to put in place something that would enable them to provide proper sanitation to the people in the area – and not buckets. As we move towards universal access and if we provide the infrastructure for water and pipelines, and the sewerage treatment plants that would be needed; and if there are more people using the waterborne system, they should provide the water. It is advisable that municipalities take up this VIP system that can be upgraded. We have seen it in many areas of our country. Thank you, hon members. [Applause.] The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Order! Hon members, on your behalf, I think I must formally extend our gratitude to the hon Minister for providing leadership and inspiration to this august House, particularly against the background of the past weeks’ engagement by this House on this specific topic of bucket eradication within our provinces.

I think the debates were more helpful and informative and members will be able to go back to their provinces and counter-check some of the facts that are provided by the national department. The hon Minister is the only chief executive of that department and no information can be correct except what comes from her. Therefore, I think it was helpful. On that note, hon members, that concludes the debate and the business of the day.

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 15:48. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

TABLINGS:

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Minister of Foreign Affairs

       a) Strategic Plan for the Department of Foreign Affairs for 2007-
          2010.
   

2. The Minister of Safety and Security

   a) Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of Barbados on the contribution of the South African Police Service to the International Police Component for ICC Cricket World Cup West Indies 2007, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.

   b) Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of Saint Lucia on the contribution of the South African Police Service to the International Police Component for ICC Cricket World Cup West Indies 2007, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.

   c) Memorandum of Understanding between the Government of the Republic of South Africa and the Government of Grenada on the contribution of the South African Police Service to the International Police Component for ICC Cricket World Cup West Indies 2007, tabled in terms of section 231(3) of the Constitution, 1996.

3. The Minister of Environmental Affairs and Tourism

   a) The Strategic Plan for the Department of Environmental Affairs and Tourism for 2005-2006 to 2009-2010 revised for 2007-2008.

4. The Minister of Communications (a) Letter from the Minister of Communications to the Speaker requesting Parliament to initiate the process for the process of appointment of new Non-Executive Board Members for the South African Broadcasting Corporation as the terms of office of all current serving Non-Executive Board Members expires on 31 December 2007.