THURSDAY, 31 MAY 2007 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 14:00.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

  RORY SABBATINI WINS THE CROWN PLAZA INVITATIONAL GOLF TOURNAMEMNT

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:

That the Council –

1) notes with pride that South Africa’s Rory Sabbatini won the Crown
   Plaza Invitational golf tournament;

(2) further notes that Sabbatini made a 15-foot birdie putt on the first play-off hole to beat two world-class players; (3) congratulates Sabbatini on his outstanding victory; and

(4) wishes him many more future successes.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 6 – Public Works:

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Just before I call the Minister, let me say when I happen to be in the office, I open my monitor and check what is happening throughout Parliament. I observed that the Minister and the Deputy Minister were the first to walk into the Chamber. Congratulations! [Applause.] I am sure that you have broken the record of the members of the NCOP. I wish all of us could do that.

UNGQONGQOSHE WEZEMISEBENZI YOMPHAKATHI: Sihlalo nePhini lakho, malungu ahloniphekile ale Ndlu yoMkhandlu Kazwelonke Wezifundazwe, bozwakwethu abamele izingxenye zoMnyango Wezemisebenzi Yomphakathi, bosihlalo bamakomidi kanye nabaqondisi baleyo Minyango esebenzisana noMyango Wezemisebenzi Yomphakathi, ngiyanibingelela.

Ngemukela umqondisi-jikelele omusha woMnyango, njengoba nazi ukuthi ngenkathi silapha kulo nyaka odlule besingakabi naye, kanti manje sesinaye uMqondisi-Jikelele woMnyango Wezemisebenzi Yomphakathi, uMnu Manye Moroka. Ngicela asukume. [Ihlombe.] Ngiphinde futhi ngemukele amaPhini abaqondisi engiwabonayo akhona lapha avela eMnyangweni wami nabo bonke abasebenzi boMnyango abakhona, ngiphinde ngibingelele wonke umuntu okhona lapha eNdlini. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Chairperson and your Deputy, hon members of the National Council of Provinces, my colleagues who are representing sectors of the Department of Public Works, chairpersons of committees and directors of public entities working with the Department of Public Works, I greet you.

I also welcome our new director-general. As you know, when we were here last year, he had not joined us yet. Now we have the Director-General of the Department of Public Works, Mr Manye Moroka. I request him to stand up, please. [Applause.] I also welcome the deputy directors who are present here from my department and all the officials of the department present, and I greet everyone who is present in this House.]

The effort of national transformation continues to occupy the central focus of the Department of Public Works. As the infrastructure delivery arm of government, we are moving ahead to construct the new phase of South Africa’s infrastructure and property industries, using, in the first instance, the portfolio in the hands of government.

We are also conscious of our responsibility in the regulation of both the construction and property industries, as articulated in our policy statement of 1997. We are equally conscious that we exercise the management of the construction and property environment under a concurrent framework regime, as provided for by our Constitution.

While on the one hand there are exclusive functions that are given to national government such as norms and standards, and on the other there are functions that are given to provincial departments of public works and municipalities, we are also aware that, together, we are responsible for the management of this sector of Public Works. It is also true that, in exercising these concurrent functions, intergovernmental relations become important.

The current legislation that supports intergovernmental relations is new, as we all know, but it is for us to strengthen and ensure that, indeed, the ideas that are envisaged there of collaborative governance are actually put in place. This also requires political management of the sector as a whole. In addition, it requires funding.

When people go to the offices of Public Works, they do not know whether it is a national Public Works department or a provincial department. All they know is that it is the office of Public Works. Therefore, concerning the management of this function, we as political authorities responsible for it

• the Deputy Minister, MECs and I – are conscious of the fact that we have to align our work, both policy and implementation, to ensure that we can serve the people of our country.

It is also true that the political management of this sector can only happen when it is supported by funding. This realisation calls for a clear co-ordinating mechanism of both policy and implementation amongst the different spheres of government.

I am happy to report that last year, 2006, as Minister, Deputy Minister and MECs responsible for public works, we were able to formally constitute our intergovernmental structure on public works, as is required by the Intergovernmental Relations Framework Act. This institutional mechanism allows for a forum of heads of department, led by the director-general, to attend to the processing and implementation of the issues that have been decided at political level.

I am also happy to share with this House that our public entities are now full participants in the work of the Department of Public Works family. They are, in a sense, a resource and an extension of the pool that will enable us to achieve our objectives and, in part, that is why we have our chairperson and the chief executive officer of the Independent Development Trust present with us today.

Hon members, following our constitution of the intergovernmental structure, the SA Local Government Association has become another active participant in our forum. Salga’s participation has given us better insight into the challenges that municipalities face in the implementation of our Expanded Public Works Programme. But, at the same time, it has offered opportunity for engagement in how we could speed up the roll-out of the programme in this sphere of government.

During this budget debate, I wish to invite hon members to consider the department’s strategic plan. I say so because our strategic plan is a reflection of the challenges that our country faces today. Therefore our quest for social transformation is based on the understanding that poverty, unemployment and underdevelopment remain our central challenge.

In responding to this challenge, we therefore continue to seek ways in which we can make our contribution as the public sector family, utilising the resources at our disposal and within our mandate. Some of these resources are state assets that we are custodians of. It is for this reason that we launched the National Youth Service for the maintenance of buildings, on 14 April 2007, in the Free State. This year, 2007, together with provinces, we will enrol 10 000 young people who will become the first cohort of our National Youth Service.

These young people will first and foremost have an opportunity to receive training in relevant fields in the sphere of the built environment. The two categories of enrolment will be, on one hand, that of young unemployed graduates and on the other hand it will be those who have passed Grade 10 or 12 and have not been able to go to college or university, but who have an interest in the building industry. What this means, therefore, is that we will be contributing towards the skills challenge that our country has identified through the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa.

We will also be creating an opportunity where these young people can be proud to serve their country. We will be preparing them for employment. Finally, we will be building the capacity of the construction industry, a sector that is pivotal in delivering the infrastructure needed for economic growth.

I indicated earlier that the unemployment challenge remains central amongst those we have to address. As at 2007, this government is fulfilling its commitment to the Growth and Development Summit that identified the Expanded Public Works Programme as an intervention for job creation. You will also appreciate that we set ourselves a target of creating one million job opportunities by 2009. This year, 2007, we are at the mid-term of office as government. Therefore, it is necessary to assess how far we have gone both in terms of quantity and quality. I am pleased to report that as of December 2006, the Expanded Public Works Programme has delivered 573 269 net job opportunities ahead of the target for the same period and exceeded its targets for women and youth. [Applause.]

The impact of this programme in its various facets can be articulated as follows. Firstly, working with the Construction Industry Development Board, the construction Seta, Department of Labour, Independent Development Trust and Absa, we have actually created 720 small contractors that have qualified through the accredited Vukuphile learnerships programme to exit as fully-fledged contractors at Grades 3, 4 and 5.

In this context, the EPWP will scale up to achieve 3 000 learnerships over the next two years and the Independent Development Trust will intensify its focus on women in construction, thus promoting their employment, skills and development as contractors. We have decided that we are going to give the IDT this mandate, so that we don’t talk about women empowerment generally, but rather have a focused instrument that would enable us to achieve that objective.

Provincial initiatives such as Sakhabakhi in Mpumalanga and Sakhasonke in Limpopo are all tributaries of the EPWP Vukuphile small contractor development and learnership programme, underpinning the commitment to co- operative governance and the attainment of common national goals.

Secondly, the Independent Development Trust has been particularly successful in supporting provincial departments of public works, and the departments of education and health in addressing the backlogs in social infrastructure delivery. The IDT has developed and refined a service delivery model which is rooted in labour-intensive methodologies and EPWP principles.

Thirdly, a committee made up of the national Departments of Public Works and Transport and their provincial departments, together with the Presidency and Treasury, will co-ordinate the utilisation and implementation of the additional R3 billion allocated under the provincial infrastructure grant for the construction and maintenance of provincial infrastructure, including road access, contributing to the further expansion of the Extended Public Works Programme.

Hon members will recall that when the Minister of Finance tabled the Budget this year, out of R9 billion which was allocated for transport, R3 billion of that was specifically earmarked for rural roads and for those rural roads which will be dealt with under the Expanded Public Works Programme. This is the amount that we are referring to.

However, we remain concerned with what appears to be a disregard for EPWP principles in the provision of some infrastructure projects, particularly in some of our national departments and in certain provinces. I must say that the team led by our Deputy Director-General, Bongani Gxilishe, is doing all it can to ensure that a number of infrastructure departments can actually work with us to expand the net of creating employment for those who are unemployed, using the EPWP as a flagship.

One of the new areas identified for the scaling up of the EPWP is the waste management programme, which we will be piloting in targeted municipalities. A technical support programme will also be rolled out in conjunction with the private sector to assist municipalities to implement the EPWP initiatives in the infrastructure sector, with the aim of addressing the concern about municipalities that continue to post low job-creation data.

Hon members, provincial departments’ innovations have always shown themselves in different ways. Regarding waste management, the KwaZulu-Natal department of transport, a custodian of the EPWP co-ordination in the province, working with our Department of Public Works as well as the Hibiscus Municipality on the South Coast, have started a programme which is known as garbage for food exchange. This programme is aimed at ensuring that local communities can collect waste and exchange it for food. So, instead of appointing one contractor, you can spread the rand amongst many families. In this municipality, for instance, 200 households have been enrolled. They collect, sort the waste and bring it to a central point where it is then measured, and that measurement on a scale indicates the vegetables that they can get. They get 200 vouchers that they can use at Checkers to buy other foodstuffs in order to supplement their food security.

What this has done is that it has created employment for those who are unemployed and it has also improved our environment in that township. The programme has also ensured that those families can improve their food security status.

On 15 February 2007, we held the maiden awards ceremony. I call it “maiden” because it was for the first time that we held the EPWP excellence awards ceremony as an annual event in recognition of the men, women and youth around the country involved in the Expanded Public Works Programme. Most provinces gave a good account of themselves through the quality of their nominations. Once again, we congratulate all the winners and thank them for their participation. It is also an instrument that we are using to encourage as many public sector partners as possible to participate in the Expanded Public Works Programme.

Through the Construction Industry Development Board, we have established the national register of contractors to regulate the construction sector for improved quality and equity, and to create a firm foundation for development and transformation of the industry. The latest data indicates that over 30 000 contractors are now registered nationally, with Gauteng leading the pack. The register also records 15 international entries, a clear signal of global interest in the current construction boom in our country.

It is worth noting that over 1 500 contractors improved their grading status across the country and 85% of these are black-owned small and medium- sized enterprises.

Contractor registration now enables targeted development interventions to address equity and capacity gaps and to raise the quality of work delivered. This year’s budget therefore provides for the establishment of the national contractor development programme that will be led through partnership between the national and provincial public works departments, together with the Construction Industry Development Board. Our focus is on sustainable enterprises. Sustainable enterprises perform better. They are better employers and contribute to skills development.

Implementation of the Government Immovable Asset Management Act, which you have also passed as this House, will enable us to improve our implementation of the National Infrastructure Maintenance Strategy, which will address concerns particularly with regard to the delivery of essential municipal services and infrastructure.

Amongst other things, the National Infrastructure Maintenance Strategy will strengthen the national regulatory framework governing planning and budgeting for the maintenance of infrastructure, and will also provide nonfinancial assistance to those institutions which require it. It is another way in which we can capture more people, particularly young people and put them into employment.

To reverse the legacy of apartheid, spatial planning, which deprived the majority of people of the right to access and own property, we will begin this year to leverage the state’s assets in order to transform the property sector in favour of blacks, women and emerging entrepreneurs.

Every year, the government, through the national Department of Public Works – and I am not even mentioning municipalities but rather the two spheres, that is national and provinces - invests billions of rands of its budget to lease property from the industry in which only less than 10% of players are from the historically disadvantaged groups.

Our regional offices in Durban and Nelspruit, for instance, have a zero percentage for BEE, particularly in leasing. Our people continue to be excluded. Members will recall that one of the initiatives that we have as government in broadening the base of our economy is to allow more of our people to participate. This is totally unacceptable, as echoed by other members when they expressed their sentiments loudly.

There is an urgent need to develop and implement a strategy that will create space for the transformation of the property industry. This strategy should include aspects such as addressing the skewed ownership that currently characterises the property industry; promoting black participation in the property industry through management control and procurement, which is currently lacking; and creating jobs and alleviating poverty, thus assisting government to attain its 2014 objectives.

Accordingly, some of the interventions we intend using in fostering BEE in the property industry include, among other things, leases, disposals, facilities management and maintenance, property brokering, tenant installations and management of payment of the municipal accounts through the National Youth Service Programme.

One of the areas we intend improving on is the asset register and this is an ongoing process within the department. The reason we are highlighting this is that hon members, even in this House, have consistently asked the department to work on an asset register that also caters for provincial and municipal properties. However, the three spheres of government are administered by different sets of rules that need to be considered in the development of a well-thought-out model. We are committed to working with provinces and municipalities to finalise the model for implementation later this year.

Chairperson and members, I wish to thank my Deputy Minister, the MECs, my colleagues from the various provinces, for their commitment and contribution over the past years. I also wish to thank the director-general and his team for having been there to support us through this year and the years before, in order for us to be able to achieve our objectives, more particularly to make a dent in fighting poverty, unemployment and underdevelopment.

I take this opportunity to thank the NCOP for the confidence they have shown in my department. Since 2005, we have participated enthusiastically and without fail in your campaign of Taking Parliament to the People, and we have pitched up our exhibition tents at a moment’s notice, starting at Empangeni, KwaZulu-Natal and then moving to KwaMhlanga, in Mpumalanga, Tzaneen, Tumahole, Parys and recently Sebokeng, in Gauteng.

Our effort and passion is driven by our unwavering commitment to interactive and co-operative governance in consolidation of our democracy and our progress as a developmental state. Indeed, the 2007 budget is a reflection of this commitment. I have thanked you in advance, because I know this House will always support the budget of Public Works. I thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.] [Laughter.] The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: I am sure the House will agree with me if I say, on its behalf, we all welcome Mr Moroka, the new Director-General of the Department of Public Works. But, if you pay me a courtesy call, I will tell you what they are looking for from you. It’s not an easy job. The MPs will want to reach you every day and you can also talk to the Chief Whip who leads them almost all the time. He will tell you what they expect from you.

Mr R J TAU: Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, hon members, MECs from the respective provinces and comrades, I think I must say that it is quite difficult today to really engage on this policy debate, because, as a committee, we had resolved … [Interjections.] The committee just sent me a note reminding me that I shouldn’t forget that we had already welcomed Mr Moroka in the committee, as the new director-general. So I must welcome him now officially in the House, on behalf of the committee – the chairperson did it on behalf of the institution. So, you are welcome.

The context in which the committee had resolved to approach the debate is based on the fact that this is, of course, a mid-term review of our third Parliament. Informed by that strategic approach that we agreed upon, I am tempted to make some reflections on the recent past, when the department, and in particular the Expanded Public Works Programme, was seriously criticised. In some areas it was seen as a wasteful expenditure and others viewed it as a positive interventionist strategy aimed at contributing to the programme of the ANC in fighting poverty and capacitating our people with the relevant skills that will allow them to be able to participate meaningfully in the economy.

One of the academics from the University of Cape Town had this to say about the Expanded Public Works Programme, and I quote:

While public works programmes are a valid component of a social protection policy, the Expanded Public Works Programme is unlikely to have a significant impact on the problems of poverty and labour market access or their associate growth, unless the proportion of government expenditure allocated to the programme substantially increased and the associated institutional constraints are addressed.

What I find quite interesting about this comment is the fact that it received a lot of attention from the print media, in particular. It was publicised as if our people never understood that the Expanded Public Works Programme is for relief. And, at the same time, the challenges that go with the programme were pointed out.

In 2005 and 2006 policy debates the committee raised some of these challenges very sharply with the department and there was a commitment by the department to correct some of these shortcomings. Some of the serious issues we identified, hon Minister, in the previous Budget Vote debates were the question of linking the EPWP with the broad-based black economic empowerment agenda of our government; and, secondly, assisting programme participants in establishing co-operatives, because the emphasis we put as a committee was on the extent to which they are assisted to establish co- operatives and capacitated to manage them properly. The question of corruption was also one of the issues that we raised, particularly in the building industry; and project leaders who employ relatives or friends and, of course, others who then use the EPWP as an instrument of patronage.

In some provinces, Minister, it was alleged that the programme was also used as a means of extending, as I said initially, patronage by officials of the department or the municipalities, of course. We also raised the question of a lack of understanding and co-ordination within and amongst the spheres of government, in terms of what it is that we need to do, as explained in the EPWP principles, because in some provinces we had identified that the co-ordinating committees that were established and were geared at ensuring that there is proper co-ordination were very weak and others excluded key people that are supposed to play a role in co- ordination of the Expanded Public Works Programme.

The poor functioning of these structures led to some of the provinces leaving out one of the main instruments in the main activities, that is municipalities. As a matter of fact, it is us, members of the ANC, who raised the question of the limited budget that the department had at its disposal to be able to execute this task, and no one else in this House.

We had consistently critiqued the department for lack of oversight in provinces. I thank you very much for having raised that as an issue that you have also identified at the level of the Ministry, regarding the commitment they have made as a contribution to the EPWP. We have also noted previously, hon Minister, that it is one of the grey areas that we think need strategic intervention from your department.

As we have said before, the EPWP integrates, amongst other things, the objectives of the development of the social and economic infrastructure, human resource development, enterprise development and poverty alleviation. As a result of the above, the department had a national launch of these programmes throughout all our provinces.

Once these launches had already been done, we had said, as the committee together with the department, that we needed to make a review. And, I thank you, once more, because you have already said that you are in the process of reviewing the successes, especially of those provinces that we identified as nodal provinces.

As we said in the previous debates, once more: It is important for the department to familiarise themselves with the contents of the report of the NCOP’s Taking Parliament to the People. It is as if you knew what I was going to say, hon Minister, and I am going to leave that part out, because that was one of the key things that we had thought to raise very sharply here. Thank you very much for the proactive approach by the department and for your leadership in ensuring that the issues that are raised by our people on the ground are taken on board as and when the department develops its strategies, particularly by utilising this resource, which is the NCOP.

When we go out there, key issues are raised by our people on the ground and it will be good that officials are there to pick those up and respond to such challenges that are raised by our people. One striking fact that we observed was that there seemed to be a challenge in as far as co-ordination of the EPWP by the national departments is concerned, including provincial departments and local municipalities, of course. We know that there are number of national departments that have committed themselves to contribute at a policy level and at a monitory level in order to compliment what the EPWP seeks to achieve. But, we have not seen that at a practical level. Hon Minister, where it happens, you would not see the infusion but rather, in some areas, you would see some elements which indicate some sense of competition that seeks to play itself out in the process of doing our work. One practical example that one can give around this disintegration of programmes is what we saw when we were in the Free State, during Taking Parliament to the People. There is a practical thing that happened there and I am happy that the hon MEC is also here. There was a project that we were taken to. It was defined as an EPWP project, but one would then find officials from the provincial department saying, “No, in terms of our database, this is not part of EPWP”. On the other hand, those from the municipality would be saying that that was an EPWP. Therefore, one could see that there was disintegration in terms of information and understanding. I think this is an important issue and, of course, we raised it with the MEC as well to ensure that we would be able to improve on that area of co-ordination.

We take note of the historic activity that took place in this department. I must emphasise this thing: For a very long time we have been struggling to get something that is referred to as the asset register of our country. The director-general, Moroka, injected energy because ever since his appointment and on the first interaction with the committee he was able to say, “Here is work in progress,” after we had demanded to see that. That was his baptism and really, he responded accordingly. We do have something, at least, that gives us a sense of what is happening in the country. We have identified, of course, some grey areas that we think need some improvement and he has committed himself to do exactly that.

As a handyman to the state, we urge the department to complete that job very carefully. We also urge it to, in a way, ensure that we don’t lose some of these gaps because in one of the municipalities in the Phokwane area, in the Northern Cape, we picked up that the municipalities had property which belonged to the national department, but the Department of Public Works was not even aware that it had that kind of property within the jurisdiction of the municipality.

Upon reporting that kind of resource that they had, because they wanted to use it for their own local economic development strategy, it was taken away without even going back to the municipalities or trying to infuse that as part of the local economic development agenda of that particular municipality.

Hon Minister, since we have said that this is a mid-term review, I will not be able to justify my participation in this debate if I do not remind the department that it had committed itself to giving us a full report on the EPWP. What we are interested in and what we would want to see addressed are issues related to exit strategy, the kind of principles that we had set, and the extent to which municipalities play a strategic role in the success of the EPWP. Those are the kind of programmes that we would want to engage on.

I can see that I am running out of time. I am well aware that, regarding the areas that we raised with the department, there is still a lot to do. We will continue to engage with the department on areas that we think need further attention. We trust that the department, as a custodian of our immovable assets, will ensure that they remain in good condition and contribute to the local economic development of our areas, where they are located; and that they are in good shape for the benefit of the workers and poor. Thank you very much. [Applause]

Mnr A WATSON: Voorsitter, agb Minister, agb lede, vroeër hierdie week het ons die nuwe direkteur-generaal ontmoet en ek wil hom ook graag verwelkom namens die DA en ek hoop dat sy termyn vrugtevol sal wees. Toe ons hom ontmoet het, het ek aan hom gesê dat wanneer die naam van die Departement van Openbare Werke by die parlementslede genoem word, dan is daar gewoonlik reaksies ten opsigte van drie van die sake van dié departement, naamlik die Program vir Uitgebreide Openbare Werke waarna beide die Minister en die Voorsitter verwys het. Die tweede kwessie is behuising vir parlementslede, wat natuurlik hoog op die lys is. Derdens is dit die bateregister van staatseiendomme en die instandhouding van dergelike eiendomme, waarna ook reeds verwys is.

Eerstens wil ek graag net ’n oomblik stilstaan by die Uitgebreide Openbare Werke-program van die regering en ek wil die Minister geluk wens met die indrukwekkende syfers van meer as ’n halfmiljoen mense wat reeds baat gevind het by hierdie program, soos sy aangedui het en ook die ander dag tydens vraetyd genoem het. Ek het egter twee probleme. Eerstens bly dit vir my onduidelik of daar in hierdie program ook voorsiening gemaak word vir ’n voorsettingsstrategie. Die Voorsitter het ook reeds daarna verwys.

Dit is verblydend om nou by die Minister te hoor van diegene wat reeds gevorder het, wat reeds bevorder is en wat ook beloon is met sertifikate en dies meer. Dit is die onopgeleide mense wat deel is van hierdie program, oor wie ons bekommerd is. Wat help dit om aan mense ’n tydelike loon te betaal, terwyl hulle, soos dit behoort te wees, opleiding in hul werk ontvang, maar daar is nie ’n behoorlike voortsettingsstrategie nie. Daardie mense moet in die formele arbeidsektor opgeneem word om ook so ’n volledige, volhoubare program te kan hê.

Tweedens wil dit voorkom, volgens die oorsigbesoeke wat ons as komitee gedoen het in ons provinsies en elders, asof die program merendeels toegespits word op paaie en minder ingewikkelde bouprojekte. Ek hoor die Minister sê dat dit ook vorder na bouaannemerskappe en so meer, maar my vraag aan die Minister handel spesifiek oor haar departement as hooffasiliteerder van hierdie program: word daar genoegsaam gekyk na ander projekte? Ek dink veral aan die uitroeiing van indringerplante en onkruid langs ons paaie en in ons riviere en woongebiede. Ons hoor daar is ’n probleem met die ander departemente, maar ek dink daar moet baie ernstig aandag gegee word aan die saak. Ek glo dat my kollegas saamstem, dat ons meer van hierdie programme sal wil weet en wat die volle besonderhede daarvan is. Ek doen derhalwe ’n beroep op die Minister om ons van die betrokke inligting, so omvattend moontlik, te voorsien.

Wat parlementêre behuising betref, wat natuurlik ’n netelige puntjie onder parlementslede is, is ons dankbaar vir die uiteindelike opgradering van ons behuising. Ek glo egter dat ons goeie geld bestee aan ’n slegte saak, veral in Akasiapark. ‘n Mens kan aanhou om geld te spandeer op voor-oorlogse en voorafvervaardigde geboue, maar dit is presies wat dit bly, ongeag die hoeveelheid geld wat daaraan spandeer word. Dit is voor-oorlogse bungalows en “pre-fabs” in die meeste gevalle. Dit is nou tyd dat die Minister die voortou neem om behuising nader aan die Parlement te skep. Dit is wêreldwyd ’n tendens om mense nader aan die werkplek te bring, of om die werkplek nader aan die mense te bring. Die miljoene der miljoene rande wat tans aan die parlementêre dorpe spandeer word, sou ten opsigte die deposito vir so ’n projek kon betaal en dalk nog meer. Dink net, geagte Minister, aan die positiewe bydrae wat ons sou kon lewer ten opsigte van die beskerming van die osoonlaag, met die vermindering van die daaglikse uitlaatgasse van ons motors en busse. Ek weet nie of daar dalk gegewe belange is by die busse om hierdie ding te vertraag nie. Ek sou graag wil hê dat die Minister dringend hieraan aandag moet gee.

Laastens is daar die kwessie van die staat se vaste bates, waarna reeds deur die Minister en die Voorsitter verwys is. Tydens ’n onlangse voorlegging van die departement aan ons gekose komitee, is daar aan ons uitgewys dat daar nog steeds probleme ondervind word om ’n volledige register van staatsbates saam te stel. Van hierdie probleme sluit in, die registrasie van eiendomme wat verkeerdelik beskou word as die eiendom van ander regspersone, of eiendomme wat beskou is as staatseiendomme, maar wat in werklikheid aan ander regspersone behoort. Dit alleen onderskryf die totale gebrek aan beheer wat daar tot nou toe geheers het en ek is baie bly dat dit een van die prioriteite van die nuwe DG is om hierdie ding nou einde ten laaste reg te stel.

Wat nog meer onverstaanbaar is van die status quo, is dat in die pogings van die departement tot dusver om opmetings van eiendomme te doen, daar eiendomme van die staat ontdek is waarvan daar nie kennis bestaan nie. In Mpumalanga alleen sê die nuwe DG is daar 1 832 eiendomme geoormerk vir opmeting, maar uiteindelik was nie minder as 2 509 eiendomme opgemeet. Dit is ’n toename van 758 eiendomme waarvan ons nie geweet het nie.

Dit is onverstaanbaar hoe die regering en veral die departement na 13 jaar van toegewyde aandag nog nie die probleem opgelos het nie. Ons hoop dit gaan nou gebeur en ons kan maar net hoop, Voorsitter, dat die wetsontwerp op die batebestuur van die vaste eiendom van die staat, wat ons Woensdag goedgekeur het, die gewenste uitwerking sal hê. Miskien moet die Minister sommer nou al vir die Afrika Parlement sê dat as ons in die beoogde en veelbesproke Verenigde State van Afrika sukses wil hê, hulle asseblief tog nie vir ons die Departement van Openbare Werke moet gee nie. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Mr A WATSON: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, earlier this week we met the new director-general and on behalf of the DA, I would also like to welcome him and I hope his term will be fruitful. When we met him, I told him that when the name of the Department of Public Works is mentioned near Members of Parliament there are usually reactions in respect of three of the matters concerning this department, namely the Extended Public Works Programme, referred to by both the Minister and chairperson. The second issue is housing for Members of Parliament; naturally it is high on the list. Thirdly, this has also been referred to already, the asset register of state-owned property and the maintenance of such property.

Firstly, I just want to pause for a moment at the Extended Public Works Programme of the government and congratulate the Minister on the impressive figures of more than half a million people who have benefited by this programme, as she indicated and also mentioned the other day during the questions session. I, however, have two problems. Firstly it remains unclear to me if provision is made in this programme for a continuity strategy. The chairperson has also referred to it already.

It is heartening to hear from the Minister about those who have already progressed, who have already been promoted and who have also been rewarded with certificates and so forth. It is the unqualified people who are part of this programme that we are worried about. How does it help to pay people temporary wages while they, as it should be, receive on-the-job training, but there is no appropriate continuity strategy? These people must be assimilated in the formal labour sector in order to have a comprehensive, sustainable programme.

Secondly, it would seem, according to the oversight visits that we as a committee conducted in our provinces and elsewhere, as if this programme, for the greater part, is focused on road building and less complicated building projects. I heard the Minister saying that it is progressing to building contractor apprenticeships and so forth, but my question to the Minister is specifically about her department as the chief facilitator of this programme: Are other projects receiving adequate consideration? I am thinking especially about the eradication of alien plants and weeds next to our roads and in our rivers and residential areas. We heard that there is a problem with other departments, but I think that very serious attention should be given to this matter. I believe that my colleagues would agree that we would like to know more about these programmes and the full details thereof. I am therefore appealing to the Minister to provide us, as comprehensively as possible, with the relevant information.

As for parliamentary housing, which is of course a sensitive topic among Members of Parliament, we are grateful for the eventual upgrading of our housing. However, I believe that we are spending good money on a bad project, especially in Acacia Park. One can continue to spend money on prewar and prefabricated buildings, but that is precisely what it will remain, in spite of the amount of money being spent on it. Prewar bungalows and “prefabs” in most of the cases. Minister, now is the time to show the way and construct housing closer to Parliament. It is a worldwide trend to move people closer to their place of employment, or to bring the place of employment closer to the people. The millions and millions of rands that are currently being spent on parliamentary villages could have served as the deposit for this type of project and perhaps even more. Just think, hon Minister, of the positive contribution we could make in respect of protecting the ozone layer, with the decrease in the daily exhaust gases of our cars and buses. I do not know if there might be a vested interest by the buses to delay this thing. I would like the Minister to urgently look into this matter.

Lastly, there is the issue of the state’s fixed assets, to which the Minister and the chairperson have already referred. At a recent presentation by the department to our select committee, it was pointed out to us that problems are still being experienced in compiling a complete register of all state assets. Some of these problems include the registration of property that was incorrectly considered to be the property of other corporate bodies, or property that was considered to be state- owned, but in reality belonged to other corporate bodies. This alone endorses the total lack of control that had prevailed till now and I am very glad that it is one of the new DG’s priorities to finally rectify this problem.

What is even more incomprehensible about the status quo is that in the department’s attempts till now to carry out surveys of the property, state properties were discovered of which no knowledge exists. The new DG says that in Mpumalanga alone there are 1 832 properties that have been earmarked for surveying, but in the end no fewer than 2 509 properties were surveyed. This is an increase of 758 properties that we did not know of. It is incomprehensible that after 13 years of devoted attention the government and particularly the department have still not solved the problem.

We hope that it will occur now and we can only hope, Chairperson, that the Bill regarding the asset management of the state’s fixed property, which we approved on Wednesday, will have the desired effect. Maybe the Minister should tell the African Parliament now already that if we want to be successful in the envisaged and often discussed United States of Africa, they must please not give it to our Department of Public Works. I thank you.]

Mr C MARTIN (Eastern Cape): Chairperson, mine is definitely not going to be a maiden speech but, I will just look at the few points that hon Watson made, especially when it comes to the EPWP. The hon member said “ander projekte” [other projects].

Ek dink in die Oos-Kaap, agb Watson, het ons probeer om dit deur ’n ander metode, want dit is ’n “concern” van ons kant af, aan te pak. Ons het deur die Aptcod-metode probeer, ’n ander metode van werkskepping. Dit sal in die toespraak uitkom. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraph follows.)

[I think, hon Watson, that in the Eastern Cape we have tried a different method to address it because it is a concern for us. We tried the Aptcod method, which is a different method of job creation. This will become apparent in the speech.]

Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, all MECs and Director- General Moroka, hon members of the House, distinguished guests, ladies and gentlemen, and fellow South Africans, allow me to remind this House that, during the course of this year, a number of historic milestones will be celebrated by the people of the Eastern Cape. These include, among other things, the 90th anniversary of the birth of Oliver Tambo, the 30th anniversary of the death in detention of Steve Bantu Biko and the fifth anniversary of the reburial of the remains of the Khoi icon, Sarah Baartman, in Hankey in 2002.

Having understood the sacrifices of the Mandelas, the Tambos, the Bikos, the Mbekis, the Baartmans and numerous souls of the Eastern Cape soil who contributed to our liberation struggle, we should correctly ask: What progress have we made in the quest to achieve the objective which we honestly told the nation we were committed to?

Keeping our privileged position of governing the people of the Eastern Cape in South Africa in mind, it is natural that we should put the question to ourselves whether we act in a manner that demonstrates the commitment to a struggle against poverty and racism to advance the cause of accelerated economic growth, eradication of poverty and social cohesion.

President Thabo Mbeki’s said, and I quote:

The South African story in the past 13 years is a story of sustained economic progress away from a country that had isolated itself; and that the country is now playing a leading role in Africa and a positive role in the world stage.

This demonstrates that the government, in particular the provincial government of the Eastern Cape, has and will always own its commitment to serve the poor with humility, honesty and integrity. The result of a recent Markinor survey which declared our beloved Premier Nosimo Balindlela “the most popular Premier in South Africa” bears testimony to our commitment to serving the poor.

As the Department of Public Works, we remain attentive to the part which we have to play to fulfil our commitment to the poor. The White Paper on the transformation of Public Works published in 1997 outlines our focus areas and the road ahead. Besides the policy framework of the new government, captured through the RDP and developed by Gear, the task of the department is also focused on institutional issues.

I am pleased to announce that my department had a successful event two weeks ago in uMthatha where we welcomed the intake of 250 students enrolled on the Accelerated Professional And Trade Competency Development programme, Aptcod. It is the first of its kind in the country and is aimed at addressing the skills shortage in the building sector. To fulfil our infrastructure targets with Aptcod, the department of public works in the Eastern Cape aligned itself with the National Skills Development Strategy, whose vision is “skills for sustainable growth, development and equity”.

One of the critical indicators of the National Skills Development Strategy is that by March 2010, at least 10 000 young people should be trained and mentored to form sustainable new ventures. The department intends to develop 1 000 artisans for this financial year. In the period 2008 until 2014, we intend to develop 10 000 artisans. This will be translated into 60 000 more indirect jobs for the province.

Through Aptcod, thousands of previously disadvantaged students will have the opportunity to further their technical education, which will equip them with the necessary skills and knowledge. Through the Aptcod principle, we have actually engaged the FET colleges and two universities within the province. We have signed memorandums of understanding for taking the learners into our projects and providing them with the necessary skills and jobs, through that method.

The contribution of the Eastern Cape in ensuring the success of the Expanded Public Works Programme indicates that 35 000 job opportunities have been created to date in the province. Almost 11 000 of those include the youth. Fifty per cent of jobs created were for women. In total, 227 job opportunities have been created for people with disabilities. These figures indicate that we have managed to meet the targets for both the youth and women. This achievement clearly displays our commitment to advance the cause of women and our young people – the future of the Eastern Cape province.

Through the contributions of district municipalities, provincial departments and Koega, our province has rolled out 400 learnerships since the implementation of the EPWP in 2004. When it comes to the Construction Industry Development Programme, the capacitating of emerging contractors remains one of the major challenges faced by the construction industry development programme of my department. To address it requires an aggressive strategy. The directorate intends to select 120 contractors per year in its pilot capacitating plan over a period of three years. In order for the programme to assess its performance, it must at least ensure that 60% of contractors under the capacitating plan graduate to higher grade and that the other 40% must have graduated and progressed to the next grade.

In our endeavours to advance the cause of emerging contractors, I am pleased to announce that a total of 18 tender advice centre officers have been appointed across the province. These officers will assist and advise contractors undertaking construction work for the department on tender processes, procedures and how to complete tender documents in a very comprehensive manner.

Concerning financial support, my department has managed to expand the pool of financial support to emerging contractors by concluding agreements with Nurcha and the Business Finance Promotion Agency, BFPA. The BFPA alone, through its financier, Khula, has placed R1 million for this financial year. We also invite other financial institutions to come on board to advance the cause of our emerging contractors.

I am very pleased to state that a total of 2 800 contractors have been registered with the construction industry development board in the Eastern Cape.

Our asset register indicates that a total number of 10 368 provincial assets have been registered. However, in order to speed up the process of registering provincial assets, we are planning to migrate to an additional asset register called e-works. It is an integrated asset management system developed by national Public Works. We will use the system free of charge and it will enable us to have a holistic picture of the assets in the province.

The Eastern Cape has made considerable progress with the confirmation of vesting of both national and provincial properties. At the end of the last financial year, the percentage for vesting in the Eastern Cape stood at 34,9%. In terms of percentages, the Eastern Cape is third best compared to other provinces.

Concerning the residents of the ministerial complex, we have the same challenges as the hon members at national level, but we are looking at that from a provincial point of view.

In conclusion, let me take this opportunity to reassure the people of the Eastern Cape and the country that I and the department are equal to the challenges. We are ready to serve them with humility and diligence. Contrary to what the detractors of democracy are insinuating, with zeal and commitment we will succeed. I thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Thobela! [Good day!]

Hon Chairperson, hon Minister of Public Works, hon members, provincial MECs for Public Works, Public Works plays a critical role in service delivery by providing the state with infrastructure necessary for social development and economic growth.

The department has continuously worked hard to improve its operations and efficiency and to ensure that capital works and maintenance budgets are properly invested in the areas where they will help increase output, improve service delivery, reduce public infrastructure backlogs while promoting economic growth, particularly among the sections of our population still trapped in the second economy.

In recognition, the department has, for two successive years, been accorded unqualified audit reports. Strengthened by this experience, the department welcomes the 2007 Vote allocation of R3 693 120 000.

Looking back, the department is heartened by the growing strength of co- operative governance and intergovernmental co-operation, including the efforts of the public entities in upholding its delivery record from the procurement and provision of pristine structures, on behalf of our client departments in their quest to improve their service delivery, to the creation of community assets for social development and poverty alleviation under the National Public Works Programme. Consequently, the budget includes allocations to the entities reporting to Public Works in recognition of their role to support the thrust of public works activity both nationally and provincially.

Through the intergovernmental forum of public works MECs, we have also intensified co-operation to further support the role of provincial public works departments in aligning their budgets behind the collective focus to achieve maximum impact.

As one of the core functions, the national department regulates and facilitates a development agenda for the construction and property sectors, and establishes national norms and standards that enable a common development focus across the spheres of government. This intensified intergovernmental co-operation is necessary to stimulate shared growth, skills development and sustainable job creation.

After decades of declining infrastructure investment caused by the failed apartheid economy, the construction industry is entering a period of unprecedented growth. Under the impact of increasing public infrastructure investment, the industry is leading our accelerated and shared growth initiative with growth rates above 10% per annum. It creates about 80 000 jobs and is set to create several hundred thousands more jobs by 2014.

The industry emerges from a low capacity and skills base and it is challenged to double its delivery output by 2014. Public Works, therefore, has a critical role to play in overcoming a range of capacity constraints including those facing all spheres of government in the planning, procuring and maintenance of infrastructure.

Significantly, we are beginning to make headway. Notably, provincial public infrastructure spend improved last year by 29% under the impact of multifaceted interventions and partnerships promoted by the department. These interventions include the partnership between national and provincial Public Works, National Treasury, the Construction Industry Development Board and the Development Bank of Southern Africa, in support of government’s Infrastructure Delivery Improvement Programme.

A direct outcome of the Growth and Development Summit has been the co- ordination and capacity-building of provincial departments of education and public works to ensure that South Africa’s children are no longer being taught under trees. We all know that this is a very serious problem and, of course, we are really addressing it vigorously. We don’t want to see children studying under trees. We know it is really not a good thing. So, we are there; we are addressing the problem, and we are overcoming it. Encouraged by this experience and responding to the President’s call, this year we have taken the next challenge to eradicate mud schools and other inadequate structures.

The IDIP has further helped to refine the public sector procurement capacity, as indicated by procurement improvements where, in some instances, the time to award contracts by all organs of state has been reduced from as much as six months to 60 days. Of course, you shouldn’t be confused by six months and 60 days. Maybe I should change the 60 days to weeks, which will obviously appear to be too long, but we have reduced the period from six months to two months. If you say ``60 days’’ it means two months. That means we are effectively beginning to unlock the public infrastructure delivery.

The success of IDIP as a best practice has given us encouragement to approach even the work of our most prestigious clients, including our executive and the legislature, with confidence and professionalism. We have prepared master plans for the refurbishment of both the Union Buildings and the Brynterion Estate. Besides their day-to-day importance in government and the governance, the two properties are part of our heritage and, like many immovable assets of the state, they have been affected by the erratic maintenance patterns in the past. These master plans seek to implement the recommendations contained in the status quo report which, among other things, puts emphasis on the security upgrades, water reticulation and upgrades of all electrical requirements in these precincts.

Some of you know that some of these buildings are so old that the material used there cannot really be replaced with the same type of material that was used in the past. You’ll remember that in the past, especially when dealing with electricity, they were using steel pipes and when they rot it became very difficult to replace them. But now we are working on replacing some of these things in the walls with plastic, so that, at least, these things can last for another decade or so.

In Cape Town, several ministerial residences and parliamentary villages were upgraded in the past year and many more will be identified for renovations, in line with the National Infrastructure Maintenance Strategy approved by Cabinet last year, which encourages increased investment in the maintenance of our infrastructure to augment their appreciative value and enhance their looks while preserving their heritage status. To meet the accommodation needs of the expanded Cabinet, we have begun to procure additional ministerial dwellings and this project is proceeding. Some of you might have seen the new buildings that are coming up.

In anticipation of the country hosting a successful Soccer World Cup tournament in 2010, the department is undertaking major construction refurbishment projects at some key border posts, on behalf of the border control operations co-ordinating committee. Overall, 43 of 55 land border posts were placed under the programme for repairs and maintenance to ensure that occupational, health and safety requirements are met, while enabling the users’ department to deliver better services.

Some of the major construction upgrading includes the work to create a one- stop port of entry at Lebombo, towards Mozambique, as well as the relocation of the Sani Pass border post in order to take it out of the World Heritage Site where it is part of the conservation area. The work to upgrade the Golela border post will be awarded later this year and the department has already earmarked the project to promote the ethos of National Youth Service.

We believe, therefore, that this budget is a catalyst in fulfilment of our millennium obligation to 2014 and the advancement of our socioeconomic objectives, including accelerated infrastructure delivery for better communities, for shared economic growth, job creation, skills transfers, empowerment and poverty eradication. I thank you.

Mnu M A MZIZI: Sihlalo … [Ubuwelewele.] Abezwa kahle ezindlebeni, banenkinga uma belalela. Sihlalo, Ngqongqoshe nePhini lakho, oNggongqoshe bezifundazwe nomqondisi-jikelele laphaya, ngithi okumhlophe kodwa.(Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.) [Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson … [Interjections.] They do not hear very well, they encounter difficulty when listening. Chairperson, Minister and your Deputy, provincial ministers and the director-general over there, I greet you all.]

The aim of the Department of Public Works is to provide and manage the accommodation, housing, land and infrastructure needs of the national departments, and to lead and direct the implementation of the national Expanded Public Works Programme. The department also aims to optimise growth, job creation and transformation in the construction and property industries.

With South Africa’s high unemployment rate not showing any great signs of decreasing, the Department of Public Works can play an important role in the creation of employment and also provide some relief for many poor people. An important issue to keep in mind with regard to employment creation is to try and create jobs that are sustainable and which will have an impact on skills that the recipients can use, once the project is completed.

The department implemented 7 692 construction-related projects worth R10 billion as part of its function to provide accommodation and other essential infrastructure to government between 1994 and 2005. It is also stated that more than 167 000 job opportunities were created as a result of the Community-based Public Works Programme between 1994 and 2003. The facts and figures concerning the many jobs created, as well as many projects that the department has implemented are very impressive and should be lauded. They also give the impression that the department is performing its function optimally.

The impression, however, that I got during our oversight visit reveals a very different scenario. There were many complaints about the Department of Public Works and its inadequate services or lack of services that they should provide. Many of the buildings that were visited, which were under the department’s authority, were in a state of disrepair and in dire need of maintenance.

When questioned about the state of the buildings, the responses that we got all pointed to Public Works. Claims were made about lack of communication and synergy within the Department of Public Works. There also seemed to be a need for more efficient monitoring mechanisms within the department to ascertain if the various projects and maintenance contracts that have been awarded … [Interjections.]

Mr R J TAU: Chair, I just want to check if hon Mzizi is prepared to take a question, because he made a statement that I think this House needs clarification on?

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Are you prepared to take a question? Mr M A MZIZI: After my speech, not now. There is a need to ascertain whether the contracts that have been awarded are actually conducted in a proper manner that is in line with the department’s aim.

This department, through its various projects, has had a positive impact on the creation of employment, but I do believe that the concern regarding the lack of monitoring and the state of disrepair of some buildings needs to be addressed. The IFP, however, supports the budget.

Kodwa engingakusho nje lapha Ngqongqoshe ukuthi, njengomuntu engimethembayo, ngiyethemba ukuthi - njengoba ubusafika kulo Mnyango - kuyothi-ke uma kufika isikhathi sokubhukula ubhukule, ubophele isifociya okhalweni, uthi “Phezu komkhono,” bese ziyalandela zonke.

Ngikwethembile ukuthi ngeke usihlinzele ezibini futhi-ke siyamhalalisela umqondisi-jikelele uma esefikile ngoba phela besilokhu sikhala ngalokho. Mhlawumbe lezi ezinye izinto engizibalayo zenzeke ngoba ubengekho umuntu obengumqondisi lapho, kodwa uma sesithole umqondisi, zonke izinto zizoqonda. Okumhlophe kodwa. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[But what I can just say here, Minister, is that I trust you and I hope that since you are still new to this department, when the time is right, you will roll up your sleeves and work your socks off, and say, “The time is right, let us all work,” and everybody will follow suit.

I hope that you will not let us down and we welcome the arrival of the director-general because we have always been concerned about that. Maybe other things that I have mentioned happened because there was no one who was directing there, but now with the director-general in the office, all things will have direction. We wish you all the best.]

Ms L JOHNSON (KwaZulu-Natal]): Hon Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, colleagues, hon members, director-general of the department - Mr Moroka - and the senior management of the department, chairperson and chief executive officer of IDT, good afternoon.

I would like to thank the chairperson for allowing me to participate in this debate, and compliment the Minister for her speech she delivered this afternoon. I want to thank her as well for her leadership, as a new MEC in this department, and I commit myself to work with her in the department and co-operate in everything.

As the department, one of the things that we identified was to make sure that we deliver timeously and in this financial year we are committed to accelerated and timeous service delivery. We are aware that we cannot do that alone, but we will achieve it in consultation with client departments. And we also want to maintain a healthy relationship with these client departments.

I am saying this, because when I got into this department, one of the problems was that there was a very poor relationship between the department and client departments. At present we are working very hard to ensure that we have that rapport with other departments.

Having said that, one of the things that we are looking at is proper planning, as we believe that proper planning is the cornerstone to efficient and timeous service delivery. We will continue to engage and work with the department to address the issue of planning to avoid an expenditure spike in the last quarter of the financial year, which has dominated infrastructure spending in the past.

Planning in year zero will ensure that during the very first month of the financial year we can realise expenditure and start immediately. We have also agreed that as we implement the Infrastructure Delivery Improvement Programme, this will also assist us in realising this service delivery on time.

As a province we have a theme that says, “Building communities through construction’’. We are saying this because we see communities as our partners. As we build the infrastructure we also want to build a sense of ownership and a sense of pride as a result of which the communities will look after and protect the facilities from vandalism and destruction. As we engage them, we believe that the communities will begin to own those facilities and regard them as theirs and not see them as government facilities.

When we were going around doing road shows in the province to listen to our communities, in particular contractors who are our partners, and to share information with our contractors, one of the issues that came out very strongly was that the majority of black contractors were at the bottom of the pyramid.

According to CIDB, 5 266 contractors are registered with CIDB in the province of KwaZulu-Natal. And out of that, 4 119 are at Grade 1, which then means that they can only do work up to the value of R200 000. The question then remains: Who gets the work worth millions? As a province and department, we need to respond to that. What can we do to begin to bridge the gap between Grade 1 and Grade 7 and 9?

We then came up with a programme which aims at developing our emerging contractors. And I must say that we were also inspired by other provinces that already have started the development programme for their contractors. One of those provinces is Mpumalanga. We were there when they launched the Sakhabakhi programme.

We also saw it fit to come up with a similar programme, an emerging contractors development programme which will target the contractors between Grade 1 and Grade 5, capacitating them with management and technical skills, ensuring and providing mentorship on site and also ensuring that they begin to participate in bigger infrastructural projects.

Through such initiatives we hope to see the upgrading of these contractors to other levels, delivery of quality services on time as well as a reduction in the number of cancellations of contracts that we have seen in the past. We believe that these cancellations of contracts are attributed to our contractors not having enough skills and capacity.

The other issue that was raised in our road shows was access to the CIDB for contractors to register as well as the turnaround time from the CIDB. I am pleased to report that, in partnership with the CIDB, the department has established a CIDB outreach centre in Durban. And this will be operational by the middle of June 2007. This structure is almost complete and the staff is expected to start soon.

This will ensure that contractors in KwaZulu-Natal do not have to go to Pretoria to receive CIDB services and it will promote access to CIDB services. We are also looking at rolling out these services to other areas in our province, in particular the rural areas. And I must also indicate that the contractors are highly appreciative of the CIDB offices in the province. However, as I have said earlier on, we are looking forward to ensuring that we also roll it out to the rural areas of KwaZulu-Natal.

On the issue of the National Youth Service, we have also targeted 600 youths to participate in this programme – those who are interested in the built environment. At this stage, our business plan has been finalised. We are at the stage of putting out an advertisement to attract the youth from the entire province who are interested in the built environment. It is anticipated that the project will get off the ground by July 2007.

Regarding the EPWP, we are also participating fully in this programme because we believe it is aimed at reducing poverty and also job creation. We are co-operating and working very closely with the co-ordinating department of the EPWP in the province, which is the Department of Transport.

As mentioned earlier on by the Minister, we are proud of the new project initiative through which we exchange food vouchers for garbage. When this project was initiated it was felt that it was important that we shouldn’t go out and give money, cash, because of the possibility that money could be misused. Rather, you need to be sure that you give the poor people who need food on the table food vouchers, hence they would be able to go and buy food.

But also, the Department of Agriculture had to come on board so that vegetables that are given to these people through the programme can also be grown by local people and then be bought from the local people. We see this as a very good partnership between ourselves and local government. At this stage we are working very closely with the local municipality of Hibiscus and we hope that this will also be rolled out to other municipalities.

As a department, we have our own EPWP within the department. In 2006-07 the target was to create 13 000 jobs through EPWP projects, but that was extended to 16 000 jobs. Thank you. [Time expired.]

Mr M RADEBE (Gauteng): Madam Deputy Chairperson, I think you are aware that my MEC is busy dealing with challenges on the monorail; that is why I am standing here on his behalf. Hon Deputy Minister, chairpersons and the chief executive officer of our public entities, director-general, senior officials, stakeholders present, ladies and gentlemen, Public Works in Gauteng plays a major role in ensuring that we contribute significantly to the national goals of halving unemployment and poverty by 2014.

At the opening of the first session of the third legislature, following the 2004 provincial elections, the Gauteng government made a commitment that it would work with all the stakeholders to respond adequately to the challenges of unemployment, poverty and underdevelopment. A portion of these are the permanent job opportunities created through the Expanded Public Works Programme, EPWP, learnerships and the targets set for the employment of youth, women and people with disabilities.

These programmes have managed to create an opportunity for people to gain skills and provide dignity that comes with earning an income. However, these programmes can and must be elevated upwards quite significantly, given the fact that a large majority of the unemployed is the youth.

We need to work hard to ensure that we provide opportunities to young people to undertake service delivery through the Community-based Public Works Programme, which is part of the National Youth Service Programme. The Gauteng department of public transport, roads and works’ commitment to consistently improve the lives of the province’s young people, including economic empowerment, remains unwavering.

I am pleased to announce that in the coming financial year we will ensure that youth benefit from government contracts, EPWP employment opportunities and training programmes. I just want to add there, regarding all our programmes in the province, we are mainstreaming public works in terms of the Gautrain, and public works is part of the component of the R23 billion which was spent on building the stadium. Public works is part of that programme, in terms of the R20 billion which is going to be spent over five years as part of the Gauteng freeway improvement plan. The EPWP will be mainstreamed as part of that programme.

Through the Expanded Public Works Programme we have been able to give about 14 991 people a sense of pride that comes with earning an income. In the near future we will provide opportunities for 20 000 people, of whom 40% will be women, 30% youth and 2% will be people with disabilities. While we are conscious of the challenges ahead, we are proud of the progress we have made thus far.

In partnership with our people, we will accelerate the implementation of all strategies to enable us to contribute to the national goal of halving unemployment and poverty by 2014. In the previous financial year, through Public Works, we managed to complete phase one of the refurbishment of the George Thabe Stadium, Sinaba Stadium and H M Pitje Stadium.

We plan to complete phase two of Sinaba Stadium and H M Pitje Stadium by the end of the next financial year and to ensure that we comply with all the Fifa standards, so that they will be available for use as practice venues for the 2010 World Cup tournament. Indeed, we are worried that in some of the provinces the EPWP is not mainstreamed as far as building the stadiums is concerned and so on.

In preparation for the successful hosting of the 2010 Fifa World Cup in our province, we are working with municipalities to develop fan parks where members of the public will be able to view matches. In July 2007, the concept of fan parks will be piloted when the Mary Fitzgerald Square in Newtown will be turned into a fan park for the Telkom Challenge matches.

We are however still faced with many challenges that we need to engage in as Public Works. We need to keep finding ways of enhancing our public works and private sector partnerships to further do away with infrastructure blockages, to create capacity and skills and to promote the small and medium enterprises business sector, broad-based economic empowerment, job creation and the role of women in all our programmes for the delivery and management of public infrastructure.

Gauteng is not exempted from frustrations related to the shortage of construction material that our country is currently experiencing. The delivery challenges include capacity challenges which are affecting the public and private sectors. I attribute this to the major contraction processes that are taking place around the country in preparation for the 2010 World Cup. The role of Public Works is therefore critical in overcoming a range of potential capacity constraints, including the planning, procuring and maintenance of infrastructure.

When launching the Public Service Week in Gauteng last year, MEC Jacobs said that the challenge the provincial government faced as it looked back at the past 12 years of freedom and democracy was to improve the quality of life of all people and to expedite the process to ensure that the full realisation of their rights, as enshrined in the Constitution, takes place in the shortest period of time.

Ladies and gentlemen, let us honour the commitment made by the late Minister of Public Works, hon Stella Sigcau - the commitment to improve service delivery and good co-operative governance through a concerted effort to drive the implementation of Batho Pele. The Gauteng government is co-operating with the national department in terms of establishing the asset register for government. This is a huge project and not only involves identifying and counting buildings, but also assessing the state of the buildings and ensuring that those buildings are registered properly. I therefore would like to thank the hon Minister, Mrs Thoko Didiza, and congratulate her on her Budget Vote speech.

Mr N HENDRICKSE: Deputy Chair, hon Minister, Deputy Minister, all protocol observed, the public works programme must be seen as a tool which the government will be able to use to arrest unemployment. Germany and the United States put their people to work during the dark years of depression of the 1930s. When a man is unable to provide for his family, serious family feuds ensue and children lose respect for the parents. When unemployment is so widespread as it is now in certain communities, a sense of no hope and an ethic of survival of the fittest pervade, hence it becomes one of the reasons for the high crime rate.

We must ensure that the Expanded Public Works Programme is labour intensive. Road building, especially, can accommodate thousands of workers. The department needs a hands-on troubleshooter who will move through the provinces to monitor progress.

Tendering processes have improved across the country and this is a welcome step, seen against the background that in certain instances the same contractors were seen to be getting the contracts. Property repairs must be the domain of the small contractors. I do take your point, hon Deputy Minister, that some of these buildings are awkward and that small and new contractors might not know how to deal with these types of problems. Attention must be given to the turnaround time for the payment of small contractors, because this can put them out of business as they do not get paid on time.

One is encouraged to see that the Industrial Development Trust is involved in the facilitation of sustainable development of livelihoods in poverty- stricken areas. The IDT and its forerunner, the Urban Foundation, have a considerable track record in community upliftment projects. I am glad that you are using it. Public Works inspectors must be held responsible for any gross neglect as far as Public Works projects are concerned.

Skills development has been given a high priority. The army and navy, as I said before, have workshops standing idle. Hundreds of apprentices could be accommodated in the building and engineering trades. I am pleading with you, Minister, to facilitate the use of these workshops.

I think one would like to have a quarterly report on EPWP in the various provinces as this surely must be one of the most exciting exercises government has ever embarked on.

Hon Minister, we support your team and this Budget Vote. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Mr S J MOHAI (Free State): Deputy Chairperson of the NCOP, Minister of Public Works, hon Thoko Didiza, hon Deputy Minister, colleagues from other provinces and hon members of the House, in 1994, as we were moving towards and past the April breakthrough, our message, which we also articulated in our Reconstruction and Development Programme, was: A better life for all. Our battle cry as we began this second decade of freedom in 2004 was fittingly: A people’s contract to create work and fight poverty.

The national theme for this year has been appropriately formulated as: Renewing our national pledge – a national partnership to build a better life for all. This theme correctly captures what should be our focus at midterm of the third term of this democratic government. In order to locate our current role as the Free State department of works, roads and transport, on the occasion of our Budget Vote we adopted a programmatic theme for this financial year, accordingly coined: Accelerated infrastructure development for building a better life for all. It is around this programmatic slogan that we would like to centre our input in today’s budget policy debate of public works.

Infrastructure development has a huge and a vitally important role in driving economic growth and development. The economic growth we are referring to should not only be measured in the accrual of huge profits to corporates, but must also correctly translate into more jobs being created, more SMMEs growing and thriving and poverty being substantially reduced. In other words, it must be a shared growth that helps build a better life for all.

The development of infrastructure must therefore achieve the goal of a better life both in the method of execution and in the outcome thereof. Since the holding of the provincial infrastructure summit in our province in November 2005, the Free State government has put more emphasis on infrastructure development as a catalyst in our endeavours for economic growth and development.

The purpose of this provincial infrastructure summit was to assess the state of infrastructure in the province, and accordingly formulate a framework for infrastructure development in a comprehensive and integrated manner. This summit was about strengthening the province’s capacity and determination to deliver integrated infrastructure and to strengthen co- ordination among spheres of government.

Our department baseline has been increasing since the summit resolved to give more priority to the infrastructure. It has increased from R840 million in the 2005-06 financial year and R1,6 billion in 2006-07 to R1,589 billion in this financial year. Given the huge infrastructural backlog in the province, we have also overspent by R349 million during the past financial year. The bulk of this money, R306 million, was on infrastructure projects covering both public works and roads.

We have already started to further strengthen our infrastructure delivery capacity. Our main preoccupation focuses on accelerating the delivery of integrated infrastructure for economic and social development. To this end, in the previous financial year we have executed education and health capital projects within the set timeframes and utilised all their budgets.

In surging forward with this mandate we are ensuring that there is quality expenditure of all allocated budgets and always strive for maximum impact, in line with our economic and social goals of reducing poverty and unemployment. We are increasing our efforts with regard to direct investment and these include delivering infrastructure in a manner that steers labour-enhanced construction methods, small contractor development, skills training and stimulating local economic development.

Our provincial executive council recently approved a contractor development strategy aimed at introducing a number of interventions for developing small and emerging contractors. This strategy intends, as envisaged in the broad-based black economic empowerment strategy, to redress the intentional and systemic exclusion of the historically disadvantaged people from participating in the economic mainstream.

The strategy seeks to create a constructive platform for the effective transformation of the construction industry. It seeks to bring about an enabling environment for small contractors with regard to procurement opportunities, as well as facilitating technical, management and financial support. The success of the strategy will be measured by its ability to create a pool of contractors that is highly skilled and able to compete in the construction market.

This strategy will target black people, the youth, women and people with disabilities and will focus on the geographic spread. The targeting strategies will include set-asides for lower grades, prime contracting and joint ventures. We have already started co-ordinating with the Construction Industry Development Board, CIDB. This is helping bring the CIDB closer to contractors, thereby dispelling the perception that the CIDB is a constraining factor to contractor development.

The Expanded Public Works Programme remains the mainstay of our poverty alleviation and short-term job creation interventions in as far as our investment in infrastructure development is concerned. Over the previous years, since we launched the EPWP in September 2004, the programme has achieved a lot in terms of job creation, contractor development and training opportunities.

The highlight, however, was when our Makwane roads construction project, in Qwaqwa in the eastern Free State, won an award as the best project in the Kamoso awards, this past February 2007. It is equally pleasing to note that in this financial year, two roads construction projects collectively amounting to R52 million have been set aside for further development of the learner contractors of Makwane as an exit mechanism. These projects are still in the same area of Qwaqwa, which is a presidential nodal point.

Again, in order to take forward the winning model of the Makwane access road, we will be replicating it in our five districts. We will also implement other measures aimed at scaling up or maximising the impact of EPWP and will give more prominence to other factors in this regard.

The property portfolio of government is an important tool at our disposal for economic growth and development. In this regard, we will continue to increase the black economic empowerment threshold in terms of disposal and leasing out of our properties. We will also use property to stimulate local development.

The successful national launch of the National Youth Service in the built environment that was hosted in our province in Botshabelo on 14 April, was indeed a watershed event. The National Youth Service in the building and maintenance sector is going to go a long way in addressing the lot of our youth. The needs of our youth are urgent and immense, as former President Mandela once quipped.

The National Youth Service is about involving young people in community service programmes so that they can acquire skills that will enhance their employability. In this regard, as the province, we have already completed the recruitment for the first phase of our National Youth Service. Work is under way to finalise a report that will clearly identify opportunities for NYS, particularly in the maintenance of our buildings and roads.

In conclusion, until unemployment, poverty and underdevelopment are eradicated from the surface of our beautiful country, our tireless development work as a democratic government working with other social partners must persist. Thus, infrastructure development has an important role to play in building a better life for all. Under the able political stewardship of Minister Didiza, we are confident that we will make a major contribution in improving the livings conditions of our people. The Free State province endorses the Budget Vote. [Applause.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Ms M N Oliphant): Deputy Chair, hon Minister and Deputy Minister, hon MECs, hon members and comrades, I greet you. Hon Minister, in your 2007 departmental strategic plan you indicated that, as the department, you intend to ensure economic growth and development through transformation and regulation of the construction and property industries. You also mentioned that you want to maintain sound relations with parliamentary structures and other spheres of government. As this House, and particularly as a delegate from KwaZulu-Natal, we welcome the idea. Let me congratulate the hon Minister and the department for being able to analyse the situation of the department, as the leader of the Expanded Public Works Programme and also as the asset manager for and on behalf of government. But before I proceed, I just want to assist hon Mzizi. It is unfortunate for him that …

… wafika sekuyophela ukwethulwa Kwesabiwomali sezimali zoMnyango. Kodwa maqondana nale nto ayishilo lapha, yena wawubuza umbuzo mayelana nezinkantolo ezimbili. Umqondisi woMnyango Wezemsebenzi Yomphakathi wamphendula ngokuthi inkinga abahlangabezana nayo ukuthi iMinyango iye ifike ibanikeze umsebenzi kodwa imali ingabanikezi, ize ibanikeze sekuzophela unyaka wesabiwomali. Okunye engifuna ukukuqondisa kubaba uMzizi ukuthi, njengeKomidi Lezemisebenzi Yomphakathi, asikaze sivakashele izifunda ukuya kobheka izakhiwo zikahulumeni ngenxa yokuthi uMnyango ubungakabi nalo uhla okubhalwe kulo izimpahla ezikhona. Kodwa-ke ngicabanga ukuthi njengoba sebeqalile ukuba nalolu hla lwezimpahla sesizokwazi ukubona ukuthi yiziphi izakhiwo esifuna ukuzivakashela.

Ngifisa-ke futhi ukuthi ngisize umhlonishwa uHendrickse ngokumkhumbuza ukuthi, ngesikhathi uMnyango wethula umbiko savumelana nawo uMnyango ukuthi uzosinika umbiko maqondana ne-Expanded Public Works Programme. Kwaba ukuthi kufuneka sivumelane ngosuku abazokuza ngalo bazosibikela. Siyocela-ke ukuthi usihlalo wekomidi alimeme ilungu ukuthi libe yingxenye yalokho kwethulwa kombiko, ngoba linogqozi lokuthi nalo liwuthole umbiko. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[… he arrived at the end of Budget Vote for the department. But concerning what he says here, yes, he did ask the question regarding the two court buildings. The Director-General of the Department of Public Works replied by saying that the problem that they come across is that the departments give them work to do and give them no money to start work, and then later on towards the end of the financial year they start giving them the money.

The other thing that I want to correct for hon Mzizi is that, as the Select Committee on Public Services, we never visited provinces to inspect government buildings because the department did not have the register for assets that it owns. But I think that as the department has now drawn up a register for all its assets, we will be able to choose the buildings we want to visit.

I would like to help hon Hendrickse by reminding him that when the department was presenting its report, we agreed with the department that it would give us the report concerning the Expanded Public Works Programme. We had to agree on a date on which they were going to come and report to us. We request the chairperson of the committee to invite the hon member to be part of the report presentation, because the hon member is also enthusiastic about getting the report.]

Hon Minister, you further indicated that you will build the capacity in the industry through means such as learnerships, mentorship and other forms of skills and contractor development programmes. Yes, we have witnessed some of these programmes during our programme of Taking Parliament to the People.

ENyakatho Kapa, endaweni yaseGamagara, sibonile uhlelo lwe-Expanded Public Works Programme lusebenza ngempumelelo. Uma ubuka umgwaqo owakhiwe khona, ungathi wakhiwe ngongcweti abanezimendlela zobunjiniyela. Lokhu-ke, Ngqongqoshe, kukhombisa ukuthi uma abantu bezimisele ngomsebenzi wabo bayaphumelela ngoba basuke benothando lokuwenza lowo msebenzi. Thina-ke KwaZulu-Natali sithi: Lapho indlela ikhona nothando lukhona.

Sibonile futhi ukusebenza kohlelo ngenkathi sivakashele KwaZulu-Natali, KwaDlangezwa, lapho kade kwakhiwa khona ibhulohwe; kanye naseMhlathuze, endaweni yaKwaMadlebe, lapho kwakufakwa khona amapayipi amanzi. Ngiyafisa futhi ukusho ukuthi, kwezinye izindawo lapho kulungiswa khona imigwaqo, inkinga-ke ekhona Ngqongqoshe ukuthi uthola abanye sebelala ngaphansi kwezihlahla ekuseni. Ngiyethemba ukuthi uMnyango uzokwenza uhlelo lokulandelela ukuthi abantu bayasebenza, hhayi ukuthi bonke balale nje. Siyazi ukuthi phela akubona bonke abenza lokho kodwa-ke kuthiwa zifa ngamvunye.

Sibuye futhi sabona umsebenzi owenziweyo eGauteng, endaweni yaseBoipatong, lapho kade kuvuselelwa isikole iPhuthula Primary School, kwakhiwa izinkundla zokudlala ibhola lezinyawo kanye nenkundla yebhola lomphebezo. Umholi walolu hlelo sathola ukuthi ungumsebenzi woMnyango wesifunda. Into eyasimangaza-ke nokho ukuthi inkontileka yabe isiyinikwe yonke imali yayo kodwa umsebenzi ungaphelile. IPhini likaNgqongqoshe sasihamba nalo ngenkathi silapho. Enkundleni yebhola kwakunemigodi enamanzi kodwa kube kunezingane ezidlalela khona.

Ngiyafisa ukusho ukuthi kufanele uMnyango ulandelele ukubheka ukuthi ngabe imali ekhishelwe ukwenza umsebenzi isebenza ngakho yini. Futhi inkontileka mayingagidlabezwa ngemali yonke ingakawuqedi umsebenzi. Ngishilo-ke Ngqongqoshe ngathi zifa ngamvunye.

Siyafisa-ke ukuthi sibheke futhi ukuthi ngabe ukunikezwa kopeni kubantu laba abasuke beyingxenye yalolo hlelo kuhamba ngokomgomo yini, ngoba besithola ukuthi ukunikezwa kwabo imali akufani, akulingani.

Ngaphansi kohlelo lokusebenzisana neminye imikhakha kahulumeni, singajabula uma singagxila ikakhulukazi kohulumeni basemakhaya. Ngisho lokhu ngoba basakhalaza ngokuthi amakhono abanawo. Ngiyafisa futhi ukuthi sibhekelele nanokusebenzisana kweMinyango, ikakhulukazi owezeMfundo ekwakhiweni kwezikole kanye nowezeMpilo ekwakhiweni kwezibhedlela nemitholampilo.

Ngithanda ukuncoma, Ngqongqoshe, ukuthi lolu hlelo lokwakhiwa kwemigwaqo olwenziwa eNyakatho Kapa lwenabele nakwezinye izifundazwe nezifunda.

Sisakhuluma ngamakhono, ngiyethemba uMnyango unayo indlela yokusiza labo abasuke sebeqeqeshekile ukuthi babhalise izinkontileka zabo. Futhi kungakuhle ukuthi uMnyango uphoqelele osonkontileka abakhulu ukuba basebenze nalaba abasafufusa, ikakhulukazi uma uMnyango ukhipha amathenda, ukuze bakwazi ukuthola isipiliyoni ngelinye ilanga nabo bakwazi ukuzimela.

Njengoba uMnyango ungumbheki wezimpahla zikahulumeni, besicela ukuthi ubhekelele abantu abahlwempu nabadla imbuya ngothi, ikakhulukazi emhlabeni kahulumeni, ukuba nabo kebebolekwe okwesikhashana ukuze balime futhi babuye bakwazi ukuthola openyana, hhayi ukuthi balimele okuya esiswini kuphela, Ngqongqoshe.

Bengingajabula ukuthi uNgqongqoshe noMnyango wakhe bebengalandelela umhlaba ongaphansi kukahulumeni wendawo yaseNtambanana. Ngiyethemba ukuthi njengoba uNgqongqoshe eke waba umphathi wezemihlaba uyalwazi lolu daba.

Okunye engifuna ukukusho ukuthi kunezikhalazo Ngqongqoshe ngaphansi kohlelo lokubhaliswa eMnyangweni wakho maqondana nebhodi yezokwakha ebizwa nge- Construction Industry Development Board. Kuthatha isikhathi eside abantu baze baphunyukwe yiqatha emlonyeni, futhi kufanele bavuselele ubulungu minyaka yonke kanti nanemali ekhokhwayo uma usuvuselela yinkulu. Uma ngingenza isibonelo, uma wawuke wanikwa isilinganiso sika-5 noma ngaphezulu, kumele ukhokhe R25 000 noma ngabe ungawutholanga umsebenzi.

Ngqongqoshe ohloniphekile, uma uMnyango wakho ungaqinisa futhi uqhubekele phambili nohlelo lokuqeqesha abantu ngaphansi kohlelo lwe-EPWP, angingabazi ukuthi iphupho loMnyango wakho lokulwa nobubha nokwakha amathuba omsebenzi liyofezeka.

SinguKhongolose, siyasixhasa isabiwomali salo Mnyango ukuze nikwazi ukuqhubekela phambili. Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[In the Northern Cape, at Gamagara, we saw the Expanded Public Works Programme functioning successfully. If you look at the road that was constructed there, it’s as if it was built by highly qualified engineers. This, hon Minister, shows that if people are serious about their work, they succeed because they love doing it. We in KwaZulu-Natal normally say: Where there is a will there is a way.

We also saw the results of the programme when we visited KwaZulu-Natal, at KwaDlangezwa, where they were building a bridge and at Mhlathuze, in the area of KwaMadlebe, where they were putting in water pipes. I would also like, to say that in other areas where roads are constructed, hon Minister you find certain people taking a nap under the trees early in the morning. I hope that the department will see to it that these people do their work and don’t just sleep. We know that it is not everybody who is doing that, but when one individual has done wrong, the rest of the group to which he belongs is responsible.

We also saw the work that was done in Gauteng, at Boipatong, and Phuthula Primary School was renovated; soccer fields and tennis courts were built. We also found out that the project leader is employed by the provincial department. What amazed us, though, was that the contractor was paid the entire amount that was due to him, but the work remained unfinished. We were accompanied by the Deputy Minister when we went there. In the soccer field there were holes filled with water while there were children playing there.

I wish to say that the department needs to monitor the use of money so as to make sure that the money allocated for work is spent properly. Contractors should not be fully paid while the job is not yet finished. Hon Minister, I earlier on said that when one individual has done wrong, the rest of the group to which he belongs is responsible.

We also wish it could be checked if the paying of stipends to the people who are part of these projects is done accordingly, because we found that the stipends that these people get are not the same and therefore not equal.

Under the intergovernmental relations, I would be happy if we can concentrate on the local government sphere. I am mentioning this because this tier still laments the shortage of skills. I would also like us to look at the interdepartmental relations, particularly between the Department of Education in building schools and the Department of Health in building hospitals and clinics.

I wish to recommend, hon Minister, that this programme of building roads in the Northern Cape should be expanded to other provinces. Whilst still talking about skills, I hope that the department has a plan to help those who received training in registering their contractors. And it would be an excellent thing if the department can compel the huge contractors to work with the smaller contractors particularly when the department is awarding tenders. This can help small contractors to gain experience and be able to work independently one day.

As the department is responsible for government asset management, I request that it caters for those who are destitute and poor and help them with a piece of government land. These people, hon Minister, would be able to farm and earn some money, and they would not be farming to feed themselves only.

I would be happy if the Minister and her department can pursue the issue of government land that is in the area of Ntambanana. I hope that since the Minister is the ex-Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs, she is familiar with this matter.

The other thing that I want to mention is that there are complaints concerning the registration in your department with regard to the Construction Industry Development Board. It takes so much long that sometimes people lose out on the contracts. These contractors have to renew their membership yearly and the renewal fee is huge. For example, if you were rated at five or above, you have to pay R25 000 even if you didn’t get a contract. Hon Minister, if your department can continue with the programme of training people under the EPWP, I have no doubt that the objective of your department of fighting poverty and creating jobs will be achieved.

As the African National Congress, we support this budget so that the department can grow from strength to strength. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Thank you, hon Oliphant. I would like to remind you, hon members, that there are service officers to assist you in the House by taking your messages back and forth. Please do not stand in the passages and have a chat.

The MINISTER OF PUBLIC WORKS: Chairperson, hon members, I would like to thank members for their participation in this debate. I must say that I may not be able to answer each and every member. I have tried to group the issues that came through the discussion and we take those as enhancing our work and improving on what we have done so far. So, we don’t take as criticism some of the issues that were raised negatively because we see that in a way of building us up to make us to be sharp at all times.

One of the issues that I want to reflect on is that which was raised by our chairperson and other members relating to capacity. As a department, in order for us to be able to undertake the relevant programmes that we have been given, particularly the Expanded Public Works Programme, I would like to remind members to look at the budget of 2007-08, that is this financial year. Part of the resources that we have been given by National Treasury is precisely for building internal capacity to be able to undertake this work. We have already advertised 48 posts, specifically for the EPWP. We have already started the interviewing process and once those posts are filled, that would give us about 80 people at national level who will do this work on a full-time basis. I am sure that will take us a step further.

I also want to address the issue that was raised about the leadership and co-ordination. Hon members will recall that last year, at the end of the July government lekgotla, the President was very clear in his statement when summing up the discussion of that lekgotla by saying that, following the discussion amongst Ministers and Deputy Ministers and directors- general, it was agreed that the role of the Department of Public Works is not just about co-ordination but also about the leadership of this programme. Therefore, I don’t think there would be any confusion about who leads.

Obviously, in KwaZulu-Natal they have decided that the co-ordination will be done through the Department of Transport, and I must say that what we have done is to actually make sure that the MEC for transport in KwaZulu- Natal is part of our Minmec and that they work together with the MEC for public works. So, even in that regard we don’t anticipate difficulties in pursuing this leadership role.

But what does that leadership role mean? In a sense, it means that somehow one must be like a Chief Whip, be able to tell others what to do and how to do it with the budgets that are in their line functions. We are able to do that because we have built relationships with a number of departments. For instance, regarding the Department of Transport, the director-general met yesterday with the Director-General of Transport to discuss about working together with us in monitoring. The R3 billion allocated for rural roads will indeed be utilised through the Expanded Public Works Programme.

Together with the Department of Transport, we have roped in National Treasury to ensure that provincial treasuries do not divert those resources for other issues other than rural roads. [Applause.] What I will do, using my leadership responsibility, is to ask the Select Committee on Public Works in this House to ensure that they help me to monitor to what extent these resources go where they are supposed to go, as they do their oversight.

There is an issue that you already raised and you said sometimes that issue is a problem: A specific province was mentioned where a municipality claimed that a project belonged to EPWP and our department said no. As part of the leadership role, in the construction industry, for instance, particularly housing and road infrastructure, everybody will tell you that construction by its very nature is actually labour-intensive. We do not argue about that; it is true. Nevertheless, with regard to the EPWP, when we conceived it, one of the conditions was training, because a road can be constructed in a year. But how do you enable - which is the issue you have also raised on exit strategy – that person to be able to be employable in future unless you empower them with skills? I think this is where we decide to separate what we can call expanded public works and what we can call just job creation.

We have been having difficulties, particularly at the municipal level, but what we have done is not to be negative. We decided to go to the municipalities, sit down with them, look at how they do their specifications for contracts, assist them on how they could apply the expanded public works principles and how they can monitor those. To this extent, we have written to district municipalities as a start towards actually paying a visit, and not just to communicate by letter or word but to go ourselves into the districts.

One of the things we did last year was to visit the district of Gert Sibande. We took with us one of their colleagues from Enkangala district, where we have worked successfully on EPWP, to share with that other district on best practice and how they have done it. One thing that has been good about Enkangala district is that they have used their own resources and tied those with their own projects, which they need to deliver in terms of the IDP. But they have applied our expanded public works principles and have trained learners in order to develop a pool of their contractors.

The other issue that you raised is the issue of skills development. Indeed, this is key in the work that we are doing in the Expanded Public Works Programme and the National Youth Service. One of the outcomes has been to train contractors and supervisors. Therefore, the 720 people we were talking about in relation to Vukuphile programme are people who can now be contractors in their own right and can be appointed. These are the people who can be employed by construction companies as supervisors.

What some of the municipalities have done in the allocation of contracts is that they made a condition for subcontracting so that those young people don’t just exit and don’t know where to go but can actually be part of the infrastructure delivery at a local level. We think that will offer us not just skills development but also an exit strategy.

As you heard in my speech, the other area we are looking at in terms of skills and development is in the property area. If one looks especially amongst black South Africans, one finds that there are very few property managers or property brokers. And we said, as part of dealing with and deracialising the property sector, this is one of the things that we are going to address. I am happy that both the SA Property Owners Association, Sapoa, and the SA Institute of Black Property Practitioners, SAIBPP, have agreed with us that we are going to form an academy where we are actually going to train these young people, not for today, but also for the future of our country.

The other important element in our Expanded Public Works Programme where we have delivered skills is in the area of community home-based care, as well as early childhood development. People have gone through that programme in which we are working together with the Department of Social Development, as well as the Department of Health. We want to ensure that we have the same standard, so that when a person is a home-based care practitioner, such a person would have gone through the same level of training. Therefore, looking at the curricula and working with those departments will help us even in creating a standard for a community home-based care worker.

Indeed, the issue of the exit strategy has been raised, but I sometimes say I am happy to deal with a challenge. This indicates that South Africans really like to tackle hard things and be able to resolve them. If hon members recall, it was not in the brief of EPWP to think about an exit strategy, but we understand the rationale and why all of us should be concerned about this matter.

If one looks at the way in which we have characterised the EPWP elements, we have the social sector, the infrastructure – which is where we get a lot of our job opportunities, the environment sector and then we have the economic sector. The economic sector is the one which offers us an opportunity to build entrepreneurs. For instance, if one looks at the Contractor Development Programme, that is where we have been working with financial institutions, especially Absa and Standard Bank so that when those young people get the tender from a municipality, which would be part of their training programme, they would get a loan from a financial institution so that they can start to implement the project. They would then learn and apply the EPWP principles while starting to build their own businesses.

Our economic sector programme of the EPWP trains these people as entrepreneurs. But also working with IDT, we are going to be working with them on the Jobs for Growth programme which deals with livelihoods because we say even those people who may not be at that level, particularly in waste management and other areas, can actually create small businesses even on recycling and other areas, and there is potential in this.

If one looks at the other issues that have been raised in relation to property management, hon Watson raised the issue about parliamentary villages. I thought he would actually say: “Minister and the department, you have tried.” I say so because, honestly and truly, all of us would agree with that. The state of those villages, particularly accommodation, was not something that any of us would have been happy about. We agreed, if you recall my presentation last year concerning this budget, that this was an interim phase while we dealt with the long-term challenge. One of the steps of the long-term challenge was to deal with the acquisition of Acacia Park so that it would be owned by the state, because otherwise we would not have built solid infrastructure where you have prefabs, when the land did not belong to us. So, that was the challenge, and we have dealt with that challenge. Secondly, there is a matter which we have to resolve, which you have raised as parliamentarians, not just in the NCOP but also in the National Assembly, regarding a possibility of relocation and identifying a place closer to town.

Those are long-term projects and I am sure you will appreciate that. But we wouldn’t have said, “Because of that long-term nature, then we won’t do anything about the condition of houses and how they are today.” I am sure you will then reverse your statement and say, “We would love to have a Department of Public Works.’’ [Interjections.]

With regards to our approach on property development management and control

• I am using those deliberately - our asset register is but the first step. Also, hon members, we must not fool ourselves. There is no way you will have a static asset register. Every year when you dispose of an asset, you will still have to adjust your asset register so that it correctly gives you the data of what you have and what you have sold.

The e-works, which has been mentioned by one of my MEC colleagues, is an IT system that we have agreed on as provinces and nationally. We have agreed that we are going to work together so that we can monitor what assets we have as the state. As a second step, we will work with municipalities so that we can have a collective view of what the state owns and what happens in those assets that we have.

We are also going to be looking at how we can update our register to ensure that we don’t have lost assets that you were talking about – hon Watson. Some of them were lost during your time, I am sorry to say. When you were redetermining homelands, you decided to take certain land which was in the former RSA to homelands through the SADT. Some of that land was never vested and so it was in-between. We are trying to deal with that mess.

What we have also said is that we want to create an opportunity where we ask community members to come forward and say, “I am staying in a state building and I am willing to give it over,” so that we can regularise it. We have said we are not going to arrest those people. We will give them a six-month period where they can come forward so that we can indeed do this regularisation of our assets.

In terms of management, with regard to some of the issues that have been raised by hon members, it means we need to engage in continuous assessment of our assets. This is where the issue of inspectors, as flagged by other members, will come in. This is where I think we can create opportunities for employment of young people to do the condition survey under a mentor, of course, so that we can know in time what needs to be done before a building collapses. We can also know when to dispose of a building; when to change its use and whether to actually give it over to another state department or provincial government or municipality for use in terms of local economic development. This is where we would also deal with issues of continuous maintenance, given the state of that building, as well as deal with maintenance of facilities and our assets.

In terms of development also, this is where we are actually working in building new infrastructure such as the border posts which my Deputy Minister mentioned as well as the prisons and other physical structures that we are supposed to deliver on behalf of government.

I know that sometimes we have been accused of not having done certain things, but we are a builder. If you build a house and you don’t give a contractor the projects in time, with all the will in the world the contractor can’t do anything. This is what we have been emphasising with departments: If you don’t plan in time and you don’t hand over the projects to us in time, you can’t expect us to actually have a miracle of giving you a school in January when you only gave us a contract in November. So the Infrastructure Delivery Improvement Programme seeks to address those issues.

We and the Treasury being the lead in this regard, we are also saying to government departments that they must shape up in order for us to deliver for them. We are also saying we need to start to rethink how we are using our assets as the state. I will leave a very controversial point: What will be wrong if the state were to be involved in the development of its assets, alone or with private sector partners, to enhance the value of those assets? If we say we are a developmental state, it’s not just about facilitating. It’s also about intervening and I think it is a matter we can discuss in the select committee some time.

On the issue of the Construction Industry Development Board, which is my last point, which was raised by Mrs Oliphant, I think it is an important structure that we had created as government in order to protect our citizens from fly-by-night contractors and to regulate this industry. I think it is a very elusive industry, as you know. Construction companies start today and they disband tomorrow. They regroup under different names and so on. You do need to have a sense of who the players are, their capacity, potential and whether indeed they can deliver what they say they can. But regarding the issues of an annual review …

… niyabona-ke, labo abenu abake baba ngonesi bayazi ukuthi, emkhandlwini wamanesi, uma umuntu engunesi osebenza ubuhlengikazi noma cha kodwa ukhokha minyaka yonke ukuze angalahlekelwa ilayisense yakhe yobuhlengikazi. [… and those of you who were nurses before, know that in the nursing councils, if someone is a nurse, she is bound to pay a membership fee every year, whether she is practising as a nurse or not, so as not to lose her nursing licence.]

It is the same in the construction sector, because we actually would want to know who is in the construction industry. We don’t want to keep you on our register if you are no longer interested in being in the construction industry. Maybe we can look at the issue of the amount. We can debate that, but I think the reality is that it is something, in my view, that we will have to do so that we can understand, on a year-to-year basis, who our construction companies are that are still there in the industry. This would enable us not to tell people we have 30 000 contractors when, actually, in that particular year we have only five. From a planning point of view, that is a difficulty that we have seen ourselves.

With 2010 coming and the construction boom in the retail sector and residential sector, there are very few major contractors who have the capacity to do some of the work. Some of the contractors actually have refused some of the contracts because they said they can’t cope. So it’s important also from the planning point of view to update this register.

Lastly, although it’s difficult, I think we must agree and you must help me, because all of us can see this opportunity, everybody thinks they can wake up tomorrow and be a contractor. Regarding our Grade 1, we have decided that we are going to do away with it. We will take Grade 1 as an expression of interest, meaning that you aspire to be a builder and you are not one. The majority of people who are in Grade 1 are people who have not even handled a brick, let alone ever built a house. They don’t even have the people who can do it if they want to be entrepreneurs.

I think we need to be fair to ourselves. You can’t therefore give a person who is at Grade 1 a contract of R5 million when you have never seen any evidence that he or she can build. [Applause.] We are saying to you: Help me help CIDB. We don’t want to be negative. We will be going back to those in Grade 1. We will say to them, “We are willing to put you on our Sakhabakhi programme so that if indeed you are interested, we will put you on our National Contractor Development Programme and build you as a contractor that we can be proud of, like the Vukuphile contractors that we have developed.”

I am sure that if we can do that, we will lessen the complaints. The MEC from the Free State knows that there have been a lot of complaints. We then asked, “Where are the complainants; what are they complaining about?” Once you ask them what they are complaining about, you just don’t get them because they know that actually they have only expressed an interest, but they don’t really have the capacity.

Thank you very much for your support on this debate. [Applause.] Debate concluded.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Thank you, hon members. Thank you, hon Minister and Deputy Minister for your informative, detailed and explanatory contribution to the debate. I am sure the hon members appreciated your contribution.

Hon members, may I remind you that tomorrow morning will be a three-line whip for debate on Parliament, and that will start at 9:30. Attendance is compulsory and members must please be punctual so that by 11:00 we are done. Thank you very much.

The Council adjourned at 16:12. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Draft Bills submitted in terms of Joint Rule 159

(1) Cross-boundary Municipalities Laws Repeal and Related Matters Amendment Bill, 2007, submitted by the Minister for Provincial and Local Government. Referred to the Portfolio Committee on Provincial and Local Government and the Select Committee on Local Government and Administration.

National Council of Provinces

1. Referral to Committees of papers tabled

(1)     The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
    Social Services for consideration:

    (a)      Report of the Auditor-General on a performance audit of
         the immigration process at the Department of Home Affairs –
         February 2007 [RP 29-2007].

(2)     The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
    Education and Recreation for consideration:

    (a)      Strategic Plan for the Department of Sport and Recreation
         for 2007 to 2011.


    (b)      Strategic Plan for the Department of Education 2007 to
         2011.


(3)     The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
    Land and Environmental Affairs:

    (a)      Government Notice No 355 published in Government Gazette
         No 29814 dated 20 April 2007: Withdrawal of declaration of land
         under the authority of a resolution of the National Assembly:
         Vaalbos National Park, in terms of the National Environmental
         Management: Protected Areas Act, 2003 (Act No 57 of 2003).


    (b)      Government Notice No 394 published in Government Gazette
         No 29862 dated 4 May: Amendment to the list of Activities and
         Competent Authorities Identified in terms of section 24(2) and
         24D made in terms of the National Environmental Management Act,
         1998 (Act No 107 of 1998).


    (c)      Government Notice No 395 published in Government Gazette
         No 29862 dated 4 May: Amendment to the list of Activities and
         Competent Authorities Identified in terms of section 24(2) and
         24D made in terms of the National Environmental Management Act,
         1998 (Act No 107 of 1998).

(4)     The following papers are referred to the Select Committee on
    Land and Environmental Affairs for consideration:

    (a)      Government Notice No 392 published in Government Gazette
         No 29862 dated 4 May: National Environmental Management Second
         Amendment Bill, 2007: For further regulation of environmental
         impact assessments, environmental authorizations and incidental
         matters for comment.

    (b)      Government Notice No 393 published in Government Gazette
         No 29862 dated 4 May 2007: National Environmental Management
         Impact Assessment Regulations, 2006: For written comments.


(5)     The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
    Finance for consideration:


    (a)      Strategic Plan for the South African Revenue Service for
         2007/08 to 2009/10.

(6)     The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
    Labour and Public Enterprises for consideration and report:


    (a)      Report of the Strategic Industrial Projects for April 2002
         to March 2006.
(7)     The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
    Security and Constitutional Affairs for consideration:


    (a)      Strategic Plan for the Independent Complaints Directorate
         (ICD) for 2007 to 2010.


(8)     The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
    Finance for consideration:

    (a)      Submission of the Financial and Fiscal Commission on the
         Division of Revenue Bill for 2008-2009, tabled on 16 May 2007
         in terms of section 9(1) of the Intergovernmental Fiscal
         Relations Act, 1997 (Act No 97 of 1997).

(9)     The following paper is referred to the Select Committee on
    Local Government and Administration for consideration and report:


    (a)      Report and Financial Statements of the South African Local
         Government Association (SALGA) for 2005-2006, including the
         Report of the Auditor-General on the Financial Statements for
         2005-2006 [RP 24-2007].

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. The Speaker and the Chairperson

   (a) Report of the Auditor-General on an investigation into procurement at the Department of Justice and Constitutional Development – March 2007 [RP 38-2007].

   (b) Report of the Auditor-General on a performance audit of the import inspection services at the Department of Agriculture – March 2007 [RP 42-2007].

2. The Minister of Finance

   (a) Government Notice No R.368 published in Government Gazette No 29834 dated 26 April 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 2 (No. 2/287) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

   (b) Government Notice No R.289 published in Government Gazette No 29855 dated 4 May 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 2 (No. 2/288) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

   (c) Government Notice No R.290 published in Government Gazette No 29855 dated 4 May 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 2 (No. 2/289) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

   (d) Government Notice No R.445 published in Government Gazette No 29889 dated 11 May 2007: Imposition of Provisional Payment (PP/127) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

   (e) Government Notice No R.397 published in Government Gazette No 29858 dated 11 May 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 1 (No. 1/1/1335) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

   (f) Government Notice No R.398 published in Government Gazette No 29858 dated 11 May 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 1 (No. 1/1/1336) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

   (g) Government Notice No R.399 published in Government Gazette No 29858 dated 11 May 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 3 (No. 3/611) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

   (h) Government Notice No R.400 published in Government Gazette No 29858 dated 11 May 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 3 (No. 3/612) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

   (i) Government Notice No R.401 published in Government Gazette No 29858 dated 11 May 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 3 (No. 3/613) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

   (j) Government Notice No R.402 published in Government Gazette No 29858 dated 11 May 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 4 (No. 4/305) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

   (k) Government Notice No R.403 published in Government Gazette No 29858 dated 11 May 2007: Amendment of Schedule No. 5 (No. 5/84) in terms of the Customs and Excise Act, 1964 (Act No 91 of 1964).

3. The Minister for Justice and Constitutional Development

   (a) Report on the withholding of remuneration of Mr M F Mathe, an additional magistrate at Pinetown, in terms of section 13(4A)(b) of the Magistrates Act, 1993 (Act No 90 of 1993).

4. The Minister for Agriculture and Land Affairs

   (a) Report of the Commission on Restitution of Land Rights for 2006- 2007 [RP 90-2007].