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National Council of Provinces - 08 June 2007

FRIDAY, 8 JUNE 2007 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 09:35.

The Deputy Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 1832.

                WELCOMING OF MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Hon members, before I start, I would like to welcome the national Minister of Home Affairs to this House.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the Council I shall move, on behalf of the IFP, as follows:

That the Council – 1) notes with sadness and shock that a 63-year old man, David Matjele from Orlando East, was murdered by a man whom he was trying to help;

 2) further notes that Mr Matjele let the man into his home after
    responding to the man’s claims that he was being atttacked;

 3) realises that criminal activity is diminishing the compassion and
    kindness of many South Africans; and

 4) commends the police for the swift arrest of a suspect, and hopes
    that he is dealt with accordingly by the law.

Mr N D HENDRICKSE: Hon Chairperson, I wish to give notice that I will move on the next sitting day of the Council:

That the Council -

 1) notes that, further to a motion brought before the Council on 23
    May 2007 condemning the action of the Metro Police in removing
    street people’s possessions in the heart of winter, Ms Maria
    Visser, one of the street people, died of exposure;


 2) condemns the action of the city police and asks them to take full
    responsibility for Maria’s death; and


 3) sends its condolences to her family.

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Deputy Chairperson, owing to the incapacity of my voice, I have requested the programme Whip to read the motion on my behalf.

 RE-ENACTMENT OF TRADITIONAL HEALTH PRACTITIONERS ACT AND CHOICE ON   TERMINATION OF PREGNANCY AMENDMENT ACT IN COMPLIANCE WITH CONSTITUTIONAL
                             COURT ORDER

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chair, I move the draft resolution printed in the name of the Chief Whip of the Council on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the Council, with the concurrence of the National Assembly –

1) notes that –

        a) on 18 August 2006 the Constitutional Court declared the
           Traditional Health Practitioners Act (Act No 35 of 2004) and
           the Choice on Termination of Pregnancy Amendment Act (Act No
           38 of 2004) invalid, and that the order of invalidity is
           suspended for a period of 18 months to enable Parliament to
           re-enact these statutes in a manner that is consistent with
           the Constitution;


        b) the 18-month suspension period expires on 16 February 2008;
           and


        c) the Rules do not provide specifically for Parliament to deal
           with legislation that has been declared invalid; and

(2) resolves that -

        a) the above-mentioned statutes be re-enacted, in compliance
           with the court order;


        b) the legislation be deemed introduced in the National Council
           of Provinces, as the first House;


        c) the Acts, as they now exist,  be deemed as the text before
           Parliament, as extensive work has been done during
           Parliament’s previous consideration of the legislation; and

        d) the Select Committee on Social Services be put in charge of
           the Bills before the Council.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Thank you, hon programme Whip. As there is no speakers’ list, I shall now put the question. The question is that the motion be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all the delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ votes. Are all the delegation heads present?

In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if they so wish.

We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Ms B N DLULANE: In favour.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Free State?

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Ondersteun. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Gauteng?

Mr S SHICEKA: Siyasixhasa. [We support it.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): KwaZulu-Natal?

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Siyavuma. [We support it.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Limpopo?

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo re a thekga. [Limpopo supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Mpumalanga?

Mr B J MKHALIPHI: iMpumalanga iyavuma. [Mpumalanga supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Northern Cape?

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Northern Cape ke a rona. [Northern Cape supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): North West?

Mr Z C KOLWENI (North West): North West ke ya rona. [North West supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Western Cape? Ms J WITBOOI (Western Cape): Western Cape supports.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): All nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                     LEAVE OF ABSENCE FOR MEMBER

                         (Draft Resolution)

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, I move the draft resolution printed in the name of the Chief Whip of the Council on the Order Paper, as follows:

That the Council, notwithstanding the provisions of Rule 17(1) of the Rules of the National Council of Provinces, grants hon J O Tlhagale leave of absence from proceedings of both the Council and committees of the Council in terms of Rule 17(2) until the hon member has recovered to resume duty.

In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote, if they so wish.

Ms B N DLULANE: In favour.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Free State?

Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: In favour.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Gauteng?

Mr S SHICEKA: Siyavuma. [We support it.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): KwaZulu-Natal?

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Siyavuma. [We support it.] The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Limpopo?

Ms H F MATLANYANE: In favour.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Mpumalanga?

Mr B J MKHALIPI: iMpumalanga iyavuma. [Mpumalanga supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Northern Cape?

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Siyavuma. [We support it.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): North West?

Mr Z C KOLWENI: Key a rona. [Supports.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Western Cape?

Ms J WITBOOI: In favour.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): All nine provinces have voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

Motion agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL

                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 4 - Home Affairs:

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Before I call upon the Minister, I would like to announce that the hon Deputy Minister will not be participating in the Budget Vote. He is on sick leave. I now call upon the hon Minister Mapisa-Nqakula - Minister of Home Affairs - to open the debate.

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Deputy Chairperson, hon members of the NCOP, firstly, I would like to thank the select committee … But I don’t see the Chair. [Interjections.] Thanks. I would like to thank the select committee for the work they have been doing with us, and also for the unwavering support of the chairperson, Ms Masilo.

Hon members, those of you who were around the parliamentary complex yesterday might have seen the Home Affairs mobile units parked on the grounds. We brought them here to demonstrate the capacity we have been building since the Human Sciences Research Council report two years ago on accessibility to the services of Home Affairs. With their ability to connect via satellite to our mainframe computers, and thereby offer our services even in the remotest parts of the country, the mobile units are going a long way towards responding to the needs identified in the HSRC report.

We currently have 109 mobile units operating in all nine provinces. So, I felt it fitting that I should begin my budget address to this House by mentioning them. We very deliberately did not keep the mobile units here today, because they are needed out in the Western Cape, and it would be typical for them to move on after a day like yesterday when they generated a lot of traffic. Members may be interested to know that one of the units working in the parliamentary precinct yesterday covers an area incorporating Swellendam, Hermanus and Bredasdorp.

We heard from the driver who, by the way, is also a fully qualified Home Affairs official able to register births and accept applications for IDs and passports, that the services that the vehicles bring to the community are always in demand and appreciated. That tells us that the mobile units are going a long way towards raising awareness and meeting the demands for accessible services identified by the HSRC.

On the other hand, as we build the fleet beyond 109 units deployed nationally at the moment, we are aware of some of the challenges it faces. A thorough analysis of the strengths and weaknesses of the mobile unit system in responding adequately to accessibility and its questions will be part of the overall re-engineering process to be undertaken within the framework of the turnaround action team’s work I will come to in a moment.

I think it is proper that I should give you a breakdown of these mobile units per province: Eastern Cape - 16, KwaZulu-Natal - 16, Limpopo - 17, North West - 10, Northern Cape - 10, Mpumalanga - 10, Western Cape - 10, Free State - 10 and Gauteng - 10. Hon members will remember that I did say before that the challenge to all of us as public representatives is to be the eyes and ears, amongst others, of how officials utilise this particular service.

Home Affairs is serious about transforming into government’s best delivery arm. That is a very ambitious goal and we are all aware of that. It will not be achieved overnight. At least we are sure of that much. A year ago we gave an undertaking during our Budget Vote to get to the bottom of the problems which are confronting us. Today we are able to say that we are well on the way to implementing the recommendations we got from the intervention task team report, which did a thorough investigation of the department.

Much of what I have to say in my budget speech today will be centred on the measures we are taking in pursuit of the President’s announcement in his state of the nation address, and I quote: “We will bring the operations of the Department of Home Affairs to full capacity.” We are aware that we have a long and steep road ahead of us before we are able to say that we are indeed the best delivery arm of government in South Africa, but we are determined to go that route because we believe that the people of South Africa have a right to expect reliable, consistent and efficient service from this department; delivered with integrity and as promised.

Home Affairs is the department tasked with the responsibility to assist our people with the right documentation from the first day to the last. On behalf of the people of South Africa, we are the custodians of citizenship, of the rights to visit, invest, work and take up permanent residence in this country. Of course, the proper administration of refugee affairs is important in empowering those who are less fortunate than ourselves, because they have been victims of political and ethnic intolerance elsewhere.

At the same time, we must remember that economic migration is an international phenomenon confronting every region of the globe. There is no country in the world which does not face an influx from its neighbours, if it is economically more stable and successful. Let us remember, for instance, that Gauteng alone produces about 9% of the GDP of the whole of Africa. Therefore, it is logical that our economy would be a magnet for economic migrants from the region.

In this context, it is important not to forget that the economies of the region are networked, with families and communities in neighbouring states relying on remittances from migrants working in South Africa. The other side of the coin, of course, is that South Africa has long relied on those workers to help build our economy, particularly in the area of mining. That is not to say that, of course, we should invite or even tolerate a free-for- all situation.

However, we are able to report that, since our last budget debate, we have been able to clear a backlog of 13 000 applications for permanent residence. Also, we recently announced 35 000 work permits for foreigners with scarce and critical skills. I think I need to pause here and briefly explain about the importance of all of us taking the responsibility of publishing, pronouncing and educating people about the importance of these quota lists. The advantage here is that a migrant may apply for a work permit without necessarily having secured a job in the country. That’s the difference between that and many other permits which we provide to people.

When a migrant applies for a work permit, we provide it, but the person must be subjected to the process of verification of the qualifications. However, that person can actually secure this permit without necessarily being guaranteed a job in the country. The important part for all of us as public representatives is to go out and educate the public about the difference between a general work permit and a quota permit which would have been secured under this category of persons.

We have not just left it at that announcement, because last year showed that we need to publicise these permits around the world. We have begun the process of mobilising our overseas missions, our Home Affairs consular services, ambassadors, and our high commissioners in an effort to find the maths and science teachers, the aerospace specialists and many others required by our economy.

On my previous visit to Brussels recently, I gathered our ambassadors from the region to enlist their support in popularising the quota work permits and we provided embassies with a media kit to assist them further. We are ready to provide hon members with media kits so that people are able to popularise these quota lists. I will use other overseas trips in a similar way in other regions.

Even though we have processed almost 37 000 refugee applications, the backlog project has not gone as well as we would have wanted it to, so we continue to work on the 75 000 applications. This project will be part of the work of the turnaround action team, which I will discuss later.

I felt that we should mention this, specifically in the NCOP, because I am aware that it is frequently the provinces that are confronted with the realities of xenophobia and sometimes violence towards foreigners seeking shelter with us. These are not easy matters, but I appeal to the provinces to join with us in taking the lead in explaining to our people time and again that our Constitution affords asylum to genuine victims of ethnic and political persecution. More importantly, it is a central core of the humane and just society we want to build. It is central to our own humanity and we should recognise and accept that these are people who need help and support, just as many of those who fought for our own freedom were able to rely on the support and help of others around the world.

We are aware, not only of the fact that we are the custodians of all these vital areas from citizenship to refugee affairs, but that this makes us the custodians of important aspects of South Africa’s sovereignty and economic and physical security. A false identity document or a corruptly obtained residence permit can be a gateway to crime - whether it is fraud or crime of a more sinister nature. Our banks and our businesses who sell on credit have a right to expect the identity document system to assist them in preventing crime; so do our security services.

For those who missed the introduction of our new director-general, I would like to take the opportunity to introduce him. He is sitting over there as part of the delegation. His name is Mr Mavuso Msimang. It was possible to recruit a person of his calibre, standing, experience and leadership capabilities. He has, of course, been referred to as “Mr Fix-it”. But, of course, in order for him to fix the Department of Home Affairs, he will need the support of hon members and he will also need the critical support of the entire staff of the Department of Home Affairs.

We have agreed with him that he must be given the resources and the necessary time and space to do the job. That means financial and human resources and, perhaps most important of all, resources like the flexibility to do what must be done in taking the department from what it is today to what it needs to be.

Two weeks ago, we were able to announce the deployment of a turnaround action team. This deployment is the most significant step so far in our strategy to transform and improve the department’s ability to serve the people and contribute to economic growth. It includes public and private sector experts from a number of fields, including information technology, finance, business process re-engineering and communications.

It is a team which should be directed from the office of the director- general and it has been tasked with – alongside the director-general and in close co-operation with him - creating a radically more efficient customer and business-friendly Department of Home Affairs. In a nutshell, we are in the process of creating the new Home Affairs.

Our budget includes a rise of 18,36% this financial year, followed by a further 20,3% increase next year, and 3,2% more for the following year. These allocations mean that we will have resources that are needed to do the job which we must do for our country. This is good news, because of duties associated with securing the Soccer World Cup in 2010. More importantly, it is good news because of the resources it provides us with for the long term in making Home Affairs what it should be and what it must be.

We are presenting a budget for things we believe are realistic, achievable and necessary. This is why I am confident today when I refer to the new Home Affairs, which has this budget cycle as a starting point. In other words, we are building systems - we are re-engineering them and improving them; and we are getting the institution fit for the future. We are saying to our staff: “Of course, you can join in and become part of the new department.”

So, I am announcing today the turnaround, the transformation or change. I am not announcing that it is complete, I am saying, starting with this budget and together with Parliament, together with the 7 000 staff in the department, we are building a new department in the interests of our country.

The new department is about setting realistic delivery targets and meeting them consistently and efficiently. It is about new technology synchronised with existing infrastructure to enhance our ability to oversee, direct and, where necessary, speed up our delivery process. It is about a new level of co-operation with the country’s law-enforcement agencies in driving corruption out of our department.

It is, for example, about the new digital vision of the 29 million fingerprints we keep, which we have completed and which now allow us to ensure that people trying to obtain a second identity document number to use for criminal purposes will consistently and reliably be found out. It is about the new passport system which will allow us to cut delivery times whilst we enhance the security and the international acceptance of the documents at the same time.

But, perhaps, most importantly, the new Home Affairs is about creating and sustaining new attitudes and a new will to serve the people among the staff members of the department. It is about a new empowering approach to management, which says that individuals must take daily responsibility for the quality of their work and their output levels. This means saying to every staff member that this is a new department in the making, with new attitudes, a new vigour and a new will to deliver on its mandate.

The other side of the coin - and I say so clearly as we have said to staff members - is: Of course, those who choose not to be full and committed participants in this department are welcome to seek their future elsewhere, if they so wish. This department has no place for corrupt, lazy or inefficient loafers. It will be a home for industrious and energetic officials for whom Batho Pele is much more than just a slogan; a home to those who love our country and want to contribute their professionalism to making it work properly.

When we mention setting realistic targets and meeting them, we are saying the most important thing that we can offer our clients is reliability. It is more important to me to say to an identity document applicant that he or she can collect the document in four weeks’ time and for them to find the document ready and waiting in four weeks than to say you can have it in two weeks, but it is not there when you come to collect it. It is more important to say to residents that, for example, a mobile unit will be there once every three months to register births and to accept applications for documents and permits than to promise visits once a month, only to find that people walk all the way to the destination, but the vehicle does not arrive for two months in a row. This is what we mean when we say that this department must set realistic delivery targets and that it must meet them consistently.

Hanis, as many of you are aware, comprises the ID smart card, automated fingerprint identification system, Afis, electronic document management system and others. Getting Hanis right will provide us with the necessary technical platform towards the smart ID. We are continuing our work to analyse and refine our understanding of the potential benefits of the smart card. Our view is that a project of this size and complexity must provide greater identity security and that this is not achieved simply by changing ID formats.

I am pleased to report today that the Hanis disaster recovery site has now also been fully implemented. At the same time, we are making important progress on digitally capturing the birth, marriage and death records of our citizens under the electronic document management system, where a total of 57 million records have now been scanned.

The current financial year will see us spend a further R167 million to expand this project. Besides enhancing our ability to guarantee the integrity of the ID system, this is another example of how we will cut corruption, because the fewer loopholes there are in the system, the less manual matching of data that takes place and the fewer opportunities there are to crook the system.

Chairperson, I am speeding, I can see that my time is running out and I would appreciate it if you could cut down my response time from 15 minutes to 10 minutes so that I can use the five minutes to complete my speech.

We have already gone some way down the road, with the introduction of the track-and-trace system as an internal management tool. Track-and-trace allows the department’s managers to trace and, if necessary, to speed up the progress of an ID application. The system monitors progress from the moment of application through every stage of the process until the ID is delivered.

Managers are now able to establish which Home Affairs official has responsibility for the processing at each stage of the application. That means vastly enhanced security. But it is also a much more reliable method to monitor and manage the output of individual staff members, because track- and-trace allows us to see how much work each official involved in the ID process is actually doing each working day. This is another indication of how better infrastructure can assist in managing, monitoring and motivating our most strategic asset – our people.

So, we are building a new Home Affairs brick by brick. One of those bricks that we will announce during this financial year is the further roll-out of the track-and-trace system beyond its current functionality as an internal management tool. We will make details available as and when we are ready to add this brick to the new Home Affairs.

Suffice it to say, track-and-trace, when it is fully developed and rolled out to the public, will allow every ID applicant to follow the progress on their IDs themselves and to know when it is ready or to get answers as to why it might not be ready on time. Track-and-trace is one example and, of course, others are the R150 million for the modernisation of the passport system this year and R220 million for the live capture facility.

Live capture gives us the ability to record fingerprints, photographs and identity numbers alongside each other electronically and at the same moment within one document which belongs to one individual.

We have spoken about the turnaround action team, and our confidence that resources being allocated are well invested. We are confident that this intervention will make the necessary difference and be the catalyst in the creation of a new department, because we have agreed on a process which will ensure that the drivers on the road to the new Home Affairs are not just external consultants who then leave us rudderless at some point. In fact, the drivers of the process are all members of the department.

We will ensure that this intervention leaves behind a lasting and sustainable legacy. Members of the turnaround action team will be active in every significant area of the department and, of course, will be sponsored by a senior official in each directorate.

We have identified the following six areas which are critical for this turnaround action team: firstly, further development and roll-out of the track-and-trace system as an internal management tool and an external customer service tool; secondly, redesign and optimisation of the ID process, and this will include a pilot phase for the revised and enhanced ID process of the future; thirdly, redesign and optimisation of the permits and refugee processes - again including a pilot phase of the new system; fourthly, a review of the IT projects to assess their ability to align with and support our strategy and requirements of all business units; fifthly, a review of all key contracts and service level agreements; and, lastly, the evaluation of all potential areas of risk in the department including, but not limited to, corruption. In order for us to do this job, we have received support amounting to R100 million for this year and R300 million each year for the next two financial years.

The new Home Affairs is a necessity for our country. It is possible, in the interests of serving our people. As the Minister, and on behalf of the department, I pledge to you and to the people of this country that all people of goodwill within the department will give their best efforts towards making this new department a daily reality for all its clients.

I want to thank the management of the Department of Home Affairs and the entire staff of the department for their support. I also want to express my appreciation to my own family and, in particular, my comrade, who is my partner, Comrade Charles. Thank you. [Applause.]

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Thank you hon Minister. I would like to make an announcement: It should be noted that two committees – the joint ethics committee and the joint monitoring committee on women are currently sitting. Members who belong to those committees have not gone home but are in a meeting. Furthermore, four other members of the Select Committee on Labour and Enterprise are on a study tour. So, these people are busy with their work; it is not that they have gone home. It is not that they do not like the Budget Vote, Minister; it is just that they are busy. Thank you very much.

Ms J M MASILO: Hon Deputy Chair, I left my spectacles at home. I have had to borrow from my colleague in the DA, so I didn’t cross the floor. [Laughter.] Ms Lamoela, thank you very much.

Hon Deputy Chair, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister in absentia, and we wish him a speedy recovery and good health, members, special guests, director-general of the department and senior management of Home Affairs, it gives me great pleasure to speak on the Home Affairs Budget Vote No 4.

Sa pele ke lebogise lefapha go bo le thapile motsamaisi-kakaretso, tlhogo ya Lefapha la Merero ya Selegae, ntate Msimang, gore e nne ena yo o tlang go le etelela pele. Re go eleletsa masego mo tirong le kgwetlho ya lefapha.

O na le dibeke di le pedi fela a dira mo lefapheng, mme ka Labobedi fa ba ne ba re naya Tekayetsokabo ya lefapha ka bokhutshwane, re ne ra itumelela manontlhotlho a a a bontshitseng mo komiting. Re tshepa gore re tla mo tshegetsae bile re tla dirisana le ena sentle. (Translation of Setswana paragraphs follows.)

[Firstly, I would like to thank the department for appointing Mr Msimang as the Director-General, the one who leads the Department of Home Affairs. We wish him everything of the best in his job and the challenges that go with it.

He has been working in the department for only two weeks, but he has already briefed us on the budget of the department. We applaud him for the effectiveness he has shown to the committee. We assure him of our support and co-operation.]

Thank you very much, Minister, for the appointment. The Department of Home Affairs has a mandate to protect and regulate the interests of the inhabitants of the Republic of South Africa in respect of their individual status, identity and specific rights and powers, and to promote a supporting service to this effect. It is also responsible for managing migration and ports of entry, ensuring national security, enabling economic development and tourism, and promoting good international relations.

The department deals with civic services and issues documents such as birth, marriage and death certificates, identity documents and identification, citizenship, travel documents and passports. By engaging on this mandate, the department serves to service marginalised communities, deepens democracy and promotes social security.

Concerning policy priorities for 2007-08, the strategic priorities of the department for 2007-08 are primarily to improve its capacity to deliver per its mandate and to deliver core services to its clients. These include adopting measures to address the department’s structural capacity and operational reorganisation, especially in frontline offices. In addition, the department has to increase its human resource complement, particularly at senior management level, improve delivery on its core function, and ensure better governance.

In order to develop human resource capacity, the department plans to reorganise its structure, capacity and operations to ensure that it has qualified and suitable personnel to meet service demands. The department has conducted training programmes approved by the SA Qualifications Authority to improve its migration services. Furthermore, it aims to strengthen its leadership at management level.

Improving business processes and turnaround times is achieved by issuing enabling documents and minimising incorrect documents. The department has started upgrading its information and communication system through the Home Affairs National Identification System. Furthermore, the launch of the smart ID will improve identity document security and reduce incidents of fraudulent documents. Civic service is the biggest branch in the department. The issuing of ID and passport books takes about four to five months. I applied for my passport on 2 February 2007 and I only received it last week, after five months. I was assisted by Stevens, an official here in Cape Town. He really works hard for the members to get through. We thank him for that.

What is the department and civic services doing to improve operations to ensure effective and efficient service delivery? The select committee welcomes the R150 million allocated for the turnaround of the passport system process and the replacement of the old ones. It also welcomes the R600 million from the National Treasury for the implementation of the turnaround strategy.

Immigration offices must be classified as essential services by the department. We welcome the roll-out of 109 mobile units and an additional eight units for this department. I’m not going to speak about how these are going to be distributed, the Minister has done that. But, it is important for the members of this House to monitor those mobile units during their constituency period.

Regarding increasing access to services, one of the key aims of the department is to alleviate poverty by creating opportunities for applicants for government social assistance to obtain enabling documents. The department has launched on-line child registration facilities at hospitals. We also request that the department looks at health centres and clinics in the localities regarding those operations.

The department has also established mobile units in the rural areas and we have mentioned that. The department plans to continue with building offices and increasing the number of mobile units over the Medium-Term Expenditure Framework. Well done, hon Minister – also regarding the new offices in Taung, which were not in good standing.

Regarding the upgrade of border control, the department reported that it has started upgrading detention facilities for illegal immigrants and it is investigating the possibility of expanding these services nationwide. The department is also involved in the design of new border posts and it is planning to undertake repair and maintenance programmes for some border posts. In addition, a project office, special measures Bill and project plan have been put in place in preparation for the 2010 Fifa World Cup.

The department has prioritised immigration management and the formulation of border control policies and systems. We need to know about the progress report.

Concerning key developments and legislative challenges, the department promulgated the Civil Union Act to solemnise same-sex marriages. In 2006, the department also amended the Immigration Act of 2002 to facilitate the attraction of scarce skills into the country, in line with the Accelerated and Shared Growth Initiative for South Africa, Asigsa. The department plans to amend the refugees amendment Bill and the Electoral Amendment Bill in

We welcome the initiatives by the department.

These priorities address the strategic objectives identified in the 2007 state of the nation address. Most importantly, the aforementioned strategies are aligned to the findings and recommendations of the support intervention task team.

One of the key recommendations made by the task team is the need to develop a recruitment plan to fill senior management positions in order to strengthen the capacity of the department. The organisational structure should be implemented, urgently, to enable the department to carry out its responsibilities. The department should establish monitoring and evaluation mechanisms to provide up-to-date information management for decision-making processes, and to identify areas that need urgent intervention to improve performance management.

With regard to personnel expenditure for 2007-08, the department received its increased budget allocation of R1,2 billion compared to R974 million in the 2006-07 financial year. We welcome the increase.

The 2006-07 budget allocation was underspent by the department by 7,3%. According to the department, this was due to the slow filling of vacant posts. Nothing materialised on the smart ID project. There was a delay in the repair and maintenance project, and it did not materialise, owing to prolonged tender procedures by the Department of Public Works.

In conclusion, I would like to thank you, Chairperson, and hon members of this august House, the Ministry, the director-general, and the senior management for the role you are playing in our quest to improve the lives of our people through accelerated service delivery in the various constituencies. Ke a leboga. Dankie. [Thank you.] [Applause.]

Mr O M THETJENG: Chairperson, hon Minister and colleagues, let me start by condemning the callous action of some youth yesterday along Modderdam Road, who threw stones at the bus that was transporting MPs to Laboria Park. A half brick broke the window against which the hon Sulliman had been sitting just a few minutes before, otherwise hon Sulliman might have been injured.

Let us make South Africa a place full of hope and respect for human life that comes once. Let us respect other people’s property, and lets show love and dignity to all. That incident was really horrible and I don’t think there is anybody who can actually condone it. We were nearly injured but, fortunately, when I am around things work better. [Laughter.] [Interjections.]

Mohlomphegi Tona, mo selekanong sa go ka ba ngwaga le matšatši a go ka ba a mabedi o be o le ka mo Ntlong ye, o bega ditšhelete tša lefapha la gago, moo o ilego wa kgopela gore re ke re thekge kabotekanyetšo ya mašeleng a lefapha la gago. O ile wa be wa bega ka moo tšwelopele e bilego ka gona tirišong ya mašeleng ao. Bjale lehono ke tla leka go bona gore a naa tše dingwe tša tšeo o ilego wa di bolela di phethagetše go fihla kae le gore tšeo di padilego di paletšwe go fihla kae; gape le gore tšeo di šaletšego morago di tla phethagatšwa neng. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[Hon Minister, a period of approximately one year and almost two days have elapsed since you were in this House, reporting about finances in your department, where you requested that we support the budget of your department. You even reported how much progress you had made in utilising these finances. Therefore, today I will try to see to what extent some of the things you have spoken about have been implemented and which of them have not been implemented; and again when to implement those which have not yet been implemented.]

The DA wants to congratulate you on introducing mobile units with state of the art technology that are valuable to our communities in the rural areas. The units spent the whole week in my village in Limpopo in 2006 assisting members of the community. I really appreciate that. Many parents managed to apply for and received birth certificates for their children. Adults who could not manage to travel to the next local office due to lack of finances managed to apply for their IDs at these mobile units.

You promised to provide an additional six in the 2006-07 financial year in Limpopo. You have just reported that there are now 17 in Limpopo. We really appreciate that and they are really valuable.

Yesterday I went to apply for an ID and I hope that ID will come as speedily as possible. I used the mobile unit up there and I hope it won’t take as long a period as hon Masilo has indicated, regarding her passport. The officials are here and they hear what I am saying and will check mine quickly.

Modulasetulo, ntumelele ke diriše leleme la gešo. Ke kgopela Tona ya rena ka tsweetswee gore a thuše mokgalabje yo mongwe kua gagešo yoo pasa ya gagwe e ngwadilwego gore ga se modudi wa Afrika Borwa. Taba ye e bonagetše ngwageng wo fetilego nakong ya dikgetho, moo a rilego ge a swanetše go ya go bouta, ba mmotša gore yena ga se modudi wa Afrika Borwa gomme ka senthealo a ka se dumelelwe go kgetha. Mohlomongwe o be a nyakile go kgetha nna!

Ka ge bahlankedi ba mmušo ba le gona mo – le nna ke le gona mo – ke tla kgopela thušo ka tsweetswee go Tona ka baka la gore go thwe monna yoo ``ga se modudi wa Afrika Borwa’’ eupša rena re agilego le yena motseng wa gešo ka moka re tloge re tseba gabotsebotse gore ke mogagaborena. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.) [Chairperson, allow me to use my mother tongue. I am requesting our Minister to assist a certain old man in whose identity document it is written that he is not a South African citizen. This became evident during the elections in the previous year when he was supposed to cast a vote; he was told that he is not a South African citizen and he will not be allowed to cast a vote. Maybe he wanted to elect me!

As government leaders who are present - with me included - I plead with the Minister for help because it is said that he is not a South African citizen, but we as neighbours in our village all actually know that he is our fellow South African.]

He was told that he was not eligible to vote as he was not a South African. Go with your officials to my place, Indermark village, in Limpopo, and I will take them to the old man to assist him as speedily as possible. It is my request, Minister. If his business could be done quickly, I would really appreciate that.

The DA wants to know how many of the 993 posts in the provinces for the 2006-07 financial year have already been filled, as promised in your Budget Vote speech of last year in this House. You also indicated that you managed to fill 634 of 898 critical posts in 2006. How many of the 898 are still to be filled at this stage, so that we can have this department up and running?

Our provincial delegation visited the Beit Bridge port of entry in Musina - the once thriving copper-mining town - during our provincial week on 15 May

The main purpose was to do an oversight assessment of this port of entry during the not-so-peak times.

There are various government departments manning this port of entry, namely Home Affairs, Safety and Security, Agriculture, Customs, SA Revenue Services – to mention but a few. The following flaws that make our port of entry highly porous were identified and need to be urgently addressed. You know, things are “osmotic” through that port of entry, hon Minister.

Passenger goods trains that travel between Zimbabwe and South Africa are not searched at the border post but are only searched in Germiston. Surely, illegal items can easily be smuggled in and out of the country unnoticed. These must be attended to as a matter of urgency. All trains must be searched at the border post so that we are secure.

There are no CCTV cameras to monitor activities within the processing offices and surrounding areas. Also, it is alleged that fraudulent activities are taking place on a daily basis. Money changes hands. We would really appreciate it if that particular port of entry was taken care of, because it’s a problem.

There is a lack of scanners on the South African side. Trucks with trailers, in excess of 50 per day, are passing through that border and are manually checked by a few staff members. Surely, it is not practical for such trucks to be checked manually without causing any delays. The scanners will go a long way to alleviate the problem, cut down time spent on each of the trucks, ensure that only designated goods are allowed to be exported out of and imported into the country. By the way, the Zimbabwean side of the border has scanners, yet illegals from the other side are coming through, which means that that side is really not doing what it’s supposed to do.

The existing buildings at that particular port of entry are outdated and do not serve the present purpose, as they were made for that particular terrible era that we all know about. Minister, in your last report last year you didn’t mention that port of entry as one of the entries that are to be attended to. I would really request that you consider that port of entry, because it’s the busiest in Limpopo, and I suppose in South Africa.

It is also alleged that a police officer in that particular area declined to be promoted to a higher position, wanting to remain at a lower position because at that port of entry money is changing hands and he was making more money than in the position that he was to occupy. The police officer actually declined that particular offer and he resigned to form his own company.

Therefore, Minister, these are some of the observations at the border that need to be dealt with, before the start of the African Confederations Cup and the subsequent Fifa Soccer World Cup in 2009 and 2010 respectively. Beit Bridge border control is one of the busiest, and we would like you, hon Minister, to take care of that.

The Minister introduced various campaigns, including the Lokisa Ditokomane campaign, which assisted people whose identity documents were incorrect. This campaign could not sufficiently reach the remote areas. In cases where it reached these areas, the requirements were sometimes very difficult to comply with.

The elderly are requested to get a letter from the school. Most people in rural areas have never been to school. If they ever were at school, the school is no longer in existence or records are no longer available. They are asked to bring along their baptismal certificates but they have never been to church.

Therefore, Minister, maybe some of the requirements can be relaxed so that we can assist the elderly in getting their documents that they are supposed to get. We really feel that …

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Your time has expired.

Mr O M THETJENG: God once said you don’t drown by … The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Your time has expired. Thank you.

Mr O M THETJENG: Chairperson, I really appreciate your giving me this time and I hope the department will proceed to do the job it is supposed to do. Thank you.

The DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Hon member, the first time I call out to you that your time has expired is when your time has expired.

Ms N M MADLALA-MAGUBANE: Sihlalo, ngibingelela uNgqongqoshe namalunga ahloniphekile akhona kule ndawo, ngibingelele umqondisi-jikelele omusha kanye nethimba lakhe lonke. [Chairperson, I greet the Minister and the hon members present here, and the newly appointed director-general and his entire team.]

I would like to say that, as a select committee, we are aware that the Department of Home Affairs is doing its level best to meet South African citizens’ needs regarding curbing corruption which is occurring amongst its staff members around the issuing of the necessary documents to the citizens of the country, and regarding practising the principles of Batho Pele in all its offices.

Ngithanda ukuphawula ukuthi konke lokhu akwanele neze; usemkhulu umsebenzi okumele wenziwe yilo Mnyango. Uma sihamba sivakasha siyikomiti sihlangabezana nobugebengu noma ubelelesi. Mangisho ukuthi isihlava sisekhona phakathi kwabasebenzi balo Mnyango. Abanye babasebenzi basazenzela umathanda, abanye basaqhubeka nokukhwabanisa, bagombela kwezabo izisu.

Ngakho-ke kuyisifiso sekomiti elibheke ukusebenza kwalo Mnyango ukubona zonke izelelesi zixoshwa kulo Mnyango, ngoba zibambezela inqubekela- phambili kuleli zwe lethu. Lobu belelesi buyabonakala emahhovisi ezifunda lapho kufakwa izicelo zomazisi, zezitifiketi zokufa nezicelo zezimvume zokuvakashela ngaphandle kwemingcele yaleli zwe. Kunabasebenzi abasagwazisa umphakathi.

Mangize ezikhungweni zemingcele yakuleli. Emingceleni nakhona kusabheda, Ngqongqoshe. Ngokunjalo kukhona abasebenzi abasazenzela umathanda njengoba umhlonishwa uThetjeng eseshilo. Izifikanamthwalo ezingena kuleli ngokungemthetho ziyanda nsuku zonke. Kokunye kucacisa ukuthi yizona ezigwazela bona phela abasebenzi.

Sesingenile-ke isifikanamthwalo lapha eNingizimu Afrika, siyathathwa, siboshwe, sithunyelwe eLindela eGauteng. Lezi zifikanamthwalo zifika lapho zigcinwe izinsukwana, emuva kwalokho zithunyelwe emuva lapho ziqhamuka khona. Esikushoyo siyikomiti sithi: Kungani kungakhiwa ezinye izakhiwo ezifana neLindela khona lapho emingceleni ukuze ngaleyo ndlela imali kahulumeni yongeke?

Okunye futhi esikuphawulile ukuthi abasebenzi emingceleni basebenza izinsuku eziningi bengayi emakhaya ukuyobona imindeni yabo ngoba imindeni ikude. Esikuhlongozayo ukuthi makwakhiwe izindlu khona lapho emingceleni ukuze phela bakwazi ukuhlala nemindeni yabo uma bengasebenzi.

Uma ngiza kuBatho Pele, lesi sexwayiso seBatho Pele yisona esibaluleke kakhulu ekwakhiweni kwesizwe sethu. Ngithanda ukusho ukuthi abanye babasebenzi boMnyango abazifaki izichazimagama zabo, ngakho-ke kuba lukhuni ukusizwa kwezakhamizi zakithi kuleli. Iningi lalaba basebenzi yibona abangenaso nhlobo isineke ekukhulumeni nabantu. Ngingazi-ke noma mhlawumbe basuke bekhathele yini ngoba kwezinye izindawo uthola imigqa emide kanti futhi nezimo zokusebenza ziyabheda. Kwamanye amahhovisi abanawo ngisho amakhabethe okubeka izincwadi zamafayela noma-ke ufika amakhompiyutha ebheda. Amanye amahhovisi akhiwe ngendlela yokuthi abakhubazekile abakwazi ukufinyelela kuwo neze.

Siyakuthakasela ukuba khona komahambanendlwana, ikakhulukazi emakhaya. Kodwa angiphawule ukuthi abanele, kanti futhi abanye abakhona abasebenzi, batholakala eceleni kwemigwaqo befile. Kunjalo sibabonile omahambanendlwana lapha ngaphandle izolo, kodwa umbuzo uthi: Kungani bengabonakali ezindaweni ezifanele?

Ngokunjalo, siyizithunywa zomphakathi siyaxhumana namahhovisi mayelana nezinkinga esizitholayo emphakathini. Nokho mangisho ukuthi ziyatholakala izisombululo. Usizo siyaluthola emahhovisi asemphakathini. Ngokunjalo-ke siyaweseka kakhulu uMnyango. Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[I wish to indicate that all this is not enough; there is a lot of work that this department still needs to do. During our oversight visits as a committee, we become vulnerable to crime or criminal activities. Let me say that there are still remnants of bad behaviour amongst the officials of this department. Some still do as they please; others still continue with corruption and they only think about themselves.

It is therefore the wish of the select committee to see all criminals in this department fired, because they stall progress in our country. This criminality manifests itself in regional offices when people apply for identity documents, death certificates, and passports. There are staff members who still fraudulently take money from the public.

Let me come to border posts. Minister, things are still bad at the borders. Likewise, there are staff members who still do as they please, as the hon Thetjeng has already said. The number of illegal immigrants entering this country every day is on the rise. It is sometimes these illegal immigrants who bribe the officials of the department. When illegal immigrants enter South Africa, they are arrested and sent to Lindela Repatriation Centre in Gauteng. They are then kept there for a few days and then deported to their respective countries. What we are asking as a committee is: Why aren’t there many other structures like Lindela … at border posts which will help minimise the government spending on these people.

The other thing which we have noted with concern is that officials at the border posts work for many days and they do not have time to go home to see their families because they are far away. Our proposal is that houses should be built at the border posts for these officials so that they can stay with their families when they are not working.

When it comes to Batho Pele principles, these principles are very important in building our nation. I would also like to mention that some officials of the department do not wear their name tags, and this makes it difficult for the people to be served in this country. Most of these officials are impatient when they speak to the people, though I do not know whether they are tired because at some places you get long queues and the working conditions are also bad. Some offices do not even have filing cabinets or you find that computers are off-line. Other offices are built in such a way that people with disabilities cannot access them.

We welcome the presence of the mobile units, especially in rural areas, but I must indicate that they are not enough, and others that are available are out of order, you find them by the side of the road broken down. It is indeed true that we saw mobile units parked outside yesterday, but the question is: Why are they not where they are supposed to be?

Likewise, we as the public representatives, consult with offices about the problems that we encounter in communities. Let me state though that we do find solutions. We get help from the offices which are within communities. Therefore we support the department a lot. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]]

Ms J WITBOOI (Western Cape): Hon Chairperson of the NCOP, hon Minister of Home Affairs, members of the House, colleagues and friends, allow me to apologise on behalf of our MEC for social development, Ms Koleka Mqulwana, who has had to travel abroad on official government business. I need to make this apology in order for all of you to understand the context of the message that I am bringing here today. I was asked at very short notice to come here to the House on her behalf.

As we intensify programmes aimed at protecting the most vulnerable groups in our society, the Western Cape department of social development is particularly encouraged by the Minister’s wide-ranging announcements, contained within her department’s new turnaround action plan.

One of the core functions and constitutional requirements of the Department of Social Development is the protection of children, especially the girl- child. It is within that context that the Minister’s speech speaks directly to the work we do in this province, rated amongst the highest in the country, regarding the abuse and murder of children.

The Home Affairs Budget Vote comes at a time when our department is grappling with the challenges of poverty, vulnerability, inequality and social exclusion. Some of the main developmental obstacles facing us as a nation include the increasing levels of impoverishment, rising unemployment and the inability of the majority of people to access sources of livelihood or free basic services.

Diseases such as HIV and Aids remain one of the key challenges of our time and have the most severe impact on the poorest of the poor. These conditions are denying communities the opportunity to participate fully in an active economy and sustained livelihood, and instead burden them with the costs of care, medicine and funerals.

In addition, the capacity of the state to reach the vast majority of poor people is often limited because of resource constraints, due to the decades of apartheid rule. Often, government requires the establishment of strategic relations with progressive multiple agencies to provide social protection. In this regard, we are encouraged by the Minister’s announcement of the extension of government services to rural areas, via mobile units, to ensure that deserving beneficiaries are registered and provided with the necessary legal documents such as identity documents and birth certificates.

We further applaud the Minister’s announcement that she has requested her department’s legal team to investigate the possibility of taking children’s fingerprints at a very early age, when they enter early childhood development centres and primary school. This initiative, as announced by the Minister, will enable law-enforcement agencies to track and trace a child in the event of murder or abduction.

We support the hon Minister’s initiative as it speaks directly to our child protection campaign which seeks to increase the awareness of communities where the abuse of children is concerned. The overriding purpose of Child Protection Week 2007 is to raise awareness and mobilise the whole country around the protection of children against poverty and vulnerability.

We also seek to strengthen collaboration to address social ills such as child neglect, abuse and exploitation as well as substance abuse and other circumstances that perpetuate child vulnerability. Child poverty cannot be dealt with in isolation from the broader context of the family and the community.

Most South African families, in particular those who were disadvantaged by the past regime, find it very difficult to get out of the poverty trap. They have remained poor throughout their lifespan and in many cases across generations.

There are many causes of poverty and its nature is also multidimensional. Lack of access to basic services such as housing, water, electricity, and education as well as the disintegration of families, communities and social networks make up some of the common features of poverty. Families and communities presenting these features suffer multideprivation, which impacts on all its members, children in particular.

Evidence shows that, unless there is sufficient external intervention, social mobility of children living in extreme poverty is very slow, and the likelihood that they can make it to the top is often very remote. We have to acknowledge that poverty is a multi-dimensional phenomenon. Tackling it will therefore require a co-ordinated approach to services for families with young children in order to improve access to employment, essential public services and early childhood development services. It is again very important to recognise the role of parents, community and faith-based organisations and the private sector in tackling child poverty.

Government cannot uproot child poverty alone but through partnerships with those who embrace the principle of a caring society. In South Africa, we find a very high concentration of poverty among those households with young children. In this regard, the above-mentioned announcement by the hon Minister will effectively solve the problem of child-headed households, where most of the children do not have the required documents to apply for social grants.

I want to take this opportunity to further express our province’s and specifically our department of social development’s gratitude to the hon Minister for her initiative of establishing a system that registers children immediately after their birth. This has made our work as the Department of Social Development much easier when it comes to loading newborn babies onto our system, regarding social grants.

As we approach the commemoration of Youth Day, I want to take this opportunity and urge all departments, NGOs, private sector companies and communities themselves to build onto the momentum already set in motion by the Department of Home Affairs’ new turnaround action team. As the Minister rightfully told us today, Batho Pele must be much more than a slogan; it should be a principle in action as it guides us towards increased and improved service delivery. The Western Cape supports this Budget Vote.

Mrs J N VILAKAZI: Chairperson, hon Ministers, hon MECs in absentia – since I don’t see any of them - hon members and officials, the department is judged solely on the quality of services rendered to the public. While there have been general improvements in service delivery, it is still the department’s biggest challenge that must be overcome. The IFP acknowledges that the department, through a turnaround strategy, is succeeding in improving service delivery but a proper evaluation of this would only be possible after the lapse of more time.

The total allocation of Home Affairs for the 2007-08 financial year increases by R514 million, that is 18%, from R2,8 billion to R3,3 billion, when looking at the adjustment appropriation budget for 2006-07. This will not cover the enormous backlog experienced by my province of KwaZulu-Natal.

In KwaZulu-Natal, service delivery has not yet improved in the rural areas. The inhabitants do not have access to departmental services within a manageable distance and they still have to travel long distances and long hours to urban centres at great expense, in time and money, to obtain their official documents that are needed for employment and other civic matters.

Iningi labantu engikhuluma ngabo alisebenzi. Akulula ukuya emadolobheni ukuze bathole usizo abaludingayo; bangabantu abahlwempu. Baye bavele baqome ukuhlala bengenaso nasicucu leso sezincwadi ezibalulekile. Kuyinkinga enkulu lokhu. (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)

[Most of the people that I am talking about here are not working. It is not easy for them to go to town to obtain the services they need; they are impoverished people. They simply choose to live without that important document. This is a very big problem.]

We were promised that mobile units would be deployed and I know that 16 mobile units have been deployed in KwaZulu-Natal. They were supposed to be used in the far-flung rural areas but, most unfortunately, that is not the case - they just go around on the tarred roads. However, this has not happened and the department recently considered that the mobile units are not suitable to travel on the roads that do exist in the rural areas. These are mostly gravel roads but the mobile units are apparently only suitable for tarred roads.

Kusho ukuthi inkinga ayikathintwa. Ayikho imigwaqo emaphandleni engasetshenziswa abantu abanswempu nabahluphekayo. Kusho ukuthi sekudingeka nezokuthutha zingene lapho. Kodwa-ke noma kunjalo, ngicabanga ukuthi kukhona okungenzeka. Inkinga le ithinta iMinyango embalwa. Imigwaqo ayikho futhi eminye mibi, ayihambeki, kodwa omasipala bakhona futhi nezinkantolo zamakhosi zikhona. Uma omahambanendlwana bengaya kulezo zindawo singacishe sithi kukhona okwenzekayo, hhayi ukuthi bagcine ngokuzungeza lapha emadolobheni kodwa bengayi ngaphandle kwedolobha.

KwaZulu-Natali bebezungeza khona nje lapho edolobheni kubantu abanosimapala abathathu, iRichards Bay, Melmoth naseMpangeni. Laphaya kwanjakayiphume ngempela akuthinteki lutho nje, kunjengoba kunjalo. Kusho ukuthi ohluphekayo uyohlupheka aze afe. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[This therefore means that the problem has not yet been solved. There are no roads in rural areas that can be used by the impoverished and destitute people. This calls for the Transport department to play its role here. Be that as it may, I think something can still be done. This problem concerns a few other departments.

In certain areas there are no roads and others are in a bad state, they are unusable, and municipalities and tribal courts seem to do nothing about these. If the mobile units can go to those places we can, at least, say that something is being done. These mobile units should not be seen just roaming around here in towns and not go to the outskirts of town.

In KwaZulu-Natal these mobile units were just roaming around in town, helping people who have the luxury of three municipalities, namely Richards Bay, Melmoth and Empangeni, whereas in rural areas, nothing is happening at all; everything is still the same. This confirms that a person who is suffering now will suffer until she dies.]

The saga of the mobile units in KwaZulu-Natal clearly demonstrates the need for the department to build permanent structures in the rural areas so that the citizens can obtain services. Although such structures are expensive, it is in the interest of the department and the country that services are taken to the people, especially the rural poor.

Allow me to conclude by welcoming the Director-General of the Department of Home Affairs in his very challenging post. He comes with the reputation of being a turnaround specialist and I am sure he is already aware that all his skills will be required at Home Affairs. We wish him well in his job and wish him success with the department. I thank you. [Applause.]

Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Voorsitter, alle mense se paaie kruis van tyd tot tyd met die Departement van Binnelandse Sake en dit is nie altyd aangenaam om na die departement toe te gaan nie. Mens staan in lang toue. Nou onlangs moes ek vir ’n uur en ’n half daar staan om my paspoort te hernieu en voor my was slegs 20 mense in die ry. Laat dit wees soos dit wil, die hele omkeerstrategie lyk belowend en ons sal met belangstelling dophou hoe die strategie gaan werk. Baie sukses met hierdie omkeerplan.

Binnelandse Sake het ’n bevolkingsregister waarin die name van alle landsburgers geregistreer is. Wanneer iemand 18 jaar oud word, dan is so ’n persoon geregtig om te stem. Alvorens so iemand kan stem, moet hy natuurlik as sodanig geregistreer word by die Onafhaklike Verkiesingskommissie. Dit is so dat die OVK wel registrasieveldtogte het, wat die mense geleentheid gee om wel te gaan registreer. Dit is gedeeltelik suksesvol.

Die VF wil egter ‘n voorstel doen: Minister, wat is die moontlikheid dat die bevolkingsregister gebruik kan word as basis waaruit die kieserslyste saamgestel kan word? Nie alleen is dit makliker nie, ons is ook van mening dat dit doeltreffender kan wees om die bevolkingsregister te gebruik om al die landsburgers die geleentheid te gee om te kan stem.

Dit is tog so dat dit elke burger se reg is om te stem. Dit is nou weliswaar so dat elkeen wat ouer as 18 is, wel kan stem, maar dan moet hy eers registreer by die OVK. Gebruik van die bevolkingsregistrasieregister kan tyd en geld spaar en dit kan meebring dat die grondwetlike reg om te stem net makliker en meer toeganklik gemaak kan word. Dit is ’n praktiese manier en dit sal in belang wees van almal, wat deelneem aan verkiesings. Ek sal graag die agb Minister se antwoord hierop wil hê. Ek dank u. (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)

[Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Chairperson, all of us have to cross paths with the Department of Home Affairs from time to time, and it is not always a pleasure to go there. One has to stand in a long queue. Recently I had to stand in a queue for an hour and a half to renew my passport and there were only 20 people ahead of me. Be that as it may, the entire turnaround strategy looks promising and we will follow its progress with keen interest. Good luck with this turnaround plan.

Home Affairs has a population register in which the names of all citizens are recorded. Upon turning 18 years of age, one has the right to vote. Of course, before one can vote, one has to be registered with the Independent Electoral Commission. It is true that the IEC does have registration campaigns that afford the public the opportunity to register. This is partially successful.

The FF Plus would, however, like to make the following proposal: Hon Minister, what is the possibility of utilising the population register as the basis from which voters’ lists could be compiled? This would not only make things easier, but we are also of the opinion that it could be more effective to utilise the population register to afford all citizens the opportunity to vote.

It is, after all, a fact that every citizen has the right to vote. It is true that a person who is older than 18 is entitled to vote, but then the person should first be registered with the IEC. Using the population register can save time and money, and it can only result in making the constitutional right to vote simpler and more accessible. This is a practical method, and it will be to the advantage of everybody who is voting in elections. I would like the hon Minister to respond to this. I thank you.]

Mr N D HENDRICKSE: Hon Chair, hon Minister, hon members, the much-awaited turnaround strategy to right-size, root out corruption and put systems in place is long overdue. We hope to see speedy results by the next Budget Vote.

Teething problems will still remain around the issuing of ID documents, where corruption is rife and service is poor. We can only hope that the Home Affairs National Identification System, the Hanis smart-card system will come into operation soon. We thank you for your input this morning and, please, get a high-ranking policeman to jail these corrupt people.

Refugees complain about poor handling, the long turnaround time for documentation and incompetent, corrupt personnel who extort money for quick processing of the documents. Given the influx of refugees and jobseekers from Zimbabwe, we ask that more border control personnel be deployed to handle the Zim crisis. The border area should be sufficiently staffed to handle the number of refugees.

Immigration control has come in for criticism, given its handling of the deportation of illegal refugees, the inhumane treatment and conditions under which the refugees are held, and transported. However, we must recognise the revolving-door case where those deported simply return weeks later, as happens with Zimbabweans, for example.

The Independent Electoral Commission continues to do good work in expanding its capacity-building role into Africa, in terms of system support and administrative advice. The budget is inadequate, with regard to the Film and Publication Board, given the monitoring role it must play over a large industry.

The improvements in processing work permits for highly skilled foreigners are noted, but some companies still complain about the administrative burden it places on them.

Hon Minister, well, we note your explanation that poorly performing employees will not be fired but will be retrained. This has to be done within the context of a proper performance management system. I still think that a structure such as the Immigration Advisory Board can offer useful assistance on procedures and systems for quicker turnaround times for foreigners to take up jobs in the country. There must be timeous communication regarding the nonacceptance of temporary passports by the United Kingdom and the European Union countries, so that travellers are aware of the nonacceptance, given the long period for processing normal passports.

Given that Foreign Affairs is opening up more representative offices and high commissions in Africa and other regions, it is essential that Home Affairs seconds competent visa personnel to such stations. I wish the Minister and her team strength as she tackles this massive project.

I just want to ask the Minister, through the Chair, about something she spoke about regarding granting work permits to people. My worry is just that, around the world, people don’t get work permits unless they have jobs. We see a lot of people coming here who don’t have jobs but have work permits. Is that correct? That’s what worries us a little bit about this.

Through the Chair, Minister, we do appreciate that you acknowledge the challenges, and we want to wish you well. We really support the budget. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr B J TOLO: Chair, I just want to say that maybe Home Affairs needs to be understood in its historical context, that is, Home Affairs used to be the main department that was used by the apartheid regime to oppress and subjugate our people. The culture of service and the culture of respect for citizenry were very foreign in this department then. Therefore the problems that are in Home Affairs are historical problems and deep-rooted. We may not be able to solve them overnight. But, yes, as the ANC, we are doing our best to sort out all those problems. Having said that, I then want to come to my speech.

Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, the new director-general, thanks for the opportunity. Home Affairs is the nerve centre of the activities of government and its citizens. It is responsible for issuing documents to all citizens to enable them to obtain government and private sector benefits. Without documents from Home Affairs, one may not be in a position to get a job, a house or participate in any meaningful activities that ensure a normal life for a person.

In order for this department to live up to its expectations and deliver quality services to its people to better their lives and deepen democracy, it must function like well-oiled machinery. It has to be sensitive to the needs of the people in its daily operations. It must be a department that is exemplary, when it comes to the principles of Batho Pele.

Hitherto, the department has not been very inspiring in many instances. It is bedevilled with many problems which we think need to be addressed as a matter of urgency. It is for this reason that the Minister has appointed a support intervention team to identify the problems and suggest a strategy that would help the department to get on its feet and discharge its responsibilities in a manner that is acceptable to all. We commend the Minister for that. We are aware that some of the recommendations of that task team are already in the process of being implemented. We hope and trust that this time around the corrective measures will work.

Four days ago, our committee met with the new HOD. We take this opportunity to welcome him and express the hope that he will be equal to the task. We can tell him that he can count on us as dependable allies. Your tasks, head of department, are many and complicated. The acid test for your success lies in dealing a decisive blow to the rampant corruption that is eroding the integrity of your department in particular and government in general.

You must keep on improving the department’s ability to deliver quality services to the citizens. To this end, you will have to take a fresh look at your personnel and check if they have the requisite skills to perform their tasks. If they are found wanting regarding the necessary skills, do not hesitate to deploy and redeploy, for it is only when your foot soldiers are properly skilled that you can succeed.

We hope that the department will see fit to establish at least one Home Affairs office in each municipality. During the 2004 elections, my organisation, the ANC, deployed me to work in a municipality called Emakhazeni in Mpumalanga. The entire municipality is made up of three small towns and farming areas. These small towns are Belfast, Machadodorp and Watervaal Boven.

All these small towns do not have a single office of Home Affairs. Home Affairs officials come once a week from Lydenburg to each of these small towns. The challenge is that they arrive at about 10:30 to 11:00 and leave at about 14:00 so that they are back at their offices in Lydenburg at 16:00, because this is their knock-off time. Officially these officials work for only three hours. At the time they knock off they leave large numbers of people unattended to – some of whom would have travelled very long distances from farming areas. It is our considered view that these officials would optimise their service if they operated in offices located in the municipality.

In our interaction with the department this year we were heartened to learn that the department has finally taken a decision to decentralise some of its non-core functions that they are involved in. When we visited Garankuwa offices last year, we found that pipes in the ablution blocks were blocked. Upon enquiry as to why they were not repaired, we were told that the problem was reported to the head office in Pretoria. We believe, as a department, that there is no need to report this to head office and that this can be done in-house - at the offices themselves.

Chair, if you go to any Home Affairs office you would find stacks and stacks of IDs which are not collected notwithstanding the fact that the department has also enlisted the services of post offices to distribute these. Among other reasons for people not collecting their ID documents is the fact that some people apply for IDs in different places and only fetch one ID, because the systems do not talk to each other. Now that there is a new strategy in the department and there is also an improvement in the IT system, we are sure that the systems will be able to talk to each other.

The upgrading of border control could not have come at a better time. It is done at a time when, as a country, we are preparing ourselves for the Fifa World Cup to be held on our shores in three years’ time. It is to be expected that over and above the soccer fans who will come into South Africa legally, we will have those who may want to come in illegally and attempt to see the matches having not come through the border posts. As a department and a country, we need to be ready to deal with such eventualities. You will need more detention centres, as somebody else has already mentioned.

It is agreed that our economy has outgrown the skills bank in our country. This shortage of skills has become a factor regarding further development of our economy. We need to move with speed to develop those scarce skills. In the meantime this department is at the core of facilitating the movement of people from elsewhere in the world into our country. The amendment to the immigration legislation is just what the doctor has ordered for us to respond to the demands of Jipsa and Asgisa. We commend the department for the quick response for us to import skills. That will go a long way towards growing our economy and, by extension, expanding the frontiers of prosperity.

In conclusion, we want to wish the department well in their turnaround strategy to serve our people better. We have no doubt that this time around we will indeed turn the corner. We want to thank the Minister and the department that, during our Taking Parliament to the People sessions, they have always deployed mobile units wherever we have gone. These units have served our people very well and we want to thank them very much. We want to support the Budget Vote. Thank you. [Applause.]

The MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS: Chairperson, hon members, thank you very much for your inputs and constructive criticism. I also want to thank you because all of you, without exception, have in your inputs appreciated the deployment of a turnaround team to the Department of Home Affairs.

I am saying this because, in some quarters, questions have been raised regarding the turnaround team, such as: How much are we going to pay this team and why do we need another turnaround team, when we have heard over a period of four or five years that there are turnaround teams which are coming into the department? The truth of the matter is that, to have a turnaround team intervening and assisting you turn things around in the department, without conducting or having a proper diagnosis of the nature of the problems and challenges you are confronted with in that department, is indeed a futile exercise.

The difference this time around is that we invited a support intervention task team, which conducted an in-depth analysis of the problems of the department. On the basis of the observations, findings and recommendations of that report we have now solicited the support of this particular team of private sector experts to come into the department.

The other question that has been raised by some people in some quarters is: Why a team of international experts from the private sector? It is because of the experience they have of having assisted in restructuring and turning around other departments of home affairs or departments of interior affairs in other parts of the world such as the Netherlands, Belgium, New Zealand, US and so forth. Therefore we have an opportunity to be properly benchmarked according to international standards.

Mme Masilo, you have raised the issue of the immigration services and the importance of declaring that particular directorate or branch an essential service. We are in the process of doing that. You may also have noticed that last week there was an interdict which was seeking to prevent immigration officers from embarking on a strike. We had to do that because we had not as yet received a response from the committee which is supposed to take such decisions. We had made an application some time ago that this particular service should be declared an essential service. We hope that by the end of today we shall have clarity about what the way forward on this matter should be.

Ntate Thetjeng, we will follow up on that old man in that part of Limpopo to establish exactly what the nature of his problem is and, by the way, he is not the only one. There are many other people in the country who have come forward to say that their IDs refer to them as non-citizens of the country. We are quite sensitive on that particular issue.

The biggest challenge is that when we have the Lokisa Ditokomane campaign, people focus on the correctness or the incorrectness of their particulars in the document. Those who had these particular kinds of challenges did not come forward to rectify that and it is something that all of us have to work on. I also believe that the Lokisa Ditokomane campaign should be resuscitated.

I also want, colleagues, to mention a particular challenge which we are currently confronted with, that of people wanting to access grants by hook or by crook. A large number of people, some of them my age – it is amazing

are coming forward to claim that the dates of birth in their IDs are incorrect. The truth of the matter is: The poverty in the country is such that it is driving people to lie about their age. It is a major challenge for us, because you may not have the name of that particular person and, obviously, we do have records. So you would have to go back and probe to find out exactly what the position is.

When you come back to the person to show them the correct date of birth which is reflected on their ID, they then go to public representatives and solicit support and intervention. I just want to alert hon members that, as we assist people in our constituencies, this is one issue that we need to pay attention to, because it is beginning to create a big problem for us.

Hon Madlala-Magubane, you mentioned that the mobile units are not enough. I agree with you. But I also need to remind hon members that the mobile units are not a permanent solution to the problems and challenges that we have of infrastructure in the country. A mobile unit is not even an investment. As we all know, you cannot invest in buying a car; you invest in proper immovable property. We have tried our best to secure as many mobile units as possible. We now have a total of 109 mobile units. The truth of the matter is that the challenge for us is to begin to ensure that there are service points, and proper functioning offices and multipurpose community centres that are built by government to ensure that services are rendered.

For now, we have been using the mobile units as a stop-gap measure, in view of the crisis which we have been confronted with. The challenge again is the role of the Members of Parliament. What should our role be as public representatives in ensuring that the mobile units reach the most remote areas of our country? When we took a decision to introduce these mobile units we thought that we could actually deploy them to areas which are, for example, 30 km away from the nearest office. Mme Vilakazi is correct when she says you see them around in areas where there is a service point or an office, because people do not want to go to remote areas.

The challenge to all of us is monitoring. As Minister and Deputy Minister and director-general, we will not know that these mobile units are not properly utilised for the purpose we had in mind. We are empowered to deal with this particular issue. You are also empowered to go to all the offices of the department, because you should also remember that we do not have the MECs. So another challenge is the monitoring of managers in the provinces regarding whether they are doing their work properly or not.

If I may say this about these mobile units: There is a very sad story about these units. We had very good political will when we decided to have these mobile units. Some of the challenges that we have been confronted with are drivers who will drive a mobile unit into a tree, and in that way damage the satellite dish. You will have a situation where the computers in the mobile unit get damaged because the kind of person who is managing or running that mobile unit is not well equipped to use the computer.

My view now, and I think the director-general will support this when we discuss this particular matter, is that we probably need to have a manager who will be dedicated to monitoring the utilisation of these mobile units, because one of the biggest challenge that we have had was that when we took a decision and started manufacturing these mobile units, provinces did not work on a plan of how these mobile units would be distributed and deployed. Also, our own management at head office did not even work out a plan on how we would maintain those mobile units and even whether we have drivers for those mobile units. These are some of the challenges.

You will find that you send a certain number of mobile units to a particular area, but they get stuck there because there is no driver as there was no plan. We probably need to have somebody who can start managing and also monitor the log books of these mobile units so that they are not abused.

Mrs Witbooi, I am very glad that you support the matter which I raised regarding the media yesterday, because already, in the media, some children activists are saying they are shocked about the priorities of government and so on - total insensitivity. One of the reasons why I am saying we should contemplate doing this is that it would assist people to trace missing children, because the fingerprints do not change.

Ungakhula uze uguge, ngisho ube ngakanani, kodwa uma wanyatheliswa iminwe useyingane lokho kuyohlala kunjalo. [You can grow as old as you can be, but if your fingerprints were taken whilst you were still young, they do not change, they stay the same.]

In the case of missing children and murdered children, at least we will have a database of fingerprints for those children so that we are able to trace those children again. It is not as if we do not have criminal children. We do have children who have committed the worst kinds of crimes – children who have raped, children who have murdered, as we have heard from the Minister of Correctional Services.

I believe that it is important that as children enter schools we should take their fingerprints to assist society to deal with some of the challenges that we are confronted with. We will be happy at the point when we come to hon members to say: “Please give us the support where you can, because this is for genuine and good reasons regarding South Africans.” If there is failure on the part of some people to appreciate the extent of the challenges which we have in the country, then it is a major challenge to our society.

Mrs Vilakazi also raised the fact that the resources from the National Treasury are not enough. Resources cannot be enough, but I want to say, on behalf of the department, that our appreciation goes to the Minister of Finance for the support he has been giving to us as we are going through this process, also regarding the amount of resources deployed to a point where we even have money which is readily available to secure a new passport machine.

We have had a passport machine which has not been able to deal with the challenge of the number of passports which we have to produce. It’s a machine that we have had to cease using for a certain number of hours so that it could cool down. But now the kind of machine we are securing before the end of this year will produce more or less 40 000 passports per day. We have seen it in action and we are happy that what we are trying to do will improve the quality of the services that we render.

Hon Van Heerden, at some point we launched what we used to call a permanent registration campaign. It still remains permanent. I think all of us have a challenge of going out to popularise this campaign of educating our people about the importance of registration. It should be known that you exist in the country. We should not wait until election time before we encourage people to register. I have taken note of the proposal which you have made that, perhaps, the voters’ roll should be derived from the population register. I have noted that particular issue.

The hon Hendrickse raised the issue of the deportation processes - the inhumane conditions under which illegal migrants are kept. I can only say, and repeatedly, because I have said this before: I invite members to visit Lindela. We are trying to demystify what is happening there. There was a time when Lindela was not open to the public and media. It was only in 2005 that Lindela was opened to both the public and the media. Any time you let us know, we will allow you to go to Lindela so that when you speak on these matter you can say, “We have observed the following things.”

It should not only end there. I think it is also important for members of the select committee to take a ride with the people as we are deporting them to Zimbabwe, so that you can begin to appreciate the extent of the challenges we are confronted with, namely that as you deport people to Zimbabwe, already people are at the border working out ways of going back into South Africa. As the train arrives back in South Africa, some of them may already be back in the country ahead of that train. These are some of the practical challenges that we are confronted with.

My view is that even to set up more repatriation centres in the country is not going to help. There must come a time in the country when we have to look into this particular issue and probably review the policy. A lot of money is spent on accommodation, on maintenance and transportation of these illegal immigrants. All that we have been preaching to them is, “Please, find ways of legalising your stay in South Africa. Don’t come in illegally.” The challenge of illegal migration is going to continue, colleagues.

We do have asylum seekers from Zimbabwe. But, if you interact with some of the illegal immigrants from Zimbabwe, you will find that they are in fact economic migrants and all they want is a quick job to earn money and go back to feed their families. We need to talk about those challenges, because they cannot be challenges for the Department of Home Affairs. At some point we need to do a lot of soul searching and we have to take drastic decisions which are going to assist.

We are talking about economic integration in the region and free movement of people. So, the attitude of the South African population must begin to change to be in line with the challenges that this country is confronted with. There is economic stability here and there is political stability. So we are a pull factor on the continent. We are pulling people; we are a magnet which attracts a lot of these economic migrants, obviously because of our own economic stability. People just want to come in to seek jobs and to them it does not matter how they secure the documents, they try their best. I have seen many of them passing through Lindela. I recognised some faces from the previous visits.

So it’s a challenge and I don’t think it is a challenge for the Department of Home Affairs alone. It is a challenge about which we should engage in a public discourse - a public debate which will focus on this specific matter: How are we going to deal with this issue of illegal migration?

Lastly, I want to reply to Ntate Tolo, the commissar. By the way, when I refer to him as the commissar, I mean “my commissar”. The commissar has raised the issue of the hours of work. Even on this matter, it is you colleagues, as the public representatives, who should be monitoring this. We declared a policy in 2005 that our hours in our offices are extended to 18:00 to enable people who are workers to come back from work and still access our services, but it is not happening in all the offices. I will not know and the director-general will not know, unless somebody has his or her ears to the ground to monitor what is happening in a particular area. We have extended our opening days to include Saturdays.

As I am sitting here, as Minister, I rely on the report that I receive from managers. It is the responsibility of all of us as public representatives to establish wherever there is an office of the Department of Home Affairs, whether that office does open on Saturdays. We take policy decisions, we outline them and we give directives to top management. If there is no implementation of this, please feel free to come back and let us know so that we can deal with these challenges.

The last issue, which was also raised by the commissar, relates to the distribution of IDs, where people have visited offices and discovered that there is a stack of IDs. People then lie to you and say a certain number of documents were distributed during that particular month, but when you walk into the office and open the cupboards you will find some IDs. It is a problem about the quality of people in our management as well as their integrity. For me, dishonesty is just lack of integrity.

I think it is proper when you at least say, “We have not been able to distribute these documents for the following reasons.” In that case, we can deal with that situation, but when you say that you do not have backlogs and you have distributed everything and then you discover later that in fact there are IDs, that is not right. These are things that hon members can assist us to deal with.

Hon members, you have heard me saying that one of the things we intend to do is that this turnaround should look at service level agreements with some of the contractors or service providers who are providing a service to us. One of those should be the Post Office. We have an agreement with the Post Office to conduct distribution and delivery of these IDs. My view is that one of the service level agreements that we have to review is that particular one, because one needs to ask this question: To what extent is it helping us to get these IDs to our people? It could be that they reach the people, but do they reach them timeously or does it take a month, in which case we may as well have kept the IDs in our offices?

There are many offices that are collecting a lot of revenue. You hear one day that there has been a robbery in an office in Pretoria, but when you check the amount that has been taken, you find that the problem is money not having been banked for a particular number of days. This happens while we have service providers who are supposed to do that job, that is collect the money and deposit it.

The importance of reviewing some of the service level agreements regarding very critical institutions and companies has become one of our priorities. My view is that we need Sars to come in and take the responsibility of collecting money and doing the banking. It is not the core function of the Department of Home Affairs to do those kinds of things.

These are challenges which are completely practical and tangible problems that we have and we need collective wisdom in dealing with them. Such problems can’t be the responsibility of a Minister, a Deputy Minister or a director-general; they are about all of us engaging in a debate which will take the department forward. Somebody said, for instance, that some trucks are not searched at Beit Bridge. It is the responsibility of Customs to do that, and not immigration. But you know, everything, every ill you find at a port of entry, can only be passed on to the Department of Home Affairs. Of course, you cannot refuse to take responsibility. We work as a cluster in government. You can only take responsibility and find ways of improving this situation.

Hon members, I thank you very much. Maybe, hon Hendrickse, I should have responded to this issue of quota lists which you are concerned about. These quota lists that we publish yearly really allow people, as I said earlier on, to apply for work permits without securing a job. It is about the attraction of skills into the country. It may be possible that at some point people may feel strongly that this must come under review, but it is one way of dealing with the challenge of scarce and critical skills in the country, that is we distribute, publicise and popularise these quota lists so that people can then apply for the work permits.

The challenge to you is: Help us to do it. Maybe at some point we would have to look at the merits and the demerits of having such a quota list and whether it is indeed taking the county forward. But for now, the take-up last year was not good. Even the previous year was not good. So, the reasons why we are appealing to you to assist us in popularising these quota lists is because we would want to attract many skilled foreigners to come in and assist in the reconstruction of our country.

Ndiyabulela kakhulu koogxa bam. [Kwaqhwatywa.] [Let me express my sincere gratitude to my colleagues. [Applause.]]

Debate concluded.

The Council adjourned at 11:34. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS:

National Council of Provinces

The Chairperson

Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bill passed and transmitted

(1)     Bill passed by National Assembly on 7 June 2007 and transmitted
     for concurrence:


     (a)     Municipal Fiscal Powers and Functions Bill [B 9B – 2007]
          (National Assembly – sec 75)


     The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Finance of
     the National Council of Provinces.

TABLINGS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Minister of Home Affairs

(a)     Employment Equity Report of the Department of Home Affairs for
     2007-2008, in terms of section 21(2) of the Employment Equity Act,
     1998 (Act No 55 of 1998).

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