WEDNESDAY, 13 JUNE 2007 __

          PROCEEDINGS OF THE NATIONAL COUNCIL OF PROVINCES
                                ____

The Council met at 14:00.

The Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.

ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.

                          NOTICES OF MOTION

Mr M A SULLIMAN: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move at the next sitting of the House:

That the Council –

1) notes that, in his address to the Council during the debate on the
   Transport Budget Vote on 6 June 2007, the Minister of Transport, the
   hon. Mr Jeff Radebe, indicated that –


   (a)  an amount of R41 million has been allocated between 2007 and
       2010 to increase and facilitate the movement of passengers and
       cargo in the Northern Cape province; and


   (b)  R33 million of this amount will be spent in Upington and R8
       million in Kimberley;


2) acknowledges that such an investment will contribute significantly
   towards expanding economic activities in the Northern Cape province;
   and

(3) takes this opportunity to congratulate the hon Radebe on his continued commitment to invest in advancing the lives of the people of the Northern Cape province, who for many years were subjected to neglect and underdevelopment by the apartheid government.

Me H LAMOELA: Ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag sal voorstel:

Dat die Raad -

(1) benewens die feit dat gesondheidsorg groot tekorte van professionele gesondheidswerkers ondervind, ook kennis neem dat —

   (a)  kontrakteurs projekte aanvaar vir die bou van hospitale —met
        verwysing na die Eben Dönges—hospitaal te Worcester in die
        Breederiviervallei — en dan groot probleme ondervind met
        vaardigheidstekorte wat werk van swak gehalte tot gevolg het;
        en


   (b)  die toedrag van sake vertragings in die voltooiing van hospitale
        veroorsaak en uiters nadelig is vir die lewering van
        toeganglike gehaltegesondheidsorg, veral op die platteland; en

(2) dus ’n beroep doen op die LUR van Gesondheid vir die provinsie Wes- Kaap om in te gryp en te verseker dat tenders in die toekoms toegeken word aan kontrakteurs wat gehaltewerk binne beperkte tydsduur kan lewer. (Translation of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)

[Ms H LAMOELA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move on the next sitting day of the House:

That the Council -

(1) in addition to the fact that huge shortages in professional health workers are experienced, also notes that –

     a) contractors accept projects for the building of hospitals –
        with reference to the Eben Dönges Hospital at Worcester in the
        Breede River Valley – and then experience problems with skills
        shortages resulting in poor quality work; and


     b) the state of affairs causes delays in the completion of
        hospitals and is extremely detrimental to the rendering of
        accessible quality health care, especially in rural areas; and

(2) therefore urges the MEC of Health for the province of the Western Cape to intervene and ensure that tenders will in future be awarded to contractors who can deliver quality work in a limited space of time.]

Mr M A MZIZI: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that I shall move on the next sitting day of this House on behalf of the IFP:

That the Council –

(1) notes that prosecutors have declined to prosecute a wheelchair-bound man who allegedly shot dead a criminal who attempted to hijack his vehicle at gunpoint;

(2) further notes that criminals in this country are totally out of control and do not show care or respect for anybody, as they commit acts of violence and crime against anyone; and

(3) realises that unless drastic measures are taken to curb the excessively high crime levels and restore high morals and values, we are facing a very bleak future.

Mr S SHICEKA: Chair, I wanted to raise the issue of the constitutionality and legality of the motion by hon Mzizi about killings and so on. He comes from my province, but I think the motion is illegal and unconstitutional.

The CHAIPERSON OF THE NCOP: Very well, I will go through that motion. I will have the power, as the Chairperson of the Council, to look into the motion. I will do so.

                        ATTACK ON SCHOOLGIRL

                         (Draft Resolution) Ms D ROBINSON: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council –

 1) notes with concern that -


    a) a schoolgirl in Atlantis was stabbed by a fellow  learner  while
       her teacher, who participated in the strike, was not present  in
       the classroom;


    b) the sick and injured are being  turned  away  from  clinics  and
       hospitals;


    c) this strike mainly affects the poor and vulnerable, who have  no
       alternatives;

 2) conveys its condolences to the families who have been bereaved; and


3) calls upon the government and the unions to reach a solution in order
   to end the paralysis of service delivery.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                   WORLD DAY AGAINST CHILD LABOUR

                         (Draft Resolution)

Ms M P THEMBA: Chairperson, I move without notice:

That the Council –

(1) notes that –

   (a)  yesterday, 12 June, was World Day Against Child Labour, which is
       celebrated by 180 Members States of the International Labour
       Organisation, including South Africa;


   (b)  this day is aimed at mobilising people around the world against
       child labour and its worst forms;


   (c)  this year the World Day Against Child Labour focuses on the
       elimination of child labour in agriculture, which is estimated
       to employ over 100 million girls and boys aged five to 14 years
       old, of whom over 50 million are in sub-Saharan Africa;

(2) while acknowledging the progress that South Africa has made in reducing child labour, there are still an estimated total of 4,8 million child labourers between the ages of five and 17 working in the various sectors of the South African economy; and

(3) takes this opportunity to urge our communities, particularly the business community and those in farms and rural areas, to act against this atrocity and report it to the relevant authorities.

Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.

                     SCHEDULE RELATING TO GIFTS

                         (Draft Resolution)

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, I move the motion printed in my name on the Order Paper, as follows:

That, subject to the concurrence of the National Assembly, item 8(f) of the Schedule to the Joint Rules of Parliament, relating to gifts and hospitality, be amended to read as follows:

1. (f) Gifts and hospitality:

         i) A description and the value and source of a gift with a
            value in excess of R1500;
   
   
        ii) A description and the value of gifts from a single source
            which cumulatively exceed the value of R1500 in any
            calendar year; and
   
   
       iii) Hospitality intended as a gift in kind.
   

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Order! I shall now put the question. The question is that the motion be agreed to. As this decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I need to ascertain very clearly whether delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their provinces’ vote. Are all delegation heads present?

I shall now also allow provinces the opportunity to make their declaration in terms of Rule 71 if they so wish.

We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?

Mr A T MANYOSI: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Free State?

Mr T S SETONA: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Gauteng?

Ms N M MADLALA-MAGUBANE: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: KwaZulu-Natal?

Mr Z C NTULI: KwaZulu-Natal e lethu. [KwaZulu-Natal in favour.] The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Limpopo? Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Siyavuma. [In favour.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Mpumalanga?

Mr B J MKHALIPHI: Mpumalanga iyavuma. [Mpumalanga supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Northern Cape?

Mr C M GOEIEMAN: In favour.

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: North West?

Mr A J L MOSEKI: Bokone Bophirima e a dumela. [North West supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Western Cape?

Mr N J MACK: Wes-Kaap ondersteun. [Western Cape supports.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: All provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.

                         APPROPRIATION BILL


                           (Policy debate)

Vote No 27 – Housing:

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Chairperson, hon members of the NCOP, allow me to acknowledge and congratulate our new MEC for Housing in Mpumalanga the hon Mashego-Dlamini in her position and welcome her here as the MEC for Housing. [Applause.]

And so again, we come to the House to request that you accept and endorse our budget; to account for what we have done regarding that which you approved last year and to inform you of what we intend to do with the allocation that we hope you will approve today. As we begin our cycle of life across the length and breadth of our country, the inspiration to deliver on the hopes of our people reverberates, awakening in us the spirit of a new nation. It binds us all who so many years ago stood at opposite ends, driven by a common goal to achieve a life sustained by that which is most basic to life: shelter, security and comfort. This exciting epoch cannot end until the objective of providing all our people with shelter has been completed, but for now, the budget.

The total allocation to provinces in terms of the Integrated Human Settlement Development Grant has grown from R6,8 billion in the 2006-07 financial year, to R8,2 billion in 2007-08, at an annual growth of 19,5%. Hopefully it will grow to R9,9 billion in 2008-09 and it is expected to reach R11,5 billion in 2009. Last year, hon members will remember, we were allocated R6,8 billion. I am happy to announce that six provinces have spent 98% of their budgets, with the roll-overs in the other three provinces being the result of scarcity of building materials and, therefore, delays in construction and other nonrecurrent administrative problems. We have greatly improved our monitoring capacity and we are certain that we will further reduce the incidence of roll-overs.

A new allocation formula that was approved by the housing Minmec towards the end of 2005 has been implemented in phases with the understanding that the department will implement an increase in the baseline allocation at 6%. This funding framework includes an initiative to top up funds in order to address national priority housing projects. For the current financial year, Zanemvula in the Eastern Cape and the N2 Gateway Project in the Western Cape have been identified as these national projects. It is expected that full implementation of this concept will take place during the 2009-10 financial year.

The framework for the implementation of priority projects, including the criteria that will guide project selection, is in the process of being finalised and it reflects that funds are ring-fenced by National Treasury for priority projects. To maximise housing delivery, we would like to prioritise mega projects, such as we have done at the N2 Gateway and Zanemvula. This instrument will allow the department to focus on optimising housing delivery while contributing to the achievement of the broader goals of the comprehensive plan. It will allow us to transform human settlements from the dormitory suburbs of the past to truly integrated urban suburbs that will have a more positive impact in addressing the nation’s housing needs.

A right to housing, as interpreted from our Constitution, indicates that it is not only the state which is responsible for the provision of housing, but the other agents within our society, including individuals, must also be enabled by legislative and other measures to provide housing.

This is what we have done, being inspired by the good spirit prevailing within the environment of our social contract. We conducted negotiations with developers and other stakeholders over the past year to ensure that we would collectively develop an inclusionary housing policy, which we talked about last year. It was a careful process, somewhat prolonged, at times flaring up in the open, but generally one that recognised how the burden of the dysfunctionality of apartheid spatial planning continues to impact negatively on the poor, and this needs changing with immediate effect.

The policy has now been drafted and enjoys the support of all our major stakeholders. The policy will be implemented in stages and will culminate in legislative measures by the end of the year.

It is worth stressing at this point that the policy we have developed is only one instrument, and that in order to counter segregated or exclusionist outcomes of our built environment processes, we will need several other tools to change our legacy.

Last year at this time, I was reminded of our urgent responsibility by the ghostly grip of winter and so we pledged to fast-track delivery. We have found that the major impediment in accelerating delivery is our bureaucracy and its inefficiencies, coupled with severe capacity deficiencies at all levels, but especially at the local level. Research undertaken by, amongst others, the Banking Association has revealed that perhaps the most serious obstacles to speeding up housing delivery is the time it takes to process development applications for new projects. We have been working towards a solution that would see the streamlining of all administrative processes so that we can cut waiting time by 50%.

We are greatly indebted to Partners for Housing, a section 21 company chaired by Ms Wendy Lucas-Bull and financed by four major banks. This entity has worked on analysing the processes followed within local authorities. The aim was to help identify and remove obstacles that cause delays and to define how current processes could be changed to achieve the desired 50% efficiency improvement. The City of Tshwane volunteered to serve as a pilot site for the project. The results in learning have exceeded all our expectations and have been documented so that we can take the lessons and make them available to other municipalities.

We are indebted to Partners for Housing because through the structure we were indeed able to cut by 50% the housing delivery processes. We will be sharing the re-engineering processes with other local authorities.

Every time we’ve been in this House, we have been sensitised by hon members here to the unacceptable standard of work in our low-cost housing projects. This has been a major concern to us as well. Hon members would be aware that for the delivery of what we then referred to as RDP housing, the state depended largely on developers and contractors. In the budget statement for the financial year 2005-06 I reported to hon members that, as a result of this delivery framework, what the state and the people were provided with was shoddy work and in some instances incomplete houses. Poor communities felt that government was not exercising its powers adequately to protect them against these delinquent contractors. Coupled with the fact that government itself sometimes was negligent of its responsibilities to pay on time, a great deal of shoddy work from both unscrupulous contractors and inexperienced ones became a blot on our record. To put an end to this, developers and contractors will now have to adhere to newly developed norms and standards that came into effect on 1 April

1. Effectively this means that Breaking New Ground houses will be quality houses, consisting of 40 square metres of gross floor area; two bedrooms; a separate bathroom with a toilet, shower and hand basin; a separate kitchen living area with a kitchen basin; and a ready board for electrical installations. [Applause.]

In order to maintain these standards we have accordingly adjusted the subsidy quantum from R36 000 to R38 000, and I am calling on other related departments to assist us in ensuring that we can deliver quality houses. We are also in the process of establishing an inspectorate that will work with and enhance the work of the National Homebuilders Registration Council and enforce the new norms and standards. Developers will also, as part of the revised National Housing Code, be required to sell to the state houses that they have built whose quality they can vouch for. Henceforth the state will only buy quality.

To enhance quality of life, we are looking into regulating on energy- efficient houses. We are in consultation with various departments to work on this. When we have calculated availability of materials and cost factors, we hope that we can come here next year and indicate that BNG houses will, in addition to all the good things that I have indicated, perhaps have solar energy. We will support these changes with the introduction this year of the Housing Development Agency that will identify and facilitate the rapid release of well-located land for integrated housing and human settlements. The Bill to establish the agency is in process of being submitted for consideration by Cabinet. Further to the introduction of the Housing Development Agency we will introduce planning cycles to ensure greater efficiency in housing delivery.

I am pleased to announce that a more user-friendly manual for the development of sustainable human settlements has been approved by MinMec, which will further facilitate the delivery of housing. This manual provides all the housing policies and implementation guidelines to ensure that the comprehensive plan is carried out.

New and exciting housing development options are included in the revised code. The new Integrated Residential Development Programme provides a mechanism for a holistic development orientation, giving effect to the government’s objectives to achieve integrated human settlement development. The programme provides for a phased development approach and is based on the entire need of an area or community and facilitates the provision of serviced stands for all the required land uses.

The programme will also address the concerns regarding the affordability of residential properties for the low-and middle-income categories, as it will provide stands for the entire spectrum of the need.  The banking sector will also benefit, as stands for the new finance-linked individual subsidies will also be provided.

In a major breakthrough this year, and as part of our social contract, we have had very fruitful negotiations with rural stakeholders to create a rural housing policy that will enjoy the support of all. The rural housing policy was workshopped at the rural housing indaba held in the Eastern Cape which brought together Contralesa, the chairpersons of the National House of Traditional Leaders and organised agriculture to assist in removing obstacles in the delivery of houses in the rural areas. A policy which incorporates the inputs received will be finalised during the third quarter of 2007.  A pivotal element of this was the use of sustainable technologies and housing typologies that are in tune with the rural environment.

We want to take this opportunity to thank all the stakeholders who made this workshop such a resounding success.  We anticipate that we will be signing the social contract with our rural partners next year, committing ourselves to certain desired and measurable outcomes.

We know that our input would be meaningless to some members here unless it touches on a very sensitive issue of hostel upgrades. [Laughter.] The existing Public Sector Hostels Upgrading Programme, which was used to effect only cosmetic improvements to dilapidated hostels, has been revised and is now called the Community Residential Unit Programme.  This programme provides a holistic, integrated development approach towards residential units and, in addition, provides more appropriate funding mechanisms and tenure arrangements for turning hostels around. I need to say that perhaps, hon members, my department needs to ensure that we can fast-track this. It is not possible for us, 13 years down the line, to live with the kind of conditions that we have. [Applause.]

Before you come here, hon Mzizi, I would like to offer our sincerest apologies for any of our shortfalls, but we will deal with this matter and we know how passionate you are about it. When I come here next year, please do not allow me to speak until I have lived up to my promises. Chairperson, I realise that my speaking time is almost used up. [Applause.]

The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Just continue, hon Minister.

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Our sincerest gratitude is also extended to another important partner – the European Union.  The Social Housing Policy and the guidelines for its implementation have been approved for implementation.  To date, 52 776 social housing units have been provided in collaboration with the EU, but the EU’s involvement unfortunately comes to a close. I want to express our sincere thanks to them for their assistance with this programme. Importantly also, we note that the Social Housing Bill is now the subject of parliamentary processes.

A Housing Beneficiary Education Programme, which was initially piloted in four provinces during the 2005-06 financial year, has now been rolled out to all the provinces. More than 1 200 field trainers have been trained who are now building capacity of housing beneficiaries and communities on aspects such as their roles and responsibilities in owning a house, tenure matters, how to gain access to government’s housing subsidies, etc. This programme will continue into the 2007-08 financial year.

In view of the important role municipalities must fulfil in increasing the delivery of housing, the department has embarked on a programme to build the knowledge and capacity of municipal councillors on housing-related matters. A desk-top handbook, as well as training material for this purpose, has been developed and the training of councillors will commence in the 2007-08 financial year.

I need your protection as I proceed to this particular point, Chairperson. The accreditation of 16 priority municipalities involving the devolution of the housing function to these municipalities has already begun with the intention of elaborating capacity enhancements and institutional restructuring of municipalities. To date, all 16 municipalities that we have involved have received level one accreditation and are gearing up to level two and three accreditation, depending of course on the output and the affordability of these municipalities.

My department, together with the MECs, has been restructuring this and we will have a hard look at this matter and we would like to advise that perhaps we were too optimistic that we would progress to accreditation, because the level of capacity in these municipalities is abysmal. We would like your permission to allow us to stop at a particular time, look back and see if we are in fact going in the right direction. We need you to support us, because municipalities are very eager to get their full accreditation and this is understandable, because this is what we hoped we would do. We, however, needed to ensure that we do this responsibly.

My department has now restructured itself and a dedicated unit will focus on the service delivery support function by supporting provinces and municipalities with the upgrading of informal settlements and supporting provinces in the unblocking of housing projects. The upgrading of informal settlement projects and the unblocking of blocked projects have become a priority as part of our delivery strategy for the coming year.

In respect of local government’s requirement to develop credible IDPs, and specific to the creation of sustainable human settlements, there is a need to align housing delivery plans at all levels, and these should form the basis for accurate targeting and budget allocations.

It is therefore worth noting that, in response to the needs expressed on the ground and the directive issued in the comprehensive plan, we have now developed a programme for the development of municipal IDPs. In addition, the department has approved a new housing planning dispensation that in essence seeks to provide a strategic plan at provincial and national level in respect of housing development planning.

The comprehensive plan places a fair amount of emphasis on demand responsiveness as opposed to supply-driven state-assisted housing.  In order to respond to demand and provide sustainable human settlements, proper planning is required. More specifically, the comprehensive plan requires that the development of housing chapters of municipal IDPs include, among others, a municipal housing needs assessment, and a link to provincial multiyear implementation plans. It is therefore worth noting that the department, in response to this has created these norms and standards and we need to ensure that municipalities are aware of this.

The rapid release of well-located land for integrated housing is one of the cornerstones for the success of the comprehensive plan and the creation of integrated communities with convenient access to social and economic opportunities requires well-located suitable land close to economic activities.

As mandated by Cabinet in 2006, the department has begun a process to establish a housing development agency as I have indicated and we hope that next year it will be fully functional. During this year, the rationalisation of the housing entities will be finalised. The People’s Housing Partnership Trust will work close together with Servcon. However, those in the employ of these entities will be rationalised into the new entities. In addition, the mandates of all three housing finance institutions, i.e. the Rural Housing Loan Fund, National Urban Reconstruction and Housing Agency, or Nurcha, and the NHFC will be reviewed in terms of the National Treasury Development Finance Institutions review process.

Now, for the crunch of the budget, the following is our allocation to the provinces for the 2007-08 financial year. Firstly, the Eastern Cape gets R1,052 billion; the Free State R653,3 million; Gauteng R2,197 billion; KwaZulu-Natal R1,310 billion; Limpopo is allocated R651 million; Mpumalanga is given R526,3 million; Northern Cape gets R130,9 million; North West is allocated R766,8 million; and the Western Cape is allocated R948,5 million. The total allocation of these amounts for housing for the financial year is R8,238 billion. As per allocation formula, Gauteng province still remains the highest in the allocation, receiving close to R2,2 billion, with the poor, sparsely populated Northern Cape province being the lowest at R131 million.

In closing, I want to thank the Chairperson for his support and for putting on the agenda of this House the very important discussion that happened here earlier on in the year about the constitutional responsibility of the national and provincial governments, ultimately to provide guidance on policy in the issue of housing delivery, and this was an important discussion around the N2. I was not here, but I’m told that it was a very successful debate and I would like to thank the House for allowing us to bring the debate here. I thank you very much. [Applause.]

Mr R J TAU: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon MECs, hon members and comrades, it is always a pleasure to participate in this kind of debate, in particular the policy debate on housing. Of particular interest is the fact that in our last policy debate in 2006, as a committee we raised a lot of challenges that we felt very strongly needed to be addressed by the department.

We have thus noticed or observed a lot of improvement, of course, notwithstanding some of the issues that have been raised by the provinces.

It is worth noting again that in most of the provinces we went to during our oversight work we have also noticed an aggressive programme of unblocking the blocked projects. This highlights the extent to which the ANC is consistent with the programme of advancing and deepening the national democratic revolution through its programmes. This debate is but one among such policies. As we engage with the housing policy debate, we cannot do that without locating it within the context of reconstruction and development of our people’s lives. This debate is further located within the content of availability of land for housing, water for sanitation, skills for the construction of houses, co-operatives especially for women, and for the socialisation of capital, therefore calling for an integrated approach.

It must also be further understood that, as an instrument of deracialisation, we need to deracialise the ownership patterns in the development and support of new and emerging contractors. Of course, as stated in our strategy and tactics, all this cannot come without a struggle. Consistent with that line of argument, in our understanding as expressed in the Freedom Charter that there shall be housing, security and comfort, it is this defining character that has always made us understand that housing cannot be seen in isolation of addressing the socioeconomic conditions of our people. Therefore, the ANC’s approach to housing should never be seen out of that particular context but rather as an all-inclusive process of addressing the socioeconomic conditions of the poor and, most importantly, the working class and the rural masses.

Hon members will remember that back in 1994, our approach in the main was to provide shelter for our people. We did it with the understanding that our people had to be socially and morally reconstructed. We understood at the time that housing was a base to construct families and that by so doing we were building a nation starting with the family through the provision of a roof and a sense of privacy and honour.

It is worth noting that in some provinces there is an uncompromising approach to construct housing using the principles of the Expanded Public Works Programme. I deliberately choose not to mention those provinces but I do make the point that especially through the unblocking of blocked projects, we have seen some provinces opting for construction companies rather than the labour- intensive approach to the construction of these houses.

We raise this, hon Minister, through you Chairperson, because we believe that a year after its launch in all our provinces, there is a well- developed capacity of skills that have been transferred to our people, ready to be used in the building industry - thus the Expanded Public Works Programme.

We are well aware that not everything will come easy or without any challenges. We, however, want to raise the same problem we raised in our last debate, namely the extent to which we utilise our intergovernmental relations to improve on our work, so as not to impose ourselves on our sister departments. I am saying this by illustrating an example of a municipality we visited called Phokwane. That municipality is newly co- opted into the Northern Cape, and was previously in North West. One of the problems that the municipality is faced with is the extent to which the province can assist it in providing housing, because they do not have land. The land that they have is communal land. With such a process in terms of the principles of intergovernmental relations, we have seen the provincial government and the Department of Land Affairs coming together, buying land for the municipality. Together with the provincial department they were able to construct houses for human settlement in the Phokwane Municipality.

We therefore thank Land Affairs for that kind of approach in assisting so that this kind of problem can be resolved. This is unlike in the Eastern Cape, in the Nelson Mandela Metro, where we came across a situation where the municipality in actual fact identified prime land with walls. They put that land on auction for private developers and relocated the people from that piece of land further away from the centre of economic development. I am raising this precisely because we have raised it with the municipality and the province and we could see that clearly the understanding of working together is just not there and there is a need for improvement in that particular area.

The Breaking New Ground Programme by the department is one illustration of how the movement of the people is capable of building a truly nonracial, nonsexist and democratic society. The Cosmo project in Gauteng is a typical example of how communities can be brought together with such a project, thereby breaking the racial, cultural and ethnic and the class barriers that exist in our society, as brought about by apartheid.

The N2 Gateway and many other such programmes in all our provinces present a direct response to the clarion call made in 1912 with the formation of the ANC when the then President, the late Pixley Ka Isaka Seme, called on all tribes and ethnic groups to unite and build an organisation that would in the main give leadership to a united society.

We have, however, noted that in the Northern Cape, again as an example, for its two identified pilot projects, the province is expected to raise funds from its fiscus for the Breaking New Ground project. Of course, the Minister illustrated that clearly through the allocation to the Northern Cape. I think that the committee feels strongly that we need to bring to the attention of the department to assist not only the Northern Cape, but also other provinces that might have similar problems of not being able to raise enough resources to implement the process.

We take note of the fact that June is youth month; it is with that understanding that we believe that, in particular, housing has a programme that will engage young people of this country in productive activities. With that understanding, we note that the Department of Public Works has a programme for youth in the built environment linked to the issue raised earlier around the infusion of EPWP principles in the work of the department. We believe that with the skills that young people will learn from this Public Works programme we can further develop these young people and ensure that entities that fall under the Department of Housing, with a mandate of constructing houses, will tap into this skill that had been developed in this process.

Chairperson and comrades, let me thank the department for a very wonderful thing that has happened. Something had been worrying me for a very long time and we were very disappointed, but, hon Minister, with that wonderful advert that is being shown on TV I think it is quite appealing in explaining to our people the kind of progress that we have made as South Africa in the provision of housing for our people and serving them.

And lastly, let me take the opportunity to thank the Minister and the department and therefore exercise the mandate as given to me by the committee to vote for the acceptance of this budget. Thank you. [Applause.]

Mr G R KRUMBOCK: Chairperson, hon Minister and hon members, in an open opportunity society individuals must be afforded the greatest possible space to strive to achieve their aspirations and thereby reach their full potential. It is difficult to envisage how this may be accomplished without the security and shelter that a home affords. Moreover, a home confers dignity on an individual and families, a root into the community, a sense of place and belonging and the confidence to enter successfully into the race of life.

In this sense, the DA in broad terms wholeheartedly supports the government’s drive to extend housing to all our people, and we unreservedly wish the Minister and her department every success in achieving these worthwhile objectives.

It must be acknowledged that government has matched its good intentions with the required funding. The housing budget in 2003 amounted to R2,4 billion. This year, it is almost R8,9 billion, very close to the R9,5 billion the Minister is anticipating for 2008-09. So the problem is not intent or lack of finance. The problem rather is a series of inefficient, ineffective and uneconomical practices which bedevil those very good intentions.

The Auditor-General reports that there has been poor control over the allocation of housing subsidies, including no evidence that beneficiaries had qualified for subsidies, duplicate subsidies and over R300 million’s worth of subsidies paid out to non-government employees. The second major problem the Auditor-General identified was poor administration and management of housing projects, which included an inability to collect debts and rentals owed to the department, VAT evasion and a lack of accounting, asset management and monitoring procedures due to poor record- keeping to name only a few. At some stage – and I believe we have already reached this point – we have to stop blaming apartheid for these failures, hold the individuals responsible accountable, and boldly take the necessary steps to ensure there is effective delivery to our people.

The N2 Gateway project was originally launched amid great fanfare, pomp and ceremony as the government’s flagship project. Again, the intentions were worthy. Thirty percent of the units were supposed to be allocated to backyarders and 70% to residents of Joe Slovo, Langa, Gugulethu, Bonteheuwel, Bokmakierie and Nyanga. Applicants had to be on the verified housing list and they had to be South African citizens and the intention, amongst others, was to transform the poverty-stricken N2 Gateway area into a model housing project.

Last year in this very debate, the MEC for Housing in the Western Cape made one of the most revolutionary and provocative speeches I have ever heard during my 8-year tenure in this august House. In response to media reports and concerns by various parties with respect to the N2 Gateway project, he taunted the opposition in this House by responding to every issue by saying “so what”. The outcome has been completely predictable: A projected R700 million cost over-run; the completion date shifted from June 2005 to October 2009 or maybe even January 2010 - 5 years later than the original deadline - just 705 units completed out of the anticipated 22 000 by June 2006; residents complaining about shoddy work and cracking of their units, a threatened rent boycott and sub-contractors downing tools claiming they had not been paid or were being short-changed. In the latter case, this is the inevitable consequence of proper contracts not having been signed in phase one in the absence of a proper policy framework. It has also been more than a year since the City of Cape called for an urgent forensic audit of the R12 million contract awarded to Cyberia Technologies in the first phase of the project for findings to be released.

I take it we are not going to be saying “so what” to the residents whose houses’ walls are cracking. The fact is, the contractors building the units should be registered with the NHBRC, and a large project such as this should only be awarded to a contractor who has graduated through the various NHBRC stages to being authorised to construct a large number of units. Something has clearly slipped through the cracks – no pun intended – and the Portfolio Committee on Housing is quite correct to seek an explanation from the NHBRC as to how this could have occurred.

I want to make it clear to this House today that quality control in the construction of the N2 Gateway project vests in the contractors rather than the City of Cape Town, and that land availability agreements had nothing to do with the delays that have afflicted this beleaguered project. Construction teams have been allowed on site, despite land availability agreements not having been signed from the outset. Delays have in fact been occasioned by price disagreements between developers and contractors, community disputes and drawn-out negotiations between the department and the community. In any event, the City of Cape Town was stripped of all responsibility for the N2 Gateway project in June last year when the national and provincial housing departments said the project was not a local competency. It is time that these departments accepted accountability for the outcome, but most importantly let us not forget that our primary focus should be the marginalised families who are supposed to be the beneficiaries. Let us learn from these problems, put them behind us, and accelerate delivery.

The Minister will be aware that my party was extremely concerned with respect to clauses 8(a) and 8(b) in the Housing Consumers Protection Measures Amendment Bill, which proposed that the NHBRC Council has the right to reduce any amount that may be expended to settle a claim, as well as make payment to the housing consumer in full and final settlement of any claim, or refuse any claim, where money was not available or “not expected to be available” for that purpose. We saw this amendment as fundamentally flawed, inasmuch as the purpose of the Bill is to protect the consumer, and when a new house is registered with the NHBRC, the owner is taking out a warranty in good faith against future defects. The Minister’s predecessor may recall that in the late 1990s I made a similar objection as a private citizen that no person should be forced to take out a monopolistic insurance policy where the insurer was not obligated to pay out in the event of a legitimate claim. Moreover, the CEO’s report in the latest NHBRC financial statements indicate the substantial financial health of the Council and the solvency of the NHBRC warranty fund.

It is therefore correct and pleasing to note that my colleague Butch Steyn has this very morning succeeded in persuading the Portfolio Committee on Housing to remove this offending clause in the amending Bill which will hopefully restore confidence to housing consumers.

Lastly, on behalf of all housing consumers who are experiencing rapidly escalating building costs and increasingly unaffordable housing, I would like to raise the issue of the NHBRC grading system once again. In my address last year I referred to the 2005 report by the CEO of the NHBRC where he disclosed that the organisation “has introduced an exciting plan as an incentive for home owners, the grading system.” I welcomed this innovation which would incentivise sound business practices, make better builders more competitive, lower the cost of homes to the benefit of our citizens and align market forces with government policy. I stated that all the regulations in this regard had been drafted, and yet a year later after the CEO’s statement in the NHBRC’s report, the grading system was still not operational. All that apparently was required was promulgation by the Minister, and I urged her to do this as soon as possible so that these very worthwhile benefits could be enjoyed by all.

I telephoned the council this morning to learn to my shock and horror that they are still waiting for the regulations to be gazetted and that consequently the grading system is still not operational. Are there any good reasons for these delays? I urge the Minister yet again to personally intervene in this matter, as year after year assurances are received, and we are informed the system is imminent, and yet nothing happens. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms K C MASHEGO-DLAMINI (Mpumalanga): Chairperson, hon Minister, my colleagues from the provincial executives, delegates and hon members of the NCOP – this is my maiden speech as an MEC for Mpumalanga. [Interjections.] As the Minister rightfully pointed out, we have made huge progress in the delivery of houses as a country. Our achievements can only be matched by a few nations - if any. In Mpumalanga we have built 111 963 housing units, thus providing houses to close to half a million families. Although this is far from being enough, as a result of the challenges that we have been facing, we can indeed be proud of what we have achieved thus far.

However, we do acknowledge that there is still a lot of work that needs to be done. Perhaps the challenges that we are faced with can best be depicted by an 88-year old Gogo Samaria Zitha of KwaDela in the Msukaligwa Municipality, who only got her house on 12 December 2006, at the end of the 16 Days of Activism Against Women and Child abuse. The tears of Gogo Zitha receiving her house will forever remain in our memories.

The province has been saddled with a number of challenges that have affected our ability to deliver houses at the rate in which we had planned. We have since identified those challenges, with the biggest one being our planning. We are changing the planning of our projects and implementing the multi-year planning approach to our projects. We believe this will enable us to make sure that when we plan we take into account the different challenges and processes that we may encounter.

One of the other challenges has been the improper beneficiary list compiled by the municipalities. To address this, we have requested all municipalities to give us their housing needs by the end of June for the planning for 2008-09. We have further set aside an amount of R100 000 per municipality to help them develop their housing chapters.

The road ahead to meeting the 2014 Millennium Development Goals of eradicating informal settlements will not be without its challenges. Informal settlements are increasing at an alarming rate in the province. Together with municipalities, we are looking at developing a provincial policy that will deal with this problem. We cannot allow the situation to go unchallenged.

We remain committed to the pledge that was made by our fellow countrymen 52 yeas ago in the Freedom Charter, where they boldly declared that there shall be housing, security and comfort for all. When we talk of “all” we mean all people - be they in rural, urban areas or even on farms. To attest to this we will also be developing agri-villages on farms, targeting both farm dwellers and labourers. Some farms have been bought by the national Department of Land Affairs whilst others have been donated by farmers.

As part of rolling out the Breaking New Ground houses through creating integrated human settlements, we have identified 10 municipalities in our province where we will be implementing these projects. We will be working with our Mpumalanga Housing Finance Company and other financial institutions.

In 2006, the department conducted a survey on socioeconomic levels and housing typology of informal settlements that revealed a very interesting result. It has shown us that not everybody needs a RDP house, but some need rental stock. This shows us that one of the biggest needs in the province is to establish housing for rental purposes. To address this need, the department has taken a decision to help municipalities to purchase land and buildings in areas that have been identified as areas for human settlement. We have also engaged the Department of Public Works to help us identify unused government land that can be used to build houses.

We have further re-aligned our housing association in the province to be registered as part of municipal entities in terms of Chapter 10 of the Local Government: Municipal Finance Management Act of 2003. We agree with the Minister that we are still faced with the challenges of poverty alleviation, access to land for housing development, access to housing finance, protection of housing consumers from substandard work and the eradication of corruption.

If we do not address these challenges, we will not succeed in our endeavours to create a better life for all our people in the province. As Mpumalanga province we therefore support the budget. Thank you, Chairperson. [Applause.]

Ms H F MATLANYANE: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon MECs, hon members and comrades, as the ANC we support the Budget Vote of the Department of Housing.

Ke nnete gore mmago ngwana o swara thipa ka bogaleng. Re bolela bjalo ka baka la gore Presidente o ile a bona go tloga kgale gore Lefapha la tša Dintlo le nyaka mosadi wa basadi. Ka gona re re o sware o tiiše. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[It is true that a woman can withstand any challenge. We say this because the President realised a long time ago that the Department of Housing requires a strong woman. We therefore urge you to continue working hard.]

In section 10 of our Constitution it says, and I quote: ``Everyone has inherent dignity and the right to have their dignity respected and protected.’’

Housing became a priority for the ANC since its inception in 1912. In 1956, at the People’s Assembly, it was declared that there will be houses, security and comfort. This also refers to the people in the rural areas in the provinces of Limpopo, Eastern Cape, KwaZulu-Natal and the others.

All people are born with dignity, pride and status. This was taken away by the apartheid regime when it passed laws that ensured that blacks are removed from their land and forced to settle in dry, neglected and barren land, far from economic activities and amenities. The department is ensuring that the people of South Africa are housed and that their status, dignity and pride are restored as real citizens of South Africa. Housing is about life, about what is good for the nation.

Ge o goletše ka ntlong ya bjang goba ka lapeng la go itlhokela, o fela o duma le go lebelela gore mohlang o gotše o kgona go itirela gape o kgona go iphatela ka tša gago diatla, o kgone go agela batswadi ba gago mokutwana; o kgone go ba agela ntlo yeo e tlago ba swanela go ya ka maemo a gago gomme go tloga moo o ye go ikagela ya gago ye borutho. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[If you grow up in a thatched house or in a poverty-stricken home, you sometimes yearn to see the day when you are a grown-up and able to work on your own to provide your parents with a decent house. It is then that you can think of building your own decent house.]

Giving people affordable housing structures is not only about bricks and mortar, hon Minister and Chairperson. It is about ensuring that all the people of South Africa experience and enjoy what owning a decent house entails. This even includes the rural provinces. It is about ensuring that commitment, loyalty and dedication are applied.

Ke ka moo, bjalo ka mmušo, re tshwenyegago ka kudu ge re bona boradikonteraka ba bangwe ba fo agela batho ba gaborena dintlo tša go tekateka tšeo di beago maphelo a bona kotsing; dintlo tšeo motho a rego ge a di lebelela a bone gabotsebotse gore di sekame. Dintlo tše bjalo ka tše di a nyamisa gomme di dira gore motho a uše sefahlego. Re ipotšiša gore batho bao ba agago dintlo tša mohuta wo ba tšwa kae, ke batho ba mohuta mang le gona ba reng ba aga dintlo tše bjalo mola ba tseba gabotsebotse gore bona ba itulela ka go tše majabajaba mo ba iketlilego gomme le go phethoga ba sa phethogego ge ba robetše. Ke ka moo, bjalo ka dikemedi tša Limpopo, re rilego ge re be re etetše diporotšeke tša dintlo ka dinagamagae gomme re hwetša go agilwe dintlo tša go swabiša, ra bona bokaone e le go bolela le balefapha la merero ya tša dintlo ka profenseng ye gore ba emaeme ba dire gore bakgekolo le bana bao ba dulago ka dintlong tšeo ba hwetša borutho le gore seriti sa bona se a hlompšhwa. (Translation of Sepedi paragraphs follows.)

[As government, we are really concerned when we see some contractors building low-quality houses which put the lives of people in danger; these houses are even crooked. These kinds of houses are disappointing. We ask ourselves where these people come from, what kind of human beings are they and why are they building these types of houses whilst they live in decent houses.

That is why, as the Limpopo delegation, when we were visiting projects for houses in the rural areas and we found that they were building poor quality houses, we saw a need to liaise with the department of housing in this province to provide decent houses for older citizens and children in order to give them dignity and pride.]

It is heartening, hon Minister and Chairperson, to report that the provincial department worked on those projects and unblocked them. Already well-established contractors have been appointed. The challenge is that Limpopo needs resources to the tune of R1 billion to do that.

In Limpopo we have established mechanisms to deal with fraud and corruption. The department has established a toll-free number and a consumer housing call centre - the first of its kind in the country - to deal with consumer problems and enquiries regarding housing issues.

Ke ka lethabo go bega gore mogala woo o a šoma gomme e bile o kgontšha badudi ba Limpopo go bega ka dipelo tšeo di lokologilego, ba tseba gore mmušo wo o etetšwego pele ke ANC o tlo ba phethela, wa dira gore le bona ba dule ka dintlong tša go kgahliša.(Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[It is with pleasure that I inform you that this number is in use and it helps the people of Limpopo to report any irregularity without hassle. They know that the ANC-led government will help them, and will make sure that they also live in decent houses.]

Hon Minister, as the select committee we were able to attend the Rural Housing Indaba in East London and we were very proud to see the dedication that the role-players have shown at the indaba. The commitment that they pledged was to ensure that even if one builds in a rural area one is not discriminated against when it comes to financing. Rural people will be able to access funding. They are going to use their houses as surety when they apply for financing.

What we are saying as the ANC is that we are proud of our track record. It is true that there are problems here and there. As a nation, we have to commit ourselves, like the hon Minister and the hon MECs are doing, to ensure that whoever undertakes to house our nation does so with commitment and that whoever undertakes to give our people housing does so with the dedication that the hon Minister and the hon MECs have shown.

I reiterate, as the ANC we are saying:

Re sa realo re re mmago ngwana o swara thipa ka bogaleng. Go wena Tona re re: O gole o be kaaka tlou gomme thapo yeo o e kakatlele gore batho ba gaborena kua magaeng, kudu ba kua gagešo Ga-Masemola le ba karolongkgetho yeo ke šomago go yona ya Ga-Mmalebogo, ba be le dintlo gore le bona ba re ge ba eme ba eme ka go ikgantšha ka la gore mmušo o re phethetše e bile o re diretše. (Translation of Sepedi paragraph follows.)

[We still emphasise that a woman can withstand any challenge. To you Minister we say, keep up the good work and stay focused so that our people in the rural areas, especially people from my village at Ga-Masemola and people in my constituency at Mmalebogo, can be provided with good quality houses, so that they can appreciate what the government has done for them.]

Ke a leboga. [Legofsi.] [Thank you.] [Applause.]]

Mr R DYANTYI (Western Cape): Chairperson, since 1994 this government, as reflected by the Minister, has achieved so much regarding housing delivery. As we continue to achieve, we at the same time continue to face enormous challenges. We are dealing with a backlog, hon member Krumbock, which is historical. I take note of the fact that you want to look forward, but we have to reflect from time to time. It is a backlog caused by and contributions were attributed to the issue of people’s movements and migration patterns when they were looking for economic and social opportunities in different parts of the country. Of course, part of the backlog relates to the level and the rate of delivery vis-á-vis the growth that we have to deal with.

We continue, as a challenge, to face the issue of funding arrangements. It is an ongoing challenge, even though we are getting what we are currently. Further than that, speaking to you as members of this House, we have to share with you that some of the challenges that we are facing are legislative in nature. As the Minister would have reflected to you, some projects were delayed because in a way some EIAs had to break away in accelerating housing delivery. That is a challenge we have been continuing to face, including issues of capacity constraints whether it relates to issues of land, material, and prices that are rising every day.

The question is what are we doing? I want to start by thanking Minister Sisulu on behalf of the Western Cape for allocating to us R948 million for this current financial year. I want to answer the question that asks: What we are going to be doing with this allocation? What is this money buying for us? For the Western Cape, this budget is going to ensure dignity for our people. That is what we want to do with the R948 million.

The Breaking New Ground Policy under the leadership of the Minister is saying to us that no one size fits all. It says in order to find solutions to these problems, we have to have a differentiated approach in dealing with these issues. It is in that regard that, in the Western Cape, in line with this policy, we are embarking on building partnerships with the private sector, because we realize that government alone is not going to confront this challenge and deal with these backlogs.

We are also talking about a partnership in terms of the state-owned enterprises where they own land and other issues. We also have partnerships with the beneficiaries and the communities themselves through programmes such as the People’s Housing Programme and community residential units, as the Minister was reflecting here. We have just last week highlighted the kind of projects that we are going to be implementing in this financial year.

I want to say, as I said last week to the Minister in this House, that the Western Cape is committed to accelerating our implementation of the N2 Gateway. We think that, regarding what you are doing in the Western Cape, that the Western Cape would be poorer without the contribution of your leadership because, for many years, the Western Cape has had an average annual budget of about R300 million. We now are closer to a billion in terms of the budget and that’s clearly because of your effort and your leadership, and we thank you for that.

I also want to say that, just last week and yesterday, we handed over - for the first time - decent housing of 40 square metres as part of this N2 Gateway Project, which is a flagship pilot project nationally, to mothers who are older than 70 years. When we give, for the first time, houses to people who are older than 70 years we cannot be looking back and asking ourselves the question, why only now? It is, hon member Krumbock, because of our history and so we will continue to reflect on those issues, because it’s both a happy moment and a sad moment when we do that.

We also want to take this opportunity to say in relation to the N2 Gateway Project, without apportioning any blame because we are a responsible government, that there are people we have to deliver to. Some of you have the luxury of pointing fingers which we do not have. We are going to deliver and fast-track our delivery.

You did not mention to tell this House that the City of Cape Town sat with the land availability agreement for seven months, which has cost more than R15 million. You chose not to mention that. [Interjections.]

I also want to say here that we fully support what the Minister has informed this House about. In relation to the issue of municipality accreditation, we support the Intergovernmental Relations Act where we are going to be using the delivery protocol to ensure that we do this project- based as compared to devolving powers to municipalities. We are fully behind you and we support that decision, Minister.

At the same time, we want to share with you that in relation to human settlements in the Western Cape, we have already changed municipalities to be able to understand what human settlement is all about, because if the leadership does not understand what human settlement is all about, we are still going to be sitting with problems. We have already done that for 20 municipalities as part of that training. We are insisting, in the integrated development plans – their IDPs - that we want to see a chapter on human settlements because that is where we are going to begin to speak about issues in terms of where these houses are located. Are they located in prime areas and closer to work opportunities? We also support what we have mentioned here, the issue of the UISP - Upgrading of Informal Settlements Programme - because we think that whilst we are on course in eradicating the bucket system by December this year, this UISP is going to help us achieve our universal target of 2010 for sanitation, and we are beginning to roll that out. Already, through your leadership and policies that you have created, we have gone a long way even in the past financial year to stick to that issue which helps us to deal with that matter.

We have also referred here to some of the shoddy work that was done in the past. We want to inform this House that, as the Western Cape, we are fully in a programme of rectifying some of those issues. Just yesterday and over the weekend we were dealing with some of those projects. We have to balance two things while we build and deal with new business and build new houses. We are still sitting with the existing stock that brings along these quality challenges. With the kind of policies that we have created in that regard, we are rolling those out in many areas, as we were on Sunday in Gugulethu, to show those people that they also have a future in this province.

Lastly, I also want to announce and share with this House with regard to the three provinces of the Western, Northern and Eastern Cape, that the Northern Cape budget is R130 million, but because of the way we are working, the Northern Cape is aware that many of its communities are coming to the Western Cape and, therefore, the kind of budget that the Minister gives to the Western Cape also takes into account and accommodates that, and helps the Northern Cape in terms of those issues. [Interjections.] Those three provinces have now begun to talk about our own interdependence as three provinces. We have begun to talk about joint strategies, joint planning and what we make of all of these issues. We are not talking about, hon member Robinson, creating Chinese walls between these provinces. It is about how we are managing these people’s movements across the three provinces. I thank you.

Mr M A MZIZI: Sihlalo, Ngqongoqshe kazwelonke noNgqongqoshe bezifundazwe - nina bendlovu enamandla. [Chairperson, Minister and the MECs - you, the children of the powerful elephant.]

Chairperson, taking part in this very important debate on housing, when one reads the Constitution, section 26 on housing, it states clearly that everyone has a right to have access to adequate housing. Hence the Department of Housing has a responsibility to make sure that every South African, rich or poor, has access to adequate housing on a progressive basis within its available resources.

The other message we find is that no one may be evicted from their home or have their home demolished without an order of the court, made after considering all the relevant circumstances. No legislation may permit arbitrary eviction. Minister, people still experience evictions and demolition of their dwellings without proper consultation. This act causes a lot of litigation and court processes. These cases are prevalent in the area where I stay in Ekurhuleni, mostly involving self-help scheme housing and other dwellings.

The budget allocated for the year illustrates an increase of 15,95% compared to the 2006-07 financial year budget allocation. The average annual growth rate is 17,2%, and I think that with this budget we will be able to fulfil all other demands, especially for unforeseen circumstances of disaster such as floods and fire.

The main challenges facing the housing sector are the lack of intergovernmental co-ordination for accelerated delivery - especially in relation to the capacity of provinces and local government to deliver on national priorities - and the lack of monitoring and evaluation capacity to administer the housing subsidy system.

The other problem is that you still find people on the waiting list. Just to cite an example from the waiting list of 1996-97, a lot of people from that time have not been able to have access to any kind of accommodation.

The IFP welcomes the idea of the government that the provincial housing department should implement the process of building capacity to improve the planning, technical and administrative procedures to accelerate the delivery of housing units.

Ngqongqoshe mangisho ukuthi akuseyikuba kubi khona kwezezindlu ngoba phela usuke waphakamisa isandla wathi maluju. Kodwa-ke Ngqongqoshe labo bantu abangahlali emahostela kanye nabantu abangakaze bangene ngisho nakanye ngaphakathi emahostela, abazi ukuthi kungani kubalulekile ukuthi sikhulume ngamahostela.

Abantu abaningi bafika emahostela ngoba bebalekela izimpi lapho babehlala khona. Abanye babefika namakhosikazi abo bayohlala nawo khona emahostela. Uzokhumbula-ke Ngqongqoshe ukuthi amanye amahostela asasebenzisa loluya luhlelo oludala lwama-cubicle units.

Kulawa ma-cubicle units kwakulala abantu babe yisishiyagalombili ndawonye, kunguthela wayeka nje. Wawuye uthole ukuthi unkosikazi nomnumzane balele embhedeni, uvale ngekhetheni kanti ngale kulele amanye amadoda. Angazi-ke kahle ukuthi uma leyo ndoda enonkosikazi isebenza ebusuku leyo nkosikazi yayisala nobani. Ukube ngangingaba kuleso simo mina ngangingeke ngisebenze ngangingalokhu nje ngehla ngenyuka [Uhleko.].

Okubi kakhulu-ke Ngqongqoshe ukuthi laphayana emahostela kukhona izindlu zangasese ezingavalwa, ezinguthela wayeka nje. Uthola ukuthi inkosikazi ihleli laphayana, nanguyana uyangena nomnumzane mumbe laphayana naye afike ahlale. Ngalawo magama-ke sisho ukuthi uma kungasekho inhlonipho ngakube sibhekephi - ngoba nezingane zikhona njalo lapho. Angikhulumi-ke ngamanzi … [Akuzwakali.] … asazi ukuthi kwenzekani.

Kodwa-ke Ngqongqoshe ungihlabe umxhwele uma uthi cha usuyobhukula uke ushone khona. Umnumzane uMashatile ngake ngambiza wazibonela ngawakhe amehlo, kodwa-ke noma kunjalo siyaxhasa, akukho esikugxekayo kwisabelo osinikile. Unwele olude. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)

[Minister, let me say that at least things will not be as bad in the housing sector, as you have since acknowledged the shortfalls. But Minister, those people who have neither stayed in a hostel nor visited a hostel do not understand why it is so important for us to talk about hostels.

Many people came to hostels because they were fleeing wars in their areas. Some came with their wives and went on to stay in hostels. You will remember, Minister, that other hostels still use what is known as cubicle units.

These cubicle units would accommodate at least eight people at once, without any privacy. In some instances you would find that a man and his wife are sleeping on the oneside of the unit, and only partitioned off with a curtain and on the other side of the curtain a few men are also sleeping. I am not too sure then as to who would look after the wife of that man if he is doing night shift. If I were to be in that situation, I would decide not to work, and simply pace up and down. [Laughter.]

The worst thing in hostels though, hon Minister, is that there are toilets which cannot be shut, and everything is exposed. You find that a female resident is sitting over there, and a male resident would simply walk in and sit on the other side. With those words we are saying that if we lose respect, then where are we heading, as all these things happen in front of children … [Inaudible] … we don’t know what is happening.

Minister, I was immensely impressed by your saying that you will take it upon yourself to visit the hostels. I once invited hon Mashatile and he saw the conditions under which these people live there. Be that as it may, we support this budget you have presented to us and we are not critical of anything. Long live.]

Mr T M JEEBODH (KwaZulu-Natal): Chairperson, hon Minister of Housing, hon MECs and colleagues, it is indeed a pleasure and honour to be part of this debate on the Housing Vote.

I am from the kingdom province of KwaZulu-Natal, as some would say it’s the only province with a first name and surname. [Laughter.] This lovely province has the highest population of all eight provinces. According to the 2006 estimates, our population was 9,813 million or 20,9% of the total population of South Africa. Our contribution to the national GDP is 16,3%. Our annual average household income is R78 205, compared to the national average of R86 360. KwaZulu-Natal statistics on living conditions are: Household living in formal dwellings is 61,7%, against the national average of 69,6%; household living in informal dwellings is 14,8%, against the national average of 15,9%; and the household living in traditional dwellings is 23,2%, against the national average of 11,8%. The bottom line is that we are the biggest province with some of the biggest backlogs.

Since 1994, when we got our independence and freedom, housing has been one of the core social issues for redress, with a total of 2,2 million houses built so far in South Africa. Our province has an opportunity to invest a total of about R9 billion over 12 years.

One of the most significant constraints to Asgisa remains the partial distortion by pre-1994 apartheid. On the one hand, it is common in all our communities for growth and development to be highly effective, but unevenly skewed and concentrated in a small geographic space. On the other hand, apartheid spatial planning deliberately exacerbated these tendencies, ensuring that people were located far from social and economic opportunities, denying many people access to opportunities of employment, wealth creation and social progress.

Since 1994, South Africa has witnessed a massive migration to the areas of economic opportunity, leading to the spawning of informal settlements in major towns and cities. Although poverty continues to be highly concentrated in rural areas, today the greatest number of poor people reside in our many urban centres. Nevertheless, the enduring legacy of apartheid planning means that spatial marginalisation from economic and social amenities continues to be a significant feature of our economy, which must be addressed in order to reduce poverty and create a better life for all. This means that social investments like housing must be located within the midst of centres of economic opportunities. We have to act decisively to reverse the pattern of housing delivery. It also means that all spheres of government should target their social economic investment in localities that will become major centres of growth in South Africa.

This brings me to the principal argument. The national Department of Housing, together with its provincial counterparts, is planning the total eradication of slums by the year 2014. Giving people a roof over their heads gives back dignity to humanity.

In KwaZulu-Natal, the human settlement grant for 2007-08 is R1,31 billion. We have a backlog of 330 000 and millions need to be housed in order to totally eradicate informal slums. The challenges are enormous, but we remain positive. We can achieve the objective of the total eradication of informal slums, of which 156 000 families are situated in Durban, Ethekwini Metro. Close to 32% of our housing budget goes to the Ethekwini region. The province took the initiative in drafting a slums Bill, to be passed into law within the next two months - public hearings excluded. The KwaZulu-Natal Elimination and Prevention of Re-emergence of Slums Bill came into the making 12 months ago and it has become a reality.

The objects of this Act are, amongst others, to eliminate slums; to prevent the re-emergence of slums; to promote co-operation between the department and municipalities in the elimination of slums; to promote co-operation between the department and municipalities in the prevention of the re- emergence of slums; to monitor the performance of the department and municipalities in the elimination and prevention of the re-emergence of slums; and to improve the living conditions of the communities in the province.

This Act empowers the MEC and municipalities to contain the situation. Only the public will be responsible for their land, building and prospective tenancy. The responsible MEC must, within five months of the financial year, be able to consolidate a report based on the annual report submitted by the municipalities.

My final request is that if we are going to meaningfully achieve our targets for 2014, we need more annual resources in the housing division. Current budget allocations fall short of the stated objectives. A plea to the National Treasury is that more money is needed for housing. A discussion by members who re-evaluate the formula ought to benefit KwaZulu- Natal. The formula as it stands is upside down. The weighting is in order of priority of the elements as defined - allocation of 50% to households earning less than R350 00, plus population of 20%. In KwaZulu-Natal, we have overspent our budget and there are no roll-overs. I challenge other provinces that could not spend their budgets to please give us the money and we will put it to good use.

I would like to share with the NHRBC, Samdi and hon members our knowledge gained from India. In December we took our portfolio committee to India and we have learnt a lot on our visit. We visited projects that the Indians have put in place. I must say to this august House that approximately 22 000 family houses were built within two years. It was reiterated that with regard to these developments every project has a minimum of 545 civil engineers on site and they are given two-year contracts to finish the projects. In many cases they finished the projects within 15 months. This is a challenge to South Africans also to take 15 months to finish such projects. It should be clear through all of those examples that we could cut our backlogs.

Finally, KwaZulu-Natal has the second largest number of hostels, next to Gauteng. Could the Minister, in her reply, say to us how the funding models for hostels could be achieved, because hostels are a burning issue? Thank you. Ms B L MATLHOAHELA: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, current figures indicate a backlog of 1,8 million dwellings that can be considered as inadequate housing. These figures include backyard shacks and informal dwellings. Some traditional dwellings resort under these.

The ID needs clarification from the Minister in relation to the provision of housing in Kimberley. Are these people I am going to mention now, through the hon Chairperson to the Minister, registered on the housing waiting list? These places are the centre where the TB hospital used to be and Greenside, where the garages were given to people to live in by De Beers.

The ID also requests the Minister to please deliberate on the situation at Green Point in Kimberley, where 3 000 families live with one tap for every 300 people, and one toilet for every 300 people. What are the plans here?

With regard to the influx from the countryside to the cities, where there is already a backlog, the following needs to be considered to make the country towns attractive to live in. Factories need to be built to give people a decent income and to enable them to obtain loans for housing and to better themselves. This is possible when research has been done and infrastructure is in place. A place like De Aar has unutilised buildings which can be revitalised for use as factories. It will relieve the housing burden on the department. At Victoria West, in the Ubuntu municipality in the Northern Cape province, after 5 years houses were built - just now – but there are only 50 houses. These houses are not good and it was mentioned in the local paper that the municipality is going to give R200 to each person moving into the houses to do what they consider essential. The ID requests the Minister to please launch an investigation into these matters. Loxton in the Northern Cape is another place where the delivery of houses does not take place.

In relation to toilets at site C near the N2 from the airport, what can be done there? Those people don’t have toilets. They relieve themselves next to the road where the taxi drivers pass with their passengers. They told me that it is a sight in the morning between 6 and 8 o’clock. I thank you.

Mr N D HENDRICKSE: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon members, it is encouraging to see that commercial banks are coming on board with providing finance for the N2 Gateway Project. But of more significance is that our combatants are people who have suffered outside in the bush and laid down their lives so that they can get houses. I think it is about time for them and their families to be housed properly. We respect the department for that tremendous gesture. Unfortunately, both the quantity and quality of the houses provided in the past year have been disappointing due to poor workmanship and it is sad that it had to happen at the N2 Gateway Project. More impetus should be given to the People’s Housing Process and more sustainable funding should be sought for it. We need to look at spatial development patterns and planning most of which are relics of apartheid-era planning. In terms of intergovernmental relations we need to ask large city metros that this be considered in their Integrated Development Plans.

Monitoring and evaluation in relation to contractors, the materials used, skills of artisans etc are critical factors. It is unscrupulous contractors who use cheap inferior materials, cutting corners in order to make a profit on their tenders. There must be tighter performance measures, phased-in payments only so that government can get value for money. At present building contractors are sabotaging housing delivery with poor workmanship, which later presents a hazardous and unsafe living environment. This cannot be allowed to continue. Government inspectors should be held accountable. In fact, metro inspectors should be allowed to inspect building sites as well - and I don’t mean Cape Town Metro inspectors. [Laughter.]

People migrate to the Western Cape not because of our beaches, but they come in search of employment so that they can support their families. The only way to correct this and arrest the explosion of informal settlements is to encourage business nodes in the rural areas where factories could be established without being taxed. If we fail to do this we will never come anywhere near to solving the housing problem in our cities.

The MEC for the Western Cape has reported that he built 16 000 houses in the past year. Yes, this is wonderful news but it does not begin to make a dent in our housing backlog of 450 000 houses and also relics of apartheid, and the influx of 20 000 families per year.

We need to look at alternatives. Houses built with styrene Lego-type blocks. Women can build a house in a matter of hours. Self-help schemes must be the order of the day but must be properly co-ordinated. For these schemes to really take off, we need engineers. Thank you, Chairperson. [Time expired.] [Applause.]

Mor P MOATSHE: Modulasetulo yo o tlotlegang le Tona ya Lefapha la Matlo mo Aforika Borwa, re a go leboga wena le lefapha la gago, Ditonakgolo go tswa kwa diporofenseng tse di leng gone fa le baemedi ba ba kgethegileng le badiri ka nna, ga o kolope matlapa fa o nna mo ntlong ya digalase. Kgomo e tshwarwa ka dinaka, motho o tshwarwa ka mafoko. Fa o ka didimala ga re kitla re itse gore o motho yo o ntseng jang. Go botoka go didimala fa o sa tshwara mafoko a a latelang.

Monna wa Motswana yo o rutegileng tota a re, kgakakgolo ga ke na mebala, mebala e dikgakaneng. Fa ke rialo, ke raya gore ngwana wa bo rona Krumbock … (Translation of Setswana paragraph follows.)

[Rev P MOATSHE: Hon Chairperson and Minister of Housing in South Africa, we thank you and your department. Premiers from provinces present, special delegates and my colleagues, people who live in glass houses do not throw stones. If you are a liar, you are bound to be caught through what you are saying. However, keeping quiet will not give us any information as to what kind of a person you are. It is better to keep quiet if you do not know the following words.

A learned Motswana man says that a tree is known by its fruits. By implication I mean our fellow child Krumbock …]

If you want us not to talk about apartheid, then … [Interjections] … the word “apartheid”. Folks say we should not blame apartheid. You surely must go back and blame apartheid. Apartheid cannot be defended. It was a criminal system. [Interjections.]

Apartheid is a system that nearly wiped out the black majority in this country. [Interjections.] The intention was to wipe them out and make them the minority. They did not want a system that … [Interjections.]

And as for us, we don’t want to talk about this. Take it away, take it away from your mind. Come, face it, you don’t need it anymore. You want to support the policy and all build for a better future for the rainbow nation. Black and white … [Interjections.] … but some people want to challenge this. The mindset has to be changed and therefore we want to build a better future with our new consolidated houses.

In the previous financial year, 2006-07, the department experienced an increasing number of shacks being destroyed by floods or as a result of fire hazards. It also became imperative for the department to attain well- located land for the relocation of flood or fire-stricken families, as well as for the construction of subsidised low-cost housing.

The insufficiency of housing funds has impacted negatively on the department as it tries to keep apace with the housing supply. In ensuring that the department achieves the construction of quality low-cost houses, it has increased the building standards from 30m² to 40m². This improvement is welcomed, but it has also brought with it challenges regarding the funding of the extra 10m².

Chairperson, this increase in the budget results from the President’s call to intensify housing programmes through the formulation and development of special purpose vehicles for the availability of well-located land for housing development. The administration programme aims to provide strategic leadership and administrative and management support services to the department. Chairperson, the effective and efficient enrolment of housing programmes within the department is similar to the 2006-07 budget allocation. There is an increase in this budget allocation, which indicates the department’s commitment to unblock bottlenecks using skilled human resources. Are you listening? [Interjections.]

In the 2005-06 to 2006-07 budget allocation, the department indicated to Parliament that a lack of skills within the department hampers the speedy delivery of quality housing. At present, most provincial departments of housing are experiencing difficulties in enabling quality housing construction due to a lack of skills.

For instance, the provincial departments of housing in the Eastern Cape and Mpumalanga were unable to ensure quantified housing expenditure due to a lack of skills within the local departments of housing. This further led to underexpenditure and the construction of poor housing units which do not comply with the building principles of the National Home Builders Registration Council – NHBRC.

It is therefore crucial that the budget increase for this programme be used for the establishment of the housing units in local housing departments in the worst performing local municipalities. This will improve the role of the national Department of Housing in enabling effective and efficient implementation of housing programmes and quantifying capital expenditure at local and provincial housing levels.

Housing policy research and programmes envisage developing and managing sound national human settlements and housing policies supported by a responsive research agenda. The programmes further aim to monitor and assess the implementation, performance and impact of national housing policies and programmes and provide integrated business information.

Chairperson, at present the housing strategy aims to promote sustainable human settlements through the investment of housing infrastructure and human capital among housing beneficiaries. The housing strategy is silent on research issues regarding housing, education for child-headed households and persons with disabilities. It therefore becomes crucial for the department to formulate mechanisms that will enable sustainable livelihoods in low-cost human settlements through research and intergovernmental partnership with the Departments of Social Development, of Home Affairs and of Public Works.

This emanates from the fact that housing is not only giving shelter, but also a platform from which childhood development can be achieved through the inclusion of the civil society organisations or CSOs, nongovernmental organisations or NGOs and other governmental departments in enabling the creation of child-friendly human settlements.

The department’s housing strategy does not indicate to what extent it intends to cater for human capital investment among children. This proposed initiative further inculcates the culture of sustainable livelihoods among all household members, which will automatically impact significantly in enabling sound housing planning that is sensitive to the housing needs of all household members. As a result, the majority of low-cost housing projects are characterised by inadequate project management due to a lack of sound technical support between the government and the private sector.

These difficulties impede on the creation of integrated housing development, irrespective of the formulation of housing chapters in the Integrated Development Plans – IDPs. The compromised partnership within the three spheres of government and lack of viable tools to promote public participation in housing delivery programmes is resulting in construction of poor quality, which is usually not inspected by the NHBRC.

Before I have to stop, the People’s Housing Programme or PHP is very important. You know, it educates. It gets people to take the initiative and to take the brick and the spade and to work. I am saying this much, Chairperson, because if you look today, the PHP, as they move on, supporting one another, are acting as a team to construct their own houses. It makes them very proud and confident and they are, at the same time, gaining skills so that they are able to renovate their own houses as they move on.

Let me conclude with the Nelson Mandela Bay Municipality, which includes Port Elizabeth, Uitenhage and Despatch, in the Eastern Cape. Beautiful houses have been constructed, but they were constructed on low-lying land. When it rains, these houses are flooded. I think the problem is, Chairperson and hon Minister … [Interjections.]… You are not helping me. Who is that?

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Order, order! hon members! I was making the point that your time has expired. I must also bring to the attention of the members that there should not be … [Interjections.]. The Reverend has hope for his houses in the Eastern Cape.

Rev P MOATSHE: Yes, I wanted to say that there is no stormwater drainage. That is the problem. Because their land is low-lying –

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Your time has expired, hon member.

Rev P MOATSHE: Thank you, Chairperson.

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: Deputy Chairperson, I wish I could come to the House more often. To be called here takes me back to a place I love to reside in. Thank you very much. Also, I have this particular request to the Whips: Please don’t ever put me after the hon Moatshe has spoken. To follow him is a very tough act indeed. [Laughter.] With his eloquence he has whipped up the House - even those who were sleeping are now up. [Laughter.] I’m expected to do as well, and it is just not fair. So please put him right at the beginning, so that the necessary environment is created for me. [Laughter.]

Thank you very much, Chairperson. I’d like to thank all those who participated in this debate. It was quite clear, as I was listening to you, that this was a well thought-through discussion. Most of you had actually sat down to understand what it is that we’re doing. That was very encouraging because we do depend on you to give us the necessary support. Even when you don’t agree, you are able to bring to our attention some of the things that we might not be doing so well. We always pledge ourselves to look into the issues that you’ve raised, to come back and to make sure that we have attended to them. And we continue in this way because we need your support in approving our budget.

I’d like to thank the chairperson, who acknowledged publicly that we are making progress. We are making progress because now we’ve built 2,4 million houses. I wake up every morning dreaming that this could just multiply, because it never occurred to us when we started out with a backlog of three million houses that we would get to the point at which the backlog would be 2,2 million. This is a dream come true. [Applause.]

We need you, however, to be our conscience. We need you to be out there ensuring that we are able to do our work. We also want to thank the hon Chair for recognising that our advertisement took him quite by surprise. It is a nice advertisement.

An HON MEMBER: He likes it.

The MINISTER OF HOUSING: He likes it, I know. I just hope it is not the lead actor that he likes, but just the general principle … [Laughter.] … of what we’re trying to show in terms of where we come from, from the shacks, from the smaller houses that we could afford, right through to what we are now able to give as a house. I think it is a very good advert. We will ensure that we have it on our screens as much as possible, because it is very educative and it will take our people along with us.

On the Nelson Mandela Metro, it is regrettable that even though we have a gentlemen’s agreement with the municipalities, some municipalities still let us down. We have absolutely no way of tying their hands, but we are hoping with the establishment of the housing development agency that we will be able to buy land, hold it for ourselves and ensure that we can deal with this. Now, regarding what has happened – I’ve got to check this because I have to be quite certain of my facts – I am told that we did have some of the land. We devolved it down to the provinces, as a requirement of our Constitution. The provinces also as a requirement – or they thought it was a requirement – have devolved it to the municipalities. The municipalities are now selling the land that actually belongs to us. Now we are running after them to ensure that they don’t do this. We will keep tabs on this and see that we can hold them accountable through a measure of legislative restraint.

We are aware that the chairperson comes from the Northern Cape. We omitted to indicate that in our current top-slicing model, we have concentrated on the Eastern Cape and the Western Cape because of the crisis that they are experiencing in terms of their backlogs. Our next top-slicing will be diverted to the Northern Cape. We are hoping that with one lot it will be possible for us to wipe out the entire backlog of the Northern Cape. In this way, we can use the Northern Cape as a pilot to show how we can build into the future, because we have been building to catch up with our backlog. Whether it is due to apartheid or whatever it is, this is the reality we live with. We inherited a huge backlog which we are whittling away on a regular basis. The Northern Cape will drive us into the future, so that we can see how we build for our children as well.

Hon Krumbock, when I heard you recognising the good in our policies and their intent, I was left completely speechless. I’ve never heard the DA speak like that. I have actually been pinching myself, wondering what has happened to the DA. But the true face of the DA did come up now when the hon Moatshe was here, so I realised that it was still the same party that was speaking. [Laughter.]

However, we do take the credit that you have given in that our policies are solid. We take note of the point you made about shoddy work; we are just as concerned as you are. We are dealing with that matter. On the matter of the N2, I think that the hon MEC has indicated the progress we’ve made. In fact, during the past two weeks we should have invited you to see the good work that is being done on the N2. Let’s not dwell on recriminations. The truth of the matter is that we were held back by the land availability agreement that we were waiting for from the city. We should not run away from that, in the same way that we will admit when we have problems. It is absolutely important that the DA does also take cognisance of those things that it did wrong, so that we’re not held back by any sphere of government. This is about intergovernmental relations. They need my money as much as they would need to co-operate.

We didn’t kick them away from their responsibilities on the N2. There is a memorandum of understanding in place, and we expect them to deliver on infrastructure and all the things that are very directly their responsibility. So it is very important that we actually do get to the truth. And, when we stand here, what we put out is the truth and facts. Now, what you have indicated here is not true. It is not true that the contractor on the N2 had access to the area. It is not true. The contractor and the bank involved – First National Bank – are extremely reputable people who will only go in when the entire legal infrastructure has been put in place. They only went in two or three days ago for the first time. They had been waiting for a year.

Please, therefore, for the purposes of this House, we need to correct that. Please let’s make sure that between our own propaganda and the truth, we come to understand that when we are in this House we deal with the truth only. [Applause.]

To the hon member here, it only takes a woman to recognise what women are capable of. Thank you very much for the confidence you’ve shown in us. May I indicate to you that for some reason the premiers, perhaps because I threaten them on a regular basis, have always given me what they consider the best MECs. I’ve had the good fortune of having people who are able to push up their sleeves and get to work. So, whatever it is we have done, I owe it to them because they really are extremely committed people.

We wonder, too, what kind of people build the kind of houses that we have. Sadly, it is our people. Sadly, it is our people who build these houses. So stop wondering. We build these houses for our people. So something somewhere has gone very wrong, and we here must take stock of that and go back and ensure that we can put it right. We build these houses for our people, and we go home to the posh houses that don’t leak, that don’t have cracks. We must make sure that we bring a conscience to the people who deal with the issues that we are dealing with.

Hon Krumbock, you were wondering what we’re doing about the Auditor- General’s report. The problem with a budget of this nature is that it is actually packed with things that we would like to tell you, because we are actually very proud of the work that we have done and we could go on forever telling you what it is we have done. But we are dealing with the matter now. Fortunately, most of the civil servants who have defrauded the subsidy scheme have come forward, given back the houses that they had, and we are dealing with this matter with a lot of co-operation from those people that defrauded the system. But this is on our table; it is very much at the top of our agenda.

I was glad to hear the hon member from Limpopo indicate that our toll-free line is working. I’d like to urge members here to ensure that in every province we can give this particular service. It is absolutely important that we support our people by giving them access to our explanations whenever they experience a problem.

Hon Mzizi, you dealt with a matter that was dealt with by the hon Dyantyi, which is the need for intergovernmental co-operation. This is absolutely essential. This is at the bottom of our delivery system. I have read in the newspaper that some political parties would like to withdraw from Salga. If any of your councillors are thinking of this, I’d like to urge you here to please tell them of the benefits they would get out of this. Salga provides us with a forum at which we can discuss our issues, at which we can discuss our policy, at which we can plan to go forward. Anybody who would like to withdraw from this is only cutting off their nose to spite their face. It just doesn’t work. [Interjections.]

I have given my pledge, hon Mzizi, on the hostels. I’m glad you mentioned it. I have been to the hostels. I have been there, and I have seen the poverty there. I have seen the disgraceful conditions of our people there. You talk about the women there – that you would not be able to work if you had to leave your wife behind. There are children there. On a daily basis there are children running around in these conditions. Tell me what happens to those children. I’m glad you raised it. I’m glad too that you raised this so poignantly, because my officials are here. The same frustration you experience, I experience. Before you here I am pledging that I am going to take them to Meadowlands to see the conditions of the hostels there. Then, maybe, they will understand what it is that we are dealing with.

Hon Jeebodh of KwaZulu-Natal, this is the problem you raised before: the money and the number crunching. We have been through that. Please let us not go through it again. We are very grateful that you have targeted the elimination of slums. Please continue with that because it is absolutely vital for us. We are aware of the Indian successes. That is why we have asked the Indians to come into an agreement with us so that we can have some skills-sharing. If we can eliminate informal settlements to the tune of 22 000 houses in 16 months, we will be the happiest people.

To the ID, on the waiting list, I’d like to say that I have absolutely no idea, hon member, what the problem is. Sitting here, I have no idea. But I would like you please to help me with this, because as much as it is my responsibility, I’d like you to take it on as your responsibility. We will certainly investigate any irregularities that you draw our attention to.

I thank Mr Hendrickse for mentioning the gesture towards our ex-combatants who helped to bring us here. This is a very important step that we have taken, and it took us a long time to get here, but we are very glad that we did get here.

Finally, Chairperson, I have never bitten my tongue as much as I bit it here. This clock here has kept me on my toes more than I could ever have done. [Laughter.] But I did get a note from the Chairperson, apologising for it not having been adjusted. It has been 00:00 since I got here. It has now been adjusted and I have exactly two minutes to finish. But I have finished. Thank you very much for the attention. [Laughter.] [Applause.] The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Thank you, hon Minister. Once more, on behalf of this august House, we must extend our salutations and gratitude to yourself and your department for the consistency you have given in attending to your work insofar as it relates to the constitutional mandate of this House. We appreciate that and we hope that the debate has actually assisted to unblock some of the issues among provinces, delegates and the department. So we thank you for that. That concludes the debate. You are welcome to be part of the next debate as an observer if you so wish, hon Minister.

Debate concluded.

            DEEPENING YOUTH PARTICIPATION THROUGH SERVICE


                      (Subject for Discussion)

USihlalo womKhandlu Ongamele iimFunda (NCOP): Somlomo ngithanda ukuthokoza ithuba engiphiwe lona bonyana ngiphefumule ngalekulumo engizoyibeka yelutjha. Angithome ngokuthi, ilutjha likusasa lethu, libarholi benarha le esikhathini esizako. Kufanele-ke thina siyithlogomele, siyikhombe indlela, siyakhe, sisebenzisane nayo bonyana ikusasa lethu libe yisasa elihle nelikhanyako.

Sizokukhumbula bonyana umbuso lo esiwuthola namhlanjesi, ulihlangothi lomzabalazo owawusizwa lilutjha. Abanengi balo balahlekelwa zamaphilo zabo. Namhlanje abasekho emhlabeni, sebabekwa. Abanengi babo asazi nokuthi bafela kuphi, basafunwa nanamhlanjesi. Bebalwela inarha le yeSewula Afrika bonyana yikwazi ukuba yinarha ehle enetjhaphuluko, bekube lilizwe ekwazakalako bona woke umuntu uzakuthatha indima ukuze aphile kuhle begodu nakamnandi. (Translation of isiNdebele paragraphs follows.)

[The CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP: Chairperson, I would like to thank you for the opportunity granted to deliver a speech about the youth. Let me start by saying: the youth is our future, they are future leaders. We must take care of them, show them the way, nurture them and work together with them, so that we can have a bright future.

We will remember that the government we have today was throughout the struggle assisted by the youth. Most of them lost their lives and we buried them. We don’t know where most of them died; we are still searching for them today. They fought for this country, South Africa, so that it can be a beautiful and a free country, a country where it is known that all people will play a role and have a better life.]

Youth activism played a crucial role in raising awareness among the youth of our country about the atrocities visited upon the oppressed and poor communities. It also played a big role in contributing towards the liberation of our country and in the attainment of the freedom which we now enjoy.

As we engage in this debate during youth month on our national calendar, we need to look at some of the contemporary challenges that face our youth today, most of which are still a legacy of the kind of past we have emerged from. Some of these challenges include unemployment, and diseases such as HIV and Aids.

It is not an overstatement to say that some of our youth have become secondary and primary victims of the challenges of unemployment in our country. I am saying this because the past I have just referred to created a workforce which did not have the necessary skills needed by our growing economy. Hence, we now talk about initiatives such as the Joint Initiative for Priority Skills Acquisition – Jipsa - which are aimed at promoting skills acquisition necessary for people to participate in and thus benefit from the economy. These initiatives need to strategically target the youth so that their newly acquired requisite skills can grow the economy, or should grow our economy, and the current lack of skills does not become a perpetual challenge.

There are, of course, signs that the economy is growing steadily and that economic opportunities are being created. The President attested to this yesterday when he said that by September this year the South African economy would have been growing for eight solid years, longer than ever before in the recorded economic history of our country, and that our current rate of growth had remained at a steady, high level for longer than ever before in our history. This climate must allow us to move steadily to ensure that our youth become the beneficiaries of this positive growth in the economy and do not become dysfunctional members of our new society. One of the ways of doing this is by instilling the spirit of youth activism that has seen the youth contribute in a major way to the liberation of this country.

We should not allow a situation in which our youth become primary victims of unemployment, as generations did before them. Equally, we must not allow our children to fall victim to diseases such as HIV and Aids because of the way they have been socialised. We have to intervene and ensure that we direct our youth to activities that enable them to be responsible and to take the future into their own hands. We can do this, among other things, by creating platforms for youth engagement.

As members are aware, Parliament does have on its own annual calendar an opportunity for the youth to engage through the Youth Parliament. This year the Youth Parliament will take place on 21 June to 22 June. This is an initiative through which Parliament recognises the valuable contribution and the significant role that the youth must continue to play in shaping our country and its democracy.

This role speaks to, firstly, a politically active youth that take charge of its future; secondly, an informed youth that appreciate and help shape our democracy; and, thirdly, a community-focused youth that seek solutions through debate and discussion.

Through this and other initiatives, we must make sure that our youth take centre stage and that they are involved in civil society youth organisations; civil youth organisations; youth development programmes; moral regeneration initiatives; social-cohesion initiatives; education and training; and, most importantly, sport and recreation.

Through the platform we as Parliament have created for our youth, we have witnessed that our youth want to participate in addressing the challenges that face them and, in so doing, shaping the future of this country. This is evident from some of the recommendations they have made, especially in the past year, which included the recommendation to develop strategic partnerships to increase the participation of youth in all economic and social programmes, and in incorporating minority youth groups, the development of which speaks to social cohesion. Also, there is a need for the youth to participate in community forums to ensure that issues concerning them are addressed. Lastly, as young people they must not depend on being employed, but are also able to work towards being the employers and create opportunities where there are none.

Through providing platforms for youth engagement, we hope that our Parliament will contribute towards orientating our youth to actively participate in youth activities and activities of the state. Hon members would be aware that the National Youth Service became part of government’s programme of action for the first time last year. Located in the Presidency, this is a special government initiative that seeks to contribute to the enhancement of young people so that they can participate meaningfully in the political, social and economic life of the country.

The National Youth Service is intended to give our youth life skills, to take the youth away from risky lifestyles and to prepare the youth to be good citizens. In doing these things, it is hoped that it will eventually achieve the goals of the Jipsa programme I mentioned earlier.

We will recall that the President, in his state of the nation address in February this year, committed government to specific programmes through the National Youth Service programme when he said:

… we will increase the number of young people engaged in the National Youth Service by at least 20 000 through 18 of our departments which have already developed plans in this regard, enrol 30 000 young volunteers in community development initiatives, and employ 5 000 young people as part of the Expanded Public Works Programme in the maintenance of government buildings; intensify efforts to integrate youth development into the mainstream of government work, including a youth co-operatives programme, and the ongoing efforts to link unemployed graduates with employment opportunities …

I hope that the opportunities that our government is creating for promoting the involvement of young people in activities which provide benefits to the community, whilst developing their abilities through service and learning, will assist us in addressing the contemporary challenges facing our youth today. I wish the participants that will follow me in the debate a good debate today, as we face June 16 on Saturday which is Youth Day. I thank you, Chairperson. Thank you very much. [Applause.]

Nk N F MAZIBUKO: Sihlalo namalungu, okuningi uSihlalo weNdlu yoMkhandlu Kazwelonke Wezifundazwe ukusho kwaba sengathi ubefunda inkulumo yami engiyiphethe lapha. Usewathathe wonke amaphuzu ami, kodwa akunani ngoba ngizosho okumbalwa okuyilokho angakuthintanga.

Lowo owayenguMongameli wenhlangano ka-ANC, ubaba u-Oliver Reginald Tambo wathi, ngizomcaphuna ngesiNgisi, “A country that does not honour its youth, does not deserve its future.” Ngabe wayeqonde ukuthini ngala mazwi? Wayeqonde ukuthi izwe kumele liyazise intsha. Malingacini ngokuyibona kuphela kodwa kumele lizigqaje ngayo, lihloniphe namalungelo ayo ngoba le ntsha izoba ngabaholi bakusasa.

Kulo nyaka iPhalamende lisebenza ngendikimba ethi, “Masijule Ngengxoxo Mzansi”. Uma sijula ngengxoxo, kuzomele sibheke emuva, sicabange kahle ukuthi ngabe sisukaphi nomzabalazo wokulwela amalungelo ethu siseyintsha, kusukela ngo-1976 nangeminyaka yawo-1980.

Ngenxa yokuthi intsha iyona eyayizabalaza kakhulu, itoyiza, ishisa ngama“necklaces” ishisa nangamabhomu kaphethroli, amaphoyisa abe azi ukuthi izinqola zawo zazishaywa ngamatshe njalo. Amaphoyisa ayesebenzisa nentuthu ekhipha isisi. Kwakushubile.

Uma kwakuthiwa azikhwelwa noma akuthengwa ezitolo zabelungu, kukhona nabo“black Christmas” intsha iyona eyayiqinisekisa ukuthi abantu bathobela imithetho yomzalabazo, nokuthi angabi khona “amagundane” anyonyobayo aye emsebenzini noma aye kothenga edolobheni. Uma wawutholwe usedolobheni wawuphuziswa i-Sta-soft noma lawo mafutha owawukade uyowathenga.

Emuva kokutholakala kwenkululeko, thina siyintsha kaKhongolose sabonisana ukuthi njengoba intsha yayibambe iqhaza elibalulekile ngenkathi yomzabalazo, iningi layo lalahlekelwa yizimpilo. Abanye babhadla emajele, abanye bazithola bengenamakhono futhi bengafundanga ngenxa yokuthi sasingekho isikhathi sokuya esikoleni. Kwakushiswa ngisho nezincwadi ngenkathi kusalwelwa inkululeko. Kwathi nangenkathi i-Cosas iqhamuka nesiqubulo esasithi, “Pass one pass all” iningi lethu laphumelela.

Ngeminyaka yawo-1980 intsha yayibizwa nge-lost generation. Ngeminyaka yama- 1990 emuva kokuba sesivotile, intsha yayibizwa nge-Boom Shaka generation ngoba yayidansela umculo weqembu elalibizwa ngokuthi yi-Boom Shaka. Ngaleyo minyaka bekungasashaywa ngamatshe, umzabalazo ubusuqondene nokwakhiwa kwengqalasizinda ukuze nayo intsha imelwe ePhalamende.

Iqembu lentsha kaKhongolose yilona kuphela elaphakamisa ukuthi kube noNgqongqoshe wezabasha, kepha niyazi nani ukuthi ngeke sakuthola konke esikufunayo. Kodwa-ke kwakhiwa iKhomishane Yentsha okuyiyona eqinisekisa ukuthi izwi labasha liyezwakala futhi nezinhlelo zonke zikahulumeni ziyakwazi ukubhekana nezinselelo kanye nobunzima obuthwelwe ngabasha.

IKhomishane Yentsha yona-ke yabe seyakhe iSikhwama soMsobomvu okuyisona esiqinisekisa ukuthi intsha iyawathola amakhono, amathuba emisebenzi futhi ikwazi ukuzimela ngokuthi ibe namabhizinisi ayo. Intsha yamantombazane ithola amathuba angcono kwezohwebo, ezikoleni ngisho nasemphakathini jikelele. Siyazi nathi ukuthi uma ungumuntu wesifazane ucindezeleke kathathu. Yingakho-ke iphupho lika 50-50 lizofezeka.

Namuhla intsha iyakhuthazwa ukuthi ibambe iqhaza kwi-National Youth Service ukuze ibe namakhono ewathole ngokuvolontiya. Bathi ngolimi lwesimanjemanje, “Uzoyithola kanjani uhlezi ekhoneni?”

Inselelo enkulu ukuthi uhulumeni omkhulu aqaphele ukuthi ingqalasizinda iba khona kohulumeni bezifundazwe nakomasipala. Kumele nathi singamalungu, kuwo wonke emakomidini esihlala kuwo, sibuze uMnyango ngamunye ukuthi ngabe unazo yini izinhlelo ezibhekene nabasha nonokuthi yimalini ebekelwe lezo zinhlelo. Nodaba lwamathenda futhi, ngabe intsha iyafinyelela kuwo na? Izuza malini ukuze nakuyona kube nenqubekela-phambili?

Lapha ePhalamende kumele senze izincomo kuye uSihlalo weNdlu yoMkhandlu Kazwelonke Wezifundazwe ukuthi kwakhiwe i-youth caucus. I-youth caucus lena kungaba yiyona ezokweluleka uSihlalo Womkhandlu kanye namalungu emakomitini nasezinhlelweni zonke zeNdlu Yomkhandlu.

Ikomidi elikhona, leli okuthiwa yi-Joint Monitoring Committee alixoxi ngokwanele ngezindaba zentsha kodwa lithatha amashansi. Masingaxoxi kuphela ngentsha ngoba kuyinyanga kaJuni nePhalamende Lentsha kepha wonke unyaka kufuneka sixoxe ngazo izindaba ezibhekene nentsha.

Ngithemba ukuthi amalungu azovumelana nalokhu. Ngiyabonga, Sihlalo. (Translation of isiZulu speech follows.)

[Ms N F MAZIBUKO: Chairperson and the members, the Chairperson of the NCOP spoke as if he was reading from my speech. He took all of my points; nevertheless, I will touch on the few that he has left out.

The former President of the ANC, Comrade Oliver Reginald Tambo, said the following in English, and I quote: “A country that does not honour its youth, does not deserve its future.”

What did he mean by these words? He meant that the country should honour the youth. He meant that it should not just recognise them but also be proud of them, and respect their rights because these very youth are the leaders of tomorrow.

This year Parliament adopted the theme: “Let us deepen the debate, South Africa”. When we deepen the debate, we need to look back to 1976 and to the 1980s, when we were still the youth, and reflect on where we come from with the struggle of fighting for our rights.

It was the youth that was at the forefront of the struggle. They were toyi- toying, using the infamous “necklaces” and petrol bombs, and the police knew that their vehicles were always stoned. The police were also using teargas. It was very tense. When there were events like bus boycotts, consumer boycotts and black Christmas, it was the youth who made sure that people honoured rules of the struggle. It was the youth who made sure that there were no sellouts who sneaked out and went to work or went out to buy in town. When you were found in town, you were made to drink the Sta-soft or the oil that you bought.

After the acquisition of freedom, we as the youth of the African National Congress felt that many young people lost their lives as a result of taking part in the struggle. Others are languishing in jail, and some find themselves being unskilled and uneducated because there was no time to attend school then. During that time even text books were burnt. Most of us succeeded only when Cosas introduced the “Pass one, pass all” slogan.

The youth of the 1980s was referred to as the lost generation. During the 1990s, after we had voted, the youth was referred to as the Boom Shaka generation because they were dancing to the music of the group known as Boom Shaka. And the throwing of stones was over then and the focus of the struggle was on building the infrastructure so that the youth could also be represented in Parliament.

It is only the ANC Youth League which proposed that there be a youth ministry, but you all know that we cannot get all that we want. At least the Youth Commission was established which was to ensure that the voice of the youth is heard and all the programmes of government are able to address the challenges and the difficulties facing the youth.

The Youth Commission then formed the Umsobomvu Youth Fund which ensures that the youth get skills, work opportunities, and become independent entrepreneurs. Female youth get better opportunities in businesses, at schools and in communities. We also know that if you are a female you are triple oppressed and that is why the 50-50 dream will be realised.

These days the youth is encouraged to take part in the National Youth Service so as to get skills through volunteering. They say, in today’s lingo: “How will you get it if you are seated in the corner?”

The major challenge is for the national government to ascertain that there is infrastructure in provincial governments as well as in municipalities. As the members of different committees we also need to ask each department if there are programmes in place for the youth and funds allocated to those programmes. And also, regarding tenders, are they accessible to the youth? How much profit do they make out of this for their progress?

Here in Parliament we need to make recommendations to the Chairperson of the NCOP for the establishment of the youth caucus. The youth caucus would advise the Chairperson of the NCOP and committee members on all the programmes of the NCOP.

The present committee, known as the Joint Monitoring Committee, does not discuss in detail issues concerning youth but it simply puts them shallowly. We must not only talk about youth issues in June only and during the Youth Parliament, but we must discuss youth issues right throughout the year.

I just hope that members will agree with this.

Thank you, Chairperson.]

Vho O M THETJENG: Mudzulatshidulo na vhashumisani-nganne, namusi ndi dauvha lavhudi ngauri ri khou ya u sedza zwa vhaswa. Ri khou ya u sedza uri vhaswa vha re hone shangoni lashu ri do vha thusa hani. Muhulisei, kha vha ri ndi thome nga u sumbedzisa uri kha Mulayotewa washu, vhaswa vhashu vha tea u itelwa zwithu zwine zwa nga thusa heli shango. (Translation of Tshivenda paragraph follows.)

[Mr O M THETJENG: Chairperson and my colleagues, today is a good day because we are going to focus on the youth activities. We are going to look at the ways in which we can help the youth in our country. Hon Chairperson, let me begin by making it clear that our Constitution states that our youth must be provided with things that can help this country.]

Today we are debating how the youth’s participation can be deepened through the provision of services. Our Constitution recognises a youth to be a person over the age of 18 years but does not provide a ceiling and the point at which one does outgrow this phenomenon.

Various governments throughout the world have their own definitions or descriptions of what youth is. The following are some of the definitions of youth. The United Nations General Assembly defines a youth as a person falling between the ages of 15 and 24 years; the World Bank says it’s a person between 15 and 25 years of age; the USA says it’s anybody less than 21 years of age; and the Tasmanian government says it’s anybody between the ages of 12 and 25 years.

These are just some of the examples in terms of time lines, but it seems to me that 25 years is the average age worldwide. Our country, in terms of its operations, may not be limited by this definition because of our history. Be that as it may, we do have a guide to determine when one does graduate from being a youth, based on the above guidelines.

The National Youth Commission was established by the National Youth Commission Act, Act 19 of 1996, as amended in 2000. The National Youth Commission was then launched on June 6, 1996. The relevance of this body is questionable, particularly in as far as service provision is concerned. The DA has not seen its impact on the youth of this country in general, other than being an employment agency for the ANC Youth League members who sometimes use it as a ticket to come to Parliament. The majority of the youth in this country do not associate themselves with this body as it is irrelevant to them.

The other youth structure that has been formed is the Umsobomvu Youth Fund. One of its tenets is the promotion of economic citizenship for the young people. There are approximately 19 million young people in South Africa today and about 7,8% of them are unemployed. This is according to the website of the Umsobomvu Youth Fund, as accessed today. Seven out of every 10 black youth are unemployed and one in five believes that they will never get a job. This is a staggering statistic that should provide enough energy for government to intervene and provide direction. Do we need this entity that is the Umsobomvu Youth Fund? I believe not. [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon member, can I respond to hon Shiceka?

Mr S SHICEKA: Chairperson, with your permission, I want to ask the hon member whether he will take a question.

Mr O M THETJENG: As soon as I have finished I will take your question.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): He doesn’t want to take a question. You may proceed, hon member. Mr O M THETJENG: Do we need this entity? No. The Department of Trade and Industry should be utilised to steer this programme appropriately.

The Deputy President of this country, hon Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka, in her speech on 14 April 2007 at the Botshabelo stadium in Bloemfontein, indicated that 48% of the youth in this country is unemployed. Surely, this is a staggering figure for a young democracy like ours. There are just too many structures that are blocking the emancipation of the youth in this country and those must be done away with.

I would like to ask various questions. I am not really sure but let me ask this question, maybe they can respond to it. Is the ANC government interested in all youths of different races in this country? Well, if you are white, you must paint yourself black so that you can be relevant. Are the white youths to blame for apartheid? [Interjections.] No. But why do they suffer in securing job opportunities? We say the youth must be provided with services, yet there are ways that are being used that really discriminate against the youth. The youth have nothing to do with the past, but have everything to do with the future, yet day in and day out they are being discriminated against. [Interjections.]

Surely a day is to come on which, when we look back as a country, we will regret some of the laws that have been put in place. [Interjections.] Let us provide a service to all youths and not discriminate against some based on their skin pigmentation. The South African youth is youth. The South African youth is not to blame for what happened in the past. They must be treated in the same way because they are South Africans.

The community development workers are not meant to confuse the ward committees’ work, but we see every day how the two structures clash. Only ANC card-carrying members get opportunities to become community development workers. Now you need to have a card so that you can be a member. Are we saying, as country and as Parliament, that we are treating you as the same? The youth is not to blame for what happened in the past. Therefore as a country …

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon member, there is a point of order … Hon Chief Whip?

The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Chairperson, it’s not acceptable for a member to mislead the House. Will the member publicly … [Inaudible.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): It’s a direct question, member. I think you will respond to that …

Mr O M THETJENG: As soon as I have finished speaking, I will respond. Let us broaden the scope and definition of youth to mean all South Africans in this country as unified as we are and not become sectoral in terms of defining who the youths are.

Chairperson, through you, I believe today we should have youth from all provinces here, as the NCOP. Being a relevant body, we should be having youth from all political parties, from all communities. While debating in this Chamber, I really challenge the House and say: ANC, as a relevant body, let us engage the youth in the provinces for them to come and debate. Let us hear what they have to say because now, as we are here, we are speaking for them. Let them speak and come here. We should be sitting out there, looking at what they do. [Interjections.]

Chairperson, let us allow South Africans to grow without any limitations. I say youth in this country must be given equal opportunities and we should not give opportunities to some while some are being discredited for being what they are. God has made all of us. When you are given a particular pigmentation, it should not be a problem but it should be a situation where you are treated in terms of this Constitution and in terms of what you can do. The skills are needed in this country. All of us must join hands and say: Viva, youth of South Africa, viva! [Interjections.] [Applause.] [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): I am not sure whether that is a standing ovation to the hon Thetjeng for the speech that he has made, but we can proceed.

Ms A N T MCHUNU: Hon Chairperson and hon members, June is the month for recognising the youth with proper direction and a sense of responsibility, hence the programme of deepening youth participation through service. In all developmental stages children have basic needs, that is food, water, education, love, recognition, self-esteem leading to self-actualisation as Maslow’s theory of needs states. A child needs to have all its needs satisfied in order to grow into a well-balanced human and eventually a well- balanced adult. To serve means to give of your best so that whoever you serve may come back again for more or to consult you.

Deepening youth participation through service means giving and taking services to the youth and by the youth to society to improve the quality of life of all South Africans. On 16 June we as South Africans will commemorate the march of 16 June 1976, as well as the lives of all our youth that were lost on that day and on other days of the struggle. All the youth who were involved in 16 June need to see the fruits of their struggle, but the struggle still goes on. The June programme is said to address youth unemployment, homelessness, which may ultimately lead to self- destruction through drug abuse, dangerous sexual behaviour or even homicide or suicide.

Education is a key to deepening youth participation for quality service. The youth has to be in school to learn, be it at FET colleges, technikons or universities. Their right to learn should not be compromised because at the end of the day, the youth would be expected to render service. Government and the unions therefore have to ensure speedy solutions to the present pay dispute impasse, so that educators are in a position to go back to their learners in the classrooms. HIV/Aids and TB are decimating our communities, leaving orphans who need to be guided and directed, so that they too become good citizens who can serve others. All stakeholders such as parents, relatives or educators, social workers, the churches, and the NGOs, the fathers’ unions or mothers’ unions and other groups should make a concerted effort to serve the youth with their needs, be they physical or mental, psychological, emotional or spiritual. In this way our youth will be developed into total human beings, capable of serving other citizens in a deeper manner, with commitment, integrity and humility. The IFP salutes the youth of the past who contributed to South Africa positively to make it what it is today. All programmes should include the youth from all sectors in the communities as a way forward. That is, for instance, the National Youth Service. I thank you. [Applause.]

Ms B L MATLHOAHELA: Hon Chairperson, hon colleagues, South Africa’s unemployment rate is currently estimated at 26,2%. Unemployment amongst the youth is estimated at 69,6%, constituting approximately 5,5 million people in South Africa. Women specifically form the majority of unemployed youth at 3,1 million. It is clear, therefore, that unemployment is worst amongst young people, and that there are currently very few opportunities for young South Africans to engage in economic activities.

We have to make sure that the National Youth Commission and the provincial commissions operate more effectively in order to improve the lives and future outlook for our youth. To date we have not seen enough substantive action from these commissions to curb the unemployment crisis, and yet millions of rands go in their coffers every year.

Today the ID wants to call for the Umsobomvu Youth Fund to be overhauled and made more accessible to young South Africans. Greater financial, technical and training support should be provided to young entrepreneurs. We call for the establishment of learnership agreements with employers to benefit long-term unemployed young people. There should be development of comprehensive economic empowerment strategies for young people specifically. These must also be implemented and not just remain as strategies on paper. There should also be co-ordinated internship programmes to address the lack of skills through the involvement of the public and private sector.

The time for action is now. Before I conclude, I want to make a proposal in remembrance of 16 June. Why can’t we MPs change places with the youth who are without toilets at their places for one week twice a year? Thank you. [Interjections.]

Mr R J TAU: Chairperson, I think I would be making a very serious mistake if I did not address the issues that the hon Thetjeng has raised.

In actual fact, the hon Thetjeng has experienced the very same issues in his province, in Limpopo, that he is raising here. That is why he is not a provincial chairperson. [Laughter.] It is because of the colour of his skin. [Interjections.]

Nevertheless, I think it would never be correct for us not to remember the role of young people and the extent to which young people have contributed towards the transformation of our society. Taking us back to 1912, we recall that the very same person who made the clarion call for umZulu, umXhosa and umShangane and everybody to be united was a young person. That young person continued to mobilise our young people up to the point of 1944, when the young people, under the banner of the ANC, thought it fit to organise to form the ANC Youth League.

It is now time for us to look at that particular role of young people, even beyond what we are looking at now at this moment, which is 16 June. It was intellectual young people who saw it fit of course, at that particular moment, because they were not young people who saw themselves in isolation of the general populace of the country. They were intellectuals in their own right – they were lawyers, some of them were doctors, some of them were intellectuals in other fields – and they saw it fit for them to come together and organise the South African youth.

Of course, there were others with a working class background, leading up to a point where even these very same young people mobilised and volunteered their services, going from door to door, asking South Africans in what kind of South Africa they wanted to live under the leadership and voluntarism of Nelson Mandela, leading up to the adoption of the Freedom Charter, which says, ``South Africa belongs to all who live in it.’’

At that time, when they were moving around, mobilising people, they were still young people. They saw South Africa as belonging to all the young people in South Africa, irrespective of creed, colour or gender orientation. [Interjections.]

It was those very same young people who understood and assisted this country and the working class in particular and organisations to understand South Africa’s oppression, up to a point of even characterising it as colonialism of a special type. The young people of this particular country – not young people who were black, not young people who were coloured, but the young people who came together - realised that in our country, in actual fact, our oppression is beyond the question of race. [Interjections.] It is also an oppression of class. It is also an oppression of gender. As a result, they came to a particular understanding.

It was those young people, again, who were able, with that understanding in 1969 … [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon members, I will tolerate heckling, but not continuous interjections when an hon member is speaking. [Interjections.]

Mr R J TAU: Well, of course, unfortunately, I know my problem.

It is of course these very same young people, having understood South African oppression to be a colonisation of a special type, who laid the basis to mobilise further young people up to a point of rising against the system in 1976, not to replace white supremacy with black supremacy. In actual fact, it was about rising against a system which they saw as unfit, which they saw as unhealthy, which they saw as a crime against humanity, as declared by the United Nations at that particular time.

It is therefore on that basis that these young people today were there before today, who are the very same young people who, beyond 1976, were at the forefront of mobilising of what we used to call the rudimentary organs of people’s power, looking at sectoral interests, mobilising all society in all sectors to belong and be one front because the people’s organisation was banned by a very racist regime that did not want a South Africa that belonged to all those who lived in it. [Interjections.]

It is these very same young people who saw South Africa. It is for that particular reason that, as we participate in this debate today, we make that kind of reflection because if we don’t do that, seriously incorrect conclusions may be reached, as the hon Thetjeng showed. [Interjections.]

It is because of that that we call upon all young people in our country to fight, of course, as they were dedicated before, like our forefathers were dedicated against poverty, against disease, against illiteracy and against absolute consumerism, which is a pillar of the DA’s liberal ideology, and the individualism that is being put to young people to seek to be all about what you have and about what you can consume, to display wealth, and not to care about the next person that you are with. [Interjections.]

We call on our young people to refuse to be drawn into individualism, but instead must strive and fight for collectivism, where they will be able to mobilise the collective effort to build an economy that would be able to assist them to fight crime and discrimination.

We further call on young people to take up the advantages, as put today, of the programme led by the Department of Public Works in terms of this month’s programme, which in the main is a programme that seeks to skill young people to stand up on their own in the building industry or to negate monopoly thinking – the so-called thinking that, in actual fact, the building industry should be monopolised by a particular class or race that exists within our society. [Interjections.]

Therefore, we call upon young people to take advantage of this kind of situation that has been put by our government today to fight against the conditions. [Interjections.] Young people must mobilise their communities, and in particular the stokvels, burial societies and vendors to form co- operatives that will enable them to harmonise all their economic activities to take place where they live. [Interjections.] They shouldn’t see themselves in isolation of the broader transformation that is taking place in our country.

In conclusion, in remembrance of all those who came before us, in remembrance of all those who fought for us, in remembrance of all those who died for us, and in remembrance of all those who were sent into oblivion, we need to bow our heads. Those who participated in the apartheid regime structures must in actual fact, on a day like this, feel ashamed of themselves. [Interjections.] They need to stand up and apologise for what they stood for. [Interjections.] They need to stand up and apologise to the young people of this country today who do not have role models because they were murdered, who do not … [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): I want to take a point of order from the hon Watson. [Interjections.]

Mr A WATSON: I am rising to the challenge by the speaker. I apologise for apartheid, unashamedly. You must stop … [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Mr R J TAU: Chairperson, I thank him very much. We do have an official and public apology today in this House, but that apology should not only stop as an apology. It should also go beyond an apology by actively trying to ensure that young people don’t hold to the inculcation that the present government or the present state is a racist state. It must be an apology that must go out and say, ``It is important, irrespective of where the 16 June event is, that young people of all races go and join those there. Young people must come out of the suburbs and join those, wherever the activities are. [Interjections.]

Young people must not be drawn into participating, of course respecting the sporting codes that are there, but in actual fact, we should not stand up or oppose those who say that there must be some restructuring of the Comrades Marathon to allow young people to also participate in political activities that have been organised in the country. [Interjections.]

Let me conclude by saying this: Let us bow our heads and remember Comrade Anton Lembede, Nelson Mandela, Oliver Reginald Tambo, Malome Kotane, Solomon Mahlangu, James Letswalo, Zola and many, many others, in particular those who dedicated their lives to enable us debate the role of young people today in a democratic society. [Interjections.] [Applause.]

Debate concluded.

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Can I take your point of order? I thought that an hon member makes a point of order when a member is on the floor, unless you want to make a point of order against me. Can I get your point?

Mr A WATSON: If you’re not sure, how can I be sure?

I just want to rise and repeat another challenge. Will the previous speaker, or any other member of the ANC, apologise for the reverse apartheid practised by black economic empowerment against other youth? [Interjections.]

The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): No, you are out of order. [Interjections.] The House adjourned at 16:45. ____

            ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS

ANNOUNCEMENTS

National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

The Speaker and the Chairperson

1. Classification of Bills by Joint Tagging Mechanism

(1)     The Joint Tagging Mechanism, in terms of Joint Rule 160(6),
     classified the following Bills as section 75 Bills:


     (a)     South African Express Bill [B 14 – 2007] (National Assembly
         – sec 75).


     (b)     Taxation Laws Second Amendment Bill [B 19 – 2007] (National
         Assembly – sec 75).


(2)     The Joint Tagging Mechanism, in terms of Joint Rule 160(6),
     classified the following Bill as a section 77 Bill:
      a) Taxation Laws Amendment Bill [B 18 – 2007].

COMMITTEE REPORTS National Assembly and National Council of Provinces

1. Report of the Joint Constitutional Review Committee, dated 25 May 2007:

   The Joint Committee on Constitutional Review met with Mr B Druchen, National Director, and a delegation from DEAF South Africa, on 16 February 2007. The Committee had agreed to meet DEAFSA after receiving a request from them, to make representations to have South African Sign Language constitutionally recognized as the 12th official language.

   DEAFSA was requested to provide additional information regarding the implications of such an amendment, in order to enhance further deliberations.

   The Committee met on 16 March 2007 and had an in-depth discussion on the DEAFSA representation.

   The Joint Committee on Constitutional Review wishes to express its appreciation for the comprehensive motivation that was presented by DEAFSA, in its endeavors to have South Africa Sign Language (SASL) recognized as the 12th official language:

   The Joint Committee on Constitutional Review -

   1.      agrees that the status quo is unacceptable and
       discriminatory, as is being experienced by an appreciable
       section of our community;
   2.      recognizes that the accommodation of SASL as the 12th
       official language will have significant logistical and
       budgetary implications which would have to be investigated;
   3.      requests the Minister in the Presidency to consider
       convening a task team in conjunction with the Minister of
       Arts and Culture and Minister of Education to investigate
       this matter; and
   4.      urges the Pan South African Language Board to give
       credence to the instruction in section 6(5)(a)(iii) of the
       Constitution to promote SASL and report back to Parliament on
       progress that has been made in this regard.
   
   
   Report to considered.
   

National Council of Provinces

1. Report of the Select Committee on Finance on the Municipal Fiscal Powers and Functions Bill [B 9B– 2007] (National Assembly – sec 75), dated 13 June 2007:

   The Select Committee on Finance, having considered and examined the Municipal Fiscal Powers and Functions Bill [B 9B – 2007] (National Assembly – sec 75), referred to it, and classified by the Joint Tagging Mechanism a Section 75 Bill, reports that it has agreed to the Bill.