National Council of Provinces - 05 March 2008
Wednesday, 5 march 2008 __
Proceedings of the national council of provinces
____
The Council met at 15:01.
The Acting Chairperson took the Chair and requested members to observe a moment of silence for prayers or meditation.
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS – see col 000.
NOTICES OF MOTION
The Acting CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Does any member wish to give notice of a motion?
Mnr J W LE ROUX: Waarnemende Voorsitter, ek gee hiermee kennis dat ek op die volgende sittingsdag sal voorstel:
Dat die Raad kennis neem –
1) dat die helfte van die munisipaliteite van die Wes-Kaap se water
erg besoedel is, naamlik die munisipaliteite Bergrivier, Kaap
Agulhas, Cederberg, Sentrale Karoo, Eden-distrik, Stellenbosch en
nog talle ander;
2) dat die hoë vlakke van E.coli-besmetting ’n ernstige
gesondheidsgevaar inhou vir verbruikers;
3) dat die besoedelde water gebruik word om landbouprodukte te
besproei en dat dit ons uitvoermark in gevaar stel;
4) dat die owerheid onmiddellik aandag aan hierdie probleem moet gee
en moet sorg dat infrastruktuur in stand gehou en verbeter word; en
5) dat ons nie ’n Eskom-tragedie met ons water wil hê nie.
Ek dank u. (Translations of Afrikaans notice of motion follows.)
[Mr J W LE ROUX: Acting Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Council notes that –
1) there is severe contamination of the water of half of the
municipalities in the Western Cape, namely those of Berg River,
Cape Agulhas, Cederberg, Central Karoo, Eden District, Stellenbosch
and many others; 2) the high levels of E.coli contamination pose a serious health risk to
consumers:
3) the contaminated water is used to irrigate agricultural products,
which is endangering our export market;
4) the authorities should pay immediate attention to this problem and
should see to it that infrastructure is maintained and upgraded;
and
(5) we do not want an Eskom tragedy with our water supply.]
Ms H LAMOELA: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That this House –
(1) notes that although matric results were published more than two months ago, and the new school year is already well under way, 33 learners at Chatty Senior Secondary School in Port Elizabeth have still not received their results for the matric exams because their exam papers have been lost by the education department;
(2) also notes that the lives of these learners have had to be put on hold while they wait for this bungle to be sorted out and that they cannot get jobs or proceed to higher education, yet no serious attention is being paid to finding a way to solve this problem;
(3) acknowledges that this is indicative of the disorder that prevails within the Eastern Cape’s department of education, where the Auditor-General has found the department to be riddled with fraud, unable to ensure that schools are run efficiently and unable to deliver basic services such as the school-feeding scheme; and
(4) realises that any improvement to the performance of our children in school needs to start with ensuring that basic administrative processes are in place, and that, in this regard, the Eastern Cape department of education, and many others across the country, have failed dismally.
I thank you.
Mr A WATSON: Chairperson, I hereby give notice that on the next sitting day of the House I shall move:
That the Council –
1) extends its sincere congratulations to the Mpumalanga Schools
Swimming Team for their performance in the National Schools
Swimming Championships that took place over the past weekend, for
high school learners in East London and for primary school learners
in Cape Town, respectively;
2) notes that these youngsters had to endure troubling times when the
national Department of Sport and Recreation, at the last minute,
announced its withdrawal of funds towards the event, leaving at
least 43 high school and seven primary school swimmers from
Mpumalanga without transport and accommodation;
3) further notes that despite these trials and tribulations, and
despite not having a full team, these youngsters excelled at the SA
Schools Swimming Championships held over the past weekend, and did
the Mpumalanga province proud, with the primary school swimmers
winning three gold medals, one silver and one bronze medal, and one
silver medal for the high school swimmers;
4) congratulates the swimmers in the Mpumalanga Schools Swimming Team,
for their excellent performance, and the leadership and organisers
of Mpumalanga Swimming, who, despite these challenges, managed to
source funding to ensure that swimmers of our province attended the
championship; and
5) calls upon the Department of Education and the department of
culture, sport and recreation to consider the possibility of
assisting Mpumalanga Swimming to meet the financial obligations of
the past weekend.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON (Ms P M Hollander): Thank you, hon Watson. [Interjections.] I am still in the Chair. Thank you. [Laughter.] Order! Is there any other member who wishes to give notice of a motion? None.
WELCOMING OF MINISTERS
I would therefore like to welcome to this House the hon Minister Balfour, Minister of Correctional Services, and the Deputy Minister of Correctional Services.
WELCOMING OF DELEGATIONFROM JOHANNESBURG METRO
Before I continue, I have just received a notification that a delegation of councillors from Johannesburg Metro are in the gallery. I would like to welcome and acknowledge their presence in this House. They are members of the finance and economic affairs and are on a study tour. Welcome to the sitting of this House. [Applause.]
RACISM AT UNIVERSITY OF FREE STATE
(Draft Resolution)
Mr B J TOLO: Acting Chair, I want to move without notice:
That the Council –
1) notes with concern the shocking, inhumane and racist video
depicting four white male students of the University of the Free
State humiliating African employees, which entailed bizarre acts of
enforced drinking, participating in a race and being asked to kneel
and eat food which had been urinated upon;
2) further notes that this racist act at the Free State University at
its Reitz hostel, reminds us of other such acts, namely –
a) Skierlik in the North West, where 18-year-old Johan Nel shot
and killed four black people;
b) of white high school students in Newcastle, who welcomed
their newly appointed principal with booing and chanting of
Bok van Blerk’s De la Rey anthem;
c) of many more often unreported sufferings which our people
still endure at the hands of some white racists;
3) condemns in no uncertain terms these barbaric and inhuman acts;
4) calls upon those white citizens who still harbour and propagate
racism tendencies to stop forthwith as these tendencies are not
part of their biological make-up, and reminds them that there are
no people in the world whose patience is endless;
5) also calls on the university to speed up transformation and take
firm disciplinary steps that would show total rejection of racism
in all its forms;
6) further calls on the Department of Education and the Human Rights
Commission to urgently investigate the activities of the Here XVII,
FF+ and Solidarity on the campus and to allow the full might of the
law to take its course.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Thank you, hon Tolo. I would like to request that the members give the other member who is speaking a chance to complete what he/she is saying. Is there any objection to the motion? Please raise your objection.
Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: The objection is that this motion should have been circulated between the parties. It was not circulated, and it is the first time that I hear about it. Again, I object to the racist tone that is included in that motion.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): So, what is your actual objection?
Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: My objection is that firstly, this was not circulated amongst the parties. It is the first time that I hear about this. My second objection is that it is a sensitive issue and the third one is that it should have been discussed or at least circulated within the parties. The fourth objection is to the accusations of racism against my party. I object to that.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Hon member, I am sorry to say this, but this is a motion without notice. Therefore, it does not need to be circulated amongst the parties in the first place. Will you please take your seat? The motion is agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution. Hon Combrink?
Mr G R KRUMBOCK: It is actually Krumbock, Acting Chairperson. Anyway, I am not objecting to the motion. I happen to agree with the motion. I just want to make that clear, but with due respect, Acting Chairperson, I think something is really incorrect, because you do not have to supply a reason to object when changing a notice of motion into a motion without notice. I suggest you check the Rules.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): I have checked the Rules and I thank you again for your input, but I am saying again it does not need to be circulated amongst parties, because it is a motion that is being passed. The objection is not an objection. So, I have passed the motion as agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Let us continue. Thank you. Are there any further motions without notice?
BUS ACCIDENT IN MPUMALANGA
(Draft Resolution)
Mnr A WATSON: Agbare Voorsitter, namens die DA stel ek hiermee sonder kennisgewing voor:
Dat die Raad -
(1) ’n onvoorwaardelike mosie van meegevoel aanvaar met die slagoffers van die tragiese busramp vanoggend op die hoofpad tussen Witrivier en Nelspruit in die munisipale gebied van Mbombela in Mpumalanga;
(2) verder kennis neem dat tot enkele minute gelede, 16 mense reeds volgens berigte van hul beserings omgekom het en ’n verdere 80 se toestand wissel van ernstig tot kritiek;
(3) sy meegevoel uitspreek teenoor die geliefdes van die gestorwenes en die beseerdes spoedige beterskap toewens, asook verligting van hul lyding, en bid dat geen verdere verlies van lewe sal voorkom nie; en
(4) onderskraging toewens aan die direkteure en personeel van die Matstrans-busmaatskappy, wat ’n uitstaande rekord vir veiligheid en vir die puik toestand van al hulle busse het. (Translation of Afrikaans draft resolution follows.)
[Mr A Watson: Hon Chairperson, on behalf of the DA I hereby move without notice:
That the Council -
(1) accepts an unconditional motion of sympathy with the victims of this morning’s tragic bus disaster on the main road between White River and Nelspruit in the Mbombela municipal area of Mpumalanga;
(2) further notes that until a few minutes ago according to reports 16 people had died from their injuries and the condition of a further 80 varied from serious to critical;
(3) expresses its sympathy with the loved ones of the deceased, wishes the injured a speedy recovery as well as an alleviation of their suffering and prays that no further loss of life will occur; and
(4) wishes strength to the directors and staff of the Matstrans bus company, which has an outstanding record for safety and the excellent condition of all its buses.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.]
CHAIRPERSON OF NCOP IN HOSPITAL
(Draft Resolution)
Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council -
1) notes that the Chairperson of the Council, the Hon Mr M J Mahlangu,
has been hospitalised and has recently undergone an operation at
the Christiaan Barnard Hospital;
2) takes this opportunity to convey its thoughts and prayers and to
wish the hon Mahlangu a speedy recovery and continuing good health;
and
3) trusts that he will draw his strength from his durable and
resilient spirit and by knowing that he is in our thoughts and that
we are all hoping and praying that he will soon be enjoying better
health.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
SOUTH AFRICAN WOMAN MARRIED AND ABUSED IN BANGLADESH
(Draft Resolution)
Ms B L NTEMBE: Chairperson, when you are in the Chair, I don’t say Deputy Chairperson, for when you are in the Chair, you are chairing as Chairperson. [Applause.][Laughter.]
I move without notice:
That the Council –
1) notes that a written affidavit complaint has been received by the
Independent Democrats from a South African mother whose South
African daughter, married to a Bangladeshi citizen, was mistreated,
neglected, abused and threatened with death should she make contact
with her family in South Africa;
2) notes that this South African citizen is pleading for help to come
back to South Africa;
3) conveys dismay at foreign male citizens coming to South Africa to
use South African women to their advantage and then abusing,
neglecting and abandoning them; and
(4) expresses the need for us to address these issues by facilitating discussions and/or debates for more strict legislation on how to protect our South African women against this evil trend.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Excuse me. Is it an objection or what?
Mr R J TAU: I was asking if I need to motivate it.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): You have to motivate.
Mr R J TAU: Okay, fine. Chairperson, if one listens to the motion, as much as the issues in terms of the content are serious in terms of abuse of women and so forth, the general thrust of the motion smacks of xenophobia because it calls upon us standing against foreigners and so forth. So, I am raising that point to object.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a notice of motion. I have now made a ruling. What is your point of order now?
Mr G R KRUMBOCK: My point of order is that it is exactly the opposite of the ruling you made for the other objection. So, why did you …
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Will you please sit down, Kombrick, as I have already made my ruling. Will you sit down?
Mr G R KRUMBOCK: Who are you addressing, Madam Chair? There is no Kombrick in this House. After nine years you should get my name right. After nine years, please get my name right.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Will you sit down. I have told you three times and after this I will put you out. Thank you.
CONGRATULATIONS TO ERNIE ELS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr M A MZIZI: Acting Chairperson, I hereby move without notice:
That the Council -
1) notes that South Africa’s foremost golfer Ernie Els won the Honda
Classic golf tournament in Florida, USA, on Sunday;
2) further notes that with this victory, which is the Big Easy’s first
on the PGA tour in four years, Els has moved up to third place in
the world golf rankings; and
3) congratulates Els on his fine victory and wishes him the best of
luck for future tournament wins.
Motion agreed to in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution
CONGRATULATIONS TO PROTEAS
(Draft Resolution)
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: I move without notice:
That the Council –
1) congratulates the South African cricket team, the Proteas, on their
2-0 victory over Bangladesh in the 5-Day test series; and
(2) further congratulates Graeme Smith and Neil MacKenzie on their world record-breaking opening partnership during the last test against Bangladesh, during which both scored in excess of 200 runs.
Mr G R KRUMBOCK: Since you are taking objections by debate today, Madam Chairperson, I believe Graeme Pollock retired about 38 years ago. Perhaps you should change it to Graeme Smith. I know he is campaigning for cheap votes but the current Proteas Captain is Graeme Smith and not Graeme Pollock.
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Chairperson, I think they didn’t hear: I said Graeme Smith. [Laughter.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Order! In light of the objection the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a motion of notice because he used the wrong name.
Mr O M THETJENG: I believe there was a correction of a name and I believe …
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): If there is a correction on a name, it is still an objection because it is not the correct name. So, will you please sit down? I have already made a ruling. So, sit down.
UDM ATTRACTING MEMBERS FROM ANC
(Draft Resolution)
Mrs A N D QIKANI: Thank you, Chair, I move without notice:
That the House –
(1) notes that …
... umbutho i-UDM usoloko usithi gqolo ufumana amalungu amatsha,
oku kusibonakalisa ukuba abantu baseMzantsi Afrika basakholelwa
kumbono wawo othi, i-UDM likhaya labo bonke abantu baseMzantsi
Afrika;
(2) ukuba kwiCawe edlulileyo, umhla wama-24 kweyoMdumba kowama- 2008, i-UDM ibisamkela amalungu amatsha aphuma kumbutho kaKhongolose, i-ANC, amalunga nama-300, eSamora Machel apha eKapa; (Translations of isiXhosa paragraphs follows.)
[(1) the UDM is constantly receiving new members and that this is an
indication that the people of South Africa still believe in its
mission that it is the home of the people of South Africa;
(2) on Sunday, 24 February 2008, the UDM welcomed approximately 300
new members from the ANC in Samora Machel in Cape Town;] and
(3) that the members are an illustration of the growing need for a
change among South Africans who are fully dedicated to democracy in
this country. They demonstrate that the UDM is a viable
alternative.
I thank you. [Interjections.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Order! Order! I’m not going to call for order again in this House. You are going to respect the Chair from this moment on. Thank you.
Is there any objection to the motion? Hon Ntwanambi, are you objecting? Will you please raise your objection.
Nksz N D NTWANAMBI: Sihlalo, ndiphakamisa okokuba esi sindululo sikaNksz Qikani singaxhaswa, ngezizathu zokuba asinabunyani, okokuqala, kwaye asiyondawo yokugaya iivoti le, okwesibini. [Kwaqhwatywa.] (Translation of isiXhosa paragraph follows.)
[Ms N D NTWANAMBI: Chairperson, I move that Mrs Qikani’s motion should not be supported, for the reasons that, firstly, there is no truth in it, and, secondly, this is not a platform for the canvassing of votes. [Applause.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): In light of the objection, the motion may not be proceeded with. The motion without notice will now become a notice of a motion. Thank you.
ELECTION OF Ms N D NTWANAMBI AS CHIEF WHIP OF NCOP
(Draft Resolution)
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mr T S Setona): Hon Acting Chairperson, on behalf of the Chairperson of the Council - and the ANC in particular- I want to present the motion which is about the election of the hon Nosipho Ntwanambi as the Chief Whip of the NCOP. [Applause.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): I will call upon the hon member to stand and address the House. Before we proceed, hon Ntwanambi, we will vote. There is no speakers’ list. I shall now put the question. The question is that the motion be agreed to. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their province’s votes. Are all the delegation heads present?
HON MEMBERS: Yes.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): In accordance with Rule 71, I shall first allow provinces an opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against or abstain from voting.
Ms B N DLULANE: IMpuma Koloni iyalixhasa igama lalo mama. [The Eastern Cape supports the name of this lady.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Free State?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Ondersteun. [Supports.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Gauteng?
Mnu E M SOGONI: SiyiGauteng, siyamxhasa Mama. [As Gauteng we support her, Ma’am.] The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mnu Z C NTULI: IKwaZulu-Natala iyalixhasa igama likaMam’ uNtwanambi. [KwaZulu-Natal supports the name of Ms Ntwanambi.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Limpopo re a thekga Mma go rena [Limpopo supports.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Mpumalanga supports.
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Noord-Kaap steun. [Northern Cape supports.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: North West ke ya rona. [North West supports.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Western Cape?
Mr N J MACK): Wes-Kaap ondersteun. Siyalixhasa. [Western Cape supports.]
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Nine provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the motion agreed to in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Hon Chief Whip, welcome to your new post. We wish you all the best. [Applause.] I will now afford the hon member the opportunity to say a few words.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Thank you, Chairperson. Given the time and the distance I would have to walk from here to the other side and because I would have to go right around and come back through that door, can I, just for today, speak from here? Please, Chair?
The ACTING CHAIRPERSON OF THE NCOP (Ms P M Hollander): Sure.
The CHIEF WHIP OF THE COUNCIL: Mhlalingaphambili, mandithathe le nxaxheba yokubulela kule Ndlu ngokundinika isidima esingaka, ngokuthi indinike uxanduva olukhulu kangaka. Asiyondlwana iyanetha le, … [Chairperson, let me take this opportunity to thank this House for the great honour it has bestowed upon me by giving me such a huge responsibility. This is no child’s play …]
… it is not child’s play. It is important that, when we are deployed to these positions, we always remember that it is not about an individual. Therefore, the collective will perform, and not Nosipho as a person. I think that is what we stand for as the ANC, and we will always make sure that we don’t look at individuals.
I also want to thank Comrade V V Windvoël for all the good work he has done. I think I will learn from the collective he has left behind. I will join that collective, and I will do my best to keep up the good work he has done, up to the next elections. Thank you very much, members and comrades. [Applause.]
CORRECTIONAL SERVICES AMENDMENT BILL
(Consideration of Bill and of Report thereon)
The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Oo, ndithethe nje? [Kwahlekwa.] [Oh, should I talk freely? [Laughter.]]
Chairperson, first of all, I must thank you for being so strict. At some stage I was a little bit worried that you are going to throw us out of the Chamber, if we don’t behave. [Laughter.] I was a little scared but now we have reached this stage.
Ek moet ook van Korrektiewe Dienste se kant ons steun gee vir kameraad Nosipho. Ons ondersteun die aanstelling. [From Correctional Services’ side we want to give our support to Comrade Nosipho. We support the appointment.]
Comrade Nosipho knows that we speak a lot of Afrikaans in Correctional Services.
En ons sê: Dankie, hek. Dankie. [Gelag.][Applous.] [And we say: Thank you, gate. Thank you. [Laughter.] [Applause.]]
We congratulate you on the appointment, Sisi, and your words of wisdom of working in a collective will always ring true. The ANC is the kind of organisation that works as a collective.
Hon Chairperson and members of this important House, the Deputy Minister of Correctional Services, who is with us; the National Commissioner of Correctional Services, Mr Vernie Petersen and his management team … Some of them are right up there or down here. You cannot miss that uniform when you see it. It is one lovely uniform.
It will always be an honour for me to address this august gathering of the NCOP for it represents spheres of government where real work takes place. No matter how ambitious and bold a policy and strategy developed by a national government department, its greatest test lies in what happens closer to the coalface or to service delivery, both provincially and at local level. Our Constitution enjoins us to continuously enhance co-operative governance in words and in deeds. At the forefront of the implementation of government’s programme of action are these two spheres of government who must actually receive, nourish and perfect, monitor and evaluate the implementation of any government programme. The ANC is very clear in this regard. It has declared that any conceptualisation, planning and executing of programmes of government must start and end with a local area of operation in mind if we are to develop policies and programmes that really make a difference in people’s lives where it matters most.
I therefore believe coming to this House for the presentation and adoption of the Correctional Services Amendment Bill just affirms that strong belief and that strong commitment to the centrality of provincial and local governance in all of government’s programmes of action. I recall addressing this House last year when presenting our Budget Vote speech. I placed a high premium on our national obligation to carry through a major social transformation that we introduced in 1994 and particularly in 1996 with the adoption of the new Constitution that was heralded the world over as pioneering and progressive. I further drew your attention to the long- standing tradition of visionaries in our society, who made a profound statement of policy as far back as 1955, when the Freedom Charter was adopted saying: “Imprisonment… shall aim at re-education, not vengeance.” It called upon our nation to limit incarceration of those who pose little or no danger to society. We are indeed on the same path, as we implement a multipronged approach to deal with issues of crime in our country. We have thousands of serious criminals who commit terrible crimes against society, like those who killed that baby on her mother’s back. They have now been sentenced to two life imprisonments each. They are going straight to Kokstad and that is where they will stay for a very long time. Some of those that have killed children, like the one who is now being sentenced today, Engelbrecht, if he gets two life sentences or less, he will still go to Kokstad.
Kokstad Correctional Centre is where there are zero chances of any escape; zero chances of maiming any of my officials. I have stated my wishes of having similar facilities in each region to deal effectively with this growing number of violent and aggressive offenders. An overwhelming number of our offenders right now are those with the potential for positively responding to our interventions aimed at correcting the offending behaviour, rehabilitation and integration back into society.
This amending Bill is particularly focused on these categories, some of whom are incarcerated through the sheer ravages of poverty as they are struggling to pay a small bail or fine. To give you an overview of what these amendments are all about, I would like to start with the language use, which we believe is an extremely powerful tool at the disposal of our nation. Through words we can create or destroy; hence we chose to create through the different labelling of “prisoner” as either “inmate” or “offender”. It is a change that we have constantly effected across the Correctional Services Act.
We have also reduced the age limit for children allowed to grow up with their incarcerated mothers. Those children have not done any wrong but it is the mothers who have been sentenced and they have nobody who can look after those children. We have reduced that from five years to two years because extensive research on human development raises questions of endemic damages that can be done by the incarceration of children for the greater part of their critical formative years from 0-7 years. This idea can only be realised if all players in the criminal justice system, the social sector and civil society, particularly families, put all their hands on deck to save this generation through appropriate placement. I would therefore like support on this: No child should grow up in a prison, not even if the mother is part of that. [Applause.] After two years that child must go and grow up in a normal environment. I am saying this as a father of four wonderful children.
For that reason, the Bill that we are dealing with today provides that community organisations, NGOs and religious denominations may be allowed by the National Commissioner of Correctional Services to interact with sentenced offenders in order to facilitate their rehabilitation and their integration into society.
During the discussion with the portfolio committee it was agreed that a further clause be inserted to provide for the screening of such organisations for security reasons and that the organisations must also be registered with the department. Given the centrality of effective communication in making these ideals as outlined in the White Paper on Correctional Services, we are giving policy effect to the unit management system in running correctional centres in section 37 of this Act. In essence, we seek to advance humane treatment of inmates. And when I say “humane” treatment, it just means that they need to be treated humanely but it does not mean that they have to live luxuriously. There is a difference there.
Restorative justice basts so that victims as well as the offenders can meet time and again so that they can be remorseful for what they have done to other people. Human development and a human rights approach to the treatment of offenders is needed. This I say, as well, to the offenders: When you deal with my officials, there must be humane treatment on both sides. Neither one of the sides is allowed to be inhuman to the other. This is not just in line with our Constitution but also with the various international protocols. As part of this transformation, we have made sentence planning for particularly sentenced offenders serving more than 24 months compulsory, replaced solitary confinement - and a number of you do know what it is like to be in solitary confinement - with segregation of ill-disciplined inmates. About those who are ill-disciplined and cannot look after themselves, we need to do something about them. We put them in correction programmes and we instil correct behaviour in them. This will be coupled with a loss of gratuity – again, those of you who were detained will know that they take some of your gratuities and rights away. We have coupled that with the loss of gratuity and restrictions of amenities for those who are ill-disciplined, who don’t acknowledge that they have done wrong. This corrective sanction, together with any use of mechanical restraint, must be reported to the National Commissioner and to the Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services immediately to ensure full accountability and no abuse of these measures.
We also seek to advance noncustodial sanctions for those posing little or no danger to society, as this helps in reducing reoffending chances. After extensive and fruitful engagements, both the portfolio committee and Kgoshi and his select committee have endorsed the granting of parole to lifers, subject to the recommendations of the National Council for Correctional Services and in alignment with the incarceration framework being developed by the NCCS for ratification by the Minister and approval by the relevant parliamentary committees. In these documents we are saying that we are not soft on criminals. When you do something wrong, we will send you away for a long time. If there is a chance that you can be rehabilitated, please participate in the programmes. In Kokstad we don’t have programmes. In Kokstad you are just put there to rot until you realise the folly of your ways. You are alone in a cell. We don’t play games there. We don’t send you there for rehabilitation. We are sending you there because you need to be put away. It is as simple as that.
The incarceration framework will be published as regulations in the Government Gazette to inform the general public. The select committee amended this clause for better understanding and to reflect the correct intention thereof, thereby avoiding any misrepresentation.
We have also agreed on the streamlining of the Office of the Inspecting Judge, with the appointment of a CEO by the National Commissioner, on recommendation from the Inspecting Judge. The addition of a clause on consultation of the Director-General of the Department of Public Service and Administration suggested by the portfolio committee has been changed by the select committee. The amendments by the select committee are to the effect that the Inspecting Judge would identify a suitable person to be appointed by the National Commissioner. A recommendation we made on relieving the Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services of having to deal with reports of corrupt and dishonest practices, we withdrew, after the portfolio committee’s concerns about the changes. The Judicial Inspectorate for Correctional Services will continue to facilitate the inspecting of prisons for reporting on treatment and conditions in all correctional centres as their core business while also handling reports of fraud, corruption and unethical behaviour. We strongly believe that these amendments are positioning Correctional Services better in order to enhance co-operation with the various players in the criminal justice system and in civil society in general. They are creating an enabling legislative framework for effective implementation of our strategic priority projects that include: Firstly, the phased implementation of the offender rehabilitation path and integrated intervention programme aimed at making impact at various stages of the offender life cycle; and secondly, the social reintegration programme that seeks to enhance interfacing correctional centres with society while creating a receptive environment for sustainable reintegration of these offenders.
These are but one of the programmes where various spheres of government can enhance their participation in corrections. We are steadily but surely advancing in mainstreaming corrections with campaigns like Operation Masibambisane, restorative justice and offender plough back into society. We are starting to see positive results with the Eastern Cape region’s partnership with the provincial legislature in the Eastern Cape and collaboration of the Western Cape region with various community and NGO structures carrying the flag of the ideal we seek to make a norm in correctional services delivery.
I believe together we have the will, the power, capacity and determination to build a safer and a more secure South Africa. Business as usual cannot help us accelerate the impact of these interventions, hence our call for ``business unusual’’.
I trust that the deliberations of this House will help reaffirm our determined march on this new development path, aimed at implementing the White Paper on Corrections successfully. I must, in the same breath, also thank the members, particularly of the select committee and other members of the House who actually take time out to visit some of these correctional centres and do spot-checks on what is going on. I really take my hat off for you for doing that. Thank you very much.
Kgoshi M L MOKOENA: Chairperson, the advantage of having dynamic Ministers in our government is that in explaining the purpose of the Bill all changes were correctly outlined. That’s wonderful! What remains for some of us is just to deal with minor issues only. On behalf of my committee, I would like to thank you, Minister, for doing such a wonderful job. That’s super. I will leave out some of the issues in this Bill because the Minister has outlined them so nicely for us that I don’t want to spoil them.
In this Bill, we are changing some of the terminology that was used in the principal Act. For example, what we used to call area managers will now be called commissioners. For example, in the principal Act we are still talking about “imprisonment”, but in this Bill we have changed that to “incarceration”. Another change in this Bill is that communities are now expected to play a role in the rehabilitation and integration of offenders. We have to understand that we are talking about people who are not just strangers. We are talking about our own people, our own sisters, our own sons, our own fathers, our own brothers and our own mothers who are in these unfortunate centres.
There were times when we expected the department to be the only player involved in rehabilitating offenders. There is no way this task of rehabilitating these offenders can only be the responsibility of the department. Rehabilitation cannot end in those correctional centres. By showing love and accepting these former offenders back into the society, we would be contributing immensely to rehabilitation.
If we do not do that, the danger is that we are pushing them away, and they will conclude that they are better off in correctional centres than in their own areas.
The good thing about this Bill is that the national commissioner can now allow NGOs, community organisations, religious organisations to interact with inmates now, just to make them feel that we are giving them a second chance. That will assist in making sure that when they come back into society they feel welcomed.
Members will remember that the principal Act limits the communication and visits by spouses, parents or relatives. That used to happen because the aim of our correctional facilities was just to punish and not to rehabilitate. But that has changed.
When we do our oversight visits to correctional centres, it is so heartbreaking and painful to find young children with their mothers inside those centres. The Act now allows mothers to keep their children with them until they are two years old. We supported this provision because theories based on research show that the critical period for development is between the age of six months and two to three years. So, these centres cannot be good for kids above two years, hence our support for that kind of provision.
Again, those facilities are not conducive to children who are above that age because, in our opinion, those kids are supposed to be either at crèches or starting to prepare to go to school.
There is another provision in the Bill that, to me, is a major shift from what used to happen. That is the matter of placement and release if sentenced offenders must be prepared for placements, release and re- integration into society. In this Bill, there is a programme that had to be there to prepare them for release, not just to be released simply because they had finished their sentence.
The arrangement, in my opinion, will serve many purposes. One of these is to make sure that when sentenced offenders are back in society, they become better people. Of course, there are many reasons that one can cite why there is this programme that will be in place to sentenced offenders before they are released.
This Bill creates space for proper co-ordination amongst the three role- players in the department, that is, the Head of Correctional Centres, the National Commissioner and the Inspecting Judge. I cannot elaborate further because my colleagues will touch on this when they come to this podium.
Let me talk about the labour done by offenders. There will now be a programme that will make sure that these offenders do some work while in these centres. Of course, we cannot have a situation where these offenders will just eat and sleep. They will have to do some work.
There will be a programme again for these offenders to do some exercises whilst they are in these facilities. This is aimed at assisting them to remain healthy, but whatever will be taking place will first be communicated to the offender. All these programmes are aimed at reskilling these offenders so that when they come out, as I said, they are better people. We fully agree with the hon Minister that these people cannot just sit there and be idle …
… ba e ja makwinya. [… eating fat cakes.]
They must do something.
One other shift is an improvement in the use of handcuffs or leg irons when these offenders are brought to court. You will recall that there were times when whatever the offence was, he or she had to be leg ironed or handcuffed. The shift I am talking about is that the use of handcuffs or leg-irons when these offenders are brought to court will now have to be properly facilitated and when that has been decided upon, it will be through the authorised decision of the courts. We agree that this must be done to dangerous criminals, as proposed by the Minister, but in the new provision, this can be done only when authorised by the courts. Imagine someone only serving one year or less being handcuffed, leg-ironed and with heavy escort when brought to court. This, to some of us, is just a waste of resources.
This can now only apply to sentenced offenders serving 24 months and above. Imagine a priest or an MP like hon Sogoni, such a wonderful man, being leg- ironed. That cannot be. He might have fallen but he is a very good citizen.
What I want to emphasise is the development of an incarceration framework. I want to urge the department to expedite it. We gave the department time to develop this framework within a given period. I think they can do it even before the time limit that we set. Thank you, hon Minister, for the co-operation we are getting from you personally, your Deputy Minister, your department and its officials. Last week the ``Mokoena Detachment’’ conducted oversight work in Mpumalanga. As usual, your officials did not disappoint. They were there from the first day for the whole week – from day one to day five. All of that was possible, because of you as the political head of this department. When the committee wants the Minister to come and brief it about anything, even during the engagement about this Bill, the Minister is there. He availed himself to find out whether there were questions that the members wanted to ask him. What more can we ask for? As we said: No matter how deep the bottle is, the cream will always be on top. That’s the hon Minister. For that, I want to thank you hon Minister on behalf of my “detachment”.
Modulasetulo, e re ke se ke ka hlwa kgorong ka gore go ja kudu ga se go bolaya tlala. [Chairperson, let me not elaborate any further because more details do not always represent the truth.]
Let me thank my colleagues for the co-operation they always give me as the chairperson. To the officials, the State Law Adviser and all officials of the department, thank you very much for your tireless efforts. If it were not for you, I don’t think we would have this final product being as good as it is.
I am leaving other things for my colleagues to iron out. I want to appeal to all parties to support this Bill because it is noble, humble and there is no politicking; it is just to assist our offenders. Thank you very much, Chairperson.
Mr N J MACK: House Chair, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, National Commissioner, members of the Department of Correctional Services, hon members, let me also thank our dedicated, wonderful, beautiful and dynamic chairperson of the select committee.
This Bill draws its strength from the Constitution. There was a need to amend the Correctional Services Act, Act No 111 of 1998, to be aligned with the 2005 White Paper on Correctional Services.
The philosophy behind this Bill is rehabilitation, community correction and rights-based notions. The Bill also carries political implications such as the developmental state’s role to regulate and administer corrections in a manner that is interventionist.
Such a developmental state should have the capacity to organise and use resources appropriately to ensure that effective rehabilitation occurs. It is noticeable that the Bill shifts from an emphasis on penal philosophy to one on corrections. The emphasis on rehabilitative philosophy is where the whole movement of prisoner reforms meets the human rights notion. This emphasis is evident and particular in the first part of the Bill dealing with the change in terminology. Part of the emphasis on rehabilitation converges with the ANC’s position on corrections.
The select committee made technical and terminological amendments to reformulate clause 56 which deals with the incarceration framework. The clause as it stands now provides discretion to the National Commissioner to determine the period of incarceration for the qualification of parole. The earlier formulation seems to have problems regarding interpretation. The Bill amends sections 74, 75 and 76 on correctional supervision and parole board powers, the function and the role of correctional supervision and parole boards. It impacts on correctional supervision and the parole review board.
The reasoning behind these sections is that the Bill seeks to promote community participation and that of victims in parole decisions and in accordance with rehabilitation. This is in line with section 83 of the principal Act whereby members of parliamentary committees serving on correctional boards can be part of the National Council on Corrections and recommend to the Minister early release decisions.
Powers to grant such early release are vested in the parole board and the National Council on Corrections. These decisions are taken in consultation with the Minister. The Bill appears to draw a distinction between parole roles, court functions and the Minister on the executive which has been the tradition in South Africa and in societies with the parole system. There is no contradiction in these roles and functions but there is a significant overlap. For example, courts adjudicate cases and take sentencing decisions. In the context of parole approaches, court powers are subjected to the powers of the parole board. In terms of this Bill, an early release is in the domain of the parole board and promotes legislation that places the powers in the correctional system rather than in an individual judge or Minister. In radical politics, power should be vested in the collective rather than in the individual. This reasoning resembles the decisions of the ANC.
This approach on parole seeks to promote greater independence and fairness. Otherwise, once it appears as if it is an individual Minister’s responsibilities, then allegations of biased practices and favouritism are bound to be made. Indeed, this approach seeks to promote community participation in rehabilitation and social reintegration of offenders. It seeks to promote a balanced parole system.
This is due to the fact that parole practices should consider the interests of the offender, the gravity of crime sentenced for, the victim and the community. It should consider resources available to effect community correction and social reintegration. In this regard members of the parole board should actively participate in anticrime structures such as community safety forums and community corrections. This is to promote our holistic approach against crime and to ensure that parolees are successfully reintegrated into society.
On the Office of the Inspecting Judge, I would like to see that the inspecting judge visits the correctional centres more often and that we have some or other way of seeing that it is done regularly. Clause 70 is centred on discretionary powers of the Office of the Inspecting Judge and the select committee had to insert the formulation in subsection 4 that ensures that the appointment of the CEO is regulated by the Public Service Act.
This seeks to permit the Office of the Inspecting Judge to recommend a person of his or her choice to the National Commissioner in accordance with the Public Service Act criteria. It appears that this reformulation of clause 70 should be in accordance with the meaning of subsection 1 as contemplated. Clauses 68 and 76 appear to streamline the function of the judicial inspector. The function of the inspecting judge has been redefined in line with the 2001 Heath Decision.
According to this decision the judge should perform judicial functions and not executive or administrative duties, but this appears not to be a general principle applicable in all circumstances. It must be noted that, broadly, the amendment did not go to the extent of the recommendations of the Jali Commission of Enquiry. It has also not curtailed all the powers and the functions of the Office of the Inspecting Judge. By and large it has upheld the principle Act in as far as the substantive role and functions of the judicial inspectorate to report and monitor needs, rights and conditions of incarceration are concerned.
But the work of the Office of the Inspecting Judge is not without the requirements of good accountability and the Constitution. They have to discharge good working relations with Parliament in line with their mandate. Most importantly, its function is to promote a correctional system that is accountable and fair to inmates and society in order to promote rehabilitation. It is important to note that correctional sentences and their conditions, from time to time, will need some kind of ombudsman to ensure checks and balances.
This is due to the fact that the needs and rights of inmates have to be adhered to. This Bill needs to be supported. I thank you.
Mr J W LE ROUX: Chairperson, from the DA’s side we would very much like to congratulate our brand new Whip and we wish her the best of luck for the year. [Applause.] I said “Whip”, and I actually meant the “Chief Whip”, Chair.
Voorsitter, Minister, Adjunkminister, kollegas, die meeste van ons of ons familielede het al deurgeloop onder geweldsmisdaad. In baie gevalle het die aanvalle gepaard gegaan met onbeskryflike brutaliteit. Dwarsdeur die land word mense besteel, aangerand, verkrag en vermoor en die publiek staan weerloos teen hierdie aanslag.
As ons dan hoor van vroeë vrylating en, in die algemeen, sagte behandeling van kriminele is dit geen wonder dat die publiek voel hul regte word vertrap nie. Minister, dis verblydend en ons sien u het ’n baie harde hand en ons dank u daarvoor. (Translation of Afrikaans paragraphs follows.)
[Chairperson, Minister, Deputy Minister, colleagues, many of us or our family members have been victims of violent crime. In many instances these attacks have been coupled with indescribable brutality. Countrywide people are being robbed, assaulted, raped and murdered and the public stands defenceless against this onslaught.
Then, when we hear about the early release and, in general, the soft treatment of criminals, it comes as no surprise that the public feels that their rights are being trampled upon. Minister, it is heartening to see that you have a very firm hand and we are grateful to you for that.]
The Bill in its original form was unacceptable to almost all committee members of the portfolio as well as the select committee. It is therefore welcomed that in the final Bill all contentious issues were dealt with in a balanced and efficient way. I must really thank the chairman for the way in which he handled his committee.
I have only three minutes, so I will only deal with a few issues of concern that were raised: Firstly, the task of determining the minimum portion of a sentence to be served before parole can be considered will be in the hands of the National Council on Corrections. The council is chaired by a judge and consists of two additional judges plus representatives of the magistracy, the police and Parliament.
Secondly, the Yengeni episode is a clear signal that there is a huge problem as far as the use of liquor by parolees is concerned, but also that there is a problem in as far as the policing of the actions is concerned. The provision in the Act relating to prohibiting parolees from drinking alcohol is retained in the Bill.
Thirdly, there was the issue of the independence of the Office of the Inspecting Judge. The issue here was the appointment of a CEO to support the judge. The committee was in agreement that the judge would decide whom he/she wants as a CEO and the commissioner must then appoint whomever the judge selected.
The Minister was quoted as saying that the Department of Correctional Services is one of the worst departments in the country. These are harsh words, but the admission was the first step in the right direction. For a start, the Minister must give serious attention to the following issues … [Time expired.] Thank you.
Mr M A MZIZI: Sihlalo angithathe leli thuba ngihalalisele udadewethu uNtwanambi ngesikhundla asinikiwe. Ngamagama nje asewashilo, kafushane ngingasho ukuthi uma ebhukula siyomlandela nathi. [Chairperson, let me take this opportunity to congratulate the hon Ntwanambi for the position she has been given. Following what she has just said, I can briefly say that when she swings, we will follow her.]
When you swing, we will follow through.
Chairperson, the Bill before the House seeks to amend the Correctional Services Act, 1998 in order to align correctional services legislation with the White Paper on Correctional Services. Among others, the Bill attempts to include the principles contained in the White Paper on the legislation. The IFP is satisfied that, for the most part, these objectives have been achieved. One of the main features of the Bill is to address offender behaviour by sentenced persons, taking into account the safety of inmates, officials and the public, while at the same time protecting inmates against arbitrary actions that are inconsistent with our Bill of Rights and the Constitution.
The IFP’s point of view is that the most important issue relating to corrections is to ensure successful reintegration of offenders into society by using appropriate intervention directed at both the inmates and relevant societal institutions. In this regard we feel that nongovernmental and community-based organisations can make a very important contribution to assist the reintegration of offenders by providing them with short-term practical assistance until they are fully ready to play a meaningful role in society.
The IFP, therefore, feels that preventing reoffending by releasing inmates should be the number one priority for rehabilitation and reintegration programmes. While we support the Bill, the IFP feels that the department could do more to educate juveniles serving long services to provide them with the education skills to become responsible citizens upon their release, rather than being a burden on society.
This investment in offender education is vital to rehabilitation. Reintegration goals are to be met and released persons given every opportunity to find jobs and make a new start in life.
Ngqongqoshe mhlawumbe uzokuzwa lokhu uma ngikubeka ngokuthi sesihambile kuzo zonke izindawana, i-Westville yiyo eyaphuma phambili lapho sathola khona ukuthi abantu abagcinwanga nje kuphela kodwa intsha iyafunda lapho. Sathola ukuthi sekukhona noMatikuletsheni. Okwaba kubi nje khona ukuthi othisha ngoba baqashwe nguMnyango, umvuzo wabo awulingani nomvuzo walaba abangaphandle kodwa mhlawumbe bebebenza umsebenzi okhaliphile kunalaba abangaphandle. Lokhu sikusho ngoba njengoba besilaphayana sithole ukuthi kunentsha eyinqwaba laphaya eMpumalanga ehleli engasebenzi isikhathi eside, uma iphuma, izophuma iye ngaphandle ingafundile. Izoqala kuphi, ngoba izoqala lapho igcine khona iye phambili, okungukuthi uma kade intshontsha isazoqhubeka intshontshe.
Kodwa-ke uma ngabe umqondo sewushintshile kungaba lula ukuthi lezo zingane zikwazi ukuthi uma ziphumela ngaphandle zifike sezinotho olungahle lwenze ukuthi ziqasheke. Phela ngisho nomuntu oshanelayo imbala kufanele akwazi ukubala ukuthi mingaki imishanelo ekhona. Intsha yethu ingumgogodla wakusasa. Ngakho-ke siyacela Ngqongqoshe ukuthi masibambisane kulokho. Asiye phambili [Ihlombe.]. (Translation of isiZulu paragraphs follows.)
[Hon Minister, maybe you will understand this if I put it this way; We visited all centres, and Westville Correctional Services Centre was the best because we discovered that people are not just kept there but the youth is also learning. We discovered that matriculation programmes have been introduced.
The bad thing we observed was that teachers are employed by the department, and their salaries are not the same as those of teachers working outside the prison sector and yet they are doing a better job than their counterparts. We say this because when we visited Mpumalanga, we discovered that there is a lot of youth there and they have been idling for a long time. When they get released, they will rejoin the community with no skills having been acquired while in prison. And what do they do after their release? They start where they left off and go forth, which simply means that if they were stealing, they go back to the life of stealing.
However, if their mind-sets have been changed, it will be easier for those young ex-offenders to do something which would make them employable when they are released, because even an ordinary floor sweeper must be able to count, so as to know how many brooms he has in store. Our youth is the backbone for the future. We therefore request co-operation in that regard, hon Minister. Let us go forward. [Applause.]]
Ms B L NTEMBE: Chairperson, I would like to take some of my time and congratulate our Madam Chief Whip. I know her well, as we have been working together in foreign affairs for some time. Welcome, hon Chief Whip.
The issue of correctional services in this country will always be debatable. Where we come from has partly caused some of us to be involuntary criminals. People have different levels of strengths and weaknesses. People also have different levels of intelligence, hence we cannot expect everyone to act or react the same under similar circumstances.
Oppression of the past has much to do with our overpopulated prisons. Mass upliftment of poverty and increased facilitation of education will in future reduce the number of incarcerated persons, but at this moment much still needs to be done. Working hours of the correctional officials are going to be increased from an eight-hour shift to a twelve-hour shift. The opposite happened in the SAPS. What is the difference?
These officials are presently earning overtime money. With the 12-hour shift they will not be able to do that. Their monthly income will decrease. This will increase the risk of corruption between the official and the gangster prisoner. We have to consider these issues. The issue of gangsterism in prisons still remains a “turksvy” [tricky matter] as well as the numbers of our youth in prison.
We cannot have a nation of convicts and keep on building more prisons. We, as a nation, need to search in-depth for the roots of our nation becoming a shackled nation and provide the cure. I thank you.
Mr W M DOUGLAS: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister, hon members and guests, I would also like to join my colleagues in congratulating the Chief Whip on her new appointment.
The lack of respect for human dignity, the need to reduce crime in South African prisons and the successful reintegration of offenders into the community are some of the reasons why it is important to take a look at the Correctional Services Act of 1998 and amend it.
The ACDP is in support of the Correctional Services Amendment Bill. One of the objectives of the Bill that we are in total support of is located in the name itself, “Correctional Services”, namely to correct the offender. However, we would like to reiterate that this correcting of the offender must not be taken lightly and needs to be carried out in a thorough manner. To that end I would like to thank the Minister for his hard line in the Kokstad Prison. It is a wonderful fresh breath to hear that hard line being taken. It is a very good line that we need to take. Obviously we would like to see it expanded to many other prisons.
Rehabilitation, as we all know it to be, is about bringing about positive behavioural change in offenders, meaning the attitude, disposition and behaviour of the individual are to be transformed in such a way that criminal activity is avoided in future. Thus, when offenders are released, they are not only welcomed back with open arms into the community they came from originally, but they bring about positive change in those communities. Consequently, offenders need to be rehabilitated successfully. The success of this rehabilitation process cannot do without the support of government and community-based organisations.
What we should remember and take to heart is that rehabilitation is not a once-off occasion, but an ongoing process that happens after the prisoner is released. This in essence must secure that offenders are successfully reintegrated into society. In addition, the argument regarding the success of rehabilitation has always been a cause for debate. On the one hand there are those who view correctional centres as places to rehabilitate inmates, and on the other hand there are those who believe that prisons effectively destroy people’s lives.
The ACDP recognises that overpopulated correctional centres are not contributing to proper rehabilitation and need to be addressed urgently. We also need to consider whether the current state of our facilities is not in fact a breeding ground for repeat offences after release. Nonetheless, we thank the hon Minister for all the financial contributions that would be made to build more prisons, but is it really what we need - more prisons?
Though the ACDP believes in upholding the rights of victims above those of the criminal, we also believe that inmates are not animals and should not live under the same conditions as animals. The fact that there are so many inmates awaiting-trial, crammed into small quarters for prolonged periods of time, contributes to the demoralisation of inmates and forces them to accept a life of servitude towards gangs in order to survive. We cannot expect to rehabilitate inmates if we allow gangs to operate freely in prisons.
In conclusion, to be successful in this endeavour sentencing must address prevention, then restitution, then retribution and rehabilitation. Thank you.
Mnr D J P VAN DER MERWE: Voorsitter, agb Minister, agb Adjunkminister en agb kollegas, dit is vir my ’n groot voorreg om in verskeie komitees te dien, en dat ek vandag my “maiden speech” [nooienstoespraak] kan lewer en sodoende die Noord-Kaap aan u bekend stel. Ek het maar gesê “maiden speech” [nooienstoespraak], want nooienstoespraak klink nie so mooi nie.
Die Noord-Kaap is ’n baie groot provinsie met ’n baie klein bevolking. Die bevolking bestaan uit verskillende bevolkingsgroepe met verskillende kulture en identiteite en dit maak dit ’n provinsie wat baie verskil van die ander provinsies. Die werkloosheidsyfer is baie hoog, plus-minus 38%, en die mense is arm, maar tog baie gasvry en vriendelik.
Weens die grootte van die provinsie, wat 29% van die totale grond van Suid- Afrika uitmaak, is dit ’n uitgestrekte gebied. Met die verskil in klimaat wat wissel van streek tot streek word daar ook verskillende boerderye bedryf. Die boerderybedrywe sluit die volgende in: bees-, skaap- en graanboerdery en druiwe- en wynboere. Die mynbedrywe, waaraan die provinsie ryk is, is van die grootste werkverskaffers en voed dus baie monde. Die myne ontgin die volgende minerale, naamlik: ystererts, mangaanerts, diamante, kalk en sement – wat ’n groot ekonomiese hulpbron vir die provinsie is.
Daar is baie besienswaardighede, soos die blomme in Namakwaland, wat asemrowend is wanneer die natuur saamspeel. Dit is iets wat elke Suid- Afrikaner behoort te sien wanneer dit blomtyd is. Dit is natuurlik ’n groot toeriste-aantrekking. Grotte met tekeninge word ook in verskeie dele van die provinsie aangetref, asook witsand of sogenaamde brulsand. Oorsese toeriste besoek die hoofstad van die Noord-Kaap, naamlik Kimberley, met sy Groot Gat en baie diamante en besienswaardighede.
Weens die uitgestrektheid van die provinsie en die yl bevolking is die toeriste se tyd baie beperk om oral besoek af te lê. Ten spyte van hierdie uitgestrektheid, lang afstande wat gery moet word, akkommodasieprobleme, ensovoorts, was daar ’n toename in toerisme die afgelope drie tot vier jaar in die provinsie. Baie dankie. “Thank you.” [Dankie.] “Ke a leboga.” [Dankie.] (Translation of Afrikaans speech follows.)
[Mr D J P VAN DER MERWE: Chairperson, hon Minister, hon Deputy Minister and hon colleagues, it is my great privilege to serve on several committees and to deliver my maiden speech today whilst introducing the Northern Cape to you. I said “maiden speech” because “nooienstoespraak” does not sound so good.
The Northern Cape is a very large province with a very small population. The population consists of various population groups with different cultures and identities, making it a province that differs greatly from the other provinces. The unemployment rate is very high, at about 38%, and even though the people are poor they are very hospitable and friendly.
Due to the size of the province, which comprises 29% of the total land of South Africa, it is a vast area. With the climate that varies from region to region, there are different farming activities as well. The farming activities include the following: cattle and sheep farming, grain farming, and grape and wine farmers. The province has many mining activities that serve as the principal providers of employment and thus feed many mouths. The following minerals are mined: iron ore, manganese ore, diamonds, lime, and cement – an important economic resource to the province.
There are plenty of sightseeing attractions, for example the flowers in Namaqualand which are breathtaking when nature plays its part. This is something every South African should see when the flowers are in bloom. So, naturally, it is a big tourist attraction. Cave drawings are also found in various parts of the province, as well as “witsand” and the so-called roaring sand or “brulsand”. Foreign tourists also visit the capital of the Northern Cape, Kimberley, with its Big Hole, diamonds and other sightseeing attractions.
Due to the vast expanse of the province and its sparse population, the time for tourists to visit all the relevant places is limited. Despite this vastness, long travelling distances, accommodation problems, and so forth, there has been an increase in tourism in the province over the last three to four years. Thank you very much.]
Mr S SHICEKA: Chairperson, the Minister, the Deputy Minister and my colleagues, allow me to add my small voice in congratulating my comrade, hon Ntwanambi, as the new Chief Whip. I promise that we will spare no effort in assisting her in her new duties. We want to ensure that she succeeds in carrying out her responsibilities.
The opposition, particularly Mr Le Roux, raised a point that we were soft on criminals, which is something that the ANC has never done when dealing with criminals.
However, we do realise the fact that these are South Africans. If they have committed an error, we must be able to ensure that we develop a programme of rehabilitating them because, we believe, that the practice of throwing away the keys is over. It can no longer be there in terms of dealing with the issues. Therefore, our view is that this matter is the matter that has been carried with responsibility because you can’t wish the convicts away. You may sentence them but there’ll come a time when they must come back and you have to deal with them.
Now, the responsibility that we have is to ensure that we change and correct the behaviour so that when they come back to society, they are people who would be able to live in families and in the communities that they are from. The issue that you are deliberately taking out of context - because you use it as a football in terms of dealing with it – is the issue of our comrade, Comrade Tony Yengeni. He was sentenced and accepted the sentence. He went to serve his term in prison and followed everything that had to be followed. We are not sure what you are questioning because we have leadership in the correctional services that would be able to deal with any misdemeanour, if there’s any.
Up to now, they have not told us that there’s any wrongdoing that has been committed by Comrade Tony Yengeni. We don’t know. Maybe you have some information that we don’t have. If you do, come and present it to us so that we are able to deal with the matter, but don’t continue to use this issue as a politicking one. The issue of correcting the behaviour of people who have erred in society is a serious matter. In that way, we believe that it is a matter that is in capable hands. Another thing is that you are casting aspersions on the police investigation into this matter. The matter is sub judice and is dealt with by the judiciary institutions and law enforcement agencies. I think if you respect our law enforcement agencies that are dealing with these matters, you will leave the matter there until the decision is taken on it. Mr Le Roux raised another issue around the appointment of the chief executive officer, CEO, in the Office of the Inspecting Judge. That is a matter that has been agreed upon - no, we accept. He is an honourable member like all of us. We are “honourables”. He is no exception on the matter.
The issue then of the Inspecting Judge is a matter that was discussed and agreed upon by the committee. I am not sure what he wants to achieve by raising it in this forum because he agreed with the proposal. The ANC was at the forefront of taking up the issue and it was agreed upon and I, therefore, am not sure what he wants or maybe he did not have facts when he was preparing his speech that he needed to present to this forum. Now, we are saying, colleague Le Roux, this is something you must deal with.
I want to raise another issue with my colleague from Gauteng, Mr Mzizi. Mr Mzizi, you see, this Ministry has been under the leadership of the IFP for many years. Comrade Ngconde Balfour is the first ANC Minister of the Department of Correctional Services. There is no trace of any footprint of the IFP of the good that it has done. There was chaos in that department before the Minister came in. When the Minister came in, the first thing he did was to ensure that the White Paper was developed for the first time in that department. That department has been guided by the policies coming from individuals without any policies that are followed by the country.
We, therefore, are saying, hon Mzizi, the ANC, as the revolutionary movement, came with the White Paper and today we see a culmination of its implementation because we are putting that process into law, where we are now saying to the Minister that we are giving him all the instruments to ensure that there must be a revolutionary change in correctional services. What we are expecting, amongst other things that I want to raise with you, Mr Minister, is to address the issue of ensuring that professionals are employed, particularly psychologists, as well as social workers.
These social workers will contribute in reducing the overcrowding of prisons because we have implemented sections 62(f), 63(a) and 276 subsection (a), which will make sure that people who do not deserve to be there are not there. At this point in time we are still experiencing problems but we understand that the payment regimes of these professionals are not adequate. Therefore, the Minister for the Public Service and Administration who is leading the process of changing payment regimes must ensure that these issues are catered for, so that these professionals are there and are deployed to those services. That is what we are expecting. The other task that we are expecting you to do, Minister, is to ensure that the safety committee forums are established, of course, working with your colleagues in Cabinet, so that these safety committee forums assist in reintegrating the offenders into society. When the offenders come out, they must be debriefed.
Kufanele batshelwe ukuthi manje sekushintshile lapha ekhaya – sekumi kanje. Njengabantu akade beboshiwe, kufanele baqonde ukuthi sebexolelwe futhi sebekhokhile ngesikhathi sabo ejele manje kufanele baphile ngale ndlela emphakathini.
Uma ufika kwezinye izindawo, akukho kwamuzi noma umndeni. Kuba kuhle uma efika kukhona izinhlaka ezizokwazi ukuthi zimemukele lo muntu ukuze abe yingxenye yomphakathi futhi akwazi ukubheka izinto azenzayo. Ngalawo magama sithi siwuKhongolose, Ngqongqoshe, sisemumva kwakho ngokuphelele. [Ihlombe.] (Translation of isiZulu paragraph follows.)
[They must be told that things have since changed in the outside world; they must know the current trends. As ex-offenders, they should be made to understand that they have been forgiven and they have paid their dues with the time they spent in prison and they should be made aware of the life which is led by in the community at that time.
When you follow some offenders’ personal details, you find that they neither have homes nor families. And it is usually good if an ex-offender comes back to a place where there are structures that are going to welcome him so that he can be reintegrated into the community and be able to be careful of the things he does. With those words Minister, we say, as the African National Congress, we fully support you. [Applause.]]
The MINISTER OF CORRECTIONAL SERVICES: Thank you, Chairperson, for the opportunity to listen to the members, and also for the good advice and input from members on the work we do. Sometimes the Deputy Minister, the commissioner and I lock ourselves up in an office to talk about some of these issues. They weigh quite heavily because we are dealing with people’s lives. We are dealing with people who have wronged society; people who have committed serious crimes. That’s the bottom line.
These people have to be categorised. There are those that you’d say to: This is too much! This one should just go away. We will see what to do with him. Then there is a category of people who are naturally remorseful and are trying their best to get back into the right ways of society. Then there’ll be the young ones, the juveniles and the children, which the Deputy Minister is seized with, to see to it that they do not remain in our centres. That’s how we categorise them. So, whenever we talk about them as offenders, please think about them in those categories, not as one bunch. Concerning the incarceration framework, I’m sure, as I stand here, the commissioner has taken that on board. We need that incarceration framework as quickly as possible so that it can be put into regulations and be gazetted, then things can move on quickly.
I want to thank the team that has continuously come down from Pretoria led by Advocate Malebye. She is not here today, but that has been quite a dedicated team that has worked so diligently to get us through this.
As members say, from the beginning, there were some areas where alignment was needed and we had robust debates about that. We managed to get to where we are now with all kinds of amendments that we have made. So, I’m very thankful to that team that has been coming down to the portfolio and select committees, doing its work, staying in Cape Town for weeks on end, trying to make this a reality.
The issue of community participation, Mr Sicelo Shiceka, goes together with that correctional services forum. The CSFs cannot work if all these departments including the police and Correctional Services are not supportive. If we release anybody the CSF has to know what’s going to happen to the person. That CSF also has the right to call in that parolee on probation and say, “This is what we expect of you. You’ve been paroled or are on probation and therefore we expect this kind of behaviour from you.” So that is very critical.
I want to quickly touch on the issue of parole boards. I’m very happy that we are seeing it the way we have looked at it. They’ve got to be independent and they’ve got to be very fair in dealing with people. Once you leave that to officials, a lot of unfairness might creep in. It is better to leave it to community members to deal with. Even with community members, we’ve got to be careful that it’s not your aunt’s son, for example, that you want paroled. So, we’ve got to keep that fairness as much as we can.
Another thing that worries me, however, is the important community participation of families but mostly it disappoints us. Families do not visit and those visits from families are critical. They’re very important. Don’t go there and say to the offender: We are keeping that BMW you stole. Go there and say: We have taken that car back to the police. You are now serving your sentence and when you are released, we don’t expect you to do the same things you were doing.
Lots of mothers do pay visits. The biggest problem sometimes is the reluctance of fathers to visit their children in prison for a number of reasons. Some are ashamed; some are angry and some don’t want to be seen near a prison. The fact of the matter is that he or she is still your child and you need to intervene and influence him or her. Even if it’s your brother, you’ve got to. So, I’m making that appeal. Let’s visit. We are not visiting because they are living in a hotel; we are visiting because we want to influence them and change their bad behaviour into good behaviour.
Kgoshi, you are quite correct; they cannot be in prison for ever and ever. They have to come out at some stage. Those that have gone for let’s say a life sentence - a life sentence in South Africa is 25 years - surely when they have served about 24 years, they can be considered. I think that is punishment enough. You cannot consider them before they are over the 22- year mark. Don’t even think about it! Think about it when they are close to 24 years. Have they changed? Are they looking forward to going out?
You are quite correct about the education in Mpumalanga. We need to push offenders to be educated. Most of them are learning. Some of them are cheeky. I tell them day in and day out when I visit prisons that if they think they can come here and be cheeky and not want to do anything, I’ll be the first one to deal with them. They should participate in programmes. They should participate in education. They can’t come here and waste the taxpayers’ money! They can’t do that! They were not invited here.
Niemand het jou hierheen genooi nie. [Nobody invited you here.]
You committed a crime! Nobody stood and said: Come and stay here! And, therefore, acknowledge that you’ve committed a crime. Acknowledge that you are going to do time and acknowledge that you’ve got to go out and be a straight-living person amongst your community. So, that is very important. We’ve spoken about that with the Inspecting Judge. There are independent prison visitors who visit people in prison, so I am quite happy with that situation.
We also need to look into the teachers’ salaries. Commissioner, you are the accounting officer, so anything that has to do with accounting I will throw your way, and anything that has to do with political authority comes my way and that of the Deputy Minister’s. Accounting is your baby.
One of the problems we also have is the delays with awaiting-trial detainees. These delays really upset me. The delays are sometimes caused by the court system, sometimes by the investigations. But, it is still wrong to have an awaiting-trial detainee staying for over six months or even four years without the case proceeding. It’s not right. Things must be done efficiently and effectively. Let them either be sentenced or free if there is no evidence against them. Make sure that at least you get them out of the system.
One of the resolutions of Polokwane is that we must ensure that our remand centres are really effective. I promise, as I stand here, the remand centre unit in my department is working frantically because I need a report daily. I need a report on this remand system.
With regard to the profession, Mr Shiceka, yes, we will. There is a lot of competition out there and you are right - the remuneration is not the same. Again, we’re throwing that at the commissioner and he has quite recently intervened on the nurses’ issue. He intervened and I was quite happy with the intervention, but we need to intervene in other professions to make our work much lighter than it is now.
In conclusion, I would like to thank members of the NCOP, the chairperson, Kgoshi, and his select team and also the portfolio committee, because the work that we all did, from the National Assembly to the National Council of Provinces, clearly indicates that you want us to succeed in the work that we do. We wouldn’t want to fail you. The Deputy Minister and I commit ourselves to making sure that we finish as strongly as possible, particularly with these amendments that are giving us more muscle to be able to do our work efficiently and effectively. Thank you. [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Order! I shall put the question in respect of the First Order. The question is that the Bill and the amendments be agreed to. In accordance with Rule 63 I shall first allow political parties the opportunity to make their declaration of vote if they so wish. Is there any political party? There is none. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. Those in favour will say “Aye”.
HON MEMBERS: Aye.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Those against will say “No”. All members voted in favour. I therefore declare the Bill, subject to proposed amendments, agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
Bill, subject to proposed amendments, agreed to in accordance with section 75 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICES - 1991 AMENDMENTS TO CONVENTION ON INTERNATIONAL MARITIME ORGANISATION (IMO), 1948
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON PUBLIC SERVICES - INTERNATIONAL CONVENTION ON CONTROL OF HARMFUL ANTI-FOULING SYSTEMS ON
SHIPS, 2001
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: Chairperson, firstly let me congratulate our new Chief Whip on her appointment and I assure her of the support from the Free State delegation. Secondly, let me try again and congratulate Graeme Smith and Neil McKenzie on their world-breaking partnership in Bangladesh. The purpose of the International Convention on the Control of Harmful Anti- Fouling Systems on Ships is to ensure that the parties to the convention take appropriate measures to prohibit and restrict the use of harmful and toxic anti-fouling systems on ships, which are not only harmful to human health but also to the ecology and the environment of our ports.
This is a proactive measure to ensure the protection of vulnerable ecosystems in our ports against the harmful effect of toxic compounds used by shipowners on hulls to control the growth of unwanted organisms on vessels. Any violation of the convention by shipowners could lead to the detention, dismissal and excluding of such vessels from our ports. Samsa, the South African Maritime Safety Authority, will be responsible for the enforcement and the implementation of this convention and new legislation will be required to give effect to this convention.
Regarding the ratification of the 1991 FAL, Convention on Facilitation of International Maritime Traffic, amendments to the Convention on the International Maritime Organisation of 1948, the IMO is a specialised agency of the United Nations consisting of an assembly, a council and five committees. Unlike the four of the five committees which are institutionalised by virtue of Article 11 of the IMO Convention, the facilitation committee, since its inception in May 1972, continues to function as a subsidiary body to the council. In November 1991 the assembly adopted a resolution to allow for the facilitation committee to be institutionalised and placed on the same level as the other four committees. South Africa is a member of the IMO council and taking account of the leadership role that we are playing in the council, the Select Committee on Public Services recommends that the Council, in terms of section 231 of the Constitution, approves and ratifies the International Convention on the Control of Harmful Anti-fouling Systems on Ships and the 1991 FAL amendments to the Convention on the International Maritime Organisation. I thank you.
Debate concluded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Hon members, that concludes the debate. I shall now put the question in respect of the Second Order. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I shall first ascertain whether all delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their province’s votes.
Are all delegation heads present? In accordance with Rule 71 I shall first allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall put the question in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against or abstain from voting. The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: Ondersteun. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Free State?
Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Supports.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: Yeyethu. [We support it.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: Siyaxhasa. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Re a e thekga. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Siyayivuma. [We support it.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Northern Cape?
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Ondersteun. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: In favour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Western Cape?
Mr N J MACK: Supports.
All provinces voted in favour and I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
I shall now put the question in respect of the Third Order. The question is that the report be adopted. As the decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution. I shall first ascertain if all the delegation heads are present in the Chamber to cast their province’s votes. Are all delegation heads present?
In accordance with Rule 71 I shall first allow provinces the opportunities to make their declarations of vote if they so wish. We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against or abstain from voting.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: In favour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Free State?
Dr F J VAN HEERDEN: Ondersteun. [We Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: Siyavuma. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: In favour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: Re a e thekga. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: In favour. The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Northern Cape?
Mr M A SULLIMAN: Ondersteun. [We Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: Ke ya rona. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Western Cape?
Mr N J MACK: Siyavuma. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): All provinces voted in favour and I therefore declare the report be adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
CONSIDERATION OF REPORT OF SELECT COMMITTEE ON FINANCE – COLLABORATIVE AFRICA BUDGET REFORM INITIATIVE AGREEMENT (Cabri)
Mr D J BOTHA: Chair, the Select Committee on Finance was fully briefed by Treasury about the Collaborative Africa Budget Reform Initiative or Cabri agreement in terms of section 231 of the Constitution. The select committee asks that the House supports it as it is tabled on the Order Paper. Ngiyabonga! Asante! Baie dankie! [Thank you!] [Applause.]
Debate concluded.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Order! I shall now put the question in respect of the Fourth Order. The question is that the report be adopted. As this decision is dealt with in terms of section 65 of the Constitution, I need to ascertain very clearly whether delegation heads are present in the Chamber.
I shall now also allow provinces the opportunity to make their declarations in terms of Rule 71 if they so wish. Is there any province wishing to make any declaration of vote? There is obviously none.
We shall now proceed to the voting on the question. I shall do this in alphabetical order per province. Delegation heads must please indicate to the Chair whether they vote in favour or against or abstain from voting. Eastern Cape?
Ms B N DLULANE: Siyayixhasa [We support it.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Free State?
Mr C J VAN ROOYEN: In favour. The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Gauteng?
Mr E M SOGONI: Elethu. [We support.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): KwaZulu-Natal?
Mr Z C NTULI: In favour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Limpopo?
Ms H F MATLANYANE: We support.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Mpumalanga?
Ms F NYANDA: Ha yi seketela. [We support it.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Northern Cape?
Mr C M GOEIEMAN: Ondersteun. [Supports.]
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): North West?
Mr Z S KOLWENI: In favour.
The HOUSE CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): Western Cape?
Mnr N J MACK: Die Wes Kaap odersteun. [Western Cape supports.] [Applause.]
The House CHAIRPERSON (Mrs M N Oliphant): All provinces voted in favour. I therefore declare the report adopted in terms of section 65 of the Constitution.
Report accordingly adopted in accordance with section 65 of the Constitution.
Hon members, before I adjourn the House, you are requested to remain behind for the briefing on the Taking Parliament to the People programme – that will be the committee of the House.
The Council adjourned at 16:56. ____
ANNOUNCEMENTS, TABLINGS AND COMMITTEE REPORTS
ANNOUNCEMENTS
National Council of Provinces
The Chairperson
- Message from National Assembly to National Council of Provinces in respect of Bill passed by Assembly and transmitted to Council
(1) Bill passed by National Assembly and transmitted for concurrence
on 5 March 2008:
(a) Standards Bill [B 46B - 2007] (National Assembly – sec 75)
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Economic
and Foreign Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
(b) National Regulator for Compulsory Specifications Bill [B
47B - 2007] (National Assembly – sec 75)
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Economic
and Foreign Affairs of the National Council of Provinces.
(c) Technology Innovation Agency Bill [B 49B - 2007] (National
Assembly – sec 75)
The Bill has been referred to the Select Committee on Education
and Recreation of the National Council of Provinces.
- Withdrawal of referral
Please Note: The referral of the Special Browse Mole Report to the
Select Committee on Security and Constitutional Affairs, published on
page 368 of the Announcements, Tablings and Committee Reports of 28
February 2008, is withdrawn. TABLINGS
National Assembly and National Council of Provinces
-
The Minister of Finance
a) Government Notice No 179 published in Government Gazette No 30779 dated 15 February 2008: Stopping and reallocation of conditional allocations, in terms of the Division of Revenue Act, 2007 (Act No 1 of 2007).
-
The Minister of Public Works
a) Strategic Plan of the Department of Public Works for 2008 to 2011.
National Council of Provinces
-
The Chairperson
a) Special report of the JSCI on the Special “Browse” Mole consolidated report in terms of section 6(2) of the Intelligence Services Oversight Act, 1994 (Act No 40 of 1994).
(b) Notice of Intervention in the Mbombela Local Municipality, in
terms of section 139(1)(b) of the Constitution, 1996.
Referred to the Select Committee on Local Government and Administration
for consideration and report.
(c) The President of the Republic submitted the following letter
dated 28 February 2008 to the Chairperson of the National Council
of Provinces informing Members of the Council of the extension of
the employment of the South African National Defence Force in
Burundi, for a service in fulfilment of the International
Obligations of the Republic of South Africa towards the African
Union:
EXTENSION OF EMPLOYMENT OF THE SOUTH AFRICAN NATIONAL DEFENCE FORCE
IN BURUNDI, FOR A SERVICE IN FULFILMENT OF THE INTERNATIONAL
OBLIGATIONS OF THE REPUBLIC OF SOUTH AFRICA TOWARDS THE AFRICAN
UNION
This serves to inform the National Council of Provinces that I have
authorised the extension of employment of the South African
National Defence Force (SANDF) personnel to Burundi, in fulfilment
of the international obligations of the Republic of South Africa
towards the African Union as part of the African Union Special Task
Force in Burundi. The South African National Defence Force
personnel are assisting in providing security to leaders and
combatants of the Palipehutu-FNL.
This employment was authorised in accordance with the provisions of
section 201(2)(c) of the Constitution of the Republic of South
Africa, 1996, read with section 93 of the Defence Act, 2002 (Act No
42 of 2002).
A total of 1100 members were employed to Burundi as from 20
December 2006 to 31 July 2007 to provide security to leaders and
combatants of the Palipehutu-FNL. The deployment was extended until
30 March 2008.
I will communicate this report to members of the National Assembly,
and wish to request that you bring the contents hereof to the
attention of the National Council of Provinces.
signed
TM Mbeki